libera/##covid-19/ Monday, 2021-07-05

Krey[m]	%cases czechia	00:19
Brainstorm	Krey[m]: In Czechia, there have been 1.7 million confirmed cases (15.6% of the population) and 30310 deaths (1.8% of cases) as of 14 hours ago. 30.2 million tests were performed (5.5% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 5.1% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 1.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Czechia for time series data.	00:19
Brainstorm	New from Francois Balloux: @BallouxFrancois: There is a difference between recognising women concerns about heavy / unregular periods following vaccination as a possible side effect of vaccination, with equating it to "occult spontaneous abortion", as you previously did. → https://is.gd/ijfP2B	00:41
LjL	those news from israel don't look great :(	00:49
LjL	although as usual i don't know where the study they're talking about is	00:49
LjL	but i'm particularly concerned, apart from the efficacy down to 85% or so to 70% in this estimate, about "According to the study, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is also less effective at preventing people infected with the Delta variant from developing serious symptoms."	00:49
LjL	https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/odsj7d/effectiveness_of_covid19_vaccines_against/ seems to reach completely different conclusions though, at least qualitatively since that abstract is all i've read	00:52
de-facto	.title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.01.450707v1	00:56
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: Ad26.COV2.S elicited neutralizing activity against Delta and other SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern \| bioRxiv	00:56
LjL	these studies on sera can provide some tentative comparisons, like, is Delta going to be worse than Beta with BNT	00:59
LjL	but even the studies on actual people don't agree enough with each other for them to make a lot of sense to me	00:59
de-facto	.title https://www.jnj.com/positive-new-data-for-johnson-johnson-single-shot-covid-19-vaccine-on-activity-against-delta-variant-and-long-lasting-durability-of-response	00:59
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.jnj.com: Positive New Data for Johnson & Johnson Single-Shot COVID-19 Vaccine on Activity Against Delta Variant and Long-lasting Durability of Response \| Johnson & Johnson	00:59
LjL	de-facto, oh i thought you might like to know, although i thought about it a few days ago but then i forgot to tell you, that there is no mention of "Pfizer" on my vaccine certificate, it talks about a Biontech vaccine ;P	00:59
LjL	i have that!	01:00
LjL	%links positive new data	01:00
Brainstorm	LjL, https://www.jnj.com/positive-new-data-for-johnson-johnson-single-shot-covid-19-vaccine-on-activity-against-delta-variant-and-long-lasting-durability-of-response (Positive New Data for Johnson & Johnson Single-Shot COVID-19 Vaccine on Activity Against Delta Variant and Long-lasting Durability of Response) is announced by J&J [... want %more?]	01:00
de-facto	interesting, maybe they bought it directly from BioNTech then?	01:00
de-facto	neat	01:00
LjL	de-facto, i'm not sure, it could still just be the official name of the vaccine regardless of who produced them	01:00
LjL	i'll show you the part of the certificate	01:01
de-facto	blank out the batch number though	01:01
* LjL-Matrix uploaded an image: (174KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/VQCyhtgFzHvgPwAHRffwCJrR/IMG_20210705_010206_HDR.jpg >		01:02
LjL	de-facto, it doesn't seem to say the batch number (this is the EU green certificate, i think it says the batch number on the actual paper i got)	01:03
LjL	but why is the batch number sensitive?	01:03
LjL	anyway you see it says manufactorer or holder of the authorization	01:03
LjL	so i guess in italy (or the entire EU?) biontech holds it	01:04
de-facto	or maybe its where that batch was sourced from?	01:05
de-facto	i am not even sure if EU made contract with BioNTech and/or Pfizer, i guess with both though	01:05
de-facto	because batch number is what makes this somewhat individualized, hence probably used for some verification at some point i guess	01:06
de-facto	tomorrow in one week i get my booster, i hope i get a cert too	01:07
LjL	de-facto, the way that these EU certificates are verified is they are digitally signed QRs	01:16
LjL	the written down part isn't even supposed to be checked	01:16
LjL	in fact you're instructed to fold it in a way that doesn't make it visible	01:16
de-facto	but arent such infos also in the QR?	01:18
de-facto	is it possible to decode it completely?	01:19
de-facto	i hope i get one too next week, want to play around with it	01:26
LjL	de-facto, yes, but there is a bit of privacy theater, in that member states' apps made for checking the certificate, depending on the particular one, will withhold that information from the "checker" and instead just say the person's name and birthdate (to check against an ID) and whether the certificate is valid or invalid	01:27
LjL	but they may use the information to determine that. for instance Switzerland will say that my certificate is invalid; the reason is that i've only had one dose, but they won't tell that to the person checking, they will just go "nope, bzzzt, invalid"	01:28
de-facto	hmm why does it not just display a complete decode, the status of the signature (and check for revoke online) and then display the summary thumbs up / down?	01:31
de-facto	and have you been able to completely decode every bit of it?	01:31
de-facto	or at least categorize each bit of it?	01:32
LjL	i haven't even tried. i've just scanned it with the Swiss scanner app, and verified that it gave out the same details as in the text	01:33
LjL	it doesn't check online except once a day because these apps need to work in places with no signal	01:34
LjL	the version of the Swiss app that's made for you to keep your certificate will display all the information	01:34
de-facto	yeah but updating revocation lists once a day is fine i guess (if they even have such a thing)	01:34
de-facto	i only know that from SSL	01:34
