| LjL | which i guess makes sense if you want the response to last as long as possible? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +9280 cases (now 3.5 million), +122 deaths (now 84735) since 22 hours ago | 00:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: COVID-19 vaccines may protect many, but not all, people with suppressed immune systems → https://is.gd/TyLhMc | 00:44 |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: Decreased Mortality Rate Among COVID-19 Patients Prescribed Statins: Data From Electronic Health Records in the US (85 votes) | https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2021.639804/full | https://redd.it/n7utc2 | 00:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Free beer offer results in more vaccinations than all Erie County first-dose clinics last week → https://is.gd/6Wmqdt | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +5577 cases (now 1.3 million) since 22 hours ago | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ukraine: +6520 cases (now 2.1 million), +284 deaths (now 46961) since 21 hours ago — France: +15160 cases (now 5.8 million) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +5587 cases (now 1.6 million), +20 deaths (now 17433) since 21 hours ago — Germany: +6924 cases (now 3.5 million) since 21 hours ago | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Egypt: +1132 cases (now 236272), +66 deaths (now 13845) since 23 hours ago | 03:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Trinidad and Tobago: +402 cases (now 13122), +7 deaths (now 203) since a day ago | 03:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: COVID-19 vaccine specially developed for animals is on its way to ZooTampa: The vaccine for animals is completely different from the one for humans → https://is.gd/hqWr9k | 03:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Panama: +508 cases (now 367270), +7 deaths (now 6265) since a day ago — Canada: +6388 cases (now 1.3 million) since 23 hours ago | 04:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Macron calls on US, UK to stop ‘blocking’ vaccines → https://is.gd/3nVWEZ | 04:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Venezuela: +1368 cases (now 206549), +17 deaths (now 2280) since a day ago | 04:41 |
| ryouma | risk of having dinner with 2 people at friends hosue all supposedly vaccinated but no mask... with vulnerable | 04:53 |
| ryouma | it is like a spree of dropping all safety behavior, by a person who ha no sense of hygeine, once ate food off the floor, does not wash hands, never cleans anything, and thought despite being told nmerous tiems to the contrary that a valved mask need not be taped because it filters a little bit. | 04:55 |
| LjL | interactions between people fully vaccinated with mRNA is minimal risk | 05:02 |
| LjL | "dropping all safety behavior" is what just about anyone would do | 05:02 |
| ryouma | no masks? | 05:03 |
| ryouma | this is az we are talking about where neantherthals still exist. i ssuspect the rate is higher htan being reported. | 05:04 |
| LjL | a 95%-effective vaccine is WAY more effective than a stupid leaky mask | 05:05 |
| ryouma | we have been self isolating the whole time | 05:06 |
| ryouma | except dentist. in her case cosmetic dentist stuff. | 05:06 |
| CoronaBot | /r/coronavirus: Free beer offer results in more vaccinations than all Erie County first-dose clinics last week (10187 votes) | https://buffalonews.com/news/local/free-beer-offer-results-in-more-vaccinations-than-all-erie-county-first-dose-clinics-last/article_34b5d0d2-b011-11eb-92fd-8b7017585dc1.html | https://redd.it/n7zztl | 05:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +3364 cases (now 1.0 million), +28 deaths (now 24511) since a day ago | 06:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 753: The ferret nose where the virus goes: TWiV revisits Brazil’s rejection of Sputnik vaccine, examines influenza transmission via the air from the nasal epithelium of ferrets, and a history of accidental releases of polioviruses and their relevance for eradication of poliomyelitis. → https://is.gd/EG0DeP | 06:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: How will your relationship be affected this Sunday because of lockdown? → https://is.gd/FeakOE | 06:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: South Africa picks up first cases of coronavirus variant from India → https://is.gd/P7JH0F | 06:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Lima, Peru: +5742 cases (now 844190), +220 deaths (now 27839) since a day ago — New York, United States: +3064 cases (now 2.1 million), +42 deaths (now 52653) since a day ago — Japan: +5767 cases (now 631045), +81 deaths (now 10749) since 20 hours ago — Valle del Cauca, Colombia: +1340 cases (now 244084), +43 deaths (now 7613) since a day ago | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Mother’s Day 2021: Health tips for first-time mothers in the second Covid wave → https://is.gd/G708YG | 08:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +269048 cases (now 22.2 million), +3497 deaths (now 241005) since 14 hours ago | 08:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Mother’s Day 2021: In pandemic, here’s what moms can do to fight stress and fatigue → https://is.gd/60ojd0 | 09:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Tamil Nadu, India: +27397 cases (now 1.4 million), +241 deaths (now 15412) since a day ago — West Bengal, India: +19436 cases (now 973718), +127 deaths (now 12203) since a day ago — Punjab, India: +9042 cases (now 433689), +171 deaths (now 10315) since a day ago — Assam, India: +5756 cases (now 289069), +50 deaths (now 1628) since a day ago | 10:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Covid strain that contains 18 mutations is more deadly and infectious, researchers warn → https://is.gd/LQnXX4 | 10:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 14 Care Home Residents who were all vaccinated caught the Indian Variant of Coronavirus and had to be hospitalized, casting new doubt on vaccines being affecting against the new variants. → https://is.gd/hXFHbD | 10:45 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +65 deaths (now 84776) since 18 hours ago | 11:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Spain ends COVID state of emergency: Spain has lifted a state of emergency in place since October to fight the pandemic, allowing Spaniards to travel between regions for the first time in months. → https://is.gd/YHHHfv | 11:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Laos: +1 deaths (now 1) since a day ago | 12:02 |
| erasmus | I don't think it's safe to get the 2nd shot | 12:27 |
| erasmus | I think I'd rather take my chances with my own bodies immune system. | 12:27 |
| erasmus | does anyone here think that is irrational? | 12:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Singapore: +28 cases (now 61359) since a day ago | 12:33 |
| finely[m] | <erasmus "I think I'd rather take my chanc"> Which vaccine? | 12:41 |
| alyssa0 | finely[m]: what's a chanc | 12:44 |
| alyssa0 | your reply is weird | 12:44 |
| alyssa0 | oh wait that's that stupid matrix thing | 12:45 |
| alyssa0 | my bad | 12:45 |
| de-facto | erasmus, what is the basis of your assumption that a 2nd shot would not be safe? | 12:49 |
| de-facto | given the amount of people that got a 2nd shot without problems, what is different in your assumed case? | 12:52 |
| de-facto | i mean there are effects that differentiate second shots from first shots, depending on vaccine platform, for example when using the same Adenovirus vector to inject the s-protein recipe there also will be some degree of immunity against that vector itself, making the 2nd shot arguably less effective than the first (with same Adenovirus that is new for first shot) | 12:54 |
