| pwr22 | I don't agree with that, we are giving a lot of pfizer too but I think this indian variant will show itself to be resistant to them all | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| de-facto | pwr22, the B.1.617.2 took over B.1.1.7 around 18th of May same time as numbers began to rise in UK again, yet they were down very low, and how do we know if B.1.617.2 is currently replicating in a vaccinated or mostly non-vaccinated population? | 00:05 |
| pwr22 | Not sure how de-facto feels but I still haven't got the feeling from reviewing all the news / articles / papers I see that there's actually be significance vaccine escapes until this variant | 00:05 |
| pwr22 | I feel from the uninhibited exponential growth and that we are vaccinating 30 year olds etc at the moment and the current magnitude of cases that it's probably too high to just be it spreading in unvaccinated populations | 00:06 |
| pwr22 | As ever, I hope I'm wrong | 00:06 |
| de-facto | afaik its said that B.1.617.2 is a fitness variant, more reproductive as B.1.1.7 even (was it 150% or 200%?) but not as immuno evasive as the SA VoC B.1.351 (that one was not so fit in replication but needed 10-fold as much antibodies for neutralization) | 00:07 |
| pwr22 | Though so far I've only been significantly off with my doomsday (though I feel they are fairly measured reasonings though I suppose I would 😛) predictions during the pandemic so far | 00:07 |
| pwr22 | I was very glad to be wrong ha ha | 00:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +3 deaths (now 10831) since 9 hours ago | 00:07 |
| de-facto | afaik B.1.617.2 was not as immuno-evasive (i am not sure i remember any numbers correctly but maybe it was like it needed twice the antibody concentration as B.1.1.7 or such)= | 00:07 |
| pwr22 | I guess we will find out more when it blows up here and Boris finally lets us study this stuff properly | 00:08 |
| aradesh | UK numbers going up still :( | 00:08 |
| aradesh | booo | 00:08 |
| pwr22 | Yep, pretty bad | 00:08 |
| de-facto | https://covid19.sanger.ac.uk/lineages/raw?show=B.1.617.2%2CB.1.1.7&lineage=B.1.617.2&colorBy=p | 00:08 |
| de-facto | but also its growing in Germany already | 00:09 |
| de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/xFhaFib https://i.imgur.com/iXt9Kni.png source https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/DESH/Bericht_VOC_2021-06-02.pdf?__blob=publicationFile page 8 | 00:09 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: SARS-CoV-2-VoCs evolution 2021 - Album on Imgur | 00:09 |
| de-facto | not as bad as UK though still its already imported here too | 00:09 |
| de-facto | i would really like to know if B.1.617.2 currently circulated mostly in a non-vaccinated cohort | 00:12 |
| de-facto | i suspect that, but i dont know | 00:12 |
| dTal | I've heard hearsay that it infects vaccinated people but never seriously | 00:13 |
| dTal | while unvaccinated people are twice as likely to end up in hospital as previous variants :/ | 00:13 |
| de-facto | ugh but yeah thats to be expected, it developing more aggressive strains (with more reproduction capability) | 00:14 |
| LjL | dTal, pwr22: yeah, so, do the part that i'm too lazy to do for me, and look up what's the average age of cases and average age of hospitalizations in the UK and whether it has changed significantly since the Indian variants came around | 00:22 |
| de-facto | idk i am still not too worried about that indian variant, if it would be massively immuno-evasive then it would be of much more concern, but if its "just" more reproductive on a cellular level in naive carriers, then it might not be as big of a problem as if it would circumvent vaccination efforts | 00:33 |
| de-facto | but maybe i am completely wrong with that, who knows | 00:34 |
| de-facto | it would be interesting if its fitness advantage also shows in cohorts where the vaccination campaign progressed further, e.g. why did it not explode in London yet? | 00:36 |
| de-facto | its more like Blackburn and Bolton, Bedford, Birmingham, Leicester etc | 00:38 |
| de-facto | (choose "genomes per week") | 00:38 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: wouldn't we be expecting it to develop less severe symptoms over time? | 00:47 |
| pwr22 | LjL: I don't think there's sufficient good data for the UK freely available right now. This spike seems very sudden, we are like only 2 weeks into it proper. I expect we might see increased deaths starting from a week from now and then hospital capacities starting to climb more significantly a week after that. This is based on extrapolating the previous trends here to the current moment 🤷♂️ | 00:49 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: I think in a month we'll be able to look at what's going on in the UK and have a good idea about whether it is evasive of the vaccines or just more efficient at spreading | 00:51 |
| pwr22 | Sadly if it is the worst case it's not gonna be good for us here now my family and our vulnerabilities personally ☹️ | 00:51 |
| * pwr22 probes Brainstorm to see if the bridge is working | 00:51 | |
| * Brainstorm starts to measure up pwr22 with some importunate mommy | 00:52 | |
| pwr22 | Seems it's up and what a response lol | 00:52 |
| de-facto | pwr22, why would it develop less severe symptoms? | 01:03 |
| de-facto | (i mean could be, but why?) | 01:03 |
| LjL | i don't think this virus has much incentive to develop less severe symptoms if most of the infectiousness happens before symptoms | 01:04 |
| de-facto | i think so too there has to be some selection as promoter of a specific attribute | 01:07 |
| de-facto | be it positive or negative selection | 01:08 |
| de-facto | for the pathogen there is only one property, its reproductive capability | 01:10 |
| de-facto | if it causes symptoms later or such, if that would not affect its reproductive capability its irrelevant for it | 01:10 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: I mean over time don't viruses tend to evolve to cause less fatality etc because they have more opportunity to spread that way. Becoming a better parasite etc? | 01:12 |
| pwr22 | A parasite that kills it's host isn't efficient right? | 01:12 |
| de-facto | it depends on when it infects others | 01:12 |
| de-facto | if the infection already happened what effect does it have on that next host in the infection chain if the previous carrier has severe symptoms? | 01:13 |
| pwr22 | As far as I'm aware the severe influenzas tend to attenuate over time so not sure why coronaviruses wouldn't? | 01:13 |
| de-facto | its already too late by the time when the infection already happened | 01:13 |
