| de-facto | .title https://www.cell.com/molecular-cell/fulltext/S1097-2765(20)30518-9 | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.cell.com: Coronavirus RNA Proofreading: Molecular Basis and Therapeutic Targeting: Molecular Cell | 00:02 |
| de-facto | "Mutations in the nsp10 domain that interacts with nsp14 resulted in a decrease in viral replication fidelity, and the structure of the complexed proteins suggested that nsp10 confers structural integrity and stability to the ExoN domain of nsp14 (Bouvet et al., 2014; Ma et al., 2015). Small-angle X-ray scattering (SAXS) analysis shows, in the absence of nsp10, there is a drastic deformation of the nsp14 exonuclease site, suggesting that nsp10 | 00:04 |
| de-facto | stabilizes the catalytic site of ExoN and renders it in an effective active conformation (Ferron et al., 2018)." | 00:04 |
| de-facto | joerg, ^^ so maybe that ? | 00:04 |
| nixonix | thats pretty old, now they understand a bit better some of those substances mechanisms. like for remdesivir i think delayed termination of elongation is pretty much confirmed | 00:05 |
| joerg | one thought that just occurred to me (while watching Lanz, for those who might do same :-D ): We should change our vaccination policy now: vaccination ONLY in low-incidence regions, as soon as the incidences go through the ceiling again, vaccination becomes forbidden. To avoid breeding variants, and with the very welcome side effect that those who hesitate now to get vaccinated "because it's low urgency, we have not many covid cases right now - maybe later" | 00:07 |
| joerg | will think again if they want to get the jab now or risk to get no jab at all later on | 00:07 |
| de-facto | yet breakthrough likelihood increases with time after being fully vaccinated, so its less in freshly vaccinated and more in those vaccinated long time ago | 00:08 |
| joerg | de-facto: ((maybe that)) sounds highly related, yes | 00:09 |
| nixonix | in france and italy those incentives have made vaccinations more popular (like no access to bars without, especially) | 00:09 |
| de-facto | variants are breeding occurs with tolerating high incidence in partly immune populations, especially if their immunity got similarities (e.g. due to having been raised to exactly the same antigen/vaccine) | 00:09 |
| nixonix | in uk the survey i linked above, showed lots of hesitancy in the spring. but then they got awesome coverage for over 35yo because people got scared | 00:10 |
| * de-facto notes to himself to proof read sentences after changing them | 00:10 | |
| nixonix | i mean in january, that survey was | 00:11 |
| nixonix | im pretty sure i saw some article refering to paper where in their modelling 60% vaccine coverage and lots of infections and low npi was ideal for breakthrough variants to emerge. i try to find it some day | 00:13 |
| joerg | nixonix: ((incentives)) we have that already, it's questionable how long we still could have exactly this nonsense, compare for >>[3 Aug 2021 21:09:54] <joerg> HAHA TV ZDF "frontal" just this minute: >>vaccinated still can import the virus just like unvaccinated, so not testing them is nonsense<< << and how effective it will turn out to be in the end | 00:14 |
| de-facto | im telling that since reproduction number of Delta was known | 00:15 |
| joerg | :nod: | 00:16 |
| nixonix | yeah they can spread it a lot during the first several days IF they have fresh infection, but they get infected a lot less often. so its better than negative rapid tests, and also increases vaccine coverage | 00:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID Zotero group: Long covid—mechanisms, risk factors, and management: Type Journal Article Author Harry Crook Author Sanara Raza Author Joseph Nowell Author Megan Young Author Paul Edison URL https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1648 Rights Published by the BMJ Publishing Group Limited. For permission to use (where not already granted [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/kXXzem | 00:16 |
| nixonix | and rapid tests miss lots of cases. and many of the certificates are fake, or bought from testers who dont actually test the samples. harder to fake official vacc certificates | 00:17 |
| joerg | nixonix: tricky | 00:17 |
| joerg | very tricky evaluation what gonna work out better in the end | 00:18 |
| de-facto | rapid tests made by medical professionals in clinic catched only ~ 40% of the PCR positive, hence only 2 out of each 5 PCR-positive | 00:18 |
| TurboTech | Wait timeout | 00:18 |
| joerg | ouch | 00:18 |
| Sky_Net | hey guys, how's situation in US? | 00:19 |
| TurboTech | I perform PCR testing | 00:19 |
| nixonix | thats bad, but maybe easier with indian variants high viral loads? | 00:19 |
| nixonix | you posted that link another day, you still have the link? | 00:19 |
| TurboTech | Rapid tests and PCR are not the same | 00:19 |
| TurboTech | Ok They are saying Antigen tests are only able to pick up about 40% of the positives that PCR tests would have called. | 00:20 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(21)00248-6/fulltext | 00:20 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Clinical performance evaluation of SARS-CoV-2 rapid antigen testing in point of care usage in comparison to RT-qPCR - EBioMedicine | 00:20 |
| TurboTech | Bingo | 00:20 |
| Sky_Net | our lab makes PCR too, but mostly we make test modules, 600 of them every week, one module can test 96 ppl | 00:20 |
| nixonix | yeah, just found from tab history, but thanks anyway | 00:21 |
| lunatunes | Hey guys. Got my first shot of the vaccine today. | 00:21 |
| TurboTech | Luna I did too | 00:21 |
| lunatunes | Which one? | 00:21 |
| TurboTech | Maderna | 00:21 |
| joerg | Sky_Net: those "rapid PCR"? | 00:21 |
| TurboTech | They asked if I wanted J and J and I was like, "I want to Live" | 00:21 |
| lunatunes | I got Pfizer. I was told Pfizer has been working better against Delta. But I wanted maderna | 00:22 |
| TurboTech | Define Rapid PCR | 00:22 |
| TurboTech | abbot was taken of the market | 00:22 |
| TurboTech | Cephiad makes a one hour PCR that is ok. | 00:22 |
| lunatunes | Now I'm trying not to freak out wondering if I will feel symptoms lolol | 00:22 |
| joerg | the ink jet printer sized "PCR alike" very fast test machiones and modules they use | 00:22 |
| joerg | where a test result takes 1 hour | 00:23 |
| TurboTech | We run them | 00:23 |
| TurboTech | That would be Cephiad | 00:23 |
| joerg | iirc they don't use temperature cycling or somesuch | 00:23 |
| TurboTech | We run an Eplex and a BD max as well they take 2 and 4 hours respectively. | 00:23 |
| Sky_Net | joerg: not sure, we immobilize protein at the bottom of the hole... | 00:23 |
| Sky_Net | im not boilogist, im chemist, mainly i synthesize oligonucleotides | 00:24 |
| joerg | they were a big thing before quicktests became available | 00:24 |
| de-facto | TurboTech, out of interest in the technical process to run PCR tests in a high throughput setup: is it true that they re-use the same pipettes for the probes and just calibrate thresholds in such a way that the resulting cross-contamination between the samples is not causing false positives? | 00:24 |
| de-facto | like with the pipette robots i mean | 00:25 |
| Sky_Net | probably quick ones...company hired science team, they developing quick test that can make quantitive analysis | 00:25 |
| nixonix | it seems the market slot for these didnt age well (when its almost all 617.2 nowdays) | 00:26 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medicaldevice-network.com/news/eurofins-introduces-new-assay-for-indian-sars-cov-2-variant/ | 00:26 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medicaldevice-network.com: Eurofins introduces new assay for Indian SARS-CoV-2 variant | 00:26 |
| Sky_Net | de-facto: these automatic laboratiories cost very much, buy they are great | 00:27 |
| nixonix | now they are buying panels that recognize several respiratory viruses. winter is coming, rhino time when schools start | 00:27 |
| de-facto | yes but we need high throughput | 00:27 |
| Sky_Net | no one is cross contaminaiting anything, everyone work very hard( I'm very tired | 00:28 |
| TurboTech | Sorry I got pulled away. I am not sure. I work at night and days use the bigger instruments. I use the Cephiad. | 00:30 |
| TurboTech | We were running the Flu,Sars CoV-2 and RSV cartridge on every admission. | 00:31 |
| TurboTech | Amazing hat Flu was not a factor at all this year. Masks work for flu. I do not think surgical or underware works for Sars CoV 2. You need an N95 in my opinion. We had I think a total of like 5 flus. | 00:32 |
| TurboTech | US total was like <2000 | 00:32 |
| de-facto | i was never in such a lab, but i have seen those test tubes in these 96 matrix arrays and then pipette robots go in each row, over all the other rows, and with the same pipettes, so that would mean the process itself would have to be calibrated in a way that any possible cross-contamination between samples would not amplify up to a threshold | 00:33 |
| nixonix | africa had a lot more flu. but not much sars2 | 00:33 |
| nixonix | exp in SA and couple other countries near it | 00:33 |
| nixonix | sub-saharan africa, that is | 00:33 |
| TurboTech | considering we tested every admitted patient we should have picked up more asymptoptomatic cases. There were just none. | 00:33 |
| TurboTech | Flu wise | 00:34 |
| Sky_Net | our employees were sick too, whole brigade that worked at preparing blood and tissue samples. Girl was working on PCR, making test for employees, when she was making her own test, she saw that she's positive, and just left home... | 00:34 |
| TurboTech | I just load up on Anti oxidants now on a daily basis to try to veer the curve in my favor. | 00:35 |
| Sky_Net | government said to companies: vaccinate 60% of employees or pay million fines and stop work for 2 weeks..that worked xD | 00:36 |
| de-facto | you are from Russia? | 00:38 |
| Sky_Net | ye | 00:38 |
| TurboTech | I asked earlier if I could talk about some science, I have some hard data | 00:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Niger: +21 cases (now 5658), +1 deaths (now 196) since a day ago | 00:38 |
| de-facto | ah yeah have seen that in the news (with the 60% vaccinated in companies) | 00:38 |
| TurboTech | It is not totally Sars CoV-2 related but it is. | 00:39 |
| * joerg idly muses if this electronic analog computer covid simulation needs some updates ;-) TBH I had much fun making it but I guess it's a rather pointless thing meanwhile | 00:39 | |
| TurboTech | In my studies on endothelium dysfunction and its relationship to Sars CoV-2 I came across some data that could be important. | 00:40 |
| joerg | https://tinyurl.com/yerdvq7c | 00:40 |
| Sky_Net | TurboTech: share your data | 00:40 |
| TurboTech | We (at work were finding) that Omega 9 fatty acids were protective first against oxidative stress. (in anecdotal studies) They have the ability to (probably polyphenols) coat the VLDL particle responsible for activating the ROS (Reactive oxigen species) which lowers nitric oxide. | 00:43 |
| TurboTech | So increasing Omega 9 fatty acids like Olive oil, you can decrease the amount of free radicals produced by saturated fats. | 00:44 |
| TurboTech | I started taking a shot of olive oil a day and in two weeks it reduced my LDL cholesterol and Total cholesterol by 10%. | 00:44 |
| Sky_Net | Well i thought its a well known fact | 00:45 |
| TurboTech | It reduced Triglycerides by 48% | 00:45 |
| TurboTech | That is huge | 00:45 |
| Sky_Net | agreed | 00:46 |
| TurboTech | My dad who was taking Statins for cholesterol also saw a decrease in LDL and Total Cholesterol by about 8% and a decrease in Triglycerides by 38% by adding th eolive oil | 00:46 |
| TurboTech | He lost about 40 pounds and his liver enzymes went down from high normal to low normal. | 00:47 |
| TurboTech | I think the olive oil helped to decrease liver adiposity and at the same time lowered liver inflammation. | 00:48 |
| Sky_Net | wow | 00:48 |
| TurboTech | This alone might have significant implications in Sars Cov 2 infection of the comorbidity kind. | 00:49 |
| `St0ner | the benefits of olive oil are well documented in academia, but not widely known amongst the general western population | 00:49 |
| nixonix | how about rapeseed oil? brassica rapa | 00:49 |
| TurboTech | We need to veer away from Omega 6 fatty acids because they activate the ROS | 00:50 |
| TurboTech | they are essential but we do not have to make it a point to add more. | 00:50 |
| Sky_Net | linseed oil is great too | 00:50 |
| TurboTech | So Fish oil omega 3 and Omega 9. | 00:50 |
| TurboTech | Avocados | 00:50 |
| TurboTech | Cashews | 00:51 |
| `St0ner | the impacts of the various ratios of omega 3 to omega 6 are well documented too. western diets have way too much omega 6 vs omega 3 | 00:51 |
| TurboTech | Exactly | 00:51 |
| de-facto | Oleic acid is in olive oil and Erucic acid is in rapeseed oil, both omega-9 | 00:51 |
| `St0ner | all of this is very old news :) | 00:51 |
| de-facto | so do we know which of those two is better in regards to that effect? | 00:51 |
| TurboTech | Omega 3 and Omega 9 are considered antioxidants. | 00:51 |
| TurboTech | Omega 6 has the ability to activate ROS and increase mitochondrial oxidative stress in endthelium which down regulates protective nitric oxid | 00:52 |
| Sky_Net | Personally i think for immune system its better to sleep well and keep colon healthy, eat daity products, they help produce immune cells | 00:53 |
| nixonix | it seems olive has also omega-6, but more -9 than rapeseed, the latter has much more omega-3 though | 00:53 |
| Sky_Net | *dairyt | 00:53 |
| TurboTech | so Vitamin D (hormone, Antioxidant) Melatonin (hormone, Antioxidant) resveratrol(Antioxidant) Quercetin(Antioxidant) Omega3 and 9 (Anti Oxidants) might play a dignificant role. | 00:54 |
| TurboTech | significant | 00:54 |
| TurboTech | Vitamin D is very important in T reg cell activation and TH2 anti inflamatory activation | 00:55 |
| TurboTech | I have been studying this incessently since March 2020 | 00:56 |
| de-facto | well, but what if some oxidative stress also could be employed to kill off cancer cells (the natural way)? maybe too many antioxidants also could not be good | 00:56 |
| TurboTech | that is a good point | 00:56 |
| TurboTech | But there is a bigger picture | 00:56 |
| TurboTech | The cancers if I am not mistaken that are taken out by oxidative stress are not as many as those taken out by anti oxidation if I am reading the research right. Anti Oxidants are also showing to be very important as adjuvents alongside chemo therapy. | 00:58 |
