| nixonix | denmark removing all the restrictions sep 10th, including their vaccine passports (for events and stuff, not sure if they use it for bars). thinking their awesome vaccine coverage will be enough | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ublx | thx | 00:01 |
| nixonix | they succeeded to buy lot of pizer from somewhere, besides eu deal | 00:01 |
| ublx | how long until we can pop down to the local pharmacy and have an updated vaccine printed for us there and then? | 00:02 |
| ublx | asking for a friend | 00:02 |
| LjL | ublx, i hope your friend will be dead long after we are | 00:03 |
| ublx | hmm? | 00:03 |
| nixonix | maybe with AV-COVID-19 they could use the spike variant you want, if willing to pay enough | 00:04 |
| LjL | ublx, iow: not any time soon | 00:04 |
| nixonix | i guess its good that somebody tries it. just letting it rip freely. as a warning example to others | 00:06 |
| LjL | ublx, also the spectre of ADE is back, in case you missed it (although in a paper immediately widely criticized) | 00:08 |
| ublx | hmm i've been seeing mutterings of ADE here and there | 00:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Barbados: +48 cases (now 4789) since 18 hours ago — Bosnia and Herz.: +617 cases (now 212306), +15 deaths (now 9785), +3131 tests (now 1.1 million) since a day ago | 00:08 |
| LjL | ublx, i think you can avoid it if you eat some horse deworming paste instead of getting a vaccine | 00:10 |
| ublx | hah | 00:10 |
| nixonix | for a variant with mutations like in that japanese paper to take over previous variants, it would need to be more transmissive. do it gain advantage in upper respiratory cells? if not, they are useless for it | 00:10 |
| twomoon | lol | 00:11 |
| nixonix | mutations wont be selected just because they would be a bitch to host | 00:11 |
| twomoon | if ivermectin were called deworming paste i think we wouldn't see so many turkeys taking it | 00:11 |
| twomoon | we need more honest drug names | 00:11 |
| twomoon | i thought nix just said the specter of ADE isn't really there | 00:12 |
| LjL | the joke is because people are literally taking ivermectin-based paste made for horses, with horse pictures on the box | 00:13 |
| twomoon | LOL really | 00:13 |
| LjL | yesreally | 00:13 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050070243192839 | 00:14 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: U.S. FDA (@US_FDA): "You are not a horse. You are not a cow. Seriously, y'all. Stop it. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19" | [...] | 00:14 |
| LjL | was about to paste that from the logs | 00:14 |
| LjL | but also that other thread where someone subscribed to a facebook group of theirs | 00:15 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/1412635807702142982 | 00:16 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Health Nerd (@GidMK): "Another day, another systematic review and meta-analysis of the same ivermectin research published This one is positive. I don't think it should be 1/n" | 42l - nitter | 00:16 |
| twomoon | well ivermectic does have a mild antiviral effect like many other antiparasitics | 00:18 |
| LjL | twomoon, https://twitter.com/RyanEGraney/status/1430856835997868032 | 00:18 |
| twomoon | but it also comes with some major cons | 00:18 |
| twomoon | ivermectic has more potential cons than a vaccine | 00:18 |
| twomoon | without the major pros | 00:18 |
| nixonix | yeah, they havent found ADE, which doesnt mean necessarily that there is none of it, with any variants, but its probably not a big issue. currently anyway | 00:19 |
| LjL | currently, sure | 00:19 |
| twomoon | and taking any formulation/dosage for an animal much bigger than a human is just dumb | 00:19 |
| nixonix | according to derek lowe that concentration for ivermectin needed to have some antiviral effects seen in cell culture, is around 100k too high for human use | 00:20 |
| twomoon | I mean, just diarrhea is already a worse potential side effect than the typical side effect of a vaccine | 00:20 |
| twomoon | diarrhea can literally kill you by dehydration on a hot day | 00:20 |
| ublx | this been posted yet? https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6558/eabd9149 | 00:24 |
| ublx | seems like a nice roundup of the aerosol question so far | 00:25 |
| ublx | "Airborne transmission of respiratory viruses" | 00:25 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/93903 | 00:32 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medpagetoday.com: Full-Dose Heparin Benefit in Certain COVID-19 Patients Confirmed | MedPage Today | 00:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +6 deaths (now 10965) since 8 hours ago | 00:33 |
| nixonix | tldr: used before critical | 00:33 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796 | 00:40 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.bbc.com: Lisa Shaw: Presenter's death due to complications of Covid vaccine - BBC News | 00:40 |
| nixonix | The clots are considered extremely rare - there have been 417 reported cases and 72 deaths - after 24.8 million first doses and 23.9 million second doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK | 00:41 |
| nixonix | when that case was in brain, i think the numbers mean CVST (while not sure) | 00:41 |
| nixonix | something like 80% of (whatever the severe cases they count, CVST or something else too?) were after the 1st dose. but 2nd az doses were taken less in many countries, but instead they got mrna as a 2nd | 00:43 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1050173821000967 | 00:46 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.sciencedirect.com: The roles of platelets in COVID-19-associated coagulopathy and vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia - ScienceDirect | 00:46 |
