| LjL | waitingformagic, let's just keep it in the channel, it's basically what it's there for! | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | i just think that most European governments have consistently done things that have made the virus situation worse | 00:00 |
| LjL | either in the name of economy or with arguments like "we're being careful and doing things slowly" (except not really, or the wrong things) | 00:00 |
| LjL | one recent example has been the Indian variants being imported | 00:01 |
| LjL | it might have been inevitable, but one should at least *try* to avoid it... instead, it took weeks or months before countries decided to actually stop flights from India | 00:01 |
| waitingformagic | It's difficult to shut the border of the entire EU | 00:01 |
| LjL | it might be difficult to completely seal it, but it's definitely possible to at least *try* to stop entry | 00:02 |
| LjL | that is, to say, okay, from now on, sorry but people from India cannot enter the EU (or the UK) | 00:02 |
| LjL | which has been done, now, so it *is* possible | 00:02 |
| LjL | but it should have been done... a lot sooner | 00:02 |
| LjL | now the Indian variant is already rising exponentially and doubling every week in the UK | 00:03 |
| LjL | just as Boris Johnson announces that it may put the plans to reopen in jeopardy, other countries like Italy reopen to people from the UK (which previously required a quarantine to enter). again, self-defeating, in the name of tourism or whatever | 00:03 |
| LjL | and while the UK has a lot of its population vaccinated, so hopefully the Indian variant won't cause *too* much of a problem, that's not true of Italy | 00:04 |
| LjL | it's not true of any part of the EU, so it's suicidal to open things up just when vaccine uptake is still too low and a new, likely much more infectious, variant is coming in | 00:04 |
| waitingformagic | It was always my understanding that the vaccine was to prevent you the individual from becoming sick to the point you'd choke out the health system | 00:05 |
| waitingformagic | not the it would stop the transmission of the virus | 00:05 |
| waitingformagic | is that a correct assumption ? | 00:05 |
| waitingformagic | if it is then your point is valid | 00:06 |
| LjL | no, it's not a correct assumption | 00:08 |
| waitingformagic | then I require enlightenment my friend | 00:09 |
| LjL | authorities and experts repeatedly warned that the vaccine *may not* stop the transmission, or not fully, because we didn't have clear evidence that it would, and because that was the safe default | 00:09 |
| LjL | but at the same time, due to how vaccines work, it was extremely likely that the vaccines *would* have stopped or at least severely hindered transmission | 00:09 |
| LjL | the details are hazy, and for example AZ may behave differently from Pfizer in this respect, but there is enough tentative evidence now to say that vaccine do stop the transmission, for the most part | 00:10 |
| LjL | but also such statements need to always be qualified: do they stop it for all the variants in circulation, or just the prevailing one? | 00:10 |
| waitingformagic | my point exactly | 00:10 |
| LjL | right now, we know that AZ doesn't stop the South African variant, for example (B.1.351) | 00:10 |
| LjL | we "seem to be hopeful" that the the vaccine works well against the Indian variant (B.1.617.x), but we don't have studies making that certain | 00:11 |
| waitingformagic | better to say , keep the distancing and masks on everyone , this fights not over | 00:11 |
| LjL | and the variant does seem to have an infection advantage over the "old" B.1.1.7 variant, so clearly it's an important unknown | 00:11 |
| LjL | well, they do say that | 00:11 |
| LjL | i just don't think it's enough | 00:11 |
| LjL | people will do what people will do, but the big difference, if any, will be made by bigger policy decisions | 00:12 |
| waitingformagic | people are class A1 fucking idiots | 00:12 |
| waitingformagic | that's a given | 00:12 |
| LjL | and as i said, the UK has a lot of its population vaccinated, but the EU doesn't, so the EU should be extremely careful about importing any variant that may be more infectious or more dangerous or more anything than what we already have | 00:12 |
| waitingformagic | I agree | 00:12 |
| LjL | i will keep washing my hands and wearing my mask and mostly staying home in the meanwhile, sure | 00:13 |
| waitingformagic | Welsh First Minister today said to paraphrase - While its not illegal for you to take a foreign holiday, of ALL the years to NOT do it , this is the one | 00:13 |
| waitingformagic | common sense | 00:14 |
| LjL | it does seem like common sense, doesn't it? but as they say, it's not so common | 00:14 |
| waitingformagic | sense wasn't dished out evenly it would appear | 00:14 |
| LjL | people are eager to have holidays and stuff and many don't really see the danger, still (or even think "there was little danger before, now we're vaccinated, there's virtually none") | 00:14 |
| waitingformagic | I see no rush to foreign shores THIS year | 00:14 |
| waitingformagic | next year maybe | 00:15 |
| waitingformagic | MAYBE | 00:15 |
| LjL | have you listened to Boris Johnson's press conference? | 00:15 |
| waitingformagic | No | 00:15 |
| LjL | i'm not usually too eager to make people listen to Boris Johnson | 00:15 |
| waitingformagic | was it like being hit with a public school rugby tackle | 00:16 |
| LjL | but i am baffled by the disconnect between the severity of what he's saying, and the fact the EU is reopening | 00:16 |
| LjL | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI3PTH_GiAc | 00:16 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.youtube.com: Prima di continuare su YouTube | 00:16 |
| waitingformagic | the UK spends a fuck ton of money in the sun every year | 00:16 |
| waitingformagic | global warming will fuck that | 00:17 |
| waitingformagic | but thats a different channel :) | 00:17 |
| waitingformagic | back in 2 | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: United States announces $7 Billion to Hire and Train Public Health Workers in Response to COVID-19, $400 million invested to Launch Public Health AmeriCorps, $3 billion to 'Create a New Program to Modernize the Public Health Workforce'. → https://is.gd/auGrSo | 00:18 |
| waitingformagic | back | 00:21 |
| dTal | LjL: I reckon Boris had an epiphany when he said that opening up was gonna cause deaths but they were gonna do it anyway | 00:22 |
| waitingformagic | I read in passing a US state was going to offer a $1million to 5 people at random for having the vaccine | 00:22 |
| dTal | he's realized he can *do* whatever, as long as he makes soft clucking noises of warning | 00:22 |
| dTal | and people will ignore him, and then he can say "told you so" | 00:23 |
| LjL | and he's got antibodies! | 00:23 |
| LjL | oh yes that is a thing | 00:23 |
| LjL | covering ass by being like "hey the people didn't listen to out words of caution" | 00:23 |
| LjL | that's why i'm annoyed by these policy actions more than by people behaving in silly ways | 00:23 |
| dTal | (but also encouraging people to ignore the words caution) | 00:23 |
| LjL | because people *will* behave in the ways they can be *predicted*, as groups, to behave | 00:23 |
| LjL | but the policy actions cannot take that as an excuse to be sloppy | 00:24 |
| LjL | well, they can, but it gets on my nerves | 00:24 |
| waitingformagic | thats not a covid discussion though is it | 00:24 |
| waitingformagic | its a freedom discussion | 00:24 |
| waitingformagic | do you think government should compel you by force to comply | 00:25 |
| waitingformagic | or | 00:25 |
| waitingformagic | you're an individual who gets to act within guidelines | 00:25 |
| waitingformagic | or | 00:25 |
| LjL | i think that boat has sailed, governments including the UK one have already compelled people to observe lockdowns, which are sets of rules that would normally be judged unconstitutional just about anywhere sane | 00:25 |
| LjL | anyway that's not even what i'm talking about | 00:25 |
| waitingformagic | pfff you could break lockdown in the UK easily | 00:26 |
| LjL | what i'm talking about is you can't keep flights from India going, while later blaming people for not observing your guidelines | 00:26 |
| waitingformagic | Australia there were cops at the end of the road stopping you | 00:26 |
| LjL | if you're Italy you can't keep flights from Britain going, just because you know you can later blame people for not being "cautious" as you told them to be | 00:26 |
| dTal | To be fair, as fun as it is to rag on Boris, he's shooting pretty straight in that breifing | 00:26 |
| dTal | *briefing | 00:26 |
| waitingformagic | I concede my point to rest to yours being the discussion | 00:27 |
| LjL | does that make a "philosophical" difference waitingformagic? it sure makes a practical difference in how effective the lockdowns are, but in both cases, you are legally compelled to comply | 00:27 |
| waitingformagic | see above | 00:27 |
| waitingformagic | open borders don't work | 00:27 |
| waitingformagic | to return to the point of your discussion | 00:27 |
| LjL | dTal, yeah that's why i say it's sobering, or rather, befuddling, to listen to the gravity of what he says while seeing the contrast of my country reopening in many ways including to UK tourism | 00:27 |
| waitingformagic | remember the early days | 00:27 |
| waitingformagic | NZ wow | 00:28 |
| waitingformagic | easy though as they are the arse end of the world | 00:28 |
