| pwr22 | The highlight from your IRC account did work btw | 00:11 |
|---|---|---|
| pwr22 | LjL /\ | 00:11 |
| de-facto | pwr22, how did you join now? | 00:13 |
| de-facto | yuta, btw what is going on in Japan with COVID? | 00:14 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/japan/ <-- numbers are rising | 00:15 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.worldometers.info: Japan COVID: 733,887 Cases and 12,714 Deaths - Worldometer | 00:15 |
| de-facto | .title https://covariants.org/per-country <-- and according to that the indian B.1.617.2 https://covariants.org/variants/21A.S.478K | 00:15 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From covariants.org: CoVariants | 00:15 |
| yuta | de-facto: hospital is full all place. | 00:16 |
| yuta | in japan. | 00:16 |
| LjL | de-facto, pwr22 is using Matrix but instead of using the plumbed (well, currently NOT plumbed) room, he joined ##covid-19:libera.chat which is the automatic portal room from the bridge | 00:17 |
| de-facto | wow really that bad already yuta ? | 00:17 |
| LjL | that's currently the only way to use the official bridge, but i think i will enable it in this room relatively shortly | 00:17 |
| LjL | it's working now, as far as i can see, in both directions, but i will test on smaller rooms before going for this one | 00:17 |
| yuta | de-facto: I think so, british mutant. | 00:17 |
| de-facto | yuta, damn thats bad, i thought its the Indian Mutant B.1.617.2 on the rise in Japan | 00:18 |
| de-facto | are there any official dashboards for the contributions form each mutant? | 00:18 |
| LjL | de-facto, it is disheartening that guy from India is so freaked out, lost relatives, but at the same time that seems to make him *less* likely to get the vaccine or get his parents to get it :( | 00:18 |
| LjL | i think this is probably a widespread phenomenon. seems counterintuitive. | 00:18 |
| de-facto | LjL, yeah i did not understand that part too | 00:19 |
| de-facto | i felt sorry for his loss, just wanted to talk a bit, its crazy there at some places | 00:21 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: what LjL said 😛 | 00:22 |
| yuta | ah , de-facto , It is still british mutant result. Indian mutant is coming soon. | 00:22 |
| pwr22 | LjL: Did they mention not getting vaccines? Must have missed that part ☹️ | 00:22 |
| LjL | de-facto, they say anecdotes are valuable in medicine but don't make statistics. but on the other hand, i wouldn't know what to make of the official numbers from India, if i didn't know, simply, just by taking to like 3 indians, that the situation is way, way worse than the official numbers show. | 00:23 |
| LjL | pwr22, they were very skeptical/hesitant | 00:23 |
| pwr22 | Crazy, even after the current situation there and losing family ☹️ | 00:23 |
| LjL | pwr22, they weren't outright saying "won't get it", though, but saying things like "isn't the vaccine the reason we're having this wave?" | 00:23 |
| LjL | pwr22, he sees people getting vaccinated and then getting fever and ending up in hospital and maybe dying, and it gets attributed to the vaccine | 00:24 |
| pwr22 | Oh god | 00:24 |
| yuta | de-facto: https://mainichi.jp/articles/20210515/ddm/002/040/053000c This suggests british mutant is 90% and over of infections. | 00:24 |
| pwr22 | I wonder if Alex Jones is popular over there | 00:24 |
| LjL | pwr22, of course *getting vaccinated* could be a strong risk for getting COVID if you are normally isolated in your home, but on the other hand, vaccine centers are crammed and full of people likely to have COVID | 00:24 |
| pwr22 | yuta: I think that's good in at least that variant seems to get beaten by the vaccines | 00:25 |
| LjL | honestly, a period of peak epidemic isn't the ideal time when to run a mass vaccination campaign. but there isn't much other choice | 00:25 |
| LjL | even if you don't get COVID at the vaccine center, you may get high fever from the vaccine (which happen), and if you're old and need to go to the ER for that, well, there are many chances you will be exposed to COVID then | 00:25 |
| de-facto | yuta, according to https://covariants.org/per-country it seems till begin of April it was the British Mutant B.1.1.7 but then their samples get dominated by the Indian Mutant B.1.617.2 that seems to spread in other places too now (e.g. UK) | 00:25 |
| pwr22 | LjL: "normal" people my age and younger are now getting the vaccines here in the UK | 00:26 |
| LjL | so i kind of understand where all those worries arise. they get mis-attributed to an effect of the vaccine itself. | 00:26 |
| yuta | pwr22: yes. | 00:26 |
| LjL | pwr22, i will get it on june 5 | 00:26 |
| LjL | so we're catching up :) | 00:26 |
| pwr22 | Nice, I think you'll get it before my flat mate and my friend who was visiting this week then! | 00:26 |
| yuta | de-facto: always Japan get viruses latter than other countries.lol , so we got indian mutant at last . lol | 00:27 |
| de-facto | not really, in this case (if the data would represent the mutants) Japan is one of the first countries to have such big portions of the Indian mutant | 00:28 |
| de-facto | i am not sure though if those samples that are the basis for those numbers were collected without bias | 00:28 |
| pwr22 | And iirc you had covid classic pretty early on too 😛 | 00:28 |
| de-facto | e.g. randomly chosen from positive cases or originated from some mutant cluster where they did increased sampling or such | 00:29 |
| de-facto | yuta, in that article you linked they mention that its more young people in hospitals in Japan now, also surviving longer hence occupying beds for longer time | 00:30 |
| de-facto | maybe that partly is responsible for hospital capacity being fully used? | 00:30 |
| de-facto | yuta, how bad is it actually? can they deal with it or is it like people are not getting the treatment they need? | 00:31 |
| yuta | de-facto: some people says that. they say that hospital is not full. | 00:31 |
| yuta | de-facto: Already , it occurs some deathes without treatment in Japan. | 00:32 |
| de-facto | wow really? | 00:33 |
| yuta | de-facto: for example, death at home. | 00:33 |
| yuta | de-facto: yes. | 00:33 |
| pwr22 | The UK variant graph is looking a little scary there... | 00:34 |
| de-facto | yuta, damn that sounds bad | 00:34 |
| yuta | de-facto: I think bad and worse than before. | 00:35 |
| de-facto | yuta, how come it went up again? any specific reason for that like change in behavior of the people or such? | 00:35 |
| yuta | de-facto: Mid-May , we stopped accepting people from India. That is too late. lol | 00:36 |
| de-facto | might be beyond peak already though, seems like cases hat a maximum mid of May or such | 00:36 |
| de-facto | yeah | 00:37 |
| yuta | de-facto: we didn't stop accepting foreign guests. I think that is reason why mutant spreading. | 00:37 |
| de-facto | well international travel is how the mutant is imported but spreads in the local population, hence rising numbers must depend on both, behavior of people and also maybe to some degree on a more infectious mutant | 00:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: Our last indoor meal as a family before the pandemic was Bob’s Clam Hut in Maine. Now it’s one of our first, with all of us vaccinated (guest mother-in-law as well) and cases dropping fast: → https://is.gd/MaTZbP | 00:38 |
| yuta | de-facto: Japanese exparts says number of infections in july is peak of Indian mutant. | 00:38 |
| de-facto | yeah that would fit with the covariants graph i linked above | 00:39 |
| yuta | de-facto: restaurant closing early . This is only special action in Japan. | 00:39 |
| de-facto | so everything else is still open? | 00:40 |
| yuta | de-facto: yes. | 00:40 |
| yuta | but gov says don't open shops full day. | 00:40 |
| de-facto | well if that limits contacts instead of condensing visits in a more narrow timewindow... | 00:41 |
| de-facto | yet maybe, hopefully, the peak was mid May and now numbers going down again in Japan? | 00:42 |
| de-facto | rise was from mid March - April - mid May | 00:43 |
| de-facto | looks like mid April the UK mutant was overcome by the Indian mutant | 00:44 |
| yuta | de-facto: no , Mid-May is full of UK mutant. | 00:47 |
| yuta | de-facto: Next July , Full of India mutant. | 00:47 |
| yuta | de-facto: so , now , Infections is almost full of India mutant. | 00:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: R to @Dereklowe: And it's something to feel that as simple a thing as eating indoors in a restaurant is a step up - but it is. And it's thanks to the hard work done discovering and rolling out the vaccines. Which are the way out of this whole mess! → https://is.gd/gDtuie | 00:49 |
| yuta | de-facto: and less vacctination. | 00:49 |
| yuta | pwr22 is correct . but we have less vacctination. | 00:50 |
| yuta | de-facto: If you want to know about Japan situation, let me try to explain with poor english :P | 00:52 |
| charade | when is the olympics | 00:55 |
| yuta | charade: It starts End of July. lool | 00:56 |
| charade | yuta: what are R0 numbers for Osaka etc, or is that relevant | 00:58 |
| yuta | charade: https://toyokeizai.net/sp/visual/tko/covid19/en.html | 00:59 |
| yuta | This is reliable. | 00:59 |
| yuta | Osaka R0 is 0.69. | 00:59 |
| yuta | This sites number is from officials. but I don't rely it lol | 01:00 |
| de-facto | oh nice link thanks yuta | 01:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +8996 cases (now 1.7 million), +218 deaths (now 56293) since 17 hours ago — Switzerland: +3 deaths (now 10801) since 23 hours ago | 01:08 |
| charade | yuta: are the Nurses going to boycott the olympics? | 01:08 |
| yuta | charade: still silent. but they cancels volunteer. lool | 01:09 |
| yuta | de-facto: np | 01:16 |
| de-facto | WIth daily infections N(t) = N0 R^(t/ts) the Reproduction Number R = [ N(t) / N0 ]^(ts/t) hence t = ts Ln[ N(t) / N0 ] / Ln[ R ] so assuming R ~ 0.85 is based on ts ~ 4d we would get a halflife of t = 4d Ln(1/2) / Ln(0.85) ~ 17d | 01:16 |
