libera/##covid-19/ Thursday, 2020-10-29

DocScrutinizer05pooooh HEADLINE SHOUTING00:15
DocScrutinizer05>>PROSPECTIVELY DEMONSTRATES<< ??00:17
ryoumaexpected to demonstrate in the future?  demonstrates for the prospectus?00:19
DocScrutinizer05yeah, how's that a headline at all?00:21
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: Robust neutralizing antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 infection persist for months (80 votes) | https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/10/27/science.abd7728 | https://redd.it/jjsxk900:21
ryoumait is the lancet, home to papers they will go to great lengths to not retract (the one that sparked the anti-vax movement took 10 years to retract).  macchiarini.  pace.00:23
ryoumawrong, oops, i got the wrong brainstorm00:24
Nov1-VaccineHi everybody!00:26
Nov1-VaccineI'm coming to your state this Sunday. Hope your state listened to Trump's advice 2 months ago and prepared for the mass vaccination Sunday!00:27
Nov1-Vaccinehttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-02/cdc-tells-states-to-get-ready-for-nov-1-vaccine-distribution00:28
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Trump’s Operation Warp Speed and the Race for a Covid-19 Vaccine, Explained → https://is.gd/wuBWAe00:29
ryoumahttps://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-19-vaccine-nov-1-scientists-call-full-release-data-n123917200:29
ryoumaeven voa reported it https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/us-states-told-prepare-receive-covid-19-vaccine-nov-100:31
Nov1-Vaccineso many mainstream news outlets reported it, it MUST be true!00:31
tinwhiskersheh00:32
ryoumawell you are 2 days too early.  voters will forget.00:32
ryoumayou need to get them the day before the election, not 2 days00:32
Nov1-Vaccinenow, some people might say there's a "correlation" with the markets tanking and promises of a vaccine, then the markets magically shooting up after overly-optimistic vaccine talk. Don't listen to them. They're just haters.00:32
Nov1-VaccineI'm giving you all time to make sure your states are ready this Sunday, as Trump asked them to be.00:34
Nov1-VaccineThis is just a friendly reminder.00:34
tinwhiskersok... err. thanks. 00:34
ryoumathe tongans and italians are prepared00:34
ryoumabecasue of you00:35
DocScrutinizer05Nov1-Vaccine: not funny, really00:35
DocScrutinizer05even while I notice the sarcasm, still not funny00:35
ryoumaNov1-Vaccine is logged in via eu00:37
Nov1-Vaccinehey even Joe Biden was all for the vaccine being ready early: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-covid-vaccine-take/00:38
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Health workers and their families account for 1 in 6 hospital COVID-19 cases: Healthcare workers and their families account for a sixth (17%) of hospital admissions for COVID-19 in the working age population (18-65 years), finds a study from Scotland published by The BMJ today. → https://is.gd/Aw6F7400:38
BrainstormUpdates for US: +3791 cases (now 9.1 million), +51 deaths (now 233077) since an hour ago00:38
Nov1-Vaccine"If I could get a vaccine tomorrow, I'd do it. If it cost me the election I would do it. We need a vaccine and we need it now. We have to listen to the scientists." - Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. Sep 7, 2020.00:39
DocScrutinizer05Nov1-Vaccine: what's yourpoint? this is no comedy channel00:39
Nov1-VaccineDocScrutinizer05, wouldn't it have been better if Biden made a probabilistic argument?00:40
ryoumai didn't even get the markets point.  are they being supposedly talked up?00:40
Nov1-VaccineBiden misled the public about the likelihood of a vaccine being available for the public early00:40
ryoumathat quote did not00:41
ryoumasubjunctive00:41
Nov1-VaccineBiden should have said there's no hope for a vaccine this year, and should have scolded Trump for saying we'd have a vaccine on Nov 1. Instead, Biden said he'd take a vaccine "tomorrow" if he could.00:42
DocScrutinizer05well, unless you mistaken this channel for #politics, I'd think we can agree on the bottom line "Trump lies and everybody knows" - next topic please00:43
Nov1-Vaccineand Biden invoked "the scientists" with his misleading implication that we could get an early vaccine. "The scientists" make probabilistic evaluations, and they've all been saying that "probably" we're not going to have a vaccine until next year.00:43
tinwhiskershrm. I thought you poking fun at the Nov 1 vaccine release... are you serious?00:44
Nov1-Vaccineno DocScrutinizer05 Biden lies too. He misled the public about the safety of early vaccines. 00:44
tinwhiskersbecause... I got some bad news for ya.00:44
tinwhiskerslet's not do this politics thing please.00:44
Nov1-Vaccineit takes 2 Presidential candidates to mislead the public about the virus.00:44
DocScrutinizer05I don't see this getting anywhere regarding cobid at large. You're sure this isn't a topic for #politics rather than here?00:45
Nov1-Vaccineit's a grey zone because in here we'd like to be properly informed about the virus, do we not?00:45
tinwhiskersthis is not informative in any way whatsoever00:45
Nov1-Vaccineso what do we do in this channel when the 2 leading American figures are misleading the public about a possible vaccine?00:46
DocScrutinizer05we talk about relevant stuff instead00:46
ryoumawe don't try to influence the election00:46
Nov1-VaccineI would think that knowing if we should have confidence in the U.S. government's ability to properly vet vaccines would be legitimate in here00:46
Nov1-VaccineBiden suggested what I consider to be an uncomfortable openness to a "fast tracked" vaccine00:47
tinwhiskersdamn the ban list is full00:47
DocScrutinizer05bans are overrated. clean out old cruft :-D00:47
tinwhiskersyeah00:48
tinwhiskersmight get LjL to look at that (nudge nudge)00:48
DocScrutinizer05and thanks :-)00:48
BrainstormNew from BMJ: Covid-19: risks to healthcare workers and their families: Since the beginning of the coronavirus 2019 (covid-19) pandemic, healthcare workers have shown a remarkable resilience and professional dedication despite a fear of becoming infected and infecting... → https://is.gd/lPxVhw00:56
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: REGENERON'S COVID-19 OUTPATIENT TRIAL PROSPECTIVELY DEMONSTRATES THAT REGN-COV2 ANTIBODY COCKTAIL SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED VIRUS LEVELS AND NEED FOR FURTHER MEDICAL ATTENTION (81 votes) | https://investor.regeneron.com/news-releases/news-release-details/regenerons-covid-19-outpatient-trial-prospectively-demonstrates | https://redd.it/jjxmsz01:03
tinwhiskersoh, hi LjL01:04
LjLhi01:05
LjLstandard banlists are pretty annoyingly short01:05
DocScrutinizer05usually sufficient01:05
DocScrutinizer05given the fact most trolls change hostmask anyway after 24h the latest01:06
LjLshould i unmute all the unaffiliated cloaks and matrix cloaks that are banned then because they have probably changed01:07
LjLi can't even tell when things were banned without sifting through logs because netsplits make everything appear as if it had been banned at the same time01:07
DocScrutinizer05I seem to recall it was mostly useless for some reason, but maybe you wanna have a look at /msg ChanServ help akick01:09
LjLthere's also a trick that some channels use these days that involves a newish type of ban that has a semantics of basically "ban everyone who's banned in this other channel", so you can have a channel, or multiple channels, dedicated to bans alone. it's just kinda ugly01:10
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid-19: Nearly 100,000 catching virus every day: A major analysis estimates the number of people infected with Covid-19 is doubling every nine days. → https://is.gd/lyjiFF01:14
DocScrutinizer05>>it's just kinda ugly<< indeed01:15
LjLde-facto, the above (see https://www.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/research-and-impact/groups/react-study/faqs/ ) kinda sorta does what you keep asking for, i.e. random sample swabs, i guess01:23
LjLone thing though "The antigen (PCR) test for coronavirus is generally considered the most accurate test to detect current infection with coronavirus."01:28
LjLi'm confused, didn't we normally call "antigen" the ones that are *not* PCR, which would be also called molecular?01:29
Raf[m]You're mixing up antibody with antigen01:31
DocScrutinizer05nope, I think LjL is correct01:32
LjLIf I'm confused with something, it's definitely not antibody tests01:33
LjLThose are separate and mentioned separately on the very same study FAQ I quoted from01:33
DocScrutinizer05lately we see antigen quicktests type "pregnancy test" that afaik do _not_ involve any PCR, at very least not the way the "gold standard" PCR test works01:34
DocScrutinizer05I can't say if that PCR test involves usage of antigenes, but it's for sure usually not called antigen test01:35
Raf[m]I have never heard it being called an antigen test, but what's the antigen? The virus is the antigen. So presumably it's some test that is directly measuring viral load, not antibodied01:37
DocScrutinizer05https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/industrie/diagnose-tools-im-ueberblick-pcr-antigen-antikoerper-welcher-coronatest-leistet-was/26298962.html01:38
BrainstormUpdates for France: +4231 cases (now 1.2 million) since 4 hours ago — US: +3450 cases (now 9.1 million), +46 deaths (now 233123) since an hour ago — Netherlands: +1 deaths (now 7203) since 8 hours ago01:38
DocScrutinizer05antigens are proteins sticking to the virus01:39
DocScrutinizer05afaik01:39
Raf[m]It could be a bad usage of the word antigen, regardless, the PCR test is the gold standard to determine current infection. Antibody works for previous infection up to a certain point. See Sethuraman 202001:39
Raf[m]Antigens are proteins part of the virus, the antibodies stick to the virus by way of the antigen01:40
DocScrutinizer05the study clearly states they want to send out antigen tests to 100k people01:40
LjLRaf[m]: "antigen tests" are also sometimes called "quick tests" because they can be engineered to be done on the spot, and indeed they're about binding to an antigen and not, like PCR, specific RNA or DNA.01:40
LjLHere's the first description of them I  found: "If the target antigen is present in sufficient concentrations in the sample, it will bind to specific antibodies fixed to a paper strip enclosed in a plastic casing and generate a visually detectable signal, typically within 30 minutes"01:41
Raf[m]If you look at the icon of this room, the pieces of the crown of the virus are the antigens01:41
