| de-facto | if its certified by the official institutes and i have read the studies and are lucky enough to get such a vaccine offered, the answer is: yes. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | de-facto, yeah of course it would be interesting, that's why they all carefully hide it :P | 00:02 |
| LjL | same as de-facto. but "as soon as it comes out" is going to be for healthcare workers only, so i won't be able to get it for a while i think | 00:03 |
| LjL | by the time i *can* get it, there will probably be more clarity on the statistics | 00:03 |
| de-facto | i am patient waiting for them to do their studies properly hence of course i am curious to see the data, but i can wait until they finished their analysis and release it | 00:05 |
| de-facto | i am pretty sure that before that i wont be able to get a vaccine anyhow | 00:05 |
| LjL | "Another wrinkle is that the dosing error occurred early in the trial when researchers were only recruiting people between the ages of 18 and 55—excluding older people more vulnerable to disease. The analysis with the two-full doses, on the other hand, did include older age groups." | 00:06 |
| LjL | this sounds dodgier and dodgier | 00:06 |
| genera | lets call it tripple-blind | 00:10 |
| d4rkp1r4t3 | at least its only 1 of the 3 vaccines which are getting speculation. unfortunatley its the one that touted infection prevention | 00:11 |
| LjL | touted infection prevention? isn't that the point of a vaccine | 00:12 |
| LjL | if you mean infectiveness prevention, Moderna appears to be promising about that | 00:12 |
| LjL | infectiousness, also | 00:12 |
| LjL | but, to be fair, the other two vaccines are also getting speculation, just not as wild as AZ | 00:13 |
| LjL | i mean they all have about 100 people infected | 00:13 |
| LjL | and we don't know in which arms, so we don't really know the statistical significance of the %'s they give | 00:13 |
| de-facto | well luckily they had that half-dose group, how else would they know that it is more effective that way? i am sure they are investigating this further and maybe ask questions they would not have asked without that result, so i see that as positive overall | 00:13 |
| d4rkp1r4t3 | pfizer and moderna dont prevent infection, they prevent them from becomming severe cases | 00:13 |
| d4rkp1r4t3 | so LjL no, they do not prevent infection | 00:14 |
| LjL | de-facto, sure, if we are ruling out massaging data and results out of malice... | 00:14 |
| LjL | because the other option here is that data are being manipulated to try to come up with something closer to 90% than 62% | 00:14 |
| LjL | d4rkp1r4t3, i'm pretty sure we don't *know* that | 00:14 |
| LjL | during the trial people weren't even PCR tested | 00:14 |
| LjL | so how would they know | 00:15 |
| d4rkp1r4t3 | well of course we dont | 00:15 |
| LjL | well you just said "no, they do not prevent infection" | 00:15 |
| LjL | that is incompatible with "we don't know" | 00:15 |
| d4rkp1r4t3 | no I said that 1/3 of the vaccines aren't receiving speculation | 00:15 |
| LjL | they are vaccines, there is no particular reason why AZ would prevent infection while those wouldn't | 00:15 |
| LjL | you said that thing, and also the other thing | 00:16 |
| d4rkp1r4t3 | just like we don't *know* reality exists. i would hardly say the other statement really applies | 00:16 |
| adidas | is it sus that the two American vacs arnt under speculation or do we trust our pharma companys now? | 00:18 |
| de-facto | we only have press releases so far (about all those vaccines in phase III trials), so everything is speculation until full disclosure of the data in their final study report, hence we need to wait for that with conclusions | 00:20 |
| metreo1 | are these still small sample sizes? | 00:21 |
| d4rkp1r4t3 | at least dow hit 30k | 00:21 |
| LjL | around 100 positives, metreo1 | 00:21 |
| metreo1 | yeah the markets are doing great | 00:22 |
| adidas | there are better percents in small groups its in there best interests | 00:22 |
| metreo1 | I just wonder about pregnant women, etc | 00:22 |
| LjL | metreo1, oh the sample sizes of people receiving the vaccines are in the tens of thousands | 00:22 |
| LjL | 100 is the size of the pool of people who actually got infected | 00:23 |
| metreo1 | Ahh that makes more sense | 00:23 |
| metreo1 | I won't be first in line to take it but I have reasonably low risk | 00:24 |
| metreo1 | I imagine they are going to have to force it into people in the US | 00:25 |
| LjL | not just in the US, i suspect | 00:25 |
| metreo1 | true true | 00:25 |
| de-facto | %title https://covidvax.org/ <-- see their lists about trial numbers, also click on them to get further details | 00:25 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From covidvax.org: COVID-19 Vaccines: The updated list | 00:25 |
| LjL | there were polls in the UK too (perhaps other countries, but i remember something about the UK) which showed less than the minimum required 60%ish of people said they would "definitely" take it | 00:25 |
| LjL | and 60% is a really conservative estimate for herd immunity | 00:26 |
| metreo1 | this one was cancelled ages ago: https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/CanSino-NRVV/Viral-Vector-Adenovirus-Type-5-Vector-CanSino-Biologics-Beijing-Institute-of-BioTech-Canadian-Center | 00:26 |
| metreo1 | it was controversial | 00:28 |
| metreo1 | China was blocking necessary vaccine shipments | 00:28 |
| de-facto | btw that "herd immunity" is the estimated *endemic* point of R0 = 1, hence no decline or increase of incidence: R0 ( 1 - v e ) = 1 hence for a vaccine with efficiency to prevent transmission of e < 1 a part v = (R0 - 1) / (e R0) of a fully susceptible and naive population would have to be vaccinated | 00:28 |
| metreo1 | https://globalnews.ca/news/7302194/canada-coronavirus-vaccine-deal-china/ .title | 00:28 |
| metreo1 | .title https://globalnews.ca/news/7302194/canada-coronavirus-vaccine-deal-china/ | 00:29 |
| Brainstorm | metreo1: From globalnews.ca: China blamed for Canada’s multimillion-dollar coronavirus vaccine deal collapse | Globalnews.ca | 00:29 |
| metreo1 | hmmm | 00:29 |
| metreo1 | it was our only effort, we have no production here now, will be importing everything from USA and Germany apparently | 00:30 |
| de-facto | note that Ad5 viral vector may be problematic due to estimated seroprevalence against Adenovirus 5 in the population (afaik its some of the common cold viruses or such, hence people may have antibodies against that particular one) | 00:30 |
| de-facto | that would mean that vaccines using that vector may be less effective because the immune system directly would kill the vaccine to some degree before it even could be effective | 00:31 |
| adidas | dannnggg | 00:31 |
| scode[m] | Did anyone get a sense of what happened with the google/apple etc contract tracing efforts? I know they have sites up (https://www.google.com/covid19/exposurenotifications/ and https://covid19.apple.com/contacttracing) but I feel like I see zero coverage in news media, and I have no idea what happened with the planned collaborations with at least some states in the US etc. | 00:32 |
| de-facto | it only affects those using Ad5 vectors though, Ad26 for example is much less common, hence probably does not have that probability of antibodies already present in people against it | 00:32 |
| metreo1 | scode, those technologies have been deployed | 00:32 |
| adidas | suree did | 00:33 |
| de-facto | its what all those contact tracing apps are based upon | 00:33 |
| scode[m] | So if I get covid, they will be able to contract trace me even though I have no recollection of enabling anything on my end? | 00:33 |
| de-facto | no | 00:34 |
| metreo1 | no | 00:34 |
| scode[m] | Ok. That's why I thought news coverage was relevant. The adoption rate has to be really low then. | 00:34 |
| adidas | if you look up the symptoms you will receive a flag | 00:34 |
| adidas | its for monitering locations with a high concintration | 00:35 |
| adidas | aka like the patriot act | 00:36 |
| adidas | we have your best interests in mind.... | 00:36 |
| genera | Was kann die app? nun ja sie kann blinken und piepsen wenn ihr eine andere app begegnet. Ist halt eine deutsche Entwicklung. | 00:36 |
| de-facto | those are deactivated on default, if you install a contact tracing app you can optionally enable those functionalities and "listen" for BLE beacons in proximity from other people using that app. Now if one of them gets a positive test result they can optionally publish that on a server list and your app downloads that list: now if one of the beacons that have been found in your proximity are on such lists the app warns you that you might | 00:37 |