| LjL | pwr22, honestly i think that's become a bit of a meme about COVID but it's not really true in general, or it may only be true in the very long run | 01:13 |
| pwr22 | If the previous carrier is not dead it can spread to another host after and again and again | 01:13 |
| LjL | pwr22, how much milder has HIV become in the century or so it's been infecting humans and only becoming symptomatic >10 years after starting being able to infect others? | 01:14 |
| pwr22 | LjL: I think it took a bunch of years for the spanish flu? | 01:14 |
| pwr22 | Tbh, the fact we treat people with HIV very effectively clearly changes the profile of it's selection pressure | 01:14 |
| LjL | pwr22, well the flu is the flu. COVID's characteristic of having peak infectiousness just *before* it becomes symptomatic creates a bit of a barrier to caring about being less symptomatic. or alternative, it can take the HIV route and just become symptomatic *later* | 01:15 |
| pwr22 | And it's also a very different sort of virus that works very differently | 01:15 |
| LjL | they are all evolutionary strategies that can be pursued | 01:15 |
| pwr22 | It also doesn't kill as fast as covid | 01:15 |
| LjL | pwr22, we've only started treating it effectively in the past... recently. and how does it change its selection pressure anyway? if anything i'd say being able to *detect* it changes its selection pressure, because otherwise it could much more easily infect others while asymptomatic | 01:16 |
| pwr22 | Anyhow, we will see how it goes I guess | 01:16 |
| de-facto | if thing is, with SARS-CoV-2 most of the infections already happen in its asymptomatic phase | 01:16 |
| de-facto | or presymptomatic | 01:16 |
| LjL | pwr22, well, so far, each successive "variant of concern" has shown hints of being more severe, nor less, so that's how it's going for now | 01:16 |
| pwr22 | Sure, for the first infections, whether the host dies doesn't change anything | 01:17 |
| pwr22 | but if the host doesn't die, then they might go on to infect huge numbers more | 01:17 |
| pwr22 | and that does imply a selection pressure for milder effects | 01:17 |
| de-facto | and the infections happen when its still in the upper respiratory airways (nasal and pharyngeal regions), later when its deep in the lungs, producing severe problems (and symptoms) it may not be as contagious anymore | 01:17 |
| LjL | pwr22, but right now, when the host is sick the host is already pretty much *not infectious*. so before the virus develops the trick you say, it should start developing the one where it remains infectious for longer | 01:18 |
| pwr22 | LjL: yeah I think we are putting a lot of pressure on it to escape our measure | 01:18 |
| pwr22 | *measures | 01:18 |
| pwr22 | One way of thinking about it though is if benign variants evolve, we would stop applying measures and so they would thrive | 01:18 |
| pwr22 | Which again is another potential pressure | 01:19 |
| pwr22 | So yeah, I guess we'll see what happens in the next 4 years or so | 01:19 |
| LjL | i don't think encouraging the virus to thrive is a good idea, regardless of the variant du jour | 01:19 |
| pwr22 | We have the technology to track it's lineage over time if we don't see it just disappear entirely | 01:19 |
| LjL | the virus thriving means the virus being simultaneously in more hosts, which means more "powerful" selective pressure, which means better vaccine evasion and potentially more surprises | 01:20 |
| pwr22 | Well the reality is there are many bacteria, fungi and organisms living on and in us thriving that have all adapted (and us to them) to be beneficial | 01:20 |
| LjL | over how long? | 01:20 |
| LjL | i'd rather this stopped being a death threat within my lifetime | 01:20 |
| de-facto | there also could be made the argument that it becomes more symptomatic over time, e.g. it becoming more reproductive on cellular level, replicating faster by having optimized to human cells, therefore also having more viral load in the very early times, being more contagious and by introducing more viral load also provoking stronger immune system reactions later on | 01:20 |
| de-facto | just as one example for a possible mechanism against less symptomatic | 01:21 |
| pwr22 | Also, many viruses that exist are just mildly symptomatic to humans which could be seen as evidence that fatality is undesirable | 01:21 |
| de-facto | ofc if ebola was not so fatal, it might not have been seen as thread and not been contained | 01:22 |
| pwr22 | LjL: how long, we will just have to see 😀. I'm not advocating for dropping attempts to control a dangerous virus at all etc. Just thinking about stuff | 01:22 |
| LjL | yeah de-facto is right, if every virus simply tended towards becoming less severe, we'd all be very well off virus-wise, but there is actually a compromise a virus has to strike between being infectious for longer, and managing to produce more copies of itself within the same host (which, too, tends to make it more infectious, but also tends to "disrupt the host" more i.e. kill its cells i.e. eventually kill the host) | 01:22 |
| de-facto | sure there are all kinds of effects at play | 01:22 |
| pwr22 | LjL: and likewise a virus that manages to colonise us long term can perhaps produce more offspring overall when it has a parasitic relationship with the whole human race 😀 | 01:23 |
| de-facto | there are many such viruses | 01:23 |
| pwr22 | I certainly agree that so far things are not looking good wrt to the mutations | 01:23 |
| pwr22 | And I'm pretty concerned | 01:24 |
| pwr22 | IIRC herpes simplex things work a bit like that? | 01:24 |
| pwr22 | I mean they edit themselves into your DNA permanently or something? | 01:24 |
| de-facto | yeah or epstein barr | 01:24 |
| LjL | pwr22, it's much harder, also given our immune system, to strike a delicate balance, than to do what COVID is doing. so as i said, i consider what you said likely over very long time spans (or very short, depends on your point of view, but i care about my lifetime currently), but as medium-term evolution goes, there is not an obvious incentive to be less severe, and there could be incentive to do the reverse | 01:24 |
| de-facto | there are many different ones | 01:24 |
| LjL | pwr22, no, HSV doesn't change your DNA, it "simply" hides in your nerve ganglia | 01:25 |
| de-facto | some viruses you never heard about, everyone got them but they dont cause problems, hence noone cares | 01:25 |
| LjL | HPV hides elsewhere | 01:25 |
| LjL | HIV does edit your DNA | 01:25 |
| LjL | retroviruses are the ones that do | 01:25 |
| de-facto | yep | 01:25 |