LjL	only the version that's made for someone else to check people's certificate limits itself to "valid/invalid" (and "bad signature" in the Swiss case)	01:35
LjL	actually let's see if my signature has become good today	01:35
LjL	because it's certainly good for Italy, but apparently not good enough to Switzerland	01:35
de-facto	one dose?	01:35
LjL	yeah but that is a separate concerns. it says the certificate is not valid in Switzerland, and that'll be because of one dose, but then it also says the signature is just invalid	01:36
de-facto	hmm	01:37
LjL	nope, still invalid	01:37
LjL	by the way, these QRs are very large	01:37
LjL	large enough in fact that my phone has trouble scanning it successfully	01:38
de-facto	how many bytes?	01:38
LjL	sigh let me check from something that can tell me :P	01:38
de-facto	i would try to do a raw decode of the QR and then play around with the binary	01:38
de-facto	cant python do that?	01:39
LjL	Android's default QR reading app can do that	01:39
LjL	but i have no particular intention to try reverse engineering it :P	01:39
LjL	besides it's all already on github	01:39
de-facto	ok ok, i would would want to know exactly what i show other people when they scan it	01:40
de-facto	hence i would try to decode every bit of it	01:40
de-facto	also to verify that the info is correct	01:40
LjL	de-facto, it's 520 bytes	01:41
LjL	when decoded as text	01:41
LjL	nothing in it looks readable as plain text though	01:41
LjL	but it also doesn't look like base64 or anything i recognize	01:41
de-facto	hmm maybe compressed?	01:42
de-facto	if its on github it should describe how to read that	01:42
LjL	it's all uppercase letters, numbers, space, and the symbols : % / - . * $	01:43
de-facto	hmm	01:44
LjL	de-facto, you can get test ones here https://github.com/eu-digital-green-certificates/dgc-testdata/tree/main/DE	01:44
LjL	and to read them from android	01:45
LjL	%fdroid covid certificate	01:45
Brainstorm	LjL, COVID Certificate Check 1.2.0 (ch.admin.bag.covidcertificate.wallet) in https://f-droid.org/repo: Check COVID certificates - updated 2021-07-02, see https://github.com/admin-ch/CovidCertificate-App-Android/releases	01:45
de-facto	base45?	01:47
de-facto	lol why?	01:47
LjL	hehe	01:47
LjL	i don't know, but i had just reached the same conclusion by looking at the json	01:47
LjL	it certainly doesn't make the QR code any smaller	01:48
de-facto	small letters are evil	01:48
LjL	which is an issue as QR codes should be "guaranteed-readable" if these things are to be used for travel	01:48
de-facto	how else will they read it over phone? :D	01:48
LjL	i think the final version is the one they call "PREFIX" in the json	01:48
LjL	because mine does start with HC1: :P	01:48
LjL	Health Certificate, version 1?	01:49
LjL	i wonder if "2DCODE" is the actual png or some other image representation of the QR in turn expressed in base64	01:49
LjL	maybe the wastage of base45 compared to cbor doesn't matter anyway, because QR codes are pre-compressed? (i don't know if they are, just guessing)	01:50
LjL	well the article about QR codes on wikipedia never mentions compression so maybe not	01:51
LjL	QR codes have a special encoding mode for alphanumeric data (upper-case only, plus digits and a few symbols). It uses less than 8 bits per character and can store 4,296 characters at most in this mode.	01:52
LjL	so maybe BASE45 is actually... this	01:52
LjL	"The Base45 Encoding A 45-character subset of US-ASCII is used; the 45 characters usable in a QR code in Alphanumeric mode."	01:53
LjL	mystery solved	01:53
LjL	well, partial mystery solved, now need to figure out what it decodes to :P	01:53
Brainstorm	New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Two Men Have Been in Jail for 45 Days for Saying Cow Poop and Piss Can’t Cure COVID → https://is.gd/940KfD	01:53
pwr22	IIRC there's some information density advantage to base 45 over base 64	01:57
pwr22	Or something like that	01:57
de-facto	LjL, https://github.com/panzi/verify-ehc	01:57
LjL	i was fighting with my ancient python 2.7 install and poetry not wanting to use python 3 for some reason, and the base45 module	01:58
pwr22	😀	01:58
LjL	i think i'm tired already	01:59
LjL	i believe that it contains the data it purports to contain, and i'm content with the efforts of others at decoding it	01:59
LjL	and i'm annoyed at pip and pypi and python and poetry	01:59
LjL	and i will now go print my parents' certificate because laser printing is much more satisfying than this	02:00
LjL	pwr22, de-facto: what i would note is that the framework for this whole thing allows for many more things than just COVID-19 vaccines	02:01
LjL	and maybe it's just IT people being more thorough than they're asked to be	02:01
LjL	... but i'm not so sure, because that'd be IT people working for the EU :P	02:01
LjL	so maybe they have some intention to give us a nice set of health certificates to carry around at some indefinite time in the future ;P	02:02
LjL	or they just foresee more pandemics	02:02
de-facto	hmm nothing bad with an universal approach, also because of the diversity those certs have to cover	02:06
de-facto	and yeah python is a pain with its dependencies	02:06
de-facto	it never works for me	02:06
de-facto	it does not even find base45	02:06
LjL	https://pypi.org/project/base45/ it's only available for python 3	02:18
LjL	"For the Dutch variant of the green pass using unlinkable signatures [1], we need all the space we can get, so we use a base45 encoding that uses the exact same method as base58 [2][3], and which has the exact same efficiency as QR binary mode."	02:24
LjL	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27603173	02:24
LjL	looks like standardization is failing to happen again	02:24
LjL	https://github.com/ehn-dcc-development/	02:29
Brainstorm	Updates for Netherlands: +1173 cases (now 1.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +313 cases (now 1.4 million) since 23 hours ago — France: +10 deaths (now 111232) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +17 deaths (now 128347) since 23 hours ago	02:30
de-facto	yeah it requires me to install an entirely new version of python on my system	02:31
de-facto	python :/	02:31
de-facto	python3 -m venv qrvenv; qrvenv/bin/pip install -r requirements.txt; qrvenv/bin/python verify_ehc.py	02:33
