| LjL | sternenmusik[m], just because it's similar to SARS-CoV-1 there's no specific reason to think the fatality rate needs to be similar, if that's what you're thinking | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | SARS-CoV-1 also had a much lower R0 (naturally or artificially... if artificially, clearly it had other characteristics that made it more controllable) | 00:00 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <rager "it's a virus that causes pneumon"> True. | 00:00 |
| rager | the baseline fatality rate is lower than SARS-CoV-1, but we're seeing significant threshold effects when hospitals are overrun that make the situation so tragic in some areas | 00:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:55 UTC: (news): Doctors worry the coronavirus is keeping patients away from US hospitals as ER visits drop: 'Heart attacks don't stop' → https://is.gd/wptkpy | 00:02 |
| rager | but hopefully as people recover, the case fatality rate will also recede a bit | 00:03 |
| rager | since it's such an extended convalescence | 00:03 |
| Shock | rager: that's my hope | 00:03 |
| rager | and because it's hard to know when to mark someone as "cleared" if they're not in the hospital under observation | 00:03 |
| rager | but it's not reason to just dismiss the current figures | 00:04 |
| sternenmusik[m] | The incubation time according to media scaring people is 15 days, in reality its 5-6 days and we see most cases actually being at 1-2 days, which is telling me that some people have an interest to spread fear. | 00:04 |
| rager | just to better understand what it means | 00:04 |
| rager | stop truthing | 00:04 |
| rager | just stop | 00:05 |
| rager | this isn't 9/11 | 00:05 |
| ryouma | strange verb | 00:06 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <rager "but hopefully as people recover,"> We dont know, long time effects could be harsh like a hardened lung... | 00:06 |
| rager | it just sounds like the early rhetoric that kept people from actually obeying the shelter-in-place orders | 00:06 |
| pyna | a janus word | 00:06 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <rager "just to better understand what i"> If you like to really know start reading the studies. | 00:07 |
| rager | studies say that 10-20% of people go to the hospital and stay there on oxygen support | 00:07 |
| rager | and that it's very infectious | 00:07 |
| sternenmusik[m] | ??? | 00:07 |
| rager | what more is there to argue? | 00:08 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Which study? | 00:08 |
| rager | being this contrarian on this for this long doesn't make you clever | 00:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 22:04 UTC: ljl-covid: Add PM press conference, though stream was repeatedly cut off → https://is.gd/GBE9f6 | 00:09 |
| rager | just means you're argumentative | 00:09 |
| sternenmusik[m] | You are completely out of your mind. | 00:10 |
| LjL | rager, sternenmusik[m] whatever you do, don't throw insults at one another | 00:12 |
| LjL | i can't be copypasting speech without taking my eyes off here for a minute >: | 00:12 |
| rager | weren't you one of the ones claiming that southern europe was having worse outcomes due to hygiene? | 00:12 |
| LjL | awkward. | 00:13 |
| Birosso | Says the guy unsolicitedly inserting tubes into people's mouth. | 00:13 |
| LjL | fair point | 00:14 |
| LjL | or should i say | 00:14 |
| LjL | intubé | 00:14 |
| Birosso | Bad. | 00:14 |
| Birosso | Really bad. | 00:14 |
| LjL | yeah | 00:14 |
| rager | laying pipe unannounced | 00:14 |
| Birosso | %cases | 00:14 |
| Brainstorm | Birosso: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.0 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 125602 deaths (6.3% of cases) as of 9 minutes ago. 15.7 million tests were performed (12.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 00:14 |
| Birosso | How do I see + in last 24 hours? | 00:14 |
| LjL | Birosso, click on the graphs, or ask the other bot | 00:15 |
| LjL | !covid | 00:15 |
| CoronaBot | Total cases: 1,991,275 (+67,338), deaths: 125,951 (+6,335), recovered: 467,074. Active cases: 1,398,250, 1,346,689 are in a mild condition, 51,561 are in a serious condition. Mortality: 6.33%, case fatality rate: 21.24%. Case rate: 71,572/24h, death rate: 5,421/24h. Last update: 17m ago. | 00:15 |
| Birosso | Hmm-Mmm. | 00:15 |
| ryouma | can you communicate if you are ona ventilator? | 00:15 |
| LjL | no | 00:15 |
| LjL | well | 00:15 |
| LjL | you can write on a piece of paper if you are conscious | 00:15 |
| rager | sign language | 00:16 |
| LjL | but if you're on a ventilator ventilator, you aren't conscious | 00:16 |
| LjL | you are kept sedated | 00:16 |
| LjL | then italy is also using things like CPAP hoods, i think some people are conscious on those | 00:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 22:11 UTC: Add haphazard transcription of Trump's speech: I believe this took place on March 12 but it's only based on the file timestamp. → https://is.gd/xtM0oq | 00:16 |
| rager | yeah - not all venting is done by intubation | 00:17 |
| rager | but intubated patients are supposedly safer for staff to be around because masks leak | 00:17 |
| LjL | rager, italy probably didn't have much of a choice, they used what they still had any of | 00:18 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <rager "yeah - not all venting is done b"> Some venting is done by opening the Windows. | 00:18 |
| rager | yeah | 00:18 |
| LjL | rager, but at the same time, COVID patients need to stay on a ventilator for REALLY long times, and being fully intubated for that long has very serious risks | 00:18 |
| rager | womp, womp. | 00:18 |
| rager | seems at least physically traumatic | 00:18 |
| rager | and I can't imagine managing all those sedatives and paralytics is easy, either | 00:19 |
| LjL | but, by the way, today Borrelli said we have about 65% survival from ICU, same figure in Lombardy and Latium, which have very different epidemic profile, so he thinks it's a reliable figure | 00:19 |
| LjL | that's not as grim as the 30% survival rates some were claiming | 00:19 |
| LjL | but those patients will have to be followed up (will they be though?) | 00:19 |
| rager | I've read that hospitals are facing possible shortages of those, now | 00:19 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <LjL "rager, but at the same time, COV"> No one has the resources for this. | 00:19 |
| LjL | sternenmusik[m], uh well, it's being done | 00:20 |
| LjL | that we don't have enough resource has been *very* obvious | 00:20 |
| LjL | so triaging has been happening | 00:20 |
| Birrosso | I'm going to immerse my head in boiling water if I see another Matrix quote. | 00:20 |
| rager | from what I've read, the need is because lung damage occurs when the alveoli pop | 00:21 |
| LjL | Birrosso, what will you do then if you see a "long message" that takes up two IRC messages, and which subsequently gets edited, twice, resulting in 4 more IRC messages? | 00:21 |
| LjL | because i saw that earlier today | 00:21 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <LjL "sternenmusik, uh well, it's bein"> I know but 45% so far end up read. | 00:21 |
| Birrosso | ... | 00:21 |
| rager | so careful management of ventilation accounting for lung elasticity is important for a long time | 00:21 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <sternenmusik[m] "I know but 45% so far end up rea"> Dead. | 00:21 |
| LjL | Birrosso, https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues/1026 | 00:22 |
| LjL | Birrosso, hey look at least he was nice, instead of editing it, he replied to himself! | 00:22 |
| Birrosso | Oof. | 00:23 |
| sternenmusik[m] | You need 3 years of special training in intensive care to do it properly those kind of well trained individuals are rare and cant be produced on time. | 00:23 |
| rager | "can" is a weird word | 00:24 |
| rager | in the real world, "can" isn't all that important beyond the early stages like "I want to do x" | 00:24 |
| rager | but yes | 00:25 |
| rager | countries without enough techs on hand are hurting | 00:25 |
| rager | it's bad :( | 00:25 |
| LjL | italy has made several cuts on our supposedly "second best in the world" healthcare. several cuts, since the 2008 crisis (probably some before too) | 00:25 |
| LjL | and then there are specifics. even if we may be "better" than Germany in some specific healthcare aspects, Germany just has a ton more ICU beds. this time, ICU beds were important. | 00:26 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <rager "countries without enough techs o"> You really believe that? | 00:26 |
| LjL | based on my expert judgment on people's statements: | 00:27 |
| LjL | yes, rager really believes that | 00:27 |
| LjL | other substantive questions? | 00:27 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Thanks. | 00:28 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Ok guys,... talk to you soon. | 00:28 |
| rager | you don't believe that an under-supply of technical labor for running ventilators is leading to worse patient outcomes in areas? | 00:28 |
| Birrosso | BYE! | 00:28 |
| rager | do you have to? | 00:29 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Be nice, follow the rules, look after the elderly and sick. | 00:29 |
| rager | you can wait as long as you like to talk again :D | 00:29 |
| rager | :P | 00:29 |
| Birrosso | What's this smell? | 00:30 |
| Birrosso | *sniff sniff* | 00:30 |
| Birrosso | I think it's... passive-aggression. | 00:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:26 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Italy sees lowest increase in infections for a month as global cases near 2 million → https://is.gd/dXv9QM | 00:30 |
| rager | aggressive aggression is very much against the rules | 00:31 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <rager "you don't believe that an under-"> This I believe. Its logic. | 00:31 |
| sternenmusik[m] | I have to sleep. I am in Europe. | 00:32 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Take care. | 00:33 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <rager "aggressive aggression is very mu"> I respect you. We are here to exchange and develop. | 00:33 |
| Birrosso | Nute Gacht. | 00:33 |
| rager | then what's so weird about "countries without enough techs on hand are hurting" ? | 00:33 |
| rager | sleep | 00:33 |
| LjL | rager, let the sleepy sleep | 00:33 |
| Birrosso | He's not going to sleep if you order him to do so! | 00:33 |
| LjL | i mean, we've already "lost" Xip for the time being | 00:33 |
| rager | maybe that's leading to misunderstandings | 00:34 |
| rager | a lack of sleep never made communicating across a language barrier easier | 00:34 |
| rager | rest | 00:34 |
| rager | and maybe tomorrow will be more pleasant | 00:34 |
| LjL | hope springs eternal | 00:35 |
| Shock | rager: his reason for existing is not to be pleasing to you, I hope you are aware | 00:35 |
| Shock | nor is anyone | 00:35 |
| Shock | * nor is anyone's | 00:35 |
| rager | I'm hoping tomorrow is more pleasant to him | 00:35 |
| rager | not me | 00:35 |
| LjL | it's a miracle he's not banned yet, really | 00:35 |
| LjL | and by miracle i mean, i don't do the right things | 00:35 |
| Shock | LjL: who? | 00:36 |
| LjL | which on second thought has nothing at all to do with a miracle | 00:36 |
| LjL | Shock, the sleepy one | 00:36 |
| Shock | ah :) | 00:36 |
| \n3p\ | US | Members of the Coronavirus Task Force Hold a Press Briefing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7_wPl7DgS0 | 00:36 |
| LjL | ugh more press conferences | 00:36 |
| rager | from those people | 00:36 |
| Birrosso | Where is Fauci? | 00:36 |
| cyphase | https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52275989 | 00:36 |
| LjL | oh god it's a parade type one | 00:37 |
| LjL | Birrosso, you transcribed one of the press conferences on my behalf didn't you? i don't appear to have that saved as a file | 00:37 |
| LjL | but it should be in the logs | 00:37 |
| LjL | just need to find it... | 00:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 22:32 UTC: ljl-covid: Add links to my press conference transcriptions → https://is.gd/C8X3sK | 00:37 |
| Birrosso | OH MY GAwd1 | 00:38 |
| LjL | more ICU beds per capita than any other nation. technically true. what about trained doctors for them? ventilators? | 00:38 |
| Birrosso | He can't resist! | 00:38 |
| rager | he probably thinks The Who is English | 00:38 |
| LjL | Birrosso, of course | 00:38 |
| Birrosso | He HAS to compare. | 00:38 |
| rager | *The WHO | 00:38 |
| rager | U! S! A! | 00:38 |
| rager | U! S! A! | 00:39 |
| Birrosso | NUMBA ONE!1!!! | 00:39 |
| LjL | Birrosso, i'll show him just how much farther than him i can piss... when i have less prostate inflammation | 00:39 |
| rager | You, esse! | 00:39 |
| LjL | ey? | 00:39 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Guys if you are not interested in me I will leave and never be back. | 00:39 |
| Birrosso | Ayyyyy. | 00:39 |
| Birrosso | I don't think anyone here is interested in anyone. | 00:39 |
| Birrosso | Just in what we might have to say. | 00:40 |
| Shock | sternenmusik: we are here for information and discussion | 00:40 |
| rager | oh jeeze, the boys have whipped out their wee wees for teh pee pee contest | 00:40 |
| Shock | not to be interested in anyon | 00:40 |
| Shock | * not to be interested in anyone | 00:40 |
| LjL | > innovation and depression | 00:40 |
| Birrosso | Focus on the conference. Shush! | 00:40 |
| LjL | i am! | 00:40 |
| sternenmusik[m] | I can contribute a lot and it's said that it would have been right to ban me. | 00:41 |
| LjL | sternenmusik[m], yes, i was very close to banning you when you said that "southern" countries like specifically Spain and Italy were just unlikely to have good hygiene | 00:41 |
| LjL | that alone was a remark i cannot accept as something a decent person would say | 00:42 |
| LjL | if you want to leave based on that feeling i have about it, feel free. if not, stay, and try to meet decency criteria. | 00:42 |
| Shock | LjL: let's not drag "decency" into the discussion, please | 00:42 |
| LjL | what should i call it? | 00:42 |
| LjL | acceptability. | 00:42 |
| Shock | LjL: I think having a thicker skin is a useful attribute | 00:43 |
| LjL | ultimately i decide what's acceptable here and what isn't. there aren't any spelled out rules, not do i plan to put in place any. sometimes it's good enough to show examples of what's okay and what isn't. that was just not okay. | 00:43 |
| LjL | Shock, i'll take note of that thought | 00:43 |
| Birrosso | Wait, we're not considering decency? | 00:43 |
| Shock | LjL: that's what I try to do, anyway | 00:43 |
| Birrosso | Can I expose myself? | 00:43 |
| LjL | Birrosso, oh lord | 00:43 |
| Birrosso | Mods are gods! Boo! | 00:44 |
| LjL | Shock, what i try to do in this specific place is run a channel on a topic that's unpleasant without making it even more unpleasant. i often fail, but that's the goal. | 00:44 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Ok guys,... I'll be back. Need to sleep. Thanks as always for the clear words. | 00:44 |
| pyna | its not about north and south its about tomato or potato https://i.pinimg.com/564x/97/f8/95/97f895d8677af9a0b567844bc7381691.jpg | 00:44 |
| LjL | Birrosso, ops, ops, it's called ops. if you want to call them mods, go connect from Matrix! | 00:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:40 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live news: NSW premier orders special inquiry into Ruby Princess debacle – latest updates → https://is.gd/9WrVaZ | 00:45 |
| Shock | LjL: I don't think the topic is unpleasant :) | 00:45 |
| LjL | Birrosso, then you will see the edits and everything and it won't even look annoying | 00:45 |
| Birrosso | Okay mod... | 00:45 |
| Shock | I AM connected from Matrix :D | 00:45 |
| LjL | Shock, well i found that remark, and connected conversation (which happened when you weren't here) very unpleasant | 00:45 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <pyna "its not about north and south it"> ... 😂 | 00:45 |
| Birrosso | How is an operator different from a moderator? | 00:45 |
| Birrosso | How, huh, how? | 00:45 |
| Birrosso | And don't you dare discuss semantics. | 00:45 |
| LjL | Birrosso, no, i'm discussing syntax | 00:45 |
| Birrosso | LjL | 00:46 |
| LjL | they're semantically the same, but they're called differently in different places | 00:46 |
| Birrosso | He's using joy. | 00:46 |
| Birrosso | That's unacceptable. | 00:46 |
| LjL | Birrosso, so is the EU, although it stripped the lyrics away because they were in ONE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE | 00:46 |
| Birrosso | What? What are you talking about here? | 00:46 |
| LjL | Birrosso, and the EU is still acceptable until.. until... until... okay i don't really know how low the bar has to get | 00:46 |
| LjL | Birrosso, freude tochter auf elysium etc | 00:47 |
| Birrosso | Bad. | 00:47 |
| Birrosso | Weak. | 00:47 |
| Birrosso | Lame. | 00:47 |
| LjL | says you | 00:47 |
| Shock | LjL: I understand (based on previous context) that it was a conversation that was unpleasant for more people than just yourself | 00:47 |
| Birrosso | Even weaker. | 00:47 |
| LjL | Shock, well, i am biased in that regard, but i suspect so | 00:47 |
| Shock | it's your channel, you run it as you see fit | 00:48 |
| LjL | pyna, thing is, neither tomatoes nor potatoes were available before 'MURRICA | 00:48 |
| LjL | so Trump has a point, eh? | 00:48 |
| LjL | Shock, that is true. i can also take criticism though. sometimes. when i'm in a very good mood. | 00:48 |
| Birrosso | Trump just said it's "amazing" that the virus has wiped out "50%" of the oil industry. | 00:48 |
| Birrosso | ... | 00:48 |
| Shock | but you shouldn't accept other's opinions of you or your people | 00:48 |
| LjL | Birrosso, oh i had kind of forgotten he was speaking | 00:48 |
| LjL | funny how some things slip into your subsconscious | 00:49 |
| Birrosso | HE IS | 00:49 |
| Shock | it is irrelevant what X or Y thinks of italians or spaniards | 00:49 |
| LjL | Birrosso, is it not? i feel it kind of is! | 00:49 |
| Birrosso | It's an ad. | 00:49 |
| Birrosso | It's an ADVERTISEMENT! | 00:49 |
| LjL | Birrosso, tell youtube to shut it down, their policy is no monetization on COVID videos | 00:50 |
| Shock | good night to * | 00:51 |
| Birrosso | *? | 00:51 |
| rager | yo, guys | 00:51 |
| rager | I have idea | 00:51 |
| rager | what if | 00:51 |
| LjL | Shock, i understand and agree with your point that it shouldn't emotionally affect me, but we're only human, and i don't have infinite benzodiazepines. on the other hand, i don't agree with a point, if it was there, that it should not rationally affect my internal "score keeping", although that may not be a great expression, of whether someone is an asset or a liability to the channel, which is also not a great way to put it. hey. | 00:52 |
| rager | both potato | 00:52 |
| Shock | Birosso: all | 00:52 |
| rager | AND tomato | 00:52 |
| rager | how would food, then? | 00:52 |
| Birrosso | He's still going! | 00:52 |
| Birrosso | Oh | 00:52 |
| Birrosso | Okay. | 00:52 |
| Birrosso | We'r nothing but characters on a screen for you, huh? | 00:52 |
| LjL | Birrosso, it's a continuum. | 00:52 |
| rager | like TV characters or textual ones? | 00:53 |
| Birrosso | Textual. | 00:53 |
| LjL | i mean... yeah | 00:53 |
| LjL | Birrosso is less of a character on a screen to me than Trump is | 00:53 |
| LjL | FWIW | 00:53 |
| Birrosso | I'm very animated! | 00:53 |
| rager | I wonder if he ever drops the act | 00:53 |
| Birrosso | REAL ENOUGH? | 00:53 |
| rager | ops is dead | 00:54 |
| rager | long live ops | 00:54 |
| Birrosso | *Mods | 00:54 |
| LjL | Birrosso, some people would now put you on eternal ignore for using /me in an abusive way. some people. i've known them. for real. well not for real, just as characters on a screen. but they did that for real. | 00:54 |
| rager | "some people" | 00:54 |
| rager | which ones? | 00:54 |
| LjL | i'm not going to point fingers here! | 00:54 |
| Birrosso | LjL: Sounds like people I wouldn't be interested in acquainting. | 00:54 |
| rager | the right ones? the wrong ones? | 00:55 |
| LjL | (that is so false, what i just said) | 00:55 |
| LjL | Birrosso, i actually thought we were friends-ish until that happened. | 00:55 |
| rager | people or just characters on the screen? | 00:55 |
| Birrosso | Live and learn! | 00:55 |
| LjL | i can say i ask myself that question often enough | 00:55 |
| LjL | i mean, it's obviously people. but how i conceptualize them is a topic of discussion within my brain. | 00:56 |
| Birrosso | I have a very stereotypical image of you. It's almost criminal. | 00:56 |
| LjL | Birrosso, it's okay, i hate so much being and acting italian that i just end up doing it by pouting and everything, while only seeing the irony when i'm too depressed to find it funny. | 00:57 |
| ryouma | what do americans do to act american? | 00:57 |
| LjL | i don't know | 00:57 |
| LjL | shoot | 00:57 |
| Birrosso | I was going to say America is very diverse, but guns definitely immediately come to mind. | 00:58 |
| ryouma | i mean we don't all wear cowboy hats or eat hamburgers | 00:58 |
| LjL | Birrosso, if you do as much as uttering the word "diverse" to some americans, they'll show you their guns | 00:58 |
| rager | <LjL "shoot"> Americans do this. can confirm. | 00:58 |
| LjL | ryouma, hambugers are fine | 00:58 |
| LjL | and, to be fair... so are cowboys. | 00:58 |
| LjL | in fact, much better than hamburgers. | 00:59 |
| Birrosso | LjL: More likely in certain states than in others. Hence, diverse. | 00:59 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Majority Of Americans Support Monthly Cash Assistance To Offset Pandemic Damage To Economy (10276 votes) | https://redd.it/g190wx | 00:59 |
| ryouma | we don't have an american pout | 00:59 |
| LjL | not sure about Hamburgers, though. | 00:59 |
| Birrosso | Lurkers... | 00:59 |
| LjL | Birrosso, are you one of them people with an irrational disdain of lurkers | 00:59 |
| Birrosso | No. | 01:00 |
| Birrosso | I'm just scared! | 01:00 |
| LjL | for? for lurkers. | 01:00 |
| Birrosso | Look how many people there are in here. | 01:00 |
| LjL | towards lurkers. | 01:00 |
| LjL | lurk how many people indeed | 01:00 |
| Birrosso | So many eyes on us. | 01:00 |
| rager | have you played Brood War? lurkers are scary | 01:00 |
| LjL | to be fair, no, i've basically only played 0AD, and Globulation, which gave me RSI in my right arm that never really went away | 01:01 |
| rager | look at these doods: no chance | 01:01 |
| LjL | hmmmm | 01:02 |
| LjL | now i want to use my Amiga :( but i can't! it's in anoher municipality! i'd be committing a CRIME | 01:02 |
| Birrosso | LjL | 01:02 |
| Birrosso | Play Disco Elysium. | 01:02 |
| LjL | Birrosso, is it a mixture of Forever Young and Ode to Joy? | 01:02 |
| Birrosso | I hate you. | 01:02 |
| LjL | a justified, but unhelpful, sentiment | 01:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:54 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Italy sees lowest increase in infections for a month as global cases near 2 million → https://is.gd/dXv9QM | 01:06 |
| jester | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ | 01:06 |
| LjL | Birrosso, $40 on Steam, what is it made of, gold? | 01:06 |
| desantnye | anybody else got a swab test and it came back negative? | 01:07 |
| LjL | yes | 01:07 |
| LjL | %cases | 01:07 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.0 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 125602 deaths (6.3% of cases) as of 2 minutes ago. 15.7 million tests were performed (12.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 01:07 |
| LjL | about urrr | 01:07 |
| LjL | ... | 01:08 |
| LjL | i shouldn't commit to these things *before* having made the calculation | 01:08 |
| desantnye | I got decently sick irl, dunno if I should trust my result | 01:08 |
| LjL | okay, so, the answer is yes, 13.7 million people | 01:09 |
| desantnye | guy said I could stop quarantining myself if I wanted to | 01:09 |
| LjL | desantnye, impossible to say without knowing exactly what type of test you had (but personally i wouldn't know it anyway) | 01:09 |
| LjL | are you still sick now? | 01:09 |
| desantnye | I'm 99% recovered | 01:09 |
| Birrosso | LjL: I found it in the sea. | 01:10 |
| LjL | desantnye, if you're okay now, presumably you will be able to get some kind of antibody test "soon"... then you will likely know whether you had it | 01:10 |
| LjL | Birrosso, arrr, i see | 01:10 |
