Brainstorm | Updates for Guatemala: +2954 cases (now 308273), +25 deaths (now 9573) since 23 hours ago — Morocco: +1279 cases (now 537253), +5 deaths (now 9341) since a day ago | 00:32 |
---|---|---|
Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Correspondence] Mass infection is not an option: we must do more to protect our young: As the third wave of the pandemic takes hold across England, the UK Government plans to further re-open the nation. Implicit in this decision is the acceptance that infections will surge, but that this does not matter because vaccines [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/5rN9N7 | 00:38 |
LjL | nixonix, also you said 89% s-gene positive, that identifies the UK variant right? (which i wonder why it is only done in some countries) | 00:42 |
nixonix | if its "s-gene negative", they use it to mean del69-70 that is only in the uk kent variant aka 1.617. those that are "s-gene positive", are those that dont have it, and it can be any of them. so it requires information whats the prevalence of others, like SA variant | 00:46 |
nixonix | here we used to have 15-20% SA variant for some reason, i think imported cases, through winter and spring. no idea how it is now. the earlier 614G variants pre uk are almost vanished | 00:47 |
nixonix | https://twitter.com/AliNouriPhD/status/1411761475719401482 | 00:48 |
nixonix | 15-20% in metropolitan area, that was. less in other country i think | 00:48 |
LjL | nixonix, since that "s-gene negative" thing came about due to the specifics of one particular PCR test, i think, then why aren't more PCR tests that are *intentionally* made to detect known variants being created? | 00:51 |
nixonix | availability, budgets, already done deals for sequencing - and it looks like countries rather keep the information so that either citizens wont be overly worried or tourism wouldnt be affected | 00:55 |
nixonix | it they think it cant be prevented, why tell the the situations, if they think it wouldnt help. seems to be the thinking here | 00:55 |
nixonix | why we loosened border control in june isntead of trying to slow down indian variants spreading? why its tightened from next monday, when its too late= | 00:56 |
nixonix | now they cant slow it down anymore. all they are doing, is helping to keep the cases down a bit. or then try to avoid the situation when they will be accused not doing a thing | 00:58 |
Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: mRNA vaccine technology moves to flu: Moderna says trial has begun → https://is.gd/UAriLr | 00:59 |
nixonix | btw greek is rocketing. while our media has only articles how awesome it is to go to crete again and how happy the restaurants are to see the tourists | 00:59 |
nixonix | cyprus rocketing too | 00:59 |
nixonix | compare the death curves to case curves too. eg in many eastern european countries theres disparity between those, like lots of deaths but strangely low case curves. looks like those reporting about deaths are more honest | 01:01 |
nixonix | belgium is a good baseline, as they have always reported deaths honestly. compare the ratios to belgiums ratios (considering delays, like for deaths to happen and when cases increasing, its among young first) | 01:01 |
nixonix | .title https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/science/coronavirus-sequences.html | 01:02 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nytimes.com: Scientist Finds Early Coronavirus Sequences That Had Been Mysteriously Deleted - The New York Times | 01:02 |
nixonix | "If mRNA-1010 is shown to be effective against the yearly plague in later-stage trials, Moderna aims to eventually bundle it with three other mRNA-based vaccines to create a yearly, one-stop shot" | 01:04 |
nixonix | "plague". but how about the manufacturing capacity, when modernas rona vaccine production hasnt been that great | 01:05 |
nixonix | hopefully there wont be increasing hypersensitivity to multiple mrna shots | 01:06 |
LjL | nixonix, eh, i think i've seen people including belgians disputing belgium's death count (maybe by saying they were counting too many, but you know, nobody ever seems to agree on how to count things, including "this person died with *cough*from COVID" apparently) | 01:07 |
LjL | oh uhm i was reading an article or something about those early sequences like the other day but i think then i got distracted | 01:08 |
LjL | and yeah greece is spiking, but so i'm afraid are spain and portugal | 01:08 |
nixonix | i compared belgians stats to their excess deaths for spring 2020, and they seemed to be dead on. france, almost the same. as was denmark and findland, but because less deaths, the accuracy of comparison wasnt great with them | 01:08 |
LjL | haven't looked much at eastern european countries, but if the deaths are spiking that's worrisome because *with vaccines*, deaths in the UK aren't spiking *much* | 01:08 |
nixonix | either belgians and french tested those died on infection diligently, or then they "over counted" just to balance the missing deaths. anyways, the result was good | 01:09 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +6 deaths (now 26387) since 23 hours ago | 01:09 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Taking Vitamin D supplements during coronavirus infection beneficial, dips levels of cytokine storm: PGIMER meta-analysis → https://is.gd/ahNunq | 01:10 |
nixonix | maybe they just figured out the excess deaths, then "adjusted" the reported numbers using it. whatever, the results were accurate | 01:10 |
LjL | well, if you assume the excess deaths are an accurate indicator | 01:11 |
nixonix | for england and wales, the excess mortality was almost 90% higher than reported deaths in the 2020 spring. they didnt count those died in senior homes or their own homes, it seems, only those died in hospitals | 01:11 |
LjL | what's up with slovakia? http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Slovakia&cumulative=no&smooth=yes they have a terribly bad vaccine uptake, yet both their cases and their deaths have gone down to practically zero. is it just "summer effect"? | 01:11 |
nixonix | ONS then found majority of missing deaths and reported about them, but still missed some part of excess deaths | 01:11 |
nixonix | slovakia tightened the restrictions despite very low cases. why? | 01:12 |
LjL | we also didn't count those who didn't die with a previous positive test, and at some points when things were *bad* we weren't testing even close to everybody... people were just told to stay home and self-medicate, and then sometimes they died | 01:12 |
nixonix | proactivitity to give more time to vaccinations? great, if it is that | 01:12 |
LjL | hmm | 01:13 |
LjL | it does highlight a recurring theme: the fact that i should find good sites with the restrictions (i kind of already did find them, but then left them there) and add code to Brainstorm to announce changes in restrictions :P | 01:13 |
nixonix | yeah i read that in italy they "over counted" too some suspected deaths, to not miss that many deaths. spring 2020 | 01:13 |
LjL | nixonix, about the suspicious rising deaths in eastern europe... is Bulgaria a good guess? | 01:15 |
LjL | meh actually it's not, tiny numbers | 01:16 |
nixonix | i havent looked at that, i know they have low 1st dose numbers - long intervals? | 01:16 |
LjL | nixonix, i mean about deaths being higher than cases would suggest | 01:16 |
LjL | you said eastern europe but didn't say where | 01:16 |
nixonix | romania has something going on, compare cases and deaths | 01:17 |
LjL | oh, right | 01:17 |
LjL | i missed it because it was just too wonky, i wasn't even looking at it | 01:17 |
nixonix | it was already in the fall 2020, many eastern european countries had clearly more deaths than cases. not all of them, but may | 01:17 |
nixonix | many | 01:17 |
LjL | i was looking at slowly rising curves but instead this one is just weird O.o | 01:17 |