| LjL | de-facto, except we're starting to care because we're starting to realize they're linked to maybe rare but potentially very severe diseases | 01:25 |
| LjL | like with HPV | 01:25 |
| LjL | and we just never realized before *because* everyone has them, so it's hard to establish correlation and causation | 01:26 |
| de-facto | actually i am not even sure all viruses are to our disadvantage | 01:26 |
| de-facto | maybe they also give us properties that are desirable? | 01:26 |
| LjL | viruses do a lot of things, including horizontal gene transfer, and we probably wouldn't exist without viruses :P | 01:26 |
| de-facto | or train the immune system, or have some cross immunity etc | 01:26 |
| LjL | but i'd still rather not get HPV | 01:27 |
| pwr22 | Isn't the evidence that retroviruses have contributed to our genetic code significantly in the past? | 01:27 |
| whytek | virus == DNA | 01:27 |
| LjL | whytek, no? | 01:27 |
| LjL | whytek, you're in a channel dedicated to an RNA virus | 01:27 |
| pwr22 | DNA viruses are rarer right? | 01:27 |
| LjL | pwr22, yes we're full of viral DNA | 01:27 |
| LjL | i think so | 01:27 |
| de-facto | DNA viruses are much more stable | 01:27 |
| LjL | pwr22, (and by "full" i don't really mean full, but there is a fair amount) | 01:27 |
| pwr22 | LjL: I'm still hoping that we'll get on top of covid through our vaccine production in the next year or so | 01:28 |
| de-facto | i think we will | 01:28 |
| LjL | i think we won't on the first attempt | 01:28 |
| whytek | ok from a very very lay point of view, DNA == RNA | 01:29 |
| * whytek ducks | 01:29 | |
| pwr22 | Otherwise I would expect it to start abating after 2 years and be mostly resolved as a pandemic in 4 years or so, but that might play out differently now because we are applying a lot of different pressures with how we are handling this pandemic than any other in the past afaict | 01:29 |
| whytek | let me be more broad virus == NA | 01:29 |
| pwr22 | LjL: I'm thinking attempt one has already failed, but hopefully the next gen vaccines we will be less cautious with and get on top of it | 01:29 |
| pwr22 | I think de-facto and I agree on that | 01:30 |
| pwr22 | Failed is the wrong word btw | 01:30 |
| pwr22 | More "The first attempt has already proved not to be enough" | 01:30 |
| pwr22 | It's certainly saved a lot of lives | 01:30 |
| pwr22 | And given people hope of normality | 01:30 |
| pwr22 | Now lets just keep Bill Gates and his lobby group(s) out of vaccine gen 2 discussions :P | 01:30 |
| de-facto | i think the vaccines will make it much more difficult for the virus to replicate, but also introduce strong selection for more fit variants thereby | 01:31 |
| whytek | Nucleic Acid, but my point was that the only diff. between some these essential parts of life and a "virus" is that the "virus" is not part of the current parts needs for a healthy organism | 01:31 |
| de-facto | more fit variants in an immunized population, hence the evasive ones that also are more reproductive (as being optimized for human cells) | 01:31 |
| de-facto | pwr22, afaik its the very first time humanity got the technical capability to vaccinate into a spreading pandemic and try to end it that way | 01:32 |
| de-facto | so we dont really know how well that will work, maybe it works just fine, maybe it uncovers something new to learn about evolution, in a year or two we might know | 01:33 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, before we would have to stick with behavioural changes and wait it out | 01:33 |
| pwr22 | And accept a higher deathtoll | 01:34 |
| de-facto | yet if death does not happen before reproduction (ie. affect the young) it does not have a selection function on human genome | 01:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +44 deaths (now 25667) since 23 hours ago | 01:34 |
| pwr22 | whytek: I think if you said something like "viruses are genetic material, a package and a delivery mechanism" then you might get less complaints :D | 01:34 |
| pwr22 | And I'm sure that doesn't cover a lot of viruses too 😀 | 01:35 |
| de-facto | actually i think we soon will discover viruses are the new medicine | 01:35 |
| de-facto | i mean just think about it, now we got those mRNA vaccines | 01:35 |
| de-facto | what do they do? basically they deliver instructions to cells | 01:36 |
| de-facto | any kind of instruction can be delivered like that, hence a very broad field of applications, at the start mostly employing immune system of course | 01:36 |
| de-facto | but then one would want a targeted delivery to a specific type of cell | 01:37 |
| pwr22 | Yeah they're kind of a very purpose specific and non-reproductive virus | 01:37 |
| pwr22 | Just the bare essentials, none of that messy nature stuff 😛 | 01:37 |
| de-facto | that is how a virus docks to specific receptors on cells, it selects a special type of cell | 01:37 |
| de-facto | then it got all kinds of trickery inside that make it more stable etc, all desirable properties | 01:38 |
| finely[m] | <LjL "finely, well, that part for sure"> Would explain some long COVID symptoms. Regardless, youd get a much higher dose with an infection. | 01:38 |
| pwr22 | Right, time for bed for me soon 😀 | 01:39 |
| de-facto | and finally it even self replicates, that part somehow must be controlled though, e.g. making it dependent on a cofactor that it absolutely requires and that it can not reproduce by itself "taking ot on a leash" | 01:39 |
| LjL | finely[m], yes, of course when it comes to "do i prefer to get infected, or to get a vaccine" equation, the outcome is clear, but that doesn't mean some concerns aren't still potentially concerning | 01:39 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: how long till it evolves to not need the co-factor 😛 ? | 01:39 |
| de-facto | good question, things that have to be figured out | 01:40 |
| LjL | as a rule of thumb, anything that requires new behavior takes longer to evolve than anything that takes tuning existing behavior | 01:40 |
| pwr22 | The sci-fi I like to read is full of all sorts of wonderful stuff like the future you're discussing here | 01:40 |
| de-facto | but it cant simply switch codon and then magically become self sustaining if a whole functional and essential part was deleted from its genome | 01:41 |
| LjL | de-facto, this is why we like to be sexual, we can switch some things quite dramatically without being nonfunctional :P | 01:41 |
| de-facto | it may steal that part from some other virus, a coinfection, so that must be taken into account | 01:41 |
| LjL | oh right, virus sex | 01:41 |
| de-facto | recombination in covonaviruses for example, rare but possible | 01:42 |
