| nixonix | it seems there is 2-3 studies (and one for sars-1), that show that viral load has correlation to severity. that sounds only obvious, but it may have some value estimating the outcome, or at least likelihood with some certainty, so it could be useful biomarker | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| nixonix | some of them call that "initial viral load", although the term has already been used to mean the amount of virions the person that gets infected, catches when the actual infection happens. and that is only speculation, as far as i know, would that matter or not | 00:04 |
| ryouma | is it because it reduces the immune load, or reduces the time it takes for immune to build b/t cells, or what? | 00:05 |
| nixonix | so "initial viral load" in some of those studies didnt mean that, but viral load when it was first measured when the pt was admitted to hospital or something | 00:05 |
| ryouma | abstract said it was for triage and aggressiveness | 00:06 |
| nixonix | then there is also other speculation, like what about if you get the infection first in nasopharynx instead of straight to lungs, would that be better because the immune response has more time before the symptoms get serious. not proved i think, but a reasonable guess there is a difference | 00:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Hawaii, US: +27 cases (now 789) since 23 hours ago — Colorado, US: +286 cases (now 30187), +5 deaths (now 1643) since 23 hours ago — New Mexico, US: +107 cases (now 10260), +8 deaths (now 464) since 23 hours ago — US: +756 cases (now 2.3 million), +23 deaths (now 121369) since 33 minutes ago | 00:07 |
| Arsanerit | gn | 00:08 |
| nixonix | ryouma: some of immune response reacts very quickly, like under a minute, some of it takes days. so if it takes eg 5 days before it goes to lungs, then adaptive parts of immune systems have learned to target the virus before lung infection, i suppose (with more or less success) | 00:14 |
| nixonix | maybe it also replicates slower if its in nose and/or throat. at least compared to it if its in all of them | 00:15 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm not convinced that "initial viral load" affecting severity is necessarily obvious. That entirely depends how long each generation of the virus is. If a generation takes only, say 5 minutes, then the number of virions in the body after 1 day is practically unlimited and there is some other factor limiting the total number than unbounded exponential replication. If a generation takes, say 30 minutes then you'd very much expect initial | 00:25 |
| tinwhiskers | viral load to be very important. But since I have no idea of how long a generation takes this is not obvious to me. | 00:25 |
| nixonix | i lean to the same, especially when there doesnt seem to be much talk around it. except that with high inidital dose theres more chances for it to infect (also) lungs, i suppose | 00:28 |
| tinwhiskers | yet, if it multiplies quickly enough then you reach some maximum number of virions in short order regardless of initial dose. | 00:29 |
| ryouma | what does one do to prevent spreading to lungs? | 00:29 |
| tinwhiskers | hope | 00:29 |
| bin_bash | lol | 00:30 |
| bin_bash | how're you holding up, tinwhiskers | 00:30 |
| nixonix | speculation, and even a trial, of using some of those nasal sprays. and then some expert speculation on gargling to be potentially beneficial (sic!) | 00:30 |
| nixonix | oh theres been even trials, it seems https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200618/Throat-gargling-may-be-beneficial-during-the-COVID-19-pandemic.aspx | 00:31 |
| nixonix | %title | 00:31 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.news-medical.net: Throat gargling may be beneficial during the COVID-19 pandemic | 00:31 |
| bittersweet | If you are too lazy to read, it suggests gargling with tap water or saline. What about listerine or betadine gargle. That's what I use as the Listerine has alcohol in it we know the virus doesn't like and betadine throat gargles designed for sore throats? | 00:47 |
| bittersweet | I heard someone say virus replicates every 4 hours but I am not sure where they get that figure but I wondered if you gargled with Listerine every 4 hours if you'd be killing anything before it had a chance to replicate much. | 00:49 |
| nixonix | this has something related to that viral load discussion, but imo pretty obvious https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200605/Antiviral-effects-for-COVID-19-Early-is-better.aspx | 00:50 |
| bittersweet | but the person who suggested 4 hours also said saline and doing it up your nose too which I haven't tried. | 00:50 |
| tinwhiskers | hrm. every 4 hours means only 6 generations in one day, which seems quite slow and would mean initial viral load would likely be very important | 00:52 |
| LjL | anyway, if the virus is inside your cells, replicating or preparing to replicate, alcohol won't kill the virus unless it's strong enough to kill the whole cell | 00:52 |
| LjL | so any gargling would only be effective on "stray" virus that hasn't entered cell holes yet | 00:52 |
| LjL | and that is independent of replication time | 00:53 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 00:53 |
| LjL | it's basically like washing/sanitizing your hand: you do it after every exposure, except it's not very feasible to do it after every breathe | 00:53 |
| LjL | (or even to gargle anything in the street) | 00:53 |
| bittersweet | yeah but when you go to the bathroom every few hours you can have a small bottle of gargle in your bag | 00:56 |
| ryouma | water or salt were studied. idk if the others were studied. | 00:57 |
| tinwhiskers | that seems mostly like a feel-good measure to me but it might slightly reduce your chance of getting infected or slightly reduce the initial viral load. I don't think it will do anything to "prevent spreading to lungs" once you're already infected, which is what I thought the querstion was. | 00:57 |
| bittersweet | but also that orginal idea of having some zinc lozengers | 00:58 |
| oriba | "Throat gargling may be beneficial during the COVID-19 pandemic" maybe making it worse, because patients who first had infections in the throat, before the lung, already had started to activate the immune system, when the virus came to the lunbgs - in opposite to directly affecting the lungs, means: no partial immunity (or activation of immune system) before infecting the lungs. | 00:58 |
| oriba | thats what I have in mind from what a german virologists said in a podcast, some months ago | 00:58 |
| tinwhiskers | interesting | 00:59 |
| bin_bash | oriba: are you saying they said gargling made it wolrse? | 01:02 |
| bin_bash | worse** | 01:02 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 01:02 |
| LjL | we'd all like to have something we can chew on that stops the virus from getting in us | 01:02 |
| LjL | but the closest thing there's any shred of evidence of is called masks | 01:02 |
| LjL | and i see WAY too few people wearing them | 01:02 |
| LjL | so let's start from there | 01:02 |
| bin_bash | yeah | 01:02 |
| bittersweet | to get covid-19 you have to inhale approximately 1000 virus particles for it to have a very good chance of infecting you. for that to happen you need to be near an infected person's airstream for more than five minutes apparently, I heard someone say this. | 01:03 |
| LjL | i heard someone say many things | 01:03 |
| oriba | lol | 01:03 |
| tinwhiskers | reality doesn't work in absolutes like that | 01:03 |
| LjL | but i'm always i bit wary when i hear arbitrary numbers like "1000" or "5 minutes" | 01:03 |
| bittersweet | I immediately think depends on many factors like if they sneeze on you and stuff yes true no absolutes | 01:03 |
| tinwhiskers | the more virions you're exposed to the higher the risk. The longer you are in contact the higher the risk. The closer you are the higher the risk. There is no cut-off point that you are safe. You should just try to minimise the risk factors. | 01:04 |
| tinwhiskers | but as very rough guidelines they are still kinda useful I guess | 01:05 |
| tinwhiskers | the problem is that people seem to think that if they just stay in a room for 10 minutes instead of 15 they are not at risk | 01:06 |
| bittersweet | Just about noone wears masks around here in Australia where I am it's not very acceptable but the case numbers are pretty low really. I suppose if they were higher people would be wearing them more. | 01:06 |
| tinwhiskers | I think it's another case of failed messaging that we can improve upon next time | 01:06 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: 100% agreed. people think "oh it was only 5 minutes of a guy coughing, im fine | 01:08 |
| bin_bash | " | 01:08 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 01:08 |
| Jigsy | %cases Brazil | 01:09 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In Brazil, there have been 1.0 million confirmed cases (0.5% of the population) and 48954 deaths (4.7% of cases) as of an hour ago. 10.7 million tests were performed (9.7% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.6% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 8.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Brazil for time series data. | 01:09 |
| nixonix | yeah drosten talked about it in a podcast that i saw (as a transcripted video), that perhaps better to get the infection in mouth/throat before lungs. but actually we discussed about it a few weeks earlier, at the neighbor chan | 01:09 |
| nixonix | drosten called it a scientific idea | 01:10 |
| nixonix | i think this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaTDtOjb8jw | 01:11 |
| _io_ | did yuriwho stop coming on irc | 01:11 |
| nixonix | ah that youtube vid was pretty old. so maybe drosten was first, not sure | 01:15 |
| Jigsy | _io_: They're in the nicklist. | 01:15 |
| ryouma | that is disturbing --- 15:58 <oriba> thats what I have in mind from what a german virologists said in a podcast, some months ago | 01:15 |
| ryouma | also, with a known exposure it would be good to ahve somethign that takea potential already infection and p-revents it from getting into lungs or being worse --- 16:02 <LjL> we'd all like to have something we can chew on that stops the virus from getting in us | 01:16 |
| LjL | bittersweet, to hell with "acceptable", this is not about showing boobs in public | 01:17 |
