| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:55 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Cuomo says ‘government essential to human life’ → https://is.gd/89ppAV | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: New York Governor tells reopen protesters: "You have no right to jeopardize my health" (10379 votes) | https://redd.it/gcrt4t | 00:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:19 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Virus deaths slow in Italy, NRA lays off employees: Covid-19 has infected more than 3.4 million people around the world as of Sunday, killing at least 244,229 people. → https://is.gd/8kXWOR | 00:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2088 cases (now 3.6 million), +97 deaths (now 248154) since an hour ago — US: +1362 cases (now 1.2 million), +56 deaths (now 68545) since an hour ago — California, US: +788 cases (now 54741) since an hour ago | 00:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:01 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Sydney school closed after student tests positive as death toll hits 95 – latest updates → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 01:06 |
| LjL | in Lombardy it'll be compulsory to wear single-use gloves on public transport. that seems a bit silly | 01:07 |
| LjL | i can use them to improve things, but i can also use sanitizer for the same purposes, while on the other hand, someone who just wears gloves because it's compulsory but otherwise doesn't change any behavior has no advantages for themselves or others really | 01:07 |
| ryouma``` | you sure? single-use implies a lot of gloves. you get on, you don, you don't contaminate as much, you doff? | 01:17 |
| ryouma``` | so they only contaiminate via gloves if they touch face or transport not decontaminated | 01:18 |
| rajrajraj | My brother is stuck in containment zone. He is asymptomatic till now. He has applied on various websites for permission to move out using drivers vehicle etc. Govt isnt giving permission. Yesterday govt announced another way where people would have to get a health cert. Doctors are refusing to give certs. He is pune, india. Can someone please help. | 01:19 |
| LjL | ryouma```, "don", "doff"? do you think people taking public transport are surgeons? | 01:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:12 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Westpac reports 70% drop in cash profits as Sydney school closed after student tests positive – latest updates → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 01:20 |
| LjL | the only thing "single-use" implies here is that people will throw them on the ground | 01:20 |
| LjL | because what are even bins | 01:20 |
| LjL | strange totems of modern society, only existing for puzzlement | 01:20 |
| rajrajraj | Anyone? | 01:32 |
| LjL | rajrajraj, i'm sorry, i have no idea how the lockdown is working in india... what is a containment zone in this case? | 01:33 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: a zone where there are high number of cases | 01:34 |
| rajrajraj | Usually larger than a colony | 01:34 |
| rajrajraj | Smaller than cities | 01:34 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: govt said they would let all stranded students move | 01:35 |
| LjL | probably not in that kind of zones... | 01:35 |
| rajrajraj | They should provide cert. However my brother tried to get cert. Doctors refused. | 01:35 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: wat | 01:36 |
| LjL | i mean that one thing is moving across india in general, but another thing is moving out of containment zones | 01:36 |
| LjL | i didn't know what those were but we have similar things in italy called red zones | 01:36 |
| LjL | you just can't leave a red zone | 01:36 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: red zone is containment zone | 01:38 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: why not | 01:38 |
| LjL | because they're considered zones at high risk of people being infectious | 01:38 |
| LjL | even if you test negative, you may become positive after some days | 01:39 |
| rajrajraj | Asymptomatic | 01:39 |
| LjL | asymptomatic people can spread the disease | 01:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:26 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live updates: 19 people test positive at Victorian meat processing plant – latest news: Westpac reports 70% drop in cash profits as Warragamba public school in Sydney closed for cleaning and contact tracing after a student diagnosed with Covid-19. Follow all the latest news, live → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 01:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:51 UTC: (news): Trump says he believes there will be a coronavirus vaccine 'by the end of the year' → https://is.gd/8xmBZB | 01:55 |
| ryouma``` | just after the election right? | 01:57 |
| ryouma``` | when will n95 respirators come back online? in a month? a year? | 01:58 |
| ryouma``` | for ordinary citizens, construction workers, etc. | 01:58 |
| ytlyv9 | when you vote for trump | 02:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2137 cases (now 3.6 million), +62 deaths (now 248216) since an hour ago — US: +1437 cases (now 1.2 million) since an hour ago — Colorado, US: +410 cases (now 16635) since a day ago | 02:39 |
| nonenothing | questions 1. what if you've already had covid 2. will it mutate and come back next year | 02:45 |
| nonenothing | so what's the deal with this channel? | 02:47 |
| nonenothing | no actual chat? | 02:47 |
| ThomCat[m] | Probably not so much on the weekends | 02:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 3.5 million, Trump predicts a vaccine by end of 2020 → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 02:51 |
| ytlyv9 | covids like the flu your never 100% | 02:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:43 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus Australia live updates: Queensland announces schools return as 19 people test positive at Victorian meat processing plant – latest news → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 02:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 00:53 UTC: CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Bush Calls for Unity. Trump Attacks Bush. And Then a Host of Others. President Trump did not welcome a video by former President George W. Bush appealing for national solidarity in the face of a pandemic, and he made clear that such unity was not on his agenda. → https://is.gd/NR4GIX | 03:05 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: NY Gov lashes out at reopen protests as 299 die of coronavirus overnight: ‘I’m not going to put dollar signs over human lives’ (10267 votes) | https://redd.it/gctk6w | 03:07 |
| LjL | i like it how nonenothing waited an entire seven minutes | 03:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:06 UTC: Coronavirus deaths slow in Italy, NRA lays off employees: Covid-19 has infected more than 3.4 million people around the world as of Sunday, killing at least 244,229 people. → https://is.gd/8kXWOR | 03:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:08 UTC: (news): UK's Boris Johnson says doctors prepared to announce his death as he fought COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qLiVI5 | 03:19 |
| ryouma``` | nra is the gun lobby? | 03:22 |
| ryouma``` | or some italian something? | 03:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2045 cases (now 3.6 million), +112 deaths (now 248328) since 51 minutes ago — Mexico: +1383 cases (now 23471), +93 deaths (now 2154) since a day ago — US: +612 cases (now 1.2 million) since 51 minutes ago | 03:24 |
| mchugh9005 | Any religious chat topics relating to the real world and COVID-19? | 03:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 3.5 million, Trump predicts a vaccine by end of 2020 → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 03:26 |
| mchugh9005 | I asked Brainstorm for permission to message this statement for inquiry. I was believed by a doctor, Lord Jesus Christ, God. I am recognized by doctors, family, and local/state law enforcement. I have a BLOG with COVID-19 information and this related topic with interest over Navy secrecy. @mchugh9005 | 03:33 |
| mchugh9005 | Leave a comment on my BLOG someone. | 03:35 |
| ubLXI | what did Brainstorm say? | 03:35 |
| mchugh9005 | Well. What I know is this? JFK was shot over trying to reveal Aliens in the White House. Later, it was learned they are doctors and process time stamping. My BLOG has further information. Please allow me time to explain. It is of the most cirtical aspect. This be understood properly. What I am saying? Is the truth. | 03:37 |
| ubLXI | no no no | 03:37 |
| ytlyv9 | request denyed lol | 03:37 |
| ubLXI | what did Brainstorm say when you asked permission? | 03:37 |
| mchugh9005 | Please help me. I am in Palm Beach County recognized by local/state law enforcement. (FBI, CIA, and SS incldued.) The FBI is on the way. I need contact for personal aspect on my BLOG. It contains my story as desribed for reference in belief by doctors. They believe me Christ. | 03:39 |
| mchugh9005 | I am waiting for response on matters concerning, but I must make clear my effort to aid my country. I am trying to contact Aliens for a vaccine. I believe they already have. Can we proceed? | 03:39 |
| ytlyv9 | scam | 03:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:29 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year: President’s pandemic taskforce said vaccine would take 18 months; Brazil passes 100,000 cases; New Zealand records no new cases for first time. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 03:40 |
| ytlyv9 | try less fake | 03:40 |
| ytlyv9 | mchugh9005, | 03:40 |
| ubLXI | heh | 03:42 |
| ytlyv9 | how do these arkham inmates get on here | 03:44 |
| xionbox[m] | What the rationale for many US states to open up again now? It seems to me that nearly nothing has changed in the past two months. There still isn't any widespread testing, still no widespread wearing of masks, and still no contact tracing. What am I missing here? | 03:46 |
| xrogaan | money. | 03:47 |
| xionbox[m] | So it's an economic reason instead of a public health reason? | 03:49 |
| xrogaan | No, I mean, politicians also have jobs. They'd like to keep it. | 03:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for England, United Kingdom: +22640 cases (now 124861), +8743 deaths (now 25528) since 10 days ago — Moscow City, Russia: +17960 cases (now 68606), +183 deaths (now 729) since 4 days ago — South Holland, Netherlands: +6664 cases (now 7881) since 13 days ago | 03:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:56 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 3.5 million, Trump predicts a vaccine by end of 2020 → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 04:01 |
| achelois | If you get Covid-19 how long does it usually take for a person to fight off and clear the virus? | 04:02 |
| ytlyv9 | your never 100% again | 04:02 |
| ytlyv9 | no mather what you do | 04:03 |
| achelois | true?? | 04:03 |
| achelois | what about this80% who they say get it mildly | 04:03 |
| achelois | like kids and those under 50? | 04:03 |
| ubLXI | ytlyv9: s/your/you're/ | 04:03 |
| ubLXI | ytlyv9: s/mather/matter/ | 04:03 |
| ytlyv9 | a what who gone | 04:04 |
| Julius5_2 | 95% get no or mild symptoms | 04:04 |
| ubLXI | achelois: it varies from so mind you didn't know you had it, to a month, to potentially long lasting difficulties | 04:04 |
| Julius5_2 | But mild can mean like a bad flu | 04:04 |
| ubLXI | hard to say how the long term picture will develop | 04:04 |
| achelois | oh ok | 04:04 |
| Julius5_2 | achelois, are you following me into multiple channels? | 04:05 |
| ubLXI | ubLXI: s/mind/mild/ | 04:05 |
| achelois | umm no | 04:05 |
| achelois | I have been on coronavirus channels since January | 04:05 |
| Julius5_2 | I was banned on the other corona channel for telling facts | 04:05 |
| achelois | alternative facts? | 04:06 |
| achelois | joking | 04:06 |
| Julius5_2 | Fascism seems to be en vogue | 04:06 |
| achelois | hmm | 04:07 |
| ubLXI | Julius5_2: maybe you were banned for unwarranted precision? how do you arrive at the 95% figure? | 04:07 |
| ytlyv9 | Julius5_2, has taking the trump cure | 04:07 |
| Julius5_2 | Especially on the internet, where you never get those fascist admins | 04:07 |
| Julius5_2 | ubLXI, I read it. I confess I did not do all the scientific research myself | 04:07 |
| Julius5_2 | ytlyv, Trump is an idiot, but I wish he was my president. He's not doing that bad | 04:08 |
| ubLXI | since we can only estimate the prevalence of asymptomatic infection, it's hard to say, though, isn't it? | 04:08 |
| dunnp | whats the 95% number? | 04:08 |
| Julius5_2 | Those "infection" numbers seem to be completely useless anyway | 04:08 |
| ytlyv9 | opening up up states when no progress has been made | 04:09 |
| ytlyv9 | total jackass | 04:09 |
| ubLXI | for symptomatic infection, isn't it still 80% get a mild course, where mild includes walking pneumonia? | 04:09 |
| Julius5_2 | I hate when anyone speaks about the number of infections, even though this number is unknown to everyone | 04:09 |
| ubLXI | you hate it, but you still cited 95% in spite of that number relying on accurate infection data? | 04:10 |
| dunnp | 95% what | 04:10 |
| dunnp | no symptoms? | 04:11 |
| ubLXI | dunnp: | 04:11 |
| ubLXI | <achelois> If you get Covid-19 how long does it usually take for a person to fight off and clear the virus? | 04:11 |
| ubLXI | <Julius5_2> 95% get no or mild symptoms | 04:11 |
| dunnp | wow I'm blind ty | 04:12 |
| achelois | Today I am reading news reports of skin rashes being a new symptom | 04:13 |
| sookie | achelois: they've been reporting that for a few weeks now. there's even a term "covid toes" | 04:14 |
| dunnp | I thought the estimated mortality rate from the NY study was at 1% but still worried about false positivies to the test inflating results | 04:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 02:07 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Consideration of the Aerosol Transmission for COVID‐19 and Public Health → https://is.gd/sDqB8F | 04:15 |
| sookie | dunnp: lower than 1% | 04:16 |
| sookie | i don't think the numbers are in yet, but i've heard people suggest between 25% and 50% of those who get infected with SARS2 develop no symptoms. | 04:18 |
| dunnp | hmm I saw apot on at 1% | 04:19 |
| dunnp | spot* | 04:19 |
| dunnp | hard to be exact with the shitty testing though | 04:19 |
| ubLXI | seen estimates from 0.5% to 1% | 04:19 |
| sookie | dunnp: no, the inference from the NY antibody study was that about 0.56% of those infected died. | 04:19 |
