libera/##covid-19/ Saturday, 2020-04-18

romareI started to look forward to weekends. it's so peaceful00:01
romarethere's curfew only on weekends here in Turkey00:01
ding%cases florida00:01
Brainstormding: In Florida, US, there are 24753 cases (0.1% of the population) and 726 deaths (2.9% of cases) as of 11 minutes ago. 225736 tests were performed (11.0% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Florida for time series data.00:01
romareis there any other country that does that?00:02
ding%cases maryland00:02
Brainstormding: In Maryland, US, there are 11572 cases (0.2% of the population) and 425 deaths (3.7% of cases) as of 11 minutes ago. 62009 tests were performed (18.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Maryland for time series data.00:02
ding%cases portugal00:02
Brainstormding: In all areas, Portugal, there are 19022 cases (0.2% of the population) and 657 deaths (3.5% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 191680 tests were performed (9.9% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal for time series data.00:02
LjLromare, not aware of any, although i hear iran is largely acting as if it's nothing big00:04
LjLlast i looked, turkey was quite exponential00:04
LjL%cases turkey00:04
BrainstormLjL: In all areas, Turkey, there are 78546 cases (0.1% of the population) and 1769 deaths (2.3% of cases) as of 14 minutes ago. 558413 tests were performed (14.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.8% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 17.0% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data.00:04
romareyea it hits the fan here00:05
LjLtinwhiskers, uh oh. 500 internal server error00:05
tinwhiskersoh00:05
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:52 UTC: Watch live: Coronavirus task force holds briefing as Trump pushes protests, spars with governors: Members of the coronavirus task force are expected to hold a press briefing Friday as tensions between President Donald Trump and governors continues to grow. → https://is.gd/JWFzMO00:05
romareoh wtf00:06
romarechina reported 1k deaths00:06
romarehow did that happen?00:06
mefistofelesromare: apparently, they are reporting the deaths that were not detected before, this is somewhat expected00:10
romareoh00:11
romareI thought it was the aftermath of one day00:11
mefistofelespeople dying in houses, or deaths in hospitals that couldn't be tested (no test kit or whatever), etc.00:11
mefistofelesmisdiagnoses00:11
bin_bashall the people that died welded into their homes00:11
romareso they started doing post-mortem testing?00:12
mefistofelesI guess00:12
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 22:16 UTC: California governor names Steyer, Yellen and tech CEOs to business recovery task force: The task force's goal is to help Californian's recover as fast as possible from the economic calamity resulting from the coronavirus. It will include former Chair of the Federal Reserve Janet Yellen, Disney Executive Chairman Bob [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zMKRiI00:20
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 22:17 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: nearly 100,000 EU citizens remain stranded overseas due to pandemic → https://is.gd/b5N6B100:34
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 22:37 UTC: How does the tier system account for increased testing?: In my state of Illinois we ramped you our testing a bunch in the last couple days so we saw a 1% increase in the growth rate vs the last few days which is entirely applicable to the fact that more testing was done. → https://is.gd/nzwbvz00:41
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 22:41 UTC: WHO says China revised coronavirus infection data to 'leave no case undocumented': Wuhan, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak in China, added 325 confirmed coronavirus cases and 1,290 deaths to the city's Covid-19 count after "a city-wide investigation," state media reported earlier Friday. → https://is.gd/UQeUPN00:48
tinwhiskersBrainstorm keeps telling me this but I'm yet to see these new numbers show up in the data!00:49
ubLXIweird. it was showing on offloop earlier today but seems not to be now00:54
mefistofelesI ask again, do you know what happened to France data the last couple of days?00:56
mefistofelesit was pretty erratic when I checked00:56
tinwhiskersubLXI: oh. interesting00:56
tinwhiskersit's not showing in the alternate (JHU) data set either: http://offloop.net/covid19/?legacy=yes00:57
ubLXItinwhiskers: earlier today, offloop showed a jump of 1288 cases under China but not under Hubei00:58
tinwhiskersok00:59
ubLXI*of deaths, not cases00:59
tinwhiskersoh00:59
tinwhiskersof course00:59
tinwhiskersmefistofeles: I don't know what happened with france. The default (covidly) dataset shows a series if stepwise increases, whereas the legacy (JHU) dataset shows a single stepwise correction, so I think we can conclude that it wasn't a case of france not reporting data, but for some reason the aggregators having problems getting the data??01:02
ubLXIperhaps since the first reported revision, the data have been adjusted to their respective dates per best estimates for time of death?01:02
tinwhiskersubLXI: maybe. I do have old data somewhere I could compare but I'm not sure I'm motivated enough to do that01:02
BrainstormNew from The Lancet at 00:00 UTC: [Obituary] John Frederick Murray: Leading US chest physician. He was born in Mineola, NY, USA, on June 8, 1927, and died of complications from coronavirus disease 2019 in Paris, France, on March 24, 2020, aged 92 years. → https://is.gd/k84DGS01:02
LjLtinwhiskers, what's Brainstorm saying?01:03
LjLalso it's still not posting updates ;(01:03
tinwhiskersoh, just about WHO says China revised coronavirus infection data to 'leave no case undocumented': Wuhan, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak in China, added 325 confirmed coronavirus cases and 1,290 deaths to the city's Covid-19 count after "a city-wide investigation," state media reported earlier Friday.01:03
LjLoh01:04
tinwhiskersubLXI: correction: I'm *certain* I don't have the motivation to do that01:04
LjLmaybe i should add a news filter that doesn't allow any numbers that aren't in the dataset :D01:04
tinwhiskers:-)01:04
ubLXItinwhiskers: well as of 4 hours ago, The Guardian thinks Wuhan City had 3869 deaths, whereas offloop is currently showing only 3222 for the whole of Hubei01:05
ynhof[m]I wonder if they will still be vying for democratic processes01:06
tinwhiskershrm01:06
ubLXIsecond paragraph: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/china-denies-cover-up-as-wuhan-coronavirus-deaths-revised-up-5001:07
ubLXIheh. must be hallucinating. the 1288 jump is 'back' under China but not Hubei01:14
ubLXI^ tinwhiskers 01:14
ubLXIonly under 'include live data'01:15
tinwhiskersahh01:16
tinwhiskersahhhh01:16
Ralph4578Got two new cats, named the female Corona, and the male Covid01:33
tinwhiskerscute :-p01:35
MinceRpoor kitties01:58
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 00:00 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: nearly 100,000 EU citizens remain stranded overseas due to pandemic → https://is.gd/b5N6B102:06
Philippe[m]Ralph4578: They will destroy the world (as cats do).  02:25
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 00:14 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: investigations into aged-care homes amid outbreaks – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB202:27
LjLthe way it's put in this article, i feel this poll tells me basically nothing that wasn't obvious https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-only-9-of-britons-want-life-to-return-to-normal-once-lockdown-is-over-1197445902:29
LjLalmost nobody wants to go back to "things as before" if that's framed in terms of "we'll be equally fools if another pandemic or other catastrophe comes", that's not a surprise02:30
LjLbut then they put positive spins to things that less than 50% of interviewed people said they noticed/did02:30
LjLnow reading the full figure may well end up supporting their apparent interpretation, but i'm just saying... that article doesn't say much to me02:31
LjL(so why did i post it? probably because realizing what things are saying or not saying is also important in my book :P)02:31
tinwhiskersI'm more creeped out by the photo of the author. Uncanny looking for some reason. I thought it was a photo of a toy doll at first.02:32
LjLhadn't pay attention02:32
LjLpaid02:33
LjLbut hard cold data churner...02:33
davrosyeah you could interpret this as "just 9% of people were satisfied with life" rather than 91% found an improvement they want to keep02:33
tinwhiskers91% of Britons don't want to go back to work02:34
davrosi will say i like the roads being empty02:34
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 00:26 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: New saliva test for coronavirus rolls out in New Jersey → https://is.gd/0fgs5U02:34
davrosand i am strangely encouraged by the possibility that this dramatic reduction in transport when reducing the economy to essentials might be a measurement of how little transport we could get away with02:34
davrosi have something that might sound like an inverted conspiracy theory02:34
davrosbasically "if i was  in charge, i'd use the coronavirus event as an opportunity to accelerate low carbon living"02:35
tinwhiskersfair enough02:35
davrosa kick up the arse to eliminate all the unecasery journeys and maximize working from home02:36
tinwhiskerswould you keep 50% (or whatever it is) of people at home all the time?02:36
davroswhere its not entirely correlated is that even bikes and walking are enough to have dangerous gatherings at the moment02:37
davrosbut the fact we have to stay home to an extreme basically means we'll develop that capacity more02:37
davrosi joke it's an "isolation exercise", pun intended"02:37
davrosisolation exercise= stressing one system on it's own to an extreme02:38
tinwhiskersso you'd plan for permanent unemployment and home detention for the majority of the population?02:38
tinwhiskersA UBI might do it I guess02:38
davrostaht sounds negsative hah02:38
davrosi'd word it as "re-organizing the economy to get rid of the unecasery journeys"02:38
davroschanging how we work02:38
davrosthe fact the existing chains of demand that determine how we work have evolved under the assumption that we can move people around easily02:39
davrosthat has led us into a dead end02:39
ryoumaone thing polling can do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA02:40
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Why Is Anyone Still Asking Dr. Phil for His Opinion? | He thinks 360,000 people die per year in swimming pools. Don’t listen to his advice on COVID-19 (10757 votes) | https://redd.it/g38hnw02:40
tinwhiskersdavros: I don't think rewording it solves the problem of the bulk of people being confined largely to their homes and not having jobs.02:42
davrosif you look at the big picture,02:43
LjLuh... i don't know, why? and also who is it? (@ CoronaBot)02:43
davroswe have an essential need which is food and shelter02:43
davrosand in the middle, we have a lot of discretionary "wants" being serviced02:43
davroswe've ended up in this awkward dead end where people needed cars to service those "wants" to eventually get food (their "needs")02:43
davrosGiven that we can't move this many people around eventually (i'll have to qualify i'm a peak oiler) , we need a big rethink02:44
davrosi dont beleive renewables and electric cars will keep this level of mobility going02:44
tinwhiskersdavros: I think socialising and some ability to move around to fulfil dreams is critical for the survival of a society without it falling into anarchy.02:44
davrosso this way of life is over, whatever happens (IM)02:44
tinwhiskersYou can't just keep people in their homes because it's worked for a few weeks02:45
davrosthe absolute quarantine isn't needed but02:45
tinwhiskersPeople have short memories. In ten years things will be pretty much back to how they were.02:45
davrosthe re-organization of essentials in this quarantine time shows us a baseline02:45
davrosin 10-20 years I predict conditions worse than this from oil depletion02:46
davrosand to bring up my "inverted conspiracy theory" again02:46
davroshow many other people think like me?02:46
davrosmaybe they thought "ok corona kills enough to be scary enough that we'll get support for a lockdown.."02:46
davros">. and we need this kind of transition..."02:46
davros"so lets do it.."02:47
tinwhiskersWell, I'm a supporter of a UBI of some form in the next 20-50 years. I don't think living like we are under these pandemic conditions is remotely feasible for a long period of time02:47
davrosi'll have to qualify that as a peak oiler02:47
ryoumai think lockdowns are honestly virus-related.  they are the rare exception to the rule that stuff occurs because establishment actors want them to occur and uses pretexts.02:47
davrosmy "middle case scenario" is a 80% die off02:48
davrosmy "best case scenario" is finding some way to keep 7billion people alive without oil02:48
davrosand my "worst case scenario" is extinction :)02:48
davrosi've always expected "the future" would bring "wartime style food and fuel rationing" (due to oil depletion)02:48
davrosregarding mobility:02:49
davroswe need (IMO) to re-organize such that 90% of what people do is within walking & cycling distance02:49
ryoumai would guess that as oil prices rise, exploration increases and alternatives gain traction.  i'm sure there are precedents.02:49
[Hoffman]yes02:49
[Hoffman]thats the story of shale oil02:49
davrosshale oil is just another financial crisis in the making02:50
davrosits not viable at a low oil price02:50
[Hoffman]you are02:50
[Hoffman]it doesnt need to be02:50
davrosand the oil users can't take the price it would need to make it viable02:50
tinwhiskersyes, but if renewables are cheaper than those increasingly difficult alternatives they don't get used02:50
[Hoffman]they just switch on and off depending on when it's economically feasible02:50
davrosthe market will eventually switch to renewables, yes02:50
davrosbut there's no reason in physics or econmics that renewables must keep our current way of life going02:51
davrosthats just wishful thinking02:51
davrosour way of life is based on the abundant, energy dense fossil fuels02:51
davrosonce abundant^02:51
tinwhiskersdavros: well, I agree that this is a great situation to act as a catalyst for change but I don't think in reality much will change at all.02:51
[Hoffman]there's also no reason in physics or economics that renewables wouldnt be able to keep our current way of life going02:52
davrosenergy density02:52
[Hoffman]unnecessary02:52
davrosminerals for batteries02:52
davrosminerals to make panels02:52
[Hoffman]theyre there02:52
[Hoffman]waiting to be used02:52
davrosthere's supposedly some huge amount of solar energy hitting us but we can't collect it , store it ,move it to where it's needed02:52
davrosit's dispersed thinly 02:52
[Hoffman]that just takes work to fix02:53
davrosit takes a huge amount of the right minerals to build the devices02:53
[Hoffman]that's okay.02:53
davrosand currently those devices are being built using fossil fuels02:53
[Hoffman]doesn't mean they need to be.02:53
davrosso we dont even know if these material choices etc work in a renewable powered world02:53
[Hoffman]I'm sure the machines dont care where the power comes from02:54
davroswhat we need to demonstrate is that we can build renewable energy devices using renewable energy02:54
tinwhiskersI really don't see that as an issue02:54
davrosthere's distortions in the market calculations from incentives02:54
[Hoffman]yeah02:54
tinwhiskerselectric motors work just fine02:54
davrosthey do work fine02:54
[Hoffman]davros: you call it distortion, I call it shaping02:55
davrosbut we've yet to demonstrate we can scale up their useage02:55
[Hoffman]we've yet to demonstrate we can't, either02:55
tinwhiskersis there any reason to think we can't?02:55
davrosusually engineering claims are over-optimistic02:55
davrosthings go wrong when you try and scale them up02:55
tinwhiskersit's not like they don't exist02:55
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 00:43 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: Queensland offers Virgin $200m rescue package – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB202:56
davrosuntil we've proved it, we have to assume the worst02:56
[Hoffman]nah, we dont02:56
[Hoffman]we can assume the most likely02:56
davrosconsider that we've known this is coming for decades02:56
tinwhiskerserm. ok. I disagree02:56
[Hoffman]known what was coming02:56
