libera/##covid-19/ Wednesday, 2020-04-29

BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:57 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 1 million, California to 'gradually' reopen once testing, tracing improves → https://is.gd/OtEp4A00:04
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 22:20 UTC: Vice President Mike Pence tours Mayo Clinic without coronavirus mask even though he was told to wear one: Vice President Mike Pence, who leads the White House's coronavirus task force, visited the Mayo Clinic without a mask. The facility requires everyone to wear a mask to avoid potentially spreading the virus that [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GIOA8K00:25
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 22:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 1 million, lawmakers urge airlines to make face masks mandatory → https://is.gd/OtEp4A00:32
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Dr. Anthony Fauci warns US could ‘be in for a bad fall’ if coronavirus treatments don’t work (10281 votes) | https://redd.it/g9opaq00:45
mefistofeleshttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2271-3 more evidence towards the aerosol transmission00:59
BrainstormUpdates for US: +3352 cases (now 1033230), +444 deaths (now 59084) since an hour ago — Pennsylvania, US: +1441 cases (now 44705), +186 deaths (now 2046) since 6 hours ago — Brazil: +1013 cases (now 72899) since an hour ago01:05
friedbatthere's probably some degree of aerosol contagion but i imagine in settings with close exposure to aerosols produced via intubation/cough etc01:06
friedbatbut not the kind of aersolization you see with measles which means you can get it from going into an elevator after someone infected has recently been in it01:06
LjLfriedbat, "The concentration of SARS-CoV-2 RNA in aerosols detected in isolation wards and ventilated patient rooms was very low, but it was elevated in the patients’ toilet areas" ← this would seemingly contradict that idea01:06
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 23:04 UTC: Trump says US will be able to run 5 million coronavirus tests per day 'very soon': At the average rate of around 157,000 tests run a day in April, it would take almost 6 years to test everyone in the U.S. just once. → https://is.gd/SWgzQg01:07
LjLi'm betting you can get it from an elevator, and in China they've gone to great (and sometimes slightly funny) lengths to avoid elevator contamination by having strict protocols for pressing buttons, but my bet is that they think elevators are dangerous because of the buttons but in reality it's mostly because of the enclosed air01:07
LjLelevators at the opposite of ventilated01:08
friedbatLjL: interesting but their table 1 doesn't see m to show it01:12
friedbattheir highest concentration is in an ICU at Renmin Hospital (113)01:13
friedbatthey have one mobile "toilet" sample at FangCang with 1901:14
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 23:10 UTC: (news): Trump says US will be able to run 5 million coronavirus tests per day 'very soon,' despite shortages across states → https://is.gd/SWgzQg01:14
LjLfriedbat, i'll go ahead and admit i only read the abstract. i do have my own opinionated idea on aerosolization01:15
friedbati don't believe it's a major source of transmission unless you have close contact or lots of aersol production01:17
friedbatalso the problem with many of these studies, and i think this study is included in that, is that they look for evidence of rna fragments01:19
friedbatrather than viable virus01:19
LjLfriedbat, that's all valid criticism. the thing that annoys me is that we don't *really* know one way or the other, and yet authorities often insist that it just *isn't* a major source of transmission01:21
LjLyou are of the opinion that it isn't01:21
LjLi am of the opinion that it is01:21
LjLbut i think we both recognize hard and fast studies are lacking from either side01:21
LjLso it rubs me the wrong way when it's stated as certain01:22
friedbatyes, we don't know how much of the tranmission is due to aerosols and in which sorts of settings.01:22
friedbati suspect it's highest in indoor settings with lots of aerosol production (like wards with many covid patients getting intubated and/or coughing)01:23
friedbatLjL: i agree with your feeling on getting pissed at how authorities make claims with certainty when things are uncertain01:25
LjLfriedbat, this is obviously an opinionated paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7151430/ but i wonder the same as the authors do when they ask, since we know SARS-COV-2 is similar to SARS-COV-1, and we know the latter is airborne, why on earth would we assume or even presume the former isn't?01:25
friedbati have the same objection when authorities use "models" to claim with certainty that millions will die so we all need to lose our jobs.01:25
LjLand then there is https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973 which can be considered flawed due to the aerosols being mechanically produced, but again, why 1 but somehow not 2?01:26
friedbati think we both agree that aerosol transmission occurs01:27
LjLi can see models oscillating wildly but i don't personally place the bar at "millions" to say it's lives worth saving. but i get it, it's not the same for everyone due to a number of factors. still, what i can say about watching https://covid19.healthdata.org/italy which i believe is a highly-considered model in the US is that they have kept *under*estimating the deaths for italy. it used to say 20000 not so many days ago, now it clearly has to say more 01:27
LjLsince they are *already* more01:27
friedbatbut i believe outside of settings that naturally produce lots of aerosols it's either respiratory droplet (meaning you need to be close) or fomite (touching a door handle or elevator button)01:28
LjLfriedbat, yes but i don't see why it would be so minor as to be practically ignorable except in hospital settings. there are many places with poor air circulation, or with "bad" air recirculation like A/C on public transport, or what have you01:28
friedbatbecause i don't think we produce much aerosols normally01:29
friedbatsure, if you have a closed bus with poor circulation and maybe a 6-hour ride01:29
LjLfriedbat, why does it happen with measles?01:29
friedbatthen you might get it if you're in the air circulation path of the infected person01:29
friedbatthe aerodynamics of that virus are different. it stays suspended in air longer01:30
friedbatbut i don't know, maybe they are less fragile, better lipid envelopes, etc.01:32
friedbatwe'd need a virologist in here to explain what makes a virus more prone to aerosol transmission01:32
friedbatmaybe it'll end up being a much bigger form of transmission than some of us suspect, who knows. i am very interested to read more evidence.01:37
LjLit's just a feeling for me that rather high infectivity and some "big" infectious events are hard to explain with just a direct cough-on-your-face model01:39
mefistofelesLjL: how is influenza transmitted? I don't think it's ariborne, is it?01:41
mefistofelesbut still it does a pretty good job at infecting people01:41
LjLmefistofeles, well aside from "airborne" apparently meaning a lot of different things to different people, influenza has an R0 of 1.301:41
mefistofelesand in this case, this one may be worse considering the high proportion of asymptomatic cases01:42
LjLso my "feeling" doesn't really apply, it is not highly infective in this sense01:42
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 23:40 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: push for private schools to reopen as nursing home records more 'tragic' deaths – latest updates → https://is.gd/3vrhIg01:42
LjLit does a pretty good job of infecting people because it mutates just enough to fool us every year, not because it's *highly* infectious01:42
friedbatinfluenza is mainly droplet (so coughing/sneezing/heavy breathing) but some aerosol in settings where lots of aerosol is produced (like hospitals)01:42
mefistofelesLjL: no, I mean every strain (independent from mutation) infects a large amount of people every season01:43
LjLalso, influenza is massively transmitted by children. less school results in less influenza. with this one, the children issue is quite unclear still01:43
LjLmefistofeles, yes, and the R0 is 1.01:43
LjL301:43
LjLhere we're talking something like 2.5 according to initial estimates but then more like 5 and then according to the highest number i've seen in a study, 11 or so01:44
LjLso influenza is not highly infectious01:44
mefistofelesI think initial estimates were off, tbh01:44
LjLeventually anything above 1 infects everyone, if they are not immune01:44
mefistofelesbut yeah, the problem here is the asymptomatic01:44
mefistofelesthat's the special thing01:44
friedbatthere can be other reasons for a low R0, like previous exposure to very similar influenza strains. when you have novel ones like 1917 or h1n1, the flu R0 is a lot higher01:44
friedbatso it's not only a matter of airborne vs. not-airborne01:44
mefistofelestrue, there are many reasons01:45
friedbatand in the case of the flu, you have some degree of immunity, a big % of people get flu shots.01:45
LjLyeah i don't have certainties on this, just gut feeling. perhaps amplified by authorities insisting otherwise.01:45
mefistofelesbut that's the hypothesis, I don't think it needs to be airborne to get that infectious.... though now we know it is potentially airborne01:46
mefistofelesLjL: which authorities?01:46
friedbatwe see high transmission in hospitals and ships01:48
friedbatand maybe nyc subways01:48
mefistofelesnursery and homeless shelters01:48
friedbatyes, that as well01:48
friedbatso places where people spend a lot of time close together, indoors.01:48