| de-facto | meaning if conditions would stay exactly as they are with R ~ 0.85 daily infection numbers would be half the amount with each additional 17 days passing | 01:17 |
| de-facto | yet at some point non-linear effects kick in so that approximation only holds for a limited amount of time | 01:19 |
| charade | yuta: are you in the medical professions? | 01:21 |
| yuta | de-facto: I see. Thanks. | 01:22 |
| LjL | they cancel volunteers? | 01:22 |
| LjL | de-facto, in japanese, that means "I have no idea what you just said, but thanks anyway" | 01:22 |
| de-facto | LjL, btw thats a really good page, maybe you could put it in the link collection? | 01:22 |
| de-facto | https://toyokeizai.net/sp/visual/tko/covid19/en.html | 01:22 |
| LjL | that is also what I would say most of the time when you do the maths, but instead I just keep silent :P | 01:22 |
| yuta | de-facto: we should think non-liner effect. we are already into non-liner effect maybe. | 01:22 |
| yuta | LjL: yes, 70% of them cancel. | 01:23 |
| yuta | LjL: in japanese, that means "I have no idea what you just said, but thanks anyway" | 01:26 |
| yuta | lol | 01:26 |
| LjL | ;) | 01:27 |
| LjL | hmm i've added it and i remember either you or someone else had something they proposed to be added a few days ago... pffft i don't think i even put it in the "to-review" list | 01:28 |
| LjL | i'm incorrigible | 01:28 |
| LjL | if i make a list of things to review whether i should review later, then i won't put it in *that* list | 01:28 |
| Bridgestorm | <RSS Bot [@LjL:matrix.org]> Recent Commits to links:master: Add Tokyo Keizai tracker for Japan ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/71206474e4fdf4b7e6569c9793daaf6150c66d32 ) | 01:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add Tokyo Keizai tracker for Japan → https://is.gd/rQWoho | 01:31 |
| yuta | hey , toyo keizai = economic magazine , that is Tokyo keizai univ . lool | 01:32 |
| yuta | XD | 01:32 |
| de-facto | thanks LjL | 01:33 |
| LjL | yuta, whoops | 01:33 |
| yuta | :) | 01:33 |
| de-facto | i am not sure if it was me, maybe someone else wanted to add a link? | 01:33 |
| LjL | de-facto, i'll try to find it in the logs, although i never find anything | 01:35 |
| Bridgestorm | <RSS Bot [@LjL:matrix.org]> Recent Commits to links:master: Correct Tokyo Keizai entry, it's the paper, not the university ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/e446a9d9531a2734ef399fe0b8c6fc33981da128 ) | 01:35 |
| yuta | LjL: Perfect :) | 01:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Correct Tokyo Keizai entry, it's the paper, not the university → https://is.gd/JFPU23 | 01:41 |
| LjL | de-facto, pwr22: i'm tempted to install the official (not yet announced, but seems to be working okay in smaller rooms, for now) Libera bridge in here now, what do you say? | 01:48 |
| LjL | i could also upgrade it to version 6, but it's already at version 5, which is probably good enough... other rooms i need to bridge were at version 1 | 01:48 |
| de-facto | you know better than me about such matrix things :) | 01:50 |
| de-facto | what do you mean by official not yet announced? | 01:51 |
| de-facto | can it be removed without bugs? | 01:51 |
| LjL | de-facto, we've been told to wait for an announcement on https://matrix.org/blog before considering it "official" | 01:51 |
| LjL | and i don't know if it can be removed without bugs. initially that wasn't the case. i *think* those problems were fixed, but that's the big unknown :P | 01:52 |
| LjL | if it works fine, it works fine. if it doesn't and i have to remove it, it might possibly be a problem | 01:52 |
| de-facto | can you remove it from your test rooms? | 01:52 |
| LjL | de-facto, i've used my actual rooms as my test rooms :P i think i'll try removing it from a room that i've forgotten at v1 (i think i've done that with a couple, sigh...) so i can upgrade it too | 01:53 |
| LjL | de-facto, yes, it worked, i could remove, upgrade, and then add again | 01:58 |
| LjL | i think i will do it | 01:58 |
| de-facto | very nice :) | 01:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Joe Biden Believes China Hiding COVID-19 Origin Info, China Warns 'Political Virus' Spreading → https://is.gd/CvoCh4 | 02:13 |
| Bridgestorm | <LjL> Matterbridge is about to be disabled. For a short time, messages sent from Matrix won't be seen on IRC, and vice versa. Shortly, the official Matrix-Libera bridge will be enabled. | 02:15 |
| LjL | "Failed to make link: Unexpected token < in JSON at position 0" on this try. Let's try again... | 02:18 |
| LjL | argh | 02:18 |
| LjL | but now the appservice is present -.- | 02:18 |
| LjL | hrm | 02:19 |
| LjL | this isn't working very well, it times out | 02:19 |
| LjL | well, i don't know if it times out, but it takes too long and then i get errors | 02:19 |
| Brainstorm[m] | <de-facto> can you remove it from your test rooms? | 02:21 |
| Brainstorm[m] | <LjL> de-facto, i've used my actual rooms as my test rooms :P i think i'll try removing it from a room that i've forgotten at v1 (i think i've done that with a couple, sigh...) so i can upgrade it too | 02:21 |
| Brainstorm[m] | <LjL> de-facto, yes, it worked, i could remove, upgrade, and then add again | 02:21 |
| Brainstorm[m] | <LjL> i think i will do it | 02:21 |
| Brainstorm[m] | <de-facto> very nice :) | 02:22 |
| Brainstorm[m] | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Joe Biden Believes China Hiding COVID-19 Origin Info, China Warns 'Political Virus' Spreading → https://is.gd/CvoCh4 | 02:22 |
| LjL[m] | Matterbridge is about to be disabled. For a short time, messages sent from Matrix won't be seen on IRC, and vice versa. Shortly, the official Matrix-Libera bridge will be enabled. | 02:22 |
| * LjL[m] crosses fingers | 02:22 | |
| LjL[m] | Ugh. Appservice failed | 02:22 |
| LjL | sorry for the noise and the highlight de-facto but it's the appservice that seems to think a bit of past is good to have, not me :P | 02:22 |
| * de-facto keeps fingers crossed | 02:22 | |
| de-facto | welcome :) | 02:24 |
| de-facto | interesting they all got their own ipv6 | 02:24 |
| LjL | de-facto, yeah, but i'm not sure if this will remain the case, or they'll get gateway cloaks eventually. i'm not sure they know either :D | 02:26 |
| LjL | but maybe they'll keep IPs. after all the webchat switched to IPs | 02:26 |
| LjL | i guess messages won't start getting bridged until all the users have joined | 02:26 |
| LjL | but it seems to be working, just some patience needed | 02:27 |
| LjL | hi CovBot[m] ;) | 02:27 |
| de-facto[m] | 🌞 | 02:29 |
| darsie | nice rectangle | 02:29 |
| de-facto | its a happy sun! | 02:29 |
| LjL | i see the sun! | 02:34 |
| LjL | ths might wake a while :D | 02:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +3708 cases (now 4.5 million), +10 deaths (now 127894) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +4158 cases (now 1.7 million), +18 deaths (now 17733) since 23 hours ago | 02:35 |
| de-facto | 100 and counting... | 02:35 |
| LjL | de-facto, i think we were around 260 on the old place | 02:36 |
| LjL | but that might not mean much | 02:36 |
| de-facto | i like that i count double though :) | 02:36 |
| de-facto | one on irc one on matrix :P | 02:36 |
| charade | just rectangle | 02:39 |
| LjL[m] | This room is now directly bridged with Libera.chat. You may see a bit of noise in the coming minutes while the bridge syncs. | 02:42 |
| rmonten[m] | So I can connect to this room both as #covid-19:matrix.org... | 03:00 |
| rmonten[m] | and as ##covid-19:libera.chat. But do I appear as the same user? | 03:00 |
| rmonten[m] | I guess not, at least not to myself | 03:00 |
| jacklsw | you can register same nick in different servers | 03:02 |
| LjL | rmonten[m], no. i would recommend joining the plumbed room as it will come with a nice viral logo! | 03:02 |
| LjL[m] | rmonten[m]: the plumbed room is the other one, if you meant to follow my suggestion :P | 03:03 |
| LjL[m] | that way you will also see the display and avatars of other Matrix users, and... i dunno... stuff | 03:04 |
| rmonten[m] | Lol, left the room through the libera bridge, got kicked off the plumbed room by the appservice | 03:07 |
| LjL[m] | That's weird | 03:07 |
| rmonten[m] | LjL: yes the art in this one is clearly superior | 03:07 |
| LjL[m] | Your self from the libera bridge did not leave, only the plumbed one left O.o | 03:07 |
| LjL[m] | Try to reproduce it and file a bug? :P | 03:07 |
| rmonten[m] | Huh... my element client disagrees | 03:08 |
| LjL[m] | Let me show you what shows up in my Element | 03:08 |
| rmonten[m] | oh lord, yeah I could try | 03:08 |
| * LjL[m] uploaded an image: (96KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/hrzcroetbHwlcyMdQgECpHUn/rmonten.png > | 03:09 | |
| rmonten[m] | test | 03:13 |
| rmonten[m] | thanks | 03:14 |
| LjL | rmonten[m], on IRC i only see one rmonten[m] that left and rejoined, on Matrix it looks like the one with the avatar was kicked and then rejoined, and rmonten[m] stayed | 03:15 |
| rm55 | so weird, I disconnected from ##covid-19:libera.chat, got kicked off of #covid-19:matrix.org again. Element says I left both rooms, and won't rejo... well now it rejoins | 03:16 |
| LjL | sorry that isn't clear with the automatic nickname translation -.- | 03:16 |
| LjL | rm55, maybe do leave both, and only rejoin #covid-19:matrix.org - but might be something to mention in #libera-matrix:libera.chat | 03:16 |
| rmonten[m] | Right, for some reason the libera bridge doesn't actually tell the room that I disconnected | 03:16 |
| rmonten[m] | I will, how should I describe this room. Is “plumbed” the technical term? | 03:17 |
| LjL[m] | rmonten: "freshly plumbed" would be more apt, but yes :D plumbed with the bridge under testing | 03:18 |
| LjL[m] | but I'm there, too, if they say strange things to you I can intervene :P | 03:18 |
