libera/##covid-19/ Thursday, 2020-12-10

ryoumais this number for long term safety at 2000 regsarding vitamin d3?  does it assume that you are getting any sun?  what if you are getting none? --- 00:52 <DocScrutinizer05> it's already scrolled out of my extended buffer, but it was like 10,000IU/d is safe for max 1 to 2 months. Long term like max 2000IU/d, rather 500-100000:02
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +6050 cases (now 434519) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +12984 cases (now 1.2 million) since 17 hours ago — Switzerland: +92 deaths (now 5710) since 12 hours ago00:08
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): FDA will likely scrutinize allergic reactions to Pfizer's Covid vaccine in UK before clearing use in U.S., Trump vaccine chief says → https://is.gd/TlvFE900:24
LjLand there goes the seemingly assured FDA approval :|00:34
LjLjust yesterday they were like "yay"00:34
BrainstormNew from The Lancet (Online): Xavier Sáez-Llorens, Ananda S Bandyopadhyay, Christopher Gast, Tirza De Leon, Rodrigo DeAntonio, Jose Jimeno, Maria Isabel Caballero, Gabriela Aguirre, M Steven Oberste, William C Weldon, Jennifer L Konopka-Anstadt, John Modlin, Novilia S Bachtiar, Alan Fix, John Konz, Ralf Clemens, Sue Ann Costa Clemens, Ricardo [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ww1cJp00:36
posseidounhi00:36
BrainstormUpdates for Colorado, US: +3757 cases (now 272346), +267 deaths (now 3639) since a day ago00:36
LjLhi posseidoun00:38
posseidounHI Ljl00:38
DocScrutinizer05ryouma: long term therapy D3/cholecalciferol by 1000IU/d is considered dafe no matter if you get sun or whatever. You should take the pills with some fatty food so the substance can dissolve and be bio-available to you01:11
DocScrutinizer05s.dafe.safe.01:11
DocScrutinizer05the >>I got to think about it, will answer tomorrow<<   >>AAAW SHIT! REALLY?<< reaction never made any sense to me. Whether to >do you want to marry me<< nor to virtually any other question01:15
BrainstormUpdates for Idaho, US: +2298 cases (now 116203), +29 deaths (now 1103) since a day ago — France: +17731 cases (now 2.3 million) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +6932 cases (now 578505), +70 deaths (now 9849) since 23 hours ago01:22
metreo.cases Canada01:29
Brainstormmetreo: In Canada, there have been 435005 confirmed cases (1.1% of the population) and 12954 deaths (3.0% of cases) as of 24 minutes ago. 12.1 million tests were performed (3.6% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 3.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data.01:29
ryoumawell with 1000 iu d3 per d i'd be concerned that i was not getting enough, as i get zero sun.  frequently 4000 iu is cited, and this does not state whehter it applies to all people or to only those who get some sun.01:51
ryoumai suspect fda approval and such, even if usa politics is removed, is there to balance reassuring safety for profits for mfrs against bad press for them and, if they are responsible, the possibility of lowered uptake if htere is a problem.  thalidomide is example of bad press that possibly made them overly cautious in some cases.01:53
ryoumabut in this case they are probably under pressure to be under-cautious.,  it is certainly the case that phase 3 trials and such needed to use larger n with various subpopulations and did not.  and safety is a concern with vaccines due to the legal indemnity for mfrs thing.01:54
ryouma(different from other drugs)01:54
LjLryouma, in FDA's report on the Pfizer vaccine, there were 4 cases of Bell's palsy in the vaccine recipient as opposed to none in the placebo arm. the report says that is consistent with general population data, but based on the general population incidence i saw on wikipedia, i would call that assessment generous02:05
metreoBell's palsy is a temporary condition02:07
ryoumageneral population data as opposed to vaccines in general?  does it imply that over that period of time that many could get that disease in only one of two placebo arms and none in the other?02:07
ryoumait is?  doesn't it occur with stroke and such?02:07
metreoI have family who've had it02:08
metreoit's pretty shocking at first, it looks like a stroke02:08
BrainstormUpdates for Saint Lucia: +1 cases (now 271), +1 deaths (now 3) since 2 days ago02:08
metreobut it goes away02:08
ryoumaare you sure you are not talking about tia?02:08
ryoumai think they should monitor long covid and anything potentially related to it post-vaccination02:09
ryoumafor a wide variety of reasons02:09
DocScrutinizer05>>with 1000 iu d3 per d i'd be concerned that i was not getting enough<< then take 200002:11
LjLmetreo, you don't always fully recover from it02:11
ryoumawell wikipedia said temporary fwiw02:11
LjLmetreo, and in fact i think it said one of the people who had it during the trial has only partially recovered02:11
LjLryouma, wikipedia later goes on to explain how you may not fully recover from it02:12
ryoumaah02:12
LjL"Often signs of improvement begin within 14 days, with complete recovery within six months.[1] A few may not recover completely or have a recurrence of symptoms.[1]"02:12
ryoumaarguably first par is misleading02:12
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: The Oxford/AstraZeneca Vaccine Efficacy Data (81 votes) | https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-data | https://redd.it/ka03gx02:12
LjLah right i still haven't read Derek Lowe's take on AZ02:12
LjLi should read it, then comment on his blog, so i can get banned from there *too*02:12
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: U.S. records more than 3,000 deaths in a single day, a new high → https://is.gd/a6d9so02:15
LjL"The UK trial also had regular swab assays taken to try to get data on asymptomatic infections, which is something that wasn’t done in either the Pfizer/BionTech or Moderna trials. The numbers aren’t huge, and they aren’t tight, but they’re all we have. There were 24 asymptomatic patients in the low-dose-first group, for a vaccine efficacy of 58.9% (95% confidence interval from 1 to 82.9%, and that’s what I mean by “not tight”), and 45 patient02:16
LjLs in the two-standard-dose group (efficacy of 3.8%, unfortunately). So at least for this vaccine, the efficacy at preventing asymptomatic cases is notably lower than that seem for symptomatic ones, and that may well be true for all of them."02:16
LjLso there goes the hope (i really hadn't dug) that the AZ numbers *already included* the asymptomatic cases spotted via routine PCR02:17
tinwhiskersBummer02:19
DocScrutinizer05well, "asymptomatic" seems pretty identical with "no sterile immunity"02:24
DocScrutinizer05the latter being quoted frequently as unknown so far for all sars-cov2 vaccines02:25
DocScrutinizer05I'm curious if there is any data on how many asymptomatic patients develop long covid02:26
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Developing nations are first in line for China's Covid vaccines. Analysts question Beijing’s intent: Countries that are getting priority access to Chinese Covid vaccines may be pressured into supporting Beijing's commercial and political interests, experts say. → https://is.gd/DnB5Q602:27
LjLDocScrutinizer05, the Pfizer FDA report includes a mention of the fact that having no information on asymptomatic cases may hinder long COVID followup02:34
LjLor something i interpreted as that02:35
LjLit really beats me why they didn't routinely PCR all participants in all of these trials02:35
LjLwould it have added very much to the expense?02:35
LjLi mean, maybe the expense of the trial, but isn't that minuscule compared to the expenses of actually developing and producing the vaccine02:35
LjL"Demonstrated high efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 should translate to overall prevention of COVID-19-related sequelae in vaccinated populations, though it is possible that asymptomatic infections may not be prevented as effectively as symptomatic infections and may be associated with sequelae that are either late-onset or undetected at the time of infection (e.g., myocarditis)."02:36
DocScrutinizer05LjL: I suspect it was mostly an administrative/organizational problem in a country where you can't expect your test candidates to show up every day in a clinic or somesuch02:51
LjLwell it doesn't need to be nearly as frequent as every day... AstraZeneca did it, anyway02:52
LjLi don't remember every how often, something like 10 days or two weeks02:52
DocScrutinizer05aaah02:53
DocScrutinizer05cohort size? 40k?02:57
DocScrutinizer05or was that another test...02:58
LjLDocScrutinizer05, Between April 23 and Nov 4, 2020, 23 848 participants were enrolled and 11 636 participants (7548 in the UK, 4088 in Brazil) were included in the interim primary efficacy analysis. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext03:00
DocScrutinizer05hmm, that would be a few hundred per day then, sounds feasible03:02
ryoumayou'd think03:02
ryoumaif i were average in health, i would risk a small chance of bell's palsy; many vaccines will have usch risks, no?  but there are reasons why one might be conerned about things as m.e., which basically never recovers, and parts of long covid, or similar.  specific reasons realteed to the diseases.  there are thought to be possible genetic factors that would be common in the population.  in which if you have those fac03:05