| LjL | this is about wearing a face mask against a pandemic | 01:18 |
| LjL | if it's not acceptable let them call the police | 01:18 |
| ryouma | oriba: i assume youa re asying 1) you are exposed 2) your nose gets infected 3) you gargle or do zinc lozenges or c lozenges 3) that reduces your immune buildup 4) that makes it worse? | 01:18 |
| ryouma | if showing (or not showing) boobs in public stopped the pandemic i'd favor it | 01:19 |
| bittersweet | I know but literally people might doubt your sanity. I sat with someone for a while i knew i would be talking to for some time so i wore a nose and mouth covering I think they thought I was sort of crazy but really I am young and female so the risk is higher for them than me. | 01:19 |
| LjL | yes bad comparison, forget it | 01:19 |
| oriba | ryouma: I just wrote what I had in mind from the drosten podcast. | 01:19 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma: well there may be a potential clinical treatment that might do that but in terms of behaviour or topical things like gargling that seems unlikely to have any effect because it's moving through your bloodstream at that point. | 01:19 |
| _io_ | wearing a mask and "showing boobs" should both be totally acceptable for sure . | 01:19 |
| oriba | not mutually exclusive, yes | 01:19 |
| oriba | if the girl forget her mask, she needs to use the tshirt... | 01:20 |
| LjL | maybe. i'm just saying, "showing boobs" is something we can leisurely debate about and in the meanwhile i guess social custom will continue to prevail. face masks are an URGENT necessity. but as i said, bad comparison so let's just drop the boobs part and focus on the part where if you wear a mask and someone thinks you're crazy, it's on them, not you | 01:20 |
| _io_ | one is alot more important then the other. it's just about priorities. | 01:21 |
| tinwhiskers | I'd quite like to focus on boobs :-( | 01:21 |
| _io_ | yeah I'm finding it distracting too LjL. | 01:21 |
| oriba | using tshirt is better than no mask... so showing the boobs - at least potentially - may help against the panemic | 01:22 |
| tinwhiskers | \o/ | 01:22 |
| LjL | why the fuck did i bring it up g... actually i better not bring up god | 01:22 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 01:22 |
| oriba | lol too | 01:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Idaho, US: +128 cases (now 3871) since 23 hours ago — Colombia: +3059 cases (now 63276), +90 deaths (now 2045) since 18 hours ago — Brazil: +5655 cases (now 1.0 million), +136 deaths (now 49090) since an hour ago — Texas, US: +845 cases (now 106589), +7 deaths (now 2168) since an hour ago | 01:23 |
| danielp3344 | Hi all | 01:23 |
| bittersweet | hi danielp3344 | 01:23 |
| danielp3344 | Working outside in the hot weather while wearing a mask sucks | 01:23 |
| danielp3344 | Also this mess has made buying a car really difficult | 01:24 |
| danielp3344 | but tomorrow I'm going to try | 01:24 |
| bittersweet | is it compulsory to wear one where you are danielp3344 ? | 01:25 |
| LjL | see if you find a car + truckload of sanitizer package deal | 01:25 |
| danielp3344 | bittersweet: I see a lot of people not wearing them, a lot of stores have signs saying everyone has to wear a mask but somehow some people get away without it... | 01:26 |
| nixonix | maybe they have mask categories on those adult sites now, but how should i know if they have or not | 01:27 |
| danielp3344 | I always wear one though | 01:27 |
| danielp3344 | LjL: you know I'm still curious how alcohol damages the virus | 01:27 |
| bittersweet | I can imagine outside doing strenuous work and wearing a mask would sort of suck | 01:27 |
| danielp3344 | bacteria makes more sense, but viruses are weird | 01:27 |
| danielp3344 | bittersweet: yes, rather much | 01:27 |
| LjL | danielp3344, afaik it has a fat layer outside, but it's not really something i've looked into | 01:28 |
| nixonix | A solution of 70% ethanol is more effective than pure ethanol because ethanol relies on water molecules for optimal antimicrobial activity. Absolute ethanol may inactivate microbes without destroying them because the alcohol is unable to fully permeate the microbe's membrane | 01:33 |
| _io_ | i want yuriwho back guys. sigh. | 01:34 |
| _io_ | wow nixonix I didn't realize that | 01:36 |
| oriba | alcohol alone is also not enough... you need mechanics, for example at least some pressure (rubbing hands) | 01:37 |
| tinwhiskers | I thought alcohol alone is enough. | 01:37 |
| oriba | wiping with a cloth or so | 01:37 |
| oriba | no, it needs the wiping | 01:37 |
| _io_ | wow that's god to know too | 01:38 |
| LjL | i also thought alcohol was enough, this matters in cases like when masks are re-used after spraying an alcohol solution on them (although, yes, i'm aware that's not an optimal method) | 01:38 |
| oriba | I also thought alcohl alone is enough, but it isnt | 01:38 |
| tinwhiskers | I sceptical | 01:38 |
| nixonix | soap is efficient. with water too | 01:38 |
| LjL | soap and water are not always available | 01:39 |
| tinwhiskers | motion may speed it up but it acts very quickly. You sure you're not mixing up the mechanical action when using soap? | 01:39 |
| oriba | but the soap also is used with mechanics: you wash the hands. | 01:39 |
| nixonix | but you cant drink it. or you shouldnt. so theres that | 01:39 |
| LjL | yes, i definitely believe that about the soap | 01:39 |
| _io_ | there is nothing u can ingest that would kill it without hurting you or your esophagus or gut flora I think. | 01:39 |
| oriba | only outside usage | 01:40 |
| _io_ | i mean obviously your esophagus is part of you | 01:40 |
| _io_ | just ya | 01:40 |
| tinwhiskers | it also matters in sterilising medical equipment as is done is some poorer countries. There isn't any wiping or other mechanical action involved when using alcohol to sterilise things. | 01:40 |
| LjL | i get a bit silently mad when i think of how many people probably hoarded hand sanitizer only to use it... while at home, in place of just washing their hands, instead of carrying it around and using it after touching something at risk in public places, or before/after touching their masks, which is when hand sanitizer makes sense | 01:40 |
| ryouma | alternated theory i heard int he context of 70 vs 99 in ophtalmology practices was that 99 evaporates quickly --- 16:33 <nixonix> A solution of 70% ethanol is more effective than pure ethanol because ethanol relies on water molecules for optimal antimicrobial activity. Absolute ethanol may inactivate microbes without destroying them because the alcohol is unable to fully permeate the microbe's membrane | 01:40 |
| oriba | I have isopropanol and for a while just sprayed it on some surfaces (e.g. beer bootle, from which I drink directly). Then someone pointed me to the fact that mechanics also is needed | 01:41 |
| oriba | since then I use a handkerchief to wipe | 01:41 |
| nixonix | same with ipa, best as 70% | 01:41 |
| oriba | yes | 01:41 |
| oriba | but 100% is better than nothing ;-) | 01:41 |
| oriba | AFAIK the 70% is for bacteria | 01:41 |
| oriba | not sure if its general | 01:41 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: do you have any reference for that. I'm quite sceptical | 01:42 |
| LjL | 100% may be better than nothing, but it's not very hard to add a bit of water to make it 70%... O.o | 01:42 |
| nixonix | it was studied for sars-2. the result was around 70, i think slightly over | 01:42 |
| nixonix | both ethanol and ipa | 01:42 |
| oriba | but the cold beer bottle has water on the surface, when picking it from the freezer | 01:42 |
| _io_ | u should wipes the bottle before u put in the freezer not after u take it out | 01:43 |
| _io_ | ideally | 01:43 |
| LjL | the beer bottle should have been sanitized *before* putting it in the freezer, probably | 01:43 |
| oriba | when using the soap, the water is there already... but does nto taste good ;-) | 01:43 |
| oriba | _io_: also an idea. | 01:43 |
| oriba | thought about that, but was too lazy | 01:43 |
| _io_ | hehe | 01:43 |
| oriba | give the virus a chance to stay in the cold for a while :-) | 01:43 |
| oriba | the likelyhood for having a virus on the bottle is not high | 01:44 |
| ryouma | you know this but in case anybody does not, cold preserves virus | 01:44 |
| oriba | but as drinking directly from the bottle, I feel better with that procedure | 01:45 |
| oriba | the highest likelyhood to get an infection is via air | 01:46 |
| nixonix | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus#Origins | 01:46 |
| nixonix | %title https://www.genengnews.com/topics/omics/when-dna-and-rna-worlds-collide/ | 01:47 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.genengnews.com: When DNA and RNA Worlds Collide | 01:47 |
| bittersweet | I noted that some clusters seem to be around the place at Meatworks / slaughter houses and i wondered if it might have to do with the people working in what I am guessing is refrigerated room temperatures? | 01:49 |
| bittersweet | if it turns out that cold weather does help it spread that is | 01:49 |
| _io_ | likely bittersweet | 01:53 |
| bittersweet | maybe it like it just above freezing. wuhan was pretty cold when it started there and Northern Italy big outbreak in slaughterhouse in Germany and a bit of an outbreak in a meatworks in Victoria. I don't really know | 01:53 |
| bittersweet | https://www.9news.com.au/world/coronavirus-germany-almost-700-infected-at-slaughterhouse/fd44554f-b5aa-49d1-bef0-940bcc6f7a18 | 01:54 |
| oriba | freezing temps plus bad working conditions.... no masks, to close to the next worker... | 01:54 |
| bittersweet | but yeah then there have been big spreads in places not very cold as well | 01:54 |
| oriba | ...and maybe lots of materials that may contain the virus | 01:55 |
| oriba | just spreading it around by the work | 01:55 |
| oriba | bittersweet: yes. but some conditions being helpful in spreading does not mean there are no other conditions that also help it | 01:55 |
| _io_ | the cold is just one of the factors. that make it worse. | 01:56 |
| LjL | temperature should at least be considered together with humidity | 01:56 |
| LjL | then sunlight is also often mentioned | 01:56 |
| LjL | we'll find out at some point, if we're not dead in the process | 01:57 |
| oriba | the bad thing: the company in germany did make the spread, but could go on, and the schools had to close... wtf | 01:57 |