| sookie | dunnp: it ranged a bit. was a bit higher in westchester. but that sample was smaller so the number is less accurate. | 04:20 |
| sookie | but for nyc, the biggest sample, it was around 0.56% | 04:20 |
| dunnp | ah k | 04:23 |
| dunnp | need to figure out how to get our hospitals back up for regular business or we're going to have secondary deaths too | 04:27 |
| ryouma``` | when will their ppe be secure | 04:27 |
| sookie | i don't know about europe but people in the u.s. have about had it with the lockdown | 04:28 |
| dunnp | good question ryouma``` | 04:28 |
| dunnp | have they sookie? | 04:28 |
| sookie | dunnp: i think so...i am sensing a growing desire to get out | 04:28 |
| sookie | and i think people don't understand the measures. take the state of maine. it's had only 50 deaths. they can't understand why the entire maine economy had to be destroyed for this. | 04:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:20 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: Jacinda Ardern to join national cabinet meeting as Queensland announces schools return – latest updates: Nineteen people test positive at Victorian meat processing plant; Westpac reports 70% drop in cash profits; and Warragamba public school in Sydney closes after a student [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 04:29 |
| dunnp | https://www.people-press.org/2020/04/16/covid-19-and-the-countrys-trajectory/ | 04:30 |
| dunnp | page 3 implies people are worried about opening | 04:30 |
| sookie | that's not news. of course people are "worried" because there's a pandemic and if you get hit hard, you die. | 04:31 |
| sookie | just like people are worried about drunk drivers | 04:31 |
| sookie | doesn't mean they stop driving. | 04:31 |
| dunnp | https://www.people-press.org/2020/04/16/covid-19-and-the-countrys-trajectory/pp_2020-04-16_trump-and-covid-19_2-01/ | 04:32 |
| dunnp | this one | 04:32 |
| sookie | the entire point of the lockdown was to "flatten" the curve not to wait it out for 18 months until a vaccine arrives. | 04:33 |
| sookie | that's been achieved. the curve is flattened. | 04:34 |
| lennykitty | if we reopen, it wont be. | 04:34 |
| sookie | and now there is enough testing capacity to be able to quickly isolate hotspots if you re-opne | 04:34 |
| dunnp | i mean it is starting to flatten.. | 04:34 |
| lennykitty | oh you mean like china? | 04:34 |
| lennykitty | yah | 04:35 |
| lennykitty | that worked :) | 04:35 |
| dunnp | there isn't enough testing still | 04:35 |
| lennykitty | All it takes is one person to leave wuhan. | 04:35 |
| lennykitty | or one guard to get infected | 04:35 |
| sookie | lennykitty: so what, you stay in lockdown for a year? | 04:35 |
| dunnp | if we had really comprehensive testing then I'd be all for opening | 04:36 |
| dunnp | like SK | 04:36 |
| lennykitty | sookie: partially | 04:36 |
| dunnp | want to be able to get a drive-through test | 04:36 |
| lennykitty | We should reopen some things, soonish. | 04:37 |
| dunnp | or daily testing at hospital | 04:37 |
| dunnp | for hospital workers | 04:37 |
| sookie | i have converged on the idea that the best situation is to protect the vulnerable population (say 65+) and let everyone else go about their business | 04:37 |
| lennykitty | but any sort of work that can be done remotely should be done remotely. | 04:37 |
| sookie | when you remove the elderly, this thing is probably less deadly than the flu | 04:37 |
| sookie | and nobody locks down for the flu | 04:37 |
| lennykitty | It is more infectious | 04:37 |
| sookie | that's ok | 04:37 |
| dunnp | its causing permanent damage to people's lungs too | 04:37 |
| ubLXI | very difficult to isolate the vulnerable, though, sookie; that firewall fails easily | 04:38 |
| lennykitty | any work that can be done remotely should be done remotely | 04:38 |
| ubLXI | but wasn't US just the other day talking about hiring 180,000 contact tracers? | 04:38 |
| lennykitty | thats my rule. | 04:38 |
| dunnp | were they ubLXI? | 04:38 |
| ryouma``` | protecting the vulnerable, you ahve to protect those who care for them, those who live with them, and those who have contact with them, too. just pointing out. | 04:38 |
| lennykitty | if theres some sort of economically vital work that cant be done remotely and the workplace isnt some sort of hotbed. | 04:38 |
| lennykitty | then ok | 04:38 |
| lennykitty | fine | 04:38 |
| sookie | for a kid who is hungry, his father's job is "economically vital" | 04:39 |
| ubLXI | having low case numbers and an army of contact tracers will help open things up | 04:39 |
| sookie | even if government decides it isn't | 04:39 |
| lennykitty | sookie: except his daddy gets unemployment. | 04:39 |
| lennykitty | 2400 a month minimum | 04:39 |
| dunnp | that would certainly be a good way to do it ubLXI | 04:39 |
| ubLXI | dunnp: well the CDC is talking about it: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/open-america/contact-tracing.html | 04:40 |
| dunnp | but I doubt that is happening | 04:40 |
| dunnp | hmm | 04:40 |
| ubLXI | can't remember where i saw the 180,000 number, and what the state of play is there; looking | 04:41 |
| ryouma``` | 2400 a month? that is enormous. | 04:41 |
| dunnp | right now I am paying 4 people who can't do any work - I'd love to have them go back to work.. but when it is safe | 04:41 |
| lennykitty | if there in the usa. | 04:41 |
| sookie | lockdowns were a fear-fueled reaction. nasty virus, seemingly high death rate (recall back in february, that "experts" thought it was 3%-5% or more), no vaccine, no known therapies, not enough tests, not enough masks. so what do you do? lockdown!!! | 04:41 |
| sookie | but that time has passed | 04:42 |
| dunnp | lennykitty: it is $600/wk + regular unemployement so higher than that by a good bit | 04:42 |
| lennykitty | dunnp: thats why I said minimum. :P | 04:42 |
| lennykitty | sookie: timmys dad gets unemployment problem solved | 04:43 |
| ryouma``` | we still need masks, treatments, tests, vaccine. where i am, they didn't even test anybody except a really limited set until recently. | 04:43 |
| lennykitty | dunnp: honestly, many essential workers are probably better off getting unemployment but I guess they rather work, maybe that implies something about how people arent just welfare bums. lol | 04:44 |
| ryouma``` | lockdowns felt like really reluctant actions in most places, not panicked actions | 04:44 |
| Toadisattva | ideally we'd test everyone that enters a public building with a quick test, but we are a ways off from having that level of surplus | 04:44 |
| ryouma``` | indeed, humans want to work | 04:44 |
| sookie | look, the death rate is most likely less than 1%, meaning 99%+ do fine. some might have a lingering cough or a bit of lung damage. but living in beijing for a year probably causes more lung damage. | 04:45 |
| Toadisattva | I think mandatory masks in all public places is something we could implement pretty easily though | 04:45 |
| sookie | you don't kill the world's economies for something that has a 99%+ survival rate | 04:45 |
| ryouma``` | sookie: btw we don't know the long term results. there are indications that they could be quite bad for a nontrivial proporion. lung issues. alzheimer's, parkinson's, and m.e. area ll possibilities. | 04:46 |
| sookie | western europe and the u.s. will survive. rich countries. so they'll bounce back. | 04:46 |
| sookie | but africa? south america? | 04:46 |
| sookie | those countries will be set back decades. they won't recover for years and years. | 04:46 |
| sookie | you don't do this for something that only kills fewer than 1 out of every 100. and usually that 1 had some severe co-morbidity that had them on the way out anyways. | 04:47 |
| ryouma``` | i take exception to that last sentence | 04:47 |
| sookie | you don't think more of the fatalities have serious health issues? | 04:47 |
| sookie | s/more/most/ | 04:48 |
| ryouma``` | "had them on the way out anyways" | 04:48 |
| Toadisattva | don't forget the predictions it will come back and be more deadly come flu season | 04:48 |
| sookie | well, we're all on the way out. breaking news: we all die. | 04:48 |
| ubLXI | this April 29th article talks about state efforts to hire contact tracers; it opens with "U.S. health experts say a force of as many as 300,000 contact tracers is crucial for coast-to-coast reopening in the wake of the new coronavirus." - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-29/ragtag-army-of-virus-tracers-shapes-up-with-states-hiring-fast | 04:49 |
| sookie | but those with severe co-morbidities are on their way out sooner | 04:49 |
| Toadisattva | yeah but I'd rather live without permanant lung and organ damage | 04:49 |
| ryouma``` | i disagree witht he argument "we are all going to die., therefore it is ok if your grandmother dies in this case right now." | 04:49 |
| sookie | grandmother might die if the hospital goes bust because the lockdown caused them to close | 04:49 |
| sookie | grandmother might die crossing the street | 04:50 |
| sookie | life isn't a risk-less afair | 04:50 |
| sookie | it's a risk-management affair | 04:50 |
| dunnp | hospitals going bust is a real concern | 04:50 |
| sookie | you weight costs versus benefits | 04:50 |
| ryouma``` | ok, i'm not going to encourage this by participating (and can't type that much) | 04:50 |
| sookie | dunnp: hospitals are already close to going bust | 04:51 |
| sookie | and doctors and nurses have been laid off | 04:51 |
| dunnp | i think if we inundate them with a second wave then we will lose a lot | 04:51 |
| sookie | they can't afford to operate without all their elective surgery revenue | 04:51 |
| dunnp | yes | 04:51 |
| ryouma``` | elective surgeries are being authorized (yeah i know i said i wouldn't participate) | 04:51 |
| dunnp | my hospital is at about $200M loss right now | 04:51 |
| sookie | these are also costs of lockdown | 04:52 |
| dunnp | we dont have the ability to do elective surgeries | 04:52 |
| sookie | some of these costs, are fatalities | 04:52 |
| dunnp | but it will be worse if there is another surge | 04:52 |
| ryouma``` | (in places where it is possible) | 04:52 |
| ryouma``` | (or seems so atm) | 04:52 |
| sookie | dunnp: you work in a hospital? | 04:52 |
| dunnp | yes | 04:52 |
| sookie | ok, so you understandably care a lot about hospitals | 04:52 |
| sookie | but other industries are also dying | 04:53 |
| sookie | meat plants | 04:53 |
| sookie | etc | 04:53 |
| sookie | trucking | 04:53 |
| Toadisattva | we could do so much needed economic restructuring | 04:53 |
| sookie | if these fail it also has very concrete costs to society | 04:53 |
| ryouma``` | can national guards do contact tracing? | 04:53 |
| sookie | i personally don't believe lockdowns are sustainable | 04:54 |
| ryouma``` | why is the stock market so optimistic? | 04:54 |
| sookie | so we need to find an alternative set-up | 04:54 |
| sookie | where you minimize costs (note: not eliminate but minimize) | 04:54 |
| dunnp | masks testing contact tracing | 04:55 |
| ubLXI | p much | 04:55 |
| sookie | ubLXI said you can't protect the elderly with 100% effectiveness. the firewall can be breached. | 04:55 |
| sookie | that's true | 04:55 |
| sookie | but that's always been true | 04:55 |
| achelois | it's weird now facebook with a black background | 04:56 |
| sookie | you can't avoid car deaths with seat belts. but you can improve your chances a lot. that's what we need. | 04:56 |
| sookie | measures that will make things as good as possible without destroying the country in the process. | 04:56 |
| dunnp | also once all the hospital workers have had it, things will get more efficient | 04:56 |
| achelois | I am going to watch this show tonight https://twitter.com/QandA/status/1257082510951006210?s=20 on Covid-19 of course | 04:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:49 UTC: Jacinda Ardern: Jacinda Ardern joins national cabinet meeting as Australia, New Zealand share coronavirus strategy → https://is.gd/gnOXjJ | 04:57 |
| vaak | anyone + here? | 04:58 |
| ubLXI | there are deep seated structural reasons why the vulnerable people firewall is porous; masks/testing/tracing probably gets us open quickly than resolving structural issues | 04:58 |
| ryouma``` | my understanding is that n95 production requires components that are not trivial to manufacture. presumably these are sourced from china to some degree. what steps are being taken to source them outside the major existing sources? | 04:58 |
| ryouma``` | (and is china exporting at pre-pandemic levels) | 04:58 |
| ubLXI | hi vaak | 04:58 |
| vaak | hello | 04:58 |
| sookie | there's a worldwide shortage of meltblown fabric | 04:59 |
| vaak | have you tested +? | 04:59 |
| sookie | i think china makes most of it | 04:59 |
| ubLXI | vaak: nope. you? | 04:59 |
| ryouma``` | can this be bootstrapped in the us? | 04:59 |
| vaak | - | 04:59 |
| vaak | have you tested at all? | 04:59 |
| sookie | but i wouldn't be surprised if u.s., germany, etc aren't working to ramp up their manufacturing capacity | 04:59 |
| ubLXI | hopefully most countries will be revisiting the question of local manufacturing | 05:00 |
| sookie | ryouma```: you can, but the machines that make it are very specialized, so we need to make the machines first. | 05:00 |
| dunnp | aren't n95s just polypropylene? | 05:01 |
| vaak | make to 660 people here@ Brainstorm | 05:01 |
| vaak | @ ChanServ | 05:01 |
| vaak | [Awaxx] | 05:01 |
| vaak | a--a[m] | 05:01 |
| vaak | aalfkw[m] | 05:01 |
| vaak | absnc | 05:01 |
| vaak | achelois | 05:01 |
| vaak | Acoustic[m] | 05:01 |
| vaak | adam[m]4 | 05:01 |
| vaak | adamantium[m] | 05:01 |
| vaak | adebali[m] | 05:01 |
| vaak | adiman[m] | 05:01 |
| vaak | af21[m] | 05:01 |
| vaak | ailikes[m] | 05:01 |
| vaak | AimHere | 05:01 |
| vaak | airdog[m] | 05:01 |
| vaak | aj[m]1 | 05:01 |
| sookie | wtf | 05:01 |
| vaak | ajunior | 05:01 |
| achelois | hello | 05:01 |
| dunnp | there's no shortage of that | 05:01 |
| ubLXI | vaak? | 05:02 |
| sookie | there's a shortage of melt-blown propelyene | 05:02 |
| sookie | n95 masks usually have 4 layers | 05:02 |
| tinwhiskers | vaak: please don't do that | 05:02 |
| vaak | make the machines to make the machines | 05:02 |
| sookie | spun-bound polypropylene (inner and outer layer) is availabe. | 05:02 |
| vaak | bad paste | 05:02 |
| sookie | melt-blown polypropylene (middle filter layer) is not | 05:02 |
| achelois | is this n95 https://www.amazon.com.au/Amazer-Tec-Pollution-Woodworking-Activities/dp/B082KY311P/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=n95&qid=1588561343&s=home-improvement&sr=1-2 | 05:03 |
| vaak | you got no flood controil here? | 05:03 |
| ubLXI | some | 05:03 |
| sookie | achelois: probably not. and the design sucks. | 05:04 |
| achelois | oh ok | 05:04 |
| achelois | thanks | 05:04 |
