| nixonix | just small sample size, topol was skeptical for all their recent results | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | hmm looks like https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/994761/18_June_2021_Risk_assessment_for_SARS-CoV-2_variant_DELTA.pdf is the newest version of that summary, and it no longer mentions AZ | 00:02 |
| LjL | "The acquisition of the mutation K417N, which may be antigenically significant, in a small number of cases is noted." | 00:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israel to give Palestinians a million vaccines, Palestinians reject offer → https://is.gd/uRN8SL | 00:03 |
| nixonix | no it was the other eric: https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1404574475077701640 | 00:05 |
| LjL | nixonix, he basically says that vaccines are not very efficacious and if you look at hospital surges it's clear "we're doomed"...? :\ | 00:06 |
| nixonix | he is a bit alarmist at times | 00:07 |
| LjL | we're basically not going to feel safe even for a couple of months even after we're going to be fully vaccinated :( | 00:07 |
| LjL | not if the vaccines are going to have effectively <50% efficacy over the dominant variant | 00:07 |
| nixonix | lets see when we get more hospitalization data vs 617.2 | 00:08 |
| nixonix | to me it seems, if you get large enough number of virions, you likely get infected even with double doses of pfizer. what the result will be, most often unnoticed asymptomatic perhaps, or then depends on number of virions, hard to say | 00:10 |
| LjL | especially hospitalization data of vaccinated people... i can't make much sense of general hospitalization data about one place where Delta is prevalent without being able to untangle "who is it infecting, were they vaccinated?" | 00:10 |
| Krey[m] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lL3qdR1nQ0 | 00:12 |
| Krey[m] | aAAAAAAAaaAAaaAaaAAaAaaAAaaAAAAa | 00:12 |
| Krey[m] | also where is that person here who told me that delta variant is indian hoax~ | 00:14 |
| nixonix | "Of the 42 infected staff members, 17 had received both vaccine doses and two the first dose. | 00:14 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/domestic/19340-outbreak-in-haemeenlinna-hospital-led-to-hundred-infections-dozen-deaths.html | 00:14 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.helsinkitimes.fi: Outbreak in Hämeenlinna hospital led to a hundred infections, dozen deaths | 00:14 |
| nixonix | 17 was the total i think... | 00:15 |
| nixonix | jesus the entrance of the hospital looks like from hell... maybe its just the pic | 00:16 |
| Krey[m] | I wonder if i should wait now that there seems to be a growing number of people of my age that have heart inflammation after the COVID-19 vaccine | 00:17 |
| Krey[m] | O.o | 00:17 |
| * Krey[m] will get a vaccine in 2 days | 00:17 | |
| * Krey[m] uploaded an image: (141KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/QEipgiSeXykuALHRKPtguEzV/image.png > | 00:18 | |
| Krey[m] | nice | 00:18 |
| nixonix | there was a meeting today about those myocarditis cases | 00:18 |
| nixonix | i wouldnt wait, but maybe id read what they said after the meeting | 00:19 |
| Krey[m] | link me the meeting please | 00:19 |
| nixonix | i dont have it | 00:19 |
| Krey[m] | aAAaaAaaAAaAAAAA | 00:19 |
| lavadonut | "The case are rare," she said. "Over 20 million adolescents and young adults [have been] vaccinated in the United States." Still, the cases of either myocarditis or pericarditis, which involve inflammation of the heart or the surrounding tissue, are higher than what would be expected for this age group. | 00:19 |
| lavadonut | have they been testing for myocarditis before in general? | 00:20 |
| lavadonut | do youths not just have mycarditis because it's 2021 and everyone is obese | 00:20 |
| lavadonut | myocarditis* | 00:20 |
| LjL | Krey[m], you'll get more cardiac stress just by being this stressed/afraid than from the vaccine | 00:20 |
| Krey[m] | Just when i was getting less worried after talking with a family doctor on the vaccine aaaAaaAaaaaAAAA | 00:20 |
| lavadonut | do you have family history of heart problems? | 00:21 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "Krey, you'll get more cardiac st"> doubt depending on what is causing the heart inflammation assuming it being related to the blood clots | 00:21 |
| LjL | why do you assume that? | 00:21 |
| Krey[m] | <lavadonut "do you have family history of he"> none that i am aware of x.x | 00:21 |
| lavadonut | then just get the vaccine and relax | 00:21 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "why do you assume that?"> because i am too dumb to have imagination to what else could possibly cause it | 00:21 |
| lavadonut | if you're worried about your heart then lose 10 lbs or stop smoking or start eating whole grains or something | 00:22 |
| Krey[m] | aldo infection comes to mind but i don't see how that could be a case | 00:22 |
| nixonix | https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/index.html | 00:22 |
| LjL | Krey[m], so am i, but surely you can acknowledge that things are Complicated™ and just because blood clots have been the things in the spotlight so far, they're *very unlikely* to be the only mechanism in action when you get a vaccine | 00:22 |
| Krey[m] | i ain't smoking, i've gained 7 kg since 47days and i have vegetarian diet aaaaa | 00:22 |
| lavadonut | i've been fully vaccinated for 1 month and i'm fine | 00:23 |
| Krey[m] | LjL: ye i guess O.o but i would be less worried if i know what that was caused by | 00:23 |
| lavadonut | i went to las vegas and didn't get covid | 00:23 |
| nixonix | https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/agenda-archive/agenda-2021-06-18-508.pdf | 00:23 |
| Krey[m] | <nixonix "https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/aci"> thanks! | 00:23 |
| Krey[m] | <lavadonut "i went to las vegas and didn't g"> i ain't you and i hate people so las vegas is hell for me | 00:24 |
| Krey[m] | also they kick me out of casinos for knowing math too often >.> | 00:24 |
| Krey[m] | was such a great way to make money U_U | 00:24 |
| lavadonut | nice | 00:24 |
| Krey[m] | why is that meeting not public aaaaa | 00:24 |
| LjL | stop saying aaaaaaa ffs | 00:24 |
| LjL | if you're panicking take a break, don't get others to panic too | 00:25 |
| lavadonut | wWWWAaaaaaaaarKIgarhakrahrakrahrhawWWWAaaaaaaaarKIgarhakrahrakrahrhawWWWAaaaaaaaarKIgarhakrahrakrahrhawWWWAaaaaaaaarKIgarhakrahrakrahrhawWWWAaaaaaaaarKIgarhakrahrakrahrhawWWWAaaaaaaaarKIgarhakrahrakrahrhawWWWAaaaaaaaarKIgarhakrahrakrahrhawWWWAaaaaaaaarK!! | 00:25 |
| Krey[m] | I guess it's in my personality >.> | 00:25 |
| * LjL head-desks | 00:25 | |
| Krey[m] | not panicking.. rather concerned and reconsidering my life decisiosn | 00:26 |
| Krey[m] | also i like my heart, it's so nice you should see it! absolute model | 00:26 |
| lavadonut | Krey[m]: there might be some good reasons not to get vaccinated, personally i don't think the myocarditis risk is one of them | 00:26 |
| lavadonut | especially if you have no family history of heart disease | 00:26 |
| Krey[m] | what are the other reasons | 00:26 |
| LjL | mathematics is hard for me. if it's easy for you, then i don't get why you have it so hard to figure out that no matter *why* there is this or that rare risk, the chances of COVID fucking you up are clearly worse | 00:27 |
| lavadonut | idk, there just could be some | 00:27 |
| lavadonut | clearly i don't know of any good enough to not have gotten vaccinated myself | 00:27 |
| Krey[m] | LjL: bcs i know math and i know what influences probability ! | 00:27 |
| lavadonut | i'm more worried about permanent lung, heart, and brain damage from covid than i am from the vaccine | 00:27 |
| Krey[m] | e.g. average person in europe has X amount of percent to be shot in the head.. that probability increases if you have a gun and point it to your head too often ~ | 00:28 |
| LjL | Krey[m], well, clearly you want to get talking to someone more experienced than me with all of mathematics, statistics, and biology / medicine. but guess what, i suspect they're unlikely to take you seriously and try to engage with you if you just go "aaaaaAAAAAAAA" on anything | 00:28 |
| Krey[m] | lavadonut: I am self-isolating since 11/2019 and i wear a gas mask when i go out so the risk of getting covid for me is slim.. at least i like to believe that x.x | 00:28 |
| Krey[m] | LjL: b-but my heart! | 00:29 |
| lavadonut | sounds like me :D i was working from home, avoiding 95% of building entries, and wearing N95+goggles if i did have to go in anywhere | 00:29 |
| LjL | Krey[m], your heart may be the bestest heart but we'll only get to see its beauty when you're on the autopsy table | 00:29 |
| lavadonut | it's so nice to go in buildings again :D | 00:29 |
| * Krey[m] goes to find a 3D image of his heart from magnetic resonation | 00:30 | |
| Krey[m] | LjL: No cutting in me you yandere 🔪 | 00:30 |
| Krey[m] | aldo i am less concerned of it being 300 out of milions then i was for the 3 women out of milions who died on it O.o | 00:32 |
| Krey[m] | also the CDCUS meeting is next week? -- https://youtu.be/gJe9lwl786A?t=24 | 00:32 |
