| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +20765 cases (now 6.0 million) since 21 hours ago | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| fourmileseher | People who had recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits versus controls when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group, pre-existing medical disorders, tiredness, depression and anxiety. | 00:51 |
| nixonix | The deficits were of substantial effect size for people who had been hospitalised (N = 192), but also for non-hospitalised cases who had biological confirmation of COVID-19 infection (N = 326) | 00:52 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext | 00:52 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.thelancet.com: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19 - EClinicalMedicine | 00:52 |
| LjL | nixonix, let me know how much for breakthrough cases in vaccinated people ;( | 01:03 |
| LjL | anyway i think i saw that paper before... but it might have been a preprint | 01:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Fr. Polynesia: +51 cases (now 19285) since 23 hours ago | 01:05 |
| LjL | yeah it was linked by de-facto as https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.20.20215863v1 | 01:09 |
| nixonix | different damages for breakthrough cases, it will take time. some finnish healthcare chief said in the end of year we know something, but it will take many years or more to know the full scale | 01:14 |
| nixonix | he meant normal infections, tho. i have fogged brain, should sleep | 01:15 |
| LjL | mine is fogged all the time :( | 01:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : Add study about cognitive deficits in people who recovered from COVID: Courtesy nixonix and de-facto (although maybe for some of these horrible findings, I should say "curse them" instead of "courtesy") → https://is.gd/dzJVoL | 01:16 |
| nixonix | t-cell hammer, who sees t-cells everywhere, but anyways https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1418585861780918274 | 01:16 |
| LjL | nixonix, someone will start saying again that the vaccine causes the same thing then | 01:17 |
| LjL | also "This is an awful virus. Unacceptable." ← that's a very... Trumpian way to describe this :D | 01:17 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add study about cognitive deficits in people who recovered from COVID ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/3521bddbd7d5b7131b0d2a1d213b3a85cbdd98ca ) | 01:19 | |
| nixonix | there are some antivaxers and ivermectin lobbyists in the thread already | 01:20 |
| nixonix | sad thing, they are getting even dumber when they get the infection. so even more stupid ideas will follow | 01:26 |
| nixonix | or maybe they have got it already, and thats why they are touting those | 01:27 |
| nixonix | some people need to believe in something, spirits, gods - and when that has gone out of fashion, now they believe what some dude wrote in internet | 01:29 |
| nixonix | or perhaps its more what they said in youtube nowdays | 01:29 |
| nixonix | eric found this alarming... https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1418669720874721283 | 01:41 |
| LjL | nixonix, how much is this delta and how much is it waning immunity? i don't know if it was already 39% as numbers are just piling up in my head and making no sense - but i definitely saw something from Israel where waning immunity seemed to be rearing its ugly head, as it was mostly in people over 65 who had been vaccinated first | 01:56 |
| LjL | also what is it with all those people droning "T-cells will save us" in the face of this ;( | 01:56 |
| LjL | nixonix, the lower CI's of those numbers are also scary | 02:02 |
| nixonix | eric in that thread thought it wasnt about age, but the data for age groups were so scattered that i dont think they can say it for sure. and probably not much yet, how much is it about the variant | 02:03 |
| nixonix | hospitalization numbers have increased also, but again too little data yet to be sure | 02:04 |
| LjL | i'm not saying it's age, i'm saying that those who are older were vaccinated first | 02:04 |
| LjL | so indirectly age | 02:04 |
| nixonix | they vaccinated healthcare workers too | 02:05 |
| LjL | but he covers that in the subsequent tweets in the thread separately | 02:05 |
| LjL | yeah he says in one of the rest of the tweets that in his opinion it is waning immunity because it can be seen in some people 18-65 too | 02:05 |
| nixonix | viral dose, try to breath less if theres indian variant around, vaccinated or not | 02:06 |
| LjL | you joke | 02:07 |
| LjL | i literally hold my breath when passing next to restaurants etc | 02:07 |
| nixonix | id never joke | 02:07 |
