| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Study: China Escapes Scrutiny in TV’s Coronavirus Coverage → https://is.gd/4Fm0r5 | 00:11 |
|---|---|---|
| george_groid[m] | HOAX | 00:20 |
| rpifan | whihc one | 00:20 |
| george_groid[m] | the controllavirus | 00:21 |
| george_groid[m] | convid-1984 | 00:21 |
| george_groid[m] | scamdemic | 00:21 |
| rpifan | how so | 00:22 |
| george_groid[m] | operation lockstep, event 201 | 00:23 |
| rpifan | ? | 00:23 |
| george_groid[m] | crimson contagion | 00:23 |
| george_groid[m] | look these up nigga | 00:23 |
| george_groid[m] | two of them were pandemic drills months before the first convid case | 00:24 |
| george_groid[m] | operation lockstep was a 2012 rockefeller document called scenarios for the future which spreaks of global authoritarianism modeled after china after a pandemic | 00:25 |
| george_groid[m] | https://www.corbettreport.com/pandemic-video/ | 00:26 |
| george_groid[m] | ^This is what the "cospiracy theorists" were saying in 2012 | 00:26 |
| * th0mcat uploaded a video: (967KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/thomcat.rocks/pgBVPInshuuYipdgxpmOdNXl/yt1s.com%20-%20No%20One%20Cares_360p.mp4 > | 00:29 | |
| Brainstorm | New from WHO Euro: WHO Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety (GACVS) COVID-19 subcommittee reviews safety signals related to the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine: The GACVS COVID-19 subcommittee met virtually on 16 and 19 March 2021 to review available information and data on thromboembolic events (blood clots) and thrombocytopenia (low platelets) [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/UU7bNN | 00:52 |
| Brainstorm | New preprint: A machine learning platform to estimate anti-SARS-CoV-2 activities by Govinda KC et al, made available as preprint on 2021-03-19 at https://api.figshare.com/v2/articles/12915779 | 01:04 |
| de-facto | https://www.pei.de/EN/newsroom/hp-news/2021/210319-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-safety-assessment-result-vaccine-safe-and-effective.html | 01:09 |
| de-facto | .title | 01:09 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.pei.de: Paul-Ehrlich-Institut - News - COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca – Safety Assessment Result: The Vaccine is Safe and Effective in the Fight against COVID-19 | 01:09 |
| de-facto | hmm this is interesting | 01:23 |
| de-facto | https://gth-online.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/GTH_Stellungnahme_AstraZeneca_3_19032021.pdf | 01:25 |
| de-facto | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https://gth-online.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/GTH_Stellungnahme_AstraZeneca_3_19032021.pdf | 01:25 |
| de-facto | LjL, what do you think about this? ^^ | 01:26 |
| de-facto | "An important pathomechanism has meanwhile been clarified within the GTH under the leadership of the Greifswald working group around Andreas Greinacher. The vaccination is likely to lead to the formation of antibodies against platelet antigens as part of the inflammatory reaction and immune stimulation." | 01:35 |
| de-facto | "Depending on or independently of heparin, these antibodies then induce massive platelet activation via the Fc receptor in analogy to heparin-induced thrombocytopenia (HIT). This mechanism (HIT mimicry) could be demonstrated in four patients with a sinus / cerebral vein thrombosis after vaccination with the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine in the laboratory of Andreas Greinacher in cooperation with other GTH members. As with classic HIT, | 01:36 |
| de-facto | these antibodies appear 4–16 days after vaccination." | 01:36 |
| de-facto | "In the event of thrombocytopenia and / or evidence of thrombosis, testing for heparin-induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) should be carried out regardless of previous exposure to heparin. This test is based on the immunological detection of antibodies against the complex of platelet factor 4 (PF4) and heparin." | 01:39 |
| LjL | de-facto: I don't know, do they explain why this would happen only with AZ and not Pfizer? Are these antibodies created against the adenovirus? | 01:40 |
| de-facto | "Until (autoimmune) HIT has been ruled out, if the clinical situation, availability and experience permit, anticoagulation with heparins should be avoided and alternative, HIT-compatible preparations should be used. An (autoimmune) HIT is formally excluded only if the functional confirmation test (e.g. HIPA) turns out negative." | 01:40 |
