Arsanerit | goodnight | 00:02 |
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Arsanerit | livebrain: it certainly affects poor people working at airports... | 00:03 |
Arsanerit | goodnight | 00:03 |
livebrain | it also affects low paying jobs in the service industry that relies on "instagram tourism" | 00:05 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: California reports 'deadliest day' yet, global lockdowns ease → https://is.gd/HOjjL9 | 00:05 |
ytlyv8 | https://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/degrees.php | 00:14 |
ytlyv8 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_temperature | 00:15 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 22:09 UTC: Hopes dashed as coronavirus drug remdesivir fails first trial: There had been hope that remdesivir could treat Covid-19, but its first study proved unsuccessful. → https://is.gd/6fFcJf | 00:20 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1516 cases (now 877672), +88 deaths (now 49736) since an hour ago — Sao Paulo, Brazil: +826 cases (now 16740), +211 deaths (now 1345) since 20 hours ago — Florida, US: +816 cases (now 29648) since 6 hours ago | 00:23 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:28 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: California reports 'deadliest day' yet, global lockdowns ease → https://is.gd/HOjjL9 | 00:34 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 22:36 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Nate Silver su Twitter: "US daily numbers via @COVID19Tracking: Newly-reported deaths: Today: 1,911 Yesterday: 2,108 One week ago (4/17): 2,136 Newly-reported cases: T: 32K Y: 27K 4/17: 31K Newly-reported tests: T: 193K Y: 311K 4/17: 158K Share of positive tests: T: 17% Y: 9% 4/17: 19%" → https://is.gd/Z0A1CN | 00:42 |
mefistofeles | hope this channel "dying" means the virus is as well :P haha | 00:44 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:43 UTC: (news): US airlines are losing money for the first time in years as coronavirus ends travel boom → https://is.gd/ALnCx6 | 00:49 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +1345 cases (now 153129), +171 deaths (now 5575) since 3 hours ago — US: +736 cases (now 878408) since 33 minutes ago — Nebraska, US: +311 cases (now 2124) since 9 hours ago | 00:53 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:52 UTC: Vice President Mike Pence says 16 states have released plans to lift coronavirus restrictions: The administration is now also calling on states to resume elective surgeries, which were largely suspended as health systems sought to boost capacity for an expected surge of Covid-19 patients, Pence announced. → https://is.gd/11LPvt | 00:56 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 23:02 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Ultimo aggiornamento per la sera → https://is.gd/ZGvohb | 01:03 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:14 UTC: Australia coronavirus update latest: NSW to open testing to anyone with symptoms – live news: The national toll from Covid-19 has risen to 75 following the death of a fourth resident at a western Sydney nursing home. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 01:18 |
minitrue | lol, | 01:23 |
python476 | nice nick minitrue | 01:23 |
PlanckWalk | My area (in Australia) is open to testing for anyone with symptoms, but the Prime Minister and CMO each slandered people who tested positive, so a prevailing opinion is "fuck em, I'll just self isolate if I have COVID" | 01:31 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:25 UTC: (news): US airlines are losing money for the first time in years as coronavirus ends travel boom → https://is.gd/ALnCx6 | 01:33 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:29 UTC: Australia coronavirus update latest: NSW to open testing to anyone with symptoms – live news: The national toll from Covid-19 has risen to 75 following the death of a fourth resident at a western Sydney nursing home. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 01:40 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:41 UTC: Vice President Mike Pence says 16 states have unveiled plans to lift coronavirus restrictions: The administration is now also calling on states to resume elective surgeries, which were largely suspended as health systems sought to boost capacity for an expected surge of Covid-19 patients, Pence announced. → https://is.gd/11LPvt | 01:47 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:41 UTC: Australia coronavirus update latest: NSW to open testing to anyone with symptoms – live news: The national toll from Covid-19 has risen to 75 following the death of a fourth resident at a western Sydney nursing home. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 01:55 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1022 cases (now 879430) since an hour ago — Texas, US: +449 cases (now 22393) since 7 hours ago — Georgia (US), US: +371 cases (now 21883) since 7 hours ago | 02:09 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:59 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: US House passes $484bn coronavirus relief bill to fund small businesses and hospitals → https://is.gd/2KI1ad | 02:09 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:19 UTC: HHS official plans to file whistleblower complaint over coronavirus drug pressure related to Trump and ouster: Rick Bright claims he was dismissed from leading a federal agency dealing with the coronavirus outbreak after resisting pressure to expand the use of drugs promoted by President Donald Trump. → https://is.gd/9QE5M8 | 02:24 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 00:22 UTC: Global COVID Cases For 24APR20: (w/Update UTC in Flair) | Source: Wikipedia | Larger Version | Notes || | Day to Day | Update Figures | Up + Down _ || → https://is.gd/c4tYS4 | 02:31 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:29 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Trump says federal distancing guidelines could extend into summer → https://is.gd/WAJowZ | 02:38 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:44 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update latest: national death toll rises to 77 – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 02:53 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:01 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 40 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 03:07 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Mexico: +1089 cases (now 11633), +99 deaths (now 1069) since 12 hours ago — US: +774 cases (now 880204), +76 deaths (now 49845) since an hour ago — Japan: +418 cases (now 12368) since 12 hours ago | 03:09 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:13 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update latest: national death toll rises to 77 – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 03:22 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 01:26 UTC: ljl-covid: Add prepring on mask decontamination and reuse → https://is.gd/pebx7T | 03:29 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: California Gov. Newsom Signs Executive Order To Prevent Stimulus Money From Being Taken By Debt Collectors (10069 votes) | https://redd.it/g6trzk | 03:31 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 01:40 UTC: ljl-covid: Add covid19india.org, most likely the best tracker for India → https://is.gd/I6oQ17 | 03:44 |
LjL | "Suppose that we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light," Trump said from the White House podium. "Suppose you can bring the light inside the body, either through the skin or in some other way." | 03:57 |
LjL | "Is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning?" Trump asked his experts at the briefing. "It sounds interesting to me, so we'll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That's pretty powerful." | 03:57 |
LjL | source: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-wants-bring-light-inside-the-body-to-kill-coronavirus-2020-4 or https://deadline.com/2020/04/coronavirus-donald-trump-briefing-washington-post-1202916609/ for a slightly different transcription | 03:58 |
LjL | comments itself i suppose | 03:58 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:50 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 40 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 03:58 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 02:08 UTC: ljl-covid: Consolidate Italy links → https://is.gd/n5ep9T | 04:13 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 02:18 UTC: Add yet another tracker, probably spinoff of Covid19India: This one doesn't have subnational data but it indicates amount of serious patients for most countries, which isn't found in many other trackers → https://is.gd/zj6Uy1 | 04:20 |
pyna | donald jong trump | 04:25 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:18 UTC: Australia coronavirus update latest: national death toll rises to 78 – live news: WA authorities report cruise ship passenger becomes 8th person to die in that state, as NSW opens Covid-19 testing to anyone with symptoms. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 04:28 |
pyna | trump's gonna bring the light into a bunch of bodies when he presses the button | 04:31 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, was it with you that i was semi-jokingly suggesting mass exhumations to estimate original R0? https://www.businessinsider.com/california-gov-newsom-orders-covid-19-autopsies-back-to-december-2020-4?IR=T | 04:33 |
tinwhiskers | Actually it was you who suggested it but I was there | 04:33 |
tinwhiskers | Perhaps someone had suggested it to you earlier, but no I didn't suggest it. | 04:34 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, i said "i was semi-jokingly suggesting" | 04:34 |
tinwhiskers | Oh, yes. Sorry misread. Yes | 04:35 |
tinwhiskers | Good call :-) | 04:35 |
LjL | should be interesting. i think in Italy doctors are reviewing some December cases but not really suggesting to actually perform autopsies | 04:36 |
LjL | (probably a bit too busy for that still) | 04:36 |
ytlyv8 | vote for trump or no cure lol | 04:36 |
ytlyv8 | lol | 04:36 |
LjL | uhm | 04:36 |
pyna | lol the utter hackjob of this sf future | 04:38 |
pyna | there are dan brown books more plausible than this | 04:39 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 02:20 UTC: worldnews: Trump directs experts to see whether they can 'bring light inside the body' to kill the coronavirus, even as his own expert shuts him down → https://is.gd/B333Xr | 04:42 |
iz | lol, he also suggested that maybe we could inject bleach or alcohol inside people to help kill the virus | 04:44 |
iz | said the medical ppl would have to check that out, but it sounds like a good idea to him | 04:44 |
iz | https://youtu.be/QtgVxGkrX1Y?t=126 | 04:46 |
friedbat | https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.12444 | 04:49 |
LjL | iz, do you think we are to effect some more people killing themselves with, say, UV light this time? just like some did with chloroquine next time Trump "had an idea"? | 04:49 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:44 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 40 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 04:49 |
LjL | this seem... lower quality that other preprints i've read recently | 04:52 |
iz | hopefully not | 04:57 |
iz | (from the country that had a tide pod eating meme) | 04:58 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:05 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update latest: Australia coronavirus latest: Scott Morrison to provide update after national cabinet meeting – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 05:11 |
rager | Is Europe a continent? I think not. | 05:13 |
LjL | it is traditionally considered one, but geologically that doesn't make a lot of sense | 05:14 |
LjL | why does it matter, anyway? | 05:14 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +6505 cases (now 886709), +398 deaths (now 50243) since 2 hours ago — Brazil: +544 cases (now 50036) since 6 hours ago — Guayas, Ecuador: +394 cases (now 7502) since 2 days ago | 05:20 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:20 UTC: Australia coronavirus latest: Scott Morrison provides update after national cabinet meeting – live news: WA authorities report cruise ship passenger becomes eighth person to die in that state, as NSW opens Covid-19 testing to anyone with symptoms. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 05:33 |
berndj | are there any diseases known to be transmitted by people simply breathing normally? | 05:37 |
JamGobbar | politics | 05:37 |
pyna | life | 05:37 |
LjL | this is what some doctors think of Trump's musings on what could be effective https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/trump-coronavirus-treatment-disinfectant | 05:38 |
LjL | berndj, sure | 05:38 |
pyna | there needs to be a mouthbreather joke but im not up to the challenge | 05:38 |
LjL | berndj, anything that mentions "respiratory droplets" basically includes normal breathing. i'll take the easy ball and say measles. | 05:39 |
friedbat | berndj: it's believed that covid-19 is transmitted in normal exhalation droplets (that's why asymptomatic people are spreading) | 05:39 |
friedbat | other diseases include tuberculosis | 05:39 |
friedbat | there are many | 05:39 |
pyna | anyone thinking of trump in any situation has already lost the game | 05:40 |
berndj | LjL, oh? i thought you needed to cough or sneeze or speak or something to make respiratory droplets come out of your orifices | 05:40 |
berndj | friedbat, i don't buy the "that's why" part, not at face value anyway | 05:40 |
LjL | "A respiratory droplet is a particle consisting mostly of water that is large enough to fall to the ground rapidly after being produced, often defined as having a diameter greater than 5 μm. Respiratory droplets can be produced naturally as a result of breathing, talking, sneezing, coughing, or vomiting, or can be artificially generated through aerosol-generating medical procedures, flushing toilets, or other domestic activities. " | 05:40 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 03:35 UTC: ljl-covid: Add "opinion" paper on airborne transmissibility → https://is.gd/kgJnFk | 05:41 |
berndj | i feel like one would have to exhale pretty hard to be expelling droplets?? | 05:41 |
friedbat | berndj: they've measured respiratory droplets in normal exhalations, when speaking, when coughing, etc. | 05:41 |
berndj | friedbat, yeah, i specifically want to exclude the more violent expulsions of air | 05:42 |
friedbat | like i said, they've looked at the entire spectrum | 05:42 |
LjL | i don't feel like that. i'd tentatively feel like they would *spread further* by breathing "violently" or by other "violent" actions such as coughing. | 05:42 |
berndj | not interested in speaking/singing/coughing/sneezing | 05:42 |
berndj | LjL, fair enough, nothing is a binary | 05:43 |
friedbat | also i imagine even "normal breathing" has a spectrum. someone who has copd and breathes heavily might exhale more droplets than someone who has great lungs. | 05:43 |
friedbat | someone who just walked up 3 flights of steps might be exhaling more droplets than someone idling in a chair | 05:44 |
berndj | good call. any turbulence = opportunity for droplets to come off | 05:44 |
berndj | next stage of the question: mouth vs nose breathing | 05:45 |
friedbat | mouth probably a lot more | 05:45 |
friedbat | but i have no science, just educated guessing. | 05:46 |
berndj | depends how congested your nose is at the time? | 05:46 |
berndj | and where are these plain-breathing droplets generated? throat? lungs? (how deep in the lungs?) | 05:47 |
friedbat | i'm sure there's a lot of research on this. i forget where i saw some study on exhalation droplets. maybe mit? | 05:47 |
friedbat | thanks for the question, it's interesting. certainly more interesting than "orange man bad" | 05:47 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:35 UTC: Australia coronavirus latest: Scott Morrison provides update after national cabinet meeting – live news: WA authorities report cruise ship passenger becomes eighth person to die in that state, as NSW opens Covid-19 testing to anyone with symptoms. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 05:48 |
berndj | i was wondering about similar issues in the opposite direction a few weeks ago. whether mouth-breathers or nose-breathers fared better | 05:49 |
berndj | i.e. does breathing habit change whether, or how severely *you* get infected | 05:50 |
friedbat | berndj: here's an interesting paper on this | 05:53 |
friedbat | https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/jam.1997.10.105 | 05:53 |
friedbat | they compare mouth breathing, nose breathing, coughing, and talking | 05:54 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:49 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 43 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 05:55 |
berndj | journal of aerosol medicine - wow, some specialized journal | 06:00 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:52 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 06:02 |
minitrue | https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/23/pers-a23.html | 06:18 |
berndj | ugh, more mindreading | 06:19 |
berndj | friedbat, yeah, thanks for the doi, interesting (and scary!) reading | 06:20 |
friedbat | welcome | 06:27 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Trump suggests 'injection' of disinfectant to beat coronavirus and 'clean' the lungs (10654 votes) | https://redd.it/g6xpii | 06:38 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:45 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 43 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 06:53 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:48 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 07:08 |
pyna | coronawalrus is just terrible | 07:11 |
pyna | has trump halted emigration yet | 07:13 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:59 UTC: 'We knew that the foreign workers would be a stress point:' Singapore diplomat on battling coronavirus: On April 1, Singapore had just around 1,000 cases, but in less than a month, it has spiked to more than 10,000. The majority of the explosion in cases has been attributed to its migrant worker population. → https://is.gd/ErvMgL | 07:15 |
