libera/##covid-19/ Thursday, 2021-08-12

nixonixfoxp4 is under special interest (lungs)00:00
dTalthis is so infuriating https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2813986600:12
dTalsomebody literally claiming that all covid-19 deaths are actually boomers dying of old age, and also claiming they aren't claiming that00:12
LjLdTal, nice to know that hackernews is about as litigious as reddit, that way when reddit enforces their crappy new interface on me i can use hackernews instead...00:14
dTalam I being trolled? I don't understand that conversation00:14
dTalLjL: there's a lot of new users lately00:15
dTalnotice all the green usernames00:15
dTalwell, throwaway users00:15
LjLmaybe they're refugees from reddit00:16
LjLi don't see anything green in that convo though00:16
pwr22That hnews thread00:18
pwr22Lol00:18
pwr22All I got to say00:18
nixonixi have and old reddit addon (not that id read reddit much, but sometimes its handy to google for something)00:19
nixonixan old...00:19
nixonixbtw healthdata/IHME sucks with their european estimates, its really way off. usa is prob more accurate, hopefully00:21
pwr22My work has changed our policies and now is going to require proving full vaccination before people are allowed to return to the office00:22
LjLi remember there was criticism of their model in the USA too00:23
pwr22A good thing imo00:23
nixonixtheir early model they used in the spring 2020 was criticized, and they used different methods than most models. later they change it to more similar than others - thats what i read somewhere anyway00:24
whytek%help00:33
Brainstormwhytek: Hi, I am LjL's bot! Say %modules or %commands to me in private to see my features.00:33
BrainstormNew from The Lancet (Online): [Correspondence] Pharmaceutical companies should pay for raiding nature's medicine cabinet: In 2019, the pharmaceutical industry profited from US$1·2 trillion of global spending on medicines.1 Most of this is simply a cut of the $125 trillion worth of services provided by nature every year.2 Almost two-thirds of all small [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bvRFSC00:34
whytekHmm. I don't seem to be able to talk to BrainStorm in private.00:34
whytek%links piers robinson00:35
Brainstormwhytek, Sorry, nothing found. Try with broader keywords00:35
nixonix"Almost two-thirds of all small molecules approved by the US Food and Drug Administration between 1981 and 2014 were either inspired by, derived from, or mimicked natural resources or consisted of natural products00:37
nixonixmaybe bats own IP rights to s-protein. or maybe the bat woman and daszik, who knows. inspired from nature anyway00:42
nixonix.title https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9847489/YouTubers-dupe-anti-vaxxer-Piers-Corbyn-taking-bundle-cash-ignore-AZ-vaccine.html00:44
Brainstormnixonix: From www.dailymail.co.uk: YouTubers dupe anti-vaxxer Piers Corbyn into taking 'bundle of cash' to 'ignore' the AZ vaccine | Daily Mail Online00:44
LjL%papers waning00:55
BrainstormLjL, 10 results out of 149: Waning Antibody Responses in Asymptomatic and Symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infection by Pyoeng Gyun Choe et al, dated 2020-10-15 → https://www.doi.org/10.3201/eid2701.203515 [... want %more?]00:55
LjL%papers waning vaccination00:56
BrainstormKeyError: 'author' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 422, in preprints)00:56
LjLboo00:56
nixonix.title https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109522?query=featured_home00:56
Brainstormnixonix: From www.nejm.org: Evaluation of mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine in Adolescents | NEJM00:56
nixonixtheres some vietnamese paper on az apparently somewhere00:57
nixonixwith low ab and high viral load00:58
LjLgood or bad news?00:58
LjLnice :\00:58
nixonix.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.08.21260162v1.full00:58
Brainstormnixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Immunogenicity of Oxford-AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine in Vietnamese healthcare workers | medRxiv00:58
LjLnixonix, it doesn't seem to talk about viral load01:00
LjLit doesn't seem to talk about people getting infected in general01:00
nixonixi just found it, gotta look see01:00
nixonixyeah it was prob topols interpretation from ab titers01:02
BrainstormUpdates for Vietnam: +8766 cases (now 236901), +342 deaths (now 4487) since 23 hours ago01:11
nixonixit seems something has changed recently in understanding of rna viruses. i find a few years old articles saying most rna viruses synthesize mrna in cytoplasm, but a more recent paper claims they proved influenza mrna synthesis happen in nucleus01:27
nixonixnot sure where it happens with sars2, but those against mrna vaccines will get mrna in their cells no matter what, from flu, from sars2, from rhino, from rsv etc01:29
nixonixand from sputnik01:29
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/ghffhhjjjfdd/status/142464456357512806901:31
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: The Owl (@ghffhhjjjfdd): "True Be careful with stats from Israel It can be very misleading In hospital’s they test only the unvaccinated And then you have hospitalization with positive test But not [...]01:31
nixonixlook at the efficacy section and figure 3 in that adolescent pfizer paper above01:37
LjL%papers aspirin01:40
BrainstormLjL, 10 results out of 154: THE NOVEL ASPIRIN AS BREAKTHROUGH DRUG FOR COVID-19: A NARRATIVE REVIEW by BAMIDELE ALEGBELEYE et al, dated 2020-06-24 → https://figshare.com/articles/preprint/THE_NOVEL_ASPIRIN_AS_BREAKTHROUGH_DRUG_FOR_COVID-19_A_NARRATIVE_REVIEW/12559004 [... want %more?]01:40
nixonixdidnt it have antiviral effects too, if i recall?01:47
nixonixbut oh yeah, moderna had 4 weeks interval. maybe its all about that, and we with long intervals will have awesome protection for years...01:48
nixonix.title https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html01:48
Brainstormnixonix: From www.axios.com: New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios01:48
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid 19: NZ resets approach with faster vaccine roll-out, border re-opening trial this year → https://is.gd/Yp6EOL01:48
nixonixaspirin has been confirmed to have antiviral effect on multiple levels. Moreover, one study has confirmed that aspirin can inhibit virus replication by inhibiting prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) in macrophages and upregulation of type I interferon production. Subsequently, pharmacological studies have found that aspirin as an anti-inflammatory and01:51
nixonixanalgesic drug by inhibiting cox-oxidase (COX)01:51
nixonixUnder certain conditions, the platelet is the main contributor of innate immune response, studies have found that in the lung injury model in dynamic neutrophil and platelet aggregation01:53
nixonixearly use of aspirin in covid-19 patients, which has the effects of inhibiting virus replication, anti-platelet aggregation, anti-inflammatory and anti-lung injury, is expected to reduce the incidence of severe and critical patients, shorten the length of hospital duration and reduce the incidence of cardiovascular complications01:53
nixonixthat was old chinese paper, but here more recent:01:55
nixonix.title https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210713/Could-aspirin-intake-reduce-mortality-risk-in-COVID-19-patients.aspx01:55
Brainstormnixonix: From www.news-medical.net: Could aspirin intake reduce mortality risk in COVID-19 patients?01:55
himesamaregarding axios article about pfizer less effective than moderna.  if it could come down to moderna having a higher dose, it would be interesting if also it were the case that a longer interval for moderna would be more useful and applicable to pfizer.01:55