ryoumators, you have higher chance now or later development of such diseases.  thus monitoring those ones would help ensure safety for those with the genetic factors.  not to mention that diseases that frequently occur after viral infections are kind of a no brainer to follow in vaccine devlopment, especially when the grey literature indicates that  certain vaccines can also trigger such.  i think the pfizer vaccine at le03:05
ryoumaast has few ingredients?  if so that is good for reducing variables.03:05
LjLryouma, i don't know, 4 episodes of bell's palsy out of 2000-ish people seems like a lot to me, if it turned out that's actually related to the vaccine and that ratio is realistic... i don't necessarily mean "a lot" in the sense that it would stop *me* from getting the vaccine. but i'm sure it would stop lots of people from getting the vaccine when they hear about it. temporary or not, it's a pretty serious neurological condition03:07
ryoumayes you do need to follow up on it03:09
ryoumabut i think it03:09
ryouma's seriously problematic to not study the populations i mentioned03:10
ryoumain the us we need to ensure enough takeup so i like the show (opr reality) of following up on the uk cases03:11
LjLryouma, wait, what populations? the ones with known genetic thingies?03:11
ryoumaetc. yes03:13
ryoumathe general population could face a major increase in such diseases in principle so you need to include them in the science03:14
LjLryouma, but... what are "such diseases"? do we have known genetic markers of the possibility of developing M.E.? or even long COVID? (it's pretty new so i'd guess not)03:15
ryoumathere is almost zero science funding, so such tngs are still unknowns03:15
LjLwell then how could they have included them in these trials?03:16
ryoumaclinical criteria03:16
LjLso, people who *already* have M.E.?03:16
ryoumaand long covid03:16
ryoumaor monitor them post-vaccination03:16
LjLwell people who have long COVID have had COVID so they will probably not be vaccinated for quite a while, in the expectation they have immunity for a while03:17
ryoumasome will03:17
ryoumaunknowns there too03:17
LjLi suspect they will not be prioritized03:17
ryoumathey might be hcw etc03:17
ryoumathe point is there are compelling a priori reasons why you include those diseases also03:18
LjLi don't know, populations that are at particular risks are more commonly *excluded*, i think...?03:18
LjLfor instance, pregnant women were excluded03:18
LjLthey were tested for pregnancy before they were allowed to be in the trial03:19
ryoumathere are many who are going to get vaccinated anyway.  that is why i said or monitor03:19
LjL*if* these vaccines provide sterile immunity, then herd immunity may protect people who are at risk for taking a vaccine03:19
LjLif not, then well, i do think we have a problem if not03:19
ryoumaonly after sufficient time to get r eff down and get prevalence down03:20
ryoumain the meantime everybody is deciding whethetr to get vaccinated03:20
LjLwell it won't be up to them for the most part03:20
LjLinitially, few people will be eligible03:20
ryoumain the usa it is03:20
ryoumayes03:20
LjLand eventually, if a significant proportion of vaccinations is not reached, i bet most countries will make it mandatory03:21
LjL(when there are enough vaccines for everyone)03:21
ryoumawhich could be a real problem for populations that are vulnerabl e to worsening from the vaccines that have not had any science done on them03:21
BrainstormUpdates for France: +14417 cases (now 2.3 million) since 20 hours ago — Netherlands: +6458 cases (now 580137), +68 deaths (now 9866) since 20 hours ago03:22
ryoumayou can't continue to make them take existential risks with zero or insufficient scinece all the time like they have been forced to do up until now03:22
ryoumaor impose on them risks htat have high a priori risks03:22
ryoumaand as i said the general population could be in for a surprise that could be mitigated by assessing hte risk and following up on the problems03:24
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): White House Coronavirus Task Force backs restoration of inbound travel from Brazil, UK and Europe, sources say → https://is.gd/2NfTMb03:29
ryoumahey i'll take tongans03:30
LjL:)03:36
BrainstormNew from NPR: DOD Unveils Its Coronavirus Vaccine Distribution Plan: If Pfizer's vaccine wins authorization, about 44,000 doses will be administered to Department of Defense individuals in a first round of shots that will shed light on any distribution issues. → https://is.gd/187tu503:41
DocScrutinizer05>>most countries will make it mandatory<< I don't see that in germany at least. Rather those who refuse vaccination just because, will get no free treatment for anything caused by sars-cov2. Of course this doesn't help with reaching herd immunity03:48
DocScrutinizer05but eventually airlines and whatnot will refuse to transport or serve customers without vaccination, and that will help I bet03:49
LjLuhm, well in italy, i actually see it much more likely that vaccination will become mandatory, and very unlikely that people who get COVID-19 after refusing vaccination would be refused public healthcare, which is a constitutional right which you can't just take away on a whim04:06
DocScrutinizer05sure everybody gets treatment, just they will PAY for it04:11
LjLwhat if they can't pay?04:11
LjLthis is not america... i hope04:11
DocScrutinizer05then they are broke like every other bloke who bought shit they didn't have the money for 04:12
LjLwell, broke people still get healthcare in this country04:12
DocScrutinizer05here too04:12
DocScrutinizer05and THEN they are broke04:13
LjLConstitution of Italy, article 3204:14
LjLThe Republic protects health as a fundamental right of the individual and the interest of the community, and guarantees free medical care to the indigent.04:14
LjLNo one can be obliged to a specific medical treatment except by law. The law cannot under any circumstances violate the limits imposed by respect for the human person.04:14
LjL"free" means free04:14
DocScrutinizer05health insurance may refuse to pay for you if you intentionally provoked your health issue, and they will get back that money from you, eventually04:14
DocScrutinizer05so worst case you're broke for the rest of your life04:15
LjLwe don't have a "health insurance" based system04:15
DocScrutinizer05on the bright side, when you're broke, welfare pays for your health insurance ;-D04:15
LjLi get my healthcare from the state, with a co-payment if i can pay, and without if i can't04:15
LjLprivate health insurances are an option but that's just if you don't like public healthcare and prefer to go private04:16
DocScrutinizer05that's different here04:16
LjLour system is basically modeled on the british NHS04:17
ryoumaexcept for the forcing treatment04:17
DocScrutinizer05here we got legal health insurance and private health insurance, the latter for people who earn so much money they can and may afford private healthcare insurance (no idea what's the rationale behind THAT), but everybody is supposed to have a dedicated non-instituational health insurance04:18
ryoumaobliging in*04:18
ryoumaobliging*04:18
DocScrutinizer05and those are commercial insurance companies who possibly won't accept to pay for idiocy, they HAVE to pay initially but they may charge you back for refunding them04:20
ryoumain the us they won't pay for rationality or idiocy or anything else04:21
DocScrutinizer05US health system is insane, even with obamacare and even more without04:22
LjLmy sister was refused treatment at the normal medical centers in Portugal and instructed to go to the ER (which said she shouldn't have gone there, of course) despite having a perfectly valid EU healthcare card04:23
LjLthat wasn't cool04:24
DocScrutinizer05admittedly it's unlikely german H.I. gets away with refusal to pay corona treatment, even for vaccination opponents. They got to pay for your broken leg from skiing, and whatnot. But definitely it's getting difficult to stop airlines etc to reject customers that can'T show a vacciniation approval04:25
LjLthis was just added as a PR to F-Droid, might be useful for people in the US: https://gitlab.com/librehealth/toolkit/cost-of-care/lh-toolkit-cost-of-care-app04:26
LjLif you started refusing to pay for breaking your leg while skiing, i think that'd be a very slippery slippery slope04:28
LjL(which, incidentally, but as i like to repeat, is not actually a fallacy)04:28
DocScrutinizer05well, we got a number of rather idiotic regulations in our health care system already. Since some 10 years doctors cannot prescribe remedies that are not "only on prescription" dangerous stuff. So you pay yourself for the less dangerous stuff even if it's clearly indicated for your treatment04:31
DocScrutinizer05this lead to very absurd cases, like omeprazol being free in the (of charge) in the 40mg/pill prescription, but the 20mg/pill you got to pay yourself since they are over-the-counter04:33
LjLyes we have similar glitches04:34
DocScrutinizer05now you could say "oh well, so I take half a 40mg pill, it's sufficient" but MEH >>don't break pills, they got a stomac acid resistive coating<<04:35
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: U.S. records more than 3,000 deaths in a single day, a new high (10028 votes) | https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/12/09/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/ | https://redd.it/ka426t04:43
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Typhoid and Covid-19: All you need to know → https://is.gd/LiFTz904:44
