| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 22:57: Another Study Claims Wuhan Seafood Market May Not Be Source of Covid-19 Outbreak - Caixin Global: Another Study Claims Wuhan Seafood Market May Not Be Source of Covid-19 Outbreak Caixin Global Don't buy China's story: The coronavirus may have leaked from a lab New York Post Author argues the coronavirus behind the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/HL0ubd | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | contingo, Austria revoked the train hold | 00:22 |
| LjL | passengers with a ticket to Italy for monday can get it refunded, but that's all | 00:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 23:21: Can someone please share one of Li Wenliang's final videos? The one where he criticizes the CCP and the video is cut off: As I recall, he was on his deathbed, had a mask for supplemental oxygen, and was tearfully upset at the entire situation. He began to criticize the Chinese government and his video was cut off. → https://is.gd/d7PP0G | 00:24 |
| contingo | I'm seeing people commenting along the lines of, this stopped being containable a long time ago, I'm sure it's freely circulating now, but then insisting more should be being done to contain it, like strict quarantine, but then saying they really don't want to be under quarantine | 00:25 |
| contingo | etc. | 00:26 |
| LjL | contingo, my understanding is that the "containment" measures aren't really intended to contain it (although authorities may not always say this), but to slow it so that the healthcare system has at least a chance not to be overwhelmed. like, we *know* it'll eventually infect pretty much everyone, but one thing is if it does it 2% of people at a time, another is if it does it all at once | 00:27 |
| LjL | a psychiatric ward in Korea has 99 cases out of 102 patients apparently :\ | 00:28 |
| LjL | some prison(s) in China are similar | 00:28 |
| contingo | right, OK | 00:28 |
| LjL | there's a big prison right inside of Milan's city center, btw | 00:28 |
| contingo | well then, in that light, news that supports the view that it is already freely circulating, that it is unprecedentedly infective both pre- and post-illness, that a larger unreported population exists that are largely asymptomatic and largely mild cases, to me has both a reassuring side and a scary side | 00:29 |
| contingo | reassuring in that the mortality rate would be much lower than reported, scary in that penetration will be much higher and total deaths will be much higher and systems more likely to be overwhelmed | 00:30 |
| contingo | I don't mean scary sorry | 00:30 |
| LjL | contingo, a lot about this thing has both a reassuring and a scary side to me... although it's sometimes easier to see the scary | 00:30 |
| LjL | yes you mean scary | 00:30 |
| contingo | challenging | 00:31 |
| LjL | you're just taking it back because you realized that'd scare me :P | 00:31 |
| contingo | lol | 00:31 |
| LjL | contingo, i feel like saying, i can't get much *more* scared than after hearing an authoritative figure say "we're at war" on public TV, but... well, realistically i'm probably not even scratching the top of how scared i can get | 00:32 |
| contingo | I'm just trying to be consistent with characterizing my own emotional responses | 00:32 |
| LjL | which is... scary | 00:33 |
| contingo | oh my days | 00:33 |
| LjL | contingo, well, the opposite of reassuring is not challenging | 00:33 |
| contingo | well we've been at war with drugs and with terrorism and with the "causes of crime" for a long time | 00:33 |
| LjL | true | 00:33 |
| LjL | terrorism was a bit scary at times, even if rationally i knew i was very unlikely to be hit | 00:34 |
| LjL | this time that doesn't hold true, and the enemy is invisible even to my €30 Amazon microscope | 00:34 |
| contingo | you can adjust to new levels of scared once it becomes a daily thing | 00:34 |
| LjL | contingo, unless i'm already close to my limits at baseline, due to anxiety disorder | 00:35 |
| contingo | I really want to dose you with etizolam and see what happens | 00:35 |
| contingo | etizolam addiction, probably | 00:36 |
| LjL | contingo, that's one of those cases when "there's always time to write my shrink" doesn't hold true when it turns out there's no longer time to do anything | 00:37 |
| LjL | contingo, anyway, the war thing was somewhat significant, because earlier today, i had told my mom about the preparedness things you (and Spec) thought should be obvious, and she was like "oh come on, your friends are crazy, it's not like we're at war" | 00:38 |
| LjL | so there is that | 00:38 |
| contingo | I'd ship you some but it's breaking too many laws | 00:38 |
| LjL | yeah, i'm sure there are dogs addicted to etizolam that the cops use | 00:38 |
| contingo | excuse me LjL's mom | 00:38 |
| LjL | also i don't really know how long international shipments will continue... USPS is no longer delivering to China for example | 00:39 |
| contingo | I'm a goddamn doctor | 00:39 |
| contingo | of mushrooms but that gives me a framework here | 00:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 23:37: Coronavirus: New presumptive coronavirus case in Toronto - Woman sent home from hospital to self isolate, tested positive with mild symptoms. Province states that “it is unlikely that [she] was infectious.” → https://is.gd/5kI9Un | 00:39 |
| contingo | LjL just pop onto the darkweb and order some from a domestic vendor | 00:39 |
| LjL | contingo, yes the problem might lie in the fact i also told her about the mushrooms | 00:40 |
| LjL | contingo, lol i barely know what the darkweb is really | 00:40 |
| contingo | my MSc thesis and attendant publication were on retroviral evolutionary genetics | 00:40 |