LjLWhat is the gold standard is not the only thing that matters, and antigen tests can be useful. What is not useful is an institution doing a study like this mixing up the terms :/01:41
LjLRaf[m]: yes, thank you. And?01:42
LjLThose are not RNA, which is what PCR looks at01:42
LjLBeing antigens, they are, indeed, what antigen tests look at01:42
Raf[m]Fair enough, it's definitely wrong then calling the antigen test a PCR test01:42
Raf[m]I was talking to Doc who said the antigens stick to the virus.01:43
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I was wrong. thanks for the update01:44
LjLAh right, yeah those would be antigen *receptors*01:44
Raf[m]on that page you linked they do say this:01:50
Raf[m]"Antigens are anything that can cause an immune response in the body, like viruses and bacteria. In this case, the antigens that the REACT-1 test is looking for are bits of genetic material from the coronavirus. For the test, a person needs to take a swab of their nose and throat and send the sample off for testing in a laboratory. The lab test that detects whether coronavirus genetic material is present in a sample or not01:50
Raf[m]is called PCR (polymerase chain reaction). This indicates whether someone is currently infected."01:50
Raf[m]that's why they are calling the anitgen test a PCR test01:50
Raf[m]re: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/research-and-impact/groups/react-study/faqs/ "What’s the difference between the antigen and antibody tests?"01:51
Raf[m]if anything I think the usage of the term "antigen test" should be discouraged - it's not very clear. You're right that in other context it could mean the rapid antibody test, not PCR. but it's important to note that the "antigen" being referenced in a rapid test is the proprietary part of the test itself which the subject's antibody is reacting01:59
LjLWait not the rapid antibody test02:01
Raf[m]is there another test?02:01
LjLIt's true that it *involves* antibodies but it is not the test that tests for antibodies!02:01
LjLYes02:01
LjLThere are three things02:01
Raf[m]are you talking about dried blood samples?02:02
LjLantibody tests are usually from blood, yeah02:02
LjLbut nobody calls the rapid non-antibody tests "antibody tests", thankfully, even though they can *use* antibodies to make the detection02:02
LjLthey call "antibody tests" the ones where you detect if the *person* has antibodies circulating02:03
Raf[m]gotcha02:03
LjLsee this site for instance which distinguishes between the three types https://www.finddx.org/covid-19/sarscov2-eval/ (and it's a useful site)02:04
LjL"molecular" here is basically the classic PCR tests02:04
LjL(not basically, it is)02:04
Raf[m]ok, yeah molecular means RNA/DNA like you said before. I didn't know there were 3 tests, in that I didn't know antigen test was a "thing"02:05
LjLthe distinction is also made here https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/coronavirus-testing-basics02:06
LjL"Currently there are two types of diagnostic tests which detect the virus – molecular tests, such as RT-PCR tests, that detect the virus’s genetic material, and antigen tests that detect specific proteins on the surface of the virus." and then it talks about antibody tests separately02:06
Raf[m]got it02:06
LjLi just wonder... if you can use PCR tests to detect antigens like the spike protein, instead of RNA, but i don't think so. but i hope something justifies the sloppy language in that FAQ02:07
Raf[m]yeah it got me totally confused02:07
DocScrutinizer05https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigen02:08
LjLDocScrutinizer05, at the outside, and that can bind to a receptor. so that certainly rules out RNA being an antigen :P02:08
DocScrutinizer05yes, absolutely02:09
LjLmeh, i hope the REACT study was executed better than its website was02:09
DocScrutinizer05antigens are unrelated to PCR unless in some late step of the PCR test they are needed as a reagent or whatever02:10
DocScrutinizer05calling a PCR test an antigen test is nonsense02:10
LjLokay we all agree now, except for the Imperial College02:11
Raf[m]you can combine antibody and molecular tests with something like ChIPmentation but that's not what we're talking about here, for example bind antibodies to the histone proteins and then use RNA-seq, etc. yeah in this case it's a total misnomer, the fact of the matter is I thought they were calling the PCR test an "antigen" test because they were measuring the active viral load02:11
Raf[m]I learned there's a 3rd test so that rules it out. Yeah IC is wrong about that one!02:11
BrainstormNew from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: DECRETO-LEGGE 28 ottobre 2020, n.137: Ulteriori misure urgenti in materia di tutela della salute,  sostegnoai  lavoratori  e  alle  imprese,  giustizia  e  sicurezza,  connesseall'emergenza epidemiologica da Covid-19. (20G00166) → https://is.gd/RMtC5q02:16
DocScrutinizer05hah, I can read italian, it just takes around 3 minutes for one sentence ;-D02:19
DocScrutinizer05missnf words: tutela sostegnoai02:20
LjLDocScrutinizer05, you're excused about "sostegnoai" because it's actually two words with a space missing02:22
LjL"sostegno ai", support to the02:22
LjLtutela is uh02:22
LjLpreservation02:22
ryoumai don't think the space would help ... oh sustenacne?02:22
LjLryouma, it means support, but it is a cognate with sustenance02:22
LjL"tutela" is a very latin word, of the kind that i imagine were used in legal discourse in rome already02:23
LjLhttps://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tutela#Latin02:23
LjL%w tutelage02:24
BrainstormLjL, tutelage  — noun: 1. The act of guarding, protecting, or guiding; guardianship; protection, 2. The state of being under a guardian or a tutor; care or protection enjoyed, 3. Instruction; teaching; guidance → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tutelage02:24
LjLthis is a cognate but i didn't know it02:24
ryouma.tr <it Ulteriori misure urgenti in materia di tutela della salute,  sostegnoai lavoratori  e  alle  imprese,  giustizia e  sicurezza,  connesseall'emergenza epidemiologica da Covid-1902:25
Brainstormryouma, Italian to English: Further urgent measures in the field of health protection, support for workers and businesses, justice and safety, connected to the epidemiological emergency from Covid-19 (Google) [... want %more?]02:25
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Coronavirus: France and Germany have announced second national lockdowns → https://is.gd/EnKXeD02:25
LjLanyway this decree is very long but yeah it's all about support measures, no surprise lockdowns here02:25
LjLthere is something about GP doctors doing antigen tests (heh)02:26
LjLand 30 million being allocated for it. but i doubt GPs will want to come even near them. they are already not answering calls.02:26
LjLand a new "phone service" for positive people to do contact tracing, as they no longer want to have people physically going and doing the contact tracing02:27
LjLwon't/can't02:27
LjLso basically it's left up to people who test positive to call this number and describe their contacts02:28
LjLif they don't, no contact tracing happens02:28
LjLthis includes people testing as contacts with the app, they have to call this number02:28
DocScrutinizer05hah, same shit like in Berlin02:30
DocScrutinizer05>>Hey Joe, you recall we met 5 days ago in that shop? well, errr... I got tested positive and you should consider self quarantining and search to get a test too<< who would possibly boggle to do such a phonecall :-S02:36
LjLDocScrutinizer05, no wait you don't have to call your contacts directly from what i understand, you "just" have to tell this special phone number about your contacts. then presumably they will... contact them02:38
LjLbut still, i bet for most people who test positive that's not exactly their first priority02:38
LjLplus, if to test positive you now have to rely on your GP to give you an antigen test, well, that won't happen, so02:39
LjLno more positives, no more problems!02:39
LjLbut then, we knew testing and contact tracing abilities were past their max. they said it plainly enough. so now they're doing the closest they have (which is not much)02:40
LjLi'm still mad though because i'm sure they could have allocated more resources to these things during the summer02:40
DocScrutinizer05LjL: yeah, you're still doing better than Berlin. In Berlin it's actually like ^^^02:42
LjLgreat :(02:44
ryoumais it an attitude of everybody including politicians trying to just do business as usual just reflexively doing whatever little measures they can to make it so they can keep doing what they always do?02:46
ryoumai really don't want this thing to go into 2022.  or longer.  my health is really being hit hard by inability to do things for it due to this.02:47
ryoumaand even more existential risks all ove rthe place and i was already dealing with those02:48
de-factoLjL, very nice thank you for linking it, i did not know about REACT before02:56
LjLryouma, i don't have those physical issues but if i think about this situation continuing into 2022 i can't imagine i get out of it with an ounce of sanity left02:57
LjLi wouldn't say to only think about the short term, clearly politicians are doing enough of that02:58
LjLbut let's try thinking about just as long a term as we can without wanting to jump of a cliff i guess02:58
LjLi don't know02:58
metreohttps://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Philippines-Is-Getting-Ready-To-Drill-For-Oil-And-Gas.html02:59
de-factooh LjL btw remember you discovered that decline in antibodies in the UK COVID-19 reports we talked about with dTal? I think they may have made a paper out of it (if its the same data/people?)03:00
de-facto%title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.26.20219725v103:01
Brainstormde-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: Declining prevalence of antibody positivity to SARS-CoV-2: a community study of 365,000 adults | medRxiv03:01
de-factothey even mention REACT2 in there03:01
LjLi was about to say03:02
LjLmy mind is a bit clouded and i don't remember if i saw the paper or what it was that i saw03:02
LjLi was told about this by a friend03:02
LjLde-facto, it might have been a different thing (just that reached the same conclusion)03:03
LjLbecause the thing i saw was from studies done in blood donors03:03
LjLthe issue with that was that the criteria for donating blood had changed during the time they took successive samples03:04
