| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Protesters took to the streets in several Brazilian cities on Saturday to demand the impeachment of Jair Bolsonaro, the country’s far right president whose popularity has fallen in recent weeks amid corruption scandals against the backdrop of the pandemic. → https://is.gd/5HPHXt | 00:14 |
|---|---|---|
| joerg | LjL: I wonder what's the story with >>and conflicts with data out of the U.K. that found the shot was 88% effective against symptomatic disease caused by the variant.<< in worldnews: Israel says Pfizer Covid vaccine is just 39% effective as delta spreads, but still prevents severe illness → https://is.gd/xAljCO | 00:35 |
| joerg | israel says >>demonstrating 88% effectiveness against hospitalization << | 00:37 |
| joerg | you _could_ read that like "in Israel everybody with symtoms goes to hospital no matter what" | 00:39 |
| theendisnotnigh | https://twitter.com/equibotanica/status/1418820007975342081 | 00:49 |
| theendisnotnigh | .title https://www.axios.com/states-covid-reporting-surge-25371cc8-c0c0-413b-81b4-8a2ea3dc9b99.html | 00:55 |
| Brainstorm | theendisnotnigh: From www.axios.com: Some states trim COVID reporting as Delta spurs surge - Axios | 00:55 |
| theendisnotnigh | includes ab titers of the original and upated version, vs. 614g, 315 and P.1 https://investors.modernatx.com/static-files/d427592c-dab4-4715-a568-31207d9832ab | 01:02 |
| theendisnotnigh | updated version doesnt look awesome, titer wise, compared to booster with original. some discussion, but not much info https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1418917891441844224 | 01:09 |
| theendisnotnigh | Lewy body formation is an indication for the development of Parkinson’s disease, this data represents a warning for potential long-term neurological effects after SARS-CoV-2 infection. Teaser SARS-CoV-2 causes brain inflammation and Lewy bodies, a hallmark for Parkinson, after an asymptomatic infection in macaques. | 01:15 |
| theendisnotnigh | abnormal proteins in macaque brains | 01:16 |
| theendisnotnigh | maybe we are lucky and doesnt happen in humans | 01:16 |
| theendisnotnigh | https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1373203009690214402 | 01:17 |
| LjL | joerg, yes, i think i noticed that "coincidence" yesterday... death is a "harder" endpoint, although countries seemingly manage to make even death hazy | 01:18 |
| joerg | it's a mess | 01:18 |
| LjL | but anyway i'm seeing all sorts of numbers that seem to be conflicting | 01:18 |
| LjL | yeah | 01:18 |
| LjL | i don't think it's still 88% efficacious in the way it ws 95% efficacious at the beginning | 01:19 |
| LjL | but i wouldn't be ready to put my honor on that statement | 01:19 |
| LjL | (not that i have much honor) | 01:19 |
| joerg | no doubt we moved from R_t=0.6 to 1.2 here in D, most certainly caused by Delta | 01:19 |
| joerg | on the bright side, if there's any such thing in that: we seen a R_t=1,45 a few days ago and it seems like it's stabilizing at 1.2 now | 01:20 |
| theendisnotnigh | .title https://sg.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-hong-kong-study-shows-113844553.html | 01:21 |
| Brainstorm | theendisnotnigh: From sg.news.yahoo.com: Coronavirus: Hong Kong study shows significant percentage of recovered patients struggle with memory loss, depression | 01:21 |
| joerg | with a little bit of good will and discipline and less ignorance, we _could_ reach <1.0 again, I'm absolutely confident | 01:22 |
| LjL | joerg, people are tired | 01:23 |
| LjL | i think we'll see more and more protest to any measures | 01:23 |
| dTal | yeah and let's fix climate change as well, and while we're at it I want a pony | 01:23 |
| LjL | governments had kept telling people the vaccine would be "the light at the end of the tunnel" | 01:23 |
| LjL | how to you tell people the tunnel never really ends | 01:23 |
| joerg | we need to stop this "hey, it's over! let's burn those damn masks and finally have party at Ballerman (Mallorca)" mentality though | 01:23 |
| LjL | yes, be prepared to do it with actual force because if you tell people *that's not true, it's not over at all, it won't be over any time soon*, i don't think you can make them isolate and distance and wear masks etc without force | 01:24 |
| dTal | my confidence in the good will, discipline, and lack of ignorance in the general population has *never* been lower, and that's saying something | 01:25 |
| joerg | :sad-nod: | 01:26 |
| LjL | and meanwhile Reddit can keep gloating on things like <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: LA man who mocked Covid-19 vaccines dies of virus | 01:26 |
| dTal | see that's news | 01:26 |
| LjL | which is kinda disgusting, but maybe the only way some people can cope with how awful it all is | 01:27 |
| dTal | LA man mocks vaccine, doesn't die of virus but spends days spewing shit on Facebook - that's not news | 01:27 |
| dTal | and by far the more common case | 01:27 |
| theendisnotnigh | .title https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/159-dead-593-hospitalized-in-illinois-breakthrough-covid-cases/2560611/ | 01:27 |
| Brainstorm | theendisnotnigh: From www.nbcchicago.com: 159 Dead, 593 Hospitalized in Illinois Breakthrough COVID Cases – NBC Chicago | 01:27 |
| LjL | LA man doesn't mock vaccine, dies of virus away from family and his belongings are burned | 01:28 |
| LjL | that's a statistic | 01:28 |
| dTal | why would they burn belongings | 01:28 |
| joerg | then, a friend of mine tells me she's still completely wary regarding those new vaccines that never before been used large scale (or at all) and I think no shouting and panic-mongering will cure that. I just don't get it why we still have no "classic" vaccines in EU | 01:28 |
| LjL | dTal, well... they don't anymore, i guess. i get this from a (remote) acquaintance who i learned died from the virus early in the first Lombardy wave | 01:28 |
| LjL | they didn't really know how the virus transmitted itself | 01:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: LA man who mocked Covid-19 vaccines dies of virus → https://is.gd/sIwaxl | 01:29 |
