libera/##covid-19/ Thursday, 2021-02-04

bin_bash	man the fact that they're now requiring exemptions pisses me off so badly	00:03
bin_bash	https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Mask-Order-CDC_GMTF_01-29-21-p.pdf	00:03
bin_bash	now any fucktard can get a corrupt doctor to write them a note	00:03
bin_bash	and just get a rapid test >:(	00:03
de-facto	wow so in that report on virological.org they state that the Brazilian P.1 mutant took over 50% of lineages in one month (November 0% -> December 51%) and another month to completely dominate (December 51% -> January 91%)	00:07
de-facto	in Amazonas state	00:08
LjL	they are also allowed to stop wearing it "If, on an aircraft, wearing of oxygen masks is needed because of loss of cabin pressure orother event affecting aircraft ventilation"	00:08
LjL	unacceptable, that's dangerous, everyone will get infected	00:08
LjL	(inbefore: <de-facto> yes it's unacceptable that they're on an aircraft!)	00:09
de-facto	huh?	00:09
LjL	just kidding re: the document bin_bash posted	00:12
bin_bash	LjL: if you have to put on the oxygen mask then you obv have to take off the covid-blocking mask	00:12
darsie	Can I get an mRNA vaccine?	00:12
bin_bash	at that point youre just trying to survive a plane crash	00:12
bin_bash	but the so-called ADA exemptions are bullshit	00:13
darsie	nm, I'll ask in ##coronavirus	00:13
bin_bash	darsie: why are you asking us if you can get a vaccine?	00:13
bin_bash	we're not giving them out :P	00:13
de-facto	Mask wearing with the exception "While eating, drinking, or taking medication, for brief periods" LOL	00:14
darsie	bin_bash: Cause we want to go to Malta and I'm not sure if it's available.	00:14
de-facto	so i just put a cup of coffee on my table and state "hey i am drinking, cant you see?"	00:14
bin_bash	de-facto: you're asking the wrong people	00:15
bin_bash	also don't go to Malta.	00:15
darsie	Why not?	00:15
darsie	In May.	00:15
de-facto	darsie, dont travel as long as case numbers still are so high	00:15
LjL	<darsie> nm, I'll ask in ##coronavirus ← 'scuse me but while i obviously have nothing against that channel i don't think it's so nice to ask a question and then immediately afterwards go "nevermind, i'll ask in this other channel" :(	00:15
LjL	but anyway, indeed, i don't know if you can get an mRNA vaccine, it depends on where you live, but most likely not	00:16
LjL	and stay where you are for heavens' sake	00:16
darsie	LjL: Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude. I just think that's more the channel for talking.	00:16
LjL	actually it's kind of the other way around if anything... ##coronavirus topic has always been about science, while here it's fine to also vent and whatnot (in practice, both happen on both, though)	00:17
darsie	Ok, case numbers are about twice as high in Malta as in Austria.	00:18
bin_bash	that does not help your case at all	00:19
darsie	LjL: The topic of the channels refer to each other.	00:19
darsie	news vs. talking	00:19
LjL	darsie, ah, i see	00:19
LjL	i set those topics, but i kind of meant it a different way...	00:19
LjL	perhaps it can be misinterpreted	00:19
LjL	it's just that sometimes people here don't really like the bot giving so many bits of news and stuff	00:19
de-facto	bin_bash, i am saying that because it was the most common hole in the concept of public transport here too, people were constantly drinking water for very long times for not having to wear a mask during that time. problem is of course one could not prohibit people from drinking and some misuse that then	00:20
LjL	so instead of having the whole argument on whether it's good or bad to have the bot, i really just suggest trying the other channel, and vice versa if one does want news etc	00:20
de-facto	i have not seen that first hand but in youtube videos made from phones	00:20
LjL	de-facto, "don't drink for more than 10 seconds" :P but yeah people will use every loophole, unfortunately many loopholes are necessary to have	00:21
darsie	My friend will be sad if I say I'm not coming to Malta.	00:21
de-facto	darsie, the problem with traveling is that it allows the mutation variants (also the unknown ones not sequenced yet) to spread all over the world, even if its not dangerous for yourself it may import it to a region and be dangerous for other people	00:22
de-facto	this even can happen with asymptomatic spread, so you would not even know	00:22
darsie	mhm	00:22
de-facto	my family also was sad that i did not visit them for Christmas yet it is what it is, we all have to work together on this	00:23
darsie	Before I coughed a bit, but no other symptoms, so I wondered if I'm a asymptomatic carrier. But nobody else in my shared flat has it.	00:23
darsie	But see, here's where the vaccine comes in.	00:24
de-facto	its hard to say without test (as you probably know from experience with those gargle tests)	00:24
LjL	darsie, yeah but realistically the vaccine is unlikely to be available in May to people who aren't elderly or otherwise prioritized	00:25
LjL	depends on the country a bit of course	00:25
darsie	ok, that answers my question.	00:25
LjL	but in the EU, it seems unlikely, tbh	00:25
darsie	I'd need the vaccine a month before.	00:26
de-facto	of course the usual coughs and sneezed that we all had in previous years did not vanish this year, but ofc now it also could indicate first signs of COVID so its very inconvenient that we still dont have quicktests in the supermarkets etc	00:26
darsie	I can go to a free quick test center.	00:26
LjL	i am of two minds on doing something like that	00:27
LjL	isn't that the kind of place where you are most likely to encounter people who have COVID?	00:27
darsie	They actually encourage people to go there, even without symptoms.	00:27
darsie	I heard it's very well organized.	00:27
LjL	yeah i don't know, i'm just going by my own reasoning	00:27
de-facto	LjL yeah therefore that concept in Austria to have bicycle couriers take the tests at the peoples homes was a extremely good idea imho	00:28
bin_bash	de-facto: yeah it pisses me off. previously there were no exemptions	00:28
LjL	de-facto, ideally you'd vaccinate the couriers	00:28
darsie	We still do that for suspects.	00:28
bin_bash	now because the federal government is mandating it, there have to be exemptions	00:29
bin_bash	how fucked is that	00:29
bin_bash	(so fucked)	00:29
darsie	People with symptoms should not go to get tested. They should stay at home.	00:29
de-facto	bin_bash, yeah, still hopefully it will help to make more people wear a mask, it makes a big difference	00:29
de-facto	darsie, exactly	00:30
bin_bash	not really	00:30
bin_bash	already airlines were requiring people to wear masks	00:30
bin_bash	this actually forces them to relax their existing policies	00:30
bin_bash	there's ntohing good about it	00:30