| LjL | i open the tor browser... just when i look up med names into google because i don't want google to track me | 00:41 |
| contingo | you can tell her that | 00:41 |
| contingo | then I switched to mushrooms | 00:41 |
| LjL | contingo, well i'm not going to relay these points to her at this stage because she forbade me to speak of the outbreak again until tomorrow | 00:41 |
| contingo | mushrooms are harder than viruses | 00:41 |
| LjL | contingo, viruses have tiny DNA, if i just had a look at one i'd probably crack the code, man, i've written C, with even sparklings of C++ | 00:42 |
| LjL | this one doesn't even have DNA | 00:42 |
| contingo | do you want me to order you some? I don't have the energy rn but I'll look into it tomorrow | 00:42 |
| LjL | only the ugly twin of DNA | 00:42 |
| LjL | what threat can it be | 00:42 |
| contingo | the code is indeed quite easy | 00:43 |
| LjL | contingo, nah look anything new i try could set me into panic even if it's technically something to prevent panic... has happened before, except this time calling 112 would be a very bad idea (worse than the other time anyway) | 00:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 23:42: Coronavirus: If mortality rate is calculated from confirmed cases, and real cases are likely a much higher number than confirmed cases, then doesn't it follow that mean real mortality rate is way lower than 3%? → https://is.gd/6FERyA | 00:45 |
| LjL | contingo, meanwhile for panic: doctor at milan's policlinico is the first confirmed case inside milan proper, and he's a dermatologist, and my sister was treated by dermatologists at policlinico... also, i'll see my shrink therapy person in a couple of days, and she works at the same hospital, counseling transplant recipients and oncologic patients | 00:45 |
| LjL | maybe i should accept her offer of a session over skype that she made months ago | 00:45 |
| contingo | some viruses just have three genes. A gene for the encapsulating protein, a gene for a protein that sticks out of the capsule and unlocks your cells, and a gene to help copying itself using your cells' copying apparatus | 00:46 |
| contingo | three genes | 00:46 |
| contingo | it's all so neat... neatly majestic, as Spec might say | 00:46 |
| LjL | i replied to that redditor above | 00:48 |
| contingo | mushrooms have a lot of genes | 00:48 |
| contingo | that's a good one for panicking about | 00:48 |
| LjL | contingo, we also have a lot of genes, and also a lot of cruft that's probably semi-dead viral DNA, yay | 00:49 |
| contingo | maybe we're precipitating all this somehow | 00:49 |
| contingo | like it really does feed on fear woooo | 00:49 |
| LjL | contingo, i don't know, i see a lot of reasonable "maybe"'s, and then days later, often when circumstances have changed, people repeat them as certainties | 00:49 |
| LjL | so i think it's okay to remind people that there's a lot of maybe all over everything | 00:50 |
| LjL | contingo, really i can be here worrying about where to get which type of masks all day, but meanwhile they've estimated early cases probably started as far back as 20 days ago... and it's people who deal with Milan. what are the chances one of us four here isn't harboring it already? and even if not, what are the chances some handwashing or a lousy mask will stop it? | 00:53 |
| LjL | i'm not turning from full interventionist to full fatalist | 00:53 |
| LjL | i still think we should be doing a little more, or at least be able to talk about what to do without yelling at one another | 00:53 |
| LjL | but chances are we'll eventually just have to ride this and hope it all goes okay | 00:53 |
| LjL | i'm starting to be more worried about isolation enforcement than the disease itself | 00:54 |
| LjL | like i hope i don't dream i'm taken away by force into a crowded makeshift hospital full of sick people tonight | 00:54 |
| contingo | LjL, of the about 8% portion of our genomes that is detectable as retrovirus sequence that has integrated into our genomes at some point in our evolutionary past, you get shades of "semi-dead" the more anciently it was integrated and become defective. Eventually it becomes indistinguishable from background sequence | 00:54 |
| LjL | contingo, information theory at its best? | 00:55 |
| contingo | at one time me and a guy called Aris Katzourakis, now Prof at Oxford, held the record for the most ancient characterized clade of human endogenous retroviruses | 00:56 |
| LjL | someone with that name would never become a respected person in italy | 00:56 |
| contingo | iirc it was so ancient that we estimated it would have infected the common ancestor of primates and rodents and we found homologous sequences in a bunch of primates and rodents to support this | 00:57 |
| LjL | contingo, well that's not very ancient, aren't rodents like smaller versions of us, and that's why they use them in the lab? | 00:57 |
| contingo | and statistically reasoned it wans't possible to find more anciently integrated viruses unless they'd been selectively maintained | 00:58 |
| LjL | also, you don't have an opinion on the origin of viruses, or more generally you get pissed if i talk about the origin of things, right? | 00:58 |
| contingo | it's quite ancient to still be detecting pseudogenes undergoing mutation by drift | 00:58 |
| LjL | contingo, has it become much easier to do that sort of research now with fast parallel processing of sequences? | 00:58 |
| contingo | yes | 00:59 |
| LjL | hmm, i just realized i haven't squatted on channel names related to this one on Matrix... probably late now | 01:00 |
