| nixonix | then it could also be damaged rna, or just damaged product as a result of pushing ribosomes too hard. but because theres no spike in plasma, it would need to be in cells, causing that adverse immune reaction | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nixonix | and it would also need larger than normal amounts of the vaccine to go to vessels, probably | 00:01 |
| de-facto | well as you said, they detected no spike with their method, but that does not mean it can be guaranteed that its not there (e.g. if already bound by antibodies) | 00:03 |
| nixonix | this prob has been here (about az problem, which seems to be smaller in jnj's vaccine): | 00:03 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.ft.com/content/f76eb802-ec05-4461-9956-b250115d0577 | 00:03 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.ft.com: Scientists claim to have solved Covid vaccine blood-clot puzzle | Financial Times | 00:03 |
| nixonix | idk, but even if it is, it would be less dangerous with abs preventing the binding to ace2 | 00:04 |
| nixonix | if it would be cell mediated, that is | 00:04 |
| nixonix | but even if it isnt but immune cells recognizing spikes from plasma causing some cytokine burst | 00:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Widespread SARS-CoV-2 mutation escapes vaccine- and infection-induced CD8 T-cell responses: spike mutation – P272L – has so far arisen in five different SARS-CoV-2 lineages, including the B.1.177 lineage that was associated with a second pandemic wave in Europe → https://is.gd/ASgn2L | 00:09 |
| de-facto | would antibodies clamping onto something not even alarm more immune reaction by their other end? like tagging "here is something todo"? | 00:10 |
| nixonix | fcr-mediated phagocytosis use them (abs in target). bbl | 00:13 |
| Krey[m] | O.O | 00:15 |
| Krey[m] | there is mDNA development | 00:15 |
| Krey[m] | my dream of having wings is all coming together | 00:15 |
| nixonix | its ready already. madonna's album | 00:26 |
| Krey[m] | and they are using extacy for that | 00:26 |
| Krey[m] | title. https://youtu.be/WJm7I0t-Wzo | 00:26 |
| * Krey[m] smash | 00:26 | |
| Krey[m] | .title https://youtu.be/WJm7I0t-Wzo | 00:26 |
| Brainstorm | Krey[m]: From youtu.be: Prima di continuare su YouTube | 00:26 |
| Krey[m] | i tried | 00:26 |
| nixonix | (there is mtdna, tho) | 00:26 |
| Krey[m] | ah MDMA | 00:27 |
| Krey[m] | u.u | 00:27 |
| Krey[m] | i can't readddd | 00:27 |
| Krey[m] | <nixonix "its ready already. madonna's alb"> what | 00:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Tunisia: +10060 cases (now 420103), +214 deaths (now 14959) since 23 hours ago | 00:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID outbreak at China's Yantian port threatens global trade → https://is.gd/bljdS2 | 01:11 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/health/covid-vaccine-teens-consent.html | 01:53 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nytimes.com: As Parents Forbid Covid Shots, Defiant Teenagers Seek Ways to Get Them - The New York Times | 01:53 |
| nixonix | btw that cdc chart of risks, whatever the short term risk, like for the next 120 days is, eventually almost all that are not vaccinated will get it (and maybe most of those that are vaccinated too, but with reduced symptoms) | 01:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Trevor Bedford: @trvrb: R to @trvrb: Although I don't have a huge amount of faith in this specific 11% estimate, at the moment, just based on what's happening in the UK, I would expect there to be a US wave driven by Delta (figure showing Rt in UK from https://epiforecasts.io/covid/posts/national/united-kingdom/). 16/16 → https://is.gd/GXIUSk | 02:02 |
| nixonix | that bedfords twitter thread omits differences in ppls behaviour, restrictions, summer influencing etc etc | 02:08 |
| nixonix | but i guess it was just trying to see, what effect the spreading of 617.2 would have in usa | 02:09 |
| nixonix | The Dutch government says it is extending the coronavirus vaccination program to cover children ages 12 to 17 to help deal with the delta variant | 02:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid transmission 'common' in pet cats and dogs: Pet owners with Covid could infect about 20% of cats and dogs with the virus, although most symptoms are mild. → https://is.gd/plnI0Y | 02:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Vietnam: +356 cases (now 16863), +1 deaths (now 81) since 19 hours ago — Netherlands: +838 cases (now 1.7 million), +3 deaths (now 17887) since 21 hours ago — France: +18 deaths (now 111128) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +317 cases (now 1.4 million) since 21 hours ago | 02:33 |
| nixonix | usa: "half of unvaccinated adults polled saying that the number of cases is now so low there is no need for more people to be vaccinated | 02:34 |
| LjL | circular reasoning much? | 02:37 |
| tsundere | i missed this. amost all unvaccinated wil get infeted in 120d? i must be misreading that. wouldn't htat be worse thn everythyning so far? ---- 16:54 <nixonix> btw that cdc chart of risks, whatever the short term risk, like for the next 120 days is, eventually almost all that are not vaccinated will get it (and maybe most of those that are vaccinated too, but with reduced symptoms) | 03:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ghana: +272 cases (now 95914), +1 deaths (now 796) since a day ago | 03:36 |
| LjL | tsundere, i think he meant 120 days as the short-term risk, then in the long term eventually all unvaccinated will get it | 03:37 |
| nixonix | yep | 03:37 |
| de-facto | in a fully aware and vaccinated population the most reproductive and fittest strains will be selected, being able to replicate under such difficult conditions, how will those replicate in immunologic naive hosts? | 03:50 |
| de-facto | if the fitness advantage enables vaccine breakthrough (causing mild infections), that could be due to 1) more efficient replication (so even if most get inactivated the few that dont are responsible for reproduction) and 2) better evasive capabilities (being less affected by current version of antibodies and immunity than its ancestors) | 03:53 |
| de-facto | 1) definitely will cause a much more aggressive strain in immuno-naive contaminated | 03:53 |
| de-facto | 2) i am not sure, possibly "just" as bad as its ancestors in immuno-naive (non-vaccinated)? | 03:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Variant surge at border forces Bangladesh into new lockdown → https://is.gd/1uRcBG | 03:55 |
| de-facto | i think we are seeing a mix of both happening right now | 03:55 |
| de-facto | but being not vaccinated will get more dangerous with time i bet | 03:56 |
| LjL | de-facto, it could also be 3) less dangerous, because the evading tricks will be at the detriment of regular virulence | 03:56 |
| de-facto | yes true, actually i think i read that several times | 03:57 |
| de-facto | so maybe that is why we see a mix, some mutations making it more fit (as in more efficiently replicating on cellular level) enabling the possibility for evasive mutations that may come with the cost of some fitness disadvantage | 03:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malawi: +229 cases (now 36126), +2 deaths (now 1196) since a day ago | 04:01 |
| de-facto | we definitely see 1) happening with the R0(B.1) < R0(B.1.1.7) < R0(B.1.617.2) < .... | 04:01 |
| LjL | de-facto, i' not sure we're seeing "intentional" vaccine evasion happening at all, though. with B.1.315, it's very evasive, but unless it was actually due to the AZ trials (like my slightly conspiratory theory went), why would the virus even try to evade the vaccine in a population where no one's vaccinated? | 04:02 |
| LjL | and the Indian variant also arose in a largely unvaccinated population | 04:02 |
| de-facto | we also see 2) happening with the neutralization capabilities of serum decreasing, e.g. B.1.351 needing 10-fold of the antibodies than e.g. B.1 | 04:02 |
| de-facto | LjL, but with seroprevalence | 04:03 |
| de-facto | those evasive strains began to emerge at the time where we got some part of the population already recovered from natural infection, also such evasive mutations get selected on longterm infections | 04:04 |
| de-facto | the convergent evolution of such evasive mutations (reoccurring several times independently) means that the human immune system reacts with the same structures (e.g. antibodies) and ways when being stimulated with the same epitopes on the antigenic surfaces | 04:06 |
| de-facto | of course more fit variants would get positively selected (the upper boundary) but if acquiring the evasive capabilities comes for a fitness price it would mean that they always must be accompanied by fitness advantageous mutations, hence putting a lower boundary on fitness for successful mutants | 04:10 |
| de-facto | and we might already see that: Beta may have good evasive capabilities, but it seems it just cant compete with Delta on a fitness level, hence Beta is suppressed by the level of containment that Delta requires for things not to get out of control | 04:11 |
| LjL | yes | 04:12 |
| de-facto | and especially those lower boundary for fitness will introduce mutations that lead to much more fit (hence dangerous for unvaccinated) variants, it easily could drop the evasive mutation if its not an advantage in immuno-naive environments | 04:15 |
| de-facto | and also that we can see already, Delta leading to almost twice as many hospitalizations for non-vaccinated than Alpha (i think it was 1.85 fold if i remember correctly) | 04:16 |
| de-facto | that is per infection | 04:16 |
| Krey[m] | Campbell claiming to have evidence on the fatal J&J and Pfyzer myocarditis and thrombosis by inedvertent intravascular administration | 04:17 |
| Krey[m] | https://youtu.be/e3lx6Scwfhg | 04:17 |
| Krey[m] | Myocarditis and thrombosis respectfully* | 04:19 |
| Krey[m] | ... weird word.. meaning there is no known evidence for myocarditis on J&J afaik | 04:19 |
| de-facto | Krey[m], ok assuming he is onto something, how would that explain that its much more often happening after 2nd shot (but not so often 1st), in young (but not old) men (but not women)? | 04:20 |
| Krey[m] | it's very rare so i assume that it's related to the intravescular administration on 2nd shot and based on the autopsy i read about the fatal 13yo | 04:21 |
| Krey[m] | who seem to have a buildup on liquid on his heart caused by inflammation which seems to be the invidual vaccine particles and white cell response on them | 04:21 |