LjLso at some point people over 70 were included and at some point they weren't03:04
LjLand i was wondering why they couldn't just factor them out, but it was pointed out to me that maybe the data was anonymized03:04
LjLso this seems different if it's based on REACT2 data03:04
de-factolet me see if i can find it again03:07
LjLboth of them should go into the links page now that they corroborate each other03:08
de-factopage ~40 on https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/923668/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_40.pdf03:09
LjLyes03:09
LjLp. 42-4303:10
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New Zealand sends 500 military staff to bolster quarantine facilities → https://is.gd/P62bou03:10
LjLi found it too03:10
LjLalso p. 44 has something about testing people <65 to avoid the issues, possibly03:10
de-factointeresting03:13
LjLde-facto, "Samples were tested using both the Abbott and EuroImmun assay." ← this is "interesting" because while EuroImmun's evaluation is "pending finalization", Abbot was "withdrawn from the evaluation prior to start" (and it doesn't say why) at https://www.finddx.org/covid-19/sarscov2-eval-antibody/03:13
de-factohmm weird03:16
LjLthat page looked very different a while ago, in fact it had a different URL to begin with, so not easy to reconstruct the story there03:17
LjLRaf[m], sorry i was rather snappy about the whole antigen/antibody/PCR thing, it was confusing because they made it confusing, was the fault of no one here. i am just cranky.03:18
de-factoLjL, maybe it has something to do with this? https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31830-4/fulltext03:19
de-factono idea though just a quick google find03:20
Raf[m]Understandable since I didn't know there was an antigen test separately. At the end of the discussion we were all on the same page so that says something for sure heh03:21
LjLde-facto, argh03:25
de-factohttps://www.medtechdive.com/news/abbott-roche-antibody-tests-may-not-confirm-covid-19-immunity-study-finds/583610/03:25
de-factowell when i remember correctly Drosten said something about this in his podcast: all such antibody tests would have to be "calibrated" to a specific population testing cohort to find the correct thresholds for positive results etc03:26
de-factoin particular the discussion was about if antibody tests in Africa could be simply be done exactly the same as in Europe and the conclusion was no not at all, they would have to be completely newly calibrated to the population there being exposed to a lot of other antigens etc03:27
LjLde-facto, i don't really understand what that means. i thought just finding that they were sensitive and specific when compared to a gold standard ELISA test was good to go03:27
LjLi see03:27
LjLpicking up things that you didn't expect03:28
LjLde-facto, well, at least they have been using two in combination03:28
de-factoi also dont understand the technical details, i just remember they discussed about this being a challenge for such studies03:28
de-factoyeah indeed03:28
LjLpostit: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31830-4/fulltext may explain why the Abbot antibody test was crossed out of https://www.finddx.org/covid-19/sarscov2-eval-antibody/ and may make the results of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/923668/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_40.pdf (p. 41-44) and https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.26.20219725v103:29
LjL a little weaker03:29
LjLnevermind me, this is my new middle ground between putting on the links page and just talking about it03:30
LjLthis way i can grep it in the logs :P03:30
de-factogood idea03:31
de-facto%title https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/142386 the medtechdive links to this study 03:33
Brainstormde-facto: From insight.jci.org: JCI Insight - Heterogeneous antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 spike receptor binding domain and nucleocapsid with implications for COVID-19 immunity03:33
de-facto"University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center researchers cautioned in a study published on Friday against the "extensive use" of serology tests from Abbott, Roche and other diagnostics companies that only confirm the presence of certain antibodies and may mislead people to falsely believe they have protection against COVID-19 reinfection."03:34
de-facto"While researchers contend the presence of the so-called S-RBD antibody is the best indicator of any potential protection against reinfection, they warned that widely used serological tests confirm only the presence of antibodies to the N-protein."03:34
de-facto"Currently, more than 200 commercial and hospital laboratory testing facilities use these N-protein based serology tests for determination of potential COVID-19 immunity, according to researchers. They noted that as of Aug. 5, Abbott has shipped over 13 million serological tests and Roche is expected to produce more than 10 million tests for the U.S. Neither Abbott nor Roche were immediately available for comment regarding the study."03:35
LjLde-facto, sounds like we shouldn't be getting antibody tests just yet even if we have the chance03:36
LjLi mean, if we suspect we've had it03:36
de-factoi would guess its not all antibody tests having this S vs N RBD issue though03:37
de-factoand now that its known it may be solved03:38
LjLde-facto, maybe, but that page listing antibody test evaluations has just 4 completed for now, i'd wait for more and for more clarification of this issue03:38
de-factoacutally a few months ago i asked my doctor about if i could get an EUROIMMUN antibody test (if i pay for it) out of curiosity, but back then they said: "nope, sorry you are not medical personal"03:39
LjLmy cousin got an antibody test, because it was cheaper than the PCR tests her parents (much more at risk) got03:39
LjLshe tested negative but that's not a surprise since she had it after less than a week of potentially getting COVID03:39
LjL(her mother tested positive, her father negative, on PCR)03:39
LjLde-facto, well that may have changed now, availability and all03:40
de-factoi hope they are fine?03:40
DocScrutinizer05antibody tests are just useful for epidemiologic purposes, they don't tell any useful info for the tested individual03:40
LjLde-facto, so far so good. my aunt had fever for a bit in excess of a week and joint pains but the fever's gone, and my cousin only had fever for a day or two. i worry a bit about the husband because he smokes a lot and recently had surgery. they are "distancing at home", but you know that's very hard in practice03:41
LjLDocScrutinizer05, eh, i wouldn't go so far. if i'd had fever and other prominent issues but for some reason i couldn't get a PCR test at the time, i'd try to get an antibody test. i'd want to know whether i had COVID or something else.03:42
LjL(where by "for some reason" i mean... most people who've had COVID haven't actually had a PCR test, probably)03:43
LjLmy cousin's test was just a waste of money though. it was cheaper, but also useless. their PCR tests were €80 each, their public healthcare doctor declined to prescribe them, so they got them privately :\03:44
de-factoLjL, i hope for the best for them, so far may end all still well for them03:44
LjLi can't fathom having fever for a week and my GP going "naaah, i won't prescribe you a COVID test, just stay at home and rest"03:45
DocScrutinizer05LjL: well, yeah, it might tell you if you had covid or sth else. But that's about all it can tell you03:45
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canadian Children's soccer club hires security firm after parents rage against COVID-19 rules → https://is.gd/xej4ya03:45
DocScrutinizer05and even that is not a very reliable info03:45
LjLwell that's why i said we should probably wait until they're better validated03:45
LjLbut presuming they *can* tell whether i've had it or not... if i had had obvious symptoms, i'd want to know. maybe other people wouldn't, that's fine, but i would.03:46
DocScrutinizer05you however can't use this info for any further conclusions anyway03:46
de-factoLjL i think you got a point, antibody tests should be used by scientists for well calibrated seroprevalence studies03:46
DocScrutinizer05it won't chance your life really03:47
DocScrutinizer05change*03:47
LjL"needing to know" is an essential part of being human03:47
de-factovery true03:47
de-facto%title https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4418/10/7/45303:50
Brainstormde-facto: From www.mdpi.com: Diagnostics | Free Full-Text | COVID-19 Serological Tests: How Well Do They Actually Perform?03:50
de-factoquite interesting and also their graph about antibody levels https://www.mdpi.com/diagnostics/diagnostics-10-00453/article_deploy/html/images/diagnostics-10-00453-g004.png03:50
de-factoits their figure 4 in html (also available as pdf though) https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4418/10/7/453/htm03:52
LjLi think i will make a "Diagnostics" section in the links list. for now i've tucked them either in "Science" or in "Epidemiology" if they are about antibody surveys. i will probably leave the surveys there but put *evaluations* of diagnostics in the new section... how does that sound?03:53
de-factoso what would that mean? IgM going above detectable threshold no earlier than ~6th day post exposure to pathogen? and for igG it woudl be no earlier than ~10th day?03:54
de-factogood idea probably since its an independent subject from epidemiology 03:55
de-factoevaluations of diagnostics03:56
LjLi should admit that honestly i haven't a good idea what subjects fall into epidemiology, so i kinda put everything that had to do with "who are the patients and where are we finding them and how and stuff" there03:56
LjLde-facto, if that graph is not just qualitative, what i would take from it is that IgM *can* sort of be used as a diagnostic as long as you've had symptoms for at least a couple of days, not so much the other ones. but that's assuming a very sensitive test03:57
de-factohmm maybe yet i dont have any idea about the reliability of that (also afaik IgM is much less specific than igG and how reliable that timing is idk)04:00
de-factosince its the antigen itself causing the infection risk why not directly test for it then?04:00
de-factoor its recipe (the RNA) with PCR04:00
metreoit's more a question about amplification04:01
de-factooh yes good point04:01
metreothis has changed at different times thoughout the pandemic (at least in the US that I know of)04:01