| rmonten[m] | 👍️ | 03:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New study claims Chinese scientists created COVID 19 in a lab → https://is.gd/1DuG9I | 03:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Suriname: +293 cases (now 14305), +7 deaths (now 282) since 23 hours ago — Guinea-Bissau: +4 cases (now 3760) since 22 hours ago | 03:37 |
| Lindisfarne | uh, no | 03:42 |
| LjL | what no, Lindisfarne | 03:44 |
| LjL | oh, a daily mail article | 03:44 |
| LjL | i bet it's true | 03:44 |
| LjL | lol, sorry but everyone needs to see the COMPLETE headline | 03:45 |
| LjL | "EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has NO credible natural ancestor' and WAS created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims" | 03:45 |
| Lindisfarne | XD | 03:45 |
| LjL | okay, the first author of this purported "exclusive" study: | 03:46 |
| LjL | %wik Angus Dalgleish | 03:46 |
| qkall | those are a lot of words for my non-sober brain to take it. i will refect and reconvience laters | 03:46 |
| Lindisfarne | for various definitions of ""study"" | 03:46 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Angus George Dalgleish (born May 1950) FRCP FRCPath FMedSci is a professor of oncology at St George's, University of London, best known for his contributions to HIV/AIDS research. Dalgleish stood in 2015 for Parliament as a UKIP candidate. → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Dalgleish | 03:46 |
| LjL | UKIP, that's interesting | 03:46 |
| LjL | the other author Birger Sørensen does come up with some claims that the virus is man-made but also a study on a vaccine *shrug* | 03:47 |
| Lindisfarne | I guess that's a step above macedonian teenager | 03:47 |
| Lindisfarne | "NO credible natural ancestor' is a fucking hilarious derp tho | 03:47 |
| LjL | oh but the vaccine study has this in the abstract: "Mistaken assumptions about SARS-CoV-2’s aetiology risk creatingineffective or actively harmful vaccines" | 03:47 |
| LjL | so it's a vaccine candidate that starts on the assumption the virus is manmade | 03:48 |
| LjL | https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/DBBC0FA6E3763B0067CAAD8F3363E527/S2633289220000083a.pdf/biovacc19_a_candidate_vaccine_for_covid19_sarscov2_developed_from_analysis_of_its_general_method_of_action_for_infectivity.pdf | 03:48 |
| Lindisfarne | thank god for twiv | 03:49 |
| charade | just the latest anti-asian bashing via 'chyna' meme imo | 03:51 |
| LjL | for the record though, i'd wager the virus leaked from the wuhan lab | 03:53 |
| LjL | that doesn't mean i believe ridiculous daily mail claims though :P | 03:54 |
| Lindisfarne | I think it did, too | 03:54 |
| Lindisfarne | It was an error to let the Chinese access modern technology without it going through a modernity revolution | 03:55 |
| LjL | eh | 03:56 |
| LjL | i think it could have happened in a number of non-Chinese places | 03:56 |
| LjL | and i think the ones who could make such a claim in a scientific fashions are also the ones whose lives depend on virology labs existing, so slight conflict of interest | 03:56 |
| Lindisfarne | LjL, happening in non-Chinese places means there's a chance to find out what really caused the pandemic | 04:02 |
| Lindisfarne | and importantly, how to prevent it from happening again | 04:02 |
| Lindisfarne | You can't do that, specifically, with China or Russia/ | 04:02 |
| Lindisfarne | even if it happened in Vietnam or Indonesia, global pressures could be brought to force the truth | 04:03 |
| Lindisfarne | this can never happen with China, as their primary goal is to bury truth if it could be used to harm The Party | 04:03 |
| LjL | like weapons of mass destruction definitely exist, and that's truth, until it isn't, but then it doesn't matter anymore | 04:04 |
| Lindisfarne | if you meant in Iraq, it was never the truth, and we all knew it | 04:04 |
| Lindisfarne | Downing Street Memo said it outright: "intel is being fixed around the desired conclusion" | 04:05 |
| Lindisfarne | astonishingly, Plame still doing lectures, suggesting how cool it is to be in the CIA. | 04:05 |
| LjL | yes i was referring to the fact the UK/US were perfectly able to claim, and to make media mostly sustain the claim, that there were WMD, when many people were like "... seriously?", just like now some of us are like "... seriously?" about this virus NOT being linked to the Wuhan lab | 04:09 |
| freerealestate[m | Exactly. If the origin were camp Detrick the US would never let investigations happen. There's nothing special about china in that respect. And theres just as much evidence pointing to fort detrick as to the wuhan lab. | 04:09 |
| LjL | in the west, that was "the truth" for a while even if many sane people didn't actually believe it | 04:09 |
| freerealestate[m | Also with the US using covid for geopolitical interests, it'll be hard to know whether its a psyop blaming china or science. Especially if we're forced to rely on the same news orgs that've lied on their behalves so often before | 04:11 |
| Lindisfarne | idk man, it came from GWB | 04:11 |
| Lindisfarne | most Americans distrusted him | 04:11 |
| Lindisfarne | What evidence points to Detrick? | 04:12 |
| Lindisfarne | and how is the US "using covid for geopolitical interests" | 04:12 |
| freerealestate[m | Nothing that i would consider proof. I dont want to spread conspiracy theories so you can just google it yourself. But theres none for wuhan either. | 04:14 |
| Lindisfarne | except that the first patients were chinese | 04:15 |
| Lindisfarne | and there was an outbreak in Wuhan, first, then the rest of the world | 04:15 |
| Lindisfarne | and Chinese miners regularly emerge from guano-loaded caves with unseen viruses | 04:16 |
| Lindisfarne | but yeah other than that | 04:16 |
| Spec_ | that's a lot of speculation tho | 04:16 |
| Lindisfarne | which is? | 04:16 |
| Spec_ | has it been conclusively proven it even emerged in wuhan first? it was certainly recognized there first | 04:17 |
| Lindisfarne | you know chinese virologist zip into moon suits to collect guano in situ, right? | 04:17 |
| IndoAnon | >speculation< if not, what's the purpose of her going to cave? | 04:17 |
| Lindisfarne | yes, show me another outbreak prior to Wuhan | 04:17 |
| Spec_ | what | 04:17 |
| Spec_ | like h1n1 or mers or like any other such jump? | 04:18 |
| Lindisfarne | hang on, are you denying that China locked down due to covid-19 before anyone else? | 04:18 |
| Spec_ | who? | 04:18 |
| Lindisfarne | Spec_ are you familiar with the beginning of this pandemic? | 04:19 |
| Spec_ | yes | 04:19 |
| Lindisfarne | so, which locale had an outbreak prior to Wuhan? | 04:19 |
| Spec_ | oh, none that i know of, it was certainly recognized first in wuhan | 04:19 |
| freerealestate[m | Just because the first identified outbreak was in wuhan doesnt mean it started there. Also it definitely doesnt mean it came from a lab. | 04:19 |
| Lindisfarne | remember, they were welding entire families into their apartments because they refused to quarantine? | 04:19 |
| Lindisfarne | there were videos of it | 04:20 |
| Spec_ | some exits were blocked, i recall, yea | 04:20 |
| Lindisfarne | yeah, so in the absence of China's compliance, that IS the earliest outbreak, and IS the source | 04:20 |
| IndoAnon | freerealestate[m: >Just because the first identified outbreak was in wuhan doesnt mean it started there. Also it definitely doesnt mean it came from a lab. < can you prove that? | 04:20 |
| Lindisfarne | did that happen at Detrick? | 04:20 |
| Spec_ | i mean you can speculate that and make an assumption | 04:20 |
| Spec_ | but i don't think that's 'proof' | 04:20 |
| Lindisfarne | you dont think facts are proof? okay | 04:21 |
| Spec_ | i'm not even sure what your claim is | 04:21 |
| Spec_ | tbh | 04:21 |
| Lindisfarne | feels suddenly like a religious argument | 04:21 |
| Spec_ | what facts are you positing ? | 04:21 |
| Spec_ | i read some of your sentences that just had wild speculation regarding chinese miners | 04:21 |
| Lindisfarne | <Lindisfarne> except that the first patients were chinese | 04:21 |
| Lindisfarne | <Lindisfarne> and there was an outbreak in Wuhan, first, then the rest of the world | 04:21 |
| Lindisfarne | what "wild speculation" | 04:22 |
| Spec_ | that that activity lead to this pandemic, presumably | 04:22 |
| Lindisfarne | clearly you're not up to speed on China's SARS problem | 04:22 |
| Lindisfarne | it's one obvious possible origin | 04:22 |
| IndoAnon | https://nitter.unixfox.eu/NateSilver538/status/1397869883585708034#m | 04:22 |
| Lindisfarne | the only other obvious possible origin is intermediate host | 04:22 |
| Lindisfarne | there's no 3rd origin possible, as far as I'm aware | 04:23 |
| Spec_ | directly from bats? also there are other species it could have gone through, no? like pangolin | 04:23 |
| Lindisfarne | <Lindisfarne> the only other obvious possible origin is intermediate host | 04:23 |
| IndoAnon | Yet, they're unable to find those pangolins | 04:23 |
| Lindisfarne | i feel like you are only reading half of what I type, then challenging me to repost the other part | 04:23 |
| IndoAnon | https://archive.is/mn3ct | 04:25 |
| Lindisfarne | intermediate host has not been ruled out, especially in the context of the market. | 04:25 |
| IndoAnon | >No animals of foreign origin identified in records, late Dec 2019. >No domestic origin cold chain products between Sep-Dec 2019. >No positive animal samples at all in Wuhan markets and upstream suppliers. | 04:25 |
| Lindisfarne | Problematically, the Chinese guy in Washington was before them. | 04:25 |
| freerealestate[m | <Lindisfarne "It was an error to let the Chine"> Anyway, the point is not to prove that the virus did not come from wuhan. It's just that you should be aware of the interests you are serving by believing hateful and, in this case, racist propaganda against china. | 04:25 |
| IndoAnon | >racist | 04:25 |
| IndoAnon | is it about CCP or Chinese people? | 04:26 |
| Lindisfarne | it's neither hateful nor racist to study the origins of a global panedemic, guy | 04:26 |
| IndoAnon | is dr li wen liang being racist? | 04:26 |
