libera/##covid-19/ Monday, 2021-06-21

nixonix	and the coverage will never be high enough without those not having jab not get infected, most of them, especially if kids wont be vaxed in tight schedule	00:00
nixonix	-"not"	00:01
de-facto	hmm what was vaccine efficacy against B.1.617.2 for symptomatic endpoints?	00:01
nixonix	its not known that accurately. what was again in uk studies?	00:02
de-facto	from your BMJ link above they claim BNT would be 88% against delta	00:02
nixonix	then again some studies had it even a bit more immune escaping than SA variant	00:03
nixonix	so its still uncertain information	00:03
nixonix	israel only have 60% vax coverage or so, lower restrictions although differing for non-vaxed, and not much cases. but they likely have lots of immunity from infections in just that population that is more likely to not have the jab	00:05
nixonix	still everywhere ppl say, look at israel, 60% vax coverage is enogh	00:05
nixonix	ugh	00:05
nixonix	winter is coming	00:06
nixonix	those travelling to/from russia now should be locked down like.. i dont know, what animals you lock down?	00:08
de-facto	so then assuming in an unaware naive population R0(B.1.617.2) ~ 6 (from your BBC/ZOE video) we would become for B.1.617.2 endemic R = R0 ( 1 - v e) == 1 hence we would need to vaccinate v = (R0 -R) / ( e R0) = (6-1)/(0.88 6) = 0.95 when vaccine efficacy in preventing transmission would be e = 0.88 (but that was symptomatic endpoint)	00:08
de-facto	so hmm it seems its impossible to control delta with just vaccinations, it only can be controlled with Rt < R0 by NPIs	00:09
nixonix	remember it wanes down with time	00:09
de-facto	that makes it even more difficult	00:09
de-facto	so yeah vaccinations will not be able to control this variant without NPIs	00:09
nixonix	and thats just for symptomatic infections, how about asymptomatic vaxed spreaders. maybe its minor factor, but can we be sure, even like 6 months after jabs	00:10
de-facto	yes efficacy for asymptomatic infections and spread will be less than for symptomatic endpoints	00:11
nixonix	drosten said, everybody will get immunized. i say, we waxed prob will get it too, maybe it doesnt matter much, but maybe it will bite our telomeres	00:11
de-facto	no because severity will come down by a lot when the immune system is not naive anymore	00:12
de-facto	also above calculation assumed all properties are averaged in a population, maybe preventing those few high contact rate scenarios with most contributions can already bring down R enough that vaccinations can control it again, but that would substract the "unaware" from the above assumption	00:14
nixonix	some consequences seem to be associated to mild cases too, as often or almost than to severe	00:15
de-facto	yes but do we know if things like long-covid also would happen for mild vaccine breakthroughs?	00:15
nixonix	like in this	00:16
nixonix	.title https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/early/2021/06/03/jnnp-2021-326405	00:16
Brainstorm	nixonix: From jnnp.bmj.com: Neurology and neuropsychiatry of COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis of the early literature reveals frequent CNS manifestations and key emerging narratives \| Journal of Neurology, [...]	00:16
nixonix	yeah we dont know, maybe it doesnt bite my telomeres. but i wonder if i still try to keep distance and avoid crowds untill we know more	00:17
de-facto	i continue with distancing even with vaccination until incidence came down	00:20
de-facto	the only metric for exposure is incidence	00:20
de-facto	exposure probability that is	00:20
nixonix	for sure it affects the required herd immunity treshold a lot, if those that spread it more have got it way more often than those that dont. but with vaccines it goes the other way, those that dont spread much are more likely to get the jab	00:20
nixonix	so it will be closer to evenly spread immunity after vaccinations, than before them	00:21
nixonix	so N-protein antibody tests would be nice, to see if you got the infection at some point, when vaccinated	00:22
de-facto	yes seroprevalence studies for estimating SARS-CoV-2 spread cant be done against S-protein anymore since vaccinations started	00:24
nixonix	in hospital, indian variant:	00:25
nixonix	Of the 42 infected staff members, 17 had received both vaccine doses and two the first dose. The other staff members were unvaccinated because they were either not part of the regular staff or not involved in patient care.	00:25
nixonix	and what i heard, almost all had pfizer	00:25
nixonix	prob in jan-feb or so, most if not all with shorter interval 3 weeks i suppose	00:26
de-facto	where was that?	00:26
nixonix	i linked it another day, but it might have been in discussion with ljl	00:26
nixonix	.title https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/domestic/19340-outbreak-in-haemeenlinna-hospital-led-to-hundred-infections-dozen-deaths.html	00:26
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.helsinkitimes.fi: Outbreak in Hämeenlinna hospital led to a hundred infections, dozen deaths	00:26
nixonix	mostly our hospitals dont look like that, thankfully...	00:27
nixonix	universal masking (surgical, check the details somewhere) was in use there, exp prob some special things like around known sars2 cases	00:28
nixonix	afterwards they said, they are now thinking if they should start using FFP2	00:29
nixonix	then i read some chief from our health institute didnt think that was necessary change (after the current epidemic was in control, that is)	00:30
LjL	ugh	00:31
LjL	had a small panic attack from password maze	00:31
LjL	because i realized it'd been 15 days since my first shot, and so i might get the code for the green certificate today	00:31
LjL	suddenly realized i wasn't sure how to access a bunch of government things	00:31
nixonix	anyways those hospital breakthroughs would support my hypothesis, that vaccinated can get it if the viral dose is high	00:33
nixonix	and it will take a bite of your telomeres!	00:34
nixonix	aaaAAAaaaaAAAAA	00:34
nixonix	no it doesnt, no it doesnt	00:34
de-facto	is that a poly-A tail :D	00:34
nixonix	no, i thought about it another day, to have it ready for krey	00:35
de-facto	it only can bite those telomeres that it infected	00:36
de-facto	if it really would do such nasty things	00:36
nixonix	no, it does it with enough oxidative stress. it isnt just infected cells	00:36
nixonix	infected cells will be destroyed any	00:37
nixonix	way	00:37
nixonix	and mild cases are enough, it seems	00:37
de-facto	do we really know that telomere thing for sure?	00:37
nixonix	no	00:38
nixonix	but it looked very plausible, i dont know how could they get it wrong	00:38
de-facto	or is it only appearing in special cases with system wide inflammative runaway etc	00:38
nixonix	Accordingly, the vast majority (76.6%) of post-COVID19 had an average DelyaAge acceleration of 10.45 years (Figure 2, red dots). Considering that this method has a tolerance of about ±5.2 years (26)(37), the corrected average accelerated DeltaAge for this group was 5.25	00:40
Krey[m]	WHO PING MEH	00:42
de-facto	.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.23.21255973v2	00:42
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: EVIDENCE FOR BIOLOGICAL AGE ACCELERATION AND TELOMERE SHORTENING IN COVID19 SURVIVORS \| medRxiv	00:42
de-facto	Krey[m], PONG	00:42
Krey[m]	aaaaaa	00:43
Krey[m]	ah you ping me? O.o	00:43
Krey[m]	O.o	00:43
de-facto	nope	00:43
Krey[m]	<de-facto ".title https://www.medrxiv.org/c"> is this for me? ^-^	00:43
Krey[m]	ohw ;c	00:43
de-facto	its the preprint where nixonix cited from	00:43
Krey[m]	.. does that mean that my gf is going to be old and wringly in few months assuming her being a covid-19 survivor? O.o	00:44
nixonix	maybe not if she got the vax	00:44
Krey[m]	she did O.o	00:44
LjL	is that the telomere thing	00:44
LjL	oh yeah	00:45
Krey[m]	i have other gf who didn't get the vaccine bcs she has a high af ig..M A ehh and the last thing	00:45
Krey[m]	should i force her to get vaccine? O.o	00:45
Krey[m]	also her mother same O.o	00:46