himesamaalso, i have heard that pfizer has been more forthcoming about sharing data.  could we be seeing a war between competitors?01:55
himesamawill moderna be producing a delta variant also (pfizer said it would).01:55
himesamai have heard there is little difference in inactive ingredients between the two.  what is the difference?01:56
LjLnixonix, i don't know, i was telling someone in the other channel that some doctors in italy insist (on tv) that early aspirin or nimesulide treatment improves outcomes, and too often it's not done. i don't think i know this from actual reputable studies as opposed to just tv doctors saying it01:57
specinghimesama: I've read somewhere (wiki?) that the optimum interval for bnt is around 8 weeks01:57
LjLi've read that too, although it's always strange how whenever the UK changes their interval, some study backs it :P01:58
himesamawhereas it is usually at what interval?01:59
himesamaalso why is 42 percent effectiveness a wake up call?  isn't j and j around that effectiveness?  or am i mistaking endpoint measurements/01:59
LjLhimesama, i think from clinical trial protocols it was between 21 and 42 days (usually 21)01:59
LjLi've had mine about a month apart02:00
nixonixbritish hc officials said they think 8 weeks is the sweet spot considering ab production (didnt mention about maturing of b-cells tho) and chances to catch the virus before the 2nd dose02:00
LjLcertainly 8 weeks was initially frowned upon by Pfizer02:00
LjLJ&J was not so good from the beginning and is going to be nearly useless with Delta, i don't think we really need a wake-up call on it02:00
LjLbut if you want one, i do have one02:00
nixonixim not sure if they think 12 weeks would still be better than 8, if only ab quantities considered02:00
BrainstormUpdates for Reunion: +3590 cases (now 43835), +10 deaths (now 298) since 7 days ago — Brunei: +54 cases (now 494) since a day ago02:01
LjLhttps://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.19.452771v3  "The data underscore the importance of surveillance for breakthrough infections that result in severe COVID-19 and suggest the benefit of a second immunization following Ad26.COV2.S to increase protection against the variants."02:01
nixonixtheres also change in t-cells, with short interval its more killer t-cell skewed, and long interval more helper t-cells associated with ab production02:01
LjLhimesama, anyway 42% from Pfizer being markedly different from Moderna was kind of unexpected. i don't know if it's a "wakeup call" but i'm definitely not thrilled02:02
LjLpretty much everybody was assuming Pfizer would be *way* more efficacious than J&J. which it still is, anyway02:02
nixonixalso some information on az having stronger killer t-cell response than those mrna vaxes. i dont remember the paper though02:02
LjLhttps://www.zotero.org/groups/4391070/covid_links/tags/T-cells/library02:03
nixonixhow was az protection holding in uk, compared to pfizer, with time?02:03
himesamawhat about az?  is it about teh same as j and j?02:03
LjLprobably a fair bit better but it's hard to tell given there's so little overlap between usage of the two02:03
LjLUK studies are all AZ and Pfizer, while J&J is most used in the US where AZ isn't02:04
LjLi think there's one study, from memory, that concludes pretty much that 1 dose of AZ is equivalent to J&J02:04
LjLwhich surprises me... zero02:04
himesamazotero link not showing anything02:04
nixonixdidnt jnj get decent results vs SA variant, was it02:05
himesamaum, so you are saying az is usually 2 doses if it is better but one dose is equivalent?02:05
LjLno02:06
LjLi'm saying onne dose of AZ is about as good as one dose of J&J02:06
himesamai can't square that one is better while they are about as good02:07
LjLand i'd extrapolate from that that since one dose of AZ (or one dose of anything, really) is not very good at all against, Delta, then one dose of J&J is not very good at all against Delta02:07
LjLhimesama, i don't understand what you don't understand02:07
LjLAZ is a two dose vaccine02:07
LjLJ&J is a one dose vaccine02:07
LjLAZ with 2 doses is better than J&J02:07
LjLAZ with 1 dose is about the same as J&J02:08
himesamaok that was my guess02:08
nixonixkinetics of ab waning might be different, if you stop b-cell maturing early with 2nd dose. so that during the first few months az might be stronger, but then afterwards, maybe one shot jnj is more protective with its germinal center b-cell originating abs that have been maturing02:08
himesamawhy is jnj not doing double dose?02:08
himesamacould it be that the lambda variant will be the decider among vaccines with the mrna ones able to keep up but the vector ones not?  or is that not as much of an issue as delta?02:09
nixonixmaybe they noticed the difference to 1 shot wouldnt be that much, so they decided this is almost as good with 102:09
nixonixwhat was lambda again02:10
himesamaevades vaccines02:10
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Simplified table of the 5 reported studies for 2-dose mRNA vaccine effectiveness vs Delta infections. The Mayo & Qatar studies did not account for time from vaccination (Pfizer longer duration). Infection definitions vary.  UK data: 8-12 wks btwn doses, others 3 wks More to come → https://is.gd/L8KjGD02:12
himesamaandecdotally folk who have reacted to vaccines and other stuff (mostly ohter stuff) are taking and suggesting jnj as least risky, because fewer ingredients and only one dose.02:12
LjLhimesama, according to my logs, this is where i got the 1 AZ vs J&J from, but it isn't loading for me now: https://khub.net/web/phe-national/public-library/-/document_library/v2WsRK3ZlEig/view_file/479607329?_com_liferay_document_library_web_portlet_DLPortlet_INSTANCE_v2WsRK3ZlEig_redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fkhub.net%3A443%2Fweb%2Fphe-national%2Fpublic-library%2F-%2Fdocument_library%2Fv2WsRK3ZlEig%2Fview%2F47960726602:12
LjLit's definitely the most risky one for getting COVID though02:12
himesama7h ago topol implied mrna vaccines worse than that preprint said moderna was02:16
himesamaagainst delta02:16
nixonixnotice that provincetown part with jnj 16%02:17
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/142558339088813671002:17
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "More data summarized here, and more to come out soon The Mayo Clinic study of 42% Pfizer vaccine efffectiveness vs Delta infections noted" | nitter02:17
LjLhimesama, uhm there's nothing from him from 7h ago02:18
LjLnm i see it, reply to self02:19
nixonix.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.11.21261885v102:20
Brainstormnixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness against the Delta (B.1.617.2) variant in Qatar | medRxiv02:20
LjLhe doesn't single out Moderna though or does he?02:20
himesama" Eric Topol @EricTopol 8h There needs to be truth-telling about the reduced protection of mRNA vaccines vs symptomatic Delta infections.  It was 95% pre-Delta.  Many are claiming it's still ~80%.  It isn't.  50-60% is best estimate from all sources (not US, since we don't have the data)"02:23
himesamaso the qatar study not meaningful or perhaps meaningful buyt not relevant to other populations?02:23
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/BobWood12/status/142559505265552998802:24
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: BW-20 (@BobWood12): "This explains it. From the end of the report. This should be highlighted. "However, there has been less time for waning of vaccine immunity for mRNA-1273, as this vaccine was [...]02:24
nixonixhow was it in mayo then02:26
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against hospital admission with the Delta variant - Public library - PHE national - Knowledge Hub ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/VC5JJQKA )02:27