| de-facto | "In patients with confirmed autoimmune HIT and critical thromboses such as sinus / cerebral vein thrombosis, the prothrombotic pathomechanism can very likely be interrupted by the administration of high-dose intravenous immunoglobulins (IVIG), e.g. at a dose of 1 g / kg body weight per day on two consecutive days become." | 01:41 |
| de-facto | "Regardless of the cause and the results of a test for PF4 / heparin antibodies, alternative causes of thrombocytopenia and / or thrombosis must be considered and further clarified accordingly. These include, for example, thrombotic microangiopathy (iTTP, aHUS), antiphospholipid syndrome, paroxysmal nocturnal hemoglobinuria and underlying malignant (haematological) diseases." | 01:42 |
| de-facto | btw they put emphasis on that this is very rare | 01:43 |
| de-facto | but i thought its interesting because its the first explanation i read about this | 01:44 |
| de-facto | they also state (as EMA and PEI and all the others too) | 01:44 |
| de-facto | "The positive effects of vaccination with the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine outweigh the negative effects, so that the resumption of vaccinations in Germany with this vaccine is to be welcomed." | 01:44 |
| LjL | Yes I've heard that only a thousand time | 01:45 |
| LjL | Meanwhile Finland suspended the vaccine today | 01:45 |
| LjL | Must be the Nordic winter, makes them all weird | 01:45 |
| de-facto | i think they are talking about this here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heparin-induced_thrombocytopenia | 01:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +25707 cases (now 3.3 million), +386 deaths (now 104241) since a day ago — Somalia: +325 cases (now 9925), +22 deaths (now 414) since a day ago — Curacao: +156 cases (now 5676) since a day ago — Yemen: +91 cases (now 3217), +10 deaths (now 733) since a day ago | 01:48 |
| de-facto | LjL, good question why AZ and not BNT | 01:49 |
| de-facto | i dont know what to think about this, its rare (1 in 100k according to PEI, f/m = 12/1) but it would be very good if that was understood in more detail because then it would be treatable, hence minimizing the impact of even those rare cases | 01:52 |
| LjL | de-facto: I don't understand though, are they saying that the people who were affected by this AZ issue had been taking heparin? Or they had HIT for some other strange reason? | 01:58 |
| LjL | Ah no sorry you did say it's a HIT "mimicry" thing | 01:59 |
| LjL | Well surely they should check for this antibodies in a lot more people then | 02:00 |
| de-facto | not sure but i think they have seen those antibodies (as in HIT) but dont associate it with giving heparin i guess, otherwise they would say so | 02:00 |
| LjL | The Wikipedia article says "After vascular surgery, 34% of patients receiving heparin developed HIT antibodies without clinical symptoms.[15]" | 02:00 |
| LjL | So maybe a lot of people are also developing HIT antibodies after AZ, only, fortunately, without symptoms in most cases | 02:01 |
| de-facto | i am not sure they propose that | 02:03 |
| de-facto | "The vaccination is likely to lead to the formation of antibodies against platelet antigens as part of the inflammatory reaction and immune stimulation." | 02:03 |
| de-facto | so they say it *leads* to those antibodies in those rare cases | 02:04 |
| de-facto | hence the delay i guess | 02:04 |
| de-facto | "As with classic HIT, these antibodies appear 4–16 days after vaccination." | 02:05 |
| de-facto | so once they appear in those rare cases | 02:05 |
| de-facto | "Depending on or independently of heparin, these antibodies then induce massive platelet activation via the Fc receptor in analogy to heparin-induced thrombocytopenia (HIT). This mechanism (HIT mimicry) could be demonstrated in four patients with a sinus / cerebral vein thrombosis after vaccination" | 02:05 |
| de-facto | so they have seen that in *some* of the cases | 02:06 |
| de-facto | i guess its a first suspicion quite worth further investigation | 02:06 |
| de-facto | curious question: what would happen if AZ would be injected directly/partly into a blood vessel? what would happen if mRNA would be injected directly into a blood vessel? | 02:09 |
| de-facto | how would the induced immune reaction differ between the ChAdOx1 Adenovirus particles (e.g. in AZD-1222) and the LipidNanoParticles (LNPs e.g. of BNT162b2)? | 02:11 |