* Krey[m] is terrified that his gf is going to look like old granny now x.x		00:47
LjL	how many girlfriends do you have O.o	00:48
de-facto	nixonix, curious question: if they have found those telomere shortening in COVID cases, how could they exclude that pre-existing shortened telomeres would potentially increase covid risk?	00:48
LjL	anyway is her IgM high because she had COVID, or what?	00:48
nixonix	they also had persisting reduction in ace2, which prob means the damage will continue for a long time. and perhaps explains some of the long covid symptoms	00:48
Krey[m]	<LjL "how many girlfriends do you have"> 17 and 4 boyfriends ^-^	00:48
Krey[m]	and had one trans but that is psycho who hate me now u-u	00:49
LjL	that's... interesting	00:49
Krey[m]	<LjL "anyway is her IgM high because s"> yes she had covid and her igM is over the roof like 12 i think	00:49
de-facto	nixonix, what i mean is could it be that there is some kind of bias, COVID selecting people with pre-existing conditions that later would be interpreted as results from COVID (rather than existing already before that)	00:49
LjL	well it's not crucial that she get the vaccine, at least she can wait	00:49
nixonix	i cant remember for sure, but i think their conclusion was that it was the result of the infection, not so that it was before and made them more apt to get the infection	00:50
de-facto	(not sure if that makes sense, just curious how they would exclude such mechanisms)	00:50
nixonix	would have to read again, maybe tomorrow	00:50
Krey[m]	<LjL "well it's not crucial that she g"> but de-facto just shared the thing saying that she will get older u.u	00:50
LjL	well the vaccine won't stop that, i don't think	00:50
Krey[m]	O.o	00:50
LjL	she already had COVID, can't go back in time and un-have it	00:50
Krey[m]	clarification: accelerated aging~	00:51
Krey[m]	<LjL "she already had COVID, can't go "> well she has a sister so in theory that is possible~	00:51
de-facto	we dont know that, we are discussing a preprint	00:51
LjL	yes, if telomeres actually got shorter, the vaccine won't make them longer again	00:51
LjL	and yeah it's all very speculative and hypothetical	00:51
nixonix	vax may reduce post covid symptoms. not sure how solid evidence it has though	00:51
Krey[m]	<de-facto "we dont know that, we are discus"> ah oke O.o	00:51
Krey[m]	ping me when you know!	00:51
Krey[m]	x.x	00:51
LjL	but anyway it's not related to her getting the vaccine, really	00:51
LjL	Krey[m], also you shouldn't force anyone to do anything, generally speaking	00:52
nixonix	but maybe things like persisting reduced ace2 could be affected by vax, hmm	00:52
LjL	convince them if you think you have solid reasons to	00:52
LjL	just saying'	00:52
Krey[m]	<LjL "Krey, also you shouldn't force a"> i don't force them they do whatever i tell them~	00:52
Krey[m]	too brainwashed~ :p	00:52
LjL	also this is an italian study from mostly Milan, who'd trust such a thing :P	00:53
LjL	(actually not mostly Milan, just two/three authors are in Milan universities)	00:53
nixonix	the telomere thing?	00:54
de-facto	at least they had more than enough of cases there at some time	00:54
Krey[m]	hmmm tru most of the italians i know seems degenerated too much~ so i guess you are right in that	00:54
LjL	nixonix, yeah	00:55
Krey[m]	but if she gets too old i blame you	00:55
Krey[m]	💢	00:55
de-facto	but i am still skeptical about potential biasing, how to distinguish between correlation and causation here?	00:55
LjL	Krey[m], just tell her that everyone should get the vaccine, even if they've had COVID, but here people who've had COVID wait some months before getting the vaccine	00:55
de-facto	maybe they had a clever method for doing that though	00:56
Krey[m]	Why would you get a vaccine if your igM is over the roof?	00:56
LjL	de-facto, well i note the abstract makes no mention of causation, only association, and while i didn't read the study, "causation" or "causality" never show up in it :P	00:56
nixonix	prob not much biasing who gets the infection and who doesnt (like those with shorter TL would get it more often), but it might have selection by who is aware of it, like asymptomatic or not	00:56
de-facto	interesting, so they dont make that claim with that word then (possibly not at all)	00:56
LjL	Krey[m], for the same reason that you get a second vaccine shot after the first. i'm not sure the mechanisms are completely clear, but it helps make your immune system remember better/for longer	00:57
LjL	de-facto, they do immediately mention ACE2 amount correlating with age, which is what nixonix was talking about, so they almost certainly are thinking about it, but if they're wise they're going to be careful making a causality claim, precisely because, is it telomeres? is it ACE2? is it their interaction? is it inverse causality?	00:58
Krey[m]	how O.o that doesn't seem to make sense assuming that there are two shots bcs getting one would increase the likelyhood of mortality and severe effects while just one dose doesn't generate enough immunoglobin?	00:58
Krey[m]	also people apparently have just like 8 igM after second dose.. and she's on 12 O.o	00:58
LjL	what	00:58
Krey[m]	or so i was explained by someone in a lab coat who seemed to know what they are doing~	00:59
LjL	good	00:59
LjL	so trust the guys in the lab coats	00:59
LjL	i don't even have a coat, nevermind a lab	00:59
Krey[m]	i don't trust anyone, but science	00:59
Krey[m]	💢	00:59
Krey[m]	and i like blaming people ^0^	01:00
Krey[m]	it's like herd intelligence	01:00
LjL	can you stop doing the 💢 thing, at least on its own line? it's a bit disruptive on irc	01:00
LjL	okay then forget i ever said anything	01:00
Krey[m]	but when i do two lines it's bigger u.u	01:00
LjL	i don't want to be blamed for anyone's aging or dying or anything	01:00
LjL	Krey[m], it's not bigger on irc	01:00
LjL	so it's only bigger for you, right now	01:00
Krey[m]	depends on the client >.>	01:00
Krey[m]	ok no blaming but tell me u.u	01:00
nixonix	seems to be anger symbol	01:00
Krey[m]	<LjL "so it's only bigger for you, rig"> what's your client i write a plugin that does that for ya	01:01
LjL	nixonix, well, then it seems to work, it makes me a bit angry!	01:01
LjL	Krey[m], no thanks!	01:01
Krey[m]	yay	01:01
Krey[m]	:P	01:01
Krey[m]	howddya figure out how to get trusted info on the aging thing then u.u	01:02
LjL	you don't	01:03
LjL	it's a recent preprint, nobody knows	01:03
Krey[m]	LjL: what about instead of blaming i will stop training you to trigger a neurogical response each time you see 💢 symbol~	01:03
LjL	"not knowing" is a bastion of science	01:03
LjL	if you like science, then embrace not knowing	01:03
Krey[m]	right >.>	01:03
LjL	¿why not both?	01:03
Krey[m]	xD	01:03
* Krey[m] is going to bully her with that preprint anyway~		01:04
LjL	no	01:04
Krey[m]	"Oh no you are aging! must be because of the covid thing look!"	01:05
* Krey[m] smugs		01:05
LjL	the vaccine is only mentioned in that preprint once, in passing	01:05
LjL	nixonix may make a lot of conjectures on the vaccine helping against this hypothetical risk	01:05
LjL	and he's no fool, so i respect his conjectures	01:05
LjL	but i don't think you should scare some other person using a preprint and someone's conjecture that the vaccine (not mentioned in the preprint) affects what the preprint says	01:06
LjL	instead if you intuitively think she should get the vaccine, then if my simplistic answer about "COVID is like the first dose" is too simplistic, research that, research why experts tend to think people who had COVID should probably get at least one vaccine dose anyway	01:07
de-facto	yeah dont promote distrust in science by implying claims that even a preprint did not make	01:07
Krey[m]	<LjL "instead if you intuitively think"> what's your hypothesis on the first dose being helpful then? I can't imagine it being any beneficial for someone with such a high igM ... currently i want to only give it to her if her immunoglobin drops too much	01:10
Krey[m]	O.o	01:10
LjL	aAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaa	01:11
Krey[m]	<de-facto "yeah dont promote distrust in sc"> but the bullying potential in that u.u	01:11
