| Urchin | ryouma: ? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:53 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 2.3 million as pandemic forces businesses to shift plans → https://is.gd/acat85 | 00:00 |
| ryouma | great, i am glad you read it and found it so --- 14:38 <ubLIX> well worth the read, thank you, ryouma | 00:00 |
| ryouma | Urchin: my join quit messages are in invisible text. that got picked up erroneously. apologies. | 00:00 |
| ryouma | re LjL's link “We think 22 days would be safer, but 22 days is a long period of time,” | 00:01 |
| ryouma | and the commnent above was on https://www.economist.com/news/2020/04/03/notes-on-isolation-from-those-who-know-it-well | 00:01 |
| linext | why does everyone have [m] in their username in this chatroom? | 00:07 |
| ubLIX | it means they are connecting to IRC via a client/protocol called matrix | 00:09 |
| LjL | ryouma, yeah it's a long period of time, i am not trying to say the quarantine should definitely be made longer than 14 days. but it's something to consider. | 00:10 |
| LjL[m] | ubLIX, or that they like you to think so! | 00:11 |
| ryouma | idk what is long or not. have no opinion. just meant to highlight a sort of summary of the link for those who don't follow it. | 00:11 |
| LjL[m] | :D | 00:11 |
| LjL[m] | ryouma, oh okay | 00:11 |
| LjL[m] | well i never linked to the article i guess. it was from ##science | 00:12 |
| LjL[m] | ... i think? | 00:12 |
| ryouma[s] | ? i am referring to your link :) | 00:12 |
| LjL[m] | i... | 00:12 |
| ryouma[s] | at :47 | 00:13 |
| LjL[m] | oh | 00:13 |
| LjL[m] | good grief, my brain | 00:13 |
| LjL[m] | yes, the new york times article that i couldn't read was something else but now i need to scroll up to see what THAT was either | 00:14 |
| LjL[m] | right, shortage of dialysis units | 00:14 |
| LjL[m] | i have a shortage of memory units | 00:14 |
| ryouma | i think i ahve succeeded in confusing everybody abouyt 3 different topics or osmething. there is the economist link which is totally different and was from me, the quarantine link from ljl, and idk what else. | 00:14 |
| LjL[m] | don't give yourself too much credit, i maintain i'm just sleepy-brained | 00:16 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: #FloridaMorons trends as people flock to the beach after coronavirus restrictions are lifted in parts of the state (10257 votes) | https://redd.it/g3r1mg | 00:18 |
| ryouma | if only they all didn't then go back home to vulnerable parents and so on | 00:19 |
| ryouma | although i suppose you could distance at a beach in principle | 00:19 |
| LjL[m] | blame the flock, but also blame the shepherd dog that leads them the wrong way | 00:19 |
| ryouma | yeah | 00:19 |
| ryouma | right | 00:19 |
| LjL[m] | ryouma, i heard it mentioned that some beaches in italy were trying plastic-isolated stalls | 00:20 |
| LjL[m] | i'm sure i'd rather just stay home | 00:20 |
| LjL[m] | not sure if that's true either or just some joke | 00:20 |
| LjL[m] | didn't care | 00:20 |
| LjL[m] | but there's definitely "legit" discussion about whether or not we'll be allowed summer holidays, on tv and everywhere | 00:20 |
| LjL[m] | to which government "experts" reply they do not know at this time | 00:21 |
| LjL[m] | while clearly thinking "lol, no" not even evry deep inside | 00:21 |
| Blankspace | How many deaths today | 00:21 |
| LjL[m] | %cases | 00:21 |
| Brainstorm | LjL[m]: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.3 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 159549 deaths (6.9% of cases) as of a minute ago. 19.7 million tests were performed (11.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 00:21 |
| ryouma | there is probably a kind of tragedy o0f the commons or smoething where you really need teh shepherd. maybe you'll get the cute one in the red bikini if you go and your classmate stays home responsibly. or something. | 00:21 |
| Blankspace | Death has become so cheap | 00:22 |
| LjL[m] | i called the bot mainly to click on the link but now it isn't loading | 00:22 |
| LjL[m] | ryouma, i want to remember people are individuals but i can't be denied there are group behaviors that can be learned and then expected | 00:23 |
| LjL[m] | it* | 00:23 |
| ryouma | yeah | 00:23 |
| ryouma | in japan, some of the lockdowns are basically, you are requested to stay at home. which actually means more like commanded. but there is no legal force behind it. | 00:23 |
| ryouma | or demanded (idk the word) | 00:24 |
| LjL[m] | yeah, there is no legal lockdown in tokyo | 00:25 |
| ryouma | in any case, some places are more mature than others. i don't feel the us is all that mature in every place right now, unfortunately | 00:25 |
| LjL[m] | ryouma, i wouldn't take it for granted the non-lockdowns are being maturely repsected in japan. look at the graph, it's still not huge, but it's exponential, it doesn't look like in places with hard lockdowns | 00:25 |
| LjL[m] | also, japanese hoarded toilet paper, too | 00:26 |
| LjL[m] | besides i wouldn't necessarily associate obeying orders even when they are not legally binding with maturity | 00:26 |
| ryouma | https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/04/06/national/japan-state-of-emergency-covid-19/ | 00:26 |
| LjL[m] | it's just... one aspect of cultures | 00:26 |
| ryouma | they didn't provide the ja word | 00:26 |
| LjL[m] | sometimes it's more useful than other times | 00:26 |
| ryouma | i agree with eerything you said | 00:27 |
| LjL[m] | Blankspace, so the answer, after offloop.net finally loaded on my browser, is, nearly 10000 people are registered to have died in the past one day | 00:27 |
| LjL[m] | and like the spanish graph... it was kiiind of slightly tapering off, but then it spiked back up | 00:28 |
| ryouma | they also ran out of masks, suggesting possible hoarding of those | 00:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:03 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Spain's PM to ask for lockdown extension as deaths top 20,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 00:29 |
| LjL[m] | running out of masks is easy even if they're not actually hoarded, but simply everyone who was not previously using masks (even if most people tend to in japan) decides to start | 00:29 |
| LjL[m] | so... is spain partly releasing the lockdown, or extending it? i guess they are not mutually exclusive things. but their graphs really look like they should extend it without making anything looser | 00:30 |
| ubLIX[mhm] | that Spain spike kinda looked like a change in report method or report-catchup event | 00:31 |
| ubLIX[mhm] | *kinda* | 00:32 |
| ryouma | idk, masks are kind of everywhere, but they emptied. it could be just that they needed to top up or stockpile a small amount for a small possibility of lockdown and that was enough. | 00:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 22:12 UTC: worldnews: More Than 1,000 French Sailors Test Positive For Coronavirus—On A Single Ship → https://is.gd/sYSHUV | 00:36 |
| LjL[m] | ubLIX[mhm], yeah, perhaps. i thought it may be, it's rather suspiciously abrupt. but... what is more accurate, the before or the after? 'cause the before was showing a slowdown, now it's going up linearly but steeply | 00:39 |
| LjL[m] | ryouma, well, if any country had had even a semblance of pandemic preparedness plans, then yes, they may have stocked some masks at least | 00:39 |
| ubLIX[hmm] | look at it in non-cumulative, though | 00:41 |
| ubLIX[hmm] | 15th April, jump in both cases and deaths | 00:42 |
| ubLIX[hmm] | they shouldn't be spiking at the same time, unless reporting artefact, or coincidence | 00:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:32 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Spain's PM to ask for lockdown extension as deaths top 20,000: China pushes ‘comprehensive’ economic reopening; first virus case in Syria’s northeast; Germany says pandemic ‘under control’. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/jkI38X | 00:43 |
| azk276[m] | Hello, I live in France | 00:44 |
| ubLIX[hmm] | idk how reliable the live-data is, but if you include it (and ignore the "reporting spike") then the downward trend continues | 00:44 |
| Birosso | Why are you on the other side of the bridge? | 00:44 |
| azk276[m] | If you want to discuss with me about the current situation, i'm available | 00:45 |
| ubLIX[hmm] | that could well just be a "live data" artefact, though | 00:45 |
| Birosso | This thing is threating our way of life. | 00:45 |
| ubLIX[hmm] | salami doesn't successfully cross the bridge | 00:46 |
| ORB91 | This channel MAY be publicly logged | 00:47 |
| Birosso | I was about to ask if anyone knows how to make home-made bombs. Thank you for the warning. | 00:47 |
| ryouma | so purchase a push cart? | 00:49 |
| ryouma | or a thing to haul on your bicycle | 00:49 |
| ORB91 | hackers are making the best of a poor situation | 00:50 |
| Birosso | I have nothing to hide so I have nothing to fear. | 00:51 |
| JamGobbar | https://www.foxnews.com/science/researchers-discover-new-coronavirus-symptoms-feet-lesions | 00:51 |
| JamGobbar | got feet lesions? | 00:51 |
| ryouma | i heard a response to that: "i have nothing to say so there is no need for free speech" | 00:52 |
| ORB91 | so what your credit card number? | 00:52 |
| ORB91 | so why are you cloaked? | 00:52 |
| ORB91 | so were do you live so that i can teach you how to make home-made bombs | 00:54 |
| ORB91 | ypos | 00:56 |
| ubLIX | what does ypos stand for? | 00:57 |
| ynhof[m] | Ya point of sale | 00:57 |
| ubLIX | mhm | 00:57 |
| ORB91 | what does ubLIX stand for? | 00:57 |
| adventurer | lots of people are dying where my ancestors are from in Wales | 01:00 |
| LjL[m] | y/whois orb91 | 01:00 |
| LjL[m] | ahem | 01:00 |
| ynhof[m] | %data whales | 01:02 |
| Brainstorm | ynhof[m]: Sorry, whales not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 01:02 |
| ynhof[m] | %data wales | 01:02 |
| Brainstorm | ynhof[m]: In Wales, United Kingdom, there are 6401 cases (0.2% of the population) and 384 deaths (6.0% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Wales for time series data. | 01:02 |
| ryouma | %data taiwan | 01:02 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Taiwan, there are 398 cases (0.0% of the population) and 6 deaths (1.5% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 52445 tests were performed (0.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 3.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Taiwan for time series data. | 01:02 |
| AimHere | 384? UK government is saying 534 | 01:02 |
| Blankspace | %data Malta | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | Blankspace: In all areas, Malta, there are 426 cases (0.1% of the population) and 3 deaths (0.7% of cases) as of a minute ago. 22254 tests were performed (1.9% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.2% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 2.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Malta for time series data. | 01:06 |
| Blankspace | Ljl is there any vaccination in sight anytime soon? | 01:08 |
| bin_bash | Blankspace: 18-24 months | 01:09 |
| LjL[m] | blackntan, yes, that | 01:10 |
| LjL[m] | 12 months if we are very lucky | 01:10 |
| LjL[m] | but very | 01:10 |
| bin_bash | yeah | 01:10 |
| bin_bash | that's like the most best case lol | 01:10 |
| bin_bash | like some insane breakthrough happens | 01:10 |
| ORB91 | vaccination for covid19 will be available by the time covid20 is out | 01:10 |
| Blankspace | So people will keep losing lives for coming two yrs | 01:10 |
| bin_bash | yes, and possibly past that but hopefully more promising and effective treatments will be developed | 01:11 |
| bin_bash | s/possibly/likely/g | 01:11 |
| nixonix | maybe covid20 is just a facelift | 01:11 |
| bin_bash | lol | 01:12 |
| ubLIX | Blankspace: a good project for any country is to get case numbers down to such a small number that contact tracing and isolation becomes feasible and can keep a lid on contagion | 01:13 |
| ubLIX | efforts in that vein might succeed before a vaccine appears | 01:13 |
| Xip | Sweden will not back down even though WHO says you may not get immune against the virus, "It doesn't make any sense" says statsepidemiolog (not sure about the title in English) Anders Tegnell | 01:15 |
| ryouma | sweden is basically what uk wanted? | 01:16 |
| Xip | ryouma, Herd immunity | 01:17 |
| ryouma | %data sweden | 01:18 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Sweden, there are 13822 cases (0.1% of the population) and 1511 deaths (10.9% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 74600 tests were performed (18.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Sweden for time series data. | 01:18 |
| ryouma | dunno the population sizes so dunno but that is not taiwan | 01:18 |
| Xip | I thought WHO was somehow behind this thing, where they would use Sweden as a control group, but now, not sure | 01:20 |
| Xip | Who knows? Maybe all of us will die here, sure does not seem like it, but we got some deaths now.. I can't put my finger on it. We'll see in the coming weeks. There must be some immunity going on | 01:23 |
| tinwhiskers | Sweden: 131 per 100,000 popn; taiwan: 1.7 per 100,000 popn | 01:23 |
| Xip | Sure we got a lot of deaths, but for some reason I still think it's the way to go, just keep the old ones out of it, it may just take some more time | 01:24 |
| tinwhiskers | There is some immunity. When the WHO says you may not get immune that means not *everyone* will get an immune response. It doesn't mean there is any real chance that *nobody* will get an immune response. | 01:25 |
| tinwhiskers | from what I've seen about 10% of people may get no immune response. 30% a weak response (effectively none?) and the rest get an effective response, but that's extremely interim. | 01:25 |
| tinwhiskers | erm. when I say immune response there, I mean develop the long-lasting B-type antibodies | 01:28 |
| _io_ | how interim? | 01:28 |
| _io_ | like I know you said extremely | 01:29 |
| tinwhiskers | They all developed an immune response or they wouldn't have recovered :-/ | 01:29 |
| _io_ | but how long | 01:29 |
| _io_ | does an average person carry antibodies? | 01:29 |
| tinwhiskers | _io_: well that we don't know but B-cell antibodies tend to be fairly long lived | 01:29 |
| _io_ | months? | 01:29 |
| _io_ | 3? | 01:29 |
| tinwhiskers | Well, not much time has passed yet so we can't really say for sure | 01:30 |
| _io_ | nod | 01:30 |
| tinwhiskers | but likely a couple of years or more given "normal" situations | 01:30 |
| Xip | Good that some countries are not in lockdown anyway, it will help us to see what is going on | 01:30 |
| _io_ | would be nice! | 01:31 |
| tinwhiskers | But those that don't develop those antibodies or just develop them weakly could well be getting reinfected fairly soon after recovering. | 01:31 |
| tinwhiskers | (fairly soon = ???) | 01:31 |
| Xip | In a few months we'll know how dangerous this really is | 01:33 |
| ubLIX | Xip: I think we already have seen enough variation in lock down strategy to see how it goes; no need to wish devastation on some hapless country just to get a more empirical picture | 01:34 |
| Xip | ubLIX, This virus can be very dangerous, we don't know | 01:35 |
| ubLIX | "we" are well aware that it is very dangerous | 01:35 |
| ThomCat[m] | Might not be till autumn till we see a giant uptick, but maybe coronavirus won't be affected as much by the temperature change? | 01:36 |
| Xip | The temp doesn't matter | 01:36 |
| _io_ | I don't think temperature matters even 5%. | 01:37 |
| _io_ | maybe it matters like 2-3%. | 01:37 |
| Xip | Uehm no it usually matters, what I mean is they have studied this virus and it doesn't matter with this one | 01:38 |
| _io_ | that is what I mean too. | 01:38 |
| _io_ | it doesn't prefer heat but it's relatively indifferent. | 01:38 |
| tinwhiskers | ThomCat[m]: if you imagine a flu virus with a R(eff) of 1.2, then the change in temperature combined with change in behaviour (going outdoors) can quite easily drop that R below 1, meaning it will fade away. However when you have an R(eff) of 4 or more like with this disease the change from seasons will not be enough to drop the R below 1 so it will persist. Temperature will have very little effect. | 01:38 |
| ThomCat[m] | Right. Shit, didn't know the R Naught was still that high. | 01:39 |
| Toadisattva | what causes "flu season"? is it the shifting to colder temperature effecting peoples immune systems? | 01:39 |
| ubLIX | Xip: this April 17th roundup of the clinical picture so far might be worth your while: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes | 01:39 |
| tinwhiskers | it may help a little, so if the management plans put the R(eff) near 1 the temperature change may be the last straw for persistence but don't count on it | 01:39 |
| adventurer | Toadisattva, because some virus' are covered with a fatty layer that sort of sets harder protecting them at lower temperatures making them live longer on surfaces i think might be one factor. | 01:41 |
| tinwhiskers | Toadisattva: the flu has evolved to sit in a sweet spot having an R(eff) just over 1 for the very reason that the seasons put a selective pressure on it to do that. Seasons cause it to proliferate around the world in waves, which is a beneficial strategy that gets selected for. | 01:41 |
| Xip | ubLIX, Anything particular I should look into here? I am kinda sleepy. It's soon 2 AM | 01:42 |
| ThomCat[m] | Also 6.57 billion live in the northern hemisphere, which means most people have winter at the same time | 01:42 |
| ubLIX | Xip: it's an overview; save it for your morning coffee, then | 01:42 |
| Xip | ubLIX, Alright | 01:42 |
| ThomCat[m] | winter/colder temps | 01:43 |
| adventurer | because noone is immune perhaps the seasons might not make as much of a difference even if it is seasonal | 01:43 |
| Toadisattva | I'm still unclear is it the result of the properties of the virus itself and has little do to with people? | 01:44 |
| adventurer | not live longer but survive longer anyway i am not an expert but i know i have heard experts say that about other virus's like the flu | 01:44 |
| adventurer | i mean be able to infect someone longer | 01:44 |
| Toadisattva | so we have less sumemr flus because it's unable to last as long outsied a host in the warmer temperatures? | 01:45 |
| adventurer | i also heard a scientist say people are indoors more often in winter so more likely to spread that way as a factor | 01:45 |
| tinwhiskers | Toadisattva: the seasonal effect is a mix of people's behaviour and the the pressure for the virus to evolve to an R value of just over 1. | 01:45 |
| adventurer | also people's lungs don't work as well in cold weather if they are healthy or espeically if they have some lung problems like asthma the cold dry weather seems to make it worse and also, I heard some people say virus's might stay viable longer in cold dry weather but make sure you look everything up yourself i am just repeating what i think i heard on the radio | 01:46 |
| Xip | I can't find any study now regarding the stability of this new virus, but anyway I read just somewhere it is stable up to almost boiling temp | 01:46 |
| adventurer | yes i heard that also xip above 60 degrees Celcius | 01:47 |
| Xip | Fuck can't find any good resource here, so maybe disregard that, I might be talking shit | 01:47 |
| tinwhiskers | if the virus has an R value of say, 1.5 then the seasonal effect disappears and those viruses actually persist less over time because the population develops herd immunity, so there is a selective pressure toward having an R value of around 1.2 so that it moves around in waves and continues to hit naiive populations | 01:47 |
| adventurer | so ...maybe it's not like the flu | 01:47 |
| adventurer | in that way | 01:47 |
| Xip | But this virus may give zero fuck if it's hot or not anyway =) | 01:48 |
| adventurer | maybe time will tell how seasonal it is but even as we can still get the flu in summer maybe this thing even more since noone is immune | 01:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:35 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Europe deaths approach 100,000 as US looks to lift restrictions: Trump says he doesn’t believe China and Iran death tolls; Spanish PM to ask for lockdown extension; Ireland ‘flattens curve’. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 01:48 |
| adventurer | i think you're right Xip we don't know | 01:48 |
| tinwhiskers | Xip: well, it does affect it but in the scheme of things that's a minor effect compared to management | 01:48 |
| Toadisattva | any research on the effects humidity on SARS-CoV-2 | 01:53 |
| tinwhiskers | There is... I saw some ages ago but don't have the link | 01:53 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, that was on surface survival though, not infectiousness | 01:53 |
| tinwhiskers | the gist is that hot and dry air kills the virus the best (not surprisingly - dries it out). Hot humid air wasn't so good. | 01:54 |
| tinwhiskers | at lower temperatures I forget what the effect of humidity was but I think it was kind of reversed for some reason. | 01:55 |
| Xip | It's a strange little thing | 01:57 |
| adventurer | https://aem.asm.org/content/76/9/2712/figures-only | 01:57 |
| jebach | %cases | 01:57 |
| Brainstorm | jebach: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.3 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 160505 deaths (6.9% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 19.7 million tests were performed (11.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 01:57 |
| Xip | adventurer, This is not Sars-covs-2 | 01:59 |
| adventurer | yeah not for covid-19 | 02:00 |
| Xip | adventurer, If you want some idea of what this one is it's better to look at the first SARS, I think | 02:01 |
| Xip | adventurer, https://www.who.int/csr/sars/survival_2003_05_04/en/ | 02:01 |
| adventurer | thanks | 02:02 |
| jester | https://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily | 02:03 |
| stinkpot | do you think a vaccine is possibel? | 02:03 |
| tinwhiskers | stinkpot: it's looking promising but a while away yet | 02:04 |
| stinkpot | what makes it possible that they can find a vaccine for this coronavirus while not others? | 02:04 |
| stinkpot | or was not so much time invested in others before because it wasn't economically important? | 02:04 |
| jester | https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-outbreak-september-not-wuhan-1498566 | 02:05 |
| tinwhiskers | stinkpot: here's a good overview: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/15/coronavirus-vaccine-prospects | 02:05 |
| mefistofeles | stinkpot: one reason is that it'smutating less than influenza, for example | 02:05 |
| mefistofeles | so far | 02:05 |
| mefistofeles | another is that it's more of a big deal, so more effort and resources are dedicated to this | 02:05 |
| tinwhiskers | stinkpot: there were some new technologies that came out of SARS and MERS that were just on the cusp of being ready and they are now being put into use. There is also a lot of extra effort this time. | 02:05 |
| mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: right, was about to cite that one, :) | 02:06 |
| Toadisattva | you got biolabs all over the world working furiously to find a vaccine for this one | 02:06 |
| Toadisattva | as a bonus maybe we'll get something effective for other coronaviruses as well or at least a good foundation for creating vaccines for other ones like say the common cold | 02:07 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah... a cure for the common cold... wth | 02:08 |
| _io_ | I believe 10-20% of colds are Coronaviruses?? | 02:08 |
