DocScrutinizer05 | libreoffice explodes into your face when you try to open the RKI cases csv. That's why I wrote a bash script to aggregate it | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
de-facto | huh? i dont have such problems with it, though i always fight with its autocorrect | 00:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | seems LO can't really cope with sheets with more than a few 100k rows | 00:01 |
de-facto | no not nearly 100k rows | 00:02 |
de-facto | try it, it works just fine for the data i linked above | 00:02 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ========== 1102638 records done ========== RKI cases statistics, as I said and based http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics.htm on it | 00:03 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I guess LO can't even theoretically handle that | 00:03 |
de-facto | you are not using the link i provided | 00:04 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not talking the topic you seem to imply | 00:04 |
de-facto | we were talking about the links i provided as source for my graphs | 00:06 |
DocScrutinizer05 | my point just being: LO isn't *that* great at dealing with larger datasets, and "doesn't work" isn't unheard of | 00:06 |
DocScrutinizer05 | well, you were talking, I wasn't | 00:07 |
DocScrutinizer05 | sorry if that wasn't as obvious as I hoped | 00:07 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't find a better more obvious term than "the RKI cases csv" | 00:08 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Rwanda: +574 cases (now 13885), +4 deaths (now 181) since a day ago | 00:08 |
de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/lJZJpVe https://i.imgur.com/dvUDWpF.png source: https://impfdashboard.de/ https://impfdashboard.de/static/data/germany_vaccinations_timeseries_v2.tsv | 00:09 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: Germany COVID-19: Vaccination (BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273) doses and quotes - Album on Imgur | 00:09 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: CDC Makes Case For School Reopening: Federal researchers say, with proper safety precautions, schools don't seem to fuel outbreaks, with some exceptions, such as indoor sports practices. → https://is.gd/NEdolJ | 00:13 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: Some European Countries Move To Require Medical-Grade Masks In Public: Germany, Austria and France have announced new measures that push fabric masks aside. European leaders have tied the policy changes to efforts to fend off fast-spreading coronavirus variants. → https://is.gd/tuWRGN | 00:25 |
LjL | "The council now recommends that people wear Category 1 masks in public, rather than Category 2 which includes most cloth masks. Category 1 includes FFP2 masks, surgical masks and fabric masks that meet specific standards. Lepelletier discouraged the general public from using the FFP2 filter masks, though, warning that they are difficult to wear correctly, according to The Local France." | 00:27 |
LjL | so Germany and Austria *enforce* FFP2; meanwhile, France enforces "medical" masks but encourages surgical ones and explicitly *discourages* FFP2 | 00:27 |
LjL | how can they all expect to build public trust in their recommendations? | 00:27 |
LjL | are we still back at square one (aka beginnings of 2020) when these recommendations are made based on what's available in stock, which may be good for the stock, but definitely bad for public perception and compliance? | 00:28 |
LjL | ubLIX[m], what do you think, did i fix the bot too well for mjensen? | 00:32 |
ubLIX[m] | uff idk. people come and go | 00:34 |
de-facto | where I live in Germany they demand "In the local public transport, when shopping and in other areas, a medical mask must be worn instead of the previous "everyday mask". Medical masks include surgical masks (DIN EN 14683: 2019-10) or FFP2 (DIN EN 149: 2001) or masks of the KN95 standards" | 00:35 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: UK passes grim milestone of 100,000 COVID deaths → https://is.gd/tBc4fD | 00:37 |
de-facto | excaptions are hospitals (mandatory FFP2/(K)N95 equivalent) and children (no mask till 5 years and community mask till 14 years) | 00:38 |
de-facto | .title https://cov-lineages.org/global_report.html | 01:06 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From cov-lineages.org: PANGO lineages | 01:06 |
de-facto | "Global Report Investigating Novel Coronavirus Haplotypes" | 01:07 |
LjL | de-facto, "This report is recent as of 2021-01-24 17:34 GMT. All SARS-CoV-2 sequences were downloaded from GISAID and genomes were de-duplicated based on GISAID sequence name – note that the publically available metadata may not fully allow us to de-duplicate by patient." | 01:14 |
LjL | i find it pretty annoying that this information isn't fully public | 01:14 |
LjL | what are they afraid of, if i get the full sequence i'll make the virus at home? | 01:14 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Sanofi, in unusual move, to lend spare production capacity to Pfizer, BioNTech, manufacture more than 100 million doses after setbacks and delays in the development of its own vaccine candidates → https://is.gd/QYZzNT | 01:15 |
LjL | oh! | 01:19 |
LjL | well, that means the Sanofi vaccine probably does suck and they can't improve it :P | 01:19 |
LjL | de-facto, ↑ | 01:19 |
LjL | "... with initial deliveries expected by August" | 01:21 |
LjL | :| | 01:21 |
de-facto | hmm | 01:23 |
de-facto | why does it take 7 months to begin with production? | 01:31 |
LjL | de-facto, well their own vaccine isn't mRNA. i don't really know why, but it's probably a whole different chain | 01:32 |
de-facto | for sure its completely different, but i wonder why it takes more than half a year to start production, maybe it just is like that, yet i would like to understand where the bottleneck is with such a huge delay | 01:35 |
de-facto | getting and calibrate all their equipment etc but does it really take many months? | 01:36 |
de-facto | how about someone paying for 24/7 working? | 01:36 |