| sookie | the point of masks is in large part to prevent the wearer to infect others | 05:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:00 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 3.5 million, Trump predicts a vaccine by end of 2020 → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 05:04 |
| sookie | exhaust valves is the opposite of what you want | 05:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Quebec, Canada: +2209 cases (now 31873), +70 deaths (now 2206) since a day ago — World: +918 cases (now 3.6 million) since an hour ago — Brazil: +679 cases (now 101826) since 6 hours ago | 05:05 |
| vaak | Trump is a profet | 05:05 |
| ubLXI | he is? | 05:06 |
| achelois | profit? | 05:06 |
| vaak | Prophet | 05:06 |
| achelois | he predicted it would disappear didn't he? | 05:06 |
| sookie | achelois: get a good multi-layer cotton mask | 05:06 |
| achelois | perhaps | 05:06 |
| ytlyv9 | trump is your pray to him for the cure | 05:06 |
| achelois | ok thanks sookie | 05:06 |
| ytlyv9 | god | 05:07 |
| sookie | achelois: some have a pocket between layers to put in filter material | 05:07 |
| sookie | and you can put paper towel in there | 05:07 |
| achelois | ARe they wearing masks in India? | 05:07 |
| Toadisattva | vacuum filter is almost as effective as n95 | 05:07 |
| sookie | hepa filter is hard to breath through though | 05:08 |
| Toadisattva | slightly more than a surgical mask | 05:08 |
| vaak | if Trump was poor wed be saop boxing | 05:08 |
| sookie | you have to balance ease of breathing with filtering amount | 05:08 |
| jacklsw | some poor folks can't even afford food during lockdown, what about masks | 05:08 |
| Toadisattva | I think it's less about affording masks than the fact they are not available | 05:08 |
| vaak | scuba tanks | 05:09 |
| ytlyv9 | telemarketing meeting in india | 05:09 |
| ytlyv9 | all the latest scams including the new covid ones | 05:09 |
| Toadisattva | I get they need the ppe for hospitals, but I think it's overlooked that if the population had access to a decent masks, it would keep a lot of people out of the hospitals int he first place | 05:10 |
| sookie | i don't know. japan has masks all over the place and they're facing surging cases | 05:10 |
| vaak | i do ppe at the wc | 05:11 |
| vaak | im a poet | 05:11 |
| Toadisattva | they are largelu just using cloth masks too | 05:11 |
| sookie | Toadisattva: you would need full PPE, n95+vinyl eye covering+hazmat suit+gloves | 05:11 |
| Toadisattva | the government is providing masks to them but just fabric | 05:11 |
| sookie | who is going to walk around like that? | 05:11 |
| Toadisattva | nah I think if everyone just had an n95 we'd cut transmission by a huge percentage | 05:12 |
| vaak | lol | 05:12 |
| ryouma``` | or even just regulated surgical masks | 05:12 |
| Toadisattva | honestly even if everyone just wore their cloth masks it'll help immensely | 05:12 |
| ubLXI | what proportion of western population still watch tv? | 05:12 |
| vaak | try geting a todler using a mask | 05:12 |
| ubLXI | would a 2 min slot every night talking over proper mask use reach most people? | 05:13 |
| Toadisattva | well toddlers and elderly should stay home | 05:13 |
| sookie | no way | 05:13 |
| Toadisattva | don't take your kids to the grocery store | 05:13 |
| divcon[m] | Mainstream media is lying | 05:13 |
| sookie | you'd need to use social media as well | 05:13 |
| sookie | tv might get middle age and up | 05:13 |
| Toadisattva | its not that effective even with social media | 05:13 |
| Toadisattva | everyone shared the pee meme | 05:13 |
| vaak | here they are opnening the kinder gardens | 05:13 |
| Toadisattva | 90% of them still aren't wearing their mask | 05:13 |
| vaak | cause kids dont get it | 05:14 |
| vaak | LOL | 05:14 |
| sookie | but you can do it | 05:14 |
| sookie | czech republic had a masks4all campaign | 05:14 |
| jacklsw | WHO was the one asking us not to wear mask initially if we are not sick | 05:14 |
| sookie | and it worked, they quickly got their entire population masked up | 05:14 |
| Toadisattva | yeah they did | 05:14 |
| vaak | here also gown ups dont get it too | 05:14 |
| Toadisattva | they mandated it | 05:14 |
| ubLXI | maybe we should have widespread tv/social media campaign | 05:15 |
| achelois | https://twitter.com/7NewsAustralia/status/1257145339531849728?s=20 | 05:15 |
| sookie | jacklsw: WHO screwed the pooch a lot. they were saying people didn't need PPE while at the same time China was buying PPE across the globe (hoarding) | 05:15 |
| Toadisattva | I think it's crazy that any public place is letting people in without their faces covered | 05:15 |
| Toadisattva | costco has mandated em | 05:15 |
| sookie | some have said WHO was repeating what China told them to say | 05:15 |
| ryouma``` | it was probably to protect hospitals | 05:15 |
| ryouma``` | misguided | 05:15 |
| ryouma``` | hcw | 05:16 |
| vaak | 05:16 | |
| ryouma``` | do we /have/ the materials for decent masks? i think the surgical-ish masks i ordered frmo amazon months ago have not arrived. | 05:17 |
| vaak | i should be wereing a mask seting up my fb page | 05:17 |
| vaak | amaizon | 05:18 |
| sookie | those blue things amazon sells? | 05:18 |
| sookie | they lack the meltblown stuff | 05:18 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma```: shop towels and vacuum cleaner bags are about 95% as effective as surgical masks | 05:18 |
| sookie | it's made-in-china junk | 05:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:04 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: Jacinda Ardern to join national cabinet meeting as Queensland announces schools return – latest updates: Nineteen people test positive at Victorian meat processing plant; Westpac reports 70% drop in cash profits; and Warragamba public school in Sydney closes after a student [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 05:18 |
| sookie | the good made-in-china stuff isn't available on amazon | 05:18 |
| Toadisattva | the mask situation is pretty crazy, FEMA is seizing every shipment they can, diverting them to these new private companies that formed for this purpose, then selling them to highest bidding hospitals | 05:19 |
| tinwhiskers | note: surical masks, not n95 masks | 05:19 |
| Toadisattva | it's pretty criminal really | 05:19 |
| Toadisattva | you get governments doing secret underground deals to buy masks from asia so FEMA doesn't find out and seize em | 05:19 |
| vaak | they use mask for water boarding | 05:19 |
| Toadisattva | local governments* | 05:19 |
| achelois | https://www.amazon.com.au/s?k=face+mask&ref=nb_sb_noss_1 <- I am looking here but can't decide which are good or not | 05:19 |
| sookie | they're all bad | 05:19 |
| Toadisattva | also basically all the ppe coming out of china is the reject product | 05:20 |
| Toadisattva | fails in testing | 05:20 |
| vaak | i think this is just the world geting read for nuclear war | 05:20 |
| Toadisattva | taiwan and singapore and such are putting out good quality ppe | 05:20 |
| sookie | yes, the stuff normal people can buy right now from china (via amazon) is the junk | 05:20 |
| sookie | make your own | 05:20 |
| ubLXI | vaak: could you reign your thoughts in a bit? | 05:20 |
| vaak | fallout prevention | 05:21 |
| achelois | oh | 05:21 |
| vaak | that sort of thing | 05:21 |
| vaak | its a drill | 05:22 |
| ubLXI | *reins, even | 05:23 |
| achelois | What about this: https://www.bunnings.com.au/p2-particulate-lawn-and-garden-valved-respirator-2-pack_p0123560 | 05:23 |
| achelois | n95 | 05:23 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm personally quite anti- valved masks. They do very little to protect other people around you, which is really where the big benefit of people wearing masks comes in | 05:24 |
| Toadisattva | ^^^^ | 05:24 |
| tinwhiskers | You'd probably be doing society more help overall by wearing a fabric mask | 05:24 |
| tinwhiskers | and we need to think about society as a whole, not just ourselves if we want the lockdowns to end soon | 05:25 |
| ryouma``` | achelois: they want me to sign up before i can even look at the page? no thanks. | 05:25 |
| Toadisattva | you can always wear that kind of mask with a fabric mask over it and that's better than just a fabric mask | 05:25 |
| tinwhiskers | Toadisattva++ | 05:25 |
| achelois | good idea Toadisattva | 05:25 |
| ryouma``` | i wonder if you can tape valves shut | 05:25 |
| vaak | coff sirup? | 05:26 |
| tinwhiskers | vaak: you're really not making a lot of sense. Maybe you should consider taking your random thoughts to ##coronavirus-vox? | 05:26 |
| vaak | cough syrup | 05:27 |
| Toadisattva | what about it? | 05:27 |
| tinwhiskers | even spelled correctly it doesn't make any sense | 05:27 |
| vaak | would prevent people spreading virus | 05:28 |
| tinwhiskers | no, it wouldn't | 05:28 |
| vaak | it would that how 90% flu virus spread | 05:28 |
| sookie | you mean cough suppression? maybe would help a tiny bit. | 05:28 |
| Toadisattva | cough syrup doesn't necessarily stop you coughing | 05:29 |
| sookie | but normal respiration is enough | 05:29 |
| vaak | that your opinion and i respect that | 05:29 |
| sookie | for transmission | 05:29 |
| tinwhiskers | you're coughing because of your lungs, not a sore throat. Cough syrup doesn't go into your lungs | 05:29 |
| sookie | cough syrup doesn't work by going into the lungs | 05:29 |
| vaak | it also afects the lungs | 05:29 |
| tinwhiskers | right | 05:29 |
| sookie | it suppresses the cough-reaction | 05:30 |
| Toadisattva | its gotta get into your respiration holes to infect you, and it's gotta exit your respiration holes to infect others, o cover your respiration holes | 05:30 |
| Toadisattva | easy peasy | 05:30 |
| Toadisattva | so* | 05:30 |
| vaak | think peppermmit | 05:30 |
| Toadisattva | oh it's past my bedtime | 05:30 |
| Toadisattva | night night | 05:30 |
| sookie | obviously anything that reduces the amount of aerosolization will reduce transmission to some degree. but i don't think cough suppressants will have the big impact you think. | 05:31 |
| sookie | after all, don't they believe asymptomatics are a big infection vector? | 05:31 |
| sookie | asymptomatics aren't coughing | 05:31 |
| vaak | or just stop breating | 05:31 |
| sookie | breathing cessation might work a lot better | 05:32 |
| sookie | but the side effects might be bad | 05:32 |
| ubLXI | i'm sure i remember seeing, in one of the broad drug-target studies, mention of compounds in common over the counter cough medicines being predicted in modelling to actually assist viral infection | 05:32 |
| ubLXI | can't remember where i saw that though | 05:32 |
| vaak | cover your respiration holes will do it | 05:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:24 UTC: New Zealand: New Zealand records first day with no new Covid-19 cases since before lockdown → https://is.gd/HNeLVz | 05:32 |
| vaak | waterboarding the world | 05:33 |
| ubLXI | oh, vaak | 05:33 |
| vaak | iceland ? | 05:34 |
| ryouma``` | really not sure whether to go to dentist | 05:34 |
| sookie | how urgent is it? | 05:34 |
| tinwhiskers | ok, antitussive cough medicines do reduce the cough reflex, they are certainly not going to "prevent people spreading virus". | 05:34 |
| vaak | use a mask if you do | 05:35 |
| sookie | if you have an abscessed molar with pus leaking out your mouth, i'd go. | 05:35 |
| sookie | if you want to go get your 6-month cleaning, i'd postpone | 05:36 |
| vaak | they will to a certain degree | 05:36 |
| vaak | here people cant go to the beach but todlers are going to kindergarden | 05:37 |
| sookie | the beach closings make no sense to me | 05:37 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: France: Re-tested blood of 24 patients treated in December for pneumonia finds Covid-positive (10024 votes) | https://redd.it/gcwauy | 05:38 |
| achelois | May the forth be with you. | 05:38 |
| achelois | That's interesting from CoronaBot | 05:38 |
| vaak | todlers with out masks that crawl alover and put everyting the their mouth | 05:38 |
| vaak | what a great move | 05:39 |
| vaak | cause kids dont get covid .... | 05:39 |
| achelois | 1 in 24 though so it seems still...interesting. | 05:39 |
| ryouma``` | i have a cavity that is causing a bit of problems that has not been looked at by a dentist (only a hygientist who uncovered it during a scraping), a scraping ont eh other side that the dentist said was really urgent and the reason so many extractions, which he said 6mo ago, and a filling that fell out but which is not causing problems. we are just exiting lockdown. going anyplace is a serious hardship for my healt | 05:40 |
| ryouma``` | h, but if the cabity turns out to be fillable now and would end up being extracted and losing chewing ability as a reasult, maybe worth it maybe not. dunno. don't know the seriousness of the precautions the dentist will take or whether a bunch of appointments willb e packed intoa signle day. | 05:40 |
| vaak | dentists are know cause of cavities | 05:41 |
| sookie | fill it yourself for nowe | 05:41 |
| dunnp | hmm if there was earlier transmission I had 2 students come back from China right before the travel ban and then had a nasty flu | 05:41 |
| vaak | fill it with toothpaste | 05:41 |
| vaak | i thought they invented 3d printers to make tooth repacements | 05:42 |
| sookie | i wonder why we have so many teeth problems and other animals don't. | 05:43 |
| sookie | we must have total shit diets | 05:43 |
| sookie | refined sugars and all that crap | 05:43 |
| vaak | we got to grade bacterias | 05:43 |
| vaak | top grade bacterias top grade virus | 05:44 |
| sookie | hah | 05:44 |
| vaak | we are the top if the nature | 05:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:39 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year: President’s pandemic taskforce said vaccine would take 18 months; Brazil passes 100,000 cases; New Zealand records no new cases for first time. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 05:46 |
| vaak | we are like the maserati of the animal kingdom | 05:47 |
| vaak | every other species wants to ride us | 05:47 |
| ubLXI | ryouma```: have you spoken with your dentist by telephone to get their opinion? | 05:48 |
| vaak | dentist i hate dentists they treat cavities with a drill how that makes any sence? | 05:49 |
| vaak | its like treating covid with more covid | 05:50 |
| vaak | medecine doesnt have any major breakthrus since penicilin | 05:52 |
| vaak | irc hackers | 05:59 |
| vaak | privacy peeps | 05:59 |
| vaak | ther skum of the world | 06:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:53 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: Jacinda Ardern to join national cabinet meeting as Queensland announces schools return – latest updates: Nineteen people test positive at Victorian meat processing plant; Westpac reports 70% drop in cash profits; and Warragamba public school in Sydney closes after a student [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 06:00 |