| stinkpot | what were the new technologies/techniques that emerged as a result of MERS and SARS? | 02:08 |
| _io_ | the rest rhinovirus | 02:08 |
| stinkpot | or just name one | 02:08 |
| tinwhiskers | that's a bit more problematic but it becomes a possibility | 02:08 |
| tinwhiskers | _io_: oh yeah. good point | 02:08 |
| LjL | and a bunch of other viruses too | 02:09 |
| LjL | common cold is the technical term for "feeling pretty ugh", i believe | 02:09 |
| ORB91 | hope is not lost the stock markets are in the green | 02:10 |
| tinwhiskers | stinkpot: I think the mRNA technology is one of those. The pipeline article covers that I think. | 02:11 |
| adventurer | file:///C:/Users/William/Desktop/temp%20and%20%20sarscov2.pdf | 02:11 |
| adventurer | ship | 02:11 |
| adventurer | oops sorry | 02:11 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 02:11 |
| adventurer | https://www.nap.edu/download/25771 | 02:11 |
| Toadisattva | William is doxxed! | 02:11 |
| nixonix | two of them: Human coronaviruses OC43 and 229E have been recognized as causes of the common cold for many years and cause frequent reinfections throughout life. In adults, these viruses account for 4% to 15% of acute respiratory disease annually and up to 35% during peak periods. | 02:11 |
| ORB91 | you on windows? | 02:11 |
| nixonix | then theres two more, perhaps with smaller share | 02:11 |
| adventurer | got some people on irc will come down and harass me in real life | 02:12 |
| LjL | well, i mean, it has happened | 02:12 |
| ORB91 | i thought people here only used linux | 02:13 |
| adventurer | "In summary, although experimental studies show a relationship between higher temperatures | 02:14 |
| adventurer | and humidity levels, and reduced survival of SARS-CoV-2 in the laboratory, there are many | 02:14 |
| adventurer | other factors besides environmental temperature, humidity, and survival of the virus outside of | 02:14 |
| adventurer | the host, that influence and determine transmission rates among humans in the ‘real world’. " | 02:14 |
| Toadisattva | I'm wondering how likely it is to spread through HVAC systems | 02:15 |
| nixonix | one day ill try to make comparison between southern and northern us states | 02:15 |
| adventurer | . | 02:15 |
| nixonix | but funny how well nz and aus have done. and taiwan, singapore.. | 02:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:59 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Europe's death toll approaches 100,000 as US looks to lift restrictions: Trump says he doesn’t believe China and Iran death tolls; Spanish PM to ask for lockdown extension; Ireland ‘flattens curve’. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 02:17 |
| LjL | how is Ireland flattening the curve | 02:18 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: I think it's too soon to tell for Ireland | 02:19 |
| underscore | hello LjL | 02:19 |
| Toadisattva | so my understanding is we are just trying to flatten out the curve to not overload hospitals, but there isn't really any hope that we'll prevent catching/spreading it till herd immunity is reached | 02:19 |
| Xip | LjL, Their prime minister jumped in to take care of it personally | 02:19 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, yeah that's what the graph also seemed to tell me. i'd expect a headline that says something flattens the curve to actually show a... oh wait, i forgot it's a *headline* again :| | 02:20 |
| Xip | LjL, ^^ | 02:20 |
| LjL | hi underscore | 02:20 |
| LjL | Xip, i know, i've read about that | 02:20 |
| LjL | but i doubt that's enough to make the difference ;) | 02:20 |
| Guest18397 | hi | 02:20 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: Ireland flattens the curve, as deaths spike in Ireland | 02:21 |
| stinkpot | ljl how are you coping these days? | 02:21 |
| Xip | LjL, Yeah how are you man? | 02:21 |
| stinkpot | how can you say they're flattening the curve as deaths spike? | 02:21 |
| Xip | LjL, Forgot to ask too | 02:21 |
| LjL | i'm coping, but i've been feeling pretty confused | 02:21 |
| mefistofeles | stinkpot: just mocking the common headlines | 02:21 |
| stinkpot | i guess if you consider the deaths as a random spike | 02:21 |
| eddie_ | i'm anxious | 02:21 |
| stinkpot | lol | 02:21 |
| Xip | We are all anxious, but we were before all of this too I am sure | 02:21 |
| mefistofeles | stinkpot: but deaths are actually spiking a bit in Ireland, even though cases are slowing down, but we know there's delay between those | 02:21 |
| nixonix | googling is easier, but not much information yet. it should filter out other factors, and using that estimates needed, and the results can be misleading https://www.news1.news/a1/2020/04/coronavirus-the-heat-will-not-be-enough-what-the-studies-say.html | 02:21 |
| nixonix | %title | 02:22 |
| LjL | Xip, yeah, i know i was | 02:22 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.news1.news: Coronavirus: the heat will not be enough. What the studies say | News1 English | 02:22 |
| mefistofeles | stinkpot: still too soon, they have plenty of deaths and not so confirmed cases, so I think they lack testing | 02:22 |
| LjL | if anything... i might be at a slight advantage compared to less-anxious people, in that i'm already used to this state :P | 02:22 |
| LjL | although you don't really get used to it but whatever | 02:23 |
| ryouma | why would hot temperatures be bad if everybody stays indoors because it is hot? | 02:23 |
| Toadisattva | that link says they'v got the transmission rate below 1 | 02:23 |
| stinkpot | mefistofeles: damn i was expecting ireland to handle things better as they're a tiny nation | 02:23 |
| LjL | because most people in most parts of the world don't have air conditioning, or don't keep it at 21°C like some *cough*americans do? :P | 02:24 |
| adventurer | .that's a good link nixonix | 02:24 |
| LjL | anyway, let's not count on the hot temperatures doing anything | 02:24 |
| nixonix | yeah, some neverheard news site, but not bad an article | 02:24 |
| ryouma | so then ther eally hot places with lots of swamp coolers or ac will do worse? | 02:24 |
| JamGobbar | LjL: 74f is the perfect ac temp | 02:25 |
| LjL | nixonix, wasn't criticism to that particular article, just being wary on the notion that the hot season may help. already too many countries are warning to "reopen", i fear they may use that as an excuse | 02:25 |
| mefistofeles | stinkpot: yeah, they probably have too much mobility with the UK | 02:25 |
| LjL | JamGobbar, that's a fair bit lower than we're even *allowed* to keep it, legally :P | 02:25 |
| JamGobbar | you live in uae? | 02:26 |
| Toadisattva | it's just gonna spike again when we reopen | 02:26 |
| LjL | JamGobbar, in practice i think i keep it around 79 during the day, 77 during the night (after conversion from C) | 02:26 |
| LjL | JamGobbar, no | 02:26 |
| LjL | why would you think that | 02:26 |
| Toadisattva | hopefully at a slightly slower pace as more people start taking it seriously | 02:26 |
| JamGobbar | well cuz its hot as fuck | 02:26 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: it depends on the country, and most of them are not warnings :/ | 02:26 |
| ThomCat[m] | Just be happy you non-Americans aren't dealing with these bullshit protests | 02:26 |
| mefistofeles | well, not sure if *most*, but plenty of them | 02:26 |
| LjL | JamGobbar, the UAE have lots of oil and they can afford lots of air conditioning | 02:26 |
| Toadisattva | oh heavens the protests | 02:26 |
| LjL | and i do believe literally everything there is air conditioned | 02:27 |
| LjL | i'm in italy | 02:27 |
| Toadisattva | I mean it's a meme that americans are dumb, but goddamn the (we) really are | 02:27 |
| Toadisattva | they* | 02:27 |
| mefistofeles | Toadisattva: don't feel so special | 02:27 |
| mefistofeles | :P | 02:27 |
| JamGobbar | you have a corona bot in here? | 02:27 |
| mefistofeles | JamGobbar: at least 3 | 02:27 |
| mefistofeles | xD | 02:27 |
| Toadisattva | hey we're number1 | 02:27 |
| Toadisattva | :P | 02:27 |
| JamGobbar | !corona | 02:27 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, also i meant to type "wanting", not "warning", but yeah same | 02:27 |
| CoronaBot | Total cases: 2,330,150 (+81,287), deaths: 160,643 (+6,505), recovered: 596,482. Active cases: 1,573,025, 1,517,760 are in a mild condition, 55,265 are in a serious condition. Mortality: 6.89%, case fatality rate: 21.22%. Case rate: 86,496/24h, death rate: 8,665/24h. Last update: 8m ago. | 02:27 |
| Xip | Toadisattva, We are all stupid ;-) | 02:28 |
| JamGobbar | does it do top 10s? | 02:28 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: ah ok | 02:28 |
| Toadisattva | sure but to gather up in a protest about social distancing | 02:28 |
| Toadisattva | is really truly a special kinda stupid | 02:28 |
| mefistofeles | JamGobbar: you may abuse it in private, fwiw | 02:28 |
| LjL | JamGobbar, i have no idea but if you want to test the bot out a bit do it in PM please | 02:28 |
| JamGobbar | i want to find one that can do top 10 states normalized for capita | 02:29 |
| ryouma | old folk do die in the heat | 02:29 |
| nixonix | https://www.accuweather.com/en/health-wellness/what-infection-rates-in-iceland-and-australia-may-reveal-about-how-covid-19-could-spread-in-the-us/707057 | 02:29 |
| nixonix | %title | 02:29 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix, the URL could not be loaded | 02:29 |
| ryouma | (conspuiracy questionw arning) so is there some political force behind the protests? i have not followed the news. | 02:30 |
| LjL | ryouma, i don't know, but Trump is wanting to reopen, so i have a suspicion or two | 02:30 |
| ryouma | or should i just not ask period because, idk, there is no education in the us or somethign | 02:30 |
| ORB91 | we only need to weaponize this to kill covid pandemic http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/181576176759-0-1/s-l1000.jpg | 02:30 |
| LjL | show of muscles between Trump and Cuomo, too | 02:31 |
| stinkpot | Toadisattva: how's the US doing? | 02:31 |
| JamGobbar | https://nypost.com/2020/04/18/us-has-lower-coronavirus-death-rates-than-europe-trump-says/ | 02:31 |
| LjL | ORB91, first we need to be able to *buy* that | 02:31 |
| LjL | they've been out of stock forever here! | 02:31 |
| stinkpot | how can you say it's stupid because i'll be damned ain't havin a pandemic plus a depression worse than just a pandemic? | 02:31 |
| LjL | not unlike... a few other things | 02:31 |
| ryouma | for a long time there was talk radio in the us. the announcer would have an agenda tot alk about. that agenda would be handed to him or her. its source, allegedly, was things like the political operatives in one of the parties. | 02:31 |
| ORB91 | set phaser to kill | 02:32 |
| JamGobbar | set phaser to overload | 02:32 |
| JamGobbar | loved that, phaser grenades | 02:32 |
| ORB91 | a real world zed shooter | 02:32 |
| Toadisattva | honestly my area is doing great, we've been testing like crazy, our numbers and hospitilzations are very low, most everyone is able to continue business as normal | 02:32 |
| ryouma | yeah we ordered thermometers forever ago. i don't think they will arrive. same with face masks. | 02:33 |
| stinkpot | are you in new york Toadisattva ? | 02:33 |
| Toadisattva | no | 02:33 |
| Toadisattva | I'm over in the intermountain west | 02:33 |
| stinkpot | then where the hell are they testing like crazy | 02:33 |
| LjL | ryouma, i could buy a normal armpit thermometer, although i had to pay it about twice its usual price (i could have bought it at its usual price before, too, and just forgot) | 02:33 |
| stinkpot | i've not heard of any state testing like bonkers except NY | 02:33 |
| ryouma | intermountain? what does that mean? between rockies and sierras? | 02:33 |
| JamGobbar | armpit thermos are normal? | 02:33 |
| Toadisattva | yep | 02:34 |
| stinkpot | nevada or colorado probably | 02:34 |
| JamGobbar | huh | 02:34 |
| stinkpot | small population states | 02:34 |
| JamGobbar | never used an armpit thermo in my life | 02:34 |
| mefistofeles | JamGobbar: really? ha, that's interesting | 02:34 |
| JamGobbar | always in the mouth | 02:34 |
| LjL | that's the same type of thermometer | 02:34 |
| mefistofeles | JamGobbar: US? | 02:34 |
| ryouma | i asked my carer to get 1 for her and 1 for me, different kinds just in case. she ordered 1 kind. i wasn't clear enough about the redundancy idea. her response was "it's a thermometer". | 02:34 |
| JamGobbar | yes | 02:34 |
| mefistofeles | JamGobbar: I see | 02:34 |
| Toadisattva | I think we are doing on the order of 5k tests a day | 02:34 |
| LjL | ideally, washed in between the two kinds of use | 02:34 |
| LjL | although that's not nearly as bad as mixed use of other kinds of thermometers... | 02:35 |
| ORB91 | it work up your ass too | 02:35 |
| JamGobbar | ideally washed in between the same kind of use too! | 02:35 |
| LjL | as i was saying, less directly... | 02:35 |
| mefistofeles | hah | 02:35 |
| mefistofeles | baby style | 02:35 |
| LjL | JamGobbar, not wrong, yeah | 02:35 |
| adventurer | ryouma, you can write your name on them in nikko to stop the spread of germs she will know which is yours | 02:35 |
| LjL | by the way this is a reason (not the only reason) why the "standard" temperatures for what's a fever and what isn't don't make a whole lot of sense | 02:35 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: what do you mean? | 02:36 |
| LjL | temperature is different between armpit, mouth, ear etc | 02:36 |
| ryouma | adventurer: no the point is they might not arrive (or even they might both be from a bad batch). | 02:36 |
| adventurer | ohh | 02:36 |
| adventurer | thta's a good idea in case they read differently | 02:36 |
| ryouma | or ship differently, like from a scammer vs. a non-scammer etc. | 02:36 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, i mean some people have specific ideas on what temperature counts as a fever... they may have been taught those numbers in school, or by parents, and they seem to vary by culture | 02:36 |
| ryouma | where i am they were bragging about having 100 (count 'em!) 100 test kits. i was practically screaming at my monitor. now they are complaining that there are not enough test kits. | 02:37 |
| adventurer | i am not sure how accurate my ear thermometer is even though it was expensive | 02:37 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: ah ok | 02:37 |
| mefistofeles | there's a significant variability in the "normal" temperature | 02:37 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, for me, 37°C is the dividing line between a fever and not, and i think that's common in italy and works well enough for me generally, but i bet if i just started measuring it in my mouth instead of armpit, i may easily get higher than that, and i don't suddenly have a fever. the other thing is people are simply different, so it would be a good idea for people to just know what their baseline temperature is... except it also changes during | 02:38 |
| LjL | the day sooo | 02:38 |
| mefistofeles | I think even up to 1C or more | 02:38 |
| mefistofeles | metabolism also alters it a bit | 02:38 |
| ryouma | my normal temperature is likely really low. it's not clear what you'd calla fever when you are normally several degrees below average. | 02:38 |
| Toadisattva | while it's good our numbers are low and the spread is slow, I'm concerned how many people are still not taking it all seriously | 02:38 |
| LjL | ryouma, several? | 02:38 |
| ORB91 | i call dead | 02:39 |
| Toadisattva | so few people wearing masks and respecting basic social distancing | 02:39 |
| ryouma | LjL: last time i checked was late 1990s when i took a careful log through day for 2mo. i think 95f was common. | 02:39 |
| adventurer | where is that Toadisattva ? | 02:39 |
| ORB91 | the rockys | 02:39 |
| Toadisattva | western US | 02:39 |
| mefistofeles | the less accurate is oral, apparently | 02:39 |
| LjL | ryouma, okay, that's one degree lower in C... sort of unusual to have that as average, but i was thinking like... i dunno | 02:39 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, definitely less accurate if you take it after meals | 02:40 |
| ryouma | there is an ice cream truck outside, in sw us, playing, i kid you not, rudolf the red nosed reindeer. i didn't realize those were considered essential. | 02:40 |
| adventurer | Did you hear about that heat map in the USA that maps where people with high temps are...it's from the info from a thermometer company or something | 02:40 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 02:40 |
| adventurer | maybe could predict outbreaks no joke | 02:40 |
| ryouma | LjL: i did like waking, etc. | 02:40 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, or after drinking for that matter. but even if you measure it without biases and accurately, it is just different from temperatures in other places | 02:40 |
| adventurer | we need this in AU | 02:41 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: yeah, I always do the axillary way, bh | 02:41 |
| LjL | ryouma, you make a law that says food is okay, you get icecream. people be people | 02:41 |
| mefistofeles | tbh* | 02:41 |
| Toadisattva | how do the thermometer companies have that data? are our thermometers transmitting data back or something? | 02:41 |
| stinkpot | i hope you're not drinking too much limoncello these days ljl | 02:41 |
| ryouma | LjL: i guess | 02:41 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, the... what? | 02:41 |
| mefistofeles | most accurate is rectal, of course | 02:42 |
| adventurer | what if we just rolled out thermometers to people and where they read high in the country we do some sentinel testing bingo....get on top of any outbreaks ASAP | 02:42 |
| LjL | stinkpot, i had a bit of a stomach upset when i drank it the other day, and... again tonight ;( | 02:42 |
| mefistofeles | Oral and axillary temperature readings are about ½° to 1°F (.3°C to .6°C) below rectal. | 02:42 |
| stinkpot | why would rectal be most accurate for a upper respiratory infection | 02:42 |
| Xip | adventurer, Temp here and there, it doesn't really matter that much. Focus on becoming healthy, we will all get the virus | 02:42 |
| stinkpot | i would assume the upper part of your body would be hotter than the lower part | 02:42 |
| mefistofeles | stinkpot: fever is not really something localized | 02:42 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: 65 Percent of U.S. Adults Say POTUS Was Too Slow to Respond to COVID-19 Outbreak: Poll (10568 votes) | https://redd.it/g3ujpn | 02:42 |
| stinkpot | oh ljl please be careful and eat more crackers with the alcohol | 02:42 |
| LjL | stinkpot, it's not about what's most accurate for a specific infection, we're talking in general... | 02:42 |
| Xip | adventurer, You should make sure to have a good PH level | 02:43 |
| ryouma | if only drinkable alcohol were strong enough to be a disinfectant | 02:43 |
| ORB91 | how? | 02:43 |
| Toadisattva | it dies above ph 11, just drink some lye | 02:43 |
| Toadisattva | :P | 02:43 |
| adventurer | if you waant to stop the spread you have to find where the virus is...number one symptom is high temp now one or two people with a high temp could be anything but if you have data arround the country and one area suddenly has the people's temps rising maybe get in there and do some testing | 02:43 |
| adventurer | just a though | 02:43 |
| LjL | ryouma, don't give people ideas... which a few of them already had ;( | 02:43 |
| adventurer | Xip, what's Ph level got to do with anything? | 02:43 |
| Toadisattva | China has public infrared thermometers | 02:44 |
| mefistofeles | wait, but some of the alcoholic drinks can be | 02:44 |
| adventurer | you know the heat map in USA?? I will find it | 02:44 |
| mefistofeles | the really strong ones | 02:44 |
| Toadisattva | hitting everyone getting on the train | 02:44 |
| LjL | adventurer, not sure about the merits of the idea, but rolling remote-reading thermometers like that to the whole population would be nontrivial even during non-emergency times | 02:44 |
| adventurer | they already have a heat map for this in USA!! | 02:45 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, well in China i gather the average day now tends to involve multiple thermometer readings. like, quite a few. | 02:45 |
| Butterfly^ | https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/colorado-meatpacking-plant-waited-8-days-before-shutting-down-after-first-of-four-employees-died-from-covid-19-report/ Title: Colorado meatpacking plant waited 8 days before shutting down after first of four employees died from COVID-19: report | 02:45 |
| ORB91 | theres an app for that | 02:45 |
| Toadisattva | yeah | 02:45 |
| Toadisattva | yeah they have the tracking app too | 02:45 |
| Toadisattva | meanwhile they still don't have a handle on the virus | 02:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 00:23 UTC: worldnews: Coronavirus: Frontline National Health Service staff deserve £29-per-day bonus, say Liberal Democrats - Party also calls on UK government to pay funeral fees for those who die while fighting Covid-19 → https://is.gd/P1VYUt | 02:46 |
| ORB91 | cause they wash alot | 02:46 |
| adventurer | i think...unless i am mistaken | 02:46 |
| Toadisattva | taiwan on the other hand, no authoritarian crackdown, and they got it under control have enough supplies and are assisting other countries | 02:46 |
| Toadisattva | granted taiwan is a much smaller country | 02:46 |
| mefistofeles | Toadisattva: Germany | 02:46 |
| adventurer | Toadisattva, does USA have the tracking app? | 02:47 |
| Toadisattva | no | 02:47 |
| Xip | adventurer, PH level is very important to maintain a good immune system. A simple glass of water with baking soda can help. It's why, and trust me, I've been a terrible alcoholicm myself.. it does wonders for your health almost right away. It's also why quinine even works for this virus. The malaria medicine. Malaria is not a virus, it's a parasite. It helps your body to function. I might be talking shit though. | 02:47 |
| ORB91 | chinese apps are the best | 02:47 |
| Toadisattva | murikans are way too paranoid for all that, we'd probably end up tracking down and shooting the infected | 02:47 |
| ORB91 | thats what i was saying | 02:48 |
| adventurer | yeah true Toadisattva | 02:48 |
| Xip | adventurer, I wouldn't do extracts from the bark personally, but I got it in my storage, just in case though. | 02:48 |
| adventurer | i mean maybe not to that extent but i can see how it could quickly be bad for innocent people | 02:48 |
| Xip | adventurer, But I'm also a prepper. | 02:48 |
| Xip | adventurer, The normal level is around 7.35 I think anyway, PH, get a test and check where you at, it's a very cheap test | 02:49 |
| ORB91 | so you got gun? | 02:49 |
| mefistofeles | Xip: technically Malaria is a disease, the Plasmodium is the parasite :) | 02:49 |
| ORB91 | parasitoses | 02:50 |
| mefistofeles | btw, if you don't know already (this has been circulating for days now) free boks from Springer https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HzdumNltTj2SHmCv3SRdoub8SvpIEn75fa4Q23x0keU/htmlview?fbclid=IwAR10EFL8JMRtaqfbx8f3ccEFu5hs-XGxChRNcYxs1N3Z_ztAG2F3eEblkvw | 02:50 |
| mefistofeles | there are some good ones, I recommend at least the Linear Algebra Done Right... and the Elements of statistical learning | 02:51 |
| Xip | If you party hard you got to maintain the PH level, if I didn't not sure if I would be even alive, but I could be wrong | 02:51 |
| Xip | Helps with the metabolism | 02:51 |
| ORB91 | PHD? | 02:52 |
| LjL | if you "party hard" in a way that would get your pH out of balance in a life-threatening way, i suggest you stop doing that | 02:52 |
| LjL | ORB91, are you just interjecting silly comments? | 02:52 |
| mefistofeles | haha | 02:52 |