davrosand we dragged our heels. is that because a renewable powered life just isn't viable?02:56
[Hoffman]what are you talking about02:56
davrosknown that oil will one day run out02:57
ryoumait has not run out?02:57
[Hoffman]it hasnt02:57
davrosor more accurately "the production will go into terminal decline"02:57
tinwhiskers*this* hasn't happened yet02:57
davroswe'll be using oil 100,500 years from now02:57
davrosjust nowhere near the current amount02:57
davrosif we're using 10% the current amount its 90% accurate to say it ran out02:58
[Hoffman]it has not run out02:58
davrosit'll be down to something like 1% when you factor in EROEI02:58
davrosit's already past peak02:58
tinwhiskersI'm all for phasing out using oil for fuel, and we're capable of doing that if there was political or cultural will. I don't think covid-19 will change that very much.02:58
[Hoffman]it has not run out02:58
davros"i haven't died yet so i never will"02:58
davrosyou dig it up, you burn it , its gone02:59
[Hoffman]you're talking about it as if its an issue02:59
[Hoffman]so far it isnt02:59
ryoumai don't get the connection between virus and peak oil, or have any awareness of evidence of peak oil (i am ignorant, however)02:59
davrosyou cannot have a lasting civilization based on digging up and burning a resource02:59
ubLIX"usually engineering claims are over-optimistic" - engineering disciplines are characterised by a concern for precision; well, except for software engineering; i think when you said engineering, you meant marketing02:59
tinwhiskersif you really need oil in a post-oil future where you have other energy sources you can synthesise it02:59
[Hoffman]we'll be running into climate change issues long before peak oil becomes an issue02:59
tinwhiskersright02:59
[Hoffman]like, world flooding issues03:00
davrospeak oil and climate change are 2 sides of the same coin03:00
ryoumawe are alraedy running into climate change issues03:00
davrosits the same underlying problem03:00
[Hoffman]no they arent03:00
davrosusing a resource faster than it forms03:00
davrosusing a resource faster than it's waste product is recycled into more of the resource03:00
[Hoffman]climate change doesnt care how fast it forms03:00
davrosits the same underlying problem: sustainability.03:00
davrosclimate change is happening because we're putting CO2 back into the atmosphere faster than photosynthesis can pull it out03:01
[Hoffman]I have considered your application to lump "peak oil" into the climate change debate03:01
[Hoffman]my verdict03:01
[Hoffman]is to deny the application03:01
davroseverything is connected03:01
[Hoffman]I have concluded that the problem of "peak oil", which is, we're going to run out of oil and thus suddenly not have fuel or new plastic, is different from the issue of climate change, which is, the world will flood03:01
ryoumaand more03:02
davrostinwhiskers just said "if you had another energy source, you could synthesise oil"03:02
[Hoffman]in other words, we dont have to worry about peak oil, or running out of oil, or suddenly not having fuel03:02
davroswhich is true03:02
davrosbut the problem is "will we have another energy source that matches oil"03:02
davrosif we do, we could  pull CO2 out of the atmosphere fast enough03:02
[Hoffman]it wont matter03:02
tinwhiskersyes, if we want. solar/wind/tidal/nuclear03:02
[Hoffman]we'll all be dead before that question is asked03:02
[Hoffman]due to climate change03:02
tinwhiskersboth nuclear and tidal are base-load capable.03:03
tinwhiskerssolar + crazy batteries could possibly do base load but it's a stretch03:03
tinwhiskersoh, and of course hydro is base-load capable03:03
[Hoffman]who needs oil when we're all dead03:03
davrosif you're right then we'll see my "optimist scenario", i.e we'll avoid a massive die off03:03
davrosi hope you're right03:03
davrosbut i prefer proof03:03
[Hoffman]the die off will be from climate change03:03
davros"hope is a shitty hedge"03:03
[Hoffman]not running out of oil03:03
davrosbut 03:03
davrosif there is a suitable energy source..03:03
[Hoffman]then it wont matter03:04
davros.. we could just pull Co2 out of the atmosphere 03:04
[Hoffman]we'll all die from climate change first03:04
[Hoffman]we wont03:04
[Hoffman]there wont be a fix03:04
davrosso the real question is "is there a suitable energy source to replace fossil fuels"03:04
[Hoffman]we're doomed03:04
ryouma"just"?03:04
[Hoffman]it doesnt matter03:04
davrosywa03:04
[Hoffman]we'll all die before we need to replace fossil fuels03:04
davrosif we had the holy grail, fusion,03:04
[Hoffman]humanity is doomed03:04
[Hoffman]RIP03:05
[Hoffman]it wont matter03:05
[Hoffman]even then03:05
[Hoffman]all the fusion plants will flood03:05
davroswe could just power carbon capture03:05
[Hoffman]we couldnt03:05
[Hoffman]its not going to happen dude03:05
[Hoffman]we're dead03:05
[Hoffman]DEAD03:05
davrosit is fundementally an issue of energy03:05
danielp3344plants!03:05
[Hoffman]no it isnt03:05
ubLIXdavros: there is a company in BC, Canada that is pulling CO2 out of the atmosphere and using it to synthesise fuel03:06
davrosif we had enough *other* energy we could pull the CO2 back out of the atmosphere03:06
danielp3344Ethanol and wood gas are great replacements for fossil fuels03:06
[Hoffman]it's fundamentally an issue of, is humanity willing to put forth the effort required to capture that carbon03:06
[Hoffman]and the answer is, no03:06
davrosits not limited by effort03:06
davrosits limited by energy sources03:06
[Hoffman]it is03:06
[Hoffman]nope03:06
[Hoffman]need to develop the tech to do it03:06
[Hoffman]need to build that tech03:06
danielp3344Carbon capture is hard, also it would not work well on cars or portable engines03:06
navonodits all the fault of capitalism03:06
[Hoffman]its all the fault of people03:07
danielp3344But if you burn ethanol that carbon has to be sucked out of the air by a plant to be used again03:07
davrosyou could power grow lights03:07
davroslet plants do it03:07
davrosalgae03:07
danielp3344davros: we have a sun03:07
davrosif you had fusion03:07
davrosall plants are solar powered03:08
danielp3344the sun puts out way more energy than we use03:08
davrosand they can't pull carbon out as fast as we emit it03:08
navonodits true03:08
davrosthats the measure of unsustainability03:08
danielp3344davros: if all your cabon comes from plants it must03:08
[Hoffman]and we never will03:08
[Hoffman]RIP humanity03:08
davrosif we had enough energy (by our current standards) we could pull carbon out of the air as fast as we emit it03:08
davrosthe problem is fundementally energy03:08
danielp3344because to get more fuel you'd need to plant more plants03:08
davrosalgae03:08
[Hoffman]no it isnt03:08
davroseasy to grow03:09
[Hoffman]the problem is fundamentally will03:09
[Hoffman]whos gonna build those fusion power plants03:09
danielp3344davros: 500 million years ago or so, earth's atmosphere had much more co2 than it does now03:09
davrosyes03:09
[Hoffman]whos gonna use the energy to pull carbon out of the atmosphere03:09
navonodpeople said the oceans would balance out the greenhouse gases but they actually make the problem worse03:09
davrosover time nature has reduced the CO2 level03:09
danielp3344[Hoffman]: The sun is a fusion plant03:09
[Hoffman]nobody, thats who03:09
[Hoffman]danielp3344: great lets just bring it here03:09
danielp3344Plants have put all that carbon in the ground, and we're digging it up and spewing it back into the air03:09
davrosit takes a lot of efffort to do offshore oil rigs03:09
davroswe have enough will and"effort"03:10
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 00:52 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: China pushes for 'comprehensive' economic reopening as global deaths pass 150,000 → https://is.gd/jkI38X03:10
danielp3344if we stop doing that, and collect carbon strait from the plants, it's a smaller, closed  cycle03:10
davroswe dont have any viable enregy sources that scale far enough03:10
[Hoffman]effort isnt will03:10
[Hoffman]we have the will to do stuff that makes huge corporations money03:10
izmost offshore oil rigs can't operate now with oil at it's current price03:10
danielp3344you people aren't listening03:10
[Hoffman]we dont have the will to do stuff that helps the earth and everyone on it for no reason03:10
danielp3344just stop drilling for oil and plant corn03:10
[Hoffman]thats why we're doomed03:10
davrosdanielp3344, you're suggesting biofuel03:11
danielp3344davros: yes03:11
davrosand i do not beleive biofuel will cut it03:11
danielp3344ethanol in particular03:11
davrosit works, but it will not produce as much fuel as we use today03:11
danielp3344at least here in the USA we grow way more corn than we need03:11
davrosthe USA has 4.5% of the worlds population03:11
davrosironically its the most oil addicted nation, and the best placed to switch to renewables03:12
danielp3344davros: I've never looked at the numbers actually, one sec03:12
davros330million / 7.8billion 03:12
danielp3344davros: I meant for energy consuption03:12
davros4%-5% whatever it is.. thats the ballpark03:12
danielp3344consumption*03:12
davrosbasically for biofuel you need a very low population density03:12
davroswhich is why I think fossil fuel depletion will bring about a massive die-off03:12
[Hoffman]nope03:13
[Hoffman]we'll all be dead already03:13
PTYdavros, environmental damage could do that 03:13
[Hoffman]decades earlier03:13
danielp3344[Hoffman]: we wouldn't all die03:13
PTYyes, if not centuries 03:13
[Hoffman]yep, all of us03:13
danielp3344what would kill us?03:13
[Hoffman]sea level rises03:13
izthis chat :b03:13
[Hoffman]flaming tornados03:13
[Hoffman]murdercanes03:13
davroseventually starvation, but fighting over the scraps most likely03:13
danielp3344[Hoffman]: sea level rise would trigger a huge die off, then plants would take over and bring them back03:14
danielp3344it's self regulating to an extent03:14
[Hoffman]plants would take over what03:14
[Hoffman]the ocean?03:14
[Hoffman]LOL03:14
danielp3344hopefully humanity sees that wall coming before it's too late03:14
[Hoffman]TOO LATE03:14
[Hoffman]ITS ALREADY TOO LATE03:14
danielp3344[Hoffman]: yes, just like the algae that first put oxygen in the atmosphere03:14
[Hoffman]there's no going back now03:14
[Hoffman]burn it all03:14
danielp3344[Hoffman]: you're not helping03:15
PTYhere is the article that estimates what would happen if we burned all the fossil fuels03:15
PTYhttps://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate303603:15
davrosyeah this POV is covered03:15
[Hoffman]danielp3344: that will be nice for when they evolve back into beings03:15
davrosstages of climate change response03:15
davros[1] "it might not be real"03:15
derpadminhopefully humanity sees that wall coming before it's too late : humanity : see the wall for years now, looks away03:15
davros[2] "ok maybe its real but its really chinas fault"03:15
danielp3344[Hoffman]: are you doing anything about this?03:15
[Hoffman]danielp3344: about what03:15
davros[3] "ok it's real and unstopable so burn it all"03:15
danielp3344davros: my response is "It's real and if people would stop having stupid arguments we could fix it"03:16
[Hoffman]too late; we're past the point of no return03:16
navonodgood one03:16
LjLand if we can't, this is imo not the place to gloat about it, if for some reason it gives anyone pleasure to gloat about it...03:16
[Hoffman]let the resource wars begin03:16
navonodhumans are adaptable03:16
davrosmyh response is it;'s tied to energy. if we had a viable energy source we could switch, but we're used to more than is available under a sustainable scenario03:16
danielp3344[Hoffman]: I propose you shut down whatever device you're using and let the rest of us live a bit longer03:17
[Hoffman]there's not a magical machine that consumes energy and sequesters carbon from the atmosphere03:17
[Hoffman]even if we had free energy03:17
navonodthe planet is literally the most complex system in the world... we as people do not understand all of its systems03:17
danielp3344[Hoffman]: yes there is03:17
davroscarbon capture machines have been built03:17
ubLIX[Hoffman]: actually there is03:17
davrosand you could power grow lights in tanks of algae03:17
[Hoffman]we would still be limited by will to do anything03:17
danielp3344[Hoffman]: just bubble air through water and collect the caebonic acid and stuff03:17
davrosif you had energy you could do it03:17
danielp3344carbonic*03:17
davrosits fundementally an energy issue03:17
ubLIXif we put down one industrial scale carbon capture plant for every city on Earth then we have an engineering problem we can tinker with03:18
[Hoffman]how dude03:18
danielp3344But plants create energy while consuming carbon03:18
[Hoffman]how do you do it with just energy and no machines03:18
davrosduh03:18
danielp3344Plants also self replicate03:18
navonodits true.. I'm an herbalist03:18
[Hoffman]duh03:18
davrosi mean use energy and a machine03:18
navonodeach plant does it at a different speed too03:18
[Hoffman]who is gonna make that machine03:18
davrosbut its fundementally a question of "do we have enough energy"03:18
danielp3344[Hoffman]: The plants!03:18
[Hoffman]no, it's fundamentally a question of "who's gonna build it"03:19
LjL[Hoffman], do you have anything constructive here, or just "we're all going to die, let the wars begin, *rubs hands*"?03:19
davroswe can make the machines03:19
davrosthe question is can we power them03:19
[Hoffman]or rather, who's gonna fund it03:19
[Hoffman]LjL: I feel that realism is constructive03:19
danielp3344[Hoffman]: I built a wood gas generator to run my truck off plants03:19
danielp3344It's cheaper than gas too03:19
[Hoffman]LjL: admittedly, it doesnt make us feel good03:19
[Hoffman]but it's constructive nonetheless03:19
LjLhow so?03:19
LjLwhat does it construct?03:19
davrosanyone who has property around the coast has an incentive to fund it03:19
ubLIX[Hoffman]: to be realistic here, you need to have domain expertise03:19
[Hoffman]because being more aware of reality helps us make decisions as a result03:20
davrosbut there's also ways to pull carbon out of the air and make something saleable as a result03:20
davroslike plastics03:20
LjL[Hoffman], but your premise seems to be that no decisions we can still make can let us avoid the unavoidable03:20
[Hoffman]LjL: that doesnt mean it doesnt inform decisions03:20
[Hoffman]e.g. if you plan on grinding the next 20-30 years and then retiring all nice and cushy03:20
[Hoffman]maybe change those plans03:20
[Hoffman]and make the most of the next 20 or 30 years03:20
danielp3344[Hoffman]: no way we'll all be dead in 20 years03:21
[Hoffman]hope springs eternal!!!03:21
davros50% of us could be03:21
danielp3344[Hoffman]: I'd bet you anything you want that earth's population will be bigger than today in 20 years03:21
davrosmy middle scenario prediction is 2billion survivors by the end of the century03:21
[Hoffman]danielp3344: ok03:21
[Hoffman]1 doge03:21
[Hoffman]its a deal03:21
[Hoffman]pm me in 20 years03:21
ryoumaat this time i'm more concerned about the virus, and about those who have higher priorities, including laziness and agendas, than the virus, and the effect of those priorities03:22
LjLi don't like this conversation03:22
LjLi agree with ryouma03:22
danielp3344LjL: me either03:22
danielp3344somehow I was supposed to be doing school work, but IRC....03:22
[Hoffman]yeah I wanna live for at least 20 or 30 years03:22
navonodinsane people in Michigan03:22
[Hoffman]screw this virus man03:22
LjL##climatechange or ##doom or something probably exists. i can understand that this topic is somehow related, and tangentially sprang up from, the virus, but now it's just a flamewar of "we'll live" vs "we'll die"03:22
[Hoffman]I sees a topic, I joins a topic03:23
[Hoffman]¯\_(ツ)_/¯03:23
LjLif you want to be like "screw this virus", then this channel is... well... either for you, or not for you, depending on how you mean it03:23
LjLwell, fair enough03:23
LjLi declare the topic over!03:23
LjL\o/03:23
danielp3344[Hoffman]: step 3 is supposed to be 'talk about the topic'03:23
danielp3344as in /topic03:23
[Hoffman]ok03:23
[Hoffman]very handsome topic03:23
[Hoffman]the greatest03:24
Specthe best topic, really03:24
navonodMohammad ali?03:24
[Hoffman]https://www.wsj.com/articles/south-koreas-new-coronavirus-twist-recovered-patients-test-positive-again-11587145248?mod=e2tw03:27
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews at 01:08 UTC: worldnews: China Says There Is No Coronavirus Cover-Up Because Cover-Ups Are Not Permitted → https://is.gd/ThIDVC03:31
tinwhiskersThat's sound logic :-/03:31
navonodLOL03:32
navonodfucking sound logic03:32
tinwhiskers*cough* tiananmen *cough*03:32
navonodmurdering homeless people doesn't happen either03:32
navonodbecause its illegal03:32
ecovnorth korea logic03:32
tinwhiskersright03:32