| achelois | Everyone seems to love Jacinda Ardern | 06:02 |
| LjL | sookie, it's probably true wrt cavities that we have shit diets and hunters/gatherers probably got them much less, but, we've had shit diets for quite a while... dentistry existed as a profession in ancient egypt, etc | 06:03 |
| LjL | cavities were definitely a thing as soon as we had agriculture | 06:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:09 UTC: AFL 'almost past' controversial hub idea as Covid-19 cases decline, says sport minister: Rising hope 2020 season can resume by end of June Clubs begin to call back players in readiness for restart Federal sports minister Richard Colbeck says the AFL season will be able to resume without quarantine hubs if Covid-19 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/08MPcF | 06:14 |
| ryouma``` | ubLXI: i can't talk on telephone but am trying to figure out what to ask and not get dropped from his list doing so and word it correctly and my brain is fried trying | 06:14 |
| ubLXI | ryouma```: can't talk? | 06:15 |
| ryouma``` | health reawsosn | 06:15 |
| ryouma``` | reasons* | 06:15 |
| ubLXI | but you can communicate with... email? | 06:16 |
| ryouma``` | something like that | 06:17 |
| ubLXI | i suppose i'd give a brief description of the problem, then ask for his view of the risk of treating versus the risk of not treating. | 06:17 |
| ryouma``` | good idea. althouthough he'd likely say that he hasn't seen the cavity so can't say anything about it. also, it was strange that 6mo ago he said the scraping was "urgent" (his word) and that it was the cause of extractions being needed, yet made the appointment for 6mo out. so idk what to make of that. | 06:20 |
| ubLXI | he will be able to take a balanced view of the risks, in general, though | 06:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:18 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 3.5 million, Trump predicts a vaccine by end of 2020 → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 06:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:38 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year as global cases top 3.5m: President’s pandemic taskforce said vaccine would take 18 months; Brazil passes 100,000 cases; New Zealand records no new cases for first time. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 06:50 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Anthony Fauci Nominated for an ‘Oscar’ of Civil Service (10209 votes) | https://redd.it/gd1699 | 07:02 |
| MjrTom | Lol!! | 07:03 |
| MjrTom | Wait a minute: I feel cheated; that is NOT actually for his playing make-believe! | 07:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:08 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 3.5 million, Trump predicts a vaccine by end of 2020 → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 07:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:30 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year as global cases top 3.5m: President’s pandemic taskforce said vaccine would take 18 months; Brazil passes 100,000 cases; New Zealand records no new cases for first time. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 07:32 |
| JonNodveit | I, USA or someone from america latina | 07:33 |
| JonNodveit | emphatics here | 07:36 |
| Flaviker | !covid bulgaria | 07:38 |
| CoronaBot | Bulgaria: Global rank: #77, cases: 1,618, fatalities: 73, active cases: 1,237, total recovered: 308, in a serious condition: 39. Mortality: 4.51%, case fatality rate: 19.16%, cases/1M: 233.0, deaths/1M: 11.0. Case rate: 24/24h, death rate: 1/24h. Tests: 47,636, tests/1M: 6,856. | 07:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 3.5 million, Trump predicts a vaccine by end of 2020 → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 07:46 |
| term99 | %data ohio | 08:07 |
| Brainstorm | term99: In Ohio, US, there are 19916 total cases (0.2% of the population) and 1040 deaths (5.2% of cases) as of 18 minutes ago. 149346 tests were performed (13.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Ohio for time series data. | 08:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:00 UTC: Moscow traffic before and after the Covid-19 outbreak – in pictures: As Russia continues to tackle its Covid-19 outbreak, photographs show the contrasting traffic levels in the capital before and after lockdown measures were introduced → https://is.gd/LAZB6S | 08:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:10 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 3.5 million, Trump predicts a vaccine by end of 2020 → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 08:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:15 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: 15th death reported at Newmarch House aged care home – latest updates: Nineteen people test positive at Victorian meat processing plant; Westpac reports 70% drop in cash profits; and Warragamba public school in Sydney closes after a student diagnosed with Covid-19. Follow all the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 08:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:33 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year as global cases top 3.5m: President’s pandemic taskforce said vaccine would take 18 months; Brazil passes 100,000 cases; New Zealand records no new cases for first time. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 08:35 |
| achelois | By the end of May USA might be close to 110,000 deaths as many Americans as died in WW1. | 08:37 |
| achelois | :( | 08:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:43 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: 15th death reported at Newmarch House aged care home – latest updates: NSW transport minister Andrew Constance to contest Eden-Monaro byelection against Labor’s Kristy McBain; 19 people test positive at Victorian meat processing plant; and Westpac reports 70% drop in cash [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 08:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:58 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: draft rules on post-lockdown workplaces leaked → https://is.gd/t2cxjT | 09:10 |
| ubLXI | The Atlantic, April 29, "Why the Coronavirus Is So Confusing", ~6700 words; a good first stab at history of the pandemic blended into state of play overview: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/pandemic-confusing-uncertainty/610819/ | 09:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:15 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: 15th death reported at Newmarch House aged care home – latest updates: NSW transport minister Andrew Constance expected to contest Eden-Monaro byelection against Labor’s Kristy McBain; 19 people test positive at Victorian meat processing plant; and Westpac reports 70% drop in cash [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 09:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 3.5 million, Trump predicts a vaccine by end of 2020 → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 09:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2028 cases (now 3.6 million), +61 deaths (now 248435) since 4 hours ago — Sindh, Pakistan: +1770 cases (now 7465) since 5 hours ago — Punjab, Pakistan: +1463 cases (now 7524) since 5 hours ago | 09:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:33 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: draft rules on post-lockdown workplaces leaked → https://is.gd/t2cxjT | 09:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:35 UTC: (news): Pharma giants granted coronavirus approvals but doubts remain on manufacturing a global vaccine → https://is.gd/RWW8Ze | 09:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:49 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: draft rules on post-lockdown workplaces leaked → https://is.gd/t2cxjT | 09:59 |
| rajrajraj | can someone unban me from #coronavirus | 10:00 |
| mefistofeles | rajrajraj: you mean ##coronavirus? | 10:01 |
| rajrajraj | mefistofeles: yes | 10:02 |
| mefistofeles | rajrajraj: not sure how many ops from that channel are here, but I guess some of them (I think LjL is one of them, not sure) | 10:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:51 UTC: A coronavirus vaccine cannot be reasonably expected until the end of 2021, professor says: That timeline would be a "very reasonable" expectation because of the necessary Phase 2 and 3 trials of any vaccine to guarantee both safety and efficacy, according to Dale Fisher, chair of the World Health Organization (WHO) [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bVmamx | 10:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +10655 cases (now 3.6 million), +77 deaths (now 248512) since 40 minutes ago — Russia: +10581 cases (now 145268), +76 deaths (now 1356) since a day ago — Oman: +69 cases (now 2637) since a day ago | 10:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:05 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: draft rules on post-lockdown workplaces leaked → https://is.gd/t2cxjT | 10:13 |
| truthr | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ycw-nBp94 | 10:21 |
| mefistofeles | %t | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.youtube.com: The Truth about Swedens Anti-Lockdown Strategy - YouTube | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:15 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year as global cases top 3.5m → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 10:27 |
| truthr | %t | 10:32 |
| Brainstorm | truthr: From is.gd: Coronavirus live news: Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year as global cases top 3.5m | World news | The Guardian | 10:32 |
| truthr | woohoo | 10:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:27 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 3.5 million, Trump predicts a vaccine by end of 2020 → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 10:34 |
| mefistofeles | truthr: that's still to be seen, but hoprefully | 10:37 |
| truthr | mefistofeles: indeed | 10:38 |
| truthr | plus the virus mutates | 10:38 |
| truthr | can't cure the flu | 10:38 |
| mefistofeles | truthr: yes, but so far it's not mutating that fast | 10:38 |
| truthr | mefistofeles: excellent | 10:38 |
| mefistofeles | specially compared with influenza | 10:38 |
| truthr | mefistofeles: is it mutating less fast than the flu | 10:38 |
| mefistofeles | yes | 10:38 |
| truthr | awesome | 10:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:34 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK workplace rules after lockdown may include extensive hygiene measures → https://is.gd/IiOJO2 | 10:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:00 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia sees over 10,000 new cases; Euro zone manufacturing slumps in April → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:11 UTC: Coronavirus Australia latest: at a glance: A summary of the major developments in the coronavirus outbreak across Australia → https://is.gd/K3QMkr | 11:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3072 cases (now 3.6 million), +132 deaths (now 248644) since an hour ago — Belarus: +784 cases (now 17489) since 22 hours ago — Bangladesh: +688 cases (now 10143) since 22 hours ago | 11:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia sees over 10,000 new cases; Euro zone manufacturing slumps in April → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 11:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:24 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: 15th death reported at Newmarch House aged care home – latest updates: NSW transport minister Andrew Constance expected to nominate for Eden-Monaro byelection; 19 people test positive at Victorian meat processing plant; and Westpac reports 70% drop in cash profit. Follow all the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 11:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia sees over 10,000 new cases; Euro zone manufacturing slumps in April → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 11:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:52 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: government releases Covidsafe app legislation – latest updates: 15th death reported at Newmarch House aged care home; Andrew Constance expected to nominate for Eden-Monaro byelection; and 19 people test positive at Victorian meat processing plant. Follow all the latest news, live → https://is.gd/ARBsgg | 12:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:05 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m: Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year; Brazil passes 100,000 cases; New Zealand records no new cases for first time → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 12:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ at 10:31 UTC: Monitoring respiratory infections in covid-19 epidemics: Key messagesCompartmental modelling studies on covid-19 should not be relied on as the only approach for monitoring the pandemic or assessing the effectiveness of infection control measuresSimple and... → https://is.gd/zCDCvp | 12:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:42 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m: Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year; Brazil passes 100,000 cases; New Zealand records no new cases for first time → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 12:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:05 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Russia sees over 10,000 new cases; Euro zone manufacturing slumps in April → https://is.gd/4ZzwN6 | 13:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2246 cases (now 3.6 million), +86 deaths (now 248730) since 2 hours ago — Iran: +1223 cases (now 98647), +74 deaths (now 6277) since a day ago — US: +405 cases (now 1.2 million) since 3 hours ago | 13:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:23 UTC: (news): Pharma giants granted coronavirus approvals but doubts remain on manufacturing a global vaccine → https://is.gd/RWW8Ze | 13:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:30 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m: Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year; Brazil passes 100,000 cases; New Zealand records no new cases for first time → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 13:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Moscow City, Russia: +5795 cases (now 74401) since 9 hours ago — World: +935 cases (now 3.6 million) since 21 minutes ago — Qatar: +640 cases (now 16191) since 23 hours ago | 13:38 |
