| finely[m] | https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct1ytz | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| finely[m] | Good info on the clotting disorder in the first 12 minutes of this podcast. If it is caught early it can be treated. | 00:17 |
| de-facto | what would happen if a vaccine would be given IV? | 00:53 |
| de-facto | anyhow, the question is if its a "signal" or not as in, compared to background expectation value does vaccination change the frequency of occurrence? | 01:00 |
| de-facto | that is for a comparison between the vaccinated group and a matched group (same age and preexisting conditions etc) | 01:01 |
| LjL | de-facto, how are you going to find a vaccinated grou pand a matched group of... depending on the actual incidence... 250k people, 500k, 1m? that's going to be a little tricky | 01:23 |
| de-facto | the try to estimate the expectation value | 01:37 |
| de-facto | "Thus, the incidence of an immunemediated thrombocytopenia post SARS-CoV-2 vaccination appears either less than or roughly comparable to what would be seen if the cases were coincidental following vaccination, perhaps enhanced somewhat by heightened surveillance of symptomatic patients. These estimates are very rough so this informationshould be considered very preliminary. It also assumes that all casesof clinically significant ITP are | 01:37 |
| de-facto | reported. " | 01:37 |
| de-facto | "n summary, we cannot exclude the possibility that the Pfizer andModerna vaccines have the potential to trigger de novo ITP (includingclinically undiagnosed cases), albeit very rarely. Distinguishingvaccine-induced ITP from coincidental ITP presenting soon after vac-cination is impossible at this time. Additional surveillance is needed todetermine the true incidence of thrombocytopenia post vaccination." | 01:40 |
| LjL | de-facto, anyway, what i noted in my response on reddit is that afaics this paper never actually talks about blood clots / thrombosis / cerebral thrombosis. it's only thrombocytopenia | 01:41 |
| LjL | and my understanding is the "Very Special" thing that happens with AZ and maybe J&J is having both things at the same time | 01:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: ‘1-in-10,000 chance’: Why it may be time to stop worrying about getting Covid-19 from surfaces → https://is.gd/0BzGxw | 01:46 |
| de-facto | yes indeed | 01:48 |
| de-facto | idk actually with all those the numbers are so low, i guess its something to keep an eye on but again the only thing that really matters is if vaccination would change the expectation value relative to an unvaccinated cohort | 01:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): England Covid lockdown eases: Boris Johnson warns people to 'behave responsibly' → https://is.gd/uLUh2h | 02:27 |
| LjL | https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/04/hard-choices-emerge-link-between-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-rare-clotting-disorder-becomes | 03:46 |
| LjL | "In Europe, at least 222 suspected cases have been reported among 34 million who have received their first dose of the vaccine. More than 30 have died." | 03:46 |
| LjL | i'm linking it just because of these numbers at this point, i haven't read the rest | 03:46 |
| LjL | it's just that 222 isn't a number i had in mind from before | 03:46 |
| LjL | i thought it was less, honestly | 03:46 |
| LjL | (i know it's still tiny) | 03:47 |
| LjL | now the article also helped me realize that the study on German+Austrian patients isn't the same as the GTH study, instead that and the Norwegian one are published on the NEJM | 03:50 |
| LjL | "on 7 April, the United Kingdom’s Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency said that it had been investigating at least 79 cases of strokes and clotting events tied to the vaccine, at least 18 of them fatal." ← this are also numbers i thought were lower in the UK | 03:53 |
| LjL | oh well it's actually Andreas Greinacher involved in all of the German studies actually | 03:56 |
| LjL | "The authors disclose conflicts of interest, including personal fees from Pfizer and other pharmaceutical companies." O.o | 03:57 |
| LjL | but they have disclosed fees from a ton of companies | 03:58 |
| LjL | de-facto, reddit comment: "Iirc there’s a difference in the spike protein used in the AstraZeneca and J and J. AZ uses a wild type spike which can take both its pre and post fusion shapes, whereas J and J’s (and Pfizer and Moderna) spike has been stabilized to maintain it’s pre fusion shape. I read a comment the other day that this unstabilized spike could be causing the severe reactions we’re seeing with AZ, anyone have more info on this?" | 04:00 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Change GTH (Andreas Greinacher) preprint into published NEJM study; a… ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/e7679d512d704cd084336629fc89571c2a5b0954 ) | 04:12 | |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Change GTH (Andreas Greinacher) preprint into published NEJM study; a… → https://is.gd/k7ql0L | 04:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: ‘The right path’ – Chile defends Sinovac use amid fresh efficacy questions → https://is.gd/LIFwPp | 04:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: China considers mixing Covid-19 vaccines to boost protection rate → https://is.gd/tYx36O | 05:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 50% Supreme Court Staff in India Test Positive For Covid → https://is.gd/y3U5VI | 06:13 |
