| MjrTom | Sounds like .ro has leadership. I wish we had leadership | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| _abc_ | https://www.romania-insider.com/romania-manufacture-masks-farmec-biocide | 00:02 |
| _abc_ | That's one of the factories. They normally make cosmetics, including various tissues, facial beauty masks, etc so it's close enough. | 00:02 |
| _abc_ | I got 2 of their masks in a pharmacy last week but the biocide is priced such that raw alcohol is cheaper per Liter. | 00:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:49 UTC: Coronavirus live news: world leaders pledge $8bn to fight pandemic; Italy death toll 'far higher than reported': French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December; cases in Germany likely to be 10 times higher than official count, say researchers; Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 00:03 |
| MjrTom | What % alcohol tho? | 00:06 |
| _abc_ | The biocide in the pharmacy has iirc 70% alcohol and other biocides in it, it is a gel | 00:06 |
| _abc_ | The 97% distilled ethanol is cheaper by 10-20% than the biocide above. | 00:07 |
| MjrTom | Ah | 00:07 |
| _abc_ | 95 or 97% or whatever. | 00:07 |
| MjrTom | Almost for sure 95% | 00:07 |
| _abc_ | Oh Uber Eats closed down here yesterday. Wow. They were on during the worst of it. | 00:10 |
| MjrTom | LjL (@freenode_LjL:matrix.org): can you guess how often probably most all Italians eat garlic and/or onion? There some compounds in those I'm trying to guess some idea at about if they might have a relationship to covid19 | 00:10 |
| ytlyv9 | forced mask making in the retire homes in usa just look at the death rates | 00:11 |
| _abc_ | ytlyv9: hm? | 00:11 |
| _abc_ | Heh garlic and covid. No there is nothing to that. | 00:11 |
| LjL | ytlyv9, have an hour without making dumb "jokes" | 00:12 |
| _abc_ | But keep in mind that the usual Italian hello is a big hug with not so air kisses on both cheeks including for men followed by animated (spittle spreading) speech at very close quarters. | 00:12 |
| _abc_ | Spaniards are like that too. Seems to correlate with how badly it spread in the beginning there. | 00:13 |
| LjL | MjrTom, compared to north of them, probably more | 00:13 |
| vantomme[m] | seems that uber’s shrinking plan was on the table as a strategy to focus on their main markets even before the pandemic | 00:13 |
| LjL | _abc_, or maybe it's just a correlation you're making up based on stereotypes | 00:13 |
| _abc_ | I remember I was once on a train from Copenhagen to Stockholm, open carriage, quite full, you could hear nothing. Swedes do not raise their voices to annoy. Then a Spanish family boarded and we heard Spanish all the way. | 00:13 |
| LjL | want to know what's the stereotype in Italy about Romanians wrt immigration? | 00:14 |
| _abc_ | LjL: I live in Europe and I know these things personally. | 00:14 |
| LjL | on second thought no, i'm not going there | 00:14 |
| LjL | _abc_, oooooh right then i wouldn't know. | 00:14 |
| MjrTom | Is my hunch that practically all Italians probably have garlic and/or onion in their diets most of the time probably right? | 00:14 |
| LjL | MjrTom, no | 00:14 |
| LjL | especially not in Lombardy where it all went bad | 00:14 |
| _abc_ | LjL: all 1 million Romanians the same stereotype? Sad. We have a Lupina Capitolina given by Mussolini here, we do not diss it. | 00:15 |
| MjrTom | I see | 00:15 |
| LjL | too bad | 00:15 |
| LjL | if only i lived in Europe, to know what all those things mean | 00:15 |
| MjrTom | LjL how about wine consumption? As an American, I'm lead to believe that wine is very popular in Italy. What's probably the truth about that, for most people? Especially Lombardy, for that matter? | 00:17 |
| vantomme[m] | you don’t need to live in europe for having an appetite to learn roman empire history | 00:17 |
| LjL | MjrTom, i don't know man, look up some statistics, they are going to be a LOT more reliable than the perception of some person in his basement | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:10 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Frydenberg warns of economic shock as Ruby Princess inquiry resumes – latest updates → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 00:17 |
| MjrTom | Not necessarily | 00:18 |
| LjL | MjrTom, how so | 00:21 |
| LjL | wine consumption per capita is measured | 00:22 |
| LjL | how is my hunch going to provide a better metric of it | 00:22 |
| ryouma``` | again with the "as" | 00:23 |
| MjrTom | For one thing, statistical reports can have bias, maybe due to agenda, maybe due to how the statistics are collected, maybe due to how they are reported. Eg; "an average Italian drinks 0.1l of wine a day" doesn't really contribute to insight as to what % of the adult pop drinks wine aprox daily | 00:24 |
| MjrTom | There was 'another thing' but I seem to have forgotten what it was | 00:25 |
| LjL | okay then yes i would suspect italians are heavy consumers of wine but not nearly as much as frenchmen and probably less than greeks, also, i would suspect older people are much more likely to consume it than younger people, although i'm already regretting this part as i type it | 00:26 |
| MjrTom | Interesting. Thanks | 00:27 |
| MjrTom | I think it's similar to Spain, which ofc was unfortunately also hard hit. It might suggest that resveratol in wine might not have any benefit regarding cov | 00:29 |
| LjL | and france is clearly doing better because they have by far better wine, presumably, and that increases efficacy | 00:31 |
| MjrTom | Lol | 00:33 |
| ryouma``` | most wine is non-organic right? | 00:34 |
| pyna | and what about the sulfites | 00:34 |
| MjrTom | Well, they pulled all COX-2 inhibitors off the shelves. I would very much like to see an analysis of the influence that seems to have had on the progression of the outbreak in France | 00:34 |
| MjrTom | Oh yeah ... I could be worthwhile to try to consider which countries' wines have more sulfites. That's a really good point | 00:35 |
| LjL | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita | 00:35 |
| ryouma``` | what is the deal with sulfites? | 00:35 |
| ryouma``` | i was concerned about pesticides | 00:36 |
| LjL | according to that, even the UK consumes more wine per capita than Italy | 00:36 |
| LjL | what was i saying about hunches | 00:36 |
| LjL | to be fair the data is pretty old, but i don't think it would have changed in the direction of Italy consuming more in the meanwhile | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3558 cases (now 3.6 million), +95 deaths (now 251796) since 48 minutes ago — Brazil: +2622 cases (now 107844) since 2 hours ago — US: +565 cases (now 1.2 million) since 48 minutes ago | 00:37 |
| LjL | there is like... everyone else before Italy | 00:37 |
| ryouma``` | well we sort of have an image of some patriarch at the head of the table filled with pasta and lots of veg and a huge extended family and red wine going all around | 00:37 |
| LjL | except for countries where alcohol is banned | 00:37 |
| MjrTom | Per capita probably means they take quantity of wine sold and divide by population. That doesn't tell us a lot about how many people actually consume alcohol | 00:38 |
| LjL | that doesn't probably mean it, that's the definition of per capita | 00:38 |
| LjL | and i'm still unsure as to how much hunch would be any better | 00:38 |
| LjL | also considering that i thought consumption per capita was the question | 00:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:27 UTC: Coronavirus live news: world leaders pledge $8bn to fight pandemic; Italy death toll 'far higher than reported': French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December; cases in Germany likely to be 10 times higher than official count, say researchers; Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 00:38 |
| MjrTom | There are reports of Italy reducing wine consumption in the last years (let's say like 15 years) | 00:39 |
| de-facto | https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/bjh.16749 | 00:39 |
| de-facto | "COVID‐19 Coagulopathy in Caucasian patients" | 00:40 |
| MjrTom | My question isn't about statistical consumption per capita, it's about how many living breathing actual people tend to drink wine most days | 00:40 |
| LjL | this being said preemptively: "Critically however, ethnicity has major effects on thrombotic risk, with a 3‐4 fold lower risk in Chinese compared to Caucasians and a significantly higher risk in African‐Americans" ← this is abotu coagulopathy *in general*, not coagulopathy from COVID, if anything the study tentatively concludes that it's a different type of coagulopathy so "dunno" | 00:41 |
| MjrTom | The coagulation/clots are caused by cytokines | 00:41 |
| LjL | MjrTom, and my answer is twofold: 1) i don't know 2) although it's a less trivial statistic to find, that's also something you should seek an answer to in statistics, not people's opinionated belief about their nations | 00:41 |
| ubLXI | %title https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/03/coronavirus-health-passports-for-uk-possible-in-months | 00:43 |
| Brainstorm | ubLXI: From www.theguardian.com: Coronavirus UK: health passports 'possible in months' | Politics | The Guardian | 00:43 |
| ubLXI | "Facial biometrics could be used to help provide a digital certificate" | 00:43 |
| ubLXI | also, scroll down to "How the health passport works" | 00:43 |
| de-facto | ..."Caucasian COVID‐19 patients on LMWH thrombo‐prophylaxis rarely develop overt DIC. In rare COVID‐19 cases where DIC does develop, it tends to be restricted to late stage disease"... | 00:44 |
| de-facto | ..."Given that thrombotic risk is significantly impacted by race, coupled with the accumulating evidence that coagulopathy is important in COVID‐19 pathogenesis, our findings raise the intriguing possibility that pulmonary vasculopathy may contribute to the unexplained differences that are beginning to emerge highlighting racial susceptibility to COVID‐19 mortality."... | 00:45 |
| LjL | ubLXI, no but don't worry despite the horrible loss of lives we will come out better from this, having learned the value of solidarity, silence, lack of pollution, return of nature, and pervasive surveillance | 00:45 |
| MjrTom | > what is the deal with sulfites? | 00:46 |
| MjrTom | There's research evidence (not necessarily relating to cov specifically) that sulfur compounds relate to an effective immune system. There's sulfur compounds in garlic and onion, for example. While sulfite =/= sulfur compounds, it does seem the potential benefit might be from intake if sulfur, and the sulfur compounds are just the delivery vehicle | 00:46 |
| de-facto | they are not saying its the only problem, but maybe one of the more important ones since this would fit with many other findings, e.g. kidney/liver damage, maybe ground glass opacity in lungs on x-rays?, micro-thrombosis in the lungs found at autopsies in italy etc pp | 00:47 |
| ubLXI | LjL: some employers in UK already use smartphone gps-based 'clock-in' hours recording, and selfies for managing ID and wage claims | 00:48 |
| MjrTom | All of that is caused by cytokines | 00:48 |
| de-facto | micro-thrombosis in the lungs? | 00:50 |
| MjrTom | Yes | 00:50 |
| de-facto | is that related to DIC? | 00:50 |
| de-facto | i mean this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disseminated_intravascular_coagulation | 00:50 |
| LjL | ubLXI, how adorably atrocious | 00:51 |
| MjrTom | Idk but I don't think so | 00:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:39 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/lHthk8 | 00:53 |
| MjrTom | Ok looking at the list of causes, yes at least most of those are caused by cytokines | 00:53 |
| ubLXI | LjL: mhm. chatting to a guy in construction industry (via agency), i actually saw him do this selfie thing to complete processing so he could actually get paid; the phone app gps location-based clock-in was for a guy working the till at a petrol station | 00:54 |
| MjrTom | Idk about cancer and pregnancy, but the others are from cytokines | 00:54 |
| de-facto | idk i am no expert, i just think their conjecture with DIC as causing many fatalities deserves further investigations | 00:55 |
| LjL | ubLXI, i'll note those down for when i still get "just don't get a smartphone if you're so bothered" retorts | 00:55 |
| ubLXI | no surprise these things are seen first in the most marginal employed positions | 00:55 |
| MjrTom | Our cytokines meds up up severely when they are dis-regulated | 00:55 |
| MjrTom | * mess us up | 00:56 |
| LjL | de-facto, uh? they specifically say that DIC does *not* often develop in COVID | 00:57 |
| MjrTom | Other complications of Cytokine Release Syndrome probably kill the patient before it can develop | 00:58 |
| de-facto | ..."Our findings confirm that severe COVID‐19 infection is associated with a significant coagulopathy that correlates with disease severity"... | 00:59 |
| de-facto | ..."Importantly however, Caucasian COVID‐19 patients on LMWH thrombo‐prophylaxis rarely develop overt DIC"... | 01:00 |
| ubLXI | LjL: no idea what the construction company was, but imagine this must have become quite typical practise nowadays, at least in agency employment. the gps clock-in was a very large company, Shell | 01:00 |
| de-facto | so i understand that like they say there is a correlation found that may be suppressed by LMWH | 01:00 |
| de-facto | ..."Collectively, these data suggest that the diffuse bilateral pulmonary inflammation observed in COVID‐19 is associated with a novel pulmonary‐specific vasculopathy which we have termed pulmonary intravascular coagulopathy (PIC) as distinct to DIC."... | 01:01 |
| de-facto | so they just give it another name to make it specific for the lungs | 01:01 |
| MjrTom | That's just where the cytokines are being expressed from, by the macrophages | 01:03 |
| de-facto | yeah idk probably its related, they link it to the pulmonary inflammation which probably is causes by the cytokine storm | 01:04 |
| de-facto | s/causes/caused/ | 01:04 |
| MjrTom | Yes it is | 01:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:55 UTC: Coronavirus live news: world leaders pledge $8bn to fight pandemic; Italy death toll 'far higher than reported': French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December; cases in Germany likely to be 10 times higher than official count, say researchers; Japan extends state of emergency as global cases top 3.5m → https://is.gd/0WqZ6C | 01:07 |
| de-facto | i guess its a characteristic problem with many facets which are interlinked | 01:07 |
| MjrTom | Pretty much this whole covid19 thing is about disregulation of the cholinergic inflammatory pathway, resulting in excessive cytokine expression, which causes numerous potential complications, very many of which can directly cause death | 01:07 |
| de-facto | cite from another website "The inflammation does a great deal of tissue damage and creates ground for thrombus formation. However, the main problem is not the virus, but the immune hyperreaction that destroys the cell where the virus is installed. In fact, patients with rheumatoid arthritis have never needed to be admitted to the ICU because they are on corticosteroid therapy, which is a great anti-inflammatory." | 01:10 |
| ryouma``` | i thought steroids were considered neitehr known useful or known bad. wouldn't they sjut throw everybody on them if they wewre useful? | 01:11 |
| MjrTom | In common conversation, a term like "an anti-inflammatory" would usually be fine, however in this case, we should try to clearly distinguish how something acts. For comparison, COX inhibitors are anti-inflammatory, but they can contribute to disregulation of the cholinergic inflammatory pathway, thus causing the cytokine type of inflammation | 01:13 |
| MjrTom | I'm not sure, but I thought I read corticosteroids were found to not be helpful on covid19 | 01:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:05 UTC: Japan sending Fujifilm's flu drug favipiravir to over 40 countries for Covid-19 trials: FujiFilm's flu drug favipiravir (Avigan) has shown to be effective against Covid-19, and Japan is now shipping it to 43 countries for clinical trials. → https://is.gd/Y76Yjr | 01:14 |
| ryouma``` | my il-8 level was measured by a major research lab to be greater than 1000, and il-6 to be around 7. so i am interested in these questions. if you get sars2 when inflammation is already really high are you are higher risk? | 01:20 |
| ryouma``` | (quadruple digits is outrageously high) | 01:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:12 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Frydenberg warns of economic shock as Ruby Princess inquiry resumes – latest updates → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 01:21 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Irish people help raise 1.8 million dollars for Native American tribe badly affected by Covid-19 as payback for a $150 donation by the Choctaw tribe in 1847 during the Irish Potatoe famine (11215 votes) | https://redd.it/gdkt54 | 01:30 |
| MjrTom | Wow that's really a touching story and very Irish | 01:52 |
| ytlyv9 | spud moonshine | 01:54 |
| ytlyv9 | a great loss | 01:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:42 UTC: Coronavirus US live: California to reopen some businesses this week as lockdowns ease across US: Trump administration privately predicts major increase Supreme court livestreams arguments for first time in history US cases at 1,157,875 according to Johns Hopkins data McConnell could yet pay price for ‘tone deaf’ response → https://is.gd/uCbxeE | 01:56 |
| tasty | is the hysteria still being whipped up? | 02:03 |
| tasty | I am big fan of Belarus ! | 02:03 |
| tinwhiskers | tasty: you decided to bring it here too? the number of deaths is not being over-reported; quite the opposite. Excess deaths far outweigh what is being reported. Your agenda of downplaying the severity is just misunderstanding or misinformation. | 02:06 |
| _abc_ | UK tabloids show the new rules for partial business reopening. Dailymail. | 02:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:55 UTC: Coronavirus live news: WHO and Five Eyes reject Chinese lab theory as global deaths pass 250,000: French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December; Italy’s death toll higher than reported; leaders pledge $8bn to fight virus. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/Jcfoey | 02:10 |
| tasty | dude the morons here ban EVERY single sane person like me. the crazies rule! | 02:11 |
| _abc_ | Re: the French patient from December who died and later was found to have had corona - for how long are a patient's blood and samples kept?! | 02:13 |
| tasty | forever . to keep the hysteria alive ! | 02:15 |
| _abc_ | Ah. They found the anibody which blocks covid apparently. | 02:16 |
| _abc_ | The antibody, known as 47D11 -- targets the Spike protein | 02:16 |
| tasty | bombshell ! | 02:17 |
| tasty | can the holocaust II. be averted ? | 02:17 |
| _abc_ | Professor Berend-Jan Bosch at Utrecht University reference for that 47D11 antibody | 02:18 |
| ryouma``` | is this something you could synthesize and inject into everybody? | 02:19 |
| _abc_ | Apparently yes. | 02:19 |
| ryouma``` | when would youdo so? | 02:19 |
| _abc_ | Probably not into everybody but into sick people, as early as possible. | 02:19 |
| _abc_ | When? | 02:19 |
| ryouma``` | well, if it circulates for a long time, maybe you could prevent getting the disease? | 02:20 |
| _abc_ | Teh antibody was developed for SARS not SARS-COV2 but targets the same spike protein in as far as I understand the overview I am still reading. | 02:20 |
| _abc_ | ryouma```: I don't know anything about how long these things last in the bloodstream. | 02:21 |