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 01:31 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: China pushes for 'comprehensive' economic reopening as global deaths pass 150,000 → https://is.gd/jkI38X03:38
ryoumaare they unwilling to use the word as consistently for some reason?  why combine 2 things sometimes when theyare related and sometimes when not?03:41
tinwhiskersryouma: I hear ya. I hate the "as" thing used to link two entirely unrelated items. I want to slap the editor.03:45
davros*cough* tianamen *cough*03:47
davros*cough* covid19 *cough* .. *cough* *cough* oh shit03:47
LjLryouma, tinwhiskers: i don't know if "editor" is the name for the person who decides about headlines, but let's definitely reinstate corporal punishment for whoever does that, in general03:48
LjLheadlines are almost always misleading03:48
LjLand i believe the journalists who actually writes the articles tend to hate the headlines they are imposed03:49
ubLIXjust so you know, the 'cover up' headline you're reacting to is a reddit reaction to this: https://nationalfile.com/china-says-there-is-no-coronavirus-cover-up-because-cover-ups-are-not-permitted/03:50
ubLIXwhich mediabiasfactcheck.com judges to be "Overall, we rate National File an extreme right Tin Foil Hat Conspiracy website based on the promotion of unproven/debunked claims and a Strong Pseudoscience purveyor based on using junk science to support claims."03:51
ubLIXI am my country are a natural enemy of China.03:51
ubLIXCan we just go ahead and change the channel name to ##HatchetJobs03:51
LjLoh i was reacting to nothing in particular, just headlines in general03:51
LjLit's not like i read what Brainstorm posts03:52
ubLIXBecause I am getting pretty fucking bored of pointing out the moronic distortions of journalism that are going on here03:52
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 01:45 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China reports no new deaths, global cases total more than 2.2 million → https://is.gd/xpK8YI03:52
ubLIXAnd bored of having to seem to be defending China 03:53
ubLIX</rant>03:53
ubLIXs/I am my/I and my/03:56
ubLIXfucking keyboard warriors03:57
izthe pres of the usa is in a hurry to blame anyone but himself, and so are his loyal media outlets and more fanatical supporters03:58
izso i think that's why there's so much more of that recently03:58
davrosi bet most of the "its just flu" people are trumpers04:02
davrosand he probably estimated correctly originally that a lot of his supporters didnt care about it, hence his original statements that "its a hoax"04:04
davrosthe UK government fucked up aswell but trump's u-turn is just amazing04:05
davros"its just a a hoax" -> "we blame the chinese and WHO for not warning us"04:05
davroshow the hell do his supporters rationalise that04:05
izwell, w/ trump there's a method to his madness.. the states he is suggesting over twitter to liberate themselves are battleground states w/ dem leadership04:06
izbut let's just put that can of worms back on the shelf04:07
ynhof[m]Can placement 10/10, would recommend again04:08
ynhof[m](Claps)04:09
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 02:05 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: another death in both Tasmania and Queensland  – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB204:13
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 02:15 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports 623 new cases, another death → https://is.gd/xpK8YI04:20
xlxl[m]yo04:26
xlxl[m]free speech zone?04:27
danielp3344xlxl: pardon?04:28
xlxl[m]asking if this place has free speech standards04:28
xlxl[m]or do you guys not allow what is considered "misinformation"04:28
danielp3344All places have free speech, until they don't04:28
ubLIXthis place has anti-stupidity standards04:28
ubLIXproceed at your own risk04:28
danielp3344speak your mind and see how long you can keep it up :D04:28
danielp3344xlxl: now I want to know04:29
xlxl[m]what do you wanna know04:29
danielp3344I'll listen04:29
xlxl[m]nah nothing just wanted to know if free speech is allowed04:29
danielp3344xlxl: oh :/04:29
danielp3344I assumed you had something to say04:29
xlxl[m]well i dont believe the virus exists04:30
xlxl[m]or is dangerous04:30
danielp3344you can say whatever you want but you might get kicked out04:30
xlxl[m]i guess thats something04:30
danielp3344xlxl: but conway is dead04:30
danielp3344And, why wouldn't it exist?04:30
ynhof[m]I am thinking we could meet in ²0²² if I build a submarine04:30
xlxl[m]no proof it does04:30
danielp3344xlxl: well, unless you've been there there is no proof china exists04:31
danielp3344yet you believe it does?04:31
ynhof[m]Yeah I feel the same xlxl that is so weird, no one else has said this though04:31
ynhof[m]I even got infected04:31
xlxl[m]i mean scientific proof 04:31
xlxl[m]not conspiracies04:31
danielp3344xlxl: I'm confused04:32
xlxl[m]like how do you know that people are getting sick from covid 1904:32
xlxl[m]who proved that covid 19 is contagious04:32
danielp3344xlxl: hospitals say they are?04:32
xlxl[m]and causing infections04:32
xlxl[m]how do hospitals know04:33
pynahttps://i.redd.it/kt5tja54k4t41.jpg04:33
danielp3344xlxl: because a lot more people are getting sick and dying04:33
xlxl[m]actually not true04:33
xlxl[m]have you seen the pneumonia deaths04:33
danielp3344xlxl: I have not04:33
xlxl[m]or CVD04:33
xlxl[m]they have decreased04:33
xlxl[m]less people dying from all cause mortalities04:34
pynaoh is this the sea lion militia04:34
danielp3344xlxl: at least in places like Italy, many more people were hospitalized than normal04:34
danielp3344Birosso: oi!04:34
BirossoWhat?04:35
ubLIXwell this is all very entertaining04:35
xlxl[m]okay sure even if i believe that suddenly more people in italy got hospitalized 04:35
danielp3344Birosso: *I* am a matrix user04:35
xlxl[m]how do you know its covid 1904:35
danielp3344I'd like to think I'm a decent person (at least in this room)04:35
ubLIXxlxl[m]: why would you doubt it?04:35
xlxl[m]it happened in northern italy at a time where pollution was through the roof04:35
xlxl[m]and04:35
BirossoDo you quote text with angle brackets?04:35
BirossoDo you?04:35
danielp3344xlxl: the thing that is causing the hospitalizations is called covid1904:35
ynhof[m]This part is interesting let them tell us about the pollutants04:36
xlxl[m]but how do you know its covid19. 04:36
danielp3344xlxl: that's just what we call it :P04:36
xlxl[m]ya but how do you know its a viral infection04:37
xlxl[m]maybe its environmental 04:37
danielp3344xlxl: I don't actually04:37
danielp3344I'm just taking people's word for it04:37
danielp3344why shouldn't it be?04:37
ynhof[m]But you can't just call all yellow food cheese. It actually has to be cheese.04:37
ynhof[m]Just calling it covid19 is an oversight04:37
xlxl[m]because it was never proven to spread from person to person or cause any disease04:37
xlxl[m]like there are scientific standards04:38
xlxl[m]like04:38
danielp3344xlxl: well it hasn't been very long04:38
xlxl[m]Koch's postulates04:38
danielp3344xlxl: have you an alternative hypothesis?04:38
davrosxlxl[m]  so you think it's a globalist plot to get people to get chipped through a vaccine, or they just thought panicking the whole world economy into shutdown would be a laugh04:38
danielp3344I guess I don't see how it matters?04:38
xlxl[m]a golden standard to prove if a virus is infectious and dangerous04:38
davrosfor it to be made up there'd have to be motivation04:38
davrosxlxl[m], out of interest what shape do you think the earth is04:39
danielp3344davros: well, collapsing the world economy could let someone emerge as a powerful entity04:39
xlxl[m]i mean i could only speculate the reason04:39
xlxl[m]round04:39
xlxl[m]why?04:39
danielp3344davros: its a triangle04:39
danielp3344well, lots of triangles04:39
ynhof[m]Misinformation = engagement²04:39
danielp3344lol04:40
LjLxlxl[m], you're aware we don't take completely out-there, not even *close* to scientifically accepted theories, here?04:40
xlxl[m]i suggest this one video04:40
tinwhiskersxlxl[m]: the effects on the lungs are fairly specific, and we are doing PCR tests to confirm the virus is present and in high numbers. There's not much to dispute really. Are you seriously saying you don't believe the virus exists?04:40
davrosits too much effort to fake this04:40
xlxl[m]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3LgrcDAlJs&t=112s04:40
xlxl[m]for an introductory 04:40
ynhof[m]No wonder we believe the virus is fake, they only publish nonsense so we read it04:40
davrosbasically you need all the hospitals around the world to be in onit04:40
danielp3344xlxl: can you summarize? my internet conection cant really handle video04:41
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 02:33 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X04:41
danielp3344LjL: hey!04:41
ynhof[m]Rude04:41
tinwhiskersdanielp3344: he's be quieted for spreading nonsense04:41
Butterfly^https://www.theonion.com/billions-of-viruses-gathered-outside-michigan-state-cap-184292543504:41
danielp3344I object to this04:42
BirossoTypical Matrix user.04:42
danielp3344He wasn't doing any harm04:42
LjL-MatrixI was not a part in this conversation, but when I asked whether he was aware of this channel's general ideas he didn't answer and instead just told us to watch some videos... but beyond that, I had been asked to ban him on the Matrix side because not all IRC ops can do it from there04:43
ynhof[m]For once I had someone to agree with04:43
tinwhiskersdanielp3344: if you're looking for people who are spreading obvious misinformation you need to look somewhere other than this. This channel is for discussions of things of a more empirical nature.04:43
danielp3344Wasn't even being offensive04:43
davroshe was talking utter nonsense though04:43
BirossoDisrupting the channel by spreading nonsense (for extend periods of time) warrants a quiet, if you ask me.04:43
ynhof[m]Well I am glad I keep my m04:43
danielp3344tinwhiskers: I didn't watch the video but I don't think he said anything untrue04:44
LjLdanielp3344, you/he mentioned northern Italy. i am there. we may have had some "pollution", for sure, i haven't checked levels. we SURE AS HELL aren't running our crematoriums over capacity without relatives being able to say goodbye for... pollution. that's just insulting.04:44
LjLif you call that "doing no harm", well, yeah, i guess technically you cannot physically harm someone over IRC04:44
LjLin my view that's enough harm though04:44
tinwhiskersdanielp3344: he said the virus doesn't exist and the sickness is just environmental pollution04:44
danielp3344tinwhiskers: he did not say that04:44
danielp3344even if he did04:44
danielp3344tinwhiskers: can you *prove* it?04:44
davroshe did04:44
BirossoProve what, Daniel?04:45
danielp3344Birosso: prove the virus exists04:46
davrosok to be fair - he said "MAYBE it's environmental" , but he also explicitely said he didn't beleive the virus existed04:46
danielp3344I mean I haven't gotten a chance to study any cases04:46
ynhof[m]I am sorry for siding with them04:46
tinwhiskersdanielp3344: stop the nonsense please04:46
BirossoI'm not a medical expert, virologist, epidemiologist or what have you.04:46
davrosthats why i asked him what shape the earth is04:46
danielp3344tinwhiskers: I'm not adhering to his theory I'm just saying it was bad form to bad him04:46
danielp3344ban him*04:46
davrosits just like a flat earther chat04:46
BirossoWhy should the burden of proving it fall upon me?04:46
davros"i haven't seen the virus so i dont beleive it"04:47
danielp3344Birosso: it shouldn't04:47
LjLdanielp3344, there is no "free speech" right in this particular place04:47
BirossoYou just asked us to prove it!04:47
LjLif you think there is, by law, then you have the law wrong04:47
danielp3344but if you want to prove him wrong you should do so rather than banning him04:47
ynhof[m]Eh it was likely a jokester anyway, let it goo04:47
tinwhiskersdanielp3344: we have a policy in this channel that obvious lies or misinformation are strictly off topic. 04:47
danielp3344LjL: I didn't claim there was, I was just complaining about the lack04:47
davrossomeone coming in with that... "the virus isn't real" ... is flat-earther level insane04:47
BirossoHe was claiming something that went against what the experts are telling us.04:47
BirossoYou know, the people who are supposed to handle this sort of thing.04:48
BirossoThe burden of proof falls upon him.04:48
danielp3344Birosso: agreed04:48
LjLBirosso, you mean like... the WHO telling us that masks are useless? :>04:48
danielp3344but he wasn't trying to prove anything I dont think?04:48
danielp3344LjL: yeah I was gonna say...04:48
tinwhiskersgiving advice the the virus doesn't exist or is no worse than the flu can cause harm if that message is widely believed like on some other social media platforms. We don't accept that bullshit here.04:48
BirossoLjL: Experts are people. They're susceptible to corruption and aren't infallible.04:48
Specto be fair, the virus is very tiny and difficult to see.04:48
BirossoBut at some point, we have to trust them.04:48
danielp3344Birosso: you never have to trust anyone04:49
danielp3344but it often works better if you do04:49
BirossoLjL: Did they actually say that, verbatim?04:49
jesterdaniel thinks nothing kill all those people04:49
SpecBirosso: trust me, i'm an expert.04:49
LjLdanielp3344, but really, although i got into this conversation late... it was my line of thought pretty much from the beginning that i wouldn't accept completely out-there theories in this channel. i don't want them. i don't want all of us to waste resources, and perhaps even get enraged (because we're humans and we happen) on every single person coming in with some foolish theory that's both foolish and offensive to the actual suffering going on from this04:49
danielp3344people without a motive are generally best to trust04:49
davroswe take a lot of what we're taught and what the media says on faith but to fake the existance of this virus would be very hard04:49
LjLBirosso, no04:49
BirossoSpec: I do. Please lathe my wood.04:49
davrosit would be a flat earther level conspiracy04:50
danielp3344LjL: well, it was more interesting that complaining that we'll all be dead in 30 years :/04:50
davrosall the worlds hospitals or all the media outlets and all the governments being "in on it"04:50
SpecBirosso: https://imgur.com/a/jUA7CVX04:50
LjLdanielp3344, well... can't deny that04:50
ynhof[m]Anyone here get pretty sick?04:51
danielp3344Also your stance is almost as ridiculous as his04:51
danielp3344yn×hof: yes but not covid04:51
BirossoSpec: Now I want one too.04:51
SpecBirosso: it didn't explode this time :)04:51
ynhof[m]Sorry to hear that. Daniel04:51
Specynhof[m]: i've been pretty sick before, ya04:51
danielp3344I'll be fine04:52
LjLdanielp3344, my stance is how i run this channel though. now if i'm guilty of applying unequal standards to this person compared to the other person you were arguing against earlier, yes, i may very well be guilty of that. honestly i was close to banning the other one, and this time, i banned because i was technically asked to. which lets me bring in the topic that other ops don't necessarily behave exactly the same as me (but for that matter, i won't 04:53
LjLbehave the same one day as the next), and this is expected, and i think this is okay, and i don't actually want to create rules and policies that must be followed. right now, seeing the scrollback, i can only endorse the ban, anyway.04:53
BirossoToo long. Did not read.04:53
danielp3344Birosso: can I get some?04:53
BirossoYou want some?04:54
BirossoAll the way over there...04:54
LjLdanielp3344, only if you jump high enough, i think he's doing some pretty impressive throws04:54
BirossoOn the other side of the bridge?04:54
ynhof[m]Idon't think you know what that means Daniel04:54
danielp3344yn×hof: It's more fun to think about04:54
Birosso*scoffs* Matrix users04:54
LjLBirosso: troll04:54
SpecLjL: one thing i wonder about is, if this thang is so infectious and has such a great number of asymptomatic carriers, how can/could china possibly have  identified an origin? they would have only been aware when the first couple severe cases were reported04:54
BirossoLjL: Me?04:54
danielp3344Birosso: I could just as easily do that about IRC04:54
danielp3344LjL: at least he doesn't ban people :/04:55
ubLIXSpec: they have not identified an origin04:55
tinwhiskersSpec: the date of infection helps a bit, then contact tracing and genetic analysis to fine-tune it04:55
LjLSpec, there's always been a bit of doubt about the seafood market being an origin, tbh. but also i'm not a huge believer in a "great" number of asymptomatic carriers... at least depending on how we define "great"04:55