| de-facto | have had contact to an infectious carrier | 00:37 |
| de-facto | scode[m], ^^ | 00:37 |
| genera | (zitat ARD heute show) | 00:37 |
| adidas | to keep you "safe" | 00:37 |
| scode[m] | "On Android, you can find the app for your area, if available, on Google Play. Android users will also receive a notification from the Play Store, if their state has made Exposure Notifications available." | 00:38 |
| scode[m] | What a mess. (From google's site). | 00:38 |
| scode[m] | Well that's it then, adoption rate will remain tiny and it won't end up being very useful. Like, as a user I have to go actively research which app to use, in addition to making the conscious decision to opt in. | 00:38 |
| scode[m] | Not to mention that coverage seems sparse (for unclear reasons you're supposed to use an app that is for a particular region). | 00:38 |
| genera | the government did put up billboards advertizing the app | 00:39 |
| genera | so its not that difficult to find out whic app is the right | 00:39 |
| genera | its the same app for both google android and apple iphone | 00:39 |
| scode[m] | I can't find it. | 00:40 |
| scode[m] | First off, https://covid19.ca.gov/contact-tracing/ leads me to believe it's not a thing for california | 00:40 |
| scode[m] | The google site links to https://play.google.com/store/search?q=exposure%20notification&c=apps&utm_source=global_OO&utm_medium=oth&utm_content=Jun2520&utm_campaign=ens&pcampaignid=MKT-PR-global-none-0000000-OO-oth-ap-ens-Jun2520-Other-web_rdr | 00:40 |
| scode[m] | Which has regionalized apps for a few US states. | 00:40 |
| scode[m] | There is no clear one app from what I can tell? | 00:40 |
| genera | and if i go to the supermarket and back, i have a few hundred beacons in the display | 00:40 |
| de-facto | RKI Germany: 22.8M downloads (12.4M Google + 10.4M Apple), 453024 calls to hotlines (2.8k daily), 3.9M test results reported to app users, 74552 optionally shared positive results (56% of possible shares of positive results that would have been 127190) | 00:41 |
| d4rkp1r4t3 | just tried to enable it and its not available in my region | 00:41 |
| de-facto | source: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/WarnApp/Archiv_Kennzahlen/Kennzahlen_20112020.pdf?__blob=publicationFile | 00:41 |
| scode[m] | genera: which app are you using? | 00:41 |
| d4rkp1r4t3 | my iphone | 00:41 |
| d4rkp1r4t3 | its built into the OS | 00:41 |
| genera | i am talking about the RKI Corona Warn App | 00:41 |
| de-facto | this is the one for Germany https://www.coronawarn.app/en/ | 00:42 |
| genera | and for the display, see fdroid UUID scanner | 00:42 |
| de-facto | its open source and published on GitHub.com | 00:42 |
| LjL | scode[m], i got an article yesterday about the Italian app, which says that downloads have basically stalled shortly before reaching 10 million, and that indeed media are barely covering it anymore. if Google/Apple realized that it isn't really being a success in the countries where there's a dedicated app, maybe they're silently dropping plans for the "Express" version that would have been used in parts of the US... | 00:44 |
| genera | its funny. it was built by Google in silicon valley, but adopted mostly in germany | 00:44 |
| LjL | but as you quote, even the Express version basically just means that Google gives countries/state a thing to build an app in an "express" way. from the user's point of view, you're still installing an app | 00:44 |
| scode[m] | Yeah https://support.google.com/android/answer/9888358?hl=en also confirms that you are supposed to pick a regional app (and i still don't see one for california as an example). | 00:44 |
| LjL | (i think it's different with Apple but i'm not an Apple user so i haven't really followed that) | 00:44 |
| scode[m] | Yeah. | 00:44 |
| scode[m] | Like it needs to be either on-by-default, or at least have a single trivial opt-in step that can be advertisd. | 00:45 |
| scode[m] | That is the same for everyone everywhere. | 00:45 |
| scode[m] | And not like "pick among 50 apps if you're lucky enough to be in a region which even has one". | 00:45 |
| LjL | i don't think there are multiple apps anywhere | 00:45 |
| genera | it still needs the support of some local government. otherwise too many trolls would just mark themself as infected | 00:45 |
| scode[m] | Yes there is, such as those linked from https://support.google.com/android/answer/9888358?hl=en | 00:45 |
| LjL | Google is quite aggressively shutting down any apps that even go so far as *mention* COVID-19 on the Play Store, if they aren't government-approved | 00:45 |
| scode[m] | That's Google' official messaging, and it takes you to https://www.google.com/covid19/exposurenotifications/select/ | 00:46 |
| scode[m] | Which then takes you to https://play.google.com/store/search?q=exposure%20notification&c=apps&utm_source=global_OO&utm_medium=oth&utm_content=Jun2520&utm_campaign=ens&pcampaignid=MKT-PR-global-none-0000000-OO-oth-ap-ens-Jun2520-Other-web_rdr | 00:46 |
| scode[m] | So it's "pick an app among these", and there are a few states available. | 00:46 |
| LjL | scode[m], maybe in the US... when i click on that Play Store link, i am only shown the Italian app, everything else is hidden | 00:46 |
| LjL | so it may be an issue in the US because the geolocation is at the "you're in the US" level instead of state-wise | 00:47 |
| scode[m] | Okay. So maybe it's filtered by country but not by US state, hence seeing multiple. | 00:47 |
| scode[m] | Interesting. | 00:47 |
| scode[m] | Yeah. | 00:47 |
| LjL | the Italian app has two stars and a half, for the record :P | 00:47 |
| scode[m] | :D | 00:47 |
| LjL | first reviews in English i see: | 00:48 |
| LjL | "The app is completely useless. To make it work, the infected person needs to be contacted by the healthcare provider, which never happens or if it does, it occurs many days or even weeks after the positive result is received." | 00:48 |
| LjL | "It will never work unless test results are fetched directly from government sources. Relying on the public to supply positivity info is to not understand why the virus is so widespread in the first place: personal irresponsibility. I know that there would be privacy issues if the government could associate ones phone with a test result. So this leaves the basic premise of immuni infeasible. I wish it were otherwise." | 00:48 |
| scode[m] | Maybe this will get more attention when (hoping it's not an if) we get the rates down a lot with vaccines and effective tracing will become more critical to rooting it out completely | 00:49 |
| scode[m] | (If there's even a chance of that anymore. Just hoping.) | 00:49 |
| LjL | scode[m], maybe, although i don't count on it... i mean, people may be irresponsible, but so is the government. ours, anyway. what that first review says is true: there was a scandal when media realized that the region of Veneto wasn't providing people who tested positive with the needed codes to upload it to the app. and then they realized that almost *every* region wasn't doing that. so i'm not surprised that downloads have stagnated after people learned | 00:51 |
| LjL | it was a joke... | 00:51 |
| LjL | granted, even before then, downloads weren't skyrocketing | 00:51 |
| LjL | but they were heading towards 10 million, and maybe they would have picked up pace as we were getting more cases | 00:51 |
| LjL | instead, they lost pace | 00:51 |
| scode[m] | It seems like a classic failure to solve the actual end-to-end problem, and so it fizzles out. | 00:52 |
| scode[m] | Since each component of the problem alone is useless. | 00:52 |
| LjL | and it's a shame because here at least, i was seeing a lot of people broadcasting app beacons | 00:53 |
| LjL | i don't know a percentage of course, but it was like between 10 and 30 when i'd pass next to somewhere people were eating | 00:53 |
