| nixonix | its viral vasculitis, so any organ can take damage | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| nixonix | one of the several possible mechanisms for brain damage too. apparently neurotropism is rarish | 00:03 |
| LjL | Jbwncster, the US seems like a bit of a "every tiny entity makes its own rules" place | 00:03 |
| Jbwncster | https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/masks-required-again-in-raleigh-starting-friday-night/19823970/ | 00:04 |
| Jbwncster | LjL: I wish the feds had more power | 00:04 |
| nixonix | its inteesting to watch during this epidemic, how in several countries local governing bodies have more or less to say over central government. here too, currently region governing offices deciding on event and gathering restrictions, that got several ministers angry | 00:05 |
| Jbwncster | The uk? | 00:06 |
| Jbwncster | Canada? | 00:06 |
| nixonix | they have the power over them, but the government somehow took the power over restaurant restrictions from them | 00:06 |
| nixonix | finland | 00:06 |
| Jbwncster | Ah | 00:06 |
| nixonix | (cant remember if italy was a federation or not) | 00:06 |
| Jbwncster | Well states rights are a thing here | 00:06 |
| Jbwncster | It annoys me | 00:06 |
| Jbwncster | States shouldn’t have as many rights as they do | 00:06 |
| nixonix | maybe, but that probably cant be changed in usa | 00:07 |
| LjL | nixonix, italy is not a federation, but healthcare-wise, it almost is. a bit of a strange (and probably mostly detrimental) reform from a few years ago. | 00:07 |
| Jbwncster | It could but it would be hard | 00:07 |
| Jbwncster | Doesn’t Italy have countries within a country | 00:07 |
| Jbwncster | Like Russia but not as weird | 00:07 |
| Jbwncster | Tuscany has a president | 00:08 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/05/world/san-marino-italy-vaccines.html | 00:08 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nytimes.com: As Italian vaccine passports come into force, tiny San Marino is left isolated. - The New York Times | 00:08 |
| Jbwncster | Is San Marino anti vax? | 00:08 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/19/we-booked-straight-away-first-covid-vaccine-tourists-arrive-in-san-marino | 00:08 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.theguardian.com: ‘We booked straight away’: first Covid vaccine tourists arrive in San Marino | Coronavirus | The Guardian | 00:08 |
| nixonix | no, they are offering fifty if you take a russian jab | 00:08 |
| Jbwncster | 50€? | 00:09 |
| nixonix | i guess | 00:09 |
| Jbwncster | Nice | 00:09 |
| Jbwncster | My state gave away 1 million to 3 people in a vaccine lottery | 00:10 |
| Jbwncster | This sunmer | 00:10 |
| Jbwncster | Summer | 00:10 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210810/Natural-vs-vaccine-induced-COVID-19-immunity.aspx | 00:11 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.news-medical.net: Natural vs. vaccine-induced COVID-19 immunity | 00:11 |
| LjL | i know a few americans who think the federal government has already been taking away too many state rights, so i don't know if you'd find a momentum there | 00:11 |
| LjL | Jbwncster, San Marino vaccinated its entire population with Sputnik V much quicker than Italy | 00:11 |
| nixonix | IgM+ B-cells with cross-reactivity are also found in some people, whereas the IgG antibodies are typically specific to the SARS-CoV-2 | 00:12 |
| nixonix | since ljl doesnt correct my joke, i have to: you need to pay 50 for the russian vax | 00:13 |
| LjL | and for three days of stay, i think | 00:14 |
| LjL | doesn't seem like such a bad deal, except for the vaccine | 00:14 |
| LjL | but italians are apparently excluded, so they can get fucked | 00:14 |
| nixonix | you noticed the problem, in that article, with non-certified vaccine use? | 00:15 |
| nixonix | jesus christ, uk and canada again. why do they always think im from either | 00:18 |
| LjL | "IgG and IgA titers rise following the class-switching of B cells after the early IgM response. IgG antibodies remain stable for months or years. IgG titers often decline at rapid or slow rates depending on how high they rose, the subtypes, and the involvement of short- and long-lived plasma cells in the immune response." | 00:18 |
| LjL | i suspect one of these IgG was supposed to be IgA...? | 00:18 |
| nixonix | id prefer to be mistaken as australian. i like their slang terms | 00:18 |
| Jbwncster | Better than Russian | 00:18 |
| Jbwncster | Or Swedish | 00:19 |
| LjL | nixonix, not certifying vaccines used in large portions of the world as valid for travel is bullshit in my opinion | 00:19 |
| LjL | there's very little science and a whole lot of politics in that | 00:20 |
| LjL | i wouldn't love to be getting Sputnik V, but i also don't think the EMA ever had any intention of certifying it (except perhaps when AZ was being "problematic" and we weren't getting enough Pfizer) | 00:20 |
| nixonix | it was strangely put, but i dont think they meant IgA instead of IgG. there are different types of b-cells producing IgG, plasma cells for that circulating ab thats responsible for those high levels during the first weeks or months, then b-cells in GCs that will activete on reinfection with delay of 5 days or so | 00:21 |
| LjL | but then it leaves the fate of IgA hanging | 00:22 |
| nixonix | idk, a lot is open currently about the reduction of spreading. these good vaccines protection wanes faster than expected, infection-wise, but those non-western are just bad (meaning indian variant for all those) | 00:23 |
| nixonix | so when they refuse to accept non-certified vaccines, a bit more must be known about the difference, preventing spreading over the borders. and for vaccine passports within countries too | 00:24 |
| * Jbwncster gives LjL the sinovac | 00:24 | |
| LjL | nixonix, i think it's clear enough that spreading is not prevented even by vaccines that ARE approved, that if we were objective about it, we'd just not allow travel | 00:26 |
| nixonix | IgA just wanes faster than IgG, circulating type. idk if there are germinal center IgA b-cells. also the role of it for some things is currently uncertain. i wrote or pasted something about it lately | 00:26 |
| LjL | saying we allow it with certified vaccines, even though we *know* they don't stop the infection, but don't allow it with "uncertified" vaccines, even though for what we know Sputnik may still be at 90%, is a bit hypocritical | 00:26 |
| nixonix | yeah but its very recent and unconfirmed information, the protection for infections waning so fast. after confirming a lot of things must be reconsidered | 00:27 |
| nixonix | how to get the best possible result, while not as good as was hoped | 00:27 |
| nixonix | (when in reality they just fuck it up in several ways) | 00:27 |
| LjL | also from your article "The republic, which is not an EU member, signed a deal with Russia in February after doses of other vaccines it had been expecting to receive from Italy via the bloc’s procurement programme did not arrive." | 00:28 |
| LjL | so San Marino may have been cunning and everything with their "travel plan", but they also were disappointed - like i think most of the rest of us - when vaccines weren't coming as promised | 00:28 |
| LjL | the only difference is they weren't bound to the EU procurement agreements | 00:28 |
| nixonix | any eu country could order sputnik if it wants, and use it | 00:29 |
| nixonix | some politicians considered it in germany and finland during the winter | 00:29 |
| nixonix | here those supporting our ex presidents idea were mostly antivaxers, though... | 00:29 |
| nixonix | anyway, in uk they used couple of large batches of indian made az (covishield or something i think), that is not eu approved. i might have claimed here, they didnt know which batch their jab was from, but later learned they got the batch number | 00:31 |
| nixonix | but theres been problem, is it eu approved or not. not sure of the status, eu-wide. some countries might have approved it, but not sure if the whole eu | 00:32 |
| nixonix | maybe they did, because i think they approved, for travelling, some chinese vaccine that was in WHOs aproved list | 00:32 |
| LjL | nixonix, China was doing the same nonsense, only allowing people into China if vaccinated with *their* vax | 00:36 |
| LjL | it's apparent it's a geopolitical thing | 00:36 |
| LjL | if you get jabbed by China then you can't travel around Europe, if you get vaccinated by Europe then you can't travel in China | 00:36 |
| nixonix | i saw some eu travelling approved list with one or two chinese, not sure if vaccine was there. but just recommendation. maybe commision | 00:36 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/poland-recognises-ema-approved-covid-19-vaccines-only/ | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.schengenvisainfo.com: Poland Recognises EMA-Approved COVID-19 Vaccines Only - SchengenVisaInfo.com | 00:36 |
| nixonix | yeah, they were saying people outside of china that get their jab if you want to travel to china. in singapore was it, or thailand or something | 00:37 |
| nixonix | certificate qr checking app, google: COVID Certificate Federal Office of Public Health FOPH | 00:43 |
| nixonix | .title https://ec.europa.eu/health/ehealth/covid-19_en | 00:44 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From ec.europa.eu: eHealth and COVID-19 | Public Health | 00:44 |
| twomoon | i'm tired of hearing 'jab/jabbed' but i guess it's shorter than vaccinated | 00:45 |
| nixonix | json schema in the link | 00:46 |
| LjL | nixonix, you can see it on github too | 00:47 |