de-facto	i thought masks just became mandatory in public transport in US	00:31
bin_bash	they already were	00:31
de-facto	but only from hearing about it in the news, so maybe its wrong?	00:31
bin_bash	the airlines themselves were requiring it	00:31
bin_bash	but now that the federal government is mandating it, it actually means the requirements are LESS strict	00:31
de-facto	i meant public transport, not airlines, airplane passenger traveling should not happen, at least not internationally	00:32
bin_bash	air travel is public transport	00:32
bin_bash	chartering a private flight is not	00:32
bin_bash	but taking an american airlines flight is	00:32
de-facto	for me public transport refers to taking a local train for going to work or such	00:33
bin_bash	only some major cities have that	00:33
bin_bash	and i think masks were already required	00:33
de-facto	oh ok, i dont have a clue about US actually here its the main transport for many people	00:34
bin_bash	nah most people in the US drive	00:34
de-facto	yeah its different then	00:34
bin_bash	300 million people, 270 million cars	00:34
de-facto	actually in this case its a real advantage (biosecurity) to have a car, but its horrible for the environment	00:35
bin_bash	only poor people take public transportation outside of major cities	00:35
bin_bash	and even in major cities tbh	00:35
bin_bash	like in dallas or atlanta middle class and wealthy people definitely dont take public transportation unless it's some kind of political statement	00:35
de-facto	yeah its different here its very common to take a public transport, not only the poor but everyone	00:35
bin_bash	one time when i was little my mom took me on the subway and my dad got mad "I work hard so you don't have to take the subway" lol	00:36
de-facto	interesting so it even got some sort of stigma to it in US then?	00:36
bin_bash	but she explained it was a fun experience for us and then he realized it was a good thing lol	00:36
bin_bash	yeah	00:36
bin_bash	well in nyc it doesnt	00:37
de-facto	here its the fastest way to reach the city centers, actually much more convenient	00:37
bin_bash	he just grew up really poor so he wanted to shield us from that	00:37
bin_bash	in NY it's different. pretty much everyone takes the train because you dont have to find parking, but people who can afford it will take taxis if the weather is bad or something	00:38
de-facto	it can be a pain to search for parking places and have traffic jams etc	00:38
darsie	Antigen test in Vienna: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iJtchQAAlI Doesn't show if there are queues with people close to each other.	00:38
bin_bash	and many people of all classes take the metro north and subway	00:38
darsie	In German	00:38
bin_bash	bnut like in the south it's very different	00:38
bin_bash	racist even in some way	00:38
bin_bash	s	00:38
de-facto	interesting	00:38
bin_bash	yeah it's weird	00:39
de-facto	darsie, thats quite cool system, but online registering, qr code, etc, i wonder what those elderly people without a smartphone or internet abilities will think if you tell them "its simple, just scan your qr code!"	00:40
bin_bash	i wouldnt scan a qr code and i'm not elderly :P	00:40
darsie	de-facto: They could call the health hotline and ask for alternatives.	00:41
darsie	You just have to show the code.	00:41
de-facto	yeah i think its too complicated for some non-tech people, even my dad probably would call me for help on that	00:41
darsie	The test center will scan it.	00:41
de-facto	all they should require is a phone call or such	00:42
darsie	de-facto: They could call the health hotline and ask for alternatives.	00:42
de-facto	not everyone got a computer with a printer etc	00:42
de-facto	yeah	00:42
darsie	1450	00:42
de-facto	and they recommend public transport for asymptomatic suspected carriers, hmm	00:43
darsie	for asymptomatic people.	00:43
darsie	If someone knows to be positive they have to quarantine.	00:44
darsie	The whole population was asked to come and get tested. With exceptions, like positive ppl.	00:45
darsie	Positive ppl should come by car.	00:45
darsie	or ... sypmtomatic ppl.	00:45
darsie	yeah, that.	00:46
de-facto	i still think the bicycle courier quicktest concept is far superior to that in terms of biosecurity	00:47
darsie	first contact ppl can get a visit by the bike courier.	00:47
darsie	I think.	00:47
darsie	Couriers are limited.	00:47
de-facto	it should be a decentralized solution, either by couriers or by selling them online or in supermarket etc	00:48
de-facto	supermarket would have to deliver to peoples homes anyhow if they feel like they potentially should quarantine	00:49
de-facto	example: i suspect i might have got it, i isolate at home and order my food and tests online and get them delivered in front of my door, i wait until the courier is gone and then take them indoors and perform a quicktest	00:50
de-facto	or with PCR like it was done with those gargle tests with the bike couriers, sure its limited cap, but its a very very good idea imho	00:51
darsie	https://youtu.be/gkSFuTyk1GA?t=40 There you can somewhat see queues.	00:51
de-facto	indeed	00:52
DocScrutinizer05	logs at http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/__covid-19/	00:52
DocScrutinizer05	with search and line granularity links	00:52
de-facto	interesting they need warming boxes for the quicktests to incubate their result	00:53
de-facto	i did not know that before, but makes perfect sense in terms of chemical reactions	00:53
darsie	They're outside and it's winter.	00:54
de-facto	yeah	00:54
de-facto	DocScrutinizer05, very nice thanks :)	00:54
DocScrutinizer05	what the? 2021-02 double?	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	oh heck	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	one file that gets edited	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	lol	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	I'll fix that __eventually__ ;-D	00:56
de-facto	darsie, its very good they try to gain experience with quicktesting en mass and therefore enable also limited gatherings again, we need such concepts and we need massively more testing	00:59
de-facto	holy crap i posted 1173 links	01:10
DocScrutinizer05	meh, solved. spot the difference: ##covid19.2021-02-02.log ##covid-19.2021-02-03.log	01:15
DocScrutinizer05	:-D	01:15
de-facto	huh? tuesday and wednesday	01:16
DocScrutinizer05	nah	01:18
DocScrutinizer05	look closer ;-)	01:18
de-facto	02 vs 03? idk	01:18
DocScrutinizer05	move 362 files with sourcemask covid19 to covid-19 ; HAIL MC :-D	01:19
de-facto	ooh	01:19
de-facto	yeah the channel has the dash in its name	01:19
DocScrutinizer05	de-facto: don't worry, it took me also at least 30 minutes to spot :-D	01:21
DocScrutinizer05	and sth still fishy :-/	01:23
DocScrutinizer05	finally. :-))	01:29