| Lindisfarne | But thanks for telling me to ignore you in so many words | 04:26 |
| Lindisfarne | as we say on dating websites when someone asks "what race r u," ching chong ling long peace sign | 04:27 |
| LjL | "racist" is a loaded word, but i'm sure some would say that "It was an error to let the Chinese access modern technology without it going through a modernity revolution" is indeed a vaguely racist sort of statement | 04:27 |
| IndoAnon | unless, you're referring specifically to nation e. g PRC or taiwan, LjL | 04:29 |
| LjL | assuming anyone agrees that those are separate nations or countries or anything | 04:29 |
| LjL | because on paper the UN doesn't, and they also don't | 04:30 |
| Spec_ | i don't think any world power does, eh? | 04:30 |
| Lindisfarne | LjL it feels vaguely racist because you probably don | 04:30 |
| Lindisfarne | don't know the past 150 yrs of history | 04:30 |
| freerealestate[m | It's clearly racist. The sentiment is 'the chinese are not evolved enough to safely use technology'. Even if the claim is that its their culture not their biology thats unevolved its no better | 04:31 |
| Lindisfarne | The authoritarianism led by Mao is still there | 04:31 |
| Lindisfarne | just as superstitious and bizarre, but this has implications for the rest of the world | 04:31 |
| Spec_ | just as superstitious as them evangelicals ya | 04:31 |
| Lindisfarne | of course, if you're not interested in the public health of the globe vis-a-vis preventing pandemics, any criticism of China is de facto racist | 04:32 |
| Lindisfarne | because any authoritarian regime operates solely on one race, or something | 04:32 |
| IndoAnon | would you let children play with heavy machinery? Because i probably won't | 04:32 |
| Spec_ | so it's not really about their modern-ness, but rather their system of governance that is not conducive to proper virology research? | 04:33 |
| Lindisfarne | ask the Tibetans and the Uighurs about that presumption | 04:33 |
| Spec_ | what if the root cause was just leap from guano? how is that different than a leap from farm pigs, or avian? | 04:33 |
| Lindisfarne | Spec_ in China, they silence anyone who doesn't toe the line | 04:33 |
| freerealestate[m | Actually, the US is worse for global health than china. Just look at the historical pollution data. And the nuclear testing. And bombing people is pretty detrimental to their health too. | 04:33 |
| Lindisfarne | there's no such thing as "whistleblower" in culture. | 04:33 |
| Lindisfarne | The operative modality is "The Tall Poppy Gets Cut Down." | 04:33 |
| LjL | i think the last american "whistleblower" is still trying to dodge american justice | 04:34 |
| Spec_ | Lindisfarne: yes but 'whistleblower' in my culture just ends up in jail anyways | 04:34 |
| LjL | may or may not be successful | 04:34 |
| LjL | Spec_, or worse, isn't there possible capital punishment if considered treason? | 04:34 |
| Spec_ | i believe that's been reinstated now, but i'm not sure at federal level | 04:34 |
| LjL | great | 04:34 |
| IndoAnon | Lindisfarne: there's no whistle-blower culture, but mandate of heaven | 04:34 |
| Lindisfarne | So you can easily imagine the prefectural manager of the BSL-3 lab enjoying pangolin stuffed with ferret, or something | 04:35 |
| Spec_ | i could imagine myself enjoying a nice tasty pangolin stuffed with civet | 04:35 |
| Lindisfarne | or an odd mistake, like innoculating a creature then accidentally selling it back for consumption | 04:35 |
| Spec_ | that is very unlikely | 04:35 |
| Lindisfarne | or on purpose | 04:36 |
| freerealestate[m | They handled the actual outbreak better than the US and most european countries. While having less advance notice. So maybe their system of governance is actually better equipt for it??? | 04:36 |
| IndoAnon | Lindisfarne: that happened | 04:36 |
| Spec_ | on purpose also seems unlikely | 04:36 |
| Lindisfarne | sure, it's China. Anything's likely | 04:36 |
| Lindisfarne | why? because Authoritarians are known for Purity of Morals down the chain of command? | 04:36 |
| Spec_ | right, they made some major missteps and blunders, some political face-saving, but most other countries also made severe blunders, perhaps worse | 04:36 |
| freerealestate[m | <Lindisfarne "So you can easily imagine the pr"> "Not racism" | 04:36 |
| Lindisfarne | If the lab manager wants to do whatever he wants to do, he does it | 04:36 |
| Lindisfarne | because anyone who would cry foul can just be disappeared | 04:37 |
| Lindisfarne | it's China | 04:37 |
| Lindisfarne | There's lead and arsenic in their milk, and they still drink it. If you ask why, they say "Of COURSE there's lead in the milk. It's CHINA!" | 04:37 |
| Spec_ | i'm not sure lab managers just reign supreme over in china, but i'm not as knowlegeable about their status in society | 04:37 |
| Lindisfarne | the Chinese know they're oppressed, and they're fine with it, more or less. | 04:37 |
| Lindisfarne | do you think the Prefecture is sending Health Inspectors to admonish him? | 04:38 |
| Lindisfarne | lol | 04:38 |
| LjL | okay, what's in chinese milk i think definitely strays too far from the topic of COVID | 04:38 |
| Spec_ | unless it's covid ofc | 04:38 |
| Lindisfarne | the hyperbuddhist hierarchy means they don't say anything if their boss has a side hustle selling asyptomatic test subjects. | 04:38 |
| Lindisfarne | same as why there's lead in the milk, LjL | 04:39 |
| Spec_ | see, wild speculation | 04:39 |
| Lindisfarne | yes, all possible, however. | 04:39 |
| LjL | hyperbuddhist? | 04:39 |
| Lindisfarne | You can't get away with that at Detrick easily. | 04:39 |
| Spec_ | Lindisfarne: these same things tha tare "possible" can be possible anywhere in the world | 04:39 |
| Lindisfarne | The colonel can't tell the exit search to stand down | 04:39 |
| IndoAnon | Lindisfarne: https://archive.is/r4R0w | 04:39 |
| Lindisfarne | Spec_ nah honestly not really | 04:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +3868 cases (now 4.5 million), +10 deaths (now 127897) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +4289 cases (now 1.7 million), +18 deaths (now 17737) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +4164 cases (now 1.4 million) since 23 hours ago — Sao Tome and Principe: +6 cases (now 2344) since 4 days ago | 04:40 |
| Lindisfarne | fear creates silence anywhere, but there are, even in China, people willing to defy the party | 04:40 |
| Lindisfarne | someone in here mentioned the frontline doc who died | 04:40 |
| IndoAnon | https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab/ >>Add to this China’s history of similar incidents. Even the deadly SARS virus has escaped — twice — from the Beijing lab where it was (and probably is) being used in experiments. Both “man-made” epidemics were quickly contained, but neither would have happened at all if proper safety precautions had been taken. | 04:41 |
| IndoAnon | >And then there is this little-known fact: Some Chinese researchers are in the habit of selling their laboratory animals to street vendors after they have finished experimenting on them. | 04:41 |
| Lindisfarne | https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51403795 | 04:41 |
| LjL | <Lindisfarne> there's no such thing as "whistleblower" in culture. ← and yet, you just linked to a whistleblower dying from COVID | 04:42 |
| LjL | that seems contradictory | 04:43 |
| LjL | what was his culture? | 04:43 |
| Lindisfarne | because he was jailed, that was the point | 04:43 |
| Lindisfarne | for "rumor mongering" | 04:43 |
| Lindisfarne | Jan 1 IIRC | 04:43 |
| LjL | yes, but he still blew the whistle, which counters your claim that they just don't do it by culture | 04:43 |
| Lindisfarne | I mean they silenced him, then he died of it | 04:44 |
| LjL | and he might have been jailed for generating panic in many other countries | 04:44 |
| Lindisfarne | which ones would have done that and not investigated his claims seriously? | 04:44 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: It's recognized as fearmongering, not whistleblowing. We should be respectful to their culture | 04:44 |
| Spec_ | has china produced a good vaccine? | 04:44 |
| LjL | Spec_, not really :P | 04:45 |
| Spec_ | you'd think with all the research they'd have a good head start | 04:45 |
| Spec_ | crazy | 04:45 |
| Lindisfarne | China is good at imitation moreso than innovation, largely as a result of demanding everyone conform | 04:45 |
| Spec_ | maybe they'll get a good mrna soon then | 04:45 |
| Spec_ | IndoAnon: whereas in america 'whistleblowing' is seen as espionage, despite revealing clearly illegal behavior | 04:46 |
| de-facto | BioNTech does collaborate with Fosun Pharma, hence yes the soon will have a good mRNA vaccine too | 04:47 |
| Spec_ | good | 04:47 |
| Spec_ | i assume they have good production capacity | 04:47 |
| Spec_ | did novavax get eua yet? | 04:48 |
| de-facto | i very much hope so, at least they know how to do production | 04:48 |
| IndoAnon | Spec_: yeah... different culture... | 04:48 |
| Spec_ | hrmm looks like it got pushed | 04:48 |
| IndoAnon | Anw, all the junior partners of joint venture has ties to bill gates... | 04:49 |
| IndoAnon | the one that's producing it | 04:49 |
| IndoAnon | I wish i was wrong | 04:50 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/public-health-threats/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/treatments-vaccines/vaccines-covid-19/covid-19-vaccines-under-evaluation#covid-19-vaccines-under-rolling-review-section | 04:50 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ema.europa.eu: COVID-19 vaccines: under evaluation | European Medicines Agency | 04:50 |
| de-facto | Spec_, ^^ so in the pipeline but not approved yet | 04:50 |
| Spec_ | it was supposed to be approved this month as far as i can remember :( | 04:51 |