LjLhimesama, nixonix: actually i think the J&J being similar to AZ 1 dose came from here https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1423684812309626889 but i'm not sure if we *had* this study from South Africa02:28
LjLhimesama, according to his view it's meaningful for any population where pfizer has tended to be rolled out earlier than Moderna, which is probably a lot of populations02:31
LjLalso i note some wide CIs in that study (although it's not the only one)02:31
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness against the Delta (B.1.617.2) variant in Qatar ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/R56F3DZX )02:32
himesamai don't undersatnd the houston and provincetown numbers.  are those numbers efficacy against symptpomatic or asymptomati infection?  they don't seem to say.   or are they just the proportion of the popoulation vaccinated with the indicated vaccine?  (84+16=100)?02:35
BrainstormUpdates for Lebanon: +2591 cases (now 576550), +6 deaths (now 7958) since a day ago — Nigeria: +790 cases (now 179908), +1 deaths (now 2195) since 20 hours ago — France: +25379 cases (now 6.4 million), +62 deaths (now 112501) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +1987 cases (now 1.9 million), +8 deaths (now 18032) since 21 hours ago02:38
LjLhimesama, what the study actually says is "Vaccine products received by persons experiencing breakthrough infections were Pfizer-BioNTech (159; 46%), Moderna (131; 38%), and Janssen (56; 16%); among fully vaccinated persons in the Massachusetts general population, 56% had received Pfizer-BioNTech, 38% had received Moderna, and 7% had received Janssen vaccine products."02:39
LjLso that 16% figure seems misplaced. it means nothing without also having the distribution of vaccines received02:39
LjLanyhow, it doesn't mean J&J is only 16% effective02:39
himesamayea you need both sets of numbers02:40
nixonixah, i wondered that another day already, and mentioned here too02:41
nixonix.title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.08.443253v5.full02:41
Brainstormnixonix: From www.biorxiv.org: SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 Delta variant replication, sensitivity to neutralising antibodies and vaccine breakthrough | bioRxiv02:41
nixonixcouple of mAbs made useless vs 617.2, while a few others remained potent02:41
nixonixB.1.1.7 virus isolate was 2.3-fold less sensitive to the sera compared to the WT, and that B.1.617.2 was 5.7-fold less sensitive to the sera (Figure 1c). Importantly in the same assay, the B.1.351 Beta variant that emerged in South Africa demonstrated an 8.2-fold loss02:41
LjLi'm too stupid to do the maths to normalize those numbers, though ;(02:42
LjLi don't seem to get what i should be multiplying or dividing by what :P02:42
nixonixlots of information on mutations effect02:42
himesamabrain not following logic --- 17:31 <LjL> himesama, according to his view it's meaningful for any population where pfizer has tended to be rolled out earlier than Moderna, which is probably a lot of populations02:42
nixonixdid you buy that l-theanine? it helps02:42
nixonixif taken with caffeine...02:43
LjLnixonix, no, but also this is not about memory02:43
himesamahelps with what?02:43
nixonixyeah, i had the idea on memory improvement on the fly anyway..02:43
BrainstormNew from Ars Technica: Science: FDA expected to authorize 3rd COVID vaccine dose for immunocompromised → https://is.gd/9BT4Er02:43
nixonixseems to improve concentration, and makes you cold as ice in any situation. maybe02:43
LjLhimesama, the logic is that the efficacy of these vaccines probably wanes quite quickly after all (Israel is seeing that), so if people on average had Pfizer a longer time before Delta arose, than Moderna, then Pfizer is going to look artificially worse02:44
nixonix*cool. not sure if its that much difference for finns, tho, as we are pretty cool anyways02:44
LjLof course02:44
nixonixcalm might be better word02:44
himesamaso the qatar study might not be relevant to a pfizer vs. moderna decision02:45
himesamatheanine at recommneded doses years ago had such a mild effect that it was not worth it.  although i likely did not take it with caffeine or coffee or tea or theophylline.02:46
nixonixso was it the same with moderna, did they get more pfizer or moderna doses during early months?02:46
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: COVID-19 Vaccine Effectiveness and Safety | MMWR ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/G67VK2EH )02:47
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Novel Coronavirus Reports | MMWR ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/8S477GDA )02:47
nixonixthose capsules ive seen containing theanine and caffeine had ratio 2:1. but since im a coffee drinker who limits caffeine intake, i prefer just theanine powder (around 350mg once a day)02:47
nixonixin tea prob much less02:48
LjLhimesama, well if that one is not relevant then probably neither is the Mayo Clinic one, by the same logic, but... they matched cohorts, i don't think Mayo people are entirely dumb, so i dunno02:49
nixonixnot sure about chocolate, and if its theanine in it that gives the good mood or just the taste...02:49
nixonixbut they do what they do can with what they have. "The Mayo & Qatar studies did not account for time from vaccination (Pfizer longer duration)"02:51
LjLnixonix, i probably would not want to take something that contains a lot of caffeine aside from the coffee i drink02:52
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, Including COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections, Associated with Large Public Gatherings — Barnstable County, Massachusetts, July 2021 ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/UKURXNNM )02:52
nixonixyeah buy plain theanine. powder 100g €10-20, lasts for year or so. i bought 4 more a few months ago02:53
LjLnixonix, i'll see if the pharmacy here has it, but unlikely, otherwise i can get it from amazon but that'll have to wait until i'm back in milan02:54
LjLi'm not entirely comfortable with the fact this would be >10x of the doses found in drinking a lot of tea, and that experiments on safety were only done on animals :P02:55
nixonixhere i have it in the nearest large supermarket, the nearest pharma, the nearest supplement store (but i ordered from another pharma in post, they had 100g cans and in sale too)02:55
himesamai am also not comfotable about that02:56
nixonixand we are a small country in the end of the world. so its everywhere02:56
nixonixthose caffeine combos have 200mg theanine and 100mg caffeine. so a bit more prob doesnt harm you02:56
LjLnixonix, well the fact you have a "nearest supplement store" likely means it's a very different place from here :P02:57
LjLi'm in a small town in the Alps currently02:57
nixonixthose doses most amino acid users take are a lot more02:57
LjLhimesama, what is theophylline supposed to help with there?02:57
LjLwell i wouldn't want to be them02:57
himesamain english sometimes caffeine is used as a shorthand for caffeine, theophylline, or theobromine02:58
himesama"i don't want any caffeine so i won't drink tea"02:58
LjLhimesama, oh... so those are the caffeine-like substances in tea?02:58
himesamayes02:58
himesamaalso used as a drug for something idr what02:59
LjLi just thought tea had the same caffeine as coffee03:02
LjLi mean, not the same amount. just that it was the same substance03:02
BrainstormUpdates for Sri Lanka: +6116 cases (now 342079), +124 deaths (now 5464) since a day ago — Turks and Caicos: +15 cases (now 2546), +1 deaths (now 19) since 22 hours ago03:03
himesamai recall some old argument on usenet where one person was claiming that tht two were idential chemials.  it seemed to me that the argument could have been resolved if somebody had access to some reference manual someplace.03:04
