libera/##covid-19/ Friday, 2020-04-24

Arsaneritgoodnight00:02
Arsaneritlivebrain: it certainly affects poor people working at airports...00:03
Arsaneritgoodnight00:03
livebrainit also affects low paying jobs in the service industry that relies on "instagram tourism" 00:05
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 22:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: California reports 'deadliest day' yet, global lockdowns ease → https://is.gd/HOjjL900:05
ytlyv8 https://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/degrees.php00:14
ytlyv8https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_temperature00:15
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 22:09 UTC: Hopes dashed as coronavirus drug remdesivir fails first trial: There had been hope that remdesivir could treat Covid-19, but its first study proved unsuccessful. → https://is.gd/6fFcJf00:20
BrainstormUpdates for US: +1516 cases (now 877672), +88 deaths (now 49736) since an hour ago — Sao Paulo, Brazil: +826 cases (now 16740), +211 deaths (now 1345) since 20 hours ago — Florida, US: +816 cases (now 29648) since 6 hours ago00:23
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 22:28 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: California reports 'deadliest day' yet, global lockdowns ease → https://is.gd/HOjjL900:34
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 22:36 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Nate Silver su Twitter: "US daily numbers via @COVID19Tracking: Newly-reported deaths: Today: 1,911 Yesterday: 2,108 One week ago (4/17): 2,136 Newly-reported cases: T: 32K Y: 27K 4/17: 31K Newly-reported tests: T: 193K Y: 311K 4/17: 158K Share of positive tests: T: 17% Y: 9% 4/17: 19%" → https://is.gd/Z0A1CN00:42
mefistofeleshope this channel "dying" means the virus is as well :P haha00:44
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 22:43 UTC: (news): US airlines are losing money for the first time in years as coronavirus ends travel boom → https://is.gd/ALnCx600:49
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +1345 cases (now 153129), +171 deaths (now 5575) since 3 hours ago — US: +736 cases (now 878408) since 33 minutes ago — Nebraska, US: +311 cases (now 2124) since 9 hours ago00:53
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 22:52 UTC: Vice President Mike Pence says 16 states have released plans to lift coronavirus restrictions: The administration is now also calling on states to resume elective surgeries, which were largely suspended as health systems sought to boost capacity for an expected surge of Covid-19 patients, Pence announced. → https://is.gd/11LPvt00:56
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 23:02 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Ultimo aggiornamento per la sera → https://is.gd/ZGvohb01:03
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 23:14 UTC: Australia coronavirus update latest: NSW to open testing to anyone with symptoms – live news: The national toll from Covid-19 has risen to 75 following the death of a fourth resident at a western Sydney nursing home. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO01:18
minitruelol, 01:23
python476nice nick minitrue 01:23
PlanckWalkMy area (in Australia) is open to testing for anyone with symptoms, but the Prime Minister and CMO each slandered people who tested positive, so a prevailing opinion is "fuck em, I'll just self isolate if I have COVID"01:31
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 23:25 UTC: (news): US airlines are losing money for the first time in years as coronavirus ends travel boom → https://is.gd/ALnCx601:33
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 23:29 UTC: Australia coronavirus update latest: NSW to open testing to anyone with symptoms – live news: The national toll from Covid-19 has risen to 75 following the death of a fourth resident at a western Sydney nursing home. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO01:40
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 23:41 UTC: Vice President Mike Pence says 16 states have unveiled plans to lift coronavirus restrictions: The administration is now also calling on states to resume elective surgeries, which were largely suspended as health systems sought to boost capacity for an expected surge of Covid-19 patients, Pence announced. → https://is.gd/11LPvt01:47
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 23:41 UTC: Australia coronavirus update latest: NSW to open testing to anyone with symptoms – live news: The national toll from Covid-19 has risen to 75 following the death of a fourth resident at a western Sydney nursing home. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO01:55
BrainstormUpdates for US: +1022 cases (now 879430) since an hour ago — Texas, US: +449 cases (now 22393) since 7 hours ago — Georgia (US), US: +371 cases (now 21883) since 7 hours ago02:09
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 23:59 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: US House passes $484bn coronavirus relief bill to fund small businesses and hospitals → https://is.gd/2KI1ad02:09
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 00:19 UTC: HHS official plans to file whistleblower complaint over coronavirus drug pressure related to Trump and ouster: Rick Bright claims he was dismissed from leading a federal agency dealing with the coronavirus outbreak after resisting pressure to expand the use of drugs promoted by President Donald Trump. → https://is.gd/9QE5M802:24
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 00:22 UTC: Global COVID Cases For 24APR20:  (w/Update UTC in Flair) | Source: Wikipedia | Larger Version | Notes || | Day to Day | Update Figures | Up + Down _ || → https://is.gd/c4tYS402:31
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 00:29 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Trump says federal distancing guidelines could extend into summer → https://is.gd/WAJowZ02:38
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 00:44 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update latest: national death toll rises to 77 – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO02:53
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 01:01 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 40 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV03:07
BrainstormUpdates for Mexico: +1089 cases (now 11633), +99 deaths (now 1069) since 12 hours ago — US: +774 cases (now 880204), +76 deaths (now 49845) since an hour ago — Japan: +418 cases (now 12368) since 12 hours ago03:09
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 01:13 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update latest: national death toll rises to 77 – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO03:22
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 01:26 UTC: ljl-covid: Add prepring on mask decontamination and reuse → https://is.gd/pebx7T03:29
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: California Gov. Newsom Signs Executive Order To Prevent Stimulus Money From Being Taken By Debt Collectors (10069 votes) | https://redd.it/g6trzk03:31
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 01:40 UTC: ljl-covid: Add covid19india.org, most likely the best tracker for India → https://is.gd/I6oQ1703:44
LjL"Suppose that we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light," Trump said from the White House podium. "Suppose you can bring the light inside the body, either through the skin or in some other way."03:57
LjL"Is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning?" Trump asked his experts at the briefing. "It sounds interesting to me, so we'll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That's pretty powerful."03:57
LjLsource: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-wants-bring-light-inside-the-body-to-kill-coronavirus-2020-4 or https://deadline.com/2020/04/coronavirus-donald-trump-briefing-washington-post-1202916609/ for a slightly different transcription03:58
LjLcomments itself i suppose03:58
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 01:50 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 40 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV03:58
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 02:08 UTC: ljl-covid: Consolidate Italy links → https://is.gd/n5ep9T04:13
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 02:18 UTC: Add yet another tracker, probably spinoff of Covid19India: This one doesn't have subnational data but it indicates amount of serious patients for most countries, which isn't found in many other trackers → https://is.gd/zj6Uy104:20
pynadonald jong trump04:25
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 02:18 UTC: Australia coronavirus update latest: national death toll rises to 78 – live news: WA authorities report cruise ship passenger becomes 8th person to die in that state, as NSW opens Covid-19 testing to anyone with symptoms. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO04:28
pynatrump's gonna bring the light into a bunch of bodies when he presses the button04:31
LjLtinwhiskers, was it with you that i was semi-jokingly suggesting mass exhumations to estimate original R0? https://www.businessinsider.com/california-gov-newsom-orders-covid-19-autopsies-back-to-december-2020-4?IR=T04:33
tinwhiskersActually it was you who suggested it but I was there04:33
tinwhiskersPerhaps someone had suggested it to you earlier, but no I didn't suggest it.04:34
LjLtinwhiskers, i said "i was semi-jokingly suggesting"04:34
tinwhiskersOh, yes. Sorry misread. Yes04:35
tinwhiskersGood call :-)04:35
LjLshould be interesting. i think in Italy doctors are reviewing some December cases but not really suggesting to actually perform autopsies04:36
LjL(probably a bit too busy for that still)04:36
ytlyv8vote for trump or no cure lol04:36
ytlyv8lol04:36
LjLuhm04:36
pynalol the utter hackjob of this sf future04:38
pynathere are dan brown books more plausible than this04:39
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews at 02:20 UTC: worldnews: Trump directs experts to see whether they can 'bring light inside the body' to kill the coronavirus, even as his own expert shuts him down → https://is.gd/B333Xr04:42
izlol, he also suggested that maybe we could inject bleach or alcohol inside people to help kill the virus04:44
izsaid the medical ppl would have to check that out, but it sounds like a good idea to him04:44
izhttps://youtu.be/QtgVxGkrX1Y?t=12604:46
friedbathttps://arxiv.org/abs/2003.1244404:49
LjLiz, do you think we are to effect some more people killing themselves with, say, UV light this time? just like some did with chloroquine next time Trump "had an idea"?04:49
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 02:44 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 40 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV04:49
LjLthis seem... lower quality that other preprints i've read recently04:52
izhopefully not04:57
iz(from the country that had a tide pod eating meme)04:58
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 03:05 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update latest: Australia coronavirus latest: Scott Morrison to provide update after national cabinet meeting – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO05:11
ragerIs Europe a continent? I think not.05:13
LjLit is traditionally considered one, but geologically that doesn't make a lot of sense05:14
LjLwhy does it matter, anyway?05:14
BrainstormUpdates for US: +6505 cases (now 886709), +398 deaths (now 50243) since 2 hours ago — Brazil: +544 cases (now 50036) since 6 hours ago — Guayas, Ecuador: +394 cases (now 7502) since 2 days ago05:20
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 03:20 UTC: Australia coronavirus latest: Scott Morrison provides update after national cabinet meeting – live news: WA authorities report cruise ship passenger becomes eighth person to die in that state, as NSW opens Covid-19 testing to anyone with symptoms. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO05:33
berndjare there any diseases known to be transmitted by people simply breathing normally?05:37
JamGobbarpolitics05:37
pynalife05:37
LjLthis is what some doctors think of Trump's musings on what could be effective https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/trump-coronavirus-treatment-disinfectant05:38
LjLberndj, sure05:38
pynathere needs to be a mouthbreather joke but im not up to the challenge05:38
LjLberndj, anything that mentions "respiratory droplets" basically includes normal breathing. i'll take the easy ball and say measles.05:39
friedbatberndj: it's believed that covid-19 is transmitted in normal exhalation droplets (that's why asymptomatic people are spreading)05:39
friedbatother diseases include tuberculosis05:39
friedbatthere are many05:39
pynaanyone thinking of trump in any situation has already lost the game05:40
berndjLjL, oh? i thought you needed to cough or sneeze or speak or something to make respiratory droplets come out of your orifices05:40
berndjfriedbat, i don't buy the "that's why" part, not at face value anyway05:40
LjL"A respiratory droplet is a particle consisting mostly of water that is large enough to fall to the ground rapidly after being produced, often defined as having a diameter greater than 5 μm. Respiratory droplets can be produced naturally as a result of breathing, talking, sneezing, coughing, or vomiting, or can be artificially generated through aerosol-generating medical procedures, flushing toilets, or other domestic activities. "05:40
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 03:35 UTC: ljl-covid: Add "opinion" paper on airborne transmissibility → https://is.gd/kgJnFk05:41
berndji feel like one would have to exhale pretty hard to be expelling droplets??05:41
friedbatberndj: they've measured respiratory droplets in normal exhalations, when speaking, when coughing, etc. 05:41
berndjfriedbat, yeah, i specifically want to exclude the more violent expulsions of air05:42
friedbatlike i said, they've looked at the entire spectrum05:42
LjLi don't feel like that. i'd tentatively feel like they would *spread further* by breathing "violently" or by other "violent" actions such as coughing.05:42
berndjnot interested in speaking/singing/coughing/sneezing05:42
berndjLjL, fair enough, nothing is a binary05:43
friedbatalso i imagine even "normal breathing" has a spectrum. someone who has copd and breathes heavily might exhale more droplets than someone who has great lungs.05:43
friedbatsomeone who just walked up 3 flights of steps might be exhaling more droplets than someone idling in a chair05:44
berndjgood call. any turbulence = opportunity for droplets to come off05:44
berndjnext stage of the question: mouth vs nose breathing05:45
friedbatmouth probably a lot more05:45
friedbatbut i have no science, just educated guessing.05:46
berndjdepends how congested your nose is at the time?05:46
berndjand where are these plain-breathing droplets generated? throat? lungs? (how deep in the lungs?)05:47
friedbati'm sure there's a lot of research on this. i forget where i saw some study on exhalation droplets. maybe mit?05:47
friedbatthanks for the question, it's interesting. certainly more interesting than "orange man bad"05:47
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 03:35 UTC: Australia coronavirus latest: Scott Morrison provides update after national cabinet meeting – live news: WA authorities report cruise ship passenger becomes eighth person to die in that state, as NSW opens Covid-19 testing to anyone with symptoms. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO05:48
berndji was wondering about similar issues in the opposite direction a few weeks ago. whether mouth-breathers or nose-breathers fared better05:49
berndji.e. does breathing habit change whether, or how severely *you* get infected05:50
friedbatberndj: here's an interesting paper on this05:53
friedbathttps://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/jam.1997.10.10505:53
friedbatthey compare mouth breathing, nose breathing, coughing, and talking05:54
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 03:49 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 43 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV05:55
berndjjournal of aerosol medicine - wow, some specialized journal06:00
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 03:52 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO06:02
minitruehttps://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/23/pers-a23.html06:18
berndjugh, more mindreading06:19
berndjfriedbat, yeah, thanks for the doi, interesting (and scary!) reading06:20
friedbatwelcome06:27
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Trump suggests 'injection' of disinfectant to beat coronavirus and 'clean' the lungs (10654 votes) | https://redd.it/g6xpii06:38
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 04:45 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 43 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV06:53