| de-facto | for that reason Sputnik uses two different Adenovirus vectors or Jannsen tries to do it with one shot only | 12:55 |
| oxek | of the vaccines that use the adenovirus, and are multiple doses, do they not use a different strain of the Ad for the 2nd dose? | 12:55 |
| de-facto | yes Sputnik V uses Ad.26 for primer and Ad,5 for booster | 12:56 |
| erasmus | cause the spike proteins they use are in of themselves destructive to the body organs. | 12:56 |
| erasmus | I don't want to get covid either but I think considering the data we are given cannot be trusted since it's so political I think I will walk out. | 12:57 |
| oxek | human organs are not balloons... | 12:57 |
| de-facto | yes but in vaccinations only minuscule amounts of them get produced by cells that got the instruction for building them by the vaccine | 12:57 |
| erasmus | also the fact that Pfizer made 3.5billion in 3 months and they won't release the patents to help the world. | 12:58 |
| erasmus | I don't feel safe about the long term safety issues associated with taking a vaccine we don't know much about. | 12:58 |
| erasmus | plus I am Type O negative. | 12:59 |
| de-facto | if you can prevent the damage of the s-protein induced by an infection with SARS-CoV-2 by a vaccination it makes a lot of sense to go for best protection that is available | 12:59 |
| erasmus | but they have been proven to not work well against the variants. | 13:00 |
| erasmus | infact we might be doing more damage now just like the war with antibiotics. | 13:00 |
| de-facto | yes they have decreased effectiveness against variants, but still protect very well against severe progressions | 13:01 |
| de-facto | i am always tempted to look at how it goes in Israel because they are ahead with vaccinations in comparison to most other countries | 13:01 |
| erasmus | probably cause they created it | 13:02 |
| de-facto | huh? they bought enough vaccines in time (and payed almost double the price per dose) | 13:02 |
| erasmus | with American money | 13:02 |
| erasmus | who do you think funds them? | 13:02 |
| de-facto | irrelevant for my point | 13:03 |
| erasmus | not sure how profitable salt and dates are these days | 13:03 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ <-- look at how both cases and deaths go down | 13:03 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.worldometers.info: Israel COVID: 838,887 Cases and 6,376 Deaths - Worldometer | 13:03 |
| erasmus | easier to make money interfering in other governments and stealing land | 13:03 |
| de-facto | they are at ~50 infections and ~2 deaths per day (for 9M citizens), thats a fantastic result compared to their previous numbers | 13:04 |
| erasmus | it's also warm a f there and sunny | 13:05 |
| erasmus | sars-c0v-2 was made in a lab and likes those conditions. | 13:05 |
| erasmus | or is this channel still saying it's natural? | 13:05 |
| de-facto | they had ~8k daily infections and ~65 deaths per day in their peaks | 13:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from ScienceNews: How India’s COVID-19 crisis became the worst in the world: Scientists say a laxed attitude toward masking and social distancing plus the rise of new variants may have fueled India’s coronavirus surge. → https://is.gd/YzWaFM | 13:05 |
| erasmus | and yet big pharma backed by Gates won't release the patents to help them. | 13:06 |
| erasmus | even though they have a lab perfectly suited to create more vax. | 13:06 |
| de-facto | India also got warm climate or Brazil | 13:06 |
| erasmus | yeah but they are dirty | 13:06 |
| erasmus | they don't clean well | 13:06 |
| erasmus | they shit outdoors | 13:07 |
| erasmus | don't use toilet paper | 13:07 |
| erasmus | you ever been there? | 13:07 |
| erasmus | it's a shithole | 13:07 |
| de-facto | the primary transmission path are aerosols, from human to human | 13:07 |
| de-facto | or droplets, again from human to human | 13:07 |
| erasmus | maybe they are also really close-talkers | 13:07 |
| erasmus | if you gather in mass like they do and travel on overloaded trains that will happen | 13:08 |
| de-facto | what i meant is that warm climate is not a guarantee for low infection numbers | 13:08 |
| erasmus | you don't see that in Israel | 13:08 |
| erasmus | sure it is | 13:08 |
| erasmus | we saw that clearly in Australia | 13:08 |
| erasmus | when they had their winter | 13:08 |
| oxek | anyway, anyone else really worried about the gatherings that will happen in a couple days as a result of end of ramadan? | 13:08 |
| erasmus | it cycles a lot based on weather conditions | 13:08 |
| oxek | I think it will start a new massive wave | 13:09 |
| oxek | especially in india | 13:09 |
| de-facto | its the behavior of people that influences the transmission scenarios, not so much the weather (apart from influencing peoples behavior that is) | 13:09 |
| de-facto | e.g. of course it helps when people spend their time outdoors (instead of indoors), its much easier to distance outdoors | 13:10 |
| de-facto | yet of course, as you said, traveling and large crowd gatherings without masks or distancing is also problematic outdoors | 13:10 |
| erasmus | this virus doesn't transmit well outdoors in the day | 13:12 |
| de-facto | but to come back to your initial statement, i think 1st shot is most important to start protection against severe progressions and 2nd shot rises immunity above a level that also might prevent infection completely for longer times (or rise immunity above a level where there is also better protection against the variants) | 13:12 |
| erasmus | yeah I'm pretty sure I will skip the 2nd shot | 13:12 |
| erasmus | I have 3 days to decide. | 13:12 |
| erasmus | I'm not anti-vax either | 13:13 |
| erasmus | I'm anti thimerisol | 13:13 |
| erasmus | but who isn't? | 13:13 |
| de-facto | and also if you are worried about the s-protein: for 2nd shot that directly will be neutralized by the antibodies from the 1st shot, so it provokes an increased immunity while being even more safe than 1st shot | 13:13 |
| erasmus | yeah I think it's safer to not take it | 13:13 |
| erasmus | I will continue to wear a mask and socially distance. | 13:14 |
| de-facto | if you skip the 2nd shot you wont know how long your immunity will last (because the vaccine schedule was evaluated and approved with 2-shot plan) | 13:14 |
| erasmus | they don't know that now | 13:14 |
| erasmus | and it's not immunity | 13:14 |
| erasmus | it means that the virus has a less chance of becoming the disease. | 13:15 |
| de-facto | you might be susceptible to more variants or earlier again when your immunity wanes off more quickly because you aborted your vaccinations | 13:15 |
| erasmus | you do understand that right? | 13:15 |
| erasmus | you know you can still get infected after getting the shots | 13:15 |
| erasmus | it doesn't make you immune from getting the infection | 13:15 |
| erasmus | tell me you understand that | 13:15 |
| erasmus | you don't understand that do you? | 13:16 |
| de-facto | yes its all a question of probabilities, reinfection with 1 shot only is a lot more probable than reinfeciton with 2nd shot | 13:16 |
| erasmus | these shots prevent the virus from becoming the disease. | 13:16 |
| erasmus | doesn't mean you cannot get infected and infect others. | 13:16 |
| erasmus | it's sorta crucial that you understand that. | 13:16 |
| de-facto | also it may mean that if restrictions will be taken back, and you did not get fully vaccinated, you might be treated as if never vaccinated in front of the law | 13:16 |