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: UK reports 29,612 new coronavirus cases and 104 deaths - as vaccinated number fully nears 40 million → https://is.gd/JGM6s303:05
himesamastartpage hates my text browser now03:05
nixonixthis is one of those that you can probably take a lot safely, if you also eat something else, so overdose is never tried03:05
nixonix"Because there’s been no conclusive research, a safe L-theanine dosage recommendation isn’t known"03:05
nixonixsome sources say that 1200mg should be safe03:05
nixonixtypical uses have been 200-1000mg for different purposes according to some source03:06
LjLuhm03:06
himesamait is a small company that brought it to market (i knew somebody connected).  i doubt there was much internal research.03:07
LjLfrom reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine i get the impression that 1) both coffee and tea have caffeine proper 2) caffeine itself gets metabolized into theabromine, theophylline, and a third thing 3) tea contains some more (direct) theabromine and theophylline than coffee in addition to caffeine03:07
himesamaso it is complex03:08
LjLnixonix, do you know something magical that kills tinnitus ;(03:09
LjLcyanide maybe03:09
nixonixi give up. if you find some adverse effects and doses for them, link me03:10
himesamai was not trying to make any argument --- i am actually neutral and might try theanine03:11
himesamaagain03:11
himesamais there such a thing as microsurgery to snip the relevant nerves or an you blast the ear with the same frequency to affect the processing of that frequency03:11
nixonixtinnitus, idk. i got once for using too loud volumes from headphones, so using less volume was the key. now i have from some ili induced ear inflammation (it wasnt rona!), and its still there03:12
LjLhimesama, as to the first, they actually *cut off* the entire acoustic nerve from someone who had monster tinnitus (and presumably was also deaf from that ear anyway), and after surgery, the tinnitus was STILL there. it seems to be a complex thing that "starts in the ear but continues in the brain"03:12
nixonixmaybe leaving coffee, but im not doing it...03:12
himesamawhat about anti inflammatories or anti oxidants or anti convulsants03:13
LjLhimesama, as to the latter, i do blast my ear with similar frequencies, in particular i use https://generalfuzz.net/acrn/ which was designed as a therapy but doesn't really work as a therapy but while you're listening to it it does thwart it a bit (beware volumes / frequencies if you try it)03:13
himesamacoq10 or such, neuroprotectants and such, ms drugs and such03:13
nixonixi guess i could try some day if ibu makes any difference. or maybe do some googling03:14
himesamais it visible in the brain as demyelination or anything like that or is it not been investigated for that03:14
LjLnixonix, this is one of those nights when tinnitus makes me feel like ripping my ears off. i only have it in the left year and no idea what caused it, but i've had it since 2017. it is intermittent, so like two days ago i had almost none, but today it's awful even with this noise machine i always use to cover it03:14
nixonixq10 im eating, and some other supplements some of which might be antioxidative03:15
pwr22I've had tinnitus since I was a child and learning to deal with it mindfully is what has worked the best03:15
pwr22I rarely notice it now and it no longer bothers me when I do03:15
LjLhimesama, not as demyelination, i don't think, but it's visible in that some study found almost the *whole* brain behaves differently with tinnitus. as in, there were differences i think in fMRI that weren't specific to auditory regions03:15
himesamasleep rest03:16
pwr22I think tinnitus can have a bunch of causes. Some on the ear and some in the brain03:16
LjLpwr22, what sort of frequency is it? mine is a very high frequency, like 15khz or so, i've always hated that sort of tones03:17
himesamai assume benzos don't do anything03:17
LjLhimesama, well, i'm gonna say no03:17
pwr22I'm not sure exactly, fairly high pitch03:17
pwr22It can vary a bit too03:18
LjLmine is so high i can't really tell exactly if it varies, it could be anywhere between 13k and 16k. if i try to match it to a tone, it's... somewhere in that vicinity (15k-16k is about the limit of my hearing anyway)03:18
LjLi suppose i'm doing the opposite of mindfulness by trying to cover it03:18
pwr22Ah, I can hear higher03:19
LjLyou're probably younger:P03:19
pwr22I can hear those animal deterrent things still03:19
pwr22And they are deployed to keep children away here03:19
pwr22Lol03:19
pwr22I'm 31 so maybe03:20
pwr22Overall my hearing isn't great but I can still hear those high things lol03:20
LjLhmm, strange03:20
LjLthey're usually the ones that go first03:20
LjLbut i'm older anyway03:20
pwr22LjL: Maybe, I don't have any interest in trying to tone match mine ha ha03:21
LjLfair enough03:21
pwr22It used to bother me a lot more a long time back03:21
LjLwell i found that when i talk about it, people who are no longer too bothered by it become a little bothered again03:24
LjLso i'll adjourn to next time nixonix is around to suggest magic substances to try03:24
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Hospitalizations.Already ~60% of peak pandemic.Beyond twice the normalized peak of the Delta waves in UK and Israel. → https://is.gd/HwnAly03:26
himesamaexamine.com did not seem to have a pae for tinnitus but perhaps they do03:31
joergLjL: >>trying to cover it<<? AFAIK specially tailored white noise(?) played back to the ear by a hearing-aid-alike device is helping with sort of desensitizing the hearing against the tinnitus, much like allergy desensitizing concept works03:52
joergprobably takes months but is supposed to cure chronic tinnitus. All other treatments only ever succeed to treat accute fresh/new tinnitus03:53
joergwell, maybe the above-mentioned benzos or some other pharmaceutical approach to lower stress and sensitivity of hearing are another promising supplementary treatment for chronic tinnitus03:55
joergjust occurs to me that chronic pain treatment has a very similar aspect, there's a self-sustaining "vicious loop" of nerves remembering the pain which you need to de-learn/forget as otherwise the pain sustains even while the original triggering cause has long gone03:58
LjLjoerg, i don't know what this is, i have had an MRI scheduled for two years, because tinnitus in only one ear needs to be checked in case it's an acoustic nerve neuroma04:48
LjLi have a small noise machine where i always play either white noise or water noise + ACRN tones04:49
LjLi hope it never breaks because i can't find one that's as small as this, and the hearing aids you're thinking about are *expensive*04:49
BrainstormNew from Virological.org: Latest posts: SARS-CoV-2: don't ignore non-canonical genes: Greetings @AMNiewiadomska ! Thanks very much for sharing this tremendous resource, VIGOR4. I too tried it on Wuhan-Hu-1 and was delighted by its ease of use, in general — and its accurate identification of ORF3b, in particular! I’m excited to employ this in the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/HA5N7404:58
BrainstormUpdates for Thailand: +22782 cases (now 839771), +147 deaths (now 6942) since 23 hours ago — France: +33109 cases (now 6.4 million), +69 deaths (now 112514) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +21987 cases (now 6.2 million), +78 deaths (now 130736) since 21 hours ago — Antigua and Barb.: +24 cases (now 1372) since 2 days ago05:07
whatsupboyHi doxycyclin is good medicine? Some of Indian govts providing it to people saying covidkit without warning side effects05:32
whatsupboyand says no side effect to it05:32
BrainstormUpdates for Mexico: +22711 cases (now 3.0 million), +727 deaths (now 246203) since a day ago05:32