| de-facto | not sure if that also can happen "cross virus species" probably quite unlikely that something reproductive comes out of that | 01:43 |
| de-facto | LjL, did you know that most of the produced virions are garbage? afaik its only like 1% that even is fit enough to infect other cells, but since the replication is producing so many it does not really matter | 01:43 |
| LjL | de-facto, but it could matter since if it produced less garbage, it could produce more viable virions while creating less damage to the host | 01:44 |
| LjL | in turn meanwhile it could *continue* producing more viable virions | 01:44 |
| de-facto | not really, because the limiting factor are the cells, it very soon goes into saturation | 01:44 |
| LjL | s/meanwhile/meaning/ | 01:44 |
| finely[m] | <pwr22 "As far as I'm aware the severe i"> Influenzas haven't had the selective pressure from widespread lockdown, masks and other behavioural changes. | 01:44 |
| LjL | de-facto, well one thing is being saturated with garbage and another is being saturated with working virions! | 01:45 |
| de-facto | locally at least, if it is mobile and can spread its another story though (e.g. in the blood etc) | 01:45 |
| de-facto | yeah but if a tissue is saturated locally its saturated, all cells are producing new virions already, and it does not matter if there are more that could infect more cells, as long as no non-infected cells are reachable by those virions | 01:46 |
| de-facto | afaik its an S-shaped saturation function that is reached pretty fast (but yeah ofc also depends on antibody neutralization etc) and then it really could go out of saturation at some point yet probably will be overflooded with antibodies so much that two orders of magnitude dont play such a big role anymore | 01:47 |
| de-facto | maybe at the edge scenarios, where it transitions from being saturated to being neutralized, there it could make a difference which portion of produced virions are functional | 01:48 |
| de-facto | the very short time where its in the middle of the S-shape | 01:49 |
| finely[m] | <pwr22 "LjL: I'm still hoping that we'll"> We haven't begun to address the factors limiting production. I am not hopeful. | 01:51 |
| de-facto | yep we still dont have enough vaccine doese by a long shot | 01:52 |
| de-facto | its a shame | 01:52 |
| LjL | finely[m], oh god that's going to trigger de-facto | 01:52 |
| de-facto | but i ranted about that many times already its always the same, if we dont manage to get our stuff together and do whats possible, i know something that will do that without hesitation: the virus will use all resources available to reproduce | 01:54 |
| finely[m] | <LjL "finely, yes, of course when it c"> I was arguing against the antivaxer from earlier. ie you shouldnt get the vaccine because the spike protein might cross the blood brain barrier. | 01:54 |
| de-facto | yeah thats nonsense ofc | 01:54 |
| LjL | finely[m], well, i guess it depends what it does (if anything) *after* it has crossed the blood-brain barrier, largely! | 01:55 |
| LjL | someone else pointed out to me that the S-proteins from the vaccine are mainly staying in muscles and adjacent lymph nodes | 01:55 |
| LjL | but | 01:56 |
| de-facto | its not freely floating around, its a membrane protein, hence once produced it will "bloom" on a cellular surface, by that i mean it sticking to the cells membrane and exposing its "spike" RBD to the outside, just as a flowers bloom | 01:56 |
| finely[m] | Or even if this study pans out. | 01:56 |
| LjL | 1) although it would take me geological eras to grep for them, i think i've seen scientific articles stating that we don't really *know* where the S-protein ends up being produced, and sure the muscle and lymph nodes are pretty obvious spots, but it would be interesting to know if it's also elsewhere, where, and for how long | 01:56 |
| de-facto | by that presence there, it provokes the immune response, but its not freely floating around in the blood stream or such | 01:57 |
| LjL | 2) i don't remember what point 2 was going to be | 01:57 |
| LjL | oh maybe 2) since it's in the lymphatic system, and it's hard to rule out it being in the blood as well (although that may be at the root of Big Problems if it is sometimes), it could potentially go in many places | 01:58 |
| finely[m] | Plenty still to learn. We only just figured out a step of the malaria parasites lifecyle in humans. | 01:58 |
| de-facto | afaik it will infect cells that expose ApoE (hence the cholesterol on the LNPs) | 01:59 |
| de-facto | so maybe also in the liver | 01:59 |
| de-facto | so heh, why not put s-protein itself on the LNPs to make them dock to ACE2 and select same type of cells that also would be infected by SARS-CoV-2? | 02:00 |
| LjL | i'm not really sure i get what you're saying | 02:04 |
| LjL | anyhow, i'm probably getting Pfizer tomorrow | 02:04 |
| LjL | i'll let you know if my blood brain barrier gets penetrated | 02:04 |
| LjL | could be exciting | 02:04 |
| de-facto | LjL, tomorrow? | 02:06 |
| de-facto | at what time? | 02:06 |
| finely[m] | That's good news. Congrats. | 02:07 |
| de-facto | yeah congratz LjL :) | 02:10 |
| pwr22 | Congrats | 02:13 |
| LjL | de-facto, yeah, 6pm | 02:17 |
| LjL | well, between 6 and 7 | 02:17 |
| LjL | thanks | 02:17 |
| LjL | i *might* not get Pfizer, though | 02:17 |
| LjL | but i strongly suspect i will get injected something | 02:18 |
| LjL | that's as bold of a claim as i can make | 02:18 |
| de-facto | 6pm perfect timing for you then :D | 02:20 |
| LjL | sssh :x | 02:20 |
| de-facto | lol :))) | 02:20 |
| LjL | in fact what bothers me the most is i can't choose the time for the 2nd shot appointment ;( | 02:20 |
| de-facto | just in the morning, thats when they say its best time for immunogenicity | 02:20 |
| LjL | right, in my morning :P | 02:21 |
| de-facto | hence perfect timing for you, all refreshed after a good day of sleep :D | 02:21 |
| * de-facto notes that he is chronic insomniac himself | 02:22 | |
| LjL | would you guess the advice not to drink alcohol in the days around the vaccines is crucial, by the way? i'd rather keep drinking the small amount i do, since days are hard enough even with | 02:22 |
| de-facto | i would not drink anything if you would not need ot | 02:23 |
| de-facto | i would not drink any alcohol if you would not need it | 02:23 |
| de-facto | actually i right now having a hard time resisting that chilled beer in my fridge because its hot here | 02:23 |
| de-facto | i stick with abstinence though, so i would advice not to drink any alc around the time where immunity may develop | 02:24 |
| de-facto | it probably would not block it, but it may de-optimize the process potentially and also be an additional load on the liver | 02:25 |