| nixonix | and remember that earlier link that claimed no correlation with anti-pf4-antibodies. ok here again https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2111305 | 00:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: Delta Variant Doubles Hospitalizations Compared to Alpha: A study from the United Kingdom shows the newer variant led to an increase in severe infections in a mostly unvaccinated population. → https://is.gd/X3OJlL | 00:48 |
| nixonix | here some geek like us commanting it: | 00:54 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/dronico/status/1431159861295865857 | 00:54 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Alejandro (@dronico): "The roles of platelets in COVID-19-associated coagulopathy and vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia [...] | 00:54 |
| nixonix | commenting | 00:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: This might help explain why US hospitalizations are > 100,000 in the Delta wave relative to the 3rd wave when there were no vaccinations. And the higher % of children who are getting hospitalized.The Delta high viral load/dose may be the culprit → https://is.gd/klg09R | 01:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ivory Coast: +267 cases (now 54566), +1 deaths (now 416) since 21 hours ago — Bahamas: +223 cases (now 17940), +11 deaths (now 354), +760 tests (now 132232) since a day ago — Fiji: +205 cases (now 45373), +11 deaths (now 479), +1504 tests (now 369712) since a day ago | 01:35 |
| nixonix | so they should rename this variant as triple-trouble (comparing to old 614G variants) | 01:43 |
| nixonix | come on pointdexter, it wasnt that bad | 01:43 |
| ublx | lol | 01:46 |
| nixonix | ireland planning to lift all the restrictions when 90% over 16 yo vaccinated (according to tweeters, that would be <70% of population. ""Quite a high bar", says one source, and it could be into October before we're there. | 01:51 |
| nixonix | triple was ref to the link above: delta vs alpha "admitted to hospital within 14 days after the specimen was taken (adjusted hazard ratio [HR] 2·26 [95% CI 1·32–3·89]) | 01:53 |
| nixonix | and alpha vs 614G around 1.5 | 01:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Biden says China withholding information on COVID origin → https://is.gd/1xP4gl | 01:56 |
| nixonix | theres a study maybe offering reasons for lc breathing difficulties, studying patients 3-6 months after recovering. they have persistent amnormalities in proteome of airway and elevated tissue-resident killer t-cells (cd8), but not in blood | 02:29 |
| nixonix | we examine the airway and circulating landscape of patients previously hospitalized with COVID19, finding they possess a distinct proteome and immunological profile in their airways, but not peripheral blood, 3 to 6 months post recovery from acute infection. | 02:29 |
| nixonix | While there is substantial heterogeneity between patients, common upregulated signals include proteins associated with ongoing cell death, epithelial damage and tissue repair; features that correlate with the presence of increased numbers of activated tissue resident CD8 T cells within the airways | 02:29 |
| nixonix | so those t-cells continue to make damage, while at the same time probably offering protection from reinfection... | 02:30 |
| nixonix | which means, did we just find the reason why natural infection provides longer lasting protection? | 02:31 |
| nixonix | These markers of ongoing damage and repair tightly correlate with the frequency of T cells, especially CD8 TRM in the airways. In mouse models of severe acute respiratory virus infection CD8 T cells have long been known to act as a double-edged sword. Although the cytotoxic molecules and cytokines they release are essential for clearing virus, they | 02:31 |
| nixonix | can also cause tissue damage and immune pathology | 02:31 |
| nixonix | "data shown here for SARS-CoV-2 may provide a potential insight, supporting the concept that sustained activation of CD8 TRM in the airways, long after recovery from acute disease, may contribute to ongoing immune pathology through sustained damage to the respiratory epithelium | 02:32 |
| p0indexter | enter anti-inflamatory ? | 02:32 |
| nixonix | its a bit heavy reading, including stuff about acute infection, but here are the essential parts about post-covid | 02:33 |
| nixonix | idk if those would help for t-cell infiltration | 02:33 |
| p0indexter | nixonix: ty | 02:33 |
| p0indexter | ok | 02:33 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.10.21261834v1.full | 02:34 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Immuno-proteomic profiling reveals abundant airway CD8 T cells and ongoing epithelial injury in prolonged post-COVD19 respiratory disease | medRxiv | 02:34 |
| nixonix | "The mechanism behind the increased number of CD8 TRM in the airways is unclear, although another study has also reported detecting virus specific CD8 T cells in lung tissue up to a year post-infection | 02:34 |
| nixonix | "antigen depots in SARS-CoV-2 could drive ongoing cytotoxic activity and maintenance of CD8 TRM. Secondly, the persistence of lung resident TRM is also reliant on the availability of local T cell survival signals such as IL-7 (Szabo et al., 2019) and the CXCR3 | 02:34 |
| nixonix | cd8 trm is tissue-resident memory t-cells | 02:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +3512 cases (now 1.5 million), +16 deaths (now 26906) since 21 hours ago — Ukraine: +1677 cases (now 2.3 million), +54 deaths (now 55162) since 21 hours ago — France: +10061 cases (now 6.7 million), +117 deaths (now 114130) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +2170 cases (now 1.9 million), +4 deaths (now 18153) since 21 hours ago | 02:37 |
| nixonix | cells are moved with chemokines, so apparently some chemokines that lure those t-cells are produced locally in epithelia. why they keep doing it, no idea. and would that be possible to stop somehow, idk | 02:38 |
| nixonix | maybe those IL-7 and CXCR3 that are mentioned above | 02:40 |
