| Brainstorm | Updates for Guatemala: +1416 cases (now 237682), +39 deaths (now 7815) since 21 hours ago | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Correspondence] Heterologous prime-boost COVID-19 vaccination: initial reactogenicity data: There is significant international interest in heterologous prime-boost COVID-19 vaccination to mitigate against supply shocks or shortages that might otherwise reduce the speed of vaccine roll-out. Additionally, in light of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/E14Jok | 00:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Diseases, Conditions, Syndromes: COVID-19 travel plan will let new variants into the UK, experts warn → https://is.gd/XntgQk | 00:43 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +2759 cases (now 1.6 million), +72 deaths (now 54968) since a day ago — Switzerland: +4 deaths (now 10725) since 8 hours ago | 01:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: Fever, chills, and aches more common when AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines are mixed, early data show: Mixing doses of the Oxford AstraZeneca and the Pfizer BioNTech covid-19 vaccine leads to more frequent mild to moderate reactions compared with standard dosing schedules, researchers have... → https://is.gd/4iINed | 01:05 |
| LjL | great | 01:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid vaccines: Mixing increases reports of mild side-effects: Researchers are still analysing whether injecting two different vaccines leads to better protection. → https://is.gd/smuPZx | 01:26 |
| pwr22 | Oh LjL I missed a call from the medical centre here last weekend. I suspect it's about having my second jab | 01:33 |
| pwr22 | But I phoned them today and I got the useless receptionist (I've had dealings with them before) and they don't know why they called me apparently | 01:34 |
| pwr22 | They even tried to tell me they last called me in March (which is BS) | 01:34 |
| pwr22 | This is typical NHS GP experience ☹️ | 01:34 |
| LjL | pwr22, the experience with GPs here is that they don't have any centers and just do everything on their own so when you're trying to explain your medical problem they have to answer a dozen phone calls about appointments :P | 01:35 |
| LjL | anyway, it's just my luck, on May 27 they're opening vaccine appointments for... the decade starting just one year before i was born! | 01:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cayman Is.: +12 cases (now 560) since 4 days ago — France: +14025 cases (now 5.8 million), +176 deaths (now 107111) since 23 hours ago | 01:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 found in penis tissue could contribute to erectile dysfunction, first study to demonstrate that COVID-19 can be present in the penis tissue long after men recover from the virus. The blood vessel dysfunction that results from the infection could then contribute to erectile dysfunction. → https://is.gd/N4nlbK | 02:08 |
| [Kraken | LjL: so did you vaccined ? | 02:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Trinidad and Tobago: +615 cases (now 14417), +11 deaths (now 235) since a day ago — Ghana: +114 cases (now 93125) since 2 days ago — Netherlands: +5947 cases (now 1.6 million), +32 deaths (now 17524) since 23 hours ago — Mayotte: +42 cases (now 20176), +1 deaths (now 171) since 7 days ago | 02:31 |
| LjL | [Kraken, no, i meant i'm out by one year | 02:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Egypt: +1187 cases (now 240927), +58 deaths (now 14091) since 23 hours ago | 03:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: COVID-flu combo vaccine from Novavax sparks immune response to both viruses in animals → https://is.gd/hd3vg5 | 03:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Paraguay: +2828 cases (now 304889), +74 deaths (now 7358) since 22 hours ago — Suriname: +121 cases (now 11427) since 20 hours ago | 03:33 |
| CoronaBot | /r/coronavirus: 5 vaccinated Ohioans will be chosen at random to win $1 million | Any Ohioan who has received at least one shot of the COVID-19 vaccine is eligible to win $1 million, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine announced Wednesday. (10478 votes) | https://www.wlwt.com/article/5-vaccinated-ohioans-will-be-chosen-at-random-to-win-1-million/36412658 | https://redd.it/nb0qrm | 03:55 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Panama: +562 cases (now 368930), +3 deaths (now 6285) since 23 hours ago | 04:10 |
| [Kraken | lol, lottery to get people to take vaccines | 04:30 |
| [Kraken | other day, I heard the same old CV Denier as to why police and military aren't getting vaccinated, "we can't wear masks forever, people are going to die of something, etc) | 04:31 |
| LjL | well something i'm starting to have in common with them is the feeling the way this is handled, it'll go on forever, and i really don't want it to | 04:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Maldives: +1572 cases (now 40092) since a day ago — South Korea: +715 cases (now 129633), +7 deaths (now 1891) since 23 hours ago — Central African Rep.: +192 cases (now 6866), +2 deaths (now 95) since 6 days ago — Gabon: +169 cases (now 23734) since 2 days ago | 04:35 |
| [Kraken | my sense is if someone is vaccinated, they don't see much need to mask, if they ever did | 04:40 |
| [Kraken | also, to be expected there will be a transition, but if done too early, then this probably may last forever, even if the masks (or to be PC face coverings don't), | 04:42 |
| [Kraken | many are willing to wear anything but surgical masks in my experience, despite how cheap and available surgical masks are | 04:42 |
| LjL | uhm | 04:46 |
| LjL | some countries in Europe mandate FFP2 (N95-equivalent) masks | 04:46 |
| LjL | surgical masks really aren't thought to be exceptionally effective | 04:46 |
| LjL | a good multilayer cloth mask with a tight fit (which surgical masks don't have) hasn't been shown to be LESS effective than a surgical mask | 04:46 |
| LjL | also, from a purely medical point of view, it makes little sense for the vaccinated to keep wearing masks. the push to make them keep wearing them is about societal and political view of people going around without masks | 04:47 |
| LjL | there are much more real problems that risk making this vaccination effort much less effective than it should be | 04:48 |
| LjL | mainly, it's allowing travel and tourism on a large scale, which will lead to vaccine-evading variants spreading, inevitably | 04:48 |
| [Kraken | well, I'm still operating under the assumption I can contract CV19 despite being vaccinated, and a mask providing some protection | 04:50 |
| [Kraken | to both myself and others, considering it is not known how long the antibodies protect, nor if there may be new variants that will escape the vaccine | 04:51 |
| LjL | of course there will be new variants | 04:51 |
| LjL | but on a population scale, whether they "take hold" or not won't be dictated by whether people wear masks | 04:52 |
| LjL | it's about political decisions high up that we have little say on unfortunately | 04:52 |
| LjL | rush for resurrecting tourism and economy and all that | 04:52 |
| [Kraken | i'm saying if a new variant is circulating, I'd prefer to keep practicing "standard or droplet precautions" | 04:52 |
| LjL | by all means do it | 04:53 |
| LjL | i just don't want you (or people in general) to think that it will likely solve the problem of variants etc | 04:54 |
| LjL | it mostly likely won't | 04:54 |
| [Kraken | actual airborne precautions people really have never been practicing here, I've seen about 0 N-95s, I see some K-95s occasionally | 04:54 |
| LjL | KN95 are pretty much equivalent to N95s in terms of specifications (actually a little better), but then the way they are in practice may not really match the specifications | 04:55 |
| LjL | and anyway i see people wasting away that type of masks here by wearing them with the nose out | 04:55 |
| [Kraken | currently in my building folks are not wearing masks, I'm getting off when they don't but, seems a losing battle | 04:55 |
| LjL | if someone wants to do that, they better just save some awful plastic and wear a cotton mask | 04:55 |
| [Kraken | in the elevator, people aren't | 04:55 |
| LjL | i haven't used the elevator since last march | 04:56 |
| [Kraken | security doesn't wear masks, and they say, they can only recommend tenants and visitors wear them, but not enforce it | 04:56 |
| LjL | it is a tiny enclosed space with little air circulation and it's probably much more likely to catch the virus there even though you *are* wearing a mask, if someone with COVID used it shortly before or maybe up to an hour before (guesstimating), then catching COVID by being outside maskless | 04:56 |
| [Kraken | I live on 20th floor, they is no other option, often it takes a long time to even get an elevator, etc | 04:57 |
| LjL | understood | 04:58 |
| LjL | in that case i'd wear a real good N95 type mask when on the elevator, one that really seals | 04:58 |
| [Kraken | I was going to wear my K-95s on the elevator, maybe I should try again | 04:58 |
| LjL | the 3M i have are good (if expensive) but it appears at least some of the 3M sold in the US are different so i cannot vouch for those | 04:58 |
| LjL | don't you mean KN95? K-95 isn't a thing | 04:59 |
| LjL | most KN95 are of very low quality though (the specs are fine, the actual masks often aren't) | 04:59 |
| [Kraken | I was also going to rig the surgicals with a paper clip to attach behind the head, for tight fits | 04:59 |
| LjL | surgicals won't have a good fit regardless | 04:59 |
| [Kraken | yes KN-95s I have a couple | 04:59 |
| LjL | a tight fit means *no air* reaches your mouth/nose unfiltered | 05:00 |
| LjL | it means you will see the mask trying to "fold inwards" when you breathe in, even if you don't breathe in very deeply | 05:00 |
