| Haley[m] | %cases world | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | Haley[m]: Sorry, world not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 00:03 |
| Haley[m] | !cases world | 00:03 |
| CovBot | In World there have been a total of 82,011,824 cases as of 2020-12-28 22:49:00 UTC. Of these 23,035,596 (28.1%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 57,189,113 (69.7%) have definitely recovered and 1,787,115 (2.2%) have died. | 00:03 |
| de-facto | wishful thinking Brainstorm ... wishful thinking. | 00:14 |
| de-facto | %cases | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: Sorry, not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: House Endorses Trump-Backed $2,000 Payments Amid Feud Within GOP: Democrats sought to make a point about their desire to provide more money for Americans than congressional Republicans — picking up an attack line from none other than President Trump. → https://is.gd/yl7TC4 | 00:21 |
| LjL | de-facto, oh, i see, i'm afraid "world" was calculated by tinwhiskers' data and so it's gone | 00:34 |
| LjL | but i may have some older backup code for it i could get back into it, no promises | 00:34 |
| de-facto | %cases Germany | 00:37 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: In Germany, there have been 1.7 million confirmed cases (2.0% of the population) and 31176 deaths (1.9% of cases) as of an hour ago. 33.7 million tests were performed (5.0% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.8% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 00:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Alberta, Canada: +3700 cases (now 97481) since 4 days ago | 00:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China jails citizen for Wuhan reports → https://is.gd/R69lAu | 01:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +4728 cases (now 556748), +137 deaths (now 15100) since 22 hours ago — France: +3685 cases (now 2.6 million) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +5994 cases (now 772211), +29 deaths (now 11066) since 22 hours ago | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Parents warned of 'sharp rise' in eating disorders: Child health leaders say the increase is partly down to the pandemic's impact on young people. → https://is.gd/oQOp5U | 02:00 |
| LjL | did anybody warn my parents | 02:04 |
| LjL | he said with a half-full mouth | 02:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +152 deaths (now 7362) since 22 hours ago | 02:06 |
| LjL | ubLIX[m], oh lord, https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/wiki/End-user-FAQ#why-i-dont-get-messages-from-unregistered-to-irc-irc-users surely "the best way to prevent this from happening again" is... optimizing the server so it doesn't crash just because it gets 2000 PMs? 2000 is something EVEN freenode could put up with! | 02:08 |
| ubLIX[m] | oof | 02:16 |
| euod[m] | LjL: matrix has a surprising amount of jank for something so new. | 02:32 |
| LjL | %w jank | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, jank — noun: 1. (computing, slang, rare) Perceptible pause in the smooth rendering of a software application's user interface due to slow operations or poor interface design — adjective: 1. (computing, slang, rare) janky (Can we add an example for this sense?) → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jank | 02:36 |
| LjL | euod[m], are you using Element by the way? do you happen to know where the heck i find the "integrations" page in the current version (IRC bridge and so on)? i am probably blind | 02:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Dividends still went out even after soldiers marched into long-term care homes | Sienna Senior living needed military support in 2 of its overwhelmed long-term care homes where COVID-19 was surging, but even though soldiers were marching in, the company still paid out $45 million to its shareholders → https://is.gd/lXh3l4 | 02:39 |
| euod[m] | LjL: I've no idea, the interface is not great. | 02:40 |
| LjL | nope | 02:41 |
| LjL | and it changes in subtle ways between versions | 02:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Rio de Janeiro authorities announced Monday they will block beach access the night of December 31 to prevent crowds in one of Brazil's worst-hit cities by the coronavirus pandemic → https://is.gd/DUmJ02 | 02:52 |
| LjL | <Nokaji> 27th Dec, 2020 - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13584329/377-covid-deaths-under-60-underlying-health-conditions/ - Only 388 people under 60 without underlying health conditions have died of coronavirus in hospitals across England, NHS Data shows | 03:28 |
| LjL | that fellow isn't here (i probably banned them a while ago), but | 03:29 |
| LjL | if you are so inclined, give me facts and reasons to shower them with about how that's a flawed number, because i'm pretty sure it is, but i don't have it in me anymore to debate this stuff | 03:29 |
| Jigsy | So is the UK variant being called differently overseas? | 03:29 |
| Jigsy | Or is the African(?) varient different from the UK variant? | 03:29 |
| Jigsy | At least I think it was Africa. | 03:30 |
| LjL | Jigsy, you mean technically, or mediatically? media here just call it "the UK variant" or variations thereof | 03:30 |
| LjL | or sometimes just "the new variant" perhaps | 03:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Coronavirus: Spain to keep registry of those who refuse Covid vaccine → https://is.gd/kV48lx | 03:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid-19: Military to support mass testing of students in England: Members of the armed forces will help organise Covid-19 testing for thousands of students next month. → https://is.gd/bIGueM | 03:55 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Saint Lucia: +26 cases (now 331) since 5 days ago | 04:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Study says Britain must vaccinate two million a week to prevent a third COVID-19 wave → https://is.gd/xle5Qe | 04:58 |
| LjL | that seems like a tall order | 05:16 |
| LjL | but indeed if the "UK" variant spreads as quickly as the graphs would suggest, we may not be able to get very many people immune before the virus does that for us :( | 05:17 |
| oerheks | ban on airtravel would help.. | 05:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for New Zealand: +7 cases (now 2151) since a day ago | 05:24 |
| LjL | i believe most EU countries have banned air travel with the UK | 05:24 |
| LjL | but i don't really see how it would help | 05:24 |
| LjL | this variant is with all certainty already in all EU countries, and beyond | 05:25 |
| LjL | maybe it would have helped before the variant even arose | 05:25 |
| oerheks | India, reported 6 cases | 05:25 |
| oerheks | well, South Africa is the other bridge.. | 05:25 |
| LjL | Italy, France, Germany reported cases | 05:26 |
| LjL | Canada reported cases that are from community transmission | 05:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add Sanofi press release about their vaccine being delayed → https://is.gd/HppcqH | 06:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: wait till they test ancient sewage samples, we'll learn taht "new variant" been around since half a year already, maybe | 06:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US House approves $2,000 coronavirus aid checks sought by Trump → https://is.gd/uUA7LA | 06:25 |
| pigughs | new variant is already in japan and elsewhere | 06:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +857 cases (now 639734), +34 deaths (now 19234) since a day ago | 06:45 |
| oerheks | UK tested 2/3 of the population, Belgium more than half, NL just 1/3 .. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ .. Denmark twice the population,, | 06:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Russia admits COVID death toll third-worst in the world → https://is.gd/UDNLKd | 06:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: First U.S. Troops Vaccinated in South Korea as Country Reports Record Coronavirus Deaths → https://is.gd/u8OlZn | 07:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: How are vaccines developed, packaged and shipped? Find out here → https://is.gd/dZpWEe | 07:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Small number of COVID patients develop severe psychotic symptoms → https://is.gd/ackpv5 | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Small number??? to me it seems like 95% of population already did | 08:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Military to support mass testing of students in England → https://is.gd/bIGueM | 08:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Connecticut, United States: +8457 cases (now 181200), +113 deaths (now 5904) since 4 days ago — Kansas, United States: +6055 cases (now 219044), +41 deaths (now 2544) since 4 days ago — Rhode Island, United States: +3536 cases (now 85602), +38 deaths (now 1742) since 5 days ago — Ontario, Canada: +3159 cases (now 176814), +82 deaths (now 4424) since a day ago | 08:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: China kicks off emergency Covid-19 vaccination in Wuhan → https://is.gd/XuNocE | 08:29 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Not wearing a mask is now a criminal offence in South Africa (10064 votes) | https://mybroadband.co.za/news/trending/381212-not-wearing-a-mask-is-now-a-criminal-offence-in-south-africa.html | https://redd.it/km0k0b | 08:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Post-COVID syndrome: How to deal with lingering symptoms → https://is.gd/F8PY5C | 08:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 