libera/##covid-19/ Thursday, 2021-06-03

BrainstormUpdates for South Africa: +5782 cases (now 1.7 million), +110 deaths (now 56711) since 5 hours ago00:00
finely[m]<ReGiStRaS "immunity it says. But we are sti"> And they are not dying or getting severe disease.00:21
BrainstormUpdates for Bulgaria: +197 cases (now 419010), +21 deaths (now 17747) since 6 hours ago00:38
lonelyoptimistIs there any physician in this channel? I need some urgent advice for my sister. I suspect she's having sepsis but the doctors she has consulted so far in this country is diagnosing her with sepsis. Her blood pressure remains low and now her heart rate is fluctuating too, going from around 40 to over 100 beats per minute.01:14
lonelyoptimistIt's been 30 days since symptoms showed up. This is post covid complications I guess.01:15
lonelyoptimistHer LDH (measured a day before yesterday) is 712.6 U/L01:16
lonelyoptimistCorrection: Doctors here aren't diagnosing her with sepsis. Aren't even entertaining the idea because according to them "fever is necessary"01:17
lonelyoptimistI'm desperate, which is why I'm writing here. I know the mortality rate in sepsis is high. I don't want to lose my sister. I'd really appreciate your help. I don't know what to do.01:18
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dTallonelyoptimist: this is not a good place to seek medical advice01:57
dTalI am sorry to hear about your sister and I wish I were qualified to help01:58
dTalthere are many knowledgable people here but I don't think anyone's qualified to give acute care advice or diagnoses01:59
dTalhaving said that, 30 days does not sound like sepsis02:00
dTal40-100 beats per minute is approximately my daily range of heart rate, so that doesn't sound too extreme by itself.02:03
dTalNo fever is a good sign02:03
dTalIt's not unusual for people to not feel themselves for a while after a serious infection - if she's been stable for 30 days, she's probably not in any immediate danger. The best thing you can do is keep a close eye out for any sudden changes02:07
lonelyoptimistdTal, thank you for your reply! Sorry for late response, I was away from the laptop02:27
lonelyoptimistI feel a bit relieved after reading your reply. Maybe she's not in immediate danger and she'll recover slowly. It's just that her blood pressure goes down suddenly to dangerous levels. I read that covid is causing sepsis, and that mild sepsis can progress to severe sepsis. Her symptoms matched the ones mentioned on mayoclinic. Which made me worry because her LDH levels are increasing.02:31
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LjL<CoronaBot> /r/coronavirus: ‘Our society is totally nuts’: Fauci emails lift lid on life in eye of the Covid storm | US news (1004 votes)04:03
LjL<CoronaBot> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/01/anthony-fauci-emails-covid-coronavirus | https://redd.it/nqiny204:03
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LjLsome leaked emails apparently04:03
LjLthe article itself doesn't say much04:03
LjLlonelyoptimist, i just scrolled up and saw what you wrote. i don't know why you're thinking of sepsis, but i don't know much about sepsis, and i'm definitely not a medical doctor, and unfortunately even a medical doctor couldn't legally give you advice here04:05
LjLwe can... sort of reason about things, as lay people04:05
LjLi will also say that 40 to 100 isn't an absurd range for heartrate, but i would add that's as long as 40 is during like deep sleep, and 100 during activity04:05
LjLif it just very quickly swings between 40 and 100, that's not really right imo04:05
lonelyoptimistLjL: Thanks for your reply! I suspect it's covid because she has all the symptoms mentioned on mayoclinic website: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/sepsis/symptoms-causes/syc-2035121404:09
lonelyoptimistAnd her heart rate is going down to 40 while she's awake.04:10
lonelyoptimistShould I start looking for hospitals that can take her and admit to ICU?04:10
lonelyoptimistIt's just that I'm worried she'll get reinfected once in hospital. It's also difficult to find any hospitals that have vacancy in this country.04:11
xrogaanyou should check with a professional.04:29
xrogaanI don't know where you live, but usually you should be able to pickup the phone and call a hotline.04:29
xrogaanor simply phone your general practitioner.04:30
xrogaan> I suspect she's having sepsis but the doctors she has consulted so far in this country is diagnosing her with sepsis.04:31
xrogaanwhat are they diagnosing her with if not sepsis? :P04:31
LjLxrogaan, they forgot a not04:31
xrogaanyes04:32
LjLlonelyoptimist, if you mean the first three symptoms listed, they are quite generic imo04:32