| Birrosso | Would gladly buy it if I could, though. | 01:10 |
| LjL | desantnye, fever, cough and shortness of breath? | 01:10 |
| Birrosso | It deserves it. | 01:10 |
| desantnye | I had whole body aches, burning sensations in my chest/lung area and the occasional low fever reading | 01:11 |
| LjL | hmm | 01:11 |
| desantnye | only had noticeable breathing problems one time I woke up, never again | 01:11 |
| LjL | not exactly a typical presentation but that's why atypical ones exist and are called such i guess | 01:11 |
| desantnye | the weirdest part was I had no coughing or rhinorrhea | 01:11 |
| LjL | desantnye, well it seems unlikely you had it. i mean, i cannot diagnose you obviously, but you had a negative PCR swab *and* your symptoms aren't strongly indicative of COVID | 01:11 |
| LjL | there are definitely a ton of other diseases around | 01:12 |
| LjL | rhinorrhea is uncommon | 01:12 |
| LjL | coughing is common | 01:12 |
| desantnye | I've never had a seasonal flu cause burning sensations | 01:12 |
| desantnye | definitely a first if it's the case | 01:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:08 UTC: (news): US airlines, Treasury Department reach agreements on billions in coronavirus aid → https://is.gd/vSoE45 | 01:13 |
| LjL | actual flus aren't actually so incredibly common | 01:13 |
| LjL | it's easier to catch a number of flu-like things | 01:13 |
| desantnye | the test was the one where they shove stuff in your nose | 01:13 |
| LjL | desantnye, anyway, if you're worried about your lungs, you might be able to get a chest X-ray. COVID signs are normally visible in one. | 01:14 |
| LjL | yes, that's the one | 01:14 |
| desantnye | LjL no you see, I was hoping I would test positive so I could roam outside again without worrying :') | 01:15 |
| rager | re: antibody tests | 01:15 |
| LjL | desantnye, well, you couldn't really do that anyway | 01:15 |
| desantnye | yeah, a bit of a naive wish | 01:16 |
| rager | there were some studies showing that up to 30% of younger recovered patients weren't producing detectable levels of antibodies despite having tested positive for covid-19 and no longer testing postiive | 01:16 |
| LjL | desantnye, it's not entirely clear how many people get lasting antibodies. an early study thing showed 30% of the subjects didn't show expected antibodies. | 01:16 |
| rager | I think they followed them a month | 01:16 |
| LjL | rager, yeah we're talking about the same thing | 01:16 |
| rager | so who knows how low they can get the false-negative rate on the tests | 01:16 |
| LjL | i was cautioned that there could be other types of lasting immunity | 01:16 |
| rager | but it should at least help | 01:17 |
| LjL | but... what we know so far is, 30% of those people didn't get the immunity we knew how to look for | 01:17 |
| desantnye | also a thing to note are the test administrations themselves | 01:17 |
| rager | like... if they can at least build models for prevalence of antibody expression, they can probably use the data to help paint more accurate pictures of population-wide stats, right? | 01:17 |
| desantnye | I've had close friends mention that physicians would just hand them a test kit and instructions to test themselves because they were too afraid to be near potential cases | 01:18 |
| rager | but like... it definitely reduces precision available | 01:18 |
| LjL | desantnye, well, that's bad. the sample should normally be taken very up in the nose. i'm told it gives many people tear. doing it yourself... wouldn't be ideal | 01:18 |
| ryouma | if your search ability is better than mine search for 09487850-33DB-4C5C-AF50-D07A9EAEF37D.jpeg which distinguyishes from flu cold | 01:18 |
| desantnye | I didn't tear up too much because I had an MD stick me | 01:20 |
| ryouma | is an average internist going to have test kits in the usa? | 01:20 |
| desantnye | only poked me enough to trigger the reflex, no tears came out | 01:20 |
| LjL | ryouma, my guess? unlikely | 01:20 |
| LjL | desantnye, well, but yeah, so you know it has to be done a certain way. some PCR tests may have very low false negatives... but only if executed properly. but at least it sounds like it was in your case. | 01:21 |
| ryouma | i have a frequent nasopharyngeal headache and irritation, caused by a swab many years ago for mold or bacteria. the swab had hooks on it though. | 01:21 |
| LjL | ryouma, bleh, i found the jpeg, but it wants me to be logged into the forum | 01:21 |
| ryouma | which forum | 01:21 |
| ryouma | and what did you saerch for | 01:22 |
| LjL | ryouma, i found it here https://www.s4me.info/threads/coronavirus-worldwide-spread-and-control.13287/page-33 | 01:22 |
| LjL | i searched for the exact filename | 01:22 |
| LjL | nothing showed up on Google Images | 01:22 |
| desantnye | according to this the nasal tests aren't terribly accurate https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.11.20021493v2 | 01:22 |
| ryouma | didn't work for me on startpage | 01:22 |
| LjL | ryouma, i used google | 01:22 |
| ryouma | https://www.s4me.info/attachments/09487850-33db-4c5c-af50-d07a9eaef37d-jpeg.10152/ | 01:22 |
| ryouma | is that viewable by you? | 01:23 |
| desantnye | can't see it, loginwalled | 01:23 |
| LjL | desantnye, true, that doesn't look impressive | 01:23 |
| LjL | also, same here | 01:24 |
| LjL | i know surprisingly little on the PCR tests and their accuracy given the time i've been here... | 01:24 |
| ryouma | well tell me where to paste it or something | 01:25 |
| LjL | ryouma, i use https://framapic.org/ to post images | 01:25 |
| ryouma | can't do it. my screen is too small and my gtk settings are making everything too black so i can't select the file. | 01:26 |
| LjL | :\ | 01:27 |
| desantnye | lol | 01:27 |
| ryouma | i am using vga | 01:28 |
| desantnye | here try this service you can pipe stuff to it https://0x0.st/ | 01:28 |
| ryouma | i need to be vertical to fix my compter but i cannot | 01:28 |
| ryouma | (orthostatic intolerance is also the reason i needed that product from amazon last inght but says out of stock.) | 01:28 |
| LjL | what did you need? i think i missed that | 01:28 |
| LjL | actually nevermind, i'll grep my logs | 01:29 |
| ryouma | i'm afraid somebody on teh channel would get it if there is one left :/ | 01:29 |
| ryouma | but basically i can't be vertical to do it but i need to do it | 01:30 |
| LjL | ryouma, wait not the beard trimmer? | 01:30 |
| ryouma | yes that | 01:30 |
| LjL | some special type? because there's like... lots of models of those | 01:30 |
| LjL | is amazon really that "out of stock" of everything | 01:30 |
| ryouma | i can't use normal razors or anything else so have to shell out the bucks for such of those. well ones that are close enough that i don't have to shave prevent me from havingt o also shave | 01:30 |
| LjL | yes i also use one | 01:30 |
| ryouma | it is out of stock of everything i looked for that is decent for those. | 01:30 |
| LjL | ugh i hate it that amazon.com no longer even shows me a checkbox to select Prime only | 01:31 |
| LjL | or even "Free shipping for blah blah"... which doesn't apply to Italy, fair enough, but i don't CARE, i want to see products shipped by amazon | 01:32 |
| desantnye | I've little faith in their shipping speeds even in better times | 01:32 |
| desantnye | they occasionally take time to 'move stuff around' before actually shipping it like 2 blocks from you | 01:32 |
| LjL | desantnye, in italy, if they're going to take a long time (which admittedly they will with a few products these days), they will state it | 01:32 |
| LjL | if it says two days from now, it's going to be two days from now most of the time | 01:32 |
| desantnye | doesn't work that way, here in america 2 day shipping means the shipping is 2 days or less | 01:33 |
| LjL | ryouma, anyway i see a lot of beard trimmers but since amazon isn't kind enough to let me know which are prime and which aren't, i cannot search for one for you | 01:33 |
| desantnye | if they take a week to begin the 2 day shipping that works for them | 01:33 |
| LjL | desantnye, that's... well. | 01:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:25 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live news: NSW premier orders special inquiry into Ruby Princess debacle – latest updates → https://is.gd/9WrVaZ | 01:34 |
| desantnye | their shipping generally is actually 2 days but when it isn't... that's the excuse | 01:34 |
| LjL | in the EU amazon ships from basically every country, and usually that works out fine, but these days if a product isn't in a warehouse in *your* country, that gets much longer, what with border controls reinstated and all the protocols... | 01:34 |
| LjL | but they'll state it on the listing | 01:34 |
| desantnye | during one prime week or whatever they did a marketing campaign where they upgraded everyone to 1 day shipping | 01:36 |
| LjL | Spec, i borrowed your zip code just to see what things are actually Prime on amazon.com! | 01:36 |
| LjL | now it shows me | 01:36 |
| desantnye | it actually made my 'shipping' several times slower | 01:36 |
| desantnye | they waited about a week to ship it 1 day | 01:36 |
| desantnye | wasn't really impressed but whatever, it's the inherent nature of ordering stuff | 01:37 |
| LjL | ryouma, hmm what are you after? there are some Philips that probably look passable (also Panasonic, i currently have a Remington i don't dislike, but that's more of a hair-beard-et-al kind of thing with switchable heads) | 01:38 |
| desantnye | I use some kind of phillips electric razor, it shaves close enough | 01:38 |
| LjL | desantnye, you should complain to them when something like that happens. get a rep. don't get angry but state they are way late compared to what they promised. it's possible they'll at least give you some $5 coupon | 01:39 |
| desantnye | oh believe me I do, they make it very easy to complain and get stuff from them | 01:39 |
| LjL | i had a Philips before this one, its problem was that after not too long a time, the head started becoming loose and it made a LOT of noise | 01:39 |
| LjL | in fact i have a hunch that might be what gave me tinnitus :\ very strong vibration right next to my ear | 01:39 |
| desantnye | is it very audible or just silent room audible? | 01:40 |
| LjL | depends on the day entirely | 01:40 |
| desantnye | a large demographic of people have the latter form of tinnitus | 01:40 |
| desantnye | somewhat normal | 01:40 |
| LjL | more towards the latter, for now, but i can't stand it | 01:40 |
| ryouma | is tihs a trick that gets you shipped and sold by amazon so you don't any uissues? --- 16:32 <LjL> or even "Free shipping for blah blah"... which doesn't apply to Italy, fair enough, but i don't CARE, i want to see products shipped by amazon | 01:40 |
| LjL | i wear a white noise generator thingie all day | 01:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica at 23:27 UTC: Science: We may need 300,000 contact tracers to defeat COVID-19. We have 2,200 → https://is.gd/qxYJgR | 01:41 |
| LjL | but on some days it's stronger than the machine anyway, and on those days i also tend to feel very confused even if technically i can cover the tinnitus | 01:41 |
| desantnye | I did a lot of cursory research about this LjL, the most promising tinnitus treatment is just shoving people full of antioxidants like melatonin | 01:41 |
| desantnye | bizarre but that's what literature suggests | 01:41 |
| LjL | ryouma, hmm? i don't understand the question. what i was saying is that i needed to see which products were actually shipped by amazon, because i cannot trust things shipped by third parties (which may not even be in the country, who knows how long they take to ship) | 01:42 |
| LjL | ryouma, but i am definitely seeing some Prime trimmers which means they are shipped by Amazon, hopefully within decent timeframes | 01:42 |
| ryouma | free shipping means shipped by amazon? | 01:42 |
| desantnye | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16455366 | 01:43 |
| LjL | ryouma, no, not necessarily. however, when you visit the american amazon from abroad, it sometimes doesn't show you the Prime logo, because you don't really get Prime. instead it shows something like "Free shipping for products above $19", and i know that selects Prime products | 01:43 |
| LjL | i don't really buy anything from amazon.com, only from EU amazons, but i use it to compare stuff or show equivalent products to americans | 01:44 |
| LjL | but they seem to have changed what they show a little. anyhow, i have told them i have an american zip code, and now they're showing Prime | 01:44 |
| LjL | ryouma, i sent you a PM in case your whooping 640x480 doesn't let you notice | 01:44 |
| desantnye | do you have the web chat available on EU amazon? | 01:45 |
| desantnye | it's so easy to send even barely qualfiying complaints there and get some kind of customer service | 01:45 |
| desantnye | kind of mind-boggling | 01:45 |
| ryouma | didn't know about web chat. also looking for a feature that says when a product wiill be back in stock i guess. but i am not the one who is signed up with amazon. | 01:47 |
| desantnye | sometimes I'll have stuff come partially damaged in the mail | 01:47 |
| desantnye | what usually happens is I offer them a picture, they decline it and just give me a full refund | 01:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:46 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live news: NSW premier orders special inquiry into Ruby Princess debacle – latest updates → https://is.gd/9WrVaZ | 01:48 |
| desantnye | or I'll complain about dumb stuff like 1 day shipping taking a week and they'll add credit to my account | 01:48 |
| desantnye | their kind of customer service is nice but also bizarre | 01:48 |
| LjL | desantnye, yes we have the web chat, but it gets me anxious. for that matter, telephone gets me anxious too, but it also gets more of their attention. my favorite would be just emailing, but when i email them they just call me back anyway... | 01:48 |
| LjL | or, well, try to | 01:48 |
| LjL | my phone is usually silent | 01:48 |
| desantnye | or how about that one holiday season | 01:49 |
| desantnye | I don't remember what it was but I didn't even interact with a human | 01:49 |
| LjL | ryouma, "also looking for a feature that says when a product wiill be back in stock i guess" ← you probably won't get that. i use a couple of websites that monitor what's on amazon, but they have been "asked" by amazon to suspend operation during this emergency. | 01:49 |
| desantnye | I just pluged in that something was damaged and the bot gave me a full refund | 01:49 |
| LjL | desantnye, i think our amazons haven't gone full bot yet O.o | 01:50 |
| LjL | there are probably enough cheap workers in Albania who know italian, for the time being... ;\ | 01:50 |
| ryouma | ok i thought maybe amazon has such a feature | 01:50 |
| desantnye | that was the only time I had an interactionless refund | 01:50 |
| desantnye | that one shopping season | 01:50 |
| LjL | ryouma, nope, they love to have you check incessantly instead, because that way you will be more likely to buy other stuff in the meanwhile | 01:50 |
| LjL | ryouma, i mean, you can put it in your list, but you still need to check the list | 01:50 |
| desantnye | I remember now | 01:51 |
| desantnye | I had a small box of random stuff get porch pirated or lost in the stream of shopping season shipping | 01:51 |
| desantnye | got a full refund on that without interacting with anyone | 01:52 |
| LjL | desantnye, i did have one item go missing during shipping, first time it happens i believe... so *that* one definitely took longer than expected, but understandable given the situation. i emailed, they tried to call me back, but i didn't get the call, so they just shipped a replacement to me | 01:54 |
| LjL | i'd have preferred a refund but replacement works too | 01:54 |
| desantnye | I don't bother phoning them it takes too much time compared to the live chat | 01:55 |
| desantnye | their operators have shortcuts to expedite typing stuff to you too | 01:55 |
| desantnye | weird thing is they have an incentive to pander to you since you're asked to rate your experience with them afterwards | 01:56 |
| desantnye | what were we even talking about :') | 01:59 |
| desantnye | something about razors | 02:00 |
| rager | many countries have laws that define the transaction between a merchant and a customer such that the customer has most of the power in verifying successful receipt of services | 02:00 |
| rager | USA seems to | 02:00 |
| rager | those definitely help you get your money back when something doesn't show up | 02:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:46 UTC: The medical advisors for the movie 'Contagion' saw a pandemic coming, but got one big thing wrong: Few mainstream movies spend big budgets on ensuring scientific accuracy, but Steven Soderbergh's 2011 movie "Contagion" had a team of advisors checking everything from the script to the props. CNBC talked to a couple of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/sr3eLL | 02:02 |
| l0ndoner | US diplomats raised safety concerns about the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) which was conducting studies of coronavirus from bats. way back in 2018 | 02:03 |
| ryouma | lipkin advised on that movie | 02:03 |
| l0ndoner | to say this isnt man made is a stretch | 02:03 |
| desantnye | i've heard of those studies | 02:03 |
| LjL | <desantnye> weird thing is they have an incentive to pander to you since you're asked to rate your experience with them afterwards ← yeah i've had some of them literally apologize to me with a tone as if they had just killed my mother. was weird | 02:03 |
| desantnye | some of them were even published years prior | 02:03 |
| desantnye | at this point I'll believe anything | 02:03 |
| LjL | i wasn't sounding angry at them or anything (at least not on purpose!) but they just apologized so profusely anyway | 02:04 |
| desantnye | one theory that seems especially plausible to me is the MAD theory | 02:04 |
| LjL | rager, we don't in Italy, it's the opposite, by law the customer is completely responsible for shipping, which i find very silly. but it's irrelevant on amazon... they'll do whatever you ask them to, until you're doing it too much, at which point they'll ban you. | 02:05 |
| LjL | but if you don't "cheat" you'll be fine. | 02:05 |
| desantnye | theory goes something like this | 02:05 |
| desantnye | one way or another they got the disease and then decided lobbing it to us makes perfect sense | 02:05 |
| davros | trump blaming the WHO? and he's actually withdrawn funding now?? | 02:05 |
| LjL | davros, he had threatened to withdraw funding before | 02:05 |
| davros | when he was there downplaying it | 02:05 |
| LjL | did he actually announce he's definitely doing so in the speech now? | 02:06 |
| davros | yes | 02:06 |
| LjL | i kind of stopped listening, too bad | 02:06 |
| l0ndoner | desantnye: the same lab happened to have a fire | 02:06 |
| davros | he's done it | 02:06 |
| LjL | davros, well, i don't know what to think of it. i think i am no fan of the WHO after some of the things they pushed (against) | 02:06 |
| LjL | (like wearing masks) | 02:06 |
| l0ndoner | Trump is an idiot and is more dangerous than any virus | 02:06 |
| desantnye | eh the world hasn't burned down yet | 02:07 |
| Jigsy | %cases world | 02:08 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.0 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 127461 deaths (6.4% of cases) as of 3 minutes ago. 15.7 million tests were performed (12.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 02:08 |
| Jigsy | 0.0% of the population? | 02:08 |
| LjL | let's not call politicians openly names, or eventually i'll have to be like "no politics" ;( | 02:08 |
| davros | 2m/7b its still small but if we didn't take action.. | 02:08 |
| LjL | Jigsy, well i limited it to one decimal digit. it makes sense for most individual countries | 02:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:57 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live news: NSW premier orders special inquiry into Ruby Princess debacle – latest updates → https://is.gd/9WrVaZ | 02:09 |
| LjL | Birrosso, instead of sleeping you should be telling me the big things Trump said! | 02:11 |
| davros | yup it's officiant. he's blaming the WHO | 02:11 |
| Toadisattva | 2 million is about .03% of 7 billion | 02:11 |
| LjL | what are you even useful for, gee | 02:11 |
| davros | fucking idiot | 02:11 |
| nixonix | or then there could be a spin-off chan with politics and offtopic :) | 02:11 |
| LjL | nixonix, yeah, i think i've seen that one being tried | 02:12 |
| nixonix | i like it | 02:12 |
| LjL | nixonix, i want to do something different or else people just keep asking "why are there two?" | 02:12 |
| nixonix | questioning is good | 02:12 |
| LjL | yeah but the answer is just... because i didn't know about them and they didn't know about me. at which point it becomes "so why don't you merge", at which point it gets a bit unpleasant to explain that from experience, that never works out well, etc | 02:13 |
| LjL | anyhow, i guess i'll just pretend he wasn't called an idiot a minute after i said to please not namecall people | 02:13 |
| nixonix | you can say ask nix, it was his idea | 02:13 |
| LjL | heh | 02:13 |
| \n3p\ | "Bolivia’s Evo Morales on Coronavirus: ‘China Won the Third World War’" LOL | 02:13 |
| desantnye | if everybody dies do you really win \o/ | 02:14 |
| LjL | nixonix, but anyway even over there they're changing the stance on politics... to what's been pretty much my stance from the start, really, i.e. "this thing is too intertwined with (geo)politics to ignore that". but it's hard to draw a line on what's just too much, and these past few days, honestly, i haven't been doing very good at any of it. | 02:14 |
| l0ndoner | us pays who $400m a year funding... That is going to be a sugnificant loss. Wonder if China will step up | 02:14 |
| desantnye | not familiar with the WHO in particular but we've been complaining about footing the bill on stuff like NATO and getting no value from it | 02:15 |
| rager | beware those who work the refs | 02:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:01 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports more than 300 cases for second consecutive day → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 02:16 |
| rager | also, lol@no value | 02:16 |
| rager | NATO is an expression of the American Empire | 02:16 |
| desantnye | *not enough value | 02:16 |
| rager | it's nothing but value for the USA | 02:16 |
| desantnye | *less value than expected | 02:16 |
| danielp3344 | Good news: I got a job. Bad news: it involves php. | 02:16 |
| desantnye | usually people point to germany's crumbling military as a meme | 02:16 |
| linext | what's new in the corona-virus? | 02:16 |
| rager | PHP is surprisingly not-bad | 02:17 |
| l0ndoner | Bill gates might foot the $400m short full now Trump pulled the plug | 02:17 |
| danielp3344 | ehhhhhh :/ | 02:17 |
| rager | until you remember WWII, and you give them a pass for not doing military spending | 02:17 |
| danielp3344 | rager: it's not as nice as python for what it does | 02:17 |
| rager | you say that.... | 02:17 |
| l0ndoner | rager python | 02:17 |
| danielp3344 | and the syntax is pretty awkward | 02:17 |
| \n3p\ | China Reopens Wet Markets with World Health Organization’s Blessing https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1185477.shtml | 02:17 |
| rager | the syntax is awkward | 02:17 |
| rager | and very verbose | 02:18 |
| danielp3344 | it's more verbose than C and not as powerful | 02:18 |
| desantnye | release the wetworks \o/ | 02:18 |
| danielp3344 | it's more simplistic than python and yet not as easy | 02:18 |
| rager | you'd be surprised | 02:18 |
| rager | php is stupid powerful | 02:18 |
| danielp3344 | rager: how so? | 02:18 |
| l0ndoner | perl :-> | 02:18 |
| danielp3344 | l0ndoner: better than php anyway :P | 02:18 |
| rager | did you know? python doesn't let you write multi-statement lambdas! | 02:19 |
| rager | php does. | 02:19 |
| danielp3344 | as in? | 02:19 |
| l0ndoner | why you right multi statements? | 02:19 |
| l0ndoner | write* | 02:19 |
| danielp3344 | rager: like single line if else statements? | 02:19 |
| danielp3344 | python does that | 02:20 |
| rager | no, lambda statements - functions | 02:20 |
| rager | like, anonymous ones | 02:20 |
| danielp3344 | I'm confused already | 02:20 |
| linext | php isn't so bad once you get to know it | 02:20 |
| danielp3344 | linext: well, I'll be doing that | 02:20 |