| ORB91 | PHD pary hard | 02:52 |
| mefistofeles | ORB91: sleep dprived? | 02:52 |
| ryouma | what channel is that? --- 17:48 <Xip> adventurer, But I'm also a prepper. | 02:52 |
| Xip | ryouma, What do you mean? | 02:52 |
| ryouma | irc channel | 02:53 |
| ryouma | for that | 02:53 |
| ryouma | i just tried ##prepper etc. and not exist seemingly | 02:53 |
| LjL | ##prepping does | 02:53 |
| ORB91 | hes a gun nut | 02:53 |
| Toadisattva | preppers be feeling pretty smug right now | 02:53 |
| LjL | ORB91, you don't know that. you're assuming and making random silly comments. please stop doing that. | 02:54 |
| Xip | ryouma, Yeah you can join ##prepping but it is not very active anymore | 02:54 |
| Toadisattva | be like I got enough canned beans to not hit the grocery store for 6 years | 02:54 |
| Toadisattva | :P | 02:54 |
| adventurer | I am not a prepper but interested in knowing ideas from everyone. I wouldn't have the money to be much of a prepper in any case. | 02:54 |
| mefistofeles | Toadisattva: why? though | 02:54 |
| Xip | ryouma, We are a few there, ask away if it's anything you want to know | 02:54 |
| ORB91 | also gas for 6 years | 02:54 |
| ORB91 | oir gaz | 02:55 |
| ryouma | Xip: thanks but i doubt they know where i can get kleenex :) | 02:55 |
| Toadisattva | I wish I had taken up prepping better before this | 02:55 |
| ryouma | but i joined and will listen | 02:55 |
| Toadisattva | and I certainly will keep a better stock after this | 02:55 |
| ryouma | i tried to warn my carer what was coming, but she didn't believe me, so ... | 02:55 |
| ubLIX | Butterfly^: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/raw-story/ - originating DB source might have been slightly better - https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-beast/ | 02:55 |
| LjL | i do believe there is a middle ground between "hardcore prepping" and denying this disease was going to be a life-affecting issue until it was too late to prepare for that at least a bit | 02:56 |
| adventurer | What country are you in ryouma ? | 02:56 |
| ryouma | us | 02:56 |
| adventurer | we can still go to the shops here which is good | 02:56 |
| Toadisattva | i did stock up enough food to last me several months pretty early first time I started noticing the shelves dwindling at the stores | 02:56 |
| Butterfly^ | ubLIX : every single news source on the planet has bias, as long as reporters are writing the news, there's going to be bias in some way or another | 02:56 |
| adventurer | or bad depending on your point of view | 02:56 |
| Xip | ryouma, Since you joined the other channel just ask in there | 02:57 |
| ryouma | LjL: i was too middle ground apparently | 02:57 |
| Toadisattva | try to avoid being in stores as much as possible right now, still have to go sometimes but keep it minimal | 02:57 |
| ORB91 | prepper aka hoarder | 02:57 |
| mefistofeles | it is too specific on reagion and country, tbh | 02:57 |
| mefistofeles | there's no simple rule | 02:57 |
| LjL | ryouma, nah, it might have been worse if you had insisted more, for all we know | 02:57 |
| mefistofeles | I never prepared, not a tiny bit, for this | 02:57 |
| stinkpot | anyone know how to change the 'net_ping_timeout' setting in hexchat? | 02:57 |
| Butterfly^ | ubLIX : it's even extremely hard to write AI to write news articles without bias, they'll be trained by algorithms and will have bias in them based on which sources they've been trained with | 02:57 |
| LjL | ORB91, i feel for now i've just made the point that you're making unhelpful silly comments enough times | 02:57 |
| Xip | mefistofeles, No one prepped for this | 02:57 |
| ryouma | LjL: yeah | 02:58 |
| mefistofeles | Xip: I deliberately didn't, though | 02:58 |
| Xip | mefistofeles, We don't even know what it is yet | 02:58 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, I didn't feel I needed it | 02:58 |
| stinkpot | i prepped for it but got the wrong stuff. i didn't realize it was going to be toilet paper and kleenex that would be hard to find | 02:58 |
| stinkpot | the goal of prepping is to predict what the rare items will be | 02:58 |
| stinkpot | not to get the bare necessities necessarily | 02:58 |
| Xip | mefistofeles, Hope for the best, expect the worst, like they say | 02:58 |
| Butterfly^ | ubLIX : if you want unbiased news? what you gotta do is compare dozens of news sources, and even in that case, there's going to be bias, your own bias, there's going to be sources that you don't trust as much as others, so you'll still end up with bias | 02:58 |
| stinkpot | it turns out beans and rice, while bare necessities, are not important because those don't get sold out | 02:59 |
| mefistofeles | Xip: yeah, the best and the worst vary a lot depending on many specifics | 02:59 |
| ubLIX | Butterfly^: not my point exactly. facts in the service of one's bias is better than invention. i'm just saying the RW source pretty much obliges the reader to look elsewhere for corroboration, whereas the DB source might be taken at face value | 02:59 |
| Toadisattva | I doubt there will be anyone in the world without a box of n95 in the cabinet once stocks allow them to be released to the public again | 02:59 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 02:59 |
| mefistofeles | for example, I never got why peple hoarded toilet paper, that was just stupid and massive dementia or something | 02:59 |
| ryouma | actually rice and rice cookers did get sold out here | 02:59 |
| Toadisattva | yeah the toilet paper thing is weird | 02:59 |
| stinkpot | because you only use two squares of TP mefistofeles | 02:59 |
| stinkpot | you never realized other ppl use like 12 squares at a time | 03:00 |
| Toadisattva | I saw the empty tp shelves shrugged and was glad i got a bidet and went and raided the frozen vegetables | 03:00 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 03:00 |
| mefistofeles | We (wit room mates) haven't bought a single toiler paper roll, and we still have plenty xD | 03:00 |
| mefistofeles | *with | 03:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:51 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump warns of consequences if China 'knowingly responsible' for pandemic: US president says he doesn’t believe China or Iran death tolls; Europe fatalities approach 100,000; Spanish PM seeks lockdown extension. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 03:00 |
| stinkpot | strange. you guys must eat a lot of veggies | 03:00 |
| ynhof[m] | Yeah here everything sold. Flour, pasta, ... Lol but they might have slowed down shelf restocking to prevent enabling further panic buying | 03:00 |
| Butterfly^ | ubLIX : i strongly think that people should indeed look at multiple sources to get a better understanding, once someone relies on one source only, they'll be blasted with some bias one way or another, as long as reporters are writing our news, you'll see some kind of bias in each and every article based on the reporter's view of things | 03:00 |
| Toadisattva | muh immune system is strok veggies all day | 03:00 |
| LjL | https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bidet ← just saying | 03:01 |
| mefistofeles | ↑ also that | 03:01 |
| ynhof[m] | Yeah i need that, but a portable version I can take to campus | 03:01 |
| Toadisattva | what has been disconcerting is that reddit has been a more accurate and helpful source of information than all the mainstram news outlets, governments, and literal organizations who job it is to address these things | 03:01 |
| mefistofeles | but it's one of these things that you heard the stupid news on people hoarding something, then even more people will hoard thinking others are doing it for good reasons | 03:02 |
| stinkpot | how the hell could they sell out of pasta? | 03:02 |
| mefistofeles | like a "fomo" effect even | 03:02 |
| ubLIX | Butterfly^: will you allow that my point here was that DB is generally well sourced and RS is generally not, and that for that reason, our esteemed scroll would have been better served by the DB version? | 03:02 |
| Toadisattva | reddit had me like wear a mask 2 months ago, cdc didn't announce you should cover your face till like a week ago | 03:02 |
| stinkpot | you'd think european countries would have a national stockpile of pasta | 03:02 |
| ynhof[m] | Nearly every shop had no pasta on shelves | 03:02 |
| LjL | pasta's not sold out here | 03:02 |
| mefistofeles | not sold out here, either | 03:02 |
| LjL | i'm in the "epicenter" (sorry those who hate the term!) of this thing in europe... and i can get all sorts of pasta | 03:03 |
| Toadisattva | I didn't even check the pasta | 03:03 |
| LjL | i mean, getting groceries in general is hard, but not because we're out of anything in particular, just the logistics given the lockdown | 03:03 |
| mefistofeles | just jk | 03:03 |
| stinkpot | if your country runs out of beans/rice/pasta you shoudl seriously think about emigrating | 03:03 |
| Toadisattva | or growing :) | 03:04 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, most don't realize that the lack of supplies in supermarkets is mostly because of restrictions not because of scarcity | 03:04 |
| stinkpot | oh that makes sense actually | 03:04 |
| Butterfly^ | ubLIX : i think people should never take any source at face value, people should always keep questioning things and investigate further, yes, some source might be more credible than others, but once we trust one source blindfully, the source on itself could become less trust worthy over time | 03:04 |
| ryouma | i think any product could run out, becuase positive feedback. it sohuld stablizie, but if there is a meme going around that everybody is gogn to keep getting a lot of it, then some willthinkt hey ahve to also just to have a little and they erro ont he side of getting more than they need sometimes. | 03:04 |
| ynhof[m] | Lol its just cause I am in the center of a large city so it is easy to run out and they probably have a warehouse that has constantly supply the supermarket | 03:04 |
| mefistofeles | these supermarkets commonly have weeks or months of reserve, specially on the non-perishable goods | 03:04 |
| LjL | ryouma, yes, that's what i think happened with toilet paper, because really, there was never a production shortage afaik, not even close | 03:05 |
| Toadisattva | really you can get most anything here if you go early enough even TP and hand sanitizer | 03:05 |
| LjL | ryouma, other things... masks... i get it | 03:05 |
| ubLIX | Butterfly^: i just want everything posted here to be well sourced | 03:05 |
| LjL | *even*! | 03:05 |
| Toadisattva | the things you can't get are bleach masks gloves | 03:05 |
| ynhof[m] | But they probably delayed the warehouse supply chain because of panic stockpiling (ppl buying enough fornuclear winter etc) | 03:05 |
| mefistofeles | ynhof[m]: yes, that's a good move | 03:06 |
| Toadisattva | you've seen all the reports of them shutting down the assholes who tried to buy up all the TP and profiteer on it? | 03:06 |
| Toadisattva | ppl trying to return hundreds of packages at grocery stores kuz their ebay stores got shut down | 03:06 |
| mefistofeles | in some latin americans countries they won't let people buy more than an specified quantity of a product | 03:07 |
| Toadisattva | getting denied hard and called out for being the asshats they are | 03:07 |
| ubLIX | Butterfly^: and to not have to go down a rabbit hole every time someone posts something that isn't; even just for the time-saving aspect: i kinda have to rabbit hole every link posted | 03:07 |
| Toadisattva | yeah they are limiting quantities in US grocery stores now | 03:07 |
| Toadisattva | 1 tp per person | 03:07 |
| Toadisattva | 1 hand sanitizer per person | 03:07 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, that's also true here now, at least when ordering online, but i think also in the actual store | 03:07 |
| Toadisattva | most of the food stuff they aren't | 03:07 |
| Butterfly^ | ubLIX : sometimes links are posted in a way like "look at this thing, and dig deep, research it" | 03:07 |
| LjL | it's about the food here. toilet paper isn't an issue, and hand sanitizer just... isn't | 03:07 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: well, yes, been going on for weeks now in some latin american countries, without even having many cases | 03:07 |
| LjL | (actually hand sanitizer can be obtained from pharmacies, just their own house-made) | 03:08 |
| mefistofeles | they just know people would take advantage of that | 03:08 |
| ubLIX | Butterfly^: I surrender \o/ | 03:08 |
| mefistofeles | aslo, Italy is not that different sometimes ;) | 03:08 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, oh Italy always manages to be "different" in some way or other | 03:08 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, but i really got kind of mad when they made the first lockdown law... partly at the lockdown itself, kneejerk reaction, but partly about... why didn't they include rules for supermarkets to limit quantities of things? yes, the law was rushed out, but well, it shouldn't need to be, there should be something ready for a pandemic (if only!). and secondly, it only takes hiring a sociologist or two, instead of paying yourselves (as in: | 03:10 |
| LjL | politicians) way too much in wages, for them to tell you that people will hoard things | 03:10 |
| Toadisattva | yeah I'm suprised they let the panic buying go on in the first place | 03:11 |
| Toadisattva | the first time you had someone show up with 2 cartloads of TP, they shoulda been like hold on a | 03:11 |
| adventurer | It really is like a 1984 dystopia. People in USA demanding their freedom to go back to work nonstop in the middle of the outbreak of a deadly disease. Freedom is slavery. | 03:12 |
| Toadisattva | ignorance is strength! | 03:12 |
| nb | it was 2oz bottles for $2.99 and limit 4 | 03:14 |
| Toadisattva | I got some the other day, they werel limiting 1 per person it was $1.99 decent sized bottle maybe 16 oz? | 03:14 |
| Toadisattva | I wear gloves though so I just use alcohol to clean my gloves | 03:15 |
| Toadisattva | or bleach | 03:15 |
| Toadisattva | which is why not being able to find alcohol or bleach is frustrating | 03:15 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 03:15 |
| adventurer | I got a massive container with a pump action thing $10. it's going to last a while | 03:16 |
| nb | i finally found isopropyl alcohol today also | 03:16 |
| nb | 2 32oz bottles for $3.99 at costco | 03:16 |
| adventurer | yea it was 70 vv | 03:16 |
| nb | walmart is always out | 03:16 |
| Xip | Maybe relevant hee too, wrote this in another channel, for anyone that wants the formulas, actually nice PDF to have | 03:16 |
| Toadisattva | oh man i'm scared to go near costco | 03:16 |
| Hoffman | adventurer: I got a pump action thing too | 03:16 |
| Xip | https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf | 03:16 |
| Toadisattva | people always lined up outside | 03:16 |
| Hoffman | adventurer: but it cost me $240 | 03:16 |
| Toadisattva | 90% got no masks | 03:16 |
| Toadisattva | not respecting social distancing at all | 03:17 |
| nb | Toadisattva, my costco was not very busy | 03:17 |
| nb | no line | 03:17 |
| Toadisattva | our costcos are | 03:17 |
| adventurer | haha i am talking of hand sanitizer ;P someone awesome decided to package and sell it bulk and not ridiculously expensively in the shop i finally found. whoever did that is awesome | 03:18 |
| Xip | Basically ethanol+glycerol+hydrogen peroxide, it's a pretty common formula and it works | 03:18 |
| Xip | And it cost jack shit, so save your money, make your own | 03:18 |
| adventurer | yeah that's the WHO formula Xip sounds like it | 03:18 |
| Toadisattva | our local distillaries are making hand sanitizer as well | 03:18 |
| nb | Xip, there's a distillery in my town that decided to make hand sanitizer with that formula | 03:18 |
| nb | i've heard of a lot of them doing that | 03:18 |
| Toadisattva | can get it at some local pharmacies and suck | 03:18 |
| Toadisattva | such* | 03:18 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 03:18 |
| ynhof[m] | I like the documentation provided by the US gov however. CDC, EPA and FDA cover info on difference between disinfectants and antiseptics quite well | 03:19 |
| Xip | nb, Nice! Well it can be used to clean.. pretty much anything, it's a nice formula, it's not just a hand sanitizer | 03:21 |
| nb | yeah | 03:22 |
| adventurer | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7121658/ | 03:22 |
| adventurer | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(20)30003-3/fulltext | 03:22 |
| Xip | I love hydrogen peroxide, I did a nose job a few years back, a lot of drugs... heh, so uhm.. I got an infection in my sinus | 03:22 |
| Xip | And I got this trick from somewhere, not sure who told me it or whatever, but whenever it gets really bad | 03:22 |
| Xip | You take some hydrogen peroxide with salt water and you pour it through your nose with those netipots | 03:23 |
| Xip | I thought was going insane, I couldn't get rid of that bug, whatever it was | 03:23 |
| jester | https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf | 03:23 |
| Xip | Another cool thing with hydrogen peroxide is if you get a staph infection, which can actually be really dangerous | 03:26 |
| ryouma | i ahve a staph infection in my nasopharynx and another place | 03:26 |
| ryouma | nasopharyngeal swab confirmed | 03:27 |
| Xip | If you get it on your skin you can just swap with just hydrogen peroxide, it'll just go away | 03:27 |
| danielp3344 | while we get to complain about medical problems, I have a really annoying sinus infection. | 03:28 |
| danielp3344 | Causing random headaches :/ | 03:28 |
| Xip | danielp3344, Then do what I said | 03:28 |
| danielp3344 | ehhhhhh IDK about that | 03:28 |
| Xip | danielp3344, Let me get a recipe for that | 03:28 |
| danielp3344 | Also I used all my hydrogen peroxide for rocket fuel anyway | 03:28 |
| ynhof[m] | :o | 03:29 |
| Xip | danielp3344, No no no.. Just 3% peroxide and a tiny bit with salt water and you use a thing like this, I will show you | 03:29 |
| danielp3344 | Xip: well I assumed you didn't mean high test H2O2 or anything lol | 03:30 |
| danielp3344 | that stuff causes really nasty burns | 03:30 |
| danielp3344 | trust me | 03:30 |
| Xip | danielp3344, Haha yeah.. Hold on | 03:30 |
| ynhof[m] | Yeh we poured that down the sink once by accident. Sink feels a little thinner in the metal basin now, lol | 03:31 |
| Xip | danielp3344, https://earthclinic.com/ailments/sinus-infection-natural-remedies/hydrogen-peroxide-sea-salt/ | 03:31 |
| danielp3344 | yn×hof: where'd you get it? | 03:31 |
| Xip | danielp3344, Look at the reviews there, I don't make it up | 03:31 |
| danielp3344 | Nobody wants to sell me any really concentrated stuff | 03:31 |
| Xip | danielp3344, It works, I had a really bad one, for almost a year | 03:31 |
| ynhof[m] | Cleaning supplier supplies it to wholesale manufacturers | 03:31 |
| LjL | i caused myself things that looked too much like burns even with just 3% H2O2 | 03:32 |
| Xip | danielp3344, So just check the recipe there | 03:32 |
| ynhof[m] | It was for industrial purposes | 03:32 |
| danielp3344 | Xip: cloudflare | 03:32 |
| danielp3344 | yn×hof: do you know where I could get some? | 03:32 |
| danielp3344 | (Without trying to distill the %3 stuff) | 03:32 |
| ynhof[m] | No Idk how the usa deals with it | 03:32 |
| danielp3344 | heh | 03:32 |
| ynhof[m] | But we have still 20gal of 90 or 95% at home | 03:33 |
| danielp3344 | holy cow | 03:33 |
| danielp3344 | try building a jet pack with that lol | 03:33 |
| ynhof[m] | It really makes ceramics sweat when you clean em | 03:33 |
| danielp3344 | yn×hof: try pouring a tiny bit on some silver :P | 03:34 |
| danielp3344 | (a really tiny bit) | 03:34 |
| Xip | danielp3344, Anyway, trust me on this, you'll thank me later | 03:34 |
| Xip | "To complete the treatment, mix six ounces of warm filtered water with 1/2 teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide and 1 teaspoon of sea salt. Allow the salt to dissolve into the solution, and insert the solution into a nasal sprayer or neti pot. Leaning over the sink, slowly pour the solution into the nose and allow it to drain through the mouth." | 03:34 |
| danielp3344 | Xip: gross | 03:34 |
| Xip | Well it'll work, it's science. | 03:34 |
| danielp3344 | lol | 03:34 |
| danielp3344 | I just had a rocket engine explode in my face, we'll see if that helped | 03:35 |
| danielp3344 | It sure messed up my lungs lol | 03:35 |
| Xip | Up to you anyway, I wouldn't say this if it wasn't true | 03:35 |
| danielp3344 | Xip: how should I know?! | 03:35 |
| ynhof[m] | Pics or didnt happen :P | 03:35 |
| danielp3344 | yn×hof: I mean, I have pics of the charred spot where it happened | 03:36 |
| danielp3344 | or rather, could take them | 03:36 |
| ynhof[m] | Also xips advice is very good. Even warm salt water could be a good start | 03:36 |
| danielp3344 | I don't really feel like pouring anything in my nose thanks | 03:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:33 UTC: Coronavirus tests were delayed by contamination at CDC lab, report says: A delay by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in quickly making coronavirus test kits available was the result of "a glaring scientific breakdown" at the CDC's central lab, The Washington Post reported. → https://is.gd/ZYVgMQ | 03:36 |
| LjL | Xip, et al | 03:38 |
| LjL | we really should remember that this channel cannot give medical advice | 03:39 |
| LjL | "trust me it's science" - not | 03:39 |
| monkers | is CoronaBot down ? | 03:39 |
| LjL | it's a path FRAUGHT, Spec, with many dangers | 03:39 |
| monkers | nm | 03:39 |
| LjL | like for instance, even if that "recipe" is mostly okay, "warm filtered water" - how filtered? did you know that some people have actually died from doing nose rinses with tap water? | 03:40 |
| LjL | others do them with saline or boiled water and probably risk less, but then, if i said "use boiled water" i'd expect SOME small percentage of people to actually pour boiling water into their nostrils | 03:40 |
| Xip | Sorry, don't filter it, boil it. Look how clumpsy I am. | 03:40 |
| ubLIX | i'm looking | 03:41 |
| ubLIX | closely | 03:41 |
| LjL | remember when Trump kept praising choloquine, and the a couple of people died because they just bought the first thing that said chlroquine and drank it? | 03:41 |
| ubLIX | i want my voodoo doll to be a good likeness | 03:41 |
| Xip | LjL, I've done what I'm saying personally, not just once, I've done it a few times, over the years, it works and it is not dangerous | 03:42 |
| LjL | that does not meet the definition of something that is not dangerous | 03:42 |
| LjL | and it also otherwise doesn't cover the dangers of conveying medical information over the internet | 03:43 |
| LjL | plus, add things like "trust me, you'll thank me later" and that makes my head scream NO NO NO | 03:43 |
| Xip | LjL, Well it's not anyway, it's a ridiculous small amount of hydrogen peroxide, it is not dangerous | 03:44 |
| ubLIX | *voodoo doll construction intensifies* | 03:44 |
| Xip | LjL, But either way, I get what you mean, I'll say nothing, just tried to help the guy | 03:44 |
| Xip | I had a really bad infection and it helped me, that is all | 03:45 |
| LjL | Xip, it's easy enough to say "i did this, blah blah, i think it's okay but if you want to try do double check it" | 03:45 |
| LjL | many lawsuits avoided | 03:45 |
| Xip | I'm a gambler, what can I say, I've been sued a few times | 03:45 |
| Xip | Anyway. It's not dangerous, but don't take my word for it, you will have to do your own research | 03:46 |
| Xip | So let's leave it at that, I am only making a suggestion | 03:46 |
| Xip | Start with basic salt water, skip the hydrogen peroxide, it may be enough | 03:46 |