| IndoAnon | Hmmm, i just read that it probably will be approved september-october this year | 04:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: CDC: Unvaccinated kids at camps can go maskless most of the time outside → https://is.gd/Q0C4U2 | 04:54 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.unicef.org/supply/covid-19-vaccine-market-dashboard a good market overview for the current vaccine future markets for COVID-19 on https://bit.ly/3p0rGWu | 04:55 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.unicef.org: COVID-19 Vaccine Market Dashboard | UNICEF Supply Division | 04:55 |
| IndoAnon | >Germany passes very controversial copyright law. Internet services with user-generated content will be liable for possible copyright infringements by their users from June 7. | 05:00 |
| LjL | that is... bad... but perhaps more suited for ##EU? | 05:01 |
| Lindisfarne | I don't think Bill Gates has nefarious vaccination intent | 05:01 |
| Lindisfarne | he definitely has other issues | 05:01 |
| IndoAnon | Lindisfarne: if he's serious about philanthropy, he could have make the vaccine available, fast | 05:04 |
| Lindisfarne | howso | 05:05 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: yea... but, i hope german in this room prepared too | 05:05 |
| IndoAnon | Lindisfarne: by scaling the operation? | 05:06 |
| Lindisfarne | thats what Operation Warp Speed was about | 05:07 |
| IndoAnon | that's the research part | 05:07 |
| IndoAnon | pardon, i'm talking about the production phase | 05:08 |
| de-facto | yet now they got more than enough money, hence the bottleneck is at different places | 05:09 |
| Lindisfarne | nah it wasnt just research | 05:09 |
| Lindisfarne | they were manufacturing drugs at scale before they knew they were either safe or effective. | 05:09 |
| de-facto | but yeah production capacity is a HUGE problem right now, even now in EU i dont know if or when i will be offered a shot | 05:10 |
| de-facto | not even to start to speak about countries that depend on COVAX etc | 05:11 |
| de-facto | since its a worldwide pandemic the problem is global hence also has to be addressed synchronously and globally, otherwise we will just have alternating vaccine and sars-cov-2 mutant waves just as with other respiratory viruses too | 05:12 |
| Lindisfarne | Biden offered 80 million doses to others | 05:13 |
| de-facto | actually its not about philanthropy at all, its we vs the virus | 05:13 |
| Lindisfarne | US is 50% vaccinated | 05:13 |
| IndoAnon | de-facto: obviously, the finance/accounting team for the company will shriek if they're going ho scale the production facilities by factor of 10. but, Microsoft owner doesn't have that restriction | 05:13 |
| de-facto | we need billions of doses | 05:13 |
| de-facto | they already make billions with their vaccines, i dont think Gates can help with money anymore | 05:14 |
| Lindisfarne | de-facto possibly, but the vaccines appear efficacious against known mutations | 05:14 |
| de-facto | it may have been important at the incubator stage, where millions funding could allow startups to go with their thing because only a small part will make it to a result that is usable | 05:15 |
| Lindisfarne | the other modulating factor is, not all countries have the same problem with the virus. Some have extremely low mortality | 05:16 |
| de-facto | Lindisfarne, for now yes but antigenic drift is a dynamic thing and the more "bruteforce" power is employed (as in viral replications in partly immune selective environments) the higher the probability for further diversification of the phylogenetic tree | 05:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: EU clears Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for adolescents → https://is.gd/a4wTgo | 05:16 |
| IndoAnon | de-facto: they're for-profit company. Of course they're looking for maximum return... despite their moral obligations... which has terrible track record | 05:17 |
| Lindisfarne | right, but just as a head check, you'll notice countries like Tanzania, Laos, and Vietnam with something like .3 deaths / million population | 05:18 |
| de-facto | yeah my point was: a few millions more or less dont make a big difference in their production anymore, just because they are already making billions | 05:18 |
| Lindisfarne | it has to do with neanderthal genetic susceptibility | 05:19 |
| Lindisfarne | US and EU disproportionately affected on that | 05:19 |
| de-facto | i think it has to do with them not allowing the infection numbers to go up as much as many western countries did | 05:19 |
| Lindisfarne | we're talking about the COVAX countries tho | 05:20 |
| de-facto | hence low infections per capita -> even lower fatalities per capita and also optimal treatment available without overloading the healthcare system | 05:20 |
| Lindisfarne | they're not all known to weld people into their homes like China | 05:20 |
| Lindisfarne | DRC is essentially a jungle with mopeds and gasoline | 05:20 |
| de-facto | yeah of course i was thinking about VIetnam etc | 05:20 |
| Lindisfarne | you look at the lowest affected countries | 05:20 |
| Lindisfarne | soo many are african | 05:21 |
| de-facto | although damn, vietnam currently got its biggest outbreak (relative to its very successful containment in the past) | 05:22 |
| Lindisfarne | Eritrea, Uganda, DRC, Burkina Faso, Benin, Niger, Nigeria, South Sudan, Chad, Ivory Coast, Sierra Leone, Liberia | 05:22 |
| IndoAnon | .title https://twitter.com/j_sato/status/1373847957653442562/ | 05:22 |
| Brainstorm | IndoAnon: From twitter.com: error parsing title ('NoneType' object has no attribute 'string') | 05:22 |
| IndoAnon | .title https://nitter.FDR.fr/j_sato/status/1373847957653442562/ | 05:22 |
| Brainstorm | IndoAnon, the URL could not be loaded | 05:22 |
| charade | oh boy | 05:22 |
| de-facto | IndoAnon, i can not read white on almost white background | 05:23 |
| IndoAnon | .title https://nitter.FDn.fr/j_sato/status/1373847957653442562/ | 05:23 |
| de-facto | please dont use color codes | 05:23 |
| IndoAnon | .title https://nitter.cattube.org/j_sato/status/1373847957653442562/ | 05:24 |
| Brainstorm | IndoAnon: From nitter.cattube.org: J Sato (@j_sato): "モナコ公国（人口39千人） ・BCG接種率89% https://who.int/immunization/monitoring_surveillance/data/mco.pdf ・昨年末まで100万人あたりコロナ死100人以下で西欧の中で平穏 ・12/31からファイザーワクチン高速接種開始 https://monaco- [...] | 05:24 |
| IndoAnon | it broke? | 05:24 |
| LjL | what... are you doing | 05:25 |
| IndoAnon | can't load twitter | 05:25 |
| LjL | yeah plese don't post the same thing three times, with colors, just because the bot can't title twitter | 05:27 |
| Lindisfarne | monaco vs japan would imply the neanderthal connection, again | 05:27 |
| Lindisfarne | im not joking https://www.pnas.org/content/118/9/e2026309118 | 05:28 |
| IndoAnon | ehem, 8x spike on death/1M stats | 05:29 |
| Lindisfarne | sad | 05:29 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: uh, ok.... But, it look fine on riot, though | 05:29 |
| LjL | Riot? | 05:30 |
| LjL | isn't that the old name of Element, which is a Matrix client? | 05:30 |
| Lindisfarne | erm, wait | 05:30 |
| LjL | anyway, it doesn't look fine on many people's displays including mine, don't do it | 05:30 |
| Lindisfarne | what 8x spike IndoAnon | 05:30 |
| Lindisfarne | there are currently 8 individuals in Monaco infected. | 05:31 |
| Lindisfarne | eight total. | 05:31 |
| IndoAnon | deaths | 05:31 |
| Lindisfarne | Monaco is doing fine, despite cryptic Japanese tweets | 05:31 |
| Lindisfarne | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/monaco/ | 05:31 |
| IndoAnon | like, from 4 deaths to 32 deaths | 05:31 |
| Lindisfarne | There hasn't been a death in Monaco since April 25th | 05:32 |
| Lindisfarne | on that day, one person died. | 05:32 |
| Lindisfarne | before that was April 9 | 05:32 |
| Lindisfarne | there's really not a problem there. | 05:32 |
| LjL | %cases Monaco | 05:33 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Monaco, there have been 2503 confirmed cases (6.5% of the population) and 32 deaths (1.3% of cases) as of 2 days ago. 51953 tests were performed (4.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 1.3% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Monaco for time series data. | 05:33 |
| IndoAnon | That's considerably low for a central-south-western European country | 05:34 |
| LjL | %cases San Marino | 05:35 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In San Marino, there have been 5089 confirmed cases (15.2% of the population) and 90 deaths (1.8% of cases) as of 4 days ago. 65149 tests were performed (7.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 3.4% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 1.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=San%20Marino for time series data. | 05:35 |
| de-facto | monaco, they have 39,242 citizens all together | 05:36 |
| LjL | obviously my fatality calculations are somehow broken | 05:36 |
| IndoAnon | eh | 05:37 |
| de-facto | always compare cases per capita per time | 05:39 |
| de-facto | for countries with comparable healthcare system and testing strategies ofc | 05:39 |
| LjL | most of Monaco residents are Italian anyway, so I'm not sure how genetics would change anything compared to Italy | 05:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: When and how to suspect Covid-19 associated Mucormycosis → https://is.gd/YQZ35z | 05:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +2360 cases (now 1.1 million), +8 deaths (now 24910) since a day ago — Germany: +121 deaths (now 88401) since 23 hours ago | 06:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Britain approves J&J COVID-19 vaccine, cuts order → https://is.gd/63UxmN | 07:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Santa Catarina, Brazil: +4793 cases (now 963699), +69 deaths (now 15142) since 23 hours ago — Metropolitana, Chile: +3726 cases (now 566129), +50 deaths (now 15312) since 23 hours ago — Antioquia, Colombia: +3566 cases (now 533292), +69 deaths (now 11843) since 23 hours ago — England, United Kingdom: +3280 cases (now 3.9 million), +8 deaths (now 112379) since 23 hours ago | 07:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vietnam detects hybrid of Indian and UK COVID-19 variant → https://is.gd/MaJlAS | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Greece ready to use COVID-19 pass before July to save summer, PM says → https://is.gd/vQpPkK | 07:56 |
