| LjL | i'm pretty sure that if it's true that platforms haven't done enough to silence those bad actors as it claims there, they've also gone a bit too far sometimes blocking harmless content | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | youtubers have started using codewords for "COVID" because if they say "COVID" they get instantly demonetized | 00:00 |
| de-facto | the better the cohesion in a society the less of problem it will have with COVID | 00:04 |
| LjL | scary both ways | 00:05 |
| de-facto | thats what i meant, its a target for misinfo strategies | 00:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Monaco: +18 cases (now 2680) since a day ago | 00:08 |
| himesama | i wonder if it boils down to education | 00:30 |
| LjL | %title https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00340-4 | 00:49 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.nature.com: Variant-proof vaccines — invest now for the next pandemic | 00:49 |
| de-facto | which epitope would be so conserved in variants that it could not evade antibody selection? | 00:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: British ministers decide against mass vaccination for teens → https://is.gd/zSmyrz | 00:55 |
| de-facto | "In evolutionary terms, SARS-CoV-2 is an ‘evasion-light’ pathogen. It has not had to acquire an armamentarium of molecular features to outwit immune responses in general and neutralizing antibodies in particular. This is because it currently transmits from one person to another before immune responses have developed — and, in many cases, before disease symptoms are noted." | 01:02 |
| de-facto | well isnt that about to change if we get more and more reinfections and breakthroughs? | 01:03 |
| de-facto | wouldn't it be a function of seroprevalence in a population if its evasion-light or evasion-competent? | 01:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Turkey: +7666 cases (now 5.5 million), +38 deaths (now 50488) since 18 hours ago — Malawi: +789 cases (now 43043), +12 deaths (now 1325) since a day ago | 01:10 |
| himesama | why does a virus need more than evasion light | 01:31 |
| LjL | i think when HIV got to us it was probably already fairly "evasion-competent" | 01:32 |
| LjL | so i'm not sure SARS-COV-2 will dramatically change for the worse if we don't kill it now with fire | 01:32 |
| LjL | at least i hope not | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for British Virgin Islands: +6 deaths (now 14) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +3 deaths (now 26492) since 22 hours ago | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Britain backs slew of 'long COVID' research studies → https://is.gd/ky1xN0 | 01:46 |
| woodhardigan[m] | To anyone that is suffering post-COVID and followed my posts regarding my 8 (now 9 months) symptoms. I did a bunch of tests and screening this week. All clean . One of my Doctors, that has been following it up with me, is seeing signs of MCAS as I was suspecting. I will be doing some further blood work next week to confirm the condition. I'm already on low-histamine diet and taking some supplementation. Seeing great improvement so | 02:01 |
| woodhardigan[m] | far, as it has cut out my last crisis. I recommend people that got the shot to also have a look at it: https://www.drtaniadempsey.com/post/clinical-manifestations-of-mast-cell-activation-syndrome-by-organ-systems | 02:01 |
| himesama | what is the gist of a low histamine diet | 02:11 |
| himesama | what seemed to help | 02:12 |
| himesama | why that got the shot | 02:14 |
| himesama | prostaglandin d2? chromogranin a? tryptase? | 02:15 |
| woodhardigan[m] | Histamine Liberators (some): Tomatoes, Walnuts, Bananas, Seafood, Citrus Fruits. Sadly a big part of my previous daily diet | 02:18 |
| -Bridgestorm- 🏠 Linog! Lindol! Earthquake! 5.4 Mb tremor, registered by alomax, with 64 reports, 4 early, occurred 8 minutes ago (00:09:36 UTC), during daytime, Pondaguitan, Philippines (6.47, 126.36) ± 1 km, ↓76 km likely felt 200 km away (in Lupon…) by 428400 people (alomax.free.fr) | 02:18 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada surpasses United States in percentage of population fully vaccinated. → https://is.gd/dqQPec | 02:18 |
| woodhardigan[m] | I'm taking lots of Vitamin C and Ginger. I almost replaced water for ginger since I had crazy stomach pains. It put me back into eating in 1 day. I really does miracles. Ginger is a great histamine blocker and exhibits the highest anti-allergic and inflammatory activity by inhibited β-hexosaminidase | 02:23 |
| woodhardigan[m] | * I'm taking lots of Vitamin C and Ginger. I almost replaced water for ginger since I had crazy stomach pains. It put me back into eating in 1 day. It really does miracles. Ginger is a great histamine blocker and exhibits the highest anti-allergic and inflammatory activity by inhibited β-hexosaminidase | 02:24 |
| woodhardigan[m] | My doctor mentioned that some individuals that got the shots and had the condition already, post-virus, got worse. It is not something common tho, and he wasn't very sure about what causes this post-vaccine. But should be taken under consideration if you feel pain, and have weird inflammatory responses in the body after the shot | 02:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kazakhstan: +4280 cases (now 511202) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +8378 cases (now 1.8 million) since 21 hours ago — France: +13 deaths (now 111561) since 21 hours ago — Germany: +1199 cases (now 3.8 million) since 11 hours ago | 02:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: UN report highlights dramatic worsening of world hunger in the pandemic year, a multi-agency report estimates that around a tenth of the global population – up to 811 million people – were undernourished last year → https://is.gd/kXPT32 | 02:39 |
