| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:58 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: France daily death toll slows, Dubai imposes two-week lockdown: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | Milan Mayor Sala says "there are too many people around", as mobility is at 38% (measured using i don't know what metric, maybe Google's data), which is the highest since lockdown started | 00:03 |
| Spec | LjL: D: | 00:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 22:04 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Testing in the US, which had plateaued for roughly a week at around 100k/day, has now resumed growth. — from r/WorldNews at 22:04: HIV drug leronlimab, which successfully treats coronavirus, moving to phase 2 trials → https://is.gd/Xnx0gQ | 00:06 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: how many weeks has it been now? | 00:06 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, not sure, i think the first Lombardy-wide lockdown was on either march 8 or 11 (prior to that we had small quarantine areas) | 00:07 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: we have some low quality rain water afaik | 00:07 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, but the flavor of lockdown changed many times | 00:07 |
| tinwhiskers | So 4 weeks might be about the extent of what some people can take. I wonder if that will play out elsewhere. | 00:08 |
| LjL | Spec, now we are required to wear masks in public in Lombardy (and Veneto i think) | 00:08 |
| LjL | or scarves, since we can't all have masks, clearly | 00:08 |
| LjL | in Veneto they gave each family 3 masks i understand | 00:08 |
| LjL | the central government is still being like "they can do it if they want but we don't recommend it" | 00:08 |
| tinwhiskers | Spec: Actually the rain water is great water. It tastes wonderful and is better than most bottled drinking water. We don't have any air pollution here though, so other than the bat and bird poop it's great :-) | 00:09 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: Yay! #Masks4All | 00:09 |
| tinwhiskers | That's really great news and the rest of the world needs to catch up. | 00:09 |
| LjL | "Great water except for the poop in it" wouldn't make an effective bottle water ad | 00:09 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 00:09 |
| Spec | LjL: required | 00:10 |
| tinwhiskers | The Czech republic made 10 million masks in a week | 00:11 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: yeah, we have acid rains for sure, i assume from air pollutions | 00:11 |
| LjL | Spec, yes, went straight from "not recommended" to "required", isn't it great | 00:11 |
| tinwhiskers | I mean, the people there made 10 million fabric masks, not commercial N95s | 00:11 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: effective ones (to block spread) or feel-good? | 00:12 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, but until yesterday or so, fabric masks were thought to be worse than nothing by the WHO | 00:12 |
| LjL | "thought" as in their recommendations, based on some mystery studies i haven't read or found | 00:12 |
| tinwhiskers | Spec: effective ones. While they don't prevent a person getting infected very well they do prevent a person who is infected from spreading it. "Your mask protects me. My mask protects you" | 00:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:10 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Birx warns mortality will peak in New Orleans and Detroit next week: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 00:12 |
| tinwhiskers | Spec: I'd encourage you to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtEX2-n2Hc and join the movement. Empower people to save lives. | 00:15 |
| tinwhiskers | %title | 00:15 |
| Brainstorm | tinwhiskers: From www.youtube.com: How to Significantly Slow Coronavirus? #Masks4All (featuring Minister of Health of the Czech Rep.) - YouTube | 00:15 |
| tinwhiskers | Bear in mind the WHO is now saying the same thing. This is advice we really, really need to spread. | 00:16 |
| Toadisattva | I had to go to the nursery and the IFA today, was pleased to see all the employees at both places with their faces covered | 00:16 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, as long as we spread it loud and clear, with lots of spit in our consonants! | 00:16 |
| tinwhiskers | :-p | 00:16 |
| LjL | what's IFA? | 00:16 |
| Toadisattva | IfA country store, it's like a farm store | 00:17 |
| LjL | ah | 00:17 |
| LjL | as in agricultural produce made near you? | 00:17 |
| Toadisattva | as in like baby chicks, lawn and garden supplies, livestock food, farm tools that kinda thing | 00:18 |
| Toadisattva | being around the chickens was kinda scary, I'm like I wonder how well this spreads to poultry lol | 00:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:15 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Birx warns mortality will peak in NY, New Orleans and Detroit next week: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 00:18 |
| Toadisattva | at the nursery they had actual masks, at the farm store they all had bandanas | 00:20 |
| Toadisattva | I even seent a few customers wearing masks | 00:20 |
| Toadisattva | it's kinda nice to not be the only person in a mask with everyone giving you that death glare | 00:20 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 00:20 |
| linext | here are the new cases where I live: https://www.insidernj.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/92125762_2917613431620675_4197302625906982912_o.jpg | 00:20 |
| linext | population of about 1 million | 00:21 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, that kind of thinking is silly. i don't mean that to insult, i had it going through my head myself the first time i wore a mask and people here were not yet all "on board" with the fact we had a serious disease around... but it's still kinda silly that we require a "quorum" before we can do something sensible without feeling weird | 00:21 |
| Toadisattva | ouch | 00:21 |
| Toadisattva | that's a pretty steep curve | 00:21 |
| linext | Today was more | 00:22 |
| LjL | at least it's been linear for the last three times? | 00:22 |
| LjL | oh in that case | 00:22 |
| LjL | i've never even seen the curve for Milan-proper | 00:22 |
| linext | https://www.state.nj.us/health/cd/topics/covid2019_dashboard.shtml?fbclid=IwAR1d0CWsqOBEKTD7nIiVEg-UN9R4Eoxxzj9P8FR1sjTrUYH553JrL5SV4IM&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery | 00:22 |
| Toadisattva | people are just ignorant they got told for the last month they don't need a mask | 00:22 |
| Toadisattva | only wear it if your sick and so on | 00:23 |
| LjL | nice, that gets added to site | 00:23 |
| Toadisattva | can't really blame em for not understanding the implications fully when they aren't being properly informed | 00:23 |
| LjL | yeah. | 00:24 |
| berndj | i saw a video featuring some mmcdonalds workers striking? protesting? for safer working conditions... but they were standing right on top of each other while doing so :( | 00:27 |
| Toadisattva | I can and do 100% blame the CDC and WHO for putting out false and dangerous information and causing a huge amount of preventable deaths | 00:27 |
| Butterfly^ | Karen calls corona a hoax on March 14th, Karen dies from corona less than 3 weeks later: https://i.imgur.com/1JIJChf.jpg | 00:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 22:24 UTC: ljl-covid: Add NJ dashboard — from r/WorldNews at 22:24: HIV drug leronlimab, which successfully treats coronavirus, moving to phase 2 trials → https://is.gd/sqQIKm | 00:31 |
| Toadisattva | Karen shoulda wore a mask | 00:32 |
| graphine | karen is a nice name | 00:33 |
| graphine | who is it? | 00:33 |
| LjL | i don't like to gloat about people who died even if they were silly :( | 00:36 |
| graphine | dang | 00:36 |
| graphine | she died :-( | 00:36 |
| graphine | thats sad | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:27 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Trump tells Americans to take unproven anti-malaria drug — from r/WorldNews at 22:27: HIV drug leronlimab, which successfully treats coronavirus, moving to phase 2 trials → https://is.gd/7mtTid | 00:37 |
| LjL | the NYT has apparently published an "authored" video from Milan under lockdown... https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000007062353/coronavirus-messages-from-quarantine.html this is pretty ugly, it's not really what "Milan" is to me, but i'm privileged and live near the city center. i've only skipped through the video but it all looks like very big and very ugly suburb housing, see Spec what our "suburbs" are like? bit different from America | 00:37 |
| Butterfly^ | wasn't that around the time that Trump said "it'll all be over in 2 weeks, like, one day, it'll be gone, like a miracle, we'll have zero deaths" | 00:37 |
| graphine | trump can talk? | 00:37 |
| Butterfly^ | 'talk' | 00:37 |
| graphine | thought he is a bird | 00:37 |
| Toadisattva | he said that | 00:38 |
| Butterfly^ | he talks like a 7yo kid | 00:38 |
| graphine | just twitters | 00:38 |
| Butterfly^ | such bullshit from Trump is directly killing people like Karen | 00:38 |
| graphine | i am sorry that we germans send him over to you | 00:38 |
| Toadisattva | can you take him back now plz | 00:39 |
| graphine | we have no death penalty anymore | 00:39 |
| graphine | so not sure lol | 00:39 |
| IronY | there is about a 1% chance this karen screen shot is real | 00:39 |
| IronY | screen shots | 00:39 |
| IronY | not real on the internet since (insert invention of viral images) | 00:39 |
| LjL | let's not be overly childish, *even* if it's about Trump | 00:40 |
| graphine | yes true i am sorry | 00:40 |
| graphine | LjL, | 00:40 |
| graphine | here in germany some officials start to talk non sense as well | 00:41 |
| LjL | i think that's a common thing with officials ;( | 00:41 |
| graphine | on said it will not kill more people than a regular flu but even here in germany it already did | 00:41 |
| graphine | its just that the economy starts to want to take over | 00:42 |
| graphine | but people are more important than money | 00:42 |
| IronY | there is a balance between preventing deaths to covid and preventing deaths due to starvation and collapse of society | 00:44 |
| AimHere | IronY, that facebook screenie seems to be verified by the moderators of r/leopardsatemyface for what that's worth. I think it probably is real | 00:44 |
| aldwich | but we should not underestimate the total financial costs across the economies in lock-down. mind-blowing. | 00:44 |
| IronY | AimHere: Its on knowyourmeme | 00:44 |
| AimHere | IronY, so? | 00:44 |
| IronY | AimHere: the only way to know its real is to get karen to add u to facebook, and if its real thats probably not happening | 00:44 |
| IronY | AimHere: It could very well be real | 00:45 |
| aldwich | as regards the german economy, i would not be surprised if parts of the car industry, throw in the odd bank and lufthansa will be in state ownership very soon | 00:45 |
| AimHere | IronY, well apparently the guy who upped it to the internet also sourced it. | 00:46 |
| LjL | graphine, i saw a video from a German doctor that was a bit creepy... and just incorrect. it was taken on March 18 so certain things were not yet "obvious"... but, uhm, they were pretty obvious to me, just not to this doctor, apparently. and i'm not even a doctor. | 00:46 |
| IronY | sourced it how man, the source is the screen shot lol, It is probably real, Ill agree on that, but since neither you or I can actually confirm that on our own, it might not be aswell | 00:46 |
| aldwich | plus anxilliary businesses, mainly "mittelstand", they are properly stuffed. no access to capital markets/funding waiting and hoping for rescue packages | 00:46 |
| tinwhiskers | Unfortunately I can't view that Milan video for some reason :-( | 00:47 |
| AimHere | https://www.gofundme.com/f/khucq-help-the-sehlke-family <- this is the family; proof that she did die of Covid19 | 00:48 |
| IronY | AimHere: Ur not following | 00:48 |
| IronY | AimHere: Are you on karens facebook? | 00:48 |
| IronY | AimHere: Can you see her timeline? | 00:48 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, well the NYT loves blocking people and asking them to subscribe. just nevermind and have some better Milan instead https://www.flickr.com/photos/ljlbox/ | 00:48 |
| tinwhiskers | Nice | 00:48 |
| LjL | (and also some not-Milan but mostly Milan) | 00:48 |
| AimHere | IronY, the point is that the guy who uploaded it to the internet was challenged by an apparently disinterested third party - the moderator of a reddit group - who verified that *he* was satisfied with the source | 00:49 |
| IronY | Lol, I give up | 00:49 |
| IronY | *a guy on reddit said it was legit* | 00:49 |
| AimHere | Right, but this is a guy whose job it is to screen out fakes | 00:49 |
| graphine | i see LjL | 00:49 |
| Toadisattva | if a guy on reddit said it's legit | 00:49 |
| AimHere | I mean yeah, I know it's not absolute proof. Which is why I hedged with 'probably' | 00:49 |
| Toadisattva | it's clearly legit | 00:49 |
| IronY | ^ | 00:49 |
| IronY | It is his JOB | 00:49 |
| graphine | to be a doctor doesnt count today anymore i guess LjL | 00:50 |
| AimHere | But the point is that if it's a conspiracy to forge a post, a *specific* dude has to be in on it. | 00:50 |
| IronY | AimHere: What most likely happened, is someone went to go fund me, found a very left leaning family, grabbed a photo, forged a facebook post, and went viral | 00:50 |
| AimHere | Left-leaning? | 00:50 |
| IronY | It is a large family at a country fair | 00:51 |
| IronY | Basically stock photography for a southern family | 00:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2265 cases (now 1199060), +77 deaths (now 64641), +55 recoveries (now 246165) since an hour ago — US: +1655 cases (now 309344), +52 deaths (now 8427), +55 recoveries (now 14741) since an hour ago — California, US: +911 cases (now 13550) since 3 hours ago | 00:51 |
| IronY | county fair* | 00:51 |
| IronY | no idea how to spell that, we don't use that term here lol | 00:51 |
| AimHere | IronY, your theory doesn't explain how he got the moderator of the reddit group to verify him. | 00:52 |
| IronY | LOL | 00:52 |
| AimHere | It's also not a stock image. The woman is on facebook | 00:52 |
| AimHere | Under that name | 00:52 |
| tinwhiskers | fwiw, the people in the photo on the gofundme page do look lik ethe same people from the FB screenshot. | 00:53 |
| Toadisattva | my local health department keeps touting we are only seeing a 5% infectino rate, but I've been running the daily numbers for a couple weeks and it's been sitting at a solid 20% | 00:53 |
| IronY | Someone add karen to facebook, lets get to the bottom of this | 00:53 |
| AimHere | The same photo is on the facebook page | 00:53 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: don't unless you want to cringe | 00:54 |
| Toadisattva | tea stroll for the win | 00:54 |
| IronY | LjL: It is a very political 'Virus does not exist' rant, followed by some comments saying 'Karens dead now', the only thing that makes it look fake is the fact it is so overly politically crazy that it is just super viral photo worthy | 00:54 |
| tinwhiskers | Some ignorant woman died | 00:54 |
| IronY | almost like it is to good to be true | 00:54 |
| Biep[m] | <gaZ-mAnIaC "its the right of everyone to be "> Except of those who have been put in jail without reasonable cause? | 00:55 |
| Biep[m] | (Which in turn means that those who put them there should have been..) | 00:55 |
| LjL | i don't find it good based on that description, i find it sad, unfortunate, somewhat enraging perhaps | 00:55 |
| IronY | LjL: your reaction is exactly why it is the perfect 'viral' material | 00:55 |
| IronY | reading comments like 'I am not sad she died' is disgusting imo | 00:56 |
| IronY | people are dumb, wish death on no one | 00:56 |
| bin_bash | what are you guys even trying to figure out? | 00:56 |
| IronY | bin_bash: Who keeps asking for the manager | 00:56 |
| bin_bash | lolol | 00:56 |
| bin_bash | i was abiut to ask that | 00:56 |
| ubLIX | IronY: seems to me it was shot in the meme wars and as such hardly welcome here | 00:56 |
| AimHere | Hmm, IronY, on her husbands page, there's someone with a screenshot of the same rant, except it's formatted differently - i.e. it's as if two different people screencapped the same facebook page | 00:56 |
| ubLIX | can we stop talking about it now? | 00:57 |
| Toadisattva | nope 3 more minutes at least | 00:58 |
| IronY | LOOL | 00:58 |
| IronY | ubLIX: I mean in honesty I have not actually laughed IRL all day and this is hilarious | 00:58 |
| IronY | so at least it is keeping spirits up? | 00:58 |
| IronY | lol | 00:58 |
| ubLIX | well glad that you're laughing | 00:58 |
| IronY | sorry, I am laughing at the fact the world is burning and we all just took 10 mins to discuss karen | 00:58 |
| IronY | the situation is so absurd it is hilarious | 00:59 |
| ubLIX | i guess, when you put it like that | 00:59 |
| AimHere | Karen gets her 15 minutes of posthumous fame | 01:00 |
| IronY | Calling it now, when this is over (being optimistic), there is going to be so many what if / conspiracy / blame / essays / etc etc video on covid 19 youtube is going to need a second site | 01:01 |
| tinwhiskers | Blankspace: How's things going in India from your point of view? | 01:01 |
| tinwhiskers | Blankspace_: ^ | 01:02 |
| AimHere | Hopefully. The alternative is that my youtube sidebar gets flooded with "Covid19 is a <something> hoax" the way it was full of "Ben Shapiro Pwns Feminist Libtards with FACTS and REASON" a couple years back | 01:02 |
| IronY | AimHere: Take all 9/11 content, and multiply it by every city in the world | 01:03 |
| AimHere | Yeah, though to be fair, the Coronavirus conspiracists have every opportunity to weed themselves out of the gene pool, like Karen did | 01:04 |
| Toadisattva | there is an opportunity to change "business as usual" as a result of this thing | 01:04 |
| Toadisattva | not that we will | 01:04 |
| IronY | AimHere: She looked like she had a few co-morbidies :/ | 01:04 |
| Toadisattva | but the opportunity is present | 01:04 |
| LjL | i trust it will not be seized | 01:05 |
| IronY | I do not know how else to politely say it | 01:05 |
| AimHere | Toadisattva, it is disasters like this that DOES change the world | 01:05 |
| AimHere | World Wars 1 and 2 and the Great Depression did force a number of political changes | 01:05 |
| mefistofeles | remember how SARS made us prepare for this? | 01:05 |
| IronY | Toadisattva: If everything stopped today, and was fine tomorrow, the would would already be changed for ever | 01:05 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i added the studies you linked to the resource page btw, although Brainstorm was supposed to announce that and didn't, for a change | 01:07 |
| LjL | i made a section for "Prior research" | 01:07 |
| LjL | go and multiply me conspiracy theories | 01:07 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, that's the concern :-/ | 01:07 |
| oriba | mefistofeles: we have been warned. RKI made a study, ploitics knew it, but did nothing. | 01:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:01 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak — from r/WorldNews at 23:01: Bolsonaro under fire amid mass graves and noisy protests in Covid-19 hit Brazil → https://is.gd/Bb0Y4g | 01:07 |
| oriba | s/ploitics/politics/ | 01:07 |
| LjL | but also just you know, things like the Bill Gates speech in 2015 about the risk of and unpreparedness for a pandemic, except, said by the original people who said it, instead of Bill Gates, or else i'll get someone here mad again about how Bill Gates just stole everyhing | 01:08 |
| mefistofeles | oriba: yeah, the world is more concerned on how make money than other things | 01:08 |
| mefistofeles | s/on/with | 01:08 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, there are dzens of people modelling these type of pandemics for a living, for decades now | 01:08 |
| mefistofeles | dozens* | 01:08 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: heh. | 01:08 |
| IronY | If bill gates turns out to be the guy behind this and Linus Trovalds comes out with the patch | 01:09 |
| IronY | I quit, I quit reality | 01:09 |
| mefistofeles | IronY: wtf? haha | 01:09 |
| IronY | LOL | 01:09 |
| Toadisattva | whoever started this game of plague inc started off well with the spread but didn't make it deadly enough | 01:09 |
| Toadisattva | they are gonna have to pop a lot of bubbles to get the right mutations to beat the vaccine | 01:09 |
| oriba | mefistofeles: waiting to take action -> more deaths -> more need to buy the vaccines. If you take action too early, vaccines are not that urgent -> less money. | 01:10 |
| pwr22 | I think they're playing the long game | 01:10 |
| IronY | Toadisattva: I have a couple IoT marquees in the house I made with some ESP8266s MAX7129s and 3d printed cases, they read exactly like the news ticket in plauge in right now | 01:10 |
| pwr22 | Keep the death rate down, to lull governments into not working on measures early enough | 01:10 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 01:10 |
| pwr22 | Pivot to high death rate in the end game | 01:10 |
| IronY | pwr22: They lost the second madagascar closed the border | 01:11 |
| aldwich | we had the same thing this week (or the week before) when Matt Hancock said that covid-19 is a once a century event. looks like he hasn't gotten the message yet. these pandemics are black swans which we keep ignoring for reason of convenience i think | 01:11 |
| IronY | %data madagascar | 01:11 |
| Brainstorm | IronY: In all areas, Madagascar, there are 70 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Madagascar for time series data. | 01:11 |
| mefistofeles | IronY: there are cases in Madagascar, though | 01:11 |
| IronY | mefistofeles: Until I see a death there, there is hope! | 01:11 |
| IronY | lol | 01:11 |
| mefistofeles | there you go | 01:11 |
| mefistofeles | haha | 01:11 |
| pwr22 | They've got all the Islands, we're doomed | 01:11 |
| pwr22 | !cases greenland | 01:11 |
| CovBot | In Greenland there have been a total of 11 cases as of 2020-04-04 23:04:00 UTC. Of these 8 (72.7%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 3 (27.3%) have definitely recovered and 0 (0.0%) have died. | 01:11 |
| tinwhiskers | !cases Tonga | 01:12 |
| CovBot | My data doesn't seem to include Tonga. It might be under a different name, data on it might not be available or there could even be no cases. You may have more luck if you try a less specific location, like the country it's in. | 01:12 |
| CovBot | If you think I should have data on it you can open an issue at https://github.com/pwr22/covbot/issues and Peter will take a look. | 01:12 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 01:12 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: what are the most effective materials? do you think people will stop covering coughs/sneezes if they are wearing a mask? | 01:12 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, keep doing that, then the day it unexpectedly shows cases you get a heart attack. | 01:12 |
| cybitnap[m] | these virus is not strong enough to kill half the humanity | 01:12 |
| LjL | and then, it turns out it was just me fooling with the bot | 01:12 |
| pwr22 | Mental symptoms have started, to slow researchers on the cure | 01:13 |
| pwr22 | I'm disturbed how accurate plague Inc is | 01:13 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: that would've been a nice april fools | 01:13 |
| mefistofeles | "nice" | 01:13 |
| Toadisattva | did you see they released a new addon for it | 01:13 |
| tinwhiskers | Spec: Cotton fabric, ideally with a slot for a paper towel seems to be the best. I hope people will still cough into their elbow but the mask alone is still better than using your elbow without a mask. | 01:13 |
| Toadisattva | where you get to try and stop covid-19 | 01:13 |
| Toadisattva | er SARS-CoV-2 as it were | 01:13 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: yeah, sounds reasonable | 01:13 |
| mefistofeles | so, my bet is germany going back to "normal" first than other western countries, btw | 01:14 |
| dunnp | tinwhiskers: do you have a link about that? been trying to find something to give people | 01:14 |
| tinwhiskers | tee shirts make a pretty stylin' mask. I made a couple of these yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUasSmReIVo but there are more simple methods. | 01:14 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, one sec | 01:14 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, mefistofeles: pepee collects links and info on making masks | 01:14 |
| mefistofeles | and doing it right before may, or just as soon may starts, they start lifting the social distancing measures | 01:15 |
| Toadisattva | this site has good info: https://www.maskssavelives.org/ | 01:15 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: that's another bot? | 01:15 |
| pepee | *was collecting.. got kind of tired of it, but there seems to be enough info in that google link already | 01:15 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, lol, no | 01:15 |
| mefistofeles | oh, Turing test passed! | 01:15 |
| tinwhiskers | Spec: drink your fill: https://masks4all.co/ | 01:15 |
| LjL | i know https://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Cloth-Face-Mask/ but that's kind of the first google hit you'll find anyway | 01:16 |
| mefistofeles | $ddg diy mask covid | 01:16 |
| mefistofeles | %ddg diy mask covid | 01:16 |
| oriba | Toadisattva: no masks in china? | 01:16 |
| tinwhiskers | https://tiny.cc/maskswork | 01:17 |
| adventurer | Our government says so many lies it's not good. They say masks don't work for the public. Children are at zero risk. Why are they saying these things I wonder. | 01:18 |
| dunnp | is there any anything that shows cotton does anything though? | 01:18 |
| Toadisattva | china requires masks | 01:19 |
| LjL | dunnp, i have a colorful stanford "paper" that says it's better than nothing | 01:19 |
| Toadisattva | straight mandatory | 01:19 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, I've seen it referenced but will have to try to track it down. Cotton doesn't protect you very well, but it protects others from you very well. | 01:20 |
| dunnp | that would work for me LjL | 01:20 |
| dunnp | link? | 01:20 |
| Toadisattva | from that masks for all website | 01:20 |
| LjL | dunnp, https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Fstanfordmedicine.box.com%2Fv%2Fcovid19-PPE-1-1 page 4 | 01:20 |
| Toadisattva | “A double layer of 100% cotton cloth is about 70% as effective as a surgical mask at capturing small particles (up to five times smaller than coronavirus).” | 01:20 |
| Toadisattva | –Office of the Principal Scientific Advisor to the Government of India (study #1 & study #2) | 01:20 |
| tinwhiskers | This video mentions the research about cotton and paper but doesn't give a ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVEVve-3QeM | 01:20 |
| Toadisattva | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4pt4oFDBhsC_jpblXpNtQ/edit#heading=h.9yzpxufkt5ow | 01:22 |
| Toadisattva | that's the link that site has for the 34 research papers showing how basic masks can prevent the spread | 01:23 |
| Toadisattva | I still don't get how people misunderstand the simple physics of it | 01:23 |
| LjL | i right i have that | 01:24 |
| Toadisattva | you cover your respiratory pathway you lower your chances of catching respiratory spread virus | 01:24 |
| Toadisattva | easy peasy | 01:24 |
| Toadisattva | and of course you chances of spreading | 01:24 |
| LjL | sounds legit | 01:24 |
| oriba | LjL: did you hear about Bergamo, that the number of deaths may be double as high as the official numbers say? | 01:25 |
| tinwhiskers | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic | 01:25 |
| LjL | oriba, double? you heard the mild version then | 01:25 |
| oriba | LjL: ok, let me check the numbers, maybe I mixed thing up | 01:25 |
| LjL | oriba, i mean i don't really know which bit of intel you're talking about... i know they measured the deaths in one town against the average deaths they have in that part of the year, and the extra deaths are many more than just the ones attributed to COVID | 01:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:09 UTC: Coronavirus map of the US: latest cases state by state: Coronavirus: world map of deaths and cases C oronavirus – latest global updates See all our coronavirus coverage The number of confirmed cases of Covid-19 continues to grow in the US. Mike Pence, the vice-president, is overseeing the US response to the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/hVfjRM | 01:26 |
| oriba | LjL: more than double they say | 01:26 |
| oriba | "supposedly" | 01:26 |
| oriba | Also, spain seems to have a big problem too... they don't test enough... looks like politics tries to avoid the true numbers... | 01:27 |
| dunnp | ok thanks | 01:28 |
| LjL | oriba, there are many variables at play... on the one hand you have the lockdowns, potentially reducing deaths from things like car accidents, but on the other the combination of lockdown and secondary health issues will cause more deaths, from things like suicide or malnutrition when it's because of the lockdown, or COPD patients not getting oxygen, or people needing urgent medical assistance and not getting it | 01:28 |
| Toadisattva | I don't know that we can trust any of the numbers | 01:28 |
| dunnp | tinwhiskers: scarf is about as good as a mask | 01:28 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 01:28 |
| tinwhiskers | Anything to cover your mouth when you speak or cough. Speaking produces a lot of particles. | 01:29 |
| oriba | LjL: let me look for the original article... it's italian, I can't read it, but german articles refernced it... moment... | 01:29 |
| Toadisattva | just cover yor breathe holes | 01:29 |
| tinwhiskers | see this, for example: https://youtu.be/_OSz5Gr7gG0 | 01:29 |
| Toadisattva | that's all it is | 01:29 |
| Toadisattva | so easy | 01:29 |
| tinwhiskers | %title | 01:29 |
| Brainstorm | tinwhiskers: From youtu.be: Using a homemade mask works! See how we can reduce spread of COVID19 speech droplets - YouTube | 01:29 |