LjL | nixonix, but it's possible that they are counting deaths they had failed to count before. it doesn't look like deaths are steadily rising, instead it looks like they're adding higher, but random, number of new deaths | 01:18 |
LjL | i know this has happened for a few days here in Italy | 01:18 |
nixonix | yeah its two way action now, deaths reducing with delay from cases that reduced during the last 1-2 months - and then possibly increasing cases among <30 yo | 01:18 |
LjL | Campania repeatedly failed to report their correct numbers and reported them later | 01:18 |
LjL | ("conveniently" making them a white-alert region) | 01:19 |
LjL | well, i get my second Pfizer tomorrow | 01:19 |
LjL | i'll almost certainly feel shitty for a day or two | 01:19 |
nixonix | i think they recently reduced around 50 deaths in finland, when after analyzing found covid wasnt the major cause of deaths | 01:19 |
LjL | but i damn well hope my protection against Delta will be higher than 64% | 01:19 |
nixonix | they might have both overcounting and missing deaths, here too | 01:19 |
nixonix | its often hard to say for sure, what was the major reason among old and fragile | 01:20 |
de-facto | btw just calculated the latest exponential extrapolations for the RKI data from 2021-07-07 based on a serial interval of ts = 4d it gives me R(B.1.1.7) ~ 0.88 and R(B.1.617.2) ~ 1.24 hence Delta is (B.1.617.2) / R(B.1.1.7) = 1.24 / 0.88 ~ 1.41 times as contagious or ~41% more infectious than Kent | 01:20 |
de-facto | in Germany that is | 01:20 |
nixonix | look at our flu death numbers, that used to be very low most of 2000s, then increased a lot during the last few years | 01:20 |
LjL | nixonix, in my opinion if someone is COVID-positive they should be counted, unless they died by being literally run over by a truck | 01:20 |
nixonix | now some health official claimed, the total death toll from flu, in this country of 5.5M, would be 500-2000 on average, so they really have no good idea (many think even 500 would be too much for average year, tho) | 01:21 |
LjL | nixonix, i bet this year they were very low though | 01:21 |
nixonix | but its hard with old and fragile. so just some change how to classify the deaths may have major effect to covid death numbers | 01:22 |
nixonix | they just claimed it was because of "our restrictions". bs, it was mostly because it never spreaded much in asia, and even less got outside of asia due to travel restrictions | 01:23 |
nixonix | but apparently there were a few cases even here, i just checked the flu curves (meaning influenza) | 01:23 |
nixonix | not sure if those were sequenced, pcr identified or cell culture identified, or just doctors estimated cases, though https://www.thl.fi/ttr/gen/kuvaaja/ili01.png | 01:24 |
nixonix | bunch of rhino and some common cold coronas have been around | 01:25 |
nixonix | but they dont disappear from northern hemisphere similarly at summer time, but still keep infecting with lower numbers (coronas - rhinos arent that sesonal) | 01:27 |
LjL | hm, i hadn't thought of that about influenza, honestly i had just believed the "restrictions" explanation without questioning it much | 01:28 |
LjL | but i've heard that due to lack of exposure this year, we may get a bad influenza year soon | 01:28 |
nixonix | .title https://www.who.int/influenza/resources/charts/en/ | 01:30 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.who.int: WHO | Influenza surveillance outputs | 01:30 |
nixonix | click "Comparison between countries* or groups of countries*" - and then eg eastern asia | 01:30 |
nixonix | if they havent changed that, it was from my notes | 01:31 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Cyprus: +952 cases (now 80588) since 23 hours ago | 01:34 |
nixonix | dm went to harras daszak | 01:38 |
nixonix | .title https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9710875/Peter-Daszak-removed-COVID-commission-following-bombshell-conflict-report.html | 01:38 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.dailymail.co.uk: Peter Daszak removed from UN commission investigating COVID after being exposed for Lancet letter | Daily Mail Online | 01:38 |
nixonix | .title https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9653613/British-doctor-Peter-Daszak-worked-Wuhan-scientists-secret-plan-stop-lab-leak-theory.html | 01:39 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.dailymail.co.uk: British doctor Peter Daszak worked with Wuhan scientists and had secret plan to stop lab leak theory | Daily Mail Online | 01:39 |
nixonix | it seems baric didnt sign that lancet letter, and has later distanced himself from daszak | 01:40 |
Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: Genomic Surveillance of SARS-CoV-2 in the State of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil: technical briefing: [Update information - Genomic surveillance of the state of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, in the period between April, 26th, 2021 and June, 18th, 2021] Since last update, we have additionally sequenced 1,705 SARS-CoV-2 genomes [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ea1SLX | 01:40 |
nixonix | maybe baric did nothing wrong, idk... (if daszak really collaborated with chinese - meaning the way he shouldnt have) | 01:40 |
LjL | bleh, https://www.who.int/influenza/resources/charts/en/ loads for a split second and then redirects me to https://www.who.int/home/cms-decommissioning :| | 01:41 |
nixonix | the link i meant shoudl open powerbi.com tab. but ill try to see if it still works for me (FF) | 01:42 |
nixonix | works fine. strongly mitigated firefox | 01:43 |
LjL | hmm. i'm using Firefox too | 01:47 |
LjL | i could stop it on the page it loads first by hitting Esc quickly :P | 01:48 |
LjL | but i'm not entirely sure it's the page you mean | 01:48 |
LjL | i can see maps, or graphs, or stuff | 01:48 |
LjL | well except that other pages (like the graphs one) again try to redirect me. how annoying. | 01:49 |
nixonix | did you click the link i wrote above? then after that, the tick box, eg for south asia | 01:50 |
nixonix | the tick box is black first, as all of them are, but just click it | 01:51 |
LjL | nixonix, i clicked on https://www.who.int/influenza/resources/charts/en/ and it gives me a page titled "Influenza surveillance outputs" (except if i don't stop it, it immediately redirects to the thing i showed). i don't see any checkboxes and it's not powerbi.com | 01:52 |
nixonix | click "Comparison between countries* or groups of countries*" | 01:53 |
nixonix | which is in the center section, fourth one from the top | 01:54 |
nixonix | did you | 01:56 |
nixonix | or did you not | 01:56 |
nixonix | click it | 01:56 |
* LjL-Matrix uploaded an image: (308KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/mmVLkdXcKvCMnodcYIJzhoRr/Screenshot%20from%202021-07-08%2001-55-41.png > | 01:56 | |
LjL-Matrix | This is what I get when I go to that link | 01:56 |
LjL-Matrix | so I don't know what I'm meant to click | 01:56 |
nixonix | yeah, right page. now click that link that says click "Comparison between countries* or groups of countries*" | 01:57 |
nixonix | and it should open in another tab a page with url ...powerbi.com | 01:57 |
nixonix | you are not the first one that have given that link, the same guidance, that has had problems. idk why | 01:59 |
LjL | oh okay. for some reason i was ctrl+f "comparison" and it wasn't finding it and i'm probably blind | 01:59 |
nixonix | somehow it worked out with couple other people, finally | 01:59 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Tunisia: +9823 cases (now 464914), +134 deaths (now 15735) since a day ago | 01:59 |
nixonix | ctrl-f doesnt work for me on that page | 02:00 |
nixonix | (i have no js on, though) that page that it will open does require js, tho | 02:00 |
LjL | hmm, eastern asia definitely has a few cases compared to the rest of the world, but still very few, and only one type | 02:00 |
LjL | nixonix, well the initial problem is just that it redirects me to a different page. i can "fix" that by pressing escape (or disabling js, probably, but haven't tried), but once that happens one starts not being sure they're on the right page | 02:01 |
