romare | I started to look forward to weekends. it's so peaceful | 00:01 |
---|---|---|
romare | there's curfew only on weekends here in Turkey | 00:01 |
ding | %cases florida | 00:01 |
Brainstorm | ding: In Florida, US, there are 24753 cases (0.1% of the population) and 726 deaths (2.9% of cases) as of 11 minutes ago. 225736 tests were performed (11.0% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Florida for time series data. | 00:01 |
romare | is there any other country that does that? | 00:02 |
ding | %cases maryland | 00:02 |
Brainstorm | ding: In Maryland, US, there are 11572 cases (0.2% of the population) and 425 deaths (3.7% of cases) as of 11 minutes ago. 62009 tests were performed (18.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Maryland for time series data. | 00:02 |
ding | %cases portugal | 00:02 |
Brainstorm | ding: In all areas, Portugal, there are 19022 cases (0.2% of the population) and 657 deaths (3.5% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 191680 tests were performed (9.9% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal for time series data. | 00:02 |
LjL | romare, not aware of any, although i hear iran is largely acting as if it's nothing big | 00:04 |
LjL | last i looked, turkey was quite exponential | 00:04 |
LjL | %cases turkey | 00:04 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Turkey, there are 78546 cases (0.1% of the population) and 1769 deaths (2.3% of cases) as of 14 minutes ago. 558413 tests were performed (14.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.8% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 17.0% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 00:04 |
romare | yea it hits the fan here | 00:05 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, uh oh. 500 internal server error | 00:05 |
tinwhiskers | oh | 00:05 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:52 UTC: Watch live: Coronavirus task force holds briefing as Trump pushes protests, spars with governors: Members of the coronavirus task force are expected to hold a press briefing Friday as tensions between President Donald Trump and governors continues to grow. → https://is.gd/JWFzMO | 00:05 |
romare | oh wtf | 00:06 |
romare | china reported 1k deaths | 00:06 |
romare | how did that happen? | 00:06 |
mefistofeles | romare: apparently, they are reporting the deaths that were not detected before, this is somewhat expected | 00:10 |
romare | oh | 00:11 |
romare | I thought it was the aftermath of one day | 00:11 |
mefistofeles | people dying in houses, or deaths in hospitals that couldn't be tested (no test kit or whatever), etc. | 00:11 |
mefistofeles | misdiagnoses | 00:11 |
bin_bash | all the people that died welded into their homes | 00:11 |
romare | so they started doing post-mortem testing? | 00:12 |
mefistofeles | I guess | 00:12 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:16 UTC: California governor names Steyer, Yellen and tech CEOs to business recovery task force: The task force's goal is to help Californian's recover as fast as possible from the economic calamity resulting from the coronavirus. It will include former Chair of the Federal Reserve Janet Yellen, Disney Executive Chairman Bob [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zMKRiI | 00:20 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:17 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: nearly 100,000 EU citizens remain stranded overseas due to pandemic → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 00:34 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 22:37 UTC: How does the tier system account for increased testing?: In my state of Illinois we ramped you our testing a bunch in the last couple days so we saw a 1% increase in the growth rate vs the last few days which is entirely applicable to the fact that more testing was done. → https://is.gd/nzwbvz | 00:41 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:41 UTC: WHO says China revised coronavirus infection data to 'leave no case undocumented': Wuhan, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak in China, added 325 confirmed coronavirus cases and 1,290 deaths to the city's Covid-19 count after "a city-wide investigation," state media reported earlier Friday. → https://is.gd/UQeUPN | 00:48 |
tinwhiskers | Brainstorm keeps telling me this but I'm yet to see these new numbers show up in the data! | 00:49 |
ubLXI | weird. it was showing on offloop earlier today but seems not to be now | 00:54 |
mefistofeles | I ask again, do you know what happened to France data the last couple of days? | 00:56 |
mefistofeles | it was pretty erratic when I checked | 00:56 |
tinwhiskers | ubLXI: oh. interesting | 00:56 |
tinwhiskers | it's not showing in the alternate (JHU) data set either: http://offloop.net/covid19/?legacy=yes | 00:57 |
ubLXI | tinwhiskers: earlier today, offloop showed a jump of 1288 cases under China but not under Hubei | 00:58 |
tinwhiskers | ok | 00:59 |
ubLXI | *of deaths, not cases | 00:59 |
tinwhiskers | oh | 00:59 |
tinwhiskers | of course | 00:59 |
tinwhiskers | mefistofeles: I don't know what happened with france. The default (covidly) dataset shows a series if stepwise increases, whereas the legacy (JHU) dataset shows a single stepwise correction, so I think we can conclude that it wasn't a case of france not reporting data, but for some reason the aggregators having problems getting the data?? | 01:02 |
ubLXI | perhaps since the first reported revision, the data have been adjusted to their respective dates per best estimates for time of death? | 01:02 |
tinwhiskers | ubLXI: maybe. I do have old data somewhere I could compare but I'm not sure I'm motivated enough to do that | 01:02 |
Brainstorm | New from The Lancet at 00:00 UTC: [Obituary] John Frederick Murray: Leading US chest physician. He was born in Mineola, NY, USA, on June 8, 1927, and died of complications from coronavirus disease 2019 in Paris, France, on March 24, 2020, aged 92 years. → https://is.gd/k84DGS | 01:02 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, what's Brainstorm saying? | 01:03 |
LjL | also it's still not posting updates ;( | 01:03 |
tinwhiskers | oh, just about WHO says China revised coronavirus infection data to 'leave no case undocumented': Wuhan, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak in China, added 325 confirmed coronavirus cases and 1,290 deaths to the city's Covid-19 count after "a city-wide investigation," state media reported earlier Friday. | 01:03 |
LjL | oh | 01:04 |
tinwhiskers | ubLXI: correction: I'm *certain* I don't have the motivation to do that | 01:04 |
LjL | maybe i should add a news filter that doesn't allow any numbers that aren't in the dataset :D | 01:04 |
tinwhiskers | :-) | 01:04 |
ubLXI | tinwhiskers: well as of 4 hours ago, The Guardian thinks Wuhan City had 3869 deaths, whereas offloop is currently showing only 3222 for the whole of Hubei | 01:05 |
ynhof[m] | I wonder if they will still be vying for democratic processes | 01:06 |
tinwhiskers | hrm | 01:06 |
ubLXI | second paragraph: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/china-denies-cover-up-as-wuhan-coronavirus-deaths-revised-up-50 | 01:07 |
ubLXI | heh. must be hallucinating. the 1288 jump is 'back' under China but not Hubei | 01:14 |
ubLXI | ^ tinwhiskers | 01:14 |
ubLXI | only under 'include live data' | 01:15 |
tinwhiskers | ahh | 01:16 |
tinwhiskers | ahhhh | 01:16 |
Ralph4578 | Got two new cats, named the female Corona, and the male Covid | 01:33 |
tinwhiskers | cute :-p | 01:35 |
MinceR | poor kitties | 01:58 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:00 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: nearly 100,000 EU citizens remain stranded overseas due to pandemic → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 02:06 |
Philippe[m] | Ralph4578: They will destroy the world (as cats do). | 02:25 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:14 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: investigations into aged-care homes amid outbreaks – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB2 | 02:27 |
LjL | the way it's put in this article, i feel this poll tells me basically nothing that wasn't obvious https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-only-9-of-britons-want-life-to-return-to-normal-once-lockdown-is-over-11974459 | 02:29 |
LjL | almost nobody wants to go back to "things as before" if that's framed in terms of "we'll be equally fools if another pandemic or other catastrophe comes", that's not a surprise | 02:30 |
LjL | but then they put positive spins to things that less than 50% of interviewed people said they noticed/did | 02:30 |
LjL | now reading the full figure may well end up supporting their apparent interpretation, but i'm just saying... that article doesn't say much to me | 02:31 |
LjL | (so why did i post it? probably because realizing what things are saying or not saying is also important in my book :P) | 02:31 |
tinwhiskers | I'm more creeped out by the photo of the author. Uncanny looking for some reason. I thought it was a photo of a toy doll at first. | 02:32 |
LjL | hadn't pay attention | 02:32 |
LjL | paid | 02:33 |
LjL | but hard cold data churner... | 02:33 |
davros | yeah you could interpret this as "just 9% of people were satisfied with life" rather than 91% found an improvement they want to keep | 02:33 |
tinwhiskers | 91% of Britons don't want to go back to work | 02:34 |
davros | i will say i like the roads being empty | 02:34 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 00:26 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: New saliva test for coronavirus rolls out in New Jersey → https://is.gd/0fgs5U | 02:34 |
davros | and i am strangely encouraged by the possibility that this dramatic reduction in transport when reducing the economy to essentials might be a measurement of how little transport we could get away with | 02:34 |
davros | i have something that might sound like an inverted conspiracy theory | 02:34 |
davros | basically "if i was in charge, i'd use the coronavirus event as an opportunity to accelerate low carbon living" | 02:35 |
tinwhiskers | fair enough | 02:35 |
davros | a kick up the arse to eliminate all the unecasery journeys and maximize working from home | 02:36 |
tinwhiskers | would you keep 50% (or whatever it is) of people at home all the time? | 02:36 |
davros | where its not entirely correlated is that even bikes and walking are enough to have dangerous gatherings at the moment | 02:37 |
davros | but the fact we have to stay home to an extreme basically means we'll develop that capacity more | 02:37 |
davros | i joke it's an "isolation exercise", pun intended" | 02:37 |
davros | isolation exercise= stressing one system on it's own to an extreme | 02:38 |
tinwhiskers | so you'd plan for permanent unemployment and home detention for the majority of the population? | 02:38 |
tinwhiskers | A UBI might do it I guess | 02:38 |
davros | taht sounds negsative hah | 02:38 |
davros | i'd word it as "re-organizing the economy to get rid of the unecasery journeys" | 02:38 |
davros | changing how we work | 02:38 |
davros | the fact the existing chains of demand that determine how we work have evolved under the assumption that we can move people around easily | 02:39 |
davros | that has led us into a dead end | 02:39 |
ryouma | one thing polling can do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA | 02:40 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Why Is Anyone Still Asking Dr. Phil for His Opinion? | He thinks 360,000 people die per year in swimming pools. Don’t listen to his advice on COVID-19 (10757 votes) | https://redd.it/g38hnw | 02:40 |
tinwhiskers | davros: I don't think rewording it solves the problem of the bulk of people being confined largely to their homes and not having jobs. | 02:42 |
davros | if you look at the big picture, | 02:43 |
LjL | uh... i don't know, why? and also who is it? (@ CoronaBot) | 02:43 |
davros | we have an essential need which is food and shelter | 02:43 |
davros | and in the middle, we have a lot of discretionary "wants" being serviced | 02:43 |
davros | we've ended up in this awkward dead end where people needed cars to service those "wants" to eventually get food (their "needs") | 02:43 |
davros | Given that we can't move this many people around eventually (i'll have to qualify i'm a peak oiler) , we need a big rethink | 02:44 |
davros | i dont beleive renewables and electric cars will keep this level of mobility going | 02:44 |
tinwhiskers | davros: I think socialising and some ability to move around to fulfil dreams is critical for the survival of a society without it falling into anarchy. | 02:44 |
davros | so this way of life is over, whatever happens (IM) | 02:44 |
tinwhiskers | You can't just keep people in their homes because it's worked for a few weeks | 02:45 |
davros | the absolute quarantine isn't needed but | 02:45 |
tinwhiskers | People have short memories. In ten years things will be pretty much back to how they were. | 02:45 |
davros | the re-organization of essentials in this quarantine time shows us a baseline | 02:45 |
davros | in 10-20 years I predict conditions worse than this from oil depletion | 02:46 |
davros | and to bring up my "inverted conspiracy theory" again | 02:46 |
davros | how many other people think like me? | 02:46 |
davros | maybe they thought "ok corona kills enough to be scary enough that we'll get support for a lockdown.." | 02:46 |
davros | ">. and we need this kind of transition..." | 02:46 |
davros | "so lets do it.." | 02:47 |
tinwhiskers | Well, I'm a supporter of a UBI of some form in the next 20-50 years. I don't think living like we are under these pandemic conditions is remotely feasible for a long period of time | 02:47 |
davros | i'll have to qualify that as a peak oiler | 02:47 |
ryouma | i think lockdowns are honestly virus-related. they are the rare exception to the rule that stuff occurs because establishment actors want them to occur and uses pretexts. | 02:47 |
davros | my "middle case scenario" is a 80% die off | 02:48 |
davros | my "best case scenario" is finding some way to keep 7billion people alive without oil | 02:48 |
davros | and my "worst case scenario" is extinction :) | 02:48 |
davros | i've always expected "the future" would bring "wartime style food and fuel rationing" (due to oil depletion) | 02:48 |
davros | regarding mobility: | 02:49 |
davros | we need (IMO) to re-organize such that 90% of what people do is within walking & cycling distance | 02:49 |
ryouma | i would guess that as oil prices rise, exploration increases and alternatives gain traction. i'm sure there are precedents. | 02:49 |
[Hoffman] | yes | 02:49 |
[Hoffman] | thats the story of shale oil | 02:49 |
davros | shale oil is just another financial crisis in the making | 02:50 |
davros | its not viable at a low oil price | 02:50 |
[Hoffman] | you are | 02:50 |
[Hoffman] | it doesnt need to be | 02:50 |
davros | and the oil users can't take the price it would need to make it viable | 02:50 |
tinwhiskers | yes, but if renewables are cheaper than those increasingly difficult alternatives they don't get used | 02:50 |
[Hoffman] | they just switch on and off depending on when it's economically feasible | 02:50 |
davros | the market will eventually switch to renewables, yes | 02:50 |
davros | but there's no reason in physics or econmics that renewables must keep our current way of life going | 02:51 |
davros | thats just wishful thinking | 02:51 |
davros | our way of life is based on the abundant, energy dense fossil fuels | 02:51 |
davros | once abundant^ | 02:51 |
tinwhiskers | davros: well, I agree that this is a great situation to act as a catalyst for change but I don't think in reality much will change at all. | 02:51 |
[Hoffman] | there's also no reason in physics or economics that renewables wouldnt be able to keep our current way of life going | 02:52 |
davros | energy density | 02:52 |
[Hoffman] | unnecessary | 02:52 |
davros | minerals for batteries | 02:52 |
davros | minerals to make panels | 02:52 |
[Hoffman] | theyre there | 02:52 |
[Hoffman] | waiting to be used | 02:52 |
davros | there's supposedly some huge amount of solar energy hitting us but we can't collect it , store it ,move it to where it's needed | 02:52 |
davros | it's dispersed thinly | 02:52 |
[Hoffman] | that just takes work to fix | 02:53 |
davros | it takes a huge amount of the right minerals to build the devices | 02:53 |
[Hoffman] | that's okay. | 02:53 |
davros | and currently those devices are being built using fossil fuels | 02:53 |
[Hoffman] | doesn't mean they need to be. | 02:53 |
davros | so we dont even know if these material choices etc work in a renewable powered world | 02:53 |
[Hoffman] | I'm sure the machines dont care where the power comes from | 02:54 |
davros | what we need to demonstrate is that we can build renewable energy devices using renewable energy | 02:54 |
tinwhiskers | I really don't see that as an issue | 02:54 |
davros | there's distortions in the market calculations from incentives | 02:54 |
[Hoffman] | yeah | 02:54 |
tinwhiskers | electric motors work just fine | 02:54 |
davros | they do work fine | 02:54 |
[Hoffman] | davros: you call it distortion, I call it shaping | 02:55 |
davros | but we've yet to demonstrate we can scale up their useage | 02:55 |
[Hoffman] | we've yet to demonstrate we can't, either | 02:55 |
tinwhiskers | is there any reason to think we can't? | 02:55 |
davros | usually engineering claims are over-optimistic | 02:55 |
davros | things go wrong when you try and scale them up | 02:55 |
tinwhiskers | it's not like they don't exist | 02:55 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:43 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: Queensland offers Virgin $200m rescue package – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB2 | 02:56 |
davros | until we've proved it, we have to assume the worst | 02:56 |
[Hoffman] | nah, we dont | 02:56 |
[Hoffman] | we can assume the most likely | 02:56 |
davros | consider that we've known this is coming for decades | 02:56 |
tinwhiskers | erm. ok. I disagree | 02:56 |
[Hoffman] | known what was coming | 02:56 |
davros | and we dragged our heels. is that because a renewable powered life just isn't viable? | 02:56 |
[Hoffman] | what are you talking about | 02:56 |
davros | known that oil will one day run out | 02:57 |
ryouma | it has not run out? | 02:57 |
