| dTal | talk about swallowing a spider to catch a fly | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nixonix | i think they can do it with one cycle only. so that cells will produce virions that can infect other cells, but then those cant produce viable viruses anymore (just duds for immune reaction and protection) | 00:01 |
| nixonix | Medicago had problems in their canadian trials. when vaccines are now available, people jump off the trial and get vaccinated with mrna | 00:04 |
| nixonix | thats increasing problem with all the trials. what they going to do when its available everywhere, at least some chinese vax? | 00:04 |
| nixonix | no more novel sars2 vaccines? | 00:05 |
| LjL | "The vaccine differs from other COVID-19 vaccines by presenting the entire COVID-19 spike protein to the body's immune system." ← don't other vaccines...? | 00:05 |
| LjL | ( https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/vaccines/brilife-vaccine ) | 00:06 |
| nixonix | i checked medicagos twitter, that offered no information other than how their vaccine is plant based, and "answers" to fake questions | 00:06 |
| LjL | nixonix, Derek Lowe predicted that to be a problem months ago when we had no deployed vaccines yet. maybe if experimental vaccines are variant-specific, that will entice more people | 00:08 |
| dTal | LjL: no, other vaccines use bits of it iirc? | 00:09 |
| LjL | the pages i'm reading (i'm no tfinding a lot) don't suggest this NRx vaccine is "self-propagating", so maybe it's just one cycle, but it's just not clear to me | 00:09 |
| LjL | dTal, only the RBD? color me ignorant | 00:10 |
| nixonix | no, most and all the western approved use the whole S, with those proline substitutions. so theres some mistake there. maybe they have something else exceptional, ill have a look if we find a good description | 00:10 |
| nixonix | medicago avoid mentioning they use tobacco plant for protein production in their twitter, just "plant" and pictures. but its interesting anyway, VLP with adjuvant. they tested it with Dynavax's CpG (which needs alum as a booster, if i recall), and GSK's infamous AS03, and seemed to end up using the latter | 00:12 |
| LjL | the "self-propagating" claim seems to come from this press release https://www.nrxpharma.com/nrx-pharmaceuticals-announces-partnership-with-the-israel-institute-for-biological-research-to-complete-development-and-commercialization-of-brilife-covid-vaccine/ | 00:12 |
| nixonix | so that might provide more lasting immunity | 00:12 |
| LjL | but if i just google "self-propagating vaccine", it seems to be exactly what i think it would be | 00:13 |
| nixonix | its just another live-attenuated viral vector vaccine | 00:15 |
| LjL | conspiracy theory mode on: i think it sounds a bit like they're keeping the specifics of the "self-propagating" part a bit hush-hush so they don't find too much opposition before they are already using it on people and we all realize what it is | 00:15 |
| LjL | nixonix, is it attenuated though? | 00:16 |
| nixonix | sure | 00:16 |
| dTal | if it's not attentuated that's just "giving people covid" | 00:16 |
| LjL | no | 00:16 |
| LjL | because it's not COVID | 00:16 |
| LjL | it's a VSV, an animal virus, with the S-protein tacked on | 00:16 |
| twomoon | lol ljl this is getting freaky | 00:16 |
| nixonix | some of them are viable, and with mutations, the infection will slow down and ends eventually | 00:17 |
| LjL | %wik vesicular stomatitis virus | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Indiana vesiculovirus, formerly Vesicular stomatitis Indiana virus (VSIV or VSV) is a virus in the family Rhabdoviridae; the well-known Rabies lyssavirus belongs to the same family. VSIV can infect insects, cattle, horses and pigs. It has particular importance to farmers in certain regions of the [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_vesiculovirus | 00:17 |
| LjL | %wik vescicular stomatitis virus | 00:17 |
| nixonix | its viral vector, not live-attenuated sars2 | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, no such article found on the English Wikipedia | 00:17 |
| dTal | I see | 00:17 |