| erasmus | yes but you are not indicating that you understand that | 13:16 |
| erasmus | fuck the law | 13:17 |
| de-facto | there is a whole spectrum of immunity that may result from vaccination or recovery | 13:17 |
| erasmus | the way you are talking it sounds like you think you get fully vaccinated and then you cannot get infected or spread it to others. | 13:17 |
| de-facto | it ranges from sterilizing immunity (directly prevents infection when contamination happens, probably would require vaccines that produce IgA antibodies on mucus) | 13:18 |
| erasmus | eh? | 13:18 |
| erasmus | listen | 13:18 |
| erasmus | you don't get it I can tell. | 13:18 |
| erasmus | I'll explain it | 13:18 |
| erasmus | there is the infection which is the virus known as sars-cov-2. | 13:19 |
| erasmus | then there is the disease known as covid-19. | 13:19 |
| erasmus | you can take all the vaccines you want | 13:19 |
| erasmus | they don't prevent you from getting fully infected by the virus. | 13:19 |
| erasmus | they teach your system to prevent the virus from becoming the disease. | 13:19 |
| erasmus | think of it like HIV and full blown aids. | 13:20 |
| de-facto | then those intramuscular injected vaccines that we have now mostly induce IgG antobodies that prevent progression of a small initial infection, hence probably will prevent most of the symptomatic infecitons (as tested in the trials with efficacy) and also many asymptomatic infections (but already less than symptomatic) | 13:20 |
| erasmus | you can still fuck someone and get HIV | 13:20 |
| erasmus | but you take a drug that prevents the HIV from becoming AIDS. | 13:20 |
| erasmus | and you can still spread the HIV. | 13:20 |
| erasmus | got it? | 13:20 |
| erasmus | understand? | 13:20 |
| erasmus | he doesn't understand. | 13:21 |
| de-facto | they also induce cellular immunity (Th1 dominated CD4+ and CD8+ immunity), that is broader and may be less susceptible to evasion from mutants that only changed a small part of the spike-glycoprotein to prevent antibody binding | 13:21 |
| erasmus | this is not like vaccines in the past where you get a small bit of it and your body then creates the immune respeonse. | 13:21 |
| erasmus | this is instructions that are given through a needle that teach your system how to create and manufacture the resistance. | 13:22 |
| erasmus | you are using all fancy words and shit but you clearly have not grasped the most essiential shit. | 13:22 |
| de-facto | but yes you are correct, a small infection might happen with the current generation of vaccines and it might mean that people may be slightly infectious for their environment for a short time (but much less than without that level of immunity) | 13:22 |
| erasmus | you will get true herd immunity like they will in India by letting people get it | 13:23 |
| de-facto | no that is not true | 13:23 |
| erasmus | they will get there much faster than we will | 13:23 |
| erasmus | yes it is | 13:23 |
| erasmus | that is how herd immunity works. | 13:23 |
| de-facto | the level of immunity from recovery is barely 80% for below 64 years and 50% for above 64 years | 13:24 |
| de-facto | with the same variant of course | 13:24 |
| de-facto | so much less than vaccinaitnos | 13:24 |
| erasmus | where are you getting this ""data"" from | 13:24 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00575-4/fulltext | 13:25 |
| de-facto | there is the data | 13:25 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Assessment of protection against reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 among 4 million PCR-tested individuals in Denmark in 2020: a population-level observational study - The Lancet | 13:25 |
| de-facto | "During the first surge (ie, before June, 2020), 533 381 people were tested, of whom 11 727 (2·20%) were PCR positive, and 525 339 were eligible for follow-up in the second surge, of whom 11 068 (2·11%) had tested positive during the first surge. Among eligible PCR-positive individuals from the first surge of the epidemic, 72 (0·65% [95% CI 0·51–0·82]) tested positive again during the second surge compared with 16 819 (3 | 13:25 |
| de-facto | ·27% [3·22–3·32]) of 514 271 who tested negative during the first surge (adjusted RR 0·195 [95% CI 0·155–0·246])." | 13:25 |
| de-facto | "Protection against repeat infection was 80·5% (95% CI 75·4–84·5). The alternative cohort analysis gave similar estimates (adjusted RR 0·212 [0·179–0·251], estimated protection 78·8% [74·9–82·1]). In the alternative cohort analysis, among those aged 65 years and older, observed protection against repeat infection was 47·1% (95% CI 24·7–62·8). We found no difference in estimated protection against repeat infection by se | 13:25 |
| de-facto | x (male 78·4% [72·1–83·2] vs female 79·1% [73·9–83·3]) or evidence of waning protection over time (3–6 months of follow-up 79·3% [74·4–83·3] vs ≥7 months of follow-up 77·7% [70·9–82·9])." | 13:25 |
| de-facto | "Our findings could inform decisions on which groups should be vaccinated and advocate for vaccination of previously infected individuals because natural protection, especially among older people, cannot be relied on. | 13:26 |
| de-facto | " | 13:26 |
| de-facto | also your question about 2nd dose: look at this study here, how well it rises immunity (hence also against variants and to give some safety margin for longer term immunity) | 13:28 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.09.20245175v1.full-text | 13:28 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: BNT162b2 induces SARS-CoV-2-neutralising antibodies and T cells in humans | medRxiv | 13:28 |
| de-facto | Specifically their Fig 1 "BNT162b2-induced IgG concentrations and virus neutralisation titers." | 13:28 |
| erasmus | I think older people should get it | 13:30 |
| de-facto | real world data for BNT162b2 protection from 500k citizens in Israel | 13:30 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765 | 13:30 |
| erasmus | I think people with existing medical conditions should get it. | 13:30 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nejm.org: BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine in a Nationwide Mass Vaccination Setting | NEJM | 13:30 |
| erasmus | it doesn't make sense for me to get it. | 13:30 |
| de-facto | i think it does not make any sense not to get it | 13:32 |
| erasmus | there is very little data on people getting reinfected. | 13:32 |
| erasmus | you would think with all the people America keeps in it's prisons systems for profit we would have those numbers. | 13:33 |
| erasmus | https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038 | 13:34 |
| erasmus | .title https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038 | 13:34 |
| Brainstorm | erasmus: From nicholaswade.medium.com: Origin of Covid — Following the Clues | by Nicholas Wade | May, 2021 | Medium | 13:34 |
| de-facto | remember your risk is risk = (1 - vaccine_efficiency), so if it was 30 % = (100% - 70%) for fist shot it would be 6-fold less when it was only 5% = (100% - 95%) just as an example | 13:34 |
| erasmus | so you get it | 13:34 |
| de-facto | i dont get why you dont want your 2nd shot, imho it does not make any sense | 13:35 |
| erasmus | cause it's a drug that we don't know the long term consequences from taking. | 13:35 |
| de-facto | if you could get 6-fold better effect with a 2nd shot compared to only have 1st shot (at some point in time), why not go for it? | 13:35 |
| erasmus | it's not even FDA approved. | 13:36 |
| erasmus | I just fucking told you | 13:36 |
| de-facto | what is different for the 2nd shot that was not already there in 1st shot? | 13:36 |
| erasmus | you want to take something that the people who created this shit in the first place have been lying to you about? | 13:37 |