| nana_ | mmm | 02:57 |
| nana_ | why do i not want to 'go look' | 03:00 |
| LjL | what at? | 03:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +761 cases (now 31.1 million) since 18 hours ago | 03:02 |
| nana_ | 1 hour ago | 03:03 |
| LjL | i assume if you don't want to look no one's forcing you | 03:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada's vaccination rate overtakes US → https://is.gd/Ye40Ab | 03:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mauritania: +210 cases (now 22508) since 23 hours ago | 03:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canadian Border Expected to Reopen Next Month → https://is.gd/HR1Bx8 | 03:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: France: Thousands protest against vaccination, COVID passes - Thousands of people marched around France to protest mandatory vaccinations for health care workers and COVID-19 passes that will be required to enter restaurants and other venues → https://is.gd/y7gxFe | 04:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Rwanda: +1997 cases (now 54549), +12 deaths (now 638) since a day ago | 04:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Thailand: +11397 cases (now 403386), +101 deaths (now 3341) since a day ago — Netherlands: +8295 cases (now 1.8 million) since 21 hours ago — France: +12 deaths (now 111565) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +229 cases (now 1.4 million) since 21 hours ago | 05:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The Pandemic Has a New Epicenter: Indonesia → https://is.gd/4d6enN | 05:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Facebook says it should not be blamed for US failing to meet vaccine goals → https://is.gd/4VWw2s | 05:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 781: My genome is left to tell the tale: The Team with Invincible Values discusses whether dogs or cats passively carry SARS-CoV-2 on hair and foot pads, maternal to fetal transfer of antibodies in infected or vaccinated pregnant women, and evidence that retroviruses infected cetaceans before and after they moved [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GkIdeM | 06:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Vietnam: +3098 cases (now 51002) since 3 hours ago | 06:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: All adults in Britain offered a Covid-19 shot ahead of Monday reopening → https://is.gd/Eqf02m | 06:47 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for England, United Kingdom: +50250 cases (now 4.7 million), +35 deaths (now 113139) since a day ago — Noord-Brabant, Netherlands: +1993 cases (now 286651) since a day ago — Tokyo, Japan: +1410 cases (now 188176), +1 deaths (now 2252) since a day ago — Northern Ireland, United Kingdom: +1402 cases (now 138009), +2 deaths (now 2161) since a day ago | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vietnam puts southern region in lockdown as surge grows → https://is.gd/OrSrkB | 08:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +41157 cases (now 31.1 million), +471 deaths (now 413447) since 15 hours ago | 08:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Majority of Covid misinformation came from 12 people, report finds | Coronavirus → https://is.gd/VP3d5j | 08:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Vietnam puts southern region in lockdown as surge grows → https://is.gd/9fudsZ | 08:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | July 18, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/yfUJ3G | 09:02 |
| pas23 | %cases CN | 09:35 |
| Brainstorm | pas23: In Tacna, Peru, there have been 28508 confirmed cases (0.0% of the population) and 1902 deaths (6.7% of cases) as of a day ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Tacna for time series data. | 09:35 |
| pas23 | %cases CH | 09:37 |
| Brainstorm | pas23: In Hubei, China, there have been 68189 confirmed cases (0.1% of the population) and 4512 deaths (6.6% of cases) as of 2 hours ago. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 2.2% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected) and less than 6.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Hubei for time series data. | 09:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak will not isolate after being ‘pinged’, says No 10 → https://is.gd/uxRngl | 09:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: UK PM, finance minister exposed to COVID, confined to office work → https://is.gd/VYcw6U | 10:14 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Manipur, India: +1171 cases (now 83859), +15 deaths (now 1365) since 23 hours ago | 10:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Far-right commentator Katie Hopkins dumped by Big Brother after Australia hotel quarantine claims → https://is.gd/0puboV | 11:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19: Three test positive at Olympic Village, sparking fears of outbreak ahead of Games → https://is.gd/HB4kvC | 11:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid:-19 Decision on vaccinations for under-18s 'within days' → https://is.gd/ZCMPvd | 12:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: British politics: UK’s Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak ditch plan to avoid self-isolation after u-turn → https://is.gd/2xTDdb | 12:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +1263 cases (now 3.8 million) since 21 hours ago | 13:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: South Africa footballers test positive for Covid-19 in Tokyo Olympic Village → https://is.gd/e9n5G4 | 13:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Indonesia Passes Brazil With Most New Covid Cases in World → https://is.gd/ofS1fW | 14:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Senegal: +1722 cases (now 52096), +6 deaths (now 1220) since 21 hours ago — Nepal: +1223 cases (now 667109), +23 deaths (now 9550) since a day ago | 14:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Francois Balloux: @BallouxFrancois: Given the furore caused by the JCVI not being expected to recommend covid19 vaccination for healthy children / teens in the UK, I felt I could retweet the thread I wrote on this issue about a month ago. → https://is.gd/Y2H5Eh | 14:32 |