| de-facto | and another curious question: if that would not correlate, is there anything immunological that could be tested for predicting reactions such as those 'mimic' HIT? | 02:13 |
| de-facto | idk if all that will solidify, its just interesting (and was released today) | 02:14 |
| de-facto | again, its a possible explanation for some of those very rare cases, so i guess that would be good news if it solidifies | 02:16 |
| * de-facto needs to get some sleep, gn8 | 02:16 | |
| LjL | Night | 02:17 |
| LjL | Hopefully they won't just sweep it under the rug since they've decided to resume vaccination | 02:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: @tomkinsc tomkinsc: Detection of the recurrent substitution Q677H in the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 in cases descended from the lineage B.1.429 → https://is.gd/pXicaj | 02:24 |
| LjL | %tell de-facto https://github.com/google/exposure-notifications-internals/issues/27#issuecomment-802653811 | 02:27 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I'll pass de-facto your message when they are around. | 02:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: AstraZeneca: German team claims to discover thrombosis trigger → https://is.gd/6jsxG9 | 03:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 Aid Supported by Majority of Americans, Pew Research Center Says → https://is.gd/WtLOPl | 03:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Scientists probe new theories on whether AstraZeneca shot linked to blood clots → https://is.gd/2UOokW | 03:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: UK PM Johnson gets his first dose of AstraZeneca vaccine → https://is.gd/3i1gJf | 03:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: Rich states 'block' vaccine plans for developing nations → https://is.gd/3Vsslj | 04:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 733: COVID-19 clinical update #54 with Dr. Daniel Griffin: In COVID-19 clinical update #54, Daniel Griffin covers effectiveness of 3 vs 6 ft physical distancing, effectiveness of masks, physical distancing, and eye shields, second vaccine dose completion, alleviation of COVID-19 symptoms after vaccination, vaccine [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zmMDqC | 05:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for St. Barthelemy: +63 cases (now 775) since 7 days ago — Netherlands: +5341 cases (now 1.2 million), +32 deaths (now 16261) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +5202 cases (now 4.3 million), +99 deaths (now 126120) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +3015 cases (now 925929) since 23 hours ago | 05:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Ecuador health minister resigns after less than 3 weeks as prosecutors probe vaccine rollout → https://is.gd/YneRDR | 06:02 |
| Brainstorm | New preprint: A combined strategy to detect plasma samples reliably with high anti-SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibody titers in routine laboratories by Bastian Fischer et al, made available as preprint on 2021-03-19 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2021.03.15.21253588 [... want %more?] | 06:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: China’s first local coronavirus case since Feb was vaccinated – state media → https://is.gd/NWZuWc | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | March 20, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/iYJjMJ | 08:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virology.ws: Trial By Error: Another Excellent Read on Long Covid, ME/CFS and Medically Unexplained Symptoms: By David Tuller, DrPH In a post earlier this week, I noted some differences in the tenor of the debate over Long Covid in the US and UK. Yesterday, another excellent and in-depth piece on the issues appeared on the domestic front, this [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/KqX7i9 | 08:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India coronavirus cases surge to four-month high, some lockdowns return → https://is.gd/cgSrQi | 08:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Number Of Seafarers Impacted By Crew Change Crisis On The Rise Due To New COVID-Variants → https://is.gd/soehCK | 09:38 |
| Synapsestorm | ❗ 地震 警報 / EARTHQUAKE WARNING for Near East Coast Of Honshu, Japan (just felt near Onagawa Chō?) — Follow for updates (www.kmoni.bosai.go.jp) | 10:10 |