| LjL | (10 and 30 devices, not 10-30%) | 00:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: Pentagon sees uptick in coronavirus cases in military as major holidays approach: The Pentagon also recorded more than 1,300 new confirmed cases of Covid-19 among the sister service branches, a new record for the military in a 24-hour period. → https://is.gd/pHXImh | 00:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Massachusetts, US: +3395 cases (now 214594), +53 deaths (now 10604) since a day ago | 01:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Note that AstraZeneca two-arm division was accidental, linking ArsTec… → https://is.gd/PQ2PRz | 01:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +12947 cases (now 2.2 million) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +4445 cases (now 500085), +75 deaths (now 9110) since 23 hours ago | 01:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Curacao: +102 cases (now 1929) since a day ago | 01:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Festive Cheer Thread → https://is.gd/KBD7SV | 01:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Panama: +1602 cases (now 158532), +16 deaths (now 3002) since a day ago | 02:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for New Zealand: +1 cases (now 2040) since a day ago | 02:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: What we can learn from contact tracing an entire province → https://is.gd/KoxsxS | 03:00 |
| Pigasus | https://mobile.twitter.com/Cleavon_MD | 03:01 |
| Pigasus | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/health/doctors-nurses-covid-stress.html | 03:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Sudan’s former PM Sadiq al-Mahdi dies from coronavirus in UAE → https://is.gd/sJTTDp | 03:12 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: After warnings to avoid travel, Denver Mayor, Mike Hancock flies to visit family for Thanksgiving (10025 votes) | https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/denver-mayor-michael-hancock-travels-thanksgiving/73-e6b5f236-b0c7-4415-a22e-c84dd6f7acf1 | https://redd.it/k0wuwh | 03:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Korea: +583 cases (now 32318), +2 deaths (now 515) since 23 hours ago — France: +12182 cases (now 2.2 million) since 20 hours ago — Netherlands: +3690 cases (now 501312), +56 deaths (now 9129) since 20 hours ago — Canada: +5854 cases (now 348388), +92 deaths (now 11713) since 22 hours ago | 03:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: England's regional tiers to be set out: Most areas are expected to be put in the two toughest tiers of restrictions when the lockdown ends. → https://is.gd/jZmHIS | 04:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Coronavirus cases rose rapidly after Canada's Thanksgiving gatherings → https://is.gd/t4W0Nd | 04:26 |
| kara[m] | ljl; oh it's working now | 04:59 |
| bertha[m]1 | lol | 04:59 |
| LjL | kara[m], yeah i tested with a few other people, it was probably matrix.org being slow and quirky at that time | 05:25 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: In the lab, St. Jude researchers uncover origins of deadly inflammation caused by the novel coronavirus (95 votes) | https://www.stjude.org/inspire/news/st-jude-scientists-make-advance-in-covid-19.html?linkId=104985052&fbclid=IwAR0u2T5CwuBn8axV3JHr2FnnzJSepFBfsIuaZ52Wr8rnvEDhOALr9WSmlNs | https://redd.it/k16jso | 05:27 |
| kara[m] | thanks! | 05:30 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: No evidence for increased transmissibility from recurrent mutations in SARS-CoV-2 (80 votes) | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19818-2 | https://redd.it/k105us | 05:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 685: Pandemicky: The TWiVers analyze efficacy of the AstraZeneca/Oxford adenovirus vectored vaccine, SARS-CoV-2 did not infect miners who became ill 8 years ago after cleaning bat guano from a cave in Yunnan Province, and induction of antigen-specific germinal center responses and production of neutralizing antibody [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/sOc5xX | 06:15 |
| de-facto[m] | %title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2951-z | 06:33 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto[m]: From www.nature.com: Addendum: A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin | Nature | 06:33 |
| de-facto[m] | From Zheng-Li Shi herself | 06:34 |
| de-facto[m] | Reminder: she discovered it | 06:35 |
| de-facto[m] | %title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2012-7 | 06:35 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto[m]: From www.nature.com: A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin | Nature | 06:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +30970 cases (now 995879) since 20 hours ago — Curacao, Netherlands: +102 cases (now 1929) since a day ago — Belgium: +3164 cases (now 564967), +139 deaths (now 16077) since a day ago — Bermuda, United Kingdom: +12 cases (now 239) since 5 days ago | 07:08 |
| de-facto[m] | RKI Germany: Infections +22268 (983588 total), Fatalities +389 (15160 total), iCU 3795 with 2249 on ventilator | 07:21 |
| Brainstorm | New preprint: Nurses' burnout and associated risk factors during the COVID-19 pandemic: a systematic review and meta-analysis by Petros A Galanis et al, published on 2020-11-25 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.11.24.20237750 [... want %more?] | 07:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Jaclyn Diaz: Supreme Court Says New York Can't Limit Attendance In Houses of Worship Due To COVID → https://is.gd/VeSuXD | 07:28 |
| gigasu_shida | de-facto[m]: hey =) | 07:34 |
| tinwhiskers | hey gigasu_shida | 07:35 |
| gigasu_shida | hello tinwhiskers =) | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: ‘Zombie mink’ rise from graves after mass culling over Covid-19 fears → https://is.gd/Ie7AGU | 07:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Saint Petersburg, Russia: +3421 cases (now 107464), +85 deaths (now 5138) since a day ago — Zaporizhia Oblast, Ukraine: +1086 cases (now 26328), +11 deaths (now 267) since a day ago — Moscow Oblast, Russia: +1005 cases (now 105748), +22 deaths (now 1965) since a day ago — Odessa Oblast, Ukraine: +976 cases (now 39742), +12 deaths (now 529) since a day ago | 07:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Sudan's Former Prime Minister Sadiq Al-Mahdi Dies Of COVID-19: The former premier's political party confirmed his death on Thursday. He was 84 and died in the United Arab Emirates, where he was receiving treatment. → https://is.gd/QII7Em | 08:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: England's regional tiers to be set out: Most areas are expected to be put in the two toughest tiers of restrictions when the lockdown ends. → https://is.gd/jZmHIS | 08:17 |
| de-facto[m] | Hey hey gigasu_shida | 09:03 |
| gigasu_shida | hello sir | 09:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: China, South Korea top diplomats pledge to work on North Korea, COVID-19 → https://is.gd/9Hkzj6 | 09:05 |
| de-facto[m] | How is it going? | 09:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): World’s largest medical glove maker becomes the epicenter of Malaysia’s Covid resurgence → https://is.gd/xZekB4 | 09:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +25487 cases (now 2.2 million), +524 deaths (now 38062) since a day ago | 09:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Estonia: +414 cases (now 10955), +2 deaths (now 99) since a day ago | 09:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Coronavirus treatments: some progress, no panacea: Nearly a year after a mysterious pneumonia emerged in China and began its global spread, there is still no silver bullet treatment for COVID-19 despite an unprecedented effort to discover new medicines or repurpose existing drugs. → https://is.gd/MRSYPZ | 09:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: England's regional tiers to be set out: Most areas are expected to be put in the two toughest tiers of restrictions when the lockdown ends. → https://is.gd/jZmHIS | 10:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: California records new high in coronavirus cases: California reported a record number of coronavirus cases Wednesday as Los Angeles restaurants prepared to close for three weeks and firefighters in Silicon Valley were being enlisted to help enforce public health rules to try to halt the spread of infections. → https://is.gd/saF4It | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: LatAm governments facing vaccine distribution challenges: Cash-strapped Latin American governments face severe geographical, economic and social challenges in trying to ensure life-saving COVID-19 vaccines are made available to vulnerable populations, experts say. → https://is.gd/J9sOvp | 10:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Over 2,400 US COVID deaths in 24 hours, a six-month high: The United States on Wednesday registered more than 2,400 deaths from COVID-19 in 24 hours, according to the Johns Hopkins University tally—the highest daily toll in six months as the Thanksgiving holiday began. → https://is.gd/ApcdEf | 10:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: 'Infodemic' risks jeopardising virus vaccines: As early as February, with the global pandemic spreading fast, the World Health Organization issued a warning about an "infodemic", a wave of fake news and misinformation about the deadly new disease on social media. → https://is.gd/1Z1O33 | 10:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Croatia: +4009 cases (now 115626), +51 deaths (now 1552) since 23 hours ago — Finland: +496 cases (now 23148) since 22 hours ago | 11:08 |