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 02:50 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: three more deaths take national total to 68 – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB204:55
LjLSpec, 50% of people infected being asymptomatic? i can believe that, it's sort of consistent with the Iceland analysis too, i think...? but, 50% or more of our population already having gotten it? nope.04:56
tinwhiskersagreed04:56
Specwell, but i mean....04:56
LjLSpec, now honestly i haven't read either study to the extent of knowing what amount of asymptomatic people they are assuming/inferring04:56
davrosi'm seeing some articles claiming "recent antibody testing indicates a higher number of asympomatic cases than previously thought",  chances of this being wishful thinking? (to inspire the idea that its lethality is lower)?04:56
Specsurely people (even first vector) got it/spread it/recovered, possibly even without knowing04:56
Spechow can you trace that?04:56
tinwhiskerscontact tracing and testing04:57
LjLSpec, the early one may never have been traced04:57
LjLones*04:57
davrosa claim like that makes me think it's over-optimism at work (tell people what they want to hear to make your organization popular)04:58
Specand antibody tests aren't enough to determine genetic lineage, right?04:58
LjLSpec, but as to others, yeah, if you can do what tinwhiskers said effectively... you find someone *with* symptoms, they test positive, you trace their contacts, and some of the ones *without* symptoms also test positive04:58
LjLSpec, i think i can answer no to that. but PCR tests can04:58
Specyeah, did/does china have the number of tests to do that at hte time (december/january)?04:58
tinwhiskersSpec: have you seen this site? https://nextstrain.org/ncov 04:58
Spectinwhiskers: yeap04:58
davros      there was the navy ship or something where they tested almost everyone04:58
ynhof[m]I have a suspicion/superstition there are long term asymptomatic or partially symptomatic carriers that will not realise their infection, and will carry for months04:58
yuriwhohey does anyone here use Slack as their irc client?04:59
LjLdavros, it all depends on what they mean by "previously" thought. at some point it was thought to be like... 14% asymptomatics, and that was "considered high"04:59
LjL(going by something that was said here recently)04:59
LjLyuriwho, yikes, no.04:59
davrosok 25%->50%  = increase04:59
tinwhiskersynhof[m]: you mean complete speculation?04:59
SpecLjL: i agree that it is a "huge" number, but not like, huge compared to population04:59
davrosplus maybe a navy ship had exceptionally healthy people?04:59
yuriwhoLjL: it's for people that are glued to their slack for work04:59
ynhof[m]Very minor anecdotal evidence, which some may say is worse05:00
Specjust that, perhaps, this means it'll be a huge challenge, or impossible, to determine origin05:00
davrosnot sedentary average westerners but active military personle05:00
tinwhiskersynhof[m]: right05:00
Speceven ...region05:00
LjLynhof[m], tinwhiskers: maybe not *complete* speculation, when recovery from this may be quite long, and in some cases, after supposed recovery, people tested positive again (and unless something went very wrong in Korea, these are not just a couple of cases)05:00
Spectinwhiskers: although to your point, perhaps its infectiousness+% chance of severeness betrays the region and isolates it well enough05:00
LjLSpec, unless we get LUCKY, and it turns out the virus keeps lurking around in our nerves or somewhere!05:01
LjLSpec, then we can just, you know, take a bone marrow sample or an autopsy, and run a PCR05:01
Specoh, right05:01
Speci hope we are not so fortunate05:01
ryoumaasymptomatic cases is not a good thing.  it means much more spreading.  assumign they can spread.05:01
tinwhiskersynhof[m]: there's always a chance there are some "Typhoid Marys" but they are probably not a significant number because they would likely have shown in the various contact tracing/testing work done to date if there were a lot of them.05:01
Specryouma: it does lower the lethality rate though05:02
Spectinwhiskers: you think?05:02
tinwhiskersI do05:02
Specit sounds reasonable unless there is a flaw in the process05:02
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 02:57 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports 623 new cases, another death: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI05:02
ynhof[m]Well as I mentioned earlier, the infection persisted in the pharynx for over a month (i heard on tv a while back). To me it is not a prepostorous idea05:02
ynhof[m]For rare cases in china05:02
tinwhiskersmore significantly is the mundane presymptomatic and asymptomatic cases. Typhoid Marys (those that persist with the disease and spread it) are unlikely to be common.05:03
LjLryouma, Spec: i think what you're saying is a point that much of current discussion hinges to. on the one hand, if you have more asymptomatic cases, it means the CFR goes down... to which i say, who cares? it's still the same exact number of deaths. BUT then it also mean more immune people (hopefully); however, if that number is still like just 3% of the population, it means 97% are still to get it, and die in the numbers we've seen, except, 97% vs what 05:03
LjLwe've seen being 3%05:03
davrosyeah iuf the mortatliy is "just" 1.5% instead of 3%, thats still pretty high05:04
LjLso how many asymptomatic cases do we need for it to be "a good thing"?05:04
tinwhiskersMost significant of all are the presymptomatic cases but they are not nearly as exciting or scary as the asymptomatic cases so people tend to dwell on the latter.05:04
LjLhonestly i'm not sure, there are two or three things interacting05:04
davrosok 3.4%  was the mortality with 14-25% assumped asymptomatic05:04
davrosso if its 50% asymptomatic that reduces mortality to 2% ish ?05:05
LjLtinwhiskers, yeah there were indications from China(?) that most of the asymptomatic carriers found later developed symptoms. but this seems at odd with other findings. so i dunno05:05
davroscan't quite be bothered to calculate it properly but that ballpark05:05
davros2% of the population dieing is still like ww2 05:05
LjLdavros, it may be more than 50% though. it's just that *i* don't believe it's likely to be much more than 50%.05:05
LjLdavros, and then there is also, we're talking asymptomatic vs symptomatic; but in most countries, there are VERY symptomatic people who are still deemed "not symptomatic enough" to get their PCR test... and that's a different matter entirely05:06
LjL(and then sometimes those die, at home, and don't even get counted)05:06
LjLso again there are a few confounding/confusing factors interacting05:06
davrosyeah and symptomatic people who themselves dont think it's anything more than a normal cold 05:06
davrossothey dont even bother05:07
LjLdavros, Italian authorities love to use this word "paucisymptomatic" for those05:07
LjLwhich nobody understands05:07
LjLit means "who have few symptoms", literally05:07
davrosok05:07
LjLgod it's late05:07
ynhof[m]This is what happens when...05:08
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 03:01 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: federal government will not have access to data from 'voluntary and transparent' tracing app – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB205:09
LjLyeah sure05:10
LjLi bet i won't even have the actual ability to run the "voluntary" app they'll make for us here05:10
LjLit's going to require google stuff that i don't have05:10
tinwhiskersThis article claims that in California the cases are 50-85 times higher than the confirmed cases: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/antibody-testing-reveals-coronavirus-widespread-known-thus-far-less-dangerous-expected/05:10
davrosyeah that seems unlikely to me05:11
tinwhiskersThat seems wildly high, and must have something to do with appalling testing if anything05:11
LjLtinwhiskers, yeah, we can't just say "the others are asymptomatic"05:11
LjLi'm sure you aren't even saying that05:11
LjLbut there is some sometimes-subconscious confusion over this i feel05:12
tinwhiskersmmm05:12
ryoumait all feels like sloppy science.  there has to be something systematic done in various places.05:12
tinwhiskersI'm not saying that, no. I'm highly suspicious of this claim. 05:12
tinwhiskersBut I posted it because it's the highest claim I've seen to date so is interesting aside from being suspicious05:12
LjLwe need antibody tests. good ones, that most science agrees with.05:13
LjLwe'll keep discussing all around this until we have them05:13
tinwhiskersyeah05:13
ryoumaand pcr done widely too05:13
ryoumaunless that is answered05:13
tinwhiskersasymptomatic cases are likely somewhere between 2 times and 50 times :-)05:13
ryoumain various compartments05:13
ryoumai mean, test all grocery workers in a whole city or something05:14
tinwhiskersthe few vaguely decent studies done to date suggest 50 times is wildly high unless the testing was just so abysmal as to inflate that figure so high.05:14
ryoumavarious roles are defined, so you eliminate lots of variables05:14
yuriwhowe will have good validated antibody tests very soon05:17
Chromanin%data Lebanon05:17
BrainstormChromanin: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 668 cases (0.0% of the population) and 21 deaths (3.1% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 19185 tests were performed (3.5% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 18.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data.05:17
tinwhiskersLjL: Oh, I see your point. Yes, many (most?) of those supposed 50-85 times could still be presymptomatic, and not asymptomatic.05:19
tinwhiskersfwiw this was antibody testing though05:20
LjLtinwhiskers, it's just a complex interplay between people who test positive with symptoms, people tho test positive without symptoms, people with symptoms who don't test at all, people without symptoms who don't test at all. it can probably be reduced to a system of equations where we have waaaay fewer than the required stuff to solve05:20
tinwhiskersyeah, fair05:20
LjLtinwhiskers, well, antibody testing was also used in that German town i think, and... bah now i don't really remember how many more people they found than the "known positives"05:21
LjLbut also that one was criticized already05:21
LjLbut what isn't05:21
LjLi'll go to sleep05:21
tinwhiskersyeah... umm 12 times there I think05:21
tinwhiskersgn LJL05:22
LjLtinwhiskers, that seems vaguely more plausible than 50ish05:22
tinwhiskersyes05:22
LjLbut the US was late on testing05:22
tinwhiskersyes05:22
tinwhiskersIt's as much a reflection on the quality of testing as potential asymptomatic cases at this stage. We can't really tell the difference between those two.05:23
LjLtinwhiskers, good thing we'll soon have TOTALLY VOLUNTARY apps that will ask us about our symptoms in detail on a daily basis before and after we meet other people!05:25
tinwhiskers:-)05:25
tinwhiskersIt's a shame governments are in general so despicably untrustworthy because there would be so much useful info come out of something like that if we could truly trust it to not be used against us.05:26
tinwhiskersbut it's just so easy for less scrupulous people to de-anonymise such data so this is why we can't have nice things.05:27
ryoumahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof05:27
ryoumai wonder if similar algorithms could be used05:27
ryoumawith open source05:27
tinwhiskersI think the data is inherently de-anonymisable because of the social interactions and locations05:28
tinwhiskerseven without the locations it would be05:28
ryoumai suppose05:29
tinwhiskersIt sure will be fascinating to see what we get from this data while we can though05:29
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 03:26 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports 623 new cases, another death: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI05:30
tinwhiskersI would sign up for the app but since there are no cases here and nobody else would sign up it might be a bit of a boring data point.05:32
tinwhiskersLonely, I'm soo lonely, I have nobooody, to bluetrace toooo05:33
ryoumado you have non-satellite internet?05:44
ryoumalike, a cable?05:44
tinwhiskersryouma: cellular05:56
tinwhiskersthere is a tower on a nearby island with a microwave link to the mainland.05:57
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 03:52 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: federal government will not have access to data from 'voluntary and transparent' tracing app – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB205:58
tinwhiskersobv. I chose this island based on the fact it had decent coverage05:58
JohnPeter%cases Antarctica06:08
BrainstormJohnPeter: Sorry, Antarctica not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name.06:08
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 04:05 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports 623 new cases, another death: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI06:12
jesterhttps://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/coronavirustracker/06:19
jesterhttps://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily06:21
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Texas judge rules all registered voters can vote by mail if they fear catching coronavirus (10491 votes) | https://redd.it/g3ep7r06:30
ryoumano i mean tonga in general06:32
ryoumathere is no mainland near tonga right?06:32
ryouma%data sealand06:33
Brainstormryouma: Sorry, sealand not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name.06:33
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 04:23 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: federal government will not have access to data from 'voluntary and transparent' tracing app – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB206:33
ryouma%data liechtenstein06:33
Brainstormryouma: In all areas, Liechtenstein, there are 79 cases (0.2% of the population) and 1 deaths (1.3% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 900 tests were performed (8.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.4% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 1.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Liechtenstein for time series data.06:33
tinwhiskersryouma: oh, right. there is an undersea fibre that links us to australia06:38
tinwhiskersone of the best things the King has done for the country really.06:38
tinwhiskersIt's about 4000km of fibre from Vava'u to Tongatapu to Fiji to somewhere near Canberra. It got "accidentally" cut in three places last year but unfortunately someone had sold of some of the parts for our satellite backup system so we went without internet for nearly two months :-(06:44
Heresaywere do i sign up for the trip to mars?06:48
Heresayhttps://www.mars-one.com/about-mars-one/vacancy06:51
HeresayMedical and Physical Requirements:The applicant must be free from any disease, any dependency on drugs, alcohol or tobacco;06:53
HeresayGLWT06:53
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 04:49 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Top 20 Countries by Coronavirus Deaths → https://is.gd/MnMsIw06:54
izHeresay: it's just a reality tv show, not a science or space mission06:55
Heresayit was a test for this social distancing thing06:57
izheh06:58
Luzz_??07:01
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 04:55 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports 623 new cases, another death: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI07:02
Heresaythe internet is but a global psycho/social experience 07:02
Heresayexperiment 07:02
adventurerHow reliable do  you think Russia's numbers are?07:03
Heresayadventurer are you trying to out russian trols?07:04
adventurerhaha07:04
adventurerI  am just  wondering07:04
adventureri mean they seem to be going not too bad if their numbers are right compared to some other  places especially  since they are right near China07:04
HeresayChina is almost covid19 free... so07:05
tinwhiskerstheir numbers are increasing again07:06
adventurerhaving any at all is  bad of course07:06
tinwhiskersChina, that is07:06
adventureryeah their curve doesn't look good07:06
adventurerbut their numbers are lower  than some other places. hopefully they can stop it growing07:06
adventurerI meant Russia...07:08
adventureroh China had a big increase in death update/correction the other day07:08
Heresaythats lo07:09
Heresayold cases 07:09
Heresayhttps://www.bbc.com/news/health-5230163307:10
HeresayDr Alison Pittard, Dean of the Faculty of Intensive Care Medicine, says it can take 12 to 18 months to get back to normal after any spell in critical care.07:10