| nixonix | maybe some ME/CFS connection there: | 02:49 |
| nixonix | CD8+ T cells from people with ME/CFS showed a decrease in energy production after activation. Notably, they had changes in their mitochondria—the structures that produce most of the cell’s energy. | 02:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-cell-metabolism-altered-me-cfs | 02:49 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nih.gov: Immune cell metabolism altered in ME/CFS | National Institutes of Health (NIH) | 02:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Nurse shortages in California reaching crisis point: an ICU nurse in Bakersfield, said of the dozens of COVID-19 patients she has treated since the pandemic began, only three have survived. → https://is.gd/P8usvU | 02:52 |
| nixonix | pay them more | 02:55 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01755-4/fulltext | 03:01 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.thelancet.com: 1-year outcomes in hospital survivors with COVID-19: a longitudinal cohort study - The Lancet | 03:01 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/new-zealand-police-break-up-one-person-anti-lockdown-protest-in-auckland | 03:03 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.theguardian.com: New Zealand police break up one-person anti-lockdown protest in Auckland | New Zealand | The Guardian | 03:03 |
| nixonix | sorry, no good pics. guardian is no daily mail | 03:03 |
| p0indexter | what no topless pictures of protestors? | 03:17 |
| p0indexter | im cancelling | 03:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: Good summary of the dire situation at many FL, LA hospitals and how patients are often sicker, more in ICU, longer stays and the shift to younger patients than previous waves https://www.ft.com/content/02924ab7-fbe6-4025-a112-ee9657c5ddcd by @_PeterWells @FT → https://is.gd/L8DK97 | 03:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Egypt: +234 cases (now 287393), +5 deaths (now 16706) since a day ago — Suriname: +234 cases (now 28462), +2 deaths (now 709) since 22 hours ago | 03:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Delta is running circles around our weak defense.Pushing towards 200,000 new cases and over 1,800 deaths today → https://is.gd/PO5mYA | 04:09 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: 1-year outcomes in hospital survivors with COVID-19: a longitudinal cohort study ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/QW3IK4M6 ) | 04:23 | |
| surazal | https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/natural-immunity-for-the-win | 04:40 |
| archpc | I pray this eviction moratorium is upheld | 04:46 |
| lastshell | how you doing archpc ? | 04:49 |
| archpc | Kinda better, landlord is being a piece of shit tho | 04:50 |
| archpc | I can’t catch a break :| | 04:51 |
| lastshell | good that you are better | 04:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: L.A. County reports COVID-19 outbreaks involving youth cheerleaders, dance squads: Between July 30 and Aug. 20, there were nine outbreaks among high school cheerleading and dance teams involving 131 students and 100 staff members → https://is.gd/un4gW3 | 04:55 |
| jbwncster | archpc: it’s not upheld | 05:07 |
| jbwncster | The Supreme Court struck it down | 05:07 |
| jbwncster | Time to scramble | 05:09 |
| archpc | Hell yea | 05:52 |
| * archpc packs his backpack and sells his stuff | 05:52 | |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +2334 cases (now 1.2 million), +6 deaths (now 25360), +43097 tests (now 18.5 million) since 23 hours ago | 06:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 797: COVID-19 clinical update #77 with Dr. Daniel Griffin: In COVID-19 clinical update #77, Daniel Griffin discusses children becoming increasingly infected, virological characteristics of infections in vaccinated health care workers, transmission dynamics among close contacts, licensing of Pfizer mRNA vaccine, cost [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/9X7qel | 06:12 |
| archpc | Like, we’re not being “evicted”, but our rent magically doubled :| | 06:15 |
| jbwncster | That’s illegal | 06:16 |
| archpc | Not really, it’s shitty, but it’s an oral lease, nothing was signed | 06:17 |
| jbwncster | Damn | 06:17 |
| jbwncster | You need papers | 06:17 |
| archpc | Yeah exactly :| | 06:17 |
| jbwncster | Ask for some | 06:17 |
| archpc | Well, we tried getting a letter from him so we can get rental assistance, but he declined, it’s confusing how he wants *our* money only and would rather force us out then get state assistance | 06:19 |
| jbwncster | Sue him | 06:25 |
| jbwncster | For not taking Assistan | 06:26 |
| jbwncster | Assistance | 06:26 |
| archpc | I’m not even sure that’s a thing | 06:27 |
| archpc | Apparently, landlords don’t have to accept rental assistance due to it inviting some “regulations” | 06:35 |
| jbwncster | That’s bullshit | 06:37 |
| jbwncster | They can’t pay their mortgage without it | 06:37 |
| jbwncster | Or other bills | 06:38 |
| * archpc shrugs | 06:39 | |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US intelligence still divided on origins of coronavirus → https://is.gd/0ikBcw | 06:56 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Peru: +1116 cases (now 2.1 million), +51 deaths (now 198115), +48089 tests (now 16.6 million) since 23 hours ago | 07:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: U.S. intelligence community says cannot solve COVID mystery without China → https://is.gd/Iboznu | 07:17 |
| p0indexter | translation....it leads to china but u.s.intel wont officially say so | 07:35 |
| jbwncster | Not the labs | 07:35 |
| jbwncster | It was from an animal | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Scotland, United Kingdom: +6818 cases (now 407660), +4 deaths (now 8103) since 23 hours ago — New York, United States: +6381 cases (now 2.3 million), +16 deaths (now 54152) since 23 hours ago — Aichi, Japan: +2347 cases (now 77384), +1 deaths (now 1034) since 23 hours ago — Maryland, United States: +1373 cases (now 492547), +4 deaths (now 9971) since 23 hours ago | 07:36 |