| jester | 500000 if you take out trump | 03:46 |
| Xip | And don't just filter it, boil it | 03:46 |
| ubLIX | "Anyway, trust me on this, you'll thank me later" | 03:47 |
| LjL | Xip, don't give instructions ffs | 03:48 |
| LjL | that's what i'm saying | 03:48 |
| LjL | say what you're doing, if anything | 03:48 |
| LjL | don't tell people what to do | 03:48 |
| Xip | Lol, if you somehow die by taking a half teaspon of hydrogen peroxide in six ounces of water and pour it a netipot, then God help you | 03:49 |
| LjL | that is not okay, it's not just you who may get in trouble from it, but me too if i allow it | 03:49 |
| Xip | 3% hydrogen peroxide | 03:49 |
| LjL | if you die and God exists, then yeah, God help you in general | 03:49 |
| LjL | but i don't see how that's either here or there | 03:49 |
| Xip | Alright well sorry | 03:49 |
| Xip | Don't get why this is even a big deal, I just made a recommendation | 03:50 |
| ynhof[m] | Also sorry <--- | 03:50 |
| ubLIX | jester: do not incite murder, even in jest | 03:50 |
| LjL | whois jester | 03:51 |
| LjL | oh good grief | 03:51 |
| ubLIX | Xip: take a 24 hour break | 03:54 |
| LjL | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rainews.it%2Ftgr%2Ftagesschau%2Farticoli%2F2020%2F04%2Ftag-Coronavirus-Lungeschaden-Forschung-Uniklinik-Innsbruck-6708e11e-28dc-4843-a760-e7f926ace61c.html | 04:03 |
| LjL | > Among them were six active divers, all of whom did not have to be treated in hospital, but cured themselves in home quarantines. All of them were not severe cases, their illnesses were five to six weeks ago and they are considered to have recovered. | 04:03 |
| LjL | > "They didn't get any better at all in imaging," said Hartig. "As an emergency doctor with 20 years of experience, you swallow when you see something like this in a 40-year-old patient." | 04:03 |
| LjL | > "After a Covid infection, even if you have only mild symptoms, you should definitely have a dive doctor examine you thoroughly, even if you still have an upright medical examination," said Hartig. | 04:04 |
| ryouma | we could use vaccines right about now | 04:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:58 UTC: (news): Global coronavirus cases top 2.3 million as pandemic forces businesses to shift plans → https://is.gd/acat85 | 04:05 |
| LjL | > "If you give them two liters of oxygen, the oxygen saturation will get a little better, but a few hours later, many of them are in the intensive care unit with intubation and severe lung failure," said the doctor. Many doctors feel that oxygen triggers cascades. | 04:06 |
| LjL | okay, yikes | 04:06 |
| ryouma | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 | 04:06 |
| LjL | i know :\ | 04:07 |
| LjL | what the hell | 04:07 |
| ryouma | i heard there were 2 phases. you get sick, it's not too bad, you get better, then you get sicker with possible cytokine storm. if this is true and it might not be, then which phase does this refer to. | 04:07 |
| ryouma | why would the oxygen do that | 04:07 |
| ryouma | at only 2lpm even | 04:08 |
| LjL | i don't know | 04:08 |
| LjL | i've heard about the "phases" thing | 04:08 |
| LjL | not sure how much is anecdotal | 04:08 |
| LjL | not sure how much is anecdotal in this article either | 04:08 |
| ryouma | it's like a few days phase 1 then a few days better then phase 2 | 04:08 |
| LjL | it's not like a study, just a doctor saying hey beware of this | 04:08 |
| ryouma | yeah | 04:09 |
| LjL | but still let me say, what the FUCK | 04:09 |
| LjL | now the whole thing of even using the oxygen concentrator goes back to... do i do it, or is it death if i do it? | 04:09 |
| LjL | but i guess that's why you had several exclamation marks | 04:09 |
| Toadisattva | there is some good research on the mechanisms behind the cytokine storm and the inflammasone pathways | 04:11 |
| Toadisattva | hopefully we can put it to good use in preventing that second phase | 04:11 |
| Toadisattva | hopefully those ace-2 inhibitors prevent it from even getting into the first phase | 04:12 |
| LjL | it is not clear to me that anyone knows what they're doing. not saying it in a dismissive way, just if we don't even know anymore if giving oxygen is good in patients with respiratory insufficiency... | 04:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:06 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports a record high of 942 new cases: Singapore added another 942 new coronavirus cases bringing the total number of cases in the city-state to 5,992. → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 04:12 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, some of the ACE2 "stuff", and i specifically refrain from calling them inhibitors, blockers or ARBs or something else because at this point i've completely lost track, were tentatively shown to be good, then tentatively shown to be actually quite bad | 04:13 |
| LjL | and this sort of thing seems like a bit of a leitmotif | 04:13 |
| ryouma | i wonder if we know wheether steroids are good or bad, in normals or in those with wheezing | 04:14 |
| ryouma | cdc advice is "if you do inhalers then keep doing them" but they are just not a trustworthy source | 04:16 |
| ryouma | at least last i checked that is what they said | 04:16 |
| ryouma | but 2lpm -- and yet they put people on ventilators | 04:16 |
| LjL | ryouma, "don't stop doing what you're doing" is pretty standard advice in these cases, because if nothing else, chances are someone will get into trouble by stopping their therapy... oevr a COVID infection they may or may not get | 04:17 |
| LjL | but also, when things in research are as tentative as "hey we've found X may help, or, also, kill you"... maybe keeping the status quo is indeed best | 04:18 |
| ryouma | idr whether it was after getting covid or not | 04:18 |
| ryouma | yeah who knows | 04:18 |
| ryouma | science needed | 04:18 |
| LjL | ryouma, what's a bit scary (well, among a few other things) is that in "normal" circumstances, if you got something as serious as COVID, doctors may still be pretty clueless, but i figure you'd get looked at and if you're taking medications, including inhalers, they'd try to observe their effect on you, and change recommendations accordingly | 04:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:07 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump warns of consequences if China 'knowingly responsible' for pandemic: US president says he doesn’t believe China or Iran death tolls; Europe fatalities approach 100,000; Spanish PM seeks lockdown extension. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 04:19 |
| ryouma | well i am going to start my 170usd inhaler now that it is supposedly decontaminated | 04:19 |
| LjL | but now, people who are "self-isolating at home with no symptoms or mild symptoms", as the italian press conference rote-repeat, are... on their own | 04:20 |
| LjL | (even the ones in hospital are probably a lot on their own) | 04:20 |
| ryouma | right | 04:20 |
| ubLIX | LjL: the AAAS article I linked earlier went into supposed vascular effects, and suggested that the tiny blood vessels taking up oxygen from alveoli might be failing, more so than the fluid filled alveoli, possibly explaining sudden rapid decline. Ventilating the lungs in such a case might make no difference. | 04:20 |
| tinwhiskers | offloop should be a lot faster now. Still need to fix the groups and populations for regions but it's a start. | 04:20 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, nice, thanks, it was definitely rather slow lately | 04:21 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, the covidly data totally overwhelmed the csv library so I've done away with that | 04:22 |
| tinwhiskers | (the csv library, that is, not the covidly data) | 04:22 |
| LjL | so i'm losing my feed? | 04:22 |
| tinwhiskers | no, you're already avoiding the csv library now (but it's still generating csv output) | 04:23 |
| tinwhiskers | no change there | 04:23 |
| LjL | ah | 04:23 |
| Toadisattva | at least the social distancing is slowing the spread and giving us time to keep pumpking out the new research | 04:25 |
| Toadisattva | I'm pretty impressed with the collaboration of the global research community on this, it's truly unprecedented | 04:26 |
| ryouma | this seems key to me | 04:29 |
| ryouma | not enough is said about slowing the spread being needed just for science and medical staff to learn | 04:30 |
| Toadisattva | oh crap | 04:48 |
| Toadisattva | earlier I was asking about HVAC spreading it | 04:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 02:45 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The New York Times su Twitter: "The U.S. isn't doing nearly enough coronavirus testing to safely reopen, new estimates by Harvard University researchers suggest — in fact, it will take 3 times as much testing over the next month. Here's why — and a look at which states are most behind. https://t.co/Yy8NomkVyl" → https://is.gd/HMtJUY | 04:48 |
| Toadisattva | just found this: COVID-19 Outbreak Associated with Air Conditioning in Restaurant, Guangzhou, China | 04:48 |
| Toadisattva | - https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0764_article | 04:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:58 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global deaths top 160,000; Singapore reports record 942 new cases: The total number of deaths related to the new coronavirus has reached 160,518, according to the latest data from Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 05:03 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: In 1918, there was an anti-mask league in San Francisco, which objected to wearing masks to prevent the spread of influenza. They held meetings of thousands of maskless people. San Francisco was ultimately was one of the cities that suffered most from the Spanish Influenza pandemic (11020 votes) | https://redd.it/g3wily | 05:06 |
| Toadisattva | wow so they had the dumbs 100 years ago too | 05:08 |
| LjL | unlike the Japanese who just kept wearing them ever since | 05:10 |
| Toadisattva | it's pretty common all over asia to wear masks in flu season isn't it? | 05:10 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, yeah, but Japan kinda ruled "all over Asia" before and during WW2, and i suspect that tradition may come from them, at least partly. anyway, i've read accounts that at least in Japan, the "tradition" to wear masks comes from the 1918 pandemic... they started back then, then partly because of flu, partly because of rising pollution, partly because of increasing allergies, they kept wearing them | 05:12 |
| LjL | which is... admirable, considering how annoying i found wearing a mask even after brief periods | 05:12 |
| ynhof[m] | The only issue with masks is I want my partners to have nice, small ears | 05:13 |
| ynhof[m] | Not protruding in any manner | 05:14 |
| LjL | uh | 05:15 |
| LjL | 1) i don't think masks cause that, even if they have ear loops | 05:15 |
| LjL | 2) there are many masks that don't have ear loops but simply loop around your head | 05:16 |
| ubLIX | 3) how many partners do you have #imnotjudging | 05:16 |
| ynhof[m] | I need to source some non looping ones. All the surgical masks where I am are loopers. | 05:17 |
| ynhof[m] | I am very lonely boy atm | 05:17 |
| ynhof[m] | How many do you have? | 05:17 |
| ubLIX | i was just marvelling at your plural | 05:18 |
| Toadisattva | I think I'll be masking up every flu season from now on | 05:20 |
| ynhof[m] | Ah, you are very observant... | 05:21 |
| ynhof[m] | Best I not explain further | 05:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:10 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump warns of consequences if China 'knowingly responsible' for pandemic: US president says he doesn’t believe China or Iran death tolls; Europe fatalities approach 100,000; Spanish PM seeks lockdown extension. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 05:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:23 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global deaths top 160,000; Singapore reports record 942 new cases: The total number of deaths related to the new coronavirus has reached 160,518, according to the latest data from Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 05:31 |
| tinwhiskers | folks, FYI I've just added the number of Tests performed to the graphs on offloop | 05:32 |
| ryouma | thank you for the arrow. twitter is inaccessible to me. | 05:34 |
| ryouma | i really should not be wasting my time on the anti mask league thing but that is rather clickbaity for me right now should i resist? | 05:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:29 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: NSW government extends $5,000 fine to people who spit at 'all workers' – latest updates → https://is.gd/U9fXcg | 05:39 |
| ryouma | i glanced at it. wonder if it is corroborated. | 05:40 |
| ryouma | is spitting a big au thing? | 05:40 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, somewhat, but not as bad as some places in asia | 05:41 |
| tinwhiskers | some kiwis do it too. foul. | 05:41 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, well, spitting *at* people is a bit different. | 05:42 |
| tinwhiskers | that's just sick | 05:42 |
| ryouma | small ears. i am glad there is diversity in tastes. although i think i share that one. | 05:43 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, small ears are a sign of youth so probably generally considered more attractive than pancakes on the side of your head. | 05:45 |
| tinwhiskers | Mind you, sticky-out ears aren't that bad | 05:46 |
| tinwhiskers | (imo) | 05:46 |
| tinwhiskers | but cauliflower ears like rugby players get are a sight to behold. ugh | 05:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:42 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump warns of consequences if China 'knowingly responsible' for pandemic: US president says he doesn’t believe China or Iran death tolls; Europe fatalities approach 100,000; Spanish PM seeks lockdown extension. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 05:53 |
| Philippe[m] | !covid France | 05:57 |
| CoronaBot | France: Global rank: #4, cases: 151,793, fatalities: 19,323, active cases: 96,487, total recovered: 35,983, in a serious condition: 5,833. Mortality: 12.73%, case fatality rate: 34.94%, cases/1M: 2325.0, deaths/1M: 296.0. Case rate: 3,824/24h, death rate: 642/24h. Tests: 463,662, tests/1M: 7,103. | 05:57 |
| Philippe[m] | !covid USA | 05:57 |
| CoronaBot | USA: Global rank: #1, cases: 738,913 (+121), fatalities: 39,015 (+1), active cases: 631,613, total recovered: 68,285, in a serious condition: 13,551. Mortality: 5.28%, case fatality rate: 36.36%, cases/1M: 2232.0, deaths/1M: 118.0. Case rate: 29,057/24h, death rate: 1,867/24h. Tests: 3,722,209, tests/1M: 11,245. | 05:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:02 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities approach 100,000 as China reports no daily deaths: Trump warns of consequences if China was ‘knowingly responsible’ for virus; Spanish PM seeks lockdown extension. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 06:07 |
| euod[m] | you can't get much stupider than the US at the moment. | 06:12 |
| euod[m] | maybe if you had Trump branded orgy pits. | 06:12 |
| adventurer | Do you think China was 'knowingly responsible' as Trump seems to suggest in that above link? | 06:13 |
| adventurer | well suggests it's possible they were he seems to be | 06:14 |
| swift110 | I think that China has a measure of responsibility, but then so does the United States. The US had a head start and wasted it | 06:19 |
| euod[m] | the US had a head start and is busy starting to be "open for buisness" | 06:19 |
| euod[m] | utter fucking retards. | 06:19 |
| ryouma | the us did practically nothing for months | 06:20 |
| swift110 | scared people means that trump has more power than ever | 06:20 |
| euod[m] | !covid USA | 06:20 |
| CoronaBot | USA: Global rank: #1, cases: 738,913 (+121), fatalities: 39,015 (+1), active cases: 631,613, total recovered: 68,285, in a serious condition: 13,551. Mortality: 5.28%, case fatality rate: 36.36%, cases/1M: 2232.0, deaths/1M: 118.0. Case rate: 29,057/24h, death rate: 1,867/24h. Tests: 3,722,209, tests/1M: 11,245. | 06:20 |
| jacklsw | pls liberate US from stupidity | 06:20 |
| euod[m] | oh yes when there's record new cases and deaths, PERFECT time to go to the fucking beach. | 06:21 |
| swift110 | euod[m], exactly | 06:21 |
| swift110 | So many people are dropping the ball here and it's utterly ridiculous | 06:21 |
| ryouma | i am no expert but it seems to me the us could have closed borders early, ramped up tests, have had a big stockpile of equipment, ramped up equipment, secured supply lines, not screwed around with test type restrictions, have had plans in place, etc. | 06:21 |
| euod[m] | and the predisident is busy shitposting on twitter about "liberating" states maintaining lockdowns. | 06:21 |
| swift110 | Ironically, the one's making the bad decisions are the ones well insulated from it | 06:21 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma: agreed. lots of people squandered the time they had | 06:21 |
| ryouma | global rank number 1. perfect time to scapegoat china i guess. | 06:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:16 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global deaths top 160,000; Singapore reports record 942 new cases: The total number of deaths related to the new coronavirus has reached 160,518, according to the latest data from Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 06:22 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah :-) | 06:22 |
| euod[m] | swift110: yes. they all seem to have forgotten, or are ignoring that the only reason things aren't worse is due to people isolating. | 06:22 |
| swift110 | Thats the crazy part | 06:22 |
| swift110 | It originated in China and china has over a billion people and the USA STILL has more deaths | 06:23 |
| euod[m] | I have a horrible feeling that this is going to result in millions of deaths in the US, and the US bombing china. everybody loses. | 06:23 |
| tinwhiskers | that's not to say China is blameless, but the bar for expectations was never very high for them. Lots of people are to blame. | 06:23 |
| swift110 | Granted China could well have a lot more deaths | 06:23 |
| jacklsw | all politicians to be blamed | 06:23 |
| euod[m] | in the US. | 06:23 |
| jacklsw | mostly or almost all care for themselves | 06:23 |
| swift110 | A lot of people down to the individuals | 06:23 |
| euod[m] | in many countries the response has been measured, reasonable, and tasteful. | 06:23 |
| tinwhiskers | in New Zealand they pretty much did things right | 06:24 |
| cYnIxX3 | what did new zealand do? | 06:24 |
| tinwhiskers | just got on top if it very quickly | 06:24 |
| euod[m] | closed literally everything early. | 06:24 |
| tinwhiskers | NZ is getting about 10 cases a day now and is shooting for eradication | 06:24 |
| ryouma | idk about early on in nyc, but cuomo at least sounds (from my limited exposure which is to say just about one article) like he is taking the pandemic a bit more seriously | 06:24 |
| swift110 | yeah force people that enter the country to quarantine for a month | 06:24 |
| swift110 | thats what should have happened from the start | 06:25 |
| euod[m] | which is what should have been happening. | 06:25 |
| euod[m] | instead the US was busy saying it'll be over in a week and there's only like 10 cases. | 06:25 |
| tinwhiskers | NZ has mandatory supervised quarantine. They pay for food an accom. | 06:25 |
| Toadisattva | well now we got testing | 06:25 |
| tinwhiskers | err, for 2 weeks | 06:25 |
| swift110 | There was honestly a fair head start | 06:25 |
| ryouma | i hope cuomo just destroys all chances at reelection of those who wasted the head start the us had | 06:25 |
| Toadisattva | just test anyone coming in from elsewhere | 06:25 |
| swift110 | not to mention an entire ocean | 06:25 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 06:26 |
| Toadisattva | they should do quarantine too though just to be safe | 06:26 |
| euod[m] | Toadisattva: the US didn't have any tests for months. | 06:26 |
| Toadisattva | yeah it was a shitshow at first | 06:26 |
| euod[m] | Toadisattva: and even now, there's basically no testing. | 06:26 |
| Toadisattva | no need to look back at woulda coulda shoulda though | 06:26 |
| desantnye | how about we talk about the local level | 06:26 |
| euod[m] | Toadisattva: oh no it's intentional. you can't have bad numbers if you're not testing for them. | 06:26 |
| desantnye | bill de blasio = probably legit not very smart | 06:26 |
| cYnIxX3 | Toadisattva, if not how do you learn? | 06:26 |
| ryouma | can we blame lack of understanding of exponential functions for any of this? or is it mostly listening to lobbyists? or is it just stupidity? | 06:26 |
| Toadisattva | yeah we do neet more testing for sure | 06:27 |
| euod[m] | I think uh. that this is exposing just how stupid the average person is. | 06:27 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma: probably a mix of those things | 06:27 |
| Toadisattva | no one knew it was gonna spread so far so fast | 06:27 |
| euod[m] | haha. | 06:27 |
| tinwhiskers | erm. yeah, they did | 06:27 |
| desantnye | ryouma probably crowd apathy | 06:27 |
| desantnye | nothing major happened during H1N1 | 06:27 |
| ryouma | this channel knew before practically any politician in the us openly knew | 06:27 |
| Toadisattva | admittedlly when I first heard another virus in china I was like oh another sars or swine flu this won't effect my life at all | 06:28 |
| tinwhiskers | exactly | 06:28 |
| desantnye | nobody thought anything special would happen here myself included | 06:28 |
| cYnIxX3 | maybe no politicans knew because they wouldnt listen. but scientists knew. | 06:28 |
| euod[m] | I knew how fucked we were, because I was paying attention. | 06:28 |
| tinwhiskers | If we knew why didn't the politicians. It was frustrating to watch | 06:28 |
| swift110 | people knew | 06:28 |
| Toadisattva | well the politicians were briefed early | 06:28 |
| Toadisattva | they just dumped their stock adn built their bunkers | 06:28 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 06:28 |
| Toadisattva | standard politician leadership | 06:28 |
| ryouma | the citizens in most places ar the ones who are calling for lockdowns. the politicians are teh ones saying but let's allow hairdressers. | 06:28 |
| cYnIxX3 | I thought it was obvious in mid January that there was a storm brewing. | 06:29 |
| desantnye | it's a bet none of them were willing to take, because if you prepare for this disease and it's nothing you get blasted out of office | 06:29 |
| euod[m] | ryouma: oh yeah that's an essential service in australia don't you know. | 06:29 |
| desantnye | you have to look at it from their perspective | 06:29 |
| ryouma | it was really obvious that it was not nothing. asia was swimming in it. | 06:29 |
| cYnIxX3 | Granted I had no idea how bad it would get as the virus spread. | 06:29 |
| ryouma | and italy | 06:29 |
| ryouma | and iran | 06:29 |
| euod[m] | nah. more than that. | 06:30 |
| ryouma | it's like do you really believe north america has a virus killing border? | 06:30 |
| desantnye | my municipality got blasted for not salting before a winter storm | 06:30 |
| tinwhiskers | obviously the cost to the economy was potentially very high so they were being conservative. the WHO having been bitten from MERS was reluctant to call a pandemic | 06:30 |
| swift110 | desantnye, dude Trump wouldn't be booted out of office. Look at what he did openly BEFORE he was elected to office. Every red flag imaginable. | 06:30 |