DocScrutinizer05same shit (just without the "don't break pill" issue) with Acetylcisteine (ACC)04:44
DocScrutinizer05and don't get me started about the whole "aut idem" idiocy, where you don't get the brand your prescription says but instead the pharmacy has to give you the genericum which got a contract with your health insurance since they pay back]!!!] most to H.I. per sold package. So guess who's paying back most! of course the most expensive brand since you pay a 5 bucks if the package is >20€. So instead of getting the 18€ brand for free, 04:53
DocScrutinizer05I only may get the 24€ brand and pay a 5€ for it04:53
DocScrutinizer05for 18€ the H.I pays full 18€ and the offer by manuf was a 1€ rebate so in the end they pay 17€. For the 24€ H.I pays 19€ (I pay 5€ on top) and they get a 4€ rebate from manuf04:57
LjLhere, a doctor can write on the prescription that you need the specific brandname05:00
DocScrutinizer05yes that's the "aut idem" checkbox which *originally* meant "or similar genericum" and now is the exact opposite meaning05:01
DocScrutinizer05I convinced my doc to check that box, last month, since I finally was so totally fed up with the 5€ rogue tax each time05:02
de-facto%title https://imgur.com/a/2ooRRfZ https://i.imgur.com/zVvXM1l.png source: https://diviexchange.blob.core.windows.net/%24web/DIVI_Intensivregister_Report.pdf05:16
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: COVID-19 Germany: available High Care ICU beds linear extrapolation - Album on Imgur05:16
de-facto%title https://imgur.com/a/NzATSYj https://i.imgur.com/rwj9h8I.png source: https://www.intensivregister.de/#/aktuelle-lage/zeitreihen05:17
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: COVID-19 Germany: ICU Capacity and its daily change - Album on Imgur05:17
DocScrutinizer05>>hey, let's agree on us making 3 bucks more and you pay 2 bucks less, ok? The idiot customer will just pay for it, he has no other option<<05:17
de-factoWe are losing about 60 free High Care ICU beds every single day in Germany right now (they get occupied)05:18
DocScrutinizer05de-facto: sorry for my being rude yesterday05:19
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: China tells cabin crew to wear diapers on risky covid flights → https://is.gd/oNdVNC05:21
de-factook apology accepted.05:21
DocScrutinizer05ta05:21
de-factoWhat worries me about those graphs is that daily new occupied COVID-19 beds was on decline till end of November, now it seems its increasing again05:23
de-facto(second imgur link above)05:23
de-factoyesterday we got almost 590 fatalities in Germany, thats similar to USA (4 times the population)05:23
DocScrutinizer05we also got a record of 590 fatalities today05:24
DocScrutinizer05meh, too slow05:24
de-factoRKI Germany: Weekly Incidence 149.7/100k, Infections +23679 (1242203 total), Fatalities +440 (20372 total)05:25
DocScrutinizer05incidence trend points upward too again05:25
de-factothose are todays numbers05:25
DocScrutinizer05yesterday we had a iirc ~3k higher new cases than a week ago05:26
de-factoRKI Germany: COVID-19 4289 on ICU including 2525 on ventilators 05:26
de-facto%cases Germany05:27
Brainstormde-facto: In Germany, there have been 1.2 million confirmed cases (1.5% of the population) and 20704 deaths (1.7% of cases) as of 5 hours ago. 30.5 million tests were performed (4.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data.05:27
DocScrutinizer05I don't trust Brainstorm anymore, yesterday reported 29k05:27
de-factoit depends on the reporting delay jitter05:28
de-factoWe even have two regions with weekly incidence over 500: LK Regen 589.1/100k and LK Bautzen 530.4/100k 05:29
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +3071 cases (now 597643), +96 deaths (now 17603) since a day ago05:36
DocScrutinizer05((two regions with weekly incidence over 500)) yeah, pink. And we already speculated what will be next color05:37
DocScrutinizer05UV maybe? or military-green?05:38
de-facto%title https://imgur.com/a/m5JVOpr https://i.imgur.com/SygFqbD.png source: https://npgeo-corona-npgeo-de.hub.arcgis.com/datasets/dd4580c810204019a7b8eb3e0b329dd6_005:40
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: COVID-19 Germany: daily new infections by federal state - Album on Imgur05:40
de-factoSo mainly Saxony, Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt are still on the raise 05:40
LjLDocScrutinizer05: the way Brainstorm is set up now, there is no guarantee that its numbers match official numbers. But that doesn't have to mean it's wrong... It's just showing the numbers within the latest 24h window (with some tweaks), while official numbers use a different 24h window05:43
tinwhiskershttps://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-britain-vaccine/uk-warns-people-with-serious-allergies-to-avoid-pfizer-vaccine-after-two-adverse-reactions-idUSKBN28J1D105:48
tinwhiskersryouma: thought this might be relevant to you based on what you said yesterday ^05:49
de-factothanks05:56
de-factoare there any stats available about how often this happened?05:57
DocScrutinizer05well, it's pretty meaningless to me when it reports >>+29072 cases (now 1.2 million) since 16 hours ago<< instead +20,815 05:58
DocScrutinizer05I mean that's over 30%05:58
DocScrutinizer05plus it claims "since 16h"05:59
DocScrutinizer05this may all be completely correct, but it's not useful05:59
DocScrutinizer05it gave me a WTF&panicmode moment, then I decided I rather ignore it06:01
de-facto%title https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-for-covid-1906:05
Brainstormde-facto: From www.gov.uk: Regulatory approval of Pfizer / BioNTech vaccine for COVID-19 - GOV.UK06:05
de-factohttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/941452/Information_for_healthcare_professionals.pdf06:05
de-facto"2. QUALITATIVE AND QUANTITATIVE COMPOSITION: This is a multidose vial and must be diluted before use. 1 vial (0.45 mL) contains 5 doses of 30 micrograms of BNT162b2 RNA (embedded in lipid nanoparticles)."06:08
de-facto"COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 is highly purified single-stranded, 5’-capped messenger RNA (mRNA) produced by cell-free in vitro transcription from the corresponding DNA templates, encoding the viral spike (S) protein of SARS-CoV-2."06:08
de-facto"6.1 List of excipients: ALC-0315 = (4-hydroxybutyl) azanediyl)bis (hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), ALC-0159 = 2-[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, cholesterol, potassium chloride, potassium dihydrogen phosphate, sodium chloride, disodium hydrogen phosphate dihydrate, sucrose, water for injections"06:08
DocScrutinizer05actually from RKI 24h it's +45% to Brainstorm 16h06:09
BrainstormNew from This Week In Virology: TWiV 691: SciArt with Laura Splan: SciArtist Laura Splan joins TWiV to reveal her transdisciplinary work that intersects science, technology, design and culture, then we discuss an inverse correlation between mumps virus antibodies induced by MMR vaccine and COVID-19 severity, and whether ivermectin is indicated for [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/vlSyeI06:10
DocScrutinizer05>>List of excipients<<  hmmmm yummy06:15
de-factohttps://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-for-covid-19/information-for-healthcare-professionals-on-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine#ingredients06:16
de-facto%title06:16
Brainstormde-facto: From www.gov.uk: Information for Healthcare Professionals on Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine - GOV.UK06:16
DocScrutinizer05at least no really nasty stuff in there06:17
de-factoLjL, ^^ maybe something for the link collection?06:17
DocScrutinizer05ooooh I may leave home since 17 minutes \o/06:18
DocScrutinizer05damn curfew, completely pointless06:19
de-factowhat are these for? ALC-0315 = (4-hydroxybutyl) azanediyl)bis (hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), ALC-0159 = 2-[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine06:20
DocScrutinizer05lipids?  https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/12/09/1013538/what-are-the-ingredients-of-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine/06:22
DocScrutinizer05pretty complex fats basically06:22
ryoumatinwhiskers: thanks.  it isn't clear to me what is meant by serious allergy.  my own case has several different types of allergy-like things but it is not clear if they would fall into that category as meant for that drug.06:24
de-facto"The Pfizer vaccine, like one from Moderna, uses lipid nanoparticles to encase the RNA. The nanoparticles are, basically, tiny greasy spheres that protect the mRNA and help it slide inside cells."06:25
de-facto"These particles are probably around 100 nanometers across. Curiously, that’s about the same size as the coronavirus itself."06:25
de-facto"Pfizer says it uses four different lipids in a “defined ratio.” The lipid ALC-0315 is the primary ingredient in the formulation. That’s because it’s ionizable—it can be given a positive charge, and since the RNA has a negative one, they stick together. It's also a component that can cause side-effects or allergic reactions. The other lipids, one of which is the familiar molecule cholesterol, are “helpers” that give structur06:25
de-factoal integrity to the nanoparticles or stop them from clumping. During manufacturing, the RNA and the lipids are stirred into a bubbly mix to form what the FDA describes as a “white to off-white” frozen liquid."06:25