| LjL | %links eu covid certificate | 00:47 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, https://github.com/ehn-dcc-development/ (European eHealth network - digital covid certificate coordination) and the https://github.com/eu-digital-green-certificates (Official GitHub Organization of the EU Digital COVID Certificates (EUDCC) project, previously known as the EU Digital Green Certificates (DGC)) set the standards and provide reference implementations for the [... want %more?] | 00:47 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/public-health-threats/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/treatments-vaccines/covid-19-vaccines includes vax you have never heard the name before | 00:48 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.ema.europa.eu: COVID-19 vaccines | European Medicines Agency | 00:48 |
| nixonix | "vero cell" is a chinese one i think, that is sometimes called that | 00:49 |
| LjL | i dunno, vero cell is a common cell culture, is a vaccine called that? | 00:53 |
| LjL | i think both of the big chinese vaccines are inactivated virus anyway | 00:53 |
| LjL | %vax vero | 00:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, no such vaccine found. Try checking https://covidvax.org | 00:54 |
| LjL | %vax sinopharm | 00:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Inactivated is a Inactivated virus vaccine developed in China by Beijing Institute of BioProducts (Sinopharm) + Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, which started distribution initially on December 2020 → https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/BeijingInstBio [... want %more?] | 00:54 |
| LjL | %vax coronavac | 00:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, no such vaccine found. Try checking https://covidvax.org | 00:54 |
| LjL | %vax sinovac | 00:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Inactivated + alum CoronaVac is a Inactivated virus vaccine developed in China + Brazil by Sinovac + Instituto Butatan, which started distribution initially on December 2020 → https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/Sinovac [... want %more?] | 00:54 |
| LjL | %vax NVX-CoV2373 | 00:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, no such vaccine found. Try checking https://covidvax.org | 00:54 |
| LjL | %vax Vidprevtyn | 00:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, no such vaccine found. Try checking https://covidvax.org | 00:54 |
| LjL | maybe the EMA is just making up names | 00:54 |
| nixonix | no, it was finlands approved for travelling vaxes. naturally they accepted all them chinese etc... | 00:55 |
| LjL | lol, italian headline: "Vidprevtyn il vaccino made in Italy", you look it up, it's made by Sanofi-Pasteur | 00:55 |
| nixonix | i tried to google: "spikevax" "ufovax" - i got only two links. then i added "picovax", zero links | 00:56 |
| nixonix | so we dont have a list with all the vaccine names anywhere! | 00:56 |
| nixonix | (i had seen vidprevtyn before somewhere, once or twice) | 00:57 |
| LjL | yeah i'm not sure Vidprevtyn is even listed at https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccines-full-list at all... although it lists *two* Sanofi-Pasteur vaccines. how many are they making? maybe they should try making one that works, since so far, they have failed ;( | 00:57 |
| nixonix | yeah, its just another name for that sanofis failed vax, or maybe for updated version | 00:58 |
| bernard__ | why did .se had less cases than .uk? | 00:58 |
| LjL | i wish there was a vaccine database with an actual API. so far i'm scraping covidvax and i'm not really looking forward to scraping more things | 00:58 |
| nixonix | with gsk's AS03 squalene adjuvant, unless they changed it, but i doubt | 00:58 |
| nixonix | that was used in pandemrix | 00:58 |
| nixonix | that narcolepsy vax | 00:59 |
| LjL | bernard__, because having the exact same number of cases would be exceedingly unlikely, and having more cases would have been roughly equally likely (per capita, anyway) | 00:59 |
| LjL | but jokes aside, Sweden had *more* COVID cases per capita than the UK | 00:59 |
| nixonix | but it maybe good for b-cell maturation. its possible that some day we replace those fast waning mrna vaccines with that or some other adjuvanted vax | 00:59 |
| LjL | if you just look at absolute numbers, well... that makes no sense, obviously | 00:59 |
| nixonix | theres no vaccine called karatevax | 01:01 |
| LjL | kungfluvax? that was one of the uncouth names for COVID that caused scandal | 01:03 |
| nixonix | sanofi's vax uses flublok technology (i think it was unadjuvanted, and pandemrix with squalene beat it in ab maturation comparison, in some paper) | 01:04 |
| LjL | i think you're just making up words now | 01:06 |
| dTal | "flublok technology" definitely sounds fictional | 01:12 |
| dTal | roughly Doctor Who cheesiness level | 01:12 |
| whytek | this pandemic is bigger on the inside. | 01:13 |
| dTal | or like something out of a toothpaste advertisement | 01:13 |
| whytek | But come to think of it.. We should probably be putting more effort into building a tardis than a vaccine. | 01:14 |
| whytek | Then just go back and stop the virus. | 01:14 |
| whytek | easy peasy. | 01:15 |
| dTal | Tardii are grown, silly | 01:15 |
| whytek | hah! you just outed yourself as a true fan of the doctor. | 01:15 |
| dTal | would a true fan murder that plural so luridly | 01:16 |
| nixonix | bbc destroyed the original tapes, 97 episodes lost forever | 01:20 |
| nixonix | (never seen the series, old or new) | 01:20 |
| LjL | :( | 01:20 |
| LjL | copyright strikes again, i guess | 01:21 |
| nixonix | why did they destroy them? finnish wiki doesnt say | 01:21 |
| LjL | probably just overwrote them | 01:21 |
| LjL | "Between 1967 and 1978 the BBC routinely deleted archive programmes, for various practical reasons (lack of space, scarcity of materials, a lack of rebroadcast rights)." | 01:22 |
| nixonix | thats crazy. well maybe they were quickly done trash entertainment, they thought nobody would miss | 01:22 |
| LjL | uncited but also "This happened for several reasons, primarily the belief that there was no practical value to its retention." - such shortsightedness | 01:24 |
| LjL | it seems they literally thought that | 01:24 |
| dTal | it does seem bizarre, that you'd spend all that money and go to all that effort just to produce a half hour of TV that you air exactly once and then never show again and destroy the only tap | 01:27 |
| dTal | but I guess they saw it more like live theatre than like making movies | 01:28 |
| LjL | dTal, maybe it was still an era of transition from the concept that TV was almost necessarily live, once and it's gone | 01:28 |
| LjL | also, recordings were physically quite large, i guess | 01:28 |
| dTal | I forgive the BBC more for losing some episodes of a low budget scifi series than NASA for literally losing the raw moon footage | 01:30 |
| LjL | lol, they did? | 01:30 |
| nixonix | "North Korea is believed to be confining violators of quarantine rules in “total control zones.” If you enter one of these camps of lifetime imprisonment, you can never rejoin society | 01:30 |
| LjL | some would say NASA lost a high budget scifi sceries | 01:30 |
| dTal | they really did. cue the conspiracy theories. All we have now are recordings of the TV broadcast | 01:30 |
| nixonix | dailynk, most of its stuff isnt probably true | 01:30 |
| dTal | But the original telemetry from the moon, that was not kept. | 01:31 |
| LjL | well, i can't complain, i repeatedly rewrote my valuable C64 BASIC programs onto the same portion of tape until i lost them | 01:32 |
| LjL | "In the early 1980s, NASA's Landsat program was facing a severe data tape shortage and it is likely the tapes were erased and reused at this time.[2]" | 01:33 |
| LjL | the Great Eights Data Tape Shortage. it hit all of us *nod* | 01:33 |
| dTal | still though. Imagine finding that tape, labeled "moon footage (original) (only copy)" and going "phew, finally somewhere to store my ascii erotica" | 01:35 |
| LjL | "The SSTV signal was recorded on telemetry data tapes mostly as a backup in case the real-time conversion and broadcast around the world failed. Since the real-time broadcast conversion worked, and was widely recorded on both videotape and film, the backup video was not deemed important at the time.[1]" | 01:36 |
| LjL | since the camrip worked, and the result was widely available on bittorrent, the film was destroyed | 01:36 |
| dTal | right, so the same mentality as Doctor Who. Live broadcast worked, who needs the tapes? | 01:37 |
| twomoon | lol | 01:38 |
| LjL | "Mike Inchalik, president of Lowry Digital, mentioned that his company would only restore the video and would not remove defects (such as reflections that looked like flag poles).[1]" :P | 01:38 |
| dTal | ...how can you restore a video without removing the defects | 01:38 |
| dTal | lazy bum | 01:39 |
| LjL | dTal, "See also: British television Apollo 11 coverage, much of which is also missing" | 01:39 |
| LjL | "All three UK television channels, BBC1, BBC2 and ITV, provided extensive coverage. Most of the footage covering the event from a British perspective has now been wiped or lost.[1][2]" | 01:39 |
| dTal | well to be fair that must have seemed pretty boring | 01:40 |
| dTal | if they wiped it to make room for doctor who that's a fair trade I reckon | 01:40 |
| nixonix | another moon landing? come on, this is ridiculous! | 01:43 |
| nixonix | "With each successive moon landing after Apollo 11, the public paid less and less attention, and the television networks provided less coverage, with the exception of Apollo 13’s dramatic brush with disaster | 01:43 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/magazine/waning-interest | 01:44 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.sciencehistory.org: Waning Interest | Science History Institute | 01:44 |
| nixonix | they should do it as a reality tv. mike the situation, some kashardians, those from chelsey shore or what it was | 01:46 |
| nixonix | i think they are planning just that for mars | 01:47 |
| nixonix | thats why mars is big. not that there would be anything interesting there | 01:47 |