| Krey[m] | causing heart failure? | 04:21 |
| Krey[m] | so basically puss in the heart to cause heart failure? | 04:22 |
| de-facto | oh oh i was talking about myocarditis not thrombocytopenia | 04:22 |
| Krey[m] | me too? thus the heart related | 04:22 |
| de-facto | for thrombocytopenia its young women being biased | 04:22 |
| Krey[m] | assuming it causing the inflammation | 04:22 |
| Krey[m] | i read for J&J it being +-40yo women | 04:22 |
| Krey[m] | all before menopause | 04:23 |
| Krey[m] | and it being related to their menstran cycle? | 04:23 |
| Krey[m] | *menstral | 04:23 |
| Krey[m] | basically intravescular administration -> making the vaccine to roam around the body instead of it being only in the arm located in the muscle and it causing thrombosis due to the blood thining ? | 04:24 |
| Krey[m] | *due to the menses-induced blood thining? | 04:24 |
| Krey[m] | can't say for sure though the data are kinda weird but that's what seems to be happening? | 04:24 |
| Krey[m] | and when the vaccine is in the blood instead of the muscle it's causing white cells to attack it -> Creating puss -> giving heart more work to do -> arithmya -> liquid in heart -> heart failure | 04:26 |
| Krey[m] | as far as i was explained it | 04:26 |
| de-facto | i think that selection there is a property of the patients, hence probably what differentiates the immune system and reaction of those specific groups from their complement in a population | 04:27 |
| Krey[m] | i am leaning towards the autoimmunity by the intravescular administration | 04:28 |
| Krey[m] | where campbell seems to describe paletets attacking the vaccine when it's intravescular ? | 04:29 |
| Krey[m] | but i fail to see the link for the liquid in the heart with that thus why i suspect white cells when the vaccine gets caught in the heart causing the myocarditis/pericarditis | 04:30 |
| Krey[m] | also the campbell's research descibe the AZ vaccine boing in spleen when administred intravescularely | 04:31 |
| Krey[m] | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.29.450356v1.abstract?%3Fcollection= | 04:31 |
| Brainstorm | Krey[m]: From www.biorxiv.org: Thrombocytopenia and splenic platelet directed immune responses after intravenous ChAdOx1 nCov-19 administration | bioRxiv | 04:31 |
| de-facto | Campbell is talking about Thrombocytopenia though | 04:31 |
| Krey[m] | i know, but i also suspect the pfyzer-related fatalities to be relevant to the intravescular administration and this is my hypothesis for the myo/pericarditis | 04:32 |
| Krey[m] | based on the research provided since it seems to prove beyond reasonable doubt that intravescular administration of the vaccine will cause issues for the reasons explained? | 04:33 |
| de-facto | well i am not opposed to that, but somehow the bias of those groups would have to be explained | 04:33 |
| Krey[m] | elaborate bias? | 04:34 |
| de-facto | thrombocytopenia = young woman, myocarditis = young men 2nd dose are overexposed compared to their complement in the population | 04:35 |
| de-facto | that is it that selects those groups for having a bigger likelihood for those (very rare) conditions to occur in comparsion to the others? | 04:35 |
| de-facto | *what is it that selects ... | 04:36 |
| de-facto | maybe they are more likely to have those conditions even without any vaccinations and their difference is only "amplified" by the vaccinations? | 04:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Namibia: +3268 cases (now 89917), +76 deaths (now 1521) since 2 days ago — Cyprus: +429 cases (now 75860) since a day ago | 04:38 |
| Krey[m] | as far as i understood the thrombosis seems to be also linked to men.. women just seems to have higher likelyhood for fatality in these? | 04:38 |
| Krey[m] | and vise versa? women having myocarditis but less likely to be fatal? | 04:39 |
| de-facto | but in any case i agree, aspiration should be mandatory, just because 1) it does NOT hurt (anything else is a lie) 2) it may potentially prevent some very rare problems 3) it literally takes a few additional seconds 4) any medical doc knows how to do that anyhow | 04:39 |
| de-facto | Krey[m], i think those biases are about the occurrence of that syndrome, not about its outcome (that would have to be on a separate metric) | 04:41 |
| Krey[m] | possible | 04:41 |
| de-facto | i asked for aspiration when i got my 1st shot, the MD said its not recommended (i looked it up, she was correct), but i insisted she do it anyhow and it did NOT hurt a tiny bit | 04:43 |
| de-facto | so in that regard i *disagree* with STIKO (that is recommending to not do aspiration for a "stress free" vaccination) | 04:44 |
| de-facto | i would even disagree if it hurts a lot (which is not the case at all) | 04:44 |
| Krey[m] | i would be for aspiration even if it hurt the side effects are more of a concern to me | 04:46 |
| de-facto | exactly, having the MD aspirate would mean a much less stressful vaccination for me, i cant tell you how relieved i was when she directly agreed to do it without further discussions | 04:47 |
| Krey[m] | ye i was concerned about that too that i made my doc to write a short letter that i can use in case they didn't want to do it bcs "it's not recommended blah blah" | 04:50 |
| Krey[m] | i love how campbell is so pissed about people not listening to him that he puts out gray's anatomy book | 04:57 |
| de-facto | Krey[m], you could try to find out at which countries that aspiration is recommended and in which its not recommended and try to correlate with case reports | 04:57 |
| Krey[m] | i don't have a good data on that.. last time i checked pretty much everyone recommends agains aspiration bcs of nhs.uk citing "there are no large blood vessels" in that area | 04:58 |
| Krey[m] | according to campbell and my own research prior to that | 04:58 |
| Krey[m] | so i guess everyone does it without that aspiration for that reason and people just repeat that without thinking? | 04:59 |
| de-facto | it would have to be the same vaccines yeah | 04:59 |
| Krey[m] | i would think that it's related to all vaccines as the mechanism is that you don't want the vaccine to travel around the body no? | 05:00 |
| LjL | de-facto, like everyone, you've got your biased. "if it hurt a lot", then aspiration would mean that many people wouldn't come back for the second dose, which would cause many more deaths than those prevented by aspiration. | 05:01 |
| LjL | biases* | 05:01 |
| de-facto | well yeah if that was the case ( i am pretty sure its not ), so let me ask another question: assuming aspiration could prevent thrombocytopenia (if that theory would be correct), how many cases of vaccine hesistancy or decline could have prevented by that then? | 05:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Comoros: +24 cases (now 3936) since 8 days ago | 05:03 |
| de-facto | we dont know for sure, but since aspiration comes at no cost it should be mandatory if there is even the slightest possibility it could prevent any unwanted side effects | 05:04 |
| * Krey[m] uploaded an image: (372KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/MXPNCSsBOAcBpaaxsrBIIATx/image.png > | 05:04 | |
| Krey[m] | xD | 05:04 |
| de-facto | yeah Campbell is actually really pissed in that video, i think he holds back | 05:04 |
| de-facto | i was expecting the aspiration to hurt (from the stiko recommendation) and i was surprised it did not hurt a tiny bit at all, honestly zero | 05:06 |
| de-facto | have also asked other people and none said it would hurt | 05:06 |
| de-facto | i think this is a myth | 05:06 |
| LjL | anyway we don't even know if blood vessels involvement (the thing that could be prevented by aspiration) is actually what causes thrombosis, it's just a hypothesis | 05:07 |
| Krey[m] | I don't know why are people so concerned about pain when administrating a syringe.. when someone asks me to administrate it i just jab em and tell em don't be a pussy~ ... probably why i am not a doctor yet u.u | 05:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Trevor Bedford: @trvrb: R to @trvrb: Follow up #2: This supports the expectation that we'll see Delta circulation influenced by degree of regional vaccine coverage. → https://is.gd/RvBCXw | 05:08 |
| LjL | yeah well if a doctor told me "don't be a pussy" i'd say thank you for nothing, leave, and go to another doctor, so there's that | 05:09 |
| Krey[m] | don't hurt people don't curse at them >.> so many rules~ | 05:09 |
| LjL | if those are difficult rules for you to follow as a potential doctor, maybe you should consider a career in something else, like IT, where you can curse your servers all day | 05:10 |
| Krey[m] | i want to curse at people bcs in IT the servers curse at me all the time | 05:11 |
| Krey[m] | but yea would agree that i could be more emphatic u.u | 05:11 |
| LjL | empathetic | 05:11 |
| Krey[m] | close enough~ | 05:12 |
| Krey[m] | aldo you should see senior czech doctors o.o absolute psychos~ | 05:14 |
| LjL | そうですか〜 | 05:14 |
| Krey[m] | ye i remember choking on a meat for like 4 hours in a hospital as a kid and senior doctor came, told me to stop being a hypochondric gave me a perscription on some drug to make me numb and left while i was sufficating in front of him x.x | 05:16 |
| Krey[m] | then nurse came, measured my oxygen saturation on 75% and everyone full panic xD | 05:16 |
| LjL | -.- | 05:17 |
| LjL | that explains the brain damage | 05:17 |
| Krey[m] | heyy u.u | 05:17 |
| LjL | well 75% is brain damage territory! | 05:18 |
| Krey[m] | ikr o.o | 05:18 |
| tsundere | aspiration? intravescular? what do those mean? not wanting vaccine everywhere? doesn't blood circulate everywhere within 1 minute? except perhaps the different circulatory heart and lung thing? | 05:18 |
| Krey[m] | https://freespeech.firedragonstudios.com/web/statuses/106503062961119583 explained here in simple terms | 05:18 |
| Krey[m] | .. | 05:18 |
| LjL | tsundere, an intramuscular injection doesn't get into blood at all (if performed properly), it get into the muscle | 05:18 |
| Krey[m] | well that may not be a great source | 05:19 |
| tsundere | same as im then? | 05:19 |
| Krey[m] | tsundere: Aspiration = jab some.. wait i have a video | 05:19 |
| Krey[m] | waaitt | 05:19 |
| tsundere | can't do videos | 05:19 |
| Krey[m] | dammit | 05:19 |
| Krey[m] | and he explains that so well | 05:19 |
| tsundere | well go ahead | 05:19 |