Brainstorm	Updates for France: +30689 cases (now 3.3 million) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +3821 cases (now 994095), +72 deaths (now 14194) since 23 hours ago	01:35
LjL	whooops :x	01:37
LjL	you'd figure i know what the channel is called	01:37
DocScrutinizer05	no worries, all fixed. Many thanks! :-)	01:41
DocScrutinizer05	%chanlogs	01:43
DocScrutinizer05	.links chanlogs	01:43
Brainstorm	DocScrutinizer05, Sorry, nothing found. Try with broader keywords	01:43
LjL	oh i won't put the logs here, because reasons, but i suppose i can make a %chanlogs	01:44
LjL	here = in links	01:44
LjL	DocScrutinizer05, the search gives me a 404 btw	01:46
DocScrutinizer05	oh?	01:50
DocScrutinizer05	some more bug?	01:50
DocScrutinizer05	what the? http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/_infobot/search?q=x	01:52
Brainstorm	New from BMJ: Covid-19: Social murder, they wrote—elected, unaccountable, and unrepentant: Murder is an emotive word. In law, it requires premeditation. Death must be deemed to be unlawful. How could “murder” apply to failures of a pandemic response? Perhaps it can’t, and never will, but... → https://is.gd/Q7eZY5	01:52
DocScrutinizer05	tomorrow, maybe "it fixed itself"[TM] until then	01:52
* DocScrutinizer05 suspects some file owner/perm issue		01:53
Brainstorm	Updates for Falkland Is.: +4 cases (now 45) since 7 days ago	02:00
DocScrutinizer05	meh! /etc/lighttpd/conf-enabled/20-irclog2html.search.conf	02:05
DocScrutinizer05	http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/__covid-19/search?q=x	02:15
DocScrutinizer05	tobypus: help	02:17
tobypus	DocScrutinizer05: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. You may also want to use the 'list' command to list all available plugins and commands.	02:17
sssb54	join #youtube-dl	02:49
qkall	sssb54: don't tell me how to live.	02:50
sssb54	ok	02:51
CoronaBot	/r/coronavirus: Kroger, Which Profited $2.6 Billion From Pandemic, Closes Two Stores To Avoid Coronavirus Hazard Pay To Workers (10508 votes) \| https://labor411.org/411-blog/kroger-closes-two-stores-rather-than-give-workers-hazard-pay/ \| https://redd.it/lbvxp1	02:52
Brainstorm	Updates for United Kingdom: +14405 cases (now 3.9 million) since 19 hours ago	03:14
de-facto[m]	.title http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html	03:47
Brainstorm	de-facto[m]: From wonder.cdc.gov: The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request	03:47
de-facto[m]	.tell LjL http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html	03:52
Brainstorm	de-facto[m], I'll pass LjL your message when they are around.	03:52
LjL	de-facto[m], well, it's good to know that with COVID vaccines as a whole, "FACIAL PARALYSIS" is at around 1% next to... wait... "swelling" and "injection site pruritus"? aren't those supposed to be kinda common?	04:04
Brainstorm	LjL: At 2021-02-04 02:52:56 UTC, de-facto[m] told you: http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html	04:04
LjL	and also how is 1%-facial-paralysis consistent with general natural occurrence of facial paralysis?	04:04
Brainstorm	Updates for New Zealand: +5 cases (now 2313) since a day ago	04:16
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: At least 10% of Marine recruits tested positive for COVID-19 twice → https://is.gd/UPEYrL	04:59
CoronaBot	/r/covid19: Estimating the effectiveness of the Pfizer COVID-19 BNT162b2 vaccine after a single dose. A reanalysis of a study of 'real-world' vaccination outcomes from Israel. (80 votes) \| https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.01.21250957v1 \| https://redd.it/lbsvee	05:17
Brainstorm	Updates for Honduras: +1313 cases (now 151103), +24 deaths (now 3662) since 5 hours ago — Canada: +142 deaths (now 20361) since 21 hours ago	05:25
Brainstorm	New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 715: Fauci ouchy: TWiV explains why hydroxychloroquine failed in humans despite showing antiviral effects in cells, and reviews the published data on the Pfizer/BioNTech mRNA vaccine. → https://is.gd/EnFyvd	06:08
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Health workers start anti-coup protests in coronavirus-hit Myanmar → https://is.gd/hAxl7L	06:45
Brainstorm	Updates for Belgium: +3124 cases (now 716395), +43 deaths (now 21216) since 23 hours ago	06:52
Brainstorm	New preprint: IN-HOSPITAL CONTINUATION WITH ANGIOTENSIN RECEPTOR BLOCKERS IS ASSOCIATED WITH A LOWER MORTALITY RATE THAN CONTINUATION WITH ANGIOTENSIN CONVERTING ENZYME INHIBITORS IN COVID-19 PATIENTS A RETROSPECTIVE COHORT STUDY by Francisco Jose De Abajo et al, made available as preprint on 2021-02-03 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2021.02.01.21250853 [... want %more?]	06:58
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Improve your chances of a better immune response to the COVID-19 vaccine; here’s how → https://is.gd/17ttIg	07:21
Brainstorm	Updates for Mayotte, France: +415 cases (now 9003) since 23 hours ago — France: +32213 cases (now 3.3 million), +430 deaths (now 77668) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +19209 cases (now 3.9 million), +1322 deaths (now 109441) since 23 hours ago — Lombardy, Italy: +1738 cases (now 541797), +46 deaths (now 27259) since 23 hours ago	07:29
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: UK coronavirus variant has arrived in Kansas → https://is.gd/cIK9Hv	07:46
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: Covid trial in UK examines mixing different vaccines: The hope is the new approach gives more flexibility for vaccine schemes in the UK and worldwide. → https://is.gd/8J59MX	08:11
CoronaBot	/r/covid19: A Case for Hydrogen Peroxide Mouthwash and Gargle to Limit SARS-CoV-2 Infection (80 votes) \| https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m1252/rr-27 \| https://redd.it/lc75fl	08:12
de-facto[m]	LjL i think the percentage shown there is of total events in your selection ( e.g. 9794 events, clearly much much less than vaccinations ), so its not per vaccinations given or such	08:37
CoronaBot	/r/covid19: First indication of the effect of COVID-19 vaccinations on the course of the COVID-19 outbreak in Israel (81 votes) \| https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.02.21250630v1 \| https://redd.it/lbtong	08:54
Brainstorm	New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread \| February 04, 2021: The World Health Organization maintains up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. You can find answers to frequently asked questions about Covid-19 and vaccines in our FAQ . → https://is.gd/xcWJos	09:12
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Mexico reports 1,707 deaths, no date for Sputnik vaccine: Mexico reported a near-record 1,707 confirmed coronavirus deaths Wednesday, as the country runs out of vaccines. → https://is.gd/GYR16G	09:47