Krey[m]	<LjL "aAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaa"> xD	01:11
de-facto	btw its IgG that is long lasting not IgM	01:13
Krey[m]	right O.o i forgot the name x.x	01:13
de-facto	and of course cellular immunity, but thats much more difficult to measure	01:13
* Krey[m] remembered A and M though~		01:13
de-facto	IgA is on the mucus	01:13
Krey[m]	yep yep	01:14
Krey[m]	can you even get infected if you have high igA and low igG and igM	01:14
Krey[m]	hmm i guess through blood and and eyes x.x	01:15
de-facto	depends on where the contamination happens i guess	01:15
de-facto	eyes also got IgA i would assume	01:15
Krey[m]	hmm O.o	01:15
de-facto	(but i dont know for sure, yet it would make sense to me)	01:15
Krey[m]	i was told that eyes don't have igA O.o	01:15
* LjL doesn't bring up the story of the doctor whose Ebola persisted inside the eyes		01:15
de-facto	inside but not outside	01:15
LjL	yeah	01:16
LjL	i think you could lick his eyes safely	01:16
LjL	or maybe not	01:16
de-facto	in the tears fluid there are antibodies	01:16
Krey[m]	hmm could that doctor see the ebola? i can see see those wringly things when i look in the light~	01:16
LjL	Krey[m], oh that usually means you're dying	01:16
nixonix	any ideas what could cause the persisting reduced ace2? post covid	01:17
Krey[m]	<LjL "Krey, oh that usually means you'"> nah it's the cells inside the eye ball that distort the light on the optical nerve~	01:17
nixonix	or the fixes for that?	01:17
Krey[m]	or blood particle blocking the light which causes those black things~	01:17
de-facto	nixonix, cells are scared to expose ACE2 because they have seen what happened to those that did too much of that	01:17
de-facto	:D	01:17
nixonix	or mechanisms, how vaccine post covid could reduce long haulers symptoms?	01:17
Krey[m]	<LjL "Krey, oh that usually means you'"> can't trick me! ... my psycho doctor aunt already did that when i was 4 yo	01:18
Krey[m]	x.x	01:18
nixonix	i have some ideas forming, but id like to hear other hypotheses too	01:18
Krey[m]	and then she put something acidic in my eyes to "stop it" 💢	01:18
LjL	nixonix, well... cells with ACE2 receptors get destroyed by the virus... presumably they will start proliferating again after the virus is gone, but how long would that take? to go back to the same amount of ACE2 receptors? on the other hand if the amount of ACE2 just keeps going down, then i don't know. if anything, usually when a receptor is used a lot, it would be upregulated and more of it would arise, right?	01:18
Krey[m]	cells with ACE2 get destroyed? O.o i though they get converted by the virus not destroyed	01:19
nixonix	cell signalling cytokenes might affect the experssion but those infected cells will get destroyed	01:19
nixonix	obvious would be that those type of cells that have lots of ace2 often get infected. would that be enough to affect?	01:20
nixonix	if not then there is another mechanism	01:20
de-facto	so those cells with high ACE2 exposure have a higher infection risk hence higher destruction risk, hence they cant divide anymore and have ancestors	01:20
* Krey[m] is confused by the destruction part		01:21
nixonix	like i wrote. but i think that effect woulnt be high enough, perhaps, to affect for a long time	01:21
de-facto	question is from where did those cells get their property to expose high ACE2 densities	01:22
* Krey[m] goes to duck it then 💢		01:22
nixonix	those cells, if they are APCs, will get destroyed by cytotoxic immune cells eventually. if they are not, then i dont know, could they hive the virus for like years?	01:23
de-facto	spacecraft, please stop the spam	01:23
* Krey[m] is pretty sure that it's not destructing, but converting after ducking the things		01:23
Krey[m]	since the SARS-CoV-2 particle binding to the cells with ACE2 receptors is injecting it's RNA to alter... ehh it's RNA so it can't convert DNA cell in RNA right... so is it just sticking to the ACE2 and then consuming the cell? O.o	01:24
nixonix	anyways it seems the infection messes up the RAAS for quite a while somehow, and maybe its the mitochondrial damage that inflammation caused, that could perhaps be treated	01:25
Krey[m]	pff fine i don't need to know 💢	01:25
de-facto	Krey[m], it injects its RNA to force the cell to produce many more copies of itself, then the cell explodes at some point	01:25
nixonix	by antioxidants or similar treatments they use for anti-aging treatments	01:26
Krey[m]	so it's RNA hijacking DNA cell that then produces DNA that is altered by the RNA cell? O.o	01:26
de-facto	nothing with DNA	01:26
de-facto	not with this virus	01:27
Krey[m]	eh? you said it injects in DNA?	01:27
nixonix	rna stays outside of nucleus	01:27
Krey[m]	oh	01:27
de-facto	RNA i talked about single stranded RNA	01:27
Krey[m]	so it's not nucleus of DNA?	01:27
Krey[m]	i though it's DNA wih ACE2 receptors no that it binds to no? O.o	01:28
de-facto	it does not matter, the highjacked cell is converted into a virion factory, it produces so many virions that it busts at some point releasing all those new virions, and about 1 of 100 produced virions is fit enough to infect another cell	01:29
de-facto	but one cell can produce thousands of such virions, hence more then enough to reproduce	01:29
Krey[m]	hmm i see O.o	01:29
de-facto	and that only takes a few hours, i think 10h or such iirc	01:29
* Krey[m] is wasthing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DGwOJXSxqg		01:29
Brainstorm	Updates for Canada: +14 deaths (now 26061) since 22 hours ago	01:33
Krey[m]	hmm that just mentiones ribosomes O.o	01:33
nixonix	.title https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1513/AnnalsATS.202009-1175OC	01:33
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.atsjournals.org: Persistent Poor Health after COVID-19 Is Not Associated with Respiratory Complications or Initial Disease Severity \| Annals of the American Thoracic Society	01:34
de-facto	ok they also mention another mechanism, that virions would "bud off" a cells membrane, yet i read that cells produce so many of them that they eventually die or bust from that, it may also depend on the type of cell i guess	01:34
nixonix	btw one mutation in the indian variant increases cell fusion	01:35
nixonix	not sure if that could be affected by kinase pathway modulators, like if you remember those filopods (i havent checked if it has lead to some possible treatments though)	01:36
Krey[m]	am i the only one who finds it suspicious that all mutations that we are aware of are just getting progressively worse? O.o Almost feels like bad actors are engineering it to be more deadly and contagious	01:37
nixonix	no i have thought it too. but its just paranoia i think	01:39
de-facto	it optimizes itself, just by bruteforcing with enough incidence and natural selection giving the least disadvantage to the fittest and most evasive mutants that then reproduce easier hence rise and at some point we become aware of their increased abilities (that looks bad from our perspective of course)	01:39
nixonix	we are in a race when its improving, and we are impoving the vaccinations to the variants	01:40
Krey[m]	hm O.o so you are saying that there are X amount of mild mutations and we are only paying attention to the one that are the most dangerous per statistics ?	01:40
nixonix	or are we. pfizer?	01:40
Krey[m]	<nixonix "or are we. pfizer?"> eh?	01:40
nixonix	whens the indian optimized vax coming out of production line	01:41
Krey[m]	O.o i though pfyzer is effective agains delta	01:41
de-facto	yes of course the source of change are randomly occurring mutations, hence the very very majority of them are just failures and dead ends	01:42
nixonix	could be more effective, when at least some countries wont get enough immunity from vaccinations, that 100% wont take anyway	01:42
Krey[m]	hmm i see O.o	01:42
nixonix	maybe not even 80% of the adults	01:42
de-facto	we never become aware of them because they dont reproduce (at all or so ineffective that they wane off)	01:42
nixonix	then kids, who knows when and how many	01:42
Krey[m]	hm O.o also when is the CDC emergency meeting that can wait until next week	01:45