| LjL | oriba, yes, it's very obvious to me from listening to the press conference every day that they've progressively "filtered" the numbers to make it seem less bad. it's not that they *lie*, but initially they just gave the raw number of new cases... then they started subtracing the recoveries and the deaths from that, because hey, those aren't cases anymore. then they stopped giving some totals that were too high. then yesterday they didn't give the new case | 01:29 |
| LjL | number at all. | 01:29 |
| dunnp | I wonder if it pressure dtop is the most important thing then | 01:29 |
| LjL | oriba, don't bother, it's probably the Corriere article, *i* can't read that one because it's paywalled in italy :P but i sort of have anyway, and read other articles in English referencing it | 01:30 |
| LjL | dunnp, my guess is it's an important factor unless you're wearing some really fancy mask that has an actual seal, like with glue... in which case you wouldn't be here looking at DIY masks, though | 01:31 |
| Toadisattva | n95 is pretty effective | 01:31 |
| oriba | LjL: coreire yes.. but they say 4 times higher (possibly locally) | 01:31 |
| oriba | LjL: oops, in english | 01:31 |
| Toadisattva | but if you didn't already have one back in January you won't have a chance of finding one outside a hospial now | 01:31 |
| LjL | dunnp, after all, one of the myths they perpetuated to dissuade us from using surgical masks is "they don't form a seal and you get all the air in from the sides". it wasn't really a good reason not to use those masks, but it wasn't *false* either | 01:31 |
| dunnp | yea | 01:32 |
| dunnp | hmm | 01:32 |
| LjL | oriba, yes, locally, it was based on one town in the Bergamo province, not the whole province. still, i find it likely the total deaths are many more than the official COVID deaths in the hardest-hit towns | 01:32 |
| dunnp | still banking on the never leaving my house again strategy | 01:32 |
| LjL | very likely | 01:32 |
| Toadisattva | well you still gotta order stuff | 01:32 |
| tinwhiskers | Apparently in some of the countries where everyone is now wearing masks wearing an N95 is a social taboo since medical staff should have those, not you. (despite the fact you may have already had them) | 01:32 |
| Toadisattva | amazon is delivering you a nice dose of covid in 2 days or less | 01:33 |
| dunnp | surivival time on cardboardis about 24 hours Toadisattva | 01:33 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, in one of our press conferences either Borrelli or one of the doctors he invited just flipped out against people wearing N95 (well, FPP2/3 masks) | 01:33 |
| dunnp | I just leave my boxes out | 01:33 |
| mefistofeles | it's not that likely to get the disease that way | 01:33 |
| mefistofeles | the common consensus is that it needs prolongued close contact to infected people | 01:33 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, but what ELSE would we be wearing when we're told the surgical masks are no good? see where the lies all break down and make things worse...? | 01:33 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 01:34 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, what Amazon? our Amazon ships just about nothing in 2 days anymore :P | 01:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Communication has been a nightmare | 01:34 |
| Toadisattva | what of that choir group that had a short practice and almost all of them got covid | 01:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Better late than never I guess. | 01:34 |
| dunnp | Toadisattva: pretty dumb | 01:34 |
| Toadisattva | I got my vitamins the next day when I ordered last week | 01:34 |
| Toadisattva | they musta had em already in the warehouse and ocnsidered them eseential items or soemthing | 01:35 |
| dunnp | i still get random stuff quickly | 01:35 |
| dunnp | like a fake dead crow | 01:35 |
| dunnp | but probably based on warehouses yea | 01:35 |
| Toadisattva | meanwhile the fabric masks I ordered a month ago are still mia with no tracking number from china (I didn't realize they were coming from china when I ordered) | 01:36 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 01:36 |
| LjL | common consensus has proven to be slightly misguided before. there are studies showing it stays on surfaces, and there are studies showing it stays in the air. viable. they do not show likelihood of transmission, but i'm not aware of any study that show UNlikeliness of transmission | 01:36 |
| dunnp | cant order anything like masks or bandanas | 01:36 |
| tinwhiskers | Toadisattva: you probably have plenty of time to make one. I found making them quite rewarding. | 01:36 |
| Toadisattva | they found SARS-CoV-2 present in rooms 17 days after everyone left the diamond princess | 01:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Use an old tee-shirt. | 01:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Toadisattva: they found RNA, not necessarily intact viruses | 01:37 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, that wasn't shown to be viable though. you can find RNA remains, that's almost to be taken for granted in my opinion... they don't just melt | 01:37 |
| Toadisattva | I have a few n95's and a full on resperator from before all this went down | 01:38 |
| dunnp | Toadisattva: yea RNA isnt virus though | 01:38 |
| dunnp | best paper I've seen on this: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973 | 01:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:30 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live update: death toll hits 30 as supermarkets give priority to NDIS participants – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 23:30: Major London park closed after 3,000 sun worshippers flout lockdown → https://is.gd/Va3rB4 | 01:38 |
| Toadisattva | ah okay | 01:38 |
| tinwhiskers | %tite | 01:38 |
| LjL | %title | 01:38 |
| Toadisattva | I wasn't aware it was just the RNA | 01:38 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.nejm.org: Aerosol and Surface Stability of SARS-CoV-2 as Compared with SARS-CoV-1 | NEJM | 01:38 |
| tinwhiskers | %titty | 01:38 |
| Toadisattva | I treat my n95 like gold | 01:38 |
| tinwhiskers | As you should | 01:39 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, well, it's because that's what's easiest to measure, with a test similar to the one they use on people. then if you want to prove viability, you have to try growing the virus inside animal tissue. which is long and boring. i understand. | 01:39 |
| Toadisattva | I'd like to seem more testing of common antivirals | 01:39 |
| Toadisattva | even if just in vitro | 01:40 |
| Toadisattva | like garlic onion thyme | 01:40 |
| Toadisattva | oregano these kind of things | 01:40 |
| tinwhiskers | :-/ | 01:40 |
| tinwhiskers | Dynamite works | 01:40 |
| dunnp | bleach | 01:40 |
| dunnp | didnt realize that there was even a rumor that oregano was an antiviral | 01:41 |
| dunnp | garlic, onion, thyme, oregano... yet Italy is doing so poorly | 01:41 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 01:41 |
| LjL | what's it called | 01:41 |
| LjL | quercetin | 01:42 |
| Toadisattva | you want to take the quercetin with zinc | 01:42 |
| Toadisattva | it allows more zinc to enter the cell | 01:42 |
| dunnp | how? | 01:42 |
| tinwhiskers | (hydroxy)Chloroquine? | 01:42 |
| LjL | citation probably needed, but yeah, you do need something to get the zinc to enter the cell, that much is true | 01:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Even without the zinc it may be somewhat effective but the zinc is likely to improve the effect | 01:43 |
| dunnp | I thought all the zinc stuff was shown to not really help anything | 01:43 |
| dunnp | I remember when zinc was big for colds | 01:43 |
| LjL | i suspect quercetin is not proven as safe enough for the way people use it as a supplement... but it is sure safer than chloroquine | 01:43 |
| tinwhiskers | The zinc hasn't been tested | 01:43 |
| Toadisattva | medcram has some great videos explaining the research and pharmacokinetics | 01:43 |
| Toadisattva | check out update 37 | 01:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 23:41 UTC: ljl-covid: Add NEJM study on surface and air stability — from r/WorldNews at 23:41: Major London park closed after 3,000 sun worshippers flout lockdown → https://is.gd/fOjfH8 | 01:44 |
| LjL | dunnp, zinc on its own is probably unhelpful if you ask yuriwho, but i think on the molecular, it's true that having zinc inside your cells will hinder viral replication | 01:44 |
| LjL | level* | 01:44 |
| PlanckWalk | And your own cell replication? | 01:44 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, zinc alone can't enter the cells to damage the virus. | 01:44 |
| LjL | PlanckWalk, hopefully not! | 01:44 |
| tinwhiskers | But chloroquine, for example allows the zinc to enter the cells | 01:45 |
| dunnp | always loved this viz: | 01:45 |
| PlanckWalk | Not that it would matter as much since human cells replicate very much more slowly anyway. | 01:45 |
| dunnp | %title https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/snake-oil-scientific-evidence-for-nutritional-supplements-vizsweet/ | 01:45 |
| Brainstorm | dunnp: From informationisbeautiful.net: Snake Oil Supplements — Information is Beautiful | 01:45 |
| Toadisattva | quercetin does as well but not as effectively as chlorquine/hydroxy-cholorquine | 01:45 |
| Toadisattva | still readily available supplement | 01:45 |
| Toadisattva | and it does help | 01:46 |
| Toadisattva | but we don't need to worry about that too much kuz our exposrue will be minmized since we are all wearing our masks right ;) | 01:46 |
| dunnp | guess I was wrong on zinc - does seem to have real benefits | 01:48 |
| tinwhiskers | dunnp: anything specific to SARS-Cov-2? | 01:50 |
| dunnp | no | 01:50 |
| dunnp | reduces pneumonia in children and shortens colds | 01:50 |
| Toadisattva | https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0006/v1 | 01:51 |
| Toadisattva | COVID-19 Pandemic: Can Maintaining Optimal Zinc Balance Enhance Host Resistance? | 01:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1255 cases (now 1200315) since an hour ago — California, US: +1010 cases (now 13649) since 4 hours ago — US: +789 cases (now 310133) since an hour ago | 01:51 |
| dunnp | In this opinion-based article, I want to discuss, why keeping the adequate micronutrient balance might enhance the host response and be protective of viral infections | 01:52 |
| dunnp | Toadisattva: that isn't really useful | 01:52 |
| Toadisattva | that's the only paper that scholar popped wtih in regards to SARS-CoV-2 | 01:53 |
| Toadisattva | I haven't had a chance to read it yet | 01:53 |
| dunnp | it is an opinion article | 01:55 |
| tinwhiskers | Not surprisingly, the surgical mask performed best, capturing 97% of the 1-micron bacteria. Yet every single material filtered out at least 50% of particles. The top performers were the vacuum cleaner bag (95%), the dish cloth (“tea towel” in the UK! 83%), the cotton blend shirt fabric (74%), and the 100% cotton shirt (69%). | 01:55 |
| Toadisattva | yeah guess in short it just says zinc good research this | 01:56 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 01:56 |
| Toadisattva | oh that's from the one I linked yesterday | 01:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:45 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live update: death toll hits 30 as supermarkets give priority to NDIS participants – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 23:45: Major London park closed after 3,000 sun worshippers flout lockdown → https://is.gd/Va3rB4 | 01:56 |
| dunnp | tinwhiskers: but the virus is a lot smaller than bacteria so I dono if that translates directly | 01:56 |
| Toadisattva | i was suprised about the vacuum cleaner bag | 01:56 |
| Toadisattva | thats probably pretty accessible material | 01:56 |
| tinwhiskers | dunnp: true | 01:56 |
| tinwhiskers | dunnp: however I think it the useful aspect relates to catching droplets, which are mostly larger than that. | 01:58 |
| LjL | dunnp, well, you can't get zinc in your cells forcefully unless you use some forceful agent to help, but if you *don't have* (enough) zinc in your cells in the first place, i assume that won't help. a lot of these things aren't "false" per se, it's just, if you have deficiencies, then they may help, and many people do have deficiencies, so... | 01:58 |
| LjL | dunnp, not directly, but if we believe the good old "only relatively large droplets" story, then we may infer it'll stop the virus even if the virus itself is tinier. and we, err... i probably don't believe that story? but still, *some* virus will be found in some of the bigger droplets ;( | 01:59 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: if we're referring to protecting from infected people the droplets are much larger because it's at the point of origin. | 02:00 |
| dunnp | yea thats why I think it will limit the outflow of virus | 02:00 |
| dunnp | versus the intake | 02:00 |
| tinwhiskers | But yes, as far as protecting you from infected people those fabrics are not going to be so great | 02:01 |
| Toadisattva | having a barrier at both ends signficiantly decreases exposure level | 02:01 |
| Toadisattva | pair that good social distance | 02:01 |
| Toadisattva | and good hygenic practices and we can actually slow the transmission signficantly | 02:01 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, in that case yeah | 02:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 23:57 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The Covid Tracking Project records the following % changes in US data for the past day: — from r/WorldNews at 23:57: Spain's coronavirus death toll shows signs of flattening → https://is.gd/MhtQBS | 02:02 |
| tinwhiskers | I kinda wish I had a vacuum cleaner now | 02:03 |
| Spec | spain's is flatenning? | 02:03 |
| Spec | flattening, too | 02:03 |
| LjL | Spec, maybe it will rain | 02:03 |
| Spec | what policies do they employ? | 02:03 |
| LjL | Spec, same as italy pretty much | 02:03 |
| LjL | total lockdown except maybe public transport works and some people don't care | 02:03 |
| Spec | mask required, essentials (olive oil stores) only? | 02:04 |
| LjL | masks not required, that's just starting | 02:04 |
| LjL | essentials only yeah | 02:04 |
| LjL | not just in terms of shops/stores, only essential jobs allowed in general | 02:04 |
| dunnp | i could live on the med diet... mmm olive oil | 02:04 |
| LjL | i'm pretty sure i could live on it | 02:05 |
| LjL | since i do! | 02:05 |
| bin_bash | i have enough olive oil for a year | 02:05 |
| bin_bash | and i got it all half off | 02:05 |
| pepee | apparently, plastics > cotton for masks, probably because of the static charges and because of small (nanometric) fibers | 02:07 |
| Toadisattva | I'm wondering how long the virus lasts on rubberized surfaces | 02:07 |
| dunnp | pepee: according to what | 02:08 |
| Toadisattva | if it's less likely to be picked up by and remain on gloves vs skin | 02:08 |
| dunnp | it survives longest on plastics | 02:08 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, here's the info for virus-sized particles (0.02 microns - smaller than SARS-Cov-2): Surgical mask: 89%, Vacuum cleaner bag: 86%, Dish Towel (tea towel) 73%, Cotton blend: 70%, antimicrobial pillowcase: 68%, linen: 62%, pillowcase: 57%, silk: 54%, 100% cotton tee-shirt: 51% | 02:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:59 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Cases approach 1.2m as Trump tells Americans to expect 'a lot of death' — from r/WorldNews at 23:59: Spain's coronavirus death toll shows signs of flattening → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 02:08 |
| Toadisattva | it had a pretty good shelf life on stainless steel as I recall as well | 02:08 |
| Toadisattva | 4 days or something | 02:08 |
| pepee | dunnp, multiple studies I've read | 02:09 |
| dunnp | linen is better than cotton tinwhiskers? | 02:09 |
| dunnp | pepee: please share them | 02:09 |
| pepee | gonna share, looking for them | 02:09 |
| tinwhiskers | pepee: yes, the blend seems to perform better than 100% cotton | 02:09 |
| dunnp | but linen has a lot more air flow | 02:10 |
| tinwhiskers | Apparently in https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic#pf7 | 02:10 |
| pepee | sadly, I didn't save all the info I had and had to reboot my laptop :( | 02:10 |
| dunnp | ah I had been looking at that tinwhiskers | 02:11 |
| dunnp | MS2 is 27nm | 02:11 |
| tinwhiskers | I was only reading a summary that purports to be of that paper, but didn't read the paper itself | 02:11 |
| Toadisattva | vacuum cleaner bag seems like the way to go if you don't have access surgical masks or better | 02:12 |
| pepee | https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/7/789/202744 | 02:12 |
| pepee | the efficacy one is good too | 02:13 |
| dunnp | ah this is 70-90nm | 02:13 |
| tinwhiskers | pepee: nice | 02:13 |
| dunnp | good call tinwhiskers | 02:13 |
| pepee | virus is 50-160 from what I've read | 02:13 |
| pepee | and pores don't seem to matter | 02:13 |
| Toadisattva | haha you think after this is all said and done there will be a person on planet earth who doesn't keep a box of n95's in the house? | 02:14 |
| Toadisattva | ;p | 02:14 |
| dunnp | pores pepee | 02:14 |
| dunnp | ? | 02:14 |
| pepee | btw, people have been testing with different sprayed aerosols | 02:14 |
| pepee | dunnp, superficial pores at the um level | 02:14 |
| dunnp | Toadisattva: I bet it is pretty hard to breath through a vacuum cleaner baf | 02:14 |
| dunnp | bag | 02:14 |
| tinwhiskers | Having a double layer improves the filtering in most materials (not surprisingly) but not all (surprisingly) | 02:14 |
| pepee | https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog has lots of ingo | 02:14 |
| dunnp | how would pores not matter? | 02:15 |
| pepee | https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/ https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/what-is-pm0-3-why-important/ https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/can-hepa-filters-capture-nanoparticles/ | 02:15 |
| pepee | because, if I'm not mistaken, particles are attracted to fibers, and not simply "catched" by them | 02:16 |
| tinwhiskers | dunnp: I don't thin kit's that they don't matter, it's just large pores can still filter things smaller than that pore size | 02:16 |
| tinwhiskers | oh | 02:16 |
| pepee | of course the least porous the surface, the better, but then you also have to take "breathability" into account | 02:16 |
| tinwhiskers | Smaller pores will probably still be better but large pores can still be effective | 02:17 |
| dunnp | pepee: your first link there is using the paper that tinwhiskers just posted | 02:17 |
| tinwhiskers | And if you have a beard a full-face wrap-around home made mask may well be better than an n95 | 02:18 |
| pepee | yep | 02:18 |
| pepee | that explains it in a shorter way | 02:18 |
| dunnp | your other links sound like conspiracy theory about hepa filters | 02:19 |
| bin_bash | yeah if you have a beard you should shave it | 02:19 |
| pepee | ^ | 02:19 |
| tinwhiskers | :-( | 02:20 |
| tinwhiskers | I suppose I'll be wearing a mask | 02:20 |
| pepee | unless you have a full face mask :P | 02:20 |
| pepee | get an astronaut suit | 02:20 |
| tinwhiskers | Good plan | 02:21 |
| dunnp | hepa filters definitely get things less than .3 microns pepee | 02:22 |
| dunnp | kinda strange claim | 02:22 |
| Toadisattva | I honestly looked into hazmat suits | 02:22 |
| Toadisattva | they are expensive | 02:22 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 02:22 |
| pepee | yep | 02:22 |
| dunnp | but I still don't see anyhting about plastic | 02:22 |
| pepee | there is another study... let me find it | 02:22 |
| Toadisattva | the virus lasted for nearly 72 hours on a plastic surface according to the info in the smart air filters blog | 02:23 |
| Toadisattva | didn't see anything about plastic as masking materialt hough | 02:23 |
| dunnp | yea Toadisattva - plastic was the longest | 02:24 |
| Toadisattva | plastic and stainless | 02:26 |
| Toadisattva | kuz they are non porous | 02:26 |
| Toadisattva | carboard was up to 48 though | 02:26 |
| Toadisattva | cardboard* | 02:26 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Angela Merkel's approval ratings up amid health crisis, support for the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party drops | Approval ratings up from ~40% to 72% within a month. (10033 votes) | https://redd.it/furga2 | 02:28 |
| LjL | hmm, supposedly the same is happening with our PM | 02:30 |
| LjL | except... there's really no party behind him | 02:30 |
| LjL | he is nominally Five Stars but they don't even like him | 02:31 |
| LjL | he's definitely not Democrats although i could probably see some courtship there | 02:31 |
| LjL | and both of those parties are tanking anyway | 02:31 |
| LjL | soooo i guess he'll have to make his own party next time. same as always. #italy | 02:31 |
| pepee | funny stuff, same thing is happening here in my country | 02:32 |
| pepee | though our president has like 20% of approval, lol | 02:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1944 cases (now 1202259) since 54 minutes ago — US: +1224 cases (now 311357) since 54 minutes ago — New York, US: +1071 cases (now 114775) since 54 minutes ago | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:34 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live update: death toll hits 30 as Dutton warns of unauthorised Covid-19 test kits – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 00:34: Queen Elizabeth to give rare televised speech about the coronavirus → https://is.gd/Va3rB4 | 02:39 |
| reCAP | Confirmed cases per day spiked | 02:46 |
| reCAP | 10 k + | 02:48 |
| reCAP | ouch | 02:48 |
| IronY | https://github.com/memoryhonest/nCovMemory-en/blob/master/docs/2020-01-30/guarding_at_jinyintan.md | 02:51 |
| IronY | https://github.com/soroushchehresa/awesome-coronavirus | 02:52 |
| xrogaan | Are there global stats on the death rate per age range availabe? | 02:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:49 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Cases approach 1.2m as Trump tells Americans to expect 'a lot of death' — from r/WorldNews at 00:49: Bernie Sanders Warns Total Economic Collapse Will Be More Expensive Than Paying Workers, Reducing Health Care Costs Amid Coronavirus → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 02:57 |
| Toadisattva | testing is getting rolled out heavy so the infectino rate is gonna rise steeply and quickly | 03:01 |
| Toadisattva | that death toll is the one we wanna see moving slowly understanding of course it's far from accurate | 03:02 |
| dunnp | https://www.al.com/news/2020/04/alabama-projected-to-have-highest-death-rate-fourth-most-coronavirus-deaths-in-nation.html | 03:09 |
| dunnp | huh Alabama at #4 is unexpected | 03:09 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Cuban officials say a shipment of coronavirus aid from Asia's richest man, Jack Ma, has been blocked by the six-decade U.S. embargo on the island. (10362 votes) | https://redd.it/fv064j | 03:10 |
| Jo-Anna | Scare tactics:) | 03:14 |
| dunnp | the embargo? | 03:14 |
| PlanckWalk | Every week of letting the virus run rampant means a pretty hefty multiple of deaths later. | 03:16 |
| dunnp | yea but so few people in alabama and they are spread out | 03:16 |
| Jo-Anna | At least Alabama will not be filled with starving people who lost their jobs | 03:19 |
| dunnp | because it already is! | 03:19 |
| Jo-Anna | I don’t know I don’t live there | 03:19 |
| bingkun | Why is it spreading so much in NY? We enacted social distancing and stuff. Are we just testing at a higher rate? | 03:19 |
| Jo-Anna | Probably | 03:19 |
| Spec | lag in testing caused the blindness for a bit | 03:19 |
| dunnp | bingkun: went way too long before closing schools | 03:20 |
| adventurer | I read on a reddit ubereats thing in USA that some drivershave to cue right out the door at McDonalds even though they are picking up UberEats...that just made me realise oh no...people are all cuing out the door at McDonalds, I hope they don't get sick | 03:20 |
| dunnp | Jo-Anna: alamaba is one of the most propped up states in the us | 03:20 |
| dunnp | adventurer: what? | 03:21 |
| bingkun | all because of that one dude from new rochelle... | 03:21 |
| bin_bash | bingkun: NY was the #1 destination out of wuhan. it's the financial capital of the world and manhattan is home to 7 million people. | 03:24 |
| bin_bash | it's obvious. | 03:24 |
| adventurer | s/drivershave/ drivers have | 03:24 |
| Jo-Anna | I don’t know anyone who lives in Alabama but I’ll say this. The religious leader urging people to gather are probably “controlled opposition “ | 03:24 |
| adventurer | I am saying I am not feeling good about Covid-19 not spreading in USA more if people are cuing at maccas | 03:25 |
| adventurer | Why do they not do drive though I wonder? who knows | 03:25 |
| bin_bash | queueing* | 03:25 |
| adventurer | ah queueing | 03:25 |
| bin_bash | yeah it's a weird one lol | 03:26 |
| Jo-Anna | This whole virus thing is just a big distraction to round up the sheeple | 03:26 |
| jester | drink the koolade | 03:26 |
| Jo-Anna | What happens next? Sheeple will be fleeced of course | 03:26 |
| bin_bash | Jo-Anna: if you feel that way you should voluntarily deprioritize yourselkf by getting up close and personal with an active volcano | 03:27 |
| dunnp | adventurer: where are you seeing this? all the places I've been have either had marks set up 6+ feet apart or put the items in your trunk | 03:27 |
| bin_bash | because volcanos are also a conspiracy and only burn libtards | 03:27 |
| bingkun | bin_bash: I know but it's so goddamn high I thought there may be some other factor. Especially in Rockland and Westchester which more spread out and suburban. But of course plenty of people who work in the city live in the lower Hudson Valley. | 03:27 |
| adventurer | here is where i am seeing this https://www.reddit.com/r/UberEATS/comments/fv1jkl/just_a_test/ | 03:27 |
| bin_bash | bingkun: yep also basically an entire synagogue was infected so that didnt help new rochelle at all | 03:28 |
| PlanckWalk | Testing was so low that the numbers didn't get alarming enough for strict measures until weeks too late. | 03:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:20 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live update: death toll hits 30 as Dutton warns of unauthorised Covid-19 test kits – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 01:20: China should be sued $6.5 trillion for Coronavirus damages, says top UK Think Tank → https://is.gd/Va3rB4 | 03:28 |
| dunnp | adventurer: he says it was drive through only | 03:28 |
| PlanckWalk | The same low testing -> low numbers -> weeks late measures chain is being repeated virtually everywhere. | 03:29 |
| adventurer | oh i assumed it was a line up | 03:29 |
| dunnp | ... there were only 3 top level comments and two of them OP replied to that it was drive-through only | 03:30 |
| dunnp | jesus | 03:30 |
| bingkun | bin_bash: not to mention that the guy worked in midtown a few blocks away from grand central. I wonder how many people got infected by him and then went home on the LIRR or Metro North or subway. | 03:31 |
| adventurer | you should get really pissed off i made a mistake and start swearing with jesus name dun | 03:31 |
| jester | god fake who cares | 03:32 |
| bin_bash | bingkun: yup, exactly. i kept telling my mom to stop going in but fortunately she doesnt use any public transpo | 03:32 |
| bin_bash | she finally stopped like a wekk or 2 ago and i was very relieved | 03:32 |
| adventurer | most UberEats pick ups are not drive though anyway | 03:32 |
| bin_bash | adventurer: yes they are nowadays | 03:32 |
| adventurer | no they are not | 03:33 |
| bin_bash | ...yes they are. because sit-down restaurants are not open in most places | 03:33 |
| bin_bash | take out or drive-through onlu | 03:33 |
| bingkun | my dad's a big trump guy and refused to work from home thinking the virus was being sensationalized by CNN, luckily he started staying home when Trump declared a national emergency | 03:33 |
| adventurer | take away is not drive through | 03:33 |
| bin_bash | people are not allowed to be lining up inside of the restaurants in most places | 03:34 |
| adventurer | https://www.reddit.com/r/UberEATS/comments/fuz8an/restaurants_want_ubereats_drivers_to_die/ | 03:34 |
| bin_bash | and grocery stores and such that i've have markers to keep shoppers 6 feet apart, signage everywhere, everything to protect the workers | 03:35 |
| Spec | i've not left my house for like, 38 days or so | 03:35 |
| Spec | is the desolation over yet | 03:35 |
| Spec | is toilet paper and meat available? these questions and more | 03:36 |
| bin_bash | i had to leave today to pickup prescriptions :( | 03:36 |
| Spec | i've been patiently waiting for MaskCulture to be acceptable | 03:36 |
| bin_bash | slowly starting in the US FINALLY | 03:36 |
| bin_bash | took way too fkn long | 03:37 |
| adventurer | i'm going to do UberEats | 03:37 |
| Spec | yeah, wtf, so many people were literally insulting me for being pro mask culture to stop spread | 03:37 |
| Spec | CDC and WHO did so much damage in messaging and change control/management | 03:37 |
| bin_bash | ^^^^ | 03:37 |
| bin_bash | completely agree | 03:37 |
| bin_bash | the CDC destoryed their credibility | 03:38 |
| Spec | we've known for so long that it's contagious and spreads asymptomatically | 03:38 |
| bin_bash | WHO had already destroyed it by kowtowing to china | 03:38 |
| Spec | well, CDCs ability and credibility are a direct reflection of the current administration | 03:38 |
| Spec | not necessarily the competencies of the organization and its workers itself | 03:38 |
| Spec | but yeah, they're currently shitting the bed | 03:38 |
| bin_bash | that's true, especially considering the pandemic response team was disbanded | 03:38 |
| bin_bash | but the fucking disinfo was BAD | 03:39 |
| bin_bash | and unnecessary | 03:39 |
| Spec | yes, but disinfo was surely administration-related | 03:39 |
| Spec | don't wanna lose your job contradicting your boss, you know | 03:39 |
| reCAP | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0258470/mediaviewer/rm1217772545 | 03:39 |
| bin_bash | im not convinced of that. i think it was more CYA "oh fuck we dont have the supply let's prevent a run on it" | 03:39 |