| LjL | i suppose it's educated guesswork though, not like there have been studies on antibody titers of people who did or did not drink alcohol? | 02:25 |
| de-facto | idk maybe search for it? | 02:25 |
| de-facto | there were studies about sleep deficit though, i think i linked a few some time ago, it was quite a bit, like 50% in titers or such | 02:26 |
| LjL | de-facto, well the general media articles that talk about it (some of which cite studies, but you know, as they do, quite vaguely) seem to say that *mild to moderate* drinking could actually be beneficial to immune response, while heavy drinking is definitely a bad idea (in many ways, but also in terms of immunity) | 02:34 |
| LjL | but let's have a | 02:34 |
| LjL | %preprints alcohol vaccine | 02:34 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: An error occurred while searching. | 02:34 |
| LjL | :( | 02:34 |
| LjL | they must have changed the API | 02:34 |
| LjL | whatever, i'll search on whatsitsname instead, the one with not-preprints | 02:34 |
| de-facto | i think i will have to go to sleep soon, breeding on immunity here :P | 02:36 |
| de-facto | at least trying to | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Uruguay: +4079 cases (now 308490), +56 deaths (now 4516) since 22 hours ago — Kazakhstan: +2085 cases (now 419155) since 23 hours ago — Panama: +915 cases (now 381122), +1 deaths (now 6389) since 21 hours ago — Palestine: +311 cases (now 309644), +2 deaths (now 3511) since a day ago | 02:36 |
| LjL | it might be late for me to change my sleep schedule now | 02:36 |
| LjL | i can't do it suddenly | 02:37 |
| LjL | anyway i meant https://preview.zbmed.de/ for the one whose API seems to have changed, and https://outbreak.info/resources/search for the other one. good thing i have my links page since i don't remember the name of a single thing | 02:37 |
| LjL | uh this is not promising https://preview.zbmed.de/api/ | 02:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Paraguay: +3481 cases (now 368183), +111 deaths (now 9609) since 22 hours ago — French Guiana: +191 cases (now 24725) since a day ago — Gabon: +89 cases (now 24518), +1 deaths (now 153) since 2 days ago — Mauritania: +57 cases (now 19752), +2 deaths (now 466) since 22 hours ago | 03:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Colombia: +30000 cases (now 3.5 million), +537 deaths (now 90890) since 23 hours ago — Peru: +10734 cases (now 2.0 million), +433 deaths (now 185813) since 22 hours ago — Seychelles: +537 cases (now 12158) since 2 days ago — Cyprus: +83 cases (now 72709), +1 deaths (now 363) since a day ago | 03:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iceland: +7 cases (now 6604) since 23 hours ago — St. Kitts and Nevis: +3 cases (now 78) since a day ago — Liechtenstein: +2 cases (now 3019) since a day ago | 04:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Suriname: +333 cases (now 16009), +7 deaths (now 332) since a day ago — Laos: +9 cases (now 1952) since a day ago | 04:41 |
| leejo | /!⧵ THIЅ ⲤHΑΝΝEL ᎻAЅ MⲞVEⅮ TO ІRC.LⅠᏴᎬRᎪ.ⅭHAT ＃HᎪMᖇADIⲞ ⧸!\ | 04:52 |
| leejo | /﹗\ ТᕼЕ JEWS HАⅤE TAKЕΝ ⲞVΕᎡ ᖴREΕNΟDE, CHAΤS HᎪᏙΕ MΟVED TO IᏒⲤ.ⅬⅠBEᎡΑ.CⲎAΤ ⁄!\ | 04:52 |
| leejo | /!\ JⲞⅠN #HᎪMRᎪDⅠO TOⅮAΥ. TᎻIS CHANNEL ΗAЅ ΜOVΕD ΤО IᎡC․LIBЕRA.CΗAT #ΗАΜRАᎠΙΟ ᜵ⵑ⧵ | 04:52 |
| LjL | that's nice that my bot is working so well (not) | 04:57 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Korea: +744 cases (now 143596), +2 deaths (now 1971) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +4605 cases (now 4.5 million), +8 deaths (now 127952) since 21 hours ago — France: +37 deaths (now 109943) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +1202 cases (now 1.7 million), +4 deaths (now 17793) since 21 hours ago | 05:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for St. Vin. and Gren.: +21 cases (now 2065) since 2 days ago — Belize: +21 cases (now 12861) since a day ago — Gambia: +4 cases (now 5999) since a day ago | 05:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +1449 cases (now 1.1 million), +19 deaths (now 25014) since 23 hours ago | 06:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +83 deaths (now 89400) since 23 hours ago | 06:33 |
| KREYREN[m] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY7IsjOizmk 1/3rd of teens with covid-19 ends up in an ICU - ABCNews | 06:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for England, United Kingdom: +5004 cases (now 3.9 million), +9 deaths (now 112424) since 23 hours ago — Metropolitana, Chile: +3897 cases (now 589294), +38 deaths (now 15627) since 23 hours ago — Mongolia: +1393 cases (now 63978), +6 deaths (now 307) since 23 hours ago — Distrito Federal, Brazil: +1120 cases (now 409147), +26 deaths (now 8766) since 23 hours ago | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +120529 cases (now 28.7 million), +3159 deaths (now 342962) since 23 hours ago | 08:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Assam, India: +4548 cases (now 428933), +54 deaths (now 3577) since 23 hours ago — Manipur, India: +791 cases (now 53690), +14 deaths (now 863) since 23 hours ago — Tripura, India: +708 cases (now 54580), +11 deaths (now 550) since 23 hours ago — Meghalaya, India: +584 cases (now 37733), +18 deaths (now 643) since 23 hours ago | 10:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Haiti: +237 cases (now 15295), +2 deaths (now 323) since 18 hours ago | 11:06 |
| pwr22 | Just read that the EU are not putting the UK on the ok to travel list | 11:07 |
| pwr22 | I think that's a very sensible precaution | 11:07 |
| pwr22 | It's probably politically shrewd too 😛 | 11:08 |
| pwr22 | KREYREN 1/3 of hospitalised teens with covid 19 | 11:09 |
| KREYREN[m] | <pwr22 "KREYREN 1/3 of hospitalised teen"> yep missed the hospitalised part sorry x.x | 11:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +9145 cases (now 5.1 million), +399 deaths (now 123436) since 23 hours ago — Afghanistan: +1867 cases (now 77934), +67 deaths (now 3103) since 23 hours ago — Jamaica: +166 cases (now 48821), +9 deaths (now 960) since a day ago — Taiwan: +510 cases (now 10956), +38 deaths (now 225) since a day ago | 11:31 |
| de-facto | https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1400934499182157825 Post-Brexit cooperation: UK and Germany working together to plot a Data Stegosaurus on @OurWorldInData | 12:54 |
| de-facto | lol :D | 12:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for UAE: +2188 cases (now 581197), +5 deaths (now 1696) since 23 hours ago | 13:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Indonesia: +6594 cases (now 1.9 million), +153 deaths (now 51449) since a day ago — Malta: +9 cases (now 30568) since 23 hours ago | 13:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +2311 cases (now 3.7 million) since 22 hours ago | 14:37 |