nixonix	it will last for 3 days. are you ready to watch it for that long?	01:48
nixonix	The June 18, 2021 COVID-19 meeting is being rescheduled due to the observation of the Juneteenth National Independence Day holiday. The discussion will be rescheduled to be included as part of the June 23-25 ACIP meeting.	01:48
Krey[m]	<nixonix "it will last for 3 days. are you"> yes	01:49
nixonix	did you reschedule your vax day or having it anyway?	01:50
nixonix	its prob nothing anyway.. the heart thinga	01:50
nixonix	was it mostly after the 2nd jab?	01:52
nixonix	after the 2nd many become somewhat sick, some more. immune reaction like in colds, that prob causes those too, mostly mild cases but can sometimes get bad	01:53
nixonix	anyways the likely reason imo	01:53
nixonix	but those common colds can be nasty sometimes. and cause damage you just are not aware of. mrna vax dont have stuff like OC43 and its neurovirulence	01:54
nixonix	trust me its probably nothing. and i wouldnt say this when theres 200 people reading if i wasnt pretty sure...	01:57
Krey[m]	<nixonix "did you reschedule your vax day "> i did x.x	01:59
Krey[m]	(i rescheduled it)	01:59
Krey[m]	and first jab	01:59
Krey[m]	nixonix: what makes you confident that it's nothing when you don't know what are the risk factors?	02:00
Krey[m]	also sent my gf on test for tri..ehh that thing in a blood that indicates muscle damage in heart x.x	02:01
nixonix	like individual risk factors? some autoimmune disorders could be that, but youd probably already know from your doctor or something if theres some extra risk involved	02:02
nixonix	"There is strong evidence for brain-related pathologies in COVID-19, some of which could be a consequence of viral neurotropism	02:02
nixonix	lowered iq too in some study anyway	02:02
nixonix	could be result of vascular damage tho, instead of neurovirulence	02:02
LjL	nixonix, there is also a direct study of brain mass reduction after COVID	02:03
Krey[m]	yep mainly invidual risk factors x.x doc said that they don't know because it's unknown what is causing it	02:03
nixonix	Our findings thus consistently relate to loss of grey matter in limbic cortical areas directly linked to the primary olfactory and gustatory system	02:04
Krey[m]	and advised agains if and said that if i get on the vaccine that she wants me to go on heart screening after 5 days O.o	02:04
LjL	one thing that is often pointed out (wrt COVID heart damage but the same would go for vaccine-induced heart damage) is that we don't usually get heart scans of people who're just out of a flu or a cold. we don't know if their hearts are inflamed or anything. it could have already happened several times in your life.	02:05
nixonix	yeah the location implies neurovirulence	02:05
LjL	of course we still want to know if the vaccine is causing it, and ideally we'd like to avoid it, so they're taking it seriously	02:05
LjL	(seriously enough to have meetings about it anyway!)	02:06
nixonix	or might imply	02:06
LjL	but try to see it in the context of all the things that happen to your body all the time	02:06
Krey[m]	i don't mind temporary damage that fixes itself and that i am aware of e.g. avoiding biking which would worsen it.. i mind permanent damage that i don't know of that can decrease life span O.o	02:07
LjL	also i'm not sure i want to open this rabbit hole again but i'm not entirely sure how you can be certain that you won't get covid because you're protecting yourself when you are french kissing a hundred girlfriends and a couple dozen boyfriends all the time, or whatever it is you're doing	02:07
Krey[m]	and heart inflammation is scary~	02:07
LjL	i really don't get the impression you are necessarily estimating your (low? maybe) chances of getting COVID reasonably	02:08
pwr22	There's no way to live a perfect life where you never suffer any events that negatively effect your lifespan imo. So far there doesn't seem to be any reason to assume the risk of vaccine is significant, and certainly not more than not getting the vaccine and risking covid 🤷‍♂️	02:08
Krey[m]	LjL: I only spent time with one girl atm who i sent on immunoglobin tests and that changes her clothes and desinfects itself when she comes to me and otherwise is at home isolated~	02:09
pwr22	So many people have taken the vaccines by not that I strongly suspect we would be seeing way more issues if they existed	02:09
pwr22	I mean we certainly saw them pretty quickly with covid itself	02:09
pwr22	and pretty much any infection isn't great and messes up stuff and causes some collateral damage	02:10
pwr22	That's just life and I would try to be okay with it as much as you can 🙂	02:10
LjL	pwr22, well, the AZ issues exist. the heart inflammation with Pfizer is probably also a real effect from what we've seen so far. i agree they are very rare but i wouldn't discount them as not-a-thing	02:10
LjL	but yeah, it's the comparison with COVID generally that makes taking the vaccine a no brainer	02:11
nixonix	Christian Drosten: Everyone will become immune. 100%. Not 70% or 80% but 100% in the population will inevitably—I would say in a window that runs from now to in another year and a half—become immune. And that will be either through vaccination or through natural infection	02:11
Krey[m]	<pwr22 "So many people have taken the va"> i rather suspect that they might have heart inflammation and not know about it	02:11
LjL	but Krey[m]'s convinced that he's fully protected against COVID... not sure how long he wants to live this "fully protected" life, but, eh.	02:11
nixonix	jesus take the wheel	02:11
Krey[m]	LjL: i am confortable with going to Q2 2022 with it~	02:11
pwr22	LjL: I didn't mean they aren't a thing, just that they are effectively very rare and covid risk almost certainly (especially at a population level - not just individual) massively outweigh them	02:11
LjL	<nixonix> saatana take the vaccine perkele	02:12
pwr22	Krey: Until we have evidence of that or that it is meaningfully harmful beyond covid itself I wouldn't worry too much	02:12
* Krey[m] even was in a bunker with air conditioning in Q1 2020~		02:13
pwr22	The immune system has a "scorched earth" approach to infections so it messes up all manner of stuff anyway	02:13
Krey[m]	Peter: any harm is harmful though.. i would probably take it if i was in a situation where i am in high risk of being exposed to covid, but i am not O.o	02:13
Krey[m]	even sold my business for that >.> my health is more important~	02:14
* pwr22 ponders whether eating a bacon sandwich is more harmful than taking a covid vaccine on average		02:14
pwr22	Krey: there is no such thing as no harm. Every second you exist you are closer to death	02:15
* Krey[m] has a vegan and healty af diet with lot of exercising~		02:15
pwr22	You might get more or less DNA damage etc	02:15
LjL	* Krey[m] has a vegan and healty af diet with lot of exercising~ ← i was so expecting this	02:15
pwr22	Too much exercise can be harmful (not saying you are doing this - just making a point)	02:15
pwr22	Maybe you should ensure you only ever go into low radiation environments to maximise your longevity	02:15
pwr22	I'm just being facetious to prove a point btw	02:16
nixonix	oh yeah, you have a radon well? or only spend time in upper floors?	02:16
Krey[m]	<pwr22 "Krey: there is no such thing as "> it's every second i invest in medicine to seek my life goal of finding a cure to aging though~ reduced IQ from loss of gray matter would have a bad effect on that~	02:16
pwr22	You have to draw a line somewhere, and if you draw it in an unreasonable place then you will have a scary life	02:16
Krey[m]	<LjL "* Krey has a vegan and healty af"> i just have that for 4 months !	02:16
pwr22	There's more to life than IQ	02:16
Krey[m]	but i had healthy diet before that x.x	02:16
pwr22	for instance, I would happily drop my IQ but lose my mental health issues 😉	02:17
Krey[m]	i prefer to stay genius~	02:17
pwr22	Also IQ is a human construct which is fairly arbitrary too 😀	02:17
Krey[m]	even though being dummer would probably handle my chronic depression x.x	02:17