| waitingformagic | I have people in Western Australia - borders to the rest of AU shut - cases in the handful and traced | 00:29 |
| waitingformagic | economy, who knows what the cost is | 00:29 |
| LjL | yes, and sure, those are islands, that does make things easier, but uh, the UK is also an island, and the EU/Schengen, if it acted together, could be not quite an island but less messy than it is now | 00:30 |
| waitingformagic | EU isn't an Island | 00:30 |
| waitingformagic | UK is | 00:30 |
| dTal | I'm not really sure how relevant the island thing is | 00:30 |
| waitingformagic | but so massively interconnected to the rest of the world that the water is irrelevant | 00:31 |
| waitingformagic | yes to your point | 00:31 |
| dTal | there's tons of unstoppable travel, in this globalized world | 00:31 |
| dTal | ya | 00:31 |
| dTal | there's literally an underwater land bridge to France | 00:31 |
| waitingformagic | eurotunnel | 00:32 |
| dTal | *chunnel | 00:32 |
| waitingformagic | star | 00:32 |
| waitingformagic | :) | 00:32 |
| LjL | de-facto, https://youtu.be/GI3PTH_GiAc?t=559 | 00:32 |
| waitingformagic | that thing | 00:32 |
| waitingformagic | funny story | 00:32 |
| dTal | I took the Eurostar once | 00:33 |
| waitingformagic | google - Wellington fear of French invading through tunnels | 00:33 |
| waitingformagic | :) | 00:33 |
| LjL | the tunnel was planned to be built like one century before it actually ended up being | 00:34 |
| dTal | business class, even. So weird to think that London->Paris is so damn quick in reality, if you've got the cash | 00:34 |
| LjL | when they started building it, they actually found the assay tunnels that had been excavated a century prior | 00:34 |
| waitingformagic | yes | 00:34 |
| LjL | but ultimately the project was abandoned mainly due to war-related fears, indeed | 00:34 |
| dTal | I thought it was beyond the engineering of the time | 00:34 |
| waitingformagic | tunnelling was a proper art | 00:34 |
| waitingformagic | noo | 00:34 |
| LjL | dTal, maybe it would have turned out to be, but i don't think that's why it was dropped | 00:35 |
| waitingformagic | they knew how to build stuff | 00:35 |
| dTal | they figured out how to do underwater tunneling, but at that scale? | 00:35 |
| waitingformagic | Thames | 00:35 |
| dTal | yeah I watched a history channel thing on it back when it was good :D | 00:35 |
| waitingformagic | Siene | 00:35 |
| rpifan | i love the eurostar | 00:35 |
| rpifan | i too took the business class | 00:35 |
| dTal | something about being inspired by the shield worm | 00:35 |
| rpifan | was so lovely | 00:35 |
| rpifan | i wish the ride was longer | 00:36 |
| dTal | rpifan: it's good innit | 00:36 |
| waitingformagic | The Spice | 00:36 |
| rpifan | those free breads | 00:36 |
| rpifan | and tea | 00:36 |
| dTal | the food was fantastic | 00:36 |
| rpifan | lol | 00:36 |
| dTal | i got fed salmon | 00:36 |
| rpifan | clearly dTal and i are of the same opinion | 00:36 |
| rpifan | the only issue was the tea cups were tiny | 00:36 |
| rpifan | couldnt get a proper cup of tea | 00:36 |
| dTal | you got the sense that the french were in charge of catering | 00:36 |
| waitingformagic | check dTal the Champaign Charlie with his salmon | 00:36 |
| waitingformagic | :D | 00:36 |
| dTal | excellent food, lame tea | 00:36 |
| LjL | but really, i'm scared again. that sharp rise of cases in Bolton, only in unvaccinated-age people... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI3PTH_GiAc YIKES for any country that doesn't have the UK levels of vaccine deployment. can i like call the president or something? they never listen to me on twitter :( | 00:36 |
| rpifan | dTal, where do you live | 00:37 |
| rpifan | well the eurostar does use tgv train sets | 00:37 |
| dTal | england | 00:37 |
| waitingformagic | England | 00:37 |
| rpifan | and the eurostar is partially owned by the french | 00:37 |
| waitingformagic | had your jab yet dTal ? | 00:37 |
| waitingformagic | AZ here | 00:37 |
| dTal | nope, too young and sprightly for .gov to give a crap | 00:38 |
| rpifan | dTal, i wanan go back ot the uk | 00:38 |
| rpifan | i havent been since i moved to europe | 00:38 |
| rpifan | do you know when they will ope tnehborder | 00:38 |
| waitingformagic | I got the AZ | 00:38 |
| rpifan | i got friends i wanna visit in manchester | 00:38 |
| waitingformagic | sore arm , dizzy lethargy for meh 12hrs - less than a proper hangover | 00:39 |
| waitingformagic | right as rain | 00:39 |
| dTal | I know someone who works in a factory than makes AZ | 00:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Comment] Convalescent plasma in patients hospitalised with COVID-19: As the COVID-19 pandemic continues, researchers continue to search for effective treatments. The often unpredictable disease course of COVID-19 creates a substantial challenge for clinical researchers when identifying ideal patient populations who might [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/yzkvnl | 00:39 |
| waitingformagic | do they piss in it ? | 00:39 |
| waitingformagic | :) | 00:39 |
| dTal | no her job is to make sure no one pisses in it | 00:39 |
| dTal | as I understand it, anyway, it's all terribly abstract | 00:40 |
| waitingformagic | hehe | 00:40 |
| rpifan | lol | 00:40 |
| waitingformagic | I had it at 1100hrs day1, fine until 4am weird fever dreams and then dogshit hangover day - 1800hrs meh could drive a car | 00:41 |
| rpifan | i really want tehc hina one | 00:42 |
| rpifan | ive set my sights on that | 00:42 |
| waitingformagic | get the AZ one | 00:42 |
| rpifan | nah | 00:42 |
| rpifan | too risky | 00:42 |
| waitingformagic | too young ? | 00:42 |
| waitingformagic | I mean the odds are weirdly massive | 00:43 |
| waitingformagic | BUT | 00:43 |
| rpifan | ive got a lot of medical complicatiosn | 00:43 |
| waitingformagic | fair go mate | 00:43 |
| dTal | pfizer for me plz | 00:44 |
| waitingformagic | my motherinlaw got that | 00:44 |
| rpifan | i really just want the traditional inactivated kind | 00:44 |
| waitingformagic | right as rain | 00:44 |
| rpifan | like every other vaccine ever made | 00:44 |
| waitingformagic | my Sister in Austria got AZ | 00:44 |
| waitingformagic | spinning head puking weirdo | 00:44 |
| waitingformagic | when she had the vaccine though | 00:45 |
| dTal | but when the Bill Gates digital rapture comes you won't have a microchip rpifan | 00:45 |
| dTal | you'll get left behind | 00:45 |
| waitingformagic | sorted her right out :) | 00:45 |
| rpifan | dTal, its ok ill get the chinese 5g | 00:45 |
| waitingformagic | pmsl | 00:45 |
| rpifan | waitingformagic, sister in austria and brother in the uk? | 00:45 |
| waitingformagic | I'm the Brother | 00:45 |
| waitingformagic | shes' a teacher | 00:46 |
| rpifan | yea i know i was asking | 00:46 |
| rpifan | ah | 00:46 |
| rpifan | i knew a girl from manchester who taught english in austria | 00:46 |
| waitingformagic | she's in her 50's | 00:46 |
| rpifan | she was taking german classes with me | 00:46 |
| rpifan | online | 00:46 |
| waitingformagic | and was worried about the fact she had to go teach with people who gave zero fucks about the virus | 00:46 |
| waitingformagic | early on | 00:47 |
| rpifan | well at least she is osterreich my sister is a teacher in the US | 00:47 |
| rpifan | and boy did they get fucked | 00:47 |
| rpifan | and she teachs the younger ones | 00:47 |
| waitingformagic | eventually the politicians realized the teachers were about to riot | 00:47 |
| waitingformagic | so within days - get in for vaccine | 00:48 |
| waitingformagic | jab | 00:48 |
| waitingformagic | done | 00:48 |
| waitingformagic | AZ | 00:48 |
| waitingformagic | thing is this | 00:48 |
| waitingformagic | they told them there would be side effects :) | 00:48 |
| waitingformagic | of course the fucking teachers take a day off sick :D | 00:48 |
| waitingformagic | work shy fuckers | 00:48 |
| LjL | i don't think the world is ending because someone takes a day off from vaccine side effects | 00:49 |
| LjL | also not everybody has the same reactions to it and among the 6.5 people i know, i know someone who's had a day of much worse effects than what you described | 00:49 |
| waitingformagic | I don't think levity is taking a hit for me making a joke at teachers swinging the lead LjL | 00:50 |
| waitingformagic | its a piss take | 00:50 |
| * LjL shrugs | 00:50 | |
| rpifan | well in the us teachers got 0 protection | 00:50 |
| rpifan | and they have no union | 00:50 |
| waitingformagic | UK the teachers Unions went mad - demanding it | 00:51 |
| waitingformagic | but the govt plan was - most vulnerable first | 00:51 |
| rpifan | yea i think some states in the us do have a union but my sister does not | 00:51 |
| waitingformagic | so if you were a vulnerable teacher BOOM done | 00:51 |
| waitingformagic | young teacher - you can take your spot after grandma and diabetic Brad | 00:52 |
| waitingformagic | seems to have worked | 00:52 |
| waitingformagic | we'll see though | 00:52 |
| rpifan | i hope the border opens i really wanna go back | 00:52 |
| rpifan | eat some greasy fast food | 00:52 |
| waitingformagic | where you from from rpifan ? | 00:53 |
| waitingformagic | and are you a raspberry pi fan ? | 00:53 |
| rpifan | im from your former colony | 00:53 |
| rpifan | the big one | 00:53 |
| waitingformagic | The United States of America | 00:54 |
| Win7ine | India | 00:54 |
| rpifan | his royal majesties colonies | 00:54 |
| rpifan | the 13 of them | 00:54 |