[Hoffman] | it hasnt | 02:57 |
davros | or more accurately "the production will go into terminal decline" | 02:57 |
tinwhiskers | *this* hasn't happened yet | 02:57 |
davros | we'll be using oil 100,500 years from now | 02:57 |
davros | just nowhere near the current amount | 02:57 |
davros | if we're using 10% the current amount its 90% accurate to say it ran out | 02:58 |
[Hoffman] | it has not run out | 02:58 |
davros | it'll be down to something like 1% when you factor in EROEI | 02:58 |
davros | it's already past peak | 02:58 |
tinwhiskers | I'm all for phasing out using oil for fuel, and we're capable of doing that if there was political or cultural will. I don't think covid-19 will change that very much. | 02:58 |
[Hoffman] | it has not run out | 02:58 |
davros | "i haven't died yet so i never will" | 02:58 |
davros | you dig it up, you burn it , its gone | 02:59 |
[Hoffman] | you're talking about it as if its an issue | 02:59 |
[Hoffman] | so far it isnt | 02:59 |
ryouma | i don't get the connection between virus and peak oil, or have any awareness of evidence of peak oil (i am ignorant, however) | 02:59 |
davros | you cannot have a lasting civilization based on digging up and burning a resource | 02:59 |
ubLIX | "usually engineering claims are over-optimistic" - engineering disciplines are characterised by a concern for precision; well, except for software engineering; i think when you said engineering, you meant marketing | 02:59 |
tinwhiskers | if you really need oil in a post-oil future where you have other energy sources you can synthesise it | 02:59 |
[Hoffman] | we'll be running into climate change issues long before peak oil becomes an issue | 02:59 |
tinwhiskers | right | 02:59 |
[Hoffman] | like, world flooding issues | 03:00 |
davros | peak oil and climate change are 2 sides of the same coin | 03:00 |
ryouma | we are alraedy running into climate change issues | 03:00 |
davros | its the same underlying problem | 03:00 |
[Hoffman] | no they arent | 03:00 |
davros | using a resource faster than it forms | 03:00 |
davros | using a resource faster than it's waste product is recycled into more of the resource | 03:00 |
[Hoffman] | climate change doesnt care how fast it forms | 03:00 |
davros | its the same underlying problem: sustainability. | 03:00 |
davros | climate change is happening because we're putting CO2 back into the atmosphere faster than photosynthesis can pull it out | 03:01 |
[Hoffman] | I have considered your application to lump "peak oil" into the climate change debate | 03:01 |
[Hoffman] | my verdict | 03:01 |
[Hoffman] | is to deny the application | 03:01 |
davros | everything is connected | 03:01 |
[Hoffman] | I have concluded that the problem of "peak oil", which is, we're going to run out of oil and thus suddenly not have fuel or new plastic, is different from the issue of climate change, which is, the world will flood | 03:01 |
ryouma | and more | 03:02 |
davros | tinwhiskers just said "if you had another energy source, you could synthesise oil" | 03:02 |
[Hoffman] | in other words, we dont have to worry about peak oil, or running out of oil, or suddenly not having fuel | 03:02 |
davros | which is true | 03:02 |
davros | but the problem is "will we have another energy source that matches oil" | 03:02 |
davros | if we do, we could pull CO2 out of the atmosphere fast enough | 03:02 |
[Hoffman] | it wont matter | 03:02 |
tinwhiskers | yes, if we want. solar/wind/tidal/nuclear | 03:02 |
[Hoffman] | we'll all be dead before that question is asked | 03:02 |
[Hoffman] | due to climate change | 03:02 |
tinwhiskers | both nuclear and tidal are base-load capable. | 03:03 |
tinwhiskers | solar + crazy batteries could possibly do base load but it's a stretch | 03:03 |
tinwhiskers | oh, and of course hydro is base-load capable | 03:03 |
[Hoffman] | who needs oil when we're all dead | 03:03 |
davros | if you're right then we'll see my "optimist scenario", i.e we'll avoid a massive die off | 03:03 |
davros | i hope you're right | 03:03 |
davros | but i prefer proof | 03:03 |
[Hoffman] | the die off will be from climate change | 03:03 |
davros | "hope is a shitty hedge" | 03:03 |
[Hoffman] | not running out of oil | 03:03 |
davros | but | 03:03 |
davros | if there is a suitable energy source.. | 03:03 |
[Hoffman] | then it wont matter | 03:04 |
davros | .. we could just pull Co2 out of the atmosphere | 03:04 |
[Hoffman] | we'll all die from climate change first | 03:04 |
[Hoffman] | we wont | 03:04 |
[Hoffman] | there wont be a fix | 03:04 |
davros | so the real question is "is there a suitable energy source to replace fossil fuels" | 03:04 |
[Hoffman] | we're doomed | 03:04 |
ryouma | "just"? | 03:04 |
[Hoffman] | it doesnt matter | 03:04 |
davros | ywa | 03:04 |
[Hoffman] | we'll all die before we need to replace fossil fuels | 03:04 |
davros | if we had the holy grail, fusion, | 03:04 |
[Hoffman] | humanity is doomed | 03:04 |
[Hoffman] | RIP | 03:05 |
[Hoffman] | it wont matter | 03:05 |
[Hoffman] | even then | 03:05 |
[Hoffman] | all the fusion plants will flood | 03:05 |
davros | we could just power carbon capture | 03:05 |
[Hoffman] | we couldnt | 03:05 |
[Hoffman] | its not going to happen dude | 03:05 |
[Hoffman] | we're dead | 03:05 |
[Hoffman] | DEAD | 03:05 |
davros | it is fundementally an issue of energy | 03:05 |
danielp3344 | plants! | 03:05 |
[Hoffman] | no it isnt | 03:05 |
ubLIX | davros: there is a company in BC, Canada that is pulling CO2 out of the atmosphere and using it to synthesise fuel | 03:06 |
davros | if we had enough *other* energy we could pull the CO2 back out of the atmosphere | 03:06 |
danielp3344 | Ethanol and wood gas are great replacements for fossil fuels | 03:06 |
[Hoffman] | it's fundamentally an issue of, is humanity willing to put forth the effort required to capture that carbon | 03:06 |
[Hoffman] | and the answer is, no | 03:06 |
davros | its not limited by effort | 03:06 |
davros | its limited by energy sources | 03:06 |
[Hoffman] | it is | 03:06 |
[Hoffman] | nope | 03:06 |
[Hoffman] | need to develop the tech to do it | 03:06 |
[Hoffman] | need to build that tech | 03:06 |
danielp3344 | Carbon capture is hard, also it would not work well on cars or portable engines | 03:06 |
navonod | its all the fault of capitalism | 03:06 |
[Hoffman] | its all the fault of people | 03:07 |
danielp3344 | But if you burn ethanol that carbon has to be sucked out of the air by a plant to be used again | 03:07 |
davros | you could power grow lights | 03:07 |
davros | let plants do it | 03:07 |
davros | algae | 03:07 |
danielp3344 | davros: we have a sun | 03:07 |
davros | if you had fusion | 03:07 |
davros | all plants are solar powered | 03:08 |
danielp3344 | the sun puts out way more energy than we use | 03:08 |
davros | and they can't pull carbon out as fast as we emit it | 03:08 |
navonod | its true | 03:08 |
davros | thats the measure of unsustainability | 03:08 |
danielp3344 | davros: if all your cabon comes from plants it must | 03:08 |
[Hoffman] | and we never will | 03:08 |
[Hoffman] | RIP humanity | 03:08 |
davros | if we had enough energy (by our current standards) we could pull carbon out of the air as fast as we emit it | 03:08 |
davros | the problem is fundementally energy | 03:08 |
danielp3344 | because to get more fuel you'd need to plant more plants | 03:08 |
davros | algae | 03:08 |
[Hoffman] | no it isnt | 03:08 |
davros | easy to grow | 03:09 |
[Hoffman] | the problem is fundamentally will | 03:09 |
[Hoffman] | whos gonna build those fusion power plants | 03:09 |
danielp3344 | davros: 500 million years ago or so, earth's atmosphere had much more co2 than it does now | 03:09 |
davros | yes | 03:09 |
[Hoffman] | whos gonna use the energy to pull carbon out of the atmosphere | 03:09 |
navonod | people said the oceans would balance out the greenhouse gases but they actually make the problem worse | 03:09 |
davros | over time nature has reduced the CO2 level | 03:09 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: The sun is a fusion plant | 03:09 |
[Hoffman] | nobody, thats who | 03:09 |
[Hoffman] | danielp3344: great lets just bring it here | 03:09 |
danielp3344 | Plants have put all that carbon in the ground, and we're digging it up and spewing it back into the air | 03:09 |
davros | it takes a lot of efffort to do offshore oil rigs | 03:09 |
davros | we have enough will and"effort" | 03:10 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:52 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: China pushes for 'comprehensive' economic reopening as global deaths pass 150,000 → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 03:10 |
danielp3344 | if we stop doing that, and collect carbon strait from the plants, it's a smaller, closed cycle | 03:10 |
davros | we dont have any viable enregy sources that scale far enough | 03:10 |
[Hoffman] | effort isnt will | 03:10 |
[Hoffman] | we have the will to do stuff that makes huge corporations money | 03:10 |
iz | most offshore oil rigs can't operate now with oil at it's current price | 03:10 |
danielp3344 | you people aren't listening | 03:10 |
[Hoffman] | we dont have the will to do stuff that helps the earth and everyone on it for no reason | 03:10 |
danielp3344 | just stop drilling for oil and plant corn | 03:10 |
[Hoffman] | thats why we're doomed | 03:10 |
davros | danielp3344, you're suggesting biofuel | 03:11 |
danielp3344 | davros: yes | 03:11 |
davros | and i do not beleive biofuel will cut it | 03:11 |
danielp3344 | ethanol in particular | 03:11 |
davros | it works, but it will not produce as much fuel as we use today | 03:11 |
danielp3344 | at least here in the USA we grow way more corn than we need | 03:11 |
davros | the USA has 4.5% of the worlds population | 03:11 |
davros | ironically its the most oil addicted nation, and the best placed to switch to renewables | 03:12 |
danielp3344 | davros: I've never looked at the numbers actually, one sec | 03:12 |
davros | 330million / 7.8billion | 03:12 |
danielp3344 | davros: I meant for energy consuption | 03:12 |
davros | 4%-5% whatever it is.. thats the ballpark | 03:12 |
danielp3344 | consumption* | 03:12 |
davros | basically for biofuel you need a very low population density | 03:12 |
davros | which is why I think fossil fuel depletion will bring about a massive die-off | 03:12 |
[Hoffman] | nope | 03:13 |
[Hoffman] | we'll all be dead already | 03:13 |
PTY | davros, environmental damage could do that | 03:13 |
[Hoffman] | decades earlier | 03:13 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: we wouldn't all die | 03:13 |
PTY | yes, if not centuries | 03:13 |
[Hoffman] | yep, all of us | 03:13 |
danielp3344 | what would kill us? | 03:13 |
[Hoffman] | sea level rises | 03:13 |
iz | this chat :b | 03:13 |
[Hoffman] | flaming tornados | 03:13 |
[Hoffman] | murdercanes | 03:13 |
davros | eventually starvation, but fighting over the scraps most likely | 03:13 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: sea level rise would trigger a huge die off, then plants would take over and bring them back | 03:14 |
danielp3344 | it's self regulating to an extent | 03:14 |
[Hoffman] | plants would take over what | 03:14 |
[Hoffman] | the ocean? | 03:14 |
[Hoffman] | LOL | 03:14 |
danielp3344 | hopefully humanity sees that wall coming before it's too late | 03:14 |
[Hoffman] | TOO LATE | 03:14 |
[Hoffman] | ITS ALREADY TOO LATE | 03:14 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: yes, just like the algae that first put oxygen in the atmosphere | 03:14 |
[Hoffman] | there's no going back now | 03:14 |
[Hoffman] | burn it all | 03:14 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: you're not helping | 03:15 |
PTY | here is the article that estimates what would happen if we burned all the fossil fuels | 03:15 |
PTY | https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate3036 | 03:15 |
davros | yeah this POV is covered | 03:15 |
[Hoffman] | danielp3344: that will be nice for when they evolve back into beings | 03:15 |
davros | stages of climate change response | 03:15 |
davros | [1] "it might not be real" | 03:15 |
derpadmin | hopefully humanity sees that wall coming before it's too late : humanity : see the wall for years now, looks away | 03:15 |
davros | [2] "ok maybe its real but its really chinas fault" | 03:15 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: are you doing anything about this? | 03:15 |
[Hoffman] | danielp3344: about what | 03:15 |
davros | [3] "ok it's real and unstopable so burn it all" | 03:15 |
danielp3344 | davros: my response is "It's real and if people would stop having stupid arguments we could fix it" | 03:16 |
[Hoffman] | too late; we're past the point of no return | 03:16 |
navonod | good one | 03:16 |
LjL | and if we can't, this is imo not the place to gloat about it, if for some reason it gives anyone pleasure to gloat about it... | 03:16 |
[Hoffman] | let the resource wars begin | 03:16 |
navonod | humans are adaptable | 03:16 |
davros | myh response is it;'s tied to energy. if we had a viable energy source we could switch, but we're used to more than is available under a sustainable scenario | 03:16 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: I propose you shut down whatever device you're using and let the rest of us live a bit longer | 03:17 |
[Hoffman] | there's not a magical machine that consumes energy and sequesters carbon from the atmosphere | 03:17 |
[Hoffman] | even if we had free energy | 03:17 |
navonod | the planet is literally the most complex system in the world... we as people do not understand all of its systems | 03:17 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: yes there is | 03:17 |
davros | carbon capture machines have been built | 03:17 |
ubLIX | [Hoffman]: actually there is | 03:17 |
davros | and you could power grow lights in tanks of algae | 03:17 |
[Hoffman] | we would still be limited by will to do anything | 03:17 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: just bubble air through water and collect the caebonic acid and stuff | 03:17 |
davros | if you had energy you could do it | 03:17 |
danielp3344 | carbonic* | 03:17 |
davros | its fundementally an energy issue | 03:17 |
ubLIX | if we put down one industrial scale carbon capture plant for every city on Earth then we have an engineering problem we can tinker with | 03:18 |
[Hoffman] | how dude | 03:18 |
danielp3344 | But plants create energy while consuming carbon | 03:18 |
[Hoffman] | how do you do it with just energy and no machines | 03:18 |
davros | duh | 03:18 |
danielp3344 | Plants also self replicate | 03:18 |
navonod | its true.. I'm an herbalist | 03:18 |
[Hoffman] | duh | 03:18 |
davros | i mean use energy and a machine | 03:18 |
navonod | each plant does it at a different speed too | 03:18 |
[Hoffman] | who is gonna make that machine | 03:18 |
davros | but its fundementally a question of "do we have enough energy" | 03:18 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: The plants! | 03:18 |
[Hoffman] | no, it's fundamentally a question of "who's gonna build it" | 03:19 |
LjL | [Hoffman], do you have anything constructive here, or just "we're all going to die, let the wars begin, *rubs hands*"? | 03:19 |
davros | we can make the machines | 03:19 |
davros | the question is can we power them | 03:19 |
[Hoffman] | or rather, who's gonna fund it | 03:19 |
[Hoffman] | LjL: I feel that realism is constructive | 03:19 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: I built a wood gas generator to run my truck off plants | 03:19 |
danielp3344 | It's cheaper than gas too | 03:19 |
[Hoffman] | LjL: admittedly, it doesnt make us feel good | 03:19 |
[Hoffman] | but it's constructive nonetheless | 03:19 |
LjL | how so? | 03:19 |
LjL | what does it construct? | 03:19 |
davros | anyone who has property around the coast has an incentive to fund it | 03:19 |
ubLIX | [Hoffman]: to be realistic here, you need to have domain expertise | 03:19 |
[Hoffman] | because being more aware of reality helps us make decisions as a result | 03:20 |
davros | but there's also ways to pull carbon out of the air and make something saleable as a result | 03:20 |
davros | like plastics | 03:20 |
LjL | [Hoffman], but your premise seems to be that no decisions we can still make can let us avoid the unavoidable | 03:20 |
[Hoffman] | LjL: that doesnt mean it doesnt inform decisions | 03:20 |
[Hoffman] | e.g. if you plan on grinding the next 20-30 years and then retiring all nice and cushy | 03:20 |
[Hoffman] | maybe change those plans | 03:20 |
[Hoffman] | and make the most of the next 20 or 30 years | 03:20 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: no way we'll all be dead in 20 years | 03:21 |
[Hoffman] | hope springs eternal!!! | 03:21 |
davros | 50% of us could be | 03:21 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: I'd bet you anything you want that earth's population will be bigger than today in 20 years | 03:21 |
davros | my middle scenario prediction is 2billion survivors by the end of the century | 03:21 |
[Hoffman] | danielp3344: ok | 03:21 |
[Hoffman] | 1 doge | 03:21 |
[Hoffman] | its a deal | 03:21 |
[Hoffman] | pm me in 20 years | 03:21 |
ryouma | at this time i'm more concerned about the virus, and about those who have higher priorities, including laziness and agendas, than the virus, and the effect of those priorities | 03:22 |
LjL | i don't like this conversation | 03:22 |
LjL | i agree with ryouma | 03:22 |
danielp3344 | LjL: me either | 03:22 |
danielp3344 | somehow I was supposed to be doing school work, but IRC.... | 03:22 |
[Hoffman] | yeah I wanna live for at least 20 or 30 years | 03:22 |
navonod | insane people in Michigan | 03:22 |
[Hoffman] | screw this virus man | 03:22 |
LjL | ##climatechange or ##doom or something probably exists. i can understand that this topic is somehow related, and tangentially sprang up from, the virus, but now it's just a flamewar of "we'll live" vs "we'll die" | 03:22 |
[Hoffman] | I sees a topic, I joins a topic | 03:23 |
[Hoffman] | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 03:23 |
LjL | if you want to be like "screw this virus", then this channel is... well... either for you, or not for you, depending on how you mean it | 03:23 |
LjL | well, fair enough | 03:23 |
LjL | i declare the topic over! | 03:23 |
LjL | \o/ | 03:23 |
danielp3344 | [Hoffman]: step 3 is supposed to be 'talk about the topic' | 03:23 |
danielp3344 | as in /topic | 03:23 |
[Hoffman] | ok | 03:23 |
[Hoffman] | very handsome topic | 03:23 |