| de-facto | what are you talking about? | 13:37 |
| de-facto | you make less and less sense to me | 13:37 |
| erasmus | they have been lying about where this came from | 13:37 |
| erasmus | this was funded research | 13:37 |
| erasmus | gain of function research. | 13:37 |
| de-facto | well and how is that relevant for 2nd shots? | 13:38 |
| erasmus | then they make this crazy ass profit. They hold these patents that much of it was created with your money | 13:38 |
| erasmus | operation warp speed was your money | 13:38 |
| erasmus | and now they make crazy profits and don't share the vaccine with the world | 13:38 |
| de-facto | 20 bucks per shot, thats equivalent to two meals | 13:38 |
| erasmus | and you are saying to me....why not just go for it! | 13:39 |
| de-facto | how is all that relevant for 2nd shot? | 13:39 |
| erasmus | cause I now have zero faith or trust in them. | 13:39 |
| de-facto | its about your personal safety, your own benefit in form of protection against COVID | 13:39 |
| erasmus | when I got the first shot I did not know about their profits nor did I know about them refusing to share the vaccines. | 13:39 |
| erasmus | I have natural protection | 13:40 |
| erasmus | I have a healthy immune system. | 13:40 |
| erasmus | I am Type O Negative | 13:40 |
| erasmus | in shape and I eat well. | 13:40 |
| erasmus | this is just like putting all the kids on ritalin | 13:40 |
| de-facto | you are lucky enough to get offered a 2nd shot, so it would be insane to refuse that opportunity, the majority of people envy you for that opportunity | 13:40 |
| erasmus | yeah your sheeple chat has convinced me now to not get it. | 13:41 |
| erasmus | thanks for that. | 13:41 |
| erasmus | I was already leaning that way anyways. | 13:41 |
| de-facto | no it does not have anything to do with ritalin, their profits or any conspiracy, its just your own benefit that you can estimate by observing how it goes for all the other lucky bastards that already got fully vaccinated against this damn virus | 13:41 |
| erasmus | man-made virus | 13:42 |
| erasmus | you are allowing them to profit from what they did | 13:42 |
| erasmus | they fucked up all the kids on ritalin and lied to the parents about it's long term safety | 13:42 |
| de-facto | you did not give any point against 2nd shot in terms of biology or medical research | 13:42 |
| erasmus | I looked at their profits | 13:43 |
| erasmus | I saw how they refused to share it with the world and listened to them lie about why. | 13:43 |
| erasmus | so this is life threatening but not so much so that profits are more important. | 13:43 |
| erasmus | fuck em | 13:44 |
| de-facto | AstraZeneca does not make any profit for example | 13:44 |
| erasmus | Pfizer made 3.5 billion in 3 months. | 13:44 |
| erasmus | Gates lied about why they won't share the vaccines. | 13:44 |
| erasmus | Fauci lied about why they won't share the vaccines. | 13:45 |
| erasmus | they are fully immune from penalties from long term health issues from them | 13:45 |
| erasmus | so say 10 years down the road you get sick and die from getting one of these vaccines | 13:46 |
| erasmus | they can't be sued or have any responsibilty | 13:46 |
| erasmus | so does that answer your question? | 13:46 |
| erasmus | it's basically all about trust. | 13:46 |
| erasmus | I do not trust them | 13:47 |
| de-facto | that is very unlikely, the initial immune response settles at some point, the vaccine itself is gone after few days, why would there be an effect that only would show up after decades? | 13:47 |
| erasmus | I have no faith in my government to do the right thing either. | 13:47 |
| erasmus | de-facto they don't know. These are too new. | 13:47 |
| erasmus | they don't know what will happen in the long term. | 13:47 |
| erasmus | but they know they can't be held accountable for it. | 13:47 |
| erasmus | I'd rather gamble with mother nature. | 13:48 |
| de-facto | yes ultimately only in the long term we will be able to know what happened in long term, but we can observe from the past and extrapolate from that | 13:48 |
| erasmus | or hope that mother nature can shield me from this big pharma made virus. | 13:48 |
| erasmus | there is no past | 13:48 |
| de-facto | you know long covid is a thing? | 13:48 |
| erasmus | this is not like any vaccine in the past. | 13:48 |
| de-facto | and its quite common, even in children | 13:48 |
| erasmus | what? | 13:49 |
| de-facto | long covid | 13:49 |
| erasmus | this is not a normal coronavirus like the common cold | 13:49 |
| de-facto | effects from infection with SARS-CoV-2 that last for many months | 13:49 |
| erasmus | this is a heavily modified one | 13:49 |
| erasmus | I have no idea what you are saying | 13:49 |
| erasmus | what you are saying is making zero sense. | 13:49 |
| de-facto | infection with SARS-CoV-2 impacts health of many that officially appear as fully recoveries in the statistics for many months | 13:50 |
| erasmus | people who had bad covid | 13:51 |
| erasmus | having covid is not the same as having sars-cov-2 | 13:51 |
| erasmus | sars-cov-2 is the virus | 13:51 |
| erasmus | covid-19 is the disease. | 13:51 |
| de-facto | even mild cases can develop long covid | 13:51 |
| erasmus | people who had covid-19 and left the hospital often go back cause of the damage to their organs | 13:51 |
| de-facto | it may be something auto-immune related, its not fully understood yet | 13:51 |
| erasmus | no | 13:52 |
| erasmus | you don't know what you are talking about. | 13:52 |
| de-facto | asymptomatic accute infections can result into long covid on long term | 13:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Belgian politics: Spain rings in end of coronavirus curbs with boisterous street parties → https://is.gd/fBEaOk | 14:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Togo: +35 cases (now 13141) since a day ago | 14:00 |
| de-facto | i live less than 100km from where the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine was developed and i still dont have any chance to get a vaccination offer here, i will have to wait for months until i get such an offer | 14:05 |
| de-facto | i wish they would have managed to buy more of it, so they could also make an offer to me, but i understand that first the groups with higher risk must be given that opportunity | 14:06 |
| de-facto | so tbh i dont understand how people lucky enough to already got such an offer refuse a 2nd shot for a fantastically well working and well tolerated vaccine (even in their own individual case since they already tolerated the 1st shot), it does not make any sense at all | 14:09 |
| de-facto | maybe people don't realize how lucky we are to have a vaccine with such a high level of efficacy and how lucky they are to get the offer for a full immunization | 14:11 |
| de-facto | the data will be most certain for that standard scheme that was given to the majority, and problems later (such as maybe evasion by mutants) will be addressed more urgently if they affect the majority (hence exactly that 2 dose scheme that was approved) | 14:12 |
| de-facto | if people only get 1 shot and their immunity wanes off earlier they even might contribute to breeding of mutants if their selection of mutations evade their lower level of immunity and is able to jump over to the next host | 14:13 |
| de-facto | so refusing a 2nd shot might even contribute to the necessity for a 3rd shot for the majority | 14:16 |
| de-facto | and of course increase the individual risk for getting a full infection with SARS-CoV-2 and develop COVID | 14:18 |
| erasmus | yeah again | 14:28 |