| bertha[m]1 | eesh | 11:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: After year-long sprint, COVID-19 vaccines finally at hand: Less than a year after an unknown coronavirus that has claimed 1.4 million lives began spreading across the globe, a number of highly promising COVID-19 vaccines are on the cusp of release. → https://is.gd/LgpXpe | 11:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: COVID-19: Twelve key milestones in a year like no other: From the first cases in central China to hopes of a vaccine a year later, here are a dozen key developments in the spread and subsequent fight against COVID-19. → https://is.gd/4kzefF | 11:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Protein commonly screened for in pregnancy is linked to gestational diabetes: Laboratory research and analysis of epidemiological data by Silvia Corvera, MD, and Tiffany Moore Simas, MD, MPH, MEd, and colleagues show that low levels of a protein commonly seen in screening tests for chromosomal disorders during the first [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/f5wHtV | 11:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +373 deaths (now 15408) since 23 hours ago | 11:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +4509 cases (now 313978), +79 deaths (now 4418) since 23 hours ago | 12:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Germany Extends Strict Lockdown Measures With Eye Towards Reopening Ski Slopes: Chancellor Angela Merkel extended limits on private gatherings, and will keep bars and restaurants closed through December, but she asked the EU to agree on a time to reopen the region's ski slopes. → https://is.gd/uRTUqx | 12:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Sweden's Prince Carl Philip and wife test positive for coronavirus → https://is.gd/btl7Q8 | 13:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iran: +13961 cases (now 908346), +482 deaths (now 46689) since a day ago | 13:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Add Covid-related myocarditis, mechanical ventilation, and death to this year’s football risks: So many Mississippi high school football programs canceled games due to Covid-19 outbreaks that Mississippi Today dubbed Covid-19 "the clear winner in the 2020 Mississippi high school football championship playoffs." → https://is.gd/GPO84Z | 13:18 |
| joerg | zombie minks? WTF? | 13:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from "COVID-19 pandemic in Denmark" on Wikipedia: Pardy: /* Statistics */: Statistics ← Previous revision Revision as of 12:56, 26 November 2020 Line 224: Line 224: |xAxisAngle=-60 |xAxisAngle=-60 − |x=27 Feb, 28 Feb, 29 Feb, 1 Mar, 2 Mar, 3 Mar, 4 Mar, 5 Mar, 6 Mar, 7 Mar, 8 Mar, 9 Mar, 10 Mar, 11 Mar, 12 Mar, 13 Mar, 14 Mar, 15 Mar, 16 Mar, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/58UIK3 | 14:03 |
| zutt | joerg: wait, zombie? wat | 14:08 |
| zutt | I know theres some cases of minks spreading corona (or potentially spreading? I know they were eliminated soon as they found out), but zombie versions of them? ;O | 14:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid-19: Most of England facing tough rules after lockdown: Millions will see curbs on gatherings indoors from next week, under new Covid-19 restrictions. → https://is.gd/2pbPvI | 14:15 |
| joerg | [2020-11-26 07:40:06] <Brainstorm> New from The Indian Express: World: ‘Zombie mink’ rise from graves after mass culling over Covid-19 fears → https://is.gd/Ie7AGU | 14:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Latvia: +898 cases (now 15171), +4 deaths (now 188) since a day ago — Netherlands: +4470 cases (now 503123), +75 deaths (now 9184) since 23 hours ago | 14:21 |
| zutt | ty, that was interesting news article :P | 14:24 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Rite Aid to offer COVID-19 vaccine for free once it's available (10229 votes) | https://6abc.com/rite-aid-covid-19-vaccine-coronavirus-cdc/8263648/ | https://redd.it/k18m0w | 14:24 |
| snake | WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYEAH | 14:26 |
| snake | sorry | 14:26 |
| snake | i'm glad that i can get a free covid-19 vaccine at rite-aid | 14:26 |
| snake | hmm | 14:26 |
| snake | but if i go to my doctor, i can avoid being in a crowd of people trying to get a free vaccine | 14:27 |
| rpifan | hm | 14:36 |
| rpifan | well at least thats better then whats likelyto happen in germany | 14:36 |
| rpifan | its incredible how bad the US system is but how bad the germans can be as well | 14:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): AstraZeneca and Oxford defend Covid vaccine trials after questions raised in the U.S. → https://is.gd/tfWZG1 | 14:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +183221 cases (now 13.1 million), +2348 deaths (now 268364) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +369 deaths (now 15414) since 23 hours ago | 14:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Post - November 26 | Questions, images, videos, comments, unconfirmed reports, theories, suggestions → https://is.gd/hX2ue4 | 15:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Serbia: +7606 cases (now 148214), +51 deaths (now 1366) since a day ago — Azerbaijan: +3705 cases (now 106101), +32 deaths (now 1256) since 22 hours ago | 15:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Atlantic: Pandemic Data Is About to Go Sideways: Editor’s Note: The Atlantic is making vital coverage of the coronavirus available to all readers. Find the collection here . → https://is.gd/2wdYwM | 15:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Greece extends coronavirus lockdown by a week: Greece's government spokesman on Thursday announced a weeklong extension to the country's current lockdown, due to the continued spread of the coronavirus, particularly in the north of the country. → https://is.gd/TfF2Ot | 15:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Africa CDC sees COVID-19 vaccinations in 2nd quarter of 2021: Vaccinations against COVID-19 in Africa might not start until the second quarter of next year, the continent's top public health official said Thursday, adding that it will be "extremely dangerous" if more developed parts of the world vaccinate themselves and then [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/dfXkL7 | 16:05 |
| joerg | rpifan: hm? whats wrong with german vaccine deployment program? | 16:09 |
| rpifan | oh just in general | 16:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Sitting for turkey? WHO reminds all to get more active: As the coronavirus leaves many people housebound and many Americans sit to feast for Thanksgiving, the World Health Organization says people need to get more active, insisting that up to 5 million deaths worldwide could be avoided each year if people would run, walk and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/QdKSfe | 16:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Italy to launch first Europe-US 'virus-free' flights: Italy is to offer Europe's first coronavirus-free corridor with the United States for passengers who have tested negative for COVID-19, scrapping the obligation for new arrivals to quarantine. → https://is.gd/jaI05y | 16:30 |
| hooper | !covid | 16:38 |
| CoronaBot | Total cases: 60,925,173 (+212,179), deaths: 1,430,623 (+4,627), recovered: 42,209,452. Active cases: 17,285,098, 17,180,471 are in a mild condition, 104,627 are in a serious condition. Mortality: 2.35%, case fatality rate: 3.28%. Case rate: 616,434/24h, death rate: 12,025/24h. Last update: 13m ago. | 16:38 |
| hooper | !france | 16:39 |
| hooper | !fr | 16:39 |
| hooper | !help | 16:39 |
| CoronaBot | ,01[OK] Coronavirus commands: | 16:39 |
| CoronaBot | Show global stats: !corona | Show stats for a country/state (US/AU/CA): !corona country | Show stats for a county (US): !corona county, state (ex: !corona new york city, ny) | 16:39 |
| CoronaBot | Top ten infected countries today: !corona today | all-time: !corona alltime | Top ten countries with fatalities today: !corona todaydead | all-time: !corona alltimedead | 16:39 |
| CoronaBot | Top ten infected states/provinces: !usa !australia !canada | 16:39 |
| hooper | !corona france | 16:40 |
