| Hoffman | _abc_: there's nothing not-nice about that | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Hoffman | stop your weird tone policing | 00:00 |
| _abc_ | It's sad. USA? | 00:00 |
| Hoffman | its not like Butterfly^ is causing the deaths | 00:00 |
| _abc_ | Sure. Can you please not thought police the channel. | 00:00 |
| Hoffman | can you please not thought police the channel | 00:00 |
| Hoffman | "wow nice you are. not" | 00:00 |
| Hoffman | "it's sad" | 00:00 |
| Hoffman | etc | 00:00 |
| Hoffman | stop telling me facts that make me sad!!! only happy facts during this global catastrophic deathstravaganza! | 00:01 |
| _abc_ | How sudden can the transition from sick to incapacitated be in covid disease? There were some early pictures from Wuhan with people dropping dead on the street? Very sudden I guess? | 00:01 |
| Butterfly^ | _abc_ : what's not nice about me? | 00:01 |
| Butterfly^ | you can't deal with facts? | 00:01 |
| _abc_ | Butterfly^: the issue with the corpses being found by smell | 00:01 |
| Butterfly^ | _abc_ : it's already happening in various countries | 00:02 |
| Butterfly^ | _abc_ : why am i not nice when i'm just stating facts? | 00:02 |
| _abc_ | Ok. | 00:02 |
| Hoffman | _abc_: yes, the transition happens quite rapidly | 00:02 |
| Butterfly^ | _abc_ : China reported close to 1500 extra deaths in the last week, why? cause they found rotting corpses of people who died at home | 00:02 |
| Hoffman | as in, one moment youre fine | 00:02 |
| Hoffman | the next moment, there's pain in the chest, and you cant catch your breath, and it hurts to try | 00:03 |
| Hoffman | and you have to cough, and it hurts to cough | 00:03 |
| Butterfly^ | _abc_ : reality can be brutal, but this is what's happening, and this is what will happen in nearly all countries that have a serious number of corona infections | 00:04 |
| LjL | ubLIX, vascular issues more than lung issues, you said? https://apnews.com/627c561c83b01c1035cf5c52bee6aa4d | 00:06 |
| LjL | %title | 00:06 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From apnews.com: Broadway star Nick Cordero has leg amputation due to virus | 00:06 |
| _abc_ | Reading headlines, looks like Germany is talking about restarting inland tourism. North sea in particular. | 00:06 |
| LjL | if they think they're doing so good... the numbers say they are, compared to the rest of us *shrug* | 00:07 |
| _abc_ | I think most countries which heavily relied on tourism are somewhat fscked on the 2-3 years outlook scale. | 00:08 |
| _abc_ | It boggles my mind that with the pandeimc starting up people were happily boarding cruise ships. We know how that went. | 00:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:55 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Europe fatalities pass 100,000, but death rate slows in Spain and Netherlands → https://is.gd/oYmFlL | 00:10 |
| Hoffman | _abc_: lol | 00:11 |
| Hoffman | "Im gettin such a bargain!!!" | 00:11 |
| ubLIX | LjL: eech that article reads like he's been sedated the whole time and won't know his leg has been amputated until he wakes up | 00:11 |
| txbubba | yeah and now his career is probably over too | 00:11 |
| LjL | there's a reason many/most amputees are traumatized | 00:12 |
| _abc_ | ubLIX: do you think he'll be happy waking up. | 00:12 |
| ubLIX | he might not wake up if he is still on a ventilator | 00:12 |
| berndj | _abc_, were those wuhan people dropping *dead* or just unconscious? | 00:13 |
| _abc_ | I wonder if the blood clotting thing is caused by the virus or by the immune reaction. | 00:13 |
| livebrain | _abc_: my country is a good example of that | 00:13 |
| _abc_ | berndj: dead | 00:13 |
| _abc_ | berndj: presumably carried the disease self medicating then poof. | 00:13 |
| livebrain | 23:09 < _abc_> I think most countries which heavily relied on tourism are somewhat fscked on the 2-3 years outlook scale. | 00:13 |
| livebrain | my country is really screwed | 00:13 |
| _abc_ | livebrain: ok, sad | 00:13 |
| _abc_ | Italy? | 00:14 |
| livebrain | portugal | 00:14 |
| livebrain | entire streets are empty | 00:14 |
| _abc_ | Oh. .pt does have some industry and people are used to crises, the financial crisis was horrible there. | 00:14 |
| livebrain | with hotels, hostels or arbnb | 00:14 |
| livebrain | entire streets | 00:14 |
| livebrain | empty | 00:14 |
| _abc_ | livebrain: of course, it is the same everywhere. | 00:15 |
| _abc_ | Honestly, I do not miss mass tourism at all. | 00:15 |
| livebrain | i dont know other places | 00:15 |
| livebrain | but its quite surreal | 00:15 |
| _abc_ | Fascinating how Venice's canals are clear water with fishes now. | 00:15 |
| livebrain | we could walk and all we see is tourism | 00:15 |
| _abc_ | livebrain: same everywhere. | 00:15 |
| livebrain | downtown porto we dont even speak portuguese anymore | 00:16 |
| _abc_ | Eh. | 00:16 |
| livebrain | only english and those litle "modern pubs" | 00:16 |
| livebrain | or "barber shops" | 00:16 |
| _abc_ | What are those? | 00:16 |
| livebrain | fancy barber shops | 00:16 |
| livebrain | for hipsters | 00:16 |
| _abc_ | Gaudi haircut + mustache & beard job? :) | 00:17 |
| livebrain | it has nothing to do with the tradition of Porto | 00:17 |
| livebrain | i wont miss that though | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:15 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US death toll surpasses 40,000, Cuomo says NY is 'past the high point' of cases → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 00:17 |
| Hoffman | I go to one of those places for moustache trimming | 00:17 |
| livebrain | 3theres a point in tourism | 00:19 |
| livebrain | that tourists go visit others places | 00:19 |
| livebrain | to meet other tourists | 00:19 |
| livebrain | and drink at "modern bars" | 00:19 |
| Hoffman | yeah man | 00:19 |
| Hoffman | that's how you meet foreign folks | 00:19 |
| livebrain | me ? no | 00:20 |
| livebrain | they are served by brasilians | 00:20 |
| livebrain | not portuguese | 00:20 |
| livebrain | so tourists go to other coutries to meet other tourists | 00:20 |
| Hoffman | thats how *people* meet foreign folks | 00:20 |
| Hoffman | right | 00:20 |
| Hoffman | thats how *people* meet foreign folks | 00:20 |
| livebrain | and drink at "modern pubs" to get server by emmigrants | 00:20 |
| Hoffman | o__O | 00:20 |
| livebrain | thats the reality in Porto | 00:20 |
| livebrain | a city with 200 000 or so | 00:21 |
| Hoffman | who cares who serves the drinks | 00:21 |
| livebrain | then why do they go to other countries ? | 00:21 |
| Hoffman | why do who go to which countries | 00:21 |
| livebrain | they wont see the buildings as they were originally | 00:21 |
| livebrain | they wont meet with locals | 00:21 |
| ubLIX | they won't if you refuse to talk to them | 00:22 |
| Hoffman | there might be a language barrier | 00:22 |
| livebrain | this whole backpack tourism is stupid | 00:22 |
| livebrain | it serves no porpuse other than the tourist be able to say "im well traveled" | 00:23 |
| Hoffman | hearing the common refrain of "stop liking what I dont like" gets tiresome | 00:23 |
| livebrain | while staying 1 or 2 days in a country lol | 00:23 |
| Hoffman | does this actually harm you in any material way | 00:23 |
| livebrain | it harms all actually | 00:23 |
| livebrain | all locals of all tourist oriented cities | 00:24 |
| livebrain | kinda suffer | 00:24 |
| Hoffman | O_O | 00:24 |
| Hoffman | that's terrible! | 00:24 |
| Hoffman | how? | 00:24 |
| livebrain | houses skyrocket in prices | 00:24 |
| livebrain | it drives the natives away from the cities | 00:24 |
| Hoffman | because people with backpacks visit? | 00:24 |
| livebrain | the jobs are low paying jobs | 00:24 |
| livebrain | with no stability | 00:24 |
| Hoffman | I guess "blame it on the foreigners" is a universal thing | 00:25 |
| livebrain | this is well know | 00:25 |
| livebrain | this is really wellknown | 00:25 |
| Hoffman | lol | 00:25 |
| LjL | there's a grain of truth to every outrageous madness | 00:26 |
| LjL | but that said | 00:26 |
| LjL | gooooooooood griiiiiiiiiiiiiief | 00:26 |
| Hoffman | I just dont see how someone who camps in a tent can drive up housing prices | 00:26 |
| Hoffman | ??? | 00:26 |
| livebrain | Hoffman: if you camp in porto | 00:26 |
| livebrain | you are kinda asked to go away | 00:27 |
| livebrain | as there are no camping sites in my city | 00:27 |
| mefistofeles | in case you missed it https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/world/europe/with-broad-random-tests-for-antibodies-germany-seeks-path-out-of-lockdown.html | 00:27 |
| Hoffman | livebrain: how does that drive up housing prices | 00:27 |
| livebrain | 23:27 < livebrain> as there are no camping sites in my city | 00:27 |
| livebrain | only if you camped in some public garden | 00:27 |
| Hoffman | livebrain: how does that drive up housing prices | 00:27 |
| livebrain | but that would be illegal | 00:27 |
| Hoffman | ??? | 00:27 |
| livebrain | are you serious ? | 00:27 |
| Hoffman | total language barrier here | 00:28 |
| livebrain | they can get 3 or 4 times more | 00:28 |
| livebrain | in tourism | 00:28 |
| livebrain | than to "normal" renting | 00:28 |
| Hoffman | who?? | 00:28 |
| Hoffman | the people with backpacks camp | 00:28 |
| Hoffman | thats whats in the backpack | 00:28 |
| Hoffman | a tent | 00:28 |
| Hoffman | a sleeping bag | 00:28 |
| Hoffman | clothing | 00:28 |
| livebrain | 23:27 < livebrain> 23:27 < livebrain> as there are no camping sites in my city | 00:28 |
| livebrain | you cant camp in Porto | 00:28 |
| livebrain | lol | 00:28 |
| Hoffman | but thats what backpackers do | 00:28 |
| livebrain | there are not places to camp | 00:28 |
| Hoffman | they camp | 00:28 |
| livebrain | not in porto | 00:28 |
| Hoffman | then I guess they arent staying in the city! | 00:28 |
| Hoffman | Im gonna stop trying to rephrase | 00:29 |
| Hoffman | clearly the point isnt being communicated well | 00:29 |
| livebrain | this is a problem that is worldwide | 00:29 |
| livebrain | how can you not know about it ? | 00:29 |
| Hoffman | campers not having a place to camp? | 00:29 |
| livebrain | rent prices going up alot | 00:29 |
| livebrain | due to tourism | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | not because of campers | 00:30 |
| livebrain | again | 00:30 |
| livebrain | you cant camp in porto | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | again | 00:30 |
| livebrain | why do you keep saying camp ? | 00:30 |
| livebrain | you cant | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | because the people you are talking about | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | are CAMPERS | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | thats where they sleep | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | in a tent | 00:30 |
| livebrain | no | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | yes | 00:30 |
| livebrain | only drug addicts and homeless | 00:30 |
| livebrain | sleep in tents in porto | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | You must be confusing the people for others | 00:30 |
| livebrain | you cant | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | maybe theyre just regular tourists | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | and not backpackers | 00:30 |
| Hoffman | backpackers camp | 00:31 |
| livebrain | backpackers = ryanair traveler | 00:31 |
| Hoffman | if they dont camp, they arent backpackers | 00:31 |
| livebrain | that pays 50 euros for a flight | 00:31 |
| Hoffman | backpackers = campers | 00:31 |
| livebrain | 100 for 2 days | 00:31 |
| Hoffman | that camp in tents | 00:31 |
| LjL | i need ten minutes of silence | 00:31 |
| LjL | also, airbnbs are evil, also, campers are not evil, unless they are | 00:31 |
| LjL | also, both of you, GOOOOOD GRIIIIEEEF | 00:31 |
| LjL | that's all i have to say on the matter. | 00:31 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 00:32 |
| mefistofeles | I'm putting the link again, just in case | 00:32 |
| mefistofeles | in case you missed it https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/world/europe/with-broad-random-tests-for-antibodies-germany-seeks-path-out-of-lockdown.html | 00:32 |
| LjL | yeah, it was sort of easy to miss so i did | 00:34 |
| _abc_ | I am curious to see how the German test goes. The Italian one returned so far only 10% have antibodies? I can't find the reference, it was in the news. | 00:36 |
| mefistofeles | _abc_: a good test cannot have results that soon, tbh | 00:36 |
| mefistofeles | _abc_: you probably mean some localized one? | 00:37 |
| mefistofeles | Germany did also one in this small town, around 15% estimated to show antibodies and have some immunity | 00:37 |
| mefistofeles | and 0.37% mortality in that same town | 00:37 |
| _abc_ | mefistofeles: yes Lombardy or Veneto. | 00:37 |
| LjL | probably Veneto | 00:38 |
| LjL | Lombardy is not yet in the condition of doing such tests methinks | 00:38 |
| LjL | Veneto tested aggressively and in various ways | 00:38 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, needs a big scale thing,, or time | 00:38 |
| mefistofeles | actually, both xD | 00:38 |
| LjL | but i didn't hear this 10% thing from local news, just from this channel (but also i didn't listen to local news) | 00:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:35 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus news live: some Sydney beaches reopen as minister defends tracing app – latest updates → https://is.gd/QFvLnh | 00:39 |
| _abc_ | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/ see that graph? If you ask me, that is nowhere near hope. I mean they are talking opening up for business again. | 00:43 |
| mefistofeles | _abc_: the R0 is below 1, and also the daily recoveries are more than the daily infections | 00:45 |
| mefistofeles | and if the antibody tests show that the number of undetected is that much larger, a real opening can start or at least can be seriously considered | 00:45 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, but anyway, unless the civil protection are just airing their mouths as usual, we're also going to do a sampling of 150000 over the whole country. they don't know yet which antibody test to use, but supposedly they'll give companies 5 days to show what they've got. and meanwhile ISTAT is determining what the sample will be | 00:45 |
| _abc_ | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/greece/ what a nice graph! | 00:47 |
| LjL | i have to side with _abc_ here but there's going to be all sorts of different opinions | 00:47 |
| mefistofeles | also, tbh, Germany has always been kinda open during all of this | 00:47 |
| mefistofeles | most of it | 00:48 |
| _abc_ | How the heck are the Greeks doing that? | 00:48 |
| mefistofeles | _abc_: that Greece graph shouts under testing | 00:48 |
| _abc_ | I read the islands are incommunicado for one thing. | 00:48 |
| LjL | germany is keeping the death rate "low" (let's hope they ALSO have a ton of asymptomatic people though! but okay, that one town would suggest there are), but at the same time, "going for herd immunity" while reopening everything... we don't know what the virus does to the bodies of *even* people who are asymptomatic. we know there are hints that it can sometimes do bad things, even to those people. | 00:48 |
| _abc_ | mefistofeles: ? | 00:48 |
| mefistofeles | _abc_: 113 deaths and only 2k cases, undertesting | 00:48 |
| LjL | why does it look like undertesting? do you think they had an ability to test that they've been losing in the past few days? | 00:49 |
| mefistofeles | or check the daily rates | 00:50 |
| mefistofeles | Case rate: 11/24h, death rate: 2/24h. | 00:50 |
| mefistofeles | unless you really think 1/5 (20%) is the death rate (we know it isnt) then it's really undertested | 00:50 |
| _abc_ | I heard that the Greek public health system is not quite the best in Europe. | 00:50 |
| mefistofeles | !corona Greece | 00:51 |
| CoronaBot | Greece: Global rank: #58, cases: 2,235, fatalities: 113 (+3), active cases: 1,853, total recovered: 269, in a serious condition: 67. Mortality: 5.06%, case fatality rate: 29.58%, cases/1M: 214.0, deaths/1M: 11.0. Case rate: 11/24h, death rate: 2/24h. Tests: 53,290, tests/1M: 5,113. | 00:51 |