de-facto | i have to admit i dont know the real challenges with such production yet i would like to understand what holds them back for so long | 01:37 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +7761 cases (now 2.6 million) since 5 hours ago — France: +14255 cases (now 3.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +4739 cases (now 758310), +66 deaths (now 19253) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +3004 cases (now 960560) since 22 hours ago | 01:54 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: REGENERON REPORTS POSITIVE INTERIM DATA WITH REGEN-COV™ ANTIBODY COCKTAIL USED AS PASSIVE VACCINE TO PREVENT COVID-19 (83 votes) | https://investor.regeneron.com/news-releases/news-release-details/regeneron-reports-positive-interim-data-regen-covtm-antibody/ | https://redd.it/l5cvsj | 02:00 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>v<< well, that's how long it takes to ramp up an already tailored for vaccines fab to the specific (BNT) production process, it seems | 02:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>what holds them back for so long<< let's start with a very basic thing: training | 02:03 |
DocScrutinizer05 | transfer of knowhow | 02:03 |
DocScrutinizer05 | you can't speed that up by 24/7 working | 02:03 |
de-facto | why not? | 02:04 |
DocScrutinizer05 | you think you could clone yourself into 40, so you could learn a new language in one week? | 02:04 |
de-facto | i mean what needs the rest time in the night? | 02:04 |
DocScrutinizer05 | prolly the brain? | 02:05 |
DocScrutinizer05 | dang, this control key drives me nuts! | 02:07 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>"... with initial deliveries expected by August" << well, that's how long it takes to ramp up an already tailored for vaccines fab to the specific (BNT) production process, it seems | 02:07 |
de-facto | hmm so personnel then, but cant they do something to multiply the productivity of their already existing personnel (plus the one they might migrate or employ in addition) by spreading their working shifts over 24/7 overlapping timeslots and give them additional workers on hand that do the less difficult tasks under the supervision of the more skilled workers? | 02:07 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I guess they already did that | 02:08 |
de-facto | like a hierarchical pyramid by competence or such, multiplying each working power by some new employees in the lower competence classes (under supervision) | 02:08 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ this doesn't work. There are books about it | 02:09 |
DocScrutinizer05 | "The Plan" iirc | 02:10 |
DocScrutinizer05 | written by a senior industry manager | 02:10 |
de-facto | my question was: assuming their statement about it taking till August to ramp up production for BNT162b2 mRNA is already the fastest they can do it, what exactly is the bottleneck (and as a follow up, what can we do about that to improve speed)? | 02:10 |
DocScrutinizer05 | and my answer was that it quite likely inclides know how transfer and training | 02:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | and there's nothing we could come up with to speed that up that they didn't already think of | 02:12 |
de-facto | for sure that is one part of it, another probably to calibrate and validate or certify new machines etc | 02:12 |
de-facto | that last statement i am in doubt about | 02:12 |
DocScrutinizer05 | that can get expedited | 02:12 |
de-facto | how can we know that its guaranteed there is nothing we could come up with to speed up that process? | 02:13 |
DocScrutinizer05 | rather you need new machines which are built to order and somebody needs to again transfer the exact specs to the companies building them. etc pp | 02:14 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canadian casino mogul flies on a private plane, pretends to be a local hotel worker, and gets Moderna Covid-19 vaccine meant for indigenous people. → https://is.gd/Dkxdp8 | 02:14 |
de-facto | there are bottlenecks and limited resources hence a combined effort (such as multiple companies working together, federal funding, extending existing capacity, thinking about most efficient concepts to maximize personnel productivity etc) | 02:15 |
de-facto | maybe some concepts dont need so much highly qualified personnel and its more like a cost/investment/technical problem? | 02:16 |
DocScrutinizer05 | de-facto: I can know for me since I been there done that. I doubt we have a new discovered genius around here who has a brilliant new idea those professionals didn't already think of a 30 years ago | 02:16 |
de-facto | i mean such companies think about longterm investment and what they can afford to invest into, they also have to think about that they probably wont sell much of those vaccines in 10 years | 02:17 |
DocScrutinizer05 | project manager and process optimization are professions, those guys usually know their business | 02:17 |
de-facto | i really doubt they do everything possible to scale up production as much as possible (in terms of resources) | 02:18 |
DocScrutinizer05 | if they didn't, they'd get fired faster than you could suggest an improvement | 02:19 |
de-facto | i doubt that | 02:19 |
DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since it's very obvious that the big money is in next 9 months and not in a year or two | 02:19 |
de-facto | at some point its a bad investment for them and they risk ending up bankrupt if they invest everything into something that they have to assume will have sharply declining demand in some future time when the pandemic is largely under control | 02:20 |
DocScrutinizer05 | so as a boss you don't aorder one jackass to do this project, you hire McKenzie and assign the best of your current and retired staff to the project | 02:21 |
DocScrutinizer05 | and you throw money at it as much as it needs, you know it will pay back several magnitudes | 02:22 |
de-facto | again i doubt they are like "all in" on this | 02:22 |
DocScrutinizer05 | every day a million, a hundred millions... | 02:23 |
de-facto | maybe the startups are but not the ones with established markets and production caps | 02:23 |
DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, it's your privilege to doubt it. I just can tell you what I learned in 40 years industry | 02:23 |
de-facto | and i still dont know why it takes them so long | 02:24 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think telling you a third time will fix that | 02:25 |
LjL | harsh | 02:27 |
Brainstorm | New from Variants of SARS-CoV-2 on Wikipedia: Thorwald: /* Nomenclature */ italics: Nomenclature: italics ← Previous revision Revision as of 01:17, 27 January 2021 Line 11: Line 11: |+ SARS-CoV-2 corresponding nomenclatures This table is an adaptation and expansion of {{harvp|Alm et al.|loc=figure 1}}. |+ SARS-CoV-2 corresponding nomenclatures This [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xKhE7Z | 02:27 |