| TurboTech | There is a ton of polymorphasism going on as well. | 00:59 |
| Sky_Net | hmm...how about one-time big dose of projected radiation, targeted at most infected organs? Lungs/? That could kill all virus cells... | 00:59 |
| Sky_Net | Delta-radiation | 00:59 |
| `St0ner | eating a well balanced diet consisting of fresh food that looks like what the food was when it was alive/growing is all you really need to know | 00:59 |
| TurboTech | I think you are correct Stoner | 01:00 |
| `St0ner | eliminate ingestion of anything that's been processed/mixed/mashed/chemically-altered | 01:00 |
| `St0ner | any food that has seen the inside of a factory, probably detrimental to your health | 01:00 |
| TurboTech | My research points almost soley at Fructose and Refined sugar as being the biggest set up for most of the comorbidities that Sars CoV-2 is exploiting. | 01:00 |
| de-facto | well yeah i meant in a healthy individual comparing normal diet with some that absolutely maximized antioxidants, could there be the possibility that the natural way (without too many antioxidants) may have a lower risk of getting cancer than the one that managed to almost completely suppress oxidative stress? | 01:01 |
| `St0ner | american diets are so trash, everything they eat results in co-morbidities | 01:01 |
| TurboTech | de facto, I would have to say the natural way with normal foods is high in antioxidants. | 01:02 |
| `St0ner | i would bet less than 1 in 100 americans could tell you what a blue zone is, in terms of diet/health/lifespans | 01:02 |
| specing | `St0ner: yep and then you eat organic bio eco veggies that were grown next to a major highway | 01:02 |
| TurboTech | I am not saying that we can not enjoy food. | 01:03 |
| de-facto | TurboTech, yeah i agree, i meant taking lots of anti-oxidative supplements in addition | 01:03 |
| nixonix | i read about those antioxidant studies, for nutrition, couple years ago. back then they didnt really know what kind of antioxidants were beneficial enough to recommend. some of them increased growth of cancer cells | 01:04 |
| TurboTech | We just need to increase out antioxidants. We used to get fructose in fruits we eat, but we now rely on significant amounts of refined products that took the antioxidants out of the equation. | 01:04 |
| TurboTech | Well what does our body produce? | 01:04 |
| de-facto | (btw i dont know that, i meant it more like a question, could there be a "sweet spot" where benefit from antioxidants is the most while any possible disadvantages are not that present already?) | 01:04 |
| nixonix | they got some good results for mice tho, in a study in finland, increasing their life years (days?) with some antioxidant combo | 01:04 |
| TurboTech | Melatonin is one of the most potent antioxidants we know of. | 01:04 |
| nixonix | but said that it was much harder to find the right ones for humans | 01:04 |
| TurboTech | Vitamin D | 01:05 |
| TurboTech | Polypheonols | 01:05 |
| TurboTech | Keep it simple | 01:05 |
| TurboTech | Fish oils and high heat cooking oils | 01:05 |
| TurboTech | less reactive | 01:05 |
| nixonix | evidence in nutritional studies is usually very weak | 01:06 |
| TurboTech | Why is that? | 01:06 |
| de-facto | probably also often correlates with co-factors such as lifestyle etc | 01:06 |
| TurboTech | When we give Chemo to a patient we blast them | 01:06 |
| nixonix | its hard to find strong evidence. i dont know all the reasons, but thats what ive been reading, level of evidence accepted is weaker than in medicine | 01:07 |
| TurboTech | I understand. When a drug company designs a product they know how it works so they come to a conclusion based on their observations. | 01:08 |
| nixonix | things like is eating dark chocolate really healthy, or is it that those people that eat it usually have better other eating and living habits than those that dont | 01:08 |
| TurboTech | When researchers use already derived agents they may not understand them and design high powered studies. | 01:09 |
| TurboTech | or should I say design lower powered studies. | 01:09 |
| TurboTech | Anyway. | 01:10 |
| TurboTech | https://academic.oup.com/jcem/advance-article/doi/10.1210/clinem/dgab508/6321747 | 01:12 |
| Sky_Net | maybe maybe one day, the covid will fade away, and i'll feel whole again.. | 01:14 |
| Sky_Net | everyone got crazy, not crazy crazy, but on the edge, you know, they smile and act normally but explode on simple question.. | 01:16 |
| nixonix | why is vaccine popularity so low in russia? | 01:18 |
| gry | because they like overseas stuff | 01:18 |
| gry | it is more cool | 01:18 |
| gry | they say 'i wish i could get the <name of an abroad vaccine here>' | 01:19 |
| Sky_Net | because ppl dont trust government at all | 01:19 |
| gry | it is a remains of their life style under USSR, when getting into a capitalist world, even for one hour, was considered paradise | 01:19 |
| nixonix | while sputnik isnt great preventing infection with 617.2 it should prevent most of the severe cases. so way better than no vaccine | 01:19 |
| gry | doesn't the severity start on day eight? | 01:20 |
| Sky_Net | also majority of population are USSR dwellers, they know "listen government - act opposite" | 01:20 |
| gry | does getting the vaccine on day 1 or 2 of being infected help? | 01:20 |
| Sky_Net | untill all of them dies, russia will stay the same. politics play with that older group very cunningly... | 01:20 |
| Sky_Net | i did my vaccine | 01:20 |
| `St0ner | colombian variant is spreading in florida now | 01:21 |
| nixonix | if russian government bought 100 million doses of pfizer and moderna, would people there get vaccinated with those? | 01:21 |
| Sky_Net | probably not. they would think "why government spend so much money" etc | 01:21 |
| Sky_Net | government only robs people, why would they suddenly buy phizer...lol | 01:22 |
| de-facto | gry, nope on contrary, after first week of taking primer vaccination the attack rate is even above background | 01:22 |
| nixonix | how about if they were available in black market, and govt said dont buy them? | 01:22 |
| Sky_Net | then ofc, they would give any price to get it | 01:22 |
| nixonix | so theres your strategy then | 01:23 |
| Sky_Net | they getting fake covid certs from darknet for big money... | 01:23 |
| de-facto | `St0ner Lambda increasing even with Delta dominating? | 01:23 |
| de-facto | or what is Colombian variant? Gamma? | 01:23 |
| `St0ner | https://www.newsweek.com/colombian-covid-variant-spreading-areas-florida-1613503 | 01:23 |
| Sky_Net | new scam: ppl who bought fake certs recieve SMS saying pay 5x you paid for fake cert or we disclose info to government and you go to jail | 01:23 |
| Sky_Net | quite sucessfull scam | 01:23 |
| nixonix | what was kappa again. i hate those multiple names, vaccines, variants, drugs... | 01:23 |
| Sky_Net | sellers of certs, sold info on phone numbers | 01:24 |
| Sky_Net | darkweb and dark market making big money here, here | 01:24 |
| de-facto | B.1.621 "R346K, E484K, N501Y, D614G, P681H" is this the "Colombian Variant"? | 01:25 |
| de-facto | no letter yet, but mutations would indicate both increased fitness and evasive capabilities | 01:26 |
| `St0ner | The B.1.621 variant, which is being commonly referred to as the Colombian Variant, is responsible for 10 percent of COVID patients at one Miami hospital, according to a health official's report on Monday. | 01:26 |
| nixonix | i saw somewhere that with 617.2 in usa, it seemed to spread more among asians and less among latinos, than older variants | 01:27 |
| finely[m] | <TurboTech> "So increasing Omega 9 fatty..." <- There are not enough olive trees in the world to meet demand. The Italian Mafia are involved in large scale olive oil food fraud. Best to get the omegas from other foods. | 01:28 |
| finely[m] | https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the-olive-oil-scam-if-80-is-fake-why-do-you-keep-buying-it/?sh=2f5618b9639d | 01:28 |
| de-facto | https://covariants.org/variants/21H | 01:28 |
| de-facto | .title | 01:28 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From covariants.org: CoVariants | 01:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Panic-Buying And Transport Lockdowns. In Wuhan, It Feels Like Early Pandemic Again → https://is.gd/MGY2tM | 01:29 |
| de-facto | https://nextstrain.org/groups/neherlab/ncov/21H | 01:29 |
| TurboTech | Guys, thanks for the chat. I appreciate it. Got to go to sleep. Work tonight. Our numbers are going up. | 01:31 |
| de-facto | have a good working shift later | 01:32 |
| TurboTech | Finely,Oleic acid is the main Omega 9 | 01:33 |
| TurboTech | sunflower (oleic) Safflower(oleic), Olive Oil, Avocado Oil | 01:33 |
| finely[m] | <TurboTech> "So Fish oil omega 3 and Omega 9." <- Fish oil supplements are often racid as omegas are not shelf stable. Hemp seeds are worth investigating as a source - they don't rely on unsustainable fisheries and can be grown without huge amounts of pesticides and irrigation. | 01:33 |
| de-facto | https://outbreak.info/situation-reports?pango=B.1.621 | 01:35 |
| Sky_Net | %cases russia | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: Russia has had 6.3 million confirmed cases (4.3% of all people) and 160925 deaths (2.5% of cases) as of 14 hours ago. 166.5 million tests were done (3.8% positive). Fatality may lie between 2.9% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). +22010 cases, +788 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Russia | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Russia, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 01:35 |
| Sky_Net | %cases moscow | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: Moscow, Russia has had 1.5 million confirmed cases (11.9% of all people) and 25779 deaths (1.7% of cases) as of 18 hours ago. Fatality may lie between 0.6% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected) and less than 1.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries). +3330 cases, +75 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Moscow | 01:35 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Moscow, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 01:35 |
| LjL | maybe that notice gets old quickly ;( | 01:35 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/variants-concern | 01:37 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ecdc.europa.eu: SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern as of 29 July 2021 | 01:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bulgaria: +462 cases (now 426003), +3 deaths (now 18225) since a day ago — Ivory Coast: +158 cases (now 50499) since a day ago | 01:40 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/situation-updates/variants-dashboard | 01:43 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ecdc.europa.eu: SARS-CoV-2 variants dashboard | 01:43 |
| de-facto | https://gis.ecdc.europa.eu/portal/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/25b6e879c076412aaa9ae7adb78d3241 | 01:43 |
| de-facto | .title https://covid19-country-overviews.ecdc.europa.eu/ | 01:49 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From covid19-country-overviews.ecdc.europa.eu: Week 29, 2021 | 01:49 |
| Trippy72894_tmp | A friend in Holland says this. Is it right? | 02:05 |
| Trippy72894_tmp | "Letting viruses just move through the population will make them more infectious and less deadly, that's how viruses work." | 02:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Costa Rica: +4309 cases (now 411123), +40 deaths (now 5070) since 3 days ago — Gambia: +587 cases (now 8296), +15 deaths (now 227) since 6 days ago — Bermuda: +21 cases (now 2589) since 2 days ago | 02:05 |
| Trippy72894_tmp | and second: | 02:06 |
| Trippy72894_tmp | "All these lockdowns make the story longer and longer because the virus doesn't get to do it's normal thing and we don't increase immunity (which is much higher naturally than through vaccination)." | 02:06 |
| Trippy72894_tmp | So, how do I respond? | 02:06 |
| Trippy72894 | Sorry, did I miss anything? | 02:08 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, that's a myth, although it's an often-debated myth (the first one) | 02:08 |
| Trippy72894 | That's what I thought. | 02:09 |
| Trippy72894 | Both points? | 02:09 |
| Trippy72894 | oh the frist one | 02:09 |
| Trippy72894 | sorry, yes, okay understood | 02:09 |
| LjL | the second one is... eh, even if you really thought it would be okay to let the virus ravage through everyone just because it ends sooner, we now know that the virus keeps mutating and evading immunity and is able to re-infect, so it won't "end" just because we let it run wild | 02:09 |
| Trippy72894 | Ha! That's exactly what I thought. Plus, it would kill millions, right? | 02:10 |
| LjL | yes, although it already has anyway :( | 02:10 |
| Trippy72894 | right | 02:10 |
| LjL | but on the first point | 02:10 |
| LjL | it's not completely false, it has a grain of truth | 02:10 |
| LjL | it just doesn't really apply to the present short-term situation | 02:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Delta Strain Pushes Herd Immunity Threshold Higher: Virus Update → https://is.gd/reAN2I | 02:11 |
| LjL | the theorem is "virus will want to spread more, but kill less" | 02:11 |
| Sky_Net | wave of mutation | 02:11 |
| LjL | so far, the new variants spread more *and* kill more | 02:11 |
| LjL | the virus doesn't give a damn about killing us | 02:11 |
| LjL | most of the transmission happens *before* people get meaningful symptoms | 02:11 |
| LjL | so it doesn't matter to the virus what happens after that | 02:11 |
| LjL | if by having much higher viral loads (like seems to be the case with Delta), it spreads better, it will do that | 02:12 |
| LjL | if the same thing also causes more people to die from it, it won't care | 02:12 |
| LjL | but in the longer term, it's possible that it will fine-tune itself even further and cause less death while causing more spread | 02:12 |
| Trippy72894 | I understand. | 02:13 |
| LjL | i just wouldn't expect that before, say, 10-20 years, and i think those are the ballpark estimates i've heard from people who know better than me | 02:13 |
| Trippy72894 | I see. | 02:13 |
| Trippy72894 | And she is really, really smart. Goes to show you that people really have trouble getting correct info. | 02:13 |
| finely[m] | <Trippy72894_tmp> ""Letting viruses just move..." <- This is a general trend, but it can take decades to happen. Social distancing and masks have the opposite effect of selecting for mutations that make the virus more contagious. | 02:14 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1007566/S1335_Long_term_evolution_of_SARS-CoV-2.pdf page 5, scenario 4, for what is worth, since it doesn't cite any papers (like UK gov documents tend to) | 02:14 |