| LjL | belongings could be contaminated | 01:29 |
| dTal | even if you were terribly concerned about that you could just leave the belongings alone for a week | 01:29 |
| LjL | (i don't know specifically they were burned, but they were disposed of as dangerous biochemicals) | 01:29 |
| LjL | dTal, nobody got time for that | 01:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Azerbaijan: +412 cases (now 340057) since a day ago | 01:30 |
| dTal | Are we talking belongings from someone's house? I don't see the urgency | 01:30 |
| LjL | i'm in the building where that person died now, incidentally... i'm in the alps, that was the father of a childhood friend i had here, who had moved here permanently or semi-permanently | 01:31 |
| LjL | dTal, no, i'm talking the cellphone and other close belongings of someone in ICU | 01:31 |
| LjL | apart from the fact that in many hospitals things like cellphones and tablets just "disappeared", that is | 01:32 |
| dTal | ironically, burning a covid-contaminated cell phone makes it strictly more harmful to health | 01:32 |
| joerg | yeah | 01:32 |
| joerg | seems this is an "ancient" story though | 01:32 |
| dTal | yeah if I were on the phone-burning crew I'd probably just pocket the phone | 01:33 |
| dTal | sterilize it at home, sell on ebay | 01:33 |
| LjL | dTal, again i said burning just in the general sense of disposing of in a presumably safe manner. i wasn't overseeing it | 01:33 |
| LjL | thankfully | 01:33 |
| LjL | in fact i didn't know he had died until recently, but he died in like April 2020 | 01:33 |
| joerg | a time where they desinfected streets | 01:34 |
| LjL | (although i am still missing a good explanation for that pet peeve of mine, even if it's "because they were idiots", i want to know the exact how and why!) | 01:34 |
| LjL | but yeah, and generally try to recall the news you got from Lombardy between February and April | 01:35 |
| LjL | i remember the day when we reached 7000 cases (total) and i was terrified because we had passed South Korea | 01:36 |
| LjL | (South Korea had a brief period where it looked the Dangerous Place outside of China) | 01:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Israel: +1421 cases (now 859398), +1 deaths (now 6458) since a day ago — Germany: +995 cases (now 3.8 million), +12 deaths (now 92036) since 15 hours ago | 02:08 |
| theendisnotnigh | okay, here's an idea. vaccine gets in blood vessels and pulmonary circulation, then into cardiomyocyte cells, which then secrete CCL2 recruiting macrophages, and their higher responsiveness to chemokines in young males leads to myocarditis or pericarditis | 02:20 |
| theendisnotnigh | .title https://www.cell.com/stem-cell-reports/fulltext/S2213-6711(21)00378-7 | 02:21 |
| Brainstorm | theendisnotnigh: From www.cell.com: Cardiomyocytes Recruit Monocytes upon SARS-CoV-2 Infection by Secreting CCL2: Stem Cell Reports | 02:21 |
| theendisnotnigh | Wyss-Coray and his colleagues have discovered, factors in young mice's blood can rejuvenate older mice's cognitive performance, whereas blood from old mice can detrimentally affect their younger peers' mental ability | 02:25 |
| theendisnotnigh | no wonder they use young (virgins?) blood in hollywood | 02:26 |
| LjL | O.o | 02:27 |
| LjL | sometimes you're weird | 02:27 |
| LjL | do we get either smarter or dumber every time we get a blood transfusion? | 02:28 |
| theendisnotnigh | .title https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210622/Molecular-study-reveals-signs-of-inflammation-in-brains-of-people-who-died-of-COVID-19.aspx | 02:29 |
| Brainstorm | theendisnotnigh: From www.news-medical.net: Molecular study reveals signs of inflammation in brains of people who died of COVID-19 | 02:29 |
| nixonix | depends on donators age i think | 02:30 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: At 2021-07-24 02:20:12 UTC, LjL told you: <nixonix> "Pfizer and BioNTech are set to start clinical trials next month on a version of their Covid-19 vaccine targeting the Delta variant ← yeah okay but like, was about time (and it took the CDC and FDA telling them "lol, no way" about an identical booster), Moderna has been in the trial for a while already | 02:30 |
| nixonix | has moderna said anything about 617.2 targetting update? | 02:31 |
| LjL | nixonix, i don't know. last i heard it was abotu B.1.351, but i also read something when the news story about "lost" early-Wuhan sequences being found again came out that Moderna said that if it all proved true, they would add those sequences to their "one-shot" multivalent vaccine. so that would imply they are working on a cocktail of variants, but that's the only hint of that i've read | 02:33 |
| nixonix | i linked above about that 351 update of moderna | 02:34 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210720/Researchers-examine-the-effectiveness-of-the-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-vaccine-in-reducing-household-transmission.aspx | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.news-medical.net: Researchers examine the effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine in reducing household transmission | 02:36 |
| LjL | nixonix, well, okay, i'm just saying that's the last i heard too. although i hadn't seen that presentation. but the FDA and the CDC immediately said "no way!" to Pfizer wanting EUA for a 3rd booster (identical): so my question would be, do they just think that 2 shots will be enough (unlikely!), or do they just refuse to accept an unmodified 3rd booster that doesn't account for variants? | 02:39 |
| LjL | are there statements by the FDA and CDC about their reasons for refusing the EUA? | 02:39 |
| nixonix | i think they just wait for more information on breakthroughs, and the medical consequences of them, before committing to 3rd doses (for all or just old and risk groups), their scheduling etc | 02:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Alabama's governor, Kay Ivey, says it's 'time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks' → https://is.gd/fTRni1 | 02:51 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1418696483872854021 | 03:00 |