| CoronaBot | France: Global rank: #5, cases: 2,170,097, fatalities: 50,618, active cases: 1,962,927, total recovered: 156,552, in a serious condition: 4,148. Mortality: 2.33%, case fatality rate: -, cases/1M: 33216.0, deaths/1M: 775.0. Case rate: 16,282/24h, death rate: 381/24h. Tests: 20,098,815, tests/1M: 307,641. | 16:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: What can you expect if you get a call from a COVID contact tracer?: "Test, trace and isolate" has become the catch cry of the COVID-19 pandemic. It's recognised as an essential strategy for containing the spread of the virus. → https://is.gd/QC6rqy | 16:42 |
| kr4bat[m] | Cov Bot: !cases Germany | 16:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Sweden expects to reach virus peak in mid-December: Swedish health officials said Thursday they expected the country to reach the peak of the second wave of COVID-19 infections the country is experiencing in the middle of December. → https://is.gd/D1I1L8 | 16:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Purdue pharma pleads guilty over role in U.S. opioid epidemic: (HealthDay)—Purdue Pharma pleaded guilty to three criminal charges linked to the Oxycontin maker's role in the nation's opioid epidemic. → https://is.gd/ksxPkK | 17:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Moldova: +1691 cases (now 102894), +20 deaths (now 2229) since a day ago | 17:07 |
| joerg | somehat on topic https://www.der-postillon.com/2020/11/corona-weihnachtslieder.html | 17:19 |
| joerg | somewhat even | 17:19 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +29001 cases (now 1.5 million), +822 deaths (now 52850) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +17555 cases (now 1.6 million), +498 deaths (now 57031) since 22 hours ago | 17:21 |
| joerg | !owner | 17:21 |
| joerg | !australia | 17:22 |
| CoronaBot | Top infected states: Victoria: #1 (20,345), New South Wales: #2 (4,363), Queensland: #3 (1,197), Western Australia: #4 (808), South Australia: #5 (557), Tasmania: #6 (230), Australian Capital Territory: #7 (115), Northern Territory: #8 (0) | 17:22 |
| joerg | !germany | 17:22 |
| joerg | hmmm | 17:22 |
| Haley[m] | %cases france | 17:22 |
| Brainstorm | Haley[m]: In France, there have been 2.2 million confirmed cases (3.2% of the population) and 50618 deaths (2.3% of cases) as of 9 hours ago. 20.1 million tests were performed (10.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data. | 17:22 |
| joerg | !corona germany | 17:23 |
| CoronaBot | Germany: Global rank: #12, cases: 987,124 (+3,393), fatalities: 15,425 (+44), active cases: 295,599, total recovered: 676,100, in a serious condition: 3,781. Mortality: 1.56%, case fatality rate: 2.23%, cases/1M: 11767.0, deaths/1M: 184.0. Case rate: 20,825/24h, death rate: 416/24h. Tests: 27,859,242, tests/1M: 332,083. | 17:23 |
| joerg | !corona australia | 17:23 |
| CoronaBot | Australia: Global rank: #95, cases: 27,867 (+11), fatalities: 907, active cases: 1,395, total recovered: 25,565, in a serious condition: -. Mortality: 3.25%, case fatality rate: 3.43%, cases/1M: 1088.0, deaths/1M: 35.0. Case rate: 7/24h, death rate: 0/24h. Tests: 9,878,139, tests/1M: 385,585. | 17:23 |
| joerg | !australia | 17:24 |
| CoronaBot | Top infected states: Victoria: #1 (20,345), New South Wales: #2 (4,363), Queensland: #3 (1,197), Western Australia: #4 (808), South Australia: #5 (557), Tasmania: #6 (230), Australian Capital Territory: #7 (115), Northern Territory: #8 (0) | 17:24 |
| joerg | mhm | 17:24 |
| joerg | %cases germany | 17:25 |
| Brainstorm | joerg: In Germany, there have been 995879 confirmed cases (1.2% of the population) and 15425 deaths (1.5% of cases) as of an hour ago. 27.9 million tests were performed (3.6% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 17:26 |
| joerg | !corona germany | 17:26 |
| CoronaBot | Germany: Global rank: #12, cases: 987,124 (+3,393), fatalities: 15,425 (+44), active cases: 295,599, total recovered: 676,100, in a serious condition: 3,781. Mortality: 1.56%, case fatality rate: 2.23%, cases/1M: 11767.0, deaths/1M: 184.0. Case rate: 20,825/24h, death rate: 416/24h. Tests: 27,859,242, tests/1M: 332,083. | 17:26 |
| joerg | cases: 987,124 (+3,393) the trend number is pretty bogus, eh? | 17:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Thursday 26 November Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://is.gd/RsWIR1 | 17:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Arizona, US: +3476 cases (now 314326), +44 deaths (now 6568) since a day ago | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): AstraZeneca and Oxford defend Covid vaccine trials after questions raised in the U.S. → https://is.gd/tfWZG1 | 17:56 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Pennsylvania, US: +7427 cases (now 340998) since 21 hours ago | 18:07 |
| Jigsy | %cases UK | 18:12 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 1.6 million confirmed cases (2.4% of the population) and 57031 deaths (3.6% of cases) as of 55 minutes ago. 42.2 million tests were performed (3.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 18:12 |
| Jigsy | Wow, 2.4%. | 18:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: 'Additional study' needed for AstraZeneca vaccine: company: The head of British drug manufacturer AstraZeneca said on Thursday further research was needed on its COVID-19 vaccine after questions emerged over the protection it could offer. → https://is.gd/DJpxK0 | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +5142 cases (now 350422), +74 deaths (now 11763) since 22 hours ago | 18:53 |
| LjL | ouch | 18:54 |
| LjL | de-facto, tinwhiskers, joerg: ↑ AstraZeneca will need to run an additional study to make sense of the dubious results, apparently. so let's not hold our breath for this vaccine to be available... | 18:56 |
| LjL | who else probably wants to be highlighted about this... yuriwho, ubLIX[m]? | 18:57 |
| tinwhiskers | Mmm | 19:01 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Significantly Decreased Mortality in a Large Cohort of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Patients Transfused Early with Convalescent Plasma Containing High-Titer Anti–Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) Spike Protein IgG (84 votes) | https://ajp.amjpathol.org/article/S0002-9440(20)30489-2/fulltext | https://redd.it/k1fxg7 | 19:14 |
| LjL | "Soriot said he didn’t expect the additional trial to hold up regulatory approvals in the U.K. and European Union. Clearance from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration may take longer because the regulator is unlikely to approve the vaccine on the basis of studies conducted elsewhere, especially given the questions over the results, he said. Authorization in some countries is still expected before the end of the year, he said." | 19:14 |
| LjL | so they admittedly don't know to what extent it works, but they'll approve it for use anyway in the meanwhile :P nice | 19:15 |
| LjL | source https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-26/astra-likely-to-run-fresh-global-covid-vaccine-trial-ceo-says | 19:15 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: it's phase 3.5 | 19:20 |
| IndoAnon | no, 3.1 | 19:20 |
| LjL | 4.0alpha1 | 19:20 |
| IndoAnon | :p | 19:21 |
| IndoAnon | phase 4(死) would be widespread deployment... | 19:21 |
| LjL | ouch | 19:22 |
| IndoAnon | haha | 19:22 |
| LjL | let's call it よん | 19:22 |
| IndoAnon | sure, if you prefer that way | 19:24 |
| IndoAnon | i've reached conclusion that it will only offer """protection""" similar to recovered plasma | 19:27 |
| LjL | oh cool you can reach conclusions without running a study? maybe you should tell them :P | 19:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from CDC (old): Cases & Deaths by County: Find national and local rates for COVID cases and deaths in the United States. → https://is.gd/yJtqEF | 19:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: "I'm a COVID nurse. I've seen so much death. Please don't gather this Thanksgiving" I agree, stay home....but i am hearing so much burn out in nurses: this is similar to being a combat nurse or doctor. The world needs to consider that. → https://is.gd/QphYD5 | 20:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +15212 cases (now 1.6 million), +337 deaths (now 44374) since a day ago | 20:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA SALUTE - ORDINANZA 23 novembre 2020: Misure urgenti per la sperimentazione di voli Covid-tested.(20A06579) → https://is.gd/A6vszk | 20:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +20370 cases (now 998037), +390 deaths (now 15645) since 23 hours ago | 20:35 |