| [Kraken | I could rig the KN-95s same method, but I've been vaccinated, | 05:00 |
| LjL | if the mask doesn't move or you feel air going out from the sides when you breathe out, you don't have a tight fit | 05:00 |
| LjL | what have you been vaccinated with | 05:01 |
| [Kraken | BNT | 05:01 |
| LjL | lucky you | 05:01 |
| LjL | unless you get unlucky and a variant just decides to target you, *for now*, BNT is going to be very effective | 05:01 |
| LjL | so wear masks if you feel safer or if it's required or if it seems like a decent thing to do, but don't sweat it | 05:02 |
| LjL | i'm afraid we'll have ample time to sweat it in a few months when vaccine-evading variants start to predominate | 05:02 |
| LjL | especially if we allow international tourism, which we seem set on doing | 05:02 |
| [Kraken | I've a pilot friend tells me international flights are full , I don't see how but thats what he says | 05:03 |
| [Kraken | from the US to Asia | 05:04 |
| LjL | i don't know if they're full but they're definitely taking place much more than they should | 05:04 |
| LjL | and we're also WAY to slow to stop flights from a given country if a "uh-oh"-looking variant arises in that country | 05:04 |
| LjL | namely, it took weeks/months before flights from India were stopped in various countries | 05:04 |
| LjL | and yet it was a very obvious thing to do immediately when the rather anomalous spike was seen | 05:05 |
| [Kraken | I thought there was some debate how effective that was | 05:05 |
| LjL | well it's definitely not going to be effective if you do it way late | 05:05 |
| LjL | or if you allow for subterfuges like you allow people who come *from* india as long as the *flight* wasn't from india | 05:05 |
| LjL | so they just need to stop at an intermediate airport, and that's it | 05:05 |
| [Kraken | I'd like to travel but I'd be concerned of some new restriction happening while travelling | 05:06 |
| LjL | don't travel | 05:06 |
| LjL | if you want to do others a favor, instead of worrying too much about masks, don't travel | 05:06 |
| [Kraken | more like relocate for 2 months | 05:06 |
| [Kraken | guess I think my surgical mask hygiene has got to be better than what I imagine most people are doing with their cloth face coverings | 05:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Oil drops as India coronavirus crisis tempers rally → https://is.gd/5A1GkZ | 05:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: B.C. to refuse driver’s licence renewals to people with unpaid COVID-19 fines → https://is.gd/vEc68g | 05:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +3251 cases (now 1.0 million), +21 deaths (now 24630) since 23 hours ago | 06:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 754: Tuesday two: SARS-CoV-2 and TLR2: TWiV discusses the finding that the envelope (E) protein of SARS-CoV-2 is sensed by toll-like receptor 2 on cells, leading to the production of inflammatory cytokines that cause damage to cells and tissues in COVID-19. → https://is.gd/dAqUH5 | 06:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US-approved vaccines effective against B1617 variant of COVID-19: Official → https://is.gd/wEnIIF | 06:25 |
| finely[m] | <Brainstorm "New from Virological.org: Latest"> This seems to be good evidence the virus didn't escape from a lab. | 07:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: When can a COVID patient discontinue home isolation? → https://is.gd/nxG4Pv | 07:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kerala, India: +43529 cases (now 2.0 million), +95 deaths (now 6053) since 20 hours ago — Tamil Nadu, India: +30355 cases (now 1.5 million), +293 deaths (now 16471) since 20 hours ago — West Bengal, India: +20377 cases (now 1.1 million), +135 deaths (now 12728) since 20 hours ago [... want %more?] | 07:29 |
| [Kraken | finely[m]: seems like no matter the evidence, esp in the new anti-chyna crusade, will un-convince the rabble | 07:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Seven days in medicine: 5-11 May 2021: Covid-19UK reclassifies variant from India as concernPublic Health England reclassified a variant of SARS-CoV-2 first detected in India (B.1.617.2) as a variant of concern, now known as VOC-21APR-02,... → https://is.gd/RyRjyO | 07:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says — NPR → https://is.gd/mRVLmh | 08:01 |
| finely[m] | S | 08:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for El Salvador: +535 cases (now 70915) since 20 hours ago | 08:06 |
| finely[m] | <[Kraken "finely: seems like no matter the"> Its not 100% proof either way, but its the best evidence we have so far. It doesn't help that the CCP is currently a horrifying nightmare that commits genocides. And that multiple countries research biological weapons despite vans. | 08:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: WHO urged to reform after panel finds failures worsened pandemic → https://is.gd/j399pS | 08:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | May 13, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/X1IkeR | 09:06 |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: Data discrepancies and substandard reporting of interim data of Sputnik V phase 3 trial (81 votes) | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00899-0/fulltext#%20 | https://redd.it/nb2j4q | 09:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +10054 cases (now 3.6 million), +175 deaths (now 85717) since 17 hours ago | 09:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Preliminary data suggests mixing COVID-19 vaccine increases reactogenicity: Researchers running the University of Oxford-led Com-COV study—launched earlier this year to investigate alternating doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine and the Pfizer vaccine—have today reported preliminary data revealing more frequent mild to [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/L1qs8v | 09:38 |
| finely[m] | * Its not 100% proof either way, but its the best evidence we have so far. It doesn't help that the CCP is currently a horrifying nightmare that commits genocides. And that multiple countries research biological weapons despite bans. | 09:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Lifestyle: COVID-19: Bored of WFH? IRCTC offers ‘work from hotel’ package in Kerala → https://is.gd/Q2uZDg | 09:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Mixing Astra and Pfizer shots triggers more fatigue, headaches → https://is.gd/NhMuuA | 10:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Thailand: +4887 cases (now 93794), +32 deaths (now 518) since a day ago — Taiwan: +25 cases (now 1256) since 18 hours ago — Puerto Rico: +17 deaths (now 2412) since 16 hours ago | 10:36 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Mario Draghi meets UN High Commissioner for Refugees ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16828 ) | 10:41 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Mario Draghi Call with President Erdoğan of the Republic of Turkey ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16830 ) | 10:41 | |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Vaccines seem to work well against coronavirus variants. It’s also complicated: Exactly how well the Covid-19 vaccines stack up against different variants — including the new one that’s emerged in India — gets complicated. STAT’s @DrewQJoseph breaks it down. → https://is.gd/rEQrEc | 10:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Most Americans believe Biden is correct to support an IP waiver for Covid-19 vaccines → https://is.gd/17zToY | 10:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Getting the vaccine? It doesn’t have to be dull → https://is.gd/83s4BT | 11:14 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Call with President Sanchez of the Government of Spain ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16831 ) | 11:16 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Call with Prime Minister Yoshilde Suga of Japan ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16832 ) | 11:16 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Call with Prime Minister Trudeau of Canada ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16833 ) | 11:26 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Italy to set the stage for UN Food Systems Summit with three-day event that will deliver bold new ambitions ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16834 ) | 11:26 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Call with President Macron ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16835 ) | 11:26 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Call with Prime Minister Mechichi of Tunisia ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16836 ) | 11:36 | |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Vaccinating children against SARS-CoV-2: Following widespread vaccination against SARS-CoV-2 of older adults and other highly vulnerable groups, some high income countries are now considering vaccinating children; just days ago, the US Food... → https://is.gd/q3YRa6 | 11:36 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Call with Prime Minister Abdelhamid Dabaiba of Libya ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16837 ) | 11:46 | |