| LjL | "The authors put the results into context - the average deficit experienced by hospitalised covid patients (0.47 for ventilator, 0.26 no ventilator) were worse than average deficit by people who'd suffered a stroke (0.24)." | 03:07 |
| LjL | yikes | 03:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +3056 cases (now 1.8 million), +2 deaths (now 17936) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +476 cases (now 1.4 million), +5 deaths (now 26544) since 23 hours ago | 03:10 |
| nixonix | finnish markus perola, who is/was on clarivate's list of highly cited researchers that has only about 20 finns, is now involved in long covid research and thinks its possible that sars2 could become dormant and reactivating causing lc symptoms, like in vzv | 03:10 |
| LjL | that has been a fear i've long held | 03:10 |
| nixonix | he said its one possibility | 03:10 |
| LjL | i showed you that study where they suspect it lies dormant, or, well, semi-active in the guts? | 03:10 |
| LjL | %links intestine | 03:11 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03207-w (Evolution of antibody immunity to SARS-CoV-2) finds that in a cohort of 87 patients 10% of which needed hospital care, 44% reported long-term symptoms after 6 months, and it also suggests that there may still be replicating virus in the intestine (gut) of about half of infected individuals at least 90 days after infection [... want %more?] | 03:11 |
| LjL | also, nixonix, earlier i was travelling with only phone internet, and to my surprise joerg thought there are basically there is no breakthrough disease. let's say he meant severe disease and/or death (ideally death) because he corrected himself later... i told him you could probably help him by indicating some statistics/studies where it's clear that breakthrough deaths, while still largely prevented by vaccine, do happen in conspicuous numbers | 03:15 |
| LjL | i don't have many pointers to such things because lately the numbers have just been contradictory and confusing me and i sort of gave up | 03:16 |
| LjL | but i'm pretty sure all numbers not-from-the-US (i.e. wherever Delta is prevalent) show that severe disease can definitely happen and not just in the one odd case | 03:16 |
| LjL | i'm not sure if he's sleeping now, but if you have some solid data about that, feel free to post it | 03:16 |
| nixonix | i dont think they have very good data on breakthrough deaths yet, but it seems to be mostly old ppl that dont have that strong response to vaccine | 03:21 |
| nixonix | like that finnish hospital breakthrough cluster, where one double vaccinated died | 03:21 |
| nixonix | In the UK, where the Delta variant makes up more than 90% of cases, 26 of 73 total deaths associated with the Delta variant were among people who had been fully vaccinated, The Telegraph reported this week | 03:21 |
| nixonix | As of July 12, the CDC reported 5,492 breakthrough cases in which patients were hospitalized or died. Three-quarters of the cases involved people over age 65. While they are tracked as breakthrough infections, it's not necessarily the case that Covid-19 caused the hospitalizations or deaths, particularly among patients who were asymptomatic | 03:23 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/breakthrough-infections-mean-covid-vaccines-rcna1478 | 03:23 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nbcnews.com: What breakthrough infections mean for the Covid vaccines | 03:23 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210713/Israeli-study-of-breakthrough-infections-following-full-BNT-Pfizer-vaccination-4025-immunocompromised.aspx | 03:24 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.news-medical.net: Israeli study of breakthrough infections following full BNT-Pfizer vaccination, 40% immunocompromised | 03:24 |
| LjL | nixonix, right, i remember in the UK it said a while ago that 1 out of 3 deaths were among vaccinated (wasn't sure if fully). there was an argument on reddit about that, mostly going like "but it's very few deaths anyway"... sure, except they're getting to be more as the spike gets bigger | 03:25 |
| LjL | so i would say that 1 in 3 deaths being verified as happening in fully vaccinated people in the UK should convince joerg is not a one-off phenomenon | 03:25 |
| nixonix | those illinnois breakthrough numbers too, maybe most of them were hospitalized from another reason too | 03:26 |
| LjL | as to the israel data i only looked at the graphs included in that twitter thread and those put "severe (ICU)/death" into the same box | 03:26 |
| nixonix | .title https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/564270-one-state-has-had-5000-infections-and-80-deaths | 03:29 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From thehill.com: One state has had 5,000 infections, 80 deaths of vaccinated people | TheHill | 03:29 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From thehill.com: One state has had 5,000 infections, 80 deaths of vaccinated people | TheHill | 03:29 |
| LjL | ah sorry nm, that israel thing is different, i just assumed it was the same because "40%" appears in both | 03:30 |
| LjL | "Nonetheless, comorbidities were more frequent in patients with vaccine breakthrough infections in comparison to a large case series on unvaccinated hospitalized patients – including hypertension, diabetes, heart failure, chronic kidney diseases, chronic lung diseases, dementia and cancer." | 03:30 |
| LjL | do you remember when about one year ago, the line was often "basically only old people with comorbidities die"? | 03:31 |
| LjL | now it's "if you're vaccinated, you only die if you're old and with comorbidities" | 03:31 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/955342 | 03:32 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medscape.com: Vaccine Breakthrough Cases Rising With Delta: Here's What That Means | 03:32 |
| nixonix | and you could have a breakthrough infection, and get mild symptoms. but then die anyway suddenly, for whatever reason | 03:33 |
