| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: G-7 nations expected to pledge 1B vaccine doses for world → https://is.gd/vvCPmm | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Comment] From routine data collection to policy design: sex and gender both matter in COVID-19: Vaccine equity is a growing concern of COVID-19 vaccination roll-outs and uptake globally. Gender has a role in vaccine uptake1 but goes largely unrecognised in vaccine policies and programmes, undermining attempts to ensure [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NDTlTO | 00:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Study shows hydroxychloroquine and zinc treatments increased coronavirus survival rate by almost three times → https://is.gd/qvBlhR | 01:10 |
| Lindisfarne | im sure it was the zinc | 01:11 |
| Lindisfarne | HCQ was pushed by grifters | 01:12 |
| finely[m] | <Brainstorm "New from r/WorldNews: worldnews:"> What a shit show. Billions fewer doses than we need. | 01:32 |
| finely[m] | <LjL "more fire over AZ in Italy... a "> That's sad. It seems the risk of this decreases with age, and the severity of clotting decreases with age. | 01:34 |
| LjL | finely[m], yes, so it's not clear that we should be giving it (even optionally) to young people, especially young women, also considering we have no problems with Pfizer supply right now | 01:37 |
| finely[m] | It you have Pfizer, of should be an easy decision. | 01:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +20 deaths (now 25852) since 23 hours ago | 02:01 |
| LjL | bin, https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 is the "old" phase 3 paper for Pfizer (the latest interim that i'm aware of), it may not have the exact same data as in the latest press release, but it tells you how many participants were in the vaccine vs placebo arm at least, and how many cases (i think the final adds 1 in the vaccine group?) | 02:18 |
| bin | cool | 02:18 |
| bin | thats awesome | 02:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: T.O. firm co-sponsors psilocybin trial to treat front-line clinicians experiencing COVID-related distress → https://is.gd/LJHcS8 | 02:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Palestine: +474 cases (now 311018), +4 deaths (now 3524) since 2 days ago — United Kingdom: +5408 cases (now 4.5 million), +5 deaths (now 127996) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +2337 cases (now 1.7 million), +9 deaths (now 17840) since 21 hours ago | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virology.ws: Holiday travel explains spread of a SARS-CoV-2 variant: The emergence and spread throughout Europe of a SARS-CoV-2 variant, 20E (EU1) in the summer of 2020 illustrates how a virus may become dominant not by increased transmissibility but through travel and lack of effective containment and screening. The SARS-CoV-2 variant 20E [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CPkkVV | 02:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Indian state sharply raises COVID-19 death toll prompting call for wide review → https://is.gd/rDut6X | 02:56 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ecuador: +2153 cases (now 436023), +46 deaths (now 20949) since a day ago — India: +31547 cases (now 29.2 million), +3367 deaths (now 359676) since 18 hours ago | 03:04 |
| LjL | bin, what i mean is that i want to engage here, and i want this to be the COVID community that used to be on freenode before, and i'll nudge the people who are still there to move here. i won't start having a COVID debate on that side, as i do not really want to revive it. | 03:10 |
| bin | LjL: yeah that makes sense. I think the exodus from that channel is going to continue | 03:10 |
| LjL | this network isn't perfect, and i have my gripes with staff (as i did before), but it's like comparing a car with a broken air conditioner to one without brakes | 03:11 |
| bin | yeah agred | 03:11 |
| Lindisfarne | I think open source contributors can rightfully assume that their backdooring implies shoulder-jumping of IP by patent trolls, at a minimum | 03:12 |
| bn_mobile | Is it safer to talk over here? | 03:16 |
| LjL | bn_mobile, i would think so | 03:17 |
| LjL | potentially at least | 03:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iran: +12398 cases (now 3.0 million), +153 deaths (now 81672) since a day ago | 03:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: European Commission increasingly isolated on COVID patent waivers: French president Emmanuel Macron and the European Parliament endorsed making vaccines more available to the poor. → https://is.gd/m2uIHc | 04:10 |
| LjL | hmm | 04:16 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Evidence grows stronger for Covid vaccine link to heart issue, CDC says → https://is.gd/2Xnwbc | 04:16 |
| LjL | we could do without this | 04:16 |
| bn_mobile | So LjL , back to the topic of the Pfizer-BioNTech phase 3 results https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577, the #s look strange, so basically of the ones that got infected : 8(+1)/21,720 in vaccine group vs 162/21,728 in placebo group. Both are less than 1% | 04:19 |