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: 'Eye of the storm': Diverse east London grapples with virus: Taxicab driver Gary Nerden knows colleagues who got seriously ill from COVID-19. He knows the area of east London where he lives and works has among the highest infection rates in the whole of England. But since he can't afford not to work, he drives around picking up [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GwsiRG	10:11
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Vaccination: Can I take painkillers before or after a COVID-19 vaccine? → https://is.gd/uYdzOo	10:24
Brainstorm	New from StatNews: Opinion: Mobilize family caregivers to speed the rollout of Covid-19 vaccines: What if caregivers' valuable experience could be applied to the most critical effort of this moment, vaccination? #covidvaccine → https://is.gd/k6CbXo	10:49
Brainstorm	New from StatNews: Opinion: Truth and transparency after Covid-19: Mending the relationship between hospitals and the communities they serve: For the communities that hospitals serve, questions about the Covid-19 response will linger — and need answers — like, "Why didn't our hospital have sufficient resources to help its neighbors… → https://is.gd/94RMl1	11:01
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Electronic health records can be valuable predictor of those likeliest to die from COVID: Medical histories of patients collected and stored in electronic health records (EHR) can be rapidly leveraged to predict the probability of death from COVID-19, information that could prove valuable in managing limited therapeutic and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/EBkEvw	11:13
rpifan	y	12:33
Brainstorm	New from EMA: What's new: News: EMA COVID-19 assessments ‘OPEN’ to non-EU regulators → https://is.gd/oyrJoD	12:37
Brainstorm	New from EMA: What's new: General: COVID-19: latest updates → https://is.gd/ejWHzQ	12:49
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Norway, Denmark reserve AstraZeneca vaccine for under-65s: Norwegian and Danish health authorities said Thursday they will limit use of AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine to those under age 65, citing a lack of data on its efficacy for the elderly. → https://is.gd/TVyHG7	13:14
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Dichiarazioni alla stampa del Presidente Conte ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/dichiarazioni-alla-stampa-del-presidente-conte/16162 )		13:34
Brainstorm	New from BMJ: Decoding the unknowns in long covid: Relatively few peer reviewed papers have documented the disease features of “long covid,” but patient groups report several months of sequelae. These can be varying, relapsing, and remitting, and may... → https://is.gd/G1lsXd	13:50
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Patients receiving chemotherapy may not be at increased risk for COVID-19: Compared with patients with cancer who were not on active treatment, those receiving chemotherapy did not have an increased risk for developing COVID-19, according to data presented at AACR Virtual Meeting: COVID-19 and Cancer, held Feb. 3-5. → https://is.gd/NnkWik	14:15
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Using dogs to sniff out Covid-19 is 98 to 100% accurate. → https://is.gd/FghwqH	14:27
DocScrutinizer05	what means >>increased risk for developing COVID-19<< ? :-o	14:29
DocScrutinizer05	>>Using dogs to sniff out Covid-19 is 98 to 100% accurate. → https://is.gd/FghwqH<< this is MASSIVELY UNDERRATED topic	14:31
DocScrutinizer05	no idea why	14:31
iz	they are using them at airports around the world now	14:34
iz	because they are all good boys, DocScrutinizer05 ;b	14:34
darsie	So, there are covid-19 specific gas emissions by people?	14:35
darsie	Or do dogs smell a family of infections including cv?	14:37
DocScrutinizer05	they did a test where they supposedly had DNA from people isolated, and had dogs sniff it out which allegedly worked. They can't explain that since DNA definitely not supposed to be volatile and thus "have no smell"	14:37
iz	they can smell certain forms of cancer in ppl also	14:38
darsie	And "98 to 100% accurate" is nonsense.	14:39
darsie	Or are there 100% and 98% accurate dogs?	14:39
DocScrutinizer05	I uess that's the CI	14:39
DocScrutinizer05	sort of	14:40
* darsie doesn't understand confidence interval.		14:40
DocScrutinizer05	so basically yes, there are tries with 98% success and tries with 100% success	14:40
DocScrutinizer05	though maybe from same dog	14:40
darsie	double blind?	14:41
DocScrutinizer05	it may be moon phase, time of day, or mere random	14:41
darsie	Should be random ppl coming in for a test who don't know if they're positive.	14:42
DocScrutinizer05	darsie: I guess when the dog is supposed to sniff out corona then yes, neither dog nor dog leader know which is the positive sample	14:42
DocScrutinizer05	the problem is a pragmatic >>where from to get the positive samples<< since dog trainers per se have no access to anything known positive	14:44
DocScrutinizer05	any contact is per definition illegal / quarantined	14:46
DocScrutinizer05	this often is a problem for dog trainers. Where from should they get explosives, drugs, positive corona samples...?	14:47
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada the only G7 country to take vaccines from fund that helps developing countries → https://is.gd/CS4O4u	14:52
darsie	Make it legal.	14:56
darsie	We were quick to make cv specific laws. This can be included.	14:57
DocScrutinizer05	darsie: you want to make visiting ICU units legal?	15:05
DocScrutinizer05	or publish adresses of tested-positive people in home quarantine so dog trainers may visit them? makes no sense to me	15:06
darsie	idk if that's the way to go, but if it is, sure. In the video the dogs appearently sniffed on peoples clothes, so perhaps bring clothes from positive ppl to the funnels.	15:07
DocScrutinizer05	yes, that's the way it's done, but it needs a friggin lot of administrative work and legal mumbojumbo	15:08
darsie	I visited ppl to bring cv samples to the lab. Completely legal.	15:08
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, and in lab those samples get treated like hazmat	15:09
DocScrutinizer05	and after positive test they _are_ hazmat	15:09
DocScrutinizer05	so it's pretty difficult to get a hold on tested-positive stuff	15:09
darsie	Maybe dogs are hazmat after touching positive clothes or ppl.	15:09
DocScrutinizer05	yep, valid point indeed	15:10
darsie	But they can stay separate from clothes by a double grate.	15:11
darsie	I guess we could figure something out.	15:12