| nixonix | and the most common think seems to be that lc isnt a big issue for vaccinated (unless old or immunocompromised, and bad luck with response to vaccine). lets see if it holds | 03:35 |
| nixonix | and how is it when we are waiting for the 3rd dose for months in overtime | 03:37 |
| nixonix | winter is coming. but after that there will be summer again | 03:37 |
| nixonix | then there wil be winter again. its a cycle! | 03:37 |
| nixonix | i thought this would be mostly over by the fall | 03:39 |
| finely[m] | DBrainstorm | 03:39 |
| LjL | nixonix, i didn't think it would be quite "over", but i sure hoped that at least in the EU, we'd finish vaccinating everyone by autumn, and then we'd get a third booster, but we'd mostly be safe from disease and worse :( | 03:41 |
| nixonix | im mostly worried about kids getting it in the fall, without vaccine | 03:41 |
| nixonix | uk case numbers decreased this week. they closed schools recently, maybe a factor | 03:42 |
| LjL | nixonix, one of the tweet threads that i think you linked to mentioned at one point that the start of the latest UK wave seemed to start with little kids, so they could be a "marker" of a wave starting | 03:42 |
| LjL | did you see that? | 03:42 |
| LjL | nixonix, i was also shown something that suggests the football events definitely caused a spike https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E67HqgjXsAUkVMd.png | 03:43 |
| nixonix | i remember some tweet mentioning uk schools, not sure if i linked that one | 03:43 |
| LjL | hmm let me try to find the one i mean | 03:43 |
| LjL | nixonix, https://twitter.com/zin_zah/status/1418234115728580613 (and the following tweet) | 03:45 |
| LjL | and in the summer, so probably not tied to schools? | 03:45 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1418956237744582661 | 03:47 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/equibotanica/status/1418820007975342081 | 03:47 |
| LjL | nixonix, well okay maybe total cases go down, but it looks like cases *among young children* go up, maybe largely unnoticed | 03:48 |
| LjL | ugh | 03:49 |
| LjL | that looks awful | 03:49 |
| LjL | https://twitter.com/equibotanica/status/1418820007975342081/photo/3 in particular | 03:49 |
| LjL | although the numbers are small, and yes, i get it, most of them are vaccinated | 03:49 |
| nixonix | but almost all adults in iceland are. i guess it still needs to spread somewhere... | 03:51 |
| LjL | but my question is, if "Vaccination-only isn't a viable way forward", what is a viable way forward? continuing with distancing and lockdowns and masks? even with Delta having 1000x the viral load of Alpha, making it perhaps useless, and making it perhaps transmissible outdoors, and with people being about to revolt if there is another lockdown? when will the lockdowns possibly end? if they don't end with a working vaccine, then i don't see ANY end in sights. other | 03:51 |
| LjL | people will realize that too, and not accept measures like lockdowns after they're vaccinated. | 03:51 |
| nixonix | btw i dont think i buy that 1000x. want confirmation at least | 03:52 |
| LjL | yeah okay, it's not certain | 03:53 |
| LjL | but even without that, the rest of what i said i think mostly remains | 03:53 |
| nixonix | if you fill the air with 1000x particles, especially indoors where floor and ceiling limits, youd think almost everybody would get infected (while its not necessarily the same in air than in mucous) | 03:54 |
| LjL | 1000x does seem like a lot, i don't know how people don't just die right away with 1000x the viral load as alpha | 03:54 |
| nixonix | also, if its 1000x in mucosal cells, why not in every or most other cells too. then the lethality would probably be higher, unless this variant uses another receptor that is mostly present in mucosal cells (which dont have that much ace2( | 03:56 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +38260 cases (now 31.3 million), +10554 deaths (now 430024) since a day ago | 04:00 |
| nixonix | it infects us when they reopen everything. most adults when vaccinated, and kids without | 04:00 |
| nixonix | then we will see what happens | 04:00 |
| nixonix | maybe if the hospital admissions increase too much, they will cut the peak with reinstated measures for awhile | 04:00 |
| LjL | i'm worried here in the alps with my parents, in august it will be very crowded, and while back at home they had groceries delivered, they'll be going to supermarkets here, and i'm seeing they have a showcase of very crappy surgical masks, not FFP2 :\ see, this is what believing that "the vaccine will end it" makes people do | 04:00 |
| LjL | joerg, ↑ if that helps explain why i reacted badly to thinking breakthrough disease is very rare | 04:01 |
| nixonix | so lc study, brain, telomeres, pancreatic b-cell islet etc study are crucial before they just let it rip | 04:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: 80% of vaccinated COVID carriers didn't infect anyone in public spaces -- report → https://is.gd/7be6Pk | 04:35 |
| LjL | "vaccinated COVID carriers", that's a new term... i assume it means asymptomatic positives | 04:44 |