| Spec | bin_bash: fun fact, i used to be a CDC contractor :P | 03:39 |
| bin_bash | i'm sorry :P | 03:40 |
| Spec | bin_bash: yeah, that part would be purposeful misinformation that i think is ultimately damaging | 03:40 |
| bin_bash | buddy of mine works for the FDA and i sent him my condolences as well so nothijng personal :P | 03:40 |
| Spec | especially since home made masks are fairly effective at reduce transmission and therefore will flatten curve if culturally adopted | 03:40 |
| bin_bash | yup | 03:40 |
| Spec | because even though they about-faced....45% of our country will not wear masks for quite some more weeks | 03:40 |
| bin_bash | it shouldve been "dont buy all the medical masks, here's how to make an even more effective one at home. 3M hates this one weird trick" | 03:41 |
| bin_bash | literally every mom in america wouldve jumped on that train | 03:41 |
| bingkun | saw ppl in the mexican neighborhood wearing bandana masks lol | 03:41 |
| Spec | bin_bash: well, i'm an IT guy (as most of us are), so i didn't really see much of cdc | 03:41 |
| bingkun | gotta make them stylish | 03:41 |
| Spec | bin_bash: right -- etsy would have been flooded with decent alternatives already | 03:41 |
| bin_bash | Spec: exactly | 03:41 |
| bin_bash | i think that would be way better than telling everyong to go buy n95s | 03:42 |
| Spec | instead of next week, or in two weeks | 03:42 |
| Spec | bin_bash: i have some n95s and p100s :P | 03:42 |
| Spec | from BeforeTheTroubles | 03:42 |
| Spec | also surgical masks :P | 03:42 |
| bin_bash | me too. i shouldve worn my n95 today but wore a surgical because everything wasnt too crowded, but now im regretting it | 03:42 |
| bin_bash | post-venture paranoia lol | 03:43 |
| Spec | the surgical masks i wear when making bath bombs, because of the light weight/fine SLSA powder i use in them :P | 03:43 |
| bin_bash | nice | 03:43 |
| Spec | i'm still not sure when to use my masks, and for what reasons/scenarios | 03:44 |
| reCAP | bath bombs? | 03:44 |
| Spec | reCAP: yeah, search google images | 03:44 |
| Spec | they have reaction to cause fizziness and bubbles and i put scents and colors and oil in them | 03:45 |
| Spec | and bath salts | 03:45 |
| Spec | reCAP: https://i.imgur.com/y3nQlds.jpg | 03:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China reports 30 new cases, South Korea says it has 81 more cases — from r/WorldNews at 01:41: China should be sued $6.5 trillion for Coronavirus damages, says top UK Think Tank → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 03:46 |
| bin_bash | Spec: lol nice ive never made them | 03:48 |
| Spec | bin_bash: i've never used them, i make them for my daughter :P | 03:51 |
| bin_bash | ive never used them either | 03:51 |
| bin_bash | i used to take bubble baths a lot but i need a new bathroom tbh | 03:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:43 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Cases approach 1.2m as Trump tells Americans to expect 'a lot of death' — from r/WorldNews at 01:43: World Bank approves $1 billion aid to India to fight Coronavirus → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 03:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:57 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China reports 30 new cases, South Korea says it has 81 more cases — from r/WorldNews at 01:57: World Bank approves $1 billion aid to India to fight Coronavirus → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 04:05 |
| oriba2 | Corona mask, perfect solution: https://ibb.co/VWfGNNj | 04:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:12 UTC: These 'disease hunters' developed a novel technique for tracking pandemics after 9/11, but lost funding right before COVID-19: Nearly two decades ago, when 9/11 spurred governments to invest in fighting bioterrorism, a group of disease experts figured out how to track pandemics using data from emergency rooms with a [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/RCiMCD | 04:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:20 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China reports 30 new cases, South Korea says it has 81 more cases — from r/WorldNews at 02:20: China should be sued for $6.5 trillion for coronavirus damages says top UK think tank → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 04:23 |
| jacklsw86 | good morning for everyone in asia | 04:25 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: IKEA (the world's largest furniture retailer) has revealed that 70% of the materials used to make its products during 2018 were either renewable or recycled, as it strives to reach the 100% mark by 2030. (11005 votes) | https://redd.it/fv1qwi | 04:28 |
| term99 | %data ohio | 04:40 |
| Brainstorm | term99: In Ohio, US, there are 3739 cases, 102 deaths (2.7% of cases), 0 recoveries as of 2 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 04:40 |
| jester | https://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily/\ | 04:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 02:57 UTC: /u/slakmehl: In Italy, Going Back to Work May Depend on Having the Right Antibodies - The New York Times — from r/WorldNews at 02:57: Australian politicians launch an incredible attack on the Chinese Communist Party about coronavirus → https://is.gd/YgTyOu | 05:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live update: death toll at 34 as Porter says Fair Work changes needed for jobkeeper package – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 03:04: Australian politicians launch an incredible attack on the Chinese Communist Party about coronavirus → https://is.gd/Va3rB4 | 05:12 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Turkey seizes hundreds of ventilators paid for by Spain in move 'bordering on criminality' (10008 votes) | https://redd.it/futj9w | 05:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:21 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Cases pass 1.2m as Trump tells Americans to expect 'a lot of death' — from r/WorldNews at 03:21: The U.S. was beset by denial and dysfunction as the coronavirus raged → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 05:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:35 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Global cases pass 1.2m as Trump tells Americans to expect 'a lot of death' — from r/WorldNews at 03:35: Anguish as Sri Lanka forces Muslims to cremate COVID-19 victims → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 05:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks — from r/WorldNews at 03:52: With 300,000+ Confirmed Cases, The United States now accounts for 25% of the world's total COVID-19 cases. → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 05:55 |
| euod[m] | at some point you start to talk about infections as a percentage, | 06:07 |
| euod[m] | for the US, it's now 0.1%. | 06:07 |
| euod[m] | 0.0027% deaths | 06:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Global cases pass 1.2m as Trump tells Americans to expect 'a lot of death' [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 06:20 |
| Akash[m] | %data india | 06:25 |
| Brainstorm | Akash[m]: In all areas, India, there are 3588 cases, 99 deaths (2.8% of cases), 229 recoveries as of 8 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data. | 06:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:25 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live update: death toll at 34 as Porter says Fair Work changes needed for jobkeeper package – latest news [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Va3rB4 | 06:32 |
| sneep | https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/03/26/problem-remdesivir-making-it-14665 Entertaining read | 06:41 |
| sneep | %title | 06:42 |
| Brainstorm | sneep: From www.acsh.org: OMG! We Made One Gram of Remdesivir! | American Council on Science and Health | 06:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:37 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Global cases pass 1.2m as Trump tells Americans to expect 'a lot of death' [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 06:44 |
| tinwhiskers | Spec: whenever you go anywhere there are other people you should wear a mask | 06:44 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, whoops. I was stuck in time in scrollback | 06:45 |
| Mumuks[m] | <parasomnia[m] "by the way, how to encrypt infor"> This is a public forum, anyone can join, makes no sense to encrypt. You should assume anyone is listening in a public forum | 06:45 |
| bin_bash | espeically when it's bridged to matrix | 06:52 |
| Mumuks[m] | bin_bash: both parasomnia and I are matrix users, and I fail to see how being bridged to matrix changes anything in this case, a public room is a public room in irc, matrix and anywhere | 06:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:56 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 07:02 |
| bin_bash | Mumuks[m]: because freenode has a policy that public logging must be stated in the channel topic, but being bridged to matrix prevents that policy from being followed. | 07:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1141 cases (now 1203400), +57 deaths (now 64758), +464 recoveries (now 246638) since 4 hours ago — India: +506 cases (now 3588) since 5 hours ago — Ontario, Canada: +375 cases (now 3630) since a day ago | 07:06 |
| Mumuks[m] | <bin_bash "Mumuks: because freenode has a p"> That policy is as nice as unenforceable, so my point stands | 07:09 |
| bin_bash | usually channels will get shut down if it's found out, but this is a rare case | 07:09 |
| bin_bash | mostly because it's not exactly a violation | 07:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:10 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live update: death toll at 34 as Porter says Fair Work changes needed for jobkeeper package – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 05:10: Coronavirus pandemic 'amplifying' poverty in UK → https://is.gd/Va3rB4 | 07:21 |
| nalkri | https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/ possibly not very useful information, but kinda interesting | 07:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:25 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live update: NSW police launch criminal investigation into Ruby Princess – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 05:25: 430,000 people have travelled from China to US since coronavirus surfaced → https://is.gd/Va3rB4 | 07:33 |
| IronY | bin_bash: You know everyone in this channel is also in the other channel right ;) | 07:37 |
| bin_bash | except all the matrix losers | 07:39 |
| IronY | LOL valid | 07:40 |
| IronY | https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/03/26/coronavirus-fact-check-could-your-december-cough-have-been-covid-19/2899027001/?fbclid=IwAR3IQ9uL4MBaJ5g9m7DX735pfnYI_XoY4h4_xb26DTNbNfJT4Kln6YU2LKs | 07:41 |
| IronY | (https://fso.page.link/Q6su) → Coronavirus fact check: Could your December cough have been COVID-19? | 07:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Short answer: no | 07:52 |
| IronY | they did not technically say no | 08:00 |
| tinwhiskers | *they* don't need to. The epidemiology doesn't support that myth, except for maybe a handful of people. | 08:00 |
| IronY | It is entirely supportable in january | 08:01 |
| IronY | but yeah probably not december | 08:01 |
| bin_bash | well it depends where you are. nebraska? no. | 08:01 |
| bin_bash | nyc? possibly. | 08:01 |
| IronY | I think washington state believes they got it earlier then they suspect | 08:02 |
| IronY | but yeah, agreed, geography would come into play | 08:02 |
| IronY | Here is some positive humans are not shit kind of story: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1934321 | 08:03 |
| tinwhiskers | It's not even possible in January. | 08:03 |
| tinwhiskers | (except for a handful of people) | 08:03 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: Not sure how you factor that | 08:03 |
| IronY | someone could of contracted covid within the span of jan who had been in wuhan | 08:03 |
| IronY | or crossed paths | 08:04 |
| tinwhiskers | There was 7 confirmed cases in the US at the start of Feb. At most that would mean about 70 people given the epidemiology evidence we have. | 08:04 |
| IronY | confirmed | 08:04 |
| IronY | the word confirmed contradicts what the speculation is | 08:04 |
| IronY | Did you real the whole article :P | 08:04 |
| tinwhiskers | I didn't read the article at all! | 08:05 |
| tinwhiskers | it's bullshit | 08:05 |
| IronY | Ok man, I mean it is not making any bold claims at all, and the sources whom are professionals in their field are basically saying 'There is a very small possibility but it is possible', But that is some strong opinion on a factoid you did not even bother to digest | 08:06 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, a very very small possibility for a handful of people, as I said | 08:06 |
| IronY | ok so you see the disconnect here | 08:06 |
| IronY | we are saying the same thing | 08:06 |
| tinwhiskers | But the answer to the question, "could your December cough have been COVID-19" is overwhelmingly NO | 08:07 |
| bin_bash | considering the complete lack of testing i expect there's probably 1 million cases in the US currently | 08:08 |
| bin_bash | and "viral pneumonia" being not considered covid at all in january | 08:08 |
| midfavila | ah yes, let us all speculate on something that most of us have no actual expertise on | 08:08 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: Admittedly the title is click bait but the majority of the article mostly centers around jan | 08:08 |
| bin_bash | midfavila: isnt that what the internet is for :P | 08:08 |
| tinwhiskers | right. obvious click-bait. did not read. | 08:08 |
| IronY | midfavila: You generally speculate on things you have no idea about, otherwise it be less speculation more confirmation | 08:09 |
| IronY | ;) | 08:09 |
| tinwhiskers | fair | 08:09 |
| midfavila | Fair enough, @bin_bash. I'm still waiting for when we all start using tires for clothes and pull a Mad Max, myself | 08:09 |
| IronY | thats next week | 08:09 |
| IronY | or when ever the internet goes out | 08:09 |
| IronY | which ever comes first | 08:09 |
| midfavila | right, I'll mark that in my calendar | 08:09 |
| midfavila | can't wait | 08:09 |
| nalkri | You can wear whatever you like | 08:10 |
| nalkri | Do it now, be the trendsetter | 08:10 |
| IronY | I wore a fallout 76 costume outside the other day | 08:10 |
| IronY | bandanna in front of my face and all | 08:10 |
| midfavila | Hahaha | 08:10 |
| midfavila | people probably thought you were with Antifa or some shit | 08:10 |
| midfavila | that's great, my dude | 08:10 |
| IronY | Loll | 08:10 |
| IronY | The only bandana thing I own was from a costume, So I said fuck it | 08:11 |
| midfavila | I'm tempted to wear one of those old plague doctor masks, myself | 08:11 |
| midfavila | just to fuck with people | 08:11 |
| IronY | sing songs from the beauty and the beast for dramatic effect | 08:12 |
| midfavila | Maybe | 08:12 |
| IronY | People right now - "We have never gone through anything like this before, it is going to scar our children for life" | 08:12 |
| midfavila | I might not have enough good boy points to pay off Disney's secret police though | 08:12 |
| IronY | History Books - "Ring around the rosy, pocket full of poseys, ashes, ashes, we all fall dead" | 08:13 |
| midfavila | that's something a lot of people forget | 08:13 |
| midfavila | nursery rhymes and shit are dark, man | 08:13 |
| bin_bash | ♫ london bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down! london bridge is falling down, my dear ladyyyy! ♫ | 08:16 |
| bin_bash | ♫ georgie porgie pudding and pie. kissed the girls and made them cry. when the boys came out to play, georgie porgie ran away! ♫ | 08:16 |
| IronY | things we put in carousels on top of babies sleeping areas | 08:16 |
| IronY | I heard the news say they will allow patients to suggest the use of non approved medication to fight covid19 | 08:17 |
| midfavila | yeah that's been a thing for a while | 08:18 |
| IronY | If it comes down to it, I am going to request they fight my covid19 with strong opiates | 08:18 |
| tinwhiskers | IronY: yeah, nice story about the RV place :-) | 08:18 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: This week has been good for re-instilling some national pride lol | 08:19 |
| midfavila | nationalism bad shhhh | 08:19 |
| IronY | Globalisim bad | 08:19 |
| tinwhiskers | 👍 | 08:19 |
| IronY | nationalism is what we had in the 90s | 08:19 |
| IronY | before shit went crazy | 08:19 |
| midfavila | that's before my time | 08:20 |
| IronY | you poor thing | 08:20 |
| midfavila | *shrug* Born too late to hack the planet, born too soon to explore the stars, born just in time for the Mad Maxian breakdown of society | 08:21 |
| IronY | hacking the planet pre 2000 was amazing | 08:21 |
| IronY | beige boxing and teleconfs | 08:21 |
| midfavila | I can only imagine | 08:21 |
| IronY | people storing credit cards in text files in wwwroot on nt servers | 08:21 |
| midfavila | I actually did a presentation on phreaking a few months back | 08:21 |
| IronY | My best teleconf story: | 08:22 |
| IronY | Do you know what a TTYOp is? | 08:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:10 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Trump tells Americans to expect 'a lot of death' as US cases pass 310,000 — from r/WorldNews at 06:10: Brazilian president Bolsonaro is being called "a monarch without powers" as the military elite appoints general Braga Netto as the "operational president" during pandemic. → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 08:22 |
| midfavila | I'm guessing it's someone who operates a teletype to assist the deaf | 08:22 |
| IronY | exactly, you basically open a modem terminal emulator, and atdt a phone number, and the operator requests the number you want to call, connects, and she acts as your gateway to the call | 08:23 |
| IronY | transcribing and speaking on your behalf | 08:23 |
| midfavila | Neato. | 08:23 |
| midfavila | Most of the phones around here have teletypes built right in, no need for an op | 08:23 |
| IronY | We used to have teleconfs with like 50 60 people from undernet | 08:23 |
| IronY | we would have the tty op call into the conf | 08:23 |
| IronY | and have her basically 'phone s3x0r' us | 08:23 |
| midfavila | hah | 08:24 |
| IronY | they were totally into it, and would often laugh | 08:24 |
| midfavila | Nice | 08:24 |
| midfavila | I've been meaning to pick up the supplies to recreate an old POTS network in my place | 08:24 |
| midfavila | there's software that can emulate the old analog control systems, like with the 2600hz trunk line tones and stuff | 08:24 |
| IronY | I do not even know how the hell that works anymore, all my electronics come from china | 08:24 |
| IronY | I should go check if it is even possible to source cheap electronics at this point | 08:25 |
| midfavila | Well, that's fair. I'm just weird | 08:25 |
| midfavila | you ever see those old S-100 bus systems? | 08:25 |
| nickodd | % | 08:26 |
| IronY | I worked as a lineman for a telecom and as a support tech for a ISP in my twenties | 08:26 |
| midfavila | Nice! | 08:26 |
| IronY | Lol fun fact, all our central phone buildings all over canada were protected by a 4 digit keycode lock, all having the same code | 08:26 |
| midfavila | epic gamer moment | 08:27 |
| IronY | everyone in them had 1 vax terminal, an instruction manual, and it had the passwords on the first page | 08:27 |
| IronY | how ever my friends dad owned the contracting company so I never did get to f*** with that one in fear of bankrupting a friend | 08:27 |
| IronY | This is probably one of my biggest life regrets lol | 08:27 |
| midfavila | that reminds me, I recall reading that the US's nuclear silos all had the same launch code - 00000000 - for at least a couple decades | 08:27 |
| IronY | i also read that | 08:27 |
| midfavila | not sure if true, but if so, that would be hilarious | 08:27 |
| midfavila | would make that scene in wargames a little less climatic though | 08:28 |
| midfavila | :v | 08:28 |
| IronY | I think it happened during the cuban missle thing since they were afraid of control override | 08:28 |
| IronY | so they had a 'blanket code' | 08:28 |
| midfavila | I mean, I kinda get that, but come on - 00000000? It's not like they're nukes, my dude | 08:28 |
| IronY | midfavila: Have you plaed with Asterisk / SIP? | 08:28 |
| IronY | played* | 08:28 |
| midfavila | No, never even heard of it; what is it? | 08:29 |
| IronY | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk_(PBX) | 08:29 |
| IronY | When i worked for the ISP, this was like mid 2000s, voip had just come out | 08:29 |
| IronY | everyone had little medatrix voip gateways, essentially bridging voip with their pots phone | 08:29 |
| IronY | The ISP did not change the default logins of the gateways, and the SIP credentials were stored on them | 08:30 |
| midfavila | Uh oh | 08:30 |
| IronY | I plugged those into Asterisk, and it turns out not only did the isp lock down the device to a mac, it did not limit the amount of outgoing lines | 08:30 |
| midfavila | >.>; | 08:30 |
| IronY | I was like 25 years old, every room in my house had a phone that could dial out at the same time with an extension, when you called my house you got an IVR, there was hold music, and I had a special bat phone that if worked called it would be diverted especially to that | 08:31 |
| IronY | (it was a red phone) | 08:31 |
| IronY | Man technology used to be so much cooler lol | 08:31 |
| midfavila | well, there's still cool tech | 08:31 |
| midfavila | it's just that most stuff is consoomer shit now | 08:31 |
| midfavila | you heard of the corp MNT? | 08:31 |
| IronY | It sounds familiar | 08:31 |
| midfavila | They're implementing a completely libre computing platform called Reform | 08:32 |
| midfavila | it's a modular laptop based on ARM atm, and they intend to release a future motherboard revision based on RISC-V | 08:32 |
| midfavila | https://mntre.com/reform/ | 08:32 |
| midfavila | check it | 08:32 |
| IronY | hrm | 08:32 |
| IronY | I think u just cost me a few hundred dollars | 08:32 |
| midfavila | "A few" | 08:32 |
| midfavila | You could say that :P | 08:32 |
| IronY | sorry i mean I wanted to get a | 08:33 |
| IronY | the name is escaping | 08:33 |
| IronY | computer chip with programmable gates | 08:33 |
| IronY | programmed in verilog | 08:33 |
| midfavila | FPGA | 08:33 |
| midfavila | FPGAs are cool | 08:33 |
| IronY | yes, I wanted to get an FPGA and fuck with that, and now is probably the best time to learn FPGAS | 08:33 |
| midfavila | I found a PCIe one from Intel | 08:33 |
| midfavila | and it has GPIO | 08:33 |
| IronY | 'found'? | 08:33 |
| midfavila | Well, I was screwing around on their site and happened across it | 08:34 |
| midfavila | let me see if I can pull the page up again | 08:34 |
| IronY | cannot remember fpga, used half the acronym describing it | 08:34 |
| IronY | fml lol | 08:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:25 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live update: NSW police launch criminal investigation into Ruby Princess – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 06:25: Brazilian president Bolsonaro is being called "a monarch without powers" as the military elite appoints general Braga Netto as the "operational president" during pandemic. → https://is.gd/Va3rB4 | 08:34 |
| midfavila | https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/programmable/solutions/partners/partner-profile/geb-enterprise-s-r-l-/board/pcie-standard-fpga-gpio-card-with-ep4cgx15-ep4cgx30-fpga.html | 08:34 |
| midfavila | man they really need to get shorter urls | 08:34 |
| IronY | I do believe this was one of the ones I was considering | 08:35 |
| midfavila | They're super neat | 08:35 |
| IronY | I started with pi gpio, moved to MCUS, FPGAS seems like the logical next step | 08:35 |
| midfavila | way above my level though, at the moment | 08:35 |
| midfavila | I haven't got any practical programming experience | 08:35 |
| IronY | the whole world just pressed pause | 08:36 |
| IronY | now is a good time to learn a new skill | 08:36 |
| midfavila | oh, I intend to | 08:36 |
| midfavila | I have an internship coming up at a local security lab | 08:36 |
| midfavila | the CEO intends to tutor me in Python and C | 08:36 |
| IronY | Then go jump on the internetz and start your Python / C education now | 08:37 |
| midfavila | I would, but I need twelve academic credits in two months to finish high school, haha | 08:37 |
| IronY | what country? | 08:37 |
| midfavila | Canada | 08:37 |
| IronY | I am in Ottawa | 08:37 |
| IronY | how are we expecting u to do that? | 08:37 |
| midfavila | Fredericton | 08:37 |
| midfavila | and nobody is | 08:37 |
| midfavila | so I'm pretty much fucked, which is great. thanks socdev | 08:38 |
| IronY | :/ I teach a course at a local college, I feel ur pain | 08:38 |
| midfavila | and with the virus that shall not be named going around, I can't even work | 08:38 |
| IronY | have students asking 'Will I loose marks if this is late' | 08:38 |
| midfavila | Oof. | 08:38 |
| IronY | I can only respond honestly and say fuck no it is taking everything I have just to mark your work without being distracted by the world burning | 08:38 |
| IronY | I am basically at this point just considering giving anyone who hands stuff thats remotely legible in an A on it | 08:39 |
| midfavila | Personally I think that when you're teaching theory to someone, you have to take as much time as possible to break it down into discrete steps | 08:39 |
| midfavila | otherwise they only develop a superfluous understanding of the subject material | 08:39 |
| IronY | midfavila: That does not really work as well has you think it may | 08:39 |
| IronY | a class is generally divided into different skill levels | 08:39 |
| midfavila | Well, probably not :P | 08:39 |
| IronY | sadly you need to target the middle ground | 08:39 |
| midfavila | oh, that. i'm all too familiar with that | 08:39 |
| midfavila | 's half the reason I'm stuck in the situation I am. Kept cutting class 'cause it was boring | 08:40 |
| midfavila | like, do I want to study high school algebra, or computer security. that's a tough question | 08:40 |
| IronY | my biggest mission as a theory teacher is to pair the people I think are towards the bottom with the people I think towards the top as quickly as possible | 08:40 |
| IronY | then they end up college friends | 08:40 |
| IronY | and it works itself out | 08:40 |
| midfavila | Makes sense | 08:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 06:27 UTC: worldnews: Vietnam protests Beijing’s sinking of South China Sea boat; Vietnam has lodged an official protest with China following the sinking of a Vietnamese fishing boat it said had been rammed by a Chinese maritime surveillance vessel near islands in the disputed South China Sea → https://is.gd/WVAgEi | 08:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:38 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live update: NSW police launch criminal investigation into Ruby Princess – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 06:38: UK NHS coronavirus nurse, 23, dies after 12-hour shift 'without right protective kit' → https://is.gd/Va3rB4 | 08:53 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: For First Time Since Outbreak Began, Use of ICU Beds in Italy has Dropped (10050 votes) | https://redd.it/fuyw8l | 09:12 |
| jester | https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-interactive/2020/apr/04/coronavirus-cases-in-australia-map-confirmed-numbers-stats-how-many-cases-of-covid-19-nsw-by-postcode-maps-victoria-live-data-qld-sa-wa-tas-nt-act-latest-statistics | 09:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Trump tells Americans to expect 'a lot of death' as US cases pass 310,000 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 09:17 |
| ____GOD____ | When molecular biologist Richard Ebright (Rutgers) was asked if the 3.x percent section of the "bat coronavirus ratg13" genome sequence (submitted to the NCBI database by Wuhan Institute of Virology and supposedly collected in 2013 from a bat cave or mine shaft in yunnan, china) that differs from SARS-COV-2 could have been added in a Wuhan lab by infecting a series of ferrets with that bat coronavirus, Richard Ebright answered: YES | 09:23 |
| ____GOD____ | That genome sequence also seemingly has the notorious spike protein feature that SARS-COV-2 has | 09:24 |
| ____GOD____ | (supposedly the ONLY sequence known to have such a feature, aside from SARS-COV-2) | 09:26 |
| ____GOD____ | "The receptor binding protein spike (S) gene was highly divergent to other CoVs" | 09:26 |
| ____GOD____ | "The phylogenetic analysis also showed that RaTG13 is the closest relative of the nCoV89 2019 and form a distinct lineage from other SARSr-CoVs" | 09:28 |
| ____GOD____ | Those 2 quotes are from a paper with a wuhan lab employee (or multiple) listed as authors: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.22.914952v1.full.pdf | 09:28 |
| ____GOD____ | Same lab that submitted that sequence to NCBI | 09:29 |
| ____GOD____ | Anyway, after Ebright stated the remaining 3.x percent could have been bred into that genome sequence in a Wuhan lab, there is not really any question anymore | 09:30 |
| ____GOD____ | And considering how many times chinese research labs have leaked dangerous things, the entire human species needs to MAKE SURE that china isn't allowed to do that again | 09:31 |
| ____GOD____ | Thanks in advance for telling friends and family | 09:31 |
| xrogaan | Good luck with that, meanwhile our industry is still dependent on China to manufacture pretty much everything. | 09:33 |
| ____GOD____ | Actually A LOT of manufacturing left china already in past 5 years | 09:34 |
| ____GOD____ | And obviously A LOT MORE imports will be bought from other countries now, china is nosediving badly | 09:35 |
| Zalyssa | please go away | 09:42 |
| IronY | MrNodeBot: covid19-canada on | 09:43 |
| __GOD__ | Have also been noticing how RIDICULOUS the political correctness of some scientific papers is also. "Basic research involving passage of bat SARS-like coronaviruses in cell culture and/or animal models have been ongoing in BSL-2 (relatively low security research labs) for many years in multiple laboratories across the world 25-28" (ALL of those BSL2 lab papers (25-28) were chinese, so maybe china is "across the World" from California where that paper was | 09:51 |