| archpc | That damn bat.. | 07:36 |
| archpc | https://files.catbox.moe/3i5qd8.jpeg | 07:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: China says U.S. report on COVID origins ‘not scientifically credible’ → https://is.gd/cAfKqI | 07:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: Delta variant poses Twice the Risk of hospitalisation compared to Alpha variant, study finds → https://is.gd/HfuyTp | 08:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New Zealand Covid update: 82 new cases as outbreak worsens despite nationwide lockdown → https://is.gd/sQoEvG | 08:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Venezuela: +1376 cases (now 331112), +15 deaths (now 3970) since a day ago — India: +46759 cases (now 32.6 million), +236 deaths (now 436844) since 15 hours ago — Singapore: +122 cases (now 67050), +3 deaths (now 55) since a day ago | 08:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: 80% vaccinated, Denmark says will lower Covid-19 threat from September 10 → https://is.gd/CTeRAU | 09:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Nepal allows late-stage trials for Chinese mRNA vaccine candidate – Xinhua → https://is.gd/ogTyEP | 10:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Antibody found that neutralizes all known strains of COVID-19. → https://is.gd/hf40xm | 10:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kerala, India: +32801 cases (now 3.9 million), +179 deaths (now 20313) since 23 hours ago — Punjab, Pakistan: +1718 cases (now 388296), +53 deaths (now 11759) since a day ago — Jammu and Kashmir, India: +166 cases (now 324813), +1 deaths (now 4405) since 23 hours ago | 10:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Singapore to tighten border measures for travellers from New Zealand after rise in COVID-19 cases → https://is.gd/I0mRGo | 10:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Two die in Japan after shots from suspended Moderna vaccines: Japan government → https://is.gd/Bm1lvX | 10:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Philippines: +19239 cases (now 1.9 million), +167 deaths (now 33008) since a day ago — Armenia: +692 cases (now 240953), +16 deaths (now 4812) since a day ago — Estonia: +322 cases (now 141014), +4686 tests (now 1.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 11:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: U.S. intelligence agencies split on Covid-19 origins, offer no high-confidence conclusions in new report → https://is.gd/RG3EO6 | 11:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: Coronavirus Delta variant doubles risk of hospitalization: Study → https://is.gd/aSZGA0 | 12:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Japan: +32436 cases (now 1.4 million), +43 deaths (now 15851), +176731 tests (now 21.4 million) since 9 hours ago — Russia: +19492 cases (now 6.9 million), +799 deaths (now 180840), +500000 tests (now 177.6 million) since a day ago — Poland: +289 cases (now 2.9 million), +5 deaths (now 75340) since a day ago [... want %more?] | 12:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: Warning: Anti-vaxxers are posting leaflets through doors! → https://is.gd/H2JUdW | 12:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Latvia: +256 cases (now 142123) since 21 hours ago | 12:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Australia logs record COVID-19 cases, driven by New South Wales → https://is.gd/Dxii8D | 12:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Two die in Japan after shots from suspended Moderna vaccines - Japan govt → https://is.gd/YSBDGi | 13:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +22597 cases (now 1.7 million), +252 deaths (now 15802), +141871 vaccines (now 19.1 million) since a day ago — UAE: +998 cases (now 715394), +1 deaths (now 2036), +309312 tests (now 73.8 million) since 23 hours ago — United States: +199491 cases (now 39.1 million), +1712 deaths (now 645465), +513516 vaccines (now 203.5 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 13:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: Vaccine mandates work, especially when they’re done right → https://is.gd/AI2VBX | 13:43 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Madagascar: +1 cases (now 42858), +578 tests (now 241052) since 23 hours ago | 14:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: India administers record 10 million vaccine doses in a day → https://is.gd/wqxWAi | 14:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Romania: +1015 cases (now 1.1 million), +19 deaths (now 34509), +9492 vaccines (now 5.2 million) since a day ago — Nepal: +1516 cases (now 758008), +27 deaths (now 10690) since a day ago | 14:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Destination of the week: Asian tourism sees ups, downs in 2nd year of pandemic → https://is.gd/fEQGfo | 15:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Qatar: +183 cases (now 232187), +4997 tests (now 2.5 million) since 22 hours ago — Denmark: +1261 cases (now 343209), +200260 tests (now 80.7 million) since 22 hours ago | 15:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Our covid timesby @Patbagley and @MatttDavies → https://is.gd/NwnbRr | 15:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Vietnam: +12103 cases (now 422469), +352 deaths (now 10405) since 23 hours ago — Azerbaijan: +4241 cases (now 413986), +43 deaths (now 5512), +18871 tests (now 4.4 million) since 20 hours ago — Germany: +8289 cases (now 3.9 million) since 21 hours ago — Zambia: +189 cases (now 205893), +4 deaths (now 3591), +6292 tests (now 2.3 million) since a day ago | 15:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iraq: +5369 cases (now 1.9 million), +73 deaths (now 