| LjL | "In expensive treatments for cancer and other diseases, the health service officially limits what it will spend to postpone a death: 30,000 pounds, or about $37,000, for each year of full “quality” life provided to a patient." | 01:59 |
| LjL | "nice" https://web.archive.org/web/20200619235828/https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/world/europe/britain-coronavirus-triage.html | 01:59 |
| _io_ | ouch | 01:59 |
| nixonix | can you add the missing part from your own wallet? | 02:00 |
| LjL | more likely you can elect to pay the whole thing by going to a private clinic | 02:00 |
| _io_ | "sorry that's a $75 k procedure and you'd only be expected to live another 500 days of "full quality" life and maybe ten years after that would be. you know. reduced quality. so bye." | 02:01 |
| nixonix | how about just the missing part | 02:01 |
| LjL | nixonix, i don't know, but doubtful | 02:04 |
| ryouma | that would go against the remaining (exoteric i.e. made for public acceptance) ethos of nhs as a resource for all ukers probably | 02:06 |
| exoTeric | hi | 02:07 |
| ryouma | op-ed in uk in ercent years has at times (a few y ago) been explicitly anti-sick and anti-disabled, to the point of being reminiscent of 1930s german propaganda, and at times has done a good job of emulating that rhetoric; policy imlpements such things at more than just nice and nhs but other parts of establishment although parliament and science (and the un) are starting to push back slowly. | 02:10 |
| nixonix | maybe those denied the treatment could have the death camp in a park near palace of westminster or something | 02:10 |
| Nyseth[m] | Test | 02:10 |
| oriba | LjL: you once added the ZBMed-link I gave you, to your link list. The link has vanished. Use this one now: https://www.zbmed.de/en/covid-19/overview/ | 02:11 |
| bittersweet | In Victoria the security guards connected to the hotels where travelers are quarantined are getting it making people worried about community transmission. I wonder if it's getting sucked into the air conditioning and blown everywhere even if the security guards don't actually have contact with the people in the rooms... | 02:13 |
| bittersweet | Don't know | 02:13 |
| ryouma | do they mask? | 02:14 |
| bittersweet | Don't know | 02:14 |
| LjL | air conditioning has been virtually neglected for so long | 02:14 |
| ryouma | hvac manufacturers are notoriously lazy. they don't care about mold, they don't care about legionnaire's, they don't acre about filtering, they never carea bout hepa. | 02:14 |
| LjL | i kept pointing at it when the passengers on whatever the first ship was called kept getting sick despite isolation | 02:14 |
| LjL | but it was all "they'll be getting it from bathrooms, or they're defying isolation, or they're getting it from people who bring them food, or..." | 02:15 |
| LjL | yes, maybe. but then again, how about ubiquitous air circulation on a ship? | 02:15 |
| ryouma | laws passed forcing ac to take into consideration mold and communicable diseases would reaaaaaaaaaaaally improve public health, without much increase in price at all, is my guess | 02:16 |
| tinwhiskers | most ducted ac I've seen blows into rooms and doesn't take air away from rooms. Provided the air intake is safe then I don't see how they would be spreading it. | 02:16 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, if the rooms are airtight wrt the outside, as i presume cabins on a ship are, the air in the room will be going somewhere | 02:17 |
| tinwhiskers | ah. ok | 02:17 |
| LjL | but i guess we'll have to wait for the *next* "airborne transmission is real" paper, since the latest one really, really sucked and is hopefully going to be retracted | 02:17 |
| tinwhiskers | out into the corridor I guess | 02:18 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, that's the place where all people sometimes have to go unless they literally never leave their cabins, if i'm not too mistaken | 02:18 |
| ryouma | it's not as if you can guarantee that the intake is from outside | 02:18 |
| ryouma | or filtered | 02:19 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: was it your Linklist, or LjL's? (specops) | 02:19 |
| ryouma | do those cabins have plumbing? | 02:19 |
| tinwhiskers | ok, but in most cases we're talking about apartments and hotels, etc. They are not sealed externally. Most air comes into the room from a single intake point on the roof or basement and goes out the gaps around windows, doors, etc. | 02:19 |
| LjL | oriba, mine, i updated it, see bot notice above :P | 02:19 |
| oriba | ah ok | 02:20 |
| oriba | LjL: in August I will start working there :-) | 02:20 |
| LjL | cool | 02:21 |
| tinwhiskers | but, yeah, the hallways will still likely be contaminated to some extent | 02:21 |
| tinwhiskers | But I'm still not really seeing much of a risk of ducted AC spreading the virus between rooms to any significant extent. | 02:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Amazonas, Peru: +514 cases (now 1440), +4 deaths (now 31) since 6 days ago — Lima, Peru: +16986 cases (now 139869), +847 deaths (now 3390) since 6 days ago — Ayacucho, Peru: +336 cases (now 1331), +3 deaths (now 11) since 6 days ago — Puno, Peru: +204 cases (now 701), +5 deaths (now 14) since 6 days ago | 02:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Amazonas, Peru: +514 cases (now 1440), +4 deaths (now 31) since 6 days ago — Lima, Peru: +16986 cases (now 139869), +847 deaths (now 3390) since 6 days ago — Ayacucho, Peru: +336 cases (now 1331), +3 deaths (now 11) since 6 days ago — Puno, Peru: +204 cases (now 701), +5 deaths (now 14) since 6 days ago | 02:23 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, each environment is going to be different, but anyway mine is just a hunch, only made strong by the fact that some of my "hunches" have proven true before (not because i'm much of a genius but because they were really common sense being denied for unclear reasons). still, when you have complex structures, and people keep getting infected in them, despite attempts at isolation, one thing you should look at is whether isolation is failing; | 02:23 |
| LjL | another thing is, at least if you believe you're dealing with an airborne thing, how the air circulation works. like other things, this seems like common sense to me. then you may find that the air circulation has nothing to do with it, but it just seems like something obvious that should be looked at | 02:23 |
| bittersweet | Also the security guards might have had to deal with people not staying in their rooms like they are meant to as well of course but I do wonder about air circulation and if you are sitting under a vent where that air has come from | 02:25 |
| tinwhiskers | well, each environment isn't going to be *that* different. They broadly follow the same principles. I've seen implications that people think the ducting is taking air and moving it directly between rooms or some such. What I'm saying is that doesn't happen. I'm not claiming there is not unexplained contamination in these environments. | 02:25 |
| tinwhiskers | ships are a special case for sure. | 02:26 |
| bittersweet | probably heater in Victoria at the moment | 02:27 |
| bittersweet | i'd be cranking up the heat hoping the virus didn't like the heat | 02:28 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i understand they don't directly move it between room, but all the air that gets pushed into a room will have to get out of that room, unless the occupant really like high pressure. it's probably not going to be a somewhat violent jet like the one coming in, but it's still moving around | 02:28 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 02:28 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, you have a point that much of that air may be leaving to the outside via windows etc, but that depends entirely on the building's environment. maybe the ducted AC always work in a similar way, but these other things don't | 02:29 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 02:29 |
| tinwhiskers | I was more trying to clarify the misunderstanding that I think I see from people who think AC is directly pumping and/or circulating air between rooms. | 02:30 |
| tinwhiskers | but, yeah there will be indirect movement of some air from rooms into hallways, and also some from hallways into other rooms. | 02:31 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, much of the AC in Italy isn't ducted in the first place, split systems are much easier when retrofitting | 02:32 |
| LjL | those are just recirculating air within the room | 02:32 |
| tinwhiskers | right | 02:32 |
| LjL | one more expensive option we had when installing split AC here was a system where air/humidity from the outside would be brought in (though the gruntwork would still be done by split units recirculating air) to be able to regulate humidity separately from temperature | 02:33 |
| tinwhiskers | fancy | 02:33 |
| LjL | well we picked the cheaper option, it was expensive enough :) | 02:33 |
| tinwhiskers | I chose the fan | 02:34 |
| LjL | be careful | 02:34 |
| LjL | %wik fan death | 02:34 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Fan death is a belief that running an electric fan in a closed room with unopened or no windows will cause death. Despite no concrete evidence to support the concept, belief in fan death persists to this day in Korea, and also to a lesser extent in Japan. → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death | 02:34 |
| tinwhiskers | o.O | 02:34 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 02:34 |
| LjL | almost no fans in Korea are sold without a timer (that you can't disable) | 02:35 |
| LjL | government agencies caution against fan death | 02:35 |
| tinwhiskers | my room is by no means closed though. I have basically no wall on the side that opens onto the verandah. | 02:35 |
| tinwhiskers | what?! | 02:35 |
| tinwhiskers | are they serious? | 02:35 |
| LjL | always | 02:35 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 02:36 |
| LjL | there are many purported explanations for the phenomenon (which is self-evidently true since media publish accounts of people dying from it every summer) | 02:37 |
| tinwhiskers | :-/ | 02:37 |
| tinwhiskers | confirmation bias is wonderful | 02:37 |
| LjL | but i'll just cover a not particularly scientific one, namely the one that the fan's blade chop up air molecules and what you breathe in front of a fan is not able to provide you with oxygen | 02:37 |
