libera/##covid-19/ Tuesday, 2021-02-02

DocScrutinizer05Arsanerit: how does epigenetics come in ?00:00
ArsaneritDocScrutinizer05: In me not understanding it either.00:01
ArsaneritmRNA does not change ones DNA but epigenetics does appear to affect descendents based on what happens during life of ancestors, such as that children and grandchildren of women pregnant during Dutch famine 1944/1945 are more likely to be obese than others; I have no clue if this has anything to do with mRNA not altering DNA.00:03
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: COVID-19 rarely spreads through surfaces. So why are we still deep cleaning? (89 votes) | https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4 | https://redd.it/laeo9200:04
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 1st vaccine doses arrive in South Africa amid variant concerns → https://is.gd/ALU3bH00:13
BrainstormNew from The Lancet (Online): [Correspondence] COVID-19 vaccine research and the trouble with clinical equipoise: More than 1·8 million lives have been lost due to COVID-19. Two frontrunner vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech promise some relief, with data suggesting 95% efficacy,1 and have been granted emergency use authorisations in several countries. → https://is.gd/0OlQPF00:38
DocScrutinizer05Arsanerit: yeah, epigenetics are weird, all that "intelligence" based on methylization. Anyway unrelated to mRNA00:47
BrainstormNew preprint: Aptamers for Detection and Diagnostics (ADD) is a proposed mobile app acquiring optical data from conjugated quantum nanodots to identify molecules indicating presence of SARS-CoV-2 virus: Why public health and healthcare need smartphone sensors as a platform for early detection and prevention by Shoumen Datta et al, made available as preprint on 2021-02-01 at [... want %more?]01:04
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: OSU genetic sequencing detects mutant strains of COVID-19 in multiple Oregon locations → https://is.gd/0aHoJ501:27
BrainstormUpdates for Guernsey: +46 cases (now 585) since a day ago — France: +11791 cases (now 3.2 million), +455 deaths (now 76512) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +3452 cases (now 986871), +33 deaths (now 14067) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +36 deaths (now 9449) since 9 hours ago01:29
LjLbin_bash, ping in case you're interested... above CoronaBot posted something about fomite transmission. i gave it a read, it doesn't mention the variants (honestly i don't think it has been studied at all wrt the variants), but it's on the general subject01:38
bin_bashLjL: thanks 01:43
bin_bashLjL: this reads similarly to a commentary I read in a journal (the lancet maybe?) a few months ago about how fomite transmission was exaggerated and the lab experiments were in perfect conditions01:45
LjLbin_bash, it hasn't convinced me to stop sanitizing things (or my hands), though :P01:46
LjLi still stand by the cautionary principle... they may also say that a mask outdoors doesn't help much because by far the majority of infections happen indoors. well, is that really true? what if it's very biased by the fact that those are the infections they can *spot*, and others remain unclear?01:46
LjLthe issue is moot here, since wearing a mask is mandatory outdoors and indoors, so i would simply be violating the law if i didn't wear it. but... i'd wear it anyway01:47
bin_bashsame, i still wipe everything down01:47
bin_bashidc if it makes me paranoid01:47
bin_bashthat's what ive wondered too... re: infections they spot01:48
bin_bashidk how well contact tracing has worked there, but like there are plenty of ways people get infected and it's not traced to any specific thing01:48
bin_bashthat university of wisconsin study is interesting01:48
bin_bashbut yeah... unethical to do with this virus 01:49
bin_bashwhat about death row inmates who agree to it01:49
bin_bashis that still unethical?01:49
bin_bashregarding the new variants, if they do bind to cells more easily, it could mean that fomite transmission is more likely, albeit still small in comparison01:51
LjLbin_bash, well, let's say fomite transmission is unlikely because it's very rare that you get enough virus concentration to actually trigger an infection, while it's much easier if someone spits droplets at you01:53
LjLin that case, a variant that simply lowers the minimum necessary virus concentration could make fomite transmission comparatively more common01:54
LjL(i know that "virus concentration" or "viral load" isn't an on/off thing, it's probabilities, but still, it's often treated as a threshold for convenience)01:54
bin_bashLjL: yep that's my thought process on it as well01:57
bin_bashand you have idiotic people around here wearing no maks or cloth masks with vents or the mask under their nose 01:57
LjLnot just there, rest assured01:58
LjL"mask under nose" seems to be a worldwide phenomenon01:58
bin_bashyeah =.01:58
bin_bash=/01:58
bin_bashor constantly pulling it up or adjusting it01:58
bin_bashcuz it doesnt fit01:59
bin_bash*sigh*01:59
DocScrutinizer05LjL: https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy;Germany&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&miscType=Reff&leftTrim=300&miscPeriod=7&legacy=no   yeah, why would anybody worry with ending lockdown in Italy :-S02:03
Butterfly^https://www.reddit.com/r/Rakingthemuck/02:07
LjLit's as if every time we remove every memory of past events02:07
LjLno more Codogno, no more Bergamo, no more anything02:07
LjLthey just tell us to "still be careful, even though the lockdown is ended" - yeah right02:07
LjLthat's totally the message people will get02:08
DocScrutinizer05/o\02:08
LjLButterfly^, hmm?02:08
DocScrutinizer05LjL: I dunn'o maybe your public health offices' t&c teams do a much much better job than ours? then it's maybe still ok? (not really!)02:11
LjLDocScrutinizer05, i've seen footage of people rushing to get their drink even *before* the restrictions were officially lifted (i.e. last sunday)02:13
LjLcrowds, you know02:13
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Early U.S. data indicates Black and Hispanic Americans lagging in COVID-19 vaccinations → https://is.gd/sgYeR602:14
LjLmy mom was mad today because she heard someone... not sure if on TV or on her Facebook (sigh) saying "oh at least I'll get to drink my espresso at the cafe again, finally!"02:15
LjLbecause clearly that's the important thing, being able to drink the espresso that this person was drinking *anyway*, just, in the cafe instead of outside02:15
BrainstormUpdates for Botswana: +1445 cases (now 22738), +14 deaths (now 148) since 4 days ago02:19
DocScrutinizer05*headdesk*02:22
DocScrutinizer05so much, btw, for de-facto's suggested worldwide coordination02:24
DocScrutinizer05we can't even coordinate a 17 federal states here02:24
DocScrutinizer05and EU coordination is a laugh, or really a cry02:25
LjLwe can't even... govern02:25
LjLtomorrow we should, theoretically, get some finalization on whether we go to elections, or some strange other government forms02:25
LjLi'm not sure right now the government even *could* suspend the lockdown lifting02:26
DocScrutinizer05it's upty+1th gvmnt02:26
LjLafter a PM resigns, the rule is that the government can only "handle matters of ordinary administration"02:26
LjLDocScrutinizer05, it'd be the third government that Conte leads, if Conte still leads it02:26
LjLit's called "Conte ter" here becuse ter means "thrice" in Latin and we love Latin when we have nothing else left to love02:27
DocScrutinizer05v.21ter02:28
LjLlet's call it v.21ter-prealpha for now, tomorrow we'll see02:28
DocScrutinizer05:-) took a while but I finally learned it back when modems were a thing02:28
DocScrutinizer05or was it V.27ter?02:29
LjLgoogle tells me v.27ter02:29
LjLbut it was current well before i knew what a modem was :P02:29
DocScrutinizer05ITU-T Rec. V.27 ter (10/84) 4800/2400 bits per second modem ...   yup02:31
LjLi got on the internet with a 33.6kbps modem so definitely before my time02:32
DocScrutinizer05there was also V.32bis02:32
DocScrutinizer05and V.34bis02:33
DocScrutinizer05https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ITU-T_V-series_recommendations02:33
DocScrutinizer05BFC what V.32terbo was supposed to mean02:34
DocScrutinizer05NFC even02:34
LjLunlike ter, terbo is definitely not Latin for anything!02:36
dTalI bought my first ever USB stick in 2006. It cost 80 dollars and held 4 gigabytes.03:07
dTalThis week, I spent 90 GBP on a microSD card. It holds 512GB.03:08
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Osaka accidentally mails out funeral service ads to people infected with coronavirus. → https://is.gd/52S0s703:14
de-factoroughtly doubes every 14 months, hence you get a TB for 90 GBP in spring 202203:19
dTalFun fact, a sloth carrying a 1Tb microSD card has more bandwidth than LjL's 33.6 kbps modem03:21
LjLbut a lot longer roundtrip!03:21
dTalYeah the ping is terrible03:22
LjLalso, if you make it a pangolin, you will see why the modem is preferable03:22