Krey[m]	<pwr22 "Also IQ is a human construct whi"> tru, but the ability to learn and maintain new knowledge is important	02:17
pwr22	Sure, but it's not black and white	02:18
pwr22	You have to suffer a very significant amount of brain damage to noticeably lose quality of life	02:18
Krey[m]	i am very noticable 💢	02:19
pwr22	Also, people who are less intellectually gifted don't necessarily lead less fulfilling lives	02:19
LjL	<pwr22> for instance, I would happily drop my IQ but lose my mental health issues 😉 ← would you? that's an interesting take, i have my own paradox where my conclusion is sort of the opposite of that	02:19
LjL	that's true, but also a hard truth to swallow	02:19
pwr22	LjL: Yes, the more I've recovered my mental health also the more I am sure of that decision	02:20
Krey[m]	i prefer to keep my chronic depression if it means higher intelligence and problem solving abilities to me~	02:21
Krey[m]	also it cancels itself as i can brainwash people to do what i want and they keep me company and care to handle the chronic depression so it's just resource management at this point ^-^	02:22
nixonix	.title https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-could-age-the-brain-by-10-years-or-cause-iq-to-fall-v9s273rbs	02:23
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.thetimes.co.uk: Coronavirus could age the brain by 10 years or cause IQ to fall \| News \| The Times	02:23
nixonix	vax doesnt seem to affect it...	02:23
Krey[m]	hmm come to think of it i've noticed my gf who suffered through long covid to be more retarded~ but that might be her "personality"	02:23
nixonix	how about memory, id hate to lose that. brain aging, hmm doesnt sound promising for memory. well i took the vax	02:24
pwr22	Krey: there was a time I thought that however in my case eventually it got to the point where I couldn't do anything and ever instant of existence was agony	02:24
pwr22	And those "intelligent traits" just enabled that even more	02:24
Krey[m]	hmm i remember majority of the things since my 4yo so memory loss would probably make my life easier, but meh	02:24
LjL	Krey[m], are you resource-managing us	02:25
Krey[m]	i even remember how the doctor that delivered me smelled like and what happened before that..	02:25
nixonix	day by day, and dates too?	02:25
pwr22	It's not my place to tell you what to think or do, just sharing my opinion 🙂	02:25
nixonix	there are people who can do that. but usually lose it at some age	02:25
pwr22	Krey: re: your gf, most likely confirmation bias	02:25
Krey[m]	<LjL "Krey, are you resource-managing "> in what sense and what are the implications	02:25
pwr22	Humans aren't objective and you seem to be a worrier	02:25
LjL	Krey[m], i don't know, you mentioned you resource manage people to handle your depression! just wondering if you're doing that with us here too	02:26
pwr22	So it would stand to reason you'd connect the dots	02:26
Krey[m]	<nixonix "day by day, and dates too?"> day by day but no dates up until mine 12 because i didn't care about dates and looking at time	02:26
pwr22	What does resource manage mean 😀 ?	02:26
pwr22	In this context?	02:26
Krey[m]	making people who you made to care about you to help you manage your chronic depression while not bothering you as much mostly	02:27
LjL	pwr22, whatever he meant when he said "i can brainwash people to do what i want and they keep me company and care to handle the chronic depression so it's just resource management at this point", i want to know if it's the same here :P	02:27
Krey[m]	bcs i prefer to be alone, but can't do that bcs the pain just gets too unmanagable	02:27
Krey[m]	and i got used to them~	02:27
pwr22	Almost all things humans think are fact are just ideas, often just opinions and not even a possibility. We muddle through though 😀. I'm getting a bit philosophical now	02:27
LjL	Krey[m], do i overinterpret your language, or are you basically openly saying you're a manipulator who makes people care about you and makes them help manage your depression while making them "not bother you"	02:27
Krey[m]	also they are helpful.. love is amazing tool to manipulate people.. just today i made them to go on strawberry farm and get 80kg of those sweet things x.x	02:28
LjL	because you know, it doesn't sound great when you put it like that. although i can appreciate some honesty as none of us are little angels i guess	02:28
Krey[m]	LjL: yes i am manipulating.. i don't really have any control over it and never had.. i just see people like linux systems to which i have terminal and root account >.>	02:28
Krey[m]	it's like me looking and moving hands in specific way to make the other person to do what i want and even if i stand still and talk to them i can predict what they will do and how and why	02:29
Krey[m]	quite life ruining	02:29
Krey[m]	great for dating though	02:30
LjL	Krey[m], what is the next thing i'll do?	02:30
Krey[m]	LjL: can't do that easily over the web and people freak out too much and ban me from channels	02:31
Krey[m]	and it's difficult to get good info on covid u.u	02:31
LjL	Krey[m], well you did it anyway	02:32
LjL	close enough	02:32
LjL	i was going to kick you	02:32
Krey[m]	to give you example you were annoyed about me using the anger emoji so that to me associates that trigger to specific behavior and since that i just build a database and test what combinations of it does unintentionally	02:32
LjL	but now i won't	02:32
Krey[m]	aaAAaaAAaaAaAAaaaaaAAaaaaA	02:32
Krey[m]	\ bully >.>	02:32
LjL	you're the bully, you're experimenting on me	02:33
Krey[m]	not intentionally!	02:33
Krey[m]	and now that you know that i am manipulating you that will influence your behavior and me taking some time to adapt before being able to do that again so grace period yaaay	02:34
Krey[m]	i used to do that with my dates to tell them that i am maniulating to feel less depressed but then it always just comes back >.>	02:34
Brainstorm	Updates for Netherlands: +2817 cases (now 1.7 million), +5 deaths (now 17866) since 21 hours ago — Sierra Leone: +114 cases (now 4816) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +7003 cases (now 4.6 million), +6 deaths (now 128105) since 21 hours ago — France: +9 deaths (now 110816) since 21 hours ago	02:35
Krey[m]	LjL: If you want your life ruined too then just talk to people see what they do how they behave when they look at and stuff and then integrate noise and watch the reactions.. pretty useful in a business if you care about those things as you can figure out who to trust and with what and for how long	02:36
Krey[m]	and under what circumstances	02:36
LjL	Krey[m], i think i am way too self-focused even when i think i'm focusing on others to do that effectively	02:39
Krey[m]	in which case develop a mental exercise to promote the growth of neurons to increase your processing abilities	02:40
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: U.S. lawmaker wants Biden to take 'unilateral action' on reopening border with Canada → https://is.gd/uPwKnf	02:40
Krey[m]	e.g. starcraft II and playing meepo in DotA 2 is not bad to make you being able to handle multiple things at once	02:41
Krey[m]	i also like to do airsoft to practice my critical and split second decisions	02:41
Krey[m]	*critical thinking	02:42
Krey[m]	bcs really anyone can be a genius it's all about health, diet and mental exercising	02:43
LjL	i play an open source game called 0AD but i am... myself... even at that, somehow i keep playing the same map under the same conditions, and it's soothing in some strange way, but almost certainly not helping my mental abilities, on the contrary	02:50
Krey[m]	I play terraria now to practice my critical thinking, problem solving and split second decisions atm..	02:58
Krey[m]	So `for the worthy` seed and hardcore character meaning that everything is like twice as difficult, i get one shot killed from most of the things and when i die the whole world and progress is removed forcing me in figuring out strategies and new ways to win the game	02:58
pwr22	It's quite normal for people to be predicting the behaviours of others all the time. It's part of the intricate social dance of empathy we do and we even have specific hardware in the mirror networks to do it iirc	02:58
