| python476 | 45th potus, nothing new | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| python476 | are the death rates slowing ? | 00:00 |
| python476 | JHU shows infection graphs | 00:00 |
| python476 | but not DR | 00:00 |
| dividediff[m] | Italy's new cases seem to linear increase rather than exponential as of March 20, 2020 | 00:02 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], it was going slightly down for a couple of days, but now it's been going slightly up again for the last couple of days | 00:02 |
| LjL | it's not great | 00:02 |
| LjL | i wouldn't say it's reliably linear yet | 00:02 |
| LjL | (also, it needs to flatten, not just be linear) | 00:03 |
| LjL | (but can't get everything at once i guess) | 00:03 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: yea | 00:03 |
| metreo | The number of cases is continuing to rise | 00:03 |
| dividediff[m] | S korea has more recoveries than new cases. Does that mean their infection graph is decreasing? | 00:03 |
| python476 | metreo: globally ? not surprising | 00:04 |
| LjL | as i said, i don't look at recoveries | 00:04 |
| LjL | they are not reliable | 00:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet at 00:00 UTC: [World Report] Canada and COVID-19: learning from SARS: The 2003 SARS epidemic killed 44 people in Canada, and led to many proposals for reforms. Paul Webster looks at how the SARS outbreak has affected Canada's COVID-19 response. β from WHO at 00:00: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/JoLaPw | 00:09 |
| dividediff[m] | Oh hey, italy has more recoveries than new cases. So maybe they're almost at peak new corona? | 00:09 |
| LjL | no | 00:09 |
| oriba | LjL: why are recoveries not reliable? | 00:09 |
| LjL | oriba, because i've looked at the recovery graphs of many countries and they are clearly reported in an inconsistent manner, and spottily | 00:10 |
| LjL | oriba, just go to offloop and look at a few of them, you'll see they aren't what you'd expect | 00:10 |
| LjL | compare a few countries etc | 00:10 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: too bad | 00:10 |
| oriba | LjL: but the whole data is unreliable... | 00:10 |
| LjL | oriba, it's different | 00:10 |
| oriba | hmhh | 00:10 |
| LjL | oriba, new case data is unreliable because not all cases are being counted, but it *is* representative of the swabs they do that test positive | 00:11 |
| LjL | oriba, deaths, there's nitpicking to be done about deaths, too, but mostly, dead is dead | 00:11 |
| LjL | oriba, but recoveries aren't prioritized as something to report, first, and second, there is no very standard definition of having recovered, although it typically involves no symptoms (but sometimes people still have symptoms despite being called recovered) and two negative swabs | 00:12 |
| skullomania | LjL you seem a bit too stressed out about this | 00:12 |
| LjL | oriba, no number is ever "reliable" for anything than what it's actually reporting. so, confirmed case data is only representative of confirmed cases, and we should be acutely aware of that (it doesn't mean "all cases" or anything). but when you look at recovery charts that just jump all over the places, that's sloppy reporting. | 00:12 |
| LjL | skullomania, no shit? | 00:12 |
| skullomania | yes, maybe relax a bit? | 00:13 |
| skullomania | just for the sake of your mental health | 00:13 |
| LjL | thanks for the advice | 00:13 |
| Timvde | skullomania: well, he is. But honestly, up until now, he was pretty much right all the time, so... | 00:13 |
| LjL | i'll take a break | 00:13 |
| oriba | LjL: no, no, no break, you can make a break when I log out ;-) | 00:14 |
| Timvde | First person I encounter after about 15 minutes | 00:19 |
| oriba | Timvde: what? where? | 00:19 |
| Timvde | oriba: just outside | 00:19 |
| Timvde | I went for a walk | 00:19 |
| oriba | where? | 00:19 |
| Timvde | Belgium | 00:19 |
| azy | pubs packed here in england | 00:19 |
| azy | according to instagram | 00:19 |
| oriba | are there more people outside at this time normally? | 00:20 |
| oriba | Timvde: are there more people outside at this time normally? | 00:20 |
| Timvde | azy: really? Pubs have been closed since almost a week now | 00:20 |
| ketas | in case you want to watch estonian heavy metal band performing live in empty venue: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HhmZxYaQHQ8 | 00:20 |
| ketas | fun | 00:20 |
| Timvde | oriba: yes, definitely on a Friday nights | 00:20 |
| Timvde | s/s$// | 00:21 |
| metreo | Governments told us: "this is not the time for public gatherings" | 00:21 |
| Timvde | oriba: but everything is closed, so... | 00:21 |
| oriba | ketas: with this new drink the pubs can stay open: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-india-cow-urine-pa/hindu-group-offers-cow-urine-in-a-bid-to-ward-off-coronavirus-idUKKBN2110CH?fbclid=IwAR0uE5iRpKdKF4JtSHi3qy00mMBYyqTJZzBPh1QXZlLUftCiwzVPFINBeqQ | 00:21 |
| oriba | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi9OdFmHb9E | 00:21 |
| azy | some maybe Timvde | 00:22 |
| oriba | Timvde: you were on the way to the pub? | 00:22 |
| Timvde | oriba: no, just for a walk | 00:22 |
| oriba | aha | 00:22 |
| Timvde | I haven't been outside all week | 00:22 |
| metreo | Has anyone seen: The Contaigen on Netflix? | 00:22 |
| oriba | wow! | 00:22 |
| Timvde | I went to the store on Monday just after noon and for a walk at night, apart from that, last week Thursday is the last time I was outside | 00:23 |
| ketas | oh the fun times | 00:23 |
| Timvde | But I really want some fresh air once in a whike | 00:23 |
| Timvde | And like, walking over 500 steps in a day sometimes is probably also a good idea... | 00:24 |
| yuriwho | did any of that go through? | 00:26 |
| Timvde | yuriwho: I didn't get any message from you | 00:26 |
| yuriwho | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/EJ9KwUNP/ | 00:27 |
| yuriwho | here is his full blog post: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/20/chloroquine-past-and-present | 00:27 |
| dividediff[m] | Chloroquine has been recommended by Chinese, South Korean and Italian health authorities for the treatment of COVID-19,[49][50][unreliable medical source?] | 00:34 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], for "some" cases. | 00:34 |
| [itchyjunk] | Not in all cases. | 00:34 |
| [itchyjunk] | that distinction has somehow disappeared | 00:34 |
| oriba | ketas: listening to the metal band, not bad :-) | 00:35 |
| oriba | ketas: somehow funny :-) | 00:35 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: yea. | 00:35 |
| dividediff[m] | " contraindications for people with heart disease or diabetes" | 00:35 |
| Brainstorm | πΆ World: +269 cases (now 274106) πΆ US: +203 cases (now 19286) πΈ Brazil: +66 cases (now 970) πΈ United Arab Emirates: +2 deaths (now 2) | 00:37 |
| dividediff[m] | It looks like chloroquine isn't being used outside of china, korea and italy for corona? | 00:37 |
| fructose | https://i.redd.it/xhcp7g7x2sn41.png | 00:38 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], or in other words, it's being used in all three countries most heavily hit by it? | 00:40 |
| pagetelegram | Health recommendations I live by inspired by many things including ancient vedic health sciences...https://hand.is/corona/health.pdf do as you will I am not suggesting anyone do what I do just uttering here to share what I am doing for myself. | 00:40 |
| LjL | fructose, good job ;( | 00:40 |
| dividediff[m] | Make sure yall don't get scurvy or b12 deficiency! | 00:41 |
| pagetelegram | fructose; gotta assume they were all infected anyhow. before the gathering. | 00:41 |
| LjL | pagetelegram, i am not sure i am comfortable with that sort of... okay, i can see you're specifically not recommending it to others. but it kinda makes it look like a medical prescription anyway. | 00:42 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], i'd say more importantly for this period, let's ensure we all get enough vitamin D | 00:42 |
| oriba | LjL: end of pause? | 00:42 |
| LjL | people are not going to get much sun these days, if they're stuck inside | 00:42 |
| pagetelegram | Yeah it is what I am doing. Folks can do what they think is good. Yeah b12 is good too. I get that from other sources | 00:42 |
| LjL | and sunshine is the primary source of vitamin D | 00:43 |
| LjL | oriba, yes, i drank some alcohol (totally recommended!) and shaved. | 00:43 |
| LjL | i think it was a fair pause | 00:43 |
| oriba | LjL: heheh.... | 00:43 |
| pagetelegram | That is important. I use full-spectrum 2200 K light LEDs exposed. | 00:43 |
| oriba | LjL: hmhhhh, thinking about my beer.... | 00:43 |
| oriba | Multiple reporting of patients in covid19 studies... https://retractionwatch.com/2020/03/16/keeping-coronavirus-numbers-straight-jama-sounds-an-alarm/ | 00:44 |
| pagetelegram | Drink as you like; it however depress immune system so does sugar and the two related. I drink modestly myself. | 00:44 |
| LjL | pagetelegram, honestly, synthesized vitamin D should be just as good as the one you get from the sun. but on the other hand, bright light *is* also important for our circadian rhythms. | 00:44 |
| LjL | pagetelegram, i am aware. i think i'll run the risk. it was just a tiny glass. | 00:45 |
| oriba | just a tiny glass of rum | 00:45 |
| pagetelegram | Drink to your health L'chaim | 00:46 |
| ketas | oriba: why funny0 | 00:46 |
| LjL | yuriwho, it may be worth having a section in the resources that both highlights current treatment strategies and what we know about them, but also with a clear, well-written indication that these treatments are likely going to be very dangerous and detrimental if just tried on your own. so far, i added a "Do I have it?" section, but it's work in progress, doesn't even list symptoms yet (but i thought clarifying *why* symptoms aren't conclusive is more | 00:46 |
| LjL | important than listing them) | 00:46 |
| ketas | ? | 00:46 |
| ketas | oriba: because unusual place? | 00:47 |
| oriba | ketas: what? | 00:47 |
| oriba | ketas: ah.... instrumentation is unusual | 00:47 |
| ketas | oh | 00:47 |
| oriba | ketas: and the language | 00:47 |
| ketas | it's basically stage equipment supply warehouse | 00:47 |
| oriba | ketas: are you from estonia? | 00:47 |
| ketas | yes | 00:47 |
| oriba | ketas: bagpipe is from sctoland, not? | 00:48 |
| ketas | it is | 00:49 |
| ketas | they use number of instruments | 00:49 |
| ketas | bagpipe solo was just priceless | 00:49 |
| ketas | LjL: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HhmZxYaQHQ8 | 00:50 |
| LjL | skullomania, advice was ultimately appreciated, even if i reacted snarkily at first. Timvde: also appreciated | 00:50 |
| oriba | the first songs were somehow funny, can't explain why... maybe the way they sing and the language.... also not what I would think would be typical metal. But some later songs more of what I would call metal... but I'm far from being an expert | 00:50 |
| xrogaan | LjL: is there a public log for this channel? | 00:51 |
| LjL | xrogaan, not strictly speaking, but this channel is also a Matrix room, and i believe you can view past history on there | 00:51 |
| oriba | ketas: is this some kind of middle-ages style? | 00:51 |
| LjL | i'm probably not in the mood for that | 00:52 |
| LjL | or rather it wouldn't help my mood | 00:52 |
| oriba | LjL: just one more drink, the it fits the mood ;-) | 00:52 |
| pagetelegram | I updated the orientation so you all not tilting your screens or heads: https://hand.is/corona/health.pdf (my mistake, I just noticed.) | 00:52 |
| ketas | oriba: maybe | 00:53 |
| LjL | oriba, i'm not estonian, i'll limit my drinking | 00:53 |
| xrogaan | LjL: could ask the one behind IrcLogger to make his bot join. https://colabti.org/ilogger2/IrcLogger2.html | 00:53 |
| ketas | oriba: you can find description of them somewhere | 00:53 |
| oriba | ketas: I like that band how long is the video? maybe I download it :-) | 00:53 |
| ketas | "folk metal" | 00:53 |
| ketas | no idea wtf that was | 00:53 |
| oriba | ketas: ah ok :-) | 00:53 |
| oriba | ketas: hey, nice blonde lady there :-) | 00:54 |
| ketas | it's not metal nor rock, no idea what genre they are really | 00:54 |
| LjL | xrogaan, although Matrix technically has past history already, i think i'll want to ask individual ops here how they feel about that before i do it. i'll let you know | 00:54 |
| ketas | i don't usually listen this style either | 00:55 |
| oriba | ketas: aha, ok. so then "funny metal" was not wrong :-) | 00:55 |
| ketas | but i won't skip them | 00:55 |
| xrogaan | is has a search feature an all. Which is nice. | 00:55 |
| oriba | ketas: I thought nice, but not so long to hear... now I just let it on my ears... maybe time for the beer :-) | 00:56 |
| pagetelegram | I'm listening now to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0qs1n0n7lQ | 00:57 |
| oriba | ketas: I sent the link a friend of me... he is a metal expert... waiting for response heheh | 00:57 |
| LjL | xrogaan, i am a bit conflicted myself. on the one hand, information about COVID-19 should be available as widely as possible in my opinion, without important things being hidden. on the other, people in here sometimes share things like their location which they may not really share during normal times. i do realize that everyone should treat the channel as public anyway, but still... | 00:57 |
| ketas | LjL: hmm? | 00:59 |
| ketas | like precise location? | 00:59 |
| ketas | or country? | 00:59 |
| LjL | ketas, well, ideally not | 00:59 |
| LjL | but people here know i'm from Milan | 00:59 |
| LjL | that's somewhat specific | 00:59 |
| LjL | but it would also be impractical for me to hide it, given things that are ongoing here | 01:00 |
| LjL | i don't usually say it as liberally | 01:00 |
| PlanckWalk | Most governments can't really release their expert estimates of current prevalence, or nearly everyone would totally freak. | 01:00 |
| LjL | PlanckWalk, well we have some estimates, at least about Italy, in the resources. i think they can be extended to many countries, although the situation in Italy is worse than most | 01:01 |
| ketas | well hidden LjL | 01:01 |
| LjL | but the US is also likely underestimating prevalence, like, a lot | 01:01 |
| LjL | ketas, obviously i'm not hiding it right now | 01:01 |
| ketas | LjL: so you won't tell your town? | 01:01 |
| ketas | :P | 01:01 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, I mean official estimates delivered to media | 01:01 |
| LjL | PlanckWalk, i don't like it when they lie. but honestly, i've seen various countries *admitting* that their number of positives is probably an underestimate, sometimes specifying by how much they believe it is, like 6x, 10x... | 01:02 |
| dunnp | I agree with LjL - lots of people share more than they normally would when they are this worried | 01:02 |
| LjL | so i don't think this has been something culpably hidden, not in many places anyway | 01:02 |
| LjL | hey dunnp, speaking of sharing things, do you have a github account? | 01:02 |
| ketas | who | 01:03 |
| dunnp | I do LjL | 01:03 |
| ketas | i do | 01:03 |
| ketas | empty | 01:03 |
| ketas | i have code in other places | 01:03 |
| xrogaan | LjL: the channel is public anyhow. | 01:04 |
| LjL | xrogaan, yes, that is true, i did mention it. but i think there is a difference anyway | 01:04 |
| LjL | a practical difference, if not a theoretical one | 01:04 |
| LjL | xrogaan, i'm not saying "no", i'm saying i haven't decided whether i feel comfortable with that. also considering that anyone can sign up to Matrix and see it *while* showing themselves in here | 01:05 |
| xrogaan | The log only show a nickname though | 01:05 |
| PlanckWalk | There's no hint at all from Australian authorities that the actual infection numbers are larger than confirmed cases :-( They are saying that might be true in some other countries, though. | 01:05 |
| xrogaan | there is a robots.txt to forbid any indexing. | 01:05 |
| LjL | PlanckWalk, it's probably true in other countries that begin with A and end with ustralia | 01:06 |
| LjL | xrogaan, yep, i read that | 01:06 |
| PlanckWalk | Heh yes :) | 01:06 |
| ketas | are there many countries like this | 01:06 |
| ketas | ? | 01:06 |
| ketas | :P | 01:06 |
| xrogaan | and there already is a public log on matrix. | 01:07 |
| LjL | none that a gentleman would want to visit | 01:07 |
| xrogaan | but matrix sucks. | 01:07 |
| LjL | xrogaan, if you repeat thing i've already said that won't cancel out, you know? | 01:07 |
| LjL | you can see the public log *if* you join the channel on Matrix | 01:07 |
| xrogaan | (but it can reinforce them arguments :P) | 01:07 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | Looks like us will be in third place for most infections by tomorrow | 01:07 |
| ketas | LjL: i don't think town, country, or person/country/town has covid matters much | 01:07 |
| LjL | look guys, i said i will ask the other ops how they feel about this, and consider it more myself too. insisting a lot won't change my opinion suddenly. in fact, when people do that they tend to make opposing opinions less flexible. | 01:08 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | %data us | 01:09 |
| Brainstorm | v0idkr4ft[m]: In all areas, US, there are 19393 cases, 256 deaths (1.3% of cases), 147 recoveries as of March 20, 23:59Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 01:09 |
| xrogaan | Anyhow, it's impractical to join the matrix stuff to search the history. And many useful information can be linked to instead of repeated. I see people unaware of stuff we talked about a day or two prior. | 01:10 |
| LjL | that's why i'm working on the resources page and trying to add everything that seems important | 01:11 |
| LjL | sometimes i have to repeat things that are right there, in the topic, because people are somehow allergic to channel topics | 01:11 |
| xrogaan | and if people are worried about personal information, why would they share that in a room filled with over 300 heads? | 01:12 |
| LjL | i don't feel like talking about this anymore for now. | 01:12 |
| xrogaan | ;) | 01:12 |
| ryouma | these are unusual times | 01:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:07 UTC: (news): GM to lend its auto factories to support production of ventilators in coronavirus fight β from WHO at 00:07: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/1humgN | 01:12 |
| LjL | et | 01:13 |
| xrogaan | A game to play with your family: https://store.steampowered.com/app/442070/Drawful_2/ | 01:16 |
| xrogaan | You are prompted to draw something, other need to guess. Pretty nice. | 01:16 |
| dunnp | xrogaan: jackbox party pack | 01:17 |
| dunnp | it is pretty funny | 01:17 |
| LjL | i suspect people will be playing a lot of these types of games in the near future... | 01:17 |
| LjL | and possibly medium-term future | 01:17 |
| Timvde | Sadly, Jackbox doesn't run on Linux | 01:18 |
| dunnp | ive invited my whole research group to start some weekly games | 01:18 |
| ryouma | these ventilators will take what amount of time to design, design the manufacture of, plan, get supplies for, make, test, and distribute? | 01:18 |
| ryouma | (not to mention get approved) | 01:19 |
| LjL | ryouma, probably too much, although corners will be cut | 01:19 |
| Jigsy | Not COVID related, but... | 01:19 |
| Jigsy | https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/mar/20/locust-crisis-poses-a-danger-to-millions-forecasters-warn | 01:19 |
| LjL | ryouma, don't expect very sophisticated approval procedures. Trump's emergency state declaration did include passages where he said he would cut corners on approval of things. | 01:19 |
| ryouma | i'm ok with cutting corners but i wonder whether it's 18mo or 6mo or what | 01:19 |
| Jigsy | The news just gets worse. | 01:19 |
| xrogaan | Also GameStop closes everywhere in California, which is good. | 01:19 |
| xrogaan | %title https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/359916/GameStop_abruptly_shuts_down_all_stores_in_California.php | 01:19 |
| Brainstorm | xrogaan: From www.gamasutra.com: Gamasutra - GameStop abruptly shuts down all stores in California | 01:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:07 UTC: US news: Coronavirus live updates: global cases top quarter of a million, as Italy sees biggest daily rise in deaths β from WHO at 00:07: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/XMXLZp | 01:20 |
| LjL | Jigsy, damn, i had optimistically assumed the locust crisis was somehow over by now | 01:20 |
| oriba | save the water, don't wash hands too often ;-) | 01:20 |
| Brainstorm | πΆ World: +125 cases (now 274231), +12 deaths (now 11368), +562 recoveries (now 91172) πΆ New York, US: +2945 cases (now 8310), +8 deaths (now 42) πΆ Michigan, US: +218 cases (now 552) πΆ Hubei, China: +6 deaths (now 3139), +560 recoveries (now 58942) πΆ China: +6 deaths (now 3259), +560 recoveries (now 71826) πΈ Brazil: +66 cases (now 970) [... want %more?] | 01:22 |
| LjL | more seriously, washing your hands too often may make them too dry, which also helps pathogens. i'd say wash them when you know they have touched anything that may be contaminated. | 01:22 |
| LjL | the hell, NY | 01:23 |
| LjL | %cases ny | 01:23 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In New York, US, there are 8310 cases, 42 deaths (0.5% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 00:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 01:23 |
| ryouma | cuomo really sounds rational in that article recently. i'd like to see more leaders act and talk like him. although if he had done exactly the same 2w ago it would have been better. | 01:23 |
| ryouma | he does not sound stupid. that's really rare for a politician. | 01:24 |
| Timvde | I'm glad I had some hand cream lying around (even though it is getting old, it still helps) | 01:24 |
| LjL | well whatever he's doing, it better work, because the numbers are getting crazy scary in NY | 01:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | Idk, he decided to not close school because kids need food and such. and the kids might have been taking it back to their parents. | 01:24 |
| LjL | Timvde, yeah, that's become sort of a rare good, as with a few other things | 01:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | undermining everything else that was being done | 01:25 |
| ryouma | hmm yeah that should have a better solution | 01:25 |
| ryouma | didn't notice that one | 01:25 |
| LjL | the school issue is a tricky one to be fair | 01:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | Locally, schools around here have "grab and go" and a "brown bag" solution | 01:25 |
| LjL | there *is* a decent argument that if you close school, you will either impede parents who may be health workers or otherwise required, and tend to have children directly managed by elderly people | 01:25 |
| ryouma | they should just supply the food then | 01:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | no school, kids can come (at slightly different times) and take the food with them | 01:26 |
| dunnp | same [itchyjunk] - ours now have food for weekends too | 01:26 |
| [itchyjunk] | and the brown bag is if they or their parents need a little extra | 01:26 |
| [itchyjunk] | same here i think | 01:26 |
| [itchyjunk] | everyday | 01:26 |
| LjL | extra of school food? who'd want that? your school must have much better food than ours | 01:26 |
| LjL | i didn't even want my share of school food (for the luckily few years i had to eat at school) | 01:26 |
| dunnp | people who can't afford food LjL | 01:26 |
| LjL | fair point | 01:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:19 UTC: (news): WHO officials say at least 20 coronavirus vaccines are in development in global race for cure β from WHO at 00:19: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/jxrjXQ | 01:27 |
| LjL | although people here pay for school food | 01:27 |
| PlanckWalk | As I see it, we will have to close schools sooner or later. We can do it now when they aren't carrying the virus, or later when a lot more of them do. | 01:27 |
| LjL | there have been some rather unsightly events where kids were denied food because their parents weren't paying | 01:27 |
| PlanckWalk | But yeah, socially it is very tricky. | 01:27 |
| LjL | PlanckWalk, since the UK didn't seemingly want to close them at first, i believe their later solution involved keeping them open with minimal staff, only for children of healthcare workers (and perhaps other hand-picked categories, not sure) | 01:28 |
| [itchyjunk] | I dont go to the school, i was talking about high school. | 01:28 |
| LjL | that might be one type of solution | 01:28 |
| [itchyjunk] | My uni has a no question food pantery. | 01:28 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, that seems a good tradeoff | 01:28 |
| [itchyjunk] | It always did. | 01:28 |
| [itchyjunk] | You could always grab stuff from there and they wouldn't care. | 01:28 |
| PlanckWalk | Most of the schools here have smaller classes due to parents removing their children anyway | 01:29 |
| [itchyjunk] | they had canned food and frozen veges and what not | 01:29 |
| PlanckWalk | (As in my local area, not necessarily all of Australia) | 01:29 |
| dunnp | same here [itchyjunk]... | 01:29 |
| [itchyjunk] | noice | 01:30 |
| [itchyjunk] | i'm still looking for sacks of rice | 01:30 |
| [itchyjunk] | can't find them at "regular" price anywhere | 01:30 |
| [itchyjunk] | all sold out :( | 01:30 |
| Timvde | Rice was literally the only thing that was sold out in our supermarket | 01:32 |
| Timvde | There was still toilet paper, pasta and basicallu just everything, except rice | 01:33 |
| [itchyjunk] | >:'[ | 01:33 |
| [itchyjunk] | bastards left none for me | 01:33 |
| LjL | Timvde, i think in some places, the supermarket shortages were greatly exaggerated. and when they weren't, they became self-fulfilling prophecies. sometimes the internet has this ability to turn a local phenomenon global... | 01:34 |
| Timvde | Yea, everything's fine here | 01:34 |
| LjL | supermarkets *are* a problem now in Milan, but not really because you cannot "find stuff" | 01:34 |
| LjL | they are becoming logistically a larger and larger problem, but they're still fully stocked - hand sanitizer aside, okay | 01:34 |
| LjL | (but also our pharmacy made their hand sanitizer, it shouldn't be hard for any pharmacy that has a lab) | 01:35 |
| oriba | LjL: hand washing lotion can be selfmade | 01:35 |
| LjL | oriba, yeah, but i've found it slightly tricky to make it into the gel form that's convenient to bring around with you | 01:36 |
| LjL | also, glycerol is usually employed, and it's become harder to find too | 01:36 |
| LjL | just alcohol and water isn't good enough, dries your hands | 01:36 |
| [itchyjunk] | I've been (unsuccessfully) trying to track logistics. | 01:36 |
| [itchyjunk] | There is very tiny (but legitimate) backlog in logistics. | 01:36 |
| [itchyjunk] | And I don't see it reason it cannot accumulate. | 01:37 |
| xrogaan | From Italy: 627 death in 24 hours | 01:37 |
| LjL | honestly, i'd have tried harder to make my own hand gel if it weren't for the fact my pharmacy didn't a better job before i even had to try | 01:37 |
| [itchyjunk] | USA is into its double digit a day death toll. | 01:37 |
| xrogaan | It's just crazy. And not so far away, the Brits are singing and drinking in pubs. | 01:37 |
| [itchyjunk] | (for now) | 01:37 |
| darsie | Austria's doubling time is increasing: https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Austria | 01:38 |
| LjL | xrogaan, want more numbers for italy? i did write it all down at 18:00 when it was reported https://dpaste.org/4g5O | 01:38 |
| oriba | I think we should not be that miserly, I mean every country should get the possibility to experience exp(x). :P | 01:39 |
| [itchyjunk] | Oh, uk already has deaths in double digits a day? | 01:40 |
| [itchyjunk] | Hmm, interesting approach over there. | 01:40 |
| LjL | darsie, although tinwhiskers did a good job adding the doubling time regression, i would be careful with drawing early conclusions. you're in the early stage of the growth still. when i look at the actual graph, the past few days have been somewhat linear, it may still be compatible with an exponential growth, but it's also comptatible with linear growth, at least if the government nudges it in the right direction with lockdowns | 01:41 |
| ryouma | i want a chart (impossible to produce) that shows actual seriousness, degree of public taking it seriously, and latter for gov/bus seriousness on the y axisp and time on the x axis | 01:41 |
| LjL | if you switch to log scale, also, it looks to me like it's less than linear (which means less than exponential) | 01:41 |
| LjL | (so to speak) | 01:41 |
| [itchyjunk] | ryouma, some businesses are talking it very seriously : | 01:42 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/03/does-gamestop-really-need-to-be-open-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic/ | 01:42 |
| ryouma | i am impressed with the articles on the businesses that are taking it seriously. not with tesla but supermarkets and many more. | 01:43 |
| ryouma | i am not impressed by delay of governments. and i am hearing ont his channel that the public does not get it. | 01:43 |
| ryouma | in principle much of retail could become delivery. but they don't have to deliver themselves just have companies specialized in delivery. | 01:45 |
| LjL | Timvde, the problem with supermarkets as i see it is they're just about THE riskiest place for catching the virus, and yet, the one that's hardest to close (unless you fancy people starving). now in Italy, most supermarkets seem to be adopting a "limited amount of people inside" policy... the apparent advantage is obvious, but on the flipside, people are being rushed to buy things quickly by staff (not very good for mental health), they are still touching | 01:46 |
| LjL | packaging, and outside, the queues of people are becoming ridiculously long... although mostly, at least in Milan, we see them respecting the "legal" 1m distance between each other | 01:46 |
| ubLIX | idk how the UK government got the idea that announcing tonight was the last night the pubs would be open for who knows how long would not produce a spike in hospital admissions two weeks from now. "flatten the curve flatten the curve" they keep saying | 01:46 |
| LjL | i believe given the current situation in Lombardy, supermarkets should be *heavily* encouraged to switch to delivery-only | 01:46 |
| LjL | they should concentrate resources on that | 01:46 |
| LjL | ubLIX, sigh. they keep making the same mistake. | 01:46 |
| LjL | lockdown first, tell later. | 01:46 |
| LjL | but no. | 01:46 |
| LjL | there was RUMORS, really little more than rumors, maybe something or prime minister let slip because he was feeling frustrated (he should know better, but still) that supermarkets may be asked to reduce their opening times. guess what? even MORE ridiculously long queues in front of supermarkets last night and today. | 01:48 |
| ketas | judging from measures, we have zombie apocalypse, but in reality it isn't | 01:48 |
| LjL | and it isn't even true (although some supermarkets are reducing their opening hours anyway, apparently, i think due to staff no longer wanting to be around) | 01:48 |
| ubLIX | too much money for a nationwide lock down like that. cheaper to just kill a bunch more people | 01:48 |
| LjL | ketas, hmm? | 01:48 |
| ketas | if some actualy highly deadly virus appears in future, what will we do then? | 01:49 |
| LjL | "actually highly deadly"? | 01:49 |
| LjL | do you think 10% of people catching it in Lombardy dying is somehow just a lighthearted test or something? | 01:50 |
| [itchyjunk] | Ah, r_0 > 2 and case mortality rate 1% "but what if a real virus comes through?" | 01:50 |
| [itchyjunk] | lol | 01:50 |
| ubLIX | ketas: die faster and in greater numbers, ketas | 01:50 |
| [itchyjunk] | If they die fast enough, it wouldn't spread. | 01:50 |
| LjL | ubLIX, i wouldn't wish them that! | 01:50 |
| [itchyjunk] | So if its that deadly, i'd be less worried. | 01:50 |
| ubLIX | point | 01:50 |
| ketas | hah | 01:50 |
| LjL | [itchyjunk], "fast" doesn't mean the same as "in high numbers", though | 01:51 |
| LjL | you can have a high chance of dying, and yet take a long time to | 01:51 |
| LjL | which is... unpleasant as a thought, but, since we're talking about terrible viruses. | 01:51 |
| ketas | LjL: i don't consider amount of panic appropriate with facts | 01:52 |
| ketas | hence i wondered what happens if it gets worse | 01:53 |
| Brainstorm | β― World: +356 cases (now 274587), +2 deaths (now 11370), +1 recoveries (now 91173) β― Switzerland: +208 cases (now 5615) π Australia: +51 cases (now 928) π Canada: +10 cases (now 1087) π China: +11 cases (now 81261), +1 recoveries (now 71827) π Shandong, China: +2 cases (now 764), +1 recoveries (now 749) π Shanghai, China: +9 cases (now 380) [... want %more?] | 01:53 |
| [itchyjunk] | When people die is irrelevent. It's about lytic cycle. | 01:53 |
| [itchyjunk] | It the lytic cycle is short and it's deadly then it will have to kill it within that time. | 01:53 |
| ketas | no covid deaths here yet but 10 so far from flu | 01:54 |
| Painter | If people only bought what they needed for two weeks, the supply chain could handle it. They are used to people buying for two weeks. | 01:54 |
| dividediff[m] | Anyone know a google drive link for film contagion? | 01:54 |
| [itchyjunk] | ketas, where is here? | 01:54 |
| c|oneman | I think its on netflix | 01:54 |
| LjL | ketas, please refer to resource link in topic to dispel any misleading "flu" comparison | 01:54 |
| ketas | [itchyjunk]: estonia | 01:54 |
| LjL | which i have now little patience for | 01:54 |
| [itchyjunk] | It wasn't on netflix last i checked. | 01:54 |
| dividediff[m] | c|oneman: netflix canada doesn't have as much as say america :( | 01:55 |
| [itchyjunk] | I am in USA, it wasn't there few days ago. | 01:55 |
| c|oneman | its on netflix canada | 01:55 |
| [itchyjunk] | Not sure if it is there now. | 01:55 |
| ketas | LjL: link of number of flu deaths here? | 01:55 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: i have it on dvd, i'll narrate it to you | 01:55 |
| ketas | oh that | 01:55 |
| LjL | ketas, are you able to extrapolate to the future? | 01:55 |
| LjL | if not, you may not belong here | 01:55 |
| LjL | we have no immunity to this virus | 01:56 |
| Painter | People really need to just stay in their own space as much as possible, since it's contagious before people even know that they are ill. | 01:56 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: i was thinking of reading thru the script w my gf and acting it all out ha | 01:56 |
| LjL | which kills something in between 0.5% and 10% of the people who get it | 01:56 |
| LjL | (more like 10% when the healthcare system can't cope) | 01:56 |
| LjL | and the growth is exponential, until we somehow stop it | 01:56 |
| Painter | They could be passing it on to many other people before they even become sick | 01:56 |
| LjL | that means even if it HAS had fewer deaths than flu, it WILL have MANY more unless we react | 01:56 |
| LjL | clear so far? | 01:56 |
| Painter | make it 6 ft please | 01:56 |
| [itchyjunk] | >.> why don't you walk a ft away? | 01:57 |
| Painter | oh, okay, I will. Good suggestion | 01:57 |
| dividediff[m] | Any other pandemic related movies? | 01:57 |
| dividediff[m] | I am legend (maybe?), wwz (maybe?), train to busan (not really) | 01:57 |
| Painter | lol | 01:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | Try local news | 01:58 |
| tinwhiskers | zombieland! | 01:58 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: Is zombieland basically jsut a zombie movie, or does it actual have pandemic things like contagion? | 01:58 |
| Painter | There was a hospital in USA that was without face masks. Once all other options were exhausted, they started asking crafters to sew up some CDC approved masks and gave out the instructions for them. | 01:59 |
| tinwhiskers | well, zombies are a contagion. No, it's not, but its just so great | 01:59 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], 27 days later style? | 01:59 |
| [itchyjunk] | There aren't too many pandemic type movies. | 01:59 |
| [itchyjunk] | the stories don't vary a lot. | 01:59 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: ha well maybe i'll watch it sometime soon over the next few weeks | 02:00 |
| [itchyjunk] | Virus spreads, toilet paper runs out, ???? , profit | 02:00 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: i'll look into it | 02:00 |
| Painter | The CDC approved face masks have to be made with 100% cotton. 2 rectangles 6" x9 ", and sewn together with some elastic for around ears, or ties for around the head. | 02:00 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: you mean 28** days later right? | 02:00 |
| ketas | LjL: quite hard to "react" and seems like we have time too, still | 02:00 |
| Painter | I don't know the length of the elastic, but ties could be any size. | 02:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], hmm i dont remember | 02:01 |
| LjL | ketas, uhm, sure, until you don't | 02:01 |
| LjL | ketas, enjoy your sudden lockdown when it's too late | 02:01 |
| LjL | i'll give you some tips for not going crazy | 02:01 |
| LjL | if i find some | 02:01 |
| LjL | so far i've only found one: stay away from people who are still like "it's a flu" on the internet | 02:01 |
| LjL | i would probably recommend that | 02:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | estonia can't contain | 02:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | too later there | 02:01 |
| pagetelegram | Sudden shutdown when it is too late; dead right! | 02:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | 200+ cases | 02:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | late* | 02:02 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: wow it's an old movie, 2002, the cinematographic style is dated ha | 02:02 |
| pagetelegram | Anyone happen to enjoy alpha to omega at all? or is that too old for you folks. | 02:02 |
| [itchyjunk] | i am old :( | 02:02 |
| Painter | They shut everything down really fast here because of how bad it got in other places. They are trying to flatten the curve much more quickly. | 02:03 |
| LjL | %title https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-homes-insigh/uncounted-among-coronavirus-victims-deaths-sweep-through-italys-nursing-homes-idUSKBN2152V0 | 02:03 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.reuters.com: Uncounted among coronavirus victims, deaths sweep through Italy's nursing homes - Reuters | 02:03 |
| LjL | "Gori said there had been 164 deaths in his town in the first two weeks of March this year, of which 31 were attributed to the coronavirus. That compares with 56 deaths over the same period last year." | 02:03 |
| python476 | i keep wishing the us a big spread just to see Trump getting booted | 02:03 |
| python476 | apologies for this useless comment | 02:03 |
| LjL | "Emilio Tanzi, director of Cremona Solidale, a 460-bed residence in the northern town of Cremona, said nursing homes were on the front lines of a crisis that predominantly affected the elderly, who nevertheless have not had adequate support. He said there had been a significant and βanomalousβ increase in deaths since about March 2, when the spread of the epidemic began to gather pace in Italy." | 02:03 |
| LjL | python476, yes that's unhelpful to be honest, but then so was my wish above | 02:04 |
| LjL | let's breathe in a bag | 02:04 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: it's basically a zombie movie from the looks of it | 02:04 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], i think so | 02:04 |
| [itchyjunk] | but instead of instant zombies | 02:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | its 29 days later | 02:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | sorry for spoilers | 02:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | but it reminds of what each countries are doing | 02:05 |
| Painter | The idiots that went to spring break in Florida and attended that huge beach party are probably wishing that they didn't, since there's been confirmed cases of people who've been in attendance (at least from what I've read) | 02:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | ah its not bad, mate. just 1 guy who's sick. 25 days later.. | 02:05 |
| LjL | in more colorful news, do you prefer πΈπΆ or πΉπ· for the updates? (other suggestions welcome too, just not inane) | 02:06 |
| [itchyjunk] | why not both? | 02:06 |
| Painter | but how many people did he come into contact with before he showed symptoms and before he was self-isolating? | 02:06 |
| LjL | [itchyjunk], well... how would i use both? | 02:07 |
| LjL | i'm already using two, one for smaller and one for bigger increases | 02:07 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: hawkeye is in it, much younger looking than in 2020 ha | 02:08 |
| LjL | i guess πΉ for small and πΈ for big is also an option if people are annoyed by the overly large ones | 02:09 |
| [itchyjunk] | oh really? | 02:09 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], i dont even remember haha | 02:09 |
| [itchyjunk] | maybe i should rewatch it. i just remember enjoying it | 02:10 |
| [itchyjunk] | hmm i might watch it again right now | 02:11 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +171 cases (now 274787), +9 deaths (now 11382), +379 recoveries (now 91552) πΈ Korea, South: +147 cases (now 8799), +8 deaths (now 102), +379 recoveries (now 2612) πΉ US: +24 cases (now 19522), +1 deaths (now 262) | 02:14 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], you watching it too? | 02:15 |
| oriba | Just for the record: in 2017/2018 the flu had killed about 25100 people in germany (estimated by experts). 2019/2020 is about 250 people (some days ago). | 02:16 |
| ketas | except noone cares about flu | 02:17 |
| ketas | LjL: i see too many false reports | 02:18 |
| yuriwho | %title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28030544 <-- about hand washing vs hand sanitizer for Ebola but possibly relevant here | 02:18 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Seeking Clearer Recommendations for Hand Hygiene in Communities Facing Ebola: A Randomized Trial Investigating the Impact of Six Handwashing Method... - PubMed - NCBI | 02:18 |
| LjL | ketas, you see what false reports where? | 02:19 |
| LjL | yuriwho, hmm, chroline seems to mostly have been ignored during this one | 02:21 |
| LjL | perhaps because we focused on countries that could (supposedly, for a while) afford alcohol-based gel | 02:22 |
| yuriwho | also remember that SARS-CoV-2 may be more about airborn > lung vs Ebola which is body fluids contact | 02:23 |
| LjL | yuriwho, yes, but wash your hands wash your hands wash your hands wash your hands wash your hands | 02:24 |
| LjL | sorry i just can't resist it after the WHO has repeated it so much | 02:24 |
| LjL | i HAVE to wash my hands anyway | 02:24 |
| Zalyssa | your hands wash | 02:24 |
| ketas | LjL: false reports that included me in the dangered group | 02:25 |
| python476 | night, good luck yall | 02:25 |
| LjL | python476, adios | 02:26 |
| LjL | ketas, not really sure what you're getting at | 02:26 |
| ketas | why? | 02:27 |
| oriba | Movies? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Omega_Man | 02:28 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: just watching clips on youtube. | 02:28 |
| oriba | https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/thema/2020/coronavirus/service/faelle-berlin-brandenburg-verdopplungszeit-fallzahlen-entwicklung.html | 02:30 |
| skullomania | to people using the same gloves all day long: are you guys mentally handicapped? | 02:32 |
| oriba | doubling time in Berlin: about 3 days | 02:33 |
| LjL | ketas, i have no clue what you're talking about. | 02:35 |
| LjL | skullomania, no need to be like that | 02:35 |
| ketas | how so? | 02:35 |
| LjL | ketas, i already asked all the relevant questions | 02:36 |
| LjL | either answer, or stop saying things that are neither here nor there | 02:36 |
| ketas | what i need to answer even? | 02:36 |
| skullomania | LjL to those people handling my food and my medicine, and also my doctors, i would like to ask if by wearing the same gloves all day long so filthy the fingertips have turned black... are they actually following health protocol, or just being lazy and protecting themselves, also consequently and knowingly increasing the chances of infecting other people? | 02:40 |
| [itchyjunk] | "disposable gloves" aren't meant to be worn all day. | 02:40 |
| BruntLIVE | i think mother nature has decided to give the earth an enema... and flush out all the parasites. We are the parasites. | 02:40 |
| ubLIX | skullomania: why do even you think these people are wearing the same gloves all day? | 02:41 |
| [itchyjunk] | No, we knew pandemic would come but big gov never cares about virology enough | 02:41 |
| skullomania | because of lack of gloves i would imagine | 02:41 |
| [itchyjunk] | I think we'll be better prepared for the next one. | 02:41 |
| skullomania | which should have them just wash their hands and use other methods but not wear the same pair of gloves | 02:41 |
| [itchyjunk] | Ypi | 02:41 |
| ubLIX | you can use hand sanitiser on gloves | 02:41 |
| [itchyjunk] | You're supposed to wash hands and handle food around here. | 02:41 |
| [itchyjunk] | disposable gloves are likely to rip after contacting moisture and such | 02:42 |
| [itchyjunk] | even your swaet can cause it | 02:42 |
| [itchyjunk] | skullomania, where are they doing this? | 02:42 |
| ubLIX | mhm. good luck wearing them for more than an hour in a brisk environment | 02:42 |
| [itchyjunk] | It's a crisis that most haven't prepared for. | 02:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:21 UTC: Australia coronavirus live updates: Victoria announces $1.7bn emergency support for businesses: New Zealand reports its biggest single-day increase in positive tests to Covid-19 as Australia tightens social distancing rules. Follow the latest news β from WHO at 01:21: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 02:43 |
| ketas | food industry and hospitals complain about missing protective gear because people bought it in panic | 02:43 |
| [itchyjunk] | Food industry should have bought it in panic too, maybe. Hospitals generally buy from commercial vendors. | 02:44 |
| skullomania | [itchyjunk] everywhere..grocery stores, clinics.. i had an issue with my ear where i had to go see a doc, he has always been a professional in my book since very young and i was surprised to see him wearing a filthy pair of gloves and he touched my face and my ear canal all over, i was actually a little worried because a ton of people were ahead of me and i only got to him before closing | 02:44 |
| skullomania | time..i could only imagine what if those instruments weren't properly desinfected.. | 02:44 |
| [itchyjunk] | High demands are hard to meet especially with (possible) breaks in supply chain. | 02:45 |