| tinwhiskers | ahhhh :-) | 02:38 |
| LjL | it's probably from thinking along these lines that Dyson decided to market their fans as "Safe Air" in Korea | 02:38 |
| LjL | no blades → no chopping up! | 02:38 |
| tinwhiskers | nice | 02:38 |
| LjL | then again | 02:39 |
| LjL | %title https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-15987082 | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.bbc.com: How to avoid getting 'hit by air' in Italy - BBC News | 02:39 |
| LjL | i certainly never questioned the truth of the harm from "hits of air". hell i dread any cold current. | 02:39 |
| tinwhiskers | interesting. I've not heard of that either :-) | 02:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Guatemala: +641 cases (now 12509), +34 deaths (now 483) since 23 hours ago — Mexico: +5030 cases (now 170485), +647 deaths (now 20394) since 23 hours ago — Mississippi, US: +381 cases (now 21022), +5 deaths (now 943) since 2 days ago — World: +6251 cases (now 8.8 million), +688 deaths (now 462710) since 49 minutes ago | 03:08 |
| iz | it's like being repeatedly punched by a very very weak person.. re: hits of air | 03:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bolivia: +977 cases (now 22476), +18 deaths (now 715) since 23 hours ago — World: +1073 cases (now 8.8 million), +18 deaths (now 462728) since 35 minutes ago — New Zealand: +2 cases (now 1509) since a day ago — China: +27 cases (now 83352) since a day ago | 03:38 |
| H3N2_npi | anyway we could just remove any 'news' that starts with "Trump says" | 03:42 |
| H3N2_npi | I believe he still believes Obama was born in Kenya, so what's the point | 03:43 |
| LjL | wut | 03:43 |
| H3N2_npi | its like a news article that starts "Known Madman says" 'the sky is orange' | 03:44 |
| H3N2_npi | is that news? | 03:44 |
| LjL | i must have missed the article you're talking about | 03:44 |
| H3N2_npi | LjL: have you read Berry's The Great Influenza? | 03:48 |
| LjL | no | 03:48 |
| H3N2_npi | john barry, I just finished it, the afterward is quite interesting re: masks, and quarantines | 03:50 |
| ryouma | missed all that scrollback and only read the first few pars but LjL idk why an article was published without anybody noticing that the guy seems to assume the italian malady he dismisses does not exist. EVEN the nhs acknowledges it, and that is something because they dismiss the existence of diseases they find inconvenient: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/cervical-rib/ | 03:50 |
| ryouma | whereas the british writer said "I have looked it up in the dictionary and found "cervical" - an adjective referring to the cervical vertebrae, those little bones in the back of your neck - but as an ailment, there is simply no English translation. We do not have it! | 03:50 |
| ryouma | " | 03:50 |
| H3N2_npi | Afterword | 03:51 |
| ryouma | ah | 03:51 |
| ryouma | i don't see an afterword | 03:51 |
| ryouma | although it is likely that tos and cervical rib were dismissed by the establishment previously, they are reasonably well known and seem accepted by nhs | 03:52 |
| H3N2_npi | LjL: are vaccines being produced in mammalian cells or using recombinant techniques to grow hemaglutten in insect cells? | 03:53 |
| LjL | ryouma, it's just a bit of a funny article on cultural attitudes, don't take it soo seeriously... but anyway that "cervical rib" article is definitely not what italians are talking about when they talk of "cervicale". the rib is an abnormality from birth, it says, while our "cervicale" is just some kind of joint pain supposedly developed from (non-congenital) spinal issues in the neck | 03:54 |
| ryouma | even if the article itself is as you say (and i believe you), i take topics surrounding this type of issue seriously indeed because a lot of harm results from those topics. long story i probably shouldn't have started but still. | 03:56 |
| LjL | ryouma, i'd say it's as much a commentary on brits as it is on italians. besides, things like "Soon after I moved here, I remember a friend telling me he was not feeling very well. "My liver hurts," he said. I have since been assured by doctors that you cannot actually feel your liver, but what really struck me was the fact that he knew where his liver was." ← well, we can definitely feel pain where the liver is, and an italian would typically say "m | 03:56 |
| LjL | y liver hurts". it may not be related to the liver, but that's where you feel the pain. maybe a brit would simply say "hit hurts here *points*" because they don't know where the liver is or they don't associate the pain to the liver. big deal? | 03:56 |
| ryouma | right | 03:57 |
| H3N2_npi | in the Afterword, page 456 "one too of no use is widespread quarantine" | 03:57 |
| ryouma | H3N2_npi: ok never mind talking about different articles | 03:57 |
| H3N2_npi | unpublished 1918 study of Army camps | 03:57 |
| H3N2_npi | ryouma: you have the book, sorry didn't read your posts | 03:58 |
| LjL | i need to lie down, i'm getting a headache | 03:59 |
| ryouma | LjL: no, that's actually part of the point; deliberate misunderstanding of the fact that such differences exist harmlessly (e.g. saying it's your liver when it could be just saying it is someplace in that area) does exist and is being used to deny medical care to populations. not sayign the article does such a thing | 03:59 |
| LjL | ryouma, that actually sounds interesting but i'll inquire another day or in a while if i don't fall asleep, my eyes need rest | 04:01 |
| LjL | by the way, a tooth hurts. not the same as for you, but still i'm not cherishing the idea of seeing the dentist ;( | 04:01 |
| ryouma | we get carefully-planted stories in newspapers about e.g. pakistani garment workers being crazy and rushing for the exit and saying they are feeling sick, after smelling something funny, which assume without question that they are being crazy without any medical testing, despite the fact that literally hundreds of substances are being used in garment manufacture, to support western corporate and medical industry mis | 04:01 |
| ryouma | treatment of populations of sick people | 04:01 |
| ryouma | e.g. | 04:01 |
| ryouma | LjL: :( | 04:02 |
| H3N2_npi | we had a few classes on 'cultural experiences of pain' , not sure how that ties into Covid | 04:03 |
| ryouma | H3N2_npi: those topics are extremely political | 04:03 |
| H3N2_npi | Fwiw, I believe not everyone has a 'cervical rib' | 04:03 |
| ryouma | medical payers do not wnt to pay | 04:03 |
| LjL | hmm well that's funny, my dad here just had a bit of a sickness spell after he woke up from being asleep, and he blamed it on the mosquito repellent thing we tend to keep running (i've always kind of wondering just HOW it can be harmless for humans if it kills mosquitoes, but, well, we're different organisms) | 04:03 |
| LjL | but he also had high blood pressure so i suspect he simply blamed the first thing he could notice | 04:04 |
| ryouma | idk where lombardy is on a apopulation basis compared to az. my guess is it has improved quite a bit? if you know lomardy compared to ny here is http://www.offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20York;Arizona&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&miscType=Rate | 04:04 |
| H3N2_npi | LjL: well maybe you can explain Gluten Intolerance ? | 04:04 |
| H3N2_npi | Chronic Fatigue Syndrome | 04:05 |
| H3N2_npi | on and on | 04:05 |
| LjL | H3N2_npi, why are you asking me these questions? i am not a medical professional | 04:05 |
| H3N2_npi | ryouma: which topics? | 04:05 |
| LjL | ryouma, what do you mean "where lombardy is"? it's got 10 million residents but i think you mean something else | 04:05 |
| ryouma | where it is on the curve | 04:05 |
| ryouma | i.e. your risk | 04:06 |
| LjL | ryouma, oh, cases are still coming up, about 50-80% of new cases per day in Italy typically come from Lombardy, but it's about 200 a day, consider at the worst we had more than a thousand *dead* (not cases) per day | 04:06 |
| H3N2_npi | recently, I saw a US Army camp, had a high rate of Covid + cases, and article said in effect, if the army can't do it, how are schools going to | 04:07 |
| LjL | ryouma, it's hard to tell. it's been one of the regions in the world hit the hardest, but right now... i don't know, it appears to be under control albeit not satisfyingly, but we have also "re-opened" all the things and i am not fully convinced we aren't having a yet-unseen second spike | 04:08 |
| H3N2_npi | though, of course the 1918 study then says of the 99 that imposed it, on 6 could do it rigidly | 04:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Jamaica: +14 cases (now 652) since a day ago — Guam: +7 cases (now 200) since a day ago — Bermuda: +2 cases (now 146) since 4 days ago — South Korea: +67 cases (now 12373) since 23 hours ago | 04:08 |
| LjL | but Milan-city (as opposed to the province, which had it a bit worse) hasn't been hit incredibly hard compared to other places in Lombardy | 04:08 |
| LjL | ryouma, the "by population" thing doesn't work for Lombardy for some reason, but you can compare these: http://www.offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardy;Italy it shows that Lombardy is a very substantial portion of the cases in Italy. but then if you look at http://www.offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy;Lombardy&cumulative=no&smooth=yes you see that while cases are down a lot compared to the worst period, right now Lombardy represents *even more* of | 04:10 |
| LjL | Italy's cases. | 04:10 |
| H3N2_npi | also pg 457 "a study of professionals wearing N95s to protect themselves from toxic mold found that more than 860% did not wear them properly" | 04:11 |
| H3N2_npi | s/60% | 04:11 |
| LjL | i haven't really found a way to wear the N95 (well, FPP3) i have so that a ton of air doesn't escape upwards from the nose | 04:12 |
| LjL | (yes, i did tighten the metal bar) | 04:12 |
| ryouma | i have no metal bar on mine | 04:12 |
| LjL | uhm, does it even qualify as an N95 then? | 04:12 |
| LjL | there has to be something to shape it for the nose | 04:12 |
| ryouma | you could try masking tape | 04:12 |
| ryouma | LjL: it is a moldex niosh-certified | 04:12 |
| ryouma | it has (toxic) foam pads at the top instead. i just assumed it would have a metal bar when i got it. | 04:13 |
| LjL | ah | 04:13 |