[Hoffman] | the greatest | 03:24 |
Spec | the best topic, really | 03:24 |
navonod | Mohammad ali? | 03:24 |
[Hoffman] | https://www.wsj.com/articles/south-koreas-new-coronavirus-twist-recovered-patients-test-positive-again-11587145248?mod=e2tw | 03:27 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 01:08 UTC: worldnews: China Says There Is No Coronavirus Cover-Up Because Cover-Ups Are Not Permitted → https://is.gd/ThIDVC | 03:31 |
tinwhiskers | That's sound logic :-/ | 03:31 |
navonod | LOL | 03:32 |
navonod | fucking sound logic | 03:32 |
tinwhiskers | *cough* tiananmen *cough* | 03:32 |
navonod | murdering homeless people doesn't happen either | 03:32 |
navonod | because its illegal | 03:32 |
ecov | north korea logic | 03:32 |
tinwhiskers | right | 03:32 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:31 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: China pushes for 'comprehensive' economic reopening as global deaths pass 150,000 → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 03:38 |
ryouma | are they unwilling to use the word as consistently for some reason? why combine 2 things sometimes when theyare related and sometimes when not? | 03:41 |
tinwhiskers | ryouma: I hear ya. I hate the "as" thing used to link two entirely unrelated items. I want to slap the editor. | 03:45 |
davros | *cough* tianamen *cough* | 03:47 |
davros | *cough* covid19 *cough* .. *cough* *cough* oh shit | 03:47 |
LjL | ryouma, tinwhiskers: i don't know if "editor" is the name for the person who decides about headlines, but let's definitely reinstate corporal punishment for whoever does that, in general | 03:48 |
LjL | headlines are almost always misleading | 03:48 |
LjL | and i believe the journalists who actually writes the articles tend to hate the headlines they are imposed | 03:49 |
ubLIX | just so you know, the 'cover up' headline you're reacting to is a reddit reaction to this: https://nationalfile.com/china-says-there-is-no-coronavirus-cover-up-because-cover-ups-are-not-permitted/ | 03:50 |
ubLIX | which mediabiasfactcheck.com judges to be "Overall, we rate National File an extreme right Tin Foil Hat Conspiracy website based on the promotion of unproven/debunked claims and a Strong Pseudoscience purveyor based on using junk science to support claims." | 03:51 |
ubLIX | I am my country are a natural enemy of China. | 03:51 |
ubLIX | Can we just go ahead and change the channel name to ##HatchetJobs | 03:51 |
LjL | oh i was reacting to nothing in particular, just headlines in general | 03:51 |
LjL | it's not like i read what Brainstorm posts | 03:52 |
ubLIX | Because I am getting pretty fucking bored of pointing out the moronic distortions of journalism that are going on here | 03:52 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:45 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China reports no new deaths, global cases total more than 2.2 million → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 03:52 |
ubLIX | And bored of having to seem to be defending China | 03:53 |
ubLIX | </rant> | 03:53 |
ubLIX | s/I am my/I and my/ | 03:56 |
ubLIX | fucking keyboard warriors | 03:57 |
iz | the pres of the usa is in a hurry to blame anyone but himself, and so are his loyal media outlets and more fanatical supporters | 03:58 |
iz | so i think that's why there's so much more of that recently | 03:58 |
davros | i bet most of the "its just flu" people are trumpers | 04:02 |
davros | and he probably estimated correctly originally that a lot of his supporters didnt care about it, hence his original statements that "its a hoax" | 04:04 |
davros | the UK government fucked up aswell but trump's u-turn is just amazing | 04:05 |
davros | "its just a a hoax" -> "we blame the chinese and WHO for not warning us" | 04:05 |
davros | how the hell do his supporters rationalise that | 04:05 |
iz | well, w/ trump there's a method to his madness.. the states he is suggesting over twitter to liberate themselves are battleground states w/ dem leadership | 04:06 |
iz | but let's just put that can of worms back on the shelf | 04:07 |
ynhof[m] | Can placement 10/10, would recommend again | 04:08 |
ynhof[m] | (Claps) | 04:09 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:05 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: another death in both Tasmania and Queensland – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB2 | 04:13 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:15 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports 623 new cases, another death → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 04:20 |
xlxl[m] | yo | 04:26 |
xlxl[m] | free speech zone? | 04:27 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: pardon? | 04:28 |
xlxl[m] | asking if this place has free speech standards | 04:28 |
xlxl[m] | or do you guys not allow what is considered "misinformation" | 04:28 |
danielp3344 | All places have free speech, until they don't | 04:28 |
ubLIX | this place has anti-stupidity standards | 04:28 |
ubLIX | proceed at your own risk | 04:28 |
danielp3344 | speak your mind and see how long you can keep it up :D | 04:28 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: now I want to know | 04:29 |
xlxl[m] | what do you wanna know | 04:29 |
danielp3344 | I'll listen | 04:29 |
xlxl[m] | nah nothing just wanted to know if free speech is allowed | 04:29 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: oh :/ | 04:29 |
danielp3344 | I assumed you had something to say | 04:29 |
xlxl[m] | well i dont believe the virus exists | 04:30 |
xlxl[m] | or is dangerous | 04:30 |
danielp3344 | you can say whatever you want but you might get kicked out | 04:30 |
xlxl[m] | i guess thats something | 04:30 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: but conway is dead | 04:30 |
danielp3344 | And, why wouldn't it exist? | 04:30 |
ynhof[m] | I am thinking we could meet in ²0²² if I build a submarine | 04:30 |
xlxl[m] | no proof it does | 04:30 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: well, unless you've been there there is no proof china exists | 04:31 |
danielp3344 | yet you believe it does? | 04:31 |
ynhof[m] | Yeah I feel the same xlxl that is so weird, no one else has said this though | 04:31 |
ynhof[m] | I even got infected | 04:31 |
xlxl[m] | i mean scientific proof | 04:31 |
xlxl[m] | not conspiracies | 04:31 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: I'm confused | 04:32 |
xlxl[m] | like how do you know that people are getting sick from covid 19 | 04:32 |
xlxl[m] | who proved that covid 19 is contagious | 04:32 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: hospitals say they are? | 04:32 |
xlxl[m] | and causing infections | 04:32 |
xlxl[m] | how do hospitals know | 04:33 |
pyna | https://i.redd.it/kt5tja54k4t41.jpg | 04:33 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: because a lot more people are getting sick and dying | 04:33 |
xlxl[m] | actually not true | 04:33 |
xlxl[m] | have you seen the pneumonia deaths | 04:33 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: I have not | 04:33 |
xlxl[m] | or CVD | 04:33 |
xlxl[m] | they have decreased | 04:33 |
xlxl[m] | less people dying from all cause mortalities | 04:34 |
pyna | oh is this the sea lion militia | 04:34 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: at least in places like Italy, many more people were hospitalized than normal | 04:34 |
danielp3344 | Birosso: oi! | 04:34 |
Birosso | What? | 04:35 |
ubLIX | well this is all very entertaining | 04:35 |
xlxl[m] | okay sure even if i believe that suddenly more people in italy got hospitalized | 04:35 |
danielp3344 | Birosso: *I* am a matrix user | 04:35 |
xlxl[m] | how do you know its covid 19 | 04:35 |
danielp3344 | I'd like to think I'm a decent person (at least in this room) | 04:35 |
ubLIX | xlxl[m]: why would you doubt it? | 04:35 |
xlxl[m] | it happened in northern italy at a time where pollution was through the roof | 04:35 |
xlxl[m] | and | 04:35 |
Birosso | Do you quote text with angle brackets? | 04:35 |
Birosso | Do you? | 04:35 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: the thing that is causing the hospitalizations is called covid19 | 04:35 |
ynhof[m] | This part is interesting let them tell us about the pollutants | 04:36 |
xlxl[m] | but how do you know its covid19. | 04:36 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: that's just what we call it :P | 04:36 |
xlxl[m] | ya but how do you know its a viral infection | 04:37 |
xlxl[m] | maybe its environmental | 04:37 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: I don't actually | 04:37 |
danielp3344 | I'm just taking people's word for it | 04:37 |
danielp3344 | why shouldn't it be? | 04:37 |
ynhof[m] | But you can't just call all yellow food cheese. It actually has to be cheese. | 04:37 |
ynhof[m] | Just calling it covid19 is an oversight | 04:37 |
xlxl[m] | because it was never proven to spread from person to person or cause any disease | 04:37 |
xlxl[m] | like there are scientific standards | 04:38 |
xlxl[m] | like | 04:38 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: well it hasn't been very long | 04:38 |
xlxl[m] | Koch's postulates | 04:38 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: have you an alternative hypothesis? | 04:38 |
davros | xlxl[m] so you think it's a globalist plot to get people to get chipped through a vaccine, or they just thought panicking the whole world economy into shutdown would be a laugh | 04:38 |
danielp3344 | I guess I don't see how it matters? | 04:38 |
xlxl[m] | a golden standard to prove if a virus is infectious and dangerous | 04:38 |
davros | for it to be made up there'd have to be motivation | 04:38 |
davros | xlxl[m], out of interest what shape do you think the earth is | 04:39 |
danielp3344 | davros: well, collapsing the world economy could let someone emerge as a powerful entity | 04:39 |
xlxl[m] | i mean i could only speculate the reason | 04:39 |
xlxl[m] | round | 04:39 |
xlxl[m] | why? | 04:39 |
danielp3344 | davros: its a triangle | 04:39 |
danielp3344 | well, lots of triangles | 04:39 |
ynhof[m] | Misinformation = engagement² | 04:39 |
danielp3344 | lol | 04:40 |
LjL | xlxl[m], you're aware we don't take completely out-there, not even *close* to scientifically accepted theories, here? | 04:40 |
xlxl[m] | i suggest this one video | 04:40 |
tinwhiskers | xlxl[m]: the effects on the lungs are fairly specific, and we are doing PCR tests to confirm the virus is present and in high numbers. There's not much to dispute really. Are you seriously saying you don't believe the virus exists? | 04:40 |
davros | its too much effort to fake this | 04:40 |
xlxl[m] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3LgrcDAlJs&t=112s | 04:40 |
xlxl[m] | for an introductory | 04:40 |
ynhof[m] | No wonder we believe the virus is fake, they only publish nonsense so we read it | 04:40 |
davros | basically you need all the hospitals around the world to be in onit | 04:40 |
danielp3344 | xlxl: can you summarize? my internet conection cant really handle video | 04:41 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:33 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 04:41 |
danielp3344 | LjL: hey! | 04:41 |
ynhof[m] | Rude | 04:41 |
tinwhiskers | danielp3344: he's be quieted for spreading nonsense | 04:41 |
Butterfly^ | https://www.theonion.com/billions-of-viruses-gathered-outside-michigan-state-cap-1842925435 | 04:41 |
danielp3344 | I object to this | 04:42 |
Birosso | Typical Matrix user. | 04:42 |
danielp3344 | He wasn't doing any harm | 04:42 |
LjL-Matrix | I was not a part in this conversation, but when I asked whether he was aware of this channel's general ideas he didn't answer and instead just told us to watch some videos... but beyond that, I had been asked to ban him on the Matrix side because not all IRC ops can do it from there | 04:43 |
ynhof[m] | For once I had someone to agree with | 04:43 |
tinwhiskers | danielp3344: if you're looking for people who are spreading obvious misinformation you need to look somewhere other than this. This channel is for discussions of things of a more empirical nature. | 04:43 |
danielp3344 | Wasn't even being offensive | 04:43 |
davros | he was talking utter nonsense though | 04:43 |
Birosso | Disrupting the channel by spreading nonsense (for extend periods of time) warrants a quiet, if you ask me. | 04:43 |
ynhof[m] | Well I am glad I keep my m | 04:43 |
danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: I didn't watch the video but I don't think he said anything untrue | 04:44 |
LjL | danielp3344, you/he mentioned northern Italy. i am there. we may have had some "pollution", for sure, i haven't checked levels. we SURE AS HELL aren't running our crematoriums over capacity without relatives being able to say goodbye for... pollution. that's just insulting. | 04:44 |
LjL | if you call that "doing no harm", well, yeah, i guess technically you cannot physically harm someone over IRC | 04:44 |
LjL | in my view that's enough harm though | 04:44 |
tinwhiskers | danielp3344: he said the virus doesn't exist and the sickness is just environmental pollution | 04:44 |
danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: he did not say that | 04:44 |
danielp3344 | even if he did | 04:44 |
danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: can you *prove* it? | 04:44 |
davros | he did | 04:44 |
Birosso | Prove what, Daniel? | 04:45 |
danielp3344 | Birosso: prove the virus exists | 04:46 |
davros | ok to be fair - he said "MAYBE it's environmental" , but he also explicitely said he didn't beleive the virus existed | 04:46 |
danielp3344 | I mean I haven't gotten a chance to study any cases | 04:46 |
ynhof[m] | I am sorry for siding with them | 04:46 |
tinwhiskers | danielp3344: stop the nonsense please | 04:46 |
Birosso | I'm not a medical expert, virologist, epidemiologist or what have you. | 04:46 |
davros | thats why i asked him what shape the earth is | 04:46 |
danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: I'm not adhering to his theory I'm just saying it was bad form to bad him | 04:46 |
danielp3344 | ban him* | 04:46 |
davros | its just like a flat earther chat | 04:46 |
Birosso | Why should the burden of proving it fall upon me? | 04:46 |
davros | "i haven't seen the virus so i dont beleive it" | 04:47 |
danielp3344 | Birosso: it shouldn't | 04:47 |
LjL | danielp3344, there is no "free speech" right in this particular place | 04:47 |
Birosso | You just asked us to prove it! | 04:47 |
LjL | if you think there is, by law, then you have the law wrong | 04:47 |
danielp3344 | but if you want to prove him wrong you should do so rather than banning him | 04:47 |
ynhof[m] | Eh it was likely a jokester anyway, let it goo | 04:47 |
tinwhiskers | danielp3344: we have a policy in this channel that obvious lies or misinformation are strictly off topic. | 04:47 |
danielp3344 | LjL: I didn't claim there was, I was just complaining about the lack | 04:47 |
davros | someone coming in with that... "the virus isn't real" ... is flat-earther level insane | 04:47 |
Birosso | He was claiming something that went against what the experts are telling us. | 04:47 |
Birosso | You know, the people who are supposed to handle this sort of thing. | 04:48 |
Birosso | The burden of proof falls upon him. | 04:48 |
danielp3344 | Birosso: agreed | 04:48 |
LjL | Birosso, you mean like... the WHO telling us that masks are useless? :> | 04:48 |
danielp3344 | but he wasn't trying to prove anything I dont think? | 04:48 |
danielp3344 | LjL: yeah I was gonna say... | 04:48 |
tinwhiskers | giving advice the the virus doesn't exist or is no worse than the flu can cause harm if that message is widely believed like on some other social media platforms. We don't accept that bullshit here. | 04:48 |
Birosso | LjL: Experts are people. They're susceptible to corruption and aren't infallible. | 04:48 |
Spec | to be fair, the virus is very tiny and difficult to see. | 04:48 |
Birosso | But at some point, we have to trust them. | 04:48 |
danielp3344 | Birosso: you never have to trust anyone | 04:49 |
danielp3344 | but it often works better if you do | 04:49 |
Birosso | LjL: Did they actually say that, verbatim? | 04:49 |
jester | daniel thinks nothing kill all those people | 04:49 |
Spec | Birosso: trust me, i'm an expert. | 04:49 |
LjL | danielp3344, but really, although i got into this conversation late... it was my line of thought pretty much from the beginning that i wouldn't accept completely out-there theories in this channel. i don't want them. i don't want all of us to waste resources, and perhaps even get enraged (because we're humans and we happen) on every single person coming in with some foolish theory that's both foolish and offensive to the actual suffering going on from this | 04:49 |
danielp3344 | people without a motive are generally best to trust | 04:49 |
davros | we take a lot of what we're taught and what the media says on faith but to fake the existance of this virus would be very hard | 04:49 |
LjL | Birosso, no | 04:49 |
Birosso | Spec: I do. Please lathe my wood. | 04:49 |
davros | it would be a flat earther level conspiracy | 04:50 |
danielp3344 | LjL: well, it was more interesting that complaining that we'll all be dead in 30 years :/ | 04:50 |
davros | all the worlds hospitals or all the media outlets and all the governments being "in on it" | 04:50 |
Spec | Birosso: https://imgur.com/a/jUA7CVX | 04:50 |
LjL | danielp3344, well... can't deny that | 04:50 |
ynhof[m] | Anyone here get pretty sick? | 04:51 |
danielp3344 | Also your stance is almost as ridiculous as his | 04:51 |
danielp3344 | yn×hof: yes but not covid | 04:51 |
Birosso | Spec: Now I want one too. | 04:51 |
Spec | Birosso: it didn't explode this time :) | 04:51 |
ynhof[m] | Sorry to hear that. Daniel | 04:51 |
Spec | ynhof[m]: i've been pretty sick before, ya | 04:51 |
danielp3344 | I'll be fine | 04:52 |
LjL | danielp3344, my stance is how i run this channel though. now if i'm guilty of applying unequal standards to this person compared to the other person you were arguing against earlier, yes, i may very well be guilty of that. honestly i was close to banning the other one, and this time, i banned because i was technically asked to. which lets me bring in the topic that other ops don't necessarily behave exactly the same as me (but for that matter, i won't | 04:53 |