| Trippy72894 | checking... | 02:14 |
| LjL | also check the other scenarios if you want to get sadder ;( | 02:15 |
| Trippy72894 | :( | 02:16 |
| finely[m] | I think the evidence is vaccination give better immunity than an infection. | 02:16 |
| joerg | that too | 02:16 |
| LjL | well, different immunity at any rate | 02:17 |
| LjL | or... in Trippy72894's case, maybe not too different immunity :P | 02:17 |
| LjL | but with S-protein based vaccines, it's fairly different | 02:17 |
| Trippy72894 | that pdf is scary | 02:18 |
| LjL | it didn't make my day any better when i read it for sure | 02:18 |
| Trippy72894 | understood. | 02:18 |
| LjL | but aside from the doomsday scenario, all the "Background" information is fairly interesting | 02:18 |
| LjL | the stuff after the scenarios | 02:18 |
| Trippy72894 | checking.... | 02:19 |
| LjL | again with the caveat that it's not cited | 02:19 |
| Trippy72894 | sorry to ask this way but are we "screwed"? | 02:19 |
| * LjL shrugs | 02:19 | |
| LjL | probably? | 02:19 |
| himesama | define | 02:19 |
| LjL | even if COVID doesn't screw us, damn, there are being fires everywhere, and where there isn't fire there's devastating storms | 02:20 |
| Sky_Net | no doomsday, if it happens again, all world will close like CHINA - boom - no virus | 02:20 |
| LjL | i'd say in general we look pretty screwed | 02:20 |
| LjL | it's already happening again | 02:20 |
| LjL | and why didn't we do it the first time around | 02:20 |
| LjL | it was pretty obvious we should have done it, really | 02:21 |
| LjL | but we did not and kept not doing it | 02:21 |
| Trippy72894 | screwed as in this is not like some flu we live with and get kind of sick but life carries on. | 02:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Long-lasting Covid-19 symptoms rare in children: Children who become ill with coronavirus mostly recover in less than a week, research suggests. → https://is.gd/kD2QMY | 02:21 |
| LjL | apropos | 02:21 |
| LjL | long-lasting symptoms | 02:21 |
| LjL | that's one problem with getting it, although at least with vaccines i'm familiar with it, it *appears* that long COVID is made less likely by vaccines | 02:22 |
| de-facto | no i dont think we are "screwed", the more immune systems get to know how to deal with s-protein, the more of them will not freak out when seeing a new version of it, hence even with vaccine breakthrough we will not see the hospitalization rates and fatality rates from the very first waves/variants with mostly immunologic naive susceptibles | 02:22 |
| LjL | (but according to some estimates, only about half as likely, which isn't great) | 02:22 |
| LjL | de-facto, but if the virus keeps circulating in vaccinated populations, which it is doing now, it will inevitably evade further | 02:22 |
| Trippy72894 | hmmmm ok | 02:22 |
| LjL | will we have an effective third shot (or a nasal vaccine, or something) in time? | 02:22 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, you won't get a straight answer to this. it's kind of the question we all have in our head and it's very hard to think objectively about it | 02:23 |
| LjL | you'd have to be an alien on another planet | 02:23 |
| himesama | an antiviral that you can get access to immediately would be useful | 02:23 |
| LjL | have we found effective antivirals for COVID so far though? | 02:24 |
| LjL | at least ones that weren't arguably debunked rather quickly | 02:24 |
| himesama | i hav notivced that there is a lot of conflicting information lately | 02:24 |
| LjL | i seem to have noticed that too | 02:24 |
| de-facto | LjL, yes evade further, but maybe the immune system already learned not to freak out, even when a breakthrough infection takes place (as in lower hospitalization rates and long-covid rates), but the honest answer would be: we dont know yet the longterm trajectory | 02:24 |
| himesama | a new* antiviral that you can get access to immediately would be useful | 02:24 |
| Trippy72894 | understood | 02:25 |
| Trippy72894 | so whether or not we are "screwed" is still up in the air really. | 02:25 |
| himesama | also if we can understand cytokines better, but aht has been stiudies for a while now | 02:25 |
| himesama | idk if we know predictors for lc | 02:25 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, i can put it like this... for now, my primary goal is still "don't get COVID". although lately, partly due to the conflicting information i seem to perceive as himesama notes, i feel a bit more helpless about what i can do to avoid it | 02:26 |
| Trippy72894 | understood. | 02:26 |
| himesama | if we can find out what starts lc and prevent it that would be enormous | 02:26 |
| himesama | or if we can reverse it | 02:26 |
| Trippy72894 | Well, we're all walking about in masks again here in china, so unlikely we will get it | 02:26 |
| Sky_Net | i blame governments. they are afraid to lose power | 02:27 |
| Trippy72894 | oh and the man loose in the city a few days ago with delta, his family tested neg. odd. | 02:27 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, what is the perception around you of how effective Sinovac is? and also the other ones, what is there, CureVac = Sinovac, but Sinopharm is a different one, right? | 02:27 |
| Sky_Net | if they cut freedoms | 02:27 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, that is actually a bit odd | 02:27 |
| LjL | afaik Delta spreads so easily, a household would almost certainly get it | 02:27 |
| Trippy72894 | nobody knows anything here about how effective sinovac is. this is china. nobody knows anything. media is always vague and conveys no useful info. | 02:27 |
| LjL | Sky_Net, also similar question for you, what is the perception around Sputnik? | 02:27 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, not to go all political again, but isn't it a bit disappointing that they are like that, and if someone tries to complain, they are not really allowed to complain? | 02:28 |
| Trippy72894 | agreed, they ought to have got it. | 02:28 |
| Trippy72894 | sputnik? | 02:28 |
| de-facto | Sky_Net, thats too easy though, the pathogen spreads between people, so ultimately its the behavior of the people that determines epidemiological dynamics for giving the pathogen the opportunity to exploit all of its capabilities and properties | 02:28 |
| himesama | that is possibly beter in one respect than the west which politicizes it openly and states confidently false things. at least they wear masks over there. | 02:29 |
| LjL | Timvde, i think Sky_Net is Russian, Sputnik V is a (the?) Russian vaccine | 02:29 |
| Trippy72894 | oh you can complain, no risk. | 02:29 |
| de-facto | LjL, whut? CureVac is not SinoVac? | 02:29 |
| Trippy72894 | you can phone the health bureau but good luck getting a striagh answer. newspapers are vague here. people just all do what the govt prescribes. me too, happily. i want the bug gone. | 02:29 |
| Sky_Net | LjL: after 1st shot the next day i felt like a flu, but temperature is fine...weak body like beginning of flu and hurted in my arm where they did a shot. Looks like a local inflammation zone. Hurted kinda bad, couldn't lift up arm that easily. 3rd day after shot was OK. after 21 day, second shot was nothing. Temperature rised to 37.2 after one hour and then dropped back to normal. No pain, no flu symptoms... | 02:30 |
| himesama | big problem seems to be vaccinated take more risks | 02:30 |
| Trippy72894 | ah i have no info on sputnik here. | 02:30 |
| LjL | de-facto, i think CureVac is SinoVac, but Sinopharm is anothe rone | 02:30 |
| Trippy72894 | I got my shot and there was just a fridge full of sinovac I think it was. | 02:30 |
| LjL | Sky_Net, that sounds similar to AstraZeneca... and different from mRNA | 02:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +18279 cases (now 6.2 million) since 23 hours ago — Vietnam: +8429 cases (now 170190), +190 deaths (now 2071) since 21 hours ago — United Kingdom: +21813 cases (now 5.9 million), +81 deaths (now 129960) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +2194 cases (now 1.9 million), +2 deaths (now 17975) since 23 hours ago | 02:30 |
| Sky_Net | Either 2nd dose contains smaller amount of stuff, or immune system threated good... | 02:30 |
| Trippy72894 | we had zero symptoms other than a slightly sore arm | 02:30 |
| Trippy72894 | side effects I mean | 02:31 |
| de-facto | CureVac is the German company with non-nucleoside modified mRNA | 02:31 |
| LjL | Sky_Net, i don't know, in the case of AZ, it's the same stuff both doses, but people tend to get fewer side effects with the second | 02:31 |
| LjL | de-facto, oh, that's right, i'm sorry | 02:31 |
| LjL | there's another pseudonym for Sinovac | 02:31 |
| Trippy72894 | And why hasn't china sent boatloads of it to cuba??? | 02:31 |
| Sky_Net | well i told you my personal feel | 02:31 |
| LjL | %vax sinovac | 02:31 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Inactivated + alum CoronaVac is a Inactivated virus vaccine developed in China + Brazil by Sinovac + Instituto Butatan, which started distribution initially on December 2020 → https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/Sinovac [... want %more?] | 02:31 |
| LjL | de-facto, Trippy72894: oh, CoronaVac, that's what Sinovac is also called | 02:32 |
| LjL | all these *Vacs are kinda confusing, my bad | 02:32 |
| Trippy72894 | ah ok. | 02:32 |
| LjL | CureVac is indeed a German mRNA vaccine, which unfortunately didn't pass phase 2 or 3 | 02:32 |
| Sky_Net | But since i had inflammation and flu-like symptoms, it looks like that injected material really somehow attacked immune cells and thats how they reacted | 02:32 |
| LjL | Sky_Net, heh, i had no side effects from Pfizer (either dose, except a sore arm), and i was somewhat disappointed because, yeah, feeling a bit bad kinda gives you the feeling it's "doing something". but de-facto reassures me that reactogenicity and immunogenicity don't really correlate :P | 02:33 |
| de-facto | Sky_Net, Sputnik V uses two different Adenovirus cevtors to transport the recipe for the s-protein in form of a DNA plasmid, primer is Ad.26 (with less pre-existing immunity) booster is Ad.5 (with a bit more pre-existing immunity, but obviously works better than second time Ad.26) | 02:33 |
| de-facto | *Adenovirus vectors | 02:34 |
| joerg | >>all walking about in masks again here in china, so unlikely we will get it<< that sounds at best half correct. It's absolutely not like masks were a surefire protection, particularly not all types of masks | 02:35 |
| LjL | i didn't want to say that... | 02:35 |
| de-facto | so there may be two effects at play: other reactogenicity to the different Adenovirus vector, also different reactogenicity with re-challenge by the vaccination antigen (the spike-glycoprotein produced by the cells that were successfully injected with the instruction to produce that antigen) | 02:36 |
| LjL | but still definitely wear masks. if you can, get masks that are better than those ()-like "vertical" masks, the ones we get here from China are honestly bad, too much air comes in, they don't seal well. but maybe *in* China there are some better masks that aren't exported. | 02:36 |
| LjL | (talking about KN95 masks, if you just wear surgicals, be aware those mainly protect others) | 02:37 |
| de-facto | everything that reduces reproduction increases the likelihood of an infection chain to come to a dead end, if it eventually will be enough to contain a cluster depends on the average level of dampening the spread | 02:37 |
| joerg | a properly fitting FFP3(!) mask is iirc providing a factor 100 protection | 02:38 |
| Trippy72894 | joerg good point. | 02:38 |
| LjL | i don't think that means it protects from the virus 100% | 02:38 |
| LjL | it blocks particles it's designed to block | 02:39 |
| Trippy72894 | but that is combined with lockdowns, vaccinations, temp checks, quarrantine, and the whole QR code thing. | 02:39 |
| joerg | then, those masks never "fit properly" | 02:39 |
| LjL | it's not really designed to block a virus | 02:39 |
| LjL | yeah then there is that | 02:39 |
| joerg | factor 100 is 99% | 02:39 |
| joerg | 1/100 | 02:39 |
| Trippy72894 | don't they reduce transmission a lot, though? | 02:39 |
| LjL | joerg, FFP3 is 99%, again, over the things it's designed to protect, which isn't really "SARS-COV-2 virions" | 02:39 |
| Trippy72894 | or is delta way to contagious? | 02:40 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, probably. the studies on masks are really a bit shaky. | 02:40 |
| Trippy72894 | ok | 02:40 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, according to a study, Delta has 1000 times the viral load of Alpha on average | 02:40 |
| LjL | draw your conclusions :\ | 02:40 |
| joerg | LjL: yes, they are designed to protect against SARS-COV2 and other virus | 02:40 |
| Trippy72894 | wow | 02:40 |
| LjL | %links 1000 times | 02:40 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.07.21260122v2 (Viral infection and transmission in a large, well-traced outbreak caused by the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant) looks at 167 Delta (B.1.617.2) infections in mainland China that could all be traced to one origin case, and finds through PCR testing that the viral loads were, on average, 1000 times higher than previously [... want %more?] | 02:40 |
| LjL | joerg, they are designed to protect from particulate. | 02:40 |
| joerg | it's in the (german, at least) specs for FFP3 cert | 02:41 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.07.21260122v2 | 02:41 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: Viral infection and transmission in a large, well-traced outbreak caused by the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant | medRxiv | 02:41 |
| Trippy72894 | stupid question: why doesn't flu turn into something terrible, where covid does? | 02:41 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, flu has had millennia of time to fine-tune itself to "co-live" with humans | 02:41 |
| de-facto | "Daily sequential PCR testing of the quarantined subjects indicated that the viral loads of Delta infections, when they first become PCR+, were on average ~1000 times greater compared to A/B lineage infections during initial epidemic wave in China in early 2020, suggesting potentially faster viral replication and greater infectiousness of Delta during early infection." | 02:41 |