| rpifan | theres elon musk | 01:48 |
| LjL | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00482-5/fulltext "We identified two cases of a potential vaccine-escape variant from the B.1.621 lineage." | 01:52 |
| nixonix | i wonder when this is mostly over, if those erics keep tweeting | 01:54 |
| nixonix | or if they go to instagram | 01:54 |
| LjL | they might be dead by the time this is mostly over | 01:54 |
| nixonix | but while im joking, they are superstars of this era, that everybody knows. i wonder if people are still interested or if it will be like those moon missions | 01:55 |
| nixonix | btw, topol just tweeted that lancet link | 01:57 |
| LjL | i know, i got it from ##covid-ticker. | 01:58 |
| LjL | it's honestly not a topic i'm super-interested in except for the fact it's threatening to kill us | 01:58 |
| LjL | maybe that explains why you go into some details that seem to much of a headache for me. or i need more theanine. | 01:58 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.ft.com/content/c21e2053-0373-4b8e-80b7-fad10f235604 https://archive.is/1GqZd | 02:03 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.ft.com: Become an FT subscriber to read | Financial Times | 02:03 |
| nixonix | * First to vaccinate and first to party, Israel now mulls lockdowns | 02:04 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/DFisman/status/1426176810627305474 | 02:09 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: David Fisman (@DFisman): "Sharing this via twitter because I think it's in the public interest to know: we now have enough delta cases in kids, and enough pediatric hospitalizations in Ontario, that [...] | 02:09 |
| pwr22 | Oh I missed the Doctor Who chatter | 02:09 |
| pwr22 | I wonder if we can reverse the polarity of the neutron flow in covid? | 02:09 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1426212404124286980 compared to 1.1.7 | 02:11 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Dr Zoë Hyde (@DrZoeHyde): "Yes, that's correct. However, to put these numbers in context, a previous study from the UK found that about 1% of children who *test positive* will be hospitalised. But [...] | 02:11 |
| nixonix | they got similar ratios for adults in canada before, that ive linked here | 02:12 |
| nixonix | eg finnish healtcare officials dismissed those, and have been saying they think or are not seeing indian variant being more severe | 02:13 |
| LjL | nixonix, i'm lost, here SGFT means likely-Delta or likely-nonDelta? | 02:13 |
| LjL | since it would have originally meant Alpha | 02:13 |
| nixonix | but they dont know the prevalence of infections, and its anecdotal anyway, compared to studies, were they right or not | 02:14 |
| nixonix | im too tired, what was that about? | 02:15 |
| LjL | your tweet | 02:15 |
| LjL | the table in it | 02:16 |
| nixonix | ah that table, ill have look see | 02:16 |
| nixonix | oh yeah, s-gene negative means it has that dropout that kent variant has | 02:17 |
| nixonix | so if its s-gene positive, its something else | 02:17 |
| LjL | but then it makes no sense | 02:17 |
| LjL | because "target failure" would mean s-gene negative, no? | 02:17 |
| LjL | which would mean kent variant | 02:17 |
| LjL | surely kent variant isn't worse than delta | 02:17 |
| LjL | and the reverse is what they're saying | 02:17 |
| LjL | i dunno | 02:17 |
| LjL | or is that a "let's remember Alpha" table? | 02:18 |
| LjL | %title https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1412 uhm based on the study title i guess maybe it is | 02:18 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.bmj.com: Risk of hospital admission for patients with SARS-CoV-2 variant B.1.1.7: cohort analysis | The BMJ | 02:18 |
| nixonix | tested between 23 November 2020 and 31 January 2021 | 02:19 |
| nixonix | so kent was HR 1.5x older 614G lines | 02:20 |
| nixonix | but for kids about the same | 02:20 |
| nixonix | im pretty good just guessing acronymes, idk why, but it was supposed to be SGTF, not SGFT | 02:23 |
| nixonix | now i never know if had guessed, bummer | 02:23 |
| Win7ine | so when is the variant adapted mRNA vaccine surfacing? I understood the very advantage of this was its flexibility and adaptibility. Still all helathsectors are pushing old COVID19 inocculation whereas we are at the end of 2021 ... | 02:25 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1421030822539317249 | 02:27 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing): "14) is the #DeltaVariant more severe of a strain? Yes. The CDC deck highlights 3 studies showing higher hospitalization risk and deaths. But it actually missed 2 other [...] | 02:27 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/no-need-yet-to-adapt-pfizer-vaccine-for-covid-variants-biontech-chief-2506512 | 02:30 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.ndtv.com: No Need Yet To Adapt Pfizer Vaccine For Covid Variants: BioNTech Chief | 02:30 |
| nixonix | "We estimate that 11.3%... of patients with COVID-19 in 314 UK hospitals became infected after hospital admission; and ... 6.8% ...of all patients with COVID-19 had nosocomial infections" | 02:33 |
| nixonix | theres a new word to forget | 02:33 |
| himesama | hospital-acquired | 02:34 |
| nixonix | yeah i looked it up. i guess i remember it when i see it again in a context | 02:34 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00357-X/fulltext | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.thelancet.com: Safety, reactogenicity, and immunogenicity of homologous and heterologous prime-boost immunisation with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and BNT162b2: a prospective cohort study - The Lancet Respiratory Medicine | 02:36 |
| LjL | quick and dirty just because i'm starting to get lost | 02:36 |
| LjL | %variant indian | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, That variant may also be called: Delta, B.1.617.2, 21A(Delta); or Kappa, B.1.617.1, 21B(Kappa) | 02:36 |
| LjL | %variant alpha | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, That variant may also be called: B.1.1.7, 20I(Alpha, V1), UK, Kent | 02:36 |
| nixonix | here most schools reopened couple days ago. vaccinating of 12-15 yo started day or two earlier, most having it in schools, but it will at least couple of weeks, and immune response to develop, and only the first dose anyway | 02:39 |
| LjL | Win7ine, at this point variant-specific vaccines are being trialed (by BioNTech/Pfizer for Delta and by Moderna for Beta are the ones i know), but they are not in actual production yet. sure the mRNA can be tweaked quickly, but it's not like you can turn millions of existing doses into a different version... plus, streamlining of approval processes for variant-specific vaccines is certainly under discussion but it wouldn't be trivial to just go "yeah let's use | 02:39 |
| LjL | these without testing them at all" | 02:39 |
| LjL | (although i suspect we will end up there eventually) | 02:39 |
| nixonix | and now im reading its 1.6-4.7 times more severe for kids. our hc officials claiming theres no evidence, while its growing body of evidence from several studies | 02:40 |
| LjL | nixonix, looks like we've already vaccinated a fair amount of 12-18 https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/#vaccinati-per-fasce-di-eta | 02:41 |
| nixonix | ...times more often severe, that is | 02:41 |
| nixonix | mistakes after mistakes they are doing | 02:41 |
| LjL | it looks actually a bit ridiculous how vaccinated younger people are when 60-69 and 50-59 still have so little coverage | 02:42 |
| LjL | (relatively) | 02:42 |
| nixonix | you have 3-4 weeks interval? | 02:42 |
| LjL | depends on the vaccine | 02:42 |
| LjL | 3-4 for mRNA, 12 weeks for AZ | 02:42 |
| LjL | but so yeah i guess 3-4 now mostly | 02:42 |
| nixonix | we had that only during the first couple of weeks, then it was 11-12 weeks until a few weeks ago they allowed ppl to get it in 8 weeks if they wanted | 02:43 |
| Win7ine | LjL, that is my point while the Pandemic is shifting and is based on Delta Governments are pushing old COVID19 vaccine that is now proven to be unefficient to a high degree in that even double jabbed infected individulas are spreading Delta. | 02:43 |
| LjL | Win7ine, okay, so what would you do? | 02:43 |
| nixonix | while i just read somebody was allowed to reduce the interval just 2 or 3 days, the nurse in phone saying the shorter would be bad for ab titers | 02:44 |
| LjL | ("unefficient" isn't a word by the way, but the current vaccines are *not* ineffective) | 02:44 |
| nixonix | also i read several ppl claiming they were refused aspiration, when they asked... | 02:44 |
| nixonix | inefficient is a word i think | 02:45 |
| Win7ine | Shift attention to adjusted mRNA vaccine and its availability for a booster sessionn in September | 02:45 |
| LjL | uhm, annoying, i'm pretty sure that vaccine page for Italy used to have a graph indicating *which of each vaccine type* was being used, but it doesn't anymore unless i'm blind :\ | 02:45 |
| LjL | Win7ine, they won't be available in September | 02:45 |
| LjL | there's no way the trials are completed and production is already up by September | 02:45 |
| Win7ine | The hope was in mRNA being able to adapt quickly once it has a working formula. This was the sales point. | 02:46 |
| LjL | okay i *am* blind. i wasn't seeing that graph because i was zoomed in into it, and so it looked different from what i expected ;( | 02:46 |
| LjL | Win7ine, what about the "sales point" of it having 95% or so efficacy vs 60-70% or so from adenoviral (also a pretty new type), and less than that for inactivated? | 02:47 |
| nixonix | updted version was supposed to need only a trial of a few hundred, in usa. sure it still takes time. but i wonder what are their real reasons | 02:47 |
| LjL | anyway as i said, yes, you can adapt the mRNA sequence quickly | 02:47 |