dTalCrazy to think you could smuggle dozens of terabytes in the soles of your shoes03:24
dTalOr even a terabyte under your tongue03:24
LjLand here is me, who was just pondering buying a 32GB microSD card -.-03:26
dTalpondering? It's like 7 euros man03:27
dTaljust do it03:27
LjLyou wouldn't know how long i can ponder 7 euros03:28
LjLanyway my conclusion was "no" because it's for this bluetooth speaker that accepts an SD card it can play music from, but it doesn't remember what it was playing after you turn it off, and it's a chore to change tracks, so i'd be listening to the same song all the time03:28
dTalThere are SD cards with wifi03:31
dTalpretty expensive though03:31
dTaland kind of silly when... it's a bluetooth speaker03:31
dTalalso I think those wifi sd cards only support retrieving files, not writing them03:32
dTalsince they're for camera03:32
dTals03:32
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +39 deaths (now 9452) since 12 hours ago03:33
LjLdTal, i have one of those, actually it's a microSD card *adapter* that is SD-sized, so you can upgrade the card in it. it's actually running a Linux system with a 2.something kernel that you can break into, so you can do pretty much what you like03:43
LjLdTal, i totally didn't think it could be possible to change the firmware permanently into something that scans the SD card for anything that looks like login or credit card details, and send it to the first open WiFI AP it finds, and then resell those hacked cards03:44
LjLit's pretty neat though anyway, a tiny Linux computer in an SD card, with WiFi03:46
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: U.S. Hits Milestone in Pandemic With More Vaccinated Than Cases (10338 votes) | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-01/u-s-hits-milestone-in-pandemic-with-more-vaccinated-than-cases | https://redd.it/lagf3k03:47
dTalLjL: oh that's neat03:54
ryoumamoldex n95 straps are breaking when i put on the mask.  what is a good simple solution for this?  not looking for banter.04:06
bin_bashthat does not sound good or normal...04:08
bin_bashare the straps brittle?04:08
bin_bashare the masks within their expiration date?04:08
ryoumaidk about expiration date.  i go tthem a year ago or so.  maybe they are just oxidized rubber.  or maybe the searing heat from the summer made the straps go bad.04:10
ryoumai got the from a reputable looking safety supply company04:10
bin_bashit doesn't sound like they would work properly if the straps are breaking.04:10
bin_bashI'd contact the manufacturer with the part and lot number to find out04:10
ryoumarigtht, so i need to reapair the straps.  i looked online and found only https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-fix-an-N95-mask-strap which seems a bit complex for me.04:11
bin_bashno, i mean the filters may not work04:11
bin_bashyou should not use them.04:11
bin_bashif they've been exposed to such extreme heat that the rubber is brittle and oxidized, the filter is not going to be effective either.04:12
ryoumamy quick search online suggested that breaking rubber straps are normal.  i do know that rubber bands that hold broccoli together do get brittle (they seem to call it dry rot online).  so it i s highly plausible to me that the masks are ok but thhe straps are not.04:15
bin_bashI would definitely not expect that to be normal... 04:15
ryoumai have no phone.  i have asked my gf to call moldex.  i doubt she will.04:16
bin_bashwhere did you see that it's normal?04:16
ryoumawell nobody said so explicitly04:16
bin_bashIt doesn't sound normal to me, it sounds like the material has degraded.04:16
ryoumayou can look at the link above or so04:17
ryoumathe rubber has yes04:17
bin_bashQuora is not trustworthy04:17
bin_bashif the rubber has, then the filter likely has as well.04:17
bin_bashThey have expiration dates for a reason. 04:17
ryoumado you have a reasoning for why the filter also is bad04:18
ryoumaor source04:18
ryoumanot a challenge just a question04:18
bin_bashjust experience with masks. if the straps are breaking then the plastic and rubber is likely breaking down in other palces as well04:19
bin_bashit's why you can't sell used car seats and why they expire04:19
ryoumahere is one https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/volunteers-to-repair-hundreds-of-thousands-of-defective-n95-masks-for-san-diego-health-care-workers/2296045/04:19
ryoumaor this "The downside is that the rubber straps reduce their elasticity and are easy to break after long-term storage—around a year or longer. I use these often enough for dusty chores (like insulating attic or sanding) that they don’t get brittle before they’re consumed."04:20
ryouma--- https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/reviews/B000EZUOZM04:20
bin_bashhm interesting so even though they're expired and are breaking they're still approved as a tentative "better than nothing" measure04:21
bin_bashthat's bizarrwe04:21
bin_bashbizarre*04:21
ryouma"Just be careful with the rubber straps - they may break when donning and removing the masks if they're pulled too much." same page04:21
bin_bashi guess jsut use rubber bands instead04:21
ryoumaso it does seem normal for moldex at least04:21
bin_bashyeah i guess theyre not made well04:22
ryoumai am asking for simpler instructions than the quora.  i don't know how to attach rubber bads where to get etc.04:22
bin_bashyoud think they could sit for more than the year04:22
bin_bashwell what does the mask look like04:22
bin_bashmoldex makes a lot of different ones04:22
ryoumalooks just like the image on the amazon page04:23
ryoumai did not check model number as i cannot be vertical and cannot turn ights on either04:23
bin_bashah didnt see that link04:23
bin_bashjust tue rubber bands through the slots like in the nbc article04:24
bin_bashtie*04:24
bin_bashit's like a staple right04:24
bin_bashjust slip a rubber band through04:24
ryoumawait a second.  this model is actually available.  i can't tell if it04:25
ryouma's 2 per pack or 10 but this is amazing and a reaonsable price04:25
ryoumathe word just is not as straighforward for me as it is for you i think04:25
bin_bash> Prioritized for organizations on the front lines responding to COVID-19.04:25
ryoumait says so on page?04:26
bin_bashye04:26
bin_bashyou can buy them from amazon marketplace04:26
ryoumai would not know what kind of staple, where to get, what to do to remove old, etc.  other places said stapling does not work.  that is why "just do A" is not as starigtforward for me.04:27
bin_bash$39 from one seller $42 from another04:27
bin_bashno i dont think you would remove the staple04:27
bin_bashin the nbc article they were able to tie a rubber band around04:27
bin_bashyou should take the same appraoch04:27
bin_bashre-stapling is not a good solution04:27
ryoumawhich bands, what lengths where get04:29
BrainstormUpdates for France: +8069 cases (now 3.2 million) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +19268 cases (now 3.8 million), +409 deaths (now 106567) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +3324 cases (now 987668), +30 deaths (now 14073) since 23 hours ago04:29
ryoumai can't tgell from article what you mean04:29
bin_bashryouma: you have to try it and see04:29
ryoumait is above my ability atm.04:29
ryoumathen04:29
ryoumaand my gf's also as she just doesn't have that kind of ability04:30
bin_bashyou cant like push string through or rubber through?04:30
ryoumaa hole?  maybe if ther eis one.  there isn't.  but you are assuming i can choose and order and know what to get and get right length and so on.  string is not going to hold it on04:31
pugusashttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/341585988/figure/fig1/AS:894156582973441@1590194950469/A-C-demonstrate-the-way-that-the-three-rubber-bands-are-knotted-together-D-G.jpg04:32
bin_bashryouma: look at how the rubber bands are connected.04:33
bin_bashthen connect new rubber bands the same way or using string04:33
bin_bashyou should be able to just slide it under the staple or whatever it is that's connecting the old one04:33
LjLwhen i bought a 3M mask recently i was surprised at how, despite the mask itself seeming good quality and having a good fit, the rubber band just feel like rubbish. the very first FFP2 mask i got, back in February, for €13 which was whatever the pharmacy could get a hold of, was much better in that respect: it had an elastic bad that wasn't rubber, and that went all around the mask (with holes it could move freely in)04:36
LjLinstead with this 3M it feels like i'm breaking the rubber bands just to stretch them enough to get them on the back of my head, and if i'm not careful i end up hurting myself (the bands are attached with staples, at that)04:36
ryoumayeah it is like htat04:40
ryoumaidk if it is rubber or not04:40
bin_bashLjL: that's weird, my 3M masks are not like that at all04:40
bin_bashare you sure theyre not counterfeit?04:40
