| LjL | also encouraging (and eerie) https://www.milanocam.it/BuenosAires_1/images_archive.php?archive_display_date=20200322&archive_display_hour=10&rotate=yes | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:52 UTC: Trump activates National Guard in California, New York and Washington state to fight coronavirus outbreak: The state governors will retain command of the National Guard, but the Federal Emergency Management Agency will cover all costs of the missions to respond to the virus outbreak, President Trump said during a White [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/VX1Ye0 | 00:00 |
| LjL | pepee, good one. i can't judge whether the masks themselves are appropriate and protective, but she makes good points about "why" we've been told not to wear them, and strengthens her point with links to papers | 00:02 |
| pepee | yup | 00:02 |
| python47` | gonna read some AI pdf | 00:05 |
| python47` | see ya fella | 00:05 |
| python47` | s* | 00:05 |
| LjL | python47`, please solve COVID | 00:06 |
| suaefar[m] | I think the only reliable data (to some extent) is the number of deceased people. I tried to predict the near future for some european countries, based on the current JHU data: https://github.com/suaefar/covid-19-deceased-prediction | 00:06 |
| ryouma | there is a newish ai trick which became famous at creating plausible faces. i wonder if it has been tried on protein foldin. | 00:06 |
| ryouma | adversarial something or other | 00:07 |
| LjL | suaefar[m], even on the deceased there are nitpicks... | 00:07 |
| LjL | but yeah, i guess it's more reliable than cases, and definitely more reliable than recoveries | 00:08 |
| python47` | LjL it's a prolog lisp intro .. | 00:08 |
| python47` | that said I wish I saw a lot more IT tech to the rescue | 00:08 |
| LjL | suaefar[m], France looks a bit wonky in your fit | 00:08 |
| python47` | god damn trendy computing industry is useless in real life scenario | 00:08 |
| LjL | i also wouldn't see much in the UK's fit downwards | 00:09 |
| HeXiLeD | that just remind me... what if we could type with a lisp accent | 00:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:05 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Angela Merkel in quarantine; Spain set to extend state of emergency: German chancellor in self-isolation after her doctor tests positive for coronavirus; reports say 360 more people have died in Italy; first two cases in Gaza. Follow the latest updates [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/T00P9L | 00:09 |
| suaefar[m] | <LjL "suaefar, France looks a bit wonk"> Its the JHU data that "jumps" | 00:09 |
| MrtnDk[m] | <python47` "LjL it's a prolog lisp intro .. "> Prolog lisp intro ... that sounds interesting. | 00:09 |
| LjL | python47`, well, i have an earthquake early warning bot, but even if i somehow turned it into a disease early warning bot, experience now tells us that nobody would give one single damn | 00:09 |
| python47` | MrtnDk[m]: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=luger+prolog+lisp+java&ia=web <= pdf can be found here | 00:11 |
| python47` | LjL: exactly, tech is secondary for crowds.. | 00:11 |
| LjL | python47`, i've only had a tiny Prolog booklet called "Ariadne's thread", it was all filled with anecdotes, and the final thing in the book was to make a program to solve a labyrinth | 00:12 |
| LjL | i didn't really learn any Prolog from it | 00:13 |
| LjL | but maybe i learned some curiosity | 00:13 |
| python47` | i love prolog foundations.. but I cant use it | 00:13 |
| python47` | I hope this book will change that | 00:13 |
| python47` | on that note | 00:13 |
| python47` | sleep tight | 00:13 |
| pepee | https://rep.repubblica.it/pwa/generale/2020/03/20/news/atalanta-valencia_a_san_siro_il_detonatore_del_contagio-251839747/ | 00:14 |
| HeXiLeD | Harvey Weinstein tested positive for coronavirus. do we agree in no loss? | 00:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Rand Paul tests positive, Trump activates National Guard in California, New York and Washington state — from WHO at 23:09: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/Oa0X4E | 00:16 |
| HeXiLeD | another politician | 00:16 |
| adham | 1.Grint with your teeth | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: your bot that links to an empty office document, or my system not opening it correctly? | 00:17 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, if you're referring to RSSBot, it's not my box, it's a standard bot on Matrix... the problem is not actually with it, but with the Matrix-to-IRC bridge: it changes some & in the URL into an & and it shouldn't | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in the [notice] | 00:18 |
| LjL | my bot* | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh matrix | 00:18 |
| LjL | my bot is Brainstorm and mostly posts its own RSS here | 00:18 |
| LjL | but i use RSSBot to take some of the load off because Brainstorm doesn't really do RSS in an optimal way for this place | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | poor Brits, poor USA | 00:20 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +313 cases (now 336811), +17 deaths (now 14646) 🔹 Austria: +16 cases (now 3580) 🔹 Canada: +10 cases (now 1436) 🔹 Kazakhstan: +1 cases (now 60) 🔹 Norway: +120 cases (now 2383) 🔹 Pakistan: +1 deaths (now 5) 🔹 Spain: +165 cases (now 28768), +16 deaths (now 1772) 🔹 California, US: +82 cases (now 1642), +1 deaths (now 30) [... want %more?] | 00:20 |
| ryouma | what is the latest on constitutional infringements or non-necessary powers in the us? last i heard the covid crisis was being used to push that agenda. did it pass? | 00:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:18 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Rand Paul tests positive, National Guard activated in California, New York and Washington state: President Donald Trump on Sunday announced he is deploying the National Guard to California, New York and Washington state - the current epicenters of the coronavirus outbreak in the U.S. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Oa0X4E | 00:22 |
| LjL | ryouma, Senate was passing some COVID-related law minutes ago... but i don't know what it was | 00:23 |
| Arsanerit | How is "person x tested positive" public information? Aren't medical records private? | 00:24 |
| ryouma | perhaps they revealed it themselves | 00:24 |
| bin_bash | theyre public servants, so yes | 00:24 |
| ryouma | or perhaps certain offices are exempt? | 00:24 |
| bin_bash | they usually reveal it themselves | 00:24 |
| ryouma | (i kind of doubt the latter) | 00:25 |
| jjuullii | w | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | UK THREE MONTHS quarantine??? | 00:26 |
| Arsanerit | is that enough? | 00:27 |
| dunnp | at least | 00:27 |
| AimHere | DocScrutinizer05, for old and at-risk people? Sure | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do they disaster management by throwing bones? | 00:27 |
| HeXiLeD | minimal imho | 00:27 |
| dunnp | if these people would stop going out that could be it | 00:27 |
| HeXiLeD | 30 days is not going to do much. 3 months is adequate | 00:27 |
| dunnp | but so many people ignore the quarantines | 00:27 |
| ryouma | soe are forced to by getting hungry etc. | 00:28 |
| ryouma | presumably | 00:28 |
| ryouma | (if they don't ahve deliveries of medicine and food and medical treatment available) | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's totally non-plausible. What is taking 3 months? | 00:28 |
| AimHere | DocScrutinizer05, the virus is what's taking 3 months | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 00:29 |
| AimHere | Ideally longer | 00:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:20 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: schools remain open but NSW premier urges parents to keep students at home – latest — from WHO at 23:20: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/ljuonw | 00:29 |
| ryouma | treatments and vaccines are gong to take longer; those whoa re not in the lockdown etc. are not immune | 00:29 |
| dunnp | people don't realize that they are shedding virus and they keep spreding it DocScrutinizer05 | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for what? conquering the world? that will take longer. Getting past an infection? takes max 3 weeks if you don't suffer complications | 00:30 |
| X-Scale | How did the worldwide pneumonic flu pandemic of 1918/1919 totally disappeared in the end ? What were the mechanisms at work that ended it for good after over 30 million deaths ? | 00:30 |
| AimHere | DocScrutinizer05, there are 70 million people to account for, nowhere near all of them have it | 00:30 |
| AimHere | They will continue to pass it on to each other for a while yet | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so? | 00:30 |
| AimHere | The virus will still be spreading in 3 week's time | 00:30 |
| AimHere | In fact, it will be far more prevalent in 3 weeks time than it is now | 00:31 |
| lowkey13[m] | anyone watching the fox coronavirus coverage? is this a chick or a duded? | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, otherwise we wouldn't have 2 weeks quarantine here, determined by our top virologists | 00:31 |
| AimHere | Two weeks for one person | 00:31 |
| dunnp | X-Scale: it is still around - H1N1 | 00:31 |
| AimHere | Or one household | 00:31 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, these are lockdowns, not quarantines. the terms are used loosely, but that doesn't help. "quarantine" is done when someone IS sick, or is at least SUSPECTED to be sick, and they have to stay away from others until we're sure they're no longer sick. the "3 months" this is not a quarantine, it's for elderly people (who are *very disproportionately* affected by this, and die much more) to be protected while this epidemic last... which is | 00:31 |
| LjL | definitely going to be months (at least). it won't go away in 14 days. | 00:31 |
| AimHere | Two weeks quarantine for a family is not the same as two weeks quarantine for 70 million peole | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | poor UK | 00:32 |
| HeXiLeD | Young German adults hold “corona parties” and cough toward older people. https://www.thestar.com/news/world/europe/2020/03/22/virus-rebels-from-france-to-florida-flout-lockdown-practices.html | 00:32 |
| LjL | ... | 00:32 |
| LjL | at least it's The Star so it has a chance of being bollocks | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they'll stop doing that, unless they wanna pay 25000€ penalty | 00:33 |
| HeXiLeD | doubt it | 00:33 |
| dunnp | DocScrutinizer05: should happen everywhere | 00:33 |
| HeXiLeD | the level of entitlement of the young generation is baffling | 00:34 |
| LjL | well, i admit i feel kind of entitled (but i'm not that young) | 00:34 |
| AimHere | HeXiLeD, well to be fair, the boomer generation were entitled fucks in the last few years | 00:34 |
| LjL | but not entitled to have a party where i cough against old people to make them sick | 00:34 |
| LjL | that's not entitlement, that's crime | 00:34 |
| HeXiLeD | AimHere: oh come on. | 00:34 |
| LjL | attempted manslaughter on my book | 00:34 |
| HeXiLeD | there will always be a generation conflict. i had my rebel times too, but nothing like we see today. | 00:35 |
| AimHere | HeXiLeD, certainly in the Anglosphere, they tended to form a voting bloc for the conservative right to deny younger people the cheap housing and education they themselves got | 00:35 |
| Scarecr0w | Intentionally coughing on someone's face? That's rude and they should be shot right on their soup coolers so they can never cough again. | 00:35 |
| ryouma | "soup coolers"? | 00:36 |
| HeXiLeD | every other generation, when growing up, got slapped or beaten and made sure to understand accountability. Todays gen? no knowledge of consequences and accountability | 00:36 |
| Scarecr0w | ryouma: Mouth | 00:36 |
| HeXiLeD | so they do whatever and blame others for everything | 00:37 |
| AimHere | HeXiLeD, there's been an increasing generational wealth disparity for a while now, and now we see that the millienials, too, are selfish entitled fucks | 00:37 |
| HeXiLeD | yup | 00:37 |
| dunnp | the millenials? | 00:37 |
| AimHere | Me being in the middle, I hope to not get killed in the intergenerational crossfire | 00:37 |
| HeXiLeD | this also depends on the culture of a country. poor countries less or no entitlement | 00:37 |
| AimHere | Yeah, that's why I restricted it to the Anglosphere - US and British politics was what I'm most thinking of | 00:38 |
| dunnp | "young people" are not millenials any more | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: thanks for clarifying. Poor UK. in three months they will be wiser, and have learned that COVID also kills young people | 00:38 |
| Timvde | Coughing in somebody's face is even respectless and stupid when there's not a pandemic... | 00:38 |
| HeXiLeD | i ve figure it out a long time ago. young dont give a shit about anything. old people all they do is shit :P . we've been there, we will go there. | 00:39 |
| ubLIX | GenX, AimHere? | 00:39 |
| HeXiLeD | Timvde: agreed | 00:39 |
| AimHere | ubLIX, yeah | 00:39 |
| ubLIX | hehe, the seemingly invisible generation | 00:39 |
| ryouma | there is an even more invisible one after baby boom but before genx, but it doesn't matter | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [22 Mar 2020 17:26:11] <DocScrutinizer> tomorrow's headlines today: "Boris Johnson killed half a million" [22 Mar 2020 17:26:33] <DocScrutinizer> "Trump beats him by factor 20" // SCNR | 00:40 |
| HeXiLeD | lol.. | 00:40 |
| HeXiLeD | stop blaming this on politicians | 00:41 |
| ryouma | special relationship | 00:41 |
| HeXiLeD | the ecosystem does not care | 00:41 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, well, their strategy has been a little jittery, but i think they are moving towards a more widespread lockdown now. there is a decent point that if you do it "too early", then when it becomes more crucial, people become tired and stop respecting it. but seeing what's happened in Italy, i don't think that's really how it goes | 00:41 |
| HeXiLeD | nature, once a while, cleans up the ecosystem for it's own good. we have no saying. it is done it, it will keep on doing it. | 00:41 |
| LjL | on the other hand, at first people don't respect it and underestimate it. then, later, after fines, threats of prison, etc, eventually the streets are actually sort of empty now | 00:41 |
| LjL | but meanwhile we've paid for it with many deaths and will keep doing so for many more weeks (at least) | 00:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:34 UTC: US coronavirus: Democrats block bill over lack of worker aid as Trump briefs nation – live: Rand Paul becomes first senator to test positive for Covid-19 Cuomo issues scathing indictment of government delays and missteps Bill de Blasio warns hospital supplies will run out in a week Follow global updates live See all [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xotN0T | 00:42 |
| dunnp | DocScrutinizer05: 10M in the US? I don't think so | 00:42 |
| dunnp | he projectionw as just over 2x UK | 00:42 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, if you believe in karma or whatever fine, but i think we have a fighting chance to lessen the impact of this and should use that chance | 00:43 |
| LjL | and i'll point towards both people and governments which i feel are failing to do so | 00:43 |
| LjL | the only problem is i don't have that many fingers | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lids: +1 :-) | 00:44 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: no i dont believe in karma. I just see how the planet organizes itself. But sure, we will have to try to survive how we can and mitigate the problem. | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: ^^^ | 00:44 |
| ryouma | what LjL said | 00:45 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: we would a lot of fingers. | 00:45 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, i'll just move it to Brainstorm and see how it fares | 00:45 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, ttj | 00:45 |
| lids | DocScrutinizer05: ? | 00:45 |
| LjL | lids, he meant me | 00:45 |
| lids | :) | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lids: sorry, was for LjL | 00:45 |
| HeXiLeD | the political sphere should be done by A.I only. Then decisions would be made on the base of what is needed and not on the base "on how we feel". | 00:46 |
| lids | no prob, stay safe! | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a comment on >>... not enough fingers<< et al | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HeXiLeD: AI has no maral | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | moral even | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might decide the best way to fight COVID is to execute everybody younger 30 | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever | 00:47 |
| ubLIX | someone want to lift the lid on HeXiLeD and check they are not in fact skynet real quick? | 00:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:41 UTC: IBM and White House to deploy supercomputer power to fight coronavirus outbreak: IBM is partnering with the White House to make a vast amount of supercomputing power available to help researchers stop the spreading coronavirus pandemic, according to the Trump administration. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1tsSTP | 00:48 |
| LjL | ubLIX, be careful though, if you wake up Spec he'll argue with him in unison | 00:48 |
| LjL | Brainstorm, well... that's somehow appropriate. | 00:48 |
| LjL | which is a first | 00:48 |
| pepee | hmm, isn't folding@home working on that already? | 00:49 |
| LjL | yeah | 00:49 |
| pepee | https://www.tomshardware.com/news/folding-at-home-worlds-top-supercomputers-coronavirus-covid-19 | 00:49 |
| LjL | maybe they can do things it can't do | 00:49 |
| pepee | they have some capacity left | 00:49 |
| pepee | right | 00:49 |
| HeXiLeD | DocScrutinizer05: what is that needed for? ie: if a town needs to get fresh water for it´s survival, the project to take water to the town should be decided by technical decisions. not personal feelings or rolling conversations with politics. The world evolves with engineers, scientists, techs, etc. Politicians bring nothing to the table other than bullshit to cash on other people's | 00:49 |
| HeXiLeD | achievements. | 00:50 |
| LjL | i feel i should have a plan with my family on how to act if one of us gets sick. but i also feel i basically couldn't approach them about that without everyone getting mad | 00:50 |
| HeXiLeD | A.I to decide politics. not people. | 00:50 |
| ubLIX | HeXiLeD: didn't you just finish saying "stop blaming the politicians"? | 00:50 |
| HeXiLeD | ubLIX: yah. i am not. we dont need them. we should get rid of them | 00:50 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +508 cases (now 337319), +2 deaths (now 14648) 🔸 US: +224 cases (now 32580), +1 deaths (now 415) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Austria: +16 cases (now 3580) 🔹 Brazil: +47 cases (now 1593) 🔹 Canada: +44 cases (now 1470), +1 deaths (now 21) 🔹 Alberta, Canada: +33 cases (now 259) [... want %more?] | 00:51 |
| ryouma | %data nepal | 00:51 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Nepal, there are 2 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 22, 14:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Nepal for time series data. | 00:51 |
| ubLIX | why don't you try working as one for 5 years before dismissing them out of hand? | 00:51 |
| LjL | i think that line of reasoning is flawed, because an AI's *goals*, as well as possibly other things, make all the difference, and those are necessarily set by humans | 00:51 |
| HeXiLeD | ubLIX: they will not change anything for better. they only delay progress. | 00:51 |
| ryouma | also its input data | 00:51 |
| LjL | ryouma, well let's even assume it has the entire universe as its input (i.e. all-knowing). the moral question is still unanswered. | 00:52 |
| HeXiLeD | ubLIX: let me put it this way. many times a scientist comes up with something to help the world. Then a politicians pops up out of nothing to regulate it and why this or that can or cannot have it. then the lobbies come into place... etc etc. | 00:53 |
| ryouma | least harm | 00:53 |
| LjL | i think it was an apt example... if it turns out, hypothetically, that it's people between 20 and 30 who are being the drivers of this infection because they defy lockdowns, then what if the AI decides they should all be killed? which moral imperative does it have to contain to avoid that? does it even *have* to avoid it, or we somehow let it have that (scary) degree of freedom? | 00:53 |
| HeXiLeD | out. we dont need them. A.I for decisions | 00:53 |
| LjL | you're not solving a problem HeXiLeD, you're just moving politicians to a different place, now they're the ones setting the AI's priorities and goals. | 00:53 |
| ubLIX | HeXiLeD: i think when you think of politics, you might rather have in mind antipolitical behaviour. politics is what happens when things go well; the negatives you're talking about are what happens when politics fails | 00:53 |
| HeXiLeD | i rather live under the ideas of a machine which will be 1 or 0 than an idiot that makes decisions on the base on how he/she feels about today | 00:54 |
| LjL | someone has to be doing that, AI is just... intelligence. even if artificial, it's subject to similar conundrums as human intelligence when it comes to "what's an acceptable compromise" | 00:54 |
| ryouma | kind of an off topic discussion | 00:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:46 UTC: Coronavirus updates: Spain death toll passes 1,700, India begins curfew: The number of people who have tested positive for the coronavirus, or COVID-19, has crossed 300,000 as the disease continues to spread around the world. — from WHO at 23:46: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/F8GJpP | 00:54 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, well that's the key in what you're saying, i fear: you'd rather live with that IDEA, without realizing the reality would be different, and still made ultimately of human politicians | 00:54 |
| HeXiLeD | ubLIX: you kinda sound like a politician with rhetorics :P | 00:55 |
| LjL | are good rhetorics a frowned upon thing now? | 00:55 |
| HeXiLeD | all them. | 00:55 |
| HeXiLeD | tech decisions should not involve feelings | 00:55 |
| LjL | i think if rational discourse (which is part of rhetoric) is something you frown upon, then we are done here. | 00:55 |
| LjL | it's not about feelings, and it's also not about "tech decisions" when an AI may realize that the best way to save humanity is to kill everyone between 20 and 30. | 00:56 |
| LjL | you are not addressing that hypothetical. is it because you don't know where to start? | 00:56 |
| LjL | because i know i don't | 00:56 |
| HeXiLeD | you and I talking make no changes to others. so what i am saying does not apply to us. I am talking about the political sphere | 00:56 |
| dunnp | itt: AI can save the world; AI: I'm sorry, did you say 'play Jimmy Eat World?' | 00:56 |
| LjL | :) | 00:56 |
| stavrakis | If we're going to kill people why not just kill the vulnerable? | 00:57 |
| ubLIX | HeXiLeD: and how do we get there (your utopia) from here? current AI decision algorithms can exhibit the biases of their programmers/developers; and can come up with new and harmful previously unimagined biases; who gets to vets the biases? | 00:57 |
| HeXiLeD | stavrakis: that is what a machine would do. makes sense | 00:57 |
| LjL | stavrakis, well, my entire point is that we shouldn't kill people, and hence, we cannot just have an AI that may decide to do something like that just because it's "algorithmically best", and hence, we do still require people to decide ultimately a set of rules on what's acceptable. | 00:57 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, so are you advocating for killing the vulnerable? | 00:58 |
| stavrakis | True, the issue is finding the balance. | 00:58 |
| Timvde | ubLIX: of course, use a neural net. Just cause a million more pandemics to gather data and we're good to go! | 00:58 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: are you putting words on my mouth? :P ;) i never said that. | 00:58 |
| dunnp | Timvde has it | 00:58 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, you said it's what a machine would do, and you are also advocating using a machine for political decisions instead of politicians. | 00:58 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, please explain why i should not reach that conclusion from your concepts | 00:59 |
| HeXiLeD | ubLIX: not an uptopia and you are correct that bias can happen due to the programmers. Then again A.I at a certain point does not need humans to program itself. Check out the movie automata (as an example) | 00:59 |
| ubLIX | is that the one with Banderas? | 00:59 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: your conclusion is normal. does not mean i agree with the end. means that i would be subjected to it like everyone else. | 00:59 |
| Timvde | HeXiLeD: "AI does not need humans to program itself" basically comes down to a neural net. So, are you preparing the million other pandemics yet? | 01:00 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: i honestly believe that if AI ever takes control, in order to saves us, it will also save us from ourselves | 01:00 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, so you're *avoiding* to directly be advocating for killing the vulnerable, *by* making a machine "inevitably" (because it's what a machine would do) do it instead? | 01:00 |
| ryouma | where did what stavrakis and HeXiLeD saidf just now come from? what is the "logic" behind it? | 01:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:57 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Rand Paul tests positive, National Guard activated in California, New York and Washington state: President Donald Trump on Sunday announced he is deploying the National Guard to California, New York and Washington state - the current epicenters of the coronavirus outbreak in the U.S. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Oa0X4E | 01:01 |
| ryouma | 16:57 <HeXiLeD> stavrakis: that is what a machine would do. makes sense | 01:01 |
| ryouma | 16:57 <stavrakis> If we're going to kill people why not just kill the vulnerable? | 01:01 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: the machine will decide. probably in a humane way. i would have no impact of changing the course of things. | 01:01 |
| ryouma | where di that come from? | 01:01 |
| dunnp | isn't this the background to Terminator? | 01:01 |
| HeXiLeD | lol dunnp youi mean Carl? | 01:01 |
| dunnp | Carl? | 01:01 |
| stavrakis | ryouma, if that happened then it would save money on hospitals, government measures, etc. | 01:01 |
| Timvde | "Probably in a humane way", isn't that exactly what you want to eliminate? The human part? | 01:02 |
| HeXiLeD | dunnp: if you seen the last terminator | 01:02 |
| dunnp | ah | 01:02 |
| HeXiLeD | Timvde: well we are heading there. For example. dont we have euthanasia? | 01:02 |
| ryouma | eugenicists had similar ideas | 01:02 |
| Timvde | Strictly regulated, yes. Otherwise, it's murder ;) | 01:03 |
| Biep[m] | <python47` "any simple hack to get an idea o"> If cocoa butter melts on your forehead you have fever. | 01:03 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, how do you know it would "probably" be humane? would that be programmed in? | 01:03 |
| HeXiLeD | but i also lean towards genetic improvement and that would help us not being that vulnerable in many ways | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunnp: ((tereminator)) prolly, that's why somebody just suggested to check if HeXiLeDis actually skynet | 01:03 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: i see where you are trying to get me to go ;). Smart. | 01:03 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, also, earlier you said killing the vulnerable sounded like "what a machine would do". now, instead, you think it would "probably" be humane? what changed your mind? | 01:03 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, is it the same place where you already are, but won't state it because you know it wouldn't be considered acceptable? | 01:04 |
| Timvde | LjL: `if (!solution.isHumane()) { break; }` | 01:04 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: at some point we humans would/will not be capable to comprehend A.I. | 01:04 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: i dont know. but we are also deviating from my main point. | 01:04 |
| LjL | %8ball should I ban HeXiLeD for the channel's good, since we're doing things by machine proxy and that clears our moral conscience? | 01:05 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Very doubtful | 01:05 |
| LjL | fair enough then | 01:05 |
| HeXiLeD | which is to get rid of politicians and have A.I take their jobs | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah now we're reaching a point. You want to get rid of responsibility, by "I don't understand this anymore, I'm not that smart like that AI" | 01:05 |
| ryouma | we have seen social darwinism. we have seen eugenics. we have seen sentiments similar to each. yet the virus has no intention or goal other than, if you prefer to put it as a goal, to reproduce. the vulnerable groups are not less human, less valid, or less deserving. and the non-vulnerable groups are not completely non-vulnerable. what we are seeing here is injection of pre-existing political sentiments into a | 01:05 |
| ryouma | discussion of an epidemic. | 01:05 |
| Timvde | (Wait, that would probably select an inhumane solution by breaking out of a loop. Oops, I wrote a bug and killed humanity) | 01:05 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, that's also what i thought, although it seemed very weird. | 01:05 |
| HeXiLeD | DocScrutinizer05: at some one we will not be able to understand it. it will be a consequence. but we (probably) trust it. | 01:05 |
| HeXiLeD | *point | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +210 cases (now 337529), +1 deaths (now 14649) 🔸 US: +203 cases (now 32783), +1 deaths (now 416) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Austria: +16 cases (now 3580) 🔹 Bermuda: +4 cases (now 6) 🔹 Brazil: +47 cases (now 1593) 🔹 Canada: +44 cases (now 1470), +1 deaths (now 21) 🔹 Alberta, Canada: +33 cases (now 259) [... want %more?] | 01:06 |
| ryouma | the use of the pandemic to push agendas is hindering stopping the pandemic. especially those agendas that include the culling of those considered by the agenda pushers to be burdens to society or less human. | 01:06 |
| ryouma | these are agendas we might fight. | 01:07 |
| Biep[m] | AIs are apt to mistake economics for ethics. We still know it is wrong to cut up a healthy person to save five others with her organs - but as the trolley problem shows, when things get more murky we already give up thinking ethically and go for the easier economic thinking. In military decisions it is common: giving up some lives to save more. AIs will be even worse in that respect, not having the ethical sense to | 01:07 |
| Biep[m] | begin with. | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you trust an AI you know you can't understand, you must be very naive | 01:07 |
| HeXiLeD | humans also deal with these "hard decisions" has you asked me. Italian doctors had to make these decisions. who lives, who gets treated and why. | 01:07 |
| HeXiLeD | so not much different | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's somewhere between Terminator and Matrix | 01:07 |
| HeXiLeD | DocScrutinizer05: i am not. A.I can possible eradicate us. i side with Elon musk on A.I. but i cant stand politicians and lawyers | 01:08 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, at least they get to live with the consequences of their choice. instead, you sound like you're looking for a shortcut to have the vulnerable disposed of, without you feeling responsible. | 01:08 |
| LjL | and if that's me putting words in your mouth, it's only because your mouth's looking the exact right shape for it. | 01:08 |
| ryouma | ethical precepts can be put into ai so i think that is not the root problem; the root problem is the injection of agendas into what is an epidemiology problem | 01:08 |
| dunnp | minimal impact would be to heavily enforce a lockdown I'd think | 01:08 |
| LjL | i'm almost a phonetician, you know. | 01:08 |
| ryouma | (i am not proposing ai; pointing out that there is a larger issue) | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HeXiLeD: then you rather hand the ultimate descission (aka "gun") to an AI instead of "let ME do that, I could do better than those nitwits!" ? DUH! | 01:09 |
| dunnp | skynet could enforce it with its drone things | 01:09 |
| ubLIX | ryouma heroically trying to bring us back to covid | 01:09 |
| ryouma | or at least sanity | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems it's proven, you wanna get rid of responsibility | 01:09 |
| Biep[m] | Modern AIs are not algorithmic - they are trained neural nets. No "laws of robotics" to be injected there. And it has already been shown that trained neural nets tend to reinforce discriminatory tendencies present in human populations. | 01:10 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: the responsibility of making sure that human race continues and it's dna remains in good condition is more important than individual needs . @ DocScrutinizer05. | 01:10 |
| ryouma | extermination events are a serious risk. we need to know about them so they do not occur. | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | says who? | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your AI may disagree ;-P | 01:10 |
| HeXiLeD | says survival. | 01:10 |
| ryouma | reoccur* | 01:10 |
| dunnp | Biep[m]: there are no 'AIs' as entities and only a subset of modern 'AI' is deep learning | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your AI may come to the conclusion that human race is detrimental to AI's well being | 01:11 |
| ryouma | you can choose what to train them on | 01:11 |
| HeXiLeD | DocScrutinizer05: valid point. A.I may not agree. again. i am just advocating for politician replacement. | 01:11 |
| ryouma | and waht dunnp said | 01:11 |
| Biep[m] | The notion of an entity is fluid here. I'd say there are. | 01:11 |
| HeXiLeD | DocScrutinizer05: at our pace, i am sure A.I would see it like that if we do not change. | 01:11 |
| dunnp | but there aren't | 01:11 |
| Biep[m] | But sleep is beckoning.. | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I consider this a rather tangetial topic and am out for a while | 01:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:05 UTC: Merkel in quarantine; Spain set to extend state of emergency – as it happened: German chancellor in self-isolation after her doctor tests positive for coronavirus; reports say 360 more people have died in Italy; first two cases in Gaza. This blog is now closed. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/T00P9L | 01:13 |
| ryouma | i think ai is a tangential topic. i don't think these eugenics type sentiments are tangential, unfortunately. | 01:14 |
| ryouma | i.e. they do pop up and they do need challenging just as much as or more than the nonsense conspiricy theories | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I give you that, the odds of any AI doing worse than trump are near non-existent, still I'd prefer a Trump over an AI controlling the red button on the baseball. well, probably, that notion may change in a week | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I say that as a programmer developing stuff like AI | 01:15 |
| HeXiLeD | again, eugenics is not my point. my point is tech solution not being based by feelings. For example, NY Cuomo comes to say it is still ok to go to the park with your kids because he also done it and liked it alot. No it is not ok! Covid19 does not care if we like parks or not. So...a machine would probably say. If you come out, and risk contaminating 10 people. You will be taken down to preserve | 01:16 |
| HeXiLeD | the greater good and the majority | 01:16 |
| HeXiLeD | i have no problems with is. | 01:17 |
| HeXiLeD | he can go dream about kids and walks in park if he wants but not advocating it to the country | 01:17 |
| HeXiLeD | nature, does not care about feelings | 01:17 |
| ryouma | is there a source for cuomo making the decision on the basis of what he likes rather than advice about transmissibility while walking in parks? i missed teh statement. | 01:18 |
| Timvde | HeXiLeD: the problem is that you assume that there's a magic AI that could make all the right decisions | 01:18 |
| Timvde | We could not program it if we wanted to | 01:18 |
| HeXiLeD | hold on... i made a mistake on the name. it was the other guy but cume touche the topic | 01:18 |