LjLde-facto, why not... because apparently, doctors tell people not to get tested because there aren't enough tests or something (here, at least, and in my indirect experience). so anything that "sort of works" is on the table at this point04:02
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19: Nearly 100,000 catching virus every day → https://is.gd/pBraK004:03
metreohttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html04:03
metreo"This number of amplification cycles needed to find the virus, called the  cycle threshold, is never included in the results sent to doctors and  coronavirus patients, although it could tell them how infectious the  patients are."04:03
metreofwiw PCR tests can be *incredibly* sensitive with enough amplification04:03
de-factoi think at some point there is a cut off though because it may be unreliable then 04:05
de-factolike contamination or whatever, afaik they just stop at some Ct value and call it negative04:05
metreoyes, though it's more subjective than a simple pass/fail result 04:06
metreoand so the tests are biased towards producing false-positives generally04:06
de-factoyes their testing pipeline needs to be evaluated on constant basis afaik at least in Germany they need to pass certification04:06
metreoin the US the CDC is directly involved in setting those constants04:07
de-factothere was discussion about that and they have many ways of ensuring there are no false positives for the way they use PCR tests04:07
metreothat's interesting04:07
metreowould have been helpful last spring and over the summer :'(04:08
de-factoi always like to show people this graph of Australia requiring 2080 PCR tests to find one positive case https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tests-per-confirmed-case-daily-smoothed?tab=chart&time=earliest..latest&country=~AUS04:08
de-factoso false positive rates must be WAY below that 04:09
metreowhy is it a rolling average I wonder?04:10
de-factohmm probably to make it less noisy and a smoother curve04:10
metreonever see it used much before 04:11
de-factoits just the nature of such time series data to be quite noisy, so it may look uglier than a nice smoothed curve 04:12
metreoyeah I guess, I don't like data transforms much personally04:12
de-factoprobably the raw data is in their github  datasets04:12
metreoat least provide a note why the manipulation was necessary04:13
metreothey never do though :(04:13
metreosmart people writing only for the eyes of other smart people04:13
metreoplebians need not understand :P04:13
de-factoits all available on their github if you are interested in reading into their source code and raw data etc https://github.com/owid04:17
metreoI already have relaible data sources04:18
de-factoLjL, ok correction, that graphic there is "This graphic is for illustrative purposes only and does not represent actual levels of each antibody."04:26
de-factoso its not real data but only for demonstrating how the expected curves would look like04:26
de-factothey link some sources in their section 5 above that graph there though04:28
de-factobut it seems many write similar conclusions between the lines exactly as you said earlier, antibody tests reliability is not yet established 04:32
de-factoat least outside of calibrated scientific studies04:33
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A country on lockdown with no cases of the coronavirus, has the first two cases brought by the United States. → https://is.gd/TpxD8o04:38
DocScrutinizer05now is this just me or is this worldnews stuff ^^^ rather void of any meaningful info?04:41
LjLit depends04:42
LjLi think some times it posts important "milestone" news about lockdowns and such04:42
DocScrutinizer05on what exactly? the _only_ thing I see is this foggy "headline"04:43
LjLit doesn't post a lot of scientific news, but that's okay, this channel isn't meant to be just about the science04:43
LjLthen in some cases, like this one, it's not really all that useful04:43
DocScrutinizer05aaah, ok04:43
LjLwhat do you mean "the only thing you see is this foggy headline"? what else do you expect to see? the bot sure can't post the whole article into the channel04:43
LjLheadlines are often misleading but that's not my fault04:43
LjLif some specific source consistently posts cruft, let me know and i'll remove it. but not just based on this one headline, or even on *sometimes* posting irrelevant stuff, if there is also a decent amount of relevant stuff04:44
DocScrutinizer05https://i.imgur.com/ER4rjAm.png04:44
LjLDocScrutinizer05, the actual article is the "rnz.co.nz/intern..." link just below the headline. in the old reddit interface, you *clicked* on the headline, and i found that a lot more intuitive04:45
DocScrutinizer05I mean literally on that page is no more than what the bot already posted here04:45
LjLReddit's new interface is basically crap but they are going ahead with it anyway04:45
LjLliterally on that page there are comments, if no one has commented yet, then there are no comments, but the main thing is the link to the article that headline is about04:46
DocScrutinizer05o.O  thanks04:46
LjLit's just how reddit always works. if you want an older but saner interface change every "www.reddit.com" link into "old.reddit.com" (or be logged in and opt out of the redesigned interface)04:46
DocScrutinizer05I'd rather opt out of reddit, but that's just me04:49
LjLDocScrutinizer05, it is one of the few places that still has RSS, and very configurable at it, whereas many news venues have decided it doesn't give them enough ad views, or something04:50
LjLand it often provides information well before it comes from other sources04:50
LjLand r/coronavirus and r/COVID19 provide a lot of scientific papers for this channel04:51
LjLsorry but i just don't see anything wrong with it04:51
LjLi can change the RSS links so they always point to the old interface, if that helps04:51
DocScrutinizer05nah, nevermind. I just don't like reddit but that's my private pet about hating getting profiled and a lot about the terrible interface of that service04:52
Raf[m]the funny thing is the headline was a bit of a misnomer, kwaj is part of the US04:55
LjLheadlines almost universally suck04:55
LjLthey're generally not written by the same person who writes the article04:56
LjLand they're designed to attract clicks, not to reflect the article's content04:56
Raf[m]exactly04:56
LjLbut this is true of just about *all* headlines on *all* papers, so not much i can do about it :(04:56
LjLmost subreddits don't allow editing the headline and they will remove your post if you do. i guess it would be nice if they allowed it to the extent of making it reflect the article better, but that would likely require too much mod-manpower04:57
DocScrutinizer05TIL: when seeing "r/\(.*\)" -> google \1  -->  https://www.startpage.com/do/search?query=A+country+on+lockdown+with+no+cases+of+the+coronavirus%2C+has+the+first+two+cases+brought+by+the+United+States05:04
tinwhiskersI just see a scottish man wearing a sash05:05
LjLalso i realize the headline *is* edited so i'm going to flag the post05:08
BrainstormNew from This Week In Virology: TWiV 676: Tragic gene flow from Neanderthals: In this episode we explain how regions of the human genome associated with severe COVID-19 are identified, the finding that one of these regions was inherited from Neanderthals, and prolonged SARS-CoV-2 reproduction in an immunocompromised patient. → https://is.gd/E0LVVv05:09
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +21048 cases (now 368337), +132 deaths (now 11170) since 23 hours ago — France: +9110 cases (now 1.2 million) since 3 hours ago — US: +2820 cases (now 9.1 million), +7 deaths (now 233130) since 3 hours ago — Netherlands: +1112 cases (now 321103), +15 deaths (now 7218) since 3 hours ago05:09
LjLi guess Belgium has decided to just die off, uh?05:09
LjLif France is on full lockdown, comparatively Belgium should be on i don't know, state of siege05:10
de-factodamn 21k cases is a LOT05:10
de-factothere are just 11.5M people in Belgium05:11
de-factoit would be a good idea to have more coordinated containment in EU05:14
de-factoalso they seem to buy antigen quicktests05:14
DocScrutinizer05Belgium is the new Italy05:15
LjLBelgium was faring worse than Italy already back when Italy was faring badly05:15
LjLtheir numbers were always scary, now they're just scarier05:15
de-factoBelgium was the worst hit EU country already in the first wave afaik05:15
de-factoindeed05:16
de-factodamn :(05:16
DocScrutinizer05it's a disaster in Belgium05:16
LjLhttp://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy;Belgium&byPopulation=yes look, Belgium passed Italy on April 1405:16
de-factohow come btw? anything specific about it?05:16
DocScrutinizer05they already _are_ in "no control at all, collapsing healthcare" state05:17
DocScrutinizer05no idea05:17
LjLi really don't know, but i know their government is *very* fragmented, they are federal in an extreme way05:17
LjLTimvde may or may not know more, but is probably also sleeping05:17
DocScrutinizer05yeah05:17
de-factoi feel sorry for them, hope they will regain control and bring incidence down again05:18
tinwhiskersshouldn't you be asleep by now LjL?05:18
de-factoit almost causes me physical pain when i see such numbers05:18
tinwhiskers(I'm not trying to get rid of you, fwiw)05:19
DocScrutinizer05or you might say, they're just 3 weeks ahead05:19
LjLbut Lombardy recorded around 7000 today. residents are about as many as Belgium's. if it keep rising this way i won't be surprised to see 20k in one day, in, say, a couple of weeks05:19
LjLtinwhiskers, yes, but i should do many things i don't :(05:19
tinwhiskers:-)05:19
MatCatIf you like snakes come on over to ##snakes ! https://www.dropbox.com/s/dd5kwz7pffddl3o/caramel-motley-tesssera-male-small4cornsnakescom.png?raw=105:19
DocScrutinizer05/invite sigyn05:21
DocScrutinizer05:-/05:21
LjLno thanks05:22
DocScrutinizer05a comment, not a suggestion05:22
LjLi've seen sigyn misfire a bit too many times for my liking05:22
LjL(including k-lining my bot :P)05:22
DocScrutinizer05"has left this channel." should read "has left server (k-lined)"05:23
LjLi did tell #freenode05:23
DocScrutinizer05ta :-)05:23
LjL(but now someone who's probably a troll is asking what channel was involved and i'm just going to ignore them)05:23
DocScrutinizer05if it's not freenode/staff it's likely a troll05:25
LjLbut if it is freenode/staff it's *certainly* a troll :P05:26
LjL*cough*05:26
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: France imposes new national lockdown as virus deaths mount → https://is.gd/BRanAa05:27