| mefistofeles | 5k test per million, compare that to Germany and you will see how undertested they are | 00:51 |
| _abc_ | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/iceland/ ahh pretty | 00:51 |
| mefistofeles | and specially when Germany is already undertested, as most are | 00:51 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, https://covidly.com/graph?country=Greece&state= shows an increasing number of tests (you have to enable the box though), passing 50k per day now, which is about as good as italy | 00:52 |
| LjL | or as bad as italy, if you compare it to germany | 00:52 |
| LjL | but if you don't compare it to germany, italy is testing a lot | 00:52 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: in absolute numbers, yes | 00:52 |
| mefistofeles | but in relative (which are the important ones here) Italy is pretty bad | 00:52 |
| LjL | well, even so, greece has a much lower population than italy | 00:53 |
| mefistofeles | that is, the positive/test ratio, in a way | 00:53 |
| LjL | so that graph tells me they're testing aggressively | 00:53 |
| mefistofeles | the lower that ratio is the better | 00:53 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: not really, again, 5k/million, that's independent of population | 00:53 |
| mefistofeles | that's on the lower side, compared to big european countries | 00:54 |
| mefistofeles | anyways, going to sleep, take care | 00:55 |
| LjL | %cases greece | 00:56 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Greece, there are 2235 cases (0.0% of the population) and 113 deaths (5.1% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. 53290 tests were performed (4.2% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Greece for time series data. | 00:56 |
| LjL | %cases germany | 00:56 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Germany, there are 145184 cases (0.2% of the population) and 4586 deaths (3.2% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. 1.7 million tests were performed (8.4% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 5.0% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 00:56 |
| LjL | i don't know, more tests are positive in germany than in greece... | 00:56 |
| LjL | night | 00:56 |
| _abc_ | Can anyone explain the spiky pattern in the deaths graph? The period is 7 days or so, the average time between?! Does this mean weekends when people stay home and do not use mass transit lead to fewer infections? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ | 00:57 |
| Biep[m] | !compare nl;de | 00:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:58 UTC: Democrats, Republicans near $370 billion deal for coronavirus small business loan programs: The $349 billion rescue loan program ran out of money on Thursday, just two weeks after it was launched to allow banks to issue taxpayer-backed loans to small businesses hurt by the coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/WJC26h | 01:00 |
| navonod | giving banks money to lend out to other people never works | 01:07 |
| kreyren | Did anyone report any headage related to minor SARS-CoV-2 exposure? I was out +- 3 days ago and i've noticed my temperature being slightly higger day 1 and day 2 terrible headage that i've partially resolved by increasing the hearth rate. | 01:08 |
| kreyren | day 3 still headage, day 4 normal | 01:08 |
| kreyren | probably irelevant but doesnt hurt to ask~ | 01:09 |
| LjL | _abc_, i feel when there are weekly patterns (Germany has them for new cases too) it's probably more likely to be reporting artifacts than actual indications of... weekly pattern | 01:09 |
| LjL | but i have no reason to think that except my intuition | 01:09 |
| pwr22 | I believe headache is one of the potential symptoms | 01:09 |
| pwr22 | Someone I know who most likely had it, had a very bad headache | 01:09 |
| LjL | i was wondering what headage may meant, and about to google it | 01:10 |
| kreyren | pwr22, Any more info on the headage? mine was located in (what i assume) postcentral gyrus to parietal lobe in head, felt like blockage. | 01:10 |
| LjL | if you have a high temperature, self-isolate | 01:10 |
| LjL | no matter what other things | 01:10 |
| kreyren | LjL, not high was higher and i am self-isolated since january :p | 01:10 |
| pwr22 | No, sorry. Try googling | 01:10 |
| pwr22 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QwehaaJrEQ | 01:10 |
| pwr22 | Trump saying things | 01:11 |
| l0ndoner[m] | without thermostat how can you tell if you have high temp? | 01:11 |
| LjL | kreyren, self-isolation for actual quarantine means not leaving, ever, at all... just so we're clear... it doesn't mean going to the supermarket with a mask | 01:11 |
| kreyren | usually i have 35.4~36.5 the day after was peaking 36.8 | 01:11 |
| LjL | l0ndoner[m], you mean thermometer? | 01:11 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "i was wondering what headage may"> I'm very good at working things out from context 😁 | 01:11 |
| LjL | kreyren, okay that's still pretty low even if your norm is lower | 01:11 |
| l0ndoner[m] | yea something you stick under your tongue or under arm | 01:12 |
| l0ndoner[m] | how you know if you havent got one | 01:12 |
| pwr22 | Yeah those aren't high afaik | 01:12 |
| kreyren | LjL, i know i have supplies for 254 Years and people shopping for me, was experimenting to see if i can get any symptoms from minor exposure outside of my self-isolation. | 01:12 |
| LjL | l0ndoner[m], thermometer. a thermostat is something that *incldues* a thermometer, but also makes something (like heating) turn on and off depending on the temperature | 01:12 |
| pwr22 | I have one of those ear ones like the doctors use | 01:12 |
| pwr22 | Bought it after my operation a few years back | 01:12 |
| kreyren | Seems to me as something non-covid19 though. | 01:12 |
| LjL | pwr22, i have one, don't use it, seems *incredibly* unreliable. but maybe it's just mine | 01:13 |
| LjL | normal armpit/mouth thermometer is a bit lower but much more reproducible | 01:13 |
| LjL | a bit slower* | 01:13 |
| pwr22 | Mine's been ok | 01:13 |
| pwr22 | I bought a name brand one though | 01:13 |
| LjL | pwr22, can you take several measurements in a row and they all read like within .1? | 01:13 |
| l0ndoner[m] | so without one you cant tell? | 01:13 |
| LjL | don't remember the brand of mine right now | 01:14 |
| LjL | l0ndoner[m], no, not really. someone else may tell if they touch your forehead but it's not very reliable | 01:14 |
| pwr22 | LjL: yeah, except if I've just taken off over ear headphone and forgotten | 01:14 |
| LjL | of course you may *feel* feverish | 01:14 |
| pwr22 | Then the first one tends to be much higher 😁 | 01:14 |
| LjL | but a thermometer exists to confirm it | 01:14 |
| pwr22 | When I have a fever I usually feel cold | 01:14 |
| pwr22 | And when I think I have one I don't | 01:14 |
| LjL | pwr22, well, okay, that's fair, same thing if you drink coffee and then measure temperature in your mouth | 01:14 |
| pwr22 | Which is why I got one :D | 01:14 |
| LjL | yes having chills is a hallmark of a fever | 01:15 |
| LjL | but you can also have chills without a fever | 01:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:10 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US death toll surpasses 40,000 as cases hit 750,000 → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 01:15 |
| l0ndoner[m] | body trying to cool you down | 01:15 |
| LjL | no, the body is trying to warm you up | 01:15 |
| LjL | chills exist to warm you up when it's cold, generally | 01:15 |
| LjL | not to cool you down | 01:15 |
| LjL | think of it... aside from fever, you get chills when it's cold | 01:16 |
| LjL | if when you have fever you take a paracetamol, it's pretty classic to sweat a lot, because sweating makes your body cooler | 01:16 |
| bin_bash | LjL is correct, here's a pretty good ELI5 description: https://www.everydayhealth.com/cold-and-flu/why-do-we-get-chills-with-a-fever/ | 01:17 |
| LjL | chills are basically spasm-like motions of muscles. if your muscles keep moving, they consume energy, which turns into heat | 01:17 |
| bin_bash | >>When the brain increases the body's temperature set point, the body strives to meet that higher temperature. You feel cold because technically you are colder than your body's new set point. In turn, the body works to generate heat to warm itself by contracting and relaxing muscles — hence the shivering, or chills. | 01:17 |
| bin_bash | greentext explanation: | 01:18 |
| bin_bash | >virus infects | 01:18 |
| l0ndoner[m] | UV kills it too so might live under a tanning bed for rest of my life lol | 01:18 |
| bin_bash | >virus doesn't survive at high temps, body knows this | 01:18 |
| bin_bash | >body raises temps, so you have new thermostat setting | 01:18 |
| bin_bash | >shiver to try and raise temp to kill virus | 01:18 |
| pwr22 | Can the body produce temperatures high enough to meaningfully inhibit most viruses without dying itself? | 01:19 |
| bin_bash | yes | 01:20 |
| LjL | pwr22, i suspect not. but even if the heat along can't *fully* inhibit the virus, it may still slow viral reproduction... and then the immune system comes into play | 01:20 |
| sabr3[m] | <pwr22 "Can the body produce temperature"> im sure it couldim sure it can? i mean humanity has survived this long...and some parts of the world are extreme temps | 01:20 |
| bin_bash | not necessarily kill the virus entirely, but inhibit its reproduction, yes absolutely | 01:20 |
| LjL | sabr3[m], uh? | 01:20 |
| l0ndoner[m] | I'm sure Human kind will survive... WE survived 1917 and the black death | 01:21 |
| bin_bash | and smallpox | 01:21 |
| LjL | sabr3[m], the outside temperature has little to nothing to do with this... normal body temperature is around 36-37°C, and if it gets higher than 40°C it's dangerous, and higher than 42°C you may start getting brain damage. there are countries where the outside temperature can be higher than this, for sure, but that doesn't mean your *body* temperature is that high. it is not. | 01:21 |
| sabr3[m] | so if our bodies are efficiently managed (good Nutrition foods with good vitamins minerals especially) we can handle anything. | 01:22 |
| LjL | no, that's not true | 01:22 |
| bin_bash | no. | 01:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US tops more than 750,000 cases as Trump says he will use DPA to increase medical swabs → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 01:22 |
| kreyren | *these | 01:22 |
| LjL | you can't brush off pathogens causing actual disease with "eat good and you'll be fine". that's not how it works. that doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T eat good... but it doesn't deserve trivializing disease either. | 01:23 |
| l0ndoner[m] | every 1 degree the body loses can have drastic measures but its not the same every 1 degree the body gains | 01:23 |
| l0ndoner[m] | I think | 01:23 |
| l0ndoner[m] | if I rember watching a freezing water study on the body | 01:23 |
| sabr3[m] | ah | 01:23 |
| LjL | l0ndoner[m], there are such stories, but in general, if your body's temperature becomes dangerously low, you are at risk of death too | 01:24 |
| LjL | getting "frozen" can work a bit differently | 01:24 |
| LjL | but even then i wouldn't recommend freezing yourself as a means of preservation ;) | 01:24 |
| sabr3[m] | its so weird i saw a music vid of madonna its like she knew this thing beforehand | 01:24 |
| l0ndoner[m] | the participants body tempreture only dropped by 2 degrees and he was in a bad way | 01:25 |
| sabr3[m] | would it be a prob if i posted a link here to that video | 01:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:20 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus news live: some Sydney beaches reopen as minister defends tracing app – latest updates → https://is.gd/QFvLnh | 01:29 |
| sabr3[m] | tracing hmmm | 01:30 |
| LjL | l0ndoner[m], if my thermometer read 34, i'd rush to ER | 01:30 |
| LjL | or rather i'd call an ambulance | 01:31 |
| LjL | well, in normal times, anyway | 01:31 |
| LjL | right now i don't know what i'd do | 01:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:40 UTC: Trump to use Defense Production Act to increase swab production amid coronavirus testing shortage: "We've had a little difficulty with one so we're calling in, as in the past you know, we're calling in the Defense Production Act and we'll be getting swabs very easily," Trump said. → https://is.gd/D5rKpP | 01:44 |
| LjL | make swabs not war | 01:47 |
| LjL | %tr Il Gruppo dei Garanti ha inoltre ribadito che simili applicazioni dovrebbero essere installate su base volontaria dall’utente, precisando però che la base giuridica del trattamento non è quella del consenso dell’utente, ma piuttosto l’interesse pubblico rilevante e proporzionato alla finalità perseguita, come dettagliato da apposite normative nazionali che dovranno essere emanate sul punto. | 02:11 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: The Group of Guarantors also reiterated that similar applications should be installed on a voluntary basis by the user, however specifying that the legal basis of the processing is not that of the user's consent, but rather the public interest relevant and proportionate to the aim pursued, as detailed by specific national regulations which must be issued [... want %more?] | 02:11 |
| LjL | "voluntary" adoption of apps sounds all well and good... but if you have to reach 60% of users, as they say they need to, there has to be a catch i feel | 02:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:06 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US deaths pass 40,000 as Italy records lowest fatalities in a week: Trump criticises China and WHO over pandemic; death rates in Spain and Netherlands fall; Iran to extend prisoner leave for another month. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/Ar4F3H | 02:12 |
| MinceR | > the legal basis of the processing is not that of the user's consent, but rather the public interest | 02:19 |
| MinceR | i.e. they couldn't care less about whether you consented to it | 02:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore cases top 6,000 as global infections exceed 2.39 million → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 02:20 |
| LjL | MinceR, kind of... but they want to make it look voluntary, and act voluntary until and unless public interest becomes overwhelming | 02:22 |
| LjL | that's how i interpret it | 02:22 |
| MinceR | they're very careful not to be honest about it | 02:23 |
| Toadisattva | so are we getting an app? | 02:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:23 UTC: (news): US tops more than 750,000 cases as Trump says he will use DPA to increase medical swabs → https://is.gd/ZcrihZ | 02:27 |
| MinceR | the one i've heard about was some sinister spyware snuck into Google Play Services(?) and something on hypePhones | 02:28 |
| MinceR | this seems to be something else, or something that builds on top of that | 02:28 |
| Ryan[m]2 | Test | 02:29 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, well that was from an article specifically about the italian situation, but the developers of the italian app that has been selected by the government are part of a European working group that will probably produce apps for most of the EU, though probably in a haphazard fashion | 02:31 |
| LjL | and maybe at some point they'll just give up and let Google and Apple do their thing :P | 02:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:39 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US deaths pass 40,000 as Italy records lowest fatalities in a week: Trump criticises China and WHO over pandemic; death rates in Spain and Netherlands fall; Iran to extend prisoner leave for another month. Follow latest updates → https://is.gd/Ar4F3H | 02:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:56 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore cases top 6,000 as global infections exceed 2.39 million → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 03:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:07 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus news live: some Sydney beaches reopen as minister defends tracing app – latest updates → https://is.gd/QFvLnh | 03:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:17 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore cases top 6,000 as global infections exceed 2.39 million → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 03:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:25 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: some Sydney beaches reopen as minister defends tracing app – latest news → https://is.gd/QFvLnh | 03:31 |