| LjL | but that doesn't mean the *other parts* of vaccine testing and production magically become quicker | 02:47 |
| Win7ine | As long as there are infections and spreads there will be new variants | 02:48 |
| LjL | they *can* adapt the mRNA formulation quickly, and they have *already* done so. that doesn't mean you get the booster in the blink of an eye | 02:48 |
| LjL | gee, if they take too long to test, they aren't being quick enough | 02:48 |
| LjL | if they take too short to test, they aren't testing enough, and people won't get the vaccine | 02:49 |
| LjL | i think people are the problem at least as much as the vaccine issues | 02:49 |
| nixonix | there would be a problem that they had two different vaccines to deliver for quite a while, from different factories | 02:49 |
| Win7ine | If it took 12 months form 0 to availability then I would expect less time for a new modified version | 02:49 |
| nixonix | it isnt necessarily just quick swap the plasmid template and it starts putting out the new version | 02:49 |
| LjL | it didn't take 12 months from "zero" | 02:50 |
| nixonix | so those getting the old stuff would complain | 02:50 |
| LjL | luckily for us, mRNA technology was being worked on for 20 years, and just happened to be mostly ready | 02:50 |
| nixonix | even if there would be problems like with OAS (i dont think there would, but i may well be wrong) | 02:50 |
| Win7ine | give that delta has been around since March, correct me if I am wrong, September would be manageable if not all sitting on old stock and the Economy would be paramount as usual over people | 02:50 |
| LjL | nixonix, i don't know what real reasons you're after. the trials are ongoing. i don't think they're past their original due date. | 02:50 |
| LjL | they might be trials of a few hundreds, i honestly haven't looked at the amount of people involved | 02:51 |
| nixonix | they did some plain mrna testing before 1990 i think, nanocapsules came a few years later | 02:51 |
| LjL | but that doesn't mean they last two weeks or something | 02:51 |
| LjL | the github page does, i think, have a timeline of their announcement including on variant-specific vaccines, at least for Pfizer and Moderna | 02:51 |
| LjL | %variants beta | 02:52 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, That variant may also be called: B.1.351, 20H(Beta, V2), South African | 02:52 |
| LjL | %trials moderna B.1.351 | 02:52 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, 10 results out of 2152: Immunogenicity and Safety of SARS-CoV-2 Recombinant Protein Vaccines With AS03 Adjuvant in Adults 18 Years of Age and Older as a Primary Series and Immunogenicity and Safety of a Booster Dose of SARS-CoV-2 Adjuvanted Recombinant Protein Vaccines (Two Monovalent and One Bivalent), dated 2021-02-18 (not completed) → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04762680 | 02:52 |
| nixonix | they saw it taking over in may, in uk and starting to take over in some other countries too. so a few hours to get the updated s-protein. arrange trials, a few weeks. they have trials running for the updated version? started when? | 02:53 |
| LjL | The duration of each participant's participation in the study will be approximately: | 02:53 |
| LjL | Original Phase 2 part: 365 days postinjection 2 (ie, 386 days total). Supplemental Cohorts 1 and 2: 365 days post-booster injection (ie, 366 days total). | 02:53 |
| LjL | Supplemental Cohort 3 and all Supplemental comparator groups: 365 days post-injection 2 (ie, 386 days total). | 02:53 |
| Win7ine | mRNA tech was worked on for 20 years but mostly for cancer treatment | 02:54 |
| LjL | nixonix, trial for Beta with Moderna (which they say is effective for Delta too) started in February | 02:54 |
| LjL | %trials biontech B.1.617 | 02:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, 10 results out of 2117: Booster Effects With Autoimmune Treatments in Patients With Poor Response to Initial COVID-19 Vaccine (ACV01), dated 2021-08-06 (not completed) → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05000216 [... want %more?] | 02:54 |
| LjL | %more | 02:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, [...] COVID-19: Safety and Immunogenicity of a Reduced Dose of the BioNTech/Pfizer BNT162b2 Vaccine in a Healthy Population, dated 2021-04-14 (not completed) → https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04852861 [...] → https://paste.ee/p/rGPK7 | 02:54 |
| LjL | %more | 02:55 |
| LjL | Pfizer/BNT are dancing around it for sure | 02:55 |
| LjL | i think AZ are also working on an update, i just kind of ignore them because i doubt Europe will care this time | 02:55 |
| nixonix | they can possibly fix the clotting problem. and its possible the protection for infection wanes slower | 02:56 |
| nixonix | but they would use another vector for another dose | 02:56 |
| nixonix | and what about the 3rd then... | 02:56 |
| LjL | this is fresh https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05004181 and combines a B.1.1.7 vaccine with a B.1.351 one apparently | 02:56 |
| LjL | sorry i mean and a B.1.617.2 one, Indian, Delta | 02:57 |
| LjL | anyway i think BNT/Pfizer started trials on variant vaccines much later than Moderna because they were hoping to "hike the prices" for boosters, presumably of the cheaper thing, i.e. the one they already have, as they promised to investors | 02:58 |
| LjL | which must have something to do with the FDA and CDC saying "no!" quickly and in stereo when Pfizer said they wanted EUA for a 3rd booster with the same stuff in it | 02:59 |
| nixonix | II.Variant-specific booster candidates: mRNA-1273.351 & mRNA-1273.617 (new) III. Multi-valent platform: mRNA-1273.211 & mRNA-1273.213 (new) | 02:59 |
| LjL | but i think Pfizer will win anyway, and we'll get a third dose with the original vaccine, because we can see now that immunity does wane | 02:59 |
| nixonix | you saw those moderna links another day, with info on update? | 02:59 |
| LjL | nixonix, not sure really, i remember something about injecting the first participant, but that might have been pfizer | 03:00 |
| LjL | which sort of update | 03:00 |
| nixonix | im not sure, but i think the pdf was from this link https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-reports-second-quarter-fiscal-year-2021-financial/ | 03:00 |
| LjL | ah yeah, a lot of stuff in that one | 03:01 |
| nixonix | if you check it from logs, i had couple other links too, and/or quotes | 03:01 |
| LjL | last i saw it, it was a presentation, though... | 03:01 |
| nixonix | usa approved 3rd shots | 03:02 |
| LjL | this was the presentation https://investors.modernatx.com/static-files/c43de312-8273-4394-9a58-a7fc7d5ed098 | 03:02 |
| LjL | nixonix, USA only approved 3rd shots for immunocompromised | 03:02 |
| nixonix | full approval supposed to come in couple of weeks. and prob also 5-11 yo vax | 03:02 |
| nixonix | not all old or something yet? | 03:03 |
| LjL | Libera/##covid-19/2021-07-09.log:[19:53:22] <Brainstorm> New from WebMD: CDC and Pfizer at Odds Over Need for COVID-19 Booster Shots: Pfizer and its partner, BioNTech, say research is showing the need for a booster shot of its COVID-19 vaccine, but the CDC, FDA and National Institutes of Health disagree -- for now. → https://is.gd/jkKZQU | 03:04 |
| LjL | Libera/##covid-19/2021-07-09.log:[21:38:13] <Brainstorm> New from FDA Press Releases: FDA: Joint CDC and FDA Statement on Vaccine Boosters → https://is.gd/NLMl7c | 03:04 |
| LjL | Libera/##covid-19/2021-07-09.log:[23:02:25] <Brainstorm> New from CIDRAP: CDC, FDA contradict Pfizer on COVID-19 vaccine booster: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Jul 09, 2021 "Americans who have been fully vaccinated do not need a booster shot at this time," the agencies say. → https://is.gd/QU8C3M | 03:04 |
| LjL | full approval was explicitly denied | 03:04 |
| LjL | sure they may change their mind now that waning was demonstrated | 03:05 |
| LjL | and i'm sure Pfizer are rubbing their hands about it | 03:05 |
| LjL | and i've always said this is a potential conflict-of-interest issue: the vaccine makers are going to be most interested in vaccines that countries 1) will want to buy, but 2) that won't provide full, long-lasting immunity, so that they can sell more later | 03:06 |
| nixonix | maybe they diluted their shit... | 03:06 |
| Win7ine | LjL I agree | 03:06 |
| nixonix | anyways, i read somewhere that moderna's codone optimizations are worse than pfizers. how were the ab titers compared? | 03:07 |
| LjL | the vaccines don't make you magnetic, they don't change 5G reception, they don't restore, or further destroy, the lost moon landing footage; but once we've taken away all this anti-vax nonsense, the fact remains that there is a market that demands profit. | 03:07 |
| LjL | nixonix, so far it seems that Moderna is faring better than Pfizer, from some latest studies (Qatar, Mayo Clinic), although it was countered there may be an artificial effect of antibody waning, where Pfizer seems to work less well simply because it was, on average, given longer ago than Moderna | 03:08 |
| LjL | i dunno if you can compare the AB titers directly since Moderna has a lot more mRNA in one shot than Pfizer | 03:09 |
| nixonix | they vaccinated people earlier with pfizer in quatar, and according to some source, that would be the case in that mayo study too | 03:09 |
| nixonix | and large confidence intervals | 03:09 |
| Win7ine | LjL an there we are: All Health related cannot be treated as a business, it is pervers doing so. | 03:10 |
| LjL | although i'd be surprised if Mayo hadn't adjusted the cohorts to take that into account... | 03:10 |
| nixonix | they didnt have the vaccination dates | 03:10 |
| LjL | Win7ine, well, we should have waken up about that years ago. probably can't do it now in the middle of a pandemic. and we tried anyway - there were some strong players demanding patents be dropped, but it didn't happen | 03:11 |