| _abc_ | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16256-y article the overview cites | 02:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2217 cases (now 3.6 million), +254 deaths (now 252050) since an hour ago — US: +2076 cases (now 1.2 million), +231 deaths (now 69723) since an hour ago — Guayas, Ecuador: +1846 cases (now 13053) since 22 hours ago | 02:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:18 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: 11 more workers at Victorian abattoir test positive as Frydenberg warns of economic shock – latest updates → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 02:24 |
| _abc_ | New work rules for UK when then loosen up a bit in a few days. https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/05/04/22/28001950-8286345-image-a-29_1588627141661.jpg | 02:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus deaths projected to hit 3,000 per day by June, internal Trump administration analysis says → https://is.gd/1CiirG | 02:31 |
| _abc_ | I like it how they insist on electronic payments instead of cash. Cash is very easy to disinfect, most money is plastic now. Spray disinfectant lotion on it let dry. Both sides. Note that ALL electronic payments implicitly record time and location immediately and permanently. Thus "free" contact tracking for whoever accesses the databases. | 02:32 |
| LjL | euros aren't plastic | 02:33 |
| _abc_ | They are sort of plastic. It is not paper. Even if it were it would make no difference, the alcohol in the lotion does not degrade it. | 02:34 |
| _abc_ | It is similar to Tyvek which is what the PPE are made of. | 02:34 |
| LjL | it's cotton paper, so... paper | 02:37 |
| _abc_ | Interesting. Our money is plastic. Not on Euro yet and won't come here soon. | 02:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:34 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: 11 more workers at Victorian abattoir test positive as Frydenberg warns of economic shock – latest updates → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 02:38 |
| _abc_ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_banknote we have something like this. I tried them, they do not show any degradation after several spraying and drying cycles with 70% alcohol. | 02:39 |
| _abc_ | Also UK which has the info from above inclunding on banknote avoidance uses UKP which is I think some linen based paper. And some are polymer banknotes. | 02:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:40 UTC: (news): Coronavirus deaths projected to hit 3,000 per day by June, internal Trump administration analysis says → https://is.gd/1CiirG | 02:46 |
| ytlyv9 | whats the death count in 18 months | 02:49 |
| ytlyv9 | when trumps cure comes out | 02:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ceara, Brazil: +2539 cases (now 11040) since 4 hours ago — World: +1485 cases (now 3.6 million), +274 deaths (now 252324) since 34 minutes ago — US: +442 cases (now 1.2 million), +192 deaths (now 69915) since 34 minutes ago | 02:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 00:54 UTC: Coronavirus doctor's diary: Is lockdown good for your heart?: Why do fewer people seem to be having heart attacks and strokes? One theory is that the lockdown lifestyle is healthy. → https://is.gd/A3Hd0j | 03:00 |
| LjL | uh | 03:00 |
| LjL | "One clue has emerged from people using the Fitbit health and fitness tracker in the US. Heart rate is a good indicator for heart health - the lower your resting heart rate the better - and Fitbit has found that during lockdown average resting heart rates have fallen. " | 03:01 |
| LjL | that is my clue that i don't want to wear a band that sends all my movement and heartrate data to a company for analysis | 03:01 |
| LjL | "And the fact that 64% of the Covid-positive NHS staff who have died nationwide are BAME has caused ripples of anxiety to spread to the hospital." ← uh well that does indeed sound a bit creepy. economic factors i can believe in general... but within healthcare workers in particular? | 03:04 |
| _abc_ | So are they saying that if the heart rate falls to zero then you are very very healthy? Something is amiss. Kidding. | 03:04 |
| _abc_ | BAME? | 03:05 |
| LjL | black asian middle eastern is my guess | 03:06 |
| LjL | but even if it's wrong that's the idea | 03:06 |
| Butterfly^ | https://imgur.com/gallery/q58gKXu read this, covid is some fucking nasty scary shit, for those who still think it's just "like the flu" | 03:07 |
| _abc_ | Fwiw I happen to know that health care workers and doctors who depart from here in Eastern Europe to work elsewhere, including UK, tend to get the worst shifts and the worst / highest load positions in the beginning. I assume it is similar for non-locals in UK too? | 03:07 |
| _abc_ | So that may correlate with worse outcome via more stress, more likely to live in dodgy accommodation with questionable hygiene here and there (common spaces, stairs, share apartment etc). | 03:08 |
| _abc_ | Longer commute to work using public transport. Who knows. | 03:08 |
| LjL | yeah, i just thought it would be less likely to be the case for healthcare workers than "BAME" in general... and 64% really does seem pretty damned high | 03:09 |
| ryouma``` | did they limit it tot he same jobs? | 03:09 |
| LjL | i have no idea what percentage they represent so i'm not sure, though | 03:09 |
| _abc_ | 64% is just 15% more than 50 | 03:09 |
| _abc_ | %. I don't know how significant that is. | 03:09 |
| LjL | uh, that's wrong in more than one ways | 03:09 |
| Butterfly^ | _abc_ : and the longer you work, the less you sleep, the more stress you have, the weaker your immune system becomes, so they're also more likely to catch the virus and die from it | 03:10 |
| _abc_ | Butterfly^: yes that too | 03:10 |
| PlanckWalk | It looks like black & minority make up ~20% of the NHS workforce. | 03:10 |
| ryouma``` | they might have less ppe just because of the jobs they occupy or something | 03:11 |
| PlanckWalk | I haven't seen a 64% propoertion of deaths though | 03:12 |
| _abc_ | PlanckWalk: I don't know what is going on in UK, in Canada, for example, a retirement home's personnel was 80-90% visible minorities 10 years ago. | 03:13 |
| PlanckWalk | It looks like London has far more though | 03:13 |
| _abc_ | Some unqualified, no English (not usable), and definitely underpaid if you ask me. | 03:13 |
| _abc_ | For what they were doing. | 03:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:04 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: Ruby Princess was almost sent back out to sea, inquiry reveals – latest updates: Eleven more workers at Victorian abattoir test positive for Covid-19 as treasury estimates $4bn reduction in economic activity for every extra week restrictions remain in place. Follow all the latest [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 03:14 |
| PlanckWalk | Ah okay. 20% in the NHS in general, 44% in medical roles. | 03:15 |
| tinwhiskers | New Zealand records 0 new cases for the second day running. Elimination is beginning to look feasible, so I may have to eat my words. | 03:15 |
| ryouma``` | within a nation? | 03:17 |
| ryouma``` | then they quarantine all visitors at all ports? | 03:17 |
| _abc_ | tinwhiskers: there will be flareups "forever" with this crap. It's too contagious to just die out quietly. | 03:17 |
| PlanckWalk | My state has 0 cases for a few days in a row, after a nasty cluster was discovered a couple weeks ago. | 03:17 |
| _abc_ | What about that place where the rebels from the Bounty moved. Err some island I forget. | 03:18 |
| ryouma``` | tonga does not | 03:18 |
| LjL | %title https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-mortality/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-far-higher-than-reported-stats-office-idUSKBN22G1WM | 03:18 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.reuters.com: Italy's coronavirus death toll far higher than reported: stats office - Reuters | 03:18 |
| ryouma``` | pitcairn | 03:18 |
| LjL | Of the 25,354 “excess deaths”, the coronavirus was registered by the Civil Protection Agency as the official cause for 13,710, leaving around 11,600 deaths unaccounted for. These occurred overwhelmingly in the northern part of Italy most heavily hit by the virus. | 03:18 |
| tinwhiskers | We don't have any cases here in Tonga despite a couple of infected people passing through. There are several small nations around here that don't have it. | 03:18 |
| LjL | and that's only until March 31 | 03:18 |
| tinwhiskers | as for "there will be falre-ups"... not necessarily. We're eliminated several diseases before and have a good track record on that. | 03:19 |
| _abc_ | tinwhiskers: ok, if you're set, you're set | 03:19 |
| _abc_ | As a small island nation you would be very much aware of the devastation brought in by some sick person, so you'd have some measures in place all the time I guess. | 03:19 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, it looks like a lot of places are seeing twice as many (or more!) excess deaths as those confirmed with coronavirus. | 03:19 |
| tinwhiskers | You don't get flare-ups from nowhere if your border control is effective and you have carried out enough case tracking. You can eliminate diseases. | 03:19 |
| tinwhiskers | we're now in talks with Australia about opening up tourism with them (as well as the aforementioned pacific nations who are covid-free) to start getting things ticking again on that front. In a rare move the prime minister of NZ has joined in with the australian parliament to discuss where we go next, with a view to being successful in both countries. | 03:22 |
| ryouma``` | without quarantine? | 03:23 |
| tinwhiskers | right | 03:23 |
| _abc_ | Interesting there is something called EAMS in UK which allows selected patients to use not yet approved drugs. | 03:23 |
| _abc_ | Early Access to Medicines Scheme | 03:24 |
| tinwhiskers | well, I don't know about that for sure, but presumably you can take people from other covid-free countries without quarantine provided they are adhering to sufficient border controls as well | 03:24 |
| PlanckWalk | Australia is testing about 0.1% population per day. Everyone who has any symptoms at all and wants a test, as well as some who don't have symptoms but are close contacts of known cases or are in health sector. | 03:24 |
| _abc_ | tinwhiskers: maybe it will work. Or make all trips 21 days long... and quarantine people in the vacation places themselves. | 03:25 |
| PlanckWalk | If there's any outbreak, we'll detect it quite early and quarantine their contacts whether they have symptoms or not. | 03:25 |
| tinwhiskers | in NZ we talk about peoples' "bubbles", which under lockdown level 4 was immediate family only. Now our bubbles have been extended to include care workers and socially isolated family members. In another week the plan is to go to level 2, whick expands our bubble limits further, and then onto inter-country bubbles with those that qualify. | 03:26 |
| PlanckWalk | It remains to be seen how far we can lift restrictions with that in place. | 03:26 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 03:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:22 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global death toll tops 251,000, China reports one new confirmed case: The virus was first reported in China's Hubei province late last year and has rapidly spread around the world since then, infecting more than 3.5 million people. → https://is.gd/cKABIk | 03:28 |
| PlanckWalk | I think the only serious outbreaks at the moment are two aged care homes and a meat packing plant. | 03:28 |
| _abc_ | I don't buy the just one case in China part. | 03:28 |
| _abc_ | One reported means 100 real cases? 99 hiding hoping to get over it? | 03:28 |
| PlanckWalk | Eh, I think it's plausible. | 03:29 |
| PlanckWalk | They're being very Big Brother in tracking their population. | 03:29 |
| _abc_ | It's not. Remember their borders are open, they travel. | 03:29 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, and as we get the cases lower we can swamp the area with testing due to freed-up testing capacity. It gets a lot easier as you get your cases down to keep under control of contact tracing. | 03:29 |
| ytlyv9 | whats the death count in 18 months | 03:29 |
| PlanckWalk | Their internal borders are partly open | 03:29 |
| ytlyv9 | when trumps cure comes out | 03:29 |
| _abc_ | I mean external. They have international flights. Crazy but true. | 03:30 |
| PlanckWalk | They require quarantine for a couple weeks | 03:30 |
| _abc_ | Yes so did other countries and yet... It's not so simple, these things are not airtight. | 03:30 |
| PlanckWalk | They don't need to be airtight | 03:30 |
| tinwhiskers | NZ still has some limited international flights, largely repatriation flights but everyone goes into 2 week compulsory government monitored quarantine in hotels that are paid for by the government. | 03:31 |
| tinwhiskers | Apparently the food isn't great | 03:31 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, same in Australia | 03:32 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, cool | 03:32 |
| PlanckWalk | Similar between most states as well | 03:32 |
| tinwhiskers | ah. ok | 03:32 |
| tinwhiskers | that's the sort of hard-line policy that makes a big difference. leaky borders will mean you can never be rid of it even if you do everything else right. | 03:34 |
| PlanckWalk | One or two states allow quaratine at home for interstate travellers | 03:34 |
| PlanckWalk | (I.e. returning travellers) | 03:34 |
| tinwhiskers | the downside is that I might have to go for a holiday to australia instead of vietnam ;-) | 03:34 |
| PlanckWalk | My mother came back from New Zealand after the quarantine (at home) went in place but just before it was in hotel paid by government. | 03:36 |
| tinwhiskers | anyway, at this stage down-under is leading the world in terms of covid response and we have good reason to be proud of that so far. Well done cobber. | 03:36 |
| tinwhiskers | Ah, yeah, it was "self-monitored" for a while | 03:37 |
| sookie | the only thing china is big brother about is its disinformation campaign | 03:37 |
| PlanckWalk | We have always been at war with COVID-19 | 03:37 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 03:37 |
| sookie | none of their data are reliable | 03:37 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, I agree that it's not reliable. It's not implausible, but I still don't trust it. | 03:38 |
| sookie | lots of things aren't "implausible" | 03:38 |
| sookie | that's not the right acid test | 03:38 |
| tinwhiskers | what is the right acid test? | 03:39 |
| PlanckWalk | Someone yesterday was saying that it was impossible. | 03:39 |
| sookie | the right acid test is a history and reputation for providing accurate and true informaiton | 03:39 |
| _abc_ | There's like a correction coefficient one applies I guess. When they claim 1 new sick you apply it and it means 100. | 03:39 |
| PlanckWalk | But from the point of view of "it started in China, how can they not have millions dead when we in USA have tens of thousands dead?" | 03:39 |
| _abc_ | Just an example. | 03:39 |
| sookie | their numbers are fake | 03:40 |
| sookie | saying "they | 03:40 |
| sookie | saying "they're not implausible" is giving them more credence than they deserve | 03:40 |
| _abc_ | PlanckWalk: they might have that many. A few days ago they simply added 3500 dead for Wuhan. It might be corrected a few more times as things progress. | 03:40 |
| tinwhiskers | that is no more a good acid test than assuming they are correct. Truth by reputation in a fallacy, but it may be a guide. | 03:40 |
| sookie | you're wrong | 03:41 |
| PlanckWalk | sookie: I give them enough credit to be able to make up fake plausible numbers. | 03:41 |
| tinwhiskers | ok :-) | 03:41 |
| _abc_ | Death by truth by reputation is what everyone is experiencing now tinwhiskers. | 03:41 |
| sookie | PlanckWalk: ok, so they're good at faking stuff :) | 03:41 |
| sookie | practice makes perfect | 03:41 |
| _abc_ | If they had not quenched the medical alert in January a LOT of people would be alive now and the economies less tanked. | 03:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:35 UTC: Coronavirus live news: WHO and Five Eyes reject Chinese lab theory as global deaths pass 250,000: New Zealand records no new cases for second straight day; Italy’s death toll higher than reported; leaders pledge $8bn to fight virus. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/Jcfoey | 03:42 |
| tinwhiskers | your speculation isn't really better than someone else's speculation. Just about everyone seems to have incorrect numbers. Miles out really. | 03:42 |
| _abc_ | One month fewer in the exponential growth period would have meant easily 1000 times fewer cases. | 03:42 |
| _abc_ | It used to go x10 in 10 days or so in most places before lockdown. | 03:42 |
| sookie | remember when they had their big train wreck? and the next day the communist party sent a bunch of soldiers to dig huge holes to bury the train cars? (some even said survivors were buried with the cars) | 03:42 |
| PlanckWalk | Eh, everywhere is going to need to correct their numbers in a couple of months. Some already have. China is no different there. | 03:42 |
| sookie | chinese official story was that the train got struck by lightning | 03:43 |
| sookie | or when china said nobody died in tianamen | 03:43 |
| _abc_ | Assume they also had exactly this before their own lockdown, meaning 2 months of x1000 per month = 1 million cases, if it started in December as reported. | 03:43 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, I expect they had on the order of a million cases. | 03:43 |
| sookie | or when china said they didn't have gulags for the muslim minority uyghurs | 03:43 |
| sookie | yeah, buddy, china doesn't lie | 03:44 |
| tinwhiskers | Nobody is saying China is above reproach and it's fairly likely the numbers are not entirely true, especially during the early stages, but it is plausible they are getting the cases they are now reporting. | 03:44 |
| sookie | keep convincing yourself of that | 03:44 |
| PlanckWalk | But then I expect USA has at least 10 million. | 03:44 |
| PlanckWalk | had* | 03:44 |
| sookie | china had tens of millions | 03:44 |
| _abc_ | So this means they probably suppressed at least one month worth of information coming from internal sources like doctors. We only know about a few who tried to talk and were suppressed, there were likely several more who did not speak up or were intimidated. | 03:44 |
| sookie | at least | 03:44 |
| sookie | even the mortuaries in wuhan had sent out hundreds of thousands of urns | 03:45 |
| tinwhiskers | probably | 03:45 |
| PlanckWalk | I expect Australia has had tens of thousands. | 03:45 |
| sookie | that's "dead" | 03:45 |
| tinwhiskers | that's a red herring. Nobody really knows and you're stating it as fact. We don't know it as a fact. It's quite possible they are lying, but it's not sure they are | 03:46 |
| sookie | a red herring is something meant to mislead or distract | 03:46 |
| sookie | i am doing neither and i resent the implication | 03:46 |
| tinwhiskers | you can be sure their numbers are not much better or a bit worse than those coming out of the states though | 03:46 |
| sookie | if you want to say i am not certain then say so. | 03:46 |
| sookie | don't insult me | 03:46 |
| tinwhiskers | I didn't insult you | 03:46 |
| sookie | yes, you called my comment a red herring | 03:47 |
| sookie | and again, a red herring is something meant to mislead | 03:47 |
| tinwhiskers | the urn things has already been discredited so using that a reason to make an absolute fact that you really don't know is dishonest or ignorant. | 03:47 |
| sookie | so you are insulting me | 03:47 |
| sookie | it hasn't been discredited at all | 03:47 |
| sookie | it's been reported by whistleblowers in wuhan | 03:48 |
| tinwhiskers | Its not insulting to be ignorant of something | 03:48 |
| sookie | unless you mean by discredited that the chinese communist party said it's not true | 03:48 |
| tinwhiskers | we're ignorant of some things | 03:48 |
| tinwhiskers | *all | 03:48 |
| sookie | ok, well, i think you're igorant on things china | 03:48 |