| waitingformagic | not my colony my friend my family is Irish | 00:54 |
| waitingformagic | :) | 00:54 |
| rpifan | no problem we are still related | 00:55 |
| waitingformagic | we're both sons of empire | 00:55 |
| rpifan | the person who liberated my fathers country from the spain was an irish man | 00:55 |
| waitingformagic | jesus wept we're related | 00:55 |
| waitingformagic | I feel a tune coming on and a bottle opening | 00:56 |
| waitingformagic | :) | 00:56 |
| waitingformagic | how are things where you are ? | 00:56 |
| rpifan | v | 00:56 |
| rpifan | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_O%27Higgins | 00:56 |
| rpifan | here you can see him in his full irish glory | 00:57 |
| waitingformagic | he's far too much hair to be one of my tribe | 00:57 |
| rpifan | many irish ppl dont een know about him | 00:57 |
| rpifan | yet he was one of the most important ppl in the whole history of latin america | 00:57 |
| rpifan | county sligo apparently | 00:57 |
| waitingformagic | ha Cork | 00:58 |
| waitingformagic | those Sligo cunts | 00:58 |
| waitingformagic | not to be trusted | 00:58 |
| waitingformagic | when I say Cork | 00:58 |
| rpifan | i assume u r from the south | 00:58 |
| Win7ine | this channel was COVID related? | 00:58 |
| waitingformagic | I was born in London | 00:58 |
| waitingformagic | Wine7 | 00:58 |
| waitingformagic | you raise a valid point | 00:58 |
| rpifan | fair enough | 00:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: What The New Mask Guidance Means For Unvaccinated Kids — And Their Parents: I'm fully vaccinated, but my kids aren't. Can I safely take off my mask? Do my unvaccinated kids have to keep masking in public? → https://is.gd/BGUxk1 | 01:00 |
| Win7ine | @rpifan latin america was taken from its inhabitants by brute force just the same as north america, what importace does your ancestor have in this? | 01:02 |
| rpifan | im latin american | 01:02 |
| rpifan | my ppl were taken by the europeans | 01:02 |
| rpifan | even genetically im about half native half white | 01:02 |
| waitingformagic | WOAH DUDES | 01:03 |
| waitingformagic | COVID | 01:03 |
| waitingformagic | ! | 01:03 |
| waitingformagic | :D | 01:03 |
| LjL | yes, this channel is COVID-related; yes, i'm fine with occasional offtopic discussion; but if you have to make it into a race argument and who-colonized-whom, then my god back to COVID | 01:03 |
| Win7ine | @rpifan i read soemthing about ireland and irish in your corner ... | 01:04 |
| Win7ine | The Empire | 01:05 |
| waitingformagic | LjL called it | 01:06 |
| waitingformagic | back on topic chaps | 01:06 |
| Win7ine | Reminds me of the "EXPATS" ... everyone lese is an immigrant or emmigrant | 01:06 |
| Win7ine | Whatever suits whenever right? | 01:07 |
| Win7ine | Shame is the ONLY hope! | 01:08 |
| de-facto | so Boris saying Bolton and Blackborn are B.1.617.2 hotspots, why on earth does he not restrict all traveling and establish a perimeter around it without informing people in advance about such intentions | 01:08 |
| de-facto | and then just redirect enough vaccines to get everyone there vaccinated and isolate the infected ones out of their homes in separate hospitals? | 01:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Argentina: +18221 cases (now 3.3 million), +599 deaths (now 69853) since 23 hours ago — India: +1437 deaths (now 262317) since 16 hours ago | 01:09 |
| LjL | de-facto, because that would be cruel and hypocritical after he still allowed travel from India despite knowing about the variants there for a long time...? | 01:09 |
| de-facto | i dont care if it would be considered cruel, i only care that it is contained | 01:09 |
| LjL | well i care | 01:09 |
| LjL | i don't agree with the fallout being on the people when the mistakes are at the government and policy level | 01:09 |
| Win7ine | @de-facto because Boris has not got your number nor have you got his | 01:09 |
| LjL | as i was saying | 01:09 |
| rpifan | bolton? | 01:10 |
| de-facto | i consider it cruel to put the success of the UK people into jeopardy just by allowing it to spread again | 01:10 |
| de-facto | its the job of the government to prevent such things, even if it made mistakes in the past | 01:10 |
| de-facto | and it seems they do know where it is located, hence its their job to use that knowledge to contain it | 01:11 |
| rpifan | i really doubt the uk will backtrack | 01:11 |
| LjL | we also know at the Europe level that it's located in the UK and yet we're opening up | 01:11 |
| rpifan | unless there is a new catastrophe | 01:11 |
| Win7ine | @de-facto how do you measure success, by deathrate per total inhibitants? That is a disaster compared to others | 01:11 |
| rpifan | french has also started to open | 01:11 |
| LjL | the UK won't have a catastrophe with this because they have nearly enough vaccines deployed | 01:12 |
| rpifan | they plan to allow americans in | 01:12 |
| de-facto | the fallout would be on far more people than those localized hotspots if not acted accordingly to the information available to them | 01:12 |
| LjL | the EU doesn't, so how about we tell our governments that | 01:12 |
| LjL | de-facto, so maybe we should kill the people in those places because otherwise they might escape if they discover the plan to isolate them | 01:12 |
| LjL | by which i mean, there are compromises always, including on drastic sudden and surprise quarantines | 01:13 |
| de-facto | enforce them to stay until its under control, and yes with weapons if necessary | 01:13 |
| LjL | oh god | 01:13 |
| de-facto | every compromise works in favor of the pathogen reproduction, we have seen that again and again | 01:14 |
| de-facto | and as long as its spreading with R>1 its not under control | 01:15 |
| de-facto | i bet most people would behave sane and participate in collaboration with a lockdown, but if some think they should behave selfish and quickly leave the area before its shut down (as seen before London went into lockdown), they should be prevented from doing so | 01:16 |
| de-facto | hence it should not be announced in advance but they just should go ahead with it in secret over night or such | 01:16 |
| de-facto | then concentrate all resources on exploiting its still localized there, increase tracing and tracking capacities, isolate identified cases outside their social circles until they are not infectious anymore, of course help the people as much as possible and also progress with vaccinations in such areas as fast as possible | 01:18 |
| de-facto | that would make it as difficult as possible for that variant to spread, hence possibly gain enough time with their national vaccination campaign to progress far enough to also prevent the national spread of it | 01:19 |
| de-facto | its all a question of probabilities, a race against time, the while exponential pyramid is based on those few initial cases of that VoC, hence every control imposed in it now has exponentially amplified effects on the future | 01:19 |
| de-facto | the time to act is not, the window closes with numbers increaseing and people traveling around in the whole country | 01:20 |
| de-facto | do you think many people want to stay in those cities Boris announces during his speeches there? | 01:20 |
| Win7ine | International spread can only be countered by achieving timed inocculations all over the world at once, putting aside greed and all political nonsense | 01:22 |
| de-facto | if they got relatives in another city, well maybe they just decide to leave that place to stay with their friends or relatives in another place: exporting the VoC into many more places and then the advantage of it being localized in smaller clusters is lost | 01:22 |
| de-facto | 100% ack, and also preventing traveling as much as possible | 01:22 |
| Win7ine | for once the world need to collaborate in the name of humanity and not politically incetivated economic greed | 01:23 |
| de-facto | that is very true, we need much more solidarity especially with those countries not producing their own vaccines and not having a healthcare system that can deal with their load of covid cases | 01:25 |
| de-facto | and we have to do it now, all countries worldwide need to rise immunity against it simultaneously and as quickly as possible | 01:26 |
| Win7ine | What do you know about vaccine production ... most of the "Oxford" is produced in India yet they were exporting most of the produce to the UK! | 01:28 |
| Win7ine | The production is a greedy setup, controlled by corporations and paid for by tax payers | 01:28 |
| Win7ine | Govermnets are mere puppets in the game | 01:29 |
| de-facto | State Serum Institute (India) is (was?) worlds largest vaccine manufacturer | 01:29 |
| de-facto | at least for the viral vector ones and similar technology | 01:29 |
| de-facto | afaik not for mRNA | 01:29 |
| Win7ine | THer are only two mRNA, the BionTech and the MOderna, all else is Vector and second class | 01:30 |
| de-facto | https://www.unicef.org/supply/covid-19-vaccine-market-dashboard | 01:31 |
| de-facto | and soon also CureVac would be the third mRNA | 01:31 |
| Win7ine | way behind that CureVac, BionTech are setting up manufacturing in Germany to gain in dependence from Pfizer as a mass producer | 01:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Brazil: +85536 cases (now 15.5 million), +2706 deaths (now 432628) since 18 hours ago — Dominican Rep.: +1059 cases (now 275378), +5 deaths (now 3565) since a day ago | 01:33 |