| LjL | uh is this the new way Modi is trying to get rid of the supreme court :P | 06:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from EurekAlert!: Those who view TV and social media as trustworthy sources of COVID news -- less informed: People who trust television and Facebook to provide them with accurate news about the coronavirus pandemic are less knowledgeable about COVID-19, according to a new study, which assessed people's knowledge of the virus in the earliest stages [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Uj13QD | 06:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Pentagon scientists invent a microchip which senses COVID-19 in your body before you show symptoms → https://is.gd/msR4aX | 06:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Regeneron says antibody cocktail prevented Covid when given as simple injection, not an IV: While in previous studies, antibodies had to be given intravenously, in this one Regeneron used a formulation that could be given with an under-the-skin injection. → https://is.gd/03rtsf | 07:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Official: Chinese vaccines’ effectiveness low → https://is.gd/WWfKaP | 07:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Online schools are here to stay, even after the pandemic → https://is.gd/gtBmCt | 08:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Drained by a year of COVID, many mayors head for the exit → https://is.gd/XmyTk0 | 08:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | April 12, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/PCOL8V | 09:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India's coronavirus tally overtakes Brazil; thousands join ritual bath → https://is.gd/Vg50M9 | 09:26 |
| snake | how does the vaccine make your body raise temperature, and have aches and pains? | 09:30 |
| zutt | snake: it's normal to experience some fever after being vaccinated (this applies to many other vaccines as well) | 09:32 |
| snake | right but how | 09:32 |
| snake | the the antibodies do it somehow? | 09:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: COVID-19 vaccines versus “purity of essence”: Antivaxxers frequently make the false claim that mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines "permanently alter your DNA." These claims are really a concern about "impurifying" their "purity of essence." The post first appeared on Science-Based Medicine . → https://is.gd/ybjP1P | 09:37 |
| snake | guess the antibodies are kinda just attacking your own cells | 09:37 |
| snake | since the virus gets into your cells? | 09:38 |
| snake | so it hurts | 09:38 |
| zutt | I'm not the right person to answer this question, but it's not that simple to say it's just "antobodies attacking your own cells" | 09:40 |
| zutt | wikipedia has good reads on this, and is better for answering your question than I am: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fever https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system | 09:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: India overtakes Brazil as second worst-hit COVID-19 country: India on Monday overtook Brazil as the country with the second-highest number of coronavirus infections, as it reported a new daily record of more than 168,000 cases. → https://is.gd/LNv8Mz | 10:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Chinese official says local vaccines 'don't have high protection rates' → https://is.gd/GRxa24 | 10:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: A pint and a haircut: UK eases some virus curbs in England: Britain took another tentative step towards the resumption of normal life on Monday as pubs and restaurants were allowed to partially reopen, in a major easing of coronavirus restrictions. → https://is.gd/XxX5YM | 10:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Make it easier for employers to help get America vaccinated: Employer-aided vaccination is a part of each year's flu vaccination effort. It needs to be part of the Covid-19 effort as well. → https://is.gd/elDY1h | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Ixiaro, Japanese encephalitis vaccine (inactivated, adsorbed), Encephalitis, Japanese,Immunization, Date of authorisation: 31/03/2009, Revision: 17, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/a5liBy | 11:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India's coronavirus tally overtakes Brazil; thousands join ritual bath → https://is.gd/UtrVSK | 11:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): NHS Covid-19 app update blocked for breaking Apple and Google's rules → https://is.gd/Ikw8pi | 11:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 10 tourists from Israel, US, Mexico & Australia stuck in India were caught strolling in Tapovan area against lockdown & social distancing rules due to coronavirus. Each 1 of them had to write 500 times 'I did not follow the rules of the lockdown, I am sorry' as punishment → https://is.gd/EDyiBY | 11:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: About 40,000 young children in U.S. have lost a parent to coronavirus, a 'staggering' number: Researchers → https://is.gd/EO163p | 12:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Top Chinese official admits vaccines have low effectiveness → https://is.gd/5MFkMy | 12:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Can you test COVID positive after getting vaccinated? → https://is.gd/7snPVD | 14:06 |