| ryouma | the earlier statements were quite eugenics-like | 01:18 |
| HeXiLeD | ryouma: the convo went that way. not my intention. someone was trying to prove another point. | 01:19 |
| LjL | ryouma, i do think i saw a thing or two on roughly that sort of line, yeah. | 01:19 |
| Timvde | Problem 1: the "right" decision is sometimes honestly subjective | 01:19 |
| ryouma | viz.: 16:57 <stavrakis> If we're going to kill people why not just kill the vulnerable? and 16:57 <HeXiLeD> stavrakis: that is what a machine would do. makes sense | 01:19 |
| LjL | i think i just burned my eyes with UV | 01:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:12 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Rand Paul tests positive, National Guard activated in California, New York and Washington state: President Donald Trump on Sunday announced he is deploying the National Guard to California, New York and Washington state - the current epicenters of the coronavirus outbreak in the U.S. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Oa0X4E | 01:20 |
| ryouma | combined with HeXiLeD pushing for ai | 01:20 |
| LjL | ryouma, oh hey don't put words in his mouth! | 01:20 |
| LjL | he didn't say A AND B is true | 01:20 |
| stavrakis | Economically speaking it makes sense. I do not support it though. | 01:20 |
| LjL | he only said A is true, and B is true | 01:20 |
| HeXiLeD | ryouma: to replace politicians. i never said anything about eugenics. | 01:20 |
| Timvde | Problem 2: we'd either have to program it (in which case we need to invent the rules, and is it still a neutral machine then?), or train a neural net (as I said before: go and create a million more pandemics first) | 01:20 |
| HeXiLeD | what LjL said :) | 01:20 |
| HeXiLeD | lol LjL | 01:20 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 Washington, US: +203 cases (now 1996), +1 deaths (now 95) 🔸 New York, US: +4083 cases (now 15793), +57 deaths (now 117) 🔸 New Jersey, US: +587 cases (now 1914), +4 deaths (now 20) 🔸 Michigan, US: +249 cases (now 1037), +4 deaths (now 9) 🔸 Louisiana, US: +252 cases (now 837), +4 deaths (now 20) 🔸 Illinois, US: +296 cases (now 1049), +3 deaths (now 9) [... want %more?] | 01:21 |
| HeXiLeD | let try to find the video | 01:21 |
| ryouma | LjL: sorry, i don't mean to put words nin anybody's mouth. can you elaborate on the logic that i missed and you got? | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's none | 01:21 |
| HeXiLeD | mayor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9dq2L4UDwk this was live. | 01:21 |
| LjL | ryouma, he's expounding ideas that would be construed as eugenic and quite possibly worse IF they were expounded as their conclusion. instead, he's just expounding the components. | 01:21 |
| Timvde | ryouma: that was /s I think ;) | 01:21 |
| HeXiLeD | DocScrutinizer05: there is. is okay with walks in the park. A.I would say no. | 01:22 |
| Timvde | HeXiLeD: would it? | 01:22 |
| Timvde | How do you know? | 01:22 |
| LjL | ryouma, this way, and by means of using "AI" as a magical box that makes decisions for him and somehow without a levy on his moral responsibility, he can indirectly push for ideas that most people would, hopefully, still find unacceptable | 01:22 |
| ryouma | which was /s? i am still seeing eugenics-like sentiments there, and in previous days' discussions | 01:22 |
| Timvde | Because you think so? | 01:22 |
| ryouma | from the same user | 01:22 |
| HeXiLeD | Timvde: i have made my statement about above | 01:22 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: he can indirectly push for ideas that most people would ? no. it would not be me. | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could we declare that off-topic now? | 01:23 |
| LjL | now THAT's twisting my statement | 01:23 |
| LjL | no | 01:23 |
| Timvde | HeXiLeD: must've missed it | 01:23 |
| LjL | i will declare HeXiLeD offtopic | 01:23 |
| ryouma | LjL: yes, it seems like that to me. i can't prove that, however. all i can do is quote stavrakis and HeXiLeD here, (or go back to previous discussions int his channel in which the latter expressed similar sentiments) | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ta! | 01:23 |
| LjL | ryouma, to help you and us all, i've also done https://dpaste.org/Yk5U | 01:24 |
| LjL | that hopefully clarifies my rationale | 01:24 |
| LjL | if it doesn't, oh well | 01:24 |
| ryouma | LjL: access denied | 01:24 |
| LjL | uh | 01:24 |
| LjL | is there SOME pastebin that NO one's networks deny access to? | 01:24 |
| LjL | because no matter which pastebin i use, someone seems unable to access it | 01:25 |
| glytchbinary | gist.github.com | 01:25 |
| LjL | definitely not posting an irc snippet on there | 01:25 |
| ryouma | maybe nc termbin.com 9999 | 01:25 |
| Timvde | LjL: I could host one if you link me to an open source one you like | 01:25 |
| ryouma | or sprunge | 01:25 |
| ubLIX | it's a little unfair, now he's quieted, but i recommend to HeXiLeD for his isolation reading list, John Rawl's A Theory of Justice | 01:25 |
| Timvde | But I'm not really willing to moderate it, so if I see anyone ever post something illegal, I'll just take the whole thing down | 01:26 |
| Timvde | So actually, I retract the offer, sorry | 01:27 |
| LjL | yeah, been there | 01:27 |
| LjL | anyway there's nothing in that post that your logs don't already contain | 01:28 |
| LjL | just a matter of selection | 01:28 |
| LjL | <HeXiLeD> you are in italy. read up on fascism. | 01:28 |
| LjL | that's exactly the word i wanted to avoid | 01:28 |
| LjL | because it *seemed* sort of too far to actually call anyone a fascist | 01:28 |
| LjL | but if you're implying i may be one, then okay, i was implying the same of you | 01:29 |
| LjL | quiet is permanent, bye | 01:29 |
| ubLIX | debian paste, maybe, LjL. i mean, that would most likely be an abuse of their terms (i haven't read them) but it's probably widely accessible | 01:29 |
| stavrakis | Here comes Godwin's law... | 01:30 |
| ryouma | i don't think godwin meant to stop use of such terms where they do apply, merely to make a wry observation on usenet and point out that terms get used where they do not apply. in fact, he recently stated that the term he originally spoke of is ok to use for a particular group. | 01:31 |
| ryouma | (just as a note) | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:25 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: One in three Americans must stay home as Germany bans meetings of more than two — from WHO at 00:25: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/bEuiim | 01:32 |
| LjL | the "law" has definitely a history of being misinterpreted | 01:32 |
| LjL | oh dear Guardian | 01:32 |
| LjL | their headlines are so subtle... | 01:33 |
| ryouma | that "as" gets confusing | 01:34 |
| ryouma | it makes you think there is smoe connection. or at least it makes my addled brain think so. | 01:34 |
| ryouma | momentarily) | 01:34 |
| LjL | also it's too bad HeXiLeD had some valuable contributions to make. but i don't feel i can accept certain ideologies here... others before have assumed this was an "apolitical" channel. it's not. i feel politics is a big issue in this epidemic, and i also feel that i don't want this channel to be a completely "neutral" place. discuss politics in reasonable terms, fine. namecall or belittle politicians just for the heck of it, OR express ideas that are | 01:35 |
| LjL | directly against what hopefully most of us after WW2 stand for, that's not okay. | 01:35 |
| ryouma | "australia nationalizes airlines as archaeologists discover new human ancestor in tanzania" | 01:35 |
| Peetz0r | Hey, one question. Shoudl I join Rosetta via BOINC, or Folding@home? | 01:38 |
| Peetz0r | Or are both perfectly fine options? | 01:38 |
| LjL | uhm | 01:40 |
| LjL | i didn't know Rosetta was also working on this | 01:40 |
| LjL | as hearsay, apparently a few computers on Folding@Home are getting no work units | 01:41 |
| LjL | perhaps because their computers aren't good enough, or perhaps because "too" many people are now contributing | 01:41 |
| LjL | so i don't know, maybe Rosetta is more neglected | 01:41 |
| ryouma | not to beat a dead horse. i just forgot tihs one when i quoted is all. 17:01 <stavrakis> ryouma, if that happened then it would save money on hospitals, government measures, etc. | 01:41 |
| LjL | but i really don't know about either | 01:41 |
| LjL | ryouma, well let me ban just one at a time | 01:41 |
| LjL | it was a difficult enough decision | 01:41 |
| LjL | may not have looked like it | 01:41 |
| LjL | but seriously, i first asked my bot whether i should | 01:42 |
| LjL | i only do that with hard decisions ;) | 01:42 |
| ryouma | not recommending any decisions nor expressing an opinion on ai | 01:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 00:41 UTC: /u/slakmehl: In the areas of Italy most heavily affected by the virus, doctors say they have concluded that loss of taste and smell is an indication that a person who otherwise seems healthy is in fact carrying the virus and may be spreading it to others. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/oDyBsJ | 01:45 |
| ryouma | i have anosmia and dysgeusia. unfortunately for that heuristic, i have had them for many years. | 01:45 |
| Peetz0r | I think I'll pick BOINC because it seems more open | 01:46 |
| AimHere | Either that or you're patient zero | 01:46 |
| ryouma | from mmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany years ago! | 01:46 |
| Peetz0r | for one, it's in the fedora repos so it's easier to install :) | 01:46 |
| AimHere | Typhoid Ryouma | 01:46 |
| ryouma | well, i did eat a lot of bats... /j | 01:46 |
| ubLIX | carrying a virus, anyway; that common colds knock out the sense of smell is.. common enough for this to be not specific | 01:47 |
| ryouma | ah, for that reason | 01:47 |
| ubLIX | add it to the list of highly suggestive symptoms | 01:47 |
| AimHere | Usually colds and flu knock out the smell by nasal congestion | 01:47 |
| dunnp | wow ryouma you have all the things | 01:47 |
| AimHere | It's a consequence of other obvious symptoms | 01:47 |
| ubLIX | AimHere: true, but can do neurologically too | 01:47 |
| AimHere | The idea is that anosmia is a possible symptom in the otherwise asymptomatic | 01:47 |
| ryouma | wish we could get test kits sent everywhere | 01:48 |
| LjL | ubLIX, it's not the first time this is brought up, though | 01:49 |
| dTal | I just noticed the smell thing too | 01:51 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +567 cases (now 338104), +7 deaths (now 14656), +368 recoveries (now 99126) 🔸 US: +563 cases (now 33346) 🔸 Hubei, China: +9 deaths (now 3153), +446 recoveries (now 59879) 🔸 China: +12 cases (now 81409), +9 deaths (now 3274), +368 recoveries (now 72808) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Austria: +16 cases (now 3580) [... want %more?] | 01:51 |
| stavrakis | At this point I believe the lockdown is a better idea than trying to diagnose asymptomatic carriers. | 01:51 |
| dTal | is it worth telling everyone to self isolate if they have no sense of smell> | 01:51 |
| dTal | ? | 01:51 |
| LjL | stavrakis, why not both? | 01:51 |
| stavrakis | LjL, that could be done, true. | 01:52 |
| LjL | dTal, i don't know if it's worth telling *anyone* with few symptoms to self-isolate since they won't do it ;( | 01:52 |
| yuriwho | dTal we should have clearer info on that soon | 01:52 |
| LjL | stavrakis, well i don't think it's being proposed as an alternative. we have a lockdown *and* we have mandatory quarantine for patients and contacts. | 01:52 |
| ubLIX | i was just making an academic point, i didn't mean to dismiss; the message should be it is wise to pay attention to this covid-relevant symptom of disease | 01:53 |
| stavrakis | Machine learning is making progress identifying cancer, so yeah, data like this could be used to feed ML diagnosis solutions. | 01:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 00:49 UTC: Coronavirus to be tracked using its genetic code: Scientists are to track the spread of the coronavirus in the UK by using clues in its genetic code. — from WHO at 00:49: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/Eu4Guu | 01:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:01 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Rand Paul tests positive, National Guard activated in California, New York and Washington state: President Donald Trump on Sunday announced he is deploying the National Guard to California, New York and Washington state - the current epicenters of the coronavirus outbreak in the U.S. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Oa0X4E | 02:03 |
| dividediff[m] | gf is having to clear her throat a lot | 02:14 |
| yuriwho | dTal: I can only find newspaper stories, no medical lit or preprints yet mentioning this as a symptom | 02:14 |
| dividediff[m] | Is clearing throat a lot a sign of early corona? haven't had success searching of it | 02:17 |
| dividediff[m] | for** i | 02:17 |
| dividediff[m] | it** | 02:17 |
| yuriwho | is she producing phlegm? If so it's not a symptom | 02:18 |
| dividediff[m] | no phlegm | 02:18 |
| dunnp | yuriwho: seen a lot of on twitter too | 02:19 |
| dTal | yuriwho: this is the closest to a primary source I can find https://www.entuk.org/loss-sense-smell-marker-covid-19-infection | 02:19 |
| dunnp | https://twitter.com/ENT_UK/status/1241063677186449408 | 02:19 |
| dunnp | yep same thing | 02:19 |
| dividediff[m] | thanks | 02:20 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +217 cases (now 338321), +5 deaths (now 14661), +2 recoveries (now 99128) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Austria: +16 cases (now 3580) 🔹 Bermuda: +4 cases (now 6) 🔹 Brazil: +47 cases (now 1593) 🔹 Canada: +44 cases (now 1470), +1 deaths (now 21) 🔹 Alberta, Canada: +33 cases (now 259) [... want %more?] | 02:21 |
| yuriwho | I expect we will have a more definitive answer this coming week | 02:21 |
| ryouma | n.b. somebody named me int he past couple of days (i.e. sent me a mesasge in this channel) while i was asleep but i missed it whoever it was | 02:22 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: i did recently | 02:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:17 UTC: Rand Paul tests positive for coronavirus, National Guard activated in California, New York and Washington state: President Donald Trump on Sunday announced he is deploying the National Guard to California, New York and Washington state - the current epicenters of the coronavirus outbreak in the U.S. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Oa0X4E | 02:23 |
| dividediff[m] | I said earlier; "check out medical supplier soap, chemi-pharm" | 02:23 |
| dividediff[m] | I think someone mentioned that it's scent free | 02:23 |
| LjL | okay so i have an honest question, did anyone earlier feel like i was out of line and/or an idiot and/or misunderstanding things earlier on when i banned HeXiLeD? | 02:24 |
| LjL | not banning anyone for honest answers! | 02:24 |
| ryouma | dividediff[m]: i did miss that. and it sounds really useful. i need to rotate so as not to get too sensitive to any one product. were you suggesting re laundry or hands? | 02:25 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: im not sure what the original commenter was suggesting it for, but couldn't hand soap work for laundry? | 02:26 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], it was a ban (quiet, actually) on IRC, not on Matrix | 02:26 |
| dividediff[m] | No loss of smell for either of us, based on smelling garlic | 02:26 |
| ryouma | dividediff[m]: thank you. i wil look it up for all puyrposes. | 02:26 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: ic, someone was a mod at one point and banned someone on matrix? | 02:27 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], it would be reflected by the IRC bridge. the reverse would also happen, but in the case of a simple quiet, you just don't see anything: not the quiet, but then also no longer the person speaking | 02:28 |
| LjL | which i guess is not very transparent, but bridges come with these glitches | 02:28 |
| LjL | i am not entirely sure what happens with more complex interactions really | 02:28 |
| LjL | if i ban an actual IRC user via Matrix, or vice versa | 02:28 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: good to know! Did this incident with HeXiLeD happen recently? I'm scrolling up | 02:29 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], yes but there was a fair amount of chat since | 02:29 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: yea i haven't found anything yet. ROughly, what happened? | 02:30 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], go to the line where the word "fascism" if used, that's where it ended... i'm not rehashing it now | 02:31 |
| LjL | meanwhile, headline from other place: "Dr. Fauci Reports That Alcohol May Help People Survive Coronavirus Briefing" | 02:31 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: kk | 02:31 |
| dunnp | LjL: don't stress it | 02:32 |
| LjL | okay | 02:33 |
| Zalyssa | ljl, you were entirely in line with banning hexiled | 02:33 |
| Zalyssa | I fully support that | 02:34 |
| Zalyssa | 84% of what I see them saying is bollocks | 02:34 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: perma ban? | 02:35 |
| LjL | well i didn't want this to be a further lynchmob now, i was just having some second thoughts and wondering if anyone did find it not okay | 02:35 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], no, well, yes, i said it would be, but i already removed it now | 02:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:28 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus map of the US: latest cases state by state — from WHO at 01:28: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/wVJfAk | 02:36 |
| dividediff[m] | okay, sorry you had to go thru whatever happened! | 02:36 |
| LjL | well it was my choice to make the channel, i have to deal with what i do, it's okay | 02:37 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: you're the server master/admin/owner? (i'm not sure what the term is) How long does the data stay here before it's deleted? | 02:37 |
| LjL | i only manage the room, and there are multiple servers. the data stays on the Matrix servers "forever", as far as i am aware | 02:39 |
| ubLIX | stay where? :) | 02:39 |
| LjL | it may also stay in everyone's hard drives here, as many (most?) IRC users are likely logging | 02:39 |
| LjL | i know i am | 02:39 |
| dividediff[m] | ty | 02:40 |
| ryouma | i'm logging, but it has gaps for bug reasons or if i am not logged in (again, thank you dividediff[m]!) | 02:40 |
| ryouma | (bug in this case, a silent gap) | 02:40 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: np! let me know if that soap works out for you | 02:41 |
| ryouma | can't seem to find a supplier yet to find out if i can get it in bulk. i'd also want to know if it disperses lipid capsules (i would guess so but do not have any chemistry bg). but it looks promising. | 02:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:39 UTC: /u/mmm_toasty: Lockdowns not enough to defeat coronavirus: WHO's Ryan - Reuters — from WHO at 01:39: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/aCp1xJ | 02:43 |
| dividediff[m] | If anyone bumps into something related to clearing throat frequent and corona, let me know | 02:43 |
| ryouma | is clearing throat postnasal drip usually? | 02:44 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: postnasal drip? | 02:44 |
| dividediff[m] | The most common symptom is fever, according to the researchers at Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University. They observed fevers in 99 percent of the patients in their study. | 02:45 |
| ryouma | i aws asking if it could be sinus drainage or similar type of things, meaning upper respiratory rather than clearing mucus from lungs | 02:45 |
| dividediff[m] | Other common symptoms include fatigue and a dry cough, which appeared in more than half of the patients studied. About a third also experienced muscle pain and difficulty breathing, though it took about five days (on average) for a patient to have difficulty breathing after first showing symptoms. | 02:45 |
| ryouma | wow 99. much higher than wikipedia used to say. | 02:45 |
| ryouma | that makes me feel better about my mother with a cough but no fever | 02:46 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: assuming we can trust zhongnan hospital | 02:46 |
| ryouma | yeah | 02:46 |
| dividediff[m] | gf thinks her throat clearing is unrelated to sinus but doesn't know | 02:47 |
| dividediff[m] | "headache or sore throat – were seen in only a small number of cases." | 02:48 |
| dividediff[m] | Huh so a dry cough doesn't lead to sore throat? | 02:48 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: the source, https://www.sciencealert.com/latest-research-on-covid-19-reveals-the-pattern-of-symptoms-to-watch-for | 02:49 |
| dividediff[m] | is from feb 14, so wiki could be bettr | 02:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:45 UTC: /u/slakmehl: CBC Olympics su Twitter: "BREAKING | The Canadian Olympic and Paralympic Committees will NOT send Canadian athletes to compete at #Tokyo2020 due to COVID-19 concerns https://t.co/6jwfqr5ZLE… https://t.co/GEicTMYGue" [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Xe7RXJ | 02:49 |
| azbycx | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-symptoms-smell-taste.html | 02:50 |
| dared | https://delphi.cmu.edu/nowcast/ | 02:51 |
| dividediff[m] | contagious for between one and 14 days; one group of Chinese scientists recently suggested that people could be contagious for up to 24 days. | 02:52 |
| dividediff[m] | identified the coronavirus in stool samples from patients with diarrhoea and nausea | 02:55 |
| dared | the situation is critical, the problem is that the media are dominated by the government, and we don't know the truth about this contagion | 02:55 |
| dividediff[m] | dared: bypass media and look straight at resaerch papers? | 02:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:49 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Tokyo Games not feasible in July says World Athletics chief Coe - Reuters — from WHO at 01:49: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/y3GJfO | 02:56 |
| dared | R0 can be more then 3 in real | 02:56 |
| LjL | we don't know the truth mainly because it's complicated and, well, unknown | 02:58 |
| stavrakis | Research about other coronaviruses might apply to some degree. | 02:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:59 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: NZ in coronavirus lockdown for next four weeks — from WHO at 01:59: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/e9QcIz | 03:03 |
| stavrakis | But good luck trying to get China to share findings. | 03:04 |
| dividediff[m] | I read a recommendation to shut the toliet seat when flushing for corona somewhere, makes sense with faecal transmission | 03:08 |
| dividediff[m] | lid** | 03:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:00 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus updates: almost one in three Americans must stay home as New Zealand announces lockdown — from WHO at 02:00: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/bEuiim | 03:10 |
| dTal | good advice anyway | 03:11 |
| JoeLlama | moo *cough* | 03:14 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], yes, that makes some sense, i do recall reading a study on the rooms of COVID patients where there was a definitely high amount of viral particles around the toilet | 03:14 |
| LjL | it didn't go as far as determining whether they were viable (infectious) | 03:15 |
| LjL | but it's not great | 03:15 |
| JoeLlama | the thing that scares me is the oil dumping war :( because thsoe guys are smart who trade in oil and if they are dumping at these prices it's NOT good | 03:15 |
| dared | https://art-bd.shinyapps.io/nCov_control/ | 03:16 |
| JoeLlama | you might think it's good when you fill up at the pump but it's not :( | 03:16 |
| LjL | it'll be good when we're out of oil | 03:16 |
| LjL | that'll be a catastrophe i'll look with some interest to, instead of just fear | 03:16 |
| JoeLlama | *sigh* | 03:18 |
| JoeLlama | I think the horders are the smart ones | 03:18 |
| JoeLlama | ah well :) | 03:18 |
| LjL | for some definition of "smart" that involves having no ethics | 03:19 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: I'd asssume there must be a few toliet bowl corona virus surviviors haha | 03:19 |
| JoeLlama | man o man five or six weeks from now when I'm using leaves and twigs to wipe my a%^ with I'll be sorry then that I didn't grab me 144 rolls of TP | 03:20 |
| dividediff[m] | How could corona be transmitted by feces when it's a lung virus? | 03:20 |
| dividediff[m] | JoeLlama: #bidet Life Goals | 03:21 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +282 cases (now 338603), +1 deaths (now 14662), +3 recoveries (now 99131) 🔸 Australia: +256 cases (now 1609) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Austria: +18 cases (now 3582) 🔹 Bermuda: +4 cases (now 6) 🔹 Brazil: +47 cases (now 1593) 🔹 Canada: +44 cases (now 1470), +1 deaths (now 21) [... want %more?] | 03:21 |
| JoeLlama | I think any fluids or gasses given off should be considered hazardous | 03:21 |
| dividediff[m] | wait, farts cuold spread corona? :O | 03:21 |
| JoeLlama | DEATH 8( | 03:21 |
| JoeLlama | possibly | 03:22 |
| JoeLlama | yesQ | 03:22 |
| JoeLlama | they are gasses too | 03:22 |
| JoeLlama | until proven otherwise | 03:22 |
| dividediff[m] | This sounds like pseudo science ha | 03:22 |
| JoeLlama | well see it's like this | 03:22 |
| dividediff[m] | but would explain why evolutionary, farts smell bad | 03:22 |
| JoeLlama | any materials that comes off an infected person you don't want to have anything to do with that okay? | 03:22 |
| xrogaan | <dividediff[m]> contagious for between one and 14 days; one group of Chinese scientists recently suggested that people could be contagious for up to 24 days. | 03:22 |
| JoeLlama | until proven otherwise | 03:22 |
| xrogaan | That isn't recent | 03:23 |
| JoeLlama | and yes besides they smell bad | 03:23 |
| xrogaan | But there wasn't enough data before. | 03:23 |
| dividediff[m] | xrogaan: yea ~feb 14. But has it been proven wrong? | 03:23 |
| JoeLlama | you don't wanna have anything to do with that on multiple levels from an infected person | 03:23 |
| LjL | there are some indications now that people are likely not contagious after 10 days or so | 03:24 |
| JoeLlama | when I walk in a path that another person walk in just seconds before me I hold my breath until I get to the other side | 03:24 |
| LjL | but this has to be taken with some caution still | 03:24 |
| JoeLlama | been doing that all my life | 03:24 |
| JoeLlama | seems to help | 03:24 |
| xrogaan | The first German to be sick and recovered was still contagious afterward as he came back to the hospital after being discharged. | 03:24 |
| JoeLlama | social distancing I have been doing my whole life anyways..... it's just another day to me | 03:24 |
| dividediff[m] | JoeLlama: same, but only for the past ~2 wk for me | 03:24 |
| LjL | <dividediff[m]> How could corona be transmitted by feces when it's a lung virus? ← it doesn't exclusively reside in your lungs | 03:24 |
| JoeLlama | germs it's germs they get all over the place | 03:25 |
| xrogaan | By that I mean that the amount of virus found in his sputum didn't go down, even though he felt better. | 03:25 |
| LjL | your lungs it where it does the most devastating damage, although there are reports of deaths from multi-organ involvement | 03:25 |
| JoeLlama | the virus has a lipid lining that just hates soap | 03:25 |
| JoeLlama | no french kissing :( | 03:25 |
| LjL | yes, don't waste hand sanitizer when you're at home, wash your hands | 03:25 |
| LjL | use sanitizer when outside | 03:25 |
| JoeLlama | no kissing at all! 8( | 03:25 |
| JoeLlama | sanitizer is only so effective | 03:26 |
| LjL | it's better than nothing | 03:26 |
| JoeLlama | soap and water even cold water is better I have researched someplace | 03:26 |
| LjL | streets usually don't come with sinks | 03:26 |
| JoeLlama | yes better than nothing | 03:26 |
| LjL | at least not in my country | 03:26 |
| LjL | there is the odd drinking fountain, but they are a rare find these days ;( | 03:26 |
| JoeLlama | we have sinks in the streets here :) | 03:26 |
| LjL | oh well | 03:26 |
| JoeLlama | oh ok maybe not | 03:26 |
| xrogaan | <stavrakis> But good luck trying to get China to share findings. | 03:26 |
| JoeLlama | sinks in teh laundry mats | 03:27 |
| dividediff[m] | xrogaan: LjL ty | 03:27 |
| xrogaan | They actually do share, a lot. | 03:27 |
| JoeLlama | time to wander back to reality | 03:27 |
| LjL | uh, i've definitely read a number of papers these days that are signed by Chinese authors | 03:27 |
| LjL | residing in China | 03:27 |
| JoeLlama | stay healthy (: | 03:27 |
| LjL | so i have no idea where that notion would come from | 03:27 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: take me to the country that has sinks in the street *music notes* | 03:27 |
| LjL | they also sent us here a large number of doctors and nurses | 03:27 |
| LjL | who have been in Wuhan and treated patients there | 03:28 |
| dividediff[m] | JoeLlama: good luck out there, sanitize your phone! | 03:28 |
| dividediff[m] | Has anyone heard from fujisan (i think thats his/her username)? | 03:28 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +91 cases (now 338694), +7 deaths (now 14669), +257 recoveries (now 99388) 🔸 Korea, South: +64 cases (now 8961), +7 deaths (now 111), +257 recoveries (now 3166) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Guadeloupe: +2 cases (now 58) 🔹 Guyana: +1 cases (now 19) 🔹 Martinique: +7 cases (now 44) 🔹 Reunion: +17 cases (now 64) | 03:36 |
| ryouma | LjL: that sounds great! | 03:39 |
| ryouma | then italy can train westerners | 03:40 |
| ryouma | but why a large number? aren't they still in trouble in wuhan? | 03:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:29 UTC: 'Kiwis - go home': New Zealand to go into month-long lockdown to fight coronavirus: Jacinda Ardern brings in ‘the most significant restrictions on New Zealanders’ movements in modern history’ as cases rise past 100 — from WHO at 02:29: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/0ejoTP | 03:42 |
| LjL | ryouma, it's sort of under control. also, they're kind of *not yet* in trouble in, say, Germany, and yet, as mentioned earlier, we received pretty much no EU aid... no EU action at all, really | 03:43 |
| LjL | sure, they're bracing for impact themselves | 03:44 |
| LjL | but Germany has a ton of free ICU beds | 03:44 |
| LjL | whereas we can't even get patients out of Lombardy and into other regions with free beds | 03:44 |
| LjL | nevermind other countries | 03:44 |
| LjL | i don't *expect* help, every country is being selfish, requisitioning their PPE (mask) production and all that, and i can understand it | 03:44 |
| LjL | but meanwhile, China is *giving* us that stuff (not for free, let's not be silly about that, already had an argument, but they are prioritizing us) | 03:45 |
| ryouma | dividediff[m]: i can't confidently answer re symptoms. my understanding is that physicians are basically trained to take vague, common-language statements from those they treat, and then reason on that. so, say, dizziness could have a bunch of meanings, but they have seen a bunch of cases where you go in and you say dizziness. for non-physicians to translate from reporter-written articles about these sets of symp | 03:45 |
| ryouma | toms in common language that overlap with colds and flu and such feels kind of ... epistemically wiggly. | 03:45 |
| LjL | so i'm just saying, when this is over, Italy will owe much more of a debt to China than it does to the EU | 03:45 |
| fructose | I'm already thinking of plotting the relationship between how countries handle the pandemic and their subsequent migration rate | 03:45 |
| LjL | and that will have its own geopolitical influence | 03:45 |
| LjL | ryouma, physicians are basically trained to take vague common language statement and churn out the first prescription they can think of ;( | 03:46 |
| ryouma | by non-physician i mean myself :) | 03:46 |
| LjL | sorry if that's cynical, but it's often been my experience | 03:46 |
| ryouma | LjL: you are extremely right. i was putting a bright face on it. | 03:46 |
| ryouma | but the key part was the vagueness, the reporter, and the overlap | 03:47 |
| fructose | LjL: How would you describe the overflow in hospitals? Is it just the dense cities? | 03:47 |
| fructose | (In Italy) | 03:47 |
| LjL | no, it's not just the dense cities | 03:48 |
| LjL | well, all of the northern parts of the country involved is, in a way, a huge metropolitan area | 03:48 |
| LjL | one of the vastest in europe | 03:48 |
| LjL | but the actual biggest city, Milan, the virus is only now raising its ugly head there | 03:48 |
| LjL | well, here | 03:48 |
| ryouma | the optimistic view is china is trying to fix something that it knows is a world problem, namely that a bunch of epidemics come from them | 03:48 |
| LjL | you can see that in the graph, although today's slower growth may give some hope | 03:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's death toll crosses 5,000, China reports 39 cases — from WHO at 02:42: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 03:48 |
| ryouma | (you could call it naive) | 03:49 |
| LjL | fructose, i saw a pharmacist interviewed from some small town in the Bergamo province (one of the hardest hit provinces) saying that the deaths from COVID are "the tip of the iceberg", and many more people die, because for example, people on oxygen ask the pharmacy for new oxygen bottles, but the pharmacy hasn't got a supply yet, and it takes two more days | 03:49 |
| LjL | so those people just die, or risk dying | 03:50 |
| LjL | and it's the same for a lot of "secondary" impacts | 03:50 |
| LjL | you have a health emergency, you call 112, but you don't get a line | 03:50 |
| LjL | so you die | 03:50 |
| LjL | you go to the ER for something unrelated to COVID, but you either can't get a doctor on you, or you may end up infected with COVID because hospitals are the worst place for that | 03:50 |
| LjL | (although they are dedicating whole hospitals to COVID while keeping others for other things) | 03:50 |
| fructose | LjL: Are these people on oxygen due to the virus? | 03:52 |
| LjL | no, they are like, COPD patients | 03:52 |
| LjL | but there's a huge oxygen demand, understandably | 03:52 |
| LjL | mostly from COVID patients, i assume | 03:52 |
| LjL | at least, most of the extra demand | 03:52 |
| ryouma | so, this whole europe idea is kind of broken now i guess? like, you cant send folk across borders to go to the icu in a nearby foreign city? | 03:53 |
| ryouma | i keep not wanting to bother my doctor, but i really could use my inhaler | 03:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:43 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus updates: almost one in three Americans must stay home as New Zealand announces lockdown — from WHO at 02:43: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/bEuiim | 03:55 |
| LjL | ryouma, well yes but based on that, then this whole Italy idea is also kind of broken now | 03:55 |
| LjL | %data Lombardia | 03:56 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Lombardia, Italy, there are 27206 cases, 3456 deaths (12.7% of cases), 5865 recoveries as of March 22, 16:00Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardia for time series data. | 03:56 |
| LjL | so, about 20000 active cases | 03:56 |
| LjL | and so far, they moved 66 patients out of Lombardy and to other regions | 03:56 |
| LjL | while doctors in Lombardy are saying they have to choose which patients to save | 03:56 |
| Quarantini[m] | %cases Minnesota, USA | 03:56 |
| LjL | because they don't have enough ventilators for all of them | 03:56 |
| Brainstorm | Quarantini[m]: Sorry, Minnesota, USA not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 03:56 |
| LjL | %cases Minnesota | 03:56 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Minnesota, US, there are 169 cases, 1 deaths (0.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 23, 00:50Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: you also had some slowdown in italy today? | 03:56 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, a little bit. but we already had a bit a couple of days ago... and then it started going up again | 03:57 |
| LjL | so i'm not counting on it for now | 03:57 |
| LjL | let it happen for two more days | 03:57 |
| LjL | and i'll start looking cautiously hopeful | 03:57 |
| LjL | for now, it's just jitter in the data to me | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same here in D, though attributed to weekend bureaucratic "vacancies" | 03:57 |
| LjL | well | 03:57 |
| LjL | i see something anomalous about Milan today | 03:57 |
| LjL | i *hope* there were few cases | 03:57 |