dTal | There's a limit to how much you can scale up without causing a collapse at the end of the run | 02:28 |
de-facto | due to what bottleneck woudl it collapse at the end? | 02:34 |
de-facto | id assume producing the mRNA itself is not the problem but rather getting it into LNPs and those into the vials | 02:35 |
de-facto | so the highly qualified personal would have to be employed in the mRNA production part at the "top" of the pyramid, id guess the real bottlenecks are more ant the base of it, closer to the end product | 02:38 |
de-facto | *personnel | 02:39 |
de-facto | and tbh any standardized industrial process highly dependent on personnel is poorly designed imho | 02:41 |
dTal | I think you misunderstood | 02:52 |
dTal | what I mean is we could convert the whole workforce to vaccine production and it would be a bad idea | 02:52 |
dTal | redirect all construction workers to building vaccine factories etc | 02:53 |
de-facto | i really doubt they are in such big personnel needs | 02:54 |
de-facto | i think its more like their supply chains and production lines | 02:54 |
de-facto | https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/ | 02:54 |
p1gasu | Johnson & Johnson is expected to announce results from its vaccine trial within days | 02:58 |
LjL | "It's not a commitment we have to Europe: it’s a best effort, we said we are going to make our best effort. The reason why we said that is because Europe at the time wanted to be supplied more or less at the same time as the UK, even though the contract was signed three months later. So we said, “ok, we're going to do our best, we’re going to try, but we cannot commit contractually because we are three months behind UK”. We knew it was | 02:59 |
LjL | a super stretch goal and we know it's a big issue, this pandemic. But our contract is not a contractual commitment. It's a best effort." | 02:59 |
p1gasu | think it will be >50% effective? | 02:59 |
LjL | de-facto, DocScrutinizer05: https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/ is interesting on the whole production process (although it's not about mRNA) | 02:59 |
de-facto | thanks why i linked it | 02:59 |
LjL | de-facto, ah sorry, i took it from the other channel and i was busy reading it | 03:00 |
LjL | p1gasu, yes, or there wouldn't be the kind of anticipation there is. how much more effective, no idea. i am a bit concerned about their side effects | 03:00 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Falkland Is.: +6 cases (now 41) since 6 days ago | 03:03 |
p1gasu | J&J vax has been having more adverse reactions than others? | 03:06 |
LjL | "The issue with the elderly data is not so much whether it works or not. It´s that we have today a limited amount of data in the older population. You have to think that the program we have today was run by Oxford, it was the Oxford program. And Oxford is an academy group. They´re very ethical, and very academic. So they didn´t want to vaccinate older people until they had accumulated a lot of safety data in the 18 to 55 group. They said it was n | 03:07 |
LjL | ot ethical to vaccinate old people until they had enough safety data in younger people. Other companies took this risk, went ahead and vaccinated older people faster or earlier. If you start earlier, you have more data. Essentially, because Oxford started vaccinating older people later, we don´t have a huge number of older people who have been vaccinated." | 03:07 |
LjL | p1gasu, i really cannot compare it with others, but i saw an amount of grade 3 ("severe") effects that i found a bit alarming. de-facto pointed out that no one actually abandoned the trial, they all got their second dose, so maybe they thought the side effects were worth it. but for fever, for example, "grade 3" mean 39°C to 40°C. after 40°C, it's grade 4 i.e. "life-threatening" | 03:08 |
DocScrutinizer05 | the problem with bringing up that type of fabs isn't "we need more workers no hit the nails in so the rails reach Denver in time for the event", it's the "ask Joe how he solved the problem of vibrations on the speedex transport tapes, those are probably the culprit why our yesterday's production was junk still, after we found the new LED lamps have a too high UV that we didn't have with the old brand" | 03:14 |
p1gasu | but thought J&J was a single injection | 03:16 |
de-facto | "So, even though no country has done so so far, it’s possible that some countries will say: we will not use the AZ vaccine in older people until we have the US data confirming that it is indeed to be used in older people." | 03:18 |
DocScrutinizer05 | much of the production for a vaccine are most likely cleanrooms. If you ever heard about those, you know they have very special problems | 03:18 |
LjL | p1gasu, that was Sanofi iirc | 03:18 |
LjL | p1gasu, but anyway they all have a double injection fallback in the trial | 03:18 |
de-facto | what US data is he referring to? | 03:19 |
LjL | de-facto, yeah, that's a sign to me that while maybe the 8% thing is bollocks, the fact that EMA might approve it only for <65 could be real | 03:19 |
LjL | de-facto, there is a phase 3 trial of it in the US too | 03:19 |
LjL | you can see all the trials on covidvax | 03:19 |
LjL | %vaccine astrazeneca | 03:19 |
Brainstorm | LjL, AZD 1222 is a Non-replicating viral vector vaccine developed in UK by Oxford University + AstraZeneca + Cobra Biologics + Oxford Biomedica + Merck KGaA + Halix BV + Pall Corporation + SGS + India's Serum Institute + Catalent Biologics + CSL Limited, which began its distribution on date January 2021 → https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/OxfordUni | 03:19 |
p1gasu | LjL, well if J&J vax has high efficacy, it may help solve the double dose problems and add capacity | 03:20 |
de-facto | https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04516746 | 03:21 |
LjL | %vax janssen | 03:21 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Ad26 alone or with MVA boost is a Non-replicating viral vector vaccine developed in Belgium + USA by Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) + Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center (Harvard Medical School) + Emergent BioSolutions + Catalent, which began its testing on humans on date Aug 11 with 60000 healthy volunteers aged 18+ → https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/Janssen | 03:21 |