| nixonix | israel used 3 week interval, so lets see what uk data says | 02:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Shane Crotty: @profshanecrotty: Please get vaccinated. Do it this weekend! 98% of COVID hospitalizations in the past month in San Diego are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated people.https://www.countynewscenter.com/significant-spike-in-covid-19-cases-san-diegans-need-to-get-vaccinated-now/ → https://is.gd/uF9Eku | 02:07 |
| LjL | sure you joke, you called daily mail "quality media" yesterday! :P (yes i know you actually think that... eh) | 02:07 |
| LjL | and again | 02:07 |
| LjL | we get this type of rhetoric from the US | 02:08 |
| LjL | 98% in the unvaccinated or partially vaccinated | 02:08 |
| LjL | magically, in the US vaccinated people are almost completely protected while in Israel or Europe they barely are anymore | 02:08 |
| LjL | cannot have anything to do with wanting to make low vaccination rates higher in the US | 02:08 |
| gts | hey! ,,, who's imunne? | 02:08 |
| LjL | who knows? | 02:08 |
| LjL | i haven't taken an antibody test | 02:08 |
| LjL | and even if i had there is T-cells blah blah blah | 02:09 |
| gts | not me | 02:09 |
| nixonix | when around half is vaccinated, those numbers look like that. then when it increased, it starts to look more like in israel, half and half (hospital) | 02:09 |
| LjL | i've had a vaccine, if that's the bar | 02:09 |
| nixonix | in israel its around 85% of adults or so | 02:09 |
| LjL | nixonix, are the numbers so much higher in israel? i think israel "tapered off" with vaccines... pretty... abruptly (so not really tapered off, they stopped) | 02:09 |
| LjL | hmm 85% | 02:09 |
| LjL | thought less | 02:09 |
| nixonix | 27% under 15 in israel | 02:10 |
| nixonix | and they jsut recently started to vacc 12-16 yo, which picked up very slowly. now better, when cases have increased | 02:10 |
| nixonix | or 12-15 | 02:11 |
| LjL | OWID says 66% but they might be looking at the whole population | 02:11 |
| nixonix | yeah, its way higher among adults | 02:11 |
| LjL | but still it's 55% in america | 02:11 |
| LjL | not *so* different, given the same population metric | 02:11 |
| LjL | the UK recently passed Israel it would seem | 02:11 |
| nixonix | israel has a lot more kids, probably | 02:11 |
| gts | 16% in Brazil | 02:11 |
| LjL | uh well not recently | 02:12 |
| LjL | brazil is a disaster :( | 02:12 |
| gts | realy | 02:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/60-people-being-admitted-uk-hospitals-had-two-covid-jabs-adviser-2021-07-19/ | 02:13 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.reuters.com: 60% of people being admitted to UK hospitals are unvaccinated - adviser | Reuters | 02:13 |
| nixonix | they dont even vaccinate under 18yo there. but less kids than in israel prob, and lots of younger adults have no or 1 dose | 02:14 |
| LjL | i seem to have a reluctance to looking at actual UK government data... the site is a bit of a mess but they do have weekly reports and stuff. i keep saying i want to see data by vaccine type but i'm not even *looking*. i'm not sure if i'm just lazy, knowing the site is hard to navigate, or i'm scared of what i'll find | 02:16 |
| nixonix | Virologists at several of the Netherlands’ leading academic medical centers have observed that fully vaccinated healthcare workers who contract coronavirus can transmit it, whether they are symptomatic or asymptomatic. Transmission can take place from fully vaccinated to partially and unvaccinated persons, but also between fully vaccinated | 02:16 |
| nixonix | persons | 02:16 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/singapore-study-shows-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-69-effective-against-delta-variant-ong-ye | 02:18 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.todayonline.com: Singapore study shows Covid-19 mRNA vaccines are 69% effective against Delta variant: Ong Ye Kung | 02:18 |
| LjL | this is not the best scenario we could have hoped for :\ | 02:20 |
| LjL | at first "95%" seemed so... good | 02:20 |
| LjL | i don't suppose Pfizer ever did that followup that they had "promised" to do in their phase 3, i.e. use N-protein antibodies to find out how many in their phase 3 trial had asymptomatic COVID retrospectively? | 02:22 |
| LjL | AZ at least had PCR tests for everyone (but the results were quite underwhelming, i think i remember one-digit lower CI) | 02:22 |
| LjL | but i think there really is no clear justification for Pfizer and Moderna and others not taking periodic PCR on everyone in the trials - except making their numbers look better | 02:23 |
| LjL | (or rather, not showing different numbers that looked worse) | 02:23 |
| nixonix | In June, fully vaccinated people accounted for 20%, or 1 in 5, COVID cases in the county, which is the most populous in the United States. The increase mirrors Delta's rise. The proportion of breakthrough cases is up from 11% in May, 5% in April, and 2% in March, according to the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health | 02:23 |