ryoumaare those spheres buckyballs  or are those larger/06:27
ryoumais frozen liquid the name for non-water ice?06:28
DocScrutinizer05((fats, sugar, salt)) that's why I said >>yummy<< ;-)06:28
ryoumacan they put this alc-0315 on the skin and see if there is redness?06:29
DocScrutinizer05possibly with a Pricktest06:30
DocScrutinizer05https://www.healthline.com/health/allergies/skin-prick-test-accuracy06:31
de-factothe other article suspected allergic reactions to ALC-0159, this one mentioned ALC-031506:32
ryoumaif such a test is accurate it could make a big difference for those like myself who are better off not doing so near a medical facility06:32
ryoumaare they referring to anaphylaxis type reactions06:33
de-factofrom the reuters link above06:34
de-facto"“The ingredients like PEG which we think might be responsible for the reactions are not related to things which can cause food allergy. Likewise, people with a known allergy to just one medicine should not be at risk,” Turner told Reuters."06:34
BrainstormNew from EurekAlert!: Immediate detection of airborne viruses with a disposable kit!: The KIST-GIST collaborative research team developed an integrated sampling/monitoring platform that uses a disposable kit to easily collect and detect airborne viruses on-site. The disposable virus sampling/monitoring kit developed by the team is similar to the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/aUw8aK06:34
de-factoi think PEG is ALC-0159 06:34
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: The FDA Weighs Its First Coronavirus Vaccine (80 votes) | https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-fda-weighs-its-first-coronavirus-vaccine | https://redd.it/k9upyu06:38
ryoumai can't run the page in my browser at this time (i have to launch another for which no ram) but would need to find out more to have a clue about what kind of reaction they are talking about and wheter it would be relevant to me.  i would need to know also whether there is any base that could combine with the liquids to form a saponification reaction.06:41
ryoumarather pleasing if you can test viruses in the air.  then you can test mitigation.06:42
ryoumaand hotspots like dentists06:42
ryoumapotential*06:42
de-facto"Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee Meeting December 10, 2020" https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download06:43
de-facto"PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE (BNT162, PF-07302048) VACCINES AND RELATED BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS ADVISORY COMMITTEE BRIEFING DOCUMENT MEETING DATE: 10 December 2020" https://www.fda.gov/media/144246/download06:44
de-factohttps://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/12/Pfizer-first-dose.png06:44
de-facto%title "There were 50 cases of coronavirus in the one-dose treatment group, versus 275 in the placebo group. But look at how those 50 cases came on: What you can see is that the great majority of those 50 cases happened in the first ten to fourteen days or so after the first shot. At that point, the vaccinated group and the controls diverge sharply, and that’s because ten to fourteen days is the time it takes to raise an antibod06:48
de-factoy response after a vaccination."06:48
Brainstormde-facto, the command line provided is invalid 06:48
de-facto%title https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-fda-weighs-its-first-coronavirus-vaccine06:48
Brainstormde-facto: From blogs.sciencemag.org: The FDA Weighs Its First Coronavirus Vaccine | In the Pipeline06:48
de-facto"What, for example, is its effect on transmission of the disease? We should be seeing more on that early next year, but based on these figures, it seems very likely that this vaccination would cut down the transmission rate sharply. But that has to be proven..."06:49
DocScrutinizer05>>Immediate detection of airborne viruses<< sounds extremely useful07:06
BrainstormUpdates for Japan: +2837 cases (now 169429) since 14 hours ago — Ontario, Canada: +1994 cases (now 136599), +34 deaths (now 3861) since a day ago — Mayotte, France: +318 cases (now 5499), +2 deaths (now 51) since 14 days ago — Germany: +25089 cases (now 1.3 million) since 18 hours ago07:07
de-facto%title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_lipid_nanoparticle07:08
Brainstormde-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Solid lipid nanoparticle - Wikipedia07:08
DocScrutinizer05funny enough a friend of mine had that idea several months ago while reading about DNS tests from plain air to check for the animals in vicinity07:09
de-factoDocScrutinizer05, https://sci-hub.se/10.1021/acssensors.0c0153107:13
de-factohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liposome07:14
de-facto%title07:14
Brainstormde-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Liposome - Wikipedia07:14
de-facto%title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNT162b207:18
Brainstormde-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: BNT162b2 - Wikipedia07:18
DocScrutinizer05hoiw the heck does this work to detect a particular virus?07:18
DocScrutinizer05>> A paper-based lateral flow immunochromatographic assay (LFA)<< ummmm07:20
BrainstormUpdates for Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany: +4044 cases (now 174948), +59 deaths (now 3229) since a day ago — Saint Petersburg, Russia: +3761 cases (now 159389), +83 deaths (now 6030) since a day ago — Wales, United Kingdom: +2238 cases (now 94030), +31 deaths (now 2756) since a day ago — Moscow Oblast, Russia: +1372 cases (now 122263), +30 deaths (now 2346) since a day ago07:22
de-factoDocScrutinizer05, maybe like those antigen-quicktests?07:22
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Developing nations are first in line for China's Covid vaccines. Analysts question Beijing’s intent → https://is.gd/Ot1ILb07:23
DocScrutinizer05sounds alike07:23
de-factoto me it almost looks like they put a vacuum cleaner onto an antigen-quicktest to accumulate aerosol onto the testing flow assay07:23
ryoumawant a total guess?  some antibody attadched to paper.  attached antibody fluoresces.  non-attached does not.  or vice-versa.  07:24
DocScrutinizer05^^^ :-D07:24
ryoumaoh that part07:24
ryoumawhy are schools such a big topic?  everybody is like they must stay open.07:25
DocScrutinizer05the poooor pare... err children!1!!1!!07:49
DocScrutinizer05isn't it obvious how they would suffer if they can't meet their friends and instead have to stay at home whole day07:51
DocScrutinizer05to watch their children07:51
the-wesI think the issue is with not being able to work because they have to stay home to watch children07:58
de-facto[m]%title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.30.20241166v108:09
Brainstormde-facto[m]: From www.medrxiv.org: Social network-based strategies for classroom size reduction can help limit outbreaks of SARS-CoV-2 in high schools. A simulation study in classrooms of four European countries | medRxiv08:09
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Feelings: From virtual dating to first meeting at home: How pandemic played cupid for this queer couple → https://is.gd/2E0wuw08:13
BrainstormUpdates for US: +229146 cases (now 15.8 million), +3276 deaths (now 296715) since 23 hours ago08:36
de-facto[m]Wow08:57
de-facto[m].title https://covidtracking.com/data08:59
Brainstormde-facto[m]: From covidtracking.com: Our Data | The COVID Tracking Project08:59
euod[m]1.8M tests today09:00
euod[m]211k cases reported09:00
euod[m]so 11% positive?09:00
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 10, 2020: The WHO pages contain up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. → https://is.gd/2Xpj7E09:03
de-facto[m]Yep https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tests-per-confirmed-case-daily-smoothed?tab=chart&time=earliest..latest09:05
de-facto[m].title https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/2-metrics-7-day-average-curves/09:06
Brainstormde-facto[m]: From covidtracking.com: 2 Metrics 7-Day Average Curves | The COVID Tracking Project09:06
de-facto[m]Daily COVID-19 deaths are 1.58-fold from end of November (2020-11-29 1436 deaths) in only 10 days (2020-12-09 2276 deaths) hence increase by 84 additional new deaths for each additional day09:07
de-facto[m]so if it continues like doubling daily death increase each 17 (=1436/84) days, we could see 2872 (=2*1436) daily new deaths as soon as Dec 16th already (on weekly average)09:08
de-facto[m]USA got to do something about this09:10
BrainstormUpdates for Lithuania: +3327 cases (now 83883), +31 deaths (now 735) since a day ago09:36
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Examining psychiatric consequences of COVID-19: COVID-19 may complicate mental illness and substance abuse, while the related social isolation can trigger adverse psychiatric effects associated with loneliness. → https://is.gd/eLvXGh09:40
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: New polio vaccine against strain that threatens eradication is safe and generates immune response: Phase 2 trials in 1,200 adults, young children, and infants suggest new poliovirus vaccine may have the potential to overcome outbreaks caused by a mutated polio strain linked to the oral vaccine that typically circulates in areas [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/lUN4XD09:52
de-facto[m].title https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/cyberattack-european-medicines-agency10:01