manjaroi3 | You guys realize the infection rate is waaay lower than influenza and pnwumonia right? | 07:16 |
pyna | do not want coronawalrus | 07:17 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:08 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 07:23 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:29 UTC: (news): 'It won't be the same': Italy's small stores reopen after virus lockdown, but life has changed → https://is.gd/ZJJZfw | 07:37 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 05:40 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 07:44 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:00 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 08:06 |
Butterfly^ | https://twitter.com/Daniel_Lewis3/status/1253482576699969537 Here is Dr. Birx's reaction when President Trump asks his science advisor to study using UV light on the human body and injecting disinfectant to fight the coronavirus. | 08:13 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:06 UTC: 'We knew that the foreign workers would be a stress point:' Singapore diplomat on battling coronavirus: On April 1, Singapore had just around 1,000 cases, but in less than a month, it has spiked to more than 10,000. The majority of the explosion in cases has been attributed to its migrant worker population. → https://is.gd/ErvMgL | 08:14 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:12 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 08:21 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 06:25 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 08:28 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:39 UTC: China 'owes us': Growing outrage over Beijing's handling of the coronavirus pandemic: A growing chorus of voices around the world is calling for China to compensate for the damages incurred due to the global coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/q8T9RK | 08:43 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: I really canot believe that ... amazing | 08:45 |
mefistofeles | how they can stay there and not say anything :/ | 08:45 |
Butterfly^ | i watched it over 10x in a row, i kept shaking my head in disbelieve, and i'm still shaking my head in disbelieve | 08:46 |
mefistofeles | :/ | 08:47 |
Butterfly^ | if he gets elected again, whatever little respect the world still has for america, will sink to new lows, even a donkey never trips over the same stone twice | 08:48 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:45 UTC: Eurozone crisis: UK retail sales tumble amid Covid-19 lockdown, but alcohol demand soars - business live → https://is.gd/jhzPim | 08:50 |
Butterfly^ | https://i.imgur.com/kEEDG1u.png | 08:52 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: I'm going to really need a better source on that video, tbh... do you have any? | 08:56 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:54 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Japan confirms more cases on cruise ship; Bill Gates on stopping the pandemic: Japan has confirmed 43 more cases on the Italian cruise ship Costa Atlantica currently docked in the western city of Nagasaki for repairs, reported Japanese broadcaster NHK. → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 08:57 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: nvm, easy to find... unbelievable!! | 08:57 |
Butterfly^ | there's a source in the image, cnn | 08:57 |
Butterfly^ | i bet a google search will give more sources | 08:58 |
Butterfly^ | thing is, it's fact that we still know little about what exactly this virus can do to us all | 08:59 |
Butterfly^ | it can take years to truly know the longterm effects of this virus, even people who get survive it (after coma in ICU on a ventilator, or at home with an extreme fever), could have permanent or longterm damage that we don't know about yet | 09:00 |
Butterfly^ | it's the reason why clinical trials normally last for several years, and even then, they keep following up for 20-30 years to come sometimes | 09:01 |
Butterfly^ | my dad had a new type of surgery 20 years ago, he's still called in yearly for a checkup, as part of clinical trial follow up | 09:01 |
mefistofeles | we know a lot | 09:02 |
mefistofeles | but yes, still a lot missing | 09:02 |
Butterfly^ | we know jack shit about long term effects | 09:02 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: true | 09:02 |
Butterfly^ | i read an article that it can take 15-20 years for the lungs to truly repair from corona | 09:02 |
Butterfly^ | of course, that's not science, as it hasn't been this long, but it is a possibility | 09:03 |
mefistofeles | this is not something exclusive for this virus | 09:03 |
Butterfly^ | true | 09:03 |
mefistofeles | any kind of severe damage on tissues has long term effects, this is known... now, what exactly the effects are for this virus it's not known exactly, but still a lot can be said comparing it to other similar diseases | 09:04 |
mefistofeles | many doctors are comparing it to high altitude pulmonary edemea, for example | 09:05 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 06:59 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 09:05 |
mefistofeles | so there's no real reason to believe that the long term effects can be anything but, actually, they should be close to the ones for similar diseases | 09:06 |
mefistofeles | now, that said, I do think that many of the long term for most of these other diseases are actually not really known... because only now we are concerned about this, since a significantly large part of the population is getting it | 09:06 |
Butterfly^ | they say kids don't get symptoms, or very light symptoms, yet, we have had kids of all ages die, 1 month old, 5 month old, 2 years old, 5 years old, ... | 09:07 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: that has never been said in an absolute way | 09:07 |
Butterfly^ | the thing with younger kids is, we usually haven't found out yet if they have any underlying medical conditions like a heart issue, lung issue, kidneys, ... who knows what | 09:07 |
mefistofeles | there's a chance, a really small one, that young people die from this.... and of course if many yung people get infected, the corresponding part would die... and in absolute numbers it could be hundreds of cases | 09:07 |
mefistofeles | I think the mortality there is 0.1% or something like that (depending on the actual age group) | 09:08 |
Butterfly^ | my sister's 2 kids are under 2 years old, youngest is 8 months old, who knows what longterm effect it could have, or how it would impact their development the next 20 years | 09:08 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: stil, that doesn't mean anything is possible... again, things can be inferred from similar and more studied diseases | 09:09 |
mefistofeles | the problem is that the exact consequences are in general hard to know, not only for this virus | 09:09 |
Butterfly^ | it'll take years to really know enough about covid | 09:10 |
Butterfly^ | but every week, every month, we learn more | 09:10 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: probably, as with any other diseases | 09:10 |
mefistofeles | also, we probably know more now from covid than other virus, tbh | 09:11 |
Butterfly^ | right, messed up part i that so many countries want to reopen the country like tomorrow | 09:11 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: well, there are already meny countries reopening | 09:11 |
Butterfly^ | imagine being in the middle of WWII, and for 2 minutes, nobody has heard any bullets, would you just start casually dancing around walking through the battle field? | 09:11 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Airlines are in 'survival mode,' passenger revenues set for steep drop, IATA says → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 09:12 |
Butterfly^ | that's how it feels like to me when i hear countries wanting to reopen the country while corona is still spreading like madness | 09:12 |
mefistofeles | still, as antibodies test have suggested the cases are really mch much more than the confirmed ones, for NY it has been estimated that 20% of the population has been infected | 09:12 |
mefistofeles | that's 4million people just in NY | 09:12 |
Butterfly^ | in Belgium, the antibody tests say 3% of Belgium was infected | 09:13 |
Butterfly^ | Belgium has the highest deathrate / million according to the statistics | 09:13 |
mefistofeles | Germany in this small town, also similar numbers, with 15%, if I recall correctly | 09:13 |
Butterfly^ | https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/19/why-is-belgiums-death-toll-so-high-195778 | 09:13 |
mefistofeles | and they are performing a bigger scale now | 09:13 |
Butterfly^ | we count way more people as corona deaths | 09:13 |
Butterfly^ | even without them being tested | 09:14 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: exactly, so they are all consistent | 09:14 |
Butterfly^ | 2/3 of our deaths happen in retirement homes | 09:14 |
Butterfly^ | some retirementhomes have seen a DROP in deaths compared to last year, yet, this year, nearly all of them are counted as corona | 09:14 |
mefistofeles | and they all really point that enforcing the hard lockdown is actually kinda silly, since it would still be spreading since so many people has had it already | 09:14 |
Butterfly^ | the article i just posted is an interesting read | 09:14 |
mefistofeles | and also it means that the virus isnñ t as bad as we thought | 09:14 |
mefistofeles | isn't* | 09:15 |
Butterfly^ | the biggest reason for the lockdown is to keep hospitals within capacity | 09:15 |
mefistofeles | regardless of all these specific but really small number of cases with special pathologies | 09:15 |
Butterfly^ | if hospitals are over capacities, deaths start rising like madness, not just corona deaths, ALL deaths | 09:15 |
mefistofeles | yes | 09:15 |
mefistofeles | but the death spiking corresponds to a previous spike in infections that has already passed | 09:16 |
mefistofeles | even much sooner than data shows, from these antibodies tests | 09:16 |
Butterfly^ | since we've seen a reduction in hospital bed usage for 10 days now, and are now at about 40% of ICU beds in use, we're slowly opening up some businesses, but with strict regulations, social distancing, and way more cleaning | 09:16 |
Butterfly^ | but this could be reversed in 2 weeks if we're getting close to reaching hospital peaks again | 09:16 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: we would have to see, the infection rate for some countries was already trending down before the lockdown measures and it didn't show an acceleration of the "slowdown" when the measures were taking place | 09:18 |
Butterfly^ | if we hadn't gone on lockdown when we did, even if had waited one more week, we would've reached hospital capacity, and deathrates would've been quite a bit higher | 09:18 |
Butterfly^ | there's many different strains of coronavirus around | 09:18 |
Butterfly^ | slighty mutations | 09:19 |
mefistofeles | yes, but they are not present in every countrie | 09:19 |
Butterfly^ | Belgium is a tiny country, we've got quite a mix going on here | 09:19 |
mefistofeles | country* | 09:19 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 07:10 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 09:19 |
mefistofeles | the worst part on that regard s on latin america and africa, and now going back to asia again | 09:19 |
Butterfly^ | Italy's strain is different than France's strain, which is different than Germany's strain, which is different than Netherlands strain, which is different than UK strain, Belgium, has like a combination of all those | 09:19 |
mefistofeles | they have strains from all over the spectrum | 09:20 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: it's not as bad for belgium, check the nextstrain.org results | 09:20 |
Butterfly^ | according to death toll numbers / million, Belgium is the worst country in the world | 09:21 |
mefistofeles | now, you can indeed get infected by more than one strain, and that's been already happening | 09:21 |
Butterfly^ | of course, we report very differently | 09:21 |
Butterfly^ | didn't know that site yet, thanks, will have a look | 09:22 |
Butterfly^ | Belgium is everywhere | 09:25 |
Butterfly^ | unrooted layout is interesting | 09:25 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:13 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update latest: testing expanded across country to anyone with respiratory symptoms – live news → https://is.gd/mocfEO | 09:26 |
Butterfly^ | oh boy, it came from China directly to Belgium first | 09:27 |
Butterfly^ | before it was even getting big in China | 09:27 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: the same for most countries, yes | 09:32 |
mefistofeles | Butterfly^: there have been already reported cases in the USA as of early January | 09:32 |
Butterfly^ | yeah i know | 09:32 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Airlines are in 'survival mode,' passenger revenues set for steep drop, IATA says → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 09:34 |
l0ndoner | Architect of Sweden's approach says it has worked | 09:37 |
mefistofeles | l0ndoner: it worked for everyone :P | 09:43 |
mefistofeles | virtually every european country had the virus much more sooner than expected, and it spiked before any lockdown measures wee taking place | 09:43 |
l0ndoner | Nordic statistic do tell a diffrent story | 09:43 |
mefistofeles | well, of the big hit, that is | 09:43 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +5849 cases (now 68622), +60 deaths (now 615) since 18 hours ago — Quebec, Canada: +873 cases (now 21838), +109 deaths (now 1243) since a day ago — Ukraine: +477 cases (now 7647) since 18 hours ago | 09:52 |
Butterfly^ | https://i.imgur.com/IcYFaRQ.jpg | 10:00 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:16 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Buongiorno a tutti, mentre eravate via → https://is.gd/lyJQB4 | 10:17 |
PlanckWalk | l0ndoner: Yes, it worked: it infect more people causing more deaths sooner than comparable countries. | 10:19 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:19 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Economia → https://is.gd/XAe1To | 10:25 |
mefistofeles | PlanckWalk: that's not true, if you see the Sweden path is still better than that of SPain, UK, France or Italy and similar to that of Germany... for the reported deaths | 10:25 |
mefistofeles | for the confirmed cases it's similar to that of Japan, and they both are below the trajectory of others but still not showing a consistent slowdown | 10:26 |
mefistofeles | which again, ma suggest that regardless of the type of measures taken the outcome is similar, consistent with the idea of the infection really spiking up much sooner than what data from tests show | 10:28 |
mefistofeles | so more similar to the data from antibodies tests | 10:28 |
mefistofeles | s/ma/may | 10:28 |
PlanckWalk | Eh, most of those European countries took actions far later in terms of deaths/million | 10:29 |
PlanckWalk | So yes, Sweden's approach is better than doign nothing | 10:30 |
mefistofeles | yes, also the deaths aren't really avoided by strict lockdown measures | 10:31 |
mefistofeles | most commonly just delayed... | 10:31 |
PlanckWalk | Lockdowns don't affect deaths at all until about 3-4 weeks later | 10:31 |
PlanckWalk | Lockdowns limit new infections, most deaths occur 3+ weeks after infection. | 10:32 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 08:23 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 10:32 |
mefistofeles | specially if you go for an early supression, like some of latin americans countries are... delaying the deaths as much as possible, to get prepared as much as possible | 10:34 |
mefistofeles | PlanckWalk: mostly the effect is delaying the infections, nto avoiding or absolutely supressing them | 10:36 |
mefistofeles | the change in numbers is estimated to be 1% for most models I've seen, so not really significant | 10:37 |
mefistofeles | now, if you manage to delay them long enough until you get some really good treatment or vaccine, then you do avoid a lot of deaths, but that's not an option for most | 10:38 |
PlanckWalk | Right, that's what Australia is doing | 10:41 |
PlanckWalk | Drive down the infection rate to the point where test+trace+isolate can contain it | 10:42 |
mefistofeles | PlanckWalk: I think Korea as well | 10:42 |
PlanckWalk | Trouble is that we don't know whether it's working, and won't for some weeks yet | 10:43 |
mefistofeles | yes, specially from the data of these antibodies tests that suggest this thing has been spreading much sooner | 10:43 |
mefistofeles | weeks sooner | 10:43 |
PlanckWalk | Eh, I've always thought (based on deaths) that it was spreading weeks sooner | 10:44 |
mefistofeles | even sooner than that xD | 10:44 |
mefistofeles | I mean, for the US there is data suggesting it was spreading in the community already since early January | 10:44 |
mefistofeles | when this thing wasn't even "exploding" in China... in terms of confirmed cases | 10:45 |
PlanckWalk | Yes, that's about the timescale I've been looking at. There were reports of excess pneumonia deaths in early March | 10:45 |
PlanckWalk | Which would imply significant spread by mid Feb, building up from January | 10:46 |
mefistofeles | PlanckWalk: do you have a source on that? | 10:46 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Airlines are in 'survival mode,' passenger revenues set for steep drop, IATA says → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 10:46 |
PlanckWalk | Not a handy URL, but it was discussed in various forums that CDC data was trending unexpectedly upward in week 10, while lab tested influenza was still going down. | 10:50 |
mefistofeles | PlanckWalk: I see | 10:52 |
mefistofeles | yes, that's consistent with recent data | 10:52 |
mefistofeles | I guess | 10:52 |
PlanckWalk | Nothing like the rates seen in week 12+, but enough to be suspicious | 10:53 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:50 UTC: China 'owes us': Growing outrage over Beijing's handling of the coronavirus pandemic: A growing chorus of voices around the world is calling for China to compensate for the damages incurred due to the global coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/q8T9RK | 10:54 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:55 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: government already out of home testing kits today; Trump says Johnson sounds 'ready to go' → https://is.gd/PDb8YQ | 11:01 |