| euod[m] | china was reporting horrible numbers. that means the numbers were way, way worse. | 06:30 |
| desantnye | now they salt every time even if it's nothing | 06:30 |
| Toadisattva | I didn't think it'd hit the US, or if it did it would be a few isolated cases that were quickly followed up on like ebola | 06:30 |
| desantnye | and they get blasted for wasting taxpayer money on salting | 06:30 |
| Toadisattva | presalting is a great idea | 06:31 |
| euod[m] | swift110: yeah. trump is untouchable. he's exactly positioned to appeal to the mindless majority of bible beating americans, despite somehow not actually fitting their model at all. | 06:31 |
| Toadisattva | we usually wait till after the snow falls | 06:31 |
| desantnye | it's a great idea until no snow falls and now you get criticized for waste | 06:31 |
| cYnIxX3 | I find it unfortunate that trump got rid of the CDC official in china. That would have been really helpful. | 06:31 |
| Toadisattva | eh it's just salt there is plenty of it | 06:32 |
| ryouma | who did not declare a pandemic because it did not want countries to give up the contact tracing and eradication stuff | 06:32 |
| swift110 | euod[m], so if anyone would be in the best position to act good on this it would have been him., It would have been the perfect way to gain even more support | 06:32 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, there's a whole heck of a lot we could have done better in hindsight | 06:32 |
| ryouma | who was warning | 06:32 |
| ryouma | we had FOREsight | 06:32 |
| Toadisattva | dismissing the white house pandemic team whos leader told us "when you get hit your fucked now" more or less was also a great trump move | 06:32 |
| tinwhiskers | ah. right. good point | 06:32 |
| swift110-phone__ | Good | 06:32 |
| desantnye | does anyone remember H1N1 though | 06:33 |
| desantnye | I barely remember it | 06:33 |
| euod[m] | swift110: trump appears to work on a day to day basis, with no forward or backward thinking. he's playing the game of fighting the fires he sees on Fox news for that day, and no further. this means that the best thing to do in any situation is just to deny it, even if it causes problems for you tomorrow, that's tomorrow's problem not today. | 06:33 |
| desantnye | pretty much nothing happened | 06:33 |
| Toadisattva | it didn't really make a bilp on the radar of my personal life | 06:33 |
| cYnIxX3 | desantnye, there are may versions of h1n1 starting back in the late 1800's | 06:33 |
| ryouma | i was not concerned about the previous viruses. i was concerned about this one. virologists were saying they were more concerned about it than ebola. | 06:33 |
| ryouma | lipkin says it is the most transmissible virus he has heard of | 06:34 |
| desantnye | i remember people laughing at ebola too | 06:34 |
| tinwhiskers | desantnye: yeah. if we'd shut down the countries then that would have been a hugely unecessary cost. You do need to kind wait until it's nearly too late to act. | 06:34 |
| cYnIxX3 | desantnye, the swine flue of 1918 was an H1N1 virus, I would say something happened. | 06:34 |
| swift110 | oh i see euod[m] that makes sense. Do you think he is actually stupid and incapable of forward thinking? Or is he more intelligent than people give him credit for? | 06:34 |
| desantnye | anyways big government and doing nothing... nothing unusual at all | 06:34 |
| Toadisattva | spanish flu was h1n1? | 06:34 |
| cYnIxX3 | yes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1 | 06:35 |
| swift110 | I was just watching a documentary on the flu of 1918 and that apparently started with the military in the USA and wswept around the world so pretty much countries are taking turns on jacking up the world | 06:35 |
| tinwhiskers | cYnIxX3: was that our first introduction to h1n1? | 06:35 |
| desantnye | wow that's amazing | 06:35 |
| Toadisattva | oh wow I didn't realize taht | 06:35 |
| cYnIxX3 | negative, the first was around 1880's-90's | 06:35 |
| tinwhiskers | ah | 06:35 |
| desantnye | media called it the swine flu, no idea it had a relation to the spanish flu (even that name is a misnomer apparently) | 06:35 |
| euod[m] | swift110: I really can't work it out. I suspect based on other people's writing that he used to be smart enough, but played stupid to fit a particular image. now that he's older with obviously declining health he's stupid and just thinks that he's on top of everything. | 06:36 |
| swift110-phone__ | Oh ok | 06:36 |
| euod[m] | but who knows. | 06:37 |
| euod[m] | his public speaking is just mind blowing. both that people let him do that, and that a huge portion of americans seem to think there's sense in what is effectively diarrhea. | 06:37 |
| ryouma | intelligence is not needed to become potus | 06:38 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 06:38 |
| cYnIxX3 | lol | 06:38 |
| ryouma | it is a different language. you just act like a strong leader. you win. | 06:38 |
| cYnIxX3 | reading the transcripts of his speaches is very difficult. | 06:38 |
| Toadisattva | as a figure head to distract people from real issues, he's doing a great job fulfiling the role | 06:38 |
| desantnye | i don't think i've heard an american say the president was good in... ages | 06:38 |
| euod[m] | reading his transcripts just sounds like a study in what happens when your brain turns to mush. | 06:39 |
| ryouma | this: https://www.theauthoritarians.org/ | 06:39 |
| desantnye | jesus christ | 06:39 |
| desantnye | this reads like satire | 06:39 |
| desantnye | look at that weird 3d render lol | 06:39 |
| euod[m] | "We’re going to win. We’re going to win so much. We’re going to win at trade, we’re going to win at the border. We’re going to win so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of winning, you’re going to come to me and go ‘Please, please, we can’t win anymore.’ You’ve heard this one. You’ll say ‘Please, Mr. President, we beg you sir, we don’t want to win anymore. It’s too much. It’s not fai | 06:40 |
| euod[m] | I just don't fucking get why anybody even listens to the man. | 06:41 |
| euod[m] | and the result is going to be millions of dead americans. | 06:41 |
| euod[m] | !covid USA | 06:41 |
| CoronaBot | USA: Global rank: #1, cases: 738,913 (+121), fatalities: 39,015 (+1), active cases: 631,613, total recovered: 68,285, in a serious condition: 13,551. Mortality: 5.28%, case fatality rate: 36.36%, cases/1M: 2232.0, deaths/1M: 118.0. Case rate: 29,057/24h, death rate: 1,867/24h. Tests: 3,722,209, tests/1M: 11,245. | 06:41 |
| euod[m] | yeah, look at how much winning we're doing! | 06:41 |
| cYnIxX3 | he says what people who dont want to know how something works what they want to hear. | 06:41 |
| Toadisattva | we're #1 | 06:42 |
| euod[m] | fuck yeah! murica #1! | 06:42 |
| euod[m] | it's 'cuz we have the guns! we gave the COVID freedom! | 06:42 |
| desantnye | says a lot about how much times have changed, really | 06:43 |
| cYnIxX3 | If america is #1 in every category, does that make this the american virus? | 06:43 |
| ryouma | um i linked to the authoritarians site because of the free book on it. which is good. i did not realize that the site also talksa bout today's very subject. | 06:43 |
| desantnye | we have so little patriotism that most of us don't mind looking down on our own president | 06:43 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma: it seems pretty good to me | 06:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:34 UTC: Australia coronavirus live: NSW government extends $5,000 fine to people who spit at 'all workers' – latest updates: Every worker is an essential worker, NSW health minister Brad Hazzard says, and Greg Hunt backs calls for global investigation into Covid-19 spread. Follow the latest news live → https://is.gd/U9fXcg | 06:44 |
| euod[m] | cYnIxX3: by the definition of "spanish flu" just being because spain reported correct numbers that looked the worse, I suppose so. | 06:44 |
| cYnIxX3 | thats nice, I think spitting on people should be illegal. | 06:44 |
| tinwhiskers | desantnye: the president shouldn't held so high that he can't be looked down on. | 06:44 |
| tinwhiskers | cYnIxX3: totally. | 06:45 |
| ryouma | it would be interesting to get the scores of folk on this channel on the questionnaire in the book | 06:45 |
| desantnye | i feel like the last time our country had any sense of patriotism was around 9/11 funny enough | 06:45 |
| desantnye | then we had the middle east wars that made no sense in hindsight | 06:45 |
| tinwhiskers | from outside the US they never made sense | 06:46 |
| Toadisattva | nationalism isn't useful anyway | 06:46 |
| desantnye | oh it is | 06:46 |
| ryouma | they never made sense from inside either to some | 06:46 |
| tinwhiskers | right | 06:46 |
| desantnye | we're an anomaly because our country was built on the blood of redcoats | 06:46 |
| ryouma | ? | 06:46 |
| desantnye | nationalism | 06:46 |
| desantnye | we wanted 'freedom' so bad we killed redcoats for it | 06:47 |
| ryouma | i don't even precisely know why my own country is at war. that is kind of weird. | 06:47 |
| cYnIxX3 | nationalism is not patriotism. | 06:47 |
| ryouma | best to define your terms | 06:47 |
| desantnye | I feel like that's semantics but that's fine too | 06:48 |
| ryouma | if you mean like "coming together to solve a prolbem" that is one thing. if you mean like "ameriac fuck yeah let's bomb the middle east" that is another thing. | 06:48 |
| cYnIxX3 | the first is patiotism, the latter is nationalism. | 06:48 |
| cYnIxX3 | patriotism* | 06:49 |
| desantnye | i honestly can't remember the last time the collective consciousness was happy in this country | 06:49 |
| ryouma | when was it historically? | 06:49 |
| desantnye | feels like it's just nonstop troubles and complaining | 06:49 |
| ryouma | my mother tells me that there used to be civility | 06:50 |
| ryouma | but that was before my time | 06:50 |
| desantnye | hell we don't even pledge allegiance to the flag anymore | 06:50 |
| desantnye | used to do that every morning | 06:50 |
| cYnIxX3 | that made people happy? | 06:50 |
| ryouma | that solved problems? | 06:51 |
| desantnye | It didn't, but you can pretend. These small things are apparently useful to the mind. | 06:51 |
| desantnye | ie scientists found that religious prayer was helpful in some metric I can't remember | 06:52 |
| desantnye | gratefulness I think it was | 06:52 |
| ryouma | in japan, teachers (and maybe more) have to sing a song deemed nationalistic. and they get in trouble if they do not actually sing. so somebody came up with a set of lyrics for it that they can sing, that are actually in english, that mean something different, but look the same when you sing it. i.e. yor mouth looks the same. | 06:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 04:53 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Front-line NHS staff deserve extra £29 a day, Lib Dems say → https://is.gd/2zzq5F | 06:58 |
| ryouma | wow i did not nkow about the loyalty oaths | 07:05 |
| ryouma | i suppose i knew the loyalty promises from candidates but not oaths | 07:05 |
| ryouma | book itself is https://www.theauthoritarians.org/options-for-getting-the-book/ | 07:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:01 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities approach 100,000 as China reports no daily deaths: Trump warns of consequences if China was ‘knowingly responsible’ for virus; Spanish PM seeks lockdown extension. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 07:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany adds 2,400 new cases as global death toll tops 160,000 → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 07:27 |
| ryouma | what is the pronunciation of papr | 07:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:30 UTC: Australia coronavirus live: NSW government extends $5,000 fine to people who spit at 'all workers' – latest updates: Every worker is an essential worker, NSW health minister Brad Hazzard says, and Greg Hunt backs calls for global investigation into Covid-19 spread. Follow the latest news live → https://is.gd/U9fXcg | 07:41 |
| ryouma | like paper or like papper? | 07:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:48 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities approach 100,000 as China reports no daily deaths: Trump warns of consequences if China was ‘knowingly responsible’ for virus; Spanish PM seeks lockdown extension. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 08:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany adds 2,400 new cases as global death toll tops 160,000 → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 08:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:18 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities approach 100,000 as China reports no daily deaths: Trump warns of consequences if China was ‘knowingly responsible’ for virus; Spanish PM seeks lockdown extension. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 08:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 06:30 UTC: Coronavirus: Care home deaths 'far higher' than official figures: A new report suggests deaths in residential care linked to Covid-19 could have doubled over a month. → https://is.gd/2dg20n | 08:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany adds 2,400 new cases as global death toll tops 160,000 → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 09:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:19 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities approach 100,000 as China reports no daily deaths: Trump warns of consequences if China was ‘knowingly responsible’ for virus; Spanish PM seeks lockdown extension. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 09:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 07:39 UTC: Coronavirus: Care home deaths 'far higher' than official figures: A new report suggests deaths in residential care linked to Covid-19 could have doubled over a month. → https://is.gd/2dg20n | 09:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:50 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany adds 2,400 new cases as global death toll tops 160,000 → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 09:58 |
| euod[m] | “Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, you know that, right? Coronavirus, they’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, ‘How’s President Trump doing?’ They go, ‘Oh, not good, not good.’ They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa.” “They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They t | 10:03 |
| euod[m] | They’d been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning. They lost. It’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax.” | 10:03 |
| euod[m] | “The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant.” | 10:04 |
| euod[m] | “It will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” | 10:05 |
| genera | beautiful big numbers. | 10:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:54 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: we should not be thinking of lifting lockdown restrictions yet, says Gove → https://is.gd/A2XKIJ | 10:05 |
| euod[m] | “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.” | 10:05 |
| euod[m] | “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.” | 10:06 |
| euod[m] | a lot of elements of medical. | 10:07 |
| euod[m] | dude is functionally illiterate. | 10:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:09 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Corea del Sud → https://is.gd/0LeBol | 10:12 |
| aradesh | a family my mum knew as a child in my town, two parents (in their 80's) and one of their daughters (similar to my mum's age) all died of coronavirus. crazy... | 10:15 |
| aradesh | https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/burton/heartbreak-mum-dad-daughter-die-4042226 | 10:16 |
| tinwhiskers | Crazy | 10:16 |
| aradesh | my mum lived on their street, and was in the same class at school as one of their children | 10:17 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, aradesh, I fixed the speed issue on offloop.net that you mentioned yesterday. I also added test numbers fwiw. | 10:17 |
| mayaudara[m] | Jesus dude | 10:17 |
| mayaudara[m] | Look after yourself and be safe&healthy 🙏 | 10:18 |
| mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: nice! | 10:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 08:14 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Iran, TAC rileva polmonite da coronavirus nel polmone di una donna che non ha avuto sintomi. → https://is.gd/tPOkb9 | 10:19 |
| mayaudara[m] | Meanwhile people in my country behave like nothing’s happening while the whole hospitals closing under quarantine | 10:20 |
| tinwhiskers | mayaudara[m]: where is that? | 10:21 |
| mayaudara[m] | Russia | 10:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Ahh. | 10:21 |
| mayaudara[m] | People are dying and those idiots celebrating easter in churches instead sitting at home | 10:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Jesus | 10:22 |
| aradesh | they should celebrate from home | 10:22 |
| mefistofeles | Russia was really good at tracking and testing this thing, it's now going out of control for them as well, apparently | 10:22 |
| aradesh | tinwhiskers: great :) | 10:22 |
| aradesh | i'm watching voice of thunder's coronavirus update vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Fbq7f8ILA | 10:23 |
| l0ndoner | I don't trust these test.. If your testing every day 100,000 people and every day 20% comes back positive then the virus is still heavily spreading in the community | 10:24 |
| l0ndoner | politicians lie and tell us its good numbers | 10:24 |
| mayaudara[m] | <mefistofeles "Russia was really good at tracki"> As government fun fact: no one is testing people and real number of infected & dead people is dying | 10:25 |
| mefistofeles | l0ndoner: depends, testing is crucial to know how the situation is, but of course testing alone doesn't do anything | 10:25 |
| mayaudara[m] | Like government like people * | 10:25 |
| mayaudara[m] | Lol i need to sleep more. Real numbers are hiding that’s what I mean | 10:26 |
| aradesh | l0ndoner: what do you mean, you don't trust the tests? | 10:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:23 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Vaccino → https://is.gd/eRZj7d | 10:27 |
| mayaudara[m] | Anyways in Belarus the situation is way more worse. Their president simply doesn’t believe covid exists | 10:27 |
| aradesh | i was watching a government select committee the other day where a bunch of MPs were talking to some doctor, and he was saying that unless we -really- get on top of the cases, get them right down, and then keep on top of it in a similar fashion to korea, it will just explode again. and the politicians were all like, "right. moving onto the next guy." | 10:28 |
| aradesh | xD | 10:28 |
| aradesh | they didn't seem to really want to let that concept sink in | 10:28 |
| aradesh | seems to be a fair bit of denial and lack of understanding from the politicians | 10:29 |
| mefistofeles | mayaudara[m]: tbh, Belarus numbers don't seem too bad, but of course it needs time | 10:30 |
| mayaudara[m] | <aradesh "seems to be a fair bit of denial"> Absolutely | 10:30 |
| aradesh | mefistofeles: are you in belarus? | 10:30 |
| mefistofeles | aradesh: no | 10:30 |
| aradesh | belarus has the benefit of not having huge numbers of peolpe leave/enter the country every day, or travelling around the country constantly... their economy is a little slower | 10:31 |
| mayaudara[m] | Covid spreads in geometric progression and they already have 400 infected DOCTORS | 10:31 |
| aradesh | countries like the US, and UK, where business men fly and drive around constantly meant it all spread much faster | 10:31 |
| aradesh | belarus seems like a nice country. they seem to have the balance about right.. it's not a really poor country, but it's not a raging economic force | 10:32 |
| aradesh | nice gentle middle-ground | 10:32 |
| Blankspace_ | Is age also a factor in who all are at more risk from covid? | 10:32 |
| mefistofeles | mayaudara[m]: yes, but tbh, infected people in hospitals is not as bad as outside of hospitals, ouf course ideally you wouldn't want the health workres to be infected, but that's just unrealistic | 10:32 |
| mefistofeles | of* | 10:32 |
| aradesh | i'm a bit curious why in the UK, the number of hospital workers who have died from coronavirus have been overwhelmingly non-white | 10:33 |
| mefistofeles | we jsut have to see how this plays out, if they can keep the good numbers, which is unlikely | 10:33 |
| l0ndoner | the cases are plateauing so the curve looks great but if the testing shows the stats unchanging day to day week to week thats not good. | 10:33 |
| aradesh | even though they only make up something like 20% of the workers | 10:33 |
| aradesh | tops | 10:33 |
| mayaudara[m] | and the situation will get worse if they don’t prevent the covid problem. And Lukashenko said something like “the problem is gone now, children have to get back to school” etc. | 10:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:25 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: we should not be thinking of lifting lockdown restrictions yet, says Gove → https://is.gd/A2XKIJ | 10:34 |
| mayaudara[m] | <Blankspace_ "Is age also a factor in who all "> I think the strength(?) of immune system is more important | 10:34 |
| mefistofeles | aradesh: do you have the source on that? | 10:34 |
| Blankspace_ | Is strength of immune greater for whites. | 10:36 |
| mayaudara[m] | And the shittiest thing ever: i have to work and go outside everyday while people like.. walking? Having fun? That annoys so much | 10:36 |
| mefistofeles | Blankspace_: that's unlikely, source? | 10:36 |
| Blankspace_ | No I just read above more Black's are doing | 10:37 |
| l0ndoner | Blankspace_: they dont know why BAME community is effected more | 10:37 |
| Blankspace_ | Dying* | 10:37 |
| mefistofeles | Blankspace_: well, we don't even have a source on that | 10:37 |
| mefistofeles | afaics | 10:37 |
| aradesh | mefistofeles: no. it's just that a few weeks ago, there had been like 10 NHS workers listed, and only one of them was white | 10:38 |
| aradesh | and i've heard it anecdotally referenced since | 10:39 |
| mayaudara[m] | I think it also depends on countries where covid spreads | 10:39 |
| aradesh | l0ndoner: yeah, a lot of possible factors | 10:40 |
| aradesh | perhaps many of them contributing together | 10:40 |
| mayaudara[m] | I mean lets be honest Third World countries (like almost all african countries) doesn’t have enough good medicine | 10:40 |
| mayaudara[m] | Don’t wanna sound racist sorry | 10:41 |
| aradesh | a) what kind of work do these people do? maybe they're more in careers where you can't work from home? perhaps this is also the reason why men are affected more in general too? b) perhaps they tend to live in larger families, and have bigger family networks where the virus spreads more easily. c) perhaps it's genetic? d) perhaps there is a language barrier for understanding the guidelines? e) perhaps in | 10:41 |
| aradesh | their culture there is more general flouting of the guidelines? | 10:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:33 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Germany adds 2,400 new cases as global death toll tops 160,000 → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 10:41 |
| aradesh | probably a combination of factors a-e there | 10:42 |
| mayaudara[m] | Exactly | 10:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 08:46 UTC: Covid2019: Survivor: stop 'crying and complaining' about Safer at Home extension → https://is.gd/PPFjvD | 10:48 |