ryoumathere is likely no place to "just" push a rubber band through as the staples are ticghtly holding hte old ones.  they do not always break by pulling out  from uderneat a staple and if the did the staple would not hold them.  i could maybe tie a knowt.  but again there is likely no place to push anything through anything.04:41
bin_bashryouma: i dnt know then, sorry. someone else may have an idea04:41
bin_bashi understand what you mean though now04:41
bin_bashi thought maybe you could pull the old one out and push new string or something under04:42
LjLbin_bash: I'm almost positive it's not counterfeit. But it's made in the UK, maybe the US ones are different04:43
bin_bashyeah could be04:43
bin_bashmine has straps like this: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/735026F/3mtm-particulate-respirator-8210-n95.jpg04:44
ryoumapugusas: thanks.  a miracle occurs between c and d for me.  maybe something under nose and chin or something but that would not work here as mask is convex and i woul dhave to hold it on with something.  perhaps tape buit then that would use up the surface.04:44
bin_bashtheyre cloth04:44
bin_bashbetter image https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/47c58d53-6935-4ece-bea1-80f7d8ece219/svn/white-3m-face-masks-8210ph20-dc-64_1000.jpg04:44
pugusasryouma: actually I've tried it works fine04:44
LjLbin_bash: you can see the bands and the staples here https://pic.infini.fr/gNt8DSwA/dOpe7QSM04:44
ryoumapugusas: i don't get it, sorry just don't undersatnd04:44
pugusasoh sorry, didn't read your conversation full 04:45
bin_bashinteresting LjL 04:45
bin_bashit's a different style04:45
pugusasit works on KN95, and surgical04:45
ryoumathen what keeps the straps from pulling out?  20:44 <bin_bash> better image https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/47c58d53-6935-4ece-bea1-80f7d8ece219/svn/white-3m-face-masks-8210ph20-dc-64_1000.jpg04:45
bin_bashryouma: i dont understand the question04:45
ryouma"just" push the elastic throuhg  then put on head.  elastic pulls ou.  no?04:46
bin_bashno04:46
LjLbin_bash: hmm I see, quite completely different style. I would say my style looks better, except for the bands (but you can't really see that when it's folded)04:47
bin_bashtheyre atached04:47
bin_bashidk im not worried about how it looks lol04:47
LjLI didn't mean just for the looks04:47
LjLYours is of the "circle you slap on your face" kind, just with the metal strip for the nose04:47
LjLMine has two folds that go under your chin and over your nose, and the one around the nose has some foam type material to form a better fit, plus, there is a layer of cloth(?) Inside that is probably meant to protect the actual filter from your moisture04:49
bin_bashit doesn't just slap on, if it's fitted properly it seals04:49
bin_bashbut yeah it's meant for construction and mold removal not medical04:51
LjLbin_bash: https://pic.infini.fr/EuWsJUK0/TZ1Obv8Y not sure if this gives a rough idea... Best I could do without touching it too much04:52
bin_bashnice04:52
bin_bashyeah i see what you mean, better coverage04:52
bin_bashi have one of these https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81B81dsL1FL._SL1500_.jpg04:53
bin_bashi dont use it though. the filters are precious04:53
bin_bashi guess now with super covid it's probably a good idea when i have to go to the pharmacy04:54
ryouma"theyre attaqched" i can't figure out what you mean04:54
LjLBut with the fit it gives, it *almost immediately* feels wet inside. Unless I just have a particular wet breath I guess its the same for everyone :p so compared to the cheap (and I suspect useless) Chinese KN95, this immediately let's you understand what having a valve is about - regardless of its merits or demerits during a pandemic. But hopefully this inside layer it has keeps the filter from getting wet and hence useless too quickly...04:55
bin_bashew thats not fun04:55
bin_bashthe one i have doesnt feel instantly wet inside 04:55
bin_bashbut not as much of it is actually touching my face04:56
bin_bashlike, the inside of the mask i mean04:56
LjLbin_bash: yeah that respirator has a valve. It wouldn't be allowed in some places here, and frowned upon in others. But I'm thinking of getting one anyway mostly because of the covid variants too... I don't really know what to edpevt04:56
bin_bashryouma: the straps are glued together to themselves04:56
LjLExpect04:56
bin_bashLjL: tbh i would wear a medical-style mask over it if it does have a valve04:56
bin_bashlike if i wore my half face respirator i'd wear a surgical mask over it04:57
ryoumathen your suggestion of just pushing through is not something i understand.  they are not glued.  i would hafve to know what ikind of glue.  etc.04:57
bin_bashryouma: idk what youre tlaking about04:57
ryoumaok nm04:57
ryoumai am in a lot of pai from typig04:57
bin_bashare we talking about the mask i showed you that i have or your mask?04:57
bin_bashim sorry :(04:57
LjL%cases myanmar05:06
BrainstormLjL: In Myanmar, there have been 140354 confirmed cases (0.3% of the population) and 3138 deaths (2.2% of cases) as of 2 hours ago. 2.4 million tests were performed (5.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Myanmar for time series data.05:06
LjLmostly COVID-safe like most of SE Asia05:06
LjLbut also, currently experiencing a coup05:06
bin_bashi hope you feel beter ryouma <305:06
bin_bashLjL: yeah it's so surreal05:07
LjLi do get the feeling there's "something we're missing"05:07
LjLthey may use masks more, comply with lockdowns more, have harder lockdowns in the first place, etc05:07
LjLbut... i don't know05:07
bin_bashyeah05:08
bin_bashor may not have a lot of data or a combination of all of it05:08
LjLthe amount of tests done shows a ratio that is better (i.e. lower) than italy manages05:08
LjLalthough italy just started cheating by including antigen tests among "tests", while it previously only included PCR05:09
LjLso the ratio suddenly went down05:09
LjL%cases italy05:09
BrainstormLjL: In Italy, there have been 2.6 million confirmed cases (4.3% of the population) and 88845 deaths (3.5% of cases) as of 9 hours ago. 32.8 million tests were performed (7.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.9% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 4.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data.05:09
bin_bash%cases USA05:13
Brainstormbin_bash: In United States, there have been 26.6 million confirmed cases (8.1% of the population) and 448260 deaths (1.7% of cases) as of 44 minutes ago. 313.9 million tests were performed (8.5% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.6% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 3.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20States for time series data.05:13
spybertThose numbers look good when compared to the US05:13
bin_bashspybert: the deaths dont05:14
ryoumaasia hypotheses might also include different testing and genes05:14
ryoumawas genes ruled out?05:14
spybertbin_bash: No, because they occured in the early stages when ICUs were swamped, like in NY05:14
bin_bashspybert: that doesn't make it better05:15
spybertbin_bash: We had more spare ICU capacity per capita so wecould keep the deaths down, also maybe different age profiles of the population in the 2 coutries.  Not sure about that though.05:16
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus doctor's diary: We're getting self-harming 10-year-olds in A&E → https://is.gd/dSQiIg05:17
bin_bashspybert: sure im just saying that the 3.5% is worse. that's all05:17
LjLspybert, ICU have nearly been swamped again, and when the variants grow, i bet they definitely will. just yesterday all regions went out of lockdown05:17
LjLpeople rushing to bars and pubs immediately05:18
LjLryouma, probably not very easy to rule out genes without doing "controlled exposure" experiments (which are largely unethical except if you are the UK)05:18
LjLspybert, we definitely have... well, had? a higher life expectancy than the US05:19
LjLbin_bash, this is what i'm tempted to buy https://www.amazon.co.uk/GVS-Technology-SPR299-Elipse-Respiratore-elasticizzati/dp/B004YVYBX8/ the price is reasonable, though some people (by no means all) complain 1) it has a poor fit 2) it smells like plastic 3) some parts are fragile05:20
LjLbut i'm still not sure what the use case for it is except "total emergency if the variants get out of control and i stop caring about valve or no valve"05:21
LjLbecause other than that, i probably can't go to many places without that thing raising issues05:21
spybertLjL: I've got an interesting story about vaccine acceptance amoung healthcare workers.  My wife, a nurse, just got out of the hospital after getting a c-section. One of the nurses taking care of here was a Trump conspiracist.  Didn't take the vaccine herself and tried to talk my wife out of getting it, too :-(05:21
LjLspybert, someone who regrettably left this channel recently was quite frustrated that all of his ex-friends (or family?) were "unfriending" him due to his positive views of the vaccine etc05:22
spybertLjL: The c-section went well, and I now have a healthy baby boy keeping me up at night :-)05:22