| erasmus | you do not know what you are talking about. | 14:28 |
| alyssa0 | nobody does | 14:28 |
| de-facto | lol you dont even make any sense at all | 14:28 |
| erasmus | you just once again proved you don't understand that the vaccine to not prevent infection. | 14:28 |
| erasmus | s/to/do | 14:28 |
| erasmus | they prevent the virus from becoming covid-19 | 14:29 |
| de-facto | did you read what i wrote above? | 14:29 |
| erasmus | what you pasted? | 14:29 |
| alyssa0 | tbh I don't tend to listen to people who can't even write sed syntax properly | 14:29 |
| alyssa0 | put. in. a. fucking. trailing. slash. | 14:29 |
| erasmus | S/to/do | 14:29 |
| erasmus | S/to/do/ | 14:29 |
| erasmus | happy? | 14:29 |
| alyssa0 | no | 14:29 |
| erasmus | fucking nerd | 14:29 |
| alyssa0 | also de-facto is right | 14:29 |
| alyssa0 | you're wrong | 14:29 |
| erasmus | he's not right | 14:29 |
| de-facto | where am i wrong? | 14:29 |
| erasmus | look. If he wanted the vax shot so badly he could just drive to a state nearby where you can get it now | 14:30 |
| erasmus | you walk in | 14:30 |
| erasmus | no questions asked. You get a free shot. | 14:30 |
| de-facto | erasmus, answer my question please, where am i wrong with what i said? | 14:30 |
| erasmus | the excuse he cannot get it is fine if he lives in fucking Alaska | 14:30 |
| alyssa0 | erasmus, you're taking too much of a political approach, for one, focusing on vaccination programmes, rather than the science | 14:31 |
| de-facto | you dont have any clue | 14:31 |
| alyssa0 | "THEY LIED!!!!11!11" | 14:31 |
| alyssa0 | etc | 14:31 |
| erasmus | so refusing a 2nd shot might even contribute to the necessity for a 3rd shot for the majority | 14:31 |
| alyssa0 | at this point I'm just waiting for someone to invoke Godwin's law | 14:31 |
| erasmus | by saying that you prove you do not understand that even with all the shots you can still get and give the virus. | 14:31 |
| erasmus | alyssa0 you are such a tryhard loser. | 14:31 |
| alyssa0 | also people who lose arguments tend to call people "tryhard losers" | 14:32 |
| erasmus | ignored. | 14:32 |
| erasmus | that is the only way to deal with people like that. | 14:32 |
| alyssa0 | I rest my case? | 14:32 |
| erasmus | it's like trying to deal with "controlled opposition" | 14:32 |
| alyssa0 | oh no, not ignored | 14:33 |
| de-facto | yes viral replication always comes with a rate of randomly occurring mutations, and if they happen under a partial immunity (waning off faster from only 1 shot) those randomly occurring mutations that have a fitness advantage under such circumstances will get selected | 14:33 |
| alyssa0 | de-facto, what's your background? | 14:33 |
| erasmus | if you get the vaccine that does not mean you have immunity to the virus | 14:33 |
| erasmus | if you get the vaccine you can still get infected and spread the infection. | 14:34 |
| erasmus | the fact that you CLEARLY still do NOT understand that to me is very alarming. | 14:34 |
| de-facto | erasmus, you did not even understood what i said: refusing a 2nd shot enables faster waning off for immunity, hence increases the probability of viral replications happening under partial immunity, thereby selecting evasive mutations | 14:35 |
| erasmus | immunity from what? | 14:35 |
| de-facto | from 1st shot or recovery | 14:35 |
| erasmus | what? | 14:35 |
| erasmus | see | 14:36 |
| erasmus | you don't understand. | 14:36 |
| erasmus | if I were you I would stop giving advice about this. | 14:36 |
| de-facto | you only claim i did not understand while not giving even one point about there | 14:36 |
| de-facto | that means you did not even understood what i said | 14:37 |
| erasmus | I proved you don't know what you are talking about | 14:37 |
| de-facto | where? | 14:37 |
| erasmus | and have given several examples. | 14:37 |
| erasmus | you keep asking me for examples | 14:37 |
| erasmus | I keep giving them to you | 14:37 |
| erasmus | you then ask me for more. | 14:37 |
| erasmus | it's like a stupid fucking game with a child. | 14:37 |
| erasmus | these vaccines are very new. Not like ones you would get for measles. | 14:38 |
| de-facto | you did not give one example, you did not tell one single point where i said something that is wrong | 14:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +403738 cases (now 22.3 million), +3502 deaths (now 241010) since 20 hours ago — Nepal: +8777 cases (now 394667), +88 deaths (now 3720) since 22 hours ago — Bangladesh: +1386 cases (now 773513), +56 deaths (now 11934) since a day ago | 14:38 |
| erasmus | they do not prevent infection from the virus | 14:38 |
| erasmus | OK ASSHOLE | 14:38 |
| erasmus | LISTEN UP | 14:38 |
| erasmus | YOU STUPID FUCK | 14:38 |
| de-facto | lol | 14:38 |
| erasmus | YOU CAN STILL GET THE VIRUS KNOWN AS SARS-COV -2 | 14:38 |
| erasmus | EEVEN AFTER YOU GET THE VACCINES | 14:38 |
| de-facto | that is how you react when you realize that you dont have any arguments? | 14:38 |
| de-facto | so what do you think i am talking about when i say replication under selection pressure? | 14:39 |
| erasmus | YOU GET SOME IMMUNITY FROM THE VIRUS BECOMING THE DISEASE KNOWN AS COVID-19 | 14:39 |
| erasmus | IDIOT | 14:39 |
| erasmus | YOU | 14:39 |
| erasmus | YOU ARE AN IDIOT | 14:39 |
| de-facto | lol | 14:39 |
| erasmus | A FUCKING IDIOT | 14:39 |
| alyssa0 | 🙏 | 14:39 |
| de-facto | replication under selection pressure = infection after recovery or vaccination | 14:39 |
| erasmus | holy shit | 14:39 |
| de-facto | dont you even understand that? | 14:39 |
| erasmus | so stupid | 14:39 |
| erasmus | worthless trash | 14:39 |
| alyssa0 | de-facto: oh my god why are you still trying | 14:40 |
| de-facto | ok i think you either are too stupid to even understand the words i am typing there, or you dont want to, in either case i am done | 14:40 |
| de-facto | i stay 100% with everything i said, i can give you data for every single claim. | 14:40 |
| * pwr22 uploaded an image: (164KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/shortestpath.dev/bHpGcGMVdDTVhcVJfvuGHEPS/tenor_gif7809706515275187241.gif > | 15:05 | |
| pwr22 | That's me after seeing the chat history here | 15:06 |
| pwr22 | 😅 | 15:06 |
| oxek | ehh, we'll probably see increases in conditions like narcolepsy after the swine-flu vaccine, but all of those conditions can be handled just fine | 15:36 |
| oxek | the more people take the vaccine, the better data we'll get, and (statistically) it will take less time for those conditions to be spotted | 15:37 |
| de-facto | but not like decades later, given the number of vaccinations done and how strictly they are observed we should see most effects for the vaccines that were given to many millions of people already | 15:47 |
| de-facto | .title https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0033536 | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From journals.plos.org: AS03 Adjuvanted AH1N1 Vaccine Associated with an Abrupt Increase in the Incidence of Childhood Narcolepsy in Finland | 15:48 |
| de-facto | look at their "Figure 1. The temporal associations of pandemic vaccination, onset of narcolepsy" | 15:48 |
| de-facto | and btw neither Adenovirus nor mRNA need or have adjuvants | 15:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: U.S. wants COVID vaccine patent waiver to benefit world, not boost China biotech → https://is.gd/ZnvqHV | 16:01 |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: An immunocompetent 169-day prolonged SARS-CoV-2 shedding patient with high neutralizing antibody (80 votes) | https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-376381/v1 | https://redd.it/n8bea8 | 16:26 |