de-facto	thats what i would need to run, but i would need to install a new system for that, so erm, no thanks	02:34
Brainstorm	New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Indonesian epidemiologist says country has reached 'herd stupidity' in COVID second wave → https://is.gd/WW9zxV	02:35
LjL	de-facto, how old a system do you have that lacks even python 3.7 though :P	02:45
Brainstorm	New from https://covid19.specops.network : Add info about EU Digital COVID Certificate standards and implementation: I shoved this into the "Public deployments" sections although that was previously for digital tracing efforts. Should make some order some day. → https://is.gd/s3eiOV	02:45
de-facto	python is hell for me	02:46
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add info about EU Digital COVID Certificate standards and implementation ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/5603138179b62aaeb0f1379c62e36a252b432a18 )		02:46
pwr22	Python 2 is properly end of life now and any machine that isn't insanely insecure in itself should have a system python 3 available, even if it needs to be installed	03:05
de-facto	ok finally got it running	03:08
de-facto	it decodes a png to json	03:08
de-facto	i had to install an entirely new python, what a nightmare	03:09
de-facto	LjL, this is the decode of one of those pngs https://pastebin.com/dFDv5SYX	03:09
de-facto	does that look like the android decode?	03:10
de-facto	e.g. are both complete?	03:10
de-facto	this png here https://raw.githubusercontent.com/eu-digital-green-certificates/dgc-testdata/main/DE/2DCode/png/1.png	03:15
Brainstorm	New from Reddit (test): nCoV: AP Exclusive: Diplomats say China puts squeeze on Ukraine \| 25JUN21 → https://is.gd/mWXWia	03:16
de-facto	i think its exactly the JSON: thing in the testdata	03:16
de-facto	hence i assume its always the same thing, just encoded in all different formats there	03:17
de-facto	this here https://github.com/eu-digital-green-certificates/dgc-testdata/blob/main/DE/2DCode/raw/1.json	03:17
Brainstorm	New from Reddit (test): nCoV: New cases over 700 for 3rd day as delta variant shows signs of spreading \| 04JUL21 → https://is.gd/8e1Gld	03:37
de-facto	so South Korea too	03:51
de-facto	Delta probably is everywhere where planes with passengers are still allowed to land	03:52
pwr22	I'm not so worried about Delta now in places that have good vaccine access	03:52
pwr22	But it's the next strains that worry me	03:52
pwr22	Seems that it is still infecting huge numbers of people who have attenuated symptoms	03:53
pwr22	but that's a large reservoir for evolution to happen in	03:53
de-facto	idk, i am worried about Delta, it still increases with R~1.3 even in UK and that is the country with one of the most vaccinated populations	03:54
pwr22	At least the UK and Boris's "irreversible reopening" has given us an excellent dataset to prove out even the AZ vaccine against Delta	03:54
pwr22	Sure but our deaths / hospitalisations are not really increased	03:54
de-facto	its massively breeding on vaccine evasion	03:54
pwr22	Which shows the attenuation is there	03:54
pwr22	So I believe Boris still plans to re-open everything this month and I heard they're also going to get rid of mask requirements	03:55
de-facto	wait for it, it will become more nasty also in vaccinated, its where selection will drive this	03:55
pwr22	I don't believe there will be selection for it to increase the deaths personally	03:55
pwr22	What benefit is that? It's spreading in the UK better than any of the previous variants	03:55
de-facto	as long as high incidence is tolerated, especially in partly vaccinated or largely recovered populations it will select the more aggressive and evasive mutations, because selection is much stronger in such enviromentns	03:55
pwr22	And it's not dangerous, which is advantageous for it's spread as it causes us to release from lockdown	03:56
pwr22	If it becomes dangerous, it selects against it's own re-productivity because then we will take measures to halt it again	03:56
de-facto	the benefit is that the variants that are more reproductive in vaccinated will dominate incidence	03:56
pwr22	<de-facto "as long as high incidence is tol"> Oh yes aggressive in terms of spread, indeed, but not dangerous imo	03:56
pwr22	Sure, like Delta already dominates the UK since some months back	03:57
pwr22	I don't disagree	03:57
de-facto	i dont know that, but i think it will become more dangerous because the variants will need to increase their reproduction in the "harsh" environment of vaccinated populations	03:57
pwr22	I just fear the next big strain becoming dangerous again through escape or other means	03:57
de-facto	i think the next strain will be some evasive mutation of Delta	03:58
pwr22	Yeah almost certainly imo	03:58
de-facto	making vaccines non-effective	03:58
de-facto	or at least much less effective	03:58
pwr22	I feel like the situation of it being able to reproduce effectively but not really harming us is probably the best place to be in terms of minimising selection pressure but I feel you're right, it will change it up eventually	03:59
pwr22	I hope we will be rolling out some more updated vaccines in the next 6 months	03:59
pwr22	Apparently we will be giving booster shots in the UK this autumn but I'm unsure if there will be any gen 2 vaccines to give out by then	03:59
pwr22	So it might just being cross mixing the gen 1 vaccines	04:00
de-facto	yes but bruteforcing vaccinations has to be prevented as much as possible, otherwise we risk that they become ineffective	04:00
de-facto	its especially because those vaccines contain spike signatures that almost are 1 and a half years old by now	04:00
de-facto	this never was tried ever before	04:00
pwr22	Yeah, we are in some uncharted territories here	04:01
pwr22	And at least in the UK I don't feel our government has given people a realistic view of what may or may not happen	04:01
de-facto	maybe it wont be problematic, but tbh to me it would be much more plausible if evolution would select evasive and more reproductive (hence more aggressive) variants	04:01
pwr22	re: "irreversible reopening" plus we have "beat the virus" at least 3 times now according to Boris 😀	04:01