| adventurer | https://twitter.com/QandA/status/1257273892327940102?s=20 | 13:43 |
| oriba | LjL: FYI: https://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2020/contact-tracing-requirements | 13:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:34 UTC: (news): Warren Buffett gave airlines another go. Coronavirus was a problem he couldn't stomach → https://is.gd/lRKyV8 | 13:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:44 UTC: HS2 protesters block sites and call for money to go to NHS: HS2 Rebellion says money spent on construction should instead be used for medical supplies during coronavirus crisis → https://is.gd/e13x6M | 13:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:51 UTC: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Monday: Dow futures drop Monday as U.S.-China tensions escalate over the coronavirus. Airline stocks fell after Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway sold all its stakes in United, American, Southwest and Delta. → https://is.gd/USICEp | 13:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:13 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Roche to invest in German testing site, CEO says recovered patients 'very likely' immune → https://is.gd/eYQygZ | 14:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:50 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Nightingale hospital in London put 'on standby' after running out of patients, No 10 says → https://is.gd/t2cxjT | 14:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:01 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Roche to invest in German testing site, CEO says recovered patients 'very likely' immune → https://is.gd/eYQygZ | 15:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3297 cases (now 3.6 million), +163 deaths (now 248907) since an hour ago — Saudi Arabia: +1645 cases (now 28656) since a day ago — Stockholm, Sweden: +503 cases (now 8536), +57 deaths (now 1463) since 11 hours ago | 15:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:19 UTC: (news): Roche CEO says it is 'very likely' people develop immunity after recovering from coronavirus → https://is.gd/6jg9zu | 15:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Roche to invest in German testing site, CEO says recovered patients 'very likely' immune → https://is.gd/eYQygZ | 15:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2131 cases (now 3.6 million), +193 deaths (now 249100) since 39 minutes ago — Spain: +1179 cases (now 248301), +164 deaths (now 25428) since 22 hours ago — Virginia, US: +821 cases (now 19492) since 23 hours ago | 15:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 13:45 UTC: Covid2019: Takuo Aoyagi, whose pulse oximeter helps hospitals fight coronavirus, dies at 84 - The Washington Post → https://is.gd/J8AZx9 | 15:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:50 UTC: Coronavirus live news: cases in Germany likely to be 10 times higher than official count, say researchers: Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m; Trump claims vaccine will be found by end of year; Brazil passes 100,000 cases; New Zealand records no new cases for first time → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 15:57 |
| mefistofeles | "About 1.8 million people living in Germany must have been infected, more than 10 times the number of about 160,000 confirmed cases so far," | 16:03 |
| mefistofeles | interesting, should be even larger for those with less testing | 16:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:04 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Roche to invest in German testing site, CEO says recovered patients 'very likely' immune → https://is.gd/eYQygZ | 16:11 |
| LjL | mefistofeles: but... This is testing only children? Or is Guardian confusing me as usual with articles mismatching headlines | 16:14 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: no, where did you get the children from? | 16:15 |
| mefistofeles | "To arrive at their estimate, the researchers put the town’s number of known deaths from Covid-19 relative to the larger estimate of local people with a prior infection – as indicated by antibody blood test readings – and applied the rate of 0.37% to country-wide deaths. " | 16:16 |
| mefistofeles | "They also found that about one in five of those infected showed no symptoms." | 16:19 |
| mefistofeles | this is something that still puzzles me... some talk about a much lower asymptomatic ratio. Where you have to differentiate into asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic... which most media do not | 16:20 |
| LjL | mefistofeles: I don't know I don't understand how Guardian's live feed thing works... I click, it shows me the relevant headline, but now it's showing another thing entirely below | 16:21 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: yes, it sucks... check to the left | 16:22 |
| mefistofeles | I commonly have to use the find tool to actually find something | 16:22 |
| LjL | mefistofeles: anyway yeah I talk about a lower asymptomatic ratio... And I do that based on the Vo study, which looked well executed to me, and with PCR, not antibodies... Do we know which antibody tests were used this time? | 16:23 |
| mefistofeles | so you may look for Heinsberg | 16:23 |
| LjL | mefistofeles: I have to be using the phone right now so it's extra confusing | 16:23 |
| mefistofeles | ah right, phone never works for anything serious | 16:23 |
| mefistofeles | :P | 16:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2048 cases (now 3.6 million), +70 deaths (now 249170) since 53 minutes ago — US: +2004 cases (now 1.2 million), +69 deaths (now 68702) since 53 minutes ago — Maryland, US: +946 cases (now 26408) since a day ago | 16:24 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: PCR tests can also be misleading, not sure they are necessarily better | 16:24 |
| LjL | mefistofeles: they may have false negatives but false positives are much less likely... And as you probably know almost the entire town was PCR tested *twice* or even I think three times | 16:25 |
| LjL | Over the course of 14 days | 16:25 |
| LjL | How can that fail to give a good approximation of asymptomatic? | 16:26 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: because many of them can be pre-symtpmatic | 16:30 |
| mefistofeles | not sure if they considered that | 16:30 |
| LjL | mefistofeles: and remain so for more than 14 days? | 16:30 |
| mefistofeles | no | 16:30 |
| LjL | Well, they considered that, then | 16:31 |
| LjL | Read the study, it's in the links | 16:31 |
| LjL | Search for Vo | 16:31 |
| LjL | The only important thing I find missing from it is a followup on mortality | 16:31 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: what's Vo? | 16:32 |
| LjL | A town in Veneto that was one of early clusters in Italy, and which was consequently quarantined completelt | 16:32 |
| LjL | Well before the national lockdown | 16:32 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, what's interesting about the Heinsberg study, is that it is one of the localities with worst death rate in Germany | 16:34 |
| LjL | No one enters no one exits, and people were tested at the start, at the end, and I think during | 16:34 |
| LjL | Don't know how it can get any more ideal | 16:34 |
| LjL | It's the random sample everyone wanted... Except not with antibody tests, but given most of the info that is coming out of antibody tests is on newspapers without the actuals studies being out, I think I like that one better (this may not be true of the German study though) | 16:35 |
| LjL | It also has an interesting sample about children although it ends up being small | 16:36 |
| LjL | But they had 13 children living with positives and none got infected, which they say is unlikely given the rate of infection they found in adults | 16:36 |
| mefistofeles | oh hell, that pdf is really hard to copy/paste from | 16:37 |
| mefistofeles | but they say they assumed the alternating results (positive, negative and then positive again) as false negatives, which is not entirely correct, imho. Specially considering the cases from Korea | 16:38 |
| mefistofeles | where you can still test positive for the virus even after recovery, that's why PCR testing is not that good for recovering | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:37 UTC: /u/slakmehl: How Coronavirus Mutates and Spreads - The New York Times → https://is.gd/H9beFL | 16:40 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, result. one. | 16:40 |
| LjL | they had just one like that | 16:40 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: the media got confused by the fact that not everyone develops antibodies, confusing it with lack of accuracy... but antibody tests are pretty accurate, I'd say as much as PCR tests. | 16:43 |
| mefistofeles | the good thing is that with antibody tests we have estimates on how many actually don't express antibody tests or how long it takes for them | 16:43 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, some antibody tests are. i definitely do not believe that the swath of antibody tests that have been produced are accurate | 16:43 |
| mefistofeles | with PCR is not that easy, the virus can stay in the body for many days/weeks without actually being active | 16:44 |
| LjL | and it's not "the media", in the press conference i post every day, they've repeatedly said they aren't doing antibody samples yet because they are still selecting tests meeting their thresholds of accuracy | 16:44 |
| LjL | and there are some antibody tests offered to the public where it's actually unknown whether they react to just SARS-COV-2 or to *any* coronavirus | 16:44 |
| LjL | and in studies like the NY one, we just haven't graced with knowledge of which antibody tests are being used, or their specificity/sensitivity, since the figure was boasted in newspaper but the study isn't out | 16:45 |
| mefistofeles | well, but that's different, that'sprobably because Italy doesn't have the correct reagents | 16:45 |
| mefistofeles | but it would be silly to assume that's the case for others, specially when there are so many antibody tests going on now | 16:45 |
| mefistofeles | just as with testing in the USE, fucked up reagents screwed testing there | 16:46 |
| mefistofeles | probably something similar to Italy, with antibodies | 16:46 |
| mefistofeles | *USA | 16:46 |
| mefistofeles | on the other hand, they don't really inform if what they call asymptomatic int he first survey correspond to asymptomatic in the second survey, making it harder to check whether they really were asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic | 16:47 |
| LjL | i like how you make assumptions about Italy just at random to make your point | 16:47 |
| mefistofeles | they just said (afaics) that the proportion was similar for both surveys | 16:47 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: I said it could be the case, I'm not assuming it was | 16:49 |
| LjL | no you said "that's probably" | 16:49 |
| LjL | but Italy says it isn't | 16:49 |
| LjL | which is what i'm saying | 16:49 |
| LjL | so there is that | 16:49 |
| mefistofeles | ok, could be the case, change it to that | 16:49 |
| LjL | okay so what's the specificity and sensitivity of the antibody tests used in this study in Germany | 16:50 |
| mefistofeles | also, assuming others are doing all these massive antibodies tests knowingly they are not accurate is less likely | 16:50 |
| LjL | no, it's not | 16:50 |
| LjL | especially if they are being done with the political desire of showing "tons of people are immune and mortality is so low" in order to have a justification for re-opening | 16:51 |
| mefistofeles | they know they are pretty accurate and for measuring recoveries is better, because they don't even have to consider the asymptomatic to pre-symptomatic, since both of them are in the same "showing-antibodies" group | 16:51 |
| LjL | last i checked a study needed to be a study to be discussed scientifically, not a figure on the NYT | 16:51 |
| genera | but you should chek Hydrochloroquine! its like magic! | 16:52 |
| genera | on another note, it might be that the infectioins in children are so light becausse they all have OC43 antibodies | 16:53 |
| mefistofeles | we have linked a couple (maybe more) of the results from antibodies tests here, a couple from china and one from NY, no reason to believe German ones are any different | 16:53 |
| mefistofeles | those show high accuracy | 16:53 |
| mefistofeles | I don'thave the numbers right now, of course, why would I | 16:53 |
| LjL | because you're usually readiest to go "source?" about anything, so i thought you had a higher bar than "this is from a newspaper but why would it use different antibodies from studies done elsewhere? if there's an Italian study suggesting other figures it's probably just Italy doing things wrong" | 16:55 |
| genera | the Spanish flu was plagued by war-time censors. it might turn out we have something similar at ncov2019 too | 16:56 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: heh sure | 16:56 |
| LjL | heh | 16:56 |
| mefistofeles | funny how I can explain things without blaming you personally, LjL , but you can't without blaming me personally ;) | 16:58 |
| LjL | you're right | 16:58 |
| LjL | fuck you, you're pretty much an insufferable prick most of the time, and now you're passive-aggressively being ad hominem whereas i am simply being so because you're discounting scientific evidence i gave you because, essentially, you don't trust it as coming from Italy, while you trust evidence that's not scientific but published on a newspaper simply because hey, NYC can't possibly have used worse tests than Germany, while would it | 16:59 |
| LjL | and this is not an ad hominem but it's still fucking offensive | 17:00 |
| LjL | i'd rather be active aggressive and call out the fact you're an asshole | 17:00 |
| genera | i ll go shoppin | 17:00 |