| oxek | de-facto: that's why I want as many people as possible to get the vaccine, so that we get more data | 16:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +66 deaths (now 84777) since 23 hours ago | 16:36 |
| de-facto | i think the personal benefit of immunity against SARS-CoV-2 infection progressing to COVID (weighted against potential side effects of the vaccine) should be the primary reason to get vaccinated against it, so its an individual decision, but that benefit is clearly there for the majority of people | 16:38 |
| de-facto | and thats exactly the metric for the approvals | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +4854 deaths (now 242362) since 22 hours ago | 17:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Kashmir doctors prohibited from speaking to media as COVID rages → https://is.gd/OTyelM | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: ‘Want to make sure as we recover, we recover stronger’: Meghan Markle urges equal vaccine distribution for women → https://is.gd/QK7jQg | 17:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Oman: +2006 cases (now 201350), +37 deaths (now 2120) since 3 days ago — Vietnam: +87 cases (now 3332) since 11 hours ago | 17:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Spain celebrates end of Covid lockdown with street parties → https://is.gd/0Roh7o | 17:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: India - Black Fungus Reported In People Recovered From Covid19 | 09MAY21 → https://is.gd/1IHj9k | 17:51 |
| de-facto | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/ ~5.5k daily infections ~80 daily deaths | 18:00 |
| de-facto | lets hope it wont increase | 18:01 |
| LjL | de-facto, well it's still on a downwards trend isn't it? | 18:03 |
| LjL | we have reopened despite twice the infections and three-four times the deaths | 18:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Documents Reveal Chinese Scientists Discussed Weaponising Coronavirus in 2015 → https://is.gd/1jcr0w | 18:14 |
| de-facto | yes it looks good for Spain, i just hope they manage to continue with a downwards trend when they increase contact rates | 18:16 |
| LjL | oh i see, they're reopening | 18:16 |
| de-facto | and their number of active cases is increasing | 18:17 |
| de-facto | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLXqePZNFek "Madrid celebrates the end of the curfew with maskless parties" | 18:22 |
| de-facto | that does not look good to me, i understand they are happy to end the lockdown, but the first thing they do is mass gathering without distancing or wearing masks | 18:23 |
| de-facto | are they all vaccinated? i dont think so | 18:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Fosun Pharma unit, BioNTech to form joint venture to make up to 1 billion dos → https://is.gd/VI2SVm | 18:24 |
| de-facto | ~28% of Spains population received at least one shot, hence probably not those young celebrating without distancing on the streets there | 18:25 |
| de-facto | given Spains daily new infections of 5500 for its population of ~47M it would be 5500/470 ~ 11.7 per 100k or at least a weekly incidence = (1 - 0.28) 7 5500 / 470 = 113.7 per 100k in those 72% of its population that did not receive their first shot | 18:31 |
| de-facto | the 28% for at least 1 shot vaccinations in Spain claim come from https://ourworldindata.org | 18:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: Leaked Chinese document reveals a sinister plan to ‘unleash’ coronaviruses → https://is.gd/ZrUMpB | 18:35 |
| de-facto | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMbhUoQe7wY "Parties throughout Spain for the end of the state of alarm" | 18:37 |
| de-facto | coming Wednesday 2021-05-13 the Ramadan will end with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Fitr for large parts of muslim populations in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country#/media/File:Islam_percent_population_in_each_nation_World_Map_Muslim_data_by_Pew_Research.svg | 19:01 |
| de-facto | i wonder, how will that influence contact rates? | 19:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ireland: +506 cases (now 252809) since 23 hours ago | 19:05 |
| kreyren | %cases bangladesh | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | kreyren: In Bangladesh, there have been 773513 confirmed cases (0.5% of the population) and 11934 deaths (1.5% of cases) as of 4 hours ago. 5.6 million tests were performed (13.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Bangladesh for time series data. | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Art and Culture: South Africa losing cultural landmarks like Apartheid Museum to COVID → https://is.gd/xoMFxs | 19:07 |
| de-facto | one can choose cases per million in http://metrics.covid19-analysis.org/ to see current incidence for comparison with those countries with large muslim populations | 19:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +8289 cases (now 4.1 million), +139 deaths (now 122833) since a day ago — Canada: +5512 cases (now 1.3 million) since 23 hours ago | 19:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Documents Reveal Chinese Scientists Discussed Weaponising Coronavirus 5 Years Before Pandemic → https://is.gd/9ImHnh | 19:50 |
| guriya | hi | 19:55 |
| guriya | who got covid here | 19:55 |
| LjL | guriya, actually not many that i know of, i've sometimes found it interesting that so few people ever showed up here saying they had it | 20:01 |
| LjL | but there's been a couple | 20:01 |
| guriya | LjL :O | 20:02 |
| guriya | so vaccine introduce weak covid into body? | 20:03 |
| LjL | maybe the last thing you want if you have covid is to be around people talking about how scary covid is | 20:03 |
| LjL | some of the couple of people i vaguely remember having it here were people who were already in the channel *before* getting covid | 20:03 |
| LjL | guriya, no, most vaccines don't use a covid virus (SARS-COV-2), weakened or not | 20:03 |
| LjL | they use different methods, mostly involving the S-protein (just a specific part of the virus) | 20:04 |
| LjL | but in India there are a couple of vaccines that do use "weak covid" | 20:04 |
| LjL | (inactivated or attenuated, i.e. weakened) | 20:04 |
| LjL | maybe one in china too | 20:04 |
| guriya | LjL is that why in India virus is spreading more? | 20:04 |
| LjL | no | 20:04 |
| LjL | the virus is spreading because not nearly enough people are vaccinated | 20:05 |
| LjL | also there were some big masses of people meeting, which was a terrible idea | 20:05 |
| guriya | but vaccine itelf got covid | 20:05 |
| LjL | no | 20:05 |
| LjL | vaccines aren't infectious | 20:05 |
| LjL | and they most certainly aren't the cause of the Indian surge | 20:05 |
| LjL | which, by the way, if you compare it to countries in Europe, is not even a *big* surge, going by the official numbers | 20:06 |
| LjL | i don't mean to play it down, the numbers are probably much bigger than the official ones, and it's a tragedy | 20:06 |
| guriya | LjL are you Indian? | 20:06 |
| LjL | but part of it is also just the healthcare system not being even close to equipped for coping with it | 20:06 |
| LjL | no | 20:06 |
| LjL | i am Italian, though, and we had some pretty bad situations here | 20:06 |
| guriya | LjL Indian numbers are very less than they show now | 20:07 |
| LjL | yes, yes, i know | 20:07 |
| LjL | but if anything, i was surprised that India didn't have such a big spike *sooner* | 20:07 |
| LjL | there are all the conditions in India for a big spike to happen | 20:07 |
| LjL | there is no need to think vaccines caused it, because there are a thousand other reasons | 20:08 |
| guriya | it already happened now,much more to come? | 20:08 |
