libera/##covid-19/ Sunday, 2021-05-16

BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +5802 cases (now 3.6 million), +104 deaths (now 86061) since 23 hours ago00:08
LjLNow a few Italian regions are sending AZ doses to other regions (namely to us) because people are just not accepting them00:09
LjLI'm honestly not so sure I should accept it either00:10
dTalI'll have yours00:28
gigasu_shidacan mRNA vaccines be designed to manufacture various fragments of the virus at once?00:34
yutagigasu_shida, nou00:39
gigasu_shidawhy not?00:39
yutagigasu_shida, I don't know.00:40
de-factowhy could not every protein for which the recipe can be encoded in mRNA be a part of a mix?00:43
de-factoi mean viruses themselves also can encode several proteins in one strain of mRNA, they have different strategies for separating them later but it obviously is possible00:46
yutaIn the case of the Indian variant of the virus, there is a triple mutation.00:46
de-factohttps://imgur.com/a/AtgaZKQ https://i.imgur.com/7GVCuFj.png source: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Emergence-of-SARS-CoV-2-B.1.617-variants-in-India-and-situation-in-the-EUEEA.pdf00:49
de-factonot sure what triple mutation means, are those the three sublineages of B.1.617 ?00:50
de-factofor those the B.1.617.2 seems to dominate in many places for some reason00:50
de-factohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineage_B.1.61700:51
yutaI was told that there are mutations in three genes.00:51
LjLyuta, it's a bit of a media thing. there are mutations in many more than three genes. there are three mutations considered "potentially important"00:52
yutaLjL, Thanks. I got it. :)00:53
de-factoi wonder which the third mutation would be00:54
de-factoPoint mutations L452R and E484Q are the "double mutant" as media calls it i guess00:55
de-factobut whats the triple mutant?00:55
LjLde-facto, they do not refer to the .1 .2 .3, they started talking about the "double mutant" and then one of them was a "triple mutant", not really sure which one00:55
LjLand not sure what the mutation is either00:55
LjLin other variants these terms "x-fold mutants" haven't been used, so i didn't pay much attention to t00:55
de-factowould be interesting because it might mean they ascribe some special relevance to that third point mutation then00:56
LjL%s triple mutant l452r e484q00:56
BrainstormLjL, 3760.0 hits: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.22.440932v1 (Convergent evolution of SARS-CoV-2 spike mutations, L452R ...) — https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.22.440932v1.full.pdf (Convergent evolution of SARS-CoV-2 spike ... - bioRxiv) [... want %more?]00:56
LjLBrainstorm, now you give a decimal number of hits?00:56
LjL%more00:56
BrainstormLjL, [...] https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210427/Triple-mutation-in-SARS-CoV-2-seen-in-second-wave-of-COVID-19-in-India.aspx (Triple mutation in SARS-CoV-2 seen in second wave of ...) — https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/92345 (India's COVID-19 Variant: What We Know So Far | MedPage ...) [...] → https://paste.ee/p/oc04g00:56
BrainstormLjL, [...] increased mortality. → https://paste.ee/p/28jSG00:56
de-factomaybe L452R, E484Q and P681R ?00:57
LjL"The combination of all the three mutations reported here, L452R, E484Q, and P681R, suggests the virus is evolving similar traits independently, continually adapting to its human hosts."00:58
LjLtoday i hadn't looked at the computer (including most of this channel) yet, and just when i was going to, i unplugged it, and for some reason it went "click" and turned itself off :|01:00
LjLdTal, and you should, especially if anywhere near Manchester. but i'd rather we kept Brits from flying here for a while longer and gave everyone Pfizer ;(01:01
de-factohttps://covariants.org/variants/S.L452R https://covariants.org/variants/S.E484 https://covariants.org/variants/S.P68101:02
de-factohttps://covariants.org/variants/20A.S.478K01:03
de-factoafaik only B.1.617.2 was declared a VoC01:21
LjLde-facto, well do the others have any real presence in the UK?01:22
de-factoyou mean founders effect?01:30
de-factocould that also partly explain their competition in the Indian population?01:30
de-factoexample: if it would have been B.1.617.2 that was spread in mass gatherings it would be that one that was seeded everywhere by returning carriers01:32
de-factoyet fit enough to dominate the other variants further and further01:33
de-factoB.1.617.3 never really took off in the ECDC diagram for India, and B.1.617.1 staturated and then declined with B.1.617.3 rise01:34