29, 2020: The WHO pages contain up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. → https://is.gd/leTEix | 09:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: For Covid-19 vaccines, some are too rich — and too poor → https://is.gd/J0LW2o | 09:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: ‘I will be more aware’: Anwar Hadid reacts to critical comments after vaccine statement → https://is.gd/7gWVqK | 09:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid-19: Military to support mass testing of students in England: They will offer remote support, but teaching unions say there is still not enough time to get tests up and running. → https://is.gd/bIGueM | 10:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from "Cluster 5" on Wikipedia: Yadsalohcin: /* See also */ Update wikilink to 'Variants of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2' to avoid redirect: See also: Update wikilink to 'Variants of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2' to avoid redirect ← Previous revision Revision as of 09:37, 29 December 2020 Line 39: Line 39: [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/74bzDF | 10:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: We stress tested banks in 2009. We need to do the same thing now for U.S. hospital systems: We need a thorough understanding of the U.S. hospital system's pressure points before the next pandemic hits. Let's not waste time in preparing for it. → https://is.gd/dPhJGH | 10:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh gosh, thorough understanding of the problems at hand, right? | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>In a similar fashion, we need to stress test the U.S. hospital system to guarantee it can survive ongoing waves of coronavirus outbreaks and future pandemics.<< souns like an idiot talking | 11:01 |
| de-facto | RKI COVID-19 Germany 2020-12-29 (between the years rep.): Weekly Incidence 149.2/100k, Infections 12892 (1664726 total), Fatalities +852 (30978 total), COVID@ICU 5617 (incl 3055 on ventilator) | 11:03 |
| de-facto | Germany got the most deaths in Europe and worldwide only USA got more deaths than Germany. Bravo. Well down. | 11:05 |
| oerheks | oh? | 11:07 |
| de-facto | in absolute terms | 11:08 |
| oerheks | Italy 72k - Uk 71k, France 63k, Spain 50k | 11:08 |
| de-facto | daily new fatalities | 11:08 |
| de-facto | not accumulated | 11:09 |
| oerheks | oh oke | 11:09 |
| de-facto | and the occupied ICU beds are still on steep rise | 11:10 |
| de-facto | https://www.intensivregister.de/#/aktuelle-lage/zeitreihen | 11:10 |
| genera | thats what the government already saif in october or something. yes wefail but look over there! | 11:11 |
| de-facto | absolutely unacceptable management | 11:12 |
| de-facto | and now we dont even have enough vaccination doses to protect the very highest risk group until summer | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please! could you discuss this a little bit more differentiated? I consider that last statement unacceptable | 11:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | negativism and bashing doesn't help anybody except the one bashing | 11:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at very least be specific about the particular details where a decision been wrong. Ideally provide supposedly better alternative | 11:21 |
| de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/oljgQnG https://i.imgur.com/ITvq5qa.png source: https://www.intensivregister.de/#/aktuelle-lage/zeitreihen | 11:23 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID-19 Germany: Occupied ICU beds and their daily change - Album on Imgur | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think it's not even a week since we established vaccination of "very highest risk group" will take >>[26 Dec 2020 11:50:22] <DocScrutinizer05> 1.4M double-doses per month, seems like we're done early in 2021-05<< the latest | 11:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Emma Hodcroft: @firefoxx66: R to @firefoxx66: While more sequencing is great, you can see how switching to preferentially sequencing N501 samples will distort our ability to track other variants, both current & emerging.Long-term, we need coordinated & regular sequencing of many samples to track #SARSCoV2 variants!8/8 → https://is.gd/SPqjLp | 11:24 |
| de-facto | still it seems per day ~75 more ICU beds are being occupied by COVID-19 in Germany | 11:26 |
| de-facto | about the vaccinations: given the incidence curve of 2020 came down at ~end April and assuming we can achieve the same in 2021 every vaccination to protect the very highest risk group not done before that is too late imho | 11:29 |
| de-facto | and the protection only begins like 12 days after first dose, actually full protection only is achieved one week after the second dose, e.g. 21 + 7 = 28 days after primer dose | 11:30 |
| de-facto | if daily fatalities in the winter/spring peak should be prevented we would need to have 16M doses right now | 11:32 |
| de-facto | but EU did the contracts too late (in comparison to the other contracts), and only about too few doses (in comparison to other countries) | 11:33 |
| de-facto | i mean look at this graph here: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations | 11:34 |
| oerheks | all eu countries ordered for themselves.. | 11:34 |
| oerheks | only Canada i know off, ordered more than their population | 11:34 |
| de-facto | Israel already achieved 5.7% vaccination in its population | 11:34 |
| de-facto | nope EU countries ordered together, only UK did not participate in that | 11:35 |
| de-facto | well and Hungary afaik | 11:35 |
| de-facto | We need MUCH more vaccinations, MUCH faster | 11:35 |
| de-facto | why not build additional production capacities and license production from the companies that invented the vaccines? | 11:36 |
| de-facto | like wartime effort priority? | 11:36 |
| oerheks | some will produce 1B vaccines in 2021.. | 11:36 |
| oerheks | so, i think i will get it in 2022 | 11:36 |
| oerheks | btw, all countries in EU started right away, only NL starts jan8 .. and my town jan 18... | 11:37 |
| Arsanerit | why does NL start later? | 11:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>we would need to have 16M doses right now<< so what? do you stash those in your attik? then please release them finally | 11:38 |
| oerheks | logistics, personell, all sorts of misty reasons | 11:38 |
| Arsanerit | how long would it take a non-pharmaceutical company to start producing an mRNA vaccine, even if they were licensed? | 11:39 |
| Arsanerit | oerheks: sounds like bad planning | 11:39 |
| Arsanerit | Israel has apparently gotten more vaccines by outbidding other nations, that's not a sustainable approach if other countries do the same. | 11:39 |
| de-facto | each day under impact of the pandemic costs the countries billions of economic loss, investing that into a super fast high priority vaccination campaign could prevent that as fast as possible | 11:39 |
| Arsanerit | In some EU countries the majority doesn't even want to be vaccinated. | 11:40 |
| de-facto | Israel got a much smaller population to be fair | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>why not build additional production capacities and license production from the companies that invented the vaccines?<< already happening, please keep up to date | 11:40 |
| de-facto | but still they managed to acquire enough to go ahead with vaccinations | 11:40 |
| Arsanerit | can't produce 10 billion vaccines overnight | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | licensing isn't the issue, the method is in the open, and the problem is to actually establish a working and certified process, no matter who owns "the license" | 11:42 |
| de-facto | DocScrutinizer05, link? i only know of this here: https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-acquire-gmp-manufacturing-site-expand-covid-19-vaccine | 11:42 |
| de-facto | yet thats still not enough, not by far | 11:43 |
| Arsanerit | What would licensing uninvolved companies to produce vaccines in a rush do to public trust? | 11:43 |
| Arsanerit | Would the licensee-produced vaccines be as good as the pfizer/biontech-produced vaccines? | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's definitely not like other companies are standing in a queue to get permission to start BNT162b2 production tomorrow and bioNTech isn't willing to license the process to others | 11:43 |
| de-facto | why not if quality assurance was as strict as for them? | 11:43 |
| Arsanerit | because they don't have the same know-how | 11:44 |
| de-facto | well thats why i meant, why isnt there a queue for licensing additional production capacity? | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just for example: a bottleneck are the mere glass vials | 11:44 |
| de-facto | whats taking them so long? if there are problems with the supply chain then they need to be addressed now | 11:45 |
| de-facto | why not make it a combined effort of all of economy? like wartime effort? | 11:45 |
| Arsanerit | I suppose they're working on it. | 11:45 |
| Arsanerit | It's probably harder to make vaccines than bombs. | 11:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you think nobody noticed and took care before you realized that? | 11:45 |
| de-facto | yes, obviously since we wont have enough doses until next winter to achieve something that even comes close to herd immunity | 11:46 |
| de-facto | and yes they know about that, because its obvious | 11:46 |