| rager | kinda similar to C's function pointers... but they point to functions defined inline rather than beforehand | 02:20 |
| rager | C++ added them in like 08 or 11 | 02:21 |
| LjL | woah woah woah, calling Trump an idiot may be a bit borderline, but i sure won't have any PHP talk here | 02:21 |
| linext | danielp3344, you can run your own test environment locally using XAMPP | 02:21 |
| danielp3344 | LjL: LOL | 02:21 |
| danielp3344 | ok sorry | 02:21 |
| rager | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17996690/array-map-inline-anonymous-function | 02:21 |
| l0ndoner | javascript and or python | 02:21 |
| l0ndoner | anything else is just padding | 02:22 |
| rager | php is surprisingly okay as a language if you've got an IDE to help smooth over its idiosyncrasies | 02:22 |
| rager | and it isn't as opinionated as python, which can be nice sometimes | 02:22 |
| danielp3344 | rager: heh, I'm working over ssh, with emacs | 02:22 |
| LjL | rager, more than "not being opinionated" i'd define it more as "not giving a flying fuck" | 02:22 |
| rager | even without it, it's not that bad | 02:22 |
| rager | and the documentation on the stl is 10x as good for php | 02:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:18 UTC: The medical advisors for the movie 'Contagion' saw a pandemic coming, but got one big thing wrong: Few mainstream movies spend big budgets on ensuring scientific accuracy, but Steven Soderbergh's 2011 movie "Contagion" had a team of advisors checking everything from the script to the props. CNBC talked to a couple of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/sr3eLL | 02:23 |
| l0ndoner | good luck rager you might be peeing against the wid with your PHP is god stance | 02:23 |
| rager | they do weird stuff like tell you a list of functions in a module with the types of their arguments and returns | 02:23 |
| rager | and have community code examples at the bottom of the page | 02:23 |
| LjL | just in: CNBC catching up with what every person on the internet has been saying about Contagion for the past two months | 02:23 |
| l0ndoner | <<<---- needs zZzZzZzZz | 02:23 |
| rager | you're just trying to score easy social capital by agreeing with the crowd about things you don't understand | 02:24 |
| rager | I've suffered in the code mines of terrible php codebases | 02:24 |
| rager | and I've suffered in the code mines of terrible python, ruby, and javascript codebases, too | 02:24 |
| l0ndoner | Cobol or gtfo | 02:25 |
| LjL | yes PHP has good documentation | 02:25 |
| l0ndoner | :) | 02:25 |
| stinkpot | do you like Django rager? | 02:25 |
| \n3p\ | China Disappears Order for Communist Party to Screen Coronavirus Research https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/coronavirus-research-04142020111444.html | 02:25 |
| rager | not particularly | 02:25 |
| stinkpot | do you prefer php to django? | 02:26 |
| LjL | when i started with Python i was coming from a bit of PHP (and earlier C but that's not very related)... and i was lost in the sea of... apparently no documentation? or rather, the extreme slowness of searching through it (like literally how slow the search feature was), and then it'd just give me a long page of a thousand things instead of the one function i wanted | 02:26 |
| rager | if I were to just hack something together, I'd probably use PHP instead of django | 02:26 |
| LjL | but... i guess i sort of get both approaches now *shrug* | 02:26 |
| rager | if I were to build a production app that other people would work on with me, I'd use... not-django | 02:27 |
| stinkpot | i see | 02:27 |
| LjL | my saturation is more on the 94-96% side than the 97-99% side. like much more, although it keeps varying. and i'm not feeling great. nothing alarming, this has just kept happening... i just wonder how much of it is anxiety, and also how my pulse oximeter is just wrong | 02:28 |
| rager | php is just so low-friction to get stafted | 02:28 |
| rager | started | 02:28 |
| rager | if I wanted to go more serious, I'd get something compiled | 02:29 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews at 23:55 UTC: worldnews: Trump halts WHO payments, over Coronavirus response. → https://is.gd/MX5G0r | 02:30 |
| LjL | i know it was mentioned. but now Brainstorm has it, it's official. | 02:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports more than 300 cases for second consecutive day → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 02:30 |
| l0ndoner | virtualenv | 02:30 |
| l0ndoner | best in breed | 02:31 |
| Toadisattva | I got my stimulus payment today | 02:31 |
| l0ndoner | now going sleeps | 02:31 |
| Toadisattva | am I going to own the full amount back on my taxes? | 02:31 |
| Toadisattva | owe* | 02:31 |
| LjL | nice post here https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/g1gvbh/trump_halts_who_payments_over_coronavirus_response/fnfippx/ | 02:32 |
| LjL | but still, i cannot defend the WHO very much | 02:32 |
| Toadisattva | the WHO has been nothing but awful through this entire thing | 02:33 |
| Toadisattva | lie after lie after lie | 02:33 |
| stinkpot | why do you avoid django, rager? | 02:33 |
| stinkpot | is it too high friction for you? | 02:33 |
| l0ndoner | Both PHP 7 and Python 3 are excellent choices for building a web application in 2020. But if I had to choose, I would pick Python3 | 02:34 |
| stinkpot | why is that l0ndoner ? | 02:35 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, i partly agree, but i also can see how Trump is just scapegoating them, and it's quite plain from that post, too | 02:36 |
| LjL | both things can be true at once | 02:36 |
| LjL | one thing they did *not* do was saying this didn't have a huge potential to become a pandemic | 02:36 |
| LjL | they may have been too stubborn on not just calling it a pandemic, but they explained very many times that that was not meant to downplay its danger, rather the opposite | 02:36 |
| LjL | if i have listened to those press conferences, then so could Trump | 02:36 |
| rager | stinkpot: because python isn't fun for me | 02:37 |
| l0ndoner | Unicode support | 02:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:31 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live news: NSW premier orders special inquiry into Ruby Princess debacle – latest updates → https://is.gd/9WrVaZ | 02:37 |
| LjL | %cases singapore | 02:37 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Singapore, there are 3252 cases (0.1% of the population) and 10 deaths (0.3% of cases) as of 2 minutes ago. 72680 tests were performed (4.5% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 1.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Singapore for time series data. | 02:37 |
| rager | some people like pie. others would rather eat cake | 02:37 |
| stinkpot | coo | 02:38 |
| l0ndoner | covid Taiwan | 02:38 |
| Butterfly^ | https://www.propublica.org/article/senator-richard-burr-sold-d-c-townhouse-to-donor-at-a-rich-price | 02:38 |
| Butterfly^ | oops | 02:38 |
| l0ndoner | !covid Taiwan | 02:38 |
| CoronaBot | Taiwan: Global rank: #100, cases: 393, fatalities: 6, active cases: 263, total recovered: 124, in a serious condition: -. Mortality: 1.53%, case fatality rate: 4.62%, cases/1M: 17.0, deaths/1M: 0.3. Case rate: 5/24h, death rate: 0/24h. Tests: 48,549, tests/1M: 2,038. | 02:38 |
| Butterfly^ | https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/chile-counts-coronavirus-deaths-as-recovered/ Chile counts coronavirus deaths as ‘recovered’ because they're 'no longer contagious', Health Minister says | 02:38 |
| rager | when has the WHO lied? | 02:38 |
| stinkpot | Chile counts deaths as recovered? | 02:39 |
| Butterfly^ | that's what the post says yeah | 02:39 |
| Urchin | %cases croatia | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin: In all areas, Croatia, there are 1704 cases (0.0% of the population) and 31 deaths (1.8% of cases) as of 4 minutes ago. 18359 tests were performed (9.3% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 6.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data. | 02:39 |
| rager | not to ad hominem too hard, but it's the nypost | 02:39 |
| stinkpot | that's a bit bizarre Chile | 02:39 |
| rager | it's like america's dailymail | 02:40 |
| l0ndoner | is NYpost equivelent to Daily Mail? | 02:40 |
| LjL | rager, i wouldn't say they have, strictly speaking, lied. but... well, maybe they have. they have stated facts that simply were not known as true or false, in a way that made them sound to laypeople like they were either true or false, and known as such. i refer mainly to the whole face mask shenanigans. they've insisted so much that they shouldn't be worn by lay people... and then suddenly they changed their minds, and many governments followed (or | 02:40 |
| LjL | preceded). is it true there weren't studies showing masks could be helpful before? sure! because there wasn't even the VIRUS, much less studies about it! but you can't say something like "don't wear them" with no positive evidence either way | 02:40 |
| LjL | i believe they wanted to make sure healthcare workers got them, as they needed them the most... but by coming very short of lying - let's say "confusing the public a lot" - they have not only not achieved that, since masks were hoarded anyway, but they have also undermined the credibility of institutions, including their own, with many lay people. | 02:41 |
| l0ndoner | in public sespecially supermarkets I wear gloves and mask | 02:41 |
| desantnye | l0ndoner NY post occasionally talks about tainted topics nobody else cares about so they're mildly useful | 02:41 |
| LjL | and well... if that's a good thing in their view... uh, well, i don't think it is? | 02:41 |
| rager | I guess the propagandists offering them as scapegoats couldn't do it w/o a kernel of truth | 02:42 |
| rager | Glove, Glove, Hat, Hood | 02:42 |
| LjL | rager, well i am not american and i've said this about the WHO well before Trump even started asking his staff what a virus was | 02:42 |
| l0ndoner | seen some people wear same vinyl gloves all day | 02:43 |
| LjL | rager, so yeah, Trump is now using them as a scapegoat, because he definitely downplayed this thing himself (and still is, really). BUT that doesn't make them not wrong, either. | 02:43 |
| rager | hm | 02:43 |
| rager | it's a leap to go from "were wrong" to "lied" | 02:43 |
| LjL | yeah well | 02:44 |
| LjL | either they lied | 02:44 |
| stinkpot | ljl have you been following the WHO since before covid? | 02:44 |
| l0ndoner | thats Trump for ya | 02:44 |
| LjL | or they were incompetent in a way that's abysmal considering who they are meant to be | 02:44 |
| LjL | i don't know which one would be better for them | 02:44 |
| l0ndoner | the same trump that berated rreporters for 2 1/2 hours the other day | 02:44 |
| l0ndoner | lol | 02:44 |
| LjL | they definitely said things without really having evidence from them (as shown by the fact that later evidence that emerged proved them wrong) | 02:44 |
| LjL | that's either a lie, or being a fool | 02:44 |
| LjL | if you do it on purpose it's a lie, if you do it because you don't have a clue, then you shouldn't be the WHO | 02:45 |
| Toadisattva | WHO full on lied about the masks, maybe they were just misinfromed on everything else but the masks don't work propoganda was an outright lie | 02:45 |
| LjL | stinkpot, no, i've started following their press conferences and stuff after COVID started, but before it reached Europe and especially America in an obvious way | 02:45 |
| rager | Toadisattva: can you state the lie that was told by the WHO? | 02:46 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, my personal belief is they did it to try to ensure healthcare workers got it. but that would just confirm it was a lie, and i very much disagree of such means to obtain such an even noble end | 02:46 |
| stinkpot | i don't know if they lied but they gave as reasoning for not wearing masks "because they give you a false sense of security" which is a ridiculously stupid reason to not put on any type of protective gear | 02:46 |
| desantnye | it's half true | 02:47 |
| LjL | it's true of any protection | 02:47 |
| desantnye | hard to tell if you get any value from cheap masks | 02:47 |
| LjL | it's true of wearing seatbelts | 02:47 |
| LjL | do they advocate against wearing seatbelts? | 02:47 |
| rager | they were probably working on the hypothesis that eye contact with droplets was sufficient to cause infection, so masks wouldn't be enough w/o face shields to prevent infection | 02:47 |
| rager | but they weren't considering other effects like limiting transmissivity | 02:47 |
| stinkpot | but that shouldn't ever be your main, dominant reason for recommending to not wear protective gear | 02:47 |
| rager | the flu is different in that your eyes' natural defenses seem to bind it up much more effectively | 02:48 |
| rager | the main dominant reason, as far as we know now, is that they were seeing real shortages in supply for said gear for healthcare providers and saw it better health outcomes if it were in hospitals instead of in homes | 02:48 |
| rager | nothing we've seen so far suggest bad faith by the WHO, just bad judgement | 02:49 |
| stinkpot | i'm sure it was rager. but did they ever open up and admit that the reason for saying what they said was due to shortages or potential shortages on the horizon? | 02:49 |
| LjL | rager, i believe eye contact has not NOT been proven to cause infection... it could be very well possible unless i've missed some news. but nothing will protect you *completely*, as witnessed by many doctors who got sick. a mask will protect you more than nothing, and wearing eyegear *and* a mask will possibly protect you even more than that. really i think no matter how one spins it, it was a foolish piece of advice *at least*. based on no evidence. when, | 02:49 |
| LjL | instead, in situations like this, if you lack evidence, a cautionary principle should be used. | 02:49 |
| rager | but we're in unprecedented times, and the USA usually takes a far more proactive role than it has, so the WHO is in a weird spot | 02:49 |
| LjL | 18<28rager18> the main dominant reason, as far as we know now, is that they were seeing real shortages in supply for said gear for healthcare providers and saw it better health outcomes if it were in hospitals instead of in homes ← uh, well, then you agree what your analysis of the REASON why they did it | 02:50 |
| LjL | but | 02:50 |
| l0ndoner | wearing anything over your nose and mouth is better than nothing I've just gone and bought 3 snood/bandanas instead of masks | 02:50 |
| rager | consider this: while the WHO was saying not to wear masks, its #1 sponsor's own Surgeon General was also advising his own public not to wear masks | 02:50 |
| LjL | <rager> nothing we've seen so far suggest bad faith by the WHO, just bad judgement ← bad faith? maybe not, depends on their ethics. but it's a LIE in that case | 02:50 |
| LjL | it may be a "lie for good" | 02:50 |
| LjL | i don't know what you may call it | 02:50 |
| LjL | it's a lie | 02:50 |
| Toadisattva | I guess it was the surgeon general who outright said masks don't work | 02:50 |
| LjL | they may have lied in the belief it would have helped | 02:50 |
| LjL | they still lied | 02:50 |
| l0ndoner | maskks are expensive now :( | 02:50 |
| rager | so maybe they were just following the lead of the US | 02:50 |
| Toadisattva | I swear the who made a similar statement | 02:51 |
| LjL | and *i* believe it's an idiotic thing to do to lie in a way like this | 02:51 |
| desantnye | there's another double-edged sword here | 02:51 |
| desantnye | some of the more disposable stuff is manufactured overseas | 02:51 |
| Toadisattva | mask doesn't mean you won't get it, or even that you won't spread it, but it limits exposure on both sides, it's a barrier | 02:52 |
| l0ndoner | like gloves? | 02:52 |
| Toadisattva | shouldn't even say mask "face covering" | 02:52 |
| desantnye | that's only valid until improper handling happens | 02:52 |
| LjL | rager, i won't pretend to understand the dynamics involved, and who made whom do something. i am making a very small claim here. it's that they lied, and technically, you seem to agree. in addition, i state that it is my strong belief that lying like this, even for "a good goal", is foolish and ultimately very backfiring. that is, of course, just my own opinion and yours may differ... but we should at least be on the same wavelength on the fact for one | 02:53 |
| LjL | reason or another, they did lie. | 02:53 |
| Toadisattva | I like gloves because washing your hands 50 times a day is very hard on the skin | 02:53 |
| Toadisattva | washing your gloves 50 times a day is no problem | 02:53 |
| desantnye | many people will reuse stuff because of shortages and well, now you have a cesspool of biohazard that never gets cleaned | 02:53 |
| rager | it also sounds like the literature is controversial and confused, still: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/new-study-questions-the-effectiveness-of-masks-against-sars-cov-2 | 02:53 |
| Toadisattva | masks are easily cleaned with a run through the oven | 02:53 |
| Toadisattva | er sanitized* | 02:53 |
| stinkpot | lol very backfiring | 02:53 |
| l0ndoner | gloves strewn on the pavement like litter is a pet peeve of mine | 02:54 |
| desantnye | do you really think most people bother trying to sterilize their face masks | 02:54 |
| Toadisattva | ultimately its just common sense, resperitory virus needs to get in your respiratory system, if you cover the orificies through which it can do so, you lessen the chances of it doing so | 02:54 |
| Toadisattva | I have a hard time understanding why others seem to have a hard time understanding that :P | 02:55 |
| stinkpot | yeah masks can be sanitized sitting in a hot car | 02:55 |
| desantnye | i'd love for there to be more studies about this too, I strongly believe improper handling can be a bigger liability | 02:55 |
| stinkpot | using an oven is dangerous though | 02:55 |
| Toadisattva | 159f for 30 minutes is the recommendation | 02:55 |
| stinkpot | i heard 164-165F | 02:55 |
| l0ndoner | hold up when the virus first hit it wasnt respatory it was spread by contact according to officials but we all new it was respatory as well | 02:56 |
| stinkpot | nobody's oven has a setting below 180F | 02:56 |
| Toadisattva | it's not human to human transmissible | 02:56 |
| stinkpot | at least i don't know of any oven that does | 02:56 |
| Toadisattva | it's not airborne | 02:56 |
| l0ndoner | not sure if Who had anything to do with that as well | 02:56 |
| rager | the way masks protect is by keeping you from coughing on other people | 02:56 |
| Toadisattva | you don't need a mask | 02:56 |
| stinkpot | it is airborne dude | 02:56 |
| Toadisattva | the WHO track record has been 0/0 on accurate information | 02:56 |
| rager | well, the other way masks work is by making sure you think before you touch your face | 02:56 |
| Toadisattva | lol I know i'm touting the WHO lines | 02:56 |
| desantnye | it must be telepathic | 02:56 |
| desantnye | X) | 02:56 |
| stinkpot | and the definition of airborne seems to be vague enough these days | 02:56 |
| rager | so they've said 0 things | 02:57 |
| LjL | rager, i believe masks also protect yourself from other people... to some extent. not to a great extent, in the case of simple DIY or surgical masks, of course, but there are indications it does to *some* extent. (that said, i will agree the main reason to wear them is if we all wear them, we're all protected from each other) | 02:57 |
| rager | and 0 have been right | 02:57 |
| rager | nice math | 02:57 |
| rager | that's infinity | 02:57 |
| rager | WHO is infinite right | 02:57 |
| l0ndoner | sneezes shoot further than a cough ... If I remember a mythbusters episode | 02:57 |
| stinkpot | they say Ebola isn't an airborne disease but yet if someone coughs up saliva onto you, you could catch it | 02:57 |
| rager | correct | 02:57 |
| stinkpot | that to me is airborne enough to be called airborne | 02:57 |
| Birrosso | 0/0 is undefined. | 02:57 |
| rager | and speaking to someone for five minutes is about as spready as coughing or something like that | 02:58 |
| desantnye | LjL problem is the cheap stuff never has a perfect sealment against the face | 02:58 |
| LjL | Birrosso, so you're awake! and you didn't tell me about Trump! WHAT'S YOUR USE | 02:58 |
| desantnye | hence why they're often not rated to protect anything | 02:58 |
| rager | and if you've got a valve on your mask, it's not protecting other people | 02:58 |
| Birrosso | LjL: What? I wasn't paying attention to IRC. | 02:58 |
| Toadisattva | there are lots of videos and articles showing you how to use rubberbands to create a good seal | 02:58 |
| LjL | desantnye, yes, they are not *rated*, and very rightly so. but that doesn't mean they don't offer some degree of protection, at least from direct droplets, anyway. of course if you can choose, you'd choose some N95 respirator. but the whole deal here is we couldn't choose. | 02:59 |
| desantnye | if you talk about more standardized stuff like 3m respirators I would say "yeah sure they probably work" | 02:59 |
| desantnye | surgical masks who knows | 02:59 |
| LjL | Birrosso, Trump's speech! he announced he's cutting funding to the WHO. but i was no longer listening to him. | 02:59 |
| rager | even so, making masks fit properly is non-trivial | 02:59 |
| stinkpot | that's true rager | 02:59 |
| rager | hooray, lets cut funding to the WHO who had to trust the Chinese government because nobody else would pay to study the disease in China | 03:00 |
| rager | that makes perfect sense! | 03:00 |
| l0ndoner | sneezes shoot further than a cough? so anything covering nose and mouth is better than nothing | 03:00 |
| Birrosso | LjL: Blame game, huh? | 03:00 |
| l0ndoner | the WHO have a lot to answer for | 03:00 |
| LjL | Birrosso, it's not a game, i'm blaming YOU for failing to inform us. i stopped listening to him because i assumed you were! | 03:00 |
| rager | the WHO makes poor choices on bad data... let's reduce the quality of the data and the staff through reduced funding! | 03:00 |
| desantnye | it's funny, decades ago we taught to sneeze into our hands | 03:00 |
| rager | that makes a lot of sense | 03:01 |
| desantnye | then someone realized how weird that was | 03:01 |
| desantnye | and now we recommend sneezing into our arm crooks | 03:01 |
| rager | and now we understand that this is not chill | 03:01 |
| Toadisattva | you see the growing number of confirmations that people are able to be renifected? | 03:01 |
| LjL | rager, no, let's fund them more, and also change the management so that we pick people who aren't so terrible at making choices, though | 03:01 |
| rager | like... it's less bad than free-sneezing, at least | 03:01 |
| rager | this sounds like a reasonable ask, lol | 03:02 |
| stinkpot | lol yeah desantnye | 03:02 |
| rager | instead of "just defund it" | 03:02 |
| rager | sure, fire the fuck out of people for poor decisions | 03:02 |
| LjL | rager, i mean, i'm not Trump | 03:02 |
| stinkpot | i remember my mom telling me that | 03:02 |
| Birrosso | LjL: I meant Trump! | 03:02 |
| stinkpot | you're supposed to sneeze into your hand and then go wash your hands immediately | 03:02 |
| LjL | Birrosso, and I meant YOU! | 03:02 |
| Birrosso | Stop. Pointing. At. Me. | 03:02 |
| Toadisattva | member when 2 years ago the Trump adminstration dismanteled the organization who's job it was to prepare for this and the fellow who ran it told us that when the pandemic comes we are fucked | 03:02 |
| l0ndoner | stinkpot: what if your in the street? | 03:03 |
| LjL | Birrosso | 03:03 |
| LjL | 🖕 | 03:03 |
| Toadisattva | pepperidge farm remembers! | 03:03 |
| rager | you're supposed to sneeze directly into your servant's mouth | 03:03 |
| LjL | ! | 03:03 |
| desantnye | we can't even get people to wash their hands so when someone says "face masks don't work" I can at least sympathize with their viewpoint | 03:03 |
| stinkpot | l0ndoner: sneezing into an arm isn't a bad idea i guess too | 03:03 |
| rager | just don't sneeze in publick | 03:03 |
| rager | you'll be thrown off a bridge | 03:03 |
| l0ndoner | mate people dont wash their hands after the toilet so getting them to do it after they sneeze | 03:04 |
| stinkpot | lol gosh | 03:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 01:00 UTC: CoronavirusGLOBAL: New reports from intel officials think that the Coronavirus originated from a lab in Wuhan, China. I thought this theory was debunked, but now there's new information? → https://is.gd/QRnmNa | 03:05 |