| de-facto | BioNTech was the developer of BNT162b2 and producing from begin on, they gained more production capacity now, but of course do produce together with Pfizer and many others in international collaboration | 01:35 |
| de-facto | afaik CureVac tries to build up upon an all European supply chain, while still working on achieving their approval, so hopefully they are ready in a month or so? afaik their production facilities are already running | 01:36 |
| de-facto | i guess its quite difficult when relying on supply chains that source parts of their products in USA and them having wartime export bans on some of such products | 01:37 |
| Win7ine | BionTech had a massproduction agreement with Pfizer since their own capacity is/was mediocre as they are a reserach facility and not a production setup. | 01:37 |
| de-facto | then it probably is of great advantage to work together in a collaboration with an American company such as Pfizer | 01:38 |
| Win7ine | Same of Oxford, they are a University Research branch, AstraZeneca is the production partner. | 01:39 |
| LjL | except i understand Oxford was originally going to be a "free for all" (i.e. patent waiver for any company that wanted to produce it), but then somehow AstraZeneca got the exclusive | 01:40 |
| LjL | and... i would say that hasn't turned out to be a very good thing, at least not for the EU | 01:40 |
| waitingformagic | Hello All | 01:40 |
| waitingformagic | can I ask | 01:40 |
| Win7ine | BionTech wil eventually with their planned setup detach from Pfizer in near future and produce in Germany. | 01:40 |
| waitingformagic | what's the point of this discussion ? | 01:40 |
| waitingformagic | sorry | 01:40 |
| de-facto | yes its always like that 1) Publicly funded research (Universities etc) 2) Startup also getting publicly funded developing a product 3) Big Pharma going for the most profitable products while scaling up | 01:40 |
| waitingformagic | weary traveller | 01:41 |
| LjL | de-facto, but like it or not, production at scale (at a scale of 8 billion ideally!) is the major road obstacle to this whole thing | 01:41 |
| Win7ine | @LjL how do you think any of the jab are mad, free for all, some manufacturer need to make it in the tens of million doses, Oxofrd University is not the place for that | 01:42 |
| LjL | there have been many vaccines ideas, a few worked, and there are probably many still in research that *will* work. but production at scale? | 01:42 |
| de-facto | LjL, yes scaling is the most important thing right now | 01:42 |
| LjL | Win7ine, what i'm saying is that my understanding was that Oxford would not get into an exclusive agreement with AstraZeneca, but instead, they would waive the patent, and any company with the capacity to produce the Oxford vaccine at scale would have been legally entitled to do so | 01:43 |
| de-facto | we need production rates to go up massively, they are not producing nearly enough to satisfy the demand of of the most rich countries, let alone all the others (the majority) | 01:43 |
| Win7ine | @waitingofrmagic Oh sorry , fogot the old muble about the Irish saving Latin America | 01:43 |
| waitingformagic | I wouldn't know about that | 01:45 |
| Win7ine | @LjL dream on ... even the creators of the vaccines BionTech and Oxford are too weak to dictate how things go as corporations throw big monies at them to shut them out of such decisions | 01:45 |
| waitingformagic | Son of empire here | 01:45 |
| waitingformagic | wasn't my term old fruit | 01:46 |
| Win7ine | @waitingformagic the Empire is Down, you merely have a little island left called the Great B, soon split as the Scots will depart from said empire too | 01:46 |
| LjL | Win7ine, well i'm not dreaming, i'm just saying it's my understanding that it was originally announced this way, then indeed "big money" somehow changed the plans | 01:48 |
| LjL | can we stop with these jabs about empire and so? | 01:48 |
| de-facto | btw those numbers in UK, showing that in places with B.1.617.2 the increase mainly happened in the young, that MAY be an effect of vaccine protecting the elderly, but with such small and localized numbers, it also MAY just be because of founders effect, the young and the elderly not mixing enough and the new mutant arriving in the young | 01:48 |
| LjL | we were talking about COVID, i'm not sure i can convincingly tell waitingformagic what the "point" of the conversation was, but it was very much a COVID-specific conversation | 01:49 |
| Win7ine | Announced because of public monies being poored into said opeartions, some scrutiniy is not existent | 01:49 |
| waitingformagic | @LjL loud and clear | 01:50 |
| LjL | (also guys, this is not twitter, nicknames will be highlighted just as easily - or more easily - without prepending @ to them) | 01:51 |
| Win7ine | Who in this round had a jab yet? | 01:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Military head of Canada’s vaccine rollout steps aside amid investigation → https://is.gd/M5fTdS | 01:53 |
| * Win7ine slaps waitingformagic around a bit with a large trout | 01:53 | |
| waitingformagic | I've had a Jab | 01:54 |
| waitingformagic | who else | 01:54 |
| Win7ine | That explains it all | 01:54 |
| LjL | no jab here, my parents have had one | 01:55 |
| de-facto | Boris was just asked about increasing vaccinations in hotspots and replied with bla bla, hence its not his intention to contain this while its still in hotspots | 01:56 |
| waitingformagic | jesus wept you're going to worry yourselves into an early grave | 01:56 |
| waitingformagic | get the jab | 01:56 |
| LjL | ? | 01:56 |
| LjL | i cannot "get the jab" | 01:56 |
| LjL | there is a queue to be respected | 01:56 |
| de-facto | i wish i could get one too, yet i cant | 01:56 |
| waitingformagic | good lads thats the spirit | 01:57 |
| de-facto | my parents got 1st dose of BioNTech | 01:57 |
| de-facto | there is just not produced enough to satisfy the demand yet | 01:57 |
| LjL | i will be able to book my jab after 27 May | 01:57 |
| LjL | (no idea when the jab will be *given*, though) | 01:57 |
| waitingformagic | UK ? | 01:58 |
| LjL | no | 01:58 |
| waitingformagic | good luck | 01:58 |
| LjL | thanks | 01:58 |
| waitingformagic | no I mean it | 01:58 |
| waitingformagic | Irish wish luck | 01:58 |
| Win7ine | Had the jab, AstraZ, it took me out, 4 days of agony - dread the second due. | 01:59 |
| LjL | i think we'll have better luck if i somehow convince my health minister to ditch their plans to allow unrestricted flights from the UK | 01:59 |
| LjL | Win7ine, if it helps the anecdotal evidence (well, and some of the trial evidence) is that with AZ, the second shot tends to be less bad (unlike with BNT) | 02:00 |
| waitingformagic | Win7ine I had the AZ jab and it took me out for like 12hrs 8 of which were sleep | 02:00 |
| waitingformagic | I'll give you - theres some epic shit in there | 02:01 |
| LjL | mostly there's a ton of engineered adenoviruses | 02:01 |
| waitingformagic | It's like a robust night on the drinks followed by meeting someone coming the other way who gives you a happy dead arm | 02:01 |
| LjL | (adenovirions?) | 02:01 |
| waitingformagic | and a kebab | 02:01 |
| Win7ine | I never have headaches, but I was up in bed at night aching the size of my small brain reaching down my spine ... apart from muscles all over ... not much temp tho. | 02:03 |
| waitingformagic | OK have you ever done a bottle of scotch in a one-er ? | 02:03 |
| LjL | Win7ine, did you take a paracetamol? it's often suggested, there's no evidence it interacts badly with the vaccine | 02:03 |
| waitingformagic | or been on what we call a Leo-Sayer ? | 02:03 |
| waitingformagic | which is an "ALL DAYER" drinking session ? | 02:04 |
| LjL | (of course i'm not a doctor and if you don't typically take paracetamol you shouldn't just take my word that it's okay to take it) | 02:04 |
| waitingformagic | in London | 02:04 |
| LjL | that sounds like a recipe for a dead liver, waitingformagic | 02:04 |
| LjL | not what i call a good idea | 02:04 |
| waitingformagic | jesus wept lads - most of the worst best things start out as bad ideas | 02:05 |
| waitingformagic | ...stony ground | 02:05 |
| * LjL rolls his eyes | 02:05 | |
| waitingformagic | anyroad | 02:05 |
| Win7ine | Officially it states: replication-deficient chimpanzee adenovirus vector encoding COVID spike glycoprotein. Produced in gentically modified HUMAN embryonic kidney cells. | 02:05 |
| waitingformagic | AZ or whatever vaccine is less than a hangover | 02:06 |
| waitingformagic | Win7ine | 02:06 |
| waitingformagic | ... | 02:06 |
| LjL | side effects are not the same for everyone | 02:06 |
| LjL | i said it before, what's hard to understand about this? | 02:06 |
| waitingformagic | oh right | 02:06 |
| Win7ine | LjL yes, 1gramm of paracetamol on the 3 day to be bale to get to my office ... | 02:07 |
| waitingformagic | not hard | 02:07 |
| de-facto | though those adenovirus vectors are replication deficient in normal human cells, they stole something from it that enabled it to replicate and implanted it into special cell cultures that are only used to grow those adenovirus vectors (with the implanted s-protein recipe) in 2000 liter bottles in factories | 02:07 |
| waitingformagic | pmsl Win7ine is a Dr | 02:07 |
| waitingformagic | :D | 02:07 |
| waitingformagic | omg I love the internet | 02:07 |
| LjL | de-facto, so it's the same virus, but in regular human cell it's unable to replicate, while it can replicate in whatever cell cultures they're using? | 02:08 |
| Win7ine | This is a Chimp adeno | 02:08 |
| LjL | i actually never looked into the details of this | 02:08 |