Heresay"We do know patients take a considerable period, potentially months, to recover."07:12
adventureroh that is not good07:12
tinwhiskersadventurer: oh, yeah, I wasn't referring to the recent correction. I mean general cases are rising again.07:15
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 05:08 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X07:16
adventureroh that's no good07:16
Heresayhttps://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/south-korea-coronavirus-retesting-positive-intl-hnk/index.html07:18
HeresayRecovered coronavirus patients are testing positive again. Can you get re-infected?07:18
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 05:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany reports more than 3,600 new cases, 242 more deaths → https://is.gd/xpK8YI07:23
derpadminTrump will be trumping07:27
derpadminnot good indeed07:28
adventurerhe needs to stop Trumping07:29
derpadmindefinitely07:29
euod[m]the US is uh, not doing well with this.07:30
euod[m]there's a pandemic and the president is encouraging people to "liberate" states. like what the fuck is going on.07:30
derpadminI feel bad for the american people07:32
euod[m]a good portion of them seem brainless enough to just follow along.07:36
euod[m]it's a pandemic, why are you running around in groups waving automatic weapons and screaming about your rights as an american. 07:36
PlanckWalk"Eating detergent pods is bad for your health" => People eating detergent07:39
PlanckWalk"Don't tell me what to do!"07:40
ecrockz123Is trump looking to reduce the population in usa07:42
PlanckWalkNo, but if that's a side effect, then ehh07:43
ecrockz123Population is biggest cause for climate change too07:44
PlanckWalkIt's not likely that he'd care much07:44
Heresayhe cares or climate change he is in favour of it07:46
Heresayny id too cold07:46
Heresayny is too cold07:46
Heresayflorida weather would suit nyc better07:47
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 05:40 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: first death associated with cluster at NSW nursing home  – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB207:51
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 05:55 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany reports more than 3,600 new cases, 242 more deaths → https://is.gd/xpK8YI07:58
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 05:58 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X08:05
jacklswunder control?08:14
tinwhiskersit's a bit of a stretch for Germany to claim control yet imo; if you compare to something like Australia or NZ, for example.08:16
tinwhiskersthose countries really are flattening their curves. Germany is barely linear.08:17
jacklswstill there are deaths08:23
jacklswjust that they are the most controllable around europe region08:23
tinwhiskersThe most deadly day NZ has had was 4 people dying, followed by two days at 2 deaths.08:27
tinwhiskersGermany looked good early on though but NZ is way ahead now. NZ is now aiming at eradication of the virus.08:28
tinwhiskersNZ new cases today: 18. Germany new cases today: 75408:30
tinwhiskersNZ 0.27 per 100,000 population, Germany 4.43 per 100,00008:31
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 06:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany reports more than 3,600 new cases, 242 more deaths → https://is.gd/xpK8YI08:33
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 06:41 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: first death associated with cluster at NSW nursing home  – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB208:47
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 06:48 UTC: Coronavirus: Double warning over antibody tests: Experts say screening may not prove immunity from coronavirus, and Britons are warned over unproven tests. → https://is.gd/kxSN2x08:55
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 06:54 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: first death associated with cluster at NSW nursing home  – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB209:09
bn_mobileYou guys hear about Wuhan revising their death toll by +50%?09:15
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 07:30 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X09:37
tinwhiskersbn_mobile: yep09:40
tinwhiskersit's showing in the stats09:40
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 07:37 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore 'preliminarily' confirms another 942 cases: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI09:44
bn_mobiletinwhiskers: is it a revision in the reporting methodology or previously undisclosed data?09:48
tinwhiskersbn_mobile: it's just a stepwise correction starting from today/yesterday09:49
tinwhiskersoh09:49
tinwhiskersundisclosed data I think09:49
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 07:43 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X09:51
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 08:00 UTC: Food & drink industry: Meat and vegetable vending machines do roaring trade in coronavirus crisis → https://is.gd/CNeQ3j10:05
aradeshthe offloop site has been slow lately...10:18
steeltormentor[mHi guys, anyone here keeping track of which countries are/were using the Herd Immunity method to deal with the covid19 situation?10:18
aradeshanother >3k deaths for USA yesterday10:18
aradeshsteeltormentor[m: i'm not sure. i think it's kind of hard because even though countries haven't really enforced stuff, you get people choosing to lockdown anyway, or companies deciding to have their staff work from home, etc10:19
aradeshlike sweden10:19
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 08:15 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore 'preliminarily' confirms another 942 cases: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI10:19
aradeshthe impression i get from sweden is that there is no official lockdown, but a lot of people and companies are acting as if there is10:20
aradeshthen there was the UK who started off with herd immunity as their plan, and then immediately bailed10:20
aradeshafter basically wasting a week10:21
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 08:26 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Questa Sera alle 1:45 del mattino ci sarà il concerto organizzato dal OMS 'One World Together At Home' → https://is.gd/w5sFth10:26
tinwhiskersaradesh: yeah, I'm aware of the slowness on offloop and how to resolve it but I've just been very unmotivated today.10:30
aradeshtinwhiskers: do you run it?10:33
aradeshi did not know10:33
generaaradesh, some newspapers write, the news of Swedens No Lockdown was fake news10:33
tinwhiskersaradesh: yeah10:34
tinwhiskersI'll probably fix it tomorrow. I'm going to add another graph on test numbers as well.10:35
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 08:38 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Anticorpi → https://is.gd/OEdIFl10:41
yuri[m]No lockdown in Sweden is real and it's interesting to note that a) Sweden is at the same level or *below* countries like UK when it comes to infections and deaths per million and b) Sweden is far above neighbouring countries (Denmark/Finland/Norway) when it comes to deaths and infections. 10:43
yuri[m]genera: Which newspaper would be saying that Sweden has any kind of lockdown? 10:44
generasaw that yesterday10:44
generahttps://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Hat-Schweden-am-Ende-recht-gehabt-article21716911.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab10:45
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 08:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia cases jump by 4,785; Singapore 'preliminarily' confirms another 942 cases → https://is.gd/xpK8YI10:48
JohnPeter!corona Antarctica10:51
CoronaBot,01[ERR] Country/state not found!10:52
steeltormentor[myuri: yep it has been discussed here before about the dangers of such method. Now I'm curious which countries are still using it.11:04
steeltormentor[mInterested to run a statistical test if I could get the name of the countries.11:04
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 08:59 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X11:09
mefistofelessteeltormentor[m: which method exactly?11:27
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 09:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia cases jump by 4,785; Singapore 'preliminarily' confirms another 942 cases → https://is.gd/xpK8YI11:30
steeltormentor[mmefistofeles: Herd Immunity / does not enforce a lockdown. Like Sweden and UK initial plan.11:32
mefistofelessteeltormentor[m: the herd immunity was something pushed by the media, I don't think UK was going for that in any case11:33
mefistofelessteeltormentor[m: and "lockdown" means different things for different countries, so we need to be very specific11:33
mefistofelessteeltormentor[m: what's Sweden doing?11:33
mefistofelesah ok, I see the restaurants and bars still open, there, apparently11:35
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 09:34 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia reports spike in cases; Taiwan to quarantine 700 navy sailors: Russia reported another 4,785 cases and 40 deaths, Reuters reported. That brings the country's total to 36,793 cases and 313 deaths, according to the report. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI11:37
ynhof[m]%data new zealand11:39
Brainstormynhof[m]: In all areas, New Zealand, there are 1422 cases (0.0% of the population) and 11 deaths (0.8% of cases) as of 4 minutes ago. 79078 tests were performed (1.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 1.3% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20Zealand for time series data.11:39
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 09:51 UTC: UK coronavirus live: doctors confirm lack of PPE amid fears supplies may run out this weekend: Surveys reveal medics’ concerns about pressures to work without protection. Follow this and all the day’s developments in the UK’s Covid-19 crisis → https://is.gd/qv8SCx11:59
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 10:01 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Wuhan → https://is.gd/n8uv0812:06
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 10:07 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia reports spike in cases; Taiwan to quarantine 700 navy sailors: Russia reported another 4,785 cases and 40 deaths, Reuters reported. That brings the country's total to 36,793 cases and 313 deaths, according to the report. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI12:13
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Six People Die From Coronavirus After Attending Same Funeral In South Carolina (10007 votes) | https://redd.it/g39aj112:14
Biep[m]!cases world12:15
CovBotIn World there have been a total of 2,263,507 cases as of 2020-04-18 10:01:00 UTC. Of these 1,529,896 (67.6%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 578,832 (25.6%) have definitely recovered and 154,779 (6.8%) have died.12:15
Biep[m]!compare world;Sweden;US12:17
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 10:21 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X12:27
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 10:24 UTC: CoronavirusUK: British public: “We love the NHS!” *elects Conservatives for the 4th consecutive time* → https://is.gd/czB8EA12:41
hat423334yeh12:44
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 10:39 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia reports spike in cases; Taiwan to quarantine 700 navy sailors: Russia reported another 4,785 cases and 40 deaths, Reuters reported. That brings the country's total to 36,793 cases and 313 deaths, according to the report. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI12:48
PlanckWalkHeh, the estimates in  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.13.20064519v1  have not proved very accurate.12:48
PlanckWalkNot surprising given the numerous flaws.12:49
mefistofelesindeed12:49
tinwhiskersInteresting: Across the United States we estimate as of 6 April 2020 the fraction of the population infected was 4.8% [3.2%, 8.0%], 39 times the portion of the population with a positive test result.12:51
tinwhiskersAlthough that estimate was based on the European data so doesn't really add anything in that regard.12:53
PlanckWalkAll the parameters in their model were estimated from pretty skimpy data12:53
PlanckWalkEspecially the post-lockdown reproduction rate, which they assume to be constant across every population.12:54
tinwhiskersMmm12:54
PlanckWalk(and within every population)12:55
PlanckWalkUsing their supplied model I determined that China now has 6 billion infections.12:55
ynhof[m]I need to say something hear that none of you will understand.12:55
ynhof[m]Dear firstfloor (2), please stop.12:55
tinwhiskersPlanckWalk: lol12:56
mefistofelesPlanckWalk: sounds about right12:57
PlanckWalkThey estimated that lockdown can't possibly reduce reporoduction rate below 112:58
adventurerwho did  PlanckWalk 12:59
PlanckWalkThe authors of the study I linked above12:59
tinwhiskersI see. That should have rung some alarm bells considering it has dropped R(eff) below 1 in some places.12:59
PlanckWalkYes, you'd think that they would have done some sanity checking13:00
tinwhiskersMidnight... Bed. Gn13:01
PlanckWalkBut then, it looks like they estimated it by fitting an Reff to 2 days of Italian data.13:01
ynhof[m]Where? Night night13:01
PlanckWalk(and nothing else)13:01
ynhof[m]Whiskers you forgot to set your clock back13:02
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 10:52 UTC: UK coronavirus live: doctors confirm lack of PPE amid fears supplies may run out this weekend: Surveys reveal medics’ concerns about pressures to work without protection. Follow this and all the day’s developments in the UK’s Covid-19 crisis → https://is.gd/qv8SCx13:02
PlanckWalkI like making predictive models as much as anyone, but I recognise that we don't have halfway reliable data on Reff for most places.13:04
PlanckWalkAnd they're not going to be even similar across populations.13:05
PlanckWalkThat's going to give ridiculously wide bounds when projecting 3 weeks into the future.13:07
PlanckWalke.g. estimating current infections from recent deaths13:08
jacklswnight? should be australia13:14
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 11:04 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/sYQG2q13:16
piston!corona Asia13:18
CoronaBotAsia: Global rank: #-, cases: 362,587 (+4,403), fatalities: 14,197 (+131), active cases: 175,443, total recovered: 172,947, in a serious condition: 6,352. Mortality: 3.92%, case fatality rate: 7.59%, cases/1M: -, deaths/1M: -. 13:18
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 11:23 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA - Florida → https://is.gd/64IK7K13:23
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 11:27 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia reports spike in cases; Taiwan to quarantine 700 navy sailors: Russia reported another 4,785 cases and 40 deaths, Reuters reported. That brings the country's total to 36,793 cases and 313 deaths, according to the report. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI13:30
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 11:41 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X13:45
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 12:01 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia reports spike in cases; Taiwan to quarantine 700 navy sailors: Russia reported another 4,785 cases and 40 deaths, Reuters reported. That brings the country's total to 36,793 cases and 313 deaths, according to the report. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI14:06
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 12:10 UTC: UK coronavirus live: NHS frontline staff may walk out over lack of PPE, says union: Surveys reveal medics’ concerns about pressures to work without protection. Follow this and all the day’s developments in the UK’s Covid-19 crisis → https://is.gd/qv8SCx14:20
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 12:31 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna → https://is.gd/8UUY6Q14:34
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 12:38 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Scienza - USA → https://is.gd/ZuV5oa14:41
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 12:42 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/Go2Mja14:48
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 12:56 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers → https://is.gd/Y0fUeJ15:02