Brainstormde-facto[m]: From www.ema.europa.eu: Cyberattack on the European Medicines Agency | European Medicines Agency10:01
de-facto[m]https://pfe-pfizercom-d8-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/2020-12/Statement_on_EMA_Cyberattack.pdf10:08
de-facto[m]Today, w e  were  informed  by  the  European  Medicines  Agency  (EMA)  that  the  agency  has been subject  to a cyberattack  and  that  some  documents  relating  to  the  regulatory  submission  for  Pfizer  and  BioNTech’s COVID19  vaccine  candidate,  BNT162b2,  which  has been stored  on an  EMA server, had  been  unlawfully accessed.10:13
de-facto[m]It  is important  to  note  that  no  BioNTech  or  Pfizer  systems have  been breached  in connection with this incident and  we  are  unaware  that  any  study  participants  have  been identified  through  the  data being  accessed. At  this time,  we  await further  information  about  EMA’s investigation  and  will respond appropriately  and  in accordance  with  EU law. EMA has assured  us  that  the cyberattac10:14
de-facto[m]will have  no impact  on  the timeline  for its  review.10:14
de-facto[m]Given  the critical public  hea lth  considerations and  the  importance  of  transparency, we  continue  to provide  clarity  around  all aspects  of  the  vaccine  development and  regulatory  processes.  Our focus remains  steadfast  on  working  in close  partnership  with  Governments  and  regulators to  bri ng  our COVID19  vaccine  to  people  around  the  globe  as  safely  and  as  efficiently  as  possible 10:15
de-facto[m]to  help  bring  an end  to  this devastating  pandemic.10:15
de-facto[m]Hmmm10:19
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: More Than 3,100 Dead From COVID-19 In U.S. In Grim Single-Day Record. The United States is on track to surpass 300,000 deaths from the coronavirus by the end of the year. → https://is.gd/2Vc7yV10:29
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Health: Covid-19 surge could lead to another drop in patient visits, doctors fear — and more missed pediatric cancers → https://is.gd/TkE5R810:41
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Indonesia places risky bet on Chinese coronavirus vaccines: Indonesia is betting that China-made coronavirus vaccines can help it tackle one of the worst outbreaks in Asia, but analysts warn it is a wager that could leave them holding a high-interest diplomatic IOU. → https://is.gd/Txq49n10:54
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: New serological assay provides rapid, accurate testing for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies: Researchers at UC Santa Cruz have developed a novel serological assay for the detection of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. → https://is.gd/vLhSpB11:06
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: US will likely issue allergy warning over Pfizer vaccine: official: If the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) decides to approve the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID vaccine, it will probably ask people with a known history of severe allergic reactions to not take it, a top government scientist said Wednesday. → https://is.gd/7GbjQt11:19
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine documents were ‘unlawfully accessed’ in a cyberattack on Europe’s medicines agency → https://is.gd/o69Jma11:31
BrainstormUpdates for Croatia: +4620 cases (now 163992), +53 deaths (now 2420) since a day ago — Malaysia: +2234 cases (now 78499), +3 deaths (now 396) since a day ago — Belarus: +1939 cases (now 154392), +8 deaths (now 1238) since a day ago11:35
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Veterinary medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Equilis Prequenza Te, vaccine against equine influenza and tetanus in horses, Date of authorisation: 08/07/2005, Revision: 10, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/nfe3wu11:44
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Childhood without other children: A generation is raised in quarantine → https://is.gd/yocUeI11:56
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +5041 cases (now 368695), +125 deaths (now 5743) since a day ago — Germany: +546 deaths (now 20762) since 23 hours ago12:07
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: EU leaders to tackle climate, coronavirus, set Brexit aside → https://is.gd/M53nz312:21
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: As virus cases dip, western Switerland reopens restaurants: While most of Switzerland is preparing for tighter lockdown restrictions because of ¿-19, the country's French-speaking regions are going in the other direction—allowing restaurants to reopen on Thursday after a drop in cases from one of the world's highest rates of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/r9dWIr12:58
BrainstormUpdates for US: +227945 cases (now 15.8 million), +3253 deaths (now 296756) since 21 hours ago13:07
BrainstormNew from ECDC: Download the daily number of new reported cases of COVID-19 by country worldwide: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. You may use the data in line with ECDC’s copyright policy. → https://is.gd/zYsz7d13:10
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: When will you be eligible for the Covid vaccine?: The Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine is now being rolled out across the UK, so when might you get it? → https://is.gd/VYjcP813:22
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: 6 things to know before FDA panel votes on Pfizer's Covid vaccine today: A FDA panel is scheduled to vote Thursday on whether to recommend the approval of Pfizer and BioNTech's coronavirus vaccine for emergency use. → https://is.gd/bXFYPy13:35
BrainstormUpdates for Finland: +840 cases (now 29572), +9 deaths (now 442) since 20 hours ago13:53
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Thursday: U.S. stock futures pointed to a lower open, with investors watching the FDA's meeting on Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine and talks in Washington around stimulus. → https://is.gd/807QIN14:01
BrainstormUpdates for Denmark: +2894 cases (now 100489), +14 deaths (now 918) since 22 hours ago14:07
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Oxford/AstraZeneca publish peer-reviewed efficacy results—here's what they tell us and what they don't: The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine this week became the first major COVID vaccine candidate to have efficacy results from phase 3 trials published in a peer-reviewed journal. → https://is.gd/wUOczT14:13
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine documents were ‘unlawfully accessed’ in a cyberattack on Europe’s medicines agency → https://is.gd/o69Jma14:26
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +7180 cases (now 585685), +53 deaths (now 9902) since 13 hours ago — Germany: +557 deaths (now 20816) since 23 hours ago14:35
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Thursday: U.S. stock futures pointed to a lower open, with investors watching the FDA's meeting on Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine and talks in Washington around stimulus. → https://is.gd/807QIN14:38
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: Evidence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA in an Oropharyngeal Swab Specimen, Milan, Italy, Early December 2019 (80 votes) | https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/2/20-4632_article | https://redd.it/kacymn14:41
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Uzbekistan begins phase 3 trials of Chinese vaccine: Uzbekistan on Thursday said large-scale trials of a Chinese-made coronavirus vaccine would begin this week among its population. → https://is.gd/IHG3ev14:51
BrainstormNew from Science-Based Medicine: Deciding between a vaccine and…an infection?: A handy comparison of COVID-19 vaccines compared to COVID-19 infections. The post Deciding between a vaccine and...an infection? first appeared on Science-Based Medicine . → https://is.gd/BICk8E15:04
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Renergen patents helium-cooled cases for coronavirus vaccines → https://is.gd/uu3VPV15:17
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Scientists design a rechargeable N95 mask with a custom fit: In the early days of the pandemic, amidst all the uncertainty, one thing was for sure: N95 masks—the personal protective respiratory devices that filter out viruses, bacteria, and wildfire smoke—were in short supply. So when materials scientists Jeff Urban and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xUWt5D15:30
Haley[m]%cases france15:31
BrainstormHaley[m]: In France, there have been 2.4 million confirmed cases (3.5% of the population) and 56699 deaths (2.4% of cases) as of 8 hours ago. 28.0 million tests were performed (8.4% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data.15:31
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: 6 things to know before FDA panel votes on Pfizer's Covid vaccine today: A FDA panel is scheduled to vote Thursday on whether to recommend the approval of Pfizer and BioNTech's coronavirus vaccine for emergency use. → https://is.gd/bXFYPy15:43
kreyren[m]LjL, is there any channel related to medicine that is active? I tried ##medicine but none ever answers there15:49