| __GOD__ | written...): http://virological.org/t/the-proximal-origin-of-sars-cov-2/398 | 09:51 |
| __GOD__ | Sort of amazingly irresponsibly china that such dangerous things were being tested outside of a BSL4 level lab | 09:52 |
| __GOD__ | That's like letting kids play with dynamite or something | 09:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:43 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live news: Hancock says sunbathing is against the rules [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/3SvDHW | 09:54 |
| __GOD__ | It's concerning how some in the bio-research community have seemed so intent on concealing some things. In this paper, the section on "Selection during passage" (from ferrets, for example), seems intentionally misleading | 09:58 |
| __GOD__ | There is definitely some cause for the public to be concerned about the way some of the information has been presented by some in the bio-research lab industry | 09:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 07:56 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Buongiorno a tutti, mentre eravate via [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/2A3mNz | 10:00 |
| __GOD__ | And one reason to know for sure if it leaked from a Wuhan lab is this: "if SARS-CoV-2 pre-adapted in another animal species (in a lab) then we are at risk of future re-emergence events even if the current epidemic is controlled" | 10:00 |
| aradesh | apparently the queen is going to give us a speech today about the virus | 10:04 |
| aradesh | italy's deaths are going down | 10:06 |
| rajrajraj | raj> i dont do homework, although i work from home | 10:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:02 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Il coronavirus dal punto di vista dei giornalisti ecco da CNN un articolo. — from r/WorldNews at 08:02: WHO Faces Calls for Leader to Resign over Coronavirus Failure → https://is.gd/CHWCzd | 10:06 |
| __GOD__ | To any that understand the italian language (and to any that are alright with using youtube's translated subtitles): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCOx-hewCcc&feature=youtu.be | 10:11 |
| __GOD__ | That was from 2015 | 10:11 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: 3M denies German officials' allegations that a mask shipment was diverted to the US in 'an act of modern piracy' (10543 votes) | https://redd.it/fv6ibg | 10:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1348 cases (now 1204748), +55 deaths (now 64813), +663 recoveries (now 247301) since 3 hours ago — India: +506 cases (now 3588) since 8 hours ago — Austria: +491 recoveries (now 2998) since 16 hours ago | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks — from r/WorldNews at 08:22: FDIC Announces First Coronavirus-Fueled Bank Failure in the United States → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 10:25 |
| sneep | https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/03/26/covid-19-best-worst-coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-14664 Nice collection of conspiracy theories | 10:27 |
| aradesh | sneep: i've seen 3) a lot | 10:35 |
| aradesh | and also 1) | 10:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:27 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live news: Hancock says sunbathing is against the rules — from r/WorldNews at 08:27: Mosque religious cluster in Malaysia now up to 40,000 likely infected by Covid-19, says health official → https://is.gd/3SvDHW | 10:37 |
| __GOD__ | So...considering how notorious china is for low quality unreliable electronics (unless managed by non-china company), it's OBVIOUSLY COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS that ANY international organisation allowed china to do lab research involving such potential pandemics | 10:39 |
| mefistofeles | __GOD__: China does around 80% of biotech, for decades now, what do you mean? | 10:40 |
| __GOD__ | Imagine china said it wanted to, Western countries said "WOAH, that is NOT a good idea"...so china said "racist!" and Western country said: "Oh, can kill the human species, but don't say that word!" | 10:41 |
| mefistofeles | __GOD__: what? | 10:41 |
| __GOD__ | Why else would the french have assisted with building that BSL4 lab? | 10:42 |
| __GOD__ | Obviously "money" is one reason | 10:42 |
| __GOD__ | Know why china's high speed trains stopped crashing? Western engineers were hired | 10:43 |
| __GOD__ | In china even the elevator technicians I met were Western engineers | 10:43 |
| __GOD__ | Only met one, admittedly. But how many elevator technicians are there in the World? | 10:44 |
| darsie | 42 | 10:44 |
| __GOD__ | Well, the safe elevators in china anyway | 10:44 |
| __GOD__ | There are seemingly some that didn't have a Western engineer | 10:44 |
| __GOD__ | darsie: Haha | 10:45 |
| mefistofeles | __GOD__: can you stop the crazy talk? | 10:45 |
| mefistofeles | and the racism | 10:45 |
| __GOD__ | That isn't "racism", china is multi-ethnic | 10:46 |
| __GOD__ | Although the han chinese have seemingly been trying to exterminate the Uyghurs | 10:46 |
| mefistofeles | ok, hate speech, whatever it is, stop it | 10:46 |
| __GOD__ | It wasn't "hate speech" either | 10:46 |
| __GOD__ | How would it have been? | 10:46 |
| __GOD__ | FACT is that French engineers were brought on to stop china's high speed trains from crashing | 10:47 |
| __GOD__ | FACTS are NEVER "hate speech" | 10:47 |
| mefistofeles | ok, cool | 10:47 |
| __GOD__ | Seems OBVIOUS that preventing global pandemics is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than any concerns about "hate speech" anyway | 10:48 |
| __GOD__ | Especially when some countries would harness that sort of ridiculous weakness | 10:48 |
| __GOD__ | There has been enough attempts by minorities to exploit that in Western countries as it is | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:45 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks — from r/WorldNews at 08:45: Mosque religious cluster in Malaysia now up to 40,000 likely infected by Covid-19, says health official → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 10:49 |
| __GOD__ | Have so many FACTS from direct experience of being cheated, lied to, and scammed in china by chinese that it's ridiculous | 10:50 |
| mefistofeles | ok, France spiking still, not following Italy, Spain or Germany trajectories :/ | 10:51 |
| Arsanerit | USA and Brazil are going to be the worst hit countries. | 10:51 |
| mefistofeles | maybe t hey changed something in the testing this last few days? | 10:51 |
| mefistofeles | *these | 10:51 |
| mefistofeles | Arsanerit: I'm worried about India as well | 10:52 |
| __GOD__ | Nah, US has been overly cautious. But NYC does have largest chinese population in Western hemisphere | 10:52 |
| Arsanerit | mefistofeles: At least they don't seem to be denying the problem. | 10:52 |
| Arsanerit | Bolsonaro does not believe the virus kills anyone. | 10:52 |
| aldwich | i saw France spiking last week, just when the WHO number for Europe seems to level off, two days in a row. Does France have a backlog of yet unreported cases or what is causing this do we think? | 10:52 |
| __GOD__ | india doesn't have any idea how many in india are already infected by covid19...really no idea | 10:53 |
| mefistofeles | Arsanerit: to e honest, it doesn't matter what a president believes, USA has shown that xD | 10:53 |
| mefistofeles | aldwich: This can be caused by changes in testing, maybe they are testing more now | 10:53 |
| mefistofeles | but not sure | 10:53 |
| Arsanerit | mefistofeles: True actually, all Brazilian regional governors have ordered social distancing. | 10:53 |
| Arsanerit | French death rate is not slowing down much yet 50 days after first reported death | 10:54 |
| mefistofeles | aldwich: but, the death curve is not showing slowdown, so probably not :/ | 10:54 |
| mefistofeles | for France that is | 10:54 |
| mefistofeles | Arsanerit: exactly | 10:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:48 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA — from r/WorldNews at 08:48: Mosque religious cluster in Malaysia now up to 40,000 likely infected by Covid-19, says health official → https://is.gd/mz2byf | 10:56 |
| sneep | __GOD__: gtfo | 10:56 |
| mefistofeles | sneep: relax | 10:56 |
| mefistofeles | just ignore him/her | 10:56 |
| aldwich | mefistofeles: true, it was the daily count of new cases, so their R(0) was greater 1 for sure, mid-week last week, two bars in the WHO chart looked steady, that gave me false hope/optimism. | 10:56 |
| aldwich | as regards Brazil, how independent or well funded/eqipped are regional administrations to fight the spread without central gov't support? | 10:58 |
| Arsanerit | Robert Koch Institut in Germany states that the R in Germany is now down to 1 (my source did not specify R or R₀) | 10:59 |
| mefistofeles | Arsanerit: nice, in Italy they reported thata as well | 10:59 |
| mefistofeles | and it's amazing how the curves for thos two look really similar | 10:59 |
| Arsanerit | aldwich: No clue, but reportedly the healthcare is terribly lacking for the poor already without apandemic. | 11:00 |
| aldwich | LatAm is a crisis in the making. what's going on in Ecuador is shocking, Brazil's utter ignorance from top down downright criminal. I expect a change in gov't = coup at some point as a result of that, or possibly a split of the country. | 11:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:56 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Brasile — from r/WorldNews at 08:56: Coronavirus: Criminal investigation launched into Ruby Princess debacle → https://is.gd/BT04ee | 11:02 |
| mefistofeles | aldwich: yeah, Colombia is showing some bad signs as well | 11:02 |
| mefistofeles | they started with over 3k test a day, and now they are struggling with 1k a day, showing still an exponential increase and large under reporting | 11:02 |
| mefistofeles | 32 deaths with only 1.2k confirmed | 11:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:01 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live news: Hancock says follow the rules or we'll ban all exercise outside — from r/WorldNews at 09:01: Coronavirus: Criminal investigation launched into Ruby Princess debacle → https://is.gd/3SvDHW | 11:08 |
| aldwich | and just when I was dusting off my bike for spring. am not keen on a complete ban of exercise, but no group exercise or anything of that sort. maybe parks should get shut on weekends but open during weekday mornings? | 11:11 |
| __GOD__ | Today a chinese restaurant tried to scam Me for lunch also...bought "tofu and green broccoli"...chinese restaurant sent 90%+ rice with some bits of egg and bits of green onion or similar | 11:11 |
| __GOD__ | That sorta thing starts to seem normal in china after a while | 11:12 |
| __GOD__ | I would buy on an app, but the chinese app doesn't function properly with non-china cards | 11:13 |
| __GOD__ | Easier to laugh about when it doesn't involve a chinese research lab though | 11:14 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1859 cases (now 1206607), +186 deaths (now 64999), +653 recoveries (now 247954) since an hour ago — Belgium: +1260 cases (now 19691), +164 deaths (now 1447), +504 recoveries (now 3751) since 17 hours ago — India: +506 cases (now 3588) since 9 hours ago | 11:21 |
| aldwich | Arsanerit: reg R0=1, the RKI said that in an interview. source: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/gesundheit/coronavirus/rki-zahlen-corona-sterberate-steigt-die-eindaemmung-funktioniert-16710112.html | 11:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks — from r/WorldNews at 09:24: Over 100 Doctors And Nurses Have Died Combating Coronavirus Across The World → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 11:26 |
| aradesh | good news from italy | 11:35 |
| IronY | sadly good news for the world | 11:36 |
| IronY | it means it killed off the most vulnerable | 11:36 |
| kreyren | aradesh, what news | 11:36 |
| aradesh | that their lowest death toll in 2 weeks | 11:36 |
| mefistofeles | aradesh: yes | 11:37 |
| kreyren | does not seem good to me | 11:37 |
| aradesh | why not? | 11:37 |
| merethan | lulz, das not bass :P | 11:37 |
| merethan | Oops brong channel | 11:37 |
| kreyren | aradesh, based on availabe info i am expecting another wave of deaths where the death toll seems to be either caused by italy not reporting deaths accurately or the patients that are currently hospitalized are handled better for this time | 11:39 |
| kreyren | but i may be wrong O.o | 11:39 |
| IronY | kreyren: It is more likely the average age in italy is now lower | 11:40 |
| kreyren | IronY, possibly | 11:41 |
| kreyren | Is there any other country that has the situation under control like czechia? | 11:41 |
| aldwich | Singapore had, but with a new wave of infections, they're now going for a full lock down shortly | 11:42 |
| tinwhiskers | South Korea | 11:43 |
| kreyren | Slovakia seems to also handle the situation well enough now | 11:44 |
| aldwich | as regards Italy, they were cautiously optimistic yesterday but also said it's too early to lift restrictions. Give it a few more days to see whether it stabolises further. they had R0 about 1 but also said it's not below 1 yet | 11:44 |
| tinwhiskers | Malaysia as well | 11:44 |
| kreyren | tinwhiskers, elaborate on reasoning for south korea? | 11:45 |
| tinwhiskers | Their numbers are not increasing as much as czechia and they have had infections far longer | 11:46 |
| kreyren | tinwhiskers, Do they conduct tests? | 11:47 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes. A lot | 11:47 |
| kreyren | interesting O.o | 11:47 |
| tinwhiskers | They are like the poster-child for a well managed response | 11:48 |
| tinwhiskers | They had experience with SARS and a population already accustomed to wearing masks | 11:48 |
| kreyren | ppl are wearing masks in czechia too though O.o hospitals are enforcing that even when there is no epidemic | 11:49 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes. That's great. | 11:50 |
| tinwhiskers | They're doing a great job | 11:50 |
| kreyren | What is malaysia doing better then czech? | 11:50 |
| tinwhiskers | But you asked if there were any other countries that have the situation under control like czechia, and there are a few. | 11:50 |
| tinwhiskers | Similarly, the slope of their infection curve is slightly lower than czechia, but I didn't say they were doing better, just "like czechia" | 11:51 |
| kreyren | ah O.o good | 11:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +4631 cases (now 1211238), +476 deaths (now 65475), +3868 recoveries (now 251822) since 33 minutes ago — Spain: +4591 cases (now 130759), +471 deaths (now 12418), +3861 recoveries (now 38080) since 33 minutes ago — Austria: +491 recoveries (now 2998) since 18 hours ago | 11:51 |
| tinwhiskers | although they are doing slightly better :-) | 11:52 |
| kreyren | Hm O.o | 11:52 |
| tinwhiskers | But don't fret, czechia is a shining example to everyone that people in Europe can do this as well. | 11:53 |
| tinwhiskers | People who haven't gone through this before, so they are really leading in some way | 11:54 |
| mefistofeles | %title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.14.988345v1.full | 11:55 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.biorxiv.org: SARS-CoV-2 invades host cells via a novel route: CD147-spike protein | bioRxiv | 11:55 |
| kreyren | Well czechia has experience with handling these kinds of situation assuming that we have a trained team in military to handle these kinds of scenarios in europe O.o | 11:57 |
| ecks | isn't CD147 related to malaria too? | 11:57 |
| mefistofeles | ecks: yes | 11:57 |
| tinwhiskers | kreyren: lots of places have trained not don't have actual experience like those Asian countries who went through SARS | 11:57 |
| IronY | mefistofeles: I think that was the project my computer was folding yesterday, neat | 11:58 |
| mefistofeles | IronY: really? Nice | 11:58 |
| mefistofeles | I was actually wondering if there was already some MD sims going on with that receptor | 11:59 |
| kreyren | tinwhiskers, true | 11:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2770 cases (now 1214008), +151 deaths (now 65626), +1775 recoveries (now 253597) since 18 minutes ago — Iran: +2483 cases (now 58226), +151 deaths (now 3603) since 48 minutes ago — Australia: +137 cases (now 5687), +1730 recoveries (now 2315) since 18 hours ago | 12:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:00 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: 'This is crisis teaching': students with disabilites slip through cracks as coronavirus shuts schools [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/BM5rSB | 12:09 |
| blkshp | Warning: swearing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgpMGNZcp74 | 12:09 |
| IronY | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgDqv_JFn5I | 12:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:12 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna — from r/WorldNews at 10:12: 19 flights departed #Wuhan in January for New York or San Francisco — and the flights were largely full, according to VariFlight. For about 4,000 travelers, there was no enhanced screening. → https://is.gd/6mJr94 | 12:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:17 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks — from r/WorldNews at 10:17: 19 flights departed #Wuhan in January for New York or San Francisco — and the flights were largely full, according to VariFlight. For about 4,000 travelers, there was no enhanced screening. → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 12:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:18 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Spain records smallest rate of increase in infections since start of crisis — from r/WorldNews at 10:18: Coronavirus: don’t abandon your cat because of unproven scientific research, experts say → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 12:27 |
| Biep[m] | [Here](https://covid-measures.github.io/) you can play with a model and see how various policies are likely to affect the curve. | 12:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:33 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Matt Hancock warns of tougher UK lockdown if too many break rules — from r/WorldNews at 10:33: China joins UN Human Rights Council panel despite troubling record, response to coronavirus → https://is.gd/UodhZw | 12:39 |
| yuriwho | great article: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html | 12:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1295 cases (now 1215303) since 48 minutes ago — Russia: +658 cases (now 5389) since 48 minutes ago — Switzerland: +590 cases (now 21100) since 48 minutes ago | 12:52 |
| yuriwho | %t | 12:52 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From www.nytimes.com: A German Exception? Why the Country’s Coronavirus Death Rate Is Low - The New York Times | 12:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:48 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks — from r/WorldNews at 10:48: China joins UN Human Rights Council panel despite troubling record, response to coronavirus → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 12:52 |
| mefistofeles | yuriwho: ah yeah, posted yesterday, really good one | 12:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:49 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live news: Hancock says follow the rules or we'll ban all exercise outside — from r/WorldNews at 10:49: China joins UN Human Rights Council panel despite troubling record, response to coronavirus → https://is.gd/3SvDHW | 12:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:04 UTC: Coronavirus world map: which countries have the most cases and deaths?: Covid-19 has spread around the planet, sending billions of people into lockdown as health services struggle to cope. Find out where the virus has spread, and where it has been most deadly [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/O1uQHg | 13:10 |
| yuriwho | another major factor about Germany that is overlooked, Merkel has a Ph.D. in Physical Chemistry and is very data/evidence driven in decision making | 13:12 |
| aldwich | Boris started the whole "science led" approach. only problem was that he started with some scientific nonsene (we don't need testing, washing our hands while singing happy birthday, that should kinda do it...) | 13:14 |
| Akash[m] | %data nepal | 13:15 |
| Brainstorm | Akash[m]: In all areas, Nepal, there are 9 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 1 recoveries as of 12 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Nepal for time series data. | 13:15 |
| aldwich | German ICUs have the capacity to take Italian patients, whereas the UK has insufficient ICUs for domestic demand, decades of under-investments showing now | 13:15 |
| yuriwho | I think Boris sought out the science advice that matched his desired political policy | 13:15 |
| aldwich | absolutely! | 13:15 |
| aldwich | yuriwho: i bet cummings had his hands in that. so they selected the theories/models that suited their motive | 13:16 |
| yuriwho | indeed | 13:17 |
| Emmanuel_Chanel | Hello from Japan! | 13:17 |
| yuriwho | greetings from Canada | 13:17 |
| aradesh | ハロー | 13:17 |
| Shock | Emmanuel_Chanel: hello! | 13:17 |
| aldwich | greetings from UK | 13:17 |
| yuriwho | hmmm, Spain overtook Italy | 13:19 |
| yuriwho | Canada's largest region still has 0 cases | 13:21 |
| yuriwho | Nunavut | 13:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1200 cases (now 1216503), +54 deaths (now 65685), +58 recoveries (now 253684) since 34 minutes ago — Portugal: +754 cases (now 11278) since an hour ago — Russia: +658 cases (now 5389) since an hour ago | 13:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:16 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Spain records smallest rate of increase in infections since start of crisis — from r/WorldNews at 11:16: People across the UK are apparently burning cellphone masts and abusing engineers on the street over baseless conspiracy theories linking the coronavirus to 5G networks → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 13:29 |
| blkshp | morons | 13:35 |
| hirogen | it cant be the masks becaue people on cruise ships are getting infected quickly and fast in the middle of the ocean!! | 13:36 |
| aldwich | i wonder what started this 5g conspiracy theory. it's so ludicrous, not to mention the possible consequences. | 13:38 |
| jacklsw | must be somebody wanted to crush china's 5g lead | 13:38 |
| yuriwho | ^ | 13:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:36 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus, il Papa celebra la Domenica delle Palme nella basilica deserta - la Repubblica — from r/WorldNews at 11:36: People across the UK are apparently burning cellphone masts and abusing engineers on the street over baseless conspiracy theories linking the coronavirus to 5G networks → https://is.gd/pp9FaO | 13:41 |
| yuriwho | https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/04/04/canada-will-get-millions-of-masks-in-the-next-48-hours-pm-says.html | 13:41 |
| Albright | Something to whistle along to past the graveyard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBoojBTEPaI&feature=emb_title | 13:43 |
| IndoAnon | Emmanuel_Chanel: got stucked in jp? | 13:44 |
| yuriwho | %T https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vLPefHYWpY | 13:46 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From www.youtube.com: A Guide To Designing Low-Cost Ventilators for COVID-19 - YouTube | 13:46 |
| Emmanuel_Chanel | IndoAnon: ??? COVID-19 deaths in Japan are 70. Very few to Japan's huge population. https://twitter.com/konotarogomame/with_replies | 13:48 |
| IndoAnon | Emmanuel_Chanel: 日本人ですか | 13:52 |
| Emmanuel_Chanel | Yes. Emmanuel Chanel is just a handle. | 13:52 |
| Emmanuel_Chanel | あなたは日本人ですか？ / Are you Japanese? | 13:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus* at 11:36 UTC: Coronavirus: Daily COVID-19 deaths in Spain, France and Italy continue to fall — from r/WorldNews at 11:36: People across the UK are apparently burning cellphone masts and abusing engineers on the street over baseless conspiracy theories linking the coronavirus to 5G networks → https://is.gd/hwv1wo | 13:53 |
| IndoAnon | いいえ、インドネシア人です。 | 13:53 |
| IndoAnon | also, i'm concerned about death toll in assisted living/retirement home... jp have so many that they have to import nurses all over asia | 13:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:45 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Spain records smallest rate of increase in infections since start of crisis — from r/WorldNews at 11:45: People across the UK are apparently burning cellphone masts and abusing engineers on the street over baseless conspiracy theories linking the coronavirus to 5G networks → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 13:59 |
| yuriwho | I hope their low death rate is because of the 2 drugs they are trialing there | 14:02 |
| darsie | Brainstorm: These news are not at this URL. | 14:04 |
| yuriwho | https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/these-drugs-don-t-target-coronavirus-they-target-us | 14:05 |
| darsie | Drugs are bad. | 14:05 |
| Emmanuel_Chanel | darsie: yuriwho would say "medicines" actually. Not drugs like cocaines, heroins, or so. | 14:06 |
| darsie | :) | 14:06 |
| yuriwho | not from north America I see | 14:07 |
| Biep[m] | <midfavila "man they really need to get shor"> You can hide the url with `[Description](https://some-really-long-url)`. | 14:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:13 UTC: Lord Bath of Longleat dies after contracting coronavirus: Aristocrat tested positive for Covid-19 after being admitted to hospital, his estate says [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/UA3MtZ | 14:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2400 cases (now 1218903), +175 deaths (now 65860), +60 recoveries (now 253744) since an hour ago — Netherlands: +1224 cases (now 17851), +115 deaths (now 1766) since 2 hours ago — Portugal: +754 cases (now 11278) since 2 hours ago | 14:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:36 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 14:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks, Singapore sees largest case jump [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 14:48 |
| aldwich | Any thoughts what might have caused this jump in Singapore's numbers? | 14:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:50 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks, Singapore sees biggest case jump [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 14:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:51 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Spain records smallest rate of increase in infections since start of crisis [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 15:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:00 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's daily death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks, Singapore sees biggest case jump [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 15:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:08 UTC: (news): Italy's daily coronavirus death toll drops to lowest in 2 weeks, Singapore sees biggest case jump [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GgtooG | 15:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:20 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York braces for worst week yet as cases continue to rise — from r/WorldNews at 13:20: Elton John Launches $1 Million Coronavirus Emergency Fund To Protect People With HIV → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 15:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 13:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Exercise out of the home 'could be banned' if people flout rules — from r/WorldNews at 13:23: Elton John Launches $1 Million Coronavirus Emergency Fund To Protect People With HIV → https://is.gd/kNyqxU | 15:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +6807 cases (now 1225710), +663 deaths (now 66523), +77 recoveries (now 253821) since an hour ago — United Kingdom: +5903 cases (now 47806), +619 deaths (now 4932) since an hour ago — Germany: +944 cases (now 97052) since 3 hours ago | 15:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:34 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York braces for worst week yet as cases continue to rise — from r/WorldNews at 13:34: Taiwan's coronavirus response is among the best globally → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 15:38 |
| dzho | tzag, pandemic watchers | 15:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 13:45 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Exercise out of the home 'could be banned' if people flout rules — from r/WorldNews at 13:45: Taiwan's coronavirus response is among the best globally → https://is.gd/kNyqxU | 15:51 |
| IndoAnon | best China | 15:52 |
| Jigsy | So are people in the world still panic buying stuff? | 15:53 |
| Jigsy | Or is that phase of COVID-19 over? | 15:54 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: In NZ, a man has been arrested after posting a video coughing and sneezing at fellow shoppers at a Christchurch supermarket: "The man has been charged with endangering life by criminal nuisance and obstruction of a medical officer of health." (11647 votes) | https://redd.it/fvaeo6 | 15:55 |
| jacklsw | ^ coronavirus challenge again? | 16:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:57 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York braces for worst week yet as cases continue to rise — from r/WorldNews at 13:57: Taiwan's coronavirus response is among the best globally → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 16:03 |
| spybert | Jigsy: I think they are still panic buying things like toilet paper and hand sanitizer | 16:04 |
| ecks | i think toilet paper has lost its appeal | 16:07 |
| dzho | I'm re-evaluating how I look at the toilet-paper buying. | 16:10 |
| dzho | I think it was a rational stocking up for spending more time at home that then took on a life of its own as concerted stocking up depleted supplies. | 16:11 |