DocScrutinizer05	like you don't want a vaccination team spreading hep to 10000s with a vax gun, you also wanna make sure dogs are not spreading corona among those they are supposed to test clear	15:12
DocScrutinizer05	please only use a new freshly unpacked sterile dog for each test ;-D	15:14
darsie	maybe ppl can stand in a cabin for 1 minute without touching anything and then a fan blows the air at a dog through a hose.	15:15
DocScrutinizer05	that's a great approach	15:15
DocScrutinizer05	you could even add a hepa filter so any aerosol that's not meant to be the detected "smell" but is infectios would reach the dog. Also an interesting test for what it is the dog smells	15:16
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Researchers create test to analyse SARS-CoV-2 seroprevalence: Research staff from the Polytechnic University of Valencia (UPV), belonging to the Centre for Research and Innovation in Bioengineering (Ci2B), in collaboration with the FISABIO—Doctor Peset University Hospital Foundation, have developed a new ELISA-type [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/jMdOVq	15:17
DocScrutinizer05	btw there been tests with trained bees, for explosives and drugs, that worked just like this and were very effective and sensitive	15:18
DocScrutinizer05	the bees sit in a very smal cage and are observed by a camera while you blow test air flow to them	15:19
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +15064 cases (now 2.3 million) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +1765 cases (now 530289), +9 deaths (now 9539) since 20 hours ago	15:21
DocScrutinizer05	I really hope Portugal coverage in TV will have same effect to Germany like Italy and NY had one year ago	15:25
darsie	Mice are also good at smelling drugs or explosives (or both?).	15:25
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Expert discusses coronavirus 'variants of concern': As new coronavirus variants emerge, scientists are keeping a close eye on how the virus continues to evolve. Recent studies suggest some newer vaccines that are effective at preventing infection with the original virus did not perform as well against the South African variant. → https://is.gd/oxwVZP	15:53
CoronaBot	/r/covid19: Oxford leads first trial investigating dosing with alternating vaccines (82 votes) \| https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-04-oxford-leads-first-trial-investigating-dosing-alternating-vaccines \| https://redd.it/lcbics	16:03
Brainstorm	New from StatNews: STAT+: Pharmalittle: Switzerland rejects AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine; McKinsey to pay $573 million over its role in opioid crisis: Switzerland has become the first European country not to authorize the Covid-19 vaccine from AstraZeneca and Oxford University, as its medical regulator deemed there was insufficient data to reach firm… → https://is.gd/P14Tes	16:18
CoronaBot	/r/covid19: Deaths from alcohol hit record high during 2020, show figures (82 votes) \| https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n317 \| https://redd.it/lcbgpa	16:27
Arsanerit	DocScrutinizer05: unlikely, they're discussing Lockerungen now	16:27
Arsanerit	But maybe Tirol will?	16:27
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Outbreak of UK virus variant detected in Italian town: Health experts warned on Thursday of new coronavirus variants beginning to circulate in Italy, as authorities pinpointed an outbreak of a UK strain in a northern town. → https://is.gd/QP3TIA	16:41
Brainstorm	Updates for Netherlands: +59 deaths (now 14228) since 20 hours ago	16:41
Brainstorm	New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: [CROSSPOST] AskScience AMA Series: Updates on COVID vaccines. AUA! → https://is.gd/QNW7S0	16:54
rpifan	nice	16:59
Brainstorm	New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Analysing the French COVID-19 Epidemic Using a National SARS-CoV-2 RT-PCR Database → https://is.gd/1WmBdj	17:18
CoronaBot	/r/coronavirus: Politicians must be held to account for mishandling the pandemic (10401 votes) \| https://phys.org/news/2021-02-politicians-held-account-mishandling-pandemic.html \| https://redd.it/lcdnoq	17:45
LjL	That "trial" (which is not really a trial but they need consent from everyone who's taken a PCR) could be interesting	17:58
de-facto	Ciao LjL :) about searching on http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html i think it shows percentage of all the query results, not of all vaccinations given	18:03
LjL	de-facto: hmm that makes it different. But also much harder to interpret data...	18:07
pwr22	Hey LjL my dad has had his first jab this week!	18:08
pwr22	How are you and your parents doing?	18:09
DocScrutinizer05	LjL: there's sth on your shoulder ;-) looks like a little pluso	18:09
LjL	pwr22: nice, Pfizer or AZ? We're doing okay, but definitely very far from receiving a jab	18:10
pwr22	Astra Zeneca	18:12
LjL	pwr22: well... Still better than nothing! :p	18:12
pwr22	I think they are in some battle with the EU or something atm?	18:13
pwr22	ha ha yeah	18:13
DocScrutinizer05	they = AZ? well, seems this got settled, though I missed how exactly	18:14
pwr22	I'm more concerned at our incompetent government following an untested immunisation protocol than which jab he got	18:14
DocScrutinizer05	the delayed 2nd shot. Meanswhile turned out it's actually beneficial for efficiency of this type of vaccine	18:15
DocScrutinizer05	in the end, that is. Actually until delayed 2nd shot efficiency is "only" <80%	18:17
pwr22	Yeah AZ	18:18
DocScrutinizer05	delayed 2nd shot boosts that even beyond the efficiency found in regular regimen	18:18
pwr22	Can you link towards the source that it's better?	18:18
DocScrutinizer05	sorry, no links at hand. I'll try cahnlogs search	18:19
pwr22	I thought the efficacy of a single shot was like 50-60%?	18:19
LjL	pwr22: there was a preprint posted last night that concluded it was a good idea, but I think it was based on Pfizer, since it talked about 90% effectiveness...	18:19
pwr22	What sort of timeframe were they looking at?	18:19
LjL	pwr22: well it's not like the efficacy of two is proven to be that much higher :p	18:19
pwr22	afaik UK is still aiming for 12 weeks?	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, I don't know the exxact numbers for first shot only, thus I said <80%, may be 60%	18:20
LjL	pwr22: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.01.21250957v1	18:20
pwr22	Thanks	18:20
Brainstorm	Updates for United Kingdom: +16735 cases (now 3.9 million), +681 deaths (now 110016) since 15 hours ago — Canada: +3406 cases (now 792488), +144 deaths (now 20414) since 23 hours ago	18:21
DocScrutinizer05	also depends _when_ you measure. The efficiency increses from first shot even beyond the nominal time of second shot, also when 2nd shot isn't getting administered at that time	18:21