| LjL | i don't know. the spike seeeeeems to be slowing down a bit | 20:08 |
| LjL | but it's not clear | 20:08 |
| LjL | unfortunately, deaths come about 15 days after spikes in numbers | 20:08 |
| LjL | so there *will* be many more deaths to come | 20:08 |
| LjL | http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India;Italy&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes | 20:08 |
| guriya | I have serious cough for a month and muscus/phlegm | 20:09 |
| guriya | Should I worry? | 20:09 |
| LjL | if you've had it for a month, then either it isn't covid, or if it's covid, you're out of the risk period | 20:09 |
| LjL | after a month it's very unlikely that it will get worse | 20:10 |
| LjL | can you get tested? (ideally without being with masses of other people) | 20:10 |
| guriya | LjL dry cough for amonth and since 2 days only muscus/phlegm my worry is that I went to meet covid positive person | 20:10 |
| guriya | 2 ays back | 20:10 |
| LjL | if you met them 2 days back and you started having mucus/phlegm 2 days ago, that isn't compatible with COVID, because COVID doesn't give symptoms *immediately* | 20:11 |
| LjL | on average, it takes about 5 days before the first symptoms | 20:11 |
| guriya | uscus started after 10-20mins after I met | 20:11 |
| LjL | that has nothing to do with it | 20:11 |
| LjL | the virus doesn't magically give you mucus after 20 minutes | 20:12 |
| LjL | if it gets worse in the *next* few days (next 2-10 days), then get tested | 20:12 |
| guriya | LjL you make me feel good | 20:12 |
| guriya | are you doctor? | 20:12 |
| LjL | no, i've just kept myself informed on COVID for more than a year | 20:12 |
| guriya | nice | 20:13 |
| LjL | i can give no medical advice, but i know that the virus definitely doesn't give symptoms after just 20 minutes | 20:13 |
| LjL | it takes some days | 20:13 |
| LjL | but if you've met someone positive, then in my country, the advice would be to get tested ASAP | 20:13 |
| LjL | but i don't know if that would be easy / wise in your country | 20:13 |
| LjL | testing centers may also be places where it's easy to *get* COVID... | 20:13 |
| guriya | how many days it would take person to die? | 20:14 |
| LjL | it varies a lot. i think they found it's something like one to two weeks after symptoms...? de-facto, do you remember this? | 20:14 |
| LjL | but most people who get COVID don't die | 20:15 |
| guriya | LjL because I have been coughing for more than a month | 20:15 |
| LjL | as i said, *if* you have had COVID for a month, then you are not at risk of dying anymore | 20:16 |
| LjL | it may take a while before you feel good again, though | 20:16 |
| LjL | sometimes COVID takes a long time to go away | 20:16 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronavirus/sars-cov-2-analysis-of-deaths | 20:16 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, the URL could not be loaded | 20:16 |
| de-facto | onset of symptoms -> death around 13 days | 20:16 |
| LjL | sigh this .title command has become... meh | 20:16 |
| LjL | thanks GDPR | 20:16 |
| guriya | what are crucial symptoms other than dry cough | 20:17 |
| guriya | so with covid if someone survive more than 13 days he/she is safe? | 20:17 |
| LjL | guriya, the only symptom i know of that is very specific to COVID is loss of smell/taste | 20:17 |
| LjL | no | 20:17 |
| LjL | 13 days is just the average | 20:17 |
| LjL | but after a month, if you were still at risk of dying, it would mean you are already in hospital, not just that you have a dry cough | 20:18 |
| LjL | if 1) you have COVID 2) after a month, all you have is still just cough | 20:18 |
| LjL | then you're almost certainly not going to die from it | 20:18 |
| de-facto | so their fig 5 says symptoms->death: 13 days; symptoms->hospitalization: 5 days ; hospitalization->death: 8 days (7 without ICU and 12 with ICU) | 20:18 |
| LjL | but there could be many other reasons you have a dry cough. like allergies in this period. | 20:18 |
| guriya | It helps a lot | 20:19 |
| guriya | Thank you | 20:19 |
| de-facto | their figure 4: Dyspnoea 73%, Fever 67% ; Cough 32%, Diarrhea 6% ; Hemoptysis 1% | 20:19 |
| guriya | if a person I know get covid symptoms can I do anything in these 5-8days to save? | 20:19 |
| LjL | dyspnoea means difficulty breathing. if you find it hard to breathe, then get urgent medical attention (if possible) | 20:20 |
| guriya | I don't know if I had difficulties in breathing as I breath with single nose | 20:20 |
| LjL | guriya, there has been no treatment found that is *clearly* helpful, unfortunately | 20:20 |
| guriya | for so many years | 20:20 |
| LjL | guriya, nah, that's just a stuffed nose | 20:20 |
| LjL | difficulty breathing... you'd knew if you had it | 20:20 |
| LjL | it means you feel like you are not getting enough air | 20:20 |
| de-facto | everything blood thinning (preventing thrombosis) is a good idea i guess | 20:20 |
| LjL | it feels *bad* | 20:21 |
| guriya | LjL like how? | 20:21 |
| LjL | guriya, like you're gasping for air | 20:21 |
| de-facto | good food, anti-inflammatory stuff, good sleep, anything that helps with a cold probably also does not hurt, yet unfortunately there is no cure for COVID yet, so everything is just supportive, ultimately the body has to fight if off | 20:22 |
| guriya | (y) | 20:23 |
| guriya | <3 | 20:23 |
| de-facto | also at the very early stages reducing the viral load in the throat may possibly be a good idea, e.g. gargling with green or black tea or alcoholic mouth washes etc | 20:24 |
| de-facto | that will not cure but possibly may reduce the viral load going down the throat into both, lung and gastrointestinal system | 20:24 |
| de-facto | i am not sure if that helps, but i guess it would not hurt either | 20:25 |
| de-facto | and of course most importantly: distancing to end infection chains | 20:25 |
| LjL | i'm looking at why Brainstorm doesn't parse the title of https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronavirus/sars-cov-2-analysis-of-deaths | 20:26 |
| LjL | i get SSLError: HTTPSConnectionPool(host='www.epicentro.iss.it', port=443): Max retries exceeded with url: /en/coronavirus/sars-cov-2-analysis-of-deaths (Caused by SSLError(SSLError(1, u'[SSL: DH_KEY_TOO_SMALL] dh key too small (_ssl.c:727)'),)) | 20:26 |
| guriya | i forgot I have been having gas issues | 20:26 |
| guriya | like bloating | 20:26 |
| LjL | that's a pretty strange-looking error | 20:26 |
| guriya | gas acidity | 20:26 |
| guriya | so would that be any related? | 20:26 |
| LjL | guriya, that's not a very COVID-specific symptom | 20:26 |
| LjL | a lot of symptoms could be related to COVID, but they are also very generic | 20:26 |
| LjL | there is no set of symptoms that will let you say "okay, i know, i have covid" | 20:27 |
| LjL | except maybe if you lose smell or taste, then that's very suggestive | 20:27 |
| LjL | but... this is why we have COVID tests, because there is no other sure way to know than a test | 20:27 |
| guriya | (y) | 20:27 |
| de-facto | LjL, openssl s_client -connect www.epicentro.iss.it:https tells their DH key is 1024b so maybe python does not like that for some reason? | 20:28 |
| LjL | de-facto, i found https://stackoverflow.com/a/38016392/8534460 | 20:28 |
| LjL | doesn't look like something i can work around easily, if it's the site's fault | 20:29 |
| LjL | i could do that custom cipher set thing but... might i not get errors with other sites then? | 20:30 |
| the-wes | += means you're adding to the list of acceptable sets | 20:35 |
| LjL | hm i guess, let's try | 20:37 |
| LjL | %title https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronavirus/sars-cov-2-analysis-of-deaths | 20:40 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.epicentro.iss.it: Characteristics of COVID-19 patients dying in Italy | 20:40 |