| dzho | as supplies depleted people bought it when they could because they had seen that it wouldn't always be available, which is also rational | 16:12 |
| aldwich | i was long 9 rolls and now the shelves are full again | 16:12 |
| dzho | womp | 16:12 |
| dzho | who knew toiletries futures would result in your taking a bath? | 16:13 |
| aldwich | i think the Sun had the story 2 weeks back that booze is now the new toilet roll. and my local wine supplier, he's actually so overwhelmed with orders that he cannot accept any new one for the time being, LOL | 16:14 |
| IndoAnon | lol | 16:14 |
| aldwich | dzho: i did not attempt to corner the market, other muppets tried that | 16:14 |
| jacklsw | reddit is down | 16:14 |
| IndoAnon | eh | 16:14 |
| dzho | there had been some talk around the house of me going on a whisky run for some septugenarians around the corner | 16:15 |
| IndoAnon | jacklsw: super slow | 16:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:09 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live news: Hancock warns of tighter lockdown as death toll rises to 4,934 — from r/WorldNews at 14:09: Taiwan's coronavirus response is among the best globally → https://is.gd/3SvDHW | 16:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:16 UTC: (news): Demand for jigsaw puzzles is surging as coronavirus keeps millions of Americans indoors — from r/WorldNews at 14:16: Taiwan's coronavirus response is among the best globally → https://is.gd/cVIPMB | 16:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:21 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA — from r/WorldNews at 14:21: Taiwan's coronavirus response is among the best globally → https://is.gd/XJEoF0 | 16:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:27 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Arkansas gov. calls bidding wars a 'global jungle,' Pope celebrates Palm Sunday — from r/WorldNews at 14:27: Police warning over Calderwood's second home visit, Police have issued a warning to Scotland's chief medical officer for visiting her second home in Fife during the coronavirus lockdown. → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 16:34 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Majority of Taiwanese support replacing 'Republic of China' with 'Taiwan' on passport cover (10010 votes) | https://redd.it/fv0an8 | 16:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:37 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Biden says the way fired Navy captain was treated is 'close to criminal' — from r/WorldNews at 14:37: Police warning over Calderwood's second home visit, Police have issued a warning to Scotland's chief medical officer for visiting her second home in Fife during the coronavirus lockdown. → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 16:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 14:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Exercise out of the home 'could be banned' if people flout rules — from r/WorldNews at 14:42: Coronavirus: 'Modern piracy' - US accused of redirecting 200,000 Germany-bound masks for own use → https://is.gd/kNyqxU | 16:46 |
| sam_ | mask is useful | 16:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1240 cases (now 1226950) since an hour ago — Germany: +966 cases (now 97074) since 4 hours ago — US: +570 cases (now 312207) since 2 hours ago | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Biden says the way fired Navy captain was treated is 'close to criminal' — from r/WorldNews at 14:52: Coronavirus: 'Modern piracy' - US accused of redirecting 200,000 Germany-bound masks for own use → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 16:59 |
| Jigsy | Is Reddit working? | 17:00 |
| ubLIX | from UK, slow, but yes | 17:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:55 UTC: Health policy: Ministers and NHS deny reports of rift over coronavirus response — from r/WorldNews at 14:55: Coronavirus: 'Modern piracy' - US accused of redirecting 200,000 Germany-bound masks for own use → https://is.gd/XJYazC | 17:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +1243 cases (now 97351) since 5 hours ago — US: +722 cases (now 312359) since 2 hours ago — Indiana, US: +458 cases (now 4411) since 5 hours ago | 17:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:08 UTC: (news): Bill Gates calls coronavirus pandemic a 'nightmare scenario,' but predicts lower death toll than Trump [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/prf8zy | 17:12 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +9154 cases (now 1236544), +645 deaths (now 67221), +1725 recoveries (now 255589) since 18 minutes ago — US: +8978 cases (now 321337), +642 deaths (now 9128), +1725 recoveries (now 16553) since 18 minutes ago — New York, US: +7256 cases (now 122031), +594 deaths (now 4159) since 18 minutes ago | 17:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:21 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: La conferenza stampa della protezione civile inizierà alle 18 — from r/WorldNews at 15:21: Domestic abuse cases soar amid coronavirus lockdown, with charities no longer being able to "effectively support" victims → https://is.gd/SIVvCg | 17:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:32 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Biden says the way fired Navy captain was treated is 'close to criminal' — from r/WorldNews at 15:32: Domestic abuse cases soar amid coronavirus lockdown, with charities no longer being able to "effectively support" victims → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 17:36 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Taiwan offers masks and medical aid to foreign countries, angering Beijing (10071 votes) | https://redd.it/fv6xh3 | 17:43 |
| python476 | o/ | 17:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:44 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Bullard says economy's not in 'free fall,' New Yorkers salute frontline workers — from r/WorldNews at 15:44: Domestic abuse cases soar amid coronavirus lockdown, with charities no longer being able to "effectively support" victims → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 17:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1114 cases (now 1237658), +58 deaths (now 67279) since 33 minutes ago — Florida, US: +606 cases (now 12151) since 5 hours ago — Maryland, US: +484 cases (now 3609) since 48 minutes ago | 17:52 |
| LjL | python476: \o | 17:52 |
| LjL | yikes it's already press conference time... i slept in, to say the least ;( | 17:54 |
| graphine | hej | 18:00 |
| LjL | hejsan | 18:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:57 UTC: (news): Carnival's struggle to survive the coronavirus as outbreak wipes out the cruise industry — from r/WorldNews at 15:57: Scotland's chief medical officer Catherine Calderwood spotted flouting coronavirus lockdown rules in visit to second home → https://is.gd/T8jJMp | 18:00 |
| graphine | hoppsan LjL | 18:01 |
| LjL | mandatory masks also in Tuscany, after Lombardy, i read on TV | 18:05 |
| LjL | (despite they fact they're still all sold out) | 18:05 |
| berndj | LjL, DIY masks ok? | 18:06 |
| LjL | berndj, in Lombardy yes, scarves too (which are sold out on Amazon) | 18:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +7479 cases (now 1245137), +598 deaths (now 67877), +848 recoveries (now 256467) since 23 minutes ago — Italy: +4316 cases (now 128948), +525 deaths (now 15887), +819 recoveries (now 21815) since an hour ago — US: +1658 cases (now 322995) since 48 minutes ago | 18:07 |
| LjL | don't know about Tuscany or Veneto, but in Veneto they're supposedly sending 3 masks to each household | 18:07 |
| LjL | meh | 18:07 |
| LjL | why do i even sit here waiting to transcribe the press conference when the data actually come before the press conference does | 18:07 |
| LjL | also on TV now: "Brescia and Bergamo have flattened, but Milan worries" | 18:08 |
| MacGeek | today's data hasn't been published yet | 18:10 |
| MacGeek | on the official github | 18:10 |
| LjL | Italy's daily Civil Protection press conference is starting now at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69C3v5CHXnI and I will translate at least the salient parts as usual. | 18:10 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Good evening. Thanks to Prof. Brusaferro who is with me today. | 18:11 |
| LjL | Two positive things today: less hospitalizations, and less ICU. | 18:11 |
| LjL | 91496(?) total +2872 | 18:11 |
| LjL | 3977 are in ICU, which is -17 compared to yesterday | 18:11 |
| LjL | 28949 are hospitalized with symptoms, -61 | 18:11 |
| LjL | Most of the positive patients, 58320, are at home in self-isolation. | 18:12 |
| LjL | We register +525 deaths, which is the lowest number since March 19. | 18:12 |
| LjL | The total recoveries are 21815, +819 from yesterday. | 18:12 |
| LjL | The "cross" system has transferred 116 patients from Lombardy, 76 of which COVID-19 patients, 40 regular patients. | 18:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:10 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Aggiornamento numero di contagi in Italia 5 Aprile — from r/WorldNews at 16:10: China should be sued for $6.5 trillion for coronavirus damages says top UK think tank → https://is.gd/UNZSam | 18:13 |
| LjL | We are no longer transferring people from Lombardy to hospitals elsewhere starting today, because the situation is such that there is no longer this need. "Cross" remains active and can start again in case it's needed. | 18:13 |
| LjL | We have 15550 volunteers as of today. | 18:13 |
| LjL | Another good bit of news is that the Rome hospital Spallanzani has more patients released than inbound. | 18:14 |
| LjL | I'd like to conclude that while I've given some good news today, they must not make us lower our attention: staying at home is fundamental. | 18:14 |
| LjL | I'll now ask Prof. Brusaferro to speak. | 18:14 |
| LjL | (Brusaferro) My first comment is on the evidence that the curve has reached its plateau and is starting to go down, and fortunately, the deaths curve is doing the same, which is extremely important, but as we know, these are trends that reflect events from weeks ago. | 18:15 |
| LjL | Another thing is that these positive data points must be conquered day after day. We also must start thinking of a "phase 2", as our PM called it, which can be done if the data we have today are confirmed: we must reflect on how to keep infection rates low, because that will be the only thing determining whether we can change the measures that limit our lives, while allowing R0 to remain below 1. | 18:16 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Questions now. | 18:16 |
| LjL | Q: Lombardy ordered yesterday to wear masks when going out. Today the Mayor of Milan said he'll respect this, but he feels confused by Dr Borrelli's words, since you said yesterday that you won't wear a mask because you just respect social distancing. I think many people are disoriented. | 18:17 |
| LjL | A: I'm sorry to have been misunderstood again. I said that I don't wear a mask because in the environments I find myself in, it is possible to respect social distancing. Anyway I must say that Lombardy's ordnance must be respected, because it's law. It's fundamental to wear a mask in places like the metro, or public transport, where respecting distances is not possible. Masks are important as they lower the risk of contagion. | 18:18 |
| LjL | As you can see I don't wear a mask here, but it's for a simple reason: I don't find myself in places where I'm exposed to risk. | 18:18 |
| pwr22 | Meanwhile in the UK: https://www.facebook.com/100963744664905/posts/212687430159202/?sfnsn=scwspmo&extid=p8GJ3aI4XBT9WrWu&d=n&vh=e | 18:18 |
| LjL | Q: And Prof. Brusaferro, about using scarves as masks...? | 18:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:16 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: calano per la prima volta i ricoverati con sintomi — from r/WorldNews at 16:16: China should be sued for $6.5 trillion for coronavirus damages says top UK think tank → https://is.gd/drf0DT | 18:19 |
| LjL | A: We must remind that from a scientific point of view, measures to contrast this infection involve physical distancing, and washing of hands, as we must not forget that indirect contact through the hands is a very important element, and washing your hands or using sanitizer is just as important as masks. | 18:19 |
| LjL | Protecting the airways has a twofold motivation: if we are positive we can release virus-containing droplets to the environment, and we may be positive without knowing; the other thing of course is being protected from other people. | 18:20 |
| LjL | I think the really important point is about closed places. If it's difficult to keep distances there, protecting the airways is important. | 18:20 |
| LjL | Surgical masks have specific characteristics, with filtering that is appropriate in hospitals. For the citizens, there will be masks with lower protection, because they are less at risk, so under the umbrella term "surgical masks" there are three types at least: there are also "art. 16 masks" under the new law, which have no protection but just act as a simple barrier. | 18:21 |
| LjL | (?) | 18:21 |
| LjL | Q: About Lombardy's previous ordnance and announcement [...] masks in the streets, are you thinking about how to manage distribution of masks in those territories where they are made mandatory? There will be more need for the population to obtain them, since they will be compulsory. | 18:22 |
| LjL | A: I will give a partial answer and then let Prof. Brusaferro complete it. As he said, we have started a florishing activity of local production of masks for use by the population, for which there are no particular formalities for authorizing them, as he can explain now. I think it will be possible to provide those to everyone. | 18:23 |
| LjL | (Brusaferro) Yes, I will complete what I said in my previous answer: we have three types of masks today: those with filtering fronts, which are a prerogative of healthcare workers; then there are surgical masks which are in turn divided into three categories, two of which are again for healthcare workers; but then "type 1" masks are for the population. Then there's a third type dubbed as "art. 16" which are simply not regulated, and must not respect any | 18:24 |
| LjL | specific standards, and the population may use them for protecting airways. | 18:24 |
| LjL | For FFP2 and FFP3, INAIL must manage and authorize the production of these. As to surgical masks, the ISS must give an evaluation and support companies that are converting to their production. The last type requires no particular authorization by any entity. | 18:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:18 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Nonostante le 'buone' notizie, è essenziale che tutti rimangono ancora a casa e rispettano il lockdown per contenere il virus. — from r/WorldNews at 16:18: China should be sued for $6.5 trillion for coronavirus damages says top UK think tank → https://is.gd/HOf0rs | 18:25 |
| LjL | As to actual production, as Prof. Locatelli said yesterday, we have had many companies who requested to be allowed to convert to production of surgical, I repeat surgical, masks... about 80 of them have been authorized to "produce", which means in their self-certification they claim they respect the required parameters. | 18:25 |
| LjL | Authorization to produce means they can start productive activities and stock them up, while at the same time they are producing experimental evidence to actually show the international requirements are respected. | 18:26 |
| LjL | As these are provided, the institute immediately authorized commercialization. | 18:26 |
| LjL | But this route is about surgical masks, which are medical devices of a specific type. | 18:26 |
| Shukara | The best is to learn how to make one yourself... we are not incapable we are made incapable. | 18:26 |
| LjL | Q: We see today that the number of deaths is lowering a fair bit. Should we expect a decrease in the coming week, since we're talking about deaths due to previous weeks? | 18:27 |
| LjL | A: You caught the dynamics of this curve very well. We have indications on new cases, hospitalizations, and fatalities every day. New cases are the first indication, which refers to just a few days ago, a week ago... hospitalizations and deaths lag by some 15 days. | 18:28 |
| LjL | We have indications that the number of new cases is decreasing, and we expect that consequently, ICU admissions and deaths will also decrease. The data are consistent with that. This is an extremely important and positive fact. | 18:28 |
| LjL | We expect the trend to continue in the coming days. | 18:28 |
| Shukara | LjL: I gave this advice to myself: take one day at a time as the unfolding future is truly unknown this time. | 18:28 |
| LjL | Q: A small thing that GPs asked to clarify: those 620k masks that are to be distributed, will they only be given to GPs, and not to all doctors, who may not even be working anymore, or working in private clinics? And then I'd like to ask Prof. Brusaferro about experimentation on "quick tests", they should be validated within a week, and rumors are that these tests have shown to be even better than regular tests. Where are we on that? Also on data just | 18:30 |
| LjL | released, the region of Lombardy reports data that are very different from the central ones: they say they have obtained many more PPEs than the Civil Protection has, and they say the CP has provided a very different number from what is stated on their website. | 18:30 |
| LjL | A: I will start with the first piece of data: providing masks for general practitioners, it's obvious those masks should only be given to doctors actually practicing. As to the ADA system, I don't have the data on what the CP distributed today, but the data the Commissioner put into the website is what we communicate to the regions. We will verify, I don't have the file with me. | 18:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:25 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy's death toll rise is slowest in 2 weeks, Cuomo sees slight plateauing — from r/WorldNews at 16:25: China should be sued for $6.5 trillion for coronavirus damages says top UK think tank → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 18:31 |
| LjL | (Brusaferro) Diagnostics is a recurring theme today, both as to PCR tests and serology. As you noted, it's under trial, and there's something I want to remark: there are many groups in Italy that are testing and validating both molecular tests and serology ones. But we cannot comment now; we have to reach a certain significance level, and expressing an evaluation before would be inappropriate. | 18:32 |
| LjL | Q: But do you have a time horizon...? | 18:32 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: any links to those special masks? | 18:33 |
| LjL | A: Well, what I wish is that within a week... operators in all of Italy are finalizing interesting mechanisms to make testing these things faster, and obviate to the lack of certain reagents, boosting productivity. Researchers have an important role: this common effort can allow us to get past a critical moment, since the theme of diagnostics is extremely important, as it will influence the policies on using these tests too. | 18:33 |
| LjL | IndoAnon, first time I hear about them | 18:33 |
| LjL | Q: We know the real contagion numbers may be much higher than what appears from the tests. The Imperial College study talks about possibly 3 million italians infected, Prof. Ricciardi talked about 20% potentially being already infected... I know it's difficult, but can you give us something approaching real data? And how will this influence the decrease that you said would be slow? | 18:34 |
| LjL | A: What we are organizing now is a national-scale prevalence study, which aims to find how many people have developed an immune reaction to this. We have estimates that are very different from one another: 5%, 10%, even more. As to the significance of that number, it's very critical: having 1 Italian out of 10, or 1 out of 20, having developed immune response, means that most of the population is still susceptible, in concrete terms, which means they can | 18:36 |
| LjL | potentially become positive. So, aside from the exact numeric value, which we are very interested to know as researchers, the practical significance is that we must use the uttermost care and social distancing... still... because in any case, even if it were 90%, 85% or so who are still susceptible, it's still a very large number, and the curve can spike again if we aren't careful. | 18:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Lombardia, Italy: +1337 cases (now 50455), +249 deaths (now 8905), +184 recoveries (now 13426) since a day ago — World: +914 cases (now 1246051), +60 deaths (now 67937) since 33 minutes ago — Piemonte, Italy: +653 cases (now 12362), +129 recoveries (now 1017) since a day ago | 18:37 |
| LjL | Q: I'd like to ask Prof. Brusaferro about drug tests. We have heard of many studies, is there some that is giving the best results? Another thing is, are you afraid there will be more people leaving home for Easter? Do you think police checks should be increased? | 18:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:32 UTC: /u/The_Fadge: CDC - Medicina — from r/WorldNews at 16:32: China should be sued for $6.5 trillion for coronavirus damages says top UK think tank → https://is.gd/qlWuYF | 18:38 |
| LjL | A: As Prof. Locatelli said yesterday, AIFA did a fantastic job, which is available transparently on their websites. I understand the stress from waiting, but we do need a sufficiently large sample to give these results significance. We must reach a certain goal in terms of test subjects, a goal set by AIFA or by the researchers themselves. Many of the studies proposed that pass the plausibility evaluations are immediately listed. | 18:38 |
| LjL | I believe as soon as AIFA reaches the minimum threshold to say that a given treatment can significantly improve conditions, they will communicate it immediately. But we need patients, there are times and numbers to be reached. | 18:39 |
| LjL | I cannot give you more information than what we already know about the number of studies in progress, under evaluation, and the rejected ones. | 18:39 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) About the danger that people will pay less attention to behaviors, we already said it, and in this circumstance, given your question, I want to thank the police force who perform checks across the country every day, as they constitute a deterrent, but the most important thing is us behaving responsibly. We trust in our population acting consistently with what is requested. | 18:40 |
| LjL | If there are no further questions, we're ending this now. Good evening and have a good Sunday. | 18:40 |
| LjL | --- end | 18:40 |
| LjL | well... i am not super-happy with the idea that masks for the "population" will be made with NO standards at all | 18:41 |
| LjL | "oh you're a company that says you can do masks? Hell, you go you!" | 18:41 |
| LjL | also this insistence that we must behave responsibly... they've said it for weeks, every time, MANY times each time, and people are still defying the lockdowns. can we seriously not get MORE police doing checks? the army can operate legally inside the country in Italy... if police aren't enough, get more people ffs | 18:42 |
| genera | what about churches and events? | 18:43 |
| blkshp | Can the US forces operate within the US if there's a state of national emergency? | 18:44 |
| blkshp | (i believe they cannot usually) | 18:45 |
| LjL | genera, churches are closed, celebrations are often done using Skype or similar | 18:46 |
| LjL | blkshp, right, that's why i specified that they can in Italy, because many of the people here are from the US and likely expect they cannot | 18:46 |
| LjL | they already could, but under the emergency law it has been explicitly stated that they can be co-opted as needed to ensure respect of the lockdowns | 18:47 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: ok | 18:47 |
| blkshp | Thanks, just clarifying ta | 18:47 |
| LjL | i don't know under what conditions the army can operate within the US | 18:47 |
| LjL | i imagine it equates to declaring martial law | 18:47 |
| LjL | Today's notes for the Civil Protection press conference in Italy: https://dpaste.org/opJG | 18:47 |
| aldwich | LJL, thanks for the transcription. so, it's the second day of R0 < 1, right? No actual value of R0 was given, just "below 1", right? | 18:48 |
| LjL | adebali[m], personally i wouldn't say it's below 1. that seems optimistic. the growth in new cases has been roughly linear for several days, which would reflect an R0 around 1 | 18:49 |
| LjL | deaths went down, that's good, but maybe that's more representative of hospitals having less pressure on them, i don't think it says anything about the R0 | 18:50 |
| LjL | and hospitals are definitely feeling less pressure, which shows how even reaching just linearity helps... but at some point if we don't get below linearity, we cannot stay locked down forever | 18:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:44 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: L'intervista di Conte su 'Meet the Press' — from r/WorldNews at 16:44: China should be sued for $6.5 trillion for coronavirus damages says top UK think tank → https://is.gd/ehU31P | 18:50 |
| LjL | i think even Lombardy went slightly down in new cases today though (i need to verify, eyeballing it now) | 18:51 |
| LjL | i'm also listening to the (recorded) Lombardy press conference and they're basically saying, we want everyone to wear masks or any kind of face/nose protection because countries and local governments all over the world are changing their tune on it, so they probably know something, maybe how the WHO itself changed their tune | 18:52 |
| LjL | what a surprise | 18:52 |
| LjL | Milan and Turin are going up but no worse than yesterday | 18:52 |
| LjL | i think it's the first time the number of hospitalizations (not just ICU, which went down yesterday) goes down | 18:53 |
| LjL | yes, Lombardy is going down, +1337 (!) new cases today, vs +1598 yesterday and +1445 the day before | 18:54 |
| genera | that sounds like fluctuation | 18:55 |
| LjL | fewer tests in Italy today, but more tests in Lombardy, with a lower positive rate (16.5% vs 23.4%) | 18:57 |
| LjL | genera, anything's better than steadily going up | 18:57 |
| LjL | worth looking at these too https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronavirus/bollettino/Infografica_5aprile%20ENG.pdf if you want to follow Italy | 18:58 |
| LjL | the median age of cases has slightly gone down | 18:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:55 UTC: (news): Trump says 1,000 military personnel deploying to New York City, warns coming week toughest yet in coronavirus fight — from r/WorldNews at 16:55: China should be sued for $6.5 trillion for coronavirus damages says top UK think tank → https://is.gd/D73DGh | 18:59 |
| LjL | %tr La terapia antibiotica è stata comunemente utilizzata nel corso del ricovero (85% dei casi), meno utilizzata quella antivirale (55%), più raramente la terapia steroidea (33%). Il comune utilizzo di terapia antibiotica può essere spiegato dalla presenza di sovrainfezioni oppure è compatibile con inizio terapia empirica in pazienti con polmonite, in attesa di conferma laboratoristica di COVID-19. | 19:00 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: Antibiotic therapy was commonly used during hospitalization (85% of cases), antiviral therapy less used (55%), and more rarely steroid therapy (33%). The common use of antibiotic therapy can be explained by the presence of superinfections or is compatible with the beginning of empirical therapy in patients with pneumonia, pending laboratory confirmation [... want %more?] | 19:00 |
| LjL | "... Brescia 9340 +160 which is in line with yesterday's +166, Como +65, this was +63 yesterday, Cremona +79... all these data have stabilized. Lodi +17, so that area has very few infections nowadays, Monza and Brianza +111, compared to +161 yesterday. Milan, 11730, +411: now, the data on Milan is the one piece of data that keeps us worried. We have a slide showing the various provinces with a very slow growth... we have Bergamo and Brescia which are both | 19:05 |
| LjL | in a clearly "flattened" phase, which is the most positive data, while Milan keeps having some ups and downs, mostly up, you can see it exactly how it is, and it's concerning. So this means in Milan we haven't been able yet to cause a clear change to the curve, so the effort in Milan must be stronger: we must not go out or only ever go out with protection, either a mask or just anything, a cloth, anything that can act as a barrier, which is better than | 19:05 |
| LjL | nothing. I ask my Milanese friends and fellow citizens to be even more determined in their behavior." | 19:05 |
| LjL | https://youtu.be/lbbmx2P6MHY?t=1365 this bit of the Lombardy news shows the increase in "red code" (meaning "imminent risk of death") ER admissions in Lombardy, compared to the average in past years | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +4401 cases (now 1250452), +158 deaths (now 68095), +357 recoveries (now 256860) since 35 minutes ago — US: +4332 cases (now 327848), +154 deaths (now 9325), +110 recoveries (now 16700) since 35 minutes ago — New Jersey, US: +3381 cases (now 37505), +71 deaths (now 917) since 35 minutes ago | 19:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US bank group warns of 'massive' delays in small-business rescue program — from r/WorldNews at 17:07: Italian PM: ‘All conflicts around the world should stop’ during global pandemic → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 19:11 |
| LjL | i really like how the "anything is better than nothing" line now is being highlighted so much, whereas before, nothing was much better than anything except for FFP2 masks that we weren't supposed to use anyway because they had to be custom-fit for medical personnel only | 19:13 |
| LjL | now, instead if we are to go out at all, just get a fucking piece of paper and cover our mouth and it'll help | 19:13 |