| de-facto | yep LjL | 02:08 |
| Win7ine | QUestion is wher do they get and how many of the Human ebryonic kidney cells for this purpose? | 02:09 |
| LjL | Win7ine, the reason for that is mainly that, presumably, humans mostly haven't been exposed to it, so we don't have prior immunity, so we won't attack the vector instead of the S-protein... but i think with the unmodified virus, it would probably still replicate | 02:09 |
| LjL | isn't it a decades-old cell lineage? | 02:10 |
| Win7ine | LjL makes only helf sense as the Johnson-Johnson uses human known HNx flu virus vector | 02:11 |
| LjL | Win7ine, well, yes, but each adenovirus vaccine maker has chosen different strategies to deal with this potential issue | 02:11 |
| Win7ine | LjL Johnson appertly only one shot ... | 02:12 |
| LjL | Win7ine, for example Sputnik V uses human adenoviruses, but two different ones (one per shot), so 1) hopefully the second shot will be more effective as you haven't gained immunity to the adenovirus from the first, and 2) if you happen to already have immunity to one of them, at least it's unlikely you'll *also* have it to the other one | 02:12 |
| waitingformagic | Sputnik V is therefore superior | 02:13 |
| LjL | Win7ine, yeah, as far as i can guess, J&J's strategy has been, keep it simple, make a trial with just one shot, and make that the "sales pitch": easier logistically, and more attractive to people who want to go on holidays this summer instead of having to deal with a second shot | 02:13 |
| de-facto | nope Johnson and Johnson (Janssen) uses Adenovirus.26 (a human Adenovirus) as vector | 02:13 |
| LjL | waitingformagic, i would not jump to that conclusion immediately | 02:13 |
| LjL | oh yes it's definitely an adenovirus too | 02:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: Shannon McKearnan: Altimmune Inc: AdCOVID → https://is.gd/bnKPpU | 02:14 |
| de-facto | Sputnik Adenovirus.26 for primer and Adenovirus.5 for booster (both human Adenoviruses) | 02:14 |
| Win7ine | All vector is inferior as the human immune systems need one extra step to learn | 02:14 |
| LjL | one extra step to produce the protein | 02:15 |
| de-facto | all of them as replication-deficient vectors injecting the spike-glycoprotein DNA plasmid into humans cells | 02:15 |
| Win7ine | mRNA is the way forward, also cen easily be reprogrammed for derivates | 02:15 |
| waitingformagic | delivery ? | 02:16 |
| waitingformagic | production and delivery ? | 02:16 |
| de-facto | the translation of DNA into mRNA is not relevant for the immune system it happens inside the cells | 02:16 |
| waitingformagic | sorry went a bit early there | 02:16 |
| waitingformagic | we've got to get this stuff to the whole bloody world for no money | 02:16 |
| Win7ine | LjL that extra step can lead to error and is consuming | 02:17 |
| waitingformagic | It's not going to be the nice one | 02:17 |
| LjL | de-facto, but it does mean that any obstacle in that process will hinder efficacy. so if the immune system attacks the adenovirus, that's an obstacle | 02:17 |
| waitingformagic | its going to be the AK47 | 02:17 |
| de-facto | the stimulation of the immune system may also happen because of the viral vector itself, but the desired provocation happens by exposing the s-protein on the cells surface | 02:17 |
| waitingformagic | stamped metal and just fucking works one | 02:17 |
| waitingformagic | sorry | 02:17 |
| Win7ine | waitingformagic Who is WE? | 02:17 |
| waitingformagic | Humanity | 02:17 |
| waitingformagic | you're a member fuckstick | 02:18 |
| LjL | waitingformagic, what are you on about? | 02:18 |
| LjL | do not call people names please | 02:18 |
| LjL | you're getting a bit annoying in all honesty | 02:18 |
| waitingformagic | apologies | 02:18 |
| waitingformagic | banning people for being annoying ? | 02:19 |
| LjL | uh | 02:19 |
| * Win7ine slaps waitingformagic around a bit with a large trout | 02:19 | |
| LjL | i did not ban you | 02:19 |
| LjL | i see you're kind of anticipating my moves | 02:19 |
| LjL | if your intention is to end up being banned, i'm sure we can arrange that | 02:19 |
| de-facto | LjL, yes of course if immunity against that particular Adenovirus exists prior to it being injected as vector the immune system will just prevent it from infecting enough cells to produce enough s-protein to reach the desired effect, that pre-existing immunity can either be due to already a first dose with the same Adenovirus (AZ) or possibly due to it being a human Adenovirus that was already wide spread before (e.g. like Ad.5 as | 02:19 |
| de-facto | Sputnik booster) | 02:19 |
| waitingformagic | ugh ypu didintn o oo large TROUT in my face | 02:19 |
| LjL | what | 02:19 |
| waitingformagic | I got hit with a large Trout | 02:20 |
| waitingformagic | Win7 | 02:20 |
| LjL | that wasn't me, and also that's obviously not a ban | 02:20 |
| waitingformagic | no it was not a ban | 02:20 |
| waitingformagic | enough of ME | 02:20 |
| waitingformagic | onward | 02:20 |
| LjL | right, onward. don't we all love being bossed around by the random newcomer who's mostly being disruptive. | 02:21 |
| Win7ine | If I am not mistaken, Sputnik-V was ready just after the Chinese last year already? | 02:22 |
| LjL | Win7ine, i'm not sure what you mean by "ready"... they pulled a bit of a publicity stunt in being the "first" to be "ready", but really they weren't demonstrably any more ready than other vaccines, they didn't have an actual authorization yet | 02:22 |
| de-facto | quite an interesting read, here they describe how they developed it for MERS-CoV (basically they just modified it to work against SARS-CoV-2 later by switching the s-protein) | 02:22 |
| de-facto | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X17306564 | 02:22 |
| de-facto | .title | 02:22 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.sciencedirect.com: ChAdOx1 and MVA based vaccine candidates against MERS-CoV elicit neutralising antibodies and cellular immune responses in mice - ScienceDirect | 02:22 |
| LjL | they were registered with Russia's medicine authority, that's all | 02:23 |
| de-facto | note: published 27 June 2017 | 02:23 |
| Win7ine | Yes, had the ipression that they started jabbing the population earlier than the "WEst", obviously the chinese were first inocculating | 02:24 |
| LjL | Win7ine, but then the Chinese don't seem to be doing a tremendous job. they certainly kept the virus at bay better than the west, but their vaccines seem somewhat mediocre so far, and uptake isn't high, although they started early | 02:25 |
| de-facto | the Chinese gained a lot of speed with vaccinations now | 02:25 |
| Win7ine | Where do you get this info from? | 02:25 |
| LjL | Win7ine, the Seychelles is the most vaccinated country in the world, with about 60% of the population vaccinated, mostly with SinoVac (60%) and the rest with AstraZeneca... unfortunately they're just having another big spike that made them lock down again | 02:25 |
| LjL | de-facto, oh yeah? | 02:26 |
| de-facto | 366M doses https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations | 02:26 |
| waitingformagic | the Chinese have a proven track record of social control | 02:26 |
| LjL | Win7ine, the news that a Chinese official actually admitted that their vaccines weren't all that effective made rounds of headlines. then they stated that he had been misinterpreted, but that doesn't surprise me. their vaccines are mostly inactivated virus, and they seem to have an efficacy of little more than 50%, at least iirc in the Brazil trial | 02:27 |
| waitingformagic | western world - civil rights ?! .... pooof gone in China | 02:27 |
| LjL | sometimes it's hard to remember where exactly i got the information, but i try to put the important things in the link that's in the topic | 02:27 |
| de-facto | basically meaning one dose per 4 Chinese people | 02:28 |
| LjL | de-facto, did they just add that "Our work belongs to everyone" box or did i just fail to notice it before? | 02:28 |
| waitingformagic | and all stats coming out of China have been known to be bullshit for ages | 02:28 |
| waitingformagic | Russia too | 02:28 |
| LjL | waitingformagic, sure, in reality the virus is RAVAGING china even though we have footage of cities going on and about with their lives largely unaffected | 02:29 |
| Win7ine | LjL the big spike on the Seychelles is as big as it gets when reading the shoddy news ... I saw that too, only the info ended with the fact that even tho people are positive they are very mildly ill if at all. Same as everywhere else wher the vaccine flattens the re-infection outcome. | 02:29 |
| LjL | enough with this assumption that China isn't doing well but just doctoring the numbers, it's gotten old | 02:29 |
| de-facto | LjL, they advertised downloading the full dataset before too | 02:29 |
| de-facto | i think we even went through it on github | 02:29 |
| waitingformagic | China is - the truth of the deal isn't | 02:30 |
| LjL | Win7ine, well, that's good, but i'd prefer a vaccine that's a bit more effective, also in preventing transmission. i think we agree since you said mRNA is "the way forward" after all | 02:30 |
| LjL | de-facto, i might just be blind sometimes | 02:30 |
| de-facto | its a huge dataset though, not loadable in to libre office or such | 02:30 |
| de-facto | needs extraction first | 02:31 |
| Win7ine | No vaccine will prevent transmission of a new varaiant that will trick | 02:31 |
| waitingformagic | so you chat her forever ? | 02:31 |