| ryouma | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-3-day-average | 03:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:49 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore cases top 6,000 as global infections exceed 2.39 million → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 03:53 |
| ynjhof[m] | %data vietnam | 04:26 |
| Brainstorm | ynjhof[m]: In all areas, Vietnam, there are 268 cases (0.0% of the population) and 0 deaths (0.0% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. 206253 tests were performed (0.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Vietnam for time series data. | 04:26 |
| ynjhof[m] | %data maldives | 04:28 |
| Brainstorm | ynjhof[m]: In all areas, Maldives, there are 52 cases (0.0% of the population) and 0 deaths (0.0% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 3588 tests were performed (1.4% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Maldives for time series data. | 04:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 02:20 UTC: Coronavirus: Plasma treatment to be trialled: The hope is blood from coronavirus survivors could treat hospital patients ill with Covid-19. → https://is.gd/EWwaUd | 04:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:30 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: some Sydney beaches reopen as minister defends tracing app – latest news → https://is.gd/QFvLnh | 04:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:58 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore cases top 6,000 as global infections exceed 2.39 million → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 05:05 |
| ryouma | what are the stock, futures, options, and commodities markets predicting about the pandemic? i.e. where are they compared to before the pandemic, and what do they say about, for example, 1 year from now? | 05:10 |
| cortexman | you rang? https://www.flickr.com/photos/188105686@N08 | 05:11 |
| ryouma | (was cortexman replying to me? idgi if so) | 05:18 |
| ubLIX | ryouma: no | 05:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:13 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: tech giants must pay 'millions', Frydenberg says as minister defends tracking app – latest news → https://is.gd/QFvLnh | 05:20 |
| ryouma | re prev Brainstorm, tech giants are stealing content? what? idgi | 05:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore cases top 6,000 as global infections exceed 2.39 million → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 05:27 |
| rajrajraj | No masks | 05:32 |
| rajrajraj | https://www.facebook.com/100042839655899/posts/223672569070730/?d=n watch the videos in this post | 05:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:27 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: tech giants must pay 'millions', Frydenberg says as minister defends tracking app – latest news → https://is.gd/QFvLnh | 05:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore cases top 6,000 as global infections exceed 2.39 million → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 05:56 |
| JamGobbar | The Red Cross pronounced that “the man or woman or child who will not wear a mask now is a dangerous slacker.” | 06:06 |
| ryouma | presumably in a context where there ARE masks | 06:22 |
| ryouma | i suppose you can use a t shirt | 06:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 04:22 UTC: nCoV: Number of people hospitalised for Covid-19 in France falls for fifth straight day | 19APR20 → https://is.gd/Qx3895 | 06:24 |
| euod[m] | ryouma: literally anything is better than nothing, as far as I've read. | 06:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 04:37 UTC: /u/slakmehl: India coronavirus lockdown: What stays open and what stays shut - BBC News → https://is.gd/2EMUvP | 06:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:43 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Could Southeast Asia be the next hot spot?: The number of coronavirus infections in Southeast Asia has risen quickly in recent weeks, with mounting worries among experts that the region could turn into a hot spot for the fast-spreading disease. → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 06:46 |
| ryouma | so much for heat? | 06:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:51 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Southeast Asia be the next hot spot; Jobs lost could be slow to return, says S&P: The number of coronavirus infections in Southeast Asia has risen quickly in recent weeks, with mounting worries among experts that the region could turn into a hot spot for the fast-spreading disease. → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 07:00 |
| swift110-phone__ | Oh wow | 07:04 |
| swift110-phone__ | I thought they had it under control | 07:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:03 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: S&P says job losses in Asia may not be returning soon: The number of coronavirus infections in Southeast Asia has risen quickly in recent weeks, with mounting worries among experts that the region could turn into a hot spot for the fast-spreading disease. → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 07:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:09 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: S&P says jobs lost may not return soon; Southeast Asia may be next hot spot: The number of coronavirus infections in Southeast Asia has risen quickly in recent weeks, with mounting worries among experts that the region could turn into a hot spot for the fast-spreading disease. → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 07:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 05:21 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/jkgzmY | 07:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 05:26 UTC: Coronavirus Cases Latest Graph: submitted by /u/SuccessfulRange6 to r/CoronaVirusInfo → https://is.gd/t45nyM | 07:29 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Michigan mayor calls on commissioner who joined protest against coronavirus restrictions to resign (10032 votes) | https://redd.it/g4buk9 | 07:29 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Kentucky reports highest coronavirus infection increase after a week of protests to reopen state (10058 votes) | https://redd.it/g4jq7m | 07:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:35 UTC: Australia coronavirus updates live: 19 new Ruby Princess cases confirmed – latest news: Number of positive tests linked to cruise ship rises to 202 while Stuart Robert rebuffs Covid-19 tracking app privacy concerns. Follow all today’s developments → https://is.gd/QFvLnh | 07:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 05:45 UTC: Covid2019: Coronavirus order saves $1 billion from fewer car crashes - Los Angeles Times → https://is.gd/7F1XhQ | 07:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:52 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: S&P says jobs lost may not return soon; Southeast Asia may be next hot spot: The number of coronavirus infections in Southeast Asia has risen quickly in recent weeks, with mounting worries among experts that the region could turn into a hot spot for the fast-spreading disease. → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 07:57 |
| dwarfinyourwalls | y'all like pizza? | 08:09 |
| Ryan[m]2 | What? | 08:11 |
| dwarfinyourwalls | do ya? | 08:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 06:08 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Giappone → https://is.gd/GT4IX0 | 08:12 |
| Ryan[m]2 | Yeah I guess, what are you on about? | 08:16 |
| dwarfinyourwalls | I've been living off of frozen pizza for the last one and a half months | 08:17 |
| Ryan[m]2 | That doesn't sound healthy | 08:17 |
| dwarfinyourwalls | It isn't | 08:17 |
| dwarfinyourwalls | sometimes I reminisce upon the days when I was able to afford 13 cans of bush's baked beans for my weekly sustenance | 08:20 |
| wiiky | https://www.denverpost.com/2020/04/19/canada-mass-shooting/ | 08:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:25 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: S&P says jobs lost may not return soon; Southeast Asia may be next hot spot → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 08:33 |
| mayaudara[m] | Morning everyone | 08:34 |
| mayaudara[m] | Fun russian covid updates: one priest said that he doesn’t believe in covid because he doesn’t see it LMAO | 08:36 |
| wiiky | that the same reason why i dont believe in God | 08:38 |
| mayaudara[m] | Yep exactly | 08:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 06:35 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Libano → https://is.gd/Z0YdFQ | 08:40 |
| wiiky | maybe he does see god that why he is a priest... | 08:40 |
| wiiky | and im not | 08:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 06:38 UTC: worldnews: Beijing’s 5-day crackdown on Hong Kong’s opposition during COVID-19: With world’s attention focused on the Coronavirus pandemic and protesters off the streets, Chinese and Hong Kong authorities stepped up their efforts to crack down on the pro-democracy movement in the semi-autonomous territory. → https://is.gd/KKskuK | 08:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:54 UTC: Business: Oil prices plunge to 20-year low as Covid-19 demand hit deepens – business live → https://is.gd/ClixAu | 09:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:05 UTC: European markets open slightly higher despite coronavirus and sharp drop in oil prices: European stocks opened higher on Monday as global coronavirus developments remain in focus, along with a sharp fall in U.S. oil prices. → https://is.gd/2n12uD | 09:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:11 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: S&P says jobs lost may not return soon; Southeast Asia may be next hot spot → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 09:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 07:28 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Scienza → https://is.gd/OpztVA | 09:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Southeast Asia may be next hot spot; Singapore preliminarily adds 1,426 new cases → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 09:51 |
| ynjhof[m] | %data vietnam | 09:55 |
| Brainstorm | ynjhof[m]: In all areas, Vietnam, there are 268 cases (0.0% of the population) and 0 deaths (0.0% of cases) as of 5 minutes ago. 206253 tests were performed (0.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Vietnam for time series data. | 09:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:50 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: Virgin Australia expected to go into administration – latest news → https://is.gd/QFvLnh | 10:06 |
| ynjhof[m] | It is my fifth week since symptoms. I have a second olfactory change. | 10:06 |
| ynjhof[m] | Somehow sometimes to me my breath smells like candy. I think it is possible bad odors are muted. | 10:06 |
| ynjhof[m] | Sorry to waffle on in the chorum. Wanted to add that I did chest related exercises during moderate intensity calesthenics/cardio today. Maybe I brought it back. | 10:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from WHO at 08:01 UTC: Maintaining routine immunization services vital during the COVID-19 pandemic: Joint WHO and UNICEF press note to mark European Immunization Week 2020The COVID-19 pandemic is a stark reminder that infectious diseases know no borders. All countries are vulnerable, regardless of income levels or the strength of their health care [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/tx5Ysm | 10:13 |
| yuriwho | have you had a pulse oximeter reading ynjhof[m] | 10:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:15 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus, Speranza: "Guai a dividersi, lavorare insieme con le Regioni. Il calcio? L'ultimo problema" - Sanità - ANSA.it → https://is.gd/KpceNx | 10:20 |
| mefistofeles | France showing pretty erratic data again :/ | 10:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:26 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Boris Johnson 'very concerned' about second wave of infections if lockdown lifted too soon → https://is.gd/QnVT6d | 10:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:32 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Southeast Asia may be next hot spot; Singapore preliminarily adds 1,426 new cases → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 10:41 |
| kreyren | > Adults are now buying brest milk to protect them from covid-19... | 10:44 |
| kreyren | Why would it even remotely help | 10:44 |
| mefistofeles | one of the hypothesis is that young people don't get that affected is because of the defenses they have precisely when young | 10:46 |
| yuriwho | from recovered pregnant mothers... lactating mothers? | 10:46 |
| mefistofeles | some of them from breast milk | 10:46 |
| mefistofeles | but I don't think it would work, at all | 10:47 |
| tinwhiskers | o.O | 10:47 |
| mefistofeles | there's also the fact that the immune system is less flexible with time, so *even* if you get defenses from breast milk (which I don't think you can) your system won't really adopt them | 10:47 |
| yuriwho | breast milk is a source of antibodies for babies before they develop their mature immune systems | 10:47 |
| mefistofeles | yuriwho: exactly | 10:47 |
| tinwhiskers | Most of the antibodies come from the colostrum, which one occurs for the first day or so | 10:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:32 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: Virgin Australia expected to go into administration – latest news → https://is.gd/QFvLnh | 10:48 |
| tinwhiskers | *only occurs | 10:48 |
| yuriwho | I would revert chronologically to suckling if my wife was lactating and had recovered from a SARS-CoV-2 infection.... also kinky fun | 10:50 |
| tinwhiskers | As a sheep breeder we keep colostrum milk in the freezer to give to orphan lambs before mothering them up or bottle feeding. | 10:50 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 10:50 |
| mefistofeles | !grab yuriwho | 10:50 |
| mefistofeles | %grab yuriwho | 10:50 |
| Brainstorm | NameError: global name 'find_file' is not defined (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/find.py", line 29, in load_db) | 10:50 |
| mefistofeles | had to try xD | 10:50 |
| tinwhiskers | If they don't get colostrum the are very poorly and grow badly | 10:51 |
| yuriwho | oh yea tinwhiskers that weird greenish boob fluid similar to a babies first poop........ yummy | 10:52 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah :-) | 10:52 |
| mefistofeles | plz continue | 10:52 |
| mefistofeles | haha | 10:52 |
| ynjhof[m] | I don't think a pulse oximiter reading will be useful for much? Apart from telling me I am close to sleeping. | 10:52 |
| tinwhiskers | It's amazing you can keep colostrum milk frozen for more than a year and the antibodies are still good | 10:53 |
| yuriwho | sorry everyone I am relaxing.... and quite high right now | 10:53 |
| mefistofeles | yuriwho: that's ok | 10:53 |
| yuriwho | I am at my cottage and went for an illegal ATV ride at 1am my time a few hours ago | 10:54 |
| yuriwho | it was exilerating | 10:56 |
| mefistofeles | yuriwho: ATV? | 10:56 |
| yuriwho | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/N2hbSKU1/1587363239.JPG | 10:57 |
| mefistofeles | ah, niice | 10:57 |
| yuriwho | spot the mini bottle of hand sanitizer | 10:57 |
| mefistofeles | haha | 10:58 |
| yuriwho | it’s like a where’s Waldo challenge | 10:58 |
| yuriwho | I need a paintball gun turret on that machine.. with paintballs filled with bear pepper spray | 11:00 |
| yuriwho | Mad Yuri | 11:00 |
| yuriwho | I mean that in the MADMAX sense and also, /me insane sense | 11:01 |
| mefistofeles | not as mad as bears would get | 11:01 |
| yuriwho | I deal with hungry bears every year | 11:02 |