| yuriwho | LjL: yes, things are looking rough for Astrazeneca. They botched their trial and discovered the dosing regime they intended was potentially less effective than the accidental lower dose regiment.. They we not fully transparent with the reasons and results and may need to do a new trial just to test the lower dose regime properly. Probably sets them back by 4 months and a whole load of money too. | 20:47 |
| LjL | yuriwho, but at the same time it says the need for a new trial "probably" won't set back the date for approval in the EU, while it will in the US. i'm a bit befuddled wondering how it could possibly be approved before they admittedly know it works | 20:48 |
| yuriwho | to be fair, the regulatory agencies did state that >50% effective was their criteria for approvals | 20:50 |
| joerg | LjL: many thanks for the info | 20:52 |
| LjL | yuriwho, hmm, yeah, true. quite a low bar, but they did. | 20:52 |
| kevin-oculus | so what do you think of black friday | 21:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Sudan's last democratically elected prime minister dies of Covid-19 → https://is.gd/oGiHkT | 21:33 |
| de-facto | hmm if they think they need another study it probably also means that they have quite a low number of COVID cases in their accidental half-dose/full-dose branch (hence probably not significant enough for their 90% claim, also only in younger people?) | 21:41 |
| de-facto | thats exactly why i said i am curious to see their raw data about that branch | 21:42 |
| de-facto | also i am still curious about their claimed weekly routine nasal swabs in the British branch of their study | 21:44 |
| de-facto | would be awesome to see if they can make any statements about asymptomatic infections (or prevention of them) | 21:44 |
| morgankevins[m] | Hi | 21:48 |
| morgankevins[m] | I need your opinion about this -> https://mynews.one/breaking-doctors-warn-cdc-to-warn-americans-that-the-first-jab-will-get-them-sick/ | 21:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +4660 cases (now 504272) since 23 hours ago | 21:53 |
| de-facto | i think the protection from severe COVID-19 is worth some temporary side effects by vaccinations, i would go for it if i had the opportunity to get offered a certified vaccine | 22:02 |
| joerg | >><LjL> so they admittedly don't know to what extent it works<< they know it works at least 70% | 22:07 |
| morgankevins[m] | This is message what going true viber chat and groups. What do you think about it. "The Final cause of COVID was found in Germany"-https://mynews.one/the-final-cause-of-covid-was-found-in-germany/ | 22:07 |
| de-facto | sorry that is nonsense | 22:12 |
| joerg | sounds like clickbait BS | 22:13 |
| joerg | "final cause" *plonk* | 22:14 |
| de-facto | some of the the mechanisms by which SARS-CoV-2 causes blood cloths is known, it attacks the epithelial cells in blood vessels damaging them hence leading to release of Von Willebrand factor initiating a clotting cascade | 22:14 |
| de-facto | others may be related to the cytokine storm itself (overreaction of the immune system) and maybe also some unknown causes but by the virus itself (either directly or indirectly caused) | 22:15 |
| de-facto | the anti-coagulant medications are now for long time included in standard care for COVID-19 in clinics all over the world, so if that was the only problem and its addressed, how come we still see so many fatalities? | 22:16 |
| de-facto | its because its just *one* of the problems with COVID-19 | 22:16 |
| joerg | oh, you say they rather should have headlined it >>the basic operation principle [OWTTE] been found<<? | 22:17 |
| joerg | final cause is the virus | 22:17 |
| de-facto | but thanks for posting that article, it helps a lot with clarifying the quality standard from that website, hence never trust articled from "mynews.one" if they also post such nonsensical stuff | 22:17 |
| joerg | :-D ta | 22:18 |
| joerg | my thought | 22:18 |
| de-facto | "COVID-19 is not a virus, as they have led us to believe. It is a bacterium that, when amplified by 5G electromagnetic radiation, causes inflammation and hypoxia." <<-- LMFAO thats hilarious | 22:18 |
| joerg | pleeeeeaaaase | 22:19 |
| joerg | "final cause" *plonk* | 22:19 |
| de-facto | i still cant believe people write stuff like that, either they make fun of it (which is not ok for such a severe disease where 12000 people die from it every day), or they really believe such things which is a clear statement about severe lack of mental capacity to process even basic information | 22:21 |
| joerg | morgankevins[m]: I actually suggest you apply mental spam filter to wording like "final cause" | 22:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CDC (old): Cases & Deaths by County: Find national and local rates for COVID cases and deaths in the United States. → https://is.gd/yJtqEF | 22:21 |
| joerg | I tjought such filter list of keywords was common sense, seems I was wrong about that | 22:22 |
| joerg | add "get .* sick" to that list as well | 22:24 |
| LjL | joerg, they don't know it works "at least" 70%. 70% is the average of the two arms. the full-dose arm had 62%, which may well mean the confidence interval stretches below 50% | 22:25 |
| joerg | LjL: right, the lower was only what, 63%? my mistake | 22:26 |
| joerg | I give them benefit of doubt for now | 22:27 |
| de-facto | is it known what they count as cases or vaccine failures? would they have to develop symptoms or would it already be sufficient if they test positive in their weekly nasal swabs? I guess symptomatic because nasal swabs were only done in the UK branch of their study... | 22:28 |
| LjL | what i *don't* give the benefit of the doubt is that bullshit article. morgankevins[m], i hope you can see MANY reasons to infer that the article is bullshit. for starters, there is no such thing as a "BACTER". | 22:28 |
| joerg | much more relevant, in my book: were any possible side effects and adverse reactions / complications diligently monitored? | 22:28 |
| LjL | blood clotting is indeed a problem with COVID-19 | 22:28 |
| LjL | that isn't something they just discovered, we've known it for a while. it doesn't mean that the virus isn't the cause | 22:29 |
| LjL | i won't even go on reading the rest, it's obvious misinformation, complete with the "show all your friends" etc | 22:29 |
| de-facto | i would strongly recommend against sharing that, because it implies that its possible to believe that, which implies .... well you know | 22:30 |
| LjL | also if the WHO has a "rule" that "forbids" autopsies on COVID-19 patients (by the way the WHO cannot issue rules to countries, afaik), how come i've read multiple studies based on patient autopsies before? | 22:30 |
| joerg | LjL: I refused to click any of those URLs, they stink from mere URL text | 22:30 |
| LjL | well i run this channel, i need to know what's being posted | 22:30 |
| LjL | that is the kind of article that, were it posted as "truth", would get a quite immediate ban | 22:31 |
| joerg | ack, I feel with you. Now declare this a banable subject :-D | 22:31 |
| LjL | nah, i'm not dTal, i deal with my anger from seeing stuff like this by freaking out and having huge arguments and eventually banning the wrong person, not by changing the channel topic and saying that you can't talk about it | 22:32 |
| dTal | I heard my name | 22:32 |
| joerg | should bne really simple and quite effective | 22:34 |
| LjL | dTal, must be hallucinations | 22:35 |
| de-facto | if we had a blacklist of conspiracy sites dns names | 22:35 |
| joerg | "BS assassin: 'sick' in URL: +3.5" | 22:35 |
| LjL | joerg, i used to have a bot called "MetaBot" that classified all the questions from #ubuntu and related channels into spam and ham, and additionally, ham ones into various categories :P | 22:35 |
| LjL | it sometimes even got them right! | 22:35 |
| LjL | de-facto, i had a bot that blacklisted sites, too | 22:35 |
| joerg | wow!!!! | 22:35 |
| LjL | but it's written in P H P | 22:35 |
| de-facto | oh | 22:36 |
| de-facto | what was the upstream for such blacklists? | 22:36 |
| de-facto | or was it categorizing them on its own? | 22:36 |
| LjL | de-facto, it was using a bunch of DNS RBLs, it wasn't really specific to conspiracy sites at all | 22:37 |
| de-facto | so it would depend on how literally they take their advice "send it to all your friends" themselves then | 22:38 |
| LjL | :D | 22:39 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: ‘Disinformation is killing us’: ‘Former Texas nurse shares experiences of working on the front line (10158 votes) | https://www.msnbc.com/craig-melvin/watch/disinformation-is-killing-us-former-texas-nurse-shares-experiences-of-working-on-the-front-line-96616517546 | https://redd.it/k1eyp2 | 22:39 |