| l0ndoner | shit I gotta go zZzZzZz you guys are such good company I lost track of time | 03:05 |
| rager | looooooooooool wut | 03:05 |
| rager | bot be spreadin trouble | 03:05 |
| LjL | i'd link to that graph thing that singles out countries where people normally wear masks, and shows their curves are doing good, against the ones where people don't, with the bad curves... but 1) i can't be bothered to google for it, and 2) some of the former countries are actually doing bad now, whoops Japan and Singapore | 03:05 |
| Toadisattva | everywhere easing up restrictions is seeing a resurgence | 03:06 |
| desantnye | LjL olympics got canceled so they're fudging their numbers less | 03:07 |
| LjL | rager, bot hasn't actually output stuff from "Reddit (test)" until today because it was borked... so i won't take responsibility for the crap it posts until i've had some time to tweak the rss feed :P | 03:07 |
| desantnye | it's totally normal behavior for them | 03:07 |
| kPa | Toadisattva: of course they are | 03:07 |
| rager | your bot, your editorial voice | 03:07 |
| rager | the official voice of the channel, even | 03:07 |
| LjL | desantnye, soooo now it's no longer just China fudging their numbers? ;) (i mean you probably never said it was, but it's been said so often) | 03:07 |
| LjL | rager, you are mistaken | 03:07 |
| desantnye | everybody's numbers are off | 03:07 |
| LjL | the official voice of the channel is Birrosso | 03:07 |
| LjL | did you not see him get opped as soon as he joined? | 03:08 |
| LjL | desantnye, yes, but again, one thing is "off", another is "lying" | 03:09 |
| LjL | numbers can be off for reasons of... being unable to count | 03:09 |
| LjL | (or test) | 03:09 |
| rager | honest people widen their error bars | 03:10 |
| Toadisattva | my area has a very low infection rate and the spread is slow, most people are able to get away with not taking it seriously at all (and most of them are doing just that) | 03:10 |
| desantnye | LjL it's a guess with no sustenance I admit, but Japan in particular is known for downplaying statistics | 03:10 |
| Toadisattva | but I can see we are just kicking the can down the road, sooner or later social distancing regulations are gonna be laxed up and we're gonna explode with cases | 03:10 |
| desantnye | see their culture of not counting crimes with no obvious perpetrator/victims | 03:11 |
| LjL | desantnye, it's not like their numbers went up suddenly in a step though. it looks textbook exponential (well, last i looked anyway) | 03:11 |
| LjL | okay uh actually not very textbook exponential, they have some odd bumps | 03:11 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: US to halt funding to WHO over coronavirus (10215 votes) | https://redd.it/g1fi31 | 03:11 |
| LjL | also, they are at the amount that Korea had when they managed to start flattening it | 03:12 |
| kPa | well given the fact that it's very contagious, everyone has a very good chance of getting it, Toadisattva, the hope of social distancing is to spread out the infections over time so that hospitals do not get too overwhelmed | 03:12 |
| LjL | so... i guess this is the time to be watching Japan | 03:12 |
| desantnye | every country had an economic incentive to play with their numbers before they blew up | 03:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:00 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump suspends WHO funding as global deaths pass 125,000: US to investigate World Health Organization’s response to crisis; cases worldwide pass 1.97m; France summons Chinese envoy. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/zTr6YG | 03:12 |
| desantnye | naive but still | 03:12 |
| LjL | India's curve, and its steepness in particular, is the one that reminds me the most of the US a while ago | 03:14 |
| Toadisattva | yeah I get that not overwhelming the hospitals like italy and new york, and buying more time for treatments is a good thing | 03:14 |
| LjL | i believe the technical term is "fucking scary" | 03:14 |
| LjL | but also, signature steepness of starting to test after you had not been testing | 03:14 |
| Toadisattva | admittedly I'm getting really tired of wearing a mask all the time and sanitizing everything incessantly lol | 03:16 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, i think desantnye didn't mean that... they meant "playing with the numbers" as in actually misreporting them | 03:16 |
| kPa | India is really scary. And I think they are going to have a massive underreporting of cases just because of the difficulty of logistics | 03:16 |
| Toadisattva | oh the numbers are bullshit on all sides | 03:16 |
| desantnye | i don't know, it's not always malice | 03:17 |
| Toadisattva | so much fudging, no standiardization in how their measured | 03:17 |
| desantnye | we didn't have good testing at first because of equipment shortages so anyone that wasn't gravely ill would get turned away | 03:17 |
| rager | I kinda like the masks | 03:17 |
| Toadisattva | it doesn't have to be malacious, but inconsistent | 03:17 |
| kPa | I'm not suggesting malice, it's just so difficult because of the insane population density | 03:17 |
| rager | gives me stuff to run on the 3d printer | 03:17 |
| desantnye | also we didn't have very good health insurance guidelines at first | 03:17 |
| rager | I got a bunch of nylon before the lockdown | 03:17 |
| rager | keeps its shape in the bottom rack of the dishwasher | 03:17 |
| desantnye | tests are 'free' now but who knows | 03:18 |
| LjL | kPa, i wish i could be like those people who just tweet "I'll pray for India 🙏" and presumably feel no further uneasiness about it | 03:18 |
| kPa | 1 like = 1 prayer | 03:18 |
| Toadisattva | I'm also concerned of the couple of reports of them finding test kits being sent out that were already contaminated | 03:18 |
| Toadisattva | last thing I want is to go get tested and get a big fat dose of SARS-CoV=2 inserted into my sinuses | 03:19 |
| desantnye | how can that be though | 03:19 |
| LjL | but then again i'm hypocritical (or just human?) anyway. Africa is as much at risk as India for all i know, but i know people in India and i don't know people in Africa, and that's enough to make it feel personally different. | 03:19 |
| desantnye | some kits just contain generic sterile sealed cotton swabs with breakaways | 03:19 |
| kPa | certainly you have a different personal attention to it, you can't focus your attention everywhere all the time | 03:20 |
| kPa | also iirc the population density in Africa isn't as insane as INdia | 03:20 |
| LjL | kPa, it is a tad overwhelming when i try, and then i have to take some lorazepam. | 03:20 |
| LjL | actually, clonazepam. | 03:20 |
| desantnye | oh man, benzos | 03:20 |
| desantnye | not good for you long term but you probably knew this | 03:21 |
| Toadisattva | this is the main one I saw: https://www.foxnews.com/world/coronavirus-tests-uk-contaminated-covid-19 | 03:21 |
| kPa | yeah try not to, you can't be everywhere all at once, even if it is stuck at home on the interent | 03:21 |
| LjL | kPa, well, there are both dense places and "lawless" places in both. i think it's hard to say which dynamics will make it worse. | 03:21 |
| Toadisattva | but I guess canada got a bunch of swabs contammed with mold https://www.foxnews.com/world/coronavirus-tests-uk-contaminated-covid-19 | 03:21 |
| Toadisattva | ooops sorry | 03:21 |
| Toadisattva | https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/04/10/ontario-received-100000-contaminated-unusable-swabs-for-covid-19-tests.html | 03:21 |
| LjL | desantnye, i do know, but... i'll talk about it with my doctor next time i see her, in like two years ;) | 03:21 |
| kPa | try to take it easy, and know that focusing your attention on where you have the most personal interest does not make you negligent | 03:21 |
| LjL | i guess you're right | 03:22 |
| desantnye | LjL I don't know your circumstances but benzos for anxiety eventually becomes an oxymoron | 03:22 |
| desantnye | I've never seen anyone use it long-term and have it work out | 03:23 |
| Toadisattva | I'm wondering if India and Africa will not be hit so bad for the fact that so many people are not constantly indoors like they are in more affluent places | 03:23 |
| desantnye | it's very comparable to alcoholism if you need an analogy | 03:23 |
| kPa | I know, it's hard to focus your gaze when there's so much suffering everywhere | 03:23 |
| kPa | Toadisattva I hope you're right | 03:24 |
| Toadisattva | benzos are bad news and should really not be used outside the hands of medical professinals for extreme circumstances imo | 03:24 |
| LjL | desantnye, i know, it just went the way it went, and ";)" aside, i really just can't see doctor for a proper tapering and switching to something less addictive | 03:25 |
| Toadisattva | this whole I have anxiety I'll pop a xanax and never address it culture is unfortunate | 03:25 |
| Toadisattva | meditation > medication :) | 03:25 |
| LjL | desantnye, i'll see them when this emergency is over, but that won't be very soon | 03:25 |
| ThomCat[m] | I know it's not a benzo, but I had to talk antidepressants for the first time in my life this January and got on Lexapro, holy shit that worked. | 03:25 |
| ThomCat[m] | Take* | 03:26 |
| kPa | yeah that also really concerns me, there's so much medical attention that is 'not urgent' but wait too long and it will become urgent | 03:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:13 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live news: NSW premier orders special inquiry into Ruby Princess debacle – latest updates → https://is.gd/9WrVaZ | 03:26 |
| LjL | ThomCat[m], there are many different things that work (or don't) for different people. i've found it seems to be more guesswork than other parts of medicine | 03:26 |
| desantnye | LjL some other people will tell you that's a euphemism for doctor shopping ;) | 03:26 |
| kPa | we need to prioritize increasing access to general medicine over the rest of the 'non-essential' economy that's on hold | 03:26 |
| ThomCat[m] | LjL oh definitely, didn't want to suggest my solution was a one-size-fits-all, just sharing my experience | 03:27 |
| nb | although telemedicine doesn't work for a lot of things, i suppose | 03:27 |
| kPa | nb, it's a great thing, but some things don't... yeah exactly | 03:27 |
| LjL | desantnye, well, "doctor shopping" would be more like if you have a specific med in mind that you want to be taking, and you try doctors until you find one willing, no? | 03:27 |
| LjL | desantnye, but really even if you are not after anything specific, they'll keep changing things and a new one will say the old one got it all wrong | 03:27 |
| desantnye | nb hey, we prescribe viagra over teleconference calls now | 03:28 |
| nb | yeah, i saw ads on TV about that | 03:28 |
| LjL | oh god | 03:28 |
| desantnye | welcome to the freedom of being able to pick your healthcare | 03:28 |
| nb | Both of my doctors offices do telemedicine now. I have a NP that is my "primary provider" but most of the time I go to the clinic at the university I work at, which is ran by a DO and 2 NPs from my local hospital system | 03:29 |
| nb | my primary NP still does in person visits, I think the university's clinic is phone and telemedicine only | 03:29 |
| desantnye | LjL that's the weird paradox of having the freedom to choose your treatment options | 03:29 |
| Toadisattva | I'm seriously considering looking into moving to spain when this is all over | 03:30 |
| desantnye | at any point the patient can just take their money to someone that will treat them a certain way | 03:30 |
| Toadisattva | what with the permament implimentation of UBI | 03:30 |
| Toadisattva | I could really go for socialized medicine, laxed drug polcies, and never having to risk being homeless and destitute | 03:30 |
| desantnye | I think the other extreme is worse, not being able to choose your treatments as much is definitely no better | 03:30 |
| LjL | %tell ryouma: this is from a note i had made the other day to ask someone something: OSCAR is the name of the open source software that combines CPAP readings with pulse oximeter readings (especially that Contec pulse oximeter line i mentioned). https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/ and https://gitlab.com/pholy/OSCAR-code (i believe it was called SleepyHeads before but this is the active fork) | 03:32 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I'll pass ryouma your message when they are around. | 03:32 |
| desantnye | Toadisattva I prefer the useless opinion of stating healthcare is terrible everywhere | 03:34 |
| desantnye | seems like more socialized systems have huge problems with waiting for services for example | 03:35 |
| desantnye | or the usual government bloat | 03:36 |
| Toadisattva | not everywhere | 03:37 |
| Toadisattva | witch doctors are still pretty good :P | 03:37 |
| desantnye | :O this is true | 03:37 |
| Toadisattva | a goat is a small price to pay to have the favor of the forest spirits | 03:37 |
| bin_bash | lol | 03:38 |
| desantnye | total tangent here | 03:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:31 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump suspends WHO funding as global deaths pass 125,000: US to investigate World Health Organization’s response to crisis; cases worldwide pass 1.97m; France summons Chinese envoy. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/zTr6YG | 03:40 |
| desantnye | I remember some countries giving healthcare priority to those that agreed to donate organs on death | 03:40 |
| desantnye | I'm a bit conflicted on this because it's so morally vague | 03:41 |
| Toadisattva | gotta keep that liver in good shape if you gonna sell it on the chinese black market | 03:41 |
| desantnye | no I think it was a group of middle east countries | 03:41 |
| desantnye | on one hand there are organ shortages and you've invented an incentive out of thin air | 03:42 |
| desantnye | on the other hand... should people really be forced to make choices like these? | 03:43 |
| UNH | hello | 03:45 |
| rager | gotta get the organs in the hospital when the host dies, desantnye | 03:46 |
| rager | maximizes organ supply :P | 03:46 |
| LjL | * UNH (40fb3d4a@enrt151-d-vlan-2.net.cen.ct.gov) has joined | 03:50 |
| LjL | ah it's an educational institution | 03:51 |
| LjL | they should make a TLD for that, i dunno, .edu | 03:51 |
| nb | The World Health Organization (WHO) announced that dogs cannot get Covid-19. Dogs can be released from quarantine. I guess you could say that "WHO let the dogs out" | 03:52 |
| \n3p\ | nb, WHO has no credibility at all | 03:53 |
| rager | nb: WHO WHO WHO WHO | 03:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:50 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: UN Secretary General says now is not time to reduce resources in fight against Covid-19 → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 03:54 |
| LjL | %tell contingo, yuriwho, dunnp: surprise, "no treatment is shown to work", who'd've thought: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2764727 | 03:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I'll pass contingo, as well as yuriwho, as well as dunnp your message when they are around. | 03:54 |
| LjL | nb, they announced it... based on what? because two dogs tested positive, multiple times, including after quarantine... | 03:55 |
| LjL | also cats | 03:55 |
| dunnp | not a surprise really | 03:57 |
| desantnye | what'd I miss | 03:58 |
| LjL | dunnp, not really, but i thought you might be interested in the ongoing "summary" papers on treatments anyway... | 03:58 |
| nb | LjL, it was a joke | 03:59 |
| LjL | oh | 03:59 |
| nb | based on the song "who let the dogs out" | 03:59 |
| LjL | my excuse is i don't know the song | 03:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 01:57 UTC: ljl-covid: Add sobering review on (lack of) effective treatments → https://is.gd/OXf8os | 04:01 |
| kPa | yeah I don't know what's going on over there at the WHO but they have done everything but inspired confindence in their ability to make good judgements | 04:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:05 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live news: Tasmanian premier says vilification of healthcare workers 'not acceptable' – latest updates → https://is.gd/9WrVaZ | 04:08 |
| dunnp | how are you doin LjL? | 04:11 |
| MjrTom | \n3p\: if it's illegal to test for cov2 in MX how is MX posting new cases? (Legit question, not being antagonistic) | 04:14 |
| ryouma | who could do a lot moe than they are. in particular they could listen to their OWN constitution and ensure that sick populations that are often scapegoated (e.g. diseases govs don't want to admit exist, or diseases that are socially disapproved of, and same for disabilities) are not subject to scapegoating and malign triage. | 04:15 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: At 2020-04-15 01:32:11 UTC, LjL told you: this is from a note i had made the other day to ask someone something: OSCAR is the name of the open source software that combines CPAP readings with pulse oximeter readings (especially that Contec pulse oximeter line i mentioned). https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/ and https://gitlab.com/pholy/OSCAR-code (i believe it was called SleepyHeads before but this is the active fork) | 04:15 |
| ryouma | thanks | 04:15 |
| ryouma | the other thing who could do is stockpile ppe a year ago and distribute it 3 months ago. | 04:16 |
| ryouma | perhaps us was not paying them enough to do that | 04:16 |
| \n3p\ | Mj it's illegal for citizens and PRIVATE doctors, hospitals and drugstores. The ultra-corrupt government of Mexico has the MONOPOLY of test and misinformation | 04:17 |
| ryouma | who website says " * The right to health must be enjoyed without discrimination on the grounds of race, age, ethnicity or any other status. Non-discrimination and equality requires states to take steps to redress any discriminatory law, practice or policy. " | 04:18 |
| \n3p\ | MjrTom, it's illegal for citizens and PRIVATE doctors, hospitals and drugstores. The ultra-corrupt government of Mexico has the MONOPOLY of test and misinformation | 04:19 |
| MjrTom | Not even hospitals? So the govt somehow makes some determination on whom to test? | 04:20 |
| \n3p\ | MjrTom, No PRIVATE hospital in México can test for COVID, in fact test are PROHIBITED to import, sell, or use outside PUBLIC hospitals | 04:21 |
| MjrTom | Oh | 04:22 |
| MjrTom | That's really concerning | 04:22 |
| \n3p\ | MjrTom, but public hospitals don't have test and even PPE because the ultra-corrupt government cut budgets drastically | 04:23 |
| MjrTom | I guess there's going to be a lot of deaths at home that'll never be reported as cov19 deaths, too | 04:23 |
| MjrTom | Yeah I was reading a little about the public health budget cuts | 04:24 |
| \n3p\ | MjrTom, yes. Mexico is at high risk to be an humanitarian disaster. The president is an asshole!!!! | 04:24 |
| Toadisattva | I expect the cartels are probably moving PPE to the highest bidder? it's a very lucrative industry right now | 04:24 |
| \n3p\ | Toadisattva, could be. | 04:25 |
| MjrTom | Apparently at least the federal medical people are trying to do the best they can, but yeah that president is something else, and at least one governor - I can't remember the state, and at least one mayor (but I bet a lot) probably contributed to a lot of deaths | 04:27 |
| \n3p\ | MEXICO https://www.msn.com/es-us/news/other/eugenio-derbez-difunde-falta-de-insumos-m-c3-a9dicos-para-covid-19/vi-BB12CJli | 04:27 |
| \n3p\ | MjrTom, MD an personal of public health system are dying because they don't have PPE | 04:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:18 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live news: Frydenberg says Australia won't follow US lead and pull WHO funding – latest updates → https://is.gd/9WrVaZ | 04:29 |
| MjrTom | \n3p\: I think that if the people of Mexico are not sewing up masks, they should start to do so, at least for their own use. If MD people have NO masks, probably even a homemade one would be better than nothing. Maybe there are ways that the people of Mexico can mobilize to help in other ways too, but I'm not sure what they are | 04:32 |
| Toadisattva | I haven't heard much out of south and central America really how is this going down in places like guatemala and panama or columbia ecuador and peru? | 04:36 |
| \n3p\ | MjrTom, Mexico lockdown in 2009 because influenza A/H1N1. So people is "trained" and know the basic measures. Mask, wash hands and so on. That could help a lot. The government is USELESS | 04:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:51 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump suspends WHO funding as global deaths pass 125,000: US to investigate World Health Organization’s response to crisis; cases worldwide pass 1.97m; France summons Chinese envoy. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/zTr6YG | 04:57 |
| jester | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ | 05:04 |
| LjL | jester, at least link when it's actually passed 2m! if you really are counting | 05:07 |
| LjL | at least i assume that's why you're randomly linking it | 05:07 |
| ryouma | so has some geopolitical state been reached, or some cleaning up of legislative duties performed, or some planning done, that turns today into the let us search for scapegoats day? | 05:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:08 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: UN Secretary General says now is not time to reduce resources in fight against Covid-19 → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 05:11 |
| jester | https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ | 05:13 |
| ryouma | if this is as bad as teh scapegoating gtets, i will be ok with it. i am deeply concerned about scapegoating of disease groups, disability groups, and possibly geopolitical shifts toward scapegoating of traditional scapegoat targets (roma, jews, etc.) or even asians in some places. | 05:13 |
| ryouma | but the former are more serious and urgent at this time | 05:14 |
| \n3p\ | MEXICO | +74 deaths in last 24h. Yesterday +36. 100% increase. 406 deaths recognized by the corrupt government | 05:15 |
| \n3p\ | %covid mexico | 05:16 |
| Brainstorm | \n3p\: In all areas, Mexico, there are 5207 cases (0.0% of the population) and 369 deaths (7.1% of cases) as of 11 minutes ago. 37395 tests were performed (13.9% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 2.4% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 15.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Mexico for time series data. | 05:16 |
| \n3p\ | !corona mx | 05:16 |
| CoronaBot | Mexico: Global rank: #34, cases: 5,399 (+385), fatalities: 406 (+74), active cases: 2,868, total recovered: 2,125, in a serious condition: 207. Mortality: 7.52%, case fatality rate: 16.04%, cases/1M: 42.0, deaths/1M: 3.0. Case rate: 353/24h, death rate: 36/24h. Tests: 40,091, tests/1M: 311. | 05:16 |
| dunnp | ugh | 05:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:54 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live news: first person jailed for breaking quarantine as Frydenberg says WHO funding to continue – latest updates → https://is.gd/9WrVaZ | 06:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:10 UTC: 'It’s about leadership’: Ardern takes 20% pay cut over coronavirus – video: New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Ardern has announced she and her ministers along with public service CEOs will take a 20% pay cut for six months . ‘If there was ever a time to close the gap between different positions, it's now,’ [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/2td9OW | 06:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:28 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: UN Secretary General says now is not time to reduce resources in fight against Covid-19 → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 06:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 04:42 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Buongiorno a tutti, mentre eravate via → https://is.gd/TertDL | 06:43 |
| yuriwho | ty for the link LjL | 06:56 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: At 2020-04-15 01:54:28 UTC, LjL told you: surprise, "no treatment is shown to work", who'd've thought: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2764727 | 06:56 |
