libera/##covid-19/ Sunday, 2021-08-29

trbpLjL: of course :) not all but some and for lucky people like me always ;)00:00
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/143036550589903667600:00
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): "Good question. The B cells that recognize the new antigen were always there! Just one copy per body. Each B cell when it's born is unique, and then if it's [...]00:00
trbptwomoon: who is julius?00:00
LjLtwomoon, why would he be Julius?00:00
LjLthat's totally not Julius's MO00:01
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/143130595350528410000:03
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): "Tho I promote Regeneron to those who find themselves with COVID, it should be mentioned that it is all but certain that any given vaccinated person makes the [...]00:03
twomoonJulius is a troll who pretends to be an anti-vaxxer just to troll better00:03
trbpi am not antivax00:04
trbpi just wanted to wait long enough for enough statistics00:04
trbpand what happend to me maybe the least percentile00:04
trbpbut what happend to me makes me not want to speak other into vax anymore....00:05
nixonix(one of those regn2 antibodies, imdevimap, is compromised for delta, according to gupta lab - but the point was the other thing in that tweet)00:05
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A total of 160,000 people protested across France on Saturday, the interior ministry said, angered at the country's Covid health pass system which they say unfairly restricts the unvaccinated. By early evening the authorities had logged 222 separate protest actions → https://is.gd/vJe5Et00:13
twomoonok sorry trbp00:18
twomoonbeing anti vax is okay00:18
twomooni have nothing against it00:18
twomoontwo people just died because of a faulty batch of moderna00:18
twomoonand there were some faulty batches of moderna that caused vaccine clinics to be shut down in the US00:18
twomoonbeing anti vax for the wrong reasons is bad though. and then trusting your pastor or favorite instagram influencer for advice on alternate drugs to combat covid00:20
trbptwomoon: that is bullshit, i agree00:21
trbpbut i thought after mio of doses given, like someone mentioned here also, i would be somewhat save, wrong thought maybe it was also wrong temp maybe i also have a hidden cold or influenza running parallel, but it is at least for me a sign not to take any med/vax easy and/or granted00:23
nixonixwhat are good reasons to be anti-vax?00:24
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1431732835392557064/photo/100:24
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Irene Tosetti (@itosettiMD_MBA): "From @PeterHotez in @CircAHA" | El Pajarito de NoGAFAM00:24
trbpnixonix: the best reason for me?00:25
trbpif i did have a bit worse physis like i have, i could go ex00:26
trbpwithout, who knows if i go ex, though i am pretty sure exposed anyways with alpha or beta00:26
trbpbut there are no good or bad reasons pro or con00:27
nixonixanybody could drop dead today, from lots of reasons. from these vaccines currently approved in the west, esp mrna types, its just very unlikely. check the pic in that tweet00:27
trbppeople should decide free and understand the problems that can occur00:27
trbpnixonix: i do not say that i am the rule here00:28
trbpnixonix: i trusted that charts too00:28
trbpand most people do have no problems00:28
nixonixits just way more likely that they get problems from sars2 infection than these vaccines. IFR from sars2 depends especially on age, but was something like 1% on average with old variants, now possibly 3x that00:34
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot → https://is.gd/IoYmkh00:35
nixonixfrom mrna vaccines its something like 10k times lower. sure the difference for young people isnt nearly as big, but especially considering other damages than deaths, theres no question its safer00:35
nixonixi tried to find another day if there has been deaths because of mrna vaccine induced myo/pericardites. apparently they havent found one yet00:40
nixonixthe same with allergic reaction to PEG or whatever the cause, i coundt find any confirmed deaths. if you know there is, please link00:42
nixonixso far confirmed deaths induced by mrna vaccines: 0 (i think there might be a few, just not identified, but certainly not many - 1B doses or so probably administered)00:43
nixonixso being anti-vax, meaning especially these mrna vaccines, is just lack of knowledge or inability to compare the risks (if its not something like ideology motivated)00:45
trbpnixonix: i did not belive that myo/pericardites, too. especially after almost a full week... sounds all strange i know and only because of what happend to me nobody says it happens to all....00:45
trbpand it is not only the rmna vax that can make complications00:45
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: What about the risk of automimunne conditions and Covid?An excellent new review @TheLancetRheum ? risk of infection, hospitalization, death; Glucocorticoids increased risk, cytokine inhibitors, vaccination impact https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(21)00247-2/fulltext → https://is.gd/No4glz00:46
nixonix"too"? who doesnt believe mrna vaccines can cause myo/pericardites?00:46
trbpstill vax are good but should be given in a more controlled context than happens now, also with that compulsary subtone most people hang with them00:47
nixonixcontrolled?00:47
trbpnixonix: where did you get your vax?00:48
nixonixfrom nurse in vaccination center00:48
trbpand that is control for you?00:49
nixonixwhat are you asking for control?00:49
twomoontrbp where are you located may i ask?00:49
trbptwomoon: heart of europe, germany... with an ever growing force to get compulsary vax00:50
trbpnixonix: at least a doctor should make a physis checkup before choosing the vax00:51
nixonixfor allergic reactions, there is usually 15 min waiting (imo it could be longer). for heart risks, if you are not young male you get like couple months worth myocarditis of risk within week or so. more if you are young male, but still maybe something like years worth of risk00:51
trbpthe vax temps should be recontrolled00:51
trbpand the doctor should follow up00:51
twomooni'm really against compulsory vaccination00:51
twomoonbut i'm also a pro vaxxer00:52
nixonixif you want some heart event panic button for every vaccinated, you sould want them for everybody else too, since normal living, just a bit longer time than that week, is more dangerous for your heart00:52
trbpnixonix: those 15min were more likely like 5min with me00:52
trbpand that cardiac occurance came a full week after 2nd dose with me00:52
nixonixmore i hear risk comparisons like this, the more i start to turn towards mandatory vaccines - even for those persons own sake, because its obvious people cant judge things like simple risk comparisons00:53
trbpand again i am not the rule here but saying that chart x shows indication z while y die and w live is a bit to easy here00:53
trbpnixonix: i hope for your sake you will never find yourself on the wrong side of the line wherever or whenever that will be...00:55
trbpnixonix: it is not about a red panic button for everybody but a bit better controlled application00:56