| -Synapsestorm- ❔ M7- estimated tremor, possibly occurred 6 minutes ago (09:09:44 UTC), during twilight, Onagawa Chō, Japan (38.45, 141.65) ± 5 km, ↓60 km likely felt 480 km away (in 石巻市, 仙台市, 登米市, 気仙沼市, 大崎市…) by 2.5 million people — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1582788288 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1327146700 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1581033812 (www.kmoni.bosai.go.jp) | 10:16 | |
| -Synapsestorm- ❔ M7+ estimated tremor, possibly occurred 6 minutes ago (09:09:44 UTC), during twilight, Onagawa Chō, Japan (38.45, 141.7) ± 4 km, ↓60 km likely felt 600 km away — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1582788288 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1327146700 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1581033812 (www.kmoni.bosai.go.jp) | 10:16 | |
| -Synapsestorm- ⭕ 地震! Earthquake! 7.0 M tremor, registered by yurekuru, occurred 7 minutes ago (09:09:45 UTC), during twilight, Onagawa Chō, Japan (38.5, 141.7), ↓60 km likely felt 530 km away → https://twitter.com/yurekuru/status/1373200160491069445 — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1582788288 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1327146700 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1581033812 (Twitter) | 10:18 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: EU countries to restart use of ‘safe and effective’ AstraZeneca vaccine → https://is.gd/D8nplx | 10:19 |
| -Synapsestorm- ⭕ 地震! Earthquake! 7.2 Mw tremor, registered by EMSC,PT, occurred 20 minutes ago (09:09:47 UTC), during twilight, Onagawa Chō, Japan (38.48, 141.55) ± 11 km, ↓65 km likely felt 600 km away (in 石巻市, 仙台市, 登米市, 大崎市, 東松島市…) by 2.6 million people with 20 nearby reactors — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1327146700 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1582788288 https://www.wi | 10:31 | |
| -Synapsestorm- (www.seismicportal.eu) | 10:31 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Scientist behind COVID-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer → https://is.gd/WNVAjy | 10:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Pakistan PM Imran Khan tests positive for Covid-19, says health minister → https://is.gd/Rf8jxc | 11:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Brazilian President Bolsonaro attempts to silence critics of his handling of Covid-19 using a military dictatorship era national security law → https://is.gd/rUAdE6 | 12:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: As vaccinations lag, Italy's elderly again pay a price: One year ago, Bergamo's state-of-the-art Pope John XXIII Hospital verged on collapse as doctors struggled to treat 600 patients, with 100 of them in intensive care. Army trucks ferried the dead from the city's overtaxed crematorium in images now seared into the collective [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/IRarXQ | 13:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: In Brazil, COVID increasingly hitting the young: Leading the morning medical meeting at an intensive care unit in Sao Paulo, Jaques Sztajnbok reviews his COVID-19 patients. → https://is.gd/g8wnrg | 13:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Overseas Spectators Will Be Banned From Tokyo Olympics Due To COVID-19 Risks: Tokyo organizers on Saturday announced that foreign spectators will be barred from attending this year's Olympic and Paralympic Games due to concerns over COVID-19. → https://is.gd/g6dIZR | 14:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American: Health: We Need Social Science, Not Just Medical Science, to Beat the Pandemic → https://is.gd/Ez7zbk | 15:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pakistan PM Khan tests positive for COVID-19, urges people to vaccinate → https://is.gd/wi2Sjq | 15:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: No international fans will be permitted at the delayed 2020 Tokyo Olympics and Paralympics this summer because of concerns over the coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/AIeZia | 15:55 |
| zutto | %cases Finland | 16:50 |