| yuriwho | IMO the WHO does a good job of sucking up to any country they need info from and adjusting the message to maximize cooperation from said countries with the goal of saving the most lives. However, they have a difficult situation managing the insanity of Chinese and US political leadership | 06:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:54 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump suspends WHO funding as global deaths pass 125,000: US to investigate World Health Organization’s response to crisis; cases worldwide pass 1.97m; France summons Chinese envoy. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/zTr6YG | 07:04 |
| yuriwho | also, I just posted a ton of useful links in ##coronavirus . ##coronalinks keeps a log of links | 07:07 |
| tinwhiskers | yuriwho: I agree with your assessment of the WHO situation. They have to play nice to be allowed to play at all. | 07:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 05:16 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Articolo in Italiano → https://is.gd/HIwviH | 07:18 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Hackers leak thousands of coronavirus research papers which were hidden behind paywalls (10674 votes) | https://redd.it/g1imo3 | 07:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:26 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump suspends WHO funding as global deaths pass 125,000: US to investigate World Health Organization’s response to crisis; cases worldwide pass 1.97m; France summons Chinese envoy. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/zTr6YG | 07:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:37 UTC: Australian media: Local content quotas suspended in $54m package for Australia's coronavirus-hit media → https://is.gd/TAwD3I | 07:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:54 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: UN Secretary General says now is not time to reduce resources in fight against Covid-19 → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 08:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 05:59 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: L’infermiera eroina quando salva le vite, poi offesa dai vicini al rientro a casa → https://is.gd/OVMRjt | 08:07 |
| Chromanin | %data Lebanon | 08:13 |
| Brainstorm | Chromanin: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 641 cases (0.0% of the population) and 21 deaths (3.3% of cases) as of 8 minutes ago. 16319 tests were performed (3.9% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data. | 08:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 06:13 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA → https://is.gd/56YB17 | 08:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 06:17 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Austria → https://is.gd/WCqsZC | 08:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:28 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Starmer calls on government to set out lockdown exit strategy → https://is.gd/Cf9Cou | 08:35 |
| truthr | n95 masks..that plastic thing in the middle. is that an exhalation valve? if so, does it filter the exhaled air? | 08:37 |
| tinwhiskers | truthr: no. they protect the wearer but do not protect other people if the wearer is infected. | 08:39 |
| truthr | tinwhiskers: oh..wow. ok thanks | 08:39 |
| truthr | so, hospital staff wearing those masks..it is to protect the hospital person only | 08:40 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, pretty much | 08:40 |
| tinwhiskers | I mean there will be some minimal protection to others. large droplets will probably still be caught. | 08:40 |
| tinwhiskers | but the smaller aerosols will just go out the vent | 08:41 |
| truthr | i see | 08:41 |
| tinwhiskers | better than nothing, eh? | 08:41 |
| truthr | i guess so yeah | 08:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:46 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump suspends WHO funding as global deaths pass 125,000: US to investigate World Health Organization’s response to crisis; cases worldwide pass 1.97m; France summons Chinese envoy. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/zTr6YG | 08:49 |
| englosh | So if people who recovered from the virus have antibodies and are immune, then why don't we just take some antibodies from a person who recovered and then clone those antibodies or something? Shouldn't be too hard right? | 08:50 |
| cYnIxX3 | there are plasma tests, but cloning is easier said than done. | 08:53 |
| cYnIxX3 | There are calls all over for those that have recovered from COVID to donate plasma https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/dlp/plasma-donations-from-recovered-covid-19-patients.html | 08:56 |
| tinwhiskers | englosh: yes, that's called convalescent plasma therapy and it works very well but doesn't scale very well at all. | 08:57 |
| tinwhiskers | englosh: there are already blood banks gearing up to receive plasma donations from recovered patients but before we can do that we need an antibody test to confirm who has the antibodies. PCR tests that you hear most about only tell if you if the virus is presently active. You can't tell people who had the disease but only had minor or no symptoms. | 08:58 |
| englosh | oh, probably because cloning them is quite slow and difficult | 08:58 |
| tinwhiskers | no, there is no cloning involved | 08:59 |
| tinwhiskers | If a person has good strong antibodies then a donation from a single person may be enough to treat a patient. | 08:59 |
| englosh | ah okay. And that won't make the donator less immune afterwards? | 09:00 |
| tinwhiskers | The process of separating the plasma, doing screening and various other things is a bit complicated and time consuming but the result is very good. | 09:00 |
| tinwhiskers | no, the donor has no negative effects other than those normally associated with giving blood. | 09:00 |
| tinwhiskers | it's the sort of thing you might expect rich people to get :-) | 09:01 |
| tinwhiskers | it probably doesn't really scale well to tens of thousands of people like drugs do. | 09:02 |
| englosh | hmm makes sense | 09:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:00 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Starmer calls on government to set out lockdown exit strategy → https://is.gd/Cf9Cou | 09:10 |
| l0ndoner | tinwhiskers: would certain blood types be better off than another IE I think im O+ which is a good percentage of population but there are other blood types a bit rarer so plasma therapy wouldn't be the whole answer | 09:15 |
| l0ndoner | or have I got that wrong? | 09:15 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, the same rules as blood donors apply | 09:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 07:07 UTC: Coronavirus: More tests promised for care homes: The health secretary pledges tests for all staff and residents with coronavirus symptoms. → https://is.gd/zUo2TY | 09:17 |
| cYnIxX3 | "plasma does not contain A or B antibodies and can be transfused safely to all blood types." https://professionaleducation.blood.ca/en/transfusion/publications/blood-basics | 09:18 |
| tinwhiskers | cYnIxX3: interesting, but when I was reading about using them for this purpose the blood type was still important | 09:21 |
| cYnIxX3 | I copied too little of the article, "People with type AB blood are universal plasma donors. Their [excert above]" | 09:22 |
| cYnIxX3 | tinwhiskers is right that Plasma transfusions are matched to avoid A and B antibodies in the transfused plasma that will attack the recipient’s red blood cells. | 09:23 |
| tinwhiskers | cYnIxX3: I'm not sure of the details | 09:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 07:20 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Mondo → https://is.gd/LGQ4nr | 09:24 |
| cYnIxX3 | It doesnt look the same as red blood cell transfusions. From what I am reading instead of O being universal AB is. | 09:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 07:24 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Turchia → https://is.gd/9KY3ES | 09:31 |
| tinwhiskers | cYnIxX3: ah. Ok | 09:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:30 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump suspends WHO funding as Denmark begins to reopen schools: US to investigate World Health Organization’s response to crisis; global cases pass 1.98m with 126,000 deaths; France summons Chinese envoy → https://is.gd/zTr6YG | 09:38 |
| aradesh | UK looks to have been in a fairly linear regime for the last week or so now | 09:39 |
| aradesh | which is good news | 09:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:40 UTC: Race for coronavirus vaccine 'is a global effort' for mankind — not just one country, Germany says: Finding a coronavirus vaccine is a collaborative effort, according to experts, but who gets priority when one is finally found could be controversial. → https://is.gd/YodOrm | 09:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:43 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Starmer calls on government to set out lockdown exit strategy → https://is.gd/Cf9Cou | 09:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:15 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: UN Secretary General says now is not time to reduce resources in fight against Covid-19 → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:27 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Società → https://is.gd/RKsgk4 | 10:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:32 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany could extend lockdown to May 3; Russia sees another jump in cases → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 10:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:33 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Starmer calls on government to set out lockdown exit strategy → https://is.gd/Cf9Cou | 10:42 |
| mefistofeles | hello | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 08:50 UTC: Coronavirus: More tests promised for care homes: The health secretary pledges tests for all staff and residents with coronavirus symptoms. → https://is.gd/zUo2TY | 10:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:06 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump suspends WHO funding as Denmark begins to reopen schools: US to investigate World Health Organization’s response to crisis; global cases pass 1.98m with 126,000 deaths; France summons Chinese envoy → https://is.gd/zTr6YG | 11:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:35 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany could extend lockdown to May 3; Russia sees another jump in cases → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 11:38 |
| mefistofeles | oh noes, extend lockdown :( | 11:41 |
| sneep | trump is crazy | 11:45 |
| sneep | (@ Trump suspends WHO funding) | 11:45 |
| sydfast | mefistofeles: don't you think lockdown is a good idea? | 11:46 |
| mefistofeles | sydfast: not for every region in Germany | 11:46 |
| mefistofeles | and not for some countries, which are acting up now | 11:46 |
| mefistofeles | Denmark and Austria, are two of them | 11:47 |
| sydfast | mefistofeles: but the virus is everywhere | 11:47 |
| mefistofeles | sydfast: yes and no, Germany is already slowing down and never got its hospitals saturaded | 11:47 |
| sydfast | also.. Germany never had a lockdown, we just have "contact limitations" | 11:47 |
| mefistofeles | Denmark and Austria and Iceland, stopped early | 11:47 |
| mefistofeles | same for NZ and Australia | 11:47 |
| mefistofeles | so it depends for every country/region | 11:48 |
| mefistofeles | sydfast: yes I know | 11:48 |
| mefistofeles | but still, I'd expect schools to open and such, in late april, as stated | 11:48 |
| mefistofeles | in some states, specially | 11:48 |
| sydfast | mefistofeles: I think it's not about saturation of hospitals - I don't want a hospital when I get covid19 | 11:49 |
| sydfast | what I want is not getting infected at all | 11:49 |
| sydfast | never | 11:50 |
| mefistofeles | sydfast: that won't happen unless we get a vaccine or a good treatment | 11:50 |
| mefistofeles | and even then, not guaranteed | 11:50 |
| sydfast | there are no long-term-survivors of covid19 so far | 11:50 |
| mefistofeles | so? | 11:51 |
| sydfast | I thing video-conferencing is good enough for schools and economy | 11:51 |
| sydfast | let's say for at least 20 years | 11:51 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 11:51 |
| mefistofeles | also the virus gets less lethal with time, this is common | 11:52 |
| mefistofeles | and it's already been seen for this one, specially in NYC | 11:53 |
| sydfast | I don't know if you're still laughing when your brain, liver and heart dissolves slowly over the years after the initial infection | 11:53 |
| mefistofeles | sydfast: that's not what happens or how the virus kills | 11:53 |
| sydfast | mefistofeles: you don't know that | 11:53 |
| mefistofeles | yes we do | 11:53 |
| sydfast | I disagree | 11:54 |
| sydfast | https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-10/coronavirus-infection-can-do-lasting-damage-to-the-heart-liver | 11:54 |
| mefistofeles | yes, of course for wors cases the whole body will be damage | 11:54 |
| mefistofeles | worst* | 11:55 |
| mefistofeles | that doesn't mean for all, actually it means most won't | 11:55 |
| mefistofeles | since most don't even get symptoms and the cytokine cascade doesn't happen so organs don't get affected | 11:55 |
| mefistofeles | I think also of these failure may be related to treatment, or lack thereof | 11:56 |
| mefistofeles | there has already been seen that hydroxychloroquine was used in many patients as treatment, but it's known that high concentrated dozes of it produces heart failures | 11:56 |
| mefistofeles | and so forth... | 11:56 |
| sydfast | there are so many indicators that this super-virus stays in the body and reactivates itself damaging organ after organ | 11:58 |
| sydfast | I hope there will be a worldwide lockdown for at least two decades | 11:59 |
| sydfast | there will be no vaccine | 11:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:56 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Unione Europea → https://is.gd/nQ44o9 | 11:59 |
| mefistofeles | super-virus? what'sthat? | 11:59 |
| Birosso | S-S-S-S-Super virus? | 12:00 |
| mefistofeles | sydfast: depends, treatment are quicker to get, if we get a good enough treatment the demand for vaccine can be lowered to none | 12:00 |
| sydfast | https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-new-coronavirus-research-shows-that-the-sars-cov-2-coronavirus-has-a-fourth-route-of-attacking-human-host-cells-making-it-a-real-super-virus | 12:00 |
| mefistofeles | there are already many promising candidates for treatment | 12:00 |
| mefistofeles | even the common omeprazol can be used as an additive to enhance treatment | 12:00 |
| sydfast | mefistofeles: I agree, medications are our only hope, besides a long-lasting lockdown | 12:01 |
| mefistofeles | sydfast: all those cite prepritns as sources, so, not conclusive | 12:01 |
| mefistofeles | preprints* | 12:01 |
| sydfast | but it will take years to produce enough | 12:01 |
| mefistofeles | we have already seen dozens of preprints articles being rejected and later retracted by authors | 12:02 |
| sydfast | ofc you can hope people won't loose their health or their life | 12:04 |
| sydfast | but negligent mayhem is still mayhem | 12:05 |
| mefistofeles | anyways, lockdown measurements won't stay for too long, that's for sure | 12:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:01 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany could extend lockdown to May 3; Russia sees another jump in cases → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 12:06 |
| mefistofeles | but that depends on many local conditions | 12:06 |
| mefistofeles | so it varies a lot for every city/country | 12:06 |
| sneep | sydfast: I think you're being silly | 12:09 |
| sneep | A small number of cases with complications doesn't mean anything | 12:09 |
| mefistofeles | yes, specially consiered that the actual real cases are much much more, orders of magnitude above the reported | 12:09 |
| sneep | The original SARS had lasting effects in a small percentage of survivors | 12:10 |
| mefistofeles | *considering | 12:10 |
| mefistofeles | sneep: the original SARS was also more lethal | 12:10 |
| sneep | Indeed | 12:10 |
| sneep | sydfast: The virus might cause people to spontaneously combust after 10 years, we don't know that | 12:12 |
| mefistofeles | the virus might make us all superman and immune to every disease known and to be known | 12:12 |
| sneep | That would be pretty neat | 12:12 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, there's no point on thinking about these things | 12:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:07 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Lombardia → https://is.gd/vus4LN | 12:13 |
| sydfast | hehe I like the superman thesis, still I think it's currently worth waiting for a bit more research, while keeping the amount of infections minimal | 12:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 10:15 UTC: Coronavirus: More tests promised for care homes: The health secretary pledges tests for all staff and residents with coronavirus symptoms. → https://is.gd/zUo2TY | 12:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:26 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Starmer calls on government to set out lockdown exit strategy → https://is.gd/Cf9Cou | 12:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany could extend lockdown to May 3; Russia sees another jump in cases → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 12:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 10:45 UTC: Covid2019: COVID-19, coronavirus case at a McDonald's leads to OSHA complaint → https://is.gd/MUBR0q | 12:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:57 UTC: (news): California Gov. Gavin Newsom unveils guide to lifting state's coronavirus restrictions → https://is.gd/Q23bKR | 13:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany could extend lockdown to May 3; Russia sees another jump in cases → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 13:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:21 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA → https://is.gd/ZGWsQ8 | 13:23 |
| Jigsy | %cases world | 13:26 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.0 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 128619 deaths (6.4% of cases) as of 5 minutes ago. 16.1 million tests were performed (12.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 13:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:26 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Keir Starmer calls on government to set out lockdown exit strategy → https://is.gd/Cf9Cou | 13:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:34 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany could extend lockdown to May 3; Denmark reopens some schools → https://is.gd/xAAGFu | 13:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:38 UTC: Spain's jobless rate is set to surge much more than in countries like Italy: Spain and Italy may have both been hit hard by the coronavirus pandemic, but it's the former that could see a greater impact on its workforce, according to the International Monetary Fund. → https://is.gd/0g7p6z | 13:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:39 UTC: UK coronavirus live: third of all deaths in Scotland last week attributed to Covid-19: Keir Starmer calls on government to set out lockdown exit strategy; government promises tests for people in care homes with symptoms → https://is.gd/Cf9Cou | 13:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:46 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: WHO recommends restricting alcohol; Spain's daily death toll falls → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 13:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 11:59 UTC: Coronavirus: More tests promised for care homes: The health secretary pledges tests for all staff and residents with coronavirus symptoms. → https://is.gd/zUo2TY | 14:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: WHO recommends restricting alcohol; Spain's daily death toll falls → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 14:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:16 UTC: UK coronavirus live: third of all deaths in Scotland last week attributed to Covid-19: Keir Starmer calls on government to set out lockdown exit strategy; schools in Wales to stay closed after Easter; government promises tests for people in care homes with symptoms → https://is.gd/Cf9Cou | 14:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:24 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/uNK1kP | 14:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:34 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: WHO recommends restricting alcohol, Spain's daily death toll falls → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 14:41 |
| \n3p\ | Ricky Gervais Rips Wealthy Celebs Complaining About Quarantine While Living ‘In a Mansion with a Swimming Pool’ https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/11390213/ricky-gervais-celebs-complaning-nhs-heroes-die/ | 14:55 |
| mefistofeles | \n3p\: haha ++ | 15:03 |
| \n3p\ | US | -8.7% retail sales. Oil WTI $19.70 | 15:06 |
| ecov | social media is poison | 15:21 |
| iz | floor is lava | 15:23 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: schools are not openeing in april, no way. | 15:25 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: some countries are already opening them, but yeah, not likely, we'll see tonight what they say | 15:26 |
| Hullo1 | Hello | 15:27 |
| mefistofeles | Hullo1: hey | 15:29 |
| iz | california went ahead and already said mass gatherings probably won't happen until there is a vaccine or we have achieved herd immunity | 15:29 |
| iz | like sporting events won't have audiences | 15:29 |
| Hullo1 | Vaccines are still some months away | 15:30 |
| iz | yeah | 15:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:29 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Danimarca → https://is.gd/0eiSAs | 15:30 |
| Hullo1 | Good thing is there are multiple vaccines in trial phases across the world | 15:30 |
| iz | like looking far into this year and next even | 15:30 |
| iz | yeah, it's still like about a year or so out though | 15:30 |
| iz | %cases | 15:32 |
| Brainstorm | iz: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.0 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 129114 deaths (6.4% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 16.2 million tests were performed (12.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 15:32 |
| iz | 2 million | 15:32 |
| Hullo1 | %India | 15:34 |
| Hullo1 | %cases India | 15:34 |
| Brainstorm | Hullo1: In all areas, India, there are 11744 cases (0.0% of the population) and 395 deaths (3.4% of cases) as of 14 minutes ago. 229426 tests were performed (5.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data. | 15:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:37 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Economia → https://is.gd/Rf6Kpy | 15:37 |
| \n3p\ | US is paralleling vaccine test and mass production so when they get approved there will be ready in the market and health system. | 15:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica at 13:38 UTC: Policy: FDA fast-tracks COVID-19 tests, but it’s unclear how accurate they are → https://is.gd/Gswe12 | 15:44 |
| davros | whats the consensus on probability of a vaccine actually working | 15:44 |
| \n3p\ | To early to know. | 15:44 |
| davros | its not like "it's guaranteed to work, just time..", there's a chance it wont be possible to make a vaccine, right | 15:45 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <davros "whats the consensus on probabil"> Why shouldnt it work? | 15:45 |
| davros | there are viruses that defy vaccines | 15:46 |
| \n3p\ | There are a lot of countries and labs working on a vaccine for COVID-19. Israel announces a potential vaccine for September. | 15:46 |
| davros | there's no vaccine for the common cold | 15:46 |
| davros | thats a range of viruses right | 15:46 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <davros "thats a range of viruses right"> No its bacteria. | 15:47 |
| \n3p\ | davros, But there are vaccines for seasonal influenza | 15:47 |
| davros | the common cold is viruses | 15:47 |
| davros | "rhinovirus" and other coronaviruses , not the "novel" one | 15:48 |