| contingo | there are lots of different higher-level groups (clades) of viruses and other more or less independently-existing selfish genetic elements likely with different origins at different times | 01:00 |
| LjL | contingo, i've read a bit about selfish genes and various selective pressures and all that the other night but at some point i was just too confused to continue | 01:01 |
| contingo | the principles of genetics are simple. the details of genetics are tortuous | 01:03 |
| LjL | contingo, if complexity didn't arise from simple laws we wouldn't be there, or at least we wouldn't be there and finding some of those laws | 01:05 |
| LjL | oh lawd, #coronavirus:matrix.org is like half meme half meme-based preparedness | 01:05 |
| contingo | I know but at times the level of complexity is at a level that just seems designed to be ridiculously hard to keep track of for people taking exams | 01:07 |
| contingo | there's so many chat things | 01:11 |
| LjL | contingo, Matrix is kind of the only one that's comparable to IRC in a number of ways, though | 01:15 |
| LjL | others are proprietary protocols, or not geared towards "channels"-based communication | 01:16 |
| LjL | (although Matrix calls them rooms but that hardly matters) | 01:16 |
| contingo | well, I probably shouldn't explore it | 01:20 |
| contingo | I have a big deadline in one week's time | 01:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 00:20: China_Flu: Reddit is lagging? → https://is.gd/MUmpvB | 01:21 |
| contingo | my internet chatting is at capacity | 01:22 |
| contingo | nevertheless LjL, would you please share some preparedness memes | 01:23 |
| LjL | contingo, nah, i've just closed the Matrix client, i really just quickly saw what the room was like and didn't dwell on it much, i don't need a place full of people playing half-make-you-scared-half-make-fun-of-you | 01:25 |
| contingo | things are looking up for my silver listings | 01:25 |
| LjL | contingo, should i sell my bitcoins or expect them to look up | 01:28 |
| LjL | they've hovered around 9k for a while | 01:28 |
| contingo | hold! | 01:31 |
| contingo | or if you're in clear profit start selling bit by bit | 01:34 |
| contingo | bitcent by bitcent | 01:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 00:47: CoronaVirusInfo: Coronavirus: Wuhan to quarantine all cured patients for 14 days after some test positive again → https://is.gd/I78uo2 | 01:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 00:50: Novel Coronavirus Infection Map: My friend sent this to me. It is by far the best map of the spread of coronavirus I've seen. Has dates associated with each country. → https://is.gd/aAWPpa | 01:53 |
| LjL | https://i.imgur.com/NSPYeTa.png (old news/data, just didn't see them as a graph before) | 02:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 01:29: Why are states allowed to override what the CDC wants to do?: I am all for states rights but we can’t just all go around rejecting patients what kind of sense does that make? Also these patients are in quarantine there not going to McDonald’s or some shit → https://is.gd/66PeZD | 02:29 |
| contingo | I keep almost commenting on reddit | 02:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 01:39: Will looters be a genuine concern?: Should a mass quarantine happen in USA (and hell, even if it shouldn't) Am I going to need to worry about madmen coming to my home and killing me for whatever stuff I may have? If so then I'm honestly more scared of that than the virus. → https://is.gd/a5T4Gj | 02:40 |
| LjL | contingo, don't do it | 02:44 |
| LjL | i sense that my rss feed needs finetuning | 02:45 |
| contingo | I shouldn't do it as contingo | 02:45 |
| contingo | contingo is just positive vibes and nature photography | 02:45 |
| LjL | you'll just get short tempered | 02:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 01:56: Another Study Claims Wuhan Seafood Market May Not Be Source of Covid-19 Outbreak - Caixin Global: Another Study Claims Wuhan Seafood Market May Not Be Source of Covid-19 Outbreak Caixin Global New study further proves Wuhan seafood market not the source of COVID-19 CGTN Coronavirus: China scientists say virus did not [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/HL0ubd | 03:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 02:20: Good news: So to spread some cheer, the likelihood of catching this right now is like 80,000/8 billion. → https://is.gd/Ra3n0M | 03:22 |
| LjL | pretty sure that's not the likelihood | 03:22 |
| contingo | oops | 03:22 |
| contingo | yes | 03:23 |
| contingo | you correct him, LjL | 03:23 |
| LjL | No I sleep | 03:24 |
| contingo | my powers of correction are spent | 03:24 |
| LjL | Dang | 03:24 |
| contingo | OK I will man the fort | 03:24 |
| contingo | and promulgate our ##truth | 03:25 |
| LjL | Okay I denied his claim without offering an alternative | 03:26 |
| LjL | Let's settle for that | 03:26 |
| LjL | contingo: if weirdos join, it may be because someone spammed my ##alerts with their own Matrix room about this so I contested that I already have my own thankyouverymuchly | 03:27 |
| contingo | well done | 03:27 |
| contingo | I strangely ended up ranting about the evils of Singapore | 03:28 |
| contingo | that wasn't the plan at all | 03:28 |
| LjL | contingo: but it's a good plan, drive everyone away from Singapore so you can use it as your reassuringly authoritarian hideout | 03:30 |
| LjL | contingo: I'm listening to https://lyricstranslate.com/en/la-morte-death.html#songtranslation to cheer me up | 03:30 |
| LjL | On my walkman | 03:30 |
| contingo | yes that's a good rationale | 03:31 |
| contingo | when I looked for my DACs / DATs | 03:31 |
| contingo | I found my stash of normal cassettes from the late 80s too | 03:31 |