de-factowithout geolocated sequences its hard to tell what happened, maybe it ran into a lockdown with a city?01:35
de-factobut if course also the properties that those variants got from their spectrum of mutations could be (partly?) responsible for those01:37
BrainstormNew from Virology.ws: Trial By Error: Journal Editorial Calls for Caution in Exercise-Based Rehab Programs for Long COVID: By David Tuller, DrPH The Journal of Orthopaedic & Sports Physical Therapy recently published an editorial called  “Humility and Acceptance: Working Within Our Limits With Long COVID and Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/ Chronic [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/EG7Dza01:40
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Recognizing the Clinical Sequelae of COVID-19 in Adults: COVID-19 Long-Haulers (80 votes) | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8103144/?fbclid=IwAR3KOlTMtylv-W7U-mjX_3TjMoK-9wexBCtlD2CyjZ-zOokxK-PvrzjXbe4 | https://redd.it/ncw5sk01:56
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Ivermectin in combination with doxycycline for treating COVID-19 symptoms: a randomized trial (81 votes) | https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/03000605211013550 | https://redd.it/ncwjld02:08
LjLde-facto, i don't really mean anything, i'm not sure anyone is very clear on the indian variants yet02:15
de-factoyeah we need more data02:31
pwr22Indeed02:35
pwr22I had some drama here last night - had to call the police02:35
pwr22Not really covid related but I had four people outside my door acting suspiciously and in violation of social distancing02:36
LjLi could see people violating the curfew in the square down below, but, it's italy, who's calling anyone? the police would laugh at me ;(02:37
BrainstormUpdates for France: +5686 cases (now 5.9 million) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +2498 cases (now 1.6 million), +6 deaths (now 17560) since 21 hours ago — United Kingdom: +1565 cases (now 4.5 million), +8 deaths (now 127803) since 21 hours ago02:37
LjLpwr22, did the police come?02:39
de-factohere when we had curfew police would drive around the whole night and catch violators (and give them sanctions i guess)02:46
CoronaBot/r/coronavirus: 'What if it was your kid?': Parents of young children feel forgotten as CDC loosens mask restrictions (10053 votes) | https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/05/14/covid-19-cdc-mask-guidance-parents-young-children-coronavirus/5093405001/ | https://redd.it/ncvpro02:50
LjLde-facto, here is italy, police are probably curfew violators too :(03:27
de-factoin my city they are very friendly but strict03:40
de-factofor example they even controlled places where people could gather or go for a walk in groups and ensure they would strictly stick to the rules, but only with friendly talking to them03:42
de-factoi think for the curfew violators they might be more strict, at least i have seen them writing things down, hence i assume they got fined03:42
dTalthat sounds nice03:42
BrainstormUpdates for British Virgin Islands: +29 cases (now 248) since 5 days ago04:04
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Impact of COVID-19 vaccination on the risk of infection with SARS-CoV-2 and subsequent hospitalization and death in Italy (27.12.2020 - 03.05.2021) (84 votes) | https://www.epicentro.iss.it/vaccini/pdf/report-valutazione-impatto-vaccinazione-covid-19-15-mag-2021.pdf | https://redd.it/nda2yu04:15
BrainstormUpdates for Egypt: +1203 cases (now 244520), +63 deaths (now 14269) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +2565 cases (now 1.3 million) since 20 hours ago04:29
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid-19: No 10 defends India travel ban timing amid variant fears: As surge testing for the Indian Covid variant continues, the government rejects claims it was slow to act. → https://is.gd/h5hdeF05:21
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Vaccinated adults, unvaccinated kids — navigating the “new normal (82 votes) | https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2021/04/vaccinated-adults-unvaccinated-kids | https://redd.it/ndc2jh05:33
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Why get the COVID-19 vaccine? A doc explains the benefits → https://is.gd/zCLCqA05:42
BrainstormNew from This Week In Virology: TWiV 756: Precluding problematic polio prophylaxis: TWiV returns to the 2012 brouhaha over transmission experiments with avian H5N1 influenza virus, re-examines the claim of SARS-CoV-2 RNA integration into human DNA, and reviews the engineering and testing of a genetically stable version of the attenuated type 2 Sabin [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8ko30306:15