| LjL | nixonix, they did have the vaccination dates i think, i remember it being mentioned in the abstract... | 03:11 |
| nixonix | was it. i try to find the stuff i had on all that mess tomorrow | 03:12 |
| LjL | nixonix, "We defined cohorts of vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals from Minnesota (n = 25,589 each) matched on age, sex, race, history of prior SARS-CoV-2 PCR testing, *and date of full vaccination.*" | 03:12 |
| LjL | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v2 | 03:12 |
| himesama | when were the qatar subjects likely vaccinated | 03:13 |
| nixonix | hmm, maybe it was something else .. ah i think i remember the claim, those people that were selected for early vaccinations were different. something | 03:13 |
| nixonix | but i dont know if it was true or not | 03:14 |
| himesama | earlier than may? | 03:14 |
| LjL | dunno | 03:15 |
| nixonix | damn im too tired, and ive been off rom l-theanine for 2 days to test if i notice the difference | 03:16 |
| nixonix | but i found the source, rereading | 03:16 |
| nixonix | Soundarajan also noted that the nanoparticulation and nucleotide sequences used in the vaccines are different, but the prevailing hypothesis is that Moderna is more effective against the variant due to the greater amount of mRNA in the vaccine. The Moderna vaccine, especially the second shot, is associated with a greater increase in mild side | 03:17 |
| nixonix | effects compared to Pfizer, Soundarajan added. | 03:17 |
| nixonix | "Thinking back, we think that might be because of the dose," he said. "There is more mRNA, which means it boosts a stronger immune response." | 03:17 |
| nixonix | There are some "caveats" to the study, Soundarajan said. For one, genome sequencing is limited, so the study authors estimated the number of suspected delta variant cases using inferred data. In other words, those studied were not necessarily infected with the delta variant, but were suspected as being so as it is the prevailing variant in the U.S. | 03:18 |
| nixonix | right now. | 03:18 |
| nixonix | The study authors are also unsure whether the lower effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine is due to its status as the first vaccine to receive FDA emergency-use authorization. Because Pfizer's vaccine was the first approved, it was rolled out to communities with higher risks of contracting serious side effects from the coronavirus, Soundarajan said. | 03:18 |
| nixonix | Health care workers and elderly people living in care facilities received the vaccine first, for example, and the data may be inflected by this fact | 03:18 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/article/Pfizer-moderna-vaccine-effective-delta-variant-16380022.php | 03:18 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.sfgate.com: Pfizer vaccine less effective against delta variant transmission compared to Moderna, says study | 03:18 |
| LjL | nixonix, but still the main claim is it's probably because of the dosage (which is actually going to be a bummer for Moderna as they were just trialing a half-dose regimen) | 03:21 |
| nixonix | tech from nanoparticle comes from the same company, but maybe its still different with them | 03:21 |
| nixonix | the mrna induced immune reactions may be different, prob mostly or only due to difference in amount. but pfizer is more effective in production supposedly, with less. | 03:22 |
| nixonix | how is it with viable-damaged ration then - i remember pfizer had problems during the late 2020 if those leaked documents were real, or unaltered from those parts | 03:23 |
| foo | I don't think there's any certainty yet on natural immunity from getting the virus versus getting a vaccine, is there? | 03:23 |
| nixonix | so id like to compare the ab titers. the problem is, the measurement isnt standardized, and varies even within the lab, who does the analysis | 03:23 |
| LjL | foo, certainty would be a tall call, but some other recent study found, i think, longer-lasting antibody titers from people who had had an infection and *then* mRNA, compared to those who had just two doses of mRNA | 03:24 |
| nixonix | and also depends on selection of the neuts used, and individual differencies of the donators | 03:24 |
| foo | LjL: thank you | 03:24 |
| LjL | i think i remember from older studies that *just* an infection, without also a vaccine, was lower | 03:24 |
| nixonix | are they called donators, idk... | 03:24 |
| LjL | but an infection plus a vaccine might well be the "best" combination (presuming you survive the infection unscathed...) | 03:25 |
| himesama | production of what --- 18:22 <nixonix> the mrna induced immune reactions may be different, prob mostly or only due to difference in amount. but pfizer is more effective in production supposedly, with less. | 03:25 |
| nixonix | protein | 03:25 |
| Win7ine | BionTech and Moderna only have supple differences and hiw about people who had 2 x mRNA and Delta infection on top ? Some ended up in ICU. | 03:25 |
| nixonix | due to better codone optimization, is the claim anyway | 03:25 |
| nixonix | synthesis of s-protein in cells | 03:26 |
| foo | Is there anyone in here who believes that side effects of the vaccine aren't fully understood? Not looking to start any "funny business" here, simply curious. eg. I recently saw the vaccine altered the menstrual cycle in women | 03:26 |
| himesama | are there proportionately more excipients in moderna than pfizer? | 03:27 |
| himesama | nixonix: so you are saying pfizer does more with less of the mrna? | 03:28 |
| nixonix | id like to see some study on that, but sure the innate immune reaction in the first couple of days could do lots of things, just usually quite mild effects. then later antibodies, who knows what receptors they bind | 03:28 |
| nixonix | but if they bind to something that causes shit, the infection would be worse | 03:28 |
| LjL | foo, only thing i heard about menstrual cycle is that some anti-vaxxers claim it alters the menstrual cycle of women who have NOT received the vaccine to be near women who have. so there's starting to be a movement to be vaccinated against the vaccinated (or simply to avoid them), which i find beyond ridiculous. so while it's entirely possible there have been such effects, i'd urge to double-check your sources | 03:29 |
| LjL | %papers menstrual cycle vaccine | 03:29 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, 10 results out of 13115: Changes in RT-PCR test results and symptoms during the menstrual cycle of female individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2: Report of two cases by Hua Zheng et al, dated 2020-07-09 → https://www.doi.org/10.1002/jmv.26275 [... want %more?] | 03:29 |
| foo | LjL: lol, that's hilarious. | 03:30 |
| himesama | nixonix: which would you choose pfizer or moderna | 03:30 |
| LjL | foo, but to answer your direct question, yes, i do believe side effects of the vaccines are not fully understood. after all, we weren't quite expecting that rather strange type of blood clots from AZ, nor the myocarditis from mRNA | 03:30 |
| nixonix | its more efficient, dose by dose. pfizer. but idk if moderna produces more s-protein because theres 3x as much mrna. they need more mrna with moderna. maybe not that much more but who knows (they are testing with 50 mcg, supposedly with good results) | 03:30 |
| LjL | foo, in my view though, what's even less understood is the "side" effects of COVID itself, which are very wide-ranging and much more frequent than those of the vaccines... | 03:31 |
| nixonix | id like moderna as a 3rd with the current knowledge they have. but its uncertain information, if it really lasts longer | 03:31 |
| nixonix | there is a eco hair dresser or what are they called, in finland that had on their web page, that they dont want customers having a vaccine dose within month before coming as a client | 03:33 |
| foo | LjL: understood. In the interest of transparency, I'm somewhat vaccine hesitant - I realize, logically, the vaccine makes sense. But that "sense" makes "sense" (haha) when the data is trusted. And I have trust issues (partly joking here, but I do have some family trauma from the medical system...) - to be fair, I also rarely see anyone, ever, and control my environment rather well. | 03:33 |
| nixonix | that spike protein shedding shit of antivaxers | 03:33 |
| Win7ine | foo, take "LONG Covid" for instance, highly individual, dpending on age group, inflammatory mostly in nerves, brain and evidently in blood vessels | 03:34 |
| LjL | foo, also you know, there's a lot of side effects of common drugs that we don't "fully understand" (often we don't even understand how those drugs work in the first place, only that they do, from statistical results from trials...) - for example i see this article about the phenomenon you mention https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/09/1024190379/covid-vaccine-period-menstrual-cycle-research and it points out that the birth control pill can also cause | 03:34 |
| LjL | short-lived changes in the menstrual cycle (and that the ones potentially caused by the vaccine seem to be short-lived, too). and yet a lot of women take the pill without worrying too much about all that. | 03:34 |
| nixonix | btw there are suspected skin things and kidney things from mrna vaccines, maybe mentioned here already. not confirmed, google im too tired to find | 03:35 |
| LjL | foo, in the interest of transparency, i'm scared as hell of COVID, so i was kinda begging to be jabbed, but only because i trust the vaccine more than i trust COVID - which is a pretty damned low bar :P | 03:36 |
| foo | LjL / Win7ine - thanks, again - not trying to "start anything" here - just a dude genuinely trying to think through this. I'm also open to deciding "no" for right now and waiting a bit until there's more data. | 03:36 |
| himesama | foo: i don't call that antivax. i cal it sensible. but that doesn't mean you sholdnot do the vaccine. | 03:36 |