de-facto	and that selection would be strongest in populations where it barely can break through vaccinations	04:01
de-facto	then founders effect will give strong rise to those few breakthroughs	04:02
de-facto	they basically would see a partly (maybe even fully) susceptible population again if mutations bruteforced vaccinations successfully	04:02
de-facto	so in my opinion the possibility of such a scenario alone already should be enough reason to limit incidence	04:03
pwr22	That's my worry. That we will be "fully open" as a society again and not really reactive enough to notice the new super contagious and vaccine resistant strain until it's too late	04:03
pwr22	or unwilling to do anything until it's too late	04:03
de-facto	and delta is the first variant now that will have to deal with large portions of populations that received 1 or 2 doses, so it will be the first variant that sees this really strong selection	04:04
pwr22	As the population here seem to think it really is the end of the world that they haven't been able go to pubs normally in the last year or so	04:04
pwr22	So they our population in the UK is becoming more and more resistant to taking any sort of preventative measures	04:04
pwr22	I've had a great number of anti-lockdown protests in my city here 😟	04:05
de-facto	yeah those are everywhere, i deeply felt ashamed when they happened here too	04:05
de-facto	tbh i dont know what will happen, but my intuition tells me nothing good, that selection would strongly dial towards more aggressive and evasive strains	04:07
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Brazil Vaccine Scandal Imperils Bolsonaro as Protests Spread → https://is.gd/TtGcVr	04:08
de-facto	not sure about that Delta+K417N	04:09
de-facto	some say that already goes towards that direction, i guess we will know soon	04:09
de-facto	pwr22, btw same problem here, politicians said things like "we dont ever want a lockdown again"	04:16
de-facto	and it will be elections in the fall, hence i guess that means nothing good	04:17
pwr22	☹️	04:27
de-facto	not sure if politicians are aware of evolution or if they just look at current hospitalizations	04:33
de-facto	i guess they will again make the mistake and react instead of proactive strategies	04:33
pwr22	I expect so, humans seem quite biased towards counterproductive behaviour in the face of a global pandemic	04:34
pwr22	As has happened in every pandemic before	04:34
pwr22	And likely will continue onwards	04:34
Brainstorm	Updates for United Kingdom: +23998 cases (now 4.9 million), +15 deaths (now 128350) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +1195 cases (now 1.7 million) since 23 hours ago — France: +9 deaths (now 111235) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +390 cases (now 1.4 million) since 23 hours ago	04:35
pwr22	At least we have greater technology in each subsequent pandemic	04:35
pwr22	Eventually they might just become a nuisance in our grandchildren's generation	04:35
de-facto	well yeah but this pandemic is far from over	04:36
pwr22	When we all own de-facto branded medicine printers 😀	04:36
de-facto	well CureVac was working on that with Tesla	04:37
de-facto	not sure if they still can afford such projects now, i hope they will survive their setback	04:37
de-facto	that was part of the reasons why i hoped for their success, so they could drive innovation together	04:38
Brainstorm	New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Transplant patients 'desperate' for COVID vaccine protection are getting illicit 3rd doses — and it might be working for some → https://is.gd/vxySKT	04:39
de-facto	but what i meant for now is that i was hoping that politicians would learn and at least try to make a longterm strategy that goes beyond a few weeks into the future	04:39
de-facto	working towards a longterm goal of stabilizing this, at least once try to assume the worst instead of the best outcome and try to prevent that from happening	04:41
de-facto	but instead they always assume the best possible outcome hence reality always is worse than their predictions	04:41
de-facto	its already a set mechanism, they just re.iterate the same thing again and again instead of learning from the past	04:42
pwr22	Yeah, politicians don't seem to care about anything in a long term or rational sense	04:49
de-facto	well some countries may have a more sustainable longterm strategy, and i bet that strongly will separate them from the rest	04:54
de-facto	also in terms of economy etc	04:54
de-facto	high incidence is astronomically expensive	04:56
de-facto	also because of all the aftermath, not even to begin to speak about long covid et al	04:56
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Jailing me during Covid pandemic is same as death sentence: Former South African president Jacob Zuma → https://is.gd/4Z0IAz	05:10
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Celebrating nation’s birth, Joe Biden urges Americans to help end Covid-19 pandemic → https://is.gd/8iqjyf	05:21
pwr22	de-facto: I think you have more faith in humanity than me 😛	05:38
de-facto	i think we have to make the best out of what we have, currently i think there is a lot of potential for improvement (to say the least)	05:40
de-facto	this pandemic may be the last chance for humanity to fix biosecurity, its only a question of time when a really fatal pathogen will challenge an even more globalized humanity	05:42
de-facto	its our duty to fix as much of it as we can, learn as much as we can, try out as much innovative concepts as we can and wrestle this down, we owe it to the next generations, otherwise they will blame us for wasting this opportunity	05:44
de-facto	whatever it takes, we have to dominate incidence, at any price	05:44
de-facto	there is no alternative	05:45
de-facto	the longer it takes for governments to realize that, the more expensive it will be, but eventually this is the only solution	05:45
de-facto	i would be optimistic if they tried new innovative concepts, but there only can be ONE goal: bring down incidence and suffocate this damn thing	05:46
de-facto	a good starting point would be to realize that any compromise is in favor of viral replication	05:51