| Krey[m] | says June 18 on hte thing x.x | 00:33 |
| LjL | june 18 was yesterday | 00:34 |
| Krey[m] | today for em! | 00:34 |
| Krey[m] | *me | 00:34 |
| LjL | oh right today, whatever, i just meant it's not next week | 00:34 |
| Krey[m] | she said next week and she said it today O.o | 00:35 |
| LjL | hmm, i dunno | 00:37 |
| LjL | Krey[m], The June 18, 2021 COVID-19 meeting is being rescheduled due to the observation of the Juneteenth National Independence Day holiday. The discussion will be rescheduled to be included as part of the June 23-25 ACIP meeting. | 00:37 |
| LjL | Krey[m], but it will be webcast apparently, see https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/index.html | 00:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Zimbabwe: +408 cases (now 41335), +9 deaths (now 1656) since 22 hours ago — Sierra Leone: +78 cases (now 4631) since 20 hours ago | 00:38 |
| Krey[m] | damned biden making a new holidays 💢 | 00:38 |
| Krey[m] | ah webcast, great O.o | 00:38 |
| * Krey[m] talked to his doctor and rescheduled the vaccine until the meeting x.x | 00:39 | |
| LjL | did your doctor sigh deeply | 00:39 |
| Krey[m] | nah was kinda her idea x.x | 00:40 |
| nixonix | and said no, im not going to prescribe you ivermectin for covid | 00:40 |
| Krey[m] | ... or she was annoyed that i am waking her up and just said anything to make me not bother her which also works | 00:41 |
| Krey[m] | <nixonix "and said no, im not going to pre"> what! i ain't no parasite u.u | 00:42 |
| lavadonut | what vaccine were you going to get? | 00:43 |
| Krey[m] | Pfizer/biontech | 00:43 |
| Krey[m] | I hate that CDC_US just recommends the vaccine because "Kids are in public and they die of covid" factor | 00:43 |
| Krey[m] | would they do the same if this wasn't the case? O.o | 00:43 |
| lavadonut | how old are you? | 00:44 |
| Krey[m] | dunno stopped counting after 13 bcs i get depressed >.> | 00:44 |
| lavadonut | or age range | 00:44 |
| Krey[m] | early 20s i think | 00:44 |
| * Krey[m] is watching https://youtu.be/qAO60IU8dxQ | 00:46 | |
| lavadonut | who the eff is dr. john campbell? | 00:46 |
| Krey[m] | > My name is John Campbell and I am a retired Nurse Teacher and A and E nurse based in England. I also do some teaching in Asia and Africa when time permits. These videos are to help students to learn the background to all forms of health care. My PhD focused on the development of open learning resources for nurses nationally and internationally. | 00:47 |
| LjL | someone who routinely summarized covid info on youtube. i've found his summaries less than stellar lately. actually not lately, a while ago, i've stopped watching them a while ago | 00:47 |
| Krey[m] | LjL: same +- | 00:48 |
| lavadonut | well he says that if you get covid, you'll get heart damage | 00:48 |
| Krey[m] | i also hate british people and their way of talking makes me distressed x.x | 00:48 |
| Krey[m] | too much of a psycho~ | 00:48 |
| lavadonut | so the .001% myocarditis risk from the vaccine is way better than that | 00:48 |
| lavadonut | looool | 00:48 |
| Krey[m] | lavadonut: it's not .001% if you don't know what influences the factors | 00:48 |
| Krey[m] | could be .001% for you and 100% for me :p | 00:49 |
| lavadonut | you said you have no family history of heart disease | 00:49 |
| Krey[m] | i don't find that being a sane argument assuming the reports associated with thrombosis which to me could cause the inflammation | 00:49 |
| lavadonut | do you have family history of blood clots? | 00:50 |
| Krey[m] | not that i know of, but then my parents are dead O.o | 00:50 |
| Krey[m] | and i have sore back too often~ but that's probably bcs of the pillow >.> | 00:50 |
| Krey[m] | also assuming that covid-19 causes inflammation of the heart so i think it's more related to the SARS-CoV-2 and possible to the mechanism used in mRNA to trigger the immune response O.o | 00:52 |
| lavadonut | i think LjL was right from the beginning on this one, if you get a heart problem, it won't be from vaccines or covid | 00:53 |
| Krey[m] | also looking on what are allegedly autopsy of the covid-19 mortals seems to be indicative of blood clots ? | 00:53 |
| Krey[m] | lavadonut: x.x | 00:54 |
| lavadonut | if you're really worried about your health, getting the vaccine is the best thing you can do, covid is no joke | 00:54 |
| lavadonut | especially an mrna one, they seem safest to me | 00:55 |
| Krey[m] | i am not in the risk of getting covid.. it's just a matter of me being more comfortable to go out atm O.o | 00:56 |
| lavadonut | being comfortable to go out after over a year of being a complete shut-in is pretty nice | 00:56 |
| Krey[m] | and i am concerned about mRNA as it's their first production use and i am concerned about long-term side effects such as the possibly myocardial injury | 00:56 |
| Krey[m] | lavadonut: like i am going out on my property where i grow plants and stuff and i have animals surrounding me and people keeping me company~ | 00:57 |
| lavadonut | sounds like you just don't want it then | 00:58 |
| lavadonut | so stop worrying about it | 00:58 |
| Krey[m] | i don't want long term side effects, permanent tissue/other damage and death yes | 00:58 |
| lavadonut | how funny, that's the exact reason i got the vaccine :'D | 00:59 |
| Krey[m] | also mythosis doesn't work for muscles e.g. in heart | 00:59 |
| Krey[m] | which is what i am concerned about | 00:59 |
| Krey[m] | or things in spine | 00:59 |
| Krey[m] | also looking on the campbell video monitoring of troponin levels in blood seems sane O.o | 01:01 |
| LjL | wait for that meeting, try to take it at least a bit easier in the meanwhile | 01:01 |
| Krey[m] | hmm x.x | 01:02 |
| Krey[m] | why can't i just get immunoglobin in me blood to get the resistance | 01:02 |
| Krey[m] | e.g. oil and water won't mix until i add in an alcohol .. would think that the human body would work same way assuming it being a chemical reaction | 01:03 |
| LjL | what | 01:03 |
| * Krey[m] was that explained multiple times, but he's still confused | 01:03 | |
| Krey[m] | LjL: like bypassing the mRNA thing to trigger immune response and rather giving the silver bullet agains vapires to the immune system | 01:04 |
| Krey[m] | *vampires | 01:04 |
| LjL | well Novavax bypasses mRNA and just gives you the protein | 01:04 |
| Krey[m] | so like instead of making them to fight and figure out what works to give them.. | 01:04 |
| Krey[m] | O.o | 01:04 |
| LjL | but it doesn't directly give you the antibodies, i don't think your existing immune system would like *that* | 01:05 |
| Krey[m] | x.x | 01:05 |
| LjL | you have to make your own antibodies i'm afraid, unless you're already sick and then an antibody cocktail may save you | 01:05 |
| Krey[m] | so the vaccine would have to be made using my cells for the immune system to like it right | 01:06 |
| Krey[m] | bcs the immune system is like an antivirus on computer checking signatures ? | 01:06 |
| Krey[m] | and if so is there something like `sudo disable signatures` | 01:06 |
| LjL | i am not going to make stretched analogies, and i'm also not an expert on the immune system. the gist as i understand it is basically 1) if you just get antibodies injected into your blood system, that could serve as a treatment, but your immune cells won't *produce* any more, so when they're gone, you're no longer protected; 2) you cannot inject immune cells that are already trained to produce the antibodies, either, because your immune system would recognize | 01:07 |
| LjL | those cells are foreign and attack them | 01:07 |
| LjL | so yeah, i suppose a "personalized" vaccine would involve taking some of your plasma with immune cells in it, adding some S-protein, waiting for immunity to form, then filter it so the S-protein goes away (it could give you myocarditis or something otherwise!), and put the result back | 01:08 |
| Krey[m] | so what about me getting the immunoglobin through e.g. novavax and then french kissing someone with covid for immune system to be able to make the antibodies | 01:08 |
| LjL | i have a feeling that would not only be very expensive, but also have many more chances of something going wrong than a scale-produced standardized vaccine | 01:09 |
| Krey[m] | x.x | 01:09 |
| hirogen | hey guys i never got covid I'm sure of it my GF had it at one point and had loss of taste, her daughter had it bad long covid, and i was around them both, both also had side effects from the vaccine, I even worked in Milan when it went into lockdown the week before, I work in London and I have been workin in the biggest hospital corona wards in London!! so i was wondering are there some | 01:09 |
| hirogen | people who simply won't contract it? | 01:09 |
| Krey[m] | i don't mind paying for my health >.> that's like the main reason for me to put an effort in being rich~ | 01:10 |
| LjL | hirogen, i don't think any such thing has been found, but then, they haven't really done challenge studies | 01:10 |
| Krey[m] | hirogen: "never got covid" is not the same as "going on the test to check immunoglobin G" btw. | 01:10 |
| LjL | hirogen, how "sure" you are that you've never gotten covid? have you had a very reliable antibody test? because otherwise you could have had it asymptomatically | 01:10 |