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 13:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Nations debate easing lockdown, Swiss death toll tops 1,100 → https://is.gd/acat8515:09
_abc_Hunan u. study shows corona can infect these animals too: "Those on danger list include cats, cows, goats, pigs, sheep, buffalo and pigeons"15:15
_abc_I do not like PIGEONS. They are city rats with wings, flying in your face on the street hoping for a morsel.15:15
_abc_They are everywhere and literally poop on everyone and everything. We have normal rats, and 2 kinds of rats with wings in this city, piegons and seagulls. The pigeons far outnumber the gulls.15:16
AimHereEven in towns with lots of pigeons, I suspect pigeon->human contact is rather rare15:21
AimHereI'm sure you'll just have to use whatever excuses you previously had if you want to start a cull15:21
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 13:22 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Olimpiadi → https://is.gd/ZBCqUb15:23
xrogaanPigeons don't touch you directly, they usually get you by landing guano on your head.15:24
bn_mobileWhat the heck, now NYC is not even confirming cause of death?? http://www.wcsjnews.com/news/national/coronavirus-updates-china-increases-wuhan-death-toll-by-50/article_87029390-6a91-5943-b581-7243e8fe633f.html15:25
mefistofelesalso, do we know if these animals actually show any symptoms at all?15:25
mefistofelesor if they are even dying from it?15:25
AimHereIIRC, tigers and cats do get ill from it15:25
mefistofelesbn_mobile: 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons15:26
mefistofelessounds like a bad news agency15:26
bn_mobilemefistofeles: weird, works over here?15:26
mefistofelesbn_mobile: yes, doesn't work for Europeands /GDPR countries15:26
mefistofeles*Europeans15:27
mefistofelesAimHere: ok15:27
farnEuropeanos15:27
bn_mobilemefistofeles: probably licensing restrictions perhaps?15:27
mefistofelesbn_mobile: not licensing, but the way they handle your data15:27
mefistofelescookies, browser data, etc.15:28
bn_mobilemefistofeles: is there now a specific HTTP error code & software check for GDPR?15:28
mefistofelesthe way they do it is against european data protection laws, apparently15:28
mefistofelesbn_mobile: well, I don't know if 451 HTTP code is standard for this, tbh15:29
_abc_AimHere: re: pigeon human contact: they fly within 30cm of your face here and land in front of you, and poop everywhere, people step in the poop and lift the dried dust as aerosols.15:29
_abc_AimHere: bird pooped on me in the beginning of February, was nasty in despite of wearing rain gear. This is how you get zoonosis. Does not have to be covid.15:30
_abc_AimHere: because cretin people feed them they come in droves and expect everyone to feed them, getting very close.15:30
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 13:27 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Stocks rally on hopes for a breakthrough, nations debate easing lockdown → https://is.gd/acat8515:31
_abc_Surely a nature and animal lover would understand that a city is human territory, NOT animal territory.15:31
Hoffmanlol this guy got pooped on15:31
Hoffmanlol15:31
bn_mobilemefistofeles: right, so it's just speculation then (not that I'm defending them).  I mean a lot of streaming services disallow viewers from other countries due to licensing restrictions. 15:31
Hoffmanits animal territory temporarily occupied by humans15:31
_abc_It brings luck. To yourself or to your heirs.15:31
_abc_Hoffman: I refuse that explanation, that is an extremist explanation.15:31
mefistofelesbn_mobile: oh, no, they specifically say it's because of violations of  GDPR15:32
mefistofelesbn_mobile: "15:32
mefistofelesWe recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. "15:32
bn_mobileI'm a bit bitter at GDPR because it's made our work JIRA a pita to use now (& we have no presence in the EU)15:33
_abc_mefistofeles: translated: they use and sell visitor data to the highest bidder. You can't do that to GDPR protected people15:33
_abc_JIRA?15:33
_abc_Yes GDPR does add some work for webmasters.15:33
_abc_Also there is no easy way to enforce GDPR without javascript only sites.15:33
bn_mobilemefistofeles: ah, ok then it's GDPR then, I'm sorry15:34
mefistofeles_abc_: yes, basically15:35
Hoffman_abc_: I reject your characterization of the viewpoint as extremist15:35
Hoffmancharacterization: denied15:35
Hoffmanmy explanation is statistically the most correct, as the land has had 0 humans on it for most of its existence15:36
Hoffmanthus making it not human territory15:36
bn_mobile_abc_: yes, Atlassian JIRA.  I now have to refer to colleagues by some GUID # VS a sane name, lol, ridiculous15:36
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 13:29 UTC: Coronavirus US live: widespread concern amid growing protests against stay home orders: Thousands backed by rightwing donors gear up for protests Operation reopen America: are we about to witness a second historic failure of leadership from Trump? Live global updates → https://is.gd/C1mIp915:38
_abc_Hoffman: you can reject whatever you want, once you're an extremist you are one for life. That's how "permanent information storage" works.15:38
_abc_Statistics have nothing to do with it. Statistically, there would have been 0 to 10 pigeons per square area unit in this location. Now there are 1000 to 10000. Guess what the food source is?15:39
_abc_I have no problem returning the density of birds to normal. Tomorrow morning, if necessary due to virus spreading.15:40
_abc_The powers that be should do themselves a favor and test some city pigeons, especially where covid cases are abundant and no direct transmission ways are in view. Italy probably.15:40
_abc_Then it gets complex because the pigeon version of covid is likely a bit different and may not trigger the tests they use now.15:41
_abc_And I am really worried about chickens getting into this circle f*15:41
_abc_They said the tiger in that zoo got covid from an asymptomatic carer but it is far more likely he got it from a pigeon he caught and ate imo.15:42
Hoffmanyou sure do have a lot of opinions15:42
_abc_I have a few, yes.15:43
bn_mobilemefistofeles: here we go, alternate source:  https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/08/829506542/after-deaths-at-home-in-nyc-officials-plan-to-count-many-as-covid-1915:43
Hoffmanare you sure this isn't just some "Moby Dick" situation where you're trying to starve city pidgeons to get revenge on the one that pooped on you15:44
Hoffmanrelentlessly hunting your white pidgeon15:44
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 13:43 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito → https://is.gd/ytK1rB15:45
bn_mobileHoffman: lol15:45
_abc_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMI7922eigo15:46
_abc_Hoffman: piss off15:46
mefistofeles%t15:46
Brainstormmefistofeles: From www.youtube.com: Pigeons and Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Pigeon Health Episode #8 - YouTube15:46
Hoffmanholy crap theres like an entire pidgeon vlogger subculture15:48
bn_mobilesigh... An American fb acquaintance forwarded me a video advocating civil disobedience, lol15:48
nileshthe uk is a mess, as someone on the front line - the general public are not understanding self isolation because it is not being enforced15:48
_abc_The vlog that guy made predates the Hunan U. study. So he is wrong about covid 19 not infecting pigeons probably.15:49
nileshnow the hospitals are running out of ppe15:49
_abc_Seriously, how daft can people be not to start MANUFACTURING masks and ppe locally?15:50
Hoffmangotta have the right materials15:50
_abc_Is it that expensive? No. Maybe they need to import slave labor?15:50
Hoffmann95 masks are just cut & molded n95 fiber sheets15:50
_abc_Yes one imports the materials and the machine and they machines make 100 masks / minute each.15:50
bn_mobileI don't even know how to respond to her, so many things wrong with that video15:51
Hoffmanthe materials are as in demand as the masks unfortunately15:51
_abc_Yes but at government level the BA flights which brought 3-4 million masks this morning to UK could have brought the machines and the materials for 30-40 million masks instead15:51
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 13:45 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Veneto → https://is.gd/36bRu615:52
HoffmanI hope they are in the process of making more machines to make more fiber15:52
bn_mobileThere are also washing/sanitization processes, but some hospitals are more wasteful in their usage VS others15:52
Hoffmanhopefully they finish scaling up manufacturing before it's no longer necessary15:52
bn_mobiles/processes/processes for PPE/15:52
Hoffmanyes, one of the 3 machines in the country that sanitizes disposable n95 respirators is here15:53
bn_mobileHere?15:54
HoffmanBoston15:54
_abc_Hoffman: there's a yt video in the factory which makes the magic filter layer for N95 masks and they said one ton of the filter fabric makes 700,000 masks15:57
Hoffmancool15:58
_abc_It's not very complex to make and not slow either apparently.15:58
Hoffmanprobably not15:58
Hoffmanjust need to build the right equipment15:58
Hoffmanwhich actually does it15:58
_abc_Yes it is. I know about these things more than a little.15:58
Hoffmanlol15:58
Hoffman"its not very complex"15:58
Hoffman"probably not"15:58
Hoffman"yes it is"15:58
_abc_It's not complex in the context of engineered fibers / materials made now15:59
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 13:58 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Conte convoca capi delegazione poi cabina di regia. Allo studio bonus per famiglie con figli - Politica - ANSA → https://is.gd/kuro6J15:59
_abc_https://groups.oist.jp/nnp/diy-face-mask Hoffman any cotton candy machines you could borrow in Boston?16:00
Hoffmanmake up your mind16:00
Hoffmannice16:01
HoffmanI would agree with you that it is not that complex, given that you have the requirement equipment built and tooled16:01
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 14:00 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US accused of 'dereliction of duty' as deaths in Spain top 20,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X16:06
bn_mobileOkinawa sounds like a nice place to be now during the spring 😌🏝🌌16:07
bn_mobileSo China reopens while rest of world is still reacting & panicking, hmm 🤔16:08
_abc_Hoffman: or buy it. Again, this is about money. Masks have gone from $1-2 a piece to $39 each and there is STILL no-one in the "West" picking up the opportunity to start a factory, even though this virus crazy has it's end nowhere in sight. A minimum of one to two years are periods quoted.16:09
mefistofelesbn_mobile: not the rest of the world16:09
_abc_Hoffman: I'm in Eastern Europe and here there are factories repurposed for mask and PPE making.16:10
_abc_Hoffman: we are still a manufacturing country with little or no external labor imported.16:10
_abc_I suppose Boston where once upon a time lots of factories smoked up the sky is now "too advanced" to be able to set up a fiber cloth and a mask assembly factory.16:11
_abc_Or two or five.16:11
bn_mobile_abc_: start one, become the savior of the Britons!16:11
_abc_I think even 3M who said they doubled their mask production are manufacturing in China and flying the product "home". Crazy!16:11
_abc_bn_mobile: I'm in Eastern Europe, not UK16:11
bn_mobileOh, my bad16:11
_abc_Also one flight of vegetable pickers flew from here to UK today/yersterday.16:12
_abc_They are unable to find people to pick their vegs off the fields, are crying that famine is coming. Even a famished brit would not bend down to pick veggies out the of ground. This is all ALL about money.16:12
Hoffmanalmost as if being a brutal authoritarian regime lets you get stuff done faster, hmm16:13
Hoffmanthey dont got nobody on beaches today16:13
Hoffmandisregarding stay at home orders because they gotta get that gram16:13
_abc_gram?16:13
bn_mobilemefistofeles:  you don't think the rest of the world is still reacting? PS: I'm not passing judgment , I was just saying it seemed suspicious China was re-opening first 🙂16:14
Hoffman_abc_: I am glad that we are already doing the idea you raised16:14
Hoffmanwhich is, looking into scaling up mask production16:14
HoffmanI agree it is important16:14
bn_mobileDoes the UK import all its food now?16:15
mefistofelesbn_mobile: well China was the one getting hit first and one of the first stopping the spread, why wouldn't it be re-opening first? (though, it's not really the first, imho)16:16
_abc_Hoffman: you are scaling up *China's* mask production, not your own afaik.16:19
_abc_The 3M factores are in China.16:19
_abc_bn_mobile: no it does not import all of it but it has pretty much zero local agricultural work force afaik. Brits refuse to work with their hands in the dirt. Eastern Europeans go there twice per annum or more frequenlty and pick the harvest etc.16:20
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 14:14 UTC: Coronavirus US live: widespread concern amid growing protests against stay home orders: Thousands backed by rightwing donors gear up for protests Operation reopen America: are we about to witness a second historic failure of leadership from Trump? Live global updates → https://is.gd/C1mIp916:20
_abc_*35.6 axilar16:25
bn_mobilemefistofeles:  who is first, "USA#1"? 😂16:27
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Stocks rally on hopes for a breakthrough, nations debate easing lockdown → https://is.gd/acat8516:27
Hoffman_abc_: then that thing16:27
bn_mobile_abc_:  unfortunately lots of "1st world" countries are becoming like that… especially ones that don't have much land to begin with16:27
_abc_Yes looks like USA is again #1 in something they really don't want to be #116:27
_abc_Winning a contest which you want to win by not winning.16:28
mefistofelesbn_mobile: haha, most likely last :P16:31
mefistofelesbn_mobile: first can be Korea (I think it never closed?) or Denmark or Austria16:31
mefistofelesor Iceland16:31
bn_mobilehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6DGNZnfKYnU16:34
MinceRAmerica First!16:34
bn_mobileMake ARMerica grate again!16:35
mefistofeles%t16:36
Brainstormmefistofeles: From m.youtube.com: WarGames - "The Only Winning Move" - YouTube16:36
Hoffman13,12𝓖𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓽 𝓙𝓸𝓫!16:36
bn_mobileOh no, Mario box "?" marks we meet again 😂16:37
Hoffmanbn_mobile: uni-d to unicode up ur box16:39
bn_mobile What did that say?🤔  Old iPhone here 😔16:40
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:39 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Gucci plans to reopen one of its Italian sites, Britain mulls new financial aid → https://is.gd/acat8516:41
Hoffmanbn_mobile: it said, Great Job!16:44
Hoffmanin cursive16:44
Hoffmanin pink on blue16:44
MinceRjust hit the "?" boxes to see if mushrooms come out :>16:44
Hoffmana la T&EAS:GJ16:44
MinceRwith your head16:44
bn_mobileLol, because people really need to buy luxury goods now?16:45
bn_mobileMinceR: technically I think it's his fist, but yeah :)16:46
LjLlet's keep colors and stuff like that to a minimium please... i keep it enabled for a bit of bold and italics when it benefits the bots but it's a short leap to rainbows, that many on IRC will object to...16:46
bn_mobileHey LjL16:46
LjLhey16:46
bn_mobileHow goes it over there?16:46
MinceR:)16:48
bn_mobiles/encoded/are encoded/16:48
MinceRctrl+C followed by a number, optionally a comma + another number16:49
bn_mobileIs it just ANSI escape sequences?16:49
MinceRwell, this is something they usually blame mIRC for16:49
MinceRyou can send ANSI escape sequences, but i'm not sure what clients will show them correctly16:49
MinceRctrl+C is ASCII code 316:50
mefistofelesI know this is risky, and hope it doesn't feed the trolls, but I'm gonna leave this here https://project-evidence.github.io/ 16:50
mefistofelesthere are indeed some coincidences that may deserve further study16:50
zROBindeed16:53
LjLmefistofeles, haven't downloaded, but the web page itself sounds like reasonable premises17:01
LjLif you consider a leak from a lab believable... which i still do17:01
mefistofelesLjL: yes17:02
mefistofelesit's possible17:02
mefistofelesI mean, I think it is17:02
izit's a bit like science warning a big earthquake is bound to happen soon and then when a quake happens thinking it's believable a weather control machine did it17:07
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 15:01 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US accused of 'dereliction of duty' as deaths in Spain top 20,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X17:10
linexta guy tried to sneak into a supermarket without a face mask by pulling his t-shirt over his nose17:10
linextthe bouncer at the door told him to leave17:10