| LjL | sigh | 02:24 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/955342 | 02:25 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medscape.com: Vaccine Breakthrough Cases Rising With Delta: Here's What That Means | 02:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +6292 cases (now 1.8 million), +3 deaths (now 17934) since 23 hours ago — France: +21262 cases (now 6.0 million), +20 deaths (now 111677) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +568 cases (now 1.4 million) since 20 hours ago — United Kingdom: +74 deaths (now 129155) since 23 hours ago | 02:32 |
| nixonix | anecdotal: But for many Covid-19 long-haulers, it was a mild infection that set off their lingering symptoms, leaving many to wonder whether a mild breakthrough case in someone who is fully vaccinated could do the same. | 02:34 |
| nixonix | It is theoretically possible, experts say, for that to occur. But doctors treating Covid-19 patients across the country contend that it doesn't appear to be a significant risk. | 02:35 |
| nixonix | Breakthrough infections resulting in long Covid-19 are "quite rare," said Dr. Greg Vanichkachorn, an occupational medicine specialist who works with post-Covid-19 syndrome patients at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Vanichkachorn's observation, while based only on what he's seen in the clinic, is echoed at other post-Covid-19 clinics. | 02:35 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/can-vaccinated-people-get-long-covid-doctors-say-risk-very-n1273970 | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nbcnews.com: Can vaccinated people get long Covid? Doctors say risk is 'very, very small' | 02:36 |
| nixonix | In Oregon, about 10 percent of the breakthrough infections reported to the state were in people living in nursing homes or congregate care facilities, and the majority of deaths were older people. According to the Minnesota Department of Health, the median age of breakthrough cases that have resulted in hospitalization is 74. | 02:38 |
| nixonix | This is the same population that has been more vulnerable to the most dire consequences of Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic. It's a trend that's been seen outside of the United States as well. | 02:38 |
| nixonix | Dr. Tal Brosh, who heads the infectious disease unit at Assuta Ashdod University Hospital in Israel, has noted that breakthrough infections tend to be more serious among those with underlying conditions, such as high blood pressure, diabetes and kidney disease. | 02:38 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/rarely-covid-vaccine-breakthrough-infections-can-be-severe-who-s-n1274164 | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nbcnews.com: Rarely, Covid vaccine breakthrough infections can be severe. Who's at risk? | 02:39 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html | 02:40 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.cdc.gov: COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC | 02:40 |
| nixonix | "Of the people who get vaccinated and end up with a breakthrough infection, their risk of coming back to the clinic with some long COVID-19 manifestation is very, very small," Ziyad Al-Aly, MD, clinical epidemiologist who is conducting research on the risk of long-COVID-19 among fully vaccinated veterans | 02:42 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-safety-outcomes/long-covid-19-unlikely-among-fully-vaccinated-physicians-say.html | 02:42 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.beckershospitalreview.com: Long COVID-19 unlikely among fully vaccinated, physicians say | 02:42 |
| nixonix | hopefully that anecdotal is true, and it will stay that way when circulating antibodies keep waning | 02:45 |
| LjL | nixonix, honestly i'm stopping believing stuff from the US until their "seriously, get vaccinated, it's cool" campaign is over | 02:48 |
| LjL | i want to see what happens here, with delta, for real | 02:48 |
| nixonix | they dont get good data there, because states and counties report whatever they like | 02:58 |
| nixonix | instead they have anecdotal stuff from mayo or something | 02:59 |
| nixonix | but you got to admit, that dm has human point of view, instead of reporting just stats and studies? | 03:04 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9816721/Covid-19-Australia-doctor-understand-Australians-arent-getting-AstraZeneca-jabs.html | 03:04 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.dailymail.co.uk: Covid-19 Australia: Top doctor can't understand why Australians aren't getting AstraZeneca jabs | Daily Mail Online | 03:04 |
| nixonix | pfizer dose interval increased to 6 weeks in sidney | 03:06 |
| nixonix | says daily mail | 03:07 |