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 04:48 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO07:08
pynacoronawalrus is just terrible07:11
pynahas trump halted emigration yet07:13
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 04:59 UTC: 'We knew that the foreign workers would be a stress point:' Singapore diplomat on battling coronavirus: On April 1, Singapore had just around 1,000 cases, but in less than a month, it has spiked to more than 10,000. The majority of the explosion in cases has been attributed to its migrant worker population. → https://is.gd/ErvMgL07:15
manjaroi3You guys realize the infection rate is waaay lower than influenza and pnwumonia right?07:16
pynado not want coronawalrus07:17
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 05:08 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO07:23
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 05:29 UTC: (news): 'It won't be the same': Italy's small stores reopen after virus lockdown, but life has changed → https://is.gd/ZJJZfw07:37
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 05:40 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr07:44
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 06:00 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO08:06
Butterfly^https://twitter.com/Daniel_Lewis3/status/1253482576699969537  Here is Dr. Birx's reaction when President Trump asks his science advisor to study using UV light on the human body and injecting disinfectant to fight the coronavirus.08:13
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 06:06 UTC: 'We knew that the foreign workers would be a stress point:' Singapore diplomat on battling coronavirus: On April 1, Singapore had just around 1,000 cases, but in less than a month, it has spiked to more than 10,000. The majority of the explosion in cases has been attributed to its migrant worker population. → https://is.gd/ErvMgL08:14
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 06:12 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO08:21
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 06:25 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr08:28
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 06:39 UTC: China 'owes us': Growing outrage over Beijing's handling of the coronavirus pandemic: A growing chorus of voices around the world is calling for China to compensate for the damages incurred due to the global coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/q8T9RK08:43
mefistofelesButterfly^: I really canot believe that ... amazing08:45
mefistofeleshow they can stay there and not say anything :/08:45
Butterfly^i watched it over 10x in a row, i kept shaking my head in disbelieve, and i'm still shaking my head in disbelieve08:46
mefistofeles:/08:47
Butterfly^if he gets elected again, whatever little respect the world still has for america, will sink to new lows, even a donkey never trips over the same stone twice08:48
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 06:45 UTC: Eurozone crisis: UK retail sales tumble amid Covid-19 lockdown, but alcohol demand soars - business live → https://is.gd/jhzPim08:50
Butterfly^https://i.imgur.com/kEEDG1u.png08:52
mefistofelesButterfly^: I'm going to really need a better source on that video, tbh... do you have any?08:56
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 06:54 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 43 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV08:57
mefistofelesButterfly^: nvm, easy to find... unbelievable!!08:57
Butterfly^there's a source in the image, cnn08:57
Butterfly^i bet a google search will give more sources08:58
Butterfly^thing is, it's fact that we still know little about what exactly this virus can do to us all08:59
Butterfly^it can take years to truly know the longterm effects of this virus, even people who get survive it (after coma in ICU on a ventilator, or at home with an extreme fever), could have permanent or longterm damage that we don't know about yet09:00
Butterfly^it's the reason why clinical trials normally last for several years, and even then, they keep following up for 20-30 years to come sometimes09:01
Butterfly^my dad had a new type of surgery 20 years ago, he's still called in yearly for a checkup, as part of clinical trial follow up 09:01
mefistofeleswe know a lot09:02
mefistofelesbut yes, still a lot missing09:02
Butterfly^we know jack shit about long term effects09:02
mefistofelesButterfly^: true09:02
Butterfly^i read an article that it can take 15-20 years for the lungs to truly repair from corona09:02
Butterfly^of course, that's not science, as it hasn't been this long, but it is a possibility09:03
mefistofelesthis is not something exclusive for this virus09:03
Butterfly^true09:03
mefistofelesany kind of severe damage on tissues has long term effects, this is known... now, what exactly the effects are for this virus it's not known exactly, but still a lot can be said comparing it to other similar diseases09:04
mefistofelesmany doctors are comparing it to high altitude pulmonary edemea, for example09:05
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 06:59 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr09:05
mefistofelesso there's no real reason to believe that the long term effects can be anything but, actually, they should be close to the ones for similar diseases09:06
mefistofelesnow, that said, I do think that many of the long term for most of these other diseases are actually not really known... because only now we are concerned about this, since a significantly large part of the population is getting it09:06
Butterfly^they say kids don't get symptoms, or very light symptoms, yet, we have had kids of all ages die, 1 month old, 5 month old, 2 years old, 5 years old, ...09:07
mefistofelesButterfly^: that has never been said in an absolute way09:07
Butterfly^the thing with younger kids is, we usually haven't found out yet if they have any underlying medical conditions like a heart issue, lung issue, kidneys, ... who knows what09:07
mefistofelesthere's a chance, a really small one, that young people die from this.... and of course if many yung people get infected, the corresponding part would die... and in absolute numbers it could be hundreds of cases09:07
mefistofelesI think the mortality there is 0.1% or something like that (depending on the actual age group)09:08
Butterfly^my sister's 2 kids are under 2 years old, youngest is 8 months old, who knows what longterm effect it could have, or how it would impact their development the next 20 years09:08
mefistofelesButterfly^: stil, that doesn't mean anything is possible... again, things can be inferred from similar and more studied diseases09:09
mefistofelesthe problem is that the exact consequences are in general hard to know, not only for this virus09:09
Butterfly^it'll take years to really know enough about covid 09:10
Butterfly^but every week, every month, we learn more09:10
mefistofelesButterfly^: probably, as with any other diseases09:10
mefistofelesalso, we probably know more now from covid than other virus, tbh09:11
Butterfly^right, messed up part i that so many countries want to reopen the country like tomorrow09:11
mefistofelesButterfly^: well, there are already meny countries reopening09:11
Butterfly^imagine being in the middle of WWII, and for 2 minutes, nobody has heard any bullets, would you just start casually dancing around walking through the battle field?09:11
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 07:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Airlines are in 'survival mode,' passenger revenues set for steep drop, IATA says → https://is.gd/qc1XcV09:12
Butterfly^that's how it feels like to me when i hear countries wanting to reopen the country while corona is still spreading like madness09:12
mefistofelesstill, as antibodies test have suggested the cases are really mch much more than the confirmed ones, for NY it has been estimated that 20% of the population has been infected09:12
mefistofelesthat's 4million people just in NY09:12
Butterfly^in Belgium, the antibody tests say 3% of Belgium was infected09:13
Butterfly^Belgium has the highest deathrate / million according to the statistics09:13
mefistofelesGermany in this small town, also similar numbers, with 15%, if I recall correctly09:13
Butterfly^https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/19/why-is-belgiums-death-toll-so-high-19577809:13
mefistofelesand they are performing a bigger scale now09:13
Butterfly^we count way more people as corona deaths09:13
Butterfly^even without them being tested09:14
mefistofelesButterfly^: exactly, so they are all consistent09:14
Butterfly^2/3 of our deaths happen in retirement homes09:14
Butterfly^some retirementhomes have seen a DROP in deaths compared to last year, yet, this year, nearly all of them are counted as corona09:14
mefistofelesand they all really point that enforcing the hard lockdown is actually kinda silly, since it would still be spreading since so many people has had it already09:14
Butterfly^the article i just posted is an interesting read09:14
mefistofelesand also it means that the virus isnñ t as bad as we thought09:14
mefistofelesisn't*09:15
Butterfly^the biggest reason for the lockdown is to keep hospitals within capacity09:15
mefistofelesregardless of all these specific but really small number of cases with special pathologies09:15
Butterfly^if hospitals are over capacities, deaths start rising like madness, not just corona deaths, ALL deaths09:15
mefistofelesyes09:15
mefistofelesbut the death spiking corresponds to a previous spike in infections that has already passed09:16
mefistofeleseven much sooner than data shows, from these antibodies tests09:16
Butterfly^since we've seen a reduction in hospital bed usage for 10 days now, and are now at about 40% of ICU beds in use, we're slowly opening up some businesses, but with strict regulations, social distancing, and way more cleaning09:16
Butterfly^but this could be reversed in 2 weeks if we're getting close to reaching hospital peaks again09:16
mefistofelesButterfly^: we would have to see, the infection rate for some countries was already trending down before the lockdown measures and it didn't show an acceleration of the "slowdown" when the measures were taking place09:18
Butterfly^if we hadn't gone on lockdown when we did, even if had waited one more week, we would've reached hospital capacity, and deathrates would've been quite a bit higher09:18
Butterfly^there's many different strains of coronavirus around09:18
Butterfly^slighty mutations09:19
mefistofelesyes, but they are not present in every countrie09:19
Butterfly^Belgium is a tiny country, we've got quite a mix going on here09:19
mefistofelescountry*09:19
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 07:10 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr09:19
mefistofelesthe worst part on that regard s on latin america and africa, and now going back to asia again09:19
Butterfly^Italy's strain is different than France's strain, which is different than Germany's strain, which is different than Netherlands strain, which is different than UK strain, Belgium, has like a combination of all those09:19
mefistofelesthey have strains from all over the spectrum09:20
mefistofelesButterfly^: it's not as bad for belgium, check the nextstrain.org results09:20
Butterfly^according to death toll numbers / million, Belgium is the worst country in the world09:21
mefistofelesnow, you can indeed get infected by more than one strain, and that's been already happening09:21
Butterfly^of course, we report very differently09:21
Butterfly^didn't know that site yet, thanks, will have a look09:22
Butterfly^Belgium is everywhere09:25
Butterfly^unrooted layout is interesting09:25
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 07:13 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO09:26
Butterfly^oh boy, it came from China directly to Belgium first09:27
Butterfly^before it was even getting big in China09:27
mefistofelesButterfly^: the same for most countries, yes09:32
mefistofelesButterfly^: there have been already reported cases in the USA as of early January09:32
Butterfly^yeah i know09:32
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 07:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Airlines are in 'survival mode,' passenger revenues set for steep drop, IATA says → https://is.gd/qc1XcV09:34
l0ndonerArchitect of Sweden's approach says it has worked09:37
mefistofelesl0ndoner: it worked for everyone :P09:43
mefistofelesvirtually every european country had the virus much more sooner than expected, and it spiked before any lockdown measures wee taking place09:43
l0ndonerNordic statistic do tell a diffrent story09:43
mefistofeleswell, of the big hit, that is09:43
BrainstormUpdates for Russia: +5849 cases (now 68622), +60 deaths (now 615) since 18 hours ago — Quebec, Canada: +873 cases (now 21838), +109 deaths (now 1243) since a day ago — Ukraine: +477 cases (now 7647) since 18 hours ago09:52
Butterfly^https://i.imgur.com/IcYFaRQ.jpg10:00
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 08:16 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Buongiorno a tutti, mentre eravate via → https://is.gd/lyJQB410:17
PlanckWalkl0ndoner: Yes, it worked: it infect more people causing more deaths sooner than comparable countries.10:19
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 08:19 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Economia → https://is.gd/XAe1To10:25
mefistofelesPlanckWalk: that's not true, if you see the Sweden path is still better than that of SPain, UK, France or Italy and similar to that of Germany... for the reported deaths10:25
mefistofelesfor the confirmed cases it's similar to that of Japan, and they both are below the trajectory of others but still not showing a consistent slowdown10:26
mefistofeleswhich again, ma suggest that regardless of the type of measures taken the outcome is similar, consistent with the idea of the infection really spiking up much sooner than what data from tests show10:28
mefistofelesso more similar to the data from antibodies tests10:28
mefistofeless/ma/may10:28
PlanckWalkEh, most of those European countries took actions far later in terms of deaths/million10:29
PlanckWalkSo yes, Sweden's approach is better than doign nothing10:30
mefistofelesyes, also the deaths aren't really avoided by strict lockdown measures10:31
mefistofelesmost commonly just delayed... 10:31
PlanckWalkLockdowns don't affect deaths at all until about 3-4 weeks later10:31
PlanckWalkLockdowns limit new infections, most deaths occur 3+ weeks after infection.10:32
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 08:23 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr10:32
mefistofelesspecially if you go for an early supression, like some of latin americans countries are... delaying the deaths as much as possible, to get prepared as much as possible10:34
mefistofelesPlanckWalk: mostly the effect is delaying the infections, nto avoiding or absolutely supressing them10:36
mefistofelesthe change in numbers is estimated to be 1% for most models I've seen, so not really significant10:37
mefistofelesnow, if you manage to delay them long enough until you get some really good treatment or vaccine, then you do avoid a lot of deaths, but that's not an option for most10:38
PlanckWalkRight, that's what Australia is doing10:41
PlanckWalkDrive down the infection rate to the point where test+trace+isolate can contain it10:42
mefistofelesPlanckWalk: I think Korea as well10:42
PlanckWalkTrouble is that we don't know whether it's working, and won't for some weeks yet10:43
mefistofelesyes, specially from the data of these antibodies tests that suggest this thing has been spreading much sooner10:43
mefistofelesweeks sooner10:43
PlanckWalkEh, I've always thought (based on deaths) that it was spreading weeks sooner10:44
mefistofeleseven sooner than that xD10:44
mefistofelesI mean, for the US there is data suggesting it was spreading in the community already since early January10:44
mefistofeleswhen this thing wasn't even "exploding" in China... in terms of confirmed cases10:45
PlanckWalkYes, that's about the timescale I've been looking at.  There were reports of excess pneumonia deaths in early March10:45
PlanckWalkWhich would imply significant spread by mid Feb, building up from January10:46
mefistofelesPlanckWalk: do you have a source on that?10:46
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 08:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Airlines are in 'survival mode,' passenger revenues set for steep drop, IATA says → https://is.gd/qc1XcV10:46
PlanckWalkNot a handy URL, but it was discussed in various forums that CDC data was trending unexpectedly upward in week 10, while lab tested influenza was still going down.10:50
mefistofelesPlanckWalk: I see10:52
mefistofelesyes, that's consistent with recent data10:52
mefistofelesI guess10:52
PlanckWalkNothing like the rates seen in week 12+, but enough to be suspicious10:53