| LjL | also, i've been in Milan all this time, and i also probably haven't gotten COVID | 01:10 |
| LjL | so i'm not sure just saying "I've even worked in Milan when it went into lockdown" is a cogent argument that you must have been exposed to COVID | 01:10 |
| hirogen | i mean in the context of the fact I've now had both pzier jabs and still didn't have any side effects | 01:12 |
| hirogen | and it got me thinking I do stay fit, im not an addict i got a slight belly but i do train gym 5x a week including running and boxing , weights and lots of walking to work and back | 01:12 |
| Krey[m] | "about the people who just won't contract it" i was french kissing a girl few hours after she had sex with her boyfriend who had a covid-19 at the time and i didn't get covid (proven through lab tests) | 01:13 |
| Krey[m] | So i guess that could be a thing but i highly doubt it x.x | 01:13 |
| Krey[m] | (she was diagnosed with covid few days after btw) | 01:13 |
| * Krey[m] feels like a hero in a zombie apocalypse as a result of it, but ain't risking that again | 01:13 | |
| LjL | i cannot rule out that some people may exist who "just won't contract i". but evidence would seem to point to the overwhelming majority of people *being* able to contract it: i remember for example the numbers in some US prisons | 01:13 |
| LjL | Krey[m], i have difficulty reconciling an event like that with the claim that you are too protected to get COVID | 01:13 |
| Krey[m] | hirogen: FWIW i also stay fit, not addicted to anything and i do all day in gym 4x a week | 01:14 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "Krey, i have difficulty reconcil"> i said that in 12.05.2020 in 14:37:11 CEST | 01:14 |
| Krey[m] | (here) | 01:14 |
| Krey[m] | ehhh that could have been 14.05.2020 or 16.05.2020 that day is blurry for some reason x.x | 01:15 |
| Krey[m] | i think it's because of the damn font i had for clock at the time it makes 2 look like 4 which looks like 6 and 8 | 01:15 |
| Krey[m] | 💢 | 01:15 |
| LjL | faaaair enough, i don't need the millisecond | 01:16 |
| Krey[m] | no it was 14.05.2020 14:37:11 CESt because i was then eating tortilla and there was a news in TV on nova news that had a date at the left corner of the screen O>o | 01:16 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "faaaair enough, i don't need the"> but that's the main reason for me to added them in my xfce4-panel! | 01:16 |
| Krey[m] | people get sooo freak out when i tell them the miliseconds | 01:16 |
| Krey[m] | also my memory improved by a lot during a covid i wasn't always able to pin point the exact numbers and stuff O.o pretty weird | 01:18 |
| Krey[m] | also that tortilla was tasty and i am going to make one | 01:19 |
| Krey[m] | hirogen: also if you want to make a sacrifice to the science and you didn't get the vaccine jabs yet then i suggest in non-legally binding and in a way that would get me in trouble ethically and stuff to go and try to get covid to prove your hypothesis that being buffed is a natural immunity~ | 01:24 |
| Krey[m] | also i will be annoyed AF if i get this sentence quoted for when i will be doing my things to get a doctorine in medicine 💢 | 01:24 |
| LjL | imagine me, getting annoyed AF at it right now | 01:25 |
| Krey[m] | nooo pleaseeee yandere-san don't ruin my dream of people calling me a doctor and me being able to cut in them and stuff to save their lives x.x | 01:25 |
| Krey[m] | also do you have any better way to prove the hypothesis | 01:26 |
| LjL | no, i suggest to refrain from proving it | 01:26 |
| Krey[m] | but imagine the potential for a workout motivation tapes | 01:26 |
| Krey[m] | "lift faster, work harder make your immune system ..." | 01:27 |
| Krey[m] | work in progress | 01:27 |
| LjL | what does that even have to do... | 01:27 |
| Krey[m] | if proven i woudn't need the vaccine and i would go on my daily swimming and exercising | 01:28 |
| Krey[m] | and potentially the general populus would care more about their health after that assuming it having a major positive impact on immune system to avoid being locked in for years | 01:29 |
| Krey[m] | assuming it being pretty quaranteed now that SARS-CoV-2 ain't the last one to put us in mass quarantine | 01:29 |
| * Krey[m] doesn't know how to write quaranteed and his attempt of ducking it failed | 01:30 | |
| Krey[m] | also i've noticed similar claims from people who exercise as much as i do in relation to covid-19 so i think it would be worth researching O.o | 01:31 |
| * Krey[m] feels like he's making LjL more angry to file a complaint on him and goes to hide | 01:32 | |
| LjL | actually i wasn't looking because there was someone making death threats in a different channel | 01:33 |
| LjL | so you see, your OCD/fretting/hypochondria is definitely benign compared to that, just exhausting | 01:33 |
| Krey[m] | ah i get those daily give him my email kreyren@fsfe.org i need something more original | 01:33 |
| Krey[m] | makes me feel like people care about me that way ^-^ | 01:33 |
| LjL | clearly you also needed your email in the public logs | 01:33 |
| Krey[m] | yes because FSFE has to handle spam filter instead of me while me still having a private email | 01:34 |
| Krey[m] | it's a perfect crime | 01:34 |
| LjL | and you can also pretend to care about free software when the "E" part mostly means y'all are fine with Zoom and stuff! | 01:34 |
| LjL | but hey that's a topic for another channel so shush ljl | 01:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: Pregnant women and their unborn babies dying in Brazil as deaths set to pass 500k mark → https://is.gd/gc0nPq | 01:35 |
| Krey[m] | especially when the FSF part means we don't care about you and whatever you say :P -- https://freespeech.firedragonstudios.com/web/statuses/106397689568515442 | 01:35 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "but hey that's a topic for anoth"> ah right x.x sorry | 01:36 |
| Krey[m] | you have to put those first you know i read one message at the time maan | 01:36 |
| LjL | my fault anyway, i started it | 01:36 |
| Krey[m] | ye ye your fault me innocent~ | 01:36 |
| hirogen | <Krey[m]> hirogen: also if you want to make a sacrifice to the science and y - too late I had to take the jabs cos i got a job in NHS working in IT so had to support the corona wards mate | 01:37 |
| hirogen | didnt wanna risk giving it to ppl or my parents | 01:37 |
| Krey[m] | ahh too bad~ | 01:37 |
| Krey[m] | aldo i guess that if this was a thing observed by someone with this lifestyle they would be pretty vocal about it assuming the monetary opportunity | 01:39 |
| nixonix | they found anti-anti-aging treatment: https://mg.co.za/health/2021-06-18-study-finds-too-much-salt-can-damage-immune-cell-function/ | 01:59 |
| nixonix | ref to something about anti-aging research i wrote another day | 02:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mozambique: +194 cases (now 72123) since a day ago | 02:01 |
| nixonix | it was initially thought that the rate of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia was about 1 in every 100,000 or 1 in every 200,000 for those in their 50s. “But over time the rate has just steadily climbed. It’s now more like one in 35,000 or 40,000,” | 02:03 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.smh.com.au/national/rise-in-rare-clotting-cases-drove-difficult-call-on-astrazeneca-vaccine-20210618-p5826p.html | 02:03 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.smh.com.au: AstraZeneca vaccine: Rising instances of rare clotting disorder compel vaccine experts to make ‘difficult’ call | 02:03 |
| nixonix | https://sputniknews.com/science/202106181083183501-astronauts-may-get-their-spleen-removed-before-long-distance-flights/ | 02:09 |
| LjL | nixonix, i don't understand that sydney morning herald article. are they saying that the projected rate *due to AZ* has increased compared to initial estimate, or do they mean the rate has increased over time in the past years regardless of AZ? and if they mean AZ, do they mean future (long-term) risk? | 02:12 |
| nixonix | i just had a quick glance, lemme check | 02:14 |
| nixonix | when they got more data they got more evidence, that even the risk of death looked smaller than initially, other severe consequences looked more likely than they looked some time ago | 02:17 |
| nixonix | even IF the risk... | 02:17 |
| Krey[m] | LjL: Looking in the heart inflammation that seems to be relavant to the arrival of delta variant in the US.. do you think it's caused by the delta variant exposed to the vaccinated teens? | 02:17 |
| Krey[m] | since it reports 300 cases without a known symptoms prior to delta variant being confirmed in the US + reasonable amount of time since it's discovery in india | 02:19 |
| Krey[m] | + that teens are less likely to seek medical attention for this for us to be aware of it | 02:19 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2021/05/03/federal-vaers-database-a-critical-research-tool-breeding-ground-for-misinformation/ | 02:20 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.tampabay.com: Federal VAERS database a critical research tool, breeding ground for misinformation | 02:20 |