| Arsanerit | Interesting, Landkreis Vorpommern-Rügen has had -1 new cases since yesterday. https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/478220a4c454480e823b17327b2bf1d4/page/page_1/ | 15:13 |
| de-facto | hence they do care about correcting, a good thing imho | 15:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +3540 cases (now 585100), +68 deaths (now 7799) since a day ago — Bangladesh: +1447 cases (now 809314), +43 deaths (now 12801) since a day ago | 15:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Senegal: +50 cases (now 41631), +1 deaths (now 1145) since a day ago — Switzerland: +1 deaths (now 10832) since 16 hours ago | 16:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Greenland: +3 cases (now 43) since 2 days ago | 17:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Zambia: +1164 cases (now 99540), +6 deaths (now 1303) since 21 hours ago — North Macedonia: +28 cases (now 155407), +6 deaths (now 5448) since 23 hours ago | 17:32 |
| de-facto | LjL on your way? | 17:47 |
| LjL-Matrix | de-facto: yes I'm in the queue there's a ton of people | 18:33 |
| LjL-Matrix | And it's been raining hard | 18:33 |
| LjL-Matrix | Short but hard, just at the right time | 18:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +2434 cases (now 4.2 million), +57 deaths (now 126472) since a day ago | 18:34 |
| de-facto | glad to hear LjL-Matrix keep distance and wearing tight mask with all the people there | 18:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +36 deaths (now 25685) since 22 hours ago | 18:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Timor-Leste: +148 cases (now 7659) since 14 hours ago | 19:36 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Dichiarazione del Presidente del Consiglio Mario Draghi ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/dichiarazionedel-presidente-del-consiglio-mario-draghi/17023 ) | 19:43 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cayman Is.: +3 cases (now 587) since 3 days ago | 20:01 |
| KREYREN[m] | https://www.theepochtimes.com/supreme-court-rejects-johnson-johnson-bid-to-toss-2-billion-talc-verdict_3839783.html | 20:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Chile: +8920 cases (now 1.4 million), +120 deaths (now 29816) since a day ago — Morocco: +426 cases (now 521195), +4 deaths (now 9173) since 23 hours ago | 20:38 |
| de-facto | how did it go LjL-Matrix ? | 21:00 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Nota della Presidenza del Consiglio ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/nota-della-presidenza-del-consiglio/17024 ) | 21:03 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Articolo truffa in rete, nota della Presidenza del Consiglio ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/articolo-truffa-rete-nota-della-presidenza-del-consiglio/17025 ) | 21:23 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sint Maarten: +17 cases (now 2471) since a day ago — Canada: +34 deaths (now 25687) since 23 hours ago | 21:41 |
| LjL | de-facto, the distance was a farce, the place was very big (a previously unused building) but with no real walls, only fake separators | 21:41 |
| LjL | waited more than an hour just to get check-in | 21:42 |
| LjL | then i had a completely moronic doctor doing my assessment | 21:42 |
| LjL | it took i don't know, maybe 30 minutes, i didn't look at my watch, i was like paralyzed in place | 21:42 |
| LjL | because he didn't even greet me, initially he spent time going back and forth until he complained to someone that he thought someone had tampered with his computer login | 21:42 |
| LjL | ignoring me completely | 21:42 |
| LjL | while other people were going into the other booths, getting it done in a matter of a couple of minutes, and that was it | 21:43 |
| LjL | so i probably wasted half an hour with this idiot | 21:43 |
| LjL | then the actual vaccine was like 2 minutes wait, 2 minutes vaccine, done, then 15 minutes in the waiting room | 21:43 |
| LjL | in all the waiting rooms there were chairs at 1m distance from each other | 21:43 |
| LjL | i think you know that the 1m distance is ridiculous | 21:43 |
| LjL | but the place was crammed full | 21:44 |
| LjL | i hope they had a decent air circulation system at least | 21:44 |
| de-facto | nice pretty much the same then here (except for that weird doc) | 21:45 |
| de-facto | which one did you get? | 21:45 |
| de-facto | at the place i got it there was no queue, but they had "bouncers" outside with a "guestlist" | 21:48 |
| de-facto | so actually they only allowed people on that list on the area with a big exhibition hall | 21:48 |
| de-facto | then at next station they asked if it was 1st or 2nd shot, so i said 1st and they directed me to some guy at computer desk to register me with my electronic insurance card (probably the point where it goes into the system) | 21:49 |
| de-facto | then he asked me generic questions about allergies etc and printed out a pre-filled information about the vaccination process with all the medical detail etc and directed me into a room where they had a 10 minute video explaining everything again (quite a good idea for people that could not read) | 21:50 |
| de-facto | they divided all that exhibition hall with rooms without ceiling (the halls ceiling was like 20m above) | 21:51 |
| de-facto | next i had to wait in front of a cabin for an individual talk with a medical doctor where he read over the prefilled papers and i could ask everything in privacy, quite a good concept but they also had to provide a real medical doc just for that | 21:52 |
| de-facto | after i signed the that i was informed and that i want the shot, he signed my vaccination pass (that yellow WHO document) and pre-filled it, then i was directed to the last cabin where i received the shot (also like 2 minutes or such) where they put in the sticker with the batch number into my yellow vaccination passport | 21:54 |
| de-facto | then the 15 minutes wait, they had pairs of chairs maybe 2m apart, and also all full with people | 21:54 |
| de-facto | at the exit i handed them all the signed papers and stuff, they put it into storage there, so i went away with the shot and my yellow vaccination passport | 21:55 |
| de-facto | quite well organized actually, cant complain about anything | 21:55 |
| meoww | LjL: congrats | 22:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Israel: +27 cases (now 839566), +1 deaths (now 6418) since a day ago | 22:30 |