LjL | behave the same one day as the next), and this is expected, and i think this is okay, and i don't actually want to create rules and policies that must be followed. right now, seeing the scrollback, i can only endorse the ban, anyway. | 04:53 |
Birosso | Too long. Did not read. | 04:53 |
danielp3344 | Birosso: can I get some? | 04:53 |
Birosso | You want some? | 04:54 |
Birosso | All the way over there... | 04:54 |
LjL | danielp3344, only if you jump high enough, i think he's doing some pretty impressive throws | 04:54 |
Birosso | On the other side of the bridge? | 04:54 |
ynhof[m] | Idon't think you know what that means Daniel | 04:54 |
danielp3344 | yn×hof: It's more fun to think about | 04:54 |
Birosso | *scoffs* Matrix users | 04:54 |
LjL | Birosso: troll | 04:54 |
Spec | LjL: one thing i wonder about is, if this thang is so infectious and has such a great number of asymptomatic carriers, how can/could china possibly have identified an origin? they would have only been aware when the first couple severe cases were reported | 04:54 |
Birosso | LjL: Me? | 04:54 |
danielp3344 | Birosso: I could just as easily do that about IRC | 04:54 |
danielp3344 | LjL: at least he doesn't ban people :/ | 04:55 |
ubLIX | Spec: they have not identified an origin | 04:55 |
tinwhiskers | Spec: the date of infection helps a bit, then contact tracing and genetic analysis to fine-tune it | 04:55 |
LjL | Spec, there's always been a bit of doubt about the seafood market being an origin, tbh. but also i'm not a huge believer in a "great" number of asymptomatic carriers... at least depending on how we define "great" | 04:55 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:50 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: three more deaths take national total to 68 – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB2 | 04:55 |
LjL | Spec, 50% of people infected being asymptomatic? i can believe that, it's sort of consistent with the Iceland analysis too, i think...? but, 50% or more of our population already having gotten it? nope. | 04:56 |
tinwhiskers | agreed | 04:56 |
Spec | well, but i mean.... | 04:56 |
LjL | Spec, now honestly i haven't read either study to the extent of knowing what amount of asymptomatic people they are assuming/inferring | 04:56 |
davros | i'm seeing some articles claiming "recent antibody testing indicates a higher number of asympomatic cases than previously thought", chances of this being wishful thinking? (to inspire the idea that its lethality is lower)? | 04:56 |
Spec | surely people (even first vector) got it/spread it/recovered, possibly even without knowing | 04:56 |
Spec | how can you trace that? | 04:56 |
tinwhiskers | contact tracing and testing | 04:57 |
LjL | Spec, the early one may never have been traced | 04:57 |
LjL | ones* | 04:57 |
davros | a claim like that makes me think it's over-optimism at work (tell people what they want to hear to make your organization popular) | 04:58 |
Spec | and antibody tests aren't enough to determine genetic lineage, right? | 04:58 |
LjL | Spec, but as to others, yeah, if you can do what tinwhiskers said effectively... you find someone *with* symptoms, they test positive, you trace their contacts, and some of the ones *without* symptoms also test positive | 04:58 |
LjL | Spec, i think i can answer no to that. but PCR tests can | 04:58 |
Spec | yeah, did/does china have the number of tests to do that at hte time (december/january)? | 04:58 |
tinwhiskers | Spec: have you seen this site? https://nextstrain.org/ncov | 04:58 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: yeap | 04:58 |
davros | there was the navy ship or something where they tested almost everyone | 04:58 |
ynhof[m] | I have a suspicion/superstition there are long term asymptomatic or partially symptomatic carriers that will not realise their infection, and will carry for months | 04:58 |
yuriwho | hey does anyone here use Slack as their irc client? | 04:59 |
LjL | davros, it all depends on what they mean by "previously" thought. at some point it was thought to be like... 14% asymptomatics, and that was "considered high" | 04:59 |
LjL | (going by something that was said here recently) | 04:59 |
LjL | yuriwho, yikes, no. | 04:59 |
davros | ok 25%->50% = increase | 04:59 |
tinwhiskers | ynhof[m]: you mean complete speculation? | 04:59 |
Spec | LjL: i agree that it is a "huge" number, but not like, huge compared to population | 04:59 |
davros | plus maybe a navy ship had exceptionally healthy people? | 04:59 |
yuriwho | LjL: it's for people that are glued to their slack for work | 04:59 |
ynhof[m] | Very minor anecdotal evidence, which some may say is worse | 05:00 |
Spec | just that, perhaps, this means it'll be a huge challenge, or impossible, to determine origin | 05:00 |
davros | not sedentary average westerners but active military personle | 05:00 |
tinwhiskers | ynhof[m]: right | 05:00 |
Spec | even ...region | 05:00 |
LjL | ynhof[m], tinwhiskers: maybe not *complete* speculation, when recovery from this may be quite long, and in some cases, after supposed recovery, people tested positive again (and unless something went very wrong in Korea, these are not just a couple of cases) | 05:00 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: although to your point, perhaps its infectiousness+% chance of severeness betrays the region and isolates it well enough | 05:00 |
LjL | Spec, unless we get LUCKY, and it turns out the virus keeps lurking around in our nerves or somewhere! | 05:01 |
LjL | Spec, then we can just, you know, take a bone marrow sample or an autopsy, and run a PCR | 05:01 |
Spec | oh, right | 05:01 |
Spec | i hope we are not so fortunate | 05:01 |
ryouma | asymptomatic cases is not a good thing. it means much more spreading. assumign they can spread. | 05:01 |
tinwhiskers | ynhof[m]: there's always a chance there are some "Typhoid Marys" but they are probably not a significant number because they would likely have shown in the various contact tracing/testing work done to date if there were a lot of them. | 05:01 |
Spec | ryouma: it does lower the lethality rate though | 05:02 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: you think? | 05:02 |
tinwhiskers | I do | 05:02 |
Spec | it sounds reasonable unless there is a flaw in the process | 05:02 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:57 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports 623 new cases, another death: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 05:02 |
ynhof[m] | Well as I mentioned earlier, the infection persisted in the pharynx for over a month (i heard on tv a while back). To me it is not a prepostorous idea | 05:02 |
ynhof[m] | For rare cases in china | 05:02 |
tinwhiskers | more significantly is the mundane presymptomatic and asymptomatic cases. Typhoid Marys (those that persist with the disease and spread it) are unlikely to be common. | 05:03 |
LjL | ryouma, Spec: i think what you're saying is a point that much of current discussion hinges to. on the one hand, if you have more asymptomatic cases, it means the CFR goes down... to which i say, who cares? it's still the same exact number of deaths. BUT then it also mean more immune people (hopefully); however, if that number is still like just 3% of the population, it means 97% are still to get it, and die in the numbers we've seen, except, 97% vs what | 05:03 |
LjL | we've seen being 3% | 05:03 |
davros | yeah iuf the mortatliy is "just" 1.5% instead of 3%, thats still pretty high | 05:04 |
LjL | so how many asymptomatic cases do we need for it to be "a good thing"? | 05:04 |
tinwhiskers | Most significant of all are the presymptomatic cases but they are not nearly as exciting or scary as the asymptomatic cases so people tend to dwell on the latter. | 05:04 |
LjL | honestly i'm not sure, there are two or three things interacting | 05:04 |
davros | ok 3.4% was the mortality with 14-25% assumped asymptomatic | 05:04 |
davros | so if its 50% asymptomatic that reduces mortality to 2% ish ? | 05:05 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, yeah there were indications from China(?) that most of the asymptomatic carriers found later developed symptoms. but this seems at odd with other findings. so i dunno | 05:05 |
davros | can't quite be bothered to calculate it properly but that ballpark | 05:05 |
davros | 2% of the population dieing is still like ww2 | 05:05 |
LjL | davros, it may be more than 50% though. it's just that *i* don't believe it's likely to be much more than 50%. | 05:05 |
LjL | davros, and then there is also, we're talking asymptomatic vs symptomatic; but in most countries, there are VERY symptomatic people who are still deemed "not symptomatic enough" to get their PCR test... and that's a different matter entirely | 05:06 |
LjL | (and then sometimes those die, at home, and don't even get counted) | 05:06 |
LjL | so again there are a few confounding/confusing factors interacting | 05:06 |
davros | yeah and symptomatic people who themselves dont think it's anything more than a normal cold | 05:06 |
davros | sothey dont even bother | 05:07 |
LjL | davros, Italian authorities love to use this word "paucisymptomatic" for those | 05:07 |
LjL | which nobody understands | 05:07 |
LjL | it means "who have few symptoms", literally | 05:07 |
davros | ok | 05:07 |
LjL | god it's late | 05:07 |
ynhof[m] | This is what happens when... | 05:08 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:01 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: federal government will not have access to data from 'voluntary and transparent' tracing app – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB2 | 05:09 |
LjL | yeah sure | 05:10 |
LjL | i bet i won't even have the actual ability to run the "voluntary" app they'll make for us here | 05:10 |
LjL | it's going to require google stuff that i don't have | 05:10 |
tinwhiskers | This article claims that in California the cases are 50-85 times higher than the confirmed cases: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/antibody-testing-reveals-coronavirus-widespread-known-thus-far-less-dangerous-expected/ | 05:10 |
davros | yeah that seems unlikely to me | 05:11 |
tinwhiskers | That seems wildly high, and must have something to do with appalling testing if anything | 05:11 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, yeah, we can't just say "the others are asymptomatic" | 05:11 |
LjL | i'm sure you aren't even saying that | 05:11 |
LjL | but there is some sometimes-subconscious confusion over this i feel | 05:12 |
tinwhiskers | mmm | 05:12 |
ryouma | it all feels like sloppy science. there has to be something systematic done in various places. | 05:12 |
tinwhiskers | I'm not saying that, no. I'm highly suspicious of this claim. | 05:12 |
tinwhiskers | But I posted it because it's the highest claim I've seen to date so is interesting aside from being suspicious | 05:12 |
LjL | we need antibody tests. good ones, that most science agrees with. | 05:13 |
LjL | we'll keep discussing all around this until we have them | 05:13 |
tinwhiskers | yeah | 05:13 |
ryouma | and pcr done widely too | 05:13 |
ryouma | unless that is answered | 05:13 |
tinwhiskers | asymptomatic cases are likely somewhere between 2 times and 50 times :-) | 05:13 |
ryouma | in various compartments | 05:13 |
ryouma | i mean, test all grocery workers in a whole city or something | 05:14 |
tinwhiskers | the few vaguely decent studies done to date suggest 50 times is wildly high unless the testing was just so abysmal as to inflate that figure so high. | 05:14 |
ryouma | various roles are defined, so you eliminate lots of variables | 05:14 |
yuriwho | we will have good validated antibody tests very soon | 05:17 |
Chromanin | %data Lebanon | 05:17 |
Brainstorm | Chromanin: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 668 cases (0.0% of the population) and 21 deaths (3.1% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 19185 tests were performed (3.5% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 18.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data. | 05:17 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: Oh, I see your point. Yes, many (most?) of those supposed 50-85 times could still be presymptomatic, and not asymptomatic. | 05:19 |
tinwhiskers | fwiw this was antibody testing though | 05:20 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, it's just a complex interplay between people who test positive with symptoms, people tho test positive without symptoms, people with symptoms who don't test at all, people without symptoms who don't test at all. it can probably be reduced to a system of equations where we have waaaay fewer than the required stuff to solve | 05:20 |
tinwhiskers | yeah, fair | 05:20 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, well, antibody testing was also used in that German town i think, and... bah now i don't really remember how many more people they found than the "known positives" | 05:21 |
LjL | but also that one was criticized already | 05:21 |
LjL | but what isn't | 05:21 |
LjL | i'll go to sleep | 05:21 |
tinwhiskers | yeah... umm 12 times there I think | 05:21 |
tinwhiskers | gn LJL | 05:22 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, that seems vaguely more plausible than 50ish | 05:22 |
tinwhiskers | yes | 05:22 |
LjL | but the US was late on testing | 05:22 |
tinwhiskers | yes | 05:22 |
tinwhiskers | It's as much a reflection on the quality of testing as potential asymptomatic cases at this stage. We can't really tell the difference between those two. | 05:23 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, good thing we'll soon have TOTALLY VOLUNTARY apps that will ask us about our symptoms in detail on a daily basis before and after we meet other people! | 05:25 |
tinwhiskers | :-) | 05:25 |
tinwhiskers | It's a shame governments are in general so despicably untrustworthy because there would be so much useful info come out of something like that if we could truly trust it to not be used against us. | 05:26 |
tinwhiskers | but it's just so easy for less scrupulous people to de-anonymise such data so this is why we can't have nice things. | 05:27 |
ryouma | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof | 05:27 |
ryouma | i wonder if similar algorithms could be used | 05:27 |
ryouma | with open source | 05:27 |
tinwhiskers | I think the data is inherently de-anonymisable because of the social interactions and locations | 05:28 |
tinwhiskers | even without the locations it would be | 05:28 |
ryouma | i suppose | 05:29 |
tinwhiskers | It sure will be fascinating to see what we get from this data while we can though | 05:29 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:26 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports 623 new cases, another death: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 05:30 |
tinwhiskers | I would sign up for the app but since there are no cases here and nobody else would sign up it might be a bit of a boring data point. | 05:32 |
tinwhiskers | Lonely, I'm soo lonely, I have nobooody, to bluetrace toooo | 05:33 |
ryouma | do you have non-satellite internet? | 05:44 |
ryouma | like, a cable? | 05:44 |
tinwhiskers | ryouma: cellular | 05:56 |
tinwhiskers | there is a tower on a nearby island with a microwave link to the mainland. | 05:57 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:52 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: federal government will not have access to data from 'voluntary and transparent' tracing app – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB2 | 05:58 |
tinwhiskers | obv. I chose this island based on the fact it had decent coverage | 05:58 |
JohnPeter | %cases Antarctica | 06:08 |
Brainstorm | JohnPeter: Sorry, Antarctica not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 06:08 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:05 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports 623 new cases, another death: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 06:12 |
jester | https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/coronavirustracker/ | 06:19 |
jester | https://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily | 06:21 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Texas judge rules all registered voters can vote by mail if they fear catching coronavirus (10491 votes) | https://redd.it/g3ep7r | 06:30 |
ryouma | no i mean tonga in general | 06:32 |
ryouma | there is no mainland near tonga right? | 06:32 |
ryouma | %data sealand | 06:33 |
Brainstorm | ryouma: Sorry, sealand not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 06:33 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:23 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: federal government will not have access to data from 'voluntary and transparent' tracing app – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB2 | 06:33 |
ryouma | %data liechtenstein | 06:33 |
Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Liechtenstein, there are 79 cases (0.2% of the population) and 1 deaths (1.3% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 900 tests were performed (8.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.4% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 1.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Liechtenstein for time series data. | 06:33 |
tinwhiskers | ryouma: oh, right. there is an undersea fibre that links us to australia | 06:38 |
tinwhiskers | one of the best things the King has done for the country really. | 06:38 |
tinwhiskers | It's about 4000km of fibre from Vava'u to Tongatapu to Fiji to somewhere near Canberra. It got "accidentally" cut in three places last year but unfortunately someone had sold of some of the parts for our satellite backup system so we went without internet for nearly two months :-( | 06:44 |
Heresay | were do i sign up for the trip to mars? | 06:48 |
Heresay | https://www.mars-one.com/about-mars-one/vacancy | 06:51 |
Heresay | Medical and Physical Requirements:The applicant must be free from any disease, any dependency on drugs, alcohol or tobacco; | 06:53 |
Heresay | GLWT | 06:53 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 04:49 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Top 20 Countries by Coronavirus Deaths → https://is.gd/MnMsIw | 06:54 |
iz | Heresay: it's just a reality tv show, not a science or space mission | 06:55 |
Heresay | it was a test for this social distancing thing | 06:57 |
iz | heh | 06:58 |