| Brainstorm | zutto: In Finland, there have been 70267 confirmed cases (1.3% of the population) and 805 deaths (1.1% of cases) as of a day ago. 3.7 million tests were performed (1.9% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.8% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 1.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Finland for time series data. | 16:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Rising Covid-19 cases in some states highlight ‘precarious position’ as variants build up in U.S.: What’s occurring could be the start of what experts had warned about: localized springtime Covid-19 outbreaks that, while not on the scale of the winter surges, will lead to more… → https://is.gd/7Ij7UY | 16:57 |
| LjL | "Chancellor Angela Merkel said Friday Germany will have to apply an “emergency brake” and reverse some recent relaxations of restrictions as coronavirus infections accelerate." | 17:35 |
| LjL | If only it could have been foreseen | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: New Lockdowns In Europe As COVID-19 Cases Soar; Pakistan's PM Tests Positive: Several European countries have imposed new lockdown restrictions as COVD-19 cases soar. In Pakistan, Prime Minister Imran Khan is self-isolating at home after testing positive for the virus. → https://is.gd/yaI0M1 | 17:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: EU may have 'relied a little bit too much on the free market' for vaccines, top scientist says → https://is.gd/MMMpnb | 18:52 |
| rpifan | seems we are going back to hard lockdown | 18:53 |
| rpifan | de-facto, | 18:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pakistan prime minister tests positive for COVID-19 → https://is.gd/EHJLVJ | 19:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: No vaccines, no leadership, no end in sight. How Brazil became a global threat → https://is.gd/n8F2Pq | 19:33 |
| de-facto | of course, it was pre-determined by opening without concept and ignoring the data from the B.1.1.7 mutant. they knew this would happen because they have been briefed by their modelers and epidemiologists. | 19:34 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: At 2021-03-20 01:27:43 UTC, LjL told you: https://github.com/google/exposure-notifications-internals/issues/27#issuecomment-802653811 | 19:34 |
| de-facto | interesting, yes it should be completely open source with reproducible builds | 19:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: Summer holidays abroad 'unlikely', warns government adviser → https://is.gd/rKtBzC | 19:53 |
| voltage_ | what is the current fatality rate of covid? | 20:00 |
| ecks | around 2.2% for all confirmed cases | 20:01 |
| de-facto | it strongly depends on age | 20:02 |
| voltage_ | im asking infection fatality rate not case fatality rate | 20:02 |
| de-facto | IFR(age) = Exp[ Log[2] age / 5.75] / 186200 | 20:02 |
| de-facto | hence doubles with each increase of age by 5.75 years | 20:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Fauci says U.K. variant may account for up to 30% of U.S. coronavirus infections → https://is.gd/zAlbU9 | 20:03 |
| de-facto | .title https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-020-00698-1 | 20:05 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From link.springer.com: Assessing the age specificity of infection fatality rates for COVID-19: systematic review, meta-analysis, and public policy implications | SpringerLink | 20:05 |
| de-facto | its exactly the same equation but written a bit differently in their paper | 20:06 |
| de-facto | meaning IFR[85.8] ~ 1/6 hence about the same as playing russian roulette with a revolver with 6 slots 5 empty but one containing the lethal outcome | 20:09 |
| de-facto | So IFR(age) = Exp[ Log[2] age / 5.75] / 186200 < 1 is normalized to 1 and Log[2] meaning the natural logarithm | 20:10 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Update link from preprint to published study; add some information ab… ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/5a5e369dc662622ba157648e3279041d72909e0e ) | 20:20 | |
| pwr22 | LjL: I'm really unhappy because yesterday my younger brother and sister were forced into school and threatened with criminal charged if they didn't, even though they've been exempted by a GP because my dad is very vulnerable | 20:23 |
| pwr22 | And a girl in my brothers class got a positive covid test on Thursday! | 20:23 |
| pwr22 | And the class is still running, kids are not distancing, either have masks below their noses or not on at all and my brothers friend he was spending lots of time around is close with the girl who is now covid positive | 20:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Update link from preprint to published study; add some information ab… → https://is.gd/OJ162G | 20:24 |