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +1967 cases (now 1.0 million), +22 deaths (now 24686) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +86 deaths (now 86083) since 22 hours ago06:34
[krakenhttps://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s06:38
BrainstormUpdates for South Carolina, United States: +1525 cases (now 588110), +11 deaths (now 9638) since a day ago — Bolivar, Colombia: +1071 cases (now 90980), +17 deaths (now 1750) since a day ago — Magdalena, Colombia: +816 cases (now 65166), +8 deaths (now 2463) since a day ago — Saint Petersburg, Russia: +749 cases (now 426615), +34 deaths (now 13726) since a day ago07:36
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Taiwan urges no panic buying as new COVID-19 rules kick off → https://is.gd/aTcsh207:49
pwr22<LjL "Peter, did the police come?"> Yeah they did, though not from my call but from the call made by the suspicious  people whilst outside my flat 😀08:37
pwr22They arrested two other people08:38
BrainstormUpdates for India: +311170 cases (now 24.7 million), +3766 deaths (now 268937) since 15 hours ago08:38
BrainstormUpdates for Taiwan: +207 cases (now 1682) since 22 hours ago09:03
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | May 16, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/mWKXmN09:05
BrainstormUpdates for Tamil Nadu, India: +33658 cases (now 1.6 million), +303 deaths (now 17359) since 23 hours ago — Tripura, India: +761 cases (now 40816), +2 deaths (now 431) since 23 hours ago — Manipur, India: +730 cases (now 39052), +10 deaths (now 562) since 23 hours ago — Meghalaya, India: +560 cases (now 22763), +21 deaths (now 301) since 23 hours ago10:30
kevin-oculusshould longcovid patients take vaccine11:05
ComirnatyNeritAsk your doctor, but from what I've heard, yes they should.  It might reportedly even help with the symptoms.11:06
ComirnatyNeritBut you should ask your doctor and not strangers on IRC.11:06
kevin-oculus:(11:08
finely[m]<kevin-oculus "should longcovid patients take v"> It is currently thought the immunity you get from a vaccine a better (stronger and long lasting) than the immunity from a previous infection. So the vaccine may prevent you from contracting one of the new variants.11:10
kevin-oculusfinely[m] thanx i got it now \o/11:27
BrainstormUpdates for Japan: +6147 cases (now 677988), +98 deaths (now 11463) since 21 hours ago — Uganda: +105 cases (now 42779) since a day ago11:32
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Covid: A tenth of Britain's restaurants lost during pandemic → https://is.gd/ZBM3Nn11:45
BrainstormNew from Virological.org: Latest posts: @paola Paola Resende: Identification of SARS-CoV-2 P.1-related lineages in Brazil provides new insights about the mechanisms of emergence of Variants of Concern → https://is.gd/hrHjax12:27
guriyahi covid patients and warriors12:36
guriyaseriously what a disaster we got12:37
vaiowell, see it the positive way: it didn't turn us as zombies12:42
vaiothat's still something... :/12:43
voltage_it turned us into fascists12:55
finely[m]<kevin-oculus "finely thanx i got it now \o/"> Hope the vaccine helps you.13:07
BrainstormNew from StatNews: First Opinion: Opinion: My Covid scars need time to heal. Going maskless and getting back to ‘normal’ will take me a while → https://is.gd/80D4oC13:11
BrainstormUpdates for Bangladesh: +363 cases (now 780159), +25 deaths (now 12149) since 22 hours ago13:11
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid: Hancock confident jab works against Indian variant: The health secretary also says people aged 35 and over in England will be offered the vaccine this week. → https://is.gd/BrEzXy13:54
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Covid preparedness at home: Four basic things you need to know → https://is.gd/M7cMf914:05
guriyalast week I suspected I got covid but since a week I am not very sick...I am spectical and worried what to do if my father or mother gets it14:32
BrainstormUpdates for Oman: +2798 cases (now 205511), +45 deaths (now 2193) since 5 days ago — Belarus: +1627 cases (now 376341), +10 deaths (now 2701) since 22 hours ago — Germany: +86 deaths (now 86085) since 21 hours ago14:32
vaioguriya: i'd try to get tested (if you didn't do it already)14:35
guriyavaio testing is pain and chances I may get infected there14:35
vaiobut heh, i'd have done that as soon as a suspicion occured14:35
guriyalast  was told it will be 13days to die after covid14:36
guriyabut I think it is wrong info14:36
guriyamany people living more than 13days14:36