| -Synapsestorm- ⭕ Temblor! Sismo! Earthquake! 6.1 Mw tremor, registered by 5 agencies, occurred 13 minutes ago (09:42:11 UTC), with a crescent moon, South Of Panama (6.65, -82.35) ± 17 km, ↓7 km likely felt 290 km away (in David, Santiago…) by 171900 people → https://twitter.com/swifteqinfo/status/1392780505595060225 https://twitter.com/swifteqinfo/status/1392780200157474818 (Twitter) | 11:56 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Call with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16838 ) | 11:56 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Call with President of the European Commission Von der Leyen ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16839 ) | 11:56 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Call with President Macron ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16840 ) | 11:56 | |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Effectiveness of England’s initial vaccine roll out: In its human host, the spread of SARS-CoV-2 has followed unusually volatile and seemingly unpredictable patterns that are often driven by statistical extremes, such as superspreading events.1 These... → https://is.gd/E8Ttvm | 11:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Is it Covid or the Flu? New combo tests can find out → https://is.gd/Pcd1KJ | 12:09 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Special European Council, videoconference Draghi - Michel ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16841 ) | 12:26 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: PM Call with Chancellor Merkel ( https://www.governo.it/it/node/16842 ) | 12:26 | |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: Global response was too slow and leadership absent, report finds: The covid-19 pandemic was a preventable disaster with weak links at every point in the chain of preparedness and response, according to a high level review panel.The report from the Independent Panel... → https://is.gd/RdjBuI | 12:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Singapore: +32 cases (now 61451) since a day ago | 12:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Data on country response measures to COVID-19: This downloadable data file contains information on non-pharmaceutical interventions (or response measures) that countries in the EU/EEA have reported to date. → https://is.gd/6BvFYG | 13:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Fiji: +4 cases (now 165), +1 deaths (now 4) since 20 hours ago | 13:05 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Draghi alla Riunione straordinaria della Corte Costituzionale ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/draghi-alla-riunione-straordinaria-della-corte-costituzionale/16844 ) | 13:16 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Draghi incontra il Presidente della Repubblica Argentina, Alberto Fernàndez ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/draghi-incontra-il-presidente-della-repubblica-argentina-alberto-fern-ndez/16845 ) | 13:16 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +4855 cases (now 458077), +27 deaths (now 1788) since 23 hours ago — Bangladesh: +1290 cases (now 778687), +31 deaths (now 12076) since 21 hours ago | 13:30 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Consiglio dei Ministri n. 17 ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/consiglio-dei-ministri-n-17/16808 ) | 14:01 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Comunicato stampa del Consiglio dei Ministri n. 17 ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/comunicato-stampa-del-consiglio-dei-ministri-n-17/16811 ) | 14:01 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Question time del Presidente Draghi alla Camera dei Deputati ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/question-time-del-presidente-draghi-alla-camera/16814 ) | 14:01 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Consiglio dei Ministri n. 18 ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/consiglio-dei-ministri-n-18/16817 ) | 14:01 | |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Fact check: Drinking tea cannot prevent COVID-19 → https://is.gd/AXr5vy | 14:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: Surge vaccinations could be used to tackle Indian variant: The government wants to consider "all options" to deal with the rise of the Covid variant, No 10 says. → https://is.gd/XLAt6Y | 14:41 |
| * Hyphy[m] uploaded an image: (387KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/EuXEmGuvFQeamVJwQIJFzGMw/Screenshot_20210513033258.jpg > | 15:30 | |
| Hyphy[m] | I tell you what this is starting to look like the one time magically in history where so few people actually had the integrity to read the VAERS reports coming in. | 15:31 |
| * Hyphy[m] uploaded an image: (77KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/VSWRnqrcwrjDRzAnekmcNnlv/FB_IMG_1620584154449.jpg > | 15:34 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +8842 cases (now 431191), +214 deaths (now 4466) since 23 hours ago | 15:34 |
| * Hyphy[m] uploaded an image: (113KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/XNSHYquZsAyUatLeFlsXGMtr/1620769949656.jpg > | 15:35 | |
| Hyphy[m] | 15,000 children died everyday for years - where were you then? Giving a shit? Brainstorm ? I doubt it. Guess what I was doing. - actually giving a shit. | 15:38 |
| Hyphy[m] | Yeah | 15:38 |
| Hyphy[m] | Thats why I don't blink an eye at you fake ass hype following phonies. | 15:38 |
| Hyphy[m] | 15,000 children will die of starvation today too. And tomorrow. You give a fuck about them? Huh? You fuckin better you fake ass | 15:38 |
| * Hyphy[m] uploaded an image: (136KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/JwIOQMEKAPuhiwZaCAowXjTR/1620769957845.jpg > | 15:40 | |
| Hyphy[m] | Now THERES the experts. Someone name me off some of the experts they follow. Let me hear some doctors names. Just so I know y'all actually know the scientific consensus. Fake asses | 15:40 |
| Hyphy[m] | Anyone read the VAERS reports yet and have some integrity to your cult-ass religion? That's what I see here, a fuckin cult lead by the crooked af mainstream media who will be hung for treason and that's your "expert". Industry-owned disinformation agencies. *Think about that* . | 15:43 |
| Hyphy[m] | https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html | 15:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American: Adolescents Can Finally Get Vaccinated against COVID: The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is now approved for use in adolescents aged 12-15. → https://is.gd/WPZZSa | 15:47 |
| Hyphy[m] | This group chat is more like a fauci groupie convention. You know Fauci hasn't been a Medical doctor in 40 years right? | 15:47 |
| Hyphy[m] | The first time I saw him on TV he smiled when they talked about kids dying. | 15:47 |
| Hyphy[m] | Pfizer is a convicted felon, guilty of felony charges and you want them to sleep with your daughters | 15:48 |
| * Hyphy[m] uploaded an image: (43KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/dZkifpSAqIvQyBmyKQXnhDif/received_2866591820323833.jpeg > | 15:49 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: [CROSSPOST] AskScience AMA Series: COVID Variants and Vaccines - We are a physician scientist and emergency physician, ask us anything! → https://is.gd/ApesZt | 16:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bolivia: +4402 cases (now 324868), +80 deaths (now 13345) since 14 hours ago — Saudi Arabia: +1116 cases (now 430505), +11 deaths (now 7122) since 14 hours ago | 16:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: EU Confidential #200, presented by Shell: Vaccine patent waivers — Macron gets mad — Facebook’s Nick Clegg: European leaders’ cool reaction to a U.S. proposal to waive patents for coronavirus vaccines is up for debate this week. We also discuss big issues facing Facebook with the company’s public affairs chief Nick Clegg, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/uKNEoP | 16:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from In The Pipeline: Tie Me Proteins All Down, Sport: There are a lot of slick ideas in molecular and chemical biology that depend on immobilizing proteins or small molecules onto solid supports. Consider affinity chromatography: if you can tether a “bait” onto some solid matrix, you can then flow all sorts of mixtures over it (gorp from [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/EB59mw | 17:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): Comparison of provision of maxillofacial emergency service during the two COVID-19 national lockdowns in the United Kingdom. → https://is.gd/woIN6Q | 17:25 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01115-6/fulltext | 17:28 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Heterologous prime-boost COVID-19 vaccination: initial reactogenicity data - The Lancet | 17:28 |
| de-facto | pwr22, ^^ | 17:28 |
| de-facto | first preliminary data for reactogenicity in heterogeneous vaccination schemes, e.g. AZ -> BNT et al | 17:29 |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: Second-Generation COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate, CV2CoV, Demonstrates High Immunogenicity Against Virus Variants in Preclinical Study (81 votes) | https://www.curevac.com/en/2021/05/13/second-generation-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-cv2cov-demonstrates-high-immunogenicity-against-virus-variants-in-preclinical-study/ | https://redd.it/nbgsqn | 17:29 |
| de-facto | oh wow interesting | 17:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: COVID More Lethal for People Living With HIV: New research shows that having HIV or AIDS increases a person's risk of catching and dying from COVID-19. → https://is.gd/pNrgBl | 17:47 |
| de-facto | .title https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/0/13094 | 17:50 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From mediacentre.britishairways.com: British Airways | BRITISH AIRWAYS TRIALS ‘WORLD FIRST’ 25 SECOND COVID-19 TEST | 17:50 |
| de-facto | "ultra-rapid Covid-19 antigen test" hmm what about specificity and sensitivity? | 17:51 |
| de-facto | "The test is a non-invasive saliva ultra-rapid digital antigen test that delivers 98% sensitivity and 100% specificity in symptomatic and asymptomatic individuals with SARS-CoV-2." | 17:52 |