gryis there a good test for wheher or not a person has natural immunity, if they didn't get tested for covid at the time they probably had it?00:57
trbpand to be frank, even beeing pro vax, we must admit that study conclusion is in some 3 years from now00:57
nixonixthre might be a problem in healthcare in your country or region, but the problem isnt in safety of these mrna vaccines. on the contrary, they are extremely safe, and statistics show that00:57
nixonixmandatory vaccinations might help for that, reducing the pressure in healthcare...00:58
trbpgry i guess there is but that kind of (pcr) test will be too expensive and takes to long for normal use00:58
BrainstormUpdates for Guatemala: +3736 cases (now 463753), +50 deaths (now 11818), +15802 tests (now 2.2 million) since a day ago — Ecuador: +360 cases (now 500444), +41 deaths (now 32207), +2731 tests (now 1.8 million) since a day ago01:00
nixonixi wonder if i could get double dose pfizer for the 3rd, if theres not shortage anymore that time (if not, then moderna, since more mrna despite worse codon optimization - if confirmed that it wanes slower)01:01
twomooncan we do variolation vaccination with covid?01:02
twomooni would like to try that01:02
LjLtrbp, PCR doesn't test immunity01:02
LjLgry, do you mean for someone who got vaccinated later?01:03
twomoonhttps://english.kyodonews.net/news/2021/08/8ee2cd751fdb-2-men-die-in-japan-after-receiving-dose-of-suspended-moderna-vaccines.html01:03
trbpLjL: that is why i put it in pranthesis, i guess he needs more thither test or something alike01:03
LjLtwomoon, "variolation vaccination" isn't a thing. variolation is the thing that came *before* vaccination, and it killed a lot of people01:03
twomoonoh i see01:04
LjLnixonix, i'm reading the backscroll and i am perplexed. this whole "turn towards mandatory vaccination" for you started from "<nixonix> what are good reasons to be anti-vax?", to which trbp (who has just had some possible, and serious, side effects from the vaccine, so it's pretty human to assume he's not ecstatic about the vaccine right now) answered. but the one who said "being anti vax is okay" was twomoon, so you should ask him...?01:06
nixonixidk how variolation type of things could be done with rona. your own dendritic cells maybe could be inoculated with real virus, but it would kill them all probably, idk01:06
LjLi think this sort of exemplifies the sort of misunderstandings and knee-jerk reactions that end up dividing us all into camps01:06
twomoonsorry01:06
nixonixwhat was the question?01:07
LjLwhat question?01:08
nixonixso there was no question. i posted a link for risk comparison, but it seems it didnt help to compare the risks01:08
gryLjL: i mean, they didn't get vaccinated afterwards yet - just wants to do test for whethre or not they had a mild infection previously01:08
gryLjL: like asymptomatic or mild01:09
LjLgry, well just get an antibody test... sure, it may test negative because the infection was long ago, but if it tests negative then there are reasonable chances they may be re-infected anyway (yes, i know it's not all in the antibodies, but still)01:09
nixonixso i dont know what is left, if people are given two revolvers, one with 1 round and one with 5 rounds, to play russian roulette, and many people pick the one with 5 rounds. but to mandate them to pick the one with only 1 round01:10
gryLjL: some sources suggest IgM & IgG antibodies are a bad measure because it is another department of immune system that is fighting the infection01:10
LjLnixonix, you're saying this based on the replies of someone who's just had a cardiac attack after the vaccine01:10
LjLjesus christ01:11
LjLcan we all be a tiny bit reasonable01:11
LjLgry, there are no other tests that are commercially available afaik (T-cells and B-cells are only tested in studies)01:11
nixonixmaybe, but if it goes on and on with arguments like "i used to believe in myo/pericarditis and statistics too", but i still got the heart issue. there are lots of people in this channel, and this was turning to typical anti-vax arguments01:12
LjLokay, then i'll see myself away since i'm watching a movie anyway, feel free to dig deeper into the camp vs camp thing01:13
nixonixno, i let it be now01:13
nixonix(i still dont support vaccine mandations for most people, just for healthcare and elderly care - but incentives for bar and events use etc, which are temporary anyway)01:18
nixonixdenmark is going to remove those on couple of weeks. too early imo, but lets see what will happen01:19
trbpnixonix: i apologize again if you got that kind of picture from our conversation01:22
nixonixnp. but get into pcr fast, as long as it still shows up, if it was sars2, so you can prove it01:25
nixonixand if vaccine induced, then for possible compensation (or treatment paid by pfizer)01:27
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/143141868370903040001:33
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): "First, why is it important? Because breaking transmission is the 2nd most important fxn of vaccines, after preventing death directly. Breaking transmission reduces [...]01:33
BrainstormUpdates for Fiji: +258 cases (now 45631), +1716 tests (now 371428) since a day ago — Rwanda: +9 deaths (now 1074), +26058 tests (now 2.4 million) since a day ago01:37
LjLi feel like crap, as periodically happens, my oxygen saturation moves between 93 and 96 (not saying it's COVID at all, this is something that just periodically happens)01:40
BrainstormUpdates for Trinidad and Tobago: +16 cases (now 44015), +855 tests (now 306536) since a day ago02:02
nixonixwell, i checked the odds that mrna vaccine would cause myo/pericarditis after 2nd dose for something like under 50 yo (using 40-49);02:13
nixonixexpected from 8.5M 2nd doses within 21 day period: 5-49. observed: 40. so withing expected range, but its possible that there were some cases. not proved though02:15
nixonixoccurence 5/1M (but within normal background, so they might all be something else than from vaccine)02:15
nixonixbeing just 1 week after 2nd dose probably increases the odds somewhat. but because it was pfizer instead of moderna, it reduces02:16
nixonixi think it was this one: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-06/03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf02:19
nixonixso if using the number 27 per 21 days for normal background, and that was 13 more, pfizer half of that is 6.5, that means for that age group 2nd dose of pizer increases the myo/pericarditis risk one weeks worth of normal life02:22
nixonixbut moderna 2 weeks - both less from first doses. verdict: no myo/pericarditis (where 95% of cases are mild anyway, from mrna vaccine) found for that age group. unlike from sars2 infection02:25
BrainstormUpdates for Ukraine: +1808 cases (now 2.3 million), +55 deaths (now 55234) since 22 hours ago — Barbados: +92 cases (now 4881) since a day ago — France: +13522 cases (now 6.8 million) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +2611 cases (now 1.5 million), +11 deaths (now 26921) since 22 hours ago02:39
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Why does Michigan, which has a considerably lower vaccination rate than the New England states (shown here), have one of the lowest US case rates (= Vermont, 20/100,000) and hospitalization rates (11/100K)?Prior covid immunity from its hard-hit Alpha wave may be playing a role. → https://is.gd/2l7vfU02:46