| yuriwho | they are not irrational | 11:02 |
| ynjhof[m] | Ever eaten one? | 11:02 |
| yuriwho | yes | 11:02 |
| mefistofeles | raw | 11:02 |
| yuriwho | I have eaten bear stew | 11:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:55 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Southeast Asia may be next hot spot; Singapore preliminarily adds 1,426 new cases → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 11:03 |
| ynjhof[m] | :O | 11:03 |
| yuriwho | I have eaten Mose stew | 11:03 |
| mefistofeles | Leo learned fight bears from yuriwho | 11:03 |
| mefistofeles | so they say | 11:03 |
| yuriwho | and Elk | 11:03 |
| yuriwho | Moose | 11:03 |
| yuriwho | I am currently located in the middle of nowhere beside a provincial park | 11:05 |
| ynjhof[m] | Are there any matrix servers for casual chatting like this, or is that a discord type thing | 11:05 |
| yuriwho | chewing through my monthly cell phone data one sentence at a time | 11:06 |
| yuriwho | this channel is only casual late at night before the Europeans have had their morning bidet | 11:07 |
| mefistofeles | ynjhof[m]: I guess any matrix server allows that | 11:07 |
| mefistofeles | oh, maybe channel xD | 11:07 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, there should be plenty, as well | 11:07 |
| yuriwho | please welcome shan... a friend from India | 11:11 |
| ynjhof[m] | Eh the freenode for example - a detail oriented groups of channels | 11:11 |
| shan | Haha, hello, everyone :) And thanks yuriwho | 11:11 |
| mefistofeles | I really need to upgrade the RAM on this laptop :/ | 11:12 |
| mefistofeles | hey shan | 11:12 |
| shan | hi mefistofeles, how's it going? | 11:13 |
| yuriwho | I need to upgrade my immune system ;-) with a bonus of antibodies from the blood of young females that survived the disease | 11:13 |
| mefistofeles | shan: all good, trying to finish writing my thesis work :/ | 11:14 |
| shan | yuriwho: vampire vibes intensify | 11:14 |
| shan | mefistofeles: i wish i was being productive | 11:14 |
| yuriwho | s/bonus/bolus damn auto spell correct twisting my words | 11:14 |
| mefistofeles | shan: same here, hence the "trying" | 11:14 |
| yuriwho | shan, link the Coronavirus vid you made! I think it is awesome | 11:15 |
| shan | Also, i made this little video about the epidemic (well. the social aspect of it anyway. Would love it if you could all give it a watch and give your opinions.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqz4jLa13k8 | 11:15 |
| shan | yuriwho: you're too kind :) | 11:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:21 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Germania → https://is.gd/W1Wick | 11:24 |
| mefistofeles | shan: nice video, a bit too dramatic for my taste :) but thanks for sharing | 11:37 |
| shan | mefistofeles: hehe, thanks for watching! | 11:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:30 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Spain proposes €1.5tn EU Covid-19 fund as Trump backs lockdown protesters → https://is.gd/Ar4F3H | 11:38 |
| mefistofeles | shan: I'm really looking forward to go back to playing drums and riding a bicycle. I'm far from my drumkit and bike :P | 11:40 |
| yuriwho | I broke out my classical guitar today mefistofeles | 11:42 |
| shan | mefistofeles: i wish i had known you when i was making the film :P I would have asked you to contribute | 11:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:43 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Cina → https://is.gd/obvlty | 11:45 |
| mefistofeles | shan: haha ok, but confinement is not that hard one me, tbh. Iñ m not really used to go out and be around many people. But of course I enjoy company as most humans do, naturally. | 11:46 |
| mefistofeles | *on me | 11:46 |
| mefistofeles | oh hell, really bad at typing xD | 11:47 |
| shan | mefistofeles: actually most people on irc suffer from this problem | 11:47 |
| shan | i say suffer because it made it much harder for me to get content for this film | 11:47 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, probably there's a correlation there between isolating and IRC :P | 11:48 |
| yuriwho | I enjoy the quarantine... it lets me think in peace without distractions | 11:50 |
| shan | mefistofeles++ LOL | 11:51 |
| Timvde | yuriwho: since your Q/A sessions were in the middle of the night for me, and I really couldn't stay awake, no matter how much I tried, a question | 11:51 |
| shan | yuriwho: my family is all home sadly so it's not very peaceful | 11:51 |
| Timvde | yuriwho: Is there a potential correlation between the increasing temperatures and the lowering number of infections? A colleague of mine believes so, but I don't think I have seen any evidence of that. | 11:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 09:49 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Torino. Altro video della manifestazione di oggi → https://is.gd/2SfHgj | 11:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:56 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Spain's confirmed cases surpass 200,000, health ministry says: The number of coronavirus infections in Southeast Asia has risen quickly in recent weeks, worrying experts that the region could turn into a hot spot. → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 12:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:16 UTC: Business: UK household finances weakest since 2011 amid Covid-19 lockdown – business live → https://is.gd/ClixAu | 12:21 |
| mefistofeles | so, accordig to university we can go back to work in our offices... and some shops are reopening, interesting | 12:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:29 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Boris Johnson 'very concerned' about second wave of infections if lockdown lifted too soon → https://is.gd/QnVT6d | 12:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:45 UTC: European markets edge lower amid sharp drop in US oil prices: European stocks were slightly lower on Monday as global coronavirus developments and a fall in U.S. oil prices remained in focus. → https://is.gd/2n12uD | 12:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:06 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna → https://is.gd/TVSyV5 | 13:11 |
| Flaviker | !covid bulgaria | 13:25 |
| CoronaBot | Bulgaria: Global rank: #82, cases: 915 (+21), fatalities: 43 (+1), active cases: 705, total recovered: 167, in a serious condition: 36. Mortality: 4.70%, case fatality rate: 20.48%, cases/1M: 132.0, deaths/1M: 6.0. Case rate: 16/24h, death rate: 1/24h. Tests: 26,417, tests/1M: 3,802. | 13:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:24 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Haiti → https://is.gd/4MYllm | 13:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:25 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: US markets not ready for a 'second wave,' Spain's cases top 200,000: Covid-19 has infected more than 2,416,135 people around the world, killing at least 165,939 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 13:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:35 UTC: Spain's confirmed cases surpass 200,000, health ministry says: The number of coronavirus infections in Southeast Asia has risen quickly in recent weeks, worrying experts that the region could turn into a hot spot. → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 13:39 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-military-sympt-idUSKCN21Y2GB?fbclid=IwAR09bW-Bwv_TbB0H6mndmPJVupq7qO0hgxmxvNQoTkbYS3ssykI0wDwz-Mg | 13:50 |
| mefistofeles | high portion of asymptomatic cases, kinda expected. Just another data on how testing is really important to track this | 13:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:52 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Singapore → https://is.gd/eFSkcW | 13:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:59 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/zHo0Re | 14:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 12:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: 'Low confidence' over arrival of PPE from Turkey → https://is.gd/77sxSR | 14:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:17 UTC: Air pollution: Air pollution may be ‘key contributor’ to Covid-19 deaths – study → https://is.gd/V7JYrv | 14:22 |
| _abc_ | A horible chronology. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8234951/RICHARD-PENDLEBURY-JOHN-NASH-Chinas-role-coronavirus-crisis.html | 14:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:23 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: US markets not ready for a 'second wave,' Spain's cases top 200,000: Covid-19 has infected more than 2,416,100 people around the world, killing at least 165,939 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 14:29 |
| sneep | Of course it's horrible, it has dailymail right in the domain name | 14:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 12:37 UTC: (news): Coronavirus in Wales: Call for action on ethnic minorities virus risks → https://is.gd/WvcwRC | 14:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:47 UTC: (news): United Airlines posts $2.1 billion pretax loss as coronavirus roils business, seeks more federal aid → https://is.gd/ZgnSEP | 14:51 |
| ecov | so minorities are at higher risk not because of genetics but because they're not eating their peas and carrots? | 14:53 |
| ecov | and they smoke? | 14:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:53 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: US markets not ready for a 'second wave,' Spain's cases top 200,000: Covid-19 has infected more than 2,416,100 people around the world, killing at least 165,939 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 14:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:58 UTC: Spain's confirmed coronavirus cases surpass 200,000, health ministry says: The number of people diagnosed with the coronavirus in Spain has now surpassed 200,000, the country's health ministry said on Monday. → https://is.gd/0Re09E | 15:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:06 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Spain proposes €1.5tn EU Covid-19 fund; US blocks pro-WHO statement by G20 → https://is.gd/Ar4F3H | 15:12 |
| Butterfly^ | https://www.newsweek.com/kentucky-reports-highest-coronavirus-infection-increase-after-week-protests-reopen-state-1498835 | 15:18 |
| Butterfly^ | Title: Kentucky Reports Highest Coronavirus Infection Increase After a Week of Protests to Reopen State | 15:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:10 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: US markets not ready for a 'second wave,' Spain's cases top 200,000: Covid-19 has infected more than 2,416,100 people around the world, killing at least 165,939 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 15:19 |
| NAME | event201 was in new york and Peru? | 15:30 |
| _abc_ | Well Spain has a pop. ca. 47 million. 200,000 cases is a lot but nowhere near even seeing the end of it. | 15:40 |
| _abc_ | People are really grasping at straws trying to explain why and where. Seriously. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/20/air-pollution-may-be-key-contributor-to-covid-19-deaths-study | 15:42 |
| NAME | MERS 2012 evolved/made from SARS 2002 ? | 15:44 |
| NAME | was | 15:44 |
| _abc_ | My hunch would be that the same environment conditions which prevented NOx dispersion in those areas also prevented airborne Covi-19 dispersion in the same areas. | 15:45 |
| l0ndoner[m] | sup peeps o/........ | 15:45 |
| NAME | hello | 15:45 |
| NAME | freenode has intelligent smart people even in covid channel ? | 15:46 |
| l0ndoner[m] | what you wanna know? | 15:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:43 UTC: United Airlines posts $2.1 billion loss on coronavirus hit, seeks more federal aid: United said it lost $2.1 billion in the first quarter, some of the first detail of damage from coronavirus on the airline business. → https://is.gd/ZgnSEP | 15:48 |
| NAME | why is nobody chatting | 15:48 |
| NAME | 633 users | 15:48 |
| ubLIX | because we are all staring at you | 15:48 |
| NAME | they are researching and thinking ? | 15:48 |
| l0ndoner[m] | some people still work... Like me | 15:49 |
| NAME | i cant find money job till I die | 15:49 |
| NAME | freelancer website is scam | 15:50 |
| NAME | online poker gives zer0 return or loss | 15:51 |
| NAME | cov2 and pneumonia are same | 15:52 |
| l0ndoner[m] | protein is similar to HiV to be honest | 15:52 |
| NAME | i could have been seen under nanoscope even before 2019 | 15:53 |
| NAME | we can see any of 1000000 bacteria or virus if scan test them all | 15:53 |
| NAME | only 10% have been named | 15:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:46 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: US markets not ready for a 'second wave,' Spain's cases top 200,000: Covid-19 has infected more than 2,416,100 people around the world, killing at least 165,939 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 15:55 |
| NAME | Cov2 has 2% death chance, that more than or less than pnepumonia ? | 15:55 |
| NAME | Londoner, everyone in UK lives in London ? | 15:56 |
| NAME | England | 15:56 |
| explore | be safe every1 hugs | 15:56 |
| NAME | cheap cov2 test kits false positiving all | 15:57 |
| NAME | 100000 virus and bacteria infection release 100000 different kinds of antibodies in body? | 15:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:50 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Spain proposes €1.5tn EU Covid-19 fund; US blocks pro-WHO statement by G20 → https://is.gd/Ar4F3H | 16:02 |
| iz | NAME: viruses yeah, pretty sure bacteria are fought a diff way, by like other cells that eat them | 16:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:06 UTC: United Airlines posts $2.1 billion loss on coronavirus hit, seeks more federal aid: United said it lost $2.1 billion in the first quarter, some of the first detail of damage from coronavirus on the airline business. → https://is.gd/ZgnSEP | 16:09 |
| _abc_ | lol. "anything we do not control or are not part of is meaningless". Nothing to see here. Note I'm not in UK but similar things are happening elsewhere. Idiots, like the world is spinning around them. People are selling property everywhere to raise cash to weather the crisis. | 16:12 |
| _abc_ | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-8236197/Housing-market-abrupt-turnaround-number-new-homes-sale-collapse-lockdown.html | 16:13 |
| _abc_ | Effing sales drones glued to their Excels, should get infected a bit more I think. Sorry to say this but it's the way it is. | 16:13 |
| _abc_ | Wow do these people really have to eat everything? Preferrably cute and furry or scaly? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233427/Chinese-bred-huge-RATS-meat-celebrated-100-reasons-eat-coronavirus.html | 16:14 |
| mars_ | i dont think its the bat btw | 16:15 |
| _abc_ | That being said, Cuy Maximus / Capybarra is a thing in Argentina too but meh not related to any outbreaks and dones for a long time already. | 16:15 |
| mars_ | i think its more of an experiment gone wrong tbh _abc_ | 16:15 |
| _abc_ | It was probably not the bat. The bat is capable of carrying various viruses among others sars (all versions) causing ones. The bat was likely not the original reservoir. | 16:15 |
| _abc_ | Much more likely something bats suck blood from was that. | 16:16 |
| mars_ | hmm | 16:16 |
| ubLXI | that is a leap. why do you say that? | 16:16 |
| _abc_ | The real problem is that the genetic distance between what is killing people and what was found in bats is about as large as the distance between chimps and homo sapiens. | 16:16 |
| ubLXI | also, quit linking daily mail articles, will ya | 16:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:14 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Facebook releases symptom tracking map, Novartis to conduct malaria drug trial: Covid-19 has infected more than 2,416,100 people around the world, killing at least 165,939 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 16:16 |
| _abc_ | ubLXI: maybe. | 16:17 |
| mars_ | btw what if this virus has a kill switch or maybe this is an experiment | 16:18 |
| mars_ | what if we as humans are a test rat | 16:19 |