| aradesh | pretty silly the USA pushing for opening their country again already | 10:49 |
| aradesh | if they just open up again now, it'll basically mean their $2 trillion bailout was a waste of money | 10:50 |
| aradesh | because they might as well hhave just not bothered | 10:50 |
| mayaudara[m] | <aradesh "pretty silly the USA pushing for"> They really do? | 10:51 |
| aradesh | well trump keeps talking about it | 10:51 |
| aradesh | and yesterday the USA had protests of people who want to reopen the country | 10:51 |
| aradesh | trump keeps talking about "in a few weeks" | 10:51 |
| mayaudara[m] | Always thought trump is a loose cannon | 10:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia sees record rise in new cases as global death toll tops 160,000 → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 10:56 |
| mayaudara[m] | Lol here we go top-10 finally | 10:56 |
| mefistofeles | go Russia! | 10:57 |
| mefistofeles | xD | 10:57 |
| aradesh | russia not looking promising | 10:57 |
| mayaudara[m] | It’s like broken eurovision or olimpic games | 10:58 |
| mayaudara[m] | I’m sure Russia will get all golds after all | 10:58 |
| mayaudara[m] | Not to be dramatic but I don’t wanna die.... | 10:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 08:55 UTC: Coronavirus: Care home deaths 'far higher' than official figures: A new report suggests deaths in residential care linked to Covid-19 could have doubled over a month. → https://is.gd/2dg20n | 11:03 |
| aradesh | mayaudara[m]: are you in russia? | 11:03 |
| mayaudara[m] | Yep | 11:05 |
| mayaudara[m] | And I’m forced to work :,) | 11:05 |
| nihilist_223347 | No lockdown? No holiday? | 11:06 |
| l0ndoner[m] | o/ | 11:07 |
| l0ndoner[m] | just jumped on Matrix instead of Xchat | 11:08 |
| mayaudara[m] | <nihilist_223347 "No lockdown? No holiday?"> Most pf shops are open and lockdown is not official. | 11:09 |
| mayaudara[m] | Of* | 11:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:03 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia sees record rise in new cases as global death toll tops 160,000 → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 11:10 |
| mayaudara[m] | Fun story: yesterday police threw journalists out of church cuz journalists wanted to film how people infringe quarantine | 11:14 |
| mayaudara[m] | And there was large group of people celebrating easter | 11:15 |
| l0ndoner[m] | mayaudara: I hear Putin is self isolation or has come out now? | 11:15 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: The inventor of N95 masks, which integrate virus-blocking technology into their design, has come out of retirement to find ways to disinfect the masks for reuse, amid the coronavirus pandemic. (10044 votes) | https://redd.it/g3zjgb | 11:20 |
| mayaudara[m] | <l0ndoner[m] "mayaudara: I hear Putin is self "> He made several video messages (25.03, 02.04 and also teo more of them with one week pause) but it’s obvious they were filmed at the same day long before the first message. | 11:23 |
| mayaudara[m] | two* | 11:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:14 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: government hit by claims it missed chance to lessen impact during February and March → https://is.gd/A2XKIJ | 11:24 |
| nihilist_223347 | Will the pandemic ever end? I mean even if cases go low now, the virus is probably mutating somewhere and can possible create another wave. | 11:37 |
| mayaudara[m] | It’s hard to say | 11:41 |
| nihilist_223347 | Yeah ... and here I just wish I could go out of my home | 11:47 |
| Biep[m] | <mefistofeles "btw, if you don't know already ("> Do they have free books on other subjects too? | 11:52 |
| mefistofeles | Biep[m]: I don't think so, what subjects are you interested in? I have some other source of legal free books | 11:53 |
| Biep[m] | Maths is one of the subjects that interests me, but there is also Philosophy, Religion, Botany, .. | 11:55 |
| aradesh | mefistofeles: seems it's not an overwhelming majority, but non-white deaths in the NHS definitely seem more highly represented than their percentage in the workforce (less than 20%) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/16/doctors-nurses-porters-volunteers-the-uk-health-workers-who-have-died-from-covid-19 | 11:57 |
| aradesh | eyeballing that gives the impression that a good half of them are minorities | 11:58 |
| aradesh | which is interesting because - in the BAME community in general you have certain factors. but you'd imagine that the risk amongst hospital staff in general is fairly similar | 11:58 |
| aradesh | you'd expect their main risk comes from being in the hospital, rather than in the community | 11:59 |
| aradesh | eye-balling i count 25 clearly not native and 17 probably native | 12:01 |
| l0ndoner[m] | if the UK - BAME communities are more at risk what about US - BAME communities will it be the same or will they fare better? | 12:01 |
| aradesh | from that photo montage | 12:01 |
| aradesh | l0ndoner[m]: i have anecdotally heard that black communities in the USA have been hit particularly hard by the virus | 12:02 |
| aradesh | and also that the pattern is similar in other european countries with large migrant populations | 12:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:05 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna → https://is.gd/BgdxRi | 12:08 |
| IndoAnon | what's BAME? | 12:09 |
| aradesh | i can't remember the acronym | 12:09 |
| IndoAnon | Black Ass Middle eastern? | 12:09 |
| aradesh | something like, black and minority ethnic? | 12:09 |
| aradesh | "black, asian & minority ethnic" | 12:09 |
| IndoAnon | lel | 12:09 |
| aradesh | it's a popular term here in the UK media | 12:09 |
| IndoAnon | why they keep inventing new acronym, seriously | 12:10 |
| aradesh | for non-whites | 12:10 |
| aradesh | dunno | 12:10 |
| aradesh | well it's not just non-whites | 12:10 |
| aradesh | there are white ethnic minorities too so... it's a term we use for non-ethnic brits | 12:10 |
| IndoAnon | i thought that it was MENA | 12:10 |
| IndoAnon | maybe, it's related to public housing usage | 12:12 |
| aradesh | but yeah they always come up with new terms for some reason. maybe it's because the old terms become tainted with associations quickly, so they want a new one | 12:13 |
| IndoAnon | then, it's idiotic | 12:13 |
| aradesh | like if BAME ever becomes tainted as a slur, or disrepectful, they'll probably throw it in the bin pretty fast | 12:13 |
| IndoAnon | grenfell tower is quite an example why public housing isn't stellar example of public safety | 12:14 |
| mefistofeles | Biep[m]: plenty of Math in that source | 12:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:11 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Svezia → https://is.gd/WzpcjK | 12:15 |
| mefistofeles | Biep[m]: you can also try this https://muse.jhu.edu/search?action=search&query=content:mammals:and&limit=subscription:y&limit=format:book&min=1&max=730 more biology centered, imho | 12:17 |
| aradesh | what is MENA? | 12:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:18 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Campania → https://is.gd/TqBmPV | 12:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 10:27 UTC: CoronavirusGLOBAL: The Governments, The Authorities Are Lying & Deceiving People Over The Corona Virus NCOV → https://is.gd/SG02ce | 12:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:32 UTC: UK coronavirus live: government hit by claims it missed chance to lessen impact during February and March: Michael Gove confirms PM missed five coronavirus Cobra meetings How did Britain get its response to coronavirus so wrong? Medical staff face weeks without protective gowns Nearly seven million jobs at risk if [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/A2XKIJ | 12:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:51 UTC: Trump warns China could face consequences for coronavirus outbreak – video: Donald Trump said on Saturday that China should face unspecified consequences if it was ‘knowingly responsible’ for the coronavirus pandemic. ‘If it was a mistake, a mistake is a mistake. But if they were knowingly responsible, yeah, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/7SDeMw | 12:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:05 UTC: UK coronavirus live: government hit by claims it missed chance to lessen impact during February and March: Michael Gove confirms PM missed five coronavirus Cobra meetings How did Britain get its response to coronavirus so wrong? Medical staff face weeks without protective gowns Nearly seven million jobs at risk if [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/A2XKIJ | 13:11 |
| nihilist_223374 | Any fun thing to do in lockdown? | 13:14 |
| wiiky | https://nextstrain.org/ | 13:16 |
| mayaudara[m] | Hmmmmmm art? dance? Moving furniture? | 13:16 |
| wiiky | nihilist_223374 has left (Client Quit) | 13:16 |
| wiiky | hackers | 13:17 |
| sarah24[m] | https://is.gd/chaturbate_free | 13:24 |
| Biep[m] | <mefistofeles "Biep: you can also try this http"> Thanks! | 13:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia sees record rise in new cases as global death toll tops 160,000 → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 13:26 |
| l0ndoner[m] | !covid | 13:29 |
| CoronaBot | Total cases: 2,347,815 (+17,049), deaths: 161,128 (+1,081), recovered: 605,716. Active cases: 1,580,971, 1,525,825 are in a mild condition, 55,146 are in a serious condition. Mortality: 6.86%, case fatality rate: 21.01%. Case rate: 81,903/24h, death rate: 5,909/24h. Last update: 7m ago. | 13:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:48 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Spain sees lowest death count rise in a month, global death toll tops 160,000 → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 13:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 12:07 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Wuhan China Virus Timelapse January 20 to April 19 Spread of Coronavirus Covid19 Outbreak UPDATE ! → https://is.gd/omtp4O | 14:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:09 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities approach 100,000 as China reports no daily deaths → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 14:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:27 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 735,000, South Korea relaxes some social distancing rules → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 14:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:45 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito → https://is.gd/XabVUA | 14:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 735,000, South Korea relaxes some social distancing rules → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 15:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:13 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Pelosi says lawmakers are 'very close' to new rescue funding deal as US cases top 735,000 → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 15:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:24 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Mondo → https://is.gd/JB7ZCI | 15:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:26 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA - Sondaggio → https://is.gd/n3RJRo | 15:33 |
| sarah24[m] | https://is.gd/chaturbate_free | 15:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:38 UTC: (news): Spain sees lowest coronavirus death count rise in a month, global death toll tops 160,000 → https://is.gd/N9lV11 | 15:41 |
| ynhof[m] | ubLIX ubLIX ubLIX[hmm] ubLIX[mhm] | 15:42 |
| ubLIX | ynhof[m]: hello | 15:42 |
| ynhof[m] | There is fresh prawn salad requiring an instaban above me | 15:43 |
| ubLIX | lol | 15:43 |
| ubLIX | ynhof[m]: for matrix side issues, you should ping LjL | 15:43 |
| ubLIX | however, i will ban on this side | 15:43 |
| ynhof[m] | Got it | 15:43 |
| sarah24[m] | https://is.gd/chaturbate_free | 15:44 |
| ynhof[m] | Sarah can you ping me some links, and stop posting them here | 15:45 |
| l0ndoner | only problem with Matrix is the pr0n and spam you dont get to see graphics on xchat | 15:45 |
| ubLIX | pwr22: can you handle a matrix ban? | 15:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:39 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities pass 100,000, but death rate slows in Spain and Netherlands → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 15:48 |
| ubLIX | heh. apparently the bridge handles matrix side op too | 15:51 |
| Hoffman | neat | 15:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:53 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Pelosi says lawmakers are 'very close' to new rescue funding deal as US cases top 735,000 → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 16:02 |
| l0ndoner[m] | sup peeps | 16:05 |
| Hoffman | word | 16:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:05 UTC: Mnuchin, Pelosi say 'very close' to a deal on second round of small business loans: The $349 billion rescue loan program ran out of money on Thursday, just two weeks after it was launched to help small businesses struggling with the financial hit of the coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/WJC26h | 16:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York not ready to ease restrictions, Germany signals help for struggling workers and businesses → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 16:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:35 UTC: Mnuchin, Pelosi say 'very close' to a deal on second round of small business loans: The $349 billion rescue loan program ran out of money on Thursday, just two weeks after it was launched to allow banks to issue taxpayer-backed loans to small businesses hurt by the coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/WJC26h | 16:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:39 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York not ready to ease restrictions, Germany signals help for struggling workers and businesses → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 16:44 |
| pwr22 | <ubLIX "heh. apparently the bridge handl"> Yeah, that's cool | 16:51 |
| pwr22 | It doesn't handle voice afaik though | 16:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:49 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus, Zaia: "E' Sud contro Nord. Il 4 maggio la linea ultima oltre la quale solo riaperture" - la Repubblica → https://is.gd/e92hTU | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:52 UTC: Mnuchin, Pelosi 'very close' to a deal on second round of small business loans: The $349 billion rescue loan program ran out of money on Thursday, just two weeks after it was launched to allow banks to issue taxpayer-backed loans to small businesses hurt by the coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/WJC26h | 16:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York not ready to ease restrictions, Germany signals help for struggling workers and businesses → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 17:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:16 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Gavin Williamson gives daily briefing as hospital death toll reaches 16,060 → https://is.gd/A2XKIJ | 17:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 15:24 UTC: /u/slakmehl: ProPublica su Twitter: "The novel coronavirus, a respiratory illness, is damaging kidneys at an unexpectedly high rate, according to experts. A shortage of dialysis materials has forced New York doctors to directly lobby corporate executives for help. https://t.co/8HvletsM2s" → https://is.gd/CzFJib | 17:28 |
| qkall | #j #r/linux | 17:39 |
| qkall | ...lol | 17:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:30 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Gavin Williamson gives daily briefing as hospital death toll reaches 16,060 → https://is.gd/A2XKIJ | 17:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Luxury cruise begun before pandemic nears final port, New York not ready to ease restrictions → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 17:49 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: 1 in 1000 New York City residents have now died from Coronavirus (11279 votes) | https://redd.it/g47edo | 17:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:45 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Gavin Williamson gives daily briefing as hospital death toll reaches 16,060 → https://is.gd/A2XKIJ | 17:56 |
| xrogaan | traces of covid-19 can be found in water? | 18:01 |
| Arsanerit | reportedly, can be used to identify infected areas | 18:02 |
| Arsanerit | at least it can be found in sewage "water" | 18:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:56 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Luxury cruise begun before pandemic nears final port, New York not ready to ease restrictions → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 18:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:05 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Aggiornamento numero di contagi in Italia 19 Aprile → https://is.gd/q5bgQt | 18:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:12 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Luxury cruise begun before pandemic nears final port, New York not ready to ease restrictions → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 18:17 |
| LjL | No press conference, so just copypasting | 18:19 |
| LjL | Aggiornamento numero di contagi in Italia 19 Aprile | 18:19 |
| LjL | Totali (total) 178972 (+3047) | 18:19 |
| LjL | Positivi Attivi (active cases) 108257 (+486) | 18:19 |
| LjL | Guariti (healed) 47055 (+2128) | 18:19 |
| LjL | Deceduti (deaths) 23660 (+433) | 18:19 |
| LjL | as usual they count "active cases" so it makes no sense, but whatever | 18:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 16:23 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Charles Ornstein su Twitter: "Hopeful signs in NY state. But still a lot of illness and death.… " → https://is.gd/1sK7yZ | 18:25 |
| Butterfly^ | https://i.imgur.com/x4djbo6.jpg HOLY FUCKING SHIT, FUCK THIS COMPANY UP THE ASS WITH A PINEAPPLE!! | 18:25 |
| LjL | that does look horrid, but... err, can you keep the language slightly less colorful and more lowercase-like? just a tad | 18:28 |
| Butterfly^ | i usually do, it's extremely rare that i type even a single word in caps, but... this one really got under my skin and i couldn't control myself :) | 18:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:28 UTC: Mnuchin, Pelosi 'very close' to a deal on second round of small business loans: The $349 billion rescue loan program ran out of money on Thursday, just two weeks after it was launched to allow banks to issue taxpayer-backed loans to small businesses hurt by the coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/WJC26h | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:32 UTC: (news): The stock market is rising on hope for a pharma solution to coronavirus — here's how close we are → https://is.gd/Bjchkh | 18:39 |
| jacklsw | why LjL not a mod here haha | 18:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 16:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: 'Enormous strain' on protective kit for NHS - Williamson → https://is.gd/6EuSQY | 18:46 |
| LjL | jacklsw, because they're called ops on irc! | 18:48 |
| jacklsw | oops | 18:49 |
| pwr22 | Just chatted with a friend I haven't spoken to in a while and they don't believe the lockdown in the UK is needed and hopes people start ignoring it ☹︎ | 18:49 |
| eth01 | well your friend is stupid | 18:49 |
| pwr22 | It's okay, come over to Matrix where they are called mods again 😛 | 18:49 |
| l0ndoner[m] | Matrix > Xchat | 18:50 |
| LjL | "again" | 18:50 |
| LjL | they were called ops *first*! | 18:50 |
| l0ndoner[m] | can you turn off thumbnails in Matrix? | 18:50 |
| pwr22 | I don't like to use terms like that about others personally but I do agree that their views on this don't seem to be well grounded imo | 18:50 |
| LjL | l0ndoner[m], i hope you mean HexChat because Xchat itself is soooo deprecated | 18:51 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, what I said isn't really factually accurate | 18:51 |
| LjL | also, i liked Konversation much better, but then i stopped using KDE so... | 18:51 |
| pwr22 | "where they are now called mods" is better | 18:51 |
| navonod | hello | 18:51 |
| l0ndoner[m] | <<< uses Xchat on my linux box all times.... well apart from when I'm on Riot | 18:52 |
| l0ndoner[m] | LinuxMint Cinnamon x64 | 18:52 |
| navonod | I tried using mint | 18:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 16:51 UTC: CoronavirusGLOBAL: Coronavirus, Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine: Is Hemoglobin The Real Key To Treating Coronavirus? → https://is.gd/ZMhan7 | 18:53 |
| pwr22 | I don't think I was ever on IRC early enough to use the original Xchat | 18:56 |
| l0ndoner[m] | Hexchat your right LjL | 18:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:59 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Società → https://is.gd/oydtlm | 19:01 |
| Butterfly^ | https://i.imgur.com/km1Gg5k.mp4 'Murica, f*ck yeah! | 19:01 |
| navonod | I'm using xchat | 19:05 |
| navonod | and I have hexchat on my other computer | 19:06 |
| navonod | its the shit | 19:06 |
| navonod | so lightweight | 19:06 |
| LjL | pwr22, the original Xchat was loosely inspired by AmIRC, an IRC client for the Amiga, the most widely (relatively speaking) used one at least. i've used AmIRC! | 19:06 |
| navonod | how old are you LjL ? | 19:06 |
| l0ndoner[m] | Mirc wow havent used that in like 4 years since moving off windows to Linux | 19:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:02 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Economia → https://is.gd/qnSP9T | 19:08 |
| LjL | navonod, i'm in my 30s, but really, i haven't used AmIRC "back then" when an Amiga 500+ was my only computer. back then, i didn't know what the internet was, although i did notice that writers in some Amiga magazines had these strange electronic addresses with "@" in them. but i remained so attached to the Amiga that i bought a new one, an A1200 with a lot of pimping up, so that it can connect to the internet and do all the things i dreamed of when i only | 19:10 |
| LjL | had the A500+ and was reading magazines that talked of all the marvels more powerful Amigas could do | 19:10 |
| navonod | right on | 19:11 |
| navonod | I used irc on a local library network in 1990 | 19:11 |
| navonod | not a lot happened lol.. I was 8 years old | 19:11 |
| Philippe[m] | navonod: You're way ahead of the curve. | 19:12 |
| l0ndoner[m] | remember being in a queue number 203 waiting to download over dcc lol man those were some frustrating days | 19:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:10 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Luxury cruise begun before pandemic nears final port, New York not ready to ease restrictions → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 19:15 |
| navonod | yeah I used to download stuff from channels like that too | 19:16 |
| navonod | I still do, and I used to too | 19:16 |
| Blankspace | %data | 19:16 |
| Brainstorm | Blankspace: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.4 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 163151 deaths (6.9% of cases) as of 11 minutes ago. 20.3 million tests were performed (11.6% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 19:17 |
| Butterfly^ | navonod : xchat has been discontinued 9 years ago, you should absolutely switch to hexchat (fork of xchat), who knows how many security holes are active in xchat | 19:19 |