mefistofeles | EuropePMC really failing at article dates :/ from thecovid-19 search query they suggest | 11:13 |
mefistofeles | many of them showing 1-Dec-2020 dates | 11:14 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:08 UTC: Eurozone crisis: UK retail sales tumble amid Covid-19 lockdown, but alcohol demand soars - business live → https://is.gd/jhzPim | 11:15 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +1496 cases (now 44293), +189 deaths (now 6679) since 20 hours ago — Bangladesh: +503 cases (now 4689) since 20 hours ago — Poland: +248 cases (now 10759) since 16 hours ago | 11:22 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:16 UTC: China 'owes us': Growing outrage over Beijing's handling of the coronavirus pandemic: A growing chorus of voices around the world is calling for China to compensate for the damages incurred due to the global coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/q8T9RK | 11:23 |
tinwhiskers | Ridiculous | 11:29 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ at 09:16 UTC: What is happening to non-covid deaths?: Concerns are being raised that one possible consequence of efforts to contain covid-19 could be an increase in deaths from other causes. It’s still relatively early in the spread of the pandemic.... → https://is.gd/3GPkzp | 11:30 |
mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: what is? the "owes us" thing? | 11:31 |
tinwhiskers | Yeah | 11:31 |
mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: yes :/ | 11:31 |
PlanckWalk | Totally :( | 11:31 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 09:35 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Coronavirus Outbreak Timelapse January 20 to April 24 Distribution by continents Spread of Covid 19 → https://is.gd/GU8OBD | 11:37 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 09:41 UTC: Evolution of Face Masks: submitted by /u/SuccessfulRange6 to r/CoronaVirusInfo → https://is.gd/l2QOOi | 11:45 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:51 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Giappone → https://is.gd/QQ6GoD | 11:52 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 10:00 UTC: Coronavirus: Virus tests now available to millions of workers: But the government is still some way short of its target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of April. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 12:06 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:14 UTC: Trump floats dangerous coronavirus treatment ideas at daily briefing – video: Donald Trump prompted a backlash from medical experts after floating the idea that they could look into heat, light and injections of disinfectants as a cure for Covid-19. His public health advisers immediately played down the idea, and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/lyuosz | 12:20 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Indonesia reports biggest daily jump in cases; Airlines in 'survival mode' → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 12:27 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 10:30 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: APP IMMUNI: Giorgio Taverniti spiega perchè sarebbe la piú grande violazione della privacy mai avvenuta. → https://is.gd/4B69GG | 12:34 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +6740 cases (now 219764), +367 deaths (now 22524) since 21 hours ago — Singapore: +897 cases (now 12075) since 21 hours ago — Indonesia: +436 cases (now 8211) since 21 hours ago | 12:38 |
friedbat | Yikes. Looks like Spain's cases are spiking back up? | 12:42 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:46 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Spain daily death toll lowest in over a month; airlines in 'survival mode' → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 12:48 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 10:54 UTC: Coronavirus: Test website closes after 'significant demand': Up to 10 million key workers and their households are eligible to book a test for coronavirus. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 13:03 |
mefistofeles | friedbat: yes, a bit, apparently | 13:08 |
mefistofeles | still on the "slowdown" trend, but not as much as some days ago | 13:10 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:09 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia - Milano → https://is.gd/me2xx7 | 13:10 |
mefistofeles | afaics | 13:10 |
mefistofeles | now, testing are commonly still growing exponentially so that might as well play a role in getting more new daily cases , since testing is now growing faster than the cases themselves | 13:13 |
mefistofeles | would have to look if the specificity of these has changed significantly | 13:14 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 11:09 UTC: Coronavirus: Test website closes after 'significant demand': Up to 10 million key workers and their households are eligible to book a test for coronavirus. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 13:17 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:15 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: key workers denied tests as applications close and home kits run out → https://is.gd/PDb8YQ | 13:24 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:32 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna → https://is.gd/xofcb6 | 13:38 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Spain daily death toll lowest in over a month; airlines in 'survival mode' → https://is.gd/qc1XcV | 13:45 |
fRiT | Dr. Rashid Buttar debunks or fishing Covid-19 conspiracy https:www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGbYHJcMbz8 | 13:46 |
fRiT | He can get real popular real quick $ $$ | 13:48 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 11:47 UTC: Coronavirus: Test website closes after 'significant demand': Up to 10 million key workers and their households are eligible to book a test for coronavirus. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 13:52 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Iran: +1168 cases (now 88194), +93 deaths (now 5574) since 22 hours ago — Qatar: +761 cases (now 8525) since 22 hours ago — Brazil: +194 cases (now 50230) since 8 hours ago | 13:53 |
fRiT | Misrepresentation | 13:57 |
fRiT | Let me open up that Gift in the mail | 13:58 |
fRiT | Test | 13:58 |
fRiT | pick a finger | 14:00 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 12:02 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Excruciating clip shows the moment Trump's medical adviser heard him say bleach can cure coronavirus → https://is.gd/1zdrdG | 14:07 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:12 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Se servisse una raccomandazione medica: non iniettate il disinfettante. → https://is.gd/s8nYp2 | 14:14 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:16 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Giappone → https://is.gd/GHrFcG | 14:21 |
livebrain | %data portugal | 14:26 |
Brainstorm | livebrain: In all areas, Portugal, there are 22353 cases (0.2% of the population) and 820 deaths (3.7% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 315758 tests were performed (7.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal for time series data. | 14:26 |
livebrain | %data holland | 14:26 |
Brainstorm | livebrain: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 36535 cases (0.2% of the population) and 4289 deaths (11.7% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 187667 tests were performed (19.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data. | 14:26 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:21 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: officials apologise after key workers denied tests on day one of Hancock scheme → https://is.gd/PDb8YQ | 14:28 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump comments 'dangerous,' Spain reports lowest new deaths in a month → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 14:35 |
dataman4 | NBC comments dangerous to humanity | 14:41 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:34 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Russia sees near-record jump in cases; Spain recoveries outstrip new infections → https://is.gd/8YgT7t | 14:42 |
livebrain | trump spoke about putting dangerous stuff into the body | 14:42 |
livebrain | a president has to be very carefull about the words used | 14:43 |
dataman4 | no he didn't | 14:43 |
dataman4 | I watched that whole press conference | 14:43 |
ecov | lol | 14:43 |
livebrain | 13:43 < livebrain> a president has to be very carefull about the words used | 14:43 |
livebrain | because alot of ppl will misunderstood them | 14:43 |
dataman4 | NBC selectively edited and cut the video of him speaking | 14:43 |
livebrain | and try stupid things | 14:43 |
ecov | livebrain: it's called natural selection my friend | 14:43 |
dataman4 | NBC deliberately misinterprets him then you complain about people misunderstanding | 14:43 |
livebrain | its not only NBC | 14:43 |
dataman4 | agreed | 14:43 |
dataman4 | what POTUS said was fine and he's right, there are treatments and there is evidence of using some of these things to treat similar medical problems | 14:44 |
dataman4 | light has been used in medicine since the beginning | 14:44 |
ecov | na dataman4 he suggested injecting bleach into your eyeball | 14:44 |
dataman4 | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122858/ | 14:45 |
livebrain | beginning of the virus ? | 14:45 |
dataman4 | https://twitter.com/chrisbergpov/status/1247680994821509121 | 14:45 |
dataman4 | CDC guidelines instruct doctors to declare deaths as COVID even when they aren't confirmed | 14:45 |
livebrain | again | 14:46 |
dataman4 | IL dept of health said they count them even when there's clearly a different cause of death, she even mentions hospice | 14:46 |
livebrain | a president has to be very carefull about words | 14:46 |
dataman4 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEGCPPUiGvE | 14:46 |
dataman4 | President's words were fine. Fake news lies | 14:46 |
livebrain | im not saying trump is good or bad | 14:47 |
livebrain | that is not relevant | 14:47 |
livebrain | but the wording was bad | 14:47 |
livebrain | and stupid ppl will die because of it | 14:47 |
ecov | livebrain: if the president were to insinuate injeting bleach into your eye as a treatment, and 100,000 people did it and died, did anyone lose? | 14:47 |
ecov | riddle of the day | 14:47 |
livebrain | those 100 000 would loose | 14:47 |
dataman4 | livebrain is obviously just a trump hater spreading NBC nonsense | 14:47 |
dataman4 | chinese propaganda | 14:48 |
livebrain | just because someone is "stupid" doesnt mean they have to die | 14:48 |
livebrain | dataman4: actually i kinda like trump | 14:48 |
ecov | livebrain: humanity didnt make it this far by preserving the stupid | 14:48 |
dataman4 | livebrain, are you American | 14:48 |
l0ndoner | I've just read Trumps statement.... Alot of thick amaericans are going to poison themselves :( | 14:48 |
l0ndoner | stupid cmment by trump | 14:48 |
dataman4 | go watch the press conference yourself | 14:48 |
dataman4 | instead of reading NBC's transcript | 14:48 |
livebrain | dataman4: i have | 14:48 |
livebrain | and this is pointless | 14:48 |
dataman4 | if POTUS cured cancer you'd say he was hurting the medical industry | 14:49 |
ecov | l0ndoner: I'll wait for the news articles of people offing themselves with bleach | 14:49 |
dataman4 | hypotheticals | 14:49 |
l0ndoner | yea only matter of time | 14:49 |
ecov | maybe the advice will get some of you hermits outside | 14:49 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:46 UTC: (news): 'It's irresponsible and it's dangerous': Experts rip Trump's idea of injecting disinfectant to treat COVID-19 → https://is.gd/GoPB4d | 14:49 |
ecov | i can smell the pasty skin in these irc rooms | 14:49 |
l0ndoner | dataman4: will prob be the first lol | 14:50 |
livebrain | ppl have died because of stupid things trying to cure the virus | 14:50 |
livebrain | and if a president is misunderstooded more will die | 14:50 |
ecov | ... | 14:51 |
dataman4 | that's literally not what he said | 14:51 |
ecov | youre making something out of nothing | 14:51 |
ecov | you realize that? | 14:51 |
dataman4 | NBC is full of shit and you're retarded if you believe NBC's headline | 14:51 |
livebrain | dataman4: who said i wachted nbc ? | 14:51 |
dataman4 | ? | 14:51 |
dataman4 | who said I was talking to you | 14:51 |
l0ndoner | I watched Trump... Guy is a buffoon but I like him | 14:51 |
ecov | livebrain: thoughts? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/mexico-health-workers-attacked-covid-19-fears | 14:52 |
livebrain | spain has some issues also | 14:52 |
livebrain | with ppl telling doctors/nurses to go live elsewere | 14:52 |
ecov | those poor people throwing the bleach | 14:53 |
livebrain | dataman4: you need to take a "calm down pill" | 14:53 |
peterxy[m] | %cases india | 14:53 |
Brainstorm | peterxy[m]: In all areas, India, there are 23502 cases (0.0% of the population) and 722 deaths (3.1% of cases) as of 4 minutes ago. 541789 tests were performed (4.3% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 12.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data. | 14:53 |
livebrain | because the world is not against your nor the trump actually | 14:53 |
livebrain | lol | 14:53 |
dataman4 | pointing out fake news | 14:54 |
dataman4 | sorry if it bothers you | 14:54 |
dataman4 | doesn't need to upend your world view to admit that NBC is not truthful | 14:54 |
ecov | "Apart from being sprayed with bleach, they have faced verbal assaults, been denied seats in public transport and been blocked from entering their own communities." | 14:54 |
livebrain | so even you misunderstood my words it seems | 14:54 |
livebrain | i never watched that nbc article | 14:55 |
dataman4 | POTUS didn't say injecting disinfectant, NBC said that - if you think those words are irresponsible - attack NBC since htey're the one who said it | 14:55 |
tinwhiskers | dataman4: you really do need to take a chill pill | 14:55 |
livebrain | but go ahead with all the nbc hate | 14:55 |
ecov | dataman4: it's the ol' "gotcha game" | 14:56 |
dataman4 | yea, they'd rather stir up trouble and get bad info out there | 14:56 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump comments 'dangerous,' Spain reports lowest new deaths in a month → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 14:56 |
ecov | dataman4: raitings | 14:57 |
dataman4 | hahaha | 14:57 |
dataman4 | trump | 14:57 |
dataman4 | trump's comments are dangerous to big pharma and that's all | 14:57 |
dataman4 | they hate hydroxychloroquine because it's generic, off patent, cheap and effective | 14:57 |
tinwhiskers | ecov: that's truly horrible what is happening in Mexico | 14:57 |
livebrain | ppl have died becuase of hydroxychloroquine | 14:58 |
dataman4 | fake news | 14:58 |
dataman4 | link me the pond cleaner article please | 14:58 |
dataman4 | you can die if you take 10 grams of caffiene, all medicines can be abused | 14:58 |
ecov | there was a death in Arizona IIRC from some idiot eating fish food | 14:58 |
livebrain | yes stupid ppl will abuse that | 14:58 |
ecov | this type of behavior shouldnt be preserved and passed down | 14:58 |
livebrain | as a "holly" cure for the virus | 14:58 |
livebrain | and they will die | 14:58 |
livebrain | and again... pls read with attention, i even like trump | 14:59 |
livebrain | and im not saying he said those things | 14:59 |
livebrain | but a president needs to be very carefull with the chosen words | 14:59 |
livebrain | because they will be misunderstooded by some | 14:59 |
dataman4 | ok mr chinese propaganda | 14:59 |
livebrain | omg... | 14:59 |
livebrain | irc is hard sometimes | 15:00 |
dataman4 | take the 'brain' out of your name | 15:00 |
livebrain | living brain doesnt mean smart brain | 15:00 |
tinwhiskers | dataman4: last warning with this antagonistic behaviour | 15:00 |
livebrain | it means its alive | 15:00 |
l0ndoner | dataman4: are you a trump supporter? | 15:00 |
dataman4 | tinwhiskers, relax mate. call him on his rhetoric too | 15:00 |
dataman4 | l0ndoner, I'm a proud American | 15:00 |
tinwhiskers | Tame it down or take it elsewhere | 15:01 |
dataman4 | Relax, loosen your sweatpants | 15:01 |
l0ndoner | dataman4: not as proud as brits we outshine proud Americans by like 1000 years | 15:02 |
tinwhiskers | This is really not the ideal place for this political arguing but giving leeway since it's rather topical. Keep it nice though or I'll have to end. | 15:02 |
livebrain | %data portugal | 15:02 |
Brainstorm | livebrain: In all areas, Portugal, there are 22353 cases (0.2% of the population) and 820 deaths (3.7% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 315758 tests were performed (7.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal for time series data. | 15:02 |
dataman4 | Please stop threatening me, this isn't a place for narrative control | 15:02 |
dataman4 | if you want to have a sandbox discussion then I'm not interested anyway | 15:03 |
dataman4 | CDC altered guidelines for death certificates | 15:03 |
dataman4 | DOH counts hospice deaths and clear alternate causes of death as COVID | 15:03 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:58 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Il Consiglio dei ministri approva il Def - Politica - ANSA → https://is.gd/l3U5lU | 15:04 |
dataman4 | NBC twists Trump's words and lies, putting out info about injecting disinfectent (he never said that) | 15:04 |
dataman4 | so NBC puts out the bad info, attributes it to Trump - then other people carry that tune and the bad info propagates | 15:04 |
ecov | dataman4: which makes me wonder, was Biden chosen so Trump can win reelection and carry on good ratings? | 15:05 |
ecov | the outrage makes them a shit ton of money | 15:05 |
tinwhiskers | Ok, that's enough of this political stuff please. It's off topic now. | 15:06 |
tinwhiskers | You could take it to ##coronavirus-vox but you'll still need to be polite | 15:07 |
ecov | but daaaaaaaaad | 15:07 |