| mobidrop | the answer is: yes | 14:07 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Consiglio dei Ministri n. 11 ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/consiglio-dei-ministri-n-11/16595 ) | 14:25 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Convocazione del Consiglio dei Ministri n. 11 ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/convocazione-del-consiglio-dei-ministri-n-11/16596 ) | 14:25 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: ‘The rich think they can buy what they want, even lives’: Anger over Brazil’s vaccination plan as Covid rages → https://is.gd/JhJoZj | 14:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Health Tech: STAT+: Amazon established a foothold in diagnostics during Covid-19. Now it’s doubling down → https://is.gd/Ql3twa | 14:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India: Thousands join Hindu festival ritual bath as COVID surges → https://is.gd/15D80M | 14:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Paris on lockdown after deadly hospital shooting as gunman flees on motorbike → https://is.gd/DN2Haf | 15:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Overcoming spectrum bias for accurate SARS-CoV-2 seroprevalence estimates: Repeated population based SARS-CoV-2 seroprevalence studies provide evidence on how immunity develops in a population. They are especially relevant now, as we are at a turning point with vaccines... → https://is.gd/BJvP0L | 15:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: We really, really did not need the complications that have come up with blood clotting and the AZ/Oxford vaccine. But this sort of thing is waiting potentially in every drug rollout:https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/04/12/az-oxford-calculations → https://is.gd/Y0Rglv | 15:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: Czech government fires anti-Sputnik vaccine foreign minister → https://is.gd/fJCjcU | 15:51 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Avviso pubblico elenco laureati in medicina e chirurgia per piano di somministrazione dei vaccini anti sars-cov-2 ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/avviso-pubblico-elenco-laureati-medicina-e-chirurgia-piano-di-somministrazione-dei-vaccini ) | 16:00 | |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @John_LaMattina: RT by @Dereklowe: Actually, if you look at the table closely, you will see that the money that BARDA committed to Pfizer was for purchasing the vaccine IF and when its vaccine was approved. The table shows no BARDA support of Pfizer's COVID-19 R&D. → https://is.gd/BwPrJK | 16:01 |
| -Synapsestorm- 🌑 地震! Землетрясение! Earthquake! 6.0 M tremor, registered by yurekuru, occurred 3 minutes ago (14:01:39 UTC), with a new moon, Northwest Of Ryukyu Islands (29.5, 128.6), ↓10 km likely felt 260 km away (in 奄美市…) by 42200 people → https://twitter.com/yurekuru/status/1381608595087761408 https://twitter.com/yurekuru/status/1381608565983436809 (Twitter) | 16:05 | |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Antibody cocktail may curb infection in unvaccinated who are exposed to COVID-19: People living with someone who has COVID-19 appear to get powerful protection against infection when they are given Regeneron's antibody cocktail, a new study shows. → https://is.gd/QUyV8y | 16:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: [CROSSPOST] AskScience AMA Series: Hi! I am Prof. Nadav Davidovitch, an epidemiologist and one of the architects of Israel's coronavirus response and vaccine operation. Ask me anything! → https://is.gd/5SILlo | 16:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: The ebb and flow of COVID-19 vaccine support: What social media tells us about Australians and the jab: Australia's COVID-19 vaccination rollout has hit yet another crossroads. Public confidence has wavered following the federal government's announcement last week that the Pfizer vaccine was the preferred choice for people [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8bAHPh | 16:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: COVID vaccines might not protect certain cancer patients: People with cancers of the blood, bone marrow or lymph nodes are at an increased risk of not making protective coronavirus antibodies after COVID-19 vaccination, a new study warns. → https://is.gd/jOIrKL | 16:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: COVID vaccines: Passports, blood clots and changing trust in government: Four in 10 people think those without a COVID-19 vaccination will be discriminated against, while around a quarter of the public have concerns about vaccine passports, according to a new study. The research, by the University of Bristol and King's College [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/l6WZZK | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Danes vaccinate 100,000 people in a day to test system: Denmark's Health Minister declared Monday "the big vaccine day," with 100,000 people to be vaccinated in one day as officials test the system ahead of a June rollout where four times as many people as that will be vaccinated each day. → https://is.gd/WgqmBQ | 17:18 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Campagna vaccinale, avviso pubblico per la creazione di un elenco di laureati in medicina e chirurgia ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/campagna-vaccinale-avviso-pubblico-la-creazione-di-un-elenco-di-laureati-medicina-e ) | 17:50 | |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: AstraZeneca suffers diabetes drug setback for COVID: British pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca on Monday said that following a trial, its diabetes drug Farxiga was not successful in treating COVID patients at risk of severe complications. → https://is.gd/6lhTqZ | 17:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: Questions about the efficacy of some of the Chinese vaccine candidates, and more - a quick news roundup:https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/04/12/vaccine-efficacy-questions → https://is.gd/ygLd2c | 18:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: Muslims navigate restrictions in the second pandemic Ramadan → https://is.gd/kk5QT1 | 18:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: Asthma drug 'speeds up recovery at home': GPs can now prescribe it to treat Covid patients on a case-by-case basis, the NHS has announced. → https://is.gd/YHPxFZ | 18:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Reporting of AstraZeneca studies may have caused vaccine reservations: Abbasi asks whether the negativity towards the AstraZeneca vaccine in the European Union is a political hangover from Brexit.1 I think the initial reservations were related to the way the results... → https://is.gd/mHPvsY | 18:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from Nussenzweig Lab: @NussenzweigL: TBEV: we find highly related B cell clones in infected & vaccinated donors but most potent neutralizing antibodies are exclusively in infected donors https://rupress.org/jem/article/218/5/e20210236/211958/Broad-and-potent-neutralizing-human-antibodies-to#.YHIcB5enJnw.twitter PC: #JanErhart → https://is.gd/PmpOc7 | 19:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Large US study suggests survival benefit for severely ill COVID-19 patients treated with ECMO: For critically ill COVID-19 patients treated with extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO), the risk of death remains high—but is much lower than suggested by initial studies, according to a report published today by Annals of Surgery. → https://is.gd/6jHv3w | 19:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: WHO says Covid pandemic is growing 'exponentially' at more than 4.4 million new cases a week → https://is.gd/0Ztlq9 | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: WHO warns pandemic at 'critical point' as South Asia cases surge: The COVID-19 pandemic has entered a critical phase as infections exponentially increase despite widespread measures aimed at stopping them, the WHO warned Monday, with record case numbers in South Asia triggering tough new restrictions. → https://is.gd/U6hKAE | 20:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cameroon: +4394 cases (now 61731), +68 deaths (now 919) since 10 days ago — Rajasthan, India: +3526 cases (now 350317) since 3 days ago — France: +99547 cases (now 5.0 million), +767 deaths (now 98131) since 4 days ago — Mongolia: +1268 cases (now 13494), +2 deaths (now 19) since 5 days ago | 20:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science Daily: A multidimensional view of the coronavirus: What exactly happens when the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 infects a cell? New research paints a comprehensive picture of the viral infection process. → https://is.gd/NduDFa | 21:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada now averaging more COVID-19 cases per million than U.S. — here's what the experts say | CBC News → https://is.gd/xg9ETx | 21:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: CoVizu: Rapid analysis and visualization of the global diversity of SARS-CoV-2 genomes: Introduction The phylogenetic analysis and visualization of SARS-CoV-2 genomic variation has played an important role in variant tracking, informing public health decisions, and scientific communication. However, the enormous [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CKke95 | 22:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: 'The Advantage Of Our Smallness': Bhutan Vaccinates 93% Of Adults In Under 2 Weeks: Just 13 days after the kingdom launched a nationwide vaccination campaign on March 27, health officials said 93% of eligible adults had received one dose of AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine. → https://is.gd/bEUCMe | 22:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Blood clot risk high following COVID-19 hospitalization: (HealthDay)—Following COVID-19 hospitalization, thromboembolic events occur frequently, according to a study published online April 6 in Blood. → https://is.gd/b63wVb | 22:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Skin reactions usually mild after COVID-19 vaccination: (HealthDay)—Skin reactions can occur following COVID-19 vaccination, but reactions are mild, according to a study published online April 7 in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology. → https://is.gd/pwx1Zz | 22:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: Ireland to stop giving AstraZeneca vaccine to most under 60 → https://is.gd/33u4KI | 23:02 |