LjL"According to the currently available evidence, transmission through smaller droplet nuclei (airborne transmission) that propagate through air at distances longer than 1 meter is limited to aerosol generating procedures during clinical care of COVID-19 patients."01:50
LjLhttps://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200326-sitrep-66-covid-19.pdf01:50
friedbatit's incredible that we have all these brilliant people working in top research universities, commercial pharmaceutical labs, etc. and we don't have a fucking single effective therapy yet.01:50
LjLno, "according to currently available evidence" we don't know that "transmission is limited" blah blah01:50
LjLwe don't know EITHER WAY01:50
friedbatthe whole planet is working on this01:50
LjLthe null hypothesis is not magically "it doesn't"01:50
BrainstormUpdates for US: +2010 cases (now 1035240), +141 deaths (now 59225) since 47 minutes ago — New York, US: +949 cases (now 301450), +111 deaths (now 23144) since 47 minutes ago — Nigeria: +195 cases (now 1532) since 23 hours ago01:51
friedbatand we've known about S-spike protein coronaviruses for a long time. just shows how relatively primitive we are.01:51
LjLand this, as well as weasel language at the end of https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-transmission-of-virus-causing-covid-19-implications-for-ipc-precaution-recommendations including veiled criticism such as "At the same time, other countries and organizations, ..." is easy to read through01:51
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Amazon, Walmart, FedEx workers plan walkout on Friday: report (10570 votes) | https://redd.it/g9sv9o01:51
friedbati think at this point you should ignore anything from WHO01:51
friedbatthey failed miserably on this01:52
LjLfriedbat, i kind of do, but that doesn't mean their advice doesn't seem through to my country's authorities01:52
friedbatyeah, we all should, including country governments. the WHO is broken.01:52
mefistofelesLjL: the WHO is just stating the facts they know, not what they don't know01:52
mefistofelesthat's common in science reports01:52
mefistofelesstill the conclusions and recommendations is to treat the airborne transmission as possible01:53
mefistofeless/is/are01:53
LjLin my case http://www.salute.gov.it/portale/nuovocoronavirus/dettaglioFaqNuovoCoronavirus.jsp?id=228&lingua=italiano#3 doesn't make any mention of the possibility of the virus staying in the air. silence is evidence of absence in this case since if something is quite genuinely possible and not entirely unlikely, cautionary principle should apply.01:53
LjLmefistofeles, no, they are stating more01:53
LjLbut we've been there, done that01:53
LjLand disagreed01:53
LjLyour reading of their documents is disingenuous01:53
mefistofelesyes, you expect the WHO to behave like some government or media office in a press conference01:54
LjLthey say things like "We do not recommend" and you say it's not the same as "We recommend against"01:54
friedbatyeah, when the WHO says "no evidence of blah", the null hypothesis is biased to be "doesn't happen"01:54
LjLbut in context, it really kind of is01:54
mefistofelesit isn't that and it shouldn't be that, specially for the official reports01:54
friedbatand that's how many people interpret it01:54
friedbatif they said "no evidence it doesn't get transmitted as aerosol"01:54
LjLi expect the WHO not to lie, including by omission01:54
friedbatit would have a different effect01:54
mefistofelesthe WHO doesn't give advice, it shouldn't even be referenced as a source, since it just centralizes the information from other sources and not really theirs01:54
mefistofelesthat's their job01:55
friedbatno, they produce information too01:55
friedbatthey're not merely an aggregator like "apple news"01:55
mefistofelesfriedbat: well, yes, but not as an institution but from its members as researches, isn't it?01:55
LjLthe WHO definitely gives advice, that is plain to see when they issue things called "recommendations"01:55
LjLor lack thereof01:55
mefistofeles*researchers01:56
friedbatthe WHO takes official positions01:56
mefistofeleswhich are commonly affiliated to other institutions 01:56
friedbatthey produce reports, they produce studies, they produce test kits, etc.01:56
LjLalso, as i said, local authorities (here, and i expect elsewhere) often parrots their "recommendations"01:56
LjLmaking it into advice, or again, lack thereof01:56
LjLthis has made me upset from the start01:56
LjLmy mind is unlikely to be changed at this point01:56
friedbatitaly's initial response was probably not as good as it could've been because of bad WHO recommendations01:57
mefistofelesfriedbat: I have yet to see the first cientific paper on covid-19 that claims WHO as affiliation01:57
mefistofelesnot saying there aren't, but if they are then they are pretty rare01:57
friedbatwhen the US shut down travel from China the WHO came out against the measure01:58
friedbatnow almost all countries have restricted travel01:58
mefistofelesalso I haven't see any news on test kits being produced by the WHO, rather than being delivered by them, which is a pretty different thing02:00
mefistofelesit behaves more like the UN, countries can not give a damn about what they say, yet the UN can still pronnounce 02:01
friedbatyes, when we say WHO test we don't mean the WHO has a test-making laboratory.02:03
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 23:53 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Brazil deaths exceed known China toll as US infections pass 1 million → https://is.gd/HNcRAN02:03
friedbatin the case of COVID, the "WHO test" was distributed by WHO and produced by Charite (in Berline)02:03
friedbatBerlin*02:03
friedbatand i think you're not recognizing the weight WHO has. yes, countries can ignore them (some did)02:04
mefistofelesyes, thought so02:04
friedbatbut many countries like Italy took their cues from WHO02:04
friedbatyou have this scary new virus, and you have the world organization responsible for coordinate response to pandemics giving all kinds of bad recommendations. and people followed them.02:05
mefistofelesI think the WHO has also recommended many things that were ignored in the past and now are being taken into account, also... apart from the bad advice, as well02:05
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 00:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 1 million, lawmakers urge airlines to make face masks mandatory → https://is.gd/OtEp4A02:10
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 00:11 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Brazil deaths exceed known China toll as US infections pass 1 million → https://is.gd/HNcRAN02:31
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 00:32 UTC: (news): Dr. Anthony Fauci warns US could 'be in for a bad fall' if coronavirus treatments don't work → https://is.gd/wz38OH02:38
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 00:40 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 1 million, lawmakers urge airlines to make face masks mandatory → https://is.gd/OtEp4A02:45
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 00:52 UTC: (news): US coronavirus cases top 1 million, lawmakers urge airlines to make face masks mandatory → https://is.gd/OtEp4A02:59
metreoSo looks like the pandemic is over?03:02
LjLmost definitely not?03:02
metreoWhat factors will perpetuate it?03:02
dunnpwhat makes it look like it is over metreo?03:03
LjLi did not say it will be perpetual either03:03
metreoWe've had the lowest new cases/day in over a month globally.03:03
LjLa pandemic is not "over" when the number of new cases dips03:04
LjLand even if it were, there are still rather strict lockdown measures active all over the world03:04
metreoSo when will it end? Not trying to troll just looking for your education opinions in light of recent developments.03:04
LjLprobably not until there is a vaccine03:05
metreoWe've proven that UV and heat kill the virus so just a matter of waiting until summer?03:05
metreoAh the vaccine could take a year or more. 03:05
mefistofelesalso at this point it should be already known that new cases are correlated to testing, if the pandemic is moving towards regions where testing is less, then it would be reporting less numbers. And we now know that Latin America and Africa are starting to get hit.03:05
dunnpmore cases in US today than yesterday03:05
mefistofelesand yeah, far from over for the USA03:05
metreoWhat is the status of the testing efforts? Still sporadic and not population level.03:06
dunnpand summer isnt going to kill it03:06
metreoOK03:06
dunnpits not hot enough03:06
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 00:56 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Brazil deaths exceed known China toll as US infections pass 1 million → https://is.gd/HNcRAN03:06
metreoUV light however ...03:06
LjLmetreo, we have proven that lethal levels of UV and lethal levels of heat kill the virus03:06
dunnpmetreo: there is UV light in the winter too03:07
metreoAh lethal to humans as well.03:07
LjLbut since they kill us too, it's hard to make the inference that somehow summer will kill the virus but not us03:07
metreoOK03:07
metreoAnd the pathology of Covid-19, is the mortality figure of 7% optimistic or an overestimate?03:08
mefistofelesmetreo: most likely over estimated03:08
mefistofelesdata from countries with better testing have shown that it is much lower, even lower than 1%03:08
dunnp1% maybe03:08
metreoOK thanks03:09
metreoReally appreciate this channel03:09
mefistofelesmetreo: sure, no problem03:09
LjLmetreo, i think a somewhat defining thing of this disease is that, aside from death, it has a high rate of *hospitalization*. but that in turn affects mortality: if you can hospitalize everyone who needs it, then mortality will be much lower03:10
friedbatthat's an important point missed in quick analysis03:11
metreoI read reports that 90% of those on respirators died03:11