livebrain | one thing is for shure, every time i cough i think i have the virus (getting paranoid) | 15:07 |
tinwhiskers | :-) | 15:07 |
livebrain | -vox tinwhiskers ? | 15:07 |
dataman4 | ecov, I don't know why they picked Biden | 15:07 |
dataman4 | I think Bidens' truly the best they have to offer | 15:08 |
dataman4 | hard to pick a gem out of a crowd of corrupt a-holes | 15:08 |
ecov | Tulsi wouldve got my vote | 15:08 |
dataman4 | she's CFR | 15:08 |
dataman4 | not my cup of tea | 15:08 |
dataman4 | pun intended | 15:08 |
ecov | livebrain: same here, it doesnt help I smoke weed constantly | 15:09 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Saudi Arabia: +1172 cases (now 15102) since a day ago — Sweden: +812 cases (now 17567), +131 deaths (now 2152) since a day ago — Netherlands: +806 cases (now 36535), +112 deaths (now 4289) since a day ago | 15:09 |
ecov | *dies coughing* fuck... I hope I'm not sick *realizes I'm holding a joint* | 15:09 |
ecov | heh | 15:09 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: officials apologise after key workers denied tests on day one of Hancock scheme → https://is.gd/PDb8YQ | 15:11 |
dataman4 | https://www.wcpo.com/news/coronavirus/cbp-seizes-over-2-000-counterfeit-kn95-masks-from-china | 15:14 |
dataman4 | CBP seizes over 2,000 counterfeit KN95 masks from China | 15:14 |
l0ndoner | M3 not producing enough masks? | 15:15 |
dataman4 | 3M sold them to China, remember? | 15:16 |
dataman4 | POTUS had to call them out | 15:16 |
livebrain | not for the whole world | 15:16 |
dataman4 | https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/04/03/3m-blasts-back-at-trump-company-says-not-selling-masks-to-canada-could-spark-retaliation/#7f25961d7465 | 15:17 |
mefistofeles | https://www.scientificamerican.com/video/the-science-behind-how-coronavirus-tests-work/ nice video on some basics of the testing science | 15:17 |
dataman4 | 3M says exporting the masks helps keep America safe LOL | 15:17 |
dataman4 | meanwhile we get shitty knockoffs from China that let the virus infect our precious medical staff | 15:17 |
livebrain | 3M is going to get alot of money with the crisis | 15:18 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump comments 'dangerous,' Spain reports lowest new deaths in a month → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 15:18 |
dataman4 | who programmed this bot | 15:18 |
mefistofeles | dataman4: is owned by LjL and it's a version of a commonly known python bot, iirc | 15:19 |
mefistofeles | don't recall the exact name for the python bot, though | 15:19 |
mefistofeles | but it should be one of the sopel, phyenny, jenni family | 15:19 |
mefistofeles | *phenny | 15:19 |
dataman4 | obviously I was meaning who selected the source list of news items | 15:20 |
mefistofeles | dataman4: basically LjL does | 15:20 |
dataman4 | ok | 15:20 |
ecov | dataman4: this is the general attitude in this channel... i mentioned the good news yesterday that UV light kills the virus quickly.... Ive been working outside during this whole thing.... and the response was "BUT IS IT ENOUGH?!" | 15:20 |
ecov | feed on the outrage | 15:20 |
mefistofeles | ecov: not true, that's not the general attitude here | 15:20 |
dataman4 | parlay that into this | 15:20 |
dataman4 | s yesterday that UV light kills the virus quickly.... Ive been working outside during this whole thing.... and the response was "BUT IS IT ENOUGH?!" | 15:20 |
dataman4 | oops bad paste | 15:21 |
dataman4 | https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technology/bill-gates-backing-plan-to-stop-climate-change-by-blocking-out-the-sun/ar-AAFKQVN | 15:21 |
mefistofeles | also, it's been known for months that UV light kills this | 15:21 |
dataman4 | then why does the fake news and CDC want us all inside | 15:21 |
dataman4 | (they want you to get sick) | 15:21 |
ecov | mefistofeles: people have been saying for awhile now that because of the situation in Aus. we werent sure | 15:21 |
mefistofeles | even actually years, since this is just commonly known in biology | 15:21 |
ecov | cant backpedal now | 15:21 |
ecov | either way, it was good news to me | 15:21 |
dataman4 | they attacked POTUS for saying the virus would wane in the warmer temperatures, fake news is fake | 15:21 |
ecov | but doom and gloom to others apparently | 15:21 |
ecov | exactly dataman4 | 15:22 |
mefistofeles | ecov: jumping from "UV kills virus" to "there's enough UV light coming getting to the surface of the earth from the sun" is a whole different thing | 15:22 |
ecov | sigh.... | 15:22 |
mefistofeles | and even so if the virus itself is exposed long enough to it, as well | 15:22 |
dataman4 | mefistofeles that's not what he said lol | 15:22 |
dataman4 | in average sunlight the virus dies within minutes | 15:22 |
ecov | lmao | 15:22 |
mefistofeles | dataman4: no | 15:22 |
dataman4 | yes | 15:22 |
ecov | ummm.. yes? | 15:22 |
mefistofeles | source? | 15:22 |
ecov | THIS is what I'm talking about | 15:22 |
ecov | insanity | 15:23 |
mefistofeles | ecov: so you don't want people to ask you for sources of your info? | 15:23 |
mefistofeles | that's insanity | 15:23 |
mefistofeles | even so, that doesn't really answer the second and most relevant point | 15:23 |
dataman4 | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8252701/Coronavirus-dies-SUNLIGHT-just-minutes-reveals-striking-study.html | 15:24 |
mefistofeles | the virus doesn't get that exposed to sunlight in general | 15:24 |
dataman4 | DHS Science and Technology study shows | 15:24 |
dataman4 | mefistofeles, surfaces do - and the virus can be transmitted by surface contact | 15:24 |
ecov | dataman4: you see the uncharitable arguing? | 15:24 |
mefistofeles | and the infection is known to happen in rather closed spaces and from prolongued contact with infected people, already known for weeks/months | 15:24 |
ecov | for the sake of arguing | 15:24 |
mefistofeles | dataman4: yes, but it's not the most likely way | 15:24 |
mefistofeles | depends on higher loeads | 15:25 |
mefistofeles | loads* | 15:25 |
dataman4 | mefistofeles so why is staying inside in close proximity with your elder family better than going out to the park | 15:25 |
mefistofeles | dataman4: dailymail is not a good source, btw, it's known to have faulty information, I was trying to get a scientific study or something like that, if possible | 15:25 |
dataman4 | why is there caution tape around the swingset in the park by my house | 15:25 |
dataman4 | dailymail is not the source, DHS is | 15:26 |
ecov | dataman4: theyre getting you used to it | 15:26 |
LjL | You're citing the daily mail talking about "unpublished research"? Seriously? | 15:26 |
dataman4 | learn to think critically | 15:26 |
dataman4 | dailymail is not the source | 15:26 |
dataman4 | DHS is | 15:26 |
ecov | uncharitable arguing for the sake of arguing | 15:26 |
dataman4 | exactly | 15:26 |
mefistofeles | dataman4: I asked for the source | 15:26 |
tinwhiskers | Sunlight is not effective in killing the virus because it is not exposed to sunlight on all faces. We live in a 3d world. | 15:27 |
mefistofeles | indeed | 15:27 |
ecov | you guys are arguing as if its being said UV LIGHT IS THE CURE!!! | 15:28 |
ecov | which its not | 15:28 |
mefistofeles | ecov: the only one bitching about it is you, nothing wrong with asking for scientific sources and good information | 15:28 |
ecov | again, this is uncharitable arguing | 15:28 |
mefistofeles | ecov: we have never said that | 15:28 |
LjL | What's uncharitable is waking up and quieting someone only after a cursory read of the backscroll | 15:28 |
LjL | And yet I did it anyway | 15:28 |
LjL | Just saying | 15:28 |
ecov | "uv light kills virus on surfaces in 1 minute" and you get jumped on | 15:29 |
mefistofeles | ecov: can we move past the bitching? | 15:29 |
mefistofeles | I'm still expecting the source and information | 15:30 |
ecov | https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/sunlight-humidity-kill-coronavirus-fastest-scientists-200424065853466.html | 15:30 |
ecov | al jazeera better? | 15:30 |
mefistofeles | scientific source, again | 15:30 |
ecov | are you this helpless? first result | 15:30 |
mefistofeles | ecov: so you had to look for it, thought you had it already... I see | 15:30 |
mefistofeles | makes sense | 15:30 |
ecov | ? | 15:30 |
ecov | again, arguing for the sake of it | 15:30 |
mefistofeles | sure | 15:30 |
ecov | you're sick in the head :) | 15:30 |
mefistofeles | so, anybody has a reviewed scientific study that tackles this question? It seems really odd that the US government is claiming this and they don't back it up with anything | 15:32 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 13:27 UTC: Coronavirus: Test website closes after 'significant demand': Up to 10 million key workers and their households are eligible to book a test for coronavirus. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 15:32 |
ecov | it's been known for months that UV light kills this | 15:33 |
mefistofeles | wouldn't be the first time US oliticians say stupid stuff, of course | 15:34 |
mefistofeles | *politicians | 15:34 |
iz | mefistofeles: it feels like just the second generation of "the spring/summer will kill this off like magic" | 15:34 |
mefistofeles | iz: yes, the hope of it | 15:34 |
ecov | ^^^^^ | 15:34 |
iz | yeah | 15:34 |
ecov | just as I said | 15:34 |
mefistofeles | but again, a research is cited but nowhere to be found :/ | 15:35 |
ecov | " you guys are arguing as if its being said UV LIGHT IS THE CURE!!!" | 15:35 |
ecov | [06:28] <mefistofeles> ecov: we have never said that | 15:35 |
ecov | "[06:34] <iz> mefistofeles: it feels like just the second generation of "the spring/summer will kill this off like magic"" | 15:35 |
ecov | lol | 15:35 |
l0ndoner | datamman4 is Ljl iirc bot? | 15:36 |
tinwhiskers | I've not seen any evidence before this either to suggest that a few minutes in the sun will make things safe. I'm highly sceptical and without something decent to back it up it seems like a very dangerous message to be sending | 15:36 |
mefistofeles | this shouldn't be that hard to test, tbh... there were others already but nowhere near to natural UV sunlight content, and the particles exposed for 30 mins or more | 15:36 |
mefistofeles | l0ndoner: what? | 15:36 |
mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: exactly | 15:37 |
l0ndoner | how does uv light tell which cells have covid-19? | 15:37 |
mefistofeles | l0ndoner: no, it's not selective | 15:37 |
l0ndoner | so it zaps all cells nice | 15:38 |
mefistofeles | that's why Trump saying these things about using UV light in the body and injecting disinfectant is idiotic | 15:38 |
l0ndoner | nothing wrong with bleach. I use cap full of bleach to 1 litre water and spray my sides down with it | 15:39 |
l0ndoner | kitchen sides | 15:39 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:35 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump comments 'dangerous,' Spain reports lowest new deaths in a month → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 15:39 |
mefistofeles | I cannot really understand how peple let this person say such stupid things xD | 15:40 |
mefistofeles | people* | 15:40 |
mefistofeles | even the people close to him | 15:40 |
ecov | https://www.scribd.com/document/456897616/DHSST#download&from_embed | 15:41 |
mefistofeles | unless they actually expect that to be believable by many (probably very ignorant people) and gain some political credibility | 15:41 |
mefistofeles | I guess | 15:41 |
l0ndoner | Architect of Sweden's approach says it has worked | 15:41 |
ecov | i know a source isnt what you really wanted | 15:43 |
ecov | but there it is | 15:43 |
ecov | anyway, I dont think anyone is expecting this to be a cure, but I'm outside a lot and it was GOOD NEWS TO ME | 15:44 |
ecov | SO FUCK YOU | 15:44 |
ecov | :P | 15:44 |
Damngerberg | you too | 15:45 |
Damngerberg | j #COVID-19 | 15:46 |
mefistofeles | so I guess that's supposed to be a leaked document on the source | 15:47 |
mefistofeles | that they claimed in congress | 15:47 |
LjL | dataman3: no, you're wrong, I didn't ask you for a source and then mute you. You should pay careful attention to the fact that "mefistofeles" and "LjL" are two different groups of letters | 15:53 |
LjL | In fact I muted you because based on all I've seen you type here making me think I don't want you hear. The source thing really is the least of issues. | 15:54 |
LjL | But right now I have 94% o2sats so I don't elaborate further. Maybe I need to shine a bright UVC lamp on me. | 15:55 |
iz | lol, was ecov the same guy that was swearing at me and saying i'm difficult to talk to yesterday? | 15:56 |
mefistofeles | iz: don'tknow, but if anything, it fits | 15:57 |
iz | it's not still in my scrollback, but i'm pretty sure it's the same guy and same nick | 15:58 |
mefistofeles | it's not the first time that user has been muted, afair | 15:58 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:56 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump comments 'dangerous,' Spain's daily death toll lowest in a month → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 16:01 |
NoImNotNineVolt | john cleese on president trump's recent comments on sars-cov-2 and/or covid-19: https://twitter.com/JohnCleese/status/1253525593062170624?s=20 | 16:03 |
NoImNotNineVolt | I would like to announce that President Trump has gone mad ( That's 'mad' in the English sense, as in 'King George III went mad, walked up to a tree in Richmond Park, and addressed it as the King of Prussia ) | 16:03 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:04 UTC: China 'owes us': Growing outrage over Beijing's handling of the coronavirus pandemic: A growing chorus of voices around the world is calling for China to compensate for the damages incurred due to the global coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/q8T9RK | 16:08 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1284 cases (now 887993), +75 deaths (now 50318) since 10 hours ago — Belarus: +751 cases (now 8773) since a day ago — Virginia, US: +596 cases (now 11594) since 23 hours ago | 16:09 |
LjL | Spec, Amazon is delivering an order in two parts, one May 2 which is a Saturday and one April 26 which is a SUNDAY | 16:10 |
LjL | and i've tried to change that but nope | 16:10 |
bin_bash | whats wrong with it | 16:11 |
mefistofeles | SUNDAY! | 16:14 |
mefistofeles | hehe | 16:14 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:07 UTC: United now requires flight attendants to wear masks. Their union wants all passengers to wear them, too: United Airlines made masks mandatory for flight attendants but their labor union is urging federal officials to mandate passengers wear them as well as coronavirus spreads. → https://is.gd/m5OxVL | 16:15 |
tinwhiskers | That's a really good move, uncomfortable at it might be | 16:16 |
mefistofeles | yes, pretty closed space | 16:16 |
LjL | bin_bash, well nothing, i'm sure they'll pay their employees generous extra time for working on sundays... | 16:20 |
bin_bash | lol | 16:20 |
bin_bash | idk how it is in italy but in the us they partner with logistics companies | 16:21 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 14:17 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Miami-Dade County misses out on 1 million N95 masks, blames feds for snagging shipment → https://is.gd/nTPKx0 | 16:22 |
LjL | bin_bash, also from a selfish point of view, doorkeeper isn't there on sundays | 16:22 |
LjL | so we have to answer the door on the fly and run down before they get bored and go to do next delivery | 16:23 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:26 UTC: United now requires flight attendants to wear masks. Union urges same rule for passengers, too: United Airlines made masks mandatory for flight attendants but their labor union is urging federal officials to mandate passengers wear them as well as the coronavirus spreads. → https://is.gd/m5OxVL | 16:29 |
mefistofeles | LjL: can you leave a message in the door? may work | 16:30 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Lysol maker says don't ingest disinfectants; United makes masks mandatory → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 16:36 |
bin_bash | LjL: wow no doorman on sundays at all? not even an auxillary? yeah that def causes a bigger issue | 16:37 |
bin_bash | the lysol thing is so funny because lysol was invented to be a vaginal douche | 16:37 |
LjL | the people who live in this building are so bright that some of them complained to the doorkeeper that it smelt like bleach in the hall | 16:38 |
bin_bash | also i personally hope that everyone who thinks trump is a trustworthy source of medical information follows his suggestion and mainlines disinfectant | 16:38 |
LjL | so she stopped using bleach | 16:38 |
Butterfly^ | https://i.imgur.com/e4MKQeW.mp4 Well well, i’ll be damned! Bill warned us!! | 16:40 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Italy's daily coronavirus recoveries surpass new cases for the first time since the outbreak began (10296 votes) | https://redd.it/g759lj | 16:40 |
JamGobbar | italy reopening yet? | 16:43 |
ubLIX | can't tell if this has been posted yet; The Economist spent some time examining excess-deaths: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries | 16:46 |
ubLIX | entire article appears to be viewable without subscription provided you disable jscript from www.economist.com but allow most other first party scripts | 16:47 |
ubLIX | essentially a discussion of euromomo's data | 16:48 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +5386 cases (now 143464), +768 deaths (now 19506) since a day ago — US: +1086 cases (now 889079), +51 deaths (now 50369) since 51 minutes ago — Maryland, US: +879 cases (now 16616) since 23 hours ago | 16:54 |
mefistofeles | ah ubLIX I wa expecting one of those, thanks | 16:56 |
tinwhiskers | ubLIX: fantastic | 16:56 |
tinwhiskers | That's really awesome | 16:58 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:55 UTC: United now requires flight attendants to wear masks. Union urges same rule for passengers, too: United Airlines made masks mandatory for flight attendants but their labor union is urging federal officials to mandate passengers wear them as well as the coronavirus spreads. → https://is.gd/m5OxVL | 16:58 |
mefistofeles | would be nice to see Germany's data | 16:58 |
mefistofeles | ubLIX: euronomo? | 16:58 |
ubLIX | euromomo | 16:59 |
mefistofeles | ah I see | 16:59 |
mefistofeles | thanks | 16:59 |