Spectinwhiskers: how much does that piss you off ^^17:11
Spec'US accused of <...> as deaths in spain...17:11
izshould have pulled his tshirt over the back of his head and explained to the bouncer that he needed tp for his bunghole17:11
linexthe probably needs tp given the shortage17:12
linextthere wasn't any in the store17:12
linexthere's what NJ USA looks like: https://www.state.nj.us/health/cd/topics/covid2019_dashboard.shtml17:13
Specooo, we'll hit a million in just over a week17:14
MinceR:)17:15
Hoffmanits ok17:16
Hoffmanwe're reopening the economy again17:16
Hoffmanstarting today17:16
Hoffmananyone who dies is a hero but dont expect any sort of compensation17:16
Hoffmanthat would be selfish and materialistic.17:16
linextHoffman, https://jobs.covid19.nj.gov/17:16
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Michigan Gov: ‘Better To Be Six Feet Apart Right Now Than Six Feet Under’ (10018 votes) | https://redd.it/g3ii8217:16
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 15:14 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Scienza → https://is.gd/NIcxhb17:17
linextnew jobs for $11/hour and up.  however, if you get sick and need to go to the hospital, it's several thousand $17:17
Specnice17:19
Hoffmanlinext: sad17:19
Specexploiting the desperate is a time honored tradition17:19
Specdo these jerbs come with healthcares?17:20
blackntanlinext: yeah, i think that governments should just pay people not to work at all17:20
linextblackntan, i think they should give them health care for corona-related illness if they get it17:20
blackntanlinext: nah, just pay them ... no work required17:21
linext$11/hour for a month or so is only about $100017:21
linexti saw an article about a guy who was in the ICU for 2 weeks17:21
linextthe hospital bill was $100,00017:21
blackntanlinext: you think he'll pay that?17:22
linexteventually17:22
blackntanno17:22
blackntanit'll get written off17:22
bigfluffcan't get blood from a turnip, if he doesn't have money and doesn't have insurance...it'll get written off17:22
blackntanthat's why the US healthcare system is so expensive17:22
linextcharity-care tries to recover funds if you get money17:22
blackntansomeone has to pay17:22
blackntanbut not everyone17:22
linextit will likely go to collections agencies17:23
blackntanand get written off17:23
blackntanand won't effect your credit17:23
blackntanbecause it's medicalk17:23
linextif the guy is poor for the rest of his life, he won't pay17:23
blackntanhe won't pay either way17:23
blackntanit's up to him/her17:23
bigfluffblackntan: i think medical bills have "less" effect on credit, but it's still something17:23
linextanyone can choose to not pay their bills17:23
blackntanbigfluff: nothing17:23
blackntanlinext: that is true17:24
bigfluffblackntan: tmyn17:24
blackntanbut medical doesn't kill your credit17:24
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 15:15 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, Gucci to reopen one of its Italian sites → https://is.gd/acat8517:24
blackntanso, once again, thank god you're us citizens with amazing healthcare17:24
blackntanthat you don't have to pay if you don't want to17:24
blackntansure elective surgeries are a pita17:25
blackntanand cancer (which i have)17:25
blackntanis a pain in the ass17:25
linextmy health insurance is not linked to any workplace17:25
blackntanbut the medical facilities are fucking amazing17:25
linexti pay as an individual17:25
linextmy deductible is around $6,000 and a $500/month premium17:26
linextgetting a temp job just isn't worth the risk financially, even with insurance17:26
blackntanso as long as you're healthy or wealthy, you've got it covered17:26
bigfluffi administer our group health plan at the office, and we're nutting out something like $10k a month for 20 heads...crazy stuff17:26
blackntanif not, then you can't pay17:26
blackntanbut you still get the services17:26
blackntanbigfluff: yeah, the industry is nuts17:27
blackntanhealthcare prices are SOOOO high 17:27
blackntanbut it's the way it plays out due to insurance/lawsuits/etc17:27
linextsome how landscapers and housekeepers got added to essential workforce17:27
bigfluffi hear the guys cough and i yell at them "we just wrote a check so you can get that looked at!", yet nobody seems to take advantage of it17:27
blackntani live in ireland now ... i was AMAZED i could go the gp and just pay him/her €5017:27
blackntanor get prescriptions for 10s of euros instead of 100s17:28
blackntanbut try to get into a hospital here17:28
blackntanyou can't17:28
blackntanpublic healthcare at it's best17:28
blackntanon a NORMAL day there are NO BEDS17:28
linextblackntan, does ireland have the same health system that's for britain?17:28
blackntannow with corona facilities are freakin' out17:28
blackntanlinext: similar17:29
blackntani went to the A&E (emergency room) last year17:29
blackntanpeople on gurnies everywhere ... just a normal friday ...17:29
blackntanfuckin' nuts17:29
blackntanno rooms17:29
bigfluffi've seen that in some spots in the us, too17:30
blackntangotta run ... wife started a fire pit ... :-)  time for a glass of wine (it's 1630 here ... that's late enough ;-)17:31
blackntancheers all17:31
bigfluffsome hospitals it's the norm for them to have beds in the halls, etc.17:31
blackntan🍷17:31
bigflufftake care bud17:31
LjLprobably nothing new here, we already saw a few studies showing possible direct damage to other organs including the heart... but the general picture and the numbers of it... is scary https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-death-lungs-kidneys-heart-1.553680917:47
LjLso much unlike what media usually tell us here that it's "just" about pneumonia17:48
MacGeekhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrWBKkUJMXE17:49
Hoffmanlol17:49
Hoffmanthe media here in the US is telling us that its way more than just pneumonia or flu17:49
Hoffmanlike fox has been sayin17:49
Hoffmanbut then neocons rail on em for saying so17:49
Hoffmansupposedly this is no big deal and the media is just making it one17:50
AimHereA lot of business owners and the people who say what business owners tell them to say are saying that, because the lockdown is kindof bad for business17:52
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 15:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, how to get refunds on travel and other deals → https://is.gd/acat8517:52
AimHereIn the US, the death rate is nearly one 9/11 every day17:52
HoffmanbUt mOrE pEoPlE wIlL bE sAd AnD kIlL tHeMsElVeS iF tHeY cAnT wOrK17:53
AimHereI suspect they're not going to offset those against the fewer vehicular accidents and workplace ailments and industrial accidents!17:54
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 15:54 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Oggi come indicato ieri non ci sarà la conferenza stampa della Protezione Civile. → https://is.gd/oAq6WK17:59
genevinoAimHere: america first!18:10
Hoffmanlol18:10
Hoffmanmurca18:10
Hoffman"Aim Here: America First!" --Donald Trump, speaking to Coronavirus18:11
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 16:09 UTC: (news): New York coronavirus hospitalizations continue to decline as Cuomo calls for federal testing help → https://is.gd/9HadIx18:13
bn_mobilemefistofeles: thanks for that link 🙂, just finished reading all of it, was a very fascinating read for sure (almost like a mystery!) 18:19
bn_mobileI found this quote interesting:18:20
bn_mobile> "Why has Huang Yanling not done the same? Surely she is aware of the rumors surrounding her on social media. Even if she was not aware, would it really be impossible for the Chinese government to get in touch with her and have her issue an in-person statement to the media?  It would only be impossible if she was dead. "18:21
Hoffmanbn_mobile: that is kind of adorable, thinking chinese media works the same way US media does18:25
Hoffmanor even has the same goals18:25
Hoffmanlike convincing other countries they're telling the truth18:25
Hoffmantheir goal isnt to do that, it's to convince their own people they're telling the truth18:26
Hoffmanand they do that pretty easily18:26
danielp3344Hoffman: I think today the gap is not as wide as you might imagine18:26
HoffmanI think that would depend on how much I imagine, which is unknowable18:26
Hoffman;p18:26
danielp3344fair enough18:26
danielp3344But here in the US of A I wouldn't exactly say our media has any integrity18:27
Hoffmanwhat I can say is that chinese state media will only say exactly what the government wants it to say18:27
danielp3344or tries18:27
Hoffmanthat doesnt matter here18:27
Hoffmannothing more and nothing less18:27
Hoffmanthan what the government wants it to say18:27
danielp3344Hoffman: here we just have to say "The government said it!" and everyone listens18:28
Hoffmanugh18:28
danielp3344And anyone else must be wrong18:28
Hoffmancan we please have a discussion about one thing without whataboutism18:28
HoffmanIm discussing chinese state owned media specifically18:28
danielp3344alright fine18:28
danielp3344Hoffman: yes it's different, but not that different18:29
danielp3344and the ends are pretty similar18:29
Hoffmanthere are still incidents where chinese journalists are persecuted, killed, or disappeared for reporting on things the government didnt want them to18:29
danielp3344I can believe that18:30
bn_mobileHoffman: I think you're mistaking the terms, the quote was "social media" not "media" , there's a slight difference18:34
Hoffmanbn_mobile: Im referring to this part: "issue an in-person statement to the media"18:34
Hoffmanthe media isn't interested in that because the government isn't interested in that18:35
bn_mobileAlso, coincidentally it's in the best interest of the CCP to rule out a lab-leak theory18:35
Hoffmanthe government isnt interested in that because clarifying their fate isn't the goal18:35
Hoffmanthe goal is suppressing dissent18:35
Hoffmanand someone disappearing serves to both scare the populace into compliance, while offering plausible deniability for the government, while also denying explicit martyr status18:36
bn_mobileGetting a statement from supposed P0 would be the easiest way to quell dissent18:37
bn_mobileHeck, if the media is as controlled as you say they could even manufacture it, but they haven't18:38
Hoffmanit wouldn't be the easiest way to quell dissent18:39
Hoffmanignoring it is18:39
Hoffmanuncertainty is a far better controller than certainty18:39
python476hoi18:41
python476how is y'qll doing18:41
bn_mobileYou don't think Chinese citizens are mad that they're literally locked in their homes & dying?  As a controlling govt would you rather have your populace believe a virus leaked out from a BSL-4 lab employee (employee lack of proper lab procedures) or that it was a freak natural circumstance?  I think they would prefer the latter for obvious reasons18:42
Hoffmanjust doing some reading and baking at home18:42
python476Hi Dustin18:42
Hoffmanbn_mobile: no, I can guarantee you that chinese citizens are not like american citizens18:42
Hoffmanthey dont hold the same values, and not in the same order either, because it's a totally different culture18:42
Hoffmansubservience and loyalty to the state, rather than individual freedoms, have been stressed for decades18:43
python476What about proximity between Chinese and Japanese ?18:43
Hoffmanpeople who were not, were purged by Mao by the millions18:43
python476Hoffman: it's odd how the meaning of social differs18:43
python476in the west mannered individualism is a goal18:43
python476in the east a society dillutes the individual a bit18:44
python476(not judging any of them)18:44
Hoffmanbn_mobile: keep in mind, too, that it is a surveillance state18:44
bn_mobileHoffman: I didn't say they don't have different cultural values, but you're ignoring logic though18:44
Hoffmanand anyone leaving to join a protest would either be stopped, or logged and then persecuted18:44
Hoffmanbn_mobile: telling someone they're "ignoring logic" just because you disagree with them is a good way to end a good discussion18:44
bn_mobileYou obviously haven't seen posts by angry Chinese citizens blaming the govt for the deaths of family members18:46
Atque%cases maryland18:48
BrainstormAtque: In Maryland, US, there are 12308 cases (0.2% of the population) and 463 deaths (3.8% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 65370 tests were performed (18.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Maryland for time series data.18:48
Atque%cases tasmania18:48
BrainstormAtque: In Tasmania, Australia, there are 184 cases (0.0% of the population) and 8 deaths (4.3% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 4164 tests were performed (4.4% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.4% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 10.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Tasmania for time series data.18:48
Atque%cases nsw18:48
BrainstormAtque: In New Brunswick, Canada, there are 117 cases (0.0% of the population) and 0 deaths (0.0% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 7963 tests were performed (1.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20Brunswick for time series data.18:49
bn_mobileHoffmam:  Lol, if that's how you choose to see it, you're the one that chose to not have an open mind18:49
bn_mobileYes, definitely a lot of surveillance, I don't deny that18:50
Hoffmanbn_mobile: not interested in discussing something with someone who has insulted me18:51
HoffmanPASS18:51
bn_mobileBut think about what I said earlier about the two possibilities in front of the CCP, ie:  put yourself in their shoes18:51
bn_mobileie:  assume you're an authoritarian-esque govt faced with that question18:52
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 16:51 UTC: Aggiornamento 18/04: submitted by /u/maikk_ to r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA → https://is.gd/WI5e2N18:56
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 17:03 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus, folla per il funerale del sindaco di Saviano - la Repubblica → https://is.gd/CvrXGB19:04
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 17:08 UTC: (news): New York coronavirus deaths top 13,000 but hospitalization continues to drop, Cuomo says → https://is.gd/9HadIx19:11
bn_mobileHoffman: lol, you're taking things way too personally.  If you're insulted by someone that suggests to look at things "logically", that's silly.  That's not even an insult, lol19:14
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 17:12 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Francia → https://is.gd/8vnh2b19:18
Hoffmanbn_mobile: that is different from what you said, and the difference is precisely why you're paraphrasing yourself now, instead of quoting yourself19:18
Hoffmanhas the whole world forgotten how to acknowledge wrongdoing?19:19
Hoffmanyou start with "I messed up in this way"19:19
Hoffmanand you finish with "I am sorry"19:19
HoffmanI guess the president has been a role model for a lot of people19:20
ecov"wrongdoing" lol19:20
Hoffmanyeah, like insulting someone19:20
Hoffmanyou say, "I insulted you, and I am sorry"19:20
prometeus[m]Hello19:20
bn_mobileHoffman: if you were insulted then, my apologies, that was not my intention.  To me the lack of actions from the CCP seemed like a logical impossibility because the researcher in question may no longer even be alive. 19:21
Hoffmanheya19:21
Hoffmanstart with "I messed up in this way"19:21
Hoffmanfinish with "I am sorry"19:21
ecov"you're ignoring logic" ... that's what did it?19:21
Hoffmanthere are no conditionals involved19:21
Hoffmanyou definitely did something wrong, so there's no 'if'19:21
kPaTelling someone how to apologize IS a conditional19:21
ecovdelicate19:21
Hoffmanecov: honestly, any personal attack when the topic isnt either of the discussers19:21
HoffmankPa: no, that's instructive19:21
Hoffmanconditional means "if this then that"19:22
kPaNo you're telling someone how to feel.19:22
HoffmanIF you were insulted, Im sorry19:22
Hoffmannot19:22
Hoffman"I insulted you, and I am sorry"19:22
Hoffmanwhich is the correct way to apologize19:22
ecovHoffman are you on HRT?19:22
HoffmankPa: if hes not sorry for apologizing, then by all means he shouldnt19:22
ecovby chance19:22
Hoffmaner19:22
HoffmankPa: if hes not sorry for insulting, then by all means he shouldnt apologize19:22
HoffmanI definitely dont want him to *feel* sorry if he isnt19:23
ecovwhy would he feel sorry?19:23
Hoffmanjust telling him how to properly apologize if he already does feel sorry19:23
ecovits your right to take offense to anything you want19:23
ecovi'm offended by your current behavior19:23
HoffmankPa: and if he isnt sorry, thats fine too19:23
Hoffmanhe just should stop tryna talk me back up as if nothing happened lol19:23