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 08:50 UTC: China 'owes us': Growing outrage over Beijing's handling of the coronavirus pandemic: A growing chorus of voices around the world is calling for China to compensate for the damages incurred due to the global coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/q8T9RK10:54
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 08:55 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: government already out of home testing kits today; Trump says Johnson sounds 'ready to go' → https://is.gd/PDb8YQ11:01
mefistofelesEuropePMC really failing at article dates :/ from thecovid-19 search query they suggest11:13
mefistofelesmany of them showing 1-Dec-2020 dates11:14
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 09:08 UTC: Eurozone crisis: UK retail sales tumble amid Covid-19 lockdown, but alcohol demand soars - business live → https://is.gd/jhzPim11:15
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +1496 cases (now 44293), +189 deaths (now 6679) since 20 hours ago — Bangladesh: +503 cases (now 4689) since 20 hours ago — Poland: +248 cases (now 10759) since 16 hours ago11:22
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 09:16 UTC: China 'owes us': Growing outrage over Beijing's handling of the coronavirus pandemic: A growing chorus of voices around the world is calling for China to compensate for the damages incurred due to the global coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/q8T9RK11:23
tinwhiskersRidiculous11:29
BrainstormNew from BMJ at 09:16 UTC: What is happening to non-covid deaths?: Concerns are being raised that one possible consequence of efforts to contain covid-19 could be an increase in deaths from other causes. It’s still relatively early in the spread of the pandemic.... → https://is.gd/3GPkzp11:30
mefistofelestinwhiskers: what is? the "owes us" thing?11:31
tinwhiskersYeah11:31
mefistofelestinwhiskers: yes :/11:31
PlanckWalkTotally :(11:31
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 09:35 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Coronavirus Outbreak Timelapse January 20 to April 24 Distribution by continents Spread of Covid 19 → https://is.gd/GU8OBD11:37
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 09:41 UTC: Evolution of Face Masks: submitted by /u/SuccessfulRange6 to r/CoronaVirusInfo → https://is.gd/l2QOOi11:45
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 09:51 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Giappone → https://is.gd/QQ6GoD11:52
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 10:00 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr12:06
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 10:14 UTC: Trump floats dangerous coronavirus treatment ideas at daily briefing – video: Donald Trump prompted a backlash from medical experts after floating the idea that they could look into heat, light and injections of disinfectants as a cure for Covid-19. His public health advisers immediately played down the idea, and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/lyuosz12:20
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 10:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Indonesia reports biggest daily jump in cases; Airlines in 'survival mode' → https://is.gd/qc1XcV12:27
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 10:30 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: APP IMMUNI: Giorgio Taverniti spiega perchè sarebbe la piú grande violazione della privacy mai avvenuta. → https://is.gd/4B69GG12:34
BrainstormUpdates for Spain: +6740 cases (now 219764), +367 deaths (now 22524) since 21 hours ago — Singapore: +897 cases (now 12075) since 21 hours ago — Indonesia: +436 cases (now 8211) since 21 hours ago12:38
friedbatYikes. Looks like Spain's cases are spiking back up?12:42
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 10:46 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Spain daily death toll lowest in over a month; airlines in 'survival mode' → https://is.gd/qc1XcV12:48
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 10:54 UTC: Coronavirus: Test website closes after 'significant demand': Up to 10 million key workers and their households are eligible to book a test for coronavirus. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr13:03
mefistofelesfriedbat: yes, a bit, apparently13:08
mefistofelesstill on the "slowdown" trend, but not as much as some days ago13:10
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 11:09 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia - Milano → https://is.gd/me2xx713:10
mefistofelesafaics13:10
mefistofelesnow, testing are commonly still growing exponentially so that might as well play a role in getting more new daily cases , since testing is now growing faster than the cases themselves13:13
mefistofeleswould have to look if the specificity of these has changed significantly13:14
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 11:09 UTC: Coronavirus: Test website closes after 'significant demand': Up to 10 million key workers and their households are eligible to book a test for coronavirus. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr13:17
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 11:15 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: key workers denied tests as applications close and home kits run out → https://is.gd/PDb8YQ13:24
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 11:32 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna → https://is.gd/xofcb613:38
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 11:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Spain daily death toll lowest in over a month; airlines in 'survival mode' → https://is.gd/qc1XcV13:45
fRiTDr. Rashid Buttar debunks or fishing Covid-19 conspiracy https:www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGbYHJcMbz813:46
fRiTHe can get real popular real quick $ $$13:48
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 11:47 UTC: Coronavirus: Test website closes after 'significant demand': Up to 10 million key workers and their households are eligible to book a test for coronavirus. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr13:52
BrainstormUpdates for Iran: +1168 cases (now 88194), +93 deaths (now 5574) since 22 hours ago — Qatar: +761 cases (now 8525) since 22 hours ago — Brazil: +194 cases (now 50230) since 8 hours ago13:53
fRiTMisrepresentation13:57
fRiTLet me open up that Gift in the mail13:58
fRiTTest13:58
fRiTpick a finger14:00
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 12:02 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Excruciating clip shows the moment Trump's medical adviser heard him say bleach can cure coronavirus → https://is.gd/1zdrdG14:07
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 12:12 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Se servisse una raccomandazione medica: non iniettate il disinfettante. → https://is.gd/s8nYp214:14
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 12:16 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Giappone → https://is.gd/GHrFcG14:21
livebrain%data portugal14:26
Brainstormlivebrain: In all areas, Portugal, there are 22353 cases (0.2% of the population) and 820 deaths (3.7% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 315758 tests were performed (7.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal for time series data.14:26
livebrain%data holland14:26
Brainstormlivebrain: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 36535 cases (0.2% of the population) and 4289 deaths (11.7% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 187667 tests were performed (19.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data.14:26
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 12:21 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: officials apologise after key workers denied tests on day one of Hancock scheme → https://is.gd/PDb8YQ14:28
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 12:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump comments 'dangerous,' Spain reports lowest new deaths in a month → https://is.gd/voAMk114:35
dataman4NBC comments dangerous to humanity14:41
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 12:34 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Russia sees near-record jump in cases; Spain recoveries outstrip new infections → https://is.gd/8YgT7t14:42
livebraintrump spoke about putting dangerous stuff into the body14:42
livebraina president has to be very carefull about the words used 14:43
dataman4no he didn't14:43
dataman4I watched that whole press conference14:43
ecovlol14:43
livebrain13:43 < livebrain> a president has to be very carefull about the words used 14:43
livebrainbecause alot of ppl will misunderstood them14:43
dataman4NBC selectively edited and cut the video of him speaking14:43
livebrainand try stupid things 14:43
ecovlivebrain: it's called natural selection my friend14:43
dataman4NBC deliberately misinterprets him then you complain about people misunderstanding14:43
livebrainits not only NBC 14:43
dataman4agreed14:43
dataman4what POTUS said was fine and he's right, there are treatments and there is evidence of using some of these things to treat similar medical problems14:44
dataman4light has been used in medicine since the beginning14:44
ecovna dataman4 he suggested injecting bleach into your eyeball14:44
dataman4https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122858/14:45
livebrainbeginning of the virus ?14:45
dataman4https://twitter.com/chrisbergpov/status/124768099482150912114:45
dataman4CDC guidelines instruct doctors to declare deaths as COVID even when they aren't confirmed14:45
livebrainagain14:46
dataman4IL dept of health said they count them even when there's clearly a different cause of death, she even mentions hospice14:46
livebraina president has to be very carefull about words14:46
dataman4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEGCPPUiGvE14:46
dataman4President's words were fine. Fake news lies14:46
livebrainim not saying trump is good or bad14:47
livebrainthat is not relevant14:47
livebrainbut the wording was bad14:47
livebrainand stupid ppl will die because of it14:47
ecovlivebrain: if the president were to insinuate injeting bleach into your eye as a treatment, and 100,000 people did it and died, did anyone lose?14:47
ecovriddle of the day14:47
livebrainthose 100 000 would loose14:47
dataman4livebrain is obviously just a trump hater spreading NBC nonsense14:47
dataman4chinese propaganda14:48
livebrainjust because someone is "stupid" doesnt mean they have to die14:48
livebraindataman4: actually i kinda like trump14:48
ecovlivebrain: humanity didnt make it this far by preserving the stupid14:48
dataman4livebrain, are you American14:48
l0ndonerI've just read Trumps statement.... Alot of thick amaericans are going to poison themselves :(14:48
l0ndonerstupid cmment by trump14:48
dataman4go watch the press conference yourself14:48
dataman4instead of reading NBC's transcript14:48
livebraindataman4: i have14:48
livebrainand this is pointless14:48
dataman4if POTUS cured cancer you'd say he was hurting the medical industry14:49
ecovl0ndoner: I'll wait for the news articles of people offing themselves with bleach14:49
dataman4hypotheticals14:49
l0ndoneryea only matter of time14:49
ecovmaybe the advice will get some of you hermits outside14:49
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 12:46 UTC: (news): 'It's irresponsible and it's dangerous': Experts rip Trump's idea of injecting disinfectant to treat COVID-19 → https://is.gd/GoPB4d14:49
ecovi can smell the pasty skin in these irc rooms14:49
l0ndonerdataman4: will prob be the first lol14:50
livebrainppl have died because of stupid things trying to cure the virus14:50
livebrainand if a president is misunderstooded more will die14:50
ecov...14:51
dataman4that's literally not what he said14:51
ecovyoure making something out of nothing14:51
ecovyou realize that?14:51
dataman4NBC is full of shit and you're retarded if you believe NBC's headline14:51
livebraindataman4: who said i wachted nbc ?14:51
dataman4?14:51
dataman4who said I was talking to you14:51
l0ndonerI watched Trump... Guy is a buffoon but I like him14:51
ecovlivebrain: thoughts? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/mexico-health-workers-attacked-covid-19-fears14:52
livebrainspain has some issues also14:52
livebrainwith ppl telling doctors/nurses to go live elsewere14:52
ecovthose poor people throwing the bleach14:53
livebraindataman4: you need to take a "calm down pill" 14:53
peterxy[m]%cases india14:53
Brainstormpeterxy[m]: In all areas, India, there are 23502 cases (0.0% of the population) and 722 deaths (3.1% of cases) as of 4 minutes ago. 541789 tests were performed (4.3% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 12.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data.14:53
livebrainbecause the world is not against your nor the trump actually14:53
livebrainlol14:53
dataman4pointing out fake news14:54
dataman4sorry if it bothers you14:54
dataman4doesn't need to upend your world view to admit that NBC is not truthful14:54
ecov"Apart from being sprayed with bleach, they have faced verbal assaults, been denied seats in public transport and been blocked from entering their own communities."14:54
livebrainso even you misunderstood my words it seems14:54
livebraini never watched that nbc article14:55
dataman4POTUS didn't say injecting disinfectant, NBC said that - if you think those words are irresponsible - attack NBC since htey're the one who said it14:55
tinwhiskersdataman4: you really do need to take a chill pill14:55
livebrainbut go ahead with all the nbc hate14:55
ecovdataman4: it's the ol' "gotcha game"14:56
dataman4yea, they'd rather stir up trouble and get bad info out there14:56
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 12:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump comments 'dangerous,' Spain reports lowest new deaths in a month → https://is.gd/voAMk114:56
ecovdataman4: raitings14:57
dataman4hahaha14:57
dataman4trump14:57
dataman4trump's comments are dangerous to big pharma and that's all14:57
dataman4they hate hydroxychloroquine because it's generic, off patent, cheap and effective14:57
tinwhiskersecov: that's truly horrible what is happening in Mexico14:57
livebrainppl have died becuase of hydroxychloroquine14:58
dataman4fake news14:58
dataman4link me the pond cleaner article please14:58
dataman4you can die if you take 10 grams of caffiene, all medicines can be abused14:58
ecovthere was a death in Arizona IIRC from some idiot eating fish food14:58
livebrainyes stupid ppl will abuse that14:58
ecovthis type of behavior shouldnt be preserved and passed down14:58
livebrainas a "holly" cure for the virus14:58
livebrainand they will die14:58
livebrainand again... pls read with attention, i even like trump14:59
livebrainand im not saying he said those things14:59
livebrainbut a president needs to be very carefull with the chosen words14:59
livebrainbecause they will be misunderstooded by some14:59
dataman4ok mr chinese propaganda14:59
livebrainomg... 14:59
livebrainirc is hard sometimes15:00
dataman4take the 'brain' out of your name15:00
livebrainliving brain doesnt mean smart brain15:00
tinwhiskersdataman4: last warning with this antagonistic behaviour15:00
livebrainit means its alive15:00
l0ndonerdataman4: are you a trump supporter?15:00
dataman4tinwhiskers, relax mate. call him on his rhetoric too15:00
dataman4l0ndoner, I'm a proud American15:00
tinwhiskersTame it down or take it elsewhere15:01
dataman4Relax, loosen your sweatpants15:01
l0ndonerdataman4: not as proud as brits we outshine proud Americans by like 1000 years15:02
tinwhiskersThis is really not the ideal place for this political arguing but giving leeway since it's rather topical. Keep it nice though or I'll have to end.15:02
livebrain%data portugal15:02
Brainstormlivebrain: In all areas, Portugal, there are 22353 cases (0.2% of the population) and 820 deaths (3.7% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 315758 tests were performed (7.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal for time series data.15:02
dataman4Please stop threatening me, this isn't a place for narrative control15:02
dataman4if you want to have a sandbox discussion then I'm not interested anyway15:03
dataman4CDC altered guidelines for death certificates15:03
dataman4DOH counts hospice deaths and clear alternate causes of death as COVID15:03
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 12:58 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Il Consiglio dei ministri approva il Def - Politica - ANSA → https://is.gd/l3U5lU15:04
dataman4NBC twists Trump's words and lies, putting out info about injecting disinfectent (he never said that)15:04
dataman4so NBC puts out the bad info, attributes it to Trump - then other people carry that tune and the bad info propagates15:04
ecovdataman4: which makes me wonder, was Biden chosen so Trump can win reelection and carry on good ratings?15:05
ecovthe outrage makes them a shit ton of money15:05