LjLi guess if you're in the wrong circles and you don't fit in... tough luck05:22
LjLspybert, congratulations :P05:22
bin_bashLjL: hm poor fit makes me think theyre getting the wrong size05:23
LjLbin_bash, possible, but there are only two sizes05:23
bin_bashyeah my guess is people who need small get medium or vice versa05:24
LjLspybert, i think it's regrettable that all these issues are so polarized always. i have a number of issues and skepticism i could raise about the vaccines, without going "vaccines all suck". vaccines were rushed, factually, and so i have good reason to look at the studies carefully. but that almost seems not to be a position that's acceptable for anyone: the anti-vaxers will hate me and the anti-anti-vaxers too05:24
LjLbin_bash, i tried to measure my head as they indicate but it wasn't easy to get a reliable measure05:24
bin_bashspybert: i find it horrifying that a hospital would employ someone like that05:24
bin_bashLjL: yeah usually need a second person whihc... hard in these times if you life alone05:25
spybertbin_bash: Me too, but that's how it is.  I think she was probably upset when I speculated that not many babies would be named "Donald" for a very long time :-)05:26
bin_bashlol05:26
bin_bashi would have sent her out and filed a complaint05:26
bin_bashand then contacted the media with her name and information05:26
spybertbin_bash: Oh, that would be mean. Her union is protecting her, so it wouldn't do any good.05:27
bin_bashthat's not necessarily true05:27
bin_bashthese are very polarizing times05:28
spybertbin_bash: The nurses union at that hospital chain negotiated a contract where they have the right to refuse vaccination.05:28
bin_bashthats fucked05:28
bin_bashyou should defintiely contact the media05:28
spybertMost of them sensibly might the right choice, but not all :-(05:28
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): Why is it OK to call the UK variant and South African variant by the geographic area that they originated when we jumped through so many hoops to not call COVID-19 by the area it came from?: I was scrolling through some news headlines tonight and one about the new UK variant caught my attention. It made me think about how many [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/EG3Bom05:29
spybertbin_bash: My wife would kill me, she wouldn't want the attention05:30
bin_bashthere are ways to do it anonymous/pseudonomyously but fair05:31
bin_bashesp after a c-section05:31
bin_bashshes prob exhausted05:31
LjLbin_bash, bah, based on what i can measure on my own, i seem to be juuuust around the size where it's unclear whether i need S/M or M/L05:32
spybertbin_bash: Yeah, not feeling so good after the pain medications wore off.  They gave her some nice narcotic painkillers to take home but she won't use them.05:34
bin_bashLjL: ugh that's frustrating. i would err and go too-small, but idk how close it is05:34
bin_bashand which side youre closer to05:34
bin_bashspybert: yeah dont blame her esp if shes breastfeeding05:34
LjLbin_bash, basically in this table https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71UqTk%2BWJsL._SL1500_.jpg  it looks like my nose-to-chin is just short of 120mm, so 118 or slightly less is plausible, while on the other hand i measure 150mm between the "zygomatic arches", but that's even harder to measure so it could be less (putting me in S/M) or it could be more (M/L)05:36
LjL(which is funny because in school i was depicted as pointy-faced, but instead by these metrics i am large-faced)05:36
bin_bashi'd go with S/M in that case05:37
bin_bashif vertical is just short of 120 then i think S/M will fit much better05:38
bin_basheven if the horizontal is slightly larger05:38
LjLi was kinda defaulting to S/M before looking at the measures better05:38
LjLi imagine my face as smaller than average, not bigger, but... you sometimes have a wrong picture of yourself :P05:39
bin_bashactually LjL i was looking at it again05:39
bin_bashit does say M/L for that alignment05:39
bin_bashi was reading it wrong at first05:40
LjLbin_bash, yeah it mostly does. but i could be 118/145 or something like that, which would put me back into S/M. it's just there at the corner of the middle square05:43
LjLlower middle square05:43
bin_bashyeah05:43
pugusashttps://twitter.com/AbraarKaran/status/135641852872370176105:43
LjLanyway, i'll go to bed and skip the respirator for now. i'll just make sure to buy it before everyone else does :P05:44
pugusaswish they would have done this last Spring , USPS mail free masks , DPA for N-95s 05:44
LjLmasks were useless last spring!05:45
LjLit's well known05:45
pugusas100 years ago USPS built roads , it has some mandate05:45
LjLhistorically, postal services were a very important reason to have roads (like in the roman empire and other empires that came before and after it)05:46
BrainstormUpdates for New Zealand: +2 cases (now 2307) since 3 days ago06:02
pugusasLjL: this looks interesting, off topic https://romeonrome.com/2016/01/mussolinis-architectural-legacy-in-rome/06:09
BrainstormNew from EurekAlert!: US adults report highest stress level since early days of the COVID-19 pandemic: As the US confronts a bitter election season, political unrest and violence, a shaky economy, and a soaring death toll due to COVID-19, 84% of US adults say the country has serious societal issues that we need to address, according to a new poll. → https://is.gd/XwVGaz06:29
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +1264 cases (now 711417), +32 deaths (now 21124) since a day ago06:33
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Test blitz to 'find every case' of South African variant → https://is.gd/VuIQbp06:42
BrainstormNew preprint: Discovery of re-purposed drugs that slow SARS-CoV-2 replication in human cells by Adam Pickard et al, made available as preprint on 2021-02-01 at https://biorxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2021.01.31.428851 [... want %more?]07:02
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: India launches online memorial to commemorate pandemic victims → https://is.gd/34oo0k07:06
BrainstormUpdates for Texas, United States: +36283 cases (now 2.4 million), +171 deaths (now 37245) since a day ago — Andalusia, Spain: +20366 cases (now 411468), +130 deaths (now 6390) since 2 days ago — Saskatchewan, Canada: +1365 cases (now 24011), +38 deaths (now 306) since 6 days ago — United Kingdom: +14270 cases (now 3.8 million), +306 deaths (now 106669) since 13 hours ago07:16
MKVA51-Hows things going?07:19
PoonFly%cases vietnam07:33
BrainstormPoonFly: In Vietnam, there have been 1850 confirmed cases (0.0% of the population) and 35 deaths (1.9% of cases) as of 17 hours ago. 1.5 million tests were performed (0.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Vietnam for time series data.07:33
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Europol warns fake negative Covid certificates being sold across Europe → https://is.gd/bBsxBj07:42
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Hong Kong threatens to knock down doors to force covid tests → https://is.gd/y6MFp507:55
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: WHO-led COVID-19 probe team in China visits animal health facility → https://is.gd/UYCerl08:32
zuttimpressive numbers in Vietnam, if those are even semi-correct08:47
zutt%cases taiwan08:47
Brainstormzutt: In Taiwan, there have been 912 confirmed cases (0.0% of the population) and 8 deaths (0.9% of cases) as of 22 hours ago. 314951 tests were performed (0.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Taiwan for time series data.08:47
zuttTaiwan too08:47
PoonFlyzutt are you from Taiwan?08:53
zuttnein08:53
PoonFlyso where are you from? and how is it going there?08:54
PoonFlyis it still fine?08:54
zutt%cases Finland08:55
Brainstormzutt: In Finland, there have been 45482 confirmed cases (0.8% of the population) and 677 deaths (1.5% of cases) as of 18 hours ago. 2.9 million tests were performed (1.6% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.8% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.1% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Finland for time series data.08:55
zuttnot very good at the moment08:55
zuttnew countrywide lockdown is planned to start ~3 months from, if they can get some laws passed to allow this08:55
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vaccine crime ring: Chinese police make 80 arrests & seize 3,000 saline-filled syringes → https://is.gd/D9jaPF08:57
PoonFlyohm, take care bro08:57
zuttat least we're doing better than our neighbours! :P08:58
zutt%cases Sweden08:58
Brainstormzutt: In Sweden, there have been 566957 confirmed cases (5.5% of the population) and 11591 deaths (2.0% of cases) as of 3 days ago. 5.1 million tests were performed (11.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Sweden for time series data.08:58
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: South African rhino poaching dip accelerates in lockdown → https://is.gd/asN0V109:09