friedbatthe moratality rate is endogenous to the hospital system. if your hospitals get overwhelemed your fatality rate rises (not enough icus or doctors)03:12
LjLmetreo, i've heard virtually every figure, first time i hear 90%03:12
LjLanyway, "those on respirators" isn't the same as hospitalized03:12
metreoAs reported by Bloomberg03:12
LjLwell, as reported by not-bloomberg, i'll tell you it can be "as low" as 50%03:12
friedbatgetting put on a ventilator means you have a very extreme case of covid so your % death rate will be high03:13
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 01:11 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China reports 22 new cases; Mexico infections surge by 1,223 → https://is.gd/fLGm2803:13
mefistofelesfor NYC it's around 80% iirc, and for germany it was around 70%... for italy it was probably larger because they were accidentally making a mistake by putting people in ventilators that didn't really needed them03:13
mefistofelesand it turns out that positive high pressure (such as that from ventilators) worsens some of the conditions, inflammation being one of those03:14
metreo^^^ is the information I accessed as well03:15
friedbatactually they have different types of vents03:15
LjLbut you said 90%?03:15
friedbatolder designs have less positive pressure 03:15
metreoUp to 90% so with rounding03:15
friedbatand they seemed to do less alveolar damage03:15
mefistofelesfriedbat: yeah, the iron lungs03:15
mefistofelesbut they also have problems with accessibility to the patient in case of emergency03:16
mefistofelesof even higher emergency, that is03:16
friedbati think i would refuse a ventilator03:16
LjLthat's not what "rounding" is03:16
friedbatmefistofeles: yes. and even in the modern mechanical vents, different designs have different amounts of pressure03:17
metreoOk the article actually said nearly 90% and I said 90% the research article said 87%03:17
friedbatand some have the ability to graduate that pressure03:17
mefistofelesfriedbat: they need that for ICUs ventilators, as a requirement, or that's what I understand03:18
ragerthey all have the ability to adjust positive pressure03:19
rageras well as tidal volume03:19
mefistofelesLjL: I think they had that data for weeks, and were just waiting it to explode somewhere else :P03:19
metreoBuffering their numbers03:19
ragerwithout that, every patient with severe enough disease to warrant intubation dies03:19
LjLbut then they gave up, apparently03:19
LjLwe took too long03:19
ragerwhen you put four patients on a vent, you lose a lot of the ability to tune for patient prognosis03:21
ragernurses adjust the params on the vents periodically03:21
metreoChina's CFR is still only 5.5% 03:21
mefistofelesrager: also I heard that's commonly pretty bad, since they get infected with other kinds of things from the other patients03:21
ragerso places that have to multi-vent are probably seeing higher fatalities from that, too03:21
friedbatmetreo: china's numbers don't mean anything03:21
friedbatrager: aha, that's an interesting point i hadn't considered!03:22
metreoIf they are misrepresenting their numbers questions will be asked03:22
friedbatusually tidal volume is weight-based and then you have other things to consider03:22
metreoStatistics can provide solid evidence03:22
friedbatand with the demands on icu's it's not reasonable to think they put similar weight people on the shared vent etc03:23
ragerthere are a lot of thresholds of "oh fuck" that we're seeing in the numbers03:23
friedbati rather get one of those cheepo DIY vents than a fancy multi-vent03:23
ragerlike... when you run out of vents and multi-vent more people, that's a threshold03:23
ragerand when you really run out of vents and start refusing to vent patients with worse prognoses, that is another threshold03:24
mefistofelesfriedbat: that would just probably make you suffer more without ahving actual better chances to make it, imho03:24
ragerthere are a bunch of things that probably don't happen in Germany that we're seeing in the worst-hit regions03:24
mefistofelesrager: oh, that's a sure thing03:25
mefistofelesin Italy they had patients sitting there just waiting to die, not even in NYC that happened, I think03:25
friedbatrager: is that your hypothesis for the lower mortality rate?03:25
rageryeah03:26
ragernow, here's the one that gets out on thinner branches:03:26
friedbatny authorities said nobody who needed a vent was denied one but their death numbers are worse than germany03:26
ragerthis is caused by austerity and similar slim-down-the-system measures imposed in countries that either have poor worker protections or economies that have experienced shocks recently03:26
mefistofelesfriedbat: there are factors ont hat, one key is testing, so CFR is related to cases and that's directly related to testing. The other is the age group being hit, Germany started with 0.1% of death rate because the age group being hit first was rather young, specially compared to that of Italy03:28
mefistofelesand also how countries are counting deaths, some count deahts outside hospitals and even just based on symptoms without testing, some do not03:28
friedbati'm not talking about cfr, but deaths per capita (to avoid testing issues)03:28
mefistofelesfriedbat: that doesn't avoid the testing issue, that doesn't say much03:29
mefistofelesit's not as if countries that have more population should automatically show more deaths03:29
friedbati'm assuming, rightly or wrongly, a similar seroprevalence03:29
mefistofelesyeah, that's why testing info is needed :P03:29
friedbatbetween germany, france, switzerland, etc03:29
metreoI think we are getting to large enough numbers that worrying about a few bad data points is being averaged out03:29
mefistofelesand that shows seroprevalence varies quite a lot03:30
mefistofelesfor example Iceland or New Zealand or Norway03:30
mefistofelesor Korea03:30
metreoVietnam, Thailand03:30
mefistofelesor Thailand03:30
mefistofelesyeah03:30
mefistofelesit's all over the place, tbh03:30
metreoPraying for India right now03:31
mefistofelesBrazil is going for #1, USA doesn't want to let them take the lead03:31
mefistofelesxD03:31
metreoPraying for Brazil03:32
mefistofelesBrazil and Mexico are really undertested, though they had some distancing measures sooner than USA in terms of the community spreading numbers03:33
Toadisattvathat's odd my local cononavirus page is down and how been for some time03:34
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 01:20 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Brazil deaths exceed known China toll as US infections pass 1 million → https://is.gd/HNcRAN03:34
Toadisattvawonder if it's hax0rs03:35
mefistofelesToadisattva: logs?03:35
Toadisattvamaybe I didn't communicate that well, not on my local machine, the official page with the case counts for my local area I mean03:36
LjL<friedbat> ny authorities said nobody who needed a vent was denied one but their death numbers are worse than germany ← Borrelli in his press conferences also repeatedly said it, i have plenty of written evidence03:40
LjLhow true do you deem that to be in italy?03:41
friedbatin the case of NY though, they had empty ICU beds (Javitz Center, USNS Comfort, and others)03:42
friedbatso there's documentation of idle resources03:42
friedbathow true is it? who knows, politicians lie for living. so i don't know.03:43
LjLif only idle resources amounted to plenty, Italy would have the resources for 2 ICU beds per capita03:43
LjLjust in case one is under maintenance when i need it03:44
friedbatok, i guess i withdraw my ny comment03:47
friedbati probably don't believe much about what the ny governor has claimed03:48
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 01:54 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China reports 22 new cases; Mexico infections surge by 1,223 → https://is.gd/fLGm2804:02
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 02:11 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Brazil deaths exceed known China toll as US infections pass 1 million → https://is.gd/HNcRAN04:23
tinwhiskersDerek Lowe's latest pipeline is about monoclonal antibodies and as usual a really informative read: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/27/monoclonal-antibodies-for-the-coronavirus (Monoclonal Antibodies for the Coronavirus  |  In the Pipeline)04:38
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 02:40 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China reports 22 new cases; Mexico infections surge by 1,223 → https://is.gd/fLGm2804:45
LjL%title https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/lesterfeder/uganda-jails-lgbtq-people-coronavirus04:49
BrainstormLjL: From www.buzzfeednews.com: Coronavirus: Uganda Uses Social Distancing Rules To Raid LGBTQ Shelter And Jail Residents04:49
LjL... and deny them access to an attorney, and beat them up for a TV station to show04:50
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 02:45 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Nearly 70 dead at Massachusetts veterans' home as US cases pass 1 million → https://is.gd/HNcRAN04:52
BrainstormUpdates for Moscow City, Russia: +14486 cases (now 48426), +191 deaths (now 479) since 5 days ago — Sao Paulo, Brazil: +7301 cases (now 24041), +704 deaths (now 2049) since 5 days ago — Lima, Peru: +5748 cases (now 20048), +91 deaths (now 358) since 5 days ago05:22
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 03:26 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Australia to start widespread testing, China set to hold delayed annual meeting → https://is.gd/fLGm2805:34
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 03:48 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Nearly 70 dead at Massachusetts veterans' home as US cases pass 1 million → https://is.gd/HNcRAN05:55
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 04:05 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: attorney general labels Chinese ambassador's response 'largely emotional' – latest news → https://is.gd/3vrhIg06:16