| mefistofeles | in terms of numbers, from what I recall of both chinese studies, antibodies tests didn't find antibodies for aroun 5% of them, but for ALL of the rest they did, so in that context is a rough 95% accuracy for the timeline | 17:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:57 UTC: (news): Carnival Cruise Line says it will sail again Aug. 1, a week after coronavirus no-sail order due to expire → https://is.gd/FIz0R0 | 17:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:29 UTC: New York continues seeing drop in coronavirus deaths and hospitalizations, Gov. Cuomo says: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said on Monday that the state is now "on the other side of the mountain" as the daily number of hospitalizations, rate of new infections and deaths related to Covid-19 continues to decline. → https://is.gd/GMtqOB | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +4177 cases (now 3.6 million), +304 deaths (now 250136) since 16 minutes ago — United Kingdom: +3985 cases (now 190584), +288 deaths (now 28734) since 23 hours ago — England, United Kingdom: +1485 cases (now 126346), +257 deaths (now 25785) since 14 hours ago | 18:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:37 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Roche to invest in German testing site, CEO says recovered patients 'very likely' immune → https://is.gd/eYQygZ | 18:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3405 cases (now 3.6 million) since 17 minutes ago — Ecuador: +2343 cases (now 31881) since a day ago — US: +441 cases (now 1.2 million) since 17 minutes ago | 18:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:46 UTC: FDA tightens rules on coronavirus antibody tests after accuracy concerns: The Food and Drug Administration on Monday tightened rules for antibody tests, ordering manufacturers to submit emergency use authorization forms and data proving the tests work within 10 days or face possible removal. → https://is.gd/m1YZZO | 18:53 |
| rajrajraj | Stupid drunk race https://www.news18.com/amp/news/buzz/karnataka-residents-burst-firecrackers-to-celebrate-the-reopening-of-liquor-shops-2604639.html | 18:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:58 UTC: Japan sending Fujifilm's flu drug favipiravir to over 40 countries for Covid-19 trials: FujiFilm's flu drug favipiravir (Avigan) has shown to be effective against Covid-19, and Japan is now shipping it to 43 countries for clinical trials. → https://is.gd/Y76Yjr | 19:01 |
| JamGobbar | wow | 19:01 |
| JamGobbar | i got a pic of actual covid19 phlem | 19:01 |
| Mr_Pink | RIP JamGobbar | 19:01 |
| JamGobbar | not mine | 19:02 |
| JamGobbar | https://i.imgur.com/Oo59msZ.jpg | 19:02 |
| JamGobbar | but you've been warned | 19:02 |
| Mr_Pink | I ain't looking at it | 19:02 |
| Mr_Pink | I'm not gonna catch the 'rona | 19:02 |
| JamGobbar | Mr_Pink: its even got your coloration | 19:02 |
| Mr_Pink | def not clicking that *gags* lmao | 19:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3034 cases (now 3.6 million) since 16 minutes ago — US: +3032 cases (now 1.2 million) since 16 minutes ago — New York, US: +2940 cases (now 326823) since 46 minutes ago | 19:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:58 UTC: Coronavirus live news: world leaders pledge $8bn to fight pandemic; Italy death toll 'far higher than reported': French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December; cases in Germany likely to be 10 times higher than official count, say researchers; Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 19:08 |
| rajrajraj | Real or fake | 19:12 |
| rajrajraj | https://youtu.be/crkjN0E283c | 19:12 |
| sneep | %title | 19:13 |
| Brainstorm | sneep: From youtu.be: Africa's miracle cure for COVID-19 | Drink called COVID-ORGANICS - YouTube | 19:13 |
| sneep | Probably fake | 19:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:10 UTC: (news): Trump administration projects about 3,000 coronavirus deaths per day by June, New York Times says → https://is.gd/1CiirG | 19:15 |
| LjL | rajrajraj, do you really have to ask? it's obvious pseudoscience even without going beyond the title | 19:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:15 UTC: New York on 'other side of the mountain' as coronavirus deaths and hospitalizations fall, Cuomo says: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said on Monday that the state is now "on the other side of the mountain" as the daily number of hospitalizations, rate of new infections and deaths related to Covid-19 continues to decline. → https://is.gd/GMtqOB | 19:22 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: its a pandemic any miracle can happen i believe | 19:23 |
| genera | is that from Madagaskar? | 19:24 |
| LjL | rajrajraj, no, pandemics don't make miracles any more likely | 19:24 |
| rajrajraj | genera: i dont know | 19:25 |
| rajrajraj | Probably a marketing term | 19:25 |
| rajrajraj | Since murica made Madagascar popular | 19:26 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: what do you think is going to happen | 19:27 |
| rajrajraj | In the end | 19:27 |
| LjL | a vaccine | 19:27 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: boring :( | 19:28 |
| LjL | ... | 19:28 |
| rajrajraj | But helpful | 19:28 |
| genera | a defective vax! better? | 19:28 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: how long until everyone gets it | 19:28 |
| rajrajraj | genera: whats that | 19:29 |
| LjL | unknown | 19:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:23 UTC: (news): Trump administration projects about 3,000 coronavirus deaths per day by June, New York Times says → https://is.gd/1CiirG | 19:29 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: any prediction? | 19:29 |
| LjL | i have no crystal ball, it depends on the R, and the R depends on what people in various countries do | 19:29 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: the r in raj? | 19:30 |
| rajrajraj | :p | 19:30 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: in india people are panicking | 19:31 |
| rajrajraj | Does that count | 19:31 |
| LjL | yeah, panic will probably make the R higher | 19:31 |
| LjL | fear is good, fear makes you stay at home | 19:31 |
| LjL | panic makes you hoarde supermarkets and spread the disease | 19:31 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: fear makes us die from unemployment | 19:31 |
| LjL | this is also a concern, but COVID kills too | 19:32 |
| rajrajraj | Fear makes us stay where no food | 19:32 |
| rajrajraj | Fear can cause depression | 19:32 |
| LjL | while panic is all well and good? | 19:32 |
| rajrajraj | Let me show u this | 19:32 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: https://youtu.be/_A2hAwSkJMw | 19:34 |
| rajrajraj | The person had to spend his life savings | 19:34 |
| rajrajraj | Just to reach home | 19:34 |
| rajrajraj | Be with family | 19:34 |
| rajrajraj | In tough times | 19:34 |
| LjL | rajrajraj, err, i don't speak hindi | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +4738 cases (now 3.6 million), +122 deaths (now 250308) since 30 minutes ago — US: +2887 cases (now 1.2 million), +53 deaths (now 69064) since 30 minutes ago — New Jersey, US: +1734 cases (now 129172) since 23 hours ago | 19:35 |
| LjL | and yes the lockdown in india could probably have implemented in slightly more humane ways | 19:35 |
| LjL | thank Modi and your police | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:33 UTC: (news): Coronavirus deaths projected to hit 3,000 per day by June, internal Trump administration analysis says → https://is.gd/1CiirG | 19:36 |
| tasty | is the hysteria still being whipped up? | 19:37 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: https://youtu.be/B_NFWeGV7ek | 19:38 |
| LjL | tasty, i don't even understand the question | 19:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:36 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Jamie Dupree su Twitter: "White House response to NY Times posting an internal CDC estimate of future Coronavirus cases/deaths… " → https://is.gd/ce9hGA | 19:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 17:43 UTC: Coronavirus live news: world leaders pledge $8bn to fight pandemic; Italy death toll 'far higher than reported': French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December; cases in Germany likely to be 10 times higher than official count, say researchers; Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 19:50 |
| pyna | not a lot of optimism in this one https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/02/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-prediction-laurie-garrett.html | 19:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2796 cases (now 3.6 million), +193 deaths (now 250501) since 17 minutes ago — India: +2034 cases (now 44870), +57 deaths (now 1452) since 4 hours ago — Canada: +758 cases (now 60616), +75 deaths (now 3842) since an hour ago | 19:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:01 UTC: WHO says it will engage US to make remdesivir coronavirus treatment more widely available: WHO welcomes the recent data from a U.S. government-run clinical trial showing the drug appeared to be effective in reducing recovery times for Covid-19 patients, one official says. → https://is.gd/0b9Mp0 | 20:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2029 cases (now 3.6 million), +66 deaths (now 250567) since 18 minutes ago — Brazil: +893 cases (now 102719), +55 deaths (now 7106) since 15 hours ago — United Arab Emirates: +567 cases (now 14730) since a day ago | 20:05 |
| pyna | "Referring to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta and its analogues abroad, she told me: “I’ve heard from every C.D.C. in the world — the European C.D.C., the African C.D.C., China C.D.C. — and they say, ‘Normally our first call is to Atlanta, but we ain’t hearing back.’ There’s nothing going on down there. They’ve gutted that place. They’ve gagged that place. I can’t get calls returned anymore. Nobody down ... | 20:08 |
| pyna | ... there is feeling like it’s safe to talk. Have you even seen anything important and vital coming out of the C.D.C.?”' | 20:08 |
| Butterfly^ | https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/05/04/third-russian-doctor-falls-from-hospital-window-after-coronavirus-complaint-a70176 Title: Third Russian Doctor Falls From Hospital Window After Coronavirus Complaint - The Moscow Times | 20:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:06 UTC: FDA tightens rules on coronavirus antibody tests after accuracy concerns: The Food and Drug Administration on Monday tightened rules for antibody tests, ordering manufacturers to submit emergency use authorization forms and data proving the tests work within 10 days or face possible removal. → https://is.gd/m1YZZO | 20:11 |
| pyna | trump must be so jelly of those "fake news" laws that his boss already has working | 20:13 |
| JamGobbar | https://i.imgur.com/v1CZHo9.jpg <<=--- meanwhile in NYC | 20:14 |
| withorwithout | https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6490/455 Hapy hypoxia \o/ | 20:15 |
| withorwithout | JamGobbar, that's nice | 20:16 |
| JamGobbar | nice and contageous! | 20:18 |
| JamGobbar | they're not following social distancing guidelines of NY state or NYC | 20:18 |
| JamGobbar | flagrant disregaurd for public health & safety! | 20:19 |
| withorwithout | they could be flatmates | 20:20 |
| JamGobbar | seems like kind of a long shot | 20:20 |
| JamGobbar | that many couples and then additional singles | 20:20 |
| JamGobbar | unless they're in some sort of poly or chain marriage | 20:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:10 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump administration reportedly expects daily death toll to double in June: Trump administration privately predicts major increase Supreme court livestreams arguments for first time in history US cases at 1,157,875 according to Johns Hopkins data McConnell could yet pay price for ‘tone deaf’ response → https://is.gd/uCbxeE | 20:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica at 18:18 UTC: Science: Antivaxxers spearhead protests against lockdown orders, demand “freedom” → https://is.gd/jmPj4P | 20:32 |
| sookie | Right, only "antivaxxers" want to end the lockdowns. | 20:33 |
| tinwhiskers | There's a difference between wanting to see the lockdowns end and wanting them to end right now regardless of evidence, based mostly on the principle of freedom being eroded. Most people want the lockdowns to end, but only when appropriate. | 20:36 |
| tinwhiskers | This is about the lockdown protestors, not people merely wanting the lockdowns to end | 20:37 |
| pyna | well, they've got a lot of experience with not being into civic duty | 20:37 |
| tinwhiskers | And it's no surprise that these are the same anti-vaxxer, truther, fox-watching ignorant fools | 20:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus deaths projected to hit 3,000 per day by June, internal Trump administration analysis says → https://is.gd/1CiirG | 20:39 |
| sookie | it's not surprising because of confirmation bias | 20:40 |
| sookie | they should learn civic duty from antifa | 20:44 |
| ubLXI | tinwhiskers: looking at US and UK on offloop, why is it the doubling time plots have such similar form, from 16th April, do you think? | 20:46 |
| pyna | its amazing that folks have managed to get to a place where they can both be very nationalist and also have no sense of civic duty whatsoever | 20:47 |
| sookie | it's amazing that folks have managed to get to a place where they can hate their country and a large part of its population and also demand all kinds of free stuff and benefits from it. | 20:49 |
| tinwhiskers | ubLXI: that's pretty amazingly similar! A lot of coincidence but also they both reflect the same weekly reporting patterns so share the same peaks and dips. | 20:51 |
| pyna | also where it's two sides and both sides exactly think the other side is doing that | 20:51 |
| tinwhiskers | ubLXI: Saturdays and Sundays have consistently lower reporting then it builds to a peak on Wednesday and dies down again. I suspect it's backlogged work that is being caught up on by Wednesday | 20:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:50 UTC: WHO says it will engage US to make remdesivir coronavirus treatment more widely available: WHO welcomes the recent data from a U.S. government-run clinical trial showing the drug appeared to be effective in reducing recovery times for Covid-19 patients, one official says. → https://is.gd/0b9Mp0 | 20:53 |
| ubLXI | it's uncanny | 20:54 |
| tinwhiskers | It sure is | 20:54 |
| BigJohnsson | If I had covid-19 am i safe now? Can i go to bar by myself | 20:55 |
| ecks | no | 20:56 |
| BigJohnsson | ecks why not :P | 20:56 |
| ecks | alcohol kills | 20:56 |
| pyna | uhoh according to the news scientist have just measured coughs traveling 12 feet, which is longer than 6 feet | 20:56 |
| ubLXI | scientists demonstrate that 12 feet is more than 6 feet, check | 20:58 |
| ubLXI | :p | 20:58 |
| ubLXI | how diffuse is the cough cloud at 12 feet, though? | 20:58 |
| pyna | yeah the clear move here is to redefine 12 as 6, so people will stay the right amount apart, and also helping small business by making a dozen donuts cost them half as much to sell you | 20:59 |
| sookie | breaking: human with very good FEV who tries really hard to cough a lot can exceed 6 feet | 20:59 |