ubLIX | https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#excess-mortality | 17:01 |
ubLIX | i suspect the economist's discussion will be more easily digestible | 17:01 |
ubLIX | but euromomo is there if you want a closer look | 17:02 |
tinwhiskers | Nice. Thanks | 17:02 |
darsie | panel discussion on privacy concerns around contact-tracing technologies for pandemic mitigation: https://www.disruptionlab.org/fridays | 17:02 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:00 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Lysol maker says don't ingest disinfectants; United makes masks mandatory → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 17:05 |
mefistofeles | woah, from euromomo's the 2017 flu season hit hard! heh | 17:06 |
mefistofeles | though I don't get why Germany doesn't show a change in the z-score in this month | 17:06 |
mefistofeles | does the article say something about that? | 17:07 |
ubLIX | "We cannot compare EuroMOMO’s reports directly to official covid-19 tolls, because it does not publish absolute numbers of deaths for each country, and in some, such as Italy and Germany, covers only a selection of cities and regions." | 17:08 |
ubLIX | "Like neighbouring Germany (which has yet to release recent total mortality data), Austria locked down early and has suffered relatively few deaths from the virus. On April 19th its official covid-19 death toll was less than 500, counting only people who had tested positive before passing away." | 17:09 |
ubLIX | no other mention of Germany in the economist article | 17:09 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:05 UTC: (news): Experts fire back after Trump asks whether injecting disinfectant can fight coronavirus → https://is.gd/7gH190 | 17:12 |
mefistofeles | ubLIX: ah nice, thanks | 17:12 |
ubLIX | it does say this, though: "As more places start to publish their total mortality figures, The Economist will report and analyse them on this page." | 17:13 |
ubLIX | their study seems to be ongoing, and that page seems to be where it will be discussed | 17:13 |
mefistofeles | https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html another on the topic, fwiw | 17:18 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:19 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA → https://is.gd/QI5HAr | 17:19 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1119 cases (now 890198) since 37 minutes ago — Florida, US: +526 cases (now 30174) since 17 hours ago — United Arab Emirates: +525 cases (now 9281) since a day ago | 17:25 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:21 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/087JMo | 17:27 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:30 UTC: Citing a 'primary outcome' of death, researchers cut chloroquine coronavirus study short over safety concerns: Scientists say the findings should "serve to curb the exuberant use" of the drug, which has been touted by President Donald Trump as a potential "game-changer" in the fight against the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/xUkqKf | 17:34 |
LjL | 18<26JamGobbar18> italy reopening yet? ← May 4 some things will reopen | 17:46 |
LjL | probably just a few | 17:46 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 15:43 UTC: Coronavirus: Test website closes after 'significant demand': Up to 10 million key workers and their households are eligible to book a test for coronavirus. → https://is.gd/V4WWsr | 17:48 |
mefistofeles | LjL: Not sure if we have the any excess death reports on the links in the topic, if not, maybe add one of the recently mentioned? | 17:50 |
LjL | we have euromomo | 17:52 |
LjL | the new york times... ugh, i'm a bit allergic to adding links that require subscription/registration to open | 17:52 |
LjL | let's see how archive.org fares with it | 17:52 |
LjL | uhm | 17:54 |
LjL | now i'll sound a bit nationalist or something | 17:54 |
LjL | but, a selection of countries with excess COVID deaths... not including Italy? | 17:54 |
LjL | Ecuador with what looks like a whole two data points: yes, Italy: nope? | 17:54 |
LjL | "Where we found higher deaths than normal" ← doesn't include Italy either. really? | 17:55 |
mefistofeles | LjL: I guess euromomo should do it then | 17:56 |
LjL | "It is unusual for mortality data to be released so quickly, demographers say, but many countries are working to provide more comprehensive and timely information because of the urgency of the coronavirus outbreak. The data is limited and, if anything, excess deaths are underestimated because not all deaths have been reported." ← i sort of hope that's why at least | 17:56 |
mefistofeles | also, not having Italy is fine, since it depends on the sources | 17:57 |
LjL | i just feel a bit... ignored, being in the place that was hit hardest by far, at least before the united states dominated the picture | 17:57 |
LjL | i won't go as far as "offended", but some of that sort of feeling | 17:57 |
LjL | but also, i hadn't clicked on the euromomo link yet... it looks like they revamped the site and graphs completely? | 17:58 |
LjL | it definitely looks less ancient, although depending on how much JS is required i suppose ubLIX may prefer the old one :P | 17:59 |
LjL | > Kindly note that any use of data or information originating from the EuroMOMO website must be appropriately quoted and acknowledged. | 18:00 |
LjL | i hate EU attitudes on this | 18:00 |
LjL | it's numbers | 18:00 |
LjL | they shouldn't be copyrighted | 18:00 |
LjL | it's vital numbers, at that | 18:00 |
LjL | "appropriately", in the case of some EU-related sites like meteoalarm.eu, means you basically cannot use them legally in a bot, and you also must ensure you don't have "old" data lying around visible to the public as they don't allow that | 18:01 |
LjL | which is just ridiculous when you compare it to the way these things are in the US | 18:01 |
ubLIX | i think i'll drop in on the economist link from time to time since it seems set to go beyond euromomo to a global view, as data become available | 18:02 |
Brainstorm | New from Scientific American at 16:00 UTC: Health: COVID-19 Will Hit the Elderly Even Harder in Developing Countries → https://is.gd/ulzrfg | 18:02 |
LjL | let me see the economist too... | 18:03 |
LjL | euromomo graphs are definitely more readable than before for me | 18:03 |
ubLIX | but it does technically require a subscription (that can be defeated with some uMatrix wrangling) | 18:03 |
mefistofeles | also, having only two data points is fine | 18:05 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +2563 cases (now 892761), +446 deaths (now 50849) since 49 minutes ago — Pennsylvania, US: +1599 cases (now 38652) since 15 hours ago — Canada: +663 cases (now 42773) since 17 hours ago | 18:05 |
mefistofeles | since here what matter the most is the absolut numbers not a rate or trend... at least initially | 18:05 |
LjL | ubLIX, economist doesn't ask me for a subscription, may be a matter of how many articles i've viewed, dunno | 18:06 |
mefistofeles | LjL: so NYT requires subscription? | 18:06 |
LjL | mefistofeles, subscription or registration, not necessarily payment, registration can just be giving them your email to track you | 18:06 |
LjL | anyway https://web.archive.org/web/20200424152036/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html works for me | 18:06 |
mefistofeles | LjL: I think it depends on the country, probably, the economist ask for it, and I'm sure I haven't checked any articles from that | 18:06 |
mefistofeles | let me try something quick | 18:07 |
mefistofeles | LjL: yeah, weird it doesn ask that for me | 18:07 |
mefistofeles | I have never registered or anything | 18:07 |
LjL | ubLIX, i like the economist's page (as much as i don't like the economist itself, i think) because it looks specifically at places like Lombardy and the Madrid community | 18:07 |
LjL | and London, which looks ugly | 18:08 |
mefistofeles | so yeah, it depends on country apparently, for the economist | 18:08 |
mefistofeles | I used a vpn and all went smoothly | 18:08 |
LjL | would you say these data pertail to the epidemiology section? | 18:08 |
LjL | pertain | 18:08 |
mefistofeles | press | 18:09 |
mefistofeles | I'd say | 18:09 |
LjL | i'm almost tempted to make a separate section so that i can link to it from the part where it explains why it's not a flu | 18:09 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:01 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Lysol maker says don't ingest disinfectants; United makes masks mandatory → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 18:09 |
mefistofeles | there's no epidemiology on showing numbers, tbh, unless they are checking some hypothesis... which I haven't checked because I just recently got access to it | 18:09 |
mefistofeles | I wouldn't consider this as "not a flu" argument, since it can be confusing, you can see how the 2017-18 flu also had high peaks, even though we were already expecting it, so it may actually undermine that idea | 18:16 |
mefistofeles | we know it's not a flu, but I don't think this clearly adds to that | 18:16 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:13 UTC: (news): Experts fire back after Trump asks whether injecting disinfectant can fight coronavirus → https://is.gd/7gH190 | 18:16 |
rager | https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-suggests-injection-disinfectant-beat-coronavirus-clean-lungs-n1191216 | 18:17 |
rager | Oldish, but can you believe? | 18:17 |
rager | Is this how Yakub made the first white people? | 18:17 |
mefistofeles | rager: we already went over that one... don't get us started again xD haha | 18:18 |
mefistofeles | rager: also, no need for the religious comment | 18:19 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1273 cases (now 894034), +70 deaths (now 50919) since 16 minutes ago — Indiana, US: +641 cases (now 13680) since 23 hours ago — Chile: +494 cases (now 12306) since a day ago | 18:20 |
rager | I'm just sad that this guy is our face. | 18:21 |
mefistofeles | well, it was elected by the people :/ so that's why | 18:22 |
rager | As murrikans | 18:22 |
rager | Minority Rule, but yeah | 18:23 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:21 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Lysol maker says don't ingest disinfectants; United makes masks mandatory → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 18:24 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Ecuador: +11536 cases (now 22719) since 23 hours ago — Turkey: +3122 cases (now 104912), +109 deaths (now 2600) since 23 hours ago — Italy: +3021 cases (now 192994), +420 deaths (now 25969) since a day ago | 18:35 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 16:34 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association, a randomized, double-blind trial of chloroquine with N = 81 "found that a higher dosage of chloroquine diphosphate for 10 days was associated with more toxic effects and lethality" → https://is.gd/HyW5Tg | 18:38 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Lysol maker says don't ingest disinfectants; United makes masks mandatory → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 18:45 |
mefistofeles | ↑ LOL | 18:46 |
LjL | i read "United States makes it mandatory" | 18:47 |
mefistofeles | LjL: same here | 18:47 |
mefistofeles | that would've been funnier | 18:47 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:57 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA - Georgia → https://is.gd/hWYJFK | 18:59 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:06 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Georgia businesses reopen cautiously as number of US deaths tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 19:13 |
pyna | idk, haven't seen any double blind studies proving eating tide pods and poking your eye out with a pencil isn't a cure | 19:15 |
berndj | what's the opinion on the major transmission routes? is it dominated by respiratory droplets? where to fomites figure on the hierarchy of transmission modes? | 19:15 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +8727 cases (now 903202) since 46 minutes ago — New York, US: +8130 cases (now 276711) since an hour ago — Germany: +527 cases (now 154111), +55 deaths (now 5632) since 3 hours ago | 19:20 |
ubLIX | berndj: it's difficult to make a quantitative comparison because measuring viral load in air is even harder than analysing its behaviour on surfaces; i believe most conventional authorities for some time foregrounded the fomite idea for want of anything better to do; analysing probability in airborne transmission would require extensive resort to fluid dynamics and assessing viral durability in atmosphere, a near prohibitively complex task | 19:26 |
ubLIX | this pre-print obliquely gets at a sense of the problem: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.04.20053058v1 | 19:28 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: POTUS disinfectant comments trigger manufacturer to warn people against injecting themselves with cleaning products (10669 votes) | https://redd.it/g772vd | 19:29 |
ubLIX | i'm wondering if that pre-print could be used to support an argument for relaxation of restrictions on outdoor exercise (subject to maintaining metres of social distancing) | 19:30 |
Pakse | ubLIX: no outdoor exe there? | 19:33 |
ubLIX | afaik, here in UK, the restriction is still one form of outdoor exercise per day, done alone (or with members of your own household) | 19:37 |
LjL | ubLIX, one form meaning in practice as many times as you want until the police actually stop you and ask, presumably | 19:39 |
LjL | since i don't see how it could be effectively otherwise | 19:39 |
ubLIX | well, yes | 19:39 |
LjL | or maybe the drones remember you | 19:40 |
ubLIX | one's neighbours do from time to time report each other | 19:40 |
ubLIX | i'm very lucky in not really having neighbours and live so remotely that the exercise restriction has little practical effect on me | 19:41 |
LjL | ubLIX, they do? good lord | 19:43 |
LjL | in china they legally *have* to | 19:43 |
LjL | but, well, like. | 19:43 |
LjL | so can i report my neighbor for asking the doorkeeper to stop disinfecting everything with bleach? | 19:43 |
LjL | she could be charged with, i believe the legal term is, "being a moron" | 19:43 |
ubLIX | the UK can sometimes seem like a nation of busybodies (if you read the right (wrong?) newspapers) | 19:43 |
blkshp | We're always busy ;) | 19:44 |
LjL | %title https://apnews.com/7779be92028441b387418d87bca0437b | 19:45 |
Brainstorm | LjL: From apnews.com: The Latest: Trump says disinfectant comments were sarcasm | 19:45 |
LjL | > But speaking to reporters in the Oval Office Friday, Trump insisted his comments were misconstrued. “I was asking the question sarcastically to reporters like you, just to see what would happen,” Trump said. | 19:45 |
LjL | no, you weren't. you were asking them to YOUR OWN DOCTOR, which was behind you and trying to disappear into her chair | 19:45 |
LjL | i believe we are able to see a video and our eyes can, somehow, parse that almost as if we were seeing the actual scene, despite it being just a 2D reconstruction on a screen | 19:46 |
pwr22 | Lol | 19:46 |
LjL | it's magic, almost as magic as UV | 19:46 |
pwr22 | Does he know what sarcasm means? | 19:46 |
LjL | in fact, there is some UV in it unless i tell my OS to keep the blues down | 19:46 |
LjL | pwr22, i'm sure someone briefed him up on it now | 19:46 |
ubLIX | but for urban areas, assuming the validity of that pre-print, and if there can be general trust that more outdoorsy exercise wouldn't cause a mass uptick in face to face conversations, perhaps relax exercise restrictions? | 19:47 |
pwr22 | Ah I see, he was being sarcastic about being sarcastic | 19:47 |
ubLIX | trust in incidental uptick of close encounters probably weakest link in this argument | 19:48 |
LjL | ubLIX, i think we just don't know what happens in the air, and i personally have given up trying to sneak out to have a walk | 19:48 |
LjL | not just because the restrictions are ridiculously tight but also because i'm kind of genuinely concerned with getting it | 19:48 |
LjL | especially from, say, runners who are breathing out a lot of droplets | 19:49 |
LjL | i can dodge them but i can't dodge any air with smaller droplets they've left around without me seeing them there | 19:49 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:45 UTC: (news): Trump tries to walk back speculation about injecting disinfectants to fight coronavirus, claims he was being sarcastic → https://is.gd/TWg9Zq | 19:49 |
LjL | and that air may not be dangerous, but we don't know. we just don't know. | 19:49 |
ubLIX | yeah | 19:49 |
Brainstorm | Updates for France: +1645 cases (now 159828), +389 deaths (now 22245) since 22 hours ago — India: +932 cases (now 24434), +58 deaths (now 780) since 10 hours ago — Canada: +778 cases (now 43551), +97 deaths (now 2294) since an hour ago | 19:50 |
ubLIX | the data from that pre-print doesn't really have an unambiguous coverage of non-lockdown regime anyway | 19:51 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 17:55 UTC: Aggiornamento 24/04: submitted by /u/maikk_ to r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA → https://is.gd/mRAyU5 | 19:56 |
LjL | ubLIX, if they found only one transmission outdoors... i would tend to suspect it's just hard to trace contacts outdoors | 19:58 |
LjL | which is probably much of what an app would be useful for | 19:58 |
LjL | not sure if by 11 february china had an app setup working yet | 19:59 |
ubLIX | but the idea/method of the pre-print could be adapted to compare post-lockdown home vs supermarket driven outbreaks, which i think could offer a signal for the air/fomite question | 20:00 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:00 UTC: Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus 'cure' wrote to Trump this week: Mark Grenon wrote to Trump saying chlorine dioxide ‘can rid the body of Covid-19’ days before the president promoted disinfectant as treatment → https://is.gd/bd9QLs | 20:04 |
pyna | we must shine the light of jesus trump into our bodies | 20:04 |
ubLIX | i think the apps would primarily populate lists of people for the pavement-pounding contact tracers to interrogate; i think without detailed questioning, signal wrt air/contact/fomite will be hard to extract | 20:04 |