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 04:25 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Australia to start widespread testing, China set to hold delayed annual meeting: Australia is set to begin widespread testing after securing 10 million Covid-19 test kits, and will expand testing this week to those who are not showing symptoms. → https://is.gd/fLGm2806:30
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 04:47 UTC: Australia coronavirus live update: attorney general labels Chinese ambassador's response 'largely emotional' – latest news: Christian Porter comments on Cheng Jingye’s reaction to coronavirus inquiry call, while federal government offers to bring forward private school funding if face-to-face teaching resumes by [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/3vrhIg06:58
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Guidelines call for 14-day drop in cases to reopen. No state has met them. (10380 votes) | https://redd.it/g9zkq807:05
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 05:06 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/YTF3CX07:19
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 05:20 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Australia to start widespread testing, China set to hold delayed annual meeting: Australia is set to begin widespread testing after securing 10 million Covid-19 test kits, and will expand testing this week to those who are not showing symptoms. → https://is.gd/fLGm2807:26
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 05:27 UTC: AI can't solve this: The coronavirus could be highlighting just how overhyped the industry is: Artificial intelligence has been hailed as a monumental technology that will change the world, but coronavirus is showing that it is still in its infancy. → https://is.gd/XfYkeo07:40
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 05:40 UTC: Australia coronavirus live update: attorney general labels Chinese ambassador's response 'largely emotional' – latest news: Christian Porter comments on Cheng Jingye’s reaction to coronavirus inquiry call, while federal government offers to bring forward private school funding if face-to-face teaching resumes by [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/3vrhIg07:47
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 05:51 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Australia to start widespread testing, China set to hold delayed annual meeting: Australia is set to begin widespread testing after securing 10 million Covid-19 test kits, and will expand testing this week to those who are not showing symptoms. → https://is.gd/fLGm2807:54
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 06:07 UTC: nCoV: Global COVID Cases For 29APR20 → https://is.gd/SQjYUe08:09
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 06:10 UTC: Australia coronavirus live update: attorney general labels Chinese ambassador's response 'largely emotional' – latest news: Christian Porter comments on Cheng Jingye’s reaction to coronavirus inquiry call, while federal government offers to bring forward private school funding if face-to-face teaching resumes by [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/3vrhIg08:16
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 06:24 UTC: Australia coronavirus live update: twelfth death at Sydney's Newmarch House – latest news: Christian Porter comments on Cheng Jingye’s reaction to coronavirus inquiry call, while federal government offers to bring forward private school funding if face-to-face teaching resumes by June. Follow all the latest news, live → https://is.gd/3vrhIg08:37
pynasoothing bot checkins08:48
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 06:49 UTC: nCoV: Female hormones could be a saving grace for males from COVID-19 → https://is.gd/yATzLZ08:51
friedbatcures covid-19, side effects include: breast development, higher pitched voice, and less facial hair09:02
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 06:57 UTC: Business: Markets at seven-week high despite rising cost of Covid-19 crisis - business live → https://is.gd/lEPrgV09:05
BrainstormUpdates for Gelderland, Netherlands: +4000 cases (now 4926) since 8 days ago — Limburg, Netherlands: +3047 cases (now 3990) since 8 days ago — Overijssel, Netherlands: +2197 cases (now 2640) since 8 days ago09:08
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 07:05 UTC: Quarantena dopo due mesi: Scrivo questo post per sapere come sta andando la quarantena dopo quasi due mesi. → https://is.gd/O9rgVz09:12
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 07:16 UTC: Australia coronavirus live update: 12th death at Sydney's Newmarch House – latest news: Christian Porter comments on Cheng Jingye’s reaction to coronavirus inquiry call, while federal government offers to bring forward private school funding if face-to-face teaching resumes by June. Follow all the latest news, live → https://is.gd/3vrhIg09:19
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 07:30 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Australia to start widespread testing, China set to hold delayed annual meeting: Australia is set to begin widespread testing after securing 10 million Covid-19 test kits, and will expand testing this week to those who are not showing symptoms. → https://is.gd/fLGm2809:33
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 07:33 UTC: nCoV: Centenarian, 1918 flu survivor escapes coronavirus, earning reputation as having ‘Superhuman DNA’ → https://is.gd/RYMV5k09:40
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 07:40 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Buongiorno a tutti, mentre Eravate Via → https://is.gd/OcKBt909:47
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 07:49 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia - Milano → https://is.gd/kk8BCf09:54
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 07:58 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: India → https://is.gd/lehxPe10:01
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 08:04 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Australia to start widespread testing, China set to hold delayed annual meeting: Australia is set to begin widespread testing after securing 10 million Covid-19 test kits, and will expand testing this week to those who are not showing symptoms. → https://is.gd/fLGm2810:08
BrainstormUpdates for Russia: +5841 cases (now 99399), +105 deaths (now 972) since a day ago — Singapore: +690 cases (now 15641) since a day ago — Armenia: +65 cases (now 1932) since a day ago10:09
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 08:14 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Sport → https://is.gd/Mz2jno10:15
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 08:19 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna → https://is.gd/bdqepC10:22
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 08:29 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Asia → https://is.gd/OAGj8710:29
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 08:30 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Priti Patel faces questions over Home Office response to Covid-19 crisis → https://is.gd/zUf3Ql10:37
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 08:41 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA → https://is.gd/Ti9Iqn10:44
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 08:55 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Australia to start widespread testing, China set to hold delayed annual meeting: Australia is set to begin widespread testing after securing 10 million Covid-19 test kits, and will expand testing this week to those who are not showing symptoms. → https://is.gd/fLGm2810:58
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 09:05 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Mondo → https://is.gd/K4aE2011:05
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 09:10 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Tecnologia → https://is.gd/iXu6Ww11:12
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 09:19 UTC: Come riconoscere una mascherina chirurgica: Vivo in Sicilia, qui fino a un paio di settimane fa non si trovavano mascherine di qualsiasi tipo neanche a pagarle oro. Ora si cominciano a trovare sia in farmacia che al supermercato diversi tipi di mascherine, alcune esteticamente uguali a quelle chirurgiche ma che [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Ui0Xpe11:27
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 09:33 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA - Scienza → https://is.gd/WhWCBK11:34
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 09:36 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/2K9Ikq11:41
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 09:44 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Australia to start widespread testing, China set to hold delayed annual meeting: Australia is set to begin widespread testing after securing 10 million Covid-19 test kits, and will expand testing this week to those who are not showing symptoms. → https://is.gd/fLGm2811:48
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 09:50 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Boris Johnson and fiancee announce birth of baby; Raab to take PMQs → https://is.gd/zUf3Ql11:55
mefistofeles%t https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.05.20054502v2 very interesting one 12:00
Brainstormmefistofeles: From www.medrxiv.org: Exposure to air pollution and COVID-19 mortality in the United States: A nationwide cross-sectional study | medRxiv12:00
mefistofelesthough, not really sure how they separate that from the fact that just big cities are being hit hard, for obvious reasons (population, density, more contacts, etc.)12:02