| LjL | Krey[m], it was being investigated in Israel quite a (relatively) long time ago | 02:20 |
| Krey[m] | source? | 02:20 |
| LjL | i need to disconnect for a minute, and fix my znc | 02:20 |
| Krey[m] | aaaAaaAaaAaaAaaAaaAAaaaAAaAAaaA | 02:20 |
| LjL | just memory | 02:20 |
| nixonix | breathe in paper bag | 02:20 |
| Krey[m] | aAaaaAaAAaAAA u r making me nervous | 02:20 |
| LjL | sigh | 02:20 |
| LjL | i'm just saying that the thing we already know happens, was known to happen, before you knew it was known to happen | 02:21 |
| LjL | nothing changes | 02:21 |
| Krey[m] | https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-sees-probable-link-between-pfizer-vaccine-small-number-myocarditis-cases-2021-06-01/ | 02:21 |
| Krey[m] | ah i see | 02:21 |
| Krey[m] | O.o | 02:21 |
| LjL | that's still early june, i think there were initial articles a bit earlier | 02:21 |
| LjL | anyway, brb | 02:21 |
| Krey[m] | welcome back~ | 02:22 |
| Krey[m] | > In Israel, 275 cases of myocarditis were reported between December 2020 and May 2021 among more than 5 million vaccinated people | 02:26 |
| Krey[m] | Right so no link to delta variant x.x | 02:26 |
| de-facto | ahm, myocarditis is much more probable with COVID than with vaccinations | 02:31 |
| de-facto | just saying | 02:31 |
| nixonix | .title https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/news/seropositivity-almost-equal-among-minors-and-adults-niti-aayog/videoshow/83647968.cms | 02:32 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From timesofindia.indiatimes.com: ‘Seropositivity almost equal among minors and adults’: NITI Aayog | News - Times of India Videos | 02:32 |
| de-facto | as are viral loads | 02:32 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.jpost.com/health-science/covid-19-might-be-over-but-viral-infections-in-israel-are-surging-671354 | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.jpost.com: COVID-19 might be over, but viral infections in Israel are surging - The Jerusalem Post | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for French Guiana: +307 cases (now 26450), +1 deaths (now 137) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +7792 cases (now 4.6 million), +11 deaths (now 128083) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +496 cases (now 1.7 million) since 22 hours ago — France: +34 deaths (now 110728) since 22 hours ago | 02:38 |
| nixonix | there was a big rhinovirus epidemic here in aug-sep. apparently higher R than with the variants back then, and not much restrictions etc exp at borders | 02:39 |
| nixonix | some healthcare official thought it was because they dont have lipid envelope, so the handwash didnt affect. but really handwash wasnt used by many at the time (if ever here) | 02:40 |
| lavadonut | handwash.. not used? | 02:40 |
| nixonix | no. or masks | 02:41 |
| lavadonut | :') | 02:41 |
| nixonix | we were walking bare faced like animals | 02:41 |
| lavadonut | i thought handwashing washes away all microbes, lipid envelope or not | 02:42 |
| lavadonut | that they're just not directly killed by the soap if they don't have a lipid envelope | 02:42 |
| nixonix | meaning those alcohol containing products | 02:42 |
| lavadonut | oh | 02:42 |
| nixonix | sure some people wash hands, i think... | 02:42 |
| nixonix | but its the same with soap, its great against lipid enveloped viruses. those with pure protein envelope, maybe not that efficient | 02:43 |
| nixonix | but if it has alcohol, you can desinfect from inside. scientist should study it more | 02:44 |
| nixonix | +s | 02:44 |
| Krey[m] | FWIW i have a desinfecting gell on me at all times ^-^ | 02:59 |
| Krey[m] | works great and makes my hands smell good~ | 02:59 |
| nixonix | cases rising in catalonia, new restrictions, no mentioning about indian variant in the article | 03:00 |
| LjL | uff | 03:00 |
| LjL | it does like to hit back in the places it already hit hard before :( | 03:01 |
| LjL | or at least that's the perception of a Lombard! | 03:01 |
| nixonix | not to mention portugal, restrictions between lisbon and other areas | 03:02 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57481895 | 03:02 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.bbc.com: Bloomsbury staff must be vaccinated before office return - BBC News | 03:02 |
| LjL | a representative of Lombardy said that we will now sequence every single positive case | 03:03 |
| LjL | but that sounds to me just like a politician who hasn't actually spoken to the technical team before saying such things | 03:03 |
| LjL | because so far we've been sequencing like 1/100 the amount that the UK sequences | 03:04 |
| nixonix | i think they used to do that in denmark | 03:04 |
| LjL | so i find it hard to believe we can suddenly go from nearly zero to "every case" | 03:04 |
| LjL | nixonix, yeah during the mink event | 03:04 |
| LjL | but generally speaking most of the EU sequences much less than the UK | 03:04 |
| nixonix | and ofc in aus, where they discuss for days or weeks about some single transmission, the mystery case where she got it and stuff | 03:04 |
| LjL | and even among the EU countries, italy doesn't shine | 03:05 |
| LjL | well it'd be nice to be able to do that | 03:05 |
| LjL | we could go back in time and try to contain it | 03:05 |
| nixonix | they sequence currently around 20% in finland i just read. used to be 10% a few months ago | 03:06 |
| LjL | also we're having a heatwave. i assume catalonia and portugal are also more or less having a heat wave | 03:06 |
| LjL | why does everyone still seem to think "it goes away in the summer"? | 03:06 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53458426 | 03:06 |
| LjL | nixonix, well that's a lot, but i guess you have comparatively few cases? | 03:07 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.bbc.com: Coronavirus spike continues amid new Catalonia restrictions - BBC News | 03:07 |
| LjL | %cases finland | 03:07 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Finland, there have been 94154 confirmed cases (1.7% of the population) and 967 deaths (1.0% of cases) as of 14 hours ago. 5.3 million tests were performed (1.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.1% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Finland for time series data. | 03:07 |
| nixonix | yeah i think the rate is currently around 75/d | 03:07 |
| nixonix | used to be around 7 last july | 03:07 |
| nixonix | and around 15/d year ago. some people argue, and more hidden cases last year, but i dont know, people took it more seriously back then | 03:09 |
| nixonix | *argue that there was... | 03:09 |
| LjL | nixonix, despite the big differences in numbers and also in parts of the graph, it always strikes me how when i compare countries, there tends to be some coincidences http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy;Finland&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes | 03:09 |
| nixonix | tyresom hitting | 03:10 |
| LjL | i mean the peaks don't coincide if you look at it from the lens of "when it's happening", but make the graph a bit wider and they sort of overlap | 03:10 |
| nixonix | the early spring peak was uk variant hitting everywhere | 03:15 |
| nixonix | maybe it doesnt happen with indian variant. maybe it will be different this time | 03:16 |
| nixonix | yeah, the summer just goes on this time | 03:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Antibody response stronger with BioNTech vaccine than China's Sinovac, study shows → https://is.gd/QM9Ubk | 03:18 |
| nixonix | is something doesnt work, try the same again. wasnt it the sign of ingeniousity, if i recall | 03:18 |
| nixonix | -u | 03:20 |
| LjL | nixonix, it didn't happen with the South African variant, seemingly, and thankfully | 03:20 |
| LjL | i guess the UK variant was more contagious than it | 03:20 |
| nixonix | it was prob less transmissible | 03:20 |
| LjL | so in a way the UK variant may have been a blessing in disguise, because the SA variant evaded vaccines much more | 03:20 |
| LjL | nixonix, well, but it was more transmissible in SA, since it prevailed | 03:20 |
| nixonix | it stayed here like as a 15-20% share, at least at the capital region | 03:21 |
| nixonix | i linked here a study where indian variant was slightly more evasive vs vaccines. it depends on study, but some have it less evading yeah, maybe it is a bit | 03:22 |
| nixonix | i mean indian vs sa variant | 03:22 |
| LjL | i sure hope it's less evasive because SA is very evasive, while Indian is very contagious | 03:30 |
| LjL | very contagious and very evasive would be very bad news | 03:30 |
| nixonix | especially with something like 60% more likely to cause severe disease | 03:33 |
| nixonix | or what was the latest estimate. 4 days old i think | 03:36 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/delta-variant-covid-vaccines-scotland-b1865418.html | 03:36 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.independent.co.uk: Delta variant doubles risk of being hospitalised but vaccines remain effective, new analysis reveals | The Independent | 03:36 |