| dTal | surely that's frightfully irresponsible | 00:17 |
| LjL | dTal, possibly less irresponsible than using actual COVID...? | 00:17 |
| dTal | no, I mean | 00:18 |
| dTal | you're training the immune system that the thing with the spike protein is a totally different thing than it really is | 00:18 |
| LjL | dTal, just like with adenovirus vector vaccines? | 00:18 |
| LjL | it's an adenovirus, with the S-protein tacked on it | 00:18 |
| dTal | very possibly | 00:18 |
| LjL | the difference appears to be that the adenovirus has its self-reproduction machine stripped off | 00:18 |
| LjL | machinery | 00:19 |
| LjL | dTal, well then AZ and J&J would be irresponsible | 00:19 |
| dTal | mumble original antigenic sin | 00:19 |
| LjL | *shrug* | 00:19 |
| nixonix | lol | 00:19 |
| dTal | "aha, a spike protein - fire up the adenovirus liquifiers, boys!" | 00:20 |
| nixonix | lots of interesting vaccines in design. too bad very few of them gets financing for trials (that are harder and harder to make), not to mention large trials, and then theres than manufacturing problem even if they pull those through | 00:21 |
| de-facto | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methemoglobin <-- interesting, can that somehow be related to happy hypoxics? | 00:21 |
| de-facto | .title | 00:21 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Methemoglobin - Wikipedia | 00:21 |
| LjL | well, i really can't say whether that's a bad idea, but AZ and J&J have been widely accepted. the big difference here *would* be that... we don't have to accept it? | 00:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Ivermectin: Israeli scientist says COVID-19 could be treated for $1/day - WHO caution against → https://is.gd/xVT3J5 | 00:22 |
| de-facto | btw that also would have drastically different magnetic properties | 00:22 |
| nixonix | that jpost article? | 00:22 |
| de-facto | " A higher level of methemoglobin will tend to cause a pulse oximeter to read closer to 85% regardless of the true level of oxygen saturation." | 00:22 |
| nixonix | no. i think jpost had article with similar headline | 00:22 |
| dTal | de-facto: you're saying covid causes 5g? | 00:23 |
| nixonix | yep. thanks to melatonin, i remember everything: https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-scientist-says-covid-19-could-be-treated-for-under-1day-675612 | 00:23 |
| nixonix | sorry, l-theanine | 00:23 |
| LjL | de-facto, but why would a COVID patient get elevated methemoglobin? | 00:23 |
| de-facto | indeed that is somehow related | 00:24 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7373357/ | 00:24 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Unexplained Methemoglobinemia in Coronavirus Disease 2019: A Case Report | 00:24 |
| LjL | oh okay then | 00:24 |
| LjL | de-facto, so would this mean that, in reality, these people reading 85%-ish *do* have okay oxygen saturation (at least potentially)? | 00:24 |
| de-facto | i have no idea | 00:24 |
| dTal | or they're way worse | 00:24 |
| LjL | archpc, are you still alive? | 00:24 |
| dTal | archpc was "improving" last we heard, fingers crossed | 00:25 |
| de-facto | but i wonder the following: if methemoglobin somehow is caused by covid, how would that influence MRI imaging? | 00:26 |
| LjL | ah he said saturation rose to 90% | 00:26 |
| de-facto | because it probably would influence T1 relaxation times of the protons in the water of the blood | 00:26 |
| LjL | that can't be a bad sign | 00:26 |
| de-facto | could that somehow correlate with inflammation or viral load or whatever the mechanism is that leads to its building up, hence spacially separate those regions with increased T1 relaxation times in MR-imaging? | 00:27 |
| de-facto | (careful complete speculation!) | 00:28 |
| de-facto | .title https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-details/60c74f229abda2bdf3f8d7ae | 00:29 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From chemrxiv.org: COVID-19: Attacks the 1-Beta Chain of Hemoglobin and Captures the Porphyrin to Inhibit Human Heme Metabolism | Biological and Medicinal Chemistry | ChemRxiv | Cambridge Open Engage | 00:29 |