| LjL | "according to a television report on Saturday" ooookaaay | 04:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: French protesters reject Covid-19 passes, vaccine mandate → https://is.gd/YHd6Tm | 04:45 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +25853 cases (now 5.7 million), +26 deaths (now 129197) since 23 hours ago — France: +11714 cases (now 6.0 million) since 23 hours ago — Italy: +5138 cases (now 4.3 million), +5 deaths (now 127942) since a day ago — Togo: +102 cases (now 15072) since a day ago | 05:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Guinea-Bissau: +60 cases (now 4208) since a day ago — Netherlands: +4373 cases (now 1.9 million), +3 deaths (now 17937) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +396 cases (now 1.4 million) since 23 hours ago | 05:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 784: Virtually live from ASV: Moriah and Joseph join the nearly complete TWiV team to discuss their work on genetic variation and adaptability in herpes simplex virus, and how rotavirus infection disrupts intracellular calcium homeostasis. Live streamed during the 2021 annual meeting of the American Society for Virology. → https://is.gd/wgU8pO | 06:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Unvaccinated snow leopard at San Diego Zoo catches COVID-19 → https://is.gd/dRCWXk | 06:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Cambodia: They were once luxury venues, now they are grim Covid-19 camps → https://is.gd/3sYeGc | 07:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mexico City, Mexico: +8978 cases (now 756701), +71 deaths (now 35375) since a day ago — Jalisco, Mexico: +2181 cases (now 99586), +36 deaths (now 12940) since a day ago — New York, United States: +1897 cases (now 2.1 million), +3 deaths (now 53804) since 23 hours ago — Alabama, United States: +1888 cases (now 569131), +11 deaths (now 11483) since 23 hours ago | 07:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Olympics: Organisers report 10 more Covid-19 cases, DeChambeau tests positive → https://is.gd/9x8jcA | 07:51 |
| joerg | some good news: we got R_t < 1 (SIC!) today in Germany, with a 7d increase in absolute new cases from only 95 (1292 -> 1387) 7%/7d | 07:59 |
| joerg | maybe an artifact, but maybe just our preemptive change in attitude and behavior | 08:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +39665 cases (now 31.4 million), +360 deaths (now 430384) since 4 hours ago | 08:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: “We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April”: Reflections on a Failed Prediction: Surgical oncologist Dr. Marty Makary predicted in February that we would have herd immunity to COVID-19 in April. In late July now, it is clear that we do not, but Dr. Makary continues to make dubious and outright incorrect statements about [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ARNfRo | 09:02 |
| * saviortime[m] < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/d8b67783bd42facdfea7656be090a312b83cfa13/message.txt > | 09:03 | |
| genera | giantmeteor! let it all end already! | 09:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Sindh, Pakistan: +1683 cases (now 364784), +21 deaths (now 5814) since 3 hours ago — Meghalaya, India: +693 cases (now 60597), +5 deaths (now 1014) since 3 hours ago — Punjab, Pakistan: +529 cases (now 352682), +15 deaths (now 10939) since 3 hours ago — Azad Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan: +201 cases (now 22886), +1 deaths (now 610) since 3 hours ago | 10:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Malaysia's total coronavirus infections rise above 1 million → https://is.gd/ktgrh0 | 10:55 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +1473 cases (now 3.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 11:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Large study finds COVID-19 is linked to a substantial drop in intelligence → https://is.gd/uwcZfW | 12:27 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Sistemi Alimentari, il Presidente Draghi interviene al Pre-Vertice delle Nazioni Unite ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/il-presidente-draghi-interviene-al-pre-vertice-del-summit-sui-sistemi-alimentari-delle ) | 12:28 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +17045 cases (now 1.0 million), +92 deaths (now 7994) since 23 hours ago | 13:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Australians may face longer lockdown after "reckless" mass protests → https://is.gd/DaBwg7 | 14:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +1539 cases (now 680556), +18 deaths (now 9713) since a day ago | 14:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: French Senate approves vaccine pass despite protests; German politicians divided → https://is.gd/cHlCc9 | 14:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Australia once reveled in being the ‘lucky country’ on Covid-19. Now weary Aussies ‘feel like prisoners’ → https://is.gd/wvVkWv | 15:20 |
| SaturdaySunday | test | 16:02 |
| SaturdaySunday | https://z3news.com/w/freedom-of-information-request-reveals-5522-people-have-died-within-28-days-of-receiving-covid-19-vaccines-in-scotland/ | 16:04 |
| specing | SaturdaySunday: How many of those died from covid, how many from unrelated causes, how many were directly caused by vaccines and how many unknown? | 16:07 |
| SaturdaySunday | you will never know the truth as gov'ts are hiding anything negative | 16:08 |
| SaturdaySunday | you can believe your gov't | 16:08 |
| SaturdaySunday | like a good citizen | 16:08 |
| specing | I knowthe truth. The truth is that you are intentionally spreading FUD | 16:08 |
| SaturdaySunday | the dr. that discovered the mrna vaccines is speaking about them, the man himself, i think he know a thing or 2 | 16:09 |
| SaturdaySunday | specing: you just dont like it cuz you disagree | 16:09 |
| specing | And what's he speaking about them? And which doctor? And sources, please | 16:09 |
| specing | Looks like 4_329 people died in may 2021 in Scotland. Or in other words: "freedom-of-information-request-reveals-4329-people-have-died-within-28-days-of-drinking-water-in-scotland" | 16:10 |
| SaturdaySunday | sure one momment | 16:11 |
| specing | from this we can conclude that water is highly toxic and you should stop drinking it | 16:11 |
| SaturdaySunday | you are just being silly | 16:11 |
| specing | I'm putting this in your words | 16:11 |
| SaturdaySunday | no you are just showing how you are not open minded | 16:12 |
| SaturdaySunday | https://news.yahoo.com/single-most-qualified-mrna-expert-173600060.html | 16:12 |
| SaturdaySunday | read it | 16:12 |
| joerg | oh gosh, not again please! | 16:12 |
| specing | I'm showing how I'm not an idiot | 16:12 |
| SaturdaySunday | ok name calling , how about this, go fuck yourself? | 16:13 |
| SaturdaySunday | you ARE an idiot | 16:13 |
| specing | joerg: please, can you ban these people, I feel like my IQ drops every time one of them shows up | 16:13 |