| LjL | how can i not be mad at this? we have thousands of deaths, how many of those would have been avoided if we'd been told to wear "something, anything" on our faces before? | 19:14 |
| BruntLIVE | (((Remaining Republican Governors)))) We CANNOT be seen following orders ofthat Blackie Surgeon General. We will NOT change for racial spite. How dare that Garboon tell us what to do? We are white and know what's best. | 19:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 17:09 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak — from r/WorldNews at 17:09: UK Top Scientists brand 5G linked to Coronavirus claims 'complete rubbish' after mast burnt. Telecoms are vital for NHS to save lives. → https://is.gd/gwN2qY | 19:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3346 cases (now 1253798), +81 deaths (now 68176), +279 recoveries (now 257139) since 20 minutes ago — Turkey: +3135 cases (now 27069), +73 deaths (now 574), +256 recoveries (now 1042) since 20 minutes ago — Louisiana, US: +514 cases (now 13010), +68 deaths (now 477) since 50 minutes ago | 19:24 |
| LjL | i think the best way to dilute dumb racial stuff is not to even give it attention. | 19:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:25 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US bank group warns of 'massive' delays in small-business rescue program — from r/WorldNews at 17:25: UK Top Scientists brand 5G linked to Coronavirus claims 'complete rubbish' after mast burnt. Telecoms are vital for NHS to save lives. → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 19:28 |
| balaa[m] | !risk 34 | 19:33 |
| CovBot | I estimate a 34 year old patient sick with COVID-19 has a 99.8% chance of survival, a 14.1% likelihood of needing to go to hospital, a 3.7% risk of needing intensive care there and a 0.2% chance of death. | 19:33 |
| LjL | yuriwho, dunnp: preprint on infection in animals https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.015347v1 | 19:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 17:30 UTC: Fauci says no evidence anti-malaria drug Trump pushes works against virus: Trump urges Americans to try hydroxychloroquine Jared Kushner and coronavirus: what is Trump son-in-law up to? Coronavirus US live – rolling report All our coronavirus coverage Donald Trump’s top coronavirus adviser has warned again that [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/5kHv5Y | 19:36 |
| nb | LjL, is FFP2 the same as N95? | 19:38 |
| LjL | nb, no, but similar. slightly different requirements. it's basically the European equivalent of the American N95 standard, but it's complicated by the fact there is also FFP3 | 19:44 |
| LjL | FFP1 is a lower standard that is considered inadequate (but at this point i'm pretty sure it's much better than nothing, too) | 19:44 |
| LjL | and then there is KN95 which sounds like N95 but is in fact not certifiable at all in America, it's a similar Chinese standard | 19:44 |
| IndoAnon | lol | 19:46 |
| aldwich | LjL, reg. FFP3, would you know whether these masks can be used more than once? I mean suppose you wear one down to shops just in case. you're in no close proximity to anyone inside you carefully take the mask off, wash your hands etc. could that mask be reused again? | 19:47 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: you would need to disinfect it | 19:48 |
| bin_bash | i recommend the moist heat method | 19:48 |
| LjL | aldwich, in theory it shouldn't, but honestly... yes. there are also various mini-studies trying to determine the best or at least some acceptable ways to disinfect them without undermining their effectiveness | 19:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 17:47 UTC: ljl-covid: Add study about animals and cats in particular — from r/WorldNews at 17:47: Coronavirus: Irish Prime Minister returns to practising medicine to help during crisis → https://is.gd/zAhT5P | 19:49 |
| aldwich | bin_bash: some dettol or antiviral/surface spray? | 19:49 |
| LjL | aldwich, it's important that you don't *touch* the masks, ever, but in particular if you're reusing a mask that may have been contaminated. take it on and off using the elastic bands, don't touch the front | 19:49 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: no | 19:49 |
| aldwich | LjL: i know, that would be totally defeating the purpose. that's whay i mean with being ultra careful. | 19:49 |
| LjL | aldwich, don't use stuff with random ingredients, just use alcohol+water while knowing that it *will* undermine the mask's characteristics to some extent, or else, use heat | 19:49 |
| LjL | aldwich, if you have place for that, just leave the mask in the sun for at least an hour and that should also mostly disinfect it | 19:50 |
| IndoAnon | KN95 reminds me of 'mainland standard' stainless steel 206 | 19:50 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.ajic.2010.07.004 WMH method. | 19:50 |
| aldwich | hey, thanks, that's a great idea. i can't get hold of alcohol to disinfect but it's sunny | 19:50 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: no | 19:51 |
| bin_bash | LjL: no | 19:51 |
| bin_bash | warm heat method | 19:51 |
| bin_bash | just leaving it in the sun doesn't work | 19:51 |
| aldwich | sorry, must have misunderstood. warm heat? how does this work? | 19:52 |
| LjL | warm heat isn't the only method that has been suggested. | 19:52 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: if you need to reuse, follow the WMH method in the sci-hub link. | 19:52 |
| aldwich | bin_bash: just opened it | 19:52 |
| bin_bash | LjL: it's the most effective. UVC is what's needed for sterilization, and it does not come through the atmosphere | 19:53 |
| bin_bash | not to mention that it's not clear that UVC even works | 19:54 |
| mefistofeles | easy, we do it above the atmosphere, duh | 19:54 |
| euod[m] | and UVC is crazy dangerous to work with. | 19:55 |
| euod[m] | I don't like people suggesting it's something consumers should ever come into contact with. | 19:55 |
| bin_bash | agreed. nobody here should be recommending germicidal UVC | 19:55 |
| bin_bash | WHM is the safest and most effective method at home | 19:56 |
| euod[m] | yes, here's a light bulb, if your skin is within a meter, you will smell cooking bacon (that's your skin!). | 19:56 |
| euod[m] | also they're on fucking amazon. | 19:56 |
| LjL | uh i have suggested leaving it in the sun, so i hope you aren't accusing me of recommending things i absolutely haven't... | 19:56 |
| bin_bash | you just said it | 19:56 |
| bin_bash | leaving it in the sun doesn't do shit | 19:56 |
| euod[m] | some of the comments have things like people buying UVC bulbs and then writing reviews on amazon that now their eyes feel itchy. yeah that's because you have burned your retinas. | 19:57 |
| bin_bash | lol | 19:57 |
| bin_bash | euod[m]: reminds me of the idiots who looked straight at non-totality the eclipse | 19:57 |
| euod[m] | oh, trump? | 19:58 |
| bin_bash | him and a bunch fo others | 19:58 |
| LjL | bin_bash, but i have NOT "recommended germicidal UVC" | 19:58 |
| euod[m] | looking at them now, lots of them are fake, which is comforting in a stupid way. people "using uvc" products will think they're safe and they don't need to do anything else though. | 19:58 |
| bin_bash | i think "why do my eyes hurt" was one of the top searches the days after euod[m] | 19:58 |
| LjL | that would be a rather huge misrepresentation of what i've said | 19:58 |
| bin_bash | LjL: i never said you did. i said you suggested leaving it in the sun, which is also a bad idea | 19:58 |
| bin_bash | I said, in general, nobody should be suggesting UVC | 19:58 |
| bin_bash | I never said YOU suggested that | 19:59 |
| LjL | there are degrees of bad ideas | 19:59 |
| bin_bash | the best and safest way is the warm heat metho | 19:59 |
| bin_bash | d | 19:59 |
| euod[m] | I see it around a lot. it's just scary. I have one device with a UVC bulb inside it and the number of interlocks it has to prevent you ever seeing it is crazy. | 19:59 |
| aldwich | bin_bash: not sure I could replicate this warm heat method at home. don't have the equipment for that | 19:59 |
| bin_bash | literally anyone with a lobster pot and an oven can do it | 19:59 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: you need an oven and a big pot | 19:59 |
| bin_bash | that's it | 19:59 |
| euod[m] | food dehydrators are also cheap. | 20:00 |
| bin_bash | euod[m]: needs to be moist heat | 20:00 |
| bin_bash | can't be dry | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | italy, I love you! chocolate manufacturing is system critical <3 | 20:00 |
| euod[m] | bin_bash: hm, the paper I read suggested the virus is stable with low heat and high humidity, and decreases almost exponentially with increased heat. | 20:01 |
| aldwich | ok, so mask inside the big pot with tray of water underneath. heat up to 62C, let me get my head around that | 20:01 |
| euod[m] | bin_bash: but this obviously isn't my area. I can tell you not to use UVC bulbs with confidence though :) | 20:01 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: basically a big lobster stock pot with a shallow strainer | 20:01 |
| bin_bash | sec ill find a pic | 20:01 |
| bin_bash | euod[m]: lol yeah without a doubt, do not use UVC | 20:01 |
| bin_bash | euod[m]: i'm not an expert either, but all the studies and literature ive been reading suggests low moist heat works well (low being like 62C/150F) | 20:02 |
| kPa | Also, with UV theere is a shadow effect with micropores in PPE so that it won't fully penetrate the material | 20:02 |
| euod[m] | UVC bulbs also tend to produce ozone, I couldn't find any writing about the effect of that. | 20:03 |
| euod[m] | if nothing else it'll make the plastics in the mask degrade. | 20:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:00 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US bank group warns of 'massive' delays in small-business rescue program — from r/WorldNews at 18:00: Coronavirus: Irish Prime Minister returns to practising medicine to help during crisis → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 20:03 |
| tinwhiskers | Steaming your mask is bad. If you're using a pot you need a double pot. | 20:03 |
| Atque | Does anyone know a good data service with daily stats for different areas? | 20:04 |
| tinwhiskers | Also 70C is what I've seen recommended. | 20:04 |
| kPa | UVC bulbs definitely produce ozone, and can damage your eyes. in general they should not be used and you should not leave a UVC bulb lying around | 20:04 |
| bin_bash | something like this aldwich https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-20-Quart-Stock-Pot/857842567 | 20:05 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: how do you keep the steam off the mask? | 20:06 |
| aldwich | bin_bash: ok, then the mask on a tray inside bit water and bring to steam (till tender? lol) | 20:06 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: you dont. use a shallow steaming tray | 20:07 |
| m3rlin | steam your mask can reduce filter | 20:07 |
| tinwhiskers | What I'm seeing here is that you have decided you like one method and are pushing it as the best but your method is not good. | 20:07 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: the method is basically warm the pot with water at ~65C for 30 minutes | 20:07 |
| bin_bash | then add the mask and leave for another 30-45 minutes | 20:07 |
| Atque | euod[m]: UVC is highly energetic ultraviolet radiation. It can cause blindness. I do not think it will reliable kill SARS-CoV-2. | 20:07 |
| tinwhiskers | Steam degrades paper fibres | 20:07 |
| kPa | The idea is not to bring your pot up to a full boil and generate copious amounts of steam | 20:07 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: no, it's show (as per the sci-hub link) to be the most effective AND least destructive | 20:07 |
| bin_bash | it's not hot steam | 20:08 |
| tinwhiskers | Link please? | 20:08 |
| bin_bash | the oven is at 65C | 20:08 |
| bin_bash | https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.ajic.2010.07.004 WMH method. | 20:08 |
| euod[m] | Atque: yeah, a nightclub learned that once. they meant buy blacklight FL tubes and bought UVC ones from aliexpress or whereever instead. resulted in a massive number of people being burned. | 20:08 |
| euod[m] | https://mashable.com/2017/10/27/neon-lights-hong-kong-sorayama-hypebeast/ (nsfw) | 20:09 |
| kPa | euod[m]: yeah, and the eye damage is apparently very painful... like someone is clawing constantly at the back of yoru eyes. Definitely do not want | 20:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1370 cases (now 1255168), +105 recoveries (now 257244) since 50 minutes ago — Peru: +535 cases (now 2281) since an hour ago — Louisiana, US: +514 cases (now 13010), +68 deaths (now 477) since an hour ago | 20:09 |
| euod[m] | the blue lights in these photos are all UVC bulbs. | 20:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:05 UTC: New Yorkers stop and give daily thanks and gratitude for coronavirus frontline workers: Between the incessant screams of ambulance sirens rushing new patients to hospitals all day, and the non-stop negative news headlines, there is one moment each day in New York City that breaks up the daily monotony that is the new normal. → https://is.gd/bpuA8N | 20:09 |
| aldwich | bin_bash, LjL: thanks for the pointers. i'll do some further reading on that. have 4 masks = at least 4 weekly shopping trips. | 20:12 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: i'd recommend trying to go as infequently as possible. so if you can afford to stock up for 2 weeks or more, do it. | 20:12 |
| bin_bash | obviously don't hoard food or order more than you can eat before it goes bad | 20:12 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: my quick skim of that paper suggests they didn't look at the effect of the method on the integrity of the mask | 20:15 |
| Atque | euod[m]: Yeah, I think it kills bacteria, fungi and protist pathogens reliably in some cases. I have never heard of it being used to disinfect masks. | 20:15 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: yes they did | 20:16 |
| Atque | euod[m]: It is used in some cases for cutlery, instruments etc. with non-porous materials. | 20:16 |
| aldwich | i am going as little as possible. veg stays only fresh for a week, plus so far everyone is keeping a 2m distance, supermarket has queuing system in place, the risk is moderate. in my area of 100k we have around 140 tested positive, increasing very slowly. don't get me wrong, I am not discounting the risks whatsoever | 20:16 |
| bin_bash | also tinwhiskers https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/decontamination-reuse-respirators.html | 20:16 |
| phantomcircuit | aldwich, virtually all vegetables can be frozen | 20:16 |
| bin_bash | Table 2. Summary of the decontamination method and effect on FFR performance | 20:16 |
| tinwhiskers | Umm, theyreally didn't | 20:17 |
| phantomcircuit | bin_bash, there's very few of the hydrogen peroxide vaporizer machines in the us (and many fewer globally) | 20:17 |
| bin_bash | phantomcircuit: nobody can do h2o2 vaporization at home | 20:18 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: i provided the link i meant to post for the effect from the CDC. see table 2 | 20:18 |
| phantomcircuit | seems to indicate that a food dehydrator is basically perfect for sterilizing n95 masks | 20:19 |
| bin_bash | phantomcircuit: what makes you think that? | 20:20 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Rwanda finds genocide grave that could contain 30,000 bodies (10299 votes) | https://redd.it/fvea32 | 20:20 |
| user | is this a covid shill channel | 20:21 |
| bin_bash | a what | 20:21 |
| bin_bash | shilling for whom? | 20:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:09 UTC: US coronavirus live: New York governor Andrew Cuomo says 'this is war time': Fauci: ‘This is going to be a bad week … just buckle down’ Trump warns of ‘one of toughest weeks’ as deaths pass 8,000 312,085 cases of Covid-19 confirmed in US [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/jeXvTP | 20:22 |
| bin_bash | the branch covidians? the global covid industrial complex? lmfao | 20:22 |
| bin_bash | i, for one, am a shill for the branch covidians /s | 20:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +112 cases (now 1255280), +2300 recoveries (now 259544) since 26 minutes ago — Germany: +2300 recoveries (now 28700) since an hour ago — Peru: +535 cases (now 2281) since an hour ago | 20:24 |
| user | im going out and im not wearing a mask fite me | 20:25 |
| AimHere | We don't need to | 20:26 |
| blkshp | i concur | 20:26 |
| l0ndoner | just wash your hands | 20:26 |
| bin_bash | that's fine with me as long as you dont try to get medical treatment | 20:26 |
| phantomcircuit | bin_bash, they operate at about 60C and circulate air | 20:26 |
| AimHere | If he fancies actually getting the virus, I think I could take him | 20:26 |
| blkshp | bin_bash: what's that mean? | 20:26 |
| bin_bash | phantomcircuit: what are you talking about | 20:26 |
| bin_bash | blkshp: it means that people who willingly flout and ignore safety measures don't deserve to get treatment when they get sick | 20:27 |
| l0ndoner | wear a Tottenham hot spurs shirt and no one will come 2 metres of you | 20:27 |
| user | lol | 20:27 |
| blkshp | e're not flouting nor ignoring saffety measures and it has been stated at the highest level that they are not required. | 20:27 |
| blkshp | unless the infformation has changed in a day. | 20:27 |
| blkshp | I had the day of | 20:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 18:22 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Official Counts Understate the U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll - The New York Times — from r/WorldNews at 18:22: Coronavirus: Irish Prime Minister returns to practising medicine to help during crisis → https://is.gd/k0wqv2 | 20:28 |
| bin_bash | it's been changing for days. as i've said from the beginning wearing a mask is smart and everyone should be doing it. now FINALLY the WHO is doing an about-face and suggesting it, along with the CDC. | 20:28 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: the paper the cdc refers to for the hot moist air method also does not examine the effect on the integrity of that method. You've given me two links that supposedly back up your claim that this is the least harmful method but neither seem to do that. | 20:29 |
| bin_bash | phantomcircuit: sorry you mean the deydrators, right? it may i really don't know wnough about dry heat vs moist heat. | 20:29 |
| l0ndoner | cant get N95 masks for love nor money | 20:29 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: yes it does... it specifically says "Table 2 provides a summary of the decontamination methods evaluated in the referenced literature and the reported effect of each method on FFR performance." | 20:29 |
| bin_bash | and the reported effect of each method on FFR performance. | 20:29 |
| blkshp | well, considering that i am still away from people when outside, cant get masks anywher anyway, the idea that we should not try to get medical treament is an unfortuante opinion | 20:30 |
| tinwhiskers | There is no table 2 | 20:30 |
| bin_bash | blkshp: i'm saying that dude is bein g a purposeful troll, and if he wants to act that way then he should fuck off and die. i didnt think i needed to explain it so bluntly, but here we are. | 20:30 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: yes there is wtf are you talking about | 20:31 |
| blkshp | :D | 20:31 |
| bin_bash | https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/decontamination-reuse-respirators.html | 20:31 |
| bin_bash | >>Table 2 provides a summary of the decontamination methods evaluated in the referenced literature and the reported effect of each method on FFR performance. | 20:31 |
| bin_bash | Table 2. Summary of the decontamination method and effect on FFR performance | 20:31 |
| user | mp need to get all butthurt m8 | 20:31 |
| blkshp | it was the first line i saw, i was unaware of the trollness | 20:31 |
| LjL | aldwich, another thing you may want to consider is wearing some sunglasses or similar, the wider the better. the virus can find a way through the eyes too | 20:31 |
| bin_bash | blkshp: ah well he joined and said "is this a covid shill channel" | 20:31 |
| phantomcircuit | bin_bash, i think the cdc is reporting on moist heat because that's the easier thing to do, hang masks over boiling water | 20:31 |
| blkshp | ah | 20:31 |
| user | its an honest question | 20:32 |
| bin_bash | phantomcircuit: it's referencing studies thta have been done. | 20:32 |
| tinwhiskers | Perhaps it's just my device but that table is empty | 20:32 |
| user | i think i have my answer | 20:32 |
| bin_bash | yeah it ust be your device | 20:32 |
| bin_bash | everything i've opened in shows several tables | 20:32 |
| bin_bash | there's like 4 tables | 20:32 |
| LjL | i see them (from desktop) | 20:33 |
| tinwhiskers | Ah, the site doesn't seem to work on mobile devices | 20:33 |
| bin_bash | hm that sucks, let me test on my hpone | 20:33 |
| IronY | I swear to god I could sleep for days | 20:33 |
| phantomcircuit | bin_bash, "Method 1: 75°C Hot Air (30 mins) for 20 cycles" https://stanfordmedicine.app.box.com/v/covid19-PPE-1-2 | 20:34 |
| LjL | IronY, it would be ideal these days if you could sleep for some months | 20:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Ok, it works fine with "request desktop page". | 20:34 |
| bin_bash | phantomcircuit: nice | 20:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Thanks | 20:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:28 UTC: US coronavirus live: New York governor Andrew Cuomo says 'this is war time': Fauci: ‘This is going to be a bad week … just buckle down’ Trump warns of ‘one of toughest weeks’ as deaths pass 8,000 312,085 cases of Covid-19 confirmed in US [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/jeXvTP | 20:34 |
| LjL | yeah i'm more familiar with phantomcircuit's paper | 20:34 |
| bin_bash | phantomcircuit: that sounds like a potential good solution then | 20:34 |
| LjL | it's probably easier to understand for me | 20:34 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: np, i was worried for a sec lol glad you got it working | 20:34 |
| phantomcircuit | bin_bash, they specifically do not recommend steam because it degrades that static charge of the mesh stuff | 20:34 |
| IronY | LjL: I might be able to do it, I have about 35 years of lost sleep I am making up for | 20:34 |
| phantomcircuit | "Steam treatment causesfiltration efficiency to drop to ~85% after 5 cycles, and ~80% after 10 cycles." | 20:35 |
| bin_bash | phantomcircuit: if you look at the link i posted, it's not talking about steam, it's talking about moist air | 20:35 |
| bin_bash | steam is much too hot | 20:35 |
| LjL | actually, uhm, i think i have a slightly different (still Stanford) paper | 20:35 |
| LjL | maybe a different "version" | 20:35 |
| phantomcircuit | LjL, they released a new version with a bunch of "please dont bake masks in your kitchen" disclaimers | 20:35 |
| LjL | i saw the disclaimers ;( | 20:36 |
| phantomcircuit | it looks almost entirely like CYA | 20:36 |
| LjL | that was part of a bit of an argument i had the other day | 20:36 |
| LjL | because it nullified my argument that you can clean them at home | 20:36 |
| LjL | but it seems obvious to me they added those disclaimers just for their own legal protection | 20:36 |
| phantomcircuit | bin_bash, moist vs dry air would change the amount of time you'd need to "bake" them moist air transfers heat much better | 20:36 |
| kPa | Yeah the idea is NOT to create steam by boiling water. | 20:36 |
| LjL | https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Fstanfordmedicine.box.com%2Fv%2Fcovid19-PPE-1-1 is the one i'm familiar with | 20:37 |
| phantomcircuit | LjL, i suspect they got a nastygram from the cdc or fda | 20:37 |
| bin_bash | phantomcircuit: yes, it's ~1hr total | 20:37 |
| LjL | seems like it's the same paper but v1.2.3 isntead of v.1.3.3 | 20:37 |
| bin_bash | they have to put a disclaimer because people are retarded | 20:37 |
| phantomcircuit | it's kind of incredible to me that they're not using the bunny suit's with a papr and decontamination showers | 20:37 |
| LjL | in 1.2.3 they have a table comparing effectiveness of materials (but without numeric regard to breahtability) on page 4 | 20:37 |
| phantomcircuit | no issue with lack of ppe, only consumable is bleach | 20:38 |
| bin_bash | agreed but i think the supply of that is even lower than the ppe theyre using | 20:38 |
| phantomcircuit | and it obviously works | 20:38 |
| bin_bash | but agreed they should be | 20:38 |
| phantomcircuit | it's fucking insane that they're using n95 masks and disposable gowns | 20:38 |
| LjL | bin_bash, stop using that word like that please, i've basically just said the same thing without needing to throw "retarded" at people | 20:38 |
| bin_bash | no | 20:38 |
| l0ndoner | does a cap full of bleach to 1 litre water work ? | 20:38 |
| phantomcircuit | bin_bash, with the work being done to produce more disposable stuff im SURE they could produce the proper equipment instead | 20:38 |
| bin_bash | they are literally hindered and held back and are incapable of making critical thinking decisions. | 20:38 |
| bin_bash | i dont think the extra verbosity is necessary when a single word will suffice | 20:39 |
| LjL | i don't seem to be seeing anything similar to the table of materials on page 4 of version 1.2.3 in version 1.3.3, although i might be blind | 20:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3626 cases (now 1258906), +99 deaths (now 68309) since 28 minutes ago — Germany: +1090 cases (now 99862) since 28 minutes ago — Canada: +990 cases (now 15416) since 2 hours ago | 20:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:32 UTC: (news): Navy captain fired after writing letter asking for coronavirus help has reportedly tested positive — from r/WorldNews at 18:32: Coronavirus: Irish Prime Minister returns to practising medicine to help during crisis → https://is.gd/ilFq8p | 20:40 |
| phantomcircuit | l0ndoner, the ratio for bleach to water varies widely based on use; anywhere from 1/2 cup per gallon to two teaspoons per gallon | 20:41 |
| phantomcircuit | l0ndoner, i've yet to see any research on the proper ratio for dealing with sars-cov-2 | 20:41 |
| LjL | bin_bash, well they are not "retarded" in a medical sense, and even if they were, that word is consistently considered offensive nowadays, and not used in medicine. there are a host of words you could choose instead. i don't want to be overly PC but why use an inflaming term (repeatedly, i've pretended not to see it before) when it's so easy not to? | 20:41 |
| bin_bash | LjL: "retarded" isn't used in the medical sense anmore, don't be offensive. | 20:41 |
| LjL | i was not offensive, and i specifically said "and not used in medicine" | 20:42 |
| LjL | please spend more time reading what i write, or if you did read and just chose to ignore it in order to be able to respond flippantly, well, don't. | 20:42 |
| l0ndoner | phantomcircuit: we've been putting capful of bleach to litre spray gun not sure on the effectiveness. Only tried when the hoardes bought up all the cleaning isles | 20:43 |
| l0ndoner | in supermarkets | 20:43 |
| phantomcircuit | l0ndoner, that being said it seems like destroying sars-cov-2 is relatively easy so maybe the lower end would do? but don't quite me on that | 20:43 |
| WW[m] | In addition to medical masks, there are still medical sheets. The sheet material protects better, because it is denser and has more layers than ordinary masks. Has anyone already tried to make masks out of them? | 20:45 |
| l0ndoner | will any cloth covering your mouth and nose do if like me you cant get hold of N95 masks? | 20:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:40 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US bank group warns of 'massive' delays in small-business rescue program — from r/WorldNews at 18:40: Coronavirus: Irish Prime Minister returns to practising medicine to help during crisis → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 20:46 |
| berndj | i can't get over how anthony fauci does NOT look like he's 79 | 20:51 |
| aldwich | this article here supports the steam method and also invalidates wipes and alcohol: https://tinyurl.com/uxp7zex | 20:55 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: not steam, be careful with the language. steam is too hot. | 20:56 |
| berndj | l0ndoner, something is better than nothing | 20:58 |
| aldwich | bin_bash: a direct quote: "Our investigation showed that sterilization using 125°C steam for three minutes has an unnoticeable effect on the charge loss on the electret" | 20:58 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: i didn't get that far yet, i guess. i see this: Fig. 2. Efficiencies of uncharged, charged, and after heat treatment at 70℃ for 24 hours. | 20:59 |
| aldwich | however warm the air is, doing this in my oven where i prepare food? the stanford disclaimer has a good point | 20:59 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: well you shouldn't do it while also making food | 21:00 |
| LjL | aldwich, yeah of course a dedicated oven would be better, but i think any oven is a pretty unfriendly environment to most pathogens | 21:00 |
| bin_bash | and you should always preheat your oven anyway to an appropriate temperature before cooking | 21:00 |
| LjL | this article does give several indications on common things you'd do in an oven that you should *avoid* | 21:00 |
| LjL | like having metal anywhere near the mask | 21:00 |
| bin_bash | aldwich: >>Note that it is important to be sure that the inner or the outer veil of the mask is not made of paper-like tissues – paper pulp or nonwovens bond by water soluble binder – which will either dissolve in water resulting in loose fibers in the veil or the loss of its strength after exposing to water. | 21:01 |
| kPa | viruses are not going to survive cooking temperatures at all, i would be more concerned about getting plastics stuck on the inside of the oven | 21:01 |
| LjL | kPa, yes, some of the testing that has been done in one or another of these papers notes that plastic components of some masks (like respirators that have a one-way valve), or parts of the elastic bands, were damaged under some heat treatments | 21:02 |