| LjL | bn_mobile, is that surprising though? it says it's a "multinational" study and right now i don't really know where the participants were from, but | 04:20 |
| LjL | %cases Lombardy | 04:20 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Lombardy, Italy, there have been 838341 confirmed cases (8.3% of the population) and 33696 deaths (4.0% of cases) as of 20 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardy for time series data. | 04:20 |
| LjL | i live in one of the hardest-hit regions, and it's still "just" 8.3% of the population (okay, that's the identified cases, anyway) | 04:21 |
| LjL | consider that in the Pfizer trial they also looked at symptomatic cases, too | 04:21 |
| LjL | and how long did it last? certainly less than the whole pandemic | 04:21 |
| LjL | did it last less than 1/8 of the time the pandemic went on in Lombardy? | 04:21 |
| LjL | all in all i'd say that depending on exactly which regions the trial was done on and at which times, 1% infections isn't necessarily less than expected | 04:25 |
| bn_mobile | LjL: I meant that if both placebo & experimental group are both effectively 1%, wouldn't that pretty much mean (dare I say) not much benefit in getting the vaccine? | 04:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Jamaica: +170 cases (now 49110), +18 deaths (now 989) since 8 hours ago — Ivory Coast: +58 cases (now 47605) since a day ago — Sierra Leone: +38 cases (now 4289) since a day ago — Lesotho: +7 cases (now 10846) since 2 days ago | 04:31 |
| bn_mobile | (based solely on the #s) | 04:31 |
| LjL | bn_mobile, uh, err? 8/21720 = 0.00037, while 162/21728 = 0.0074. it's an order of magnitude more. 0.0037/0.0074 = 0.05, i.e. if my math is right, exactly that 5% that got the infection despite getting the vaccine, whereas 95% didn't | 04:32 |
| LjL | they're both "under 1%" but one is sort of 1%, the other is *a lot less* than 1% | 04:33 |
| bn_mobile | 9 (vaccinated) vs 162 (placebo) out of 21,72X, is that statically significant? | 04:33 |
| LjL | looks pretty darned significant | 04:33 |
| LjL | the denominators are roughly the same | 04:33 |
| LjL | and large | 04:33 |
| LjL | 9 vs 162 is as significant as it gets | 04:34 |
| LjL | the paper comes with confidence intervals though i'm sure | 04:34 |
| bn_mobile | Sorry, yes, I rounded up for both to 1%, & yes, it's an order of magnitude different | 04:36 |
| LjL | if this disease were even more devastatingly infectious than it is, you may come up with bigger numbers in both arms, but given that thankfully it isn't (or we'd have all been infected well before any vaccines were ready), you have to expect that even though you take as big a sample as 20000+20000 people, the actual cases will be few. but still, the difference looks very significant. i do not know how to calculate confidence interval and p, honestly, so i'm just | 04:39 |
| LjL | calling it significant intuitively, but the paper comes with a confidence interval and there is no reason to believe that's statistically false (someone would've called it out) | 04:39 |
| LjL | also, real-world third-party population studies (such as in Israel) have confirmed a >90% vaccine efficacy for Pfizer, which is consistent with their paper | 04:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israeli oral Coronavirus vaccine proven effective as booster in preclinical trial → https://is.gd/Ya30OF | 04:42 |
| LjL | %tell de-facto oral vaccine in Israel: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/HkASG51sd | 04:44 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I'll pass de-facto your message when they are around. | 04:44 |
| bn_mobile | That's what I was about to ask next: what the confidence intervals were | 04:47 |
| bn_mobile | > Among participants with and those with- out evidence of prior SARS CoV-2 infection, 9 cases of Covid-19 at least 7 days after the second dose were observed among vaccine recipients and 169 among placebo recipients, corresponding to 94.6% vaccine efficacy (95% CI, 89.9 to 97.3) | 04:47 |
| bn_mobile | How are they getting 94.6%? | 04:48 |
| LjL | right. that's a pretty good confidence interval isn't it? | 04:49 |
| LjL | well it's the same as i got, roughly. i got 95% but i rounded the numbers a little | 04:49 |
| LjL | that's the center point, the "spot value". the actual vaccine efficacy is very liely to lie within the confidence interval though | 04:49 |
| bn_mobile | I would hardly expected it to be 1-(9/21720), no? | 04:49 |
| bn_mobile | blah | 04:50 |
| LjL | but that's not what it is | 04:50 |
| LjL | i made the calculations earlier | 04:50 |
| bn_mobile | s/hardly/have/ | 04:50 |
| bn_mobile | Damn autocomplete | 04:50 |
| LjL | you have to compare the amount that got it with the vaccine to the amount that got it with placebo | 04:50 |
| LjL | otherwise why would you even have a placebo arm? | 04:50 |