nixonix | it just opens in another tab, even with normal left click | 02:02 |
LjL | nixonix, i mean https://www.who.int/influenza/resources/charts/en/ directly. it opens briefly and then it gets replaced with https://www.who.int/home/cms-decommissioning unless i act quickly | 02:04 |
LjL | that may not happen to you without js enabled i guess | 02:04 |
LjL | i'm not clicking on anything, i'm just pasting the url | 02:04 |
nixonix | like never click any links? | 02:05 |
LjL | ... | 02:05 |
LjL | no, i'm just saying that i have not left or right or middle clicked on https://www.who.int/influenza/resources/charts/en/ - i am simply copypasting it from irc to browser | 02:05 |
nixonix | i check the bottom of browser for what the link is for before clicking. (and usually open them in another tab, like middle mouse or ctlr-left) | 02:06 |
LjL | yes, so do i, but that's sort of irrelevant to the fact that when i open https://www.who.int/influenza/resources/charts/en/ it redirects me to a different "decommissioning" page, isn't it? :P | 02:06 |
nixonix | ah in irc yeah | 02:06 |
LjL | anyway, from those graphs, i'm not convinced that our restrictive measures had *no* impact on influenza | 02:07 |
LjL | because even if you look at europe, like i clicked south-western europe, the 2020 influenza was sharply "cut off" in March | 02:07 |
LjL | which is when it all went to shit here | 02:07 |
nixonix | yeah but the lockdowns back then were another level | 02:07 |
LjL | true | 02:07 |
nixonix | when now we had like shortly bars closed 18 | 02:07 |
LjL | well, that's just not a lockdown | 02:08 |
nixonix | might have been different in other europe... | 02:08 |
LjL | but we had more lockdowns, but there was always a huge difference: "non-essential work" was allowed | 02:08 |
LjL | in the first one, it wasn't | 02:08 |
nixonix | btw interesting things happening in australia | 02:08 |
LjL | still, like back in november or whatever, we still had to fill in a polie form to leave our homes | 02:09 |
LjL | so i'd say that's the main thing that counts as "a lockdown", that you can't leave home except for specific things | 02:09 |
LjL | otherwise the word gets diluted | 02:09 |
nixonix | they are circumventing the lockdown rules, ill see if i find links | 02:10 |
LjL | hmm, and it shows a bit in the graphs... | 02:13 |
LjL | highest peak they've had since september | 02:13 |
nixonix | "The Project panel blasted people in 'activewear' wandering around the streets shopping, claiming they are out for 'essential exercise. | 02:15 |
nixonix | .title https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9745171/The-Project-hosts-SLAM-Sydneysiders-refusing-wear-masks-Covid-lockdown.html | 02:15 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.dailymail.co.uk: The Project hosts SLAM Sydneysiders for refusing to wear masks in Covid lockdown | Daily Mail Online | 02:15 |
LjL | that's why at some point they made it the rule here that "exercise" could only be within 200 meters of your home, but that was in 2020 | 02:16 |
LjL | (and also 200m was so tight i technically couldn't even go around the block) | 02:16 |
nixonix | couple days before the latest lockdowns, the officials or govt assured, there wont be another lockdown. and this was just before it: | 02:17 |
nixonix | .title https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/australians-seem-happier-to-be-locked-down-than-vaccinated-and-it-makes-no-sense/news-story/4f0b4dbd43b555e8d556f15e8d687f6d | 02:17 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.news.com.au: Why Australians seem happier to go into lockdown than get Covid-19 vaccine | 02:17 |
nixonix | .title https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/16/queue-jumping-australians-under-40-receiving-covid-vaccine-despite-not-being-eligible | 02:18 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.theguardian.com: ‘Queue jumping’: Australians under 40 receiving Covid vaccine despite not being eligible | Health | The Guardian | 02:18 |
nixonix | i finally found the answer, how that is happening after searching through several articles another day | 02:18 |
nixonix | it seems, az isnt popular at all, because of those thrombosis concerns. and its now allowed for under 60 yo too, if gp agrees to give it | 02:19 |
nixonix | which they might not, because they are worried about liability | 02:19 |
nixonix | but queue jumpers are after mrna vaccines, not az (just very few of those under 40 want az) | 02:20 |
nixonix | and because of booking problems, those eligible under 60 yo have booked pfizer or moderna from many vaccination centers, and when one of them goes through, they will cancel the others | 02:21 |
nixonix | and they might go to waste, so they are queueing for them. those younger ppl whose turn it wouldnt be yet | 02:21 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Mandatory covid-19 vaccination for care home workers: In a profound departure from public health norms, new law will remove the right of care home staff in England to choose whether to be vaccinated against covid-19.1 The intended next step is a rapid... → https://is.gd/JpkW9d | 02:22 |
nixonix | yeah serious thing, but many things are like from monty python show | 02:23 |
LjL | uh that does not seem like a very smart way to organize the system though, letting people book at several centers | 02:23 |
nixonix | also they have used links used for those eligible, even when they havent been yet, and succesfully booked mrna vaccinations | 02:24 |
nixonix | *meant for | 02:25 |
nixonix | .title https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-22/covid19-cctv-footage-worrying-nsw-health-authorities/100231832 | 02:27 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.abc.net.au: CCTV captures 'scarily fleeting' encounter that resulted in Bondi COVID-19 cluster growing - ABC News | 02:27 |
nixonix | vaccine hesitancy in aus: https://essentialvision.com.au/?s=vaccine&searchbutton=Search | 02:28 |
LjL | "Why do people appear more willing to go into lockdown – to lose their freedom and ability to see friends and family – than they are to get vaccinated?" ← to me there seems to be a very simple, correct answer to that (although it may not be the real reason) | 02:28 |
LjL | they have Delta cases. it's more than 50. it seems like not a lot, but it will be a lot soon. i don't think it's easy to trace and contain | 02:29 |
LjL | they have vaccinated few people | 02:29 |
LjL | so until most of the population is vaccinated, a lockdown isn't a bad idea | 02:29 |
LjL | "In fact, it’s getting worse. This Delta variant is so infectious a Sydney case was caused by a “scarily fleeting” encounter between two people who briefly walked past each other at Bondi Junction Westfield." ← yall think you can trace this? | 02:30 |
nixonix | .title https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/25/opinion/coronavirus-lab.html https://archive.is/RMXYY | 02:31 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nytimes.com: Opinion | Where Did the Coronavirus Come From? What We Already Know Is Troubling. - The New York Times | 02:31 |
LjL | "Sadly, maybe Australia needs more Australians to die for us to start queuing for vaccinations instead of volunteering for lockdowns." ← this just tells me that there's always somebody not happy with a given strategy | 02:32 |
LjL | *to me*, it seems that the "zero covid" strategy has worked well for Aus and NZ so far, so why shouldn't they continue it? Delta may make it trickier, so sure, vaccinate quicker at the same time, that's obviously important | 02:32 |
nixonix | lack of information combined to lack of estimating the strength of evidence, like some dudes blog had it, i heard vs heathcare officials in the whole western world | 02:33 |
nixonix | or just some 1% controversial scientist, like byram bridle | 02:33 |