| nixonix | small sample, and not representative etc but it seems very few fully vaccinated in icu lately in finland. there were some in hospital but almost none in icu. those that were, were mostly ppl that decided not to have vaccine | 03:38 |
| LjL | nixonix, i would *really* like to know the difference between AZ and other vaccines when looking at this sort of numbers though | 03:38 |
| LjL | partly for personal reasons, y'know | 03:39 |
| LjL | but also because it's hard to find data about individual vaccines and we can't just assume they behave the same and lump "vaccinated" data all together | 03:39 |
| nixonix | uk data. this was from scotland https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01358-1/fulltext | 03:40 |
| nixonix | differencies vs severe cases looks like its smaller between vaccines | 03:40 |
| LjL | nixonix, that looks interesting but what is "S-gene positive/negative"? O.o | 03:47 |
| nixonix | uk kent variant is so called s-gene negative, meaning that deletion, was it at 69-70. pcr tests often recognize if it has it or not | 03:51 |
| nixonix | if it hasnt, its s-gene positive, aka another variant. in uk most likely 617.2. in some countries some old variant | 03:52 |
| nixonix | then i suppose you know this one https://khub.net/web/phe-national/public-library/-/document_library/v2WsRK3ZlEig/view/479607266 | 03:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cayman Is.: +7 cases (now 608) since 12 hours ago | 04:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Joe Biden promotes milestone of 300 million vaccine shots in 150 days → https://is.gd/nrkBkW | 04:30 |
| RasAlGhoul | So a question I have that I hope to find the answer to | 04:47 |
| RasAlGhoul | If people naturally contracting COVID-19 are dying from the virus and its spike protein activity, and the spike protein according to even vaccine skeptics is one of the best proteins to select for a vaccine against COVID-19, then why are people hysterical over the toxicity of the vaccine spike protein when you'd fare equally or worse with the actual virus? | 04:49 |
| LjL | RasAlGhoul, i guess it all boils down to the perception that something WILL happen (taking the vaccine) versus something that MAY happen (getting COVID) | 04:55 |
| LjL | in reality, the vaccine, yes, you get it, you get the injection, but chances that it'll do some bad shit to you are low | 04:55 |
| LjL | on the other hand, getting COVID, if you're unvaccinated, is sort of a given unless you're run over by a truck in the next couple of years | 04:56 |
| LjL | but that's not the perception brains naturally get | 04:56 |
| LjL | they see that some people get COVID but most don't, and they also see that almost everyone who gets the vaccine feels a bit sick for a day or something | 04:56 |
| LjL | it's irrational, but it's normal | 04:57 |
| LjL | if i took AstraZeneca and after a few days i got some strange rash or something similar to the symptoms of the rare blood clotting issues that have been described, rationally, i'd know it's very unlikely that's happening to me, and i'm just having a rash. but that's the rational part. another part of me would suddenly be scared shitless | 04:57 |
| RasAlGhoul | idk I fail to see a difference in the cytotoxicity between the vaccine and the actual virus | 05:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +7705 cases (now 4.6 million), +8 deaths (now 128085) since 21 hours ago — France: +34 deaths (now 110742) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +446 cases (now 1.7 million), +1 deaths (now 17858) since 21 hours ago | 05:07 |
| RasAlGhoul | I am worried about VAED though | 05:09 |
| Krey[m] | 43 pregnant women die every week of covid in brazil -- https://youtu.be/lDIYeUQ7U-w?t=102 | 05:10 |
| Krey[m] | that's chilling | 05:10 |
| Krey[m] | *42 | 05:10 |
| LjL | RasAlGhoul, the S-protein may have some degree of toxicity but 1) the vaccine create much less S-protein than an actual infection from the virus, and 2) the virus is and does much more than the S-protein, which is basically just the virus's way to enter cells. it may do damage but it's mostly collateral damage, the bulk of the damage is going to be the virus replicating tons, like with any virus | 05:12 |
| RasAlGhoul | damn pre-covid 52,000+ women give birth per week and 30 of them die at some point in the pregnancy | 05:15 |
| RasAlGhoul | in brazil | 05:15 |
| RasAlGhoul | 40% increase | 05:16 |
| RasAlGhoul | So is the death rate now among pregnant women 70+ per week? | 05:16 |
| RasAlGhoul | 140% total increase if the covid deaths are in addition to normal mortality | 05:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Covid-19 cases surge again in Russia, many from Delta variant → https://is.gd/13g1G7 | 05:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for St. Kitts and Nevis: +25 cases (now 304) since 22 hours ago | 05:32 |
| finely[m] | <LjL "nixonix, i don't understand that"> ATAGI is the expert advisory panel in Australia. | 05:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 770: COVID-19 clinical update #67 with Dr. Daniel Griffin: In COVID-19 clinical update #67, Daniel Griffin reviews antibodies to the virus early in the US, serology testing of blood donations, MIS-C in children under 21, myocarditis in competitive athletes, ER visits for suspected suicide attempts, delta variant in [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/dfesGL | 06:12 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +104 deaths (now 90666) since 21 hours ago | 06:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: High hopes for Johnson & Johnson’s COVID vaccine have fizzled in US → https://is.gd/GER1yH | 06:43 |
| Samizdat | Good God. Yet another channel that slurps up mainstream gibberish on this fake pandemic like it's going out of style. When will you people go away? | 06:55 |
| saltedegg | i wonder when has it ever not going out of style? | 07:03 |
| \mSg | is that effectively "I just want to blab on about conspiracies and stick my fingers in my ears and say la la la and walk away?" | 07:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Palestinians cancel deal for near-expired Covid vaccines from Israel → https://is.gd/SKx3UU | 07:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sao Paulo, Brazil: +27706 cases (now 3.6 million), +714 deaths (now 121238) since 23 hours ago — Parana, Brazil: +10807 cases (now 1.2 million), +475 deaths (now 29674) since 23 hours ago — Moscow, Russia: +9056 cases (now 1.3 million), +78 deaths (now 21276) since 23 hours ago — Moscow Oblast, Russia: +1254 cases (now 287448), +12 deaths (now 6317) since 23 hours ago | 07:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +60753 cases (now 29.8 million), +1530 deaths (now 384598) since 15 hours ago | 08:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Deepak Chopra: ‘Stress No 1 epidemic in our society… pandemic an opportunity to reinvent body and soul’ → https://is.gd/j0ffdM | 09:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Urgently trying to work with AstraZeneca, SII, Indian government to restart Covid-19 vaccine shipments: WHO Official → https://is.gd/Hj8xxz | 09:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Uzbekistan: +391 cases (now 105610), +1 deaths (now 718) since a day ago | 09:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A major manufacturer in Taiwan is forcing migrant workers out of private homes and back into shared accommodation at the height of the island’s worst Covid-19 outbreak since the pandemic began, drawing accusations of discrimination and double standards. → https://is.gd/q9EI6h | 10:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Meghalaya, India: +650 cases (now 44382), +9 deaths (now 771) since 23 hours ago | 10:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: As Covid-19 cases dip, countries start welcoming tourists — with riders → https://is.gd/rRmwB2 | 10:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Sri Lanka shuffles senior health official after Rajapaksa reveals wrong Covid-19 death figures → https://is.gd/ZtN0Xe | 10:47 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +17906 cases (now 5.3 million), +919 deaths (now 128911) since 23 hours ago | 11:32 |
| finely[m] | https://theintercept.com/2021/06/19/india-covid-vaccine-profiteering/ | 12:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +614 cases (now 3.7 million), +104 deaths (now 90678) since 23 hours ago | 12:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA SALUTE - ORDINANZA 18 giugno 2021: Ulteriori misure urgenti in materia di contenimento e gestionedell'emergenza epidemiologica da COVID-19 nelle Regioni Basilicata,Calabria, Campania, Marche, Sicilia e Toscana e nella Provinciaautonoma di Bolzano. (21A03772) → https://is.gd/v1eaS0 | 12:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +428 cases (now 1.1 million), +8 deaths (now 25125) since a day ago | 12:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Milkha Singh: India's 'Flying Sikh' dies from Covid → https://is.gd/E5R9vj | 13:25 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Incontro Draghi - von der Leyen ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/incontro-draghi-von-der-leyen/17217 ) | 13:26 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +1688 cases (now 619635), +34 deaths (now 8675) since 23 hours ago | 14:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: Include these eight foods in your diet to prevent post-Covid hair fall → https://is.gd/YFCE6X | 14:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +3057 cases (now 848027), +67 deaths (now 13466) since 23 hours ago | 15:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Fiji: +150 cases (now 1798) since a day ago | 15:41 |