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 09:55 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Zimbabwe → https://is.gd/0VYjDD12:02
mefistofelesand considering that big cities are commonly the ones with the worse air quality in terms of PM2.512:02
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 10:07 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito → https://is.gd/H2F8Rv12:09
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 10:12 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia nears grim milestone of 100,000 cases; Spain sees daily death rate rise again → https://is.gd/fLGm2812:17
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 10:21 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Mascherine a 0,50€, Lo Stato Taglia Fuori Dal Mercato Molte Imprese Che Hanno Riconvertito La Produzione → https://is.gd/b3r4xR12:24
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 10:25 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA - Scienza → https://www.reddit.com/live/14j9ahk259h93/updates/cf45d460-8a03-11ea-be1c-0e32440fd5bd12:31
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 10:29 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia nears grim milestone of 100,000 cases; Spain sees daily death rate rise again → https://is.gd/fLGm2812:38
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 10:39 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Lussemburgo → https://is.gd/8dEl5T12:45
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 10:47 UTC: A.I. can't solve this: The coronavirus could be highlighting just how overhyped the industry is: Artificial intelligence has been hailed as a monumental technology that will change the world, but coronavirus is showing that it is still in its infancy. → https://is.gd/XfYkeo12:52
term99%data ohio12:55
Brainstormterm99: In Ohio, US, there are 16769 total cases (0.1% of the population) and 799 deaths (4.8% of cases) as of 8 minutes ago. 122706 tests were performed (13.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Ohio for time series data.12:55
Urchin%data croatia12:57
BrainstormUrchin: In all areas, Croatia, there are 2047 total cases (0.1% of the population) and 63 deaths (3.1% of cases) as of 10 minutes ago. 33577 tests were performed (6.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 4.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data.12:57
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 10:57 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Il livethread fa pausa per pranzo → https://is.gd/KaVYor12:59
bluedog%cases World13:02
Brainstormbluedog: In all areas, worldwide, there are 3.2 million total cases (0.0% of the population) and 218614 deaths (6.9% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 30.5 million tests were performed (10.4% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 2.3% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 18.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data.13:02
AimHereWhat makes Brainstorm here think that only 2/3 cases are undetected?13:06
mefistofelesAimHere: it was a rough initial estimate, not really well founded now13:13
mefistofelesafaics13:13
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 11:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia nears grim milestone of 100,000 cases; Spain sees daily death rate rise again → https://is.gd/fLGm2813:20
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 11:24 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Russia → https://is.gd/Srr1Qn13:27
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 11:32 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Società → https://is.gd/XoVAgK13:34
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 11:40 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Raab faces Starmer at PMQs, as Boris Johnson and fiancee announce birth of baby → https://is.gd/zUf3Ql13:48
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 12:00 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/NdYgD014:02
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 12:02 UTC: Russia nears grim milestone of 100,000 cases; Spain sees daily death rate rise again: Russia's crisis response center reported 99,939 cases of the coronavirus on Wednesday and Spain has seen its daily number of deaths rise again. → https://is.gd/fLGm2814:09
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 12:12 UTC: (news): LabCorp swings to a loss, withdraws 2020 guidance as coronavirus outbreak drives up costs → https://is.gd/ZZwzYh14:16
hirogen+Feed[bot]> [MX] Virus syndrome also found in French children, minister says → https://j.mp/2zJwwCh14:20
hirogen<+Feed[bot]> [MX] As lockdowns ease, health officials urge virus vigilance → https://j.mp/2W85Q5v14:20
hirogen<+Feed[bot]> [MX] US govt reveals details of sunlight study on virus → https://j.mp/2YhpG0M14:20
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 12:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: GE warns of Q2 financial hit, Russia approaches 100,000 cases → https://is.gd/QUCQOe14:23
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 12:35 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia - App Immuni → https://is.gd/9ieQYn14:37
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 12:42 UTC: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Wednesday: Dow futures soar on positive data about a possible Gilead Sciences coronavirus treatment. → https://is.gd/S2RvmC14:44
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 12:47 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: GE warns of Q2 financial hit, Russia approaches 100,000 cases → https://is.gd/QUCQOe14:52
BrainstormUpdates for Spain: +4771 cases (now 236899), +453 deaths (now 24275) since a day ago — Moscow City, Russia: +2220 cases (now 50646), +67 deaths (now 546) since 9 hours ago — Saudi Arabia: +1325 cases (now 21402) since 22 hours ago15:05
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: No COVID-19 bailouts for firms that use tax havens, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says (10176 votes) | https://redd.it/ga12kg15:12
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 13:10 UTC: (news): Gilead says early results of coronavirus drug trial show improvement with shorter remdesivir treatment → https://is.gd/9vVNuk15:13
peterx[m]%cases india15:20
Brainstormpeterx[m]: In all areas, India, there are 31332 total cases (0.0% of the population) and 1008 deaths (3.2% of cases) as of 2 minutes ago. 770764 tests were performed (4.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 11.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data.15:20
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 13:33 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Giappone → https://is.gd/IAhr1A15:34
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 13:39 UTC: Gilead says early results of coronavirus drug trial show improvement with shorter remdesivir treatment: Gilead Sciences said Wednesday preliminary results of a coronavirus drug trial showed at least 50% of patients treated with a 5-day dosage of antiviral drug remdesivir improved. → https://is.gd/9vVNuk15:41
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 13:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Gilead sees 'positive data' for remdesivir, US GDP shrank 4.8% in the first quarter → https://is.gd/QUCQOe15:48
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 14:00 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Sud Africa → https://is.gd/8pyB2Z16:02
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:04 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: LabCorp posts loss as pandemic boosts costs; US GDP shrank 4.8% in the first quarter → https://is.gd/QUCQOe16:10
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 14:17 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Europa - Trasporto → https://is.gd/RkYSWr16:24
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:23 UTC: Coronavirus testing chief says 'no way on Earth' US can test 5 million a day, despite what Trump says: A Harvard University study published last week said the U.S. would need to ramp up testing capacity to at least 5 million tests a day by early June to reopen the economy. → https://is.gd/WTgmVi16:31
mefistofeleswoah, 5 million a day seems very unlikely, unless they use some kind of really fast and inaccurate test, but even then16:33
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 14:36 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/HfWfkh16:38
iz%cases us16:39
Brainstormiz: In all areas, US, there are 1.0 million total cases (0.3% of the population) and 59329 deaths (5.7% of cases) as of 10 minutes ago. 5.9 million tests were performed (17.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.16:39
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:40 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: LabCorp posts loss as pandemic boosts costs; US GDP shrank 4.8% in the first quarter → https://is.gd/QUCQOe16:45
LjLhttps://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN2020042900705132016:51
LjL> The committee further said it is virtually impossible for the virus to be reactivated unless the COVID-19 virus causes chronic infections.16:51
LjLBit of a truism this16:51
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 14:49 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/LskAjM16:52
LjL> "The COVID-19 virus does not invade inside of the cell nucleus and combine with a patient's DNA," Oh said. "It means that the virus does not create chronic infections." Oh further said the COVID-19 virus is different from diseases such as HIV and hepatitis B in which the virus stays dormant inside of a cell nucleus and later causes chronic infection.16:52
LjLBit of a falsehood this16:52