| LjL | your formula isn't doing that | 04:50 |
| bn_mobile | So effectiveness against placebo , hence the division you did earlier of the two rates? | 04:51 |
| LjL | the formula is... ugh de-facto would be better at this, but, 1-(9/21720)/(162/21728) | 04:52 |
| LjL | yeah | 04:52 |
| LjL | at least i think, i should pay more attention to the maths, but hey, the numbers check out | 04:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: CDC looking into reports of heart inflammation after Pfizer, Moderna vaccine second jab → https://is.gd/2C5acm | 04:53 |
| LjL | second jab in particular :\ | 04:53 |
| LjL | this bothers me a lot more than the (high) efficacy | 04:53 |
| LjL | hopefully it won't become another AstraZeneca | 04:54 |
| LjL | at least it seems to be a lot milder than what happens with AZ | 04:55 |
| bn_mobile | LjL: so do you all have the Pfizer-BioNTech one over there? If so, would you get it if you had a choice? It seems more effective than the other vaccines from what I've been reading although it too seems to have recently become associated with heart inflammation in younger vaccine recipients | 05:02 |
| LjL | bn_mobile, we have Pfizer, AstraZeneca, Moderna, and J&J, i'd say in roughly this order of availability. Pfizer is overwhelmingly more used than the others, though, although AZ was used a lot previously. i have gotten Pfizer last saturday. it wasn't exactly a choice, but it's the choice i'd have made if i had had a choice. both AZ and now Pfizer show signs of possible rare side effects, but, they are rare, and the thing that concerns me the most is the efficacy | 05:04 |
| LjL | (especially against variants, and the AZ trial in South Africa didn't shine at all) | 05:04 |
| bn_mobile | You didn't have a choice? | 05:05 |
| bn_mobile | LjL | 05:08 |
| LjL | bn_mobile, we can't choose our vaccine in Lombardy. we don't even *know* what vaccine we'll get until we're there and are shown the paperwork. the only choice is to accept it, or walk away (and end up at the bottom of the list) | 05:09 |
| LjL | since Italy's healthcare is region-based, other regions do it differently. in Latium, apparently they can choose their vaccine. | 05:09 |
| LjL | in Sicily, there have been so many refusals to take AZ that they have shipped their excess AZ to other regions. | 05:09 |
| bn_mobile | LjL: oh, I thought you meant they forced you to take a vaccine :) | 05:12 |
| LjL | bn_mobile, that isn't on the table at this time, except for healthcare workers, and maybe teachers | 05:12 |
| LjL | (but even for those categories, it's just "being considered") | 05:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: G-7 nations expected to pledge 1 billion Covid-19 vaccine doses for world → https://is.gd/vXp8M7 | 05:14 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +5426 cases (now 4.5 million), +5 deaths (now 127997) since 21 hours ago — France: +36 deaths (now 110324) since 7 hours ago — Netherlands: +2295 cases (now 1.7 million), +9 deaths (now 17841) since 21 hours ago — Eritrea: +76 cases (now 4766), +2 deaths (now 16) since a day ago | 05:33 |
| bn_mobile | LjL: youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A | 05:59 |
| bn_mobile | interesting discussion on the efficacy rates & difficulties in comparing them. | 06:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +846 cases (now 1.1 million), +7 deaths (now 25068) since a day ago | 06:10 |
| LjL | bn_mobile, yeah, that's interesting. and indeed it's very hard to compare. people tend to end up in camps, i'm in the mRNA camp partly because AZ has just seemed to make so many blunders and their efficacy rates are anything from 60% to 90% depending which trial / agency you ask. which may actually just corroborate what the video says... but i dunno, AZ had terrible efficacy on the SA variant when tested specifically in SA when most of the cases where that | 06:13 |
| LjL | variant. i also still maintain they couldn't demonstrate that it even prevents severe cases, too few people to say (around 20 vaccinated people got COVID anyway, and also 20 unvaccinated people, so zero efficacy, but none of the vaccinated got *severe* COVID, which they initially called "100% efficacy against severe cases", but that's a bit bullshit because those 20 people were young and fit, and you wouldn't necessarily expect any of them to become a severe case | 06:13 |
| LjL | or die) | 06:13 |
| LjL | i also disagree with that video on whether or not we should aim for "zero covid". i think we should, and any vaccine that actually prevents infections and transmission is welcome. | 06:13 |
| LjL | the "100% efficacy against death" is also not the full story. they seem to have high efficacy against death, but in many cases in real populations it has proven to be less than 100%. i think it's not smart to "promise" people 100% efficacy against death, because then if someone died, what do you tell them? they'll think you lied. | 06:15 |
| LjL | so this video is reasonable but with some caveats, imo | 06:15 |