| LjL | So now you'll be driving my tape decks auctions way up, damn | 03:32 |
| LjL | And by mine I mean the ones i want to win | 03:32 |
| contingo | I don't think I'm ready for that level of sheer nostalgia and what-did-I-do-with-my-life feelings yet | 03:33 |
| LjL | Though perhaps it's not the best of times to be ordering stuff from abroad | 03:33 |
| contingo | they're mostly not music cassettes, they're recordings I made of our family life | 03:33 |
| LjL | And you'll let them demagnetize without moving them to a more tenable format? | 03:34 |
| contingo | possibly | 03:35 |
| contingo | I don't view their existence as necessarily positive | 03:35 |
| LjL | I did it, the thing I was scared of doing with my walkman | 03:36 |
| LjL | Mistakenly and suddenly turning the volume knob way up | 03:36 |
| contingo | except for the tape labelled "Green Blood: mostly songs about Green Blood" | 03:36 |
| LjL | This thing drives headphones scarily loud | 03:36 |
| LjL | That sounds like a tape Autoclesis would want to know about | 03:37 |
| contingo | yes | 03:44 |
| contingo | yes, I'll put that one into an argon chamber | 03:47 |
| contingo | so far, ##truth is just cannabis spambots and "that's what your mom said" level discourse | 03:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 04:35: (news): Drones. Disinfecting robots. Supercomputers. The coronavirus outbreak is a test for China's tech industry - CNN → https://is.gd/ydssrY | 06:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 05:54: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English Coronavirus infections surge in Italy, South Korea as virus kills at least 8 in Iran Fox News More than 600 people infected by coronavirus in South Korea CBS Evening News [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/hUwsAt | 07:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 07:07: (news): Coronavirus: Xi ammette 'evidenti carenze' nella lotta al virus - Agenzia ANSA → https://is.gd/XReTyS | 08:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 07:13: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English Coronavirus infections surge in Italy, South Korea as virus kills at least 8 in Iran Fox News More than 600 people infected by coronavirus in South Korea CBS Evening News South [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/hUwsAt | 08:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 07:45: (news): Coronavirus: Cina, altri 150 morti e 409 nuovi casi - Agenzia ANSA → https://is.gd/XReTyS | 09:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 08:05: (news): Stranded lobsters and missing wedding dresses: The coronavirus is a daily reminder of China's global reach - CNN → https://is.gd/c2VrzW | 09:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 08:17: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English More than 600 people infected by coronavirus in South Korea CBS Evening News Coronavirus infections surge in Italy, South Korea as virus kills at least 8 in Iran Fox News [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/hUwsAt | 09:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 08:23: (news): Coronavirus, quarto morto, è un 84enne di Bergamo. - la Repubblica → https://is.gd/wyN48c | 09:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 08:42: (news): Coronavirus: Cina, altri 150 morti e 409 nuovi casi - Agenzia ANSA → https://is.gd/XReTyS | 10:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 09:00: (news): Coronavirus in Italia, le ultime notizie: quarta vittima a Bergamo, aveva 84 anni - Corriere della Sera → https://is.gd/JsQ2wD | 10:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 09:11: (news): Coronavirus, 152 contagiati e 4 vittime in Italia. Stop a scuole e università al nord. Austria revoca blocco dei treni - Il Sole 24 ORE → https://is.gd/uOgsE1 | 10:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 09:22: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English Coronavirus infections surge in Italy, South Korea as virus kills at least 8 in Iran Fox News Fears of coronavirus pandemic growing as cases rise in South Korea ABC News Virus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/hUwsAt | 10:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 10:28: (news): Coronavirus, quarto morto in Italia, il terzo in Lombardia: un uomo di 84 anni, era ricoverato a Bergamo - Salute & Benessere - Agenzia ANSA → https://is.gd/dimYfP | 11:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 11:03: (news): Coronavirus in Italia, le ultime notizie: un morto a Bergamo, aveva 84 anni - Corriere della Sera → https://is.gd/JsQ2wD | 12:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 11:16: (news): Coronavirus, quinta vittima in Italia, il quarto in Lombardia - Salute & Benessere - Agenzia ANSA → https://is.gd/dimYfP | 12:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 11:28: Coronavirus: Iran disputes death toll in city of Qom – live updates - The Guardian: Coronavirus: Iran disputes death toll in city of Qom – live updates The Guardian Coronavirus infections surge in Italy, South Korea as virus kills at least 8 in Iran Fox News More than 600 people infected by coronavirus in South Korea [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CW3lsh | 12:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 11:43: (news): La mappa del contagio del coronavirus - AGI - Agenzia Italia → https://is.gd/CmZj7h | 12:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 11:56: Coronavirus: Iran disputes death toll in city of Qom – live updates - The Guardian: Coronavirus: Iran disputes death toll in city of Qom – live updates The Guardian Coronavirus infections surge in Italy, South Korea as virus kills at least 8 in Iran Fox News More than 600 people infected by coronavirus in South Korea [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CW3lsh | 13:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 12:33: (news): Coronavirus in Italia, le ultime notizie: vittime e contagi, tutti gli aggiornamenti - Corriere della Sera → https://is.gd/JsQ2wD | 13:47 |