| LjL | Win7ine, a new variant is another pair of shoes, but i think the surge in the Seychells is not (known to be) due to a variant | 02:31 |
| LjL | waitingformagic, what's YOUR point in asking a question such as that? | 02:31 |
| waitingformagic | forever-war | 02:31 |
| Win7ine | ONly a new Vaccine quickly deployed agains the new varaiant will help, mRNA is capable of this | 02:31 |
| LjL | it's an IRC channel, yes, of course we chat here | 02:31 |
| waitingformagic | the question whilst odd is this | 02:32 |
| waitingformagic | at what point will you all stop talking about THIS | 02:32 |
| Win7ine | LjL of course it is a new variant on the Seyshelles | 02:32 |
| waitingformagic | I'd tether my government to that point | 02:32 |
| de-facto | when it became irrelevant, unfortunately not the case yet | 02:32 |
| LjL | Win7ine, i am disappointed to hear that Pfizer thinks they don't need a new booster for the variants. it's true that a study came out with their vaccine seemingly retaining 75% efficacy against B.1.351 (SA variant), but... i think they should be proactive here. are they only going to develop a "variant vaccine" once the variants are just uncontrollable with the original vaccine? Moderna is creating a booster on the other hand | 02:33 |
| LjL | waitingformagic, "this" being COVID? | 02:33 |
| LjL | this channel is about COVID, we won't stop talking about COVID | 02:33 |
| waitingformagic | when it becomes irrelevant | 02:33 |
| LjL | which will never happen | 02:33 |
| waitingformagic | ha | 02:34 |
| waitingformagic | forever war | 02:34 |
| LjL | we'll have to coexist with COVID. hopefully it won't be as bad as this, but it's not going away | 02:34 |
| LjL | most scientists agree it's going to be endemic for a long long time | 02:34 |
| waitingformagic | jesus wept | 02:34 |
| Win7ine | LjL Pfizer produce, they want to sell what tyhey can do now in mass production, they are not interested in spending money to alter theri production line hence the blabla, BionTech are the innovators and they will output directly | 02:34 |
| LjL | sometimes pandora's jar can't just be closed back again, y'know | 02:35 |
| waitingformagic | good luck | 02:35 |
| yuta | Is there ivermectin fan? | 02:35 |
| LjL | well that's a relief | 02:35 |
| de-facto | my hope would be that humanity does not waste all of the opportunities and time windows available to get rid of the COVID pandemic, hence maybe it will be irrelevant at some point in the future, yet so far it always tends to go worse than my expectations and i am not exactly an optimist with this | 02:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +16861 cases (now 5.9 million) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +4271 cases (now 1.6 million), +9 deaths (now 17551) since 21 hours ago — United Kingdom: +1763 cases (now 4.5 million), +11 deaths (now 127790) since 21 hours ago — Germany: +6512 cases (now 3.6 million) since 21 hours ago | 02:36 |
| LjL | Win7ine, yes, they want to make money, i wonder if BioNTech will be able to push them to... still make money, but with the best possible vaccine | 02:36 |
| LjL | or if they can be nudged by governments, or someone | 02:36 |
| LjL | i just don't think continuing with the current production without modification is going to be good in the long run | 02:36 |
| LjL | except for Pfizer's stocks, maybe | 02:36 |
| de-facto | tbh i think its also about marketing, just imagine, Apple announcing the new Iphone and its cool new features half a year before it comes to market, how would that impact their sales of current Iphones? | 02:37 |
| de-facto | doesnt that even have a name? i dont remember it | 02:38 |
| Win7ine | LjL BionTech are also setting up manufacturing in Singapore | 02:38 |
| de-facto | that effect i mean | 02:38 |
| de-facto | "Osborne effect" | 02:40 |
| de-facto | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect | 02:40 |
| Win7ine | Also their native Marburg site has been expanded to be able to output 750Million doses per year | 02:40 |
| LjL | de-facto, i never remember these names. yeah... i guess... i don't know, it depends on how the contracts are written also | 02:45 |
| de-facto | yeah indeed | 02:45 |
| de-facto | afaik EU bought 900M doses from them but probably against future variants | 02:45 |
| Win7ine | So with these developments around the true innovators (BionTech) Pfizer is merely holding on to what they are making right now and pushing more of it wether still efficient or not ... | 02:49 |
| LjL | de-facto, i *really hope* the put a clause about variants in that gigantic 900+900m doses contract | 02:50 |
| LjL | maybe at some point we'll know from whoever likes to leak things :P | 02:50 |
| Win7ine | Same goes for all the others ... It is all about the profit. Not humans. | 02:50 |
| de-facto | LjL, i do think so as it was the whole purpose of that contract to allocate doses for future VoCs in advance | 02:51 |
| LjL | i don't know de-facto, i'll believe it when i see the contract, i've witnessed more than enough politicians making stupid choices and bad contracts already to blindly believe in them now | 02:53 |
| de-facto | Pfizer rised the costs from 12€ to 19.50€ per dose though | 02:53 |
| LjL | oh well | 02:54 |
| LjL | that's still less than €150 | 02:55 |
| de-facto | at least its good to make the impression of that in advance | 02:55 |
| LjL | de-facto, have you noticed the part of Johnson's announcement where they're changing the second dose schedule from 12 weeks to 8 weeks? | 02:58 |
| LjL | that's sort of interesting | 02:58 |
| LjL | in theory, for AZ, 12 weeks was supposed to be "optimal" | 02:58 |
| de-facto | so thats 17.5B€ contract, peanuts? | 02:58 |
| LjL | but then i think they were using 12 weeks also for Pfizer | 02:58 |
| [Kraken | johnsons has a 2nd dose? | 02:59 |
| de-facto | huh? Janssen always was 1 dose afaik and AZ 2 dose, UK saying they want to sooner reach fully vaccinated for more people because of better protection against variants | 02:59 |
| LjL | [Kraken, no? | 02:59 |
| LjL | did i say Johnson instead of Pfizer or something? | 03:00 |
| [Kraken | :) | 03:00 |
| * de-facto opens his third beer :D | 03:00 | |
| Win7ine | LjL Johnson is a ONE JAB vaccine, there is not second | 03:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Fr. Polynesia: +18 cases (now 18815) since 3 days ago | 03:01 |
| de-facto | oh lol Boris Johnson | 03:01 |
| LjL | Win7ine, i know... | 03:01 |
| LjL | i'm not the one saying it isn't | 03:01 |
| de-facto | yes LOL im am drunk LOL | 03:01 |
| LjL | oooooh | 03:02 |
| LjL | yes Boris Johnson | 03:02 |
| de-facto | Boris Johnson, Johnson and Johnson with Janssen and all those "J"s got me confused | 03:02 |
| LjL | :D | 03:02 |
| Win7ine | Boris, 12->8 weeks, yes ecause of the new India variant | 03:02 |
| LjL | let's have a laugh | 03:02 |
| de-facto | :P | 03:02 |
| Win7ine | Haha | 03:02 |
| Win7ine | ha | 03:03 |
| LjL | Win7ine, supposedly so, but it's an... interesting choice. i guess (although he didn't say it) that it will mean people under 40, who are not yet eligible, will take longer to be vaccinated. it would also mean that they *don't* expect just one dose to be effective against the Indian variant...? | 03:03 |
| Win7ine | No single does is as effective as a double | 03:04 |
| de-facto | yes but Boris the J said it was due to reaching fully vaccination status earlier for those potentially vulnerable hence the elderly with only one dose, to give them better protection against VoCs | 03:04 |
| Win7ine | for any variant | 03:04 |
| LjL | Win7ine, sure, but "for any variant" is the key here... if they thought 12 weeks was fine *before* this variant, then what changed? | 03:04 |
| LjL | de-facto, but those are people who already had one dose and so, were unlikely to get severely sick anyway (from what we know). but the younger people are not protected at all yet | 03:05 |
| de-facto | us talking about alcohol is unhealthy got me realizing i did not drink it since... new years, hence i bought beer today :D | 03:05 |
| Win7ine | 12 weeks wa not fine, it was omnly because of limited supply, in fact 4 weeks is ideal | 03:05 |
| LjL | i'm not saying it's a wrong decision, just that it's an interesting small change of course | 03:05 |
| de-facto | LjL, yeah i am just repeating what he said in the speech you linked above | 03:06 |
| LjL | Win7ine, well, 4 weeks is more or less ideal with Pfizer, but AZ actually contended that the 12 week schedule is probably better (it's hard to tell from their largely botched trial, but it's possible) | 03:06 |
| Win7ine | All trials used 4 weeks booster, only when supply issues and larger numbers started to play a role did they tweak what is good. | 03:06 |
| LjL | Win7ine, also you might enjoy this italian "study" that was posted here before you joined (i scarequote it because we have the article, but didn't find the actual study yet) https://www.italy24news.com/covid-19/52534.html | 03:07 |
| LjL | Win7ine, no, with AZ there was an additional complication | 03:07 |
| Win7ine | Such as? | 03:07 |
| LjL | Win7ine, initially the Oxford trial gave people half the amount of vaccine than they later settled on. they realized that there didn't seem to be enough reactogenicity with that small dose, so they double it in the next participants. but at the same time, they weren't sure what to do with the participants who had gotten the half dose, so their second dose was delayed. later, surprisingly, it turned out that the half-dose arm actually seemed to have 90% | 03:09 |