| de-facto | hmm that sounds almost too good to be true | 17:52 |
| LjL | Ha | 17:53 |
| LjL | I was just reading it and thinking the same and about to paste it | 17:53 |
| LjL | Don't antigen tests usually have pretty meh specs | 17:53 |
| de-facto | the lateral flow ones yeah, not sure how this one functions | 17:54 |
| de-facto | also 98% sensitivity at what concentration? in the lab or in vivo saliva? | 17:54 |
| de-facto | is it this one here? https://www.pelicandetect.com/ | 17:56 |
| LjL | de-facto: it says they will test it for a while on crews and compare it against the standard test they already take | 17:56 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: thanks for the link, will take a look | 17:56 |
| pwr22 | I just deleted all the conspiracy persons messages from earlier on the matrix side since they seemed to go off on one | 17:57 |
| pwr22 | @hyphy | 17:58 |
| de-facto | https://www.pelicancovidtest.com/eu/covid-19-ultra-rapid-mobile-test | 17:58 |
| pwr22 | Doh, didn't mean to type that in here here 🤦♂️ | 17:58 |
| de-facto | pwr22, thanks for keeping our place clean :) | 18:00 |
| [Kraken | finely[m]: oh so your rabble oh well | 18:04 |
| [Kraken | sigh matrix users | 18:05 |
| de-facto | LjL, this seems to be a very interesting device | 18:07 |
| pwr22 | [Kraken: ? | 18:07 |
| LjL | ? Indeed | 18:07 |
| LjL | de-facto: have you found some details? | 18:07 |
| pwr22 | I just got called back by the medical centre and have my second jab booked for next weekend | 18:08 |
| de-facto | i am still searching, but its some kind of electronical device connecting via bluetooth | 18:08 |
| pwr22 | Probably gonna be AZ again but I'll find out on the day | 18:08 |
| pwr22 | ha ha | 18:08 |
| de-facto | "rapid digital immunoassay for the qualitative detection of specific proteins of SARS-CoV-2 present in the human saliva" | 18:09 |
| [Kraken | pwr22: which country | 18:09 |
| de-facto | .title https://docs.pelicandetect.com/EU%2B-%2BFact%2BSheet%2Bfor%2BHealthCare%2BProviders.pdf | 18:09 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From docs.pelicandetect.com: COVID-19 | 18:09 |
| pwr22 | [Kraken: UK | 18:10 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: if I'm reading those links right they don't say anything about the effectiveness of mixing vaccines types but just that it causes more side effects? I wonder if when we have larger numbers then it will turn out they cause more bloot clot events | 18:12 |
| LjL | pwr22: yeah it's going to be AZ, these studies aren't advanced enough to go ahead with mixing (except in counties that may have decided to just do it without a study first, I guess) | 18:12 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "Peter: yeah it's going to be AZ,"> I dunno if that's how we are just doing it here though | 18:14 |
| pwr22 | When I had a blood clot in my leg after surgery the NHS chose not to give me blood thinners as part of a trial | 18:15 |
| pwr22 | I even looked up the paper after the fact ha ha | 18:15 |
| [Kraken | pwr22: real question is if you look at controls, what percentage of population gets blood clots anyway, at scale | 18:17 |
| de-facto | pwr22, yeah thats why i wrote its about reactogenicity, i think for data about efficacy they need to accumulate quite some breakthrough cases for the stats | 18:17 |
| de-facto | LjL, found this, its "premium" content but the paywall is disabled with now allowing js https://www.360dx.com/covid-19/canary-health-technologies-continues-covid-19-test-development-ultra-rapid-saliva-test | 18:18 |
| [Kraken | seems like vaccines in general don't -> chronic 'side effects' ; if they did it would be logically more akin to auto-immune disease, eg Guillan-Barre | 18:18 |
| de-facto | *not allowing js | 18:18 |
| LjL | [Kraken: there are far more real questions than that, for instance the specific way most of these people have a low platelet count while getting some pretty devastating blood clots (usually CVST) is not typical of "normal" blood clots at all, but they're still rare enough that if you just count them as general blood clot events, you don't find a statistically significant difference with the general population. And yet the causal link is quite clearly | 18:19 |
| LjL | established now | 18:19 |
| [Kraken | TPA is used for CVA stroke, if done within X hours | 18:19 |
| [Kraken | LjL: your saying there is a large random controlled study showing mRNA linked to low platelet counts? | 18:21 |
| LjL | Uh not mRNA, AstraZeneca | 18:21 |
| [Kraken | anyhow low counts would cause bleeds, rather than clots .. | 18:22 |
| LjL | And that's exactly why it's rare, duh | 18:22 |
| LjL | It seems to me that you're asking me for high standards of evidence while not really having the basic information about these incidents | 18:22 |
| LjL | It presents somewhat similar to HIT | 18:23 |
| [Kraken | hmm I see, your saying folks with low platelets are getting clots after AZ | 18:23 |
| LjL | No | 18:23 |
| de-facto | [Kraken, and they do, hence the small bleedings into tissue for those that have low platelet counts | 18:23 |
| LjL | I'm saying that these adverse events are found with both low platelets and clots | 18:24 |
| LjL | I don't think it's known whether they already had low platelets before | 18:24 |
| LjL | Please look up the studies about it I have in the resources in the channel topic | 18:24 |
| de-facto | i dont think so, since they would have problems with bleeding etc | 18:24 |
| de-facto | its caused by the platelets sticking together hence depleting in the serum | 18:25 |
| LjL | They are not large double blind trials (with the frequency of these events that's basically impossible) but they are better than what I van offer you by tapping on my phone now | 18:25 |
| [Kraken | thats ok, just conversing | 18:25 |
| pwr22 | My theory is that the AZ spike is causing increased platelet activation in some people, so they form a bunch of small clots everywhere and deplete their serum platelets | 18:25 |
| pwr22 | I wonder if it would be fixed with the small changes in the BNT spike | 18:25 |
| de-facto | afaik Janssen got those and still has those (very rate) issues | 18:26 |
| pwr22 | Ah, so maybe it's something about this chimp virus itself? | 18:26 |
| de-facto | the S-2P prefusion stabilizations | 18:26 |
| pwr22 | It must be a relatively weak effect that chains unfortunately when it manages to start or it must only effect certain people because it's so rare | 18:26 |
| rpifan | chimp virus? | 18:27 |
| de-facto | well Janssen uses Ad.26 not ChAdOx1 Adenovirus hence maybe about Adenovirus vectors in general? | 18:27 |
| pwr22 | Is that a human one? | 18:27 |
| de-facto | yes | 18:27 |
| pwr22 | Adenoviruses aren't exactly rare - you'd have thought we might have noticed this before now? | 18:28 |
| de-facto | afaik found in children faeces or such | 18:28 |
| pwr22 | Or I support we could just consider that we are in permanent harmless cold pandemics and so it's impossible to separate the signal from the noise easily? | 18:28 |
| pwr22 | *suppose | 18:28 |
| de-facto | more common is the Ad.5 one afaik, hence Sputnik uses Ad.26 for priming and Ad.5 for boosting | 18:29 |
| de-facto | not sure pwr22 normally Adenoviruses would not be injected into the muscle and for sure not in such gigantic amounts | 18:30 |
| pwr22 | 😀 | 18:30 |
| de-facto | yet again, these adverse events are extremely rare and maybe, who knows, the immune reaction is more "broad" than mRNA with some emphasis on cellular immunity? | 18:31 |
| de-facto | fatalities are going down rapidly in UK right? | 18:32 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, our cases and deaths are are the lowest they've been in a long time | 18:32 |
| de-facto | yet B.1.617.2 seems to be able to increase against B.1.1.7, possibly due to some escape capabilities? | 18:33 |
| de-facto | https://covid19.sanger.ac.uk/lineages/raw | 18:33 |
| pwr22 | deaths are on the order of 10 per day now | 18:33 |
| de-facto | .title | 18:33 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From covid19.sanger.ac.uk: COVID-19 Genomic Surveillance â Wellcome Sanger Institute | 18:33 |
| pwr22 | our peak was 1250 | 18:33 |
| de-facto | pwr22, thats very good news that fatalities went down so far | 18:33 |
| pwr22 | I find it hard to believe that AZ isn't incredibly effective at the current dominant variants in the UK given how heavily we are pumping AZ into people here | 18:34 |
| de-facto | yet i hope those B.1.617.2 clusters that increase exponentially were in non-vaccinated sub-populations in UK | 18:34 |
| pwr22 | Yeah we'll see, if not then I expect to see those reach 3000 cases next week | 18:35 |
| de-facto | yes AZ seems to work pretty well for B.1.1.7 | 18:35 |
| de-facto | (as do the mRNA ones too btw) | 18:36 |
| pwr22 | Now if only we would strictly shut out borders and behave like we are an island nation in a pandemic 😛 | 18:36 |
| de-facto | well that would be a smart move indeed | 18:36 |
| de-facto | but i guess it will never happen, people want to fly and do ultra-rapid-tests instead | 18:36 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, people I know have booked holidays for June, July, August abroad already 🤦♂️ | 18:37 |
| pwr22 | One of them is convinced everyone is overreacting and would have preferred we have no lockdowns and they were allowed to do whatever they wanted | 18:37 |
| pwr22 | Since covid hasn't affected them and just inconveniences them ☹️ | 18:38 |
| de-facto | well and that is why it will continue | 18:38 |
| pwr22 | I remember the early modelling done in the UK assuming Boris would not have valued trying and failing to save the economy over human lives | 18:38 |
| pwr22 | UK 20k deaths best case, 40k worst case | 18:39 |
| pwr22 | We are at 130k deaths now | 18:39 |
| pwr22 | Still 4th or 5th worst in the world iirc | 18:39 |