| foo | LjL: haha. | 03:36 |
| foo | I've also spent like $5k+ on my health in 2019 doing extensive blood work, neuro work, gut health etc | 03:36 |
| LjL | i don't call that anti-vax either, per se | 03:36 |
| foo | I would love to see more data... it seems like a lot of things are "general" | 03:37 |
| himesama | do you have diagnoses | 03:37 |
| himesama | or are you trying to get diagnosed | 03:37 |
| foo | eg. all things considered, if we taken the "general health of the world" (which, given fast food joints / etc).... then sure, if we're solving for lowest common denominator, let's take a jab to make this as easy as possible. | 03:37 |
| foo | Not blaming or even saying that's the case, I'd just love some more data here | 03:37 |
| foo | eg. people who get long covid likely have X, Y ... I can't imagine long covid is random | 03:38 |
| himesama | i thin there shoudl be significantlyu more data | 03:38 |
| foo | himesama: me? I don't have covid-19, my parents do right now. | 03:38 |
| LjL | it isn't random, but it isn't true that people who get long COVID necessarily "have" things, either | 03:38 |
| LjL | it may be more common when they do have things | 03:38 |
| foo | LjL: "have" might not be the best phrase, even if someone has certain health dynamics | 03:38 |
| himesama | 18:36 <foo> I've also spent like $5k+ on my health in 2019 doing extensive blood work, neuro work, gut health etc | 03:38 |
| LjL | we also don't really have a clue what exactly "long COVID" is... whether it is a thing, multiple things, whether it's similar or different to other post-viral syndromes... | 03:38 |
| foo | himesama: oh, I was curious and did a ton of tests in 2019 | 03:39 |
| foo | LjL: I see, thanks. | 03:39 |
| Win7ine | foo, all data is collected by the bodies governing studies hence what yuo will ever obtain is what they will give you | 03:39 |
| himesama | you don't hae to tell us but if you have something possibly lc related then you might be at genetic risk of lc | 03:39 |
| LjL | foo, we know for example that persistent symptoms have even been reported in a large percentage of *children* who got COVID, which i find not at all comforting | 03:39 |
| nixonix | did my tinnitus almost disappeared when im off l-thenine? or is it just abs waning, if they caused it | 03:40 |
| nixonix | prob abs, im not leaving theanine or coffee, no matter what | 03:41 |
| LjL | nixonix, now if you make me think that l-theanine may cause tinnitus, i'll never try it ;( | 03:41 |
| LjL | (cause/exacerbate) | 03:41 |
| nixonix | haha, then you can stop if it does | 03:41 |
| foo | LjL: not comforting at all | 03:41 |
| LjL | nixonix, well, i don't know, i have suspicions that my tinnitus was caused by medications to begin with, and it certainly didn't go away | 03:41 |
| foo | himesama: thank you for asking :) From my assessments, I had low seratonin and gaba, overgrowth of a certain gut bacteria which affected my body's ability to absorb zinc which affected allergies, and my cortisol levels throughout the day were jacked (it was highest at night and lowest in the morning... which is the opposite of what it should be) | 03:42 |
| foo | LjL: I have a friend who has that, it sounds annoying. Someone else I know said it's from loud stuff... but another friend who has had it most of his life. | 03:42 |
| nixonix | its just amino acid you get from whey and what not. sold in big cans, cant harm a small spoonful | 03:43 |
| LjL | foo, this channel has a few resources i gathered together at https://github.com/ljl-covid/links and in particular https://github.com/ljl-covid/links#follow-up is mostly about long COVID. also since it was becoming a burden to update it, i started a Zotero library, which is easier to maintain, and this is what you get if you search for the tags "Long COVID" and "Children": https://www.zotero.org/groups/4391070/covid_links/tags/Children,Long%20COVID/library | 03:43 |
| foo | LjL: thank you. | 03:43 |
| himesama | which type of bacterium? the reversed phase of cortisol is common in m.e. which is possibly related to lc and is possibly genetically influenced. | 03:44 |
| LjL | foo, in my case i haven't had it for most of my life (started in 2017), and it's also most likely *not* from loud sounds, so it's either a bit of an unlucky random thing (after all, about 15% of the population have tinnitus), or related to some medication i took, or the reasons i took them for | 03:44 |
| foo | I had to stop watching the news, I found myself obsessing. I have also been heavily shamed by certain family members for not being vax'd which caused me to do some more research. heh | 03:44 |
| foo | himesama: thanks for digging, what's "lc" ? The specific gut bacteria was... hmm... | 03:44 |
| LjL | long covid | 03:44 |
| himesama | butyrate-producing or not | 03:45 |
| himesama | never mind that part | 03:46 |
| foo | I also did a lot of stool testing | 03:46 |
| foo | ahh | 03:46 |
| foo | Proteus mirabilis is what I had an overgrowth of | 03:46 |
| LjL | nixonix, do you hear your tinnitus stronger just after waking up by any chance? | 03:46 |
| himesama | have not hear dof that one | 03:46 |
| foo | Also, for the record - I haven't had covid - at least to my knowledge. | 03:46 |
| LjL | foo, you said your parents have COVID at the moment? | 03:47 |
| nixonix | yeah its ear thing after some cold, it went away, but then lately came back milder. then somehow a bit later than 2nd dose increased, and now it seems to be better | 03:47 |
| nixonix | no i didnt have rona! some cold | 03:48 |
| foo | LjL: yes | 03:48 |
| foo | LjL: they're like day 10 I think | 03:48 |
| LjL | foo, are they vaccinated? | 03:48 |
| LjL | and how are they? | 03:48 |
| foo | LjL: no, also just hesitant and "waiting and seeing" -> father got it from someone at work. I've basically worn masks around them whenever I visit (unless I haven't seen anyone 2 weeks prior, which has happened often with my off-the-grid camping/working lifestyle, ha) | 03:49 |
| foo | LjL: thanks for asking, they're doing ok. It seems to linger, cough | 03:49 |
| foo | Bad headache | 03:49 |
| LjL | foo, cough often does seem to linger, yeah headache too, fatigue most commonly | 03:49 |
| foo | Yup, that's mostly what I've been hearing from them | 03:50 |
| LjL | foo, please don't think that masks are a 100% protection. they are not by any means | 03:50 |
| foo | I'll see them in 1 week, which is like 20 days from when they tested positive | 03:50 |
| LjL | they are probably useful, for sure, but they are not an invisible shield | 03:50 |
| foo | LjL: nah, I understand. I'm usually masked and as far on the side of the room as I can, especially if we're eating, haha. | 03:50 |
| LjL | (especially surgical or cotton masks, but respirators too) | 03:50 |
| foo | I have KN94 masks | 03:50 |
| LjL | that's either KN95 or KF94 :P | 03:50 |
| LjL | ... or a scam :D | 03:51 |
| LjL | anyway, the certification doesn't really matter... N95, KN95, KF94, FFP2 are all roughly-equivalent certifications. what matters is the actual mask quality, which is often abysmal at least with KN95 | 03:52 |
| foo | LjL: or a foo-ism? :P My mistake, I have this: https://behealthyusa.net/products/botn-kf94-mask-black-large-100pcs | 03:52 |
| LjL | good masks have a tight fit - which means nowhere for air to get into your nose without having gone through the mask first | 03:52 |
| foo | LjL: my ear-deformation, sometimes, when wearing a mask tells that story. haha. | 03:53 |
| LjL | foo, KF94 is the Korean certification, and i kind of like that Korean type (which again, is not to do with the certification, it's just that it's common in Korea and that's their certification!) | 03:54 |
| LjL | but the 3M Aura is a mask in a similar style that's better-built than most and has straps that go around your head instead of around your ears | 03:54 |
| foo | LjL: I see :) A doctor friend recommended this at the start of the pandemic. I'm still going through my box since I don't wear them that often | 03:54 |
| foo | Ohh | 03:55 |
| LjL | that's kind of important because the ones that go around your ears generally just aren't enough for a tight fit (unless they saw off your ears in the process) | 03:55 |
| LjL | 3M Auras however are pretty expensive | 03:55 |
| LjL | (at least here and compared to random KN95 or KF94 masks) | 03:55 |
| LjL | i see the ones you got have adjustable earloops though, which isn't very common, they might well be pretty good masks | 03:56 |
| LjL | but ultimately you're the one who needs to tell... breathe in, breathe out, somewhat strongly, and try to notice if any air escapes | 03:57 |
| foo | LjL: I believe you're talking about these: https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Aura-Particulate-Respirator-N95-Foldable-10-Pack-9205P-10-DC/316909322 | 03:57 |
| foo | LjL: I usually am mask-confident... until I happen to be somewhere and smell someone's perfume strongly, then facepalm. | 03:57 |
| LjL | foo, i think the model number is different but that may just be because mine are FFP2 certified while those are N95 (which makes no difference) | 03:58 |
| foo | LjL: I see, thanks for sharing here. :) | 03:58 |
| LjL | just be careful with those headstraps with the Auras, they're more flimsy than they should be for the price (but they will likely go around your head without breaking... when you try at first, it will seem like they won't :P) | 03:59 |
| LjL | importantly imo, they have a foam pad where your nose goes (not just the metal bar), which helps a lot in making the fit tight around your nose | 03:59 |
| himesama | the half faceplate masks have enormous good thing and a couple of bad. first you can test whether they have a seal or not. i don't think you can with n95 type masks without special equipment like smoke and a nose that works. this is enormous. they do have flimsy valves which means ocacsionally a little of your breath will go backward through the canisters. they also have an exhale valve that can stick and require | 04:05 |