tinwhiskersOk, that's enough of this political stuff please. It's off topic now.15:06
tinwhiskersYou could take it to ##coronavirus-vox but you'll still need to be polite15:07
ecovbut daaaaaaaaad15:07
livebrainone thing is for shure, every time i cough i think i have the virus (getting paranoid)15:07
tinwhiskers:-)15:07
livebrain-vox tinwhiskers ?15:07
dataman4ecov, I don't know why they picked Biden15:07
dataman4I think Bidens' truly the best they have to offer15:08
dataman4hard to pick a gem out of a crowd of corrupt a-holes15:08
ecovTulsi wouldve got my vote15:08
dataman4she's CFR15:08
dataman4not my cup of tea15:08
dataman4pun intended15:08
ecovlivebrain: same here, it doesnt help I smoke weed constantly15:09
BrainstormUpdates for Saudi Arabia: +1172 cases (now 15102) since a day ago — Sweden: +812 cases (now 17567), +131 deaths (now 2152) since a day ago — Netherlands: +806 cases (now 36535), +112 deaths (now 4289) since a day ago15:09
ecov*dies coughing* fuck... I hope I'm not sick *realizes I'm holding a joint*15:09
ecovheh15:09
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 13:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: officials apologise after key workers denied tests on day one of Hancock scheme → https://is.gd/PDb8YQ15:11
dataman4https://www.wcpo.com/news/coronavirus/cbp-seizes-over-2-000-counterfeit-kn95-masks-from-china15:14
dataman4CBP seizes over 2,000 counterfeit KN95 masks from China15:14
l0ndonerM3 not producing enough masks?15:15
dataman43M sold them to China, remember?15:16
dataman4POTUS had to call them out15:16
livebrainnot for the whole world15:16
dataman4https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/04/03/3m-blasts-back-at-trump-company-says-not-selling-masks-to-canada-could-spark-retaliation/#7f25961d746515:17
mefistofeleshttps://www.scientificamerican.com/video/the-science-behind-how-coronavirus-tests-work/ nice video on some basics of the testing science15:17
dataman43M says exporting the masks helps keep America safe LOL15:17
dataman4meanwhile we get shitty knockoffs from China that let the virus infect our precious medical staff15:17
livebrain3M is going to get alot of money with the crisis15:18
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 13:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump comments 'dangerous,' Spain reports lowest new deaths in a month → https://is.gd/voAMk115:18
dataman4who programmed this bot15:18
mefistofelesdataman4: is owned by LjL and it's a version of a commonly known python bot, iirc15:19
mefistofelesdon't recall the exact name for the python bot, though15:19
mefistofelesbut it should be one of the sopel, phyenny, jenni family15:19
mefistofeles*phenny15:19
dataman4obviously I was meaning who selected the source list of news items15:20
mefistofelesdataman4: basically LjL does15:20
dataman4ok15:20
ecovdataman4: this is the general attitude in this channel... i mentioned the good news yesterday that UV light kills the virus quickly.... Ive been working outside during this whole thing.... and the response was "BUT IS IT ENOUGH?!"15:20
ecovfeed on the outrage15:20
mefistofelesecov: not true, that's not the general attitude here15:20
dataman4parlay that into this15:20
dataman4s yesterday that UV light kills the virus quickly.... Ive been working outside during this whole thing.... and the response was "BUT IS IT ENOUGH?!"15:20
dataman4oops bad paste15:21
dataman4https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technology/bill-gates-backing-plan-to-stop-climate-change-by-blocking-out-the-sun/ar-AAFKQVN15:21
mefistofelesalso, it's been known for months that UV light kills this15:21
dataman4then why does the fake news and CDC want us all inside15:21
dataman4(they want you to get sick)15:21
ecovmefistofeles: people have been saying for awhile now that because of the situation in Aus. we werent sure15:21
mefistofeleseven actually years, since this is just commonly known in biology15:21
ecovcant backpedal now15:21
ecoveither way, it was good news to me15:21
dataman4they attacked POTUS for saying the virus would wane in the warmer temperatures, fake news is fake15:21
ecovbut doom and gloom to others apparently15:21
ecovexactly dataman415:22
mefistofelesecov: jumping from "UV kills virus" to "there's enough UV light coming getting to the surface of the earth from the sun" is a whole different thing15:22
ecovsigh....  15:22
mefistofelesand even so if the virus itself is exposed long enough to it, as well15:22
dataman4mefistofeles that's not what he said lol15:22
dataman4in average sunlight the virus dies within minutes15:22
ecovlmao15:22
mefistofelesdataman4: no15:22
dataman4yes15:22
ecovummm.. yes?15:22
mefistofelessource?15:22
ecovTHIS is what I'm talking about15:22
ecovinsanity15:23
mefistofelesecov: so you don't want people to ask you for sources of your info?15:23
mefistofelesthat's insanity15:23
mefistofeleseven so, that doesn't really answer the second and most relevant point15:23
dataman4https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8252701/Coronavirus-dies-SUNLIGHT-just-minutes-reveals-striking-study.html15:24
mefistofelesthe virus doesn't get that exposed to sunlight in general15:24
dataman4DHS Science and Technology study shows15:24
dataman4mefistofeles, surfaces do - and the virus can be transmitted by surface contact15:24
ecovdataman4: you see the uncharitable arguing?15:24
mefistofelesand the infection is known to happen in rather closed spaces and from prolongued contact with infected people, already known for weeks/months15:24
ecovfor the sake of arguing15:24
mefistofelesdataman4: yes, but it's not the most likely way15:24
mefistofelesdepends on higher loeads15:25
mefistofelesloads*15:25
dataman4mefistofeles so why is staying inside in close proximity with your elder family better than going out to the park15:25
mefistofelesdataman4: dailymail is not a good source, btw, it's known to have faulty information, I was trying to get a scientific study or something like that, if possible15:25
dataman4why is there caution tape around  the swingset in the park by my house15:25
dataman4dailymail is not the source, DHS is15:26
ecovdataman4: theyre getting you used to it15:26
LjLYou're citing the daily mail talking about "unpublished research"? Seriously?15:26
dataman4learn to think critically15:26
dataman4dailymail is not the source15:26
dataman4DHS is15:26
ecovuncharitable arguing for the sake of arguing15:26
dataman4exactly15:26
mefistofelesdataman4: I asked for the source15:26
tinwhiskersSunlight is not effective in killing the virus because it is not exposed to sunlight on all faces. We live in a 3d world.15:27
mefistofelesindeed15:27
ecovyou guys are arguing as if its being said UV LIGHT IS THE CURE!!!15:28
ecovwhich its not15:28
mefistofelesecov: the only one bitching about it is you, nothing wrong with asking for scientific sources and good information15:28
ecovagain, this is uncharitable arguing15:28
mefistofelesecov: we have never said that15:28
LjLWhat's uncharitable is waking up and quieting someone only after a cursory read of the backscroll15:28
LjLAnd yet I did it anyway15:28
LjLJust saying15:28
ecov"uv light kills virus on surfaces in 1 minute"  and you get jumped on15:29
mefistofelesecov: can we move past the bitching?15:29
mefistofelesI'm still expecting the source and information15:30
ecovhttps://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/sunlight-humidity-kill-coronavirus-fastest-scientists-200424065853466.html15:30
ecoval jazeera better?15:30
mefistofelesscientific source, again15:30
ecovare you this helpless? first result15:30
mefistofelesecov: so you had to look for it, thought you had it already... I see15:30
mefistofelesmakes sense15:30
ecov?15:30
ecovagain, arguing for the sake of it15:30
mefistofelessure15:30
ecovyou're sick in the head :)15:30
mefistofelesso, anybody has a reviewed scientific study that tackles this question? It seems really odd that the US government is claiming this and they don't back it up with anything15:32
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 13:27 UTC: Coronavirus: Test website closes after 'significant demand': Up to 10 million key workers and their households are eligible to book a test for coronavirus. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr15:32
ecovit's been known for months that UV light kills this15:33
mefistofeleswouldn't be the first time US oliticians say stupid stuff, of course15:34
mefistofeles*politicians15:34
izmefistofeles: it feels like just the second generation of "the spring/summer will kill this off like magic"15:34
mefistofelesiz: yes, the hope of it15:34
ecov^^^^^15:34
izyeah15:34
ecovjust as I said15:34
mefistofelesbut again, a research is cited but nowhere to be found :/15:35
ecov" you guys are arguing as if its being said UV LIGHT IS THE CURE!!!"  15:35
ecov[06:28] <mefistofeles> ecov: we have never said that15:35
ecov"[06:34] <iz> mefistofeles: it feels like just the second generation of "the spring/summer will kill this off like magic""15:35
ecovlol15:35
l0ndonerdatamman4 is Ljl iirc bot?15:36
tinwhiskersI've not seen any evidence before this either to suggest that a few minutes in the sun will make things safe. I'm highly sceptical and without something decent to back it up it seems like a very dangerous message to be sending15:36
mefistofelesthis shouldn't be that hard to test, tbh... there were others already but nowhere near to natural UV sunlight content, and the particles exposed for 30 mins or more15:36
mefistofelesl0ndoner: what? 15:36
mefistofelestinwhiskers: exactly15:37
l0ndonerhow does uv light tell which cells have covid-19?15:37
mefistofelesl0ndoner: no, it's not selective15:37
l0ndonerso it zaps all cells nice 15:38
mefistofelesthat's why Trump saying these things about using UV light in the body and injecting disinfectant is idiotic15:38
l0ndonernothing wrong with bleach. I use cap full of bleach to 1 litre water and spray my sides down with it15:39
l0ndonerkitchen sides15:39
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 13:35 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump comments 'dangerous,' Spain reports lowest new deaths in a month → https://is.gd/voAMk115:39
mefistofelesI cannot really understand how peple let this person say such stupid things xD15:40
mefistofelespeople*15:40
mefistofeleseven the people close to him15:40
ecovhttps://www.scribd.com/document/456897616/DHSST#download&from_embed15:41
mefistofelesunless they actually expect that to be believable by many (probably very ignorant people) and gain some political credibility15:41
mefistofelesI guess15:41
l0ndonerArchitect of Sweden's approach says it has worked15:41
ecovi know a source isnt what you really wanted15:43
ecovbut there it is15:43
ecovanyway, I dont think anyone is expecting this to be a cure, but I'm outside a lot and it was GOOD NEWS TO ME15:44
ecovSO FUCK YOU15:44
ecov:P15:44
Damngerbergyou too15:45
Damngerbergj #COVID-1915:46
mefistofelesso I guess that's supposed to be a leaked document on the source15:47
mefistofelesthat they claimed in congress15:47
LjLdataman3: no, you're wrong, I didn't ask you for a source and then mute you. You should pay careful attention to the fact that "mefistofeles" and "LjL" are two different groups of letters15:53
LjLIn fact I muted you because based on all I've seen you type here making me think I don't want you hear. The source thing really is the least of issues.15:54
LjLBut right now I have 94% o2sats so I don't elaborate further. Maybe I need to shine a bright UVC lamp on me.15:55
izlol, was ecov the same guy that was swearing at me and saying i'm difficult to talk to yesterday?15:56
mefistofelesiz: don'tknow, but if anything, it fits15:57
izit's not still in my scrollback, but i'm pretty sure it's the same guy and same nick15:58
mefistofelesit's not the first time that user has been muted, afair15:58
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 13:56 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump comments 'dangerous,' Spain's daily death toll lowest in a month → https://is.gd/voAMk116:01
NoImNotNineVoltjohn cleese on president trump's recent comments on sars-cov-2 and/or covid-19: https://twitter.com/JohnCleese/status/1253525593062170624?s=2016:03
NoImNotNineVoltI would like to announce that President Trump has gone mad ( That's 'mad' in the English sense, as in 'King George III went mad, walked up to a tree in Richmond Park, and addressed it as the King of Prussia )16:03
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:04 UTC: China 'owes us': Growing outrage over Beijing's handling of the coronavirus pandemic: A growing chorus of voices around the world is calling for China to compensate for the damages incurred due to the global coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/q8T9RK16:08
BrainstormUpdates for US: +1284 cases (now 887993), +75 deaths (now 50318) since 10 hours ago — Belarus: +751 cases (now 8773) since a day ago — Virginia, US: +596 cases (now 11594) since 23 hours ago16:09
LjLSpec, Amazon is delivering an order in two parts, one May 2 which is a Saturday and one April 26 which is a SUNDAY16:10
LjLand i've tried to change that but nope16:10
bin_bashwhats wrong with it16:11
mefistofelesSUNDAY!16:14
mefistofeleshehe16:14
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:07 UTC: United now requires flight attendants to wear masks. Their union wants all passengers to wear them, too: United Airlines made masks mandatory for flight attendants but their labor union is urging federal officials to mandate passengers wear them as well as coronavirus spreads. → https://is.gd/m5OxVL16:15
tinwhiskersThat's a really good move, uncomfortable at it might be16:16
mefistofelesyes, pretty closed space16:16
LjLbin_bash, well nothing, i'm sure they'll pay their employees generous extra time for working on sundays...16:20
bin_bashlol16:20
bin_bashidk how it is in italy but in the us they partner with logistics companies 16:21
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 14:17 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Miami-Dade County misses out on 1 million N95 masks, blames feds for snagging shipment → https://is.gd/nTPKx016:22
LjLbin_bash, also from a selfish point of view, doorkeeper isn't there on sundays16:22
LjLso we have to answer the door on the fly and run down before they get bored and go to do next delivery16:23
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:26 UTC: United now requires flight attendants to wear masks. Union urges same rule for passengers, too: United Airlines made masks mandatory for flight attendants but their labor union is urging federal officials to mandate passengers wear them as well as the coronavirus spreads. → https://is.gd/m5OxVL16:29
mefistofelesLjL: can you leave a message in the door? may work16:30
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Lysol maker says don't ingest disinfectants; United makes masks mandatory → https://is.gd/voAMk116:36
bin_bashLjL: wow no doorman on sundays at all? not even an auxillary? yeah that def causes a bigger issue16:37
bin_bashthe lysol thing is so funny because lysol was invented to be a vaginal douche16:37
LjLthe people who live in this building are so bright that some of them complained to the doorkeeper that it smelt like bleach in the hall16:38
bin_bashalso i personally hope that everyone who thinks trump is a trustworthy source of medical information follows his suggestion and mainlines disinfectant16:38
LjLso she stopped using bleach16:38
Butterfly^https://i.imgur.com/e4MKQeW.mp4  Well well, i’ll be damned! Bill warned us!!16:40
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Italy's daily coronavirus recoveries surpass new cases for the first time since the outbreak began (10296 votes) | https://redd.it/g759lj16:40
JamGobbaritaly reopening yet?16:43
ubLIXcan't tell if this has been posted yet; The Economist spent some time examining excess-deaths: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries16:46
ubLIXentire article appears to be viewable without subscription provided you disable jscript from www.economist.com but allow most other first party scripts16:47
ubLIXessentially a discussion of euromomo's data16:48
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +5386 cases (now 143464), +768 deaths (now 19506) since a day ago — US: +1086 cases (now 889079), +51 deaths (now 50369) since 51 minutes ago — Maryland, US: +879 cases (now 16616) since 23 hours ago16:54
mefistofelesah ubLIX I wa expecting one of those, thanks16:56
tinwhiskersubLIX: fantastic16:56
tinwhiskersThat's really awesome16:58
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:55 UTC: United now requires flight attendants to wear masks. Union urges same rule for passengers, too: United Airlines made masks mandatory for flight attendants but their labor union is urging federal officials to mandate passengers wear them as well as the coronavirus spreads. → https://is.gd/m5OxVL16:58
mefistofeleswould be nice to see Germany's data16:58
mefistofelesubLIX: euronomo?16:58
ubLIXeuromomo16:59
mefistofelesah I see16:59
mefistofelesthanks16:59