| Arsanerit | It seems a bit early to make such rankings of worst in the world. | 18:39 |
| de-facto | unfortunately yeah, its not over yet | 18:39 |
| pwr22 | Well it's certainly possible to look at the figures today I mean | 18:40 |
| pwr22 | I don't know anything about tomorrow, or next year | 18:40 |
| Arsanerit | I was shocked to learn that B.1.617 is already present in Germany, so it's too late to close the border to that one. | 18:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +5073 cases (now 1.3 million), +20 deaths (now 24776) since 21 hours ago | 18:40 |
| de-facto | but the hope woudl be that even if infections could not be fully prevented, fatal progressions would be reduced significantly for all those nasty VoCs | 18:41 |
| pwr22 | Yeah and harder to do in a nation with land borders too | 18:41 |
| de-facto | ultimately only time can tell though | 18:41 |
| Arsanerit | Fully closing Germany's borders is not practically possible. | 18:41 |
| de-facto | why not? | 18:42 |
| rpifan | we should | 18:42 |
| rpifan | but we cant | 18:42 |
| rpifan | we should also do a hard lockdown | 18:42 |
| rpifan | force all work to be hfrom home | 18:42 |
| de-facto | logistics could be done with switching drivers on the borders | 18:42 |
| Arsanerit | Because Germany's borders are too long, and there are too many border crossings. | 18:42 |
| de-facto | well then military should be employed to secure the borders | 18:42 |
| Arsanerit | How do you stop mountaineers from crossing via the Zugspitze? | 18:42 |
| rpifan | but dont tell the germans they cant go to work in an office theyll collapse | 18:42 |
| pwr22 | <de-facto "logistics could be done with swi"> Sure but leaks will happen I bet still | 18:42 |
| rpifan | lack of oxygen is enough | 18:42 |
| pwr22 | I do agree that best efforts should be taken really | 18:42 |
| pwr22 | They won't be | 18:42 |
| pwr22 | But I think they should personally | 18:43 |
| Arsanerit | Germany tried a closed border before at the Innerdeutsche Grenze, and even that one wasn't fully closed. | 18:43 |
| rpifan | it worked fine enough | 18:43 |
| Arsanerit | Thailand tried to keep the virus out by closing its borders, but clandestine immigration still brought the virus or new variants in. | 18:43 |
| de-facto | ultimately its all about lowering the probabilities of importing the nastiest selection of VoCs worldwide, and that could be achieved with prohibiting international travel and closing the borders as good as possible | 18:43 |
| de-facto | the leaks that occur may be that few that they just run into dead ends | 18:44 |
| Arsanerit | Yes, you can lower the probability, but a transit country like Germany cannot eliminate it. | 18:44 |
| de-facto | but if they constantly get re-seeded by new travelers arriving, the overall probability that one manages to fuel an exponential cluster increases a lot | 18:44 |
| Arsanerit | They should certainly lower the probability more than they currently are, but there is a balance question of how far to go in enforcing a closed border. | 18:45 |
| de-facto | imho it just should be enforced, but it seems i am the only one thinking like that | 18:45 |
| Arsanerit | Germany has bad memories of military enforcing of a closed border. That's not going to fly. | 18:46 |
| rpifan | hence why we dont even have an ausgangsperre in berlin | 18:46 |
| rpifan | apparently its only an ausgangbeschrengung | 18:46 |
| rpifan | the germans as always rudely corrected me | 18:46 |
| Arsanerit | I think by now the German strategy is mass vaccination hoping that will prevent enough severe cases so that even VoCs won't overwhelm intensive care systems, and vaccinate again if some VoCs escape vaccination to some degree. | 18:46 |
| Arsanerit | We have a Ausgangssperre here in (parts of) Hessen, but only by night. | 18:47 |
| Arsanerit | But importing VoC after VoC is the bigger problem imho. | 18:47 |
| Arsanerit | Vaccines help. | 18:48 |
| pwr22 | How's the vaccine supply looking over in the EU now? | 18:48 |
| Arsanerit | Much better. | 18:48 |
| de-facto | tbh the strategy also seems to ensure that incidence does not go down too quickly to motivate people to go for vaccinations or immunize them by infection instead, why else do they instantly open once the number of infections goes below a certain threshold that is places above a value that could be controlled by tracing ? | 18:48 |
| pwr22 | That's good at least! | 18:48 |
| Arsanerit | Germany is now vaccination faster than the UK ever was. | 18:48 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit, really? | 18:48 |
| pwr22 | Really? That's pretty crazy | 18:49 |
| LjL | hats off to this guy https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/nac4dd/seychelles_worlds_most_vaccinated_nation/gxtzuyw/ | 18:49 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: according to https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations yes | 18:49 |
| pwr22 | I think we're more than .5million a day atm? | 18:49 |
| de-facto | https://impfdashboard.de/ | 18:49 |
| de-facto | 1M per day | 18:49 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: 0.90% was vaccinated on 11 May, UK peak on 22 March was 0.88%. | 18:49 |
| pwr22 | Nice, is it all first doses at this point or both? | 18:50 |
| Arsanerit | This is total doses administrated I think | 18:50 |
| Arsanerit | They use 6 weeks between BioNTech doses, they've only seriously ramped up quite recently so it'll be primarily first dose at this point | 18:51 |
| Arsanerit | I'll get my first those on Sunday morning (BioNTech). | 18:51 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit, indeed hey thats good https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-vaccination-doses-per-capita?tab=chart&country=DEU~GBR | 18:51 |
| Arsanerit | It appears the new production facility by BioNTech in Marburg is really helping. | 18:52 |
| pwr22 | If you look at the UK graph its crazy how much of an impact the velocity took when we started prioritising second doses | 18:52 |
| Arsanerit | pwr22: Is that what happened early April? | 18:52 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit, but i heard that soon a lot of "second-dosers" are due to schedule, so maybe that will slow it down again? | 18:52 |
| pwr22 | Arsanerit: yeah, I don't think the total number of doses given a day really changed but we had hit the 12 week window for the earliest high risk recipients | 18:53 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: Why would that slow down total doses per capita per day? | 18:53 |
| Arsanerit | I can see how it would slow down new first doses per capita per day. | 18:54 |
| Arsanerit | But I think the graph shows total doses per capita per day. | 18:54 |
| de-facto | yes i meant that it would slow down "first-dosers" | 18:54 |
| pwr22 | Yeah looks like you're vaccinating a little bit faster than the UK in terms of raw doses per person which is is a decent rate | 18:55 |
| pwr22 | Have you started seeing the effects on the cases and deaths yet? | 18:55 |
| de-facto | interestingly China also is increasing with their vaccinations a lot, thats good | 18:55 |
| Arsanerit | In UK using Janssen much? Needing only one dose, that would skew the "doses per capita" figure quite a bit. | 18:55 |
| Arsanerit | My sister was vaccinated with Janssen. | 18:55 |
| pwr22 | I think we have bought some but I don't know anyone who has got it | 18:55 |
| pwr22 | Maybe we are thinking of using it for a booster? | 18:56 |
| de-facto | pwr22, yeah but by far not as much as in UK https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/ | 18:56 |
| Arsanerit | My sister is in The Netherlands and works in healthcare. | 18:56 |
| pwr22 | All my family working in healthcare over here got Pfizer | 18:57 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: hopefully it starts coming down a lot soon! | 18:58 |
| de-facto | Africa got far too less vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-covid-vaccinations-continent?country=Africa~Asia~Europe~North+America~Oceania~South+America | 18:58 |
| Arsanerit | Here they do six weeks for Comirnaty and twelve weeks for Vaxzevria, which anecdotally has led at least one colleague to prefer to wait a bit for Comirnaty as he gambled his second dose would still arrive earlier despite the wait... | 18:58 |
| de-facto | pwr22, i hope so too, we will see | 18:59 |
| pwr22 | I blame Bill Gates and his consortium for the third world getting screwed over | 18:59 |
| pwr22 | The early response to covid was literally inspiring | 18:59 |
| pwr22 | then the money caught up | 18:59 |
| de-facto | i think its extremely important that they get their doses too there and NOW | 18:59 |
| de-facto | because we all need to do it synchronized, otherwise it just will echo back at us with some nasty VoC | 19:00 |
| pwr22 | I hope Biden forces that patent / IP waver through so we can really open up the flood gates on production | 19:00 |
| pwr22 | Though maybe I should sell my shares in Pfizer 😀 | 19:00 |
| de-facto | it may possibly help, but ultimately its the production rates themselves that are the metric | 19:01 |
| de-facto | and its not the RNA sequence that is difficult, its putting them into those LNPs | 19:01 |
| de-facto | and even if patents would be put on hold, it probably would require quite some technology transfer to enable other companies to do that | 19:01 |
| de-facto | and then there would be even more competition for the raw materials on the market | 19:02 |
| pwr22 | Sure, but I bet they know how to build the technology now (due to copying) but can't due to patents? | 19:02 |
| de-facto | afaik those are the limiting factors right now, the encapsulation into LNPs and the supply of raw materials for that | 19:02 |
| pwr22 | What are the limiting raw materials? Can't production of them also increase? | 19:02 |