| de-facto | very very interesting | 00:30 |
| pwr22 | <dTal> "which sounds.... idk, kinda like..." <- I am legend 😛 | 00:32 |
| de-facto | .title https://radiopaedia.org/articles/haemorrhage-on-mri | 00:32 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From radiopaedia.org: Hemorrhage on MRI | Radiology Reference Article | Radiopaedia.org | 00:32 |
| de-facto | .title https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/abs/10.1148/radiology.189.1.8372185 | 00:32 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From pubs.rsna.org: MR appearance of hemorrhage in the brain. | Radiology | 00:32 |
| de-facto | maybe that somehow also is related to the macrophages they eat up the iron usually | 00:34 |
| de-facto | arent those strongly attracted by the regions where viral replication happened? | 00:35 |
| de-facto | btw they even could be "marked" by superferromagnetic nano particles (yet its delayed cytotoxic for them) | 00:36 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0142961210003790 | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.sciencedirect.com: The effect of carboxydextran-coated superparamagnetic iron oxide nanoparticles on c-Jun N-terminal kinase-mediated apoptosis in human macrophages - ScienceDirect | 00:36 |
| dTal | sounds an awful lot like microchips | 00:37 |
| de-facto | my question would be: can those effects somehow be employed to get a realtime image of COVID via MR-Imaging | 00:37 |
| pwr22 | LjL: do the adenoviruses actually have the spike tacked on or do they encode for the spike in their genetic material so your cells create and present the spike? | 00:37 |
| pwr22 | I was lead to believe in this room before that it is the latter | 00:38 |
| pwr22 | Which would make them different to active reproducing virus with the spike on it too | 00:38 |
| de-facto | lol and how would vaccine show up on such images? | 00:39 |
| de-facto | like could the spike from vaccines also have localized effects on hemoglobin and its magnetic properties? | 00:39 |
| pwr22 | And would putting a magnetic bracelet on fix these effects? 🤔 | 00:40 |
| pwr22 | Time to start a shop | 00:40 |
| de-facto | hehe :) | 00:40 |
| pwr22 | 💰️ | 00:40 |
| de-facto | yeah but really, i wonder if any contrast change in T1/T2 relaxation times could be seen in MR-imaging | 00:41 |
| pwr22 | Common causes of elevated methemoglobin: chloroquine 🤣 | 00:42 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7955570/ | 00:43 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Chest MRI of patients with COVID-19 | 00:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: Should antibody levels be used to guide booster shots?https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-858160/v1A new preprint poses that question, showing marked heterogeneity in 1,060 people after vaccination or prior covid(neutralizing antibody level not measured) → https://is.gd/fBKOFT | 00:43 |
| LjL | pwr22, it's the latter, but i don't really know whether it's the former or the latter in the case of this mysterious vaccine either, i was using "tacked on" very loosely | 00:44 |
| pwr22 | Sure | 00:45 |
| nixonix | all new to me, but is that meth.. something related to drugs they used in the case in that first paper, or something thats common for severe cases? | 00:49 |
| pwr22 | methemoglobin? | 00:51 |
| nixonix | Methemoglobinemia is a condition of elevated methemoglobin in the blood - that was in defactos first link | 00:52 |
| nixonix | btw, what happened to hyaluronan in lungs and hypotheses around it? that they published a few papers last fall | 00:53 |
| pwr22 | de-facto posts so many papers that I'm not sure what the first one is 😛 | 00:53 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/485636 | 00:53 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.eurekalert.org: Liquid gel in COVID patients' lungs makes way | EurekAlert! | 00:53 |
| LjL | %title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7373357/ | 00:53 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Unexplained Methemoglobinemia in Coronavirus Disease 2019: A Case Report | 00:53 |