| navonod | copy | 19:24 |
| _abc_ | Just reading in 1911 the Manchurian pulmonary pest killed 60,000 in China, and probably did not spread world wide because of slow travel. China seems to somehow attract these things like a magnet. | 19:27 |
| AimHere | China likely gets about ~1/4 of all epidemics, by virtue of having ~1/4 of all people | 19:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 17:21 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: The Chinese Government has FOOLED you! → https://is.gd/CXhYvw | 19:29 |
| _abc_ | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249236675_The_Epidemic_of_Pneumonic_Plague_in_Manchuria_1910-1911 | 19:30 |
| _abc_ | https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/35/4/1059/686393 | 19:31 |
| mefistofeles | %t | 19:31 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles, the URL could not be loaded | 19:31 |
| _abc_ | taht's pretty scary. 100% mortality in 24 hrs without treatment | 19:31 |
| _abc_ | Very strong deja vu. https://disasterhistory.org/the-manchurian-plague-1910-11 | 19:35 |
| navonod | just upgraded to hexchat | 19:35 |
| Butterfly^ | awesome navonod | 19:35 |
| _abc_ | Strange animal is brought in large numbers in contact with people, people travel together disregarding local customs and hygiene for reasons, it reaches a major population center, boom epidemic. | 19:35 |
| navonod | thanks for the advice | 19:36 |
| Butterfly^ | happy to help :) | 19:37 |
| jacklsw | _abc_ yes, it took a man from malaysia to help finding the cure in china back then | 19:37 |
| jacklsw | the doctor was from malaysia | 19:37 |
| _abc_ | there was no cure. They found out how to curtail the spread, not the cure. | 19:39 |
| navonod | theres no cure for the common cold either | 19:40 |
| navonod | just hits at people with weak immune systems | 19:40 |
| _abc_ | there are "cures" consisting in vaccines for the virus group from the previous year and also immunity boosting measures. | 19:40 |
| navonod | yeah prevention is best but its not a cure | 19:41 |
| navonod | injection of antibodies | 19:42 |
| navonod | is everyone expected to get the vaccine even if they already had natural post infection immunity? | 19:42 |
| _abc_ | Depends how you see it. If the R number is <1.0 no matter how, it will just make a small number of non lethal cases. | 19:42 |
| rajrajraj | it seems world has had tis peek | 19:42 |
| rajrajraj | we wont be seeing 10k deaths or beyond | 19:42 |
| rajrajraj | per day | 19:42 |
| _abc_ | What was that about 10% had antibodies in that Italian test? That is very low. | 19:43 |
| l0ndoner[m] | Hows the vaccine work for third world countrys and the BAME communities in America? | 19:43 |
| navonod | thats italy.. totally different than north america | 19:43 |
| _abc_ | l0ndoner[m]: WHO gets funding from countries which it did not screw and the poor countries get vaccines. Eventually. | 19:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cuomo says NY is 'past the high point' of cases → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 19:44 |
| _abc_ | navonod: that's like saying neutrons in Russia are different from American ones | 19:44 |
| l0ndoner[m] | so everyones free to travel ? | 19:44 |
| rajrajraj | https://i.imgur.com/km1Gg5k.mp4 | 19:44 |
| _abc_ | l0ndoner[m]: nothing to do with travel | 19:44 |
| LjL | _abc_, why do you say 10% is low? i assume that means they found 10% immune within the population tested (was it that town in Veneto?), not that only 10% of those who *had* it got antibodies | 19:44 |
| _abc_ | LjL: within the recovered previously sick | 19:45 |
| _abc_ | Which is bad news because it may mean a lot of people can get it repeatedly. | 19:45 |
| l0ndoner[m] | _abc_: virus is nothing to do with travel... Or you mean vaccines nothing to do with travel? | 19:45 |
| _abc_ | l0ndoner[m]: vaccines | 19:45 |
| _abc_ | LjL: the general idea seems to be antibody titre is higest for those who had the worst symptoms. | 19:46 |
| LjL | _abc_, uhm, okay, then that would be pretty damned low. | 19:46 |
| _abc_ | LjL: and the longest disease course. | 19:46 |
| _abc_ | With symptoms. | 19:46 |
| _abc_ | So people who likely had no fever and no symptoms may also have no immunity. | 19:46 |
| LjL | _abc_, but in the German town test, they found that most people had antibodies... they still found a VERY sizable portion who didn't, but i think it was like 30% of only the people below a certain age. that's a lot, that creates a bit risk for re-infection, but it's not 90%... | 19:47 |
| l0ndoner[m] | _abc_: No vaccines no travel or .... | 19:47 |
| _abc_ | So maybe, in the lucky case, something genetic about them will protect them again, or not. | 19:47 |
| LjL | _abc_, in both cases, though, we don't really know that they used valid, validated antibody tests, because no one has really agreed on which ones are to be considered valid yet | 19:47 |
| _abc_ | l0ndoner[m]: for travel and how it's sorted, go read on South Korea and Singapore. | 19:47 |
| l0ndoner[m] | singapore not doing so good | 19:48 |
| LjL | South Korea seems solid so far, though | 19:48 |
| LjL | Singapore is doing a Japan | 19:48 |
| l0ndoner[m] | I'll read up on Taiwan and South Korea | 19:48 |
| _abc_ | LjL: I have no way to answer that, nobody seems to know what the "real" R number is if asymptomatics are counted too. | 19:48 |
| rajrajraj | so is it true that the world peak is already past? | 19:48 |
| _abc_ | Some study said it could be 5.5 or such, in that case, 30% with no antibodies is bad news. | 19:48 |
| LjL | _abc_, and another studies says 15 | 19:49 |
| LjL | honestly | 19:49 |
| LjL | i am tempted to just stop paying attention | 19:49 |
| _abc_ | 15 is excessive imo. | 19:49 |
| LjL | nothing ever becomes more certain than it felt before | 19:49 |
| bin_bash | i can't see r0 of 15 o.o | 19:49 |
| LjL | if anything, the opposite | 19:49 |
| _abc_ | But who knows. This little crap can get aerosolized from dried excretions and droplets. | 19:50 |
| bin_bash | that would be more than measles | 19:50 |
| LjL | it would be huge | 19:50 |
| bin_bash | yea | 19:50 |
| LjL | but this thing did go all around the world pretty quickly, didn't it | 19:50 |
| _abc_ | yes | 19:50 |
| LjL | let me find where it was stated in my logs | 19:50 |
| _abc_ | Long incubation will do the go around things | 19:50 |
| _abc_ | -s | 19:50 |
| l0ndoner[m] | if my maths is right and they do daily tests of 100,000 and they pick up 20% of the tested population has it and that figure has platued.... Then the stats are only as good as the number of tests so there is way more than 20% of the population has it | 19:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:47 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/nJdeT0 | 19:51 |
| _abc_ | l0ndoner[m]: my conservative calculations based on what is going on here in Eastern Europe, is that when they announce N sick on day x it means 10 | 19:51 |
| _abc_ | l0ndoner[m]: my conservative calculations based on what is going on here in Eastern Europe, is that when they announce N sick on day x it means 10*N are actually sick on that day | 19:51 |
| _abc_ | With 9x to turn up in 14 days. | 19:51 |
| _abc_ | *10-14 | 19:52 |
| l0ndoner[m] | So my hunch is right... Shit | 19:52 |
| _abc_ | Based on that and a little log calculus one can see half the world's population will have had it or had contact with it in about 350 days from now at most | 19:52 |
| _abc_ | This is WITH isolation. Without the time-frame is about 90-120 days | 19:53 |
| _abc_ | My 10x counts the asymptomatics too. | 19:54 |
| l0ndoner[m] | so its about stemming the influx to A+E not about controlling the speread | 19:54 |
| l0ndoner[m] | spread* | 19:54 |
| _abc_ | more or less. | 19:54 |
| _abc_ | If there is good control then R will drop under 1.0 and the numbers will start dwindling. | 19:54 |
| _abc_ | So far nobody has good control. | 19:55 |
| _abc_ | I wonder what sets South Korea apart. | 19:55 |
| _abc_ | I also wonder what horrors are going on in NK. | 19:55 |
| l0ndoner[m] | UK is at between 0.5 and 1 | 19:55 |
| l0ndoner[m] | right now | 19:55 |
| _abc_ | That is reported to symptomatics, do not forget. | 19:55 |
| _abc_ | This video takes the cookie. So China spread this shit all over by not locking down soon enough, and now they blame foreigners? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQaNdTKQyLY | 19:56 |
| _abc_ | This is in the reddit link posted earlyer here. Scroll up. | 19:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cuomo says NY is 'past the high point' of cases → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 19:58 |
| wiiky | if the virus dies with alcohol at 70 degrees you could kill it by drinking 2 bottles of wiskey | 19:58 |
| l0ndoner[m] | I think i'll be dead if I drank 2 bottles whisky | 19:59 |
| _abc_ | So these muppets self brain washed themselves that foreigners are somewhat gulty of virus spreading ?! | 20:00 |
| _abc_ | WOW | 20:00 |
| wiiky | so i was right! | 20:00 |
| _abc_ | ? | 20:01 |
| l0ndoner[m] | you could say that about Bleach wiiky | 20:02 |
| wiiky | Bleach tastes bad | 20:02 |
| euod[m] | _abc_ there's some impact of blood group. | 20:04 |
| euod[m] | _abc_: some studies have shown people with O type are much less impacted than A. so different countries with varing groups will be hit differently one would assume. | 20:04 |
| wiiky | but drinking whiskey will definitely reduce virus numbers enough to prevent infection | 20:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 18:01 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Torino oggi. Smentita la notizia della rapina. Un gruppo di protestanti invita le persone a rompere la quarantena. → https://is.gd/JF1Trh | 20:05 |
| ubLIX | wiiky: ? | 20:05 |
| wiiky | yes? | 20:06 |
| LjL | i think the r/italy live posts are often not written by italian | 20:06 |
| LjL | "protestanti" doesn't mean what they think it means there, i suspect | 20:06 |
| LjL | i think they meant "protesters", but "protestanti" is "protestants" | 20:06 |
| ubLIX | wiiky: haven't been following. "drinking whisky.. etc" was sarcasm/joke of some sort? | 20:07 |
| genera | they were protesters of some kind too ^^ | 20:07 |
| wiiky | idk | 20:07 |
| wiiky | it might be true | 20:08 |
| LjL | genera, yeah, clearly the words are related, but still! | 20:08 |
| wiiky | have they tested it? | 20:08 |
| ubLIX | <wiiky> but drinking whiskey will definitely reduce virus numbers enough to prevent infection | 20:08 |
| genera | for how long do you have to keep the blood alcohol level? 1 week? | 20:08 |
| LjL | wiiky, it's been widely debunked as a myth | 20:08 |
| ubLIX | if you actually have no idea, as you now seem to be confessing, you should refrain from expressing certainties | 20:09 |
| ubLIX | ^ wiiky | 20:09 |
| LjL | of course, the first links i find to debunk that myth are from the WHO | 20:09 |
| LjL | and i no longer feel comfortably referring to the WHO as an authority, tbh | 20:09 |
| LjL | which i believe is their fault | 20:09 |
| LjL | it's on them, anyway | 20:09 |
| wiiky | lots of myths have been proven true | 20:10 |
| wiiky | havent you watched the myth busters | 20:10 |
| LjL | alcohol has very well known drawbacks, which are very well proven and documented | 20:10 |
| LjL | on the other hand, any positive effect it may have on COVID is based on... nobody even knows what, probably | 20:11 |
| LjL | someone saying it, and other repeating it | 20:11 |
| Spec | you mean like drinking vodka makes quarantine manageable? | 20:11 |
| Spec | that might not be a true statement, but i'm going to proceed as if it is | 20:11 |
| LjL | this is what makes it a myth. if it's true, then before anyone acts accordingly, it would be foolish to wait for anything but an actual medical study on it, a serious one | 20:11 |
| wiiky | cheers | 20:11 |
| LjL | Spec, you manage fine anyway, don't be silly | 20:11 |
| iz | to kill viruses you need like 70% alcohol concentration | 20:12 |
| Spec | it's true, as an introvert with no life this is ezpz | 20:12 |
| LjL | that describes me not you | 20:12 |
| ubLIX | LjL: a myth? since when was alcohol consumption ever supposed to reduce infection probability? | 20:13 |
| ubLIX | that is just ridiculous | 20:13 |
| bin_bash | never | 20:13 |
| ecks | thats why i only drink absinthe, it's 70% | 20:13 |
| iz | hehe | 20:13 |
| wiiky | its not | 20:13 |
| ubLIX | it is commonly known to suppress the immune system | 20:13 |
| LjL | ubLIX, maybe "myth" is not the right word if it implies a tradition of believing in it. it's just... something some people came up with, based on equating alcohol for sanitizing with alcohol for drinking (some very literally so, with the clearly associated FATAL risks) | 20:14 |
| wiiky | i mean prevent nfectioin | 20:14 |
| wiiky | not cure it | 20:14 |
| nb | sounds like the person who took aquarium cleaner tablets because it said chloroquine | 20:14 |
| nb | and died | 20:14 |
| iz | (joking aside, once it's in you it gets diluted and won't do anything helpful to "sterilize" your insides | 20:14 |
| bin_bash | wiiky: alcohol does not prevent infection | 20:14 |
| wiiky | just like cleaning hands with alcohol does | 20:14 |
| iz | yeah, it seems more just like someone getting counfused about drinking alcohol and alcohol used to disinfect | 20:15 |
| iz | ^ case in point | 20:15 |
| kotabug | https://linkto.run/p/BC9WJ89A | 20:15 |
| LjL | wiiky, but it won't. why would it? even if it were sufficient somehow to kill the virus, you'd have to keep drinking it all the time (if you want an excuse to do that, really, just do it without an excuse), and then the virus can get into your respiratory tract through routes that have little to do with where the alcohol is | 20:15 |
| Spec | wiiky: ah yeah, if you breathe the whiskey that might do it as a one-time prevention | 20:15 |
| bin_bash | by killing you | 20:15 |
| Spec | ^ | 20:15 |
| wiiky | alcohol used to disinfect thorough | 20:15 |
| iz | also alcohol in your bloodstream is quite diluted, if it was 70% in your bloodstream you would be dead | 20:15 |
| LjL | and if you maintain it will... where's a study showing alcoholics don't get COVID...? or anything else that actually provides some ground for even just beginning to believe it | 20:16 |
| Spec | ubLIX: thx | 20:17 |
| Spec | the only way liquor is going to help is to relax at home and stay away from infected :D | 20:18 |
| LjL | but also it's easy in this situation to overdo the liquor drinking a little... and later a lot | 20:18 |
| LjL | so i'd be cautious and aware of that possibility | 20:18 |
| LjL | even for people who are not normally drawn to addictions | 20:19 |
| LjL | this is not the situation any of us where used to live in | 20:19 |
| LjL | with rare exceptions | 20:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cuomo says NY is 'past the high point' of cases → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 20:20 |
| LjL | no Cuomo, don't say that kind of stuff, or Trump will just tell his minions to bang at your door until you "reopen the state" | 20:20 |
| euod[m] | LjL: heh, did you see that all of the "liberate" websites were made on the same hour, by a single person, along with all the facebook groups? | 20:21 |
| LjL | nope | 20:21 |
| euod[m] | well, they were. | 20:21 |
| LjL | i am a bit detached, i don't even *have* a facebook account :P | 20:21 |
| LjL | not too surprising | 20:21 |
| euod[m] | nor do I. | 20:21 |
| euod[m] | facebook is not a useful tool and just makes people depressed. | 20:21 |
| bin_bash | it's useful for meming and shaming | 20:23 |
| _abc_ | You can disambiguate in writing using Protestants for the religion. Sorry was scrolled up. | 20:23 |
| darsie | ubLIX: I'm sorry, kotabug published this covid-19 related poll in another channel and I told her it might be on topic here. | 20:28 |
| ubLIX | darsie: it wasn't immediately obvious (to my browser) that it was related to covid-19; the nick joined and immediately posted the url (and nothing else) without comment or asking | 20:30 |
| ubLIX | in spite of now being aware of the covid-19 connection, given the join/post behaviour, i am disinclined to spend the time auditing the site at the given url; LjL, who sets policy here, might give you a different answer | 20:31 |
| darsie | It's a poll: "are you stressing from online schoolwork" yes/no | 20:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 18:27 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito → https://is.gd/HjOAAj | 20:34 |
| ubLIX | s/policy/the tone/ | 20:35 |
| ubLIX | i would expect a new-join, here with the purpose of petitioning channel users for their time, to introduce themselves and to introduce the (in this case) poll and its site, rather than leave it to ops and users to invest time trying to assess the value/nefariousness of the posted url | 20:40 |
| darsie | Yeah, non explaining URLs suck. | 20:41 |
| ubLIX | darsie: do you give a character reference for the originator | 20:41 |
| darsie | It's a semiregular in #peoplesproblems with problems. Generally non abusive. | 20:42 |
| ubLIX | generally? :) | 20:43 |
| darsie | I don't remember all their posts. | 20:43 |
| darsie | Or any abusive posts. | 20:43 |
| darsie | Possibly an IRC naive person joining this channel over a websites webchat. | 20:44 |
| genera | itz coded | 20:47 |
| ubLIX | absent any insight into this character beyond what i have seen, and since i will not be auditing the site, i see no value in lifting the ban. however, this is not my channel. i defer to LjL better judgement | 20:48 |
| darsie | I didn't ask for a lift. I just apologized. | 20:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:33 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities pass 100,000, but death rate slows in Spain and Netherlands → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 20:48 |
| darsie | In case I did something wrong. | 20:49 |
| darsie | Of which I'm not sure. | 20:49 |
| ubLIX | i don't think you recommending a channel can be construed as doing something wrong; i don't see how you could be responsible for subsequent behaviour | 20:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:53 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cuomo says NY is 'past the high point' of cases → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 20:56 |
| sh4d0wme[m] | Hey Brainstorm (if you are not a bot) 100.000 fatalities means 100.000 MORE than something, like MORE than past deaths in the same period of another year? Or what are the criteria to assign 100.000 to corona virus? Copresence of the virus? | 20:56 |
| Brainstorm | Yo sh4d0wme[m]! | 20:56 |
| darsie | ok | 20:57 |
| ubLIX | sh4d0wme[m], Brainstorm is a bot | 20:59 |
| genera | 100.000 with diagnosis corona CoV | 21:02 |
| genera | i would guess | 21:03 |
| sh4d0wme[m] | Great thanks! ... Bullsh*t bot, then, perhaps. Is this a place for (at least some) scientific data, or just invented numbers? | 21:03 |
| genera | at least for .de those are probably the numbers from RKI | 21:03 |
| LjL | sh4d0wme[m], if you want to call it a bullshit bot, it makes no different whether or not you place an asterisk on "shit", really | 21:03 |
| LjL | it is my bot | 21:03 |
| LjL | it is based on data that government present | 21:03 |
| Butterfly^ | https://www.jpost.com/International/Germanys-largest-paper-to-Chinas-president-Youre-endangering-the-world-625074 Germany’s largest paper to China's president: You're endangering the world. "You [Jinping], your government and your scientists had to know long ago that coronavirus is highly infectious, but you left the world in the dark about it." | 21:04 |
| LjL | in a way that is supposedly standardized, but practically not so much | 21:04 |
| LjL | if you find that it is so inconsistent as to be useless, then don't use it | 21:04 |
| LjL | i do not have anything better to offer at this time | 21:04 |
| _abc_ | Is Butterfly^ also a bot/headline poster? | 21:04 |
| LjL | no | 21:04 |
| Butterfly^ | nope | 21:04 |
| _abc_ | ok | 21:04 |
| Butterfly^ | interesting article, thought it needed to be shared in here | 21:05 |
| LjL | Butterfly^, i am not sure that's fair | 21:05 |
| Butterfly^ | LjL : what's not fair? | 21:05 |
| _abc_ | Well Bild is a tabloid of a certain kind so it's not surprizing. BUT in the light of other things done in China now with foreigners, who are blamed at point blank for spreading the virus! it may not be out of place. | 21:05 |
| LjL | Butterfly^, in Italy, *before* we got hit hard by the epidemic in Lombardy, most of our politicians, our government, were airing their mouths with phrases like "We must be thankful to China because the draconian measures they took in Wuhan has given us all time to prepare" | 21:05 |
| LjL | but they didn't prepare | 21:05 |
| LjL | they just prepared... their speeches | 21:06 |
| LjL | and then we were actually hit, and we were utterly unprepared, and we paid a high price for that, still paying | 21:06 |
| Butterfly^ | China still made a big mistake by trying to silence it in the first weeks | 21:06 |
| _abc_ | LjL: If you bothered to watch my youtube links above, you'd know they shut down Wuhan for local in-China traffic BUT LEFT THE AIRPORT OPEN FOR INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL | 21:06 |
| LjL | if China hid or downplayed something... well, maybe they did, but *our government* CLAIMED that they bought us time, yet, visibly, didn't USE that time | 21:06 |
| LjL | that time was factually available | 21:06 |
| LjL | there might have been MORE time if China had spoken up even earlier | 21:07 |
| Spec | my government did that, too | 21:07 |
| Spec | except they said there was no problem | 21:07 |
| _abc_ | LjL: Italy probably got it's 1st infection via possibly Austria or Switzerland from Wuhan | 21:07 |
| LjL | but would it have been used? since we didn't even use the time we DID have | 21:07 |
| Butterfly^ | sure, cause of their draconic measures (which aren't even possible in most of the world), they were able to seriously stop the spread, but that doesn't forgive them trying to hide it for weeks | 21:07 |
| Spec | and this would all just sorta *flails hands* wash on through and away | 21:07 |
| LjL | _abc_, okay you're right, i haven't bothered to watch the youtube links above | 21:07 |
| LjL | in fact i cannot be bothered doing it now either | 21:07 |
| _abc_ | Spec: which one | 21:07 |
| LjL | so i'm just saying things based on what i can be bothered to say | 21:07 |
| LjL | which is probably an overly low standard | 21:07 |
| _abc_ | LjL: right so keep in mind causality. Cause predates effect | 21:08 |
| _abc_ | oops | 21:08 |
| _abc_ | Spec: which country? | 21:08 |
| Spec | _abc_: the united states | 21:08 |
| Arsanerit | I live in Germany. From a health perspective, Germany appears to handle it rather well. | 21:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 19:07 UTC: Aggiornamento 19/04: submitted by /u/maikk_ to r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA → https://is.gd/Es2E7K | 21:10 |
| genera | we continued to play one soccer game after another | 21:12 |
| Butterfly^ | https://twitter.com/acjphoto/status/1250974852611276805 People are so ready to get back to life forgetting that in 1918 the second wave of the Spanish Flu reportedly killed 20-50 million. The first wave only killed 3-5 million. History does indeed repeat. | 21:14 |
| _abc_ | Wow this is so bad. USA and elsewhere are reaching the conclusion ventilators actually may kill a lot of patients and CPAP style oxygen may be better while here in Eastern Europe they ramp up ventilator purchase and use. | 21:15 |
| _abc_ | Butterfly^: yes that is a serious consideration. | 21:15 |