| LjL | but based on what the curve looks like, it's more like they weren't counted | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>two more days<< exactly | 03:58 |
| LjL | so that would change things importantly, given Milan is the largest city impacted | 03:58 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, check https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/ and go down to "L’andamento nelle province con più contagi" | 03:58 |
| LjL | Milan looks like the slowdown today is suspicious compared to the previous exponential growth | 03:59 |
| LjL | a *bit* of a slowdown would be nice, but this looks too much to be true, so maybe they have failed to test enough people today | 03:59 |
| LjL | OTOH Brescia actually looks like it's tapering off | 03:59 |
| LjL | Bergamo is a bit all over the place, i think there are several *distinct* clusters in the area | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RIXWF7wCX-CihFQzNPfb4t26_t9NlReHj2GH2q3Euac/htmlview?sle=true&pru=AAABcNR1cZM*II53AsQSotrXOMrCFz0MfA&lsrp=2# for "Germany" has 17/03 2 088; 18/03 2 967; ... 2 993; ... 4 528; ... 2 516; 22/032 488 for th edaily new cases | 04:01 |
| Albright | %cases idaho | 04:02 |
| Brainstorm | Albright: In Idaho, US, there are 42 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 23, 00:50Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 04:02 |
| Albright | Hmm. The local paper is reporting up to 50. | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | papers (and JHU) always have higher numbers than local authorities (like RKI) | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://i.imgur.com/k14b10O.png | 04:05 |
| LjL | Albright, well these numbers try to be up to date but they cannot always do it | 04:07 |
| LjL | that's alot of charts | 04:07 |
| ryouma | what is a good heat map for world and us maps? | 04:09 |
| ryouma | %data car | 04:09 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, CAR, there are 3 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 23, 02:37Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=CAR for time series data. | 04:09 |
| ryouma | %data rwanda | 04:09 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Rwanda, there are 19 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 22, 23:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Rwanda for time series data. | 04:09 |
| LjL | ryouma, i've assembled basically every map and tracker i could find in the resource link in the channel topic | 04:09 |
| LjL | preferences are subjective | 04:09 |
| xrogaan | Any explanation as to why Germany doesn't have any critical/serious cases? | 04:14 |
| Albright | %data germany | 04:14 |
| Brainstorm | Albright: In all areas, Germany, there are 24873 cases, 94 deaths (0.4% of cases), 266 recoveries as of March 22, 23:43Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 04:14 |
| Albright | I'm guessing those 94 deaths involved critical/serious cases. | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, but "hospitalized" would be a very useful (actually the only relevant and somewhat reliable) number | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no idea why no numbers for the german hospitalized cases | 04:17 |
| nichos[m] | %data usa | 04:19 |
| Brainstorm | nichos[m]: In all areas, US, there are 33546 cases, 419 deaths (1.2% of cases), 178 recoveries as of March 23, 02:37Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 04:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:12 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's death toll crosses 5,000, China reports 39 cases — from WHO at 03:12: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 04:20 |
| LjL | nichos[m], don't hold your breath | 04:20 |
| LjL | the US is catching up from a LOT of testing they didn't do | 04:20 |
| LjL | and also, probably, genuinely being very exponential | 04:21 |
| nichos[m] | im expecting a hgue spike now that testing is rolling out | 04:21 |
| fructose | I expect the New York subway had something to do with it | 04:21 |
| nichos[m] | but, hopefully that 1.2% will go down, and in a week we'll see some flatening | 04:22 |
| xrogaan | interactive map for germany https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/corona-virus-karte-infektionen-deutschland-weltweit/ | 04:22 |
| nichos[m] | %data japan | 04:22 |
| Brainstorm | nichos[m]: In all areas, Japan, there are 1101 cases, 41 deaths (3.7% of cases), 235 recoveries as of March 23, 02:37Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Japan for time series data. | 04:22 |
| nichos[m] | ^^ speaking of subways | 04:22 |
| xrogaan | They do have serious cases, apparently. | 04:22 |
| xrogaan | well, I don't know | 04:23 |
| xrogaan | they show infected, recovered, and death | 04:24 |
| fructose | Sounds like they are doing minimal testing, though I don't know the latest | 04:24 |
| xrogaan | https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/2020-03-22-en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile | 04:25 |
| yuriwho | https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/analysis-steven-lewis-why-covid-deadly-benign-1.5500288 | 04:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:12 UTC: Papua New Guinea declares state of emergency after first coronavirus case: A foreign mine worker is confirmed as the country’s first case, as Guam records the Pacific region’s first Covid-19 death — from WHO at 03:12: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/Od5l7D | 04:26 |
| yuriwho | %title | 04:26 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From www.cbc.ca: 'An epidemiological mystery': Why Is COVID-19 so much deadlier in some countries than others? | CBC News | 04:27 |
| xrogaan | They don't report the state of the patient. I suspect something related to confidentiality. | 04:28 |
| fructose | According to Our World in Data, Japan had completed 14,901 tests as of March 19 | 04:29 |
| xrogaan | I found the PDF there: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Gesamt.html | 04:29 |
| fructose | Japan has 126.8 million people | 04:30 |
| fructose | By comparison, South Korea had completed 316,664 tests and have a population of 51.47 million | 04:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:25 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's death toll crosses 5,000, China reports 39 cases — from WHO at 03:25: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 04:33 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +1194 cases (now 339888), +32 deaths (now 14701), +1 recoveries (now 99389) 🔸 US: +1171 cases (now 34717), +32 deaths (now 451) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Australia: +20 cases (now 1629) 🔹 China: +3 cases (now 81435), +1 recoveries (now 72814) 🔹 Macau, China: +3 cases (now 24) [... want %more?] | 04:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 04:09 UTC: /u/slakmehl: US President announces a re-evaluation of Coronavirus response at the end of "the 15 day period". This appears to be in reference to an annoucement from a March 17th press conference in which the White House gave guidance (but not formal policy) to avoid unnecessary travel and large social gatherings. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/kxJkpb | 05:11 |
| BruntLIVE | name your new baby Corona? | 05:15 |
| nichos[m] | corona and covid | 05:17 |
| python47` | o/ | 05:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's death toll crosses 5,000, China reports 39 cases — from WHO at 04:19: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 05:23 |
| python47` | damn migraine | 05:24 |
| LissajousPattern | "Hoarding anything that may be essential for people at this time equates to killing them" What kind of shit is that? | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the truth | 05:35 |
| LissajousPattern | so stockpiling=murder? | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same way like shooting=killing | 05:37 |
| ryouma | getting what you reasonably need is good so that you can self-isolate, but reducing availability to those who have special needs is harm | 05:37 |
| fructose | Stocking up is recommended. Hoarding is excessive. | 05:37 |
| spybert | remember when this is all over that you should always keep a stockpile, so you dont need to acquire stuff when everyone else needs it too | 05:39 |
| spybert | you indirectly help others by being a prepper :-) | 05:41 |
| LissajousPattern | "Preppers" are on the domestic terrorist list here. | 05:41 |
| ryouma | i think the term has become more benign | 05:42 |
| python47` | hey .. survival of the fittest after all | 05:43 |
| LissajousPattern | Well I personally cannot hoard anything. I do not have a place to put all the stuff. | 05:43 |
| xrogaan | LissajousPattern: think of the older folks, unable to fight for resources. | 05:44 |
| xrogaan | LissajousPattern: people just go in and buy everything, leaving nothing for the most vulnerable. | 05:44 |
| LissajousPattern | xrogaan, I delivered goods to an older person today. | 05:44 |
| LissajousPattern | Instead of sleeping in on my day off | 05:44 |
| ryouma | \o/ | 05:44 |
| xrogaan | Well good, not all the eldery have somebody like you. | 05:44 |
| LissajousPattern | True | 05:44 |
| LissajousPattern | Sharing is caring | 05:45 |
| LissajousPattern | I will be delivering goods to people all day at work too. | 05:45 |
| LissajousPattern | I do not get to self isolate. | 05:45 |
| xrogaan | Put on a mask, use hand sanitizer. | 05:46 |
| ryouma | are supplies starting to come back for some stuff? | 05:46 |
| LissajousPattern | I had a mask on and my supervisor gave me a bunch of shit saying it was unprofessional. | 05:46 |
| xrogaan | If you do deliveries, you may become an important spread vector. | 05:46 |
| Raf[m] | I don't understand why most people don't buy toilet paper in bulk on a normal basis. It's not like it expires | 05:46 |
| LissajousPattern | I kept it on, mind you. | 05:46 |
| fructose | LissajousPattern: I hope you're keeping your distance from the elderly | 05:46 |
| LissajousPattern | fructose, I am | 05:47 |
| Albright | https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1790451-2019-20-coronavirus-outbreak | 05:47 |
| ryouma | if you are wearing a non-valve one, and even if you are wearing a valve one to some degree, i would think "she's a pro" | 05:47 |
| LissajousPattern | ryouma, sadly there are none | 05:47 |
| xrogaan | gas mask maybe too alarmist :p | 05:47 |
| ryouma | LissajousPattern: none of what? | 05:47 |
| LissajousPattern | Those masks | 05:48 |
| ryouma | you said you wear them? | 05:48 |
| xrogaan | I might want a plague doctor mask, makes things smell nice. | 05:48 |
| ryouma | or wore one | 05:48 |
| LissajousPattern | ryouma, I said I was wearing a mask. Sadly that means a cotton cloth at this point. | 05:48 |
| ryouma | you could get a reusable one, but the outside will be untouchable, and you will be protecting only yourself (which is still good if you are healthy) | 05:49 |
| LissajousPattern | like a bandanna | 05:49 |
| ryouma | that might be better than nothing, dunno. i do know a lot of folk are making masks using sewing patterns | 05:50 |
| fructose | LissajousPattern: https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/ | 05:50 |
| ryouma | the problem with the valves being if they face straight, you might be concentrating a flow of unfiltered air onto your customer. if they face down, that might be a bit safer. | 05:51 |
| ryouma | but you can maybe tape the valves if it is a disposable type | 05:52 |
| LissajousPattern | well I thought I was going to be fired. | 05:53 |
| ryouma | glad you stood your ground on that | 05:54 |
| LissajousPattern | My supervisor can eat a fat one. | 05:54 |
| LissajousPattern | I will fight the a-hole if need be | 05:54 |
| LissajousPattern | The place I work was full of sick people within the last two months. | 05:57 |
| LissajousPattern | Some of them still have symptoms to the point where they should be staying home just for safe measure. | 05:58 |
| LissajousPattern | But nope. | 05:58 |
| LissajousPattern | I seem to be the only one that is taking this whole thing seriously. | 05:58 |
| LissajousPattern | One person I work with decided to take a cruise within the last month. | 05:59 |
| LissajousPattern | I just want to scream when I am around these idiots. However I keep my composure. | 06:00 |
| LissajousPattern | I wish I could find another job right now that would let me work remotely. | 06:01 |
| LissajousPattern | fructose, thanks for the link, by the way. | 06:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:00 UTC: The coronavirus outbreak made me cancel my wedding: In the midst of the coronavirus pandemic, weddings around the world are getting postponed. Here's why I canceled mine. — from WHO at 05:00: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/rZcG9I | 06:08 |
| Albright | That's silly. Just have a courthouse wedding and do the ceremony later. | 06:14 |
| Albright | Although I suppose that part of the courthouse might be shut down. | 06:14 |
| farn | I can see why one might not feel like getting married during a global pandemic. | 06:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:08 UTC: 'Incompetence attack': MyGov website did not crash because of DDoS cyber attack, as Stuart Robert claimed: Robert backtracks only hours after saying the Australian government website had suffered a distributed denial of service as use surged amid the coronavirus outbreak [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/pBERP2 | 06:20 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +250 cases (now 340138), +3 deaths (now 14704), +127 recoveries (now 99516) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Australia: +20 cases (now 1629) 🔹 Belgium: +77 recoveries (now 340) 🔹 China: +7 cases (now 81439), +1 recoveries (now 72814) 🔹 Macau, China: +3 cases (now 24) 🔹 Shanghai, China: +1 recoveries (now 329) [... want %more?] | 06:21 |
| p0laris | %data <spain> | 06:25 |
| Brainstorm | p0laris: In all areas, World, there are 340138 cases, 14704 deaths (4.3% of cases), 99516 recoveries as of March 23, 05:17Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. | 06:25 |
| xrogaan | LissajousPattern: be like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYsMjEeEg4g | 06:25 |
| xrogaan | :P | 06:25 |
| Albright | Ah, late '90s pop music. | 06:26 |
| farn | %data spain | 06:26 |
| Brainstorm | farn: In all areas, Spain, there are 28768 cases, 1772 deaths (6.2% of cases), 2575 recoveries as of March 22, 23:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Spain for time series data. | 06:27 |
| ryouma | %data tonga | 06:27 |
| Albright | I'm in high school and my whole life is in front of me. How could I have known all the ways I would screw it up? | 06:27 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: Sorry, tonga not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 06:27 |
| LissajousPattern | xrogaan, great song | 06:27 |
| ryouma | %data us | 06:27 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, US, there are 34717 cases, 452 deaths (1.3% of cases), 178 recoveries as of March 23, 05:17Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 06:27 |
| fructose | Johns Hopkins map just added a lot of detail | 06:43 |
| fructose | In US at least | 06:44 |
| Albright | "New York" is listed twice and the second item puts it off the west coast of Africa. | 06:47 |
| Albright | Also "Washington" is listed several times. | 06:47 |
| Albright | I don't get how this works. | 06:47 |
| Albright | Wait, now New York is fine but Georgia is an island. | 06:48 |
| xrogaan | There is a state and a city | 06:48 |
| Albright | I'm confused. WHatever. | 06:48 |
| fructose | I wouldn't rule out it not actually working. They've been consistently bad as a data repo. | 06:48 |
| Albright | Wait, 17K in New York? Is that right? | 06:49 |
| Albright | %data New york | 06:49 |
| Brainstorm | Albright: In New York, US, there are 15793 cases, 117 deaths (0.7% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 23, 00:50Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 06:49 |
| Albright | Damn. | 06:49 |
| farn | The place off the west coast of Africa is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_Island | 06:49 |
| xrogaan | There is Seattle in Washington and Washington in Virginia. | 06:49 |
| fructose | Just think of all the places that aren't testing heavily | 06:50 |
| xrogaan | Just thing of all the people rushing the market and ganging on each other to buy stuff. | 06:51 |
| fructose | All 4? I'd expect we'd get plenty of videos if that were rampant | 06:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:47 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's death toll crosses 5,000, China reports 39 cases — from WHO at 05:47: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 06:52 |
| xrogaan | https://i.redd.it/1jr8b0bzibo41.jpg | 07:03 |
| Albright | To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty memes. | 07:08 |
| fructose | People don't remember that they were warned. That would mean they'd have to start listening to others. | 07:13 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +212 cases (now 340350), +14 deaths (now 14718), +1 recoveries (now 99517) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Australia: +20 cases (now 1629) 🔹 Belgium: +77 recoveries (now 340) 🔹 China: +7 cases (now 81439), +1 recoveries (now 72814) 🔹 Macau, China: +3 cases (now 24) 🔹 Shanghai, China: +1 recoveries (now 329) [... want %more?] | 07:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:05 UTC: (news): European markets head for lower open as the coronavirus continues to take its toll — from WHO at 06:05: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/c766Vb | 07:24 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +27406 cases (now 367756), +1145 deaths (now 15863), +2547 recoveries (now 102064) 🔸 US: +339 cases (now 35056), +6 deaths (now 457) 🔸 Diamond Princess, Cruise Ship: +242 recoveries (now 567) 🔸 Cruise Ship: +242 recoveries (now 567) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) [... want %more?] | 07:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:25 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak — from WHO at 06:25: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/NzGqUE | 07:36 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +360 cases (now 368116), +1 deaths (now 15864) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Australia: +100 cases (now 1709), +31 recoveries (now 119) 🔹 Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +13 cases (now 32) 🔹 New South Wales, Australia: +136 cases (now 669) 🔹 Northern Territory, Australia: +2 cases (now 5) [... want %more?] | 07:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:43 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Philippines isolates hundreds of health workers as coronavirus cases rise in south-east Asia — from WHO at 06:43: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/MjkOW8 | 07:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:14 UTC: NRL suspends season and closes offices in response to Covid-19 outbreak: 2020 campaign called off indefinitely Hundreds of staff forced to take annual leave The NRL has indefinitely suspended the 2020 season, despite the league’s desperate attempts to keep the competition going amid the coronavirus pandemic. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/JmBtXg | 08:27 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +384 cases (now 368500), +5 recoveries (now 102069) 🔸 Switzerland: +250 cases (now 7724) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Australia: +100 cases (now 1709), +31 recoveries (now 119) 🔹 Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +13 cases (now 32) 🔹 New South Wales, Australia: +136 cases (now 669) [... want %more?] | 08:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:34 UTC: Coronavirus and Australian sport – a list of the major cancellations: From the football codes to netball and tennis, Covid-19 has disrupted the sporting calendar. Here is an updating list of the state of play — from WHO at 07:34: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/GsE3EG | 08:39 |
| fructose | I regret my decision to eat a dried snack. | 08:45 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +1177 cases (now 369677), +42 deaths (now 15906), +23 recoveries (now 102092) 🔸 Spain: +1141 cases (now 29909), +41 deaths (now 1813) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Australia: +100 cases (now 1709), +31 recoveries (now 119) 🔹 Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +13 cases (now 32) [... want %more?] | 08:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:47 UTC: NRL plunged into 'financial crisis' as season is suspended in response to Covid-19: No date for return to play; players told to stop training League closes offices and forces staff to go on leave The 2020 NRL season has been suspended indefinitely, despite the league’s desperate attempts to keep the competition going [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/JmBtXg | 08:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:57 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Australia goes into lockdown, denies entry to cruise ship — from WHO at 07:57: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 09:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:10 UTC: European markets tumble as the coronavirus continues to take its toll; Stoxx 600 down 4.5%: European markets fell sharply on Monday morning as the coronavirus outbreak continues to take its toll on the international community and financial markets. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/c766Vb | 09:14 |
| xrogaan | Heh, I wonder how the mormons are coping. | 09:23 |
| pwr22 | !cases bristol | 09:24 |
| CovBot | In Bristol, City of, United Kingdom there have been a total of 23 cases as of 2020-03-23 08:18:55 UTC. | 09:24 |
| pwr22 | 😧 | 09:24 |
| pwr22 | Good morning all | 09:24 |
| pwr22 | Though is it really good? | 09:24 |
| nick34348 | Good morning | 09:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:22 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus news: New Zealand announces lockdown; Hong Kong bars entry to all non-residents - live updates — from WHO at 08:22: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/bEuiim | 09:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Australia goes into lockdown, denies entry to cruise ship — from WHO at 08:30: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 09:34 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +297 cases (now 369974), +1 deaths (now 15907), +14 recoveries (now 102106) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Australia: +100 cases (now 1709), +31 recoveries (now 119) 🔹 Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +13 cases (now 32) 🔹 New South Wales, Australia: +136 cases (now 669) [... want %more?] | 09:36 |
| pyna | PA list of "life-sustaining services" that may remain open https://dig.abclocal.go.com/wpvi/pdf/032020-wpvi-for-natalie-pdf.pdf | 09:41 |
| pyna | "Private Households" listed as "May Not Continue Physical Operations" heh | 09:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:40 UTC: Matt Hancock: Hancock says those still socialising in UK are slowing coronavirus effort — from WHO at 08:40: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/YwlqqW | 09:47 |
| pwr22 | !cases london | 09:53 |
| CovBot | In London, United Kingdom there have been a total of 2,189 cases as of 2020-03-23 08:40:39 UTC. | 09:53 |
| DARK_Lord | %data Ukraine | 09:58 |
| Brainstorm | DARK_Lord: In all areas, Ukraine, there are 73 cases, 3 deaths (4.1% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 23, 07:57Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Ukraine for time series data. | 09:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:48 UTC: Germany to unveil major stimulus as virus death toll rises throughout Europe: Germany is about to unveil new measures to mitigate the economic impact of the coronavirus, in what analysts are describing as a "game changer" for a country that's the leader of fiscal prudency. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bi44q6 | 09:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:03 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Buongiorno a tutti, mentre eravate via — from WHO at 09:03: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/kfTGjZ | 10:05 |
| mefistofeles | %cases Germany | 10:06 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Germany, there are 24904 cases, 94 deaths (0.4% of cases), 266 recoveries as of March 23, 09:02Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 10:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:13 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Hancock condemns people ignoring two-metre distance rule in parks as 'very selfish' — from WHO at 09:13: We can beat COVID-19 virus through solidarity: WHO Regional Director for Europe → https://is.gd/xQ5gWs | 10:18 |
| neoabo | Why You Have CCE (Corona Cognitive Epidemic) and What To Do About It – Samuel Veissière, Ph.D. – #674 | 10:20 |
| neoabo | https://blog.daveasprey.com/samuel-veissiere-674/ | 10:20 |
| fritzien | %data germany | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +341 cases (now 370315), +10 deaths (now 15917), +2 recoveries (now 102108) 🔹 Albania: +2 deaths (now 4) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Australia: +100 cases (now 1709), +31 recoveries (now 119) 🔹 Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +13 cases (now 32) 🔹 New South Wales, Australia: +136 cases (now 669) [... want %more?] | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | fritzien: In all areas, Germany, there are 24904 cases, 94 deaths (0.4% of cases), 266 recoveries as of March 23, 09:03Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:18 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Australia goes into lockdown, denies entry to cruise ship — from WHO at 09:18: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 10:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:25 UTC: Germany to unveil major stimulus as virus death toll rises throughout Europe: Germany is about to unveil new measures to mitigate the economic impact of the coronavirus, in what analysts are describing as a "game changer." — from WHO at 09:25: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/bi44q6 | 10:30 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +592 cases (now 370907), +5 deaths (now 15922) 🔸 Germany: +608 cases (now 25481), +5 deaths (now 99) 🔹 Albania: +2 deaths (now 4) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Australia: +100 cases (now 1709), +31 recoveries (now 119) 🔹 Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +13 cases (now 32) [... want %more?] | 10:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:32 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New Zealand prepares for lockdown; Hong Kong to ban tourists — from WHO at 09:32: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 10:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:39 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Hancock condemns people ignoring two-metre distance rule in parks as 'very selfish' — from WHO at 09:39: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/xQ5gWs | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +987 cases (now 371894), +11 deaths (now 15933), +25 recoveries (now 102133) 🔸 Malaysia: +212 cases (now 1518), +3 deaths (now 14), +20 recoveries (now 159) 🔸 Germany: +678 cases (now 26159), +7 deaths (now 106) 🔹 Albania: +3 deaths (now 5) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) [... want %more?] | 10:52 |
| adventurer | https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/north-america/in-study-of-coronavirus-genes-scientists-shortlist-69-drugs-that-might-stop-it-20200323-p54d2x.html | 10:59 |
| CovBot | I now have more detailed location data for the United Kingdom, sourced from Public Health England. This means that things like '!cases london', '!cases bristol' and '!cases south west' will work. | 11:33 |
| Bluebird | Hi | 11:33 |
| pepee | https://twitter.com/Cameronvdburgh/status/1241825206764736514 | 11:34 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +1895 cases (now 373789), +151 deaths (now 16084), +12 recoveries (now 102145) 🔸 Iran: +1411 cases (now 23049), +127 deaths (now 1812) 🔸 Belgium: +342 cases (now 3743), +13 deaths (now 88), +87 recoveries (now 350) 🔹 Albania: +3 deaths (now 5) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) [... want %more?] | 11:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:39 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: India — from WHO at 10:39: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/2sMO8V | 11:45 |
| adventurer | https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=222989315481311¬if_id=1584959107429775¬if_t=live_video_explicit | 11:48 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 11:51 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.facebook.com: Accedi a Facebook | Facebook | 11:51 |
| mefistofeles | :/ | 11:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:44 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Hancock condemns people ignoring two-metre distance rule in parks as 'very selfish' — from WHO at 10:44: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/xQ5gWs | 11:52 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +5 cases (now 373794), +1 deaths (now 16085), +463 recoveries (now 102608) 🔸 Iran: +463 recoveries (now 8376) 🔹 Albania: +3 deaths (now 5) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) 🔹 Australia: +100 cases (now 1709), +31 recoveries (now 119) 🔹 Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +13 cases (now 32) [... want %more?] | 11:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American at 10:45 UTC: Lessons from Past Outbreaks Could Help Fight the Coronavirus Pandemic: Emergency flu hospital, staffed by U.S. Navy hospital corpsmen, that was set up in San Francisco to help care for those stricken by the influenza outbreak in 1918. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/4fONX5 | 11:58 |
| sneep | !cases london | 11:59 |
| CovBot | In London, United Kingdom there have been a total of 2,189 cases as of 2020-03-23 10:59:10 UTC. | 11:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:01 UTC: Syria: Syria confirms first Covid-19 case amid fears of catastrophic spread — from WHO at 11:01: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/6SGRzu | 12:04 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +3845 cases (now 377639), +372 deaths (now 16457), +796 recoveries (now 103404) 🔸 Switzerland: +428 cases (now 8234), +2 deaths (now 102) 🔸 Spain: +3180 cases (now 33089), +369 deaths (now 2182), +780 recoveries (now 3355) 🔹 Albania: +3 deaths (now 5) 🔹 Argentina: +41 cases (now 266) 🔹 Aruba: +1 cases (now 9) [... want %more?] | 12:07 |
| blackntan | %data ireland | 12:08 |
| Brainstorm | blackntan: In all areas, Ireland, there are 906 cases, 4 deaths (0.4% of cases), 5 recoveries as of March 23, 10:10Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Ireland for time series data. | 12:08 |
| berndj | grrr people in my city still fast asleep. just paid my vehicle licence (a process that should be suspended imho) and people were queueing and standing on top of each other | 12:11 |
| alohaferret | https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/ | 12:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:12 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New Zealand prepares for lockdown; Hong Kong to ban tourists — from WHO at 11:12: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 12:17 |
| pepee | https://theintercept.com/2020/03/20/us-coronavirus-outbreak-italy/ | 12:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:32 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: calls for tougher distancing measures amid concerns over people ignoring two-metre rule in parks — from WHO at 11:32: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/xQ5gWs | 12:36 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +992 cases (now 378681), +5 deaths (now 16463), +2 recoveries (now 103407) 🔸 France: +463 cases (now 16481) 🔸 France: +463 cases (now 16481) 🔹 Bangladesh: +2 recoveries (now 5) 🔹 Burkina Faso: +24 cases (now 99) 🔹 China: +42 cases (now 81496) 🔹 Guangdong, China: +2 cases (now 1415) 🔹 Hong Kong, China: +39 cases (now 356) [... want %more?] | 12:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Spain death doll crosses 2,100; UK brings in the army to deliver supplies — from WHO at 11:41: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 12:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:57 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Deaths in Spain surge, broad testing 'weeks if not months' away — from WHO at 11:57: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 13:00 |
| jiffe | JHU US map is more granular now, looks like county rather than state | 13:03 |
| jiffe | they still seem to have problems with recovery data | 13:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:03 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna — from WHO at 12:03: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/tDvq0l | 13:06 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +304 cases (now 378985), +4 deaths (now 16467), +5 recoveries (now 103412) 🔹 Austria: +47 cases (now 3806) 🔹 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 339) 🔹 Bangladesh: +2 recoveries (now 5) 🔹 Burkina Faso: +24 cases (now 99) 🔹 China: +42 cases (now 81496) 🔹 Guangdong, China: +2 cases (now 1415) 🔹 Hong Kong, China: +39 cases (now 356) [... want %more?] | 13:09 |
| pagetelegram | briar://ac6sizlurho624hmtx54fqqyipujwdwoxdxykkcxdwfva5kidbyeq | 13:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:05 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Deaths in Spain surge, broad testing 'weeks if not months' away — from WHO at 12:05: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 13:12 |
| pagetelegram | presume tower shuts down without notice and faraday containment. RNA is effected in 90-95ghz range. Mutation may not be natural. What is known is U of Michigan Ann Arbor published a study that virus had HIV protein and now new studies there is no HIV protein. | 13:13 |
| pagetelegram | Get Briar for better mesh capabilities than Signal. I have the APK for side loading if folks in my containment don't get down quickly on getting the mesh app | 13:14 |
| pagetelegram | If I get time I will publish this at https://hand.is | 13:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:13 UTC: It's 'premature' to say if the US has failed in its pandemic preparedness, Fauci says: The battle against the coronavirus pandemic is "almost like the fog of war," top U.S. health official Dr. Anthony Fauci in an interview with Science magazine. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/18saWX | 13:18 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +477 cases (now 379462), +11 deaths (now 16478), +9 recoveries (now 103421) 🔸 Portugal: +460 cases (now 2060), +9 deaths (now 23), +9 recoveries (now 14) 🔹 Austria: +47 cases (now 3806) 🔹 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 339) 🔹 Bangladesh: +2 recoveries (now 5) 🔹 Burkina Faso: +24 cases (now 99) 🔹 China: +42 cases (now 81496) [... want %more?] | 13:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:22 UTC: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Monday: U.S. stock futures hit their 5% "limit down" overnight as a massive coronavirus funding package failed a key Senate procedural vote. But futures then moved higher Monday on a new Fed pledge. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uoY51P | 13:28 |
| Birosso | %cases germany | 13:30 |
| Brainstorm | Birosso: In all areas, Germany, there are 26220 cases, 111 deaths (0.4% of cases), 266 recoveries as of March 23, 11:16Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 13:30 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %data uk | 13:32 |
| Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, United Kingdom, there are 5683 cases, 281 deaths (4.9% of cases), 135 recoveries as of March 23, 12:19Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 13:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Fed juices the markets, broad testing 'weeks if not months' away — from WHO at 12:30: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 13:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:35 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: calls for tougher distancing measures amid concerns over people ignoring two-metre rule in parks — from WHO at 12:35: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/xQ5gWs | 13:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:43 UTC: (news): European markets fall as the coronavirus continues to take its toll; Stoxx 600 down 2% — from WHO at 12:43: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/c766Vb | 13:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:50 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Fed juices the markets, broad testing 'weeks if not months' away — from WHO at 12:50: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 13:52 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +220 cases (now 379682), +7 deaths (now 16485), +215 recoveries (now 103636) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Austria: +47 cases (now 3806) 🔹 Azerbaijan: +7 cases (now 72) 🔹 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 339) 🔹 Bangladesh: +2 recoveries (now 5) 🔹 Belgium: +51 recoveries (now 401) 🔹 Burkina Faso: +24 cases (now 99) 🔹 China: +42 cases (now 81496) [... want %more?] | 13:54 |