| Arsanerit | I don't see any way in which I could personanlly help vaccine production. | 11:46 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: why is that obvious? | 11:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, so you're europe's smartest guy. kudos | 11:47 |
| de-facto | i did not say that | 11:47 |
| Arsanerit | there are so far already five vaccines that have been approved by various regulatory agencies, that number may increase | 11:47 |
| de-facto | its obvious because 1) the number to achieve herd immunity is easily to calculate, hence they know that 2) production capacity is estimated by the companies and published in their press releases, hence they can calculate how many doses are available and when | 11:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: Antibodies and SARS-CoV-2 infections: Tthe more the better → https://is.gd/8lEXBu | 11:48 |
| Arsanerit | do you mean herd imminutiy worldwide? | 11:49 |
| Arsanerit | I suspect they're doing what they can. | 11:49 |
| de-facto | hence 3) they know production and supply is too slow to achieve something that comes close to herd immunity before summer or such, so hopefully we might achieve that for next winter | 11:49 |
| de-facto | so why dont they 4) acquire every resource available (and beyond) to ramp up production capacity? | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're aware that 8 weeks ago we didn't know for sure if we will *ever* have *one* working vaccine for sars-cov2? Not to think about *who* will achieve that and *when* | 11:51 |
| Arsanerit | production and supply may be enough to vaccinate at-risk groups before NH summer, such that the next waves are unlikely to overload the hospitals? | 11:52 |
| de-facto | well even 8 weeks ago it was pretty clear that vaccine candidates seemed to look very promising and that we probably would need production capacity ready once it was approved for usage | 11:52 |
| de-facto | they did prepare for vaccination centers, but not for enough production capacity | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why accquire anything? what's the benefit? everybody feeling like "well, maybe we can produce this thing (be it vials or vaccine or engines for filling or whatever) too" will already jump in full power ahead to join the big business | 11:53 |
| de-facto | anyhow it does not help to criticize the past, we need to make the best out of where we stand now | 11:53 |
| Arsanerit | afaik they're enhancing production capacity already | 11:54 |
| de-facto | and the best would be to have more doses available | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Arsanerit: for sure, definitely they do | 11:54 |
| de-facto | yeah of course they do that, but is that enough? | 11:54 |
| Arsanerit | but it's complex stuff so aiui one can't simply repurpose generic industry for vaccine production | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | de-facto: no | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the best would be to never have encointered that virus. Either is impossible | 11:55 |
| de-facto | i think so too, need to enhance production capacity even more | 11:55 |
| de-facto | later in 2021 we will have a lot more companies with their vaccine approved, then we probably will have enough capacity, but right now for the winter/spring wave we dont have enough hence we need to produce the approved vaccines as fast as physically possible by acquiring every resource available | 11:56 |
| Arsanerit | what is the prospect for EU approval of Ad5-nCoV, BBIBP-CorV, CoronaVac, Sputnik V, AZD1222, Ad26.COV2.S, NVX-CoV2373, Covaxin, and other promising vaccines? | 11:57 |
| Arsanerit | We're told we need patience. | 11:58 |
| de-facto | %vax Azd1222 | 11:58 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, no such vaccine found. Try checking https://covidvax.org | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we wouldn't gain a lot for "the winter/spring wave" even if some 747 would drop a 200million doses right on our head right now. | 11:58 |
| Arsanerit | DocScrutinizer05: see top row at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine#Vaccine_candidates | 12:00 |
| Arsanerit | apparently developed by University of Oxford and AstraZeneca. | 12:00 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/public-health-threats/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/treatments-vaccines-covid-19 | 12:00 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ema.europa.eu: Treatments and vaccines for COVID-19 | European Medicines Agency | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and definitely no starting to crank up production right now would | 12:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Second jab: Taking part in Russian Sputnik V vaccine trial → https://is.gd/1ZslIw | 12:01 |
| Arsanerit | that covidvax.org website mentioning ready for distribution — distribution /where/ ? | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the results of e.g. another company today licensing BNT162b2 and right away beginning to establish the production process would not have _any_ inpact prior to June 2021, if at all that fast | 12:02 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: I lack the expertise to know how to interpret that table. | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if 100 companies would do the same, no change, still same result | 12:03 |
| de-facto | its all the candidates that aim for approval by EMA id guess | 12:04 |
| de-facto | for each an individual research would have to be done about their current status in progressing with getting approved for emergency usage | 12:04 |
| Arsanerit | yes, but does that mean they're 2 weeks, 2 months, or 2 years away from approval and roll out? | 12:04 |
| Arsanerit | also, how overworked is the EMA? | 12:04 |
| de-facto | id guess months, some weeks | 12:05 |
| Arsanerit | (EMA and their associated institutes) | 12:05 |
| de-facto | but thats speculation | 12:05 |
| Arsanerit | I suppose they may have their own bottlenecks. | 12:05 |
| de-facto | for example Moderna probably will get approved on 2021-01-06 | 12:05 |
| Arsanerit | I read that, who'se next after Moderna? How about the "Russian" and "Chinese" vaccines? We may have been worried they started vaccinating "too early", that doesn't mean their vaccines can't be good too. | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if "management" (aka politics / executive) would "accquire" stuff then we're exactly where Trump been, ordering GM(?) to build respirators instead of whatever they might be moderately savvy and competent in. Did pan out great for them, eh? | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or was it GE? | 12:06 |
| de-facto | als AstraZeneca and Janssen probably will get approved soon if everything goes well | 12:07 |
| de-facto | *also | 12:07 |
| Arsanerit | let's just be patient then | 12:08 |
| de-facto | so hopefully in the summer we will have BNT162b2, mRNA-1273, ChAdOx1-SARS-CoV-2, Ad26.COV2.S | 12:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I really don't think it helps to cheer up a general negative mood of "damn management did everything wrong and now we're all doomed since everything is fubar" - particularly when it's a) incorrect 2) not providing any suggestions how to *feasibly* improve, and 3) repeating every single day | 12:10 |
| de-facto | maybe also CVnCoV, and NVX-CoV-2 rS? | 12:10 |
| de-facto | and a few more? | 12:10 |
| de-facto | i personally am very curious about CVnCoV from CureVac from Tuebingen in Germany | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at very least I am considering a major annoyance and negative impulse for my personal mood management | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | +it | 12:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Mozzies biting? Here's how to choose a repellent (and how to use it for the best protection): Mosquitoes are an inevitable part of the Australian summer. And this year, with COVID a consideration, we might be spending more time outdoors than usual. → https://is.gd/O0LUGU | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on a more positive note: keep in mind we may adjust all numbers for BNT162 vaccine doses being or becoming available, by *(7/5) | 12:15 |
| de-facto | why? | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because BioNTech gave the approval to use *all* of the vaccine in each bottle | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which turns out to be a 6 to 7 shots | 12:23 |
| de-facto | CureVac Phase III trials https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04652102 "Estimated Primary Completion Date: March 5, 2021" and https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/trial/2020-004066-19/DE "Date ???" | 12:23 |
| de-facto | BNT192b2: normally each vial would contain 5 doses each 0.3 ml containing 30µg per dose | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, that's what written on the label | 12:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they overfill, like every industry does, always | 12:25 |
| de-facto | they have to be diluted by 1.8 ml NaCL o.9% | 12:25 |
| de-facto | so that 1.8ml divided by 0.3ml per dose would already be 6 doses | 12:26 |
| de-facto | plus the volume of the vaccine itself being in the vial prior to dilution | 12:26 |
| de-facto | yet probably cant be emptied completely, something will always remain inside each vial | 12:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from "Cluster 5" on Wikipedia: Prototyperspective: /* Discovery */ ce; added 1 item (altered) from 2020 in science (see that page's history for attribution): Discovery: ce; added 1 item (altered) from 2020 in science (see that page's history for attribution) ← Previous revision Revision as of 11:24, 29 December 2020 Line 17: Line 17: == Timeline [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/74bzDF | 12:26 |