drfauci | what is the reason schools were closed in the u.s.? i don't understand. i saw this thing that said kids aren't even in that much danger from covid-19. is that true? | 03:21 |
DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: I heard they backed up their data at EMA with a new study on 2000 >65, most of them >75. To avoid that <65_only contraint in approval | 03:21 |
LjL | p1gasu, you are right, it's (at least ideally) single-dose | 03:21 |
de-facto | "Ages Eligible for Study: 18 Years to 130 Years " | 03:22 |
DocScrutinizer05 | constraint even | 03:22 |
LjL | drfauci, they may not be in much danger if they get sick, but 1) evidence on whether they can easily pass it on to adults is unclear, with some contradictory results 2) there's a lot of things that revolve *around* school that aren't just the kids, like transport | 03:22 |
LjL | de-facto, damn, my 135 year old gran won't be able to participate :( | 03:23 |
drfauci | LjL, did anyone ever do any calculations to figure out how many lives would be saved? | 03:23 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, we'll see when EMA approves it, i guess. or we won't, since the EMA doesn't seem to publish good, detailed reports like the FDA or the MHRA :\ | 03:23 |
DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 03:24 |
DocScrutinizer05 | sucks | 03:24 |
LjL | drfauci, that's an incredibly difficult calculation to make. there was a study that looked at various non-pharmaceutical interventions, and their correlation with curves in various countries, and they didn't find statistical significance for anything except closing schools, and banning large events | 03:24 |
DocScrutinizer05 | did AZ publish proper data meanwhile? | 03:24 |
drfauci | LjL, thanks. ...do you remember the name of it? | 03:26 |
DocScrutinizer05 | .title https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/12/15/science.abd9338 | 03:27 |
DocScrutinizer05 | https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/early/2020/12/15/science.abd9338/F2.large.jpg | 03:27 |
Brainstorm | DocScrutinizer05: From science.sciencemag.org: Inferring the effectiveness of government interventions against COVID-19 | Science | 03:27 |
LjL | drfauci, not the name, but i may be able to dig it up | 03:27 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +211 cases (now 3.7 million) since 8 hours ago | 03:27 |
drfauci | LjL, brainstorm found it | 03:29 |
LjL | drfauci, https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30785-4/fulltext | 03:29 |
drfauci | oh sorry nm | 03:30 |
LjL | oh | 03:30 |
LjL | two different things | 03:30 |
LjL | i think | 03:30 |
LjL | well, you get two for the price of one | 03:30 |
de-facto | "In our case, the trial we're talking about was conducted by Oxford University. We AZ are conducting the US trial, which we think is going to be ready very soon." | 03:31 |
DocScrutinizer05 | https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/early/2020/12/15/science.abd9338/F2.large.jpg is golden | 03:32 |
de-facto | they also seem to do studies on more delay between doses, so thats fine if they proceed with studies to confirm that, imho until we have those results we should stick to the approved schema with results available today | 03:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | also note which ones have a CI even spreading into the _negative_ range | 03:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | "some businesses closed" and "additional stay-at-home-orders" have potential to even make matters worse | 03:35 |
DocScrutinizer05 | while schools are #2 after gatherings>10 | 03:36 |
DocScrutinizer05 | a pity they don't have "wearing-masking" | 03:37 |
de-facto | very interesting they are also investigating their efficiency against the SA variants, expecting results very soon | 03:37 |
LjL | de-facto, wow he actually says "I think the UK one-dose strategy is absolutely the right way to go, at least for our vaccine." | 03:38 |
LjL | that was unexpected | 03:38 |
LjL | Pfizer definitely doesn't agree, do they | 03:38 |
DocScrutinizer05 | which vaccine? for AZ it is, for mRNA it's not | 03:38 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, yes AZ. why is it? | 03:39 |
DocScrutinizer05 | seems the vactor approach benefits from late 2nd shot | 03:39 |
DocScrutinizer05 | vector* | 03:39 |
DocScrutinizer05 | related to immune system response to vector virus | 03:39 |
DocScrutinizer05 | pretty much same effect like "better with first shot only 50%" | 03:40 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I huess | 03:40 |
DocScrutinizer05 | guess* | 03:40 |
LjL | "First of all, we believe that the efficacy of one dose is sufficient: 100 percent protection against severe disease and hospitalisation" ← when they say that, i always wonder, with the small numbers (unless they have much bigger numbers now) of people who actually get the infection after being vaccinated (not placebo), is there really enough confidence to say there will be NO severe cases? like, i know AZ is 70%, but take a 95% effective vaccine, an | 03:40 |
LjL | d imagine they publish interim data after 100 get COVID: roughly speaking, it will be only 5 of the ones who've taken the vaccine. now, only LESS than one patient out of 5 (or just about 1/5) is usually severe. so you can't really say anything about it | 03:40 |
de-facto | very interesting interview with a lot of questions covered we discussed here | 03:40 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add studies about effectiveness of non-pharmaceutical intervention → https://is.gd/FoBWow | 03:42 |
LjL | "Finally, the J&J vaccine with Adenoviral vector also are performing studies on a two-month interval. And J&J has the same technology as ours." | 03:42 |
LjL | "And it may be like flu, we´ll have to produce a new vaccine every couple of years or something" | 03:43 |
LjL | i would like to show this article to my parents but it's not clear to me if they have a version in italian | 03:44 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add interview with AstraZeneca CEO → https://is.gd/RjEja2 | 03:54 |
Brainstorm | New from Variants of SARS-CoV-2 on Wikipedia: ScrupulousScribe: /* New Variant Assessment Platform */: New Variant Assessment Platform ← Previous revision Revision as of 03:02, 27 January 2021 Line 241: Line 241: == New Variant Assessment Platform == == New Variant Assessment Platform == − As of January 26 2021, the British government said it would [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xKhE7Z | 04:07 |