| LjL | de-facto, i got Pfizer | 22:50 |
| LjL | they were also giving Moderna, and i heard someone with J&J but i think that's mostly given to people who've had COVID here (because it's one dose) | 22:50 |
| de-facto | nice LjL congratz | 22:51 |
| de-facto | how are you feeling now after the shot? | 22:51 |
| LjL | de-facto, my building was originally an exhibition area too (Milan Fair, built around the end of 1800 i think) | 22:51 |
| LjL | de-facto, i'm fine for now, arm hurts a bit | 22:51 |
| LjL | meoww, thanks | 22:52 |
| de-facto | how many hours did it take for your arm to start to hurt a bit? | 22:52 |
| LjL | de-facto, immediately. i guess it still has time to start hurting *for real* :P | 22:52 |
| LjL | right now it's like... if i move it a bit too much i feel almost like there's still a needle stuck in the upper arm | 22:53 |
| LjL | but nothing bad, more unpleasant than painful | 22:53 |
| ublx | pfizer? | 22:53 |
| de-facto | really? for me it was tickling a bit but the slight ache started around 3h after the primer injection | 22:53 |
| LjL | ublx, yep | 22:53 |
| ublx | congrats | 22:53 |
| LjL | de-facto, well it's not been 3h yet | 22:53 |
| de-facto | LjL, make sure you drink enough | 22:53 |
| LjL | so we'll see | 22:53 |
| LjL | ublx, didn't take anything though, they were doing either Pfizer or Moderna by default to anyone my age | 22:53 |
| de-facto | and maybe eat something good, just as a reward for the hard work your cells are doing for your immunity :D | 22:54 |
| LjL | with a sprinkling of J&J but as i was saying, i think that is only given to people who had COVID before | 22:54 |
| ublx | hm | 22:54 |
| LjL | ublx, it was ridiculously full of people though and it took almost two hours, including the worst doctor ever to ask me the questions etc | 22:54 |
| ublx | were you disappointed you didn't get to have an argument with them? | 22:54 |
| LjL | no | 22:54 |
| LjL | i was mostly feeling much more anxious than i had gauged | 22:55 |
| LjL | not about the shot, just about being there and the wait and all the papers and this doctor who wouldn't even talk to me | 22:55 |
| de-facto | did they inform you well and let you ask any medical questions to a doc in privacy? | 22:56 |
| LjL | i googled this doctor later, and unless it's just someone with the same name, he's a dental surgeon who had been suspended by court order for some reason | 22:56 |
| LjL | de-facto, not really | 22:56 |
| de-facto | hmm | 22:56 |
| LjL | i was given the paper with general expected things from Pfizer *or* Moderna, not even specific to Pfizer | 22:56 |
| LjL | and the doctor didn't even reply when i said "good evening" | 22:56 |
| ublx | was the doctor italian? | 22:57 |
| LjL | he was all just preoccupied that someone seemed to have tampered with his computer's login | 22:57 |
| LjL | some people are shit | 22:57 |
| LjL | ublx, please | 22:57 |
| de-facto | i felt very well informed actually i did not had any questions left and then it was like, him asking if i take the shot and he explicitly wanted to hear "YES!" | 22:57 |
| LjL | de-facto, well that sounds like Germany | 22:57 |
| LjL | and what i've heard from other places sounds like other places | 22:57 |
| LjL | what i've experienced in Italy felt like Italy | 22:58 |
| LjL | so no surprise i guess, but i was annoyed | 22:58 |
| LjL | ublx, i take the please back since i just did the same myself | 22:58 |
| de-facto | yeah anyhow you probably know much more about all the shots than that doc there by now :P | 22:58 |
| ublx | for me, first jab was by nurse, for second i suspected the fellow was a doctor but i didn't ask | 22:58 |
| LjL | ublx, i think only doctors are allowed to do them here. but thankfully it wasn't THAT doctor, that was just the one who asked me questions. i would have been real scared if he had been the one jabbing me. he looked like he could barely read, comprehend, or type (though he sure kept trying, looking at my answers, that were all "No", like 3 times, taking a minute or two each time) | 22:59 |
| LjL | i also fully saw what he typed about me on the computer | 23:00 |
| LjL | was slow enough i could observe each keystroke | 23:00 |
| LjL | but... i've seen that with doctors before | 23:00 |
| de-facto | actually the guy at the computer registration, he made a bit of a frustrated impression on me, but hey he just had to register me, and ask me the standard questions the zillionth time (for him) probably, so heh i can understand that he is not super motivated about that, yet he was friendly and did his part | 23:01 |
| LjL | de-facto, a smile and a greeting and a thank you from both sides goes a long way when people are nervous | 23:02 |
| de-facto | yes definitely | 23:02 |
| de-facto | very glad you got exactly the shot you were hoping for LjL :) | 23:07 |
| de-facto | finally :D | 23:07 |
| LjL | well i would have been fine with Moderna too :P | 23:21 |
| LjL | one annoying thing is the second jab will be on saturday afternoon, too | 23:21 |
| LjL | if all saturdays are crowded like this... | 23:22 |
| de-facto | you got second appointment already set? | 23:26 |
| de-facto | at what duration from primer? | 23:26 |
| de-facto | and btw: its AWESOME that its crowded there, this means they are making progress :D | 23:27 |
| de-facto | although all waiting seats were in use i did not had the impression that the center where i went was at full cap, i guess they could have done more vaccination rates (but maybe that was a wrong impression) | 23:28 |
| de-facto | no queues anywhere, only waiting on separated chairs, yet never more than two steps to go into any of those cabins | 23:28 |
| LjL | de-facto, well i'd have preferred to see more bottleneck at the actual *vaccination* instead of at the bureaucracy parts | 23:29 |
| LjL | i think vaccinations, while obviously needed, can be large sources of infection | 23:29 |
| LjL | you have hundreds of people in one enclosed space | 23:29 |
| LjL | so making things as simple and quick as possible would help | 23:29 |
| LjL | if there's many people to vaccinate, there's many people to vaccinate, can't help that | 23:30 |
| LjL | but if the bottleneck is scanning barcodes and things like that... | 23:30 |
| LjL | i didn't have to wait almost *at all* for the actual vaccination | 23:30 |
| LjL | anyway, second shot is on July 10 | 23:30 |
| LjL | so at least well within the 21-48 days range | 23:30 |
| de-facto | nice mine is on July 13th | 23:31 |
| de-facto | so pretty much similar | 23:31 |
| de-facto | yeah the actual vaccination itself also was taking the least time at that center where i went there | 23:31 |