ubLIX | but certainly valuable for letting an individual know they passed through a hotspot, for whatever that's worth | 20:05 |
ThomCat[m] | Dear almost-the-rest-of-the-World, | 20:05 |
ThomCat[m] | What's it like with competent leadership? | 20:05 |
pwr22 | UK announced it plans to use drones to deliver medical supplies | 20:06 |
pwr22 | Doesn't sound very efficient? | 20:06 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:03 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Georgia businesses reopen cautiously as number of US deaths tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 20:11 |
ubLIX | it doesn't, no | 20:16 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 18:24 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Scienza → https://is.gd/gu2d4A | 20:25 |
ubLIX | yuriwho: idk if this is your speed (Prioritisation of potential anti-SARS-CoV-2 drug repurposing opportunities based on ability to achieve adequate target site concentrations derived from their established human pharmacokinetics), posted 22 April: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20068379v1 | 20:28 |
genera | what? Speed as a drug for covid? does Trump know? | 20:36 |
genera | ^ | 20:37 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 18:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus test website to reopen for bookings after 'significant demand' → https://is.gd/N1GvNb | 20:39 |
friedbat | why does this channel discuss trump more often than coronavirus | 20:39 |
friedbat | there are plenty of politics channels on freenode | 20:39 |
ketas | well trump is not wrong about injecting ipa also killing virus | 20:39 |
ketas | :) | 20:40 |
Arsanerit | According to several sources (for example https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html), models estimate 20% of people in Stockholm are already immune to COVID-19. But in Germany, virologists estimate it will take a year to reach herd immunity without overwhelming the healthcare system | 20:40 |
Arsanerit | (https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/covid-19-was-hilft-im-kampf-gegen-das-coronavirus.1939.de.html). How could Stockholm be so different from Germany, Bergamo, or New York City? | 20:40 |
ketas | the "also" part is why we don't it | 20:40 |
ketas | do | 20:40 |
ketas | :) | 20:40 |
Arsanerit | ketas: Trump is right, injecting poison does kill the coronavirus, because it can't survive in a dead host. | 20:40 |
Arsanerit | https://xkcd.com/1217/ | 20:40 |
friedbat | Arsanerit: they have had different approaches. Sweden hasn't locked things down so their infection rate might have been higher. | 20:40 |
genera | dont try that at home. corpses still infectious. | 20:41 |
friedbat | we often inject poisons as a way to treat illness. that's what chemotherapy is. | 20:41 |
ketas | what if we trick virus into thinking host is dead so it goes fuck i'm outta here? | 20:41 |
ketas | :) | 20:42 |
berndj | friedbat, yeah i find the "bad orange man stoopid" stuff a bit tiresome too lol | 20:42 |
berndj | and chlorine dioxide isn't bleach. checkmate anti-trumpers! | 20:43 |
friedbat | berndj: i can understand it occassionally, but just judging from the past 2 days, it's constant. | 20:43 |
berndj | (IIRC ClO2 is far worse than mere bleach) | 20:43 |
LjL | who'd seriously think Trump won't be getting discussed after the shit he said yesterday? | 20:44 |
LjL | i won't say "bad orange man stoopid" because that doesn't convey a lot | 20:44 |
LjL | but he said some foolish and dangerous things and is now trying to claim they were somehow "sarcasm" | 20:44 |
LjL | it's going to be discussed, he's going to be ridiculed for it, and rightly so. | 20:44 |
AimHere | It's not news that he's stupid. It is news that he's instructing people as stupid as he is to kill themselves | 20:44 |
friedbat | it's much more interesting to discuss actual science, there's so much we're learning every day about this damn virus. we could spend all day just discussing pre-prints and theories and stats and run out of time. instead of lazy "drumpf dumb" comments. | 20:44 |
LjL | AimHere, well that is not news either after the chloroquine business | 20:44 |
berndj | i seriously think you need to be a bit "out there" to genuinely think he genuinely wants to inject chlorox into people | 20:44 |
ketas | mix ipa with mms, add some morphine and iv | 20:45 |
ketas | :) | 20:45 |
Arsanerit | friedbat: Yes, but how can they reach that level without going through New York or Bergamo style overwhelming of the healthcare system? | 20:45 |
Arsanerit | friedbat: And why would it be much quicker in Stockholm than in Germany? | 20:46 |
friedbat | berndj: he told the research guy to look at the effect of disinfectants and uv light as therapies. he didn't tell people to drink bleach. but if you hate trump you'll make believe he did. | 20:46 |
AimHere | He didn't tell people to drink bleach. He told them to inject it | 20:46 |
friedbat | Arsanerit: because they didn't impose lock-downs | 20:46 |
friedbat | and they didn't close businesses | 20:46 |
LjL | berndj, so he was being sarcastic? he was making a public speech where he turned around, repeatedly, to his doctor, who was clearly looking like "oh my god make it he doesn't ask me anything", and then of course he did ask her whether she thought it was a good idea... and this was just sarcasm? i'm not saying he "wants" to inject anything in anything, i said 1) he said foolish, uninformed things that make him ridiculous and 2) those things may make less | 20:47 |
LjL | knowledgeable people actually try doing dangerous thigs | 20:47 |
berndj | i haven't even looked at it in his own words, but dollars to donuts i'm gonna watch and think, "THIS is what people are so upset about???" | 20:47 |
Arsanerit | friedbat: How did that prevent people from dying en masse? | 20:47 |
friedbat | so the rate of transmission wasn't depressed in stockholm with social distancing measures | 20:47 |
berndj | LjL, he also asks people what we would do if aliens landed tomorrow | 20:47 |
ketas | trump even likes to be idiot i guess | 20:47 |
friedbat | Arsanerit: well, that's the million dollar question. sweden is using a different strategy and they're seemingly not falling apart | 20:47 |
Arsanerit | How did they not overwhelm the healthcare system? | 20:47 |
Arsanerit | friedbat: Yes, that is my question. | 20:47 |
friedbat | Arsanerit: they took an approach of trying to protect the elderly (though they did have a few nursing home outbreaks). it is elderly that usually end up needing icus | 20:48 |
berndj | and what are we using as a baseline anyway? there are 330 million americans, there are going to be some dumb ones among them. one could say literally *anything* and somebody would kill themselves as a result | 20:48 |
LjL | there's a spike in deaths in Sweden, just like in other countries. either they did overwhelm the hospital system, or people who die are just dying at home without ever getting to hospital. not much in-between | 20:48 |
ketas | the measures are to limit, not stop the spreas | 20:48 |
ketas | d | 20:48 |
berndj | i have a bad feeling about sweden | 20:49 |
AimHere | Sweden's deaths haven't peaked yet | 20:49 |
berndj | making the same mistake every other country already made, and then recanted | 20:49 |
friedbat | sweden's infection rates have plateued | 20:49 |
friedbat | that's a good sign for them. | 20:49 |
LjL | berndj, you said you seriously think you need to be "out there" to genuinely believe blah blah but at this point i'm going to reciprocate by saying you genuinely need to be "out there" to think yesterday's speech from Trump wasn't absurd to the point of surreal, as well as bad and potentially dangerous | 20:49 |
AimHere | Infection rates are hard to gauge, because they're clearly undertesting | 20:49 |
friedbat | LjL: he didn't say anyone should do anything. he asked his research team to look into it. | 20:50 |
friedbat | that's all | 20:50 |
LjL | which was ridiculous | 20:50 |
friedbat | anything else is your own interpretation rather than what he said | 20:50 |
LjL | no | 20:50 |
berndj | sigh, i guess i can't postpone it any longer, i'll have to watch the actual clip now | 20:50 |
AimHere | And the worldometers logarithmic chart shows they're still a positive gradient, so somthing approaching an exponential rise, even *with* testing | 20:50 |
AimHere | s/testing/limited testing | 20:50 |
ubLIX | url dump; ALCU, "Principles for Technology-Assisted Contact-Tracing": https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/aclu_white_paper_-_contact_tracing_principles.pdf | 20:51 |
ketas | sadly i can't be tested for curiosity because test are needed for people actually sick... i guess it's even good as positive result would put more restrictions on me | 20:51 |
ketas | tested for curiosity :) | 20:51 |
friedbat | berndj: it | 20:51 |
ketas | i'm curious as cat | 20:51 |
friedbat | berndj: it's not too interesting. it was a dumb question trump asked of his researcher. but now it's being used by trump haters to make up that he said people should drink bleach. | 20:52 |
friedbat | it's sort of a waste of time to watch it, unless you're bored. | 20:52 |
berndj | that's my default assumption, but i want to see for myself to gauge what people are talking about, and compare to reality | 20:52 |
berndj | but searching youtube i get a slew of results titled "Trump suggests ..." and that's immediately a red flag to me | 20:53 |
AimHere | We should have a sweepstake as to how many bleach fatalities there will be in the next two weeks | 20:53 |
AimHere | I'll go with '3' | 20:53 |
LjL | he didn't even mention bleach afaik | 20:53 |
LjL | that's not even the point even if he did | 20:53 |
AimHere | Disinfectant then | 20:54 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:48 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Georgia businesses reopen cautiously as number of US deaths tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 20:54 |
LjL | he mentioned UV and talked about injecting disinfectant, and yes, it was posted as questions to his experts | 20:54 |
LjL | this is at minimum ridiculous; but while he didn't directly TELL people to do it, he's the president of the fucking united states of america and he should DEFINITELY know there is a risk of people actually trying these things if he speaks like that | 20:54 |
LjL | he doesn't, which is RECKLESS | 20:54 |
berndj | he should just not hold press conferences. problem solved | 20:55 |
LjL | berndj, that would not be the worst idea he's had | 20:55 |
LjL | also why isn't the clip from Guardian in my youtube history | 20:55 |
berndj | yeah i don't see him telling or even "suggesting" anything to anyone, he's just rambling about something he heard that he finds interesting, that's how it comes across to me | 20:57 |
LjL | berndj, strange. well the clip is here https://youtu.be/QtgVxGkrX1Y?t=102 in case youtube wasn't helpful in searching for it, although the one i watched was not that one | 20:57 |
friedbat | yeah, that's how it came across to me too. | 20:57 |
LjL | something so absolutely idiotic that you don't have to be a doctor to know it makes no sense, or even anything CLOSE to a doctor | 20:57 |
friedbat | but then it gets hyped by the press and then we have people repeating it forever | 20:57 |
LjL | it is utterly surreal that he'd say things like that | 20:57 |
berndj | i thought UV treatment of blood is a thing | 20:57 |
friedbat | it is | 20:57 |
navonod | a couple trumpets I know are denying he did say that | 20:58 |
friedbat | photopheresis | 20:58 |
navonod | like they always do | 20:58 |
navonod | dude I saw him say that | 20:58 |
navonod | in plain english | 20:58 |
LjL | "HIT THE BODY WITH A TREMENDOUS ULTRAVIOLET OR OTHER POWERFUL LIGHT" is not "UV treatment of blood" | 20:58 |
LjL | UVC bulbs can be bought on amazon | 20:58 |
navonod | "yeah but he doesn't mean what he said.. you're ignorant about how he talks" | 20:58 |
LjL | they fit in a standard lighting fixture | 20:58 |
LjL | and they'll make you blind in a second if you just try that | 20:58 |
LjL | and also give you nice burns all over your skin | 20:58 |
friedbat | berndj: interestingly there are also medical researchers studying the effect of ethanol washes for respiratory tract sars infections :) | 20:58 |
berndj | so don't try it? | 20:59 |
LjL | so if you're the POTUS definitely don't SAY IT | 20:59 |
berndj | he isn't telling anyone to go out and buy aquarium UV lamps or do anything | 20:59 |
AimHere | berndj, but they'll do ti | 20:59 |
AimHere | *it | 20:59 |
LjL | they'll do it and he should know, or at least his advisors should | 20:59 |
LjL | and they probably do, but also can't stop him from saying shit all the time | 20:59 |
LjL | because that's what he does | 21:00 |
AimHere | Just as they dipped into their aquarium supplies when he suggested that chloroquinine or whatever it was gave him a good feeling about a miracle cure | 21:00 |
berndj | yeah well in a country of 330M people there'll be someone who does something stupid no matter what he says | 21:00 |
navonod | like vote for trump | 21:00 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:56 UTC: (news): Trump tries to walk back speculation about injecting disinfectants to fight coronavirus, claims he was being sarcastic → https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/coronavirus-trump-tries-to-walk-back-disinfectant-suggestion-claims-sarcasm.html | 21:01 |
berndj | AimHere, if it were president clinton and she told people to wear masks, there'd be some dumbasses who suffocated themselves from wearing 10 stacked masks too | 21:01 |
navonod | whataboutism isn't a valid arguement | 21:01 |
AimHere | berndj, I seriously doubt that people would wear 10 stacked masks just because it's so ungainly. | 21:01 |
berndj | this isn't whataboutism | 21:01 |
AimHere | And 'wear a mask' isn't actually bad advice | 21:01 |
navonod | no one was talking about 'what xx would do' | 21:01 |
navonod | we're saying what he suggested is irresponsible and dangerous | 21:02 |
navonod | if you can't see that, you are brainwashed | 21:02 |
berndj | by that standard no president can say anything | 21:02 |
propertly | being sarcastic has a president in function | 21:02 |
AimHere | berndj, Which previous president in all of US history has given medical advice that caused people to die? | 21:02 |
friedbat | reality: trump told his researcher to think about how these findings can turn into therapies. non-reality: drumpf said drink bleach and all the deaths resulting from dummies with diy projects are his fault because orange man bad. | 21:03 |
AimHere | I'm struggling to think of a precedent | 21:03 |
berndj | because when last did a US president have any reason to talk about medicine at all | 21:03 |
propertly | he thought he was at the bar | 21:03 |
berndj | yeah, he's very casual, off-the-cuff like that | 21:04 |
propertly | spewing imbecilitys | 21:04 |
AimHere | berndj, Fine. Name one instance where a US president gave advice on a technical matter for which they were unqualified and people took that advice and died as a result? | 21:04 |
AimHere | (Other than barking orders to his subordinates to kill people - all Presidents did that) | 21:05 |
berndj | relax that to WHO and i can name a very recent example ("don't wear masks, they don't protect you etc.") | 21:05 |
friedbat | i actually focused on the presentation by the research guy. it was very interesting stuff. i was amazed at *how much* of a half-life decrease mere sunlight had. | 21:05 |
friedbat | they compared same temp, same humidity, just mimic's sunlight | 21:05 |
friedbat | and it went from 1 hour to 1 minute i think. 60x reduction. | 21:06 |
navonod | those using circular logic generally fail to see/consider anything outside of that cycle | 21:06 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +2814 cases (now 906112), +176 deaths (now 51130) since an hour ago — Michigan, US: +1350 cases (now 36641), +108 deaths (now 3085) since 23 hours ago — Peru: +734 cases (now 21648), +62 deaths (now 634) since a day ago | 21:06 |
AimHere | WHO at least had some qualifications in that matter, and it is possible the scientific consensus changed | 21:06 |
propertly | if he had any sense of honor he would resigned along time ago | 21:06 |
berndj | wow, 1 hour is at the level of "almost hopeless"; 1 minute is at the level of "best case scenario" | 21:06 |
berndj | AimHere: special pleading | 21:06 |
friedbat | berndj: it has policy implications imo | 21:06 |
friedbat | hold events outdoors, for example, university classes | 21:07 |
friedbat | open-air stadiums might be ok for sporting events if you don't use every seat | 21:07 |
friedbat | etc | 21:07 |
berndj | it would have to be outdoors *in the sun* | 21:07 |
friedbat | yes, during sunny days | 21:07 |
propertly | USA the land of the mobster president | 21:07 |
berndj | hmm yeah, interesting | 21:07 |
friedbat | this is not without precedent | 21:08 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:05 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYSE eyes reopening trading floor as US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 21:08 |
ubLIX | "Using feedback, a standard tool in control engineering, we can manage our response to the novel coronavirus pandemic for maximum survival while containing the damage to our economies" - https://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/diagnostics/how-control-theory-can-help-control-covid19 | 21:08 |
AimHere | Kennedy was a mobsters's son | 21:08 |
friedbat | during the 1918 spanish flu, universities often held class outdoors | 21:08 |
berndj | does the UV kill the virus even when it's in the air? or only when on a surface? | 21:08 |
friedbat | surfaces, air, and saliva | 21:08 |
ubLIX | translating control theory to socially observable dictums a different matter | 21:08 |
friedbat | they found sunlight inactivated covid-19 virus in aerosols too | 21:09 |
berndj | ubLIX, yeah, my country is moving to some "analogue response" lockdown thing, and i'm wondering about that too | 21:09 |
propertly | Kennedy was a mobsters's son Lmao | 21:09 |
berndj | loop bandwidth is awful once an already-inefficient government gets added to the feedback network | 21:10 |
berndj | friedbat, that is very, very encouraging | 21:10 |
propertly | mob is the CIA | 21:11 |
friedbat | yes, i feel a lot safer walking outdoors in sunlight than shopping in a grocery store | 21:11 |