| joerg | moin to a plain 10.0 in Germany | 15:27 |
| de-facto | :/ | 15:29 |
| de-facto | soon we will hope we can go back to 10 | 15:29 |
| joerg | yes, in 2 weeks | 15:30 |
| de-facto | lots of imports are happening right now, just like 2020 | 15:30 |
| de-facto | making R go even above what to expect by assuming a steady state of containment | 15:30 |
| de-facto | i dont understand why we would not have mandatory quarantine for all travelers without exceptions | 15:31 |
| de-facto | just by law, they should pick a date and then make 2 weeks military controlled quarantine mandatory for all travel returnees, let tourists pay for the expenses | 15:32 |
| joerg | sorry for the de >> [11 Jul 2021 19:05:54] <DocScrutinizer> ich krieg nur noch schreikraempfe beim nachrichtenschauen, vor allem wenn wieder laschert oder so schwachsinn ablassen wie >>unter zehn machen wir jetzt vorsichtige lockerungen...<< keine angst, ueber die 10 seid ihr in spaetestens 9 tagen wieder raus, und DANN? [11 Jul 2021 19:07:01] <petschge> und dann? politik der ruhigen Hand natürlich << | 15:34 |
| joerg | 7 days, not 10, it took | 15:35 |
| de-facto | the same people are making exactly the same mistakes again | 15:35 |
| de-facto | like in 2020 | 15:35 |
| de-facto | i wonder how they explain to repeat their mistakes when we need the lockdown soon | 15:36 |
| de-facto | let alone re-opening schools | 15:36 |
| de-facto | "sorry, tourists want to be entertained and party, its more important than your education" | 15:37 |
| de-facto | something like that maybe? idk if voters will think this kind of competence qualifies them for being re-elected | 15:37 |
| de-facto | why are borders still open, why international traveling without test or quarantine still tolerated? | 15:39 |
| de-facto | we having orders of magnitude less incidence would suggest to isolate our success | 15:39 |
| de-facto | instead they are taking back containment strategies and travel restrictions, almost welcoming the new delta wave | 15:40 |
| de-facto | and that without even proper reason, why not take advantage of the low incidence situation and ensure it continued with R<1? we almost were on the path to expand regions with zero covid and now? | 15:41 |
| de-facto | this makes me furiously angry, and i think many others too when we need the lockdown in the fall, even earlier than last year | 15:42 |
| de-facto | the mistakes are being made right now, later on its only reacting to the conditions that are determined by what is done or not done right now | 15:47 |
| de-facto | i mean its ok to make a mistake, once, but repeating the same mistake again an again? how does that look like? | 15:51 |
| woodhardigan[m] | de-facto "why are borders still open, why international traveling without test or quarantine still tolerated?" | 15:54 |
| woodhardigan[m] | This I will never understand. First thing I looked when this mess started was the immigration data. I remember seeing 5.000-13.000 Chinese entering South America (per month) when there were no cases around. I strongly believe this crisis, people's health compromise and deaths could've been completely avoidable. But most will argue it was done for the economy's sake | 15:54 |
| de-facto | we can have international logistic transport of wares and products, we need the supply chains, but tourism? | 15:56 |
| de-facto | there is a reason why the delta wave starts in the countries with highest tourism traveling | 15:57 |
| de-facto | why would this be different for the next mutant? | 15:57 |
| de-facto | its always the same pattern, since one and a half years | 15:58 |
| de-facto | currently probably importing Delta+K417N with tolerating fully vaccinated to go party without testing right after they entered a country, no quarantine no tests no nothing | 15:59 |
| de-facto | wait for it, we currently are importing it, i am sure | 15:59 |
| joerg | >><de-facto> the mistakes are being made right now, later on its only reacting to the conditions that are determined by what is done or not done right now<< could we maby hire a skypainter to write it to Berlin sky 5 times a day until maybe they finally grok it? | 16:00 |
| de-facto | it should be obvious to anyone following roughly what happened 2020 | 16:01 |
| de-facto | its almost still as if they would hope "it magically goes away by itself", well it wont. | 16:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Libya: +4061 cases (now 221495), +28 deaths (now 3281) since 2 days ago — Bangladesh: +8052 cases (now 1.1 million), +225 deaths (now 17894) since 23 hours ago — Guinea: +159 cases (now 24668), +2 deaths (now 188) since a day ago — Greenland: +6 cases (now 78) since 23 hours ago | 16:05 |
| joerg | I had to adapt secondary Y-scale (R_t) in my statistics charts today :-/ | 16:06 |