| ubLXI | mars_: shoosh | 16:19 |
| farn | btw what if pigs can fly | 16:20 |
| mars_ | they cant farn | 16:20 |
| mars_ | dont be a douche lol | 16:21 |
| farn | oh okay | 16:21 |
| _abc_ | Surely pigs fly. | 16:22 |
| _abc_ | http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170508-how-the-pink-floyd-pig-was-a-sign-of-protest | 16:22 |
| _abc_ | Non paywalled, non insular nazi "intellectual property" site on the same subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd_pigs | 16:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:14 UTC: New York City extends cancellation of summer festivals, concerts and parades through June: New York City is canceling concerts, festivals and all other nonessential events through June as the city seeks to drive down its coronavirus infection rate, Mayor Bill de Blasio announced Monday. → https://is.gd/ay9RCt | 16:23 |
| mars_ | ffs | 16:24 |
| mars_ | man i have to cancel my flight to rio | 16:24 |
| _abc_ | Would make pat downs fascinating. They must be so anyway already. Breaking social distancing rules. | 16:25 |
| Mr_Pink | lmao mars_ wb to freenode | 16:25 |
| Mr_Pink | can we baseball yet | 16:25 |
| _abc_ | Mr_Pink: I think you can baseball alone as much as you want. In your own back yard? | 16:25 |
| Mr_Pink | I actually watch baseball every morning. | 16:25 |
| Mr_Pink | There was no baseball today tho. I haven't missed a game of the CPBL since day 1! | 16:26 |
| Mr_Pink | Games start at 3:35am local time so it has totally fucked my sleep schedule but its worth it. They've all been a blast. | 16:26 |
| Mr_Pink | I just havent been on efnet and havent seen mars in forever we used to chat about the beisbol on there. | 16:27 |
| mars_ | well i dont know you bro lol Mr_Pink | 16:28 |
| mars_ | i think you are confusing me with someone else | 16:28 |
| mars_ | its my first time here | 16:28 |
| Mr_Pink | I thought you were mArs_ | 16:28 |
| mars_ | nah man its mars_ | 16:28 |
| mars_ | and tell him to change his name | 16:28 |
| Mr_Pink | well its good to meetcha | 16:28 |
| mars_ | me too | 16:28 |
| Mr_Pink | hahah | 16:28 |
| mars_ | so where you guys are from | 16:28 |
| mars_ | i presume Mr_Pink is from US | 16:29 |
| Mr_Pink | Yup. West Coast Best Coast. | 16:29 |
| Mr_Pink | We were flattening the curve before it was cool. | 16:29 |
| Mr_Pink | how about u | 16:29 |
| mars_ | mother russia | 16:29 |
| mars_ | communism prevails | 16:29 |
| _abc_ | mars_: so, everyone is equal, and those who are more equal have everything? | 16:30 |
| Mr_Pink | oh nice. the country that votes more in the US election than we do :P | 16:30 |
| mars_ | well comrades | 16:30 |
| mars_ | you might never know this but Putin is a communist | 16:30 |
| mars_ | deep inside ofc | 16:30 |
| mars_ | he loves communism | 16:30 |
| Mr_Pink | Putin is a Putinist | 16:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:25 UTC: European markets flat amid sharp drop in US oil prices: European stocks were flat on Monday as global coronavirus developments and a fall in U.S. oil prices were in focus. → https://is.gd/2n12uD | 16:31 |
| mars_ | well Putinism is part of communism | 16:31 |
| _abc_ | You can tell a communist leader apart from a capitalist billionaire by checking their toilets and castles. Golden toilet and more than 5 castles means communist. | 16:31 |
| mars_ | like leninsm | 16:31 |
| Mr_Pink | At least the Borgias had better outfits | 16:31 |
| mars_ | man | 16:36 |
| mars_ | this world is FUBAR | 16:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:35 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Bergamo → https://is.gd/khN9Ot | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:44 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: New York → https://is.gd/17Wcu2 | 16:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:55 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: No 10 says priority is avoiding second peak of infections when it considers easing lockdown → https://is.gd/QnVT6d | 17:06 |
| ubLIX | https://www.economist.com/business/2020/04/18/the-economic-crisis-will-expose-a-decades-worth-of-corporate-fraud | 17:10 |
| ubLIX | %t | 17:10 |
| Brainstorm | ubLIX: From www.economist.com: Who’s lost their trunks? - The economic crisis will expose a decade’s worth of corporate fraud | Business | The Economist | 17:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:08 UTC: United Airlines posts $2.1 billion loss on coronavirus hit, seeks more federal aid: United said it lost $2.1 billion in the first quarter, some of the first detail of damage from coronavirus on the airline business. → https://is.gd/ZgnSEP | 17:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:18 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Oggi ci sarà una conferenza stampa della Protezione Civile → https://is.gd/qopgmY | 17:20 |
| LjL | oh yay there IS going to be a civil protection press conference today | 17:21 |
| LjL | no longer daily flood, but mondayly flood at least! | 17:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:21 UTC: United Airlines posts $2.1 billion loss on coronavirus hit, seeks more federal aid: United said it lost $2.1 billion in the first quarter, some of the first detail of damage from coronavirus on the airline business. → https://is.gd/ZgnSEP | 17:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:31 UTC: Southeast Asia could be the next coronavirus hot spot — these charts show why: The number of coronavirus infections in Southeast Asia has risen quickly in recent weeks, with mounting worries among experts that the region could turn into the next hot spot. → https://is.gd/fiEzHX | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:39 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: New York → https://is.gd/XKk1Z0 | 17:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:46 UTC: United Airlines posts $2.1 billion loss on coronavirus hit, seeks more federal aid: United said it lost $2.1 billion in the first quarter, some of the first detail of damage from coronavirus on the airline business. → https://is.gd/ZgnSEP | 17:49 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: The Latest: Fauci says reopening too quickly will backfire (10883 votes) | https://redd.it/g4s61c | 17:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:53 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Facebook releases symptom tracking map, Novartis to conduct malaria drug trial: Covid-19 has infected more than 2,416,100 people around the world, killing at least 165,939 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 17:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:53 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: At least 100 UK healthcare workers have died from coronavirus, figures show → https://is.gd/96VC3P | 18:03 |
| Butterfly^ | https://imgur.com/gallery/UqO5D1A Countries/politicians more interested in starting up the economy than trying to save lives | 18:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:01 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Facebook releases symptom tracking map, Novartis to conduct malaria drug trial: Covid-19 has infected more than 2.4 million people around the world, killing at least 165,939 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 18:10 |
| LjL | Italy's now twice-weekly Civil Protection press conference starting now at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvHnsaBmUPA and I will translate or take some notes | 18:15 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Good evening, thanks to Prof. Luca Richeldi, director of Pneumology at the Gemelli hospital in Rome. | 18:15 |
| LjL | Today we have 181228 cases, +2556. | 18:15 |
| LjL | Currently positive are 108238, -20. This is the first time we have a decrease here. | 18:16 |
| majorasparagus0[ | <mefistofeles "high portion of asymptomatic cas"> or, alternatively, how the tests are not working and the experts really have no clue | 18:16 |
| LjL | Pressure on hospital is also still going down: 2537 are in ICU, -62. | 18:16 |
| LjL | This is the lowest number of ICU in a month. | 18:16 |
| LjL | 24906 are hospitalized with symptoms, -127. | 18:16 |
| LjL | Most positive people are self-isolating without symptoms or mild symptoms, 80758, 75% of the total. | 18:17 |
| LjL | +454 deaths today, and recoveries are 48877 in total, +1822. | 18:17 |
| LjL | Nearly 90% of recoveries were registered since after March 20. | 18:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:17 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: AGGIORNAMENTO 20/04/2020 ORE 17.00 POSITIVI AL nCov INCREMENTO. Totale —_| DIMESSI/ CASI TOTALI i i | Terapi DECEDUT!} CASI TOTALI TAMPONI Ricoverati | Terapia | Isolamento i GUARITI fe emp ; precedente) Regione con sintomi| intensiva | domi Lombardia 10.138 901 23.548 +735 270.486 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Q6TUOc | 18:17 |
| LjL | We still have a high number of volunteers, 19398. | 18:18 |
| LjL | We have 128 million euro in donations now, and 46 million have been spent for PPEs and ventilators. | 18:18 |
| LjL | There are two new requests, one for hiring a new medical task force, and another 1500 socio-sanitary operators that should be hired mainly for nursing homes and places for disabled people, as well as support in prisons. | 18:19 |
| LjL | These job openings will expire on Wednesday and Thursday respectively. | 18:19 |
| LjL | I also want to thank a medical team coming from Albania, 60 health workers, who will be assigned to the region of Marche. | 18:20 |
| LjL | I told you earlier that the regions are researching which structures can be used for people's self-isolations, and this research is almost complete: I can provide a data point, aside from the ~6000 places in national structures, now we have 12230 beds at the regional level. About 4000 are occupied currently. | 18:21 |
| LjL | (Richeldi) Just a short summary of the data you provided, and a view on them in a slightly longer timeframe. | 18:21 |
| LjL | We have a snapshot made up of 6 parameters. Some of them we're happy if they go up, some if they go down. Clearly we're happy if hosptialized go down, ICU pressure goes down, the positives in general, and obviously the fatalities. Then there are two parameters that indicate an improvement if they go up, namely self-isolating people and recovered. | 18:23 |
| LjL | Right now out of these 6 parameters only one is not going the way we'd like: the fatalities. They are still above 400, but epidemiologists tell us that it will be the last parameter that goes towards the desired direction. | 18:23 |
| LjL | It's important today to see a decrease in the "currently positive". It's slight, just 20, but it is the first time. | 18:24 |
| LjL | I think this is an extremely encouraging sign. It is also encouraging to look at the past few weeks, and hospitalizations have gone down consistently, and so has ICU use, so there is a CLEAR reduction on hospital pressure, which was catastrophic earlier in out country. | 18:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:20 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Facebook releases symptom tracking map, Novartis to conduct malaria drug trial: Covid-19 has infected more than 2.4 million people around the world, killing at least 165,939 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 18:25 |
| LjL | The painful number of deaths have various epidemiological explanations, and it must make us think again about what happened, and realize the battle is not won; we may be in a time of relative peace, but cannot lower our guard. | 18:25 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) We'll give space to the questions now. | 18:25 |
| LjL | Q: Bad news from Paris, the possible presence in the sewage waters. Has this problem even been noticed anywhere in Italy, and very theoretically, could there be issues, also considering our lack of water depuration with many places that just dump sewage water into rivers and seas? | 18:26 |
| LjL | A: Yes, this is bad news, they found viral RNA in water samples. Now, the presence of viral RNA is not the same as saying there is the virus itself. The intact virion, infectious, may not be there. It's a new virus so we'll have to learn more, but I don't think this news should be overly alarming or change our behaviors. | 18:27 |
| LjL | Q: Why does contagion in Lombardy not seem to go down, at least not in the same way as the rest of the country? When do you estimate there will be zero new cases? And, is the "end of June" timeframe that the Health Institute provided reasonable? | 18:28 |
| LjL | A: As to the Health Observatory study, as all studies currently available, are models, that try to predict contagion. These models have intrinsic limits: they are trying to predict the future, and they cannot take into account the measures that will be taken in the future. Aside from these limits, it's not surprising that Lombardy and Piedmont have more viral circulation, because they just started from higher levels. | 18:30 |
| LjL | What we are seeing is a substantial, consistent decrease, but very slow and gradual. When you have a large mass of infected people, you also have slower decrease. This does not show the measures are not working, but simply reflecting situations that are epidemiologically different. | 18:31 |
| LjL | Q: In Mantua they're experimenting with plasma from recovered people, using their antibodies, and they claim it's working... What do you know about it, what does the scientific committee know, is there experimentation going on, and does this have good chances? | 18:31 |
| genera | plasmatic antibodies | 18:32 |
| LjL | A: It's interesting: the transfer of plasma, transferring passive humoral immunity from a recovered person to a sick person, has been done since before 1900 in medical practice, so before we even had antibiotics; so it is valid and effective and we know that. Now, whether it is valid and effective, and safe, in THIS particular disease, we don't know yet. My colleagues in Mantua are certainly doing great experimentation which we hope will give fruit. | 18:33 |
| LjL | it's an approach that's medically recognized and potentially effective; we simply don't have a definite answer because it's not been long enough yet. AIFA is supervising experimentation, and as with other diagnostics and therapeutics, I think we'll have more certain answers in a short amount of time. For now, it's a hope. | 18:34 |
| dzho | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiserum | 18:35 |
| LjL | Q: About the decrease in ICU, does that mean we also have better tools to face the virus in a [inaudible] way, or does the virus itself get less aggressive? | 18:35 |
| genera | err naught! | 18:35 |
| genera | so, the studies in Mantua are .. supervised and licenced? | 18:36 |
| LjL | A: I would honestly not count on the virus becoming less aggressive, and I would tend to assume it's just not so. Doctors are getting more experienced, especially with how best to treat patients with respiratory insufficiency, that is indeed true. There is ample literature coming out, from our own countries and others, discussing efficacy of various ventilation techniques and support techniques: heparine therapy, reduced antiviral use... | 18:36 |
| LjL | We are learning from experience, and I believe the drastic decrease we see in ICU use is due to better management of patients but also lower virus circulation. | 18:36 |
| LjL | Q: But also, the tools that have been provided by the Civil Protection, like technical tools, like ventilators, etc, that has helped health structures? | 18:37 |
| LjL | A: That the situation is better two days than two months ago is easy to say. They are not only more experienced but also better equipped. | 18:37 |
| LjL | Q: There's a lot of discussion about the app to trace infected people. But what is that app for, I wonder, if tests aren't done on everyone, they are not available for everyone, and can't be done in a mass way, also considering the app is downloadable on a voluntary basis? And I'd also like to know, Prof. Richeldi... some young, healthy person who got infected and had to be admitted to ICU, will they have lung damage in the future? | 18:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:36 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Società → https://is.gd/ASY7kY | 18:39 |