20632), +29983 tests (now 14.2 million) since a day ago — Serbia: +2314 cases (now 755895), +9 deaths (now 7257), +12506 tests (now 5.0 million) since 23 hours ago | 16:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: First mover disadvantageWaning immunity, 3 week dose-spacing, insufficient population vaccinated, and other factors contributing to this unexpected outcome. → https://is.gd/QmEpAM | 16:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: 2 Reported Deaths After Second Doses of Suspended Moderna Vaccine Supply: The deaths occurred this month in Japan, and investigations into the deaths and the vaccine batches are ongoing. → https://is.gd/pGAtnJ | 16:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +3436 cases (now 1.5 million), +80 deaths (now 25926) since 22 hours ago — New Zealand: +83 cases (now 3262) since 23 hours ago — Comoros: +7 cases (now 4062) since 2 days ago | 16:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: An important new study from Qatar on waning of the Pfizer vaccine's protection against symptomatic infection at 6 months to <50%, with preserved effectiveness vs hospitalization, adds to a growing body of consistent evidence for this dichotomy https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.25.21262584v1 → https://is.gd/mOEw97 | 16:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): Clinical adaptation during the COVID-19 pandemic: Instructive lessons for the climate crisis. → https://is.gd/xC3jNS | 17:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +6858 cases (now 4.5 million), +54 deaths (now 129056), +293464 tests (now 83.4 million) since 23 hours ago — Cuba: +6850 cases (now 634161), +83 deaths (now 5067), +53675 tests (now 7.8 million) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +21156 cases (now 6.7 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 18:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Monsoon diseases: Tips to protect yourself during Covid-19 → https://is.gd/ubZSnZ | 18:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Chile: +607 cases (now 1.6 million), +34 deaths (now 36841), +57697 tests (now 20.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Moldova: +193 cases (now 266784), +3 deaths (now 6390), +3732 tests (now 1.6 million) since 21 hours ago — Dominican Rep.: +10 cases (now 349263), +3389 tests (now 1.9 million) since a day ago | 18:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Vaccines have their limit: people.https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/28/vaccines-can-only-do-so-much-rest-is-up-people/by @washingtonpost ed board → https://is.gd/aKcYxu | 18:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Jamaica: +835 cases (now 65734), +18 deaths (now 1483), +4072 tests (now 542419) since 22 hours ago | 20:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Over 50,000 COVID deaths in Russia last month: statistics agency → https://is.gd/QzwwNU | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Florida became the epicenter of the US Delta wave, with cases, hospitalizations and deaths that all towered above its 3rd wave when there were no vaccinations. Why?https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/28/us/florida-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccines-variant.html by @PatriciaMazzei @benjmueller @gebeloffnyt → https://is.gd/gLIKXW | 20:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +10173 cases (now 2.8 million), +274 deaths (now 81461), +56209 tests (now 16.3 million) since a day ago — Morocco: +6175 cases (now 849532), +93 deaths (now 12361), +41306 tests (now 8.9 million) since a day ago — Turkey: +5970 cases (now 6.3 million), +290186 tests (now 75.6 million) since 23 hours ago — France: +101 deaths (now 114217) since 23 hours ago | 21:04 |
| nixter | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.16.21262069v1.full | 21:53 |
| Brainstorm | nixter: From www.medrxiv.org: Reduced T cell and antibody responses to inactivated coronavirus vaccine among males and individuals above 55 years old | medRxiv | 21:53 |
| nixter | killer t-cells (cd8+) didnt wane in 6 months with jnj, according to this (unlike with pfizer): | 22:02 |
| nixter | .title https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2108829 - see the Fig. 1 | 22:02 |
| Brainstorm | nixter: From www.nejm.org: Durable Humoral and Cellular Immune Responses 8 Months after Ad26.COV2.S Vaccination | NEJM | 22:02 |
| lastshell | 4.5M deaths world wide | 22:03 |
| nixter | probably way over 10M the real number. but way more infections among young, so when it sooner or later hits almost every old ppl too, it all depends if they have vaccinated or not, and if the protection for severe symp is still good | 22:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kenya: +788 cases (now 234589), +28 deaths (now 4694), +6690 tests (now 2.4 million) since a day ago | 22:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New Zealand anti-lockdown protest attended by just one person. → https://is.gd/oyFU7E | 22:11 |
| lastshell | nixter 10M the real number ? | 22:14 |
| nixter | those 4.5M were the official governments or hc officials numbers i suppose. most countries have had way higher excess mortality, even though not much flu around | 22:14 |
| nixter | forget about N-protein: "N-specific antibodies were reported to protect mice against mouse hepatitis virus, a mouse CoV, via Fc-mediated effector functions141,142. However, anti-N immune sera did not protect against SARS-CoV-2 infection in a mouse model | 22:15 |
| lastshell | mortality rate world wide is scary if we use the 10M | 22:16 |
| lastshell | 4_500_000 / 7_674_000_000 * 100 = 0.05863956215793589 | 22:16 |
| lastshell | 10_000_000 / 7_674_000_000 * 100 = 0.13031013812874642 | 22:16 |
| lastshell | more than 10% of the population a rough estimate | 22:17 |
| nixter | just may guess, that its probably way over 10M | 22:17 |