| woodhardigan[m] | I traveled for work at the beginning of COVID. I got stuck on a foreigner country and screwed on every sense. It is really the most stupid one can do to travel right now, no matter the reasons. Stay home and enjoy with family and friends before it's too late... | 16:07 |
| joerg | from http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics_files/covid19_statistics_htm_676ca636f9f11144.png to http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics.htm | 16:08 |
| de-facto | interpolating the numbers for Germany gives me R(4d)~1.35 and rising constantly | 16:13 |
| de-facto | Germany SARS-CoV-2 cases reproduction number on 2021-06-22 is R~0.74 and now 24 days later 2021-07-16 its R~1.35 hence R got an almost linear rise with slope of (1,35−0,74)÷24 = 0.0254 per day | 16:16 |
| joerg | http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/silly-calculation_not_so_silly.ods on topic, same result | 16:18 |
| joerg | 2021-Jul-11 21:02:40 | 16:18 |
| de-facto | yeah R rises roughly by 1/40 per day | 16:19 |
| joerg | http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/__covid-19/__covid-19.2021-07-11.log.html#t2021-07-11T14:08:22 | 16:22 |
| de-facto | if it continues like that we will pass R~1.5 next week Friday 2021-07-23 and R~1.75 on 2021-08-1 | 16:22 |
| de-facto | im not sure if politicians even understand how bad a rising R value is, not only does that mean the infections are far out of control with R~1.35>1, it also means control is fading away further and further with dR/td ~ 1/40 per day | 16:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Azerbaijan: +255 cases (now 338438), +1 deaths (now 4992) since a day ago — Guernsey: +12 cases (now 894) since 23 hours ago | 16:30 |
| de-facto | this means daily new infections are not "only" increasing exponentially with time, it means they are increasing *faster* than exponential with time | 16:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: After Uttar Pradesh and Tripura, now Rajasthan reports new cases of Kappa variant of COVID-19 → https://is.gd/72EY1S | 16:37 |
| de-facto | but instead the media makes statements like "incidence is still low" indicating they dont understand we got a 4th wave arriving with more than exponential speed right now in Germany | 16:42 |
| de-facto | not only does it mean we got not even roughly enough containment (R>1.35), it even means containment ramps down instead of up (hence R constantly increasing) | 16:44 |
| de-facto | if we would aim for R~0,75 to kill off the Delta wave we would need to reduce contacts to 0,75/1,35 ~ 0.55 | 16:46 |
| de-facto | so almost every second transmission taking place right now must be avoided by containment | 16:47 |
| tempate | Hello. I'm worried about my situation and I don't really know what to do. I took my vaccine three days ago (Janssen) and, coincidentally, had contact with a positive that same day. After the vaccine I had a terrible fever which laster for about 12 hours, and I was fine afterwards, with the exception of diarreah, which I have to this day. Yesterday I took an antigen test and it was negative. How should I proceed? | 16:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from Shane Crotty: @EricTopol: RT by @profshanecrotty: "Despite UK daily case rates of more than 40,000 — a figure that before the vaccines rollout would have led to about 800 deaths a day — the current daily tally is about 50." → https://is.gd/ryPPrd | 16:57 |
| jacklsw | tempate: if the result is negative maybe you are ok | 16:58 |
| jacklsw | test again in another few days | 16:58 |
| tempate | yes, that's the plan | 16:59 |
| tempate | but what should I do now? | 16:59 |
| tempate | stay locked down until then? | 16:59 |
| tempate | I was confident I was clear until I realized diarreah was a symptom of covid | 16:59 |
| genera | does the diarreee test positive? | 17:00 |
| genera | hehh | 17:00 |
| genera | i think i read it can take 14 days til the test turns positive | 17:01 |
| genera | and then again, you will have many contacts in that timeframe | 17:01 |
| tempate | my doctor said 10 days | 17:01 |
| genera | yah after time the probabbilty drops | 17:02 |
| tempate | so what should I do? | 17:02 |
| tempate | can I go out these next few days until I retake the test? | 17:02 |
| genera | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6j2kAgX0AAlP2c?format=jpg&name=large haha | 17:03 |
| genera | i would not. and also the vax. | 17:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: The pandemic has a new epicenter: Indonesia → https://is.gd/DElhGJ | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: A year after I contracted COVID-19, everything still smells like garbage and onions. One expert says it could last up to 3 years. → https://is.gd/dQpwDS | 17:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +3126 cases (now 4.3 million), +3 deaths (now 127867) since 23 hours ago | 17:32 |
| LjL | How would the expert know it could last "up to three years" | 17:47 |
| LjL | Are they an expert or a psychic | 17:47 |
| LjL | tempate: it's an unfortunate coincidence, but you really should self-isolate. Make sure you can measure fever, and maybe buying a cheap pulse oximeter wouldn't hurt | 17:50 |
| tempate | LjL: is going out with a ffp2 mask out of the question? | 17:54 |
| LjL | tempate: I can't stop you... But FFP2 masks are meant to protect yourself rather than others, and although they could conceivably do both, for starters if you're using the standard KN95 masks that are made in China and ubiquitous in Europe, much of the air you breathe out will just go out unfiltered | 17:56 |