| LjL | A: The app will be very useful to know who is positive, somehow, and I didn't mention the number of tests today, but starting today we also have the total number of people tested: 1398000 tests have been performed, on a total of 943151 people. | 18:40 |
| LjL | So we are getting equipped with tests, the number is growing; by combining tests, the app, and measures for tracing positives and contact we can put in place a more effective approach. | 18:40 |
| LjL | (Richeldi) Just one thing about the app: it will be on a voluntary basis, as you said... I think that's going to be one of the times when we can witness the responsibility of our citizens, and I expect large adoption of this. | 18:41 |
| LjL | Lungs: people who go into ICU very often do have pneumonia, and the data from other countries that had this issue before us tell us that about 30% of these get out of ICU with respiratory insufficiency. | 18:42 |
| LjL | Our Health Minister has announced that COVID hospitals will be kept into place in the long term, and I expect these hospitals will be charged with doing follow-up on patients, seeing what happens in time to their lungs: knowing if they are going to need respiratory assistance, rehabilitation, other measures... So yes, there will be a group of patients with respiratory issues, hopefully for as short a time as possible, and I'm sure they will be adequately | 18:43 |
| LjL | monitored and treated. | 18:43 |
| LjL | Q: On nursing homes, which we have followed a lot, especially in Lombardy... since Governor Fontana said he was advised by "technical people" to move the latest positive people from hospitals to nursing home... I want to understand, when he said "technical", I assume he also referred to the Crisis Unit of the Civil Protection... was it a mistake to give such advice, with hindsight? In China they opened COVID hospitals immediately. Another thing is, as we | 18:45 |
| LjL | said there is a decrease, and while we wait for the app to be available, in homes, how are self-isolating patients get monitored? Other countries are seeing a higher decrease than ours even though they were infected later, so have they been better with isolating infected people? | 18:45 |
| LjL | A: (Borrelli) Managing healthcare is a prerogative of the regions, with coordination from the Ministry. As to the Civil Protection, we did not give any such advice. | 18:46 |
| LjL | I cannot tell you whether it was a mistake or not, but I can say, for what concerns me, the Civil Protection was not involved. | 18:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:42 UTC: New York coronavirus deaths still 'horrifically high' even as outbreak appears to slow, Gov. Cuomo says: Coronavirus deaths in New York totaled 478 on Sunday, Gov. Cuomo said, though some projections of the state's outbreak suggest it may be on the verge of a "descent," Gov. Andrew Cuomo said → https://is.gd/oD29tX | 18:46 |
| LjL | As a system, we are only supporting the emergency, we gave our contribution, but this particular thing was not in our scope. | 18:46 |
| LjL | We simply give no indications on such. | 18:47 |
| LjL | [Journalist insists, inaudible] | 18:47 |
| LjL | We also won't give any such indications in the future. | 18:47 |
| LjL | (Richeldi) As with most other infectious diseases, there are three main points: identification of cases, tracing of contacts, and isolation. These are the milestones for controlling any infectious disease. They make use of various healthcare services, and in particular, territorial services are in charge of tracing contacts and isolation. | 18:48 |
| LjL | Many years ago, this used to happen thanks to territorial intruments, which were very effective. You may be young and not remember, but I am a specialist in physiology too and remember anti-tubercolosis unit, which were a milestone in preventing circulation of TB, almost eradicating it entirely. | 18:49 |
| LjL | So there are territorial units that are in charge of finding contacts and isolating them. But territorial medicine is now delegated to the regions. | 18:49 |
| LjL | The new thing we have compared to TB is technology: this app is a further instrument that wasn't available then, and which showed high efficacy in countries that used it, like South Korea. | 18:50 |
| LjL | This activity will be very important in the coming months, and I think the strengthening of territorial medicine is going in that direction. | 18:50 |
| LjL | Tools like this app are obviously most welcome for this tracing ability that is critical, but not easy to achieve. | 18:50 |
| LjL | [inaudible] | 18:50 |
| LjL | I don't think we can say this... our curve is different from other countries', partially, it rose very quickly at first, and I don't think we can say we have been inadequate... but we'll be able to determine that in coming months. | 18:51 |
| LjL | I will say that since this app is on a voluntary basis, it will not have useful effects if it is not widely adopted, by a large majority of people. | 18:51 |
| LjL | [inaudible] | 18:52 |
| LjL | Epidemiologists say... 70%, or 80%, but they also say the more people use it, the more effective it'll be. | 18:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:50 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: New York begins antibody testing, public anger growing in Spain over death count: Covid-19 has infected more than 2.4 million people around the world, killing at least 165,939 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 18:53 |
| LjL | Q: Of these 454 people who died, when did they really die? What is the delay from death to reporting? We hear rumors that the delay is not short. Same for new cases: Dr. Gismondo said that there are at least 10-12 days between becoming positive and that being notified to you. If this timeframe is so long, it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare the number of tests done today and the number of cases... if anything we should talk about the number of tests | 18:55 |
| LjL | made 10 days ago! And on nursing homes, I'd like to ask if you intend to (there have been various studies on nursing homes now to try to understand how many people have already died, and I think you already do include the deaths of people there who tested positive), but, we know it, there are many, many more people. France already published official data on an estimate on deaths in nursing homes. Do you also intend to do this, to give a truer estimate of | 18:55 |
| LjL | deaths in Italy? And to the Professor, this "plateau" of deaths has been present for a few days, and you said it will be the last number to go down... but it was said that without a strong decreate in deaths a week from then, it means something isn't working, and we have to wonder if things aren't going as they should. Do you agree? | 18:55 |
| LjL | A: (Borrelli) I'll start with the question on the data. We have daily data, that the regions communicate to us; the regions tell us the number of tests and positives found, day by day, and on deaths too, we get regions communicating to us and the Ministry the data point on deaths, day by day. Clearly the data on deaths is restricted to people who did get a test and were positive. We also know there is a study in progress on nursing home, by the ISS, which | 18:57 |
| LjL | will hopefully provide all the information you asked for very soon. | 18:57 |
| LjL | As to us, we can only give you the data the Ministry provides based on what the regions provide. | 18:57 |
| LjL | [inaudible] | 18:57 |
| LjL | I assume it's deaths within the past 24 hours: it would not make sense to add deaths... unless there was a mistake, as sometimes happened, but we clearly stated it, when there was an error on data, both on new positives and deaths. Otherwise, it's data for the past 24 hours. | 18:58 |
| LjL | Q: But on cases... this delay of 8-12 days, is it plausible? | 18:58 |
| LjL | A: I... well... I can't... the data is... we refer to cases related to new tests that are communicated. Normally it takes a day to provide a test results. There are some structures which provide a test result within 6 hours. So as far as I know, it's day-by-day data. I don't know this study, these observations by Dr Gismondo. | 18:59 |
| LjL | (Richeldi) I'm sorry too, I haven't read the declaration of Prof. Crisanti, but I can interpret its spirit. The question you asked on deaths is very important: the ISS, which is evaluating deaths in detail, tells us that on average, people who died were hospitalized about two weeks ago. So even though we receive the number of deaths in "real time", we are still seeing something that happened a while ago, people who were in hospital for two weeks on | 19:00 |
| LjL | average, or even more. | 19:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:58 UTC: New York coronavirus deaths still 'horrifically high' even as outbreak appears to slow, Gov. Cuomo says: Coronavirus deaths in New York totaled 478 on Sunday, Gov. Cuomo said, though some projections of the state's outbreak suggest it may be on the verge of a "descent," Gov. Andrew Cuomo said → https://is.gd/oD29tX | 19:01 |
| LjL | But what I'd like to say is that of those six variables we have, this is still the only one that's going in the wrong direction. That is because deaths are going up. But other indicators are going in the right directions. Experts tell us that deaths will normalize last. So I'd say that while Prof. Crisanti is an expert and I will read his statement carefully... the fact that we've had a decreasing number of deaths in the past four days, around 400, while | 19:02 |
| LjL | we've had 600, 800, even 1000 before... even THAT trend is going downwards ultimately, if very slowly, in my personal opinion. So I wouldn't take that as a parameter that concludes something's happening that is escaping our understanding. But I will read the statement. | 19:02 |
| LjL | Q: Two related questions: transparency, and communication. I think all journalists and citizens are happy that Dr Borrelli has always answered, ot tried to answer, the questions he's been asked in the past months... but now the decisional process appears to be moving to the task force, and the President of it is showing no sign of communication, despite, again, decisions getting made there now. As you are also part of that committee as experts: I don't | 19:05 |
| LjL | want to ask you to tell us when and how the task force will communicate, but at least, if you can tell us whether the ISSUE of communication has been discussed within the task force itself. | 19:05 |
| LjL | The second question is connected: we are all happy that we're in a phase where things are getting better, at least we hope, and some people are already digging into the past: it's all about transparency, communication and taking responsibility. A few days ago an MP of Five Star made a question to the PM and to the Health Minister asking why, in the yearly report that the Secret Service gave at the end of February, there was not a single reference to the | 19:06 |
| LjL | pandemic. | 19:06 |
| LjL | This morning, some colleagues analyzed the quibble they think there was between the Health Minister and the PM on the timeframe of lockdown: the Minister wanted to close down everything sooner, while the PM wanted to wait until later. | 19:07 |
| LjL | I hope there will be no need for a formal investigation, but don't you believe that the reports of the scientific committee should become public domain? | 19:07 |
| LjL | A: (Borrelli) Starting with the first question, I am indeed part of the task force led by President Colao, and we discussed during the very first session, there is a report on that, but the President will communicate with the PM and with the Minister... We cannot communicate with the public before communicating with them. | 19:08 |
| LjL | As to what you say, I was part to every meeting with the Minsiter of Health and the PM, and there was no difference of opinion on what to do. The PM said many times, and I'll say it again, that the measures adopted were adopted based on a principle of adequacy and proportionality. | 19:09 |
| LjL | As to the scientific committee's report, they are not kept secret; technically they contain information that are UNCLASSIFIED and unchecked; it's information and data that may be sensitive, and we are evaluating when to make them public. | 19:10 |
| LjL | We are evaluating it on a technical and legal basis... I have also not forgotten the question I was asked a few days ago. We'll provide these data as soon as possible, but it's clear there are data that, currently, still need to be kept private, hopefully for as short a time as possible. | 19:11 |
| LjL | But as a department, I can say we always ensured we are as transparent as possible, and are putting everything on the internet, and always working on improving our communication. | 19:11 |
| LjL | Q: Prof. Richeldi, as a member of the scientific committee, seeing the big difference in numbers between regions, like Lombardy with still lot of infections, while other regions register none, from a scientific point of view, in your opinion and the committee's opinion, would it be better to "re-open" on a regional or a national basis? | 19:12 |
| LjL | A: (Richeldi) This is a "hot" topic, but it does allow me to remark that we have four regions today reporting NO deaths, and 8 reporting less than 10 deaths. So, half of the regions in Italy have had less than 10 deaths today. | 19:13 |
| LjL | Whether it is more rational to re-open on a regional basis or nationally is not something I feel I can comment on. It depends on three factors: first, what the models say, and the models are evolving, as they gather new data from the territory, and as we get closer to the "deadline" of May, we get more information from the model. Second, the socio-economic situation is very different among regions, and third, there are different needs for inter-region | 19:14 |
| LjL | mobility. | 19:14 |
| LjL | So I expect that there will be a "network" of measures on the whole national territory; then on a regional or provincial level, if individual governors recommend specific measures, that's something that cannot be ruled out, but we'll have to see around May whether the cost/benefit of something like this will be favorable. | 19:15 |
| Butterfly^ | https://www.politico.eu/article/berlin-to-cover-coronavirus-treatment-costs-for-eu-patients-in-germany/ Germany has some of the highest numbers of intensive care beds in Europe. As of Monday morning, the country registered 141,672 confirmed coronavirus cases and 4,404 deaths, according to the Robert Koch Institute for disease control. | 19:15 |
| LjL | Q: But this IS something you are required to provide an opinion on, by May, right? | 19:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:12 UTC: (news): WHO says partisan politics and lack of global solidarity is fueling coronavirus pandemic → https://is.gd/3dqDvk | 19:15 |
| LjL | A: Certainly, it's only of the potential themes, topics that will influence the model that will be proposed, which will consider various scenarios, and the political deciders will then select the one with the best cost/benefit. | 19:16 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) So, that is all. Good evening, and see you again on Thursday. | 19:16 |
| LjL | --- end | 19:16 |
| LjL | Butterfly^, yes, it's not entirely clear how ICU bed availability influenced mortality (since they also tested more than Italy and others, etc), but I assume it was an important factor | 19:19 |
| Blankspace | Ljl will international flight resume from june | 19:20 |
| Butterfly^ | you're talking about mortality compared to confirmed infections | 19:20 |
| LjL | i very much doubt that, except maybe on an extremely restricted basis, Blankspace | 19:20 |
| l0ndoner | sup LjL o/ | 19:20 |
| l0ndoner | .... | 19:20 |
| Butterfly^ | mortality comares to ICU beds is a total different figure | 19:21 |
| LjL | Butterfly^, yes, so since we don't know the ratio between confirmed infections and actual infection, we also cannot infer from the apparent fatality rate how much a factor like ICU bed availability had a big role | 19:21 |
| LjL | but *my* guess is it had a big role | 19:21 |