| LjL | CoronaBot tries to beat Brainstorm in being topical | 22:39 |
| de-facto | those bots are creepy sometimes :P | 22:40 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto is creepy sometimes... | 22:41 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto is creepy sometimes... | 22:41 |
| de-facto | is it the filter that we only recognize when they post on current discussion topic and neglect when they dont or ... | 22:41 |
| LjL | and now it's time for | 22:41 |
| de-facto | ah there hehe my suspicion :D | 22:41 |
| ubLIX[m] | The power of Lisp compels you! | 22:42 |
| ubLIX[m] | The power of Lisp compels you! | 22:42 |
| ubLIX[m] | thanks LjL (highlight) | 22:42 |
| de-facto | lool | 22:43 |
| LjL | ubLIX[m], hopefully your cruel and unusual country has deals with other vaccine makers than Oxford too! | 22:43 |
| ubLIX[m] | uh, we'll see, if we don't implode first | 22:45 |
| aggi | russians reported: vaccination with sputnik-v requires at least one month for a immune response to fully develop | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Government Model Suggests U.S. COVID-19 Cases Could Be Approaching 100 Million: Government scientists estimate that the true number of coronavirus infections is eight times the reported number of 12.5 million, meaning "most of the country remains at risk," the team reports. → https://is.gd/oM5zjQ | 22:45 |
| de-facto | Damn it Germany just passed 1M cases recently | 22:45 |
| de-facto | %cases Germany | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: In Germany, there have been 1.0 million confirmed cases (1.2% of the population) and 15764 deaths (1.6% of cases) as of an hour ago. 27.9 million tests were performed (3.6% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.3% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 22:45 |
| de-facto | yeah there :( | 22:45 |
| de-facto | its common timescale for most vaccines to have one month duration for developing immunity as far as i know | 22:46 |
| de-facto | like first primer shot, 4 weeks later second boost shot then one week after that immunity is somewhat there or such | 22:47 |
| joerg | de-facto: ((1E6)) damn sad record | 22:48 |
| joerg | ((4 weeks)) already was about to ask >>how's that noteworthy?<< | 22:50 |
| de-facto | indeed, especially when the number of not detected cases would have to be assumed to be like between 5x and 10x of those discovered and confirmed 1M cases | 22:50 |
| de-facto | and btw all curves for Germany look like we have a perfect endemic state, like no increase but also no decline | 22:51 |
| de-facto | so we probably will have like 500 fatal outcomes every day until we decide to increase containment | 22:51 |
| joerg | it's about time to get data on estimated number of unknown cases, from some decent randomized poll | 22:51 |
| de-facto | indeed | 22:52 |
| joerg | yeah, no decline whatsoever. Too litte, too late. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. | 22:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Oregon, US: +1503 cases (now 70006), +15 deaths (now 882) since 23 hours ago | 22:53 |
| de-facto | and unfortunately the latest "restrictions" look like they are not nearly enough to bring cases down to their goal of weekly 50/100k or daily ~6k | 22:53 |
| joerg | R_eff not only =1, even noise is "better than my hifi amp" :-/ | 22:54 |
| de-facto | schools are still open, big mistake in my opinion. i can only repeat on that. | 22:54 |
| euod[m] | I'm not sure why anybody would think otherwise. | 22:55 |
| de-facto | just got a message the teacher of my colleague tested positive, hence need quarantine again :( | 22:55 |
| euod[m] | first of all just the expectation that children will follow guidance is.. dumb. | 22:55 |
| joerg | de-facto: ooooh, those measures WILL bring down numbers to <50/100k7d.... .... in April 2020 | 22:55 |
| de-facto | one of many papers about this https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30785-4/fulltext | 22:56 |
| de-facto | %title | 22:56 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: The temporal association of introducing and lifting non-pharmaceutical interventions with the time-varying reproduction number (R) of SARS-CoV-2: a modelling study across 131 countries - The Lancet [...] | 22:56 |
| de-facto | "...although the increase was significant only for school reopening (R ratio 1·24, 95% CI 1·00–1·52) and lifting bans on public gatherings of more than ten people (1·25, 1·03–1·51)..." | 22:57 |
| de-facto | hence 24% in 28 days, thats quite a lot | 22:57 |
| de-facto | although to be fair its hard to compare schools in different countries due to quite big variations in their containment methods | 22:57 |
| de-facto | still schools are the common denominator connecting households and the "kids should be happy and see faces" hence they dont require them to stick to strict methods preventing transmission such as distancing and wearing masks in classes (at least for the younger) | 22:59 |
| aggi | and the evidence and data which was presented didn't suffice to support any measures were effective, it is purely hypothetical to assume any typical measure could be effective in densely populated areas | 22:59 |
| de-facto | then they dont ensure they pack tightly in school buses prior and after their classes | 23:00 |
| aggi | the contact reduction approach is weird too, since a single(!) contact sufficed to spread | 23:00 |
| joerg | aggi: the opposite point of view makers more sense: data which was presented didn't suffice to support any measures were *IN*effective | 23:01 |
| de-facto | well the curve for Germany went from exponential to linear to even constant number of cases hence endemic (R~1) so the measures that were implemented did have some effect obviously (if testing did not decouple completely from real incidence which is not to be assumed looking at the other numbers such as hospitalizations etc) | 23:01 |
| aggi | and this couldn't be verified reliably at least joerg | 23:02 |
| de-facto | it really looks like we barely achieved endemic state (constant number of new infections every day) in Germany with the containment measures that were implemented but that is not enough unfortunately | 23:02 |
| aggi | beyond recognizing typical seasonal fluctuations existed, and preceeding years had to be compared with the current one | 23:03 |
| aggi | presenting any data concerning effectiveness without a comparison with previous years is absolutely useless | 23:03 |
| de-facto | there are other independent sources of information: tests confirming daily new cases, people with respiratory problems asking for medical help (at doctors or hospitals), people getting a fever (that project from rki), people occupying ICU beds, daily fatalities etc | 23:04 |
| joerg | aggi: sorry, how would you compare to last year when last year there existed no such virus? | 23:04 |
| de-facto | if all those independently go for saturation (hence more or less constant state) it is a strong indicator that infections (the cause of all of this) did the same | 23:04 |
| aggi | joerg: i would check seasonal fluctuations of reported sick leaves, number of hospitalized patients etc. etc. | 23:05 |
| joerg | aggi: did you reconsider your approach to posting statements in here? | 23:05 |
| aggi | and only with such a comparison and normalization of data any conclusion about the effectiveness could be drawn, if at all | 23:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +5944 cases (now 352076), +89 deaths (now 11778) since 23 hours ago | 23:07 |
| ubLIX[m] | ugh | 23:07 |
| genera | lhttps://www.spiegel.de/panorama/hildburghausen-buergermeister-tilo-kummer-ueber-corona-protest-a-477935b8-a17c-4244-ac82-fb1488d848d2 a little insigt into how the situation is drifting sideways | 23:08 |
| de-facto | its because of those protesting against containing the virus that we dont see more aggressive containment that really may have a chance of success, hence my calling them saboteurs | 23:12 |
| aggi | then let me ask another question: why wasn't the availeble data compared with records from previous years but instead unverifiable claims announced only? | 23:12 |
| LjL | https://codeberg.org/corona-contact-tracing-germany/cwa-android | 23:13 |
| LjL | %title | 23:13 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From codeberg.org: corona-contact-tracing-germany/cwa-android: German Corona App without proprietary Google libraries - cwa-android - Codeberg.org | 23:13 |