LjLthey might be the set that a doctor will consider if *already suspecting* sepsis04:32
LjLand if the mental status is clearly altered04:32
LjLcan she not think clearly at all?04:32
xrogaancovid has flu-like symptoms, no?04:32
xrogaanIt gets worse after.04:33
lonelyoptimistI am trying. None of the doctors she consulted are able to diagnose her properly. They are just recommending multivitamins. She's already been taking them.04:33
lonelyoptimistThis country has a dearth of good doctors.04:33
lonelyoptimistyeah she is unable to think clearly.04:33
LjLxrogaan, it's been 30 days apparently, the symptoms should be gone04:33
LjLlonelyoptimist, keep in mind that reinfection is a low-probability event04:34
xrogaanLjL: not for the long form.04:34
lonelyoptimist30 days since the symptoms started showing up. It was 29th april. Her fever subsided on the 8th of May.04:34
xrogaanat least, not completely.04:34
LjLxrogaan, well yeah so she has some type of long-covid that sounds potentially life-threatening04:35
LjLi think there's a lot of difference between heartrate changing between 40 and 100 during the course of a day, and changing suddenly while blood pressure is also not under control and mental status is altered04:35
LjLlike a big difference and one that should normally get you a lot of medical attention04:35
LjLbut india is swamped04:36
lonelyoptimistI was trying to avoid saying India but you got that right. haha04:36
LjLlonelyoptimist, everyone can see it from your IP address04:36
xrogaanlonelyoptimist: your IP isn't hidden04:36
lonelyoptimistOh, I'm new to this irc chat04:37
xrogaanwe can figure that out.04:37
LjLxrogaan, anyway i said that reinfection is low-probability in the context of "should i take her to a hospital where she risks getting covid again"04:37
xrogaansure.04:37
LjLlonelyoptimist, it's fine, we don't care, we want people to be well04:37
LjLbut you can get a cloak for your IP in #libera-cloak if you want04:37
LjL(staff always warn that they don't hide your address effectively, but it's something)04:37
xrogaanIf she hasn't received a viral test, try to get one. Otherwise, it may be something else — anything else.04:38
xrogaanWe're also answering on the basis that you're absolutely certain of your diagnostic, while you're likely not trained in the field.04:40
LjLmy advice would be, if you have money, pay money. not the desperate sort of money people pay to strange pseudo-doctors, but just get her to the best hospital with a good reputation that you can afford04:40
lonelyoptimistshe tested positive for covid in the first week of May. Had both rapid antigen as well as RTPCR04:40
BrainstormUpdates for Paraguay: +3196 cases (now 361440), +103 deaths (now 9396) since 10 hours ago — Costa Rica: +2319 cases (now 323598), +24 deaths (now 4098) since 10 hours ago — Algeria: +422 cases (now 129640), +10 deaths (now 3490) since 10 hours ago — Guyana: +143 cases (now 17257), +5 deaths (now 396) since 10 hours ago04:40
LjLwell it would be interesting to see if she *still* tests positive, but it probably wouldn't say anything conclusive04:41
lonelyoptimistyeah she got tested again on 24th may, it was negative04:42
lonelyoptimistSo I guess I should start searching for hospitals that are accepting patients04:43
lonelyoptimistI wish there was a way to consult doctors from US or Europe. They know a lot more than doctors in this country and take symptoms seriously.04:44
LjLlonelyoptimist, are there other symptoms apart from the ones you listed and the ones on mayoclinic? also i would say that LDH at 700 deserves immediate medical attention regardless04:44
LjLlonelyoptimist, "heh", actually there are sites where you can small fees to consult with doctors online, but... in my experience, most of the doctors on those sites are from india :P04:45
xrogaanGovernment here had a hotline which you could call in and describe your ailments.04:48
xrogaanAs a public service.04:49
xrogaanSo to keep people from moving about and potentially spreading the disease.04:49
LjLwell with someone in that sort of situation, here, i'd definitely call an ambulance and they'd almost definitely come with sirens and stuff04:49
LjLbut that might not have been the case when Lombardy's healthcare system was totally swamped04:50
lonelyoptimistYeah LDH at 700 seems to be emergency. But guess what? A doctor that my dad reached out to for consultation said "dont worry, it'll be an emergency once this number doubles or triple" WTF04:50
LjL...04:50
LjLso let's just wait?04:50
lonelyoptimistAnother doctor wasn't even listening to her. He said stop googling around. And proceeded to give her multivitamins.04:51