| ubLIX | %links sputnik | 23:10 |
| Brainstorm | ubLIX, https://sputnikvaccine.com/newsroom/pressreleases/second-interim-analysis-of-clinical-trial-data-showed-a-91-4-efficacy-for-the-sputnik-v-vaccine-on-d/ (Second interim analysis of clinical trial data showed a 91.4% efficacy for the Sputnik V vaccine on day 28 after the first dose; vaccine efficacy is over 95% 42 days after the first dose), as announced by Gamaleya in a [... want %more?] | 23:10 |
| LjL | hi ubLIX | 23:10 |
| ubLIX | nothing more recent :( | 23:10 |
| LjL | not that i know of... | 23:10 |
| LjL | ubLIX, maybe https://outbreak.info/resources/NCT04741061 | 23:12 |
| LjL | and/or other things that show up on https://outbreak.info/resources/search?q=sputnik although most of those seem like commentary to me | 23:13 |
| LjL | not really sure what Sputnik "Light" is compared to the regular one | 23:13 |
| ubLIX | kinda want to get a sense of the quality of sputnik trial data/publications, but not sure how deep into the rabbit hole i wish to go | 23:18 |
| LjL | ubLIX, i don't feel very motivated given it's not very close here on the horizon | 23:20 |
| LjL | my dad just got AZ, my mom will shortly | 23:20 |
| LjL | and i... who knows | 23:20 |
| LjL | technically right now i could only get Pfizer or Moderna, but of course thinking i'd get a vaccine "right now" is laughable | 23:20 |
| ubLIX | yeah. just idle curiosity really. | 23:20 |
| ubLIX | my mind has been elsewhere recently (lucky me). vaccine roll out on the continent not going very well? | 23:21 |
| LjL | ubLIX, well, it sure would help if AZ UK would export it to us like it says in the contract ;( | 23:23 |
| ubLIX | i've been ignoring the news about that, not wanting to invest the effort of penetrating whether it's just EU vs UK fisticuffs | 23:30 |
| ubLIX | but you seem sure that the UK has been a bad actor? | 23:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: UN chief urges wealth tax of those who profited during COVID → https://is.gd/chazlg | 23:32 |
| LjL | ubLIX, more like the UK is more competent at writing contracts than the EU, and AZ realizes that | 23:37 |
| LjL | i am not happy with the EU right now, i can tell you that | 23:37 |
| Arsanerit | My parents are getting BioNTech, my sister will probably get Janssen. | 23:47 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: Are you the same LjL as https://linguistics.stackexchange.com/users/13636/ljl ? | 23:49 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, don't dox me bro | 23:49 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: I'm sorry, no ill harm intended. | 23:50 |
| Arsanerit | I was just curious. | 23:50 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, yeah, it's me | 23:51 |
| Arsanerit | What's up with those Sputnik V batches that apparently aren't corresponding to what the Lancet article was about? | 23:52 |
| LjL | oh yeah | 23:53 |
| LjL | i don't know, i read about that too but didn't follow up | 23:53 |
| de-facto | btw do we know for sure now the s-protein sequence of sputnik? | 23:53 |
| de-facto | or is it believed to be wuhan sequence without K986P, V987P | 23:54 |
| de-facto | does it contain other prefusion stabilizations? | 23:54 |
| LjL | don't think we have the full sequence, but there was that neat table listing which vaccines had the stabilizing tweaks and which didn't... | 23:54 |
| de-facto | yeah and in that table it said wuhan sequence iirc | 23:55 |
| de-facto | but i did not find the source back then | 23:55 |
| Arsanerit | I'm not too happy with the EU either but the biggest failures are in national and regional governments, not in the EU. | 23:55 |
| de-facto | all that matters would be that everything would be done to ramp up production cap | 23:56 |
| de-facto | i am still not convinced everything possible is done yet | 23:56 |
| de-facto | also do they work on updates? | 23:57 |
| de-facto | not convinced everything possible is done there too | 23:57 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, maybe at handling things in various ways, but vaccine-wise, it was all in the EU's hands | 23:57 |
| Arsanerit | Vaccine-wise, mostly yes, although national states could still have bought additional vaccine on top of what was ordered via EU, and EU should have stepped in improving production earlier. | 23:58 |
| Arsanerit | I'm not sure it makes sense to still do so now, if it takes 6 months to ramp up. Will we still have a shortage in October 2021? | 23:58 |
| de-facto | the vaccines were developed with public money and the patents now used to protect private profit | 23:59 |
| ubLIX | didn't the EU get angry when Hungary did exactly that? | 23:59 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, member states were bound not to buy their own vaccines unless they were different types from the ones the EU ordered | 23:59 |
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