| theglass | uhm | 13:51 |
| theglass | hi contingo | 13:51 |
| contingo | hi | 13:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 12:48: (news): Coronavirus, Juventus-Inter si potrebbe giocare a porte chiuse. Lega Pro, rinviate 35 gare - Sky Sport → https://is.gd/lfP0JK | 13:57 |
| LjL | Omg, fallout on football matches. It's definitely the apocalypse. | 13:59 |
| theglass | hi LjL | 14:07 |
| theglass | fallout on what? | 14:07 |
| LjL | Hi | 14:07 |
| theglass | ah | 14:07 |
| LjL | Err I didn't mean fallout, my phone aitocompleted something else | 14:07 |
| LjL | But I forgot what I meant :p | 14:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 13:00: (news): Coronavirus, quinta vittima in Italia, il quarto in Lombardia - Salute & Benessere - Agenzia ANSA → https://is.gd/dimYfP | 14:07 |
| theglass | didn't see the news | 14:07 |
| theglass | on the match, you were commenting | 14:08 |
| LjL | Maybe I did mean fallout | 14:08 |
| LjL | Fallout can mean like consequences | 14:08 |
| LjL | But my memory is extra short | 14:08 |
| theglass | aftermath | 14:10 |
| theglass | but also fallout | 14:11 |
| LjL | Aftermath is more when the thing has concluded and you assess the damage | 14:14 |
| LjL | Fallout is the direct and indirect consequences, I believe it's from nuclear fallout, now used more generally | 14:14 |
| theglass | le ricadute | 14:17 |
| LjL | Ah yeah that seems like an apt teanslation | 14:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 13:11: (news): Coronavirus, Juventus-Inter si potrebbe giocare a porte chiuse. Lega Pro, rinviate 35 gare - Sky Sport → https://is.gd/lfP0JK | 14:18 |
| LjL | I'm better at knowing what words mean than at translating them back and forth ;) | 14:18 |
| theglass | there's often an hidden correspondence between words in different languages | 14:19 |
| LjL | But people are often too lazy to find an appropriate replacement | 14:20 |
| LjL | So on TV they've been talking about "lockdown" without even trying to translate it | 14:20 |
| LjL | I'm not a language purist, and I use English almost more than I use Italian, but some anglicisms seem really gratuitous and could easily be avoided except they are "cool" | 14:21 |
| LjL | Especially in Milan | 14:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 13:11: Coronavirus: Iran disputes death toll in city of Qom – live updates - The Guardian: Coronavirus: Iran disputes death toll in city of Qom – live updates The Guardian More than 600 people infected by coronavirus in South Korea CBS Evening News Coronavirus pushes beyond Asia, taking aim at Europe and Mideast; financial [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CW3lsh | 14:28 |
| contingo | it's the same with little snippets of English I hear in languages all over the world | 14:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 13:45: (news): Stranded lobsters and missing wedding dresses: The coronavirus is a daily reminder of China's global reach - CNN → https://is.gd/c2VrzW | 14:59 |
| LjL | contingo, what is? | 14:59 |
| LjL | oh | 14:59 |
| LjL | contingo, yeah there are languages where it's even much more pervasive | 14:59 |
| LjL | but it's all a matter of 1) degree 2) what you're actually using it for | 14:59 |
| LjL | i have nothing against using english words in technical fields and/or where there just aren't appropriate italian words to use instead | 15:00 |
| LjL | but sometimes it's just laziness and/or feeling "cool" and/or feeling "superior" to the people who don't understand those words | 15:00 |
| LjL | i've heard some people in the fashion industry or the disruptive startup business basically speaking "italian" where only the grammatical particles are italian, the nouns and stuff are english | 15:00 |
| contingo | my family and their wider social circle in Malaysia and Singapore just rapidly alternate between Cantonese and English and Malay in informal conversation | 15:01 |
| LjL | contingo, yes, that's code switching, it's normal in multilingual communities... but italy's not like that | 15:01 |
| LjL | %wik code switching | 15:01 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: In linguistics, code-switching or language alternation occurs when a speaker alternates between two or more languages, or language varieties, in the context of a single conversation. Multilinguals, speakers of more than one language, sometimes use elements of multiple languages when conversing with each [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching | 15:02 |
| LjL | contingo, people who code switch are generally able to stick to one language if the register requires it | 15:02 |
| contingo | they are | 15:02 |
| contingo | with my previous statement about "little snippets" I wasn't thinking of my family | 15:03 |
| LjL | i think india is the first place i heard "hardcore" code switching from | 15:03 |
| LjL | although i witnessed an amusing conversation during high school, one time i went to the house of an originally chinese schoolmate | 15:03 |
| LjL | she spoke italian fine, but there was also her cousin there, who i assume was less comfortable with italian | 15:03 |
| LjL | they had a long conversation where my schoolmate would speak all italian, and her cousin would speak all chinese | 15:04 |
| theglass | technically it would be possible to communicate by speaking two different languages | 15:05 |