| BruntLIVE | people will start stealing from hospitals soon, they have wipes that will wipe to bone on first pass | 02:45 |
| [itchyjunk] | skullomania, i'm in USA and so far, i've not seen this. | 02:45 |
| [itchyjunk] | People have stolen from hospitals already. | 02:45 |
| Spec | ^ | 02:45 |
| [itchyjunk] | There is a reddit therad about it. | 02:45 |
| ketas | idiots | 02:46 |
| ketas | skullomania: reusing gloves, why? | 02:46 |
| [itchyjunk] | Lack of gloves would be my wild guess. | 02:46 |
| LjL | skullomania, i certainly don't disagree with the concept that throw-away gloves should be thrown away for health reasons (although there are big concerns in some countries now about supplies), i was just objecting to calling people "mentally handicapped" in order to make this point. you could make it eloquently, and did, without that part. | 02:46 |
| skullomania | LjL i am not sorry you wanted a little essay and i gave you what you describe as a teen magazine article, my point still stands...now move along | 02:49 |
| LjL | you move along | 02:49 |
| LjL | i'm over my threshold for today, and while i appreciate your earlier suggestion to calm down, you are not helping | 02:50 |
| LjL | and i can't but acknowledge that | 02:50 |
| dividediff[m] | Movies; | 02:58 |
| dividediff[m] | "Outbreak," a more grounded premise in which an airborne virus gets inadvertently smuggled into the US from Africa, requiring a team of doctors (led by Dustin Hoffman) to race against time trying to save a town where the infection is spreading. | 02:58 |
| dividediff[m] | "The Hot Zone," a fact-based account about the emergence of Ebola virus in 1989, and Army scientists reacting to potential exposure in the suburbs of Washington DC, via imported monkeys. | 02:58 |
| [itchyjunk] | I don't like "more realistic" type movie. | 02:58 |
| [itchyjunk] | I find reality to be interesting enough for that. | 02:59 |
| the_owls_are_not | Donβt forget about 12 monkeys... | 02:59 |
| [itchyjunk] | Say you wanted to prepare for the next outbreak. If you seriously think about it, there isn't anything extraordinarily better you could do. | 02:59 |
| [itchyjunk] | It would still be this game about "can you contain it?". | 03:00 |
| dividediff[m] | Local torrent websites in Italy have seen a massive uptick in traffic, with overall internet usage going up by at least 30% | 03:00 |
| ketas | hahaha | 03:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | The most ideal but probably the most unrealistic solution might be a way for us to interface with out immune system so we can control it. | 03:01 |
| ketas | everyone does warez in home now | 03:01 |
| Spec | I mean, we can definitely have a stockpile of enough essential equipment to deal with different types of contagions | 03:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | a] tell the immune system what to respond to | 03:01 |
| dividediff[m] | the_owls_are_not_what_they_seem: "12 Monkeys," a science-fiction plot about using time travel to try to thwart a nascent plague that will wipe out most of humanity | 03:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | b] control the intensity of response | 03:01 |
| dividediff[m] | Spec: thats my hope for the next pandemic | 03:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | There are probably billions of types of viruses. | 03:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | With all sorts of niche. | 03:02 |
| [itchyjunk] | Trying to prepare for all of them by hording stuff sounds archaic. | 03:02 |
| [itchyjunk] | Need a more fluid way to respond to pandemic. | 03:02 |
| Spec | but the vectors are limited | 03:02 |
| Spec | and PPE is a thing that can be stocked and maintained | 03:03 |
| [itchyjunk] | Protective gears have shelf lives. | 03:03 |
| Spec | yes | 03:03 |
| [itchyjunk] | Masks and gloves included. | 03:03 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: Also a contingency plan about how to quickly ram up production of medical equipment like ventilators and masks would be good. Like a plan in advance. Like the gov running mental fire drills, except mental pandemic drills | 03:03 |
| Spec | 'maintained', cycle through it, recycle, etc | 03:03 |
| [itchyjunk] | As governments change, those will not be maintained. | 03:03 |
| Spec | maybe they will be now. | 03:03 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], we have ways to do that already. | 03:03 |
| [itchyjunk] | No one wants to do that because no one is bearing the cost of it. | 03:04 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: not all governments change #chyna | 03:04 |
| [itchyjunk] | They won't. | 03:04 |
| [itchyjunk] | We've seen this with natural disasters for good 30 years. | 03:04 |
| Spec | [itchyjunk]: oh, because what we're enduring now is much cheaper | 03:04 |
| dividediff[m] | Spec: thumbs up | 03:04 |
| [itchyjunk] | You convinence the government in 5 years that they should budget for every possible event. | 03:04 |
| [itchyjunk] | They'll give you a million dollar and tell you good luck. | 03:05 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: after this all, maybe humans can ram up medical reserach, take care of HIV finally and learn more about immune contrl | 03:05 |
| Spec | pretty sure you'll get more than a million dollars to help prevent another airborne disease | 03:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | Humans have always tried to ramp up research the best they can. | 03:05 |
| Spec | masks and gloves aren't particularly expensive, not a huge burden for society | 03:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | uh. | 03:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | SARS-CoV was airborn. | 03:05 |
| dividediff[m] | After sars, most countries didn't do very much | 03:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | Person to person. | 03:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | High mortality rate. | 03:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | They dropped funding ~5 years later. | 03:06 |
| [itchyjunk] | Most governments. | 03:06 |
| dividediff[m] | however, after mers korea stepped it up i believe | 03:06 |
| [itchyjunk] | Sure. | 03:06 |
| Spec | that's 'casue corps that switched over production got fucked over by capitalism | 03:06 |
| [itchyjunk] | Some countries did. | 03:06 |
| [itchyjunk] | But barely. | 03:06 |
| Spec | the event was over before their facilities came online, so it was a very big waste | 03:06 |
| Spec | a social government would have bought and maintained the supply in the interest of public safety | 03:06 |
| [itchyjunk] | Hoping government will stockpile good might be your solution, it's not mine. | 03:07 |
| Spec | but...if you base it purely on private industry...and then they get screwed? of course you won't have a reasonable stockpile | 03:07 |
| dividediff[m] | Was china prepared for covi 19? | 03:07 |
| Spec | I said it should hopefully be one of many lessons learned, [itchyjunk] | 03:07 |
| [itchyjunk] | Considering the number of different viruses and possible mutations, there needs a much more fluid response. | 03:07 |
| Spec | like, good luck making one | 03:07 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], better than west, for sure. | 03:07 |
| [itchyjunk] | thanks. | 03:07 |
| Spec | stocking ppe isn't a huge logistical challenge that's unsolvable, it's actionable | 03:07 |
| Spec | and reasonable to maintain. | 03:07 |
| [itchyjunk] | It requires constant resources. | 03:07 |
| dividediff[m] | the chinese government was prepared to build hospitals i heard, i forget why, but maybe due to h1n1? | 03:08 |
| Spec | oh, so it creates jobs | 03:08 |
| Spec | neat | 03:08 |
| [itchyjunk] | Space, people and money to maintain it. | 03:08 |
| Spec | sounds great | 03:08 |
| [itchyjunk] | Okay, i'll ignore what you're saying because you keep going on tangents. | 03:08 |
| dividediff[m] | yall have heard of those seed bunkesr in like antartica? | 03:08 |
| [itchyjunk] | Anyways, China's response was to create a databank of viruses. | 03:08 |
| Spec | how is that a tangent? | 03:08 |
| Spec | you're saying: it costs money | 03:08 |
| [itchyjunk] | This seems to be a good idea. | 03:08 |
| Spec | so it won't happen - lol. | 03:08 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: virus databse? | 03:09 |
| [itchyjunk] | This is what lead us to identify cov-2 so quickly with the bat virus. | 03:09 |
| LjL | ugh, three people talking at the same time... with the same nick color | 03:09 |
| LjL | why HexChat why | 03:09 |
| Spec | LjL: to confuse you! | 03:09 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], wuhan institute of china was collecting bat virus samples. | 03:09 |
| LjL | (and how did i even survive back when mIRC had no nick coloring) | 03:09 |
| Spec | LjL: i don't use nick coloring :P | 03:09 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: how do i switch mine/others colors? | 03:09 |
| LjL | Spec, you're probably a cyborg | 03:09 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], it was also the institute that first identified cov-2 as novel. | 03:09 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], you can't, it's done at my client's end | 03:09 |
| LjL | it's nobody's fault | 03:09 |
| LjL | it's just random | 03:10 |
| dividediff[m] | yall have heard of those seed bunkesr in like antartica? | 03:10 |
| [itchyjunk] | Yes | 03:10 |
| [itchyjunk] | But its in different places. | 03:10 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: isn't that disaster prep? | 03:11 |
| [itchyjunk] | Those are viable seeds though, quite different to current problem. | 03:11 |
| [itchyjunk] | it's disaster prep in case you lose a species to say a virus | 03:11 |
| [itchyjunk] | but its not quite the solution for non plants | 03:11 |
| [itchyjunk] | well, might work for fungus with spores. | 03:11 |
| dividediff[m] | I've heard that nuclear powerplant run crazy thought experiments. They'll have plans for what to do if like an entire lake that they use for cooling gets thanos snapped out of existence | 03:12 |
| [itchyjunk] | so this is another thing, you can moniter humans, domestic and wildlife under a unified system for pathogens | 03:12 |
| [itchyjunk] | contingency plans. | 03:12 |
| ryouma | stockign ppe has to be a miniscule proportion of, for example a single hour of a significant war | 03:13 |
| dividediff[m] | So i think govs having more contingency plans would be good. They could type up the entire plan and store it in case it happens. Esp since Estorage is easy | 03:13 |
| [itchyjunk] | Over the past 20 years, we've learned that viruses cross species barrier much much easier than we had thought before that point | 03:13 |
| Spec | ryouma: right. | 03:14 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL, Spec: you can now align the series to a certain number of cases. One slight caveat is that due to the datasets beginning with China already having 548 cases China won't be displayed if you choose a value below that. | 03:14 |
| dividediff[m] | contingency plans would have prevent the CDC testing shuffle at least | 03:14 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, bummer, but thanks | 03:14 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, also i have a matter to submit to you in PM | 03:14 |
| tinwhiskers | ok | 03:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], the CDC's errors are partly caused by these plans. | 03:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | till you know how contagious a virus is, there are all sorts of levels of labs and who gets to deal with it. | 03:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | Consider this, SARS-CoV has escaped labs a few times. | 03:15 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: nice job, very interesting :) | 03:15 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: i thought they didn't have contingency plans? and were making it up as they went. At least theats how it looked | 03:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | Turns out, its really hard to handle viruses. | 03:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | No | 03:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | they had a bunch | 03:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | they weren't allowing tests to be done elsewhere till they had better idea of how much it was spreading etc | 03:16 |
| dividediff[m] | how did cdc's testing plan go so south? | 03:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | not sure | 03:17 |
| [itchyjunk] | wait for reports in the future i think | 03:17 |
| [itchyjunk] | i could make guesses but they won't mean much | 03:17 |
| ryouma | the one on svalbard island is the only one i know. it got flooded because the permafrost melted. it is probably ok at least for now but it is disturbign that it, one of the human species' last restrs, was affected by global warming --- becaue19:10 <dividediff[m]> yall have heard of those seed bunkesr in like antartica? | 03:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:13 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: South Korea reports 147 new cases, Mike Pence staffer tests positive: New cases in South Korea jumped by 147, as of Saturday morning, and eight more deaths. That brings the country's total to 8,799 confirmed cases, and 102 deaths. [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/xo08SF | 03:17 |
| oriba | Corona Simulation: perfectness of soc. distancing not necessary, but majority must do it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/ | 03:17 |
| dividediff[m] | I read that the process involved too much bureaucracy and slowed them down a lot | 03:17 |
| [itchyjunk] | probably part of it | 03:18 |
| [itchyjunk] | big part was protocol, i'd imagine. | 03:18 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: i thinks thats the one i was thinking about | 03:18 |
| [itchyjunk] | you test, re-test and make decision | 03:18 |
| [itchyjunk] | for novel viruses | 03:18 |
| [itchyjunk] | so that you don't throw out too many false alarms. | 03:18 |
| ryouma | i shouldn't say probably. all i know is it got flooded byt htat. | 03:18 |
| ryouma | dividediff[m]: taht's in the arctic | 03:18 |
| dividediff[m] | I think it's possible that in the future countries will handle pandemics bettr, since they'll have records from now. Ex, how china had a hospital plan from a while ago | 03:18 |
| [itchyjunk] | cdc's response rate was considered "adequate" for say ebola within USA and what not | 03:19 |
| [itchyjunk] | so they didn't have any massive pressure to better their process. | 03:19 |
| [itchyjunk] | On top of that, their costs have gone up but not their budget | 03:19 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: didn't ebola only kill like 1 person in usa? | 03:19 |
| [itchyjunk] | I am not sure of the numbers | 03:19 |
| dividediff[m] | oh yea true i heard trump cut the budget or smthg | 03:19 |
| [itchyjunk] | But this virus spread much more quickly. | 03:20 |
| [itchyjunk] | the virus spreading through asymptomatic patients was suspected in january | 03:20 |
| dividediff[m] | At minimum, going thrue this, i'll have a contingency plan for my pad ha | 03:20 |
| [itchyjunk] | by february is was beyond the control of any small department | 03:20 |
| [itchyjunk] | they needed global cooperation which they didn't get | 03:21 |
| ryouma | i idsagree with this. humans have always tried not to ramp up resaerch. covid-19 is an exception. hiv is also an exception in the us. it has treatments. but most chronic diseases are not ramped up and some are literally being pretended to not exist by most governments. --- 19:05 <[itchyjunk]> Humans have always tried to ramp up research the best they can. | 03:21 |
| [itchyjunk] | Well, it's hard to prepare for every calamity that way. | 03:21 |
| [itchyjunk] | You can disagree. | 03:21 |
| dividediff[m] | china, japan, korea, taiwan didn't seem to need much help (so far) from other countries. Not so much taiwan i geuss | 03:21 |
| [itchyjunk] | You're naming the countries with experiences. | 03:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | SARS-CoV, H1N1 etc. | 03:22 |
| Spec | ryouma: that's because our medical research is often funded by commercial/revenue-based decisions and profitability | 03:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | they had more "fluid" response. | 03:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | There disease control had access to a lot of resources immidately as well. | 03:22 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: fair | 03:22 |
| Spec | they had experiences...and a large national stockpile of supplies | 03:22 |
| Spec | and production capabilities | 03:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | The "health emergency" and "national emergency" clause wasn't needed to access the resources. | 03:23 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: i think we agree that running thought experiments on other disasters in the future is a good idea | 03:23 |
| [itchyjunk] | yes | 03:23 |
| [itchyjunk] | USA stockpiles more biochemical resources than probably any other country. | 03:23 |
| [itchyjunk] | dunnp explained yesterday, for example, her lab could have done tests. | 03:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | But there is a lot of protocols that need to be followed. | 03:24 |
| dividediff[m] | biochemical resources? | 03:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | Some of them have good reasons behind them. | 03:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], lab chemicals. | 03:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | An undergrad with access to a qPCR machine could run the tests in any uni lab. But they are not authorized. | 03:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | Again, because there are protocols on how and who gets to handle stuff. | 03:25 |
| dividediff[m] | i thought making testing kits didn't sound that hard | 03:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | Virus, patient data (hipaa laws) etc. | 03:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | (hipaa laws was also a big part of delay in USA, for example) | 03:26 |
| dividediff[m] | are they having students prepare things for kits now in usa? | 03:26 |
| bin_bash | this is the most selfish article ive read about covid-19 today: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wxekyz/transgender-surgeries-delayed-coronavirus-hospitals | 03:26 |
| [itchyjunk] | dividediff[m], not that i know. | 03:27 |
| [itchyjunk] | they let some private labs and bunch of hospitals do it. | 03:27 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: did you figure out the soap clothes virus problem? | 03:27 |
| [itchyjunk] | Trump dropped hipaa compliance temporarely, for example. | 03:27 |
| dividediff[m] | hipaa? | 03:27 |
| tinwhiskers | Spec: it is kinda interesting. That shows the US is the only country increasing more quickly than China did (Spain is close). | 03:29 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act | 03:29 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: yeah, but also that rise is probably (hopefully?) due to the delay in testing | 03:29 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 03:30 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: we are following a tight italy curve | 03:30 |
| dividediff[m] | [itchyjunk]: nvr heard of it til tdy | 03:30 |
| LjL | hello ChanServ | 03:31 |
| LjL | about time | 03:31 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: so 1-2 weeks away from some bad looking numbers :( | 03:31 |
| pagetelegram | This bill needs to pass; those falling through the cracks due to SMI and agnososia will die without it passing: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr2646 | 03:31 |
| tinwhiskers | hard to escape that conclusion (for many places) | 03:32 |
| pagetelegram | I will setup fax modem tonight and begin faxing congress tomorrow; and mail my letter of bill urging congress to pass to the White House. | 03:33 |
| dividediff[m] | bin_bash: i read half of it and i don't see what the life-saving part is. Unless they mean like suicide? | 03:33 |
| pagetelegram | Two parts 1) HIPAA exceptions for concerned families and friends; 2) forced treatment without need of certificate with petition. | 03:34 |
| pagetelegram | I have dealt with three individual friends personally and have seen two of them go to the dumps bc of the failure of system to recognize folks with lacking insight into their needs. I am dealing with one right now that wants help and can't get it....we peitioned him and he ended up getting kicked out of hospital bc being too symptomatic. | 03:36 |
| ryouma | agnososia? not a common word in english it seems. | 03:36 |
| pagetelegram | Anosognosia | 03:36 |
| pagetelegram | I read this book and found it crucial after the 2nd person I tried helping failed: https://www.nami.org/getattachment/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions/Related-Conditions/Anosognosia/I_am_not_sick_excerpt.pdf | 03:37 |
| tinwhiskers | pagetelegram: can you explain the issue for those of us with no background? | 03:37 |
| pagetelegram | I am successful with third person and now system fails | 03:37 |
| pagetelegram | Paranoid schizophrenics that don't accept treatment bc they lack insight. | 03:37 |
| tinwhiskers | ah, I see. | 03:38 |
| pagetelegram | First one I tried helping walked from Chicago to California in psychosis with nothing but a pack of cigs and 20 bucks on him. He was successful at it and still homeless and off grid having no connections | 03:38 |
| tinwhiskers | So you want to be able to force them into quarantine? | 03:39 |
| tinwhiskers | I mean, we don't have a treatment | 03:39 |
| pagetelegram | I wrote a book for the first one here: hand.is/books/speedy.pdf | 03:39 |
| ketas | what i meant to say earlier, is, i watch this situation calmly, my normal life is to not meet or touch people nor stand closer to them than few meters anyway, i don't wash or disinfect my hands until skin is dry and breaks, i don't wear water bottle over my head, i don't have my phone configured to give me notifications from facebook or anywhere else, i don't react to every unconfirmed story, instead i | 03:39 |
| ketas | wait for more and verify from multiple ... | 03:39 |
| ketas | higher, she lives alone and i don't plan ... | 03:39 |
| ketas | ... to visit her now, i know that there could complications to diseases as i have slight heart damage what doctor suspected to be result of some illness in childhood, people might be pissed about cov and flu comparison but i've yet to see stats that suggests this being highly dangerous to healhy individuals, i actually think that movie style outbreaks aren't possible irl at all, even if virus would be | 03:40 |
| ketas | designed, or i at least need proven hard ... | 03:40 |
| ketas | ... facts to that, that was what i wanted to say, i'm not careless, i just don't panic without reasons, but many if not most people are like that and that makes all sorts of crisis very dangerous, for example through physical violence | 03:40 |
| ketas | apparently this was long line | 03:40 |
| tinwhiskers | ketas: stop | 03:40 |
| pagetelegram | Third person I am helping now IDHS and CPD critical task force was ready to get him into REED hospital then next day the quarintine | 03:40 |
| pagetelegram | I chat with Alderman tonight and he is frustrated he been talking to death ears about those falling through the cracks | 03:41 |
| pagetelegram | *deaf | 03:41 |
| ryouma | no. thanks for asking. i am much too wiped by health issues --- 19:27 <dividediff[m]> ryouma: did you figure out the soap clothes virus problem? | 03:41 |
| ryouma | (all i can do is eat, medicine, bodily functions, and monitor this channel in case something even more critical pops up) | 03:41 |
| ryouma | brain too fried to do more than comment occasionally, but perhaps i will try to find a less-harmful, non-soap-containing detergent for carer, so that her clothes at least will kill the virus | 03:43 |
| ryouma | mine, idk | 03:43 |
| ketas | i'll sleep again i guess | 03:43 |
| tinwhiskers | ketas: there is a very clear message from the experts that this is not merely another flu and this channel will not be involved in spreading uncertainty about that message. You are uninformed and wrong. You've been told your message is not wanted here before. Don't be spreading your shit here. | 03:44 |
| ketas | although i might need to resupply food | 03:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:32 UTC: Australia coronavirus live updates: NSW closes Bondi Beach to enforce social distancing: Australia rolls out new social distancing rules as New Zealand reports its biggest single-day increase in positive tests to Covid-19. Follow the latest news β from WHO at 02:32: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 03:46 |
| pagetelegram | I would like to share a draft letter to congress when it is ready if that is ok. I like to get some eyes before I hit the carriage-return. Thanks | 03:47 |
| ryouma | "i've yet to see stats that suggests this being highly dangerous to healhy individuals" is problematic. highly. elderly and non-healthy are humans. | 03:47 |
| ryouma | even healthy elderly are in really high risk group | 03:48 |
| ketas | i didn't say they aren't | 03:48 |
| ryouma | it is highly dangerous to them | 03:49 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, and giving the impression that young people can ignore the risks is extremely selfish because they still spread the disease and kill other people | 03:49 |
| ryouma | exactly | 03:49 |
| ketas | i've heard some youngs joking about quarantine they need to be in and go party instead | 03:49 |
| ryouma | adn even 20-40yo are still gettign seriously sick and dying. a good number go to hospital. | 03:50 |
| ketas | i'm no those | 03:50 |
| LjL | "i know that there could complications to diseases as i have slight heart damage what doctor suspected to be result of some illness in childhood, people might be pissed about cov and flu comparison but i've yet to see stats that suggests this being highly dangerous to healhy individuals" | 03:50 |
| ketas | t | 03:50 |
| LjL | well, bad news for you | 03:50 |
| LjL | heart disease is a DEFINITE risk factor | 03:50 |
| LjL | in fact, cardiovascular disease is the #1 comorbidity | 03:50 |
| LjL | more than half of the ICU patients in the NL were under 50 a few years ago | 03:51 |
| LjL | you could definitely be "those", especially if you have heart issues | 03:51 |
| LjL | i don't want to scare you per se, but you seem to be detached from the reality of this disease | 03:51 |
| [itchyjunk] | oh, you want to know why its dangerous? that's easy. | 03:52 |
| LjL | and indeed, who the hell cares even if this really is not "highly dangerous to healthy individuals"? | 03:52 |
| ketas | you might think i have serious heart issue | 03:52 |
| [itchyjunk] | it's new. your body hasn't seen it before. | 03:52 |
| ryouma | who was it here who was writing a document or doing a youtube? was that dividediff[m]? | 03:52 |
| LjL | healthy individuals can definitely pass it on to NON healthy individuals, or elderly | 03:52 |
| [itchyjunk] | when it does, it will respond and it will respond hard. | 03:52 |
| [itchyjunk] | enough to kill you at worse or leave some scars in your lungs at least. | 03:52 |
| LjL | and if lockdowns are not implemented, and ICU capacity ramped up a LOT, around 2.5% *at least* of the population is eventually likely to perish | 03:52 |
| tinwhiskers | spreading a message that this is not dangerous is selfish, ignorant, bordering on sociopathic and deserving of legal penalties (manslaughter?) | 03:53 |
| ketas | LjL: which is why i don't plan to meet my mother? | 03:53 |
| ubLIX | ryouma: Rouge said he intended to write a blog | 03:53 |
| LjL | ketas, do you plan to go to supermarkets or other stores where elderly people also need to go? | 03:53 |
| ubLIX | ryouma: *RougeR | 03:53 |
| ryouma | RougeR: great | 03:53 |
| ketas | LjL: do you want me to die from starving? | 03:53 |
| [itchyjunk] | "new" and "person to person" should be enough resason to take it seriously enough. | 03:53 |
| LjL | glowing. i expect a blog by RougeR to be pretty much a stream of consciousness | 03:53 |
| LjL | ketas, no, of course not, but here, for instance, we are at a stage where we absolutely need to remain inside, and food should only be delivered... which is what is happening in Wuhan now, or at other times, people are only allowed to go outside for two hours at most, every two weeks, to buy food | 03:54 |
| LjL | ketas, also, here, there are now long queues outside supermarkets, because they will not allow more than a small number of people inside at a time (by law) | 03:55 |
| LjL | this is annoying, but this is also important | 03:55 |
| LjL | if you think these are overreactions, you're deluded, that's all | 03:55 |
| LjL | and if you think you can implement these reactions only when things "get serious", well, trust me, i've been through this so far, and things get serious faster than you realize, and certainly faster than government reacts | 03:55 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +2076 cases (now 276863), +33 deaths (now 11415), +802 recoveries (now 92354) πΈ Turkey: +311 cases (now 670), +5 deaths (now 9) πΉ Albania: +2 recoveries (now 2) πΉ Algeria: +4 cases (now 94) πΉ Argentina: +30 cases (now 158) πΉ Azerbaijan: +1 recoveries (now 7) πΉ Bahamas, The: +1 cases (now 4) [... want %more?] | 03:57 |
| ryouma | it was dividediff[m] i was thinking of | 03:57 |
| skreech | I wonder what the effects this general state of quarantine will have on other things like the "common cold" and flu | 03:58 |
| LjL | uhm turkey | 03:58 |
| LjL | %cases turkey | 03:58 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Turkey, there are 670 cases, 9 deaths (1.3% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 01:43Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 03:58 |
| LjL | doubling in a day | 03:58 |
| tinwhiskers | hrm, it sure does look like iran has hit a limit of their testing abilities. It's been remarkably linear for over a week now. | 03:58 |
| LjL | obviously their testing was "lacking" | 03:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:53 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: South Korea reports 147 new cases, Mike Pence staffer tests positive: New cases in South Korea jumped by 147, as of Saturday morning, and eight more deaths. That brings the country's total to 8,799 confirmed cases, and 102 deaths. [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/xo08SF | 03:58 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, you look at their numbers *at all*? you realize there's, like, towns that have carried rocks onto the streets to form barriers from people entering, things like that | 03:59 |
| LjL | barricades, etc | 03:59 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: i noticed its linearness and was wondering if they were doing a success, faking numbers, or at the limits of testing | 03:59 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: I see | 03:59 |
| tinwhiskers | Spec: I considered options 2 and 3 you mentioned but not 1 :-/ | 04:00 |
| Spec | you would think if they were success the line would continue a taper | 04:02 |
| Spec | and not just be linear | 04:02 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 04:03 |
| ketas | LjL: i would not go to supermarket at all, with or without virus, but now the delivery is working far beyond any limits and it's just not possible to get free slot, if i do, i take ot from somebody else who might have higher risk of dying from this | 04:04 |
| ketas | a distance precautions aren't overreations | 04:05 |
| ketas | however store closes early here which seems more dangerous | 04:05 |
| tinwhiskers | How can you be talking about this on one hand and on the other downplay how dangerous this is? | 04:06 |
| LjL | ketas, yes, it's the same here, deliveries are all booked. i think supermarkets should be financially encouraged to boost their delivery systems, and pretty much close down the physical stores | 04:06 |
| LjL | this is being done in Italy already with smaller shops | 04:06 |
| LjL | ketas, stores closing earlier seems contraindicated. there were rumors of that here, and it just resulted in more panic buying | 04:06 |
| ketas | tinwhiskers: downplay as well as upplay is dangerous | 04:07 |
| LjL | authorities certainly need to be cautious, and consider whether their actions will backfire | 04:07 |
| LjL | but that's very different from "let's do nothing, this is just a flu" | 04:07 |
| LjL | which was kind of your original sentiment, at least as it came through | 04:07 |
| berndj | what are those "bubble helmets" called that we see in footage of italian hospitals? what's the specific technology in use there? | 04:08 |
| ketas | lets do appropriate things | 04:08 |
| tinwhiskers | ketas: yes, lets not spread ideas that run counter to what the experts are saying just based on gut feel | 04:08 |
| berndj | LjL, i agree; if anything, shops should be subsidized or otherwise persuaded to stay open 24/7 to spread the traffic | 04:09 |
| tinwhiskers | agreed | 04:09 |
| ketas | which experts would you trust? | 04:09 |
| ketas | there's also that | 04:09 |
| tinwhiskers | more deliveries would be good, but in many places that's not feasible | 04:10 |
| LjL | berndj, they are CPAP helmets | 04:10 |
| ubLIX | I'd like that too, but the very large 24hr shops here in the UK are closing down to 10pm finish times; they say they need more time to restock the shelves | 04:10 |
| LjL | berndj, they are a "maybe adequate" substitute for ventilators for some people | 04:10 |
| tinwhiskers | ah. fair | 04:10 |
| LjL | ketas, i don't trust any experts, especially after looking at the WHO's blunders. | 04:10 |
| LjL | i look at data, and i reach my own conclusions. | 04:10 |
| LjL | the conclusions are grim. | 04:10 |
| berndj | LjL, oh, i thought CPAP was more into masks | 04:11 |
| Spec | LjL: CPAP helmets? | 04:11 |
| LjL | berndj, CPAP is an air provision technique, but then you can have various ways to provide it. i'm not exactly sure how the helmets are different from the masks. i've heard it feels like suffucating :\ | 04:11 |
| LjL | but i guess it's better than actually suffucating | 04:11 |
| LjL | Spec, yeah | 04:11 |
| LjL | Spec, it's something Italy has come up with to partly make up for the lack of ventilators | 04:11 |
| LjL | i mean, you could call it a type of ventilator i guess | 04:12 |
| Spec | not PAPR? | 04:12 |
| Spec | oh, they're for patients | 04:12 |
| pagetelegram | Here is my letter to the President and Congress: https://hand.is/congress/hr2646.png | 04:12 |
| LjL | they're consistently called CPAP her, i can tell you that much | 04:13 |
| LjL | yes, for COVID patients | 04:13 |
| LjL | who should be on ventilators but are milder than other patients who also need ventilators | 04:13 |
| LjL | so they don't get ventilators, and they get these "hoods" instead | 04:13 |
| LjL | Spec, i have some doubts as to whether Italy's healthcare as a whole deserves its mention as "second best in the world" | 04:14 |
| LjL | but Lombardy's healthcare is *good* | 04:14 |
| LjL | compared to many regions in the world, most of them | 04:14 |
| LjL | so expect many places to be trainwrecks | 04:14 |
| Spec | LjL: yes, that's what the numbers indicate would happen | 04:16 |
| Spec | and seem to be happening | 04:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | Shelter response in USA is at state level. | 04:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | Even county levels at times. | 04:16 |
| Spec | it is almost like -- not quite, but almost like numbers and stats can be used in predictive models to gauge outcomes | 04:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | Not sure what the federal government would do. | 04:16 |
| Spec | and that we should act on this information sooner rather than later, knowing the consequences | 04:16 |
| tinwhiskers | pagetelegram: do you want constructive criticism? | 04:17 |
| pagetelegram | yes please thank you | 04:18 |
| tinwhiskers | pagetelegram: PM? this is going to be brutal :-p | 04:18 |
| pagetelegram | sure as long as cordial :P | 04:19 |
| Spec | lol | 04:20 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: sometimes i have to do code reviews in this manner | 04:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:10 UTC: Australia coronavirus live updates: NSW closes Bondi Beach to enforce social distancing: Australia rolls out new social distancing rules as New Zealand reports its biggest single-day increase in positive tests to Covid-19. Follow the latest news β from WHO at 03:10: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 04:22 |
| LjL | Spec, do you think the government can restrict movement across state lines without a constitutional amendment, just using emergency powers? | 04:24 |
| Spec | LjL: i am unsure what our government can do (or just, will do), claiming emergency powers | 04:26 |
| LjL | Spec, yeah, there's also a difference between can and would. i am absolutely unconvinced that any of our emergency decrees would be judged constitutional by the constitutional court | 04:27 |
| LjL | but it doesn't matter a whole lot, since the president has signed them | 04:27 |
| LjL | constitutional court would take ages to review them | 04:27 |
| LjL | and probably take even longer than usual on purpose | 04:28 |
| LjL | the way italy works, the president has a duty to refrain from signing a law that he feels violates the constitution, so that's a "first line of defense" | 04:28 |
| Jigsy | >βNot talking to people is difficultβ: self-isolators share their stories | 04:28 |
| LjL | but this time... i'm pretty sure he just signed without thinking twice | 04:29 |
| Jigsy | ... | 04:29 |
| Jigsy | In the age of the Internet? | 04:29 |
| Jigsy | /:) | 04:29 |
| ketas | LjL: that's what i also do, i look overall picture and see it being threat and people will die because of it, but i also compare it to other things that cause deatha | 04:30 |
| ketas | tinwhiskers: yes, i could be quite "cold" person too | 04:30 |
| Spec | ketas: i'm not aware of too many global things that are causing exponential deaths currently | 04:30 |
| LjL | ketas, well, comparing it to flu is VERY misleading for MANY reasons (although you can sort of compare it to particularly bad flus like the Spanish flu, but still, not the same thing) | 04:31 |
| LjL | and just saying "it hasn't killed as many people as the flu yet" is... bordering on irresponsible. not even claiming you've said this, i've kind of lost track. just saying | 04:32 |
| ketas | irresponsible but not wrong? | 04:33 |
| LjL | well, yes, technically it's correct | 04:33 |
| LjL | but if you use it to claim there's less to worry about, then that's irresponsible | 04:34 |
| LjL | because we have an ability to project things in the future, and we really should be using it now | 04:34 |
| LjL | the flu, many people have some immunity to that, even though it changes every year | 04:34 |
| LjL | we also have somewhat effective vaccines for the people more at risk | 04:34 |
| ketas | correct & correct... but time will tell | 04:34 |
| LjL | it also doesn't have as high a death rate as COVID-19, *even if* you take the lowest conservative estimate for COVID, which is something like 0.5% | 04:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:23 UTC: Italy: Coronavirus live updates: Australia's Bondi Beach to close if 500-person limit breached, deaths jump in Spain and Italy β from WHO at 03:23: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/SrLj3D | 04:35 |
| LjL | flu tends to have 0.1% | 04:35 |
| LjL | time will tell, sure | 04:35 |
| LjL | but i'd rather make things better before "time tells" | 04:35 |
| ketas | covid deaths vary a lot | 04:35 |
| ketas | 0.4%, 10% | 04:35 |
| ketas | too many variables | 04:35 |
| ketas | it's too new | 04:35 |
| LjL | well, either of that is 1) higher than flu 2) much higher than flu when you consider it'll get the majority of the population, if left unchecked, because of complete lack of immunity | 04:35 |
| LjL | it's too new, so we should just instill "it's probably no worse than the flu" into people, when we have very good reasons to think it is? | 04:36 |
| LjL | if you think that, then i'd still go with "irresponsible" | 04:36 |
| ketas | but is is reasonable to behave 100x flu? | 04:36 |
| ketas | yet | 04:36 |
| LjL | yes | 04:36 |
| LjL | we know that at least 5% of patients become critical | 04:36 |
| LjL | we know that if we can't treat critical patients, they die | 04:37 |
| ketas | as a precaution? | 04:37 |
| LjL | we know that if we don't stop this, eventually it *does* get most people | 04:37 |
| LjL | as a precaution... what? | 04:37 |
| Spec | ketas: we have actual stats coming out of countries currently | 04:37 |
| Spec | overwhelmed healthcare systems, etc | 04:38 |
| Spec | flu doesn't do that, even in bad flu seasons (in recent history) | 04:38 |
| LjL | i reiterate: we KNOW that 5% of COVID-19 patients, at least, become critical. we KNOW that if we don't treat those critical patients, they DIE. we KNOW that we won't have enough resources to treat them, if we let this grow exponentially. | 04:38 |
| LjL | what else, really, do we need to know? | 04:38 |
| LjL | we are guaranteeing a minimum 5% death rate on minimum 50% or so of the population, if we just do nothing | 04:39 |
| LjL | and saying "flu kills more people" is basically leading people to thinking doing nothing is good. which is utterly irresponsible. | 04:39 |
| berndj | LjL, is that 5% of the true number of infections, or 5% of all infected who show any symptoms? | 04:39 |
| LjL | berndj, it includes some asymptomatics, but possibly not all of them | 04:40 |
| bin_bash | that's only in italy because it's got so few bed | 04:40 |
| bin_bash | s | 04:40 |
| bin_bash | and because the population is so ancient | 04:40 |
| LjL | but i think i've seen and discussed a number of good clues in this channel during the past days that asymptomatic people may not be all that prevalent | 04:40 |
| Spec | bin_bash: have you checked other curves and how they look compared to italy? (ie: US and Spain) | 04:40 |
| LjL | bin_bash, "ancient"? | 04:40 |
| Spec | LjL: ya'll're older on average | 04:40 |
| LjL | italy has more beds than most EU countries | 04:40 |
| LjL | despite having fewer beds than, say, Germany | 04:40 |
| LjL | how many beds do you think Estonia has? | 04:41 |
| LjL | Spec, yes, i'm aware of that. "ancient" doesn't sound like a great way to put that. | 04:41 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: 20 | 04:41 |
| berndj | my country has a whopping 1000 ICU beds :-/ | 04:41 |
| LjL | in any case, the 5% figure doesn't come from Italy, it comes from China | 04:41 |
| LjL | in Italy it's more like 10%, so... | 04:41 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: 15 | 04:41 |
| LjL | rajrajraj, ? | 04:42 |
| rajrajraj | Percent | 04:42 |
| ketas | we have some icu places | 04:42 |
| rajrajraj | Not 10 | 04:42 |
| ketas | not high | 04:42 |
| ketas | sadly if icu runs out, people die | 04:42 |
| LjL | actually, Estonia has more ICU beds than Italy, or at least did when this paper was written (2012) https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00134-012-2627-8/figures/1 | 04:43 |
| LjL | but not so considerably more | 04:43 |
| LjL | Germany has the most | 04:43 |
| LjL | but apparently, Germany has some problems with staffing them | 04:43 |
| LjL | also, Italy had 5000 when this started, but we are now at 8000 | 04:43 |
| LjL | the problem with adding more is we can't source ventilators, mainly, i think | 04:44 |
| LjL | but even Germany will eventually be overwhelmed, despite their 28000 ICU beds | 04:44 |
| LjL | simple maths would show that | 04:44 |
| LjL | they are doing decent for now | 04:44 |
| ketas | i might become sick, not get into icu and die, but if i stress over that, stress alone could cause health issues | 04:44 |
| LjL | doesn't mean it will continue when bed capacity is exceeded | 04:44 |
| LjL | ketas, well, don't stress then | 04:44 |
| LjL | but also don't tell people misleading things about what's going on | 04:45 |
| LjL | because that stresses ME, for a start | 04:45 |
| ketas | the idea was to avoid unneeded panic | 04:45 |
| LjL | panic is bad | 04:45 |
| LjL | fear is good | 04:45 |
| LjL | we need to fear this disease, because it is dangerous | 04:46 |
| ketas | that was my point! | 04:46 |
| LjL | well, you made it badly, at least at first | 04:46 |
| LjL | but i'm glad we agree | 04:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:39 UTC: Australia coronavirus live updates: NSW closes Bondi Beach to enforce social distancing: Australia rolls out new social distancing rules as number of positive cases nationally passes 1,000 and New Zealand reports its biggest single-day rise in confirmed cases of Covid-19. Follow the latest news [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 04:47 |
| berndj | ketas, spread toilet paper memes, but dissuade people from actually hoarding toilet paper | 04:47 |
| ketas | wtf is with tp anyway | 04:48 |
| ketas | even in hk | 04:48 |
| Spec | people in stressed situations act irrationally | 04:48 |
| Spec | especially when fighting an invisible disease | 04:48 |
| ketas | it's not that important! | 04:48 |
| [itchyjunk] | Seems to be a common dinominator purchase. | 04:48 |
| Spec | well it's not that rational! | 04:48 |
| berndj | ketas, i think it's partly that it's something cheap, that keeps well, that you really hate not having when you need it | 04:48 |
| [itchyjunk] | you buy cookies and toilet paper, i buy cake and toilet paper. | 04:48 |
| [itchyjunk] | We both buy toilet paper. | 04:48 |
| Spec | no | 04:48 |
| ketas | i would worry more about clogging sewers | 04:49 |
| Spec | i buy cookies and cake | 04:49 |
| ketas | feces = bad | 04:49 |
| LjL | i think a lot of that was just "thanks" to the internet tbh | 04:49 |
| [itchyjunk] | "stress purchase" doesn't explain scaresity of one and not the other | 04:49 |
| LjL | ketas, what sort of sewers do you have that toilet paper clogs them? O.o | 04:49 |
| ketas | i mean lack of water, electricity can do it | 04:49 |
| Spec | LjL: many sewer systems can't cope with toilet paper! | 04:50 |
| Spec | big problem in israel as i understand it, for example | 04:50 |
| ketas | people can vandalize in panic and cause utilities to fail too | 04:50 |
| LjL | Spec, i only knew about Korea. but maybe you had told me about Israel | 04:50 |
| [itchyjunk] | would have to see charts for all items that went scarce in future | 04:50 |
| bin_bash | bunch of morons have been flushing clorox wipes which are not at all flushable and causing huge clogs | 04:51 |
| LjL | ketas, why would we lack water or electricity? are we moving from "just a flu" to "world ends" now? | 04:51 |
| bin_bash | that and paper towels | 04:51 |
| bin_bash | LjL: actually the concern is that with a large portion of the population infected there may not be enough people to man the power/water stations all the time | 04:51 |