LjLHSV does not invade nuclei and does not combine with cell DNA16:52
LjLBut it's chronic anyway for other reasons16:53
LjLTo be fair the article also does hint that they've tested the fragments and found them not viable... Not very clearly but it does suggest that16:53
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 14:49 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Starmer says country risks 'falling behind' if government does not publish exit plan → https://is.gd/zUf3Ql16:59
mefistofelesLjL: I'd assume they say that with enough evidence in their hands, specially the part of the virus not entering the nucleus, which is the case unless there's really some unknown huge deal of biology going on ... which is not likely17:01
LjLof course it doesn't enter the nucleus17:01
LjLwhat i'm saying is that it is false to assert that *because* it doesn't enter the nuclus, "it means that the virus does not create chronic infections"17:01
LjLHSV also does not enter the nucleus, yet creates chronic infections17:02
LjLbeing a retrovirus is not the only way that can happen17:02
LjLso that's simply a stated inaccuracy17:02
mefistofelesLjL: yes, that's why HSV is not a good example here, because sars-cov-2 isn't a retrovirus17:05
LjL... neither is HSV17:05
mefistofelesah, ok, I understand what you said, it was a bit confusing but got it17:06
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 15:00 UTC: Coronavirus testing chief says 'no way on Earth' US can test 5 million a day, despite what Trump says: A Harvard University study published last week said the U.S. would need to ramp up testing capacity to at least 5 million tests a day by early June to reopen the economy. → https://is.gd/WTgmVi17:06
mefistofeles"being a retrovirus" I thought you were referring there to HSV17:06
BrainstormUpdates for US: +2506 cases (now 1038271), +172 deaths (now 59438) since 11 hours ago — Maryland, US: +736 cases (now 20849), +62 deaths (now 1078) since a day ago — Virginia, US: +622 cases (now 14961) since a day ago17:06
LjLsometimes things are confusing on more than one end17:07
mefistofelesLjL: but HSV is a dsDNA virus, so that also makes it pretty different17:08
mefistofelesthe transcribing machinery is in the nucleus17:09
LjLwell, that's irrelevant since it's not covered in the article17:09
LjLthe article makes an implication17:09
LjL"does not enter the nucleus (aka being a retrovirus) → does not become chronic"17:09
LjLthis is just false, and that is what i was pointing out17:09
LjLanything else may be true but also not relevant17:09
mefistofelessure17:10
mefistofelesit should've been worded differently17:10
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 15:10 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYC begins antibody testing for frontliners; US pending home sales tank → https://is.gd/QUCQOe17:13
mefistofelesLjL: I think not only retrovirus can enter the nucleus, btw. Also I've seen already different wordings for what Oh said, here is a better one http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200429000724 17:18
mefistofelesall of them quoting him, but with different sentences xD17:18
mefistofelesI don't see why “The process in which COVID-19 produces a new virus takes place only in host cells and does not infiltrate the nucleus. This means it does not cause chronic infection or recurrence,” is a wrong implication, tbh17:18
DocScrutinizer05my own covid statistics germany based on RKI official data:  https://i.imgur.com/FRK2kDn.png17:20
AlbrightChange.org petition for the dropkicking of Tedros has reached over 1 million signatures: https://www.change.org/p/united-nations-call-for-the-resignation-of-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-who-director-general17:21
AlbrightOf course internet petitions are always very relevant and invariably bring about the desired change17:21
mefistofelesAlbright: that petition is a bit crazy, mixing many things together17:23
mefistofelesspecially that last paragraph17:23
mefistofelesDocScrutinizer05: have you check the correlation with the official data for the R value?17:27
mefistofelesnot even sure if one can get actual data on that, tbh17:28
DocScrutinizer05me neither17:28
DocScrutinizer05so the answer is 'no' :-)17:28
mefistofelesok17:29
DocScrutinizer05but my stats show a 0.7 for today, where my "today" is prolly RKI's "2 weeks ago"17:29
mefistofelesDocScrutinizer05: it seems off comparing it by eye with the official figure they presented last week17:29
DocScrutinizer05yes17:29
mefistofelesDocScrutinizer05: ok17:30
DocScrutinizer05first of all my curve of newcases is based on date_of_reporting (JHU-style method) while RKI prolly uses date_of_infection guesstimate17:31
DocScrutinizer05then RKI applies nowcasting for guesstimating the true numbers of infections of last dozen days17:33
DocScrutinizer05I can tell one thing: "my" R_eff seems to better predict the case numbers of tomorrow than what RKI publishes for their R_eff17:34
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 15:33 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA → https://is.gd/21FpwA17:34
mefistofelesDocScrutinizer05: how are you predicting?17:35
mefistofelesactive cases * R_eff ?17:35
DocScrutinizer05I'm looking at "newcases(today) and multiply by my R_eff17:36
mefistofelesah yes, that may be better17:36
mefistofelesDocScrutinizer05: but without error bars that can be all over the place :P17:37
mefistofelesthat means, it may be exact but not precise17:38
mefistofelesso it depends on what you are aiming for17:38
mefistofelesit's known there's a strong correlation between current new cases and future cases, and if you use that you should get good results in average, but maybe not for confidence intervals17:39
mefistofelesanyways, have to go now, we may continue this later17:40
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 15:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYC begins antibody testing for frontliners; US pending home sales tank → https://is.gd/QUCQOe17:41
DocScrutinizer05as usual find the whole bunch at Xhttp://maemo.cloud-7.de/et_al/covid/covid19work/, use "edit - links to external files..." in LO calc to adjust location of your csv, run ./run_statistics.sh in linux shell17:47
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 15:47 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Aggiornamento numero di contagi in Italia 29 Aprile → https://is.gd/NruBn417:48
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 15:53 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus, il bollettino della Protezione civile (29 aprile) - Open → https://is.gd/UPiAIP17:55
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 16:00 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NYC begins antibody testing for frontliners; US pending home sales tank → https://is.gd/QUCQOe18:02
oxalis\o/ !  Cheap real estate!18:03
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 16:15 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Milano → https://is.gd/jRgJyo18:17
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +2086 cases (now 203591), +323 deaths (now 27682) since a day ago — US: +1962 cases (now 1040233), +381 deaths (now 59819) since an hour ago — Chile: +520 cases (now 14885) since a day ago18:22
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 16:22 UTC: Aggiornamento 29/04: submitted by /u/maikk_ to r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA → https://is.gd/q59ED518:24
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 16:25 UTC: (news): Gilead says early results of coronavirus drug trial show improvement with shorter remdesivir treatment → https://is.gd/9vVNuk18:31
ubLXI^ anyone looked into Gilead's new statements yet?18:32
ubLXIkinda looks like nonsense to me18:32
BrainstormUpdates for Turkey: +2936 cases (now 117589), +89 deaths (now 3081) since a day ago18:37
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 16:34 UTC: (news): Dr. Anthony Fauci says data from remdesivir coronavirus drug trial shows 'quite good news' → https://is.gd/p2AX8Q18:38
BrainstormUpdates for US: +5484 cases (now 1045717), +264 deaths (now 60083) since 38 minutes ago — New York, US: +3636 cases (now 305086) since 38 minutes ago — Texas, US: +692 cases (now 26863) since a day ago18:52
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 16:47 UTC: Coronavirus testing chief says 'no way on Earth' US can test 5 million a day, despite what Trump says: A Harvard University study published last week said the U.S. would need to ramp up testing capacity to at least 5 million tests a day by early June to reopen the economy. → https://is.gd/WTgmVi18:52
TramtristI just watched fauci talk about remdesevir .. do we have some hope now?18:54
phantomcircuitTramtrist, it might help but it's probably not a miracle cure; if it was they would have stopped the human trials and would be giving it to everybody on compassionate use grounds18:56
TramtristThey did announce something about emergency use being officially allowed from now 18:57
Tramtristor soon from now18:57
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 16:55 UTC: Health: PM's baby can help ease coronavirus pregnancy fears, says top doctor → https://is.gd/3ffS6y18:59
ubLXITramtrist: what did you watch? gpt a link?19:06
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 17:03 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Società → https://is.gd/NEKPvQ19:06
Tramtristhttps://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/29/gilead-coronavirus-remdesivir-22048419:08
TramtristThis article specifically mentions emergency use19:08
Tramtristspecifically https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1255486045413662720?s=2019:09
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:11 UTC: /u/slakmehl: U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported, C.D.C. Data Suggests - The New York Times → https://is.gd/sVlPfU19:13