| sookie | and this is not news. there's quite a bit of study of coughing and sneezing air flow. in the context of turbulent air flow. | 21:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:55 UTC: (news): Coronavirus deaths projected to hit 3,000 per day by June, internal Trump administration analysis says → https://is.gd/1CiirG | 21:00 |
| pyna | like how if your employer cuts pay by 50% during the plague, and then a 50% raise when it's done. saves the company 25% going forward. | 21:01 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: 54 percent of Americans want to work remote regularly after coronavirus pandemic ends, new poll shows (10036 votes) | https://redd.it/gdcfql | 21:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2071 cases (now 3.6 million), +369 deaths (now 250936) since an hour ago — France: +769 cases (now 169462), +306 deaths (now 25201) since a day ago — US: +666 cases (now 1.2 million) since an hour ago | 21:06 |
| pyna | hmm a dave eggers article about what we should _actually_ be doing/thinking in plague times. i wonder how this will jibe with my theory that dave eggers will always be wrong in some crucial way | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:06 UTC: FDA tightens rules on coronavirus antibody tests after accuracy concerns: The Food and Drug Administration on Monday tightened rules for antibody tests, ordering manufacturers to submit emergency use authorization forms and data proving the tests work within 10 days or face possible removal. → https://is.gd/m1YZZO | 21:14 |
| pyna | oh ok it's a mcsweeneys and i have to admit, not bad for a mcsweeney https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/03/opinion/dave-eggers-coronavirus-questions.html | 21:14 |
| pyna | aaand northeast states have started a coalition for coodinating medical supplies, almost as if there would be some benefit to having all the states cooperate on certain things | 21:19 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2878 cases (now 3.6 million), +139 deaths (now 251075) since 23 minutes ago — India: +1567 cases (now 46437), +114 deaths (now 1566) since an hour ago — US: +1309 cases (now 1.2 million) since 23 minutes ago | 21:21 |
| genera | so what is Trump, the leader of the task force, predicting now? 3000 per day but only in secret? | 21:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:21 UTC: WHO says it will engage US to make remdesivir coronavirus treatment more widely available: WHO welcomes the recent data from a U.S. government-run clinical trial showing the drug appeared to be effective in reducing recovery times for Covid-19 patients, one official says. → https://is.gd/0b9Mp0 | 21:28 |
| genera | ah theguardian say the White House say it is not their data | 21:35 |
| sookie | models suck even this fema one | 21:37 |
| sookie | just look at predicted deaths vs. actual deaths in their model | 21:37 |
| sookie | but it was leaked to the nyt by some backstabber in fema or hhs who doesn't want lockdowns to end | 21:38 |
| sookie | now, as lockdowns begin easing is when you get the "models" that predict the planet is going to explode | 21:39 |
| sookie | i'm sure imperial and ihme are working overtime to create worst-case scenario graphics to scare the crap out of people | 21:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:36 UTC: (news): Coronavirus deaths projected to hit 3,000 per day by June, internal Trump administration analysis says → https://is.gd/1CiirG | 21:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:46 UTC: (news): Kroger expands coronavirus testing for employees with free self-administered kits, drive-thru appointments → https://is.gd/REjQnP | 21:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +4319 cases (now 3.6 million), +113 deaths (now 251188) since 34 minutes ago — US: +2851 cases (now 1.2 million), +52 deaths (now 69220) since 34 minutes ago — Illinois, US: +2341 cases (now 63840) since a day ago | 21:51 |
| disillusion | sookie, deaths have been lowered because of the quarantines, not because the "experts" were wrong in their predictions. Ending the quarantines will cause the cases and deaths to skyrocket, and the hospitals will be overwhelmed. | 21:51 |
| sookie | the models incorporated quarantines | 21:52 |
| sookie | the famous imperial "zomg we're all gonna die" model took into account social distancing | 21:52 |
| disillusion | and note that we're really only in partial quaranine. It's possible for everyone to prepare for 10 days of no electric, and only running water, and to stay inside homes for this 10 days, and the virus may very well be completely eradicated. | 21:52 |
| disillusion | I like this radical idea of doing 10 day, "full" quarantines to eradicate diseases | 21:53 |
| disillusion | one example some radicals have brought up is sexually-transmitted diseases, some of which would be completely eradicated if everyone in the world agreed, for 10 days, to only have sex with their partner or no one at all. | 21:54 |
| sookie | syphillis lasts more than 10 days | 21:54 |
| sookie | so does herpes | 21:54 |
| disillusion | those who come down with the sickness within the 10 days would get help at the hospital, and the government would have info on who've they've contacted around that 10 day period, so it could be contained. | 21:54 |
| sookie | this makes no sense to me. it's like anti-logic | 21:54 |
| bin_bash | that doesnt even make sense | 21:54 |
| disillusion | what matters is knowing who has it. The problem with STD's is that people don't know they have it. | 21:55 |
| ThomCat[m] | TIL HIV and AIDS are only communicable for 10 days | 21:55 |
| disillusion | lol what stupid conclusions | 21:55 |
| sookie | disillusion: how about some supra-national government like the UN forces everyone with herpes to get a HERPES branding on their forehead? | 21:56 |
| disillusion | some STD's this 10 day plan will work with, others it won't work. I can't believe the stupid shit some people come up with. | 21:56 |
| bin_bash | this doesnt make any sense at all | 21:56 |
| bin_bash | for any std | 21:56 |
| sookie | zero sense | 21:56 |
| disillusion | "some STD's won't eradicate with a 10 day quarantine, therefore no STD's will ever" | 21:56 |
| sookie | here's a radical idea | 21:56 |
| bin_bash | wat | 21:56 |
| sookie | diseases are a fact of life. deal with it. | 21:57 |
| disillusion | it's pretty simple to understand: any disease that shows symptoms within 10 days can be eradicated with a world-wide, 10 day quarantine. | 21:57 |
| sookie | maybe one way to prevent zoonotic pandemics is to not fucking study bats in secret labs and to not traffic in live wild animals | 21:57 |
| disillusion | stupid people just shouldn't comment | 21:57 |
| disillusion | let's use "n" as the number of days required for quarantine. "d" is the maximum number of days it takes for the symptoms to show up. | 21:58 |
| disillusion | set n equal to d, and you know how long a quarantine has to be to completely eradicate the disease from humanity | 21:58 |
| sookie | disillusion: what does your algo do with the next pandemic when disease X appears and it has a longer incubation, say 45 days before sympoms | 21:59 |
| sookie | forced global quarantine for 1.5 months? | 21:59 |
| disillusion | I can't believe I have to explain this basic stuff, like I'm a grade school teacher before children | 21:59 |
| sookie | please | 21:59 |
| LjL | disillusion, i don't know if i agree with your concept, but you'd figure "some of which" is a simple expression to understand | 21:59 |
| LjL | i'm not even a native english speaker and i get it fine! how intriguing. | 21:59 |
| disillusion | sookie, well sookie you should have enough life experience by know to be able to conclude for yourself that, well, humanity is fucked unless wiling to do a 45 day quarantine. | 22:00 |
| disillusion | yes LjL this is very interesting. | 22:00 |
| sookie | you can't even get more than 10 countries to agree that the sky is blue | 22:01 |
| LjL | sookie, you're dealing with your disagreement with disillusion by something that i don't know if it's correct to describe as whataboutism, strawman... i am never really good with these terms, however you're saying things that are orthogonal to what he's saying | 22:01 |
| disillusion | I also happen to be interested in the idea of completely shutting off the electric, and all other technologies, for a 2 week period every year in the summer, in order to reduce human energy consumption. But that's another topic ;) | 22:01 |
| sookie | and you want every country in the world to suddenly coordinate an n-day global shutdown? | 22:01 |
| sookie | maybe this makes sense in some far-removed-from-reality setting like a college dorm | 22:02 |
| sookie | but not in real lfe | 22:02 |
| disillusion | sookie, I already said it's a radical idea right now. But I think it will be the norm in the future. I just hope that future is closer rather than farther. I think we should do it about a year after this virus problem is solved. | 22:02 |
| pyna | the only thing there is universal agreement on is "the last season was bad" https://i.redd.it/0dtbi9y2kqw41.jpg | 22:03 |
| sookie | i don't think it'll ever be the norm. it would require inter-country coordination at a scale that is impossible for humans. | 22:03 |
| disillusion | many people become frightened of new ways of doing things, and that's understandable. What I look at is the logic. And if a disease can be wiped out with a 10 day quarantine, it's a decision that policymakers should be smart enough, and "elite" enough (as "republics" are supposed to be), to make that decision for the people | 22:04 |
| LjL | disillusion, sex is a very powerful drive... while many people may definitely spend more than 10 days without having any, i suspect that *requiring* it and having enough compliance for it to be effective would require enforcement involving an awful look of privacy invasion that i am no fan of | 22:04 |
| disillusion | LjL, that's why I said couples need to stay loyal for 10 days ;) | 22:05 |
| sookie | disillusion: logic isn't the right framework, because eradication isn't necessarily the goal. | 22:05 |
| disillusion | LjL, if one member of a couple shows symptoms in the 10 day period, it can be contained | 22:05 |
| disillusion | sookie, this is simple. Eradication is the goal. | 22:05 |
| sookie | if i told you there's a new disease that the only effect is that 0.000001% of people develop a rash on their elbow and incubation is 14 days. then surely we wouldn't kill the economies of most poor countries by shutting down 2 weeks. | 22:06 |
| sookie | so it's a matter of costs vs. benefits | 22:06 |
| sookie | not logic | 22:06 |
| LjL | sookie, assuming no unacceptable sacrifices (definition of acceptability may of course vary), i don't see why eradication wouldn't be the goal | 22:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3563 cases (now 3.6 million), +268 deaths (now 251456) since 23 minutes ago — Brazil: +2503 cases (now 105222), +182 deaths (now 7288) since 2 hours ago — US: +1060 cases (now 1.2 million), +86 deaths (now 69306) since 23 minutes ago | 22:06 |
| LjL | sookie, uhm i thought he was saying people should not have sex for 10 days, not that you should shut down economies | 22:07 |
| sookie | LjL: we don't shut down life to eradicate the common cold | 22:07 |
| disillusion | let's also keep in mind that we can have covid-19 contained if we have say a 14 day, "full" quarantine, in which every household has 14 days worth of food and supplies. We don't need to shut down the world for 6 months. | 22:07 |
| LjL | to be fair you *brought* him elsewhere | 22:07 |
| LjL | but that was you | 22:07 |
| sookie | LjL: the sex thing was in a discussion about what to do about covid | 22:07 |
| disillusion | I think some people have argued that only 10 days is required to contain covid-19, that's how this whole idea got out there. | 22:07 |
| LjL | disillusion, i think some people are most definitely wrong, though | 22:08 |
| sookie | so i disagree eradication is always a goal. | 22:08 |
| sookie | i would say some maximization of social welfare is the goal | 22:08 |
| disillusion | the problem is, the people in power can't seem to figure out how to get society to stock up on 10 days worth of food. An absurdity, I know, but right now capitalists dominate and they don't understand the universe unless everyone's "productive" from sunrise to sunset. | 22:08 |
| LjL | disillusion, how is that "the" problem, when the incubation time alone of this disease is often longer than 10 days, sometimes much longer? what about the fact families of multiple people often live together? | 22:09 |
| LjL | 10 days won't eradicate COVID, that's patently absurd | 22:09 |
| sookie | and how to maximize social welfare depends greatly on what functional form you give your welfare. the weights you assign to different aspects. | 22:09 |
| disillusion | LjL, for the STD's, if there's to be a "full" quarantine, I'm thinking the only way to do that is to shut everything down. Me personally, I really like the idea of stocking up on supplies and living "naturally" for 10 days. | 22:10 |
| LjL | it's also patently absurd to me to think of interrupting *all* economic activities, but i suspect you think differently if you'd like a periodic two weeks of no electricity, worldwide | 22:10 |
| disillusion | we would also dramatically reduce energy consumption if the electric is shut off (to keep people in quarantine, even electric workers) | 22:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 20:07 UTC: Coronavirus: How does contact tracing work and is my data safe?: Millions in the UK will soon be asked to download an app that helps to limit coronavirus spreading. → https://is.gd/KGOiZI | 22:10 |
| LjL | yeah well, your idea isn't shared as worthwhile by me, or, i suspect, by some 90% of the population | 22:11 |
| LjL | but sure, it might even technically work for some diseases! | 22:11 |
| disillusion | LjL, I think that when people see the stars for the first time in big cities, this will change everyone's minds. | 22:11 |
| LjL | we've had blackouts before | 22:12 |
| LjL | i think they had their chance | 22:12 |
| disillusion | LjL, did you now that Neil de Grasse Tyson became a physicist after leaving New York City and seeing the stars for the first time in his life? | 22:12 |
| disillusion | people in New York City hardly know what stars look like | 22:12 |
| LjL | disillusion, cool. how many people did *not* leave and become scientists after the NY blackout? | 22:12 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews at 19:36 UTC: worldnews: Amazon VP, Canadian Tim Bray Resigns, Calls Company ‘Chickenshit’ for Firing Protesting Workers → https://is.gd/CFNFCD | 22:13 |
| LjL | Spec, ubLXI ↑ | 22:13 |