| pwr22 | Thanks | 00:54 |
| nixonix | i was about forgotten those jelly lungs. i wonder if they mechanisms suggested then were correct, and treatments | 00:54 |
| pwr22 | > Ivermectin, a drug used to fight parasites in third-world countries, could help reduce the length of infection for people who contract coronavirus for less than a $1 a day, according to recent research by Sheba Medical Center in Tel Hashomer. | 00:54 |
| pwr22 | I tend not to follow medical advice from catfood manufacturers 😛 | 00:54 |
| LjL | i forgot Brainstorm is still not filing stuff that gets posted with %title (as opposed to .title) into ##coronalinks :( not even sure how to fix that though | 00:55 |
| * pwr22 uploaded an image: (290KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/shortestpath.dev/fTsRlfOaFVCxfNPJtLxvUbSt/image.png > | 00:55 | |
| pwr22 | > Since hyaluronan can bind large amounts of water in its web of long molecules, it forms a jelly-like substance. And it is this process that runs riot in the alveoli of COVID-19 patients' lungs resulting in the patient needing ventilator care and, in worst case, dies from respiratory failure. | 00:59 |
| pwr22 | I thought that was usually a cytokine storm? Or are they implying cytokine storms cause this jelly build up which causes death? Or are they both different things? If so I don't like this type of universal statement | 01:00 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=(Methemoglobin)+AND+COVID | 01:00 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: (Methemoglobin) AND COVID - PMC - NCBI | 01:00 |
| pwr22 | Oh no, de-facto is now posting meta-papers. Search's for papers! | 01:01 |
| pwr22 | s/Search's/Searches/ | 01:01 |
| pwr22 | How will I ever keep up 😛 | 01:01 |
| pwr22 | > Even cortisone reduces the production of hyaluronan. In a British study, preliminary data shows positive effects on treatments with the cortisone drug Dexamethasone in severely ill COVID-19 patients. | 01:02 |
| pwr22 | Cortisone would also help many cases where hyaluronan isn't involved | 01:02 |
| pwr22 | Again, more exclusive absolute statements | 01:02 |
| pwr22 | That's like the logic "Cortisone helps with my dermatitis therefore my it is caused by hyaluronan" | 01:03 |
| nixonix | somehow that jelly just materlializes out of thin air, afaik. but dex seems to help, so maybe they are good | 01:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: RNA vaccines seem to produce very different antibody levels → https://is.gd/t50ofP | 01:04 |
| pwr22 | > "It has previously been assumed that the promising preliminary results would be linked to the general anti-inflammatory properties of cortisone, but in addition to those beliefs, cortisone may also reduce the production of hyaluronan, which may reduce the amount of jelly in the lungs," says Urban Hellman. | 01:05 |
| pwr22 | Finally a statement that doesn't pretend false certainty | 01:05 |
| pwr22 | Sounds interesting but more research would be needed | 01:05 |
| pwr22 | Like how do they know those portions of the lung are just fucked and not working and this is a normal part of the wound healing process? | 01:05 |
| pwr22 | It's a thing in connective tissue right? Healing forms connective tissue as part of scarring | 01:06 |
| nixonix | it seems that jelly, or excess amounts, appear just for some patients. i just remembered and noticed i havent head about the thing since last fall | 01:06 |
| rpifan | but hyaluorinic acid is used to fill in wrinkles | 01:07 |
| pwr22 | I might be wrong but isn't in in contact lens suspension too? | 01:07 |
| nixonix | yeah, it binds large amounts of water, thuse lots of jelly | 01:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Syria: +136 cases (now 27915), +6 deaths (now 2013) since a day ago — Guatemala: +4478 cases (now 470277), +40 deaths (now 11926), +13544 tests (now 2.2 million) since a day ago — Kenya: +565 cases (now 235863), +6 deaths (now 4726), +4494 tests (now 2.4 million) since a day ago | 01:10 |
| de-facto | btw it seems ascorbic acid helps with that condition | 01:11 |