| Krey[m] | aspiration = jab someone, try to draw -> if there is no blood then administrate the vaccine bcs you are in a muscle | 05:19 |
| Krey[m] | intravascular = in blood vessel | 05:19 |
| LjL | tsundere, aspiration is to make sure you *aren't* jabbing in a blood vessel | 05:20 |
| LjL | if blood shows up in the syringe, than whoops, stop and try again | 05:20 |
| tsundere | ah | 05:20 |
| tsundere | vascular equals vescular? | 05:20 |
| Krey[m] | where we were arguing that the lack of aspiration and subsequent administration in a blood vessel causes rare side effects like myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and thrombosis (blood cloths) citing https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.29.450356v1.abstract?%3Fcollection= and info from https://youtu.be/e3lx6Scwfhg | 05:20 |
| Krey[m] | <tsundere "vascular equals vescular?"> ... ehhh | 05:21 |
| * Krey[m] is confused if it's vescular or vascular due to it being different in czech lang and him having dislexia help | 05:21 | |
| tsundere | vascular is a common word. but i just searched vescular and there was stuff. | 05:22 |
| Krey[m] | vascular right as vescular is related to `Of or relating to vesicles.` based on duckduckgo | 05:22 |
| tsundere | at first i thought it was a misspelling | 05:22 |
| Krey[m] | x.x | 05:22 |
| tsundere | that sholud be vesicular though | 05:22 |
| Krey[m] | i don't do mistakes | 05:22 |
| Krey[m] | 🔪 | 05:22 |
| tsundere | and vewsicles are unrelated | 05:22 |
| Krey[m] | until i do | 05:22 |
| * Krey[m] is confident it being vascular | 05:23 | |
| tsundere | ok | 05:23 |
| * Krey[m] woudn't bet on it bcs he's not a doctor yet and sucks in english | 05:23 | |
| tsundere | startpage randomly decides to do captcha in a text browser... | 05:23 |
| Krey[m] | tsundere: in the aspiration imagine having a syringe full of clear liquid.. if you do the aspiration you will there being a blood in the syringe which indicates it being in the blood vessel | 05:24 |
| tsundere | "Intravesical therapy is a treatment that is put directly into the bladder (through a catheter)" | 05:24 |
| tsundere | i get it | 05:24 |
| tsundere | (that part) | 05:24 |
| Krey[m] | https://youtu.be/e3lx6Scwfhg?t=613 demostration in case you get to watch it somehow | 05:25 |
| tsundere | so... the interstitial fluid figures out the immunity thing and then... doesn't travel to rest of body? as quickly? or so? | 05:25 |
| Krey[m] | ain't qualified to answer that | 05:26 |
| tsundere | anyway i know im is used commonly i just don't get what it does in this case | 05:26 |
| Krey[m] | as far as i know the idea is that if you administrate in the muscle is stays in the muscle for your immune system to fix it while creating immunoglobin (anti-bodies) | 05:27 |
| Krey[m] | If you administrate it in a blood vessel it's very likely for it to travel around the body and stay in e.g. heart causing the assumed heart failure in the recent 13yo fatality based on my hypothesis | 05:27 |
| Krey[m] | consider reading the linked research for more info and note that it hasn't been peer-reviewed yet | 05:28 |
| tsundere | well i guess it goes to lymph then armpit nodes. but in that case i don't really get the difference from subq. but another question about menses. why would that thin blood? wouldn't it just decrease blood volume? | 05:30 |
| tsundere | (although subq is usually different part of body of course) | 05:31 |
| Krey[m] | in menses i read that in severe cases it can reduce the amount of red blood cells in the human causing blood thinning | 05:31 |
| tsundere | ok | 05:31 |
| Krey[m] | and being in covid-19 pandemic i have a research article on covid-19 affecting menstrual cycle | 05:31 |
| tsundere | it would be good to know if low blood volume is not thinning | 05:31 |
| Krey[m] | so the worst case scenario with the 4(?) fatalities after J&J that resulted in J&J being paused it seems that it was asymptomatic covid-19 survivors that got the vaccine intravescularely during menses? but we don't have data on that | 05:32 |
| tsundere | sounds like clue | 05:32 |
| tsundere | also sounds like really rare | 05:32 |
| tsundere | why would they pause after that/ or is this a trial not general distribution? | 05:33 |
| Krey[m] | the thrombosis that the women had was very rare and the event itself was very rate like 1 out of 1 000 000 cases | 05:33 |
| * Krey[m] doesn't remember the name | 05:33 | |
| Krey[m] | tsundere: it was criticized that they shoudn't pause it and US seems to be claiming that they did that to ensure confidence in the vaccines by showing that the system works that way | 05:34 |
| tsundere | ...in only this particular case presumably? | 05:35 |
| tsundere | i mean people get vaccine injured all the time with various rare things i assume | 05:35 |
| Krey[m] | people are expected to get ill after vaccine bcs that's how those vaccines work -> you get infected with messenger RNA that triggers immune system response to generate an immunoglobin that is effective agains SARS-CoV-2 to prevent covid-19 infection | 05:36 |
| Krey[m] | but we care about avoiding death and severe effects leading to hospitalization | 05:37 |
| Krey[m] | so after the vaccine the best case scenario is no symptoms or mild symptoms | 05:37 |
| tsundere | no i mean bad stuff | 05:38 |
| tsundere | chronic diseases and death | 05:38 |
| Krey[m] | chronic disease would fall under severe symptoms in my mind | 05:38 |
| Krey[m] | and i've mentioned death | 05:38 |
| Krey[m] | which is what we are trying to avoid with the vaccine and how we want to achieve herd immunity | 05:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Mexico’s Covid-19 death toll could be 60% higher than official count → https://is.gd/OfTKDg | 05:39 |
| tsundere | not to mention things like the reaction those who hae aids get when they do not increas their antiretrovirals | 05:39 |
| Krey[m] | found it: it was Thrombocytopenia allegedly | 05:40 |
| Krey[m] | > Thrombocytopenia is a condition characterized by abnormally low levels of platelets, also known as thrombocytes, in the blood.[2] It is the most common coagulation disorder among intensive care patients and is seen in 20% of medical patients and a third of surgical patients.[3] -- wikipedia | 05:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Thailand: +5533 cases (now 264834), +57 deaths (now 2080) since a day ago — Togo: +36 cases (now 13917) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +24269 cases (now 4.8 million), +17 deaths (now 128269) since 22 hours ago — France: +10 deaths (now 111134) since 22 hours ago | 05:40 |
| Krey[m] | tsundere: i am not aware of any reaction with covid-19 and covid-19 vaccines with aids | 05:42 |
| Krey[m] | dr. Sona Peckova claims that inviduals with a virus that came in contact with SARS-CoV-2 are less likely to be infected, because the virus (such as aids) blocks the ACE2 receptors for SARS-CoV-2 to replicate in the body | 05:42 |
| Krey[m] | but it's just a claim that i wasn't able to verify | 05:43 |
| Krey[m] | (Sona Peckova is/was a leading viral researcher in czechia) | 05:44 |
| Krey[m] | basically the fauci of czechia | 05:44 |
| LjL | uh | 05:45 |
| Krey[m] | aaaa i mangled her name https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/So%C5%88a_Pekov%C3%A1 | 05:45 |
| Krey[m] | pekova | 05:45 |
| LjL | that's if the virus in question uses ACE2 | 05:45 |
| Krey[m] | x.x | 05:45 |
| LjL | it may use other things | 05:45 |
| Krey[m] | LjL: WHAT! did i messed up somewhere | 05:45 |
| LjL | i'm just saying another virus may not necessarily have anything to do with ACE2 receptors | 05:45 |
| Krey[m] | LjL: i also though that but she seems to indicate that if the invidual is infected with the virus it's impossible to get a second virus | 05:46 |
| LjL | but that's nonsense | 05:46 |
| LjL | people have multiple viruses all the time | 05:46 |
| LjL | most people on earth have HSV, EBV and HPV at minimum | 05:46 |
| LjL | and that's just off the op of my non-doctor head | 05:46 |
| LjL | and among the ones that are known | 05:46 |
| * Krey[m] goes to find the inverview | 05:47 | |
| LjL | eh leave it, i can't watch an interview now at 6am | 05:47 |
| LjL | i should be sleeping | 05:47 |
| Krey[m] | but it's in czech and has subtitles! | 05:47 |
| Krey[m] | why woudn't you | 05:47 |
| Krey[m] | and she was among the first to claim lab leak in Q1 2020 and found the evidence of it in czechia | 05:48 |
| Krey[m] | (and europe) | 05:48 |
| Krey[m] | .. partially | 05:48 |
| Krey[m] | https://youtu.be/qmL7okhbVzU?t=953 | 05:48 |
| Krey[m] | claiming proteins? | 05:48 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "i should be sleeping"> pff fineee~ | 05:49 |
| Krey[m] | https://youtu.be/qmL7okhbVzU?t=997 mainly this | 05:49 |
| LjL | she's making some very curious analogies that i can't really map to what she actually means about the virus | 05:53 |
| LjL | and the whole thing is ultimately about how the mutations are artificial, not "other viruses" | 05:53 |
| Krey[m] | x.x | 05:53 |
| LjL | Fauci would yell at this person | 05:53 |
| Krey[m] | ye people yelled at her during the whole pandemic for being "antivaxer that spreads conspiracy theories about it being from the lab" | 05:54 |
| Krey[m] | now they apologise to her mostly O.o | 05:54 |
| Krey[m] | ... | 05:54 |
| Krey[m] | aaa i linked wrong thing | 05:54 |
| tsundere | this --- 20:46 <LjL> people have multiple viruses all the time | 05:57 |
| tsundere | ok i can't find it but if you are infected with hiv, there is a syndrome you can get with vaccines (maybe any vaccine) and you should increase youyr antiretrovirals to prevent it. it has an initialism and it is not controversial. | 05:59 |
| tsundere | it's some kind of inflammatory thing or other | 05:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Covid-19 Pandemic surges again in many parts of the world, fueled by variants → https://is.gd/V5dwht | 06:00 |
| Krey[m] | https://youtu.be/o5J9xjvJPjE?t=545 | 06:00 |
| Krey[m] | found it! | 06:01 |
| Krey[m] | no subtitles u.u | 06:01 |
| Krey[m] | Mentiones super infection, if one virus of same group infects the cell then he closes the door to that cell and says: ok i am living here everyone out that is super infection every other coronavirus is unable to use that cell | 06:02 |
| Krey[m] | rough translate | 06:02 |
| Krey[m] | x.x | 06:02 |
| Krey[m] | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superinfection O.o | 06:03 |