de-factoI still wonder for most countries fatalities are still below their first fatality wave (fortunately), in relation to their cases second peak being hugely bigger than the first wave05:29
LjLde-facto, if you look at the "bad" ones though, the deaths are getting very clearly exponential too05:29
LjLi still think it's mostly due to different ages being involved05:30
de-factois it due to (and if to what part) a) more testing b) demographics c) better treatment d) delay in fatalities e) etc pp05:30
LjLand you know, many so-called more vulnerable people being already dead05:30
de-factoyes fatalities definitely are exponential curves in almost all of the countries with big second peaks05:30
de-factoi am not so sure about the wearing off of vulnerables yet05:31
de-factoafaik they may be better shielded05:31
LjLit's hard to shield them well, personnel still has to be around, even if you have no visits05:31
de-factobut also i read again about outbreaks in elderly homes (quite near our city here)05:31
de-factoso unfortunately shielding does not really work it seems :(05:31
LjLa) is certain, there is more testing and we're catching; b) i definitely think so c) not so much based on what prominent doctors here have said d) sure, but you can see how much delay there is in the countries where both curves are already clear05:31
ryoumaone thing is if you are vulnerable you ALSO have to deal with your health issues05:32
de-factobasically i am wondering if incidence curves are not really comparable between first and second waves (due to large differences in testing strategies), how much more comparable the curves for fatalities would be between their first and second peaks05:33
DocScrutinizer05France at least recommends home office05:33
de-factoprobably demographics is the biggest difference  between first and second waves in terms of fatalities05:33
ryoumameaning second wave is younger?05:36
de-factoyes i think so05:36
LjLsecond wave is *definitely* younger. i'm not saying other factors don't play a role, but that one is an obvious factor05:37
LjL(for now, at least, it is)05:37
de-factoand that would make a big difference since IFR ~ 100% Exp[ Log[2] age / 5.75 ] / 182005:37
de-factoyes for now, it seems median age of infected is on the raise05:37
DocScrutinizer05it is05:38
de-factoat least in some places05:38
DocScrutinizer05since several weeks now05:38
de-factoso that means prevalence is diffusing towards the vulnerable elderly and in their social circles of similar age05:39
ryoumain what backs of minds or back rooms if any is it being said or thought that that is not a bad thing -- that there is some kind of social good or justice being done by the virus?  and in which of those minds or rooms, if any, is long covid and personal circle considered?05:41
de-factoactually those effects already could explain the differences between first and second waves, i see no reason to assume IFR itself would have changed e.g. due to mutations or such, i would assume its still just as fatal as in the first wave05:41
LjLde-facto, about https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4418/10/7/453 a small caveat: i looked up the journal and it's actually dozens of journalS that MDPI publishes, and they are "author-pays" open access journals. i've heard not so good things about those05:41
de-factooh i did not know that before, thanks for telling05:43
LjLde-facto, not only it's still just as fatal, but as the infection moves from younger ages to older ages, it probably has a LOT more momentum i.e. more cases to "transfer over" (yes, it could also be that there is more testing, but come on, when you look at France or Belgium, it's just an awfully huge number of cases)05:43
DocScrutinizer05by the way - I pimped http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics.htm a bit, and I'm miffed about the sine noise escaping the 7d average smoothing filter now, as you can see on R_eff curves. Which is expected on extreme exponential (non-linear) growth but nevertheless hard to filter out05:43
ryoumais it consensus that there will most likely be a safe-for-most and effective-for-most vaccine05:44
de-factoLjL, yes makes sense that would mean we should expect a faster increase in fatalities than in incidence at some point when shielding is in the process of collapsing due to the load of the incidence05:45
LjLi think so de-facto :(05:45
LjLit's a pessimistic prediction, but i don't really make optimistic ones05:45
DocScrutinizer05ryouma: yes05:46
DocScrutinizer05re "more testing"  doesn't really apply to Germany. It's the percentage of positive tests that rises, while total number is relatively steady05:47
de-factoLjL, better to be surprised by better than expected outcome than not to assume that an effect making it worse may play a significant role05:47
de-factoDocScrutinizer05, yeah but at the very beginning there were severe restrictions to testing in Germany, e.g. having to had contact to a confirmed case or being symptomatic or such, thats different now05:49
de-factoduring the time of the second wave there were not significant changes in testing though as you said05:49
de-factoso its very difficult to compare incidence first and second waves05:50
de-factomaybe comparing (delayed) fatalities may reflect a closer relation between first and second waves when demographics became more comparable (hopefully effective shielding can prevent that to some degree though)05:52
DocScrutinizer05>>difficult to compare<< indeed05:53
de-factomaybe its not comparable at all with simple eyeballing methods05:53
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Next crop of COVID-19 vaccine developers take more traditional route → https://is.gd/AoYNrb05:54
DocScrutinizer05oh it still is, it just has different multipliers05:54
de-factobut even those drift with time05:54
DocScrutinizer05everything is drifting ;-) but yeah, changing protection measures at entry of a senior hostal because e.g. antigen tests become available will have quite some impace og total_infactions/elderly_infections ratio obviously05:56
DocScrutinizer05impact too05:57
de-factobtw i think the periodicity escaping the rolling 7 day average is due to the steep exponential raise, e.g. asymmetry of periodicity that more recent data is overexposed with exponential weight06:00
de-factowell the data itself is accurate of course but the periodicity is amplified for more recent data points due to the steep expoential amplification factor06:01
de-factoso maybe periodicity should be removed before calculating the reproduction by quotient06:02
de-factoe.g. making stats about how much specific days of week usually are above/below the extremely smoothed rolling average and then divide raw data by a specific factor for each day of the week?06:03
de-facto(arbitrary) example: Mondays are only at 80% of avg incidence, Tuesdays at 90%, ... Thursdays at 120%, etc06:05
de-factoalways wanted to implement that myself, e.g. smoothing with 7 sliding Gaussian kernels on "date mod weekday" but still could not motivate myself to write it in code06:11
de-factoresulting in a sliding histogram over one week that can be used for smoothing out the periodicity on the raw data by applying it with an adjustable multiplicative factor such as "smoothing strength"06:14
DocScrutinizer05>>due to the steep exponential raise<< yeah, that's what I tried to say06:14
de-factoi mean the calculation of reproduction by quotient of two sliding averages separated by one serial time is not meant to specifically address filtering out periodicity, its just a useful side effect that periodicity is dampened for a window size that is the same as the periodicity06:17
DocScrutinizer05my epidemiologist expert suggested folding phase filtering which happens to be one of the methods used in nowcasting06:17
de-factoyes rki uses smoothed incidence for calculation of reproduction06:18
de-factoor nowcasting yeah06:18
de-factowhat do you mean by "folding phase filtering"?06:19
DocScrutinizer05https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_dispersion_minimization06:23
DocScrutinizer05phasefolding06:23
de-factooh nice06:25
de-factothanks :)06:27
DocScrutinizer05so *basically* it's exactly what you suggested above06:28
DocScrutinizer05we even already know the period time which clearly is 1 week06:29
de-factoyeah for unknown periodicity bin sizes06:29
de-factoyes exactly06:29
de-factoif you restrict the bin size to e.g. only that 1 week i would expect less harm done to real peaks such as the tönnies peak 06:32
DocScrutinizer05there's not much harm done *to* peaks, there is some harm done *by* peaks06:33
DocScrutinizer05you'll notice a "rebound" effect exactly one week later06:33
de-factowhat i meant is that "generic" smoothing without directly targeting periodicity will also wash out real peaks06:36
de-factoso an ideal algo would leave the Tönnies peak alone while removing only weekly periodicity06:37
BrainstormUpdates for Lombardy, Italy: +7558 cases (now 170526), +47 deaths (now 17357) since a day ago — France: +8993 cases (now 1.3 million), +18 deaths (now 35803) since an hour ago — Netherlands: +2039 cases (now 323142), +15 deaths (now 7233) since an hour ago — United Kingdom: +1549 cases (now 943824), +8 deaths (now 45720) since 13 hours ago06:39
TimvdeLjL: we're pretty much on this-is-not-a-lockdown-we-swear again07:08
TimvdeWe have a curfew, and pretty much everything except stores is closed07:09
TimvdeAnd people can still have one close contact outside of their household instead of nobody, I guess that's the most loose rule which I believe should go, because it still connects households...07:12
TimvdeAdd an exception for people who live alone, that they can "join" the inner circle of another household, at least you keep them closed off that way07:13
BrainstormNew preprint: COVID-19 Disease Map, a computational knowledge repository of SARS-CoV-2 virus-host interaction mechanisms by Marek Ostaszewski et al, published on 2020-10-28 at https://biorxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.10.26.356014 [... want %more?]07:20
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_ITALIA: “Con un lockdown anticipato l’Italia avrebbe salvato 25 mila vite. Non ripetiamo lo stesso errore” Lo studio del Crimedim di Novara, il Centro di ricerca in medicina dei disastri dell’Upo, in collaborazione con l’Imperial College di Londra e l’Università Federico II di Napoli → https://is.gd/2F7rgF07:32
BrainstormUpdates for US: +1049 cases (now 9.1 million), +7 deaths (now 233137) since 3 hours ago — Switzerland: +9 deaths (now 2167) since 16 hours ago08:05