| joerg | FFP2 are not, FFP3 are | 02:41 |
| Trippy72894 | good answer ljl | 02:41 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, also, relatively speaking, flu is still pretty bad anyway. every year (except mostly 2021!) it kills a lot of people | 02:41 |
| Trippy72894 | true | 02:42 |
| LjL | and beware of flu next year, or maybe in 2023 | 02:42 |
| de-facto | actually Flu potentially can be really dangerous | 02:42 |
| LjL | "skipping" a year also may cause missing immunity | 02:42 |
| LjL | i've read a few worried takes about how bad flu could be in the next years | 02:42 |
| Trippy72894 | people here during the past year had way fewer bugs. | 02:42 |
| de-facto | look at 1918, they were unlucky and got a bad strain causing a LOT of damage | 02:42 |
| LjL | so, if you can, get vaccinated, even if in 2021, the vaccination was useless | 02:42 |
| de-facto | if such a super-virulent strain will emerge again? we just dont know | 02:43 |
| Trippy72894 | understood | 02:43 |
| LjL | yeah, the estimates on how many people died from the 1918 flu are still much higher than the deaths from COVID (and hopefully will remain so...) | 02:43 |
| himesama | my brain can't deal with finding out what antigenic sin and related concpts mean in pratice | 02:44 |
| himesama | something about vaccines or natural immunity precluding further generation of immunity against variants that are too close | 02:45 |
| de-facto | but the flu comes every year, so the portion of immunologic naive is low, our immune system knows it already, hence the probability of a flu mutation occurring that can completely fool with those immuno-competent hosts is lowered by the history of having seen the previous strains | 02:46 |
| de-facto | afaik 1918 some older generation was better protected than the young, because they still enjoyed some background immunity from a previous outbreak that the young immune systems did not see yet | 02:47 |
| LjL | himesama, that UK document i linked briefly covers antigenic sin and considers it "less likely" than vaccine failure due to simply variants | 02:47 |
| LjL | fwiw | 02:47 |
| LjL | "Antigenic sin has not yet been reported for SARS-CoV-2 so we consider this possibility less likely." ← conceivably if antigenic sin were to happen with this virus, it'd be already happening towards the initial variants | 02:47 |
| LjL | but i dunno, i won't pretend to understand it either | 02:48 |
| Sky_Net | if you watch old movie about epidemic with Lawrence Fishbourne...they predicted everything | 02:48 |
| de-facto | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin | 02:49 |
| de-facto | (hopefully we never see that with COVID) | 02:49 |
| joerg | sorry, I been wrong. FFP3 provide factor 30 (not 100). FFP2 factor 10 and FFP1 factor 4 for the concentration/exposure that is allowed | 02:50 |
| LjL | Sky_Net, i haven't watched Contagion yet, i'm still waiting for the "right moment" | 02:51 |
| LjL | joerg, i don't know what that means in practice. i think there is no guarantee that it will filter all virions, though. | 02:51 |
| joerg | and yes, also explicitly for SARS type virus, where FFP1 and FFP2 explicitly are *forbidden* for such threats | 02:51 |
| joerg | it means that a FFP3 mask filters 96.66% of particles, also SARS virus particles | 02:52 |
| joerg | if it's a Draeger X-Plore 1730 | 02:52 |
| himesama | do the mrna vaccines (in particular the non-active ingredients) enter the bloodstream or lymph? | 02:53 |
| himesama | do they circulate around body? | 02:53 |
| joerg | and they explicitly warn that the mask won't protect you from unhaling a single virus that already might make you sick | 02:54 |
| joerg | inhaling* | 02:54 |
| joerg | the masks reduce the risk | 02:54 |
| Trippy72894 | So, what will the world be like in say five years? | 02:54 |
| Trippy72894 | Worst case scenario. | 02:54 |
| de-facto | Trippy72894, which vaccine types are available in China? | 02:54 |
| Trippy72894 | I think sinovac and sinopharm? | 02:55 |
| joerg | by factor 30. If my counterpart is wearing a FFP2 then by factor 300 combined | 02:55 |
| de-facto | also some mRNA ones? i read there are collaborations with BioNTech and Fosun | 02:55 |
| joerg | if the other person is also wearing a FFP3 then factor 900 | 02:55 |
| Trippy72894 | Bottom line, in five years will things sort of get back to normal or what? | 02:56 |
| joerg | a single FFP1 factor 4, two FFP1 factor 4*4 = 16 | 02:56 |
| Trippy72894 | Or will we all be dead or unable to travel anywhere or what? | 02:56 |
| joerg | and surgical masks are a joke, they probably do factor 1.5 or somesuch | 02:56 |
| Trippy72894 | The whole short term thing seems so uncertain. Is the "after five years" picture more certain? Will this settle down? | 02:57 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, don't make me imagine a worst case scenario... but a "sort of expected" case scenario, for me, is that we'll still be struggling more or less the way we are now. except we'll be more tired, more anxious, generally more prone to anger, and some of us will be dead. | 02:57 |
| joerg | ope air and 1.5m distance by itself does a factor 100++, maybe factor 1000+ | 02:57 |
| de-facto | Trippy72894, do you know if there are mRNA vaccines against COVID in use in CHina? | 02:58 |
| joerg | ...prolly depending much on beaufort and direction of wind relative to both persons' relative positions ;-) | 02:59 |
| himesama | some will be dead and a lot will be seriously incapacitated | 02:59 |
| Trippy72894 | I think sinovac is not mRNA. | 03:00 |
| Trippy72894 | de-facto, i don't know more than that. | 03:01 |
| LjL | it's not mRNA, it's inactivated virus | 03:01 |
| LjL | himesama, true :( | 03:01 |
| Trippy72894 | yes, that is what I just read. | 03:01 |
| Trippy72894 | But it still works, right? | 03:01 |
| de-facto | i am just curious, because China scaled vaccination of its population massively, hence i wonder with what spectrum of vaccines given to the people | 03:02 |
| Trippy72894 | not sure, but they're about to do all the kids too. | 03:02 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, to some extent. the results didn't seem great, but they also seemed fairly different depending on the trial (there were trials in more than one country). but also you have Chile which got vaccinated quite early, i think with Sinovac (or Sinopharm), and still had a bad peak anyway | 03:02 |
| Trippy72894 | everyone i know is vaccinated here. | 03:02 |
| Trippy72894 | all adults | 03:02 |
| Trippy72894 | oh dear | 03:03 |
| Trippy72894 | what percentage of chileans were vaccinated? | 03:03 |
| de-facto | and also i am curious about the attitude of China towards the vaccines made in other countries, if they trust the technology or rather use their own etc | 03:03 |
| Trippy72894 | and was their peak delta? | 03:03 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, on the other hand, an inactivated virus vaccine may fare (relatively) better with variants, because it makes your body create antibodies to the *whole* virus, while mRNA and adenovirus vaccines only make it create antibodies to the S-protein, so if the S-protein changes, that's bad | 03:03 |
| Trippy72894 | the attitude is that it's fine. whatever works | 03:03 |
| himesama | is it possible to get used vials of vaccine to rub the contents on your skin to see if you react (medical issue)? | 03:03 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, i think their peak was not yet Delta, let me look at the data | 03:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Groups representing doctors, nurses call for mandatory vaccination of health-care workers → https://is.gd/sctegK | 03:04 |
| Trippy72894 | LjL interesting. okay, so sinovac may be good | 03:04 |
| himesama | what aspect of the vacine requires lots of refrigeration? what ingredients? | 03:04 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, we need studies with it wrt Delta | 03:04 |
| Trippy72894 | ok | 03:04 |
| joerg | I bring good news: most likely we'll be way better than now with dealing with the SARS-COV2 in 12 months already. I don't agree with LjL that we'll still do mostly same stuff and same situation in 5 years | 03:04 |
| Trippy72894 | chances of me visiting italy in five years with no mask and no quarrantines? | 03:05 |
| de-facto | himesama, the integrity of the RNA or DNA | 03:05 |
| LjL | i am known to be a pessimist :P | 03:05 |
| himesama | de-facto: thanks | 03:05 |
| Trippy72894 | this is by far the most depressing channel on IRC | 03:05 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, well, people from some countries (i don't really know which) can already visit Italy without quarantines, and masks are no longer required outdoors (but they are indoors) | 03:06 |
| Trippy72894 | but hey, life on earth has always been cheap. | 03:06 |
| LjL | people from the EU will probably need a green pass to enter Italy soon | 03:06 |
| Trippy72894 | LjL that's good, and in five years? | 03:06 |
| himesama | idk i think authorities are reliably bad and murphy's law, the instability of the world, climate change, and various other things can wreak havoc | 03:06 |
| Trippy72894 | Amazing to think that if people just stopped moving about for a few weeks before it got into animals, this whole virus would be extinct now. | 03:07 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, i really can't predict that. it may all seem much better in five years, but then maybe in five years and six months another variant will come out of deers, or cats, or hidden human infections, and we'll all have to lock stuff down again | 03:07 |
| Trippy72894 | hmmmm that's not good | 03:07 |
| Trippy72894 | ok | 03:07 |
| himesama | or a whole new virus by coincidence or a flu strain or whatever | 03:07 |
| Trippy72894 | 1.4 billion sitting ducks. | 03:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Reunion: +3014 cases (now 40245), +13 deaths (now 288) since 7 days ago | 03:08 |
| Trippy72894 | this is the most informative but depressing channel ever. | 03:08 |
| Trippy72894 | thank you all. | 03:08 |
| joerg | in 12 months we likely have: *) a booster shot and established Standard Operation Procedure for booster shots to deal with new variants *) first phases of tests of nasal vaccines that should change game a lot re shedding *) first really promising curative meds to fight severe covid symptomes *) maybe first plausible ideas of what's the deal with LC | 03:09 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, i've spoken the most to you. i kind of agree that in this situation, pessimism ≃ realism, but at the same time, you should get a wide range of opinions, as long as they are based on some decently solid reasoning | 03:09 |
| LjL | if de-facto or joerg think we'll be better off in 5 years, right now that's not exactly my prediction, but i take their opinions as valid | 03:09 |
| LjL | they could be right, i could be right, i could be run over by a truck tomorrow and then i won't have to care about COVID | 03:10 |
| LjL | Trippy72894, meanwhile, this took a while since i was multitasking, but about Chile: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Vaccine+doses&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~CHL shows they vaccinated people at a pretty steady pace starting in February, and they were at 100 doses per 100 people at the start of June | 03:12 |
| LjL | but http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Chile&cumulative=no&smooth=yes shows that after March, they still got two big peaks, worse than the first one they had | 03:12 |
| de-facto | my prediction is that it becomes endemic and that our immune systems become used to evasive breakthrough infections, hospitalization rates will (hopefully) continue to go down | 03:12 |
| himesama | whether we will know about lc is probably proportional to what investment we make into science on lc | 03:12 |
| LjL | but if you look at the deaths graph below, the deaths are fewer in the second and third peaks. but, unfortunately, they're still rather significant | 03:12 |
| LjL | in the UK, conversely, they had a lot of cases until recently but comparatively very few deaths | 03:13 |
| Trippy72894 | LjL: fair enough. cheers. | 03:13 |
| de-facto | LjL, but iirc in Chile many people assumed they would be safe with one shot already or was that another south american country? | 03:13 |
| LjL | that's not very strong evidence, but it seems to point to mRNA and AstraZeneca having better efficacy than Sinovac, especially on preventing deaths. also, the UK situation is with Delta, while Chile probably isn't | 03:13 |
| Trippy72894 | checking the chile link.... | 03:13 |
| himesama | if an antarctic ice sheet moves, we could in principle see a sudden rise in sea levels of several meters, conservatively. then population movements in florida, bangladesh, and other places. or if a major war broke out. then troop movements. that would not be good for npi. | 03:14 |
| LjL | de-facto, i don't know, it says people fully vaccinated are currently 64%. i don't know what they assumed, but i assume like many other countries in dire situations, they prioritized first doses at first | 03:14 |
| de-facto | yeah what i meant is that sometimes people assume one dose already protects them and they drop distancing, that leads to a big wave then | 03:15 |
| Sky_Net | Mutant strains will progress. Every infected is bio-reactor, more reactors - more juxtapozes of accidental virus change | 03:18 |
| Trippy72894 | Sky_Net: did you know the chinese CCTV camera thing is called skynet? | 03:19 |
| Trippy72894 | no kidding. | 03:19 |
| Trippy72894 | not a reassuring name. | 03:19 |
| LjL | my phone gets more Beidou satellites than GPS ones lately | 03:19 |
| Trippy72894 | "....drop distancing, that leads to a big wave then..." good point. could be right | 03:19 |
| Trippy72894 | Baidu? | 03:20 |
| LjL | no, Beidou, it's the Chinese equivalent of GPS | 03:20 |
| LjL | %wik Beidou | 03:20 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: The BeiDou Navigation Satellite System (BDS) (Chinese: 北斗卫星导航系统; pinyin: Běidǒu Wèixīng Dǎoháng Xìtǒng [pèitòu wêiɕíŋ tàuxǎŋ ɕîtʰʊ̀ŋ]) is a Chinese satellite navigation system. It consists of two separate satellite constellations. The first BeiDou system, [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeiDou | 03:20 |
| LjL | i also get a fair amount of GLONASS satellites, which is the Russian one | 03:21 |
| Trippy72894 | Ah ok. | 03:21 |
| LjL | i have a ZTE phone that supports all three system, it only doesn't support Galileo, which is the European system, so that's ironic since i'm in Europe :P | 03:21 |