ubLIXhttps://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#excess-mortality17:01
ubLIXi suspect the economist's discussion will be more easily digestible17:01
ubLIXbut euromomo is there if you want a closer look17:02
tinwhiskersNice. Thanks17:02
darsiepanel discussion on privacy concerns around contact-tracing technologies for pandemic mitigation: https://www.disruptionlab.org/fridays17:02
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 15:00 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Lysol maker says don't ingest disinfectants; United makes masks mandatory → https://is.gd/voAMk117:05
mefistofeleswoah, from euromomo's the 2017 flu season hit hard! heh17:06
mefistofelesthough I don't get why Germany doesn't show a change in the z-score in this month17:06
mefistofelesdoes the article say something about that?17:07
ubLIX"We cannot compare EuroMOMO’s reports directly to official covid-19 tolls, because it does not publish absolute numbers of deaths for each country, and in some, such as Italy and Germany, covers only a selection of cities and regions."17:08
ubLIX"Like neighbouring Germany (which has yet to release recent total mortality data), Austria locked down early and has suffered relatively few deaths from the virus. On April 19th its official covid-19 death toll was less than 500, counting only people who had tested positive before passing away."17:09
ubLIXno other mention of Germany in the economist article17:09
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 15:05 UTC: (news): Experts fire back after Trump asks whether injecting disinfectant can fight coronavirus → https://is.gd/7gH19017:12
mefistofelesubLIX: ah nice, thanks17:12
ubLIXit does say this, though: "As more places start to publish their total mortality figures, The Economist will report and analyse them on this page."17:13
ubLIXtheir study seems to be ongoing, and that page seems to be where it will be discussed17:13
mefistofeleshttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html another on the topic, fwiw17:18
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 15:19 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA → https://is.gd/QI5HAr17:19
BrainstormUpdates for US: +1119 cases (now 890198) since 37 minutes ago — Florida, US: +526 cases (now 30174) since 17 hours ago — United Arab Emirates: +525 cases (now 9281) since a day ago17:25
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 15:21 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/087JMo17:27
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 15:30 UTC: Citing a 'primary outcome' of death, researchers cut chloroquine coronavirus study short over safety concerns: Scientists say the findings should "serve to curb the exuberant use" of the drug, which has been touted by President Donald Trump as a potential "game-changer" in the fight against the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/xUkqKf17:34
LjL18<26JamGobbar18> italy reopening yet? ← May 4 some things will reopen17:46
LjLprobably just a few17:46
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 15:43 UTC: Coronavirus: Test website closes after 'significant demand': Up to 10 million key workers and their households are eligible to book a test for coronavirus. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr17:48
mefistofelesLjL: Not sure if we have the any excess death reports on the links in the topic, if not, maybe add one of the recently mentioned?17:50
LjLwe have euromomo17:52
LjLthe new york times... ugh, i'm a bit allergic to adding links that require subscription/registration to open17:52
LjLlet's see how archive.org fares with it17:52
LjLuhm17:54
LjLnow i'll sound a bit nationalist or something17:54
LjLbut, a selection of countries with excess COVID deaths... not including Italy?17:54
LjLEcuador with what looks like a whole two data points: yes, Italy: nope?17:54
LjL"Where we found higher deaths than normal" ← doesn't include Italy either. really?17:55
mefistofelesLjL: I guess euromomo should do it then17:56
LjL"It is unusual for mortality data to be released so quickly, demographers say, but many countries are working to provide more comprehensive and timely information because of the urgency of the coronavirus outbreak. The data is limited and, if anything, excess deaths are underestimated because not all deaths have been reported." ← i sort of hope that's why at least17:56
mefistofelesalso, not having Italy is fine, since it depends on the sources17:57
LjLi just feel a bit... ignored, being in the place that was hit hardest by far, at least before the united states dominated the picture17:57
LjLi won't go as far as "offended", but some of that sort of feeling17:57
LjLbut also, i hadn't clicked on the euromomo link yet... it looks like they revamped the site and graphs completely?17:58
LjLit definitely looks less ancient, although depending on how much JS is required i suppose ubLIX may prefer the old one :P17:59
LjL> Kindly note that any use of data or information originating from the EuroMOMO website must be appropriately quoted and acknowledged.18:00
LjLi hate EU attitudes on this18:00
LjLit's numbers18:00
LjLthey shouldn't be copyrighted18:00
LjLit's vital numbers, at that18:00
LjL"appropriately", in the case of some EU-related sites like meteoalarm.eu, means you basically cannot use them legally in a bot, and you also must ensure you don't have "old" data lying around visible to the public as they don't allow that18:01
LjLwhich is just ridiculous when you compare it to the way these things are in the US18:01
ubLIXi think i'll drop in on the economist link from time to time since it seems set to go beyond euromomo to a global view, as data become available18:02
BrainstormNew from Scientific American at 16:00 UTC: Health: COVID-19 Will Hit the Elderly Even Harder in Developing Countries → https://is.gd/ulzrfg18:02
LjLlet me see the economist too...18:03
LjLeuromomo graphs are definitely more readable than before for me18:03
ubLIXbut it does technically require a subscription (that can be defeated with some uMatrix wrangling)18:03
mefistofelesalso, having only two data points is fine18:05
BrainstormUpdates for US: +2563 cases (now 892761), +446 deaths (now 50849) since 49 minutes ago — Pennsylvania, US: +1599 cases (now 38652) since 15 hours ago — Canada: +663 cases (now 42773) since 17 hours ago18:05
mefistofelessince here what matter the most is the absolut numbers not a rate or trend... at least initially18:05
LjLubLIX, economist doesn't ask me for a subscription, may be a matter of how many articles i've viewed, dunno18:06
mefistofelesLjL: so NYT requires subscription?18:06
LjLmefistofeles, subscription or registration, not necessarily payment, registration can just be giving them your email to track you18:06
LjLanyway https://web.archive.org/web/20200424152036/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html works for me18:06
mefistofelesLjL: I think it depends on the country, probably, the economist ask for it, and I'm sure I haven't checked any articles from that18:06
mefistofeleslet me try something quick18:07
mefistofelesLjL: yeah, weird it doesn ask that for me18:07
mefistofelesI have never registered or anything18:07
LjLubLIX, i like the economist's page (as much as i don't like the economist itself, i think) because it looks specifically at places like Lombardy and the Madrid community18:07
LjLand London, which looks ugly18:08
mefistofelesso yeah, it depends on country apparently, for the economist18:08
mefistofelesI used a vpn and all went smoothly18:08
LjLwould you say these data pertail to the epidemiology section?18:08
LjLpertain18:08
mefistofelespress18:09
mefistofelesI'd say18:09
LjLi'm almost tempted to make a separate section so that i can link to it from the part where it explains why it's not a flu18:09
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 16:01 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Lysol maker says don't ingest disinfectants; United makes masks mandatory → https://is.gd/voAMk118:09
mefistofelesthere's no epidemiology on showing numbers, tbh, unless they are checking some hypothesis... which I haven't checked because I just recently got access to it18:09
mefistofelesI wouldn't consider this as "not a flu" argument, since it can be confusing, you can see how the 2017-18 flu also had high peaks, even though we were already expecting it, so it may actually undermine that idea18:16
mefistofeleswe know it's not a flu, but I don't think this clearly adds to that18:16
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 16:13 UTC: (news): Experts fire back after Trump asks whether injecting disinfectant can fight coronavirus → https://is.gd/7gH19018:16
ragerhttps://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-suggests-injection-disinfectant-beat-coronavirus-clean-lungs-n119121618:17
ragerOldish, but can you believe?18:17
ragerIs this how Yakub made the first white people?18:17
mefistofelesrager: we already went over that one... don't get us started again xD haha18:18
mefistofelesrager: also, no need for the religious comment18:19
BrainstormUpdates for US: +1273 cases (now 894034), +70 deaths (now 50919) since 16 minutes ago — Indiana, US: +641 cases (now 13680) since 23 hours ago — Chile: +494 cases (now 12306) since a day ago18:20
ragerI'm just sad that this guy is our face.18:21
mefistofeleswell, it was elected by the people :/ so that's why18:22
ragerAs murrikans18:22
ragerMinority Rule, but yeah18:23
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 16:21 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Lysol maker says don't ingest disinfectants; United makes masks mandatory → https://is.gd/voAMk118:24
BrainstormUpdates for Ecuador: +11536 cases (now 22719) since 23 hours ago — Turkey: +3122 cases (now 104912), +109 deaths (now 2600) since 23 hours ago — Italy: +3021 cases (now 192994), +420 deaths (now 25969) since a day ago18:35
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 16:34 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association, a randomized, double-blind trial of chloroquine with N = 81 "found that a higher dosage of chloroquine diphosphate for 10 days was associated with more toxic effects and lethality" → https://is.gd/HyW5Tg18:38
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 16:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Lysol maker says don't ingest disinfectants; United makes masks mandatory → https://is.gd/voAMk118:45
mefistofeles↑ LOL18:46
LjLi read "United States makes it mandatory"18:47
mefistofelesLjL: same here18:47
mefistofelesthat would've been funnier18:47
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 16:57 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA - Georgia → https://is.gd/hWYJFK18:59
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 17:06 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Georgia businesses reopen cautiously as number of US deaths tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk119:13
pynaidk, haven't seen any double blind studies proving eating tide pods and poking your eye out with a pencil isn't a cure 19:15
berndjwhat's the opinion on the major transmission routes? is it dominated by respiratory droplets? where to fomites figure on the hierarchy of transmission modes?19:15
BrainstormUpdates for US: +8727 cases (now 903202) since 46 minutes ago — New York, US: +8130 cases (now 276711) since an hour ago — Germany: +527 cases (now 154111), +55 deaths (now 5632) since 3 hours ago19:20
ubLIXberndj: it's difficult to make a quantitative comparison because measuring viral load in air is even harder than analysing its behaviour on surfaces; i believe most conventional authorities for some time foregrounded the fomite idea for want of anything better to do; analysing probability in airborne transmission would require extensive resort to fluid dynamics and assessing viral durability in atmosphere, a near prohibitively complex task19:26
ubLIXthis pre-print obliquely gets at a sense of the problem: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.04.20053058v119:28
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: POTUS disinfectant comments trigger manufacturer to warn people against injecting themselves with cleaning products (10669 votes) | https://redd.it/g772vd19:29
ubLIXi'm wondering if that pre-print could be used to support an argument for relaxation of restrictions on outdoor exercise (subject to maintaining metres of social distancing)19:30
PakseubLIX: no outdoor exe there?19:33
ubLIXafaik, here in UK, the restriction is still one form of outdoor exercise per day, done alone (or with members of your own household)19:37
LjLubLIX, one form meaning in practice as many times as you want until the police actually stop you and ask, presumably19:39
LjLsince i don't see how it could be effectively otherwise19:39
ubLIXwell, yes19:39
LjLor maybe the drones remember you19:40
ubLIXone's neighbours do from time to time report each other19:40
ubLIXi'm very lucky in not really having neighbours and live so remotely that the exercise restriction has little practical effect on me19:41
LjLubLIX, they do? good lord19:43
LjLin china they legally *have* to19:43
LjLbut, well, like.19:43
LjLso can i report my neighbor for asking the doorkeeper to stop disinfecting everything with bleach?19:43
LjLshe could be charged with, i believe the legal term is, "being a moron"19:43
ubLIXthe UK can sometimes seem like a nation of busybodies (if you read the right (wrong?) newspapers)19:43
blkshpWe're always busy ;)19:44
LjL%title https://apnews.com/7779be92028441b387418d87bca0437b19:45
BrainstormLjL: From apnews.com: The Latest: Trump says disinfectant comments were sarcasm19:45
LjL> But speaking to reporters in the Oval Office Friday, Trump insisted his comments were misconstrued. “I was asking the question sarcastically to reporters like you, just to see what would happen,” Trump said.19:45
LjLno, you weren't. you were asking them to YOUR OWN DOCTOR, which was behind you and trying to disappear into her chair19:45
LjLi believe we are able to see a video and our eyes can, somehow, parse that almost as if we were seeing the actual scene, despite it being just a 2D reconstruction on a screen19:46
pwr22Lol19:46
LjLit's magic, almost as magic as UV19:46
pwr22Does he know what sarcasm means?19:46
LjLin fact, there is some UV in it unless i tell my OS to keep the blues down19:46
LjLpwr22, i'm sure someone briefed him up on it now19:46
ubLIXbut for urban areas, assuming the validity of that pre-print, and if there can be general trust that more outdoorsy exercise wouldn't cause a mass uptick in face to face conversations, perhaps relax exercise restrictions?19:47
pwr22Ah I see, he was being sarcastic about being sarcastic19:47
ubLIXtrust in incidental uptick of close encounters probably weakest link in this argument19:48
LjLubLIX, i think we just don't know what happens in the air, and i personally have given up trying to sneak out to have a walk19:48
LjLnot just because the restrictions are ridiculously tight but also because i'm kind of genuinely concerned with getting it19:48
LjLespecially from, say, runners who are breathing out a lot of droplets19:49
LjLi can dodge them but i can't dodge any air with smaller droplets they've left around without me seeing them there19:49
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 17:45 UTC: (news): Trump tries to walk back speculation about injecting disinfectants to fight coronavirus, claims he was being sarcastic → https://is.gd/TWg9Zq19:49
LjLand that air may not be dangerous, but we don't know. we just don't know.19:49
ubLIXyeah19:49
BrainstormUpdates for France: +1645 cases (now 159828), +389 deaths (now 22245) since 22 hours ago — India: +932 cases (now 24434), +58 deaths (now 780) since 10 hours ago — Canada: +778 cases (now 43551), +97 deaths (now 2294) since an hour ago19:50
ubLIXthe data from that pre-print doesn't really have an unambiguous coverage of non-lockdown regime anyway19:51
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 17:55 UTC: Aggiornamento 24/04: submitted by /u/maikk_ to r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA → https://is.gd/mRAyU519:56
LjLubLIX, if they found only one transmission outdoors... i would tend to suspect it's just hard to trace contacts outdoors19:58
LjLwhich is probably much of what an app would be useful for19:58
LjLnot sure if by 11 february china had an app setup working yet19:59
ubLIXbut the idea/method of the pre-print could be adapted to compare post-lockdown home vs supermarket driven outbreaks, which i think could offer a signal for the air/fomite question20:00
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 18:00 UTC: Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus 'cure' wrote to Trump this week: Mark Grenon wrote to Trump saying chlorine dioxide ‘can rid the body of Covid-19’ days before the president promoted disinfectant as treatment → https://is.gd/bd9QLs20:04
pynawe must shine the light of jesus trump into our bodies20:04