vaioi trust the medical people.  If you go there, wear a mask, and follow the safety things, chances are pretty low to get infected imho14:37
vaio(but i might be wrong. i'd wait for a more educated person to answer :))14:38
guriyavaio If medical people were so effective why did we have so many deaths?14:39
guriyawe dont have good medical scientists and doctors14:39
vaiooh you're a troll, ok.14:39
guriyavaio ?? I am not14:42
guriyaOur governments not investing in medicine and hospitals14:43
guriyaIts true that doctors there days are joke and are money minded unlike before where God were treated as God14:44
voltage_lol 13 days to die after you get covid?!14:49
voltage_holy shit, dude14:49
guriyavoltage_ someone told here with some url a weekback14:51
CoronaBot/r/coronavirus: Netherlands sends 700 thousand corona vaccines to Suriname (enough to vaccinate the entire adult population) (10064 votes) | https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/nederland-stuurt-700-duizend-coronavaccins-naar-suriname~bbedf2d9/ | https://redd.it/nd6m3w14:54
finely[m]<guriya "Its true that doctors there days"> Can I ask if you are in India?15:01
guriyafinely[m] what is m?15:03
guriyaif I may ask where are you from?15:03
finely[m]?15:04
guriyaare you racist?15:04
finely[m]New zealand15:04
finely[m]Nope15:04
guriyayour name has m in []15:04
finely[m]Maybe a matrix to irc thing?15:05
finely[m]About two seems right for severe COVID, but I am not an expert.15:06
finely[m]* About two weeks right for severe COVID, but I am not an expert.15:11
guriyafinely[m] hmm, some expert who has been studying about covid for a year told me15:12
finely[m]If you are in India it might not be worth the risk to go and get tested right now. Anywhere else, get tested so health workers can do contact tracing if you are sick. Of course assume you are infected and try to isolate yourself as best you can. Good luck.15:14
finely[m]<guriya "finely hmm, some expert who has "> Most people don't get severe disease, but it is very worrying I know.15:15
BrainstormUpdates for India: +5113 deaths (now 270284) since 22 hours ago — Switzerland: +1 deaths (now 10731) since a day ago15:41
Mikaela-local mode +I R-66Y15:41
ComirnatyNeritWe saw a beaver.15:42
Mikaela-local /mode +I R-66Y15:43
voltage_finely[m], are you serious? contact tracing at this stage of the pandemic? you can't trace shit15:55
ComirnatyNeritCorrection.  We saw a muskrat.15:56
de-factovoltage_, it depends on if a country managed to bring down incidence with generic measures to a level where more specific but limited resources such as track and trace can be invested in each case16:20
de-factoOceania for example16:20
de-factoactually that should be the goal16:21
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Increasing Confidence Jabs Work against Indian Variant → https://is.gd/ELvdS016:23
BrainstormUpdates for Nepal: +7316 cases (now 455020), +145 deaths (now 5001) since a day ago16:31
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Hundreds of bodies found buried along Indian riverbanks | 16MAY21 → https://is.gd/6YIA7i17:07
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Underage marriages increase in Lebanon during pandemic → https://is.gd/KwEJiG17:40
CoronaBot/r/coronavirus: New mask rules trust Americans will be honest about vaccine status. Experts say they'll lie. (10548 votes) | https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/05/15/new-mask-rules-trust-americans-honest-vaccine-status/5107686001/ | https://redd.it/ndkvik17:50
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Sinovac, AstraZeneca over 97% effective in immune system boost | 16MAY21 → https://is.gd/X1JdZo17:51
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Mongolia vaccinates over 2.4 million against COVID-19 | 16MAY21 → https://is.gd/RtdI9i18:02
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +5586 cases (now 1.3 million), +40 deaths (now 24914) since 23 hours ago18:10
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Cancel the Olympics? Concerns rise among Tokyo officials as virus spreads | 16MAY21 → https://is.gd/boWORl18:13
LjLpwr22, ... what? the suspicious people called the police? O.o18:20
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +5748 cases (now 4.2 million), +93 deaths (now 124156) since a day ago18:35
BrainstormNew from Virological.org: Latest posts: Early appearance of two distinct genomic lineages of SARS-CoV-2 in different Wuhan wildlife markets suggests SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin: Thank you for this very interesting and necessary discussion about the origin of SARS-CoV-2. I think that an alternative scenario to explain the presence of ancestral viral [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/fR02Ya18:45