| euod[m] | there's claims people over 65 in Spain aren't being treated anymore. | 13:57 |
| eaxomar_ | euod from who? | 13:57 |
| euod[m] | same in Italy. | 13:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: UK brings in the army to deliver supplies; Global deaths surpass 15,000 — from WHO at 12:51: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/1WpFhK | 13:59 |
| euod[m] | <eaxomar_ "euod from who?"> I'm trying to find an authorative source and failing. | 14:00 |
| eaxomar_ | not to be paranoid, but that sounds like disinfo | 14:00 |
| euod[m] | probably, but it wouldn't surprise me. | 14:01 |
| eaxomar_ | altough in italy it's sure they'll have to choose who gets the respirator | 14:01 |
| eaxomar_ | it's likely to be on an individual case basis | 14:02 |
| AimHere | There's video of patients lying on the floor in Spanish hospitals | 14:02 |
| eaxomar_ | still terrible admittedly | 14:02 |
| AimHere | And with 462 deaths in one day, they're surely overloaded | 14:03 |
| eaxomar_ | link? | 14:03 |
| euod[m] | that's.. what's going to happen unfortunately. you have to make a call somewhere, and that's going to be with who is most likely to survive. | 14:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:00 UTC: Global coronavirus cases cross 350,000, death toll passes 15,000 as pandemic takes hold: Global cases have more than doubled in the past week, according to the World Health Organization, and worldwide deaths have nearly tripled. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1WSHif | 14:05 |
| ubLIX | eaxomar_: seems to me the natural assumption at this point is that extreme triage is the norm; ie that evidence would be needed to justify the belief it is not happening | 14:07 |
| euod[m] | https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1241936657370275841 "Global air traffic at 03:30 UTC today, 23 March, compared to last month same time." | 14:08 |
| AimHere | https://twitter.com/edleonklinger/status/1241699484469526531?s=20 <- eaxomar_ | 14:08 |
| euod[m] | the US needs to shut that shit down. | 14:09 |
| eaxomar_ | aimhere thx | 14:09 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +521 cases (now 380203), +20 deaths (now 16505) 🔸 Switzerland: +313 cases (now 8547), +11 deaths (now 118) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Austria: +106 cases (now 3865) 🔹 Azerbaijan: +7 cases (now 72) 🔹 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 339) 🔹 Bangladesh: +2 recoveries (now 5) 🔹 Belgium: +51 recoveries (now 401) 🔹 Brazil: +1 cases (now 1620) [... want %more?] | 14:09 |
| euod[m] | how is there basically no change in the US. | 14:09 |
| euod[m] | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETuEG7bWoAEeqOE?format=jpg&name=large the graph of the data looks better. | 14:10 |
| AimHere | euod[m], domestic vs international flights | 14:10 |
| euod[m] | but the scale on that graph is fucked. | 14:10 |
| euod[m] | it's not as big of a drop as it seems. | 14:10 |
| AimHere | Far fewer International flights while domestic ones are probably not curbed as hard | 14:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:04 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Fed juices the markets, broad testing 'weeks if not months' away — from WHO at 13:04: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 14:11 |
| euod[m] | <AimHere "euod, domestic vs international "> yeah, why is the US running domestic flights at all. | 14:11 |
| AimHere | That is a 7-day average, so it's likely a sharper drop | 14:11 |
| euod[m] | "With 6800 flights in the air around the world right now, we're tracking 39% fewer total flights compared to last month at the same time and 43% fewer compared to 1 year ago." | 14:11 |
| euod[m] | it should be zero. | 14:11 |
| AimHere | In fact, you can see the faint ghost line where it's plummeting | 14:11 |
| AimHere | euod[m], there needs to be some movement of essential personnel, though | 14:11 |
| AimHere | I wouldn't know what proportion of flights that would be | 14:12 |
| euod[m] | <AimHere "euod, there needs to be some mov"> so charter them. it's not like these scheduled flights are financially viable. | 14:12 |
| AimHere | This is 'total flights' | 14:12 |
| AimHere | Some of them may be chartered | 14:12 |
| AimHere | Some of them might be empty flights moving aircraft to the appropriate airport for when business starts up again. Or moving flight crew back home | 14:13 |
| euod[m] | heh, when buisness starts up again. | 14:13 |
| euod[m] | that won't be for a long time. | 14:13 |
| AimHere | Indeed. | 14:13 |
| euod[m] | in canada some of the airlines are already literally closed. https://www.flyporter.com/en-ca/ | 14:14 |
| AimHere | So you want to have your plane nestled in the place where it can be maintained properly | 14:14 |
| euod[m] | "resuming june 1" | 14:14 |
| euod[m] | yeah right. | 14:14 |
| python47` | o/ | 14:14 |
| python47` | who's ded | 14:14 |
| euod[m] | 15,328 people. | 14:15 |
| python47` | F | 14:16 |
| euod[m] | you're an asshole. | 14:16 |
| MrBrave | F | 14:17 |
| euod[m] | you too. | 14:18 |
| python47` | euod[m]: it's metasarcasm | 14:18 |
| eaxomar_ | i'm too dumb for this level of humour | 14:19 |
| eaxomar_ | whatever happened to farts and banana peels | 14:19 |
| euod[m] | that’s justifying being an asshole. | 14:19 |
| ubLIX | ok, let's leave it. tensions and sensitivities are high | 14:20 |
| eaxomar_ | yeh | 14:20 |
| python47` | ubLIX is right | 14:20 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +619 cases (now 380822), +24 deaths (now 16529), +31 recoveries (now 103667) 🔸 France: +208 cases (now 16689) 🔸 France: +208 cases (now 16689) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Austria: +164 cases (now 3923) 🔹 Azerbaijan: +7 cases (now 72) 🔹 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 339) 🔹 Bangladesh: +2 recoveries (now 5) [... want %more?] | 14:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:23 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: calls for tougher distancing measures as death toll rises in Wales and Scotland — from WHO at 13:23: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/xQ5gWs | 14:29 |
| berndj | what are pCO2 levels doing? any statistically significant departures from multi-year averages yet? | 14:34 |
| python47` | berndj: what do you mena ? | 14:35 |
| python47` | mean* | 14:35 |
| berndj | python47`, with all the reduced flying and driving, i'm wondering if that's enough of a reduction in CO2 emissions to show up in the stats | 14:37 |
| berndj | or maybe it's just a drop in the ocean and invisible | 14:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 13:35 UTC: Coronavirus: What is shielding?: People most at risk of needing hospital treatment if they get coronavirus are being asked to stay home. — from WHO at 13:35: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/hXd2iJ | 14:41 |
| python47` | oh earth pCO2 | 14:42 |
| python47` | I read pO2.. in blood | 14:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 350,000, Starbucks hikes pay by $3 an hour — from WHO at 13:42: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 14:47 |
| Mikaela | %data Finland | 14:50 |
| Brainstorm | Mikaela: In all areas, Finland, there are 700 cases, 1 deaths (0.1% of cases), 10 recoveries as of March 23, 13:31Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Finland for time series data. | 14:50 |
| Mikaela | %data Uusimaa | 14:50 |
| Brainstorm | Mikaela: Sorry, Uusimaa not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 14:50 |
| Mikaela | %data Uusimaa, Finland | 14:51 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +2202 cases (now 383024), +92 deaths (now 16621), +5 recoveries (now 103672) 🔸 Netherlands: +545 cases (now 4749), +34 deaths (now 213) 🔸 Netherlands: +545 cases (now 4749), +34 deaths (now 213) 🔸 Germany: +961 cases (now 27181), +2 deaths (now 113) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) [... want %more?] | 14:51 |
| Brainstorm | Mikaela: Sorry, Uusimaa, Finland not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 14:51 |
| Jigsy | %data Helsinki, Finland | 14:58 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: Sorry, Helsinki, Finland not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 14:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:55 UTC: (news): GE's aviation unit cutting 10% of its US workforce as coronavirus hurts air travel — from WHO at 13:55: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/FxGOji | 14:59 |
| pwr22 | !data helsinki | 15:00 |
| pwr22 | * !cases helsinki | 15:00 |
| CovBot | My data doesn't seem to include helsinki. It might be under a different name, data on it might not be available or there could even be no cases. You may have more luck if you try a less specific location, like the country it's in. | 15:00 |
| CovBot | If you think I should have data on it you can open an issue at https://github.com/pwr22/covbot/issues and Peter will take a look. | 15:00 |
| pwr22 | Guess Helsinki is not in the JHU data | 15:00 |
| pwr22 | !cases *Finland | 15:00 |
| CovBot | In Finland there have been a total of 700 cases as of 2020-03-23 13:31:00 UTC. Of these 689 (98.4%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 10 (1.4%) have definitely recovered and 1 (0.1%) have died. | 15:00 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, only country level | 15:01 |
| Jigsy | Wait... | 15:01 |
| Jigsy | %data Helsinki | 15:01 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: Sorry, Helsinki not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 15:01 |
| Jigsy | Bah. | 15:01 |
| Mikaela | there are plans to isolate Uusimaa region which includes Helsinki amongst multiple other cities from other regions, another I would be interested in would be Kymenlaakso | 15:02 |
| Mikaela | %data HUS | 15:02 |
| Brainstorm | Mikaela: In Massachusetts, US, there are 646 cases, 5 deaths (0.8% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 23, 00:50Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Massachusetts for time series data. | 15:02 |
| Mikaela | HUS would be the health care region of Uusimaa | 15:02 |
| pwr22 | Jigsy: do you know any decent data sources that have that level of granularity for Finland? If so I can add it into Cov Bot | 15:02 |
| pwr22 | Best would probably be something with csv or json format available | 15:02 |
| Jigsy | Alas, nay. | 15:03 |
| Jigsy | I don't live in Finland. | 15:03 |
| Mikaela | pwr22, https://github.com/HS-Datadesk/koronavirus-avoindata/blob/master/README.md#direct-interface-to-hs-data | 15:03 |
| Mikaela | that is the only one I am aware in Finland | 15:03 |
| pwr22 | Mikaela: thanks, I can process that easily enough 👍️ | 15:08 |
| docwon | https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.09320 | 15:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:09 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: 'Devastating': vicar and headteacher among latest UK coronavirus victims — from WHO at 14:09: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/PyHHDz | 15:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:20 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 350,000, Starbucks hikes pay by $3 an hour — from WHO at 14:20: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 15:24 |
| pwr22 | !cases | 15:25 |
| CovBot | In World there have been a total of 383,204 cases as of 2020-03-23 14:17:00 UTC. Of these 262,899 (68.6%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 103,682 (27.1%) have definitely recovered and 16,623 (4.3%) have died. | 15:25 |
| pwr22 | It's a bit above 350k 😟 | 15:25 |
| ubLIX | very interesting, docwon. thank you | 15:30 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +343 cases (now 383367), +9 deaths (now 16630), +12 recoveries (now 103684) 🔸 Austria: +208 cases (now 3967), +5 deaths (now 21) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Azerbaijan: +7 cases (now 72) 🔹 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 339) 🔹 Bangladesh: +2 recoveries (now 5) [... want %more?] | 15:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:34 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Hong Kong Pet dog that tested for coronavirus dies after returning from quarantine virus-free - MarketWatch — from WHO at 14:34: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/UaiUdo | 15:36 |
| LjL | Not much chat huh? Have I already banned everyone who was chatting | 15:40 |
| yuriwho | heh | 15:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:39 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: AFP news agency su Twitter: "#BREAKING European stock markets dive more than 4.0% at open… " — from WHO at 14:39: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/Q260QR | 15:43 |
| MrtnDk[m] | <HeXiLeD "tks cazzo"> Please keep the language clean, thank you. | 15:43 |
| MrtnDk[m] | <LjL "Not much chat huh? Have I alread"> Thank you. | 15:45 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "Not much chat huh? Have I alread"> People are just isolating from IRC | 15:47 |
| pwr22 | :P | 15:47 |
| Munsko1 | pwr22 theres another chat with the same topic, but they have ppl talking | 15:48 |
| MrtnDk[m] | @pwr22:shortestpath.dev: Art thou saying, that the IRC bridge is down? | 15:48 |
| LjL | MrtnDk[m]: actually we have no "clean language" policy on this channel, although gratuitous or excessive swearing remains unimpressive | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:45 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Senator Klobuchar is considered a leading contender for the Democratic Vice Presidential nomination in 2020. — from WHO at 14:45: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/36u4mi | 15:49 |
| LjL | The IRC bridge is up since I see you talking, and hopefully you see me talking | 15:49 |
| mirsal | <LjL "The IRC bridge is up since I see"> it is up indeed | 15:50 |
| pwr22 | <MrtnDk[m] "@pwr22:shortestpath.dev: Art tho"> Nope | 15:50 |
| pwr22 | It was a joke | 15:50 |
| pwr22 | <Munsko1 "Peter Roberts theres another cha"> There are now about 15 billion corona virus orientated rooms accessible by matrix | 15:51 |
| MrtnDk[m] | <LjL "Mrtn Dk: actually we have no "cl"> Hence the "please", also I don't even think I am moderator here, so I am in no position to make demands. However, most decent people don't have a problem with keeping the language clean, so I hope a friendly request will be granted in most cases. | 15:51 |
| MrtnDk[m] | <pwr22 "It was a joke "> OK. I didn't get it at all. If it is lack of context or humour on my side, that is to blame, I do not know. | 15:52 |
| pwr22 | It doesn't matter what's to blame, so no worries 🙂 | 15:53 |
| MrtnDk[m] | <pwr22 "It doesn't matter what's to blam"> Yeah, I just wish I got it. 😁 | 15:53 |
| LjL | i may also be missing something tbh, i need to read logs | 15:53 |
| pwr22 | It's really not worth checking | 15:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:51 UTC: /u/slakmehl: NYT has updated it's death trajectory charts. — from WHO at 14:51: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/zcBVEd | 15:55 |
| LjL | MrtnDk[m], well, i read my logs, apparently you brought up a word he had quoted from a video that was circulating about Italy, and *after* that, i banned him, for other reasons, so when you asked him to keep the language clean, he wasn't even here anymore... | 15:55 |
| the_owls_are_not | Does anyone actually think this is going to slow down any time soon? | 15:57 |
| LjL | define soon | 15:57 |
| AimHere | the_owls_are_not, depends where you are. If you're Italian, the death rate is probably peaking | 15:57 |
| MrtnDk[m] | <LjL "Mrtn Dk, well, i read my logs, a"> I didn't realise that, but I think I know the video. It is actually quite nice, but unfortunately the language is not clean. | 15:57 |
| AimHere | the_owls_are_not, if you're in the USA or Chile, not so much | 15:57 |
| LjL | AimHere, i'd wait *at least* for today's press conference before claiming that | 15:58 |
| LjL | and ideally for tomorrow's one too | 15:58 |
| AimHere | LjL, I hedged with 'probably' :) | 15:58 |
| AimHere | I could easily be wrong | 15:58 |
| MrtnDk[m] | the_owls_are_not_what_they_seem: | 15:58 |
| MrtnDk[m] | Where are you at? If you are in the Wuhan province, there seems to be a good chance of that. | 15:58 |
| LjL | well, the case rate went down before, and then back up | 15:58 |
| LjL | so i'm making nothing of one jittery day | 15:58 |
| AimHere | Yeah, though the severest lockdown measures went into place about 2 weeks ago, so now is about the time they'll be kicking in | 15:59 |
| LjL | AimHere, i still think they should have been "visible" after about one week, which is the average time for symptoms to appear... and, really, the civil protection was saying the same at the time oto | 15:59 |
| LjL | too* | 15:59 |
| LjL | then they changed it into two | 15:59 |
| ubLIX | the doubling time in Italy has been trending up for a month now | 15:59 |
| LjL | if this week keeps being bleak, will that become three? | 15:59 |
| pwr22 | UK modelling seems to suggest we could start returning to normalcy in 12 weeks assuming everything goes according to plan | 16:00 |
| the_owls_are_not | US. I feel like we have the perfect storm for this thing to explode. | 16:00 |
| pwr22 | Which is probably won't | 16:00 |
| ubLIX | is there something about the offloop doubling time plot that makes it not representative? | 16:00 |
| docwon | in hubei it took 12 days for any effect to be seen in the daily new cases | 16:00 |
| AimHere | Symptoms appear after one week, but I'm guessing Italy isn't testing at the 'symptoms' stage anymore. They're testing at the 'immediate hospitalization' stage | 16:00 |
| pwr22 | <ubLIX "the doubling time in Italy has b"> getting faster or slower? | 16:00 |
| pwr22 | Trending up meaning slowing down? | 16:00 |
| ubLIX | meaning, getting larger, ie good | 16:00 |
| LjL | ubLIX, anything that's complicatedly derived from data tends to be unreliable if the data are noisy | 16:00 |
| AimHere | The doctors in Italy won't be testing anyone who's not needing hospitalizatoin, or imminently releasable, for the most part | 16:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:56 UTC: (news): GOP Sen. Pat Toomey: New Fed action shows why the stalled coronavirus bill is 'so essential' — from WHO at 14:56: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/Xwcsc9 | 16:01 |
| ubLIX | and the data are very noisy, sure | 16:01 |
| LjL | ubLIX, if you take a 4th derivative from the data, for example, that shows... nothing | 16:01 |
| MrtnDk[m] | <JoeLlama "any materials that comes off an "> I have ordered groceries, amoung which are fresh eggs. I wonder how to disinfect them, without making them go bad faster. | 16:03 |
| euod[m] | <MrtnDk[m] "I have ordered groceries, amoung"> leave them alone for a few days? | 16:03 |
| euod[m] | if you're in north america they're already stripped of their outer protective coating, if you're in europe they're not. | 16:04 |
| AimHere | So in NA, wash them. In Europe, leave them for a while | 16:05 |
| AimHere | They keep forever in Europe so you're fine. The least perishable perishable, almost | 16:05 |
| docwon | you should always wash eggs in europe | 16:05 |
| docwon | they're not allowed to be sold washed or something | 16:05 |
| LjL | i got the "nearly pure" Aloe gel from Amazon that i wasn't really counting on arriving | 16:06 |
| AimHere | Right. That's why they keep. If you wash them when you get them, they'll go off fast | 16:06 |
| LjL | will have to see if it plays nice with alcohol | 16:06 |
| MrtnDk[m] | I know that the Novel Corona Virus can survive on a hard surface for long time. If it is on the egg shell, I would intuitively expect to last extra long, but that is an uneducated guess. | 16:06 |
| AimHere | Washing them before you're about to use them is reasonable | 16:06 |
| AimHere | MrtnDk[m], depends on the nature of the surface. Copper is a hard surface, and that kills the virus as much as any surface | 16:06 |
| euod[m] | a long time isn't that long in real scales. a few days is the upper bound of what anybody is saying. | 16:07 |
| docwon | egg is one of the most popular forms of child to eat | 16:07 |
| AimHere | MrtnDk[m], it's a case of waiting till some scientist does the research | 16:07 |
| LjL | AimHere, they definitely need to be washed, but you're right it needs to be done before use, not before storage | 16:07 |
| euod[m] | that's probably longer if you're keeping them chilled, but I don't remember if there's anything written about that. | 16:07 |
| LjL | euod[m], the truth is we don't know. the studies were on *other* coronaviruses | 16:07 |
| LjL | adopting a principle of caution isn't wrong | 16:07 |
| euod[m] | in NA it seems common to keep eggs chilled. fucking weird place. | 16:08 |
| LjL | we keep eggs chilled... | 16:08 |
| docwon | my fridge has egg holders in it | 16:08 |
| LjL | wait, what does "chilled" mean? does anyone NOT keep eggs in the fridge? | 16:08 |
| docwon | supermarkets | 16:08 |
| AimHere | LjL, the store you buy the eggs from probably doesn't. | 16:09 |
| AimHere | It's likely not necessary outside of the countries that prewash them | 16:09 |
| euod[m] | <LjL "we keep eggs chilled..."> seriously? in NL they're just on a shelf in the supermarket. | 16:09 |
| euod[m] | yep. | 16:09 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +207 cases (now 383574), +2 deaths (now 16632), +12 recoveries (now 103696) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Austria: +10 cases (now 3977) 🔹 Canada: +78 cases (now 1550), +1 deaths (now 21), +4 recoveries (now 18) 🔹 Channel Islands: +1 cases (now 36) 🔹 Chile: +3 recoveries (now 11) [... want %more?] | 16:10 |
| MrtnDk[m] | So, how many days will the Corona Vira exist in active form on the eggshell, and would it perish faster in the fridge? | 16:10 |
| euod[m] | I was most excited to find that in NL they come in packs of 7 :P | 16:10 |
| LjL | 7 O.o | 16:10 |
| LjL | we have packs of 6 here, because, well, even numbers are somewhat easier to make packaging for... | 16:10 |
| AimHere | MrtnDk[m], a) nobody knows, b) nobody knows, but probably the reverse | 16:10 |
| MrtnDk[m] | LjL : Are you in North America? | 16:10 |
| euod[m] | <MrtnDk[m] "So, how many days will the Coron"> with other viruses chilling makes them last longer, but with this one, who knows. I've been leaving my deliveries alone for 3 days minimum, but it's anybodies guess. | 16:11 |
| LjL | MrtnDk[m], no | 16:11 |
| euod[m] | <LjL "we have packs of 6 here, because"> 7 makes a round box with 1 in the center. I think it was a gimmick. | 16:11 |
| LjL | fancy | 16:11 |
| euod[m] | https://assets.classicfm.com/2017/41/classic-fm-7-egg-box-1507808500-large-article-0.jpg | 16:12 |
| MrtnDk[m] | euod : That is very interesting. Here you can get them in packs of 4, 6, 10 and 12 at least. Pastorized eggs come in a can with 11, I guess. | 16:12 |
| euod[m] | in NA they come in 6, 12 and 18. | 16:13 |
| LjL | euod[m], that is actually efficient space-wise. there's a reason why bees do it that way ; | 16:13 |
| euod[m] | yep. circles have shitty packing efficiency, | 16:14 |
| farn | Wait, do Italians keep eggs in the fridge? | 16:15 |
| farn | https://www.businessinsider.com/why-europeans-dont-refrigerate-eggs-2014-12 | 16:15 |
| farn | Now I need a world map for egg storage | 16:15 |
| bin_bash | can i offer you an egg in this trying time | 16:15 |
| LjL | euod[m], well we use rectangles. but that looks better | 16:16 |
| egravot[m] | Hello | 16:17 |
| the_owls_are_not | If you have groceries delivered try to keep them seperated from other groceries and don't use them for 3-4 days. | 16:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:15 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: CVS to hire 50,000, Surgeon General issues ominous warning — from WHO at 15:15: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 16:19 |
| euod[m] | yep, a use for a second fridge if you have one. | 16:19 |
| bin_bash | the_owls_are_not: no, just disinfect the packages | 16:19 |
| python47` | man i cannot suffer Raoult speeches | 16:20 |
| bin_bash | either wash with soap and water if possible or use disinfectant wipes or spray | 16:20 |
| bin_bash | wash fresh produce heavily | 16:20 |
| Timvde | farn: There are two shops of the same chain (do they say that in English?) in town. One of them keeps eggs in the fridge, the other one keeps them out. | 16:21 |
| euod[m] | and enjoy the fresh taste of bitterant. | 16:21 |
| bin_bash | cook all broccoli/cauliflower other heavily surfaced items | 16:21 |
| euod[m] | Timvde: that's correct english. | 16:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus* at 15:17 UTC: Coronavirus: WHO Gives Coronavirus Update LIVE - March 23rd — from WHO at 15:17: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/At8omE | 16:25 |
| LjL | does anyone still watch the WHO press conferences | 16:26 |
| ubLIX | the WHO does press conferences? | 16:27 |
| python47` | "Oil Company Shell gives 2.5 million liters of isopropyl alcohol for free to make disinfectant. Shell.nl - Mar 20 - 2020 (shell.nl)" | 16:27 |
| python47` | "A 95-Year-Old Grandmother Becomes The Oldest Woman In Italy To Recover From Coronavirus" | 16:27 |
| python47` | #uplifting | 16:27 |
| douglasjenkins | hello | 16:27 |
| python47` | ubLIX: Yes | 16:28 |
| python47` | they're touring together | 16:28 |
| LjL | python47`, well, it also means all other people of that age who got it did *not* recover | 16:28 |
| LjL | and i believe we have a fair amount of people over 95 | 16:29 |
| LjL | sorry for being the party pooper, but it's like when they smiled and said "the majority of people get it mildly!" | 16:29 |
| LjL | sure, that means 20% get it pretty darned bad, which is a lot | 16:29 |
| jiffe | LjL: where are you getting your JHU data from? github? | 16:29 |
| LjL | and that sort of attitude contributed to making people go out and not care, imo | 16:29 |
| LjL | jiffe, no, i'm getting them from the offloop.net site in the topic... which is in turn getting JHU data from github but also data from other sources | 16:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: CVS to hire 50,000, Surgeon General issues ominous warning — from WHO at 15:24: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 16:31 |
| jiffe | oh interesting, thanks | 16:32 |
| LjL | also, preventing *riots* in prison, a challenging but essential task ;( | 16:32 |
| yuriwho | interesting article here: https://time.com/5800993/quarantine-historian-italy/ | 16:32 |
| LjL | "a hunt for northern Italians who are alleged to have fled south before the latest government measures took hold" | 16:35 |
| LjL | no, no, let me get that straight | 16:35 |
| LjL | it's mostly a hunt for *originally southern* Italians who moved to the north and now fled back to their regions of origin | 16:36 |
| LjL | because, you know, as an actual northern Italian i have nowhere to flee to in the south | 16:36 |
| LjL | so if they cause clusters in those regions, it's because they're going to back to live with their families while possibly being infected | 16:36 |
| AimHere | If that's the case, the damage will have been done already, bigstyle | 16:37 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | Saw people from Vermont reporting seeing an influx of New York license plates. People trying to escape and only spreading the plague | 16:38 |
| AimHere | Depending on how hard the lockdowns happened in South Italy, ofc | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +4426 cases (now 388000), +8 deaths (now 16640), +16 recoveries (now 103712) 🔸 US: +4086 cases (now 39207), +8 deaths (now 466), +6 recoveries (now 184) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Austria: +51 cases (now 4018) 🔹 Bulgaria: +11 cases (now 201) [... want %more?] | 16:40 |
| LjL | ! | 16:42 |
| LjL | holy US | 16:42 |
| LjL | %data US | 16:42 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, US, there are 39207 cases, 466 deaths (1.2% of cases), 184 recoveries as of March 23, 15:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 16:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 15:40 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Bill in Hungary which would grant Viktor Orban increasingly dictatorial powers - including suspension of elections and the ability to imprison citizens for "spreading rumors" - fails to secure 4/5ths majority necessary to pass today, but is very likely to pass in full in one week when it will only [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xKECjI | 16:42 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, US really spiked | 16:43 |
| mefistofeles | they are testing more, also | 16:43 |
| LjL | well who thought countries like Hungary would take this emergency as an excuse to consolidate authoritarian power... | 16:43 |
| LjL | Erdogan was quite fast on the ball | 16:43 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: everybody (?) | 16:43 |
| mefistofeles | this is actually a well.known thing | 16:43 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, i'd say you're such an optimist | 16:44 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niwNTI9Nqd8 | 16:44 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, i can already agree with the initial quoted statement | 16:45 |
| LjL | this is going to act as a catalyst | 16:45 |
| LjL | for ideas that were already very much in the air | 16:45 |
| LjL | airborne, you might say | 16:45 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: ok yes, I know not everybody... but I mean, anybody that's actually interested, which sadly, is almost nobody | 16:45 |
| the_owls_are_not | I'm in the US. We have so many things going against us on this. We love our individualism, large amount of people don't trust the government, horrible eating habits, obesity. For profit health care system that has minimized supplies and workers and training. Testing situation has been terrible. Honestly our number is probably a fraction of what is really out there. | 16:46 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, the sad thing is that people like me feel like they have to endorse restrictive and invasive measures that we'd normally hate most vehemently | 16:46 |
| LjL | and while doing that, we realize they probably won't go away so easily afterwards | 16:46 |
| LjL | but as i said, there needs to be an afterwards in the first place... | 16:46 |
| LjL | the_owls_are_not, well, at least the official numbers are catching up at the fastest speed on the planet so far, afaics | 16:46 |
| LjL | Italy has a lot of things going against it, too :( | 16:47 |
| LjL | bad luck, for starters, but then also a very aging population, and we're actually not doing great on the obesity side despite some common perception... plus, lots of inter-generational contact that can't be avoided even during lockdown | 16:47 |
| pyna | that jawn going that's "how many cases per day are you seeing?" "30" "oh nice that's low. how many are you testing per day?" "30" | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | %data germany | 16:48 |
| Brainstorm | DocScrutinizer05: In all areas, Germany, there are 27289 cases, 115 deaths (0.4% of cases), 422 recoveries as of March 23, 14:34Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 16:48 |
| pyna | *going around* | 16:48 |
| LjL | pyna, having the number of total tests available on a worldwide basis would be nice | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | moin! | 16:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:46 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Economia — from WHO at 15:46: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/vAqBNK | 16:48 |
| LjL | also, of people in ICU, and other things | 16:48 |
| LjL | wait, the WHO said things... despite their press conference not having started yet according to my youtube? | 16:49 |
| the_owls_are_not | LjL: I agree with you on the restriction thing. A large portion of people in the US are not taking this seriously and I think it may lead to more government restriction. | 16:49 |
| pyna | i wonder whether the numbers arent closer to an accurate count of _that_ more than anything | 16:49 |
| pyna | (hope not, but...) | 16:49 |
| LjL | the_owls_are_not, that was the case in Italy, too, they've had to make stricter and stricter rules, and NOW perhaps they're actually enforcing them | 16:49 |
| LjL | but it's kinda late | 16:49 |
| douglasjenkins | what about splitting up families | 16:50 |
| lufer | %data argentina | 16:50 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +721 cases (now 388721), +6 deaths (now 16646) 🔸 Germany: +257 cases (now 27546) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Austria: +108 cases (now 4075) 🔹 Bulgaria: +11 cases (now 201) [... want %more?] | 16:50 |
| Brainstorm | lufer: In all areas, Argentina, there are 266 cases, 4 deaths (1.5% of cases), 27 recoveries as of March 23, 14:34Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Argentina for time series data. | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Germany seems to see a slow down in rise of new cases. IE for last 2 days it *seems* like new-cases[yesterday]==new-cases[today], maybe even going down aka smaller number today than yesterday | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is surprising early effect for the just one week old NPI measures taken. Verification of this trend expected for Wednesday | 16:53 |
| LjL | douglasjenkins, how do you split up families? apartments don't grow on trees | 16:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 15:52 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Alex Macheras su Twitter: "LIVE: United Arab Emirates will ban ALL passenger flights operated by Emirates, Etihad Airways, FlyDubai & Air Arabia — for the first time in history. #COVID19… https://t.co/J7B8bOpXhD" [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/EOuHwe | 16:54 |
| LjL | except for treehouses | 16:54 |
| redlegion | Dang. Looks like Michigan is "Shelter in place" now. | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: that's annoying me to no end. Always same fallacy that you need to forbid MORE to enforce LITTLE. When people hack WLANs despite it's forbidden, politicians make new laws that forbid tools. When people don't obey corona physical distance rules, politicians make new rules that say you must not leave home. WHY not just ENFORCE the existing rules instead of making new rules that again don't get enforced? | 16:58 |
| xionbox[m] | <DocScrutinizer05 "LjL: that's annoying me to no en"> Yes yes yes! | 16:59 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, true. but, well, at least now it feels they're doing both, at least based on the Milan webcams i can look at, since i'm not going anywhere | 16:59 |
| LjL | but they were late in doing it (both a proper lockdown, and enforcement of it) | 16:59 |
| LjL | and we will pay for that with many many more deaths in the coming weeks, before they taper off | 16:59 |
| python47` | you guys have seen chinese ambassy in france making a us conspiracy statement ? | 16:59 |
| LjL | and "weeks" is optimistic | 16:59 |
| MrtnDk[m] | DocScrutinizer05: The answer is simple. They can't. | 16:59 |
| LjL | python47`, no | 16:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:55 UTC: New York coronavirus cases surge 38% overnight to 20,875: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo estimates that up to 80% of the state's more than 19.4 million residents will get the coronavirus. — from WHO at 15:55: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/sPQKzL | 17:00 |
| LjL | MrtnDk[m], that's not true. if you write up *proper* lockdown laws, where *almost every* activity is stopped, then whoever's found in the street must provide a really valid justification. and there will be many fewer people in the streets, which means police can check the few who still are. also, they took ages before getting military people also doing checks. now they are. | 17:01 |
| python47` | https://francais.cgtn.com/n/BfJAA-cA-FcA/BcdBcA/index.html | 17:01 |
| python47` | gt link incoming | 17:01 |
| LjL | "Il a déclaré que le virus pourrait avoir circulé dans certaines parties de l'Italie avant que les gens ne soient au courant de l'épidémie en Chine. | 17:02 |
| LjL | Ces propos ont une fois de plus renforcé l'opinion de Zhong Nanshan, pneumologue chinois, qui disait : « le virus n'est pas nécessairement d'origine chinoise »." | 17:02 |