pwr22	Ah, that's the just a write up of the same Israeli positive murmurings that have been going around for a while?	18:21
pwr22	I'm not a doctor but have enough background from family and my own stuff to know roughly how the lasting immune response is generated and I would find it very surprising if the high effectiveness persisted for a long time after a single dose	18:22
pwr22	Though if they're aiming for like 50% protection and assuming it's going to go seasonal and need updated vaccines often, like flu, then maybe we are gonna go for a one jab route	18:22
LjL	pwr22: the EU has a row with pretty much all vaccine producers (that it has a contract with, anyway), but with AZ in particular we made a blunder after they announced a 60% cut, because we claimed (unsure how correctly) that AZ was basically giving the UK some of the doses that were contractually ours, so we invoked art. 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol which means we can unilaterally put birder controls at the Ireland/NI border, but that made everyone	18:23
LjL	angry (Ireland, NI, UK) so we backpedaled quick, but meanwhile it has fueled the fire about the NI internal border so yay	18:23
DocScrutinizer05	pwr22: yes, second shot does a great deal about "lifespan" of vaccination	18:23
LjL	pwr22: I am of two minds about delaying the booster... Initially I was like "no way, you just don't do something that wasn't in the trial" but considering the shortage now and the fact that the variants may swamp us before we're able to vaccinate a meaningful percentage of the population, maybe it's the lesser evil :/	18:25
LjL	The UK is vaccinating much faster but without this decision, would it? To some extent probably yes since it's already using AZ and we aren't, but it's also the European country with most urgency art variants (well, UK and Portugal now :/)	18:26
* DocScrutinizer05 to changed mind about that delayed 2nd shot		18:26
DocScrutinizer05	too*	18:26
LjL	s/art/wrt/	18:27
de-facto	i still think we should stay with evidence based medicine, so any deviation from previous protocol should be based on similar amount of cases in statistics, sure they can do trials but not just like "aah it will be just fine, lets go with it"	18:27
DocScrutinizer05	de-facto: last week delivered some first hard facts iirc	18:28
pwr22	LjL: yeah that border stuff sigh	18:28
DocScrutinizer05	I don't hink you need to test such change in regimen with w hole phase3 study	18:29
de-facto	they should give the agencies responsible for approval the new trial data (with similar significance on confidence intervals) and if they approve that, fine lets go with it en masse, but experimenting on population with our only weapon we have is a bad idea imho	18:29
pwr22	I wouldn't be surprised if Boris was trying to take the EU vaccine supply but I would have thought the EU politicos would have fact checked before they got all flustered	18:29
pwr22	It was like they were behaving like Nigel Farage for once 😀	18:29
de-facto	and tbh i am very glad that this is also the official position of both CDC and EMA afaik	18:31
de-facto	as well as PEI	18:31
DocScrutinizer05	not sure about that	18:31
de-facto	at least it was last time i checked, not sure if they changed on it	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	the study gave a window of 21 to 42 days iirc	18:32
de-facto	yes	18:32
LjL	pwr22: I don't know what the facts really are. The contract between the EU and AZ has been published recently but so much of it is redacted, it's hard to tell. The thing is that the production sites in the EU are giving LEDs yield than hoped, while the UK site is working fine, and basically the EU thinks it is entitled to a portion of that production too because for the purposes of the contract, the UK was still considered part of the EU when it was written	18:32
LjL	but AZ says it has an agreement with the UK that what gets produced in the UK stays in the UK... And at some point even if it wanted to do otherwise, Johnson could force freeze all exports (with the EU threatened first, probably another faux pas since it affects Canada and a bunch of "less fortunate" countries, but not actually the UK)	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	and that's about mRNA esp BNT	18:32
de-facto	yes i remember the same	18:33
LjL	s/LEDs/yields/	18:33
* LjL is not good at phone typing		18:33
DocScrutinizer05	for vector vaccines it's a commonly known well established effect that delayed 2nd shot _improves_ total final efficiency	18:33
pwr22	Yeah but by how much?	18:35
LjL	DocScrutinizer05: de-facto: last week delivered some first hard facts iirc <- what were these? About AZ? I might have seen it but I don't remember	18:35
pwr22	There is possibly a time that is too long and the effectiveness drops	18:35
de-facto	LjL, wow you are typing all that on the phone?	18:35
pwr22	it's not just gonna by a curve to infinity	18:35
LjL	Yeah	18:35
de-facto	you are blazing fast then	18:35
LjL	You can tell by the fact I capitalize words ;)	18:35
LjL	pwr22: I think the practical issue here is that what "delaying the second shot" actually means is, instead of keeping enough vaccines in storage to give all boosters to people who had the first jab, the UK is using everything for the first shot. So 12 weeks may end up being just an arbitrary deadline that may or may not be respected, depending on how many doses actually become available over time...	18:37
LjL	de-facto: pretty sure I'm a sloth compared to any teenager these days :p	18:38
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Dialysis patients have four-fold greater risk of dying from COVID-19: People undergoing long-term dialysis are almost 4 times more likely to die from COVID-19 and should be prioritized for vaccination, found a new Ontario study published in CMAJ (Canadian Medical Association Journal). → https://is.gd/YkFTAf	18:38
de-facto	when i type on the phone at least 10% of the words are misspelled and me getting bad mood because my fingers wont fit on that touchscreen keyboard, i absolutely hate that	18:38
pwr22	<LjL "pwr22: I think the practical iss"> Yeah, I don't think they should pre-reserve the second shots but I do think as soon as people hit the 3 week point then they go back into the queue as though they are a person at their vulnerability for the second shot	18:40
pwr22	So it might be delayed, but it's likely not gonna take 8 additional weeks since if they got the first shot earlier then they are a priority	18:41
pwr22	That's what I thought "not pre-allocating the second shot" meant but then it seemed to change	18:41
pwr22	When my dad had his second shot I think he was booked for a second too, or told to call up, the time he was given is 10+ weeks from the first jab	18:41