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: FDA will scrutinize allergic reactions to Pfizer's Covid vaccine in UK before clearing use in U.S.: The allergic reactions reported by U.K. health-care workers vaccinated against Covid-19 shouldn't be a surprise, some medical experts said on Wednesday. → https://is.gd/TlvFE916:20
BrainstormNew from NPR: Unemployment Claims Jump Just Before Critical Aid Programs Are Set To Expire: Jobless claims rose sharply last week as critical relief programs, including expanded jobless benefits, are due to expire the day after Christmas. → https://is.gd/VUfYee16:33
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Respiratory nurses on COVID-19 front line suffer anxiety and depression: A team of researchers, including staff from the University of Southampton, have found that nurses working with respiratory patients on the COVID-19 front line suffered anxiety and depression during the first wave. → https://is.gd/k0gB1C16:45
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Counseling clients of color affected by COVID-19: An article published in the Journal of Counseling & Development examines how pre-existing racial and ethnic disparities, exacerbated by COVID-19, have negatively affected communities of color that tend to be overrepresented in lower socioeconomic groups, have limited access to [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/kaqMsA16:58
BrainstormUpdates for Albania: +873 cases (now 46061), +14 deaths (now 965) since a day ago — Arizona, US: +4928 cases (now 387529), +73 deaths (now 7154) since 23 hours ago17:07
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Sarilumab Treatment In cytoKinE Storm Caused by Infection With COVID-19 → https://is.gd/2ldVAn17:11
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +16998 cases (now 1.8 million), +887 deaths (now 62626) since a day ago17:21
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +18601 cases (now 1.8 million), +467 deaths (now 63082) since 10 hours ago17:35
JigsyAnd they're back up!17:49
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +6215 cases (now 439155), +102 deaths (now 13051) since 21 hours ago17:53
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: Moderna Announces First Participants Dosed in Phase 2/3 Study of COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate in Adolescents (88 votes) | https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-first-participants-dosed-phase-23-study-covid | https://redd.it/kag9yp18:30
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Pets are helping many Americans get through lockdown: (HealthDay)—There have been some dark days this year for Emily Swope, an empty nester who's been living alone in her Salem, Ore., home during the COVID-19 pandemic while her kids are off at college. → https://is.gd/o3NiRn18:50
BrainstormNew from "Cluster 5" on Wikipedia: Biscuit-in-Chief: /* Lockdown and culling */3 “concern” in one sentence: Lockdown and culling: 3 “concern” in one sentence ← Previous revision Revision as of 17:56, 10 December 2020 Line 23: Line 23: As a preventative measure, Frederiksen announced that the country was already in the process of culling its [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/74bzDF19:02
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +113 deaths (now 5823) since 19 hours ago19:07
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Testing memory over four weeks could predict Alzheimer's disease risk: New research suggests testing people's memory over four weeks could identify who is at higher risk of developing Alzheimer's disease before it has developed. Importantly, the trial found testing people's ability to retain memories for longer time periods [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/dWKxlZ19:14
JigsyI have a shit memory. ;_;;19:22
LjLwelcome to the club19:24
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: FDA authorizes first OTC COVID-19 Home Test Collection Kit: (HealthDay)—The U.S. Food and Drug Administration authorized the first over-the-counter home sample collection kit for COVID-19, the agency announced yesterday. → https://is.gd/P0Q0YU19:27
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: Covid-19: Oxford vaccine could be 59% effective against asymptomatic infections, analysis shows (84 votes) | https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4777 | https://redd.it/kah51l19:31
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Q&A: College students and COVID-19: DEAR MAYO CLINIC: This year has been filled with worry, stress and sadness because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Now we're hearing that we shouldn't be with family and friends for holiday gatherings. I understand that this will reduce community spread of the virus, but our 20-year-old son is [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/yEERwZ19:39
de-facto[m]I never can remember totals due to my bad memory, i barely can remember daily new from previous day or week to compare19:46
de-facto[m].cases Germany19:47
Brainstormde-facto[m]: In Germany, there have been 1.3 million confirmed cases (1.5% of the population) and 20994 deaths (1.7% of cases) as of 14 minutes ago. 30.5 million tests were performed (4.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data.19:47
de-facto[m]So that does not really tell me much about current status (incidence) of new infections or deaths19:49
de-facto[m].incidence Germany19:50
de-facto[m].updates Germany19:50
de-facto[m].changes Germany19:51
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: AI platform finds best combination of available therapies against COVID-19: A team of researchers from the National University of Singapore (NUS) has utilized a ground-breaking artificial intelligence (AI) platform to derive an optimal combination of available therapies against SARS-CoV-2, the cause of COVID-19. Their results [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ZzAvKW19:51
de-facto[m]Same for time series graphs, cumulative graphs dont tell me much about current status19:53
de-facto[m]Hence i always only look at incidence graphs19:53
LjLde-facto[m], i know, but even if i added something that compared "today" with "yesterday" in the bot, you know it's all jittery due to weekends and such. so i think ultimately looking at an actual graph is the only way to get what you want...19:54
LjLor i could make complex calculations in the bot, i guess, but i'd have to rewrite it because its current *cough* "architecture" doesn't really involve keeping lots of past data point in memory and working with them19:55
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: COVID-19 vaccines focus on the spike protein – but here's another target: The latest results from the phase 3 COVID-19 vaccines trials have been very positive. These have shown that vaccinating people with the gene for SARS-CoV-2 spike protein can induce excellent protective immunity. → https://is.gd/U3eE5t20:03
BrainstormUpdates for Spain: +8913 cases (now 1.7 million), +325 deaths (now 47344) since a day ago20:07
de-factoi know, i am just trying to speak the users perspective20:10
de-factomaybe you could include the stats for updates (daily new cases you post in updates)20:11
de-factobtw an update on the "mysterious disease in india"20:11
de-facto%title https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/andhra-pradesh-eluru-mysterious-disease-cause-chemical-pesticides-update-1747655-2020-12-0820:11
Brainstormde-facto: From www.indiatoday.in: Over 450 ill in Andhra due to mysterious disease, chemical found in pesticides suspected to be behind illness - India News20:11
LjLaha, someone did say it might be a chemical issue20:12
euod[m]the data coming about covid also just sucks.20:13
euod[m]there's super obvious bias against reporting on sundays.20:13
de-factomight be interested in those news, hence im highlighting tinwhiskers ^^20:13
euod[m]I realise that in general people tend not to die on weekends, but the effect isn't that strong, it's just reporting. 20:13
euod[m]de-facto: that photo is fascinating 20:13
euod[m]some of the people in it have 3M masks. 20:14
LjLthe ones that i can't get even if i pay gold, right?20:14
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: France to impose virus curfew after lockdown, including New Year's Eve: France will lift a six-week-long nationwide coronavirus lockdown on December 15 but impose a curfew from 8pm, including on New Year's Eve, Prime Minister Jean Castex announced Thursday. → https://is.gd/onfDWm20:16
tinwhiskersde-facto: thanks20:16
de-factobtw i asked in #india about this they pinged me with the update and this link20:17
euod[m]LjL: I can't work out if they're legit or not. just the gathering of a bunch of people for a photo shoot nullifies the masks anyway,.20:18
de-factoeuod[m], there are several effects at play i guess 1) testing scheduled on weekdays rather than weekends 2) test results and reporting also maybe only on office hours (depending on region) 3) jittering in collecting data and publishing it with the time window to accumulate "daily new cases" 20:20
de-factosame for deaths and their reporting20:21
BrainstormUpdates for Turkey: +792801 cases (now 1.7 million) since 3 hours ago20:21
euod[m]de-facto: right. for things like reported deaths, lots of riskier hospital activity doesn't happen at the end of the week or on weekends. c section births are very suppressed on sundays for example when scheduled, so in some countries there's some strange weighting on birth days.20:22