| LjL | Butterfly^, it's certainly a different figure, but it seems natural that availability or unavailability of ICU beds influences prognosis and outcome | 19:22 |
| LjL | Italy had 5000 beds before this started, and Germany had 28000 | 19:22 |
| LjL | that is bound to make a difference IMO, a big one | 19:22 |
| LjL | l0ndoner, hi | 19:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from New Scientist at 17:24 UTC: Can breathing exercises really help protect you from covid-19?: Taking deep breaths and forcing a cough can help clear mucus, but these techniques are unlikely to prevent or treat coronavirus infections – here’s why → https://is.gd/758BpB | 19:23 |
| Danger_Zone | does smoking counts as a breathing exercise? | 19:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:27 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: New York begins antibody testing, public anger growing in Spain over death count: Covid-19 has infected more than 2.4 million people around the world, killing at least 166,794 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 19:30 |
| Danger_Zone | well Imo it does | 19:30 |
| oriba | We want your data.... https://www.ccc.de/de/updates/2020/abofalle-datenspende | 19:30 |
| aradesh | UK had quite a lower than normal for lately death toll today: 449. | 19:32 |
| Danger_Zone | so did us | 19:33 |
| Danger_Zone | yesterday was 2k | 19:33 |
| aradesh | that's good | 19:35 |
| aradesh | though if people keep going out to protest lock down, that trend won't last for long :p | 19:35 |
| aradesh | oh dear. singapore's graph of cases doesn't look very good for the last few weeks... | 19:35 |
| aradesh | saudi arabia neither | 19:36 |
| aradesh | austria's looking great | 19:36 |
| aradesh | australia too :) | 19:36 |
| Danger_Zone | austria didnt do lockdown? | 19:37 |
| dTal | LjL: another heroic effort on the transcription | 19:37 |
| aradesh | Danger_Zone: don't know | 19:37 |
| LjL | dTal, i'm cheating at this point, i paused it several times. which in a way is a good thing, it means it was more content-dense than other ones. | 19:37 |
| dTal | that's even more heroic really | 19:37 |
| LjL | some journalists really wanted to know things, especially a foreign one (you can't know he was a foreign one but i heard the accent so i do) | 19:38 |
| dTal | spending longer than real-time on a translation effort | 19:38 |
| Danger_Zone | https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-08/how-do-you-lift-a-covid-19-lockdown-ask-austria | 19:38 |
| dTal | it's a very nice record for the archives | 19:38 |
| LjL | dTal, honestly i'm rather glad they've changed it two twice a week instead of daily :P although that question about "moving power" from them to a more secretive task force... not sure i'm a fan, but it's also the first time i realize it's occurring | 19:38 |
| LjL | also a note: we're usually told by media that 60% is the threshold we need for adoption of the app, but he said 70% or 80% is "what epidemiologists tell him" | 19:40 |
| LjL | there is no way 80% of the population adopts a "voluntary" app if it's really voluntary, IMO | 19:41 |
| dTal | I'm torn about the app thing | 19:42 |
| Danger_Zone | give a bat burger with every install | 19:42 |
| dTal | done well it has the potential to possibly do good, although I've read objections that the idea isn't really epidemiologically sound | 19:42 |
| dTal | done badly, it's a horrifying panopticon | 19:43 |
| dTal | complete with a built-in think-of-the-children justification | 19:43 |
| LjL | dTal, i think it's silly that every country is doing their own, even in europe despite the existence of a coordinating entity that will "provide interoperability" (but in a very limited away aiui), and also when we have open source code from Singapore and what-have-you... plus, we *know* it's possible to make an app that is *fully* decentralized, and the drawback of that is it will rely on people installing it AND using it as directed. but... now, instead, | 19:44 |
| LjL | we're going for a proprietary app that sends things to a centralized entity evntually... but it will still be voluntary, meaning potentially little adoption | 19:44 |
| LjL | why would i adopt THAT? to me it's a very basic low bar, a minimum threshold, to be able to look at the code | 19:44 |
| dTal | Google and Apple have agreed on a framework and they plan to build it into Android/iOS | 19:44 |
| LjL | maybe i won't look at the code, but if it's not there for people to look at, to confirm it does what it claims it does... why. just why. this is a global health emergency. you're doing stuff. show us and share exactly what you're doing. if Singapore got that, surely we should get it too | 19:45 |
| dTal | which means it will not be opt-out meaningfully for most people | 19:45 |
| LjL | dTal, and i do have a feeling it will be more overarching and effective than EU interventions which are going to apparently be diluted into each country doing its own thing with some local software company | 19:45 |
| LjL | which in a way annoys me | 19:45 |
| LjL | because Google and Apple are going to provide something based on their own services, which i don't even *have* | 19:46 |
| LjL | while in a decent open source distributed approach, i could install this app too | 19:46 |
| LjL | now it's going to be not only "i don't want to", but even "i can't unless i format my whole phone and use it completely differently" | 19:46 |
| Danger_Zone | https://www.securityweek.com/silicon-valley-legends-launch-beyond-identity-quest-eliminate-passwords | 19:46 |
| mefistofeles | majorasparagus0[: Responding your message from hours ago. No, the test work, that's exactly how they know there are asymptomatic cases. | 19:46 |
| dTal | I don't entirely see how you *can* provide interoperability between schemes which are designed to preserve privacy, if they are designed to work in fundamentally different ways | 19:46 |
| dTal | if one scheme uses GPS proximity, and another uses Bluetooth beacon proximity, you can't interoperate those | 19:47 |
| LjL | dTal, that's one thing, i don't think you can. so i'd have favored an EU approach which would have essentially resulted in a *single* app working in *one* way, if perhaps with "flavoring" added on by each country, you know... a different catchy name and icon... whatever | 19:47 |
| dTal | LeoBodnar asserts that we need hardware tokens | 19:47 |
| dTal | I don't know how feasable that is | 19:48 |
| LjL | dTal, i think the what's it called, EP-PPPT? group said GPS is going to be off-limits. or... well, our Privacy Authority said GPS is going to be off-limits, anyway | 19:48 |
| dTal | but if it were compatible with the Apple/Google scheme, it seems like a no-brainer | 19:48 |
| Danger_Zone | just give a drop of blood to seal the pact | 19:48 |
| dTal | then most people could use the smartphone system, and people like you and me could use the short-supply tokens | 19:48 |
| LjL | dTal, i believe South Korea gives foreigners tracking bracelets they have to wear as they enter and stay in the country | 19:48 |
| LeoBodnar | lol I don't assert, I was just saying it was a good additional kit for smartphone deniers | 19:48 |
| dTal | LeoBodnar suggests then, sorry | 19:49 |
| dTal | but compatibility is key | 19:49 |
| LeoBodnar | BLE is a standard | 19:49 |
| LeoBodnar | and profiles are standardised | 19:49 |
| dTal | yes but the protocol/schema too | 19:49 |
| Danger_Zone | dna is the password | 19:49 |
| LjL | dTal, LeoBodnar: i read a decent article about all this in Italian yesterday, including both Italian, EU-wide and worldwide perspectives... at least i thought it was decent for italian standards. let me see if google translate can provide an acceptable version | 19:49 |
| mefistofeles | So. Somebody told me today that apparently for Germany the R0 was already below 1 before lockdown measures, they claim some info released by the RKI. Any clues on that? | 19:49 |
| dTal | also there needs to be an app as well as the framework/token | 19:50 |
| dTal | that runs on vanilla android | 19:51 |
| Danger_Zone | what do you call the step beyond mitigation | 19:51 |
| LjL | it sort of can i think | 19:51 |
| LjL | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.agendadigitale.eu%2Fcultura-digitale%2Fimmuni-come-funziona-lapp-italiana-contro-il-coronavirus%2F | 19:51 |
| Danger_Zone | consolidation? | 19:52 |
| LjL | you may see pieces in italian but they should be translated after some seconds | 19:52 |
| LjL | Danger_Zone, i'm not sure, it may depend on what you actually want to do, like you may go for full suppression again, as it may be more feasible when you have herd immunity (probably not going to happen, but as an example) | 19:52 |
| dTal | LjL: that looks superficially great, same system as Google/Apple | 19:54 |
| dTal | they should agree on a standard and get them to *actually* interoperate | 19:54 |
| LjL | dTal, note that the article speaks of an open source solution, but i don't think that is at all clear. the LAW says that the *company* will provide the app *to the government* under an open license. that makes it very unclear whether the license will be available to everyone else too | 19:54 |
| LjL | other articles interpret that differently | 19:55 |
| dTal | it at least means you can lobby the governent, who are in theory accountable | 19:55 |
| LjL | but there is no statute like in the US saying that what the government produces has to be open | 19:55 |
| dTal | seems to me like step 1 is to get everyone to agree on the International Standard Contact Tracing Protocol | 19:55 |
| LjL | that's one of the not-so-many things i like about US law | 19:55 |
| dTal | yes it's nice in theory but in practice things produced under contract - like this - can be closed in the US | 19:56 |
| dTal | only work of the government itself must be open | 19:56 |
| LjL | dTal, if there were really one common protocol, and not just a special "interoperability" product to dump the data from Italy to France in case something crosses the border, then if that protocol were open, i could make my own app for it, and it could be open, on F-Droid, and all that | 19:56 |
| LjL | but i don't think that's what the common protocol is | 19:56 |
| dTal | exactlyl | 19:57 |
| dTal | there should be a common protocol even if only so this bespoke Italian solution interoperates with Google/Apple | 19:57 |
| LjL | dTal, yes, that's a nasty loophole, but still, since i am somewhat familiar with earthquakes (can't say familiar with seismology)... look at https://github.com/usgs - there's a treasure trove of code there, even though some is hard to figure out and/or requires data sets that aren't fully public | 19:57 |
| dTal | but once you have the documented protocol, you don't have to rely on any one implementation | 19:57 |
| LjL | but for instance the new California ShakeAlert system for earthquake early warning was developed on contract, with Berkeley and others, and i think it's mostly closed, or all closed. you can't even get access to the warning signal freely. | 19:58 |
| dTal | the incentives line up right too | 19:58 |
| dTal | you can already write an app that monitors for the BLE broadcast packets, and is good enough to warn *you* if you've been exposed | 19:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:54 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Francia → https://is.gd/X8j8c4 | 19:59 |
| dTal | the only thing an open protocol enables is the ability for *you* to broadcast your own beacons | 19:59 |
| LjL | dTal, does the BLE packet directly come with an "... and I'm positive, or met someone positive!" flag? | 19:59 |
| dTal | no | 19:59 |
| dTal | the way it works is the packet contains a unique id | 20:00 |
| LjL | then can i query a central database and see if the ID is listed? | 20:00 |
| dTal | if they've been diagnosed | 20:00 |
| dTal | their id list is published | 20:00 |
| LjL | sure, positive means confirmed positive | 20:00 |
| LjL | the article discusses how South Korea made something more invasive, where people are given details about the positive people, details that can be enough to identify them exactly | 20:01 |
| dTal | I quite like this system | 20:01 |
| LjL | however, if you meet someone in bluetooth range and have an app that immediately queries the DB and sees they're flagged... well, you know something specific enough about that person too | 20:01 |
| dTal | it's hard for me to see how it can be exploited, unless the pseudorandom key rotation is compromised | 20:02 |
| dTal | well presumably that won't happen, because if they've been diagnosed they're in hospital | 20:02 |
| dTal | or not, hmmm | 20:02 |
| dTal | yes it's a different game if you're walking around with covid-19 and your keys are "blacklisted" in real time | 20:03 |
| dTal | but I guess people have a right to know | 20:03 |
| dTal | the big question is - can the unique, pseudorandom keys be predicted | 20:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:00 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: New York begins antibody testing, public anger growing in Spain over death count: Covid-19 has infected more than 2.4 million people around the world, killing at least 166,794 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 20:06 |
| Danger_Zone | course they can if your with the agency | 20:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:01 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus map of the US: latest cases state by state → https://is.gd/znq8yj | 20:13 |
| disillusion | https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/13/999313/kerala-fight-covid-19-india-coronavirus/ | 20:26 |
| ircnick | https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/16/trump-calabria-housing-189237 | 20:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:24 UTC: WHO says partisan politics and lack of global solidarity is fueling coronavirus pandemic: The World Health Organization's top official warned that countries seeking to politicize the Covid-19 pandemic are "playing with fire." → https://is.gd/3dqDvk | 20:28 |
| disillusion | If America is at war with covid-19, it’s doing a bad job of fighting https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/20/1000145/if-america-is-at-war-with-covid-19-doing-a-bad-job-of-fighting/?itm_source=parsely-api | 20:28 |
| oriba | FYI: https://github.com/DP-3T/documents/blob/master/Security%20analysis/PEPP-PT_%20Data%20Protection%20Architechture%20-%20Security%20and%20privacy%20analysis.pdf | 20:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:31 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: New York begins antibody testing, public anger growing in Spain over death count: Covid-19 has infected more than 2.4 million people around the world, killing at least 166,794 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 20:35 |
| mefistofeles | https://jami.net/ really interesting alternative to zoom, jitsi or similar | 20:39 |
| LjL | oriba, the article i posted translated from italian says DP-3T is the group that formed when PEPP-PT decided they would not *only* use a distributed/decentralized system | 20:40 |
| LjL | is that correct | 20:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 18:39 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: RAF plane en route to Turkey PPE amid row over NHS kit → https://is.gd/77sxSR | 20:42 |
| oriba | LjL: I read an article on that stuff (I found the github link there). It was mentioned: it started with two concepts: a decentralized and a centralized. After the german gouvernment decided to use the centralized concept (not by chance I think... I don't trust them...) the decentralized stuff has been removed. Later they said... it was by accident. One key figure insists on the centralized | 20:48 |
| oriba | approach. I think that has system... | 20:48 |
| oriba | https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/17/europes-pepp-pt-covid-19-contacts-tracing-standard-push-could-be-squaring-up-for-a-fight-with-apple-and-google/ | 20:48 |
| oriba | https://www.golem.de/news/pepp-pt-streit-beim-corona-app-projekt-2004-147925.html | 20:48 |