| LjL | uh, no it doesn't | 17:02 |
| LjL | it only reinforces the idea that China kept it hush hush for pretty long | 17:02 |
| python47` | here's the raw translation https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdpaste.com%2F0FG9Y5G.txt | 17:03 |
| docwon | if it can circulate in italy a long time before it's detected... why can't that be the same for china? | 17:03 |
| MrtnDk[m] | LjL : Assuming, that they did have ressources to patrol almost every street, I think that would keep them pretty occupied, and people would slowly but surely start to mistrust the authorities. | 17:03 |
| Timvde | python47`: cool, my French is still better than I expected, I understand most of it | 17:03 |
| xionbox[m] | <python47` "https://francais.cgtn.com/n/BfJA"> Damn this is really bad on the part of the Chinese embassy. It's written like an InfoWars "article" | 17:04 |
| LjL | "Mais c'est une explication douteuse : après la fermeture de la base, une série de cas de pneumonie ou des cas similaires ont été apparus aux Etats-Unis. Les départements américains les ont imputés aux cigarettes électroniques, tandis que les scientifiques affirmaient autre chose." | 17:04 |
| pwr22 | The main thing I've got from this crisis is a strong affirmation that 10% of the UK are incredibly selfish | 17:04 |
| LjL | what... now they're linking the scary e-cig pneumonias to COVID-19? | 17:04 |
| pwr22 | At least | 17:04 |
| LjL | those have been going on for... a very good while | 17:04 |
| LjL | is there ANY shred of evidence those may have been COVID? | 17:04 |
| LjL | yuriwho, ↑ | 17:04 |
| python47` | Timvde: congrats, you reached tinfoil-french :D | 17:04 |
| LjL | i don't even speak any french but i understand most of it anyway | 17:05 |
| LjL | but okay, it's not fair | 17:05 |
| bin_bash | LjL: nah there isn't | 17:05 |
| MrtnDk[m] | LjL : I don't read French, but doesn't it just compare the symptoms, without assuming any correlation? | 17:05 |
| bobfett1 | using xwhat seemed to be a China propaganda website for making an argument defending China? Not very convincing... | 17:05 |
| LjL | MrtnDk[m], the implications are quite obvious, even if partly left unstated | 17:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus* at 16:02 UTC: Coronavirus: World Health Organization Coronavirus Update March 23rd, 2020 - LIVE — from WHO at 16:02: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/1ZfakD | 17:06 |
| LjL | %tr Mais c'est une explication douteuse : après la fermeture de la base, une série de cas de pneumonie ou des cas similaires ont été apparus aux Etats-Unis. Les départements américains les ont imputés aux cigarettes électroniques, tandis que les scientifiques affirmaient autre chose. | 17:06 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, French to English: But this is a questionable explanation: after the base was closed, a series of cases of pneumonia or similar cases appeared in the United States. US departments have blamed them on electronic cigarettes, while scientists say something else. (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 17:07 |
| bin_bash | china is doing everything possible to direct the attention away from them. this indicates that there's some evidence internally that has not been leaked that this is absolutely china's fault outside of the initial coverup. either a viral marker of some kind, or something else. Or perhaps it's just because they are trying to take attention away from the coverup | 17:07 |
| LjL | WHICH scientific institution "affirm something else"? | 17:07 |
| alohaferret | prisons are easy all they have to do is increase the soy | 17:07 |
| LjL | alohaferret, ? | 17:07 |
| MrtnDk[m] | LjL : Claiming a correlation seems utterly absurd, though. | 17:08 |
| alohaferret | soy keeps them passive, theyve known it for a long time | 17:08 |
| yuriwho | LjL: this looks like standard CPC propaganda to me, mostly directed at their own citizens | 17:08 |
| docwon | and bats continue to successfully deflect blame onto anyone else | 17:08 |
| LjL | yuriwho, well, it's in French, i think most Chinese probably don't speak French :P | 17:08 |
| LjL | alohaferret, what sort of nonsense are you spouting | 17:08 |
| alohaferret | how is that nonsense | 17:08 |
| MrtnDk[m] | LjL : What is your native language? | 17:09 |
| bobfett1 | It seems to be propaganda aimed to people speaking French... | 17:09 |
| LjL | MrtnDk[m], Italian, although i've used written English for so long that on many topics i lack Italian words | 17:09 |
| bin_bash | It's clearly propoganda lol | 17:10 |
| LjL | alohaferret, how is that NOT nonsense? you made a claim, a very bold and surprising one. provide scientific evidence, or don't make it. | 17:10 |
| LjL | extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence | 17:10 |
| alohaferret | ok i'll spam evidence if you want | 17:10 |
| docwon | cazzo | 17:10 |
| LjL | that's not what i asked you to do | 17:10 |
| alohaferret | lol extraordinary that soy is a known potent goitrogen? | 17:10 |
| alohaferret | ok | 17:10 |
| LjL | docwon, now that was gratuitous. scroll up for the last time i used the word "gratuitous" | 17:10 |
| docwon | it's almost all of the italian i know | 17:11 |
| euod[m] | the thing is, if there's evidence that china is responsible for the creation of COVID-19 (ie, the original biolab stories), I don't question that it would result in the united states leveling china with nuclear strikes. | 17:11 |
| MrtnDk[m] | <docwon "it's almost all of the italian i"> It's vulgar, actually, unless I'm mistaken. | 17:11 |
| yuriwho | hmm, this is concerning: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/who-considers-airborne-precautions-for-medical-staff-after-study-shows-coronavirus-can-survive-in-air.html | 17:12 |
| LjL | it is vulgar, though very common, but in this case somewhat random | 17:12 |
| alohaferret | if you want LjL i'll give you 20 studies on estrogenicism in your pm | 17:12 |
| alohaferret | not on channel | 17:12 |
| alohaferret | but i find playing study tag vile | 17:12 |
| LjL | or you could just provide the one you find most convincing and best peer-reviewed to the channel | 17:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: CVS to hire 50,000, Surgeon General issues ominous warning — from WHO at 16:07: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 17:12 |
| euod[m] | china doesn't meaningfully have second strike capabilities, so that would just result in the death of 1.3B people. | 17:12 |
| alohaferret | it's not relevant to channel you just want to be correct | 17:12 |
| MrtnDk[m] | euod: Would be in Russia's best interest to convince them of that then, I guess. | 17:12 |
| LjL | yuriwho, oh the WHO is figuring out it's airborne after everyone reasonable has done so for about the past 30 days based on preliminary evidence and a principle of caution? | 17:13 |
| LjL | alohaferret, no, i want people in this channel not to state outlandish things as fact, unless they can provide very solid evidence for them | 17:13 |
| python47` | i feel all semi careless right now | 17:13 |
| yuriwho | LjL: it's a question of how airborne is it | 17:13 |
| python47` | as if global confinement means it peaked | 17:13 |
| python47` | yuriwho: if it was airborne the situation would be much worse wouldn't it? | 17:14 |
| alohaferret | well i have 20 studies | 17:14 |
| alohaferret | so i post them here or not | 17:14 |
| alohaferret | you are being otulandish | 17:14 |
| LjL | <LjL> or you could just provide the one you find most convincing and best peer-reviewed to the channel | 17:14 |
| euod[m] | <MrtnDk[m] "euod: Would be in Russia's best "> if there's good reason to suspect that it was bioengineered to target europeans for example, that would be enough. | 17:14 |
| alohaferret | or i could post 20 to counteract your outrageous claim | 17:14 |
| python47` | quiet people | 17:15 |
| alohaferret | but i find study tag to be vile | 17:15 |
| yuriwho | well, it relates to guidance for medical and first responders | 17:15 |
| LjL | yuriwho, and predictably, the article starts with a picture of workers disinfecting street surfaces with jets, which i still haven't gotten a very convincing explanation for | 17:15 |
| euod[m] | <MrtnDk[m] "euod: Would be in Russia's best "> the disproportionate impact on some people genetically (ie, italy) is.. sort of suspicious. but I guess explainable by random chance or other details we're not aware of. | 17:15 |
| LjL | alohaferret, post your best study, or be quieted. your choice. | 17:15 |
| yuriwho | that is a useless propaganda visual IMO LjL | 17:15 |
| MrtnDk[m] | What is the situation in Africa? The numbers seems stable, but it's that due to lack of cases or lack of testing? | 17:16 |
| alohaferret | i will pm you 20 | 17:16 |
| alohaferret | then you choose | 17:16 |
| euod[m] | alohaferret: no, post some in the channel for us all to see. | 17:16 |
| yuriwho | please post scientific studies, not news articles | 17:16 |
| LjL | yuriwho, but i'm tired of seeing those FUD-generating visuals without a thorough explanation of what they're being done for. i want governments to come out and say clearly why they are being done. they are PERVASIVE as visuals, yet, they only generate FUD when they're unexplained. many different people here have given me many different rationales that do not seem wholly convincing. has nobody actually gone to the source? | 17:17 |
| euod[m] | <MrtnDk[m] "What is the situation in Africa?"> I wouldn't expect them to be able to do significant testing, given the population size and general state of healthcare. | 17:17 |
| LjL | alohaferret, i did warn. | 17:17 |
| pwr22 | What's going on here | 17:18 |
| pwr22 | pm 20 what? | 17:18 |
| pagetelegram | https://arxiv.org/pdf/2002.03173.pdf when they checked specime again after study published, the protien disappeared. | 17:18 |
| LjL | pwr22, "studies" that would purportedly show that soy is being given to prisoners in order to make them more compliant. | 17:18 |
| LjL | i don't believe alohaferret has provided almost anything that wasn't absurd on its face since they joined the channel, so now they're quieted. | 17:18 |
| euod[m] | <MrtnDk[m] "What is the situation in Africa?"> the one impact we do know of is a strong correlation with blood group. so different countries with different compositions will naturally be impacted differently. | 17:18 |
| euod[m] | <MrtnDk[m] "What is the situation in Africa?"> O being the least impacted, A being the most impacted. similar to Malaria. there's a good breakdown here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_distribution_by_country | 17:19 |
| yuriwho | here's some good news: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.16.20036145v1 | 17:20 |
| yuriwho | %title | 17:20 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From www.medrxiv.org: The feasibility of convalescent plasma therapy in severe COVID-19 patients: a pilot study | medRxiv | 17:20 |
| euod[m] | like, chile is 85% O type, Pakistan is 29% O type. | 17:20 |
| MrtnDk[m] | euod : That is new to me. Which blood groups are exempt, and which ones are most at rsik? | 17:20 |
| euod[m] | just from that we can see there'll be a different impact. | 17:20 |
| LjL | yuriwho, last i heard from TV doctors here, they said the challenge was selecting "good" plasma that had the right amount of antibodies, as apparently good antibody tests were still somewhat lacking | 17:21 |
| euod[m] | <MrtnDk[m] "euod : That is new to me. Which "> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.11.20031096v1 < this is preprint and has a very small sample size, but the distributions match up well enough with Malaria that it seems plausible. | 17:21 |
| hereyougofascist | https://justpaste.it/2t1px | 17:22 |
| euod[m] | " CONCLUSION People with blood group A have a significantly higher risk for acquiring COVID-19 compared with non-A blood groups, whereas blood group O has a significantly lower risk for the infection compared with non-O blood groups." | 17:22 |
| AimHere | So there is a practical use for knowing one's own blood group after all | 17:23 |
| LjL | euod[m], may i ask you to use just highlighting (mentions) when you're replying to a recent message, rather than making very broad use of Matrix replies? they are incredibly annoyingly "translated" by the IRC bridge... | 17:23 |
| pagetelegram | U of M Ann Arbor is not ruling out multation by UHF, aka 5G | 17:24 |
| LjL | AimHere, you mean aside from getting emergency blood transfusions? | 17:24 |
| euod[m] | LjL: I should probably just use IRC properly. I had no idea the replies were mangled. | 17:24 |
| euod[m] | LjL: sorry. | 17:24 |
| pwr22 | I have no idea what my blood type is but I'm pretty sure it's not O | 17:24 |
| MrtnDk[m] | So 0+ and B0+ are at relative low risk? | 17:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:21 UTC: (news): Coronavirus pandemic is accelerating as cases eclipse 350,000, WHO says — from WHO at 16:21: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/EWcQi1 | 17:24 |
| AimHere | LjL, if I'm in need of an emergency blood transfusions, I'd hope the doctors actually test my blood rather than take my word for it | 17:24 |
| oriba | Global Pandemic COVID-19 RT Report: https://ncov.dxy.cn/ncovh5/view/en_pneumonia | 17:25 |
| euod[m] | BO? | 17:25 |
| LjL | AimHere, there may be a question of time. | 17:25 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %data Turkey | 17:25 |
| Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 1236 cases, 30 deaths (2.4% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 23, 15:40Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 17:25 |
| LjL | euod[m], well this is also a Matrix room, so Matrix is fine... but since it's really both, it'll be best if we all help each other | 17:26 |
| ubLIX | interesting picture: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/741FCB80B44D48CB8DE21F88AD3C89AA.png - "The dates in the horizontal axis are valid for Hubei ... The initial lags are 35 days between Italy and Hubei and 13 days between Italy and Spain. The arrows indicate the starting day for general quarantines in each region." from https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/03/covid-19-a-tale-of-three-regions.html | 17:26 |
| AimHere | LjL, seems like an incredibly rare edge-case | 17:26 |
| oriba | https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus | 17:26 |
| LjL | i am thinking of making a dedicated title bot for IRC that will be quieted on the Matrix side | 17:26 |
| euod[m] | LjL: for emergencies you kind of get away with just shoving O into people. universal donor and all that. | 17:26 |
| LjL | since people on IRC ask me for that, but if i do it, it will duplicate what Matrix clients already do | 17:26 |
| Strantrickt[m] | 31 death | 17:26 |
| oriba | https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/download-todays-data-geographic-distribution-covid-19-cases-worldwide | 17:26 |
| oriba | https://github.com/BlankerL/DXY-COVID-19-Data/blob/master/README.en.md | 17:26 |
| MrtnDk[m] | eoud: b+ even. | 17:26 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "since people on IRC ask me for t"> It's not on by default | 17:27 |
| LjL | pwr22, actually i turned it on by default now for this room (it wasn't before) | 17:27 |
| LjL | i mean, i did that a couple of days ago | 17:27 |
| oriba | https://healthmap.org/covid-19/ | 17:28 |
| pwr22 | Oh the matrix thing? | 17:28 |
| LjL | pwr22, anyway, the thing is, Matrix people will generally have a built-in way to get this, if they do want it... so the bot would duplicate it for many | 17:28 |
| euod[m] | Mrtn Dk: seems to be the implication, but I don't know how much to trust that. it looks like it will definitely factor into infection rates though, given how much variation there is in the population of different countries. some are 85%+ A+ for example. | 17:28 |
| pwr22 | I'd recommend not trying to separate the voice levels of users between matrix and IRC, because that sounds like a bad idea to me | 17:28 |
| LjL | pwr22, yes, on IRC, i've been asked to make %title something automatic | 17:28 |
| pwr22 | But matrix users can ignore the bot if needed | 17:28 |
| LjL | pwr22, i am honestly not a fan of automatic titling, but when multiple people ask, i have to admit evidently it's something others find desirable | 17:29 |
| LjL | i'd rather people just posted links with some context tbh | 17:29 |
| pwr22 | As a matrix user I don't actually care if I see a IRC title summary and a matrix one too | 17:29 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "i'd rather people just posted li"> Me too, maybe just tell them to do that | 17:29 |
| pwr22 | 😁 | 17:29 |
| LjL | maybe i will | 17:29 |
| Birrosso | 😁 | 17:29 |
| LjL | for instance oriba now posted links that are obviously COVID-relevant, but i'm not sure if they were making a specific point, or just sharing randomly | 17:30 |
| Birrosso | https://sugarspunrun.com/best-cheesecake-recipe/ | 17:30 |
| Birrosso | No title? | 17:30 |
| Birrosso | Okay, I'll stop clowning now. | 17:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York cases surge overnight, mayors ask Trump for help, CVS to hire 50,000 — from WHO at 16:24: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 17:30 |
| oriba | LjL: I just threw in some links I found... maybe some people can use it. But the healthmap has outdated data :-( | 17:32 |
| oriba | also heatmap is too slow | 17:32 |
| LjL | oriba, well, i added it to the resource page anyway, although it does already list two animated maps | 17:32 |
| LjL | maybe at some point i should review all those trackers and "prune" the ones that are less useful | 17:32 |
| oriba | LjL: on github already was a list with dashboards, someone sorted them... mayne I mentioned it yesterday | 17:33 |
| LjL | oriba, well, my list *is* on github | 17:33 |
| LjL | it just gets replicated on the link in the topic periodically | 17:33 |
| LjL | it also contains other things, not just trackers, so i'm okay with having my own | 17:34 |
| oriba | LjL: aha... which list? I meant someone put the links from github in a ordered form. | 17:34 |
| LjL | oriba, https://covid19.specops.network/ ← this, there's a github link at the bottom. it's in the channel topic. you can see it with /topic usually | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +1525 cases (now 390246), +98 deaths (now 16744), +13 recoveries (now 103725) 🔸 US: +1179 cases (now 40550), +6 deaths (now 473), +3 recoveries (now 187) 🔸 Austria: +339 cases (now 4306) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Bulgaria: +11 cases (now 201) [... want %more?] | 17:35 |
| oriba | ah ok | 17:35 |
| oriba | I thought something new | 17:35 |
| oriba | but you mentioned github... | 17:35 |
| LjL | as i said there's a github link at the bottom of it, where the list is actually maintained | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:33 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Schumer says deal is close on stimulus bill, US mayors ask for protective equipment 'now' — from WHO at 16:33: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 17:36 |
| oriba | LjL: ah ok, I thought you have your own list also on github | 17:37 |
| oriba | Ah, ljl-Link on github, I see | 17:38 |
| LjL | oriba, anyway, i'm not above stealing some tracker links from someone else's list. but i think i already have a ton, perhaps what i need is more locale-specific trackers. i don't have spain right now for instance | 17:38 |
| oriba | When I post links here, it's not to just enjoy or just to annoy you. It's to throw them in for other people. Buz ok, it's mentioned in the topic, I could look if they are already there. | 17:39 |
| LjL | oriba, links are fine, it's throwing them out without an explanation that can be offputting. sometimes it's just... i look at them, and i'm like "okay, this is a covid map, but is he just linking it because it's another covid map and it could always come useful, or is there some specific point about THIS map?" | 17:40 |
| oriba | LjL: if there is a specific point, I would mention that. | 17:41 |
| LjL | it's a signal/noise ratio matter also. some people come here and post memes. i don't want memes. but with bare URLs (at least depending on how clear the URL itself is), it becomes harder to sift through | 17:41 |
| oriba | LjL: if you want a link (I found some of the links there) from science-related library, you could look here: https://covid-19.zbmed.de/main/ | 17:42 |
| oriba | worth adding to the list, I think | 17:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:36 UTC: (news): Coronavirus pandemic is accelerating as cases eclipse 350,000, WHO says — from WHO at 16:36: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/EWcQi1 | 17:42 |
| LjL | oriba, definitely. by the way, i'm not sure if links like that one would be best placed under Science or Epidemiology, or even if that distinction makes sense in my list. yuriwho may also have some input on how i'm sorting those...? | 17:43 |
| oriba | I think science is best category | 17:45 |
| oriba | There is a literature search engine and a genome browser... | 17:45 |
| LjL | i'll place it next to nextstrain i think... but i probably put that under epidemiology. i could move both i guess | 17:46 |
| LjL | also perhaps Epidemiology should be more like a subsection of Science anyway | 17:47 |
| pyna | looks like tump forgot the pandemic is serious again | 17:48 |
| oriba | "Multiple sequence alignments and phylogentic trees" dows not sound like epidemiology | 17:48 |
| oriba | LjL: "Multiple sequence alignments and phylogentic trees" dows not sound like epidemiology | 17:48 |
| LjL | okay | 17:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:46 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Conferenza stampa 23 marzo 2020 ore 18.00 Protezione Civile — from WHO at 16:46: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/DkxnXU | 17:48 |
| ubLIX | it is deeply regrettable that the total inadequacy of testing should prevent granular and retrospective investigation of epidemiology | 17:52 |
| oriba | LjL: this link is good for comparison of the timely behaviour of the numbers over country: https://flattenthecurve.co.nz/ | 17:54 |
| ubLIX | s/prevent/obfuscate/ | 17:54 |
| Brainstorm | ubLIX meant to say: it is deeply regrettable that the total inadequacy of testing should obfuscate granular and retrospective investigation of epidemiology | 17:54 |
| LjL | ubLIX, antibody tests should eventually provide that, i'd think... | 17:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Our COVID links* at 16:50 UTC: ljl-covid: Make Epidemiology a subsection of Science — from WHO at 16:50: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/k6ghh3 | 17:55 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +366 cases (now 390612), +6 deaths (now 16750) 🔸 US: +241 cases (now 40791), +6 deaths (now 479) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Colombia: +42 cases (now 277) 🔹 Cuba: +5 cases (now 40) 🔹 Denmark: +13 recoveries (now 14) 🔹 Haiti: +1 cases (now 6) [... want %more?] | 17:55 |
| xionbox[m] | France expects a surge of cases as they enter the second week of quarantine | 17:55 |
| xionbox[m] | It also seems like they update their numbers every other day, is that right? | 17:55 |
| LjL | oriba, hmm, i already have graphs like that (offloop.net added that option recently), but this one looks pretty clean so i'll add it | 17:56 |
| LjL | xionbox[m], not sure. maybe python476 knows | 17:56 |
| Birrosso | Why is Brainstorm unsolicitedly trying to improve people's sentences? | 17:56 |
| ubLIX | Brainstorm responds to your sed expressions | 17:56 |
| Jigsy | How else would they learn? | 17:56 |
| oriba | LjL: I thought tinwhiskers is the offloopnet-guy? Is tinwhiskers your admin-synonyme? | 17:56 |
| Birrosso | Brainstorm ur mom fat | 17:57 |
| LjL | oriba, he is the guy | 17:57 |
| Birrosso | Hmmm | 17:57 |
| LjL | Birrosso, i wouldn't say unsolicitedly | 17:57 |
| Jigsy | s/ur/Your/ | 17:57 |
| python476 | xionbox[m]: no idea, I failed to find official sources and frequent updates.. | 17:57 |
| Birrosso | OH! | 17:57 |
| Birrosso | "[17:54:42] <ubLIX> s/prevent/obfuscate/" | 17:57 |
| Birrosso | Didn't see that. | 17:57 |
| python476 | I rely on JHU/plague but it seems stuck for now | 17:57 |
| Birrosso | Carry on, carry on. | 17:57 |
| oriba | LjL: on ofllop.net tehre is no such graph. | 17:57 |
| oriba | LjL: https://flattenthecurve.co.nz/ shifts the data so that all countries have common time t_0 where they have had 100 cases | 17:58 |
| python476 | xionbox[m]: honestly I thought there would be a low increase since a week of confinement would pay off (not perfect confinement but still) | 17:58 |
| LjL | oriba, yes, there is. there is a textbox that says "0". change that to "100", hit Enter. | 17:58 |
| xionbox[m] | In this article (in French), https://lexpansion.lexpress.fr/high-tech/en-pleine-crise-du-coronavirus-les-hopitaux-de-paris-victimes-d-une-cyberattaque_2121692.html , they say that the parsi region expects many more cases this week. There are currently 665 people in ICU | 17:59 |
| Biep[m] | <euod[m] "seriously? in NL they're just on"> In Burkina Faso too - and sometimes they hatch, given the ambient temperature. | 17:59 |
| xionbox[m] | Also, f*** those guys who did a DDoS on the hospital | 18:00 |
| oriba | LjL: ah, ok. | 18:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Our COVID links* at 16:59 UTC: ljl-covid: Add flattenthecurve.co.nz — from WHO at 16:59: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/khihCh | 18:01 |
| oriba | LjL: I used 100 and no China there. I used 1000 and china pops up...hmhhh | 18:02 |
| LjL | oriba, yes, that's a known glitch, China's data begin after 100 cases were already reached, so you must go higher to see them | 18:02 |
| LjL | uh oh civil protection conference time | 18:03 |
| LjL | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkCOly1D2yo should have it "shortly" | 18:04 |
| Birrosso | Are Italians punctual? | 18:04 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +1358 cases (now 391970), +5 deaths (now 16755) 🔸 Germany: +1226 cases (now 28784), +1 deaths (now 116) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Brazil: +9 cases (now 1629) 🔹 Cambodia: +1 cases (now 87) 🔹 Colombia: +42 cases (now 277) [... want %more?] | 18:05 |
| Birrosso | %cases | 18:05 |
| Brainstorm | Birrosso: In all areas, World, there are 391970 cases, 16755 deaths (4.3% of cases), 103725 recoveries as of March 23, 17:01Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. | 18:05 |
| LjL | Birrosso, no, these press conferences are almost always late | 18:06 |
| LjL | except when i forget about them | 18:06 |
| LjL | then they are on time, and i'm not | 18:06 |
| xionbox[m] | Crazy how the number of cases in Germany has blown through the official cases in France | 18:06 |
| pwr22 | Looks like the UK press conferance is delayed | 18:06 |
| LjL | pwr22, they could have the decency of not having it at the same hour as italy! | 18:06 |
| LjL | although i guess there's more than 24 countries with this ;( | 18:06 |
| oriba | OK, I have a cold now... :-( | 18:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Our COVID links* at 17:01 UTC: ljl-covid: Re-add Google tracker I mistakenly removed — from WHO at 17:01: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/pTXQjK | 18:07 |
| pwr22 | LjL: Shoot, Italy death rate is creeping up to 10%? | 18:07 |
| LjL | pwr22, it's already past that | 18:08 |
| LjL | we don't have today's numbers yet i think | 18:08 |
| LjL | %cases italy | 18:08 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Italy, there are 59138 cases, 5476 deaths (9.3% of cases), 7024 recoveries as of March 23, 16:46Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 18:08 |
| LjL | ah, then i guess it's not | 18:08 |
| LjL | but i think yesterday it passed 10%, not sure which numbers these are now | 18:08 |
| LjL | the official numbers are announced in the PC i am about to watch | 18:08 |
| LjL | %cases Lombardia | 18:08 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Lombardia, Italy, there are 27206 cases, 3456 deaths (12.7% of cases), 5865 recoveries as of March 22, 16:00Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardia for time series data. | 18:08 |
| LjL | this is what matters to me personally ;( | 18:09 |
| pwr22 | Oh? | 18:09 |
| pwr22 | Ah | 18:09 |
| LjL | i mean... i still care about elsewhere, but this sure creeps me out | 18:10 |
| pwr22 | Germany still says hardly any deaths | 18:10 |
| pwr22 | Is Germany just not reporting them? | 18:10 |
| pwr22 | Or do they have some magic trick to keeping people alive? | 18:10 |
| LjL | --- Italy's daily Civil Protection press conference live now at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkCOly1D2yo - I'm going to translate now: | 18:11 |
| pwr22 | !cases lombardia | 18:11 |
| xionbox[m] | LjL: do you speak italian? | 18:11 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Good evening and thanks to Prof. Brusaferro, which is with me today from ISS. | 18:11 |
| LjL | Today's bulletin: | 18:11 |
| LjL | +408 recoveries, for a total of 7423 | 18:11 |
| LjL | +3780 new cases, for a total of 5418 | 18:11 |
| oriba | pwr22: germany has a lot of specialized experts for intensive care | 18:11 |
| AimHere | pwr22, the theory is that German people don't live with elderly parents, and it's currently spreading among the young | 18:11 |
| CovBot | In Lombardia, Italy there have been a total of 27,206 cases as of 2020-03-22 16:00:00 UTC. Of these 17,885 (65.7%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 5,865 (21.6%) have definitely recovered and 3,456 (12.7%) have died. | 18:11 |
| pwr22 | Yeah it's scary | 18:12 |
| AimHere | Also they have a higher incidence of ICU beds | 18:12 |
| LjL | 26522 of them are in self-isolation at home, with few symptoms, and 3204 are in ICU, which is 6% of positives. The others are in hospital. | 18:12 |
| oriba | pwr22: it may change rapidly if the ressources are overwhelmed... | 18:12 |
| LjL | We sadly register +602 new deaths. | 18:12 |
| AimHere | Deaths slightly lower than yesterday, so that's two days in a row the death count has reduced | 18:12 |
| LjL | About today's activities, we continued transferring, and moved +4 patients from Lombardy for a total of 68, of which 28 are COVID patients and 40 are other patients. | 18:12 |
| AimHere | Which is encouraging | 18:12 |
| LjL | I want to highlight that Germany received the first two patients who are leaving now, and they will be taking 8 positive patients, which highlights how important international solidarity is. | 18:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana at 17:10 UTC: MINISTERO DELLE INFRASTRUTTURE E DEI TRASPORTI - DECRETO 11 marzo 2020: Proroga dei permessi provvisori di guida, rilasciati ai sensidell'articolo 59 della legge 29 luglio 2010, n. 120, a causadell'emergenza epidemiologica da COVID-19. (20A01772) [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/sM8s32 | 18:13 |
| xrogaan | Google released its thing: https://www.google.com/covid19/ | 18:13 |
| oriba | pwr22: at the moment germany has ressources to help some italian patients | 18:13 |
| LjL | Another type of solidarity I want to highlight is that of Italians, who sent us more than 25 million euros, in few days since we opened our bank account for donations, which will be for acquiring medical equipment. | 18:13 |
| LjL | This will enhance our capacity to limit the epidemic. | 18:13 |
| LjL | I also want to thanks the many countries that have contributed to our country's activities, particularly the Russian Federation, the PRC, Cuba, France and Germany, who provided us with manpower and equipment. | 18:14 |
| LjL | This is the result of relationship that the Civil Protection system has, and I want to remind you that we have a relationship for several decades with Russia; we intervened in 2003 when there was a terror attacks, as well as in the 2010 fires. | 18:14 |
| LjL | With many of these countries, we've exchanged protocols and experiences, and we continue providing assistance in case of emergency. | 18:15 |
| xionbox[m] | <xrogaan "Google released its thing: https"> Seems useful to get resources for personal care | 18:15 |
| xrogaan | heh :) | 18:15 |
| LjL | I want to note that there was an earthquake in Croatia/Slovenia yesterday, and we are sending aid, which means our Civil Protection system is still working in solidarity even during this time. | 18:15 |
| LjL | I'll end here and let Prof. Brusaferro speak. | 18:15 |
| yuriwho | https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/23/fogging-the-air | 18:16 |
| LjL | (Brusaferro). Good evening. Some considerations: you can find the infographic we make on a daily basis on our site, which synthesizes the distribution of cases as well as the epidemiology of what's happening, and agian, this bulletin is released twice a week. | 18:16 |
| LjL | Today, we can say that, first, this is a very important week for us, to gauge the trends of the curves, which we are all watching with the utmost attention. This attention must also remind us that the highest contribution to those curves is from the highly infected northern regions, and our effort at this time is to prevent the curves in the south reproducing this trend. | 18:17 |
| LjL | So when we look at Italy's data, we must look with attention: the highest contribution now is from Lombardy, Piedmont and Emilia-Romagna, but other regions, while being lower in numbers, represent a bet for us: not creating more of those curves there. | 18:18 |
| LjL | Secondly, I'd like to mention the importance for our measures to be articulated as two broad parts: the first is the way we look, at every day, at treatments in hospitals, in ICUs especially, whcih are very strained in some regions, and we will never stop thanking all the medical personnel. | 18:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:15 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Aggiornamento numero di contagi in Italia 23 Marzo — from WHO at 17:15: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/Njt5LD | 18:19 |
| LjL | But i'd like to emphasize the territorial aspect, or rather the household aspect: to let the curve, hopefully, as soon as possible, go down again, we definitely require social distancing measures, but can't avoid positives or presumed positive people HAVING to stay isolated to prevent passing on the infection. | 18:20 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +4814 cases (now 396784), +602 deaths (now 17357), +407 recoveries (now 104132) 🔸 Italy: +4790 cases (now 63928), +602 deaths (now 6078), +408 recoveries (now 7432) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Brazil: +9 cases (now 1629) [... want %more?] | 18:20 |
| LjL | In the past few days, we always say that even tragic events like deaths or intensive care events, they happen after a certain amount of time: infection, then one week of symptoms, then this. | 18:20 |
| aradesh | hi guys | 18:20 |
| LjL | What we must do today to avoid having in 15 or 20 days this large number of cases is to stop the positive people, and the suspected positives, from transmitting the disease. | 18:20 |
| LjL | Without this, no ICU beds will ever be enough. | 18:20 |
| LjL | They can only work if the numbers are limited somewhat. | 18:21 |
| LjL | My third thought is that, as many of you mentioned, we started an appeal call, brief but extremely important, which tries to identify all potential technologies (IT, tele-medicine, etc) that may help support this. | 18:21 |
| LjL | This is a very important event, and it's also a crucial passage to gather ideas and develop important technologies. | 18:22 |
| LjL | It's important from the health aspect, but also the support in a difficult phase, where people are confined inside their homes, and there is a very important aspect about creating interconnections, social relationships even during this phase of limitation of movement. | 18:22 |
| LjL | I think Borrelli would agree with me in the certainty that our Italian companies, our software designers, our ISPs, our young startups, will develop creatively on this challenge. | 18:23 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Thank you. Any questions? | 18:23 |
| LjL | Question: today is the second day where both the new cases and deaths go down. How many days will it take to be able to speak of a trend? If the measures taken by the government, whcih the northern governors are criticizing as not harsh enough, but they are what the scientific committee asked for. Did you want more stringent ones? | 18:23 |
| LjL | Answer: On trends, the more consecutive data points confirm a trend, the more confident we can be. But I am not able to confirm or deny that there is a trend right now. We can only take note of the fact that we are now seeing effects from two weeks ago. | 18:24 |
| LjL | Restrictive measures taken more recently may reduce even more social interactions, but we'll see the effect of these later. | 18:25 |