| sookie | you believe their propaganda | 03:48 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, we just have .. no. | 03:48 |
| sookie | show me how the urn thing was discredited | 03:48 |
| tinwhiskers | Look, I'm not the one stating things I don't know as absolute facts | 03:48 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, we don't know what the true numbers abotu China are. | 03:49 |
| PlanckWalk | No, we don't believe their propaganda. | 03:49 |
| sookie | i'm not stating anything as absolute fact | 03:49 |
| sookie | i am suggesting your numbers are wrong | 03:49 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm saying they may well be untrue but they may be as accurate as other countries are reporting as well | 03:49 |
| sookie | you have a view on their numbers and i think they're a result of believe the propaganda | 03:49 |
| sookie | and i have different numbers | 03:49 |
| PlanckWalk | Then you're wrong. | 03:49 |
| sookie | and neither of us know for sure | 03:49 |
| tinwhiskers | now you get it | 03:49 |
| tinwhiskers | we don't know | 03:50 |
| sookie | yes | 03:50 |
| sookie | we don't | 03:50 |
| sookie | except we do know china has a history of lying | 03:50 |
| PlanckWalk | Specifically: you're absolutely and factuaslly wrong about "i think they're a result of believe the propaganda" | 03:50 |
| tinwhiskers | so stop with the absolute facts as though you do know. you don't know. | 03:50 |
| sookie | and for some reason you decide to believe they suddenly found a desire to be honest | 03:50 |
| sookie | what absolute facts, yo? | 03:50 |
| tinwhiskers | no, I'm not saying their numbers are absolutely true | 03:50 |
| sookie | i am stating my opinion just like you state yours | 03:50 |
| PlanckWalk | Also you have no basis for the absolute claim "china had tens of millions" | 03:51 |
| tinwhiskers | then say it's your opinion and not a fact | 03:51 |
| sookie | tinwhiskers: ok, so what are you saying? | 03:51 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm saying I don't know. | 03:51 |
| sookie | ok, let's make this easy then | 03:51 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm saying you don't know | 03:51 |
| sookie | up front, we can all stipulate that none of us knows for certain what their numbers are ok? | 03:51 |
| sookie | now we can move on and discuss what we believe them to be | 03:52 |
| tinwhiskers | right. so by extension claiming anything as fact is dishonest at best | 03:52 |
| sookie | again, we're not claiming anything as fac | 03:52 |
| sookie | fact | 03:52 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, you did | 03:52 |
| sookie | because we have stipulated to not know with certainty | 03:52 |
| sookie | we're discussing what we believe their numbers to be | 03:52 |
| tinwhiskers | you have now admitted this. could have saved a lot of time | 03:52 |
| sookie | each of us has his own idea of this | 03:52 |
| sookie | informed by different things | 03:53 |
| sookie | and we're debating it | 03:53 |
| tinwhiskers | so, you're now saying this is just your speculation... I have no interest in your speculation. | 03:53 |
| sookie | do you have more than speculation? | 03:53 |
| PlanckWalk | I think we can make very rough estimates by reading what non-Chinese people living in China are saying about the situation. | 03:53 |
| PlanckWalk | Also independent reporters | 03:54 |
| tinwhiskers | I don't. I just want to be clear that you don't either. | 03:54 |
| sookie | ok, but not we're going in circles | 03:54 |
| PlanckWalk | Based on that, I don't think "tens of millions" is credible. | 03:54 |
| sookie | we've stated several times (probably bored many onlookers) that we're debating opinions about what is likely | 03:55 |
| sookie | PlanckWalk: what do you think the death toll in wuhan was? | 03:55 |
| PlanckWalk | "Tens of thousands" also doesn't look credible in the other direction. | 03:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:46 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: Ruby Princess was almost sent back out to sea, inquiry reveals – latest updates: Eleven more workers at Victorian abattoir test positive for Covid-19 as treasury estimates $4bn reduction in economic activity for every extra week restrictions remain in place. Follow all the latest [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 03:56 |
| PlanckWalk | sookie: More than 5k, less than 100k. | 03:57 |
| sookie | you have anecodtal evidence like this: https://www.france24.com/en/20200331-stacks-of-urns-in-wuhan-raise-doubts-about-china-s-official-virus-toll | 03:57 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, I remember reading that some weeks ago | 03:58 |
| PlanckWalk | (Not on that particular news site) | 03:58 |
| sookie | 100K out of 11M, so an infection prevalence of 0.9% ? | 03:58 |
| sookie | what was NYC, 23% infection prevalence? | 03:59 |
| sookie | oh sorry, deaths.. | 03:59 |
| PlanckWalk | We don't know yet what NYC is going to turn out to be. | 03:59 |
| sookie | we have statistical inference | 03:59 |
| sookie | but yes | 04:00 |
| sookie | DISCLAIMER TIME | 04:00 |
| sookie | we don't have certainty | 04:00 |
| PlanckWalk | Antibody testing suggests that the number of infection was on the order of 5%-50%. | 04:00 |
| sookie | their antibody testing pegs nyc seroprevalence at 23% or so | 04:01 |
| PlanckWalk | In that biased sample, yes | 04:01 |
| sookie | was it biased? | 04:01 |
| PlanckWalk | yes | 04:01 |
| PlanckWalk | It wasn't a random sample of the population, it was a sample from locations near grocery stores of people who chose to go there. | 04:02 |
| sookie | i haven't reviewed the study particulars. what was the sampling process? | 04:02 |
| PlanckWalk | (and get tested) | 04:02 |
| PlanckWalk | So it's useful for some order-of-magnitude estimates, but not much more. | 04:02 |
| sookie | do you have the study link? | 04:03 |
| sookie | that describes this methodology? | 04:03 |
| tinwhiskers | Wuhan typically has 56,007 (2019) cremations so you'd expect 1000 per week in a normal year. Having a stack of a few thousand urns in a warehouse doesn't seem like a smoking gun to me. I mean it's consistent with both scenarios. | 04:03 |
| PlanckWalk | They haven't released a paper yet | 04:03 |
| PlanckWalk | Just press statements about the process | 04:03 |
| sookie | do you have a link from them describing the process? | 04:03 |
| Butterfly^ | https://imgur.com/gallery/wOag4zg Totally sane people. Also, great job social distancing. | 04:04 |
| sookie | "Wuhan typically has 56,007" is this fact? | 04:04 |
| PlanckWalk | Ehh, not to hand. I saw some of it on TV news, some in news articles | 04:05 |
| PlanckWalk | Although this wasn't one of my original sources, it's related: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200424/more-data-bolsters-higher-covid-prevalence | 04:05 |
| PlanckWalk | (Found in web search) | 04:05 |
| PlanckWalk | That was from the first round | 04:06 |
| PlanckWalk | "The state randomly tested 3,000 people who were out shopping." | 04:07 |
| sookie | is it a perfect sampling process? no. but i find it funny that we're ripping this nyc study to shreds and saying "china | 04:07 |
| PlanckWalk | Other articles have had more details. | 04:07 |
| sookie | is it a perfect sampling process? no. but i find it funny that we're ripping this nyc study to shreds and saying "china's numbers? not implausible" | 04:08 |
| PlanckWalk | 23% is plausible for NYC | 04:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2127 cases (now 3.6 million), +158 deaths (now 252482) since an hour ago — Mexico: +1434 cases (now 24905), +117 deaths (now 2271) since a day ago — Brazil: +354 cases (now 108620) since an hour ago | 04:08 |
| PlanckWalk | I think 5-50% is a more reasonable range of estimates, though. | 04:09 |
| sookie | not sure that's very reasonabkle | 04:11 |
| sookie | 5% infection rate means that the 19K deaths in NYC give an IFR of 4.75% | 04:12 |
| sookie | hard to imagine COVID that deadly | 04:12 |
| PlanckWalk | Oh, I just meant for indicated range from the seroprevalence survey | 04:13 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, other factors make the bottom end unlikely. | 04:13 |
| de-facto | that would indicate something like 4.2% of us population could have had covid-19 | 04:13 |
| de-facto | assumed fatality rate is 0.5% and 70k fatalities are real numbers | 04:14 |
| sookie | if you assume 23% infection prevalence the IFR is 1.0% | 04:14 |
| sookie | still a bit high | 04:14 |
| PlanckWalk | Estimated IFR ranges would put the lower bound at about 15% in NYC | 04:14 |
| sookie | IFR of 15%, unpossible | 04:15 |
| PlanckWalk | No, 15% infections in population | 04:15 |
| sookie | oh ok. | 04:15 |
| sookie | 15% would give an IFR of 1.6% | 04:16 |
| PlanckWalk | That would put the IFR pretty high, but not completely implausible. | 04:16 |
| sookie | high, very high, but not impossible. | 04:16 |
| PlanckWalk | I hop eit's not that high :( | 04:17 |
| de-facto | so it would be like (70k / 0.5%) / 330M = 4.2% | 04:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:06 UTC: Sydney: Carriageworks goes into voluntary administration citing 'irreparable loss of income' due to coronavirus → https://is.gd/e4SHhn | 04:17 |
| sookie | de-facto: yes, that prevalence seems possible | 04:18 |
| sookie | de-facto: you have the high end prevalence in places like nyc at 15%-25% | 04:19 |
| sookie | and low end in places like montana, south dakota, etc | 04:19 |
| de-facto | yeah NYC is a huge hotspot | 04:19 |
| sookie | what's the death toll if you remove ny and nj? | 04:19 |
| de-facto | 27% of us cases are located in NYC | 04:20 |
| sookie | then do the same calculation with 330M-(19.5M-8.8M) | 04:20 |
| PlanckWalk | Worldometer data has about 33k in NY and NJ, 70k total | 04:21 |
| de-facto | only 62% without NYC and NJ | 04:21 |
| sookie | so ((70K-25K-8K)/5% )/(330M-19.5M-8.8M) | 04:21 |
| ytlyv9 | population less denseity | 04:21 |
| ytlyv9 | nyc montana | 04:22 |
| de-facto | would be 2.5% | 04:23 |
| sookie | de-facto: i get 2.5 | 04:23 |
| sookie | yep | 04:23 |
| de-facto | yeah | 04:23 |
| sookie | so ny+nj are really swaying the overall stats | 04:23 |
| de-facto | i think that could be realistic order of magnitude | 04:23 |
| PlanckWalk | Let's hope it stays that way! | 04:24 |
| sookie | don't we hope otherwise? | 04:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:15 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global death toll tops 251,000, China reports one new confirmed case: The virus was first reported in China's Hubei province late last year and has rapidly spread around the world since then, infecting more than 3.5 million people. → https://is.gd/cKABIk | 04:24 |
| sookie | having 97% of the population susceptible with no vaccine in sight isn't great news | 04:24 |
| PlanckWalk | Having 30x as many dead isn't great either :( | 04:25 |
| sookie | but if we get herd immunity from the segment of the population that is very likely to have mild symptoms means the elderly benefit | 04:26 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, if that coudl be achieved. | 04:26 |
| sookie | i favor a segmented approach...let healthy people get sick and protect those who usually are the ones to die | 04:26 |
| sookie | and... | 04:27 |
| sookie | another benefit | 04:27 |
| PlanckWalk | I think that would be more difficult to arrange than preventing most of the population getting sick in the first place | 04:27 |
| sookie | is you get tons of convalescent plasma | 04:27 |
| PlanckWalk | True | 04:27 |
| sookie | so you end up maybe being able to save some of those elderly who would die | 04:27 |
| sookie | preventing most from getting sick requires widespread lockdowns | 04:28 |
| sookie | and that isn't sustainable | 04:28 |
| sookie | even rich countries like the u.s. and germany will end up failing. poor countries like africa and south america will be decimated. | 04:29 |
| sookie | like in* | 04:29 |
| PlanckWalk | I think major lockdowns are only needed until cases fall back to test-trace-isolate levels. | 04:30 |
| sookie | i hope so | 04:30 |
| PlanckWalk | But many places probably can't sustain lockdowns even that long :( | 04:30 |
| sookie | not only that. but you require some basic level of competence and installed capacity | 04:30 |
| sookie | to do surveillance, testing, etc | 04:30 |
| PlanckWalk | At least in Africa the population is on average much younger. | 04:30 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes | 04:30 |
| sookie | some impoverished countries can't do that | 04:31 |
| PlanckWalk | Right :( | 04:31 |
| sookie | when this all started i was supportive of the lockdown approach | 04:32 |
| sookie | but i am now slowly changing my view and am now believing the incurred social costs of lockdown outweigh the costs of rapid covid spread. | 04:32 |
| PlanckWalk | I support it anywhere that it can be done, as an interim measure. But I recognise that it can't be done many places. | 04:33 |
| PlanckWalk | Or shouldn't be done, if there's no expectation of being able to sustain post-lockdown suppression. | 04:33 |
| sookie | right, if you can't reasonably be expected to suppress post-lockdown then locking down simply doubles the grief | 04:34 |
| sookie | it postpones the death you'll incur anyways and you add to that the economic collapse from shutdown | 04:34 |
| sookie | so it might even be worse | 04:35 |
| sookie | worse death toll i mean, obviously worse since it's 2 things | 04:35 |
| PlanckWalk | Like that black humour: "COVID: This is a mugging - your lives or your economy. Governments: Errrr..... COVID: Right, I'll take both." | 04:35 |
| ytlyv9 | the virus will fix the over population god will kill many | 04:36 |
| sookie | you know what would be interesting, some study of man-years lost from things like lost jobs, lost health insurance, increased drug addiction, alcohol abuse, etc | 04:36 |
| sookie | because it's not lives vs econonomy | 04:36 |
| sookie | it's lives vs economy+lives | 04:36 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: NY Governor says not wearing a mask is ‘disrespectful’ to coronavirus frontline workers (10002 votes) | https://redd.it/gdbx7e | 04:37 |
| sookie | or even effective life | 04:37 |
| sookie | say your parents lose their jobs due to covid lockdown and you're born. your early years (where nutrition is key to brain development etc) you don't get needed nutrients because your parents are destitute | 04:38 |
| sookie | that has a permanent irreversible impact on your life | 04:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 02:31 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Kyle Griffin su Twitter: "Dr, Fauci: No scientific evidence the coronavirus was made in a Chinese lab. "Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species." https://t.co/1vebeQprOJ" → https://is.gd/vc7wrj | 04:38 |
| PlanckWalk | It's sort of ridiculous that this virus is just lethal enough to make this a debate with two reasonable sides. | 04:38 |
| sookie | there is no good choice here | 04:40 |
| ryouma``` | there is a paper on heterogenous lockdown taht looked interesting and tried to putin what numbers it could. can't seem to find it. | 04:40 |
| sookie | it's a matter of finding out which is the least worst | 04:40 |
| ryouma``` | 2 authors, one from cmu | 04:40 |
| de-facto | perfectly design® by nature™ :) | 04:40 |
| PlanckWalk | If it killed 5%+ (like SARS) or was equally deadly to old and young then everyone would move heaven and earth to squash it. | 04:40 |
| de-facto | just the right amount of everything to be as effective as possible against human economy | 04:40 |
| PlanckWalk | Yeah | 04:41 |
| de-facto | e.g. if it could not spread asymptomatically with its stealth capabilities it would not spread nearly as effective as it does | 04:43 |
| de-facto | or if it was more fatal or such | 04:43 |
| de-facto | or if it would not progress as slowly as it does | 04:43 |
| de-facto | etc pp | 04:43 |
| de-facto | lets just wait what curiosities it holds for vaccine development ... | 04:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:39 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: ABS says 1m jobs lost since mid-March – latest updates: Eleven more workers at Victorian abattoir test positive for Covid-19 as treasury estimates $4bn reduction in economic activity for every extra week restrictions remain in place. Follow all the latest news, live → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 04:45 |
| ryouma``` | https://math.cmu.edu/~wes/covid.html | 04:45 |
| ryouma``` | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that's the one | 04:45 |
| sookie | PlanckWalk: i think sars was less worrisome | 04:59 |
| sookie | yes, high death rate but also you knew who had it, and you did so quickly | 04:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:56 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: treasurer says 'economic shock dwarfs GFC' – latest update: Eleven more workers at Victorian abattoir test positive for Covid-19 as Treasury estimates $4bn reduction in economic activity for every extra week restrictions remain in place. Follow all the latest news, live → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 04:59 |
| ryouma``` | sugegstion to moderators: can we ahve slightly less frequency for the news bots for the same articles? i keep getting pinged that there is something new in the channel when it is news that was just posted recently. just a susggestion. | 05:00 |
| sookie | and i don't think this hitting the elderly vs hitting everyone the same is making us less willing to take drastic measures | 05:01 |
| sookie | if anything, most politicians making these calls are 65+ years old | 05:01 |
| ryouma``` | no there are disturbing social darwinism and eugenics like sentiments out there | 05:01 |
| ryouma``` | for example, "boomer remover" | 05:02 |
| sookie | my gut says it's just the result of some lockdown defenders using the "you just wanna kill grandma" strawman | 05:02 |
| sookie | no one wants to kill granny | 05:02 |
| sookie | but it's a way for lockdown-forever folks to demonize the lets-not-crater-our-economies folks | 05:03 |
| ryouma``` | no. it is the result of pre-existing generational warfare in that case. it is the result of social darwinist, eugenics, and desire to remove perceived burdens or subhumans that is behind other sentiments. | 05:03 |
| ryouma``` | millennials already hated boomers. look up "ok boomer". | 05:03 |
| ryouma``` | a lot want to kill everybody else's granny | 05:04 |
| ryouma``` | this is a real threat | 05:04 |
| penguin10916 | Well, Covid19 was the final nail in my colleges coffin. They just announced permanent closure after the summer term. | 05:04 |
| sookie | college is closing forever? | 05:04 |
| ryouma``` | wow like a liberal arts coolege? | 05:04 |
| bin_bash | probably not | 05:05 |
| bin_bash | probably a for-profit college | 05:05 |
| penguin10916 | Was liberal arts, but had a fair amount of Stem. Graduated 5 years ago, but now have to explain that when I go to interviews since I'm trying to get out of Health IT considering that I have to now deal with bimonthly furloughs because of falling profits. | 05:05 |
| penguin10916 | non-profit franciscan school. | 05:06 |
| sookie | we're going to be seeing a lot of those kinds of things. colleges, hospitals, restaurants, hotels, airlines, clothing stores, etc etc | 05:06 |
| bin_bash | wtf is a franciscan school | 05:06 |
| penguin10916 | A Catholic College established by the Franciscan order | 05:06 |
| bin_bash | ah | 05:07 |
| penguin10916 | They're the peace loving, tolerant - live and let live Catholics that got heavily scrutinized and micromanaged by the vatican for not being assholes. | 05:07 |
| sookie | are they the ones who wear brown cloaks? | 05:08 |
| sookie | or am i thinking of capuchin monks | 05:08 |
| penguin10916 | The friars (monks) do; the sisters (technically not nuns) usually are in white and black, look like penguins and wear a light veil | 05:09 |