himesamawhatsupboy: it can stain teeth in children or something.  it can degrede in the wrong conditions to formaldehyde.  idk what those condistions are (would like to know as i have stored a ot of it in 115f weather...).  there are other things you can read online but those are best known.05:33
himesamaof course as an antibiotic it can also potentially do stuff to your microbiota (gut, nose, etc.)05:34
whatsupboyhimesama: so no harm?05:35
himesamai didn't say that at all05:35
whatsupboyI mean low harm?05:36
himesamait is the only antibiotic i do not react to05:36
himesamathat i know of05:36
whatsupboyhimesama: thank you05:37
whatsupboysomeone can suggest a cold tablet05:37
himesamathere is controversy over whether you can take it with milk05:38
himesamabut that refers only to efrfectiveness05:38
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Canada planning Covid-19 vaccine passport for international travel → https://is.gd/M0Bjsa05:39
TurboTechHi Guys05:44
TurboTechWhat a freaking day.  Had to reinstall Linux for the 2nd time in a week.05:44
whatsupboyTurboTech: good05:46
whatsupboyI used to do everyday when I was alinux noob05:46
TurboTechI have used Linux for 12 years.  I was trying to make it run a little better and of course I screwed it up.05:47
TurboTechIt is so quirky.05:47
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Nurse suspected of giving thousands in Germany saline solution instead of COVID-19 vaccine → https://is.gd/fero9G06:00
BrainstormNew from This Week In Virology: TWiV 792: Transmission with Jeffrey Shaman: Jeffrey Shaman returns to TWiV to explain how epidemiologists measure SARS-CoV-2 movement among humans, including calculation of the reproductive index, secondary transmission, and what factors affect transmission. → https://is.gd/zuCcGN06:11
BrainstormNew from Politico: US Children’s hospitals are swamped with COVID patients — and it may only get worse: Nearly 1,600 kids in the US with COVID-19 were hospitalized last week, according to the CDC — a new seven-day record and a 27 percent increase from the week before. → https://is.gd/SCX1aS06:32
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Age restrictions on AstraZeneca shot have ended reports of rare clots: UK scientists → https://is.gd/cfkuxE06:42
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +2609 cases (now 1.1 million), +3 deaths (now 25282) since 23 hours ago06:59
BrainstormUpdates for New York, United States: +6653 cases (now 2.2 million) since a day ago — Iowa, United States: +4872 cases (now 387273), +17 deaths (now 6210) since 6 days ago — Ohio, United States: +3393 cases (now 1.1 million) since a day ago — New Jersey, United States: +1686 cases (now 1.1 million), +6 deaths (now 26665) since a day ago07:37
BrainstormUpdates for India: +41195 cases (now 32.1 million), +502 deaths (now 429517) since 23 hours ago08:45
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Indonesian army says it has stopped invasive 'virginity tests' on female cadets → https://is.gd/VXLmj009:00
himesamadoes effectiveness of x percent mean that probability of infection taking hold in non-upper-respiratory-tract locations of body, in same circumstances, is x percent of that probability in unvaccinated?09:05
himesamaif not what does it mean?09:05
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | August 12, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/qqutae09:10
undefined_boboh no why is this channel now bridged?09:33
BrainstormUpdates for Armenia: +399 cases (now 233400), +5 deaths (now 4669) since 23 hours ago09:59
BrainstormNew from Politico: UK GDP still below pre-pandemic level as recovery sparks boost: U.K. gross domestic product (GDP) is estimated to have jumped by 4.8 percent between April and June 2021 as services, production and construction output all increased with the easing of coronavirus restrictions. The numbers — the first quarterly estimate of GDP in [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/OxPBi510:03
BrainstormNew from Emma Hodcroft: @firefoxx66: On my birthday, I asked for donations to help increase to both COVID-19 vaccinations & routine vaccinations - & I've been blown away by the response! 🎉We've raised $2,693 together - truly incredible & far above my $1000 goal! 💉💵🌍🌏THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH! ♥️ → https://is.gd/b9Ub8Z10:24
BrainstormUpdates for Estonia: +372 cases (now 136228) since 22 hours ago10:37
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Health: The decision to pull loved ones out of nursing homes when the pandemic hit was a great alternative — for those who could afford it → https://is.gd/oI4cXH10:46
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: New Zealand eyes opening to vaccinated travellers early 2022 → https://is.gd/KxtAZp10:56
BrainstormUpdates for Philippines: +12323 cases (now 1.7 million), +165 deaths (now 29539) since 23 hours ago11:02
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: COVID-19 numbers in SE Asia plateaued over past month mainly due to cases in India remaining stable: WHO → https://is.gd/EaPZfB11:50
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Concorso a 40 posti di Referendario T.A.R. anno 2019, graduatoria di merito e dichiarazione vincitori ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/concorso-40-posti-di-referendario-tar-anno-2019-graduatoria-di-merito-e-dichiarazione )12:05
BrainstormNew from ProPublica: My Kids’ School Won’t Reinstate Masks Despite a Recent Surge in COVID Cases. Here’s What I Chose to Do.: by Nicole Carr ] ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up for Dispatches , a newsletter that spotlights wrongdoing around the country, to receive our stories in your inbox every week. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/EHFLMI12:33
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +5500 cases (now 3.8 million) since 23 hours ago12:41
SpearRavenIvermectin now used in ICU in Australia to save lives12:57
SpearRavenreport comes from 'the front'. none official at this time13:01
de-facto.title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95799-613:15
Brainstormde-facto: From www.nature.com: A molecular test based on RT-LAMP for rapid, sensitive and inexpensive colorimetric detection of SARS-CoV-2 in clinical samples | Scientific Reports13:15
BrainstormNew from BMJ: Covid-19: Schools are not hubs of infection and are safe to reopen after summer break, study shows: The prevalence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus in schools in England was lower in June this year than during the autumn term of 2020, a new study shows.The covid-19 schools infection survey, run jointly by... → https://is.gd/idiAYF13:15
BrainstormNew from ECDC: ECDC: Data for the maps in support of the Council Recommendation on a coordinated approach to the restriction of free movement in response to the COVID-19 pandemic in the EU/EEA → https://is.gd/o2qmzJ13:26
BrainstormUpdates for Romania: +371 cases (now 1.1 million), +3 deaths (now 34334) since a day ago — Switzerland: +9 deaths (now 10918) since 21 hours ago13:31
BrainstormNew from ECDC: Data on country response measures to COVID-19: This downloadable data file contains information on non-pharmaceutical interventions (or response measures)  that countries in the EU/EEA have reported to date. → https://is.gd/6BvFYG13:47
BrainstormUpdates for Malaysia: +21668 cases (now 1.3 million), +318 deaths (now 11691) since a day ago14:08
BrainstormNew from ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. Each row/entry contains the number of new cases and deaths reported per day and per country in the EU/EEA. → https://is.gd/tBASDi14:09
BrainstormNew from Pfizer: VTX-801 Receives U.S. FDA Fast Track Designation for the Treatment of Wilson Disease:  kimkevin Thu, 08/12/2021 - 08:00 Thursday, August 12, 2021 - 07:00am Paris, France and New York, NY, August 12, 2021 – Vivet Therapeutics (“Vivet”), a clinical-stage biotechnology company, and Pfizer Inc. (NYSE: PFE) today announced the U.S. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ttPeOY14:20