| SaturdaySunday | goodbye loser | 16:13 |
| specing | LjL: | 16:13 |
| joerg | I wish I could, up to LjL though | 16:13 |
| joerg | poor sods, they have very inappropriate means to deal with their own anxiety and lack of information/knowledge | 16:14 |
| specing | Ah, it continues in PM | 16:14 |
| specing | 16:14 <SaturdaySunday> you're a little child , go fuck yourself loser | 16:15 |
| joerg | oh gosh | 16:15 |
| specing | 16:14 <SaturdaySunday> you wann cry a bit? | 16:15 |
| specing | 16:14 <SaturdaySunday> stupid moron | 16:15 |
| specing | 16:14 <SaturdaySunday> eat shit | 16:15 |
| specing | I was hoping to get some scientific sources to back up their claims, but it is what it is... | 16:15 |
| joerg | [25 Jul 2021 16:15:39] [Error] SaturdaySunday: No such nick/channel. | 16:16 |
| joerg | [25 Jul 2021 16:15:39] [Whois] End of WHOIS list. | 16:16 |
| joerg | [25 Jul 2021 16:15:41] [Notice] -NickServ- SaturdaySunday is not registered. | 16:16 |
| joerg | was that /umode +G ? | 16:16 |
| specing | Hmm? | 16:16 |
| joerg | block pribmsg from unregistered users | 16:16 |
| specing | ah | 16:16 |
| specing | nah, sometimes unregistered people pm me legitely. Like matrix users | 16:17 |
| joerg | then a simple /ignore should do | 16:17 |
| specing | they left already. And they'll keep changing nicks, anyway | 16:18 |
| joerg | ban the hostmask | 16:18 |
| joerg | once they changed IP, they will have lost your /query and won't usually re-establish it | 16:19 |
| joerg | >>open minded<< as a synonym for "believe every shit served to you, the weirder the better" | 16:23 |
| joerg | >>I'm showing how I'm not an idiot<< >>ok name calling<< ROTFL | 16:24 |
| joerg | yeah, I called MYSELF *NOT* an idiot, that must be damn embarrassing to anybody else | 16:25 |
| joerg | I more and more wonder if many of those "users" are actually just pretty simplistic Markov chain robots | 16:27 |
| joerg | on detecting "idiot" reply "ok name calling" | 16:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: ‘Seriously ill’ young people in current Covid admissions, expert warns. ‘We have had people under 30 in intensive care,’ says Prof Adam Finn of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation → https://is.gd/TT5pot | 16:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +11291 cases (now 1.2 million), +228 deaths (now 19274) since 21 hours ago | 16:38 |
| joerg | I wish there was a semantic analyzer module (google, alexa, siri?) to detect >>you will never know the truth as gov'ts are hiding anything negative<< and >>government is lying<< (the latter when gvmt don't the former) and do an autoban | 16:39 |
| joerg | as if government was the single one source of info, what a gorgeous fallacy. Just close to "moon landing been all staged" | 16:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): COVID19: Testing of an entire Italian town shows antibody levels remain high nine months after SARS-CoV-2 infection, whether symptomatic or asymptomatic. → https://is.gd/p0cBnj | 16:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Daily COVID Deaths in Sweden Hit Zero, as Other Nations Brace for More Lockdowns | Jon Miltimore → https://is.gd/PYyj2F | 16:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Less freedom for the unvaccinated in Germany, Angela Merkel’s top aide warns → https://is.gd/gNiq5s | 17:13 |
| Rpifan | So I've got covid and so far I'm stable has only been a few dayd | 17:14 |
| joerg | dang! good luck pal! | 17:34 |
| joerg | getting steroids? | 17:38 |
| Rpifan | No | 17:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Today’s update to the #COVID19 Dashboard is experiencing a delay. On Sunday 25 July, 29,173 new cases were reported across the UK. 46,563,452 people have now received the 1st dose of a #vaccine. 37,160,659 have received a 2nd dose. Today’s deaths data is not yet available. (Via @PHE_uk) → https://is.gd/2ZzXq3 | 17:43 |
| joerg | I'm not up-to-date with latest, but if I would catch the virus I'd look up what's latest recommendations regarding prednisolon(?), Budesonid, or whatever been the brand names | 17:44 |
| joerg | are you vaccinated? | 17:44 |
| joerg | wait, how long since you caught it? I assumed it's acute | 17:45 |
| LjL | Spec_, to be fair, if about the same amount of people, or rather a little more, have died in a month after taking a COVID vaccine as the number of people who died after drinking water (i.e. in total) a month, that does sound, in the absence of other information, like a strong reason for concern, unless *ALL* scottish people took a vaccine during one month | 17:51 |
| LjL | i conjecture that the excess deaths within 28 days of taking the vaccine may be due to COVID, but still your counterexample isn't really a counterexample | 17:52 |
| joerg | LjL: where did it say _excess_ deaths? I read it as "of the observed cohort, xxxx people (in total) died (for whatever reason) during a timespan defined by $whatever" | 17:56 |
| LjL | yes, nevermind "excess", i'm just used to typing that | 17:57 |
| LjL | but it's saying that *among the people who took a vaccine in one month*, 5000 died. specing was also saying that *among all people in Scotland in one month*, 5000 died (roughly) | 17:58 |
| LjL | that doesn't sound like "oh, that's correct them, business as usual" | 17:58 |
| LjL | the cohort of "all people in Scotland" is much larger than the cohort of "the Scots who took a vaccine in one month" | 17:58 |
| LjL | sorry, just because that person was likely wrong doesn't mean i'm going to ignore some obvious statistical anomalies that get mentioned | 17:59 |
| specing | I took water as an example because everyone has to drink water to survive and therefore I could just take the total monthly death count | 18:01 |
| joerg | did you detect any statistical anomalies? I admit I didn't even open that link since the "headline" already suggested they did _not_ look at statistical anomalies or excess deaths, sounded to me like "we watched an number of people and in month X N of them died" and I assume they did *not* compare that to another month where same cohort probably had exactly same amount of fatalities no matter if they got vaccinated or drank magnetized water or not | 18:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Post-Covid diet for people with chronic conditions: What foods to eat and when → https://is.gd/TGg5dp | 18:04 |