| bin_bash | idk if you know but those places are staffed 24/7 | 04:51 |
| LjL | bin_bash, yes, i can understand that concern, but not from someone who expects this not to even be a huge issue | 04:52 |
| LjL | it seems a bit inconsistent | 04:52 |
| berndj | they are staffed 24/7, but they don't consist of 1000 men in a hamster wheel | 04:52 |
| bin_bash | idk anyone who thinks the power is going to be shut down and that covid is not a big deal | 04:52 |
| ketas | LjL: i mean panic can indirectly cause civil unrest | 04:52 |
| LjL | ketas, you know what's something that causes panic? incorrect information, even when given with the best of intentions | 04:53 |
| LjL | when people realize it turns out to be false, they will not believe you anymore | 04:53 |
| berndj | bin_bash, in my country the power going down has recently been an ever-present threat. but it isn't directly related to covid-19 | 04:53 |
| LjL | and they will panic, thinking they cannot trust authorities when they tell them "there's toilet paper for everybody" | 04:53 |
| LjL | berndj, here the power going down has been a threat for a couple of summers while we were relying a bit too much on French electricity, and having too few plants of our own to power all the A/Cs :P so we had planned "rotation" outages | 04:54 |
| LjL | but it's not been an issue for some years now | 04:54 |
| ketas | LjL: sadly that's how crowds work | 04:54 |
| LjL | also we had that ridiculous country-wide black out once | 04:54 |
| Joe | thats a lie, we are completely out of toilet paper and the government is lying!! aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh | 04:54 |
| bin_bash | berndj: well i mean in developed countries | 04:55 |
| LjL | ketas, well it's not sad, it's just to be expected. so information should be accurate, even if some of it is unpleasant. | 04:55 |
| bin_bash | like the US | 04:55 |
| berndj | fair enough | 04:55 |
| LjL | not the best example of a developed country maybe, but yeah, fair enough | 04:55 |
| bin_bash | best not throw stones from glass houses, LjL | 04:56 |
| bin_bash | we have 30,000+ ICU beds | 04:56 |
| LjL | ... for how many citizens? | 04:56 |
| berndj | i'd say the biggest threat covid-19 poses to electric utility companies is decimating their credit control offices | 04:56 |
| bin_bash | iirc it was per 100l | 04:56 |
| bin_bash | 100k* or 1mil | 04:56 |
| berndj | the technical workers - not so much | 04:56 |
| bin_bash | but i'd have to go find the doc | 04:56 |
| LjL | you have 30000 ICU bed per 1 million or 100k citizens? | 04:56 |
| LjL | that's... just not true | 04:56 |
| ketas | LjL: yea i'm master of unplesantness, hence why i coldy compared those deaths | 04:57 |
| bin_bash | no, i misread it. it was 100k total | 04:57 |
| berndj | i wonder how exposed sewer workers are to sars-cov-2. there must be a lot of virus floating around in those pipes | 04:57 |
| ketas | it's time to walk alone now i guess | 04:57 |
| bin_bash | but the population is significantly younger. and if it was up to me, those morons partying down during spring break would be excluded from treatment | 04:57 |
| LjL | bin_bash, well, the population being significantly younger can partly be argued to be a point in favor of our healthcare system, since for that and other reasons, italians have one of the highest life expectancies in the world | 04:58 |
| ketas | LjL: but i hate how easy it is to cause panic :( | 04:59 |
| LjL | berndj, there's a lot of nasty stuff in the sewers, i expect that if they don't go fully protected, they'll catch *something* anyway | 04:59 |
| berndj | bin_bash, i facepalmed yesterday when i got some birthday party invite, and then some people started talking about how, if they did it at X private place instead of Y public place, it wouldn't be illegal | 04:59 |
| bin_bash | berndj: jfc people are retarded | 04:59 |
| Spec | berndj: sewer workers are, presumably, exposed to allll sorts of bad for you shit | 04:59 |
| ketas | Spec: hahaha | 04:59 |
| Spec | berndj: but yeah, ppe could be a problem | 04:59 |
| bin_bash | you see is all over south florida, texas, bama. these moronic kids partying in close quarters | 04:59 |
| bin_bash | they should all be culled | 05:00 |
| LjL | ketas, well, governments should certainly have sociologists and psychologists to help them make decisions and present them to the public in the best ways - not just doctors. but, instead, most governments are getting everything wrong. | 05:00 |
| Spec | LjL: i think that's just the olive oil tho | 05:00 |
| LjL | Spec, i think it's definitely a combination of factors | 05:00 |
| Spec | oh, the wine, too? | 05:01 |
| LjL | Spec, also, on a bleaker note, there are studies indicating that while our life expectancy has gone up (except in the past couple of years, a worrying downwards trend), our HEALTHY life expectancy has gone down | 05:01 |
| LjL | that is a worrisome indicator of quality of life | 05:01 |
| Spec | yeah | 05:01 |
| LjL | it is calculated in, well, ways | 05:01 |
| ketas | LjL: there is good article but you can't read it... it said don't put out messages too early, content may change and you crapped it all | 05:01 |
| LjL | ketas, an "as far as we know for the time being" generally can't hurt, i feel | 05:02 |
| LjL | why can't i read it? | 05:02 |
| ubLIX | ketas: that journal should fire its proofreaders | 05:02 |
| ketas | it's in estonian | 05:02 |
| LjL | the WHO has been giving WAY too many messages that sounded "certain"... when instead, they just didn't know things | 05:02 |
| ketas | :/ | 05:02 |
| LjL | ketas, google translate often does a decent job | 05:02 |
| LjL | despite rumors to the contrary | 05:02 |
| ketas | LjL: i would not do that | 05:03 |
| LjL | but also it's 5am | 05:03 |
| LjL | which is a more important reason not to read it now | 05:03 |
| ketas | it'a 06:03 here | 05:03 |
| ketas | LjL: if you want, https://www.err.ee/1065569/ilmar-raag-legend-kriisikommunikatsioonist | 05:03 |
| ketas | but translate might ruin it | 05:04 |
| LjL | "Federal Council recommendations: stay home, especially if you are 65 or older, or are sick. Go out only if you have to work, and cannot do it from home, or if you have to get groceries, go to a pharmacy, or assist someone else. The Federal Council, and Switzerland, are counting on you." | 05:04 |
| LjL | just heard (repeatedly) on swiss classical music radio, in between pieces | 05:04 |
| LjL | translated from italian | 05:04 |
| LjL | ketas, well, bad sleep doesn't help your immune system, just so you know. it doesn't help mine either, for sure. | 05:05 |
| ketas | em i slept during daytime | 05:06 |
| ketas | i also forget to eat | 05:06 |
| ubLIX | ketas: eat something | 05:07 |
| ketas | it's in the store! | 05:07 |
| ketas | well i still have some | 05:07 |
| LjL | apparently Google Translate invented the word "idealistly" | 05:08 |
| LjL | i'm pretty sure that's not a thing | 05:09 |
| ketas | hahaha | 05:09 |
| ketas | so now i ruined your sleep | 05:09 |
| ketas | well, i'll let you know, by my prolonged absence from freenode, if i die | 05:09 |
| LjL | "To make matters worse, the second feature of this crisis is that the main risk lies not in human deaths, but in derivative damage, where the economic cost of a pandemic is the most important. However, this is even more difficult to predict because we are now talking about forecasting." | 05:10 |
| LjL | i agree that this is difficult to predict | 05:10 |
| LjL | but i definitely disagree that it's the "main risk", as opposed to human deaths | 05:10 |
| LjL | it seems especially ludicruous to make that claim when admittedly it's difficult to predict what will happen to the economy | 05:10 |
| LjL | i predict it won't be good, i'll give you that | 05:10 |
| LjL | but i can predict human deaths sort of more accurately | 05:10 |
| LjL | and they'll be too many, if nothing or too little is done | 05:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:47 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live updates: NSW closes Bondi Beach to enforce social distancing: Australia rolls out new social distancing rules as number of people testing positive for Covid-19 nationally passes 1,000 and New Zealand reports its biggest single-day rise in cases. Follow the latest news [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 05:11 |
| ketas | well if you crap economy, it's bad | 05:11 |
| LjL | i don't see how millions (several, if nothing is done) of deaths can possibly *help* the economy | 05:12 |
| LjL | anyway, now i'll quit reading, it's too long and indeed the translation makes it at times too unclear | 05:12 |
| tinwhiskers | well, harsh as it may be, with the deaths so biased toward those receiving superannuation/pension there is some possibility of help the economy a little | 05:13 |
| tinwhiskers | *helping | 05:13 |
| Albright | tinwhiskers: That's a really heartbreaking way to look at things, but I was just about to say the same thing. | 05:14 |
| tinwhiskers | still, they mostly spend their pension, so I'm not sure that is the case anyway. | 05:14 |
| tinwhiskers | it may help the government coffers, but maybe not the economy itself | 05:15 |
| LjL | and yet, more than half the ICU patients in the NL are under 50. i may sound like a broken record, but this thing affects a LOT of younger people too. sure, it disproportionally affects the elderly, but when the healthcare system is overwhelmed, you can rest assured that 50%+ of people under 50 will die | 05:15 |
| tinwhiskers | yes | 05:15 |
| LjL | that's going to be a lot of "people who are worth something to the economy" | 05:15 |
| LjL | if we have to put it in the heartbreaking way | 05:15 |
| ubLIX | 50% of those under 50 who are hospitalised, do you mean? | 05:16 |
| tinwhiskers | err. no 50% of under 50's will not die when the healthcare system is overloaded | 05:16 |
| ryouma | that is a point that needs to be stressed | 05:16 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, what ubLIX said | 05:16 |
| ryouma | the usa did these "duck and cover" tv commercial. what are they doing now for staying indoors? | 05:16 |
| LjL | ubLIX, tinwhiskers: i said "more than half the ICU patients in the NL are under 50" | 05:17 |
| LjL | that's what i'm referring to | 05:17 |
| Albright | ryouma: The ones with the cartoon turtles? Those were actually played at schools to children. It was longer than a commercial. | 05:17 |
| LjL | if you are an ICU patient, it means, pretty much by definition, that without an ICU bed, you die | 05:18 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: ok | 05:18 |
| ubLIX | ah | 05:18 |
| tinwhiskers | yes | 05:18 |
| tinwhiskers | just one of your statements was a bit misleading, but I'm with you | 05:18 |
| ryouma | Albright: ok. newsreels, tv commercials, school movies. i got them mixed up i guess? | 05:18 |
| ketas | i mean, there was once some mass vandalism here, as a collateral damage, some menstruation pads were stolen by a guy, who also happened to be on very clear photo while doing it... quite wtf | 05:18 |
| ryouma | Albright: nevertheless my q stands | 05:18 |
| bin_bash | lol | 05:18 |
| LjL | and more than half of the ICU patients in the NL are under 50. now, there are two things to keep in mind: there are more people under 50 than people over 50 in the NL in general; and also, their chances of survival are much higher than the chances of the over 50 | 05:18 |
| LjL | but crucially, *if they can't get ICU beds*, then the chances become practically 0 for both groups | 05:19 |
| LjL | and there *won't* be enough ICU beds if we don't "flatten the curve" to enough of an extent | 05:19 |
| LjL | if "flattening the curve" in a slowing-down is utopia, then we need a full lockdown | 05:19 |
| LjL | a slowing-down way* | 05:19 |
| tinwhiskers | agreed | 05:19 |
| ketas | how far the lockdown must go? | 05:19 |
| ketas | shooting at people at home door? | 05:20 |
| tinwhiskers | South Korea, but probably not Wuhan | 05:20 |
| tinwhiskers | You don't go out for any reason except to get food. That should include all non-essential work as well. | 05:20 |
| ketas | sudden increase in medical demand is quite bad | 05:21 |
| LjL | it's pretty obvious how far the lockdown must go, without making silly hyperboles about shooting people | 05:21 |
| LjL | we must stay at home. all of us. except for medical workers, and workers that produce essential goods. we must get food delivered. if we can't pick and choose, then like in Wuhan, we must get pre-packaged groceries that we don't choose. | 05:22 |
| LjL | and trust me, i hate eating stuff i didn't choose | 05:22 |
| LjL | but i hate many people dying more | 05:22 |
| tinwhiskers | mmm | 05:22 |
| PlanckWalk | When you do go out you wear masks, have temp checks, change your clothes and wash when you get home. Everyone clean everything that might have been near anyone else. | 05:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:08 UTC: Collingwood AFL staff member tests positive for coronavirus: The club has confirmed a staff member at the AFL club has tested positive Staff member has not been in contact with players or staff since returning Collingwood have confirmed a staff member at the AFL club has tested positive for coronavirus. [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/dPcUR0 | 05:23 |
| tinwhiskers | well, we don't have masks available here so that's not an option, but yeah | 05:23 |
| ryouma | just as a note, some die if they eat the wrong food | 05:23 |
| ryouma | or get extremely sick | 05:23 |
| ketas | LjL: how i could get my food delivered if queues are full? | 05:24 |
| ketas | :/ | 05:24 |
| LjL | ketas, i don't understand that question | 05:25 |
| LjL | what has having it delivered got to do with the queues? | 05:25 |
| LjL | i'm precisely proposing *getting rid* of the queues by closing the physical shops, and doing deliveries *only* | 05:25 |
| ketas | delivery queue | 05:25 |
| ketas | it's full week wait if lucky | 05:26 |
| LjL | yes, obviously supermarkets should redirect their efforts AWAY from the physical store management and TOWARDS deliveries, to improve them substantially | 05:26 |
| LjL | i think i'm speaking english | 05:26 |
| LjL | and have been for a while | 05:26 |
| LjL | full week? | 05:26 |
| LjL | are you even serious? | 05:26 |
| LjL | it's 15 days here, and we must try to reach the website right after midnight to get a slot | 05:27 |
| ketas | delivery wait time is entire week | 05:27 |
| ketas | eh | 05:27 |
| LjL | ENTIRE week! | 05:27 |
| LjL | jesus | 05:27 |
| LjL | you're going to see what you'll be dealing with later | 05:27 |
| LjL | i'll sleep | 05:27 |
| ketas | week is system limit | 05:27 |
| ketas | actually | 05:27 |
| bin_bash | meanwhile, general mills will meet targers as their supply chain has not been interrupted | 05:27 |
| ketas | it might end up being 100d if allowed | 05:27 |
| ketas | it's not sane to allow 15d i guess | 05:28 |
| ubLIX | not so much allow, as cope with demand as quickly as possible. hand delivering food to tens of millions of people is a non trivial problem | 05:30 |
| LjL | ubLIX, it is, but so is allowing a limited amount of people into a supermarket while making sure the queues outside don't all infect each other | 05:30 |
| ubLIX | you're talking in your sleep, LjL :p | 05:31 |
| LjL | there's nothing particularly easy in this emergency | 05:31 |
| LjL | which is what it is, it's not people having fun making a big deal out of nothing | 05:31 |
| LjL | ubLIX, yes, i have sleep disorders | 05:31 |
| LjL | but don't worry, i say pretty much the same thing as when i'm awake | 05:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:30 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live updates: NSW closes Bondi Beach to enforce social distancing: Australia rolls out new social distancing rules as number of people testing positive for Covid-19 nationally passes 1,000 and New Zealand reports its biggest single-day rise in cases. Follow the latest news [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 05:35 |
| ubLIX | "Isolation and characterization of a bat SARS-like coronavirus that uses the ACE2 receptor", Nature, 2013, doi.org/10.1038/nature12711, from abstract: "They also highlight the importance of pathogen-discovery programs targeting high-risk wildlife groups in emerging disease hotspots as a strategy for pandemic preparedness." - https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12711 | 05:44 |
| Spec | LjL: so are like, grocery delivery service companies hiring? | 05:46 |
| bin_bash | in the US they all are | 05:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:41 UTC: Singapore reports first two deaths linked to coronavirus: Singapore has been lauded globally for its approach in managing the outbreak, with no fatalities before Saturday even as deaths have surged elsewhere in Asia and worldwide. β from WHO at 04:41: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/6P2JQT | 05:47 |
| ryouma | perhaps tp can be used to make ppe? | 05:50 |
| Albright | Was looking up recipes for making hand sanitizer gel. Some of them are as simple as "one part aloe vera gel to two parts high-purity isopropyl alcohol plus some essential oil if you want it to smell good." (Or maybe vice-versa on the proportions.) Anyone know if that's legit? | 05:52 |
| bin_bash | Albright: what do you need hand sanitizer for | 05:52 |
| ubLIX | that seems like an odd question, bin_bash | 05:57 |
| fructose | ubLIX: That's a weird thing to say | 05:58 |
| bin_bash | not really ubLIX. most people dont need hand sanitizer as soap and water are much better at actually cleaning your hands. | 05:58 |
| bin_bash | the reason i'm asking is because the use-case matters. | 05:58 |
| fructose | bin_bash: You ruined it | 05:58 |
| ubLIX | well, i suppose, since we're not suppose to be leaving home and all | 05:58 |
| Albright | bin_bash: You're not wrong but, for example, today I went to the bank drive-through and used one of those air tube canisters that God knows how many other people had touched. | 05:59 |
| ubLIX | fructose: what was weird about it, friendo? | 05:59 |
| Albright | And the bank is like three miles away from home. | 05:59 |
| pagetelegram | Fax sent to Trump organization, key senate members that were cosigners of hr 2646 and FEMA legislative branch as well as Department of Human Services. | 06:00 |
| ryouma | what is high purity? is water an impurity? | 06:00 |
| bin_bash | 99% IPA would be considered high purity | 06:00 |
| Albright | ryouma: It would be in this case. "High-purity" is probably the wrong phrase but I'm guessing you know what I meant. :P | 06:01 |
| ryouma | ok | 06:01 |
| ryouma | ipa? | 06:01 |
| Albright | High-grain? Does that apply to alcohol not meant to be drank? | 06:01 |
| bin_bash | isopropanol | 06:02 |
| Albright | High-proof? | 06:02 |
| ryouma | high alcohol content | 06:02 |
| ryouma | but is that 90 91 99 percent dunno if defined | 06:02 |
| Albright | ANYWAY. Anyone know if those recipes are legit? | 06:03 |
| ryouma | who has one i think | 06:03 |
| bin_bash | Albright: you'd have to link to a specific recipe. | 06:03 |
| Albright | Ha. It was pretty much what I said above, but let me find one again. | 06:04 |
| ryouma | afk | 06:04 |
| ryouma | (meaning good night) | 06:04 |
| Albright | https://www.thespruce.com/make-your-own-homemade-hand-sanitizer-606145 | 06:04 |
| bin_bash | i cant say for sure if 1part aloe 2 part high purity alcohol is correct, it could be reverse so i want to see what things say | 06:05 |
| bin_bash | well this article didn't start off very well... | 06:05 |
| Albright | I barely read it and just skipped down to the ingredients. | 06:05 |
| bin_bash | do you have 99% ipa Albright | 06:05 |
| Albright | bin_bash: Not currently. I have some expired 90%. | 06:06 |
| bin_bash | hm probably not idea | 06:06 |
| bin_bash | idesal* | 06:06 |
| Albright | But I also have a good amount of leftover commercial sanitizer so I'm not planning on doing this just yet. | 06:06 |
| ketas | use ipa in 70% solution | 06:07 |
| bin_bash | i think i'd follow this one: https://www.healthline.com/health/how-to-make-hand-sanitizer | 06:07 |
| bin_bash | 3 parts 99% ipa to 1 part aloe vera gel + tea tree oil or lemon oil or something | 06:08 |
| Albright | It's probably runnier⦠| 06:08 |
| bin_bash | I like the WHO one at the bottom | 06:08 |
| Albright | I saw some recipes which called for vegetable glycerin instead of aloe. | 06:08 |
| ketas | i have 100% ipa in 200ml spray can, for electronics purpose | 06:08 |
| bin_bash | the thing is you have to be really careful about doing it properly | 06:09 |
| ketas | sadly i didn't get 5l | 06:09 |
| euod[m] | tea tree oil is sort of unfortunate. | 06:09 |
| Albright | Glycerin seems to be what they use in the commercial stuff | 06:09 |
| ketas | i mean before virus, it's nice cleaner | 06:09 |
| euod[m] | it's a good antibiotic, but strongly estrogenic. | 06:09 |
| euod[m] | https://factor.niehs.nih.gov/2019/9/feature/3-feature-lavender/index.htm | 06:10 |
| euod[m] | βIt is important that physicians are aware that lavender oil and tea tree oil possess endocrine-disrupting activities, and although the effects we saw are very rare, such oils should be considered when evaluating unexplained early breast development in girls and gynecomastia in boys and adult men,β | 06:10 |
| bin_bash | interesting | 06:11 |
| Albright | euod[m]: Ha. Well, I'd imagine the amounts we're talking about here aren't enough to cause gynecomastia. | 06:12 |
| euod[m] | <Albright "euod: Ha. Well, I'd imagine the "> I'd still not casually use it in anything, given it has known negative effects. | 06:12 |
| ketas | makes you girlq'y | 06:12 |
| ketas | girly :) | 06:12 |
| euod[m] | well if it has enough of an impact to cause visible breast development, you can be sure it's causing other negative effects. | 06:13 |
| ketas | i've long wanted to have vag | 06:14 |
| Albright | I suggest not making such decisions lightly. | 06:15 |
| ubLIX | ketas... | 06:15 |
| ubLIX | gn.gl | 06:15 |
| ketas | just to try it out! | 06:16 |
| euod[m] | <Albright "I suggest not making such decisi"> if you have alcohol and you're just adding tea tree oil for extra points, maybe don't. that's all I'm saying. alcohol is very effective on its own. | 06:16 |
| Albright | euod[m]: No, the essential oils are just to make it smell purdy. | 06:17 |
| euod[m] | alright, then you can skip it entirely :) | 06:17 |
| Albright | Technically, yes. | 06:17 |
| Albright | But something that doesn't smell like alcohol might be nice. | 06:17 |
| ketas | add glycerin | 06:18 |
| euod[m] | eh, everything will smell like alcohol and taste like bitterant for the forseeable future. get used to it. | 06:18 |
| Albright | :( | 06:18 |
| Albright | Better alcohol than bleach I suppose. | 06:18 |
| ketas | better bleach than death | 06:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:45 UTC: Singapore reports first two deaths linked to coronavirus: Singapore has been lauded globally for its approach in managing the outbreak, with no fatalities before Saturday even as deaths have surged elsewhere in Asia and worldwide. β from WHO at 05:45: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/6P2JQT | 06:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:00 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports its first two deaths, Italy locks down further β from WHO at 06:00: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/xo08SF | 07:07 |
| adventurer | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15811049 | 07:21 |
| dividediff[m] | <ryouma "who was it here who was writing "> not me | 07:28 |
| dividediff[m] | What stays airborne for 3 hrs? Does that mean i can walk into an elevator 2.9 hrs later, take a breath and then boom i'm sick? | 07:30 |
| dividediff[m] | (Assuming someone sick was in teh elevator 2.9 hrs ago) | 07:31 |
| Joe | airborne vs surface time | 07:32 |
| Joe | wash your hands | 07:32 |
| adventurer | have you got a source about that dividediff[m] ? | 07:32 |
| adventurer | reference? | 07:32 |
| dividediff[m] | adventurer: The numbers change news paper to news paper, but heres one: | 07:33 |
| dividediff[m] | https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-could-live-air-hours-surfaces-days-study-suggests/ | 07:33 |
| dividediff[m] | The researchers also found that disease particles can live for up to four hours on copper, 24 hours on cardboard and two to three days on plastic and stainless steel. | 07:34 |
| Joe | there is some scary report out about the hang time of exporated molecules... adventurer chill on that as a data point IMO | 07:34 |
| Albright | Isn't copper supposed to be antimicrobal? | 07:34 |
| adventurer | thanks | 07:34 |
| Albright | s/antimicrobal/antimicrobial/ | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | Albright meant to say: Isn't copper supposed to be antimicrobial? | 07:35 |
| adventurer | https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-lives-for-hours-in-air-particles-and-days-on-surfaces-new-us-study-shows.html | 07:35 |
| dividediff[m] | adventurer: the relevant part "HCoV-19 remained viable in aerosols throughout the duration of our experiment (3 hours) " | 07:35 |
| Joe | dividediff[m]: i've read upto 9 days and beyond... on hard surface, right now noone know nothing and worse case rules the day. RELAX 80%+ chance you get the sneezles for two days. | 07:36 |
| dividediff[m] | Albright: yea, thats why it doesn't last as long on copper as stainless steel | 07:36 |
| dividediff[m] | Joe: yea | 07:36 |
| Albright | Ah, hmm. | 07:36 |
| dividediff[m] | Joe: Less say i hear someone coughing in an elevator but they get off. Should i take teh stairs? | 07:36 |
| dividediff[m] | Lets = less** | 07:36 |
| dividediff[m] | Joe: If i want to play it safe | 07:37 |
| adventurer | maybe explain how fast it spreads | 07:37 |
| Joe | you tell me, what is universal precautions? | 07:37 |
| Joe | no it's spreading so fast because testing is spreading fast.... | 07:37 |
| dividediff[m] | Joe: wash your hands | 07:38 |
| Joe | ya no kidding!!!!!! | 07:38 |
| dividediff[m] | adventurer: i've heard reasons like air hang time is why measles is good at spreading | 07:38 |
| adventurer | Joe, so you think it's already everywhere | 07:38 |
| adventurer | it's a tiny little virus isn't it compared to flu?? in size?? | 07:39 |
| Joe | it is | 07:39 |
| dividediff[m] | adventurer: covid has like a 2-14 day incubation period, so it's often difficult to find. Some country have 0 cases still | 07:39 |
| Joe | it has a higher com rate (r0) and a higher mortality rate.... | 07:40 |
| Joe | but it aint MERS | 07:40 |
| Joe | or worse | 07:40 |
| Joe | where name one place with a zero???? | 07:40 |
| Joe | dividediff[m]: back that up... where is there a zero??? | 07:41 |
| dividediff[m] | cases! madagascar | 07:41 |
| Joe | waiting.... o think they have 6 | 07:42 |
| dividediff[m] | cases! tonga | 07:42 |
| Joe | 2 | 07:42 |
| Joe | and spreading | 07:42 |
| dividediff[m] | The cmds aren't working? | 07:43 |
| dividediff[m] | cases! france | 07:43 |
| Joe | we are testing for the common cold with a higher mortality rate. | 07:43 |
| Joe | it's everywhere | 07:43 |
| dividediff[m] | Joe: you're saying madagascar and tonga have cases now? | 07:44 |
| Joe | ya they do | 07:44 |
| dividediff[m] | Joe: i see on worldometer madagascar having 3 cases. It has no data on tonga. Cite for tonga? | 07:45 |
| Joe | https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/410994/coronavirus-4-in-isolation-in-fiji-1-suspected-case-in-tonga | 07:46 |
| Joe | i'm not Don Quixote, i'm only saying what i've researched. | 07:47 |
| tinwhiskers | There are no cases in Tonga yet | 07:47 |
| Joe | did they clear it tinwhiskers ?? | 07:47 |
| dividediff[m] | Joe: It's only a suspected case but yea. I guess assuming 50% it's corona, then yea they have 0.5 cases | 07:47 |
| Joe | lol | 07:48 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, no. It'll takje a week or so to get the tests to NZ or Aus to be processed | 07:48 |
| Joe | yes let all go invade tonga | 07:48 |
| Joe | that won't give them cases | 07:48 |
| tinwhiskers | We're in a state of emergency now. Borders are closed I'm afraid :-) | 07:48 |
| Joe | and well you should | 07:48 |
| dividediff[m] | Tinwhisker is on an island with like 5 ppl so at very least his/her island is fine h | 07:49 |
| Joe | if you have zero | 07:49 |
| dividediff[m] | ha** | 07:49 |
| tinwhiskers | So I've been trying to go fishing from my kayak instead of motoring around in the boat | 07:49 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: Is it 5 ppl total incling you? | 07:49 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 07:49 |
| dividediff[m] | how big is the island? | 07:49 |
| Joe | 100k isn't 5 | 07:49 |
| tinwhiskers | 25 acres | 07:49 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, there's like 150 islands or some such in Tonga, mostly up here in Vava'u | 07:50 |
| tinwhiskers | Many are uninhabited but they are rather inaccessible | 07:50 |
| tinwhiskers | This one is handy, only 1.5km by boat from the mainland of Vava'u | 07:51 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: *looking up how big 25 acres is* | 07:51 |
| tinwhiskers | 10 hectares | 07:51 |
| Joe | its the same siz as my back lot | 07:51 |
| Joe | with zero people on it | 07:51 |
| tinwhiskers | Vava'u mainland has about 15,000 people. It's 300 km north of the island where the capital is in Tongatapu. | 07:52 |
| tinwhiskers | And we have two suspected cases in Vava'u | 07:52 |
| Joe | if it was NYC 25 acres is like 500k people | 07:52 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: thats 12.5 football fields | 07:52 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, not huge :-) | 07:52 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: are you 5 all friends? | 07:53 |
| tinwhiskers | not really :-/ | 07:53 |
| dividediff[m] | Too bad. If things get bad you could film a season of survivor there where you guys vote someone of the island ha | 07:53 |
| tinwhiskers | There's one fucking nutter. He's harmless but I have nothing to do with him because I can't talk to him without wanting to slap him | 07:53 |
| Zalyssa | hide bats in his roof | 07:54 |
| tinwhiskers | and he has a tongan girlfriend who is nice but never says a word | 07:54 |
| dividediff[m] | lool | 07:54 |
| dividediff[m] | You know who you're voting off already i see haha | 07:54 |
| tinwhiskers | then there's a tongan local who is growing a garden on the island. Kava mostly. He's pretty awesome but the language barrier is a thing | 07:55 |
| dividediff[m] | kava | ΛkΙΛvΙ | | 07:56 |
| dividediff[m] | noun | 07:56 |
| dividediff[m] | 1 [mass noun] a narcotic sedative drink made in Polynesia from the crushed roots of a plant of the pepper family. | 07:56 |
| dividediff[m] | I think i've heard of kava | 07:56 |
| tinwhiskers | Apparently one season of survivor was filmed on an island I can see from my window, but I haven't seen the show | 07:56 |
| dividediff[m] | Cutting the gf's hair | 07:57 |
| tinwhiskers | lols | 07:58 |
| dividediff[m] | im | 07:58 |
| tinwhiskers | how's that going? | 07:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:48 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live updates: NSW closes Bondi beach to enforce social distancing: Australia rolls out new social distancing rules as number of people testing positive for Covid-19 nationally passes 1,000 and New Zealand reports its biggest single-day rise in cases. Follow the latest news [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 08:08 |
| mandiblegrip | Perhaps I'm late to the party, but isn't The Guardian an English newspaper? It seems that all the Guardian stuff is about Australia now. | 08:18 |
| tinwhiskers | You are correct | 08:18 |
| mandiblegrip | So they just... cover Australian stuff more now? Maybe it's just confirmation bias that I seem to always see it reporting on Australian matters? | 08:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:10 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports its first two deaths, Italy locks down further β from WHO at 07:10: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/xo08SF | 08:20 |
| Albright | Oh God, this celebrity rendition of "Imagine" | 08:23 |
| Albright | I am just now discovering this | 08:23 |
| Albright | First off it's a shitty song in the first place because it's basically "imagine there's no human civilization" | 08:24 |
| Albright | But CELEBRITIES singing this song about not having possessionsβ¦Β okay then. | 08:25 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: alright, 2nd time evr doing it | 08:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:20 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live updates: NSW closes Bondi beach to enforce social distancing: Australia rolls out new social distancing rules as number of people testing positive for Covid-19 nationally passes 1,000 and New Zealand reports its biggest single-day rise in cases. Follow the latest news [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 08:32 |
| sandro_ | %data germany | 08:35 |
| Brainstorm | ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'ao' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 96, in covid) | 08:35 |
| sandro_ | %data usa | 08:35 |
| Brainstorm | ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'ao' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 96, in covid) | 08:35 |
| dividediff[m] | another source says corona airborne for 30mins | 08:36 |
| darsie | LjL: Brainstorm is broken. | 08:36 |
| dividediff[m] | The virus does not linger in the air at high enough levels to be a risk to most people who are not physically near an infected person. | 08:36 |
| dividediff[m] | darsie: cov bot is broken too i think | 08:37 |
| dividediff[m] | cases! germany | 08:37 |
| dividediff[m] | case! germany | 08:37 |
| dividediff[m] | !cases germany | 08:37 |
| CovBot | Something went wrong fetching the latest data so stats may be outdated. | 08:37 |
| CovBot | In Germany there have been a total of 19,848 cases as of 2020-03-21 02:13:31 UTC. Of these 19,600 (98.8%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 180 (0.9%) have definitely recovered and 68 (0.3%) have died. | 08:37 |
| darsie | CovBot doesn't have a cloak telling who the owner is. | 08:37 |
| dividediff[m] | darsie: nvm! | 08:37 |
| dividediff[m] | cases! canada | 08:38 |
| darsie | https://offloop.net/covid19/ still works | 08:38 |
| dividediff[m] | darsie: do you know how to use cov bot? I thouht it was cases ! country | 08:38 |
| darsie | no | 08:38 |
| dividediff[m] | !cases canada | 08:39 |
| CovBot | Something went wrong fetching the latest data so stats may be outdated. | 08:39 |
| dividediff[m] | okay it's ! case country | 08:39 |
| CovBot | In Canada there have been a total of 1,087 cases as of 2020-03-21 02:42:00 UTC. Of these 1,061 (97.6%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 14 (1.3%) have definitely recovered and 12 (1.1%) have died. | 08:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:37 UTC: Coronavirus: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak β from WHO at 07:37: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/V2WKFN | 08:44 |
| dividediff[m] | How infectious is corona? Like will 1 virus cause covid, or is it like 100 viruses to cause covid? | 08:45 |
| Nokaji | currently, each covid victim infects 3 more ppl | 08:46 |
| ketas | that's not the answer | 08:47 |
| Nokaji | ketas: in that case, 'you' are our only hope - go for it | 08:49 |
| ketas | i don't know that answer :/ | 08:51 |
| adventurer | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjqD_9ScTlA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR15Pkkn2Oh8ZvcAupbxs794AmPvCNDY2UsLeTAVL60UdNByJiu6cmrERqU | 08:54 |
| Joe | that's not true | 08:55 |
| Joe | its 1:2.5 and yes that matters | 08:55 |
| Joe | stop rounding up on the global scale | 08:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:42 UTC: (news): UK PM Boris Johnson announces nationwide lockdown measures, telling cafes, pubs and restaurants to close β from WHO at 07:42: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/4rAJVx | 08:56 |
| ketas | the question was how many actual viruses will it take to "get it", that would be actually really good info | 08:57 |
| Nokaji | it's 2~3, before modulation .... | 08:58 |
| Nokaji | it takes one virus ... nCov19 | 08:58 |
| tinwhiskers | %data germany | 08:59 |
| Brainstorm | ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'ao' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 96, in covid) | 08:59 |
| ketas | eh | 08:59 |
| pingveno[m] | %data oregon | 09:00 |
| Brainstorm | ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'ao' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 96, in covid) | 09:00 |
| tinwhiskers | Normally when that happens it's my fault, but I can't see anything obvious that is wrong this time. | 09:03 |
| dividediff[m] | You know those 'how many humans will it to to screw in a light bulb? Just 1 human' jokes? | 09:05 |
| dividediff[m] | I mean how many individual corona viruses will it take to infect a person. | 09:05 |
| dividediff[m] | 1 corona virus = 1 infection? Or 100 corona virus to make 1 infection? (Or can our immune system kill 1) | 09:05 |
| dividediff[m] | Is there a term for an individual corona virus? | 09:06 |
| dividediff[m] | !cases vatican | 09:08 |
| Nokaji | there is some suggestion (or stronger) that we can cope far better with a low dose, as it gives our immune system more time to respond | 09:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:03 UTC: Singapore reports first two deaths linked to coronavirus: Singapore has been lauded globally for its approach in managing the outbreak, with no fatalities before Saturday even as deaths have surged elsewhere in Asia and worldwide. β from WHO at 08:03: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/6P2JQT | 09:09 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: at very least that happens with some other viruses | 09:09 |
| Nokaji | precisely | 09:09 |
| Nokaji | this is ofc 'novel', so we are still learning its details | 09:10 |
| Nokaji | so much we still don't know about it | 09:10 |
| dividediff[m] | Sars isn't similar enough that we can make assumption covid-19? | 09:11 |
| dividediff[m] | about covid** | 09:11 |
| Nokaji | depends on the assumption - I'd say use it mainly as a guide | 09:12 |
| Nokaji | until verified | 09:12 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: they're different species from the other? | 09:13 |
| Nokaji | not sure I want to try answering that - it's a bit too technical | 09:13 |
| tinwhiskers | Species isn't really a word that applies to viruses because members of the same species are capable of sexual reproduction. | 09:17 |
| ketas | little coronas having sex | 09:19 |
| Joe | that's cornitas | 09:19 |
| CovBot | Something went wrong fetching the latest data so stats may be outdated. | 09:21 |
| CovBot | I have searched my data but cannot find a match for vatican. It might be under a different name or there may be no cases! If I am wrong let @pwr22:shortestpath.dev know. | 09:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:08 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports its first two deaths, Italy locks down further β from WHO at 08:08: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/xo08SF | 09:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Ok, well apparently "species" is valid for viruses | 09:21 |
| ketas | those little guys! | 09:21 |
| ketas | actually this is somewhat interesting topic | 09:22 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: tinwhiskers ty | 09:27 |
| darsie | tinwhiskers: There are lots of species that do not use sex for reproduction. Like bacteria. Unless you count their gene/DNA exchange as sex. | 09:31 |
| ketas | darsie is also herr | 09:33 |
| ketas | e | 09:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:20 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live updates: all of Sydneyβs eastern beaches to close on Sunday to enforce social distancing: Australia rolls out new social distancing rules as number of people testing positive for Covid-19 nationally passes 1,000 and New Zealand reports its biggest single-day rise in cases. Follow the latest news β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 09:33 |
| tinwhiskers | I also don't use sex for reproduction | 09:33 |
| dividediff[m] | lmaoo | 09:33 |
| Joe | I also don't use sex for reproduction???? | 09:34 |
| darsie | She does it for fun. | 09:34 |
| Joe | wut????? | 09:34 |
| dividediff[m] | Joe: joking | 09:34 |
| Joe | but but what do i do with these 7 kids??? | 09:34 |
| ketas | tinwhiskers: hahaha | 09:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Obviously that's a joke. I'm married. | 09:35 |
| ketas | i've also never had sex on that purpose | 09:35 |
| darsie | You have, unconsciously. | 09:35 |
| ketas | yes | 09:35 |
| ketas | biology! | 09:36 |
| Joe | i've had sex everytime on purpose, except that one time in band camp | 09:36 |
| ketas | btw, we have this page: https://koroonakaart.ee/ | 09:36 |
| ketas | has english version as well | 09:36 |
| darsie | Are there other animals that understand they have sex for reproduction? Other than humans? | 09:36 |
| ketas | no idea | 09:36 |
| darsie | Maybe dolphins. | 09:36 |
| ketas | maybe | 09:37 |
| tinwhiskers | If I recall correctly dolphins are dirty bastards | 09:37 |
| darsie | for sure | 09:37 |
| ketas | i bet all have because they want | 09:37 |
| darsie | They have sex for fun and even coerce it. | 09:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Really I'm just jealous | 09:38 |
| ketas | there's reproductive reason why it's fun | 09:38 |
| darsie | Not so funny for female cats. | 09:38 |
| tinwhiskers | Or female ducks. They have quite the gang bangs. | 09:39 |
| ketas | why? | 09:39 |
| ketas | eh | 09:39 |
| darsie | It hurts. | 09:39 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh | 09:39 |
| dividediff[m] | or female honey badgers (srsly) | 09:39 |
| tinwhiskers | Umm, darsie, you're not meant to be having sex with your cat. It's no wonder it hurts. | 09:39 |
| ketas | honey! badger badger badger | 09:40 |
| darsie | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Ujd7RDg9g Very loud screams! | 09:40 |
| dividediff[m] | here i was thinking that the sound female cats make were them orgasming | 09:40 |
| tinwhiskers | ... pass | 09:40 |
| ketas | tinwhiskers, you son of a rohs | 09:40 |
| dividediff[m] | rohs = rotten oranges heat soup | 09:41 |
| ketas | do they meow? | 09:41 |
| tinwhiskers | Anyway, bedtime. Someone wants me up when this is all over. It'll be fine tomorrow, right? | 09:41 |
| tinwhiskers | *wake me up | 09:42 |
| Nokaji | I have a question - I'm looking for some indication as to how nCov or the nearest things to it (flu?) spread,- specifically what is the ration of it spreading by touching things compared to breathing it in? | 09:42 |
| dividediff[m] | gn | 09:42 |
| Nokaji | nite... | 09:42 |
| ketas | avicii - wake me up? | 09:42 |
| dividediff[m] | ketas: nce | 09:42 |
| ketas | :) | 09:43 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: if nobody answers, i'll answer in like 10mins | 09:43 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: i'm suppose to be doing smthg else ha | 09:43 |
| Nokaji | kie - I'll take what I can get on that one | 09:43 |
| darsie | Nokaji: An expert on TV said spread via 'surfaces' is not that bad for cv. | 09:43 |
| Nokaji | darsie: they do seem to overemphasise it and ignore breathing it in (e.g. wash hands - don't bother with a mask) | 09:44 |
| darsie | Masks may be inefficient. | 09:44 |
| Nokaji | plus, hand control is almost impossible | 09:44 |
| darsie | Or make them unavailable to ppl who need them more. | 09:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:42 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Buongiorno a tutti, mentre eravate via β from WHO at 08:42: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/bUggSP | 09:45 |
| Nokaji | a mask can limit dose or filtr it out entirely - masks are ofc technical kit and require training | 09:45 |
| darsie | My WW2 gas mask tore when I tried to put it on recently. | 09:46 |
| ketas | ow | 09:46 |
| darsie | I dumped it rather than fixing it. | 09:47 |
| ketas | bonus if you go out with it | 09:47 |
| Nokaji | when you go shoping, all the items are potentially infected, as are the bags and the money and receipts - you may wash your hands but then you have to rehandle all of those when you get home ... plus you'veput stuff on infected checkout counters etc ... evenyour handwash you handled with infected hands | 09:47 |
| ketas | someone here did | 09:47 |
| ketas | way to get famous | 09:47 |
| Nokaji | and then put in your pocket or bag, infecting it | 09:47 |
| ketas | in fact i do have them, but unsure if rubber still flexes | 09:47 |
| Nokaji | mask is far simpler | 09:48 |
| ketas | the washing helps to lower count | 09:48 |
| Nokaji | Imay switch to disposable gloves, as hand gel is a joke | 09:48 |
| ketas | it's not really before surgery scrub | 09:48 |
| Nokaji | and meanwhile, we are sat in queues , breathing it alll in | 09:49 |
| darsie | gloves may get your hands damp etc. | 09:49 |
| darsie | Wuhan health care workes got skin problems from protective gear. | 09:50 |
| Nokaji | is that a problem? | 09:50 |
| ketas | you may damage the skin from overdoing | 09:50 |
| Nokaji | oh ... don't use latex gloves | 09:50 |
| ketas | shops i prefer do have self scanning but with their equipment sadly | 09:50 |
| ketas | not my phone | 09:51 |
| Nokaji | you only need them in a shop, so for minutes at a time, half hour max | 09:51 |
| ketas | byod would be cute | 09:51 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: anyone take a stab at your question? | 09:51 |
| Nokaji | dividediff[m]: yes but rom for more replies, pls | 09:52 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: you were asking why virus evolved to survive on surfaces right? | 09:52 |
| Nokaji | nope - ... | 09:53 |
| ketas | tell me if you find early study on virus concentration needed to infect | 09:53 |
| Nokaji | I asking about vecotrs of transmission ... surfaces compared to breathing it in | 09:53 |
| Nokaji | vectors* | 09:53 |
| Nokaji | which is the greatest risk, or whatever you have as a comparison | 09:53 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: oh i misunderstood from ealier *scrolls up* | 09:54 |
| Nokaji | dividediff[m]: bcz all the emphasis is on washing hands and NOT wearing face masks | 09:54 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: i think that surface infect fewer ppl than airborne transmission | 09:54 |
| Nokaji | my life is at stake _ I can't rely on dubious propaganda from the govt | 09:55 |
| dividediff[m] | i think the only reason teh govs say don't use masks is bc the govs don't have enough masks | 09:55 |
| ketas | keep calm and walk on | 09:55 |
| darsie | I wonder why viruses break at all outside their hosts. UV ok, but just from drying out? Is it oxygen? | 09:55 |