BrainstormNew from Emma Hodcroft: @firefoxx66: There is absolutely no reason why 'red tape' & 'bureaucracy' should be standing in the way of #VaccineEquity when people are going to these lengths to distribute vaccines.Yes, it's complicated. Yes, needs to remain safe. But we can do *so* much better than we are doing. → https://is.gd/S3ulRr14:30
BrainstormUpdates for Nepal: +2473 cases (now 725769), +32 deaths (now 10212) since 23 hours ago14:33
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: The data for neutralizing antibody titer decline and its association with risk of Delta infection has become clear from multiple studies, such as the Vietnam report in healthcare workers with infections https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733https://is.gd/cCIWi214:41
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Chinese state media cited a Swiss biologist who said the US interfered with the WHO's COVID-19 investigations. The Swiss embassy says the biologist likely doesn't exist. → https://is.gd/6WM7FZ15:14
BrainstormUpdates for Azerbaijan: +2674 cases (now 359732), +14 deaths (now 5109) since 19 hours ago — Switzerland: +2127 cases (now 733275) since 23 hours ago15:35
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Can Covid vaccine shots lead to clotting disorder in some rare cases? Here’s what a doctor says → https://is.gd/byvIKO15:47
BrainstormUpdates for Serbia: +983 cases (now 729150), +1 deaths (now 7152) since 21 hours ago — Norway: +574 cases (now 142895) since 23 hours ago16:00
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Most Covid patients at Israeli hospital fully vaccinated? What does this mean for Australia? → https://is.gd/HI26uJ16:08
BrainstormNew from NPR: Fauci Says COVID-19 Booster Shots Are Needed For Those Who Are Immunocompromised: Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's leading infectious disease expert, tells NPR's Morning Edition "it is so imminent that we get them boosted so that they would be in a protected zone." → https://is.gd/8CXu4116:19
BrainstormUpdates for Kosovo: +1009 cases (now 112653), +2 deaths (now 2276) since a day ago — Bangladesh: +10126 cases (now 1.4 million), +215 deaths (now 23613) since a day ago — Brunei: +49 cases (now 543) since 14 hours ago — Bhutan: +1 deaths (now 3) since 22 hours ago16:37
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Dr. Makary Says Natural Immunity Is More Effective Then Vaccine Immunity → https://is.gd/B4Maht16:52
pwr22Welcome Stavros16:56
pwr22 * Welcome Stavros 👋16:56
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Randomized, Unicentric, Open, Controlled Clinical Trial, in Phase Iii, to Demonstrate the Effectiveness of Tocilizumab → https://is.gd/KeUfrq17:03
Stavros[m]<pwr22> "Welcome Stavros" <- Hello!17:25
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Investigating the Potential Role of Aerosolized All-trans Retinoic Acid for Treating COVID-19 Anosmia and Regaining Sense of Smell. → https://is.gd/qbMAji17:36
BrainstormUpdates for Greenland: +20 cases (now 221) since a day ago17:39
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): A Phase Ⅱ Clinical Trial of SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine (Vero Cells), Inactivated in Healthy Population Aged 3 to 17 Years(COVID-19) → https://is.gd/4RqTYq17:46
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +20648 cases (now 6.2 million) since 23 hours ago18:04
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: The impact of mRNA vaccination doses on T cell priming vs #SARSCoV2. New @ImmunityCP Dose 2 important for people with no prior Covid, but single vaccine dose achieved this well with prior Covidhttps://www.cell.com/immunity/fulltext/S1074-7613(21)00308-3 @markmpainter @WherryLab @SetteLab @EJohnWherry @ljiresearch → https://is.gd/Dwc6TK18:08
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +7267 cases (now 4.4 million), +30 deaths (now 128334) since 22 hours ago — North Macedonia: +639 cases (now 159908), +6 deaths (now 5527) since a day ago18:29
BrainstormNew from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA SALUTE - ORDINANZA 11 agosto 2021: Ulteriori misure urgenti per la sperimentazione di voli Covid-tested.(21A05053) → https://is.gd/2XVQVQ18:29
BrainstormUpdates for Guernsey: +15 cases (now 1047) since a day ago19:06
finely[m]<SpearRaven> "Ivermectin now used in ICU in..." <- False. 7:20 of this podcast19:23
finely[m]https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/healthreport/frontlines-of-nsw-covid-outbreak/1348040419:23
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: AEG to Require Proof of Full Vaccination At All US Venues → https://is.gd/W8ftxs19:23
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: We often tag @justsaysinmice when a report is only conducted in mice, not people.We need #justsayitsDelta or not for covid findings. Pre-D posts are not particularly helpful unless it's for comparison sake. → https://is.gd/mgBZoE19:54
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Emergenza incendi in Aspromonte, Draghi telefona al sindaco di Reggio Calabria ( https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/emergenza-incendi-aspromonte/17655 )20:05
BrainstormNew from WebMD: A COVID Super Spreader in 2020, Sturgis Motorcycle Is On Again: Infectious disease doctors fear the rally will become a super-spreader event, especially with the highly transmissible Delta variant triggering an increase in COVID cases nationwide → https://is.gd/yNkA8R20:05
BrainstormUpdates for Montenegro: +389 cases (now 105002), +1 deaths (now 1640) since a day ago — Spain: +17410 cases (now 4.7 million), +87 deaths (now 82407) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +31550 cases (now 6.2 million), +64 deaths (now 130774) since 17 hours ago20:08
LjLwhen i tell my mom that an FFP2 should be imperative when going shopping, she says they always wear it when shopping. but then i was just with them and they went to a supermarket with surgical masks, it's pretty crowded here now given it's high tourism season, the place did only allow 10 people in at a time (but there probably were more, they keep 10 carts and you have to take a cart, but if multiple people enter with the same cart...)20:09
LjLi don't know how to make them understand without a big argument that it's FUCKING AIRBORNE20:10
lunatunesif they can't see it they don't really get it20:12
lunatunesIts why I do feel they should have cameras show people getting sick and how full the hospitals are again. They did in the beginning and it helped people understand.20:12
LjLwe live in Lombardy, i think they should have seen more than enough of that20:15
de-factoi think they are going to avoid NPIs, let incidence get out of control (and regret that later when they realize they are breeding evasive mutants the most efficient way possible), just to motivate people to get vaccinated20:15
de-factoat least that is how current attitude of managing the situation looks like to me, maybe i am wrong though20:16
de-factoalso they make testing mandatory for participation in several social activities (good!) but only for non-vaccinated (ignoring breakthrough or reinfections) and make non-vaccinated pay for their tests (i guess to motivate vaccination, yet may also motivate to avoid tests)20:18
de-factotalking about Germany20:18
finely[m]<LjL> "i don't know how to make them..." <- https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=382987320:21
finely[m]History of the incorrect scientific consensus of airborne vs droplet. 'The 5 micron myth'.20:21
LjL"Moderna is a much higher dose. It’s been obvious Moderna is a lot better vaccine for awhile, but no one wants to talk about it. LA data shows similar data."  https://twitter.com/SunnyDfan4eva/status/142559861662284595420:21