| de-facto | if they stick to the protocol for diluting with the 1.8ml NaCL solution id assume BioNTech/Pfizer made sure the resulting vaccine fluid contains sufficient concentration of 30µg modRNA in each of their 0.3ml doses they write on the vial. Hence why not use as many of those 0.3ml doses as possible until the vial is empty? | 12:33 |
| de-facto | if its at least 5 guaranteed 0.3ml doses, good if its 6 why not, if its 7 even better | 12:34 |
| de-facto | is there a protocol for how to extract the vaccine via needle? like is it allowed to touch the vial ground while pulling those 0.3ml? | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Hence why not use as many of those 0.3ml doses as possible until the vial is empty?<< which is exactly what BNT approved | 12:35 |
| de-facto | i.e. any problems to be expected from pulling the very last dose from the vials ground where maybe some particles could have settled down or such? | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>is it allowed to touch the vial ground<< will have issues with needle sharpness, otherwise why not | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, no particles or anything | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with a matching length needle you easily can suck up all but a maybe 0.05ml | 12:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: A year of blursdays: how coronavirus distorted our sense of time in 2020: Does it feel like 2020 went on forever? Did lockdown drag, and can you even remember how you spent your time when you weren't living under coronavirus restrictions? You are not alone. For many, 2020 has been the year in which the constancy of time was [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/IJ6Aer | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too short needle gets tricky, too long requires extreme care | 12:39 |
| de-facto | how do you know about 0.05ml? | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd guess for a few hundred million needles, Therumo or the like will build to order, within 0.1mm precision on length | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | experience | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus guessing | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there will always a 1 or 2 drops remain inside the bottle. The rest been guessing based on my experience how many drops I recall were in 1ml | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'll find my guessing better than some other folks' calculations ;-D | 12:43 |
| de-facto | hmm well since its an emulsion im not so sure it would have the same fluid dynamics than only pure water or such (maybe it breaks up into smaller droplets?), also depends on if the vials got a coating (hydrophobic, lipophil?) inside and of course the surface tension hence the angle for such droplets | 12:48 |
| de-facto | then it depends on the needle diameter and its diagonal slit at the end | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and a lot on the practice and thus technique of the one sucking up that stuff | 12:49 |
| de-facto | the fluid itself cant be allowed to be exposed to physical shock waves, hence no knocking it at the table to get out the very last drop or such, because then the emulsion could collaple the lipid nano particles | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why they overfill such vials massively | 12:49 |
| de-facto | yeah | 12:49 |
| de-facto | *emulsion could collapse the LNPs | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | die lipidinoesen kuegelchen | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't mess with the lipido if the vaccine | 12:51 |
| de-facto | not sure how they produce those, blasting the emulsion with high power ultrasonic waves or such? how can the modRNA survive such abuse? | 12:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Comirnaty, COVID-19 mRNA vaccine (nucleoside-modified), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 21/12/2020, Revision: 1, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/golaYG | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the trick | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one of many | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((a lot on the practice and thus technique)) you pierce the rubber plug close to the rim, insert the needle until tip 1mm above bottom of vial, then angle-"bend" the needle so tip goes to the wall of vial, then turn the whole vial+syringe so it's like 85° sideways, with needle tip at lowest point, then suck up slowly | 13:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/ goes to/ touches/ | 13:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this way the very pinpoint needle tip won't get hurt | 13:01 |
| de-facto | ok but then the needle would not touch the ground of the vial to suck up every last droplet of vaccine fluid | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and believe me, your patients will appreciate a sharp pinpointed needle | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually it _does_ touch the ground, just the ground is a cylinder formerly called the wall | 13:04 |
| de-facto | anyhow i dont believe it really makes such a big difference production would have to be scaled up by orders of magnitude rather than few percent | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus >>85°<< which will aloow surface tension to keep all the liquid collecting at end of needle | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | allow* | 13:06 |
| de-facto | but the vials surface area is bigger than the needles surface, so if not coated with a repellent it probably would hold the droplets onto the vial wall instead of allowing it to stick to the needles surface instead | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, so far it worked each single time | 13:08 |
| de-facto | what worked? | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless I really hit the bottom with the needle tip and ruined it | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it worked to suck up all but 0.05ml aka 2 drops, usually one | 13:10 |
| de-facto | do you have a link about the volumes being found in each vial and how many doses usually came out of it? | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I don't collect links, I found it in reports though in the internet, probably even courtesy Brainstorm | 13:14 |
| de-facto | ah ok, just curious about how much they overfill | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the report said at least a 6th, maybe even 7th dose | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BNT said >>yes, we overfill, use as much as you may get out of the vial<< | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OWTTE | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's also offcuts for syringe connector, needle etc, so they can't say for sure | 13:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there exists small syringes that minimize cutoff in connector by an additional thorn/cone | 13:19 |
| de-facto | so its like 20%-40% more capacity, well thats not so much but better than nothing | 13:23 |
| joehandcockandja | Hello | 13:27 |
| joehandcockandja | My family member just tested positive :( | 13:27 |
| de-facto | hey joehandcockandja sorry to hear that, hope you are fine there | 13:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid-19: Military back-up for pupil testing programme: But teaching unions say there is still not enough time to get tests up and running in England's schools. → https://is.gd/bIGueM | 13:29 |
| de-facto | try to isolate from that family member, use different rooms at different time and practice as much hygiene as possible, also make sure to have enough air exchange to prevent aerosol spread | 13:30 |
| de-facto | still assume you also might have catched it and isolate not only from the one tested positive but also from other people | 13:30 |
| joehandcockandja | Thanks. I probably got it from him and have symptoms. | 13:30 |
| de-facto | how old are you if i may ask? | 13:30 |
| joehandcockandja | 24 | 13:30 |
| joehandcockandja | I usually get sick around this time of year, I'm getting the rapid test later today though so I should know soon enough whether it is covid or not | 13:31 |
| de-facto | ok so then you have very good chances that you just will be fine, still be careful and isolate from both, the positive and others | 13:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I guess (not as certain as with drop volume above) a 5 times waste/cutoff for syringe&needle connector might already be in the ballpark of 0.3ml | 13:32 |
| de-facto | assuming the worst case that you might have got infected: the initial infection dose would have a phase of exponential replication and at some point a test threshold would be reached for getting a positive test result, so a negative test may only be valid for a specific time depending on the test sensitivity | 13:33 |
| joehandcockandja | Okay | 13:34 |
| joehandcockandja | I'll keep that in mind | 13:34 |
| joehandcockandja | Has anyone else in this chat had it | 13:34 |
| de-facto | e.g. when the testing sensitivity could be assumed to become positive at some threshold and a negative test is just below that threshold (viral load), there is a time until viral load increased to the threshold where it could be considered infectious to proximity | 13:34 |