| bn_mobile | Did the video say not to aim for "zero covid"? | 06:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for St. Vin. and Gren.: +40 cases (now 2132) since 2 days ago | 06:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Covid 19: Here’s how to improve lung function with physiotherapy → https://is.gd/56kA3b | 06:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Venezuela says payments to COVAX vaccine system have been blocked → https://is.gd/njfSsI | 07:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China invites Taiwanese to come to get vaccinated against COVID-19 → https://is.gd/GP7REk | 07:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Catalonia, Spain: +10386 cases (now 629143), +84 deaths (now 14690) since a day ago — England, United Kingdom: +6275 cases (now 4.0 million), +5 deaths (now 112463) since a day ago — Moscow, Russia: +5245 cases (now 1.2 million), +63 deaths (now 20711) since a day ago — Paraiba, Brazil: +3911 cases (now 352264), +46 deaths (now 8003) since a day ago | 07:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mongolia: +1622 cases (now 72104), +8 deaths (now 342) since a day ago | 08:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kyrgyzstan: +526 cases (now 109193), +7 deaths (now 1876) since a day ago | 09:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | June 11, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/2JPiAa | 09:09 |
| b3z- | %cases germany | 09:49 |
| Brainstorm | b3z-: In Germany, there have been 3.7 million confirmed cases (4.5% of the population) and 89934 deaths (2.4% of cases) as of 3 hours ago. 62.3 million tests were performed (6.0% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.8% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 09:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: News: International regulators and WHO address need to boost COVID-19 vaccine confidence → https://is.gd/1ZyYpR | 10:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: General: COVID-19: latest updates → https://is.gd/ejWHzQ | 10:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Meghalaya, India: +603 cases (now 40586), +10 deaths (now 704) since a day ago | 10:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China invites Taiwanese to come to get vaccinated against COVID-19 → https://is.gd/V88VFZ | 10:34 |
| bn_mobile | What the heck is going on with Walgreens? | 10:55 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +12505 cases (now 5.2 million), +396 deaths (now 125674) since 23 hours ago | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: As Delta Variant Rises, Hospital Suspends 178 Employees for Not Getting Vaccinated Against COVID-19 → https://is.gd/DZJ7od | 11:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: Groups warn that UK vaccine pledge may be too little, too late → https://is.gd/5e9Zol | 11:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from ScienceNews: Here’s what you should know about COVID-19 vaccine booster shots: No one knows if coronavirus booster shots will be necessary. But researchers are working on figuring that out. → https://is.gd/69NZdx | 12:09 |
| ottavio | Is it safe to fast before getting a vaccine? | 12:17 |
| dTal | Safe? Sure. Recommended? I wouldn't | 12:21 |
| zutt | ottavio: you should consult your doctor for that question, but in general if you're not in the healthiest state when you're getting /any/ vaccination, the side effects might be worse | 12:21 |
| ottavio | dTal: what about after? | 12:24 |
| darsie | I heard fasting is pointless. | 12:25 |
| ottavio | darsie: you are | 12:26 |
| zutt | thats quite uncalled for.. there are so many reasons to fast.. not all of them are for a good reason, and not all of them are for health reasons.. | 12:27 |
| ottavio | zutt: this is not the point. | 12:27 |
| ottavio | Mine was a specific question. I am not asking advice on whether fasting is pointless or not. | 12:28 |
| ottavio | I have been practicing periodic fasting for ages and I have had multiple benefits. | 12:29 |
| zutt | ottavio: yeah, I understood that.. I was trying to say that people who fast usually do it because they need to | 12:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Puerto Rico: +61 cases (now 122454), +4 deaths (now 2529) since a day ago | 12:29 |
| zutt | and I also personally do fast occasionally too, not very often these days.. but it's quite nice | 12:29 |
| ottavio | zutt: once again, thanks but I am not looking for do-gooders that tell me I shouldn't fast. | 12:29 |
| ottavio | Anybody who says fasting is pointless is either a troll or a complete moron, here Ive said it | 12:30 |
| zutt | I am not telling you that you shouldn't fast, really | 12:30 |
| zutt | I agree that they are trolls | 12:30 |
| ottavio | zutt i wasnt referring to you | 12:30 |
| ottavio | Derailing a question is quite rude in my book. | 12:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Taiwan says Thailand is prioritising AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines for itself and not sending them to Taiwan → https://is.gd/cJu15Q | 12:31 |