| lastshell | hey nixter you know where maybe I can get excess deaths metrics world wide ? | 22:18 |
| lastshell | just curios | 22:18 |
| nixter | spring 2020 eg the following countries had 80% or more higher excess mortality (when compared to low death years - because easy flu that year, and lockdowns cut it short): uk+wales, netherlands, germany, austria - and prob spain and italy too | 22:19 |
| nixter | maybe they have been closer to real excess mortality since then, but who knows for sure (i havent tried to check) | 22:20 |
| nixter | financial times published them until summer 2020, but then stopped. ny times published something later, not sure for how long they did it | 22:20 |
| lastshell | I found this https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid | 22:21 |
| nixter | belgium is the go-to country when comparing mortalities, because it seemed to report them honestly (some scandinavian countries too, excluding sweden, but with less accuracy because fatality numbers were low) | 22:22 |
| nixter | france was pretty close too, spring 2020 | 22:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: This is good. But we desperately need to get tens of millions more Americans vaccinated. To get 80% fully vaccinated across all eligible age groups. Much work to do, but that's how we'll get durable containment. → https://is.gd/krOMcg | 22:22 |
| nixter | you need to see several previous years excess mortality, not just average of the last 5 years or something, because theres lots of variance, and 2020 was low flu fatality year | 22:23 |
| nixter | so something like euromomo's graphs isnt very good | 22:23 |
| nixter | compare to other low flu fatality years. week by week, if possible (i did that for spring 2020 wave for ny city and sweden) | 22:25 |
| lastshell | oh | 22:25 |
| nixter | i wanted to know how dangerous this virus really is (was, since IFR has increased with uk and delta variants) | 22:27 |
| lastshell | for now I got news that contradict one says is more dangerous others is less | 22:28 |
| lastshell | with the delta | 22:28 |
| specing | less dangerous than climate change :P | 22:28 |
| specing | and less dangerous than pollution (~8M dead/year worldwide) | 22:28 |
| nixter | id like a link to study that found this variant less lethal, or even as lethal than previous | 22:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Israel: +10589 cases (now 1.0 million), +3 deaths (now 6950) since a day ago | 22:31 |
| lastshell | specing yeah is not to deadly but people with long covid take some time to recover | 22:34 |
| lastshell | I have some friend that got that in Feb/Mar still have issues walking until today | 22:35 |
| nixter | maybe its the time, that it takes killer t-cells to develop, that makes the difference for their lasting. viral vector vaccines dna lasts way longer in cells than mrna | 22:37 |
| lastshell | He got vaccinated after contract covid but I think was the alpha variant he has a week or two with ventilator | 22:38 |
| nixter | but theres no confirmation how important they are. many people assume they are crucial when abs are waning, to prevent severe symptoms. some think they arent, because orf8 downregulates mhc-I, which killer t-cells use to identify infected cells | 22:40 |
| lastshell | nixter is safe to get expose in small dosis ? | 22:40 |
| nixter | small doses of the virus? it depends if its enough and you are unlucky enough to develop actual infection. some people think that small dose exposing might induce cell mediated immunity or something, that would protect then from real infection or getting it bad. not proven | 22:42 |
| lastshell | I was thinking that way small dosis to get some protection but how to quantify something invisible | 22:43 |
| nixter | most people probably have breathed in small amounts of virions, especially with delta around. so i doubt something like 10 virions in nose would do anything in most cases (suggested infectious unit awhile back) | 22:44 |
| nixter | even that school infection in news, only half of kids got it - and it was one of those super spreader events | 22:44 |
| nixter | better avoid invection as long as possible. that way you also have highest change of "micro-dosing" before actual infection (if that really helped) | 22:45 |
| nixter | chance | 22:46 |
| nixter | there could be breakthroughs in treatments, if you avoid it long enough. better vaccines, more knowledge on long covid and permanent organ damage, and how to possibly avoid them | 22:49 |
| nixter | also if you wait till next summer, probably hospital bed and icu situation will be better, and they take you in before brain and multiple organ damages due to lack of oxygen | 22:50 |
| nixter | maybe its possible for some, with 3rd doses, who knows | 22:51 |
| lastshell | does wearing kn95 indoors allow microdosing / | 22:53 |
| nixter | connection problem - am i still here? | 22:54 |
| ublx | yep | 22:54 |
| nixter | funny, it just doesnt let me change the nick | 22:55 |
| nixter | yeah, prob good masks cause a lot of microdosing. i would think | 22:56 |
| nixter | if they are tight fit | 22:56 |
| trbp | actually i am atm coping with side effects of 2nd comirnaty dose after a full week, no fun, i should have waited with vaccination also longer... | 22:57 |
| nixter | what kind of side effects? i got some mild headaches, disturbed balance, and stuff for around 17 days after the 2nd. nothing bad, only interesting to see how the immune system handled it | 22:59 |
| nixter | from the 1st only sore shoulder, that i noticed | 22:59 |
| trbp | 1st none | 22:59 |
| trbp | 2nd 2 days sholder | 22:59 |
| trbp | whole week diarrhea getting stronger but that was all nothing | 23:00 |
| trbp | yesterday full cardiac attac | 23:01 |
| nixter | did you go to ER? | 23:01 |
| trbp | dr. sent me there after seeing on his ekg the curve | 23:02 |
| trbp | but guess what | 23:02 |
| nixter | they sent you home? | 23:03 |