| LjL | welli wanted to get good numbers on how many people died daily in Scotland but somehow https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/download only gives me a choice of "metrics" that all refer to vaccination. i thought i'd get case data and deaths too. | 18:05 |
| LjL | joerg, if you don't see an anomaly in "5000 people died in a month in scotland IN TOTAL" and "5000 people died in a month in scotland AFTER GETTING THE VACCINE", i don't really know how to spell it out | 18:05 |
| joerg | LjL: I don't defend any example specing gave, I say the original post been bogus | 18:07 |
| LjL | well i didn't address you, i addressed specing (or actually Spec_ but that was a mistake) | 18:07 |
| LjL | so there is that | 18:07 |
| joerg | while you seem to mix the original post/statement with the water example specing replied wit | 18:07 |
| specing | joerg: I opened the website. it says exactly that, N people died in the month after taking the vaccine. Didn't specify a breakdown of death reasons or anything | 18:08 |
| joerg | the original URL didn't suggest there were any statistic anomalities, rather it suggested somebody made this shit up | 18:08 |
| specing | joerg: the "news" site is heavily biased | 18:08 |
| LjL | i "seem to mix"? i was exactly talking about that | 18:09 |
| LjL | am i not allowed to talk about a parallel example that was made? | 18:09 |
| LjL | if you want to talk about something different from what i was talking about feel free to do it without bringing me up! | 18:09 |
| LjL | holy shit | 18:09 |
| joerg | meh, you are very trigger happy lately eh? | 18:09 |
| specing | Ok, what | 18:10 |
| joerg | >><LjL> i conjecture that the excess deaths within 28 days of taking the vaccine<< were there any? >> <LjL> sorry, just because that person was likely wrong doesn't mean i'm going to ignore some obvious statistical anomalies that get mentioned<< was there any? | 18:13 |
| joerg | and no, both are _not_ related to anything specing said | 18:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: GOP lawmaker who refused to wear mask reportedly 'really, really sick' with COVID-19 → https://is.gd/CuftRQ | 18:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +30524 cases (now 5.7 million) since 18 hours ago | 18:30 |
| joerg | maybe I'm completely missing the point, but I don't see where so it would have helped to tell me where I did. >>joerg, if you don't see an anomaly in "5000 people died in a month in scotland IN TOTAL" and "5000 people died in a month in scotland AFTER GETTING THE VACCINE", i don't really know how to spell it out<< didn't give me a clue | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): COVID19: Dendritic cell deficiencies persist seven months after SARS-CoV-2 infection → https://is.gd/D9MIoL | 18:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: As Spain swelters and Covid cases grow, pool renting app thrives → https://is.gd/3r2pLn | 19:05 |
| joerg | !w anomaly | 19:08 |
| joerg | %w anomaly | 19:08 |
| Brainstorm | joerg, anomaly — noun: 1. A deviation from a rule or from what is regarded as normal; an outlier, 2. Something or someone that is strange or unusual, 3. (sciences) Any event or measurement that is out of the ordinary regardless of whether it is exceptional or not, 4. (astronomy) Any of various angular distances, 5. [... want %more?] → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anomaly | 19:08 |
| * joerg doesn't see an obvious statistical anomaly in either of "5000 people died in a month in scotland IN TOTAL" and "5000 people died in a month in scotland AFTER GETTING THE VACCINE". Maybe a conflict between the two regarding their meaning, so they are not comparable, but that's not my definition of an anomaly. Maybe that's the root cause, I really don't get it. I'd really appreciate somebody explains to me where that anomaly is supposed to be, in detail | 19:27 | |
| Rpifan | I do hope I don't end up with long covid | 19:35 |
| joerg | good luck! | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: Bangladesh: No space will be left in hospitals if COVID-19 cases keep rising: Bangladesh govt warns → https://is.gd/gO5Btf | 19:36 |
| Rpifan | Ivd got extreme exhaustion as it is from the narcolepsy | 19:36 |
| joerg | how long since you presumably caught it? | 19:36 |
| Rpifan | I had a negative covid test Tuesday first symptoms presented Thursday Friday I had a positive self test from the pharmacy | 19:37 |
| joerg | so acute. You already got medical advice? | 19:37 |
| Rpifan | No. I called the local health ppl but they don't open again until Monday | 19:38 |
| joerg | dang | 19:38 |
| Rpifan | My doctors office also closed just after I got the test | 19:38 |
| Rpifan | I'm not home I'm on vacation | 19:38 |
| Rpifan | Thank God I speak Spanish | 19:38 |
| joerg | ooh, that's damn unfortunae | 19:38 |
| Rpifan | Spain really is fucking up the management of covid | 19:39 |
| Rpifan | The no real planning | 19:39 |
| joerg | could you contact your own usual MD? give them a phonecall? | 19:40 |
| Rpifan | Nah they closed up shop at 5pm on Friday | 19:41 |
| Rpifan | And they won't open until tomorrow | 19:41 |
| Rpifan | So let's see if they get back to. Me | 19:41 |
| Rpifan | Most important the Spanish govt is supposed to pay for the covid costs | 19:42 |
| joerg | well, it's not long until monday morning CEST. Get in contact with covid-competent medical advice ASAP | 19:42 |
| Rpifan | I had to change into a private hotel room and thank God my grandmother was able to help me pay | 19:42 |
| Rpifan | Yea so far it's not been going to horrible | 19:43 |
| joerg | I wonder what they do if you can't pay for that | 19:43 |
| Rpifan | Just like a really strong flu | 19:43 |
| Rpifan | In theory the Spanish govt will take care of the costs | 19:43 |