nixonix.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.22.21262161v1?rss=1  pfizer > AZ > Sputnik > Sinopharm02:54
Brainstormnixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Direct Comparison of Antibody Responses to Four SARS-CoV-2 Vaccines in Mongolia | medRxiv02:54
LjLSinopharm coming out last is now officially a trend02:57
LjLwhat about Sinovac though?02:57
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Direct Comparison of Antibody Responses to Four SARS-CoV-2 Vaccines in Mongolia ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/6X8MH2G4 )03:03
nixonixi would have expected sputnik with two viral vectors to be stronger. at least in their assays az clearly beat it03:06
nixonixmaybe some existing immunity in convalescent persons for ad5 affected (and thats the case in population too, which is the reason it shouldnt be used imo)03:09
de-factoweird that sputnik looks so bad in that paper, i would have expected it to be better03:13
nixonixneut abs is not all there is for protection. it matters most for infection and symptoms, and if you dont get either, you wont get severe symptoms or die, so theres hat03:15
nixonix+t03:15
lbri had the impression that russians vac is the astra zeneca rebranded03:15
nixonixmajority of experts seem to think, killer t-cells have the main role in case it goes severe, and that looks to be more lasting for both az and pfizer, maybe for sputnik too (but not everybody agree with them, like leonardi doesnt)03:17
de-factobut how come it got lower levels than AZ, Sputnik using heterogeneous adenovirus vectors03:18
nixonixindian covishield is az rebranded and manufactured in indian plants03:18
lbrthose t-cells how u test for them?03:18
lbrbone marrow only way?03:18
nixonixno, b-cells migrate to bone marrow03:21
nixonixt-cells, you can do laborious counting etc, then there are assays that recognize them for their secreted interferons, and possibly other ways too (most dont tell much details on reactivity etc)03:22
lbrbut which ones stays for longer?03:22
lbrmemory cells but which are those?03:22
lbrt or b?03:23
nixonixit should be bone marrow b-cells (although i quoted here something couple of days ago saying something else, but i suppose they had a mistake in their paper)03:23
lbrnixonix, u vaccinated?03:25
nixonixyep03:25
lbrwhich u got?03:25
lbrpfizer?03:25
nixonixyeah03:25
lbryou know if u had the infection before shot?03:25
lbrand was sympthomatic?03:25
nixonixcant be sure03:26
specing<nixonix> i would have expected sputnik with two viral vectors to be stronger.03:26
specingsame03:26
lbrbut if you guys we're to be infected03:26
lbrwould you still get vacc after?03:26
specingyes03:27
nixonixyep, but one dose should be enough. the next one then after 6 months or something like that03:27
specingmy health authority recommends it and my gov requires it03:27
lbrwerent you guys afraid to get vaccinated?:D03:28
specingno03:28
LjLi was afraid of being with a lot of people some of which might have COVID while waiting to be vaccinated03:28
LjLbut it was large and well aerated and i was wearing a good mask03:29
lbri'm afraid ill catch it at the vac point lol03:29
BrainstormUpdates for Ivory Coast: +290 cases (now 54856), +8 deaths (now 424) since a day ago — Egypt: +251 cases (now 287644), +8 deaths (now 16714) since 23 hours ago — Gabon: +57 cases (now 25819) since 2 days ago — Paraguay: +11 deaths (now 15686), +3001 tests (now 1.8 million) since 22 hours ago03:29
lbrwith this delta variant spreads so fast and easy03:29
lbrpeople here have only stupid useless mask03:30
lbrno n95 or better03:30
LjLyou can wear one that's not stupid and useless. a good N95 or N99 mask will protect you, not just others03:30
lbryeah but no chance to get them03:30
LjLwhy03:30
lbror way to expensive and dont sell in low quantity03:31
LjLwhat country?03:31
lbrand some are counterfeit03:31
lbrro03:31
LjLto be fair, i'm afraid my amazon is out of Auras ;(03:31
specinglbr: vac point here was deserted. Only me, 4 others and 5 vaccination staff03:31
specingI had to wait ~20 mins for enough people to gather for them to open a vial03:32
lbry but the nurses 99% they have it03:32
specinglbr: go there in scuba gear lol03:32
LjLlbr, Romania? right now my Amazon doesn't have single 3M Auras, but it did until recently, they were between €5.50 and €7 each, depending on the time. you would have to pay more for the shipping since Amazon doesn't have a site in Romania (around €6 more i think(03:32
lbri see them tested for antibodys and all have them03:32
lbr:)03:33
LjLwell that's annoying, all EU Amazons are out of single Auras, both FFP2 and FFP303:33
LjLUK has the P303:34
lbrbut you guys are sure those are good ones?03:34
lbri mean from 3m reseller03:34
lbrand no some cheap chinese guy03:34
specinglbr: you'll have antibodies for months if not years after getting over covid03:34
LjLa "cheap chinese guy" will make nothing that looks and feels like an Aura03:35
lbri heard stories with 3m masks from polland03:35
lbrcounterfeit03:35
LjLhttps://www.amazon.it/dp/B00D04BJ8U  €18 for 5, although it's P2 not P303:35
lbrthey bought here03:35
lbrthe goverment03:35
specinglbr: and also months/years after being vaccinated (unless its mrna? LjL ?)03:35
lbrto give to hospitals03:35
lbrand all were fakes03:35
lbrthey sent them to belgium for analysis03:36
LjLspecing, who knows03:36
LjLspecing, i wouldn't say mRNA is the determinant03:36
specingI was hoping you would03:36
lbrwe dont even have a lab here to test the conformity03:36
specingLjL: My understanding is that with viral vector vaccines your body actually has to kill these cells, so you must have antibodies. But with mrna you are only showing the immune system how to recognise infected cells in the future03:37
LjLspecing, AZ antibodies seem to wane slower than BNT ones, but logically speaking (yes i know logic has limits in medicine), adenoviral vectors still produce mRNA which then causes the S-protein to be produced. it's not *so* different, imo, that one vaccine's antibodies would stay forever, while the other's would disappear completely at some point03:38
LjLspecing, i don't know about that. the adenovirus itself doesn't reproduce. it may produce multiple copies of the S-protein, but so may the mRNA alone...03:38
nixonixantibodies dont kill cells. but vector vaccines produce s-protein in cells longer time (and probably at slower rate), which could possibly be the reason why the protection could wane slower (being lower to begin with)03:40
nixonixits all a bit mess, experts dont know what all correlates with the protection03:41
lbrand yet we play god with those mrna vaccines:D03:42
lbror new tehnologies03:42
LjLmaybe we shouldn't have played god with bats to begin with03:42
nixonixi didnt03:42
LjLthat's exactly what a wannabe god would say03:43
lbrwhat if that pig flu03:43
specingwe definetely should play god with everything03:44
nixonixim just curious. and maybe theyll sell some splicing kits in ebay some day03:44
lbrspreads like corona from human to human03:44
* specing maintains that we (humans) are gods03:44
lbrhas 60%mortality03:44
lbror its bird flu i forgot03:44