| Krey[m] | looking for radiation data from india +- 3 days | 15:42 |
| Guest9884 | has anything happened? | 15:45 |
| frtnx | feel more myself now | 15:46 |
| Krey[m] | <Guest9884 "has anything happened?"> Possible meltdown of nuclear power plant in china | 15:51 |
| Krey[m] | and looking on EU's radiation map i can see slight elevation in measurements thus concerned | 15:52 |
| * Krey[m] uploaded an image: (189KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/SUrtgbCbLxSBQRDwRcGuRiJe/image.png > | 15:53 | |
| * Krey[m] uploaded an image: (156KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/AUpdQAVqYFrWdxtqtxGZNumY/image.png > | 15:54 | |
| frtnx | feels like Chernobyl | 15:56 |
| frtnx | elevated radiation levels were reported in europian countries long before the accident was shared with the world | 15:57 |
| frtnx | switching to mobile | 15:58 |
| frtnx_ | Done | 15:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: U.S. triples vaccines for Taiwan with 2.5 million-dose shipment → https://is.gd/cvwGyN | 16:32 |
| Krey[m] | frtnx_: yep.. this apparently happened 3 days ago and is still ongoing... note the elevated radiation levels starting at around +- 4 days | 16:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Third wave of Covid ‘definitely under way’ in UK, says expert | Coronavirus → https://is.gd/AEq3HQ | 16:42 |
| frtnx_ | Having every-other-year bad things happen in a global pandemic feels armagedish. With government budgets already stretched it becomes ever more difficult to fund responses to new events | 17:01 |
| frtnx_ | Once they find a way to present the accident I'm sure we'll be hearing official statements. Though the fact that it's been 3 days might mean it's difficult to talk about | 17:03 |
| Krey[m] | Hm O.o | 17:11 |
| Krey[m] | we'll see what happens could be a non-disaster as well | 17:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: Palestinians cancel vaccine swap deal with Israel → https://is.gd/EldSZt | 17:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Myanmar: +546 cases (now 147615), +7 deaths (now 3258) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +11 deaths (now 26021) since 21 hours ago | 17:33 |
| Arsanerit | I wonder; if the news reported every day "x people died in traffic today" (like they do with coronavirus, at least here in Germany), would people support stricter traffic laws as much as they are currently wanting to be vaccinated? | 17:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Unvaccinated, Homebound and Now Hospitalized With Covid in New York City: ...a disturbing deficiency in the pandemic response: those eager to get vaccinated but unable to do so because they are homebound. → https://is.gd/3bQUn0 | 17:54 |
| de-facto | traffic incidents normally are not contagious | 17:55 |
| de-facto | yet reproduction of a pathogen depends on the previous incidence, luckily right now we got something like R~0.8<1 or such | 17:57 |
| de-facto | in Germany that is | 17:57 |
| de-facto | but with the assumption that R(B.1.617.2) ~ 150% R(B.1.1.7) that would not be enough since it would imply current R(B.1.617.2) ~ 1.5 * 0.8 = 1.2 > 1 | 17:58 |
| de-facto | that is for now the majority of contributions still come from B.1.1.7 (and thereby also mainly its reproduction number) | 17:59 |
| de-facto | that will change though, what was the latest relative prevalence for B.1.617.2 in Germany? something like 6.5% or such? | 18:00 |
| de-facto | so we definitely should try to progress with vaccinations as fast as possible, hopefully outrun the rise of B.1.617.2 and thereby steal enough from its reproduction that it would not explode in our faces as did B.1.1.7 | 18:01 |
| de-facto | imho its a race condition right now | 18:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +5883 cases (now 4.6 million) since 15 hours ago | 18:04 |
| de-facto | we would need to aim for R(B.1.1.7) = R(B.1.617.2) / 1.5 = 0.75 / 1.5 = 0.5 hence a contact reduction to the 0.5 / 0.8 ~ 0.625-fold meaning 1 - 0.625 = 0.375 or 35.5% less contacts roughly canceling 1 of 3 contacts we have right now (all assuming the average, yet clusters probably play a role) | 18:14 |
| de-facto | also if no transmission happens on a contact its basically "canceled" for pathogen reproduction | 18:16 |
| de-facto | hence removing 1 of every 3 contacts where transmission takes place right now should contain B.1.617.2 in Germany (on average) | 18:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: The 100 Year Old Ford Assembly Line showed me the key to Automating my life for more Efficiency → https://is.gd/5e0J6B | 18:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Labor Department Issues Emergency Rules to Protect Health Care Workers From Covid: require employers to remove workers who have covid-19 from the workplace, notify workers of covid exposure at work & strengthen requirements for employers to report worker deaths or hospitalizations to the OSHA → https://is.gd/Fp16zv | 18:56 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: traffic accidents are not contagious as such, but nor is the act of dying (unlike the number of infections). | 19:08 |
| Arsanerit | I don't know how long people remain infectious after they die, but I don't think it's very long. | 19:08 |
| de-facto | a COVID fatality got infected some time ago and also was (or still is) infectious | 19:18 |
| de-facto | hence there is a correlation between a certain prevalence of the unlucky that got a fatal progression and the generic likelihood of getting infected in an everyday scenario | 19:19 |
| de-facto | i was mentioning that because i wanted to give a hint at it being capable to develop its own (self amplifying) time dynamic, as we could observe in the exponential runaways with R>1 prior to the peaks we have observed | 19:21 |
| de-facto | but yeah there is a big delay between the infection and the time of death, e.g. right now we got too many COVID fatalities in Germany in relation to incidence | 19:23 |
| de-facto | some potential there to improve with reducing COVID fatalities, also in comparison to other (EU) countries | 19:23 |
| Arsanerit | I think monitoring infections makes sense, because it gives an indication of how risky it is "outside", and a first indication if there's going to be trouble in hospitals soon. | 19:26 |
| de-facto | yes exactly | 19:26 |
| Arsanerit | But for reopening it may be better to look at intensive care occupancy, because I suspect that as more people are vaccinated, we're going to see more infections that do not lead to intensive care occupancy | 19:27 |
| Arsanerit | so the calibration between "number of infections now" and "number of ICU later" changes | 19:27 |
| Arsanerit | but of course exponential growth is bad in any case | 19:27 |
| de-facto | yes that would be the hope, vaccinations capable of decoupling infections from hospitalizations, to a certain degree they can do that | 19:28 |
| de-facto | but as indicator for control, the infections themselves count as its how every case starts, so for controlling everything that comes after the initial infection the control must be about the infections themselves | 19:28 |
| de-facto | example: even if the number of hospitalizations would be reduced to 1% of prior vaccinations (arbitrary value for this example), if infections would be 1/1% = 100-fold the hospitalization numbers would be just the same, yet with the disadvantage that now controlling 100-fold the infection numbers is much more of a challenge than only having to control 1/100-th | 19:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +1193 cases (now 4.3 million), +28 deaths (now 127253) since 23 hours ago | 19:31 |
| de-facto | that is not even to begin to speak about breeding evasive mutants in a partially immunized population | 19:35 |
| de-facto | example2: allowing 100-fold infections because expecting reduction of severe progressions to 1% by vaccinations (again arbitrary value for example) could breed an evasive mutant leading to a peak in severe progressions and then a 100-fold of incidence has to be brought down, that will require much more efforts and time than if it never was tolerated to go that high (or breed mutants) | 19:37 |
| de-facto | (ok to be fair those would be worst case scenarios, yet we should avoid any of such things to happen) | 19:37 |
| de-facto | i see it like this: vaccinations lower the probability of transmission, hence help us with ensuring R<1 with less restrictions, but that can never be an excuse to tolerate *any* VoC to rise with R>1 ever | 19:40 |
| de-facto | and R(B.1.617.2) > 1 right now is not tolerable imho, this must be changed with both NPIs + Vaccinations working hand in hand | 19:41 |