| Rpifan | But again the hostal I was staying at had no clue about anything | 19:43 |
| Rpifan | And they advised me to just leave and go somewhere else | 19:44 |
| Rpifan | Big mess | 19:44 |
| joerg | oh my | 19:44 |
| joerg | this sucks | 19:44 |
| Rpifan | Yea | 19:45 |
| joerg | I'd guess taking aspirin won't hurt, and I personally would probably try to get prednisolon (corticoid) and a cortinson inhaler. However I'd review any links regarding cortison / corticoid posted in here during last 6 months before doing so. Please get in contact to some MD ASAP | 19:47 |
| Rpifan | I do have a steorodial inhalter | 19:48 |
| joerg | use it! | 19:48 |
| joerg | maybe even double the prescribed dosage | 19:49 |
| Rpifan | Why | 19:49 |
| joerg | corticoids are relatively save even on massive overdosage, as long as you only take that for a few days | 19:50 |
| joerg | when I had an issue with burning flat and probably suffered some mild smoke intoxication, the ER MD gave me a corticoid inhaler and told me "5 shots every 10 minutes until tomorrow it's empty" | 19:51 |
| joerg | read the paper that came with the inhalte, at least go for max dosage listed in there | 19:52 |
| joerg | inhaler | 19:52 |
| Rpifan | But why use it for covid | 19:54 |
| joerg | one of the root causes for severe covid cases is overshooting immune reaction. Corticoids moderate immune reaction | 19:54 |
| Rpifan | Ah true | 19:54 |
| joerg | that's why a while ago they listed (iirc) Prednisolon (or another corticoid pill) as the officially recommended treatment | 19:55 |
| ublx | prophylactic use though? you don't want your immune response to undershoot either | 19:56 |
| joerg | *please* check https://github.com/ljl-covid/links and https://is.gd/xpld3l (the latter has a full regex search feature) | 19:57 |
| joerg | ublx: Rpifan already has severe flu symptoms | 19:57 |
| joerg | [25 Jul 2021 19:43:27] <Rpifan> Just like a really strong flu | 19:59 |
| joerg | I'm *not* a MD but I think this indicates his immune system already is on 100%, maybe beyond. I strongly suggest getting competent medical advice ASAP | 20:00 |
| Rpifan | Yea | 20:00 |
| joerg | s/his/their/ | 20:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pakistan bans domestic air travel for unvaccinated people → https://is.gd/56Bz1N | 20:06 |
| joerg | http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/__covid-19/search?q=budesonid%28%3Fi%29 http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/__covid-19/search?q=prednisol%28%3Fi%29 | 20:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cuba: +8853 cases (now 332968), +80 deaths (now 2351) since a day ago — Italy: +4742 cases (now 4.3 million), +7 deaths (now 127949) since 15 hours ago — Germany: +1118 cases (now 3.8 million) since 22 hours ago | 20:09 |
| ublx | hmm. at least you're not likely to get into adrenal issues with inhaled (vs oral) steroids, but yeah, i wouldn't act on that story before getting from an actual doctor | 20:29 |
| ublx | *getting *it* from | 20:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19 may bring a new wave of diabetes: Report → https://is.gd/fzXtQP | 21:07 |
| joerg | ublx: maybe I'm a tad less reluctant since it happens I got both from my MD during the last years. Anyway yes, I'm NOT a MD and please het professional medical advice before using such stuff. Altrhough I implied Rpifan had a prescription for the inhaler and it's a clear statement of all medical doctors to NOT stop using those for covid, so if the assertion is correct then probably it's absolutely safe to continue (or resume) using the inhaler | 21:29 |
| joerg | unless the latest papers investigating budesonid and covid did find something different - I recommended to urgently read those before going that path since my knowledge isn't up-to-date maybe | 21:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +12669 cases (now 6.0 million) since 16 hours ago | 21:36 |
| ublx | i think anyone with a prescription for regular use of steroid inhaler is going to get into difficulty if they stop using it. i just don't know about the idea of massively hiking the dose beyond what symptoms indicate. i wouldn't hesitate to liberally hike the dose in line with worsening inflammation of airways, but i'm not sure i would hike the dose beyond that specific indication unless a | 21:39 |
| ublx | doctor told me to | 21:39 |
| joerg | :nod: | 21:41 |
| Rpifan | I dont use it all the time. Just when my chest gets tights | 21:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Germany mulls restrictions for unvaccinated people if COVID cases rise → https://is.gd/h4IFWC | 22:08 |
| joerg | Rpifan: that's not how corticoid inhalers are supposed to work. Anyway, if you're sure it's budesonid or another corticoid then you should use it according to latest recommendations in http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/__covid-19/search?q=budesonid%28%3Fi%29 I'd guess. Which would be either https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00160-0/fulltext (2021-04-09 >>Early administration of inhaled budesonide reduced the likelihood | 22:15 |
| joerg | of needing urgent medical care and reduced time to recovery after early COVID-19.<<) or the older https://nitter.eu/profshanecrotty/status/1359562956938219523 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.04.21251134v1 (2021-02-04 >>Conclusion Early administration of inhaled budesonide reduced the likelihood of needing urgent medical care and reduced time to recovery following early COVID-19 infection<<) | 22:15 |
| joerg | again, unless some more recent study found sth contrary to that. Disclaimer: I'm no MD, please get profesional advice ASAP | 22:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: Fauci says US heading in wrong direction as cases rise → https://is.gd/HSO5DV | 22:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Anti-vaxx conspiracy theorist tells rally that healthcare workers fighting COVID could face Nuremberg-style trials → https://is.gd/gzajfh | 23:39 |
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