| LjL | but Galileo was delayed a ridiculous amount of years and only a few phones support it | 03:21 |
| LjL | maybe the EU will make Galileo support mandatory for phones sold in the internal market at some point. Russia did it with GLONASS | 03:21 |
| specing | I dont really see the point in galileo | 03:22 |
| LjL | well what's the point in Beidou or GLONASS? | 03:22 |
| LjL | GPS "worked" | 03:22 |
| de-facto | independence from other systems is the point | 03:22 |
| specing | just a waste of money that could be used for telescopes/deep space missions | 03:22 |
| de-facto | as with every other system after GPS | 03:22 |
| * LjL shrugs | 03:22 | |
| specing | yeah, the three systems are enough already | 03:22 |
| specing | and if someone big happens that they get switched off... well.. galileo probably isn't safe from anti-satellite weaponry either | 03:23 |
| specing | something* | 03:23 |
| Sky_Net | oh guys what you think what if aliens will come - i think we should immideately counter-attack their planet with thermo-nuclear weapons | 03:23 |
| LjL | the potential threat is that they switch themselves off (except for the encrypted signals) | 03:23 |
| LjL | Sky_Net, i think that's a little close to impossible | 03:24 |
| specing | Sky_Net: I think that if aliens come they'll be far more peaceful than out own species | 03:24 |
| Sky_Net | we like show them kindness when they arrive, then send with them our best diplomats...and encapsulate thermonuclear bomb inside of them. So when they arrive to alien planet, like, ppl meeting them, mission of peace, etc - we push the detonator | 03:24 |
| specing | Sky_Net: since they actually had to survive to galactic exploration without killing themselves off with really advanced tech | 03:24 |
| LjL | that does sound like the Russian way | 03:25 |
| LjL | i'd add some poison somewhere, though | 03:25 |
| Sky_Net | that way we'll start our expansion, they won't try to get close to us again... | 03:25 |
| specing | Sky_Net: you severely underestimate the kind of a bomb needed to blow up a planet | 03:25 |
| Sky_Net | nah, we just blow thousands of aliens plus maybe a town | 03:25 |
| Sky_Net | nobody talks about planet, but about COURAGE of act | 03:25 |
| LjL | what if the aliens can fight back then | 03:26 |
| LjL | and have better nuclear weapons than ours | 03:26 |
| specing | nuclear? heh | 03:26 |
| LjL | or whatever | 03:26 |
| specing | straight up a few tons of antimatter accelerated to near speed of light and smahed into our planet | 03:26 |
| specing | smashed* | 03:26 |
| LjL | yes please | 03:27 |
| LjL | that sounds like a much easier death than years of COVID with gigantic storms and fires and sea level rising and wars and everything | 03:27 |
| de-facto | if aliens got the technology to visit us here they would not be interested in our level of technology at all, we would look like Neanderthals to them. They could, however, be interested in the result of billions of years "bruteforcing" of evolution, hence may see actions against bio-diversity as a thread to the one thing they could consider of value: genetic diversity | 03:28 |
| Sky_Net | no, by that nuke we kill their president and\or high government | 03:28 |
| Sky_Net | they will suffer much and will need time to build their attack... | 03:28 |
| specing | de-facto: I think they'd have some kind of a prime directive in place | 03:29 |
| specing | "earth exclusion zone. Humans inside. Do not enter" | 03:29 |
| Sky_Net | yeah after nuking their capital no one will mess with us! | 03:32 |
| de-facto | i mean we already could see that: are we more interested in the genetics and biological properties of apes or the tools they make to fish for ants? what would we do if we think we see an imbalance of species, e.g. one that dominates and destroys biodiversity? | 03:32 |
| joerg | de-facto: LjL: we see a slow but steady decline of R_t in Germany, despite to great progress in vaccination and even the opposite of improvements in NPI. Just some bait for thoughts and musings regarding the cause for that. We have school holiday, and thus we have a lot of people leaving germany for Mallorca or whatnot foreign destinations, but according to recent statements/estimations by scientists, both shouldn't be sufficient to compensate for Delta | 03:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Turkey: +24832 cases (now 5.8 million), +126 deaths (now 51645) since a day ago | 03:32 |
| joerg | despite NO great progress* | 03:33 |
| Sky_Net | someone should forge evidence that covid was aliens invention...to make public opinion about attacking them | 03:33 |
| de-facto | joerg, i am curious about how the opening of schools will impact that, if it would have a big effect we should see Delta wave taking off in those federal states that just finished holidays | 03:33 |
| LjL | joerg, i think we're seeing some decline in much of the EU, and just like the UK, i don't know how to explain it | 03:33 |
| LjL | http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=EU;United%20Kingdom&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes the UK peak was much higher, but the EU peak, which is milder, does seem to be on an (again almost symmetrical) winding down | 03:35 |
| * joerg has recurring 10seconds flashes where the human mind suddenly realizes that it has no clue about such stuff like "what is dark energy and why is it by far the most of stuff in this universe" or "what is this virus doing and why is the SARS-COV2 incidence dwindling in UK and EU" | 03:40 | |
| de-facto | i wonder how contamination dose correlates with symptomatic or severity of progressions, could it be that delta does spread, even through distancing and masks, but with much lower doses that result in mostly asymptomatic infections? | 03:41 |
| joerg | tbhose are moments of utter dyscomfort | 03:41 |
| de-facto | or maybe its something other similarities of EU countries, such as vaccine progression together with people doing distancing hitting the current threshold for Delta? | 03:42 |
| joerg | de-facto: not plausible | 03:42 |
| de-facto | i think the second scenario may be quite plausible though | 03:43 |
| joerg | go figure how long it took mankind to realize the correlation between rats and plague :-S | 03:44 |
| de-facto | i guess we would see higher seroprevalence as we would assume if we just looked properly (with some high sensitivity tests) | 03:45 |
| joerg | or just, right on topic, how long it took us to realize the relevance of aerosols | 03:45 |
| de-facto | but then the point where Delta gains momentum and runs over endemic with current circumstances depends on strong immunity (e.g. by recent vaccinations) and that is what most EU countries currently have: lots of freshly vaccinated | 03:46 |
| joerg | indeed we shouldn't do the mistake to take our maybe 50% of "fully vaccinated" for face value, the effects of vaccination may well take several weeks up to a one or 2 months or even more after second shot | 03:49 |
| de-facto | so imho it would be plausible that (together with current NPIs) the Delta waves just burn themselves out in their high incidence cohorts, and need "fresh susceptible" to re-ignite again, so either new cohort, or other conditions (such as waning immunity or seasonality) etc | 03:49 |
| joerg | that indeed sounds plausible | 03:50 |
| Sky_Net | when i first read about new strain name "Delta" I thought "boy its so cool name, such deadly consequent hits on humanity, first cool name COVID, and now DELTA, like that all was just alpha and bets, now try DELTA" | 03:51 |
| Sky_Net | When we reach Epsilon its kinda end, you know, E for END | 03:51 |
| joerg | and also keep in mind that some variants *might* work *better* with mild immunity in host than with a completely naive immune system | 03:52 |
| Sky_Net | and D in Delta is for Do your best | 03:52 |
| Sky_Net | at least we should make vaccines mandatory for all | 03:53 |
| specing | Sky_Net: real fun begins with Zeta aka Zombie | 03:54 |
| de-facto | no i am against mandatory vaccinations, we should make sure everyone got transparent and high quality information to gain trust | 03:54 |
| Sky_Net | Zeta strain will appear only 150 years later... | 03:54 |
| joerg | though I forgot the gory details on how that works, just that is related to binding force of the Spike and the virus also needs to detach from that binding eventually | 03:55 |
| joerg | seems a mild immune reactions may help on that | 03:56 |
| de-facto | the attaching on the receptor is only one step in the whole replication cycle, all the other steps also can optimize a variants fitness | 03:56 |
| de-facto | the s-protein is the main target of antibodies though, the high affinity ones being able to block the virion attacking to a cells receptor more efficiently | 03:57 |
| joerg | and we should finally get attenuated pathogen vaccines, the 'classical' stuff, like iiuc Coronavac | 03:58 |
| joerg | for those with a pretty tolerable skeptical attitude towards those mRNA based all-new vaccines | 03:59 |
| de-facto | example: even if cell entry is lowered by factor N (e.g. less fit but immune evasive s-protein), if later a cell would produce N-fold the virions (e.g. due to some other part of the replication process gaining fitness), would that not result in similar number of cells getting infected (hence higher viral load with lower infectiousness per virion)? | 03:59 |
| joerg | probably | 04:00 |
| de-facto | so maybe we also need to look at mutations in other essential parts of the replication cycle and not only s-protein | 04:01 |
| de-facto | my suspicion is that those mutations are underrepresented in terms of attention they deserve | 04:02 |
| de-facto | everyone looks at the s-protein only, sure its important, but if the other parts of the RNA would be irrelevant why are they still there and not having been deleted over time? | 04:03 |
| Sky_Net | okay mandatory, but if you dont take vaccine, then mild repressions | 04:04 |
| Sky_Net | ehm...restrictions | 04:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Asylum: ‘Locked up like animals’ — immigrant detention centers in the time of the coronavirus → https://is.gd/bqW3Pg | 04:07 |
| himesama | what wuld be the possible risks of the mrna ones? | 04:14 |
| Sky_Net | RNA is very hard to work with... | 04:18 |
| de-facto | hmm we should have a metric over the whole RNA sequence indicating the current positions importance for completing a full replication cycle in the type of cells that it infects in humans, e.g. how essential each part of the RNA sequence is 1) completing replication (e.g. if absence would lead to replication deficiency) and 2) optimizing fitness (e.g. if absence would lead to attenuated replication competent strains) | 04:27 |
| mrdata | the virus is pretty new in humans and some strains deleted hundreds of bases. | 04:27 |
| de-facto | very good point, probably some parts are just not relevant in human cells | 04:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Victoria hits doughnut day as it records zero new local COVID cases → https://is.gd/No1cqh | 04:29 |
| de-facto | others maybe absolutely essential (such as s-protein, but i suspect other parts aswell) | 04:29 |
| mrdata | interferon suppression disappeared in one strain iirc | 04:30 |
| de-facto | and maybe still other parts helping with increasing fitness (e.g. suppressing cellular immunity, manipulating cellular functions towards benefit for viral replication, having some "turbo-version" for some mechanisms that maybe also other cellular parts could do much slower etc pp) | 04:31 |
| de-facto | that could be quite interesting for understanding the reasons for some variants fitness but also the opposite, how to attenuate variants to such a low level of fitness that they could be good candidates for vaccines maybe? | 04:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nicaragua: +188 cases (now 9658) since 6 days ago | 04:35 |
| de-facto[m] | Correction: even s-protein is not absolutely essential, it also got other ways to infect cells | 04:41 |
| de-facto[m] | Have to search the papers again, but another time | 04:42 |
| himesama | never though i would ever say wish egeryplace could be like australia | 04:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +21542 cases (now 6.2 million), +58 deaths (now 112079) since 22 hours ago — Belize: +121 cases (now 14284), +1 deaths (now 338) since 3 days ago — United Kingdom: +16176 cases (now 5.9 million), +104 deaths (now 129995) since 22 hours ago — Guinea-Bissau: +90 cases (now 4588), +2 deaths (now 78) since 2 days ago | 05:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Police officer killed in violence outside Pentagon building: Few details about the episode were available after the Pentagon was placed on lockdown following what a spokesperson called a “shooting event.” → https://is.gd/W6BN15 | 06:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +4025 cases (now 31.7 million) since 22 hours ago | 07:04 |
| Timvde | LjL: I'm still a bit hesitant because of the delta variant, but given that literally everyone around me is vaccinated, I will probably soon stop with most of the extra measures and see what happens | 07:25 |
| Timvde | Like, I don't mind masking up in public/crowded places at all, but I'm just going back to seeing friends and family | 07:26 |
| himesama | the pentagon is on a reservation and it has a possibly non-military police force? | 07:31 |
| himesama | anyway lockdown = misfire of matching | 07:32 |
| himesama | Timvde: you are shedding just like any unvaccinated iirc | 07:32 |
| Timvde | himesama: which is why I'm still waiting on how the delta situation evolves | 07:34 |
| Timvde | But if I am all people around me are protected (last I heard, the vaccines protect very well against severe disease), anyone who wishes to get the vaccine has been able to (we're now at 12-17 year in my country), so I'll probably wait for them to get vaccinated too) and hospitals are doing well, there's really no need for me to not see my friends and family | 07:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: Barbie debuts doll in likeness of British Covid-19 vaccine developer → https://is.gd/uX92Mr | 07:37 |