| de-facto | any scenario of high incidence is not to be tolerated, as are any indications that such a scenario is eminent to unfold | 19:42 |
| de-facto | whatever it takes to ensure that R>1 does not happen must be done, regardless of the costs, if vaccinations make it easier to achieve that we are lucky, but they cant replace control over incidence, they just help with controlling it as one of many measures | 19:44 |
| de-facto | actually there is only one indicator for control: incidence. | 19:45 |
| loudbrute | .title https://www.tellerreport.com/life/2021-06-18-pcr-tests-evolve-to-better-spot-disturbing-mutations.B1fvBrAFiu.html | 20:00 |
| Brainstorm | loudbrute: From www.tellerreport.com: PCR tests evolve to better spot disturbing mutations - Teller Report | 20:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +13575 cases (now 1.8 million), +149 deaths (now 58590) since 21 hours ago | 20:08 |
| loudbrute | russian roul... i mean sputnik is the best against indian variant, according to russians | 20:11 |
| loudbrute | .title https://www.tellerreport.com/tech/2021-06-18-rdif-named-sputnik-v-the-most-effective-against-the-indian-strain-of-covid-19.r17Bz2FKoO.html | 20:11 |
| Brainstorm | loudbrute: From www.tellerreport.com: RDIF named Sputnik V the most effective against the Indian strain of COVID-19 - Teller Report | 20:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Altimmune Inc: AdCOVID → https://is.gd/bnKPpU | 20:12 |
| de-facto | have they already finished their trials? | 20:18 |
| de-facto | i thought they just started with the design phase? | 20:18 |
| de-facto | ah the current one i see | 20:19 |
| de-facto | hmm statement, id like to see the data | 20:19 |
| de-facto | hmm its really hard to get any information about Sputnik because of all the PR work making useless noise | 20:30 |
| de-facto | it seems there are news rumors about them claiming it was more effective against delta, but also that they may offer "adjusted" update shots against delta | 20:31 |
| de-facto | whatever that means, its such imprecise information that its hard to distinguish if they mean "hey our current version is extra cool" or if they really updated the DNA-plasmid sequence to take the capabilities of the delta variant into account | 20:32 |
| de-facto | i guess we would have to wait for them to publish something themselves, i give null confidence about all that media PR stuff, the journalists probably dont even know what they write about themselves | 20:33 |
| de-facto | why cant they just submit a paper and get it through peer review then link on it from their website and send that to journalists as basis to write their articles about? | 20:34 |
| loudbrute | .title https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2021-06-16-british-virologist--it-s-plague-or-cholera.SJlPRce_j_.html | 20:42 |
| Brainstorm | loudbrute: From www.tellerreport.com: British virologist: It's plague or cholera - Teller Report | 20:42 |
| loudbrute | this table is way off both in transmissibility and severity for prob most of these, but maybe interesting (cholera has R0=2.1 and bubonic plague 1 in it): | 20:43 |
| loudbrute | .title https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/ng-interactive/2014/oct/15/visualised-how-ebola-compares-to-other-infectious-diseases | 20:44 |
| Brainstorm | loudbrute: From www.theguardian.com: Visualised: how Ebola compares to other infectious diseases | News | The Guardian | 20:44 |
| loudbrute | you saw that guardian link? | 20:45 |
| decompyler | covid is a scam | 20:46 |
| nixonix | it was me! | 20:53 |
| LjL | nixonix, decompyler was you? | 20:53 |
| nixonix | no, loudbrute | 20:53 |
| LjL | well i only banned decompyler :P | 20:53 |
| LjL | although i was wondering wtf teller report was | 20:54 |
| LjL | and whether you were someone i should keep an eye on :P | 20:54 |
| nixonix | yeah, im very hard to recognize when im incognito | 20:54 |
| LjL | i just came out of my ZNC doing a rollercoaster of disconnections, plus my 4G data also doing a rollercoaster of disconnections | 20:54 |
| LjL | agent provocateur :P | 20:55 |
| nixonix | i think polio had somewhat similar age/seriousness profile than sars2, and general severity also close. that table had it much more severe. symptoms different for sure | 20:56 |
| nixonix | .title https://news.yahoo.com/dawson-creek-writer-dies-suicide-151400388.html | 21:01 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From news.yahoo.com: ‘Dawson’s Creek’ writer dies by suicide after battling long-haul COVID | 21:01 |
| de-facto | polio is very scary with all those that ended up in iron lungs | 21:02 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2021-06-17-multi-country-study--female-patients-with-new-crown-are-more-likely-to-have-long-term-sequelae-than-men.r1xI3Smts_.html | 21:05 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.tellerreport.com: Multi-country study: Female patients with new crown are more likely to have long-term sequelae than men - Teller Report | 21:05 |
| nixonix | crown=corona naturally, these are through google translation or something, from different countries | 21:05 |
| nixonix | finland, small sample but interesting imo, translator used: "According to Yle's survey of hospital districts, those covered by full vaccine protection have hardly needed intensive care. | 21:17 |
| nixonix | https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11986533 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11986533 | 21:17 |
| LjL | what is this teller report anyway, i barely see any mention of it | 21:18 |
| nixonix | in that other article from finland, of the 17 deaths in that hospital, 11 had the first dose, and 1 had both. but obv old and/or fragile, so weaker immune reaction for vaccine | 21:18 |
| nixonix | i have linked them here or i think on the other chan in the past. nice way to find information from non-english countries, to google tellerreport: site:tellerreport.com delta variant | 21:19 |
| LjL | my internet is coming and going and ZNC isn't helping | 21:19 |
| nixonix | znc cant keep connection or your client to znc? | 21:20 |
| nixonix | put it on another vps? | 21:20 |
| LjL | i think ZNC has stayed connected | 21:20 |
| LjL | it's on my home server | 21:20 |
| LjL | i have two issues | 21:20 |
| LjL | first, when i had the route_replies modules enabled, HexChat just kept getting disconnected. that stopped when i removed route_replies, although #znc it's telling me it's a coincidence, but i doubt it, it was very persistent | 21:20 |
| LjL | the other issue is since i'm connected through mobile data (i'm in the alps), my phone started going crazy and losing signal even though another phone with the same carrier is staying connected to LTE fine | 21:21 |
| LjL | so anyway, lots of confusion | 21:21 |
| nixonix | and all this started when you got your 1st vaccine dose? | 21:21 |
| LjL | :D | 21:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The largest gay pride parade in central Europe took place again in Warsaw for the first time in two years after a pandemic-induced break — and amid a backlash in Poland and Hungary against LGBT rights → https://is.gd/ZWN1BQ | 21:24 |
| nixonix | https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/tiny-injectable-chips-use-ultrasound-to-monitor-your-body-from-the-inside/ | 21:25 |
| nixonix | ultrasound yeah, but fits in needle | 21:25 |
| nixonix | in spain too | 21:29 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.tellerreport.com/life/2021-06-15-the-unexpected-rebound-of-the-virus-that-affects-children.rJf00pnUo_.html | 21:29 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.tellerreport.com: The unexpected rebound of the virus that affects children - Teller Report | 21:29 |
| LjL | nixonix, but this is not COVID? | 21:30 |
| de-facto | idk i mean children usually get infected with a LOT of respiratory diseases in the kindergarden and school, ask parents they will tell you how often their kids are having a cold | 21:30 |
| de-facto | so its a constant stimulation for their immune system, it builds up "competence" against fighting those, its like a training, and if they get isolated for so long such infections are also prevented | 21:31 |
| nixonix | no, rsv in spain, and also in israel, something they havent seen before outside of winter seasons | 21:31 |
| nixonix | that large scale, that is | 21:31 |
| de-facto | then if they come back together again it may possibly be that their immune system is not "on alert" anymore as it was before, constantly activated because of those viral respiratory infections, thereby it possibly could be that now those that were isolated for so long are extra-susceptible to exposure for such viruses | 21:33 |
| nixonix | i dont believe its something like about general immune response weakened because of lockdowns and stuff. its not like when you get infections, outside of very early age, they would strengthen your immune system | 21:34 |
| LjL | nixonix, maybe during winter, lockdowns were harder and children were less likely than usual to get a yearly "cold-type" virus, and normally that's why they don't get it in the summer - because they already got it in the winter - but now it's a little different with loosening of restrictions in the summer...? | 21:34 |