| penguin10916 | The college had a convent on campus and half the professors were sisters - really cool people, actually... and from what I understand, they were the ones who pulled the plug because there was a lot of questionable things going on that did not make sense, like an exec having two, full time secretaries at $45k a year, each. | 05:10 |
| sookie | honestly, i think we fucked up | 05:10 |
| sookie | the best thing we could come up with is: everybody lock yourselves at home | 05:10 |
| sookie | we've set outselves back decades | 05:10 |
| sookie | ourselves* | 05:10 |
| penguin10916 | The ironic thing, however, is that a lot of people aren't even following that and testing is an abysmal joke. The health system I work for, as well as the neighboring ones, aren't getting test results back, from the CDC, in a timely manner. | 05:11 |
| penguin10916 | So they're resorting to self surveys and checklists that could be fudged and/or fail to catch asymptomatic carriers. | 05:11 |
| sookie | i thought cdc was only involved with the public health labs | 05:11 |
| sookie | isn't most testing going through quest/labcorp and pos abbott? | 05:12 |
| penguin10916 | Here in the midwest US, it was county and cdc workers doing the tests in the hospitals until the middle of April. | 05:13 |
| ryouma``` | which ones tried to convert japan? jesuits? | 05:13 |
| penguin10916 | Yep | 05:13 |
| sookie | testing was such a clusterfuck in the u.s. | 05:14 |
| sookie | compared to germany and s. korea | 05:14 |
| penguin10916 | And Jesuits are the violent, terrorist ones, at least from a historical perspective. | 05:14 |
| sookie | jesuits are also the ones who emphasized education | 05:15 |
| sookie | boston college, loyola, fordham, etc | 05:15 |
| sookie | what is notre dame? | 05:15 |
| penguin10916 | Portuguese Jesuits formed a cult in Japan that worked to produce and smuggle weapons with the intent of overthrowing the emperor - which led to mass persecutions and mass distrust of westerners during the edo era and in Europe, at about this time, they were spreading propaganda about England and Germany in an attempt to rile up the continental catholics to take up arms against the protestants while also working to pers | 05:16 |
| penguin10916 | ox in the balkans. | 05:16 |
| penguin10916 | I think Notre Dame is dominican - I'll have to check | 05:16 |
| sookie | wiki says holy cross | 05:17 |
| sookie | georgetown university is also jesuit, right? | 05:18 |
| penguin10916 | Makes sense. There are so many orders it's hard to keep track of them - and some of them are so lose that the sisters/nuns wear normal clothes and live relatively normal lives. Can't help but wonder if the campus is going to be left abandoned and the convent shuttered. | 05:18 |
| sookie | one thing that's amazing is that many private colleges aren't refunding student tuition + board | 05:19 |
| sookie | plenty of class action suits popping up all over because of this | 05:19 |
| penguin10916 | For sure - and honestly, it sucks how room and board are calculated and how there's no lead way with the requirements. I had to pay for it for a semester - meal plan included, even though I only needed to be on the campus two days of the week, as all 18 credits were crammed into those two days from 8am until 9pm at night | 05:21 |
| ryouma``` | ok i just did a cursory web search on the catholic orders. the franciscans seem ok according to my extensive few minutes of knowledge. (says this atheist. :)) | 05:21 |
| ryouma``` | i like the whole treatment of lepers thing | 05:22 |
| penguin10916 | The sisters I had for professors were pretty awesome. The only ones that sucked were an education prof, when I was considering teaching, who told us it was ok to make up a story and lie on tests like the Praxis, and the religious ed professor, who tried to justify indulgences - specifically in a case that I brought up, where a woman I knew was handing over $5k a year, to a priest for blessings for her son who offed him | 05:23 |
| penguin10916 | gh that's worthy of automatic hell in catholicism. | 05:23 |
| penguin10916 | And mind you, her son died about 20 years ago, and she still pays even though she lost everything during the great recession. | 05:23 |
| ryouma``` | um, your messages have lacunae. what client are you using? | 05:24 |
| ryouma``` | penguin10916: | 05:24 |
| ryouma``` | " blessings for her son who offed him 20:23 <penguin10916> gh that's worthy of automatic" | 05:24 |
| penguin10916 | Pidgin | 05:24 |
| penguin10916 | Ok to summarize, womans son comitted suicide. Priest keeps asking for $5k a year for blessings that are effectively useless | 05:25 |
| ryouma``` | we don't know when higher education will open up | 05:25 |
| sookie | that sucks | 05:26 |
| sookie | demanding indulgences is so middle ages | 05:26 |
| sookie | rather, selling indulgences | 05:27 |
| penguin10916 | Yep. Especially when said priest has a crap ton of farmland and investments | 05:27 |
| ryouma``` | what is praxis | 05:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 03:12 UTC: worldnews: Anti-China sentiment around the world is highest since Tiananmen Square Massacre in wake of coronavirus pandemic → https://is.gd/6eOKdI | 05:27 |
| penguin10916 | It's a series of two tests a person has to take and pass to teach. | 05:28 |
| penguin10916 | It covers the general subjects and it doesn't matter if you're wanting to teach grade school or high school - it's requried. | 05:28 |
| ryouma``` | i am interested in the franciscans' attitude toward diseases that are looked down upon | 05:28 |
| ryouma``` | why would it be ok to lie? | 05:29 |
| penguin10916 | That's a good question. | 05:29 |
| penguin10916 | But part of the reason I didn't stick with teaching is because honestly, a lot of public school admin and teachers are horrible. | 05:30 |
| penguin10916 | And the ed majors were hell on earth to deal with - hell, one graduated, teaches grade school during the day and bar tends at night | 05:31 |
| ryouma``` | in the us i can believe it | 05:31 |
| ryouma``` | in japan, teachers are at least in principle held to high moral standards. and looked up to. | 05:31 |
| penguin10916 | Used to be the same here, but morality clauses got struck down in court, outside of major offenses. And even then, tenure protects against all. | 05:31 |
| ryouma``` | they have to be impeccable int heir private lives too | 05:32 |
| penguin10916 | It's crazy how much things have changed - my 4th grade teacher got walked out for getting knocked up by her boyfriend. | 05:33 |
| penguin10916 | And that was back in 2001 | 05:33 |
| ryouma``` | in the us? | 05:33 |
| penguin10916 | Yep | 05:33 |
| penguin10916 | The school found out through the health insurance they provided as well as the cost amounts were easy to recognize, even though the specific information was sealed. | 05:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:28 UTC: Japan sending Fujifilm's flu drug favipiravir to over 40 countries for Covid-19 trials: FujiFilm's flu drug favipiravir (Avigan) has shown to be effective against Covid-19, and Japan is now shipping it to 43 countries for clinical trials. → https://is.gd/Y76Yjr | 05:35 |
| penguin10916 | Oh good- they were talking about that on bloomberg and how this drug could be quite hopeful. I don't think we're going to see a vaccine for a long time. | 05:35 |
| penguin10916 | However, if we come up with treatments that can mitigate the worst case scenarios, then that is almost just as good. | 05:35 |
| ryouma``` | if everybody can tolerate them and they are available to everybody and ... | 05:36 |
| ryouma``` | will they reduce transmission? i would guess not. so the incentives would be a concern in places like the us. | 05:36 |
| penguin10916 | For sure - because I can already tell you that the US isn't going to make the right choices at all. We haven't, so far, and we aren't going to start. | 05:37 |
| penguin10916 | And the fact that regions are forming coalitions to get supplies and that these coalitions will outlast covid19 is concerning. | 05:38 |
| penguin10916 | In other words, yay balkanization. | 05:38 |
| ryouma``` | health insurance will follow those borders? | 05:38 |
| penguin10916 | The next shit show will be the western coalition trying to gain access rights to the great lakes for drinking water. | 05:38 |
| penguin10916 | Well, health insurance isn't a factor. Rather, the states are grouping to collectively bargain for supplies and to work together to hide supplies from federal confiscation. | 05:39 |
| ryouma``` | the us felt like it wanted a civil war but didn't know what the sides would be. i didn't quite imagine that it would be states vs. federal. | 05:39 |
| penguin10916 | Even Maryland, a republican ran state, publicly announced that they had hid their surplus of supplies | 05:39 |
| penguin10916 | Eh, I don't think it'll be states were federal, persey. Rather, the federal will break down, as it did in the Holy Roman Empire and Yugoslavia. | 05:40 |
| penguin10916 | And the end result will be regions fighting with one another for supremacy. | 05:40 |
| ryouma``` | dunno. i didn't mean it literally. | 05:40 |
| ryouma``` | the old joke: the us always does the right thing after trying everything else first :( | 05:40 |
| ryouma``` | you really think it will be the covid coalitions that will do this and not the historical north south deivision or anything like that? | 05:41 |
| penguin10916 | Ugh... so let's see... virus, killer hornets decimating bee populations, food production interruptions, jingoistic attacks on China... are we missing anything yet? | 05:41 |
| penguin10916 | Right - the north south divide was very specific to the mid 1800s | 05:41 |
| ryouma``` | food production? i missd that. | 05:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:35 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global death toll tops 251,000, China reports one new confirmed case: The virus was first reported in China's Hubei province late last year and has rapidly spread around the world since then, infecting more than 3.5 million people. → https://is.gd/cKABIk | 05:42 |
| ryouma``` | i ahve heard it claimed that recent election maps have looked quite like us civil war maps | 05:42 |
| penguin10916 | Before a number of states and regions were developed. In todays world, the west coast, midwest, south east, south west and east coast are quite distinct from one another. | 05:42 |
| ryouma``` | but hav enot verified | 05:42 |
| penguin10916 | They do, to a large extent, but the divides on issues, like resources and cultural attitudes is significantly more specific than the north/south divide. | 05:43 |
| sookie | i've not noticed jingoistic attacks on china | 05:43 |
| ryouma``` | it's still one country though. same language. not quite same religious sects but also not different religions. and so on. it is not like europe. | 05:43 |
| sookie | the criticisms i've seen are directed at the communist party government and are fully warranted | 05:43 |
| ryouma``` | anybody in maine could move to washington or utah or whatever and still fit in | 05:43 |
| penguin10916 | True, but there is a vowel shift happening in midwestern english | 05:43 |
| penguin10916 | They'd have some trouble adapting to Utah. | 05:44 |
| penguin10916 | Maine is known as the least hospitable and most uncharitable state in the country. Utah is the polar opposite of that and the whole, pull yourself up by your boot straps vs always help out others when you can would lead to some tension | 05:44 |
| ryouma``` | utah is like that?????????? | 05:45 |
| ryouma``` | i would think it would be socially conservative to the hilt | 05:45 |
| ryouma``` | but what do i know | 05:46 |
| penguin10916 | Mormonism, as assholeish as it can be, is still a very charitable and neighborly religion, so long as you appear to blend in | 05:46 |
| sookie | back in 1989, when these chinese governemtn massacred students in tianamen square, there was a growing anti-chinese government sentiment across the globe. that time, just like this time, chinese propagandists tried to suggest it was jingositic, racist, and unfair anti-china sentiment being pushed by the west | 05:47 |
| ryouma``` | still i picked pretty distinct states while avoiding the south. consider mass and california. or oregon and indiana. they don't really feel that different do they? | 05:47 |
| ryouma``` | they would not to me. | 05:47 |
| sookie | they didn't think it was just people pissed off that they ran over students with tanks | 05:47 |
| penguin10916 | Oh don't get me wrong - the government of China deserves no sympathy for their handling of the pandemic. However, all of the attack ads I'm seeing on youtube and pluto tv scream nothing more than distractions of the real issues at hand. | 05:48 |
| penguin10916 | And what's worse is that they're coming from both sides, with different intents. | 05:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:40 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: treasurer says 'economic shock dwarfs GFC' – latest update: Eleven more workers at Victorian abattoir test positive for Covid-19 as Treasury estimates $4bn reduction in economic activity for every extra week restrictions remain in place. Follow all the latest news, live → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 05:49 |
| sookie | oh i don't know about that. the world is nuts and you get all kinds of crazies. | 05:49 |
| sookie | anyone with a computer and cam can make a yt vid | 05:49 |
| penguin10916 | Oh - I was referring to the ads youtube makes you watch before a video plays | 05:49 |
| penguin10916 | The ones that are paid for by some group or party. | 05:49 |
| sookie | oh, haven't seen those | 05:50 |
| ryouma``` | huh :( somebody trying to stir up trouble for what purpose? | 05:50 |
| ryouma``` | or is it china distracting? | 05:50 |
| sookie | i tend to skip the b.s. quick. if it pops up on my feeds, i nix quick. | 05:50 |
| penguin10916 | I think in the case of the right wing, they're trying to distract from the failures of the administration to standardize and enforce standards while specific actions and statements from a certain individual have caused many issues. | 05:51 |
| sookie | what i have noticed is a weird trend in liberal media in the u.s. (like msnbc and cnn). they basically don't allow for legitimate criticism of china's government. they quickly claim any such is racist or the like. | 05:51 |
| penguin10916 | Yep - and that's what the left commercials tend to focus on while pointing out that the right has also supported china, at least in the beginning. | 05:52 |
| sookie | which seems particularly strange. | 05:52 |
| penguin10916 | And then there is a third party set of commercials that I wouldn't be surprised if they traced to defense contractors, because they're merely trying to stir up rage and anger | 05:52 |
| sookie | the only thing i can conclude is that comcast and warner media have big financial interest in china | 05:53 |
| sookie | and after all, cnn and msnbc aren't really news outlets, they're the PR arms of Comcast and Warner | 05:53 |
| ryouma``` | so much for graet peace theory | 05:53 |
| penguin10916 | Virtually every player has vested interests in China. Trump and his family have business and patents in China; Biden likely has investments in China, and the same holds true for most corporations. | 05:54 |
| penguin10916 | China is huge, so why limit yourself to 360 million Americans (just a random guess) when there are like a billion Chinese individuals who could be customers? | 05:55 |
| sookie | yes, it's a big market | 05:55 |
| penguin10916 | Even if the average, Chinese consumer is paying $5, that still exceeds the average American consumer who is paying an average of $10 | 05:55 |
| sookie | remember that nba beef? | 05:56 |
| ryouma``` | i heard only a fraction are a real market at this point, the industrial ones | 05:56 |
| sookie | suddenly you had big social activists like curry, kerr, popovich, and lebron 100% mum on china's abuses of hong kong protesters | 05:57 |
| sookie | in fact, they did the opposite. they said morey was wrong to point out the abuses. | 05:58 |
| sookie | why? becuase china is a big source of revenue for these players. it's all about the money. | 05:59 |
| penguin10916 | Yep. It's going to be interesting to see how important money remains as I think the economic woes are only just starting | 06:00 |
| penguin10916 | There were so many issues prior to covid 19 that it wasn't even funny. | 06:00 |
| ryouma``` | why is the stock market so high? | 06:00 |
| sookie | to be honest, look, the trump admin secured some big trade deal with china. with committments by china to buy billions in agriculture products. | 06:00 |
| ryouma``` | it could not have priced in the pandemic 6mo ago | 06:00 |
| sookie | i think if china says "stop blaming us and pushing too much or we'll bail on the deal" | 06:00 |
| sookie | that trump and congress will blink | 06:01 |
| penguin10916 | For sure - and with the ag buys, the amounts stated were completely unrealistic | 06:01 |
| penguin10916 | They exceeded all purchases made over the previous five year span, prior to the trade war | 06:01 |
| sookie | yeah, it was hard to see how farmers could meet these demands | 06:02 |
| penguin10916 | And being that south america is now a major supplier to them, American Ag is never going to go back to what it was especially since there's a huge movement to consolidate farming to just a few, large players rather than a series of smaller ones. | 06:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:54 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Number of positive Covid-19 tests from Melbourne Cedar Meats outbreak rises to 45 → https://is.gd/L4z016 | 06:03 |
| penguin10916 | Ugh... they're saying meat could become hard to find in some areas and cheese is already up 10% | 06:03 |
| sookie | the meat supply chain is already fucked | 06:04 |
| penguin10916 | I should probably buy 50lb of colby this paycheck just so that I have enough to last | 06:04 |
| sookie | even though they've used the dpa to make meat factories critical infrastrucute | 06:04 |
| sookie | if your employees are sick, they're sick | 06:05 |
| sookie | and i think a huge meat plant is currently at a hot spot | 06:05 |
| sookie | maybe in nebraska, i forget | 06:05 |
| sookie | plus we probably have a toilet paper thing going on | 06:05 |
| penguin10916 | There are several meat and dairy plants with infections spreading through | 06:05 |
| sookie | just like you want to do :) | 06:06 |
| sookie | people are hoarding | 06:06 |
| penguin10916 | Dairy is especially vulnerable as you have areas where the cheese is kept in warm, humid environments with plenty of cold and damp, refrigerated areas. | 06:06 |
| sookie | yeah, this is looking bad | 06:06 |
| sookie | you know when i knew it was bad? | 06:06 |
| sookie | when trump was forced to say "the food supply is strong" | 06:06 |
| penguin10916 | Yep - though, 50lb of cheese isn't that much. It's about half a wheel | 06:06 |
| sookie | that's how you know shit is hitting the fan | 06:06 |
| penguin10916 | Yep. And when Tyson began announcing issues because they're massive | 06:07 |
| sookie | and before them smithfield | 06:07 |
| penguin10916 | Yep. And actually, 25lb of cheddar and 25lb of colby. That should last about 3 to 4 months | 06:07 |
| sookie | you're making me hungry | 06:15 |
| penguin10916 | Lol. But yea - I've already seen limits on bread products but weirdly, ramen and canned ravioli and spaghetti at Aldis | 06:16 |
| penguin10916 | Currently, can only buy two cants or grab two things of bagels | 06:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:02 UTC: Coronavirus live news: WHO and Five Eyes reject Chinese lab theory as global deaths pass 250,000: New Zealand records no new cases for second straight day; Italy’s death toll higher than reported; leaders pledge $8bn to fight virus. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/Jcfoey | 06:17 |