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Global COVID Cases For 29OCT20 → https://is.gd/OiN0sB08:25
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Analysis Shows Nearly a Third of COVID-19 Patients Have Brain Abnormalities → https://is.gd/83LKYr09:09
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Diseases, Conditions, Syndromes: How does the coronavirus affect the heart? → https://is.gd/Zc6IjZ09:18
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Short of medics as virus surges, central Europe sounds alarm: Soldiers in Poland are giving coronavirus tests. American National Guard troops with medical training are headed to the Czech Republic to work alongside doctors there. A Czech university student is running blood samples to labs, and the mayor of the capital is taking [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/oWOJ8709:27
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Some COVID-19 "long haulers" experience lasting skin problems: Some patients with COVID-19 have persistent skin-related symptoms long after their initial infection has cleared, according to a new analysis. The findings, presented at the 29th Congress of the European Academy of Dermatology and Venereology by investigators at [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/oEh23J09:36
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Health: Is it safe to lick the ballot envelope? Public health officials take on the new challenge of making voting safe amid a pandemic → https://is.gd/rZ1xMU09:45
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Schools teach by text message as Covid widens Philippine digital divide → https://is.gd/VgTRXr10:03
BrainstormNew from The Atlantic: Donald Trump, Coronavirus Hero: The far-right group Super Happy Fun America protests in Boston on October 18. (Mark Peterson / Redux) Kurtis, a young accountant in McKinney, Texas, likes the thing that many people hate about Donald Trump: that the president has left the pandemic response almost entirely up to local officials. → https://is.gd/xPJpL210:12
BrainstormNew from ProPublica: The Questionable Line Items of Illinois’ COVID-19 Spending: by Ash Ngu ProPublica Illinois is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to get weekly updates about our work. Last week, we published Grenades, Bread and Body Bags: How Illinois Has Spent $1.6 Billion in Response to COVID-19 So Far , a story and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/tt7SvC10:30
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: French students age 6 and up must wear masks in class: PM: French schools will require all students aged six and over to wear face masks in class, Prime Minister Jean Castex said Thursday ahead of a new coronavirus lockdown starting at midnight. → https://is.gd/aAdM1T11:06
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: France braces for monthlong lockdown as virus deaths mount: French doctors expressed relief but business owners were in despair as France prepared Thursday to shut down again for a month to try to put the brakes on a fast-moving fall coronavirus outbreak. → https://is.gd/kkC2xF11:15
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Merkel warns Germans of a 'difficult winter' as virus surges: Chancellor Angela Merkel told Germans to expect a "difficult winter" as the number of newly reported coronavirus cases in the country hit a new high. → https://is.gd/P2kHAb11:24
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Mexico passes 90,000 virus deaths, Argentina records 30,000: Two Latin American countries hard hit by coronavirus each recorded another bleak moment in the pandemic on Wednesday with Mexico exceeding 90,000 deaths from its outbreak and Argentina surpassing a toll of 30,000. → https://is.gd/KGSXIK11:33
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): United Airlines to begin trial of free passenger Covid tests on London flights → https://is.gd/hBT8cV12:19
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +9386 cases (now 145044), +12 deaths (now 2179) since 4 hours ago12:21
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): Moderna says it's preparing global launch of Covid vaccine as it takes in $1.1 billion in deposits → https://is.gd/EKgPzR12:28
BrainstormNew from ProPublica: West Virginians Were Promised an Economic Revival. It Hasn’t Happened Yet.: by Ken Ward Jr. ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re published. This article is co-published with Mountain State Spotlight , a new nonprofit newsroom covering [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/FTdp6z13:13
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: All residents of Slovakia will be tested for COVID-19 this weekend. Keep your fingers crossed for us (85 votes) | https://dennikn.sk/2108914/minuta-po-minute-plosne-testovanie-podrobnosti/ | https://redd.it/jk7ibo13:31
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: COVID stress syndrome: 5 ways the pandemic is affecting mental health: In addition to its staggering impact on physical well-being and mortality, COVID-19 is also taking an unprecedented toll on our mental health. Numerous recent studies have shown global increases in the prevalence and severity of depression and anxiety as [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zH1fyT13:31
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: France braces for month-long lockdown as virus deaths mount → https://is.gd/fIyOKl13:50
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: How the immune system deals with the gut's plethora of microbes: The gut is an unusually noisy place, where hundreds of species of bacteria live alongside whatever microbes happen to have hitched a ride in on your lunch. Scientists have long suspected that the gut's immune system, in the face of so many stimuli, takes an [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/qYTMHR14:09
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Coronavirus task force officials reportedly offended at White House claim Covid-19 has ended (10100 votes) | https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/coronavirus-pandemic-task-force-officials-white-house-b1404940.html | https://redd.it/jjzyi314:25
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Covid-19: A status check of the 10 worst-hit countries → https://is.gd/k0ebRZ14:28
ap4lmtre3If every single person wore a n95 mask, then the virus would not be able to travel and infect new people right. Hwr, the wld or countries don't have n95 masks. Right? 14:28
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Testing sewage can provide an early warning of COVID-19 outbreaks: study: Earlier this year, a team of Yale researchers showed that the concentration of COVID-19 RNA in sewage mirrors the spread of the disease through a population. In a new study, they find that testing sewage can serve as an early indicator of an outbreak [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/v8s8hH14:37
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +7113 cases (now 330255), +25 deaths (now 7258) since 8 hours ago14:37
TimvdeThey're gone, but as I understand it, you need to replace N95 masks after X hours of use (just like other masks), so that would become really expensive really fast, and I expect the supply chain not to be able to follow the demand14:44
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Post - October 29 | Questions, images, videos, comments, unconfirmed reports, theories, suggestions → https://is.gd/L8Ptsi14:55
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): Merck CEO says Covid vaccine won't be a 'silver bullet,' predicts mask use for the 'foreseeable future' → https://is.gd/ib0Tm415:04
BrainstormUpdates for US: +1429 cases (now 9.1 million), +20 deaths (now 233157) since 7 hours ago — Switzerland: +21 deaths (now 2200) since 2 hours ago15:07
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: The best graphical explanation of aerosol transmission I’ve seen (81 votes) | https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html | https://redd.it/jk94k415:09
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): U.S. coronavirus infections unlikely to peak until after Thanksgiving, Dr. Scott Gottlieb says → https://is.gd/KgvVpS15:14
BrainstormUpdates for US: +2405 cases (now 9.1 million), +15 deaths (now 233172) since 22 minutes ago15:22
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Research offers new way to forecast COVID-19 cases, study impact of public health measures: A statistical estimation technique developed by a University of Notre Dame researcher offers public health officials a new way to build short-term forecasts of coronavirus diagnoses and deaths. It also provides additional insight into [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/VQkP8k15:23
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Identifying early symptoms of Alzheimer's disease: When a 60-year-old tells her nurse she's been forgetting things—a dinner night with friends, a neighbor's name, or to call for a grandchild's birthday, for instance—the nurse may respond several different ways: The nurse might show concern and order follow-up tests, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/5MAV3l15:32
BrainstormUpdates for US: +80 cases (now 9.1 million) since 18 minutes ago15:37
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: A new coronavirus variant is seen spreading across Europe, research says: A new variant of the coronavirus, identified as 20A.EU1 by researchers from Switzerland and Spain, was first observed in Spain in June. → https://is.gd/fwqj3915:59
BrainstormUpdates for US: +6965 cases (now 9.1 million), +126 deaths (now 233298) since 37 minutes ago16:07
metreo.cases canada16:13
Brainstormmetreo: In Canada, there have been 226583 confirmed cases (0.6% of the population) and 10052 deaths (4.4% of cases) as of 9 hours ago. 9.8 million tests were performed (2.3% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 5.0% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data.16:13
metreo.cases france16:13
Brainstormmetreo: In France, there have been 1.2 million confirmed cases (1.9% of the population) and 35785 deaths (2.9% of cases) as of 9 hours ago. 15.3 million tests were performed (8.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data.16:13