| Krey[m] | > A superinfection is a second infection superimposed on an earlier one, especially by a different microbial agent of exogenous or endogenous origin, that is resistant to the treatment being used against the first infection. | 06:03 |
| LjL | Krey[m], *of the same group* | 06:07 |
| LjL | meaning something like HIV would have nothing to do with it | 06:07 |
| LjL | by the way, AZ tested their vaccine on HIV+ people in South Africa as well | 06:07 |
| LjL | the main results were given for HIV- people | 06:08 |
| LjL | but you can look at the paper for details on HIV+ | 06:08 |
| LjL | here by "same group" is meant coronaviruses at minimum, perhaps SARS-type coronaviruses in particular | 06:08 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "Krey, *of the same group*"> ah right x.x | 06:10 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "but you can look at the paper fo"> what peper | 06:10 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "the main results were given for "> so is it true to claim that there are no known reaction of SARS-CoV-2 with other infections? | 06:11 |
| tsundere | i'm more concerned about chronic diseases in general. they test the really major ones, but for exapmle rare diseases are collecively very common. | 06:15 |
| tsundere | as LjL said lots of viruses are going around and many people don't notice them | 06:15 |
| LjL | oh i notice them | 06:16 |
| LjL | HSV is annoying as fuck | 06:16 |
| tsundere | s/them/all of them/ | 06:16 |
| LjL | Krey[m], actually the last interim paper i can find says "An additional immunogenicity cohort of those living with HIV was also enrolled but are not included in this interim analysis" | 06:17 |
| LjL | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext | 06:17 |
| LjL | so To Be Continued | 06:17 |
| LjL | would be nice if they'd published a paper newer than december 2020 but apparently not, unless i'm blind | 06:18 |
| LjL | AZ is pretty bleh ;( | 06:18 |
| Krey[m] | <tsundere "i'm more concerned about chronic"> i am also concerned about chronic disease in relation to covid-19 vaccination | 06:18 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "https://www.thelancet.com/journa"> can you establish credibility on lancet after the editor in chief willingly published chinese propaganda about the lab leak theory? | 06:19 |
| LjL | HIV is special because it severely impacts your immune system | 06:19 |
| LjL | Krey[m], yes, because they don't write the paper, they just publish them | 06:20 |
| Krey[m] | fair enough | 06:20 |
| LjL | and if we start discounting scientific papers based on political reasons related to what journal they're published on, seriously... | 06:20 |
| tsundere | the editor does not have credibility period. he is quite popular among some for whatever reason but he failed to retract three major papers and publicized one before publication and lied about its fast track status and a lot more. and one of those three papers was wakefield. | 06:20 |
| LjL | anyway that's AstraZeneca's official interim analysis of their phase 3 trial | 06:20 |
| LjL | you can take it or leave it, but you won't find other ones | 06:20 |
| Krey[m] | i though they have research of their own based on their RSS feed u.u | 06:20 |
| Krey[m] | also they made public statements as lancet editors discouraging the lab leak theory as conspiracy theory? | 06:21 |
| LjL | this conspiracy theory talk is bullshit | 06:21 |
| LjL | just drop it | 06:21 |
| LjL | a lab leak is not a conspiracy | 06:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from EurekAlert!: 94% of patients with cancer respond well to COVID-19 vaccines: More than 9 of 10 patients with cancer showed good immune response to the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines after receiving both doses, but subsets of high-risk patients did not, according to a study conducted by researchers at the Mays Cancer Center, home to UT Health San [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/fPxbpZ | 06:21 |
| LjL | by definition, a lab leak is an accident | 06:21 |
| LjL | that's why you call it a "leak" | 06:21 |
| LjL | nobody conspired | 06:21 |
| * Krey[m] goes to find the lancet article on webarchive | 06:22 | |
| * LjL goes to sleep | 06:22 | |
| tsundere | well there are deliberte leaks of information at least. idk about viruses. | 06:23 |
| Krey[m] | LjL: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext | 06:24 |
| Krey[m] | > We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin. | 06:24 |
| Krey[m] | By Dr. Peter Daszak who was in WHO Team who went in china to investigate the origin | 06:25 |
| Krey[m] | ... *Peter Daszak | 06:25 |
| Krey[m] | Hm O.o i guess it's not talking for lancet | 06:26 |
| Krey[m] | okay then | 06:26 |
| Krey[m] | wait no seems to be a public statement by lancet published by the Daszak and others who are editors? | 06:27 |
| Krey[m] | btw. the Daszak was funding the research in the wuhan lab in the coronaviruses | 06:27 |
| Krey[m] | <LjL "https://www.thelancet.com/journa"> also thanks ^-^ | 06:28 |
| tsundere | i vaguely remember some stuff about trying to conceal the connection of one player to others. it sounded bad. | 06:28 |
| tsundere | like an intentional coverup of a possible lab breach or so | 06:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Korea: +762 cases (now 157723), +3 deaths (now 2021) since a day ago — Liberia: +193 cases (now 4093), +1 deaths (now 128) since a day ago | 06:30 |
| * Krey[m] uploaded an image: (103KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/cHpSjPeKuljMpfpqAeObtUrF/image.png > | 06:31 | |
| Krey[m] | how i process researches heh | 06:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Behind Biden’s pledge to share 80 million vaccine doses: Lots of bureaucratic hurdles → https://is.gd/YqrVVM | 07:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for England, United Kingdom: +20831 cases (now 4.2 million), +11 deaths (now 112694) since a day ago — Unknown, Peru: +2412 cases (now 18459), +294 deaths (now 1425) since 24 days ago — Scotland, United Kingdom: +3887 cases (now 281222), +3 deaths (now 7716) since a day ago — Saint Petersburg, Russia: +1503 cases (now 469652), +111 deaths (now 16346) since a day ago | 07:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: CureVac Covid-19 vaccine records only 48% efficacy in final trial readout → https://is.gd/aMQ3dN | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +48786 cases (now 30.4 million), +815 deaths (now 399129) since 15 hours ago — Laos: +23 cases (now 2144) since 22 hours ago — British Virgin Islands: +15 cases (now 313) since 7 days ago — Belgium: +581 cases (now 1.1 million), +3 deaths (now 25173) since a day ago | 08:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: Impact of school isolation policy is not monitored: The government cannot say how many Covid infections are being prevented by sending pupils home. → https://is.gd/jvnHxo | 08:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Fashion: ‘The pandemic might just help in making slow fashion a reality’: Designer Ayush Kejriwal → https://is.gd/qdsfzd | 09:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Delta variant to become dominant strain of Covid-19 in coming months: WHO → https://is.gd/VZ61JE | 09:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: An Indian island paradise escaped COVID-19. Then a Hindu nationalist official arrived → https://is.gd/ixMlzr | 09:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from Emma Hodcroft: @firefoxx66: Ever wandered what other pathogens are circulating around - before the pandemic & since then? Check out this great chart from @seattleflustudy !(Of course, this may not be representative, the further away you are from Seattle!) → https://is.gd/f7UGoy | 10:21 |
| Krey[m] | i am still laughing at this https://youtu.be/e3lx6Scwfhg?t=878 it's such a perfect way to tell UK and dutch government that they are incompetent retards xD | 10:24 |
| Krey[m] | also does anyone know how to convince a 19yo girl to be a doctor instead of a nurse | 10:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Fiji: +431 cases (now 4849), +3 deaths (now 24) since 20 hours ago | 10:38 |
| undefined_bob | Krey[m]: give her money so that she can afford studying | 10:48 |
| Krey[m] | undefined_bob: she has the money | 10:48 |
| undefined_bob | becoming a doctor is long long way | 10:48 |
| Krey[m] | ye 3 more years last time i checked | 10:49 |
| Krey[m] | she lazy af | 10:49 |
| Krey[m] | and her being nurse is useless to me | 10:49 |
| Krey[m] | 💢 | 10:49 |
| undefined_bob | normally its more than three years after finished everything, including specialisation | 10:49 |
| Krey[m] | i meant nurse study + 3 years -> 5 years? | 10:50 |
| Krey[m] | at least that's how it is in europe | 10:50 |
| Krey[m] | O.o | 10:50 |
| undefined_bob | and the university part is hard | 10:50 |
| undefined_bob | Krey[m]: are you german? | 10:51 |
| Krey[m] | hell naw | 10:51 |
| Krey[m] | moravak! | 10:51 |
| Krey[m] | (in czechia) | 10:51 |
| undefined_bob | you have to complete the medical study at uni and then 5 to 6 years until you're a medical specialist | 10:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Could editing the genomes of bats prevent future coronavirus pandemics? Two scientists think it’s worth a try: Two researchers are proposing a drastic way to stop future pandemics: using a technology called a gene drive to rewrite the DNA of bats to prevent them from becoming infected… → https://is.gd/OgUjqx | 10:53 |
| Krey[m] | undefined_bob: Hm O.o seems to be just 5 years in czechia including the speciality | 10:54 |
| Krey[m] | well unless you have invidual plan in which case it's less | 10:54 |
| undefined_bob | Medical studies = 6 to 6.5 years. After you got your approbation an other 6 years until you're becoming a medical specialist | 10:56 |
| Krey[m] | in US right | 10:57 |
| undefined_bob | in Germany | 10:58 |
| undefined_bob | I'm not from the USA (sadly?) | 10:59 |
| undefined_bob | I visited Prague once. I liked it, it was nice. But most czech people were not very 'open' or friendly :( | 11:00 |
| Krey[m] | ye i hate prague too | 11:00 |
| Krey[m] | we call them josefs in morava | 11:00 |
| Krey[m] | they are pathetic and can't drive a car~ | 11:01 |
| undefined_bob | lol | 11:01 |
| Krey[m] | and often make news bcs they get drunk af and break things | 11:01 |
| undefined_bob | but the city itself is beautiful | 11:01 |
| Krey[m] | meh | 11:01 |
| Krey[m] | i hate czechs | 11:01 |
| undefined_bob | I visited a huge museum | 11:01 |