| tempate | LjL: well, I was going to be outside all of the time | 17:57 |
| LjL | Use your best judgment. I can add that if the contact was on the same day as the vaccine (or even if it had been a few days later for that matter), the vaccine is giving you *no* protection | 17:59 |
| tempate | It was the same day | 17:59 |
| LjL | Did the diarrhea start on the same day too? | 18:00 |
| LjL | Because it would be unusual to have a contact and start having symptoms immediately on the same day or the day after | 18:00 |
| LjL | It usually takes a bit longer than that | 18:00 |
| specing | > the vaccine is giving you *no* protection | 18:01 |
| specing | is this proven? | 18:01 |
| tempate | LjL: yeah, I'm pretty sure it did | 18:01 |
| specing | IIRC they give you some (smallpox?) vaccines if you get infected | 18:01 |
| specing | with smallpox | 18:01 |
| specing | maybe it's similar here. | 18:02 |
| LjL | specing: there are no mesningful number of antibodies yet. It's proven by the fact that I don't know about J&J since I haven't really looked, but Pfizer's study for example has a graph where it shows COVID cases in time divided between vaccine arm and placebo arm. There does not start to be any discernible difference before a couple of week, which is how long IgG use to take to be created | 18:03 |
| tempate | I'm going to not be a dick for once in my life and stay home | 18:03 |
| specing | LjL: alright | 18:03 |
| specing | I saw some graphs like that | 18:03 |
| specing | tempate: exercise is important, go into forest I guess | 18:04 |
| LjL | Exercise soon after getting the vaccine may speculatively be a bad idea as it may make myocarditis worse, although we only know of that happening with Pzifer and Moderna so far | 18:06 |
| LjL | Light exercise should be okay though I guess | 18:06 |
| specing | LjL: EMA's astrazenece datasheet does list *carditis | 18:06 |
| specing | Myocarditis and pericarditis | 18:07 |
| specing | PRAC continued its assessment of myocarditis and pericarditis (inflammatory conditions of the heart) reported in a small number of people following vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines. As of end of May 2021, 38 cases of myocarditis and 47 cases of pericarditis were reported from the EU/EEA to EudraVigilance (see section 2) following vaccination with Vaxzevria; 40 million doses of the vaccine had | 18:07 |
| LjL | specing: yeah, I have the intuitive feeling it can happen and it's just that AZ had bigger concerns to think about :p | 18:07 |
| specing | been administered in the EU/EEA. Further information is needed to assess whether there is a causal relationship between myocarditis/pericarditis and Vaxzevria, and | 18:07 |
| specing | Oh, it's not linked yet | 18:08 |
| specing | AZ does have a long list of side effects, lol | 18:08 |
| LjL | Myocarditis will probably resolve on its own in most cases, but with strenuous exercise *and* myocarditis that's what could give you a nice heart attack or similar | 18:08 |
| specing | But I suspect that's due to it being in use for a little longer | 18:08 |
| LjL | Doesn't mean "stay on a chair all day", but preferably don't climb the Everest | 18:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +22899 cases (now 5.4 million) since 15 hours ago | 18:09 |
| specing | LjL: apparently only thrombosis is linked to AZ so far | 18:11 |
| specing | the rest are suspected | 18:11 |
| mrdata | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/covid-misinformation-conspiracy-theories-ccdh-report | 18:16 |
| mrdata | Majority of Covid misinformation came from 12 people, report finds | 18:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Worst Nightmare Come True! ‘The Last Cruise’ Is For Those Who Are Still Underestimating COVID → https://is.gd/F2NHhf | 18:31 |
| kreyren[m] | FREEEDOMMMM | 18:35 |
| kreyren[m] | AAHHAHAHA | 18:35 |
| * specing slaps kreyren[m] | 18:38 | |
| kreyren[m] | What was that for~ | 18:38 |
| kreyren[m] | u.u | 18:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): Benralizumab: a potential tailored treatment for life-threatening DRESS in the COVID-19 era. → https://is.gd/Q6F2aM | 18:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from Shane Crotty: @EricTopol: RT by @profshanecrotty: No matter how you slice it, by US counties, by US states, by countries, high rates of vaccinations are preventing hospitalizations and are saving [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/UA2Jn9 | 19:02 |
| tempate | specing: I biked 40+ kms the day I got the vaccine and I went for a run yesterday (going for another one tonight) | 19:23 |
| tempate | specing: how's exercise relevant in any case? | 19:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Albania: +21 cases (now 132686) since a day ago | 19:30 |
| whytek | de-facto, you might like this: https://twitter.com/PplsCityCouncil/status/1416468811293741059 | 19:30 |
| specing | tempate: regular exercise is important for one's immune system | 19:35 |
| de-facto | why would i like that? i hate it when cohesion breaks and this video there gives rise to even more dividing of society | 19:45 |
| whytek | "i dont want to rant about covidiots again, my opinion is that they should be forced to stick to hygiene rules by (weapons) force" | 19:47 |
| whytek | I thought is was a good example of (weapons) force. which you are in favour of. | 19:47 |
| whytek | as long as it is being used to force people to do something, right? | 19:48 |
| whytek | so there you are... | 19:48 |
| whytek | dream come true. | 19:49 |
| de-facto | well they dont force them to comply to hygiene rules as obviously they continue with what they are doing there | 19:49 |