de-facto	anyhow i hope that delta will teach us this lesson, it seems its about to cause a HUGE global wave	05:52
* de-facto needs to get some sleep		05:52
Brainstorm	Updates for Unknown, Peru: +7559 cases (now 31507), +543 deaths (now 2324) since 3 days ago — Saint Petersburg, Russia: +1784 cases (now 476452), +104 deaths (now 16776) since a day ago — Northern Ireland, United Kingdom: +533 cases (now 128780) since a day ago — Nizhny Novgorod, Russia: +432 cases (now 126446), +24 deaths (now 4319) since a day ago	07:41
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Tokyo assembly split after vote amid pandemic Olympics fears → https://is.gd/Vy55C6	07:58
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Mortuary at Fiji's largest hospital full as COVID-19 cases surge → https://is.gd/b1OwvH	08:19
Brainstorm	Updates for India: +39796 cases (now 30.6 million), +807 deaths (now 402497) since 23 hours ago	08:31
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 surge means 40% of Tokyo Olympics sessions could be held without fans → https://is.gd/YA4c2p	08:40
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: Covid: Train bosses say social distancing not always possible: Wales' train operator says it is not always possible to enforce Covid rules during busy times. → https://is.gd/2feJLM	09:11
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Auguri di pronta guarigione a Papa Francesco ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/auguri-di-pronta-guarigione-papa-francesco/17342 )		10:05
Brainstorm	Updates for Puerto Rico: +66 cases (now 123149) since 23 hours ago	10:10
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: PM to confirm 19 July end to Covid rules despite scientists’ warnings: Boris Johnson to press ahead with final stage of unlocking in England amid huge rise in infections → https://is.gd/3lkNbb	10:12
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Should people with immune problems get third vaccine doses? → https://is.gd/3RpAqt	10:32
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +274 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago	10:35
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Concorso a 40 (elevati a 60) posti di referendario di T.A.R. anno 2021: diario delle prove scritte ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/concorso-40-elevati-60-posti-di-referendario-di-tar-anno-2021-diario-delle-prove-scritte )		11:00
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Draghi partecipa al Vertice del "Processo di Berlino" ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/draghi-partecipa-al-vertice-del-processo-di-berlino/17344 )		11:30
Brainstorm	New from Politico: Coronavirus: Boris Johnson to announce lifting of England’s COVID restrictions for July 19 → https://is.gd/H3GQvs	11:44
Brainstorm	New from Science-Based Medicine: Ivermectin is the new hydroxychloroquine, take 3: Conspiracy theories vs. science: Last month, I discussed why ivermectin is the new hydroxychloroquine:, basically a “miracle cure” that isn’t. Since then, conspiracy theories about its being "suppressed" have continued to bump heads with the science showing that, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/pyPucp	12:05
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Riparto del 2X1000 dell'IRPEF, aggiornamento dei CF di alcune associazioni culturali ammesse ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/riparto-del-2x1000-dellirpef-aggiornamento-dei-codici-fiscali-di-alcune-associazioni )		12:45
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express (Health): Destination of the week: ‘Revenge travel’: Because home is not where the heart is after months of lockdown → https://is.gd/LVrrzo	13:37
Brainstorm	New from Ars Technica: America’s “Smart City” didn’t get much smarter: Technical hurdles, bureaucracy, and the pandemic dashed many of Columbus, Ohio's tech plans. → https://is.gd/EUo6zd	13:58
Brainstorm	Updates for Iran: +16025 cases (now 3.3 million), +157 deaths (now 84949) since 23 hours ago — N. Cyprus: +72 cases (now 8350) since 23 hours ago — Nepal: +1745 cases (now 646367), +23 deaths (now 9248) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +266 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago	14:06
Brainstorm	Updates for Indonesia: +29745 cases (now 2.3 million), +558 deaths (now 61140) since a day ago — Afghanistan: +5593 cases (now 125937), +321 deaths (now 5283) since 3 days ago — Libya: +782 cases (now 195824), +2 deaths (now 3213) since a day ago — Fiji: +352 cases (now 6513), +3 deaths (now 33) since a day ago	14:31
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Europeans hit the clubs amid surge in Delta variant COVID-19 cases → https://is.gd/V226FT	14:50
Brainstorm	Updates for Liberia: +398 cases (now 4918), +1 deaths (now 134) since 2 days ago	15:08
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: Covid: Mask law and one metre rule set to end in England: Boris Johnson is ready to signal most of the remaining Covid restrictions can be eased from 19 July. → https://is.gd/A1NcAM	15:22
Brainstorm	Updates for Bangladesh: +9964 cases (now 954881), +164 deaths (now 15229) since 22 hours ago — Senegal: +191 cases (now 43959), +1 deaths (now 1175) since 22 hours ago	15:33
spybert	de-facto: I wouldn't count on government learning anything from this. Be it biosecurity or an solar flare-resistant power infrastructure, governments don't want to spend money in the present to combat possible problems in the future.	16:04
rpifan	they dont got the moeny	16:06
Brainstorm	Updates for Iraq: +8030 cases (now 1.4 million), +29 deaths (now 17345) since 23 hours ago — Gambia: +37 cases (now 6116), +1 deaths (now 182) since 5 days ago — Germany: +239 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago	16:35
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Israel data 'preliminary signal' Delta variant can bypass vaccine: expert: Rising coronavirus cases in Israel, where most residents are inoculated with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, offer "a preliminary signal" the vaccine may be less effective in preventing mild illness from the Delta variant, a top expert said Monday. → https://is.gd/vG0C3R	16:47