de-facto.title https://www.gov.uk/government/news/one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-can-cut-household-transmission-by-up-to-half19:15
Brainstormde-facto: From www.gov.uk: One dose of COVID-19 vaccine can cut household transmission by up to half - GOV.UK19:15
de-facto.title https://khub.net/documents/135939561/390853656/Impact+of+vaccination+on+household+transmission+of+SARS-COV-2+in+England.pdf/35bf4bb1-6ade-d3eb-a39e-9c9b25a8122a?t=161960187813619:16
Brainstormde-facto: From khub.net: Untitled (Jennifer Hall)19:16
de-facto"This new research shows that those who do become infected 3 weeks after receiving one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or AstraZeneca vaccine were between 38% and 49% less likely to pass the virus on to their household contacts than those who were unvaccinated."19:22
de-facto"Protection was seen from around 14 days after vaccination, with similar levels of protection regardless of age of cases or contacts."19:22
de-facto"This protection is on top of the reduced risk of a vaccinated person developing symptomatic infection in the first place, which is around 60 to 65% – 4 weeks after one dose of either vaccine."19:23
de-facto"The study included over 57,000 contacts from 24,000 households in which there was a lab-confirmed case that had received a vaccination, compared with nearly 1 million contacts of unvaccinated cases"19:23
de-factoThe secondary attack rate (SAR) measures the transmissibility of an infectious agent.19:27
de-facto"As a high risk setting for transmission, households can provide early evidence for impacts of interventions, such as vaccines, in preventing the onward transmission from an index case to household contacts."19:28
frtnxde-facto you're my hero19:29
frtnxyou care19:29
frtnxthats everything19:29
de-facto"Data were extracted on 23 March 2021 and included individuals with at least 14 days of observable follow-up from the date of specimen collection from the index case (i.e. index cases between 4 January 2021 to 28 February 2021, secondary cases up to 14 March 2021). There were 552,984 residential households of 2 to 10 people where there was at least one case."19:32
de-factoand since data was collected in UK, it mostly would be about PANGO lineage B.1.1.7 i guess (though afaik they did not sequence the vaccine breakthroughs)19:33
de-facto"In households where the index case was not vaccinated before testing positive, there were 96,898 secondary cases out of 960,765 household contacts (10.1%). There were 196 secondary cases in 3,424 contacts (5.72%) where the index case received the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine 21 days or more before testing positive, and 371 secondary cases in 5,939 contacts (6.25%) where the index case received the BNT162b2 vaccine 21 days or more before19:36
de-factotesting positive."19:36
de-facto"The unadjusted odds ratio for being a secondary case if the index case was vaccinated with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 21 days or more before testing positive (vs. index case not vaccinated) was 0.55 (95% CI 0.46, 0.67), and for BNT162b2, 0.57 (95% CI 0.49, 0.65). Results from the multivariable model were similar, with an adjusted OR of 0.53 (95% CI 0.43, 0.63) for ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and 0.51 (95% CI 0.44, 0.59) for BNT162b2."19:37
de-facto"These results show that the likelihood of household transmission is 40-50% lower for households in which the index cases are vaccinated 21 days or more prior to testing positive (compared to no vaccination), with similar effects for both ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and BNT162b2 vaccines."19:41
de-facto"The results on timing of vaccination indicate that the reduction in transmission can be detected at 14 days after vaccination, which is consistent with the timing of effective protection from infection for the vaccinated individual"19:42
de-facto"We used a definition of vaccination status of the index case as having been vaccinated 21 days or more prior to testing, as a summary measure for both vaccines."19:43
de-facto"Most of the vaccinated index cases (93%) in our analysis had received just one dose of vaccine and it will be important to assess if there are any further reduction in transmissibility from receiving a second dose of vaccine when such data become available."19:45
de-facto"The HOSTED dataset only has information on diagnosed secondary cases; studies with active follow-up and serological testing have shown higher rates of household transmission (21). Our data cannot identify asymptomatic cases."19:46