| LjL | pwr22, you mentioned that some days ago, really disheartening they aren't even heeding a doctor's exemption. i guess it sounds like something one could sue about, but not much point in paying for lawyers when the risks are happening well before any court can settle the issue | 20:25 |
| LjL | although maybe a lawyer could obtain a preliminary injunction or something to take the threat of criminal charges if they don't go to school right now away | 20:25 |
| LjL | urgh https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/m9dwt5/covid19_the_eight_patients_carrying_the_breton/ | 20:27 |
| LjL | %tr <fr D’après l’ARS Bretagne, il n’y a "pas de lien causalité établi entre ces huit décès et le nouveau variant", d’où l’importance des études épidémiologiques qui vont être menées. Baptisé "20C", ce variant est "sous surveillance" de la DGS, notamment parce qu’il serait difficilement détectable par les tests PCR. | 20:28 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, French to English: According to ARS Bretagne, there is "no established causal link between these eight deaths and the new variant", hence the importance of the epidemiological studies to be carried out. Called "20C", this variant is "under surveillance" by the DGS, in particular because it would be difficult to detect by PCR tests. (Google) [... want %more?] | 20:28 |
| LjL | %tr <fr En effet, au sein du centre hospitalier de Lannion, plusieurs patients présentant des symptômes typiques du covid ont pourtant été testés négatifs. | 20:28 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, French to English: In fact, within the Lannion hospital center, several patients presenting symptoms typical of covid have nevertheless tested negative. (Google) — At effect, at the heart of the hospitable centre of *Lannion, @plusieurs #patient featuring of the typical symptoms of the *covid #have #be however @tester negative. (Apertium) | 20:28 |
| Steve[m]2 | <pwr22 "LjL: I'm really unhappy because "> My Daughters school she is in secondary school have been quite good so far we sent her for the first day and we weren't happy so said she will come back when the threat level is lower , I'm very high risk and despite having the first shot of the vaccine still concerned about the spread of the virus | 20:29 |
| LjL | Steve[m]2, which vaccine did you get? | 20:29 |
| LjL | also how long ago | 20:29 |
| pwr22 | Steve LjL I'm pretty sure the school is breaking the law, not following the rules and needlessly endangering lives | 20:31 |
| pwr22 | But I'm not really sure what to do, thinking of writing to the press | 20:32 |
| Steve[m]2 | <voltage_ "im asking infection fatality rat"> That's hard to know because we only know if someone is infected by testing them a positive response is then counted as a case, actual infection rates may be quite a bit higher | 20:32 |
| LjL | pwr22, i guess that's a cheaper alternative to lawyers. i didn't say it but i was thinking that too. | 20:32 |
| Steve[m]2 | <pwr22 "Steve LjL I'm pretty sure the s"> Where do you live? Im in Scotland and most schools seem understanding but I know in England you can get fined etc for not sending your child to school | 20:34 |
| LjL | if it's only going to be a fine maybe it can just be paid and then lawyers/press can be drawn to the matter. but i got the understanding there's a risk they'd actually take the children away to social services | 20:36 |
| Steve[m]2 | Going to the papers may be a good idea, schools went back in Scotland first and we are the only UK country to see an increase in cases coincidence or not? | 20:36 |
| LjL | hard to tell | 20:36 |
| LjL | but hard to understand such a level of inflexibility where even a highly vulnerable person is threatened with criminal action for not feeling comfortable sending the children they live with to school in person | 20:37 |
| LjL | there are many places where schools are open but parents can still elect to do remote schooling | 20:37 |
| pwr22 | <Steve[m]2 "Where do you live? Im in Scotlan"> Wiltshire down south is where the school is | 20:37 |
| LjL | that seems nothing short of reasonable | 20:37 |