pwr22	the British Medical Association are (or at least were) of the view that beyond 8 weeks is not justifiable and potentially harmful to outcomes	18:42
IndoAnon	>In November 2020, some 400 toddlers had been diagnosed with COVID-19, by February that number had jumped to more than 5,800; health experts attribute massive increase to recently discovered mutations of pathogen	18:51
IndoAnon	>Israel has seen a worrying rise in the number of coronavirus infections in teens, small children and even toddlers over the past few months, mainly due to the emergence of a number of variants of the pathogen in the country.	18:51
IndoAnon	>Last November, some 400 toddlers under the age of two were diagnosed with COVID-19. By February, the number of infected toddlers had jumped to more than 5,800 - despite the third nationwide closure and Israel’s much-lauded mass vaccination campaign.	18:51
IndoAnon	https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1X7R4Kgd	18:51
IndoAnon	%title	18:52
Brainstorm	IndoAnon: From www.ynetnews.com: Israel sees alarming leap in child coronavirus cases	18:52
DocScrutinizer05	IndoAnon: sorry I can't read light green on white text	18:59
Arsanerit	Now that's going to put fuel on the flames of the "reopen kindergardens" "debate".	19:00
LjL	DocScrutinizer05, i think you'll just get my ZNC from VERSION :P	19:00
LjL	sure now everyone go ahead and version me -.-	19:01
Arsanerit	it reports both actually	19:01
IndoAnon	just read from the source bro	19:03
Brainstorm	Updates for Albania: +1052 cases (now 81993), +14 deaths (now 1418) since a day ago — Italy: +13656 cases (now 2.6 million), +421 deaths (now 90241) since 23 hours ago	19:04
Brainstorm	New from r/Coronavirus: I’m Will Humble, Arizona’s Former State Health Director, and currently run the Arizona Public Health Association. AMA!: Will Humble is the Executive Director for the Arizona Public Health Association. He has been very outspoken about the state’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic and has repeatedly asked state leaders to [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/OBjMRK	19:15
de-facto	IndoAnon, well that means we URGENTLY need to start vaccination trials on the very young children too if they can get it and also get sick from the pathogen	19:22
CoronaBot	/r/covid19: Myths of Vaccine Manufacturing (80 votes) \| https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/02/02/myths-of-vaccine-manufacturing \| https://redd.it/lc3l4u	19:22
de-facto	afaik there are some trials with the mRNA vaccines running in young people was it at 12 or 16 years or such?	19:23
IndoAnon	It would be great if phase 3 trial include that	19:27
IndoAnon	Unfortunately, they don't	19:28
de-facto	they are very careful with that because "children are not small adults" so they might behave completely different (hence just a lower dose and expecting everything goes fine is completely wrong)	19:28
de-facto	hopefully it will be possible to protect them with vaccination too, or we really REALLY have to get incidence down now	19:29
LjL	de-facto, it also means that whatever we thought about schools before (yes, we already thought they should be closed, but at the same time where were some indications that children themselves were less likely to get it / spread it) should be revised, if the variants affect younger people differently	19:32
de-facto	yeah i was just thinking about that, they said that before also in SA and UK?	19:32
de-facto	that the new variants may also have more effect on children, but afair some also commented on that it may just appear to be like that due to "founders effect" (meaning it just happened to be the new strain to be at the right place at the right time to start a new outbreak in their social bubble)	19:34
LjL	i don't remember about other countries	19:34
LjL	they were also talking about "founder effect" for the reason the variants seemed to be gaining ground at all	19:35
LjL	i always thought "meh"	19:35
de-facto	well yeah if its more prevalent it "at least" has to be founders effect, but then why havent we observed that before the new variants?	19:36
de-facto	like why havent we observed outbreaks in small children before? id guess its pretty save to assume tests had been done already to investigate prevalence among them, so maybe it just became symptomatic with the new variants or such?	19:38
IndoAnon	That's the rational explanation. And, I expect a pre-print about the strains	19:42
de-facto	yeah probably from Israel if they observed it there, easily could become a highly cited paper, especially with all the openings considered in some future when prevalence came down	19:43
IndoAnon	de-facto, you might want to respond to this https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/306558175#p306584196	19:57
IndoAnon	%title	19:57
Brainstorm	IndoAnon: From boards.4chan.org: /pol/ - /cvg/ - Corona Virus General #5320 - Politically Incorrect - 4chan	19:57
LjL	so, in places where we're finding clusters of the UK variants (or other variants for that matter), we're just quarantining individual people as always, but we aren't closing down movement from that place. way to show we haven't learned anything.	20:17
de-facto	IndoAnon, BCG shot instead of proper SARS-CoV-2 vaccine?	20:18
IndoAnon	"""vaccine""', de-facto.	20:19
IndoAnon	It's not a proper vaccine, based on what's written in our elementary, middle, senior high school biology book	20:20
LjL	IndoAnon, uh, 1) that's bollocks 2) even if you decide to scarequote "vaccine", you certainly aren't going to enforce that on others	20:21
Brainstorm	New from ProPublica: Rich Investors Stripped Millions From a Hospital Chain and Want to Leave It Behind. A Tiny State Stands in Their Way.: by Peter Elkind ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re published. In a David-and-Goliath battle, a group of Rhode Island [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/2nf2mJ	20:24
IndoAnon	LjL: yes, i know	20:27
IndoAnon	Again, this has happened about 9-10 months ago. Whether applying soap suffice, or whether you should rinse it with soap	20:30
IndoAnon	Nobody is going to vandalize every school book that has been printed in recent history (50-70 years)	20:33
Brainstorm	Updates for Switzerland: +13 deaths (now 9552) since 5 hours ago — Canada: +2437 cases (now 792489) since 22 hours ago	20:37
de-facto	Idk what you have against the COVID-19 vaccines, they show better efficiency for protecting against symptomatic disease than many other vaccines against other diseases, so i think its quite fair to call them proper vaccines, especially since they got official (preliminary) approval from many agencies already.	20:48
de-facto	thats exactly why i prefer to stay with evidence based medicine with statistics on trials instead of proposing BCG shots or other experiments that may or may not work	20:49