lbrwe lucky we dont have ebola like corona too03:44
LjLwe're lucky the last Nipah virus outbreak was contained "quickly"03:46
LjLthat's a good candidate for a really deadly pandemic03:46
lbri dont think i know that one03:46
LjL%wik Nipah virus03:46
BrainstormLjL, from English Wikipedia: Nipah virus, scientific name Nipah henipavirus,  is a bat-borne virus that causes Nipah virus infection in humans and other animals, a disease with a high mortality rate. Numerous disease outbreaks caused by Nipah virus have occurred in South and Southeast Asia. Nipah virus belongs to the genus [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipah_virus03:46
LjL%wik 2018 Nipah virus outbreak in Kerala03:46
BrainstormLjL, from English Wikipedia: The 2018 Kerala Nipah virus outbreak was an outbreak of the Nipah virus in India's southern state Kerala, traced to the  fruit bats in the area. The outbreak was localized in Kozhikode and Malappuram districts of Kerala and claimed 17 lives, The outbreak was contained and declared over [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Nipah_virus_outbreak_in_Kerala03:46
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/1431655447161806851  - i see a lot this type of tweets. they dont know03:47
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): "Israeli data saying they get less breakthru in people with prior alpha infection than Pfizer full-vax is interesting. May be an indication that there is more [...]03:47
LjL%wik Virus (2019 film)03:48
BrainstormLjL, from English Wikipedia: Virus is a 2019 Indian Malayalam-language medical thriller film co-produced and directed by Aashiq Abu set against the backdrop of the 2018 Nipah virus outbreak in Kerala. The film was written by Muhsin Parari, Sharfu, and Suhas. It stars an ensemble cast that includes Kunchacko Boban, Asif Ali, [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_(2019_film)03:48
LjLnixonix, that paper sure confused people03:48
lbri should start find a remote island and live on it alone=)03:48
LjLgood luck03:49
lbr:)03:49
nixonixtrouble getting good masks, eric feigl-ding has tweeted a lot about kf-94 masks, and where to order good ones (i think it was some alibaba seller)03:50
lbrkf?03:50
lbrthose are new?03:50
lbri hear kn and other crap03:50
lbrbut kf lewl03:50
lbralso we focus too much on nouse and mouth03:51
lbrand forget ear and eyes=)03:51
de-factowith all those comparisons (vaccines, recoveries, etc) i miss one thing: immunization age till breakthrough/reinfection03:54
nixonixkf94 is a korean standard, close to ffp2 but apparently a bit different type. check his tweets around 2 weeks ago (i saw he recommended models for childern, but prob at some point for adults too)03:55
de-factoalso: what are they comparing, endpoints?03:56
LjLi think it's mostly just that Korean masks tend to be different, with a style more similar to 3M masks than to the classic KN95 masks03:56
LjLthe standard is incidental03:56
LjLit just happens that if you want that type of masks, they are likely to be Korean, so they are likely to be KF9403:57
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/143069796885675214004:05
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Lin, PhD-MD (@michaelzlin): "However the fact that Sinovac protection vs death and hospitalization never gets better than 80% suggests that T cell responses, which limit late disease, may not [...]04:05
BrainstormUpdates for India: +526 deaths (now 437370) since 19 hours ago04:06
lbr437370?04:07
lbrwasnt that guy head of gov advisory or smth04:07
lbrsaying that they have like 4-5 mil deaths of covid in india04:07
lbror they still go with "official' documented cases04:08
lbri dont trust anymore any of those reported cases04:08
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/142673482459790131704:08
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): "Sounds like you've been talking to experts that emphasize cell memory for cov2 control instead of antibodies. If you must rely on an immune system [...]04:08
* archpc peeks in04:13
nixonixwhen cases in india have gone down showing some degree of herd immunity affecting, considering their median age, vaccine coverage etc i think 4-5M or even more is likely04:14
BrainstormNew from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: So Alex Berenson has *finally* been suspended from Twitter, after months the most putrid, mendacious Covid takes imaginable.Good riddance. But this just means that he’ll be squeezing money out of his fans even harder on other platforms. → https://is.gd/1tfUIb04:16
nixonix.title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(21)00247-2/fulltext04:22
Brainstormnixonix: From www.thelancet.com: COVID-19 and immune-mediated inflammatory diseases: effect of disease and treatment on COVID-19 outcomes and vaccine responses - The Lancet Rheumatology04:22
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/ProfMakris/status/143133470912512410104:24
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Makris (@ProfMakris): "The #COVID19 Pfizer vaccine was as immunogenic in HIV +ve individuals (almost all of whom had negative HIV viral load) as in HIV -ve health care workers. [...]04:24
nixonixthat paper i quoted about killer t-cells continuing making damage in airways for months after acute infection. here's leonardi's take:04:27
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/143084992084883456104:27
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): "The superantigen will push cd8s to cytotoxicity non-specifically. This will manifest in immune-mediated pathology. I wrote this long ago [...]04:27
nixonixi was wondering what could cause it. maybe. it was resembling some snake venoms04:28
nixonixno, it was that enzyme that was:04:30
nixonix.title https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210824135358.htm04:30
Brainstormnixonix: From www.sciencedaily.com: Like venom coursing through the body: Researchers identify mechanism driving COVID-19 mortality -- ScienceDaily04:30
BrainstormUpdates for Saint Lucia: +337 cases (now 8050), +2 deaths (now 103) since a day ago — Dominica: +299 cases (now 1638), +3 deaths (now 4) since 6 days ago — Mali: +32 cases (now 14846), +1 deaths (now 539) since a day ago04:31
LjL<lbr> or they still go with "official' documented cases ← what else would one go on? yes, we know they're really many more than that, but what should the bot (or the Indian government) do, just multiply the numbers they have by 5 and give that?04:37
LjLevery country is giving their respective official numbers04:37
LjLthere is no difference between india and anywhere else about that, except of course the amount of undercounting is not the same in all countries (but likely exists to some extent in all)04:38
LjLarchpc, hi, i had some 93% saturation earlier and felt like shit04:38
LjL83% must feel rather unnice04:38
lbri meant they know there are more cases but they intentionally underreport them to not cuase panic04:40
LjLmaybe, i have no evidence of that. i have evidence of a very big country with 1.4 billion people and many places with barely any healthcare, so i wouldn't be surprised at cases just being severely underreported "naturally"04:43
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/142505563504188622204:47