| LjL | how do you know they're toxic? | 04:13 |
| ryouma | x | 04:13 |
| H3N2_npi | 'there are data from 1920, 1889 concluding children are not super spreaders of influenza', '80-85% of 1st cases were adults, not schoolchildren' | 04:14 |
| LjL | err, what is that supposed to mean? i'm not challenging you, i'm just asking | 04:14 |
| ryouma | i was going to clarify that it is most likely not toxic for most folk. that particular type of foam is for those who have similar issues to one of the issues i am dealing with. i have not noticeably reacted to it but i'd rather have one without that type of foam. | 04:15 |
| LjL | i see | 04:15 |
| LjL | you seem to have a variety of issues | 04:15 |
| LjL | but i guess it's not unusual when one has something serious and systemic, i guess | 04:16 |
| ryouma | x means "my type-break timer got some kind of race condition taht turned the line red and i couldn't figure it out and the only thing that got rid of the red was typing something and hitting enter but in retrospect a space would have been better than an x" | 04:16 |
| H3N2_npi | re: school closures | 04:16 |
| ryouma | right | 04:16 |
| LjL | ha | 04:16 |
| LjL | H3N2_npi, i'm pretty sure influenza is now believed to be *widely* carried by children... COVID is another matter though, there are indications shall children either rarely get it, or almost never infect others, or both | 04:17 |
| ryouma | and i would rather have a metal bar in any case. hmm, you could also consider putting a tissue inside to fill the gap. | 04:18 |
| H3N2_npi | 'in 2009 mexico city recommended masks on public transit and gave out free ones, usage peaked at 65%, 4 days later fell to 27%" | 04:19 |
| H3N2_npi | 'the problems are immense, the biggest problem lies in the relationship between governments and the truth' lol | 04:20 |
| LjL | it's illegal here to be on public transport without a mask now... but for that matter, it's technically illegal outdoors too, but tons of people don't wear or or wear it improperly | 04:22 |
| LjL | but i suspect on public transport it's enforced a little bit more than just outdoors | 04:22 |
| H3N2_npi | in 2009 Mexico public health was initially excluded, Egypt slaughtered all the pigs in the country, mexico spent $180 million fighting the disease, but lost 9 Billion cause of irrational trading responses of its partners, candor was(is) discouraged | 04:24 |
| H3N2_npi | anyway, worth a look, to compare the hypothetical with the terrible present | 04:25 |
| LjL | Sweden is experiencing some economic backlash despite never having locked down, mostly from loss of exports | 04:26 |
| LjL | but i read something about the 1918 pandemic that basically said, the countries that fared worst health-wise also ended up faring worst economy-wise | 04:26 |
| LjL | so "do we save lives or do we save the economy" may be a false dichotomy | 04:27 |
| LjL | there is going to be an impact on the economy, for sure. and for that matter there is an impact on lives too. i still think the latter should prevail in any decisions, although the former should be considered | 04:27 |
| H3N2_npi | LjL: yes, John Barry interviews say that: we Could walk and chew gum at the same time. | 04:28 |
| LjL | that sounds very windows 95 | 04:29 |
| H3N2_npi | some of Florida's ICUs now at capacity | 04:29 |
| ryouma | to me it always seemed a choice between "close borders etc. early and do better from both economy and disease" and "try to save one or the other futilely and do worse" | 04:29 |
| ryouma | um, i guess i meant economy | 04:31 |
| LjL | you wrote economy too | 04:31 |
| H3N2_npi | quarantining may be overrated | 04:31 |
| H3N2_npi | despite 'the common sense' of it | 04:32 |
| LjL | well it's possible the major carriers of COVID are the asymptomatic and/or presymptomatic people | 04:33 |
| LjL | but that'd also be due to the fact that the actually symptomatic people are quarantined | 04:33 |
| LjL | or at least sick at home barely able to get out of bed | 04:33 |
| LjL | that's not really something a virus wants to begin with, not when it's trying to infect other hosts | 04:34 |
| LjL | but aside from quarantines, in italy despite re-opening we're still observing social distancing in ways that i think other countries (UK, US) are not: you still can't enter shops and stores at your leisures, you have to queue outside as there is a limited number of people who can be inside. you have to wear a mask and gloves when inside (gloves are a stupid idea imo but whatever) | 04:35 |
| LjL | then parks are crammed and people there don't give a shit, but at least there's hoping that sunlight etc help with that | 04:35 |
| H3N2_npi | LjL: outdoor transmission I suspect is very low | 04:38 |
| H3N2_npi | Indoors I would like to see a huge push to fit folks with N95s, fit test them, provide new ones every week, but will never happen | 04:39 |
| H3N2_npi | I think fomite transmission is fairly low also | 04:40 |
| LjL | we don't have enough, we have "ramped up" (i.e. "started") production of our own masks, but they are... basically cotton masks that many make at home | 04:40 |
| LjL | there are no certifications whatsoever | 04:40 |
| LjL | N95 masks are not readily available, they haven't been since january/february | 04:40 |
| LjL | i don't know about that, i think i'll keep insisting on disinfecting groceries for a while | 04:40 |
| H3N2_npi | sure, but if they started now, as a 'military' production capacity, maybe there'd be some in 3-4 months | 04:41 |
| LjL | it can't hurt, except for all the alcohol inhalation... | 04:41 |
| H3N2_npi | seems to me, loss of focus, and education, is part of the problem | 04:41 |
| LjL | H3N2_npi, i saw a TV investigative journalism thing, they talked to people in factories supposed to be producing these masks, they say they are ready but they are missing the material (i forget the name) that's "sandwitched" between two other layers and which is actually the one that provides the filtering. it has to come... from china, i would presume. we don't have the technology to make it. | 04:42 |
| H3N2_npi | LjL: another victim of 'just in time', free markets | 04:43 |
| H3N2_npi | "free" markets | 04:43 |
| LjL | damn i was supposed to try sleeping | 04:44 |
| H3N2_npi | LjL: sleepwell | 04:45 |
| ryouma | LjL: melt-blown something or other | 04:47 |
| ryouma | what do you do to reuse a mask? can you just stick it in a ziploc bag when you are not using it? wouldn't that spread virus from fromt of mask to back of mask? (by mask i mean n95 respirator) | 04:47 |
| LjL | yes, melt-blown rings a bell | 04:47 |
| LjL | ryouma, what *i* do is to spray it with isopropyl alcohol from a bit of a distance (so as not to get it wet, just shower it in mist), but technically that may be a bad idea because it removes the electric charge that helps the filtering material filter. i think if possible, the simplest way is leave it outside in the sun for a while, if you can afford that | 04:49 |
| LjL | ("a while" = several hours or days) | 04:49 |
| ryouma | but what if you have to take it off and put it on a lot like to eat or take medicine? soudns like you need a lot of masks and a lot of open-air hanging space and to mark them with numbers or something | 04:50 |
| LjL | i think the widespread habit of wearing it on the neck is not *so* bad as long as you're careful what you touch, and actually put it back on when possible/necessary, as opposed to so many people here :P | 04:51 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Gov. Cooper says ‘strong’ people wear face coverings as sign of compassion (10183 votes) | https://www.wjhl.com/coronavirus/gov-cooper-says-strong-people-wear-face-coverings-as-sign-of-compassion/ | https://redd.it/hc8u6v | 04:56 |
| ryouma | which party is cooper? | 04:57 |
| LjL | ryouma, well i'd need at least his first name to know but | 04:57 |
| LjL | Our European visitors are important to us. | 04:57 |
| LjL | This site is currently unavailable to visitors from the European Economic Area while we work to ensure your data is protected in accordance with applicable EU laws. | 04:57 |
| LjL | (same as like half of US news sites after the GDPR) | 04:58 |
| ryouma | roy | 04:58 |
| LjL | %wik Roy Cooper | 04:59 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Roy Asberry Cooper III (born June 13, 1957) is an American politician and attorney who has served as the 75th Governor of North Carolina since January 1, 2017. A member of the Democratic Party, Cooper had previously served as the elected Attorney General of North Carolina since 2001. Prior to that, he served [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Cooper | 04:59 |
| LjL | there you go | 04:59 |
| ryouma | yeah. i wonder if it convinces more when it comes from the other party. | 05:00 |
| ryouma | maybe a dumb q but is there a general european consensus on what americans are like, or what american politics is like, and so on? i mean, like a stereotype or something? | 05:01 |
| Urchin[emacs] | ryouma: Homer Simpson | 05:05 |
| LjL | there are certainly stereotypes but they are probably varied and nuanced | 05:05 |
| LjL | well, that's a stereotype of americans *by* americans, strictly speaking | 05:06 |
| Urchin[emacs] | also one outside of america | 05:06 |
| ryouma | i only watched a few episodes but homer simpson is ... what? i would guess dumb, selfish, devoted to his wife, and, idk what else? | 05:07 |
| Urchin[emacs] | ryouma: americans are generally considered loud and stupid | 05:07 |
| ryouma | ugly american stereotype? | 05:07 |
| ryouma | "ugly american abroat" | 05:07 |
| ryouma | d | 05:07 |
| Urchin[emacs] | not that much | 05:08 |
| LjL | "loud and stupid" seems like a bit of a simplification | 05:08 |
| Urchin[emacs] | it is an oversimplification | 05:08 |
| LjL | i find americans are often very convinced that the way things are done in america is the "proper" way and everything else is "strange" | 05:08 |
| Urchin[emacs] | there tends to be a lot of mocking of the incompetence at geography | 05:08 |
| LjL | (not talking politics, more like everyday things and habits) | 05:08 |
| LjL | in europe we're probably more accustomed to things just not being the same for our neighbors | 05:09 |
| LjL | Urchin[emacs], yeah but to be fair i would be hard pressed to identify many US states | 05:09 |
| Urchin[emacs] | the noise level americans tend to produce is pretty unusual for many parts of europe | 05:09 |