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Two million lost health coverage, thousands died prematurely in Trump's first 3 years: A new analysis of federal surveys on health insurance coverage concludes that the number of uninsured Americans increased by about 2.3 million between 2016 and 2019. The analysis by researchers at Harvard Medical School and the City [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/9frveZ16:17
metreo.help16:21
Brainstormmetreo: Hi, I am LjL's bot! Say %modules or %commands to me in private to see my features. 16:21
metreo.commands16:21
Brainstormmetreo, all exposed commands: act, anagrams, ask, bible, book, bug, commands, count, dick, echo, evaluate, geo, grammar, greet, help, language_code, language_identify, languages, last, link_get, link_put, lojban, modules, more, morphology, onelook, phonology_change, ping, pronunciation, search, seen, spell, spell2, stock, subscribe [... want %more?] (try %help <command>, or %modules for a directory)16:21
metreo.search antibodies16:21
Brainstormmetreo, 0 hits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody (Antibody)16:21
metreo.search antibody16:21
Brainstormmetreo, 0 hits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody (Antibody)16:21
metreo.commands16:21
Brainstormmetreo, all exposed commands: act, anagrams, ask, bible, book, bug, commands, count, dick, echo, evaluate, geo, grammar, greet, help, language_code, language_identify, languages, last, link_get, link_put, lojban, modules, more, morphology, onelook, phonology_change, ping, pronunciation, search, seen, spell, spell2, stock, subscribe [... want %more?] (try %help <command>, or %modules for a directory)16:21
metreo.more16:21
Brainstormmetreo, [...] tell, title, translate, wikipedia, wiktionary, wtf → https://paste.ee/p/qwkou16:21
BrainstormUpdates for US: +852 cases (now 9.1 million), +1 deaths (now 233299) since 18 minutes ago16:22
metreo.search immunity16:23
Brainstormmetreo, 225200000.0 hits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunity_(medical) (Immunity (medical) - Wikipedia) — https://www.cell.com/immunity/home (Cell Press: Immunity) — https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/immunity (Immunity | Journal | ScienceDirect.com by Elsevier) [... want %more?]16:23
metreo.more16:23
Brainstormmetreo, [...] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immunity (Immunity | Definition of Immunity by Merriam-Webster) — https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/immunity-types.htm (Types of Immunity to a Disease | Vaccines and Immunizations ...) — https://www.dictionary.com/browse/immunity (Immunity | Definition of Immunity at Dictionary.com) [...] → https://paste.ee/p/yAWBv16:23
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Does coronavirus spread more easily in cold temperatures? Here's what we know: Why is the reported number of COVID-19 cases rising across Europe now? Many countries ended their full lockdowns at the start of the summer, but it wasn't until the autumn that most places began to see a significant increase in the spread of the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/eE5orW16:27
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: 'Difficult winter': Europe divided on lockdowns; cases soar: Chancellor Angela Merkel told Germans to expect a "difficult winter" as the country's daily reported coronavirus cases hit a new high Thursday, while residents in France prepared for life under a new month-long lockdown and experts urged Spain to more aggressively [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/gUCPHf16:45
BrainstormNew from WebMD: The Pandemic Diet: How to Lose the ‘Quarantine 15’: Another survey, done in August by RunRepeat, found that 41% of the 10,000+ respondents in the U.S. had gained more than 5 pounds since quarantine began -- and those are people visiting a website devoted to running. → https://is.gd/570Ydi16:54
BrainstormUpdates for US: +3253 cases (now 9.1 million), +41 deaths (now 233340) since 48 minutes ago — Canada: +717 cases (now 227550), +15 deaths (now 10067) since 10 hours ago17:08
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +26829 cases (now 616595), +217 deaths (now 38122) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +21516 cases (now 965340), +243 deaths (now 45955) since 10 hours ago17:23
BrainstormUpdates for US: +6014 cases (now 9.1 million), +65 deaths (now 233405) since 49 minutes ago — Arizona, US: +1315 cases (now 242480), +13 deaths (now 5918) since a day ago17:53
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: It's been 7 months since Fauci's 'grim' estimate of 200,000 Americans dead from COVID-19 in 2020 - and the year isn't over yet (10544 votes) | https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/29/fauci-coronavirus-could-hit-millions-trump-considers-guidelines/2935804001/ | https://redd.it/jk99c917:57
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Celebrity vetting and ‘helping the President’ to defeat coronavirus despair → https://is.gd/4swy0Q18:08
BrainstormUpdates for US: +2867 cases (now 9.1 million), +32 deaths (now 233437) since 23 minutes ago18:08
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Spanish Parliament Approves Extension Of Nationwide High Alert Over COVID-19 Until May | 29OCT20 → https://is.gd/3ReXBf18:17
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Do it for Yourself and Your Friends | 28OCT20 → https://is.gd/YWlvbl18:26
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Putin says no plans for new lockdown despite record virus surge: President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday there were no plans for a new lockdown in Russia even as officials registered a record surge in coronavirus infections and several regions were suffering "critical" outbreaks. → https://is.gd/2Dy5rY18:35
BrainstormNew from In The Pipeline: The Latest Antibody Data From Lilly and From Regeneron: We have a new paper in the NEJM from the Eli Lilly effort on monoclonal antibodies against the coronavirus. And there’s no reason not to be up front about it: it’s disappointing. This is the BLAZE-1 trial (mentioned in this recent post), which is studying [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/XqjI8D18:45
TimvdeLjL: the government is discussing to also close non-essential stores and forbid all non-essential movements18:48
tinwhiskersBummer about the monoclonal result linked above, but that doesn't role out monoclonals per se, just this particular one.18:49
tinwhiskers*rule out18:49
BrainstormUpdates for US: +3191 cases (now 9.1 million), +49 deaths (now 233486) since 51 minutes ago18:53
de-factothats weird, i would have expected monoclonal antibodies to be more effective, could it be that they are not correctly targeted to the epitopes of that strain of SARS-CoV-2 anymore?19:02
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting dengue virus case numbers?: The ongoing COVID-19 pandemic has resulted in dramatic changes to human mobility, which has the potential to change the transmission dynamics of other infectious diseases. Now, researchers reporting in PLOS Neglected Tropical Diseases have found that social [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/g8tqoF19:03
tinwhiskersYeah19:03
tinwhiskersNot correctly targeted initially I would say.19:05
tinwhiskersi.e. the selection method failed to select a good antibody and it's not until it reaches the trial phase that you get to find out for sure.19:06
de-factoi am no expert but i though that their effectiveness potentially should in the rage of immunity by antibodies produced from B-cells, although such a natural immune response would produce a whole spectrum of antibodies, some would fit very well, others not so much, yet having all of them present would catch escape mutations, theats why they use "cocktails" of monoclonal antibodies to mimic that19:06
tinwhiskersRight. Maybe the cocktails are the way to go.19:07
de-factoso i guess targeting multiple epitopes and constantly renewing components of a cocktail of a big variety of monoclonal antibodies could increase their effectiveness19:07
tinwhiskersYes but there may also be subtle interplay between the mechanisms of some antibodies that don't occur in isolation to a single antibody.19:08
de-factowhat do you mean by that?19:10
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Germany could be one of the first Western countries to start immunizing people against Covid-19 under a plan being rolled out by the government and a German company that is testing a vaccine → https://is.gd/bKPWBo19:12
tinwhiskersInteractions may exist between antibodies that give them their full effectiveness as a cocktail but not as a monoclonal.19:12
de-factopossibly yeah like antibody A only is effective in the presence of antibody B, but do they interact directly with each others or is it more like a cell mediated interaction (e.g. by their non-sticky end acting as marker for someting?)19:15
de-factodo those monoclonal antibodies also mark a virion for removal from the body by sticking to it (with their other end flagging it to some cells to "put it in the garbage bin") or would such an inactivated virion just float around without being removed like it normally would when the antibody was produced by the carriers immune system?19:15
tinwhiskersYeah, maybe something like that19:16
de-factoif it would just stay the concentration would increase, if it also would be marked for removal it should decline19:16
de-factoand PCR test would not distinguish between inactivated and infectious functional virions19:16
tinwhiskersHmmm19:17
de-factostill virion production should go down when they are non-functional19:18
de-factoso maybe they should look at the time derivative of virion concentration rather than accumulated totals19:19
de-factoanyhow thats all speculation, i dont have a clue19:19
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): Covid2019: LATEST: Liege, Belgium—where there's a roughly 41% infection rate and the local hospital is at full capacity—is emerging as an epicenter of Europe's worsening coronavirus crisis. → https://is.gd/cavSn219:21
BrainstormUpdates for US: +7438 cases (now 9.2 million), +59 deaths (now 233545) since 38 minutes ago19:23
generawell the virion contains tasty amina acid. i would guess the cell gets them.19:26
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): Trump administration vetted political views of 274 celebrities for botched $265 million Covid ad campaign, House panel says → https://is.gd/6c4V4d19:30
de-factoi mean if the SARS-CoV-2 epitopes are somewhat of a moving target (evading even if monoclonal antibodies are used on large scale) their production probably needs some kind of feedback loop to update them to specifically target the latest development in virion evolution19:44