euod[m]people obviously aren't choosing not to die on a sunday, but I'm sure there's actually some bias towards them not for other reasons.20:23
de-factointeresting, did not know that before but makes sense20:23
de-factoyeah20:24
de-factoLjL, tinwhiskers so it seems they do suspect chemical origin of the disease cases but did not confirm their suspicion yet20:26
de-facto..."On the role of organochlorine in being the disease-triggering agent, an official told PTI, “Mostly yes, but we are waiting for the laboratory report (for confirmation).""...20:26
tinwhiskersah. ok.20:26
de-facto"As per a report presented by West Godavari district Collector R Mutyalaraju, the precise cause of the disease could not be established yet as blood tests and CT (brain) scans showed everything as normal."20:27
tinwhiskersI wish they'd say illness instead of disease.20:28
de-factobut if chemicals are their (honest?) suspicion too, they probably have not found hints of it being an infection or it being contagious or such20:28
euod[m]being india I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that people are using exotic herbicides. 20:28
tinwhiskersyeah, and at much higher than recommanded application rates, because more = better.20:29
euod[m]there's lots of herbicides and other farm chemicals that are commonly used in many countries, but haven't in the western world because they were banned in the 80s or whenever.20:29
tinwhiskersyeah20:30
de-factothats why i suspected organophosphates, they could have been sprayed to kill insects hence not show up in the water directly or such20:30
tinwhiskersbut even those don't tend to be that toxic in the short term unless over-applied.20:30
de-factoi guess we just have to wait for their lab results to be published20:30
tinwhiskersthey were banned because of long-term effects mostly.20:30
LjL<Brainstorm> Updates for Turkey: +792801 cases (now 1.7 million) since 3 hours ago ← excuuuuse me?!20:31
euod[m]yeah. that's all to say that things like blood tests are very specific, there's none which will give you a clean bill of health. if you tried the subject would be devoid of blood entirely.20:32
de-factoorganophosphates are potentially astronomically poisonous 20:32
euod[m]well that's the game right. kill just the right thing and hopefully not humans.20:32
de-facto%title https://www.indiatoday.in/cities/hyderabad/story/lead-nickel-found-in-samples-collected-from-eluru-says-aiims-report-over-120-still-in-hospital-1747840-2020-12-0820:36
Brainstormde-facto: From www.indiatoday.in: Lead, nickel found in samples collected from Eluru, says AIIMS report; over 120 still in hospital - Cities News20:36
de-facto"Lab samples have revealed the presence of lead and nickel in drinking water and milk as the root cause of the mysterious illness that has swept Eluru in Andhra Pradesh's West Godavari district."20:37
de-factohmmm can lead and nickel really cause that?20:37
de-factooh the folks at wikipedia already are ontop of this20:39
de-facto%title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eluru_outbreak20:39
Brainstormde-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Eluru outbreak - Wikipedia20:39
de-factothats a better source for info i guess20:39
de-factoalso seems like active cases are on decline as recoveries are in increase20:40
de-facto"On 7 December 2020, Indian health authorities unofficially declared: "Mostly yes, but we are waiting for the laboratory report [for confirmation]" when asked about organochlorine being the disease-triggering agent.[21] This theory was later ruled out by authorities because there would have been a higher rate of respiratory issues and fatalities"20:42
de-facto"Later preliminary results pointed to high lead and nickel content in drinking water and milk as possible agents via lead poisoning.[23] Blood tests also found high concentrations of the same materials in patients.[5] State authorities later ruled out air and water as the medium for heavy metals and started testing vegetable and fruit samples.[22] It has also been speculated that pesticides may have leeched into the water supply after 20:42
de-factoflash floods.[24]"20:42
de-factohmm what a mess of speculations20:42
de-factobut yeah i guess it is not spreading anymore hence i am not as alarmed as i was when reading about it first time20:43
de-factoso not resolved yet but also not really exploding case numbers or such20:46
de-factohence worth to keep an eye upon for further updates20:46
de-factoid guess the wikipedia article is a good source of info since its got a revision history20:47
LjLUhm both of the offloop sources put Turkey at 174856720:49
LjLthat's crazy though, it was 925342 yesterday20:49
de-factothey swiched reporting from only symptomatic positives to also include asymptomatic positives but that was many days ago already20:50
LjLuhm20:50
LjLmaybe they announced it a few days ago but it's only actually happening now?20:50
de-facto%title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Turkey#Statistics20:51
Brainstormde-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: COVID-19 pandemic in Turkey - Wikipedia20:51
LjLor maybe it was published in a different places and offloop's sources only switched now20:51
de-factoso since 25th of Nov they also include asymptomatic positive tested 20:51
de-factoat least according to that table in wikipedia there20:52
LjLde-facto, but look at the graph just under here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Turkey#Timeline20:53
LjLmy bot isn't making the jump up20:53
de-facto%title https://covid19.saglik.gov.tr/20:54
Brainstormde-facto: From covid19.saglik.gov.tr: Covid1920:54
BrainstormNew from In The Pipeline: The Latest on Coronavirus Mutations: For people looking for an accessible writeup on the coronavirus mutational landscape, I can recommend this Reuters article that came out today. It has a lot of good information in it, and a lot of very well-made graphics to show what’s going on. Past blog posts on this subject are here, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8mVEQc20:54
LjLthat also has 1.748.56720:55
LjLso i guess soon enough some news agency will tell us why20:55
LjLhopefully20:55
LjLde-facto, ah, https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-turkey-cases-idUSI7N2HZ01L20:56
de-facto"On 10 December, the government announced the total number of cases seen in the country for the first time, causing a massive jump in the number of cases. However only 30,424 cases were actually reported that day."20:56
LjLmy understanding of the above is that they started including *new* asymptomatic cases on 25 November, but now they are also reporting the *backlog* of cases20:56
de-factoright in the figure caption of the graph you just mentioned :)20:56
LjLalright20:56
de-factoyep exactly20:57
de-factothey got quite high numbers20:58
de-factonow i understand why our government did not trust their numbers before20:58
de-factoe.g. they always were on the list of high risk countries even with quite low official cases20:58
de-factonow it makes all sense20:58
de-facto%tr <de Die Einstufung als Risikogebiet erfolgt nach gemeinsamer Analyse und Entscheidung durch das Bundesministerium für Gesundheit, das Auswärtige Amt und das Bundesministerium des Innern, für Bau und Heimat.20:59
Brainstormde-facto, German to English: The classification as a risk area is based on a joint analysis and decision by the Federal Ministry of Health, the Foreign Office and the Federal Ministry of the Interior, Building and Home (MyMemory) [... want %more?]20:59
de-factoso daily ~32k new infections and ~200 fatalities for a country with 82M citizens21:02
de-factothats quite a lot, hopefully they can regain control somehow21:02
de-factoat least finally they may do proper reporting so thats good21:03
de-facto%title https://covid19.saglik.gov.tr/EN-69532/general-coronavirus-table.html21:05
Brainstormde-facto: From covid19.saglik.gov.tr: General Coronavirus Table21:05
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Walmart prepares to administer Covid vaccines at stores across the U.S.: Walmart is getting ready to administer Covid vaccinations across the country once a vaccine is approved, the company's chief medical officer said Thursday. → https://is.gd/q2eaPb21:07
de-facto%title https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/10/the-latest-on-coronavirus-mutations21:07
Brainstormde-facto: From blogs.sciencemag.org: The Latest on Coronavirus Mutations | In the Pipeline21:07
de-factoidk what Derek Lowe linked in his article but i think he might have meant to link this here21:11
de-facto%title https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/EVOLUTION/yxmpjqkdzvr/21:11
Brainstormde-facto: From graphics.reuters.com: How the novel coronavirus has evolved21:11
de-factothats really neat worth a look for everyone interested in understanding the evolution of mutations on SARS-CoV-221:13
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +7504 cases (now 586009) since 20 hours ago21:21
de-factoI wonder how that will change once there is significant immunity in the population from vaccinations and how that will select onto the bruteforce of unsuccessful background mutations to make visible only those mutations that may have no disadvantage due to their new nature21:25
de-factoexample: right now a mutation that makes the docking of the spike protein less efficient may mean a disadvantage for the virus, hence might die out, but if all normal strains cant replicate maybe such a (less optimal) mutation of the s-protein still could replicate in vaccinated hosts?21:27