| ryouma | LjL: i wouldn't expect you to | 05:09 |
| LjL | not for italy i'm betting | 05:09 |
| ryouma | Urchin[emacs]: you are european? | 05:10 |
| Urchin[emacs] | ryouma: yes | 05:10 |
| LjL | ryouma, but then why would i expect you to identify EU states? | 05:10 |
| LjL | to be fair a few of them have less anonymous rectancular shapes | 05:10 |
| ryouma | i hold myself to the standard of i hope getting european COUNTRIES correct | 05:10 |
| LjL | i think italy is probably one of the most iconically identifiable countries | 05:10 |
| ryouma | i'd like to get better thatn that of course | 05:11 |
| LjL | by states i meant countries | 05:11 |
| LjL | the term is "EU member states" | 05:11 |
| Urchin[emacs] | yeah, it probably gets more obscure for americans if you're looking outside of EU | 05:11 |
| LjL | even inside of the EU, who even knows whoch one is Estonia, which Latvia and which Lithuania? | 05:12 |
| LjL | but then, how many *Europeans* know that? | 05:13 |
| LjL | i for one still mix them up :P | 05:13 |
| Urchin[emacs] | what I'd expect people to know as general knowledge are France, Germany, Italy, Spain, possibly Portugal and not get the mess in the British isles exactly correctly | 05:13 |
| ryouma | not to mention the russian enclave... whatever it is called | 05:13 |
| Urchin[emacs] | Kaliningrad? | 05:13 |
| ryouma | exclave. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad | 05:14 |
| ryouma | yeah | 05:14 |
| LjL | enclave is like san marino or the vatican, being sovereign states completely surrounded by one oher state | 05:14 |
| ryouma | right | 05:14 |
| ryouma | my error | 05:14 |
| ryouma | what do you call gambia? | 05:15 |
| LjL | %cases san marino | 05:15 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In San Marino, there have been 696 confirmed cases (2.1% of the population) and 42 deaths (6.0% of cases) as of a day ago. 5501 tests were performed (12.7% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 2.0% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 6.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=San%20Marino for time series data. | 05:15 |
| LjL | ryouma, i call it a country whose geography i have honestly no idea of | 05:15 |
| LjL | oh, surrounded by Senegal except for sea | 05:16 |
| LjL | i'm not sure it technically counts as an enclave, but probably | 05:16 |
| Urchin[emacs] | not sure where gambia is (would guess along south coast of africa north of the tropical belt | 05:16 |
| LjL | %wik Monaco | 05:16 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Monaco (/ˈmɒnəkoʊ/ (listen); French pronunciation: [mɔnako]), officially the Principality of Monaco (French: Principauté de Monaco),[a] is a sovereign city-state, country, and microstate on the French Riviera in Western Europe. It is bordered by France to the north, east and west, and by the [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monaco | 05:16 |
| Urchin[emacs] | %wik gambia | 05:17 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin[emacs], from English Wikipedia: The Gambia (/ˈɡæmbiə/ (listen); Mandinka: Kambiya; Wolof: Gámbi), officially the Republic of The Gambia, is a country in West Africa. The Gambia is often referred to as 'The Smiling Coast'. It is the smallest country within mainland Africa, and is surrounded by Senegal, except for its [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gambia | 05:17 |
| ryouma | west coast | 05:17 |
| LjL | the word enclave is not used in the article for Monaco | 05:17 |
| LjL | so i guess Gambia is not an enclave either | 05:17 |
| Urchin[emacs] | ok, I was off by a few thousand km | 05:18 |
| ryouma | i want to know all the geographic / map theory terms for all types of countries real and hypothetical. i think there is an interesting one around armenia. | 05:18 |
| LjL | well i'm pretty much out of terms i know | 05:18 |
| LjL | i know that a country without access to the sea is called a landlocked country | 05:19 |
| ryouma | afghanistan is doubly land locked | 05:19 |
| ryouma | i.e. its neighbors are land locked | 05:19 |
| Urchin[emacs] | French Guiana is interesting, a chunk of France in South America | 05:19 |
| LjL | as in... you have to cross two countries to get to the sea? | 05:19 |
| ryouma | i think so | 05:19 |
| ryouma | if i haev it right | 05:20 |
| LjL | Urchin[emacs], it's even part of the EU and uses the Euro, unlike other overseas territories | 05:20 |
| Urchin[emacs] | yeah, it has the european space port there | 05:20 |
| Urchin[emacs] | it's almost on the equator, saves a lot on engine design for relighting capability for certain launches | 05:20 |
| Urchin[emacs] | also gives higher payloads | 05:20 |
| tinwhiskers | well, I've failed miserably to make clear the weird zero values in the covidly data so as a last resort I've added a left and right trim, which allows you to fix that manually and also "zoom in" on certain sections of data. It's kinda useful. | 05:21 |
| tinwhiskers | you're up late LjL | 05:21 |
| LjL | a funny thing is that Gibraltar, as known, belongs to Britain instead of being part of Spain, but the *other* side of Gibraltar (the one in Africa) actually does belong to Spain instead! | 05:21 |
| tinwhiskers | -make | 05:21 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, no later than the past few days... but i did try to sleep but it just isn't happening | 05:21 |
| LjL | my sleep patterns are all messed up | 05:22 |
| tinwhiskers | same. I tend to get up at about 3:00am now. Sometimes I go back to sleep, sometimes not. I'm kinda the inverse of you. | 05:22 |
| Urchin[emacs] | %data croatia | 05:22 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin[emacs]: In Croatia, there have been 2280 confirmed cases (0.1% of the population) and 107 deaths (4.7% of cases) as of 14 hours ago. 71814 tests were performed (3.2% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.6% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 4.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data. | 05:22 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, what's it called, i only remember it in italian | 05:23 |
| LjL | %tr allodole e usignoli | 05:23 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, English to English: allodole e usignoli (Google) | 05:23 |
| LjL | %tr <it allodole e usignoli | 05:23 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: larks and nightingales (MyMemory, Google) — Larks and nightingales (Apertium) | 05:23 |
| tinwhiskers | ah | 05:23 |
| Urchin[emacs] | hm ... second wave starting (not counting possible unrecognized february wave) | 05:23 |
| LjL | nightingale okay, larks doesn't actually right a bell | 05:23 |
| LjL | they're terms for people who are intrinsically more active in the morning (and tend to wake up early) vs ones who are more active during the evening/night (and go to bed late) | 05:24 |
| ryouma | if you are talkinga bout circadian rhythms, in english you say lark and owl | 05:24 |
| ryouma | with the prefixes | 05:24 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: yeah, that translates idiomatically | 05:24 |
| LjL | lark and owl | 05:25 |
| tinwhiskers | even better | 05:25 |
| LjL | i forget things lately | 05:25 |
| LjL | i'm pretty sure i learned these terms in english *firs* | 05:25 |
| LjL | first | 05:25 |
| ryouma | is there prejudice against night owls in italy? there is in the us. | 05:26 |
| ryouma | considered lazy | 05:26 |
| LjL | yes, probably | 05:26 |
| LjL | in denmark they have a law that makes it illegal for employers to discriminate against people who have sleep pattern disturbances | 05:26 |
| ryouma | that is fantastic | 05:26 |
| LjL | so if you just can't wake up early, and a doctor confirms that, they are legally obliged to accommodate you | 05:26 |
| ryouma | that is incredible | 05:26 |
| ryouma | i wonder what kind of persistent advocacy was needed to achieve that | 05:27 |
| LjL | i don't know, the nordic countries are a bit special in these things | 05:27 |
| LjL | they can be incredibly progressive while at the same time having some of the scariest neo-nazi groups | 05:28 |
| ryouma | didn't know about the latter | 05:28 |
| LjL | oh yeah especially after the migration waves | 05:28 |
| tinwhiskers | Urchin[emacs]: it does look that way | 05:28 |
| LjL | most of the migrants were headed to sweden, and norway isn't incredibly happy with them either | 05:29 |
| ryouma | i knew about anti-muslim sentiment is all. and in denmark the karina hansen case. | 05:29 |
| LjL | don't forget | 05:30 |
| LjL | %wik Anders Breivik | 05:30 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Anders Behring Breivik (Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈɑ̀nːəʂ ˈbèːrɪŋ ˈbræ̀ɪviːk] (listen); born 13 February 1979), since 2017 legally Fjotolf Hansen and also known by his pseudonym Andrew Berwick, is a Norwegian far-right terrorist who committed the 2011 Norway attacks. On 22 July [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik | 05:30 |
| LjL | he certainly has a fan base | 05:30 |
| Urchin[emacs] | finns are interesting, they always maintain ability to accept the full evacuation of the entire population of St. Petersburg, so a wave of migrants is a trivial problem for them logistically | 05:31 |
| LjL | why would St. Petersburg evacuate to Finland? O.o | 05:32 |
| ryouma | can you tell me that history? i am an ignorant american. | 05:32 |
| ryouma | oh good an italian didn't know either | 05:32 |
| Urchin[emacs] | LjL: it's close by | 05:32 |
| LjL | i mean so is Switzerland here but we don't have a plan in case they all decide to migrate to Milan | 05:33 |
| LjL | although that seems exceedingly unlikely, they'd probably die over doing that | 05:33 |
| Urchin[emacs] | LjL: they came up with such plans during the cold war | 05:33 |
| ryouma | well that country had to do all sorts of amazing diplomatic stuff i'll bet | 05:34 |
| Urchin[emacs] | LjL: also, the Switzerland is one of those crazy prepared countries | 05:34 |
| LjL | anyway one thing is the logistics of hosting migrant temporarily, another is dealing with finding them a job so they don't end up doing crime etc | 05:34 |
| Urchin[emacs] | LjL: Finnland is a bit of an immitator in that regard | 05:34 |
| LjL | ryouma, Finland? they sure always risked ending (back) up in the Russian sphere of influence | 05:35 |
| LjL | they aren't in the NATO and there's basically a Russian veto on that | 05:35 |