ubLIXi think the apps would primarily populate lists of people for the pavement-pounding contact tracers to interrogate; i think without detailed questioning, signal wrt air/contact/fomite will be hard to extract20:04
ubLIXbut certainly valuable for letting an individual know they passed through a hotspot, for whatever that's worth20:05
ThomCat[m]Dear almost-the-rest-of-the-World,20:05
ThomCat[m]What's it like with competent leadership?20:05
pwr22UK announced it plans to use drones to deliver medical supplies20:06
pwr22Doesn't sound very efficient?20:06
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 18:03 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Georgia businesses reopen cautiously as number of US deaths tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk120:11
ubLIXit doesn't, no20:16
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 18:24 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Scienza → https://is.gd/gu2d4A20:25
ubLIXyuriwho: idk if this is your speed (Prioritisation of potential anti-SARS-CoV-2 drug repurposing opportunities based on ability to achieve adequate target site concentrations derived from their established human pharmacokinetics), posted 22 April: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20068379v120:28
generawhat? Speed as a drug for covid? does Trump know?20:36
genera^20:37
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 18:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus test website to reopen for bookings after 'significant demand' → https://is.gd/N1GvNb20:39
friedbatwhy does this channel discuss trump more often than coronavirus20:39
friedbatthere are plenty of politics channels on freenode20:39
ketaswell trump is not wrong about injecting ipa also killing virus20:39
ketas:)20:40
ArsaneritAccording to several sources (for example https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html), models estimate 20% of people in Stockholm are already immune to COVID-19. But in Germany, virologists estimate it will take a year to reach herd immunity without overwhelming the healthcare system 20:40
Arsanerit(https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/covid-19-was-hilft-im-kampf-gegen-das-coronavirus.1939.de.html). How could Stockholm be so different from Germany, Bergamo, or New York City?20:40
ketasthe "also" part is why we don't it20:40
ketasdo20:40
ketas:)20:40
Arsaneritketas: Trump is right, injecting poison does kill the coronavirus, because it can't survive in a dead host.20:40
Arsanerithttps://xkcd.com/1217/20:40
friedbatArsanerit: they have had different approaches. Sweden hasn't locked things down so their infection rate might have been higher.20:40
generadont try that at home. corpses still infectious.20:41
friedbatwe often inject poisons as a way to treat illness. that's what chemotherapy is.20:41
ketaswhat if we trick virus into thinking host is dead so it goes fuck i'm outta here?20:41
ketas:)20:42
berndjfriedbat, yeah i find the "bad orange man stoopid" stuff a bit tiresome too lol20:42
berndjand chlorine dioxide isn't bleach. checkmate anti-trumpers!20:43
friedbatberndj: i can understand it occassionally, but just judging from the past 2 days, it's constant.20:43
berndj(IIRC ClO2 is far worse than mere bleach)20:43
LjLwho'd seriously think Trump won't be getting discussed after the shit he said yesterday?20:44
LjLi won't say "bad orange man stoopid" because that doesn't convey a lot20:44
LjLbut he said some foolish and dangerous things and is now trying to claim they were somehow "sarcasm"20:44
LjLit's going to be discussed, he's going to be ridiculed for it, and rightly so.20:44
AimHereIt's not news that he's stupid. It is news that he's instructing people as stupid as he is to kill themselves20:44
friedbatit's much more interesting to discuss actual science, there's so much we're learning every day about this damn virus. we could spend all day just discussing pre-prints and theories and stats and run out of time. instead of lazy "drumpf dumb" comments.20:44
LjLAimHere, well that is not news either after the chloroquine business20:44
berndji seriously think you need to be a bit "out there" to genuinely think he genuinely wants to inject chlorox into people20:44
ketasmix ipa with mms, add some morphine and iv20:45
ketas:)20:45
Arsaneritfriedbat: Yes, but how can they reach that level without going through New York or Bergamo style overwhelming of the healthcare system?20:45
Arsaneritfriedbat: And why would it be much quicker in Stockholm than in Germany?20:46
friedbatberndj: he told the research guy to look at the effect of disinfectants and uv light as therapies. he didn't tell people to drink bleach. but if you hate trump you'll make believe he did.20:46
AimHereHe didn't tell people to drink bleach. He told them to inject it20:46
friedbatArsanerit: because they didn't impose lock-downs20:46
friedbatand they didn't close businesses20:46
LjLberndj, so he was being sarcastic? he was making a public speech where he turned around, repeatedly, to his doctor, who was clearly looking like "oh my god make it he doesn't ask me anything", and then of course he did ask her whether she thought it was a good idea... and this was just sarcasm? i'm not saying he "wants" to inject anything in anything, i said 1) he said foolish, uninformed things that make him ridiculous and 2) those things may make less 20:47
LjLknowledgeable people actually try doing dangerous thigs20:47
berndji haven't even looked at it in his own words, but dollars to donuts i'm gonna watch and think, "THIS is what people are so upset about???"20:47
Arsaneritfriedbat: How did that prevent people from dying en masse?20:47
friedbatso the rate of transmission wasn't depressed in stockholm with social distancing measures20:47
berndjLjL, he also asks people what we would do if aliens landed tomorrow20:47
ketastrump even likes to be idiot i guess20:47
friedbatArsanerit: well, that's the million dollar question. sweden is using a different strategy and they're seemingly not falling apart20:47
ArsaneritHow did they not overwhelm the healthcare system?20:47
Arsaneritfriedbat: Yes, that is my question.20:47
friedbatArsanerit: they took an approach of trying to protect the elderly (though they did have a few nursing home outbreaks). it is elderly that usually end up needing icus20:48
berndjand what are we using as a baseline anyway? there are 330 million americans, there are going to be some dumb ones among them. one could say literally *anything* and somebody would kill themselves as a result20:48
LjLthere's a spike in deaths in Sweden, just like in other countries. either they did overwhelm the hospital system, or people who die are just dying at home without ever getting to hospital. not much in-between20:48
ketasthe measures are to limit, not stop the spreas20:48
ketasd20:48
berndji have a bad feeling about sweden20:49
AimHereSweden's deaths haven't peaked yet20:49
berndjmaking the same mistake every other country already made, and then recanted20:49
friedbatsweden's infection rates have plateued20:49
friedbatthat's a good sign for them.20:49
LjLberndj, you said you seriously think you need to be "out there" to genuinely believe blah blah but at this point i'm going to reciprocate by saying you genuinely need to be "out there" to think yesterday's speech from Trump wasn't absurd to the point of surreal, as well as bad and potentially dangerous20:49
AimHereInfection rates are hard to gauge, because they're clearly undertesting20:49
friedbatLjL: he didn't say anyone should do anything. he asked his research team to look into it.20:50
friedbatthat's all20:50
LjLwhich was ridiculous20:50
friedbatanything else is your own interpretation rather than what he said20:50
LjLno20:50
berndjsigh, i guess i can't postpone it any longer, i'll have to watch the actual clip now20:50
AimHereAnd the worldometers logarithmic chart shows they're still a positive gradient, so somthing approaching an exponential rise, even *with* testing20:50
AimHeres/testing/limited testing20:50
ubLIXurl dump; ALCU, "Principles for Technology-Assisted Contact-Tracing": https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/aclu_white_paper_-_contact_tracing_principles.pdf20:51
ketassadly i can't be tested for curiosity because test are needed for people actually sick... i guess it's even good as positive result would put more restrictions on me20:51
ketastested for curiosity :)20:51
friedbatberndj: it20:51
ketasi'm curious as cat20:51
friedbatberndj: it's not too interesting. it was a dumb question trump asked of his researcher. but now it's being used by trump haters to make up that he said people should drink bleach.20:52
friedbatit's sort of a waste of time to watch it, unless you're bored.20:52
berndjthat's my default assumption, but i want to see for myself to gauge what people are talking about, and compare to reality20:52
berndjbut searching youtube i get a slew of results titled "Trump suggests ..." and that's immediately a red flag to me20:53
AimHereWe should have a sweepstake as to how many bleach fatalities there will be in the next two weeks20:53
AimHereI'll go with '3'20:53
LjLhe didn't even mention bleach afaik20:53
LjLthat's not even the point even if he did20:53
AimHereDisinfectant then20:54
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 18:48 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Georgia businesses reopen cautiously as number of US deaths tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk120:54
LjLhe mentioned UV and talked about injecting disinfectant, and yes, it was posted as questions to his experts20:54
LjLthis is at minimum ridiculous; but while he didn't directly TELL people to do it, he's the president of the fucking united states of america and he should DEFINITELY know there is a risk of people actually trying these things if he speaks like that20:54
LjLhe doesn't, which is RECKLESS20:54
berndjhe should just not hold press conferences. problem solved20:55
LjLberndj, that would not be the worst idea he's had20:55
LjLalso why isn't the clip from Guardian in my youtube history20:55
berndjyeah i don't see him telling or even "suggesting" anything to anyone, he's just rambling about something he heard that he finds interesting, that's how it comes across to me20:57
LjLberndj, strange. well the clip is here https://youtu.be/QtgVxGkrX1Y?t=102 in case youtube wasn't helpful in searching for it, although the one i watched was not that one20:57
friedbatyeah, that's how it came across to me too.20:57
LjLsomething so absolutely idiotic that you don't have to be a doctor to know it makes no sense, or even anything CLOSE to a doctor20:57
friedbatbut then it gets hyped by the press and then we have people repeating it forever20:57
LjLit is utterly surreal that he'd say things like that20:57
berndji thought UV treatment of blood is a thing20:57
friedbatit is20:57
navonoda couple trumpets I know are denying he did say that20:58
friedbatphotopheresis20:58
navonodlike they always do20:58
navonoddude I saw him say that20:58
navonodin plain english20:58
LjL"HIT THE BODY WITH A TREMENDOUS ULTRAVIOLET OR OTHER POWERFUL LIGHT" is not "UV treatment of blood"20:58
LjLUVC bulbs can be bought on amazon20:58
navonod"yeah but he doesn't mean what he said.. you're ignorant about how he talks"20:58
LjLthey fit in a standard lighting fixture20:58
LjLand they'll make you blind in a second if you just try that20:58
LjLand also give you nice burns all over your skin20:58
friedbatberndj: interestingly there are also medical researchers studying the effect of ethanol washes for respiratory tract sars infections :)20:58
berndjso don't try it?20:59
LjLso if you're the POTUS definitely don't SAY IT20:59
berndjhe isn't telling anyone to go out and buy aquarium UV lamps or do anything20:59
AimHereberndj, but they'll do ti20:59
AimHere*it20:59
LjLthey'll do it and he should know, or at least his advisors should20:59
LjLand they probably do, but also can't stop him from saying shit all the time20:59
LjLbecause that's what he does21:00
AimHereJust as they dipped into their aquarium supplies when he suggested that chloroquinine or whatever it was gave him a good feeling about a miracle cure21:00
berndjyeah well in a country of 330M people there'll be someone who does something stupid no matter what he says21:00
navonodlike vote for trump21:00
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 18:56 UTC: (news): Trump tries to walk back speculation about injecting disinfectants to fight coronavirus, claims he was being sarcastic → https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/coronavirus-trump-tries-to-walk-back-disinfectant-suggestion-claims-sarcasm.html21:01
berndjAimHere, if it were president clinton and she told people to wear masks, there'd be some dumbasses who suffocated themselves from wearing 10 stacked masks too21:01
navonodwhataboutism isn't a valid arguement21:01
AimHereberndj, I seriously doubt that people would wear 10 stacked masks just because it's so ungainly.21:01
berndjthis isn't whataboutism21:01
AimHereAnd 'wear a mask' isn't actually bad advice21:01
navonodno one was talking about 'what xx would do'21:01
navonodwe're saying what he suggested is irresponsible and dangerous21:02
navonodif you can't see that, you are brainwashed21:02
berndjby that standard no president can say anything21:02
propertlybeing sarcastic has a president in function 21:02
AimHereberndj, Which previous president in all of US history has given medical advice that caused people to die?21:02
friedbatreality: trump told his researcher to think about how these findings can turn into therapies. non-reality: drumpf said drink bleach and all the deaths resulting from dummies with diy projects are his fault because orange man bad.21:03
AimHereI'm struggling to think of a precedent 21:03
berndjbecause when last did a US president have any reason to talk about medicine at all21:03
propertlyhe thought he was at the bar 21:03
berndjyeah, he's very casual, off-the-cuff like that21:04
propertlyspewing imbecilitys21:04
AimHereberndj, Fine. Name one instance where a US president gave advice on a technical matter for which they were unqualified and people took that advice and died as a result?21:04
AimHere(Other than barking orders to his subordinates to kill people - all Presidents did that)21:05
berndjrelax that to WHO and i can name a very recent example ("don't wear masks, they don't protect you etc.")21:05
friedbati actually focused on the presentation by the research guy. it was very interesting stuff. i was amazed at *how much* of a half-life decrease mere sunlight had.21:05
friedbatthey compared same temp, same humidity, just mimic's sunlight21:05
friedbatand it went from 1 hour to 1 minute i think. 60x reduction.21:06
navonodthose using circular logic generally fail to see/consider anything outside of that cycle21:06
BrainstormUpdates for US: +2814 cases (now 906112), +176 deaths (now 51130) since an hour ago — Michigan, US: +1350 cases (now 36641), +108 deaths (now 3085) since 23 hours ago — Peru: +734 cases (now 21648), +62 deaths (now 634) since a day ago21:06
AimHereWHO at least had some qualifications in that matter, and it is possible the scientific consensus changed 21:06
propertlyif he had any sense of honor he would resigned along time ago21:06
berndjwow, 1 hour is at the level of "almost hopeless"; 1 minute is at the level of "best case scenario"21:06
berndjAimHere: special pleading21:06
friedbatberndj: it has policy implications imo21:06
friedbathold events outdoors, for example, university classes21:07
friedbatopen-air stadiums might be ok for sporting events if you don't use every seat21:07
friedbatetc21:07
berndjit would have to be outdoors *in the sun*21:07
friedbatyes, during sunny days21:07
propertlyUSA the land of the mobster president21:07
berndjhmm yeah, interesting21:07
friedbatthis is not without precedent21:08
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:05 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYSE eyes reopening trading floor as US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk121:08
ubLIX"Using feedback, a standard tool in control engineering, we can manage our response to the novel coronavirus pandemic for maximum survival while containing the damage to our economies"  -  https://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/diagnostics/how-control-theory-can-help-control-covid1921:08
AimHereKennedy was a mobsters's son21:08
friedbatduring the 1918 spanish flu, universities often held class outdoors21:08
berndjdoes the UV kill the virus even when it's in the air? or only when on a surface?21:08
friedbatsurfaces, air, and saliva21:08
ubLIXtranslating control theory to socially observable dictums a different matter21:08
friedbatthey found sunlight inactivated covid-19 virus in aerosols too21:09
berndjubLIX, yeah, my country is moving to some "analogue response" lockdown thing, and i'm wondering about that too21:09
propertlyKennedy was a mobsters's son Lmao21:09
berndjloop bandwidth is awful once an already-inefficient government gets added to the feedback network21:10
berndjfriedbat, that is very, very encouraging21:10