| LjL | ultimately there are a few different types of masks, and even if you look at N95 only, there are multiple ways to make an N95 mask, and they'll be susceptible to different things differently... | 21:03 |
| LjL | but at least, molten plastic is something you can *see*, as opposed to, say, loss of efficacy caused by loss of ion charge | 21:03 |
| bin_bash | overall though (based on what ive read and linked here and has been corroborated by other links) WHM seems to be the safest and most effective more the largest selection of mask types | 21:04 |
| aldwich | what about time as decontaminant? say, covid can survive on a surface for 72 hrs but the time gap between using the mask is 2 weeks? | 21:06 |
| kPa | yeah, that's why the warm heat method does not suggest putting your oven anywhere near a cooking temperature, and well below boiling | 21:06 |
| kPa | determining loss of efficacy is extremly difficult to test no matter what decontamination process you use | 21:06 |
| WW[m] | in my country the metro station is being treated with hot steam | 21:07 |
| WW[m] | therefore it is most likely working methods like alcohol | 21:08 |
| kPa | WW[m]: steam will inactivate the virus, the problem is doing it to materials that cannot handle it | 21:08 |
| LjL | aldwich, the article you linked covers "time", it basically says, yeah, as far as we know time should work | 21:08 |
| kPa | Steam on tiling, metal handrails, door knobs, etc will work fine | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1688 cases (now 1260594), +135 deaths (now 68444), +386 recoveries (now 259930) since 36 minutes ago — US: +1580 cases (now 330242), +82 deaths (now 9443), +295 recoveries (now 16995) since 36 minutes ago — Michigan, US: +1493 cases (now 15718), +77 deaths (now 617) since 36 minutes ago | 21:09 |
| WW[m] | <kPa "WW: steam will inactivate the vi"> I think masks can be treated with alcohol. | 21:10 |
| LjL | aaaand it starts all over again | 21:10 |
| bin_bash | WW[m]: https://utrf.tennessee.edu/information-faqs-performance-protection-sterilization-of-face-mask-materials/ | 21:11 |
| bin_bash | nope | 21:11 |
| bin_bash | LjL: lol | 21:11 |
| bin_bash | ♫ it's the circle of chattttt ♫ | 21:11 |
| LjL | mhm | 21:11 |
| euod[m] | if you're not going to listen, why not just do what everyone in the US is doing? | 21:11 |
| euod[m] | jesus makes you immune to coronavirus. | 21:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:00 UTC: 'We will meet again': Queen urges Britons to stay strong: In a special broadcast, the monarch said we will overcome the coronavirus crisis if we ‘remain united and resolute’ — from r/WorldNews at 19:00: Coronavirus News Overshadows Africa's Worst Locust Invasion in History → https://is.gd/bWkgPN | 21:11 |
| euod[m] | that's why churches aren't required to lock down. | 21:12 |
| bin_bash | lol euod[m] duh thats why everyone should go to church /s | 21:12 |
| user | euod is right though | 21:12 |
| user | vibrations | 21:12 |
| user | electric charge | 21:12 |
| user | check | 21:12 |
| aradesh | just watched the queen's speech | 21:12 |
| l0ndoner | she aged well? | 21:13 |
| aradesh | she's not looking bad | 21:13 |
| aldwich | LjL: covid can survive on plastic surface up to 9 days according to https://tinyurl.com/rxmno3b , so reusing after 2 weeks should be actually fine then | 21:14 |
| LjL | aldwich: two weeks sound relatively long although N95 masks are very "good" at retaining pathogens | 21:15 |
| LjL | I mean, it's sort of their job, but it has its downsides | 21:15 |
| LjL | But I suspect two weeks would be okay | 21:15 |
| aldwich | LjL: look, the hot air and oven idea, i am more likely to damage it then clean it. i have 4 masks. if i rotate them to use one every 1 week, that should be plenty. i know it's not perfect, it's just for going to the supermarket, i am not a front line nurse heavily exposed. | 21:18 |
| WW[m] | <bin_bash "WW: https://utrf.tennessee.edu/i"> thanks | 21:19 |
| LjL | aldwich: "anything is better than nothing" seems to be the current line even from authorities (despite it having changed drastically since... two days ago?), anyway, so... | 21:20 |
| aldwich | true, hey man, amidst all that, i missed the HRH's speech on the BBC. | 21:22 |
| IronY | Seems I slept through the queens message | 21:27 |
| IronY | what did my main biddy have to say lol | 21:27 |
| AimHere | The headline is "We will succeed against the virus" | 21:28 |
| AimHere | Which, without a concrete failure condition is a bit daft. What determines success or failure? | 21:29 |
| IronY | Well on an individual level, life or death, on a society level, the amount of life and death | 21:30 |
| bin_bash | the queen is just supposed to sa stuff like "keep calm and carry on" and "we will outlast" and whatnot so i guess she did herjob | 21:31 |
| genera | keep calm and carry on is but the third and last escalation | 21:33 |
| MinceR | at least 1 citizen survives == success | 21:33 |
| IronY | success for me is upping my weed tolerance | 21:34 |
| AimHere | MinceR, the nuclear war win condition! | 21:34 |
| IronY | so I can both be high and conscience at the same time | 21:35 |
| l0ndoner | Be Safe don't breathe is the latest advice from my mom | 21:35 |
| MinceR | :> | 21:35 |
| IronY | be a shitty time to need CPR in a public setting | 21:36 |
| MinceR | "just two things of which you must beware: / don't drink the water and don't breathe the air" | 21:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 19:31 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Decreto liquidità, il ministro Patuanelli: "Prestiti per le imprese attivi in qualche giorno" - la Repubblica — from r/WorldNews at 19:31: Coronavirus News Overshadows Africa's Worst Locust Invasion in History → https://is.gd/NOHBm7 | 21:37 |
| IronY | ^ ahh yes, the pestilence we keep forgetting about due to the plagues | 21:37 |
| IndoAnon | lel, i don't experience noticeable earthquake, and i'm 3k miles away | 21:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1317 cases (now 1261911), +102 recoveries (now 260032) since 35 minutes ago — US: +1043 cases (now 331285), +96 recoveries (now 17091) since 35 minutes ago — Canada: +999 cases (now 15425) since 3 hours ago | 21:39 |
| ubLIX | nice tweak, tinwhiskers | 21:40 |
| tinwhiskers | blame LjL | 21:41 |
| ubLIX | for requesting or implementing? | 21:41 |
| tinwhiskers | for requesting | 21:41 |
| ubLIX | nice requesting, LjL | 21:41 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 21:42 |
| BruntLIVE | The Drug Leronlilmab from CytoDyn is he cure to CoronaVirus | 21:44 |
| tinwhiskers | *The drug Leronlimab is one of several possible treatments that are being evaluated | 21:45 |
| IronY | I have decided to wear socks today | 21:46 |
| l0ndoner | I have decided to get up and go for a yomp down to my kitchen should take me all of 2 seconds | 21:47 |
| IronY | be safe! | 21:47 |
| l0ndoner | serious question. Without lockdown how bad would it get? 60% population? | 21:48 |
| IronY | no | 21:48 |
| IronY | wait | 21:48 |
| IronY | infected or dead | 21:48 |
| l0ndoner | death toll would be catosrophic? | 21:49 |
| IronY | death toll would be 1% more then likely | 21:49 |
| IronY | 7 million? | 21:49 |
| l0ndoner | ok so 7billion | 21:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US bank group warns of 'massive' delays in small-business rescue program — from r/WorldNews at 19:41: Ireland's PM returns to medical practice to help in coronavirus crisis → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 21:49 |
| l0ndoner | 1% of? | 21:49 |
| IronY | 1% of 7 billion | 21:50 |
| IronY | if you factor in births, we could even come out of it with more humans... | 21:50 |
| IronY | age demographics of the world would shift a bit | 21:50 |
| l0ndoner | thats not even anywhere close to spanish flu pandemic | 21:51 |
| IronY | h1n1 is more deadling than covid19 | 21:51 |
| AimHere | Maybe more deading, but not more spreading | 21:51 |
| IronY | those two things are mutually exclusive | 21:51 |
| IronY | if you kill the host to fast, u spread less | 21:52 |
| AimHere | Sure, but Covid-19 seems to have hit a sweet spot | 21:52 |
| IronY | AimHere: not to mention the prime target for deaths due to h1n1 was 20 to 40 | 21:52 |
| BruntLIVE | The cure in the US will come from where it started? Washington State | 21:52 |
| IronY | AimHere: it is not sweet spot it is a corona virus | 21:52 |
| IronY | like all the other corona viruses | 21:52 |
| IronY | this one is new | 21:52 |
| IronY | it is doing an initial filter | 21:52 |
| l0ndoner | 1% of 7billion is 70m ? | 21:52 |
| AimHere | The other corona viruses didn't hit the same sweet spot | 21:53 |
| IronY | AimHere: yes they did | 21:53 |
| IronY | because there literally endemic :P | 21:53 |
| AimHere | IronY, no they didn't. If they did they'd have a million casualties rather than less than 10k | 21:53 |
| IronY | AimHere: Yes, yes they did | 21:53 |
| AimHere | Okay less than 20k | 21:53 |
| IronY | where is ur imaginary 10k number coming from | 21:53 |
| AimHere | Death toll from H1N1 was 18k | 21:53 |
| l0ndoner | did China give truthful covid figures? | 21:53 |
| IronY | h1n1 is not a corona virus | 21:54 |
| AimHere | Which coronavirus has a death toll of more than 20k? | 21:54 |
| IronY | I assure you more then 10k people in antiquity died of a corona virus | 21:54 |
| AimHere | Killing people in antiquity is easymode | 21:54 |
| IronY | I am not going to argue an entire human history of viruses, this is a virus, this is a new virus, it followings the rules of viruses, all viruses were new at some point, some coming before the internet and our ability to measure germs | 21:54 |
| IronY | there is nothing out of the ordinary here, ur just alive to see this one popup | 21:55 |
| IronY | jesus we killed an entire native population with smallpox blankets | 21:55 |
| AimHere | Smallpox isn't coronavirus | 21:55 |
| IronY | AimHere: Clearly, smallpox is expontentially MORE dead than a coronavirus | 21:55 |
| IronY | deadly* | 21:56 |
| AimHere | Wait, but didn't you say deadliness was mutually exclusive with spreadiness? | 21:56 |
| l0ndoner | smallpox is eradicated though | 21:56 |
| IronY | AimHere: I get u want this to feel special to justify the measures we are taking, it is not special, we are just trying to prevent a lot of people dying all at once, hence the filter, this has happend before, ths will happen again | 21:56 |
| AimHere | IronY, a pandemic on this scale hasn't happened in a hundred years | 21:56 |
| IronY | umm | 21:57 |
| l0ndoner | what happened 1918? | 21:57 |
| l0ndoner | spanish flu? | 21:57 |
| IronY | h1n1 is still not over | 21:57 |
| IronY | (spanish flu) | 21:57 |
| AimHere | l0ndoner, that was over 100 years ago | 21:57 |
| IronY | hiv/aids was our last pandemic btw | 21:57 |
| IronY | not spanish flu | 21:58 |
| AimHere | Right, but that was one that wasn't super-deadly | 21:58 |
| AimHere | I mean, it took years to kill most of it's victims | 21:58 |
| IronY | There were about 770,000 deaths from AIDS in 2018. | 21:58 |
| IronY | stop dude | 21:58 |
| IronY | just stop | 21:58 |
| IronY | lol | 21:58 |
| l0ndoner | wasn't sars an epidemic? | 21:59 |
| IronY | l0ndoner: kinda, the WHO changed the definition of epidemic not to long ago | 21:59 |
| python476 | is pedantism an epidemic ? | 21:59 |
| IronY | "The estimated 770 000 [570 000−1 100 000] people dying from HIV globally i" | 21:59 |
| IronY | https://www.who.int/gho/hiv/epidemic_status/deaths_text/en/ | 22:00 |
| pwr22 | Coronavirus has me cutting my own hair 😭 | 22:00 |
| pwr22 | Improvising with something clearly not cut out for this | 22:00 |
| IronY | pwr22: gotta look good for the pets? | 22:00 |
| pwr22 | The trimmer on my shaver | 22:00 |
| pwr22 | It was getting too long | 22:01 |
| l0ndoner | Isis have told all fighters and silent cells not totravel to europe o the irony | 22:01 |
| IronY | oh yeah | 22:01 |
| IronY | anyways, tldr, this pandemic is different in: Our reaction to it, the fact we are instantly connected to discuss it in real time and go over our numbers keepng track of it while consuming our news headlines, if covid19 was covid1985, people would of died, we would read about it papers occasionally, the world would of continued on, suffering the losses of the initial infected who do not make the filters | 22:03 |
| IronY | cut, it would be endemic, we would continue on | 22:03 |
| IronY | Lol we dd not even stop a world war during the spanish flu ffs | 22:04 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, nice we have a hurricane bearing down on us for Thursday. That'll distract people for a while. | 22:05 |
| python476 | pwr22: joke of the day "in a few days there will be no more blondes" | 22:05 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: free city cleaning! | 22:05 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 22:05 |
| Spec | IronY: yeah but spanish flu was accompanied with 50 million deaths, yeah? | 22:05 |
| IronY | Spec: The numbers are hard to actually come up with considering their was also a war but it is argued it killed more people then both wars combined | 22:05 |
| IronY | Spec: no one was in irc stressing out about it frantically coding bots though, they went on with their lives, if they caught it, they normally died, if they didnt, it was almost business as usual | 22:06 |
| Spec | IronY: yeah war stats are probably never gonna be so reliable, eh | 22:08 |
| IronY | "The Lancet, estimated that the global incidence of HIV infection peaked in 1997 at 3.3 million per year." | 22:08 |
| IronY | 3.3 million a year at its peak, down to 770 thousand-1 million a year in modern times | 22:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:00 UTC: US coronavirus live: New York governor Andrew Cuomo says 'this is war time': Fauci: ‘This is going to be a bad week … just buckle down’ Trump warns of ‘one of toughest weeks’ as deaths pass 8,000 312,085 cases of Covid-19 confirmed in US [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/jeXvTP | 22:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1225 cases (now 1263136), +306 recoveries (now 260338) since 35 minutes ago — Canada: +999 cases (now 15425), +244 recoveries (now 2847) since 3 hours ago — US: +998 cases (now 332283) since 35 minutes ago | 22:09 |
| user | mainstream media is a tool of mass manipulation and brainwashing, proven liars, i don't know why people take their word for anything | 22:10 |
| user | you might have better results just jumping off a bridge | 22:11 |
| IronY | People got real dumb in the last few decades | 22:11 |
| IronY | we used to accept the fact there was a chance we could die | 22:11 |
| IronY | now we flip out at a 1% chance | 22:11 |
| IronY | meanwhile people jump out of air planes for fun | 22:11 |
| IndoAnon | IronY: remember the ultra faulty test kit? | 22:12 |
| IronY | Ur staying inside to save ur grandparents / some already sick people / and some statistical outliers of young people | 22:12 |
| user | like i'm supposed to put my life on hold because some 80yr old is going to die | 22:12 |
| user | derp | 22:12 |
| user | how stupid can this get | 22:12 |
| IronY | Oh people have given up on objective common sense at this point | 22:13 |
| IronY | someone pasted the 'baby died of covid19' link here yesterday | 22:13 |
| IndoAnon | probably one of the reason why wuhan cremated 8.88...% of their population | 22:13 |
| IronY | they must not of even read the artcile | 22:13 |
| IronY | IndoAnon: we are speaking actual science here not speculation | 22:13 |
| user | i know someone who's baby was diagnosed with covid over the phone | 22:13 |
| user | no joke | 22:13 |
| user | they just put it in the numbers that easy | 22:13 |
| IronY | user: I am not saying babys cannot get covid, the baby died because it had an intesential blockage, it was in the hospital 4 weeks prior to covid, it caught covid but was scheduled to not make it well before | 22:14 |
| IndoAnon | i still remember dude who need to be tested 4 times before getting positive on sars-2 | 22:14 |
| IronY | tldr, it was counted as a 'covid death' | 22:14 |
| IronY | you could go into a hospital having a heart attack, contract u some covid on the way there, die of said heart attack, ur counted as a covid death, | 22:14 |
| LjL | IndoAnon: 3k miles? You'd expect to feel an earthquake from 3k miles away? O.o maybe if an asteroid collides with us | 22:15 |
| IndoAnon | we could feel 5 richter scale from 100-200km | 22:16 |
| euod[m] | LjL: if yellowstone pops we'll feel it world over :) | 22:16 |
| bin_bash | my insurance will cover me though | 22:16 |
| bin_bash | so it's cool | 22:16 |
| IndoAnon | i still remember aceh's earthquakes | 22:16 |
| user | has anyone listened to dr shiva's perspective? | 22:16 |
| graphine | back | 22:16 |
| graphine | hej all | 22:16 |
| squidgy | hi bin_bash | 22:17 |
| bin_bash | hi squidgy | 22:17 |
| IndoAnon | hello graphine | 22:17 |
| LjL | 100-200km sure, I also felt quakes from that distance, that's a far cry from 3k mile though | 22:17 |
| graphine | hej IndoAnon | 22:17 |
| graphine | need to go and make pasta for mom :-) | 22:17 |
| graphine | lol | 22:17 |
| IronY | I am about to make the most fucked up claim u have heard on IRC: My grandma/nanny is probably 99.99% going to pass away of covid19 | 22:18 |
| IronY | My grandma has been in a home for the last year, she has late stage alzheimers, she does not know who she is 99.9% of the time, she often poops herself | 22:18 |
| IronY | my grandma said while she was healthy she never wanted to live like that | 22:18 |
| user | im sorry to hear that IronY | 22:19 |
| IronY | I am not even sure how to feel about it, is it sad that my grandma is probably going to pass, fuck yeah | 22:19 |
| IronY | but is it sad my grandma would of probably lived 5 years of hell | 22:19 |
| stinkpot | halo pak IndoAnon | 22:19 |
| IronY | fuck yes | 22:19 |
| aradesh | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52177125 | 22:19 |
| aradesh | boris johnson taken to hospital | 22:19 |
| IndoAnon | stinkpot: halo gan | 22:19 |
| user | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BiM1YYIPCo <---Dr Shiva | 22:19 |
| stinkpot | apakah kamu di lockdown sekarang IndoAnon ? | 22:20 |
| IronY | I watched all the videos of people going to their local hospitals | 22:20 |
| user | dude has 4 degrees from MIT hes not a scrub | 22:20 |
| user | worth a listen | 22:21 |
| IronY | I took it with a grain of salt, but like, 50 different people, 50 different empty hospitals, 50 different news reports that show those same hospitals at max capacity just the night before | 22:21 |
| IndoAnon | Tidak, stinkpot . Tetapi, mall kemungkinan akan kembali dibuka besok hari. | 22:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:17 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US bank group warns of 'massive' delays in small-business rescue program — from r/WorldNews at 20:17: UK's coronavirus testing effort hampered by kits contaminated with Covid-19 → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 22:21 |
| stinkpot | that's weird IndoAnon | 22:22 |
| stinkpot | they shoud keep the malls closed | 22:22 |
| stinkpot | should* | 22:22 |
| user | if we can have vaccines for covid then there is no reason there shouldn't be a vaccine for influenza | 22:22 |
| user | there is a reason we don't | 22:23 |
| IndoAnon | dunno dude... our country is weird | 22:23 |
| user | they don't work | 22:23 |
| stinkpot | i see | 22:23 |
| bin_bash | user: gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8 | 22:23 |
| AimHere | user, we do have vaccines for influenza. We don't have a vaccine for covid | 22:24 |
| user | w8 don't h8 i have more for your pl8 its f8 | 22:24 |
| stinkpot | i think he means a better vaccine | 22:24 |
| AimHere | The trouble with flu is that it mutates so much you need revaccination every year | 22:24 |
| code-glitch | user : Covid is a Corona virtus - not Influenza Virus | 22:24 |
| IndoAnon | however, 'work from home' scheme works great | 22:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1708 cases (now 332993) since 50 minutes ago — Canada: +999 cases (now 15425), +244 recoveries (now 2847) since 3 hours ago — Illinois, US: +899 cases (now 11256) since an hour ago | 22:24 |
| user | yea vaccines for influeza don't work | 22:24 |
| Toadisattva | how's that SARS vaccine they been working on since 2003 coming | 22:24 |
| code-glitch | user : yes they do | 22:25 |
| user | vaccines for viruses don't work lol | 22:25 |
| AimHere | They work, They're just far from perfect | 22:25 |
| IronY | we have a guess vaccine for influenza based on predicted strains | 22:25 |
| user | no they don't lol | 22:25 |
| code-glitch | user : oh dear | 22:25 |
| user | propaganda | 22:25 |
| IronY | it is often the wrong strain | 22:25 |
| AimHere | An antivaxxer, huh | 22:25 |
| stinkpot | isn't a drug better than a vaccine? | 22:25 |
| code-glitch | I hate antivaxxers | 22:25 |
| code-glitch | They are like flat-Earthers | 22:25 |
| AimHere | stinkpot, why would it be? | 22:25 |
| user | thats nice sweetie | 22:25 |
| stinkpot | a drug in theory would work year after year | 22:25 |
| IndoAnon | we're having greatest weather... really low polution... just 40something ppm (pm2.5) | 22:25 |
| user | don't shill and talk shit | 22:25 |
| user | nobody cares your opinion of me | 22:26 |
| user | FACT | 22:26 |
| IronY | AimHere: here is a fun challenge for u, when ur cherry picking ur google searches, use the filter tools to filter out the last 4 months | 22:26 |
| bin_bash | lmao | 22:27 |
| LjL | what is going on | 22:27 |
| bin_bash | people are feeding the troll and it's entertaining. | 22:27 |
| aradesh | LjL: did you appear, apparently boris johnson's been taken to hospital? | 22:28 |
| aradesh | hear* | 22:28 |
| user | trolls don't provide links to credible MIT doctors with 4 degrees | 22:29 |
| LjL | aradesh, yes i stole your link and reposted to like, uhm, well, two other places | 22:29 |
| aradesh | ah ok | 22:29 |
| user | you can watch it and argue with the doctor or call me names | 22:29 |
| aradesh | i thought maybe it got lost in the conversation | 22:29 |
| user | choice is yours | 22:29 |
| LjL | user, does that doctor claim we don't have vaccines against viruses? | 22:29 |
| user | let the people decide for themselves who is the troll | 22:29 |
| IronY | I mean to be fair | 22:29 |
| IronY | I am not even sure who the troll is in this situation | 22:29 |
| aradesh | i've seen a lot of funny coronavirus conspircy theories over the last few weeks | 22:29 |
| dolby99 | aradesh: one that points to 5G as the cause | 22:30 |
| aradesh | yeah that's one such theory | 22:31 |
| aradesh | other conspiracy theory is that "it's made up" | 22:31 |
| bin_bash | let's not cheapen the word "theory" with that tbh | 22:31 |
| bin_bash | let's just call them what they are - crackpot ideas | 22:31 |
| IronY | There are 100% covid conspiracy theories, but there is 100% factual things that are sometimes lumped in | 22:31 |
| dolby99 | Oh yea something about a biochemical war | 22:31 |
| IronY | we wont know for awhile | 22:31 |
| IronY | enjoy the ride | 22:31 |
| aradesh | i've never researched 5G, but it should be fairly straight forward to look at the wave lengths involved, and the power involved, and work out if is enough to get anywhere near to effecting molecules in your body | 22:32 |
| IndoAnon | the ride never ends | 22:32 |
| IronY | 5g = 100% conspiracy theory, is 5g unhealth, oh fuck yeah, did it cause a global pandemic, no, probably not | 22:32 |
| aradesh | i.e., is it like being in a MRI scanner, which takes huge power, or is it like, orders of magnitude less ? | 22:32 |
| dolby99 | 5G can hardly go through buildings | 22:32 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Domestic abuse cases soar amid coronavirus lockdown, with charities no longer being able to "effectively support" victims (10057 votes) | https://redd.it/fveeb6 | 22:32 |
| dolby99 | Just hate for china basically | 22:33 |
| aradesh | if information going through the air is bad for us, then you'd think wifi would have caused us illnesses already | 22:33 |
| user | notice how all of a sudden we are talking about 5g and conspiracy theories | 22:33 |
| IronY | it might be fair to not be pleased with china | 22:33 |
| user | i literally posted a link to a MIT doctor | 22:33 |
| IronY | that is not a conspiracy theory, they 100% have been caught time and time again through out history faking numbers | 22:33 |
| LjL | user, can you answer my question please? | 22:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York City Mayor expects to run out of ventilators by Wednesday — from r/WorldNews at 20:30: Fired Theodore Roosevelt skipper tests positive for COVID-19 → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 22:33 |
| user | watch the video | 22:33 |
| user | or dont | 22:34 |
| LjL | or i do this | 22:34 |
| LjL | it should be clarified that person is not a *medical* doctor, and that he is also (mostly) involved in politics, not medicine. | 22:34 |
| IronY | I did learn something from this video, who invented email! | 22:34 |
| LjL | answer: not him? | 22:35 |
| IronY | supposedly it is him, let me confirm lol | 22:35 |
| IronY | it is | 22:35 |
| IronY | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva_Ayyadurai that much is true | 22:35 |
| bin_bash | a lot of people claim to have invented email | 22:36 |
| bin_bash | yeah that dude didnt invent email | 22:36 |
| bin_bash | he just claims to have done so | 22:36 |
| IronY | fair | 22:36 |
| IronY | So he is basically Al Gore | 22:36 |
| blkshp | The queen invented email ;) | 22:36 |
| blkshp | oh no, she sent one in 1972 | 22:36 |
| LjL | IronY, from which part of 'He is notable for his controversial claim to be the "inventor of email"' do you infer he actually did invent it? | 22:36 |
| IronY | LjL: It was a joke , but according to my google search, he invented email, if anything this should be a cautionary tale of accepting the first link on a google search has valid | 22:37 |
| LjL | fair | 22:37 |
| AimHere | I'm under the impression he had some part in the creation of some early email system, but he's hyper litigious and narcissistic when it comes to people disputing his claims | 22:38 |
| bin_bash | he didnt have anythign to do with it | 22:38 |
| bin_bash | if i was MIT I'd revoke his phd | 22:38 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Coronavirus: Irish Prime Minister returns to practising medicine to help during crisis (11248 votes) | https://redd.it/fvh9oz | 22:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2939 cases (now 1266816), +518 deaths (now 69068), +745 recoveries (now 260967) since 20 minutes ago — France: +2886 cases (now 92839), +518 deaths (now 8078), +745 recoveries (now 16183) since 4 hours ago — Canada: +999 cases (now 15425), +244 recoveries (now 2847) since 4 hours ago | 22:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:37 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYC expects to run out of ventilators by Wednesday, British PM Boris Johnson admitted to hospital for tests — from r/WorldNews at 20:37: Fired Theodore Roosevelt skipper tests positive for COVID-19 → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 22:40 |
| Birrosso | %cases uk | 22:40 |
| Brainstorm | Birrosso: In all areas, United Kingdom, there are 47806 cases, 4934 deaths (10.3% of cases), 135 recoveries as of 7 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 22:40 |
| Birrosso | 10.3%? | 22:41 |
| Birrosso | %cases germany | 22:41 |
| Brainstorm | Birrosso: In all areas, Germany, there are 100009 cases, 1575 deaths (1.6% of cases), 28700 recoveries as of 8 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 5.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 22:41 |
| LjL | Birrosso, yes, the death rates aren't being great in most places | 22:42 |
| LjL | Germany is an exception, for now at least | 22:42 |
| LjL | also the places like Korea that actually got it under control, of course | 22:42 |
| LjL | if only we could have known about some of the practices they practiced... like wearing masks... | 22:42 |
| LjL | if only someone could have noticed it before, like i don't know, some kind of health organization covering not just a country but the world | 22:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 20:41 UTC: /u/slakmehl: ProPublica su Twitter: "New York state has paid 20 cents for gloves that normally cost less than a nickel and as much as $7.50 each for masks, about 15 times the usual price. It’s paid $248,841 for a portable X-ray machine that typically sells for $30,000 to $80,000. https://t.co/Kwmf4o3II7" [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/W0EL2X | 22:46 |
| Birrosso | One argument I hear defending WHO's apparent tardiness is that they got chastised in the past for unnecessarily panicking and acting too early, like with SARS, thereby damaging certain economies. | 22:46 |
| bin_bash | LjL: ikr if only there were some... global health organization ro something | 22:47 |
| LjL | Birrosso, yes, well, they've also kept saying some things like "test test test" that have been ridiculed by countries that were clearly unable to "test test test" anymore, however, now those countries are being like, we need to reduce R0 to below 1 so that eventually we can resume the contact tracing we should have been doing from the start | 22:47 |
| Birrosso | I don't know whether or not they're doing a good job, just wanted to add that conuterargument on that particular point. | 22:48 |
| LjL | i think it's safe to say that considering how things are going in western countries, a good job is largely not being done | 22:49 |
| Birosso | Yes, by someone or someones. | 22:49 |
| LjL | and i think the WHO has made some inexcusable mistakes, like specifically, recommending against masks. however that doesn't mean other things they've said were also wrong or incorrect or bad. | 22:49 |
| stinkpot | is the USA doing a better job now in your opinion ljl | 22:49 |
| pwr22 | Just heard that Boris is in hospital | 22:50 |
| LjL | stinkpot, no | 22:50 |
| LjL | pwr22, "for tests" | 22:50 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: they are making unnecessary mistakes, and lied to public | 22:50 |
| Birosso | stinkpot: Which of the 50 USAs are you referring to? | 22:50 |
| stinkpot | yeah the WHO rep i heard justified the no-mask policy with the primary argument being 'it gives people false confidence that they're protected' | 22:50 |
| stinkpot | Birosso: all of them | 22:50 |