de-facto"In addition to the direct effects of preventing cases and reducing severity, we have shown that both the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and BNT162b2 vaccines are associated with reduced likelihood of household transmission by 40-50% from individuals diagnosed with COVID-19 after vaccination, highlighting important wider benefits to close contacts."19:48
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Recurrence of Upper Extremity Deep Vein Thrombosis Secondary to COVID-19 (84 votes) | https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/5/878/htm | https://redd.it/ndo1la19:56
BrainstormNew from Virological.org: Latest posts: Genomic Surveillance of SARS-CoV-2 in the State of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil: technical briefing: [Update information - Genomic surveillance of the state of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, in the period between March, 24th, 2021 and April, 26th, 2021] On May 14th, 2021, we performed the sequencing, assembling and analyzing [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/6qRYiH20:00
guriyahi all, sometimes I get so panic because of covid. Really very scary not sure what to do20:12
kevin-oculuswe will live with covid20:21
pwr22Hmm, upper extremity DVTs are extremely uncommon in any case20:23
guriyakevin-oculus but sometime my heart is being pumped and very scared what if I get it or my parents get it. What should I do?20:27
guriyapwr22 what is extremity DVTs20:28
pwr22<LjL "Peter, ... what? the suspicious "> Yeah, and two other different people were arrested. The ones outside my door were hiding from them20:28
pwr22<guriya "Peter what is extremity DVTs"> DVTs in not in your legs20:28
guriyaso not conversation with me20:29
pwr22Nope, it's in reference to the link above20:29
pwr22guriya it's very understandable to be anxious. Maybe try to respond yourself that you're not alone in feeling that way and there isn't really anything you can do that you aren't already20:30
pwr22Social distance where possible, wear masks when indoors with others not from your household, and wash hands out use sanitizer regularly20:31
pwr22Get a vaccine when you can20:31
pwr22That's all you can reasonably do20:31
finely[m]Another estimate of patent free vaccines at $3 a dose. $25 billion to vaccine the world using mRNA and have the capacity to quickly alter the vaccines to be effective against variants. That is less than what the US government has already spent to develop the vaccines.20:31
finely[m]https://www.citizen.org/article/25-billion-to-vaccinate-the-world/20:31
guriyapwr22 (y)20:32
guriyafinely[m] why ot our body anti-bodies fight naturally with covid?20:33
finely[m]<voltage_ "finely, are you serious? contact"> Depends where you are.20:33
guriyanot*20:33
guriyaI am willing to contribute financially aswel as with programming if I can offer any help to get rid of covid...is there something I can do?20:34
guriyahttps://ocw.mit.edu/resources/res-10-s95-physics-of-covid-19-transmission-fall-2020/   doing this course and it is more like course in fluids20:35
finely[m]<guriya "finely why ot our body anti-bodi"> I was saying antibodies from a first infection may stop you from becoming infected a second time, but the immune response you get from a vaccine is better (stronger protection and it lasts longer).20:38
LjLpwr22, yikes... so being chased to be mugged or similar?20:38
LjLguriya, they do fight, sometimes too hard, sometimes it's the antibodies that become the enemy20:39
pwr22When I have my statement they said it was a suspected robbery or something20:39
pwr22*gave20:39
guriyafinely[m] but is it not possible that they can defeat covid at first time?20:39
LjLguriya, with pathogens, it's a race to beat the pathogen without also attacking the body itself20:39
pwr22It turns out the flat they are from is done sort of emergency housing thing20:39
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +6501 cases (now 1.3 million) since 23 hours ago20:39
LjLguriya, when people who get COVID get well, or even are asymptomatic, then sure, our body's immune system defeat it the first time20:40
LjLbut it's not the same for everyone20:40
guriyaLjL I see20:42
finely[m]"So much public investment went into the covid vaccines that it's hard to account for it all. The GAO thinks that Uncle Sam coughed up $18-23b in direct subsidies. BARDA pumped in $19.3b."20:42
finely[m]https://pluralistic.net/2021/05/16/entrepreneurial-state/20:42
guriyaLjL its okay to take paracetamol?20:43
LjLguriya, if you can take paracetamol in other cases, then yes, it's also okay with COVID as far as i know... but it won't *cure* it, it will just make you feel hopefully a little better temporarily20:44