Luzz_ | ?? | 07:01 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:55 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports 623 new cases, another death: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 07:02 |
Heresay | the internet is but a global psycho/social experience | 07:02 |
Heresay | experiment | 07:02 |
adventurer | How reliable do you think Russia's numbers are? | 07:03 |
Heresay | adventurer are you trying to out russian trols? | 07:04 |
adventurer | haha | 07:04 |
adventurer | I am just wondering | 07:04 |
adventurer | i mean they seem to be going not too bad if their numbers are right compared to some other places especially since they are right near China | 07:04 |
Heresay | China is almost covid19 free... so | 07:05 |
tinwhiskers | their numbers are increasing again | 07:06 |
adventurer | having any at all is bad of course | 07:06 |
tinwhiskers | China, that is | 07:06 |
adventurer | yeah their curve doesn't look good | 07:06 |
adventurer | but their numbers are lower than some other places. hopefully they can stop it growing | 07:06 |
adventurer | I meant Russia... | 07:08 |
adventurer | oh China had a big increase in death update/correction the other day | 07:08 |
Heresay | thats lo | 07:09 |
Heresay | old cases | 07:09 |
Heresay | https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52301633 | 07:10 |
Heresay | Dr Alison Pittard, Dean of the Faculty of Intensive Care Medicine, says it can take 12 to 18 months to get back to normal after any spell in critical care. | 07:10 |
Heresay | "We do know patients take a considerable period, potentially months, to recover." | 07:12 |
adventurer | oh that is not good | 07:12 |
tinwhiskers | adventurer: oh, yeah, I wasn't referring to the recent correction. I mean general cases are rising again. | 07:15 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:08 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 07:16 |
adventurer | oh that's no good | 07:16 |
Heresay | https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/south-korea-coronavirus-retesting-positive-intl-hnk/index.html | 07:18 |
Heresay | Recovered coronavirus patients are testing positive again. Can you get re-infected? | 07:18 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany reports more than 3,600 new cases, 242 more deaths → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 07:23 |
derpadmin | Trump will be trumping | 07:27 |
derpadmin | not good indeed | 07:28 |
adventurer | he needs to stop Trumping | 07:29 |
derpadmin | definitely | 07:29 |
euod[m] | the US is uh, not doing well with this. | 07:30 |
euod[m] | there's a pandemic and the president is encouraging people to "liberate" states. like what the fuck is going on. | 07:30 |
derpadmin | I feel bad for the american people | 07:32 |
euod[m] | a good portion of them seem brainless enough to just follow along. | 07:36 |
euod[m] | it's a pandemic, why are you running around in groups waving automatic weapons and screaming about your rights as an american. | 07:36 |
PlanckWalk | "Eating detergent pods is bad for your health" => People eating detergent | 07:39 |
PlanckWalk | "Don't tell me what to do!" | 07:40 |
ecrockz123 | Is trump looking to reduce the population in usa | 07:42 |
PlanckWalk | No, but if that's a side effect, then ehh | 07:43 |
ecrockz123 | Population is biggest cause for climate change too | 07:44 |
PlanckWalk | It's not likely that he'd care much | 07:44 |
Heresay | he cares or climate change he is in favour of it | 07:46 |
Heresay | ny id too cold | 07:46 |
Heresay | ny is too cold | 07:46 |
Heresay | florida weather would suit nyc better | 07:47 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:40 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: first death associated with cluster at NSW nursing home – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB2 | 07:51 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:55 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany reports more than 3,600 new cases, 242 more deaths → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 07:58 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:58 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 08:05 |
jacklsw | under control? | 08:14 |
tinwhiskers | it's a bit of a stretch for Germany to claim control yet imo; if you compare to something like Australia or NZ, for example. | 08:16 |
tinwhiskers | those countries really are flattening their curves. Germany is barely linear. | 08:17 |
jacklsw | still there are deaths | 08:23 |
jacklsw | just that they are the most controllable around europe region | 08:23 |
tinwhiskers | The most deadly day NZ has had was 4 people dying, followed by two days at 2 deaths. | 08:27 |
tinwhiskers | Germany looked good early on though but NZ is way ahead now. NZ is now aiming at eradication of the virus. | 08:28 |
tinwhiskers | NZ new cases today: 18. Germany new cases today: 754 | 08:30 |
tinwhiskers | NZ 0.27 per 100,000 population, Germany 4.43 per 100,000 | 08:31 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany reports more than 3,600 new cases, 242 more deaths → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 08:33 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:41 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: first death associated with cluster at NSW nursing home – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB2 | 08:47 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 06:48 UTC: Coronavirus: Double warning over antibody tests: Experts say screening may not prove immunity from coronavirus, and Britons are warned over unproven tests. → https://is.gd/kxSN2x | 08:55 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:54 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: first death associated with cluster at NSW nursing home – latest news → https://is.gd/xI7EB2 | 09:09 |
bn_mobile | You guys hear about Wuhan revising their death toll by +50%? | 09:15 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:30 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 09:37 |
tinwhiskers | bn_mobile: yep | 09:40 |
tinwhiskers | it's showing in the stats | 09:40 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:37 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore 'preliminarily' confirms another 942 cases: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 09:44 |
bn_mobile | tinwhiskers: is it a revision in the reporting methodology or previously undisclosed data? | 09:48 |
tinwhiskers | bn_mobile: it's just a stepwise correction starting from today/yesterday | 09:49 |
tinwhiskers | oh | 09:49 |
tinwhiskers | undisclosed data I think | 09:49 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:43 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 09:51 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:00 UTC: Food & drink industry: Meat and vegetable vending machines do roaring trade in coronavirus crisis → https://is.gd/CNeQ3j | 10:05 |
aradesh | the offloop site has been slow lately... | 10:18 |
steeltormentor[m | Hi guys, anyone here keeping track of which countries are/were using the Herd Immunity method to deal with the covid19 situation? | 10:18 |
aradesh | another >3k deaths for USA yesterday | 10:18 |
aradesh | steeltormentor[m: i'm not sure. i think it's kind of hard because even though countries haven't really enforced stuff, you get people choosing to lockdown anyway, or companies deciding to have their staff work from home, etc | 10:19 |
aradesh | like sweden | 10:19 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:15 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore 'preliminarily' confirms another 942 cases: This week, the Southeast Asian country reported a jump in its number of infections, marking a shift from its relatively low numbers earlier in the outbreak. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 10:19 |
aradesh | the impression i get from sweden is that there is no official lockdown, but a lot of people and companies are acting as if there is | 10:20 |
aradesh | then there was the UK who started off with herd immunity as their plan, and then immediately bailed | 10:20 |
aradesh | after basically wasting a week | 10:21 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:26 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Questa Sera alle 1:45 del mattino ci sarà il concerto organizzato dal OMS 'One World Together At Home' → https://is.gd/w5sFth | 10:26 |
tinwhiskers | aradesh: yeah, I'm aware of the slowness on offloop and how to resolve it but I've just been very unmotivated today. | 10:30 |
aradesh | tinwhiskers: do you run it? | 10:33 |
aradesh | i did not know | 10:33 |
genera | aradesh, some newspapers write, the news of Swedens No Lockdown was fake news | 10:33 |
tinwhiskers | aradesh: yeah | 10:34 |
tinwhiskers | I'll probably fix it tomorrow. I'm going to add another graph on test numbers as well. | 10:35 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:38 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Anticorpi → https://is.gd/OEdIFl | 10:41 |
yuri[m] | No lockdown in Sweden is real and it's interesting to note that a) Sweden is at the same level or *below* countries like UK when it comes to infections and deaths per million and b) Sweden is far above neighbouring countries (Denmark/Finland/Norway) when it comes to deaths and infections. | 10:43 |
yuri[m] | genera: Which newspaper would be saying that Sweden has any kind of lockdown? | 10:44 |
genera | saw that yesterday | 10:44 |
genera | https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Hat-Schweden-am-Ende-recht-gehabt-article21716911.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab | 10:45 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia cases jump by 4,785; Singapore 'preliminarily' confirms another 942 cases → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 10:48 |
JohnPeter | !corona Antarctica | 10:51 |
CoronaBot | ,01[ERR] Country/state not found! | 10:52 |
steeltormentor[m | yuri: yep it has been discussed here before about the dangers of such method. Now I'm curious which countries are still using it. | 11:04 |
steeltormentor[m | Interested to run a statistical test if I could get the name of the countries. | 11:04 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:59 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 11:09 |
mefistofeles | steeltormentor[m: which method exactly? | 11:27 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia cases jump by 4,785; Singapore 'preliminarily' confirms another 942 cases → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 11:30 |
steeltormentor[m | mefistofeles: Herd Immunity / does not enforce a lockdown. Like Sweden and UK initial plan. | 11:32 |
mefistofeles | steeltormentor[m: the herd immunity was something pushed by the media, I don't think UK was going for that in any case | 11:33 |
mefistofeles | steeltormentor[m: and "lockdown" means different things for different countries, so we need to be very specific | 11:33 |
mefistofeles | steeltormentor[m: what's Sweden doing? | 11:33 |
mefistofeles | ah ok, I see the restaurants and bars still open, there, apparently | 11:35 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:34 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia reports spike in cases; Taiwan to quarantine 700 navy sailors: Russia reported another 4,785 cases and 40 deaths, Reuters reported. That brings the country's total to 36,793 cases and 313 deaths, according to the report. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 11:37 |
ynhof[m] | %data new zealand | 11:39 |
Brainstorm | ynhof[m]: In all areas, New Zealand, there are 1422 cases (0.0% of the population) and 11 deaths (0.8% of cases) as of 4 minutes ago. 79078 tests were performed (1.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 1.3% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20Zealand for time series data. | 11:39 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:51 UTC: UK coronavirus live: doctors confirm lack of PPE amid fears supplies may run out this weekend: Surveys reveal medics’ concerns about pressures to work without protection. Follow this and all the day’s developments in the UK’s Covid-19 crisis → https://is.gd/qv8SCx | 11:59 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:01 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Wuhan → https://is.gd/n8uv08 | 12:06 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:07 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia reports spike in cases; Taiwan to quarantine 700 navy sailors: Russia reported another 4,785 cases and 40 deaths, Reuters reported. That brings the country's total to 36,793 cases and 313 deaths, according to the report. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 12:13 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Six People Die From Coronavirus After Attending Same Funeral In South Carolina (10007 votes) | https://redd.it/g39aj1 | 12:14 |
Biep[m] | !cases world | 12:15 |
CovBot | In World there have been a total of 2,263,507 cases as of 2020-04-18 10:01:00 UTC. Of these 1,529,896 (67.6%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 578,832 (25.6%) have definitely recovered and 154,779 (6.8%) have died. | 12:15 |
Biep[m] | !compare world;Sweden;US | 12:17 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:21 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 12:27 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 10:24 UTC: CoronavirusUK: British public: “We love the NHS!” *elects Conservatives for the 4th consecutive time* → https://is.gd/czB8EA | 12:41 |
hat423334 | yeh | 12:44 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:39 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia reports spike in cases; Taiwan to quarantine 700 navy sailors: Russia reported another 4,785 cases and 40 deaths, Reuters reported. That brings the country's total to 36,793 cases and 313 deaths, according to the report. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 12:48 |
PlanckWalk | Heh, the estimates in https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.13.20064519v1 have not proved very accurate. | 12:48 |
PlanckWalk | Not surprising given the numerous flaws. | 12:49 |
mefistofeles | indeed | 12:49 |
tinwhiskers | Interesting: Across the United States we estimate as of 6 April 2020 the fraction of the population infected was 4.8% [3.2%, 8.0%], 39 times the portion of the population with a positive test result. | 12:51 |
tinwhiskers | Although that estimate was based on the European data so doesn't really add anything in that regard. | 12:53 |
PlanckWalk | All the parameters in their model were estimated from pretty skimpy data | 12:53 |
PlanckWalk | Especially the post-lockdown reproduction rate, which they assume to be constant across every population. | 12:54 |
tinwhiskers | Mmm | 12:54 |
PlanckWalk | (and within every population) | 12:55 |
PlanckWalk | Using their supplied model I determined that China now has 6 billion infections. | 12:55 |
ynhof[m] | I need to say something hear that none of you will understand. | 12:55 |
ynhof[m] | Dear firstfloor (2), please stop. | 12:55 |
tinwhiskers | PlanckWalk: lol | 12:56 |
mefistofeles | PlanckWalk: sounds about right | 12:57 |
PlanckWalk | They estimated that lockdown can't possibly reduce reporoduction rate below 1 | 12:58 |
adventurer | who did PlanckWalk | 12:59 |
PlanckWalk | The authors of the study I linked above | 12:59 |
tinwhiskers | I see. That should have rung some alarm bells considering it has dropped R(eff) below 1 in some places. | 12:59 |
PlanckWalk | Yes, you'd think that they would have done some sanity checking | 13:00 |
tinwhiskers | Midnight... Bed. Gn | 13:01 |
PlanckWalk | But then, it looks like they estimated it by fitting an Reff to 2 days of Italian data. | 13:01 |
ynhof[m] | Where? Night night | 13:01 |
PlanckWalk | (and nothing else) | 13:01 |
ynhof[m] | Whiskers you forgot to set your clock back | 13:02 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:52 UTC: UK coronavirus live: doctors confirm lack of PPE amid fears supplies may run out this weekend: Surveys reveal medics’ concerns about pressures to work without protection. Follow this and all the day’s developments in the UK’s Covid-19 crisis → https://is.gd/qv8SCx | 13:02 |
PlanckWalk | I like making predictive models as much as anyone, but I recognise that we don't have halfway reliable data on Reff for most places. | 13:04 |
PlanckWalk | And they're not going to be even similar across populations. | 13:05 |
PlanckWalk | That's going to give ridiculously wide bounds when projecting 3 weeks into the future. | 13:07 |
PlanckWalk | e.g. estimating current infections from recent deaths | 13:08 |
jacklsw | night? should be australia | 13:14 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:04 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/sYQG2q | 13:16 |
piston | !corona Asia | 13:18 |
CoronaBot | Asia: Global rank: #-, cases: 362,587 (+4,403), fatalities: 14,197 (+131), active cases: 175,443, total recovered: 172,947, in a serious condition: 6,352. Mortality: 3.92%, case fatality rate: 7.59%, cases/1M: -, deaths/1M: -. | 13:18 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:23 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA - Florida → https://is.gd/64IK7K | 13:23 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:27 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia reports spike in cases; Taiwan to quarantine 700 navy sailors: Russia reported another 4,785 cases and 40 deaths, Reuters reported. That brings the country's total to 36,793 cases and 313 deaths, according to the report. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 13:30 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:41 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump backs anti-lockdown protests as global deaths pass 150,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 13:45 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:01 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia reports spike in cases; Taiwan to quarantine 700 navy sailors: Russia reported another 4,785 cases and 40 deaths, Reuters reported. That brings the country's total to 36,793 cases and 313 deaths, according to the report. → https://is.gd/xpK8YI | 14:06 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:10 UTC: UK coronavirus live: NHS frontline staff may walk out over lack of PPE, says union: Surveys reveal medics’ concerns about pressures to work without protection. Follow this and all the day’s developments in the UK’s Covid-19 crisis → https://is.gd/qv8SCx | 14:20 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:31 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna → https://is.gd/8UUY6Q | 14:34 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:38 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Scienza - USA → https://is.gd/ZuV5oa | 14:41 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:42 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/Go2Mja | 14:48 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 12:56 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers → https://is.gd/Y0fUeJ | 15:02 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Nations debate easing lockdown, Swiss death toll tops 1,100 → https://is.gd/acat85 | 15:09 |