| LjL | well they were communicating fine, so it seemed quite possible | 15:06 |
| theglass | I speak mine, you speak yours and magically we mutually understand each other | 15:06 |
| LjL | i just didn't understand half of the communication, but evidently they did | 15:06 |
| LjL | theglass, that's true of things like italian and spanish, but not italian and chinese | 15:06 |
| LjL | (and even with italian and spanish, it takes some helpful adapting from both speakers) | 15:06 |
| theglass | but it require a level of empathy and listening which nowadays I don't think can be found | 15:06 |
| theglass | uhm | 15:06 |
| LjL | during the catalonia crisis i had no issue at all understanding TV3... catalan has features of northern italian languages, which i speak only barely but can understand to some extent... and it makes a *huge* difference whether i'm listening to people on TV, or random people in the street who speak without a "TV accent" | 15:07 |
| LjL | also even on TV it makes a lot of difference whether it's the news, or say a thriller series where everyone is using slang and speaking fast and over one another | 15:08 |
| theglass | uhm | 15:09 |
| LjL | when i was actually in Valencia (though most people spoke Spanish there, not Valencian/Catalan) i could make myself understood, and understand others, but it'd take multiple attempts, it wasn't straightforward. that was many years ago though | 15:09 |
| theglass | Valencia is quite cozy for Italians | 15:12 |
| theglass | It's a recurring destination | 15:12 |
| LjL | it got popular after there was some regata there, i went there in those years, a long time ago | 15:17 |
| LjL | it seemed nice | 15:17 |
| LjL | big metro system built in just a few years and very clean... the city itself had some strange combination of very large streets with underpasses for cars that just came up again out of nowhere, and very tiny streets, often in front of churches and such, which didn't make those buildings stand out like in many squares in italy | 15:18 |
| LjL | also they had recently completed rerouting of the river that used to cross the city, and it had become a "long park" instead, which was nice to walk and cycle in | 15:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 13:45: (news): Coronavirus, sei vittime, 229 contagi. Sette regioni coinvolte, 27 milioni di italiani - la Repubblica → https://is.gd/wyN48c | 15:19 |
| LjL | i hope it's not basically a dumpster now. it would be if it were italy | 15:19 |
| LjL | contingo, btw, in "my parents not getting it"... i asked my dad whether our cars are loaded up fully with petrol, and he snapped "oh come on, it's not the gulf war" (actually he said something different that took me a few minutes to understand, but that was the gist) | 15:22 |
| LjL | in Wuhan, gas stations closing down was one of the first thing that was reported, so, i dunno what the middle east really has to do with it | 15:22 |
| contingo | it sounds like they've already committed to staying put | 15:23 |
| theglass | I have relatives in Valencia | 15:25 |
| LjL | contingo, staying put as in... behaving like nothing's happening? | 15:26 |
| theglass | more like "don't move and stay put" | 15:27 |
| theglass | I think | 15:27 |
| LjL | theglass, well that ship has kinda sailed considering they've visisted a ton of supermarkets, and the pharmacy, between yesterday and today. i expect them to see our GP later, despite me saying that's statistically one of the riskiest places | 15:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 14:34: Coronavirus: seventh person dies in Italy amid confusion over death toll in Iran – live updates - The Guardian: Coronavirus: seventh person dies in Italy amid confusion over death toll in Iran – live updates The Guardian More than 600 people infected by coronavirus in South Korea CBS Evening News Coronavirus pushes [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CW3lsh | 15:40 |
| LjL | seventh :( | 15:40 |
| LjL | what's the percentage now? | 15:40 |
| theglass | GP? | 15:42 |
| theglass | doctor? | 15:42 |
| LjL | theglass, general practitioner, il medico di famiglia | 15:42 |
| theglass | uhm yeah | 15:42 |
| theglass | I'm waiting for a tutorial to begin, here on IRC | 15:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 14:37: (news): Coronavirus, sei vittime, 229 contagi. Sette regioni coinvolte, 27 milioni di italiani - la Repubblica → https://is.gd/wyN48c | 15:50 |
| theglass | but the guy's not responding to my email | 15:50 |
| theglass | I mean to my message, where I was sending my email to him | 15:51 |
| theglass | for registration | 15:51 |
| theglass | seems disappeared | 15:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 14:37: (news): Borsa, Milano in forte calo per il coronavirus. Petrolio giù, oro ai massimi - Corriere della Sera → https://is.gd/v0wMlH | 16:00 |
| LjL | ma un bel chissenefrega | 16:01 |
| LjL | contingo, recoveries in China seem to be tapering down from the graphs... i think that's not great news | 16:03 |
| LjL | they were previously increasing quadratically or so | 16:03 |
| theglass | ? | 16:05 |
| LjL | the graph that used to be here https://www.coronatracker.com/analytics/ isn't displaying anymore for me | 16:05 |
| theglass | <LjL> ma un bel chissenefrega | 16:06 |
| theglass | ? | 16:06 |
| LjL | theglass, chissenefrega della borsa e del petrolio | 16:06 |
| LjL | son stufo del mercato che è più importante di tutto | 16:06 |
| theglass | ah ok | 16:06 |
| theglass | ma se non sale il mercato salgono i bitcoin, quindi.. | 16:07 |
| contingo | i seem to have lost track of my textfile of the links I found most dependable and useful | 16:08 |
| LjL | contingo, please contribute it if you find it again... | 16:08 |