| de-facto | so potentially solving that would increase production rates more than just suspending patents and think its solved with that | 19:02 |
| de-facto | i think those fancy lipids for the lipid nano particles | 19:03 |
| pwr22 | <de-facto "so potentially solving that woul"> That said, the virus vectors can just be grown in incubators by anyone who can keep the conditions right? | 19:03 |
| de-facto | and the process to encapsulate the mRNA into them | 19:03 |
| pwr22 | Sure they need the magic hosts with the extra genes in them to grow | 19:04 |
| pwr22 | But I guess those are available / easier to make than the novel mRNA encapsulation stuff | 19:04 |
| de-facto | pwr22, well the virus vector ones can be grown in 2000 liter incubators with special cell lines, probably easier to achieve, idk, but also quality control is crucial | 19:04 |
| pwr22 | I mean, I'm fairly sure I could achieve it given a lab and the raw materials | 19:04 |
| de-facto | i mean even AstraZeneca was struggling at first with scaling up the process they received from Oxford | 19:05 |
| pwr22 | Sure, but still better than nothing for places like africa or countries who want to invest nationally in vaccine infrastructure | 19:05 |
| de-facto | yet State Serum Institute in India can do it too | 19:05 |
| de-facto | possibly also others worldwide | 19:05 |
| pwr22 | Sure, but AZ doesn't usually produce this type of thing afaik? | 19:05 |
| pwr22 | They were more a pure pharmaceuticals place I though | 19:05 |
| pwr22 | cancer treatements and stuff? | 19:05 |
| de-facto | i think it would be more important to solve the supply problem and really identify the bottlenecks in current production lines, and massively scale them up as far as possible | 19:06 |
| finely[m] | <Arsanerit "Thailand tried to keep the virus"> A lot of human trafficking and corrupt police aiding it. | 19:06 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: and Pfizer want to start charging 10x more for their jabs I hear too? | 19:07 |
| de-facto | btw i am not saying that patents should not be put on hold, maybe it could help, but i am sure its not the full solution, only production itself is the real metric | 19:07 |
| finely[m] | <de-facto "the leaks that occur may be that"> Or few enough that contact tracing and ring vaccination can contain the leaks. | 19:07 |
| de-facto | pwr22, not sure about that one | 19:07 |
| pwr22 | Pretty sure when they announced it my Pfizer shares shot up more | 19:08 |
| pwr22 | they're up 13% on february | 19:08 |
| pwr22 | They consider their current pricing to be "pandemic pricing" and are eager to sign new agreements at their "normal pricing" of $160-200 a dose | 19:09 |
| pwr22 | So that's $320-400 per person | 19:09 |
| de-facto | pwr22, it would be a bit of a scandal, because BNT shots are based on publicly funded research as well as BioNTech was funded with German taxpayers money, so why would Pfizer have the right to make a shitload of profit with that? | 19:09 |
| pwr22 | Due to 2 doses at least required | 19:09 |
| LjL | de-facto, because they just do | 19:09 |
| LjL | they have already announced it | 19:09 |
| pwr22 | I guess because pfizer are the big pharma gatekeeper and are totally evil | 19:10 |
| LjL | why hasn't there been a scandal yet? | 19:10 |
| LjL | the anouncement was public | 19:10 |
| pwr22 | Do pfizer even produce it? Or is it BNT who produce it? | 19:10 |
| LjL | you keep repeating this thing that the vaccine "belongs" to BNT but no matter how much Pfizer has done in practice, that doesn't dictate which IP rights they have | 19:10 |
| de-facto | Pfizer did not develop that technology nor the shots themselves, they were *paid* to do the trials for BioNTech and now produce and supply them too, granted that is very important, since what really matters are production rates | 19:10 |
| LjL | pwr22, Pfizer produce it | 19:10 |
| de-facto | LjL, yeah unfortunately | 19:11 |
| pwr22 | Ah yeah, so they are the producer and the distributor and have exclusive rights | 19:11 |
| pwr22 | And are typical giant evil US big pharma | 19:11 |
| pwr22 | So they will do what they want | 19:11 |
| de-facto | not sure if they have exclusive rights, i think EU bought from BNT but i am not sure | 19:11 |
| pwr22 | Germany can complain, and hopefully sue them in US courts | 19:11 |
| pwr22 | Covid will be long gone by the time that's through and all the levels of appeals that will happen | 19:12 |
| de-facto | yeah that does not help right now with increasing doses | 19:12 |
| pwr22 | And the settlement the German gov will get will be tiny compared to what Pfizer made with their dodgy practices | 19:12 |
| de-facto | if they use that money to increase production capacity, well fuck it, why not. | 19:12 |
| pwr22 | They won't lol | 19:12 |
| pwr22 | They want to charge more, not produce more | 19:12 |
| pwr22 | my feeling anyway | 19:13 |
| de-facto | that might be a problem yeah | 19:13 |
| pwr22 | So anyway, if others can produce their stuff it may increase supply but it will even more so force them to be competitive to make it non-lucrative to setup | 19:13 |
| de-facto | we need more shots to give them to everyone worldwide | 19:13 |
| pwr22 | Like if you can sell a dose for $100, well below Pfizer, maybe it makes sense for AZ to setup show for instance | 19:13 |
| finely[m] | <de-facto "it may possibly help, but ultima"> A new mRNA faculty can be built in three months. Trained personnel might be the limiting factor. Mass education of a suitably sized workforce is entirely possible. Then we need a war time command economy to manufacture the inputs. | 19:13 |
| pwr22 | And then if they can create their new unique IP that reuses the same production facilities, the more the better | 19:14 |
| LjL | i'm afraid BNT/Pfizer won't be a vaccine that gets widely used "worldwide" (meaning mostly for the poorer countries) | 19:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Vaccination: When will COVID-19 vaccines be widely available globally? → https://is.gd/B56LNu | 19:14 |
| de-facto | finely[m], yes i agree we SHOULD have a wartime command economy in regards to vaccines | 19:14 |
| LjL | i don't like that Pfizer announced they don't think there is a need to update their vaccine for variants. sure, the results of their latest study were good, 75% efficacy is still high... but unless we stay on top of this, well, we won't be on top of this | 19:14 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "i'm afraid BNT/Pfizer won't be a"> Yeah, given the costs I would think AZ would be much cheaper | 19:15 |
| finely[m] | <pwr22 "What are the limiting raw materi"> Last I heard there was even a shortage of glass vials. Why we have multi dose vials for the vaccines now. | 19:15 |
| de-facto | our current problem are not the vaccine supply rates in the rich countries, yes they still are too slow, but they are ORDERS of magnitude slower in the poor countries, thats the real problem | 19:16 |
| pwr22 | <de-facto "finely, yes i agree we SHOULD ha"> I still don't understand why the NHS doesn't include inhouse fabrication facilities | 19:16 |
| de-facto | they bet on free market capacity, not on wartime command economy | 19:16 |
| de-facto | well US did a bit more of that wartime command approach, and yes it went faster for them | 19:17 |
| pwr22 | I got the feeling we were moving towards command economy (not think we need to bring war into it really - even though it's the historical most common cause of them) - early in the pandemic | 19:17 |
| pwr22 | But then the free market came and punched it in the face | 19:18 |
| pwr22 | Yeah it's kind of crazy that the US seemed to do more of a command economy in other places | 19:18 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Gli impegni del Presidente Draghi di venerdì 14 maggio ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/gli-impegni-del-presidente-draghi-di-venerd-14-maggio/16853 ) | 19:21 | |
| de-facto | in an ideal world we would have small local facilities, e.g. in many pharmacies, that would allow mRNA printing and packaging in to LNPs, so immunity updates could be targeted localized at specific pathogens and their variants via data transfer to those | 19:21 |
| de-facto | if we would have such a network worldwide we could vaccinate much faster and with much more up-to-date signatures for antigens | 19:22 |
| de-facto | how cool would that be? downloading immunizations from the internet and printing them out locally? | 19:23 |
| finely[m] | <de-facto "i think it would be more importa"> The supply problem needs to be solved as well as an IP waiver, and collaborative transfer of knowledge to all companies that want it. | 19:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Vaccine passports: Why they are good for society: As more and more people get vaccinated, some governments are relying on "vaccine passports" as a way of reopening society. These passports are essentially certificates that show the holder has been immunized against COVID-19, which restaurants, pubs, bars, sports venues and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/a4OtCM | 19:25 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: yeah the future will be pretty sweet! | 19:25 |
| de-facto | afaik Tesa & CureVac are already working on that | 19:25 |
| finely[m] | <pwr22 "de-facto: and Pfizer want to sta"> Just one C suit sociopath saying the quiet part out loud. | 19:25 |
| de-facto | *Tesla & CureVac | 19:25 |
| de-facto | i hate that matrix bridge, always cutting off the relevant bits, i cant see the cite | 19:26 |
| LjL | <pwr22> de-facto: and Pfizer want to start charging 10x more for their jabs I hear too? | 19:27 |
| de-facto | ah yeah that quote | 19:27 |
| LjL | the way the bridge formats quotations is atrocious, but i don't think it would be reasonable for it to post it *all*, as IRC messages are length-limited and there is not generally an expectation that people will repeat a whole message when replying | 19:28 |