| nixonix | i=y | 03:07 |
| LjL | if by "human point of view" you mean "FLASHING HEADLINES that make people ASTONISHED"... | 03:07 |
| nixonix | yeah, i like those headlines. but those longer versions, which bot doesnt grab, are better | 03:10 |
| nixonix | aussie media sucks or is behind paywall. using dm is better way to see whats going on there | 03:11 |
| nixonix | Outdoor gyms are a 'germ festival' and should not be used while Sydney is in lockdown, the NSW Police Minister has said | 03:15 |
| nixonix | idk, perhaps if the 1000x viral dose in upper respiratory is true. and theres that surface contact, so using gloves would be a good idea, or desinfecting | 03:16 |
| nixonix | usually outdoor infections havent been a big issue. idk if that has changed lately with this variant | 03:17 |
| nixonix | With the Delta strain now well and truly dominant, international experts are monitoring the Australian experience to assess its spread and movement, particularly around the risk of outdoor transmission of the virus. | 03:21 |
| nixonix | One of the world's leading epidemiologists and health economists, Eric Feigl-Ding, this week put Australia’s COVID woes on the international stage, highlighting cases of suspected outdoor transmission at the MCG and some early cases in the Bondi outbreak as particularly “worrying". | 03:21 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-23/australia-covid-19-delta-spread-gives-experts-insight/100313568 | 03:22 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.abc.net.au: As the COVID-19 Delta variant spreads in Australia, global experts look at its movement in a largely unvaccinated population - ABC News | 03:22 |
| nixonix | He said the high viral loads of the Delta strain, compared to other strains of COVID-19, meant the likelihood of outdoor transmission — an area of contention for some in the scientific community — could not be ruled out; and the Australian cases showed this. "It is something people had dismissed before because it was either rare or hard to | 03:22 |
| nixonix | trace," he told the ABC. | 03:22 |
| nixonix | there was that texas wedding too. but news about cases like that have been rare | 03:23 |
| nixonix | there was a study on that too | 03:23 |
| LjL | i kind of stress the "hard to trace" part too | 03:24 |
| LjL | i've always thought... sure, it makes logical sense that outdoors infections are more rare | 03:24 |
| LjL | but at the same time, when you're doing contact tracing, it's almost impossible to trace meeting someone fleetingly outdoors | 03:24 |
| LjL | so you're going to be biased in finding indoors transmission | 03:25 |
| nixonix | Speaking on the question of outdoor transmission in Victoria, Professor MacIntyre said she still believed "the most likely" point of contact in a stadium such as the MCG would be the toilets or at a food stall | 03:26 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.28.21258780v1.full | 03:31 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Transmission event of SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant reveals multiple vaccine breakthrough infections | medRxiv | 03:31 |
| nixonix | texas wedding, vaccine breakthroughs | 03:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Burundi: +110 cases (now 6128) since a day ago | 03:32 |
| LjL | i don't know why pfizer doesn't hurry the fuck up with a variant-specific vaccine | 03:39 |
| LjL | it's obviously needed | 03:39 |
| LjL | Moderna won't be enough | 03:39 |
| LjL | and AZ... don't make me talk about AZ | 03:39 |
| LjL | i wonder if the huge options-to-buy Pfizer that the EU has have at least a clause in the contract that it needs to be effective on current variants ;( | 03:40 |
| nixonix | "Pfizer and BioNTech are set to start clinical trials next month on a version of their Covid-19 vaccine targeting the Delta variant | 03:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: At least 100 US athletes unvaccinated as Olympics begin → https://is.gd/QAsbOB | 03:54 |
| LjL | %tell nixonix <nixonix> "Pfizer and BioNTech are set to start clinical trials next month on a version of their Covid-19 vaccine targeting the Delta variant ← yeah okay but like, was about time (and it took the CDC and FDA telling them "lol, no way" about an identical booster), Moderna has been in the trial for a while already | 04:20 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I'll pass nixonix your message when they are around. | 04:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cayman Is.: +9 cases (now 636) since 3 days ago | 05:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +15138 cases (now 6.0 million), +22 deaths (now 111684) since 21 hours ago — United Kingdom: +26919 cases (now 5.6 million), +48 deaths (now 129171) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +4747 cases (now 1.8 million) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +620 cases (now 1.4 million) since 21 hours ago | 06:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China's Nanjing city starts mass testing, suspends subway line amid new COVID-19 cluster → https://is.gd/IBmZcc | 06:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Blinken to visit India with vaccines and China in focus → https://is.gd/HA9CVe | 06:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Oregon firefighters face return of hazardous conditions, Covid-19 outbreak → https://is.gd/qK8muQ | 06:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Sage adviser claims ministers trying to get as many as possible infected with Covid → https://is.gd/EEf8uy | 07:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Florida, United States: +73166 cases (now 2.5 million), +282 deaths (now 38670) since 7 days ago — Rio Grande do Norte, Brazil: +64355 cases (now 1.7 million), +67 deaths (now 40016) since 23 hours ago — Mexico: +16421 cases (now 2.7 million), +328 deaths (now 237954) since a day ago — Alabama, United States: +1733 cases (now 567243), +4 deaths (now 11472) since 23 hours ago | 07:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Uzbekistan: +773 cases (now 123559), +7 deaths (now 826) since 22 hours ago | 08:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Moderna Covid-19 vaccine gets EU regulator endorsement for teens → https://is.gd/s951JG | 08:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | July 24, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/aj1AYP | 09:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Brazil reopens amid looming threat from delta variant → https://is.gd/JfaPit | 09:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: AP-NORC poll: Most unvaccinated Americans don’t want shots → https://is.gd/d1cUHN | 09:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Armenia: +250 cases (now 228632), +5 deaths (now 4584) since 22 hours ago | 10:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +1967 cases (now 3.8 million) since 22 hours ago | 10:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Georgia: +2617 cases (now 400698), +9 deaths (now 5665) since 22 hours ago | 11:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, But Largely Prevents Severe Illness, Israel Study Suggests → https://is.gd/Q75cLe | 11:08 |
| Rpifan | Hi | 11:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vaccinated people make up 75% of recent Covid-19 cases in Singapore → https://is.gd/WMac7e | 11:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Laos: +278 cases (now 4620) since a day ago | 11:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Indian tax officials raid newspaper (the largest by circulation in India) that took on Narendra Modi over the pandemic. → https://is.gd/4bdyEr | 11:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Thousands protest lockdown in Sydney, several arrested → https://is.gd/mJIHCF | 11:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Finland: +570 cases (now 102612) since 21 hours ago | 12:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Anti-lockdown protests across Australia as Covid cases surge to record levels in Sydney → https://is.gd/JVkBdw | 12:19 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Macau: +2 cases (now 58) since a day ago | 12:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Nazioni per percentuale di vaccinati. L'Italia è quarta al mondo. → https://is.gd/sQSef0 | 12:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Countrywide vaccination drives help reduce anxiety in Indians, survey finds → https://is.gd/8aPI1U | 12:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +15902 cases (now 996393), +184 deaths (now 7902) since a day ago — Nepal: +2309 cases (now 679017), +16 deaths (now 9695) since 23 hours ago | 13:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Malaysia reports record 15,902 new coronavirus cases → https://is.gd/Qd035R | 14:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Serbia: +249 cases (now 719913), +5 deaths (now 7103) since 23 hours ago — British Virgin Islands: +179 cases (now 2389), +2 deaths (now 25) since 3 days ago — Bangladesh: +1693 cases (now 1.1 million) since a day ago | 16:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: It seems the world over, governments are enjoying the taste of absolute authority and won't relinquish it. They still crush peaceful protests against lockdown but not vaccinate it's citizens with the same vigor. → https://is.gd/2CTzFI | 16:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: France’s far right take to the streets in protest of COVID-19 vaccine rules → https://is.gd/sxbcaw | 16:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +1172 cases (now 3.