| LjL | protection, as opposed to 60% or so for the other arm. initially they said it was probably because of the smaller dose (bit of a paradox effect, but maybe due to the immune system's reaction to excess adenovirus), but later they said it was probably because those same people had waited longer to get their second dose (also theoretically plausible: if you wait until the antibodies *to the adenovirus* are less present, the booster might work better) | 03:09 |
| LjL | de-facto can confirm if i remember the story right, i think | 03:10 |
| Win7ine | LjL that contradicts intial sudies where Astra is less effective ... All greed. | 03:10 |
| LjL | Win7ine, i'm not saying i completely buy into this interpretation, i'm just saying it's what AZ eventually claimed as their interpretation of the study results | 03:11 |
| LjL | in fact if we're talking *personally*, i'm qute fed up with AZ's shenanigans, and at this point i'm happy the EU is just going with Pfizer | 03:11 |
| Win7ine | Time will tell | 03:11 |
| LjL | ... i mean BNT :P | 03:12 |
| de-facto | i thought it was like they indended full dose -> full dose but messed up the production for one part of the trial (was it UK?) and ended up with half-dose -> full-dose then later realizing that it was more efficacious in that arm | 03:12 |
| [Kraken | does brainstorm go idle, when folks chat in here? | 03:12 |
| Win7ine | FAct is that the BionTech/Pfizer shot is triple the price of the Oxford/AstraZ | 03:12 |
| * de-facto pets Brainstorm | 03:13 | |
| * Brainstorm starts to coruscate de-facto with some pacific instrumentality | 03:13 | |
| Win7ine | and is not easily handled becaiuse of refrigeration need | 03:13 |
| de-facto | only on the long term | 03:13 |
| * Birrosso stabs Brainstorm. | 03:14 | |
| de-facto | do it without the dot | 03:14 |
| Birrosso | W-Why is it ignoring me? Is it the dot? | 03:14 |
| * Birrosso stabs Brainstorm | 03:14 | |
| * Brainstorm starts to reject Birrosso with some moneyless spite | 03:14 | |
| Birrosso | Seriously? | 03:14 |
| * Birrosso sighs. | 03:14 | |
| de-facto | BNT can be handled at fridge temps, was it for 5 days or such after it was taken out of deep freezer? | 03:15 |
| de-facto | and afaik CureVac will be able to last like 3 months at normal fridge temps, hence its possible to do such things with mRNA | 03:15 |
| LjL | [Kraken, no, Brainstorm just keeps doing its thng | 03:15 |
| LjL | you just notice it more when folks aren't talking i suspect :P | 03:15 |
| LjL | Win7ine, CureVac is promising to be usable at fridge temperatures. Pfizer already went from -80°C to finding out that -20°C is acceptable. so this aspect might get better with mRNA vaccines over time. | 03:16 |
| LjL | AZ is cheaper, for sure | 03:17 |
| LjL | i know this reeks a bit of "third-world-tier-vaccines", but i think given the horrific situation in India right now, we (as in the EU) should just give our AZ doses to India, and use Pfizer which we have better means to handle (India may have trouble keeping -80°C in some remote village!) | 03:17 |
| LjL | and Pfizer/BNT is coming in reasonably large amounts for us now | 03:18 |
| de-facto | interesting, people under the age of 40 will get mRNA in UK too they just said | 03:18 |
| Win7ine | LjL exaclty, India manufactures the bulk of Az, cheaply, let the have it for their own | 03:18 |
| de-facto | (i am still trying to finish watching the Boris announcement you linked earlier) | 03:19 |
| [Kraken | de-facto: that must be painful | 03:20 |
| de-facto | lol yeah i am trying hard | 03:20 |
| LjL | Win7ine, well, they're definitely keeping the portion they manufacture themselves at this time | 03:21 |
| LjL | but i say let's give them our stock too | 03:22 |
| LjL | based on a recent report, it looks like in Gujarat they may have 15x as many deaths as officially reported | 03:22 |
| de-facto | isnt that what USA is trying to do? | 03:22 |
| LjL | which does not surprise me because the official numbers are small (relative to the population), but people who live there tell a different story | 03:22 |
| LjL | de-facto, i don't know | 03:22 |
| LjL | they've barely been convinced to take their hands off those unused AZ doses! i don't know who they're going to give them to | 03:23 |
| LjL | i'd heard mainly Mexico and Canada | 03:23 |
| LjL | but i'm not really sure | 03:23 |
| de-facto | hmm yeah that also could make sense | 03:23 |
| LjL | de-facto, the announcement that <40 people will get mRNA is older, though | 03:23 |
| LjL | i hope that won't make it longer for them to get their vaccine | 03:24 |
| de-facto | afaik EU also begins to give doses to the eastern countries such as Ukraine etc | 03:24 |
| LjL | i have a friend there who's under 40 and he doesn't work remotely (as in, he works in presence) so i hope he can get vaccinated soon, especially now with this variant | 03:24 |
| de-facto | i think i read a headline about Lithuania contributing doses to them from brainstorm a few days ago | 03:24 |
| Win7ine | Sadly if one watches social/religious events @ganges river etc it is obvious that the rage is hard | 03:24 |
| LjL | Win7ine, but also political rallies. Modi is a <censored> | 03:24 |
| Birrosso | No one here is discouraging using AZ, just warning that you could die of deep vein thrombosis... or something like that. | 03:24 |
| LjL | Win7ine, but at the same time, the spike in India pre-dates those religious events. they'll certainly not make things better, but i don't think they are "the" origin of the spike | 03:25 |
| LjL | Birrosso, lol, i like the way you put it | 03:25 |
| Birrosso | The details are a bit hazy. | 03:25 |
| Win7ine | Birrosso DVT by AZ is documented deeply but can occur with others just the same | 03:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Panama: +588 cases (now 370043), +4 deaths (now 6292) since a day ago | 03:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Saint Lucia: +63 cases (now 4788) since a day ago | 04:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Egypt: +1197 cases (now 243317), +56 deaths (now 14206) since a day ago — Germany: +8553 cases (now 3.6 million) since 22 hours ago — France: +13753 cases (now 5.9 million) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +4139 cases (now 1.6 million), +8 deaths (now 17554) since 21 hours ago | 04:40 |
| de-facto | long covid ~ 10% of cases according to Lothar Wieler from RKI | 04:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sao Tome and Principe: +4 cases (now 2324) since 3 days ago | 05:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Taiwan raises COVID-19 alert level, reports 180 new cases → https://is.gd/NUyCNB | 05:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from EurekAlert!: (news): Rutgers reports first instance of COVID-19 triggering recurrent blood clots in arms → https://is.gd/GcgNpn | 06:29 |
| CoronaBot | /r/coronavirus: Kroger Reveals That It Paid CEO $22.4 Million Shortly After He Cut Workers’ COVID-19 Hazard Pay (10324 votes) | https://labor411.org/411-blog/kroger-reveals-that-it-paid-ceo-22-4-million-shortly-after-he-cut-workers-hazard-pay/ | https://redd.it/ncjvac | 06:43 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +1631 cases (now 1.0 million), +19 deaths (now 24664) since a day ago | 07:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Rio Grande do Norte, Brazil: +11768 cases (now 1.3 million), +122 deaths (now 32335) since a day ago — Parana, Brazil: +9338 cases (now 1.0 million), +145 deaths (now 24330) since a day ago — Alabama, United States: +4918 cases (now 537813), +23 deaths (now 11024) since a day ago — Moscow, Russia: +3818 cases (now 1.1 million), +60 deaths (now 19128) since a day ago | 07:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +326098 cases (now 24.4 million), +3923 deaths (now 264918) since 23 hours ago | 08:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | May 15, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/AQYOQD | 09:09 |
| liptoner[m] | Any reason someone under 60 should get the jab if they are not vulnerable? | 10:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: China cancels Mt Everest climbs over fears of Covid-19 from Nepal → https://is.gd/vevFd1 | 10:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Taiwan: +185 cases (now 1475) since a day ago | 10:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: Get the jab plea as Army deployed in hotspots: Eligible people in areas where the Indian virus variant is circulating are urged to get vaccinated. → https://is.gd/gxlM53 | 10:13 |
| finely[m] | <Win7ine "@LjL how do you think any of the"> If it was made available patent free all the biotech manufacturing capability that is being utilised could be making vaccines. There is a single company in Bangladesh that could be making 600 000+ doses a year right now. It isn't because of patent law. There are other companies wanting to make vaccines that can't yet. Let's say that's a conservative estimate if 1 billion doses | 10:32 |
| finely[m] | of vaccine a year that we are not making, but could. | 10:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Tamil Nadu, India: +31892 cases (now 1.5 million), +288 deaths (now 17056) since a day ago — West Bengal, India: +20846 cases (now 1.1 million), +136 deaths (now 12993) since a day ago — Odisha, India: +12390 cases (now 588687), +22 deaths (now 2273) since a day ago — Manipur, India: +726 cases (now 38322), +16 deaths (now 552) since a day ago | 10:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Novavax offers 89.7% protection against B.1.1.7 strain; with 100% protection against severe cases → https://is.gd/MYoSGL | 10:55 |