_abc_ | Hunan u. study shows corona can infect these animals too: "Those on danger list include cats, cows, goats, pigs, sheep, buffalo and pigeons" | 15:15 |
_abc_ | I do not like PIGEONS. They are city rats with wings, flying in your face on the street hoping for a morsel. | 15:15 |
_abc_ | They are everywhere and literally poop on everyone and everything. We have normal rats, and 2 kinds of rats with wings in this city, piegons and seagulls. The pigeons far outnumber the gulls. | 15:16 |
AimHere | Even in towns with lots of pigeons, I suspect pigeon->human contact is rather rare | 15:21 |
AimHere | I'm sure you'll just have to use whatever excuses you previously had if you want to start a cull | 15:21 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:22 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Olimpiadi → https://is.gd/ZBCqUb | 15:23 |
xrogaan | Pigeons don't touch you directly, they usually get you by landing guano on your head. | 15:24 |
bn_mobile | What the heck, now NYC is not even confirming cause of death?? http://www.wcsjnews.com/news/national/coronavirus-updates-china-increases-wuhan-death-toll-by-50/article_87029390-6a91-5943-b581-7243e8fe633f.html | 15:25 |
mefistofeles | also, do we know if these animals actually show any symptoms at all? | 15:25 |
mefistofeles | or if they are even dying from it? | 15:25 |
AimHere | IIRC, tigers and cats do get ill from it | 15:25 |
mefistofeles | bn_mobile: 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons | 15:26 |
mefistofeles | sounds like a bad news agency | 15:26 |
bn_mobile | mefistofeles: weird, works over here? | 15:26 |
mefistofeles | bn_mobile: yes, doesn't work for Europeands /GDPR countries | 15:26 |
mefistofeles | *Europeans | 15:27 |
mefistofeles | AimHere: ok | 15:27 |
farn | Europeanos | 15:27 |
bn_mobile | mefistofeles: probably licensing restrictions perhaps? | 15:27 |
mefistofeles | bn_mobile: not licensing, but the way they handle your data | 15:27 |
mefistofeles | cookies, browser data, etc. | 15:28 |
bn_mobile | mefistofeles: is there now a specific HTTP error code & software check for GDPR? | 15:28 |
mefistofeles | the way they do it is against european data protection laws, apparently | 15:28 |
mefistofeles | bn_mobile: well, I don't know if 451 HTTP code is standard for this, tbh | 15:29 |
_abc_ | AimHere: re: pigeon human contact: they fly within 30cm of your face here and land in front of you, and poop everywhere, people step in the poop and lift the dried dust as aerosols. | 15:29 |
_abc_ | AimHere: bird pooped on me in the beginning of February, was nasty in despite of wearing rain gear. This is how you get zoonosis. Does not have to be covid. | 15:30 |
_abc_ | AimHere: because cretin people feed them they come in droves and expect everyone to feed them, getting very close. | 15:30 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:27 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Stocks rally on hopes for a breakthrough, nations debate easing lockdown → https://is.gd/acat85 | 15:31 |
_abc_ | Surely a nature and animal lover would understand that a city is human territory, NOT animal territory. | 15:31 |
Hoffman | lol this guy got pooped on | 15:31 |
Hoffman | lol | 15:31 |
bn_mobile | mefistofeles: right, so it's just speculation then (not that I'm defending them). I mean a lot of streaming services disallow viewers from other countries due to licensing restrictions. | 15:31 |
Hoffman | its animal territory temporarily occupied by humans | 15:31 |
_abc_ | It brings luck. To yourself or to your heirs. | 15:31 |
_abc_ | Hoffman: I refuse that explanation, that is an extremist explanation. | 15:31 |
mefistofeles | bn_mobile: oh, no, they specifically say it's because of violations of GDPR | 15:32 |
mefistofeles | bn_mobile: " | 15:32 |
mefistofeles | We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. " | 15:32 |
bn_mobile | I'm a bit bitter at GDPR because it's made our work JIRA a pita to use now (& we have no presence in the EU) | 15:33 |
_abc_ | mefistofeles: translated: they use and sell visitor data to the highest bidder. You can't do that to GDPR protected people | 15:33 |
_abc_ | JIRA? | 15:33 |
_abc_ | Yes GDPR does add some work for webmasters. | 15:33 |
_abc_ | Also there is no easy way to enforce GDPR without javascript only sites. | 15:33 |
bn_mobile | mefistofeles: ah, ok then it's GDPR then, I'm sorry | 15:34 |
mefistofeles | _abc_: yes, basically | 15:35 |
Hoffman | _abc_: I reject your characterization of the viewpoint as extremist | 15:35 |
Hoffman | characterization: denied | 15:35 |
Hoffman | my explanation is statistically the most correct, as the land has had 0 humans on it for most of its existence | 15:36 |
Hoffman | thus making it not human territory | 15:36 |
bn_mobile | _abc_: yes, Atlassian JIRA. I now have to refer to colleagues by some GUID # VS a sane name, lol, ridiculous | 15:36 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:29 UTC: Coronavirus US live: widespread concern amid growing protests against stay home orders: Thousands backed by rightwing donors gear up for protests Operation reopen America: are we about to witness a second historic failure of leadership from Trump? Live global updates → https://is.gd/C1mIp9 | 15:38 |
_abc_ | Hoffman: you can reject whatever you want, once you're an extremist you are one for life. That's how "permanent information storage" works. | 15:38 |
_abc_ | Statistics have nothing to do with it. Statistically, there would have been 0 to 10 pigeons per square area unit in this location. Now there are 1000 to 10000. Guess what the food source is? | 15:39 |
_abc_ | I have no problem returning the density of birds to normal. Tomorrow morning, if necessary due to virus spreading. | 15:40 |
_abc_ | The powers that be should do themselves a favor and test some city pigeons, especially where covid cases are abundant and no direct transmission ways are in view. Italy probably. | 15:40 |
_abc_ | Then it gets complex because the pigeon version of covid is likely a bit different and may not trigger the tests they use now. | 15:41 |
_abc_ | And I am really worried about chickens getting into this circle f* | 15:41 |
_abc_ | They said the tiger in that zoo got covid from an asymptomatic carer but it is far more likely he got it from a pigeon he caught and ate imo. | 15:42 |
Hoffman | you sure do have a lot of opinions | 15:42 |
_abc_ | I have a few, yes. | 15:43 |
bn_mobile | mefistofeles: here we go, alternate source: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/08/829506542/after-deaths-at-home-in-nyc-officials-plan-to-count-many-as-covid-19 | 15:43 |
Hoffman | are you sure this isn't just some "Moby Dick" situation where you're trying to starve city pidgeons to get revenge on the one that pooped on you | 15:44 |
Hoffman | relentlessly hunting your white pidgeon | 15:44 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:43 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito → https://is.gd/ytK1rB | 15:45 |
bn_mobile | Hoffman: lol | 15:45 |
_abc_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMI7922eigo | 15:46 |
_abc_ | Hoffman: piss off | 15:46 |
mefistofeles | %t | 15:46 |
Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.youtube.com: Pigeons and Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Pigeon Health Episode #8 - YouTube | 15:46 |
Hoffman | holy crap theres like an entire pidgeon vlogger subculture | 15:48 |
bn_mobile | sigh... An American fb acquaintance forwarded me a video advocating civil disobedience, lol | 15:48 |
nilesh | the uk is a mess, as someone on the front line - the general public are not understanding self isolation because it is not being enforced | 15:48 |
_abc_ | The vlog that guy made predates the Hunan U. study. So he is wrong about covid 19 not infecting pigeons probably. | 15:49 |
nilesh | now the hospitals are running out of ppe | 15:49 |
_abc_ | Seriously, how daft can people be not to start MANUFACTURING masks and ppe locally? | 15:50 |
Hoffman | gotta have the right materials | 15:50 |
_abc_ | Is it that expensive? No. Maybe they need to import slave labor? | 15:50 |
Hoffman | n95 masks are just cut & molded n95 fiber sheets | 15:50 |
_abc_ | Yes one imports the materials and the machine and they machines make 100 masks / minute each. | 15:50 |
bn_mobile | I don't even know how to respond to her, so many things wrong with that video | 15:51 |
Hoffman | the materials are as in demand as the masks unfortunately | 15:51 |
_abc_ | Yes but at government level the BA flights which brought 3-4 million masks this morning to UK could have brought the machines and the materials for 30-40 million masks instead | 15:51 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:45 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Veneto → https://is.gd/36bRu6 | 15:52 |
Hoffman | I hope they are in the process of making more machines to make more fiber | 15:52 |
bn_mobile | There are also washing/sanitization processes, but some hospitals are more wasteful in their usage VS others | 15:52 |
Hoffman | hopefully they finish scaling up manufacturing before it's no longer necessary | 15:52 |
bn_mobile | s/processes/processes for PPE/ | 15:52 |
Hoffman | yes, one of the 3 machines in the country that sanitizes disposable n95 respirators is here | 15:53 |
bn_mobile | Here? | 15:54 |
Hoffman | Boston | 15:54 |
_abc_ | Hoffman: there's a yt video in the factory which makes the magic filter layer for N95 masks and they said one ton of the filter fabric makes 700,000 masks | 15:57 |
Hoffman | cool | 15:58 |
_abc_ | It's not very complex to make and not slow either apparently. | 15:58 |
Hoffman | probably not | 15:58 |
Hoffman | just need to build the right equipment | 15:58 |
Hoffman | which actually does it | 15:58 |
_abc_ | Yes it is. I know about these things more than a little. | 15:58 |
Hoffman | lol | 15:58 |
Hoffman | "its not very complex" | 15:58 |
Hoffman | "probably not" | 15:58 |
Hoffman | "yes it is" | 15:58 |
_abc_ | It's not complex in the context of engineered fibers / materials made now | 15:59 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:58 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Conte convoca capi delegazione poi cabina di regia. Allo studio bonus per famiglie con figli - Politica - ANSA → https://is.gd/kuro6J | 15:59 |
_abc_ | https://groups.oist.jp/nnp/diy-face-mask Hoffman any cotton candy machines you could borrow in Boston? | 16:00 |
Hoffman | make up your mind | 16:00 |
Hoffman | nice | 16:01 |
Hoffman | I would agree with you that it is not that complex, given that you have the requirement equipment built and tooled | 16:01 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:00 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US accused of 'dereliction of duty' as deaths in Spain top 20,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 16:06 |
bn_mobile | Okinawa sounds like a nice place to be now during the spring 😌🏝🌌 | 16:07 |
bn_mobile | So China reopens while rest of world is still reacting & panicking, hmm 🤔 | 16:08 |
_abc_ | Hoffman: or buy it. Again, this is about money. Masks have gone from $1-2 a piece to $39 each and there is STILL no-one in the "West" picking up the opportunity to start a factory, even though this virus crazy has it's end nowhere in sight. A minimum of one to two years are periods quoted. | 16:09 |
mefistofeles | bn_mobile: not the rest of the world | 16:09 |
_abc_ | Hoffman: I'm in Eastern Europe and here there are factories repurposed for mask and PPE making. | 16:10 |
_abc_ | Hoffman: we are still a manufacturing country with little or no external labor imported. | 16:10 |
_abc_ | I suppose Boston where once upon a time lots of factories smoked up the sky is now "too advanced" to be able to set up a fiber cloth and a mask assembly factory. | 16:11 |
_abc_ | Or two or five. | 16:11 |
bn_mobile | _abc_: start one, become the savior of the Britons! | 16:11 |
_abc_ | I think even 3M who said they doubled their mask production are manufacturing in China and flying the product "home". Crazy! | 16:11 |
_abc_ | bn_mobile: I'm in Eastern Europe, not UK | 16:11 |
bn_mobile | Oh, my bad | 16:11 |
_abc_ | Also one flight of vegetable pickers flew from here to UK today/yersterday. | 16:12 |
_abc_ | They are unable to find people to pick their vegs off the fields, are crying that famine is coming. Even a famished brit would not bend down to pick veggies out the of ground. This is all ALL about money. | 16:12 |
Hoffman | almost as if being a brutal authoritarian regime lets you get stuff done faster, hmm | 16:13 |
Hoffman | they dont got nobody on beaches today | 16:13 |
Hoffman | disregarding stay at home orders because they gotta get that gram | 16:13 |
_abc_ | gram? | 16:13 |
bn_mobile | mefistofeles: you don't think the rest of the world is still reacting? PS: I'm not passing judgment , I was just saying it seemed suspicious China was re-opening first 🙂 | 16:14 |
Hoffman | _abc_: I am glad that we are already doing the idea you raised | 16:14 |
Hoffman | which is, looking into scaling up mask production | 16:14 |
Hoffman | I agree it is important | 16:14 |
bn_mobile | Does the UK import all its food now? | 16:15 |
mefistofeles | bn_mobile: well China was the one getting hit first and one of the first stopping the spread, why wouldn't it be re-opening first? (though, it's not really the first, imho) | 16:16 |
_abc_ | Hoffman: you are scaling up *China's* mask production, not your own afaik. | 16:19 |
_abc_ | The 3M factores are in China. | 16:19 |
_abc_ | bn_mobile: no it does not import all of it but it has pretty much zero local agricultural work force afaik. Brits refuse to work with their hands in the dirt. Eastern Europeans go there twice per annum or more frequenlty and pick the harvest etc. | 16:20 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:14 UTC: Coronavirus US live: widespread concern amid growing protests against stay home orders: Thousands backed by rightwing donors gear up for protests Operation reopen America: are we about to witness a second historic failure of leadership from Trump? Live global updates → https://is.gd/C1mIp9 | 16:20 |
_abc_ | *35.6 axilar | 16:25 |
bn_mobile | mefistofeles: who is first, "USA#1"? 😂 | 16:27 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Stocks rally on hopes for a breakthrough, nations debate easing lockdown → https://is.gd/acat85 | 16:27 |
Hoffman | _abc_: then that thing | 16:27 |
bn_mobile | _abc_: unfortunately lots of "1st world" countries are becoming like that… especially ones that don't have much land to begin with | 16:27 |
_abc_ | Yes looks like USA is again #1 in something they really don't want to be #1 | 16:27 |
_abc_ | Winning a contest which you want to win by not winning. | 16:28 |
mefistofeles | bn_mobile: haha, most likely last :P | 16:31 |
mefistofeles | bn_mobile: first can be Korea (I think it never closed?) or Denmark or Austria | 16:31 |
mefistofeles | or Iceland | 16:31 |
bn_mobile | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6DGNZnfKYnU | 16:34 |
MinceR | America First! | 16:34 |
bn_mobile | Make ARMerica grate again! | 16:35 |
mefistofeles | %t | 16:36 |
Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From m.youtube.com: WarGames - "The Only Winning Move" - YouTube | 16:36 |
Hoffman | 13,12𝓖𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓽 𝓙𝓸𝓫! | 16:36 |
bn_mobile | Oh no, Mario box "?" marks we meet again 😂 | 16:37 |
Hoffman | bn_mobile: uni-d to unicode up ur box | 16:39 |
bn_mobile | What did that say?🤔 Old iPhone here 😔 | 16:40 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:39 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Gucci plans to reopen one of its Italian sites, Britain mulls new financial aid → https://is.gd/acat85 | 16:41 |
Hoffman | bn_mobile: it said, Great Job! | 16:44 |
Hoffman | in cursive | 16:44 |
Hoffman | in pink on blue | 16:44 |
MinceR | just hit the "?" boxes to see if mushrooms come out :> | 16:44 |
Hoffman | a la T&EAS:GJ | 16:44 |
MinceR | with your head | 16:44 |
bn_mobile | Lol, because people really need to buy luxury goods now? | 16:45 |
bn_mobile | MinceR: technically I think it's his fist, but yeah :) | 16:46 |
LjL | let's keep colors and stuff like that to a minimium please... i keep it enabled for a bit of bold and italics when it benefits the bots but it's a short leap to rainbows, that many on IRC will object to... | 16:46 |
bn_mobile | Hey LjL | 16:46 |
LjL | hey | 16:46 |
bn_mobile | How goes it over there? | 16:46 |
MinceR | :) | 16:48 |
bn_mobile | s/encoded/are encoded/ | 16:48 |
MinceR | ctrl+C followed by a number, optionally a comma + another number | 16:49 |
bn_mobile | Is it just ANSI escape sequences? | 16:49 |
MinceR | well, this is something they usually blame mIRC for | 16:49 |
MinceR | you can send ANSI escape sequences, but i'm not sure what clients will show them correctly | 16:49 |
MinceR | ctrl+C is ASCII code 3 | 16:50 |
mefistofeles | I know this is risky, and hope it doesn't feed the trolls, but I'm gonna leave this here https://project-evidence.github.io/ | 16:50 |
mefistofeles | there are indeed some coincidences that may deserve further study | 16:50 |
zROB | indeed | 16:53 |
LjL | mefistofeles, haven't downloaded, but the web page itself sounds like reasonable premises | 17:01 |
LjL | if you consider a leak from a lab believable... which i still do | 17:01 |
mefistofeles | LjL: yes | 17:02 |
mefistofeles | it's possible | 17:02 |
mefistofeles | I mean, I think it is | 17:02 |