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Duchess of Cambridge Forced to Self-isolate After Covid-19 Contact → https://is.gd/KPy5vY	17:07
Brainstorm	New from BMJ: Sixty seconds on . . . EU covid certificates: Europe-wide, covid secure travel is finally here . . .Unfortunately, many people in the UK aren’t eligible so can’t take advantage of this.Because of Brexit?Indirectly. As the UK has left the EU, it... → https://is.gd/YXSU9e	17:17
Brainstorm	New from Reddit (test): Monday 05 July 2021 Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://is.gd/ee5Wmf	17:38
Brainstorm	New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Flucelvax Tetra, influenza vaccine (surface antigen, inactivated, prepared in cell cultures), Influenza, Human, Date of authorisation: 12/12/2018, Revision: 8, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/X67dla	17:49
Brainstorm	Updates for United Kingdom: +27100 cases (now 4.9 million) since 23 hours ago	18:02
Brainstorm	New from Politico: Coronavirus: Luxembourg PM Bettel ‘serious but stable’ in hospital with coronavirus → https://is.gd/Kq0Z2D	18:19
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: Covid: Most rules set to end in England, says PM: Boris Johnson says distancing rules and mask law will be scrapped as England's lockdown roadmap ends. → https://is.gd/ABWkAO	18:30
vaxonvaxoff	what we had for pfizer vs symptomatic infection, was it 88% in england (+wales?), 79% in scotland - supposedly mostly with 12 weeks interval there	18:45
vaxonvaxoff	.title	18:45
Brainstorm	vaxonvaxoff: From is.gd: Covid: Most rules set to end in England, says PM - BBC News	18:45
vaxonvaxoff	.title https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-vaccine-drops-to-64-efficacy-in-stoping-infections-in-israel-as-delta-spreads-1.9971842	18:45
Brainstorm	vaxonvaxoff: From www.haaretz.com: Vaccine drops to 64% effectiveness in Israel as delta variant spreads, Health Ministry says - Israel News - Haaretz.com	18:45
vaxonvaxoff	.title https://www.ft.com/content/0b3da41e-6390-4f4b-866c-da5c6aec7f5e	18:46
Brainstorm	vaxonvaxoff: From www.ft.com: Subscribe to read \| Financial Times	18:46
vaxonvaxoff	* Pfizer vaccine less effective against spreading of Delta variant, Israeli study finds https://archive.is/bnQYp	18:46
vaxonvaxoff	and the above with 3 weeks. could 12 weeks then be better with mrna vaxes too? age dependent?	18:47
vaxonvaxoff	lots of pfizer 2 dose breakthroughs in that finnish hospital among personnel, but no idea if they were with 3 week or 11-12 week interval	18:48
vaxonvaxoff	so i think ljl was right, that breakthroughs are a concern, and maybe waning a bit too fast, as those hospital personnels were prob early winter vaccinated, and israel was the fastest to vax	18:50
vaxonvaxoff	i just read the first finnish healthcare official statements, that we are probably going to follow british with 3rd dose, while before this they said maybe just the highest risk groups might be given the 3rd next year	18:52
vaxonvaxoff	i think healthcare officials have more information on these than theyve publicly said to press	18:53
vaxonvaxoff	call me vaxcist, but im for vacc passports for bar and event access, and mandatory for hcw and elderly caregiver. viral dose seems to be a factor with breakthrougs	18:55
vaxcist	.title https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2021/07/06/2003760380	18:57
Brainstorm	vaxcist: From www.taipeitimes.com: Beijing pressing groups to buy Pfizer vaccine - Taipei Times	18:57
vaxcist	.title https://www.thelocal.it/20210704/italian-healthcare-workers-fire-lawsuit-against-mandatory-vaccinations/	19:01
Brainstorm	vaxcist, the URL could not be loaded	19:01
vaxcist	.title https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-breaks-up-fake-eu-covid-pass-schemes-2021-07-03/	19:08
Brainstorm	vaxcist: From www.reuters.com: Italy breaks up fake EU COVID pass schemes \| Reuters	19:08
vaxcist	Prices ranged from 110 to 130 euros ($130-155) for an "all inclusive" package of fake pass and purported vial of vaccine. Some buyers came from outside the EU. "About 250,000 users had registered, and a hundred tried to interact with the sellers,"	19:08
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Scomparsa di Raffaella Carrà. Dichiarazione del Presidente del Consiglio ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/scomparsa-di-raffaella-carr-dichiarazione-del-presidente-del-consiglio/17393 )		19:15
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Luxembourg PM in ”serious,” stable condition with COVID-19 → https://is.gd/44h8xx	19:21
vaxcist	.title https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/novavax-now-best-covid-19-vaccine/619276/	19:25
Brainstorm	vaxcist: From www.theatlantic.com: Novavax Is Now the Best COVID-19 Vaccine - The Atlantic	19:25
Brainstorm	vaxcist: From www.theatlantic.com: Novavax Is Now the Best COVID-19 Vaccine - The Atlantic	19:25
vaxcist	what was the mixture of variants on novavax trial? or dates and countries they were done?	19:26
vaxcist	if it was immune evasion variant heavy, novavax might be better than current mrna vaccines	19:27
nixonix	dose interval?	19:28
Brainstorm	Updates for Luxembourg: +398 cases (now 71429) since 2 days ago — Jersey: +210 cases (now 3884) since 2 days ago — Italy: +480 cases (now 4.3 million), +31 deaths (now 127680) since 23 hours ago	19:35
Brainstorm	New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLO SVILUPPO ECONOMICO - DECRETO 23 giugno 2021: Scioglimento della «Vega logistic service societa' cooperativa», inMilano e nomina del commissario liquidatore. (21A03996) → https://is.gd/9IzZsi	19:52
Brainstorm	Updates for Canada: +2 deaths (now 26362) since 20 hours ago	20:00
nixonix	trial conducted at 33 sites in the United Kingdom, we assigned adults between the ages of 18 and 84 years in a 1:1 ratio to receive two intramuscular 5-μg doses of NVX-CoV2373 or placebo administered 21 days apart ... efficacy of 86.3% (95% CI, 71.3 to 93.5) against the B.1.1.7 (or alpha) variant and 96.4% (95% CI, 73.8 to 99.5) against	20:02
nixonix	non-B.1.1.7 variants	20:02