| penguin10916 | two cans* | 06:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 04:13 UTC: worldnews: New Zealand records no new coronavirus cases for a second day → https://is.gd/i6mHjU | 06:31 |
| msc386 | This is indeed, good news.; | 06:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:35 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global death toll tops 251,000, China reports one new confirmed case: The virus was first reported in China's Hubei province late last year and has rapidly spread around the world since then, infecting more than 3.5 million people. → https://is.gd/cKABIk | 06:38 |
| ryouma``` | you are freaking me out about food ) | 06:43 |
| ryouma``` | have a really limited diet | 06:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:41 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: Scott Morrison provides update on national cabinet meeting with Jacinda Ardern – latest: Eleven more workers at Victorian abattoir test positive for Covid-19 as Treasury estimates $4bn reduction in economic activity for every extra week restrictions remain in place. Follow all the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 06:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 05:45 UTC: Covid2019: U.S. Treasury To Borrow $3 Trillion In 3 Months To Pay For Pandemic : NPR → https://is.gd/OCYvvT | 07:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:45 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live news: Scott Morrison provides update on national cabinet meeting with Jacinda Ardern – latest: Eleven more workers at Victorian abattoir test positive for Covid-19 as Treasury estimates $4bn reduction in economic activity for every extra week restrictions remain in place. Follow all the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 07:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 05:56 UTC: Coronavirus: Lockdown psychiatric care 'severely disrupted': Isolation is exacerbating psychosis symptoms for some patients, a leading psychiatrist is warning. → https://is.gd/uXcYJq | 08:01 |
| ytlyv9 | https://the-eye.eu/public/Papers/CoronaVirusPapers/ | 08:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:00 UTC: Green stimulus can repair global economy and climate, study says: Projects will deliver higher returns amid Covid-19 crisis than conventional spending, researchers claim → https://is.gd/FFf43O | 08:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:15 UTC: Coronavirus Australia live updates: Ruby Princess doctor said 'we have to stop all cruise ships' – latest news: Eleven more workers at Victorian abattoir test positive for Covid-19 as Treasury estimates $4bn reduction in economic activity for every extra week restrictions remain in place. Follow all the latest [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 08:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:30 UTC: UK coronavirus live: contact tracing app trial begins on Isle of Wight: Follow the latest on the coronavirus outbreak in the UK as the trial begins for a new contact tracing app and the government’s top scientists are quizzed by MPs → https://is.gd/RVkRU8 | 08:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 06:45 UTC: Covid2019: Coronavirus In Pittsburgh: Researcher Killed In Apparent Murder-Suicide Was Close To ‘Making Very Significant Findings’ Related To COVID-19, Pitt Says – CBS Pittsburgh → https://is.gd/aJkOmh | 08:50 |
| ytlyv9 | https://the-eye.eu/public/Papers/CoronaVirusPapers/ | 08:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 06:59 UTC: Coronavirus: France's first known case 'was in December': A Paris doctor says a patient first diagnosed with pneumonia is now confirmed as having had Covid-19. → https://is.gd/ZFq1Tm | 09:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:02 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus Australia live updates: 16th Newmarch House resident dies – latest news → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 09:11 |
| ytlyv9 | https://imgur.com/gallery/nmGxCUA | 09:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 07:11 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Ricercatori documentano la compromissione polmonare in persone all'apparenza non intensamente colpite da Covid-19, in quanto asintomatiche o poco sintomatiche. → https://is.gd/ZIoez6 | 09:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2264 cases (now 3.7 million), +55 deaths (now 252537) since 5 hours ago — Quebec, Canada: +758 cases (now 32631), +75 deaths (now 2281) since a day ago — Singapore: +632 cases (now 19410) since 23 hours ago | 09:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:18 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: contact tracing app trial begins on Isle of Wight → https://is.gd/RVkRU8 | 09:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:35 UTC: Business: UK car sales almost wiped out in April amid Covid-19 lockdown - business live → https://is.gd/2conKg | 09:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 07:45 UTC: Covid2019: Michigan reports highest COVID-19 death rate in the country as protesters demand state “reopen” | Salon.com → https://is.gd/xBQqrw | 09:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:49 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: contact-tracing app trial begins on Isle of Wight → https://is.gd/RVkRU8 | 10:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +10429 cases (now 3.7 million), +120 deaths (now 252657) since 46 minutes ago — Russia: +10102 cases (now 155370), +95 deaths (now 1451) since a day ago — Philippines: +199 cases (now 9684) since 22 hours ago | 10:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 07:58 UTC: Coronavirus: France's first known case 'was in December': A Paris doctor says a patient first diagnosed with pneumonia is now confirmed as having had Covid-19. → https://is.gd/ZFq1Tm | 10:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Starmer calls for national consensus on easing lockdown → https://is.gd/RVkRU8 | 10:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 08:24 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Vegas U.S.A Coronavirus Covid-19 WARNING Tattoo Shop → https://is.gd/s5fdq5 | 10:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:30 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus Australia live updates: 16th Newmarch House resident dies – latest news → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 10:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 08:45 UTC: Covid2019: Winston, First Dog Positive For Coronavirus, Is ‘Completely Fine’ – CBS Boston → https://is.gd/Ix1ylu | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:50 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: government publishes new batch of coronavirus papers from Sage → https://is.gd/RVkRU8 | 11:03 |
| _abc_ | Reading news headlines, Tanzania verified covid tests using anonymyzed goat, sheep and pawpaw fruit "samples", which came back positive. Someone sold them dud tests and or other contamination local to testing or sampling? | 11:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:08 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus Australia live updates: 16th Newmarch House resident dies – latest news → https://is.gd/zdo0Si | 11:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2123 cases (now 3.7 million), +113 deaths (now 252770) since an hour ago — Bangladesh: +786 cases (now 10929) since a day ago — Indonesia: +484 cases (now 12071) since a day ago | 11:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:26 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: government publishes new batch of coronavirus papers from Sage → https://is.gd/RVkRU8 | 11:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 09:41 UTC: Coronavirus: France's first known case 'was in December': A Paris doctor says a patient first diagnosed with pneumonia is now known to have had Covid-19. → https://is.gd/ZFq1Tm | 11:45 |
| pwr22 | https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/report/nhs-covid-19-app-privacy-security-report | 11:47 |
| pwr22 | That's an interesting write up of the UK contact tracing app, by GCHQ I believe | 11:47 |
| pwr22 | From reading it, I'm not sure why they need to collect part of the postcode at all | 11:48 |
| pwr22 | I guess so they can monitor uptake in certain areas? | 11:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:43 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: government publishes new batch of coronavirus papers from Sage → https://is.gd/RVkRU8 | 11:52 |
| _abc_ | pwr22: iirc UK postcodes uniquely identify a location on the map | 11:57 |
| _abc_ | Sometimes even more than a location can be as precise as one road segment | 11:57 |
| blkshp | a full uk postcode generally goes to the road you're on. IE if i addressed a letter 1 Sw2 3rf (for example i don't know if it's a real postcode) you would get to a specific house. | 11:58 |
| blkshp | with just the SW, i can tie you to an area (in this case South West London) | 11:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:53 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Spain's daily death toll stable; Russia sees a further 10,000+ cases: More than 251,000 people around the world have died from Covid-19 and over 3.5 million people have been infected, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/cKABIk | 11:59 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, but if you read the modelling in there they aren't actually tieing devices to a location but matching them against proximity to others | 12:00 |
| pwr22 | <_abc_ "Sometimes even more than a locat"> They're only using the first part which covers thousands of addresses | 12:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 10:01 UTC: Coronavirus: France's first known case 'was in December': The case means Covid-19 may have arrived in Europe almost a month earlier than previously thought. → https://is.gd/ZFq1Tm | 12:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:09 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia sees a further 10,000+ cases; Spain's daily death toll stable: More than 251,000 people around the world have died from Covid-19 and over 3.5 million people have been infected, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/cKABIk | 12:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 10:15 UTC: Coronavirus: How does contact tracing work and is my data safe?: Millions in the UK will soon be asked to download an app that helps to limit coronavirus spreading. → https://is.gd/KGOiZI | 12:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2197 cases (now 3.7 million), +71 deaths (now 252841) since an hour ago — Iran: +1323 cases (now 99970), +63 deaths (now 6340) since 23 hours ago — Afghanistan: +330 cases (now 3224) since 21 hours ago | 12:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:24 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: government publishes new batch of coronavirus papers from Sage → https://is.gd/RVkRU8 | 12:34 |
| PlanckWalk | Wow, a confirmed case in France in December. I suppose that's good news in one sense: it probably didn't spread as fast as first thought. | 12:34 |
| PlanckWalk | Bad news in another sense: it was already in multiple continents before anybody knew what they were dealing with. | 12:36 |
| withorwithout | PlanckWalk: wow, where did you read that? can you share it? | 12:37 |
| PlanckWalk | Link earlier in the channel: https://is.gd/KGOiZI | 12:38 |
| PlanckWalk | Oops, wrong link | 12:38 |
| withorwithout | thanks | 12:38 |
| withorwithout | oh, haha | 12:38 |
| PlanckWalk | https://is.gd/ZFq1Tm | 12:38 |
| withorwithout | Incredible, so it was already spreading in the community | 12:39 |
| sookie | maybe the R0 is a lot lower than people think and there are tons of asymptomatics out there | 12:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:36 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia sees a further 10,000+ cases; Spain's daily death toll stable: More than 251,000 people around the world have died from Covid-19 and over 3.5 million people have been infected, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/cKABIk | 12:41 |
| sookie | and the only reason we're seeing tens of thousands of deaths is because there are millions and millions of infections | 12:42 |
| withorwithout | this is yet to be confirmed, though | 12:43 |
| sookie | also, how sure are we these aren't false positives on the pneumonia case? | 12:43 |
| sookie | have been reading about some really poor performance issues with some tests | 12:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:45 UTC: UK car sales almost wiped out in April amid Covid-19 lockdown - business live: Car registrations plunged 97% last month to their lowest since 1946 last month, as coronavirus restrictions hit demand → https://is.gd/2conKg | 12:55 |
| _abc_ | Well Germany came up with 0.37% deaths so far. Assuming they counte them better than most, and they did a LOT of testing. | 12:57 |
| _abc_ | Working backwards from that one can estimate how many were/are sick in total, possibly including asymptomatics. | 12:57 |
| _abc_ | 0.37% is about 4 times the death rate for flu iirc. | 12:58 |
| sookie | and it spreads faster too, so the deaths are more compressed than the flu | 12:59 |
| _abc_ | It spreads faster AND has a much longer incubation period. | 12:59 |
| _abc_ | Plus crazy symptoms which do not include normal flu symptoms. | 12:59 |
| sookie | you end up with something more deadly than the flu (maybe in the 4x-6x range), more infectious (maybe in the 2x range), and with a higher rate of asymptomatics (making isolation difficult) | 12:59 |
| sookie | also, it predominantly hits the elderly, so if it gets into nursing homes it spread like wildfire and you get the shocking images on tv | 13:00 |
| _abc_ | That is not true, what is true is, there are lots of asymptomatic young. | 13:00 |
| withorwithout | ↑ | 13:01 |
| sookie | what i mean by hit, is hit with death | 13:01 |
| sookie | so when it spreads in a nursing home, you get these crazy death tolls | 13:01 |
| sookie | https://abc7ny.com/nursing-home-homes-new-york-coronavirus-in-ny/6115589/ | 13:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 10:54 UTC: Coronavirus: France's first known case 'was in December': The case means Covid-19 may have arrived in Europe almost a month earlier than previously thought. → https://is.gd/ZFq1Tm | 13:02 |
| _abc_ | So Germany has 6993 deaths so far, call that 7000, and 166,000+ cases total. If we apply 0.37% to 7000 we get 1.89 million cases not 166000 | 13:03 |
| sookie | 1 of every 4 deaths in the u.s.'s biggest hotspot, nyc were in nursing homes | 13:03 |
| _abc_ | Which is approximately 10x the number of registered cases | 13:03 |
| withorwithout | yes, that's what they said yesterday | 13:03 |
| withorwithout | that doesn't mean everybody is getting 10x cases, it depends. Infection slows down if there is not that many people to infect, etc., the usual things | 13:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:02 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: chief scientific adviser says testing capacity should have been expanded sooner → https://is.gd/RVkRU8 | 13:09 |
| aradesh | has the USA really lifted their lockdown? or is it just in certain states? | 13:34 |
| sookie | they're easing the lockdown restrictions little by little in different states | 13:40 |
| VV | 13:44 | |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:40 UTC: Russia sees a further 10,000+ coronavirus cases; Spain's daily death toll stable: More than 251,000 people around the world have died from Covid-19 and over 3.5 million people have been infected, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/cKABIk | 13:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 11:43 UTC: Coronavirus: How does contact tracing work and is my data safe?: Millions in the UK will soon be asked to download an app that helps to limit coronavirus spreading. → https://is.gd/KGOiZI | 13:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2261 cases (now 3.7 million) since an hour ago — Qatar: +951 cases (now 17142) since a day ago — Kuwait: +526 cases (now 5804) since a day ago | 13:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:51 UTC: UK coronavirus death toll surpasses Italy to become the highest in Europe: The U.K. has now surpassed Italy as the worst-hit country in Europe and is second only to the U.S. for Covid-19-related deaths worldwide, according to the official statistics for each country. → https://is.gd/uDbJ5R | 13:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American at 12:00 UTC: What COVID-19 Antibody Tests Can and Cannot Tell Us: A medical personnel tests a man for COVID-19 using a rapid antibody testing kit, at a school converted into a mass testing facility on April 24, 2020 in Manila, Philippines. → https://is.gd/W8daaY | 14:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 12:07 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Teaching Your Kids While You Work: Coronavirus Tips For Working At Home → https://is.gd/Amc6aE | 14:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cases to rise in May; 'Not surprising' virus was in France in December, WHO says → https://is.gd/ym0ycv | 14:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Starbucks to open 85% of US locations this week as cases are set to rise → https://is.gd/ym0ycv | 14:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:25 UTC: Responsibility for coronavirus precautions at airports is a 'game of hot potato': As government authorities and airlines think about coronavirus health screenings, it isn't clear who's in charge of carrying out new policies. → https://is.gd/CaVo1z | 14:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:33 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Starbucks to open 85% of US locations this week as cases are set to rise → https://is.gd/ym0ycv | 14:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3496 cases (now 3.7 million), +399 deaths (now 253252) since an hour ago — Spain: +2260 cases (now 250561), +185 deaths (now 25613) since 23 hours ago — Sweden: +495 cases (now 23216), +85 deaths (now 2854) since 23 hours ago | 14:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:50 UTC: Coronavirus live news: WHO urges countries to investigate suspicious early cases after French find: Austria says easing lockdown has not led to spike in infections; Macron says major foreign travel will be limited this summer; global deaths pass 250,000 → https://is.gd/Jcfoey | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Bavaria opens up biergarten 18. May, restaurants etc 25. May | 14:57 |
| darsie | Do they have to wear masks while drinking beer? :) | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, only during entering and leaving the room | 14:59 |
| darsie | rly? | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 14:59 |
| darsie | odd | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, walk on by other folks sitting there | 15:00 |
| darsie | ok | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | glasses washing mandatory by hot water | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not all that common so far either | 15:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 12:59 UTC: Mappa interattiva covid 19: submitted by /u/Raskolo to r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA → https://is.gd/zM0g8m | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics.htm | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | germany ^^^ RKI based | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tomorrow we should trip the 1000/d on average towards low side | 15:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Starbucks to open 85% of US locations this week as cases are set to rise → https://is.gd/ym0ycv | 15:15 |
| Jigsy | I see the UK now has the worst death toll in Europe. | 15:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:25 UTC: UK coronavirus death toll surpasses Italy to become the highest in Europe: The U.K. has now surpassed Italy as the worst-hit country in Europe and is second only to the U.S. for Covid-19-related deaths worldwide, according to the official statistics for each country. → https://is.gd/uDbJ5R | 15:29 |