de-factomandatory masks in USA public transports? 09:17
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Moderna proposes filling vials with additional doses of COVID-19 vaccine → https://is.gd/Ze24vb09:21
de-factogood point ^^ @Moderna09:23
de-factodoes it have to be diluted with saline prior to usage like the BioNTech one too?09:24
de-factoif so id assume it might be difficult to fill the vial with saline up to one point because of the air bubble not compressing well anymore (hence multiple times must be released)09:25
Arsanerit%cases Russia09:42
BrainstormArsanerit: In Russia, there have been 3.9 million confirmed cases (2.6% of the population) and 73619 deaths (1.9% of cases) as of 23 hours ago. 102.3 million tests were performed (3.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.3% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Russia for time series data.09:42
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Diseases, Conditions, Syndromes: Does wearing two masks provide more protection? → https://is.gd/to6DxG10:10
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: England to surge testing after detecting 11 S.African variant cases: Health officials said Monday they will increase testing in eight areas across England where nearly a dozen South African COVID-19 variant cases have been identified in the last week. → https://is.gd/sgyQKX10:23
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: EU aims to boost vaccination rollout as variants spread: The European Union put on a brave face Monday, defending its troubled vaccination programme and insisting that renewed pledges of vaccine deliveries would make up for a production shortfall. → https://is.gd/bKXKiw10:47
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Poland: Rebellion against coronavirus lockdowns → https://is.gd/sbv4kl11:12
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): Alcohol deaths hit record high during Covid pandemic → https://is.gd/e1039k11:25
BrainstormUpdates for St. Vin. and Gren.: +107 cases (now 1008) since a day ago12:27
BrainstormNew from ScienceNews: COVID-19 precautions may be reducing cases of flu and other respiratory infections: The same efforts to prevent COVID-19’s spread can keep other respiratory infections at bay. But once we go back to normal, outbreaks could be larger. → https://is.gd/WmbXHH12:41
DocScrutinizer05moin12:43
BirossoCurrywurst.12:46
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India-made Covid-19 vaccines land in Dubai → https://is.gd/bFiApL12:53
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Research shows nasal spray that protects against COVID-19 is also effective against the common cold: Research into a new drug which primes the immune system in the respiratory tract and is in development for COVID-19 shows it is also effective against rhinovirus. Rhinovirus is the most common respiratory virus, the main cause [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/XB9ml913:18
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Olympics-Games will go ahead regardless of pandemic situation: Tokyo 2020 president → https://is.gd/tNiX0713:29
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Russia's Sputnik V vaccine has 92% efficacy in trial: Trials with 20,000 volunteers show the vaccine gives a high level of protection against Covid-19. → https://is.gd/aP9AU013:42
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Belief in COVID conspiracies linked with vaccine hesitancy: Low likelihood of accepting a coronavirus vaccine is associated with having "conspiracy suspicions" about the pandemic, a new study has found. → https://is.gd/5UbmRw14:19
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +1633 cases (now 526728) since 23 hours ago14:43
BrainstormNew from NIH Director's blog: Can Blood Thinners Keep Moderately Ill COVID-19 Patients Out of the ICU?: One of many troubling complications of infection with SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, is its ability to trigger the formation of multiple blood clots, most often in older people but sometimes in younger ones, too. It raises the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/afXFwq15:09
DocScrutinizer05hmmm  >>The results that are in so far suggest that individuals hospitalized, but not severely ill, with COVID-19 who received a full intravenous dose of the common blood thinner heparin were less likely to need vital organ support, including mechanical ventilation, compared to those who received the lower “prophylactic” subcutaneous dose. It’s important to note that these findings are in contrast to results announced last month 15:26
DocScrutinizer05indicating that routine use of a full dose of blood thinner for patients already critically ill and in the ICU wasn’t beneficial and may even have been harmful in some cases <<15:26
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine appears safe, 91% effective: Lancet → https://is.gd/H2d1bS15:34
DocScrutinizer05>>The study was published online Tuesday in the journal, Lancet. [...] The latest study is based on research involving about 20,000 people over age 18 at 25 hospitals in Moscow between September and November, of whom three-quarters got two doses of the Russian vaccine 21 days apart and the remainder got placebo shots.<<  link please!15:39
ubLIX[m]DocScrutinizer05: looks like this one: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00234-8/fulltext15:54
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Global trends in lung cancer show continuing disparities: With over 2 million new cases globally in 2018, lung cancer remains the most prevalent cancer in the world. → https://is.gd/xjaDas15:58
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: If new COVID variants become dominant in U.S., re-infections likely, says Fauci: If new, more contagious variants become dominant in the United States, a high rate of Americans who have already suffered through a case of COVID-19 will likely get re-infected. → https://is.gd/rnixSx16:10
ArsaneritWill we get Спутник V (Гам-КОВИД-Вак) in the EU?16:11
DocScrutinizer05ubLIX[m]: many thanks! Arsanerit: depends. On what ubLIX[m] just linked, which is [quote]>>Safety and efficacy of an rAd26 and rAd5 vector-based heterologous prime-boost COVID-19 vaccine: an ***interim*** analysis of a randomised controlled phase 3 trial in Russia<<  so we for sure need better final data before EMA will even consider16:23
DocScrutinizer05LjL: please add https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00234-8/fulltext to %vax sputnik16:25
DocScrutinizer05or wherever it seems to fit16:25
DocScrutinizer05%vax sputnik16:25
BrainstormDocScrutinizer05, Adeno-based - Sputnik V is a Non-replicating viral vector vaccine developed in Russia by Gamaleya Research Institute, which started distribution initially on unspecified → https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/Gamaleya16:25
DocScrutinizer05why only for those who received TWO doses?16:31
DocScrutinizer05AIUI a 12 dozen could have died from first shot and wouldn't even show up in statistics16:38
DocScrutinizer05since this is an allegedly non replicating but still complete and "alive" viral vector vaccine, I'd be _very_ wary about severe adverse reactions to first shot16:42
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: Safety and efficacy of an rAd26 and rAd5 vector-based heterologous prime-boost COVID-19 vaccine: an interim analysis of a randomised controlled phase 3 trial in Russia (82 votes) | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00234-8/fulltext | https://redd.it/lauiya16:46
DocScrutinizer05it's not like cracking apart an adenovirus then let it recombine with a swapped-out / modified genome is an exact and audit-able science, is it?16:46
DocScrutinizer05and they even use two "different" vaccines in which adenovirus they employ for dose1 and dose216:54
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Coronavirus: Why is Portugal being hit so hard?: Good news about COVID vaccines has been in abundance in the past few weeks. In the meantime, though, the pandemic continues to accelerate globally, with Europe accounting for 34% of new cases worldwide. One country in particular has been hit hard: Portugal. → https://is.gd/suUopH16:55
DocScrutinizer05not suggesting that adenovirus vector is insequre per se, but I'd like to see data about adverse reactions on those who got one shot and then bailed out16:55
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Sweden targets AstraZeneca COVID-19 jab for under 65s: Swedish health officials on Tuesday recommended that the newly approved AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine primarily be used for those under the age of 65, citing a lack of evidence for its efficacy among the elderly. → https://is.gd/O9SnDD17:18
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Vietnam COVID cluster caused by UK variant: A fresh wave of coronavirus infections in Vietnam was caused by a more contagious variant spotted in Britain, authorities said Tuesday, as they rushed to contain the country's most serious ever outbreak. → https://is.gd/1ndN3E17:31