| ryouma | is there a word in english like nordica? it is inconvenient that you can't say scandinavia to include finland. | 05:36 |
| ryouma | youah ve to say nordic countries? | 05:37 |
| LjL | no but sometimes people say "the nordics" colloquially | 05:37 |
| LjL | scandinavia also doesn't include iceland and may not include denmark | 05:37 |
| ryouma | huh | 05:37 |
| ryouma | to; | 05:38 |
| LjL | although it usually does in practice | 05:38 |
| ryouma | til | 05:38 |
| LjL | well geographically scandinavia is the peninsula | 05:38 |
| LjL | much of denmark is attached to the continent | 05:38 |
| LjL | %wik Nordic Council | 05:38 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: The Nordic Council is the official body for formal inter-parliamentary co-operation among the Nordic countries. Formed in 1952, it has 87 representatives from Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden as well as from the autonomous areas of the Faroe Islands, Greenland, and the Åland Islands. The [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council | 05:38 |
| LjL | in official council meetings, unless this changed since i read about it, there are no interpreters (although i assume there can be if requested) | 05:40 |
| LjL | everyone is supposed to speak their own language or the language of a neighbor if it's better understood | 05:40 |
| LjL | not sure how danes manage to be understood | 05:40 |
| LjL | maybe nobody really understands anybody else | 05:40 |
| ryouma | so for iceland to be understood by finland takes a game of telephone? | 05:42 |
| LjL | virtually all icelanders speak danish, and in theory all finns are supposed to know swedish (since it's a compulsory subject in school, although many of them don't speak it very well) | 05:42 |
| LjL | danish, norwegian (bokmål) and swedish are trivially understandable when written if you speak one of them | 05:44 |
| LjL | when spoken it's a bit different, danish has developed some really strange sounds compared to the others | 05:44 |
| LjL | they did some sort of study where they determined norwegians are the best at understanding their neighbors | 05:44 |
| LjL | while universally danes were the ones found hardest to understand by other | 05:45 |
| LjL | norwegian is very fragmented into dialects (and has two written standards) so norwegians are used to understanding a range of different things. not so swedes and danes | 05:45 |
| ryouma | does everybody everywhere understand english? | 05:47 |
| LjL | in the nordics? pretty much | 05:47 |
| LjL | in europe in general, not really | 05:47 |
| LjL | the NL have more english speakers than dutch speakers, technically | 05:47 |
| tinwhiskers | speaking for Tonga, no (most of the tongans speak a bit of english but many chinese shops keepers don't speak english) | 05:48 |
| LjL | but in the big countries (france, germany, italy, spain) fluent english knowledge is a bit of a sore note | 05:48 |
| LjL | we're all supposed to learn it in school, but we learn it from teachers who don't really speak it fluently in turn | 05:48 |
| LjL | my spoken english is quite abysmal | 05:48 |
| tinwhiskers | mine too (I'm kiwi) | 05:49 |
| LjL | school laid some foundations, i'm glad it did or i may have always felt too frustrated to even try to understand english on the internet, but given that, the way i'm conversing now is definitely *not* coming from school | 05:49 |
| LjL | like take "definitely". it's an extremely common word but i don't think i've ever been taught the way it's used in school (and "definitivamente" means an entirely different thing in italian, false friend galore) | 05:50 |
| LjL | on the other hand i remember i was taught "seldom" as part of the "always, sometimes, never" set... and then one day (sort of recently!) i realized people hardly ever used it, they say "rarely" instead | 05:51 |
| ryouma | definitively? | 05:51 |
| LjL | yes | 05:51 |
| ryouma | that's normal english | 05:52 |
| LjL | i guess i should have compared it to "definitamente" | 05:52 |
| LjL | but that, in turn, means "in a well-defined manner" | 05:52 |
| LjL | anyway my point is, there's a lot of things that are extremely common in colloquial (or even not so colloquial) english that my teachers were just blissfully ignorant of, and never even tried to teach us | 05:53 |
| LjL | i used definitely just because i'm bad at coming up with examples, and i had just used the word definitely :P | 05:53 |
| LjL | okay, another extremely common example, "actually" | 05:54 |
| LjL | not something i remember from school, but *actually* used all the freaking time | 05:55 |
| LjL | and again, "attualmente" is a false friend, it means "currently" | 05:55 |
| ryouma | i wonder if italians use adverbs less frequently, because they have to9w rite more letters | 05:56 |
| ryouma | so in tonga you're advised toknow a little chinese or spanish? | 05:58 |
| LjL | i don't think it's because we have to write more letters (especially not in speech!) | 05:59 |
| LjL | but i do think adverbs are used a lot more liberally in english | 05:59 |
| LjL | for things like "actually", "definitely", "eventually", "really" and many others we tend to use phrase instead | 05:59 |
| LjL | "in realtà", "di sicuro", "alla fine" | 05:59 |
| LjL | (literally "in reality", "for sure", "at the end") | 05:59 |
| ryouma | i just refreshed az and ny and az disappeared tinwhiskers | 06:02 |
| ryouma | reloaded | 06:02 |
| tinwhiskers | yipes | 06:02 |
| ryouma | http://www.offloop.net/covid19/?default=Arizona;New%20York&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&miscType=Rate | 06:03 |
| tinwhiskers | it's not looking good for az right now | 06:04 |
| ryouma | i would not want right trim and left trim. idk what left trim would do, and the numbers require keyboard entry rather than mouse, which is usable in most of the ui. what i would like is auto-right-trim-of-zeroes i think. | 06:04 |
| tinwhiskers | I can't do that because some places are legitimately getting zeros. I've been looking and I can't see how to tell legit from non-legit zeros | 06:05 |
| tinwhiskers | is there something wrong with using the keyboard? | 06:06 |
| tinwhiskers | I mean, you type in irc... | 06:06 |
| tinwhiskers | if you just look at one or two locations it seems simple but then when you apply the same rule to everywhere it breaks | 06:07 |
| ryouma | i am alwyas in either keyboard mode or mouse mode | 06:07 |
| ryouma | right trim would be optional with default to not trim | 06:07 |
| tinwhiskers | left trim is useful to zoom in on more recent data or a particular place | 06:08 |
| ryouma | ah | 06:08 |
| ryouma | i assumed mouse could do that but didn't try as i didn't understand what mouse did in previous runs | 06:09 |
| tinwhiskers | there is limited zoom with the mouse but it's not ideal | 06:09 |
| ryouma | btw the scales have no numbers for me, though maybe that is my stupid dark reader extension's attempt at a real ergonomic color changer | 06:13 |
| tinwhiskers | err... bummer :-) | 06:13 |
| ryouma | i don't really need them | 06:14 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ukraine: +771 cases (now 35755), +10 deaths (now 995) since 20 hours ago — Pakistan: +6604 cases (now 171666), +153 deaths (now 3382) since 9 hours ago — Honduras: +519 cases (now 11258), +6 deaths (now 349) since a day ago — World: +9535 cases (now 8.8 million), +194 deaths (now 462922) since 3 hours ago | 07:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cordoba, Colombia: +68 cases (now 379), +4 deaths (now 21) since 23 hours ago — Choco, Colombia: +80 cases (now 921), +3 deaths (now 27) since 23 hours ago — Rivne Oblast, Ukraine: +121 cases (now 2693), +2 deaths (now 53) since 23 hours ago — Sao Paulo, Brazil: +19030 cases (now 211658), +386 deaths (now 12232) since 23 hours ago | 07:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kyrgyzstan: +192 cases (now 2981), +3 deaths (now 35) since a day ago — World: +562 cases (now 8.8 million), +3 deaths (now 462932) since 42 minutes ago — India: +370 cases (now 396182) since 11 hours ago | 07:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for El Salvador: +146 cases (now 4475) since 2 hours ago — Armenia: +551 cases (now 19708), +13 deaths (now 332) since 23 hours ago — World: +853 cases (now 8.8 million), +15 deaths (now 462947) since an hour ago — Hungary: +5 cases (now 4086), +2 deaths (now 570) since 23 hours ago | 09:25 |
| truthr | watch for 30 seconds. that is Black Lives Matter harassing trump supporters then an epic fail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sKPYtMaTn0&feature=youtu.be&t=3042 | 11:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Palestine: +84 cases (now 759) since 15 hours ago — Russia: +7889 cases (now 576952), +161 deaths (now 8002) since a day ago — Oman: +896 cases (now 28566), +3 deaths (now 128) since 23 hours ago — Bangladesh: +3240 cases (now 108775), +37 deaths (now 1425) since a day ago | 12:20 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Mayo finds convalescent plasma safe for diverse patients with COVID-19 (81 votes) | https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-finds-convalescent-plasma-safe-for-diverse-patients-with-covid-19/ | https://redd.it/hccyum | 12:47 |
| Yendred | COVID-19 vaccine tracker | RAPS | 12:57 |
| Yendred | https://www.raps.org/news-and-articles/news-articles/2020/3/covid-19-vaccine-tracker | 12:57 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Sixth trial of Chinese COVID-19 vaccine begins (84 votes) | https://www.ibexnews24.com/2020/06/19/sixth-trial-of-chinese-covid-19-vaccine-begins/ | https://redd.it/hcjwy4 | 16:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Azerbaijan: +471 cases (now 12238), +5 deaths (now 148) since 22 hours ago — Qatar: +1026 cases (now 86488), +1 deaths (now 94) since a day ago — Saudi Arabia: +3941 cases (now 154233), +46 deaths (now 1230) since a day ago — Moldova: +397 cases (now 13953), +6 deaths (now 464) since 4 hours ago | 16:36 |