| Krey[m] | ye i always drive around it on the vašek on the horse | 11:02 |
| undefined_bob | and walked around in the neighborhood at night. I saw police but they ignored me | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: ECB’s Lagarde warns new coronavirus variants pose risk to economic recovery: FRANKFURT — The spread of variants of the coronavirus is a risk to Europe’s economic recovery, European Central Bank President Christine Lagarde said today. The warning comes as scientists predict the highly infectious Delta coronavirus variant, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/OxgETS | 11:03 |
| Krey[m] | ye i was watching police closing down vaškovo náměstí bcs of a psycho that threw an acid on a women and shot her O.o | 11:03 |
| Krey[m] | there ware helicopters and like 50 cops lol | 11:03 |
| undefined_bob | lol | 11:03 |
| Krey[m] | but apparently that guy was german | 11:04 |
| undefined_bob | did she deserve it? | 11:04 |
| Krey[m] | dunno | 11:04 |
| undefined_bob | weird | 11:04 |
| Krey[m] | i am on morava i care of the 8 dead from the huge mofo tornado | 11:04 |
| undefined_bob | ohh I read about it in the news | 11:04 |
| undefined_bob | much wind | 11:04 |
| Krey[m] | ye was scary x.x i ran into my bunker | 11:05 |
| Krey[m] | it was like 20 l, away from me and was running towards me when i was looking on the radar, but then turned around and went for some slovaks | 11:05 |
| undefined_bob | why do you have a bunker? | 11:11 |
| undefined_bob | because of russia? | 11:11 |
| zutt | world war 2 relics? | 11:13 |
| zutt | bunkers are great root cellars as well ;P | 11:13 |
| undefined_bob | ya maybe | 11:14 |
| undefined_bob | and good for hiding if you just dont like other humans | 11:15 |
| Krey[m] | undefined_bob: nah i built it recently it's my safe place~ | 11:16 |
| Krey[m] | i went to hide there from covid originally O.o | 11:16 |
| undefined_bob | so you dont like humans too? | 11:16 |
| undefined_bob | I like that | 11:17 |
| Krey[m] | nah i brainwash them to do what i tell them and then i like em | 11:17 |
| undefined_bob | you mean you're hiding young girls in your bunker? oO | 11:19 |
| Krey[m] | Boys and trans too~ :p | 11:22 |
| undefined_bob | lol great | 11:22 |
| Krey[m] | But mainly for them to be useful e.g. they harvested 42 kg of strawberries for me and 18kg of ehh tresne x.x | 11:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Dear Sajid Javid: open letter to a new minister of health: Dear secretary of state, You arrive at a crucial time in the pandemic and have the chance to shake off past mistakes and do things differently (doi:10.1136/bmj.n1649).1 We suggest 10 urgent... → https://is.gd/vA31JS | 11:23 |
| Krey[m] | And obidient ^-^ | 11:23 |
| undefined_bob | I like strawberries | 11:24 |
| undefined_bob | they are yummy | 11:24 |
| Krey[m] | Me too o.o but that damned Annie keeps clearing up my fridge for home made ice cream | 11:24 |
| Krey[m] | Such an abuser u.u | 11:24 |
| undefined_bob | woah but Ice Cream is super yummy | 11:25 |
| undefined_bob | only cheese pizza is better | 11:25 |
| Krey[m] | My ice cream is very yummy x.x | 11:25 |
| Krey[m] | They keep stealing it from me u.u | 11:26 |
| Krey[m] | Also I can make great home made pizza o.o | 11:26 |
| undefined_bob | lol | 11:26 |
| undefined_bob | I want too | 11:26 |
| Krey[m] | Heh for my slaves only~ | 11:26 |
| undefined_bob | but sharing is caring | 11:27 |
| Krey[m] | Ive even got an oven and I can do it better then most restaurants o.o | 11:27 |
| Krey[m] | <undefined_bob "but sharing is caring"> Ik thus why I am poly u.u | 11:28 |
| zutt | Krey[m]: since you probably have enough land, why not build a homemade pizza oven outside? | 11:28 |
| zutt | they're useful for all kinds of fun outdoors cooking! | 11:28 |
| * Krey[m] waits for LjL to read this and claim brain damage again~ | 11:28 | |
| zutt | and requires just bricks to build! | 11:28 |
| Krey[m] | <zutt "Krey: since you probably have en"> Thats what I did o.o | 11:28 |
| zutt | nice | 11:29 |
| Krey[m] | I even got clay now to became the master at pottery! | 11:29 |
| zutt | lol :P | 11:29 |
| * Krey[m] uploaded an image: (62KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/KEGQYnfwFVuUuJBWtbpHpukY/IMG_20210701_091608.jpg > | 11:29 | |
| Krey[m] | Also I wanted to use that for metal working but not hygienic u.u | 11:30 |
| Krey[m] | And working on making that oven to work on hydrogen while failing and being depressed about it u.u | 11:30 |
| Krey[m] | Bcs environment~ | 11:30 |
| Krey[m] | ... and I need that for jet engines u.u | 11:31 |
| Krey[m] | And its pita to harvest it from the air | 11:31 |
| Krey[m] | 💢 | 11:31 |
| undefined_bob | pita is some kind of greek bread | 11:32 |
| undefined_bob | yum yum | 11:32 |
| Krey[m] | O.i | 11:33 |
| * Krey[m] uploaded an image: (74KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/enrEMQHWxiFqeBobjcJIxkuU/IMG_20210701_093202.jpg > | 11:33 | |
| Krey[m] | Also making vegan food~ :3 | 11:33 |
| undefined_bob | https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d5/77/b2/d577b2094719a8ee19a7b453a6a31ab2.jpg | 11:36 |
| Krey[m] | tasty ⭐️_⭐️ | 11:36 |
| undefined_bob | pita yum yum | 11:36 |
| Krey[m] | hmm O.o | 11:36 |
| Krey[m] | i can make great pita bread~ | 11:36 |
| Krey[m] | i use hand drill for it | 11:36 |
| Krey[m] | o.o | 11:36 |
| Krey[m] | it gets it really smooth and nice texture | 11:36 |
| Krey[m] | x.x | 11:36 |
| undefined_bob | ya but be careful | 11:37 |
| Krey[m] | no need to be careful it has a chuck for that reason~ | 11:38 |
| Krey[m] | ... learned that after it almost broke my wrist | 11:38 |
| Krey[m] | x.x | 11:38 |
| Krey[m] | now it just does a Vrrrrr sound instead of cracking in my wrist and swelling ^-^ | 11:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +45225 cases (now 5.5 million), +672 deaths (now 135886) since 22 hours ago | 11:40 |
| undefined_bob | Russia no good | 11:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest topics: Detection of potential new SARS-CoV-2 Gamma-related lineage in Tocantins: bioRxiv – 30 Jun 21 ... After more than a year of the pandemic situation of COVID-19, the United Kingdom (UK), South Africa, and Brazil became the epicenter of new lineages of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/RR5b6O | 12:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Indonesia: +24836 cases (now 2.2 million), +504 deaths (now 58995) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +572 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 12:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. Each row/entry contains the number of new cases and deaths reported per day and per country in the EU/EEA. → https://is.gd/tBASDi | 13:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: ECDC: Data for the maps in support of the Council Recommendation on a coordinated approach to the restriction of free movement in response to the COVID-19 pandemic in the EU/EEA → https://is.gd/o2qmzJ | 13:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virology.ws: Dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine-Induced Antibody Immunity: Gertrud U. Rey Vaccination against the vaccine-preventable diseases is preferable to natural infection because it prevents illness and the long-term effects associated with many infections; and in most cases, it also leads to better immunity. In the case of immunity induced [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/FV7Z6w | 14:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Fashion: What is pandemic revenge dressing? → https://is.gd/oqimxx | 14:55 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-57667163 | 15:23 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.bbc.com: Football linked to 2,000 Scottish Covid cases - BBC News | 15:23 |
| de-facto | i really really hope UEFA gets terminated over its reckless attitude | 15:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from Francois Balloux: @BallouxFrancois: R to @BallouxFrancois: If they were unaware of the serological result when reporting symptoms, the children who had covid were less likely to be affected by a 'nocebo' effect, which we know can be a strong determinant of health and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/hAI45u | 15:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +8301 cases (now 921559), +143 deaths (now 14646) since a day ago — Senegal: +140 cases (now 43268), +2 deaths (now 1168) since 23 hours ago — Nepal: +1857 cases (now 640662), +33 deaths (now 9145) since a day ago — Switzerland: +172 cases (now 703176), +3 deaths (now 10894) since 19 hours ago | 15:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: WHO warns new COVID wave inevitable in Europe as cases rise → https://is.gd/cWtpur | 16:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Quanta Magazine: How Long COVID Keeps Us Sick: Other diseases with long-term symptoms can help us understand how COVID can affect us long after the virus itself is gone. The post first appeared on Quanta Magazine → https://is.gd/jZ7pwB | 16:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Carnegie Science Center Vaccine Speaker Series: Free webinar. Join local and national experts on COVID-19, vaccines, and the immune system for a deep-dive panel discussion on vaccine science and safety. → https://is.gd/6abBCa | 16:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Portugal: +2449 cases (now 882006), +5 deaths (now 17101) since 23 hours ago | 16:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @JohnCendpts: RT by @Dereklowe: Roche mulling quick filing for a tarnished Alzheimer’s drug as controversial Aduhelm OK electrifies the field — analysthttps://endpts.com/roche-reportedly-mulls-filing-resurrected-alzheimers-antibody-for-approval-as-aduhelm-fallout-continues/ → https://is.gd/yZy4hj | 16:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: Very interesting review of the new Michael Lewis book on the pandemic ("The Premonition"):https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2021/06/the-premonition.html → https://is.gd/wZbur5 | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Bangladesh Locks Down As Daily COVID Cases Quintuple: Bangladeshi soldiers are enforcing a seven-day lockdown. As the West opens up, poorer countries with low vaccination rates are being hit by wave after wave of COVID-19. → https://is.gd/srg3Ps | 17:03 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sdIXHwN7Xc | 17:20 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.youtube.com: Prima di continuare su YouTube | 17:20 |