nixonix	This ongoing trial was initiated during the period in which the B.1.1.7 variant was starting to circulate more widely	20:02
nixonix	but i think i read it will take way into 2022 when its available, so there will be variant updates for it and mrna vaccines too, so we will see	20:04
nixonix	.title https://gizmodo.com/journal-retracts-terrible-study-that-claimed-widespread-1847219596	20:05
Brainstorm	nixonix: From gizmodo.com: Journal Retracts Study That Claimed Widespread Covid-19 Vaccine Deaths	20:05
nixonix	.title https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/07/scientists-quit-journal-board-protesting-grossly-irresponsible-study-claiming-covid-19	20:05
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.sciencemag.org: Scientists quit journal board, protesting ‘grossly irresponsible’ study claiming COVID-19 vaccines kill \| Science \| AAAS	20:06
nixonix	leaked canadian document, they claim https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j1ht46ckc3njymp/AACLwtjRhvs9wmZc4Fsnpbrxa/COVID_Evidence_Brief_Quarantine_Compliance.pdf?dl=0	20:12
nixonix	Adherence to COVID-19 isolation and quarantine were reported in four studies and ranged from 75% in a study from South Korea to 25% in a study from the UK (5, 6, 8, 10)	20:13
nixonix	not that recent, but this had an interesting quote:	20:16
nixonix	.title https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/r111oX6W200	20:16
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.ynetnews.com: Israel to bring back indoor mask mandate from Sunday, health official says	20:16
nixonix	“We know that responsiveness to maintaining self-isolation is about 30%. People returning from abroad do not stay in self-isolation and can spread the disease. This is how the Delta variant made its way to us,"	20:16
nixonix	idn, it seems there was around 400 identified (almost all indian variant) cases among finnish soccer hooligans, when they came from russia - and i read at least 4500 hooligans took the trip	20:18
nixonix	and this far they think they caused just 50 more infections, or what they know about, so mostly in families. but who knows whats the real number, when that biogen conference case apparently caused at least 300k	20:21
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Two Men Have Been in Jail for 45 Days for Saying Cow Poop and Piss Can’t Cure COVID → https://is.gd/IAggW8	20:22
nixonix	those hooligans were under public pressure, though	20:22
pwr22	Eurgh, Boris has been a **** again	20:29
pwr22	We're gonna open everything up, totally normal, no make	20:29
pwr22	*masks	20:29
pwr22	But we must "reconcile ourselves that covid will cause more deaths"	20:29
pwr22	I worry and my loved ones who are vulnerable and am so angry that he's basically said "if these people die, that's the price we must pay"	20:33
nixonix	the tighter and longer the lockdown, the less compliance and self-discipline?	20:59
Brainstorm	Updates for Myanmar: +2969 cases (now 168374), +42 deaths (now 3461) since a day ago	21:02
Brainstorm	New from Politico: Boris Johnson’s freedom problem: The PM confirmed an easing of most coronavirus restrictions in England — but faces questions over masks and how long the lifting will last. → https://is.gd/Cny54p	21:03
Arsanerit	When was the biogen conference?	21:41
LjL-Matrix	Test	21:47
nixonix	late feb 2020	21:49
nixonix	.title https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavirus/biogen-conference-in-boston-now-tied-to-more-than-300000-coronavirus-cases/2254941/	21:49
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.nbcboston.com: Biogen Conference in Boston Linked to More Than 300,000 COVID-19 Cases, Science Journal Study Suggests – NBC Boston	21:49
de-facto	LjL-Matrix, worxX™	21:50
LjL	:P i'm aware	21:50
LjL	but i wasn't when i posted it!	21:50
de-facto	so indeed works :)	21:51
Arsanerit	Ah, then they are forgiven I think.	21:53
Arsanerit	I think not many people realised the need for lockdowns and travel stops yet February 2020.	21:53
de-facto	Arsanerit, https://www.covid-19-mobility.org/mobility-monitor/	21:57
de-facto	from cell phone towers	21:57
de-facto	anonymized of course	21:57
Arsanerit	huh, so little change	21:58
Arsanerit	and some places a huge plus	21:58
Arsanerit	Why are Saarland and MV so positive?	21:59
nixonix	there was lots of talk about flight restrictions in feb 2020. and apparently some suggested preventing flights from china even jan 2020. maybe it was hancock, but im not sure if i remember it right	22:01
nixonix	and other restrictions - the problem was, there had neve been lockdowns due to epidemic in the west at modern times, so many thought it wasnt realistic try to contain or even suppress it	22:02
nixonix	and wouldnt help much if "vaccines will take at least 4-5 years and may never come"	22:02
nixonix	but after awhile everybody was still doing just that	22:03
nixonix	and if i recall, biogen was warned before the conference, that it isnt a good idea. they decided to go through anyway	22:04
Brainstorm	Updates for Kuwait: +1977 cases (now 365649), +12 deaths (now 2029) since 21 hours ago — France: +29 deaths (now 111261) since 19 hours ago	22:05
Arsanerit	Mobility can mean many things though. I still go for walks and bike rides in the forest, that's as mobile as going to work but spreads the virus a whole lot less.	22:06
Arsanerit	Mobility interesting, but not the full story.	22:06
Arsanerit	We've never been under a complete 24/7 stay at home order.	22:06
nixonix	has any western country ever been, even some areas?	22:08
nixonix	i thik some have been so, that only work, grocery, pharmacy and taking the dog out were allowed. o well, "1h excercise" too or something, so i think its a no	22:09
Arsanerit	Some have had stricter orders than Germany has.	22:10
nixonix	in spain they were waving from balconies, spring 2020. but not sure what were their regulations then	22:10
Arsanerit	I think they could hardly leave at all for a while.	22:10
nixonix	does canada have the stricktest measures currently, followed by germany?	22:12
nixonix	i didnt go through all the countries, but from owid stringency index those were the top 2 i found	22:12
nixonix	in the west	22:12