guriyaLjL why we couldn't have something to cure covid its been already a year and I want to take medicine rather than scary injection20:45
kevin-oculus guriya  i got covid 2 montths ago , after 1 month with covid i tryed to run for 1 hour i come back home with appendix pain i went to hospital with ambulance they xray appendix inflamation and you need surgery, after surgery they told me it was bursted so dunno if covid infection attacked my appendix but i never had that pain so yes covid is scary but hey one day we will day so its just get used to it :((20:45
LjLguriya, i've heard from some "TV experts" (well, hospital heads speaking on TV) that cases that are not yet severe should be treate with aspirin or nimesulide, and those may help prevent them from becoming severe cases. but it's just their word, and of course they also said this should always be overseen by a doctor20:45
kevin-oculusone day we will die --20:45
LjLguriya, because we've been trying to find cures and we haven't found them, basically20:46
LjLanyway even the cures we have found (which only work in a minority of cases) involve injections20:46
LjLyou really should be much more scared of getting COVID and any cures for it (which are cures that may take a heavy toll on your body) than just the vaccine injection20:46
guriyaLjL  https://ocw.mit.edu/resources/res-10-s95-physics-of-covid-19-transmission-fall-2020/lecture-videos/video-2-1-airborne-disease-transmission-in-a-well-mixed-room2014respiration-and-ventilation/  planing to take this course to do something from my end but i got no clue what I can do20:47
LjLi mean, maybe that doesn't help to say you should be MORE scared. you should be LESS scared of the vaccine.20:47
guriyakevin-oculus good to know you are good now20:47
kevin-oculusall my family got covid my father mother my sisters children age 10-1120:47
guriyaI am still very scared because we failed to have good medicine and not prepared for things like covid20:48
kevin-oculusmy sisters children 10 years old started crying they thought we gone die when we were tested covid positive20:49
guriyakevin-oculus I feel sad because we don't deserve this. We have so much technology20:51
guriyawe got machine that act like human, rockets that land n moon and mars20:51
guriyaMany people lives in danger20:52
guriyaand even I feel if my life got any guarantee20:52
guriyahttps://youtu.be/54XLXg4fYsc20:58
kevin-oculuswell we live in a capitalist world the we are govs enemies20:58
guriyakevin-oculus sadly20:59
guriyacapitalists are the one who spread covid as they do business20:59
guriyaand hospitals are now businesses21:00
guriyamore the covid cases more demand for vaccines and more demand for hospitals21:00
guriyaHospitals should never have demand21:00
guriyawe should have supply of doctors/medicine/hospitals21:00
guriyagovts failing there is not a govt21:01
finely[m]<guriya "kevin-oculus I feel sad because "> I am grateful so many different types of great vaccines were made in such a short time. That had never been done before. Now we just need to manufacture and distribute the vaccines.21:01
kevin-oculuswell you see many hospitalis did not even had enough ventilators21:02
guriyafinely[m] I dont agree because "prevention is better than cure" ...no measures were taken to prevent such diseases. Ourr investments on defense and medicine are incomparable21:02
LjL"just"21:02
LjLguriya, but vaccines are more preventions than treatments (cures) are. and yet you just said that you would prefer a cure instead of these vaccine injections...21:03
LjLseems a bit contradictory...?21:03
kevin-oculusyes they did a vaccine we will see the effect of vaccine after 2-3 maybe you will get bad side effects after 2-3 years you never know21:03
guriyaLjL this is different21:03
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Hundreds of bodies found buried along Indian riverbanks → https://is.gd/0cmd1o21:03
guriyaLjL prevention in my context is to stop the spread and here we also need cure because we need to take cre of infected people also21:04
guriyacare*21:04
LjLvaccines are a way to stop the spread, among other things21:04
kevin-oculuslets hope so21:04
LjLalso, hospitals will *never* have enough ventilator and everything to cope with a spike in an epidemic. even if you make many more hospitals, it's just not feasible to always have the hospital capacity to treat a ton of people at the same time (but most of the time, treating much fewer people)21:05
guriyaLjL vaccines could stop but the way it spread from very few cases...We are so negligent21:06
LjLyes21:06