LjL	hrm, maybe we strayed a bit too off topic for nixonix's liking :\ i was happy he'd come back after almost a full year	02:58
pwr22	Maybe you could IM them and ask	02:59
Krey[m]	hmm O.o no idea who nixonix is	02:59
Krey[m]	other then him being in the chat	02:59
Brainstorm	Updates for India: +42851 cases (now 29.9 million), +1142 deaths (now 387195) since 19 hours ago	03:00
LjL	you've talked to them somewhat extensively tonnight...	03:00
Krey[m]	<Krey[m] "other then him being in the chat"> .	03:00
LjL	ah right	03:00
LjL	well he's a lot into the studies and used to discuss them a lot with de-facto last year, and again now	03:01
Krey[m]	you seem to be treating him like someone who knows what he's talking about~	03:01
LjL	sometimes they're both... a bit much for me :P	03:01
Krey[m]	and he smells like my uncle who is a doctor for 50 years	03:01
Krey[m]	hmm i see O.o	03:01
LjL	Krey[m], i don't know his credentials but i can tell someone is at least more willing and able to dissect a study compared to my rough reading of the abstract and that's it	03:01
Krey[m]	i like studies too~ but i usually just make someone to go through them for me... we should make more video presentations about those x.x like realEngineering on youtube	03:02
Krey[m]	with the sources linked in the things and them going over huge studies in few mins	03:02
Krey[m]	so much knowledge x.x	03:02
LjL-Matrix	I like to collect them in my resource page in the topic :P but sometimes I question whether I have any ability to actually select "the ones that matter", as opposed to ending up with just the one that stuck out for me at a given moment, maybe just because I was looking at that moment (aside from obvious posts like vaccine press releases)	03:03
Krey[m]	i prefer to update wiki with things i find useful O.o	03:03
Krey[m]	bcs that way it gets maintenance and review so if the study proves to be wrong then someone is going to update the page	03:04
LjL	Krey[m], i used to do that, but with COVID things get heated and there are discretionary sanctions left and right and i'm not always cool-headed enough. or even if i am, it costs me a lot of energy... as in anxiety and tension	03:05
LjL	several years ago i had a big thing going about the Rorschach test on wikipedia	03:05
LjL	i still like that Scientific American has a passing mention of "an italian editor" in their article about it :P	03:05
Krey[m]	hmm I chosen to date a girl that really made me angry and eventually got to the point where i don't get angry to the unmanagable point O.o	03:06
Krey[m]	and now i even love arguing bcs of it ^0^	03:06
* Krey[m] is annoyed that he missed `-` and type `0` in `^0^` for second time now 💢		03:07
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Three countries said to ask Israel for vaccine doses Palestinians don’t want → https://is.gd/GzXIq5	03:11
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China passes 1 billion mark in Covid-19 vaccine doses administered → https://is.gd/DVqFhY	03:32
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: (news): Covid vaccine: We need answers on autumn booster plan, say NHS leaders → https://is.gd/aYZg6H	03:42
Brainstorm	Updates for United Kingdom: +9324 cases (now 4.6 million), +8 deaths (now 128107) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +485 cases (now 1.4 million) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +2992 cases (now 1.7 million), +6 deaths (now 17867) since 23 hours ago — France: +12 deaths (now 110819) since 23 hours ago	04:39
Brainstorm	Updates for Liberia: +161 cases (now 2995) since a day ago	05:29
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Lack of preparedness is greatest failure of our collective ecosystem: Top US scientist on COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qhwIRR	05:57
Brainstorm	Updates for Belgium: +331 cases (now 1.1 million), +4 deaths (now 25136) since 23 hours ago	06:06
Brainstorm	New from EurekAlert!: COVID-19-related multisystem inflammatory syndrome in adults: rare but possible: In rare cases, adults who have recovered from COVID-19 may develop multisystem inflammatory syndrome, and clinicians should consider this possibility in adults with specific symptoms, as physicians describe in a case published in CMAJ (Canadian [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/qNL6sX	06:28
Brainstorm	New from EurekAlert!: Research suggests mask-wearing can increase struggles with social anxiety: People who struggle with social anxiety might experience increased distress related to mask-wearing during and even after the COVID-19 pandemic. → https://is.gd/ukAeJh	06:49
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 'Dumping ground': Israel blasted for bid to swap expiring Covid-19 vaccines with Palestine → https://is.gd/JFXaNG	06:59
Brainstorm	Updates for India: +43138 cases (now 29.9 million) since 23 hours ago	07:08
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Fight over Covid’s origins renews debate on risks of lab work → https://is.gd/oizdyF	07:10
Brainstorm	Updates for Moscow Oblast, Russia: +1638 cases (now 290542), +13 deaths (now 6342) since 23 hours ago — Mexico City, Mexico: +1402 cases (now 673343), +38 deaths (now 34458) since a day ago — Alagoas, Brazil: +1208 cases (now 209571), +20 deaths (now 5134) since 23 hours ago — Sindh, Pakistan: +1160 cases (now 332254), +27 deaths (now 5341) since a day ago	07:33
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Desperate for covid care, unauthorized immigrants resort to unproven drugs → https://is.gd/5Wwz21	08:02
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Britain turns into test case for Covid endgame → https://is.gd/X2CS3i	08:53
Brainstorm	New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread \| June 21, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/ZUygTZ	09:04
Brainstorm	New from Science-Based Medicine: Ivermectin is the new hydroxychloroquine, take 2: A few months ago, Scott Gavura wrote about how the veterinary deworming drug ivermectin has become the new hydroxychloroquine in that it is being promoted as a highly effective treatment against COVID-19—and by many of the same people who previously promoted [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/b8eeRR	09:14
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Don’t count on needing a Covid booster shot, WHO scientist says → https://is.gd/tHzBhF	09:35
Brainstorm	Updates for India: +67112 cases (now 29.9 million), +1378 deaths (now 387671) since 17 hours ago — Uzbekistan: +427 cases (now 106452) since a day ago	09:37
de-facto	http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Russia;United%20Kingdom;Portugal&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes <-- this is the effect of the Delta-Variant (B.1.617.2)	10:31
Brainstorm	Updates for Mizoram, India: +855 cases (now 17605), +7 deaths (now 83) since 2 days ago	10:33
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China has administered more than 1 billion Covid-19 vaccine doses → https://is.gd/Y5wdXG	11:19
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Surging infections divide UK airlines and gov’t on reopening → https://is.gd/x3emcr	11:50
Brainstorm	New from BMJ: Persistent pulmonary disease after acute covid-19: It has been over a year since the first patients were discharged from UK hospitals following treatment for covid-19. Hospital admission was largely dictated by the requirement for supplementary... → https://is.gd/IeQBI6	12:00
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: In PR attempt, Israel takes Pfizer vaccine shipment earmarked for Palestinians and offers their nearly expired doses, PA rejects deal → https://is.gd/b2N1uw	12:10
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +352 cases (now 3.7 million) since 22 hours ago	12:31
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express (Health): Fashion: Luxury brand showcases crop top, cut-off blazers at Milan Men’s Fashion Week → https://is.gd/6K2y78	12:31