| Nokaji | dividediff[m]: That's similar to what darsie said ... and I'm inclined to agree | 09:55 |
| dividediff[m] | yea i know right, it's like they were running a misinformation campaign against mask use | 09:55 |
| ketas | darsie: they dry out? | 09:55 |
| ketas | oh | 09:55 |
| Nokaji | dividediff[m]: I concur but they could suggest using a scarf over mouth | 09:55 |
| darsie | ketas: Dunno. Do they even have water in them? | 09:56 |
| ketas | darsie: how do they live then... | 09:56 |
| darsie | They don't live. | 09:56 |
| ketas | without water | 09:56 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: specifically i read that surgical masks only prevent the coughing/sneezing/etc of viral droplets | 09:56 |
| Nokaji | they (england) also wanted to build herd immunity, which relies on loads of becoming becoming sick | 09:56 |
| darsie | They passively float around waiting to get contact with cells. | 09:56 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: but that n95-n100 masks can block corona from even being breath in | 09:57 |
| ketas | yea luckily they don't run on streets with tiny feet | 09:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:44 UTC: Singapore reports first two deaths linked to coronavirus: Singapore has been lauded globally for its approach in managing the outbreak, with no fatalities before Saturday even as deaths have surged elsewhere in Asia and worldwide. β from WHO at 08:44: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/6P2JQT | 09:57 |
| darsie | But amino acids/DNA are polar, so I can imagine water molecules to stick to them when virions are formed. | 09:57 |
| darsie | Or RNA | 09:58 |
| Nokaji | dividediff[m]: that's why I say masks are a technical issue - they require a lot of study to understand how they work, which work best, how to use them, their beefits and effects on the virus | 09:58 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: i also think gloves are better than washing, depending on how sweaty one gets | 09:59 |
| dividediff[m] | Anyone know if we could put antiperspirant on hands/feet to reduce sweating? | 09:59 |
| Nokaji | I bought a nbox of nitrile disposable gloves .. they are fairly cheap | 09:59 |
| Nokaji | box* | 09:59 |
| darsie | Aluminium in antipersipirants may be harmful. Is linked to breast cancer. | 09:59 |
| dividediff[m] | darsie: there is ozone naturally evy where in trace amounts, so that might do it | 09:59 |
| Nokaji | antiperspirant isn't good for you | 10:00 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: laxtex alergy? | 10:00 |
| ketas | any virologists here? | 10:00 |
| Nokaji | yup ... can be developed after prolonged use ... nitrile is safer | 10:00 |
| dividediff[m] | I've haerd there are is a lot of concern about aluminum, but i heard many concerns are superstitions | 10:00 |
| Nokaji | antiperspirant blocks your body's natural function of sweating = bad | 10:01 |
| Nokaji | use deodorant if you must | 10:01 |
| ketas | Nokaji: only tiny part | 10:01 |
| Nokaji | avoid aluminium is what I do | 10:01 |
| dividediff[m] | brb looking up antiperspirants | 10:01 |
| ketas | i actually prefer scentless deodorants | 10:01 |
| Nokaji | box of 100 nitrile gloves Β£7 | 10:02 |
| dividediff[m] | aren't some of those 1 use only food containers made out of aluminum? | 10:02 |
| Nokaji | I also bought some glasses with gaskets | 10:02 |
| ketas | dividediff[m]: they are | 10:02 |
| ketas | without al componds if possible but that's not confirmed dangerous | 10:02 |
| Nokaji | cooking pans are made out of aluminium sometimes | 10:02 |
| ketas | with ptfe coating? | 10:03 |
| ketas | of ceramic | 10:03 |
| ketas | or | 10:03 |
| Nokaji | pure alu' | 10:03 |
| Zalyssa | aluminium* | 10:03 |
| ketas | actually ceramic coated stuff is nice | 10:03 |
| ketas | or stainless | 10:03 |
| Nokaji | non-stick is the other substance to avoid | 10:03 |
| mefistofeles | %cases germany | 10:03 |
| Brainstorm | ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'ao' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 96, in covid) | 10:03 |
| Nokaji | in pots | 10:04 |
| mefistofeles | I think germany is the worse one now | 10:04 |
| mefistofeles | %cases germany | 10:04 |
| Brainstorm | ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'ao' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 96, in covid) | 10:04 |
| ketas | Nokaji: ptfe maybe, ceramic maybe not | 10:04 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: darsie The myth that breast cancer is believed to be linked with deodorant use has been widely circulated and appears to originate from a spam email sent in 1999;[5] however, there is no evidence to support the existence of such a link.[6] | 10:04 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'ao' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 96, in covid) | 10:04 |
| Nokaji | ceramic should be fine but it can be used over something not so safe | 10:04 |
| darsie | dividediff[m]: I saw it in a documentary. | 10:04 |
| ketas | yes, i actually do prefer glass, stainless of ceramic for food but sometimes it's not possible | 10:05 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | %data us | 10:05 |
| Brainstorm | ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'ao' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 96, in covid) | 10:05 |
| Nokaji | I'd rather avoid it, it isn't necessary | 10:05 |
| mefistofeles | the bot is damaged | 10:05 |
| dividediff[m] | darsie: Wiki has a whole write up on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deodorant#Health_effects | 10:05 |
| mefistofeles | %source | 10:05 |
| darsie | dividediff[m]: I don't really care. I don't use it. | 10:06 |
| ketas | for storing, carrying or selling food, pretty hard to oavoid plastic | 10:06 |
| ketas | like pp or pet | 10:06 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: The agency warns people with kidney dysfunction to consult a doctor before using antiperspirants containing aluminum.[30] | 10:06 |
| dividediff[m] | ketas: glass? | 10:06 |
| Nokaji | dividediff[m]: that suggests alu' is a problem | 10:07 |
| ketas | dividediff[m]: never used anything out of glass for food? | 10:07 |
| darsie | I use a glass bottle for drinking water, cause I can better clean it with HCl if it starts to smell. | 10:07 |
| ketas | hah hcl | 10:08 |
| Nokaji | glass is inert, = safer | 10:08 |
| darsie | There are hydrolytic classes for glass, so it's not totally inert. | 10:08 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: yea so it is a problem, just not for breast cancer or alzeihmers it seems | 10:08 |
| ketas | glass is heavy and breaks, otherwise ideal | 10:08 |
| dividediff[m] | metal containers? | 10:08 |
| Nokaji | there's stainless steel - better than alu' | 10:09 |
| darsie | Yeah, I use PET bottles to carry water when I go out. | 10:09 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: any idea why stainless better than Al? | 10:09 |
| darsie | My brother bought a 600 ML steel water bottle. Unfortunately it only fits 600 ml. | 10:09 |
| ketas | glass is good unless you store hf | 10:09 |
| ketas | :) | 10:09 |
| Nokaji | it's not regarded as toxic/reactive | 10:09 |
| Zalyssa | darsie: lol | 10:10 |
| darsie | Sugar forms glass. | 10:10 |
| ketas | we went from virus to sex to food | 10:10 |
| darsie | :) | 10:10 |
| ketas | :/ | 10:10 |
| Nokaji | alu' is also soft, it will disintegrate far easier and end up in your stomach | 10:10 |
| Zalyssa | 600ML is a big water bottle | 10:10 |
| ketas | all essential stuff! | 10:10 |
| dividediff[m] | ketas: when Lj L is alsleep chat becomes a full chat room ha | 10:11 |
| ketas | hah | 10:11 |
| dividediff[m] | Nokaji: true! easier to dmg via scrubbing | 10:11 |
| Nokaji | same with non-stick | 10:12 |
| Nokaji | or if over-heating non-stick | 10:12 |
| ketas | i was about to say that | 10:12 |
| ketas | i actually have (cast) iron pan too | 10:13 |
| Nokaji | bbl... | 10:13 |
| Nokaji | yup, cast iron is nonstick if used prperly | 10:14 |
| ketas | sticks but that never does anything | 10:14 |
| Nokaji | also food may stick to a surface initially but give it a moment and it unsticks by itself (you'd have to ask a chef for more on that) | 10:14 |
| dividediff[m] | Anyone online yester? What conclusion did this room reach about water temp to kill corona? | 10:14 |
| Nokaji | let it release itslef without trying to scrape it | 10:14 |
| ketas | my entire childhood was full of just iron pans and enamelled pots | 10:15 |
| Nokaji | I'd guess 60C or above | 10:15 |
| Nokaji | 59C kills nCov iirc | 10:15 |
| yuriwho | dividediff[m]: in what context | 10:16 |
| Nokaji | but 60C for two minutes min - you'd need to verify that with an expert ofc | 10:16 |
| ketas | i'll sleep soon i guess | 10:16 |
| ketas | eat first | 10:16 |
| ketas | but i sadly need to go out for food soon | 10:16 |
| ketas | delivery services don't work | 10:17 |
| dividediff[m] | yuriwho: washing clothes, ryouma needed some help with laundry | 10:17 |
| yuriwho | regular with soap will kill the virus | 10:17 |
| darsie | 600 Ml bottle: https://cupsincolor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Miir-20oz-Bottle.jpg | 10:17 |
| yuriwho | warmer the better but soap kills this virus | 10:19 |
| dividediff[m] | Heating the SARS at 56Β°C for 5 min dramatically reduced the infectivity of the virus from 2.6 x 107 to 40 TCID5o/ml, whereas heating the virus for 60 min or longer eliminated all infectivity. Irradiation with ultraviolet light at 134!lW/cm2 for 15 min reduced the infectivity from 3.8 x 107 to 180 TCID5o/ml; however, prolonged irradiation (60 min) failed to eliminate the remaining vi- rus, leaving 18.8 TCID5o/ml. | 10:20 |
| ketas | i use medical supplier soap for years now | 10:20 |
| dividediff[m] | yuriwho: lnog story ryouma can't use soap for metabolic reaons | 10:20 |
| ketas | the odorless colorless stuff | 10:21 |
| ketas | real nice | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:11 UTC: Northern Territory to close its borders from Tuesday: Three people diagnosed with Covid-19 being treated in Darwin as further restrictions possible for territory β from WHO at 09:11: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/NVkUh1 | 10:21 |
| dividediff[m] | ketas: brand name? | 10:21 |
| yuriwho | ahh, well I have not investigated that in particular | 10:22 |
| ketas | dividediff[m]: chemi-pharm... they actually make it here and are supposedly really popular in countries around this region | 10:23 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: check out medical supplier soap, chemi-pharm | 10:24 |
| dividediff[m] | ketas: is that how i ping ryo to check when s/he's online? | 10:24 |
| ketas | hopefully | 10:25 |
| ketas | like https://www.chemi-pharm.com/en/cleansing/hand-cleansing/medical-soap | 10:26 |
| ketas | apparently it's fine for hair too | 10:27 |
| dividediff[m] | enveloped, positive-sense single-stranded RNA viruses. Coronaviruses are transmitted in most instances through large respiratory droplets and contact transmission, but other modes of transmission (i.e. airborne and faeco-oral) have also been proposed. | 10:30 |
| ketas | yuck at faeco-oral | 10:33 |
| mefistofeles | do we have data on the cases per 100k habitants in Lombardia? | 10:36 |
| mefistofeles | %cases Lombardia | 10:38 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In Lombardia, Italy, there are 22264 cases, 2549 deaths (11.4% of cases), 4295 recoveries as of March 20, 16:00Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardia for time series data. | 10:38 |
| mefistofeles | %wa Lombardia population | 10:38 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles, Wolfram|Alpha (Lombardia, Michoacan, Mexico | city population): Result: 11417 people (country rank: β802nd) (2004 estimate) β https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Lombardia+population | 10:38 |
| mefistofeles | %wa Lombardia, Italy population | 10:38 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: yea | 10:38 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles, Wolfram|Alpha (Lombardy, Italy | population): Result: 10.02 million people (17% of total for Italy) (Friday, June 30, 2017) β https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Lombardia%2C+Italy+population | 10:38 |
| mefistofeles | %wa 22264/10e6 * 100000 | 10:39 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles, Wolfram|Alpha (22264/(10Γ10^6)Γ100000): Decimal form: 222.64 β https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=22264%2F10e6+%2A+100000 | 10:39 |
| Cosmicjoker | hey mefistofeles | 10:40 |
| mefistofeles | hey Cosmicjoker | 10:40 |
| Cosmicjoker | what do you make of the no cases in china for two days? | 10:40 |
| dividediff[m] | Cosmicjoker: i was linked to a relevant yter | 10:41 |
| mefistofeles | Cosmicjoker: there have been new cases reported, just not many. Also there are probably lot more, just not being tested (mild to no symptoms) | 10:41 |
| mefistofeles | I'd think that's true, fwiw, we don't really have a reason for believeng it is not the case | 10:41 |
| Cosmicjoker | but for cases to just drop like that makes no sense unless they basically stopped testing | 10:41 |
| Cosmicjoker | or worse | 10:42 |
| mefistofeles | Cosmicjoker: aren't they still in pretty strict quarantine since weeks now? I'd think that explains it | 10:42 |
| mefistofeles | also why most countries are now adopting similar measurements | 10:43 |
| Cosmicjoker | yeah thats true, they did also build like a hospital in a week | 10:43 |
| mefistofeles | two | 10:43 |
| Cosmicjoker | have a massive amount of mobility in terms of people to tackle this thing | 10:43 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, they are still probably not reporting many of the mild cases, for sure... but that's basically happening in every country | 10:44 |
| Cosmicjoker | but even then im finding it heard to get my head around it | 10:44 |
| mefistofeles | maybe in China is a bit more relevant, since the population there is much larger | 10:44 |
| Cosmicjoker | yeah, only hospitalised cases | 10:44 |
| Cosmicjoker | atleast for uk anyway | 10:44 |
| dividediff[m] | china has recently expelled western journalists | 10:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:17 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live updates: all of Sydneyβs eastern beaches to close on Sunday to enforce social distancing: Australia rolls out new social distancing rules as number of people testing positive for Covid-19 nationally passes 1,000 and New Zealand reports its biggest single-day rise in cases. Follow the latest news β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 10:45 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %data Turkey | 10:48 |
| Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 670 cases, 9 deaths (1.3% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 01:43Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 10:48 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: yes, but that doesn't mean they are hiding something, that's probably more about western blaming China for this pandemic. I mean, they expelled them when China was already in a slowdown in the curve | 10:54 |
| mefistofeles | but who knows for sure | 10:54 |
| mefistofeles | Korea is amazing for sure, without any strict quarantine regulations they managed the slowdown in a few weeks | 10:56 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: yea and yea | 10:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:37 UTC: Jordan: Coronavirus: Jordan begins nationwide curfew for 10m citizens β from WHO at 09:37: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/8GNVo2 | 10:58 |
| dividediff[m] | sudan sitting at a 50% death rate | 10:58 |
| pagetelegram | David, I only use Sage Oil spray as deodarent....only ingredients are sage oil and alcohol. | 10:59 |
| Mr_Pink | why is germany doing so well. | 11:02 |
| mefistofeles | Mr_Pink: age groups being hit are younger than in Italy, and probably the hospitals are still coping with the demand | 11:02 |
| Mr_Pink | actually probably just better testing | 11:02 |
| Mr_Pink | yeah | 11:02 |
| Mr_Pink | age group too good point. far fewer serious too | 11:03 |
| mefistofeles | that said, I do think this is going to get lot worse, it is still rising fast, even faster than in Italy nowadays | 11:03 |
| pagetelegram | Projection is 18mo for containment....with that information alone and what we know now: imagine the trajectory. | 11:03 |
| mefistofeles | < dividediff[m]> sudan sitting at a 50% death rate ---> oh man :( | 11:04 |
| mefistofeles | oh, only 2 cases so far, that's too soon | 11:04 |
| pagetelegram | We can't wait for todays science to confirm natural vedic sciences; finally Copper is being recognized; been known for millennia. | 11:05 |
| Mr_Pink | Google's page is up. https://www.google.com/covid19/ | 11:06 |
| Mr_Pink | Has their own data map which I'm not sure is new or not, but well done https://google.org/crisisresponse/covid19-map | 11:06 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: yea so it's no problem yet. It is bad that i think their first case died. Like no way was the hos[ital full | 11:06 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: yeah, but it was probably a very critical case, let's hope | 11:07 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: im concerned about their gdp being very low with a lack of hospital beds. Hopefully china can bail out the more poor countries or smthg | 11:08 |
| mefistofeles | Mr_Pink: that's cool | 11:08 |
| mefistofeles | in Germany the Robert Koch Institute made a really nice dashboard/map for it | 11:08 |
| mefistofeles | the best one I've seen so far | 11:09 |
| dividediff[m] | Mr_Pink: "Cases per 1M people " oh man thats a nce featrue | 11:09 |
| mefistofeles | not the first one to do it, btw .P | 11:10 |
| adventurer | Stock up now with zinc lozenges. These lozenges have been proven to be effective in blocking coronavirus (and most other viruses) from multiplying in your throat and nasopharynx. Use as directed several times each day when you begin to feel ANY βcold-likeβ symptoms beginning. It is best to lie down and let the lozenge dissolve in the back of your throat and nasopharynx. Cold-Eeze lozenges is one brand available, but there | 11:17 |
| adventurer | are other brands available. < - advice by expert given to his family and friends | 11:17 |
| adventurer | https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/zinc-lozenges-coronavirus/ | 11:17 |
| yuriwho | here's the latest in genomic epidemiology of SARS-CoV-2: https://nextstrain.org/narratives/ncov/sit-rep/2020-03-20 | 11:18 |
| mefistofeles | yuriwho: thanks | 11:19 |
| Mr_Pink | yuriwho this is the first graph in awhile that's been uplifting rather than scary lol | 11:23 |
| darsie | Dr. Seheult said chloroquine can channel zinc into cells where it disrupts a cv protein. Is zinc without chloroquine helpful, too? | 11:23 |
| Mr_Pink | as long as i dont get it from my damn delivery groceries i'll be good | 11:23 |
| Mr_Pink | o i forgot the graph https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nextstrain/ncov/master/figures/social-distancing-efficacy.png | 11:23 |
| euod[m] | <Mr_Pink "as long as i dont get it from my"> if that's your concern, don't touch them for a bit. | 11:24 |
| euod[m] | the lifetime is limited by some amount (who knows what). | 11:24 |
| yuriwho | also, here's the main data and analysis view: https://nextstrain.org/ncov | 11:25 |
| Mr_Pink | Yeah. I live offstreet so I can leave them outside for a bit in the sun pretty safely | 11:25 |
| mefistofeles | yuriwho: the thought experiment is kinda nice, expecting worse case scenario in May... | 11:25 |
| darsie | adventurer: | 11:26 |
| yuriwho | mefistofeles: yes | 11:26 |
| Mr_Pink | that animation is wild | 11:26 |
| euod[m] | <Mr_Pink "Yeah. I live offstreet so I can "> yep. it's easy to do that with amazon packages and whatever too. | 11:26 |
| Mr_Pink | this is amazon fresh haha | 11:26 |
| euod[m] | the delivery guy saw me getting out the snow shovel to put packages in the garage and gave me a truely disturbed look. | 11:27 |
| Mr_Pink | lmao | 11:27 |
| adventurer | darsie, I don't know I am no expert I am just repeating something that might be good advice as it was from an expert. | 11:29 |
| adventurer | from the article it sounds like coronaviruses don't like zinc all that much | 11:29 |
| euod[m] | maybe that's a stupid thing to be doing, but it's not harmful. | 11:29 |
| euod[m] | just means all deliveries I get are delayed another 3 days. | 11:29 |
| euod[m] | it's not like next day shipping is happening at the moment anyway. | 11:30 |
| mefistofeles | Wash your hands "like you just chopped a jalapeno and have to change a contact lens." xD | 11:30 |
| yuriwho | folks, please do not take chloroquine: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/20/chloroquine-past-and-present | 11:30 |
| Mr_Pink | isnt quinine that stuff in tonic | 11:31 |
| Mr_Pink | https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323692 | 11:32 |
| darsie | That's chinine. | 11:32 |
| Mr_Pink | no its quinine | 11:32 |
| Mr_Pink | same thing | 11:32 |
| darsie | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinine | 11:32 |
| darsie | https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinin | 11:32 |
| Mr_Pink | "Quinine is also the ingredient in tonic water that gives it its bitter taste." | 11:32 |
| euod[m] | and makes it glow. | 11:33 |
| euod[m] | yes tonic water glows under UV. | 11:33 |
| Mr_Pink | delicious | 11:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports its first two deaths, Italy locks down further β from WHO at 10:31: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/xo08SF | 11:34 |
| euod[m] | anyway. I'm doing my bit by running folding at home. no idea how useful that is, but makes me feel better. | 11:36 |
| euod[m] | have two more Epyc processors to add in, but I'm at my power budget. | 11:37 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: it helps a bit, but pharmaceuticals will probably ignore those results since they are probably having much better results with screening | 11:38 |
| mefistofeles | but it does help the academic community and many researchers outside the big pharmaceuticals | 11:38 |
| euod[m] | more useful than shitposting online. | 11:38 |
| euod[m] | <mefistofeles "euod: it helps a bit, but pharma"> yeah. mostly makes me feel better. | 11:38 |
| mefistofeles | that said, I'm also running it now that I can | 11:39 |
| mefistofeles | I wasusing my computing powers for my thesis work, but now I can spare some resources :P | 11:39 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: you can check if the projects actually running on your machine are related to covid-19 | 11:41 |
| euod[m] | Project 14328 CORONAVIRUS PROJECT | 11:41 |
| darsie | yuriwho: adventurer: Here's the chloroquine and zinc video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M | 11:42 |
| yuriwho | is that med cram? | 11:42 |
| darsie | yqs | 11:42 |
| darsie | yes | 11:42 |
| adventurer | thanks | 11:42 |
| yuriwho | I watched that about a week ago | 11:42 |
| darsie | ok | 11:42 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: I know it's doing something because it's hot as hell near my server :P | 11:43 |
| euod[m] | surprise! 1kW of load appears. | 11:43 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: haha, how many cores in your server? | 11:43 |
| euod[m] | <mefistofeles "euod: haha, how many cores in yo"> 6 + 8 + 4 + 1080 TI. plus another 64 in a machine that's not running. | 11:44 |
| mefistofeles | oooh nice, 1080ti is actually pretty good in terms of performance/price ratio | 11:45 |
| euod[m] | one of my friends bought a bulk lot of 2080TI cards for some reason months ago, so now he has a use for them. | 11:45 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: indeed, those are great for it as well | 11:45 |
| mefistofeles | we have 4 of them running simulations now | 11:45 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: | 11:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:31 UTC: All of Sydneyβs eastern beaches to close on Sunday to enforce Covid-19 social distancing βΒ as it happened: Australia rolls out new social distancing rules as number of people testing positive for Covid-19 nationally passes 1,000 and New Zealand reports its biggest single-day rise in cases. This blog is now closed. [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/Xj4H0j | 11:46 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: for some reason there's a chinese seller unloading a huge number of very large FPGA cores at well below cost on aliexpress. I have a bunch of those just for the hell of it, but never actually managed to get the pirated synthesis software they provided to do anything as of yet. | 11:47 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: it feels like I should have a use for a 200,000 LUT FPGA though. but my verilog skills are about "flash an LED" and "lay out clock dividers" so far :P | 11:47 |
| bn_mobile | hi, unless there are those that think it could be done w/ 0/no deaths, am I the only one that thinks that the transition to "herd immunity" (ie: R0E < 1), whether artificially induced or naturally, will basically just entail/result in Darwinian geronticide- ie: a bad idea? | 11:49 |
| mefistofeles | bn_mobile: that might as well be the case, either ways people are going to die, the goal is not flooding the health system and that's a way of doing it, I'd guess | 11:50 |
| euod[m] | I don't think we can prevent that, personally. | 11:50 |
| euod[m] | a good portion of people in countries like africa, south america, etc are going to die. | 11:50 |
| darsie | 2%? | 11:50 |
| euod[m] | those numbers come from countries with meaningful healthcare. | 11:51 |
| darsie | For high risk patients. | 11:51 |
| mefistofeles | darsie: it depends, Italy has shown it can be way more | 11:51 |
| euod[m] | and italy has health care worth mentioning. | 11:52 |
| darsie | mefistofeles: For average infected people? Or hospitalized ones? | 11:52 |
| bn_mobile | mefistofeles: but inducing "herd immunity" *requires* sufficient infections that recover AND then (in theory) become immune to surround the infected and break the transmission vectors, it's asking a lot and requires a steep price to pay | 11:52 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: it'sprobably already very saturated | 11:52 |
| euod[m] | yes, it is. | 11:52 |
| darsie | 40% don't even have symptoms. | 11:52 |
| mefistofeles | darsie: for confirmed positive cases | 11:53 |
| mefistofeles | which yes, those are probably the worse cases, for sure | 11:53 |
| euod[m] | which makes this much harder. | 11:53 |
| mefistofeles | but still | 11:53 |
| euod[m] | any percent of people who are just carriers makes this harder. | 11:53 |
| euod[m] | don't worry, I die, I can't be a carrier :) | 11:53 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m]: if you're saying preventative: not if they socially isolate / self-quarantine to prevent it & starve transmission vectors. If you're saying reactive: then yes, since they may not have the health infrastructure to support the sick | 11:54 |
| mefistofeles | that's why many Latin Americans countries are already talking major social distancing measurements | 11:55 |
| bn_mobile | mefistofeles: isn't Italy's demographics, older? | 11:55 |
| euod[m] | <bn_mobile "euod: if you're saying preventa"> I don't think many countries like that will have any luck getting people to self isolate. india for example almost certainly will not unless you literally gun down anybody that's outside who isn't the military. | 11:55 |
| mefistofeles | full quarantine and lockdown for some countries with 100 cases or so | 11:55 |
| mefistofeles | bn_mobile: yes, the main reason is that there are many elderly dying in Italy | 11:55 |
| euod[m] | <bn_mobile "euod: if you're saying preventa"> like I fully support that. if you don't have a reason to be outside, you receive a lead slug. | 11:55 |
| mefistofeles | but imho, that alone doesn'texplain it | 11:55 |
| darsie | What's worse, starving or being shot? | 11:56 |
| euod[m] | <mefistofeles "but imho, that alone doesn'texpl"> blood types, like with malaria, have some impact. | 11:56 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: indeed | 11:56 |
| euod[m] | and distrubutions of that change a lot depending on the country. | 11:56 |
| mefistofeles | darsie: starving for sure | 11:56 |
| pagetelegram | "A therapeutic dose of quinine is 500-1,000 mg and tonic water contains no more than 83 mg of quinine per litre. However, together they may be useful in treating allergic asthma" | 11:56 |
| euod[m] | the US is a good portion A, where China is not. for example. | 11:56 |
| pagetelegram | You will be pissing a ton of tonic to get anywhere what you need | 11:56 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m]: why do you think India wouldn't? If anything their culture is more conducive to social group thinking VS the "independent" west | 11:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:40 UTC: Germans sing from rooftops in solidarity with Italy during coronavirus lockdown β video: People in the Bavarian town of Bamberg stood on their rooftops and opened their windows to sing Bella Ciao, an Italian resistance song, in solidarity with Italy where the death toll from the Covid-19 outbreak continues to rise [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/cVFtqU | 11:58 |
| euod[m] | <bn_mobile "euod: why do you think India wo"> hand stamping people who are supposed to be inside wouldn't be hapening if they expected people to follow the directions. | 11:58 |
| bn_mobile | pagetelegram: so just drink more water? :) | 11:59 |
| darsie | Indians went to mass prayers where they were proclaimed to be corona virus free. | 12:00 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m]: "portion A"? | 12:00 |
| euod[m] | <bn_mobile "euod: "portion A"?"> a good portion of people are blood type A. which is heavily affected by malaria / coronavirus. O type appears to have significantly less infections. | 12:01 |
| bn_mobile | darsie: I think you're thinking of Bangladesh, a different but neighboring country? | 12:01 |
| darsie | yeah | 12:01 |
| darsie | https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51956510 He had urged people to join him in praying for protection, and after the event, told people that they would now be "free from the coronavirus". | 12:02 |
| darsie | Bangladesh | 12:02 |
| bn_mobile | yes, different country, very different religion too | 12:02 |
| ketas | doh | 12:04 |
| bn_mobile | but one may not be able to visually tell the difference if you met someone from Bangladesh | 12:04 |
| ketas | praying for corona, insanity | 12:04 |
| euod[m] | like uh, the president of the US? :P | 12:05 |
| euod[m] | calling for a day of prayer. | 12:05 |
| euod[m] | fucking asshole. | 12:05 |
| pagetelegram | https://www2.illinois.gov/Documents/ExecOrders/2020/ExecutiveOrder-2020-10.pdf | 12:05 |
| mefistofeles | pagetelegram: summary? | 12:05 |
| bn_mobile | India has had a rough history in relation to Islam so they're not too friendly to it now | 12:05 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m]: PoTUS? | 12:06 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: executive order: stay the fuck at home. | 12:06 |
| euod[m] | <bn_mobile "euod: PoTUS?"> yes, | 12:06 |
| ketas | where i can pray the trump away? | 12:06 |
| ketas | :) | 12:06 |
| darsie | Dear FSM, take Trump away. | 12:06 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m]: I don't think he was advocating for "group prayers" | 12:06 |
| euod[m] | https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1238599369466753026 | 12:06 |
| euod[m] | 'It is my great honor to declare Sunday, March 15th as a National Day of Prayer. We are a Country that, throughout our history, has looked to God for protection and strength in times like these....' | 12:06 |
| ketas | wtf | 12:07 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m]: he's not an idiot but I'm sure he knows his power base | 12:07 |
| euod[m] | it's still implying that whishy thinking does anything. | 12:07 |
| Biep[m] | <ketas "praying for corona, insanity"> Praying ***for*** it? Let's massively pray ***against*** it, and against those who ask us to pray *for* it.. | 12:08 |
| bn_mobile | I'm surprised he'd say that, he doesn't strike me as the religious type, except to the "almighty $", lol | 12:09 |
| euod[m] | <bn_mobile "euod: he's not an idiot but I'm "> he's literally a moron. he's the people inbred rednecks think they would be if they weren't poor as fuck. | 12:09 |
| AimHere | How many people would think that cannabis production and agriculture would be classified as an essential service in an emergency? | 12:09 |
| mefistofeles | can we leave Trump and useless politics out of this channel? :) | 12:09 |
| euod[m] | it is in canada. | 12:09 |
| euod[m] | no danger of running out of ganja here. | 12:09 |
| RougeR | hi | 12:09 |
| AimHere | mefistofeles, Trump's reaction to coronavirus is surely ontopic | 12:10 |
| mefistofeles | AimHere: we should be discussing the official USA reaction, not Trump's tweets, fwiw | 12:10 |
| bn_mobile | mefistofeles: agreed | 12:10 |
| AimHere | Those tweets are classed as government communication? If trump tweets something asinine, or otherwise in relation to the virus, I think it's a fair topic for discussion. 'National Day of Prayer', not so much | 12:11 |
| bn_mobile | mefistofeles: so thoughts on my response to your comment earlier re. H.I.? | 12:11 |
| euod[m] | <AimHere "Those tweets are classed as gove"> yes. trump tweets are official communication in the US. | 12:11 |
| mefistofeles | bn_mobile: which response again? I got a bit ost, sorry | 12:12 |
| mefistofeles | lost* | 12:12 |
| bn_mobile | > mefistofeles: but inducing "herd immunity" *requires* sufficient infections that recover AND then (in theory) become immune to surround the infected and break the transmission vectors, it's asking a lot and requires a steep price to pay | 12:13 |
| mefistofeles | bn_mobile: ah yes, it'suntested, we are all in uncharted territory, specially for western countries | 12:14 |
| mefistofeles | so, I don't really know, if it works... that would be really good to know | 12:14 |
| mefistofeles | I think THe Netherlands is implementing a similar approach | 12:14 |
| euod[m] | look at it like this. | 12:15 |
| euod[m] | imagine 1% of people who get it, need ICU treatment. | 12:15 |
| euod[m] | say we have 1000 ICU beds. | 12:15 |
| euod[m] | so we can have at most 1000000 people infected before overwhelming the hospital. | 12:15 |
| euod[m] | 100,000 rather. | 12:16 |
| euod[m] | say we have 10M people. | 12:16 |
| euod[m] | and say it takes 1 week for them to not be in the ICU. | 12:16 |
| euod[m] | so we now have a period of 100 weeks to innoculate the whole population. | 12:17 |
| bn_mobile | mefistofeles: I'm just trying to play devil's advocate and trying to understand if there really is anything redeeming about it and if it's even possible to induce it w/o a huge # of deaths | 12:17 |
| AimHere | That's assuming the virus is nice and friendly and has a rota system | 12:17 |
| darsie | What kind of disinfectants are being sprayed in public places? | 12:17 |
| bn_mobile | mefistofeles: re. NL: you're kidding right? | 12:17 |
| AimHere | In reality, there's an epidemiological bell curve so the cases are concentrated in the middle of the outbreak and it's a shitton worse | 12:17 |
| mefistofeles | bn_mobile: I'm not, but it's just something I read/heard | 12:18 |
| euod[m] | darsie: haha. oh someone mentioned the chinese one people are using, the people spraying it are going to die. | 12:18 |
| bn_mobile | mefistofeles: I guess it depends on your demographics, if you have more healthy VS vulnerable, maybe it is practical to implement | 12:18 |
| AimHere | bn_mobile, well the optimal way is to slow the incidence down so that the total number of cases isn't more than the health services can cope with | 12:18 |
| euod[m] | look at the imaginary numbers I made up. | 12:18 |
| euod[m] | that's 2 years, of every ICU bed being filled. | 12:18 |
| mefistofeles | now, one relevant fact is that the UK is low in ICU beds per capita, afaik | 12:19 |
| AimHere | 4500 for 70 million people | 12:19 |
| bn_mobile | mefistofeles: the thing I have a problem with, is you don't know if those that are "healthy" truly will survive, ie: "Heeey, you seem healthy, we need to infect you for <reasons>... trust us, you will be OK though, lolol" | 12:19 |
| euod[m] | yeah well. I didn't use the actual UK numbers because they came out stupid. | 12:19 |
| AimHere | But I'm assuming that the health people are full-on manufacturing those as we speak | 12:19 |
| mefistofeles | bn_mobile: that's not what they are ding, in any case | 12:20 |
| euod[m] | huh? no. the limiting factor is healthcare people. | 12:20 |
| euod[m] | you can make 100,000 beds. but finding the staff to even handle that, for any extended period of time, is absurd. | 12:20 |
| mefistofeles | AimHere: for sure | 12:20 |
| AimHere | euod[m], good point, though late-term medical students could surely be drafted. | 12:20 |
| euod[m] | <AimHere "euod, good point, though late-te"> there's not that many of them. even if you have like, failed med student vets placing IVs, it won't be enough for any large scale. | 12:20 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m]: I hope you're not mixing the mortality rate of 1% up with infection rate, R0 | 12:21 |
| euod[m] | learn to place your own IVs and intubate yourself please. | 12:21 |
| bn_mobile | AimHere: "rota"? | 12:21 |
| euod[m] | <bn_mobile "euod: I hope you're not mixing t"> I'm not. the hospitalization rate is somewhat higher than 1% if the numbers are correct-ish. | 12:21 |
| AimHere | bn_mobile, basically his numbers assumed that the virus infects people at an even number throughout the outbreak. The number of infected is flat, over time | 12:22 |
| xrogaan | Imagine 600 dead people in one day, because of the disease. That's an entire village. Imagine that the disease spread unabated in the US since January, and estimate the amount of people who got infected. | 12:22 |
| AimHere | bn_mobile, the reality is worse, in that it's more of a bell curve - exponential growth early in the outbreak then a shitton of people infected all at once in the middle, then it falls off | 12:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:19 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Numero di Contagi β from WHO at 11:19: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/pzzbeL | 12:22 |
| bn_mobile | AimHere: yes, in either policy/strategy, "induced HI" or not, that would be a goal | 12:22 |
| xrogaan | There isn't enough ICU beds in the US. | 12:22 |
| Nokaji | it's (mortality) a factor of 10 higher | 12:22 |
| xrogaan | <euod[m]> imagine 1% of people who get it, need ICU treatment. | 12:23 |
| xrogaan | it's 5% in Italy, unless severe needs ICU too. | 12:23 |
| xrogaan | severe cases* | 12:23 |
| xrogaan | 5% critical, 24% severe. If both needs ICU bed, that's 30% of the sicks. | 12:24 |
| xrogaan | (rounded) | 12:24 |
| euod[m] | xrogaan: right. I was trying to do orders of magnitude, which is just a way of coming up with my 100 weeks figure, which is so clearly out of scale with reality that it can't happen, even if it is in itself order of magnitude low. | 12:24 |
| bn_mobile | mefistofeles: but it _could be_ if it became policy, and f if I would follow that | 12:24 |
| mefistofeles | I think the estimate that need hospitalization/ICU is around 10 to 20% of confirmed cases | 12:25 |
| xrogaan | And that's with efforts to keep the disease at bay, as the numbers of newly sick from Italy are reducing. | 12:25 |
| xrogaan | I hope it's slowing. Didn't verify. | 12:25 |
| xrogaan | %data italy | 12:25 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +5938 cases (now 284056), +398 deaths (now 11843), +1545 recoveries (now 93962) πΈ Spain: +3355 cases (now 24926), +233 deaths (now 1326), +537 recoveries (now 2125) πΈ Iran: +966 cases (now 20610), +123 deaths (now 1556), +890 recoveries (now 7635) πΈ Germany: +294 cases (now 20142), +2 deaths (now 70) [... want %more?] | 12:25 |
| Brainstorm | xrogaan: In all areas, Italy, there are 47021 cases, 4032 deaths (8.6% of cases), 5129 recoveries as of March 21, 11:18Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 12:25 |
| mefistofeles | CFR is rising, but we know there's a lag of 7 days in avg for that | 12:25 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: but see, "confirmed cases" is basically meaningless. in most countries nobody can get tested, so the actual number of cases is probably many, many times higher. think order of magnitude, which pushes the hospitalization percentage down. | 12:25 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: sure, the estimates are 10 times more of the confirmed cases for China data (which they probably tested more/better than many countries) | 12:26 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m]: the hospitalization rate is much higher, 1% is just those that survived | 12:27 |
| xrogaan | The number of case isn't relevant for these stats. We need to know, out of those who are serious enough to receive the test, how many needs a ICU bed. | 12:27 |
| bn_mobile | oh wait, n/m, I guess you're in agreement? | 12:27 |
| euod[m] | <bn_mobile "euod: the hospitalization rate i"> again, I was doing orders of magnitude not real numbers. as we don't have very good source information at this point doing anything else isn't that helpful. | 12:27 |
| euod[m] | <bn_mobile "oh wait, n/m, I guess you're in "> yes, I am. | 12:27 |
| AimHere | xrogaan, yeah, the public numbers we get are awful. The only remotely trustworthy one is the death figure | 12:27 |
| mefistofeles | xrogaan: still, that's computed as a percentage of the number of cases, and it's around 10-20% depending on region | 12:27 |
| AimHere | xrogaan, and I'm not sure about that | 12:27 |
| Biep[m] | See Iceland - fairly isolated, both as a country and as communities within it - where they tested over 1% of the population infected. Assume at least that for the world. | 12:28 |
| mefistofeles | read the resources in the topic | 12:28 |
| mefistofeles | of course, that changes with time, specially when triage measurementes take place | 12:29 |
| xrogaan | The US is fucked, the UK too. Other countries setting up quarantines have a shot at delaying the peak. | 12:29 |
| xrogaan | And we might have been too late with that. | 12:29 |
| euod[m] | and canada. | 12:29 |
| euod[m] | canada has too much of an open border with the US, and chickened out in closing it. | 12:29 |
| AimHere | People were still going out to pubs and sit-in restaurants in the UK as of last night, hours after the shutdown order | 12:29 |
| bn_mobile | AimHere: worse than what? yes, I've seen the China graphs, that's archetypal viral propagation mathematical functions | 12:29 |
| xrogaan | So yeah, expect thousands of death per day during the coming weeks. | 12:30 |
| AimHere | bn_mobile, the bell curve is worse than a flat 'x% of the population has the virus at any one time' hypothetical that euod[m] was using for his baseline numbers | 12:30 |
| euod[m] | indeed. my numbers were trying to come up with a situation in which the "herd immunity" works. | 12:31 |
| xrogaan | might even reach tens of thousands new case per day for some countries, so long as they have the capacity to test. | 12:31 |
| euod[m] | idealistic, intentional infection of a population at a controlled rate. | 12:31 |
| euod[m] | jesus, folding at home is HAMMERED. | 12:31 |
| AimHere | xrogaan, I'm expecting about 8000 new cases in the US today | 12:31 |
| euod[m] | 3 minutes to upload 14MB is nasty. | 12:32 |
| darsie | We could isolate high risk ppl, infect the rest, wait 1 month, release the high risk ppl. | 12:32 |
| bn_mobile | uh that bot seems broken, I guess it doesn't consider Italy a country anymore? :) | 12:32 |
| AimHere | darsie, you still have to pace the infection of 'the rest' | 12:33 |
| bn_mobile | oh wait, n/m | 12:33 |
| euod[m] | <darsie "We could isolate high risk ppl, "> if you infect more than 100k people (in my hyperthetical) the hostpitals are overwhelmed and everybody dies. | 12:33 |
| bn_mobile | (tired.. ) | 12:33 |
| darsie | euod[m]: Only 2% die. 40% don't get symptoms at all. | 12:34 |
| AimHere | darsie, if your non high-risk people have a 1% hospitalization rate, that's still 1000 people per million. if they're all ill at once. | 12:34 |
| euod[m] | <darsie "We could isolate high risk ppl, "> assume the 1% in my discussion as "will die if not at a hospital", then 100,000 people are dead. | 12:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:30 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Iran's death toll tops 1,500; Bondi Beach closed as distancing rules ignored: The number of people who have died from the coronavirus in Iran has reached 1,556 β a rise of more than 100, Reuters reported. Meanwhile, Australia closed Bondi Beach after crowds flocked to its shores. [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/xo08SF | 12:34 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m] / xrogaan : the #s you seek are right here, see first two boxes, can drill down by country even | 12:38 |
| euod[m] | again. I wasn't trying to do this with real numbers. | 12:39 |
| pagetelegram | My recommendation for telehealth, and I am in touch with Denis F. to suggest adding the Mesh Protocols and make the platform free during pandemic: https://hand.is/corona/wp-bbm-enterprise-and-hipaa.pdf | 12:40 |
| bn_mobile | xrogaan: because the US/UK has a tendency for civil disobedience? | 12:41 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m]: dude, they already closed the Canada-US border | 12:41 |
| xrogaan | death rate of Italy is 7.6%, not 2%. | 12:41 |
| xrogaan | 2% is if you properly quarantine everything right away. | 12:42 |
| azy | inaccurate af though | 12:42 |
| azy | we dont know how many are infected | 12:42 |
| darsie | xrogaan: 7.6% of tested positive ppl? | 12:42 |
| xrogaan | yes | 12:42 |
| euod[m] | bn_mobile: a month too late. | 12:42 |
| xrogaan | numbers won't really tell us anything, they're not accurate enough. Suffise to say: it's bad, very bad. | 12:43 |
| darsie | xrogaan: All of Italy or Lombardy? | 12:44 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m]: it could work, the problem is how do you transition to that point safely w/ the minimal of deaths... I don't really see a way except to segment off the population into healthy-COVID-19-survivable (possibly!) VS "moated" vulnerable, then letting it rip into the former to obtain "immunes" to surround the vulnerable. | 12:44 |
| xrogaan | darsie: https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/bollettino/Infografica_20marzo%20ENG.pdf | 12:44 |
| AimHere | bn_mobile, you don't let it rip, you have to manage it traversing through the 'non-vulnerable', because they're also rather vulnerable, too | 12:45 |