| LjL | that Ars Technica commentary... we "may" be placing too much emphasis on antibodies and Moderna and Pfizer "may" not elicit quite the same ones and the 3rd booster "may" just be making them spike without adding any protection... but what are we meant to do anyway? Israel is having way too many deaths for a vaccinated country, and antibodies or not, the protection *does* seem to wane away | 01:11 |
| nixonix | there seem to be lots of study points i havent even heard about, especially for treatment. i wonder which of those seem relevant, so they have high chances for some new treatment that work for severe cases | 01:12 |
| de-facto | somehow also relates to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose-6-phosphate_dehydrogenase_deficiency | 01:12 |
| de-facto | .title | 01:12 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency - Wikipedia | 01:12 |
| pwr22 | LjL: Aggressively push for and fund more vaccines again | 01:13 |
| pwr22 | Targeting the new variants | 01:13 |
| pwr22 | Compared to the previous effort its like we aren't even trying | 01:13 |
| xrogaan | It seems to me that what is tangibly protecting people are proper behaviors and not so much the immunity itself. Not that it doesn't help, mind you, because it does help being vaccinated, but not if you're body is weakened anyway. | 01:13 |
| pwr22 | xrogaan: It still helps if you're weakened, but you might just have a bad time. But it always helps 🤔 | 01:14 |
| pwr22 | * might just still have a | 01:14 |
| LjL | pwr22, correction: "it's like Pfizer isn't even trying" | 01:14 |
| pwr22 | I was thinking recently, all the first gen vaccines were basically government funded right and then just licensed to pharma for production and distribution | 01:15 |
| LjL | maybe someone else could do it if the patents had been waived | 01:15 |
| pwr22 | Are there any equivalent funding efforts by governments going on for gen 2 vaccines? | 01:15 |
| LjL | but Bill Gates and friends convinced everyone not to waive them, i seem to understand | 01:15 |
| xrogaan | governments are kind of broke. | 01:15 |
| pwr22 | I mean come on, we're are at like gen 4 of covid at least by whatever naming scheme you pick | 01:16 |
| nixonix | the most common enzyme defficiency, but rare in finland | 01:16 |
| pwr22 | We are falling behind. No surprise things are going to shit again | 01:16 |
| pwr22 | And we have decided that we aren't behind and our vaccines work better than they do so we aren't curbing our behaviours either | 01:16 |
| pwr22 | It frustrates and angers me so much | 01:16 |
| xrogaan | Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the variants coming from places of the globe that are poorly vaccinated? | 01:17 |
| pwr22 | </rant> | 01:17 |
| de-facto | "To treat the elevated MetHb, methylene blue, ascorbic acid and N-acetyl cysteine were administered. The authors concluded that it is crucial to treat the elevated MetHb in critically ill COVID-19 patients." | 01:17 |
| pwr22 | xrogaan: unsure in all cases, delta came out of india but india did have vaccination programs but also had some problems with them | 01:17 |
| nixonix | btw i think delta-spike would probably increase the protection of these vaccines, maybe a lot. but just not as much as it was like current ones vs wuhan 1.0, since there are lots of immune evasion mutations outside of spike involved (especially with variants like 1.1.7) | 01:18 |
| nixonix | maybe they think if they bring i to the market too early, newly vaccinated are fine with one dose. when they bring it late, they need 3 or 4. profit | 01:19 |
| pwr22 | LjL: Fucking BillyG and his big pharma 3: pfizer, moderna, astrazeneca | 01:19 |
| nixonix | one dose or *two, that was supposed to be | 01:19 |
| xrogaan | India is also one of the places that are difficult to inoculate. Cities are fine, the issue is with all the rest (as it's kind of big). | 01:19 |
| LjL | not sure if mocking me | 01:20 |
| pwr22 | nixonix: sure, we won't get perfect protection but targeting successful / ancestors of new variants further along the line is gonna get us better protection than targeting the ancient strains | 01:20 |
| pwr22 | LjL: I'm not, I just thought of a rhyme 😛 | 01:21 |