| LjL | i did add the tracker you found to the paste | 16:08 |
| contingo | that was not working for awhile | 16:08 |
| LjL | i assume the trackers will come and go depending on traffic | 16:10 |
| LjL | the JHU tracker seems to be depended upon by all Italian media | 16:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 15:03: (news): Coronavirus in Italia: le news di oggi e le ricadute sullo sport - Sky Sport → https://is.gd/lfP0JK | 16:10 |
| LjL | theglass, there are purported Red Cross volunteers going door to door for screening, it's a scam. probably only in the north, but just saying | 16:14 |
| theglass | no I heard it, btw | 16:21 |
| theglass | jackals pops out almost everytime there's an emergency | 16:22 |
| LjL | especially in this country | 16:22 |
| LjL | aside from Repubblica, https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/24/coronavirus-live-updates-china-wuhan-hubei-latest-news-italy-lombardy-south-korea-iran-japan-cases-infections-death-toll-outbreak-xi-jinping-update also has live updates on this | 16:23 |
| LjL | and just like Repubblica, they don't provide an RSS feed of it ;( | 16:23 |
| LjL | oh wait they do | 16:24 |
| theglass | aside from the fact that the victim are 6, not 7 | 16:27 |
| theglass | victims | 16:27 |
| LjL | theglass, i believe one was reported as a victim first but then they were cleared as having died from something else | 16:29 |
| LjL | contingo, did already i show you this https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051966/coronavirus-wuhan-quarantine-all-cured-patients-14-days-after | 16:29 |
| LjL | also the milan policlinico doctor who was supposedly positive has turned out negative instead | 16:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:34: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus: seventh person dies in Italy amid confusion over death toll in Iran – live updates — from The Guardian at 15:34: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/8ncy1e | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:50: Business: Wall Street plummets as coronavirus spreads in Europe – business live — from The Guardian at 15:50: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/7jXXt9 | 16:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:59: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus: seventh person dies in Italy amid confusion over death toll in Iran – live updates — from The Guardian at 15:59: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/8ncy1e | 17:09 |
| LjL | Terremoto in Calabria, 4.7, avvertito forte a Cosenza | 17:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 16:08: (news): Coronavirus in Italia: le news di oggi e le ricadute sullo sport - Sky Sport — from The Guardian at 16:08: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/lfP0JK | 17:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 16:25: Coronavirus: seventh person dies in Italy amid confusion over death toll in Iran – live updates - The Guardian: Coronavirus: seventh person dies in Italy amid confusion over death toll in Iran – live updates The Guardian Global outbreak causes coronavirus pandemic fears after cases jump in Italy, South Korea and Iran [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CW3lsh | 17:30 |
| LjL | contingo, my dad went down to the pharmacy because we had ordered a few things... they said they received nothing today and it's all a mess and there's a queue outside of the pharmacy (for buying things that aren't there, i assume) | 17:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 16:41: (news): Borsa, Milano in forte calo per il coronavirus. Petrolio giù, oro ai massimi - Corriere della Sera — from The Guardian at 16:41: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/v0wMlH | 17:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:54: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus: sixth person dies in Italy amid confusion over death toll in Iran – live updates — from The Guardian at 16:54: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/8ncy1e | 18:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 17:22: (news): Coronavirus: sesta vittima in Italia, morto 80enne a Milano. Oms: 'Molto preoccupati per i casi in Italia' - Salute & Benessere - Agenzia ANSA — from The Guardian at 17:22: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/dimYfP | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 17:38: (news): La mappa del contagio del coronavirus - AGI - Agenzia Italia — from The Guardian at 17:38: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/CmZj7h | 18:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 17:38: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus: sixth person dies in Italy amid confusion over death toll in Iran – live updates — from The Guardian at 17:38: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/8ncy1e | 18:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 17:52: Coronavirus outbreak: Italians struggle with 'surreal' lockdown as coronavirus cases rise — from The Guardian at 17:52: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/NEVApu | 19:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 18:43: /u/BlatantConservative: 18 new cases in the United States, all repatriated quarantined former passengers of the Diamond Princess cruise ship — from The Guardian at 18:43: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/w8CWl3 | 19:44 |
| contingo | LjL yes you showed me that link | 19:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 18:55: Coronavirus: WHO plays down pandemic fears after sixth person dies in Italy – live updates - The Guardian: Coronavirus: WHO plays down pandemic fears after sixth person dies in Italy – live updates The Guardian Coronavirus may be 'Disease X,' World Health Organization expert warns New York Post Wuhan reverses [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CW3lsh | 20:04 |