| himesama | force to breathe out. and finally valves mean you are not protecting others. i wonder if there are any attachments that will put a filter over the exhale valves of half faceplate masks. | 04:05 |
| himesama | the ability to fit with triple flange is enormous. even if you have not shaved recently opr annot shae3 recently it can still form a seal unlike the good n95 dispoables. | 04:05 |
| himesama | (also, i am guessing you can't test exhalation leaks on disposable n95 at all) | 04:06 |
| foo | I wonder how soon we'll have test-at-home kits for like $20 or something | 04:11 |
| de-facto | here they sell them for 80 cent | 04:14 |
| de-facto | in all supermarkets in germany | 04:14 |
| foo | de-facto: uh, what?! a test you can self-administer at home? | 04:16 |
| de-facto | yes those rapid antigen tests | 04:16 |
| Win7ine | IN UK you get the Lateral low Tests for free delivered to your address | 04:17 |
| Jbwncster | I wish having a mask mandate would allow the police to fine people | 04:18 |
| Jbwncster | They’re afraid to fine people here | 04:18 |
| Jbwncster | The new mandate would be enforced heavily through education and not law enforcement, according to Raleigh Mayor Mary-Ann Baldwin. | 04:18 |
| Jbwncster | So why the fuck are you making a mandate if the police can’t do anything | 04:19 |
| himesama | perhaps there are still those who will do it een if it is not enforced. for example a company could say this is the alw we will fire yoyu. | 04:21 |
| Jbwncster | Yeah | 04:21 |
| Jbwncster | My old job wouldn’t even stop customers from coming in without a mask | 04:22 |
| Jbwncster | And it was a pizza shop | 04:22 |
| Jbwncster | So I quit | 04:22 |
| Jbwncster | And they defied curfews | 04:23 |
| himesama | maybe there are things you can do at nc state or duke or uncch or something | 04:24 |
| Jbwncster | State isn’t requiring students to be vaccinated | 04:25 |
| himesama | is this the govcernor going against what they want or what | 04:26 |
| Jbwncster | Idk | 04:27 |
| Jbwncster | Also apex, fuckway vagina and holly springs won’t have a mask mandate | 04:27 |
| himesama | it does not seem possible to be safe at a university or a restaurant | 04:28 |
| himesama | but sturgis is going to be something to keep track of :( | 04:28 |
| Jbwncster | I wish tillis would go away | 04:29 |
| Jbwncster | And whomever replaces burr better be a democrat | 04:29 |
| himesama | is helms gone | 04:32 |
| Jbwncster | Long gone | 04:33 |
| LjL | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z38NWVXky2Q | 04:46 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.youtube.com: Israeli health chief explains decision to begin COVID-19 booster shots - YouTube | 04:46 |
| twomoon | where u at Jbwncster | 04:48 |
| Jbwncster | North Carolina | 04:49 |
| twomoon | it seems states are becoming more extreme | 04:49 |
| LjL | some interesting information towards the end of that | 04:51 |
| lastshell | kind of late but you can validate your kn95 if you fill with water and wait how long takes to leak | 05:42 |
| lastshell | there are other steps to validate at home, but I forgot the other steps | 05:43 |
| twomoon | does yours stop cig smoke? | 05:45 |
| twomoon | ljl 80% of vaccinated folks in israel who have become confirmed positive cases don't have any contacts that have been confirmed positive cases | 06:37 |
| twomoon | i don't know what to make of that | 06:37 |
| himesama | is that partiularly uncommon? | 06:52 |
| himesama | i was refering to testing the seal, not the filter. but indeed it is good to test filters too if you don't ruin them by testing. --- 20:42 <lastshell> kind of late but you can validate your kn95 if you fill with water and wait how long takes to leak | 06:54 |
| himesama | i do wonder if, say, touching the pleats on the inside of a canister is ok. | 06:54 |
| himesama | seal against you, as in the fit | 06:55 |
| Juerd | lastshell: If your kn95 doesn't leak water, that proves it's water tight. Nothing more or less, sorry. | 07:00 |
| Juerd | lastshell: There are masks that actually do filter particulates but let water through (even if they are uncommon), so it doesn't mean anything either way. | 07:01 |
| Juerd | lastshell: The outside should be hydrophobic though. Drops of water should run of in beads, leaving little if anything behind. And you can test whether the inner layer is meltblown as it should be by cutting the mask open and separating the layers, and then using the inner layer to try to lift up some tiny pieces of paper (just regular printer paper that you tore to ~ 7x7 mm bits). The static | 07:04 |
| Juerd | charge should be able to lift pieces of paper. The inner layer should also statically stick to most tft screens. | 07:04 |
| Juerd | If it does that still doesn't validate the mask's filtration, but it does make it more likely to have at least some filtration. | 07:04 |
| Juerd | There is no way without proper measuring equipment, to verify that a filter medium actually does what it should. | 07:05 |
| himesama | it would seem a huge market to create a filter for the exhaust for half faceplates, and for upgrading the valves in them | 07:16 |
| himesama | i wonder how good the full faceplates are wrt fogging glasses etc. | 07:16 |
| himesama | i also wonder whether any filter material withstands sustained high heat like 115f temperatures (espeially n95 masks and p100 cartridges for half-faceplate) | 07:26 |
| -Bridgestorm- 🌒 Earthquake! 5.9 Mb tremor, registered by alomax,scevent, occurred 12 minutes ago (09:50:13 UTC), with a crescent moon, Tonga Islands Region (-22.43, -174.09) likely felt 260 km away (in Nukuʻalofa…) by 36000 people (quakesearch.geonet.org.nz) | 12:02 | |
| purplesail[m] | %cases world | 12:35 |
| Brainstorm | purplesail[m]: Sorry, world not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 12:35 |
| purplesail[m] | * %cases Dortmund | 12:36 |
| purplesail[m] | %cases Dortmund | 12:36 |
| Brainstorm | purplesail[m]: Sorry, Dortmund not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 12:36 |
| purplesail[m] | %cases Berlin | 12:36 |
| Brainstorm | purplesail[m]: Berlin, Germany has had 186394 confirmed cases (5.4% of all people) and 3588 deaths (1.9% of cases) as of 4 hours ago. +614 cases since 7 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Berlin | 12:36 |
| Brainstorm | purplesail[m]: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Berlin, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 12:37 |
| purplesail[m] | !London | 12:40 |
| purplesail[m] | !cases London | 12:40 |
| purplesail[m] | %cases London | 12:40 |
| Brainstorm | purplesail[m]: Sorry, London not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 12:40 |
| de-facto | %cases UK | 12:41 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: United Kingdom has had 6.2 million confirmed cases (9.4% of all people) and 130959 deaths (2.1% of cases) as of 4 hours ago. 255.4 million tests were done (2.4% positive). 47.2 million were vaccinated (71.1%). +14752 cases, +124 deaths since 7 hours ago. See https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ | 12:41 |
| Jbwncster | %cases USA | 12:43 |
| Brainstorm | Jbwncster: United States has had 37.0 million confirmed cases (11.2% of all people) and 629684 deaths (1.7% of cases) as of 4 hours ago. 553.9 million tests were done (6.7% positive). 197.1 million were vaccinated (59.8%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20States | 12:43 |
| Brainstorm | Jbwncster: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about United States, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 12:43 |
| IndoAnon | %cases jakarta | 12:45 |
| Brainstorm | IndoAnon: Jakarta, Indonesia has had 25297 confirmed cases (0.2% of all people) and 924 deaths (3.7% of cases) as of 12 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Jakarta | 12:45 |
| Brainstorm | IndoAnon: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Jakarta, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 12:45 |
| Jbwncster | %cases Kiribati | 12:46 |
| Brainstorm | Jbwncster: Kiribati has had 2 confirmed cases (0.0% of all people) and 0 deaths (0.0% of cases) as of 12 hours ago. 13970 were vaccinated (11.6%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Kiribati | 12:46 |
| Brainstorm | Jbwncster: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Kiribati, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 12:46 |
| Jbwncster | %cases Mongolia | 12:46 |
| Brainstorm | Jbwncster: Mongolia has had 181291 confirmed cases (5.5% of all people) and 872 deaths (0.5% of cases) as of 4 hours ago. 3.4 million tests were done (5.3% positive). 2.2 million were vaccinated (67.0%). +467 cases since 7 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Mongolia | 12:46 |
| Brainstorm | Jbwncster: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Mongolia, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 12:46 |
| IndoAnon | %tell LjL https://corona.jakarta.go.id/en/data-pemantauan | 12:48 |
| Brainstorm | IndoAnon, I'll pass LjL your message when they are around. | 12:48 |
| -Bridgestorm- ⭕ Temblor! Tranbleman tè! Séisme! Earthquake! 6.6 Mi tremor, registered by PT,alomax, with 2 reports, 2 early, occurred 13 minutes ago (12:29:08 UTC), during daytime, Petit Trou de Nippes, Haiti (18.52, -73.52) ± 6 km, ↓9 km likely felt 440 km away (in Aquin, L'Anse-à-Veau, Les Cayes, Miragoâne, Jérémie…) by 522000 people (earthquake.usgs.gov) | 14:42 | |
| -Bridgestorm- ⭕ Tranbleman tè? Séisme? Earthquake? M7- estimated tremor, registered by GEOFON, possibly occurred 19 minutes ago (12:49:00 UTC), during daytime, Haiti Region (18.69, -73.54), ↓10 km likely felt 400 km away (in L'Anse-à-Veau, Aquin, Jérémie, Miragoâne, Les Cayes…) by 600100 people (Twitter) | 15:08 | |