kPahe told you exactly what he was sorry for, your feeling insulted19:23
Hoffmanhe said he was sorry if I felt insulted19:24
ubLIXok19:24
ubLIXok ok ok19:24
ecov"I'm sorry you're so emotionally unhinged"19:24
Hoffmannot sorry for something he definitely did19:24
Hoffmanbut like I said, thats ok19:24
kPaand if you didn't feel insulted, what is there to be sorry for?19:24
ubLIXpoints have been made; we're adults; closure is not necessary; we can just drop the whole thing19:24
Hoffmanif hes not sorry, that is fine19:24
mefistofelesjust stop this nonsense xD19:24
kPathis is a distinction without a difference19:24
Hoffmanlike I said, Im not gonna make him feel a way he doesnt19:24
Hoffmanjust informing him that im not interested in chatting with him19:24
mefistofelesHoffman: kPa , you can take it to a private conversation19:24
Hoffmanmefistofeles: take what19:25
Hoffmanlike I said, I'm copacetic19:25
ecovThat's the either/or you were denying19:25
ecov"apologize or I'll mute you"19:25
ecovweirdo 19:25
Hoffmansettle down19:25
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 17:23 UTC: (news): New York coronavirus deaths top 13,000 but hospitalization continues to drop, Cuomo says → https://is.gd/9HadIx19:25
ubLIXmutes will follow; drop the whole thing19:26
mefistofeles19:26
Hoffman-->19:26
zROB<--19:26
zROBrightist19:27
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: One trip per week. One person per household. That should be the law for grocery buying, union says (10474 votes) | https://redd.it/g3n2ch19:29
BirossoI have arrived.19:29
Hoffmansame19:29
Birosso:(19:30
Birosso"One trip per week. One person per household" What if you don't have a car?19:30
ubLIXhave strong arms?19:30
BirossoFor an entire family?19:30
bin_bashmaybe dont have a family thne19:31
bin_bashduh19:31
BirossoGood idea.19:31
MinceRlol19:31
ubLIXtrolley?19:31
BirossoProblem solved.19:31
ubLIXidk. i'd hate not having a car right now19:31
kPaI love how well IRC solves problems.19:31
MinceRstop having self-important simpletons organize your life for you19:32
MinceRproblem solved.19:32
MinceR(IOW, abolish the state)19:32
bin_bashabolish the poor19:32
BirossoI walk 30 minutes to and from to buy groceries. I'd hate to have to haul an entire week's worth.19:32
bin_bashby eating them19:32
ubLIXlet them eat solyent!19:32
bin_basheveryones always like "eat the rich eat the rich" YAWN more like enslave the poor. #thepoorowemelabor19:32
kPaI misread that and thought you said "let them eat solvent" for a minute19:33
bin_bashLOL19:33
bin_bashfeed them rubbing alcohol!19:33
zROBProblem solved.19:33
bin_bashhahahhaa in every way tbh19:34
zROBtime for devoice?19:37
ubLIXhmm?19:38
bin_bashhm?19:39
MinceReat the rich, eat the poor. YAWN.19:40
MinceREXTERMINATE ALL HUMANS19:40
kPakilling all the humans would reduce total human suffering19:41
MinceRindeed19:41
MinceRit would also reduce pollution19:41
zROBtis the law of math19:42
MinceRand it would also reduce the spread of human coronaviruses19:42
ubLIXfound the paperclip maximiser19:43
ubLIXGet IT!19:43
MinceR:)19:46
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 17:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, number of cases in Turkey overtakes Iran → https://is.gd/acat8519:47
romareyay go Turkey!19:53
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 17:49 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Ultimo Aggiornamento per Oggi → https://is.gd/qNDAxN19:54
generawhat was the explanation again for the many deaths in New York?19:59
nixonixhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/world/canada/canada-coronavirus.html19:59
nixonix%title19:59
Brainstormnixonix: From www.nytimes.com: The Shocking Coronavirus Deaths in Canada’s Long-Term Care Homes - The New York Times19:59
Hoffmangenera: population density, plus everyone wanting to go there, plus a lack of early restrictions20:07
generaand obesity? and air pollution? or mainly late lockdown?20:08
generaand a different strain ^20:14
ubLIXlate lock down, lack of extreme contact tracing effort, late quarantines, and late testing are the major failing of every western area, pretty much20:15
ubLIXthe theme is lateness20:15
Hoffmangenera: def not obesity20:16
generaoh and low number of tests. rite.20:16
Hoffmangenerally southerners and ruralers are more obese than city dwellers20:16
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 18:11 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, number of cases in Turkey overtakes Iran → https://is.gd/acat8520:16
generaok20:16
Hoffmanso I dont think that contributed to new york's elevated rate20:16
Hoffmanbut it's dense, and one of the top cities in the world as far as where people visit from all around the world20:17
Hoffmanthose create conditions for fast spreading20:17
Hoffmanso if you dont have restrictions early, you're gonna have a bad time20:17
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Oregon governor issues order to prevent debt collectors from seizing stimulus checks (10858 votes) | https://redd.it/g3nf6t20:17
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 18:20 UTC: Cuomo says New York will grant marriage licenses remotely: 'There is now no excuse when the question comes up': New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said the state will start granting marriage licenses remotely as lockdown measures designed to stop the spread of coronavirus remain in effect. → https://is.gd/yPKoWN20:23
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 18:27 UTC: New York coronavirus deaths top 13,000 but hospitalization continues to drop, Cuomo says: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo called on the federal government to help state labs acquire chemical reagents needed to perform coronavirus tests. → https://is.gd/9HadIx20:30
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 18:36 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: 'Critical' to get protective kit to front line - NHS medical director → https://is.gd/GElvFu20:45
ecovhmm20:49
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 18:38 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US accused of 'dereliction of duty' as deaths in Spain top 20,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X20:52
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 18:57 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, number of cases in Turkey overtakes Iran → https://is.gd/acat8521:07
P-S--Y Series21:09
ubLIXit speaks!21:10
LjLubLIX, oh, and my answer to that would be, nah, i've seen much much more annoying-looking ones21:11
ubLIXmuch more annoying cyclers?21:11
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:09 UTC: New York coronavirus deaths top 13,000 but hospitalization continues to drop, Cuomo says: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo called on the federal government to help state labs acquire chemical reagents needed to perform coronavirus tests. → https://is.gd/9HadIx21:14
ubLIXLjL: i'm reading this long exploration (from yesterday) of the ways in which covid-19 might rampage around the body: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes21:15
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 19:14 UTC: /u/slakmehl: El País English Edition su Twitter: "BREAKING: In televised address, Pedro Sánchez announces that there will be a “cautious and progressive” deescalation of confinement measures in Spain from May 11, and that children will be able to leave the home under controlled conditions from April 27 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/PXznCS21:21
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, Lady Gaga's massive One World: Together At Home starts → https://is.gd/acat8521:28
wwinfo[m]so what's the update on happening?21:31
wwinfo[m]it seems various people now are getting a bit inpatient and want to remove quaranteens21:31
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:33 UTC: New York coronavirus deaths top 13,000 but hospitalization continues to drop, Cuomo says: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo called on the federal government to help state labs acquire chemical reagents needed to perform coronavirus tests. → https://is.gd/9HadIx21:35
KodiakLifting lockdown anytime soon would be a mistake21:42
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:40 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, Lady Gaga's massive One World: Together At Home starts → https://is.gd/acat8521:43
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 20:12 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: A gym chain considers bankruptcy, Lady Gaga's massive One World: Together At Home rolls → https://is.gd/acat8522:19
Flaviker!covid greece22:19
CoronaBotGreece: Global rank: #57, cases: 2,235 (+11), fatalities: 110 (+2), active cases: 1,856, total recovered: 269, in a serious condition: 67. Mortality: 4.92%, case fatality rate: 29.02%, cases/1M: 214.0, deaths/1M: 11.0. Case rate: 17/24h, death rate: 3/24h. Tests: 53,290, tests/1M: 5,113.22:19
Flaviker!covid 22:20
CoronaBotTotal cases: 2,320,723 (+71,860), deaths: 159,475 (+5,330), recovered: 594,536. Active cases: 1,566,712, 1,511,543 are in a mild condition, 55,169 are in a serious condition. Mortality: 6.87%, case fatality rate: 21.15%. Case rate: 86,496/24h, death rate: 8,672/24h. Last update: 11m ago.22:20
underscoreFlaviker: the curve may be flat now in Greece22:26
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 20:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: A US gym chain considers bankruptcy as global cases top 2.3 million → https://is.gd/acat8522:26
bjodn!covid USA22:27
CoronaBotUSA: Global rank: #1, cases: 734,525 (+24,790), fatalities: 38,768 (+1,614), active cases: 629,008, total recovered: 66,749, in a serious condition: 13,544. Mortality: 5.28%, case fatality rate: 36.74%, cases/1M: 2219.0, deaths/1M: 117.0. Case rate: 32,165/24h, death rate: 2,535/24h. Tests: 3,689,117, tests/1M: 11,145.22:27
ryoumais this meant to be a joke?  it's funny.  --- "UTC: Cuomo says New York will grant marriage licenses remotely: 'There is now no excuse when the question comes up'" 22:27
Flaviker<underscore>This is a calm before the storm22:29
Philippe[m]ubLIX: good article, thank you22:30
underscoreFlaviker: unlikely, numbers have been going down since the lockdown and it's still in place22:31
underscorenumbers of news cases, that is22:32
underscorenew22:32
ryoumathose who are getting "too restless" being locked down might want to read this to get a sense of perspective.  a STRONG dose of perspective is a good idea imo.22:33
ryoumahttps://www.economist.com/news/2020/04/03/notes-on-isolation-from-those-who-know-it-well22:34
ryoumait's first world problems22:34
ubLIXryouma: 'fwp' seems just a shade too dismissive of the psychological challenge inherent in long term isolation but i don't doubt the article is worth a look22:37
ryoumai am not dismissing it in the slightest22:38
ryoumanot my intention at any rate22:38
ryoumajust saying perspective could be useful22:38
ryoumait is worth a look :)22:38
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 20:37 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 2.3 million as pandemic forces businesses to shift plans → https://is.gd/acat8522:41
ryouma"Let us hope that when we all emerge from the cave we are changed. And that we don’t forget the people still stuck there."22:41
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 20:44 UTC: Coronavirus tests were delayed by contamination at CDC lab, report says: A delay by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in quickly making coronavirus test kits available was the result of "a glaring scientific breakdown" at the CDC's central lab, The Washington Post reported. → https://is.gd/ZYVgMQ22:55
ryoumaspace station inhabitant: "A lot of my mental adjustment to being in a confined space station involved acceptance."22:57
ryouma"We have all been told to stay at home – but we can still decide how we use our time."22:58
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus* at 20:45 UTC: Coronavirus: Florida is absolutely packed to the brim with people today as Governor Ron DeSantis re-opens the beaches despite the state recording 1,413 new #COVID19 cases - its highest one-day increase since the pandemic crisis began → https://is.gd/GlMz7D23:02
ryoumawhy were teh beaches ever open for spring break?23:07
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:04 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The Post and Courier su Twitter: "BREAKING: South Carolina will reopen public beach accesses and retail stores closed under orders to slow the spread of coronavirus next week. https://t.co/58z0VPlnyd" → https://is.gd/yPPu8e23:09
cfowlerdarwin was right23:20
LjLuh... i haven't followed the graphs much in the past few days, been a little too much23:24
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:20 UTC: Healthcare workers protest for vital protection equipment: Healthcare workers around the U.S. have staged protests demanding more personal protection equipment to help keep them safe as they tend to patients with Covid-19. → https://is.gd/6OfvA623:24
LjLbut why is Spain now even considering undoing even just portions of the lockdown!?23:24
LjLtheir case curve is now actually *spiking*. why is that23:24
LjLhttps://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Spain past three days, much steeper than before23:25
LjL%cases belgium23:27
BrainstormLjL: In all areas, Belgium, there are 37183 cases (0.3% of the population) and 5453 deaths (14.7% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 145997 tests were performed (25.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Belgium for time series data.23:27
LjL%cases lombardy23:27
BrainstormLjL: In Lombardy, Italy, there are 64135 cases (0.6% of the population) and 11851 deaths (18.5% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 196302 tests were performed (32.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardy for time series data.23:27
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 2.3 million as pandemic forces businesses to shift plans → https://is.gd/acat8523:31
LjLi think i may not be the only one with "numbers tiredness" by now23:32
LjLbut meanwhile the numbers may spike again when nobody is bothering to look at them anymore ;(23:33
LjLi mean, of course *someone* is bothered enough to look at them, and health bodies surely are23:33
LjLbut it's also a matter of public opinion whether given numbers warrant lockdowns or not23:33
LjLsince politicians still likely want to get elected again, the nightmare they are also facing notwithstanding23:34
LjLnew york times' article that i can't read without registering (which i won't) says US (somewhere in the US anyway) facing a shortage of dialysis units as they are also important for some COVID patients23:36
ubLIXwell worth the read, thank you, ryouma23:38
LjLubLIX, at some point i guess i will have to look up how to disable JS as practically everything nags me to register23:41
LjLsometimes it works to just press Esc before that part of the page has loaded :PÅ23:41
ubLIXwhat browser are you using?23:42
LjLfox of fire23:42
LjLto my chagrin23:42
LjLsince i wanted to be using Epiphany still23:42
LjLbut i am not23:42
tinwhiskersLjL: also you can often copy and paste the content before the nag screen comes up then paste into a word processor to read it23:42
LjLah23:42
ubLIXwell then, add-ons > search for uBlock Origin, search for uMatrix > install both23:44
LjLalready halfway there23:44
ubLIXuMatrix gives you the granular control of js at a click; uBlock Origin comes with more comprehensive blocking lists for ads, social media, malware, etc23:46
ubLIXthey play nicely together23:46
LjLi have ublock origin, installed the other23:47
LjLalthough i also have ad domains blocked in the router23:47
LjLbut sometimes that's not quite enough23:47
LjLin particular, i think Epiphany wouldn't play youtube ads, but somehow Firefox does without uBlock Origin23:47
LjLmeanwhile: https://thetyee.ca/News/2020/04/17/14-Day-Quarantine-Too-Short/ ← 7% of cases take longer to show up than 14 days, and 5% take longer than 17 days23:47
LjLobviously we knew cases *could* take longer than the 14 canonical days, but i guess it's "nice" to know how many23:48
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 21:46 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Spain's PM to ask for lockdown extension as deaths top 20,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X23:53
ryoumagreat, i am glad you read it and found it so --- 14:38 <ubLIX> well worth the read, thank you, ryouma23:59
ryouma14:38 *** Urchin QUIT Ping timeout: 265 seconds23:59

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