| Steve[m]2 | <pwr22 "Wiltshire down south is where th"> That's shocking you get fined for mixing in another person's house yet they are happy to have kids from lots of different households meet up , the kids up here are being encouraged to do a lateral flow test weekly however it's optional and the anti vaxxers parents are not letting them do ir | 20:41 |
| pwr22 | 😟 | 20:41 |
| LjL | pwr22, also i suspect you're not much of a social media type, but sometimes these things become viral scandal when people are able to get attention on social media (then the press picks up on it too) | 20:43 |
| Steve[m]2 | Hope you get something sorted can you contact Ofsted, would you be happier if they tested every pupil complusry weekly? | 20:43 |
| de-facto | if they cant ensure the absence of harm to kids and families by proper hygiene concepts, how can they force participation? how can they not expect parents to organize boycott? | 20:44 |
| LjL | by just doing it | 20:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: New lockdowns in Europe, overseas fans banned at Tokyo Olympics: Several European countries introduced new lockdown measures Saturday as they battled surging coronavirus infections, while Tokyo Olympics organisers were forced to announce an "unavoidable" ban on overseas fans to keep the Games safe. → https://is.gd/SGuyAU | 20:44 |
| de-facto | here some cities majors tried to close but were prevented to do so by federal state ministers | 20:45 |
| de-facto | so they actively prevented them to contain the pathogen spread | 20:45 |
| de-facto | i dont understand this anymore at all | 20:45 |
| LjL | well, Sardinia here was the only "white region" (i.e. not considered to have a serious risk of epidemic spread) in the whole country, and so they wanted to stop the ability for people outside Sardinia to go there (also consider that, being an island, you have to take a ferry or a plane to get there, with further risk), but the central government stopped them because only the central government can decide on limitations to inter-region movement | 20:47 |
| de-facto | some other districts just raised the agreed upon thresholds (100 weekly infections per 100k citizens just arbitrarily raised to 200/100k) to avoid more strict containment | 20:47 |
| LjL | so now it's slated to be upgraded to "orange region" (i.e. the second level after white, directly skipping "yellow region") because things are already getting bad | 20:47 |
| LjL | Sardinians were often not so fond of so-called "continentals" already, they must utterly love us now | 20:48 |
| Steve[m]2 | Up here they are only having 2 subjects a day so for eg maths for the first 4 periods then lunch and English for the remaining 4 periods, social distancing is a must but not enforsed, face masks when in school building no leaving school grounds at break or lunch and like I said every pupil is being encouraged to have a test once a week | 20:48 |
| pwr22 | <Steve[m]2 "Hope you get something sorted ca"> I'd be happier if they just respected the medical opinion like they're supposed to | 20:49 |
| de-facto | once a week is not enough if median incubation time is around 5.2 days (half faster half slower) and the day before symptom onset being the most contagious | 20:50 |
| pwr22 | Though imo not quarantine at least the class after a pupil tests positive | 20:50 |
| LjL | once a week is more than never, which is the norm... don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good | 20:50 |
| de-facto | IF they want to open schools they MUST enforce *daily* quicktests just as for other proposed gatherings aswell | 20:50 |
| pwr22 | That's just shit | 20:51 |
| de-facto | or a PCR test every second day instead | 20:51 |
| LjL | they must? who's forcing them? if you can force them please do, but i know i can't | 20:51 |
| Steve[m]2 | Yes true especially if medical professionals agree with you, I understand where your coming from I'm high risk shielding and my wife has diabetes | 20:51 |
| LjL | pwr22, press seems like perhaps the most viable option. try to get evidence of all this misbehavior | 20:52 |
| Steve[m]2 | They can't force pupils to have tests apparently it's the parents decision and a lot of parents are saying no | 20:52 |
| LjL | yes, you'd be happier if they just didn't misbehave, but that's what they're doing | 20:53 |
| de-facto | everything else is not able to prevent spread in schools so if they enforce participation (and want to avoid enforcing harm by that) causality (or sensitivity values of tests) dictates them to test that often | 20:53 |
| de-facto | thats what i meant by "must" | 20:53 |