| -Bridgestorm- 🏠 Tranbleman tè! Séisme! Earthquake! 5.7 Mb tremor, registered by GEOFON,US, occurred 23 minutes ago (12:49:34 UTC), during daytime, Haiti Region (18.48, -73.78) ± 20 km, ↓10 km likely felt 240 km away (in Jérémie, Les Cayes, Aquin, L'Anse-à-Veau, Miragoâne…) by 4.1 million people (service.iris.edu) | 15:12 | |
| lastshell | https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/vaccinated-las-vegas-flight-attendant-dies-from-covid-mother-says-2419704/amp/ | 15:53 |
| lastshell | now vaccinated people are dying | 15:53 |
| purplesail[m] | %cases ukraine | 15:55 |
| Brainstorm | purplesail[m]: Ukraine has had 2.3 million confirmed cases (5.5% of all people) and 54651 deaths (2.4% of cases) as of 8 hours ago. 11.7 million tests were done (19.8% positive). 4.6 million were vaccinated (11.1%). +1571 cases, +54 deaths since 7 hours ago. See https://covid19.rnbo.gov.ua/ | 15:55 |
| de-facto | well lastshell how many of them though? and how does that compare to non-vaccinated exposed to same thread levels (e.g. similar age group, variant, timeslot, contamination type etc) | 15:57 |
| de-facto | a single anecdotal case does not say much, we would need statistics to derive anything other than "shit happens" from it | 15:58 |
| de-facto | it could be early signs of problem, yeah, but it also could just be that this particular individual was unlucky for some reason | 15:59 |
| dTal | maybe it was one of those deaths falsely recorded as covid that I've been hearing so much about from the denier camp | 16:00 |
| lastshell | the person who die was 36, black and in his picture looks healthy | 16:02 |
| lastshell | scary | 16:02 |
| de-facto | its all about probabilities, hence the necessity for more numbers in order to derive a statements that represents circumstances in majorities | 16:03 |
| lastshell | where do they track those numbers | 16:03 |
| de-facto | i assume CDC does, wouldnt it be their responsibility? | 16:03 |
| lastshell | I also saw this article but goes above my comprehension https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext | 16:03 |
| lastshell | I'm just scare becasue I eat indoors yesterday | 16:06 |
| de-facto | hmmm but for now both breakthrough and hospitalization are lowered in fully vaccinated challenged with delta, arent they? | 16:09 |
| lastshell | I think so, delta is the problem | 16:10 |
| de-facto | and also humoral immune reaction is only one branch, there also is cellular immunity, depending on much smaller fractions of antigen, hence may recognize also cells blooming with mutants | 16:13 |
| lastshell | sorry I'm not well educated in the realm of that science | 16:13 |
| lastshell | so I was not able to understand | 16:13 |
| lastshell | it means some people can get it and others no ? | 16:14 |
| lastshell | or if you have some docs/ links I can start reading (I'm a self learner) | 16:15 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.01949/full <-- maybe that one expains some details | 16:25 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.frontiersin.org: Frontiers | Overview of Immune Response During SARS-CoV-2 Infection: Lessons From the Past | Immunology | 16:25 |
| de-facto | over a year old though | 16:26 |
| de-facto | many other papers exist about that topic | 16:26 |
| lastshell | thank you | 16:36 |
| lunatunes | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv21xbWghvk | 19:04 |
| lunatunes | Live stream of Aaron Collins doing Mask filtration tests | 19:04 |
| lunatunes | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M0mdNLpTWEGcluK6hh5LjjcFixwmOG853Ff45d3O-L0/edit#gid=1976839763 | 19:04 |
| lunatunes | His google spreadsheet of all his data | 19:05 |
| lastshell | lunatunes thank you very good spreadsheet | 19:17 |
| lunatunes | lastshell: you're welcome. Not saying his tests are on the level of professionals but they do seem pretty good. | 19:23 |
| lunatunes | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i06OAItoOwIUaMjElr8mhh0Rw-it6WL-ODIQMZUOQxE/edit#gid=0 | 19:32 |
| lunatunes | His spreed sheet of kid masks | 19:32 |
| lunatunes | spread* | 19:32 |
| Julius__ | Hi guys | 20:09 |
| Julius__ | Do I get banned for thinking that Covid-19 does not exist? | 20:10 |
| ublx | probably | 20:11 |
| ublx | unless you keep it to yourself, then it might take us a while to notice | 20:11 |
| Julius__ | Do people in here even know what Covid-19 is? | 20:11 |
| lunatunes | I find it odd how some search for channels like this just to...argue lol | 20:13 |
| LjL | Julius is an old acquaintance | 20:15 |
| LjL | QED, just banned him elsewhere | 20:23 |
| lunatunes | ah I see. | 20:26 |
| LjL | i don't understand a thing this Collins guy says :P | 20:30 |
| LjL | but the spreadsheet is probably more usable than endless live streams | 20:30 |
| LjL | %links aaron collins | 20:37 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eE2BERAvRzs28kG87ft3a27FS9-gHvdC (Mask testing data by Aaron Collins), a list of single-use respirators (N95, KF94, KN95, FFP2 masks) for adults and children with measurements of filtration efficacy, pressure drop (measured by an amateur, so not to be taken as professional measurements) and other characteristics like size and strap types | 20:37 |
| de-facto | Netherlands 2021-08-14 https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/intensive-care-opnames daily 2,349 cases, 63 hospital admissions, ~13 ICU admissions (total 198), 6 deaths, 98,3% Delta | 20:44 |
| de-facto | Reproduction ~ 0.87 | 20:45 |
| lunatunes | LjL: well the live stream is mainly just him testing the masks right now. He wasn't really answering questions He was just showing how he does the tests. | 20:45 |
| de-facto | https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/reproductiegetal | 20:45 |
| lunatunes | But yeah the spreadsheets give way more information. | 20:45 |
| LjL | lunatunes, but his videos also seem to mostly be saved live streams. it would be interesting if he has *shorter* feature videos about individual good masks, or comparisons, and so | 20:48 |
| LjL | but i guess the spreadsheet does that, just less multimediatically | 20:48 |
| lunatunes | Yeah his videos are really long. But you would have to search a bit to find what you're looking for. He does have the comparison videos though they're just like from 6 to 4 months back. | 20:49 |
| lunatunes | He will be posting a new comparison video on Monday though about the kid masks | 20:49 |
| LjL | from a cursory glance it seems he may sort of like some KF94 masks | 20:51 |
| LjL | which matches the impression i was getting | 20:51 |
| LjL | i mean unsurprisingly he recommends 3M Aura as top choice | 20:52 |
| LjL | but apart from that, which is expensive, some KF94 has the same "bifold" shape and look interesting | 20:52 |
| Arsanerit | 3m Aura is good but the straps are por imho | 21:01 |
| Arsanerit | How did NL get R down to below 1? | 21:01 |
| LjL | i agree, bad straps | 21:05 |
| twomoon | is anyone still watching Doc Campbell's videos? | 22:48 |
| twomoon | i think he needs to figure out how to make his videos shorter | 22:48 |
| twomoon | i'm falling asleep to his videos | 22:49 |
| LjL | yeah, i'm not | 22:52 |
| LjL | i have a couple of videos queued from a doctor who's less sleep-inducing :P | 22:52 |
| LjL | "Medlife Crisis", although initially he didn't make videos about COVID, he made some eventually | 22:52 |
| leannotmean | since i started to look for some pediatric sars2 stuff, i thought i might paste some of them here with the same trouble | 23:50 |
| leannotmean | .title https://mobile.twitter.com/GYamey/status/1425233269923123200 | 23:50 |
| Brainstorm | leannotmean: From mobile.twitter.com: error parsing title ('NoneType' object has no attribute 'string') | 23:50 |
| leannotmean | .title https://mobile.twitter.com/DataDrivenMD/status/1425291619683627016 check the whole thread | 23:51 |
| Brainstorm | leannotmean: From mobile.twitter.com: error parsing title ('NoneType' object has no attribute 'string') | 23:51 |
| leannotmean | god damn it! | 23:51 |
| LjL | :( | 23:51 |
| LjL | oh it's because you're linking from mobile.twitter.com | 23:52 |
| leannotmean | its the curse when i accidentally forgot to use 12+1 first | 23:52 |
| leannotmean | .title https://twitter.com/DataDrivenMD/status/1425291619683627016 check the whole thread | 23:52 |
| Brainstorm | leannotmean: From twitter.com: Jorge A. Caballero, MD (@DataDrivenMD): "2/ Since the pandemic began, we’ve never had a greater share of #COVID19 hospitalizations that are children" | nitter | 23:52 |
| leannotmean | .title https://twitter.com/GYamey/status/1425233269923123200 | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | leannotmean: From twitter.com: Prof. Gavin Yamey MD MPH (@GYamey): "We have a surge in pediatric Covid hospitalizations. My colleagues have never seen anything like it. They’ve never seen this many sick kids with Covid on ICUs. [...] | 23:53 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/26/covid-young-people-england-virus-spread-uk | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.theguardian.com: Will Covid become a disease of the young? The world is watching England to find out | Devi Sridhar | The Guardian | 23:53 |
| nixonix | lung docs instructions for students how to properly put on ffp mask https://unitube.it.helsinki.fi/unitube/embed.html?id=ecd966ae-4727-438e-bf38-a844d408bb31 | 23:56 |
| LjL | i don't know if i should insist on this issue of COVID in children with someone who has children... they're worried but i'm not sure they can decide to pull them out of school without huge repercussions. so if they cannot really do much, then linking these things to them will just make them worry a lot with nothing gained. | 23:56 |
| nixonix | i dont know what to say. here most parents havent taken their kids out of schools when they have been open and not remoting, but the situation now is different, cases are as high as the peak last winter, and its more dangerous variant | 23:59 |
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