| dTal | ottavio nobody in here is a troll or a moron | 12:32 |
| dTal | they get kicked out :) | 12:32 |
| dTal | re fasting, I think if ever there's a time to maximally fuel your body, it's around a vaccine | 12:33 |
| dTal | I also frequently skip meals, I don't think it's healthy to have 3 square meals every single day of your life | 12:34 |
| dTal | but immune response puts load on your system, you want to make sure you're generating as many antibodies as possible and not bottlenecking on some micronutrient or other | 12:34 |
| mambang[m] | > New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Taiwan says Thailand is prioritising AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines for itself and not sending them to Taiwan → https://is.gd/cJu15Q | 12:37 |
| mambang[m] | haha.. and Malaysia expecting Thailand gonna send to them | 12:37 |
| ottavio | What about Muslims who do ramadan and have a jab? That should kill them, right? | 12:37 |
| ottavio | ^^^ irony intended here ^^^ | 12:38 |
| darsie | It's been a long time since I heard that and it's been quite general, IIRC. Maybe there are benefits in some cases, idk. I believe a lot of it is unfounded. Make informed decisions and be responsible. | 12:41 |
| darsie | A healthy diet is best, ofc. | 12:43 |
| de-facto | i think it also works with minor deficits, but then there might be unused potential in it working better without such deficits, be it nutrition, sleep or regeneration or metabolism | 12:44 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: At 2021-06-11 02:44:26 UTC, LjL told you: oral vaccine in Israel: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/HkASG51sd | 12:44 |
| ottavio | darsie> A healthy diet is best, ofc. define "Healthy diet". Vegan, vegetarian, keto, carnivore, Nutella, kosher, my cousin who knows everything's diet? | 12:45 |
| ottavio | My GP says I should eat more bread and potatoes because they're healthy. | 12:46 |
| ublx | i suppose that would depend on what you were eating instead of bread and potatoes | 12:47 |
| ottavio | My GP says I should eat bananas and peanut butter, no kidding. | 12:47 |
| de-facto | .tell LjL very interesting thanks for the link about MigVax-101 | 12:47 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, I'll pass LjL your message when they are around. | 12:47 |
| ottavio | So my GP thinks that a diet of bread, bananas, peanut butter and potatoes is healthy. | 12:48 |
| darsie | Mostly plant based, with carbohydrates, proteins, fats. If destroying nature doesn't bother you, some fish is healthy. Dunno about meat, dairy or eggs. | 12:48 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.migvax.com/science | 12:48 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.migvax.com: The Science | MigVax | 12:48 |
| ottavio | Never mind 3/4 of the population in Western countries are obese. | 12:48 |
| ottavio | If destroying nature doesn't bother you, some fish is healthy . Ok enough with that. | 12:49 |
| darsie | I eat mostly vegan food for environmental reasons. | 12:49 |
| de-facto | i dont think the very concept of "diet" makes any sense, why reducing variety instead of quantity? | 12:49 |
| ottavio | darsie: thanks another one in my ignore list | 12:49 |
| darsie | yw | 12:50 |
| de-facto | for me variety is key to prevent unknown deficits reducing it therefore means increasing risks of deficits | 12:50 |
| ottavio | de-facto: your statement is so generic that it makes no sense at all | 12:50 |
| de-facto | i intentionally made it generic, because its about the very concept at abstract level | 12:51 |
| * darsie gets some chocolate ... | 12:52 | |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Unvaccinated most at risk from Delta variant: There have been nearly 30,000 new cases of the variant in the past week. → https://is.gd/taz9n5 | 12:52 |
| ottavio | de-facto: all of us have a diet, whether you like it or not. In the old times, people ate what they had in their garden. | 12:53 |
| ottavio | That's a diet. | 12:53 |
| ottavio | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_(nutrition) | 12:53 |
| ottavio | " diet is the sum of food consumed by a person or other organism." | 12:53 |
| ottavio | It is impossible to eat a bit of everything. | 12:54 |
| de-facto | for some nutrition it may make sense to reduce quantity, and it also could make sense to change from time to time, but i think in general having as much variety as possible in the diet is a good idea | 12:54 |
| de-facto | yeah ofc its an ideal, not a goal that ever can be reached | 12:54 |
| ottavio | It still doesn't make sense. You can not not restrict your diet. You don'thave unlimited access to all possible food. | 12:55 |
| de-facto | really? i can get pretty much everything i want here, if not locally i order it in the internet | 12:55 |
| ottavio | A "healthy diet" just does not exist. It's a marketing slogan used by corporations to push that crappy food they market as healthy. | 12:55 |