| Steve[m]2 | My daughter is happy to be tested every day school say once a week but even though we have permission for our daughter to have them they aren't testing | 20:54 |
| Steve[m]2 | Going for a bit nice chatting 🙂 | 20:57 |
| de-facto | so if someone is infected on the weekend and tested negative on Monday (e.g. via Quicktest), how would we know a test on Tuesday would not already be positive and s spread possible on Wednesday? | 20:57 |
| de-facto | and most of the young done even develop symptoms, afaik there were some surveys in Bavaria finding six times more seroprevalence than positive PCR swabs in school kids and that was done long time ago, so probably now with B.1.1.7 it might be different | 21:00 |
| de-facto | *and most of the young don't even develop symptoms | 21:00 |
| LjL | a paper posted recently said that people living with children weren't associated with higher incidence in the first wave, but they are now (though not by incredibly much) | 21:01 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.cell.com/med/fulltext/S2666-6340%2820%2930020-9 | 21:02 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.cell.com: A Public Health Antibody Screening Indicates a 6-Fold Higher SARS-CoV-2 Exposure Rate than Reported Cases in Children: Med | 21:02 |
| de-facto | and schools were not even open all the time then | 21:02 |
| de-facto | yes LjL i think you mean this one | 21:02 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n628 | 21:03 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.bmj.com: Association between living with children and outcomes from covid-19: OpenSAFELY cohort study of 12 million adults in England | The BMJ | 21:03 |
| LjL | yes, i think that's it | 21:03 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30785-4/fulltext | 21:20 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: The temporal association of introducing and lifting non-pharmaceutical interventions with the time-varying reproduction number (R) of SARS-CoV-2: a modelling study across 131 countries - The Lancet [...] | 21:20 |
| de-facto | "An increasing trend over time in the R ratio was found following the relaxation of school closure, bans on public events, bans on public gatherings of more than ten people, requirements to stay at home, and internal movement limits; the increase in R ranged from 11% to 25% on day 28 following the relaxation compared with the last day before relaxation, although the increase was significant only for school reopening (R ratio 1·24, 95% | 21:21 |
| de-facto | CI 1·00–1·52) and lifting bans on public gatherings of more than ten people (1·25, 1·03–1·51); for all other NPIs, the lower bound of the 95% CI was below 1. " | 21:21 |
| de-facto | problem is such things are very hard to generalize, it cant be excluded that enforcing proper hygiene concepts can prevent spread, but they also would have to include traveling from home to school and back | 21:23 |
| de-facto | and i doubt it can be ensured that children would wear FFP2 or N95 masks properly (airtight) when even not adults seem to be able to do that | 21:24 |
| de-facto | afaik we have no vaccinations for children, nor do we know how well they would protect them from transmitting the pathogen | 21:24 |
| de-facto | and how well respiratory diseases can spread in schools we know already from other colds or flu | 21:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from Shane Crotty: @profshanecrotty: "It's all a race." A conversation about COVID vaccines🔵 How do vaccines work?🔵 Why RNA vaccines?🔵 COVID vaccine efficacy🔵 RNA vaccines versus J&J 1-dose🔵 Variants🔵 COVID vaccines and pregnancy🔵 COVID vaccines in kidshttps://open.spotify.com/episode/1YN9TTeF2MxkLiXMJIiaWY?si=xemyYVktT3OPzd9gmpVB4g → https://is.gd/rGqg4r | 22:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pakistan PM Imran Khan tests positive for Covid-19 days after receiving first jab of Chinese vaccine Sinopharm → https://is.gd/sDzCzr | 22:17 |
| LjL | %title https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56469976 | 22:44 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.bbc.com: Covid-19: Mumbai to roll out compulsory testing in crowded places - BBC News | 22:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Could COVID-19 vaccination bring relief for long-haul sufferers? Researchers want to find out → https://is.gd/sKQvOE | 23:50 |
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