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Alex Kokcharov (@AlexKokcharov): "In #Russia, the number of officially reported #COVID19 deaths has been hovering just below the 800 per day mark for weeks. Such consistency is statistically [...]04:47
de-factoWhy dont we have lipid nano particles for mRNA delivery that got a destination address on them, like e.g. the s-protein to target the same cells as SARS-CoV-2 would?04:55
de-factoand then spray them in the upper respiratory tract, to target the same cells in the same location where also contamination with SARS-CoV-2 would occur04:57
nixonix.title https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00259-021-05528-405:02
Brainstormnixonix: From link.springer.com: Similar patterns of [18F]-FDG brain PET hypometabolism in paediatric and adult patients with long COVID: a paediatric case series | SpringerLink05:02
nixonix.title https://twitter.com/PSHolstein/status/143017163630564147205:08
Brainstormnixonix: From twitter.com: Philipp S. Holstein (@PSHolstein): ""The estimated prevalence of neurological or psychiatric manifestations of COVID-19 was four times more common in hospitalised children and adolescents than in [...]05:08
nixonixcheck the whole thread, and open the thread starting post that is in german, to see even more studies linked in it05:09
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 positive man charged after weeks on the run → https://is.gd/QDT5xS05:12
nixonixlike this (other than that, applied locally, i dont think there are currently good ways to distribute them to just some specific cells. maybe some day):05:13
nixonix.title05:13
Brainstormnixonix: From is.gd: COVID-19 positive man charged after weeks on the run : worldnews05:13
nixonixdamn, need sleep05:13
nixonix.title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30609147/05:13
Brainstormnixonix: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Inhaled Nanoformulated mRNA Polyplexes for Protein Production in Lung Epithelium - PubMed05:13
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Texas Anti-Mask 'Freedom Defender' Caleb Wallace Dies Of COVID-19 → https://is.gd/MbxvOh05:57
BrainstormNew from This Week In Virology: TWiV 798: Rats, more coronaviruses!: The TWiV team explains what the Biden report on SARS-CoV-2 origins did not: evidence that the virus came from Nature, not a lab; and reveals new coronaviruses in rodents that inhabit populated areas in southern China. → https://is.gd/cQ8myN06:18
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Britons, unfazed by high Covid rates, weigh their ‘price of freedom’ → https://is.gd/qzicfk06:39
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New Zealand Police set up checkpoint to stop people going to see orca pod during lockdown. → https://is.gd/uJ9YuT06:50
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Secret army of 200 weapons obsessed ex-soldiers plotting attacks on vaccine centers → https://is.gd/dpuqxu07:22
BrainstormUpdates for New South Wales, Australia: +1213 cases (now 24585), +6 deaths (now 143) since a day ago — Veneto, Italy: +864 cases (now 453388), +5 deaths (now 11681) since a day ago — Ceara, Brazil: +862 cases (now 930816), +27 deaths (now 24015) since a day ago — Zuid-Holland, Netherlands: +717 cases (now 459000), +1 deaths (now 4340) since a day ago07:38
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A grim warning from Israel: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta → https://is.gd/fcORPp07:43
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Japan’s Okinawa suspends Moderna shots after detecting contamination → https://is.gd/fIsp3h08:05
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Wuhan facilities shed light on China’s oversight on wildlife use → https://is.gd/qwaX6108:36
BrainstormUpdates for India: +45083 cases (now 32.7 million), +839 deaths (now 437687) since 22 hours ago08:40
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | August 29, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/XEQOMO09:08
BrainstormUpdates for Taiwan: +23 cases (now 15983), +1 deaths (now 834) since 17 hours ago09:30
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): China_Flu: COVID-19 Is a Vascular Disease: Coronavirus’ Spike Protein Attacks Vascular System on a Cellular Level → https://is.gd/Vrzuop10:11
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Unwanted record: Russia’s COVID deaths hit new high in July → https://is.gd/UE6TkI11:04
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +10148 cases (now 3.9 million), +34 deaths (now 92631) since 19 hours ago — Estonia: +330 cases (now 141344), +4371 tests (now 1.7 million) since a day ago — Brunei: +82 cases (now 2462), +3035 tests (now 223861) since a day ago11:09
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Seventh consecutive weekly protest against France's Covid-19 'health pass' → https://is.gd/fA0sw111:15
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: NHS blood test tube shortage: Doctors 'facing difficult choices': Doctors call for more guidance after the NHS in England and Wales stops all non-urgent blood tests. → https://is.gd/FjJx1011:25
BrainstormUpdates for Afghanistan: +137 cases (now 153144), +12 deaths (now 7116), +469 tests (now 751100) since 21 hours ago — Israel: +1536 cases (now 1.0 million), +8 deaths (now 6958), +102935 tests (now 19.0 million) since 13 hours ago — Japan: +10720 cases (now 1.4 million), +45 deaths (now 15896), +99437 tests (now 21.5 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?]11:34
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: China rejects US Report that says Coronavirus may have come From Wuhan lab → https://is.gd/kaK52L11:36
BrainstormUpdates for Russia: +19286 cases (now 6.9 million), +797 deaths (now 181637), +500000 tests (now 178.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Poland: +203 cases (now 2.9 million), +74716 tests (now 19.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Slovakia: +53 cases (now 394710), +2832 tests (now 3.3 million) since 23 hours ago11:59
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moderna vaccinations halted in Japan’s Okinawa after ‘black substances’ found in vial, days after other batch of jab was suspended → https://is.gd/dyXmN112:07
BrainstormUpdates for UAE: +987 cases (now 716381), +2 deaths (now 2038), +348771 tests (now 74.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Croatia: +377 cases (now 373191), +1 deaths (now 8325), +9570 tests (now 2.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Latvia: +196 cases (now 142319), +27297 tests (now 3.5 million) since a day ago13:01
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Opinion: I was once a hardcore anti-vaxxer. Now I try to nudge people to get the Covid-19 vaccine: As I read a message from a friend who opposes getting vaccinated against Covid-19, I take a breath and try to remember that perspective, that feeling of being so sure… → https://is.gd/G6unvA13:11
BrainstormUpdates for Malaysia: +20579 cases (now 1.7 million), +285 deaths (now 16087), +151048 vaccines (now 19.2 million), +132087 tests (now 22.5 million) since a day ago — Indonesia: +7427 cases (now 4.1 million), +551 deaths (now 131923), +786703 vaccines (now 61.2 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?]13:38