| pwr22 | test from matrix portal | 08:28 |
| pwr22 | test from matrix plumbed | 08:28 |
| pwr22 | ha, in both cases I see myself in the other room as being an IRC user called pwr22[m] | 08:29 |
| Peter_R | test plumbed | 08:33 |
| Peter_R | test portal | 08:34 |
| Peter_R | LjL: what does my nick show up as on IRC? | 08:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +173790 cases (now 27.7 million), +4014 deaths (now 322512) since 23 hours ago | 08:36 |
| pwr22 | LjL: nvm, I confirmed it myself | 08:36 |
| pwr22 | /leave | 08:36 |
| pwr22 | 🤦♂️ | 08:36 |
| pwr22 | Ok, left the portal room now so back in the regular plumbed one (after rejoining after bot kicked me 😀) | 08:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vietnam discovers new coronavirus variant with UK, Indian mutations → https://is.gd/AfEw16 | 08:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | May 29, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/OgfUyf | 09:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: U.S. movie theaters remove mask mandate for vaccinated people → https://is.gd/MIwnSQ | 09:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: U.S. agency says employers can mandate COVID-19 vaccination → https://is.gd/rtX8SC | 09:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 45k Covid-19 cases/day in Delhi: IIT warns Delhi to be ready for worst-case scenario | Delhi News - Times of India → https://is.gd/I5GcTG | 10:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Arunachal Pradesh, India: +497 cases (now 26317), +2 deaths (now 111) since a day ago — Sikkim, India: +420 cases (now 14634), +3 deaths (now 243) since a day ago | 10:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Vaccine mandate unleashes a mob in a small Polish town → https://is.gd/ZfLKAJ | 10:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Taiwan: +491 cases (now 7806), +21 deaths (now 99) since a day ago | 11:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Rutte announces end of Netherlands lockdown: Dutch prime minister predicts vaccine campaign will bring more improvements — but summer will not be 'completely normal.' → https://is.gd/I6OvSg | 11:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Neighbourhood in south China under lockdown after fresh virus outbreak: A neighbourhood in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou has been locked down as officials rush to quell an uptick in cases in the area. → https://is.gd/BrWlx5 | 12:12 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Indonesia: +6565 cases (now 1.8 million), +162 deaths (now 50262) since 23 hours ago | 12:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA SALUTE - ORDINANZA 28 maggio 2021: Ulteriori misure urgenti in materia di contenimento e gestionedell'emergenza epidemiologica da COVID-19 nelle RegioniFriuli-Venezia Giulia, Molise e Sardegna. (21A03392) → https://is.gd/5vwFZb | 12:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: First case of B.1.617 Covid-19 variant found in Pakistan → https://is.gd/Ipj6Q8 | 13:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +4311 cases (now 553422), +116 deaths (now 7163) since 23 hours ago | 13:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +9020 cases (now 558534), +98 deaths (now 2650) since a day ago | 13:59 |
| pwr22 | Hmm, apparently there's a lot of misinformation being spread over WhatsApp in India and so the government wants to snoop on peoples messages | 14:26 |
| vaio | it seems whatsapp is suing the indian govt for that reason ? https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/25/technology/whatsapp-india-lawsuit.html | 14:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +1043 cases (now 797386), +38 deaths (now 12549) since 23 hours ago | 14:36 |
| pwr22 | Hmm, I can hear loads of car honking in the distance which is very unusual | 14:43 |
| pwr22 | Wonder if it's another rally blocking all the streets again | 14:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid 'created by scientists who tried to cover tracks', claims study as UK helps US probe → https://is.gd/NAY0zF | 15:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The UK's Permanent Representative to the UN announces further investigation into Covid's man made origins → https://is.gd/ZpgS06 | 15:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bhutan: +100 cases (now 1603) since 22 hours ago — Switzerland: +4 deaths (now 10805) since 14 hours ago | 15:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: What couples taking IVF treatment need to know about taking the Covid jabs → https://is.gd/mXEQlX | 15:47 |
| ZdrytchX | !help | 16:55 |
| -CovBot[m]- You can message me any of these commands: | 16:55 | |
| -CovBot[m]- !cases location - Get up to date info on cases, optionally in a specific location. You can give a country code, country, state, county, region or city. E.g. !cases china | 16:55 | |
| -CovBot[m]- !compare locations - Compare up to date info on cases in multiple locations.If it looks bad on mobile try rotating into landscape mode. Separate the locations with semicolons (;). You can give a country codes, countries, states, counties, regions or cities. E.g. !compare cn;us;uk;it;de | 16:55 | |
| -CovBot[m]- !risk age - For a person of the given age, what is is the risk to them if they become sick with COVID-19? | 16:55 | |
| -CovBot[m]- !source - Find out about my data sources and developers. | 16:55 | |
| -CovBot[m]- !help - Get a reminder what I can do for you. | 16:55 | |
| ZdrytchX | !cases perth australia | 16:56 |
| -CovBot[m]- My data doesn't seem to include perth australia. It might be under a different name, data on it might not be available or there could even be no cases. You may have more luck if you try a less specific location, like the country it's in. | 16:56 | |
| -CovBot[m]- If you think I should have data on it you can open an issue at https://github.com/pwr22/covbot/issues and Peter will take a look. | 16:56 | |
| ZdrytchX | !cases 61 | 16:56 |
| -CovBot[m]- My data doesn't seem to include 61. It might be under a different name, data on it might not be available or there could even be no cases. You may have more luck if you try a less specific location, like the country it's in. | 16:56 | |
| -CovBot[m]- If you think I should have data on it you can open an issue at https://github.com/pwr22/covbot/issues and Peter will take a look. | 16:56 | |
| ZdrytchX | !cases western australia | 16:56 |
| -CovBot[m]- In Western Australia, Australia there have been a total of 1,017 cases as of 2021-05-29 14:20:03 UTC. Of these 1,008 (99.1%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 0 (0.0%) have definitely recovered and 9 (0.9%) have died. | 16:56 | |
| ZdrytchX | wait, total cases? 99% still sick? nah that cant be right lol | 16:57 |
| ZdrytchX | !cases china | 16:57 |
| -CovBot[m]- In China there have been a total of 91,061 cases as of 2021-05-29 14:21:00 UTC. Of these 318 (0.3%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 86,107 (94.6%) have definitely recovered and 4,636 (5.1%) have died. | 16:57 | |
| ZdrytchX | !cases new york | 16:59 |
| -CovBot[m]- In New York, United States there have been a total of 2,151,753 cases as of 2021-05-29 14:21:00 UTC. Of these 2,098,198 (97.5%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 0 (0.0%) have definitely recovered and 53,555 (2.5%) have died. | 16:59 | |
| ZdrytchX | !cases melbourne | 17:00 |
| -CovBot[m]- My data doesn't seem to include melbourne. It might be under a different name, data on it might not be available or there could even be no cases. You may have more luck if you try a less specific location, like the country it's in. | 17:00 | |
| -CovBot[m]- If you think I should have data on it you can open an issue at https://github.com/pwr22/covbot/issues and Peter will take a look. | 17:00 | |
| ZdrytchX | !cases victoria | 17:00 |
| -CovBot[m]- In Victoria, Australia there have been a total of 20,587 cases as of 2021-05-29 14:20:03 UTC. Of these 19,767 (96.0%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 0 (0.0%) have definitely recovered and 820 (4.0%) have died. | 17:00 | |
| ZdrytchX | !cases earth | 17:01 |
| -CovBot[m]- My data doesn't seem to include earth. It might be under a different name, data on it might not be available or there could even be no cases. You may have more luck if you try a less specific location, like the country it's in. | 17:01 | |
| -CovBot[m]- If you think I should have data on it you can open an issue at https://github.com/pwr22/covbot/issues and Peter will take a look. | 17:01 | |
| ZdrytchX | !risk 25 | 17:01 |
| -CovBot[m]- I estimate a 25 year old patient sick with COVID-19 has a 100.0% chance of survival, a 8.4% likelihood of needing to go to hospital, a 1.2% risk of needing intensive care there and a 0.0% chance of death. | 17:01 | |
| ZdrytchX | !case 35 | 17:01 |
| ZdrytchX | !cases 40 | 17:02 |
| -CovBot[m]- My data doesn't seem to include 40. It might be under a different name, data on it might not be available or there could even be no cases. You may have more luck if you try a less specific location, like the country it's in. | 17:02 | |
| -CovBot[m]- If you think I should have data on it you can open an issue at https://github.com/pwr22/covbot/issues and Peter will take a look. | 17:02 | |
| ZdrytchX | !risk 40 | 17:02 |
| -CovBot[m]- I estimate a 40 year old patient sick with COVID-19 has a 99.6% chance of survival, a 17.8% likelihood of needing to go to hospital, a 5.3% risk of needing intensive care there and a 0.4% chance of death. | 17:02 | |
| ZdrytchX | !risk 55 | 17:02 |
| -CovBot[m]- I estimate a 55 year old patient sick with COVID-19 has a 98.7% chance of survival, a 27.2% likelihood of needing to go to hospital, a 9.5% risk of needing intensive care there and a 1.3% chance of death. | 17:02 | |