| Timvde | I'll definitely avoid mass events in the foreseeable future though, and as I said, I don't mind masking up, there is a balance to be struck, and I think it's slowly moving in the other direction | 07:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Texas, United States: +21026 cases (now 3.2 million), +66 deaths (now 53395) since a day ago — Georgia, United States: +9174 cases (now 1.2 million), +25 deaths (now 21723) since a day ago — Washington, United States: +5476 cases (now 481357), +9 deaths (now 6136) since a day ago [... want %more?] | 07:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Japan’s Covid-19 infections have entered ‘new phase,’ says health minister → https://is.gd/aoXOGT | 07:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Thailand: +20200 cases (now 672385), +94 deaths (now 5409) since 20 hours ago | 08:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: ENT issues in Covid-19: Here’s how to deal with them → https://is.gd/v9dxut | 08:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | August 04, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/aXFPD7 | 09:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Macau: +4 cases (now 63) since 9 days ago | 09:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Australia’s Brisbane warned of prolonged Covid-19 lockdown as cases rise → https://is.gd/S6foMz | 09:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen, COVID-19 vaccine (Ad26.COV2-S [recombinant]), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 11/03/2021, Revision: 6, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/leysw6 | 09:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China shuts down transport routes as it battles worst Covid outbreak in months | China → https://is.gd/4txoAh | 10:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kerala, India: +23676 cases (now 3.4 million), +148 deaths (now 17103) since 23 hours ago — Lithuania: +535 cases (now 284191), +2 deaths (now 4422) since a day ago | 10:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Man in his 20s becomes one of Australia's youngest COVID-19 deaths → https://is.gd/9wUHRj | 10:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Japan: +13963 cases (now 956407), +9 deaths (now 15219) since 23 hours ago — Guinea: +196 cases (now 26188), +2 deaths (now 235) since 22 hours ago | 11:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from WHO Euro: WHO recommends continuing breastfeeding during COVID-19 infection and after vaccination: Breastfeeding has many advantages for mother and child and does not need to be discontinued during COVID-19 infection nor following vaccination of the mother. The virus that causes COVID-19 has not been detected in breastmilk, according to a [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Gl4udG | 11:29 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Colloquio telefonico del Presidente Draghi con il Presidente della Repubblica tunisina ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/colloquio-telefonico-del-presidente-draghi-con-il-presidente-della-repubblica-tunisina ) | 11:30 | |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: Most symptomatic children recover within a week, study finds: Most children who test positive for covid-19 and experience symptoms recover within a week, although a small proportion are unwell for more than four weeks, a study has found.1The data, taken from... → https://is.gd/0s3GL0 | 11:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: NYC will require vaccination proof for indoor dining, gyms → https://is.gd/GvlUkW | 12:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Finland: +872 cases (now 109230) since 23 hours ago — Austria: +592 cases (now 660854), +2 deaths (now 10744) since a day ago — Guam: +30 cases (now 8623) since a day ago | 12:39 |
| Trippy72894 | LjL | 12:48 |
| Trippy72894 | hi this is the update on the single case that freaked out all of hainan china | 12:49 |
| Trippy72894 | https://www.tropicalhainan.com/update-on-hu-case-and-covid-19-testing-of-residents-across-haikou/ | 12:49 |
| Trippy72894 | it's a pretty good source, despite the odd looking site | 12:49 |
| Trippy72894 | she was on the mainland. the article didn't say that for some reason. that's where she got it | 12:52 |
| Trippy72894 | afk | 12:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American: Health: 'Breakthrough' Infections Do Not Mean COVID Vaccines Are Failing → https://is.gd/XYWL6n | 12:52 |
| joerg | https://i.imgur.com/88JCrCp.png R_t=1 in Germany | 12:57 |
| de-facto | Trippy72894, weird writing style, why dont they tell how many of their tests turned out ot be positive? they rather list how many samples they have taken and how many have been confirmed *negative*? why is that? | 13:00 |
| Trippy72894 | good question. i don't know | 13:01 |
| Trippy72894 | but we have an app here that says and no active cases | 13:01 |
| Trippy72894 | all turned out to be neg | 13:01 |
| de-facto | well thats good, but still the more important info would be how many were positive and where | 13:01 |
| Trippy72894 | as far as they report. they want to report if positive because then anyone in contact with them freaks out and makes a phone call | 13:01 |
| de-facto | over time etc | 13:01 |
| de-facto | well yeah as it should be, would help tracing | 13:02 |
| Trippy72894 | newspaper articles here dont help the public | 13:02 |
| Trippy72894 | apps do | 13:02 |
| Trippy72894 | we all know instantly if there are cases | 13:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from BioNTech: BioNTech Completes Acquisition of Kite’s Neoantigen TCR Cell Therapy R&D Platform and Manufacturing Facility in Gaithersburg, Maryland: MAINZ, Germany & Santa Monica, USA, August 4, 2021 – BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX, “BioNTech”) and Kite , a Gilead Company (Nasdaq: GILD, “Kite”) today announced the closing of the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/D8yLBn | 13:02 |
| Trippy72894 | the whole island is negative right now according to the app | 13:03 |
| de-facto | thats really good, to the apps also show where? | 13:03 |
| Trippy72894 | yes | 13:03 |
| Trippy72894 | as soon as they know | 13:03 |
| de-facto | up to a level where people could be identified? | 13:03 |
| Trippy72894 | it's a govt app | 13:03 |
| Trippy72894 | yes | 13:03 |
| Trippy72894 | they say who and where they were and list locations and evertying | 13:03 |
| de-facto | oh wow, so you could see Miss X in street Y is tested positive? | 13:04 |
| Trippy72894 | yes | 13:04 |
| Trippy72894 | because we need to know in case we know them and were with them | 13:04 |
| Trippy72894 | if i'm positive, please please publish my name | 13:04 |
| Trippy72894 | of couse | 13:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +19819 cases (now 1.2 million), +257 deaths (now 9855) since 23 hours ago | 13:04 |
| Trippy72894 | which is more important, my name public or informing people i was with | 13:04 |
| Trippy72894 | they say the street and compound but not actual door address | 13:05 |
| de-facto | thats a big difference, here the apps send out random BLE beacons, and other aps receive those, if someone tests positive they can upload a list of BLE beacons they sent during their infectious time and all other apps download those list and check if they have seen those beacons, thereby able to warn about close contact with someone infectious but without revealing identity, location or time | 13:05 |
| Trippy72894 | ble? | 13:06 |
| de-facto | Bluetoot Low Energy | 13:06 |
| de-facto | Bluetooth Low Energy | 13:06 |
| Trippy72894 | ah ok | 13:06 |
| Trippy72894 | that sounds pretty good | 13:06 |
| Trippy72894 | and where is this? | 13:07 |
| Trippy72894 | country? | 13:07 |
| de-facto | Germany and most of EU countries afaik | 13:07 |
| Trippy72894 | ah | 13:07 |
| Trippy72894 | does it work well? | 13:07 |
| de-facto | good question, idk to be honest, but it enables warning anonymous contacts, such as in public transport or such, which one would not be able to contact by other means | 13:08 |
| Trippy72894 | that sounds pretty good. | 13:08 |
| de-facto | there is also contact tracing by people, i guess China does reconstruct infection chains too? | 13:09 |
| Trippy72894 | yes indeed | 13:09 |
| de-facto | i think this is really important, because every case found by a test could be an indicator of a superspread cluster if infection chain is traced back into the past | 13:10 |
| Trippy72894 | that makes sense | 13:10 |
| de-facto | so not only forward tracing is important (warning possible contacts that a positive case could have infected), but also backwards tracing to find the source cluster | 13:11 |
| Trippy72894 | when they find a positive case here they really dig into where they were | 13:11 |
| de-facto | thats very good | 13:11 |
| Trippy72894 | of course | 13:11 |
| Trippy72894 | china got lots of practice during SARS | 13:11 |
| Trippy72894 | ok off to bed! | 13:12 |
| Trippy72894 | stay safe | 13:12 |
| Trippy72894 | :) | 13:12 |
| Trippy72894 | afk | 13:12 |
| de-facto | have a good rest | 13:14 |
| de-facto | joerg, hmm sounds too good to be true, i would suspect a "tail effect" and the real reproduction be more like R~1.1 or such? | 13:15 |
| de-facto | but reproduction definitely in on decline in Germany too, mid of July it was like R~1.30 then end of July R~1.15 so about dR/dt ~ -0.01/1d | 13:17 |
| de-facto | btw i wish they would show timelines/graphs in the app, and not just latest values | 13:19 |
| de-facto | btw we stayed whole last year 2020 August at R~1.1-1.15 in Germany | 13:24 |
| de-facto | then at begin of September there was a small plateau with R~1 then went back to R~1.1-1.15 and then went up to R~1.3 in October | 13:25 |
| de-facto | combination of all kinds of effects, not only variants but also seasonality and holiday ends etc, so maybe there are some annual similarities, but also a lot of differences (variants, vaccinations etc) | 13:26 |
| de-facto | hmm would be interesting to match school holidays with federal states reproduction number | 13:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Israel: +3274 cases (now 884933), +2 deaths (now 6497) since 22 hours ago — Romania: +271 cases (now 1.1 million), +1 deaths (now 34298) since a day ago | 13:42 |
| joerg | de-facto: quite possible, though the trend is steady | 14:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iran: +39357 cases (now 4.0 million), +409 deaths (now 92194) since a day ago — Nepal: +2975 cases (now 705072), +35 deaths (now 9957) since 22 hours ago | 14:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Neurological Manifestations of COVID: The more we study COVID, the more apparent it is that neurological symptoms are common and can be long lasting. The post first appeared on Science-Based Medicine . → https://is.gd/EW6ODp | 14:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: News and press releases: ECDC and EMA update on COVID-19, , 04/08/2021: Full vaccination is key to protecting against serious COVID-19, including disease caused by the Delta variantWith the increasing circulation of the Delta... → https://is.gd/8NIOyW | 14:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +2334 cases (now 3.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 15:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Novavax: (news): Novavax and European Commission Finalize Advance Purchase Agreement for up to 200 million doses of COVID-19 Vaccine → https://is.gd/dAeNkN | 15:19 |
| genera | ui | 15:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Pharmalittle: FDA aims to fully approve Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine by Labor Day; SoftBank grabs $5 billion stake in Roche → https://is.gd/T1YSPP | 15:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +1033 cases (now 721776) since a day ago | 15:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Clinical trials: Commission approves Novavax coronavirus vaccine deal — finally → https://is.gd/XhIlPD | 15:52 |
| specing | so the new tally will be 3+1 USA vaccines, 1 UK vaccine, 0 EU vaccines, 0 other vaccines | 15:54 |
| specing | one would imagine a 500 million people trade bloc could come up with and produce our own vaccines | 15:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Serbia: +487 cases (now 723518), +2 deaths (now 7129) since 23 hours ago | 16:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China orders mass testing in Wuhan as COVID outbreak spreads → https://is.gd/HQpOFc | 16:23 |
| rpifan | so we are getting novavax | 16:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kenya: +1694 cases (now 206691), +30 deaths (now 4025) since 20 hours ago — Bangladesh: +13817 cases (now 1.3 million), +241 deaths (now 21638) since a day ago | 16:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Fashion: Met Gala makes vaccination proof, masks compulsory for attendees → https://is.gd/jBHaSw | 16:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Health: WHO calls for a temporary moratorium on administering booster shots of Covid-19 vaccines → https://is.gd/mDbADL | 16:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Microvascular Injury and Distal Thrombosis in SARS-COV-2 → https://is.gd/7QqIuc | 17:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Low-field Magnetic Resonance Imaging of Pediatric COVID-19 → https://is.gd/zDhR6q | 17:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kosovo: +221 cases (now 108844) since a day ago — Switzerland: +2 deaths (now 10908) since 2 hours ago | 17:38 |
| LjL | "The vaccine uses a different technology than the mRNA and viral vector vaccines currently in use. It's the same technology behind Sanofi's vaccine — which the EU is slated to buy up to 300 million doses' worth — but that shot was delayed at the end of 2020." ← Sanofi was protein? | 17:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Phase II Clinical Trial of Recombinant SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Vaccine (CHO Cell) → https://is.gd/wsY8HU | 17:47 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +25909 cases (now 6.0 million) since 15 hours ago | 18:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American: Governor Makes Personal Plea to Reluctant Arkansans to Get Vaccinated: Arkansas’s governor Asa Hutchinson talks to the media after a town hall at Arkansas State University—Mountain Home to promote COVID vaccination as case counts in the state rose last month. → https://is.gd/VUTurd | 18:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Morocco: +10603 cases (now 653286), +66 deaths (now 10015) since a day ago — North Macedonia: +164 cases (now 156707), +3 deaths (now 5497) since a day ago | 18:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: WHO calls for ‘moratorium’ on Covid-19 boosters until at least Sept-end to address vaccination disparity → https://is.gd/xKpMwW | 18:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +6590 cases (now 4.4 million), +21 deaths (now 128136) since a day ago — Canada: +12 deaths (now 26617) since 19 hours ago | 19:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: Monoclonal Antibody Receives Expanded Authorized Usage From FDA: With the FDA nod, Regeneron’s monoclonal antibody Regen-Cov (casirivimab and imdevimab) is authorized for the use of the therapy for post-exposure prophylaxis in certain people exposed to SARS-CoV-2 or who are at high risk of exposure to an infected individual. → https://is.gd/AiE47g | 19:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from ScienceMag: [Research Articles] Perturbed BMP signaling and denervation promote muscle wasting in cancer cachexia: Most patients with advanced solid cancers exhibit features of cachexia, a debilitating syndrome characterized by progressive loss of skeletal muscle mass and strength. Because the underlying mechanisms of this multifactorial [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/mE8BdV | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Albania: +99 cases (now 133310) since a day ago | 20:07 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/english-study-finds-50-60-reduced-risk-covid-double-vaccinated-2021-08-03/ | 20:29 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.reuters.com: English study finds 50-60% reduced risk of COVID for double-vaccinated | Reuters | 20:29 |