LjL | "On January 26 2021, the British government said it would share its genomic sequencing capabilities with other countries in order to increase the genomic sequencing rate and trace new variants.[66]" | 04:12 |
LjL | that would sure help. strange it's coming from the UK though which is being pretty EU-hostile now in general | 04:13 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Wuhan lab scientist published paper on lab leak caused by rats → https://is.gd/LC8X7l | 04:31 |
Brainstorm | Updates for New Zealand: +5 cases (now 2295) since a day ago | 04:42 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: South Korea reports big jump in COVID-19 cases on outbreaks in Christian schools → https://is.gd/sOa0uz | 04:44 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Saudi Arabia in talks with vaccine companies to provide vaccines to low-income countries such as Yemen and countries in Africa → https://is.gd/2bj3Fm | 04:56 |
drfauci | question about this table. it says the reduction in R (number of people infected by an infected person after some amount of time (f(time)=R) is .04 28 days after closing schools but in the Findings/Abstract at the top they say R can be reduced by 3-24% by introducing various NPIs (Non-pharmaceutical interventions; ways of preventing the spread) and | 05:02 |
drfauci | that school closing offer the most significant decrease in R. I only see 4% reduction in R after 28 days | 05:02 |
drfauci | Non-pharmaceutical interventions | 05:02 |
drfauci | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30785-4/fulltext#tbl1 | 05:02 |
drfauci | are they talking about the opposite ends of the confidence interval? i dont see where the 40% comes from. to me it looks like 4% | 05:05 |
drfauci | *it's .04 lower | 05:07 |
drfauci | never mind the lat 5 things i said. too many typos | 05:07 |
drfauci | LAST | 05:07 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Nicolas Maduro’s ‘miracle’ treatment for COVID-19 draws skeptics → https://is.gd/hrxxJm | 05:08 |
de-facto | Relaxation of closing schools after day 28 resulted in ratio of R going to 1.24 hence 24% more than before | 05:10 |
LjL | drfauci, where do you see that .04? | 05:11 |
drfauci | LjL, first row, .89-.85 | 05:11 |
drfauci | de-facto oh, well its kind of obvious when you just point it out like that. thanks. | 05:12 |
drfauci | ....why is R higher at the start of relaxation than 28 days after introduction? | 05:13 |
LjL | drfauci, well you also have to look at the increase after it was lifted, which is higher. the place where i see 40% is "A modelling study from China showed that school closure alone could not interrupt transmission, but it could potentially reduce peak incidence by 40–60% and delay the epidemic of COVID-19." which seems to be referencing a different study | 05:13 |
drfauci | LjL, I have confused myself. Sorry. I think I made 40% up. | 05:14 |
drfauci | I'm usually not so scatterbrained | 05:15 |
LjL | drfauci, i don't know why, these studies have a lot of noise in the signal. it's not like countries decided, okay, you do the school closure, i do the workplace closure, this one does the stay-at-home orders, etc... | 05:15 |
LjL | they enacted several measures at overlapping times, so "it's complicated" | 05:15 |
drfauci | yeah, i get that. fun math problem if all the data were there in perfect form | 05:16 |
drfauci | okay what about the ranges (I assume they are ranges). They seem to get bigger as time goes on. For example, on the first row it's (0·82–0·97) on day 7 and (0·66–1·10) on day 28. They all seem to be like that. So they keep it at a 95% CI but the "solution space" gets wider? | 05:18 |
LjL | i don't know, but in most cases, they do admit that their confidence intervals don't allow them to rearch statistical significance on most of the interventions | 05:20 |
LjL | the matrix bridge failing is noisier than the average netsplit | 05:21 |
drfauci | LjL, allright, thanks for your help! I appreciate it. | 05:21 |
raccoon_dog | Why can't it do *.net *.split like the others. | 05:24 |
raccoon_dog | That's so annoying; Jesus. | 05:25 |
de-facto | since its changes over reproduction correlated to specific NPI over many countries and scenarios the CI opens due to different rates of change id assume | 05:25 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, because it's not actually a netsplit | 05:25 |
raccoon_dog | I know. It's the freenode-Matrix bridge collapsing. | 05:25 |
raccoon_dog | Still. | 05:25 |
LjL | well to the server it's just clients timing out | 05:25 |
raccoon_dog | Right. | 05:25 |
LjL | anyway the bridge has a lot of rough edges | 05:25 |
raccoon_dog | Apparently. lol | 05:26 |
de-facto | thats why i hide join/parts in my client for this channel | 05:26 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Oklahoma trying to return its $2m stockpile of hydroxychloroquine (10065 votes) | https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/oklahoma-trying-to-return-its-2m-stockpile-of-hydroxychloroquine/ | https://redd.it/l5p83v | 05:26 |
de-facto | lol | 05:26 |
gigasu_shida | haha wow | 05:33 |
gigasu_shida | at least they're trying. that's above average government effort | 05:33 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Peru orders total lockdown across 10 states as second wave bites → https://is.gd/C2B7DI | 05:48 |
LjL | What an unholy mess | 06:01 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: UK to bring in hotel quarantine for highest-risk arrivals → https://is.gd/shbEnJ | 06:10 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +1784 cases (now 696642), +65 deaths (now 20879) since 23 hours ago | 06:46 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Hong Kong’s first COVID-19 lockdown exposes deep-rooted inequality → https://is.gd/Tv90yX | 06:47 |
Brainstorm | New preprint: Evaluation of six commercial SARS-CoV-2 Enzyme-Linked Immunosorbent assays for clinical testing and serosurveillance. by Suellen R Nicholson et al, made available as preprint on 2021-01-26 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2021.01.21.21250249 [... want %more?] | 06:59 |
zutt | %cases ireland | 06:59 |
Brainstorm | zutt: In Ireland, there have been 189851 confirmed cases (3.9% of the population) and 3066 deaths (1.6% of cases) as of 10 hours ago. 3.0 million tests were performed (6.4% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 11.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Ireland for time series data. | 06:59 |