| de-facto | some say antigen quicktests negative results are valid for ~1 day, and RT-PCR maybe ~2 days to stay below infectious threshold | 13:35 |
| de-facto | i think Skunny did had it | 13:35 |
| joehandcockandja | I rly just don't wanna die | 13:35 |
| joehandcockandja | That would be really annoying | 13:36 |
| de-facto | normally viral load would come down significantly in the first week after testing positive (thats the median though so half of cases are above, other half is below) | 13:36 |
| de-facto | dont be scared too much age 24 you very likely will be just fine, yet be extra careful for the next few weeks | 13:37 |
| joehandcockandja | Thanks :) that makes me feel better | 13:37 |
| de-facto | oh and disclaimer, we cant give you medical advice, just some chat :) | 13:38 |
| de-facto | do you have a N95 mask to wear in shared rooms? | 13:38 |
| joehandcockandja | Yeet | 13:38 |
| de-facto | and do you like to drink green or black tea? | 13:40 |
| joehandcockandja | Definitely | 13:40 |
| de-facto | it could maybe help (got some antiviral props in vitro), in vivo in normal doses of course (to prevent liver problems) | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't mind, an aspirin might be a good idea right now | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no kidding | 13:41 |
| joehandcockandja | Oh yeah I took two | 13:42 |
| de-facto | yeah ASS100 why not? | 13:42 |
| joehandcockandja | I've been uhhh basically up all night fucking panicking though so I got like an hour of sleep | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually a quarter of a niormal 500mg suffices | 13:42 |
| de-facto | also alcoholic mouthwashes could help, like Listerine cool mint etc | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | best advice probably: don't panic, make feel comfortable and relax. This will help a lot | 13:43 |
| de-facto | just reducing the dose a bit of course | 13:43 |
| joehandcockandja | Are you guys like actual doctors | 13:44 |
| de-facto | yeah and being careful, wear N95 in shared rooms, spray alcohol on shared items and make sure to have air exchange | 13:44 |
| de-facto | nope not at all | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your risk is in the very low range unless you got some specific health issues already in the past | 13:44 |
| de-facto | i come from math/physics background, just interested in the topic | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | by all means consult a real physician | 13:45 |
| de-facto | .title https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2774102 | 13:45 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From jamanetwork.com: Household Transmission of SARS-CoV-2: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis | Global Health | JAMA Network Open | JAMA Network | 13:46 |
| de-facto | " In this meta-analysis of 54 studies with 77 758 participants, the estimated overall household secondary attack rate was 16.6%..." | 13:46 |
| joehandcockandja | Yeah if I test positive then I'll probably let the ol doctor know | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :thumbs-up: | 13:46 |
| de-facto | "Estimated household secondary attack rate was 16.6% (95% CI, 14.0%-19.3%), higher than secondary attack rates for SARS-CoV (7.5%; 95% CI, 4.8%-10.7%) and MERS-CoV (4.7%; 95% CI, 0.9%-10.7%)." | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too many numbers | 13:47 |
| de-facto | "Household secondary attack rates were increased from symptomatic index cases (18.0%; 95% CI, 14.2%-22.1%) than from asymptomatic index cases (0.7%; 95% CI, 0%-4.9%), to adult contacts (28.3%; 95% CI, 20.2%-37.1%) than to child contacts (16.8%; 95% CI, 12.3%-21.7%), to spouses (37.8%; 95% CI, 25.8%-50.5%) than to other family contacts (17.8%; 95% CI, 11.7%-24.8%), and in households with 1 contact (41.5%; 95% CI, 31.7%-51.7%) than in | 13:47 |
| de-facto | households with 3 or more contacts (22.8%; 95% CI, 13.6%-33.5%)." | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | joehandcockandja: do you still smell and taste things? | 13:49 |
| de-facto | .title https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-020-00698-1 | 13:49 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From link.springer.com: Assessing the age specificity of infection fatality rates for COVID-19: systematic review, meta-analysis, and public policy implications | SpringerLink | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's better one | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bottom line for joehandcockandja: your risk is higher when crossing a busy street | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | than from corona | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so don't worry | 13:50 |
| joehandcockandja | Ty Doc | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw <3 | 13:52 |
| joehandcockandja | Your kind words are much appreciated | 13:52 |
| joehandcockandja | I can smell and taste just fine, no temperature | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | smell is usually first symptom | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | loss of... | 13:53 |
| de-facto | their claim: Log10[IFR] = -3.27 + 0.0524*age, hence IFR[age] = Exp[Log[2] age / 5.75]/186200 < 1, or IFR[24] ~ 1/10316 | 13:53 |
| joehandcockandja | These numbers, they hurt my head | 13:53 |
| de-facto | but probably actually more accurate for age > 60 | 13:53 |
| joehandcockandja | I'll tell you guys if I end up testing positive or dying! God bless | 13:54 |
| de-facto | what i wanted to say is that you have low chance (1/6) to get infected and if so very low chance (1/10000) of fatal outcome with your age of 24 | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | joehandcockandja: don't look at those, they often are puzzling if you're not familiar with the matter | 13:55 |
| de-facto | be really careful but dont worry too much, i am pretty sure you will be just fine | 13:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: SARS-CoV-2 diversity in Uganda, December 2020: (topic withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged) 1 post - 1 participant Read full topic → https://is.gd/3mitSI | 13:55 |
| joehandcockandja | Okay 😭 | 13:55 |
| joehandcockandja | Tysm | 13:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | may I ask where (country) you live? | 13:57 |
| joehandcockandja | US of A | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks! | 13:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Gibraltar: +87 cases (now 1793) since a day ago — Germany: +14399 cases (now 1.7 million), +749 deaths (now 31251) since 23 hours ago | 13:59 |
| de-facto | potentially infectious droplets (their trajectory blocked by covering both mouth and nose with) aerosol (stays in the air like smoke for minutes to hours, air exchange required for removal) is produced by sneezing, coughing, shouting, singing and talking | 14:02 |
| de-facto | so make sure you dont talk face to face and physically distance, best would be not to share rooms and have enough air exchange (open windows), also protect yourself from inhaling aerosols with wearing an N95 mask | 14:04 |
| de-facto | contact transmission also can happen (it can stay infectious on surfaces for days to weeks) but decays exponentially with time, hence depends on the contamination dose to come above infection threshold | 14:05 |
| de-facto | it enters the human body through the mucus membranes (e.g. face eyes, nose, mouth and elsewhere too), so make sure to always wash hands and not touch your face | 14:06 |
| de-facto | afaik there were studies showing that contact transmission only contributes like 16% to infections, not sure if that also is the case in households though probably depends | 14:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Phase 3 trials begin for Novavax vaccine in US, Mexico: Clinical trials to determine the safety and efficacy of a COVID-19 vaccine candidate from American biotech company Novavax have begun in the United States and Mexico, the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) announced Monday. → https://is.gd/Kpblru | 14:08 |
| de-facto | ethanol and isopropanol alcohol are quite good in sanitizing if concentrations are high enough (id guess like >70% or such) | 14:08 |
| de-facto | if you have the luxury of two bathrooms try to not share them with the one tested positive | 14:10 |
| de-facto | all that only to minimize infection probability, dont be scared just be careful | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 16% contact transmission? sounds actually high to me, I had thought it was in the low 1 digit percent range | 14:14 |
| de-facto | its an old number | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah | 14:15 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20065250v1 | 14:18 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses. Part 2 - Hand hygiene and other hygiene measures: systematic review and meta-analysis | medRxiv | 14:18 |
| de-facto | "Hand hygiene showed a 16% relative reduction in the number of participants with ARI (RR 0.84, 95% CI 0.82 to 0.86) in the intervention group." | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's highly relative. Meanwhile you'd guess everybody learned to wash their hands, so... | 14:20 |
| de-facto | ARI = acute respiratory infection | 14:20 |