| de-facto | "EMA press briefing 1July 2021" | 17:20 |
| de-facto | maybe they should get a new conference system? LOL | 17:32 |
| de-facto | after 11:30 they got it sorted... | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): Initial Presentation of a Pediatric Intestinal Pseudo-Obstruction Episode After SARS-CoV-2 Virus (COVID-19) Infection. → https://is.gd/LArVFO | 17:36 |
| de-facto | .title https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3874014 | 17:40 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From papers.ssrn.com: Safety and Immunogenicity Report from the Com-COV Study – a Single-Blind Randomised Non-Inferiority Trial Comparing Heterologous And Homologous Prime-Boost Schedules with An Adenoviral Vectored and [...] | 17:40 |
| de-facto | they use Cisco WebEX lol | 17:45 |
| de-facto | at least they are trying really hard to use it | 17:47 |
| pwr22 | Hmm, my flatmate after having his Moderna jab had a lot of bleeding and had a very pronounced bruise | 17:50 |
| pwr22 | His cotton wool was soaked with blood | 17:50 |
| pwr22 | I think his administrator at least nicked an artery, if not actually injecting in it | 17:50 |
| jacklsw | hey cisco webex is not bad | 17:50 |
| jacklsw | better security than zoom :D | 17:50 |
| pwr22 | WebEX is pretty terrible according to everyone I know who uses it 😀 | 17:51 |
| pwr22 | It uses like 100% CPU | 17:51 |
| de-facto | just look how well it works for EMA there | 17:51 |
| jacklsw | maybe, my company uses teams now | 17:52 |
| de-facto | anyhow they are trying to inform about vaccination strategy stating all vaccines should be effective against those variants currently circulating in Europe | 17:52 |
| de-facto | pwr22, that does not sound good at all | 17:52 |
| de-facto | how long ago? | 17:53 |
| jacklsw | in malaysia, those who got astrazeneca first dose were informed that they only get the 2nd dose 3 months after | 17:53 |
| jacklsw | is that the case everywhere else? | 17:53 |
| de-facto | i think its more effective that way, the problem is their protection during those 3 months is not enough to prevent Delta infection | 17:54 |
| de-facto | only fully vaccinated (hence 2 doses of AZ) may have enough protection to prevent hospitalization etc | 17:55 |
| de-facto | EMA still waiting on confirmatory data for protection against Delta with 1 JJ shot | 17:57 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +14655 cases (now 4.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 17:59 |
| yuta | A clinical trial of ivermectin begins in Japan. It is expected to be completed by the end of this year. | 18:01 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: couple weeks now | 18:04 |
| de-facto | hope he is fine, that is not supposed to happen there, normally they require to press the cotton onto the injection site for a few minutes and it should not bleed at all | 18:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iraq: +7554 cases (now 1.4 million), +30 deaths (now 17216) since a day ago — Myanmar: +2070 cases (now 159347), +13 deaths (now 3347) since a day ago — Italy: +879 cases (now 4.3 million), +21 deaths (now 127587) since 23 hours ago | 18:37 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: lol a few minutes. They do it for about 1 second 😀 | 18:45 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Nomina del nuovo Primo Ministro algerino, la nota della Presidenza del Consiglio ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/nomina-del-nuovo-primo-ministro-algerino-la-nota-della-presidenza-del-consiglio/17319 ) | 19:37 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Luxembourg: +108 cases (now 70895) since a day ago | 19:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Japan to tighten COVID-19 controls for some Olympic groups after variant cases | 01JUL21 → https://is.gd/gK5X4s | 20:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mozambique: +801 cases (now 77205), +6 deaths (now 884) since 22 hours ago | 20:04 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: do you know any resources on how effective the vaccines are in given intravenously? | 20:08 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Il Presidente Draghi incontra il Presidente del Consiglio della Repubblica dell’Iraq, Mustafa Al-Kadhimi ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/il-presidente-draghi-incontra-il-presidente-del-consiglio-della-repubblica-dell-iraq ) | 20:32 | |
| Brainstorm | New from New Scientist: Covid-19 news: Booster vaccines in England planned for September: The latest coronavirus news updated every day including coronavirus cases, the latest news, features and interviews from New Scientist and essential information about the covid-19 pandemic → https://is.gd/2cuhLr | 20:33 |
| spikehax | yeah, it looks like it causes brain damage, if the results of that image study are representative in population | 20:38 |
| spikehax | just not thalamus, but some other regions mostly on the left side | 20:39 |
| spikehax | memory, concentration, cognitive abilities could be affected, when checking some of their functions | 20:40 |
| de-facto | pwr22, no it would be very wrong and tbh i doubt it happened for him with the full dose without him having any additional problems | 20:41 |
| spikehax | whatever the reason, as i think its not shown its neuroinvasive, usually anyway. so it could be vascular injury or then like in that recent study, t-cells crossing blood-brain barrier which would be harmful in large quantities | 20:42 |
| de-facto | when I got my Moderna they put the cotton on it, fixed it with adhesive tape and told me to press on it for a few minutes to avoid any bleeding (maybe because i told them that i take ASS), but i think they tell this everyone (i hope at least) | 20:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Fauci Says He Won’t Take an Antibody Test: America’s COVID-19 doctor, Anthony Fauci, says he won’t bother taking an antibody test to find out whether he needs a coronavirus vaccine booster shot. → https://is.gd/KU7UGz | 20:43 |
| spikehax | btw i read a soccer fan forums where they reported symptoms, mostly from indian variant i suppose, problems to concentrate and "strange feeling" in body. sometimes not much else, but sometimes dry cough and/or fever | 20:45 |
| de-facto | nixonix, afaik its know that immunologic events can cause such inflammations, i guess it could be both, either neurotropic pathogen or immunologic inflammation, or even both | 20:45 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-57667163 <-- i posted this already earlier | 20:45 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.bbc.com: Football linked to 2,000 Scottish Covid cases - BBC News | 20:45 |
| spikehax | some infection doctor claimed, that with this variant they often test positive in pcr 5 days after assumed infection (couple days later than it used to be with other variants, according to that doc) | 20:45 |
| spikehax | and even so, that often when you are already symptomatic, pcr is still negative. i wonder if it can be true, like as a common phenomenom | 20:46 |
| de-facto | very much also depends on vaccination status and age and all that | 20:46 |
| spikehax | these vaxes have funny names. comirnaty was it, i cant seem to even remember it right. then az had some new hard to remember name too | 20:47 |
| spikehax | moderna took another path, its now Spikevax | 20:48 |
| de-facto | yay so i am half spikevaxxed :D | 20:48 |
| de-facto | lol silly names | 20:48 |
| de-facto | for whom are those names meant to use? | 20:50 |
| spikehax | "i told them that i take ASS" - you mean you told them to stick it in your ass instead of shoulder? | 20:50 |
| spikehax | (i suppose it means aspiration) | 20:51 |
| de-facto | oh interesting | 20:52 |
| de-facto | .tr <de Die Stiko empfiehlt daher Personen, die den Impfstoff von Astrazeneca als erste Impfdosis bekommen haben, unabhängig vom Alter als Zweitimpfung auf den mRNA-Impfstoff von Biontech/Pfizer oder Moderna zu setzen. Der Abstand zwischen den beiden Impfungen sollte laut Stiko ab vier Wochen betragen. | 20:52 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, German to English: Stiko therefore recommends that people who have received the vaccine from Astrazeneca as their first vaccination dose, regardless of age, use the mRNA vaccine from Biontech / Pfizer or Moderna as a second vaccination. According to Stiko, the interval between the two vaccinations should be four weeks or more. (MyMemory, Google) | 20:52 |
| de-facto | lol nope nixonix, that i take ASS (Aspirin) | 20:52 |
| spikehax | btw i found an article where some researcher demanded aspiration mandated for these vaccines. there she said that there would be risk of wasting the vaccine sometimes, if there will be blood in syringe | 20:53 |
| LjL | i think i told you or Doc before that "ASS" is not a good abbreviation for aspirin in English :P | 20:53 |
| de-facto | LjL, may be interested in that, STIKO thingy | 20:53 |
| LjL | de-facto, can i ask you to review something google translated in german that i need to send an ebay seller? | 20:53 |
| spikehax | so i guess in that case they wouldnt just move it and inject it to muscle with that blood | 20:53 |
| de-facto | sure | 20:53 |
| LjL | de-facto, well if only Stiko mattered here, my parents would get Pfizer :( i told them to ask the doctor they'll find anyway, that they want to get Pfizer, but without some prior certificate, i think that will be unlikely | 20:54 |
| de-facto | ASS is how its called here in pharmacy (sorry) | 20:54 |
| de-facto | LjL, its from today, so very new | 20:55 |
| LjL | de-facto, you already had it for people under 60, right? | 20:55 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/Kommissionen/STIKO/Empfehlungen/PM_2021-07-01.html <-- original in German | 20:56 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.rki.de: RKI - Empfehlungen der STIKO - Mitteilung der STIKO zur COVID-19-Impfung: Impfabstand und heterologes Impfschema nach Erstimpfung mit Vaxzevria (1.7.2021) | 20:56 |
| de-facto | LjL, yes i think so | 20:56 |
| spikehax | In an in-depth examination of how COVID-19 affects a patient's brain, National Institutes of Health researchers consistently spotted hallmarks of damage caused by thinning and leaky brain blood vessels in tissue samples from patients who died shortly after contracting the disease. They saw no signs of SARS-CoV-2 in the tissue samples, suggesting | 20:56 |