| de-facto | probably could indeed be improved, but maybe they just organized it well so i did not have to wait in any queues | 23:32 |
| de-facto | at the center itself i did not feel like i was exposed to more infection risk than in any super market or such | 23:32 |
| de-facto | in the public transport on my way to there though, i have to admit i switched from FFP2 to FFP3 because it was so crowded | 23:33 |
| LjL | maybe i should have asked for the right arm after all, i just realized that i have this habit of bumping into walls and somehow i always hit the left arm on the vaccine spot | 23:33 |
| de-facto | hahaha maybe a good way to get rid of that habit :P | 23:34 |
| de-facto | yeah i am also not determined if i want to ask for same arm (left) or the other arm (right) next time | 23:34 |
| de-facto | i mean on one hand it may prime the lymph nodes on both sides then, but maybe it would be more efficient to refine the same side where the primer shot went? | 23:35 |
| de-facto | maybe it does not matter at all because its systemic? not sure | 23:35 |
| de-facto | doc said most common would be to get it into the same arm for 2nd shot | 23:36 |
| Arsanerit | Here from Monday anyone can be vaccinated, but apparently actual appointments are assigned randomly as soon as prio groups are done, so there's no point in rushing to register as soon as they open. | 23:36 |
| de-facto | my father said i should take the arm where i would not sleep, because it hurts to lay on it | 23:36 |
| LjL | de-facto, he asked me which arm while he was still at the computer, so i suspect they keep track of which arm they did it on, and so i won't be able to choose next time | 23:36 |
| de-facto | also good point actually since a good night sleep is immunogenic | 23:36 |
| LjL | but it's just my supposition | 23:36 |
| Arsanerit | Does it really matter if the second shot is in the same arm? | 23:36 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, probably not, but it's a matter of doing things reproducibly | 23:37 |
| Arsanerit | I'm not sure anyone registered what arm I was vaccinated with. | 23:37 |
| Arsanerit | I don't remember seeing a computer in the vaccination cubicle, but it all went so fast. | 23:37 |
| lavadonut | i got moderna | 23:37 |
| de-facto | for me there was one guy at the computer and putting the charge number sticker in my vaccination pass, while the doc did the injection, so he could have documented the process digitally, i did not see what he entered in there | 23:38 |
| de-facto | lavadonut, congratz me too 4 days ago | 23:38 |
| Arsanerit | Oh, I got my certificate only at checkout. | 23:38 |
| de-facto | i asked for that, they did not give me any certs, only the yellow vaccination pass | 23:39 |
| Arsanerit | Which makes me wonder, if I had said "no" in the doctor's cubicle how would they know at checkout...? | 23:39 |
| Arsanerit | I got a certificate because I didn't have my Impfausweis yet at the time. | 23:39 |
| de-facto | the official WHO vaccination pass where they put in all the stickers and signatures | 23:39 |
| lavadonut | i didn't have to pay anything | 23:39 |
| de-facto | lavadonut, first or second shot? | 23:39 |
| lavadonut | got 2nd shot 2 weeks ago | 23:39 |
| Arsanerit | I never had one, baby and childhood vaccines in The Neherlands go in a different booklet. | 23:39 |
| Arsanerit | I have one now. | 23:39 |
| de-facto | lavadonut, now i am curious, how was the 2nd shot Moderna compared to the 1st in terms of side effects? | 23:40 |
| lavadonut | 1st barely any, 2nd was full-on flu-like fever/chills for a day | 23:40 |
| lavadonut | it was actually pretty bad :') | 23:40 |
| de-facto | interesting thats what i keep hearing from many people | 23:41 |
| de-facto | how soon did those begin after the booster injection? | 23:41 |
| lavadonut | ~6 hours | 23:41 |
| de-facto | oh interesting some said 12h-24h | 23:41 |
| de-facto | yeah i guess that means it worked (if 2nd shot is that much different from 1st) | 23:42 |
| de-facto | for me primer was ~3h after injection injection muscle began to hurt and i was tired the next day a bit, after 3 days nothing at all anymore, even squeezing the muscle no pain anymore | 23:43 |
| Arsanerit | lavadonut: are you male or female or diverse?\ | 23:43 |
| de-facto | i guess i will see how the booster will be for me then... | 23:43 |
| lavadonut | what is diverse? | 23:43 |
| de-facto | lavadonut, how long did those side effects last for your booster shot? | 23:47 |
| Arsanerit | lavadonut: diverse is someone who is not clearly male or female | 23:48 |
| lavadonut | i had the shot in the morning, and i was able to go back to (zoom) work the next morning (..barely) | 23:48 |
| lavadonut | diverse = intersex? | 23:49 |
| de-facto | so more than 24h? | 23:49 |
| lavadonut | the fever/chills were done within 24h | 23:49 |
| de-facto | good to know some time frame, just in case :D | 23:49 |
| lavadonut | i'd get it on a friday if you can lol | 23:50 |
| de-facto | yeah i am not scared of that, just good to know what to expect for booster | 23:50 |
| lavadonut | even though the fever was done, i didn't get that much sleep that night | 23:50 |
| de-facto | i think im scheduled on Tuesday morning | 23:50 |
| ublx | i didn't really get any reaction to either jab. perhaps just because old indifferent immune system | 23:50 |
| de-facto | which vaccine? | 23:51 |
| ublx | pfizer | 23:51 |
| lavadonut | i'm 30 f | 23:51 |
| ublx | actually, i recall being a bit tired, now that i mention it | 23:51 |
| de-facto | interesting, my father also got BioNTech/Pfizer and he said he did not hay any side effects other than his arm hurting, on both primer and booster, but he is in his mid 70s | 23:52 |
| de-facto | i am ~40 | 23:52 |
| lavadonut | oh i got a bad sore arm too | 23:52 |
| lavadonut | oddly, after the first shot, the sore arm was moderate for like a week, but after the second shot, it was severe for a day and then much better after that | 23:52 |
| de-facto | interesting | 23:53 |
| de-facto | well maybe immune system gets rid of it much quicker second time, but also with a more aggressive reaction? | 23:54 |
| de-facto | (speculating...) | 23:54 |
| de-facto | how long did it take for 2nd shot till you felt fully free of any side effects lavadonut ? | 23:56 |
| lavadonut | stopped keeping track, i was just so happy for the fever to be gone | 23:57 |
| lavadonut | anything after that was mild | 23:57 |
| de-facto | yeah i can imagine that | 23:58 |
| de-facto | so a few more days of mild effects like fatigue? | 23:59 |
| lavadonut | something like that | 23:59 |
| de-facto | yeah would make sense | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