| oriba | https://www.zeit.de/digital/datenschutz/2020-04/corona-app-initiative-pepp-pt-datenschutz-warnung-forscher | 20:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:46 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: NY begins antibody testing, Senate pauses small business rescue discussions: Covid-19 has infected more than 2.4 million people around the world, killing at least 166,794 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 20:50 |
| oriba | LjL: will not be online for long today, so I have no time for discussion. I hope my links help a bit to get some information. | 20:50 |
| oriba | LjL: have a nice day. | 20:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:09 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Senate pauses small business rescue talks, California town to test every resident: Covid-19 has infected more than 2.4 million people around the world, killing at least 166,794 as of Monday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/IiPCxD | 21:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:12 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Cuomo says New York cases 'coming down' but states face 'quagmire' of test supply issues: Cuomo says New York case numbers suggest ‘descent’ Anti-lockdown protesters converge on Pennsylvania capitol Trump plays misleading clips of ‘support’ from Cuomo at briefing Live global updates → https://is.gd/x7FFn7 | 21:27 |
| Danger_Zone | https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/2-billion-phones-cannot-use-google-and-apple-contract-tracing-tech/ | 21:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:24 UTC: (news): Fear of coronavirus drives poison center calls up 20% as Americans go overboard on cleaning products, the CDC says → https://is.gd/QTyo8u | 21:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 19:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: RAF plane en route to Turkey amid row over NHS kit → https://is.gd/77sxSR | 21:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:48 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US oil market collapses into negative prices: Italy’s confirmed cases fall for first time; WHO says nothing was hidden from US; Spain proposes €1.5tn EU Covid-19 fund; US blocks pro-WHO statement by G20 → https://is.gd/Ar4F3H | 21:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 20:01 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA → https://is.gd/aLFDAC | 22:03 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Facebook Will Remove Content Organizing Protests Against Stay-at-Home Orders, Zuckerberg Says (10612 votes) | https://redd.it/g4wbpw | 22:15 |
| ircnick | tyranny! :P | 22:23 |
| genera | censory! | 22:25 |
| Danger_Zone | protest@home use facebook | 22:25 |
| ecov | https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/04/none-of-seven-proposed-corona-apps-meets-privacy-criteria-says-legal-advisor/ | 22:26 |
| ecov | you may not agree with the protesters but this is disturbing | 22:27 |
| genera | you re rite | 22:28 |
| ecov | this is only the first time theyre publicly announcing they'll be censoring | 22:29 |
| ecov | to think they havent done this in the past regarding other topics is pretty scary | 22:30 |
| ecov | have* | 22:30 |
| ryouma | you ... trust facebook? O.o | 22:32 |
| ryouma | it does not seem out of the ordinary for zuckerberg to me | 22:33 |
| danielp3344 | ^ | 22:33 |
| ecov | I said I trust facebook? | 22:33 |
| ryouma | it seems par for the course. and i act accordingly by not using facebook | 22:33 |
| danielp3344 | A protest had not occurred to me but hmmm | 22:33 |
| danielp3344 | maybe in a few weeks | 22:33 |
| ecov | or... you just make up an opinion, assign it someone, then feel superior about it? | 22:34 |
| ecov | odd.... | 22:34 |
| ecov | err | 22:34 |
| ecov | O.o | 22:34 |
| ryouma | um | 22:34 |
| ryouma | for you to be surprised surprises me | 22:34 |
| ryouma | is all | 22:34 |
| ecov | mine too | 22:35 |
| ryouma | ok never mind | 22:35 |
| danielp3344 | screw facebook | 22:35 |
| ryouma | my surprise was at your surprise | 22:35 |
| ecov | im confused who said they trust facebook | 22:36 |
| ryouma | perhaps i used the wrong word. no offense intended. | 22:37 |
| danielp3344 | ecov: I think he means you acted surprised which led him to think you had trusted them previously? | 22:37 |
| ryouma | at least not to do somethign like that | 22:38 |
| ecov | i havent had a facebook in... 10+ years | 22:38 |
| ryouma | in my acse doesn't surprise me int he leas that fb would do that | 22:38 |
| ryouma | but if i used th wrong word, nefer mind | 22:38 |
| ecov | the disturbing part is that people will continue to use facebook | 22:39 |
| bigfluff | it's crazy how many agencies, municipalities, etc. have taken to RELYING on facebook for community/communication stuff | 22:40 |
| ecov | IMO GOV should be open source | 22:40 |
| ryouma | there is also this seeming propaganda campaign: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/08/06/beware-tech-abandoners-people-without-facebook-accounts-are-suspicious/ https://business.time.com/2012/08/08/does-not-having-a-facebook-page-make-you-suspicious-to-employers/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/unique-everybody-else/201209/is-there-something-wrong-people-who-dont-use-facebook it seems quite a lot | 22:42 |
| ryouma | of articles on the topic that those who do not use fb are suspicious | 22:42 |
| ryouma | what started THAT one idk | 22:43 |
| danielp3344 | Heh, try not having a PSTN number | 22:46 |
| danielp3344 | that's even more fun | 22:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 20:39 UTC: /u/slakmehl: US anti-lockdown rallies could cause surge in Covid-19 cases, experts warn | US news | The Guardian → https://is.gd/HIJSgd | 22:46 |
| ecov | this is the "organic" version of china's social equity system | 22:46 |
| ecov | how many people are showing up to these "rallies"? | 22:48 |
| ecov | are they relying on camera angles to make it seem worse than it is? they usually do | 22:48 |
| ryouma | can autistics do ok in china's social credit system? | 22:48 |
| ecov | immigrate and find out, ryouma | 22:49 |
| Danger_Zone | people trolling fb are suspicious | 22:49 |
| ryouma | this is a bit much --- 13:34 <ecov> or... you just make up an opinion, assign it someone, then feel superior about it? | 22:49 |
| ryouma | why should i emigrate to china to find out the answer to a question? | 22:49 |
| ecov | ryouma: I was replying to this "[13:32] <ryouma> you ... trust facebook? O.o" | 22:50 |
| ryouma | yes, we know | 22:50 |
| ecov | who is "we" who else are you speaking for | 22:50 |
| ecov | lmao | 22:50 |
| Danger_Zone | me | 22:51 |
| Danger_Zone | why? | 22:51 |
| ecov | I'm still unsure where I said I trusted facebook :) | 22:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 20:48 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Nate Silver su Twitter: "US daily numbers via @COVID19Tracking: Newly-reported deaths: Today: 1,528 Yesterday: 1,654 One week ago (4/13): 1,450 Newly-reported cases: T: 23K Y: 27K 4/13: 25K Newly-reported tests: T: 138K Y: 167K 4/13: 129K Share of tests positive: T: 17% Y: 16% 4/13: 19%" → https://is.gd/Ynb9t3 | 22:54 |
| ecov | Danger_Zone: how would ryouma fare in China? | 22:54 |
| disillusion | https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/04/20/poll-michiganians-favor-whitmer-covid-19-handling-over-trump/5164340002/ | 22:55 |
| disillusion | "A survey of 600 Michiganians found 57% approved of the Democratic governor's handling of the COVID-19 pandemic compared with 37% of respondents who disapproved." | 22:55 |
| Danger_Zone | all my facebook family come from here https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/beautiful-people?mediatype=photography&phrase=beautiful%20people&sort=mostpopular | 22:56 |
| disillusion | "By contrast, 44% of those polled approved of Trump's handling of the COVID-19 crisis while 50% disapproved. " | 22:56 |
| ecov | i love polls | 22:56 |
| Danger_Zone | especially poll reposts | 22:57 |
| ecov | https://politics.theonion.com/poll-shows-support-for-impeachment-weakest-among-uncont-1839513857 | 22:58 |
| Danger_Zone | alt right BS | 23:00 |
| ircnick | maybe the 10,000 dead? | 23:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 20:55 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: A Domani → https://is.gd/9Wdphj | 23:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 21:11 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: 59:21 Perspectives on the Pandemic | Dr. David L. Katz | Episode 3 YouTube · Journeyman Pictures 6 days ago → https://is.gd/aEpF9D | 23:15 |
| ryouma | fwiw in case not posted yet there is some analysis of the protests, dunno anything more about it https://www.reddit.com/r/MassMove/comments/g3toiz/a_post_by_udr_midnight_collating_information_on/fnv8j69/ | 23:18 |
| JamGobbar | heres my analysis: https://i.redd.it/u84ftgp2qxt41.jpg | 23:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:18 UTC: /u/slakmehl: NBC Politics su Twitter: "NEW: Georgia Gov. Kemp announces the first phase of reopening businesses will begin on April 24. https://t.co/QgGJN7BNXg" → https://is.gd/ye8n41 | 23:22 |
| ecov | interesting find ryouma "astroturfing" is right.... theres like 50 people at these things | 23:22 |
| Danger_Zone | but they carry at least 3 guns each | 23:24 |
| ecov | theyre clearly not very intelligent | 23:25 |
| Danger_Zone | but they are smart | 23:25 |
| ecov | agent provocateurs! | 23:26 |
| Danger_Zone | Canadians? | 23:27 |
| ryouma | can't the protesters find a nice bird sanctuary to take over? and barricade themselves for, oh, say, 2 weeks, just to pick a number out of a hat? | 23:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:27 UTC: (news): Coronavirus antibody testing shows LA County outbreak is up to 55 times bigger than reported cases → https://is.gd/LzlYUn | 23:29 |
| Danger_Zone | they have used up all of the alcohol supplies | 23:31 |
| Danger_Zone | need refills | 23:31 |
| ryouma | (for those who have no idea waht i just referred to, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge https://www.salon.com/2016/01/04/theyre_traitors_lets_call_the_oregon_standoff_what_it_really_is_domestic_terrorism/) | 23:32 |
| ryouma | (note: i just found the links from the top entries on a search and did not read them, only seeking to make it convenient to get the general idea of what i was joking about) | 23:33 |
| mefistofeles | "The drug literature, the biochemistry literature, the medical literature are full of quicksand and crocodiles" nice way to put it | 23:35 |
| Danger_Zone | isnt the use of drones approved for armed civilians? | 23:35 |
| mefistofeles | :) | 23:35 |
| ircnick | can't 'trust' wikipedia btw | 23:36 |
| mefistofeles | just check the sources, as any encyclopedia | 23:37 |
| mefistofeles | if anything, wikipedia is the best one of those, by far | 23:37 |
| ircnick | overall, the control over who edits and writes the entries isn't trustworthy | 23:40 |
| ecov | ircnick: the sourced citations are useful | 23:40 |
| Danger_Zone | why cant people just drive around inside cars? it should be virus safe | 23:42 |
| Danger_Zone | also oil is dirty cheap | 23:42 |
| ircnick | well there is editing to what appears in the sources | 23:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:36 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Virgin expected to go into administration as national cabinet to discuss surgery – latest updates → https://is.gd/gKNEub | 23:44 |
| Danger_Zone | wtf wikipedia go to do with covid? | 23:44 |
| Danger_Zone | take it to ##wikipedia-deniers | 23:45 |
| ircnick | Danger_Zone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDPrpKDjQ5U | 23:45 |
| Danger_Zone | fuck this RT bs | 23:47 |
| Danger_Zone | russia trols | 23:47 |
| LjL | ircnick, so check the actual sources | 23:51 |
| mefistofeles | Danger_Zone: hey, calm down | 23:51 |
| LjL | if you want to view Wikipedia as basically a collection of sources with an admittedly likely-to-contain-errors summary of what they say about a topic, and of course, collecting them around a topic... well, that's basically what it is | 23:52 |
| ryouma | its credibility varies | 23:52 |
| ryouma | imo | 23:52 |
| LjL | its credibility when it doesn't cite sources is certainly lower than when it does, but when it does, you are still kind of supposed to check the source if you're doing any actual research, rather than just curiosity-skimming | 23:53 |
| mefistofeles | actually, for covid, there are many data teams gathering data from wikipedia and wikipedia's sources. The specific regional articles are really helpful on summarizing data (sometimes), and the sources are just one click ahead so you can validate the data quickly | 23:53 |
| bin_bash | even when it cites sources, often those sources no longer exist or are behind paywalls so it can be difficult to verify | 23:53 |
| bin_bash | and nobody ever really bothers verifiying | 23:53 |
| mefistofeles | covidly uses this, btw | 23:53 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, Google's COVID tracker uses Wikipedia as its source | 23:53 |
| ryouma | yeah the sources are key. and sometimes you have to spend a long time doing so. and seek out sources not cited. | 23:53 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: ah interesting | 23:54 |
| mefistofeles | bin_bash: yes, that's why the "better" practice is to use the web archive or something, to avoid the sources dying out | 23:54 |
| ryouma | (fyi, i was not supplying wp as a credible, or non-credible, source, nor supplying an opinion as to its credibility on any given topic at the time. to do a thorough analysis of its credibiilty on the topic of a BIRD SANCTUARY TAKEOVER for the sake of acclimatizing those not familiar with it, such as non-us-residents, given the diversity of nationalities on this channel, for a JOKE would have been juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu | 23:54 |
| ryouma | uuuuust a bit overkill. :) (not having good luck on this channel today.)) | 23:54 |
| LjL | bin_bash, well, that's not exactly Wikipedia's fault, though, is it? Wikipedians go to some great lengths to try to archive citations so they can remain available, but sometimes, that's just not compatible with copyright and they get removed anyway, or as you say, they are paywalled. Wikipedia gives you something for free, which is based on quite some sweat of its contributors. however it cannot give you for free the exact things others have made paid. | 23:55 |
| bin_bash | mefistofeles: yep | 23:55 |
| ecov | ryouma: if everyone else smells like shit, check your shoe | 23:55 |
| bin_bash | LjL: it kind of is, yes, because wikipedia moderators dont hunt down and verify the sources | 23:55 |
| LjL | what is a wikipedia moderator? there is not such thing | 23:55 |
| mefistofeles | sadly not every site is "snapshotable" via the web archive, and many of them do it in purpose | 23:55 |
| mefistofeles | on* | 23:55 |
| bin_bash | LjL: what? | 23:56 |
| bin_bash | do they use a different name now | 23:56 |
| bin_bash | ah administrators | 23:56 |
| LjL | bin_bash, there are administrators, where the difference is quite deeply semantic, as they are not, at least ideally, meant to moderate content. | 23:56 |
| bin_bash | not moderators my b | 23:56 |
| bin_bash | also there different user levels | 23:57 |
| LjL | it is not their job or purpose to "hunt down sources", but it IS their job to stop someone from, say, willfully removing a source when it's present, or conversely, reinstating a claim even though it was removed because it had no source | 23:57 |
| LjL | the job to hunt down sources is yours and mibne. | 23:57 |
| bin_bash | LjL: hence why it's not a reliable source | 23:58 |
| bin_bash | that's my entire point | 23:58 |
| LjL | it is not meant to be | 23:59 |
| bin_bash | i know | 23:59 |
| bin_bash | but people treat it like it is | 23:59 |
| LjL | it is meant to POINT to reliable sources, which was my point before already | 23:59 |
| LjL | well that's on people | 23:59 |
| LjL | not on wikipedia | 23:59 |
| bin_bash | sometimes it does, soemtimes it doesnt | 23:59 |
| LjL | i am a wikipedia editor, or at least i was for periods of time, and i have contributed a fair bit | 23:59 |
| mefistofeles | bin_bash: I mean, people don't even bother with wikipedia, if you want to go taht way | 23:59 |
| mefistofeles | they stick with twitter or facebook | 23:59 |
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