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 17:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The Latest: Tanzania gets 1 million J&J vaccines from U.S. → https://is.gd/2VCKiD | 17:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: French anti-riot police fired teargas as clashes broke out during protests in central Paris against COVID-19 curbs and vaccination. Police tried to push back demonstrators near the Gare Saint-Lazare railway station after the protesters pushed over a police motorbike carrying officers → https://is.gd/YctJtx | 18:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Today’s update to the #COVID19 Dashboard is experiencing a delay. On Saturday 24 July, 31,795 new cases were reported across the UK. 46,519,998 people have now received the 1st dose of a #vaccine. 36,953,691 have received a 2nd dose. Today’s deaths data is not yet available. (Via @PHE_uk) → https://is.gd/bZsk3F | 18:18 |
| joerg | LjL: >>BioNTech are set to start clinical trials next month...<< where from? got a link for me? Also maybe we should emphasize that "breakthrough infection" isn't anything unexpected, we never hoped for a 100% sterile immunity from vaccination. What's relevant was a "breakthrough disease" which afaik has not really been seen a single one so far | 18:33 |
| LjL-Matrix | joerg: wut? First I didn't say that thing about Pfizer, nixonix or someone else did... Plus what are you saying there is no breakthrough disease?! We've been discussing for days whether the hospitalizations in vaccinated people are too many or the expected, but they most definitely EXIST in large numbers! | 18:36 |
| LjL-Matrix | I'm currently travelling and on my phone, can't bring up data, but that there is no breakthrough disease is just thoroughly false | 18:37 |
| joerg | well, then I didn't notice those, my info so far was that vaccination so far reliably protects from severe case | 18:37 |
| joerg | anyway there is a notable difference between breakthrough infection and breakthrough disease | 18:39 |
| joerg | usinfg both synonymous is quite missleading | 18:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +5087 cases (now 1.2 million), +195 deaths (now 19046) since 2 hours ago | 18:40 |
| joerg | LjL: and I didn't imply you stated any of this, I just asked if you know where from it was | 18:44 |
| joerg | I had asked nixonix if they were around | 18:44 |
| joerg | and you're absolutely right, even with my obviously outdated information level I shouldn't have stated "we didn't see breakthrough disease" since all I thought I knew was we seen not SERVERE/LETHAL breakthrough disease. Even that might well be wrong | 18:48 |
| LjL | joerg: there is severe disease, there is lethal disease... I'm sorry, I react like this because it makes me think, if all vaccinated people think there's pretty much full protection, they'll take way too many risks and it'll be worse than having no vaccine! I don't have the quote but someone from Israel said that Delta and the vaccine "balance out", in other words "thanks" to Delta, it's going to become more or less as if Israelis weren't vaccinated and the variant | 18:56 |
| LjL | was the original one. Anyway have a look at the data in this tweet - I don't like the tweet's "!!!" style, but the data they post are, I believe, official data from Israel, one of the countries that is studying this the most together with the UK | 18:56 |
| LjL | https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1418669720874721283 | 18:56 |
| joerg | I guess >> Of Singapore's 1,096 locally transmitted infections in the last 28 days, 484, or about 44%, were in fully vaccinated people, while 30% were partially vaccinated and just over 25% were unvaccinated, Thursday's data showed. While seven cases of serious illness required oxygen, and another was in critical condition in intensive care, none of the eight had been fully vaccinated, the health ministry said.<< is about correct to sum up the current state, | 18:56 |
| joerg | though my info been BNT efficiency still higher with Delta, well over 80% iirc | 18:56 |
| LjL | It's not over 80% by any extent of imagination, it's sad and tragic that our vaccine efforts are being thwarted like this, but if people think the efficacy is still very high it'll all be even worse | 18:58 |
| LjL | When nixonix joins I'm sure he'll be able to provide more data | 18:58 |
| LjL | de-facto also knows a lot of studies about this but evidently you two can't be compatible *shrug* | 18:59 |
| joerg | my info admittedly is at least 3 weeks old, maybe 5 or 6, and didn't include the Israel study yet, which been tagged "maybe questionable" back when, by the german virologists I have on abo | 19:01 |
| joerg | on a sidenote: you know "afaik"? I use this acronym to denote that I'm not sure about the part that's tagged this way | 19:05 |