| de-facto | yeah i just mentioned it because it means that other transmission vectors probably contribute the main part to new infections, id think: aerosol > droplets > surfaces | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ack | 14:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: SARS-CoV-2 diversity in Uganda, December, 2020: SARS-CoV-2 diversity in Uganda, December 2020 MRC/UVRI & LSHTM Uganda Research Unit, Entebbe SARS-CoV-2 Sequencing Group, in close collaboration with Uganda Virus Research Institute and the Uganda Central Public Health Laboratory Introduction The novel Severe Acute Respiratory [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/dPyVPn | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless "surface" includes idiocy like sharing a bottle etc | 14:21 |
| de-facto | and of course the origin (the respiratory tract of the infected carrier), transmission path (as mentioned above), and the entry path (mucus membranes of susceptible) matters, so any prevention of infection would have to block that path of transmission | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kissing ;-D | 14:22 |
| de-facto | yeah ... | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zhere are those nasal sprays to block virus, available freely at pharmacy. Did anybody test their efficiency agains cov2? | 14:24 |
| de-facto | so blocking it at the source (the infected person) would probably be the most efficient, hence the infected always wearing a mask and practicing stellar hand hygiene (never cough in hand and touch stuff, always wash them with warm water and soap for 30s) to not spread the virions all around the flat | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly won't hurt to use a WICK acmenosetreatmentspray for a few days, but would it help at all? | 14:25 |
| de-facto | DocScrutinizer05, last time i checked they would need prescription | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 14:26 |
| de-facto | if you meant those Ciclesonide inhalers | 14:26 |
| de-facto | or what were you talking about? | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | %tr <de Mikro-Gel Nasenspray - fängt Erkältungsviren direkt im Nasen- und Rachenraum ab, dort wo sich Erkältungsviren ansiedeln und vermehren. Die Mikro-Gel Formulierung hat einen 3-fach Effekt: Erkältungsviren abfangen & einschließen, unschädlich machen und entfernen | 14:27 |
| Brainstorm | DocScrutinizer05, German to English: Micro-gel nasal spray - catches cold viruses directly in the nasal and throat areas, where cold viruses settle and multiply. The micro-gel formulation has a 3-fold effect: intercepting and enclosing cold viruses, rendering them harmless and removing them (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.medikamente-per-klick.de/wick-erste-abwehr-nasenspray-spruehflasche-15ml-02369761 | 14:27 |
| de-facto | btw i would not mess with that, there are no tests in vivo, especially not for early moments e.g. prior or during infection | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there also was carrageen | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but that is prolly not as easy to get | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I wonder where's that study about the first up there ^^^ that I missed to read | 14:30 |
| de-facto | .title https://jvi.asm.org/content/95/1/e01648-20 but again i would not recommend messing around with that, maybe it even could make things worse, afaik it was NOT tested in humans for its benefits | 14:32 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From jvi.asm.org: The Inhaled Steroid Ciclesonide Blocks SARS-CoV-2 RNA Replication by Targeting the Viral Replication-Transcription Complex in Cultured Cells | Journal of Virology | 14:32 |
| de-facto | i would not mess with either sprays in such a situation tbh | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errr >>Zusammensetzung: Wasser, Hydroxypropylmethylcellulose (basierend auf pflanzlichen Inhaltsstoffen), Bernsteinsäure, Dinatriumsuccinat, Pyroglutaminsäure, Phenylethylalkohol, Zink EDTA, Zinkacetat, Polysorbat 80, Aroma: (Menthol, Kampfer, Eucalyptol), Saccharin-Natrium<< | 14:33 |
| de-facto | yeah hmm | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's "mechanical" | 14:34 |
| de-facto | antibodies are "mechanical" too | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe | 14:35 |
| de-facto | puzzling with molecules | 14:35 |
| de-facto | well macromolecules to be fair | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well here it's just slime | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it covers the mucous membranes with a protective immobilizing film, it may actually work | 14:42 |
| de-facto | hmm slime is there anyhow | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but it's a special slime, with wallpaper glue | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | methylcellulose | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, english WP sucks, so here de https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxypropylmethylcellulose | 14:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sweden: +32485 cases (now 428533), +205 deaths (now 8484) since 5 days ago | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually to start with, the question is: does that wick stuff work against cold virus at least | 14:55 |
| de-facto | hmm idk i would take Vitamin D3 50-100µg and Zinc 15-30mg maybe even Aspirin 100mg, but not mess around with sprays | 15:10 |
| de-facto | id also prepare one can of Green or Black Tea (just one spoon of leafs) and have it on my table to drink from it the whole day (well i do that already because i like the taste) | 15:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: UK faces 'catastrophe' without tougher action, warns scientist → https://is.gd/K8uTLD | 15:13 |
| de-facto | Maybe i also would take Hesperidin and Rutin each like 400mg, or just eat whole Citrus fruits (Lemons, together with the peel if its declared to be grown without pesticides) and Buckwheat, Capers etc | 15:14 |
| de-facto | even just drinking enough probably is of quite some importance to make sure "everything works" at maximum efficiency (e.g. immune system) and also to prevent blood clots | 15:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: An explanation for the lack of blood oxygenation detected in many COVID-19 patients: One of the physiopathological characteristics of COVID-19 that has most baffled the scientific and medical community is what is known as "silent hypoxemia," or "happy hypoxia." Patients suffering this phenomenon, the causes of which are still [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/guD0Ky | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm >>eat whole Citrus fruits (Lemons, together with the peel...<< sounds a bit weird. What's the purpose? | 15:54 |
| de-facto | it contains a lot of antioxidants and also substances like Hesperidin for which there are in-silico studies that it may block the main protease of sars-cov-2 | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | %papers honey | 15:55 |
| Brainstorm | DocScrutinizer05, 2 papers: Therapeutic efficacy of Honey and Nigella sativa against COVID-19: A multi-center randomized controlled clinical trial (HNS-COVID-PK) by Sohaib Ashraf et al, made available as preprint on 2020-11-03 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.10.30.20217364 [... want %more?] | 15:55 |
| de-facto | yeah or that, but they did not have their study correctly double blinded | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | %papers Hesperidin | 15:57 |
| de-facto | %papers hesperidin | 15:57 |
| Brainstorm | DocScrutinizer05, 13 papers: Hydrodynamic Cavitation-based Rapid Expansion of Hesperidin-rich Products from Waste Citrus Peel as a Potential Tool Against COVID-19 by Francesco Meneguzzo et al, made available as preprint on 2020-04-09 at https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0152/v1 [... want %more?] | 15:57 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, 13 papers: Hydrodynamic Cavitation-based Rapid Expansion of Hesperidin-rich Products from Waste Citrus Peel as a Potential Tool Against COVID-19 by Francesco Meneguzzo et al, made available as preprint on 2020-04-09 at https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0152/v1 [... want %more?] | 15:57 |
| de-facto | %papers rutin | 15:57 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, 11 papers: In Silico Exploration of Repurposing and Optimizing Traditional Chinese Medicine Rutin for Possibly Inhibiting SARS-CoV-2's Main Protease by Tien Huynh et al, made available as preprint on 2020-05-14 at [u'https://api.figshare.com/v2/articles/12281078', u'https://ndownloader.figshare.com/files/22634102'] [... want %more?] | 15:57 |
| de-facto | %papers quercetin | 15:57 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, 30 papers: Evaluation of the Effect of Zinc, Quercetin, Bromelain and Vitamin C on COVID-19 Patients by Amr Ahmed et al, made available as preprint on 2020-12-24 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.12.22.20245993 [... want %more?] | 15:57 |
| de-facto | .title http://phenol-explorer.eu/ | 15:59 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From phenol-explorer.eu: Database on Polyphenol Content in Foods - Phenol-Explorer | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think that's othogonal to nasal spray based on natural medically/physiologically inert substances | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd rather classify such nasal spray into the group of "mask" NPIs | 16:01 |
| de-facto | yeah its independent from nasal spray and has to be taken with a big grain of salt (meaning its just a hint that there are some in vitro studies or even just in-silico), for some there are ongoing in vivo studies though | 16:02 |