| de-facto | the only thing they did there is creating images that are going used agains them | 19:50 |
| whytek | OK. So what's your idea of (weapons) force that works? Would you prefer live ammunition? | 19:50 |
| whytek | tazers? | 19:50 |
| joerg | wtf?! | 19:50 |
| whytek | I dont' think the person who received the impact of a high velocity projectile to the chest "continued with what they were doing" | 19:52 |
| whytek | What I see is that they crumpled to the ground in extreme pain. | 19:52 |
| de-facto | i dont even know the context, but those police officers there dont seem to dominate the situation | 19:52 |
| joerg | whytek: I feel VERY uncomfortable with your whole story | 19:52 |
| whytek | joerg, it's not my story. | 19:53 |
| whytek | I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable. | 19:53 |
| joerg | it IS your story, you brought it here, you're telling it | 19:53 |
| specing | Why are you surprised when people don't care about other people in a society pushing individuality above all else for the past few hundred years? | 19:53 |
| joerg | you even suggest de-facto would like it | 19:53 |
| whytek | joerg, de-facto, after being quite reasonable and rational on here for over a year, a couple of days ago, promoted the use of weapons force to control people who do things he does not agree with. | 19:54 |
| whytek | This video is an example of such. | 19:54 |
| joerg | I don't think either of you should do any of this | 19:55 |
| whytek | now, I assume that most rational people who promote the use of (weapons) force have little experience around (weapons) force. | 19:55 |
| whytek | so there's a light intro as to what happens with (weapons) force. | 19:55 |
| de-facto | i was talking about police officers being attacked by covidiots, they were thrown stones and bottles onto them, and they did not use weapons force on those people | 19:55 |
| de-facto | this was in my town here in Germany | 19:56 |
| joerg | is there a reason you come up with this shit? and is there a special purpose in those parentheses? | 19:56 |
| de-facto | they not only dont care about hygiene rules, they also dont care about law or police, nor about hurting them, several police officers ended up in hospital because of this | 19:57 |
| whytek | de-facto, I'm just pointing out to you, if you would prefer your town there in Germany to not look more like Los Angeles, you don't promote the use of weapons by police. "covidiots" or not. | 19:57 |
| de-facto | hence in my opinion they should have used their weapons on those people to make them comply and stop attacking the police officers, stick to hygiene rules | 19:57 |
| joerg | whytek: shut up! and listen to what de-facto just told you | 19:58 |
| whytek | OK de-facto. I've made my point. It's a dangerous line you are treading there. | 19:58 |
| joerg | I trhink it's a malicious line YOU are following here | 19:59 |
| whytek | joerg, I don't accept promotion of weapons use my police. Sorry, I will never "shut-up!" about that. | 19:59 |
| whytek | *by | 19:59 |
| joerg | hey look, there's a child porn picture you might like! fake.url.com/thisargumentationSUCKS | 20:00 |
| de-facto | in my opinion it is not tolerable that they attack police officers that have the job to make them comply to the law. they got their weapons for a reason, and they also should be allowed to use them in appropriate situations | 20:00 |
| whytek | joerg, https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm | 20:01 |
| de-facto | of course if you pull out videos of "innocent" girls being shot by police it let this appear in different light | 20:01 |
| whytek | de-facto, I'll leave it there, as I said I made my point. I invite you to qualify "(weapons) force", but if you choose not to, fine. | 20:02 |
| joerg | whytek: what makes you think I'd click on any URL you post in here, after that appearance? JFYI I agree with de-facto that police is allowed to defend against life threatening brutality with whatever means it needs to get on top of the situation. And your mode of argumentation is as evil as it gets | 20:03 |
| joerg | I invite you to drop this BS | 20:04 |
| whytek | OK. Thanks for that clarification. | 20:04 |
| de-facto | <de-facto> i dont want to rant about covidiots again, my opinion is that they should be forced to stick to hygiene rules by (weapons) force | 20:07 |
| de-facto | <de-facto> instead they attack police, so instead of them police ends up in hospital here | 20:07 |
| de-facto | <de-facto> because they dont use weapons on the covidiots | 20:07 |
| de-facto | you should use the full cite | 20:08 |
| freedomdaycountd | .title https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9798757/Boris-Johnson-cancels-plans-Churchillian-Freedom-Day-launch.html | 20:08 |
| Brainstorm | freedomdaycountd: From www.dailymail.co.uk: Boris Johnson cancels plans for Churchillian Freedom Day launch | Daily Mail Online | 20:08 |
| de-facto | police was attacked, some of the police officers got got serious injuries and ended up in hospital, because they hesitate to defend themselves with their weapons | 20:09 |
| de-facto | and yes i stay with my opinion, there is a point where they should use their weapons, not to kill covidiots, but to dominate the situation and terminate the violence against them | 20:10 |
| de-facto | its not acceptable how they are being treated sometimes, the police officers being attacked, seriously injured, their cars destroyed and set on fire | 20:11 |
| freedomdaycountd | https://twitter.com/DFisman/status/1416524258185031680 | 20:13 |