LjLi *think* that waiting until things become a full-blown emergency should probably be frowned upon04:51
lonelyoptimistYeah04:51
LjLwho prescribed an LDH test, and what did that one doctor say about it?04:51
lonelyoptimistThat's not something I'd do. It could become life-threatening in minutes04:51
lonelyoptimistSo in india you can get tests without doctors recommendation. So I called up a lab and asked them to do it04:52
LjLah04:52
LjLi don't know, i'm not a doctor... if multiple doctors say you shouldn't worry, they might be right. but these things as described don't seem normal to me.04:53
lonelyoptimistshe had it done twice. Once early in infection when it was 400 and then a couple of days ago (700)04:53
LjLit might not mean sepsis, but it may still mean other nasty things happening to organs, i think04:54
lonelyoptimistDoctors here are prescribing all kinds of random medicines. I have very little trust in them. Which is why I really want to reach out to doctors in US and get consultation from them. But unfortunately no such website exists.04:54
LjLmost reasonable doctors won't want to diagnose something serious like this online, anyway04:55
LjLeven if you found a site with one, they would tell you to either come to the US if you can (obviously not), or seek emergency care04:56
lonelyoptimist:(04:57
lonelyoptimistyeah04:57
LjLmaybe you can find some site with reviews of individual hospitals / doctors?04:57
LjLthere are some such sites here04:57
LjLi'm not sure they are reliable04:58
lonelyoptimistI guess it's just misfortune of being born in the wrong country.04:59
LjLlonelyoptimist, i am in Lombardy, Italy, where this thing first went on fire outside of China04:59
LjLi am privileged and i have barely had problems with COVID, one aunt got it, but she got out of it fine05:00
LjLbut i understand the concern about hospitals not taking patients, etc05:00
LjLwhat you can do while you figure out who could have a professional look at your sister is try to avoid her having panic attacks05:01
LjLkeep her aware or her breathing and everything05:01
lonelyoptimistMust have been scary being one of the first country to witness the havoc that covid can cause.05:01
LjLthe worst thing was that i knew it was coming, and my family wouldn't seem to "get it"05:02
lonelyoptimistIt's really devastating over here. People who could've been saved couldn't get the medical attention they needed. I lost a friend day before yesterday. Another friend of mine knows about 40 people in his life who died, including his dad and uncle.05:02
LjLi had some fights05:02
LjLyes, i've heard from multiple people in India that the reality is way worse than the official numbers indicate :(05:03
LjLat least the numbers are going down now. assuming they haven't just given up counting.05:03
lonelyoptimistit's really difficult convincing people to take precautions. I've had so many fights these past two years.05:03
LjLi don't want to get political for no reason, but for goodness sake, Modi has been a disaster both COVID-wise and by taking India from a democracy to something more resembling a "mixed regime". he has to go.05:03
lonelyoptimistMy guess is that rural areas here are now facing the worst of pandemic. There's no testing over there, no medical care. Even news reporters don't go there05:04
lonelyoptimistSeriously, Modi has hacked the democracy to make it an authoritarian state05:05
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lonelyoptimistEven now, his government has been sabotaging the attempts of foreign made vaccines from entering india. Just to promote locally made vaccines.05:06
LjLwell India makes the most vaccines in the world05:22
lonelyoptimistTrue, but when there's serious vaccine shortage they should try to get as many vaccines in the country as possible. That's what I'd do if I was making decisions for the country.05:24
LjLi guess, but are foreign vaccines available? which ones? the ones from china are showing to be less than very useful05:24
LjLthe EU hasn't really been able to import vaccines from the UK and the US05:25
LjLso i'm not sure India has a huge chance of importing vaccines that actually work05:25
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lonelyoptimistThey imported Sputnik V (I checked their research paper, it doesn't inspire confidence). Pfizer has been trying since December, but they keep insisting to do another clinical trial on indians as "bridging study". Pfizer even agreed to give the vaccines at no profit.05:33
lonelyoptimistAlso, india's covaxin didn't even complete phase three trials and they approved it. They haven't yet published their research paper for peer review. Covaxin also require booster dose in six months, which will be incredibly challenging for indian government to manage.05:36