propertly | that killed him | 21:11 |
friedbat | berndj: also, it probably means we'll see a slowdown in infection rates in the northern hemisphere soon. | 21:12 |
propertly | trump is KKK | 21:12 |
friedbat | and possibly the opposite in the southern hemisphere | 21:12 |
propertly | KKK = Fbi | 21:12 |
propertly | heil Trump | 21:13 |
ubLIX | propertly: stop this nonsense | 21:13 |
propertly | you know its true | 21:13 |
ubLIX | friedbat: the research you've been alluding to, from the white house, none of it is published, is it? | 21:14 |
friedbat | ubLIX: a preliminary report was leaked | 21:14 |
Birosso | AAAAAAAAAAA | 21:14 |
ubLIX | propertly: i know i don't care about your characterisations | 21:14 |
berndj | friedbat, in my own country with a significant informal economy, street traders are hit hard by not being able to trade, so if they're ok since they're out on the street in the sun, maybe they're not as much of a risk as the government (reasonable) assumed they were | 21:15 |
ubLIX | friedbat: doesn't sound very useful, though i can understand how it might seem comforting, to the extent a leaked document can be believed | 21:15 |
friedbat | ubLIX: it isn't just a leaked document. the document was leaked by the head of the research team presented his findings yesterday. | 21:16 |
friedbat | i have no reason to believe it's not true. do you? | 21:17 |
ubLIX | haven't seen it. got a link? | 21:17 |
berndj | i feel like the meaning of the word "leak" is shifting | 21:17 |
friedbat | sorry, the document wasn't leaked by the head of research. the same findings were presented by him yesterday. | 21:17 |
berndj | because that sounds a lot like "publishing" | 21:17 |
friedbat | berndj: i say leaked because it wasn't dhs that released it but some reporter who got a copy and published it. let me find the link. | 21:18 |
berndj | ah ok, i guess that can still be a "leak" | 21:18 |
berndj | and yeah, i'd love to glance through such a doc | 21:19 |
friedbat | ubLIX / berndj: https://www.scribd.com/document/456897616/DHSST | 21:20 |
berndj | i'll leak that some more to my other retooled-for-covid19 channels | 21:21 |
sternenmusik[m] | <berndj "and yeah, i'd love to glance thr"> Read the quuran or Mein Kampf. | 21:22 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:09 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump tries to backtrack on disinfectant remarks, claiming they were 'sarcastic': Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus ‘cure’ wrote to Trump this week Trump says disinfectant suggestion was sarcasm Trump signs latest coronavirus financial rescue bill Cuomo says coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CgUfXs | 21:22 |
ubLIX | hmm. would rather authority put their name to it, published and including methodologies and estimation models | 21:28 |
Birosso | You're asking for too much. | 21:29 |
Birosso | :( | 21:29 |
friedbat | the guy said this was a work in progress. remember, this isn't a university team. it's government people who study these things in the context of biological attacks | 21:29 |
friedbat | their lab was set up during the anthrax attacks | 21:29 |
friedbat | so they're not trying to get something published in JAMA | 21:30 |
friedbat | they did partner with johns hopkins university for the aerosol tests though. the guy explained they have this huge drum where they can create aerosols and simulate all kinds of weather / climate conditions | 21:31 |
ubLIX | but without publication of methodology and discussion of their estimation-model, their findings can neither be assessed nor replicated; so you're just back to trusting words on the internet | 21:33 |
ubLIX | you might find it possible to trust those words in some degree, but it is not ideal | 21:33 |
berndj | it may be better than nothing | 21:33 |
ubLIX | sure, if you swap analysis of well described process with extensive and possibly inconclusive analysis of the source/motivation of the leak/discussion | 21:35 |
ubLIX | it may be better than nothing | 21:35 |
berndj | the baseline isn't research approved by the scientist high priests; the baseline is not knowing anything | 21:36 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +2869 cases (now 908981), +212 deaths (now 51342) since 32 minutes ago — New Jersey, US: +2171 cases (now 102196), +189 deaths (now 5617) since 18 hours ago — Tennessee, US: +460 cases (now 8726) since 23 hours ago | 21:36 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:33 UTC: (news): Trump tries to walk back speculation about injecting disinfectants to fight coronavirus, claims he was being sarcastic → https://is.gd/TWg9Zq | 21:36 |
ubLIX | but does reading that document cause you to "know" anything | 21:37 |
ubLIX | suggestive of the merits of further enquiry != know | 21:37 |
berndj | adjusting bayesian priors == knowing something | 21:37 |
ubLIX | i wonder if this adjusts any priors: https://eu.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/22/iowa-family-behind-reopen-covid-19-protests-popping-up-across-country/3005696001/ | 21:39 |
berndj | if you treat the epistemological universe as a binary containing "things we know" and "things we don't know", then yeah, maybe we don't know anything new. but the world isn't binary like that | 21:39 |
ubLIX | fair | 21:39 |
ubLIX | i guess i'm just feeling that if they have results from definitive methods, then they should publish | 21:41 |
berndj | friedbat, i (still) find it really surprising that the virus seems to be happier dry than humid | 21:43 |
berndj | maybe they don't have a mandate to publish - or worse, a mandate to NOT publish | 21:45 |
mefistofeles | it's probably the latter | 21:46 |
mefistofeles | why on earth they would want to keep this to themselves unless it has reasonable doubt it's valid | 21:46 |
berndj | because maybe weapons labs aren't supposed to publish | 21:47 |
propertly | china got working covid vaccine | 21:48 |
livebrain | how do you know that ? | 21:49 |
livebrain | that china has a working vaccine | 21:50 |
propertly | its in the news | 21:50 |
berndj | "working" does not equal "ready for widespread use" | 21:50 |
propertly | already tested on monkeys | 21:50 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 19:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus test website reopens for bookings after 'significant demand' → https://is.gd/N1GvNb | 21:51 |
propertly | human trials have started | 21:51 |
ubLIX | another note on combining tech-based and pavement-pounding forms of contact tracing: https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/contact-tracing-technology-a-key-to-reopening.html | 21:51 |
ubLIX | "The technology on its own really can’t do the job. We need people who can ask questions and try to understand the type of exposure that might have occurred because not all exposures are equal." | 21:51 |
ubLIX | propertly: "has the vaccine" is premature | 21:51 |
propertly | it worked on monkeys | 21:52 |
livebrain | last time i saw im not a monkey | 21:52 |
ubLIX | hence premature | 21:52 |
livebrain | its good news for monkeys though | 21:52 |
berndj | that's cool and all, but that spells "we're on the right track" and not "in a month we can begin injecting billions of people with a vaccine" | 21:53 |
propertly | guess what you are a monkey too | 21:53 |
berndj | no, monkeys are a different taxon than we fall into | 21:53 |
livebrain | well ppl dont seem to freak out when go out in public | 21:53 |
berndj | we're "great apes", not "monkeys" | 21:53 |
livebrain | so im a bald. wearing glasses monkey | 21:53 |
propertly | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate | 21:54 |
berndj | all monkeys are primates; all primates are not monkeys | 21:55 |
berndj | propertly, we still need to figure out if that vaccine causes other problems. "cross reactivity" or "interference" or whatever | 21:56 |
berndj | because sars-cov-2 isn't the only virus in the world | 21:56 |
propertly | ofcourse | 21:56 |
berndj | so i'm glad this vaccine is "working" (in monkeys), but we're still a long way from being able to get a shot and be able to go to the bioscope again | 21:57 |
livebrain | from testing to having a working vaccine | 21:57 |
livebrain | its still a long way to go | 21:57 |
livebrain | china is not the only country that is testing | 21:57 |
propertly | it worked on monkeys | 21:57 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:53 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYSE eyes reopening trading floor as US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 21:58 |
propertly | they infected the monkeys after vaccination | 21:58 |
propertly | no go for the virus | 21:58 |
LjL | yes that is sort of how a vaccine is supposed to do its job | 22:00 |
LjL | but i think you successfully made the point that it works on some monkeys | 22:00 |
propertly | if even cats can get covid | 22:00 |
LjL | there are other countries currently testing vaccines on humans, fwiw | 22:00 |
propertly | did they worked on the monkeys? | 22:01 |
propertly | if not its just bs | 22:01 |
friedbat | berndj: if you mean the dhs finding, they found the virus does better in dry than humid. not the other way around. | 22:02 |
propertly | well will see son | 22:02 |
berndj | friedbat, yes, and i find that surprising. don't biological things usually prefer a wet environment? | 22:04 |
ubLIX | i found that surprising too, but i'm not a biologist | 22:04 |
berndj | eventually the virus has to infect a wet, warm interface after all | 22:04 |
friedbat | berndj: i am not sure what the mechanisms at play are. but this is known with influenza that is more readily transmitted in drier climate | 22:05 |
propertly | like seeds? | 22:05 |
LjL | propertly, they wouldn't be testing them on humans if they hadn't seemed to work on animal models | 22:05 |
sternenmusik[m] | 5G is warm and dry. Perfect for CV2. | 22:05 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:57 UTC: (news): Trump tries to walk back speculation about injecting disinfectants to fight coronavirus, claims he was being sarcastic → https://is.gd/TWg9Zq | 22:05 |
propertly | seemed to work =! actully worked | 22:05 |
propertly | well will see son | 22:06 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +3029 cases (now 912010), +111 deaths (now 51453) since 32 minutes ago — Illinois, US: +2724 cases (now 39658), +107 deaths (now 1795) since a day ago — Utah, US: +170 cases (now 3782) since 21 hours ago | 22:06 |
LjL | i'm not your son, though | 22:06 |
propertly | soon | 22:07 |
sternenmusik[m] | Soon. | 22:07 |
sternenmusik[m] | ... 😂 | 22:07 |
ubLIX | 10 days old but perhaps still a useful overview for non-scientists, "SARS-CoV-2 Vaccines: Status Report": https://www.cell.com/immunity/pdf/S1074-7613(20)30120-5.pdf | 22:07 |
ubLIX | ^ propertly | 22:08 |
friedbat | berndj: here's a study on influenza & humidity -> https://www.pnas.org/content/106/9/3243 | 22:08 |
sternenmusik[m] | Actully son propertly. | 22:08 |
ubLIX | sternenmusik[m]: too much nonsense. will you stop? | 22:09 |
LjL | "The CFR is disproportionallyhigh in Italy (currently 7.3%)" ← such optimism in 10-day-old paper, ubLIX | 22:09 |
LjL | beep_[m]... what? | 22:10 |
friedbat | berndj: apparently relative (or absolute) humidity affects things in two ways: decreased transmission (droplets fall faster to the ground) and reduced survival (virus inactivates faster with higher humidity) | 22:11 |
beep_[m] | Just thoughts | 22:11 |
LjL | water is a powerful solvent | 22:12 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:08 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYSE eyes reopening trading floor as US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 22:12 |
sternenmusik[m] | <ubLIX "sternenmusik: too much nonsense."> Yes. | 22:12 |
mefistofeles | propertly: no, China doesn't have a working vaccine, they are in phase II of human trials | 22:13 |
mefistofeles | so that means basically an expanded clinical trial with different age groups and so on | 22:13 |
mefistofeles | why was propertly muted? | 22:14 |
ubLIX | because he will reply to you with "yes, but the monkeys" | 22:15 |
mefistofeles | ubLIX: ok, but the monkeys never muted him | 22:15 |
mefistofeles | ;) | 22:15 |
mefistofeles | we will not get these confused people any less confused by muting them that fast, they wasn't asked to stop or warned in any way, was they? | 22:18 |
mefistofeles | weren't* | 22:18 |
mefistofeles | freaking singular they, still trying to get used to | 22:18 |
ubLIX | as you wish | 22:19 |
ubLIX | oh, it's left | 22:19 |
mefistofeles | yes, they left | 22:19 |
ubLIX | seemed to me to have demonstrated well enough its incapacity or unintention to make sense | 22:21 |
Sinovac | https://www.livescience.com/experimental-covid19-vaccine-protects-monkeys.html | 22:22 |
berndj | seemed trollish | 22:22 |
ubLIX | indeed, berndj | 22:22 |
berndj | not just confused | 22:22 |
friedbat | one thing that is being observed lately are clotting complications. have you heard of this? | 22:23 |
friedbat | people are getting blood clots all over, in including brain strokes. | 22:23 |
mefistofeles | berndj: indeed | 22:23 |
mefistofeles | but muting without warning doesn't really solve anything, from my experience it makes it worse | 22:24 |
ubLIX | and not just older people, friedbat | 22:24 |
berndj | friedbat, i'm picking up a lot of chatter about erythrocyte stuff lately | 22:24 |
mefistofeles | friedbat: I read that, yes | 22:24 |
tinwhiskers | Welcome back Sinovac (propertly). Please don't just keep repeating the same thing. Did you have a point? | 22:24 |
mefistofeles | friedbat: I have yet to see a scientific study/report on that | 22:24 |
friedbat | yes, not only old people. in fact the story i read suggested they're seeing strokes in younger (otherwise healthy) patients | 22:25 |
mefistofeles | friedbat: yes, but again, absolute numbers don't really say much here | 22:25 |
berndj | maybe because they're locked down and getting thromboses from all the sitting? | 22:26 |
friedbat | berndj: speaking of erythrocyte, i wonder if sars2 attacks the blood | 22:26 |
friedbat | it could explain the hypoxia if it hits hemoglobin | 22:26 |
berndj | yeah, but plain old fashioned lung rektage also explains hypoxia, no? | 22:26 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 20:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus test website reopens for bookings after 'significant demand' → https://is.gd/N1GvNb | 22:26 |
friedbat | berndj: the lung wreckage is an inflammatory response. what if the hypoxia comes from the blood problem and then the lungs are forced to overcompensante (no effective O2 exchange) and that causes the lung response? | 22:27 |
mefistofeles | friedbat: I don't think erythrocytes express ACE2, so it's not likely, but there are still other receptors that could allow it | 22:28 |
mefistofeles | such as T-cless getting infected by other receptors | 22:28 |
mefistofeles | cells* | 22:28 |
berndj | friedbat, i don't see how lungs having to work harder would cause an inflammatory response? | 22:28 |
berndj | mefistofeles, do erythrocytes express *anything*? | 22:28 |
friedbat | berndj: there is a lot of literature of pulmonary problems (including pneumonia, edema, etc) from high altitude sickness (where the blood carries less O2) | 22:29 |
mefistofeles | berndj: I know they express a lot of things when infected with things, but not sure in other conditions | 22:29 |
berndj | they're basically "dead cells" aren't they? no cell nucleus in adults or something? | 22:30 |
tinwhiskers | Sinovac: there's quite a bit of testing after monkey trials before you can really say the vaccine is safe. For example it could trigger antibody dependent enhancement to some people who have previously experienced another virus. The last thing we need with the current antivaxer movement is a vaccine that hasn't been tested properly and kills people. | 22:30 |
friedbat | i'm not saying this is happening here, just tossing out the possibility. | 22:30 |
mefistofeles | berndj: they do, actually | 22:30 |
mefistofeles | now that I remember, at least the Duffy antigen they have to express | 22:30 |
mefistofeles | which is related to malaria infection | 22:30 |
ecks | ever heard about this thing called blood groups | 22:31 |
mefistofeles | LjL: yes, high altitude pulmonary edema | 22:31 |
Sinovac | antivaxer can die from covid to make point | 22:31 |
mefistofeles | ecks: ah of course | 22:31 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, you served him this ball. the last thing we need *in general* is a vaccine that hasn't been tested properly and kills people. who cares about antivaxers or not... we certainly need to make this vaccine move faster than usual, but it certainly shouldn't end up making a bad situation worse | 22:32 |
tinwhiskers | Sinovac: so there's several vaccines in testing now and we have just as much hope for every one of them that the testing will go well, but let's not place all our trust in one particular vaccine candidate yet | 22:33 |
mefistofeles | there are dozens (or maybe hundreds) of vaccine candidates being developed right now | 22:34 |
mefistofeles | yesterday I shared the list from the WHO | 22:34 |
mefistofeles | shouldn't be hard to find | 22:34 |
Sinovac | covid can alter the blood cells to the point of being attacked by the immune system the same way has if they come from another blood group? | 22:36 |
berndj | and every person infected with the virus is making their very own idiosyncratic endogenous vaccine | 22:37 |
friedbat | obviously vaccine development is important. but it's really a long-term issue. i mean, it's good to know they're working on it, but we won't have one for 1.5 years or more. | 22:37 |
mefistofeles | Sinovac: don't think so, hasn't been observed either | 22:37 |
tinwhiskers | It can cause a cytokine storm which does cause the body to attack healthy cells so it's similar in some ways | 22:37 |
friedbat | berndj: and there are now reports of recoveries with minimal antibody development | 22:37 |
mefistofeles | friedbat: true, even 1.5 years would be a record | 22:37 |
friedbat | mefistofeles: agreed | 22:38 |
Sinovac | thats the tcells going beserk | 22:38 |
berndj | friedbat, yeah, i was wondering earlier, can antibodies even "see" a respiratory tract infection? | 22:38 |
friedbat | berndj: that's how flu vaccines work | 22:38 |
berndj | i thought i saw john campbell mention that there's no virus in the blood?? | 22:38 |