ubLXIfrustrating to hear Fauci describe a "very important proof of concept" without access to data to see for ourselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HujdC7s3tM19:16
Tramtristsounded like it was coming soon19:16
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 17:15 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna → https://is.gd/f7BtbV19:20
ubLXInice that he frames it that way, though, rather than Gilead's less restrained language19:21
Tramtristseems not insignificant19:21
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +4076 cases (now 165221), +4419 deaths (now 26097) since 22 hours ago — US: +709 cases (now 1046426) since 34 minutes ago — Louisiana, US: +374 cases (now 27660) since a day ago19:22
LjLi don't follow... what's being released, what's not, what does it have to do with market concerns...19:25
LjLalso, what's up with the UK19:26
LjL+4419 deaths certainly doesn't look normal. is there a special release of nursing home deaths, or non-hospital deaths, or something?19:26
blkshpThey added the care home and community deaths today, yes19:26
LjLah19:27
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 17:23 UTC: Coronavirus testing chief says 'no way on Earth' US can test 5 million a day, despite what Trump says: A Harvard University study published last week said the U.S. would need to ramp up testing capacity to at least 5 million tests a day by early June to reopen the economy. → https://is.gd/WTgmVi19:27
Arsanerit5 million a day sounds ambitious19:29
ArsaneritGermany aims for 4.5 million a week19:29
LjLwhen China does things like this (the one done in the UK), many people go "ah! they were hiding numbers! we cannot possibly believe anything they say now"19:29
LjLwhen it's down in the west, it's more like "finally they included them"19:30
LjLdone*19:30
Arsaneritis it?19:30
Arsaneritsome people make the same hiding claims for western govts19:30
LjLwell i definitely see some inconsistency in reactions among some people19:30
LjLi'm sure there are people who somehow believe that things are not so different19:31
generawhat .. did they in UK?19:31
kreyrenCovid-19 has two types of ARDS? https://youtu.be/qoJ4VDaGSfY?t=6019:32
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 17:30 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Grecia → https://is.gd/OnR81119:34
LjLgenera, blkshp said what they did19:35
generaoh sri. i somehow thought he meant .it19:36
Mikaela%cases Mexico19:37
BrainstormMikaela: In all areas, Mexico, there are 16752 total cases (0.0% of the population) and 1569 deaths (9.4% of cases) as of 3 minutes ago. 77005 tests were performed (21.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 3.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 12.1% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Mexico for time series data.19:37
BrainstormUpdates for US: +2408 cases (now 1048834), +383 deaths (now 60495) since 22 minutes ago — New Jersey, US: +2408 cases (now 116264), +328 deaths (now 6770) since a day ago — Pakistan: +236 cases (now 15525) since 4 hours ago19:37
Tramtrist%cases kentucky19:39
BrainstormTramtrist: In Kentucky, US, there are 4375 total cases (0.1% of the population) and 225 deaths (5.1% of cases) as of 5 minutes ago. 52411 tests were performed (8.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Kentucky for time series data.19:39
LjLkreyren, first time i hear of the two types of ARDS (but it's not like i'd hear about it since i can't read a CT scan and appreciate the difference until i'm told), but there's definitely been a lot of talk about blood clotting and other blood vessel disorders related to COVID-1919:42
LjLwhich honestly i haven't followed enough, i've had a bit of "COVID fatigue" in the past few days19:42
kreyrenLjL, ty for info19:42
Tramtristyou're in the wrong channel LjL :D19:43
LjLTramtrist, or i've been in the right channel for a bit too long19:44
LjLeven though i kind of fixate on things, and this is something that's easy to fixate on, at some point if you only ever think about one thing, the brain will say "enough"19:44
Tramtristyes19:45
LjLso i've not even been lucking at the numbers much19:45
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:45 UTC: /u/slakmehl: UK turned down offer of 10,000 tests a day four weeks ago | World news | The Guardian → https://is.gd/T0HvQ919:48
Tramtristwhat the19:49
LjLhmm well, it looks like an unusual test19:50
LjLfor all i know there may have been decent reasons to shun it19:51
LjLit says "Early studies in the US, including one by Yale University, have found the saliva test to be as accurate - if not more so - than the nasal swab test and some scientists have hailed it as “game-changing”."19:51
LjLso, maybe not. but still, it's a saliva test while normally they make a point of going deep into the nose to be as sure to find viral RNA as possible19:51
LjL"The two-minute test is self-administered and can be used at home without supervision, removing the need for potential Covid-19 victims to drive to testing facilities."19:52
LjLthis seems good, but i find it hard to belive a rapid test you can do yourself at home can offer the same degree of confidence as a hospital-administered test19:52
LjL"When we compared SARS-CoV-2 detection from patient-matched nasopharyngeal and saliva samples, we found that saliva yielded greater detection sensitivity and consistency throughout the course of infection. Furthermore, we report less variability in self-sample collection of saliva. Taken together, our findings demonstrate that saliva is a viable and more sensitive alternative to nasopharyngeal swabs and could enable at-home self-administered sample 19:53
LjLcollection for accurate large-scale SARS-CoV-2 testing."19:53
LjLso if this study is right, they were idiots not to buy them19:53
generathey also talk about testing all of the U.S. populaton, sending a few million spit tests to a central station 19:53
LjLbut also, considering they only started listing deaths outside of hospitals today, i *could* think of nasty ulterior motives19:53
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 17:52 UTC: Coronavirus testing chief says 'no way on Earth' US can test 5 million a day, despite what Trump says: A Harvard University study published last week said the U.S. would need to ramp up testing capacity to at least 5 million tests a day by early June to reopen the economy. → https://is.gd/WTgmVi19:55
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Belgians urged to eat fries twice a week as coronavirus creates massive potato surplus (10000 votes) | https://redd.it/g9s79t19:55
LjLpfffft with this fries thing, don't know how many times i've seen it by now, who cares19:57
Butterfly^https://imgur.com/gallery/2ajAUzo  U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Far Higher Than Reported? Craaaaaap!19:59
LjLButterfly^, yes, we have articles with those graphs in the topic link20:01
LjLit's definitely higher than reported and not just in the US20:01
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 17:59 UTC: (news): Dr. Anthony Fauci says Gilead's remdesivir will set a new 'standard of care' for coronavirus treatment → https://is.gd/p2AX8Q20:02
Butterfly^LjL : sorry, i'm in about 50 channels, of which like 20 are discussing corona on a daily basis, it's hard to keep track what's been said where :)20:03
LjLwell it's okay, i don't think anyone but me checks those links20:05
nixonixcritic against santa clara antibody survey fiasco, and other antibody testing information: https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/how-not-to-do-an-antibody-survey-for-sars-cov-2-6748820:14
nixonix%title20:14
Brainstormnixonix: From www.the-scientist.com: How (Not) to Do an Antibody Survey for SARS-CoV-2 | The Scientist Magazine®20:14
mefistofelesnixonix: hah yeah, that stanford study really blew20:14
mefistofelesLjL: hah, not true20:15
mefistofelesbut yeah, I wish more people checked those20:15
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 18:09 UTC: Business: Fed leaves US interest rates at record lows as Covid-19 causes 'tremendous hardship' - business live → https://is.gd/lEPrgV20:16
Tramtristi hope you all ran out and got your pepcid ac20:16
mefistofelesTramtrist: what?20:17
generathe c-peptid ?20:17
Tramtristhttps://www.businessinsider.com/heartburn-medicine-pepcid-shortages-famotidine-studied-coronavirus-covid-treatment-2020-420:19
generaah20:19
LjLnixonix, what's your opinion of the NY one?20:23
mefistofelesTramtrist: best treatments are probably outlined here https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/27/monoclonal-antibodies-for-the-coronavirus20:24
tinwhiskersubLXI: I agree. The Gilead results look highly suspicious. That the 5 day treatment is giving better results than the 10 day treatment is a sure sign that the good news is statistical chance. They are just trying to pump their stock value.20:26
ubLXItinwhiskers: but in contrast to Gilead's, the NIAID remdesivir study results look set to be much more interesting20:30
LjLubLXI, is it out yet or do we only have the teaser statement20:30
ubLXIlooked an hour ago; only the teaser, as far as i could see20:30
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 18:28 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Medicina → https://is.gd/bjEAjf20:30
tinwhiskersAdd to that lack of control and that their other experiment only "met it's main goal" (nice way of saying showed nothing) and I don't think it's looking good for remdisivir.20:31
tinwhiskersubLXI: let's hope so20:31
LjLwait, i agree mostly, but how is "meeting your main goal" equivalent to showing nothing20:31
LjLthat's pretty much the definition of what a study considers success when it is designed20:32
tinwhiskersYou don't use those type of words to describe a successful experiment in my experience20:32
tinwhiskersThat sounds exactly like positive spin on an unsuccessful experiment to me but maybe I'm wrong20:33