| darsie | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_diet | 12:55 |
| ottavio | de-facto: I'm pretty convinced that you have no idea of what you are talking about, but that's just my opinion and I am not selling it as truth as you do. | 12:56 |
| * ublx apparently stumbled into ##dietculturewars by mistkae | 12:56 | |
| ublx | *mistake | 12:56 |
| ottavio | ublx: Miss Take? | 12:57 |
| de-facto | i stated the reasons for understanding for the importance of variety: very simply avoiding *unknown* deficits (those for which we dont know about by tests etc) | 12:57 |
| de-facto | but sure ottavio, you can be convinced about the opposite, just dont expect others to follow you without providing reasons for that | 12:58 |
| ottavio | de-facto: can I ask you how old you are? You sound young and naive. Man has not developed on earth with food variety. Man has been eating whatever they found. | 12:59 |
| de-facto | i am 139 years old | 12:59 |
| ottavio | So are you saying that the Eskimos are idiots because they basically eat only fish? | 12:59 |
| ottavio | de-facto: more like 13.9. | 12:59 |
| de-facto | lol alright | 13:00 |
| ottavio | amen | 13:00 |
| ottavio | what pisses me off is that my Gp talks the same crap. | 13:00 |
| ottavio | We have diabetes because the medical profession told us we shouldn't eat meat or butter or cheese. | 13:01 |
| ottavio | But cornflakes? Yes go ahead. | 13:01 |
| ottavio | Diabetes kills more than Covid. | 13:02 |
| ublx | are you in UK, ottavio? | 13:02 |
| ottavio | ublx: unfortunately | 13:03 |
| ublx | i mean, if you are concerning yourself in detail with effective differences between veganism, keto, etc, you're already way past the point a GP has time to entertain | 13:04 |
| ublx | unless there are specific medical factors relating to your diet that the doctor has to consider | 13:05 |
| ottavio | yeah but the way the system works is that I need to go through my GP and I have to convince him/her that I deserve help | 13:06 |
| ublx | with diet? | 13:06 |
| ottavio | For example blood tests, which I passed in full despite eating a pseudo-keto diet that should be "unhealthy" | 13:06 |
| ottavio | I am not on keto anymore btw, I'm having a lot of personal shit | 13:07 |
| ublx | why wouldn't you pass general blood work tests under a pseudo-keto diet? | 13:07 |
| ottavio | because that's what the NHS says, that keto kills | 13:07 |
| ottavio | paraphrasing... | 13:07 |
| ottavio | NHS; Keto = no good | 13:08 |
| ottavio | Sugar = good | 13:08 |
| ublx | if by pseudo you mean you are not being a fanatic about getting carbohydrates down below 5% | 13:08 |
| ottavio | I used to go below 5% before the aforementioned shit | 13:08 |
| ublx | i don't exactly interact with the nhs on this point but i struggle to believe they have teams waving banners about how good sugar is | 13:09 |
| ottavio | I lost 25 kgs in 3 years with keto and regained 10 in 3 months after quitting keto | 13:09 |
| ottavio | ublx: well, if you say that fats and proteins are bad, what is left? Of course they won't say that sugar is good. | 13:10 |
| ublx | tbf, keto IS dangerous if you do it blindly and are capable of ignoring your body's response to it | 13:10 |
| ottavio | https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-weight/why-we-need-to-eat-carbs/ | 13:11 |
| ottavio | ublx: scientific evidence? I can give you 10s of studies about the benefits of ketones. | 13:11 |
| ottavio | Forget the diet thing. Its the ketones that are good. | 13:11 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Pubblicazione degli elenchi della associazioni culturali ammesse e non ammesse al riparto del 2X1000 dell'IRPEF ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/pubblicazione-degli-elenchi-della-associazioni-culturali-ammesse-e-non-ammesse-al-riparto ) | 13:12 | |
| ottavio | wtf is this^^^^ | 13:12 |
| ottavio | The NHS are repeating the old lie that ketosis = ketoacidosis | 13:13 |
| ottavio | What a fucking lie and how dishonest they are | 13:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. Each row/entry contains the number of new cases and deaths reported per day and per country in the EU/EEA. → https://is.gd/tBASDi | 13:13 |
| ublx | for the westerner accustomed to decades of three carbohydrate/sugar rich meals a day, it is a wrenching change to make, and one that would be all too easy to lead to malnutrition in the interim | 13:14 |
| ottavio | If you're not diabetic there is zero chance that you can develop ketoacidosis simply by cutting carbs | 13:14 |
| ottavio | ublx: yes but its my choice Im not imposing it on evrybody like the vegan fanatics do. | 13:15 |
| ottavio | Its easy for corporations to sell vegan food for a profit . | 13:16 |
| ottavio | The NHS are still banging on ketoacidosis in <insert date here>. What a bunch of liars and morons. | 13:16 |
| ublx | hmm | 13:16 |
| ottavio | And GPs are repeating it like parrots | 13:17 |