iz | it's a bit like science warning a big earthquake is bound to happen soon and then when a quake happens thinking it's believable a weather control machine did it | 17:07 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:01 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US accused of 'dereliction of duty' as deaths in Spain top 20,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 17:10 |
linext | a guy tried to sneak into a supermarket without a face mask by pulling his t-shirt over his nose | 17:10 |
linext | the bouncer at the door told him to leave | 17:10 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: how much does that piss you off ^^ | 17:11 |
Spec | 'US accused of <...> as deaths in spain... | 17:11 |
iz | should have pulled his tshirt over the back of his head and explained to the bouncer that he needed tp for his bunghole | 17:11 |
linext | he probably needs tp given the shortage | 17:12 |
linext | there wasn't any in the store | 17:12 |
linext | here's what NJ USA looks like: https://www.state.nj.us/health/cd/topics/covid2019_dashboard.shtml | 17:13 |
Spec | ooo, we'll hit a million in just over a week | 17:14 |
MinceR | :) | 17:15 |
Hoffman | its ok | 17:16 |
Hoffman | we're reopening the economy again | 17:16 |
Hoffman | starting today | 17:16 |
Hoffman | anyone who dies is a hero but dont expect any sort of compensation | 17:16 |
Hoffman | that would be selfish and materialistic. | 17:16 |
linext | Hoffman, https://jobs.covid19.nj.gov/ | 17:16 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Michigan Gov: ‘Better To Be Six Feet Apart Right Now Than Six Feet Under’ (10018 votes) | https://redd.it/g3ii82 | 17:16 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:14 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Scienza → https://is.gd/NIcxhb | 17:17 |
linext | new jobs for $11/hour and up. however, if you get sick and need to go to the hospital, it's several thousand $ | 17:17 |
Spec | nice | 17:19 |
Hoffman | linext: sad | 17:19 |
Spec | exploiting the desperate is a time honored tradition | 17:19 |
Spec | do these jerbs come with healthcares? | 17:20 |
blackntan | linext: yeah, i think that governments should just pay people not to work at all | 17:20 |
linext | blackntan, i think they should give them health care for corona-related illness if they get it | 17:20 |
blackntan | linext: nah, just pay them ... no work required | 17:21 |
linext | $11/hour for a month or so is only about $1000 | 17:21 |
linext | i saw an article about a guy who was in the ICU for 2 weeks | 17:21 |
linext | the hospital bill was $100,000 | 17:21 |
blackntan | linext: you think he'll pay that? | 17:22 |
linext | eventually | 17:22 |
blackntan | no | 17:22 |
blackntan | it'll get written off | 17:22 |
bigfluff | can't get blood from a turnip, if he doesn't have money and doesn't have insurance...it'll get written off | 17:22 |
blackntan | that's why the US healthcare system is so expensive | 17:22 |
linext | charity-care tries to recover funds if you get money | 17:22 |
blackntan | someone has to pay | 17:22 |
blackntan | but not everyone | 17:22 |
linext | it will likely go to collections agencies | 17:23 |
blackntan | and get written off | 17:23 |
blackntan | and won't effect your credit | 17:23 |
blackntan | because it's medicalk | 17:23 |
linext | if the guy is poor for the rest of his life, he won't pay | 17:23 |
blackntan | he won't pay either way | 17:23 |
blackntan | it's up to him/her | 17:23 |
bigfluff | blackntan: i think medical bills have "less" effect on credit, but it's still something | 17:23 |
linext | anyone can choose to not pay their bills | 17:23 |
blackntan | bigfluff: nothing | 17:23 |
blackntan | linext: that is true | 17:24 |
bigfluff | blackntan: tmyn | 17:24 |
blackntan | but medical doesn't kill your credit | 17:24 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:15 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, Gucci to reopen one of its Italian sites → https://is.gd/acat85 | 17:24 |
blackntan | so, once again, thank god you're us citizens with amazing healthcare | 17:24 |
blackntan | that you don't have to pay if you don't want to | 17:24 |
blackntan | sure elective surgeries are a pita | 17:25 |
blackntan | and cancer (which i have) | 17:25 |
blackntan | is a pain in the ass | 17:25 |
linext | my health insurance is not linked to any workplace | 17:25 |
blackntan | but the medical facilities are fucking amazing | 17:25 |
linext | i pay as an individual | 17:25 |
linext | my deductible is around $6,000 and a $500/month premium | 17:26 |
linext | getting a temp job just isn't worth the risk financially, even with insurance | 17:26 |
blackntan | so as long as you're healthy or wealthy, you've got it covered | 17:26 |
bigfluff | i administer our group health plan at the office, and we're nutting out something like $10k a month for 20 heads...crazy stuff | 17:26 |
blackntan | if not, then you can't pay | 17:26 |
blackntan | but you still get the services | 17:26 |
blackntan | bigfluff: yeah, the industry is nuts | 17:27 |
blackntan | healthcare prices are SOOOO high | 17:27 |
blackntan | but it's the way it plays out due to insurance/lawsuits/etc | 17:27 |
linext | some how landscapers and housekeepers got added to essential workforce | 17:27 |
bigfluff | i hear the guys cough and i yell at them "we just wrote a check so you can get that looked at!", yet nobody seems to take advantage of it | 17:27 |
blackntan | i live in ireland now ... i was AMAZED i could go the gp and just pay him/her €50 | 17:27 |
blackntan | or get prescriptions for 10s of euros instead of 100s | 17:28 |
blackntan | but try to get into a hospital here | 17:28 |
blackntan | you can't | 17:28 |
blackntan | public healthcare at it's best | 17:28 |
blackntan | on a NORMAL day there are NO BEDS | 17:28 |
linext | blackntan, does ireland have the same health system that's for britain? | 17:28 |
blackntan | now with corona facilities are freakin' out | 17:28 |
blackntan | linext: similar | 17:29 |
blackntan | i went to the A&E (emergency room) last year | 17:29 |
blackntan | people on gurnies everywhere ... just a normal friday ... | 17:29 |
blackntan | fuckin' nuts | 17:29 |
blackntan | no rooms | 17:29 |
bigfluff | i've seen that in some spots in the us, too | 17:30 |
blackntan | gotta run ... wife started a fire pit ... :-) time for a glass of wine (it's 1630 here ... that's late enough ;-) | 17:31 |
blackntan | cheers all | 17:31 |
bigfluff | some hospitals it's the norm for them to have beds in the halls, etc. | 17:31 |
blackntan | 🍷 | 17:31 |
bigfluff | take care bud | 17:31 |
LjL | probably nothing new here, we already saw a few studies showing possible direct damage to other organs including the heart... but the general picture and the numbers of it... is scary https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-death-lungs-kidneys-heart-1.5536809 | 17:47 |
LjL | so much unlike what media usually tell us here that it's "just" about pneumonia | 17:48 |
MacGeek | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrWBKkUJMXE | 17:49 |
Hoffman | lol | 17:49 |
Hoffman | the media here in the US is telling us that its way more than just pneumonia or flu | 17:49 |
Hoffman | like fox has been sayin | 17:49 |
Hoffman | but then neocons rail on em for saying so | 17:49 |
Hoffman | supposedly this is no big deal and the media is just making it one | 17:50 |
AimHere | A lot of business owners and the people who say what business owners tell them to say are saying that, because the lockdown is kindof bad for business | 17:52 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, how to get refunds on travel and other deals → https://is.gd/acat85 | 17:52 |
AimHere | In the US, the death rate is nearly one 9/11 every day | 17:52 |
Hoffman | bUt mOrE pEoPlE wIlL bE sAd AnD kIlL tHeMsElVeS iF tHeY cAnT wOrK | 17:53 |
AimHere | I suspect they're not going to offset those against the fewer vehicular accidents and workplace ailments and industrial accidents! | 17:54 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:54 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Oggi come indicato ieri non ci sarà la conferenza stampa della Protezione Civile. → https://is.gd/oAq6WK | 17:59 |
genevino | AimHere: america first! | 18:10 |
Hoffman | lol | 18:10 |
Hoffman | murca | 18:10 |
Hoffman | "Aim Here: America First!" --Donald Trump, speaking to Coronavirus | 18:11 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:09 UTC: (news): New York coronavirus hospitalizations continue to decline as Cuomo calls for federal testing help → https://is.gd/9HadIx | 18:13 |
bn_mobile | mefistofeles: thanks for that link 🙂, just finished reading all of it, was a very fascinating read for sure (almost like a mystery!) | 18:19 |
bn_mobile | I found this quote interesting: | 18:20 |
bn_mobile | > "Why has Huang Yanling not done the same? Surely she is aware of the rumors surrounding her on social media. Even if she was not aware, would it really be impossible for the Chinese government to get in touch with her and have her issue an in-person statement to the media? It would only be impossible if she was dead. " | 18:21 |
Hoffman | bn_mobile: that is kind of adorable, thinking chinese media works the same way US media does | 18:25 |
Hoffman | or even has the same goals | 18:25 |
Hoffman | like convincing other countries they're telling the truth | 18:25 |
Hoffman | their goal isnt to do that, it's to convince their own people they're telling the truth | 18:26 |
Hoffman | and they do that pretty easily | 18:26 |
danielp3344 | Hoffman: I think today the gap is not as wide as you might imagine | 18:26 |
Hoffman | I think that would depend on how much I imagine, which is unknowable | 18:26 |
Hoffman | ;p | 18:26 |
danielp3344 | fair enough | 18:26 |
danielp3344 | But here in the US of A I wouldn't exactly say our media has any integrity | 18:27 |
Hoffman | what I can say is that chinese state media will only say exactly what the government wants it to say | 18:27 |
danielp3344 | or tries | 18:27 |
Hoffman | that doesnt matter here | 18:27 |
Hoffman | nothing more and nothing less | 18:27 |
Hoffman | than what the government wants it to say | 18:27 |
danielp3344 | Hoffman: here we just have to say "The government said it!" and everyone listens | 18:28 |
Hoffman | ugh | 18:28 |
danielp3344 | And anyone else must be wrong | 18:28 |
Hoffman | can we please have a discussion about one thing without whataboutism | 18:28 |
Hoffman | Im discussing chinese state owned media specifically | 18:28 |
danielp3344 | alright fine | 18:28 |
danielp3344 | Hoffman: yes it's different, but not that different | 18:29 |
danielp3344 | and the ends are pretty similar | 18:29 |
Hoffman | there are still incidents where chinese journalists are persecuted, killed, or disappeared for reporting on things the government didnt want them to | 18:29 |
danielp3344 | I can believe that | 18:30 |
bn_mobile | Hoffman: I think you're mistaking the terms, the quote was "social media" not "media" , there's a slight difference | 18:34 |
Hoffman | bn_mobile: Im referring to this part: "issue an in-person statement to the media" | 18:34 |
Hoffman | the media isn't interested in that because the government isn't interested in that | 18:35 |
bn_mobile | Also, coincidentally it's in the best interest of the CCP to rule out a lab-leak theory | 18:35 |
Hoffman | the government isnt interested in that because clarifying their fate isn't the goal | 18:35 |
Hoffman | the goal is suppressing dissent | 18:35 |
Hoffman | and someone disappearing serves to both scare the populace into compliance, while offering plausible deniability for the government, while also denying explicit martyr status | 18:36 |
bn_mobile | Getting a statement from supposed P0 would be the easiest way to quell dissent | 18:37 |
bn_mobile | Heck, if the media is as controlled as you say they could even manufacture it, but they haven't | 18:38 |
Hoffman | it wouldn't be the easiest way to quell dissent | 18:39 |
Hoffman | ignoring it is | 18:39 |
Hoffman | uncertainty is a far better controller than certainty | 18:39 |
python476 | hoi | 18:41 |
python476 | how is y'qll doing | 18:41 |
bn_mobile | You don't think Chinese citizens are mad that they're literally locked in their homes & dying? As a controlling govt would you rather have your populace believe a virus leaked out from a BSL-4 lab employee (employee lack of proper lab procedures) or that it was a freak natural circumstance? I think they would prefer the latter for obvious reasons | 18:42 |
Hoffman | just doing some reading and baking at home | 18:42 |
python476 | Hi Dustin | 18:42 |
Hoffman | bn_mobile: no, I can guarantee you that chinese citizens are not like american citizens | 18:42 |
Hoffman | they dont hold the same values, and not in the same order either, because it's a totally different culture | 18:42 |
Hoffman | subservience and loyalty to the state, rather than individual freedoms, have been stressed for decades | 18:43 |
python476 | What about proximity between Chinese and Japanese ? | 18:43 |
Hoffman | people who were not, were purged by Mao by the millions | 18:43 |
python476 | Hoffman: it's odd how the meaning of social differs | 18:43 |
python476 | in the west mannered individualism is a goal | 18:43 |
python476 | in the east a society dillutes the individual a bit | 18:44 |
python476 | (not judging any of them) | 18:44 |
Hoffman | bn_mobile: keep in mind, too, that it is a surveillance state | 18:44 |
bn_mobile | Hoffman: I didn't say they don't have different cultural values, but you're ignoring logic though | 18:44 |
Hoffman | and anyone leaving to join a protest would either be stopped, or logged and then persecuted | 18:44 |
Hoffman | bn_mobile: telling someone they're "ignoring logic" just because you disagree with them is a good way to end a good discussion | 18:44 |
bn_mobile | You obviously haven't seen posts by angry Chinese citizens blaming the govt for the deaths of family members | 18:46 |
Atque | %cases maryland | 18:48 |
Brainstorm | Atque: In Maryland, US, there are 12308 cases (0.2% of the population) and 463 deaths (3.8% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 65370 tests were performed (18.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Maryland for time series data. | 18:48 |
Atque | %cases tasmania | 18:48 |
Brainstorm | Atque: In Tasmania, Australia, there are 184 cases (0.0% of the population) and 8 deaths (4.3% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 4164 tests were performed (4.4% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.4% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 10.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Tasmania for time series data. | 18:48 |
Atque | %cases nsw | 18:48 |
Brainstorm | Atque: In New Brunswick, Canada, there are 117 cases (0.0% of the population) and 0 deaths (0.0% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 7963 tests were performed (1.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20Brunswick for time series data. | 18:49 |
bn_mobile | Hoffmam: Lol, if that's how you choose to see it, you're the one that chose to not have an open mind | 18:49 |
bn_mobile | Yes, definitely a lot of surveillance, I don't deny that | 18:50 |
Hoffman | bn_mobile: not interested in discussing something with someone who has insulted me | 18:51 |
Hoffman | PASS | 18:51 |
bn_mobile | But think about what I said earlier about the two possibilities in front of the CCP, ie: put yourself in their shoes | 18:51 |
bn_mobile | ie: assume you're an authoritarian-esque govt faced with that question | 18:52 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 16:51 UTC: Aggiornamento 18/04: submitted by /u/maikk_ to r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA → https://is.gd/WI5e2N | 18:56 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:03 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus, folla per il funerale del sindaco di Saviano - la Repubblica → https://is.gd/CvrXGB | 19:04 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:08 UTC: (news): New York coronavirus deaths top 13,000 but hospitalization continues to drop, Cuomo says → https://is.gd/9HadIx | 19:11 |
bn_mobile | Hoffman: lol, you're taking things way too personally. If you're insulted by someone that suggests to look at things "logically", that's silly. That's not even an insult, lol | 19:14 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:12 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Francia → https://is.gd/8vnh2b | 19:18 |
Hoffman | bn_mobile: that is different from what you said, and the difference is precisely why you're paraphrasing yourself now, instead of quoting yourself | 19:18 |
Hoffman | has the whole world forgotten how to acknowledge wrongdoing? | 19:19 |
Hoffman | you start with "I messed up in this way" | 19:19 |
Hoffman | and you finish with "I am sorry" | 19:19 |
Hoffman | I guess the president has been a role model for a lot of people | 19:20 |
ecov | "wrongdoing" lol | 19:20 |
Hoffman | yeah, like insulting someone | 19:20 |
Hoffman | you say, "I insulted you, and I am sorry" | 19:20 |
prometeus[m] | Hello | 19:20 |
bn_mobile | Hoffman: if you were insulted then, my apologies, that was not my intention. To me the lack of actions from the CCP seemed like a logical impossibility because the researcher in question may no longer even be alive. | 19:21 |
Hoffman | heya | 19:21 |
Hoffman | start with "I messed up in this way" | 19:21 |
Hoffman | finish with "I am sorry" | 19:21 |
ecov | "you're ignoring logic" ... that's what did it? | 19:21 |
Hoffman | there are no conditionals involved | 19:21 |
Hoffman | you definitely did something wrong, so there's no 'if' | 19:21 |
kPa | Telling someone how to apologize IS a conditional | 19:21 |
ecov | delicate | 19:21 |
Hoffman | ecov: honestly, any personal attack when the topic isnt either of the discussers | 19:21 |
Hoffman | kPa: no, that's instructive | 19:21 |
Hoffman | conditional means "if this then that" | 19:22 |
kPa | No you're telling someone how to feel. | 19:22 |
Hoffman | IF you were insulted, Im sorry | 19:22 |
Hoffman | not | 19:22 |
Hoffman | "I insulted you, and I am sorry" | 19:22 |
Hoffman | which is the correct way to apologize | 19:22 |
ecov | Hoffman are you on HRT? | 19:22 |
Hoffman | kPa: if hes not sorry for apologizing, then by all means he shouldnt | 19:22 |
ecov | by chance | 19:22 |
Hoffman | er | 19:22 |
Hoffman | kPa: if hes not sorry for insulting, then by all means he shouldnt apologize | 19:22 |