LjLbut now, in many countries, it's probably too late to stop the spread the way they did in China, Korea, maybe Thailand, Japan etc21:07
guriyaWe need good investments in medical studied and medical equipments and after all what we are going to do in soace or mars when we cant stay alive here21:07
LjLwe should still be careful but it's not realistic, i'm afraid21:07
guriyaLjL we have to compare the ratio of Engineers to doctors21:09
guriyaso many less number of doctors compared to Engineers let alone software engineers21:10
kevin-oculuswell in my country no matter how sick you were cance or other sickness the hospitals closed their doors and were only accepting covid patients the rest of diseasase did not matter21:11
guriyakevin-oculus very true now I couldn't test anything without covid test21:12
kevin-oculuswhich is very bad for a hospital even thought they did not had enough ventilators the hospitals did not care that much about their own citizen21:13
guriyakevin-oculus I am very dissapointed that hospitals are run by chains bye only few people21:13
guriyaand they want to make billions from deaths21:13
guriyas/bye/by21:14
kevin-oculusits run by politics21:15
guriyakevin-oculus politicians are always blamed but they are just mediators to big people21:15
guriyaThey are like pimps21:16
kevin-oculusin some poor countries they when covid patients are getting into hospital to get oxygen they remove oxygen tube sothey die and they say it was covid who killed21:16
guriyayes21:16
guriyathis is what happening in poor countries21:16
guriyamaking life miserable21:16
kevin-oculusi think its happening even in rich countries we have so much information but we dont know anything21:17
LjLuh, it happened here in Lombardy from the start21:17
LjLpeople were being triaged21:17
LjLif you were deemed unlikely to survive COVID, you wouldn't get an ICU bed21:17
LjLthat's what you do when there are not enough of them21:18
guriyaRich or Poor we all have fear of death21:18
guriyaso we are same21:18
LjLit's terrible but it's what happens, doesn't have to be in a third world country (okay italy sometimes feels a bit like one but still)21:18
guriyaMyself so scared of death and willing to spend any amount21:18
LjLguriya it probably doesn't help but you know extreme anxiety and panic also makes the immune system worse?21:18
guriyaLjL Understood21:19
guriyaI am saying what we will do when it comes to life21:19
kevin-oculusyou know that stress is the number one to all diseases its very very bad dont stress panic your body21:20
guriyawhen we are suffering we dont really care about money or anything so some want to take advantage of it21:20
LjLi'm scared too21:20
LjLironically, the people who aren't scared probably should be more scared21:20
kevin-oculusstress panic triggers lots of diseases21:20
LjLthe ones who are scared will pay more attention21:20
LjLso being afraid is good because there *is* something we should be afraid of21:20
LjLbut it's hard to avoid the fear becoming panic21:21
LjLit should not become panic21:21
guriyaYeah I agree and will not panic21:21
LjLhm21:26
BrainstormUpdates for France: +54 deaths (now 107557) since 23 hours ago21:35
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +45 deaths (now 86106) since 21 hours ago22:00
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Rutgers Reports First Instance of COVID-19 Triggering Recurrent Blood Clots in Arms (80 votes) | https://www.rutgers.edu/news/rutgers-reports-first-instance-covid-19-triggering-recurrent-blood-clots-arms | https://redd.it/ndntfl22:27
dzhohttps://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/?utm_source=pocket-newtab22:30
BrainstormUpdates for Timor-Leste: +179 cases (now 4458), +2 deaths (now 10) since a day ago22:37
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Top Indian virologist quits government panel weeks after questioning the authorities' handling of the pandemic → https://is.gd/lozWX423:00
LjLdzho, saw that one before, but didn't read it in detail, because it was long and also i already agreed that the WHO and the CDC had been foolish in their "not airborne" insistence... but the actual details are interesting/unsettling23:08
Adman%cases USA23:44
BrainstormAdman: In United States, there have been 33.3 million confirmed cases (10.1% of the population) and 592520 deaths (1.8% of cases) as of 5 minutes ago. 465.2 million tests were performed (7.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 2.5% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.1% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20States for time series data.23:44

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