| ublx | GPing is hard | 13:17 |
| ublx | as i say, you're likely well beyond the point of study where it's appropriate for you to detain the nhs/your gp. just do what you have to do. | 13:17 |
| ottavio | yes but they make a lot of money | 13:17 |
| ottavio | ublx: I have to lie to my GP to get a fucking blood test. What justice is this? | 13:18 |
| ublx | it's inevitable that one will have to editatorialise when presenting one's case to a GP | 13:19 |
| ublx | i wouldn't call that injustice | 13:19 |
| ottavio | ha ha | 13:19 |
| ublx | just time management | 13:19 |
| ublx | time management in 10 minute interviews is your responsibility and the GP's | 13:19 |
| ottavio | I thought GPs were there to help me, not me to help them ticking their boxes but I was naive | 13:20 |
| ottavio | Now I know better | 13:20 |
| ottavio | Basically calling a GP is like calling Ebay customer service. | 13:20 |
| ottavio | With the difference that at least Ebay CS is there 24/7. | 13:21 |
| ottavio | They still dont have a clue but at least they say thank you so much for waiting | 13:22 |
| ublx | when a GP goes to their own doctor, to (sensibly) externalise their care, do you think they have difficulty communicating the particulars of their case? | 13:22 |
| ottavio | err GPs are immortal | 13:24 |
| ottavio | I have doctors in the family. They dont trust any of their colleagues | 13:24 |
| ublx | maybe not in the general case but they sure as heck will for specialisations | 13:27 |
| ottavio | In any case, the "real" NHS is good, such as hospitals. | 13:28 |
| ottavio | GPs and dentists are not the real NHS, they are private companies funded by the taxpayer. | 13:28 |
| ottavio | Always had 1st class treatment in hospitals. | 13:29 |
| ottavio | Whenever I was lucky to be referred to a hospital. | 13:29 |
| ublx | if you reeeally think you are a better systems analyst than the average GP, and think you would remain so under the constraints they have to navigate, maybe you should become a GP | 13:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mauritius: +68 cases (now 1564) since a day ago — Germany: +1722 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Dominica: +1 cases (now 189) since 8 days ago | 13:31 |
| ottavio | ublx: I could never become a GP if I wanted to | 13:37 |
| ottavio | Having said that, if I was rich enough to own my own house and my own field, I'd probably become a vegan, but only out of convenience. | 13:38 |
| ottavio | Maybe a handful of chickens as well. | 13:38 |
| ottavio | I like social distancing, can we have it like for ever? | 13:39 |
| ottavio | Social distancing should be the norm. Most people are unhealthy and smell horrible. | 13:39 |
| dTal | you just here to rant or what | 13:42 |
| * finely[m] < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/a609752bdec216e100f5d4f57298edcbc90d93f7/message.txt > | 13:55 | |
| * finely[m] < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/f1d785882a86c55252a315267f527ac9aea7d0ef/message.txt > | 13:56 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Covid-19: conferenza stampa su campagna vaccinale e andamento epidemiologico con Speranza, Figliuolo, Locatelli e Brusaferro ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/covid-19-conferenza-stampa-su-campagna-vaccinale-e-andamento-epidemiologico-con-speranza ) | 14:07 | |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Document: Sotrovimab (also known as VIR-7831 and GSK4182136) - COVID19 - Article-5(3) procedure: Assessment report → https://is.gd/gud5E5 | 14:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for UAE: +2281 cases (now 593894), +3 deaths (now 1720) since 12 hours ago | 14:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Sri Lanka records highest single-day Covid-19 death toll → https://is.gd/H1vXgX | 14:40 |
| ottavio | Has anybody here had their 2nd Astra Zeneca jab? Any side effects? | 14:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: News and press releases: COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen: authorities in EU take steps to safeguard vaccine quality, , 11/06/2021: Authorities in the EU are aware that a batch of the active substance for COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen had been contaminated with materials for another... → https://is.gd/4wAnhh | 15:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +2709 cases (now 604396), +67 deaths (now 8305) since a day ago | 15:11 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +354 cases (now 700051), +5 deaths (now 10858) since 10 hours ago — Germany: +1714 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 15:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Biden joins the world leaders club at G7 with call for wartime effort against Covid-19 → https://is.gd/TJQeIn | 15:56 |
| dTal | phew | 16:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +2454 cases (now 822849), +43 deaths (now 13032) since a day ago | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Expiration Dates on J&J COVID Vaccine Extended: U.S. regulators have extended the expiration date on millions of J&J COVID vaccine doses by six weeks. → https://is.gd/qHRHgN | 16:59 |