Brainstorm	New from Scientific American: New Coronavirus Variants Are Urgently Being Tracked Around the World: Health care worker uses a pipette to process COVID-19 test samples at the SpiceHealth genome-sequencing laboratory set up at the Indira Gandhi International Airport in New Delhi, India, in January 2021. → https://is.gd/fA47hP	12:52
Brainstorm	Updates for Indonesia: +14536 cases (now 2.0 million), +294 deaths (now 54956) since a day ago	13:09
Brainstorm	New from BMJ: Resisting the “righting reflex” in conversations about covid vaccine hesitancy: Razai and colleagues discuss covid-19 vaccine hesitancy.1 We agree that there is no single solution for individual conversations, but we think that the motivational interviewing approach has... → https://is.gd/26QbRI	13:13
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Il Presidente del Consiglio Draghi incontra il Vicepresidente di Forza Italia Antonio Tajani ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/il-presidente-del-consiglio-draghi-incontra-il-vicepresidente-di-forza-italia-antonio )		13:26
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Il Presidente Draghi interviene al ‘Women political leaders Summit 2021’ ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/il-presidente-draghi-interviene-al-women-political-leaders-summit-2021/17222 )		13:36
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Matt Hancock hopes to scrap isolation for double-jabbed contacts → https://is.gd/nmYCu0	13:54
Brainstorm	Updates for Bangladesh: +4636 cases (now 856304), +78 deaths (now 13626) since 22 hours ago — Nepal: +1584 cases (now 622640), +46 deaths (now 8772) since 23 hours ago	14:36
FSR[m]	https://twitter.com/tburages/status/1406738374203949065	14:39
FSR[m]	13 years old dead after vaxination	14:39
pwr22	A very sad thing to see ☹️	14:54
pwr22	Is it well established that the heart inflammation associated with the vaccine(s) is more than random chance?	14:55
pwr22	de-facto: still no sign of deaths increasing in the UK. I feel that if they are still relatively flat / hospitalisations don't start increasing over the next two weeks then that's and excellent sign of vaccine effectiveness against delta!	15:01
pwr22	Interestingly Russia is seeing deaths go up?	15:01
Brainstorm	New from WHO Euro: Getting married in the pandemic: Organizing a wedding is a mammoth and difficult enough task at the best of times, but what must it be like to be “tying the knot” in the middle of a global pandemic? → https://is.gd/2q0XhK	15:08
de-facto	well UK vaccinated from high risk to low risk, while Russia got a problem with vaccination progressions, hence decoupling incidence from hospitalizations is expected to be more in UK than in RUS i guess	15:14
de-facto	but still the higher the incidence the more out of control it gets, hence the more effort is needed to regain control	15:16
de-facto	meaning early intervention is exponentially cheaper than later interventions (e.g. when enough incidence is accumulated that hospitalizations begin to rise again)	15:17
Brainstorm	New from Virological.org: Latest posts: Preliminary in silico assessment of the specificity of published molecular assays and design of new assays using the available whole genome sequences of 2019-nCoV: Updated to 1,467,158 high coverage COVID-19 WGS from GISAID using BLASTDB version 5. Run Date: 06/15/2021 Table 1. PSET analysis using SARS-CoV-2 as [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/vCu7Zo	15:28
Brainstorm	Updates for Switzerland: +3 deaths (now 10872) since 2 days ago	15:38
Brainstorm	New from The Lancet (Online): [Addendum] Addendum: competing interests and the origins of SARS-CoV-2: In February, 2020, 27 public health experts co-authored a Correspondence in The Lancet (“Statement in support of the scientists, public health professionals, and medical professionals of China combatting COVID-19”),1 supporting health professionals [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/H9xTaV	16:10
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: No scientific evidence of Covid vaccination causing infertility in men, women: Health ministry → https://is.gd/4mFich	16:21
Brainstorm	New from Politico: Who are the winners and losers from France’s local elections?: The regional elections are a snapshot of voter mood as the country emerges from COVID-19 lockdown. So who is up and who is down? → https://is.gd/NXbTdY	16:32
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +306 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago	16:40
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Bolsonaro faces calls to resign as Covid deaths mount in Brazil → https://is.gd/303zMM	16:52
Brainstorm	New from ScienceNews: 50 years ago, UFO sightings in the United States went bust: In 1971, reports of unidentified flying objects were on the decline. Fifty years later, sightings have spiked thanks in part to pandemic lockdowns. → https://is.gd/jNSeEv	17:03
Brainstorm	New from In The Pipeline: Novobiocin Returns? But Not as an Antibiotic.: Here’s some interesting work from Dana-Farber (earlier BioRxiv version here) that may turn into a rare example of repurposing an old drug, if it works out. The team was studying an enzyme called DNA polymerase theta (also known by its corresponding gene name, POLQ), which is one [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8x3sWK	17:13
Brainstorm	New from Politico: Business and competition: UK should seize pandemic ‘opportunity’ to work more flexibly, says review chief → https://is.gd/m9CrYu	17:34
Brainstorm	Updates for Andorra: +22 cases (now 13864) since 2 days ago	17:36
Brainstorm	New from WebMD: 5 Tests You Should Not Order for a Child With Autism: The American Academy of Pediatrics Council on Environmental Health lists 5 things doctors and patients should question in tests for kids with behavioral or developmental disorders. → https://is.gd/G3tMO2	17:55
Brainstorm	Updates for United Kingdom: +11173 cases (now 4.6 million) since 23 hours ago	18:01
Brainstorm	Updates for Iraq: +5235 cases (now 1.3 million), +25 deaths (now 16910) since a day ago — Lebanon: +856 cases (now 543505), +21 deaths (now 7822) since 6 days ago — Canada: +7 deaths (now 26063) since 22 hours ago	19:03
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India vaccinates a record 8.2 Million people in a single day , on the same day as the central government opens up vaccination for all adults for free . India vaccinated the population of Israel and twice the population of New Zealand in a single day. https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/well-done-in → https://is.gd/wjiLHy	19:08
Brainstorm	Updates for Cuba: +1561 cases (now 169365), +11 deaths (now 1170) since a day ago — Myanmar: +595 cases (now 148617), +3 deaths (now 3265) since a day ago — Germany: +337 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago	19:40
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 survivors may suffer from a loss of gray matter and other brain tissue over time, a long-term study suggests. A new study that drew on data gathered by UK Biobank suggests COVID-19 survivors may suffer from a loss of gray matter over time. → https://is.gd/mkqf7O	20:11
darsie	betelgeuse7: fix your connection.	20:13
Brainstorm	New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Italy halts the use of AstraZeneca’s vaccine in those under 60, and other news from around the world. → https://is.gd/nWmRZw	20:21
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israel urges vaccination for all teens, citing Delta variant → https://is.gd/eQxln1	20:32
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: President Rodrigo Duterte threatens to jail people who refuse to be vaccinated against COVID-19 → https://is.gd/X7o7pR	21:03
Brainstorm	Updates for Switzerland: +3 deaths (now 10875) since 5 hours ago	21:07
Brainstorm	Updates for Algeria: +473 cases (now 136294), +10 deaths (now 3641) since 22 hours ago — France: +8 deaths (now 110824) since 18 hours ago — Canada: +3 deaths (now 26064) since 19 hours ago	21:32