zutt | 1% to 11.5%.. thats quite the range o.o | 07:00 |
zutt | %cases israel | 07:00 |
Brainstorm | zutt: In Israel, there have been 613578 confirmed cases (6.7% of the population) and 4512 deaths (0.7% of cases) as of 6 hours ago. 10.2 million tests were performed (6.0% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.8% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 0.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Israel for time series data. | 07:00 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Unknown, Colombia: +12519 cases (now 13606), +381 deaths (now 381) since 6 months ago — France: +23177 cases (now 3.1 million), +684 deaths (now 74178) since 23 hours ago — Sevastopol, Ukraine: +102 cases (now 9207), +5 deaths (now 371) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +5253 cases (now 3.7 million), +98 deaths (now 100260) since 12 hours ago | 07:11 |
Brainstorm | New from Il Sole 24 Ore: I ritardi fanno slittare il vaccino di massa. Immunità di gregge non prima del 2022: Entro marzo, a meno di nuove sorprese, avremo a disposizione solo 14 milioni di dosi, un numero sufficiente per concludere le immunizzazioni di 2 milioni di operatori sanitari e ospiti delle Rsa e far partire le attese vaccinazioni di 4,4 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/9DbyL5 | 07:24 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Wealthy couple chartered a plane to the Yukon, took vaccines doses meant for Indigenous elders, authorities said → https://is.gd/W0xv7B | 07:36 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: COVID-19 Cases and Transmission in 17 K–12 Schools — Wood County, Wisconsin, August 31–November 29, 2020 (80 votes) | https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e3.htm | https://redd.it/l5osd5 | 07:57 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: UN calls on Israel to provide Palestinians with coronavirus vaccines → https://is.gd/KzP30x | 08:37 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: A single intranasal dose of chimpanzee adenovirus-vectored vaccine protects against SARS-CoV-2 infection in rhesus macaques (82 votes) | https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.26.428251v1 | https://redd.it/l5winn | 08:51 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | January 27, 2021: The WHO pages contain up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. → https://is.gd/2suQsG | 09:34 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Wealthy countries ‘hoarding’ vaccines, says South Africa’s president → https://is.gd/QVqaRq | 09:57 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Too many Covid-19 patients face death alone. Vaccinated volunteers could change that: We need an army of vaccinated volunteers to support patients and be a conduit for their families, to help them through the worst days — sometimes the last days —… → https://is.gd/HlN8ST | 10:46 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +165 deaths (now 19403) since 21 hours ago | 10:55 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Auschwitz survivors mark anniversary online amid pandemic → https://is.gd/5h2aEb | 10:58 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: UK to impose hotel quarantine for returning Britons: British citizens returning home from roughly 30 countries deemed at "high risk" from new coronavirus variants could soon have to quarantine in hotels, reports said on Wednesday. → https://is.gd/wk4pW8 | 11:48 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Davos: Post-COVID recovery not baked in → https://is.gd/xGOTRt | 12:24 |
Brainstorm | New from Scientific American: COVID-Overwhelmed Hospitals Strain Staff and Hope to Avoid Rationing Care: A healthcare worker comforts a patient in the Covid-19 ward at United Memorial Medical Center in Houston, Texas on December 4, 2020. → https://is.gd/R8GM9j | 12:48 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: EU official: AstraZeneca pulls out of vaccine delivery talks → https://is.gd/I3Lz2A | 13:01 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: COVID-19: WHO races to develop vaccination card → https://is.gd/Dbolf8 | 13:13 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +10641 cases (now 2.2 million) since 22 hours ago | 13:30 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid linked to risk of mental illness and brain disorder, study suggests. A study of more than 200,000 COVID-19 patients found that one in eight people are diagnosed with their first psychiatric or neurological illness within six months of infection. → https://is.gd/zAeFwo | 13:37 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: 'Poor decisions' to blame for UK death toll, scientists say → https://is.gd/SzKLR0 | 13:50 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Engineering and artificial intelligence combine to safeguard patients' lives: Spurred by the demands of the COVID-19 pandemic, researchers at Princeton and Google are applying mechanical engineering and artificial intelligence in an effort to increase the availability and effectiveness of ventilation treatments worldwide. → https://is.gd/sy0eGW | 14:15 |
dTal | Bomb scare at Wockhardt in Wrexham, which is where Astra Zeneca is put into vials | 14:19 |
dTal | Controlled explosion in 10 minutes | 14:19 |
dTal | https://imgur.com/a/orvgCSf | 14:25 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Cough, fatigue, sore throat 'more common' in new variant → https://is.gd/3j5cgx | 14:49 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Explosive Specialists Called in to UK Plant Where AstraZeneca Jabs Are Produced, Report Says → https://is.gd/NymFnU | 15:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | dTal: such damn idiots :-/ | 15:10 |
dTal | how so | 15:10 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>Bomb scare<< | 15:10 |
dTal | yeah, a "suspicious package" | 15:10 |
DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, not confirmed yet | 15:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | well, I would not feel surprised, given the idiocy in netherlands | 15:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | earthquakes in Granada are either too small or too far out of the bot monitoring? | 15:14 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Veterinary medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Vaxxitek HVT+IBD, Infectious bursal disease and Marek's disease vaccine (live recombinant), Date of authorisation: 09/08/2002, Revision: 13, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/3Rs5Vo | 15:25 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Vaccine 2.0: Moderna and other companies plan tweaks that would protect against new coronavirus mutations (87 votes) | https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/01/vaccine-20-moderna-and-other-companies-plan-tweaks-would-protect-against-new | https://redd.it/l63mq9 | 15:48 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: NHS will prioritise four most at-risk groups for second doses, says Stevens: The NHS will prioritise giving second doses of covid-19 vaccine to over 70s, clinically extremely vulnerable people, and frontline health workers before it starts vaccinating other at-risk groups,... → https://is.gd/Cdhygb | 15:48 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Those Covid-19 variants? ‘Don’t worry yet,’ vaccine expert says: A vaccine expert addresses a question on everyone’s mind: How worried should we be about new variants of the virus that causes Covid-19? → https://is.gd/oopf2f | 16:11 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Cuba: +825 cases (now 23439), +4 deaths (now 204) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +4468 cases (now 964447), +74 deaths (now 13746) since 19 hours ago | 17:27 |
Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Repurposed Approved Therapies for Outpatient Treatment of Patients With Early-Onset COVID-19 and Mild Symptoms → https://is.gd/KEtDpg | 17:41 |
sully42 | sup jacklsw | 18:10 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +25308 cases (now 3.7 million), +1725 deaths (now 101887) since 23 hours ago | 18:16 |
snake | hi, is hygeine possible? | 18:28 |
snake | i go to mcdonalds, pay with a card, their hand touches my card, i touch my card, which i put into my wallet with my hands | 18:28 |
snake | next they give me the bag, i touch the bag, and i leave | 18:29 |
snake | im not gonna even talk about the door handles, car steering wheel etc | 18:29 |
snake | im home now, i wash my hands, grab the bag (which was touched earlier before i washed my hands). now they're dirty again | 18:29 |
bin_bash | 1) hygiene is possible | 18:30 |
bin_bash | idk how you would think it isn't possible | 18:30 |
bin_bash | snake: did you consider wiping down the bag? | 18:30 |
snake | ok i wipe the bag, wash my hands again, and reach into the bag to grab my food | 18:31 |
snake | food is wrapped, 2-3 workers touched the food and the wrappers before i did | 18:31 |
snake | now what | 18:31 |
snake | i've washed my hands at least twice and they're still dirty :/ | 18:31 |
snake | i also washed the bag | 18:33 |
snake | not only am i trying my best and still failing, but now i have ocd, a psychiatric disorder | 18:34 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +2222 cases (now 517705) since 19 hours ago — Canada: +4105 cases (now 760211) since 23 hours ago | 18:47 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +15191 cases (now 2.5 million), +467 deaths (now 86889) since 22 hours ago | 19:18 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: There's 'a path forward' to reopening schools, CDC officials say: (HealthDay)—With most in-person classes curtailed or canceled in schools across the United States since last spring, kids and their parents have had a really tough year. → https://is.gd/TTsD5r | 19:30 |
LjL | i'm pretty annoyed that in the official data in Italy they switched from listing daily PCR tests to daily tests including quick tests | 19:46 |
LjL | "suddenly" (i mean since some time, it's not a new thing, i'm just venting on it now) the positive rate went down from >10% to ~5% | 19:46 |
LjL | so people are happier, and so i have a harder time to compare things | 19:46 |
bin_bash | snake: well if you don't trust the restaurant to handle things properly, don't eat ther.e | 19:51 |
bin_bash | I don't eat at fast food places now for this reason | 19:52 |
snake | bin_bash, i see | 20:00 |
snake | guess i'll die | 20:00 |
snake | lol | 20:00 |
snake | (i hate cooking enough that i will just wash my hands once and try not to think too much about the germs) | 20:01 |
bin_bash | snake: if you think their hands were dirty when they touched the food wrappers, why would their hands be clean when they make the food? | 20:01 |
snake | bin_bash, exactly | 20:02 |
bin_bash | So then why would you eat the food? | 20:02 |
snake | well i think its likely they might be unclean | 20:02 |
snake | bin_bash, i hate cooking | 20:02 |
bin_bash | is mcdonalds the only thing? | 20:02 |
snake | and i need to eat | 20:02 |
snake | well there are other fast food places | 20:02 |
snake | and resturaunts | 20:02 |
snake | same thing really | 20:02 |
bin_bash | i tend to trust some restaurants to have good hygiene | 20:03 |
bin_bash | i dont trust fast food to though | 20:03 |
snake | i see | 20:04 |
bin_bash | usually what I do is when the food arrives I wipe down the bad and anything the delivery person might have touched (any drink cups or whatnot) then i wash my hands, then i open the bag, then i wash my hands again, and then i take the food containers out | 20:04 |
snake | bin_bash, i washed my hands according to the rules for the first few weeks that i worked there, but eventually i just stopped caring, i wore gloves when i tocuhed food though, but not wrapped food and bags | 20:04 |
bin_bash | if i don't trust a place to handle the food containers properly then I don't eat there and it's the delivery drivers Im more concerned about | 20:04 |
snake | of course there wasnt a pandemic at the time, and my hands were relatively clean | 20:04 |
bin_bash | right, pre-pandemic I was also not as concerned | 20:05 |
snake | ok wash the bag, wash the wrapper, wash hands, then eat the food | 20:05 |
bin_bash | i just use like a disinfecting wipe | 20:06 |
snake | wash the disinfecting wipes, got it | 20:06 |
bin_bash | lol | 20:06 |
snake | then wash me hands 3 more times | 20:06 |
snake | for good luck | 20:06 |
bin_bash | then sacrifice a virgin | 20:06 |
bin_bash | jk | 20:06 |
snake | lol | 20:06 |
bin_bash | but seriously, i think washing the bag would be an issue if it's paper | 20:06 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Charities funding plea for Covid-19 bereavement support → https://is.gd/5URksU | 20:06 |