nixonix | *inability to estimate | 02:36 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +3042 cases (now 1.7 million), +2 deaths (now 17901) since 23 hours ago — China: +49 cases (now 97935) since 23 hours ago — France: +32 deaths (now 111347) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +35 deaths (now 128417) since 23 hours ago | 02:37 |
nixonix | that tracing question above, apparently they found out those ppl had no other situtations to meet, and sequencing the samples showed, it came from that situation (with good certainty) | 02:51 |
nixonix | sure that could happen, but how often it happens, is another thing. more often with 617.2 than the previous ones, for sure | 02:52 |
nixonix | btw i might have typed 617 earlier today, meaning the kent variant, not sure... | 02:53 |
nixonix | damn names just keep changing, variants, vaccines, drugs | 02:53 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Zimbabwe: +2264 cases (now 60227), +34 deaths (now 1973) since a day ago — Ghana: +306 cases (now 96708), +1 deaths (now 797) since 2 days ago | 03:01 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Algeria: +585 cases (now 143032), +11 deaths (now 3786) since a day ago | 04:04 |
Brainstorm | New from Politico: Africa: Why are EU vaccine passes discriminating against Africans? → https://is.gd/OlSgrp | 04:06 |
LjL | because... they discriminate against everyone non-EU? | 04:07 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Mexico: +8507 cases (now 2.6 million), +234 deaths (now 234192) since 20 hours ago — Thailand: +7058 cases (now 308230), +75 deaths (now 2462) since 23 hours ago — South Korea: +1275 cases (now 164028), +1 deaths (now 2034) since 23 hours ago — Papua New Guinea: +194 cases (now 17292), +4 deaths (now 177) since 11 days ago | 05:31 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Olympic village workers test positive to COVID-19 → https://is.gd/uQoqNk | 05:49 |
Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 777: SARS-CoV-2 fitness with Ron Fouchier: Ron Fouchier explains why increased transmission of SARS-CoV-2-variants has not been demonstrated, and their ability to displace ancestral variants is due to greater fitness, much like influenza virus antigenic variation leads to better fitness and replacement of previously [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/0feXA0 | 06:10 |
Brainstorm | New from EurekAlert!: A summary of myocarditis cases following COVID-19: Myocarditis-or inflammation around the heart--has been reported in some patients with COVID-19. After searching the medical literature, researchers have now summarized the results of 41 studies describing myocarditis in 42 patients with COVID-19. → https://is.gd/WbfdDx | 06:31 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +1990 cases (now 1.1 million), +2 deaths (now 25196) since a day ago — Barbados: +12 cases (now 4108) since a day ago — Germany: +22 deaths (now 91448) since 23 hours ago | 06:33 |
Brainstorm | New from EurekAlert!: Has the COVID-19 pandemic lessened bullying at school?: Students reported far higher rates of bullying at school before the COVID-19 pandemic than during the pandemic across all forms of bullying--general, physical, verbal, and social--except for cyber bullying, where differences in rates were less pronounced. The findings come [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/YpVpoQ | 06:51 |
Brainstorm | New from EurekAlert!: Study: Hospitalizations for eating disorders spike among adolescents during COVID: At one center, the number of hospital admissions among adolescents with eating disorders more than doubled during the first 12 months of the COVID-19 pandemic, according to the study that appears in a pre-publication of Pediatrics. → https://is.gd/5bbhej | 07:02 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Linda Sarsour leaves Twitter over backlash from IDF tweet → https://is.gd/JIF5G4 | 07:12 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Coronavirus death toll hits 4 million worldwide as Delta variant spreads → https://is.gd/d9nIIR | 07:23 |
Brainstorm | Updates for England, United Kingdom: +27016 cases (now 4.3 million), +28 deaths (now 112827) since a day ago — Mexico City, Mexico: +2885 cases (now 698043), +25 deaths (now 34828) since 22 hours ago — Saint Petersburg, Russia: +1906 cases (now 482055), +107 deaths (now 17082) since a day ago — Missouri, United States: +1659 cases (now 633169), +30 deaths (now 9788) since a day ago | 07:35 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Russia has offered North Korea Covid vaccines once again, amid reports that a harsh lock-down is leading to extreme hunger. → https://is.gd/6LHG5b | 07:43 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Seven days in medicine: 30 June to 6 July 2021: Covid-19England will lift most restrictions on 19 JulyMost remaining covid-19 restrictions in England will be lifted on 19 July, the prime minister announced. At a Downing Street press conference... → https://is.gd/eOX8V2 | 08:04 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Veterinary medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Canigen L4, Canine leptospirosis vaccine (inactivated), Date of authorisation: 03/07/2015, Revision: 6, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/dlbxtH | 08:24 |
Krey[m] | Virus death toll passes 4M fatalities -- https://youtu.be/sjPk37TWwAU | 08:32 |
Brainstorm | Updates for India: +45892 cases (now 30.7 million), +821 deaths (now 404765) since 15 hours ago | 08:37 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | July 08, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/0bU8tM | 09:07 |
Krey[m] | %cases czechia | 09:14 |
Brainstorm | Krey[m]: In Czechia, there have been 1.7 million confirmed cases (15.6% of the population) and 30312 deaths (1.8% of cases) as of 23 hours ago. 30.4 million tests were performed (5.5% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 5.2% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 1.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Czechia for time series data. | 09:14 |
undefined_bob | %cases germany | 09:22 |
Brainstorm | undefined_bob: In Germany, there have been 3.7 million confirmed cases (4.5% of the population) and 91448 deaths (2.4% of cases) as of 2 hours ago. 66.1 million tests were performed (5.7% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.9% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 09:23 |
jacklsw | malaysia has 8k new cases today :( | 09:23 |
undefined_bob | jacklsw: and death count? | 09:23 |
jacklsw | %cases malaysia | 09:23 |
Brainstorm | jacklsw: In Malaysia, there have been 799790 confirmed cases (2.4% of the population) and 5768 deaths (0.7% of cases) as of 19 hours ago. 15.1 million tests were performed (5.3% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 0.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Malaysia for time series data. | 09:23 |
undefined_bob | %cases uk | 09:25 |
Brainstorm | undefined_bob: In United Kingdom, there have been 5.0 million confirmed cases (7.5% of the population) and 128433 deaths (2.6% of cases) as of an hour ago. 220.1 million tests were performed (2.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 09:25 |
Krey[m] | %cases china | 09:25 |
Brainstorm | Krey[m]: In China, there have been 97953 confirmed cases (0.0% of the population) and 4742 deaths (4.8% of cases) as of an hour ago. 160.0 million tests were performed (0.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 4.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=China for time series data. | 09:25 |
Krey[m] | Hm O.o china didn't have a fatality since 23 Apr 2020 | 09:25 |
undefined_bob | ya, China dont like to have dead people? | 09:26 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: International travel changes for fully vaccinated people to be set out → https://is.gd/9Uc7bT | 09:28 |
Krey[m] | Can we please call delta variant the Johnson variant~ | 09:48 |