| spikehax | the damage was not caused by a direct viral attack on the brain | 20:56 |
| spikehax | do they have more recent studies on subject? | 20:56 |
| de-facto | not sure what they are going to do about JJ, maybe they also need some update at some point, i guess they are waiting for data on JJ vs Delta | 20:57 |
| spikehax | as 2nd dose of az isnt very effective, i would consider passing it and waiting until they agree to give me mrna as a 2nd. especially if the infection situation isnt bad | 20:58 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: from the literature I've found it seems it would just all go to the liver, express there for about a day and by 3 days it would be gone | 20:58 |
| pwr22 | It lasts more than a week expressing in the muscle, though even then a bunch ends up in the liver | 20:59 |
| spikehax | in finland people did just that in march-april, for their 1st dose. then around middle of march they announced, that starting from may 1st you may also ask mrna (instead of az) | 20:59 |
| spikehax | actually i was planning to do that for my 1st, but then those VIPIT things came and they started to give az only for those over 60 or something | 21:01 |
| de-facto | pwr22, yeah sounds about what what could happen, liver, spleen etc | 21:02 |
| de-facto | but i also think it would trigger some systemic reaction if one would inject a full dose into the bloodstream, this really should not happen | 21:02 |
| de-facto | but i dont know that, it should be avoided by carefully aspiring before slowly injecting | 21:03 |
| pwr22 | Seems like the liver sucks up all the lipid nano-particles | 21:05 |
| pwr22 | Though I imagine any allergic reaction would be more systemic and worse | 21:05 |
| pwr22 | But thankfully that is still fairly rare | 21:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +14 deaths (now 26287) since 23 hours ago | 21:06 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: don't use ASS as a term in an English speaking pharmacy unless you want to give whoever you're talking to a good laugh 😀 | 21:06 |
| pwr22 | I did lol 😛 | 21:07 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.25.449609v1 | 21:07 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.biorxiv.org: Drug repurposing based on a Quantum-Inspired method versus classical fingerprinting uncovers potential antivirals against SARS-CoV-2 including vitamin B12 | bioRxiv | 21:07 |
| de-facto | lol im glad you had fun pwr22 :P | 21:11 |
| nixonix | 30 frontal cortex and choroid plexus samples across 14 control (including 1 terminal influenza) and 8 COVID-19 patients. While a systematic analysis yields no molecular traces of SARS-CoV-2 in the brain, we observe broad cellular perturbations which predict that choroid plexus barrier cells sense and relay peripheral inflammation into the brain and | 21:12 |
| nixonix | show that peripheral T cells infiltrate the parenchyma | 21:12 |
| de-facto | https://www.ratiopharm.de/assets/_processed_/e/a/csm_ASS_rtp_100mg_msr_TAB_OP50_3D_Web_quer_links_full_12587482_81a1c37e3c.png | 21:12 |
| de-facto | so it really is called like that, its the most common name for it here | 21:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03710-0 | 21:13 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: Dysregulation of brain and choroid plexus cell types in severe COVID-19 | Nature | 21:13 |
| nixonix | The outermost layers of the cerebral cortex of patients who died of COVID-19 showed molecular changes suggesting suppressed signaling by excitatory neurons, along with heightened signaling by inhibitory neurons, which act like brakes on excitatory neurons. This kind of signaling imbalance has been associated with cognitive deficits and | 21:19 |
| nixonix | neurodegenerative conditions such as Alzheimer's disease | 21:19 |
| nixonix | T cells, immune cells that prowl for pathogens, were significantly more abundant in brain tissue from dead COVID-19 patients. In healthy brains, these immune cells are few and far between | 21:20 |
| nixonix | "Viral infection appears to trigger inflammatory responses throughout the body that may cause inflammatory signaling across the blood-brain barrier, which in turn could trip off neuroinflammation in the brain," | 21:22 |
| nixonix | "Our findings may help explain the brain fog, fatigue, and other neurological and psychiatric symptoms of long COVID," | 21:22 |
| nixonix | or do they use "post-covid" if its more than 3 months? usually chronic instead of lengthened, if its over 3 months | 21:23 |
| nixonix | but i guess mixed terminology is used with covid | 21:23 |
| nixonix | how about 1st dose protection and brain damage? would be interesting to us with long intervals between doses, and i think in some countries they plan to give kids only the 1st dose | 21:25 |
| nixonix | Certain immune cells, called T-cells, for instance, were far more abundant in the brains of those who had died from COVID-19. In fact, T-cell infiltration in the brain was apparent in all but one COVID-19 patient, while those in the control group showed none of these immune cells in their brain tissue | 21:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +21584 cases (now 2.0 million), +382 deaths (now 61029) since 23 hours ago — Spain: +12345 cases (now 3.8 million), +8 deaths (now 80883) since 23 hours ago | 21:31 |
| nixonix | from older study: "T cells and the brain's specialised immune cells, microglia, surrounded these spots in a number of patients; there were also dark areas of clotted bleeding | 21:31 |
| nixonix | these are from patients that died | 21:32 |
| nixonix | "The very small blood vessels in the brain were leaking," Nath told NPR. "And it wasn't evenly - you would find a small blood vessel here and a small blood vessel there." | 21:32 |
| nixonix | they have found cirus in brain cells, but rarely and low amounts. like here: | 21:35 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.sciencealert.com/sars-cov-2-may-invade-the-brain-through-the-nerves-of-our-noses | 21:35 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.sciencealert.com: New Study Reveals SARS-CoV-2 Can Invade The Brain Through The Nose | 21:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Film Shows How One Hospital Battled the Pandemic: New film documents how last spring’s COVID-19 surge affected frontline health care workers at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. → https://is.gd/jmYFHO | 21:35 |
| de-facto | yeah we were discussing it being probably neuroinvasive in early 2020 already | 21:38 |
| de-facto | i wonder if such inflammatory problems could be reduced by NSAID like Ibuprofen | 21:40 |
| zutt | %cases sweden | 21:41 |
| Brainstorm | zutt: In Sweden, there have been 1.1 million confirmed cases (10.6% of the population) and 14630 deaths (1.3% of cases) as of 5 hours ago. 10.8 million tests were performed (10.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.4% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 1.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Sweden for time series data. | 21:41 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101643 | 21:43 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nejm.org: Tofacitinib in Patients Hospitalized with Covid-19 Pneumonia | NEJM | 21:43 |
| nixonix | i dont think they have found a good anti-inflammatory for early symptoms. then those that inhibit only some specifig inflammatory cytokine like IL-6 havent been very effective i think | 21:44 |
| de-facto | "The cumulative incidence of death or respiratory failure through day 28 was 18.1% in the tofacitinib group and 29.0% in the placebo group (risk ratio, 0.63; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.41 to 0.97; P=0.04). Death from any cause through day 28 occurred in 2.8% of the patients in the tofacitinib group and in 5.5% of those in the placebo group (hazard ratio, 0.49; 95% CI, 0.15 to 1.63)." | 21:44 |
| nixonix | but ASS is an antiplatelet so i would take it for early symptoms | 21:44 |
| de-facto | its a a Janus kinase inhibitor | 21:45 |
| de-facto | maybe even that could be of help in such cases, what do you think nixonix ? | 21:45 |
| de-facto | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus_kinase_inhibitor | 21:45 |
| de-facto | .title | 21:45 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Janus kinase inhibitor - Wikipedia | 21:45 |
| nixonix | they have studied some JAK inhibitors, but i think results werent good | 21:46 |
| de-facto | risk ratio 0.63 sounds pretty good to me | 21:47 |
| de-facto | problem may be they also may suppress some anti-tumor mechanisms, but that probably does not really matter on short term usage | 21:48 |
| nixonix | what cytokines it inhibits? aspirin | 21:48 |
| de-facto | i meant the JAK inhibitors | 21:49 |
| nixonix | JAK is an indirect way to block them, but i think they can affect to different interleukins depending on drug | 21:49 |
| de-facto | oh "Funded by Pfizer" hmm so take that paper with a grain of salt | 21:50 |
| nixonix | aspirin is a JAK inhibitor or did i misunderstand you? | 21:50 |
| de-facto | i was talking about Tofacitinib | 21:51 |
| nixonix | ah yoj meant tofacitinib | 21:51 |
| de-facto | yeah | 21:51 |
| de-facto | tha paper i linked above | 21:51 |
| nixonix | ok then. i thought aspirin would have that too | 21:51 |
| de-facto | was mentioned in Kekule podcast | 21:51 |
| de-facto | i dont know that | 21:51 |
| nixonix | men and women should prob use different immune suppressors | 21:52 |
| de-facto | i just linked it because you were talking about cytokine problems, so maybe that could help with that | 21:52 |
| nixonix | and maybe different age groups too | 21:52 |
| nixonix | and ofc better would be monitoring as many inflammatory cytokines as possible, and treat people individually | 21:53 |
| de-facto | i think all those black fungus in india were due to overusage of immuno-suppressive drugs, because those were available in contrast to oxygen | 21:54 |
| nixonix | while womens immune response seems to be more effective for sars2 and other viral infections too, and men have more that harmful type response, women seem to suffer from long covid more often | 21:54 |
| nixonix | and its associated to existing medical problems and overweight, long covid | 21:55 |
| de-facto | immuno-suppressive drugs and diabetes | 21:57 |