| de-facto | not sure about if there are already results | 16:02 |
| de-facto | probably difficult to get conclusive results when there are just small trials, such as for Ivermectin | 16:03 |
| de-facto | %paper Ivermectin | 16:03 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, 51 papers: A Combination of Ivermectin and Doxycycline Possibly Blocks the Viral Entry and Modulate the Innate Immune Response in COVID-19 Patients by Dharmendra Kumar Maurya et al, made available as preprint on 2020-07-09 at [u'https://api.figshare.com/v2/articles/12630539', u'https://ndownloader.figshare.com/files/23757572'] [... want %more?] | 16:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid-19: Military back-up for pupil testing programme: But teaching unions say there is still not enough time to get tests up and running in England's schools. → https://is.gd/bIGueM | 16:04 |
| de-facto | .title https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT04390022 | 16:05 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From clinicaltrials.gov: Sars-CoV-2/COVID-19 Ivermectin Navarra-ISGlobal Trial - Study Results - ClinicalTrials.gov | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the interesting thing about that nasal spray is that it is completely non-pharmaceutical/medical acting, and thus absolutely non-selective for type of virus. Means: if there are studies that it has some efficiency against cold virus, iwe could reasonably assume it would have same effect on sars-cov2 virus, at least for the nasal mucous membranes | 16:08 |
| de-facto | well search for some studies id guess | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the other highly interesting thing: it's preventive, not just curative | 16:09 |
| de-facto | would be interesting to read more than advertisement about their approach and if it works | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I asked if somebody ever heard about any such study | 16:10 |
| de-facto | have you tried searching with google et al? | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I admit I didn't so far, except for the "wallpaper glue" | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | assuming I can't be the first with such idea | 16:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: UK faces 'catastrophe' without tougher action, warns scientist → https://is.gd/K8uTLD | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one maybe useful detail: in Germany it's legally forbidden to make completely bogus/false claims about your product in commercials. So we maybe should check the german ads to start with. IIRC (I might be wrong) I did and they claim >>helps against *some* types of virus<< | 16:18 |
| de-facto | hmm id rather not base my assumption on that | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? it suggests that there is no proof that the stuff helps against *all* types of virus | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I think that's a pretty good initial assumtion for a working hypothesis | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it also suggests that there must - or should - be some sort of study supporting their claim | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mongolia: +1 deaths (now 1) since 10 hours ago | 16:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: COVID - 19 and Advanced Gastro-intestinal Cancer Treatment: Conditions : Pancreatic Cancer; Gastric Cancer; Esophagus Cancer; Colorectal Cancer → https://is.gd/eTR1CJ | 17:09 |
| genera | is it enforced? | 17:16 |
| genera | and the answer is no ( https://www.wuv.de/specials/pharmamarketing/globukalypse_duerfen_krankenkassen_fuer_globuli_werben | 17:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +7485 cases (now 779090), +128 deaths (now 11186) since 20 hours ago | 17:24 |
| Jigsy | 53K cases today. | 17:58 |
| de-facto | wow delayed reporting? | 17:58 |
| Jigsy | And they still want kids to go back to school in January. | 17:59 |
| Jigsy | Seems like an odd hill to die on. But then again it's probably a hill of human skulls... | 17:59 |
| Jigsy | Or corpses... | 17:59 |
| Jigsy | de-facto: I think so. | 17:59 |
| Jigsy | I'm not 100% sure. | 17:59 |
| Jigsy | Though people think it's the pre-xmas spike. | 18:00 |
| Jigsy | So it could be 70K by the time we hit January? | 18:00 |
| de-facto | %cases UK | 18:01 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: In United Kingdom, there have been 2.3 million confirmed cases (3.5% of the population) and 71163 deaths (3.1% of cases) as of 9 hours ago. 52.3 million tests were performed (4.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 18:01 |
| Jigsy | https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases | 18:03 |
| de-facto | hmm went down a but after Xmess than up again now? (offloop) | 18:03 |
| de-facto | is it from the new N501Y cluster? | 18:03 |
| Jigsy | Probably. | 18:03 |
| de-facto | or/and delayed reporting? | 18:03 |
| Jigsy | They were still being reported over the Christmas break.. | 18:05 |
| de-facto | Wales > England > Northern Ireland > Scotland | 18:06 |
| de-facto | from another source: sequences N501Y mutation 4362 total: 3580 England, 479 Wales, 202 South Africa, 37 Australia/VIC, 18 Scotland, 10 Denmark, 7 Ireland, 5 Japan, 5 USA/MA, 3 Italy, 3 Netherlands, 2 Hong Kong, 2 Australia/NSW, 1 Gibraltar, 1 Brazil, 1 USA/IL, 1 Australia/SAP, 1 France, 1 USA/OR, 1 Singapore, 1 USA/NY, 1 Israel | 18:07 |
| de-facto | but that also (mainly?) reflects how many sequences are done in that area | 18:08 |
| de-facto | its hard to tell during holidays which influences contribute how much to incidence | 18:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Diseases, Conditions, Syndromes: Damaged nerves, scarred lungs, exhausted bodies: Some COVID-19 patients face a long haul that can last for months → https://is.gd/4fEaL6 | 18:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +16586 cases (now 2.3 million), +135 deaths (now 71298) since 9 hours ago — Switzerland: +4197 cases (now 442481), +31 deaths (now 7392) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +6217 cases (now 560584), +247 deaths (now 15217) since 23 hours ago | 18:21 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, re: sewers... quite possible (if not even probable), but i still think it's also quite possible that, for some reason that i don't know (but that is made plausible by the *previous* sewer findings), at the start of a wave the virus propagates more slowly than we'd expect. so it still could have started in the UK, and, more importantly, it could still be the cause of the UK spike (and now other EU spikes that are forming) | 18:21 |
| LjL | my parents (and i) are very upset by the news that AstraZeneca won't receive the european go-ahead until later in January (in a sense, good thing, since approving them based on the CEO's informal statement that "we've found a trick to make efficacy 95%" would have been... undefinable), but at the same time, finding out that Sanofi doesn't really work in people >50 | 18:22 |
| LjL | and those are the vaccines that Italy requested the most of | 18:22 |
| LjL | Italy was all smug saying "we were the first to file our request". yeah, good thing. maybe others were waiting to see efficacy data, uh? | 18:22 |
| joehandcockandja | Update on my condition: I have covid! | 18:23 |
| joehandcockandja | Confirmed | 18:23 |
| LjL | and what makes me madder about Sanofi, if true, is https://np.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/klu0co/vaccine_germany_bought_30_million_doses_outside/ghb2ke7/ | 18:23 |
| LjL | joehandcockandja, hurray! no wait, i mean, i'm sorry | 18:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from Lockdowns from Wikipedia: Arcahaeoindris: added more info on Malaysian MCO and added Cambodia: added more info on Malaysian MCO and added Cambodia ← Previous revision Revision as of 17:17, 29 December 2020 Line 129: Line 129: ===Malaysia=== ===Malaysia=== + {{Main|2020 Malaysia movement control order}}Malaysia introduced the nationwide [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uhc8nH | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sanofi fubar? ouch° :-( | 18:53 |
| Arsanerit | what's sanofi and what's the problem? | 18:54 |
| LjL | %links sanofi | 18:56 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, https://www.biocentury.com/article/304919 (As COVID-19 vaccines progress, science and policy questions become more urgent), published on BioCentury, discusses the agreement between Sanofi and GlaxoSmithKline giving opinions on practicality of trials, scaling up, and manufacturing capacity [... want %more?] | 18:56 |
| LjL | %links sanofi delay | 18:56 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, https://www.sanofi.com/en/media-room/press-releases/2020/2020-12-11-07-00-00 (Sanofi and GSK announce a delay in their adjuvanted recombinant protein-based COVID-19 vaccine program to improve immune response in the elderly) in a press release where they disclose that while the vaccine produces an immune response similar to COVID-19 patients when administered to people between [... want %more?] | 18:56 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, Arsanerit ↑ | 18:56 |
| LjL | it's not fresh news, i just didn't know | 18:56 |
| Arsanerit | thanks | 18:56 |
| Arsanerit | so one vaccine that is delayed | 18:57 |
| LjL | "delayed" for now | 19:03 |