| finely[m] | <liptoner[m] "Any reason someone under 60 shou"> Everyone is vulnerable. We don't have a way to predict which young, healthy person will die of COVID and which person will be fine. And long COVID is no joke. Potentially life altering disability for the rest of your life. And you may be OK, but you pass the infection onto someone you love and kill them (possibly without ever getting symptoms yourself). | 10:58 |
| finely[m] | If its the Astra Zenaca one though, there us a small chance of getting potentially fatal blood clots. Even then, for most people (especially older people) the risk of dying from COVID is higher. The other vaccines are safe from serious side effects. | 11:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bolivia: +2509 cases (now 329733), +42 deaths (now 13451) since 14 hours ago | 11:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Did the coronavirus escape from a lab? The idea deserves a second look, scientists say: Eighteen scientists from some of the world's most prestigious research institutions are urging their colleagues to dig deeper into the origins of the coronavirus responsible for the global pandemic. → https://is.gd/xRvoA7 | 11:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Borders: UK to stop detaining people without work visas in removal centers during pandemic → https://is.gd/Z2QYSy | 11:38 |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: Prospective Case-Control Study of Cardiovascular Abnormalities 6 Months Following Mild COVID-19 in Healthcare Workers (80 votes) | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1936878X21003569 | https://redd.it/ncdq8q | 11:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: UK eager for a big reopening thanks to vaccine success → https://is.gd/BLgrTj | 11:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA SALUTE - ORDINANZA 14 maggio 2021: Ulteriori misure urgenti in materia di contenimento e gestionedell'emergenza epidemiologica da COVID-19 nelle Regioni Sardegna eSicilia. (21A03052) → https://is.gd/vnF517 | 12:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Mysterious New ‘News’ Sites Can’t Stop Praising Modi Amid COVID Crisis → https://is.gd/8RAA12 | 13:15 |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: Efficacy of the NVX-CoV2373 Covid-19 Vaccine Against the B.1.1.7 Variant (81 votes) | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.13.21256639v1 | https://redd.it/ncs69p | 14:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +261 cases (now 779796), +22 deaths (now 12124) since a day ago | 14:36 |
| ketas | my age group can get shot now | 15:05 |
| de-facto | what age is that? | 15:06 |
| ketas | 37 | 15:06 |
| de-facto | %ifr 37 | 15:06 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, for every 2144 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 15:06 |
| ketas | %ifr 120 | 15:06 |
| Brainstorm | ketas, for every 0 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 15:06 |
| ketas | %ifr 100 | 15:07 |
| Brainstorm | ketas, for every 1 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 15:07 |
| de-facto | mostly accurate for ranges where the majority of such data exists, hence probably like 50-90 or such | 15:08 |
| de-facto | my dad for example | 15:08 |
| de-facto | %ifr 72 | 15:08 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, for every 31 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 15:08 |
| ketas | %ifr 76 | 15:08 |
| Brainstorm | ketas, for every 19 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 15:08 |
| ketas | my mother | 15:09 |
| ketas | who has received first dose of biontech now | 15:09 |
| de-facto | yeah at that age the benefit from vaccination is enormous | 15:09 |
| de-facto | my parents too, 1st dose of BNT, i am very happy about that | 15:09 |
| de-facto | me, i dont have any yet | 15:09 |
| de-facto | %ifr 39 | 15:10 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, for every 1684 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 15:10 |
| ketas | %ifr 13 | 15:10 |
| Brainstorm | ketas, for every 38797 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 15:10 |
| ketas | %ifr 1 | 15:10 |
| Brainstorm | ketas, for every 165044 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 15:10 |
| ketas | %ifr 0 | 15:10 |
| Brainstorm | ketas, for every 186209 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 15:10 |
| de-facto | yeah but for such young it also becomes less accurate, not enough data for that age | 15:10 |
| ketas | hmm | 15:10 |
| ketas | %ifr -1 | 15:11 |
| Brainstorm | ketas, for every 210088 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 15:11 |
| ketas | :P | 15:11 |
| de-facto | haha :D | 15:11 |
| ketas | how come | 15:11 |
| ketas | %ifr -999999999 | 15:11 |
| Brainstorm | ZeroDivisionError: float division by zero (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 484, in ifr) | 15:11 |
| ketas | ops | 15:11 |
| ketas | where did the /0 come from | 15:12 |
| ketas | :) | 15:12 |
| de-facto | its an exponential interpolating the data that mostly was collected where the majority of fatal outcomes happened, hence in the elderly: 186209÷(2^(age÷5,75)) doubling with each increase of age by 5.75 years | 15:14 |
| ketas | sadly many people have divided by zero due covid | 15:14 |
| de-facto | yeah its probabilities of course one never knows before | 15:15 |
| de-facto | interpolation comes from metastudy (summarizing other studies about IFR) | 15:18 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.springermedizin.de/covid-19/assessing-the-age-specificity-of-infection-fatality-rates-for-co/18667556?fulltextView=true | 15:18 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.springermedizin.de: Springer Medizin – Mein Arztwissen | springermedizin.de | 15:18 |
| de-facto | actually it seems they use data from 5 to 95 years | 15:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pfizer makes billions from COVID-19 vaccines, payed for with tax money. But the company has a different attitude when it comes to their own taxes: Pfizer tries to avoid taxes worldwide, through the Netherlands. → https://is.gd/Jr6rFj | 15:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 755: COVID-19 clinical update #62 with Dr. Daniel Griffin: In COVID-19 clinical update #62, Daniel Griffin covers outdoor transmission of the virus, safe use of NSAIDS, expansion of Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine to include 12-15 year olds, post-disease Mucormycosis, and hydroxychloroquine treatment associated with [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/a12UML | 15:56 |
| chile09[m] | Where are the GoF articles? | 15:57 |
| de-facto | GoF? | 15:59 |
| dTal | Game of Frones | 15:59 |
| de-facto | Gain of Function? | 15:59 |
| de-facto | SARS-CoV-2 gains its function itself, the variants become more infectious and gain some evasive capabilities in partly immune populations, all as result of the natural selection for randomly occurring mutations | 16:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +8046 cases (now 447704), +187 deaths (now 4856) since 23 hours ago | 16:04 |
| de-facto | .title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variant_of_concern | 16:04 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Variant of concern - Wikipedia | 16:04 |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: Serbia begins paying citizens to receive Covid19 vaccine. (81 votes) | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01097-7/fulltext?utm_campaign=WR&utm_content=166756176&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-27013292 | https://redd.it/nctpab | 16:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +89 deaths (now 85999) since 23 hours ago | 16:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +35 deaths (now 24863) since 23 hours ago | 17:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Saturday 15 May 2021 Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://is.gd/HTIF5N | 17:33 |
| finely[m] | They are going all out now. Trying lots of lies hoping one of them will stick. | 17:48 |
| finely[m] | https://theintercept.com/2021/05/14/covid-vaccine-waiver-generic-phrma-lobby/ | 17:48 |
| rpifan | im not surprised | 17:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +6652 cases (now 4.2 million), +136 deaths (now 124063) since 22 hours ago | 18:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Mysterious New ‘News’ Sites Can’t Stop Praising Modi Amid COVID Crisis. Modi officials are sharing articles from a site that tweets in all caps, and has a name that is eerily similar to the UK newspaper. → https://is.gd/Rk4JbF | 18:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US warns extremists may strike as COVID-19 restrictions ease → https://is.gd/hpX36X | 19:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sri Lanka: +3616 cases (now 140471) since 23 hours ago — Cuba: +1383 cases (now 123221), +11 deaths (now 796) since 22 hours ago | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Vietnam: +131 cases (now 3985) since 10 hours ago | 20:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +74 deaths (now 107503) since 19 hours ago | 21:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for N. Mariana Is.: +2 cases (now 172) since 5 days ago | 22:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Pfizer and Moderna jabs may help guard against next coronavirus pandemic → https://is.gd/jWJnNQ | 22:41 |
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