| nixonix | whats the share of az, pfizer, moderna in uk? | 20:30 |
| LjL | nixonix, that study is "including those who are asymptomatic" so 50-60% is not directly comparable to the efficacy figures from the trials | 20:31 |
| nixonix | i know | 20:31 |
| nixonix | its about infections, not symptomatic | 20:31 |
| LjL | "Focusing on those who had COVID-19 symptoms, effectiveness rose to around 59%, according to the study" | 20:31 |
| LjL | not much different... | 20:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Azerbaijan: +996 cases (now 346878), +5 deaths (now 5039) since a day ago — Spain: +14380 cases (now 4.5 million), +48 deaths (now 81821) since a day ago | 20:32 |
| LjL | nixonix, about the share i don't know, except that i'm pretty sure Moderna is very low | 20:32 |
| nixonix | it was supposed to be around 90% for symptoms with mrna, and maybe 80% for infections. indian variant and recent vaccination, roughly. sure those are not all very recent, which is prob the main reson for poor results | 20:32 |
| nixonix | and az | 20:32 |
| LjL | my impression is maybe a little more AZ but a lot of Pfizer too | 20:32 |
| nixonix | but long intervals in uk | 20:33 |
| LjL | meh i don't think it's 90% or 80% with Delta :( | 20:33 |
| nixonix | which means 2nd doses are more recent than in israel (who also vaccinated faster), and possibly more lasting effect in uk due to interval | 20:33 |
| nixonix | it was supposed to be! | 20:33 |
| nixonix | does jnj suck hard for indian variant? i noticed some very low number, ill try to find the tweet... | 20:35 |
| nixonix | was in this table https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1422960935212179457 | 20:36 |
| nixonix | in case you wonder like i did: "Provincetown /ˈprɒvɪnsˌtaʊn/ is a New England town located at the extreme tip of Cape Cod in Barnstable County, Massachusetts | 20:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Will the Delta Variant Peak and Then Burn Out?: Some experts are heartened by the recent decrease in COVID-19 cases in the U.K. and India, both hard-hit with the Delta variant. COVID-19 cases in India peaked at more than 400,000 a day in May; by Aug. 2, that had dropped to about 30,500 daily. → https://is.gd/26DNmH | 20:37 |
| nixonix | so when they say cape cod, barnstable or provincetown study, they all mean the same | 20:37 |
| nixonix | btw react study was based on very small number of cases | 20:38 |
| nixonix | check the other tables in that twitter thread too | 20:38 |
| nixonix | theres another table on ct values a bit lower | 20:40 |
| nixonix | this one https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1422974969865138179 | 20:41 |
| indoanon[m] | well | 20:42 |
| indoanon[m] | It seems phase 3 figures doesn't account variants | 20:44 |
| nixonix | not sure where that table is taken from. it wasnt in this pdf https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/handle/10044/1/90800 | 20:44 |
| nixonix | you mean those in the last fall? they were higher than 90% for mrna, something like 95-96% pfizer and moderna, werent they | 20:45 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/MarcelaSaebL/status/1421513291113762816 | 20:46 |
| nixonix | ^ 94 and 95.1 | 20:47 |
| indoanon[m] | Yeah, nixonix. It's a huge gap... | 20:52 |
| nixonix | not so much for severe, tho. unless old or immunodeficient, and several months since the 2nd dose | 20:53 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Convocazione del Consiglio dei Ministri n. 32 ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/convocazione-del-consiglio-dei-ministri-n-32/17584 ) | 20:55 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Consiglio dei Ministri n. 32 ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/consiglio-dei-ministri-n-32/17585 ) | 20:55 | |
| de-facto | what is the risk for a fully vaccinated 80-year-old? | 20:55 |
| de-facto | .ifr 80 | 20:56 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, for every 12 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 20:56 |
| * indoanon[m] uploaded an image: (391KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/LmunrHUDLdWavrXtQxAbQlVP/1627028370694.jpg > | 20:56 | |
| de-facto | that was before Delta, before vaccinations | 20:56 |
| * indoanon[m] uploaded an image: (21KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/HnkmdibJZUcNsROWPOPKYgUP/1625639672272.png > | 20:57 | |
| * indoanon[m] uploaded an image: (61KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/EjXCpDVQczXAqAIjWAjbVYQs/1627079512691.png > | 20:57 | |
| nixonix | tegnell is a new man nowdays, wants to continue restrictions, unlike finnish officials. use translator exp ljl som är bättre i svenska än jag https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Qxn508/tegnell-kan-inte-lova-restriktionsfri-julafton | 20:58 |
| nixonix | finnish vaccine chief (if theres one, but shes been like the vaccine boss in media) today in media, the final decision on vacc of 12-15 yo will be made in september. a few hours later finnish pm: finland will begin to vacc 12-15 yo, and the deciscion will be made tomorrow | 21:04 |
| nixonix | well i dont care who will win their power struggle, just vaccinate the damn kids asap | 21:04 |
| nixonix | israel already starting with 5 yo (although studies arent published on them, i guess pfizer gave them positive safety data) | 21:05 |
| * specing read that as 'finnish vaccine thief' | 21:06 | |
| nixonix | looks like long covid is rarish on kids tho, so hopefully the damage they will find out years or decades later is too. but cant be sure | 21:08 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(21)00198-X/fulltext | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.thelancet.com: Illness duration and symptom profile in symptomatic UK school-aged children tested for SARS-CoV-2 - The Lancet Child & Adolescent Health | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ethiopia: +511 cases (now 281811), +8 deaths (now 4403) since 20 hours ago | 21:09 |
| IndoAnon | are you referring to this one, https://www.talouselama.fi/uutiset/te/442fa302-8015-4e6b-a372-5799888a63f7 | 21:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: COVID-19 Scan for Aug 04, 2021: Flu vaccine and COVID-19 COVID vaccines and arthritis → https://is.gd/bFQhnh | 21:20 |
| de-facto | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69-aH3s0vw&t=285s | 21:26 |
| de-facto | "Media briefing on COVID-19" | 21:26 |
| nixonix | confused, that vax "chief" said the "final decison" in september was about 3rd doses, not kids. but anyway, those "final decisions" arent and shouldt be final when new information comes... | 21:28 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-seals-deal-with-novavax-up-200-million-covid-19-vaccines-2021-08-04/ | 21:28 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.reuters.com: EU seals deal with Novavax for up to 200 million COVID-19 vaccines | Reuters | 21:28 |
| de-facto | "...Accordingly, WHO is calling for a moratorium on boosters until at least the end of September to enable at least 10% of the population of every country to be vaccinated." | 21:29 |
| de-facto | We are thinking about 3rd doses and there are countries with 1.5 doses per 100 people | 21:30 |
| LjL | nixonix, jag är inte god med svenska, du har lärt dig den i skolan (tror jag) och jag har lärt mig den från låter :P | 21:32 |
| LjL | so sweden was all freeeeeee but now they're going to be more restricted than we promise to be | 21:32 |
| LjL | "Vi kommer behöva fortsätta leva med det här viruset ett bra tag framåt, säger han." :( i kind of know this but every time an "export" actually says it, my heart breaks a little | 21:32 |
| LjL | nixonix, de-facto: either of you... or both... were talking about this strange thing where antibodies kept being "refined" in germinal centers after 1st Pfizer, but for some reason it stopped after 2nd. i saw the discussion but do you have the study that says that? | 21:34 |
| nixonix | their owid stringency index has been higher than in finland the whole time, excluding the first few weeks 2020. it was a myth that swedes did nothing. they just were bad in their actions | 21:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Eswatini: +1068 cases (now 28535), +5 deaths (now 818) since a day ago — France: +27850 cases (now 6.2 million) since 22 hours ago | 21:34 |
| LjL | <nixonix> so when they say cape cod, barnstable or provincetown study, they all mean the same ← lol i got hella confused too | 21:34 |
| nixonix | and too slow. so were we 2020, but we were lucky there was less rona here at the time to begin with | 21:34 |
| LjL | <de-facto> .ifr 80 ← should we change the formula of that? make it variant-specific maybe? | 21:35 |
| de-facto | well do we have data for that? | 21:35 |
| nixonix | we only did bar restrictions (closed for 7 weeks i think, the only time we really closed the bars in the whole country) around april 6th or so | 21:35 |
| LjL | de-facto, i don't know! i think i made that command by basically copypasting a formula you gave me :P | 21:35 |
| de-facto | yes and with the doi for that statement by a meta study, so that was a well supported equation, but now with the variants its quite different | 21:36 |
| de-facto | and with vaccines even more so | 21:37 |
| de-facto | WHO "Its no understatement to say that the course of the pandemic depends on the leadership of the G20" | 21:40 |
| nixonix | our current restrictions are, on high prevalence areas bars must close 1 am. and im not sure, but i think you cant run very large inside events on those areas with full capacity currently (they can have outdoor festivals, and there are lot of those) | 21:41 |
| LjL | de-facto, fair enough, it was just an idea | 21:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Ardern’s popularity stumbles on New Zealand’s slow road to vaccination → https://is.gd/dy1AlR | 21:41 |
| nixonix | im not sure if theres anything else. no wonder cases go up... | 21:41 |
| LjL | de-facto, what does the G20 have to do with anything? | 21:41 |
| nixonix | im pretty sure our hc officials and politicians think its dying. the virus | 21:42 |
| LjL | does the WHO think that only big agencies that hardly do anything concrete (like themselves) matter | 21:42 |
| dTal | oh yeah the 1PM rule! we had that in the UK I think. Inexplicable | 21:42 |
| dTal | *1AM | 21:42 |
| de-facto | LjL, they control the vaccine supply | 21:42 |
| nixonix | compare australia (yeah different vacc coverage, and kinda winter too, while warmer than our summer) | 21:42 |
| nixonix | ljl have you heard more about that hypothesis on repeated mrna doses increasing adverse effects? | 21:45 |
| nixonix | i think it might do that to some persons, while maybe not for most. id like to hear some immunologist's opinion | 21:47 |
| nixonix | now when they started the 3rd doses for old and immunocompromised, those wont show how it goes, since their reaction to vaccine should be diminished anyway | 21:48 |
| TurboTech | Ladies and Gents, good day to you all | 21:50 |
| TurboTech | Oh my gosh my arm hurts. | 21:50 |
| TurboTech | LOL | 21:50 |
| TurboTech | Hit the x by accident. How is everyone today? | 21:54 |
| de-facto | quite well, how are you feeling? | 21:55 |
| LjL | nixonix, no, i haven't, but it really was no more than a hypothesis and *maybe* some animal studies. anyway we should know soon since third doses are expected... | 21:56 |
| LjL | ah, you covered that | 21:56 |
| LjL | by the way, can you confirm that in germany it'll be immunocompromised *and old* (some age)? here they announced they will only do it for immunocompromised for now | 21:57 |
| de-facto | actually i dont know | 21:57 |
| nixonix | me neither | 21:57 |
| TurboTech | I am beat. My arm hurts from my shot. LOL | 21:58 |
| nixonix | sweden starting 3rd doses in september | 21:58 |
| TurboTech | https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/ATVBAHA.121.316210 | 21:59 |
| TurboTech | Regarding Children developing MIS-C | 21:59 |
| nixonix | sorry, in sweden the news didnt say september, but in the fall at the earliest. and others possibly next year | 22:00 |
| de-facto | TurboTech, which one did you get? | 22:01 |
| nixonix | another article claimed quoting reuters, 3rd doses in germany for immunocompromised and "pensioners" | 22:01 |
| TurboTech | Moderna | 22:01 |
| LjL | i wonder if EU finally striking a deal with Novavax means they have firmly figured out where it will be produced, that enough doses can be produced (Novavax is small), and that there is no risk of the US blocking exports | 22:01 |
| TurboTech | they also had Johnson and Johnson and I was like Hell no. | 22:01 |
| de-facto | nice i also got Moderna, i think its more or less the same as BioNTech | 22:02 |
| LjL | It's funny that Johnson *and* Johnson is the only vaccine with... ONE dose | 22:02 |
| de-facto | ...wait for it :P | 22:02 |
| LjL | well, for now / initially / by design / whatever! | 22:03 |
| LjL | maybe it will eventually be Johnson & Johnson & Johnson & Johnson... | 22:03 |
| nixonix | they should do a booster with another vector | 22:03 |
| Juerd | Here we just call it Janssen :) | 22:03 |
| de-facto | LjL, actually i think it was developed by Janssen :) | 22:03 |
| LjL | Janssen is owned by J&J | 22:04 |