| LjL | but if it doesn't work in older people, who knows if it'll ever be a thing at all | 19:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Lockdowns from Wikipedia: Arcahaeoindris: /* See also */: See also ← Previous revision Revision as of 17:53, 29 December 2020 Line 334: Line 334: *[[COVID-19 pandemic lockdown in India]] *[[COVID-19 pandemic lockdown in India]] *[[COVID-19 pandemic lockdown in Italy]] *[[COVID-19 pandemic lockdown in Italy]] + *[[2020 Malaysia movement [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uhc8nH | 19:04 |
| Arsanerit | bad luck, good there are other vaccines | 19:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +11210 cases (now 2.1 million), +659 deaths (now 73029) since a day ago — Eritrea: +181 cases (now 1220) since 2 days ago | 19:10 |
| LjL | ugh and in our government they're already starting to argue and make scenes on the media about making the vaccine mandatory | 19:11 |
| LjL | never a worse example of bad timing | 19:11 |
| LjL | we don't HAVE the vaccine for now, we don't KNOW its actual properties, and for most of the vaccines we "bought", we don't know if they'll even EXIST | 19:11 |
| LjL | but they're already making everyone mad with hypothetical mandates, meh | 19:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from Lockdowns from Wikipedia: Vladmirpooti: /* India */: India ← Previous revision Revision as of 18:13, 29 December 2020 Line 101: Line 101: On 1 May, the Government of India extended the nationwide lockdown further by two weeks until 17 May. The Government divided all the districts into three zones based on the spread of the virus—green, red [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uhc8nH | 19:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Outlook Unclear For $2,000 COVID-19 Relief Payments As Action Shifts To Senate: Democrats excoriated majority Republicans and Majority Leader Mitch McConnell Tuesday, but the road ahead remains uncertain for more in direct disbursements from the government. → https://is.gd/CR2ukl | 19:29 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Margaret Keenan, first patient to get Pfizer vaccine, receives second jab (10221 votes) | https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-margaret-keenan-first-patient-to-get-pfizer-vaccine-receives-second-jab-12174859 | https://redd.it/kmfs73 | 19:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Diseases, Conditions, Syndromes: Sustained cellular immune dysregulation in individuals recovering from COVID-19 → https://is.gd/8Ea11i | 19:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Lockdowns from Wikipedia: Arcahaeoindris: /* Debate */ removed neutrality tag as I have addressed issue: Debate: removed neutrality tag as I have addressed issue ← Previous revision Revision as of 19:06, 29 December 2020 Line 313: Line 313: ==Debate== ==Debate== − {{Neutrality-section}} Several analysts have concluded that lockdowns are [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uhc8nH | 20:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Lockdowns from Wikipedia: Arcahaeoindris: /* Debate */: Debate ← Previous revision Revision as of 19:17, 29 December 2020 Line 313: Line 313: ==Debate== ==Debate== − Several analysts have concluded that lockdowns are effective at reducing the spread of COVID-19. {{Cite [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uhc8nH | 20:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ireland: +1545 cases (now 88439), +8 deaths (now 2213) since a day ago — Spain: +13578 cases (now 1.9 million), +320 deaths (now 50442) since a day ago — Switzerland: +95 deaths (now 7457) since 18 hours ago | 20:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Study examines the most effective COVID-19 control policies: With the arrival of effective vaccines for the COVID-19 virus, the end of the pandemic is on the horizon but in the short term the virus continues to spread. → https://is.gd/3OdIAY | 20:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +6896 cases (now 779107) since 19 hours ago | 21:15 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: SARS-CoV-2 diversity in Uganda, December, 2020 (87 votes) | https://virological.org/t/sars-cov-2-diversity-in-uganda-december-2020/571 | https://redd.it/kmfizl | 21:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Health: Public health experts grow frustrated with pace of Covid-19 vaccine rollout → https://is.gd/b7QhXW | 21:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Russia admits COVID death toll is three times higher than reported → https://is.gd/4WLK4D | 22:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +969 deaths (now 64078) since 22 hours ago | 22:04 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Five reasons COVID-19 is less severe in younger age groups (81 votes) | https://academic.oup.com/emph/advance-article/doi/10.1093/emph/eoaa050/6050806 | https://redd.it/kmjmn4 | 22:29 |
| m23fcdymzv6wqmr4 | Bots on bots on bots. | 22:30 |
| LjL | https://businesstoday.in/story/oxford-covid19-vaccine-95-per-cent-effective-if-given-3-months-apart-says-siis-adar-poonawalla/1/426336.html | 22:50 |
| LjL | "the efficacy of its coronavirus vaccine rises to as much as 95 per cent if the two shots are parted by around 2-3 months" | 22:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The coronavirus pandemic is “not necessarily the big one,” senior W.H.O. official says. → https://is.gd/0yulZF | 22:51 |
| LjL | Which doesn't seem ideal really, if after the first shot you have less than 50% protection and then you have to wait two-three months(!) for the booster | 22:51 |
| LjL | His remarks follow a statement by AstraZeneca CEO Pascal Soriot, who said that the company has worked out a "winning formula to get efficacy up there with everybody else." | 22:51 |
| LjL | The CEO shouldn't say something like that with that horrendous phrasing of they want me to take them seriously | 22:52 |
| LjL | But obviously they don't, they just want to get approval from governments that ultimately have to approve them anyway because they've invested tons of money into them and not so much into buying the other vaccines too | 22:52 |
| de-facto | maybe its not such a big problem if in the summer incidence would come down again (as in 2020)? | 23:05 |
| de-facto | assumed that this 2-3 months gap to achieve ~95% protection from disease with AZD1222 really turns out to be required, i wonder about the mechanisms responsible for that | 23:10 |
| de-facto | and if that also is the case for the high risk group e.g. elderly >70y old | 23:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from Emma Hodcroft: @firefoxx66: The latest focal #SARSCoV2 S:N501 build, with data from the morning of 29 Dec, is now up!In the SE England (N501.V1 / B.1.1.7) & South African (N501.V2) variants we see new sequences from Portugal, Norway, Finland, Sweden, & South [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/KaiLDd | 23:15 |
| de-facto | this is really neat :)) | 23:20 |
| de-facto | .title https://github.com/emmahodcroft/covariants/blob/master/country_overview.md | 23:22 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From github.com: covariants/country_overview.md at master · emmahodcroft/covariants · GitHub | 23:22 |
| de-facto | damn i hate pink | 23:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Chad: +33 cases (now 2048) since a day ago | 23:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Biden Again Criticizes Trump's COVID Response, Vows To Speed Vaccine Production: In a speech Tuesday, the president-elect laid out his plan to combat coronavirus and criticized President Trump's response to the pandemic. He also encouraged Trump to get vaccinated. → https://is.gd/5cunUv | 23:41 |
| Arsanerit | Is there a benefit for ex-covid-19 patients to get the vaccine? | 23:46 |
| euod[m] | is there a reason for them not to? | 23:50 |
| Arsanerit | if it's pointless then the reason not to would be to leave the dose for someone who needs it more? | 23:51 |
| Arsanerit | I don't know if it's pointless though. | 23:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: A preliminary selection analysis of the South African V501.V2 SARS-CoV-2 clade: Sergei L Kosakovsky Pond, Eduan Wilkison, Steven Weaver, San Emmanuel James, Houriiyah Tegally, Tulio de Oliveira, and Darren Martin An interactive notebook where you can explore this analysis and view additional information (e.g. map [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/b1sNyz | 23:53 |
| de-facto | idk it probably depends on the degree of immunity acquired by recovery from an average infection and how long it is in the past. seems like many vaccinations need two shots one primer and one booster, so maybe vaccination of recovered may also boost their immunity? | 23:56 |
| de-facto | whoa LjL neat you added quite some good sources about mutations | 23:56 |
| Arsanerit | I don't know if countries with their vaccination campaigns have any special treatment for ex-covid-19 patients or if they're treated exactly the same. | 23:57 |
| LjL | de-facto: I think I added something last night or the night before when I thought you were probably sleeping and I should probably remember to tell you but then I didn't remember and I also don't remember what it was now :p | 23:58 |
| euod[m] | people will just lie and say they've had it to avoid being jabbed. | 23:58 |
| euod[m] | jab everyone. | 23:59 |
| LjL | I hope COVID doesn't come with memory impairments because if I get any worse than this... | 23:59 |
| de-facto | if it really would be like infections would be 5-fold more than detected by tests 80% of people would not even know prior to vaccination | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