| LjL | The data we see today is certainly not from THOSE measures. | 18:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Schumer says deal is close on stimulus bill, US mayors ask for protective equipment 'now' — from WHO at 17:22: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/yJCSF9 | 18:25 |
| LjL | I cannot speak in a manner... about the scientific committee, but they substantially claim that social distancing measures are the appropriate ones to reduce circulation of the virus. I'll say this transparently and openly. | 18:25 |
| LjL | [and didn't answer] | 18:25 |
| LjL | Question: Prof Brusaferro said that the first thing to do is for symtpmatics to stop infecting others. Aside from what citizens can do, we know that many people are still moving from north to south etc... can we adopt the "Korean method"? GPS, tracking of people? But also, shouldn't we test contacts of possible positives? | 18:26 |
| LjL | Answer: We are in a new situation, and we can see that also from how all other countries, G7 G8 countries too, are reacting in similar though distinct ways. | 18:26 |
| LjL | We may adopt multiple solutions; we are all studying them, as well as the evolution in what is happening, while keeping in mind quality of life is important. | 18:27 |
| LjL | We must have, on the one hand, rigorous social distancing, but on the other, keep it sustainable for people. | 18:27 |
| LjL | We must study and contextualize all the options: we have certain juridical options in our country, certain degree of freedoms, and so we must evaluate solutions that match our values: on the one hand, keep them up, on the other, guarantee the utmost efficacy of social distancing. | 18:28 |
| LjL | This is the challenge, and I think we can find solutions, there needs to be some "Italian genius" in finding solutions that are fit for this. | 18:28 |
| LjL | I wanted to emphasize in my introduction this is an extremely important moment, that with our research, technology, companies, we can find and offer opportunities in an exceptional situation. | 18:28 |
| LjL | Question: Again for the professor: WHO is talking about an acceleratic pandemic. We want to understand how this concerns us as well, and if it may cause further measures? And about this mysterious drug, there's confusion on what Fujifilm claims, we have a few doubts, there needs to be an accurate trial, and how could this drug be used in Italy? | 18:29 |
| LjL | Answer: as to the second question, our AIFA pharma agency has a very high profile, and they immediately showed tranparently all the experimentations we're doing. | 18:30 |
| LjL | There are many proposals for experimentation, not just that drug, some of these will hopefully show efficacy, while others will inevitably not prove superior to placebo. | 18:30 |
| pwr22 | Breaking news from Bristol UK (where I live) | 18:30 |
| pwr22 | Parks are closed | 18:30 |
| LjL | Without getting into any single drugs, some information on anti-hypertensive drugs, including from research done in Italy, we are starting to get valuable information on them | 18:30 |
| LjL | It's important to experiment, to be transparent in it (everyone can go to the AIFA site and see it), and share this with the rest of the world. | 18:31 |
| pwr22 | That's a pain | 18:31 |
| LjL | Italian experimentation is leading now in the G8 context, and hopefully we can provide useful therapeutic information to other countries to. | 18:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:29 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Aggiornamento numero di contagi in Italia 23 Marzo** — from WHO at 17:29: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/6P1tml | 18:31 |
| LjL | So as to your question: we've said Italy is leading, somewhat unfortunately, we have this sitaution... other European countries would follow, and they are following now. The curves will vary depending on their ability to adopt restrictive measures. | 18:31 |
| LjL | The mechanisms of this infection involve having to socially distance. | 18:32 |
| LjL | But when these epidemics hit countries with tens of million people, the curve can only grow. | 18:32 |
| LjL | If it hits the US, the UK, etc... it's obvious that, globally, the numbers will rise. | 18:32 |
| LjL | As you also noted, it's clear that this "slip" of curves brings us back to how global this challenge is: | 18:32 |
| LjL | we may end up getting over our curve, while other countries are still in the middle of it. | 18:32 |
| LjL | China is facing this now: they expect a flattening of their curve, but must provide for mechanisms to avoid being infected back. | 18:33 |
| LjL | The best solution, long-term, to avoid further infection is having an immune population. | 18:33 |
| LjL | Slowing down the curves means providing people with adequate medical help, but also giving time to our companies and industry to provide therapies and ultimately vaccines, to stop the virus completely, by immunizing the world population, not just the Italian population. | 18:33 |
| LjL | Question: Good evening. Thanks for keeping up this democratic space where we can ask questions, thank you. About the south: we are 15 days after the infamoous 7-8 March when people panicked and moved to other regions, and the numbers there are still somewhat limited. What's your analysis of the growth of cases there? And at what stage are the healthcare structures especially in Puglia, Calabria and Sicily? Have ICU beds have time to be enhanced for the | 18:35 |
| LjL | emergency? And about the "call", are you working with the Privacy Authority? | 18:35 |
| LjL | Question: tarting from the last thing, yes, the Ministers have agreed on this action, and the Privacy Authority will help with some solutions, less so with others. | 18:35 |
| LjL | The call to solution is open, available on the web, and if you're talking... yes, they're on the site of the Ministry for Innovation. | 18:36 |
| LjL | Privacy is important, and it is involved, but it will depends on the product we eventually select. | 18:36 |
| LjL | The South is the other thing. The south, today, is showing data where the curve is not peaking yet. That's comforting on the one hand, but on the other hand, I must express my worry, I saw local newspapers from the south today, and they showed streets full of people, situations that we just don't see in other contexts. | 18:36 |
| LjL | I don't know if those were isolated episodes, I just saw some pictures... can't be a reliable witness. However, if rigorous behaviors, unified in the whole of the countries, not north or south or center or islands, we're all on the same boat... | 18:37 |
| LjL | I believe there can be a concrete possibility, and this is our bet on adopting country-wide measures, that curves won't start going up. | 18:37 |
| LjL | But if we aren't careful and strict, well, the epidemic won't change just due to latitude. | 18:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 17:35 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global death toll passes 15,000 as WHO warns spread of virus is accelerating: UK coronavirus live updates US coronavirus latest updates ‘This is not a film’: Italian mayors rage at lockdown dodgers Bolsonaro claims coronavirus crisis a media trick See all of our coronavirus coverage [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bEuiim | 18:38 |
| LjL | We are the deciders of how the curve will go in the next days. | 18:38 |
| LjL | It is not a geography-specific problem, the virus doesn't care about latitude, it just infects from person to person. | 18:38 |
| LjL | In any region, with must increase social distance to avoid transmission. | 18:38 |
| LjL | These data must not reassure us, they must not give us delusions, we must be careful and rigorous. | 18:38 |
| LjL | The curve represents in a timely manner our own behaviors. | 18:39 |
| LjL | About the healthcare structures in the south, they are continuously enhancing ICU and sub-ICU sections, and every day the result improves, thanks to the work of emergency commissioner Arcuri, who is also acquiring ventilators, which are the limiting factor. | 18:39 |
| LjL | We are adding new beds in pulmonology and intensive care units. | 18:39 |
| LjL | We will empower the south with abilities to contrast the virus. | 18:39 |
| LjL | Question: in the light of the latest news of people infected in the Roma camp in Rome... does the Civil Protection have a plan to prevent contagion in those places? | 18:40 |
| LjL | Answer: The Rome Civil Protection and the region of Latium are working on this: we said there is a plan for homeless people, and for people who don't have a place to stay quarantined in, and we are available to support any local initiative to provide more of these places. | 18:41 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %data Turkey | 18:42 |
| Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 1236 cases, 30 deaths (2.4% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 23, 17:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 18:42 |
| LjL | Question: vice-Minister Sileri today highlighted that people die from COVID not just in ICU beds, but also, without being ABLE to reach ICU beds, and his proposal is to have the people with symptoms not in self-isolation at home, but in specialized structures where they can be properly assisted. This may not be possible given the numbers, but can we possibly provide better protection for people with symptoms who must stay home and cannot always talk to a | 18:42 |
| LjL | doctor? Do you have data on people who died at HOME from the virus? | 18:42 |
| LjL | Answer: About the second thing, the data point we have is about people who died after testing positive. Whether they died at home, in a nursing home or in hospital, anyone who dies after a positive test ends in the COVID deaths number. | 18:42 |
| LjL | Question: is there data on how many victims died without reaching a hospital? | 18:42 |
| LjL | Answer: No, personally I don't have that data, but we are working with ISTAT to cross data, as data from homes are harder to obtain, it's more complex, but we're working on it. | 18:43 |
| LjL | On the other part, vice-minister Sileri highlighted an important problem: since the beginning, the Civil Protection provided structures where anyone who cannot stay home, or the situation is critical, where these people can do their quarantine or isolation. | 18:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:38 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Olympics 2020 postponed: IOC member says coronavirus forces change — from WHO at 17:38: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/uUFmbI | 18:44 |
| LjL | This is an important element. The other thing is that in the regions where there is high virus circulation, we are creating solutions of tele-medicine to monitor some parameters, and stay in contact with these people, so that even when the symptoms are mild, they can be monitored and quickly "intercepted" if they become more serious. | 18:44 |
| LjL | We are doing this based on the experience of the northern regions, but there is an effort from everybody, doctors, nurses, technology people, so that a set of tool can be useful. | 18:44 |
| LjL | Hospitals are important, but this type of thing must also work well. Our battle is won on the territory, not just in hospitals. | 18:45 |
| LjL | The big battle is to intercept people before they get as bad as having to be in hospital. | 18:45 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Thanks, and good evening. | 18:45 |
| LjL | --- end | 18:45 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: couldn't pay attention today, do you mind a tl;dr vesion of it? or somebody can do it? :) | 18:46 |
| mefistofeles | sorry | 18:46 |
| LjL | xionbox[m], i do believe i speak italian, hopefully i proved it too :P | 18:46 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: still to be seen | 18:46 |
| mefistofeles | xD | 18:46 |
| aradesh | i'm pleased to see italy's death count is again less than it was yesterday | 18:46 |
| aradesh | deltas of the last four days have been: 627, 793, 651, 601 | 18:47 |
| mefistofeles | ah nice | 18:47 |
| pwr22 | UK conference is cancelled today due to a cobra meeting | 18:47 |
| LjL | yeah... let's hope it doesn't float back up, and the next few days can confirm the trend | 18:47 |
| LjL | i'm not hopeful for now | 18:47 |
| mefistofeles | pwr22: cobra meeting? | 18:47 |
| LjL | %wik COBRA meeting | 18:47 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: The Cabinet Office Briefing Rooms (COBR) are meeting rooms in the Cabinet Office in London. These rooms are used for committees which co-ordinate the actions of government bodies in response to national or regional crisis, or during overseas events with major implications for the UK. It is [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_Office_Briefing_Rooms | 18:47 |
| pwr22 | I can only assume they must be planning something big in there - potentially forced lockdown? | 18:47 |
| LjL | pwr22, let us know if you have some early rumors | 18:48 |
| pwr22 | Will do but nothing so far | 18:48 |
| mefistofeles | pwr22: I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case | 18:48 |
| mefistofeles | I am surprised it's not the case for Germany, though | 18:48 |
| mefistofeles | (so far) | 18:49 |
| LjL | My transcription/translation of today's Civil Protection press conference in Italy: https://dpaste.org/yiQz | 18:50 |
| mefistofeles | thaks | 18:51 |
| mefistofeles | thx bro! | 18:51 |
| mefistofeles | xD | 18:51 |
| Clovis | LjL, thanks v much for translation, very helpful | 18:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 17:48 UTC: UK news: IMF warns Covid-19 recession could be worse than financial crisis - business live — from WHO at 17:48: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/lOM7C5 | 18:56 |
| MinceR | hi | 18:57 |
| LjL | yuriwho, https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/23/fogging-the-air concentrates on effects on *the air*, but i always got the impression they were more like shooting towards street surfaces, walls, sometimes even road signs | 19:00 |
| LjL | i guess despite not being a huge fan of Google, https://www.google.com/covid19/ will have to be placed prominently on the resources page, thanks xrogaan | 19:02 |
| LjL | (i don't ignore things that are said while i'm translating, i do try to look at them afterwards) | 19:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:57 UTC: Boeing plans two-week shutdown of factories in Seattle area because of coronavirus: Boeing is planning to shutdown production of Puget Sound area facilities where it makes wide-body aircraft due to the outbreak of coronavirus. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/I0PfsK | 19:02 |
| xrogaan | 'night | 19:04 |
| yuriwho | LjL: heres the paper Derek references in that blog post: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19822378 | 19:04 |
| yuriwho | %title | 19:04 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Inactivating influenza viruses on surfaces using hydrogen peroxide or triethylene glycol at low vapor concentrations. - PubMed - NCBI | 19:04 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +2790 cases (now 399574), +23 deaths (now 17380), +4 recoveries (now 104136) 🔸 United Kingdom: +813 cases (now 6650) 🔸 United Kingdom: +813 cases (now 6650) 🔸 US: +592 cases (now 41433), +18 deaths (now 501) 🔸 Veneto, Italy: +383 cases (now 5505), +23 deaths (now 192), +18 recoveries (now 327) [... want %more?] | 19:05 |
| nichos[m] | <LjL "i guess despite not being a huge"> I'm not a huge fan of bing, but they've done a much better job than google: https://bing.com/covid | 19:06 |
| LjL | ah | 19:08 |
| LjL | hmm well this looks more like just a tracker though | 19:08 |
| LjL | the google page is more of a portal | 19:08 |
| farn | "You can protect yourself by washing your hands frequently, avoiding touching your face, and avoiding close contact (1 meter or 3 feet) with people who are unwell." That makes it sound like you just need to avoid contact with people who are visibly sick :/ | 19:09 |
| bin_bash | 2 meters, really | 19:10 |
| bin_bash | 2 meters from all people | 19:10 |
| LjL | i don't know why they insist with 1m in Italy | 19:10 |
| LjL | that seems *so* low | 19:10 |
| LjL | even if they do it because they expect people won't accept something higher, it's still not okay | 19:11 |
| tinwhiskers | Strictly speaking you do only need to avoid unwell people :-/ | 19:11 |
| bin_bash | because italians are so used to not having personal space that 1 meter seems egregious? | 19:11 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, sure, strictly speaking if i had a gaydar i'd know who i can ask out for a date, too | 19:11 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: and also well people in case you're a carrier | 19:11 |
| farn | If I carry the virus and show no symptoms whatsoever, am I really unwell? | 19:11 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: yes you do need to avoid everyone | 19:11 |
| bin_bash | farn: yes | 19:12 |
| farn | But my body is handling it just fine! | 19:12 |
| LjL | farn, for the time being | 19:12 |
| LjL | and we don't know what damage may be occurring, really | 19:12 |
| farn | Sure, for the time being I'm well. | 19:12 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: | 19:13 |
| rajrajraj | Hi | 19:13 |
| rajrajraj | Yer here too | 19:13 |
| LjL | rajrajraj, | 19:13 |
| LjL | I | 19:13 |
| LjL | definitely | 19:13 |
| LjL | am | 19:13 |
| oriba | since cw 40/2019 265 death by influenza in germany. currently 94 death by covid-19 in germany. But I would guess, that covid-19 will overtake in a while, even with a slowdown. | 19:13 |
| tinwhiskers | farn: have you been tested positive? | 19:13 |
| JoeLlama | moo LjL how are you are you healthy today? | 19:14 |
| LjL | JoeLlama, okay as far as i know | 19:14 |
| JoeLlama | yay! :) | 19:14 |
| JoeLlama | I am stuck @ home :/ like most others | 19:14 |
| farn | tinwhiskers: Sorry, this was hypothetical. I'm just saying that "unwell" (from that Google page) isn't a very good description for "carries the virus" especially since we can't know that for sure. | 19:14 |
| rajrajraj | Today a person came coughing to my house. My father had let him in and his excuse was that he got checked by temperature machine outside. | 19:14 |
| AimHere | oriba, Germany is the one country in the world with an anomalously low covid-19 death rate. Most other major-hit places have death rates about five times as high | 19:15 |
| tinwhiskers | farn: oh. Ok | 19:15 |
| JoeLlama | oOo I am going to post a quiz if it' | 19:15 |
| JoeLlama | it's okay :) | 19:15 |
| oriba | AimHere: yes, I know. It my change rapidly in the future... not sure | 19:15 |
| LjL | JoeLlama, uh if it's relevant and you don't have to flood the channel to do it, then sure :P | 19:15 |
| JoeLlama | why yes it is relevant to this channel but not the virus... I am curious about the people attracted to this channel: http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php | 19:16 |
| farn | tinwhiskers: As for me personally, I've had mild symptoms for a week but there's no way I'm going to get tested because I haven't had contact with anyone tested positive that I know of. | 19:16 |
| LjL | AimHere, well, south korea was about as low, now it's higher... it needs time to show its ugly face | 19:17 |
| farn | tinwhiskers: (I also haven't left the house in a week.) | 19:17 |
| LjL | JoeLlama, err, i'm not entirely sure if appropriate, but okay | 19:17 |
| JoeLlama | thanks LjL | 19:17 |
| JoeLlama | and also remember my little trick that I have been using forever.... I hold my breath when I walk by people and also when I walk where other people have walked | 19:18 |
| JoeLlama | it seems to work | 19:18 |
| JoeLlama | at least.... seems to have worked for me over the years | 19:18 |
| JoeLlama | it's not a double blind study but | 19:18 |
| JoeLlama | when I started doing that I got much less sick | 19:18 |
| Arsanerit | I found this a useful visualisation (minus the caveat of testing bias in all countries except Iceland): https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest | 19:18 |
| JoeLlama | hold your breath (: | 19:19 |
| JoeLlama | hi Arsanerit | 19:19 |
| Arsanerit | Hello Joe | 19:19 |
| JoeLlama | listen to Arsanerit he is a atmospheric scientist or something | 19:19 |
| JoeLlama | hi hi | 19:19 |
| JoeLlama | (true) | 19:19 |
| JoeLlama | Arsanerit = smart | 19:19 |
| tinwhiskers | JoeLlama: You're not particularly likely to catch it outdoors anyway | 19:19 |
| JoeLlama | heh | 19:19 |
| Joe | what?? | 19:19 |
| tinwhiskers | JoeLlama: indoors you can't find your breath forever | 19:19 |
| JoeLlama | yes tinwhiskers but I spend a LOT of tiem indoors | 19:19 |
| JoeLlama | yeah :/ | 19:20 |
| tinwhiskers | *hold | 19:20 |
| Joe | oh the other non joe, joe | 19:20 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +6577 cases (now 406151), +377 deaths (now 17757) 🔸 France: +3167 cases (now 19856), +186 deaths (now 860) 🔸 France: +3167 cases (now 19856), +186 deaths (now 860) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) [... want %more?] | 19:20 |
| farn | Arsanerit: What's special about Iceland? | 19:20 |
| JoeLlama | yes the other joe :) hi joe | 19:20 |
| Arsanerit | Joe: I addressed JoeLlama as Joe. Hadn't realised there was a user with the nickname Joe here. Apologies for the false highlight. | 19:20 |
| Joe | o/ hi joe | 19:20 |
| JoeLlama | sorry about your window flashing when I am here :( | 19:20 |
| AimHere | farn, Iceland and Faroe are testing a higher proportion of the population than most | 19:20 |
| Arsanerit | farn: They tested a random sample of 1.5% of the population. | 19:20 |
| JoeLlama | hi hi (: | 19:20 |
| farn | I see, cool | 19:20 |
| JoeLlama | I moo sometimes too | 19:20 |
| JoeLlama | moo | 19:20 |
| Arsanerit | Random sample is key here; all (?) other countries only test suspected cases or already sick people. | 19:20 |
| JoeLlama | I will try to keep that to a minimum | 19:21 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, those "let's see what it looks like when we make all countries start from 100 cases" graphs are becoming real popular | 19:21 |
| JoeLlama | yes yes what is it that you do for a living Arsanerit? | 19:21 |
| tinwhiskers | JoeLlama: indoors, unless there is good air flow an entire room of contaminated from a single cough. Holding your breath might make you feel better about it but isn't really going to do much. | 19:21 |
| Arsanerit | I work for the Deutscher Wetterdienst to prepare for Meteosat Third Generation, the next generation European geostationary weather satellites. Those will be launched in the early '20s. Among other things, we're working to improve detection of fog and lightning. | 19:21 |
| JoeLlama | I know it was slightly confusing to me | 19:21 |
| JoeLlama | wow | 19:21 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: That, and logarithmic axes. | 19:21 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, i think there are restrospective studies, at least one or two, one from China, to try to determine the *real* prevalence. but i don't think they are based on a genuinely random sample. | 19:21 |
| LjL | %cases Iceland | 19:22 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Iceland, there are 588 cases, 1 deaths (0.2% of cases), 51 recoveries as of March 23, 17:44Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Iceland for time series data. | 19:22 |
| JoeLlama | https://www.dwd.de/DE/Home/home_node.html | 19:22 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: It must be difficult to do those studies knowing the samples aren't representative. | 19:22 |
| JoeLlama | wow Arsanerit I didn't know that | 19:22 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, yes, but they have their own voodoo mathsy ways that i don't understand | 19:22 |
| JoeLlama | I can't read it :( | 19:22 |
| Arsanerit | JoeLlama: there's an English language page, but it's just the German weather service. Like NOAA or Met Office but for Germany. | 19:22 |
| JoeLlama | the oil market crashed and the guys who run those markets are REALLY smart and that scares me they are literally dumping oil in an oil war :( | 19:23 |
| JoeLlama | you will be able to fill up at the pump MUCH cheaper over time but it is NOT good for us :( | 19:23 |
| JoeLlama | nope | 19:23 |
| JoeLlama | oh ok Arsanerit | 19:23 |
| Arsanerit | literally dumping oil? that should be an environmental crime | 19:23 |
| JoeLlama | I look | 19:23 |
| LjL | i'm not sure they mean literally, no | 19:23 |
| LjL | "dumping" is a markets term | 19:23 |
| JoeLlama | oh ok Arsanerit: https://www.dwd.de/EN/Home/home_node.html | 19:24 |
| JoeLlama | neato | 19:24 |
| JoeLlama | no market dumping Arsanerit :P | 19:25 |
| JoeLlama | silly | 19:25 |
| JoeLlama | when the oil nerds start dumping oil on the market like this it's seroius as far as the economy | 19:25 |
| JoeLlama | literally, the virus will make people sick and kill a few but the damage to the economy scrares me WAY more than the virus iteself | 19:26 |
| Arsanerit | JoeLlama: then it's not literal dumping | 19:26 |
| JoeLlama | yes Arsanerit | 19:26 |
| Arsanerit | then it's figurative dumping | 19:26 |
| JoeLlama | it's "market dumping" | 19:26 |
| JoeLlama | a trade war | 19:26 |
| Arsanerit | which is figurative not literal | 19:26 |
| JoeLlama | coronavirus hit, and two countries flinched | 19:26 |
| JoeLlama | BIG time | 19:27 |
| Arsanerit | Dutch milk farmers have been known to literally dump their milk in the ditch | 19:27 |
| JoeLlama | oh :( | 19:27 |
| Arsanerit | I don't care about the price of oil. | 19:27 |
| Arsanerit | Should I? | 19:27 |
| JoeLlama | that is sad Arsanerit especially 100% grass fed cows | 19:27 |
| JoeLlama | moo | 19:27 |
| JoeLlama | yes you should | 19:27 |
| JoeLlama | because they are dumping it meaning | 19:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 18:22 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Breaking: Nationwide lockdown announced in South Africa - CNBC Africa — from WHO at 18:22: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/umqOTN | 19:27 |
| JoeLlama | they believe the world economy is gunna tank | 19:28 |
| JoeLlama | and it is tanking :( | 19:28 |
| JoeLlama | that is the BIG worry here | 19:28 |
| JoeLlama | like I said | 19:28 |
| JoeLlama | people will get sick and a few will die but the world economy we are not prepared for this | 19:28 |
| JoeLlama | if I had 25,000 USD back when this strain of coronavirus first appeared in the news I would have taking out a number of futures contracts | 19:29 |
| JoeLlama | and be worth well over 800,000 more USD today but | 19:29 |
| JoeLlama | I have no 25K USD | 19:29 |
| JoeLlama | and also the market actually took much longer to react to the news than I had ever thought | 19:30 |
| JoeLlama | ok I get off my soapbox now | 19:30 |
| JoeLlama | so enjoy the gas prices while they last | 19:30 |
| LjL | berndj, ↑ Brainstorm | 19:30 |
| JoeLlama | but it's really notta good thing | 19:30 |
| JoeLlama | oOo I like that arrow I steal it | 19:30 |
| JoeLlama | oOo and I look up | 19:31 |
| JoeLlama | ↑ | 19:31 |
| LjL | i have it on my keyboard with altgr+shift+u | 19:31 |
| LjL | ←↑↓→ | 19:31 |
| JoeLlama | neato! | 19:31 |
| JoeLlama | I steal them all (: | 19:31 |
| JoeLlama | ←↑↓→ | 19:32 |
| JoeLlama | all your base are belong to me | 19:32 |
| Arsanerit | JoeLlama: are you more worried about your money than about the prospect of 10-50 million people dying? | 19:33 |
| JoeLlama | sure glad I have lotsa liquor, cheese, and crackers | 19:33 |
| Arsanerit | I have never enjoyed any gas price. | 19:33 |
| JoeLlama | no no Arsanerit I worry first about people dying hopefully not that many | 19:33 |
| JoeLlama | but I worry more about all the people who will suffer and even die in the future from the economy crashing | 19:34 |
| Arsanerit | JoeLlama: without extreme measures, it will be that many https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca | 19:34 |
| JoeLlama | believe it or not, the economy crashing would impact peoples well being very VERY significantly | 19:34 |
| JoeLlama | people are becoming homeless at an intense rate now | 19:34 |
| JoeLlama | and people are losing jobs left and right | 19:34 |
| JoeLlama | 120,000 jobs lost in the movie industry alone now | 19:35 |
| JoeLlama | gone! | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +319 cases (now 406470), +1 deaths (now 17758), +304 recoveries (now 104440) 🔸 Canada: +302 recoveries (now 320) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Bahrain: +38 cases (now 377), +4 recoveries (now 164) 🔹 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +1 cases (now 131) [... want %more?] | 19:35 |
| JoeLlama | most businesses only have 27 days of money to get them through a period of no income | 19:35 |
| JoeLlama | I am back on my soapbox aren't I :( | 19:35 |
| JoeLlama | sorry but... yes it's not so much the virus that has me worried it's all those people | 19:36 |
| JoeLlama | gun sales are WAY up people are hording food (or are they?) | 19:36 |
| JoeLlama | perhaps those people are the smart ones | 19:36 |
| JoeLlama | ok ok | 19:36 |
| JoeLlama | I stop now | 19:36 |
| Arsanerit | jobs will come back | 19:36 |
| JoeLlama | but I hope you get my point | 19:36 |
| Arsanerit | people will still want to watch movies after the crisis | 19:36 |
| JoeLlama | yes they will but a LOT of companies are going to fail | 19:37 |
| Arsanerit | probably yes | 19:37 |
| JoeLlama | or even fail sooner than they would normally | 19:37 |
| JoeLlama | yes | 19:37 |
| JoeLlama | a LOT | 19:37 |
| Arsanerit | governments are trying to reduce that | 19:37 |
| JoeLlama | https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/djia | 19:37 |
| Arsanerit | EU promised a trillion euros | 19:37 |
| JoeLlama | look at that site | 19:37 |
| Arsanerit | no, I'll have dinner | 19:37 |
| JoeLlama | I hope governments get into helping people rather than helping businesses | 19:37 |
| JoeLlama | that would be one thing that comes from this that would be good maybe | 19:38 |
| JoeLlama | ok ok done | 19:38 |
| JoeLlama | how's the weather there Arsanerit? | 19:38 |
| JoeLlama | humidity kills the virus | 19:38 |
| AimHere | JoeLlama, citation needed | 19:39 |
| LjL | i thought humidity was mostly believed to *help* the virus... | 19:40 |
| JoeLlama | AimHere do your own research please.... I did | 19:40 |
| LjL | (tentatively) | 19:40 |
| JoeLlama | nothing personal | 19:40 |
| JoeLlama | 19:40 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 18:34 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Swedish national exams cancelled for all students — from WHO at 18:34: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/EZ4wcC | 19:40 |
| JoeLlama | well there have been studies done | 19:40 |
| python476 | o/ | 19:40 |
| JoeLlama | like for instance the virus stays viable on plastic and stainless steel surface for up to 71 hours | 19:40 |
| JoeLlama | and on cardboard for 1 day | 19:40 |
| AimHere | JoeLlama, yes. I read that. Said nothing about humidity | 19:40 |
| JoeLlama | but that could change | 19:40 |
| LjL | i don't think one should say things that can constitute advice for people, without providing evidence for them... | 19:41 |
| JoeLlama | hrm? supposidly the virus does worse in high humidity in air | 19:41 |
| AimHere | It's plausible that it does. | 19:41 |
| JoeLlama | ok then I will no longer advise the information I hear on news feeds and on the internet | 19:41 |
| AimHere | I was just wondering who was doign the supposing | 19:41 |
| JoeLlama | *sigh* really do I need to google this stuff up? | 19:41 |
| JoeLlama | lemme see if I can find audio blog maybe | 19:41 |
| JoeLlama | https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/14/811609026/the-new-coronavirus-can-live-on-surfaces-for-2-3-days-heres-how-to-clean-them | 19:42 |
| AimHere | JoeLlama, I read the actual paper that the surfaces thing was based on. Biorxiv or wherever | 19:43 |
| LjL | By comparison, "in the real world, conditions fluctuate" — conditions like temperature, humidity and light. So the survivability may vary, too. | 19:43 |
| LjL | that's the only part that talks about humidity that i can see... | 19:43 |
| JoeLlama | eh there are a lot more links just google okay? | 19:43 |
| LjL | no | 19:43 |
| JoeLlama | need to get back to work | 19:43 |
| LjL | okay | 19:43 |
| LjL | but then don't make claims | 19:43 |
| JoeLlama | fortunately I still have work :/ | 19:43 |
| JoeLlama | don't make claims? | 19:44 |
| JoeLlama | please google okay guys :( | 19:44 |
| AimHere | https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3551767 | 19:44 |
| AimHere | This looks like it might be it | 19:44 |
| LjL | AimHere, thanks | 19:44 |
| LjL | i don't want to be like "source?" for every single thing that gets mentioned... but sometimes a claim can sound a bit too bold, really | 19:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:37 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global death toll passes 15,000 as WHO warns spread of virus is accelerating: UK coronavirus live updates US coronavirus latest updates Spanish minister says older people found ‘dead and abandoned’ ‘This is not a film’: Italian mayors rage at lockdown dodgers See all of our coronavirus coverage → https://is.gd/bEuiim | 19:46 |
| AimHere | LjL, yeah, I wasn't really that sceptical, more a 'Big if true, I want to know more' citation needed! | 19:48 |
| LjL | i think on the other hand | 19:48 |
| LjL | you may have gotten a bitter reaction with something like "that's interesting, do you have somewhere i can read about that?" | 19:48 |
| LjL | "source?" and "citation needed" are often seen as too dry | 19:49 |
| LjL | they elicit bad reactions in many | 19:49 |
| yuriwho | Ontario Canada: full lockdown of people and all non-essential businesses for 2 weeks begins Tuesday at midnight https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/03/23/ndp-leader-andrea-horwath-urges-premier-doug-ford-to-give-covid-19-impacted-households-2k-relief-cheques.html | 19:52 |
| AimHere | Of course, the humidity might be an indirect effect. It might not be temperature and humidity, so much as people's behaviour. It rains, people stay in, and transmit the disease less, that sort of thing | 19:52 |
| LjL | AimHere, yeah correlations are difficult, news at 11 ;( | 19:53 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, possibly of interest to others too: https://discourse.covid-oss-help.org/ | 19:55 |
| LjL | got it from https://twitter.com/tacaswell/status/1242134167195979776 | 19:55 |
| astraliam[m] | %data italy | 19:56 |
| Brainstorm | astraliam[m]: In all areas, Italy, there are 63927 cases, 6077 deaths (9.5% of cases), 7432 recoveries as of March 23, 17:44Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 19:56 |
| LjL | yuriwho, dunnp, contingo ↑ "A place for clinicians / virologists / immunologists with data to find fast and free help from data science" might be of interest | 19:56 |
| yuriwho | very cool | 19:57 |
| LjL | of course, by the way, i would appreciate if people in related fields here can invite others. this is a channel mostly for lay people but it keeps its quality decent partly by having people who aren't shooting completely at random. | 19:58 |
| kreyren | Statistically there is 757518.5590147896 cases on covid-19 infection in czech republic assuming percentage calculation of convermed cases in relation to conducted cases and then corelating them to the number or registered citizens in czech republic as of 2018. (1236 confirmed from 17377 conducted is 7.112850319387697%) | 19:58 |
| LjL | what is "conducted"? | 20:00 |
| kreyren | LjL, meaning from all inviduals who were tested on this | 20:01 |
| LjL | oh, well, that's flawed though, unless the sample being tested was random | 20:01 |
| LjL | which it most likely wasn't | 20:01 |
| LjL | tests are generally done on people who are already strongly suspected to carry the virus | 20:02 |
| LjL | you shouldn't expect the same percentage of positives in the general population, except in rare mentioned cases like Iceland | 20:02 |
| kreyren | czech tests all citizens with symptoms for free and on demand which is paid. | 20:02 |
| kreyren | so somewhat random? | 20:03 |
| AimHere | So it's skewed in favour of the symptomatic | 20:03 |
| AimHere | And therefore it's an overestimate | 20:03 |
| LjL | Boris Johnson will shortly address the UK | 20:03 |
| kreyren | true, so we can say that there is up to 757518.5590147896 cases of covid-19 in czech right? | 20:04 |
| AimHere | I expect all shops to be closed if they're not selling food or medicine or money | 20:04 |
| AimHere | Well sure, it's an upper bound, just as the actual known cases is the lower bound | 20:04 |
| farn | kreyren: Not random at all, unless you ignore the free tests and assume that people roll dice to decide whether they should pay for a test. | 20:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 19:02 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Lombardia, primo giorno ricoveri in calo - Cronaca - ANSA — from WHO at 19:02: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/XHzkci | 20:04 |