de-facto	and its difficult to do such trials on very young children (if possible at all), how to ask them for adverse effects?	20:50
de-facto	if it cries, only due to some "not feeling well" or does it have some localized pain? how to determine that?	20:50
de-facto	its not so easy as in adults and obviously has to be done with much greater care	20:50
de-facto	idk if that even is possible at all to do that in time	20:51
IndoAnon	https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/306558175#p306589690 de-facto	20:51
de-facto	probably protecting them by shielding them from the pathogen might also work	20:51
de-facto	i dont want to read on 4chan anymore, its not my corner	20:52
IndoAnon	ok? copy paste?	20:52
de-facto	idk i dont like proxy convos	20:53
IndoAnon	>Yes, since you'd get to prime CD4+ and CD8+ T cells (what effectively and ultimately deals with minimizing the severity of the disease) against SARS-CoV-2 without taking risks with pathogenic priming that could happen if your immune system were to face SARS-2 virus' spike protein from the vaccine(s):	20:53
IndoAnon	>Immunogenic peptides in viruses or bacteria that match human proteins are good candidates for pathogenic priming peptides	20:53
IndoAnon	>If all of the parts of the epitopes that are homologous to human proteins are excluded from consideration due to risk of pathogenic priming, the remaining immunogenic parts of the epitopes may be still immunogenic and remain as potentially viable candidates for vaccine development https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7142689/	20:53
IndoAnon	>[Molecular Mimicry] between SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoprotein and mammalian proteomes: implications for the vaccine >Of the 33 peptides from SARS-CoV-2 that mimic the human reference proteome, 20 peptides are not found in any previous human-infecting coronavirus (SARS, MERS, or seasonal HCoVs)	20:53
IndoAnon	>Such a peptide commonality is unexpected and highly improbable from a mathematical point of view https://archive.vn/PG6b6	20:53
IndoAnon	>[Human–viral molecular mimicry] Benchmarking evolutionary tinkering underlying human–viral molecular mimicry shows multiple host pulmonary–arterial peptides mimicked by SARS-CoV-2 https://archive.vn/Lwr9k	20:54
IndoAnon	>An Autoantigen Atlas from Human Lung HFL1 Cells Offers Clues to Neurological and Diverse Autoimmune Manifestations of SARS-2>https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.24.427965v1	20:54
IndoAnon	>It shows even in vivo: New-Onset IgG Autoantibodies in Hospitalized Patients with SARS-2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.27.21250559v1	20:54
IndoAnon	>Distinct Autoimmune Antibody Signatures Between Hospitalized Acute SARS-2 Patients, SARS-CoV-2 Convalescent Individuals and Unexposed Pre-Pandemic Controls https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.21.21249176v1	20:54
de-facto	so what does all that mean in one sentence?	20:59
IndoAnon	another one https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201203/Vaccination-against-tuberculosis-has-influence-on-the-epidemiology-of-COVID-19.aspx	21:02
IndoAnon	%title	21:02
Brainstorm	IndoAnon: From www.news-medical.net: Vaccination against tuberculosis has influence on the epidemiology of COVID-19	21:02
IndoAnon	As you said >thats exactly why i prefer to stay with evidence based medicine with statistics on trials instead of proposing BCG shots or other experiments that may or may not work	21:03
IndoAnon	>other experiments that may or may not work	21:04
IndoAnon	https://www.rt.com/news/514512-switzerland-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-data/	21:11
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Alcohol deaths hit record high during Covid pandemic → https://is.gd/NNiEFI	21:20
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Diseases, Conditions, Syndromes: Major medical groups urge Americans to get COVID vaccine → https://is.gd/TeiZkS	21:44
Brainstorm	Updates for Spain: +20531 cases (now 2.9 million), +432 deaths (now 60802) since a day ago — France: +168 deaths (now 77763) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +2529 cases (now 996624) since 20 hours ago	21:45
LjL	IndoAnon, please use a pastebin if you're pasting so much stuff in one go... (and if someone really doesn't want to discuss it anyway, maybe there is no point)	21:55
IndoAnon	I am willing to discuss. A product should suit the name it bear, or it would be misleading...	22:02
LjL	yes, because what a vaccine is is totally defined by your schoolbooks	22:05
LjL	that's where science is done, schoolbooks	22:05
LjL	give me a brea	22:05
IndoAnon	sure	22:09
IndoAnon	It's like wikipedia hasn't been overriden by interest groups	22:11
IndoAnon	nor scientist were in control of scientific body, not politicians	22:12
fran	IndoAnon: when I did research on my university, I never had any influence from any government or interest group... if anything the pressure was that we were required to have some students among us	22:15
fran	but, tbh it's a state owned university so there's no economic interest	22:16
IndoAnon	awww	22:16
IndoAnon	wait, eh	22:17
IndoAnon	How does vaccine eradicate pathogens, making it extinct?	22:20
LjL	So everything I can show you has been taken over by interest groups and only your schoolbooks can be trusted as to what a vaccine is?	22:29
fran	I wonder who writes those schoolbooks	22:34
IndoAnon	LjL, try looking at the log	22:35
IndoAnon	Don't you remember that wikipedia was edited subsequently after tedros declared the toll of spanish flu? people change the number of the death toll, instead of using almost-a-decade book citation	22:38
lazysundaydreams	%cases Czechia	22:49
Brainstorm	lazysundaydreams: In Czechia, there have been 1.0 million confirmed cases (9.5% of the population) and 16826 deaths (1.7% of cases) as of 13 hours ago. 6.4 million tests were performed (15.9% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 1.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Czechia for time series data.	22:49
Brainstorm	Updates for United Kingdom: +19864 cases (now 3.9 million), +915 deaths (now 110250) since 20 hours ago	23:19
Brainstorm	New from FDA Press Releases: FDA: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Continues Important Work to Support Medical Product Development to Address New Virus Variants → https://is.gd/kvwh6K	23:42
Brainstorm	New from StatNews: Johnson & Johnson submits application for Covid-19 vaccine to FDA: Pharmaceutical giant Johnson & Johnson said Thursday it has applied to the FDA for an emergency use authorization for its one-dose Covid-19 vaccine, setting in motion a process that is… → https://is.gd/5hb93a	23:54

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