LjLhas it been obvious, before the Qatar and Mayo Clinic studies?20:22
LjLi must have missed it because no one wanted to talk to me about it20:22
LjLi know that study, but i don't think i can get them to read a scientific paper in english lol20:22
LjLanyway even if it *were* true that there's a "cutoff" of 5µm, https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab691/6343417 now shows that 85% of droplets emitted *are* below that threshold20:23
binno it hasn't been obvious, previous studies showed them to have nearly identical efficacy against existing variants at the time20:37
binand there were talks about moderna dropping their dosage down to spread more20:37
joerg>><de-facto> at least that is how current attitude of managing the situation looks like to me<< fullack20:41
joergin context (>>but only for non-vaccinated<<) I'm just watching a retake of last Maischberger with Lauterbach clearly telling >>vaccinated WHEN they catch infection are themselves as infectious as any unvaccinated person<<  Finally clear words telling unheard old news20:44
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Aerosol and Surface Stability of SARS-CoV-2 as Compared with SARS-CoV-1 ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/JSB6E6NU )20:45
de-factoLauterbach always tries to tell the current understanding including newest updates but gets a LOT of critique for doing so, yet in the aftermath remains the most accurate estimate of what really took place, he just does not participate in the wishful thinking attitude20:49
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Safety and immunogenicity of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine against SARS-CoV-2: a preliminary report of a phase 1/2, single-blind, randomised controlled trial ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/XP5M8J9M )20:50
himesamaif moderna is a higher dose than pfizer, is this because all ingredients in proportion are higher?  or do they stuff more mrna in the lnp?20:51
himesamaspread? --- 11:37 <bin> and there were talks about moderna dropping their dosage down to spread more20:52
de-factoCureVac 12µg mRNA, BioNTech 30µg modRNA, ModeRNA 100µg modRNA per dose20:54
de-factoyet its different sequences, hence may not be proportional to the amounf of spike-glycoprotein they produce20:54
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Prevalence of SARS-CoV-2 in Spain (ENE-COVID): a nationwide, population-based seroepidemiological study ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/BHKRZWIX )20:55
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Covid-19, the results of the seroprevalence survey illustrated ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/FESWHRRG )20:55
de-factobut the s-protein is exactly the same, Wuhan-Hu-1 with two prefusion stabilizing proline replacements20:56
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Replace Imperial paper with archive.org version as it&#39;s a 404 now ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/120e9bae1eb28c3efde0b4595396f88d56052445 )20:56
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Replace Imperial paper with archive.org version as it's a 404 now → https://is.gd/UvnCXT20:59
-Bridgestorm- ⭕ Earthquake! 7.6 Mi tremor, registered by EMSC,PT,alomax, occurred 27 minutes ago (18:32:55 UTC), during twilight, South Sandwich Islands Region (-57.39, -24.79) ± 1 km, ↓77 km likely felt 780 km away (service.iris.edu)21:00
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: SARS-CoV-2 seroprevalence trends in healthy blood donors during the COVID-19 Milan outbreak ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/94A9HE6J )21:00
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV, and MERS-CoV viral load dynamics, duration of viral shedding, and infectiousness: a systematic review and meta-analysis ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/XN6EHWDZ )21:00
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Rational use of face masks in the COVID-19 pandemic ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/BQQB6NSE )21:06
himesamawhat about inactive ingredients --- 11:54 <de-facto> CureVac 12µg mRNA, BioNTech 30µg modRNA, ModeRNA 100µg modRNA per dose21:06
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2 in Hong Kong and in residents evacuated from Hubei province, China: a multicohort study ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/7UGCN3W9 )21:06
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/TECSQQD3 )21:06
de-factoidk about inactive ingredients amounts21:08
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: IHME | COVID-19 Projections ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/RW6BDCZP )21:10
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Covid-19: Temporal variation in transmission during the COVID-19 outbreak ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/E3WTDDAT )21:10
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: U.S. COVID Risk &amp; Vaccine Tracker ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/F63HF2XK )21:10
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Event Horizon - COVID-19 ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/KF8P6Q9Q )21:10
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: COVID-19 Scenarios ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/UJRFUBEG )21:10
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Covasim ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/ZYSBRL4H )21:15
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Epidemic Calculator ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/9ZIJXAGT )21:15
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: COVID-19 Daily Epidemic Forecasting ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/MGWU6QJR )21:20
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Reproductive number of the COVID-19 epidemic in Switzerland with a focus on the Cantons of Basel-Stadt and Basel-Landschaft ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/K9CNCLRA )21:20
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: More than 50 long-term effects of COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/VZEHC3TV )21:30
BrainstormUpdates for Ethiopia: +898 cases (now 287184), +2 deaths (now 4452) since 23 hours ago — France: +40274 cases (now 6.4 million), +53 deaths (now 112547) since 23 hours ago21:35
`St0nerwhat's all this zotero.org crap21:39
LjLoyubhkjnmä-21:42
LjLfuck you21:42
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Very good instructional infographic by @LaurenLeatherby @nytgraphics to convey the impact of per cent vaccinated or unvaccinated on Delta infection spread and outcomes https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/12/science/covid-delta-breakthrough.html?smid=tw-nytimesscience&smtyp=cur w/ @nataliexdean, Cécile Viboud, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/rUvZIZ21:42
LjLyou don't want to see "crap"21:43
LjL/ignore the fucking bot21:43
LjLdon't keep demeaning the work i'm doing21:43
LjLor just leave21:43
LjLyou don't have to be here21:43
LjLyou don't like that things get posted here, go somewhere you like21:44
LjLthat goes for yesterday as well21:44
LjLjoerg, how about i chill down if they stop saying things like this?21:44
LjLor else maybe i don't21:44
joergLjL: the right approach, just too much emotion21:46
joergnot worth it, just manage it this way21:46
joergnobody is forced to be in this channel21:46
generastill. who is zotero. i think i saw the name before?21:47
LjL%wik Zotero21:47
BrainstormLjL, from English Wikipedia: Zotero /zoʊˈtɛroʊ/ is a free and open-source reference management software to manage bibliographic data and related research materials (such as PDF files). Notable features include web browser integration, online syncing, generation of in-text citations, footnotes, and bibliographies, as well as integration [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zotero21:47