| LjL | So we have a French case on December 27... I'm not sure what to think about China's story anymore, I don't knee-jerk "they're lying to us" as it annoys me but something really doesn't check out | 15:32 |
| LjL | *Their* first confirmed case is on December 29... | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wow | 15:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Starbucks to open 85% of US locations this week as cases are set to rise → https://is.gd/ym0ycv | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | would help a lot if the yellow dude wasn't such a ridiculous clown so his bitching against china would have more credibility | 15:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3531 cases (now 3.7 million), +61 deaths (now 253313) since 48 minutes ago — Saudi Arabia: +1595 cases (now 30251) since a day ago — Belarus: +861 cases (now 18350) since a day ago | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but the real world pattern rather is "Trump said it, so it can't be true" | 15:37 |
| LjL | Can't open my mom without resulting in some colorful namecalling that I barely have the energy is the kind of politics talk I don't want, can I | 15:42 |
| bin_bash | if there was a french case on 12/27 then this lockdown was unnecessary | 15:45 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | nothing is necessary except that the laws of physics are obeyed | 15:45 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global clearly shows that the strains affecting the US came via europe. | 15:47 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | new preprint today about d614g taking over | 15:48 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | and by "today" i mean 5 days ago i guess. | 15:49 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | from europe in early february. | 15:50 |
| Biep[m] | A good heuristic in general, but at times it leads to false results. | 16:00 |
| Biep[m] | !cases world | 16:01 |
| CovBot | In World there have been a total of 3,675,419 cases as of 2020-05-05 13:44:00 UTC. Of these 2,211,558 (60.2%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 1,210,534 (32.9%) have definitely recovered and 253,327 (6.9%) have died. | 16:04 |
| oxalis | What is the source of the data for the offloop site? | 16:18 |
| LjL | mostly Covidly.com now | 16:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:09 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Covid-19 second wave may be avoided with track and trace, says UK science chief → https://is.gd/JGKnrJ | 16:18 |
| LjL | that science chief must be clever, nobody had thought of that before | 16:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Starbucks to open 85% of US locations this week as cases are set to rise → https://is.gd/ym0ycv | 16:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:24 UTC: (news): NYC Mayor de Blasio says Trump is putting politics first in coronavirus response: 'He's a pure hypocrite' → https://is.gd/hJfv0x | 16:33 |
| aradesh | is he a republican mayor? democrat? | 16:41 |
| aradesh | ah, democrat | 16:41 |
| aradesh | wow, he's tall | 16:41 |
| aradesh | 1.96m | 16:41 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: A patient diagnosed with pneumonia near Paris on 27 December actually had the coronavirus, his doctor has said. (10087 votes) | https://redd.it/gdtyr4 | 16:42 |
| aradesh | possible but seems unlikely | 16:43 |
| aradesh | unless he'd literally just arrived in from china | 16:43 |
| aradesh | LjL: china's data seems fairly ok from the start of january at least. before that, they were some coverup but, bear in mind they had to actually discover what was killing their people, etc | 16:44 |
| LjL | aradesh, what of the WHO's "there is no evidence of human-to-human" when it was clearly spreading | 16:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Starbucks to open 85% of US locations this week as cases are set to rise → https://is.gd/ym0ycv | 16:47 |
| aradesh | dunno. when were they saying that up until? | 16:47 |
| aradesh | on january the 23rd, china put a city the size of new york in complete lockdown so... it was pretty clear to everyone at that point that it was pretty serious | 16:50 |
| aradesh | seems the first and last time the WHO said that was in a tweet on january the 14th, at that point china had only 59 confirmed cases | 16:52 |
| aradesh | and they were just reporting what china had told them... so it was extremely early days in terms of understanding it | 16:52 |
| aradesh | ii guess the first half of january could still have been covered up by china but sounds extremely unlikely we had any in europe in december | 16:54 |
| LjL | aradesh, evidently not clear enough, since we allowed it to reach us anyway ;( | 16:55 |
| LjL | i mean, with hindsight, knowing about these early cases, it may have reached us anyway | 16:55 |
| LjL | but we did nothing to prepare | 16:55 |
| LjL | aradesh, 59 cases is extremely unlikely not to be human to human transmission though | 16:55 |
| aradesh | i'm sure that by the end of january, all of the science advisors were screaming at the governments | 16:55 |
| aradesh | but they mostly just twiddled their thumbs for the next month or two before really doing anything | 16:56 |
| LjL | aradesh, not true, ours prepared some good speeches saying how kind China had been in sacrificing Wuhan and buying us time to react | 16:57 |
| aradesh | but countries were really sluggish around the world to enact any kind of measures to prevent the virus arriving or spreading | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>but we did nothing to prepare<< well, that's a recurring pattern even when those in charge had the info about what was ahead of us | 16:58 |
| aradesh | south korea had less time to react, and still the same info from china and the WHO, but they actually took it seriously from the start | 16:58 |
| aradesh | exactly | 16:58 |
| aradesh | i really believe that it doesn't matter what information the western governments were told and when, they were never going to do anything until it seemed utterly unavoidable. they're all too worried about damaging the economies | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I heard from a politician or consultant or the like: >>for politics to take actions, it needs two things: the pictures in TV and a fatality in own country<< | 17:00 |
| aradesh | the scientific advisors who had seen the data from china and other countries by the end of january would have known exactly how potentially dangerous the virus was, and i'm sure they told all the relevant people | 17:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:57 UTC: (news): NYC officials alarmed with rise in rare disease affecting some kids with coronavirus, Mayor de Blasio says → https://is.gd/HgKY25 | 17:01 |
| aradesh | reminds me of the great london smog in the 50's. apparently the meteologists somehow knew it was coming, and they informed the government, but they didn't do anything to prepare until it got really bad, and thousands died | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...and what he meant was, the politicians literally can't act without those prerequisites to support their actions and justification for those | 17:03 |
| aradesh | 12,000 died apparently | 17:03 |
| aradesh | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London | 17:03 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | hindsight is 20/20. preparing for things has a real cost, and if we prepare for everything, a large proportion of those preparations will have been premature and for naught. a more pragmatic course of preparation will leave us preparing only for some things, things which are deemed most fit for preparation. that inevitably means that some things which should have been prepared for are not. it's | 17:07 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | an inevitable consequence, and one which we find acceptable. | 17:07 |
| aradesh | yes, but in this case it is fairly clear that the leadership was very lacking. especially when we see how other countries handled it very well | 17:07 |
| aradesh | we can see inaction from governments right up until mid march in many cases | 17:08 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | in these instances, of course, in hindsight, everyone will agree that this is something which should have been prepared for. but that doesn't mean that there was some failure in policy that led to this situation. | 17:08 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | or, doesn't _necessarily_ mean that, at least. | 17:08 |
| aradesh | western countries had plenty of warning from having seen it in other countries. we had no excuse. | 17:08 |
| aradesh | china shut down wuhan after 500 confirmed cases, new york waited until 10,000 | 17:08 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | aradesh: it turns out we had warning about a different, milder strain. | 17:08 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | there's increasing evidence that the strain which is ravaging europe and the US originated in february, in europe. | 17:09 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | nobody had plenty of warning about that. | 17:09 |
| aradesh | but we knew by then that CV needed taking seriously | 17:10 |
| aradesh | at a time when we could have done, and had some success. | 17:10 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | and the comparison you're making isn't without flaws. figures for "confirmed cases" in wuhan, particularly early on. | 17:10 |
| aradesh | misinformation from the WHO and china is drastically overwhelmed by the inept leadership and inaction of western governments. | 17:10 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | there's a massive discrepancy between "confirmed case" numbers in wuhan and results of phylogenetic analysis of samples obtained there. | 17:10 |
| aradesh | it's tempting to think that's not the case, as we have every day the idea hammered that it's someone elses fault. | 17:11 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | i think even discussing "fault" in this context is a dangerous waste of resources. | 17:11 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | apportioning blame will not save a single life from covid-19. | 17:12 |
| aradesh | i suppose time will continue to tell. but i wouldn't be surprised if we eventually learn how science advisors begged their politicians to take action to no avail | 17:12 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | if there's an interest in political solutions to improving lab safety or restricting various avenues of research, those are discussions for the future. people are dying today. | 17:13 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | there are always countless parties lobbying the government to take some action, as well as countless parties lobbying the government to take an opposite action. that's rarely evidence of anything other than a wide array of opinions on any nontrivial subject. | 17:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:10 UTC: Coronavirus live news: WHO urges countries to investigate suspicious early cases after French find: Austria says easing lockdown has not led to spike in infections; Macron says major foreign travel will be limited this summer; global deaths pass 250,000 → https://is.gd/Jcfoey | 17:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:18 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Grocery prices are rising, while many Wendy's restaurants run out of beef → https://is.gd/ym0ycv | 17:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2452 cases (now 3.7 million), +207 deaths (now 253520) since an hour ago — US: +2007 cases (now 1.2 million), +191 deaths (now 70147) since an hour ago — Maryland, US: +709 cases (now 27117), +73 deaths (now 1390) since a day ago | 17:23 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | thank god i had wendys the other day | 17:24 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | i'm good for a while now | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | time for a McD visit | 17:29 |
| ubLXI | on the vascular question, MedCram spends 26 minutes covering basic biochemistry leading to their view of why SARS2 knock-out of ACE2 should do harm beyond the lungs: | 17:32 |
| ubLXI | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj2vB_VITXQ | 17:32 |
| Brainstorm | ubLXI: From www.youtube.com: Coronavirus Pandemic Update 63: Is COVID-19 a Disease of the Endothelium (Blood Vessels and Clots)? - YouTube | 17:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2508 cases (now 3.7 million) since 20 minutes ago — Chile: +1373 cases (now 22016) since a day ago — Egypt: +388 cases (now 7201) since 22 hours ago | 17:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 15:36 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Charles Ornstein su Twitter: "'It makes no sense': Feds consider relaxing infection control in US nursing homes https://t.co/3fDuCofzCc via @usatoday" → https://is.gd/ZSvvIg | 17:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:40 UTC: Coronavirus live news: WHO urges countries to investigate suspicious early cases after French find: Austria says easing lockdown has not led to spike in infections; Macron says major foreign travel will be limited this summer; global deaths pass 250,000 → https://is.gd/Jcfoey | 17:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Grocery prices are rising, while many Wendy's restaurants run out of beef → https://is.gd/ym0ycv | 17:57 |
| ubLXI | and MedCram's video 65 picking up the theme where 63 left off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzx8LH4Fjic | 18:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:58 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Dominic Raab to give briefing after Scottish government warns against reopening schools → https://is.gd/RVkRU8 | 18:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2468 cases (now 3.7 million), +742 deaths (now 254310) since 34 minutes ago — Italy: +1075 cases (now 213013), +236 deaths (now 29315) since 23 hours ago — US: +670 cases (now 1.2 million), +426 deaths (now 70587) since 34 minutes ago | 18:08 |
| _abc_ | Why are abbatoirs not working again? Last time I looked at a working abbatoir the workers were not crowded into each other. | 18:09 |
| bin_bash | what? | 18:10 |
| bin_bash | what country are you referring to _abc_? | 18:11 |
| _abc_ | Beef shortage. USA apparently. | 18:11 |
| bin_bash | most slaughterhouses are working, some meat processing facilities had to shut down due to the high number of infected workers | 18:11 |
| LjL | someone told me that among their group of doctors / hospital workers, they get themselves antibody tested with a cheap test, it was 15 of them, but only one was positive, whose partner had had overt COVID. the other 14, despite working at a hospital, were all negative | 18:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:14 UTC: Trump says he will wear coronavirus mask at Honeywell factory if it is required: Trump has refused to wear a mask for coronavirus protection in recent weeks despite federal guidance calling for Americans to wear one when in public amid the Covid-19 pandemic. → https://is.gd/h0rkBU | 18:18 |
| ubLXI | then Trump used DPA to mandate operation of meat plants, relaxed OSHA guidelines, seemingly by saying they should not be enforced, and in effect further by moving to prevent meat industry workers for claiming unemployment even if they cite safety concerns | 18:20 |
| ubLXI | a conversation taking a dim view that policy direction: https://theconversation.com/trumps-order-to-keep-meat-plants-open-mistakes-meat-shortage-for-a-food-shortage-137688 | 18:21 |
| yuriwho | wasn't DHS rounding up illegals as per Trumps orders at meat plants for deportation just before COVID-19? | 18:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +7927 cases (now 3.7 million), +880 deaths (now 255190) since 21 minutes ago — United Kingdom: +4406 cases (now 194990), +693 deaths (now 29427) since 23 hours ago — Turkey: +1832 cases (now 129491), +59 deaths (now 3520) since 22 hours ago | 18:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Grocery prices are rising, while many Wendy's restaurants run out of beef → https://is.gd/ym0ycv | 18:25 |
| ubLXI | don't know, but wouldn't be astonished | 18:25 |
| yuriwho | ubLXI: it was a rhetorical question | 18:26 |
| Mr_Pink | I've thought this possibly was the case for a bit since we're seeing more ppl who were infected before we realized and Europe was getting absolutely wrecked while SF is not as bunched together but it shares a ton of similarities. Interesting. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-05/mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-more-contagious-than-original | 18:29 |
| yuriwho | Mr_Pink: that story is likely false | 18:34 |
| Mr_Pink | why? | 18:34 |
| Mr_Pink | They've been tracking mutations since the start | 18:34 |
| yuriwho | but if there is a new scientific peer reviewed publication in a respectable journal, there are no know functionally important mutations of SARS-CoV-2 that do not involve deletions or insertions | 18:35 |
| yuriwho | known | 18:36 |
| yuriwho | according to the coronavirologists | 18:36 |
| withorwithout | yuriwho: the change in the 614 location of the S protein from D codon to G appears to be dominant for some reason, it's not crazy to think that's more infectious, but yeah still not conclusive | 18:38 |
| yuriwho | withorwithout: we just have no experimental evidence for that yet..... it could be true | 18:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 16:37 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Coronavirus: France's first known case 'was in December' - BBC News → https://is.gd/XYqUgt | 18:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from New Scientist at 17:30 UTC: Covid-19 news: Europe's first case may have been in December: The latest coronavirus news updated every day including coronavirus cases, the latest news, features and interviews from New Scientist and essential information about the covid-19 pandemic → https://is.gd/MKRVd8 | 18:46 |
| rajrajraj | Is this real | 18:47 |
| rajrajraj | https://twitter.com/i/events/1257654915561713666 | 18:47 |
| _abc_ | I find this interesting and probably the right explanation so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Bn8jsGI54 | 18:56 |
| _abc_ | LjL: not the 1st time this comes up but it is somewhat clear that one needs to have had some light form of covid to show an immune response. | 18:57 |
| _abc_ | Which may mean that people who did not get it at all may be at risk until they get the light form. No proof but looks like it ? | 18:58 |
| jacklsw | now it is more theories and studies | 19:09 |
| withorwithout | yuriwho: in case you haven't missed it https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v1.full.pdf | 19:10 |
| withorwithout | have missed it | 19:10 |
| yuriwho | the authors look credible.... that will get peer reviewed with extreme vetting | 19:11 |
| yuriwho | as trump says... | 19:12 |
| yuriwho | sorry, couldn't help myself | 19:12 |
| withorwithout | Actually there were some people discussing that mutation a few days ago in this channel, mefistoteles is not present, I think tinwhiskers was also present in the discussion | 19:14 |
| nobel | at this rate, seems will be 1 million US deaths, till at 50% infections nationwide | 19:15 |
| withorwithout | wonder if they knew about that paper before hand | 19:15 |
| nobel | covid will be 'seasonal' every year | 19:15 |
| nobel | change the name to 'the trump flu' | 19:16 |
| ubLXI | the picture is much broader than Trump, nobel | 19:20 |
| ubLXI | 'trump flu' is as reductive as kungflu | 19:20 |
| ubLXI | if you're going to criticise trump, do so substantively | 19:21 |