| Birosso | Last I heard they were fighting each other. | 22:51 |
| IndoAnon | >common flu is bigger killer | 22:51 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "pwr22, "for tests""> I find it hard to believe that he didn't have quite a bit of medical support in downing Street | 22:52 |
| LjL | pwr22, also that it happened coincidentally just after the Queen's speech | 22:52 |
| LjL | but we'll see | 22:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 20:47 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito — from r/WorldNews at 20:47: Fired Theodore Roosevelt skipper tests positive for COVID-19 → https://is.gd/WqPCfz | 22:52 |
| IndoAnon | >no h2h transmission > we change the pandemic standard | 22:52 |
| IndoAnon | >declaring pandemic means abandoning containment effort and concentrating on treatement(someone have said this on #coronavirus) | 22:54 |
| aradesh | pwr22: by the way, why are you at at risk group for covid-19? feel free to not answer | 22:55 |
| tinwhiskers | IndoAnon: no, it doesn't mean that. That is different in every country regardless of whether a state of pandemic is officially in place. | 22:55 |
| tinwhiskers | A state of pandemic does mean many countries have the green light to enable their official pandemic plans though. | 22:56 |
| tinwhiskers | (or lack thereof) | 22:57 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, but there *was* a lot of misunderstanding about whether or not it somehow did mean that, even by government authorities, which is shown by how they had to practically reiterate what a "pandemic" did or did not mean at every single press conference every day | 22:57 |
| IndoAnon | tinwhiskers: i am talking about WHO failing to declared pandemic _status_ by weeks 27-Feb: WHO not declaring pandemic because it would cost millions https://archive.is/ehJM6 | 22:57 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, there was a lot of misunderstanding, but it doesn't mean you should abandon containment, when many countries didn't even have any cases yet. | 22:58 |
| aradesh | everywhere in the world today seems to have lower than normal recorded corona deaths and cases? is it because it's a sunday? | 22:58 |
| IndoAnon | 11-Mar: WHO declares _PANDEMIC_ https://archive.is/ZleCj | 22:58 |
| aradesh | and no one has submitted the data? | 22:58 |
| LjL | IndoAnon, there are also other possible reasons. someone here was living abroad with a health insurance policy that specifically excluded pandemics declared as such by the WHO. imagine all the people who think they're insured and suddenly find they're not covered for THE virus that's ravaging the world... | 22:58 |
| IndoAnon | tinwhiskers: remember ebola? | 22:58 |
| LjL | aradesh, lol, hopefully not | 22:58 |
| tinwhiskers | IndoAnon: I don't disagree they left it too late, but you don't go abandoning containment plans just because a pandemic becomes official. | 22:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:49 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Boris Johnson admitted to hospital: Ireland’s leader, Leo Varadkar, returns to work as doctor one day a week amid coronavirus crisis — from r/WorldNews at 20:49: Boris Johnson admitted to hospital for test over persistent coronavirus symptoms → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 22:58 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, well, no, you go abandoning containment plans because you have tens of thousands of positives and you just kinda give up ;( | 22:59 |
| tinwhiskers | sure, then you might | 22:59 |
| aradesh | the 29th, last week sunday, was also a dip globally | 22:59 |
| IndoAnon | tinwhiskers: i said that someone have said about it on #coronavirus 4-5 weeks ago | 22:59 |
| tinwhiskers | Right, and I'm saying that is wrong | 22:59 |
| IronY | Negative: Cat pissed on the pile of clothes I left in the washroom | 22:59 |
| LjL | aradesh, there are some apparently weekly patterns in german RKI data too | 22:59 |
| IronY | Positive: Ammonia kills Covid19 | 22:59 |
| aradesh | IronY: oh no! how annoying. | 23:00 |
| LjL | aradesh, if you want to pursue those lines of thought... have a look at https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/478220a4c454480e823b17327b2bf1d4 | 23:00 |
| IronY | aradesh: Our bad sadly, the box was a bit neglected this week | 23:00 |
| IronY | aradesh: it is the worst when u cannot even get mad at them | 23:00 |
| aradesh | too many poos in it? | 23:00 |
| IronY | ^ | 23:00 |
| LjL | aradesh, bottom right | 23:00 |
| IndoAnon | >imagine all the people who think they're insured and suddenly find they're not covered for THE virus that's ravaging the world... < welcome to insurance world, which it gives false SECURITY | 23:00 |
| IronY | When this is all done I am starting a Global Hysteria Insurance company | 23:01 |
| IronY | we will be really profitable, until we are bankrupt | 23:01 |
| IronY | lol | 23:01 |
| IndoAnon | lol | 23:01 |
| aradesh | just make sure to sell it before the next pandemic | 23:01 |
| LjL | IndoAnon, well, when you go abroad, you don't really have other options, unless you're in the EU and going to the EU, which barely counts as abroad | 23:01 |
| IronY | aradesh: Could sell it during, then claim it does not cover preexisting pandemics lol | 23:02 |
| aradesh | i mean the company :D | 23:02 |
| IronY | ohh lool | 23:02 |
| IronY | Taking out my garbage is basically the equiv of a stealth video game these days | 23:03 |
| IronY | white pastey person appears with bags of garbage, doges behind bushes, avoids everyone, throws gabrage into target from range, sneaks back behind bushes, mission success | 23:03 |
| pepee | %title https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html | 23:04 |
| Brainstorm | pepee: From www.cdc.gov: Strategies for Optimizing the Supply of Facemasks: COVID-19 | CDC | 23:04 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: lol... i don't really think that insurance company would be the one footing the bill | 23:04 |
| IndoAnon | especially during pandemic | 23:05 |
| LjL | pepee, i may be reading selectively but i think its main piece of advice seems to be "don't get them stolen" :P | 23:07 |
| IronY | lool | 23:08 |
| IronY | 'Do not advertise you have a stock pile of the most requested item' | 23:08 |
| IronY | that is the advice I have been giving people for a bit now | 23:08 |
| LjL | IndoAnon, that's why i'm saying that declaring a pandemic (or not) may make a huge difference to people in those situations... | 23:08 |
| IndoAnon | WHO declaring _pandemic_ gives greenlight for many countries to take more action like >13-Mar: Trump declares _NATIONAL EMERGENCY_ https://archive.is/tcgPv | 23:09 |
| IronY | I hate a feeling this will be the end of the WHO | 23:11 |
| pepee | LjL, lots of masks did get stolen here in my country | 23:11 |
| IronY | have a feeling* | 23:11 |
| pepee | govt was blaming workers (as they usually do), workers blaming the govt (as usual..) | 23:11 |
| IndoAnon | useless tax guzzler | 23:11 |
| LjL | pepee, i bet... but like, does it take official CDC advice to realize? | 23:11 |
| IronY | Turns out the WHO is not very good at their one real job | 23:12 |
| tinwhiskers | IndoAnon: yeah, that's more like it | 23:12 |
| dolby99 | this virus has liberty and privacy taken away from people in certain countries | 23:12 |
| IndoAnon | that's why they shifted the 'pandemic' criteria | 23:12 |
| pepee | LjL, well, I'm not from the US, but yeah, it should be common sense | 23:13 |
| dolby99 | All the spying and invasion has gotten worse and will be permanent even after this thing goes away sigh | 23:14 |
| IndoAnon | When it comes to WHO, their priority is MAX(health)-min(disruption to economy)... apparently it's min(disruption to economy)-MAX(health) | 23:14 |
| LjL | dolby99, i feel that is very much a risk. however, even as i am normally a staunch promoter of privacy rights etc, i can't find anything to justify NOT having lockdowns and surveillance now, even as i realize that much of it will probably continue afterwards :( | 23:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYC expects to run out of ventilators by Wednesday, British PM Boris Johnson admitted to hospital for tests — from r/WorldNews at 21:09: Walmart security guard fighting for his life after being run over by man frustrated by COVID-19 measures. → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 23:18 |
| oriba | LjL: first the gouvernments failed to go into actions early and to have a well working health system. Suveillance is the workaround to heal these failures. And I doubt it will work, and don't think this is good for democracy. | 23:19 |
| oriba | some weeks ago western politicians said: "we won't do it the chinese way" | 23:20 |
| oriba | now they try it | 23:20 |
| pepee | they will have to | 23:20 |
| oriba | would they have been acted early, the measures could have been less aggressive | 23:20 |
| tinwhiskers | nobody is doing chinese-style lockdowns | 23:20 |
| IronY | man today is a ride | 23:20 |
| LjL | oriba, well, in countries where things have been put under control at least seemingly (Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore) there have scantly even been lockdowns, but on the other hand, aggressive contact tracing measures have been used, invariably including tracking via cellphones, using apps or otherwise | 23:20 |
| pepee | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfsdJGj3-jM | 23:20 |
| Brainstorm | pepee: From www.youtube.com: 【感染者为0的城市--南京】日本导演镜头下最真实的南京防疫现场 - YouTube | 23:20 |
| IronY | while doing the cat pee laundry I forgot a cloth in the utility sink that the washer drains into | 23:21 |
| IndoAnon | tinwhiskers: you mean welding peoples home? | 23:21 |
| LjL | and they did those things early. | 23:21 |
| IronY | nothing like the sound of a lot of water hitting a floor to wake u up in the morning | 23:21 |
| tinwhiskers | hindsight is wonderful. surveillance and case tracking is a very useful tool for helping slow the spread and it will "work" in that it will help. | 23:21 |
| tinwhiskers | It's certainly not ideal and the risk to permanent changes to our privacy is scary but it will work | 23:22 |
| oriba | LjL: good health organisatons can track without surveillance. one of the virologists in germany aklready has talked about it (more than once) | 23:22 |
| pepee | oriba, source? | 23:22 |
| oriba | there are people making monex with surveillance, and they propose the issue | 23:22 |
| oriba | pepee: look for Kekules Corona Kompass | 23:22 |
| Toadisattva | make no mistake goverments will 100% use this crisis as a power grab to strip as many rights a possible for the long term | 23:23 |
| oriba | pepee: if you want to listen: https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/podcast/kekule-corona/index.html | 23:23 |
| tinwhiskers | Here case tracking has involved airlines, hotels, police, etc. An app would be MUCH more efficient (despite the downsides) | 23:23 |
| LjL | oriba, well, Germany is doing good with the death rate, so to speak, but they are still registering a rising number of cases | 23:23 |
| oriba | LjL: surveillance will not help. it has never helped, when it was used before for other issues | 23:23 |
| pepee | %title https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html | 23:24 |
| Brainstorm | pepee: From www.cdc.gov: Recommendation Regarding the Use of Cloth Face Coverings | CDC | 23:24 |
| tinwhiskers | If you can do case tracking more efficiently then you can case track higher numbers of infections before needing to [re]implement lockdowns. | 23:24 |
| oriba | LjL: but it will do harm | 23:24 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, here case tracking has involved (according to a journalist who presented the issue at one of "my" press conferences) telling the family of someone who had died about the event, but not telling the family who had been *hosting* that person for the past three months | 23:24 |
| tinwhiskers | :-/ | 23:24 |
| LjL | oriba, can you positively show that it hasn't helped in the countries i've mentioned? because it appears to have helped. | 23:24 |
| oriba | LjL: what? | 23:25 |
| oriba | LjL: if you use more than one tool, which has worked? | 23:25 |
| oriba | ok, surveillance works, forget lockdown and handwashing and distance | 23:26 |
| tinwhiskers | they help, not "work". | 23:26 |
| tinwhiskers | it's not a boolean work/!work | 23:26 |
| IronY | As much has I agree we should all stay at home and what not, trust me, i 100% agree more than anyone and am living those agreements | 23:26 |
| tinwhiskers | case tracking helps | 23:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:19 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Boris Johnson admitted to hospital: Ireland’s leader, Leo Varadkar, returns to work as doctor one day a week amid coronavirus crisis — from r/WorldNews at 21:19: Walmart security guard fighting for his life after being run over by man frustrated by COVID-19 measures. → https://is.gd/uaomYC | 23:26 |
| pwr22 | <aradesh "pwr22: by the way, why are you a"> Asthma, high blood pressure, family history of respiratory problems | 23:26 |
| IronY | there is a line there where our civil liberties are probably not being returned to us anytime soon | 23:26 |
| IronY | Both sides of the argument are valid | 23:26 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: case tracking helps, but it can be done with interviews, as has been done in germany ... | 23:27 |
| LjL | oriba, there have been no lockdowns in those countries, AFAIK, except in Singapore at some point because they did lose control a bit after several weeks | 23:27 |
| oriba | ask the health experts, they say interviewing is good working | 23:27 |
| LjL | "handwashing and distance"... please. | 23:27 |
| tinwhiskers | the more cases you can track the more it helps. The more you can automate that the more it helps. | 23:27 |
| oriba | ask the app-sellers, they say you need tracking tools | 23:27 |
| Toadisattva | China have infrafred scanners and grabs and forcebly quarantines anyone with a high temp | 23:27 |
| oriba | LjL: masks? | 23:27 |
| Toadisattva | let's not come to that in the rest of the world please | 23:27 |
| LjL | oriba, yes, that's important | 23:27 |
| IronY | Infrared sensors are notably not very accurate | 23:27 |
| IronY | and easy to fool | 23:28 |
| LjL | IronY, that makes forcibly taking people away based on them even less desirable | 23:28 |
| LjL | so i want to join myself to the wish that we not get there | 23:28 |
| tinwhiskers | I understand you're anti-tracking but you seem to be wilfully ignoring that it does help | 23:28 |
| IronY | LjL: agreed | 23:28 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, there are negative consequences but it still helps | 23:28 |
| IronY | u can also beat them with like, Tylenol | 23:28 |
| IronY | (assuming ur temp is mild) | 23:28 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: mass suicide also helps against getting covid | 23:28 |
| tinwhiskers | wtf | 23:29 |
| LjL | IronY, i suspect that's why China required face recognition at some point before pharmacies could sell people Tylenol | 23:29 |
| LjL | IronY, if you had bought it, you'd get checked | 23:29 |
| pwr22 | <oriba "tinwhiskers: mass suicide also h"> That doesn't mean anything. So is the sun expoding. So what? | 23:29 |
| IronY | LjL: that is some incredibly scary levels of data correlations | 23:29 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: saying you don't think the risk is worth the benefit is one thing but ignoring the benefit is just being ignorant. | 23:30 |
| LjL | pwr22, tinwhiskers: i think that's their point... many things "help" but are too negative to consider | 23:30 |
| pwr22 | I think you're trying to make an argument through analogies but it makes no sense | 23:30 |
| tinwhiskers | but they are claiming the *don't help* | 23:30 |
| tinwhiskers | they do help, and it's a matter of opinion if they are justified. | 23:30 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, but tracing peoples contacts to stop the spread does help | 23:30 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: There are things that help but the costs out weight the benefit, for example, the dude is correct | 23:30 |
| IronY | if we lock the world down for 18 months | 23:30 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: no prove that its helping. | 23:30 |
| IronY | there is a good chance suicide will > covid dealths | 23:30 |
| pwr22 | It's catastrophising to assume it will continue | 23:31 |
| tinwhiskers | jesus christ | 23:31 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: these are speculations made by psychologists | 23:31 |
| IronY | not my own | 23:31 |
| pwr22 | The situation will be different and then arguing against it in that context will make sense | 23:31 |
| ecks | beach summer or riot | 23:31 |
| Toadisattva | locking it down full scale for months on end won't stop it either | 23:31 |
| Toadisattva | it'll just re-emerge when we start gathering in public agian | 23:31 |
| oriba | there was a very good documentation on surveillance years ago in the radio. title: Selbstmord aus Angst vor dem Tod" (suicide because of fer of death). It showed that surveillance did not worked in all those examples that has been used by the surveaillance industry a | 23:32 |
| LjL | to be fair, there is no reason to think we will have a vaccine before a year *minimum*, so it will continue *in some way* | 23:32 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: Most of the world does not have the mental capacity to remain in their home for over a year, humans are quite literally social animals | 23:32 |
| IronY | those of us that can, are the exceptions, and 3 months ago we were considered weird | 23:32 |
| tinwhiskers | case tracking is a well known tool to help slow the spread. The more case tracking you are capable of doing the more you can be effective before losing control. it *works*. Whether you think it is justified is another matter entirely. | 23:32 |
| pwr22 | <IronY "tinwhiskers: these are speculati"> Where is the modelling and studies? | 23:32 |
| LjL | we already know from models that upon lifting lockdowns, the thing starts all over again. strategies to avert that are unclear. | 23:32 |
| LjL | IronY, don't worry, we still are | 23:32 |
| IronY | pwr22: there is no modelling studies, but if you want one, go google suicide rates of the great depression, and multiply it by a few to be sure | 23:33 |
| Toadisattva | case tracking is a good idea | 23:33 |
| IronY | pwr22: we do not need models and predictions to tell us things we knew already before this started lol | 23:33 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: "case tracking" is not aequivalent with surveaillance (tools) | 23:33 |
| tinwhiskers | but it is | 23:33 |
| oriba | no | 23:33 |
| IronY | LjL: I enjoy that you also exist in the middle of both extremes of these conversations, it is nice over here, i wish more people would join us ;) | 23:33 |
| tinwhiskers | surveillance can increase the ability to do case tracking and therefore helps. | 23:34 |
| pwr22 | <IronY "pwr22: there is no modelling stu"> Why, because you think it will be worse? It could also be better. That's my opinion - I just don't present it as a fact 😛 | 23:34 |
| pwr22 | I am not sure, I just believe it to be so | 23:34 |
| IronY | pwr22: If your opinion is that this will decrease suicide | 23:34 |
| IronY | u lost the right to an educated opinion :D | 23:34 |
| pwr22 | Because I have no rational reason to be sure | 23:34 |
| tinwhiskers | you need to separate the fact that it helps from your opinion on whether it is justified. | 23:34 |
| pwr22 | That's not what I said by now I'm out. You're not focussing on my actual argument and you're attacking me instead of the argument 🤦♂️ | 23:35 |
| aldwich | as the hancock from uk said today, there is no clear-cut exit strategy (yet). but a few things will have materialised once a location is over the hump/peak. some vaccine/medication may hopefully be ready, hospital capacity increased to cope with the flattened curve. we can't lock an economy up for a year, purely financially. | 23:35 |
| IronY | pwr22: "Why, because you think it will be worse? It could also be better. That's my opinion" you lost the right for me to consider you literate | 23:35 |
| IronY | sorry man | 23:35 |
| Toadisattva | the researchers are working very hard | 23:35 |
| oriba | https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/podcast/kekule-corona/handytracking-bringt-nur-pseudosicherheit100.html | 23:35 |
| Toadisattva | all we gotta do is flatten out that curve and give em some time | 23:36 |
| pwr22 | IronY: stop being nasty please. Only warning you're gonna get | 23:36 |
| Toadisattva | unfortunately the flatten the curve thing came just at the end of the incubation period in many major cities | 23:36 |
| LjL | aldwich, a vaccine and a treatment are two very different beasts. hoping there will be a decent treatment by the time some country leaves lockdown is plausible, a vaccine... no | 23:36 |
| IronY | pwr22: Threaten me again and I will take my toys and bring them somewhere else, stop making dumb claims, and I will stop telling you you are making dumb claims, my opinions on your feelings at countering ur dumb claims are basically 0 | 23:37 |
| tinwhiskers | leave it out would ya, IronY? | 23:37 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "aldwich, a vaccine and a treatme"> I dunno - seems silly for a country to exit it before a vaccine is available | 23:37 |
| aldwich | LjL, vaccine hopefully in 2021, treatment this year, it's a race against time. but i am hopeful. | 23:37 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: fairly sure he just threaten to ban me for telling him sucicide will not get better due to covid | 23:37 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: thats the line, | 23:38 |
| LjL | pwr22, then prepare for one year lockdown minimum, two more realistically. at which point i'd have to agree with the suicide risk claims | 23:38 |
| IndoAnon | LoL | 23:38 |
| pwr22 | ?I warned him, can someone on the IRC side take his voice for a while | 23:38 |
| Toadisattva | nowhere is gonna lock down for 2 years | 23:38 |
| Toadisattva | or 1 year | 23:38 |
| pwr22 | IronY: No, you will be censured for insults - not for disagreeing with me | 23:38 |
| LjL | IronY, you're just trolling him at this point, you were asked to drop it, you are being rude | 23:39 |
| pwr22 | Do that as much as you want | 23:39 |
| aldwich | pwr22: from a pure cost/benefit analysis, de facto bankrolling say the european manufacturing industry for 1 year, just as example, i don't think there is financial and political appetite. | 23:39 |
| LjL | none of us is happy at the prospect of spending years in lockdown, or people committing suicide | 23:39 |
| LjL | let's just chill the fuck out a tiny bit insofar as we can, eh? | 23:39 |
| LjL | or not, okay | 23:39 |
| aldwich | i know we're talking saving lives here. 1 year lock-down i would say practically impossible | 23:39 |
| LjL | at least that's one less bot i need to have headaches about | 23:39 |
| Toadisattva | lockdowns will only continue till counries pass the peak | 23:40 |
| tinwhiskers | realistically it will more likely be periods of lockdown punctuated by periods of freedom. But the mental cost of facing yet another period of lockdown will be very hard on some people. | 23:40 |
| Toadisattva | then they will be lifted as quickly as possible | 23:40 |
| tinwhiskers | err, when I say freedom, I mean relaxed restrictions | 23:41 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, in which case they'll instantly have another peak. that's not a reasonable strategy | 23:41 |
| Toadisattva | to some extent that is true | 23:41 |
| LjL | what tinwhiskers describes is a strategy i find realistic... though unpalatable | 23:41 |
| LjL | but i am yet to see a palatable one | 23:42 |
| tinwhiskers | (pray for a treatment) | 23:42 |
| ecks | one week on, two weeks lockdown | 23:42 |
| ecks | rinse and repeat | 23:42 |
| aldwich | and if we add geo-tracking of positive cases, i could imagine that lock-downs may only be applied in when required in certain parts of a country. | 23:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 21:36 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: A domani! — from r/WorldNews at 21:36: South Korea's return to normal interrupted by uptick in coronavirus cases → https://is.gd/582aY1 | 23:43 |
| tinwhiskers | aldwich++ | 23:43 |
| IndoAnon | >have you tried to turn it of and on again? | 23:43 |
| Toadisattva | someone just reset 2020 | 23:43 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, even if we find a really really good treatment, you still need to avoid overwhelming the hospitals with infectious patients. granted, if it's like a "miracle cure" where you can go home immediately and feeling just fine, that'll take a lot of load off the ICUs. but i think we both know that's *very* optimistic in terms of a real treatment | 23:43 |
| tinwhiskers | sadly, yes | 23:43 |
| aldwich | that's why tracking is so important. however, and i'd like to add that: it really depends "who"'s doing the tracking. | 23:43 |
| IndoAnon | Toadisattva: CN already got 200 infected by NYE | 23:44 |
| LjL | aldwich, tracking only positive cases lets you find the quarantined moron who go out anyway. there are some of those, for sure, but it doesn't solve the core issue... which is finding out who they *met* | 23:44 |
| Toadisattva | yeah I suppose we'd need to dial it back to like august | 23:44 |
| LjL | which is why you need a bit more invasive tracking of a bit more people | 23:44 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, man I need to go have a shower but it's raining (I have an outdoor shower with only cold water). For some reason having a shower in the rain is depressing and miserable. | 23:44 |
| aldwich | as we saw from China, they were tracking infections. just change a few parameters and you can track critics... from a privacy/data protection point of view very difficult. | 23:45 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, at least the rainwater will have less poop in it? | 23:45 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 23:45 |
| Toadisattva | in my area most poeple are still moving freely about, stores are packed, almost no one is wearing masks or taking precautions, the cases are low about 20% of those tested test postiive, but it's only a matter of time unless people start taking precautions | 23:46 |
| eaxomar | and any temporary measure is bound to be permanent. | 23:46 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: I suppose there are some drugs that may provide a prophylactic against the virus in which case we may be able to go about far more normal lives while not overloading the hospitals. There is *some* hope of that even if it's a bit slim. | 23:47 |
| eaxomar | as evidenced by the last 20 years | 23:47 |
| aldwich | LjL: reg. meeting, i think you can if you literally track every device in the country, bit like "track my iphone". if one were to go down the route of facial recognition, you can triangulate, not abs sure how fine the grid is | 23:47 |
| tinwhiskers | Several of those drugs candidates seem to provide a prophylactic benefit. | 23:47 |
| Toadisattva | where are that at with antibodies in plasma? | 23:49 |
| tinwhiskers | I haven't heard anything recently | 23:49 |
| Toadisattva | I also see that when people are donating blood they are able to test it for anitbodies | 23:49 |
| Toadisattva | I'm wondering if I donate I can get an antibody test | 23:50 |
| tinwhiskers | hrm | 23:50 |
| Toadisattva | I was exposed to couple people back in like december that pretty severe "flu's" back when docs were saying, if you haven't been to china it's not covid and there was no testing for it | 23:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:45 UTC: (news): Boeing extends Seattle-area production shutdown until further notice amid coronavirus pandemic — from r/WorldNews at 21:45: South Korea's return to normal interrupted by uptick in coronavirus cases → https://is.gd/Tby5wY | 23:51 |
| tinwhiskers | The chance of you getting it in december are so vanishingly small that you should discount that possibility | 23:51 |
| aldwich | LjL: or maybe even simpler: relying on the altruistic side of the mobile user. say, you need to report if you feel symptoms, then you get logged and prompted to provide a list of contacts/locations you have been say the past 1 week, that then gets anonymously shared with your contacts via public health authority with a text message to isolate. | 23:51 |
| Toadisattva | maybe it was january, anyway before all the hype | 23:52 |
| Toadisattva | there are a lot of reports of "non-flu" flu from healthcare workers across the US in december/jan/feb | 23:52 |
| Toadisattva | people have the symptoms test negative for flu | 23:53 |
| Toadisattva | maybe it's just the optmist in me, but I'd like to think a lot more people have been exposed and recoverd than the numbers currently refelct | 23:53 |
| tinwhiskers | if it were the case that those were covid-19 we would have seen more positives and deaths. The epidemiology just doesn't stack up that it was widespread then. There is a vanishingly small chance you were infected with covid-19 back then. | 23:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1631 cases (now 1268447), +262 deaths (now 69330), +167 recoveries (now 261134) since an hour ago — Canada: +999 cases (now 15425), +244 recoveries (now 2847) since 5 hours ago — Spain: +887 cases (now 131646), +223 deaths (now 12641) since an hour ago | 23:54 |
| tinwhiskers | of course it would be nice to know but you're just using up a test for no good reason. | 23:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:55 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Tiger at the Bronx Zoo tests positive for the coronavirus, British PM Boris Johnson admitted to hospital for tests — from r/WorldNews at 21:55: South Korea's return to normal interrupted by uptick in coronavirus cases → https://is.gd/4AVlH9 | 23:59 |
| oriba | people who go out in germany can get huge monetary fines, and some people already had to pay a lot. | 23:59 |
| Timvde | Toadisattva: It would be really weird to have months of spreading without any noticable hospitalisation, and having it all explode now | 23:59 |
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