generaooh21:47
LjLthe Zotero library for this channel is in the topic21:48
generagud21:48
joergLjL: and since I didn't say it for to long - thanks for this channel and for Brainstorm21:50
joergtoo*21:51
LjLwell, i try to do something decent, so i get emotional if people just dismiss it. that and i'm just prone to be emotional i guess21:51
joergwe know and love you like that :-)21:52
joergI'm just worried you feeling bad for no good reason when you go upset about unfounded unsolicited critizism21:53
joergnot worth it. My recommendation is "stay calm, there's always somebody who loudly disagrees21:55
* genera reads https://www.edmtunes.com/2021/08/berlin-venue-arena-encourages-vaccinations-with-3-free-vax-parties/21:59
BrainstormUpdates for Anguilla: +14 cases (now 127) since 23 days ago22:00
joergvax center with DJ ;-D22:01
joergI seen video clips. Even dancing allowed but nobody did22:02
generai just "found" this news. but i dont see how they do it. masks and 1.5 meter ?22:03
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: US government expands COVID-19 vaccine requirements: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Aug 12, 2021 At a White House briefing today, officials said Florida and Texas make up 30% of the nation's COVID hospitalizations and that federal advisory groups are on the cusp of recommending booster doses for immunocompromised people. → https://is.gd/zFMAcC22:04
generaor test required?22:04
joergyes, masks and 1.5 meter22:06
joergI don't think they mandate a test, though maybe they should. Could be a great idea22:07
generai would require the CWA but that would be me^^22:09
joergwhat's CWA?22:09
generacorona warn app22:09
joergfailed concept22:10
joerga pity22:10
himesamamight even have looked like bot errors or something to the person who was talking about them, and had nothing to do with criticizing any person.  "be kind" can be bidir.12:55 <joerg> not worth it. My recommendation is "stay calm, there's always somebody who loudly disagrees22:12
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Listen: Biden’s drug pricing plan, Wall Street’s Alzheimer’s fixation, & daily 5 a.m. alarms: Can drug pricing help Democrats keep the Senate? Why is there still no nominee for FDA commissioner? And when will we get snortable vaccines? All that and more on the… → https://is.gd/YJnMBo22:25
himesaman.b. not liking something and having a STRONG stress reaction are different. love it or leave it is an strong reaction imo when this is the only channel of its quality.  perhaps there could be opportunities for valuable criticism/tweaks, in evaluation of news sources, syntax, etc22:33
himesamadon't like the policies in your country?  well then leave your country22:33
himesamatype of reaction can be taken as pretty harsh depending on circumstances22:33
himesamathe channel blurb (can't seem to find it) is intended to help reduce stress, not cast out those who need to do so22:36
himesamaat elast that is my interpretation22:36
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +977 cases (now 1.4 million) since 19 hours ago22:38
LjLhimesama, do you think asking "what is this crap" qualifies as "valuable criticism/tweaks"?22:38
LjLquite ironic22:38
LjLyou were passive aggressive about it22:38
LjLhe was passive aggressive about it22:38
LjLbut it's easier to point to me because i'm the one with the emotional reaction22:39
LjLwith all my heart as before: fuck you22:39
himesamabeg pardon?22:39
pwr22I think perhaps there was a poor choice in wording used 😥? It if was phrased as "Oh, what's all this new Zotero stuff?" then it might have come across differently. I dunno what went down yesterday though 🤷22:39
himesama13:12 <himesama> might even have looked like bot errors or something to the person who was talking about them, and had nothing to do with criticizing any person.  "be kind" can be bidir.12:55 <joerg> not worth it. My recommendation is "stay calm, there's always somebody who loudly disagrees22:40
himesamaor even a recommendation to drop something to brainstorm or add it or whatever22:40
himesamathis is really an extraordinary reaction and highly stressful22:40
himesama(yes, i know then leave...)22:40
LjLyes, leave, ##coronavirus doesn't have bots, it says in the topic of this channel22:41
LjLalso this is not a country, you don't have citizenship, you don't need a passport to leave it22:42
LjLthe analogy is irrelevant22:42
himesamaif it is all your heart does that mean there is no heart left for anything else?  perhaps trying to avoid disputes that one is unable to handle looks like passive aggression?  or... something does.  but was not meant so.22:42
LjLLibera/##covid-19/2021-08-02.log:[04:41:56] <himesama> i vote against markov type stuff if that matters; it could confuse newcomers22:42
LjLi quickly just said "okay" to that22:42
LjLcan you see the difference between that, and "what's this crap" or the stuff you said yesterday22:43
pwr22Probably best if we maybe try to drop the current conversation for a bit, give things time to chill out a little and see if it matters enough to come back to later?22:43
pwr22Things are seeming a little heated in here 😧22:43
LjLwhatever22:46
LjL[23:08:32] <Brainstorm> New from Francois Balloux: @BallouxFrancois: R to @BallouxFrancois: A common argument against equipoise for masks is that they're only 'mildly annoying'. I agree they are for most people, including me. But some find wearing masks unbearable. Again, we don't dispense with vaccine trials because only some people might suffer severe side-effects.5/ → https://is.gd/rYUvdh22:46
LjL[23:08:55] <himesama> who is r and why are we getting these opinion snuippets from brainstorm?22:46
LjLi had just fixed the bot after realizing the twitter feed wasn't working anymore22:46
himesamabeg pardon?  i did not say anything yesterday meant to cause any emotional reaction at all.  basically i was surprised that brainstorm had such a thing in it and assumed it was a regexp misfire or something.  i had no idea r meant reply.  etc.  etc.  etc.  it was i who was being attacked as a result of that?  i found it so stressful i couldn't read it at the time.  i had no idea who fixed what bot or if a bot was fi22:46
himesamaxed.22:46
LjLi'm sorry i'm stressful22:47
LjLi'll help with that22:47
himesamaso apparently i was the target of the response, for saying such a thing.  i don't udnerstand why it got the response.  at all.22:48
himesama(the particular opinion snippet was from a long covid denialist, so i'd strongly assume it was an error.  certainly extremely stressful.)22:52
* joerg idly wonders which percentage of users in here suffers from PTSD22:54
joergme and LjL for sure do :-S22:54
himesamamy certainly extremely stressful comment was not directed toward a user in the channel22:56
generahttps://whdh.com/news/nearly-900-covid-19-cases-now-linked-to-provincetown-outbreak-town-manager-says/  i didnt see that one too23:09
generathe 4th of July party. maskless.23:09
himesamai am skeptical that the sturgis rally will serve as a warning the second time if it did not do so the first time23:11
himesamai can only hope there is natural immunity in north dakota23:11
himesamaor something23:11
pwr22We just have to accept the things we cannot change I guess23:58
pwr22I mean, the way most places are going now we are going to have at least one more bad winter / year of covid-1923:58
pwr22I still think our best bet is to get new iterations of the vaccines out and deployed fast enough to keep up with covid mutations23:59
pwr22And ideally actually apply the good vaccines and human behavioural changes (lockdown, mask, distance etc) to really drive the virus down23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!