| LjL | I expect Boris Johnson's speech to be live here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Auq9mYxFEE in around 30 miutes | 20:05 |
| kreyren | farn, what do you suggest to calculate the amount of cases per country depending on the amount of conducted tests? | 20:05 |
| kreyren | would be very helpful to know assuming that not everyone is able to test all citizens with suspected symptoms | 20:05 |
| LjL | i would suggest selecting people really at random and testing them, if you think you can do it with a large enough sample for significance | 20:06 |
| LjL | if you can't, maybe it just isn't a priority | 20:07 |
| LjL | kreyren, but there is a paper about Italy in the resources, trying to determine how many people are *actually* infected for every region | 20:07 |
| LjL | i don't really understand the methods it uses, but maybe you would | 20:07 |
| farn | kreyren: I have no idea. There was an estimate in Germany about a week ago of 10x as many infections as there have been positive tests but I didn't check how they got to that number | 20:08 |
| kreyren[m] | LjL how would that help assuming that it would provide inconsistent results ? That paper would be welcomed | 20:08 |
| LjL | err, I'm sorry, the speech to the nation will be at 8:30pm (GMT) in the UK. I messed up the timezone thinking. | 20:08 |
| kreyren[m] | farn afaik that was wild establishment from the gov | 20:08 |
| kreyren[m] | in Germany | 20:09 |
| LjL | kreyren[m], why would a genuine random sample provide "inconsistent" results? | 20:09 |
| pwr22 | Boris will be on TV at 8:30 UK time | 20:09 |
| pwr22 | Ah, already covered, sorry | 20:09 |
| kreyren[m] | I wasnt able to find any other information on how Germany get to that number that is | 20:09 |
| LjL | ah, no idea | 20:10 |
| kreyren[m] | LjL, inconsistent assuming exponential spread and that not everyone is stationary under quarantine | 20:10 |
| LjL | but it was mentioned earlier that Iceland, at least, took an actual random sample | 20:10 |
| LjL | kreyren[m], well the sample needs to be random across the country (or whatever area you're trying to gauge) | 20:11 |
| LjL | obviously you can't get a sample of Italians only from Milan if you're wanting to estimate Italy as a whole | 20:11 |
| bin_bash | random samples are hard to do in large areas | 20:11 |
| kreyren[m] | I.e place A could have 100 infected today and 80~400 tomorrow | 20:11 |
| LjL | bin_bash, they're even harder if you expect low prevalence | 20:11 |
| bin_bash | yeah | 20:11 |
| LjL | kreyren[m], the amount of variability may be part of the thinking behind most countries not even trying it (although i think it's mostly wanting to focus on testing people with symptoms to treat them) | 20:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:05 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global death toll passes 15,000 as WHO warns spread of virus is accelerating: UK coronavirus live updates US coronavirus latest updates Spanish minister says older people found ‘dead and abandoned’ ‘This is not a film’: Italian mayors rage at lockdown dodgers See all of our coronavirus coverage → https://is.gd/bEuiim | 20:16 |
| kreyren[m] | LjL, true but I am more concerned about those who are just at home and refusing to go and take the test thinking its common flu and countries around me like stupid Germany that is unable to track the cases and handle the situation.. | 20:17 |
| LjL | kreyren[m], well if those people have manageable symptoms *and stay home*, it'll not be too bad | 20:18 |
| LjL | if they don't stay home then they should be charged with crimes, probably | 20:18 |
| kreyren[m] | LjL there are charged with crime if they do not stay at home but I would like to know the peak of those who are not tracked or behave irresponsibly per country based on known variables to adapt the tracking | 20:19 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 Quebec, Canada: +409 cases (now 628) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Angola: +1 cases (now 3) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Bahrain: +38 cases (now 377), +4 recoveries (now 164) 🔹 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +1 cases (now 131) 🔹 Brazil: +9 cases (now 1629) 🔹 Cambodia: +1 cases (now 87) [... want %more?] | 20:20 |
| Justin[m] | %cases | 20:20 |
| Brainstorm | Justin[m]: In all areas, World, there are 406589 cases, 17760 deaths (4.4% of cases), 104440 recoveries as of March 23, 19:19Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. | 20:20 |
| Albright | kreyren[m]: I've been having some symptoms the last couple days, but since they're mild and I'm not in a vulnerable group, I'm not bothering with being tested yet. | 20:20 |
| Justin[m] | Estimating mortality as death / cases underestimates the mortality rate while the outbreak is ongoing. Ideally one would estimate mortality uses cases that started at the same time. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30195-X/fulltext#%20 If that isn't possible, then death / (death + recovered) is a better estimate than death / cases. | 20:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 19:16 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus: Is Trump going cold on lockdown strategy? - BBC News — from WHO at 19:16: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/RfW1I6 | 20:23 |
| kreyren | Albright, Can you provide more info on the reasoning? would be helpful in research | 20:23 |
| kreyren | i.e which country, province, religion, how far is the testing ground from you and how convinient it is for you to get tested . | 20:23 |
| LjL | Justin[m], death / (death + recovered) is usually a TERRIBLE estimate, and can only be used as an upper boundary, if anything, because recoveries are very inconsistently counted, and you end up with ludicrous things like 58% (last one i've seen) | 20:24 |
| Justin[m] | Albright: You should self isolate though. | 20:24 |
| Albright | kreyren: The main one is that since my symptoms are not severe and I'm not in a vulnerable age group, I'm more than happy for health care resources to go towards others first. | 20:24 |
| Albright | kreyren: US, Idaho state, agnostic if you had to put a word on it, haven't looked into it much. | 20:24 |
| LjL | Justin[m], do note that the bot only stated that that those deaths are 4.4% of cases. it doesn't make any claim on mortality rate (although it does sometimes, depending on the numbers) | 20:24 |
| Albright | kreyren: But also I've only had *some* symptoms, specifically a fever; no cough or breathing issues. So there's a good chance this isn't COVID-19 anyway. | 20:25 |
| LjL | when it does provide estimates, it gives a lower and an upper boundary. the upper one is given the way you mention, but only if it's below something not plainly absurd | 20:25 |
| kreyren | Albright, how would you resolve the situation if it got worse and you had no way of getting to the testing ground and how would that affect you if you had none to call who would help you with that situation ? | 20:25 |
| Albright | kreyren: Then I guess I would suffer and possibly die alone in my house, but I think that's unlikely that this thing would completely immobilize me. | 20:26 |
| Albright | Again, I'm not in a vulnerable age group. It would take a lot more than this to stop my ability to get in my car and drive somewhere. | 20:27 |
| kreyren | Albright, thanks that last question was in the context of 3rd world countries for variable tracking. | 20:27 |
| Arsanerit | Hospitals here are complaining about having too many empty beds. They've cancelled all postponable operations and are now literally waiting for COVID-19 patients. If they don't come they'll get in financial trouble. | 20:28 |
| kreyren | Albright, if you know about any other variables that would affect your judgement in relation to getting teste then let me know please | 20:28 |
| Albright | kreyren: Well, I don't know. The only third-world country I've been to was Vancouver and I was only there a couple days, so I don't have much experience in that regard. | 20:28 |
| Albright | kreyren: If I started having breathing issues or if my fever got much higher (it's been hovering around 100 F/38.5 C) then I would consider it. | 20:29 |
| kreyren | Albright, i didn't meant you directly in that regard :p i.e person in US has different options and variables to make it's decision then in theoretical scenario the exact same person (lets assume perfect clone) in other country. | 20:30 |
| Albright | Well, yes. | 20:30 |
| Justin[m] | LjL: Thanks for the clarification. | 20:31 |
| LjL | %title https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/52002474 | 20:33 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.bbc.com: Tokyo 2020: Olympics to be postponed until 2021, says IOC member - BBC Sport | 20:33 |
| LjL | was about time | 20:33 |
| Albright | NICE. | 20:33 |
| pwr22 | It's only 7:30 here | 20:34 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "I expect Boris Johnson's speech "> It's another hour yet | 20:34 |
| LjL | pwr22, i know, i corrected myself above, sorry | 20:34 |
| pwr22 | Np | 20:34 |
| Albright | I really wanted to go see the Olympics in Tokyo this year, but it wasn't working out even before the economy got destroyed. Now I'll get another chance. | 20:34 |
| Albright | Of course the cost isn't really worth it, but… | 20:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:21 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Dominic Raab advises all Britons abroad to return to UK now — from WHO at 19:21: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/xQ5gWs | 20:35 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +431 cases (now 407020), +14 recoveries (now 104454) 🔸 Israel: +204 cases (now 1442), +4 recoveries (now 41) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Angola: +1 cases (now 3) 🔹 Antigua and Barbuda: +2 cases (now 3) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Austria: +162 cases (now 4468) [... want %more?] | 20:35 |
| nichos[m] | %more | 20:44 |
| Brainstorm | nichos[m], [...] 🔹 Bahrain: +38 cases (now 377), +4 recoveries (now 164) 🔹 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +1 cases (now 131) 🔹 Brazil: +9 cases (now 1629) 🔹 Cambodia: +1 cases (now 87) 🔹 Canada: +15 cases (now 2035), +1 deaths (now 24) 🔹 British Columbia, Canada: +48 cases (now 472), +3 deaths (now 13) 🔹 Ontario, Canada: +1 deaths (now 6) [...] → https://paste.ee/p/V55Hc | 20:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:40 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global death toll passes 15,000 as WHO warns spread of virus is accelerating: UK coronavirus live updates US coronavirus latest updates Spanish minister says older people found ‘dead and abandoned’ ‘This is not a film’: Italian mayors rage at lockdown dodgers See all of our coronavirus coverage → https://is.gd/bEuiim | 20:47 |
| kreyren | why does it matter if invidual is in contact with spreaders of covid-19 for them to have more severe case of covid-19 i.e death of 26yo chinese worker and 31yo taxi driver in czech republic who is in critical condition atm | 20:47 |
| kreyren | i would assume that the more samples the immune system has the more information it has to process to battle the virus no? | 20:48 |
| kreyren | unless it overwhelmes it causing the ethosomething storm ? | 20:48 |
| kreyren | edit: Cytokine storm | 20:49 |
| LjL | more virus may also cause worse symptoms and worse outcome, for all we know. | 20:50 |
| LjL | healthcare workers are being hit very hard by this thing. | 20:50 |
| LjL | and they definitely get exposed to a lot of "flavors" of the virus when they work with patients. | 20:50 |
| davidmpye[m] | Suspect the problem is due to the initial inoculation dose - ie number of particles | 20:50 |
| davidmpye[m] | or repeated exposure early on, before your immune system has yet had the chance to react. | 20:51 |
| LjL | maybe, but we don't really know | 20:51 |
| davidmpye[m] | indeed. | 20:51 |
| kreyren | So why is it insane to expose the populus to small amount of particles about which we know (based on available data) to result in minor symptoms and for body to adapt it's immune system in case they ever get in contact with it? | 20:52 |
| LjL | we do NOT know that. | 20:53 |
| kreyren | i.e training the immune system on this so that it woudn't overract in cytokine storm and was able to produce the antibiotics | 20:53 |
| davidmpye[m] | they don't result in minor symptoms for the elderly, and for people with chronic health problems. | 20:53 |
| davidmpye[m] | hence the main issue. | 20:53 |
| ubLIX | naive, but: if there are several modes of infection, greater load increases probability of hitting every mode (including the harmful one, that induces the worst symptoms) | 20:54 |
| kreyren | LjL, doubt assuming that we have the data per age and per health where we can deduce the amount of injested particles depending on the symptoms ? | 20:54 |
| LjL | they don't result in minor symptoms for 20% at least of the population (likely more if you look at Italy) for all we know. the fact it's a "small dose" may or may not make things better, we absolutely don't know that. | 20:54 |
| davidmpye[m] | there are two problems here - two different type of disordered immune reaction | 20:54 |
| LjL | kreyren, we aren't even close to being able to deducing that. | 20:54 |
| LjL | i have no idea what you're basing this on. | 20:54 |
| davidmpye[m] | the cytokine storm is at one end of the spectrum, a completely inefficient response is at the other, leading to the virus simply running riot. | 20:54 |
| kreyren | LjL, based on available data in czech republic and my understanding of it | 20:54 |
| davidmpye[m] | If you think you can 'dose' a live virus, you're hilariously mistaken | 20:54 |
| kreyren | davidmpye[m], true | 20:55 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 US: +367 cases (now 41936), +4 deaths (now 508) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Angola: +1 cases (now 3) 🔹 Antigua and Barbuda: +2 cases (now 3) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Austria: +162 cases (now 4468) 🔹 Bahrain: +38 cases (now 377), +4 recoveries (now 164) [... want %more?] | 20:55 |
| LjL | kreyren, not sure which Czech data you're talking about. the estimate you made earlier was flawed as i mentioned. | 20:55 |
| kreyren | davidmpye[m], but then we know that SARS-CoV-2 is infecting the body though VCE2 receptors which can be partially(?) blocked by remdesvir so in theory we can control the exposure to the virus this way? or doctor Sona Pekova in czech republic proposed a method of controlling the infection with other coronavirus that has minor symptoms that would prevent other coronavirus from infecting ? | 20:56 |
| kreyren | LjL, this is irelevant to the estimate above | 20:57 |
| davidmpye[m] | I'm not convinced remdesvir works by blocking ACE2 | 20:57 |
| kreyren | davidmpye[m], that's what i've been explained | 20:57 |
| davidmpye[m] | then have it explained again | 20:57 |
| davidmpye[m] | it's a RNA polymerase inhibitor | 20:58 |
| davidmpye[m] | Interestingly, we have drugs we use for high blood pressure which block ACE2 | 20:58 |
| kreyren | davidmpye[m], asked 4 experts about this where all of them provided the same explanation | 20:58 |
| davidmpye[m] | but they actually lead to more deaths, due to their causing upregulation in ACE inhibitors. | 20:58 |
| kreyren | davidmpye[m], which are? | 20:58 |
| davidmpye[m] | *ACE receptors | 20:58 |
| davidmpye[m] | ARBS | 20:58 |
| davidmpye[m] | angiotensin receptor blockers | 20:58 |
| davidmpye[m] | irbesartan, candesartan | 20:58 |
| kreyren | davidmpye[m], thanks | 20:58 |
| davidmpye[m] | as examples | 20:58 |
| davidmpye[m] | used for treatment of hypertension | 20:59 |
| LjL | ugh, they eventaully established ARBs make it worse? | 20:59 |
| kreyren | but assuming that we have some drug that is efficiently able to block VCE2 receptors in a controller manner so that we would be able to control the spread of SARS-CoV-2 in a human body would that be a sufficient treatment to educate the body on how to handle the infection ? | 20:59 |
| davidmpye[m] | but their use causes proliferation of ACE receptors, which might be making it easier to hijack cells | 20:59 |
| davidmpye[m] | LjL: Initial numbers appear to suggest so | 20:59 |
| kreyren | and assuming that SARS-CoV-2 only infects using VCE2 receptors | 20:59 |
| kreyren | which may not be true | 21:00 |
| davidmpye[m] | kreyren: Imagine you dose up a person somehow to achieve this, they go out and cough on their partner, who spreads it to their extended family (who aren't on your genius treatment regimen), and it's off again | 21:00 |
| pwr22 | <davidmpye[m] "but they actually lead to more d"> That's less than ideal for me | 21:00 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "ugh, they eventaully established"> I'm hoping not 😁 | 21:00 |
| davidmpye[m] | kreyren: i think you're going to have to wait until we have an inactivated virion particle which has the receptors on, but no viral RNA inside | 21:00 |
| kreyren | davidmpye[m], thus proposed method to give the person some mask that would filter these to prevent them getting in the environment, i.e coughting in PM1.0 bag | 21:01 |
| kreyren | or having gas mask with PM1.0 filter attached in theoretical scenario | 21:01 |
| davidmpye[m] | har har. Good luck, assuming you want them to be able to eat, or shower. | 21:01 |
| kreyren | well practically the person can be isolated for this | 21:02 |
| davidmpye[m] | pwr22: Well, it doesnt seem 100% clear. See https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/advance-article/doi/10.1093/eurheartj/ehaa235/5810479 | 21:02 |
| LjL | davidmpye[m], wouldn't those numbers be confounded by the fact that people with high blood pressure, in general, were already found to be more susceptible? do you have a study separating the effects of ARBs specifically? this is relevant to me | 21:02 |
| davidmpye[m] | partly because many people on ARB/ACEIs are older and have other health problems | 21:02 |
| LjL | okay | 21:02 |
| davidmpye[m] | LjL: Indeed. | 21:03 |
| davidmpye[m] | The gist is, at present, don't stop taking them | 21:03 |
| davidmpye[m] | Because we don't really know | 21:03 |
| davidmpye[m] | We tend to stop those drugs in intensive care anyway | 21:03 |
| davidmpye[m] | but for people who aren't currently sick, it's not advised to stop | 21:03 |
| tinwhiskers | I seem to recall someone here talking about proton pump inhibitors and susceptibility to covid-19, but I'm not having much luck finding anywayhing. Any ideas? | 21:04 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +33934 cases (now 407545), +1444 deaths (now 17765), +3167 recoveries (now 104574) 🔸 Georgia (US), US: +772 cases (now 772), +25 deaths (now 25) 🔸 Florida, US: +341 cases (now 1171), +1 deaths (now 14) 🔸 California, US: +231 cases (now 1873), +5 deaths (now 35) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) [... want %more?] | 21:05 |
| LjL | davidmpye[m], are you a medical professional? | 21:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:59 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Trump signals change in coronavirus strategy that could clash with health experts — from WHO at 19:59: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/ATCWGE | 21:05 |
| davidmpye[m] | I'm not aware of it, but that doesn't mean that much. We know PPIs increase risk of some GI infections, presumably by reducing gastric pH | 21:06 |
| davidmpye[m] | LjL: Yeah | 21:06 |
| davidmpye[m] | But I'm not here to give specific advice, obvs ;-) | 21:06 |
| LjL | of course | 21:06 |
| LjL | but since you said "we tend", i wondered | 21:06 |
| davidmpye[m] | I'm having so much fun talking about COVID all day at work, so I thought I'd come to continue it once I got home ;-) | 21:06 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 21:06 |
| LjL | yeah, why not, it's well known that focusing 24/7 on one negative thing is good for one's immune system ;) | 21:07 |
| LjL | that's why i do it too | 21:07 |
| davidmpye[m] | It's probably a bad idea to drink most nights too. But hey. | 21:07 |
| pwr22 | !cases bristol | 21:08 |
| CovBot | In Bristol, City of, United Kingdom there have been a total of 28 cases as of 2020-03-23 20:08:09 UTC. | 21:08 |
| pwr22 | 5 more cases today | 21:08 |
| pwr22 | Riding the curve woo 😭 | 21:08 |
| tinwhiskers | !cases new zealand | 21:08 |
| CovBot | In New Zealand there have been a total of 102 cases as of 2020-03-23 18:51:04 UTC. Of these 102 (100.0%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 0 (0.0%) have definitely recovered and 0 (0.0%) have died. | 21:09 |
| Justin[m] | davidmpye: Do you think that current efforts in Italy, Spain, Germany and the US are enough to slow new cases to manageable levels in those places? | 21:09 |
| davidmpye[m] | Justin: Ask me in a couple of weeks.... There's effectively a 2 week lag between action and result | 21:09 |
| LjL | i think that partly depends if by "current", in Italy, you count the decree that's not actually even law yet | 21:09 |
| davidmpye[m] | If you can get number of cases infected by a person to <1, you're winning, of course | 21:09 |
| LjL | davidmpye[m], well it's already been a couple of weeks since the initial lockdowns in Italy. problem is, they were a joke | 21:10 |
| davidmpye[m] | Certainly, in the UK, lockdown isn't loced down anywhere near enough | 21:10 |
| davidmpye[m] | LjL: yea | 21:10 |
| LjL | Johnson is making an announcement in 20 minutes or so though | 21:10 |
| LjL | in case you missed that | 21:10 |
| davidmpye[m] | I think the asian countries have two major advantages. China - certainly, authoritarianism | 21:10 |
| davidmpye[m] | the others: perhaps a mindset of people 'getting it' | 21:11 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: so in about 4-5 days Italy will overtake China :-( | 21:11 |
| davidmpye[m] | I've had to listen to numerous idiots and out about here saying "it's all a hoax man, it's just flu, nobody has died of it yet" | 21:11 |
| davidmpye[m] | I think the asian countries had a wakeup with SARS/MERS | 21:11 |
| tinwhiskers | Although the US will overtake china at about the same time | 21:12 |
| Justin[m] | South Korea had an impressive system in place to identify and notify those possibly infected. To some degree it depends on the authoritarian nature of their government, but substantial parts of it could be implemented by an organized and thoughtful government. | 21:12 |
| Justin[m] | "an organized" should be "any organized" | 21:13 |
| LjL | davidmpye[m], please read the first section of the resources page in this room's topic | 21:14 |
| LjL | i wrote it | 21:14 |
| LjL | fwiw | 21:14 |
| tinwhiskers | davidmpye[m]: yeah, the "it's just another flu" crowd wears thin pretty fast. I feel for you. | 21:15 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, it would be nice to hear more people say "damn, i was wrong, guys, sorry" | 21:16 |
| LjL | instead of just silence | 21:16 |
| LjL | but maybe they're silent because i quieted them all :P | 21:16 |
| tinwhiskers | true :-) | 21:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:13 UTC: New York coronavirus cases surge 38% overnight to 20,875: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo estimates that up to 80% of the state's more than 19.4 million residents will get the coronavirus. — from WHO at 20:13: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/sPQKzL | 21:18 |
| davidmpye[m] | tinwhiskers: eventually. But probably after they've infected their family and their mates | 21:18 |
| davidmpye[m] | tinwhiskers: I'm unlikely to be that delighted with that, even though I'd like a little schadenfreude | 21:19 |
| tinwhiskers | :-( | 21:19 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 21:19 |
| LjL | it's a bit how i sometimes feel myself half wishing someone who's driving like an utter moron has a fatal accident | 21:19 |
| LjL | but then i remember chances are they'd kill other people too | 21:19 |
| astraliam[m] | what are people thoughts on the air bourne transmission of this? Media seems to think it's not a big factor. | 21:19 |
| LjL | i think it's a factor | 21:20 |
| LjL | but it's my non-scientific opinion | 21:20 |
| LjL | except for the part where there were scientific papers later randomly retracted | 21:20 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +238 cases (now 407783), +9 deaths (now 17774), +13 recoveries (now 104587) 🔸 US: +227 cases (now 42163), +4 deaths (now 512), +108 recoveries (now 295) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Angola: +1 cases (now 3) 🔹 Antigua and Barbuda: +2 cases (now 3) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) [... want %more?] | 21:20 |
| freelock | https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/status/1241803403619172359 | 21:20 |
| davidmpye[m] | astraliam: if it is, our PPE is even more hilariously inadequate then it already seems | 21:20 |
| LjL | davidmpye[m], but, also, any PPE would be better than nothing, likely, unlikely continued WHO claims | 21:22 |
| LjL | and i get that masks are most needed by you medical people and others shouldn't hoard them | 21:22 |
| LjL | but i don't like the half-truths | 21:22 |
| LjL | that's not the way you achieve "compliance" | 21:22 |
| davidmpye[m] | The worst PPE, IMHO, is the one that gives you a false sense of security | 21:22 |
| davidmpye[m] | but then again, I'm cynical, and especially so about how PHE keeps downgrading the standard of PPE needed (which of course is nothing to do with evolving supply chain issues) | 21:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:16 UTC: (news): Amazon will deliver and pick up at-home test kits provided by new coronavirus program in Seattle — from WHO at 20:16: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/FcZUrQ | 21:24 |
| ubLIX | same link recommendation, LjL? | 21:24 |
| ubLIX | for UK address | 21:25 |
| LjL | davidmpye[m], yes, well, aiui, Italy is now basically authorizing the production of PPEs that are not only not CE marked, which would be the least of issues since the CE mark is just self-certification anyway, but that are basically... paper | 21:25 |
| LjL | literally printers are converting to making masks | 21:26 |
| LjL | now those don't really go to medical workers (hopefully) | 21:26 |
| LjL | but it's still pretty silly-seeming | 21:26 |
| LjL | ubLIX, yes i'm still monitoring Sky | 21:26 |
| LjL | ubLIX, it has the Johnson speech announcement in the bottom scroll, doesn't say they'll show it, but so far they've shown all the addresses given | 21:26 |
| LjL | there's also this by Guardian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bUCwmYcvzY but it's confusing because it says it's about the daily speech... which this isn't | 21:28 |
| LjL | also Telegraph https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxRBaX8f9oA | 21:29 |
| aradesh | boris isn't on yet | 21:29 |
| aradesh | he's on now. | 21:30 |
| LjL | i'm not seeing him yet | 21:30 |
| LjL | okay | 21:30 |
| LjL | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Auq9mYxFEE | 21:30 |
| pwr22 | He's appeared | 21:30 |
| LjL | this is the earliest stream that had it for me | 21:30 |
| LjL | he's saying if too many become sick at one time the NHS won't handle it, meaning they will die from COVID as well as other illnesses (surprise) | 21:31 |
| LjL | so they need to spread the disease in time | 21:31 |
| AimHere | He has to spell it out to the Brexit voters | 21:32 |
| LjL | many are complying, but now they need to do more | 21:32 |
| pwr22 | You must stay at home | 21:32 |
| LjL | ↑ | 21:32 |
| pwr22 | Shopping for basic necessities, one form of exercise a day | 21:32 |
| pwr22 | Any medical need | 21:32 |
| pwr22 | To and from work, ONLY IF ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY | 21:32 |
| pwr22 | Don't go out otherwise, don't meet friends, don't meet family | 21:33 |
| LjL | will they have exercise vouchers? | 21:33 |
| LjL | to enforce one a day? | 21:33 |
| AimHere | How is this enforced? | 21:33 |
| pwr22 | Use food delivery as much as possible | 21:33 |
| aradesh | police been given power to enforce it | 21:33 |
| pwr22 | Police will enforce through fines and disbursing gatherings | 21:33 |
| LjL | pwr22, which will be overwhelmed and stop working quckly | 21:33 |
| LjL | police will have powers to fine for compliance | 21:33 |
| pwr22 | All non essential shops closed | 21:33 |
| LjL | bah my stream is behind y'all's | 21:33 |
| aradesh | they said we shouldn't see our family, i'm gonna have to break this to my dad | 21:34 |
| pwr22 | review in 3 weeks | 21:34 |
| pwr22 | Many people will still die | 21:34 |
| pwr22 | Former clinicians augmenting NHS | 21:35 |
| LjL | aradesh, well, you really shouldn't if you can, unless you are the safest way to deliver them groceries... | 21:35 |
| pwr22 | Lots of efforts to treat the virus | 21:35 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +293 cases (now 408076), +7 deaths (now 17781) 🔸 Turkey: +293 cases (now 1529), +7 deaths (now 37) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Angola: +1 cases (now 3) 🔹 Antigua and Barbuda: +2 cases (now 3) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) 🔹 Austria: +162 cases (now 4468) [... want %more?] | 21:35 |
| pwr22 | All finished now | 21:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 20:32 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Chris Williams su Twitter: "NEW: the government has asked all mobile operators to prepare to send an official text message to everyone in the UK. Content and exact timing are unclear but operators have been asked to be ready from this evening." [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/EJMWqS | 21:36 |
| LjL | welcome to Italy v1.5 | 21:37 |
| LjL | i was expecting more Italy v1.0 | 21:37 |
| LjL | but hoping Italy v2.0 | 21:37 |
| aradesh | i expect to see lots of people in my area to not be following the advice | 21:37 |
| aradesh | been seeing kids playing around in the streets all weekend and day | 21:37 |
| aradesh | with no school | 21:38 |
| LjL | enforcement will be key to this | 21:38 |
| LjL | but also | 21:38 |
| Jigsy | UK now in lockdown. | 21:38 |
| pwr22 | News is going through details | 21:38 |
| LjL | i think it's not enough if work activities and public transport are mostly still going | 21:38 |
| LjL | Jigsy, we're kind of aware, scroll up :P | 21:38 |
| Jigsy | Sorry, was cooking food. | 21:38 |
| pwr22 | ha ha | 21:38 |
| aradesh | all gatherings of more than 2, except for households, banned | 21:39 |
| davidmpye[m] | I am pleased at this | 21:41 |
| aradesh | bah. i'm getting low on certain food too... what should i do D: | 21:41 |
| aradesh | should i just wait until i run out? | 21:41 |
| LjL | davidmpye[m], although i don't think it's enough, enforcement will be key imo. if you do it like italy, it'll be useless until it gets stricter. | 21:42 |
| LjL | aradesh, no | 21:42 |
| AimHere | aradesh, wait as long as practicable and go out and buy more | 21:42 |
| LjL | aradesh, don't hoard, but do make sure you stock | 21:42 |
| aradesh | i'm just wondering when the best time to go shopping is | 21:42 |
| LjL | obtaining food WILL become tricky, not because of any lack of food, but because of logistics | 21:42 |
| aradesh | where i can avoid most people | 21:42 |
| LjL | aradesh, order it online if/while you can | 21:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 20:41 UTC: /u/slakmehl: David S. Joachim su Twitter: "🚨 BREAKING: Boris Johnson puts U.K. on three-week lockdown https://t.co/6HuUjgTeBa… " — from WHO at 20:41: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/cRtznH | 21:42 |
| bin_bash | aradesh: if youre able try to order online | 21:42 |
| LjL | although i assume right now, most supermarkets' websites will be down with too many requests | 21:43 |
| aradesh | my super market has had no slots available for over a week now | 21:43 |
| aradesh | whenever i've checked, at least | 21:43 |
| LjL | yeah, same with ours except for over two weeks | 21:43 |
| LjL | and that's how far they go | 21:43 |
| aradesh | the supermarket website won't even load right now xD | 21:43 |
| aradesh | ah, it's just super slow | 21:43 |
| davidmpye[m] | Interestingly my corner shop has supplies. The massive supermarket chains dont | 21:45 |
| davidmpye[m] | Seems people are driving to the out of town shops to stockpile, not smaller ones | 21:45 |
| Albright | Just checked my temperature. My fever is lower than it has been since I started checking it two days ago. Phew. | 21:46 |
| LjL | davidmpye[m], here smaller supermarkets have much shorter queues (seen it personally but also from others' reports), despite allowing fewer people inside | 21:46 |
| LjL | but only the bigger supermarket chains can still *try* to offer delivery at all | 21:46 |
| bin_bash | aradesh: yeah been similar here. costco had some | 21:46 |
| LjL | even though they mostly don't, as their sites fail and their slots get filled between 0:00 and 0:01 | 21:47 |
| LjL | i'm going to have dinner | 21:47 |
| LjL | good luck UK | 21:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 20:45 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Boris Johnson Puts U.K. on Three-Week Lockdown as Virus Spreads — from WHO at 20:45: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/i7kIrw | 21:49 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +321 cases (now 408397), +15 deaths (now 17796) 🔸 US: +280 cases (now 42443), +5 deaths (now 517) 🔹 Albania: +15 cases (now 104) 🔹 Algeria: +29 cases (now 230) 🔹 Andorra: +20 cases (now 133) 🔹 Angola: +1 cases (now 3) 🔹 Antigua and Barbuda: +2 cases (now 3) 🔹 Armenia: +41 cases (now 235) 🔹 Australia: +8 cases (now 1717) [... want %more?] | 21:50 |
| mnu | UK lockdwon | 21:53 |
| bin_bash | ♫ it's the final lockdown ♫ | 21:53 |
| bin_bash | jk | 21:53 |
| mnu | if only people hadn't decided last weekend was a good time to go on holiday | 21:54 |
| mnu | this shouldn't have been needed | 21:54 |
| mnu | oh well | 21:54 |
| banshi | hello all | 21:56 |
| banshi | how much people die of coronavirus in Italy? Is it really 10% of infected? | 21:57 |
| aradesh | when will trump give the same speech in the USA? friday? | 21:57 |
| eaxomar | no | 21:57 |
| eaxomar | it's 10% of confirmed infections | 21:57 |
| eaxomar | but there's no testing | 21:57 |
| Metamorphosis | Typing this from Iran, the real number of coronavitrus cases here might be as much as 5 times higher than the official statistics. | 21:57 |
| eaxomar | around 6000 death | 21:58 |
| Albright | I'm worried about Iran. I've heard some really nasty things about the "real" numbers of deaths there and how it might be basically tearing the country apart. | 21:59 |
| ubLIX | pwr22: where in the stream did you hear "<pwr22> review in 3 weeks"? | 21:59 |
| banshi | 6000 out of ??? | 21:59 |
| Albright | I'm hoping that no political/religious enemies take it as an opportunity to invade and start even more war. | 21:59 |
| ubLIX | i missed it | 21:59 |
| eaxomar | exactly | 21:59 |
| eaxomar | We have no idea. | 22:00 |
| ubLIX | pwr22: ah, got it. nvm | 22:00 |
| bin_bash | mnu: it wouldve been needed regardless | 22:00 |
| Metamorphosis | The government issued no Quarantine as it can't support people (in food and health neccesities) | 22:01 |
| bin_bash | %cases brazil | 22:02 |
| Brainstorm | bin_bash: In all areas, Brazil, there are 1696 cases, 34 deaths (2.0% of cases), 2 recoveries as of March 23, 20:49Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Brazil for time series data. | 22:02 |
| Metamorphosis | I could tell only 30% of people here are staying at home in Tehran (capital and the largest city with over 14 million population), the rest are on streets. | 22:02 |
| AimHere | Metamorphosis, the official statistics suggest that 0.02% are infected. I'd be massively surprised if the real infection rate was only 5 times larger | 22:04 |
| AimHere | Typing this from nowhere near Tehran, so there's that | 22:04 |
| banshi | We consider virus really dangerous if it kills at least 3-4 of our neighbors, right? | 22:05 |
| Metamorphosis | Many people are losing their jobs in here. I lost my job and many of my friends did too. Iran does not have a good employment law and the companies are free to kick you out without any spending at any time they want. | 22:05 |
| banshi | Metamorphosis: ^ | 22:05 |
| Metamorphosis | That makes the living harder as we are already under sanctions. | 22:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 21:00 UTC: Coronavirus: When will the outbreak end and life get back to normal?: The huge challenge the world faces to find an exit strategy to end the lockdowns and return to normal. — from WHO at 21:00: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/AyPBDL | 22:06 |
| banshi | Italians, are you here? | 22:07 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +215 cases (now 408612), +3 recoveries (now 104590) 🔹 Austria: +6 cases (now 4474) 🔹 Brazil: +195 cases (now 1891) 🔹 Canada: +14 cases (now 2049) 🔹 Denmark: +13 recoveries (now 14) 🔹 Dominican Republic: +3 recoveries (now 3) | 22:08 |