| ubLIX | _abc_: i did click through to your youtube link for the serpentza channel; he does a tolerable job of seeming measured, but the only charge i found convincing (if true as asserted) was the mention of the extent to which Chinese firms bought and shipped in medical supplies from other countries; not allowing foreign nationals to leave would be more or less illegal, so that charge doesn't stick | 21:16 |
| ubLIX | clicking through to the "all videos" section of his channel encourages the suspicion the channel is something like the video version of Germany's rag tabloid Bild | 21:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:10 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities pass 100,000, but death rate slows in Spain and Netherlands → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 21:17 |
| Butterfly^ | _abc_ https://imgur.com/gallery/RkTqagB TL;DR: The same person or group is making fake websites and fb groups to organize protests all across the USA. They use the same format for Every website and group. It’s almost clear they’re organizing these things with malicious intentions to sole dissent & divide people further. | 21:18 |
| dunnp | so, where are we here on the stanford paper? | 21:20 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: what do you mean? | 21:21 |
| dunnp | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1.full.pdf | 21:22 |
| dunnp | 50x-85x un-reported cases | 21:22 |
| dunnp | going to be used as a push to re-open | 21:22 |
| dunnp | I assumed it was already discussed here since it came out a few days ago | 21:23 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: woah, sounds likely, not sure what's the testing policy around there | 21:23 |
| dunnp | imo the study is fundamentally flawed | 21:24 |
| mefistofeles | "The population prevalence of SARS-CoV-2antibodies in Santa Clara County implies that the infection is much more widespread than indicated by the numberof confirmed cases. " | 21:24 |
| dunnp | 50-85x doesn't kive with anything else we've seen | 21:24 |
| mefistofeles | that's already well-known, crappy conclusion there | 21:24 |
| dunnp | *jive | 21:24 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: well, it depends on the testing, but yeah, I don't see a reason why Santa Clara County should be that different | 21:25 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: do they say something about that? | 21:25 |
| Arsanerit | In my district there are 354,092 inhabitants, 15 are confirmed to have died from COVID-19, 394 have tested positively, but I don't know how many have been tested. | 21:25 |
| dunnp | not really | 21:28 |
| dunnp | extrapolating this, all of italy or the entire city of new york would be infected to have the current numbers | 21:28 |
| dunnp | so clearly that is wrong | 21:28 |
| _abc_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnShqaHdYgo | 21:29 |
| _abc_ | 14% of Covid patients who need intubation survive. | 21:30 |
| dunnp | i've seen a bit higher than that _abc_ | 21:32 |
| _abc_ | I'd trust Dr. Hansen vs others. And yes it varies but the number he said covers everything. Not just people who got off the respirator, but also the aftermath. | 21:33 |
| dunnp | trust him over stats from hospitals cool | 21:33 |
| dunnp | he is just refering to one report in that video | 21:34 |
| dunnp | and very small numbers.. just 22 people | 21:35 |
| Arsanerit | I've never been to Turkmenistan | 21:36 |
| darsie | Arsanerit: Then you have no idea how many are infected. Ideally they'd make random tests to get an idea how many are infected in total. | 21:37 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, I've seen similar numbers, around 80% for those in ICUs | 21:37 |
| Arsanerit | darsie: Yes, of course. | 21:37 |
| Arsanerit | Almost no country has a good idea how many are infected. | 21:38 |
| darsie | Arsanerit: Maybe they are covering something up. Austria publishes positive and negative test numbers. | 21:38 |
| Arsanerit | And if they do a sample, the result of that study is out of date as soon as it's gone. | 21:38 |
| darsie | Austria did random samples to assess total infected. | 21:38 |
| _abc_ | Arsanerit: 2 samples about 10 days apart are all you need to know for now | 21:38 |
| Arsanerit | darsie: The total number tested is published, but I don't know if that's broken down per district. | 21:39 |
| _abc_ | Arsanerit: 2 random samples | 21:39 |
| _abc_ | From that the speed of spread can be calculated. | 21:39 |
| Arsanerit | darsie: It just isn't on https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/478220a4c454480e823b17327b2bf1d4/page/page_1/ but that doesn't mean it's not published somewhere else. | 21:39 |
| Arsanerit | There are 150,000 empty hospital beds in Germany and ICUs are 80% empty too. They're still building an emergency hospital but they'll probably never need it, although talk has been to move all the COVID-19 there so that the regular hospital can resume with operations that were cancelled/postponed to make room for COVID-19. | 21:40 |
| Arsanerit | _abc_: that speed is still a point measurement, you want to know how the speed develops | 21:40 |
| _abc_ | I know Italians and others were flown / train shipped to Germany Arsanerit | 21:40 |
| Arsanerit | _abc_: yes, French too | 21:40 |
| _abc_ | Arsanerit: if nothing is being done you have no reason to believe the speed changes. | 21:41 |
| Arsanerit | _abc_: A lot is being done. | 21:41 |
| _abc_ | To find out speed of change a 3rd random test is needed. | 21:41 |
| Arsanerit | Reportedly, the R₀ is down to 0.7 in Germany. | 21:41 |
| _abc_ | Another 10 days later | 21:41 |
| _abc_ | Arsanerit: that is good. Assuming no surprises. | 21:41 |
| Arsanerit | Now the discussion here is about how cautious to be in starting to re-open things. | 21:41 |
| _abc_ | Let's hope this crap is not mutating easily. | 21:42 |
| Arsanerit | Don't want R₀ to rise above 1 again. | 21:42 |
| Arsanerit | And hopefully people who've had it are immune for a while. | 21:42 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: your numbers do not add up, even use the highest estimate of 85x, for Italy that's around 17million, still way below the total population | 21:42 |
| _abc_ | Arsanerit: no doubt they will track it and stop opening more things. | 21:42 |
| Arsanerit | _abc_: Yes, I do believe they know what they are doing. | 21:42 |
| Arsanerit | gn | 21:42 |
| _abc_ | Arsanerit: Italian study of covid survivors showed only 10% had antibodies. But no-one knows how accurate the test was. | 21:42 |
| Arsanerit | bbl | 21:42 |
| wiiky | 10%of what? | 21:44 |
| dunnp | ah you're right mefistofeles got that number wrong | 21:44 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: but yeah, I still think it's way off | 21:44 |
| dunnp | still well beyond what is reasonable | 21:45 |
| _abc_ | I am looking for the article which was cited without citing. | 21:45 |
| mefistofeles | specially in the NY case | 21:45 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: yes | 21:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 19:43 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Ultimo aggiornamento per la sera → https://is.gd/yJti7Z | 21:46 |
| dunnp | I think that I'll just stay at home | 21:46 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: still, it'sa preprint, nothing really conclusive yet | 21:47 |
| mefistofeles | if I had the time I'd check the methods | 21:47 |
| _abc_ | So in Veneto they wanted to start antibody testing on Apr 3rd, apparently they did that already and there is a partial result ? Which I cannot find. | 21:47 |
| _abc_ | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8214631/Scottish-newsagent-sells-coronavirus-antibody-test-kits-30-each.html "illegal" tests? Why the fsck are idiots making these illegal? | 21:48 |
| _abc_ | Just test twice to get more accurace. | 21:49 |
| _abc_ | *y | 21:49 |
| _abc_ | I hope it is specific enough. | 21:49 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: that weighting seems a bit off or not correctly justified, did you see that? | 21:49 |
| ecks | how do you know testing twice will make it more accurate? | 21:49 |
| ecks | it really depends on what is causing the error in the result | 21:49 |
| dunnp | yea the FP rate as well - lots of twitter discussions | 21:49 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: FP meaning? | 21:50 |
| dunnp | false positive | 21:50 |
| mefistofeles | ah ok | 21:50 |
| _abc_ | specificity is what pushes the test result bias-wise towards being more accurate or less accurate. | 21:51 |
| _abc_ | When repeatedly applied. | 21:51 |
| _abc_ | This explains everything about specificity math and so on. It is a bit long winded and took me 3 reads to grasp it but this is the way one should look at numbers. https://towardsdatascience.com/statistics-and-unreliable-tests-coronavirus-is-difficult-to-contain-e113b5c0967c?gi=e58f5db8b350 | 21:54 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: wtf? you were muted? | 21:54 |
| _abc_ | Err that is a nasty tracker tail. Clip everything from ? to end. | 21:54 |
| _abc_ | Scroll down a bit for the Pr calculations. In any case a 92% accurate test is VERY MUCH more than nothing. | 21:55 |
| _abc_ | About immunity to cov19 and other viruses. Interesting. http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/ | 21:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US death toll surpasses 40,000, Cuomo says NY is 'past the high point' of cases → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 22:07 |
| wiiky | cant we get a substance that target ans destroy capsid protein? | 22:35 |
| MinceR | not sure, we mostly destroy the envelope instead, with soap :> | 22:36 |
| MinceR | or UV radiation | 22:36 |
| wiiky | inside the patients | 22:38 |
| ryouma | i was wondering if there aws a safe detergent you could use in your nose, eyes, or pharynx | 22:45 |
| wiiky | alcohol | 22:45 |
| wiiky | except eyes | 22:46 |
| ryouma | if we really wanted to, could we eliminate the virus with all the epidemiology measures put together? | 22:46 |
| bin_bash | no | 22:46 |
| livebrain | alcohol in your mouth or nose ? | 22:46 |
| bin_bash | alcohol isn't a detergent, first of all | 22:46 |
| ryouma | mre rations for everybody, stay at home for everybody, 2 months, worldwide, only excpetions being health reasons | 22:46 |
| wiiky | alcohol in your mouth | 22:46 |
| wiiky | pharynx | 22:47 |
| livebrain | ethanol ? | 22:47 |
| ryouma | normal alcohol like vodka too weak; everclear too full of benzene or something and burns your esophagus | 22:47 |
| bin_bash | wiiky: stop saying that | 22:48 |
| bin_bash | it's not true | 22:48 |
| wiiky | stay at home for everybody, 2 months and die of famine | 22:48 |
| bin_bash | lol | 22:48 |
| ryouma | is there a tsunami | 22:50 |
| ryouma | are the reactors on the coast | 22:50 |
| l0ndoner[m] | no nukes in Japan | 22:50 |
| ryouma | bah search engine not searching for the place names | 22:51 |
| ryouma | "As of February 2019, there are 42 operable reactors in Japan." 9 are operating. | 22:52 |
| ryouma | supposedly | 22:52 |
| l0ndoner[m] | really they said after tsunami all nukes shut down... I stand corrected | 22:52 |
| ryouma | where does one go to look up corrdintes like 38.9, 142.1 | 22:56 |
| l0ndoner[m] | google maps? | 22:56 |
| l0ndoner[m] | just off coast Japan | 22:58 |
| ryouma | perhaps Synapsestorm could say where it was near | 22:58 |
| ryouma | honsho is enormous | 22:58 |
| ryouma | u | 22:58 |
| LjL | ryouma, no, tsunami with a 6.1 is extremely unlikely | 23:00 |
| LjL | ryouma, rule of thumb, M7 or above, and it needs to be shallow | 23:00 |
| LjL | ryouma, Fukushima reactor was/is definitely on the coast though | 23:01 |
| LjL | i can't read enough of those city names, i just know none of them is Tokyo | 23:01 |
| LjL | %tr <ja 気仙沼市, 大船渡市, 釜石市, 石巻市 | 23:01 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Japanese to English: Kesennuma City, Ofunato City, Kamaishi City, Ishinomaki City (MyMemory, Google) | 23:01 |
| LjL | okay so nowhere near fukushima... i think these are to the south of tokyo | 23:02 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Dr. Oz apologizes for saying reopening schools is an "appetizing opportunity" because it would only kill 2-3% more people (10088 votes) | https://redd.it/g46aoa | 23:04 |
| ryouma | LjL: those are the ones that are not close i think | 23:05 |
| LjL | right | 23:05 |
| LjL | wait, no | 23:05 |
| LjL | what do you mean? | 23:05 |
| ryouma | "likely felt 290 km away (in 気仙沼市, 大船渡市, 釜石市, 石巻 市…)" | 23:05 |
| ryouma | ambiguous | 23:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:54 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities pass 100,000, but death rate slows in Spain and Netherlands → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 23:05 |
| LjL | ryouma, hm i tried to make it clear but concise, but perhapt's it's ambiguoous | 23:05 |
| _abc_ | https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/heroes-of-the-pandemic-a-canadian-professor-has-a-peanut-butter-sniff-test-to-combat-covid-19?video_autoplay=true | 23:06 |
| LjL | ryouma, what it means is "likely felt up to 290 km away, in cities such as blah blah", but the cities themselves are listed based on a combination of closeness to the epicenter and population | 23:06 |
| _abc_ | this only catches people who do not have natural ansomia for example from cleaning with bleach every day. Hypochlorite. | 23:06 |
| LjL | ryouma, so if it's very close to the epicenter it gets listed even if it's small, and if it's a very large city it gets listed even if it's not exceptionally close to the epicenter | 23:06 |
| ryouma | i ahve anosmia, so it is not a useful suymptom for me, nor do i have thermometer, and i frequently cough anyway, so it's guesswork | 23:07 |
| LjL | _abc_, has it somehow been established that anosmia is a common or near-universal symptom? i was still under the understanding that it was "sensational" because people found it unusual and because it had been overlooked, but that it's probably just a smallish proportion of patients having it | 23:15 |
| aradesh | LjL: did you hear about this? my mum knew that family https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/burton/heartbreak-mum-dad-daughter-die-4042226 (i posted it earlier today, but i dunno if you saw) | 23:17 |
| LjL | did not see | 23:17 |
| aradesh | she lived on the same street as the family as a child, and was in the same class at school as one of the other kids in the family | 23:17 |
| ryouma | i saw a venn diagram that suggested it was significant | 23:18 |
| ryouma | i presume it goes awy when you get better? | 23:18 |
| aradesh | it all feels kinda different when you have some sort of connection, even a hazy one, with people involved | 23:19 |
| LjL | aradesh, i bet it suddenly silences some "it's just a flu" people. but there are countless more. | 23:20 |
| ryouma | for what it is worth https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01023-2 | 23:21 |
| ryouma | i want to see this but it is denying me access https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Venn-diagram-describing-the-frequency-of-reported-allergic-rhinitis-nasal-blockage_fig4_49638737 | 23:21 |
| ryouma | fuck the modern internet | 23:22 |
| _abc_ | https://www.healthing.ca/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus/florida-declares-wrestling-an-essential-service | 23:22 |
| aradesh | LjL: yeah... i still know a guy online who constantly is like, "why are not just the old people on lock down? why do i have to stay at home?" | 23:23 |
| aradesh | and calls it the flu | 23:23 |
| _abc_ | LjL: nobody knows exactly about anosmia but apparently it is a thing with covid. Until proper studies are made the only reason it is interesting is, it may allow asymptomatics to isolate on that cue and prevent spreading like that. | 23:23 |
| aradesh | is there any reason why, in principle, we couldn't create a vaccine for the common cold? | 23:24 |
| aradesh | or, all the different common colds | 23:24 |
| LjL | _abc_, i guess so, although if it's just a small percentage, it runs the risk that, yes, they'll self-isolate when they otherwise wouldn't, but then some other idiots will NOT self-isolate when they otherwise would, just because they can smell things, and automatically assume that means they don't have it. you always get those. | 23:24 |
| _abc_ | aradesh: yes, there is no one common cold, it mutates all the time. | 23:24 |
| aradesh | but like, maybe a new vaccine each year? like the flu vaccines | 23:25 |
| _abc_ | aradesh: by the time you have a vaccine the next virus is out and the vaccine is useless. | 23:25 |
| LjL | aradesh, many more viruses | 23:25 |
| _abc_ | LjL: apparently it is like 30% or so. | 23:25 |
| LjL | _abc_, okay, in that case it's not negligible | 23:25 |
| aradesh | i see. but then how do flu vaccines work? surely they have the same problem with those | 23:25 |
| LjL | aradesh, The most commonly implicated virus is a rhinovirus (30–80%), a type of picornavirus with 99 known serotypes.[29][30] Other commonly implicated viruses include human coronaviruses (≈ 15%),[31][32] influenza viruses (10–15%),[33] adenoviruses (5%),[33] human respiratory syncytial virus (orthopneumovirus), enteroviruses other than rhinoviruses, human parainfluenza viruses, and human metapneumovirus.[34] Frequently more than one vir | 23:25 |
| LjL | us is present.[35] In total, more than 200 viral types are associated with colds.[3] | 23:25 |
| LjL | aradesh, flu vaccines work... sometimes | 23:25 |
| _abc_ | aradesh: yes but flu is somewhat recurrent and also it tends to start in some country (China) and propagate with the seasons around the globe so there is some hint as to which vaccine exactly is to be created. It is not perfect even so. | 23:26 |
| LjL | aradesh, they select what are predicted to be the most common strains for the years, and make a "cocktail" of vaccines for those. you are NOT guaranteed to be protected. it's just a lowering of probabilities | 23:26 |
| LjL | which is still important because flu causes a lot of deaths and economic damage | 23:26 |
| ubLIX | ryouma: try this: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1186/1465-9921-11-163 | 23:26 |
| LjL | but personally, one person who got the vaccine can still get some flu just fine | 23:26 |
| livebrain | on another sidenote, does anyone knows how to ignore pm's from unregistered users on freenode ? | 23:27 |
| _abc_ | I mean it starts in China for calendaristic reasons, have to determine a datum where it starts each year to make any sense. | 23:27 |
| LjL | livebrain, umode +R | 23:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:21 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Nate Silver su Twitter: "US daily numbers via @COVID19Tracking: Newly-reported deaths: Today: 1,654 Yesterday: 1,774 One week ago (4/12): 1,496 Newly-reported cases: T: 27K Y: 28K 4/12: 29K Newly-reported tests: T: 167K Y: 141K 4/12: 140K Share of tests positive: T: 16% Y: 20% 4/12: 21%" → https://is.gd/UFovBG | 23:27 |
| LjL | livebrain, or as a compromise, umode +g | 23:27 |
| livebrain | thank you LjL | 23:27 |
| ubLIX | ryouma: alternatively: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Linda_Ekerljung/publication/49638737_Multi-symptom_asthma_is_closely_related_to_nasal_blockage_rhinorrhea_and_symptoms_of_chronic_rhinosinusitis-evidence_from_the_West_Sweden_Asthma_Study/links/09e4150f50d914909e000000/Multi-symptom-asthma-is-closely-related-to-nasal-blockage-rhinorrhea-and-symptoms-of-chronic-rhinosinusitis-evidence-from-the-West-Sweden-Asthma-Study.pdf | 23:30 |
| ubLIX | oops, sry | 23:30 |
| livebrain | yes +g is prefered :) | 23:34 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Coronavirus Has Now Killed More People in US than 2018-2019 Flu Season (10696 votes) | https://redd.it/g4b9r1 | 23:34 |
| livebrain | spammers are annoying | 23:34 |
| ryouma | ubLIX: thanks. the first one opened, but doesn't seem to have the diagramt hat included anosmia that was associated, while the second one doesn't like my computer either. | 23:36 |
| heather | bot update newbie | 23:36 |
| ubLIX | ryouma: that is odd; researchgate don't seem to be restricting that article | 23:36 |
| ubLIX | ryouma: anosmia doesn't appear in the excerpt from your original link either, except in the citations | 23:39 |
| wiiky | Anosmia is commo in any flu | 23:40 |
| ryouma | ubLIX: a search engine showed somethign interesting in images | 23:40 |
| Butterfly^ | https://twitter.com/MarshallCohen/status/1249753457046835200 | 23:41 |
| ryouma | it's ok, just looked like it might be useful | 23:41 |
| Butterfly^ | ✓@MarshallCohen (Marshall Cohen): THREAD: This is the true human cost of #COVID that you don't see on TV very often. CNN obtained photos from ER staff at a Detroit hospital, showing bodies pilled up in vacant spaces because the morgue was full. Nearly 1,500 people have died in Michigan, and 23,000 nationwide. https://t.co/zqzkv1sZAB | 23:41 |
| ryouma | is all | 23:41 |
| wiiky | i had a flu were the food actually tasted bad | 23:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CDC at 21:30 UTC: COVID-19 Forecasts for the United States: CDC works with partners to bring together weekly forecasts for COVID-19 deaths in one place. These forecasts have been developed independently and shared publicly. It is important to bring these forecasts together to help understand how they compare with each other and how much [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/yJtqEF | 23:41 |
| ryouma | so now that is the kind of thing that needs to be shown in images in news that american denialist morons regularly consume, alongside the propaganda for various interests that i suspect is everywhere now | 23:42 |
| Butterfly^ | https://twitter.com/libbybakalar/status/1249510348454907906 I realize this is a controversial take but maybe being one blown tire, one broken bone, or one paycheck away from homelessness & financial ruin at all times isn’t actually “freedom” the way we were raised to believe it is. | 23:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:45 UTC: /u/slakmehl: BBC News (World) su Twitter: "US coronavirus death toll surpasses 41,000 https://t.co/Fw7UiMQNHM… " → https://is.gd/y1sEiE | 23:48 |
| spybert | Butterfly^: Madison Avenue spends a great deal of money to convince people to "buy it now" and live for the moment. It maximizes sales and corporate profits at the expense of the quality of life for the individual consumer. | 23:49 |
| spybert | Butterfly^: The sad fact is that the economy depends on people spending money they don't have to buy things they don't need :-( | 23:51 |
| ryouma | does it? | 23:52 |
| Butterfly^ | spybert : fucked up, right? | 23:52 |
| spybert | Butterfly^: Very much so. The news media don't even want to show things like dead bodies or discuss in any way the fact people aren't immortal, because that might make people think about things that cause them to not buy stuff | 23:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US death toll surpasses 40,000, Cuomo says NY is 'past the high point' of cases → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 23:56 |
| Butterfly^ | shit is going to hit the fan before we hit July | 23:58 |
| Butterfly^ | who knows how many people are dying at home? | 23:58 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: ‘We hear you, dad': A daughter stays on the phone for hours and hours as her father dies alone from coronavirus (10002 votes) | https://redd.it/g48fyc | 23:58 |
| Butterfly^ | once temperatures increase, and dead people start rotting in their apartments, you'll start seeing complaints about smells, and 100's or 1000's of people being found death in their own homes | 23:58 |
| _abc_ | Butterfly^: wow nice you are. Not. | 23:59 |
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