propertlymob is the CIA21:11
friedbatyes, i feel a lot safer walking outdoors in sunlight than shopping in a grocery store21:11
propertlythat killed him21:11
friedbatberndj: also, it probably means we'll see a slowdown in infection rates in the northern hemisphere soon.21:12
propertlytrump is KKK21:12
friedbatand possibly the opposite in the southern hemisphere21:12
propertlyKKK = Fbi21:12
propertlyheil Trump21:13
ubLIXpropertly: stop this nonsense21:13
propertlyyou know its true21:13
ubLIXfriedbat: the research you've been alluding to, from the white house, none of it is published, is it?21:14
friedbatubLIX: a preliminary report was leaked21:14
BirossoAAAAAAAAAAA21:14
ubLIXpropertly: i know i don't care about your characterisations21:14
berndjfriedbat, in my own country with a significant informal economy, street traders are hit hard by not being able to trade, so if they're ok since they're out on the street in the sun, maybe they're not as much of a risk as the government (reasonable) assumed they were21:15
ubLIXfriedbat: doesn't sound very useful, though i can understand how it might seem comforting, to the extent a leaked document can be believed21:15
friedbatubLIX: it isn't just a leaked document. the document was leaked by the head of the research team presented his findings yesterday.21:16
friedbati have no reason to believe it's not true. do you?21:17
ubLIXhaven't seen it. got a link?21:17
berndji feel like the meaning of the word "leak" is shifting21:17
friedbatsorry, the document wasn't leaked by the head of research. the same findings were presented by him yesterday.21:17
berndjbecause that sounds a lot like "publishing"21:17
friedbatberndj: i say leaked because it wasn't dhs that released it but some reporter who got a copy and published it. let me find the link.21:18
berndjah ok, i guess that can still be a "leak"21:18
berndjand yeah, i'd love to glance through such a doc21:19
friedbatubLIX / berndj: https://www.scribd.com/document/456897616/DHSST21:20
berndji'll leak that some more to my other retooled-for-covid19 channels21:21
sternenmusik[m]<berndj "and yeah, i'd love to glance thr"> Read the quuran or Mein Kampf. 21:22
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 19:09 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump tries to backtrack on disinfectant remarks, claiming they were 'sarcastic': Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus ‘cure’ wrote to Trump this week Trump says disinfectant suggestion was sarcasm Trump signs latest coronavirus financial rescue bill Cuomo says coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CgUfXs21:22
ubLIXhmm. would rather authority put their name to it, published and including methodologies and estimation models21:28
BirossoYou're asking for too much.21:29
Birosso:(21:29
friedbatthe guy said this was a work in progress. remember, this isn't a university team. it's government people who study these things in the context of biological attacks21:29
friedbattheir lab was set up during the anthrax attacks21:29
friedbatso they're not trying to get something published in JAMA21:30
friedbatthey did partner with johns hopkins university for the aerosol tests though. the guy explained they have this huge drum where they can create aerosols and simulate all kinds of weather / climate conditions21:31
ubLIXbut without publication of methodology and discussion of their estimation-model, their findings can neither be assessed nor replicated; so you're just back to trusting words on the internet21:33
ubLIXyou might find it possible to trust those words in some degree, but it is not ideal21:33
berndjit may be better than nothing21:33
ubLIXsure, if you swap analysis of well described process with extensive and possibly inconclusive analysis of the source/motivation of the leak/discussion21:35
ubLIXit may be better than nothing21:35
berndjthe baseline isn't research approved by the scientist high priests; the baseline is not knowing anything21:36
BrainstormUpdates for US: +2869 cases (now 908981), +212 deaths (now 51342) since 32 minutes ago — New Jersey, US: +2171 cases (now 102196), +189 deaths (now 5617) since 18 hours ago — Tennessee, US: +460 cases (now 8726) since 23 hours ago21:36
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:33 UTC: (news): Trump tries to walk back speculation about injecting disinfectants to fight coronavirus, claims he was being sarcastic → https://is.gd/TWg9Zq21:36
ubLIXbut does reading that document cause you to "know" anything21:37
ubLIXsuggestive of the merits of further enquiry != know21:37
berndjadjusting bayesian priors == knowing something21:37
ubLIXi wonder if this adjusts any priors: https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/22/iowa-family-behind-reopen-covid-19-protests-popping-up-across-country/3005696001/21:39
berndjif you treat the epistemological universe as a binary containing "things we know" and "things we don't know", then yeah, maybe we don't know anything new. but the world isn't binary like that21:39
ubLIXfair21:39
ubLIXi guess i'm just feeling that if they have results from definitive methods, then they should publish21:41
berndjfriedbat, i (still) find it really surprising that the virus seems to be happier dry than humid21:43
berndjmaybe they don't have a mandate to publish - or worse, a mandate to NOT publish21:45
mefistofelesit's probably the latter21:46
mefistofeleswhy on earth they would want to keep this to themselves unless it has reasonable doubt it's valid21:46
berndjbecause maybe weapons labs aren't supposed to publish21:47
propertlychina got working covid vaccine21:48
livebrainhow do you know that ?21:49
livebrainthat china has a working vaccine21:50
propertlyits in the news21:50
berndj"working" does not equal "ready for widespread use"21:50
propertlyalready tested on monkeys21:50
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 19:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus test website reopens for bookings after 'significant demand' → https://is.gd/N1GvNb21:51
propertlyhuman trials have started21:51
ubLIXanother note on combining tech-based and pavement-pounding forms of contact tracing: https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/contact-tracing-technology-a-key-to-reopening.html21:51
ubLIX"The technology on its own really can’t do the job. We need people who can ask questions and try to understand the type of exposure that might have occurred because not all exposures are equal."21:51
ubLIXpropertly: "has the vaccine" is premature21:51
propertlyit worked on monkeys21:52
livebrainlast time i saw im not a monkey 21:52
ubLIXhence premature21:52
livebrainits good news for monkeys though21:52
berndjthat's cool and all, but that spells "we're on the right track" and not "in a month we can begin injecting billions of people with a vaccine"21:53
propertlyguess what you are a monkey too21:53
berndjno, monkeys are a different taxon than we fall into21:53
livebrainwell ppl dont seem to freak out when go out in public21:53
berndjwe're "great apes", not "monkeys"21:53
livebrainso im a bald. wearing glasses monkey21:53
propertlyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate21:54
berndjall monkeys are primates; all primates are not monkeys21:55
berndjpropertly, we still need to figure out if that vaccine causes other problems. "cross reactivity" or "interference" or whatever21:56
berndjbecause sars-cov-2 isn't the only virus in the world21:56
propertlyofcourse21:56
berndjso i'm glad this vaccine is "working" (in monkeys), but we're still a long way from being able to get a shot and be able to go to the bioscope again21:57
livebrainfrom testing to having a working vaccine21:57
livebrainits still a long way to go21:57
livebrainchina is not the only country that is testing 21:57
propertlyit worked on monkeys21:57
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:53 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYSE eyes reopening trading floor as US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk121:58
propertlythey infected the monkeys after vaccination21:58
propertlyno go for the virus21:58
LjLyes that is sort of how a vaccine is supposed to do its job22:00
LjLbut i think you successfully made the point that it works on some monkeys22:00
propertlyif even cats can get covid22:00
LjLthere are other countries currently testing vaccines on humans, fwiw22:00
propertlydid they worked on the monkeys?22:01
propertlyif not its just bs22:01
friedbatberndj: if you mean the dhs finding, they found the virus does better in dry than humid. not the other way around.22:02
propertlywell will see son  22:02
berndjfriedbat, yes, and i find that surprising. don't biological things usually prefer a wet environment?22:04
ubLIXi found that surprising too, but i'm not a biologist22:04
berndjeventually the virus has to infect a wet, warm interface after all22:04
friedbatberndj: i am not sure what the mechanisms at play are. but this is known with influenza that is more readily transmitted in drier climate22:05
propertlylike seeds?22:05
LjLpropertly, they wouldn't be testing them on humans if they hadn't seemed to work on animal models22:05
sternenmusik[m]5G is warm and dry. Perfect for CV2. 22:05
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:57 UTC: (news): Trump tries to walk back speculation about injecting disinfectants to fight coronavirus, claims he was being sarcastic → https://is.gd/TWg9Zq22:05
propertlyseemed to work =! actully worked22:05
propertlywell will see son  22:06
BrainstormUpdates for US: +3029 cases (now 912010), +111 deaths (now 51453) since 32 minutes ago — Illinois, US: +2724 cases (now 39658), +107 deaths (now 1795) since a day ago — Utah, US: +170 cases (now 3782) since 21 hours ago22:06
LjLi'm not your son, though22:06
propertlysoon22:07
sternenmusik[m]Soon. 22:07
sternenmusik[m]... 😂 22:07
ubLIX10 days old but perhaps still a useful overview for non-scientists, "SARS-CoV-2 Vaccines: Status Report": https://www.cell.com/immunity/pdf/S1074-7613(20)30120-5.pdf22:07
ubLIX^ propertly 22:08
friedbatberndj: here's a study on influenza & humidity -> https://www.pnas.org/content/106/9/324322:08
sternenmusik[m]Actully son propertly. 22:08
ubLIXsternenmusik[m]: too much nonsense. will you stop?22:09
LjL"The CFR is disproportionallyhigh in Italy (currently 7.3%)" ← such optimism in 10-day-old paper, ubLIX22:09
LjLbeep_[m]... what?22:10
friedbatberndj: apparently relative (or absolute) humidity affects things in two ways: decreased transmission (droplets fall faster to the ground) and reduced survival (virus inactivates faster with higher humidity)22:11
beep_[m]Just thoughts22:11
LjLwater is a powerful solvent22:12
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 20:08 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYSE eyes reopening trading floor as US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk122:12
sternenmusik[m]<ubLIX "sternenmusik: too much nonsense."> Yes. 22:12
mefistofelespropertly: no, China doesn't have a working vaccine, they are in phase II of human trials22:13
mefistofelesso that means basically an expanded clinical trial with different age groups and so on22:13
mefistofeleswhy was propertly muted?22:14
ubLIXbecause he will reply to you with "yes, but the monkeys"22:15
mefistofelesubLIX: ok, but the monkeys never muted him22:15
mefistofeles;)22:15
mefistofeleswe will not get these confused people any less confused by muting them that fast, they wasn't asked to stop or warned in any way, was they?22:18
mefistofelesweren't*22:18
mefistofelesfreaking singular they, still trying to get used to22:18
ubLIXas you wish22:19
ubLIXoh, it's left22:19
mefistofelesyes, they left22:19
ubLIXseemed to me to have demonstrated well enough its incapacity or unintention to make sense22:21
Sinovachttps://www.livescience.com/experimental-covid19-vaccine-protects-monkeys.html22:22
berndjseemed trollish22:22
ubLIXindeed, berndj 22:22
berndjnot just confused22:22
friedbatone thing that is being observed lately are clotting complications. have you heard of this?22:23
friedbatpeople are getting blood clots all over, in including brain strokes.22:23
mefistofelesberndj: indeed22:23
mefistofelesbut muting without warning doesn't really solve anything, from my experience it makes it worse22:24
ubLIXand not just older people, friedbat 22:24
berndjfriedbat, i'm picking up a lot of chatter about erythrocyte stuff lately22:24
mefistofelesfriedbat: I read that, yes22:24
tinwhiskersWelcome back Sinovac (propertly). Please don't just keep repeating the same thing. Did you have a point?22:24
mefistofelesfriedbat: I have yet to see a scientific study/report on that22:24
friedbatyes, not only old people. in fact the story i read suggested they're seeing strokes in younger (otherwise healthy) patients22:25
mefistofelesfriedbat: yes, but again, absolute numbers don't really say much here22:25
berndjmaybe because they're locked down and getting thromboses from all the sitting?22:26
friedbatberndj: speaking of erythrocyte, i wonder if sars2 attacks the blood22:26
friedbatit could explain the hypoxia if it hits hemoglobin22:26
berndjyeah, but plain old fashioned lung rektage also explains hypoxia, no?22:26
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 20:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus test website reopens for bookings after 'significant demand' → https://is.gd/N1GvNb22:26
friedbatberndj: the lung wreckage is an inflammatory response. what if the hypoxia comes from the blood problem and then the lungs are forced to overcompensante (no effective O2 exchange) and that causes the lung response?22:27
mefistofelesfriedbat: I don't think erythrocytes express ACE2, so it's not likely, but there are still other receptors that could allow it22:28
mefistofelessuch as T-cless getting infected by other receptors22:28
mefistofelescells*22:28
berndjfriedbat, i don't see how lungs having to work harder would cause an inflammatory response?22:28
berndjmefistofeles, do erythrocytes express *anything*?22:28
friedbatberndj: there is a lot of literature of pulmonary problems (including pneumonia, edema, etc) from high altitude sickness (where the blood carries less O2)22:29
mefistofelesberndj: I know they express a lot of things when infected with things, but not sure in other conditions22:29
berndjthey're basically "dead cells" aren't they? no cell nucleus in adults or something?22:30
tinwhiskersSinovac: there's quite a bit of testing after monkey trials before you can really say the vaccine is safe. For example it could trigger antibody dependent enhancement to some people who have previously experienced another virus. The last thing we need with the current antivaxer movement is a vaccine that hasn't been tested properly and kills people.22:30
friedbati'm not saying this is happening here, just tossing out the possibility.22:30
mefistofelesberndj: they do, actually22:30
mefistofelesnow that I remember, at least the Duffy antigen they have to express22:30
mefistofeleswhich is related to malaria infection22:30
ecksever heard about this thing called blood groups22:31
mefistofelesLjL: yes, high altitude pulmonary edema22:31
Sinovacantivaxer can die from covid to make point22:31
mefistofelesecks: ah of course22:31
LjLtinwhiskers, you served him this ball. the last thing we need *in general* is a vaccine that hasn't been tested properly and kills people. who cares about antivaxers or not... we certainly need to make this vaccine move faster than usual, but it certainly shouldn't end up making a bad situation worse22:32
tinwhiskersSinovac: so there's several vaccines in testing now and we have just as much hope for every one of them that the testing will go well, but let's not place all our trust in one particular vaccine candidate yet22:33
mefistofelesthere are dozens (or maybe hundreds) of vaccine candidates being developed right now22:34
mefistofelesyesterday I shared the list from the WHO22:34
mefistofelesshouldn't be hard to find22:34
Sinovaccovid can alter the blood cells to the point of being attacked by the immune system the same way has if they come from another blood group?22:36
berndjand every person infected with the virus is making their very own idiosyncratic endogenous vaccine22:37
friedbatobviously vaccine development is important. but it's really a long-term issue. i mean, it's good to know they're working on it, but we won't have one for 1.5 years or more.22:37
mefistofelesSinovac: don't think so, hasn't been observed either22:37
tinwhiskersIt can cause a cytokine storm which does cause the body to attack healthy cells so it's similar in some ways22:37
friedbatberndj: and there are now reports of recoveries with minimal antibody development22:37
mefistofelesfriedbat: true, even 1.5 years would be a record22:37
friedbatmefistofeles: agreed22:38
Sinovacthats the tcells going beserk22:38
berndjfriedbat, yeah, i was wondering earlier, can antibodies even "see" a respiratory tract infection?22:38
friedbatberndj: that's how flu vaccines work22:38
berndji thought i saw john campbell mention that there's no virus in the blood??22:38
LjLhow can there be no virus in the blood22:39