| de-facto | aggi, now i am curious, what unverifiable claims are you talking about? | 23:13 |
| de-facto | LjL, that looks quite interesting, does it require root? i guess so because of microG | 23:15 |
| LjL | de-facto, the app itself shouldn't require root, but unless you have microG you will still need the proprietary Google exposure notification framework | 23:16 |
| de-facto | so it works with both backends? | 23:17 |
| de-facto | "While the German Corona Warn App itself is Free Software, it depends on Google’s proprietary Exposure Notification Framework. This fork instead uses the drop-in compatible microg implementation. | 23:17 |
| de-facto | " | 23:17 |
| de-facto | kinda looks like its microG exclusively | 23:18 |
| aggi | de-facto, almost all of it: supposed efficacy of vaccination, effectiveness of lockdown measures, the severity of cv19 itself instead of the real health concern (parallel infections with multiple germs, co-mobordity) - and what i am referring to is the public reporting which is crazy, i am not referring to medical concerns themselves but the nonsense which is broadcasted and fraudulently presented as | 23:20 |
| aggi | credible science | 23:20 |
| aggi | *co-morbidity | 23:20 |
| joerg | aggi: did you reconsider your approach to posting statements in here? and let me ask another question: why don't you simply refrain from posting *anything* as long as you can't provide the exact URL of source of the info you refer to (here: "unverifiable claims announced") as well as the exact citation of the phrase in that source that you refer to? | 23:21 |
| LjL | de-facto, no i'm wrong, it doesn't use the clientside library, it uses the standalone implementation, which means it should work regardless of what you have, except that it says it doesn't work with certain versions of gapps | 23:22 |
| aggi | joerg: do you expect me to present hundreds of links required for a PHd thesis? | 23:22 |
| LjL | but in and of itself, you can do the required BLE stuff from a simple app | 23:22 |
| LjL | you just need to be in the foreground | 23:22 |
| de-facto | aggi the efficiency of vaccines we are talking about is purely from press releases so far, but the studies will of course get published when they have them ready | 23:22 |
| joerg | aggi: yes | 23:22 |
| aggi | the claim alone most infections didn't show any symptoms, if no fever measurements were taken and mild fever was probably ignored most often | 23:24 |
| de-facto | the effectiveness of lockdown measures is investigated for quite some time, there are a TON of papers about them, yet its hard to transfer the statements from one area to another since the circumstances (not only weather but culture density behavior demography etc pp) differ quite a lot | 23:24 |
| aggi | so, even if any credible scientist ever wanted to compare data sets from different years it would be futile since not at least fever measurement records were available | 23:24 |
| joerg | aggi: again!!! how would you compare to last year when last year there existed no such virus? | 23:25 |
| de-facto | the severity of COVID-19 itself is quite well known on average, the problem is that since its a new virus its somewhat unpredictable on an individual case bases, so just because statistically its not so severe for young people does *not* mean it is guaranteed not to be very severe for some young people too | 23:25 |
| joerg | >>would be futile since not at least fever measurement records were available<< wrong! there's at least a long term study incl app run by RKI monitoring exactly fever of people participating | 23:27 |
| de-facto | parallel infections are always a problem especially with respiratory diseases, that is nothing new but also a problem in flu seasons (btw i am not saying SARS-COV-2 is comparable to flu, just that in general respiratory diseases and people on ventilators have problems with co-infections) | 23:27 |
| de-facto | the public reporting of all of those is not crazy in my opinion, look at the scientific papers published about this, they are about the newest data available and the newest things that have been learned and discovered about this new disease | 23:28 |
| de-facto | our knowledge today became a lot better than how it was back in the spring | 23:28 |
| aggi | joerg: this isn't questions I had to answer, this is the questions supposedly credible scientists had to answer, which they refused to. | 23:28 |
| de-facto | and when papers are published from credible scientists on their field of specialization in journals with reputation on that field and peer reviewed by other scientists on that field i would call that credible | 23:30 |
| joerg | de-facto: do you really hope for making a difference with >>look at the scientific papers published about this<<? Seems even if the suggestion has effect, the result will not be as expected | 23:30 |
| joerg | >>which they refused to<< citation needed | 23:30 |
| de-facto | dont confuse that with preprint servers, those are for scientific discussion and press cant wait for them to go through peer review hence already writes about stuff that may not yet have come to a consensus, hence be careful about sources | 23:31 |
| joerg | >>this isn't questions<< which question? | 23:32 |
| joerg | >>supposedly credible scientists had to answer<< citation needed | 23:32 |
| aggi | de-facto: even the hypothesis itself had to be verified if statistical anomalies sufficed to indicate a uni-variate correlation with cv19 | 23:32 |
| aggi | since most reports don't at least mention pneumococces, tuberculosis, COPD, air pollution etc. | 23:33 |
| de-facto | which hypothesis ? | 23:33 |
| joerg | de-facto: it's completely futile | 23:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The state of Victoria in Australia achieves 28 days with no new coronavirus cases or deaths → https://is.gd/18RvI9 | 23:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +91 deaths (now 4509) since 11 hours ago | 23:35 |
| de-facto | there is a cause (the "anomaly" of 2020, the SARS-CoV-2 virus pandemic) and an effect (the positive tests, sick people in isolation, full hospital beds, occupied ICU beds, unfortunately also fatalities in some places even in refrigerator trucks) so at least to me that looks like a clear causative correlation, everything else would require additional assumptions that are not properly motivated | 23:36 |
| LjL | de-facto, apparently there's a debug APK here https://gitlab.com/fdroid/rfp/-/issues/1387#note_455617693 | 23:39 |
| de-facto | so following such a case (for example by family members) from infection to hospital and death is anything but a hypothesis, unfortunately its the reality. and btw if hospitals get overloaded so people can not receive the necessary treatment we have seen how that impacts the numbers of fatalities: they raise like crazy | 23:39 |
| de-facto | LjL, nice unfortunately i dont have a device with microG here (even my LineageOS got google play on it) | 23:40 |
| de-facto | yeah i know shame on me | 23:41 |
| de-facto | hmm can i install microG in parallel to Google Play? | 23:41 |
| LjL | no | 23:42 |
| LjL | but you don't need to install microG for this, you need your Google Play not to interfere | 23:43 |
| de-facto | im not sure i understand | 23:43 |
| de-facto | ah it collides with the official CWA on google play i see | 23:45 |
| LjL | de-facto, you typically have three components: the app, a Google client library that's baked inside the app (a wrapper to the API, basically), and separately the Google Play Services themselves | 23:45 |
| LjL | this app uses the microG implementation but as one monolithic thing, instead of divided into those components | 23:45 |
| LjL | de-facto, well i don't know, it says "It will currently not work on devices with play services installed (unless they are at a version before March 2020)" so to me, since i always attribute malice, my guess is that Google actively crippled the ability to run applications that use BLE in this way | 23:46 |
| LjL | but that it would have worked before | 23:46 |
| de-facto | ah so as soon as a version of Google Play services that implements the API is active on the device it would collide with this build of flavor of the CWA because of its baked in microG? | 23:47 |
| LjL | de-facto, i don't know if it's that, i mean, unless the real CWA is installed, why would Google Play's exposure notifications get activated? | 23:48 |
| LjL | hence i think Google did it on purpose to stop such efforts | 23:48 |
| LjL | but i could be wrong | 23:48 |
| de-facto | that would make sense though | 23:55 |
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