DocScrutinizer05de-facto: UK variant percentage in Germany: 1%<N<10%. So closing borders is already pretty pointless17:33
DocScrutinizer05this also voids my layman's forecast as well as the perspective about R_eff17:34
DocScrutinizer05>>So closing borders is already pretty pointless<<  for the UK variant, of course it's the more important now to keep the SA and bolsonaro variant out17:36
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +5857 cases (now 2.2 million) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +1712 cases (now 988583), +50 deaths (now 14117) since 16 hours ago — Canada: +91 deaths (now 20152) since 22 hours ago17:37
de-factoDocScrutinizer05, well its not the last variant of concern we will see17:46
de-factohttps://twitter.com/kakape/status/135635952217717966217:46
darsieIs the AstraZeneca vaccine cheaper because it doesn't have to be cooled?17:46
de-facto"@kakape (Kai Kupferschmidt): And now for the bad news. *sigh* It looks like #B117, the more transmissible variant first detected in England, has now picked up the E484K mutation as well. That is the one linked to evading SOME immunity in SAfrica and Brazil. h/t @_b_meyer https://t.co/2iQLr8uJx7 (18 hours and 48 minutes ago)"17:46
de-factohttps://twitter.com/richardneher/status/135637050321738957717:47
de-facto"@richardneher (Richard Neher): @theosanderson You can see them here in @firefoxx66 484 build: https://t.co/vPTTQU47qQ A total of 16 genomes (as of yesterday). One cluster in England, one genomes from Wales. (18 hours and 8 minutes ago)"17:47
de-factodarsie, AstraZeneca does not make direct profit from it17:47
Jigsy%cases UK17:48
BrainstormJigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 3.8 million confirmed cases (5.8% of the population) and 106669 deaths (2.8% of cases) as of 10 hours ago. 73.4 million tests were performed (5.2% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data.17:48
Jigsyhttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/02/teenager-emerges-after-10-month-coma-with-no-knowledge-of-pandemic17:48
Jigsy%title17:48
BrainstormJigsy: From www.theguardian.com: Teenager emerging from 10-month coma has no knowledge of pandemic | UK news | The Guardian17:48
DocScrutinizer05darsie: I think the process and base substances needed are cheaper17:50
de-factoDocScrutinizer05, from closing borders way too late to prevent a new variant we should not conclude that it will not have any successor VOC that will use just the same convenient airplane import if that is allowed to repeat17:50
DocScrutinizer05obviously17:51
de-factowe probably already will have to deal with our local variants enough, no need for nasty imports17:51
DocScrutinizer05de-facto: no need to explain the obvious to me17:51
de-factojust in reference to " So closing borders is already pretty pointless"17:52
DocScrutinizer05[2 Feb 2021 17:36:53] <DocScrutinizer05> >>So closing borders is already pretty pointless<<  for the UK variant, of course it's the more important now to keep the SA and bolsonaro variant out17:52
de-factoits probably too late for that one too17:52
DocScrutinizer05yep17:52
de-factoits all over Europe already17:53
de-factohttps://nextstrain.org/groups/neherlab/ncov/S.E484?c=gt-S_48417:54
de-factothis very well might be a problem17:56
de-factoN501Y will take over and E484K might (partially) evade. Great.17:58
de-facto.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.28.21250486v117:59
Brainstormde-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: PCR assay to enhance global surveillance for SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern | medRxiv17:59
de-factomaybe we should pay the VOC-Import-Export & Co Inc. an extra bonus from tax money for such successful and prompt spread. Bravo.18:09
BrainstormUpdates for Mayotte: +415 cases (now 9003) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +11816 cases (now 3.8 million), +618 deaths (now 107117) since 22 hours ago18:15
LjLde-facto, i don't quite understand nextstrain. when i hover (or click) on variants, sometimes it says something like "Amino Acid at S site 484: K", but other times it seems to say nothing even though i'm on variants, based on color18:21
LjLmaybe i'm just bad at computers18:21
LjLand/or blind18:21
DocScrutinizer05or the UI is a poor design - my money's on that18:23
de-factoall blue should be k 18:33
de-factofrom above link18:34
de-factoall should have hover events i assume18:36
de-factomaybe a browser bug?18:36
LjLi'm probably just blind, they do have hovers, i just thought only some showed the mutation18:37
LjLbut now it seems all of them do18:37
LjLthey don't always show it in the same *position* in the list of things it shows18:37
LjLso maybe i missed it before because of that18:37
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): UK finds more coronavirus cases with 'concerning' mutations → https://is.gd/vpvuJ818:58
BrainstormUpdates for Cuba: +1044 cases (now 28636), +2 deaths (now 218) since 23 hours ago — Albania: +942 cases (now 79934), +5 deaths (now 1398) since 23 hours ago — Italy: +9651 cases (now 2.6 million), +499 deaths (now 89344) since 23 hours ago19:10
BrainstormNew from In The Pipeline: Myths of Vaccine Manufacturing: In the last few days, the question of why more drug companies haven’t been enlisted for vaccine production has come up. It’s mostly due to this tweet: The problem is, as far as I can see, this is simply wrong. There are not “dozens of other pharma companies” who “stand ready” to [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/td4xO119:11
LjLde-facto, ↑ may answer some of the complaints you had about this not taking place19:20
LjLwhile on a semi-unrelated note... anyone know if the EU has or is in the process of obtaining a purchase agreement for Novavax? that's a rather efficacious vaccine that we initially didn't have on our menu19:21
LjLalso, so far it looks even more likely that Italy will have elections, apparently the majority isn't finding an agreement :(19:22
BrainstormNew from NPR: Biden Administration Will Ship COVID-19 Vaccines Directly To Pharmacies: The program will begin with about 1 million doses a week sent to thousands of retail pharmacies. The White House is stressing that equity of vaccine distribution is a key component of the effort. → https://is.gd/E3gTn419:23
LjLDocScrutinizer05, %vax just scrapes data off covidvax.org. i've added the Sputnik data to %links (i.e. the think you can see at https://github.com/ljl-covid/links or https://covid19.specops.network )19:45
LjLcc: ubLIX[m]19:45
LjLalso, when there's something i definitely should add, feel free to use the %tell command (%tell ljl blah blah) to ensure i am aware19:46
DocScrutinizer05LjL: sure ting19:59
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Health: Comparing the Covid-19 vaccines developed by Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson → https://is.gd/NXDP0619:59
de-facto" There are definitely not dozens of companies who can make enough RNA. But most importantly, I believe that you can count on one hand the number of facilities who can make the critical lipid nanoparticles."20:20
de-facto"That doesn’t mean that you can’t build more of the machines, but I would assume that Pfizer, BioNTech, Moderna (and CureVac as well) have largely taken up the production capacity for that sort of expansion as well."20:20
de-factorepeat:  "That doesn’t mean that you can’t build more of the machines..."20:21
DocScrutinizer05>>In an ideal world, a pandemic vaccine could be delivered in a single shot, so supplies could be stretched to cover a lot of people<<  *plonk*20:21
de-facto"There are not “dozens of companies who stand ready” to produce vaccines and “end this pandemic”." <-- well why couldn't there have been such made ready for expected approval date? I mean as soon as it was clear mRNA will be a thing it also was clear that this cap would be needed20:23
DocScrutinizer05one "great" thing about this pandemic: I finally get a very accurate list about who (of politicians, media, reporters) are ignorant idiots and which are the few that actually may earn some trust in their competence20:23
de-factowell very interesting read indeed, sure its challenging, yet still production must be scaled up much much more. idk how but it has to be made possible.20:25
DocScrutinizer05downside: I absolutely don't know anymore whom to vote for in next elections20:25
de-facto%links sputnik20:26
Brainstormde-facto, https://sputnikvaccine.com/newsroom/pressreleases/second-interim-analysis-of-clinical-trial-data-showed-a-91-4-efficacy-for-the-sputnik-v-vaccine-on-d/ (Second interim analysis of clinical trial data showed a 91.4% efficacy for the Sputnik V vaccine on day 28 after the first dose; vaccine efficacy is over 95% 42 days after the first dose), as announced by Gamaleya in a [... want %more?]20:26
DocScrutinizer05de-facto: breaking news: they _are_ ramping up production by all means already20:26