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): Covid2019: American Academy of Pediatrics - Children and COVID-19: State-Level Data Report → https://is.gd/MPvyYJ13:43
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Switzerland Warns of Terror Attacks on Vaccine Sites → https://is.gd/81B10l14:14
BrainstormUpdates for Vietnam: +12645 cases (now 435114), +344 deaths (now 10749) since 23 hours ago — Eq. Guinea: +153 cases (now 9326), +1 deaths (now 124), +4165 tests (now 195087) since 3 days ago — Tunisia: +2265 cases (now 660587), +187 deaths (now 23369), +12141 tests (now 2.6 million) since 20 hours ago [... want %more?]14:40
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China asks WHO to investigate Fort Detrick, UNC bio labs for Covid-19 origins - China is requesting a transparent investigation with full access to the labs of Fort Detrick and the University of North Carolina in the US → https://is.gd/E3rTpH15:08
Arsaneritha ha15:08
BrainstormUpdates for Nepal: +1214 cases (now 759222), +24 deaths (now 10714), +7259 tests (now 3.9 million) since a day ago — Denmark: +538 cases (now 344039), +2 deaths (now 2579), +67228 tests (now 80.8 million) since 23 hours ago15:30
BrainstormUpdates for Iraq: +6083 cases (now 1.9 million), +67 deaths (now 20699), +32313 tests (now 14.3 million) since a day ago — Azerbaijan: +4010 cases (now 417996), +41 deaths (now 5553), +16536 tests (now 4.4 million) since a day ago — Serbia: +1722 cases (now 757617), +9 deaths (now 7266), +9503 tests (now 5.0 million) since a day ago [... want %more?]16:07
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: New COVID variant detected in South Africa, most mutated variant so far → https://is.gd/uFT9SR16:11
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Hospitalizations in 8 states, >250 hospitals, during the US Delta wave"For June 27 - July 24, hospitalization rates were ≥10 times higher in unvaccinated persons compared with vaccinated persons for all age groups across all weeks"https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.27.21262356v1 #VaccinesWork → https://is.gd/oQutKl16:32
BrainstormUpdates for Qatar: +179 cases (now 232366), +6126 tests (now 2.5 million) since a day ago16:32
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israel offers COVID booster shot to all eligible for vaccine → https://is.gd/r4AwSK17:03
BrainstormNew from LitCovid: (news): Mesenchymal stem cells in SARS-CoV-2 infection: A hype or hope. → https://is.gd/X4DzSv17:14
de-factoLooking at COVID ICU ventialations in Germany17:33
de-facto.title https://www.intensivregister.de/#/aktuelle-lage/zeitreihen17:33
Brainstormde-facto: From www.intensivregister.de: DIVI Intensivregister17:33
de-factoToday 2021-08-29 485 compared to 2021-01-04 3211 is ~ 1/6.617:33
de-factoHow many doubling times are that? Log2(3211/485) ~ 2.72 doubling times to reach the niveau of 2021-01-04 with 3211 COVID cases on ICU ventilation17:33
de-factoHow long is one doubling time? Lets look at the current trends: 2021-08-01 we had 184 ventilations, today 2021-08-29 already 48517:34
de-factoAssuming exponential growth N(t) = N(t0) * 2 ^ ((t - t0)/t2) hence doubling time t2 = (t - t0) * Log2(2) / Log2(N(t) / N(t0))17:34
de-factoWe can calculate t2 = (29 - 1) * log2(2) / log2(485/184) ~ 20 days to double the number of ventilations17:34
BrainstormUpdates for Cuba: +6277 cases (now 640438), +77 deaths (now 5144), +47764 tests (now 7.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Myanmar: +3166 cases (now 392300), +106 deaths (now 15183), +29127 tests (now 3.5 million) since 23 hours ago17:35
de-factoOk so how many days till surpassing the peak of 2021-01-04 with 3211 ventilations? it takes 2.72 * t2 = 2.72 * 20 ~ 54 days that would be 2021-10-2217:35
de-factoComparing last years value: 2020-10-22 we had 459 ventilations, hence if we would get 3211 ventilations at that date in year 2021 it would be 3211/459 ~ 7-fold as bad17:35
de-factoThis has to be stopped by force.17:35
trbpforce? ;)17:35
trbpthat are german numbers you are citing, are they not?17:36
trbpwould be enough if the med-system would work as it was 40+ years ago, i guess...17:37
de-factoYes the numbers for Germany, the trends just can not be tolerated to continue like that17:38
de-factowe urgently need non-pharmaceutical interventions17:38
trbpde-facto: i guess you are thinking about new lockdown rounds?17:40
de-factowhat ever is necessary to break this exponential growth of ICU ventilations must be done immediately17:41
de-factoif its not done in time we will see what happens when the healthcare system is overwhelmed this winter in Germany17:43
de-factoLast year it *began* with the steep growth in ICU ventilations mid of October, so if we are alread 7-fold as bad this year this will be apocalyptic17:44
chile09[m]n-95/99 masks + Ivermectin + open the windows in buildings17:45
chile09[m]rapid antigen testing + monoclonal antibodies17:46
de-factoAnd quite frankly, removing incidence limits, making testing not free anymore etc does NOT help with containing this horrible trend17:46
trbpchile09[m]: besides ivermectin and your antibods all are set in germany afaik17:47
trbpi doubt that ivermectin and the antibods would do a big difference17:47
de-factoI am pretty sure that those patients that receive ICU care get the latest and greatest treatment methods available, still ending up on ventilator is a VERY bad sign, afaik half of them dont survived that in 202017:48
de-factoabout half of the ICU patients end up on ventilator and about half of those in grave17:48
de-facto(those were the 2020 numbers, not sure how much it changed 2021)17:49
trbpde-facto: i am pretty sure that to get last and greatest treatment in a system where profit and market share are ruling is a bit too much trust...17:49
de-factoi can get pretty much any treatment i ask for and that for free (insurance will cover any medically approved methods, even if expensive)17:51
de-factothe healthcare system really does a very good job here, the problems are the infection rates17:52
de-factohence we must go back to restricting incidence at any costs17:52
de-factothere must be only one rule: R<117:52
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +43868 cases (now 6.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Italy: +5954 cases (now 4.5 million), +37 deaths (now 129093), +223086 tests (now 83.6 million) since 23 hours ago — Greece: +1581 cases (now 581315), +37 deaths (now 13581), +56515 tests (now 15.4 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?]17:59
Arsaneritat any costs?18:16
de-factoabsolutely18:19
ArsaneritThe aim justifies the means?18:22
ArsaneritWhen there's a contagious disease among farmed animals, humans tend to respond by killing all animals (of the same species) in a certain radius.18:22
de-factowhat ever is necessary to break this exponential growth of ICU ventilations must be done immediately18:23
trbp"an der rampe rechts"18:24
de-factousually that means stricter NPIs18:24
trbpsry for those not knowing german18:24
trbpand sry for that nazi stance18:24
trbpbut that sounds to bad at any cost18:25
trbps/to/too18:25
de-factono compromises can be made as any compromise is in favor of pathogen spread, we have to achieve R<1, preferably with the most efficient methods available to contain the spread18:26