| LjL | i guess europe and the US getting a strain that's more contagious would make the apparent fact early infections were around in January or even December more "compatible" with a later explosion | 19:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3902 cases (now 3.7 million), +81 deaths (now 255271) since an hour ago — US: +3183 cases (now 1.2 million) since an hour ago — New York, US: +2442 cases (now 329816) since an hour ago | 19:23 |
| nobel | ubLXI, fairly apparent his incompetence has led to the worse management and hence its possible seasonality , | 19:24 |
| nobel | for countries that had resources to manage it | 19:25 |
| nobel | unless you want to debate that Ivanka and Kushner should be on any management panel | 19:26 |
| ubLXI | i won't disagree with you, nobel, but here we can in large degree take all that as read, and save the scroll from interminable noise | 19:27 |
| LjL | how does what Trump did affect seasonality elsewhere? the virus is still rampant in Europe even without the US | 19:29 |
| nobel | ubLXI, yes, just my little rant, and sadness that the the deadly crisis, is normalized by the media | 19:29 |
| nobel | I want them to challenge his baseless lies to his face | 19:30 |
| ubLXI | aaaaaaargh | 19:38 |
| ubLXI | i suppose if trumpflu took off as a meme as readily as did kungflu, some damage would be done to his reelection chances | 19:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2999 cases (now 3.7 million), +414 deaths (now 255685) since 20 minutes ago — US: +2669 cases (now 1.2 million), +387 deaths (now 71148) since 20 minutes ago — New Jersey, US: +2261 cases (now 131606), +322 deaths (now 8273) since 17 hours ago | 19:39 |
| nobel | unless the goal is herd immunity , they need more families of the dead on the news | 19:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:38 UTC: New York Gov. Cuomo rebukes Trump, says coronavirus 'doesn't pick Democrats or Republicans': Cuomo, a Democrat whose state is the U.S. epicenter for the outbreak, sharply criticized the partisan rhetoric from Trump, who said he's opposed to sending federal emergency aid to states. → https://is.gd/jq9kHB | 19:41 |
| pyna | trump is blocking fauci from testifying from congress because he can, since he has been proven immune to rule of law | 19:44 |
| nobel | next is no State or City support, unless payroll (social security) tax cut and/or Corporation immunity for forcing workers back to work | 19:45 |
| pyna | not even bothering to pretend there's some legal or security reason | 19:45 |
| nobel | famous old newspaper headline was "Feds to NY City: 'drop dead'" being re-released | 19:46 |
| nobel | sadly literal connotations with Covid | 19:46 |
| pyna | seems minor, but feels like a big moment if it's not shut down, since it's a practical application of his immunity | 19:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 17:44 UTC: Coronavirus live news: WHO urges countries to investigate suspicious early cases after French find: Austria says easing lockdown has not led to spike in infections; Macron says major foreign travel will be limited this summer; global deaths pass 250,000 → https://is.gd/Jcfoey | 19:55 |
| nobel | US talks about nationalism, when its incompetency is going to mean US citizens are seeders of the Cosmopolitan Phage | 20:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 18:07 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The New York Times su Twitter: "Breaking News: The White House is considering winding down the coronavirus task force as the crisis rages on. It’s not clear if it will be replaced. https://t.co/gpFtI2TsYT… https://t.co/TQ88Qinmab" → https://is.gd/Zkt7lj | 20:09 |
| nb | umm, WTF? how can they wind down the task force......... | 20:10 |
| nobel | nb, how could they defund WHO in a crisis? Transmission Accomplished, thanks for watching Fox News | 20:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:20 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Tributes paid after nurse and his parents die after contracting Covid-19 → https://is.gd/IhIqt7 | 20:23 |
| sookie | pyna: they're blocking fauci from testifying before the house which is a partisan rat's nest | 20:26 |
| sookie | dr. fauci will be testifying before the senate though, in case you want to hear him | 20:26 |
| sookie | so this is factually wrong "<pyna> trump is blocking fauci from testifying from congress" | 20:27 |
| bin_bash | tehcnically it isnt. he's not being allowed to testify in front of both congressional bodies | 20:29 |
| sookie | doesn't matter. you can't say he's blocked from congress if he's going to be going to one of its chambers. | 20:30 |
| sookie | if you want to be accurate, you say he's blocked from testifying before the house | 20:30 |
| bin_bash | well actually trump stated that he can't testify in front of congress (either body) without approval, so it's still not really untrue since he doesnt have the ability to make the decision himself. trump could decide to not allow him before the senate as well | 20:32 |
| bin_bash | as of now he's been approved to testify in front of the senate though | 20:33 |
| sookie | he confirmed today that fauci will be going in front of the senate | 20:33 |
| sookie | and it is untrue | 20:33 |
| bin_bash | 133259 <bin_bash> as of now he's been approved to testify in front of the senate though | 20:33 |
| sookie | <bin_bash> [stuff] so it's still not really untrue [more stuff] | 20:33 |
| bin_bash | sookie: you're nitpicking the wrong thing. the problem is that he can't testify without approval from the whitehouse. | 20:34 |
| bin_bash | that's an actual problem | 20:34 |
| sookie | that's how it works | 20:34 |
| bin_bash | it's stupid partisan bullshit and could be considered obstruction | 20:35 |
| bin_bash | i mean shit, trump said "you cant go to the house because theyre haters" | 20:35 |
| sookie | no, it's called separation of powers and it's part of this quaint thing called the constitution | 20:35 |
| bin_bash | he doesnt care about the truth, he cares about his popularity rating | 20:35 |
| bin_bash | sookie: i'm very familiar about separation of powers, i dont think you are though if you think excluding the house on partisan reasons is just fine. | 20:36 |
| sookie | everyone in the executive works for him. and he gets to decide who will testify before congress | 20:36 |
| bin_bash | idgaf who deos it, it's partisan bullshit | 20:36 |
| sookie | you're right about partisanship but wrong about who is responsible for it. it's the house that's partisan | 20:36 |
| sookie | didn't you see them just recently, distract potus from focusing on coronavirus with some fake impeachment bs? | 20:36 |
| bin_bash | ok im not going to continue this conversation | 20:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:33 UTC: Coronavirus live news: WHO urges countries to investigate suspicious early cases after French find: Austria says easing lockdown has not led to spike in infections; Macron says major foreign travel will be limited this summer; global deaths pass 250,000 → https://is.gd/Jcfoey | 20:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +4481 cases (now 3.7 million), +662 deaths (now 256347) since an hour ago — Brazil: +1536 cases (now 110156), +118 deaths (now 7485) since 16 hours ago — France: +1089 cases (now 170551), +330 deaths (now 25531) since 23 hours ago | 20:39 |
| ubLXI | "he gets to decide who will testify" smells too much like descent into authoritarianism to me | 20:42 |
| sookie | it's a different system from what you're accustomed to | 20:42 |
| sookie | you all have a parliamentary system, so parliament forms government. | 20:42 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | the impeachment wasn't fake, but please let's stay on topic. | 20:43 |
| Arsanerit | not in Libya | 20:43 |
| bin_bash | lmfao https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/496133-trump-wont-allow-fauci-to-testify-before-house-because-its-a-bunch-of | 20:43 |
| sookie | in the u.s. the executive branch is separate and equal in authority to congress. there is a tension built in by design. the framers wanted the executive and congress to be in tension. to check each others power. | 20:43 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | (and if you think the impeachment was fake then it's not clear why you're complaining about it) | 20:43 |
| Arsanerit | In Libya the parliament rules in one city and the government in another and neither have control where the other sits. | 20:43 |
| bin_bash | i dont understand the mental gymnastics trump supporters have to do | 20:43 |
| bin_bash | but it's lol | 20:43 |
| bin_bash | and also sad | 20:43 |
| Arsanerit | Where were you last Pluterday? | 20:43 |
| sookie | and in the case of a stalemate. say the partisan democrats in the house want to subpoena on of trump's people to have their little on-camera clown show and their moment on msnbc, they can. and if the trump admin says "no" then the 3rd branch (the courts) settles the dispute. | 20:46 |
| sookie | that's the way it's meant to work. it's not whatever congress says goes. it's 3 branches, all checking each other. | 20:46 |
| ubLXI | and the house has not yet shown any sign of subpoenaing Fauci? | 20:48 |
| sookie | not that i'm aware of | 20:48 |
| sookie | but they can if they so desire | 20:48 |
| ubLXI | how many democrats in the senate? | 20:48 |
| sookie | and then if said subpoena is ignored, they could take their dispute to the courts. | 20:48 |
| sookie | 233 democrats and 196 republicans | 20:49 |
| Arsanerit | what does this have to do with covid-19? | 20:49 |
| ubLXI | in the senate? | 20:49 |
| sookie | in the senate it's like 52/48 or so | 20:49 |
| ubLXI | hmm | 20:50 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit for congress | 20:50 |
| Arsanerit | NoImNotNineVolt: where? | 20:50 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | does it matter? :P | 20:50 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | i support your platform of on-topic discussion. | 20:50 |
| ubLXI | ok, Arsanerit, sookie, me, back to topic we go | 20:50 |
| Arsanerit | NoImNotNineVolt: yes, there's no institute called congress where I live, we have Gemeinderad, Kreistag, Landtag, Bundestag, and Europaparlement. | 20:51 |
| Arsanerit | But anyway. | 20:51 |
| Arsanerit | Why are restrictions loosening when we are nowhere near either a vaccine or treatment and don't have a track&trace app widely deployed? | 20:51 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: a congress is a national legislative body. | 20:51 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: it sounds like you have at least one congress where you live, but we're speaking english, and i don't know those words you used :P | 20:52 |
| Arsanerit | what's different now compared to 4 or 8 weeks ago? | 20:52 |
| Arsanerit | Situation for Germany, but it seems many countries are doing the same. | 20:52 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: financial need | 20:52 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | financial need has increased. | 20:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2743 cases (now 3.7 million), +113 deaths (now 256460) since 20 minutes ago — India: +2689 cases (now 49400), +110 deaths (now 1693) since 20 minutes ago — Dominican Rep.: +122 cases (now 8480) since 2 hours ago | 20:54 |
| Arsanerit | When will DP-3T <https://github.com/DP-3T> be ready and why does the "organisation" or github only have 2 members, the android app only 5 contributors <https://github.com/DP-3T/dp3t-app-android-ch>? Why aren't hundreds if not thousands of smart people contributing to this? | 20:55 |
| sookie | Arsanerit: restrictions where? | 20:55 |
| Arsanerit | sookie: Germany, France, Spain, Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, among other places. | 20:55 |
| sookie | because at least my understanding, the severe lockdowns were meant as a pause, to flatten the curve (to not overwhelm hospitals) and to give us time to develop testing, possible therapies, stock up on masks, and design standard of care practices | 20:56 |
| sookie | lockdowns were never meant to be permanent or semi-permanent things | 20:57 |
| Arsanerit | I'm even getting travel ads again. "from Friday May 15th we are ready to welcome you again at our hotel (...) Enjoy a holiday in Ticino and rediscover our beautiful region (...) Stays of 4 nights or more - 20% discount" | 20:57 |
| Arsanerit | sookie: I thought we needed to buy time until we had improved tracing, but I don't know why we don't have this privacy-protecting tracing app yet. | 20:58 |
| tinwhiskers | And to give us time to solidify management plans | 20:58 |
| Arsanerit | Isn't this just going to bring a second wave now? | 20:58 |
| tinwhiskers | Easing restrictions was always part of the stop/start plan | 20:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:52 UTC: The coronavirus has mutated and appears to be more contagious now, new study finds: The new coronavirus strain began spreading in Europe in early February before migrating to other parts of the world, including the U.S., becoming the dominant form of the virus across the globe by the end of March, researchers at the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/07u0Ao | 20:58 |
| sookie | tracing of some kind, not necessarily an app that monetizes all your personal info | 20:59 |
| Arsanerit | Easing restrictions under what conditions, though? | 20:59 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | sookie: none of those things have happened yet | 20:59 |
| Arsanerit | sookie: How can DP-3T monetise any personal info? It doesn't collect any. | 20:59 |
| tinwhiskers | The idea is that you ease restrictions to allow some economic activity then impose them again if things start getting out of control | 20:59 |
| sookie | in the u.s. there seems to be a move by local governments (meaning states) to hire armies of contact tracers | 20:59 |
| sookie | so the point is that you ease restrictions but have the capacity now to quickly do containment | 21:00 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | news of the d614g mutation is terrifying. | 21:00 |
| Arsanerit | Based on what information do those human contact tracers trace contacts? | 21:00 |
| sookie | rather than only mitigation which is what the first wave was. | 21:00 |
| tinwhiskers | NoImNotNineVolt: what's that about? | 21:00 |
| sookie | the cdc has surveillance systems in place to monitor where there are outbreaks, and then contact tracers are deployed | 21:00 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | tinwhiskers: the spike mutated in europe in february, resulting in a worse strain. that's the strain that's become dominant in europe and US. | 21:00 |
| Arsanerit | Do they really have the capacity to quickly do containment? How can they possibly know the people I was close to in the past two weeks, should I be tested positive? | 21:00 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: they'll interview you. | 21:01 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh. Umm. What makes you say it's worse? | 21:01 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | tinwhiskers: it's more successful in the darwinian sense. it's become the dominant strain. | 21:01 |
| Arsanerit | NoImNotNineVolt: "There was someone on the train last week", "someone passed very close to me by bike", if I even remember. Does that actually work? | 21:01 |
| sookie | worse stain in what sense, more deadly? | 21:01 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | tinwhiskers: layperson media description: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-05/mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-more-contagious-than-original | 21:01 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | sookie: no. | 21:02 |
| sookie | oh, more infectious | 21:02 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: contact tracing in New Zealand doesn't use any app, just a lot of people conducting interviews with every person who is confirmed and their contacts | 21:02 |
| sookie | yeah, then i agree, an evolutionary improvement (from the virus's perspective) | 21:02 |
| Arsanerit | tinwhiskers: how does the person being interviewed know their contacts? | 21:02 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: no, it doesn't. it's better than nothing, though. | 21:02 |
| Arsanerit | NoImNotNineVolt: better than nothing, but worse than a dp-3t app? | 21:02 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: they have a memory | 21:02 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | well, it's not "worse" from a privacy point of view. | 21:02 |
| Arsanerit | NoImNotNineVolt: why not? | 21:04 |
| sookie | another evolutionary improvement we *should* see is that covid becomes less lethal. the virus doesn't want to kill its hosts. | 21:04 |
| Arsanerit | sookie: I thought we'd already seen that (strain that spread the world less lethal than the original one in Wuhan) | 21:04 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | because a dp-3t app has more potential to violate the privacy of others than a limited human memory and even more limited ability to identify people. | 21:05 |
| sookie | Arsanerit: i thought they had suggested otherwise | 21:05 |
| Arsanerit | NoImNotNineVolt: how does dp-3t have the potential to violate privacy? | 21:05 |
| sookie | that the strain that circulated in europe was more lethal than the one in wuhan. | 21:05 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: by identifying connections between people where they wouldn't otherwise be identifed. | 21:05 |
| Arsanerit | NoImNotNineVolt: The app doesn't know with what persons I've been connected, but the human contact tracer would ask exactly that. | 21:06 |
| sookie | famous last words | 21:06 |
| sookie | "the app is safe, guys, your privacy is protected. BELIEVE US" | 21:06 |
| Arsanerit | sookie: There is no "believe us", it's opensource. | 21:06 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: i don't think we have the same understanding of the app you're referring to. | 21:06 |
| sookie | not the backend | 21:06 |
| Arsanerit | sookie: it's all on github | 21:07 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | it's really not terrible, but there are inherent privacy concerns with _any_ effective contact tracing regimen. | 21:07 |
| Arsanerit | I would feel more comfortable with an app sharing codes that can't be traced to any individual people, than with telling a human contact tracer of all the contact I may have had, some of which may be embarrassing, immoral, or illegal. | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +4876 cases (now 3.7 million), +177 deaths (now 256637) since 22 minutes ago — Peru: +3817 cases (now 51189), +100 deaths (now 1444) since 23 hours ago — US: +1037 cases (now 1.2 million), +76 deaths (now 71304) since 22 minutes ago | 21:09 |
| tinwhiskers | In NZ the contact tracing has access to airline, and other transport information, police data, and pretty much any other info necessary. If you've visited a shop the shop will be contacted to get the transactions records to identify the people who were there at the time. They probably have a number of other ways of funding those people too. It takes vast numbers of people but it's very effective. You don't need to contact 100% of casual | 21:11 |
| tinwhiskers | contacts to be effective. | 21:11 |
| tinwhiskers | *finding | 21:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Deputy chief scientist: We need to get to grips with coronavirus care home deaths → https://is.gd/hyhLEg | 21:12 |
| tinwhiskers | By and large we don't really care about the privacy issues during an emergency and there's nothing of a slippery slope here that is of any concern to us | 21:13 |
| sookie | in the case of the u.s. there are privacy protections written in to the u.s. constitution. and as civil libertarians are quick to remind people: the constitution doesn't go away in times of emergency. | 21:15 |
| sookie | privacy rights are maybe a bit more entrenched in american life than some other places | 21:15 |