Brainstorm	New from WebMD: Help Avoid COVID, Injury as Kids Return to Sports: The American Academy of Pediatrics in updated its guidance on returning to sports and physical activity after the pandemic. → https://is.gd/4OMTpU	21:34
Brainstorm	Updates for Spain: +7209 cases (now 3.8 million), +37 deaths (now 80689) since 3 days ago	22:34
drinkingday	dm: Britain has so far recorded just 34 cases of myocarditis after Pfizer jabs — a similar number to after the AstraZeneca vaccine, suggesting the risk isn't heightened for either of them — and only two after Moderna	22:37
drinkingday	should check if its true. funny brits often dont find those vax side effects that other countries do	22:37
nixonix	also roughly similar ratio of anaphylaxises in finland from mrna vaccines and AZ	22:38
nixonix	around 45 cases from pfizer or other mrna's and 6 from az (which has been used way less here). so theres uncertainty if those from az were caused by something else, but prob not. i wonder whats in az that could cause those too	22:40
Brainstorm	New from CIDRAP: US COVID-19 cases continue to fall—as do vaccinations: Stephanie Soucheray \| News Reporter \| CIDRAP News Jun 21, 2021 Two CDC studies today spotlight lower COVID-19 vaccination rates in young adults compared with older Americans. → https://is.gd/iChR5U	22:46
nixonix	damn these product names - and when a vax gets bad rep, they just change the name (like az)	22:49
nixonix	a finnish dude in china said, he got very sick from the 1st dose of chinese "verocell" vaccine. but then reported that he felt nothing the next day from the 2nd dose. didnt report anything later though, i wonder what happened...	22:50
nixonix	BBIBP-CorV, also known as the Sinopharm COVID-19 vaccine,[1] is one of two inactivated virus COVID-19 vaccines developed by Sinopharm's Beijing Institute of Biological Products	22:50
nixonix	BBIBP-CorV shares similar technology with CoronaVac and Covaxin, other inactivated virus vaccines for COVID-19.[3] Its product name is SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine (Vero Cell),[4][5][6] not to be confused with the similar product name of CoronaVac.	22:50
nixonix	also i read vietnam has got "Vero-Cell" vaccine, and i think also nepal got	22:51
nixonix	.title https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/hundreds-of-indonesian-doctors-contract-covid-19-despite-vaccination-dozens	22:52
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.straitstimes.com: Hundreds of Indonesian healthcare workers contract Covid-19 despite vaccination, dozens hospitalised, SE Asia News & Top Stories - The Straits Times	22:52
nixonix	sinovac. which isnt sinopharm, i think	22:52
nixonix	scmp still works from hk? under that alibaba dude?	22:53
nixonix	.title https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3137955/coronavirus-those-biontech-jabs-have-stronger	22:53
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.scmp.com: Coronavirus: Hong Kong study finds ‘substantial’ antibody-level difference between BioNTech, Sinovac jab recipients \| South China Morning Post	22:53
nixonix	theres your whole virus vaccines. they suck and theyre dangerous. some of those antivaxers have a narrative, that they should be used instead of "untested experimental mrna tech which isnt vaccine"	22:56
nixonix	they are repeating the chinese or russian narrative, prob lots of it originated from them	22:57
nixonix	those "12 accounts", where most of that comes, or was it only about vaccine or something else too, how was it again...	22:58
nixonix	its good to be critical, but if you are, you need to do your own "research" from reliable sources. if you dont, better not be critical but just take it as the majority of experts say. for science anyway	23:02
nixonix	i wonder if chinese have enough spies to read all the western social media, forums, chats ... and this irc channel	23:05
Brainstorm	New from CIDRAP: WHO notes progress on African COVID-19 vaccine production hub: Lisa Schnirring \| News Editor \| CIDRAP News Jun 21, 2021 The production hub is designed to boost vaccine supplies in the region for current and future outbreaks. → https://is.gd/fqXiDs	23:07
nixonix	not like just some AI going through everything, and alert a spy to read if theres something special, but everything. a human spy. so there would be some chinese spy reading this right now, thinking that nixonix dude has some good information, but hard to say when he is serious and when he is not	23:10
nixonix	Experts believe a major factor is the number of cases that were introduced into the UK in a short space of time, because of the volume of travel. Public Health England figures show the variant was introduced at least 500 times by travellers.	23:20
nixonix	Dr Jeffrey Barrett, from the Sanger Institute, which analyses the genetic material from Covid-test swabs to work out which mutations they contain, said he believed the true number was likely to be more than 1,000.	23:20
nixonix	B.1.617.2 variant, was first identified in Colorado in late April. By the first week of this month — a period of about six weeks — it had grown to account for an estimated 40% of all new infections in Colorado	23:26
nixonix	it took eight weeks for the Alpha variant — also known as the B.1.1.7 or United Kingdom variant — to reach 40% of the state’s total cases. As of early June, that variant made up an estimated 48% of total cases in Colorado, but its share is falling as Delta’s rises.	23:27
nixonix	Delta variant, first identified in India, represented over 60% of cases in the Lisbon area though still less than 15% in the northern half of Portugal	23:33
nixonix	financial times seems to be way off with their numbers...	23:34
Brainstorm	Updates for Kuwait: +1935 cases (now 340967), +7 deaths (now 1877) since a day ago — Canada: +6 deaths (now 26067) since 22 hours ago	23:36
nixonix	Switzerland is well prepared for the Delta variant of Covid-19 and there is no reason for particular concern at the moment, says Christoph Berger, head of the Federal Commission for Vaccinations	23:40
nixonix	Berger also stressed that the situation was different in Switzerland to the UK, for example, where the Delta strain of the virus has delayed plans to relax restrictions. The British authorities vaccinated many people as quickly as possible with one dose, which was probably the right thing to do at the time, he said, but today you need protection	23:40
nixonix	with two injections	23:40
nixonix	yeah, i wasnt sure if our long intervals was a good idea or not. but then first when SA variants share increased, i thought they should go to 3-4 week interval and start redosing the old people before giving younger their 1st	23:41
nixonix	they didnt. then came the delta variant. they still refuse do reschedule it	23:41
nixonix	even brits where they copied the model from, have shortened the interval for over 50 yo, was it. and the same with norwegians, not sure aboot canada	23:42
nixonix	finnish medical authorities are still angry they werent let to use their planned herd immunity by spreading the pestilence. so this is their revenge	23:44
nixonix	Berger told the paper that the Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines used in Switzerland have also proven to be much more effective against the new variant than other vaccines, such as the AstraZeneca	23:44
nixonix	that wasnt very nice thing to say about az...	23:45
LjL	but i suspect it will prove true ;(	23:49
LjL	why do you discount AI, nixonix? i think when it comes to large-scale spying, what 1984 didn't get right is that it assumed they could only monitor citizens for short periods of time, and it would work because they would be spied on at random so they would never know when they were being spied on. but with advanced enough AI, you don't need n guards to spy on n subjects all the time. you need an AI that filters things to narrow enough levels that a much smaller	23:51
LjL	number of humans can sift through them. i think this is the one big creepy thing about the actual modern dystopia.	23:51
LjL	but to clarify: i don't think the spying AI is in our vaccines' chips :P	23:51

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