tinwhiskersyes, that seems like the main reason19:45
de-factowould each single version of such a monoclonal antibody have to go through full clinical trials or could there be sane shortcuts to get it on fast track into large scale treatment?19:45
tinwhiskersclearly they can do trials on cocktails as a whole19:46
tinwhiskerswith the annual flu vaccines I don't think there is much of a trial19:46
de-factoyes but what if they constantly need to "patch" the ingredients of the cocktail to update to latest epitopes emerging?19:47
tinwhiskerslike the flu vaccines I expect antibody therapies will reduce the amount of testing required after confidence is built, a other than small pilot groups will probably just closely monitor new variants for problems.19:48
de-factoyes they probably need to gain more experience with them on large scale to pinpoint possible problems more specifically19:49
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: WHO: Europe now has more than 10 million COVID-19 cases: The World Health Organization's Europe director said Thursday that the 54-country region has again reached a new weekly record for confirmed cases, with more than 1.5 million confirmed last week and more than 10 million since the start of the pandemic. → https://is.gd/nermFn19:58
BrainstormUpdates for Spain: +44241 cases (now 1.2 million), +173 deaths (now 35639) since a day ago — France: +25303 cases (now 1.3 million), +235 deaths (now 36020) since 13 hours ago — US: +11489 cases (now 9.2 million), +140 deaths (now 233685) since 50 minutes ago20:09
LjLwow, spain20:10
LjLit isn't even monday20:11
LjLthat spain number must be wrong... it would be a gigantic leap compared to previous days...20:14
LjLbut spain and france really suck with their data :\20:14
BrainstormUpdates for US: +7760 cases (now 9.2 million), +60 deaths (now 233745) since 20 minutes ago — Canada: +197 cases (now 227747), +1 deaths (now 10068) since 3 hours ago20:24
de-factoSpain should have daily 16k on average and daily peaks around 20k or such20:24
LjLde-facto, yeah, i thought so too, and covidly graphs seem to confirm it, so i'm honestly not sure what the bot is doing. it's possible it's jumped from one source to another (due to the fact that both offloop sources have their own flaws, the bot always picks the one that has a higher number)20:27
de-factowould make sense, i also suspect some artifact20:28
de-factoalthough the normal data on offloop for Spain got HUGE periodic spikes20:29
de-factolike 52k on 26th Oct20:30
de-factosmoothing to ~20k20:30
de-factoyeah Spains reporting always is a bit strange20:31
de-factoDamn Incidence in EU is DOUBLE that of US per citizen20:34
de-factoand still on exponential raise20:34
BrainstormNew from Virology.ws: TWiV 676: Tragic gene flow from Neanderthals: In this episode we explain how regions of the human genome associated with severe COVID-19 are identified, the finding that one of these regions was inherited from Neanderthals, and prolonged SARS-CoV-2 reproduction in an immunocompromised patient. → https://is.gd/Kq0eNm20:49
dtrumSpain, since July the data is updated all three days. See a part of my Database at https://pastebin.com/B7Ji4aR320:56
dtrumThe graph is nearly useless, i only use a 7 days glide.20:57
dtrumAlso since July a recovery rate is not published.20:58
dtrumThe plot looks like this: https://svgur.com/s/R3R21:05
tinwhiskersnice plot. what does the width of the bars signify?21:06
BrainstormNew from PLOS ONE: A discrete-time-evolution model to forecast progress of Covid-19 outbreak: by Evaldo M. F. Curado, Marco R. Curado Here we present a discrete-time-evolution model with one day interval to forecast the propagation of Covid-19. The proposed model can be easily implemented with daily updated data sets of the pandemic publicly available [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xvkg5w21:07
dtrumYes, normally one per day, so if three the same value is published, the bars looking wider. Normally it should look like before July.21:10
tinwhiskersah21:10
ryoumait is? i thoguht it was like half us as of last night.  and 1/4 of red states --- 12:34 <de-facto> Damn Incidence in EU is DOUBLE that of US per citizen21:13
dtrumData is from https://github.com/ulklc/covid19-timeseries/raw/master/countryReport/raw/rawReport.csv21:13
ryoumaacc offloop'21:13
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: The Latest Antibody Data From Lilly and From Regeneron (84 votes) | https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/10/29/the-latest-antibody-data-from-lilly-and-from-regeneron | https://redd.it/jkezdo21:16
DocScrutinizer05I don't trust in US numbers. You know >>less testing, less problem.<< The trump solution21:16
tinwhiskersDocScrutinizer05: yeah, yet the conspiracy people say that's somehow just evidence that trump knows the numbers are being exaggerated and that's why he says the problem is not as bad as it is... or something like that. 21:38
tinwhiskers*not as bad as the numbers indicate21:38
tinwhiskersOf course excess deaths show the problem is actually worse than what the numbers show. In that regard the US isn't really much different to other places so Trump's wish to do less testing may not actually be being followed.21:40
tinwhiskersor, put another way, you can probably trust that the US numbers are about as accurate as other places despite the rhetoric.21:41
ryoumameaning http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=EU;US-Democratic;US-Republican;US%20swing%20states;US%20non-swing%20states&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&miscType=Rate21:45
BrainstormUpdates for US: +14353 cases (now 9.2 million), +147 deaths (now 233892) since an hour ago — Canada: +82 cases (now 227829) since an hour ago22:09
BrainstormUpdates for US: +2415 cases (now 9.2 million), +107 deaths (now 233999) since 27 minutes ago22:24
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Listen: Pfizer’s Covid-19 mystery, Ashish Jha on pandemic response, & STAT turns 5: When are we getting Covid-19 vaccine data? Will concerts ever be safe again? And what's a "Bionomy"? Find out on the latest episode of "The Readout LOUD." Listen now: #TheReadoutLOUD → https://is.gd/DaME1K22:30
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): Trump administration vetted political views of 274 celebrities for botched $265 million Covid ad campaign, House lawmakers say → https://is.gd/6c4V4d23:06
BrainstormUpdates for US: +4760 cases (now 9.2 million), +17 deaths (now 234016) since 53 minutes ago — Canada: +477 cases (now 228306), +5 deaths (now 10073) since an hour ago23:09
Arsaneritis there a good source for time series per country on positive test rates?23:10
tinwhiskersArsanerit: you can get positive test rates on offloop: http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US&testsRate=yes&miscType=Rate&leftTrim=150&legacy=no but I see now the leftTrim setting isn't working from the link so you might need to set that to get a decent looking graph. It's pretty rudimentary and can go a bit crazy at times. You can export the data using the csv link at the top-right of the graph.23:24
tinwhiskersso, "good", I'm not so sure about :-/23:24
BrainstormUpdates for US: +4547 cases (now 9.2 million), +56 deaths (now 234072) since 21 minutes ago23:25
de-factoArsanerit, yes i think this is a pretty neat summery for each country worldwide in regards to testing https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing23:28
de-factohttps://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tests-per-confirmed-case-daily-smoothed?time=latest23:28
ArsaneritOh, I didn't know offloop had test rates23:29
de-factohttps://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tests-per-confirmed-case-daily-smoothed?tab=chart&time=earliest..latest&country=~DEU23:30
Arsanerit"confirmed cases per test: 6"  how does that work?23:30
Arsaneritde-facto: thanks23:30
de-factoso for example if they conduct 30 tests for each confirmed case it means that one in 30 tests shows a positive result i thnk23:31
de-factohence the positive rate would be 1/30 = 3.3%23:32
tinwhiskersArsanerit: yeah, maybe something to do with timing of reporting.  Not sure. There's times when there were more positive results reported than tests reported.23:32
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: High rate of symptomless COVID-19 infection among grocery store workers: study: Grocery store employees are likely to be at heightened risk of COVID-19 infection, with those in customer-facing roles 5 times as likely to test positive as their colleagues in other positions, suggests the first study of its kind, published in the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NjwqZj23:33
Arsaneritde-facto: yes but 6 confirmed cases per test means a positive test rate of 600%23:34
tinwhiskersright23:34
de-factooh nice tinwhiskers is the positive test rate on offloop new?23:34
de-factoArsanerit, you cant congirm 6 cases with one test, that does not make sense to me23:35
tinwhiskersno, it's been there for a while. It's only on the covidly dataset, which is no longer the default because it's a bit whacky.23:35
Arsaneritde-facto: must be bad data then23:35
de-factoah i see, thats why i have not seen it on default settings23:35
Arsaneritourworldindata is good (doesn't work in pale moon though)23:35
de-factowhich country are you looking at?23:36
de-facto6 tests and one of them positive would make sense though like 1/6 = 16.6% positive rate23:38
Arsanerithttp://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US&testsRate=yes&miscType=Rate&legacy=no   <--- US has some values above 1 before April 823:38
ArsaneritI'm looking at https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing#the-positive-rate-a-crucial-metric-for-understanding-the-pandemic now23:39
de-factoyeah early points in the US dataset may be bogus for some reason, sometimes one datasource it better, other times another23:42
de-factobut i would assume the more recent points are more accurate as in they would debug their reporting pipelines for the upstream datasets23:43
Arsanerithmm, no "positive testing rate" data for The Netherlands since 27 September in ourworldindata23:48
de-factoyeah but before23:51
de-factoweird though, maybe it will be added later due to some change?23:51
ryoumachild long covid https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/10/26/long-o26.html23:57

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!