| banshi | Brasil +195 WOW | 22:08 |
| banshi | out of control? | 22:08 |
| tinwhiskers | banshi: depends what you mean by control. They are not going quite as quickly as Italy or spain did | 22:10 |
| tinwhiskers | It's possible their mitigation is having some effect so they may have some degree on "control" | 22:11 |
| tinwhiskers | *of "control" | 22:11 |
| berndj | LjL, yeah! 21 days of lockdown! i don't think it'll work, but let's see | 22:11 |
| Quarantini[m] | %data Minnesota | 22:11 |
| Brainstorm | Quarantini[m]: In Minnesota, US, there are 169 cases, 1 deaths (0.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 23, 21:00Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 22:11 |
| tinwhiskers | berndj: You're in South Africa? | 22:11 |
| berndj | tinwhiskers, yes | 22:12 |
| Metamorphosis | Foremost among all the challenges appears to be the question of increasing poverty and unemployment, most specially among the blue collar workers and more vulnerable families, as the costs of life combined with costs related to coronavirus is beyond the ability of them to support themselves. | 22:13 |
| tinwhiskers | berndj: your government is getting in early on the act so there's a chance they might manage. | 22:13 |
| berndj | tinwhiskers, i don't think my government enjoys the required authority in our ghettos | 22:13 |
| tinwhiskers | eeep. no. I can imagine | 22:14 |
| berndj | people are just going to continue milling about | 22:14 |
| tinwhiskers | hrm | 22:14 |
| tinwhiskers | crud | 22:14 |
| tinwhiskers | Is there likely to be much testing in the ghettos? | 22:14 |
| berndj | it might flush the disease out of the formal-housing suburbs, but then it'll just be in a reservoir in the ghettos and continually re-infect formal areas | 22:15 |
| tinwhiskers | I assume they are fairly anti-western-medicine? | 22:15 |
| berndj | tinwhiskers, this morning when i checked there'd been 12000-odd tests in total, nation-wide | 22:15 |
| tinwhiskers | that's not too bad | 22:15 |
| berndj | somewhat, but i think most of the people do trust western medicine over "traditional" medicine... although they don't distrust "traditional" medicine to the degree i wish they would | 22:16 |
| tinwhiskers | mmm | 22:16 |
| tinwhiskers | It's going to be a shit-show in lots of places in Africa for sure. You guys a likely to do better than some at least :-( | 22:17 |
| berndj | you can bet your last dollar there will be armies of quack doctors out there claiming to be able to cure covid19 with some random tree root and dog skull or something | 22:17 |
| tinwhiskers | heh. yeah | 22:17 |
| tinwhiskers | My mother sent me some advice to drink hot water | 22:17 |
| Albright | berndj: They're already out there. Let me see if I can find the article. | 22:17 |
| berndj | yeah, i'm expecting a shitshow that turns into endemic covid-19. we'll eventually reach "herd immunity" i guess | 22:17 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 22:18 |
| Albright | %title https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2020/03/ftc-fda-send-warning-letters-seven-companies-about-unsupported | 22:18 |
| Brainstorm | Albright: From www.ftc.gov: FTC, FDA Send Warning Letters to Seven Companies about Unsupported Claims that Products Can Treat or Prevent Coronavirus | Federal Trade Commission | 22:18 |
| Albright | "The recipients are companies that advertise products—including teas, essential oils, and colloidal silver—as able to treat or prevent coronavirus." | 22:19 |
| berndj | tinwhiskers, re: testing again, our CDC-equivalent has some good practice with HIV testing in the ghettos, so they've "seen action" before, but they're not currently up to the testing throughput that i think is required to get this thing under control without cratering the economy too badly | 22:21 |
| berndj | so far they've only been testing "high priority" people, and have afaik spent zero resources on random testing, so whatever's floating around out there, they're completely blind to | 22:22 |
| tinwhiskers | with 450 cases and 12000, that's 1 in 25 positive, which means the testing rate isn't overly restrictive | 22:23 |
| tinwhiskers | *12000 tests | 22:23 |
| bin_bash | HIV testing is a long ways away from COVID testing. | 22:23 |
| berndj | they've been testing travelers and their contacts, basically | 22:23 |
| berndj | overseas* travelers | 22:24 |
| tinwhiskers | that's the most effective use of tests when you're building capability and what most countries have done. SA seems to be doing a good job in general from my very cursory viewpoint | 22:24 |
| berndj | yeah i have no real criticism of our CDC-equivalent. they're doing about the best they can with the resources available to them | 22:25 |
| bin_bash | i just mean the capability for testing. Used to be you had to do a blood test and wait a long time, now you can do cheek swabs (although theyre less accurate) | 22:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:08 UTC: Coronavirus live news: UK goes into lockdown as WHO warns global spread of virus is accelerating: UK lockdown – live updates How UK lockdown compares with other countries US coronavirus live updates Australia coronavirus live updates See all of our coronavirus coverage [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bEuiim | 22:25 |
| berndj | but i am concerned about their blindness to community transmission | 22:26 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah. that's a concern in most places. Only a handful of countries who had SARS experience have managed any random testing. The capability just hasn't allowed it, albeit mostly because valuable time was squandered. | 22:27 |
| pagetelegram | I was just interviewed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFEDX7y-RRo | 22:27 |
| tinwhiskers | cool | 22:27 |
| tinwhiskers | That sounds like a load of nonsense | 22:28 |
| berndj | seriously? 5G crackpottery? | 22:28 |
| fructose | pagetelegram: What a bunch of dangerous bullshit | 22:30 |
| bin_bash | why are you doxing yourself pagetelegram | 22:30 |
| tinwhiskers | pagetelegram: that's shameful | 22:30 |
| tinwhiskers | you're my new least favourite person of the day | 22:30 |
| bin_bash | this is the stupidest shit i've ever heard all day, and i just heard how some idiot took out a $10k loan for a pedigree cat | 22:31 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 22:31 |
| berndj | salem hypothesis confirmed once again | 22:31 |
| banshi | 5G to mutate virus? Whatta hell... | 22:31 |
| bin_bash | dangerous to even spread that kind of nonsense | 22:32 |
| tinwhiskers | agreed. This channel will not tolerate that sort of bullshit and FUD. | 22:33 |
| tinwhiskers | grow a brain, but if you can't don't attempt to use it, and especially not here | 22:33 |
| eleklytr[m] | !cases italy | 22:34 |
| nico_ | https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/status/1241803403619172359?s=20 | 22:34 |
| CovBot | In Italy there have been a total of 63,927 cases as of 2020-03-23 18:51:04 UTC. Of these 50,418 (78.9%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 7,432 (11.6%) have definitely recovered and 6,077 (9.5%) have died. | 22:34 |
| yuriwho | man the CT's about man made viruses and 5G causing it to mutate are driving me insane. | 22:34 |
| tinwhiskers | CT's? | 22:35 |
| AimHere | Conspiracy Theoriews | 22:35 |
| tinwhiskers | oh. right | 22:35 |
| eleklytr[m] | <yuriwho "man the CT's about man made viru"> i really dont get what is people driving to such bullshit | 22:36 |
| yuriwho | they need someone to blame I guess | 22:36 |
| eaxomar | intentional disinformation? | 22:36 |
| fructose | yuriwho: Man made viruses are real. No reason to lump that in with 5G bullshit | 22:37 |
| eaxomar | unless you want to paint 5G critics as loonies | 22:37 |
| eleklytr[m] | yes intenttional disinformation | 22:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:29 UTC: Australian immigration and asylum: 'We are sitting ducks for Covid 19': asylum seekers write to PM after detainee tested in immigration detention — from WHO at 21:29: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/EhqGOh | 22:38 |
| yuriwho | I'm sure Russia is trying to get the US and China to blame each other | 22:38 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +320 cases (now 408932), +9 deaths (now 17805), +31 recoveries (now 104621) 🔸 US: +308 cases (now 42751), +3 deaths (now 520) 🔹 Austria: +6 cases (now 4474) 🔹 Brazil: +195 cases (now 1891) 🔹 Canada: +14 cases (now 2049) 🔹 Cayman Islands: +2 cases (now 5) 🔹 Denmark: +13 recoveries (now 14) 🔹 Dominican Republic: +3 recoveries (now 3) [... want %more?] | 22:38 |
| LjL | random metallic-tasting papules on the lower palate under the tongue aren't a symptom are they | 22:38 |
| eaxomar | hehe like they couldn't manage that on their own | 22:38 |
| eaxomar | LjL that sounds more like radiation poisoning. But I heard a loss of taste is a symptom | 22:39 |
| berndj | eleklytr[m], look up "salem hypothesis". they probably genuinely believe it, bizarrely despite having an education that should make them immune to such crap | 22:39 |
| LjL | <eaxomar> it's 10% of confirmed infections <eaxomar> but there's no testing ← true on the first point, but i definitely wouldn't go nearly as far as "no testing". due to the very many cases, testing is limited to symptomatic people, but Italy is one of the countries that tested the most, and i believe the most in Europe | 22:40 |
| LjL | eaxomar, radiation is most likely not a concern at least | 22:40 |
| eleklytr[m] | <berndj "eleklytr, look up "salem hypothe"> oh wow it has a name. thanks. no i can read the whole night in quarantine | 22:41 |
| eleklytr[m] | > <@freenode_berndj:matrix.org> eleklytr, look up "salem hypothesis". they probably genuinely believe it, bizarrely despite having an education that should make them immune to such crap | 22:41 |
| eleklytr[m] | * oh wow it has a name. thanks. now i can read the whole night in quarantine. | 22:41 |
| eaxomar | LjL I don't doubt it, but I doubt they test/tested people until they both have 1) contact with a confirmed carrier. 2) serious symptoms | 22:42 |
| eaxomar | if only because their health system is overwhelmed | 22:42 |
| eaxomar | If you have more info on the subject I'd welcome it | 22:42 |
| fructose | Weird to see a non-science being used to explain non-science | 22:43 |
| berndj | what interactions are there between covid-19 and (treated) HIV and TB? | 22:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 21:41 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito — from WHO at 21:41: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/5PlxFI | 22:44 |
| eaxomar | Here we're not overwhelmed at all and it's still extremely difficult to get a test. They don't do it unless you're experiencing threatening symptoms. | 22:44 |
| LjL | eaxomar, no, you're roughly right, that's who they're testing. i just thought it was fair to point out that they ARE testing a lot, as many as they can... just, they also have an overwhelming amount of sick, compared to other countries | 22:44 |
| LjL | but the number of tests deployed is amount the highest in the world | 22:44 |
| berndj | LjL, do you know what the testing bottleneck is? | 22:45 |
| cheetah2 | cews: unquiet me | 22:45 |
| eaxomar | let me be clear, i'm not critisizing them. at all. I just mean the number of actual infection is very probably an order of magnitude higher than the confirmed cases | 22:45 |
| eaxomar | and so you should take the numbers with a bit of detachment in regard to mortality. | 22:46 |
| LjL | cheetah2, this is not the channel to discuss that sort of thing, take it to PM please | 22:47 |
| LjL | berndj, not sure, but i suspect personnel. apparently we sent 500k test swabs to the US... it was rightly pointed out to me *swabs* is not *kits*, but still, it makes me suspect it's not the tests themselves that are missing | 22:47 |
| LjL | berndj, additionally, the whole PPE thing... even if you have someone to send to test someone who's self-isolating at home, you're jeopardizing that person you're sending, especially given the lack of PPE | 22:48 |
| LjL | so just let them stay in isolation, then if they develop symptoms, you take them to hospital and see. if not, good for them | 22:48 |
| LjL | it's not great for statistics, but it might be the best for management | 22:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 21:43 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Sud Africa — from WHO at 21:43: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/LBpb7j | 22:50 |
| Biep[m] | <AimHere "oriba, Germany is the one countr"> Isn't Norway even lower? | 22:50 |
| berndj | LjL, ok yeah all that suiting up/down must be a big part of it. are people not able to self-collect samples? | 22:50 |
| AimHere | Biep[m], perhaps. Germany is notoriously low, though | 22:51 |
| LjL | berndj, people have been working on self-collection. Bill Gates is deploying it to Seattle last i heard. however i don't think it's widespread... i think i don't want to know *exactly*, but i hear it involves a throat swab *and* a back-of-the-nose swab, which is unpleasant enouguh when someone else is doing it for you, and probably unfeasible to do yourself | 22:52 |
| Biep[m] | !cases Norway | 22:52 |
| CovBot | In Norway there have been a total of 2,621 cases as of 2020-03-23 21:45:00 UTC. Of these 2,605 (99.4%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 6 (0.2%) have definitely recovered and 10 (0.4%) have died. | 22:52 |
| Biep[m] | !cases Germany | 22:52 |
| CovBot | In Germany there have been a total of 29,056 cases as of 2020-03-23 21:45:00 UTC. Of these 28,480 (98.0%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 453 (1.6%) have definitely recovered and 123 (0.4%) have died. | 22:52 |
| LjL | age groups for germany anyone? | 22:53 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +279 cases (now 409211), +2 deaths (now 17807), +9 recoveries (now 104630) 🔸 Illinois, US: +235 cases (now 1285), +3 deaths (now 12) 🔸 California, US: +203 cases (now 2076), +3 deaths (now 38) 🔹 Australia: +114 cases (now 1831) 🔹 Austria: +6 cases (now 4474) 🔹 Brazil: +195 cases (now 1891) 🔹 Canada: +14 cases (now 2049) [... want %more?] | 22:53 |
| LjL | i've largely ignored their low mortality rates so far | 22:53 |
| LjL | but now i want to know | 22:53 |
| berndj | LjL, so i guess just spitting into a tube isn't good enough? | 22:53 |
| Biep[m] | Germany has the highest median age in the EU. | 22:53 |
| LjL | berndj, apparently not, but it may depend on the sensitivity of the test... | 22:53 |
| LjL | Biep[m], uh, does it | 22:53 |
| LjL | %wa median age in Germany | 22:53 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Germany | median age): Result: 45.9 years (world rank: 3rd) (2015 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=median+age+in+Germany | 22:54 |
| LjL | %wa median age in Italy | 22:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Italy | median age): Result: 45.9 years (world rank: 2nd) (2015 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=median+age+in+Italy | 22:54 |
| LjL | okay... well, a tie | 22:54 |
| LjL | well that does the opposite of explaining why the mortality rates are so different | 22:54 |
| Biep[m] | Maybe the death toll in Italy has made Germany the winner? | 22:54 |
| LjL | but maybe the *patients* are differently aged | 22:55 |
| LjL | so i want to know about the age groups | 22:55 |
| LjL | Biep[m], ? | 22:55 |
| berndj | LjL, yeah i strongly suspect that, but don't have any data to point to | 22:55 |
| berndj | TL;DR: germans hate their grandparents so they never visit them | 22:55 |
| LjL | berndj, well i know where to find the age groups for italy, but i'm missing the other half | 22:55 |
| Biep[m] | The WA data are from 2015. Recently lots of old people in Italy have died, depressing the median age. | 22:55 |
| Biep[m] | Germany has a health culture. Maybe comorbidity is less? | 22:56 |
| LjL | berndj, yes i have a growing suspicion that a lot of italy's high death rate has to do with cross-generational contact, people live with their parents, sometimes people with children in turn | 22:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:44 UTC: Coronavirus live updates Australia: 149 new cases in NSW as premier vows to crack down on rule-breakers – latest: National cabinet to consider lockdowns of Covid-19 hotspots as government predicts at least 1 million people will need unemployment benefits, and parliament is suspended until August. Follow all the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Gl2igM | 22:56 |
| Biep[m] | Quite hypochondriac, actually, if you ask me.. | 22:56 |
| berndj | Biep[m], germans smoke more than italians | 22:56 |
| berndj | yeah, +1 re: hypochondriac germans. maybe more likely to go to the doctor sooner rather than later? | 22:57 |
| LjL | which would mean they smoke a fair bit | 22:57 |
| LjL | berndj, psh, we're at the doctor's all the time | 22:57 |
| Biep[m] | But smokers die early, so those won't be among the very old. | 22:57 |
| berndj | but what is the age structure of smoking in the two countries? | 22:57 |
| LjL | berndj, https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15987082 | 22:57 |
| oriba | German beer is good for health! :-) | 22:57 |
| LjL | *burp* | 22:58 |
| Biep[m] | Yes, deslugging, quarterly total check-ups, health baths (with check-ups again), .. | 22:58 |
| Biep[m] | Corona beer isn't secretly German, is it? | 22:58 |
| oriba | no mexican I think | 22:58 |
| oriba | thats why it makes sick ;-) | 22:58 |
| LjL | the heck is deslugging | 22:59 |
| LjL | also quarterly total check-ups are available with free healthcare? | 22:59 |
| Biep[m] | Is the virus water soluble or fat soluble? Many Germans have a high fat intake. | 23:00 |
| davidmpye[m] | what you eat seems fairly irrelevant to a respiratory virus | 23:01 |
| Biep[m] | If fat in the mouth cavity makes it harder for the virus to pass.. | 23:01 |
| oriba | ... 'the goal "of uniting the efforts of German physicians in creating and developing the fields of anaesthesiology, intensive care, emergency medicine and pain therapy, and to provide the highest possible standard of care for the population in these fields"' | 23:01 |
| oriba | https://www.dgai.de/die-dgai/aufgaben-und-ziele/about-us.html | 23:01 |
| Biep[m] | But I wasn't too serious. | 23:01 |
| berndj | LjL, how much (especially random) testing has germany done, compared to its neighbours? | 23:02 |
| oriba | https://www.thelocal.de/20200318/germany-ramps-up-intensive-care-and-hospital-capacity-in-coronavirus-fight | 23:03 |
| Biep[m] | <LjL "the heck is deslugging"> It is based on the weird and false concept that the gut lining collects random bits of material, and needs to be cleaned every now and then. So there is fasting involved, klysmas, drinking lots of water from medicinal sources, .. | 23:04 |
| LjL | berndj, so far i'm not aware of any country except Iceland having done *random* testing. but have this https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-19-tests-country?country=AUS+AUT+BEL+BRA+COL+FIN+FRA+DEU+ITA+NOR+PAK+RUS+KOR+GBR+USA+VNM+ESP | 23:04 |
| LjL | Biep[m], oh, that. sigh. | 23:04 |
| oriba | LjL: the links I sent might explain the numbers | 23:05 |
| LjL | also https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tests-vs-confirmed-cases-covid-19-per-million | 23:05 |
| LjL | oriba, even with the best intensive care in the world, china's data showed that 5% of cases were critical, and of that, about half died even with ICU. now 0.4% is a whole lot smaller than 2.5%, even thouguh 2.5% is in turn a lot smaller than... 10% or so | 23:06 |
| Biep[m] | What is the status of the blood group correlation? | 23:06 |
| LjL | Biep[m], still plausible i think | 23:07 |
| Metamorphosis | I can't believe it. All offices and organizations in Iran are back to their normal business as of tomorrow.... | 23:07 |
| LjL | nothing to discredit it | 23:07 |
| Biep[m] | It seems Belgian TV told people not to trust it. | 23:07 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 US: +213 cases (now 42964), +6 deaths (now 526) 🔹 Australia: +114 cases (now 1831) 🔹 Austria: +6 cases (now 4474) 🔹 Brazil: +195 cases (now 1891) 🔹 Canada: +56 cases (now 2091) 🔹 Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada: +15 cases (now 24) 🔹 Saskatchewan, Canada: +2 cases (now 54) 🔹 Cayman Islands: +2 cases (now 5) 🔹 Congo (Brazzaville): +1 cases (now 4) [... want %more?] | 23:08 |
| Timvde | Blood group correlation? | 23:08 |
| LjL | Metamorphosis, oh, Iran there? are the numbers we get anywhere near reliable...? I mean, nobody's numbers are, but Iran's seemed particularly marginal compared to the situation we get to hear about | 23:08 |
| LjL | Timvde, yes there is a paper | 23:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:01 UTC: Coronavirus live news: UK goes into lockdown as WHO warns global spread of virus is accelerating: UK lockdown – live updates How UK lockdown compares with other countries US coronavirus live updates Australia coronavirus live updates See all of our coronavirus coverage [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bEuiim | 23:08 |
| Timvde | Since Belgian news said not to trust it, let's read Belgian news :P | 23:08 |
| LjL | Timvde, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.11.20031096v1 | 23:09 |
| LjL | Biep[m], well did they also give reasons for not trusting it? | 23:09 |
| Timvde | Yes, our public news site links to it | 23:10 |
| Biep[m] | I'll ask. A Belgian asked me after hearing it on VRT. | 23:11 |
| LjL | to be fair... who trusts *Belgians*? | 23:11 |
| Biep[m] | I think it was not reproducible. | 23:11 |
| Timvde | Biep[m]: I'm Belgian | 23:11 |
| LjL | they don't even trust each other | 23:11 |
| Timvde | HEY | 23:11 |
| Timvde | I'll give you the tl;dr of the article | 23:11 |
| Timvde | - The paper is not peer-reviewed | 23:11 |
| LjL | - None of these papers have had time to be peer-reviewed | 23:12 |
| Timvde | - The data is from quite a small group, and they don't elaborate on who they picked (was it random or is there any bias? Not clear.) | 23:12 |
| LjL | - Not so small really, but fair | 23:12 |
| Metamorphosis | Iran has never declared a public emergency since the start of the Corona crisis. Offices are open and private companies continue to operate despite serious risks. | 23:13 |
| Biep[m] | Timvde: Do you have any qualification that might make your opinion weigh? If so I'd like to connect you to this 70+ couple, both of whom are O, and could use some uplifting news. | 23:13 |
| Biep[m] | He is on matrix. | 23:13 |
| LjL | "A total of 1,775 patients with COVID-19, including 206 dead cases, from Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital, Wuhan, China were recruited. Another 113 and 285 patients with COVID-19 were respectively recruited from Renmin Hospital of Wuhan University, Wuhan and Shenzhen Third People's Hospital, Shenzhen, China." ← I don't call this small | 23:13 |
| Timvde | Biep[m]: I can understand Dutch and read the Belgian news | 23:13 |
| Timvde | That's pretty much as far as my qualification goes | 23:13 |
| Timvde | I'm literally just translating | 23:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus* at 22:06 UTC: Coronavirus: Coronavirus task force holds briefing at the White House | Watch Live — from WHO at 22:06: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/8QCVnX | 23:14 |
| Biep[m] | OK. And you have picked up a lot of info from following the Covid news from nearby. | 23:14 |
| Biep[m] | Can I connect you? | 23:14 |
| Timvde | - Related to the last point, the numbers actually differ between both cities. In Wuhan, there's more correlation with blood group A, while in Shenzhen AB seems to be more commonly represented | 23:14 |
| Timvde | Biep[m]: What are their actual questions? | 23:14 |
| LjL | Biep[m], i think giving "uplifting news" here would be more like giving false hopes: 1) it's *true* the paper is not peer-reviewed, now that doesn't mean its contents are false, just that the information we have is just in a very fluid state now, and 2) being O gives you somewhat better chances if the paper is right, but it doesn't safeguard you or anything | 23:15 |
| Timvde | I'm really not sure if I can help them... | 23:15 |
| Timvde | FWIW: I'm O and my mother is A, so I'm not sure if I hope the paper to be true or not... | 23:15 |
| Biep[m] | He is dejected that their O blood type doesn't give the bit of protection he thought it might. | 23:15 |
| Biep[m] | My wife and I are both A+. | 23:16 |
| LjL | Biep[m], tell them that whether the paper is right or wrong, *behaviors* will make a much bigger difference | 23:16 |
| Timvde | - The used statistical method is enlarging the difference between A and O, according to the news site, the difference is actually rather small | 23:16 |
| Timvde | Biep[m]: I agree with LjL here. If having blood group O could help them, that's great. But it's by no means any reason to loosen the restrictions. | 23:17 |
| LjL | yuriwho, you may be interested in the above Belgian rebuttal | 23:17 |
| Biep[m] | LjL: Yes, they have isolated, their children are placing food outside the house. | 23:17 |
| LjL | yuriwho, also i'd like to PM when you're around | 23:17 |
| LjL | Biep[m], good | 23:17 |
| yuriwho | sure, after the Trump presser | 23:18 |
| oriba | Mortality after surgery in Europe: a 7 day cohort study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(12)61148-9/fulltext | 23:18 |
| Biep[m] | He has been on Riot for a few days now, still fumbling around, but at least having some social contact. | 23:18 |
| Timvde | And the final conclusion is indeed that regardless, it is irrelevant and you should follow the precautions, whichever blood group you have | 23:18 |
| Biep[m] | So partly it would also be about creating a bit of ersatz social life. | 23:19 |
| Timvde | I think that's probably the most important part: they're not saying the article is _wrong_, they're saying that they don't have enough proof that it's right, and you shouldn't rely on your blood group to be safe | 23:19 |
| LjL | yuriwho, oh, link? | 23:19 |
| yuriwho | https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/watch-live-president-trumps-coronavirus-task-force-holds-briefing.html | 23:20 |
| LjL | thank you | 23:20 |
| yuriwho | it's currently underway | 23:20 |
| yuriwho | but you can watch from the start | 23:20 |
| LjL | spacious[m]1, https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/watch-live-president-trumps-coronavirus-task-force-holds-briefing.html | 23:20 |
| LjL | yuriwho, did he say big things before now | 23:20 |
| LjL | it's been successful on malaria | 23:21 |
| yuriwho | I missed the start | 23:21 |
| LjL | that's obviously the main reason to try it | 23:21 |
| LjL | duh | 23:21 |
| Timvde | I was thinking the same | 23:21 |
| LjL | i'll watch the beginning at the end | 23:21 |
| Biep[m] | <Timvde "I think that's probably the most"> Oh, they certainly wouldn't *rely* on it - it is more about a glimmer of hope that with all the precautions they take they have a slightly higher probability if pulling through. | 23:21 |
| LjL | Spec, you will have to go around with your local DMV / ID | 23:22 |
| pyna | it's recommended to practice social distancing from trump pressers | 23:22 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 World: +2237 cases (now 411615), +108 deaths (now 17919) 🔸 Spain: +2047 cases (now 35136), +104 deaths (now 2311) 🔸 Brazil: +228 cases (now 1924) 🔹 Australia: +170 cases (now 1887) 🔹 Austria: +6 cases (now 4474) 🔹 Benin: +3 cases (now 5) 🔹 Canada: +56 cases (now 2091) 🔹 Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada: +15 cases (now 24) [... want %more?] | 23:23 |
| eaxomar | wondering how much body virus will make us question mind viruses | 23:23 |
| eaxomar | probably not much | 23:23 |
| Biep[m] | No, mind viruses are suppressing that. | 23:23 |
| aradesh | what's trump saying? | 23:23 |
| Biep[m] | Part of their survival strategy. | 23:23 |
| aradesh | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VJ8t3SltVk | 23:24 |
| aradesh | stream of him ^ | 23:24 |
| Timvde | "We will not allow people to use the suffering of other Americans for their own profit" | 23:24 |
| Timvde | That sounds kinda hypocritical, but okay :P | 23:24 |
| Biep[m] | So he renounces capitalism? | 23:24 |
| LjL | psh | 23:24 |
| aradesh | is he locking stuff down yet? | 23:25 |
| LjL | no | 23:25 |
| LjL | measures against hoarding, having to carry ID | 23:25 |
| aradesh | when do we think that will come? friday? next monday? | 23:25 |
| LjL | aradesh, i think the states will do most of it | 23:25 |
| LjL | many already have | 23:25 |
| Timvde | It also doesn't look like Trump and Barr are properly social distancing | 23:25 |
| pyna | no worries about hypocrisy, it's just a lie | 23:25 |
| Timvde | But hey, who am I to judge | 23:25 |
| Futurian | "Do as I say, not as I do"... ;-P | 23:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 22:23 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Tom Winter su Twitter: "NBC News: 129 members of the NYPD have tested positive for COVID-19, a senior law enforcement official says. As we reported last week, NYC Health guidance is that there will be no quarantines for first responders that are exposed to COVID-19. If they are sick they [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NLIJic | 23:27 |
| LjL | i'm not listening to the rest | 23:28 |
| LjL | instead i'm restarting it from the start | 23:28 |
| Futurian | Human behaviour is more interesting then ever at the minute. | 23:29 |
| LjL | did he just say "asian" or "aging" O.o | 23:30 |
| LjL | well, by "just" i mean in my personal stream | 23:31 |
| LjL | "Asian", wow | 23:31 |
| LjL | "It's very important that we totally protect our Asian-American community in the US and all around the world... they're amazing people, and the spreading of the virus is not their fault in any way, shape or form, they're working closely with us to get rid of it, we will prevail together" | 23:32 |
| LjL | does that really need being said | 23:32 |
| Timvde | Who is she? | 23:32 |
| eaxomar | It doesn't hurt | 23:32 |
| Timvde | LjL: Honestly, I'm not sure it doesn't need to be said | 23:33 |
| LjL | eaxomar, i don't know, it seems to single out by saying they must not be singled-out | 23:33 |
| LjL | but that may be my own mentality | 23:33 |
| eaxomar | Honestly, at this point you have to wonder 'what could he do to satisfy me'? | 23:33 |
| Timvde | And I wouldn't be surprised if Trump had said the opposite tbh :P | 23:33 |
| eaxomar | I profoundly dislike the guy, but don't like the dislike taint every single word or action | 23:34 |
| eaxomar | *don't let | 23:34 |
| LjL | eaxomar, did you see me criticizing the remaining 95% or so of his speech so far? | 23:34 |
| LjL | also i'd rather not be... satisfied by him, really | 23:34 |
| eaxomar | hehehe | 23:34 |
| eaxomar | maybe i'm projecting | 23:35 |
| eaxomar | but you see what I mean? coming from him, it's almost heart warming | 23:35 |
| LjL | maybe i don't understand America enough *shrug* | 23:36 |
| Timvde | LjL: It's okay, nobody really does | 23:36 |
| LjL | Timvde, at least it's easier than Belgium | 23:36 |
| eaxomar | I'm not american either. it's just that I'm so used to the guy being divisive, this sounds like progress | 23:36 |
| Timvde | We're just a special snowflake :D | 23:37 |
| LjL | aw don't use that term, i hate it when people do. though not you, i hate it when it's used in the other direction | 23:37 |
| Timvde | Oh, I definitely wouldn't call anyone else a special snowflake | 23:38 |
| Brainstorm | 🔸 US: +427 cases (now 43449), +15 deaths (now 545) 🔸 Switzerland: +248 cases (now 8795), +2 deaths (now 120) 🔸 French Polynesia, France: +19856 cases (now 19874), +860 deaths (now 860), +2200 recoveries (now 2200) 🔸 France: +267 cases (now 20123), +2 deaths (now 862), +7 recoveries (now 2207) 🔹 Australia: +170 cases (now 1887) [... want %more?] | 23:38 |
| Timvde | But we're trained to laugh with our own country | 23:38 |
| LjL | Trump's talking about someone who was about to die but the drugs saved him, and meanwhile he had "said goodbye to his family" | 23:39 |
| LjL | that's good for them i guess, because here, if you are in the infected ward, there is no seeing family :( | 23:39 |
| LjL | and when you die, they can't see the body either, you must be cremated or buried within 24h | 23:39 |
| Timvde | LjL: could've been by video call | 23:39 |
| eaxomar | :( | 23:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 22:38 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: BBC News (World) su Twitter: "How do you know if you’re just ill, or if you have the symptoms of coronavirus? Follow the latest coronavirus news, across the BBC: https://t.co/JJOaH361As… https://t.co/gI1SBicx5b" [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/HC8YDN | 23:39 |
| LjL | okay, she's back at the malaria part | 23:40 |
| LjL | i'm not sure i can summarize what he said in the first part | 23:40 |
| LjL | supplies to states | 23:40 |
| Timvde | LjL: "She"? Are you ahead of me or waaayyy behind? | 23:40 |
| LjL | and good drugs | 23:40 |
| LjL | O.o | 23:40 |
| Timvde | Pence has been talking for a few minutes already | 23:40 |
| LjL | sometimes i do weird things with pronouns | 23:40 |
| LjL | not the first time | 23:40 |
| LjL | Timvde, oh thank god i was listening to trump | 23:41 |
| Biep[m] | <LjL "that's good for them i guess, be"> Maybe that's what "say goodbye to" meant..? | 23:41 |
| dunnp | 12 states with stay at home orders now | 23:41 |
| dunnp | 39% of US pop | 23:41 |
| dunnp | facebook donated their emergency reserve of >700k N95 masks | 23:43 |
| dunnp | why the hell does facebook have an emergency mask reserve | 23:43 |
| LjL | that was going to be my next question | 23:43 |
| bin_bash | construction uses most likely | 23:43 |
| LjL | mind a PM, dunnp? | 23:43 |
| dunnp | bin_bash: facebook? | 23:44 |
| dunnp | sure | 23:44 |
| bin_bash | yes | 23:44 |
| dunnp | facebook doesn't do construction afaik | 23:44 |
| bin_bash | ...facebook has new campuses built and existing campuses modified | 23:45 |
| Futurian | Mark's A.I. predictively purchased them... | 23:45 |
| dunnp | bin_bash: they had a building by Stanford and then they moved like5 years ago to menlo park | 23:45 |
| bin_bash | yes and theyre currently building new campuses in different areas | 23:45 |
| dunnp | apparently it was their stockpile from the CA forest fires | 23:45 |
| dunnp | LjL: sure | 23:45 |
| bin_bash | as well as expanding/modifying some others. large companies often have leftover construction material/protective gear | 23:45 |
| Futurian | 700,000? All the same type...? | 23:46 |
| bin_bash | do you know what n95 respirators are? | 23:46 |
| bin_bash | serious question | 23:46 |
| bin_bash | because university labs often have dozens or hundreds of them for lab uses | 23:46 |
| bin_bash | and large companies that actively do construction would also likely order them en masse | 23:47 |
| Futurian | K, but 700,000 is the number they're willing to declare as "reserves" | 23:47 |
| bin_bash | yeah it's quite a lot lol | 23:48 |
| bin_bash | honestly it wouldnt surprise me if they bought a future contract with 3M with physical delivery lol | 23:48 |
| Timvde | "They are paying big salaries and big dollars to our workers" | 23:48 |
| Timvde | "big dollars", lol | 23:49 |
| Timvde | Also, that's not the feeling I get when I hear about most American workers, but okay | 23:49 |
| dunnp | https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10111697064311151 | 23:49 |
| Futurian | Might as well have your own factory at that point... | 23:52 |
| dunnp | JHU map now showing US counties | 23:53 |
| LjL | dunnp, ugh. tinwhiskers will love that | 23:55 |
| Futurian | I can't get over that figure, 700,000... Facebook... Masks.Nothing makes sense anymore 8-) | 23:56 |
| Albright | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPLgsV_Ms3Q | 23:56 |
| Brainstorm | Albright: From www.youtube.com: Neil Diamond “Hands.. washing hands” - YouTube | 23:56 |
| Biep[m] | Cov Bot doesn't know all counties yet. | 23:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 22:56 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: https://www.france24.com/en/20200323-virus-kills-2-senior-military-officers-in-egypt — from WHO at 22:56: Preventing COVID-19 outbreak in prisons: a challenging but essential task for authorities → https://is.gd/kXBID9 | 23:57 |
| dunnp | trump just freaked out when the doc talking said she had a low grade fever a few days ago heh | 23:58 |
| LjL | Birosso, https://www.france24.com/en/20200323-virus-kills-2-senior-military-officers-in-egypt | 23:58 |
| LjL | dunnp, aw, too bad i stopped the stream | 23:58 |
| dunnp | she got a test and was negative though | 23:59 |
| Timvde | "We're not looking at months" | 23:59 |
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