de-factonice20:26
de-factoDocScrutinizer05, yes thats what they say, but imho even their proposed plans are not nearly enough production rate cap20:27
de-factoand they probably will stay behind those by some factor20:27
de-factoone billion doses of mRNA in a year is not nearly enough, we need at least an order of magnitude more... 20:28
de-facto...per company20:28
de-factoi know its a challenge, but we simply need this now, so i dont want to hear their excuses but rather proposals how to help them with scaling up20:29
DocScrutinizer05and I need a holiday. neither of both is possible, by mere factual logic20:29
DocScrutinizer05you want to help with scaling up? stop ranting20:30
de-factohow does that help them?20:30
DocScrutinizer05this will help most20:30
de-factoah20:30
DocScrutinizer05gvmt agreed to try to help with sourcing of intermediate products. Gvmt offered money, nobody *was interested*, they can't use it20:31
BrainstormUpdates for Spain: +29351 cases (now 2.9 million), +724 deaths (now 59805) since 23 hours ago20:31
DocScrutinizer05any more questions?20:31
de-factoyeah what is their actual bottleneck then?20:32
de-factoLNP production cap?20:32
DocScrutinizer05I guess several of bottlenecks, and finally mere capacity of the whole chain as it exists and took literally years to build up and can't get cloned on a contruction site in MekPom in 6 months20:33
DocScrutinizer05I heard simple rubber caps for the vials being just one of the bottlenecks20:34
DocScrutinizer05there are more of bottlenecks, less trivial than caps20:34
de-factoyeah the lower in the production hierarchy the more "product" per dose has to go through their production lines (e.g. glasses etc), but nothing i have read so far sounds like an unsolvable problem to me20:36
de-factoand the most exotic steps like that LNP production, sure that is challenging and requires experts, still we simply need this to scale at any costs20:39
de-factothose 12-24 Euro per dose, i wonder how many orders of magnitude more money can be saved (per dose) by having that does ready earlier20:41
de-factotwo to three orders of magnitude per year?20:44
DocScrutinizer05~100 times20:44
DocScrutinizer05again, all that money can buy has already been purchased/ordered20:45
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Russia's Sputnik V vaccine 91.6% effective: Lancet study → https://is.gd/pWfsTt20:45
DocScrutinizer05they asked the boss of BNT how much faster he could produce if he gets a 1500€ per dose - answer, absolutely impossible no matter how much money you give me20:47
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: Single Dose Administration, And The Influence Of The Timing Of The Booster Dose On Immunogenicity and Efficacy Of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (AZD1222) Vaccine (81 votes) | https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268 | https://redd.it/layx6g20:47
de-factoyeah id say economic loss due to covid in US being 16.2 trillion dollar in 2020, its 3500-fold the cost of one vaccination dose20:48
de-factohttps://www.visualcapitalist.com/putting-the-cost-of-covid-19-in-perspective/20:48
de-factoso two to three orders of magnitude should be somewhat correct20:49
de-factoi wonder if it would make a difference if they would pay 150k Euro per Pfizer/BioNTech vial20:54
DocScrutinizer05no20:54
DocScrutinizer05it would create delays due to unusual procedures needed in accounting20:55
de-factohuh? computer taking too long counting the additional zeros?20:56
DocScrutinizer05I said >>unusual<< not "additional"20:56
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Russia's Sputnik V vaccine is 91.6% effective against symptomatic Covid-19 → https://is.gd/yGIamn20:57
DocScrutinizer05you need completely different logistics to transport stuff of that value, just to start with. and that's not even accountig20:57
de-factoyeah i dont care, it has to be solved, logistics is not a problem in my view20:58
de-factoquite interesting that the Sputnik V vaccine comes to 95% efficiancy too now20:59
DocScrutinizer0591%?21:00
de-factohow come its numbers are so much better than AZ?21:00
de-factohttps://sputnikvaccine.com/newsroom/pressreleases/second-interim-analysis-of-clinical-trial-data-showed-a-91-4-efficacy-for-the-sputnik-v-vaccine-on-d/21:00
DocScrutinizer05for one, it's using TWO different vectors for 1. and 2. shot21:01
ox1decure ambient music: https://youtu.be/eLrJUdBHiXA21:01
de-factoi mean if that was the same metric as AZ it would be FANTASTIC numbers21:01
de-factoyeah DocScrutinizer05 91,4%21:02
de-facto((31÷4699)−(8÷14095)) ÷ (31÷4699) = 0,91421:03
DocScrutinizer05ps: they said they had 3 cooperation partners back in October already (iirc) and now are about to finalize cooperations with 1521:04
de-factothis is very very good, we need more independent vaccination production chains worldwide21:05
de-factoassuming everything is exactly as they state there (hence giving their claims the same credit as the other publications)21:06
de-factonot sure if their platform would be capable of an update shot (due to immunity also developing against already used viral vectors)21:07
DocScrutinizer05they = BNT21:08
de-factono 21:08
de-factoGamaleya 21:08
DocScrutinizer05yes21:08
de-factoor AZ or Janssen etc21:09
de-facto.title https://sputnikvaccine.com/newsroom/pressreleases/a-vaccine-for-all-mankind-sputnik-v-s-efficacy-in-fighting-covid-19-is-validated-by-internationally-/21:11
Brainstormde-facto: From sputnikvaccine.com: A vaccine for all mankind: Sputnik V’s efficacy in fighting COVID-19 is validated by internationally peer reviewed data published in The Lancet | Official website vaccine against COVID-19 Sputnik V.21:11
de-facto.title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00191-4/fulltext21:12
Brainstormde-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Sputnik V COVID-19 vaccine candidate appears safe and effective - The Lancet21:12
ox1decure music: https://youtu.be/eLrJUdBHiXA - any doctors in the channel? this music may be useful - in cure - and boost immunity21:12
DocScrutinizer05we already seen that21:12
de-facto.title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00234-8/fulltext21:12
Brainstormde-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Safety and efficacy of an rAd26 and rAd5 vector-based heterologous prime-boost COVID-19 vaccine: an interim analysis of a randomised controlled phase 3 trial in Russia - The Lancet21:12
ox1dedoc: spread the word21:13
DocScrutinizer05ox1de: please, this isn't a comedy channel21:13
DocScrutinizer05%links sputnik21:14
BrainstormDocScrutinizer05, https://sputnikvaccine.com/newsroom/pressreleases/second-interim-analysis-of-clinical-trial-data-showed-a-91-4-efficacy-for-the-sputnik-v-vaccine-on-d/ (Second interim analysis of clinical trial data showed a 91.4% efficacy for the Sputnik V vaccine on day 28 after the first dose; vaccine efficacy is over 95% 42 days after the first dose), as announced by [... want %more?]21:14
BrainstormUpdates for Monaco: +44 cases (now 1543), +3 deaths (now 17) since 22 hours ago — Switzerland: +39 deaths (now 9487) since 22 hours ago21:15
DocScrutinizer05sorry, you're right, finaly efficiency 95%21:15
ox1deTool: https://youtu.be/q7DfQMPmJRI21:16
de-facto10% participants over the age of 60y21:17
de-factoefficiancy in those >60y old: 91·8% (67·1–98·3)21:21
de-facto10 = 2 + 8 cases in 1611 people over age 6021:22
de-factocorrection 2/1611 in verum and 8/533, hence (8÷533−2÷1611)÷(8÷533) = 0,91721:25
ox1deavg: https://www.avg.com/Antivirus21:26
de-factotheir placebo branch was only roughly 1/3 of their verum branch in terms of participands21:26
de-factointeresting verum vs placebo graph over time, what is the slight kink at day 60?21:29
de-facto"Figure 2Kaplan-Meier cumulative incidence curves "21:30
de-factoin "Figure 3Humoral immune response" how come some of the placebo group participants have igG titres? recoveries?21:33
de-factoprobably, i dont really get their dots on level schemes, where are most of the placebo dots?21:34
de-factothose are supposed to be violin plots, right?21:34
de-factodiscrete form of them21:34
DocScrutinizer05ubLIX[m]: thanks21:35
DocScrutinizer05o.O21:37
LjLFun21:39
de-facto"The most common adverse events were flu-like illness, injection site reactions, headache, and asthenia. Most of the reported adverse events (7485 [94·0%] of 7966) were grade 1; 451 were grade 2 (5·66%) and 30 were grade 3 (0·38%)."21:39
LjLOkay so meanwhile, Mario Draghi (former ECB president) has been appointed by the head of state as the next person who will try to see if he can put together a government21:40
de-facto"The analysis of serious adverse events included 21 862 participants who received at least one dose (of whom 19 866 received two doses) up to database lock on Nov 24, 2020. 70 episodes of serious adverse events, considered not related to COVID-19, were recorded in 68 participants: in 45 (0·3%) of 16 427 participants from the vaccine group and 23 (0·4%) of 5435 participants from the placebo group"21:40