LjLlonelyoptimist, admittedly i haven't read the Sputnik paper, but it if actually provided 91% protection, then i wonder why Hungary, the most vaccinated country in the EU (since they imported Sputnik and the rest of us didn't), is also the country with the most COVID deaths05:39
LjL(per capita)05:39
LjLwell all vaccines are likely going to require a booster dose :(05:39
lonelyoptimistEric tweeted about Sputnik https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/139261206998847488005:44
lonelyoptimisthttps://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00899-0/fulltext05:44
lonelyoptimist^ Data discrepancies and substandard reporting of interim data of Sputnik V phase 3 trial05:45
lonelyoptimistYeah, they'll all require booster dose. But vaccines that require it an year later is much better than the ones that need it in six months.05:46
LjLlonelyoptimist, i don't think i know Eric Topol, but have you seen in this channel's topic there is a collection of links? many of them are studies, papers and such things. i collect them, mostly based on what seems interesting among what people post here. if you want to follow this stuff, have a look, and also the bot here will post new things from various medical journals and tweets from competent people05:47
LjLde-facto would probably want to have a look at the lancet paper you linked05:47
lonelyoptimistjust checked the github repo. I think they should add the lancet paper over there so that people can make informed decisions05:53
LjLi am mostly the one adding things to the repo. i am inclined to add it, but i'd first like it to be seen by someone else in the channel who's good at parsing papers05:55
LjLanyway the end result for India seems to be: you either get Sputnik (dubious), or one of the Chinese vaccines (admittedly not very effective), try to buy mRNA vaccines from the US (unlikely to happen), or just stay busy producing AZ and Covaxin05:56
LjLunless there's some options i'm missing, i'd go with the last one05:57
LjLalso, other countries and the EU are going to whine that you're not exporting your AZ, but given the situation i think a "fuck you" is appropriate05:57
lonelyoptimistInteresting! Nice work. Having a single repo with all the relevant information will be very useful for people inundated with all kinds of information on the internet05:57
LjLbut after all that, i hope Modi goes, anyway. a bad job overall.05:58
LjLsome people have expressed that it's still too long to parse and find things05:58
LjLi guess maybe sometime i should prune it from older things that didn't prove to be too relevant05:58
LjLit can also be searched with the bot here, but it's not always effective05:58
LjL%links covaxin05:58
BrainstormLjL, Sorry, nothing found. Try with broader keywords05:58
LjL%links sputnik05:59
BrainstormLjL, https://sputnikvaccine.com/newsroom/pressreleases/second-interim-analysis-of-clinical-trial-data-showed-a-91-4-efficacy-for-the-sputnik-v-vaccine-on-d/ (Second interim analysis of clinical trial data showed a 91.4% efficacy for the Sputnik V vaccine on day 28 after the first dose; vaccine efficacy is over 95% 42 days after the first dose), as announced by Gamaleya in a press [... want %more?]05:59
LjL%vax covaxin05:59
BrainstormLjL, Whole - Virion Inactivated (COVAXIN) - BBV152 is a Inactivated virus vaccine developed in India by Bharat Biotech + Ocugen Inc. + Precisa Medicamentos, which started distribution initially on January 2021 → https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/BharatBiotech-inact05:59
LjLi need to sleep now. i hope your sister will be okay05:59
lonelyoptimistThanks.06:00
lonelyoptimistGoodnight!06:00
lonelyoptimistAlso, I admire all the work you've put into creating this bot and github repo.06:02
BrainstormUpdates for Mexico: +3269 cases (now 2.4 million), +306 deaths (now 228146) since 11 hours ago06:08
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-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: G7, colloquio telefonico tra il Presidente Draghi e il Primo Ministro Johnson ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/g7-colloquio-telefonico-tra-il-presidente-draghi-e-il-primo-ministro-johnson/16972 )12:22
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-Bridgestorm- ⭕ Earthquake! 6.1 M tremor, registered by US,quakenotices, occurred 27 minutes ago (10:09:58 UTC), with a crescent moon, Northern Molucca Sea (0.3, 126.32) ± 2 km, ↓20 km likely felt 290 km away (in Ternate, Bitung, Manado, Tomohon, Kotamobagu…) by 1.1 million people → https://t.co/l8R8F4nzpV (Twitter)12:38