trbpfor those who wonder what an der rampe rechts means, nazis sent jews on the ramp right or left...18:26
de-factoso especially we cant tolerate compromises being made for the elections, such as removing free testing etc18:26
trbplol de-facto we make compromises for the election but otherwise an der rampe rechts?18:27
de-factowe need much much more tests, otherwise we would need more restrictive containment18:27
trbpsry again to exaggerate18:27
ArsaneritYes, "at any cost" sounds too bad18:27
ArsaneritThe cure cannot be worse than the disease.18:28
ArsaneritIn sci-fi stories of mankind-ending pandemics the military shoot anyone breaking quarantine no-sight.  I would object such a measure.18:28
de-factoyou know what i mean, we cant tolerate compromises, because we already are much worse than last year18:29
ArsaneritYes, I know what you mean.18:29
ArsaneritI disagree with what you say (write), not with what you mean ;-)18:29
trbpwe need much more calming down, after coping here with my very own private oh sooo seldom sideeffects with cominarty 2nd dose i guess we should be a bit more taken back, all those panicing does not help nobody, that does not mean i am antivax but as i decided myself for the vax with complications, people anxious of getting ill should take their very own precautions18:29
de-factothat is why i took a look at the very worst case, ICU ventilations over time18:30
Arsaneritmy colleague claims he's still suffering from comirnaty side-effects after five weeks and that he has prohibited his teenage children from taking it (in Germany, teenagers need parental consent for the vaccine)18:30
de-factoif we can stop that with more vaccinations, great, but if we need more restrictive measures in terms of NPIs to accompany that, it must be done, regardless if elections come or not18:30
trbpArsanerit: after my own experience i do not doubt anymore such stories, though i accept that vaxing is wise but that rushing into any kind of shortminded solution is not...18:31
de-factoand i think that is the case, we are in urgent need for more NPIs18:31
de-factomaybe, if we massively increased testing, we could prevent that for some time, but since the contrary is the case we are in need for some NPIs that replace the missing tests18:32
ArsaneritI agree vaccinating is wise, but I think we shouldn't equate people doubting the wisdom of vaccinating all teenagers when herd immunity is out of reach anyway with crazy conspiracy theorists.18:32
trbpwell know can we again say, who cares rampe rechts for those little percentile with complications... but do we not do here use 2 different standards?18:32
ArsaneritHow are ICUs and casualty figures in UK, Netherlands, Denmark which don't have any restrictions and have had many cases before Germany did?18:32
trbpvax rampe rechts is ok, but virulent rampe rechts not?18:33
trbpin my eyes all selfmade we should have in all that countries enough beds and equipment18:33
trbpbut going years and years for full profit in med sector18:33
trbpnow all are whining18:34
de-factopoliticized scientific topics *always* will end up suboptimal.18:34
Arsaneritis it ethical and wise to discuss 3rd doses when people in Nigeria eagerly wait for their first?18:34
trbpput atop a mediocre little pandemic like that what we have here and all hail goes to those who panics loudest18:34
de-factowe dont even have enough first doses in Germany18:35
trbpde-facto: that is out dated data18:35
de-factolatest fit of 1st doses with a logistic function will end up at ~65%-ish18:35
trbpde-facto: we even cope to send those doses fast enough to other countries that are not taken/wanted by our population18:35
oneno[m]Horowitz: 15 studies that indicate natural immunity from prior infection is more robust than the COVID vaccines18:35
oneno[m]https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-15-studies-that-indicate-natural-immunity-from-prior-infection-is-more-robust-than-the-covid-vaccines18:35
oneno[m]These are NOT vaccines!18:35
de-facto.title https://imgur.com/a/I794kqS https://i.imgur.com/mliDkSj.jpeg src: https://impfdashboard.de/static/data/germany_vaccinations_timeseries_v2.tsv18:36
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: Vaccinated people as function of time - Album on Imgur18:36
Arsaneritde-facto: indeed, the rest either can't or don't want yet or don't want at all18:36
Arsaneritmany people are uncertain about vaccinating teenagers or children18:36
de-factoArsanerit, but the very very latest data points lay above the logistic fit, so maybe people change their mind18:37
de-factoaccumulated 1st dose (normalized to 1) is blue, vaccination rate in percent per day in yellow, residual (data minus fit) in green18:38
oneno[m]The coronavirus contact reports say the rushed, untested vaccines are dangerous.18:39
oneno[m]https://ca.figu.org/coronavirus.html18:39
Arsaneritde-facto: yes, but would that make enough of a difference to bring R<1?  From what I've understood, herd immunity with delta is not realistic?18:39
de-factooh and 100-fold that residual to make it visible18:39
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Coronavirus digest: Singapore is now the most vaccinated country → https://is.gd/Ud5Uhp18:39
de-factoArsanerit, nope it would not reach R<1 alone, its just one factor in containment together with NPIs18:39
Arsaneritde-facto: isn't the increase due to the Stiko recommending vaccines for 12-17 yo18:39
de-factoand it lowers the portion of infections ending up in ICU and on ventilations18:39
ArsaneritI mean the latest data points laying above the logistic fit18:40
de-factoArsanerit, hmm interesting theory, maybe that could be the case indeed18:40
Arsaneritmaybe there's data per age group to test this?18:40
oneno[m]What about therapeutics like Ivermectin that has demonstrated 90% plus reduction in deaths and hosputalizations?18:41
oneno[m]Can the WHO, CDC, NIAID, governmental organizations be trusted with the data they publish favoring vaccines?18:42
de-factoyes because its independently and constantly monitored worldwide in many countries, and they do know that18:43
de-factothere are tons of papers independently published on preprint servers etc, so any falsified data would appear as a red light in front of the eyes of international scientific community, hence kill the reputation of the publisher18:44
Arsaneritmy colleagues were wondering if the changed advice from stiko is the result of political pressure18:45
de-factoso reputable organizations would not do such things, because they would ruin themselves18:45
Arsaneritas stiko continued to not recommend teenage vaccinations for a while longer than others18:45
de-factoArsanerit, no STIKO did not change the advice18:45
Arsaneritoh, then I misunderstood18:45
de-factothey said before that they did not have enough data yet18:45
Arsaneritah ok18:46
oneno[m]The WHO, CDC. NIAID have been caught lying about HCQ and Ivermectin studies forcing them to list the two as alternate treatments.18:46
de-factoso they basically said "wait until we got enough data points, but if you really want to, you can already vaccinated risk group regardless of our final recommendation"18:46
Arsaneritok18:47