| disillusion | LjL, the NYC blackout in the 80's was something different. But I don't know how cloudy it was there, so I have no idea if the people even got to see the stars much. But I'm sure the media would have buried any comments that the city should do it more often. | 22:13 |
| pyna | turning off the power for a few days regularly would kill a lot of old folks in arizona | 22:14 |
| disillusion | LjL, the people follow what the leaders tell them, especially in the United States. If just a a few key Republicans and Democrats held a media event telling the people to have starry nights by shutting off the electric, the American people will obey. | 22:14 |
| LjL | well i'm not american and i wouldn't know, however, there have been such initiatives before in some places i believe | 22:15 |
| LjL | it really doesn't take people turning off *their* electricity, you know, just to shut off public lighting | 22:15 |
| LjL | also if you're going to be like "but i'm sure the media would have..." to every counterexample i give, i may as well stop giving them | 22:16 |
| LjL | some ideas are made to remain unshaken | 22:16 |
| disillusion | LjL, I think the people would accept it, but it takes some promoting. Right now, it's a radical new idea. But I think that's going to change. It has to, because we have to stop using so much energy, and have to stop polluting and putting greenhouse gases in the air. | 22:17 |
| disillusion | this worldwide quarantine has proven that the people like the dramatically reduced polllution | 22:18 |
| LjL | Germany lately has been producing so much clean energy that the price of electricity briefly become negative | 22:18 |
| LjL | i haven't noticed any difference in subjectively perceived pollution, and i live in Milan | 22:18 |
| disillusion | it all comes down on what price the people are willing to pay for clean air and a thriving ecosystem | 22:18 |
| disillusion | and we can eradicate a few other diseases at the same time | 22:19 |
| Tramtrist | ya unless you live in china or 19th century industrial london you might not even notice the reduced polution | 22:19 |
| disillusion | LjL, these complete shutdowns prove just how wasteful people are and how much work we don't have to actually be doing | 22:19 |
| disillusion | https://fourhourworkweek.com/ | 22:20 |
| disillusion | this guys has been claiming for years that people really only need to work 4 hours per week | 22:20 |
| disillusion | yet another idea to test with global shutdowns | 22:21 |
| _abc_ | https://imgur.com/gallery/ea5VUJP related | 22:21 |
| disillusion | https://www.amazon.com/4-Hour-Workweek-Escape-Live-Anywhere/dp/0307465357 | 22:22 |
| Spec | LjL: i saw :) | 22:22 |
| disillusion | "The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich" | 22:22 |
| LjL | Spec, but you will also be entertained by _abc_'s link | 22:22 |
| _abc_ | Is there some place where the results of experimental drug testing appear? The repurposed drugs tried against covid? | 22:22 |
| LjL | _abc_, short answer: "they don't work" | 22:22 |
| _abc_ | For now. | 22:23 |
| LjL | eh | 22:23 |
| LjL | but wait, let me look if i have it in my links | 22:23 |
| Spec | LjL: which? | 22:23 |
| Spec | _abc_: oh, very nice | 22:23 |
| LjL | _abc_, well, not directly, but https://www.biocentury.com/clinical-vaccines-and-therapies says which clinical trial phase they are in, so if you see something higher than I... | 22:24 |
| LjL | (note it needs to be the COVID-specific phase, as they also list the phase for other indications) | 22:25 |
| LjL | but then again, things like Ebastine may just be in phase 4 because it's a no-brainer that they are unlikely to be harmful | 22:26 |
| LjL | _abc_, but also in general, https://clinicaltrials.gov/ has results for trials conducted in the US when they are available | 22:27 |
| LjL | _abc_, also, here's for some elaboration on my unconvinced "eh" about repurposed drugs turning out useful... https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/30/about-remdesivir-and-about-game-changers | 22:29 |
| LjL | (these are links from our friendly topic https://covid19.specops.network/ by the way!) | 22:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:13 UTC: Coronavirus live news: world leaders pledge $8bn to fight pandemic; Italy death toll 'far higher than reported': French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December; cases in Germany likely to be 10 times higher than official count, say researchers; Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 22:32 |
| ubLXI | LjL: can't remember the last time i bought via amazon; must be more than i decade by now | 22:32 |
| LjL | ubLXI, i'd have no idea where to buy a lot of neato things i've bought, or at least not for 10x as much ;( | 22:33 |
| ubLXI | hmm. i don't remember buying anything except books anyway | 22:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica at 20:34 UTC: Policy: US projects 200,000 new COVID-19 cases per day, 3,000 daily deaths by June → https://is.gd/jtcm4L | 22:46 |
| pyna | https://i.imgur.com/s6tViKt.jpg | 22:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Lima, Peru: +7988 cases (now 29842), +125 deaths (now 529) since 19 hours ago — World: +1414 cases (now 3.6 million), +111 deaths (now 251567) since 48 minutes ago — US: +1292 cases (now 1.2 million), +76 deaths (now 69382) since 48 minutes ago | 22:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:50 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump administration reportedly expects daily death toll to double in June: Trump administration privately predicts major increase Supreme court livestreams arguments for first time in history US cases at 1,157,875 according to Johns Hopkins data McConnell could yet pay price for ‘tone deaf’ response → https://is.gd/uCbxeE | 23:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Santiago, Chile: +3903 cases (now 13528) since 19 hours ago — Antofagasta, Chile: +214 cases (now 760) since 19 hours ago — World: +164 cases (now 3.6 million) since 20 minutes ago | 23:06 |
| ubLXI | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Plague_of_Marseille | 23:12 |
| ubLXI | https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/philadelphia-threw-wwi-parade-gave-thousands-onlookers-flu-180970372/ | 23:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:02 UTC: Coronavirus live news: world leaders pledge $8bn to fight pandemic; Italy death toll 'far higher than reported': French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December; cases in Germany likely to be 10 times higher than official count, say researchers; Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 23:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica at 21:13 UTC: Tech: Apple and Google provide first look of COVID-19 tracing in iOS and Android → https://is.gd/Qt6C23 | 23:21 |
| LjL | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/05/apple-and-google-provide-first-look-of-covid-19-tracing-in-ios-and-android/ | 23:28 |
| LjL | Spec, ubLXI: it's good that as that article says, Google and Apple have been bending over backwards to preserve our privacy | 23:28 |
| LjL | "Among the assurances provided is that apps that use the application programming interfaces can only be developed by or for public health authorities" | 23:28 |
| LjL | whew | 23:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:25 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Frydenberg warns of economic shock as Ruby Princess inquiry resumes – latest updates → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 23:28 |
| LjL | now at least i can be sure those pesky free software developers won't get their hands into my data | 23:28 |
| ubLXI | ha | 23:29 |
| ubLXI | just contractors hired by the firms hired by the health authorities | 23:29 |
| LjL | ubLXI, and the API involved are closed source | 23:30 |
| ytlyv9 | goverment tracking people lock downs easy control of the sheep | 23:30 |
| ytlyv9 | troops in the street soon | 23:31 |
| ryouma``` | i think getting americans to obey is a tall order, achievable only rarely. it was successful with the "don't mess with texas" campaign, but that's about it that i remember. | 23:31 |
| ryouma``` | (re the starry skies thing) | 23:31 |
| ryouma``` | and inspiring them is also a tall order | 23:31 |
| _abc_ | Is there a by-state stat for USA? I an not in USA. FL is in dire straits on account of the many retirees? | 23:32 |
| LjL | ytlyv9, if you were less busy saying platitudes, you could have a look at the article, and my comments, and realize that if anything, Google and Apple will have control, not governments | 23:32 |
| ryouma``` | yes there is a site _abc_ | 23:32 |
| LjL | %cases Florida | 23:32 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Florida, US, there are 36897 total cases (0.2% of the population) and 1399 deaths (3.8% of cases) as of 14 minutes ago. 445995 tests were performed (8.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Florida for time series data. | 23:32 |
| LjL | _abc_, ↑ | 23:32 |
| ryouma``` | having said that getting americans to obey in the authoritarian follower sense seems to be pretty straightforward unfortunately | 23:33 |
| _abc_ | tbh, the public data WILL be mined for other purposes than good will open source projects if available. | 23:33 |
| ryouma``` | %cases tx | 23:34 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma```: Sorry, tx not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 23:34 |
| _abc_ | LjL: got it. 8.3% positive suggests the flu is also doing the rounds? Or ar tests random? | 23:34 |
| ryouma``` | %cases texas | 23:34 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma```: In Texas, US, there are 32894 total cases (0.1% of the population) and 908 deaths (2.8% of cases) as of 16 minutes ago. 407398 tests were performed (8.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Texas for time series data. | 23:34 |
| ryouma``` | %cases arizona | 23:34 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma```: In Arizona, US, there are 8919 total cases (0.1% of the population) and 362 deaths (4.1% of cases) as of 16 minutes ago. 85253 tests were performed (10.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Arizona for time series data. | 23:34 |
| LjL | _abc_, testing policies are different in every place, i have no idea | 23:34 |
| _abc_ | Well then it's comparing apples with prunes. | 23:34 |
| ytlyv9 | and google and apple dont share data lol | 23:34 |
| LjL | looks limilar in other US states though | 23:35 |
| LjL | _abc_, too bad we don't have magical data that self-adjust by human factors | 23:35 |
| ytlyv9 | any other jokes | 23:35 |
| _abc_ | In any case it looks like up to 10% are positive for now, no? | 23:35 |
| ryouma``` | some states are doing asically no testing. it is insane. | 23:35 |
| _abc_ | LjL: randomized testing is pre-adjusted. I understand that only people with some symptoms get tested instead? | 23:35 |
| _abc_ | Iow 10% of those tested are covid positive, roughly? | 23:36 |
| LjL | _abc_, randomized testing makes no sense | 23:36 |
| LjL | i mean, it does, but not practical sense | 23:36 |
| _abc_ | LjL: it makes perfect sense when trying to get numbers wrt immunity. | 23:36 |
| LjL | people need to be tested who need treatment | 23:36 |
| _abc_ | Germany is doing that | 23:36 |
| LjL | when you are undertesting, you cannot afford that | 23:36 |
| LjL | yes, Germany is overtesting | 23:36 |
| LjL | the US isn't overtesting, because they are barely testing yet | 23:36 |
| _abc_ | No, specifically random testing to get the numbers into the antibody stat. | 23:36 |
| _abc_ | in .de | 23:36 |
| LjL | _abc_, antibody tests and PCR tests are entirely different things | 23:37 |
| LjL | so which one are we talking about | 23:37 |
| LjL | the bot is obviously talking about PCR for confirmed cases | 23:37 |
| _abc_ | Oh. Is the antibody test not also PCR based? | 23:37 |
| LjL | uh no | 23:37 |
| LjL | i am not aware that you can do that | 23:37 |
| LjL | anyway the technique isn't the issue | 23:38 |
| _abc_ | Iirc it's also some PCR or chromatography tech. | 23:38 |
| LjL | they are testing two fundamentally different thing | 23:38 |
| _abc_ | yes | 23:38 |
| LjL | _abc_, there are dozens of antibody tests on the market, so i'm pretty sure they aren't just "some" of those techs | 23:38 |
| ryouma``` | antibodies don't have genetic sequences afaik; pcr is for amplifying those | 23:38 |
| LjL | anyway, the bot only lists number of tests *for the virus* | 23:39 |
| ryouma``` | so it'd have to be memory b cells or something for htat | 23:39 |
| LjL | there are no centralized data on numbers of antibody tests | 23:39 |
| LjL | and for that matter a lot of the antibody tests are nonsense | 23:39 |
| LjL | it also does not make sense to make a random sampling antibody test until you either have an extremely good test, or a known high prevalence | 23:39 |
| _abc_ | https://imgur.com/gallery/curNQEq so MD managed to get hold of some PPE and hide it? | 23:40 |
| _abc_ | Wow. | 23:40 |
| _abc_ | Looks almost like a Boston tea party. Or is it a PPE party now. | 23:41 |
| _abc_ | Just being sarcastic. | 23:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:36 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Nate Silver su Twitter: "US daily numbers via @COVID19Tracking: Newly reported deaths: Today: 938 Yesterday: 1,158 One week ago (4/27): 1,163 Newly reported cases: T: 21K Y: 26K 4/27: 22K Newly reported tests: T: 232K Y: 239K 4/27: 190K Positive test rate: T: 9% Y: 11% 4/27: 11%" → https://is.gd/BVYMvN | 23:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2002 cases (now 3.6 million), +120 deaths (now 251701) since 54 minutes ago — US: +1666 cases (now 1.2 million), +92 deaths (now 69476) since 54 minutes ago — Connecticut, US: +886 cases (now 30173), +61 deaths (now 2556) since a day ago | 23:52 |
| _abc_ | This borders on insanity. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2010025 | 23:53 |
| _abc_ | Is anyone even considering importing mask making machines? They are quite simple to set up and operate. | 23:53 |
| _abc_ | Several movies of them are on youtube. | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus at 21:41 UTC: Coronavirus: Irish people help raise 1.8 million dollars for Native American tribe badly affected by Covid-19 as payback for a $150 donation by the Choctaw tribe in 1847 during the Irish Potatoe famine → https://is.gd/BbSiC7 | 23:56 |
| MjrTom | What? America doesn't MAKE stuff! We shine shoes, and drives busses and limos, and stuff like that | 23:59 |
| MjrTom | The important jobs! | 23:59 |
| _abc_ | Ah. Ok. | 23:59 |
| _abc_ | And they are all given to immigrants, because immigrants are important, right? | 23:59 |
| MjrTom | Exactly! | 23:59 |
| _abc_ | Here in .ro they started 2 factories making masks and ppe iirc | 23:59 |
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