LjL | how can there be no virus in the blood | 22:39 |
berndj | so how do the antibodies get to where they need to be? | 22:39 |
LjL | how can it impact the liver, the kidneys, etc etc with no virus in the blood | 22:39 |
berndj | LjL, i don't know, just quoting something i half-heard | 22:39 |
friedbat | it has to be in the blood | 22:39 |
mefistofeles | there's virus in the blood | 22:40 |
mefistofeles | yes | 22:40 |
berndj | why does it "have to" be, as a general rule anyway? | 22:40 |
friedbat | which is why some people were worried about possible bloodborne (ie mosquito vector) | 22:40 |
LjL | i find it odd. however, i don't remember where *i* heard that, indeed, the immune system is not too active in the respiratory tract... i only remember it was something about vaccines for this | 22:40 |
friedbat | that would suck | 22:40 |
friedbat | if it were like zika that way | 22:40 |
LjL | but i can't even remember if it was something i heard or something i read :( | 22:40 |
LjL | i seem to have a lot of difficulties "placing" memories | 22:40 |
friedbat | we're finding out a lot | 22:41 |
berndj | LjL, i know there are some immunoprivileged domains, but i don't recall the respiratory system being one of them | 22:41 |
Arsanerit | It would be nice if herd immunity could be reached sooner than expected. | 22:41 |
friedbat | so now they suspect that it attacks the blood. and also, they suspect it attacks the nervous system (which is consistent with peopel losing the sense of smell) | 22:41 |
LjL | berndj, no, not as far as being immunoprivileged, but it's pretty much "outside" the body | 22:41 |
berndj | LjL, oh man me too, i'd absolutely suck as an academic for that reason | 22:41 |
friedbat | fucking virus | 22:41 |
berndj | all my papers would end like "References: 1. I dunno man, i found it somewhere in my brain" | 22:42 |
mefistofeles | T-celss do get infected | 22:42 |
mefistofeles | cells* | 22:42 |
berndj | at what *rate*? | 22:42 |
mefistofeles | but the virus is not able to reproduce there | 22:43 |
mefistofeles | so it basically just degrades there | 22:43 |
berndj | are there in fact any types of cell that the virus steadfastly *won't* infect? | 22:43 |
mefistofeles | plenty, erythrocytes so far have not seen to be infected | 22:43 |
berndj | i'm just wondering if some of this is like radioactivity. our detection technology is so sensitive that *everything* is "radioactive". does that mean we should worry about eating this "radioactive" banana? no | 22:47 |
NoImNotNineVolt | obligatory radiation chart: https://xkcd.com/radiation/ | 22:47 |
NoImNotNineVolt | 2 blue boxes = 1 banana | 22:47 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 20:43 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: A domani → https://is.gd/cTMI6U | 22:48 |
friedbat | it's amazing how radioactive tobacco plants are. | 22:48 |
NoImNotNineVolt | they are? | 22:48 |
LjL | berndj, it might have actually been on youtube videos about Ebola, so in that case it would have been mentioned in general, not for COVID-19 in particular (and Ebola isn't a respiratory tract virus so i can't quite place why i think that's where i've heard it anyway) | 22:48 |
mefistofeles | NoImNotNineVolt: hah that's a nice one | 22:49 |
NoImNotNineVolt | how many bananas-worth of radiation is there in a tobacco plant?! | 22:49 |
friedbat | yeah, i forget how it all works but both the fertilizer used and the surrounding environment make tobacco plant produce polonium-210 | 22:50 |
friedbat | i wonder if we could drop lung cancer rates from smoking just by using cleaner tobacco | 22:50 |
NoImNotNineVolt | they don't produce it, they just "distill" it out of the soil. | 22:51 |
NoImNotNineVolt | heavy element uptake is a thing for many plants. | 22:51 |
berndj | search keyword: phytomining | 22:51 |
NoImNotNineVolt | trying to read through https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672370/ | 22:51 |
friedbat | yeah, they absorb the radon and then the decay byproduct polonium-210 gives you all kinds of lung crabs | 22:52 |
NoImNotNineVolt | Takizawa et al. [15] reported that the range of 210Po contained in the tobacco grands in Japan varied from 13.0 to 20.1 Bq kg−1 (mean 15.4 Bq kg−1) | 22:52 |
LjL | %title https://twitter.com/arimakio/status/1239149214266949632 | 22:52 |
Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Ari MäkiÖ su Twitter: "How to tell your 4 year old why we wash our hands with soap: #COVIDー19 #washyourhands #staysmartandhealthy… " | 22:52 |
LjL | (just kinda cute) | 22:52 |
NoImNotNineVolt | and then i guess to go from bq to sv it depends on method of ingestion.. | 22:53 |
friedbat | you also get lead-210 from the radon but polonium-210 is an alpha emitter so it's more worrisome | 22:53 |
friedbat | is all that gone from vaping cartridges? | 22:54 |
NoImNotNineVolt | The collective committed effective dose resulting from the use of cigarettes produced in Brazil per year was estimated to be 1.5x104 man Sv, considering an annual production of 5x108 kg of cigarettes in Brazil and the committed effective dose of 0.16 mSv y−1 of cigarette smoking. | 22:54 |
NoImNotNineVolt | that might be enough to convert to bananas... | 22:54 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYSE eyes reopening trading floor as US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 22:55 |
friedbat | NoImNotNineVolt: can you do the conversion? would be interesting. and also important to know before trying to smoke a plantain. | 22:57 |
NoImNotNineVolt | i tried and it wasn't adding up. too lazy to try again. sorry :P | 22:58 |
NoImNotNineVolt | i quit smoking a few years ago otherwise i'd be more motivated :P | 22:58 |
berndj | how do you get the alpha emission from the cigarette (where the tobacco leaves are) into your lungs (where only the smoke it)? | 22:59 |
mefistofeles | LjL: that's genius | 23:00 |
friedbat | the smoke has polonium-210 | 23:00 |
pyna | huh neat | 23:00 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:53 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump tries to backtrack on disinfectant remarks, claiming they were 'sarcastic': Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus ‘cure’ wrote to Trump this week Trump says disinfectant suggestion was sarcasm Trump signs latest coronavirus financial rescue bill Cuomo says coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CgUfXs | 23:02 |
berndj | friedbat, but how? i'd expect high-Z atoms to stay behind in the ash, not get incorporated into partial-combustion products | 23:02 |
friedbat | berndj: i don't know | 23:03 |
friedbat | i am 1000% sure this has been studied by thousands of people though. i bet you have luck with google. | 23:03 |
Arsanerit | that's a lot of % | 23:06 |
pyna | hmm, how many tide pods should i eat to protect myself from cigarettes | 23:08 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 21:04 UTC: (news): Coronavirus test website reopens for bookings after 'significant demand' → https://is.gd/N1GvNb | 23:09 |
pyna | every trump press conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_83MEuLoz9Y | 23:10 |
Sinovac | T-cells | 23:14 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:09 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump tries to backtrack on disinfectant remarks, claiming they were 'sarcastic': Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus ‘cure’ wrote to Trump this week Trump says disinfectant suggestion was sarcasm Trump signs latest coronavirus financial rescue bill Cuomo says coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CgUfXs | 23:17 |
dataman | NBC put out the disinfectant commentary, not POTUS | 23:19 |
dataman | watch the video, he doesnt say it at all | 23:19 |
dataman | he talks about light as a disinfectant | 23:19 |
dataman | something well known and long used | 23:19 |
dataman | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4783265/ | 23:19 |
navonod | this convo again? | 23:20 |
navonod | really | 23:20 |
LjL | %title https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3081330/coronavirus-covid-19-us-earlier-first-thought-and | 23:28 |
Brainstorm | LjL: From www.scmp.com: Coronavirus: Covid-19 was in US earlier than first thought. Here’s why that’s important to know | South China Morning Post | 23:28 |
LjL | i thought this was being investigated but not ascertained yet, apparently it has | 23:28 |
dataman | I was in Japan in December and got sick. The police were handing out tissue packs in front of the hotel in Kyoto. | 23:30 |
dataman | Not a normal thing for police to do; in any country. | 23:30 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:26 UTC: Citing a high risk of death, researchers cut chloroquine coronavirus study short over safety concerns: Scientists say the findings should "serve to curb the exuberant use" of the drug, which has been touted by President Trump as a potential "game changer" in the fight against the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/xUkqKf | 23:31 |
LjL | dataman, i don't recall unquieting you | 23:31 |
dataman | Doubt you did, you're too scared of what I have to say about the fake pandemic. | 23:32 |
mefistofeles | :/ | 23:32 |
ecks | what about the real pandemic? | 23:33 |
Sinovac | President Trump what covid victims to die fast so to get back to business as usual | 23:33 |
Sinovac | whant | 23:33 |
dataman | We have viral outbreaks this bad or worse every year | 23:33 |
mefistofeles | dataman: not at all | 23:33 |
dataman | we just call them the flu because no one gets tested, even if they go into the ER | 23:33 |
dataman | the ER wont test you if you have flu symptoms, they treat you and send you home, 99% are better before results come in anyway | 23:34 |
Sinovac | there was no test | 23:34 |
mefistofeles | the excess of deaths caused by this one are up to 70% or so, in european countries | 23:34 |
Sinovac | who cares flu is good for business | 23:34 |
dataman | cold and flu are nomenclature, if its mild it's the cold - if it's bad it's the flu | 23:34 |
ecks | fake deaths! | 23:34 |
Sinovac | sells drugs | 23:34 |
dataman | influenza is a virus that's associated with bad sickness, there are many others - like coronavirus | 23:34 |
nixonix | We found 198 physician deaths from COVID-19, but complete details were missing for 49 individuals. The average age of the physicians that died was 63.4 years (range 28 to 90 years) and the median age was 66 years of age. Ninety percent of the deceased physicians were male (175/194). https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.05.20054494v1 | 23:34 |
nixonix | %title | 23:35 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Physician Deaths from Corona Virus Disease (COVID-19) | medRxiv | 23:35 |
LjL | at least he gave me the opportunity to show the initial quiet was quiet warranted | 23:35 |
Sinovac | hes from the original covid-18 channel | 23:36 |
LjL | what | 23:36 |
Sinovac | #COVID-19 vs ##coronavirus | 23:37 |
LjL | he's not in ##coronavirus | 23:37 |
Sinovac | #COVID-19 vs ##covid-19 | 23:37 |
Sinovac | sorry | 23:37 |
LjL | cs info ##covid-19 | 23:37 |
Sinovac | # = official | 23:37 |
LjL | so that's the "original" by virtue of being in the wrong namespace and created after this one? | 23:37 |
LjL | no | 23:37 |
Sinovac | ## not official | 23:38 |
LjL | no | 23:38 |
Sinovac | ? | 23:38 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:33 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: California launches meal delivery program for seniors, US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 23:38 |
LjL | that's not what they mean | 23:38 |
rager | just join Matrix and have a better itme | 23:38 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +3528 cases (now 915538), +239 deaths (now 51692) since an hour ago — Brazil: +1922 cases (now 52995), +263 deaths (now 3670) since 5 hours ago — Pennsylvania, US: +1497 cases (now 40149), +51 deaths (now 1736) since 5 hours ago | 23:39 |
LjL | and unless the founder of #COVID-19 actually has some kind of open source of community-driven project called COVID-19, or they're actually the WHO, they're simply occupying the # namespace without really being entitled to it. which happens pretty commonly, but doesn't make anything official. | 23:39 |
LjL | rager, sure, and get messages about half an hour later! :P | 23:39 |
Sinovac | messages have to go thru censorship 1st | 23:40 |
rager | come now, the delay is more like 2-10s on the bridge at worst | 23:40 |
rager | I've been meaning to get my own bridge setup, beeen too lazy | 23:40 |
bin_bash | nuke the bridge from orbit | 23:40 |
LjL | Sinovac, do you want to be living proof of it? | 23:42 |
LjL | rager, yeah what's more confusing is when they come out of order or some are just missed, though | 23:42 |
pyna | "< ecks> what about the real pandemic?" i lol'd | 23:44 |
rager | I've had a mostly fine experience | 23:44 |
rager | only problem rn is one channel's totally unusable because it's doubling everything :\ | 23:44 |
NoImNotNineVolt | LjL: that channel is poorly moderated. | 23:45 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:38 UTC: Coronavirus live news: US Covid-19 death toll passes 50,000: Sweden reports highest number of new cases; WHO launches €7.5bn fundraising bid; Russian cases jump by more than 5,000 in a day → https://is.gd/8YgT7t | 23:45 |
LjL | rager, oh? | 23:45 |
LjL | NoImNotNineVolt, i feel i am not surprised | 23:46 |
mefistofeles | I feel most popular/active channels in freenode become poorly moderated with enough time | 23:46 |
NoImNotNineVolt | (i tried to engage dataman in rational debate in the other poorly-moderated channel, but it wasn't possible to stay on topic) | 23:47 |
nixonix | apr 16 article, about deaths in lombardy and austria (above mortality average numbers): https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries | 23:48 |
nixonix | %title | 23:48 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.economist.com: Covid-19 data - Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries | Graphic detail | The Economist | 23:48 |
mefistofeles | nixonix: yes, that's a good one | 23:48 |
mefistofeles | there's also from the NYT with other countries | 23:49 |
mefistofeles | also one* | 23:49 |
NoImNotNineVolt | euromomo does a great job of tracking mortality in europe | 23:49 |
NoImNotNineVolt | ah, just saw the economist link is backed by euromomo data | 23:50 |
mefistofeles | yes, sadly they don't have Germany data | 23:50 |
LjL | euromomo just revamped their website | 23:50 |
LjL | mefistofeles, bit confused about that. their older site, i thought it had germany, even though it still had... Hesse? separately | 23:51 |
mefistofeles | LjL: Berlin and Hesse | 23:51 |
LjL | NoImNotNineVolt, how does the economist get data about Lombardy or Madrid specifically though? the euromomo website only has country-level data, with like two exceptions | 23:51 |
nixonix | yeah, graphs are good in it, but too bad the table has mixed in data from march, when there wasnt that many sars-2 fatalities at that time in many countries. and variance between years messes the results. prob is, that in many countries data wasnt available from most of april | 23:52 |
nixonix | this seems to have mostly stuff from that nyt article, but also refers to that economist article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8241943/Unexplained-extra-deaths-coronavirus-death-toll-FAR-higher-official-figures.html | 23:53 |
nixonix | %title | 23:53 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.dailymail.co.uk: Unexplained extra deaths show coronavirus death toll is FAR higher than official figures | Daily Mail Online | 23:53 |
LjL | and they only managed to add FAR as uppercase scareword! | 23:53 |
mefistofeles | LjL: so just a small ortion of the info, and I don't even think they have that Hesse or Berlin information correctly, since that's not showing any change with the virus, and I don't think that's the case | 23:53 |
ubLIX | the footer on the economist article: "Sources: ECDC; ISTAT; Ministero della Salute; Instituto de Salud Carlos III; Datadista; INSEE; Santé Publique France; ONS; Centraal Bureau van Statistiek; CDC; New York City Health; Provinsi DKI Jakarta; Statistiska Centralbyran; Epistat; Sciensano; Statistik Austria; Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality" | 23:53 |
mefistofeles | *portion | 23:53 |
nixonix | i think in nyc they estimated extra mortality to be over 5k when the official number was just over 15k (no source handy) | 23:54 |
nb | my state's governor just ordered that elective procedures may begin Monday morning | 23:54 |
nixonix | after they had added those few thousands, i think a bit over a week ago (in nyc) | 23:54 |
Sinovac | maybe thers another virus helping covid | 23:55 |
mefistofeles | nixonix: daily mail :/ I suggest not using that as any source of information | 23:55 |
nb | positive cases keep going up, but i think that is because there is more testing | 23:55 |
mefistofeles | nb: yes, most likely | 23:56 |
Sinovac | could be that other virus is at play making covid deadlier? | 23:56 |
nixonix | mefistofeles: it has sources to nyt and economist | 23:56 |
mefistofeles | there's a really high correlation between testing and cases, and so far, results from antibodies tests suggest that there are much more cases than expected | 23:57 |
mefistofeles | nixonix: yes, but the headline is ... problematic, to say the least | 23:57 |
nixonix | tabloids make money with them | 23:57 |
nb | mefistofeles, although i'm curious if the rumors of the antibody tests cross-reacting with other coronaviruses skew the results much | 23:58 |
mefistofeles | nixonix: exactly, I would avoid tabloids in any of this | 23:58 |
nixonix | do as you like | 23:58 |
mefistofeles | nixonix: relax | 23:58 |
Sinovac | I wouldt be surprised that most people already had covid | 23:59 |
mefistofeles | nb: the antibodies tests are pretty specific, not real reson to believe they are not having a good accuracy | 23:59 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: California launches meal delivery program for seniors, US death toll tops 50,000 → https://is.gd/voAMk1 | 23:59 |
mefistofeles | Sinovac: yes, that's likely... not sure if "most", but many more than thought, surely | 23:59 |
LjL | Sinovac, i would, considering that's not what antibody tests that were performed in NY or Germany showed | 23:59 |
Sinovac | wouldnt | 23:59 |
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