Krey[m] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiHMjSDjHxU | 09:48 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Dying too young: Maps show little has changed in 170 years: Why do areas with high Covid death rates match places with the worst health in Victorian times? → https://is.gd/WTJr1w | 09:49 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Armenia: +186 cases (now 225987), +5 deaths (now 4536) since 23 hours ago | 10:04 |
Brainstorm | New from WHO Euro: Football fans take part in an exciting, but safe, return to the Beautiful Game: Throughout the WHO European Region, fans have been excitedly returning to watch football after more than a year of cancelled matches and closed grounds. But with the pandemic far from over, how does it feel to be a spectator again, with many restrictions [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/hSODai | 10:09 |
SpearRaven | any latest news on Ivermectin? | 10:10 |
genera | Derek Lowe has written about | 10:10 |
SpearRaven | ok thanks | 10:11 |
SpearRaven | I know TrialSite News is a good source on YouTube regarding it | 10:12 |
SpearRaven | looks like Ivermectin can be good to reduce the severity of it if you get it | 10:14 |
Brainstorm | Updates for N. Cyprus: +97 cases (now 8601) since 23 hours ago | 10:29 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Can we stretch existing Covid vaccines to inoculate more people? Experts are divided: Is the world is using more Covid vaccine than it needs to on each person immunized, depriving people in the queue of a chance to be protected? Experts are divided. → https://is.gd/eeDmw4 | 10:40 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Sydney sees worst pandemic day of 2021 two weeks into lockdown → https://is.gd/QqDn9m | 10:51 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Israel: +306 cases (now 844684) since 15 hours ago | 11:06 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Spectators to face Olympic ban as Tokyo declares coronavirus emergency-report → https://is.gd/eaRJtw | 11:12 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Pandemic influenza vaccine H5N1 AstraZeneca (previously Pandemic influenza vaccine H5N1 Medimmune), pandemic influenza vaccine (H5N1) (live attenuated, nasal), Influenza, Human, Date of authorisation: 20/05/2016, Revision: 8, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/FSleZi | 11:23 |
Krey[m] | What is the healthy amount of sugar per day/week ? | 11:35 |
Krey[m] | * Krey is currently taking small amount of sugar after food as his glucose levels are around 5.5 mmol/L and after that it gets to around 7.2 mmol/L which feels like helping digestion and avoiding feeling tired after a meal | 11:35 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Veklury, remdesivir, Coronavirus Infections, Date of authorisation: 03/07/2020, Revision: 5, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/wZa4ty | 11:44 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Document: Mandate, objectives and rules of procedure of the COVID-19 EMA pandemic Task Force (COVID-ETF) → https://is.gd/zxYYqh | 11:55 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: General: COVID-19: latest updates → https://is.gd/ejWHzQ | 12:06 |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Consiglio dei Ministri n. 27 ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/consiglio-dei-ministri-n-27/17421 ) | 12:35 | |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Convocazione del Consiglio dei Ministri n. 27 ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/convocazione-del-consiglio-dei-ministri-n-27/17423 ) | 12:35 | |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Covid-19: Oman suspends flights from 24 countries, including India, Pakistan → https://is.gd/euN465 | 13:30 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +8868 cases (now 808658), +135 deaths (now 5903) since 23 hours ago — Malta: +55 cases (now 30755) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +651 cases (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 13:35 |
Brainstorm | New from Politico: Aviation: Fully vaccinated UK residents to be allowed to return to England quarantine-free → https://is.gd/G4AqmA | 13:41 |
* martini_man[m] uploaded an image: (729KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/nerdsin.space/3d7542bf8fc745be49be698cdf646fbdd296f440/image.png > | 13:59 | |
Brainstorm | Updates for Indonesia: +38391 cases (now 2.4 million), +852 deaths (now 63760) since a day ago — Nepal: +1218 cases (now 651380), +29 deaths (now 9320) since a day ago | 14:00 |
Brainstorm | New from ECDC: COVID-19 in children and the role of school settings in transmission - second update: The aim of this document is to provide an update on the knowledge surrounding the role of children in the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and the role of schools in the COVID-19 pandemic, focusing in particular on the experience in EU/EEA countries since the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/PftfBy | 14:12 |
* martini_man[m] uploaded an image: (3925KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/nerdsin.space/675a2df2d3c82afcd5d60da5ae4b8df2090594a9/image.png > | 14:24 | |
Brainstorm | Updates for Libya: +1384 cases (now 199526), +4 deaths (now 3227) since a day ago — Senegal: +354 cases (now 44790), +1 deaths (now 1184) since 22 hours ago — Switzerland: +2 deaths (now 10898) since 22 hours ago | 14:31 |
Brainstorm | New from ECDC: ECDC: Data for the maps in support of the Council Recommendation on a coordinated approach to the restriction of free movement in response to the COVID-19 pandemic in the EU/EEA → https://is.gd/o2qmzJ | 14:34 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: Biden renews vaccines push as cases and deaths rise among unvaccinated people: President Joe Biden has outlined the ways his team is pushing to get more Americans vaccinated, as the highly contagious delta variant spreads and is now causing half of all new SARS-CoV-2 infections... → https://is.gd/dwCftN | 14:44 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Two weeks into lockdown, Sydney has its worst day for virus cases this year → https://is.gd/C0R2T2 | 14:55 |
Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Closing the vaccine hesitancy gap: What tactics and strategies should be used to address COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy? The post first appeared on Science-Based Medicine . → https://is.gd/567VC5 | 15:06 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Iran: +23391 cases (now 3.3 million), +136 deaths (now 85397) since a day ago — Fiji: +721 cases (now 8661), +6 deaths (now 48) since a day ago | 15:08 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Olympics bans spectators after Tokyo declares COVID-19 emergency → https://is.gd/kphGoP | 15:49 |
Brainstorm | New from Francois Balloux: @BallouxFrancois: R to @BallouxFrancois: I should probably have disclosed that it took me a while to reach this position over the course of the pandemic. In September 2020, I co-signed a 'lobbying 'letter to the UK PM. With the benefit of hindsight, I recognise this was a [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/pQfCpG | 16:00 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +11651 cases (now 989219), +199 deaths (now 15792) since 23 hours ago — Iraq: +9189 cases (now 1.4 million), +31 deaths (now 17444) since 23 hours ago — Faroe Is.: +14 cases (now 817) since a day ago — Iceland: +11 cases (now 6675) since 2 days ago | 16:06 |
Raf[m] | <martini_man[m] "image.png"> Riddled with logical fallacies | 16:07 |
joerg | ?? | 16:24 |
Raf[m] | martini_man posted an image explaining why they wouldn't be getting a covid vaccine, but most of them are logical fallacies | 16:35 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Fluenz Tetra, influenza vaccine (live attenuated, nasal), Influenza, Human, Date of authorisation: 04/12/2013, Revision: 20, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/WaYEgs | 16:44 |
Brainstorm | New from Shane Crotty: @profshanecrotty: Almost all COVID-19 deaths and hospitalizations in America now are among unvaccinated people. COVID vaccines work, and they work incredibly well. → https://is.gd/eGM9uD | 16:55 |
Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Prevention and Treatment With Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromycin of Acute Respiratory Syndrome Induced by COVID-19 → https://is.gd/3MxSnx | 17:05 |
Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Phase 1 Intranasal Parainfluenza Virus Type 5-SARS CoV-2 S Vaccine in Healthy Adults → https://is.gd/LSWEEZ | 17:16 |
Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Recovery of Respiratory System in COVID-19 Patients → https://is.gd/fctxP0 | 17:28 |
Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): A Different Use of The Aerosol Box in COVID-19 Patients; Internal Jugular Vein Cannulation → https://is.gd/Nc7PTA | 17:38 |
Win7ine | hello | 17:44 |
de-facto | hey Win7ine how is it going? | 17:58 |
Win7ine | hi de-facto, all good thanks, u? | 18:02 |
Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: An update on the idea of anti-androgen therapy for the coronavirus. The story has become. . .complicated.https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/07/08/an-update-on-anti-androgen-therapy-for-the-coronavirus → https://is.gd/eUj1oM | 18:10 |
de-facto | im ok thanks | 18:11 |
de-facto | hoping infections wont rise too quickly, proportion of Delta may be at least 3 out of 5 infections already in Germany | 18:14 |
Win7ine | it is only a matter of time and delta will reach 100% of new infections no doubt, question is what comes after delta. | 18:16 |
Win7ine | As long as there are infections, there will be mutations | 18:17 |
de-facto | yeah some say mutants like Lambda | 18:25 |
de-facto | the one in Peru C.37 | 18:25 |
de-facto | but it seems its not as fit as Delta | 18:25 |
de-facto | stays below 1% in Germany so far | 18:25 |
de-facto | but may be more immune evasive, so maybe that changes when there is more selection by almost fully vaccinated population? | 18:26 |
de-facto | yet then reproduction will be even less, so maybe it just will vanish? | 18:26 |
trbp | epsilon should follow delta | 18:27 |
trbp | was not epsilon next in greek alphabet? | 18:27 |
trbp | de-facto: numbers are patient and do not know what they are (mis)used for ;) | 18:28 |
trbp | de-facto: who grants the german numbers are true? | 18:28 |
de-facto | where is epsilon? | 18:29 |
trbp | that was just an answer to the question what follows delta | 18:29 |
de-facto | trbp, RKI puts efforts into trying to do representative sampling, afaik 10-20% of tests are sequenced or such | 18:29 |
de-facto | haha yeah but there are gaps, Alpha is dominated by Delta now | 18:29 |
trbp | because that was afaik the commitment internationally made about naming | 18:29 |
de-facto | Beta (SA) and Gamma (BR) stays low, more immune evasive but not fit enough to compete with the much more contagious Delta | 18:30 |
de-facto | they are still there though but in low 1% range | 18:30 |
de-facto | in Germany | 18:30 |
trbp | de-facto: sequencing is a nice thing :) though we are aware that going for more than just markers would put the cost immensly up?! ;) | 18:30 |
trbp | and of course any higher number participating tests would have to wait exponentially longer for any result | 18:32 |
trbp | but yeah time will tell us where that all goes to ;) | 18:32 |
de-facto | afaik sequencing can be done massively parallel | 18:32 |
trbp | sure at a degree with massively costintensive almost handmade setups | 18:33 |
de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/aacyToT https://i.imgur.com/gCen7Yn.jpeg "COVID Germany: SARS-CoV-2-VoCs Evolution in 2021" src: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/DESH/Bericht_VOC_2021-07-07.pdf?__blob=publicationFile | 18:33 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: SARS-CoV-2-VoCs Evolution in 2021 - Album on Imgur | 18:33 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: SARS-CoV-2-VoCs Evolution in 2021 - Album on Imgur | 18:33 |
de-facto | in Germany government pays the labs for each sequence | 18:33 |
de-facto | i think its a good deal for them, they make profit from it i guess | 18:34 |
trbp | sure as any goverment has a neverending bankaccount ;) | 18:34 |
de-facto | you mean i pay for it with my bank account | 18:34 |
de-facto | but its important, they need to know for appropriate strategy | 18:35 |
de-facto | i am glad they established this surveillance so quickly, sequencing was not done before, then started in 2021 | 18:35 |
de-facto | in Germany | 18:35 |
de-facto | UK did sequencing before | 18:35 |
trbp | whatever first we need open borders for travelling before the economy goes down, nice that the numbers congruently went down before ;) | 18:37 |
trbp | just in time to the european football championship ;) | 18:37 |
de-facto | we need to close borders in order to prevent import and enforce quarantine for all travelers | 18:37 |
de-facto | but the government does the opposite | 18:38 |
de-facto | they just opened traveling from high incidence areas, fully vaccinated allowed to travel without test or quarantine | 18:38 |
de-facto | as if things like vaccine breakthrough would not exist | 18:38 |
trbp | well that is life | 18:39 |
trbp | you ain't get always what you want | 18:39 |
trbp | on all sides | 18:39 |
de-facto | yeah i just dont want cases to rise again, but they will do that | 18:39 |
trbp | dumbness fed to the people including their leaders ends up in dumbness overall... | 18:39 |
de-facto | so oh well, we have to deal with it | 18:39 |
de-facto | just have to make the best out of it, blaming does not really help | 18:40 |
trbp | de-facto: the numbers will rise and fall, like they did before just they are right now in the focus | 18:40 |
trbp | de-facto: exactly you do best what you think is with the actual input you get | 18:41 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +31977 cases (now 5.0 million) since 16 hours ago — Italy: +1391 cases (now 4.3 million), +13 deaths (now 127731) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +14 deaths (now 26401) since 17 hours ago | 18:41 |
trbp | like everybody does... or at least try to do | 18:41 |
de-facto | well yeah we just passed the minimum in Germany, so things will become more tense from now on again, unfortunately | 18:41 |
de-facto | still on very low level, but i fear we will see R~1-1.3 soon | 18:41 |
de-facto | yeah we will be fine, its just annoying sometimes | 18:43 |
jacklsw | and then UK said they don't need masks | 18:46 |
de-facto | well they said everyone should act responsible and wear masks in gatherings and crowded places | 18:46 |
de-facto | but afaik not mandatory (at some point, not sure at what date they planned it) | 18:47 |
jacklsw | tennis grand slam in wimbledon, london | 18:47 |
jacklsw | hardly any spectator wearing mask | 18:47 |
de-facto | yeah yelling as loud as possible without masks, thats how to produce aerosol | 18:48 |
LjL | Italy: +1391 cases ← i think this is our record for this wave :\ | 18:52 |
Brainstorm | New from ScienceNews: How your DNA may affect whether you get COVID-19 or become gravely ill: A study of 45,000 people links 13 genetic variants to higher COVID-19 risks, including a link between blood type and infection and a newfound tie between FOXP4 and severe disease. → https://is.gd/dwGrDa | 19:03 |
Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Fitness Trackers Reveal COVID's Long-Term Effects: A new study finds wearable fitness trackers such as Fitbits or the Apple Watch can help track people's recovery from COVID-19 and they're revealing long-term issues. → https://is.gd/Gu2xtK | 19:14 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Myanmar: +4132 cases (now 180055), +51 deaths (now 3621) since 20 hours ago | 19:37 |
Brainstorm | New from Francois Balloux: @BallouxFrancois: R to @BallouxFrancois: Though,I wouldn't consider signing any similar letter, irrespective of its content. On the upside, it made me realise I may have learnt something over the pandemic, despite essentially every day over the last 18 months having felt like a Sunday with a nasty hangover.8/ → https://is.gd/9vDGXJ | 20:37 |