| finely[m] | <pwr22 "Like if you can sell a dose for "> That link I just posted put the cost at $1USD per dose. | 19:28 |
| finely[m] | <pwr22 "But then the free market came an"> Monopolies can buy a LOT of lobbyists/politicians. | 19:30 |
| de-facto | btw they do such cooperation, e.g. https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/biontech-fosun-pharma-eye-1b-doses-covid-19-vaccine-capacity-new-china-jv | 19:31 |
| LjL | what are the "big news" in the past few days? i have Pfizer retaining 75% efficacy against B.1.351, it being approved for children 12-15... and i guess maybe now this study about reactogenicity with mixed vaccines, although maybe i should wait until they also have efficacy data | 19:31 |
| finely[m] | <de-facto "in an ideal world we would have "> Yes, one of the benefits of the mRNA factories being orders of magnitude less expensive to build is you could have many of them and reduce the length if cold chain transport. A huge win in less developed countries. | 19:32 |
| de-facto | it would be fantastic if one result of this pandemic would be to establish such a network, since it would be universal, not only for COVID but potentially also usable for future unknown pathogens | 19:34 |
| de-facto | i mean the vaccines we have right now were developed in a timespan of maybe 1-2 months, but then tested a LOT | 19:34 |
| de-facto | that was possible so quickly because they could build upon already developed platforms such as the mRNA or Adenovirus ones | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: How a faster WHO response could have slowed COVID-19's spread: Urgent global action is needed to end the COVID-19 pandemic and prepare for future threats, according to a new report by the Independent Panel for Pandemic Preparedness and Response. → https://is.gd/xLVGuP | 19:36 |
| finely[m] | <de-facto "that was possible so quickly bec"> I think this only applies to mRNA vaccines. And yes, its the kind of system we would be building I'd we had learned anything from this pandemic. | 19:39 |
| finely[m] | We owe a lot to the scientists who spent 40 years developing these techniques. | 19:40 |
| finely[m] | * I think this only applies to mRNA vaccines. And yes, its the kind of system we would be building if we had learned anything from this pandemic. | 19:41 |
| de-facto | yet i am not so sure if humanity is smart enough to learn anything from this, the opportunity is there, but my fear is that they just ignore it and return "back to normal" hence to the state without any biosecurity | 19:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sri Lanka: +2269 cases (now 135796) since 22 hours ago — Italy: +8082 cases (now 4.1 million), +201 deaths (now 123745) since a day ago — Dominica: +3 cases (now 178) since 5 days ago | 19:42 |
| LjL | de-facto: look, since you want so badly for the future to be de-globalized and everyone needing a long quarantine before flying outside or Shengen or whatever, the good news for you is that the way this is being managed, the emergency will never "end", so we'll always have some kind of restrictions in place | 19:46 |
| de-facto | well they are going to open international flights for any vaccinated without tests or quarantine, that sounds to me like they are aiming for their stupid "back to normal" approach, without anything changing due to what we observed and could have learned from this pandemic | 19:47 |
| de-facto | yet obviously out previous "normal" was severely flawed if it allowed for this pandemic to unfold that quickly and spread worldwide | 19:48 |
| de-facto | we are lucky that the pathogen is not as fatal as it could have been, or as the next one could be | 19:48 |
| de-facto | well or maybe we are not lucky, because it means people still dont take this serious enough | 19:49 |
| de-facto | i am not worried about COVID too much, it will be under control at some point, possibly even mostly vanish, but what about the next unknown pathogen out there? | 19:50 |
| pwr22 | Whoa, the discussion is getting a little heated in here | 19:52 |
| finely[m] | Distributed manufacturing of $1 a dose vaccines could get us to the point elimination is possible. Or a least quarantined travel is only neccesary for certain regions that still have community transmission. | 19:52 |
| finely[m] | Right, what if the next one is as transmissible as smallpox? Didn't the US recently refund the WHO programming that was trying to monitor new zoonotic diseases? | 19:52 |
| pwr22 | Just a friendly reminder that we're all together in the pandemic 🙂 | 19:52 |
| pwr22 | And it sucks for everyone 🙂 | 19:53 |
| pwr22 | *:( | 19:53 |
| pwr22 | finely: I think Trump defunded some WHO stuff | 19:54 |
| pwr22 | Probably because they've got bleach so why pay for world health, am I right? | 19:54 |
| de-facto | pwr22, yes thats a very important point indeed, maybe even the most important point, we are all together in this pandemic, i could not agree enough with that | 19:55 |
| finely[m] | It was a US agency, during the pandemic! | 19:55 |
| finely[m] | https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/10/politics/trump-usaid-prevent-program-coronavirus/index.html | 19:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLE POLITICHE AGRICOLE ALIMENTARI E FORESTALI - DECRETO 28 aprile 2021: Revoca dell'autorizzazione concessa con decreto 28 settembre 2007,successivamente rinnovata, al Laboratorio analisi e tecnologieambientali S.r.l., in Milano, al rilascio dei certificati di analisinel settore [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Tsx2Uv | 19:58 |
| finely[m] | As bad as many leaders performed during all this, public health experts have learnt from our mistakes and will do better next time. Part of the reason many Asian countries did so well thus time around was experience with MERS, swine/bird flu, etc. | 20:00 |
| de-facto | i think the knowledge of the public health experts was not the limiting factor, rather politicians not listening to them and/or also too many of the citizens, because ultimately its them making the difference in how a pathogen can spread through society | 20:06 |
| finely[m] | 100% | 20:07 |
| de-facto | according to the behavior of many of the citizens in Asian countries there was a different attitude in regards to biosecurity, just to mention that they were wearing masks in public transports even before this all happened | 20:07 |
| LjL | pwr22: oh you haven't been here enough to see "heated" apparently :P | 20:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Bloom Lab: @jbloom_lab: R to @jbloom_lab: Finally, in this time of unfortunate anti-Asian sentiment in some countries, we note that early in the pandemic it was Chinese doctors, journalists, etc who shared key information about virus’s spread—often at great personal cost [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/fm6Dhc | 20:09 |
| LjL | de-facto is a major contributor to this channel but I can still disagree with some views, or just find them I dunno, not something that almost anybody would want to implement | 20:09 |
| de-facto | sure i am just trying to express my own views, of course those are just as valid any other views | 20:15 |
| LjL | Yes de-facto but since we're always talking about how medical technology is doing gigantic steps forward, couldn't we envision a future with advanced biosecurity but also WITH the ability to go abroad without being in a hotel for a month? I don't know how it could be done but I also don't like the idea of the future being a sort of biosecure cage | 20:17 |
| de-facto | i try to base most on some sources, but i admit sometimes i tend to go towards a bit of wishful thinking, its the last piece of hope i have from all of this mess that is going on right now, my hope in humanity to make something good out of this, to improve, to learn from it, not to waste this opportunity | 20:18 |
| LjL | The other thing is I think sometimes you lack pragmatism about what people could be willing to do. If you say "why don't we do X?" and X is sometimes that people could accept with enough education and information, that's one thing, but if it's "why don't we do Y?" and you admit yourself that it's unlikely to ever happen and be accepted, well, then you already know why we don't | 20:19 |
| LjL | Yes | 20:19 |
| de-facto | yes of course, i know its not going to happen realistically, and tbh that is frustrating me a lot | 20:20 |
| de-facto | because it means it will just repeat one cursed day in the future | 20:20 |
| Arsanerit | Unless climate change kills us all before then. | 20:21 |
| Arsanerit | Given the historical inaction on climate change, we should not be surprised that government is unwilling to listen properly to science in the response to the coronavirus pandemic. | 20:22 |
| de-facto | i fear its going to be linked, both humans and animal populations are going to migrate due to climate change, and that might mean we will encounter dangerous pathogen at even higher rate as we are right now | 20:22 |
| LjL | I can see that. But, I don't know... If I bought into mindfulness, which someone thinks is the solution to much frustration, and they may be right although I seem to refuse to look into it... then maybe mindfulness would say that you need to learn to accept that people just won't do what you say, that it's the reality and part of the many other variables you can't directly control, and if you build up a sort of muscle memory for this, you will be less | 20:23 |
| LjL | frustrated. I'm playing devil's advocate since I cannot bring myself to accept this myself, but there you go | 20:23 |
| Arsanerit | When Al Gore in An Inconvenient Truth claimed a link between SARS and anthropogenic climate change, I was quite skeptical. | 20:23 |