| LjL | Google News is a bit confusing, i'd probably rather get individual RSS feeds, i have for some papers but others make it hard or impossible to reach them... | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:55: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus: WHO plays down pandemic fears after sixth person dies in Italy – live updates — from The Guardian at 18:55: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/8ncy1e | 20:15 |
| contingo | there is no evidence for reinfection afaik | 20:16 |
| contingo | just indications of prolonged phases of infectivity pre- and post- symptoms or without symptoms | 20:17 |
| LjL | contingo, the SCMP is an HK based newspaper, recently bought by Alibaba so mostly under mainland control now... but so far i've found their articles decent | 20:17 |
| LjL | contingo, which is quite annoyingly worrying in and of itself :\ | 20:17 |
| LjL | in italy they're talking about extending the quarantine from 14 to 21 days | 20:17 |
| contingo | it could well be the central control problem with this thing | 20:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana at 19:26: DELIBERA DEL CONSIGLIO DEI MINISTRI 13 febbraio 2020: Proroga dello stato di emergenza in conseguenza dell'eccezionalemovimento franoso verificatosi il giorno 29 gennaio 2019 nelterritorio del Comune di Pomarico, in Provincia di Matera. (20A01200) [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CPNFQG | 20:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:29: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus: WHO plays down pandemic fears after sixth person dies in Italy – live updates — from The Guardian at 19:29: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/8ncy1e | 20:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 19:52: /u/BlatantConservative: 5 new cases and one new death in Italy, making 233 cases and 8 deaths. — from The Guardian at 19:52: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/wflX58 | 20:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 20:02: (news): Coronavirus: WHO plays down pandemic fears after sixth person dies in Italy – live updates - The Guardian — from The Guardian at 20:02: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/CW3lsh | 21:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:11: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus: WHO plays down pandemic fears after sixth person dies in Italy – live updates — from The Guardian at 20:11: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/8ncy1e | 21:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 20:44: (news): Coronavirus in Italia: le news di oggi e le ricadute sullo sport - Sky Sport — from The Guardian at 20:44: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/lfP0JK | 21:47 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews at 16:47: worldnews: China bans human consumption and trade of wild animals → https://is.gd/IkH604 | 21:56 |
| LjL | maybe i should add a top worldnews feed | 21:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 21:04: /u/BlatantConservative: 14 new cases in Iran — from The Guardian at 21:04: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/RqB1lM | 22:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 21:13: (news): Coronavirus in Italia: le news di oggi e le ricadute sullo sport - Sky Sport — from The Guardian at 21:13: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/lfP0JK | 22:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 21:26: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Reported cases spike as Europe struggles with its first major outbreak - CBS News — from The Guardian at 21:26: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/NiBGnE | 22:29 |
| LjL | "Europe" | 22:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 21:36: /u/BlatantConservative: 1 new case in Kuwait — from The Guardian at 21:36: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/RDgCAA | 22:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News Italia at 21:44: (news): Coronavirus in Italia: le news di oggi e le ricadute sullo sport - Sky Sport — from The Guardian at 21:44: How to protect yourself from coronavirus → https://is.gd/lfP0JK | 22:49 |
| LjL | ebbasta con 'ste ricadute sullo sport chissenefrega | 22:50 |
| LjL | contingo, Guardian is a little less optimistic on how long the virus may survive on surfaces than the official indications we get (which is "hours at worst"): Viruses can also be spread through droplets landing on surfaces such as seats on buses or trains or desks in school. However, whether this is a main transmission route depends on how long viruses survive on surfaces – this can vary from hours to months. | 22:56 |
| LjL | i do see the nuance where they aren't actually attributing anything to *this specific* virus | 22:56 |
| LjL | that's how i'd write it too | 22:57 |
| LjL | but maybe reassuring people about packages from China being safe is more important | 22:57 |
| LjL-Matrix | For the Matrix room, I'm going to disable snippets and images by default. The bot is spammy enough even without them | 22:58 |
| LjL-Matrix | You can enable them in your clients if you want them anyway | 22:58 |
| contingo | there's nothing unequivocal about survival on surfaces for this virus, just ongoing studies | 23:07 |
| contingo | all of us are participating in the study | 23:42 |
| contingo | AND THEN | 23:42 |
| LjL | Good point | 23:48 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