| LjL | Yendred, good find, adding to resources page | 16:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ethiopia: +399 cases (now 4469) since a day ago — Hong Kong: +1 deaths (now 5) since 4 hours ago — World: +1109 cases (now 8.9 million), +9 deaths (now 463742) since 20 minutes ago | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for French Guiana: +194 cases (now 2163) since 21 hours ago — Liberia: +20 cases (now 601) since 21 hours ago — Wyoming, US: +6 cases (now 1179) since 17 hours ago — Vermont, US: +3 cases (now 1147) since a day ago | 17:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nevada, US: +445 cases (now 12931) since 22 hours ago — Alabama, US: +547 cases (now 29549), +16 deaths (now 838) since 23 hours ago — Delaware, US: +70 cases (now 10681), +1 deaths (now 434) since a day ago — US: +1062 cases (now 2.3 million), +17 deaths (now 121468) since 18 minutes ago | 17:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Montana, US: +32 cases (now 698) since 23 hours ago — Arizona, US: +3109 cases (now 49798), +26 deaths (now 1338) since 23 hours ago — US: +3141 cases (now 2.3 million), +34 deaths (now 121502) since 20 minutes ago — World: +3141 cases (now 8.9 million), +34 deaths (now 463799) since 20 minutes ago | 17:37 |
| Jigsy | UK to relax 2m rule... | 17:46 |
| Jigsy | ...as another load of people die. | 17:47 |
| Jigsy | Idiots. | 17:47 |
| blkshp | So we may relax the 2 metre rule to what other people have had all along. | 17:49 |
| blkshp | There has to be some balance. | 17:50 |
| bin_bash | expect the rates to skyrocket, have fun with that. the US is | 17:54 |
| blkshp | Can't keep everyone on lockdown forever. | 17:54 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Glenmark becomes the first pharmaceutical company in India to receive regulatory approval for oral antiviral Favipiravir, for the treatment of mild to moderate COVID-19 (82 votes) | https://www.glenmarkpharma.com/sites/default/files/Glenmark-becomes-the-first-pharmaceut-cal-company-in-India-to-receive.pdf | https://redd.it/hcjynm | 17:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iraq: +1870 cases (now 29222), +88 deaths (now 1013) since 23 hours ago — North Carolina, US: +1549 cases (now 51389) since 16 hours ago — Dominican Rep.: +710 cases (now 25778), +8 deaths (now 655) since 22 hours ago — Minnesota, US: +436 cases (now 32467), +11 deaths (now 1404) since 23 hours ago | 18:07 |
| tinwhiskers | You can lift the lockdown without reducing the physical distancing limit. People should still be aiming for 2 meters but if that's not possible then so be it, but officially reducing it to 1m is harmful to safety and does nothing to help the economy. 1m is effectively no distancing. | 18:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Carolina, US: +1125 cases (now 23756), +5 deaths (now 644) since 20 hours ago — Chile: +5355 cases (now 236748), +202 deaths (now 4295) since a day ago — Oklahoma, US: +331 cases (now 10037), +1 deaths (now 368) since 23 hours ago — US: +1456 cases (now 2.3 million), +6 deaths (now 121558) since 19 minutes ago | 18:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Florida, US: +4049 cases (now 93797), +37 deaths (now 3144) since 18 hours ago — Mayotte: +10 cases (now 2404), +2 deaths (now 31) since 23 hours ago — US: +4642 cases (now 2.3 million), +45 deaths (now 121603) since 33 minutes ago — Missouri, US: +143 cases (now 18041), +6 deaths (now 976) since 20 hours ago | 18:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Comoros: +37 cases (now 247) since 2 days ago — Louisiana, US: +870 cases (now 49385), +20 deaths (now 3104) since 22 hours ago — Brazil: +4600 cases (now 1.0 million), +66 deaths (now 49156) since 18 hours ago — New York, US: +621 cases (now 410214), +13 deaths (now 31172) since 16 hours ago | 19:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +4966 cases (now 92681), +46 deaths (now 1877) since 22 hours ago — Ghana: +514 cases (now 13717), +15 deaths (now 85) since a day ago — Michigan, US: +448 cases (now 67545), +20 deaths (now 6087) since 23 hours ago — Ohio, US: +428 cases (now 44262), +25 deaths (now 2697) since 19 hours ago | 20:22 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Michigan is on track for COVID-19 containment, northern Michigan looks even better (10045 votes) | https://www.interlochenpublicradio.org/post/michigan-track-covid-19-containment-northern-michigan-looks-even-better | https://redd.it/hcliap | 20:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Eswatini: +4 cases (now 627), +1 deaths (now 5) since 23 hours ago — Wisconsin, US: +385 cases (now 24539), +14 deaths (now 744) since 23 hours ago — New Jersey, US: +172 cases (now 171614), +15 deaths (now 12975) since 21 hours ago — US: +629 cases (now 2.3 million), +33 deaths (now 121733) since 19 minutes ago | 20:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Georgia (US), US: +1800 cases (now 63809), +6 deaths (now 2642) since a day ago — Mauritania: +192 cases (now 2813), +6 deaths (now 108) since a day ago — Egypt: +1547 cases (now 53758), +89 deaths (now 2106) since a day ago — US: +1880 cases (now 2.3 million), +8 deaths (now 121741) since 34 minutes ago | 21:08 |
| pepee | have there been studies on blood coagulation in asymptomatic covid-19 patients? | 21:09 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: NIH halts clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine (81 votes) | https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-halts-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine | https://redd.it/hcpmxj | 21:14 |
| nixonix | pepee: i dont know about studies, but this has something https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/04/27/why-is-covid-19-coronavirus-causing-strokes-in-young-and-middle-aged-people/ | 21:17 |
| LjL | they were *still* going on with the hydroxychloroquine? | 21:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Utah, US: +643 cases (now 17068) since a day ago — Tennessee, US: +429 cases (now 34446), +9 deaths (now 524) since 23 hours ago — US: +1072 cases (now 2.3 million), +9 deaths (now 121750) since 20 minutes ago — World: +1145 cases (now 8.9 million), +10 deaths (now 465062) since 20 minutes ago | 21:23 |
| oriba | Comparing causes of deaths: https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2562261/ | 21:36 |
| LjL | oriba, nice (so to speak) but why doesn't it include the common causes like hearth attacks, strokes and cancers? | 21:38 |
| LjL | is it specifically including only those causes that are less than COVID to this day? | 21:39 |
| oriba | LjL: I don't know. | 21:41 |
| oriba | LjL: items like "alcohol" or "drugs" or "conflict" are nor medical items. | 21:43 |
| LjL | yeah... | 21:43 |
| oriba | all those might result in heart-attacs | 21:43 |
| oriba | or cancer | 21:43 |
| oriba | ... | 21:43 |
| oriba | (ok not all in cancer) | 21:43 |
| oriba | but you see what I mean | 21:43 |
| oriba | the categories may come from the data source, which I did not explored in detail | 21:44 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: A single dose of recombinant VSV-∆G-spike vaccine provides protection against SARS-CoV-2 challenge (80 votes) | https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.18.160655v1.full.pdf | https://redd.it/hcq1lx | 22:02 |
| nixonix | cant get recent doubling times for germany out of offloop. is it when it goes to infinity, it can never come back or something | 22:11 |
| nixonix | like there is a zero in the data somewhere causing it | 22:11 |
| tinwhiskers | nixonix: it just means the doubling time is more than 200 days | 23:00 |
| tinwhiskers | If you turn on the log scale you can see it's presently at 334 days | 23:01 |
| nixonix | ok it seems to appear when i turned it down to 4 days, so it works. i thought 6-7 days would be enough, because R_eff over 7 days has gone over 1.5 in germany | 23:02 |
| tinwhiskers | oh. ok | 23:03 |
| tinwhiskers | wow, the US looks like it's on a brink of a big outbreak | 23:04 |
| tinwhiskers | I guess all that protesting and church singing is about to pay dividends. | 23:04 |
| Arsanerit | trump rallies next | 23:08 |
| tinwhiskers | oh yeah. true. | 23:08 |
| Arsanerit | I have the prejudice protesters are more likely to wear masks and keep distance than trump rally ppl | 23:09 |
| Arsanerit | some German antiracism protesters held ribbons and made a line like that, ribbons were 1.5 metre long, each held the end of two ribbons and then they made a long chain of people | 23:09 |
| tinwhiskers | I think there's enough good reason to believe that that I wouldn't call it a prejudice | 23:09 |
| LjL | keeping distance was kinda hard in the protests i saw footage of | 23:09 |
| Arsanerit | maybe that's the footage media chooses to show you | 23:09 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, it's a judgment before the event happen, so it's very literally a prejudice | 23:10 |
| Arsanerit | the media don't show a random sample, they show what's most remarkable | 23:10 |
| tinwhiskers | lol. true | 23:10 |
| Arsanerit | goodnight | 23:10 |
| tinwhiskers | but there is evidence that republicans are less likely to wear masks | 23:10 |
| Arsanerit | gn | 23:10 |
| tinwhiskers | gn | 23:10 |
| underscore | hello | 23:15 |
| tinwhiskers | hi underscore | 23:16 |
| ryouma | az with and without legacy are quite different, despite neither being with 0. one looks like exponential the other almost plateauing for no obvious reason | 23:35 |
| ryouma | maybe if i smooth more days or something | 23:35 |
| ryouma | huh, dunno what it is. they are bothexponential now | 23:38 |
| ryouma | one showed the zero | 23:38 |
| Urchin[emacs] | %data croatia | 23:39 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin[emacs]: In Croatia, there have been 2299 confirmed cases (0.1% of the population) and 107 deaths (4.7% of cases) as of 7 hours ago. 72202 tests were performed (3.2% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.6% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 4.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data. | 23:39 |
| ryouma | %data india | 23:39 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In India, there have been 411727 confirmed cases (0.0% of the population) and 13277 deaths (3.2% of cases) as of 5 minutes ago. 6.6 million tests were performed (6.2% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 5.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data. | 23:39 |
| ryouma | %data usa | 23:39 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In US, there have been 2.3 million confirmed cases (0.7% of the population) and 121891 deaths (5.2% of cases) as of 5 minutes ago. 27.3 million tests were performed (8.5% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 11.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 23:39 |
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