| de-facto | yeah | 22:04 |
| de-facto | TurboTech, first or second dose? | 22:05 |
| nixonix | fix that problem with az, then join that with jnj. two different vectors for different doses. updated for this variant too | 22:05 |
| TurboTech | First dose | 22:05 |
| TurboTech | Also taking 20 mg of melatonin 2x a day | 22:06 |
| nixonix | id have gone staight for 2nd dose, its more efficient | 22:06 |
| nixonix | +r | 22:06 |
| de-facto | TurboTech, for me 1st began to hurt 3h after injection and did so for 3 days | 22:07 |
| TurboTech | Mine started hurting about 8 hours after. | 22:07 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/expect/after.html <-- CDC recommends to cool and move the arm (i guess without heavy load) | 22:08 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.cdc.gov: Possible Side Effects After Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine | CDC | 22:08 |
| de-facto | i did that and also did drink a lot of water, just to be sure | 22:08 |
| de-facto | TurboTech, out of curiosity, how come 1st dose so late? Isnt Moderna even in Tx there? | 22:09 |
| TurboTech | I was waiting for more data. | 22:10 |
| TurboTech | the benefit 5 months out clearly outweighs the risk. | 22:10 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.454085v1 | 22:10 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.biorxiv.org: SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance | bioRxiv | 22:10 |
| TurboTech | Risk is low | 22:10 |
| TurboTech | Nix, I read that last night. | 22:11 |
| de-facto | yeah benefit does outweight the risk, maybe you even got better protection in winter now | 22:11 |
| de-facto | at what delay you plan to get booster? | 22:12 |
| TurboTech | Yes, for now. | 22:12 |
| TurboTech | Not sure. | 22:12 |
| TurboTech | .title https://dash.harvard.edu/handle/1/37368635 | 22:13 |
| de-facto | here they do it at 6 weeks | 22:13 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: From dash.harvard.edu: SARS-CoV-2 infects blood monocytes to activate NLRP3 and AIM2 inflammasomes, pyroptosis and cytokine release | 22:13 |
| TurboTech | Oh, are you asking me when my second shot is or if I will get a booster after my two doses are in. | 22:14 |
| TurboTech | My second dose is august 31st | 22:14 |
| de-facto | second shot | 22:14 |
| de-facto | ah ok so like 4 weeks | 22:14 |
| de-facto | exactly as in the approval trials | 22:14 |
| de-facto | booster 4 weeks after primer and endpoint 2 weeks after booster | 22:15 |
| TurboTech | Ye | 22:16 |
| TurboTech | yes | 22:16 |
| nixonix | with quick look, it looks like despite that long deletion on immunogenic supersite, its not that immunoevasive (1.5x more than older 614G) | 22:16 |
| de-facto | WHO said its outcompeted by Gamma, even in Peru | 22:17 |
| nixonix | what was the one with 501Y and 484K? | 22:17 |
| nixonix | it might be highly transmissive, but maybe not that evasive | 22:17 |
| de-facto | ACE2 binding (kent) and immune evasion (beta) | 22:17 |
| nixonix | that lambda, i mean | 22:17 |
| de-facto | you asked 501Y and 484k | 22:18 |
| nixonix | yeah, another... ah, you answered to that, the one with those beat gamma in peru? | 22:18 |
| de-facto | oh what variant had both of those? | 22:18 |
| nixonix | yeah | 22:18 |
| de-facto | i think there was a kent that got 484k in addition | 22:18 |
| nixonix | i think you mentioned it here yesterday, some variatn that had those both. so not some major variant? | 22:19 |
| nixonix | that has spread a lot | 22:19 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/variants-concern | 22:19 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ecdc.europa.eu: SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern as of 29 July 2021 | 22:19 |
| nixonix | i know there have beeen a few cases in uk having those both, but not spread much | 22:19 |
| nixonix | ah, i confused.. SA variant had both | 22:20 |
| nixonix | P.1 too | 22:20 |
| nixonix | so it looks like theres no worse thand 617.2 around currently, that has spread a lot | 22:21 |
| de-facto | B.1.1.7+E484K, B.1.351, P.1, P.3, B.1.621, B.1.351+P384L, B.1.351+E516Q, P.1+P681H, C.1.2 | 22:22 |
| nixonix | situation might change when 90%+ have been immunized. but i think not with the current variants, since the waning abs let current variants break through the vaccines | 22:23 |
| nixonix | are there latin american countries with high 617.2 share? | 22:24 |
| dTal | de-facto: bless you | 22:31 |
| de-facto | variants with E484K + N501Y | 22:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: WHO Calls for Pause on Booster Doses: High-income countries have given about 100 vaccine doses for every 100 people, while low-income countries have given just 1.5 doses for every 100 people. → https://is.gd/DpYFjX | 22:34 |
| de-facto | yeah from the WHO briefing video today that i linked above | 22:35 |
| de-facto | imho WHO is correct, we need to make sure every country gets access to vaccine doses | 22:35 |
| de-facto | and that the supply is satisfied evenly, even if that means less doses for rich countries | 22:36 |
| de-facto | at least then there is motivation to let say "encourage" the manufacturers to increase production rates | 22:36 |
| de-facto | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69-aH3s0vw | 22:41 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/covid-vaccine-doses-covax-b1896738.html | 22:59 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.independent.co.uk: Millions of doses at risk of being discarded in poorer countries due to rollout challenges, study warns | The Independent | 22:59 |
| nixonix | maybe send more to south america, theres way more virus and willingness for jabs | 22:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Aruba: +123 cases (now 12000) since a day ago | 23:01 |
| nixonix | chile and uruguay has high vaccine coverage. but not in the other highest in medicine ranked latin american countries, mexico and argentina. and not in brazil | 23:02 |
| nixonix | pizer was planning to start vaccine manufacturing in some african country. not sure when | 23:04 |
| nixonix | if it was pfizer.. | 23:04 |
| nixonix | yeah, in SA | 23:06 |
| nixonix | but excluding SA those type of vaccines arent suitable in africa due to cold chain requirements | 23:07 |
| nixonix | maybe for some bigger cities | 23:07 |
| nixonix | yuri thought last summer it might take 10 years for africa to get vaccinated | 23:08 |
| nixonix | lets see how long the protection for severe symptoms last, with these s only vaccines | 23:09 |
| de-facto | huh they could put the vials in isolating boxes with dry ice and transport them like that | 23:10 |
| de-facto | everything should be possible | 23:10 |
| nixonix | looks like pfizer uses vaisala's shipping containers. they look the same | 23:18 |
| nixonix | oh yeah, they mention pfizer there https://www.vaisala.com/en/blog/2021-06/how-qualify-vaccine-thermal-shipping-container | 23:20 |
| de-facto | nice yeah exactly those | 23:22 |
| nixonix | moderna has flatter models | 23:22 |
| nixonix | then there are those plastic cylinders | 23:22 |
| nixonix | like here for ebola vacc. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/temperature-concerns-could-slow-rollout-new-coronavirus-vaccines | 23:23 |
| nixonix | i think pfizer lifted the required temps recently, from -80 to -40 something was it | 23:24 |
| de-facto | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccination-doses-per-capita?tab=table&time=latest | 23:26 |
| de-facto | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccination-doses-per-capita?tab=map | 23:27 |
| de-facto | https://www.unicef.org/supply/covid-19-vaccine-market-dashboard | 23:28 |
| nixonix | australia wanted to manufacture their own vaccines, but there was problems. one was that molecular clamp vacc that showed false positives in hiv tests. then i think they were supposed to manufacture az or something | 23:31 |
| de-facto | weird did UK order 500k COVAX doses? i dont get it, dont they produce themselves? | 23:32 |
| nixonix | taiwan had similar plans, and also south korea. maybe thats why they dont have much vaccine coverage yet (also pfizer refusing to supply taiwan). not sure why nz | 23:32 |
| nixonix | maybe for their ex colonies | 23:32 |
| specing | south korea is now producing sputnik, I believe | 23:32 |
| nixonix | some european countries like france have sent their ex colonies | 23:33 |
| nixonix | south korea have other deals too, but they have taken time | 23:33 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/exclusive-skorea-talks-with-mrna-vaccine-makers-make-up-1-bln-doses-govt-2021-07-05/ | 23:34 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.reuters.com: EXCLUSIVE S.Korea in talks with mRNA vaccine makers to make up to 1 bln doses -govt official | Reuters | 23:34 |
| de-facto | Africa does not have enough doses by a long shot, and afaik Delta wave arriving in many places | 23:34 |
| specing | my country donated 400k doses of AZ till now | 23:36 |
| specing | nobody wants to take that shot lol | 23:36 |
| nixonix | thai mrna vaccine, co-operating with weissmann | 23:36 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.chula.ac.th/en/clipping/47302/ | 23:36 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.chula.ac.th: The COVID vaccine pioneer behind southeast Asia’s first mRNA shot – Chulalongkorn University | 23:36 |
| nixonix | ub-612 is taiwanese. interesting projects in asia | 23:36 |
| nixonix | .title https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/north-korea-rejected-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-over-side-effects-report/articleshow/84263403.cms | 23:38 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From timesofindia.indiatimes.com: North Korea rejected AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine over side effects: Report - Times of India | 23:38 |
| nixonix | they started human tests on their own vaccine in january already. not sure how its progressed | 23:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Turkey: +26822 cases (now 5.8 million), +122 deaths (now 51767) since 20 hours ago | 23:40 |
| nixonix | how they going to do efficacy tests when theres no sars2 in nk? | 23:40 |
| himesama | aren't az's side effects really rare? | 23:41 |
| nixonix | yeah, but so is the risk for sars2 in nk, making even rare side effects bad deal | 23:43 |
| LjL | my mom has had 3-5 days of scary vertigo, both times one week after AZ dose, and although i said this before, i can say now that the second episode also resolved within 5 days. correlation seems strong on this one to me | 23:43 |
| nixonix | when she was tired in the evening, or earlier too? | 23:43 |
| LjL | all day | 23:44 |
| LjL | she went to doctors, she was scared | 23:44 |
| LjL | almost couldn't walk | 23:44 |
| himesama | i get confused among vertigo, dizziness, and similar terms | 23:44 |
| himesama | sounds bad though | 23:44 |
| LjL | i get a bit confused too, but i have "dizziness" that i've complained about for like four years, since i also got tinnitus... but it feels like "being on a boat", slightly moving | 23:45 |
| LjL | my mom felt like spinning and being unable to stay upright and feeling like she was falling | 23:45 |
| nixonix | hmm, i just got week after 2nd pfizer dose some tiredness in the evening with a bit vertigo feeling. happens sometimes when im very tired. maybe ab reaction because its the peak time for them | 23:45 |
| TurboTech | I have had vertigo for 6 years. | 23:45 |
| TurboTech | It sucks, but I figured out how to deal with it. | 23:45 |
| LjL | how do you deal with it? | 23:46 |
| nixonix | also another headache, week after the 2nd. got the 1st the next day | 23:46 |
| TurboTech | It is positional. | 23:46 |
| LjL | ah | 23:46 |
| TurboTech | When I lay down and turn my head a certain way it goes off. | 23:46 |
| LjL | my mom's was sort of positional, i think it said "positional+central" on one doctor's report, but she basically couldn't move her head even a tiny bit without triggering it | 23:46 |
| LjL | TurboTech, that sounds like otolith problem | 23:46 |
| TurboTech | Well it is all related to crystals in the ear. | 23:47 |
| nixonix | so my guess would be, its antibodies affecting to some mimicing receptors possibly. but it went away, maybe a bit more tired couple more days, but cant be sure | 23:47 |
| TurboTech | So they say. | 23:47 |
| LjL | TurboTech, yes, those. i suppose they've mentioned the Epley maneuver to you | 23:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Boston mayor declares no vaccine passports in Boston. Compares it to slavery → https://is.gd/RofksR | 23:48 |
| Bridgestorm | ❗ 地震预警 / EARTHQUAKE WARNING for Taiwan (just felt near Zhubei?) — Follow for updates (www.kmoni.bosai.go.jp) | 23:51 |
| -Bridgestorm- 🏠 地震! Earthquake! 6.0 M tremor, registered by yurekuru, occurred 1 minute ago (21:50:28 UTC), during twilight, Zhubei, Taiwan (24.7, 121.1), ↓10 km likely felt 270 km away (in 桃園市, 新北市, 新竹市, 臺北市, 東區…) by 16.2 million people → https://twitter.com/yurekuru/status/1423038804143738881 — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1622783202 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1601022329 | 23:52 | |
| -Bridgestorm- https://www.windy.com/webcams/1601022965 (Twitter) | 23:52 | |
| de-facto | .title https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-10-neuropilin-sars-cov-infectivity-breakthrough.html | 23:52 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From medicalxpress.com: Neuropilin-1 drives SARS-CoV-2 infectivity, finds breakthrough study | 23:52 |
| de-facto | .title https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6518/861 | 23:52 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From science.sciencemag.org: Neuropilin-1 is a host factor for SARS-CoV-2 infection | Science | 23:52 |
| de-facto | .title https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6518/856 | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From science.sciencemag.org: Neuropilin-1 facilitates SARS-CoV-2 cell entry and infectivity | Science | 23:53 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-020-00460-9 | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nature.com: Not only ACE2—the quest for additional host cell mediators of SARS-CoV-2 infection: Neuropilin-1 (NRP1) as a novel SARS-CoV-2 host cell entry mediator implicated in COVID-19 | Signal Transduction and [...] | 23:53 |
| nixonix | Daly et al. found that the furin-cleaved S1 fragment of the spike protein binds directly to cell surface NRP1 | 23:58 |
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