Hoffman | I definitely dont want him to *feel* sorry if he isnt | 19:23 |
ecov | why would he feel sorry? | 19:23 |
Hoffman | just telling him how to properly apologize if he already does feel sorry | 19:23 |
ecov | its your right to take offense to anything you want | 19:23 |
ecov | i'm offended by your current behavior | 19:23 |
Hoffman | kPa: and if he isnt sorry, thats fine too | 19:23 |
Hoffman | he just should stop tryna talk me back up as if nothing happened lol | 19:23 |
kPa | he told you exactly what he was sorry for, your feeling insulted | 19:23 |
Hoffman | he said he was sorry if I felt insulted | 19:24 |
ubLIX | ok | 19:24 |
ubLIX | ok ok ok | 19:24 |
ecov | "I'm sorry you're so emotionally unhinged" | 19:24 |
Hoffman | not sorry for something he definitely did | 19:24 |
Hoffman | but like I said, thats ok | 19:24 |
kPa | and if you didn't feel insulted, what is there to be sorry for? | 19:24 |
ubLIX | points have been made; we're adults; closure is not necessary; we can just drop the whole thing | 19:24 |
Hoffman | if hes not sorry, that is fine | 19:24 |
mefistofeles | just stop this nonsense xD | 19:24 |
kPa | this is a distinction without a difference | 19:24 |
Hoffman | like I said, Im not gonna make him feel a way he doesnt | 19:24 |
Hoffman | just informing him that im not interested in chatting with him | 19:24 |
mefistofeles | Hoffman: kPa , you can take it to a private conversation | 19:24 |
Hoffman | mefistofeles: take what | 19:25 |
Hoffman | like I said, I'm copacetic | 19:25 |
ecov | That's the either/or you were denying | 19:25 |
ecov | "apologize or I'll mute you" | 19:25 |
ecov | weirdo | 19:25 |
Hoffman | settle down | 19:25 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:23 UTC: (news): New York coronavirus deaths top 13,000 but hospitalization continues to drop, Cuomo says → https://is.gd/9HadIx | 19:25 |
ubLIX | mutes will follow; drop the whole thing | 19:26 |
mefistofeles | ↑ | 19:26 |
Hoffman | --> | 19:26 |
zROB | <-- | 19:26 |
zROB | rightist | 19:27 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: One trip per week. One person per household. That should be the law for grocery buying, union says (10474 votes) | https://redd.it/g3n2ch | 19:29 |
Birosso | I have arrived. | 19:29 |
Hoffman | same | 19:29 |
Birosso | :( | 19:30 |
Birosso | "One trip per week. One person per household" What if you don't have a car? | 19:30 |
ubLIX | have strong arms? | 19:30 |
Birosso | For an entire family? | 19:30 |
bin_bash | maybe dont have a family thne | 19:31 |
bin_bash | duh | 19:31 |
Birosso | Good idea. | 19:31 |
MinceR | lol | 19:31 |
ubLIX | trolley? | 19:31 |
Birosso | Problem solved. | 19:31 |
ubLIX | idk. i'd hate not having a car right now | 19:31 |
kPa | I love how well IRC solves problems. | 19:31 |
MinceR | stop having self-important simpletons organize your life for you | 19:32 |
MinceR | problem solved. | 19:32 |
MinceR | (IOW, abolish the state) | 19:32 |
bin_bash | abolish the poor | 19:32 |
Birosso | I walk 30 minutes to and from to buy groceries. I'd hate to have to haul an entire week's worth. | 19:32 |
bin_bash | by eating them | 19:32 |
ubLIX | let them eat solyent! | 19:32 |
bin_bash | everyones always like "eat the rich eat the rich" YAWN more like enslave the poor. #thepoorowemelabor | 19:32 |
kPa | I misread that and thought you said "let them eat solvent" for a minute | 19:33 |
bin_bash | LOL | 19:33 |
bin_bash | feed them rubbing alcohol! | 19:33 |
zROB | Problem solved. | 19:33 |
bin_bash | hahahhaa in every way tbh | 19:34 |
zROB | time for devoice? | 19:37 |
ubLIX | hmm? | 19:38 |
bin_bash | hm? | 19:39 |
MinceR | eat the rich, eat the poor. YAWN. | 19:40 |
MinceR | EXTERMINATE ALL HUMANS | 19:40 |
kPa | killing all the humans would reduce total human suffering | 19:41 |
MinceR | indeed | 19:41 |
MinceR | it would also reduce pollution | 19:41 |
zROB | tis the law of math | 19:42 |
MinceR | and it would also reduce the spread of human coronaviruses | 19:42 |
ubLIX | found the paperclip maximiser | 19:43 |
ubLIX | Get IT! | 19:43 |
MinceR | :) | 19:46 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, number of cases in Turkey overtakes Iran → https://is.gd/acat85 | 19:47 |
romare | yay go Turkey! | 19:53 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:49 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Ultimo Aggiornamento per Oggi → https://is.gd/qNDAxN | 19:54 |
genera | what was the explanation again for the many deaths in New York? | 19:59 |
nixonix | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/world/canada/canada-coronavirus.html | 19:59 |
nixonix | %title | 19:59 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nytimes.com: The Shocking Coronavirus Deaths in Canada’s Long-Term Care Homes - The New York Times | 19:59 |
Hoffman | genera: population density, plus everyone wanting to go there, plus a lack of early restrictions | 20:07 |
genera | and obesity? and air pollution? or mainly late lockdown? | 20:08 |
genera | and a different strain ^ | 20:14 |
ubLIX | late lock down, lack of extreme contact tracing effort, late quarantines, and late testing are the major failing of every western area, pretty much | 20:15 |
ubLIX | the theme is lateness | 20:15 |
Hoffman | genera: def not obesity | 20:16 |
genera | oh and low number of tests. rite. | 20:16 |
Hoffman | generally southerners and ruralers are more obese than city dwellers | 20:16 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:11 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, number of cases in Turkey overtakes Iran → https://is.gd/acat85 | 20:16 |
genera | ok | 20:16 |
Hoffman | so I dont think that contributed to new york's elevated rate | 20:16 |
Hoffman | but it's dense, and one of the top cities in the world as far as where people visit from all around the world | 20:17 |
Hoffman | those create conditions for fast spreading | 20:17 |
Hoffman | so if you dont have restrictions early, you're gonna have a bad time | 20:17 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Oregon governor issues order to prevent debt collectors from seizing stimulus checks (10858 votes) | https://redd.it/g3nf6t | 20:17 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:20 UTC: Cuomo says New York will grant marriage licenses remotely: 'There is now no excuse when the question comes up': New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said the state will start granting marriage licenses remotely as lockdown measures designed to stop the spread of coronavirus remain in effect. → https://is.gd/yPKoWN | 20:23 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:27 UTC: New York coronavirus deaths top 13,000 but hospitalization continues to drop, Cuomo says: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo called on the federal government to help state labs acquire chemical reagents needed to perform coronavirus tests. → https://is.gd/9HadIx | 20:30 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 18:36 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: 'Critical' to get protective kit to front line - NHS medical director → https://is.gd/GElvFu | 20:45 |
ecov | hmm | 20:49 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:38 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US accused of 'dereliction of duty' as deaths in Spain top 20,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 20:52 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:57 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, number of cases in Turkey overtakes Iran → https://is.gd/acat85 | 21:07 |
P-S--Y | Series | 21:09 |
ubLIX | it speaks! | 21:10 |
LjL | ubLIX, oh, and my answer to that would be, nah, i've seen much much more annoying-looking ones | 21:11 |
ubLIX | much more annoying cyclers? | 21:11 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:09 UTC: New York coronavirus deaths top 13,000 but hospitalization continues to drop, Cuomo says: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo called on the federal government to help state labs acquire chemical reagents needed to perform coronavirus tests. → https://is.gd/9HadIx | 21:14 |
ubLIX | LjL: i'm reading this long exploration (from yesterday) of the ways in which covid-19 might rampage around the body: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes | 21:15 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 19:14 UTC: /u/slakmehl: El País English Edition su Twitter: "BREAKING: In televised address, Pedro Sánchez announces that there will be a “cautious and progressive” deescalation of confinement measures in Spain from May 11, and that children will be able to leave the home under controlled conditions from April 27 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/PXznCS | 21:21 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, Lady Gaga's massive One World: Together At Home starts → https://is.gd/acat85 | 21:28 |
wwinfo[m] | so what's the update on happening? | 21:31 |
wwinfo[m] | it seems various people now are getting a bit inpatient and want to remove quaranteens | 21:31 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:33 UTC: New York coronavirus deaths top 13,000 but hospitalization continues to drop, Cuomo says: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo called on the federal government to help state labs acquire chemical reagents needed to perform coronavirus tests. → https://is.gd/9HadIx | 21:35 |
Kodiak | Lifting lockdown anytime soon would be a mistake | 21:42 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:40 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US infections top 700,000, Lady Gaga's massive One World: Together At Home starts → https://is.gd/acat85 | 21:43 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:12 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: A gym chain considers bankruptcy, Lady Gaga's massive One World: Together At Home rolls → https://is.gd/acat85 | 22:19 |
Flaviker | !covid greece | 22:19 |
CoronaBot | Greece: Global rank: #57, cases: 2,235 (+11), fatalities: 110 (+2), active cases: 1,856, total recovered: 269, in a serious condition: 67. Mortality: 4.92%, case fatality rate: 29.02%, cases/1M: 214.0, deaths/1M: 11.0. Case rate: 17/24h, death rate: 3/24h. Tests: 53,290, tests/1M: 5,113. | 22:19 |
Flaviker | !covid | 22:20 |
CoronaBot | Total cases: 2,320,723 (+71,860), deaths: 159,475 (+5,330), recovered: 594,536. Active cases: 1,566,712, 1,511,543 are in a mild condition, 55,169 are in a serious condition. Mortality: 6.87%, case fatality rate: 21.15%. Case rate: 86,496/24h, death rate: 8,672/24h. Last update: 11m ago. | 22:20 |
underscore | Flaviker: the curve may be flat now in Greece | 22:26 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: A US gym chain considers bankruptcy as global cases top 2.3 million → https://is.gd/acat85 | 22:26 |
bjodn | !covid USA | 22:27 |
CoronaBot | USA: Global rank: #1, cases: 734,525 (+24,790), fatalities: 38,768 (+1,614), active cases: 629,008, total recovered: 66,749, in a serious condition: 13,544. Mortality: 5.28%, case fatality rate: 36.74%, cases/1M: 2219.0, deaths/1M: 117.0. Case rate: 32,165/24h, death rate: 2,535/24h. Tests: 3,689,117, tests/1M: 11,145. | 22:27 |
ryouma | is this meant to be a joke? it's funny. --- "UTC: Cuomo says New York will grant marriage licenses remotely: 'There is now no excuse when the question comes up'" | 22:27 |
Flaviker | <underscore>This is a calm before the storm | 22:29 |
Philippe[m] | ubLIX: good article, thank you | 22:30 |
underscore | Flaviker: unlikely, numbers have been going down since the lockdown and it's still in place | 22:31 |
underscore | numbers of news cases, that is | 22:32 |
underscore | new | 22:32 |
ryouma | those who are getting "too restless" being locked down might want to read this to get a sense of perspective. a STRONG dose of perspective is a good idea imo. | 22:33 |
ryouma | https://www.economist.com/news/2020/04/03/notes-on-isolation-from-those-who-know-it-well | 22:34 |
ryouma | it's first world problems | 22:34 |
ubLIX | ryouma: 'fwp' seems just a shade too dismissive of the psychological challenge inherent in long term isolation but i don't doubt the article is worth a look | 22:37 |
ryouma | i am not dismissing it in the slightest | 22:38 |
ryouma | not my intention at any rate | 22:38 |
ryouma | just saying perspective could be useful | 22:38 |
ryouma | it is worth a look :) | 22:38 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:37 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 2.3 million as pandemic forces businesses to shift plans → https://is.gd/acat85 | 22:41 |
ryouma | "Let us hope that when we all emerge from the cave we are changed. And that we don’t forget the people still stuck there." | 22:41 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:44 UTC: Coronavirus tests were delayed by contamination at CDC lab, report says: A delay by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in quickly making coronavirus test kits available was the result of "a glaring scientific breakdown" at the CDC's central lab, The Washington Post reported. → https://is.gd/ZYVgMQ | 22:55 |
ryouma | space station inhabitant: "A lot of my mental adjustment to being in a confined space station involved acceptance." | 22:57 |
ryouma | "We have all been told to stay at home – but we can still decide how we use our time." | 22:58 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus* at 20:45 UTC: Coronavirus: Florida is absolutely packed to the brim with people today as Governor Ron DeSantis re-opens the beaches despite the state recording 1,413 new #COVID19 cases - its highest one-day increase since the pandemic crisis began → https://is.gd/GlMz7D | 23:02 |
ryouma | why were teh beaches ever open for spring break? | 23:07 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:04 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The Post and Courier su Twitter: "BREAKING: South Carolina will reopen public beach accesses and retail stores closed under orders to slow the spread of coronavirus next week. https://t.co/58z0VPlnyd" → https://is.gd/yPPu8e | 23:09 |
cfowler | darwin was right | 23:20 |
LjL | uh... i haven't followed the graphs much in the past few days, been a little too much | 23:24 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:20 UTC: Healthcare workers protest for vital protection equipment: Healthcare workers around the U.S. have staged protests demanding more personal protection equipment to help keep them safe as they tend to patients with Covid-19. → https://is.gd/6OfvA6 | 23:24 |
LjL | but why is Spain now even considering undoing even just portions of the lockdown!? | 23:24 |
LjL | their case curve is now actually *spiking*. why is that | 23:24 |
LjL | https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Spain past three days, much steeper than before | 23:25 |
LjL | %cases belgium | 23:27 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Belgium, there are 37183 cases (0.3% of the population) and 5453 deaths (14.7% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 145997 tests were performed (25.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Belgium for time series data. | 23:27 |
LjL | %cases lombardy | 23:27 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In Lombardy, Italy, there are 64135 cases (0.6% of the population) and 11851 deaths (18.5% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 196302 tests were performed (32.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardy for time series data. | 23:27 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 2.3 million as pandemic forces businesses to shift plans → https://is.gd/acat85 | 23:31 |
LjL | i think i may not be the only one with "numbers tiredness" by now | 23:32 |
LjL | but meanwhile the numbers may spike again when nobody is bothering to look at them anymore ;( | 23:33 |
LjL | i mean, of course *someone* is bothered enough to look at them, and health bodies surely are | 23:33 |
LjL | but it's also a matter of public opinion whether given numbers warrant lockdowns or not | 23:33 |
LjL | since politicians still likely want to get elected again, the nightmare they are also facing notwithstanding | 23:34 |
LjL | new york times' article that i can't read without registering (which i won't) says US (somewhere in the US anyway) facing a shortage of dialysis units as they are also important for some COVID patients | 23:36 |
ubLIX | well worth the read, thank you, ryouma | 23:38 |
LjL | ubLIX, at some point i guess i will have to look up how to disable JS as practically everything nags me to register | 23:41 |
LjL | sometimes it works to just press Esc before that part of the page has loaded :PÅ | 23:41 |
ubLIX | what browser are you using? | 23:42 |
LjL | fox of fire | 23:42 |
LjL | to my chagrin | 23:42 |
LjL | since i wanted to be using Epiphany still | 23:42 |
LjL | but i am not | 23:42 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: also you can often copy and paste the content before the nag screen comes up then paste into a word processor to read it | 23:42 |
LjL | ah | 23:42 |
ubLIX | well then, add-ons > search for uBlock Origin, search for uMatrix > install both | 23:44 |
LjL | already halfway there | 23:44 |
ubLIX | uMatrix gives you the granular control of js at a click; uBlock Origin comes with more comprehensive blocking lists for ads, social media, malware, etc | 23:46 |
ubLIX | they play nicely together | 23:46 |
LjL | i have ublock origin, installed the other | 23:47 |
LjL | although i also have ad domains blocked in the router | 23:47 |
LjL | but sometimes that's not quite enough | 23:47 |
LjL | in particular, i think Epiphany wouldn't play youtube ads, but somehow Firefox does without uBlock Origin | 23:47 |
LjL | meanwhile: https://thetyee.ca/News/2020/04/17/14-Day-Quarantine-Too-Short/ ← 7% of cases take longer to show up than 14 days, and 5% take longer than 17 days | 23:47 |
LjL | obviously we knew cases *could* take longer than the 14 canonical days, but i guess it's "nice" to know how many | 23:48 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:46 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Spain's PM to ask for lockdown extension as deaths top 20,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 23:53 |
ryouma | great, i am glad you read it and found it so --- 14:38 <ubLIX> well worth the read, thank you, ryouma | 23:59 |
ryouma | 14:38 *** Urchin QUIT Ping timeout: 265 seconds | 23:59 |
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