| xrogaan | You can't "release" people at risk once everybody else got infected, it would mean killing most of them. | 12:46 |
| pagetelegram | https://hand.is/corona/bbmeold3.pdf <-abit outdated still mostly consistent. | 12:47 |
| xrogaan | you can only lift the confinement once you have a vaccine. | 12:47 |
| AimHere | xrogaan, if everybody is vaccinated by having already had the infection, it has much the same effect | 12:48 |
| AimHere | Although more people die along the way | 12:48 |
| darsie | How long till a vaccine? | 12:49 |
| bn_mobile | euod[m] / xrogaan : oops, sorry, link didn't paste: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/ | 12:49 |
| bn_mobile | pagetelegram: I don't see that quoted in there? and who is DenisF? | 12:51 |
| bn_mobile | xrogaan: that's not what I was suggesting, they would have to become "immune" and no longer shed before doing so | 12:54 |
| bn_mobile | AimHere: yes, good point, but presumably because they are healthy they would suffer less and wouldn't need any (or little) hospitalization | 12:54 |
| AimHere | bn_mobile, thing is, the young and healthy still need significant amounts of hospitalization | 12:55 |
| bn_mobile | xrogaan: that would be the conservative approach, but each day of self-quarantine has multiplying economic costs | 12:55 |
| AimHere | The economic costs are kindof irrelevant. The pandemic doesn't stop essential economic functions | 12:56 |
| AimHere | You'll notice how quickly Mike Pence and Mitt Romney transitioned to more or less communistic UBI measures | 12:56 |
| xrogaan | making a vaccine is easy, having an effective vaccine less so. | 12:57 |
| xrogaan | Expect one in more than 1 year. | 12:57 |
| xrogaan | Most probably 2 years. | 12:57 |
| bn_mobile | AimHere: yes, but we're evaluating strategies here, one strategy, ie: "induced H.I." would at least allow the healthy to continue working, VS complete world lockdown | 12:58 |
| xrogaan | The confined live we are experiencing now will be how we need to live for the foreseeable future. So long as people are bloody morons, we need to force a confinement. | 12:59 |
| xrogaan | Once people realize they need to change their behavior, we have a shot at a slow economy. | 12:59 |
| AimHere | bn_mobile, thing is, under the pre-Pandemic society, a huge portion of economic activity was essentially makework | 13:00 |
| AimHere | Only a relatively small fraction was necessary to keep people alive, healthy and sheltered | 13:00 |
| xrogaan | also, automation will increase. | 13:00 |
| bn_mobile | the (world) economy is very interlinked and small businesses and the airline industry are already suffering but yes I agree human life is more valuable. | 13:00 |
| bn_mobile | xrogaan: elaborate, it's the FDA approval process that takes a while is my understanding | 13:01 |
| AimHere | 'businesses are suffering' means that the organizations getting people to do the mostly-makework aren't functioning. It's not a big deal | 13:01 |
| bn_mobile | all the phased clinical trials needing to prove efficacy, etc. | 13:01 |
| Timvde | AimHere: which is good, right? I mean, that means we can afford more people staying home and not working | 13:02 |
| bn_mobile | If T has his way, he's going push through all that (for better or worse) | 13:02 |
| xrogaan | bn_mobile: no, it's all the steps we take to make sure the vaccine is effective. | 13:02 |
| Timvde | Okay, you were already quicker than me on my phone :P | 13:02 |
| AimHere | Timvde, indeed. | 13:02 |
| xrogaan | bn_mobile: fail one, start from scratch. | 13:02 |
| xrogaan | bn_mobile: so yes, we agree :P | 13:02 |
| AimHere | Timvde, the question is what h appens if we emerge from 12 months of not having to be coerced into being a management consultant or a sales executive and people start demanding that we all work for 9 hours a day for them again | 13:03 |
| xrogaan | many vaccines, in trail phase, have unforeseen consequences. Some even make the disease worse once vaccinated people get infected. | 13:03 |
| xrogaan | So they have to be careful. | 13:04 |
| dunstan[m] | For all the worry and fear spreading worldwide, let us not forget the death toll for COVID-19 pales in comparison to the deadliest diseases. We should not be so scared. Cancer, heart disease, malaria, and HIV/AIDS (among others) are all far greater mortal threats. Moreover, related respiratory ailments such as SARS and MERS have been tackled to varying degrees since their outbreaks several years ago. | 13:04 |
| xrogaan | Doubly so to avoid the anti-vaxxer rage. | 13:04 |
| bn_mobile | AimHere: "makework"? | 13:04 |
| Timvde | AimHere: I think most people will just be happy to be seeing their colleagues again tbh | 13:04 |
| AimHere | dunstan[m], spoken like someone who can't draw a graph | 13:04 |
| AimHere | bn_mobile, work that's just work for the sake of work | 13:04 |
| Timvde | AimHere: well, not _necessarily_ | 13:05 |
| AimHere | bn_mobile, the economic function of most work isn't in the thing that people do, but in the paycheque that they get at the end of it | 13:05 |
| Timvde | I mean, entertainment is definitely not needed, but it is nice to have | 13:05 |
| xrogaan | dunstan[m]: covid-19 is not even at its peak, and you claim it "pale in comparison" to other kind of disease? | 13:05 |
| AimHere | Timvde, yeah. People will be spending their time doing things they want now that they're unemplpoyed | 13:05 |
| bn_mobile | xrogaan: yeah, they have to do double blind trials and make sure there are no long-term side-effects etc, and gradually increase the # of participants in the program, etc. | 13:06 |
| xrogaan | dunstan[m]: covid-19 has the potential of making 200 million death before the end of this year, if governments around the globe fuck up. | 13:06 |
| AimHere | Timvde, and the economy will rumble along providing the essentials of life reasonably well | 13:06 |
| Timvde | I'm kinda glad I can do my work 100% from hone tbh | 13:06 |
| Timvde | Otherwise I'd probably be bored | 13:06 |
| Timvde | And I suppose other people are also happy that I can do my work, as I'm in telco :p | 13:07 |
| xrogaan | isn't SARS-1 100% beaten? No more case of that one, right? | 13:07 |
| mefistofeles | xrogaan: I don't think it is 100%, tbh | 13:08 |
| Timvde | xrogaan: I think it still lives in animals and could be transferred if some accident happens | 13:08 |
| xrogaan | MERS still live in camels IIRC. | 13:09 |
| bn_mobile | xrogaan: haha, I forgot about all that [anti-vaxxers]... the problem is the vaccines are highly targeted formulations and each year the CDC (at least in the US) attempts to "guess" what (new?) strain will become virulent, probably hard to predict | 13:09 |
| dunstan[m] | xrogaan: You seem to revel in the most bleak and questionable asumptions. | 13:09 |
| xrogaan | dunstan[m]: you seem to be willfully ignorant of reality. | 13:09 |
| AimHere | dunstan[m], this isn't a SARS, it's a Spanish Flu | 13:10 |
| mefistofeles | bn_mobile: not even, they just basically get vaccines for previous season flu, and hope it works for this season (which does, in many ways) | 13:12 |
| xrogaan | California's governor expect 25m infections over next 8 weeks. That's terrifying. | 13:12 |
| pagetelegram | Denis is the lead engineer of BBMe. | 13:13 |
| xrogaan | > https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/california-governor-says-25-5-million-residents-will-get-coronavirus/ | 13:13 |
| pagetelegram | bn_mobile: https://hand.is/corona/ <- all files collection | 13:14 |
| xrogaan | 25m in 8 weeks, that's 1.250.000 individual in critical condition over 8 weeks. | 13:14 |
| bn_mobile | AimHere: uh, what? you're talking solely about bureaucratic paperwork I hope. economic output is also based on what people do too, a paycheck in regards to GDP is meaningless if it isn't spent | 13:14 |
| pagetelegram | I have trouble remembering to spell his last name reason for the truncation. | 13:15 |
| pagetelegram | bn_mobile: protocols here: https://github.com/moarpepes/awesome-mesh | 13:16 |
| AimHere | bn_mobile, a lot of goods are overproduced and a lot of services are oversold. The world won't miss advertising. The world won't miss management consultancies. The world won't miss plastic novelty keyrings | 13:16 |
| xrogaan | In Belgium, 1/3 of ICU bed are used. | 13:21 |
| mefistofeles | xrogaan: source? | 13:22 |
| Jigsy | Is the UK going into lockdown? | 13:22 |
| Jigsy | My neighbor says we are... | 13:22 |
| mefistofeles | Jigsy: it's likely, I'm expecting that for Germany anytime now | 13:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | Best source of information is official government websites. | 13:22 |
| AimHere | Jigsy, depends what you mean by 'lockdown'. So far, pubs, clubs, gatherings, restaurants are shut. | 13:23 |
| Jigsy | AimHere: Yeah. I'm thinking she might be confusing it with that one. | 13:23 |
| Jigsy | As I haven't heard anything new. | 13:23 |
| AimHere | London Transport is probably going to have to do something. They reduced service, but that meant more packed commuters coughing and spluttering on the tube | 13:23 |
| AimHere | So I'm guessing they're going to have more trains, but stop some people getting onto them | 13:24 |
| xrogaan | %title https://www.lesoir.be/289015/article/2020-03-21/coronavirus-dans-les-hopitaux-un-tiers-des-lits-en-soins-intensifs-sont-occupes | 13:24 |
| contingo | Key Worker pass or something | 13:24 |
| Brainstorm | xrogaan: From www.lesoir.be: Coronavirus: dans les hΓ΄pitaux, un tiers des lits en soins intensifs sont occupΓ©s - Le Soir | 13:24 |
| xrogaan | It's global, so not all ICU are covid-19 patients. | 13:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:18 UTC: (news): World Health Organization offers tips for living under coronavirus quarantine: Don't drink, smoke or watch too much news β from WHO at 12:18: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/hKFME8 | 13:25 |
| astraliam[m] | %data italy | 13:25 |
| Brainstorm | astraliam[m]: In all areas, Italy, there are 47021 cases, 4032 deaths (8.6% of cases), 5129 recoveries as of March 21, 12:19Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 13:25 |
| pale_moon22kk | %data finland | 13:25 |
| Brainstorm | pale_moon22kk: In all areas, Finland, there are 512 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 10 recoveries as of March 21, 12:19Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Finland for time series data. | 13:25 |
| xrogaan | %title https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/belgium-all-news/101861/coronavirus-2815-confirmed-cases-in-belgium/ | 13:26 |
| Brainstorm | xrogaan, the URL could not be loaded | 13:26 |
| pagetelegram | Collective Care: https://hand.is/corona/collective-care.pdf | 13:26 |
| xrogaan | brusselstimes seem like a crappy website. | 13:26 |
| euod[m] | it sounds like a meal. | 13:28 |
| xrogaan | https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/eu-affairs/101228/coronavirus-no-scientific-evidence-that-group-immunity-works/ | 13:29 |
| pale_moon22kk | How's the lockdowns at the Nethelands and Germany currently? Anyone has first had experience? | 13:30 |
| xrogaan | > βThis is a new virus and we donβt know enough about it to conclude that it can cause immunity.β | 13:31 |
| python476 | pale_moon22k cant say for lockdown precisely but someone in NL just told me the unemployment benefits are enacted | 13:32 |
| python476 | a good factor for better confinement | 13:32 |
| python476 | https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf | 13:33 |
| python476 | Design and Prototyping of a Low-cost Portable Mechanical Ventilator (2010) | 13:33 |
| pale_moon22kk | Finland is currently having a shortage on respirators | 13:34 |
| sneep | Jigsy: There will always be rumors spread by people who have heard from a source who heard it from someone else who has a reliable source in the government that a lockdown is going to happen tomorrow/the day after/etc. | 13:36 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +291 cases (now 285624), +3 deaths (now 11856), +10 recoveries (now 94003) πΉ Bosnia and Herzegovina: +1 cases (now 91) πΉ Germany: +124 cases (now 20705) πΉ Greece: +3 deaths (now 13) πΉ India: +11 cases (now 294) πΉ Norway: +2 cases (now 1997) πΉ Pakistan: +91 cases (now 625) πΉ Poland: +13 cases (now 452) [... want %more?] | 13:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:26 UTC: Italy: Coronavirus news: Spain death toll passes 1,300 as Singapore reports first two deaths β live updates β from WHO at 12:26: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/SrLj3D | 13:37 |
| [itchyjunk] | <xrogaan> > βThis is a new virus and we donβt know enough about it to conclude that it can cause immunity.β | 13:37 |
| sneep | Jigsy: It's likely to happen sometime in the foreseeable future but it's best not to trust anything except official sources | 13:37 |
| [itchyjunk] | People recovered. So we know "it can cause immunity", whatever that means. | 13:38 |
| xrogaan | recovery doesn't mean being cured of. | 13:39 |
| xrogaan | I'm not the doctor. | 13:39 |
| [itchyjunk] | Recovery means immune response. | 13:39 |
| adventurer | https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-experts-prove-covid19-can-become-airborne/news-story/f5749c2cb4ed39bbfcb1e645300840ed | 13:39 |
| Jigsy | Ah. | 13:40 |
| Jigsy | My neighbors old. | 13:40 |
| Jigsy | She could mean that, now that I think about it. | 13:40 |
| Jigsy | I know they'll be on lockdown. | 13:40 |
| xrogaan | [itchyjunk]: fuller quote: βItβs a new virus and we have to learn about it. Does it cause immunity? Or is it like the flu and it changes every year and we have to follow it? We donβt know enough and a comprehensive package of very basic public health measures is the right thing to do. We may have more information later,β he said. | 13:43 |
| xrogaan | from https://www.technationnews.com/news/world/immunity-against-the-coronavirus-by-allowing-mass-transmission-would-mean-hundreds-of-thousands-of-deaths/ | 13:43 |
| xrogaan | Nice video by *Kurzgesagt β In a Nutshell*: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY | 13:45 |
| pale_moon22kk | When we will be back to BAU? I think that it will take 6 to 12 months at minium | 13:46 |
| [itchyjunk] | "minimum"? | 13:46 |
| [itchyjunk] | Based on what? | 13:46 |
| [itchyjunk] | "Turns out, another of the biggest factors in whether a virus becomes seasonally recurrent is whether it reaches a level of transmission that is pandemic (prevalent everywhere) and endemic (circulating constantly in local human populations)." | 13:46 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/flu-comes-back-every-year-will-coronavirus/ | 13:46 |
| [itchyjunk] | Seasonality of viruses is an interesting topic. | 13:47 |
| [itchyjunk] | We know very little about why some viruses manage to stay recurrent so well while others not so much. | 13:47 |
| [itchyjunk] | It's all brushed under "stays endemic" type narrative. | 13:47 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1005749 | 13:48 |
| [itchyjunk] | %title | 13:48 |
| Brainstorm | [itchyjunk]: From journals.plos.org: Seasonality in risk of pandemic influenza emergence | 13:48 |
| [itchyjunk] | Influenza is studied way more than the common coronavirus endemic to humans. | 13:48 |
| xrogaan | can't influenza stay dormant withing the environment? | 13:51 |
| [itchyjunk] | Depends on what you mean. If you mean it enters lysogenic cycle, I don't think it does. | 13:52 |
| Nokaji | corona virus is common among aviary, e.g. farm birds | 13:52 |
| [itchyjunk] | It just stays supressed by your own system. | 13:52 |
| [itchyjunk] | There are corona viruses common amount humans too. | 13:52 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html | 13:53 |
| [itchyjunk] | "People around the world commonly get infected with human coronaviruses 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1." | 13:54 |
| [itchyjunk] | Yeah, seems like influenza only has a lytic cycle. | 13:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/communicable-diseases/influenza/data-and-statistics/virology-of-human-influenza | 13:57 |
| bn_mobile | [itchyjunk]: if you're interested in that topic I suggest you check out Plague, Inc, it's interesting because despite being a game it models how humans would react to a contagion and a pathogen that has too severe and quick of a response, evolutionarily would not survive long-term VS one that didn't potentially. | 13:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | I played that game when it was in beta testing years ago. | 13:58 |
| [itchyjunk] | Chances of SARS-CoV-2 being endemic seems to a possibility though, based on what we know. | 13:59 |
| bn_mobile | yeah, it's been around for a while, someone recently made a COVID-19 custom scenario, lol | 14:00 |
| [itchyjunk] | That might also explain why so many different vaccine manufacturer are being encouraged to work on it. | 14:00 |
| bn_mobile | ironic how Greenland is still untouched :) | 14:00 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/greenland-confirms-first-case-of-coronavirus | 14:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | %title | 14:01 |
| Brainstorm | [itchyjunk]: From www.straitstimes.com: Greenland confirms first case of coronavirus, Europe News & Top Stories - The Straits Times | 14:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | Now your computer is protected. | 14:01 |
| bn_mobile | [itchyjunk]: oh, well, so much for that! | 14:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:59 UTC: (news): NYC restaurants face mass layoffs as coronavirus cripples economic life: 'This is a crushing blow' β from WHO at 12:59: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/LdfwUe | 14:01 |
| bn_mobile | ok, gotta catch some ZZzzs, could barely sleep last night :( | 14:01 |
| bn_mobile | too much reading to do, not enough time... | 14:02 |
| bn_mobile | tc all, ttyl | 14:02 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +226 cases (now 285850) πΉ Angola: +1 cases (now 2) πΉ Bangladesh: +5 cases (now 25), +1 deaths (now 2) πΉ Belarus: +7 cases (now 76) πΉ Bolivia: +2 cases (now 19) πΉ Bosnia and Herzegovina: +1 cases (now 91) πΉ Cameroon: +7 cases (now 27) πΉ China: +1 cases (now 81304) πΉ Guangdong, China: +1 cases (now 1400) [... want %more?] | 14:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:08 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Iran's death toll tops 1,500; Bondi Beach closed as distancing rules ignored: The number of people who have died from the coronavirus in Iran has reached 1,556 β a rise of more than 100, Reuters reported. Meanwhile, Australia closed Bondi Beach after crowds flocked to its shores. [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/xo08SF | 14:13 |
| darsie | Brainstorm: I think you already posted that. | 14:14 |
| xrogaan | it's a bot | 14:16 |
| xrogaan | complain to LjL :p | 14:17 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +1258 cases (now 287108), +80 deaths (now 11936), +23 recoveries (now 94026) πΈ Spain: +448 cases (now 25374), +49 deaths (now 1375) πΈ Netherlands: +637 cases (now 3631), +30 deaths (now 136) πΉ Angola: +1 cases (now 2) πΉ Australia: +3 cases (now 1071) πΉ Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +3 cases (now 9) [... want %more?] | 14:22 |
| python476 | poor bot | 14:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:20 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US hospitals seek $100 billion in aid, Spain death toll tops 1,300 β from WHO at 13:20: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/7xQZ3J | 14:25 |
| yuriwho | the numbers in north america will skyrocket this weekend as the testing labs start cranking out data with their new robotics and high throughput PCR machines. Should see a surge by monday | 14:27 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +614 cases (now 287722), +8 deaths (now 11944), +2 recoveries (now 94028) πΈ Germany: +712 cases (now 21293), +1 deaths (now 73) πΉ Angola: +1 cases (now 2) πΉ Australia: +4 cases (now 1072) πΉ Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +3 cases (now 9) πΉ New South Wales, Australia: +83 cases (now 436) πΉ Queensland, Australia: +37 cases (now 221) [... want %more?] | 14:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:35 UTC: Iran's coronavirus death toll tops 1,500; Bondi Beach closed as distancing rules ignored: The number of people who have died from the coronavirus in Iran has reached 1,556 β a rise of more than 100, Reuters reported. Meanwhile, Australia closed Bondi Beach after crowds flocked to its shores. [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/xo08SF | 14:38 |
| mefistofeles | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1neju1ned9ezEaBIM6xCdnALMjx9gqaItL5ONmhXutks/edit# nice organized document | 14:42 |
| kinroy | %data holland | 14:42 |
| Brainstorm | kinroy: Sorry, holland not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 14:42 |
| euod[m] | %data netherlands | 14:43 |
| Brainstorm | euod[m]: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 3631 cases, 136 deaths (3.7% of cases), 2 recoveries as of March 21, 13:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data. | 14:43 |
| euod[m] | de nederlands must be so strange right now. | 14:43 |
| euod[m] | every time I've been there, even in the small towns, everybody is doing something. | 14:44 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: what do you mean by "doing something"? | 14:44 |
| kinroy | SO how much toilet paper should I buy. | 14:44 |
| euod[m] | <mefistofeles "euod: what do you mean by "doing"> buying vegetables, riding their bike somewhere, going to a pub, just standard dutch things. | 14:44 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: ah you mean like not really isolating themselves and that... I see | 14:45 |
| mefistofeles | that's bad | 14:45 |
| euod[m] | read what I wrote. I'm saying it must be completely unlike that now. | 14:45 |
| AimHere | kinroy, You buy (sheets per wipe * wipes per poop * poops per week * rolls per packet / sheets per roll) packets per week | 14:45 |
| euod[m] | as I assume people are self isolating, which sort of ruins the charm of the netherlands. | 14:45 |
| kinroy | https://twitter.com/Olgeros/status/1241333653889847297 | 14:46 |
| kinroy | Our geoverment tells us keep 1.5 meter distance and evreything will be allright | 14:46 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: ah ok, get it | 14:46 |
| euod[m] | the apartment I had in amsterdam (well, outside of it) was absolutely tiny. I'd go mad being in that small of space for anything more than a couple of days. | 14:46 |
| kinroy | 6 feet for ythose in the USA | 14:46 |
| dhmf[m] | https://youtu.be/rA56B4JyTgI | 14:46 |
| euod[m] | <kinroy "Our geoverment tells us keep 1.5"> that's.. surprisingly dutch of them. | 14:46 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 14:46 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From youtu.be: chill beats to quarantine to - YouTube | 14:47 |
| euod[m] | wonder when I'll be able to go back to NL, if at all. | 14:47 |
| kinroy | Yes we are trying, failing but trying. they closed the nursing homes for vistors yesterday | 14:47 |
| euod[m] | I really enjoyed trying desperately to order things in dutch, or really bad french. | 14:48 |
| kinroy | And the ones wanting a complete lockdown in our political systems are the nazis | 14:48 |
| dhmf[m] | mefistofeles: the great part is that its from Will Smith | 14:48 |
| euod[m] | the worst sandwich I've ever eaten was one I ordered only in dutch, and I could only remember the words for some of the vegetables. | 14:48 |
| kinroy | euod[m]: Well most ppl even in teh sandwich place will speak english | 14:49 |
| dividediff[m] | HeXiLeD: The gf called our 3 local reps to request they close the malls. So my houshold is at 8 call/emails in tot to reps/trudy. Cheers | 14:49 |
| mefistofeles | dhmf[m]: hah nice | 14:49 |
| euod[m] | <kinroy "euod: Well most ppl even in teh "> they thought it was funny and helped me out by speaking like a child. I know everybody is fluent in at least two languages. | 14:49 |
| AimHere | A Dutch person that doesn't speak English is as rare as, umm, an English person who speaks Dutch | 14:49 |
| kinroy | XD | 14:50 |
| euod[m] | I tried and that's what mattered. in france they just got mad at me. | 14:50 |
| dividediff[m] | euod: *french ppl being mad* #quebec ha | 14:51 |
| euod[m] | didn't help that the people we were with were quebecious, so they kept yelling at the parisiansthat their french was wrong. | 14:51 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +258 cases (now 287980), +5 deaths (now 11949) πΉ Algeria: +1 deaths (now 12) πΉ Angola: +1 cases (now 2) πΉ Australia: +4 cases (now 1072) πΉ Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +3 cases (now 9) πΉ New South Wales, Australia: +83 cases (now 436) πΉ Queensland, Australia: +37 cases (now 221) πΉ South Australia, Australia: +17 cases (now 67) [... want %more?] | 14:52 |
| kinroy | Even in Brussels the france ppl are getting angry at you if you try to speak english or dutch. | 14:53 |
| dividediff[m] | Anyone here seen the john oliver skit where he tries to appeal to "the french's sense of superiority"? | 14:54 |
| euod[m] | https://www.toronto.ca/data/transportation/roadrestrictions/CameraImages/loc8032.jpg | 14:54 |
| euod[m] | https://www.toronto.ca/data/transportation/roadrestrictions/CameraImages/loc8013.jpg | 14:54 |
| euod[m] | check out downtown toronto. not a single person around on a saturday morning. | 14:54 |
| dividediff[m] | euod: Does Toronto release cam footage of their roads all the time? | 14:55 |
| euod[m] | <dividediff[m] "euod: Does Toronto release cam f"> yes, surprisingly. you can view every traffic camera in the city, several hundred of them, on an interactive map. https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/streets-parking-transportation/road-restrictions-closures/rescu-traffic-cameras/ | 14:56 |
| kinroy | https://twitter.com/elisewiin/status/1241357038808117256 so scared now for a repeat of Italy here. | 14:56 |
| kinroy | https://rotterdamonderweg.nl/verkeerscameras?q=%2Fverkeerscameras#verkeerscameraModal1448 | 14:57 |
| dividediff[m] | euod: wow niffty. Is it live? | 14:57 |
| euod[m] | woah yours are real time. | 14:58 |
| euod[m] | <dividediff[m] "euod: wow niffty. Is it live?"> they're updated every 5 minutes or so. the ones kinroy linked to are real time video, which is crazy | 14:58 |
| dividediff[m] | kinroy: they should stream on twitch | 14:58 |
| kinroy | Yes if you look at coolsingel-koopgoot you a lot of ppl still doing shoping | 14:59 |
| euod[m] | "Bereikbaarheidsjournaal" and this is why the dutch all know english :P | 14:59 |
| kinroy | less then normaly | 14:59 |
| dividediff[m] | euod: canada right? Has your internet been worse latly? | 14:59 |
| fujisan | hi is anyone here? | 15:00 |
| euod[m] | <dividediff[m] "euod: canada right? Has your int"> not massively slow. the provisioning between my cable modem and the ISP is saturated at peak (which is all of the time now) so seeing less than gigabit speeds, but the actual transit at the data centers seems unaffected. ontario in particular has very good fibre connections across the border into the US, so I wouldn't expect to see any loss of performance unless we're | 15:01 |
| euod[m] | actually very much in trouble. | 15:01 |
| RougeR | heya | 15:01 |
| RougeR | well guys | 15:01 |
| RougeR | i think we now have the only nightclubs/bars open within 1000 miles | 15:01 |
| fujisan | i was wonder i have a cold and shortness of breath when should i be worried ? | 15:01 |
| dividediff[m] | hi | 15:01 |
| fujisan | wondering* | 15:01 |
| euod[m] | <dividediff[m] "euod: canada right? Has your int"> the transit links to europe I believe are saturated, or close to it, but I haven't seen any solid numbers to back that up yet. | 15:02 |
| dividediff[m] | euod: hmm wonder whats up with mine | 15:02 |
| RougeR | have any european countries not shut bars/clubs yet? | 15:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus* at 13:52 UTC: Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Post - March 21 | Questions, images, videos, comments, unconfirmed reports, theories, suggestions β from WHO at 13:52: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/j6CVHw | 15:02 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: Does your country have a telephone talk to nurse service? | 15:02 |
| fujisan | RougeR yes in Belarus they are still playing football they have around 700-800 cases and 0 deaths | 15:03 |
| euod[m] | <dividediff[m] "euod: hmm wonder whats up with m"> it's very possible that the line between your house and your ISP is saturated. they can't handle all of the houses on the cable actually talking at maximum speed, or even close to it. their transit to the internet could also be hitting its limits. if you're seeing slow speeds or packet loss that would likely be the cause of it. | 15:03 |
| fujisan | with public | 15:03 |
| fujisan | dividediff[m]: yeah i know all that i read the information they say a cold and shortness of breath combined with fever is reason to call the doctor | 15:03 |
| fujisan | i have no fever | 15:03 |
| fujisan | i can still do everything it;'s not really severe but im worried it'll get worse | 15:04 |
| fujisan | it's been stable i have been throwing everything at it | 15:04 |
| euod[m] | <dividediff[m] "euod: hmm wonder whats up with m"> if netflix is fine, but the rest of the internet is slow. it means the transit between your ISP and the wider internet is at capacity. netflix hosts all of their content actually at the ISP which means it's not normal internet traffic. | 15:04 |
| fujisan | garlic, echinacea, ginger, curcuma | 15:04 |
| fujisan | and that helps somewhat | 15:04 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: Are you monitoring with a thermometer to check for minor fevers? | 15:05 |
| fujisan | garlic has been used for thousands of years vs viruses ofc. it's no cure it helps somewhat | 15:05 |
| fujisan | yeah i am everyday | 15:05 |
| fujisan | temperature is stable | 15:05 |
| dividediff[m] | euod: huh til! | 15:05 |
| fujisan | i am staying inside | 15:06 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: sounds like you should be okay. When did you get the cold? | 15:06 |
| fujisan | beginning of this week | 15:06 |
| RougeR | fujisan, mnmmm | 15:07 |
| yuriwho | just self isolate and monitor your symptoms | 15:07 |
| fujisan | yes i am doing that | 15:07 |
| fujisan | thanks | 15:08 |
| ubLIX | sad geopolitics, "We cannot afford geopolitical βblackholes.β We need Taiwan in the room, helping to shape the global policy with its highly educated, industrialized and high-tech expertise." - https://time.com/5805629/coronavirus-taiwan/ | 15:08 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: from what i remember i think ppl usually get admitted to hospital on the 7th day of having corona. Meaning their symptoms are pretty not good by the 7th day. Since you said you're doing well, sounds like its just a cold with bad timing | 15:08 |
| fujisan | yeah but i have thrown a lot at it | 15:08 |
| fujisan | eating a lot of garlic and ginger | 15:09 |
| euod[m] | remember the nocebo effect exists. | 15:09 |
| euod[m] | if you think you are sick, you will be sick. | 15:09 |
| fujisan | it's no cure but it helps | 15:09 |
| fujisan | nope garlic has been used for thousands of years vs viruses | 15:09 |
| fujisan | Egyptians already used it | 15:09 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: i sometimes get a nervous cough, maybe a little of somehting like with you too? | 15:09 |
| fujisan | ofc. it's a combination | 15:10 |
| euod[m] | beyond that we can't really tell you anything you can't read online. its your own call to make if you want to talk to a healthcare person about it. | 15:10 |
| fujisan | im not risking the just in case scenario | 15:10 |
| euod[m] | but generally speaking we know their criteria. | 15:10 |
| fujisan | i mean going to hospital now is very dangerous | 15:10 |
| euod[m] | you wouldn't go to a hospital. | 15:10 |
| fujisan | yeah my case isnt severe enough | 15:10 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: yea don't go to hospital, use the tele nurse service worse case | 15:11 |
| fujisan | i have also been turning up the heat it helps me breath easier | 15:11 |
| euod[m] | the three things the CDC says to look out for is fever, cough, shortness of breath. | 15:11 |
| fujisan | yeah i am missing the fever part | 15:11 |
| fujisan | and shortness of breath isnt ultra severe just yet | 15:11 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: usually a dry cough i think | 15:11 |
| fujisan | and no coughing either | 15:11 |
| fujisan | think it might be nerves as well | 15:12 |
| dividediff[m] | oh NO coughing? thats good news | 15:12 |
| fujisan | yeah hardly any | 15:12 |
| fujisan | i mean the phlem makes me cough in the morning but like 1 or 2 a day perhaps | 15:12 |
| fujisan | i have been monitoring | 15:13 |
| fujisan | might it still be mild covid19? | 15:13 |
| AimHere | It's possible. | 15:14 |
| euod[m] | if whatever you have is mild, it seems you don't have anything to be concerned about. | 15:14 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: wo a cough and mild fever unlikely. | 15:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:08 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus, ecco tutti i nuovi orari dei supermercati catena per catena - IlGiornale.it β from WHO at 14:08: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/vHnSuJ | 15:14 |
| fujisan | oh okay but what if my immune system isnt working properly | 15:14 |
| AimHere | The symptoms aren't a big match, plus the incidence in Belarus was apparently very low when you'd have caught it | 15:14 |
| fujisan | i mean cough and fever are signs of a good working immune system right | 15:14 |
| AimHere | fujisan, all the more reason to self-isolate | 15:14 |
| fujisan | yeah i am doing that | 15:15 |
| fujisan | i only go outside in the back of my house to throw away thrash havent been out all week | 15:15 |
| dividediff[m] | if i'm right about the 7 day thing, you're almost past the main corona phase | 15:16 |
| dividediff[m] | main first part** | 15:16 |
| euod[m] | and really you're worried about the severe effects, not having it in general. | 15:17 |
| fujisan | yeah im also worried about infected others | 15:18 |
| fujisan | infecting* | 15:18 |
| euod[m] | if you're self isolated that's not really a concern then :) | 15:18 |
| fujisan | nope | 15:18 |
| bigfoot[m] | Looks not so nice ...Woman in Hospital: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFLSG-7K3Tc | 15:18 |
| fujisan | see the isolation part is something im very good at i have been living alone for 13 years | 15:19 |
| fujisan | i used to have severe agoraphobia | 15:19 |
| fujisan | and it's coming back again | 15:19 |
| dividediff[m] | it's a stressful time | 15:20 |
| dividediff[m] | period | 15:20 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +230 cases (now 288210), +1 deaths (now 11950), +16 recoveries (now 94044) πΉ Algeria: +1 deaths (now 12), +11 recoveries (now 43) πΉ Angola: +1 cases (now 2) πΉ Australia: +4 cases (now 1072) πΉ Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +3 cases (now 9) πΉ New South Wales, Australia: +83 cases (now 436) πΉ Queensland, Australia: +37 cases (now 221) [... want %more?] | 15:22 |
| fujisan | dividediff[m]: yeah | 15:23 |
| dividediff[m] | "About 10 percent of the patients did not initially have the usual symptoms, cough and fever, but instead had diarrhea and nausea first. Other uncommon symptoms included headache, dizziness and abdominal pain." | 15:23 |
| pwr22 | There's a new UK update now, but I didn't know about it | 15:24 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: "The median time from their first symptoms to when they became short of breath was five days; to hospitalization, seven days; and to severe breathing trouble, eight days." | 15:24 |
| kinroy | LOCKDOWN in the uk too>? | 15:24 |
| fujisan | okay ty dividediff[m] | 15:25 |
| fujisan | so the next few days will be crucial for me | 15:25 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: yea. But you said you're 6 days into your cold right? | 15:26 |
| fujisan | yeah | 15:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US hospitals seek $100 billion in aid, Spain death toll tops 1,300 β from WHO at 14:22: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/7xQZ3J | 15:26 |
| fujisan | but the stuff i toke could have delayed it | 15:26 |
| kinroy | https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-s-pub-ban-makes-this-a-dark-day-for-britain closing pub to stop deadly virus == north korea | 15:26 |
| kinroy | ok | 15:26 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: so by tmr you'll prob know, unless you stres too much about it. Easier said then done tho! | 15:26 |
| fujisan | yeah ofc. i stress about it but more in a concern type of fashion | 15:27 |
| dividediff[m] | kinroy: lool what | 15:27 |
| fujisan | i also noticed if i am not sitting but lying down it's better than when i sit | 15:27 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: lying down often makes my breathing worse if i'm sick | 15:28 |
| fujisan | i have the bed tilted somewhat | 15:28 |
| fujisan | 45 degree angle | 15:28 |
| AimHere | "But to halt everyday life, even pub life, in response to it? We didn't do that during the far worse 1918 flu epidemic." <- Maybe he could stop to think why the 1918 flu epidemic was far worse | 15:28 |
| kinroy | dividediff[m]: The barmaid tells us she isnβt sure if they will close at 8 or 10 this evening. 'We are awaiting government instructions'. I canβt believe what I am hearing. I feel like I am in North Korea. | 15:29 |
| euod[m] | people are fucking idiots. | 15:29 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: thats a big tilt ha | 15:29 |
| fujisan | AimHere these are mitigation measures to flatten to curve to prevent the number of casualties 1918 had | 15:29 |
| euod[m] | like we knew that, but this is a good demonstration of it. | 15:29 |
| fujisan | dividediff[m]: yeah | 15:29 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: def keep this room/me updated about how you're doing tho! | 15:29 |
| fujisan | i have acid reflux issues so this is how i sleep normally | 15:29 |
| AimHere | fujisan, yeah, I'm quoting that cerebrally-impaired fuckwit in the linked Spectator article | 15:30 |
| fujisan | yeah will do | 15:30 |
| fujisan | AimHere: oh okay | 15:30 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: how did you set the bed up like that? I HAD an ulcer and my dr said to try to do that | 15:30 |
| fujisan | my bed is adjustable | 15:31 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: like airbed? | 15:31 |
| fujisan | no it's bed bottom i bought it from IKEA for like 90 euros | 15:31 |
| fujisan | it has a mechanism for it | 15:31 |
| fujisan | for simple one but works fine for me | 15:32 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: can you pull up a link/something that looks similar? | 15:32 |
| fujisan | very* | 15:32 |
| fujisan | sure | 15:32 |
| RougeR | pubs still open here | 15:32 |
| fujisan | https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/leirsund-slatted-bed-base-adjustable-50278335/ | 15:32 |
| RougeR | nightclubs still open | 15:32 |
| AimHere | RougeR, where's 'here'? | 15:33 |
| RougeR | Jersey, channel islands | 15:33 |
| dividediff[m] | fujisan: huh, it's like a futon lawnchair | 15:33 |
| RougeR | we have 12 cases and community spread in a 100k pop | 15:33 |
| RougeR | the politicians are being negligent | 15:33 |
| RougeR | they will kill 100s if not 1000 | 15:33 |
| AimHere | Depends on how accurate that 12 cases is | 15:34 |
| AimHere | If they've shut the island up and testing everybody they can, it might just be sane | 15:34 |
| AimHere | Community spread is obviously a huge worry | 15:35 |
| dividediff[m] | RougeR: not NEW jersey right? | 15:35 |
| RougeR | no | 15:36 |
| RougeR | wait yes | 15:36 |
| RougeR | not new jersey | 15:36 |
| RougeR | i will say new jersey if i mean new jersey | 15:36 |
| dividediff[m] | RougeR: the islands near france? | 15:36 |
| RougeR | yes | 15:36 |
| RougeR | <RougeR> Jersey, channel islands | 15:36 |
| dividediff[m] | RougeR: first time i've ever heard of the place i think | 15:37 |
| RougeR | itll be on the map soon....its going to be decimated | 15:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 14:31 UTC: Coronavirus: One in five Americans ordered to stay at home: As the US battles the coronavirus outbreak, "non-essential" travel from Canada and Mexico is halted. β from WHO at 14:31: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/M2Lcja | 15:38 |
| pwr22 | dividediff are you from the US? | 15:38 |
| dividediff[m] | pwr22: canada. So it's like 60% us news and 100% us media | 15:39 |
| pwr22 | Ah | 15:39 |
| dividediff[m] | RougeR: in canada the politican woke up when it was crunch time | 15:39 |
| RougeR | they are slowly doing it here | 15:40 |
| RougeR | not quick enough | 15:40 |
| dividediff[m] | pwr22: you? | 15:40 |
| pwr22 | UK | 15:40 |
| pwr22 | People who are complaining about pubs closing.... Well I don't have nice words for them | 15:41 |
| pwr22 | And moaning about needing to drink at home? Maybe just not drink, hardly essential for living | 15:41 |
| dividediff[m] | pwr22: r u... peter roberts? | 15:41 |
| pwr22 | Yes, I changed my nickname because it confused people on IRC | 15:42 |
| AimHere | pwr22, if they want to drink at home, that's fine though. Whatever they want to do, do it at home | 15:42 |
| dividediff[m] | pwr22: i was confused on riot haha | 15:42 |
| dividediff[m] | pwr22: cov bot isn't working for vatican city | 15:44 |
| euod[m] | steam just hit a new logged in users record. | 15:45 |
| pwr22 | !cases holy see | 15:45 |
| CovBot | In Holy See there have been a total of 1 cases as of 2020-03-13 22:22:02 UTC. Of these 1 (100.0%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 0 (0.0%) have definitely recovered and 0 (0.0%) have died. | 15:46 |
| RougeR | pwr22, here they wont close | 15:46 |
| RougeR | its insanity | 15:46 |
| pwr22 | Yeah | 15:46 |
| RougeR | people are out clubs bars cafes | 15:46 |
| RougeR | im on hold with the guardian atm | 15:46 |
| pwr22 | People were still doing it here yesterday | 15:46 |
| pwr22 | One last night out π€¦ββοΈ | 15:47 |
| dividediff[m] | pwr22: huh, does holy see not = vatican city? | 15:47 |
| pwr22 | Holy see is what's on the dataset | 15:47 |
| dividediff[m] | wiki says that there is some kind of difference between those. til | 15:48 |
| Jigsy | https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/21/scottish-hotel-admin-error-sacking-staff-covid-19 | 15:52 |
| Jigsy | "J-J-J-JUST AN ERROR, BRO!" | 15:52 |
| Jigsy | Pathetic. | 15:52 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +335 cases (now 288545), +2 deaths (now 11952), +10 recoveries (now 94054) πΈ Germany: +359 cases (now 21652) πΉ Algeria: +1 deaths (now 12), +11 recoveries (now 43) πΉ Angola: +1 cases (now 2) πΉ Argentina: +1 deaths (now 4) πΉ Australia: +4 cases (now 1072) πΉ Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +3 cases (now 9) [... want %more?] | 15:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:56 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US hospitals seek $100 billion in aid, Spain death toll tops 1,300 β from WHO at 14:56: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/7xQZ3J | 16:02 |
| AimHere | %data uk | 16:04 |
| Brainstorm | AimHere: In all areas, United Kingdom, there are 4072 cases, 177 deaths (4.3% of cases), 65 recoveries as of March 21, 14:49Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 16:04 |
| adventurer | anyone in this room have corona virus? | 16:07 |
| pwr22 | My brother might have it and one of my friends | 16:08 |
| pwr22 | Neither live in the same city as me | 16:08 |
| adventurer | tested positive? | 16:09 |
| adventurer | talked of symptoms? | 16:09 |
| pwr22 | They are self isolating | 16:09 |
| pwr22 | They haven't been tested | 16:09 |
| adventurer | how sick are they | 16:11 |
| adventurer | did you talk to them pwr22 | 16:12 |
| pwr22 | He LjL | 16:12 |
| pwr22 | adventurer: my brother seems to be doing better, friend is still pretty bad atm | 16:12 |
| pwr22 | <pwr22 "He LjL "> *hi | 16:12 |
| pwr22 | I've been playing Call of Duty Warzone with my brother | 16:13 |
| adventurer | how bad pwr22 in hospital or at home? | 16:13 |
| LjL | pwr22, are they in hospital? | 16:13 |
| pwr22 | No | 16:13 |
| pwr22 | They're self-isolating at home | 16:13 |
| R00T_UK | hi all | 16:19 |
| LjL | hi | 16:19 |
| R00T_UK | hope all is well | 16:19 |
| R00T_UK | Why is no1 talking about this? youtube.com/watch?v=bYGaRscwtCk | 16:19 |
| LjL | R00T_UK, because it's utterly irrelevant and silly i suspect is the reason | 16:20 |
| LjL | i'm glad you hope all is well, but posting nonsense makes me less well, for a start | 16:20 |
| AimHere | R00T_UK, because nobody believes in reincarnation. And the racist coffin dodger isn't actually dead yet | 16:20 |
| R00T_UK | he said it himself actually | 16:21 |
| LjL | don't care | 16:21 |
| R00T_UK | also harry an meg joked about spreading it | 16:21 |
| R00T_UK | then queen fucks of out the country with them | 16:21 |
| LjL | topic closed | 16:21 |
| R00T_UK | highly suspect | 16:21 |
| R00T_UK | fu mug | 16:22 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +236 cases (now 288781), +6 deaths (now 11958), +5 recoveries (now 94059) πΉ Algeria: +1 deaths (now 12), +11 recoveries (now 43) πΉ Angola: +1 cases (now 2) πΉ Argentina: +1 deaths (now 4) πΉ Australia: +4 cases (now 1072) πΉ Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +3 cases (now 9) πΉ New South Wales, Australia: +83 cases (now 436) [... want %more?] | 16:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 15:24 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The New York Times has apparently replicated the "time aligned" death trajectory visualization previously only available behind a paywall at the Financial Times, and has gone further to create similar alignments to compare across US states. [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/mAnRaJ | 16:26 |
| LjL | freebies? oh thank you NYT God! | 16:28 |
| LjL | except i get that curve for free from tinwhiskers and it's better, that is | 16:28 |
| python476 | o/ | 16:35 |
| python476 | let's stop all this bs | 16:35 |
| LjL | ah | 16:35 |
| LjL | i did smell onions | 16:35 |
| python476 | and just stem cell engineer human skin to emit alcohol | 16:36 |
| python476 | 7billion walking sanitizer | 16:36 |
| LjL | just drink a lot of it and it'll happen | 16:36 |
| python476 | LjL yeah but we need to add a booze fuse to the liver | 16:36 |
| LjL | true | 16:36 |
| python476 | just came back from grocerie shopping | 16:37 |
| python476 | such a weird mild post apocalyptic feel | 16:38 |
| AimHere | Did you have to knife-fight in the car-park for the last bag of doritos? | 16:38 |
| python476 | AimHere: not to that point but you can see people are slightly bubbling inside | 16:38 |