de-facto | hmm Netherlands also got a super steep rise of infections | 20:45 |
de-facto | R~2 or such wtf | 20:46 |
de-facto | http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Spain;Netherlands;Belgium;Portugal;Greece;Georgia;Denmark;Ireland;Luxembourg&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&miscType=Reff | 20:50 |
de-facto | all of them are at the begin of a very steep spike there | 20:51 |
de-facto | not good at all :/ | 20:51 |
de-facto | urgent need for more containment NOW | 20:52 |
IndoAnon | ... | 20:54 |
de-facto | δ | 20:54 |
IndoAnon | I wonder why this phenomenon seems to be replicable across continent | 20:55 |
de-facto | because the properties emerge from 1) the Delta variant (being much more contagious) and 2) human psychology, making the same mistakes again and again | 20:56 |
de-facto | so if those properties are re-occurring also the effect resulting from it is re-occurring | 20:56 |
IndoAnon | On the 2nd point, yeah... we're doomed | 20:56 |
de-facto | in an ideal world we would learn from mistakes | 20:57 |
de-facto | but yeah, its just the same over and over again, importing mutant, spreading it during the summer via tourism, everyone acting surprised when this results into a lockdown | 20:58 |
IndoAnon | In the next few years... | 20:59 |
de-facto | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03677-y | 20:59 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nature.com: Spread of a SARS-CoV-2 variant through Europe in the summer of 2020 | Nature | 20:59 |
IndoAnon | Considering 18 months has elapsed from pandemic, there's no hope that conventional tourism would recover | 21:00 |
de-facto | i think its important to risk making mistakes, but its even more important to learn from analyzing the reuslts | 21:00 |
de-facto | *results | 21:00 |
IndoAnon | Uh, it seems you slipped deutsch phrase there | 21:01 |
de-facto | i mean the mistake was made already at the very begin, allowing the spread from Wuhan via travelers, some claim it should have been obvious before allowing it, but ok it was crystal clear after the new infection chains began to expand at the destination of the imports | 21:03 |
de-facto | so given we know this by now, why is it still tolerated more than 1 1/2 years later? | 21:04 |
IndoAnon | While tourism has a great multiplier effect on country's economy. That means nothing if the country's main engine had to be stopped, or most likely, slowed down | 21:04 |
IndoAnon | de-facto: Too much "hope" being spread. On 4chan/pol/cvg, we called it hopium | 21:05 |
de-facto | there is no hope, only pessimists have a chance to get this under control | 21:06 |
de-facto | when a country leadership was like "yeah we have it under control, we are through" it was a certain sign of a HUGE wave to begin | 21:06 |
de-facto | always the same everywhere | 21:07 |
de-facto | reminder: that was how the Delta started to come up | 21:07 |
IndoAnon | >some claim it should have been obvious before allowing it, but ok it was crystal clear after the new infection chains began to expand at the destination of the imports< I agree. CN long-distance bus and airplane travel basically has the same characteristics. But, government and IATA members seems to took this issue half heartedly | 21:08 |
de-facto | if there are two alternatives: 1) being over-pessimistic potentially risking too many restrictions from containment 2) being over-optimistic potentially risking not enough containment because hoping for getting away with less restrictions which of those two scenarios potentially got more expensive outcome if assumptions turn out to be incorrect? | 21:10 |
IndoAnon | Unfortunately, that's the theme that government spread through mass media, despite knowing the obvius drawbacks. | 21:10 |
IndoAnon | It's a balancing act. We just need to tread everything carefully, and examine the plus and minus of uublxc policy | 21:11 |
de-facto | 1) maybe too much containment is a bit more expensive then just enough containment, but it does not risk a huge peak in infections, it can be adjusted in small steps without risking lost of control | 21:12 |
IndoAnon | *public, Government should not make much promise like "returning to normalcy" and stuff. Because, people would drop their guard | 21:12 |
de-facto | 1) if containment is not enough and incidence runs out of control its too late, no small adjustments possible anymore, it will result in a huge wave and much more strict containment is required to bring it down to levels comparable to the start | 21:13 |
IndoAnon | True, the hardlockdown is costly. It risks supply chain breakdown and economic fallout. | 21:13 |
de-facto | 2) if containment is not enough ... | 21:13 |
de-facto | what i mean is that we approach approximating the optimal level of containment from the wrong (thus expensive) side | 21:15 |
IndoAnon | hmm, the "expensive" is relative, anon | 21:17 |
de-facto | it never should come to a lockdown, because that is the sign of failed containment strategy | 21:18 |
de-facto | hence the assumptions for the containment were wrong | 21:18 |
de-facto | thus have to be adjusted in order to avoid repetition | 21:18 |
IndoAnon | hmm, you mean we should start from no-intervention? | 21:19 |
mrdata | failed containment stemmed from 'no evidence of asymptomatic transmission' early on, when that had not been studied | 21:19 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Delta variant is 'Covid-19 on steroids,' expert says, with cases increasing in nearly half of US states → https://is.gd/AvcUZ1 | 21:19 |
de-facto | yes true | 21:20 |
de-facto | but its known by now, so why are fully vaccinated allowed to travel without testing or quarantine? | 21:20 |
mrdata | they do get tested | 21:20 |
mrdata | my sister went to see the volcano in iceland; she and her partner were fully vaccinated but had a test on entry and on exit from iceland | 21:21 |
de-facto | i wish, but afaik the assumption for high incidence traveling is no quarantine for tested == recovered == vaccinated (which just is not true) | 21:21 |
mrdata | they had to isolate while their tests results were pending | 21:21 |
de-facto | that is how it should be done | 21:22 |
IndoAnon | In long-term, losing sizeable portion of medical staff is costly. Because they supposedly reduce the gdp spent on Healthcare by recognizing health problems early on. And, it cost money to trained doctor and nurses | 21:22 |
de-facto | well tbh both tested and quarantined in my opinion would be required to allow international traveling, even for fully vaccinated | 21:24 |
IndoAnon | It's hard to find the correct set of policy, which maximize health and minimize economic lost | 21:24 |
de-facto | minimizing economic lost is done by maximizing health | 21:25 |
de-facto | countries with very aggressive containment did best in terms of economic by far | 21:25 |
de-facto | those that reacted and hesitated had to pay the highest price, both economically and also in terms of health and fatalities | 21:26 |
de-facto | and i fear with long covid also still have to deal with it for long time | 21:27 |
de-facto | .title http://metrics.covid19-analysis.org/ | 21:29 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Mozambique: +1806 cases (now 84922), +5 deaths (now 939) since 23 hours ago — Morocco: +1336 cases (now 538589), +5 deaths (now 9346) since 20 hours ago | 21:29 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From metrics.covid19-analysis.org: COVID-19 Spread Mapper | 21:29 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Americans will need masks indoors as U.S. heads for ‘dangerous fall’ with surge in delta Covid cases → https://is.gd/Fcd8oU | 21:30 |
de-facto | bigest increase in reproduction in Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Greece | 21:35 |
de-facto | starting at low level ok, but then R>2 that is horrible | 21:35 |
de-facto | R=2 would double each 4 days | 21:36 |
de-facto | that is alarming, urgent need for containment | 21:36 |