| ZdrytchX | !risk 90 | 17:02 |
| -CovBot[m]- I estimate a 90 year old patient sick with COVID-19 has a 84.1% chance of survival, a 49.2% likelihood of needing to go to hospital, a 19.1% risk of needing intensive care there and a 15.9% chance of death. | 17:02 | |
| ZdrytchX | @source | 17:03 |
| ZdrytchX | !source | 17:03 |
| -CovBot[m]- I was created by Peter Roberts and MIT licensed on Github at https://github.com/pwr22/covbot. I fetch new data every 15 minutes from http://offloop.net/covid19h/unconfirmed.csv, https://www.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/content/items/ca796627a2294c51926865748c4a56e8/data, https://www.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/content/items/b684319181f94875a6879bbc833ca3a6/data and https://w3qa5ydb4l.execute-api.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/prod/finnishCoronaData/v2. Risk | 17:03 | |
| -CovBot[m]- estimates are based on the model at https://www.desmos.com/calculator/v0zif7tflm. | 17:03 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +88 deaths (now 88409) since 20 hours ago | 17:05 |
| de-facto | uhm CovBot[m] is broadcasting the notice to everyone not only the one that asks for it | 17:13 |
| de-facto[m] | Peter: can you take a look into that? | 17:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vietnam detects hybrid of Indian and UK COVID-19 variants → https://is.gd/2NaMlq | 17:23 |
| LjL | de-facto: on Matrix it's normal for bots to respond with notices and not with messages. In fact that was why notices were created on IRC too initially (so that bots couldn't start going in a loop with each other, as they would only respond to messages, with notices) but then pretty much everybody ignored the standard | 17:59 |
| LjL | So they aren't really broadcast, it's just a notice to the channel instead of a privmsg to the channel | 17:59 |
| LjL | The other thing is that it sends multiple lines for some commands, which may be fine on Matrix but is not really great on IRC :/ | 17:59 |
| Blankspace | Hey | 18:00 |
| LjL | But some of the users I quickly scrolled above were abusing the not anyway... If you want !help and then to test out every single feature, or check out various age ranges, etc, you do that in PM, not in the channel | 18:00 |
| LjL | Which is equally true for Brainstorm | 18:01 |
| Blankspace | The cough still persists | 18:01 |
| Blankspace | In the lungs | 18:01 |
| de-facto | Hey Blankspace welcome on Libera :) | 18:01 |
| darsie | . | 18:02 |
| Blankspace | Hey thanks. | 18:02 |
| de-facto | LjL, oh ok i thought a normal message response would be for the whole channel, e.g. to show others in a discussion some stats or such and a notice could be a way to privately respond only to a single user requesting something from a bot | 18:03 |
| de-facto | because normal message response also would appear in chatlogs hence make them consistent | 18:03 |
| de-facto | Blankspace, feeling better already? | 18:03 |
| Blankspace | Fever has gone but there s still cough in lungs. | 18:04 |
| de-facto | may need some time to recover, yet if fever is gone that is a good sign i guess :) | 18:05 |
| de-facto | still investing into good health (good eat, sleep, moderate activity, expose skin to direct sunlight etc) may support recovery | 18:06 |
| Blankspace | Yes. Thanks. | 18:08 |
| de-facto | i hear numbers are slowly going down in India, is that true? | 18:08 |
| de-facto | e.g. https://www.covid19india.org/ with the "Daily" button | 18:09 |
| Blankspace | As per govt data it is going down | 18:10 |
| de-facto | good thing is also the positivity rate for testing is going down, back in the maximum it was like 1 case every 4 tests now its more like 1 case every 10 tests | 18:11 |
| de-facto | at least according to that site there (afaik collected by community from local official sources) | 18:11 |
| LjL | de-facto, if notices don't appear in the chatlog, that's client-specific behavior. unfortunately since notices weren't often used for the original purpose, some clients started behaving oddly with them... | 18:13 |
| LjL | de-facto, but if pwr22 makes the bot respond as messages, i can guarantee people on the Matrix side will complain, because *that* is frowned upon on Matrix (because by using notices, people can selectively ignore bots, there is an option for that) | 18:14 |
| LjL | so the only half-solution i'm afraid would be to quiet CovBot on the IRC side, and quiet Brainstorm on the Matrix side, and let people use the right bot for each place | 18:14 |
| LjL | (maybe that's how the old channel was set up after some point, actually) | 18:14 |
| LjL | (well, no) | 18:15 |
| de-facto | yeah makes sense | 18:15 |
| de-facto | btw your messages are not appearing on matrix side for me | 18:15 |
| LjL | hmm, probably because it's still recovering from the netsplit. CovBot isn't even here | 18:15 |
| de-facto | yeah hopefully it will recover from netsplit fully in a while | 18:16 |
| LjL | we can't complain too much, after all the bridge isn't even actually official yet :P | 18:16 |
| LjL | we were DARING and tried it anyway | 18:16 |
| de-facto | yeah indeed hehe :) | 18:17 |
| de-facto | users already profiting from the very newest opportunities technically available | 18:17 |
| de-facto | Blankspace, how is vaccination campaign progressing at your place there? | 18:21 |
| de-facto | any vaccines available for satisfying the demand? | 18:21 |
| Blankspace | I am not sure. There's our own indigenous covishield and covaxin | 18:23 |
| Blankspace | And then there's sputnik supplies | 18:24 |
| Blankspace | I think around 35 percent population have at least got one dose | 18:27 |
| de-facto | nice so its progressing then | 18:28 |
| LjL | Blankspace, how long ago did your COVID symptoms start? | 18:29 |
| de-facto | probably depends on the location according to https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations its more like 12% for overall India | 18:29 |
| LjL | de-facto, the central government has basically told the states to do things on their own, a while ago | 18:30 |
| LjL | i want to add a :\ to that although i'm not sure it's actually worse | 18:30 |
| Arsanerit | I understood from the website of the German foreign office that entering Südtirol requires both a form/registration for the Italian government and one for the Südtirol government. | 18:31 |
| LjL | sigh | 18:31 |
| LjL | maybe if you're Italian you can't enter at all though :P | 18:31 |
| LjL | it was the case a while ago | 18:32 |
| Arsanerit | I'm considering to enter after 12 July, if the situation allows it. | 18:32 |
| Arsanerit | That's two weeks after my second dose. | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +16 deaths (now 25428) since 22 hours ago | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: Early appearance of two distinct genomic lineages of SARS-CoV-2 in different Wuhan wildlife markets suggests SARS-CoV-2 has a natural origin: Response on the Origin of SARS-CoV-2 Those who know of the longtime proximity and collaboration between Bob Garry and myself will not find it surprising that I concur with [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/gxT4wA | 18:50 |
| pwr22 | de-factode-facto https://github.com/pwr22/covbot/blob/e1cb9f24ce52f028e68df9d44c819753165f1cac/covbot/bot.py#L318 is the sort of problem. I'll need to update it for the libera bridge | 18:57 |
| pwr22 | If it gets too annoying in the meantime then just kick ban it for now | 18:58 |
| pwr22 | ZdrytchX: I wouldn't put too much stock in that risk model now without looking up if it's still relevant. I added it on request a long time ago now | 18:58 |
| pwr22 | Guest5583: test | 19:06 |
| Guest5583 | @pwr22: test | 19:07 |
| de-facto | pwr22, interesting is that a polynominal approximation to some experimental data? | 19:08 |
| de-facto | hmm still no responses on the matrix side | 19:09 |
| Guest5583 | pwr22: test | 19:09 |
| de-facto | mayybe we need to wait more? | 19:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Portugal: +609 cases (now 848213) since a day ago | 19:10 |
| Arsanerit | How scarce is Comirnaty® in the UK? | 19:10 |
| Arsanerit | Are they still vaccinating almost only with Vaxzevria®? | 19:10 |
| Arsanerit | ourworldindata vaccine usage does not include data for the UK | 19:10 |
| de-facto[m] | Peter: there were some netsplits on libera, mabye the bridge still needs some time to recover | 19:10 |
| de-facto[m] | not sure but i dont see messages from irc appearing here (yet) | 19:10 |
| de-facto[m] | LjL also responded in IRC | 19:10 |
| pwr22 | Seems like my messages here (matrix) are coming in on IRC but IRC messages aren't coming into matrix | 19:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Food & Wine: Restaurants ready as Poland lifts more pandemic restrictions → https://is.gd/NLFRb1 | 19:12 |
| Arsanerit | wine? | 19:14 |
| * LjL-Matrix uploaded an image: (685KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/nSJLLcMuiizTAfgOQldzfVDq/IMG_20210529_192904_HDR.jpg > | 19:29 | |
| LjL-Matrix | A 3M Aura mask... Just thrown on the ground like that | 19:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +3348 cases (now 4.2 million), +83 deaths (now 126002) since a day ago — Germany: +96 deaths (now 88417) since 22 hours ago | 19:35 |
| jacklsw | some humans are pests | 19:36 |
| Blankspace | How | 19:37 |
| LjL-Matrix | And it's definitely not the first mask I see thrown on the sidewalk like that... Just the first *expensive* one | 19:37 |
| Guest5583 | pwr22: test | 19:42 |
| pwr22 | Guest5583: test | 19:42 |
| pwr22 | Hey, looks like the bridge is currently working both ways again | 19:43 |
| LjL | pwr22, i don't think the bridge itself broke, it was probably due to the netsplit... yesterday too i saw that when i first started the bridge, it let everyone slowly join before it started actually relaying messages. maybe it's one of the changes that staff requested. | 20:29 |