| de-facto | im my opinion much problems can be avoided if monopoly on violence stays in state hands, its a long established principle and backed up by law | 20:13 |
| freedomdaycountd | those R_0 figures, like for measles, vary a lot depending on source. for measles ive seen higher estimates used usually. those ive seen before have been between 8-30 i think | 20:14 |
| joerg | de-facto: your original statement was not ok either, just saying | 20:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: AstraZeneca Covid vaccine protection may last a lifetime: Study → https://is.gd/oZv4bv | 20:14 |
| de-facto | joerg, which one? | 20:15 |
| de-facto | i stay with above 3 lines, i think i explained the context clear enough by now | 20:21 |
| de-facto | this does not mean that i like police violence, i hate violence against police | 20:22 |
| de-facto | hence im my opinion it should not be allowed to escalate that far | 20:23 |
| de-facto | what is the alternative to it? anarchy where laws mean nothing or if monopoly of violence does not stay exclusively in state hands even civil war? | 20:35 |
| joerg | >>they should be forced to stick to hygiene rules by (weapons) force<< IS unacceptable. And I'm happy police seems to see it same way. I give you the benefit of doubt that you meant it not like it sounds | 20:35 |
| de-facto | read it in the context, together with the other two lines | 20:36 |
| de-facto | in my opinion its unacceptable that people assume they can attack police officers because they would not use their monopoly of violence to defend themselves and make sure people comply to the law. | 20:40 |
| joerg | that's a quite different and reasonable statement | 20:41 |
| de-facto | and yes this is a dangerous line indeed, because if that happens more often noone cares about police anymore | 20:41 |
| de-facto | tbh i am quite worried about this, i have seen that pattern more often already, police not dominating the situation, and people just doing whatever they want, some of them attacking and seriously hurting police officers and destroying their equipment | 20:43 |
| joerg | police in Germany is not even allowed to use deadly force to stop prisoners fleeing. Always use the mildest appropriate means that will do the job | 20:44 |
| joerg | This is a big difference to e.g. USA where they first shoot then ask, and I hope we will stay with this | 20:45 |
| de-facto | i never said deadly force, i said weapons force, it even would be counter productive to use deadly force because it would give rise backlash by martyr | 20:47 |
| de-facto | anyhow its my opinion, i stay with it, feel free to disagree | 20:49 |
| freedomdaycountd | https://twitter.com/caz_sampson/status/1415723730882412550 | 20:50 |
| joerg | you didn't come across as an ignorant guy who refuses to learn, so far. Weird you don't see how your wording is very inappropriate | 20:55 |
| de-facto | i dont care what people think about me, i have my opinions and i stay with them | 20:58 |
| indoanon[m] | whytek, do you think intentionally infecting people count as a crime? | 20:58 |
| indoanon[m] | Does the government should be held accountable when they relax the measures? | 21:00 |
| freedomdaycountd | indo do you know Kamchatka leaf warbler (Phylloscopus examinandus). spotted and ringed in finland, not sure if they took dna (it migrates to indonesia) | 21:03 |
| indoanon[m] | Those who take the jabs, as they are entranced with various promise that government said for the span of 3-6 months, that they could get back to normalcy... Dining out, having fun at pub, watching at cinema, etc.; Some of them are certainly devastated when the government walked back on their promises | 21:05 |
| joerg | >><de-facto> i dont care what people think about me, i have my opinions and i stay with them<< that's all fine, alas you have a very poor skill to express them in an unambiguous way and it seems you can't imagine that's maybe an issue in YOUR wording and not in the way everybody else is reading those words | 21:08 |
| indoanon[m] | oho, freedomdaycount. Maybe some bird enthusiasts brought them lol | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Isle of Man: +233 cases (now 2307) since a day ago — Turks and Caicos: +7 cases (now 2453) since 2 days ago — Germany: +1390 cases (now 3.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 21:09 |
| nixonix | italy possibly following france with vaccine certificates required for bars and events, but with quicker pace | 21:11 |
| de-facto | joerg, seriously what do you want from me? i have explained everything now several times, if you disagree, fine. i dont care. | 21:12 |
| whytek | indoanon[m], intentionally infecting people with a potenially deadly pathogen a crime? Of course. | 21:13 |
| nixonix | https://www.adnkronos.com/green-pass-obbligatorio-cosa-puo-cambiare-in-italia_6Gej0hKGNEBmAZK9BjSs0v?refresh_ce | 21:13 |
| indoanon[m] | Then, the debate should be on whether it's intentional or not, then what appropriate measures should be taken... Like, does coughing at other people deserves a tackle to the ground or rubber bullets | 21:16 |
| * indoanon[m] uploaded a video: (2566KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FkDUbVXQJnWrFwIwxcQrYYkl/pfizer-ceo-israel.webm > | 21:16 | |
| indoanon[m] | nixonix, in case you missed this vid | 21:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from Francois Balloux: @BallouxFrancois: I'm aware of two studies on long-covid in children / teens with a half-decent design (the one in the QT'ed tweet and the one linked to below). Neither point to sequelae associated to a / pauci-symptomatic covid19, as one might have predicted ...https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.11.21257037v1 → https://is.gd/Abbvf5 | 21:17 |