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-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Il Presidente Draghi incontra la Presidente di Fdi Giorgia Meloni ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/il-presidente-draghi-incontra-la-presidente-di-fdi-giorgia-meloni/16973 )14:32
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de-factoooffff15:30
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de-factomy deltroid muscle almost does not hurt anymore from the vaccination 2 days ago, honestly first dose of mRNA-1273 was one of the mildest vaccinations i remember to have experienced so far17:51
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LjLMaybe I was hasty with the Matrix bridging after all18:11
de-factoi guess they just restarted it?18:16
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whytekWelcome to de-facto's personal vaccine promotion channel.. :)18:46
whytekbut really.. de-facto I guess that is something you have been waiting for a long time now. If that message is your way of announcing it.. Well I'm happy for you.18:48
whytek:)18:48
de-factoyes indeed i was waiting for it for almost 6 months, sorry if i cant hide that i am happy about it18:49
whytekmRNA-1273...18:49
whytekwhich one is that?18:50
de-factomodeRNA18:50
whytekWell.. Like I said.. happy to hear it's worked out for you.. 2 day and nothing nasty.. you're probably not in the tiny percentage of people who have side effects :)18:51
de-factothank you, i hope second shot will be similar18:51
de-factowill see in 6 weeks18:52
LjLde-facto, yeah it must have been restarted but i suspect it's going to happen more often the usual in the initial days. also, there's still this rather big issue (although it's a "feature") of the bridge just dropping messages when not all Matrix users are connected to IRC18:53
de-factoi also noticed the old bug of ghost puppets at the Matrix side still is present, not sure about the other way around18:55
de-factowell i guess its good if they are working on improving it (even if that requires restarts)18:56
de-factoafter all they announced it still is in testing phase on libera18:56
whytekhttps://www.golem.de/news/o2-testkarte-sim-karte-mit-unbegrenztem-datenvolumen-kostenlos-verfuegbar-2106-156930.html19:01
whytekFree 5G - they should do that only with a vaccine cert.19:02
whytekthat's get the crazies going...19:02
whytekha ha19:02
whytek*that'd19:02
BrainstormUpdates for Dem. Rep. Congo: +243 cases (now 32177), +3 deaths (now 789) since a day ago — Moldova: +69 cases (now 255354), +5 deaths (now 6125) since 22 hours ago — Luxembourg: +61 cases (now 70088) since a day ago — El Salvador: +1 deaths (now 2256) since a day ago19:37
BrainstormUpdates for Ethiopia: +249 cases (now 272285), +7 deaths (now 4185) since 21 hours ago — Israel: +10 cases (now 839527), +1 deaths (now 6416) since 23 hours ago20:39
BrainstormUpdates for Spain: +5250 cases (now 3.7 million), +50 deaths (now 80099) since a day ago — France: +110 deaths (now 109829) since 21 hours ago21:04
LjL<Brainstorm> New from EuroNews: Brussels puts forward plan to create new EU-wide digital identity: The cross-border instrument will allow EU citizens to open bank accounts, file tax returns and enrol in university. #BrusselsBureau → https://is.gd/G6eGVy21:08
LjLarticle showcases the Italian Immuni (COVID contract tracing) app, even though it's not really the kind of thing this is about21:08
LjL(and i'm not sure i like what this is about, but that's a better topic for ##EU where i grabbed this from :P)21:09
BrainstormUpdates for Namibia: +717 cases (now 56981), +12 deaths (now 877) since a day ago — Canada: +1840 cases (now 1.4 million), +27 deaths (now 25609) since 22 hours ago — Isle of Man: +1 cases (now 1595) since a day ago21:41
pwr22Seems like the US is donating a lot of vaccine doses to other countries21:46
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +2952 cases (now 4.5 million) since 19 hours ago22:31
LjLpwr22, well it's good that they donate them, but it's bad that the underlying reason is probably that all Americans who *wanted* to get vaccinated have already gotten it and the others... not ;(23:00
BrainstormUpdates for Chile: +8128 cases (now 1.4 million), +213 deaths (now 29598) since a day ago — Zambia: +825 cases (now 97388), +4 deaths (now 1288) since a day ago — Sint Maarten: +15 cases (now 2448) since a day ago23:08
BrainstormUpdates for Curacao: +2 cases (now 12276) since a day ago23:33
ReGiStRaSWhat's the lastest on the vaccine for B1617 variant?23:42
LjLhmm, i realize that my links don't mention B.1.617 *at all*23:44
LjLi have neglected them for a while :(23:44

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