| davros | thats making me nervous about all this vaccine optimisim | 15:48 |
| sternenmusik[m] | And? | 15:50 |
| \n3p\ | davros, There some vaccines already in testing fase. So the scientist think they could make at least one. | 15:50 |
| davros | "And?" ... well. i was asking, this is a channel, you see, for discussing covid .... | 15:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 13:48 UTC: Coronavirus: More tests promised for care homes: Care providers welcome the pledge but predict a "major challenge" amid outbreaks at more than 2,000 homes. → https://is.gd/zUo2TY | 15:51 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Everyone seems to be a specialist now especially in the US. | 15:53 |
| \n3p\ | Therapeutics are improving. Mortality rate is declining. Plasma and antibodies are more common each day because there near a 1 million recovered | 15:53 |
| yuriwho | the vaccine work has just begun and will likely continue to iteratively improve over 20 years. There are >50 vaccine efforts in progress and ~4 in human trials | 15:53 |
| yuriwho | also, ~20% of common colds are caused by 2 types of coronaviruses. To my knowledge no one has even tried to make a vaccine for those | 15:55 |
| yuriwho | yes, some viruses have evaded vaccines like the AIDS virus.... work is still ongoing on that | 15:56 |
| l0ndoner | covid-19 and Aids protein slit and or tear at same rate so maybe hope with Aids vaccine? | 15:57 |
| l0ndoner | split* | 15:57 |
| yuriwho | yes, there is hope for an AIDS vaccine still | 15:57 |
| yuriwho | afk work | 15:57 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Stupid comment | 15:58 |
| yuriwho | ? | 15:58 |
| ecov | so whats up with Michigan going full draconian lockdown | 15:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:54 UTC: Abbott announces new coronavirus antibody test that could do up to 20 million screenings in June: Abbott said it plans to distribute 4 million of the new tests by the end of this month, after an initial shipment of 1 million tests this week to U.S. customers. → https://is.gd/M5AMWt | 15:58 |
| \n3p\ | The deadlier the virus the bigger the investments to make a vaccine. Capitalism works! This virus kills the rich so vaccine will be a reality pretty soon. | 15:58 |
| davros | everyone should be locked down until we get masks,tests,contact tracing sorted IMO | 15:58 |
| yuriwho | ^ | 15:58 |
| ecov | of course \n3p\ you have to preserve the job creators, the smart people | 15:59 |
| l0ndoner | france lifting some lockdown measures? | 15:59 |
| sternenmusik[m] | MERS was 20 times deadlier. | 15:59 |
| davros | deadlier is the wrong word here | 15:59 |
| davros | its the combination of lethality X reach | 16:00 |
| sternenmusik[m] | MERS killed in 30-40%, Covid19 2,3%. | 16:00 |
| davros | coronavirus is in a sweetspot for maximum disruption | 16:00 |
| davros | we underestimated it because it wasn't looking so lethal | 16:00 |
| davros | but it made up for it with reach | 16:01 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Agree. | 16:01 |
| \n3p\ | ecov, that is true. I like and respect meritocracy and successful business. | 16:01 |
| davros | honestly when i saw it.. i was thinking "ok no travel to asia..", I was genuinely suprised when it blew up in europe | 16:02 |
| MinceR | maybe it's enough for SARS-CoV-2 and MERS-CoV to infect the same one human for a new strain with both problems to emerge | 16:02 |
| davros | ^^ yeah | 16:02 |
| davros | similar retorts to anyone who dismisses this | 16:02 |
| davros | the further it gets the bigger the chance of something like that happening | 16:02 |
| davros | due to our numbers (4x in 100 years) we are on a knife edge susceptible to it | 16:03 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Every year half a million children under 5 years old die from Rotavirus and no ones cares. | 16:03 |
| \n3p\ | They are not bankers | 16:04 |
| davros | neither bankers nor consumers | 16:06 |
| davros | nor workers | 16:06 |
| \n3p\ | no voters | 16:07 |
| l0ndoner | ‘I’m not a doctor, but—’ Trump keeps giving his medical opinion to the American people and the consequences could be deadly | 16:11 |
| davros | his supporters are unphased | 16:11 |
| davros | he knows his audience | 16:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:08 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: WHO recommends restricting alcohol, Spain's daily death toll falls → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 16:12 |
| \n3p\ | l0ndoner, at least 3 people have saved their life thanks to Trump M.D. Nobody have die for use of HCQ | 16:13 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: except the people that have | 16:15 |
| bin_bash | but hey, darwin awards | 16:15 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, if that were true Clowns News Network will be saying it 24/7 until November 2020 | 16:16 |
| bin_bash | wat | 16:16 |
| bin_bash | this idiot used to exist: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/24/coronavirus-chloroquine-poisoning-death/ | 16:17 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, that is lie. Fake news media WAPO. Aquarium cleaner IS NOT HCQ | 16:19 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, by the way, that asshole was a DEMOCRAT DONOR | 16:20 |
| bin_bash | lol | 16:23 |
| bin_bash | as if I care which duimbfuck political party he donates to | 16:24 |
| bin_bash | (protip: i genuinely could not care less) | 16:24 |
| \n3p\ | Trump approval on COVID-19 60%. MSM approval 44% (GALLUP poll) | 16:25 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: i can tell you've never actually met trump or been in a position to do business with him | 16:25 |
| bin_bash | it's clear by the fact that you're completely oblivious to his truly retarded nature that was well-known long before this | 16:25 |
| bin_bash | the man has 1 skill: marketing himself. | 16:25 |
| bin_bash | in fact he's so unintelligent that his presidency could have been an inspirational story if he wasn't so insufferable | 16:26 |
| dTal | +1 bin_bash for making me smile | 16:26 |
| dTal | a rare feat when it comes to Trump | 16:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:23 UTC: /u/slakmehl: NPR Choice page → https://is.gd/wHjGOa | 16:26 |
| \n3p\ | Trump is so "stupid" that all MSM, Hollywood, DNC, RNC lost their minds and lost 2016 election. | 16:28 |
| MinceR | he's almost as stupid as his supporters | 16:28 |
| dTal | \n3p\ is a confirmed trumper | 16:28 |
| \n3p\ | Some people never learn from experience. He will landslide in Nov 2020 | 16:28 |
| dTal | there's no point arguing with them | 16:28 |
| \n3p\ | Yes. I'm 100% trumper. The man is the best President of the USA since Lincoln | 16:29 |
| dTal | oh god I'm in stiches, keep going | 16:30 |
| bin_bash | HAHAHAHAHAHA | 16:31 |
| bin_bash | the best president since the last president to lynch reporters | 16:31 |
| bin_bash | holy fuck | 16:31 |
| bin_bash | thank goodness i was not drinking water in that moment | 16:31 |
| dTal | don't interrupt him I wanna hear more | 16:31 |
| kPa | Honestly though the media on both the left and the right have both totally lost it | 16:31 |
| LjL | is Trump speaking again? | 16:32 |
| bin_bash | kPa: who are yo to be serious in this time of jest?! :P | 16:32 |
| \n3p\ | Reporters lie everyday. That's why their ratings are plummeting | 16:32 |
| bin_bash | https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/ | 16:33 |
| bin_bash | i don't expect you to understand what this actually says | 16:33 |
| ecov | \n3p\: have you been watching the presidents press conferences? | 16:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 14:30 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Beware: US Banks authorized to grab coronavirus stimulus checks off their customers → https://is.gd/OslVek | 16:33 |
| ecov | the reporters are braindead | 16:33 |
| bin_bash | fuck sorry i just can't hear you over my money printer BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR | 16:34 |
| kPa | bin_bash: okay Jerome | 16:34 |
| bin_bash | https://money.brr | 16:34 |
| bin_bash | https://brr.money | 16:35 |
| bin_bash | brr is not a tld yet | 16:35 |
| bin_bash | sad! | 16:35 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: dont @ me bro | 16:37 |
| MinceR | that means you can buy brr and run it as your own TLD | 16:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:36 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Bill Gates calls Trump's WHO decision 'dangerous,' Abbott's debuts antibody test → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 16:40 |
| bin_bash | eh not worth it | 16:41 |
| lance0000 | Hopefully the Abbott test is enough to get sports back on television with no crowds. | 16:41 |
| bin_bash | lol | 16:41 |
| lance0000 | :) | 16:42 |
| ecov | I dont know I'm enjoying all the old archived sports being shown | 16:42 |
| ecov | yesterday they had a Tyson marathon on | 16:42 |
| lance0000 | I've been watching old Wrestlemanias | 16:42 |
| MinceR | Tyson speedruns of Doom? :> | 16:42 |
| bin_bash | that's not a sport | 16:42 |
| ecov | lol | 16:42 |
| lance0000 | ha | 16:43 |
| ubLIX | what is the Abbot test? | 16:43 |
| lance0000 | 15 minutes spit swab | 16:43 |
| ecov | if you have to ask.... | 16:43 |
| ubLIX | cmon man, don't make me google | 16:43 |
| ubLIX | oh, scroll much, lol | 16:44 |
| lance0000 | NFL games will have synthetic crowd noise from a phone app | 16:44 |
| ecov | odd | 16:44 |
| ecov | the crowd plays such a big role in some sports, this is going to be weird | 16:45 |
| davros | CGI crowd :) | 16:45 |
| bin_bash | it's gonna be pretty gay | 16:45 |
| lance0000 | Minnesota Vikings can finally win a SB by taking advantage of it :) | 16:45 |
| davros | or telepresence bot crowd - rows of ipads on stands | 16:46 |
| dTal | interesting. Latency would screw up chanting dynamics | 16:46 |
| lance0000 | I have to apologize for 2020. It is my fault. After I ordered tickets for Rammstein, I said "2020 is going to be so lit!" | 16:46 |
| davros | "lit", thats when they start firebombing infected cities | 16:47 |
| lance0000 | ha. wow. | 16:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:51 UTC: UK coronavirus live: hospital death toll rises by 761 to reach 12,868: Keir Starmer calls on government to set out lockdown exit strategy; third of all deaths in Scotland last week attributed to Covid-19 → https://is.gd/Cf9Cou | 16:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:54 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Bill Gates calls Trump's WHO decision 'dangerous,' Abbott's debuts antibody test → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 17:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 15:04 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: 'Operation Gridlock' rally planned in response to emergency order extension → https://is.gd/bAgtBF | 17:08 |
| pyna | NFL games will be witnessed by billions of tartigrades | 17:14 |
| \n3p\ | The myth of European health care systems. Deaths per 1M: 1) Spain 386 2) Belgium 364 3) Italy 349 4) France 235 5) UK 182 6) Netherlands 171 7) Switzerland 138 8) Luxembourg 114 9) Sweden 101 10) Ireland 84 | 17:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:12 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Bill Gates calls Trump's WHO decision 'dangerous,' Abbott's debuts antibody test → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 17:15 |
| \n3p\ | Europe has the worst mortality rate of the world. | 17:16 |
| \n3p\ | Data from https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/ | 17:16 |
| tiago | you can't compare numbers like that | 17:17 |
| tiago | as each country has a different accounting method | 17:17 |
| \n3p\ | deaths are deaths and population is a known number | 17:17 |
| MinceR | deaths can be ascribed to various causes, which varies by country | 17:18 |
| LjL | deaths may be the most reliable number we have; but, no, it is not *really* reliable. | 17:18 |
| tiago | also, why did you ignore some large european countries that are doing better? | 17:18 |
| LjL | not at all. | 17:18 |
| tiago | germany has 39 | 17:18 |
| LjL | whether a death is counted as a COVID-19 death varies widely over countries | 17:18 |
| MinceR | it's especially easy to hide deaths if the country has a policy of avoiding testing like the plague (e.g. hungary) | 17:18 |
| MinceR | "eh, they just died of pneumonia, who knows what caused it" | 17:18 |
| \n3p\ | MinceR, yes that is true. Like Mexico or SPAIN | 17:19 |
| dTal | All-cause mortality at least should be fairly reliable | 17:19 |
| tiago | you'll be able to have a better number by comparing total deaths with previous years | 17:19 |
| dzho | yes | 17:19 |
| MinceR | i thought you'd prefer the north korean way | 17:19 |
| MinceR | no infected, all deaths were caused by gunshot wounds, no problem | 17:19 |
| tiago | san marino has 1000 deaths per 1M! they must have a terrible health system ;) | 17:20 |
| dTal | we are reaching the point where the *total* death rate is now higher than this time of year at previous years, which is a pretty good rough proxy indicator of covid deaths | 17:20 |
| tiago | I saw a nice chart for that in Portugal, I'll see if I can find it | 17:21 |
| \n3p\ | MinceR, No. I prefer the freedom of USA where you can get the health plan you want. No the socialist health system that kills you in the EU | 17:21 |
| tiago | here https://twitter.com/duartep84/status/1247860905934819328 | 17:21 |
| MinceR | ah yes, the freedom to die | 17:22 |
| MinceR | i fully support that | 17:22 |
| tiago | \n3p\ the one you want, or the one you can afford? | 17:22 |
| MinceR | usa #1! | 17:22 |
| tiago | "just stop being poor and you'll have great care!" | 17:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 15:21 UTC: CoronavirusGLOBAL: Do Ventilators Save Coronavirus (COVID-19) Patient's Lives? → https://is.gd/EvUyPb | 17:22 |
| dTal | 6000 people died of Covid-19 last week in the UK | 17:23 |
| tiago | also, you're implying there's some magical "great care" that's better than ventilators and paracetamol, that's being given in most european countries | 17:23 |
| tiago | you can have the most right-wing health system possible, that you'll still have a finite number of ventilators in your country | 17:23 |
| tiago | if you run out, you're fuckd | 17:23 |
| dzho | you're pretty well fucked if you're on a ventilator anyway | 17:24 |
| tiago | that's what's killing people in italy and spain, it's not honest to blame a public health system | 17:24 |
| \n3p\ | tiago, you are wrong. USA 77 deaths per million | 17:24 |
| tiago | USA is huge | 17:24 |
| tiago | you must think of it as a ton of small countries | 17:25 |
| MinceR | yuge! | 17:25 |
| tiago | if you're going to compare USA numbers, you must compare with whole Europe | 17:25 |
| dzho | whatever "whole Europe" means these days | 17:25 |
| tiago | yep | 17:25 |
| dTal | actually this is quite interesting | 17:25 |
| tiago | the numbers are not comparable between countries | 17:25 |
| tiago | as population density affects this a lot | 17:25 |
| dTal | the official numbers for the week ending in April 3rd in the UK are 2846 deaths | 17:25 |
| tiago | you can't compare empty USA with a lot of distant cities with central europe | 17:26 |
| tiago | disease spreads a lot faster when people are everywhere | 17:26 |
| tiago | just look at new york | 17:26 |
| dTal | the actual statistically abnormal death rate for that week indicates 6000 deaths | 17:26 |
| dTal | so the death reporting rate in the UK is only about 50% | 17:26 |
| ubLIX | same story all over, dTal | 17:26 |
| tiago | from your source https://i.imgur.com/pA7AOQH.png | 17:27 |
| ubLIX | across many countries, i mean | 17:27 |
| tiago | new york state has almost 20 million people! that's twice my country and it has 556 deaths per million, we have 55 with a poor public health system, in Portugal | 17:28 |
| MinceR | how do population densities compare? | 17:28 |
| lance0000 | Comparing deaths between countries is frivolous. There are too many life factors to consider. | 17:29 |
| tiago | new york state is denser | 17:29 |
| tiago | lance0000, agreed, was pointing out why his argument was flawed even ignoring most things | 17:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: 60% of firms cut job openings in March, Abbott Labs debuts antibody test → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 17:29 |
| tiago | deaths are not directly related to total population | 17:30 |
| tiago | you'll have certain spots where disease is actively spreading | 17:30 |
| tiago | way smaller than your country | 17:30 |
| tiago | you could compare those death/1M values if deaths were uniform along the entire country | 17:30 |
| tiago | not varying wildly between towns | 17:30 |
| tiago | you can do that for cancer rates, maybe | 17:31 |
| tiago | after compensating for demographics | 17:31 |
| tiago | it's just dishonest to do it for something like an infectious disease | 17:31 |
| \n3p\ | tiago, then how you evaluate what health systems are doing a good job? | 17:32 |
| tiago | I don't know what the fairest way is, but death % in ICU bed per hospital would be better | 17:33 |
| davros | tiago agree | 17:33 |
| davros | they should quote death rates for regions (like new york, london etc) | 17:33 |
| davros | the USA is too big to lump together | 17:33 |
| tiago | you know we also have private hospitals in europe | 17:33 |
| tiago | usually the complicated cases are redirected to public hospitals as they're way better equipped | 17:34 |
| davros | the USA has low deaths per million because overall its very sparse | 17:34 |
| davros | but the hotspots are just as bad as anywhere else | 17:34 |
| \n3p\ | tiago, then how you compare live expectancy. It's unfair because depends in so many factors | 17:35 |
| tiago | portuguese countryside, which is WAY poorer and has WAY shittier hospitals than the cities, has 0 deaths so far | 17:35 |
| tiago | \n3p\ I don't get your point | 17:35 |
| tiago | it doesn't matter if those factors aren't dependent on the health system, but on other differences between countries | 17:36 |
| tiago | if you want to attack the health system, then you have to measure at the health providers | 17:36 |
| \n3p\ | tiago, you are the best argument to cut funding to WHO. I life and death depend in so many differences and variables so WHO are useless | 17:36 |
| tiago | total population means jack | 17:36 |
| tiago | ? | 17:36 |
| tiago | there's universal things | 17:36 |
| tiago | social distancing works anywhere, some places just have it by default | 17:36 |
| VaccinesCausedIt | Is this a mostly free speech room or are there restrictions on certain political and medical views? | 17:38 |
| VaccinesCausedIt | Can I say that Bill Gates is involved in creating this COVID19 situation? | 17:38 |
| davros | you can aand we can laugh at you | 17:39 |
| VaccinesCausedIt | all right | 17:39 |
| davros | bill gates was trying to warn about it | 17:39 |
| \n3p\ | Migrate from big cities to the rural areas. You get less infections deceases. Montana should have a better life expectancy than NYC according tiago argument | 17:39 |
| VaccinesCausedIt | The COVID19 pandemic is pretty much a complete hoax here in the USA. Nobody is sick, and they're calling normal deaths COVID19 deaths. | 17:39 |
| davros | lol | 17:39 |
| tiago | \n3p\ come on. I'm talking about infectious disease obviously | 17:40 |
| tiago | rural areas have social distancing by default | 17:40 |
| VaccinesCausedIt | They're making a big media scene in New York City | 17:40 |
| tiago | and as such have less deaths from coronavirus | 17:40 |
| ecov | VaccinesCausedIt found a source of attention | 17:40 |
| davros | new york is a hotspot | 17:40 |
| davros | in the UK our deaths are 40% above normal | 17:40 |
| davros | without measures everywhere would become a hotspot | 17:40 |
| davros | in the worst hit part of italy the local deathrate was 300% normal | 17:41 |
| \n3p\ | tiago, i get your point. And agree to some extent. But I need a method to compare which countries are doing better than others. | 17:41 |
| mefistofeles | best method is the minute physics visualization, covidtrend or something, it's there in the topic url | 17:41 |
| mefistofeles | well, best method that I know of xD | 17:42 |
| tiago | I already gave you a better method, look at ICU death % | 17:42 |
| tiago | or case death mortality | 17:43 |
| tiago | or case mortality | 17:43 |
| \n3p\ | tiago, you are near Spain (386). The WORST country of the world against COVID-19 but you only have 55. 14% of their deaths. | 17:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:39 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: La conferenza stampa della protezione civile inizierà alle 18 → https://is.gd/FAQcIY | 17:43 |
| \n3p\ | tiago, for me that is a clear indicator that PT have a better health system than ES | 17:44 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Representatives Tim Ryan and Ro Khanna Introduce Legislation to Send Americans Additional Cash Payments ($2000/month) (10417 votes) | https://redd.it/g1r3ck | 17:44 |
| tiago | We don't, though | 17:44 |
| tiago | theirs is much better in almost all aspects | 17:44 |
| tiago | they just had a lot more initial infections which led to a system collapse | 17:45 |
| tiago | got the virus earlier | 17:45 |
| tiago | we did widespread social isolation at less than 100 deaths, because we learned with Italy and Spain | 17:45 |
| \n3p\ | tiago, all that is the RESULT of a BETTER health system. If Sanchez did stupid things that meas that their system is worst | 17:47 |
| tiago | it has nothing to do with the health system, it had to do with decision timing | 17:48 |
| \n3p\ | tiago and that's because a better health system that ALERTS ON TIME | 17:49 |
| l0ndoner | \n3p\: your health system coping? | 17:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:45 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: 60% of firms cut job openings in March, Abbott Labs debuts antibody test → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 17:50 |
| \n3p\ | l0ndoner, My? I'm far far far away from physicians that is why I'm very healthy | 17:51 |
| l0ndoner | how is your health system coping... I.E similar to NHS | 17:52 |
| \n3p\ | l0ndoner, Mexican health system is totally crap. They don't even have PPE. More than 90 infected INSIDE hospitals | 17:53 |
| \n3p\ | At least 1 hospital director death. | 17:54 |
| \n3p\ | l0ndoner, https://www.infobae.com/america/mexico/ | 17:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:02 UTC: WHO 'regrets' Trump's decision to withhold funding, says focus is on saving lives in coronavirus pandemic: The World Health Organization is turning to other countries to help fill any gaps in financing its Covid-19 response work after Trump said the U.S. would withhold contributions. → https://is.gd/T3Qe3f | 18:04 |
| \n3p\ | lol | 18:05 |
| \n3p\ | "the focus is on saving lives" that is why they were against travel bans and lie about China | 18:06 |
| explore | hi | 18:10 |
| \n3p\ | Abbott Laboratories Will Ship One Million Coronavirus Antibody Blood Tests This Week https://abbott.mediaroom.com/2020-04-15-Abbott-Launches-Third-COVID-19-Test-a-Laboratory-Based-Antibody-Blood-Test-That-Will-Ship-in-the-U-S-Starting-Tomorrow | 18:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 16:09 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Correlazione 5G e Covid19? Ma ci si può proteggere! #COVID2019italia #COVID19 #StayHome #covid_19italia #Animalifantastici → https://is.gd/DVBeln | 18:11 |
| l0ndoner | UK is over the hump | 18:14 |
| lance0000 | DOWJ taking a shit today | 18:15 |
| lance0000 | I should be able to retire at age 94 | 18:16 |
| Jigsy | I can still go to the store and buy something to drink, right? | 18:17 |
| Jigsy | Getting tired of drinking coffee. | 18:17 |
| l0ndoner | jigsy if you want to die queuing to get a drink I'm sure you still able | 18:18 |
| lance0000 | Wear a mask, wash your hands, hand santizie on way in and out and you'll be fine. | 18:18 |
| Jigsy | I don't have a mask. | 18:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:11 UTC: New York City struggles to get accurate coronavirus fatality count as more people die at home: The New York City Department of Health estimates that there have been 3,778 probable Covid-19 deaths since March 11 that were originally left out of its official fatality count. → https://is.gd/OIGiyO | 18:18 |
| Jigsy | I haven't even left the house in two weeks. | 18:19 |