| trbp | i waited 5h i did not see any dr. | 23:03 |
| trbp | i sent myself home after laying around 5h | 23:03 |
| nixter | go to doc again | 23:03 |
| nixter | how did they rule out it isnt sars2 infection? | 23:04 |
| trbp | using now self medication 100mg ass 20mg pantoprazol and some iberogast and coal comprets | 23:04 |
| trbp | that is the best | 23:04 |
| trbp | they took at least 75ml blood i guess enough for all test | 23:05 |
| trbp | made fast prep test as always directly made an also arythmic ekg but i never saw a dr. nor the results of the bloodtests | 23:06 |
| lastshell | trbp I also got shoulder pain | 23:06 |
| trbp | shoulder pain is nothing | 23:07 |
| lastshell | for the 1st and 2nd shot of pzier | 23:07 |
| trbp | that cardiac thing nocked me totally out | 23:07 |
| lastshell | oh how young are you ? | 23:07 |
| nixter | did they take PCR test? | 23:07 |
| trbp | who knows if it was a heartattack or i am coping with myocarditis or another infection of the heartmuscle | 23:08 |
| trbp | lastshell: a bit under 50 | 23:08 |
| lastshell | oh shit | 23:08 |
| lastshell | relax don't do anything that raise your hearth | 23:08 |
| trbp | nixter: i hope for them that they did... with all that blood, i will on monday tell my dr. to ask for the results as they refused me any | 23:09 |
| nixter | it could be, in no order of likelihood: 1) sars2 infection 2) vaccine induced, prob through immune reaction if it is 3) some other virus 4) something else | 23:09 |
| trbp | who knows if i did not get lost in all that trouble | 23:09 |
| trbp | best of all | 23:09 |
| nixter | to estimate the likelihood if its from vaccine or sars2, check this: https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/374/bmj.n1931/F1.medium.jpg | 23:09 |
| nixter | also the prevalence in your age group, you could compare | 23:10 |
| nixter | is the sars2 situation on your area bad currently? | 23:11 |
| nixter | .title https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931.short?rss=1 - that pic is from this | 23:12 |
| Brainstorm | nixter: From www.bmj.com: Risk of thrombocytopenia and thromboembolism after covid-19 vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 positive testing: self-controlled case series study | The BMJ | 23:12 |
| trbp | my dr. sent me with prognose of intestine/colon heart, excuse of the girls i asked if it is normal for someone with cardiac problems to wait so long, well you are waiting on an internal expert the others had things for cardiologs and surgeons, dang..... | 23:15 |
| nixter | .title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971221003581 - diarrhea is mentioned, but not common | 23:15 |
| Brainstorm | nixter: From www.sciencedirect.com: Side effects of BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 vaccine: A randomized, cross-sectional study with detailed self-reported symptoms from healthcare workers - ScienceDirect | 23:15 |
| nixter | which means, many of reported diarrheas after vaccination could be from other reasons | 23:16 |
| trbp | nixter: i doubt that it is covid, as i guess i was infected anyways 1,5 years ago as it started | 23:16 |
| nixter | pcr test confirmed? | 23:17 |
| trbp | exposed job with 50% arabian iranian employees | 23:17 |
| trbp | never | 23:17 |
| trbp | that things started there | 23:17 |
| trbp | and as we all know pcr is not cheap | 23:17 |
| trbp | like yesterday it got lost out of sight i would say | 23:17 |
| nixter | if it wasnt pcr test confirmed, it could have been something else too. also after that long time, reinfections are possible especially with delta | 23:18 |
| trbp | and yes the diarrheas could come from anywhere but i never changed my eating routines | 23:18 |
| trbp | and for the cardiac attac, as i am not the one unhealthy, that is for me the sign that it is from that vax | 23:19 |
| lastshell | which vaxx you got trbp ? | 23:19 |
| trbp | cominarty | 23:20 |
| trbp | biontech/pfizer | 23:20 |
| lastshell | wow I got that one too, but honestly I just got arm pain | 23:20 |
| trbp | anyways i am happy that it all starts to get better, but i am nowhere anymore to say go get your vax soon to anybody | 23:20 |
| lastshell | sorry to hear you got that bad | 23:21 |
| nixter | id get to pcr test asap. that possible positive result might make big difference what kind of long covid or persistent symptoms care you get in your country (in finland it does) | 23:21 |
| trbp | lastshell: thx, not your fault | 23:21 |
| nixter | also if it was from vaccine, you may get compensation etc | 23:21 |
| trbp | it is just that even in year 2021 medcine may know a lot but is still with such things as fast as they happen on the edge | 23:22 |
| trbp | nixter: i will for sure insist on monday on it but as i said i doubt long covid stuff.... | 23:22 |
| trbp | btw. 4 weeks between the 2 doses is a bit too short as my doc said | 23:23 |
| nixter | id go as soon as you feel you are in shape enough, so it still finds it | 23:23 |
| trbp | nixter: well as you saw in my country things happen strangely even at er | 23:24 |
| trbp | it is all about money and right insurance | 23:24 |
| nixter | was it iran? | 23:24 |
| trbp | and weekends the docs need to go yathing or golfing or anystuff | 23:24 |
| trbp | nixter: heart of europe | 23:24 |
| trbp | that said | 23:25 |
| trbp | vax is good yes | 23:25 |
| nixter | "The Heart of Europe is a cluster of six islands on The World, Dubai | 23:25 |
| trbp | but please do not push everybody into it | 23:26 |
| trbp | nixter: i doubt that what happend yesterday to me, would have happend in dubai :) | 23:26 |
| nixter | its not proven it was the vaccine. possible, but for vaccine risks i only look at statistics | 23:27 |
| trbp | nixter: you speak like a true med emp :) | 23:28 |
| trbp | almost no doc will grant 100% or proof 100% something | 23:28 |
| trbp | but anyways aftermath will follow of course | 23:29 |