berndjso how do the antibodies get to where they need to be?22:39
LjLhow can it impact the liver, the kidneys, etc etc with no virus in the blood22:39
berndjLjL, i don't know, just quoting something i half-heard22:39
friedbatit has to be in the blood22:39
mefistofelesthere's virus in the blood22:40
mefistofelesyes22:40
berndjwhy does it "have to" be, as a general rule anyway?22:40
friedbatwhich is why some people were worried about possible bloodborne (ie mosquito vector)22:40
LjLi find it odd. however, i don't remember where *i* heard that, indeed, the immune system is not too active in the respiratory tract... i only remember it was something about vaccines for this22:40
friedbatthat would suck22:40
friedbatif it were like zika that way22:40
LjLbut i can't even remember if it was something i heard or something i read :(22:40
LjLi seem to have a lot of difficulties "placing" memories22:40
friedbatwe're finding out a lot22:41
berndjLjL, i know there are some immunoprivileged domains, but i don't recall the respiratory system being one of them22:41
ArsaneritIt would be nice if herd immunity could be reached sooner than expected.22:41
friedbatso now they suspect that it attacks the blood. and also, they suspect it attacks the nervous system (which is consistent with peopel losing the sense of smell)22:41
LjLberndj, no, not as far as being immunoprivileged, but it's pretty much "outside" the body22:41
berndjLjL, oh man me too, i'd absolutely suck as an academic for that reason22:41
friedbatfucking virus22:41
berndjall my papers would end like "References: 1. I dunno man, i found it somewhere in my brain"22:42
mefistofelesT-celss do get infected22:42
mefistofelescells*22:42
berndjat what *rate*?22:42
mefistofelesbut the virus is not able to reproduce there22:43
mefistofelesso it basically just degrades there22:43
berndjare there in fact any types of cell that the virus steadfastly *won't* infect?22:43
mefistofelesplenty, erythrocytes so far have not seen to be infected22:43
berndji'm just wondering if some of this is like radioactivity. our detection technology is so sensitive that *everything* is "radioactive". does that mean we should worry about eating this "radioactive" banana? no22:47
NoImNotNineVoltobligatory radiation chart: https://xkcd.com/radiation/22:47
NoImNotNineVolt2 blue boxes = 1 banana22:47
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 20:43 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: A domani → https://is.gd/cTMI6U22:48
friedbatit's amazing how radioactive tobacco plants are.22:48
NoImNotNineVoltthey are?22:48
LjLberndj, it might have actually been on youtube videos about Ebola, so in that case it would have been mentioned in general, not for COVID-19 in particular (and Ebola isn't a respiratory tract virus so i can't quite place why i think that's where i've heard it anyway)22:48
mefistofelesNoImNotNineVolt: hah that's a nice one22:49
NoImNotNineVolthow many bananas-worth of radiation is there in a tobacco plant?!22:49
friedbatyeah, i forget how it all works but both the fertilizer used and the surrounding environment make tobacco plant produce polonium-21022:50
friedbati wonder if we could drop lung cancer rates from smoking just by using cleaner tobacco22:50
NoImNotNineVoltthey don't produce it, they just "distill" it out of the soil.22:51
NoImNotNineVoltheavy element uptake is a thing for many plants.22:51
berndjsearch keyword: phytomining22:51
NoImNotNineVolttrying to read through https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672370/22:51
friedbatyeah, they absorb the radon and then the decay byproduct polonium-210 gives you all kinds of lung crabs22:52
NoImNotNineVoltTakizawa et al. [15] reported that the range of 210Po contained in the tobacco grands in Japan varied from 13.0 to 20.1 Bq kg−1 (mean 15.4 Bq kg−1)22:52
LjL%title https://twitter.com/arimakio/status/123914921426694963222:52
BrainstormLjL: From twitter.com: Ari MäkiÖ su Twitter: "How to tell your 4 year old why we wash our hands with soap: #COVIDー19 #washyourhands #staysmartandhealthy… "22:52
LjL(just kinda cute)22:52
NoImNotNineVoltand then i guess to go from bq to sv it depends on method of ingestion..22:53
friedbatyou also get lead-210 from the radon but polonium-210 is an alpha emitter so it's more worrisome22:53
friedbatis all that gone from vaping cartridges?22:54
NoImNotNineVoltThe collective committed effective dose resulting from the use of cigarettes produced in Brazil per year was estimated to be 1.5x104 man Sv, considering an annual production of 5x108 kg of cigarettes in Brazil and the committed effective dose of 0.16 mSv y−1 of cigarette smoking.22:54
NoImNotNineVoltthat might be enough to convert to bananas...22:54
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 20:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYSE eyes reopening trading floor as US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk122:55
friedbatNoImNotNineVolt: can you do the conversion? would be interesting. and also important to know before trying to smoke a plantain.22:57
NoImNotNineVolti tried and it wasn't adding up. too lazy to try again. sorry :P22:58
NoImNotNineVolti quit smoking a few years ago otherwise i'd be more motivated :P22:58
berndjhow do you get the alpha emission from the cigarette (where the tobacco leaves are) into your lungs (where only the smoke it)?22:59
mefistofelesLjL: that's genius23:00
friedbatthe smoke has polonium-21023:00
pynahuh neat23:00
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 20:53 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump tries to backtrack on disinfectant remarks, claiming they were 'sarcastic': Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus ‘cure’ wrote to Trump this week Trump says disinfectant suggestion was sarcasm Trump signs latest coronavirus financial rescue bill Cuomo says coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CgUfXs23:02
berndjfriedbat, but how? i'd expect high-Z atoms to stay behind in the ash, not get incorporated into partial-combustion products23:02
friedbatberndj: i don't know23:03
friedbati am 1000% sure this has been studied by thousands of people though. i bet you have luck with google.23:03
Arsaneritthat's a lot of %23:06
pynahmm, how many tide pods should i eat to protect myself from cigarettes23:08
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 21:04 UTC: (news): Coronavirus test website reopens for bookings after 'significant demand' → https://is.gd/N1GvNb23:09
pynaevery trump press conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_83MEuLoz9Y23:10
SinovacT-cells23:14
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 21:09 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump tries to backtrack on disinfectant remarks, claiming they were 'sarcastic': Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus ‘cure’ wrote to Trump this week Trump says disinfectant suggestion was sarcasm Trump signs latest coronavirus financial rescue bill Cuomo says coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CgUfXs23:17
datamanNBC put out the disinfectant commentary, not POTUS23:19
datamanwatch the video, he doesnt say it at all23:19
datamanhe talks about light as a disinfectant23:19
datamansomething well known and long used23:19
datamanhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4783265/23:19
navonodthis convo again?23:20
navonodreally23:20
LjL%title https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3081330/coronavirus-covid-19-us-earlier-first-thought-and23:28
BrainstormLjL: From www.scmp.com: Coronavirus: Covid-19 was in US earlier than first thought. Here’s why that’s important to know | South China Morning Post23:28
LjLi thought this was being investigated but not ascertained yet, apparently it has23:28
datamanI was in Japan in December and got sick. The police were handing out tissue packs in front of the hotel in Kyoto.23:30
datamanNot a normal thing for police to do; in any country.23:30
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:26 UTC: Citing a high risk of death, researchers cut chloroquine coronavirus study short over safety concerns: Scientists say the findings should "serve to curb the exuberant use" of the drug, which has been touted by President Trump as a potential "game changer" in the fight against the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/xUkqKf23:31
LjLdataman, i don't recall unquieting you23:31
datamanDoubt you did, you're too scared of what I have to say about the fake pandemic.23:32
mefistofeles:/23:32
eckswhat about the real pandemic?23:33
Sinovac President Trump what covid victims to die fast so to get back to business as usual23:33
Sinovacwhant23:33
datamanWe have viral outbreaks this bad or worse every year23:33
mefistofelesdataman: not at all23:33
datamanwe just call them the flu because no one gets tested, even if they go into the ER23:33
datamanthe ER wont test you if you have flu symptoms, they treat you and send you home, 99% are better before results come in anyway23:34
Sinovacthere was no test23:34
mefistofelesthe excess of deaths caused by this one are up to 70% or so, in european countries23:34
Sinovacwho cares flu is good for business23:34
datamancold and flu are nomenclature, if its mild it's the cold - if it's bad it's the flu23:34
ecksfake deaths!23:34
Sinovacsells drugs23:34
datamaninfluenza is a virus that's associated with bad sickness, there are many others - like coronavirus23:34
nixonixWe found 198 physician deaths from COVID-19, but complete details were missing for 49 individuals. The average age of the physicians that died was 63.4 years (range 28 to 90 years) and the median age was 66 years of age. Ninety percent of the deceased physicians were male (175/194). https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.05.20054494v123:34
nixonix%title23:35
Brainstormnixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Physician Deaths from Corona Virus Disease (COVID-19) | medRxiv23:35
LjLat least he gave me the opportunity to show the initial quiet was quiet warranted23:35
Sinovaches from the original covid-18 channel23:36
LjLwhat23:36
Sinovac#COVID-19 vs ##coronavirus23:37
LjLhe's not in ##coronavirus23:37
Sinovac#COVID-19 vs ##covid-1923:37
Sinovacsorry23:37
LjLcs info ##covid-1923:37
Sinovac# = official23:37
LjLso that's the "original" by virtue of being in the wrong namespace and created after this one?23:37
LjLno23:37
Sinovac## not official23:38
LjLno23:38
Sinovac?23:38
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:33 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: California launches meal delivery program for seniors, US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk123:38
LjLthat's not what they mean23:38
ragerjust join Matrix and have a better itme23:38
BrainstormUpdates for US: +3528 cases (now 915538), +239 deaths (now 51692) since an hour ago — Brazil: +1922 cases (now 52995), +263 deaths (now 3670) since 5 hours ago — Pennsylvania, US: +1497 cases (now 40149), +51 deaths (now 1736) since 5 hours ago23:39
LjLand unless the founder of #COVID-19 actually has some kind of open source of community-driven project called COVID-19, or they're actually the WHO, they're simply occupying the # namespace without really being entitled to it. which happens pretty commonly, but doesn't make anything official.23:39
LjLrager, sure, and get messages about half an hour later! :P23:39
Sinovacmessages have to go thru censorship 1st23:40
ragercome now, the delay is more like 2-10s on the bridge at worst23:40
ragerI've been meaning to get my own bridge setup, beeen too lazy23:40
bin_bashnuke the bridge from orbit23:40
LjLSinovac, do you want to be living proof of it?23:42
LjLrager, yeah what's more confusing is when they come out of order or some are just missed, though23:42
pyna"< ecks> what about the real pandemic?" i lol'd23:44
ragerI've had a mostly fine experience23:44
rageronly problem rn is one channel's totally unusable because it's doubling everything :\23:44
NoImNotNineVoltLjL: that channel is poorly moderated.23:45
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 21:38 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US Covid-19 death toll passes 50,000: Sweden reports highest number of new cases; WHO launches €7.5bn fundraising bid; Russian cases jump by more than 5,000 in a day → https://is.gd/8YgT7t23:45
LjLrager, oh?23:45
LjLNoImNotNineVolt, i feel i am not surprised23:46
mefistofelesI feel most popular/active channels in freenode become poorly moderated with enough time23:46
NoImNotNineVolt(i tried to engage dataman in rational debate in the other poorly-moderated channel, but it wasn't possible to stay on topic)23:47
nixonixapr 16 article, about deaths in lombardy and austria (above mortality average numbers): https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries23:48
nixonix%title23:48
Brainstormnixonix: From www.economist.com: Covid-19 data - Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries | Graphic detail | The Economist23:48
mefistofelesnixonix: yes, that's a good one23:48
mefistofelesthere's also from the NYT with other countries23:49
mefistofelesalso one*23:49
NoImNotNineVolteuromomo does a great job of tracking mortality in europe23:49
NoImNotNineVoltah, just saw the economist link is backed by euromomo data23:50
mefistofelesyes, sadly they don't have Germany data23:50
LjLeuromomo just revamped their website23:50
LjLmefistofeles, bit confused about that. their older site, i thought it had germany, even though it still had... Hesse? separately23:51
mefistofelesLjL: Berlin and Hesse23:51
LjLNoImNotNineVolt, how does the economist get data about Lombardy or Madrid specifically though? the euromomo website only has country-level data, with like two exceptions23:51
nixonixyeah, graphs are good in it, but too bad the table has mixed in data from march, when there wasnt that many sars-2 fatalities at that time in many countries. and variance between years messes the results. prob is, that in many countries data wasnt available from most of april23:52
nixonixthis seems to have mostly stuff from that nyt article, but also refers to that economist article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8241943/Unexplained-extra-deaths-coronavirus-death-toll-FAR-higher-official-figures.html23:53
nixonix%title23:53
Brainstormnixonix: From www.dailymail.co.uk: Unexplained extra deaths show coronavirus death toll is FAR higher than official figures | Daily Mail Online23:53
LjLand they only managed to add FAR as uppercase scareword!23:53
mefistofelesLjL: so just a small ortion of the info, and I don't even think they have that Hesse or Berlin information correctly, since that's not showing any change with the virus, and I don't think that's the case23:53
ubLIXthe footer on the economist article: "Sources: ECDC; ISTAT; Ministero della Salute; Instituto de Salud Carlos III; Datadista; INSEE; Santé Publique France; ONS; Centraal Bureau van Statistiek; CDC; New York City Health; Provinsi DKI Jakarta; Statistiska Centralbyran; Epistat; Sciensano; Statistik Austria; Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality"23:53
mefistofeles*portion23:53
nixonixi think in nyc they estimated extra mortality to be over 5k when the official number was just over 15k (no source handy)23:54
nbmy state's governor just ordered that elective procedures may begin Monday morning23:54
nixonixafter they had added those few thousands, i think a bit over a week ago (in nyc)23:54
Sinovacmaybe thers another virus helping covid23:55
mefistofelesnixonix: daily mail :/ I suggest not using that as any source of information23:55
nbpositive cases keep going up, but i think that is because there is more testing23:55
mefistofelesnb: yes, most likely23:56
Sinovaccould be that other virus is at play making covid deadlier?23:56
nixonixmefistofeles: it has sources to nyt and economist23:56
mefistofelesthere's a really high correlation between testing and cases, and so far, results from antibodies tests suggest that there are much more cases than expected23:57
mefistofelesnixonix: yes, but the headline is ... problematic, to say the least23:57
nixonixtabloids make money with them23:57
nbmefistofeles, although i'm curious if the rumors of the antibody tests cross-reacting with other coronaviruses skew the results much23:58
mefistofelesnixonix: exactly, I would avoid tabloids in any of this23:58
nixonixdo as you like23:58
mefistofelesnixonix: relax23:58
SinovacI wouldt be surprised that most people already had covid23:59
mefistofelesnb: the antibodies tests are pretty specific, not real reson to believe they are not having a good accuracy23:59
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: California launches meal delivery program for seniors, US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk123:59
mefistofelesSinovac: yes, that's likely... not sure if "most", but many more than thought, surely23:59
LjLSinovac, i would, considering that's not what antibody tests that were performed in NY or Germany showed23:59
Sinovacwouldnt23:59

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