de-facto"None of the serious adverse events were considered associated with vaccination, as confirmed by the independent data monitoring committee (IDMC)."21:41
de-factoLjL, oh wow Draghi going for president in IT?21:41
LjLde-facto: AFAIK even if he succeeds he's not automatically going to be PM, he's just the one appointed to "explore" the situation. But I suppose if Conte is just not accepted by Renzi, he might become PM21:42
de-factowow going to be interesting then indeed21:43
LjLBut I guess basically yeah if he succeeds he probably becomes PM...21:43
de-factohttps://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.1016/S0140-6736(21)00234-8/attachment/17995120-059e-4a34-bd67-f247f6a656b5/mmc1.pdf <-- how can i view that? it sends me in a redirect loop21:43
de-factowtf lancet, slap your admins21:44
LjLThey are saying it's a bit of a win for Renzi (who everyone hates now for breaking up everything), but really unless Renzi "wins", and gets his stupid ministers, the alternative is elections and it's not an alternative now21:44
LjLde-facto: on phone at least, I get redirect loop too21:45
de-factowget can do it21:45
de-factoi remember having had that in chrome some time ago21:45
de-factosomething weird with their backend idk, they should fix it21:45
de-factopage 5: Subjects with any serious adverse event: 45÷16427 = 0,002739392 or ~ 0.274%21:50
de-factolooks good so far, very good actually21:52
LjLToo good? Is this Sputnik? I'm not really following rn21:56
de-factoat page 11yes sputnik22:00
de-factoyes sputnik22:00
de-factoidk if its too good, it looks a lot better than AZ for sure22:00
de-factowhy not trust their claims as long as we dont have any reason not to do so?22:01
de-factowe need some good news from time to time22:01
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The secret to Israel’s coronavirus vaccination success: an agreement with Pfizer to exchange citizens' data (age, gender and medical history) for 10 million doses of the vaccine → https://is.gd/CSo4Xr22:04
de-factoyeah and Israel is paying also double the price than EU and does not hold the manufacturer liable22:05
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Mutation that helps coronavirus evade vaccines showing up in British variant: (HealthDay)—Public Health England reported a disturbing discovery on Monday: The variant that has brought that country to its knees appears to be gaining a mutation that could help it elude vaccines, The New York Times reported. → https://is.gd/T8XNee22:16
DocScrutinizer05de-facto: >>"The analysis of serious adverse events included 21 862 participants who received at least one dose...<<   vs   >>rare adverse events were assessed in all participants who had received two doses and for whom all available data were verified in the case report form at the time of database lock<< - strange22:32
de-factowhat do you mean?22:38
de-facto1 vs 2 doses?22:39
de-factobtw primer and booster are different AdV vectors22:39
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Europe warms to Russian jab after positive trial results: Final-stage trial results published on Tuesday placed Russia's Sputnik V coronavirus vaccine on a par with its Western rivals, as German Chancellor Angela Merkel voiced openness to its use in the European Union once it receives the regulatory nod. → https://is.gd/NueQDE22:40
de-factoi think we can not afford to decline any possibility for getting more vaccines ever22:44
de-factowe just need to take everything thinkable, just as long as its safe22:44
de-factoand the Data for Sputnik V looks good from a fast look over it22:45
de-factoi have not looked into any details (i am too tired for that)22:45
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Some US pharmacies will offer COVID vaccines from February 11: The United States will begin to offer COVID-19 vaccines at pharmacies from February 11, part of efforts to rapidly increase the rate at which shots reach arms. → https://is.gd/9GvIXq22:52
BrainstormUpdates for France: +291 deaths (now 76803) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +1726 cases (now 988597) since 21 hours ago22:54
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Russia's Sputnik V vaccine is 91.6% effective against symptomatic Covid-19 (10101 votes) | https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/02/health/russia-sputnik-v-phase-3-intl/index.html | https://redd.it/lav2pl23:18
DocScrutinizer05>><de-facto> what do you mean? 1 vs 2 doses?<<  yes, my quote reads like those that bailed out after first shot are not included  >>btw primer and booster are different AdV vectors<< that's what I meant by [2 Feb 2021 21:01:15] <DocScrutinizer05> for one, it's using TWO different vectors for 1. and 2. shot23:26
DocScrutinizer05>>1 vs 2 doses?<< it seems like that paper is self-contradicting23:29
LjLDr Galli here who speaks on TV very often (he directs a well known hospital) spoke very strongly against vaccinating the people who already had COVID. he thinks it's "political convenience" but makes no sense, especially when we see that as soon as we vaccinate them their antibodies spike incredibly high, meaning at the very least it makes no sense to also give them the booster. He goes further and thinks before vaccinating people, we should test their 23:32
LjLantibodies and only vaccinate those without23:32
de-factowell assuming one would ask the people in Manaus if they would be fine not to get vaccinated when they test positive for antibodies, do you think they would agree in the light of what currently happens there?23:33
de-factook granted its Wuhan spike vaccination, should be updated (as should their immunity id guess)23:35
LjLde-facto: well no, but we don't really have the certainty that the vaccines (especially some that I won't name but they have the letters A and Z) will work on their variant23:35
DocScrutinizer05manaus been strongly questioned by Drosten today. It's just too implausible that the commonly cited explanation really is true23:36
de-factoyes it urgently needs to be tested (and updated imho)23:36
de-factoi havent heard the lastest Drosten, he is very competent, but i never trust anyone just because of the name, only for reasoning23:37
de-factoand it fits with other data too, e.g. Novavax being only 60% efficient in SA while 90% efficient elsewhere23:38
LjLBtw I don't know of I mentioned, but in Italy also, AZ has only been approved for people below 55 years (although in typical Italian fashion they changed their minds like three times in a day)23:38
DocScrutinizer05particularly the "study" that claims a high - iirc 70% - seroprevalence seems quite flaky, based on a lot of assumptions and handwaving. On top it's not likely that a reinfection would cause that many severe cases23:38
de-factoi am not convinced AZ would not be efficient in elderly, they just have to provide the data for that23:39
LjLde-facto: I think Novavax was actually technically the most effective vaccine, above 95%, if you don't consider South Africa23:39
LjL89% or so is the total23:39
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Students' mental health deteriorating during pandemic: Since the COVID-19 pandemic struck last March, psychiatric emergency visits at Rady Children's Hospital near San Diego have crept up as youths and teens struggle with virtual learning, social isolation and unstable home lives. → https://is.gd/14Yuc023:40
de-factoso (1-0.6)/(1-0.9) = 4 - fold more cases in SA then23:40
de-factoDocScrutinizer05, i think Drosten is very convervative, he only believes something with absolutely waterproof evidence (same was with UK variant, when he updated his view). Its good that he is like that but it also means he only is precise (not assuming something without waterproof reasoning, but also not declining it)23:43
DocScrutinizer05*shrug* - for me it sounded very plausible23:45
de-factooh sure, i cant say anything about his statement about Manaus, havent listened to the most current podcast yet23:46
DocScrutinizer05for sure P.1 has some escape potential but that doesn't explain what's happening in Manaus23:46
de-factothey gave even 4 (not mutually exclusive) reasons in https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00183-5/fulltext23:47
de-factoso it could be a mix of 1) 75% exaggerated 2) immunity decaying 3) evasive mutants 4) increased transmissibility23:48
DocScrutinizer05all 4 probably23:48
de-factoyeah why not23:49
DocScrutinizer05those are btw exactly the 4 arguments Drosen cited. And he added he's expect a lot of sneezing but no death wave (paraphrased by me) from a reinfection wave on such scale23:50
de-factohmm idk 23:51
de-factohavent they found the B.1.1.7 variant in UK to be more severe (fatality rates wise)?23:51
de-factoand havent doctors in Manaus also *said* something like that too (without providing statistics afaik)?23:52
de-factoi really should listen to the podcast first though23:52
de-factoi think i do that tomorrow, its one and a half hours wow.23:53

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