| de-facto | .links sanger | 20:46 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, Sorry, nothing found. Try with broader keywords | 20:46 |
| LjL | de-facto, hmm, i probably didn't add it because it's very UK-specific, but since only the UK sequences so much, maybe it's deserved | 20:56 |
| LjL | de-facto, by the way, after June 3, here also everyone over 18 can get vaccinated | 20:58 |
| LjL | since i am due for June 5 i hope it won't already be crammed full of people :+ | 20:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Pfizer jab less effective, still protects against Indian strain: study: The Pfizer vaccine is slightly less effective but appears to still protect against the more transmissible Indian strain of the virus that causes COVID-19, according to a study by France's Pasteur Institute. → https://is.gd/n6BSAd | 21:09 |
| de-facto | yeah here they say also at June 7th everyone can apply for a vaccination | 21:11 |
| de-facto | but there are no slots available, hence its practically unknown when a vaccine will be available | 21:11 |
| LjL | well i'm glad i managed to book my slot before it was officially open | 21:12 |
| de-facto | its all elections campaign i dont want to start to rant again, but i am not very pleased by the way management "handles" all this | 21:12 |
| LjL | i bet if i had waited another 2 hours until midnight, instead of getting it on 5 june, i'd have gotten 5 july or wose | 21:12 |
| LjL | worse* | 21:12 |
| de-facto | yeah | 21:12 |
| Arsanerit | And that's just the first dose? | 21:15 |
| de-facto | i more or less have given up already with my hope to get a vaccination offer soon | 21:16 |
| de-facto | maybe it still will be possible in 2021, who knows | 21:16 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, yeah i don't know where i'll get the second dose, they gave me a date range, and unfortunately i won't be able to choose a date or a time, it will be automatic | 21:16 |
| LjL | i really wish i could choose a time range, just like i could for the first dose... | 21:16 |
| LjL | also i wish i could choose a vaccine, but that's rare :P yet, in Latium they apparently let you choose | 21:17 |
| Arsanerit | Here the second dose appointment is automatically six weeks after the first dose (in case of Comirnaty®). | 21:19 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, well, they gave me ranges for AZ *and* different ranges for BNT (and a note that if i get J&J i won't need a second dose :P) - because i won't know what it will be until i'm there | 21:19 |
| Arsanerit | They told me what vaccine when they confirmed my appointments. | 21:20 |
| LjL | yeah, that would be nice. i'm really annoyed that they keep is "secret" | 21:21 |
| LjL | it's a way to exert psychological pressure on people | 21:21 |
| LjL | because once you're there, it's hard to say "no" and walk away | 21:22 |
| LjL | but because of the way i am, honestly, that makes me MORE likely to say "no" if they say i can't get Pfizer | 21:22 |
| LjL | i don't like to be coerced | 21:22 |
| Arsanerit | The regular vaccination programme here uses only mRNA vaccines now. | 21:29 |
| Arsanerit | Vaxzevria® is available on request outside of the regular vaccination programme. | 21:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +66 deaths (now 88429) since 22 hours ago | 21:39 |
| Timvde | Here, we're not giving AZ and J&J to people aged 40 or younger anymore | 21:46 |
| Timvde | It'll delay our campaign by weeks :/ | 21:46 |
| pwr22 | Timvde: whereabouts are you? | 21:47 |
| Timvde | Belgium | 21:48 |
| pwr22 | Ah, it's a bit odd since afaik the blood clot risk is still less than with covid itself anyway | 21:48 |
| de-facto | age dependent afaik | 21:50 |
| de-facto | both IFR and blood clot risk | 21:50 |
| pwr22 | I have a bruise where I had my most recent astrazeneca jab a week ago, like a yellow old one I mean | 21:51 |
| pwr22 | Don't think I had that the first time | 21:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vietnam identifies new, highly transmissible variant of coronavirus → https://is.gd/zqnDvL | 21:51 |
| pwr22 | Don't seem to be having any other bleeding issues or anything though so I'm hopefully ok | 21:51 |
| de-facto | and since IFR increases (exponentially with age) as well as blood clot risk (probably?) decreases with age the quotient of benefit vs risk is double dependent on age | 21:52 |
| Timvde | pwr22: definitely, it doesn't make sense mathematically | 21:53 |
| pwr22 | <de-facto "and since IFR increases (exponen"> I think the UK published figures saying even for over 30s covid is worse | 21:53 |
| Arsanerit | Is it true that the adenovirus vaccines work very poorly against B.1.617L | 21:53 |
| pwr22 | Since it significantly increases clotting potential? | 21:53 |
| Arsanerit | Is it true that the adenovirus vaccines work very poorly against B.1.617? | 21:53 |
| pwr22 | Arsanerit: afaik the jury is still out on exactly which vaccines work well against which variants | 21:54 |
| Arsanerit | Why are UK cases rising? | 21:54 |
| pwr22 | mRNA ones may work slightly better in general | 21:54 |
| pwr22 | Arsanerit: it could be it resists the vaccines more, it could be we're catching more cases of it in the testing. It's concerning for sure though | 21:55 |
| de-facto | idk we will see that on the long term | 21:55 |
| de-facto | the measurements of just antibody titer is not sufficient because it only takes out that one specific antibody (that binds to that test) out of all the spectrum the immune system may have raised | 21:56 |
| de-facto | so neutralization assays may give a better picture | 21:56 |
| de-facto | and ofc in vivo breakthrough data will be the real benchmark on longterm | 21:56 |
| de-facto | hence my curiosity about the age dependent vaccine prevalence and its impact on shaping the mutation spectrum of breakthrough cases (in comparison to the non-vaccinated control group that still might be available for some time as reference) | 21:57 |
| pwr22 | The UK gov has claimed (last week) that the vaccines seem to work at the indian variant but I doubt they have any credible evidence on that | 21:57 |
| finely[m] | <LjL "but because of the way i am, hon"> The British trials early results seem to be stronger immunity with mixed vaccines. AZ first, Pfizer second may be better than two Pfizer jabs. | 22:00 |
| LjL | finely[m], there is practically no chance that if i get an AZ jab, the second jab would be Pfizer though. the way these things usually go, they'd want to make a trial in Italy before going with a concept like that, and that sort of trial is kind of in progress, but it's not going to happen for people who already have a vaccine scheduled | 22:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): COVID19: Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime! → https://is.gd/fkADLY | 22:02 |
| finely[m] | <pwr22 "I think the UK published figures"> It really depends on the chance of you catching COVID. I wish health authorities published the math used to make these recommendations. | 22:03 |
| pwr22 | finely: I just had my second AZ ☹️ | 22:03 |
| genera_ | \o/ | 22:03 |
| de-facto | genera_, how are you? | 22:04 |
| pwr22 | > https://is.gd/fkADLY -> how can we say that? We've only had it around for a year or so | 22:04 |
| de-facto | with pride? :D | 22:05 |
| genera_ | surprisingly fine | 22:05 |
| de-facto | nice to hear genera_ :) | 22:05 |
| de-facto | arm still hurting? | 22:06 |
| genera_ | i dont try° | 22:06 |
| genera_ | ya i can feel it | 22:06 |
| finely[m] | <pwr22 "finely: I just had my second AZ "> Yay for you. Now we know how to diagnose the clotting early and treat it, death are going down. Probably far more likely to have severe consequence from COVID. So I wouldn't be unhappy to be vaccinated myself. 🙂 | 22:07 |
| genera_ | i wait for the headaches :-) | 22:07 |
| genera_ | i think the second AZ is un-dangerous? | 22:08 |
| pwr22 | <finely[m] "Yay for you. Now we know how to "> Sure, I just would have taken a pfizer if I could have had it | 22:09 |
| pwr22 | Why not be a guinea pig 😀 | 22:09 |
| pwr22 | genera_: I hope so too! Which one did you have? | 22:09 |
| genera_ | biontech | 22:10 |
| genera_ | got told about 5 minutes before | 22:10 |
| pwr22 | Yeah we don't get told what we're getting | 22:10 |
| pwr22 | Till we're there | 22:10 |
| genera_ | but then again i can read what gets delivered and what not | 22:10 |
| genera_ | (it is bionetech country here) | 22:12 |
| de-facto | well BNT and AZ and modeRNA and JJJ https://impfdashboard.de/ | 22:15 |
| de-facto | and soon CureVac? | 22:19 |
| de-facto | we will see ... thay apparently have some issues with collecting enough infecitons because incidence went down in Germany | 22:19 |
| de-facto | *they | 22:19 |
| * de-facto keeps fingers crossed for them | 22:20 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Brazilians staged protests against President Jair Bolsonaro's handling ofthe COVID-19 pandemic in at least 16 cities across the country, carrying signs such as "Out with Bolsonaro" and"Impeachment now." Bolsonaro's popularity has plummeted during the coronavirus crisis → https://is.gd/UUO0kj | 22:23 |
| Arsanerit | How do they find volunteers for trials when most people are going to be vaccinated regularly? | 22:34 |
| Arsanerit | I'd have volunteered in 2020, but not in 2021 if that means refraining a jab with an already approved vaccine. | 22:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Uganda: +700 cases (now 45931), +1 deaths (now 362) since a day ago | 22:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Somaliland: +662 cases (now 4608), +64 deaths (now 311) since 26 days ago | 23:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Vietnam Detects New Highly Transmissible Coronavirus Variant: Vietnam's health ministry announced the discovery of the new variant on Saturday that has characteristics of two other strains. The country is currently dealing with a recent spike in infections. → https://is.gd/urG0dt | 23:16 |
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