de-factolike an escape mutation replicating in immune that normally would be less optimal than prevalent strain in naive population21:28
de-facto(thats speculation of course, yet im curious about what that means)21:28
de-factooh wow Derek Lowe has exactly the same suspicion that i did mention already several times21:32
de-factowe might only have a limited time window to bring this down with vaccinations before some escape mutation was able to bruteforce the immunity from vaccinations21:33
LjLWhich one? I saw he isn't thrilled about the AZ results, and surprisingly now r/covid19 is mostly all with him on that, even though they banned me earlier for being like that on that21:34
de-facto"The good news continues to be that none of the mutations studied so far in the general population seem to be able to evade the antibodies raised by the current vaccines. That doesn’t mean that it can’t happen – and as we start putting selection pressure on the virus by vaccinating people we’ll have to keep a close eye out for anything like that developing. But then we have to consider transmission."21:34
LjLAh21:34
de-facto"If an antibody-evading form of the virus also becomes harder to catch, well, it’s going to be less of a worry. But if we were to start doing a better job at not spreading the virus in general, that would be sort of nice, because that would reduce the chance that any nasty mutated forms get any kind of traction in general. If some sort of supervirus mutation occurs in a single patient who doesn’t then get close enough to other peo21:34
de-factople for it to spread, then it’s a tree falling in a forest that doesn’t make much of a sound."21:34
de-facto"It’s all a race between several different factors. But here in the US we have so many people infected (and so much transmission going on) that frankly we’re making ourselves vulnerable to any more dangerous mutations that might crop up. In fact, if something like that were to emerge, the odds are better that it would do so here, from what I can see. We’re giving the virus every opportunity to reproduce and for the subsequent 21:35
de-factoviral variations to then go out and try their luck infecting lots of other people."21:35
de-facto"Vaccinating enough people quickly enough would interrupt these processes, and so would doing the sorts of public health measures that we’ve all been hearing about for months. But the first is going to depend on vaccine supplies, logistics, and public acceptance, and the second, well, look around you, si monumentum requiris."21:35
de-factoexactly my line of arguments 21:35
de-factonice that at least some of my speculations are not as far off as others might be21:35
LjLI think once the vaccine is significantly deployed, there'll be no way to stop people from dropping protection measures. They're tired and they've been told countless times that a vaccine will be the only way to end this21:36
de-factobut we cant afford to have it prevalent once we started with vaccinations21:36
de-factowe need to bring this down quickly with vaccination of as many people as possible in as short time as possible21:37
de-factootherwise we invite that brute-forcing the vaccinated immunity may succeed in finding an escape mutation21:37
de-factolike produce as much vaccines as possible, store them and then release them all at once, worldwide21:38
de-factohit SARS-CoV-2 with a huge hammer at the same time globally21:38
menWhat mechanisms are there to ensure enough vaccinators actually follow this to matter; we've seen the variety of response to the original virus, why (and how) would they all coordinate to fix logistics in ways that minimize the chances of those mutations happening?21:40
de-factowhy? well to minimize the chances of the worst case scenario described above. how? thats actually a very good question21:41
menThe why might be enough for me, but I don't think it's the same for the whole world, so maybe it's not just the how that's missing.21:43
LjLI don't think any place in the world is planning to vaccinate everyone together quickly21:50
LjLRather the opposite, they will grab the first doses and give them to the healthcare responders, etc21:50
LjLI understand your concern but I don't think there's a chance "instant total vaccination" will happen21:51
euod[m]well think about it just from the perspective of limits.21:58
euod[m]we set a flag day and try to vaccinate the entire united states. we suddenly need 700 million syringes, 700 million needles, far in excess of a billion rubber gloves.21:59
BrainstormUpdates for Syria: +112 cases (now 8787), +11 deaths (now 476) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +5261 cases (now 439780), +114 deaths (now 13068) since 22 hours ago22:07
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Ellen DeGeneres tests positive for COVID-19 (10502 votes) | https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-covid-ellen-degeneres-20201210-ghqdjfsnkfaxdg7lvglk5li7we-story.html | https://redd.it/kajdci22:08
BrainstormNew from PLOS ONE: Vaccines safety and maternal knowledge for enhanced maternal immunization acceptability in rural Uganda: A qualitative study approach: by Dan Kajungu, Michael Muhoozi, James Stark, Daniel Weibel, Miriam C. J. M. Sturkenboom Background Maternal immunization is a successful and cost-effective public health strategy. It protects [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xiNK4622:08
de-factoeuod[m], yeah but those can be bought from supply chain and stored in advance22:18
de-factosame for vaccines in cold storage, only 2*30µg mRNA are needed for each citizen 22:19
euod[m]sure, it's still all just non trivial to an extreme though22:20
de-factoso why not load the gun until its got full magazine and only fire when there is a good chance to really hit it with everything we got at once22:20
de-factoyeah its not trivial, especially since it would have to be coordinated globally22:21
de-factoand since it probably more likely will be a competition race for aquiring the doses as soon as they get produces22:21
BrainstormNew from PLOS ONE: Self-efficacy and fatigue among non-frontline health care workers during COVID-19 outbreak: A moderated mediation model of posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms and negative coping: by Tianya Hou, Ruike Zhang, Xiangrui Song, Fan Zhang, Wenpeng Cai, Ying Liu, Wei Dong, Guanghui Deng Purposes Since a considerable number of health care [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/YmNFlH22:21
de-facto*produced22:21
de-factoas can be seen right now with UK already starting22:22
euod[m]a box of 100 nitrile gloves (50 pairs) weighs 600 grams. so enough gloves to just cover immunizing the US population is some 600 kilotons. 22:22
de-factohmm well do they really have to use that many gloves?22:23
euod[m]I ballparked at one pair of gloves per stab, plus losses.22:23
euod[m]640 million doses given for the US population. 22:23
de-factoyeah but in short time22:24
euod[m] * 660 million doses given for the US population. 22:24
de-factobut its possible if they just schedule it correctly22:24
euod[m]I only commented about finding upper bounds of capacity, and that's obviously one.22:25
de-factolike scale exponentially with branching off smaller centers with daily delivery from cold storage vaccination storage sites etc22:25
de-factoyeah i get it, scaling is a huge challenge22:26
de-factobut everything can be stored22:26
de-factoand everything would have to be used anyhow over time22:26
de-factoso its more about logistics22:26
euod[m]doing anything at scale is just annoying. things tend to take much longer than you'd ever intend, and creates a lot more waste than you would ever think.22:26
de-factoit may even be *more* resource friendly to condense the effort in time22:26
de-factomaybe the vaccine manufacturers are supplying small number of doses right now so countries could test them out and also gain experience with their implementations22:28
de-factothen hopefully 2021 they could scale up their productions to GIGANTIC amounts and deliver billions of doses in very short time22:28
de-factoat least some concepts such as mRNA only require minuscule amounts of active substance per vaccination22:29
de-factonot sure how their production scales, hopefully they will stock up enough raw materials to really scale it up once they optimized their concept22:30
BrainstormNew from PLOS ONE: Reduction of free polysaccharide contamination in the production of a 15-valent pneumococcal conjugate vaccine: by Yoon Hee Whang, Soo Kyung Kim, Hyeseon Yoon, Seuk Keun Choi, Yeong Ok Baik, Chankyu Lee, Inhwan Lee Glycoconjugate vaccines are vaccines in which a bacterial polysaccharide antigen is conjugated to a carrier protein to [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/3laIqo22:34
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Coronavirus vaccines will get GPS tracking and flight priority, UPS, FedEx say: FedEx and UPS outlined for lawmakers how they plan to prioritize and protect shipments of coronavirus vaccines when regulators sign off on the first ones. → https://is.gd/UesWR823:23
JigsyMy Dad says he's not elligible for the vaccine.23:29
de-factowhy?23:47
BrainstormUpdates for Nigeria: +675 cases (now 71344), +6 deaths (now 1190) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +114 deaths (now 5824) since 23 hours ago23:52

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