| de-facto | yay | 20:40 |
| LjL | now we only need titles for Twitter, Youtube, most PDFs... :) | 20:41 |
| de-facto | btw they got a "B" https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.epicentro.iss.it&hideResults=on due to https://weakdh.org/ | 20:41 |
| de-facto | PDFs will be hard to solve | 20:46 |
| LjL | de-facto, PDFs "are solved" in theory, Brainstorm has a PDF parsing library that it uses when giving things titles | 20:46 |
| LjL | but it's rather strict and if the PDF has errors, it will fail to parse it even when it will work in most actual PDF readers | 20:46 |
| LjL | also, iirc, i don't always download the *entire* page when i get a page to title it, because that could result in a denial of service attack by serving it a giant page | 20:47 |
| LjL | so the downloaded PDF may end up being incomplete | 20:47 |
| LjL | the title will likely still be there somewhere, but the library won't like it | 20:47 |
| de-facto | im not sure does that help? https://pypi.org/project/pdftitle/ | 20:47 |
| LjL | anyway when you're lucky it can even give titles to pictures by running OCR on it ;) | 20:47 |
| LjL | de-facto, well... that *might* be helpful if i finally upgraded Brainstorm to Python 3 ;P | 20:48 |
| LjL | it is incompatible with 2 | 20:48 |
| de-facto | oh i see | 20:48 |
| LjL | strange though that it has to "guess" the title by looking at font sizes | 20:48 |
| LjL | i thought PDFs had a legit title | 20:49 |
| LjL | %title www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/pdf_reference_1-7.pdf | 20:49 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.adobe.com: www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/pdf_reference_1-7.pdf | 20:49 |
| LjL | hm | 20:49 |
| LjL | oh that's not an actual pdf though | 20:49 |
| LjL | %title http://www.orimi.com/pdf-test.pdf | 20:49 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, the URL could not be loaded | 20:49 |
| LjL | nice | 20:49 |
| LjL | see for example this is the error i'm getting from the above https://paste.ee/p/8d1bj | 20:51 |
| LjL | definitely the PDF library failing on something | 20:51 |
| de-facto | btw their project is at https://github.com/metebalci/pdftitle | 20:52 |
| de-facto | hmm not sure LjL is it that issue here you are facing with Brainstorm? https://github.com/mstamy2/PyPDF2/issues/183 | 20:56 |
| LjL | i'm not sure, but my pypdf2 is up to date, at least as far as it can be in the python 2 version | 21:01 |
| de-facto | btw any chance to backport pdftitle from 3->2 with https://wiki.python.org/moin/3to2 ? | 21:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +97 deaths (now 106369) since 23 hours ago | 21:10 |
| guriya | Brainstorm is bot? | 21:11 |
| de-facto | yes LjL bot | 21:11 |
| * de-facto pets Brainstorm | 21:11 | |
| * Brainstorm starts to radiate de-facto with some defendable kindliness | 21:11 | |
| guriya | (y) | 21:11 |
| guriya | france deaths sad | 21:11 |
| de-facto | yeah but much better than in their past | 21:13 |
| guriya | when this can end or never? | 21:13 |
| guriya | I am sick pf seeing people die | 21:13 |
| LjL | de-facto, i'm using poetry https://python-poetry.org/ to install dependencies, i'm not going to fiddle with them manually and change them :P | 21:14 |
| guriya | I get this idea : if we were so cruel and killed first 100 covid patients would it have prevented covid surge | 21:16 |
| LjL | no | 21:20 |
| LjL | COVID was almost certainly already much more widespread than we realized | 21:21 |
| LjL | you killed those 100 patients, there were probably already 1000 infected people who didn't know yet | 21:21 |
| guriya | LjL you think we got covid backbefore dec 2019? | 21:22 |
| guriya | I think 20 and we detected covid later | 21:23 |
| guriya | s/20/so | 21:23 |
| LjL | yes | 21:25 |
| LjL | there are definitely identified cases of COVID that pre-dated December 2019 | 21:25 |
| guriya | in China? | 21:26 |
| LjL | including a high probability it was already out of China, since traces of its RNA were found in Italy, Spain, France and Brazil in samples taken before 2020 | 21:26 |
| de-facto | LjL, i think it might almost work with python 2.7, i replaced print(*s) -> print(s) on lines 33 and 38 and commented out https://github.com/metebalci/pdftitle/blob/master/pdftitle.py#L446 | 21:26 |
| de-facto | only installed python-pdfminer and called it with python2.7 | 21:27 |
| de-facto | i am not sure about the error on line 446 hence i just disabled that :P | 21:27 |
| LjL | i really don't know if i want to have spaghetti dependencies that are not managed by poetry :( | 21:28 |
| de-facto | yeah fair point | 21:28 |
| LjL | there's a lot of things that are blocked by the fact i'm not upgrading to python 3 | 21:28 |
| LjL | that's really the big deal | 21:28 |
| de-facto | its only that one file pdftitle.py though | 21:31 |
| de-facto | https://paste.gg/p/anonymous/cdd543b72441457a81178cf27e948a2f | 21:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +67 deaths (now 84802) since 21 hours ago | 21:35 |
| de-facto | LjL, i think that one might be solved by replacing the two occurrences of StringIO -> BytesIO | 21:40 |
| de-facto | LjL, i think this one here works with python2.7: https://paste.gg/p/anonymous/151206ce08b44041a374989d5149d60f | 21:43 |
| de-facto | (i am not sure though, actually i dont speak Python) | 21:43 |
| de-facto | it parses the pdf above without errors and gives the title though | 21:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Chinese Military Scientists Discussed Weaponizing SARS Coronaviruses In Document Obtained By U.S. Government: Australian Media → https://is.gd/BbkSAB | 21:45 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Puerto Rico: +5 deaths (now 2372) since a day ago — Switzerland: +2 deaths (now 10706) since a day ago | 22:00 |
| CoronaBot | /r/coronavirus: Connecticut becomes one of 1st states to hit 70% of adults vaccinated (10184 votes) | https://connecticut.news12.com/connecticut-becomes-one-of-1st-states-to-hit-70-of-adults-vaccinated | https://redd.it/n8dyxl | 22:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Maldives: +1091 cases (now 35815), +1 deaths (now 84) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +7002 cases (now 1.3 million) since 23 hours ago | 22:37 |
| notK | yes hello | 22:48 |
| notK | notK here, requesting operator status | 22:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 'New era of genetic weapons': Reports say China probed weaponising coronaviruses in 2015 → https://is.gd/oYGwLP | 22:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Brazil President Jair Bolsonaro rode at the head of a large motorbike rally by his supporters on Sunday amid harsh criticism over his management of the coronavirus pandemic → https://is.gd/NztX3z | 23:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Cyprus lifts lockdown with COVID 'safety pass': Cyprus on Monday will exit a third partial lockdown with a new coronavirus "safety pass" system to allow people to move freely. → https://is.gd/sOxH4Q | 23:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: British politics: Boris Johnson to press ahead with lifting England COVID curbs → https://is.gd/IqS81v | 23:44 |
| LjL | de-facto, eh, pdfminer itself only supports python 3 now, and it says to look at pdfminer.six (a fork) for python 2 support, but then https://github.com/pdfminer/pdfminer.six says to install python 3 ;( | 23:50 |
| LjL | maybe i should take the hint, eh... python 2 is officially unsupported by python since the start of 2020 | 23:51 |
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