| python476 | store clerk reminded us to stay behind a distance line | 16:38 |
| python476 | some dude became angry because he didn't like the tone | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Our COVID links at 15:32 UTC: ljl-covid: Add covid19info.live β from WHO at 15:32: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/daJ338 | 16:39 |
| LjL | how the hell | 16:39 |
| LjL | i pushed a ton of updates in the past few days and Brainstorm NEVER picked them up | 16:39 |
| LjL | now i changed nothing, nothing at all, and it picks it up | 16:39 |
| python476 | parts of the store being closed means people are lost, confusing orders | 16:39 |
| LjL | python476, i'm afraid you mean pre-apocalyptic | 16:39 |
| python476 | well you can argue that yes | 16:40 |
| LjL | python476, in (some of) our supermarkets, staff are urging people to shop quickly, because only a few can be inside at any given time | 16:40 |
| LjL | i get anxious enough in supermarkets without THAT | 16:40 |
| python476 | yeah I thought about this | 16:40 |
| python476 | I was roaming a bit too long | 16:41 |
| python476 | but the supermarket tried to streamlined things to make people come one way, shop quick and leave to another exit | 16:41 |
| LjL | python476, i don't think we have the "keep the distance from clerk" thing in supermarkets (they just wear masks if they can), but we do have that at our pharmacy. yellow lines on the ground, and the pharmacists are wearing hoods | 16:41 |
| LjL | also we go in, print our queue ticket, and then have to wait outside | 16:42 |
| python476 | LjL: yeah the guy just showed us the line | 16:42 |
| python476 | it was black and hard to see | 16:42 |
| LjL | python476, anyway, bad news, just imitating italy won't work | 16:43 |
| LjL | it isn't working for us | 16:43 |
| LjL | take it one step further. you know, like you can take an italian dish, except make it in a much smaller portion, grind it, and serve it in the form of a soup | 16:44 |
| LjL | so like, take our approach, make it much more restrictive, and then grind people who break the rules | 16:44 |
| python476 | we'll see how it goes | 16:45 |
| python476 | I saw almost nobody out on my way so that's goo | 16:45 |
| python476 | good | 16:45 |
| LjL | python476, where are you, a village, town, city...? | 16:46 |
| python476 | 5 km from CdG airport | 16:46 |
| python476 | i sit at the boundary between semi dense cities outside of paris, and spacious suburbs with fields | 16:47 |
| LjL | oh so you're where they periodically riot and burn things | 16:47 |
| LjL | are you responsible | 16:47 |
| python476 | responsible as in cleaning my hands periodically or as in burning cars periodically ? :D | 16:48 |
| LjL | pourquoi pas le deux | 16:48 |
| python476 | and yeah, the 2005 riots started in the town next mine | 16:48 |
| LjL | %tr pourquoi pas le deux | 16:48 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, French to English: why not both (MyMemory, Google) β @pourquoi the @deux (Apertium) | 16:48 |
| LjL | les would have helped | 16:48 |
| LjL | but i wasn't sure about deux actually | 16:48 |
| python476 | LjL: no I tend to like restoring cars rather than burning them | 16:49 |
| LjL | python476, so you're only a D on the internet | 16:49 |
| python476 | I can a be a D anywhere | 16:49 |
| python476 | I realize I have no updated map for french areas | 16:50 |
| LjL | i didn't doubt dat | 16:50 |
| LjL | hmm i don't have a france-specific tracker in my sleeve | 16:50 |
| python476 | yeah, gonna ask r/france .. | 16:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:45 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US hospitals seek $100 billion in aid, Spain death toll tops 1,300 β from WHO at 15:45: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/7xQZ3J | 16:51 |
| LjL | python476, make sure they don't ban you like r/italy did me for talking about it | 16:51 |
| LjL | (that's not strictly true, they banned me for *complaining* that a post about it was deleted) | 16:51 |
| python476 | nah it's alright, things are still calm enough to talk | 16:52 |
| LjL | ... and now i've been banned from r/europe, well, my bot has, anyway | 16:53 |
| LjL | despite the fact i had AGREED with its mods to post earthquake posts there | 16:53 |
| LjL | can people ever not be moron | 16:53 |
| LjL | s | 16:53 |
| python476 | what's next | 16:53 |
| python476 | r/world ban ? | 16:54 |
| python476 | reddit is my last virtual home, I've been kicked from twitter and some other place I forgot | 16:54 |
| Jigsy | I hate Twitter with a passion. | 16:55 |
| Jigsy | Glad I've never used it. | 16:55 |
| python476 | Jigsy: I like twitter, some bits of it | 16:56 |
| python476 | but some hyprocryt triggered me and I made a mean joke | 16:56 |
| python476 | the kind of mean joke that is quite mean but good enough to not apologize for it | 16:57 |
| python476 | Jigsy: like most socnets you have to pick your area | 16:57 |
| python476 | reddit has sick and cool subs | 16:57 |
| python476 | twitter is full of nice smart people and creative dudes | 16:57 |
| LjL | python476, the r/world ban may come from covid | 16:59 |
| LjL | python476, at least i was appreciated here https://np.reddit.com/r/Earthquakes/comments/fkp9zb/utah_earthquake_likely_moderate_at_1309_utc_from/ (and really the warning was timelier than most) but i hadn't even noticed until today because i was looking at... well, entirely other stuff | 17:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:57 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: I sindaci chiedono un nuovo intervento al governo: "PiΓΉ controlli". Quelli della provincia di Bergamo: "Fermiamo tutto" - la Repubblica β from WHO at 15:57: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/3XOO8j | 17:03 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %data Turkey | 17:05 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +2982 cases (now 291763), +3 deaths (now 11961), +1 recoveries (now 94060) πΈ US: +2885 cases (now 22708), +3 deaths (now 279) πΉ Algeria: +7 cases (now 102), +1 deaths (now 12), +11 recoveries (now 43) πΉ Angola: +1 cases (now 2) πΉ Argentina: +1 deaths (now 4) πΉ Australia: +4 cases (now 1072) πΉ Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +3 cases (now 9) [... want %more?] | 17:05 |
| Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 670 cases, 9 deaths (1.3% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 01:43Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 17:05 |
| tinwhiskers | Morning folks | 17:09 |
| python476 | o/ | 17:11 |
| tinwhiskers | I see this new tracker someone mentioned overnight. https://google.org/crisisresponse/covid19-map it's pretty current so I'll add it in as another source. Worldometers still seems a little more fresh though (or double counts more) | 17:11 |
| LjL | %addpoint tinwhiskers | 17:12 |
| Brainstorm | tinwhiskers: +2/-0, 2 | 17:12 |
| AimHere | https://i.redd.it/j767xmve20o41.jpg <- 2019 was a long time ago | 17:12 |
| Jigsy | Those charts are always bullshit. | 17:13 |
| Jigsy | Same with the freedom index. | 17:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:06 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US hospitals seek $100 billion in aid, Spain death toll tops 1,300 β from WHO at 16:06: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/7xQZ3J | 17:15 |
| billyswong | Hi guys. People in Hong Kong & Taiwan are sharing in Facebook about some possible evidence of how severe the actual situation of China is. | 17:17 |
| LjL | Jigsy, "bullshit"? just because the numbers don't reflect what we'd *want* them to reflect (like the real, total positives, instead of only the ones two *tested* positive) doesn't make the numbers bullshit | 17:18 |
| Jigsy | It's not the numbers, it's the "it doesn't accurately reflect what's going on." | 17:18 |
| LjL | it just makes the numbers what they are, numbers that have to be analyzed using statistical methods, and, either not taken at face value, or only taken at face value while knowing full well what their face value *is* | 17:18 |
| Jigsy | Even the UK was waving it's arms around for days before it decided to get shit together. | 17:18 |
| LjL | yes, numbers rarely do | 17:19 |
| billyswong | They found from reports of mobile network companies in China that, in the Jan and Feb 2020, they lost over 14 million mobile users | 17:19 |
| LjL | billyswong, i saw that being posted recently. do we really have any hard evidence that this *should* be linked with deaths, as opposed to a lot of general disruption? | 17:20 |
| jacklsw | thought china said no more new case from locals | 17:20 |
| AimHere | It seems super implausible for those numbers to be caused by deaths; news would have leeched out, as well as viral outbreaks elsewhere | 17:22 |
| billyswong | China have widespread mobile payment system. Losing the mobile number may mean one can't even buy a bread or take a cab. | 17:22 |
| tinwhiskers | jacklsw: hubei province hasn't had any new cases for three days now, but there are still some cases trickling in over the whole country | 17:23 |
| LjL | AimHere, well, *some* people do seem to be "whistleblowing" that Chinese government claims are untrue, so some news do leak, but keep in mind China's internet was rather closed to begin with | 17:23 |
| LjL | that is not to say any of this is true | 17:23 |
| LjL | but i'm keeping an open mind | 17:23 |
| iz | lol | 17:23 |
| AimHere | Yeah, it could be that the claims are untrue, but you'd expect to see signs of an out of control epidemic | 17:24 |
| iz | i heard ppl are sayin a thing on facebook | 17:24 |
| iz | must be 14 million unreported deaths | 17:24 |
| iz | c'mon | 17:24 |
| AimHere | They couldn't cover up the outbreak in Wuhan, How are they managing to cover up something that must be at least a couple of orders of magnitude bigger | 17:25 |
| iz | yeah, just use a little common sense | 17:25 |
| LjL | i'm just not ruling out there may be a kernel of truth. 14 million dead does sound like... just no. | 17:26 |
| Biep[m] | <euod[m] "every time I've been there, even"> We still are, at least in the parts I see. Still lots of people in the streets, though less than before. | 17:26 |
| Biep[m] | <AimHere "kinroy, You buy (sheets per wipe"> I suppose you meant `(sheets per wipe * wipes per poop * poops per week) / (rolls per packet * sheets per roll)`. | 17:27 |
| AimHere | Biep[m], that does sound right. I stand corrected | 17:28 |
| billyswong | China has 1.4 billion people. 14 million over 1.4 billion equals 1 in 100. It may not be death of 1 in 100, but plausible for lost of contact to civilization (by virus / military) | 17:29 |
| LjL | 1 out of 100 is not something people fail to notice | 17:29 |
| LjL | on average it'll mean any given person will know about at least one "disappearance", using rough numbers | 17:29 |
| Biep[m] | <euod[m] "yes, surprisingly. you can view "> That ought to be standard in a non-totalitarian society - *if* they put out cameras (which they shouldn't) they ought to be inspectable. Though I realise that makes it easier for others to follow you.. | 17:30 |
| AimHere | And then there's the question of mass graves, of people escaping china physically, whistleblowers who get onto the internet to denounce the lies | 17:31 |
| billyswong | Many provinces and villages have been locked / forbidden from travelling to each other or going out. | 17:31 |
| billyswong | So it's not hard for 1 in 100 to go unnoticed by those that "trust" the Chinese gov | 17:32 |
| tinwhiskers | AimHere: yes, but people just make crap up too, so you shouldn't blindly believe *anything* about China | 17:33 |
| AimHere | There's still 14 million dead bodies to deal with. | 17:33 |
| iz | billyswong: i don't think you realize how big of a number 14 million is | 17:33 |
| tinwhiskers | It's entirely possible China is fudging their numbers a bit but nothing that dramatic | 17:34 |
| redlegion | I dunno, they pretty much have free reign over their output. After all, nothing happened at tiananmen. | 17:34 |
| redlegion | ;) | 17:34 |
| billyswong | China is almost as big as the whole Europe | 17:35 |
| AimHere | redlegion, case in point | 17:35 |
| tinwhiskers | There's enough expats living there that we have a fair idea of what's going on | 17:35 |
| redlegion | tinwhiskers: that's a fair point | 17:35 |
| iz | 14 million over double the amount of ppl executed in the holocaust of ww2 | 17:35 |
| AimHere | It could just be loss of economic activity meaning people ditching their work phones or something similar | 17:37 |
| billyswong | The Great Leap Forward led by Mao killed 30 million. In such famine period, China continued selling food to foreign countries for money | 17:38 |
| AimHere | If a company has shut down for a month, the guys updating the contracts can't go into work to renew them | 17:38 |
| tinwhiskers | Tiananmen may be an open secret inside China but it's not a good example of China covering up something from the rest of the world. | 17:39 |
| AimHere | billyswong, that was something where a) the Chinese government failed to cover it up and b) Chinese people weren't hooked up with a science fiction videophone to a global communication network | 17:39 |
| iz | billyswong: okay, here's another way to think of it then, there have been like 12k deaths from coronavirus worldwide, including the known cases in china | 17:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:25 UTC: Italy: Coronavirus news: Thousands more beds and 20,000 extra staff to aid fight in UK β live updates β from WHO at 16:25: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/SrLj3D | 17:39 |
| billyswong | @AimHere, indeed maybe 9 out of 10 MOBILE phone number is company phone, this still leave us 1.4 million. | 17:40 |
| iz | if there were 14 million deaths in china covered up from covid-19, that would be 1166 times the worldwide death rate | 17:40 |
| sneep | Where's the original source? | 17:40 |
| iz | billyswong: just use common sense | 17:40 |
| AimHere | billyswong, there are a billion mobile phones in China. | 17:40 |
| iz | it's something he heard somewhere | 17:40 |
| iz | lol | 17:40 |
| AimHere | Closer to 1.5 billion | 17:40 |
| AimHere | 14 million is one thousandth of them | 17:41 |
| AimHere | * one hundredth | 17:41 |
| sneep | There are a lot of Chinese people who live outside China | 17:41 |
| sneep | If their friends suddenly "broke off contact" they would probably notice that something is off pretty quick | 17:42 |
| sneep | Even ssuming that this report isn't made up out of thin air, maybe some areas decided to make their phone networks free to use? That could cause a lot of people to cancel | 17:43 |
| tinwhiskers | That sort of thing might happen without people knowing in North Korea, but not China. They are no angels but the levels of disappearings are not quite on that scale. Sounds just like routine... internet bullshit to be ignored | 17:45 |
| billyswong | Cm'on, how can one cancel his/her own mobile phone account just because it become free? Who to dial to when one can't get oneself be dialed | 17:45 |
| LjL | <billyswong> China is almost as big as the whole Europe β what do you mean "almost", the continent of europe as normally defined is just about the same as china, and if you more realistically take the EU and surroundings for the political purposes we are likely considering here, then that's much smaller | 17:46 |
| LjL | devil's advocate, but i would also keep in mind that Europe and the US are now very intent at looking at themselves | 17:47 |
| LjL | i'm not sure even if China had many whistleblowers, they would be attentively listened to right now | 17:47 |
| sneep | billyswong: Where's the link? For all we know you could have made up this story on the spot | 17:48 |
| billyswong | All are Mandarin/Cantonese FB post or Chinese web pages. | 17:49 |
| jacklsw | and now almost all countries lockdown | 17:50 |
| jacklsw | spread from local clusters. all gathering must stop | 17:50 |
| billyswong | https://www.facebook.com/cablefinance/photos/a.169861656398247/3064965350221182/?type=3&theater This one is about one of the mobile company, posted by a HongKong TV channel | 17:50 |
| LjL | sneep, https://np.reddit.com/r/Wuhan_Flu/comments/flzyrb/potentially_7254000_dead_in_china_according_to/ | 17:50 |
| yuriwho | LjL: perhaps add tis to the resources..... here's a useful guide for self care, isolation and deciding if you actually need to go to the hospital (don't go unless you NEED to): https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/20/self-triage-tool-covid-19/ | 17:51 |
| sneep | "This community is quarantined. It may contain misinformation or hoax content. For medically accurate information about the 2019 novel coronavirus, please see the resources available at the Centers for Disease Control." Nice | 17:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:40 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Conferenza stampa 21 marzo 2020 ore 18.00 della Protezione Civile β from WHO at 16:40: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/a4BcJJ | 17:51 |
| LjL | yuriwho, done, added at the end of "Do I have it?" | 17:53 |
| LjL | sneep, yeah, i think that's something either Reddit mandated for some subs, or that they did themselves to avoid too much criticism, i'm not sure. | 17:54 |
| billyswong | @sneep, that's not unexpected by Reddit, as it's been bought up by China. https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/11/reddit-300-million/ | 17:54 |
| LjL | it doesn't automatically mean anything posted there will be untrue, but it's obvious it should be taken with a truckload of salt | 17:54 |
| sneep | billyswong: What do you think about the flat Earth theory? | 17:58 |
| billyswong | sneep, I am considering you are hinting an insult by mentioning flat earth crap when we are talking serious pandemic issue | 18:00 |
| tinwhiskers | So if phone accounts were terminated two months after non-payment then over a million people died from covid-19 in November, according to that theory | 18:00 |
| sneep | billyswong: Could be | 18:00 |
| mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: really? source? | 18:00 |
| LjL | ... | 18:01 |
| mefistofeles | oh nvm, out of conteset | 18:01 |
| mefistofeles | context xD | 18:01 |
| tinwhiskers | I think it's far more likely considering how much footage and information we have about extreme lockdowns occurring that they really are reducing cases something along the lines of that reported. Lockdowns do work | 18:01 |
| tinwhiskers | We have South Korea as evidence that it can be controlled | 18:02 |
| LjL | i've still been too lazy to actually research what SK and Taiwan did | 18:02 |
| LjL | aside from generic "extensive testing and phone tracking of people" | 18:03 |
| mefistofeles | according to common theory/models, Korea went for suppression which makes it likely to have an outbreak laters in a few months | 18:03 |
| LjL | Korea may be on its way to a second wave already, i'm afraid | 18:03 |
| LjL | it looked like that last time i looked at the graph... | 18:03 |
| LjL | %data korea | 18:03 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Korea, South, there are 8799 cases, 102 deaths (1.2% of cases), 2612 recoveries as of March 21, 16:48Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Korea,%20South for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.4% (assuming deaths/cases with β of cases undetected), and less than 3.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 18:03 |
| billyswong | lockdowns work. just that Chinese gov is a habitual liar - thus I won't there being 0 new cases now (more likely 0 new tested-and-reported cases) | 18:03 |
| sneep | Singapore and Japan and Hong Kong are all doing fine, just by doing careful tracing/testing/quarantine | 18:03 |
| romare | %data italy | 18:04 |
| Brainstorm | romare: In all areas, Italy, there are 47021 cases, 4032 deaths (8.6% of cases), 5129 recoveries as of March 21, 16:48Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 18:04 |
| AimHere | There's no obvious uptick in cases/deaths in SK | 18:04 |
| oriba | sneep: I heard that Japan is rather testing not enough... | 18:04 |
| LjL | also, hey, whoever used to hate my bot's computed fatality rates' upper and lower bounds (which are now only shown when they are "plausible" anyway), now they are not so implausible for countries like SK where we have data, are they | 18:04 |
| bn_mobile | [itchyjunk]: It happened, like I said, Stafford Act was invoked, at least for NY | 18:04 |
| tinwhiskers | billyswong: that's reasonable, but to say millions of deaths are being covered up is far less reasonable | 18:04 |
| LjL | AimHere, you're right, there was an uptick the day before yesterday but today's data make it look more like it was just random jitter | 18:04 |
| LjL | well | 18:04 |
| LjL | hmm | 18:04 |
| LjL | AimHere, i don't know, enable non-authoritative | 18:05 |
| LjL | i feel there is a tiny bit of an uptick after all | 18:05 |
| JoeLlama | *cough* | 18:05 |
| LjL | yes hi JoeLlama | 18:05 |
| JoeLlama | hi hi | 18:05 |
| JoeLlama | I am off in search of organic tortillas today. hope I don't catch nothin | 18:06 |
| Joe | NY does nothing alone, bn_mobile | 18:06 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: why is there a gap for some countries in the Doubling time? Is there a data loss between 2020-02-16 and 2020-02-25? | 18:06 |
| oriba | example germany | 18:06 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: hrm. yes, it will be interesting to see if SK can keep a handle on that climb. It does look kinda like they are slipping a bit. | 18:06 |
| bn_mobile | Joe: meaning? they always fall back on the Feds? | 18:07 |
| LjL | Trump is apparently holding an emergency press conference now | 18:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US hospitals seek $100 billion in aid, Spain death toll tops 1,300 β from WHO at 17:02: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/7xQZ3J | 18:07 |
| Joe | no we are all in Cuomostan now, NY/NJ/CT/PA | 18:07 |
| bn_mobile | LjL: yep | 18:07 |
| Joe | so the coalition of states have called up the stafford act. | 18:08 |
| bn_mobile | Joe: what? why would Cuomo have jurisdiction over CT/PA? | 18:08 |
| LjL | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Auq9mYxFEE β Trump press conference | 18:08 |
| Timvde | What the hell? | 18:08 |
| Joe | why ? | 18:08 |
| Timvde | %cases Belgium | 18:08 |
| Brainstorm | Timvde: In all areas, Belgium, there are 2815 cases, 67 deaths (2.4% of cases), 263 recoveries as of March 21, 11:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Belgium for time series data. | 18:08 |
| Joe | They decided this a week ago, he is leading the way for choices. | 18:09 |
| JoeLlama | moo Joe | 18:09 |
| Timvde | https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Belgium puts the recoveries back to 1 | 18:09 |
| livebrain | moo JoeLlama | 18:09 |
| LjL | Timvde, what the hell what? | 18:09 |
| Timvde | ^ That | 18:10 |
| LjL | Timvde, oh | 18:10 |
| LjL | Timvde, sometimes there are glitches like that, *especially* with recoveries | 18:10 |
| LjL | i never look at recoveries | 18:10 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: some of the doubling times go crazy, particularly at early times when there was no real growth in numbers. If you have a flat growth for the period of the regression the doubling time approaches infinity so I decided to remove crazy values over 150 days or something like that | 18:10 |
| bn_mobile | Defense Production Act invoked | 18:10 |
| Timvde | LjL: Just wondering if they are actually declared as not recovered again | 18:10 |
| Timvde | Or just a data glitch | 18:10 |
| LjL | bn_mobile, has it? i believe that's sort of a big deal | 18:11 |
| LjL | Timvde, i'd lean towards glitch, just because i often see some of those, but i dunno | 18:11 |
| bn_mobile | LjL: you watching? that's what PoTUS just claimed | 18:11 |
| sneep | that's yesterday's news @defense production act | 18:11 |
| LjL | bn_mobile, i'm watching at the url i linked but i missed that | 18:11 |
| JoeLlama | *cough* | 18:11 |
| LjL | sneep, ... but it's a live press conference? | 18:12 |
| JoeLlama | gunna actually wear a mask today when I have to head out :/ | 18:12 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: thx for explanation. maybe it could be mentioned somewhere? Or drawing a dotted line there? | 18:12 |
| JoeLlama | not a good mask really and also masks are not very protective anyways | 18:12 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: yeah, I could improve that | 18:12 |
| LjL | Spec, oh lawd, Made-in-West-Virginia hand sanitizer | 18:12 |
| JoeLlama | they help in the spread if you are already sick but.... not for preventing it | 18:12 |
| sneep | LjL: what he's currently saying appears to me like a recap of stuff that happened recently | 18:13 |
| JoeLlama | trump is talking on the radio now | 18:13 |
| oriba | LjL: ok, now I see what you meant with non-reliable recovery data, heheh | 18:13 |
| LjL | sneep, hmm. well, last i heard the defense production act had *not* been invoked, but that may have been before yesterday | 18:13 |
| Spec | LjL: the best | 18:13 |
| Spec | LjL: not better than my made-in-va hand sanitizer, but. | 18:13 |
| LjL | oriba, sometimes what it takes is just looking at the graphs fairly often :P | 18:13 |
| LjL | %cases va | 18:13 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Virginia, US, there are 122 cases, 2 deaths (1.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 01:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 18:13 |
| LjL | %cases wv | 18:14 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In West Virginia, US, there are 7 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 01:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 18:14 |
| sneep | https://time.com/5807314/trump-defense-production-act-coronavirus/ Updated: March 20, 2020 1:26 PM EDT | Originally published: March 20, 2020 12:51 PM EDT | 18:14 |
| oriba | LjL: can you recite the numbers too? | 18:14 |
| LjL | 0% death rate because they are invincible | 18:14 |
| sneep | %title | 18:14 |
| LjL | oriba, lol, no | 18:14 |
| Brainstorm | sneep: From time.com: Trump Invokes Defense Production Act to Get Medical Supplies | Time | 18:14 |
| LjL | sneep, thanks. well, it's a big deal anyway, even if it was already a big deal yesterday :) | 18:14 |
| JoeLlama | Corona Map: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html | 18:15 |
| LjL | Spec, VA's graph isn't even really looking like a graph yet | 18:15 |
| sneep | Mike Pence seems pretty competent | 18:15 |
| LjL | JoeLlama, isn't that just the usual map except embedded into another webpage? | 18:15 |
| JoeLlama | no that is john hopkins | 18:16 |
| JoeLlama | that IS the map | 18:16 |
| LjL | yes, as is the map we normally use | 18:16 |
| bn_mobile | sigh... MPenzzzzzz | 18:16 |
| LjL | no | 18:16 |
| JoeLlama | no? | 18:16 |
| JoeLlama | confused | 18:16 |
| bn_mobile | Mr. PRzzz | 18:16 |
| LjL | JoeLlama, the map can be accessed directly from the URL https://plague.com/ that someone else presumably made, but let me get the actual url | 18:17 |
| JoeLlama | oh ok | 18:17 |
| LjL | https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 | 18:17 |
| JoeLlama | I tend to trust john hopkins so;.. | 18:17 |
| LjL | it's under "Trackers" in the topic link | 18:17 |
| JoeLlama | I'll stick with that url | 18:17 |
| LjL | JoeLlama, that IS their url | 18:17 |
| JoeLlama | yup | 18:17 |
| tinwhiskers | JoeLlama: JH data is terrible | 18:17 |
| JoeLlama | John Hopkins | 18:17 |
| JoeLlama | I'll stick with them | 18:18 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, if it was so terrible you'd not be using them :P | 18:18 |
| JoeLlama | it's okay (: | 18:18 |
| JoeLlama | moo | 18:18 |
| tinwhiskers | Terrible, but still probably the best :-/ | 18:18 |
| tinwhiskers | I just want to slap them | 18:18 |
| LjL | JoeLlama, please have a look at the resources page in the channel topic, and you will there is an article by John Hopkins introducing their map, as well as the (long) link to the map itself. the only advantage that https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html has is that it's shorter than the arcgis url, and that it contains buttons to other John Hopkins page. the rather big drawback is that it makes the map smaller. | 18:19 |
| LjL | gah | 18:19 |
| LjL | %tell JoeLlama: please have a look at the resources page in the channel topic, and you will there is an article by John Hopkins introducing their map, as well as the (long) link to the map itself. the only advantage that https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html has is that it's shorter than the arcgis url, and that it contains buttons to other John Hopkins page. the rather big drawback is that it makes the map smaller. | 18:19 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I'll pass JoeLlama your message when they are around. | 18:19 |
| X-Scale | The new numbers from Italy are just staggering | 18:20 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +6922 cases (now 298372), +801 deaths (now 12785), +943 recoveries (now 95026) πΈ Veneto, Italy: +586 cases (now 4617), +15 deaths (now 146), +34 recoveries (now 257) πΈ Toscana, Italy: +219 cases (now 2012), +25 deaths (now 72), +2 recoveries (now 35) πΈ Piemonte, Italy: +291 cases (now 3752), +29 deaths (now 238) [... want %more?] | 18:21 |
| Arsanerit | Is the rate of growth increasing (in %, not in absolute numbers)? | 18:21 |
| AimHere | More people died of Covid-19 yesterday, than died in the first SARS outbreak | 18:21 |
| sneep | Oh it's all split up into different regions | 18:21 |
| tomeaton17 | %data england | 18:21 |
| Brainstorm | tomeaton17: Sorry, england not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 18:21 |
| tomeaton17 | %data united kingdom | 18:22 |
| Brainstorm | tomeaton17: In Bermuda, United Kingdom, there are 2 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 03:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Bermuda for time series data. | 18:22 |
| Arsanerit | Since the growth is exponential, may I suggest the bot adds % growth as well as growth in absolute numbers? | 18:22 |
| LjL | sneep, not for all countries, only some | 18:22 |
| AimHere | %data uk | 18:22 |
| Brainstorm | AimHere: In Bermuda, United Kingdom, there are 2 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 03:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Bermuda for time series data. | 18:22 |
| Arsanerit | bad bot | 18:22 |
| LjL | oh. crap. italy. the press conference. | 18:22 |
| LjL | someone should remind me! | 18:22 |
| tomeaton17 | %data britain | 18:22 |
| Brainstorm | tomeaton17: In Bermuda, United Kingdom, there are 2 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 03:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Bermuda for time series data. | 18:22 |
| tomeaton17 | hmm | 18:22 |
| LjL | --- starting translation | 18:22 |
| LjL | ... it helps getting over this infection. | 18:22 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: the doubling time for the world is getting lower, so the rate is increasing | 18:22 |
| LjL | this is extremely important, it is the key measure: respecting the rules. | 18:23 |
| AimHere | Today's Britain figures on worldometers are unreasonably low. Only 111 new infections and 3 deaths which I don't buy for a second | 18:23 |
| LjL | If we don't do it, it's not just our problem, but it's our neighbors' problem, it's a problem for the part of society that may have the worst effect if they get hit. | 18:23 |
| LjL | Thank you. | 18:23 |
| Arsanerit | In the best case, the reported rates should start decreasing two weeks after the Italy lockdown started. | 18:23 |
| sneep | worldometer's "new cases" column has been weird for a couple weeks | 18:23 |
| sneep | (or what feels like weeks) | 18:23 |
| danielp3344 | %data maryland | 18:23 |
| Brainstorm | danielp3344: In Maryland, US, there are 149 cases, 1 deaths (0.7% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 01:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 18:23 |
| s8ori | %data washington | 18:24 |
| Brainstorm | s8ori: In Washington, US, there are 1524 cases, 83 deaths (5.4% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 01:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 18:24 |
| s8ori | %data texas | 18:24 |
| Brainstorm | s8ori: In Texas, US, there are 394 cases, 5 deaths (1.3% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 01:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 18:24 |
| Arsanerit | tinwhiskers: For reported cases, or more a model of true cases? Reported cases are such a small fraction of true cases that it's hard to draw conclusions from reported cases. | 18:24 |
| LjL | Question: about being drastic in making the measures respected, obviously there have been breaches, but many people just leave home because they go to work; in the provinces of Bergamo and Brescia most factories are still open. So are you requesting that the government review the provision of essential systems? Or maybe implementing delivery of food at home, instead of having people go to the supermarket? Limiting the movement of people who are going to | 18:24 |
| LjL | work? | 18:24 |
| Arsanerit | Most countries desperately need vastly more testing, but a statistical side-effect of more testing will be more cases. | 18:24 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: oh, for Italy, the doubling time is increasing, so there the rate is decreasing (yay). | 18:24 |
| tomeaton17 | %data manchester | 18:24 |
| bn_mobile | sigh... wish there was a self-congratulatory filter during these status update press conferences | 18:24 |
| Brainstorm | tomeaton17: Sorry, manchester not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 18:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:19 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Coronavirus: fireworks in Wuhan as checkpoints are taken down, other cities in China ease controls | South China Morning Post β from WHO at 17:19: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/53KbDR | 18:24 |
| Arsanerit | tinwhiskers: How long since they've been in lockdown? 10 days? | 18:25 |
| LjL | Answer: (Borrelli) I believe we must limit, as we said, movement to the maximum possible; there are needs that must be provided for. We certainly cannot provide food delivery for everyone, so some limitations have been envisioned for non-essential work activities, but there is a whole lot of supply chains, like food and public services, that must be guaranteed. | 18:25 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: ^ | 18:25 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh. Never mind | 18:25 |
| LjL | So I think we have adopted the best measures we could adopt, beyond which the whole country would be shut down, but then I'd wonder how we possibly could survive if we can't even get food or anything. | 18:25 |
| Timvde | Arsanerit: more _confirmed_ cases | 18:25 |
| Timvde | Not more cases | 18:25 |
| tinwhiskers | Didn't notice you were translating | 18:25 |
| LjL | Maybe you want to add something...? | 18:25 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: Can we provide food delivery for everyone who is a risk group? | 18:25 |
| Timvde | Probably fewer cases in the long run | 18:25 |
| LjL | (Prof.) From the scientific point of view, distancing is the key. | 18:26 |
| LjL | This is a problem in the workplace too, and it's the most important element. | 18:26 |
| LjL | Social distancing is the key element. | 18:26 |
| LjL | We can reason on other things, but I definitely feel like reiterating this. | 18:26 |
| LjL | The other thing we can add is that we're in a phrase where the curve is growing, we must see about the March 11 measures, which extended the lockdown to the whole country, we'll see during the next days the impact of that. | 18:26 |
| LjL | But I say again, the impact will be lowered if behaviors that aren't sufficiently appropriate, or "tricks" to bypass restrictions, well those are not the solution, they are not clever! They are a problem for everyone, especially the most vulnerable. | 18:27 |
| Arsanerit | I only joined here 6 minutes ago so I strongly suspect this has been linked, but I found this a good read: https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56 (from March 19, followup to a widely read article by the same author and platform from March 10) | 18:27 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: you can draw some conclusions from tested cases within a country but less so between countries. If the testing capability gets maxed out it becomes useless but it's usually fairly obvious if that happens | 18:27 |
| LjL | Question: Can we go back to the issue of deaths? You always told us they are people who are elderly and with comorbidites... but how do these people die? 546 victims in ONE DAY in Lombardy, with [missed] in ICU... how do these people die? are there no ICU beds? | 18:28 |
| LjL | Answer: We are analyzing... as a general consideration, I'll speak through the data: you saw yesterday's bulletin, which was made based on a detailed analysis of these people's files. | 18:28 |
| Arsanerit | There are also non-Covid-19 patients who die because all the ICU beds are taken. | 18:28 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: Are you live translating an Italian press conference? | 18:28 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: yes | 18:29 |
| Arsanerit | Thanks. | 18:29 |
| LjL | When these people are elderly and have diseases, an infection like pneumonia (which is the most salient clinical manifestation of this virus) reaches a threshold of insufficiency, which adds to other things that may have been kept under control until then, but now it gets no longer under control. | 18:29 |
| LjL | What we have evidence for from the clinical file is, indeed, linked to pneumonia making a situation untenable; or, respiratory insufficiency that adds on to patients with cancer, terminal cancer, or very serious prognoses, where this additional element is the spark that destroys equilibrium. | 18:30 |
| LjL | The number is... big... but the numbers are very concentrated in some age groups, which of course doesn't mean those lives aren't precious as all others; but it does give us this virus's "target", which is why we keep repeating: stay home! for elderly especially, stay home. | 18:30 |
| Streaker | why does this virus hit the elderly? how are they physiologically different than children? | 18:31 |
| LjL | We have locked down nursing home, disallowed visits, these are serious measures that create big issues, but we are doing it based on the assumption that these people are really vulnerable, and we must reduce the risk of an infection getting into these structures, as it would spread very quickly. | 18:31 |
| LjL | I say this both as a scientist and as a person who's the son of elderly parents: stay hom. | 18:31 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: btw, when I switched the doubling time calculation over to deaths instead of confirmed cases it made about no difference. Deaths works out as a good fit as a function of tested cases. | 18:31 |
| bn_mobile | ugh, could barely hear Dr. F | 18:32 |
| LjL | Question: about the center-south of Italy... you mentioned it, we calculated there are 72 victims today in the center-south, about 1/10th of the total. How do you evaluate the trend? You often said it's difficult to reason on "peaks" in time, but to try to understand the trends in the southern areas that have not been hit too hard so far, and to know whether there is adequate healthcare potential if those places had a spike. | 18:32 |
| X-Scale | How many days do you predict until the global worldwide numbers reach 1 million cases ? | 18:33 |
| rundmc | Are they saying that there are not enough beds and that they are triage? | 18:33 |
| LjL | Answer: (Prof.) The first question... it tells us of an Italy where all regions HAVE community circulation. Of different origins, but all regions are facing it: it's not do we have it, do we not, it is, what is the curve? | 18:33 |
| LjL | In the majority of regions now, the curve is sustainable and manageable by the healthcare service. | 18:33 |
| tinwhiskers | Streaker: it's been suggested this is due to antibody dependant enhancement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement | 18:33 |
| rundmc | is what i read between lines... | 18:33 |
| sneep | https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/03/21/commentary/japan-commentary/japan-still-coronavirus-outlier/ | 18:34 |
| LjL | But this curve is what we see today, and we mentioned the number of cases is important: it takes about 4-7 days for symptoms, and hospitalization can happen later, and death even later. | 18:34 |
| LjL | So I want to point out that the deaths we register today do not result from yesterday, but from several days ago. | 18:34 |
| Arsanerit | tinwhiskers: doubling time, percentage growth, or "R", all amount to the same essentially, but are more useful than total number of cases or deaths. | 18:34 |
| LjL | The bet for the southern regions is that these curves CAN be modified, and the number of cases may be limited to a sustainable amount of the health service. | 18:34 |
| LjL | I'll let Borrelli illustrate the measures. | 18:35 |
| Streaker | tinwhiskers: thank you | 18:35 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) All the regions, based on the Hleath Ministry, started a program of enhancement of treatment structures and making ICU beds from 5000 to about 8000. It's a work being done day by day, now also by Commissioner Arcuri, who is working with us and with the regions to enhance the structures. | 18:35 |
| LjL | Pulmonology and other departments are also being enhanced. We are running against time, and we are working relentlessly. | 18:36 |
| Arsanerit | Is anyone in this channel a virologist, epidemiologist, or otherwise having any non-lay expertise? | 18:36 |
| LjL | At the moment, the numbers we register in the south are numbers that we can face with the resources we put in place. | 18:36 |
| Arsanerit | (I expect that if they are, they have better things to do than being on IRC.) | 18:36 |
| LjL | Question: the Bergamo/Lombardy situation is being talked about a lot, about the hypothesis of a "moment zero", during a particular football match. Are you studying this hypothesis, to explain why there is such a huge cluster there? | 18:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: i didn't say they were. I was just pointing out that the concern about confirmed cases being flawed compared to deaths doesn't really hold true in terms of doubling time, suggesting that confirmed cases, despite the testing bias is a good proxy for disease increase | 18:37 |
| LjL | Answer: it is one of the hypotheses, but at this time it is fairly difficult to analyze. It is only one of the hypotheses, partly because the healthcare load in those places make it so that the uttermost priority is just treating people. | 18:37 |
| LjL | I believe it's very important, in any case, especially in those areas, to keep VERY rigorous behaviors as recommended. | 18:37 |
| LjL | Certainly, what we see today is behaviors from a week ago about the new cases, and probably from 8-10-15 days ago with the deaths. | 18:38 |
| Arsanerit | tinwhiskers: I suppose that as long as the testing methodology stays the same the relative increase of confirmed cases may still be a good proxy of the relative increase of true cases, until the latter becomes bounded by population size. | 18:38 |
| LjL | This is a wave we are getting from previous infections. | 18:38 |
| LjL | The bet is in today's behaviors. | 18:38 |
| euod[m] | the implication of course being: there's lots of people already dead who haven't made it into the statistics. | 18:38 |
| LjL | The other extremely important thing, everywhere in the country, is that people who have been close contacts, or who are quarantined at home, they MUST stay at home, they must respect the quarantine. | 18:38 |
| Arsanerit | X-Scale: I wonder if UK betting offices allow betting on that question yet, but I think it's too distasteful a bet even for their standards. | 18:38 |
| LjL | This is very important because it's true in the country where many activities are suspended, and this choice is sustainable at the moment. | 18:39 |
| LjL | We understand it's difficult to be stuck in your apartment or home, but it's a sacrifice that is important for us and for the country. | 18:39 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: yes, that's why it's only really good within a country and only if testing capability doesn't max out | 18:39 |
| LjL | Question: aside from face masks, there is another thing that's creating controversy: limiting the opening hours of supermarkets. Some people think this can create bigger crowds, and higher risk of infection. What is your view? In particular, are you considering a single directive from the central government? | 18:40 |
| LjL | Answer: (Borrelli) I believe we must avoid crowds, avoid gatherings, so my personal idea is that if the opening hours are longer, we reduce the concentration and the queues and annoyance for the population. | 18:40 |
| LjL | We do need to have uniformity of behavior across the country: everyone must know there are opening hours to go shopping, and whether they be longer or shorter, they should be uniform. | 18:40 |
| Arsanerit | I'm a bit worried about the BBC News reporting phrasing like "The patients who died in England were aged between 41 and 94 years old and all had underlying health conditions.", does stressing that they all had underlying health conditions lead to some healthy people being less likely to respect the rules? | 18:41 |
| LjL | (Prof.) We said, social distancing is the thing. As an "adopted" Roman now, i appreciate the fact that when I go to the Institute in the morning, i see queues that are very long in front of supermarkets, but people do keep their distance. | 18:41 |
| Arsanerit | Germany extended the opening hour laws for supermarkets, but supermarkets aren't open longer because they don't want to put more stress on supermarket staf. | 18:41 |
| LjL | I can see it's not easy for people to wait there standing, although the climate is helping, but I do appreciate the fact i see people keeping their distances. | 18:41 |
| LjL | It is the best example and it is what we must do. | 18:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:39 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus, la destra: "Misure eccezionali in Lombardia". Salvini si appella a Mattarella. M5S: "SΓ¬ a interventi drastici" - la Repubblica β from WHO at 17:39: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/iSfSGN | 18:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: I'll add an option in to calculate doubling time based on deaths instead of confirmed cases | 18:42 |
| LjL | That said, we must discuss various measures, but the key point is, when we see crowds in tobacconists, or in parks with excuses, or when we go walking in groups, that is NOT the correct behavior. | 18:42 |