de-facto | government need to wake up, its their responsibility to make the population aware and implement containment | 21:38 |
de-facto | the sooner the better because then its less expensive | 21:38 |
de-facto | underestimating the infectiousness of Delta was exactly the mistake of the Indian government, it should not be repeated | 21:45 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Unvaccinated tourists won't be welcome in Canada for 'quite a while,' PM Trudeau says → https://is.gd/qbR47i | 22:02 |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Comunicato stampa del Consiglio dei Ministri n. 27 ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/comunicato-stampa-del-consiglio-dei-ministri-n-27/17424 ) | 22:05 | |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Amber list quarantine for fully vaccinated to end on 19 July → https://is.gd/S5E57M | 22:12 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Algeria: +620 cases (now 143652), +12 deaths (now 3798) since 18 hours ago — Spain: +17317 cases (now 3.9 million), +28 deaths (now 80997) since a day ago | 22:31 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Unvaccinated Fiji public servants told they will be sacked → https://is.gd/PdLVNU | 22:43 |
rpifan | so are we gonna have another lockdown o rnot | 22:46 |
rpifan | im bored of all this freedom | 22:46 |
rpifan | having the ausgangsperre was honestly nice | 22:46 |
LjL | Are you only here to root for the worst outcome or what? | 22:54 |
LjL | Anyway, how common is hoarseness as an initial presentation for COVID? "Asking for a friend" (actually yes really) | 22:54 |
de-facto | if its at that location a quicktest may help for getting more info? | 22:59 |
de-facto | or also a proper PCR | 23:00 |
de-facto | how common? how would you distinguish it from any other cause like hay-fever or such? | 23:00 |
twomoon | minimizing economic lost is done by maximizing health. i don't know if i agree with this de-facto | 23:05 |
twomoon | but i'm out of gas these days to debate you | 23:05 |
de-facto | what i meant is that a healthcare crisis with associated lockdown etc is the most expensive scenario, hence preventing infections to rise that far out of control can avoid those astronomic high costs | 23:11 |
de-facto | we need smarter more targeted solutions to prevent the necessity of a generic lockdown, yet it worries me that we see that high R numbers in some countries right now | 23:14 |
Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: COVID-19 Scan for Jul 08, 2021: US COVID vaccination program Heart rate and long COVID → https://is.gd/lKv9B4 | 23:15 |
de-facto | if the assumption holds that conditions leading to such high R numbers remain also for higher incidence it means its already out of control, hence no targeted or smart containment is in place to control it | 23:16 |
IndoAnon | de-facto: Truthfully, we need smarter society. Those who doesn't even need to be reminded through legacy media | 23:17 |
de-facto | i dont like lockdowns, they are the confirmation of a failed containment, the inability to control it with smart solutions | 23:17 |
IndoAnon | Remote working is pretty good solution | 23:18 |
IndoAnon | I've been thinking all this time. What separated me and those who have tested positive | 23:20 |
LjL | de-facto: well I'm afraid I can answer myself, he just learned that someone he met a week ago got it, and had a sore throat too | 23:20 |
LjL | So well, fuck | 23:20 |
de-facto | yeah hmm, he should get tested | 23:21 |
de-facto | but a sore throat alone is common enough that it cant replace a proper test | 23:21 |
de-facto | i had sore throat several times, went for a test and it was negative | 23:22 |
de-facto | i just did not really care before, but right now with the possibility of it being COVID i just go for a test, to get the question mark out of my head | 23:22 |
IndoAnon | I think it's because I follow all the health and safety protocol, wear mask all the time in public (except when I need to snacked/ate in the car), rarely went to office except when mandated by higher-ups, re-heat takeouts, and kept my phone clean | 23:23 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Study shows booster shot after 6 to 12 months likely to provide best protection from COVID-19, Pfizer says → https://is.gd/5OfGzB | 23:26 |
IndoAnon | Also, moped the floor with disinfectant as I went to bathroom after going out. Shampood and wash my body everytime I went outside. Then washed the used clothes | 23:26 |
IndoAnon | How about you guys? I wonder whether you washed your hoodie/coat after going outside... | 23:28 |
LjL | de-facto: I told him to get a doctor, get a PCR, and ask if taking aspirin would be okay because I've heard a couple of doctors here saying they've experimented successfully with early aspirin (or another nsaid) as a treatment, not just to feel better but to actually lower hospitalization rates, and it sounded like this is not commonly done here, and our hospitalization/death rates have always been bad | 23:28 |
de-facto | IndoAnon, tbh i only wash hands and avoid touching face when outdoors, i sanitize things like keyboard and door handles | 23:30 |
de-facto | i even dont touch streetlight knobs etc | 23:30 |
de-facto | but i dont do anything special with clothes or such | 23:31 |
de-facto | i dont walk with street shoes into the flat | 23:31 |
de-facto | LjL, i am not sure, i think Aspirin is good, but i dont know enough to tell if it really helps with COVID | 23:32 |
de-facto | it got anti-inflammatory properties, it also got anti-coagulative properties | 23:32 |
IndoAnon | de-facto: There's nothing special with my soap nor floor "disinfectant" too. Also, I walked barefoot in my flat before putting my sandals/shoes into shoe cabinet. | 23:34 |
IndoAnon | Ah, and I haven't set my feet on hospital for like 1.5 years | 23:36 |
de-facto | i think normal soap is just fine, more importantly is washing with warm water and for like 30s or such | 23:36 |
de-facto | i think surface contamination is a low contribution, only becomes relevant when all other transmission paths are eliminated | 23:37 |
de-facto | i guess main transmission is aerosol and droplets | 23:37 |
de-facto | correction: i know | 23:37 |
de-facto | its not a guess anymore | 23:37 |
IndoAnon | lel... also, most of the cases that I have heard in rural regions, it's because they visited local clinic/hospital... | 23:39 |
IndoAnon | Ugh | 23:41 |
IndoAnon | In 1st degree relationship, I lost few people due to that... catching corona on smol hospital | 23:42 |
LjL | de-facto: well, I told him to ask a doctor before taking it, i shouldnt be giving direct medical advice but if i suspect there is an easy way to improve chances...and sure he might not even have covid, but in that case I'm sure an aspirin won't hurt | 23:44 |
de-facto | drink black tea | 23:45 |
de-facto | not much but constantly for long times | 23:45 |
de-facto | in small sips, may inactivate those virions that currently are on mucus surfaces such as throat | 23:46 |
de-facto | no cure, but maybe buy the immune reaction a bit of time | 23:46 |
de-facto | or green tea (more stomach friendly) | 23:46 |
de-facto | but black tea is more potent | 23:46 |
de-facto | gargling with alcoholic mouth washes frequently | 23:47 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: Fauci Says Current Vaccines Will Stand Up To The Delta Variant: All the data so far show the vaccines are highly effective at preventing serious disease or hospitalization, Dr. Anthony Fauci said. Vaccination is also imperative to preventing mutations, he added. → https://is.gd/ZQbvze | 23:47 |
de-facto | also may kill some virions (but again only those on the surface, cant do anything against those that currently replicate incide cells) | 23:47 |
de-facto | hence repeat frequently | 23:47 |
de-facto | btw black/green tea also helps with sore throat in general | 23:49 |
de-facto | my newest discovery "Gunpowder" Green Tea, its really yummy | 23:55 |
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