| lance0000 | make one outta an old tshirt | 18:19 |
| l0ndoner | wear a tshirt over mouth nose | 18:19 |
| l0ndoner | Jigsy: not even for excersis? | 18:19 |
| Shock | Jigsy: you can find videos on how to make masks on masks4all.org | 18:19 |
| l0ndoner | excersise | 18:19 |
| Jigsy | Exercise is bad for you. | 18:20 |
| Jigsy | I base this on the numerous people who have heart attacks whilst jogging and stuff. | 18:20 |
| lance0000 | Exercise boosts immune system response | 18:20 |
| \n3p\ | Exercise kills more people than COVID-19 | 18:20 |
| lance0000 | Well so does smoking | 18:21 |
| Jigsy | If it was good for you, it wouldn't kill you. | 18:21 |
| Jigsy | https://i.imgur.com/PuNOnzv.jpg | 18:21 |
| \n3p\ | This is getting crazier everyday | 18:22 |
| \n3p\ | Politicians are worse than viruses. | 18:23 |
| lance0000 | true | 18:23 |
| Jigsy | Guess I shaved for nothing... | 18:24 |
| explore | Jigsy: i am okay with drinks, i got decaf, 1% or 3.25% milk, Lipton Yelloe Label Tea which can be made into hong kong chilled tea in a cinch, and juice concentrates that flavors water, also SodaStream | 18:25 |
| explore | sometimes i go and buy a couple dozen A&W root beer | 18:25 |
| lance0000 | Are you taking Vitamin-D while cooped up inside Jigsy? | 18:25 |
| explore | i try to drink boiled water as much as possible | 18:25 |
| explore | lance0000: isn't vitamin-D supposely helpful with absorbing other vitamins? | 18:25 |
| \n3p\ | decaf must be illegal. That is fake coffee | 18:25 |
| explore | i went looking for it yesterday | 18:25 |
| explore | \n3p\: :) | 18:25 |
| explore | true but smells nice :) | 18:26 |
| Shock | !covid sweden | 18:26 |
| CoronaBot | Sweden: Global rank: #20, cases: 11,927 (+482), fatalities: 1,203 (+170), active cases: 10,343, total recovered: 381, in a serious condition: 954. Mortality: 10.09%, case fatality rate: 75.95%, cases/1M: 1181.0, deaths/1M: 119.0. Case rate: 497/24h, death rate: 114/24h. Tests: 74,600, tests/1M: 7,387. | 18:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 16:24 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Germany could ease restrictions on retail sector from April 20 - sources - Reuters → https://is.gd/nvUZzW | 18:26 |
| lf94 | Man the world is so eager to let loose | 18:26 |
| lf94 | When the reality is, we let loose, we're back to day 0 | 18:26 |
| Shock | I miss being able to get massage :( | 18:27 |
| Shock | or a haircut | 18:27 |
| explore | lf94: yeah could be back to day 0, but worse cus we are lulled into thinking we are actually prepared when perhaps not as prepared as we think | 18:27 |
| lf94 | Yep | 18:28 |
| lf94 | Imagine, a lot of places were only in isolation for 2 weeks, others +1 month. | 18:28 |
| davros | i was expecting 3months . then a pause . then a second wave and another 3 months | 18:29 |
| explore | Jigsy: as long as you boil as much drink as possible probably safest yo | 18:29 |
| explore | man when even a pint of icecream becomes russian roulette, this covid-19 casino i do not want | 18:30 |
| Jigsy | Thankfully I'm not worried about haircuts. | 18:30 |
| Jigsy | Hopefully I won't be going four+ months without one. | 18:31 |
| Jigsy | I can manage three, but after that... | 18:31 |
| explore | i can't recognize these reminders Siri wrote down for us | 18:31 |
| explore | "Buy some ibex" "buy some masks for my ice" | 18:32 |
| explore | whad the heck did i tell Siri? | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:27 UTC: WHO 'regrets' Trump's decision to withhold funding, says focus is on saving lives in coronavirus pandemic: The World Health Organization is turning to other countries to help fill any gaps in financing its Covid-19 response work after Trump said the U.S. would withhold contributions. → https://is.gd/T3Qe3f | 18:33 |
| LjL | Italy's daily Civil Protection press conference starting now at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOKRldnHsZk and I will take notes as usual. | 18:42 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Good evening. Thanks to our LIS interpreter, and prof. Ranieri Guerra, who represents the WHO. | 18:43 |
| LjL | 105418 people are currently positive, +1127. | 18:43 |
| LjL | Hospital pressure keeps going down: we have 3079 people in ICU, -107, while those hospitalized with symptoms are 27643, -368. | 18:44 |
| LjL | Most positives are self-isolating, 74696 (71%). | 18:44 |
| LjL | Unfortunately we have +578 deaths. | 18:44 |
| LjL | Total recoveries are 38092, +962. | 18:45 |
| LjL | 12118 volunteers are working with us today, together with the armed forces etc. | 18:45 |
| MinceR | lol @ siri | 18:45 |
| LjL | Pre-triage tents are 835, and 151 are in prisons. | 18:45 |
| LjL | we have 125 million euro in donation, of which more than 31 million have already been spent for PPEs and ventilators. | 18:46 |
| LjL | Tomorrow the third medical task force will be leaving, 71 doctors who will be employed in the regions of Lombardy, Emilia-Romagna, etc. | 18:46 |
| LjL | At this time we have more than 200 doctors and 200 nurses in our task force. | 18:47 |
| LjL | Professor, would you like to add something? | 18:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:45 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: New York → https://is.gd/EwdAgZ | 18:47 |
| LjL | Okay, questions then? | 18:47 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Does Trump want to sent the entire planet into Chaos? | 18:48 |
| LjL | Q: My question is about supplies of masks, and the app we're all waiting for, and serology tests... for "phase 2", is there a connection to the supplies we'll need to have? Arcuri's website says 31 million masks have been distributed in a week. But if we go out again, we'll need 50 million masks per day, not 30 per week. Is there a threshold for starting "phase 2"? | 18:48 |
| explore | oh eye masks.. what's what i told Siri.. for my insomnia | 18:48 |
| explore | now if only i have something for my forgetfulness | 18:48 |
| LjL | A: This is both a qualitative and quantitative discussion. Quantitatively, we have some prerequisites, the system must be able to prevent circulation of the virus and guarantee safety at work and in families, as well as on public transport. Qualitatively, it depends on what we actually plan. The WHO's recommendation is still valid for people who are just walking in the street and don't need to go into crowds: using masks for that is still not recommended. | 18:49 |
| LjL | What changes is the recommendation about groups of people in confined indoors environments. | 18:50 |
| Shock | explore: why do you have insomnia? | 18:50 |
| LjL | So the ability of commercial structures, for instance, of guaranteeing distancing will matter. Supplies will be calculated on this basis. | 18:50 |
| LjL | So the reasoning depends on when and what we will decide to reopening: that will determine supplies needed, not vice versa. | 18:50 |
| LjL | Q: [inaudible] | 18:50 |
| LjL | Q: But we do have masks. If we distribute 30 million masks a week, we must also, conversely, consider that we cannot open workplaces, etc... | 18:51 |
| LjL | A: I don't think this is the case. We will work to adapt supplies and target them to an amount that depends on this. There are also more specifics: how many masks per person? That depends on the work type, there are people under particular stress who cannot just have one mask per day. | 18:52 |
| LjL | A: So 50 million per day is the minimum? | 18:52 |
| LjL | A: I'll say again, that depends on what we do exactly. Commissioner Arcuri will need exact information on what the target for purchasing and supplying is going to be. | 18:53 |
| aradesh | my disposable gloves arrived today. now i can go out more safely :) | 18:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:50 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New data shows parts of the US economy 'in ruins' as global cases surpass 2 million → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 18:54 |
| LjL | Q: A question about Lombardy for Dr. Guerra: some hours ago, your representatives from the regions asked the government to re-open production activities on May 4. China is the country that had to face the pandemic first, and you've always encouraged us to look at China to understand how the epidemic would have panned out, and what would be organized to get past it. Wuhan reopened on April 8, when they reached 0 deaths and 0 positives, i.e. 76 days after | 18:55 |
| LjL | lockdown. Even, EVEN, if we had enacted the same restrictive measures for Lombardy, if I count 76 days, Lombardy could only re-open on May 24 or 25. Now my question is, does this reasoning make sense? | 18:55 |
| LjL | A: Sorry if I make a bit of a joke: in 1600, during plague, things were kept closed for 6 months. But things change, we learn new notions, and at our latitude and longitude we have now an ability to evaluate risk. That's essential to understand what can be reopened and under what prerequisites: we don't reopen because we "must" or because it's vital for economics... It IS vital, for sure, but we must understand how to mitigate risk to make it move towards | 18:56 |
| LjL | zero. | 18:56 |
| LjL | We are trying to make this evaluation in an extremely exact way, keeping not just a single work activity into account, but also the whole supply chain, transports, and the other things that need to be re-opened. | 18:57 |
| explore | aradesh: i just wear the regular gloves from dollar store they are washable | 18:57 |
| explore | perhaps you can dip it in some sort of bleach solution? | 18:57 |
| explore | or just not wear them again for a week | 18:57 |
| LjL | I believe Lombardy will be the "pilot" of what happens in the other regions: it must be extremely cautious and use extreme attention to evaluate this risk and all protocols to make the risk zero, i.e. evaluate the health status of workers, determine their age group's risk, understand their immunity or susceptibility to infection... | 18:58 |
| explore | keep swapping gloves | 18:58 |
| explore | cycle through gloves | 18:58 |
| LjL | For safety on the workplace we must arrange with the employers, and we must also talk to the Unions about individual responsibility of each worker, who must certainly be provided with all necessary PPEs, but also know that behaviors must be employed to be protected. | 18:58 |
| LjL | Once again, China showed us that the solution to this emergency lies in social distancing and quarantine. These are measures that were adopted in each country, but you won't find any two countries that adopted exactly the same procedures. Of course, if you go with the army and "flamethrowers", things happen very quickly. If you rely on individual responsibility, there is a different timeframe, and this is why we are still plateauing and haven't reached a | 18:59 |
| LjL | flattening, even though signs are in that direction. | 18:59 |
| lance0000 | Germany cancelling events until September | 19:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:54 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Pelosi says Trump's WHO decision is 'dangerous, illegal and will be challenged': House speaker condemns ‘senseless’ decision 2 million cases of coronavirus confirmed worldwide Elizabeth Warren endorses Joe Biden for president Live global updates → https://is.gd/qawLew | 19:01 |
| LjL | Q: Prof. Guerra, you may be the best person to answer this: of all worldwide numbers, the one that seems most dodgy to me is the recoveries. Some examples: yesterday we had 37000 recoveries on 104000 active cases. How can it be that, aside from Iran, in Spain, they have 88000 total cases with 70000 recoveries; in Germany they have 56000 active cases and 72000 recoveries. Is there differences in calculations, or are WHO protocols not followed, or are they | 19:01 |
| LjL | simply treated better elsewhere? | 19:01 |
| LjL | A: I doubt that. Our healthcare system is top-notch. But how this can be related to comorbidities and chronic disease people have is another matter: let's realize that this virus hit everyone but mostly some existing vulnerable classes. A review of what is happening must keep the physical persons we have in mind. We must analyze the profile of the sick, the recovered, and the deceased. | 19:02 |
| LjL | Q: But Spain and Germany aren't like China, they don't have a population as young as China... Spain has more than twice as many recovered than Italy! | 19:03 |
| LjL | A: Sure, if you let me finish, the other thing is the denominator on the population, not the denominator of tested cases, but the "true" one. | 19:03 |
| LjL | The discussion on advanced age of the Italian population compared to Spain or Germany is another reality: Spanish and German elderly have a type of, excuse me, institutional management, that is different from ours. | 19:04 |
| LjL | When an elderly person gets into a nursing home in Germany, they are much more isolated from their family than in Italy. | 19:04 |
| Urchin | getting Italians to do something is a bit like herding cats | 19:04 |
| Shock | Urchin: what are you basing that opinion on? | 19:04 |
| LjL | Aside from that, you know, I sincerely believe that when we will have all the true data from all countries, we'll see a normalization of curves, they will be similar: this is not a "patriotic" virus, it hits everyone in the same way, if anything there can only be a different starting time. | 19:05 |
| Urchin | Shock: Italians | 19:05 |
| LjL | [I don't believe Spain's "profile" is so different from Italy's.] | 19:05 |
| LjL | Q: Some clarification on serology? Will the "quick tests" be absolutely necessarily for evaluating safety in "phase 2"? And secondly we hear of an initial sample of 150000 people: how will they be chosen, regionally...? And third, which characteristics will have to be respected by this sample? | 19:06 |
| LjL | A: I'll give you my personal opinion: the best safety levels for workers must include an evaluation of immunity. I believe this is a duty to the worker, but also a fundamental factor on gaining productivity again. When we have a percentage of workers that are already immune (at least for some time, because the matter is not yet scientifically solved, we just don't know about long-term immunity... the trend makes us think it's lasting immunity, but how | 19:07 |
| LjL | lasting, we don't know). So it's not just the serology test to understand immunity, but we also perform PCR tests on the ones who test negative on antibodies, if they are to go back to work. | 19:07 |
| LjL | This is fundamental for adequate surveillance on the workplace. | 19:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:05 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Francia → https://is.gd/JwMivb | 19:08 |
| LjL | The second point is about sampling: this sero-prevalence analysis will let us understand how much this virus circulated in our towns. Northern regions will probably show a different reality than southerns, but this will also change by age groups and occupation. | 19:08 |
| LjL | So the sample that was selected with cooperation from ISTAT kept all these factors in mind, obviously including geography. | 19:09 |
| LjL | As to the last part of your question, the characteristics of testing: this is a matter of scientific and technological research. I've said that "quick tests" are being worked on, and those on peripheral blood are not yet replicable enough, while those on vein blood are mostly reliable; there are 4 or 5 tests that can be acceptable and will be evaluated by Commissioner Arcuri. | 19:09 |
| LjL | They will need to have at least 90-95% specificity and sensitivity. | 19:10 |
| LjL | We don't want false positives, but we especially don't want false negatives, so we want the closest possible to 100%. | 19:10 |
| LjL | We can allow us some false negatives. | 19:10 |
| LjL | We cannot afford to expose "false positive" people to a risk. So the test will need to respond to these needs, but the scenario is changing daily, and at some stage we'll have to just pick the best test, the "golden standard" at a given time. | 19:11 |
| LjL | There is no perfect test. There is no 100% and 100%. We have approximations above 95%, so I'll say if we can adopt that type of test with that kind of certainty, we'll have done a fine job. | 19:11 |
| LjL | A: A question about nursing homes: we understood this virus doesn't pick people but hits the elderly the hardest. So please, why did this vulnerable category not get adequately protected, and nurses have even been told NOT to wear masks to avoid "scaring the patients", and why have COVID patients not even been separated from healthy patients? | 19:12 |
| LjL | Deaths are very many, the numbers are very high, and behind these numbers are people who died scared and alone. | 19:13 |
| LjL | Finally, courts are investigating; but in the meanwhile, can we give some answers to the relatives of victims? | 19:13 |
| LjL | I ask this not only as a journalist to provide information, but if I may, also as a citizen. | 19:13 |
| LjL | Q: Patients in nursing home, deaths in nursing homes, is a topic that became prominent a while ago. The ISS itself is investigating thoroughly on the causes of deaths, but this investigation has not yet ended. We can refer to it when it is from an epidemiology point of view. | 19:14 |
| LjL | As a national department that supports the regional healthcare workers, we are sending our nurses and our doctors in the nursing homes. | 19:14 |
| LjL | The emergency on the territory is about territorial medicine, not hospitals. This is what the health directors of the various regions also stated to me. | 19:15 |
| Urchin | %cases croatia | 19:15 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin: In all areas, Croatia, there are 1741 cases (0.0% of the population) and 34 deaths (2.0% of cases) as of 10 minutes ago. 19256 tests were performed (9.0% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 6.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data. | 19:15 |
| LjL | If Prof. Guerra wants to add anything... | 19:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:12 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany to begin reopening economy next week as global cases surpass 2 million → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 19:15 |
| LjL | (Guerra) Yes, look, firstly, I will reiterate what Dr Borrelli said: the matter of non-hospital structures is fundamental, and in the systematic review that must emerge from this epidemic, it will be a revision on the adequacy not just to healthcare standards, but also the routes for providing assistance. It's not just about deciding on a number of beds and how many square maters each patient must have. | 19:16 |
| LjL | The "massacre" we have seen must be a circumstance not to be wasted: we must rethink the whole system. This is fundamental. I cannot answer your question because I am honestly part of an agency who is asking the government the very same thing. | 19:17 |
| LjL | There are standards of infection prevention in hospitals and similar structures that must become much, much more binding. | 19:17 |
| LjL | Italy, with Turkey and Greece, was one of the worst countries in terms of antibiotic resistance: this was already an indicator of a, let's say, not particularly good practices for prevention of infection in healthcare structure. | 19:18 |
| LjL | At the end of the day, the responsibility for healthcare is on the regions, not the central government. | 19:18 |
| LjL | The other point, which which I agree completely, is we must reinforce, long-term, the whole territorial management of healthcare. | 19:18 |
| LjL | It's true we have excellent hospital structures, but we must also have excellent territorial structures. | 19:18 |
| LjL | We must handle things with GPs as a part of an active surveillance system. | 19:19 |
| LjL | The second phase in this epidemic will inevitably need to have a territorial standard of prevention that will be much higher than it is now. | 19:19 |
| LjL | You have focused a lot on the cuts on hospital beds and funding. I am actually not contesting the cuts, because in some situations, revision of expense and optimization of resources just had to be done, or else the system would not be sustainable. | 19:20 |
| LjL | This has been done with capability and intelligence. But the crucial point is that the ability of the country to prevent disease has gone down, on assistance to the sick, on comorbidities... this is a country that is getting older, with chronic diseases. | 19:20 |
| LjL | At the same time, a prevention department and a network that is able to provide vaccinations in a very widespread way is the requisite before we can think about "re-openings". | 19:21 |
| LjL | If we have no structure that is able to immediately trace suspects, bring diagnostics into people's homes, and isolate immediately any suspected infected, we won't be doing a good job... to be very clear and explicit. | 19:21 |
| LjL | I think the Minister has this very clear and is providing strong reinforcement, a big investment on territorial structures. | 19:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:20 UTC: /u/slakmehl: New York Gov. Cuomo to order all people to wear masks or face coverings in public → https://is.gd/o4bapd | 19:22 |
| Urchin | well, deaths in Croatia are going up | 19:23 |
| LjL | Let me say something more: this must be done now, it's important to do it now; we are not yet in flu season, but we'll get there in October, with schools reopening... We must think about vaccinations against influenza and pneumococcal, for all elderly and children and anyone who can be a vector, because those will be confounding factors for COVID. | 19:23 |
| Urchin | it's essentially the cases from around the end of wild exponential spread that | 19:24 |
| LjL | This country had the least vaccination percentage among healthcare working in all of Europe. This is another bad tradition that must definitely be changed. | 19:24 |
| LjL | I think health workers are obviously conscious of the issue at this point, and they will realize they need to be put in the condition to work with the most protection available. | 19:24 |
| LjL | Let's not forget that much in this epidemic could be prevented and corrected before a huge wave comes that overwhelms hospitals. | 19:24 |
| LjL | Q: Every time Trump attacks the WHO, you are here at these press conferences. I don't know if it's coincidental. Concretely, what does the US withdrawing funding from the WHO changing? In the short term and the long? My other question is: the situation in Lombardy and Milan, despite mitigation, are probably even spiking more compared to other regions... My doubt is that maybe too many work activities have actually remained open, with self-certifications, | 19:26 |
| LjL | and exceptions... So the most productive and dynamic regions are still paying the highest toll. I find it hard to believe that the continued infections are just due to people jogging or shopping. | 19:26 |
| LjL | A: (Laughter) Yes, well, every time there is a "muscle show" by someone, here I come, trying to reason. | 19:26 |
| LjL | First, we must see if this threat actually becomes reality. | 19:27 |
| LjL | Let me say something: there is a misunderstanding on self-control of the WHO. We have two control and government organs, which are both made up of member states. The WHO doesn't have decisional autonomy on what it wants to do: it can only decide based on what the World Health Assembly and the Executive Board indicate as priority, and that's decided by the states, those are the goals and benchmarks that the WHO gets measured on. | 19:28 |
| LjL | There are governance elements within the WHO that are extremely specific, both on financial aspects and results. | 19:29 |
| LjL | These are things that must be understood, or one thinks that the General Director can just declare a pandemic when he decides. Not so. There is a procedure, there is an emergency committee that evaluates things based on available information and evidence, and based on the informational system that members states make available. | 19:30 |
| LjL | Indications are provided on this basis. Now: the United States are the main contributor not just of economic resources, but also personnel! 25 people from the CDC are working at the WHO, integrated with the other personnel. It's a technical and scientific cooperation that never ends. We are in continuous contact with the American NIH about drugs, vaccines, research and so on... | 19:31 |