| tinwhiskers | An app will be a great way to support contact tracing but you do it without one so not having one is no excuse | 21:15 |
| Arsanerit | tinwhiskers: Ok. | 21:15 |
| Arsanerit | sookie: Privacy rights are VERY entrenched in Germany. | 21:15 |
| tinwhiskers | sookie: you say that like it's a good thing | 21:15 |
| Arsanerit | Many if not most people here use cash for most payments, because of privacy concerns. | 21:16 |
| rmonten[m] | Arsanerit: agreed, human traces are probably less trustworthy than a well-designed app, but a small flaw in the app may lead to massive data breach. I guess that's why (some of) the cryptographers designing these apps and frameworks are so insistent on privacy | 21:16 |
| Arsanerit | Germany is a particular case because it has recent memory of a surveillance state in one part of the country. | 21:16 |
| tinwhiskers | USA is going to going to suffer badly because of "mah freedom" and yet we will be no less free. | 21:16 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: some people use cash here but mostly it's electronic now | 21:16 |
| Arsanerit | My impression is that German privacy rights are much stronger than US privacy rights, but I am not an expert. | 21:17 |
| tinwhiskers | We just don't have concerns about our politicians like you guys do because here the people actually control the government, not the other way round. We are the least corrupt, most transparent country in the world. | 21:18 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | US doesn't have privacy rights :P | 21:18 |
| sookie | i don't think personal freedom is something worthy of ridicule. so "mah freedom" seems like a weird comment to make. | 21:20 |
| sookie | but i guess if you don't have a tradition of freedom, then freedom might seem like a weird thing. | 21:20 |
| Arsanerit | The word "freedom" means very different things to different people. | 21:20 |
| tinwhiskers | It's not. It's just that you go the wrong way about getting it and make a lot of fuss about it while we just go about doing it right | 21:20 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | and it's more an illusion of freedom than a tradition, in the states. | 21:21 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | we have the highest incarceration rate in the world, by far. | 21:21 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | if we're not a police state, nobody is. | 21:21 |
| Arsanerit | tinwhiskers: I don't know who "we" are in your (satirical?) comment about people controlling the government. Where in the world are you talking about? Iceladn? | 21:21 |
| sookie | it's not surprising to me | 21:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Arsanerit: New Zealand | 21:21 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | but we're allowed to open carry into our state capitols, so we feel free :P | 21:22 |
| sookie | new zealand doesn't have a deep respect for freedom | 21:22 |
| Arsanerit | tinwhiskers: Ok, then it may not be irony :) | 21:22 |
| sookie | they have a government censor after all | 21:22 |
| sookie | how many western democracies do you know that have an official government censor in 2020? | 21:22 |
| sookie | hint: new zealand is one of them | 21:22 |
| Arsanerit | Is it true that in part of the US you can go to the public viewing area in your capitol and watch parliament debate while you are carrying an automatic machine gun? | 21:22 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: that's technically true, but practically not true. | 21:23 |
| sookie | the person is called the "Chief Censor" | 21:23 |
| Arsanerit | sookie: New Zealand probably has a different understanding of freedom from what you mean. | 21:23 |
| Arsanerit | No freedoms are absolute, freedoms are always limited by other fundamental rights. | 21:23 |
| sookie | if New Zealand's Chief Censor doesn't like a certain book, that book is banned from the shelves. | 21:23 |
| tinwhiskers | The US government model is totally flawed with all the lobbying crap. Americans will protect their flawed system to their dying breath yet complain endlessly about it. | 21:23 |
| Arsanerit | The EU also has tons of lobbying crap :( | 21:23 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: automatic weapons are extremely highly regulated in the US. pre-1986 are grandfathered in, newer ones are illegal. since no new pre-86 guns can be made, their limited number makes them incredibly valuable. it's $10k for a working legal machine gun, at least. | 21:23 |
| rmonten[m] | It's really hard to compare freedom in the US and Europe. I have lived on both sides and the funny thing is both seem to feel they have more freedom than the other | 21:24 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: as such, legal automatic weapons aren't used in crime, etc. | 21:24 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | they're basically the domain of collectors and shooting ranges near las vegas :P | 21:24 |
| Arsanerit | Germany still doesn't have a speed limit, this is no longer due to lobbying from the automobile club (which dropped its objection), but from the car industry which fears it will sell less fast porches and mercedeses. | 21:24 |
| Strantrickt[m] | #deepwebtr:matrix.org | 21:24 |
| Arsanerit | NoImNotNineVolt: Ok, but if I had one, could I carry it to the public viewing area of the parliament? That was the detail I was more amazed about. | 21:25 |
| Arsanerit | Wherever there is power, there is lobbying. | 21:25 |
| sookie | NoImNotNineVolt: in the US, automatic weapons have been banned for civilian use since 1986. | 21:26 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: most states don't allow open carry, and even of the ones which do, most don't allow firearms in the capitol / courthouse / statehouse. | 21:26 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: although some do, and this makes for quite a spectacle. | 21:26 |
| tinwhiskers | sookie: yes we have a censor who determines what is allowed to be said and displayed publicly, in schools, etc. I bet you do in the states by another name. There's no law against owning any particular book but yes it's possible a book could be banned from sale in nz shops. You can still buy it privately. | 21:26 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | sookie: that's not exactly accurate. automatic weapons manufactured after 1986 have been banned for civilian use. | 21:26 |
| sookie | tinwhiskers: scary. remind me to never take privacy advice from someone who lives in a country with a chief censor. | 21:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:17 UTC: UK news: UK coronavirus adviser Prof Neil Ferguson resigns after breaking lockdown rules → https://is.gd/ZJIxDi | 21:27 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | sookie: if you have a pre-86 machine gun, you can still use it as long as you have your tax stamp. | 21:27 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | sookie: even if you're a civilian and even if it's after 1986. | 21:27 |
| tinwhiskers | Lol. We have far more true freedom than the perceived freedom in your police state | 21:27 |
| sookie | uh huh | 21:27 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | sookie: there's also FFL categories that might allow one to deal in post-86 nfa firearms | 21:27 |
| tinwhiskers | Lol | 21:27 |
| Arsanerit | I am personally much freeer in Europe than in the USA. | 21:28 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | much like with any area of law, "it's complicated" is the most accurate summation :P | 21:28 |
| sookie | "we have more freedom here than in your countries. oh and by the way you're not allowed to read that book." | 21:28 |
| sookie | :) | 21:28 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | Arsanerit: that says more about how you see freedom than about europe/usa, though. | 21:29 |
| Arsanerit | NoImNotNineVolt: Of course. | 21:29 |
| Arsanerit | NoImNotNineVolt: Which is why saying that country X is freeer than country Y is not very meaningful. | 21:29 |
| Arsanerit | To me it's more important that I have the option of taking the train to go to another city, than that I can pay less taxes or carry a firearm in public. | 21:29 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | i'm fascinated by the US Libertarian party. i consider myself a libertarian of sorts (a libertarian socialist), but my views are almost diametrically opposed. | 21:30 |
| Arsanerit | Having the car as the only option to mobility is antithetical to freedom for me, but reality in the US not only in rural areas but also in many suburbs. | 21:30 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | goes to show how broad the spectrum of views are regarding "liberty". | 21:30 |
| sookie | NoImNotNineVolt: have your read some classical liberal treatises? | 21:30 |
| Arsanerit | However, few people seem to use that interpretation of freedom. | 21:30 |
| Arsanerit | bye | 21:30 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | my wife did philosophy undergrad, so yes :P | 21:30 |
| sookie | locke, ricardo, smith | 21:31 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | classic libaralism and empiricism. good times. | 21:31 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | but really, that's a separate issue. | 21:31 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | today, when i look at what limits my liberty the most, it's probably finances. and i'm not poor. | 21:31 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | but not just me, if you look around at everyone, what's the big constraint on their life choices? | 21:32 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | why are they doing what they're doing and not something else? probably money. | 21:32 |
| dunnp | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_books_banned_by_governments#New_Zealand | 21:32 |
| sookie | that might be a very superficial way to look at it though | 21:32 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | it might be. but as an engineer, i favor the simplest explanation. | 21:32 |
| sookie | for example, if you go to uganda, your wealth might be determined at birth. with no upward mobility. | 21:33 |
| sookie | in other places you might have meritocracies, where you're not destined into a class or caste. | 21:33 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | sure, and maybe you'll pursue personal improvement, to move up in life... to get more money :P | 21:33 |
| sookie | so if you consider your wallet your main constraint to be free, then you have to look to see what other things affect that | 21:33 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | not necessarily. | 21:34 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | i'm only interested in identifying the proximate constraint. and i think it's money. | 21:34 |
| tinwhiskers | The censor's office also makes rules about offensive words that can't be used on public tv. For example you can't say the c word but you can say wank | 21:34 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | so, if we agree on that, then you might argue that underlying structural reforms are the best way of making sure people have more money | 21:35 |
| tinwhiskers | I think there are similar rules on tv in the states? | 21:35 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | but it still turns to a discussion that's kinda framed around socialism, how to get more money to the people who have the least :P | 21:35 |
| iz | yeah, the list of bad words in the us that you can't say come directly from a george carlin routine :b | 21:36 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | but us Libertarians don't believe money is the primary constraint. they believe it's government regulation. | 21:36 |
| tinwhiskers | Heh | 21:36 |
| iz | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words | 21:36 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | that the big obstacle between most people and achieving their goals isn't a lack of money, it's too much regulation. | 21:36 |
| tinwhiskers | So what enforces the forbidden words in us tv? | 21:37 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | fcc. | 21:37 |
| iz | yeah | 21:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Omg censorship! | 21:37 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | and are they still doing that? | 21:37 |
| iz | yup | 21:37 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | because i've heard a lot more vulgarity on tv over the years | 21:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Just because we have the word censor in the role name doesn't make it any different | 21:37 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | on network tv, specifically. | 21:37 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | pretty sure fcc doesn't regulate cable, only broadcast media. | 21:37 |
| iz | so there are "vulgar" words that aren't actually on that list which are used sometimes | 21:38 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | pretty sure i never heard 'ass' on tv in the 80s though | 21:38 |
| iz | yeah, exactly | 21:38 |
| iz | they didn't use "ass" just because it seemed vulgar | 21:38 |
| tinwhiskers | We can also use the c word and other forbidden words on tv programmes with adult classification | 21:38 |
| iz | but now in more modern times, they use it sometimes to be edgy | 21:38 |
| tinwhiskers | It's just forbidden in public because in New Zealand we want a government agency who will prevent aashats from writing "cunt" where children might see it, so we have one. If we didn't want it or thought they were actually a problem for freedom we would just vote them out of existence because here the people actually have control. | 21:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:34 UTC: Coronavirus live news: top UK adviser Prof Neil Ferguson resigns over lockdown breach: Austria says easing lockdown has not led to spike in infections; Macron says major foreign travel will be limited this summer; global deaths pass 250,000 → https://is.gd/Jcfoey | 21:41 |
| iz | i had a radio show in college, and we had to use a 10 second delay buffer that we could dump incase we accidentally said a bad word or played a song w/ a bad word.. i guess that is pretty common at most broadcast stations | 21:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah. True | 21:42 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Austria Has 90% Drop in Coronavirus Cases After Requiring People to Wear Face Masks (10342 votes) | https://redd.it/ge03eh | 21:46 |
| Urchin | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2oPk20OHBE | 21:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:45 UTC: The coronavirus has mutated and appears to be more contagious now, new study finds: The new coronavirus strain began spreading in Europe in early February before migrating to other parts of the world, including the U.S., becoming the dominant form of the virus across the globe by the end of March, researchers at the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/07u0Ao | 21:48 |
| tinwhiskers | iz: btw, what government authority (if any) lies behind film/tv classification in the US (that's the primary role of the department in NZ run by the chief censor - the actual department is called Office of Film and Literature Classification, which isn't nearly as scary) | 21:53 |
| iz | hmm.. idk the answer to that one | 21:53 |
| iz | i just know the other one due to my radio experience | 21:54 |
| tinwhiskers | Ok. No worries | 21:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2708 cases (now 3.7 million), +245 deaths (now 256882) since 51 minutes ago — US: +2612 cases (now 1.2 million), +244 deaths (now 71548) since 51 minutes ago — Illinois, US: +2122 cases (now 65962), +176 deaths (now 2838) since a day ago | 21:54 |
| dunnp | tinwhiskers: MPAA - private company | 21:55 |
| tinwhiskers | Ah. Ok but they have backing in law? | 21:56 |
| tinwhiskers | Or do they just ask nicely? | 21:56 |
| dunnp | the film studios are members | 21:56 |
| tinwhiskers | Ah | 21:56 |
| blkshp | tinsoldier: random question, can you unload modules of tinsoldier on the fly? | 21:56 |
| blkshp | tinwhiskers: even ;) | 21:57 |
| tinwhiskers | blkshp: yeah | 21:57 |
| blkshp | can you unload !tell in ##chat | 21:57 |
| tinwhiskers | Sure | 21:57 |
| tinwhiskers | I'll just have to get on a pc | 21:57 |
| blkshp | not urgent | 21:57 |
| blkshp | it's the first time it's been used and it was me :D | 21:57 |
| blkshp | but otherbot does it too | 21:58 |
| dunnp | fwiw US ranks far behind NZ in the press freedom index | 21:58 |
| blkshp | (and sorry for the interruption) | 21:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:50 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Pence says White House looking to wind down taskforce as death toll passes 70,000 → https://is.gd/N4RG4z | 22:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2783 cases (now 3.7 million), +232 deaths (now 257114) since 45 minutes ago — US: +2190 cases (now 1.2 million), +221 deaths (now 71769) since 45 minutes ago — Massachusetts, US: +1184 cases (now 70271), +122 deaths (now 4212) since a day ago | 22:24 |
| withorwithout | are we done with the "whose country has a larger penis convo?" :P | 22:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:08 UTC: Coronavirus live news: top UK adviser Prof Neil Ferguson resigns over lockdown breach: Austria says easing lockdown has not led to spike in infections; Macron says major foreign travel will be limited this summer; global deaths pass 250,000 → https://is.gd/Jcfoey | 22:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:49 UTC: Trump administration: Ousted US government scientist files whistleblower complaint over Covid-19 concerns → https://is.gd/7ib1Aj | 22:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:04 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Pence says White House looking to wind down taskforce as death toll passes 70,000: California’s Gavin Newsom says ‘we’re not going back to normal’ US deaths represent more than a quarter of global coronavirus deaths Trump says Fauci can’t testify before House because it is a ‘set-up’ → https://is.gd/N4RG4z | 23:12 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2780 cases (now 3.7 million), +255 deaths (now 257369) since an hour ago — US: +2747 cases (now 1.2 million), +254 deaths (now 72023) since an hour ago — California, US: +1598 cases (now 58303), +55 deaths (now 2364) since an hour ago | 23:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:23 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Nate Silver su Twitter: "US daily numbers via @COVID19Tracking: Newly reported deaths Today: 2,527 Yesterday: 912 One week ago (4/28): 2,198 Newly reported cases: T: 22K Y: 21K 4/28: 24K Newly reported tests: T: 259K Y: 232K 4/28: 201K Positive test rate: T: 9% Y: 9% 4/28: 12%" → https://is.gd/d1hGmE | 23:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:25 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Pence says White House looking to wind down taskforce as death toll passes 70,000: California’s Gavin Newsom says ‘we’re not going back to normal’ US deaths represent more than a quarter of global coronavirus deaths Trump says Fauci can’t testify before House because it is a ‘set-up’ → https://is.gd/N4RG4z | 23:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:38 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Queen wishes Australia well as Ruby Princess inquiry continues – latest updates → https://is.gd/bnytbI | 23:47 |
| ryouma``` | gavin was misleading. ca and az are opening too early. | 23:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:50 UTC: Trump does not wear coronavirus mask at Honeywell factory: President Donald Trump did not wear a mask as a coronavirus precaution during a visit Tuesday to a Honeywell factory in Arizona that is producing millions of N95 masks. → https://is.gd/2hAfHT | 23:54 |
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