| de-facto | but that is a bit of a speculation i have to admit, yet its fact that 1) normally children got a lot of respiratory diseases in that young age and 2) their immune system is not constantly activated by such infections if isolated | 21:34 |
| nixonix | another thing it can be, just that after a long pause for certain infections, there are not much immunity in population for just those. so they might all get now them at the same time, unlike at normal times | 21:34 |
| LjL | yeah that's more or less what i meant i guess | 21:35 |
| de-facto | nixonix, i partly disagree there, it may be important for some some pathogen that children may acquire immune competence at a certain age against them, either by infection or potentially also by vaccination, depending on the pathogen | 21:35 |
| de-facto | not speaking of COVID there, just to make sure, yet the hope would be that with covid it also would possibly work like that without too much harm, yet do we know that already? i doubt there is enough data about longterm effects of covid on children | 21:36 |
| nixonix | what i know about the subject, it should be at very early age. like during the first 0-2 yo. the same about those intestinal bacteria vs allergies | 21:36 |
| de-facto | its probably quite complicated subject but isolation also can have its bad effects to some degree | 21:37 |
| nixonix | its just that in general public there is a common view, that if you get flus and stuff every now and then, your immune system would get weaker. but if you have links saying opposite to my understanding, im happy to read | 21:38 |
| nixonix | *if you DONT get flus... | 21:38 |
| nixonix | isolation may mean less exercise (eg insulin production), vitamin d and stuff like that | 21:39 |
| de-facto | i think its a bit like training, if the likelihood of a pathogen probably not going berserk like COVID can in some cases it might be that its stimulating the immune response, yet some pathogen might become endemic in cells and stay there, waiting for immune response to become weak (e.g. herpes virus family) | 21:41 |
| nixonix | "if COVID-19 were in fact to cause permanent insulin-dependent diabetes, SARS-CoV-2 would be unique. Data on SARS1 are inconclusive in this regard | 21:42 |
| de-facto | btw Diabetes (was it type 1?) is one of the major indicators for severe progressions with COVID | 21:42 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-020-00339-7 | 21:43 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: Can COVID-19 cause diabetes? | Nature Metabolism | 21:43 |
| de-facto | maybe also a reason why India was hit so hard | 21:43 |
| nixonix | .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34081912/ | 21:43 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: SARS-CoV-2 infects human pancreatic β cells and elicits β cell impairment - PubMed | 21:43 |
| Krey[m] | https://invidious.kavin.rocks/watch?v=6q1RH8A3O3c | 21:46 |
| Krey[m] | O.o | 21:46 |
| Krey[m] | whereddya get human remains like that | 21:46 |
| nixonix | yeah it was about diabetes 1. btw, diabetes 1 in kids in finland has become much more rare lately, after they started adding vitamin d to milk | 21:48 |
| de-facto | hopefully COVID would not raise it again then | 21:48 |
| nixonix | theres some, not confirming connection to diabetes 2 or its developing to more severe, for vitamin d. but this was about type 1 | 21:49 |
| nixonix | i have a finnish link. translators if interested: https://www.duodecimlehti.fi/duo16222 | 21:49 |
| nixonix | what did they say about myocarditis? | 21:51 |
| Krey[m] | eh? Any news on the myocarditis in teens after PFE.N accine? | 21:52 |
| Krey[m] | *vaccine | 21:52 |
| de-facto | huh? myocarditis quite common (was it like 75% or such?) even in mild COVID cases and vaccinations slightly elevated the background expectation value (not sure about numbers but the result being many orders of magnitude lower than for COVID) | 21:52 |
| de-facto | .title https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916 | 21:53 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From jamanetwork.com: Outcomes of Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance Imaging in Patients Recently Recovered From Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) | Cardiology | JAMA Cardiology | JAMA Network | 21:53 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.studyfinds.org/brown-fat-protects-from-chronic-illnesses/ | 21:54 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.studyfinds.org: Brown fat may actually protect you from chronic conditions, including diabetes and heart failure - Study Finds | 21:54 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.studyfinds.org: Brown fat may actually protect you from chronic conditions, including diabetes and heart failure - Study Finds | 21:54 |
| nixonix | yeah i meant in that emergency meeting yesterday, krey was following the subject | 21:54 |
| Krey[m] | they said that it was cancelled! | 21:54 |
| Krey[m] | did they actually had it | 21:54 |
| Krey[m] | 💢 | 21:54 |
| nixonix | aaaAAAaaaAAAAA | 21:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Brazil surpasses 500,000 Covid-19 deaths. → https://is.gd/iym654 | 21:54 |
| Krey[m] | nope delayes bcs biden recognizes that slavery is bad enough to make another holiday over it | 21:55 |
| Krey[m] | 💢 | 21:55 |
| Krey[m] | how is it emergency meeting when you can delay it for the next week | 21:55 |
| Krey[m] | 💢 | 21:55 |
| Krey[m] | then it's not emergency kurva! | 21:56 |
| Krey[m] | 💢 | 21:56 |
| nixonix | isnt it kurwa? | 21:56 |
| Krey[m] | that's polish | 21:56 |
| Krey[m] | i am czech | 21:56 |
| Krey[m] | ehwww | 21:56 |
| nixonix | the only polish word i know, and the least number of consonants | 21:56 |
| Krey[m] | moravak | 21:56 |
| Krey[m] | czechs are disgusting~ | 21:56 |
| nixonix | another reinfection study, this one in switzerland | 22:13 |
| nixonix | .title https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab495/6287116 | 22:13 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From academic.oup.com: Risk of reinfection after seroconversion to SARS-CoV-2: A population-based propensity-score matched cohort study | Clinical Infectious Diseases | Oxford Academic | 22:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Fresh protests in Brazil against Bolsonaro’s handling of Covid pandemic | Brazil → https://is.gd/e7uOgt | 22:15 |
| Krey[m] | https://freespeech.firedragonstudios.com/web/statuses/106439248614259804 💢 | 22:21 |
| nixonix | sars2 ferritin nanoparticle vaccines, and alf or alfq adjuvants... somethign new to me, have to read later, but short summary if familiar with those? | 22:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mozambique: +244 cases (now 72367), +3 deaths (now 847) since 20 hours ago — Germany: +515 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 22:37 |
| LjL | de-facto, what was that strange pseudo-scientist with a site or pdf that predicted with fancy biology descriptions i couldn't make sense of (whether they made any sense or not) that vaccines would just make the virus tougher and attack younger people more | 22:59 |
| LjL | although i guess he didn't have a better counter-suggestion than just "let the virus do whatever and do nothing about it" | 22:59 |
| nixonix | there is a view, that population should be vaccinated fast, so that virus would have less chances to develop vaccine breakthrough variants | 23:36 |
| nixonix | obviously this wasnt possible because way too many ppl were dying and not enough vaccines available. and those current VOC variants developed before vaccines were available, or possibly the indian variant when only very few were | 23:38 |
| nixonix | uk is a lab for those type of concerns, when they had long intervals, and while faster than other europe, still not very vast vaccinations. and lots of infections during the winter, and largish population too | 23:39 |
| nixonix | and it seems no new VOCs developed there during the vaccinations | 23:40 |
| nixonix | so imagine that eg europe would have waited till december 2021 perhaps, so that we would have enough vaccines for all. and only then started to vaccinate everybody in a few weeks | 23:43 |
| nixonix | i dont know if those scientists that had that view really wanted that.. | 23:44 |
| LjL | my mom just got a "green pass" SMS, even though she only had one shot... i have not yet looked up information about this green pass thing, because i wasn't expecting it so soon, but for instance i wonder, i know we can have it on the "Io" app, on the "Immuni" app, from pharmacies, from our doctor in paper form... what if i get it on one of the apps, but then i also want it in paper form because maybe i want to get rid of the app? i want to hope i can have it on | 23:49 |
| LjL | multiple media, but i have no clue | 23:49 |
| nixonix | old: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/28/green-pass-how-are-vaccine-passports-working-in-israel | 23:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: Number of coronavirus deaths in Brazil surpasses half a million → https://is.gd/Jd1HO0 | 23:58 |
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