| LjL | Yeah it doesn't help to think that everything's likely to get worse, due to climate change and political instability and other things, but it probably is | 20:23 |
| Arsanerit | It everybody goes vegan in response to climate change, the risk of another zoonosis-induced pandemic is reduced. | 20:26 |
| de-facto | well maybe, but this one did most certainly not originate from cattle et al | 20:27 |
| LjL | de-facto, probably not this one, but it doesn't *have* to originate from cattle for what Arsanerit said to be potentially true: eating meat means a LOT more deforestation than just eating vegetables (because for the same amount of calories, you waste a lot more plant material to feed the animals than if you just ate the plants), and deforestation comes with disrupting animal habitats, and that comes with meeting new pathogens | 20:29 |
| de-facto | and if, for example, bat populations also migrate to other locations because of climate change they might cross the paths with humanity again | 20:29 |
| de-facto | yes that makes sense LjL | 20:29 |
| LjL | i am more or less a vegetarian, and it would be unpleasant for me to go fully vegan. but i think many people eat meat WAY too often and we could reduce that consumption a lot while staying (more) healthy, without just forcing everyone to be vegan | 20:30 |
| LjL | when some meat actually costs less than many vegetables, and poorer people actually end up eating more (bad) meat than wealthier ones, something is quite wrong to me | 20:30 |
| de-facto | i think i heard something like it would be an order of magnitude more resource intense to grow meat than other resources on an area of land | 20:31 |
| LjL | i've heard statements like that too | 20:31 |
| Arsanerit | that's true | 20:31 |
| Arsanerit | for beef it's worse than a factor 10, for chicken it's a bit better than a factor 10, and it depends on many factors, but the detour of soy via an animal stomach to a human stomach rather than directly to a human stomach is very inefficient | 20:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +5701 cases (now 3.6 million), +73 deaths (now 79281) since a day ago — Switzerland: +2 deaths (now 10727) since 19 hours ago | 20:32 |
| de-facto | tbh i am surprised its not much more ineffective than that | 20:32 |
| de-facto | it could already be a progress if humanity was able to realize they always are together in any potential pandemic situation in a globalized world, hence that there should be reached a global agreement on strict measures for containment to prevent such a global spread from happening ever again | 20:35 |
| de-facto | i think one of the main reasons this could spread so fast is that everyone only was thinking about their own asses, e.g. quickly leaving the epicenter of the initial spread and that without any restrictions put in place quickly enough | 20:36 |
| de-facto | i guess its happening again and again on many scales | 20:37 |
| de-facto | for example: if a city in India goes into lockdown and the workers leaving it because they cant earn anymore they will return into the rural areas... and bring the pathogen with them into regions where even less medical systems are available | 20:38 |
| de-facto | not sure how much we even see of such effects in the statistics | 20:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Coronavirus Lingers in Penis and Could Cause Impotence: Coronavirus infection is already known to damage blood vessels, and vessels that supply blood to the penis appear to be no exception. → https://is.gd/Ybup1Q | 20:41 |
| LjL | de-facto, what would you propose those workers do, though? starve? (many did, in the process of trying to walk hundreds of kilometers to safety...) | 20:49 |
| de-facto | i do not know that, i think in such situations solidarity goes a long way | 20:49 |
| LjL | most of them are not registered with the government in any way, that's just how things are in many countries (including mine, no need to go to india even), so they wouldn't be eligible for any sort of help | 20:49 |
| de-facto | it for sure should not be bureaucratic, it just would need to somehow address their needs in a way that allows for both, enabling them to continue with their local life while reducing contact rates and them not migrating the pathogen into the rural areas | 20:51 |
| de-facto | i dont now how exactly to do all that, I just think it is a problem still unsolved | 20:52 |
| de-facto | idk maybe paying them for staying and ensuring they could still buy their everyday needs? | 20:55 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +105 deaths (now 107155) since 23 hours ago | 21:03 |
| de-facto | .title https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/hitting-the-heartland-covid-cases-surge-in-small-towns-and-villages/articleshow/82562920.cms | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From timesofindia.indiatimes.com: India Coronavirus news:Covid cases surge in small towns and villages | India News - Times of India | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: CDC: Vaccinated? You Don't Need a Mask Indoors: People who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 are no longer required to wear masks or physically distance, regardless of location or size of the gathering, the CDC announced today. → https://is.gd/LcdRa1 | 21:46 |
| CoronaBot | /r/coronavirus: Dr. Fauci: 'Put aside your mask' if you're fully vaccinated and outside (10144 votes) | https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/05/13/fauci-masks-outside-harlow-sciutto-cohen-sot-newsroom-vpx.cnn | https://redd.it/nbi105 | 21:49 |
| de-facto | wow. | 21:57 |
| de-facto | so CDC just ignores the different rates of breakthrough with symptomatic infections despite the vaccinations? or do they just want to motivate more to get their shots? | 21:58 |
| LjL | de-facto, it says "and outside". i thought you were saying it yourself that outdoors the risk is extremely low, you told me that when i complained that people here don't always wear masks outside... | 22:15 |
| LjL | what more will it take to do away with masks at least outdoors? 101% efficacy vaccines? | 22:15 |
| LjL | in america, they're at the stage where if you want to get a vaccine, you get a vaccine | 22:16 |
| LjL | there is no shortage anymore, in fact, demand is going down | 22:16 |
| LjL | i think it's not fair to give vaccinated people advantages (like "vaccine passports" that they're doing in the EU) if there are still people who WANT to get vaccinated, but can't yet | 22:17 |
| LjL | but if everyone can get vaccinated, then in my opinion sure, tell them they can avoid the mask outdoors | 22:17 |
| LjL | tell them they can meet their relatives | 22:17 |
| LjL | they can, that was the whole point of having an effective vaccine rollout | 22:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Listen: Lessons from a botched pandemic response, CDC sluggishness, & the future of health tech: Can we prevent the next Covid-19? Has the CDC become too cautious? And how many sensors should be worn to bed? All that and more on the latest episode of… → https://is.gd/PpIkaJ | 22:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: CDC: No masks needed for COVID-vaccinated Americans: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News May 13, 2021 "If you are fully vaccinated, you can start doing the things that you had stopped doing because of the pandemic." → https://is.gd/BVvSpK | 22:40 |
| rpifan | sad | 22:50 |
| dTal | I don't bother with a mask outdoors unless I'm in a really crowded place, which of course I never am because what am I stupid | 23:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Immunocompromised pediatric patients showed T-cell activity and humoral immunity against SARS-CoV-2: According to data from a cohort of adult and pediatric patients with antibody deficiencies, patients that often fail to make protective immune responses to infections and vaccinations showed robust T-cell activity and humoral [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/UJFlgY | 23:12 |
| de-facto | LjL, i think its a question of common sense, of course it makes little difference if i wear my mask outdoors when i drive alone with the bicycle or go for a walk, far away from other people, in scenarios were i would not even smell any cigarette smoke if all people were smokers | 23:20 |
| de-facto | that changes when we are talking about crowded places where lots of "sources" come together saturating the local air with aerosol and people also dont distance, spitting at each others faces etc | 23:22 |
| de-facto | i think that was also seen with analysis of those demonstrations, there was a clear rise in the numbers because they did not distance, yet idk if it happened outdoors or during their travel to the gathering | 23:24 |
| de-facto | probably both | 23:24 |
| de-facto | the more critical is indoors imho, i guess we will see | 23:24 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html | 23:27 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.cdc.gov: When Youâve Been Fully Vaccinated | CDC | 23:27 |
| de-facto | ok seems they do require fully vaccinated to wear mask in some scenarios and also get tested | 23:30 |
| de-facto | so it seems they are not as careless as the Germans and assume fully vaccinated still can be infectious in some scenarios, thats realistic i guess | 23:31 |
| LjL | Italy is moving Pfizer second doses by 2 weeks (so 21+14 days presumably) to give more first doses | 23:48 |
| de-facto | just talked to a friend, she was scheduled with BioNTech booster 6 weeks after primer in Germany | 23:56 |
| rpifan | booster? | 23:58 |
| rpifan | those are out already? | 23:58 |
| de-facto | no | 23:59 |
| de-facto | BioNTech, Moderna and AstraZeneca are two dose schemes, one primer and one booster, per approval and design | 23:59 |
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