| joerg | I don't think >><LjL> joerg: there is severe disease, there is lethal disease...<< is really any useful a statement particularly in this very channel. Those who would dispute that are not even joining here | 19:20 |
| joerg | >>if all vaccinated people think there's pretty much full protection<< I wouldn't even consider a 95% efficiency coming close to anything like "full protection", and I guess you should know this | 19:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Mumbai: Frustrated of contracting COVID twice in three months, couple ends life → https://is.gd/f6TXkn | 19:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Morocco: +5494 cases (now 575162), +23 deaths (now 9559) since 22 hours ago | 19:30 |
| joerg | using "breakthrough infection" as synonym for "breakthrough disease" anyway damages the reputation of this message we need to get out to the people that there is no such thing like "full protection". If we want to make that point get heard, we need to refrain from using similar blanket assertions like they are used by the querdenker fools etc | 19:31 |
| joerg | it's all just about keeping R<=1 until *everybody* who wants got the complete jab program, and we are failing on reaching that goal. | 19:37 |
| joerg | then we also need to ask if the available jabs are sufficient at all or we already should provide an adapted vaccine as mandatory part of that full program | 19:38 |
| joerg | there's definitely no human right to run around and spread a disease just because you don't like to get vaccinated or refuse to wear a mask or whatever. Never been, in old times those folks got detained to isolation islands etc | 19:42 |
| joerg | check where the term quarantine originates from | 19:43 |
| specing | joerg: perhaps not, but humans have been happily going around while spewing toxic vehicle exhaust | 19:43 |
| specing | a disease is at least all natural (TM) | 19:43 |
| dTal | not "natural" in the sense that it wouldn't have existed without human intervention | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19 → https://is.gd/SGhlQA | 20:10 |
| joerg | it seems to me like there's absolutely no consense anymore on what *exactly* to achieve with our fight against the virus. Not like there ever been any unanimous consent on that anyway, but meanwhile they faintest consense about the priority goal got lost | 20:17 |
| joerg | -y | 20:17 |
| joerg | do we minimize on fatalities, on ICU occupation, on economic impact and if so on which part of economy, on least discomfort to the individual or what? | 20:21 |
| joerg | we had a few enlightened ones pointing out that all this in the end is the same, but this insight got lost | 20:24 |
| joerg | s/ consense/ consensus/g | 20:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: How to Find YOUR Idea for a Successful Business in Under 40 seconds → https://is.gd/DJ6pGA | 20:40 |
| LjL | joerg, i don't know, it's not just that we can't organize ourselves, it's also that things get progressively more confusing... vaccines now don't seem to protect against transmission (even among vaccinated people) either at all or only marginally, Delta changed all the numbers of all the things... and you have this study showing cognitive deficits in people who've had COVID even if they weren't hospitalized... for me, lately, it's all a bit too much, and i | 20:51 |
| LjL | wouldn't know what to do | 20:51 |
| LjL | i mean i'm not an expert so i wouldn't know anyway, but during some of the past months i felt i had clearer ideas | 20:51 |
| joerg | I feel pretty much the same. Plus a thorough annoyance by incompotence or idiotism or ignorance and hidden agenda or whatever by politicians and spin doctors | 20:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: exas Testing Clinic Seeing Increase In Positive Covid Results Among Children: Morgan Chesky reports from Dallas on the state of coronavirus infections in Texas and the role summer camps are playing in the spread. → https://is.gd/vVw3BV | 21:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israel says Pfizer Covid vaccine is just 39% effective as delta spreads, but still prevents severe illness → https://is.gd/xAljCO | 21:41 |
| LjL | perks of football: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E67HqgjXsAUkVMd.png | 22:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Greek police clash with protesters in rally against mandatory vaccinations → https://is.gd/MKk737 | 22:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israel says Pfizer Covid vaccine is just 39% effective as delta spreads, but still prevents severe illness → https://is.gd/EngVFt | 23:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +18886 cases (now 5.7 million) since 21 hours ago | 23:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Vaccine passports at football matches coming meaning fans must be double jabbed → https://is.gd/MpzTWy | 23:54 |
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