bin_bash | i just give it a wipe and throw it away | 20:06 |
snake | i just put my whole bag in the dishwasher and ran it through | 20:07 |
bin_bash | hahahaha | 20:07 |
bin_bash | delicious sous vide mcdonalds! now with essence of detergent | 20:07 |
bin_bash | i empathise with you though snake i've got bad anxiety with some obsessive tendencies as well | 20:08 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +40285 cases (now 2.7 million), +492 deaths (now 57291) since 23 hours ago | 20:08 |
bin_bash | snake: on the upside as far as i know there havent been any documented cases of food-borne covid and surface transmission is fairly low so the food itself should be ok | 20:09 |
snake | nice thats good | 20:09 |
bin_bash | plus each individual restaurant is different. some mcdonalds are better or worse than others | 20:10 |
bin_bash | the one by you could be good, and youd know better than me whether it;s clean or not | 20:10 |
snake | not sure anymore cause the turnover is so high | 20:10 |
bin_bash | yeah fair | 20:11 |
bin_bash | well, you could always stop in and kind of observe | 20:11 |
bin_bash | ask people honestly | 20:11 |
bin_bash | be like "i used to work here so level with me... are yall following guideliens? would you eat food from here as a customer?" | 20:11 |
snake | when do i start washing them | 20:12 |
bin_bash | washing hat | 20:12 |
bin_bash | what** | 20:12 |
snake | the workers | 20:12 |
bin_bash | lolol | 20:12 |
bin_bash | immediately, just take a garden hose | 20:12 |
bin_bash | :P | 20:12 |
snake | xD | 20:12 |
bin_bash | "It looks a little dirty so lemme help" *SPRAY VIOLENTLY* | 20:13 |
bin_bash | "ah much better. i'll have a #1." | 20:13 |
snake | lol | 20:13 |
DocScrutinizer05 | snake: ((hygiene)) maybe carefully unpack food and place it on a clean plate, then wash your hands and place the plate into microwave to re-heat and sterilize it? | 20:36 |
DocScrutinizer05 | or just have a 250g vodka with your meal, sterilizing each bite in mouth ;-D | 20:37 |
DocScrutinizer05 | wait, that might as well kill you long term | 20:38 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly prefer that stuff like chucken chunks that get handled with a gripping pliers, and I prefer those fast food restaurants where I see the preparation process from counter | 20:51 |
DocScrutinizer05 | chicken, even | 20:51 |
DocScrutinizer05 | or fries. when I see the dude preparing it is wearing those thin transparent one-time gloves, I *might* enjoy a burger too | 20:54 |
DocScrutinizer05 | if not, I came to the conclusion I rather wouldn't want to eat there, no matter if corona or not | 20:54 |
DocScrutinizer05 | burger eating procedure: carefully unfold the wrapper paper and place burger on paper on table. sterilize hands, grab burger without paper for eating | 20:56 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I think yes, hygiene _is_ possible | 20:57 |
DocScrutinizer05 | if in doubt, watch a few episodes of "Monk" ;-D | 20:58 |
Brainstorm | Updates for France: +322 deaths (now 74271) since 23 hours ago | 21:04 |
de-facto | when i unpack stuff i unpack the exterior without touching the internals at all (letting them fall out or such), then i go wash my hands and maybe do same procedure with each internal of a package again | 21:10 |
de-facto | when i order pizza i just preheat the oven to very high and bake it again for short time | 21:14 |
de-facto | when it begins to change color i feel like virions are damaged enough that i might eat them without worries, but maybe its just psychology | 21:15 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ | 21:24 |
DocScrutinizer05 | can't find that Monk|Shalhoub video clip where he elaborates on proper anti-corona measures | 21:25 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Sick kids in class, teachers punished for speaking out: Over 780 COVID-19 complaints reveal schools ignoring safety (10099 votes) | https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2021/01/27/biden-covid-19-plan-looks-safety-students-teachers-defy-rules/4257689001/ | https://redd.it/l62qgt | 21:32 |
Brainstorm | New from ProPublica: The Government Donald Trump Left Behind: by Chris Morran ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re published. Donald Trump was elected president in 2016 following a campaign of pledges to build a wall along the border with Mexico, repeal and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/tfeoXo | 21:50 |
blkshp | ooh i've been offered a random free test | 22:04 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +55 deaths (now 9259) since 23 hours ago | 22:31 |
duckgoose | nO wORsE ThAn ThE FlU | 22:49 |
Brainstorm | Updates for UAE: +3939 cases (now 289086), +6 deaths (now 811) since a day ago — Canada: +4935 cases (now 761662) since 23 hours ago | 23:14 |
duckgoose | this channel is depressing | 23:17 |
LjL | I mean, if he thought it would be partyland... | 23:52 |
raccoon_dog | It is depressing, but you kind of know that going in. | 23:52 |
raccoon_dog | It's the nature of the beast. | 23:52 |
LjL | I love those who feel the need to make a comment like that before leaving a channel. And it's not like he came on freenode yesterday | 23:52 |
qkall | ignorance is bliss | 23:52 |
LjL | Anyway, here's the daily-thing-that-will-anger de-facto | 23:53 |
LjL | 9,99Brainstorm:99,99 New99,99 from r/WorldNews:99,99 worldnews:99,99 Study finds virus cases in Japan surged after 'Go To travel' campaign - The Mainichi → https://is.gd/em1MjX | 23:53 |
deego | reality is depressing | 23:53 |
dzho | so I sort of forgot about this channel, even though I've been idling | 23:55 |
dzho | LjL: I'm wondering if you took a critical look at the New York state transmission figures, or know of a good resource for that. | 23:55 |
dzho | particularly, far and away they show the biggest venue in which transmission occurred was small in-home gatherings. | 23:56 |
dzho | what I can't quite tease out is whether that is meant to be exclusively interhousehold gatherings, or if it includes transmission occurring amongst those within the same household | 23:57 |
dzho | as in, one member gets it, comes home, infects everyone else. | 23:57 |
dzho | because those are very different situations in terms of policy and the feasibility of intervention | 23:58 |
dzho | and if same-household transmission isn't included in those figures, one wonders how they compare | 23:58 |
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