nixonix	strict strickt funny how often i type that wrong. then wonder how it looks strange	22:15
nixonix	.title https://www.statnews.com/2021/06/29/biogen-fda-alzheimers-drug-approval-aduhelm-project-onyx/ https://archive.is/t5Ntn	22:21
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.statnews.com: How Biogen used an FDA back channel to win Alzheimer's drug approval	22:21
nixonix	damn it didnt open. ill see if i can get it open, a min	22:22
Arsanerit	Germany has almost no restrictions at the moment, what do you mean?	22:23
Arsanerit	I've heard that in Australia half the population is under stay at home orders, that's trict.	22:23
nixonix	.title https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/inside-project-onyx-how-biogen-used-an-fda-back-channel-to-win-approval-of-its-polarizing-alzheimers-drug/ar-AALzzpL	22:26
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.msn.com: Inside ‘Project Onyx’: How Biogen used an FDA back channel to win approval of its polarizing Alzheimer’s drug	22:26
nixonix	https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&country=FIN~USA~GBR~SWE~DNK~DEU~EST~FRA~GRC~ITA~CAN~ESP~AUT~AUS~NOR~ISR~HRV~SVN~TWN~KOR~SGP~JPN	22:30
Arsanerit	nixonix: Huh. I wonder how they measure that.	22:30
nixonix	pretty much nobody has currently measures that are strict, if you compare them to eg measures that some countries had in the winter. for whole country, that is, maybe some aus regions have currently	22:33
nixonix	bojo was claimed to say, let them bodies pile high - true or not, yet he did very strict measure soon after...	22:34
nixonix	+s	22:35
nixonix	now they have that sajid dude that wants to open everything. if the do that and it goes bad, it was his fault then... (not bojos)	22:36
nixonix	if they	22:36
nixonix	anyways uk is prob close to some kind of immunity threshold even with indian variant. not much more needed, vax or infections, and cases will stay down even with everything open	22:38
nixonix	i forgot portugal, they just went past germany, canada, taiwan and hk. stringency index	22:41
nixonix	https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1407445604029009923	23:03
Brainstorm	Updates for Zimbabwe: +1540 cases (now 56014), +33 deaths (now 1911) since 23 hours ago	23:07
Brainstorm	New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Lambda variant of Covid 'could be deadlier than Delta strain' and may dodge vaccines → https://is.gd/M00Ywf	23:15
de-facto	Peru=	23:29
de-facto	.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.26.21259487v1	23:30
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: The Emergence of SARS-CoV-2 Variant Lambda (C.37) in South America \| medRxiv	23:30
de-facto	btw is that the one that CureVac tested against?	23:31
nixonix	https://twitter.com/techreview/status/1408834229534924809	23:31
nixonix	.title https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/06/25/1027140/lab-leak-alina-chan/	23:31
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.technologyreview.com: They called it a conspiracy theory. But Alina Chan tweeted life into the idea that the virus came from a lab. \| MIT Technology Review	23:31
de-facto	i wonder about the efficacy of the other wuhan spike vaccines against C.37	23:31
Brainstorm	Updates for Algeria: +495 cases (now 141966), +10 deaths (now 3765) since a day ago	23:32
nixonix	the same spike, so i suppose quite similar reductions with them	23:32
nixonix	.title https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/06/29/1027290/gain-of-function-risky-bat-virus-engineering-links-america-to-wuhan/	23:32
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.technologyreview.com: Inside the risky bat-virus engineering that links America to Wuhan \| MIT Technology Review	23:32
de-facto	.title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.18.449051v1	23:32
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: Recovery of deleted deep sequencing data sheds more light on the early Wuhan SARS-CoV-2 epidemic \| bioRxiv	23:32
de-facto	preprint from Jesse D. Bloom	23:33
nixonix	yeah, i thought youd find it from blooms tweet :)	23:33
de-facto	oh ofc he tweeted about it too yeah	23:33
nixonix	theres another thread https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1408080693091991558	23:34
de-facto	i follow the rss feed on biorxiv, so i always get the newest pubs	23:34
nixonix	nice, im too lazy to monitor those, but paste here those that you find interesting	23:35
nixonix	there are some twitter accounts that do following of interesting stuff, so i let those do the filtering and check them from time to time	23:35
de-facto	i use tiny tiny rss filter and a irc bot :)	23:36
nixonix	.title https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-637724/v1	23:38
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.researchsquare.com: SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 Delta variant emergence and vaccine breakthrough \| Research Square	23:38
de-facto	its the announce bot on ##virology	23:38
de-facto	.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.30.21259787v1?rss=1	23:38
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: Low dose mRNA-1273 COVID-19 vaccine generates durable T cell memory and antibodies enhanced by pre-existing crossreactive T cell memory \| medRxiv	23:38
nixonix	oh yeah, theres about moderna and cd8. while moderna didnt say anything about that, it seems to happen with it too (i heard that all those approved mmrna vaccines should induce that, but it used to be anecdotal, source some healthcare officials)	23:41
nixonix	why such a low dose was used?	23:43
nixonix	was it to study waning effect of normal dose, or modernas plans to up the production by moving to lower doses?	23:44
nixonix	.title https://www.politico.eu/article/slovakia-experiment-sputnik-coronavirus-vaccine-ends/	23:44
Brainstorm	nixonix: From www.politico.eu: Slovakia’s experiment with Sputnik vaccine ends with a whimper – POLITICO	23:44
de-facto	not sure, maybe also to come closer to lower limit? i mean using 100µg how to know it that also would be possible with 25µg then, but the other way probably is inclusive	23:45

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