| LjL | So you know, one thing is what the administrator can release to the press, or request in terms of evaluations... The same happened with Ebola: asking an independent commission to go and see what actually happened, and improve the Agency's abilities, as we all want... that's not taboo. It was done in the past, but from my point of view it's secondary, as from my point of view, the Agency's actions are transparent and seen by everyone. | 19:32 |
| LjL | Ask yourselves a qusetion: what would have happened had the WHO not existed? | 19:32 |
| LjL | Q: But aren't you worried about the US suspending...? | 19:32 |
| LjL | A: Look, honestly, I don't think this can happen in the medium term. They can suspend while they wait to evaluate what happened: our doors are open to anyone who wants to check. If the Trump administration wants to send people to work with us and understand what happened and what will happen, that's not a problem, we do it every day. | 19:33 |
| LjL | There are declarations of "friendship", so to say, from other countries, that show that our Agency has not really had a fall in reputation. The UK donated us £200 million just the other day. | 19:33 |
| LjL | So let's be careful what we say: the US itself is part of our internal decisional process. They gave a number of indications, predominatly on research and development, which were immediately absorbed and handled by the Agency. | 19:34 |
| LjL | Q: And on Lombardy and Milan...? | 19:34 |
| LjL | A: This is complex. That is a complicated region, with high mobility and high production capabilities, a region with interpersonal relationships that are twice as much as other regions... it's hard to stop the "lung" of a region that feeds essential activities that were identified by the government as such. | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany to begin reopening economy next week as global cases surpass 2 million → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 19:35 |
| LjL | What I mean is that healthcare is one essential activity that wasn't closed and which is huge in Lombardy. Then police forces... you know what the essential activities are, and obviously none of that has been stopped, or the country wouldn't survive. | 19:35 |
| LjL | Aside from that, Lombardy provided some information on mobility of population: it reached as much as 45%, IIRC, during some particular days. That is frankly too much. | 19:36 |
| LjL | What I heard from the administration of Lombardy wrt reminding the population to maintain social distancing, which I understand is very hard, especially now that we "see some light", the weather changes, Spring is here... it's very hard to compel people. | 19:36 |
| LjL | Q: So is it some lack of discipline from Milanese and Lombards? | 19:37 |
| LjL | A: Not discipline... let's not say that... but a degree of intolerance, yes, but again, it's partly due to the fact that essential services that must be continued do entail a degree of mobility, and if you look at the productive "structure" of that region, it's inevitably. | 19:38 |
| LjL | Q: So there are too many essential things that are not under lockdown? | 19:38 |
| LjL | A: Yes, there are, and they must continue. This makes the curve not slow down as much as we want. But this is inevitable if we want to keep the country alive... at least... again, a little more discipline must be demanded, especially now in this crucial phase. | 19:39 |
| LjL | Q: Prof. Guerra, again on serology, will the same type of test be used in all regions, or will they use different authorized types? | 19:39 |
| LjL | A: We're attempting to have only one test, to guarantee reproducibility and standards. If we use different tests with different standards, comparisons become difficult, and comparability is fundamental. I wish that the test adopted will be just one, and I trust it will be. | 19:40 |
| LjL | Once the situation has stabilized, and we can screen people for authorization to work and to see who is immune, that will depend on each administration, as long as minimum quality standards of the test are respected. | 19:40 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Okay, thanks, that's it for today, have a good evening. | 19:40 |
| LjL | --- end | 19:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 17:45 UTC: Add April 15 Civil Protection press conference: Today they talked a bit about antibody tests and how they will be deployed; the Italian WHO representative was there to basically respond to Trump's threat to cut funding; there was some relatively honest criticism to how the whole country [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/EBbZhn | 19:49 |
| LjL | Shock, i didn't feel great when i saw that remark above (but I was busy doing the transcription so I put it aside in my mind), but, honestly, as an Italian, i do feel we have some kind of... sense of irritability when we're told we MUST act a certain way from above. America is often called a very individualistic society, and i suppose it is in more than a few ways, but while Italy as a country works in a less individualistic way, i feel we tend to be quite | 19:49 |
| LjL | so as... individual people | 19:49 |
| LjL | my first reaction to the lockdown in Lombardy was like: "what? WHAT? I'M MAD ABOUT THIS! I CAN'T LEAVE HOME? WHAT?" and i think some people here can witness that reaction of mine | 19:50 |
| LjL | then the next day i more calmly understood it was awful but needed | 19:50 |
| LjL | not everybody may reach the next day, so to speak | 19:50 |
| blkshp | It's strange on the day, i had personally made the decision to permanently work from home, somehow making that decision and the PMs statement on the same day kinda subconsciously made my brain think it was my idea! | 19:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany to begin reopening economy next week as global cases surpass 2 million → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 19:56 |
| Shock | LjL: your reaction is perfectly natural, and not unique to italy :) | 20:11 |
| Shock | even small babies don't like being told what to do and will often disobey | 20:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:04 UTC: Guatemala calls US 'Wuhan of Americas' in battle over deportees: The country’s health minister says deportation flights are driving up coronavirus cases after a flight had 75% test positive → https://is.gd/DImndj | 20:17 |
| l0ndoner | P-S--Y: you feeling ok? | 20:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:16 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany to begin reopening economy next week as global cases surpass 2 million → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 20:24 |
| yuriwho | HEY everyone, live COVID-19 vaccines webinar from the American Chemical Society is happening right now!: https://youtu.be/nk9QsGLodE4 | 20:25 |
| l0ndoner | Pluralsight giving pro membership free for whole of April... I'm gonna check out some Python and R I think | 20:25 |
| LjL | yuriwho, god this sound awfully much like a speech synthesizer | 20:28 |
| LjL | okay i know i'm the last to speak, i was made fun of at your thing for speaking so slowly ;( | 20:28 |
| LjL | but still | 20:28 |
| yuriwho | asian scientist | 20:30 |
| yuriwho | speaking | 20:30 |
| LjL | yuriwho, it's probablty the codecs though | 20:30 |
| yuriwho | ya | 20:30 |
| LjL | i can't really understand what she's saying, but i suspect i could if it weren't this compressed | 20:31 |
| yuriwho | I can understand | 20:31 |
| yuriwho | she is speaking Sciencese | 20:31 |
| LjL | yuriwho, well i'm FAR from native speaker level in speaking/listening. i'm only decent at reading and writing. | 20:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 18:36 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The COVID Tracking Project su Twitter: "Here's where we are with positive tests in the United States. You can see the NY dominance, as well as the variability across the country. Remember that the number of positive results is shaped by the total number of tests, which has plateaued in April at less [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NHntcr | 20:38 |
| l0ndoner | LjL: did you listen in on UK press confrence? | 20:40 |
| LjL | l0ndoner, no, i'm listening to this webinar (the little i can understand of it) and previously i was listening to the italian press conference | 20:41 |
| l0ndoner | I missed your italian minutes as was working | 20:41 |
| LjL | l0ndoner, is the UK one taking place now? | 20:41 |
| l0ndoner | sorry | 20:41 |
| LjL | l0ndoner, they are on github now | 20:41 |
| LjL | together with all the other ones from the past | 20:41 |
| LjL | well, most of them | 20:41 |
| l0ndoner | no uk press confrence was held 17:00 BST | 20:42 |
| jester | google translator | 20:44 |
| l0ndoner | google translator only goes so far | 20:44 |
| jester | onlinenewspapers.com | 20:45 |
| l0ndoner | jester that is actually very useful thank you... did you compile this? | 20:46 |
| LjL | jester, google translator for... what? | 20:48 |
| l0ndoner | but England is missed out in northern europe jester | 20:48 |
| jester | italy | 20:51 |
| jester | [12:41:16] <LjL> l0ndoner, no, i'm listening to this webinar (the little i can understand of it) and previously i was listening to the italian press conference | 20:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 18:44 UTC: Coronavirus: How big is the problem in care homes?: What's the scale of coronavirus in the UK's care sector, and is it possible to get accurate figures? → https://is.gd/Be8sXS | 20:52 |
| LjL | jester, i am italian, i don't need google translate for that... and i listen to them *in order to* transcribe and translate them to english for others every day | 20:53 |
| LjL | i want to think i can do a better job than google translate | 20:53 |
| LjL | if i don't, well, i'm keeping myself occupied anyway. | 20:53 |
| Aisha | LjL, are you in italy? | 20:53 |
| LjL | Aisha, yes, Milan | 20:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 18:57 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Conte propone una tregua a Movimento e Pd: "Non ha senso dividerci ora sul Mes". Sì di Franceschini e Bonafede - la Repubblica → https://is.gd/kUftGB | 20:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany to begin reopening economy next week as global cases surpass 2 million → https://is.gd/kFRmGU | 21:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:13 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: French hospital staff treating coronavirus patients to get €1,500 → https://is.gd/Zs2p4E | 21:21 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-what-are-germanys-updated-lockdown-measures/a-53139313 | 21:21 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: More than 600,000 people sign petition demanding hazard pay for U.S. Postal Service employees (10130 votes) | https://redd.it/g1stor | 21:21 |
| riotous[m] | Event 201 - https://matrix.to/#/!oEvEnuShzIRonlrPSO:matrix.org/$URD_7xIRS-8TcGiFfky-dU6L3sjIlb21_SJkVIvJcBE?via=matrix.org | 21:21 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, as in the ones that will be coming into force next week (wrt what Brainstorm posted)? | 21:22 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: yes, I guess the same | 21:23 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, well those measures (including, i assume, no actual stop to work activities that aren't shops and stores, beyond "work from home if feasible") would be foolish in italy and just get the curve to spike back up horribly. i hope we don't do it. but germany's curves have been quite different so perhaps it's going to be okay. | 21:24 |
| mefistofeles | woah 10k ICU beds still available in Germany xD | 21:24 |
| LjL | yeah, there is that | 21:24 |
| LjL | although when you get someone into ICU there is only a 50% chance or so they'll live, so it's not great anyway | 21:24 |
| LjL | no matter how many ICUs you have left | 21:24 |
| mefistofeles | and now ICU ventilator are not that needed, according to recent developments | 21:24 |
| LjL | hmm? | 21:24 |
| LjL | i mean, because there are fewer patients, or have they actually discovered something? | 21:25 |
| mefistofeles | because it doesn't look like ARDS but more like high altitude pulmonary edema | 21:25 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, is that related to the whole thing i didn't understand about the inflammation causing widespread coagulation...? | 21:25 |
| LjL | that was a thing circulating in italy that i didn't quite catch | 21:26 |
| LjL | ... just like the virus, hopefully | 21:26 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, also in NYC. I actually heard that first in TWIV podcast, from an ICU MD | 21:27 |
| LjL | do you have any knowledge on whether italian doctors are up to speed with this and not treating patients accordingly? | 21:27 |
| LjL | also, what is "accordingly"? i assume they have to put them on *something*, if not ventilators. just anti-coagulants? | 21:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 19:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Close family to be allowed to say goodbye to the dying → https://is.gd/ivrbKl | 21:28 |
| mefistofeles | no, sadly my news are mostly german, colombian or usa centered | 21:28 |
| LjL | ironically i also have mostly international news in mind and little italian, aside from the daily press conferences | 21:28 |
| LjL | so this thing was only mentioned passingly in one question in those... and i wasn't sure i had even understood it | 21:29 |
| mefistofeles | there must be some podcast or something from experts interviewing ICUs MDs, I guess | 21:29 |
| mefistofeles | in Italy | 21:29 |
| LjL | assuming they have any time left for interviews... | 21:30 |
| mefistofeles | actually, from that TWIC doctor he said that delaying the ventilator use had actually increased the chance of survival, or something like that | 21:30 |
| mefistofeles | but of course ventilators are still pretty much needed, but on second week or so | 21:30 |
| mefistofeles | *TWIV | 21:30 |
| mefistofeles | as far as I could get, that is | 21:31 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: yes, what most do is they do that when the shift ends, they still cannot work more than certain amount of hours by law | 21:31 |
| mefistofeles | they get erratic after that, allegedly | 21:32 |
| mefistofeles | or in the lunch break or similar | 21:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:27 UTC: (news): Executives warn Trump that Americans need more coronavirus testing before returning to work, shopping, eating out → https://is.gd/wx1UHC | 21:35 |
| oriba | Germany will untighten the lockdown a little bit soon. Might again become interesting, looking at the numbers then... | 21:35 |
| mefistofeles | oriba: yes, though, I mean, people here behave just as if there weren't a lockdown, apart from the bars, restaurants, concerts, etc., obviously | 21:36 |
| mefistofeles | s/a /any | 21:36 |
| genera | haircutters. most of the retail. | 21:36 |
| genera | churches. | 21:36 |
| oriba | mefistofeles: but they try the distancing thing | 21:37 |
| Aisha | Brainstorm, now if only the Evangelicals were to "tell him or fox news" | 21:37 |
| Aisha | 2 gods , money and jesus | 21:37 |
| genera | and mask use | 21:37 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: would it be possible to have a solid html-link for the csv of the data-sets? | 21:39 |
| mefistofeles | oriba: oh yeah, that'sthe minimum | 21:40 |
| mefistofeles | oriba: the data is the same from JHU, afaik | 21:40 |
| Aisha | or "two masters served" as They say | 21:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 19:34 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Close family to be allowed to say goodbye to the dying → https://is.gd/ivrbKl | 21:42 |
| mefistofeles | oh, sad, just found out a friend of my family died from the virus | 21:42 |
| oriba | mefistofeles: sure? I thought, has has other data too? Also maybe it's cleaned up, I think. | 21:42 |
| mefistofeles | oriba: yeah, not sure actually | 21:42 |
| tinwhiskers | The data is now from covidly, which has much more regional data, but you can use http://offloop.net/covid19/?legacy=yes to access the JHU data. | 21:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Not that the "JHU data" is not *just JHU, but has us state data and and Italian regional data added | 21:43 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: whats the url for the covidly-dataset? | 21:43 |
| tinwhiskers | The default url gives the covidly data now | 21:44 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: I want the dataset itself. | 21:44 |
| tinwhiskers | There is currently no link to the full dataset, only the csv icon | 21:44 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah | 21:44 |
| mefistofeles | oriba: https://covidly.com/faq | 21:45 |
| oriba | mefistofeles: thx | 21:45 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: if you can deal with json instead I can give you a direct link to the covidly data | 21:45 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: json would be ok also. | 21:46 |
| tinwhiskers | Pm? | 21:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 19:45 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Francia → https://is.gd/jY9yyT | 21:49 |
| mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: why not here? others may find it useful | 21:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:00 UTC: Trump's WHO funding threat echoes action that got him impeached, Democrats say: House Democrats say Trump cannot halt funds already approved by Congress for the World Health Organization, which is fighting the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/XLTgoQ | 22:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:14 UTC: (news): How Germany plans to gradually reopen its economy after a weeks-long coronavirus shutdown → https://is.gd/BSDKE8 | 22:17 |
| Xip | Going! | 22:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 20:17 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Close family to be allowed to say goodbye to the dying → https://is.gd/ivrbKl | 22:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:24 UTC: (news): Executives warn Trump that Americans need more coronavirus testing before returning to work, shopping, eating out → https://is.gd/wx1UHC | 22:31 |
| merethan | "coronavirus testing before returning to work, shopping, eating out". Before eating out, you need an STD test. | 22:43 |
| ecov | merethan: its called the sniff test | 22:47 |
| merethan | Sniff snuff snoo snoo | 22:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:47 UTC: (news): How Germany plans to gradually reopen its economy after a weeks-long coronavirus shutdown → https://is.gd/BSDKE8 | 22:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:55 UTC: (news): Goldman says one sign the pandemic may be getting better is fewer people Googling 'loss of smell' → https://is.gd/K4fJug | 22:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:03 UTC: Goldman says fewer 'loss of smell' Google queries suggest better COVID outlook: "Data on the pace of virus spread are encouraging, suggesting that lockdowns have paid large dividends," Goldman's chief economist wrote. → https://is.gd/K4fJug | 23:06 |
| ryouma | what google.com query does one do to count those queries? | 23:08 |
| kPa | Yeah, well, they also said this last December: https://cnbc.com/2019/12/31/goldman-sachs-is-saying-the-economy-is-nearly-recession-proof.html | 23:09 |
| bin_bash | look we may have hit the bottom, ok, but like what about second bottom | 23:10 |
| ubLIX | "loss of smell is significant" is a meme that can't have take long to propagate across our small-world network | 23:11 |
| mefistofeles | ryouma: check https://trends.google.com/trends | 23:11 |
| riotous[m] | <mefistofeles "ryouma: check https://trends.goo"> https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&geo=US&q=Corona%20hoax | 23:22 |
| riotous[m] | <Brainstorm "New from CNBC Health at 20:00 UT"> The sooner he cuts the WHO off the better. | 23:24 |
| ryouma | mefistofeles: riotous[m]thanks i keep forgetting foofle's services | 23:25 |
| ryouma | whenever you hear anything remotely like this, pretty much ever, with any disease, including covid presentations, you know it is a lie and that sick people are being harmed by the medical system --- "told NOT to wear masks to avoid "scaring the patients"," | 23:26 |
| ryouma | false concern about mental state is a pretext for harm | 23:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:26 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The COVID Tracking Project su Twitter: "States reported 2,492 new deaths. This is the highest daily death toll recorded so far.… " → https://is.gd/K9MHvm | 23:27 |
| kPa | Is anyone actually scared by seeing other people wear masks? Does that actually happen? | 23:31 |
| bin_bash | yes | 23:31 |
| bin_bash | the police get really scared | 23:31 |
| mefistofeles | yes, it used to happen, in early stages specially | 23:32 |
| mefistofeles | not sure now | 23:32 |
| bin_bash | now we all know how videos can be framed to appear a certain way, but https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending/video-allegedly-shows-black-men-kicked-out-walmart-wearing-masks-against-covid-19/CVSUEPD26NCZ3HVAJTA2TYYZDE/ | 23:33 |
| LjL | now https://www.euromomo.eu/ shows COVID happening very obviously, it's no longer just Italy | 23:45 |
| LjL | and it cautions that data may be delayed, so it may not have reached the worst yet | 23:45 |
| LjL | although in some countries it looks like it had a sharp peak but it's already going down now | 23:45 |
| LjL | like Benelux | 23:45 |
| ryouma | nitrile gloves seem available now. does this mean we will get disinfectant and tp and so on? | 23:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 21:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Close family to be allowed to say goodbye to the dying → https://is.gd/ivrbKl | 23:49 |
| LjL | ryouma, there is *seriously* still no toilet paper? despite production being just fine? | 23:49 |
| ryouma | idk | 23:49 |
| ryouma | uk keeps talkign abuot it at least | 23:49 |
| ryouma | but what i want is specific disinfectants that are not rocket science to produce | 23:50 |
| davros | dettol? | 23:50 |
| ryouma | and of course masks for everybody | 23:50 |
| ryouma | i am not from uk | 23:50 |
| LjL | ryouma, the hand sanitizers are fine here. brandnames are hard to find, but many pharmacies just produce it themselves. | 23:50 |
| ryouma | good | 23:51 |
| nb | In the USA we've had several distilleries start producing hand sanitizer | 23:51 |
| ryouma | i didn't even know hand sanitizers existed before the pandemic. i knew only about triclosan spray. | 23:51 |
| lf94 | Canada too | 23:51 |
| ryouma | are there shortages of aloe? | 23:51 |
| lf94 | There are shortages of glycerin. | 23:52 |
| lf94 | (The base ingredient for moisturizers.) | 23:52 |
| ryouma | which you don't need i presume | 23:52 |
| lf94 | Not to kill bateria no | 23:52 |
| pyna | when i saw the first "diy sanitizer" articles alcohol was already panic bought, but glycerin and peroxide weren't quite gone. so if i ever get some alcohol i can make some sanitixer | 23:53 |
| ryouma | huh, google trends just shows a black tab | 23:55 |
| pyna | plus i live in PA so not only is non-drinking alcohol hard to find, but grain alcohol is illegal here, and liquor stores are closed anyway | 23:55 |
| LjL | ryouma, in many places in europe it was already common to have a pocketable hand sanitizer gel bottle. maybe it's not so common in the US because people there don't tend to use public transport if they have money for cars. here everyone uses public transport, but we are sort of aware it's not great to be touching the handrails, buttons, etc | 23:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:49 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: Rudd slams Trump's 'lunatic' WHO decision as national cabinet to meet – latest updates → https://is.gd/zYip9Y | 23:56 |
| LjL | obviously it wasn't *as* common as it is now | 23:56 |
| Aisha | oh are there some non morrison aussies? | 23:57 |
| LjL | it's everything in reverse now. upside down, speaking of australia. "make sure kids spend as much time as possible in front of TV or computers!" "we must find incentives to make people use private transportation as much as possible" | 23:58 |
| LjL | these just a couple of upside down things i hear lately | 23:58 |
| LjL | "Don't socialize in person, use social media as much as possible!" | 23:59 |
| Aisha | anti-social media more like | 23:59 |
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