ubLXIthat was my suspicion, tinwhiskers20:34
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 18:37 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Per essere chiari, Dr Fauci non è ottimista specificamente su Remdesivir, ma sulle possibilità che il farmaco mostra, che lui trova simile alla scoperta di antivirali contro HIV : Non erano completamente efficaci all'inizio, ma grazie a quel studio le terapie sono migliorati rapidamente negli [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/lRWRUJ20:37
LjL%more20:38
BrainstormLjL, don't keep calling this if there's nothing to show! Check the pastebin. 20:38
LjLBrainstorm, get stuffed20:38
ubLXIthat they were spinning, i mean, not that you were wrong, haha20:38
LjL%tr Per essere chiari, Dr Fauci non è ottimista specificamente su Remdesivir, ma sulle possibilità che il farmaco mostra, che lui trova simile alla scoperta di antivirali contro HIV : Non erano completamente efficaci all'inizio, ma grazie a quel studio le terapie sono migliorati rapidamente20:38
BrainstormLjL, Italian to English: To be clear, Dr Fauci is not optimistic specifically about Remdesivir, but about the possibilities that the drug shows, which he finds similar to the discovery of antivirals against HIV: They were not completely effective in the beginning, but thanks to that study the therapies improved rapidly (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?]20:38
LjL%tr Infatti secondo il report, il farmaco mostra una riduzione statisticamente irrilevante riguardo il numero di decessi, ma una riduzione significativa della durata dei sintomi nelle persone guarite20:39
BrainstormLjL, Italian to English: In fact, according to the report, the drug shows a statistically insignificant reduction in the number of deaths, but a significant reduction in the duration of symptoms in the people healed (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?]20:39
nixonixLjL: ny antibody testing? we dont know much about how its done, so we can make calculations based on their results (because not much else is available currently, from high prevalence areas like nyc), but they might be way off. i wonder why see all that trouble and not do it right. i guess they are politically motivated, either to show they are doing something, or to have support for something they are planning to do20:41
tinwhiskersMy guess is this experiment got statistically lucky based on the 5 day treatment faring better than the 10 day treatment. It's not exactly a spectacular result.20:42
ArsaneritWhy oh why did we make all our summer vacation bookings in January and February?20:45
ubLXItinwhiskers: there was also this quote from statnews, relating to Gilead's non-controlled study: "Eight percent of the patients treated with five days of remdesivir died, compared to 11% of the patients treated for 10 days."20:46
tinwhiskersHrm20:47
ubLXIexactly20:47
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 18:39 UTC: Business: Federal Reserve leaves US interest rates at record lows amid Covid-19 hardship - business live → https://is.gd/lEPrgV20:51
LjLnixonix, i thought something along those lines. Italy is testing 150000 people and i'm glad they've spent some times selecting good tests (they were aiming for 95% and 98%, i don't remember which one specificity and which one sensitivity) and a representative sample... but now they're getting a bit *too* much delayed, imo. if they did it within the original timeframe it could be one of the earliest such tests in the world... as in, executed properly20:52
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 18:53 UTC: (news): Prosecutors oppose Martin Shkreli's coronavirus early prison release bid, call him 'delusional,' greedy → https://is.gd/e9iCrV20:58
nixonixtheir goal is antibody treatment. but we would really need information on share of mild cases, nonsymptomatic, kids etc to adjust policies and control measures. now swedish epidemiologists think there is 50-100x more infected people than even decent testing amounts catch, and IFR 0.1-0.2% max, and some national health care officials seem to buy all this21:01
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Costco to require all shoppers to wear face masks (10070 votes) | https://redd.it/gaaddf21:01
mefistofelesnixonix: the Sweden case is interesting, they are probably trying to justify the measures that led to deads compared to neighbors with similar conditions, I guess21:03
mefistofeles*deaths21:03
mefistofelesnow, this doesn't mean these deaths were necessarily avoidable, that's yet to be seen21:03
LjLnixonix, i find that rather unlikely21:03
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 18:55 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Paris 'exiles' told to return when lockdown ends, as Sweden passes 20,000 confirmed cases → https://is.gd/HNcRAN21:06
BrainstormNew from Ars Technica at 19:05 UTC: Science: First treatment for SARS-CoV-2 shortens recovery time → https://is.gd/L71jvf21:13
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 19:17 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito → https://is.gd/XxmWCY21:20
Butterfly^https://i.imgur.com/HBnFRew.jpg21:25
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 19:32 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/mQeJ8V21:34
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 19:46 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA → https://is.gd/unb0Dh21:48
BrainstormUpdates for US: +3369 cases (now 1052203), +262 deaths (now 60757) since 2 hours ago — Illinois, US: +2253 cases (now 50355), +90 deaths (now 2215) since a day ago — Brazil: +1258 cases (now 74493), +75 deaths (now 5158) since 16 hours ago21:53
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 19:56 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: A domani → https://is.gd/Bb32LW22:02
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 20:09 UTC: Coronavirus halts climate research and raises fears of long-term hit to science budgets: From delaying Arctic expeditions to canceling vital global climate conferences, the coronavirus pandemic has hindered global progress on fighting climate change and threatens effective natural disaster forecasting as hurricane [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/qL0sYl22:16
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 20:17 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Coronavirus updates: U.S. death toll tops 60,000 as labs race for a vaccine → https://is.gd/N8vvx622:23
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 20:20 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Trump says distancing guidelines will 'fade out' as US deaths pass 60,000 → https://is.gd/xJXCyV22:37
BrainstormUpdates for US: +3100 cases (now 1055303), +355 deaths (now 61112) since 52 minutes ago — Massachusetts, US: +1963 cases (now 60265), +252 deaths (now 3405) since a day ago — India: +1275 cases (now 33062), +71 deaths (now 1079) since 5 hours ago22:38
tinwhiskersTop 20 fastest increasing cases: http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Ecuador;Bangladesh;Qatar;Mexico;Belarus;Peru;Russia;Brazil;Saudi%20Arabia;India;Singapore;Pakistan;Ukraine;Egypt;United%20Arab%20Emirates;Colombia;South%20Africa;Indonesia;Chile;Canada;22:46
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 20:37 UTC: JD Wetherspoon plans to reopen pubs in June: After Tim Martin’s scepticism over lockdown, boss has upbeat message for investors → https://is.gd/VCoMzf22:51
BrainstormUpdates for Sao Paulo, Brazil: +2117 cases (now 26158), +198 deaths (now 2247) since 17 hours ago — Santa Catarina, Brazil: +519 cases (now 1995) since 17 hours ago — Pernambuco, Brazil: +470 cases (now 6194) since 17 hours ago22:53
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 20:57 UTC: FDA in 'ongoing' talks with Gilead to make remdesivir available to coronavirus patients 'as quickly as possible': The Food and Drug Administration has been in "sustained and ongoing" discussions with Gilead Sciences to make antiviral drug remdesivir available to Covid-19 patients "as quickly as possible, as [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/DteFnL23:06
BrainstormUpdates for Brazil: +3669 cases (now 78162), +308 deaths (now 5466) since an hour ago — Peru: +2741 cases (now 33931), +89 deaths (now 943) since 23 hours ago23:08
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:28 UTC: (news): Dr. Anthony Fauci says Gilead's remdesivir will set a new 'standard of care' for coronavirus treatment → https://is.gd/p2AX8Q23:34
LjLi have the feeling if Italy re-opens but not to the extent of allowing people to go to mountains or sea in the summer, cities will have much more electricity use than usual from air conditioning, without the grid being otherwise freed up by factories and stores being closed. and even if the grid can manage the load, local transformers may not, so i hope we don't have outages all over the place23:37
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 21:34 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Trump says distancing guidelines will 'fade out' as US deaths pass 60,000 → https://is.gd/xJXCyV23:41
friedbatis that the most common, A/C versus things like open windows, ceiling fans, etc?23:43
BrainstormNew from Ars Technica at 21:40 UTC: Science: First bit of success from a randomized trial of a COVID-19 treatment [UPDATED] → https://is.gd/L71jvf23:48
MaryMI'm leaving23:51
MaryMThis chat23:51
MaryMand the topic for this chat23:51
MaryMis fucking stupid23:51
MaryMand it's the same fucking people23:51
kmen101Hey23:52
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 21:48 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: NT set to announce easing of restrictions as Virgin creditors meet – latest updates → https://is.gd/WWgQ5B23:55
Tramtrist?:|23:57

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