de-factothey never said pro/contra vaccination of children before their final recommendation, they just said they are accumulating data, which is perfectly reasonable standpoint imho18:47
Arsaneritagreed18:47
ArsaneritI don't have a good answer when people say they worry about vaccinating teenagers due to unknown long-term effect of developing bodies.18:48
oneno[m]Take the COVID-19 Test to corroborate the BEAM coronavirus contact reports.18:48
oneno[m]https://theyflyblog.com/2020/09/new-online-covid-19-test/18:48
Arsaneritwhat is BEAM?18:48
oneno[m]Billy Eduard Albert Meier (BEAM)18:48
pwr22I have been summoned18:50
oneno[m]Dr. Pierre Kory (MD) and Frontline Covid Critical Care has testified before the US Senate Committee on the effectiveness of Ivermectin, the MATH+ protocol, and the I-MASK+ protocol18:51
oneno[m]https://covid19criticalcare.com/18:51
pwr22<oneno[m]> "The WHO, CDC. NIAID have been ca" <- I'm not sure they have. Could you link to some reputable evidence on it?18:51
oneno[m]FLCCC ALLIANCE NEWS CONFERENCE18:53
oneno[m]December 4, 10:30 am (CST) at United Memorial Medical Center in Houston, Texas18:53
oneno[m]https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/videos-and-tutorials-on-ivermectin/electronic-press-kit-dec-4-2020/18:53
pwr22We don't really allow conspiracy level / non-evidence based "alternative facts" to be presented equally with the stuff that that's more substantiated in this room18:53
oneno[m]Neither the FLCCC nor BEAM are conspiracy.18:54
oneno[m]Looking at CDC site for HCQ and Ivermecting.18:54
oneno[m]The Latest Results of Ivermectin’s Success in Treating Outbreaks of COVID-1918:55
oneno[m]https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/epidemiologic-analyses-on-covid19-and-ivermectin/18:55
oneno[m] * The Latest Results of Ivermectin’s Success in Treating Outbreaks of COVID-1918:55
oneno[m]https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/epidemiologic-analyses-on-covid19-and-ivermectin18:55
oneno[m] * Looking at CDC site for HCQ and Ivermecting18:56
oneno[m] * Looking at CDC site for HCQ and Ivermectin.18:56
Arsaneritis covid19criticalcare.com peer reviewed?18:57
pwr22oneno: no link spam please18:58
oneno[m]Information to Share With Your Doctor18:58
oneno[m]https://covid19criticalcare.com/guide-for-this-website/take-action-and-share-the-infos-with-your-doctor/18:58
pwr22Ok ban time it is then18:58
Raf[m]It's not a manuscript, it's a consortium of hospitals that developed a treatment protocol based off research18:58
Raf[m]Yeah these links are a bit too much18:58
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Breakthrough COVID cases: Uncommon and often mild, but not always → https://is.gd/IQvBDu19:00
BrainstormUpdates for Chile: +595 cases (now 1.6 million), +44 deaths (now 36885), +56139 tests (now 20.2 million) since a day ago — Moldova: +204 cases (now 266988), +4 deaths (now 6394), +3218 tests (now 1.6 million) since a day ago19:02
TimvdeArsanerit: looking at the contents of that site, I'm pretty sure it's not :P19:05
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Israel's booster shot program opened to all age ≥12, 5 months out https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/covid-19-in-israel-number-of-serious-patients-rises-again-hospital-strike-goes-on-678025"those who received a booster are ten times more protected from infection and serious symptoms compared to those who just got two [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/puErvo19:21
BrainstormUpdates for Morocco: +3841 cases (now 853373), +76 deaths (now 12437), +29077 tests (now 8.9 million) since 22 hours ago19:39
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: "This brings vaccine efficacy for booster-vaccinated individuals to ~95%, similar to the original "fresh" vaccine efficacy reported agains the Alpha strain""For people with >12-days lag btwn the booster vaxx &severe illness...decreased relative risk of severe disease 15.5 fold" → https://is.gd/oshLVg19:42
BrainstormUpdates for Jamaica: +929 cases (now 66663), +21 deaths (now 1504), +2669 tests (now 545088) since a day ago20:04
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New COVID variant detected in South Africa, most mutated variant so far → https://is.gd/UmXW9C20:14
LjL"Scientists first detected C.1.2 in May 2021, finding that it was descended from C.1, which scientists found surprising as C.1 had last been detected in January."  :\20:27
LjL"The study found consistent increases in the number of C.1.2 genomes in South Africa on a monthly basis, rising from 0.2% of genomes sequenced in May to 1.6% in June and then to 2% in July, similar to the increases seen with the Beta and Delta variants there."20:39
LjL"The study also found that the C.1.2 lineage has a mutation rate of about 41.8 mutations per year, which is nearly twice as fast as the current global mutation rate of the other variants."20:39
de-facto.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.20.21262342v221:01
Brainstormde-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: The continuous evolution of SARS-CoV-2 in South Africa: a new lineage with rapid accumulation of mutations of concern and global detection | medRxiv21:01
BrainstormUpdates for South Africa: +7740 cases (now 2.8 million), +134 deaths (now 81595), +45534 tests (now 16.4 million) since a day ago21:06
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Another new Israeli preprint quantifies the extent to waning immunity, for both infections and severe illness, by age group. Bottom figure for age > 60, the earliest group to receive vaccinationhttps://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/reports/vaccine-efficacy-safety-follow-up-committee/he/files_publications_corona_immunity-waning-082021.pdfhttps://is.gd/DKdrzb21:17
twomoonhello trbp21:19
twomoonhow are you doing?21:19
BrainstormUpdates for France: +60 deaths (now 114291) since 23 hours ago21:31
Raf[m]<pwr22> "But this one should not quote..." <- Still quotes for me. I'm not sure what the difference is supposed to look like21:35
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: The preliminary findings from Israel today of the booster >10-fold reduction of severe illness aligns with the what has been established for primary vaccination efficacy and neutralizing level antibodies → https://is.gd/UmpxRL22:20
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: Here are the Pfizer neutralizing antibody results from a 306 participant study of their booster (otherwise unpublished to date), >3 times the levels of 2nd dose response, with 1 month follow-up (median follow-up time 2.6 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/FmJLAy23:03
BrainstormUpdates for N. Cyprus: +476 cases (now 16151), +7 deaths (now 59) since 2 days ago — Djibouti: +13 cases (now 11741) since a day ago23:10
BrainstormUpdates for Togo: +339 cases (now 21037), +3 deaths (now 180) since a day ago23:35
BrainstormNew from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Stop the dreaming. We should be going after this flat out. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/04/vaccines-can-protect-against-many-coronaviruses-could-prevent-another-pandemic @ScienceMagazine @sciencecohen → https://is.gd/QelBTR23:45

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