| Arsanerit | tinwhiskers: are you maintaining the bot? | 18:42 |
| danielp3344 | LjL: I haven't left my house for over a week now :P | 18:42 |
| danielp3344 | but it's pretty boring here | 18:42 |
| LjL | Question: When you answered my colleague you said that football match may have been a cause of the cluster in Lombardy. What are other hypotheses? If we look at the data, Lombardy has a very high mortality, with +527 deaths today. Is it just that the restrictive measures came late? | 18:43 |
| Arsanerit | I've lockdown-ed myself since last Monday, leaving home only for essentials. | 18:43 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: oh, maybe I confused you with someone else. I'm just doing the graphs on offloop.net | 18:43 |
| LjL | Answer: no, no, I believe the restrictive measures were enacted soon in Lombardy: see Codogno and its area, when they were quarantined, and doing that reduced new cases and reduced the virus's circulating. | 18:43 |
| LjL | I cannot express hypotheses now, because when we define hypotheses scientifically, we build them and then we check them against the numbers we have. | 18:44 |
| Arsanerit | tinwhiskers: maybe, I asked for an option for % increase (or doubling time) for when Brainstorm reports figures | 18:44 |
| LjL | At this time, the priority, in that context, is supporting the healthcare assistance, and reducing circulation. Analyses come later in our priorities. | 18:44 |
| LjL | I must say it's very important to adopt these measures, especially in Lombardy, which started from a situation where initial circulation was significant, and the original "red zones", where we were very quick to lock down, but still at that time, some positive people had already left or already had contacts, and so there was circulation in the surrounding zones, and the virus propagated, in the direction of Bergamo, Brescia, and the northern part of Emilia. | 18:45 |
| LjL | This tells us how the virus moves around mainly by contiguous areas. | 18:45 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: well the bot gives the link to the graphs, one of which is doubling time, fwiw | 18:45 |
| X-Scale | Italians will never learn anything meaningful from their human tragedies -> https://www.newindianexpress.com/sport/football/2020/mar/21/despite-coronavirus-outbreak-napoli-to-resume-training-from-march-25-2119751.html | 18:45 |
| bn_mobile | man, we're going to have a shit-ton of masks once this all blows over | 18:45 |
| LjL | Question: We said that even younger people sometimes end up in ICU. Do we have data on that, and most importantly, do we know if those people had comorbidities? | 18:46 |
| LjL | Answer: Sorry, at the moment we do not have specific and solid data on ICUs, especially clinically; we do have data on deaths, where people below 50 or 40 years of age, while some died, they were all characterized by the presence of serious comorbidities. | 18:46 |
| LjL | That is, they had all of the risk factors, except age. | 18:46 |
| LjL | Hence the recommendation, sure, elderly must stay home, but also other people, especially the immunodepressed, must stay protected. | 18:47 |
| bn_mobile | you're going to get masks in your McD happy meal, lol | 18:47 |
| LjL | Question: we read from many sources that the numbers are probably not making sense anymore, because each region is reacting on its own, and what can be predicted from these figures gets proven wrong each day. How do you see that? Is it just the fault of citizens not obeying the rules, or is there something in the "Italy model" that is not working? Also referencing the mask controversy: if we let people go shopping without masks, as they are not available, | 18:48 |
| LjL | then maybe the lockdown just doesn't work, and the situation is out of control. Is this plausible? | 18:48 |
| LjL | Answer: (Borrelli) I'll let the professor speak about epidemiology. | 18:48 |
| LjL | (Prof.) Many times we saw on the press that even people who are very intelligent but maybe not experts in this particular discipline, they made models, predicting peaks and so on. | 18:49 |
| LjL | But you have never, never heard me doing these forecasts, which suffer from some assumption, and in a phase of growth, they risk being misleading. | 18:49 |
| LjL | So yes, I get and share what you're saying, and we must simulate, calculate, which is scientifically important, but we must also know that any prediction suffers from its assumptions, which must come true if the prediction should come true as modeled. | 18:49 |
| LjL | This is why I've never said things like "we're nearing the peak", "there's been a decrease today". | 18:50 |
| LjL | We must work with solid data, having a horizon and expectations. | 18:50 |
| LjL | We expect, right now, with the restrictions that are adopted, to see something next week. | 18:50 |
| LjL | Frankly, what you say... "we model predictions, and then if they don't work, we change them?" | 18:50 |
| LjL | But also, some measures like in the red zones did objectively bring about a significant reduction of the R0. | 18:51 |
| LjL | That doesn't mean there aren't new cases, there are new cases even in China, but the number is reduced. | 18:51 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +237 cases (now 298609), +3 deaths (now 12788), +42 recoveries (now 95068) πΉ Bahrain: +5 cases (now 310) πΉ Canada: +50 cases (now 1137) πΉ British Columbia, Canada: +1 deaths (now 9) πΉ Manitoba, Canada: +1 cases (now 18) πΉ Ontario, Canada: +51 cases (now 369), +1 recoveries (now 6) πΉ Ecuador: +80 cases (now 506) [... want %more?] | 18:51 |
| LjL | Maybe our measures through the whole country, which may be less draconian than the restrictions in the red areas, but maybe they can bring about a reduction of the R0 below 1. | 18:51 |
| LjL | We try to analyze that day by day, but I have to say that today's deaths, while dramatic for the whole country, are brought about from an earlier period. | 18:51 |
| LjL | I believe that even in this press conference we did remark several times some behaviors that happened some time ago that created issues. | 18:52 |
| LjL | You can also see it elsewhere in Europe: events that shouldn't have occurred, that created new cases later. | 18:52 |
| X-Scale | LjL: are you from Italy ? | 18:52 |
| LjL | Whenever we get "signs", we will be fast and transparent in sharing them. | 18:52 |
| LjL | But even if we see those "signs", even though we wish not to see them, it will not mean we must give up. | 18:52 |
| python476 | half forest nearby is now closed | 18:53 |
| mefistofeles | X-Scale: yes, he is | 18:53 |
| python476 | they kept small doors open but now its chained | 18:53 |
| [itchyjunk] | Assuming CoV-2 becomes endemic, it's most likely that strains will vary in their S proteins. | 18:54 |
| [itchyjunk] | Depending on how fast, it might mean yearly vaccine. | 18:54 |
| Albright | %title https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/03/21/commentary/japan-commentary/japan-still-coronavirus-outlier/#.XnZH06FRUlQ | 18:55 |
| Brainstorm | Albright: From www.japantimes.co.jp: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier? | The Japan Times | 18:55 |
| [itchyjunk] | Which isn't fun. | 18:55 |
| LjL | Question: Without getting into the merit of constitutionality of limitations, complete limitations, to people's freedoms... in taking such draconian measures, aside from the specific duration which is sometimes peculiar (like the latest 4-day restriction)... did the government take the consequences into account, while respecting the pain and the deaths, did they consider that assuming such draconian measures on more than 60 million citizens... were the | 18:55 |
| LjL | intangible consequences considered? Stress, panic, psychological breakdowns within families... It's obvious that these measures were taken because a bunch of true imbeciles did not respect the initial measures. Okay. But was the reaction not taking up measures that are excessive? You must have heard that domestic violence reports have gone down 50%, and that's likely NOT because male partners have become nicer. I think one of the component members of the | 18:55 |
| LjL | scientific committee said he was in favor of "shutting down" the whole of Lombardy, but not the whole country. | 18:55 |
| python476 | us passed germany | 18:55 |
| LjL | Answer: you are certainly bringing up a very real and current problem, the psychological equilibrium in relationships, and I'd add another critical element: that of disabled people, which used to find assistance during their daily activities at specialized centers, and they cannot get it now, and are completely a burden on their familiies. | 18:56 |
| AimHere | US might pass Spain in the next few hours | 18:56 |
| mefistofeles | yes, probably | 18:56 |
| LjL | I must admit that minister Speranza is starting activities for this, and we also had a meeting with the President of the Union of Psychologists, and we are designing methods to [missing] | 18:56 |
| LjL | But I also want to see the half-full part of the glass: this is a chance to get people back together, friends, relatives, among generations, too. | 18:57 |
| tinwhiskers | US is the best. We've done a great job of overtaking the other countries. Really great. We have a really great team. | 18:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | Domestic violence went down? | 18:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | Citation? | 18:57 |
| LjL | I like to underline that the behaviors of the younger people, and of "baby boomers", my generation, are behaviors that at this time are and must be caring for our parents. | 18:57 |
| LjL | We must guarantee they get groceries, medicines. | 18:57 |
| Arsanerit | I read that domestic violence went up (source: taz) | 18:58 |
| LjL | This doesn't mean that the whole of society doesn't have to work together to create a solidarity network for support, which can help, when we tell elderly people "stay at home", to enable them to make this actually possible. | 18:58 |
| python476 | us mass shootings will go down thats for sure | 18:58 |
| LjL | I do believe further initiatives will be adopted, and the whole of the government is focused on this. | 18:58 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://time.com/5803887/coronavirus-domestic-violence-victims/ | 18:59 |
| mefistofeles | python476: actually, gun sells spiked up | 18:59 |
| LjL | Question: in your opinion, also when we continue monitoring this virus, has there been a mutation at this point? And a vaccine, a potential vaccine among the candidates, do they have some chance to solve this huge problem in the short term? | 18:59 |
| [itchyjunk] | python476, school shootings? | 18:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 17:55 UTC: Coronavirus: One in five Americans ordered to stay at home: A number of US states have ordered shutdowns in an effort to combat the spread of coronavirus. β from WHO at 17:55: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/M2Lcja | 18:59 |
| python476 | [itchyjunk]: yeah | 18:59 |
| LjL | Answer: that's something we all wonder about, and from the virology data we have no evidence that the virus has mutated. But this is today. We said this is a new epidemic, which we are learning about, and which works differently, is a function of the kind of population it impacts... | 18:59 |
| [itchyjunk] | βMy husband wonβt let me leave the house,β a victim of domestic violence, tells a representative for the National Domestic Violence Hotline over the phone. βHeβs had flu-like symptoms and blames keeping me here on not wanting to infect others or bringing something like COVID-19 home. But I feel like itβs just an attempt to isolate me.β | 18:59 |
| LjL | So the answer to the first question is, no, not today, neither here nor in other Euroepan countries. | 19:00 |
| mefistofeles | wtf? THe virus mutates everytime, this is somewhat misleading | 19:00 |
| mefistofeles | doesn't mean that the virus is behaving differently, though | 19:00 |
| LjL | About the vaccine, I believe it is one of the goals today that the best players in the field have. | 19:00 |
| LjL | There are various products already in animal testing, at an advanced stage... but we must understand what advcaned means: if you ask me will we have it in one month? My answer is not. But in a year? Maybe. | 19:00 |
| [itchyjunk] | Yearly vaccine means it will be an expensive enterprise. | 19:00 |
| mefistofeles | so UK left NHS workers without food xD | 19:01 |
| LjL | Having a vaccine must mean it has been tested, but also been produced in millions of doses. | 19:01 |
| LjL | I think some groups are asking for authorization to begin testing phases, so we aren't seeing results yet. | 19:01 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Thanks and good evening. | 19:01 |
| LjL | --- end | 19:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | There isn't really good vaccines in the sense that it would be a once use thing being developed. | 19:01 |
| LjL | X-Scale, yes | 19:01 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: Thank you for your translation. | 19:01 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: that was a long one | 19:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | Out of food? | 19:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | Why is UK's health worker out of food? | 19:01 |
| LjL | X-Scale, i don't think it's particularly fair to single out Italians as "not learning", given there is a very slow and drowsy response from most countries. | 19:02 |
| mefistofeles | [itchyjunk]: because they are working while others are stocking and emptying the markets | 19:02 |
| [itchyjunk] | Ah | 19:02 |
| bn_mobile | wow, Dr. F is tiny! | 19:02 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, yes, i was live translating this, i do it every day, although i always forget to do it at 18:00 when it begins so i miss parts | 19:02 |
| synx508 | UK supermarkets have set up special times when only key workers are allowed in, some are doing NHS only hours too | 19:02 |
| LjL | as usual the missed parts are the grim ones, the rising numbers | 19:02 |
| bn_mobile | how tall is he? | 19:02 |
| Arsanerit | mefistofeles: sometimes informing the general public about science necessitates oversimplifications | 19:02 |
| mefistofeles | Arsanerit: true | 19:02 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, i do wish everyone in risk groups could be provided with food delivery. i am disappointed Borrelli said this cannot be done for everyone. I think supermarkets and other food providers should be encoouraged, financially too, to make a huge effort to deliver to just about everyone. | 19:03 |
| Arsanerit | perhaps they can temporarily recruit some people who are out of work due to the tourim shutdown | 19:03 |
| python476 | F Fauci ? | 19:03 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, long, but as typical, not too dense with content | 19:03 |
| Arsanerit | I was in Lombardia last October | 19:04 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, there is some content, but really most of it is on repeat | 19:04 |
| bn_mobile | python476: yes | 19:04 |
| LjL | i will translate the part i missed in a few minutes | 19:04 |
| [itchyjunk] | No one is releasing data about logistic. | 19:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | Centralized distribution might not be the worst thing since it's pretty much cerfew anyways. | 19:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | China already had those type of cetralized "apps" though. | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +667 cases (now 299276), +5 deaths (now 12793) πΈ US: +606 cases (now 22738), +6 deaths (now 288), +24 recoveries (now 171) πΉ Bahrain: +5 cases (now 310) πΉ Canada: +50 cases (now 1137) πΉ British Columbia, Canada: +1 deaths (now 9) πΉ Manitoba, Canada: +1 cases (now 18) πΉ Ontario, Canada: +51 cases (now 369), +1 recoveries (now 6) [... want %more?] | 19:06 |
| bn_mobile | hmm, I have a feeling T is going to win the next election | 19:06 |
| [itchyjunk] | Privacy eroding to the core. | 19:06 |
| mefistofeles | UK ICUs already not coping with demand | 19:06 |
| tinwhiskers | bn_mobile: due to the great job he's doing? | 19:06 |
| LjL | [itchyjunk], Lombardy has also been "experimenting" with using cell tower data to see whether people are going further away than ~300m from their homes | 19:07 |
| [itchyjunk] | I take it that UK has dumped their heard immunity plan? | 19:07 |
| LjL | although i don't think they are using it to give fines or anything | 19:07 |
| LjL | just statistics (for now) | 19:07 |
| LjL | they found that 40% of the people monitored did go further away, iirc. | 19:07 |
| tinwhiskers | Cool/scary | 19:07 |
| bn_mobile | tinwhiskers: no comment, but last I heard he had a 56% approval rating, usually after natural disasters (I think this would somewhat qualify as one), polls show more favorable approval ratings of politicians | 19:08 |
| kinroy | [itchyjunk]: we still have it in place in teh netherlands | 19:08 |
| kinroy | the | 19:08 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i think the question about constitutionality was silly, but, even though at this time nobody cares, you know... all of this is quite obviously unconstitutional | 19:08 |
| LjL | i mean, you don't know our constitution, but it's easy to presume that | 19:08 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah | 19:08 |
| LjL | really the constitution has been (hopefully temporarily) been thrown out of a window | 19:08 |
| tinwhiskers | Not something they will be in a rush to give up | 19:08 |
| LjL | i know | 19:09 |
| LjL | but for now... look at the data | 19:09 |
| LjL | we must change the data | 19:09 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah. That sucks | 19:09 |
| [itchyjunk] | kinroy, have what in clace? | 19:09 |
| oriba | LjL: "we must change the data" no problem, use your preferred editor and change it :P | 19:10 |
| python476 | us spread rate chart https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5e75696507adf00006dbc1c9/960x0.jpg?fit=scale | 19:10 |
| bn_mobile | kinroy: so they're telling everyone to "just go out"? | 19:10 |
| python476 | I hope trump chokes on his burger watching this | 19:10 |
| LjL | oriba, ha ha | 19:11 |
| kinroy | bn_mobile: | 19:12 |
| kinroy | https://twitter.com/FeministCtulhu/status/1241330216515051523 yes stay 1.5 m away from each other and evreything will be allright | 19:12 |
| tinwhiskers | Works for China | 19:12 |
| tinwhiskers | jk | 19:12 |
| bn_mobile | kinroy: that doesn't help with inducing "herd immunity" | 19:13 |
| kinroy | All shops are still open adn today was a nice sunny day so a lot off ppl just went out shopping | 19:13 |
| kinroy | bn_mobile: our minister president told us the economy will be hit too hard when we do a complete lockdown. | 19:14 |
| kinroy | And basicly the only 2 political parties wanting a complete lockdown are nazi parties | 19:14 |
| python476 | kinroy: stay away, clean everything and wear a plastic piece over your head | 19:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus* at 18:08 UTC: Coronavirus: Are you interested in talking about the economic impact of the ongoing Coronavirus pandemic? Check out /r/CoronavirusRecession and share the latest economic news or your own experiences. β from WHO at 18:08: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/zMvyH8 | 19:16 |
| darsie | How long is the flat curve? 1 year? 10 years? | 19:16 |
| oriba | I think people don't know how much 1.5 metres is in reality. It's alot more than normal. I thought about tinkering a disk with a diameter that keeps 1.5 meters from the surface of the body.... I could not get into the supermarket with it I think... because it's 1.5 meters on each side plus the radius of the body. | 19:16 |
| kinroy | python476: yes I am staying home with my partner. | 19:17 |
| bn_mobile | python476: welcome to virology, that's what happens when you have idiotic states like NY that delayed sensible precautions | 19:17 |
| bin_bash | poll: is having 18 rolls of tp "hoarding"? | 19:18 |
| oriba | The right tool for keeping the distance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_ball | 19:18 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: not really. The problem arises if you bought them all at once or progressively over time | 19:18 |
| python476 | bn_mobile: i stopped criticizing | 19:19 |
| bin_bash | idk how it is there, but in the US you buy packs of 30 rolls usuall | 19:19 |
| synx508 | there are 18 rolls in the packs we have been buying ever since switching to online shopping years ago. | 19:19 |
| python476 | (except trump :) | 19:19 |
| bn_mobile | darsie: look at China's graph, it's already happened, 0 new cases for last 3 days in Wuhan + Hubei | 19:19 |
| tinwhiskers | But considering 12 packs are not uncommon, then 18 is hardly hoarding | 19:19 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: yeah, exactly | 19:19 |
| python476 | oriba: makes me thinking | 19:19 |
| python476 | I want to make a hand gel police | 19:20 |
| python476 | whenever you see someone in the street, shoot him with alcohol solution | 19:20 |
| bin_bash | the reason i asked is there was an article about this woman whose kids had thrown 18 rolls into the tub and people wereshaming her for hoarding | 19:20 |
| bin_bash | and i'm thinking... if that's hoarding dont come to my house and see my 30 pack lol | 19:20 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: agreed | 19:20 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +1871 cases (now 301147), +167 deaths (now 12960) πΈ France: +1847 cases (now 14459), +112 deaths (now 562) πΉ Bahrain: +5 cases (now 310) πΉ Canada: +50 cases (now 1137) πΉ British Columbia, Canada: +1 deaths (now 9) πΉ Manitoba, Canada: +1 cases (now 18) πΉ Ontario, Canada: +51 cases (now 369), +1 recoveries (now 6) πΉ Czechia: +70 cases (now 995) [... want %more?] | 19:21 |
| kinroy | Is orange man that bad? (not following us pol right now) | 19:24 |
| python476 | orange man leverages any event to cause more issues everywhere | 19:24 |
| oriba | python476: an alternative to the water ball is this here, at least for women with some nostalgic mood, but 1.5 m would mean to enhance the construction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoop_skirt | 19:24 |
| kinroy | Sad I hope he will not have 4 more years. | 19:25 |
| kinroy | Can he stop the elections? | 19:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | Congress can change the date. | 19:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | Lets not get into annals of politics here. | 19:26 |
| python476 | heh | 19:27 |
| python476 | bringin back 18th century fashion | 19:27 |
| fructose | Assholes of politics, you mean? | 19:27 |
| [itchyjunk] | records of politics that might set up precedence. | 19:27 |
| Painter | Is Trump threatening to stop election because of COVID-19? | 19:29 |
| bin_bash | https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/11181462/mum-buy-18-loo-roll-kids-bath-hysterics-stockpile-coronavirus/ | 19:29 |
| LjL | Full transcription/translation of today's rather grim press conference by the Italian Civil Protection: https://dpaste.org/yg07 | 19:30 |
| python476 | thx | 19:31 |
| LjL | %cases italy | 19:31 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Italy, there are 53578 cases, 4825 deaths (9.0% of cases), 6072 recoveries as of March 21, 17:43Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 19:31 |
| LjL | %cases Lombardia | 19:32 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Lombardia, Italy, there are 25515 cases, 3095 deaths (12.1% of cases), 5050 recoveries as of March 21, 16:00Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardia for time series data. | 19:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:29 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New Jersey shuts down nonessential businesses, Italy deaths soar β from WHO at 18:29: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/7xQZ3J | 19:33 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +1275 cases (now 302422), +7 deaths (now 12967) πΈ United Kingdom: +873 cases (now 5018) πΈ Germany: +230 cases (now 22084), +6 deaths (now 83) πΉ Bahrain: +5 cases (now 310) πΉ Canada: +58 cases (now 1145) πΉ British Columbia, Canada: +1 deaths (now 9) πΉ Manitoba, Canada: +1 cases (now 18) [... want %more?] | 19:36 |
| JoeLlama | okay LjL I think you were right | 19:38 |
| Brainstorm | JoeLlama: At 2020-03-21 17:19:59 UTC, LjL told you: please have a look at the resources page in the channel topic, and you will there is an article by John Hopkins introducing their map, as well as the (long) link to the map itself. the only advantage that https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html has is that it's shorter than the arcgis url, and that it contains buttons to other John Hopkins page. the rather big drawback is that it makes t | 19:38 |
| JoeLlama | moo | 19:38 |
| JoeLlama | heh oh! okay that too :) :) | 19:39 |
| fructose | https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-many-americans-are-sick-lost-february/608521/ | 19:39 |
| JoeLlama | yes yes I looked it up you were right LjL :P | 19:39 |
| JoeLlama | sheesh (: | 19:39 |
| JoeLlama | some people!! | 19:39 |
| fructose | US-centric, but at least other countries can feel less lonely in their governmental incompetence | 19:39 |
| bin_bash | fructose: yup. totally avoidable | 19:39 |
| bin_bash | the internet is inherently US-centric | 19:40 |
| euod[m] | the parts you go to anyway. | 19:41 |
| fructose | bin_bash: No | 19:41 |
| yuriwho | During the US press conference Pence said that in speaking to the ventilator manufacturers they discovered that the ventilators using by anesthesiologists and in outpatient clinics can be re-flashed with firmware/software to enable full ventilator functions for use in ICU's! | 19:42 |
| yuriwho | LjL ^ | 19:42 |
| yuriwho | same will be true across europe | 19:42 |
| bin_bash | no, i mean the entire internet is inherently us-centric because it's an american invention, so we've proliferated the majority of it. hence why so many people complain about global websites being us-centric | 19:43 |
| LjL | yuriwho, O.o | 19:43 |
| LjL | Spec, β also | 19:43 |
| euod[m] | <bin_bash "no, i mean the entire internet i"> nonsense. you're just seeing your part of it because you're american. | 19:44 |
| LjL | yuriwho, and if this is true, they're "discovering" it now? what the hell? | 19:44 |
| Spec | yuriwho: hahaha | 19:44 |
| bin_bash | euod[m]: it's something people complain about all over the place | 19:44 |
| yuriwho | I guess the manufacturer sold cheaper versions with less features disabled by software | 19:44 |
| Spec | ^ | 19:44 |
| Spec | common practice in america | 19:44 |
| LjL | yes, what the hell | 19:44 |
| euod[m] | <LjL "yuriwho, and if this is true, th"> this is pretty common in all industries. you produce one product, and then limit in software it to be whatever SKU you want it to be. that way you only have to stock a single actual widget. | 19:44 |
| Spec | how else do you maximize profits when providing healthcare? | 19:45 |
| LjL | okay | 19:45 |
| Spec | hmm? | 19:45 |
| Spec | got a better idea there, buddy? | 19:45 |
| LjL | and the companies communicate this fact NOW? | 19:45 |
| LjL | instead of like, when all the dead people here were dying? | 19:45 |
| yuriwho | but that means lots more ventilators very soon | 19:45 |
| Spec | LjL: but mah profits | 19:45 |
| LjL | Spec, you call them profit, i call that crimes against humanities | 19:45 |
| euod[m] | <LjL "instead of like, when all the de"> that part is being a fucking dick. | 19:45 |
| Spec | LjL: weird how similar those things are | 19:45 |
| LjL | people here sometimes tell me i need a break because i get too mad | 19:46 |
| yuriwho | Pence said they will be announcing details on monday | 19:46 |
| LjL | but i feel more like i am way NOT MAD ENOUGH | 19:46 |
| euod[m] | <LjL "Spec, you call them profit, i ca"> people making medical devices are pretty fucking stupid. there's modern hospital gear with WAVELAN GOLD wifi cards in them, which are over a decade old and remotely exploitable. | 19:46 |
| Spec | LjL: maybe the world will embrace healthcare as a requirement for civilized societies to exist in the modern globalized world? | 19:46 |
| bin_bash | maybe they weren't asking the right questions LjL | 19:46 |
| Spec | i suspect if government researched and had produced medical equipment to their specifications, this sort of thing wouldn't happen | 19:47 |
| Spec | even if private enterprise implemented those designs | 19:47 |
| Spec | open source medical equipment sounds like doing the entier world a favor tbh | 19:47 |
| euod[m] | <LjL "but i feel more like i am way NO"> like I'm not joking, you can break into those things with free tools and any laptop. I saw them attached to infusion pumps when I was in hospital. | 19:47 |
| yuriwho | I can explain the medical device stuff...... you have to run clinical trials on a final version of the software to get it approved for sale. Change the software and you need to do it all over again | 19:48 |
| [itchyjunk] | Government is good at funding initial research. | 19:48 |
| mefistofeles | yuriwho: source of the ventilators firmware? please | 19:48 |
| [itchyjunk] | Most of the "list mile" research comes from private industries. | 19:48 |
| yuriwho | Pence in the briefing that just finished | 19:48 |
| euod[m] | <yuriwho "I can explain the medical device"> why do infusion pumps have fucking 802.11b wifi cards in them to begin with? rip the fucking things out. | 19:48 |
| yuriwho | see above | 19:48 |
| fructose | bin_bash: The Internet is an international invention. It's not inherently US-cetric. Early work was done in the US, but Tim Berners-Lee is English, as just one example. | 19:48 |
| yuriwho | clinical trials are expensive | 19:48 |
| Spec | euod[m]: tbf, we're still using insecure analog freqs for paging doctors/nurses so :shrug: | 19:49 |
| euod[m] | removing an optional wifi card isn't modifying the software. | 19:49 |
| Spec | yuriwho: yeah, that's why centralizing the design reduces costs by economies in scale <3 | 19:49 |
| yuriwho | any hardware or software change needs a new clinical trial if it's an invasive medical device | 19:50 |
| euod[m] | <Spec "euod: tbf, we're still using in"> yeah I know. I like reading them with my SDR. they almost never contain anything other than codes though. it's a rule that no patient information is ever transmitted. | 19:50 |
| [itchyjunk] | A government is extremely inefficient in start to finish designs. | 19:50 |
| Spec | euod[m]: yeah. | 19:50 |
| [itchyjunk] | We see this in military, satellite, space techc etc. | 19:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:47 UTC: (news): New York City-area, Philadelphia airports briefly halt air traffic as coronavirus causes staffing issues β from WHO at 18:47: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/FPtj78 | 19:50 |
| yuriwho | afk life | 19:51 |
| bin_bash | fructose: yes, that's true, but the governance of the internet is largely managed by the US, esp ICANN. this isn't an opinion ive invented, it's well-documented and complained about that the internet is "us-centric" and thats just part of one reason why. obviously there are niche corners and of course non-americans made humongous contributions, lets not be silly | 19:51 |
| euod[m] | <[itchyjunk] "We see this in military, satelli"> yes, I've worked on security hardware before. the compliance stuff is an absolute waste of everybodies time and results in less secure hardware, not more. FIPS compliance requires you have 3DES encryption, something that's been known to be broken for over a decade. | 19:51 |
| [itchyjunk] | euod[m], yes. it would be same for medical equipment. | 19:52 |
| [itchyjunk] | It will be expensive and outdated by the time it hits the floor. | 19:52 |
| [itchyjunk] | Consider X-35 as an example. Gov's were heavily involved in design. Costs over a billion a pop. And is close to being outdated as it rolls out. | 19:53 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_X-35 | 19:53 |
| [itchyjunk] | So innovation of medical equipment is best left to the private sectors. | 19:53 |
| euod[m] | <[itchyjunk] "euod, yes. it would be same for "> *some* medical equiptment has the best design and engineering I've ever seen, on the flip side. some of their intrinsically safe designs are absolutely mind blowing in their simplicity. | 19:54 |
| pwr22 | !cases | 19:54 |
| CovBot | In World there have been a total of 302,497 cases as of 2020-03-21 18:45:00 UTC. Of these 194,462 (64.3%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 95,068 (31.4%) have definitely recovered and 12,967 (4.3%) have died. | 19:54 |
| pwr22 | Is that right, 300k worldwide now? | 19:54 |
| kinroy | yes | 19:54 |
| fructose | bin_bash: That's fine to complain about, but completely unrelated to me linking a US-centric article. It's also not the case that such US centrism is "inherent". We can already see that by how many countries manage their national networks. | 19:54 |
| bin_bash | my point is there's no reason to point out that an article is us-centric, why even bother doing that? | 19:55 |
| euod[m] | bin_bash: and more to the point, you're the one making the US centric claim, from the perspective of.. someone who only visits the US parts of the internet. | 19:55 |
| bin_bash | euod[m]: you have no idea what parts of the internet i visit | 19:55 |
| bin_bash | i'm in several non-US communities | 19:55 |
| euod[m] | <bin_bash "euod: you have no idea what part"> of course I do. because you're making the claim that the whole internet is US centric, and it's not. | 19:56 |
| bin_bash | no, youre just making a false assumption lol | 19:56 |
| fructose | bin_bash: I disagree with your point. This is an international channel on an international topic, so I was cautioning that the article itself is US-centric. | 19:56 |
| bin_bash | fructose: but why? | 19:56 |
| [itchyjunk] | What I think might be useful is modular factories. We don't quite have the capability for it but I think Japan has good exampels of it. | 19:56 |
| bin_bash | of course this network is int'l lol | 19:56 |
| euod[m] | modular? | 19:56 |
| bin_bash | but people dont post articles and say "this is euro-centric" | 19:56 |
| [itchyjunk] | As in "can be repurposed to produce variety of goods". | 19:57 |
| bin_bash | because it's unnecessary. people would be able to tell from the context of the articles | 19:57 |
| bin_bash | hyperbole or not | 19:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | As opposed to the mostly "single purpose" factories USA has. | 19:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | For example, in theory, a car assembly plant could make ventilators. | 19:57 |
| euod[m] | [itchyjunk]: most production happens in china, where modular doesn't even begin to describe what's going on. you have a factory, it only produces screws, not just general screws, but a specific size and material. want something else? you go to another factory. | 19:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | This is what Musk was tweeting about. | 19:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | But it's pretty expensive to do so. | 19:58 |
| pwr22 | euod: freenode, this room is bridged | 19:58 |
| [itchyjunk] | euod[m], all mil products are made in USA. | 19:58 |
| euod[m] | yeah, matrix breaks on the auto complete sometimes. | 19:58 |
| [itchyjunk] | There is a strong requirement for this. | 19:58 |
| LjL | what is even going on? | 19:58 |
| LjL | are you arguing over whether it's okay to post US-centric articles? | 19:58 |
| fructose | bin_bash: To provide context upfront, before anyone even bothers to read it. | 19:58 |
| LjL | Yes, it's okay to post them. Yes, it's also okay to point out they are US-centric. No, I don't give a damn which country manages the ICANN or other things. Yes, this channel is definitely international. | 19:59 |
| LjL | hope that solves it | 19:59 |
| bin_bash | lol | 19:59 |
| [itchyjunk] | I don't see anyone from Antarctica in here. | 19:59 |
| [itchyjunk] | So it's not `that` international. | 19:59 |
| Spec | [itchyjunk]: those people are more secure, they wouldn't brag about their isolation | 20:00 |
| bin_bash | antarctica isn't a nation | 20:00 |
| mefistofeles | ... | 20:00 |
| [itchyjunk] | Ah that reminds me, we can actually track change of human activity form space! | 20:00 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://www.space.com/coronavirus-pollution-emissions-drop-china-italy-satellite-views.html | 20:01 |
| [itchyjunk] | Isn't that bat shit crazy? | 20:01 |
| s8ori | https://twitter.com/gelizabeths/status/1241165445836574720 | 20:01 |
| fructose | We don't actually know it came from bat shit | 20:01 |
| Spec | [itchyjunk]: i see what you did there, bat shit crazy | 20:02 |
| Spec | s8ori: oh shit | 20:03 |
| [itchyjunk] | wtf | 20:04 |
| [itchyjunk] | That many tanks? | 20:04 |
| LjL | A pharmacist from around Bergamo (one of the hardest-hit areas in Lombardy) being interviewed on TV said the official number of deaths is "the tip of the iceberg", partly because it doesn't consider secondary deaths: they have people requesting and needing oxygen bottles, but they cannot provide it before 2-3 days, and so people are literally suffucating... | 20:05 |
| [itchyjunk] | Any higher resolution picture available? | 20:05 |
| s8ori | https://twitter.com/patrickbreese/status/1241180026361589760?s=20 | 20:05 |
| s8ori | photobybake | 20:06 |
| s8ori | @Photo_by_Bake | 20:06 |
| s8ori | Β· | 20:06 |
| s8ori | 16h | 20:06 |
| s8ori | Most likely the Armored Brigade that just rotated back to Fort Hood from Korea a few weeks ago. Their equipment would take time to move. Everyone needs to calm down. | 20:06 |
| Spec | yeah, probably just moving equipment like normal | 20:07 |
| python476 | so many cobra effects | 20:07 |
| [itchyjunk] | s8ori, they had that many tanks in korea> | 20:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:01 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Brief ground stops at NYC and Philly airports, Amazon doubles pay β from WHO at 19:01: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/7xQZ3J | 20:07 |
| [itchyjunk] | Wouldn't it be cheaper to leave it there? | 20:08 |
| s8ori | no idea | 20:08 |
| python476 | govt: lockdown to avoid contact, businesses: sell everything for pennies.. everybody comes into one room | 20:08 |
| s8ori | could be something. could be nothing. who knows? | 20:08 |
| s8ori | impressive nonetheless | 20:08 |
| s8ori | hehehe | 20:08 |
| kinroy | I like trains | 20:09 |
| python476 | so, Campbell thinks 50% of the world is gonna get covid | 20:17 |
| [itchyjunk] | the soup company? | 20:18 |
| python476 | the Dr John | 20:18 |
| python476 | 2% fatality rate of 50% of humanity is 77Million | 20:19 |
| [itchyjunk] | Hm, can't figure out who he actually is weven with googling. | 20:19 |
| fructose | I'd expect a higher fatality rate without stronger interventions | 20:19 |
| [itchyjunk] | Ah, youtuber. | 20:19 |
| python476 | [itchyjunk]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2FkuQZTYO4 | 20:19 |
| python476 | yeah, well dr providing tl;dr; video reports | 20:19 |
| greyman | %data turkey | 20:20 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +1511 cases (now 303933), +14 recoveries (now 95082) πΈ US: +1378 cases (now 24116) πΉ Bahrain: +5 cases (now 310) πΉ Canada: +58 cases (now 1145) πΉ British Columbia, Canada: +1 deaths (now 9) πΉ Manitoba, Canada: +1 cases (now 18) πΉ Ontario, Canada: +51 cases (now 369), +1 recoveries (now 6) πΉ Costa Rica: +4 cases (now 117) [... want %more?] | 20:20 |
| Brainstorm | greyman: In all areas, Turkey, there are 670 cases, 9 deaths (1.3% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 01:43Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 20:20 |
| python476 | fructose: it's gonna wiggle .. | 20:20 |
| python476 | late lockdowns increase fatalities | 20:20 |
| python476 | but lockdown will slow things down | 20:20 |
| fructose | python476: The low rates from China and South Korea are places where hospital systems kept up with demand. That will not happen everywhere without a stronger response. | 20:20 |
| [itchyjunk] | I take it he is not a real doctor. | 20:20 |
| python476 | itchy I assumed he was a retired MD | 20:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | It says he is a nurse? maybe i am misreading. | 20:22 |
| python476 | My name is John Campbell and I am a retired Nurse Teacher and A and E nurse based in England. | 20:23 |
| python476 | at least a medical field professional | 20:23 |
| [itchyjunk] | ah he has a phd | 20:23 |
| [itchyjunk] | just not a md type | 20:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | so a different type of doctor | 20:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching/about | 20:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | if that's reliable. | 20:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:21 UTC: FDA grants 'emergency use' coronavirus test that can deliver results in 45 minutes: Cepheid has received emergency authorization from the Food and Drug Administration to use its rapid molecular test for point-of-care patients that can detect coronavirus in 45 minutes. This is the first coronavirus that can be conducted [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/s8d595 | 20:25 |
| fructose | 50% is in line with, e.g., Marc Lipsitch's 40-70% estimate | 20:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | doesn't look to be specialist in infecticious disease | 20:25 |
| LjL | well don't take anything at face value anyway, whether or not he's an MD | 20:25 |
| LjL | MDs have said stupid things in the past | 20:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | Yes | 20:25 |
| LjL | just consider what people say, ruminate, and decide if you find it convincing, after a bit of own research if warranted | 20:25 |
| pwr22 | Think I've mentioned in here before that I don't think too much of his videos | 20:26 |
| fructose | Here there were local MDs telling school districts that sending their kids to international competitions in April was safe | 20:26 |
| pwr22 | <pwr22 "Think I've mentioned in here bef"> That said, more learning resources are good ποΈ | 20:27 |
| LjL | yuriwho, that study on ABO blood differences, do you think it can still be considered current? | 20:38 |
| yuriwho | yes | 20:38 |
| LjL | okay, thanks | 20:38 |
| yuriwho | here's a first statistical stab at 'summer will make the virus go away" theorists: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.18.20036731v1 | 20:41 |
| LjL | yuriwho, it was for my own information though, i think i won't be including it in the resources page, because i suspect it will make some people more panicky without a real recourse, and other people underestimate the issue and fail to observe lockdown | 20:41 |
| LjL | Spec may disagree with this assessment ;P | 20:41 |
| yuriwho | I agree | 20:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 19:39 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Normalmente non condividerei articoli del genere, ma in vista del numeri crescenti e devastanti in tutto il mondo, vi condivido un articolo del bbc su come trovare speranza in questi tempi. β from WHO at 19:39: World Water Day 2020 highlights the essential role of handwashing β https://is.gd/PpRz8Z | 20:42 |
| LjL | yuriwho, well it doesn't say "nope", it says, it kinda does, all the better then if you can combine it with good lockdowns | 20:44 |
| yuriwho | it says less | 20:44 |
| python476 | about the PhD/MD flaws | 20:45 |
| tomeaton17 | %data uk | 20:45 |
| Brainstorm | tomeaton17: In all areas, United Kingdom, there are 5018 cases, 233 deaths (4.6% of cases), 65 recoveries as of March 21, 19:34Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 20:45 |
| python476 | I wish we had multiuser skype/hangout sessions with a few professionals so they discuss things and smoothen the errors | 20:46 |
| arnnx | I see | 20:47 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +360 cases (now 304293), +9 deaths (now 12976), +2 recoveries (now 95084) πΉ Bahrain: +5 cases (now 310) πΉ Canada: +118 cases (now 1205), +5 deaths (now 18) πΉ British Columbia, Canada: +1 deaths (now 9) πΉ Manitoba, Canada: +1 cases (now 18) πΉ Ontario, Canada: +51 cases (now 369), +1 recoveries (now 6) πΉ Costa Rica: +4 cases (now 117) [... want %more?] | 20:51 |
| LjL | well it's no good if it tells me +360 but then i don't get to see which country(es) caused it... maybe i *should* sort them before displaying | 20:55 |
| LjL | %more | 20:55 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, [...] πΉ Czechia: +70 cases (now 995) πΉ Ecuador: +80 cases (now 506) πΉ Egypt: +9 cases (now 294), +2 deaths (now 10) πΉ Finland: +2 cases (now 523) πΉ India: +2 cases (now 332) πΉ Ireland: +102 cases (now 785) πΉ Jordan: +14 cases (now 99) πΉ Morocco: +10 cases (now 96), +1 recoveries (now 3) πΉ Norway: +13 cases (now 2141) [...] β https://paste.ee/p/xFmrA | 20:55 |
| LjL | yeah, like Ireland shouldn't be hidden | 20:55 |
| Biep[m] | <LjL "oh. crap. italy. the press confe"> Use the remind bot..? | 20:59 |
| LjL | Biep[m], i thought i had set up an alarm on my watch | 20:59 |
| LjL | but it either failed to trigger, or i turned it off without thinking | 20:59 |
| LjL | anyway, i transcribed the whole thing in the end anyway | 21:00 |
| LjL | uhm the alarm isn't actually set, i don't know what i did | 21:00 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +580 cases (now 304873), +13 deaths (now 12989), +28 recoveries (now 95112) πΈ Turkey: +277 cases (now 947), +12 deaths (now 21) πΉ Austria: +101 cases (now 2948) πΉ Brazil: +7 cases (now 1028) πΉ Germany: +129 cases (now 22213), +1 deaths (now 84) πΉ Lithuania: +16 cases (now 99) πΉ Norway: +1 cases (now 2142) πΉ Poland: +44 cases (now 536) [... want %more?] | 21:09 |
| Biep[m] | OK. Anyway, if you want you can always invite Reminder. | 21:09 |
| Biep[m] | * LjL: OK. Anyway, if you want you can always invite Reminder. | 21:09 |
| mefistofeles | %cases Ireland | 21:10 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Ireland, there are 785 cases, 3 deaths (0.4% of cases), 5 recoveries as of March 21, 20:04Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Ireland for time series data. | 21:10 |
| [itchyjunk] | %cases uganda | 21:12 |
| Brainstorm | [itchyjunk]: Sorry, uganda not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 21:12 |
| Alohomora | %stats spain | 21:13 |
| Brainstorm | Alohomora: In all areas, Spain, there are 25374 cases, 1378 deaths (5.4% of cases), 2125 recoveries as of March 21, 20:04Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Spain for time series data. | 21:13 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %stats Turkey | 21:14 |
| Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 947 cases, 21 deaths (2.2% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 21, 20:04Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 21:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:08 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: FDA OKs 'emergency use' test, brief stops at NYC and Philly airports β from WHO at 20:08: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/7xQZ3J | 21:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from Our COVID links* at 20:23 UTC: ljl-covid: Test commit, no reall change β from WHO at 20:23: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/XYQIQu | 21:29 |
| LjL | but now i have to edit my commit message | 21:30 |
| formerlyrandom | hello from Canada | 21:34 |
| LjL | hi | 21:34 |
| formerlyrandom | narrative here is kinda scary | 21:34 |
| formerlyrandom | these official SOUND scared | 21:34 |
| LjL | ours should sound more scared than they do | 21:34 |
| formerlyrandom | shaky | 21:34 |
| formerlyrandom | who knew fear is easy to detect, nevermind the narrative whatever it is | 21:35 |
| LjL | some people are better than others at detection emotions from looks and voice etc | 21:36 |
| formerlyrandom | got me a bit freaked | 21:36 |
| LjL | you should fear this. "freaked" maybe that's something to be kept under some control insomuch as possible, if it equates to panic | 21:36 |
| formerlyrandom | narrative be damned..they could be taking about coastal salmon I know fear. LjL okay duly noted | 21:37 |
| LjL | this virus is dangerous, it's not a flu, the lockdowns are not knee-jerk reactions, and if anything they tend to come too late | 21:38 |
| formerlyrandom | LjL, https://gem.cbc.ca/live/1711321155969 don't know if it's me or what. | 21:45 |
| AimHere | formerlyrandom, that link only works in Canada | 21:47 |
| Biep[m] | !cases uganda | 21:54 |
| CovBot | I have searched my data but cannot find a match for uganda. It might be under a different name or there may be no cases! If I am wrong let @pwr22:shortestpath.dev know. | 21:54 |
| Biep[m] | !cases u* | 21:55 |
| Biep[m] | !cases *gan | 21:55 |
| CovBot | In Gansu, China there have been a total of 134 cases as of 2020-03-21 03:13:13 UTC. Of these 19 (14.2%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 113 (84.3%) have definitely recovered and 2 (1.5%) have died. | 21:55 |
| Biep[m] | Sorry for the unintended spam. | 21:56 |
| bin_bash | not spam :) | 21:57 |
| bin_bash | dont thnk uganda is reporting cases | 21:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:51 UTC: Vaccine scientist: βEverything is so new in dealing with this coronavirusβ: Hanneke Schuitemaker, who is leading a team working on a Covid-19 vaccine, tells of the latest developments and what needs to be done now β from WHO at 20:51: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/3Eo7Bc | 22:00 |
| danielp3344 | I need a way to earn money during the pandemic | 22:00 |
| danielp3344 | I was in the process of looking for a new job when it started, and nobody is hiring mechanics now | 22:01 |
| danielp3344 | especially for small engines | 22:01 |
| python476 | small as in ? motorbikes ? | 22:02 |
| python476 | I'd love to have a job right now | 22:02 |
| danielp3344 | python476: I mean, I *can* work on cars but I prefer smaller stuff | 22:02 |
| danielp3344 | lawn mowers, motorcycles, go karts, atvs, generators that kind of stuff | 22:03 |
| danielp3344 | I briefly had a job working on cars and it kinda sucked | 22:03 |
| danielp3344 | <python476 "I'd love to have a job right now"> I don't have one either, that's my point :P | 22:04 |
| danielp3344 | I'm wondering what kind of money could be made now.... | 22:04 |
| ryouma | generators could be useful for hospitals. fix ventilators. otherwise deliver food and medicine. | 22:06 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +290 cases (now 305168), +4 deaths (now 12994), +44 recoveries (now 95161) πΉ Brazil: +100 cases (now 1128) πΉ Canada: +75 cases (now 1280) πΉ Cyprus: +3 recoveries (now 3) πΉ Germany: +24 recoveries (now 233) πΉ Japan: +17 recoveries (now 232) πΉ Kazakhstan: +1 cases (now 54) πΉ Norway: +8 cases (now 2150) πΉ Palestine: +1 cases (now 53) [... want %more?] | 22:07 |
| python476 | danielp3344: funny, why is that ? easier to access ? | 22:17 |
| roosted | %data Netherlands | 22:17 |
| Brainstorm | roosted: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 3631 cases, 136 deaths (3.7% of cases), 2 recoveries as of March 21, 21:03Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data. | 22:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:10 UTC: (news): New York City area airports resume flights after brief halt as coronavirus causes staffing issues β from WHO at 21:10: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/FPtj78 | 22:19 |
| python476 | what's the status on vitamin d ? | 22:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 21:20 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Lombardia β from WHO at 21:20: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/3dcKdA | 22:25 |
| LjL | python476, specifically about COVID-19, no idea, although it has often been suggested as beneficial (but i suspect only if you have a deficiency). still, you probably *do* have a deficiency when you're under lockdown, so it's probably good to supplement it a little | 22:27 |
| LjL | formerlyrandom, yeah i can't watch that from out of Canada either | 22:28 |
| LjL | what are these phonecalls even for, or at least why do they publish them for | 22:29 |
| LjL | nothing is said | 22:29 |
| LjL | or again nothing is reported anyway, so why do i need/want to know | 22:30 |
| bin_bash | drink whole milk/whole milk products and take a multivitamin python476 | 22:31 |
| LjL | why= | 22:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:30 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Coronavirus: Expert says new symptoms could be loss of taste or smell | UK News | Sky News β from WHO at 21:30: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/moLa6b | 22:32 |
| LjL | that sounds like neurological symptoms | 22:32 |
| formerlyrandom | shit, well guess I'll set up a proxy :) | 22:32 |
| formerlyrandom | if anyone cares.. | 22:32 |
| ryouma | d lasts for quite a while; it is fat soluble. also you don't want too much. | 22:32 |
| ryouma | fat soluble | 22:33 |
| LjL | you want about 4000-8000 IU daily, is what i know as a typical daily dose assuming no sun exposure and no significant intake from foods | 22:35 |
| LjL | formerlyrandom, i've think we've seen enough videos of scared people, most likely. you should just take it as a sign that there's reason for concern, no matter what they actually say. this channel can probably help you discern concerns. | 22:35 |
| formerlyrandom | ok LjL. Why does it sound like war prep? | 22:36 |
| formerlyrandom | ty btw | 22:36 |
| LjL | formerlyrandom, it has been compared to war by many people, in many countries. i've often heard this kind of comparison and it has left me perplexed. i think there are similarities between a war and the inevitable lockdown most countries are going to have... but there are probably more differences than similarities | 22:37 |
| AimHere | Well in order to stop the disease spreading - and killing about as many people as a World War, there has to be a massive mobilization of everybody to radically alter their lifestyles. | 22:37 |
| LjL | still, the people who've cautioned "it'll be like war" have turned out to be right in other respects | 22:37 |
| LjL | at least they cautioned that stronger measures were needed, while other people were saying "it's all blown out of proportion" | 22:37 |
| LjL | no one is saying that (here) anymore now | 22:37 |
| AimHere | But yeah, there are differences and similarties | 22:37 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +671 cases (now 305839), +4 deaths (now 12998), +6 recoveries (now 95167) πΈ US: +644 cases (now 24786), +2 deaths (now 290) πΉ Austria: +17 cases (now 2970) πΉ Brazil: +100 cases (now 1128) πΉ Canada: +75 cases (now 1280), +1 deaths (now 19) πΉ British Columbia, Canada: +76 cases (now 424), +1 deaths (now 10) πΉ New Brunswick, Canada: +6 cases (now 17) [... want %more?] | 22:37 |
| LjL | look at the US, it drops out new cases like candy out of a hole in a kid's pocket | 22:38 |
| formerlyrandom | seems like actual war no? | 22:38 |
| LjL | no | 22:38 |
| LjL | i don't see bombings | 22:38 |
| formerlyrandom | yet | 22:38 |
| LjL | well, if we do see bombings, it's likely it'll be because of *war*, not COVID | 22:38 |
| LjL | i don't think we need this to be "like war" for it to be extremely concerning | 22:39 |
| AimHere | I'm wondering what effects this disease is going to have in the Syrian Civil War | 22:39 |
| LjL | just like saying it's "like flu" is unhelpful | 22:39 |
| LjL | comparisons with things that are only partly comparable are misleading unless very contextualized | 22:39 |
| formerlyrandom | I'd like to maintain that filling up hospitals then launching a full offensive is a practical military tactic | 22:39 |
| LjL | AimHere, well, Erdogan already upped his attacks on Syria the moment Europe started having this as a serious problem | 22:40 |
| AimHere | Ugh | 22:40 |
| LjL | formerlyrandom, we don't really speculate about things like that here | 22:40 |
| LjL | if you have contacts with politicians or leaders that do know they're doing those things, then, well, take precautions | 22:40 |
| Arsanerit | How many people in COVID-19-hit countries have ever experienced war? | 22:40 |
| AimHere | formerlyrandom, Releasing a plague you can't control doesn't seem very practical at all | 22:40 |
| LjL | but otherwise, that's extremely wild speculation and nothing else, tbh | 22:40 |
| formerlyrandom | really? | 22:40 |
| AimHere | Arsanerit, all of them | 22:40 |
| Arsanerit | What is the use of a "it will be like war" comparison to an American, or a European below the age of 80? | 22:41 |
| AimHere | Arsanerit, sorry, all the countries, not all the people | 22:41 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, that's a good point | 22:41 |
| LjL | AimHere, arguably true | 22:41 |
| Arsanerit | AimHere: When was the last war on US soil? Civil war? | 22:41 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, i seem to recall something called Pearl Harbor | 22:41 |
| LjL | and there were also aerial attacks on the US during WW2 | 22:41 |
| LjL | not many of them, but some | 22:42 |
| AimHere | Arsanerit, The US was drafting civilians en masse to fight wars well within living memory | 22:42 |
| formerlyrandom | what about language | 22:42 |
| Arsanerit | AimHere: Not on US sail. | 22:42 |
| AimHere | Arsanerit, what difference does that make? | 22:42 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: Not many people were affected by those, proportionally. | 22:42 |
| Arsanerit | AimHere: That makes a world of difference. | 22:42 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, well nobody said "it's like war on our soil" i believe | 22:42 |
| LjL | formerlyrandom, language? | 22:42 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, true, but if we're getting technical... | 22:42 |
| Arsanerit | AimHere: Whether you're in a city under siege where 30% of the population dies from famine, or whether a couple of sons are sent to fight a war far away, makes a huge, huge differenec | 22:43 |
| LjL | if we're not, then i think we should simply say it's a bit of a moot comparison | 22:43 |
| AimHere | Arsanerit, if the issue is how many people have been in a war, drafting people to fight in a foreign country does seem like it should count | 22:43 |
| formerlyrandom | double speak? LjL I don't trust media and come to freenode to get clarity | 22:43 |
| LjL | formerlyrandom, you will just get many different opinions. | 22:43 |
| LjL | freenode isn't somehow a unitary entity providing truth | 22:43 |
| formerlyrandom | but ur smarts no? | 22:43 |
| aeth | no | 22:43 |
| LjL | i can't speak for others, i'm probably average. | 22:44 |
| AimHere | We're differently-flavoured dumb | 22:44 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: Then what /do/ people mean when they say "it will be like war"? Do they mean "hundreds of thousands will be protesting in the streets that our government is sending soldiers to die for oil money"? | 22:44 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: how can I believe that's true? | 22:44 |
| Arsanerit | I don't think that's what they mean tbh. | 22:44 |
| mefistofeles | :) | 22:44 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, everything i ever say is false | 22:44 |
| aeth | if you come on IRC you're just getting stuff from the media several layers removed, probably via something like reddit or Hacker News first. | 22:44 |
| formerlyrandom | lol | 22:44 |
| Arsanerit | I don't think war is a useful analogy. | 22:44 |
| formerlyrandom | yes hackers | 22:44 |
| formerlyrandom | exactemundo | 22:44 |
| Arsanerit | Except perhaps in the sense of a "war economy" | 22:44 |
| formerlyrandom | smartest | 22:44 |
| jiffe | I see US cases are close to climbing the ranks in confirmed count, almost #3 now.. | 22:44 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, i don't know what they do mean, i think they intend to signify that it's an incredibly dangerous event, at least incredibly much more than other people seem to think... but as i said, i don't think it's an apt comparison, so you should ask them what they mean, not me :P | 22:45 |
| LjL | also, presumably, that you will have things similar to curfews, difficulty in finding some goods... | 22:45 |
| Arsanerit | Perhaps in the sense of a government of national unity with the power to order businesses to divert from their regular production and work toward the production of supplies needed to fight the pandemic. | 22:45 |
| LjL | but many emergencies come with issues of that sort | 22:45 |
| AimHere | Arsanerit, it's kindof the opposite of a war economy, but the central control and the mobilization of a lot of resources to one or other end has some similarities | 22:45 |
| formerlyrandom | am I able to say someone is making a move? | 22:45 |
| LjL | formerlyrandom, what? | 22:45 |
| formerlyrandom | seems tactical | 22:45 |
| LjL | i'm not following. is it my english? | 22:46 |
| AimHere | formerlyrandom, tactical global pandemics would be a hitherto unprecedented and utterly baffling military strategy | 22:46 |
| formerlyrandom | why though | 22:46 |
| formerlyrandom | AimHere, | 22:46 |
| LjL | okay let me clarify, it probably wasn't clear earlier: speculations to that sort of extent are not something i'd like to see | 22:46 |
| AimHere | formerlyrandom, because any country that's just tried to kill tends of millions of random people across the world has a) no real way of making good miltiary use of it and b) now has to fight a war against the entire world | 22:47 |
| formerlyrandom | ok. last time, sorry. I just like looking at every aspect | 22:47 |
| formerlyrandom | AimHere, we are over populated | 22:47 |
| formerlyrandom | looks for another chan.. | 22:48 |
| formerlyrandom | :) | 22:48 |
| LjL | mhm | 22:48 |
| LjL | even if it's caused by an evil leader or whatever you're thinking - think about preparing, and ideally not getting this, instead | 22:48 |
| LjL | you can be busy enough with those thoughts in the coming weeks, i assure you | 22:49 |
| LjL | %cases us | 22:50 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, US, there are 24786 cases, 290 deaths (1.2% of cases), 171 recoveries as of March 21, 21:48Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 22:50 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, your site is getting somewhat slow i think, do you think you have a lot more traffic than before? | 22:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 21:48 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Potete vedere la diretta qui su youtube: β from WHO at 21:48: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/UbVUxv | 22:50 |
| LjL | la diretta di che? | 22:51 |
| LjL | uh oh | 22:51 |
| LjL | PM Conte speaking | 22:51 |
| LjL | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxdbaZk6CoY | 22:52 |
| LjL | soon, i assume | 22:52 |
| AimHere | Haven't you already had a briefing today? | 22:52 |
| LjL | AimHere, yes but that's the Civil Protection press conference that they have every day | 22:53 |
| LjL | this is a breaking announcement | 22:53 |
| AimHere | S'what I mean. This is something special, and/or worrying | 22:53 |
| LjL | i assume he'll be announcing stricter lockdowns | 22:53 |
| LjL | yes | 22:53 |
| LjL | not entirely unexpected | 22:54 |
| LjL | sort of hoped for, even, depending on what he says | 22:54 |
| AimHere | Either that or he's discovered the identity of the evil supervillain who's behind this virus | 22:54 |
| AimHere | And formerlyrandom gets vindicated! | 22:54 |
| AimHere | My money's on Elon Musk | 22:54 |
| formerlyrandom | single? I'm thinking more like Dr. Strangelove | 22:55 |
| formerlyrandom | council | 22:55 |
| formerlyrandom | yes yes | 22:55 |
| LjL | what the hell are you on about | 22:55 |
| formerlyrandom | fun? | 22:55 |
| AimHere | LjL, he's making a reference to the apocalyptic black comedy movie Dr Strangelove | 22:56 |
| LjL | hm | 22:56 |
| formerlyrandom | war room, not a single person | 22:56 |
| formerlyrandom | bickering and such etc etc | 22:56 |
| formerlyrandom | SUPER effing good btw | 22:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 21:49 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: CercherΓ² di aggiornare il thread con quello che dice Conte dal vivo. Chiedo perdono per eventuali errori che verranno corrette. β from WHO at 21:49: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/xct8UK | 22:57 |
| ubLIX | LjL: will you be translating, or dpasting? | 22:58 |
| LjL | if he eventually speaks, both, probably | 22:59 |
| LjL | it should already have started, but evidently he's late | 23:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 22:00 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Mentre aspettiamo questa diretta, un nuovo tweet da Tedros Ghebreyesus β from WHO at 22:00: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/1Qb9QN | 23:03 |
| Brainstorm | πΈ World: +255 cases (now 306094) πΉ Austria: +39 cases (now 2992) πΉ Brazil: +100 cases (now 1128) πΉ Canada: +123 cases (now 1328), +1 deaths (now 19) πΉ British Columbia, Canada: +76 cases (now 424), +1 deaths (now 10) πΉ New Brunswick, Canada: +6 cases (now 17) πΉ Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada: +2 cases (now 6) πΉ Nova Scotia, Canada: +6 cases (now 21) [... want %more?] | 23:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:03 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: FDA OKs 'emergency use' test, global cases top 300,000: The coronavirus has infected more than 303,180 and killed at least 12,944 worldwide, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. β from WHO at 22:03: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/7xQZ3J | 23:09 |
| LjL | RAI1 just broke in with a breaking edition of the news | 23:09 |
| [itchyjunk] | Whats a RAI1? | 23:12 |
| [itchyjunk] | Nations with automates and semi-automated system for farming might only need few dedicated workers for majority of harvesting and such. | 23:13 |
| [itchyjunk] | But some crops and some nations are heavily reliant on a healthy workforce for food harvest. | 23:13 |
| [itchyjunk] | I've no seen anyone publicly address this issue in a reassuring ways. | 23:14 |
| [itchyjunk] | ~2+ months means this might also be an issue. | 23:14 |
| AimHere | Thing is, the virus doesn't kill enough of a percentage of the population that it's an issue | 23:14 |
| [itchyjunk] | It makes you sick. | 23:14 |
| [itchyjunk] | For weeks. | 23:14 |
| [itchyjunk] | Sick people can't work. | 23:14 |
| AimHere | It makes ~15-20% of the population sick | 23:14 |
| AimHere | That still leaves a lot of unemployed people while you're in lockdown | 23:14 |
| [itchyjunk] | 1/3 to 2/3 gets infected. | 23:14 |
| [itchyjunk] | 20% of 8 billion is a sizable number. | 23:15 |
| alohaferret | how accurate are the tests at this point | 23:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | You can't mobalize random people for farming. | 23:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | alohaferret, which test? | 23:15 |
| alohaferret | covid | 23:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | there are about 2 dozen different tests now. | 23:15 |
| AimHere | That's not the point. There are enough people who won't be sick at any one time to keep the food situation going | 23:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | "covid" is not a test. | 23:15 |
| AimHere | and, yes, you CAN mobilize random people for farming | 23:15 |
| alohaferret | covid19? | 23:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | Random people can't work at farms | 23:15 |
| AimHere | Yes they can | 23:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | covid19 is the disease. | 23:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | Not a test. | 23:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | No, you can't. | 23:15 |
| [itchyjunk] | We've seen this in natural calamities already. | 23:16 |
| AimHere | All you need for most farm labour is a reasonable level of fitness | 23:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | Farms go unharvested. | 23:16 |
| python476 | a RAI1 is the predecessor of a RAIdue | 23:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | Do you have citation for this population mobalization? | 23:16 |
| AimHere | Which calamities? | 23:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | Because even in USA, farms were left unharvested after natural disasters. | 23:16 |
| AimHere | Which natural disasters? | 23:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | Evacuations after weather events, forest fires, etc. | 23:16 |
| [itchyjunk] | Heck, people left horses and pets to die. | 23:17 |
| AimHere | You mean ones where people couldn't work because the land was too dangerous to work in | 23:17 |
| AimHere | That's not the case here. People can work | 23:17 |
| [itchyjunk] | No, weather passes. | 23:17 |
| [itchyjunk] | Storms pass. | 23:17 |
| [itchyjunk] | But farms are left unharvested post event. | 23:17 |
| AimHere | That's because there wasn't a threat to US food security | 23:17 |
| [itchyjunk] | In some cases, to claim insurance, you can't harvest it. | 23:17 |
| [itchyjunk] | Are you going to cite something or do I have to take your word because you're an expert? | 23:18 |
| AimHere | If people are starting to lose track of food, food will not be left unharvested to mollify the insurance companies | 23:18 |
| [itchyjunk] | "If there is a pandemic, governments will not wait for people to die." | 23:18 |
| alohaferret | anyone here in uk | 23:19 |
| AimHere | alohaferret, I am | 23:19 |
| Albright | Minor chills and soreness. Hmm. No coofs yet. | 23:19 |
| [itchyjunk] | Whats coofs? | 23:19 |
| alohaferret | i was talking to another uk person they said stores are really bad, nothing on shelves | 23:19 |
| AimHere | alohaferret, there were a lot of bare shelves last time I went to the supermarket yes | 23:19 |
| [itchyjunk] | alohaferret, i'm in USA. 5 days and 17 stores later, no rice to be bad. | 23:19 |
| alohaferret | coofs is coughs | 23:19 |
| [itchyjunk] | had* | 23:19 |
| [itchyjunk] | ah coughs, okay | 23:20 |
| alohaferret | what part of usa [itchyjunk] | 23:20 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "it should already have started, "> The italian boss guy? He doesn't seem to be very prompt | 23:20 |
| [itchyjunk] | west usa | 23:20 |
| Albright | I saw rice at my local grocery store today. | 23:20 |
| alohaferret | i'm in contact with lots of people in u.s. have not heard of rice shortage | 23:20 |
| pwr22 | alohaferret: yeah uk stores are pretty bad, no pasta or rice seen in weeks | 23:20 |
| LjL | it's italy, we're never on time | 23:20 |
| Albright | [itchyjunk]: Did you try Asian specialty stores? | 23:20 |
| [itchyjunk] | I'm been asking people from few different states. All have rice sortages. | 23:20 |
| alohaferret | i'm most concerned about uk people starving | 23:21 |
| [itchyjunk] | I even checked multi state stores and online stores for costco and wal mart. | 23:21 |
| [itchyjunk] | The affirm it. | 23:21 |
| AimHere | alohaferret, there is food. It's just that for some reason, idiots are panic-buying | 23:21 |
| pwr22 | Well, there were some microwave rice packet things actually | 23:21 |
| alohaferret | have you gone to mom and pop stores | 23:21 |
| [itchyjunk] | I don't think starvation is an issue for at least ~2-3 months. | 23:21 |
| [itchyjunk] | alohaferret, no. I didn't want to pay higher prices. | 23:21 |
| [itchyjunk] | Still looking for "regular" priced stuff. | 23:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 22:15 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: La diretta dovrebbe iniziare alle 23:15 secondo la Repubblica β from WHO at 22:15: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/Y28sMM | 23:21 |
| alohaferret | if there isnt anything on shelves then starvation is issue | 23:21 |
| pwr22 | UK people clearly need their beer | 23:22 |
| AimHere | alohaferret, not really. | 23:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | Shelving is a manpower issue. | 23:22 |
| LjL | here are graphs of the hardest-hit provinces in Italy. I'd look at the Milan line https://framapic.org/OzZNqsMygRi7/4x0cJjqNyHGU.png (partly because that's me) | 23:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | For now. | 23:22 |
| AimHere | alohaferret, the panic buying can't be maintained for six weeks | 23:22 |
| alohaferret | i hope not | 23:22 |
| Albright | "I don't want to pay higher prices in times of a shortage," okay. Β―\_(γ)_/Β― | 23:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | Milano is Milan? | 23:22 |
| AimHere | alohaferret, put it this way - consumption hasn't increased, except for the real idiots who are trying to hoard perishables | 23:22 |
| pwr22 | <AimHere "alohaferret, the panic buying ca"> Challenge accepted | 23:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | I should pay higher prices? | 23:22 |
| LjL | [itchyjunk], that's very clever of you to infer that | 23:22 |
| [itchyjunk] | Why is that? | 23:22 |
| alohaferret | ca? | 23:23 |
| AimHere | alohaferret, so at some point, the hoarders must give in to sanity | 23:23 |
| Albright | [itchyjunk]: It's basic economics. | 23:23 |
| [itchyjunk] | Is it? | 23:23 |
| [itchyjunk] | It's illegal in a lot of US states to up prices during emergency. | 23:23 |
| Albright | Or, I mean, you can just eat a different grain. | 23:23 |
| alohaferret | yes gouging is illegal now | 23:23 |
| pwr22 | <AimHere "alohaferret, put it this way - c"> Everyone in the UK | 23:23 |
| Albright | Those sorts of laws are idiotic, but such is government policy. | 23:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | Idk if gouging is illegal elsewhere. | 23:24 |
| pwr22 | There were almost no vegetables | 23:24 |
| pwr22 | In any stores | 23:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | Albright, you are welcome to your opinions. | 23:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | But laws are laws. | 23:24 |
| LjL | --- Italy's PM Conte speaking now at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxdbaZk6CoY (on Facebook originally, this is a re-stream). I'm going to translate/transcribe now. | 23:24 |
| pwr22 | But there was some some fruit | 23:24 |
| Albright | As is everyone. | 23:24 |
| LjL | From the beginning, I choose transparency, sharing. | 23:24 |
| LjL | I choose not to minimize, not to hide reality. | 23:24 |
| AimHere | pwr22, right, but anyone with a hoard can't eat them all before they go off | 23:24 |
| [itchyjunk] | I've had "Milano" cookies but I never knew the word was same as "Milan". | 23:24 |
| AimHere | pwr22, so that's the case where there is an increase in 'consumption' | 23:24 |
| LjL | The challenge we're called to face, and the hardest crisis after WW2, I'm sharing with you. | 23:24 |
| alohaferret | i see the news stories and i may be retarded beyond hope but part of me does not believe it | 23:24 |
| AimHere | pwr22, the household supplies of rice and pasta aren't ebing consumed significantly faster than normal | 23:25 |
| LjL | We are called to face images, news that hurt us, that leave a sign that will stay forever in our memory, even when this will be over - we hope soon. | 23:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | pwr22, no fresh veggies around me either. | 23:25 |
| AimHere | pwr22, so demand will surely stabilize | 23:25 |
| LjL | The deaths of so many citizens is a pain that is renewed every day. | 23:25 |
| LjL | These deaths, for our values, are not just numbers, but histories of families that are losing their beloved. | 23:25 |
| alohaferret | anyway i read some articles that testing was lots of false positives | 23:25 |
| Albright | The hardest crisis since WWII? Hmm, for Italy, I guess that's true. | 23:25 |
| LjL | The measures we already adopted require time before they can show some effects. | 23:25 |
| LjL | We are called to respect all of them with patience and with trust. | 23:25 |
| [itchyjunk] | Depend on what type of "test" was used. | 23:25 |
| alohaferret | yea i suppose ofc which test matters | 23:26 |
| [itchyjunk] | There are all sorts of tests. i think the qPCR is fairly accurate compared to anything else | 23:26 |
| LjL | They are difficult measures, I understand: it's not easy to stay home, to renounce many things, but we have no alternatives. | 23:26 |
| LjL | That's the only way we can help ourselves and the people we love. | 23:26 |
| [itchyjunk] | The Chinese have antigen tests but that's not `that` accurate. | 23:26 |
| [itchyjunk] | so you always need to double check, for example. | 23:26 |
| alohaferret | pcr testing is very suspect if you've read carey mullis, inventor of the tech | 23:26 |
| LjL | Besides, our sacrifice to stay home is minimal if you compare it to the people in the hospitals and other vital places for the country's life. | 23:26 |
| [itchyjunk] | pcr has come a looooong way since it's invention. | 23:26 |
| LjL | I'm thinking of doctors, nurses, but also police forces, the armed forces, the people in the Civil Protection, the employees of supermarkets, pharmacists... | 23:27 |
| alohaferret | well i'm not a medical person | 23:27 |
| LjL | Women and men who are not just going to work but are doing, every day, an act of great responsibility for the nation. | 23:27 |
| LjL | They're making an act of love for Italy as a whole. | 23:27 |
| [itchyjunk] | I wounldn't ask Newton if he trusted calculus. | 23:27 |
| LjL | Today, we decided to take a further step. | 23:27 |
| [itchyjunk] | alohaferret, i generally ask dunnp since she does this type of stuff for a living in her research lab. | 23:27 |
| LjL | The decision we took is to close, on the whole national territory, every production activity, except for those that are absolutely necessary and crucial to guarantee essential services and goods. | 23:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 22:25 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Conte : 'Dall'inizio ho scelto la trasparenza (...)' β from WHO at 22:25: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/0wJlSN | 23:27 |
| [itchyjunk] | Maybe we can summon her to answer some questions. | 23:28 |
| dunnp | [itchyjunk]: I was able to find a lot of those pre-mixed rice packets | 23:28 |
| LjL | We have worked with the unions to determine the most necessary services. | 23:28 |
| dunnp | no big bag of rice though | 23:28 |
| [itchyjunk] | dunnp, ah. i meant sacks of rice :s | 23:28 |
| [itchyjunk] | 50lbs ones. | 23:28 |
| LjL | All supermarkets will stay open, as will the shops for food and essentials. | 23:28 |
| alohaferret | if i was a rice eater i would pay extra to secure my rice | 23:28 |
| dunnp | yea luckily I had a giant one from costco about half full | 23:28 |
| LjL | So notice well that we have introduced NO restrictions on opening hours of supermarkets. | 23:28 |
| LjL | There is no reason to create unjustified crowds. | 23:28 |
| [itchyjunk] | dunnp, i have one unopend one from costco. | 23:28 |
| LjL | Pharmacies and parapharmacies will also remain open, as will banking and financial services. | 23:28 |
| LjL | We'll continue to provide public transportation. | 23:29 |
| [itchyjunk] | costco was limiting almost everything to 1 per customer now. food items. | 23:29 |
| LjL | [gah] | 23:29 |
| LjL | We'll also allow any activities which are connected to essential ones. | 23:29 |
| [itchyjunk] | alohaferret, i am cheap :( | 23:29 |
| alohaferret | here the smaller stores are better stocked | 23:29 |
| LjL | Outside of those, we will only allow remote working. | 23:29 |
| [itchyjunk] | dunnp, how accurate are these tests? | 23:29 |
| alohaferret | some like perfectly stocked | 23:29 |
| LjL | Plus, production activities that are considered relevant to the national production. | 23:29 |
| LjL | [?!] | 23:29 |
| LjL | We're slowing down the country's engine, but we're not stopping it. | 23:29 |
| LjL | It's a decision that prepares us to face the most acute phase of contagion. | 23:29 |
| LjL | Today, in particular, we must contain the epidemic as much as possible. | 23:30 |
| LjL | The health emergency is becoming a full-blown economy emergency. | 23:30 |
| LjL | But I am telling to all of you: the state is there, the state is with you. | 23:30 |
| alohaferret | why is the 19th iteration of covid so much worse than 1-18 | 23:30 |
| LjL | The government will introduce extraordinary measures to start again. | 23:30 |
| ryouma | alohaferret: 2019 | 23:30 |
| LjL | Our community must hold tight together, like a chain protecting the most important good: life. | 23:30 |
| [itchyjunk] | alohaferret, covid-19 is the disease. | 23:30 |
| LjL | If only one ring of that protection barrier failed, it'd expose us to graver dangers. | 23:30 |
| [itchyjunk] | caused by SARS-CoV-2 | 23:30 |
| [itchyjunk] | SARS-CoV was deadlier. | 23:31 |
| LjL | Those things you can no longer do, which seem a step back today, tomorrow will allow us to restart with more force. | 23:31 |
| fructose | LjL: I might argue that near-total 14-day shutdown is better for the economy than what is going to happen now | 23:31 |
| [itchyjunk] | You might know it by the naem SARS from early 2000s | 23:31 |
| alohaferret | i remember sars | 23:31 |
| LjL | We are giving up our dearest habits; we are doing it because we love Italy, but we do not renounce hope in the future. | 23:31 |
| LjL | United, we will make it. | 23:31 |
| LjL | --- end | 23:31 |
| LjL | this is underwhelming, as i feared | 23:31 |
| LjL | public transport still open | 23:31 |
| AimHere | Well people still need to go to work at the essential services | 23:32 |
| Albright | "the state is there, the state is with you." Creepy. | 23:32 |
| ryouma | i hate that kind of political talk | 23:32 |
| alohaferret | does anyone think that at the end of this we will see sate enforced mandatory vaccinations | 23:32 |
| dunnp | [itchyjunk]: the test is as accurate as the primers that you are using and often taqman is incredibly accurate | 23:32 |
| dunnp | can use taqman to detect 1bp change in DNA sequence | 23:32 |
| [itchyjunk] | alohaferret, ^ | 23:33 |
| AimHere | alohaferret, I think at the end of this, it won't be physically safe to be an antivaxxer in public | 23:33 |
| [itchyjunk] | 1bp? | 23:33 |
| [itchyjunk] | base pair? | 23:33 |
| [itchyjunk] | oh | 23:33 |
| dunnp | yep | 23:33 |
| [itchyjunk] | thats pretty accurate | 23:33 |
| alohaferret | dunnp you have medical degree? | 23:33 |
| [itchyjunk] | only a phd | 23:33 |
| dunnp | ^ | 23:33 |
| [itchyjunk] | and a h-index higher than my iq | 23:33 |
| dunnp | "only" | 23:33 |
| alohaferret | degree in what | 23:33 |
| dunnp | alohaferret: computational biology | 23:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 22:32 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Dichiarazioni del Presidente Conte - YouTube β from WHO at 22:32: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/T2fae8 | 23:34 |
| alohaferret | i'm sourcing info from different camps | 23:34 |
| LjL | So https://dpaste.org/5tM4 is my translation of PM Conte's speech announcing further lockdowns on Italy (although it's not entirely clear to me which lockdowns, given the tons of exceptions). | 23:34 |
| alohaferret | dunnp explain to me why carey mullis is full of shit | 23:35 |
| [itchyjunk] | whats a carey mullis? | 23:35 |
| [itchyjunk] | Oh, he's already dead. | 23:36 |
| dunnp | alohaferret: he thinks HIV doesn't cause AIDS... | 23:36 |
| alohaferret | does he have any credibility since he was involved with inventing pcr tech | 23:36 |
| Alohomora | %stats spain | 23:38 |
| Brainstorm | Alohomora: In all areas, Spain, there are 25496 cases, 1378 deaths (5.4% of cases), 2125 recoveries as of March 21, 22:30Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Spain for time series data. | 23:38 |
| dunnp | I dono alohaferret | 23:38 |
| yuriwho | I have emailed the ventilator re-purposing info to the Ontario gvmt website for COVID supplies and equipment | 23:38 |
| dunnp | he says that he came up with PCR while on LSD driving down highway 1 or something like that | 23:38 |
| alohaferret | he had patent rights | 23:38 |
| yuriwho | Cary Mullis? | 23:38 |
| alohaferret | was bought out | 23:38 |
| yuriwho | I've met him | 23:39 |
| dunnp | yea that patent | 23:39 |
| dunnp | cost research so much | 23:39 |
| alohaferret | i have vague memories from old articles | 23:39 |
| dunnp | also met him yuriwho | 23:40 |
| alohaferret | is anyone familiar with dr. ray peat's worldview and corona | 23:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 22:37 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Updated case/death "trajectory" charts from Financial Times. Trajectories are normalized by aligning them to the date at which a minimum milestone of cases/deaths was reached. This allows countries to be roughly compared independently of when the outbreak began locally. [... want %more?] β https://is.gd/jxuCvu | 23:40 |
| yuriwho | alohaferret: not I | 23:40 |
| alohaferret | dunnp when are you expecting peak infection in u.s. | 23:41 |
| alohaferret | well it's neither here nor there about the lsd thing but tesla claimed a lot of his were dreamed up then he scienced it after the fact | 23:42 |
| [itchyjunk] | Hard to know peak when you dont know what percent of the population will get infected | 23:42 |
| ryouma | there was no real content in that speech | 23:43 |
| yuriwho | no one knows, depends on how federal, state gvmt's react and how the people respond behaviour-wise | 23:43 |
| Arsanerit | well, you can extrapolate current doubling rates until everybody's sick | 23:44 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, it gets slower before *everyone* is sick, but sort of | 23:44 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: yes, of course | 23:45 |
| LjL | ryouma, i wouldn't say *no* real content, but way too little. he's shutting down some more work activities... big deal. they need to ALL be stopped aside from the very essential ones, and public transport (and private transport mostly) must stop | 23:45 |
| [itchyjunk] | You cant keep doubling it because you don't know how long to double it for. | 23:45 |
| AimHere | Hasn't he just said he's shutting down all non-essential work? | 23:45 |
| Arsanerit | [itchyjunk]: until population size starts to limit the doubling rate, but that assumes "do nothing" scenario | 23:46 |
| Arsanerit | perhaps some isolated villages on Alaskan islands can manage to avoid it completely | 23:46 |
| AimHere | My reading from your translations that it was more or less everything but food, pharmacies and banks, and whatever infrastucture they need | 23:46 |
| pepee | are you people worried about the lack of medical equipment in your areas? | 23:46 |
| LjL | AimHere, no, if you read the whole transcript you will see he excluded " production activities that are considered relevant to the national production" | 23:46 |
| [itchyjunk] | not really. thats over simplification. | 23:46 |
| LjL | AimHere, that could mean just about anything | 23:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 22:39 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Per sta sera finisce cosi. No Recap. Appena disponibile la lista delle aziende consentite, verrΓ condivisa. β from WHO at 22:39: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/Vq7Kvl | 23:46 |
| [itchyjunk] | it could slow down or pick up for all sorts of reason. | 23:46 |
| AimHere | LjL, I supposed that could, though maybe he means food production and medical equipment | 23:46 |
| [itchyjunk] | partly why we have so many different models floating around. | 23:46 |
| Arsanerit | doesn't capitalist theory more or less mean that everything that is produced is relevant by definition? | 23:46 |
| LjL | AimHere, anyway, we will see what the exact details are after midnight or so, when it gets published on Gazzetta Ufficiale | 23:46 |
| LjL | AimHere, no, those were mentioned separately. | 23:46 |
| alohaferret | and what of ozone? | 23:46 |
| LjL | AimHere, i think he was referring to our main exports. | 23:47 |
| [itchyjunk] | relevent is not issential. | 23:47 |
| [itchyjunk] | someone gave the example of plastic keyring. | 23:47 |
| LjL | [itchyjunk], indeed it is not, although my translation of the word "rilevante" can be a bit misleading in english... but even in italian, it's VERY vague | 23:47 |
| LjL | %w rilevante | 23:47 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, rilevante β verb: 1. present participle of rilevare β adjective: 1. remarkable, 2. considerable, 3. relevant β https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rilevante | 23:47 |
| LjL | yeah well what is a remarkable or considerable activity | 23:47 |
| LjL | i'll stick with relevant | 23:47 |
| ryouma | taht is too much wiggle room | 23:48 |
| ryouma | for lobbying | 23:48 |
| LjL | ryouma, way too much. and in the last decree before this one, he SEEMED to say that shops would "all" close except for food, pharmacies and a couple others | 23:48 |
| LjL | and then in reality they could virtually all stay open | 23:48 |
| LjL | to be fair, most didn't (in Milan at least) | 23:48 |
| LjL | but still, the law allowed it | 23:48 |
| alohaferret | in the u.s. liquor stores were considered essential | 23:49 |
| LjL | heard of that one | 23:49 |
| LjL | bit funny | 23:49 |
| LjL | but here a debated one is tobacconists, but i can see two decent reasons to keep them open | 23:49 |
| ryouma | most of them are not even 70% | 23:49 |
| [itchyjunk] | Gamestop was calling it issential. | 23:49 |
| jiffe | we have to keep out livers disinfected somehow... | 23:49 |
| [itchyjunk] | cannabis stores are considered essential. | 23:49 |
| LjL | 1) they do other important financial services especially for people with not too much money | 23:49 |
| Arsanerit | Germany too | 23:49 |
| ryouma | cannabis is medicine | 23:49 |
| LjL | 2) this is really the worst time for an addicted smoker to be forced to quit | 23:49 |
| Arsanerit | do pharmacies cell cannabis there? | 23:50 |
| [itchyjunk] | "weed dispensaries" sell cannabis in USA. | 23:50 |
| yuriwho | alohaferret: here's the projections you want: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf | 23:50 |
| ryouma | where --- 15:49 <[itchyjunk]> cannabis stores are considered essential. | 23:50 |
| [itchyjunk] | That's an edge case projections. | 23:50 |
| [itchyjunk] | I'd hardly call it realistic for what we know currently. | 23:51 |
| [itchyjunk] | ryouma, usa. | 23:51 |
| yuriwho | suck it [itchyjunk] | 23:51 |
| [itchyjunk] | CO and bunch of other states. | 23:51 |
| alohaferret | i guess for some pain patients and cancer patients it could easily be essential | 23:51 |
| [itchyjunk] | Even in Cali. | 23:52 |
| [itchyjunk] | https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-coronavirus-lockdown-cannabis-essential-business | 23:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:45 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: government to unveil $66bn stimulus package as cases pass 1,000 β latest updates β from WHO at 22:45: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe β https://is.gd/E6kVQs | 23:52 |
| alohaferret | so what should i tell my uk friends where to get food supplies | 23:53 |
| [itchyjunk] | From stores as they stock up. Might want to contact stores to ask about that. | 23:54 |
| [itchyjunk] | Best information is one that comes straight from the people filling up the stores. | 23:54 |
| AimHere | Also corner stores. Asian supermarkets will have beans and maybe rice. In huge bags | 23:54 |
| [itchyjunk] | I've contacted 1 "Asian market" and 3 "Chinese groccery stores" about sacks of rice. | 23:55 |
| [itchyjunk] | None have it. | 23:55 |
| Albright | My supermarket of choice actually has been closing at night to restock, so I imagine they're most likely in stock of the most stuff right after they open. | 23:55 |
| Albright | They used to be open 24 hours, so it might also be a staffing thing. | 23:55 |
| [itchyjunk] | If you've had an idea, chances a few other did too. That's how I look at it. | 23:56 |
| Albright | They've been posting their hours on their door - it seems like every time I go, the hours are different. | 23:56 |
| [itchyjunk] | Some stores around me are also closing few hours a night to stock up. | 23:56 |
| [itchyjunk] | Best to ask the individual stores in the area you live. | 23:56 |
| Albright | Well, yeah. I bet the line in front of this place right before it opens is kinda long considering it's a freaking grocery store. | 23:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | When they stock and when supplies are expected. | 23:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | Morning 2 hours is reserved for 60+ people so it's not bad for a few stores here. | 23:57 |
| [itchyjunk] | Never gets a chance to have a line because of this it seems. | 23:57 |
| Albright | That 60+ idea is a good one. Huh. | 23:57 |
| alohaferret | my gf went with me to store last week, she says oh i'm quarranting myself for 2 weeks with my dad, comes out with 2 normal sized bags of food | 23:58 |
| alohaferret | i started lolling | 23:58 |
| [itchyjunk] | Yes, 60+ get to pick at the things that was freshly restocked at night. | 23:58 |
| alohaferret | no shortages here though except for some frozen goods | 23:58 |
| [itchyjunk] | alohaferret, she plans to eat yours! | 23:58 |
| [itchyjunk] | Where is "here"? | 23:58 |
| alohaferret | she's hunkered down at her dad's | 23:58 |
| alohaferret | here is in notgonnadoxmyselfia | 23:59 |
| ryouma | %cases ur | 23:59 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Burkina Faso, there are 64 cases, 3 deaths (4.7% of cases), 5 recoveries as of March 21, 22:45Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Burkina%20Faso for time series data. | 23:59 |
| ryouma | %cases ut | 23:59 |
| alohaferret | so we're on 3rd trip to the store and she's been out every 2 days | 23:59 |
| alohaferret | 4th trip on monday | 23:59 |
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