| pwr22 | ottavio: my second astra zeneca jab gave me less side effects than my first | 17:06 |
| ottavio | pwr22: ok so if my 1st jab made me feel I was dying, how would the 2nd be? | 17:08 |
| pwr22 | I can't say anything other than my own experience | 17:09 |
| pwr22 | I felt like I had very bad flu for a bit after my first jab | 17:09 |
| pwr22 | The second I just felt a little under the weather | 17:09 |
| ottavio | 1st jab I couldnt move my arms fr 3 days | 17:09 |
| pwr22 | Both of them? Like you were paralysed? | 17:12 |
| ottavio | yes, 1st day | 17:19 |
| ottavio | Horrible feeling | 17:19 |
| pwr22 | I ached all over like really bad flu | 17:20 |
| pwr22 | If you were actually paralysed then I would discuss that with a medical professional | 17:21 |
| pwr22 | Did you see anyone about your reaction? | 17:21 |
| ottavio | That day I rang NHS 111 and I had to struggle to have somebody call me back. | 17:22 |
| LjL | if that's a uh, Italian-Briton sounds like, they sure mix them well | 17:58 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: At 2021-06-11 10:47:20 UTC, de-facto told you: very interesting thanks for the link about MigVax-101 | 17:58 |
| LjL | -them | 17:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Officials flag rare myocarditis cases after Covid vaccination → https://is.gd/V8giTI | 18:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: With just 11% of people fully vaccinated, Brazil plans to allow vaccinated people to not wear face masks - Bolsonaro → https://is.gd/Tsc6Zs | 18:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Lebanon: +435 cases (now 542375), +10 deaths (now 7790) since a day ago | 18:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: Science the fall guy as Hancock seeks to shift blame: England’s health and social care secretary, Matt Hancock, blamed “scientific consensus” for key government failings during the covid-19 pandemic, as he came out fighting against his critics this... → https://is.gd/3VWL2c | 18:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Biden in Europe: Potential coronavirus outbreak on G7 police ship → https://is.gd/R6Mih5 | 19:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cuba: +1288 cases (now 154866), +8 deaths (now 1065) since 22 hours ago — Mozambique: +76 cases (now 71355) since a day ago | 19:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: Preliminary in silico assessment of the specificity of published molecular assays and design of new assays using the available whole genome sequences of 2019-nCoV: Updated to 1,415,475 high coverage COVID-19 WGS from GISAID using BLASTDB version 5. Run Date: 06/08/2021 Table 1. PSET analysis using SARS-CoV-2 as [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/saf6Wi | 20:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +4142 cases (now 3.7 million), +36 deaths (now 80501) since 22 hours ago — Italy: +1892 cases (now 4.2 million), +69 deaths (now 126924) since a day ago | 20:38 |
| Brainstorm | NameError: global name 'CHANNEL' is not defined (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/greet.py", line 5, in remove_on_part) | 20:51 |
| Brainstorm | NameError: global name 'CHANNEL' is not defined (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/greet.py", line 5, in remove_on_part) | 20:52 |
| LjL | uh oh | 20:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +54 deaths (now 110342) since 23 hours ago | 21:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: News Scan for Jun 11, 2021: MIS-C disparities in US kids Muscle inflammation on COVID autopsy UK monkeypox cases More H10N3 avian flu case details New polio effort, cases → https://is.gd/7O0SIO | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: COVID Vacations: Plan, Be Flexible, Travel Safe: It's easy to get lost among the constantly shifting recommendations for summer travel, but consider your vaccine status, how you plan to get where you're going, and what COVID-19 numbers look like at your destination. → https://is.gd/mDSsHV | 21:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Global COVID deaths in 2021 have topped all of last year's: Lianna Matt McLernon | News Writer | CIDRAP News Jun 11, 2021 COVID-19 surges continue in South America, now the hardest-hit continent, and Africa is seeing a host of vaccine issues. → https://is.gd/aduEj7 | 22:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: Trouble for some US COVID-19 vaccines: Stephanie Soucheray and Lisa Schnirring | Staff Writers | CIDRAP News Jun 11, 2021 The FDA says 60 million doses of the one-shot Johnson & Johnson vaccine cannot be used because of possible contamination. → https://is.gd/RAKJ8z | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Monaco: +4 cases (now 2520) since 16 hours ago | 23:31 |
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