| trbp | even if pcr on monday will tell long covid, what i still doubt | 23:29 |
| trbp | my diarrhea and cardiac difficulty could still come from the vax or not | 23:30 |
| nixter | yeah, pretty much nothing is certain. maybe the infinity of the universe, but im not sure of even that | 23:30 |
| nixter | - bruce lee | 23:31 |
| trbp | anyways did not want to disturb your little by little exposition discussion.... as that could be the way to go maybe unless we have a full dead vax, but last i doubt too as the med sector became a big money machine as it looks and i guess it is easier to vector or splice rna then to deactivate the right flags.... | 23:33 |
| nixter | whats the range how long pcr test still shows positive with typical cycles used after the infection? or for some specific threshold? | 23:34 |
| lastshell | 40 maybe source : https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90508 | 23:36 |
| nixter | btw, if that doc thought 4 weeks might be too soon, he probably meant for optimal antibody response (which are currently thought, would be better with 6 weeks or more, with mrna vaccines) | 23:37 |
| nixter | not for avoiding side effects | 23:37 |
| nixter | hundreds of millions have got pfizer with 3 week interval | 23:37 |
| trbp | sure and who know how many had effects, were taken for real or went to the docs | 23:38 |
| LjL | trbp, what do you mean by a "cardiac attack"? a full-blown heart attack, or "just" something not quite right on EKG? | 23:38 |
| LjL | if you have myocarditis, which is a known possible side effect of the vaccine you took, it's important you *don't* exercise, and rest | 23:38 |
| LjL | of course medical attention is also important but if they didn't care after 5 hours, i don't know what to say ;( | 23:39 |
| nixter | yeah, i meant days from infection, that those pcr tests still show positive. i know about ct values used and what they probably mean (it varies a lot what they use in different places, and for different purposes) | 23:39 |
| trbp | LjL: i doubt it was a full-blown attack but as i still have typical breast pain i doubt whatever it is did not attack my heart | 23:39 |
| lastshell | yeah I got mine at 21 days / 3 weeks | 23:39 |
| trbp | LjL: worst of all i was lying around from one couch to another and even the personal running around looked strange while i could open my eyes... not even one came and asked if i am ok | 23:40 |
| trbp | LjL: but no wonders, recently 2 hospitals closed around here so they have a lot to do... at least that was another explanation of the personal | 23:41 |
| lastshell | could be bad temperature of the vaccine ? | 23:42 |
| nixonix | ah, it didnt let me change the nick because i was on a channel where i was quieted | 23:42 |
| nixonix | for excess trolling | 23:42 |
| trbp | nixonix: standard values for most ircds | 23:43 |
| nixonix | or maybe because i wasnt regged... | 23:43 |
| LjL | trbp, but your EKG was not normal? | 23:44 |
| trbp | LjL: i am no expert but they both (that one from the doc in the morning and that taken at er entry) did not look 100% regular | 23:45 |
| trbp | but please do not ask me why or if ever any cardiolog or other doc has seen it | 23:46 |
| trbp | i doubt it | 23:46 |
| trbp | as in the 5h people came and went past me | 23:46 |
| LjL | i think your doctor would know if something's obviously wrong in it | 23:46 |
| trbp | he was the one who sent me for recheck in as emergency | 23:47 |
| trbp | i even doubt that my blood was tested right... what ever they are also only people trying to do their best i hope | 23:47 |
| trbp | but shit happens and me got yesterday a fullblown dose of it | 23:48 |
| LjL | trbp, are you sure it's wise to self-medicate? pantoprazole can cause, as a "serious" side effect, "rregular, fast, or pounding heartbeat muscle spasms" | 23:48 |
| LjL | that kinda sounds like something one should not take when one has a possible irregular heart rhythm | 23:48 |
| trbp | LjL: i know my first goal was hydrotalcid also contraproductive with diarrhea... and no worries all are least medicated as possible... | 23:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: Absolutely. Some people seem to have the idea that ADE is some vaccine-only effect, but that’s certainly not the case. → https://is.gd/wGD7eP | 23:50 |
| nixonix | as an armchair expert, i also add that diarrhea could cause electrolyte disbalance that can cause arrhytmic event or worse (not sure if possible from like single day, but if persistent) | 23:50 |
| trbp | and yes if i was sure that i would not get another job like yesterday or it gets much worse i will call ambulance | 23:50 |
| twomoon | 2020 was the year of self medication | 23:51 |
| trbp | but for now i try to keep calm and cope myself with that until monday as weekends are almost only student docs around even in hospitals and so on.... | 23:51 |
| twomoon | this is starting to get scary | 23:51 |
| trbp | twomoon: selfmed was ever humanmankind is around | 23:52 |
| trbp | but what should people do if medsector becomes a ballgame of the profit and slaved employee market? | 23:52 |
| twomoon | you should consult a doctor about medications | 23:54 |
| twomoon | drugs | 23:54 |
| nixonix | no, its not a word. *imbalance | 23:54 |
| trbp | twomoon: the difference between should ought and could are watering after such experiences like i had, though. but still i do not say what i did/do is best and everybody should do alike... but for me i do not see any other choice besides, waiting maybe another round of hours to get a bed maybe and even if they put me on the monitor, after experiencing what i did at er entrance who can grant that a | 23:58 |
| trbp | ny beep on station will be answered? | 23:59 |
| twomoon | are you Julius? | 23:59 |
| LjL | also, all medical predicaments always happen on weekends | 23:59 |
| LjL | is a universal rule | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