| nixonix | well it would be great, if long covid, post covid, brain, telomere, pancreatic cell etc damages were for adults only. im just not ready to believe it, yet anyway | 21:23 |
| joerg | >><de-facto> joerg, seriously what do you want from me?<< I told you your statement wasn't OK, you asked which, I told you which and you claimed you don't see anything wrong with that statement. What I want? I don't want to see such statements in this channel that everybody except you reads like "police should shoot people that don't wear masks" | 21:23 |
| LjL | oh lord | 21:24 |
| de-facto | why do you keep picking it out of context? it was to be read together with those two other lines i cited above, they were *directly* below it, i never said people should be shot for not wearing masks. | 21:26 |
| de-facto | i explained it above, i stay with everything i said. i have nothing to add to this anymore. | 21:27 |
| joerg | even in context that statement still needs a LOT of the benefit of doubt I gave you about you probably not meant what you wrote. Police SHOULD NOT go the path of "they should be forced to stick to hygiene rules by (weapons) force", no matter what you explain or what you wrote in context | 21:32 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/fascinatorfun/status/1416758968853086210 | 21:35 |
| nixonix | i only found couple of expert comments to their report yet. neither actually commented its estimates | 21:36 |
| de-facto | hygiene rules and laws are there for a reason, to protect the interest of majorities. if people dont care about those rules and gather, infect others and even spit on police and attack them, yes i think they should be forced to stick to the law (including hygiene rules), yes by mildest force necessary to make them comply, but in MY opinion there should be no taboo for police use also their weapons at some point, feel free to disagree | 21:38 |
| joerg | I disagree with your wording, and I'm surprised you refuse to understand that. Don't you think that your wording in that original statement said something pretty different than what you just wrote? | 21:43 |
| joerg | maybe that is the true problem, you just don't see the difference | 21:43 |
| de-facto | you give it another meaning by ripping it out of the context, if you understand it like lethal force against mask deniers, fine i cant help you then | 21:45 |
| indoanon[m] | I think it's fundamental that the damage for the hosts varies because different symptoms tree as the result of different genetic, underlying illnesses, habit, etc. But, it's just matter of progression | 21:47 |
| indoanon[m] | also, about pancreatic cell, did I missed something, nixonix? | 21:48 |
| nixonix | .title https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-virus-diabetes-studies-find/story?id=78168634 | 21:50 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From abcnews.go.com: The COVID-19 virus can cause diabetes, new studies find - ABC News | 21:50 |
| joerg | actually _I_ can't help _you_ then, maybe you recall I wasn't the first to criticize you for that sentence which is *not* changing its meaning when I put it in the context you gave, just that context gives a faint hint you meant sth different than you wrote | 21:51 |
| joerg | I still give you the benefit of doubt and assume you failed to appropriately word the idea you had, others obviously didn't and took the fords for their face value | 21:53 |
| joerg | s/fords/words/ | 21:53 |
| genera_ | do you have another source than ABC? | 21:54 |
| nixonix | yeah it varies because of genetics, big differencies in immune system, and maybe just because of luck, like where it starts to replicate first. also differencies like ace2 in different cells like those beta cells | 21:55 |
| de-facto | i stay with that sentence, understand it how you like | 21:57 |
| indoanon[m] | genera_, try this one https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dom.14269 | 21:57 |
| genera_ | tnx | 21:58 |
| nixonix | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413121002321 | 21:58 |
| joerg | there we have the problem now | 21:58 |
| indoanon[m] | oh, nixonix, you meant diabetes. I thought of something else | 21:58 |
| joerg | it seems the benefit of doubt been unjustified | 21:59 |
| de-facto | i dont know that to add to this anymore, i stay with every single word i said, you dont have to agree, i dont care about what benefit of doubt you give | 22:02 |
| de-facto | i am done with IRC for tonight, this is starting to annoy me | 22:05 |
| * joerg takes a note #covid-19 being the channel where statements like >>they should be forced to stick to hygiene rules by (weapons) force<< are considered OK | 22:07 | |
| nixonix | i see those islets are a special case in pancreas, as they are endocrinal (vs exocrinal vast majority in pancreas) | 22:22 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/covid-19-vaccine-ontario-students-1.6099579 | 22:28 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.cbc.ca: Should Ontario make the COVID-19 vaccine mandatory for school? | CBC News | 22:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Surgeon General Is ‘Deeply Concerned’ About Dangers Unvaccinated Adults Pose to Kids Under 12 → https://is.gd/sNLFeH | 23:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: 19 July: England Covid restrictions ease, but PM urges caution: There will be no limit on how many people can meet, nightclubs can reopen and large events resume. → https://is.gd/TmdLkh | 23:41 |
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