| nixonix | which reminded me. aspergillosis | 21:59 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/175221/one-in-six-covid-patients-in-icu-also-had-fungal-infection-and-half-died/ | 21:59 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.brusselstimes.com: One in six Covid patients in ICU also had fungal infection, and half died | 22:00 |
| de-facto | yuck | 22:01 |
| de-facto | did not know that | 22:02 |
| nixonix | sounds like they dont test it nearly enough. how many victims because of just that? | 22:04 |
| de-facto | hard to tell, but there seems to be some (immunologic) connection between viral (SARS-CoV-2) infection and fungus infection, maybe immunologic resources are dedicated to the first hence not available to fight the second? also in addition drugs like DEX may be problematic i guess | 22:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American: COVID, Quickly, Episode 10: Long Haulers, Delta Woes and Barbershop Shots: Today we bring you a new episode in our podcast series: COVID, Quickly. Every two weeks, Scientific American’s senior health editors Tanya Lewis and Josh... -- Read more on ScientificAmerican.com → https://is.gd/byiiDf | 22:16 |
| nixonix | The disease aspergillosis caused by the fungus may easily go unnoticed in Covid patients, particularly those who are serious enough to be admitted to ICU and require a ventilator to breathe. Because the fungus has similar symptoms, the only way it can be detected is by carrying out a specific test | 22:17 |
| nixonix | “Much depends on the alertness of the attending physician,” Professor Katrien Lagrou of Leuven university hospital, who specialises in life-threatening fungal diseases, told the VRT. “The doctor should think about testing for fungi, but not everyone has that reflex. Fungal infections used to be one of the most missed diagnoses,” she said | 22:18 |
| nixonix | unless she's a hammer, and everything looks like nail to her... | 22:18 |
| nixonix | maybe also use of corticosteroids among some patients | 22:19 |
| nixonix | scientific americans sars2 articles were disappointing, when i read couple last spring | 22:22 |
| pwr22 | Ha ha | 22:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: Success of COVID-19 vaccines may be convincing people not to get vaccinated → https://is.gd/fuBYOZ | 22:27 |
| nixonix | the same team with that bone marrow paper i linked here awhile ago, released on another paper on b-cells somatic hypermutations in germinal centers. ill link in a minute, finding something to quote... | 22:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +266 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 22:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: 180 million Americans have had at least 1 COVID vaccine dose: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Jul 01, 2021 Communities with vaccination uptake of 30% or lower will be hardest hit by the Delta variant, CDC director says. → https://is.gd/P7oiJG | 22:37 |
| nixonix | impossible to copypaste those nature's pdf's. anyone knows a solution? | 22:44 |
| nixonix | "we show SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine-induced GC B are maintained or near peak frequencies for at least 12 weeks after secondary immunization | 22:44 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03738-2 | 22:47 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nature.com: SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccines induce persistent human germinal centre responses | Nature | 22:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: COVID-19 Scan for Jul 01, 2021: Household COVID spread Immigration detention and COVID-19 → https://is.gd/3wkZ3J | 22:48 |
| nixonix | anyways, while the titers are waning, memory b-cells keep improving in germinal centers, increasing the affinity of antibodies they produce | 22:48 |
| nixonix | and that another paper on long living plasma cells in bone marrow, which supposedly last for years, not much is known about them yet, exp that there are those from sars2 infection. if they provide protection, or there are those from vaccination too, its not known yet | 22:50 |
| nixonix | i meant decades, possibly for life | 22:51 |
| nixonix | and mrna vaccines outperform influenza vaccines with lasting of b-cells (against s-protein and hemagglutinin) | 22:53 |
| nixonix | sars2 specific RBD-targeting b-cells dominated in germinal centers, according to the study (meaning not crossreactive and possibly originated from immunity to another coronaviruses, like conserved regions of S or N) | 22:57 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90500 | 23:06 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medpagetoday.com: Thinning, Leaky Brain Blood Vessels Seen in COVID-19 | MedPage Today | 23:06 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.09.20207464v3.full | 23:10 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: SARS-CoV-2 infects brain astrocytes of COVID-19 patients and impairs neuronal viability | medRxiv | 23:11 |
| nixonix | i dont know about that, no ace2 in astrocytes, so using NRP1 as a receptor for binding to them | 23:11 |
| genera | what is N again? | 23:12 |
| de-facto | nucleocapsid, the RNA of the virus wraps around it | 23:12 |
| * genera scratches head | 23:13 | |
| de-facto | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21953-3 | 23:14 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nature.com: The SARS-CoV-2 nucleocapsid protein is dynamic, disordered, and phase separates with RNA | Nature Communications | 23:14 |
| genera | that sounds dynamic | 23:15 |
| de-facto | nixonix, its because those ACCELLERATED ARTICLE PREVIEW banners are over the text, maybe one can remove that after uncompressing it with pdftk and sed -i ... it away then repairing the pdf after such brutal treatment | 23:17 |
| de-facto | not sure if that is worth it though, idk why they did it like that | 23:17 |
| nixonix | this has a picture and some descriptions | 23:18 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/FI/en/technical-documents/protocol/research-and-disease-areas/immunology-research/ncov-coronavirus-proteins | 23:18 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.sigmaaldrich.com: Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) Viral Proteins | 23:18 |
| nixonix | those chapters side by side make it hard for pdf reader too | 23:19 |
| nixonix | paragraphs, what are they called? | 23:19 |
| Arsanerit | Can we get mRNA vaccines for other viruses too? | 23:22 |
| de-facto | yes of course | 23:23 |
| de-facto | any identified antigen that can be encoded in mRNA can be used | 23:24 |
| de-facto | the mRNA vaccine is more like a platform, containing the instruction for cells how to build the antigen (e.g. in this case s-protein, but also could be anything else) | 23:25 |
| de-facto | its very powerful, similar to a computer program, can contain almost anything that can be "run" | 23:26 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit, you probably know that already, but in case you dont, this is an interesting read https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/ | 23:26 |
| genera | i want loops and switch-cases | 23:27 |
| nixonix | this is interesting | 23:28 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/vaccines/ub-612-covid-19-vaccine | 23:28 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.precisionvaccinations.com: UB-612 COVID-19 Vaccine — Precision Vaccinations | 23:28 |
| nixonix | "to target a critical antigen from the Spike protein, the Receptor Binding Domain, which is considered necessary for viral attachment to human cells and additional viral epitopes (from other viral structural proteins) to promote B-cell and CD8+ T-cell memory responses | 23:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malawi: +233 cases (now 36359) since 19 hours ago | 23:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: mRNA vaccines ease breakthrough COVID; Novavax helps block variant: Mary Van Beusekom | News Writer | CIDRAP News Jul 01, 2021 Vaccinated people have a milder, shorter illness and lower viral loads, study finds. → https://is.gd/CFRxsT | 23:39 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: Thanks. | 23:41 |
| Arsanerit | I wonder why the Curevac vaccine performs so poorly then. | 23:41 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit, he also wrote about https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/curevac-vaccine-and-wonders-of-biology/ but that was before the interim trial results were published | 23:43 |
| nixonix | dudes, do you have information, links or something to adverse effects of non-western vaccines, like chinese and russian, indian or whatever? | 23:43 |
| Arsanerit | "it was found that if the U in RNA is replaced by a slightly modified molecule, our immune system loses interest" - I hope nobody tells the viruses about that... | 23:43 |
| nixonix | do we have any information, like from countries with semi decent reporting, like latin america or something, that use non-western vaccines? | 23:44 |
| nixonix | similar problems with adenovirus vaccines, like thrombosis? or whole virus vaccines with ADE or something like this: | 23:45 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.17.431755v1.full | 23:45 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.biorxiv.org: SARS-CoV-2 nucleocapsid protein dually regulates innate immune responses | bioRxiv | 23:45 |
| nixonix | due to excess IFN-I that N can induce | 23:45 |
| nixonix | dont worry, viruses have several immune evasive mechanisms that are prob better than humans have developed. prob no need for pseudouridine for them | 23:46 |
| nixonix | btw, if you remember that MHC-I grabbing hypothesis by ORF8, i wrote about last summer, it seems its possibly real | 23:50 |
| nixonix | ive seen it mentioned a few times lately | 23:50 |
| nixonix | meaning killer t-cells wouldnt recognize infected cells | 23:51 |
| nixonix | you remember of forgot? wasnt even a year ago, on july | 23:51 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.111823v1 | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.biorxiv.org: The ORF8 Protein of SARS-CoV-2 Mediates Immune Evasion through Potently Downregulating MHC-I | bioRxiv | 23:53 |
| nixonix | .title https://scitechdaily.com/major-scientific-leap-quantum-microscope-created-that-can-see-the-impossible/ | 23:59 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From scitechdaily.com: Major Scientific Leap: Quantum Microscope Created That Can See the Impossible | 23:59 |
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