| LjL | ##covid-rap | 01:21 |
| pwr22 | But, I just learn that rhyme and rhythm are not homographs | 01:22 |
| p0indexter | down w copd...yo | 01:23 |
| pwr22 | And that those aren't homonyms | 01:23 |
| pwr22 | Because homonyms also include homophones | 01:23 |
| pwr22 | fml | 01:23 |
| rpifan | lol | 01:23 |
| nixonix | didnt they just pump up the prizes? if the new vaccines cant get their stuff manufactured, or even trialled to see if they are effective, they could just sell us a dose 2 times per year, with price increasing exponentially | 01:23 |
| nixonix | until we are all poor | 01:24 |
| LjL | pwr22, homonyms include *some* homophones | 01:24 |
| nixonix | prices | 01:24 |
| pwr22 | Just going by what wiki said, don't shoot the messenger :P | 01:24 |
| pwr22 | I may have misread | 01:24 |
| pwr22 | In which case, also don't shoot the reader | 01:24 |
| LjL | pwr22, actually you're right, i was thinking of homographs. homophones and homographs are types of homonyms. | 01:25 |
| pwr22 | nixonix: yeah, they aren't going to produce anything until they are paid to do so again IMO. And we need to be shitting out these vaccines like a kid who's found his way into the ex-lax chocolate! | 01:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: New Zealand COVID-19 cases drop for second day amid lockdowns | 31AUG21 → https://is.gd/idyVIl | 01:25 |
| pwr22 | I think "their, there, they're" must be homophones and homographs | 01:26 |
| nixonix | even novavax with very good results cant get their shit produced. alternative approach, which could be better (lasting-wise), but now we will never know | 01:26 |
| pwr22 | So homonynist homonyms | 01:27 |
| pwr22 | * So the homonynist homonyms | 01:27 |
| LjL | if you want english spelling to make any sense i'm afraid you have to redo it from scratch | 01:27 |
| LjL | and after you've done it, no one will care | 01:28 |
| nixonix | sanofin is quite similar, but their v1 failed. which btw caused eu to delay their shopping for mrna vaccines, as they wanted to buy french vaccine. because of that delay, millions died | 01:28 |
| pwr22 | I'm way too invested in english at this point | 01:28 |
| nixonix | thousands? many thousands | 01:28 |
| de-facto | "MetHb can have proinflammatory properties. For example, it activates the NF-κB pathway in endothelial cells associated with chemokine (IL-8) and cytokine (IL-6) production" | 01:28 |
| de-facto | "The activation of the NF-κB and MAPK pathways with subsequent release of the chemokines IL-8 and the chemokine monocyte chemoattractant protein-1 (MCP-1) has also been observed in endothelial cells exposed to MetHb" | 01:29 |
| * pwr22 removes the MetHb record from the de-facto record player 😛 | 01:29 | |
| nixonix | now im reading words that look familiar (that meth-thinga was totally new to me, as were those MRI bleeding things) | 01:29 |
| pwr22 | Or maybe I'll just turn it over to side B? | 01:29 |
| de-facto | "This underlines that an elevation of MetHb in the blood has an effect on cytokine/chemokine production—a fact that might be of particular relevance for COVID-19 since a “cytokine storm” has been observed in severe courses of the disease " | 01:29 |
| pwr22 | Side B it is | 01:29 |
| de-facto | "At the same time, it must also be borne in mind that hypoxia also causes the production of cytokines and cytokines, like IL-8 and IL-6" | 01:29 |
| LjL | pwr22, my walkman's autoreverse gets stuck :( | 01:30 |
| LjL | and my other walkman just acts randomly | 01:30 |
| pwr22 | ha ha | 01:30 |
| pwr22 | I remember playing a CD as a kid and recording it to tape by putting the player/recorder in front of the speaker 🤦♂️ | 01:31 |
| de-facto | ɐᴉɯǝuᴉqoןƃoɯǝɥʇǝɯ | 01:31 |
| pwr22 | ha ha | 01:31 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: seems like a bit of a chicken and egg situation | 01:32 |
| LjL | ByeFi | 01:33 |
| nixonix | just read that arstechnica article. they forget that modernas standard interval is 4 weeks, pfizers 3 | 01:40 |
| nixonix | that might explain the difference, but if not, at least part of it | 01:40 |
| nixonix | why havent brits released ab titers and efficacy data on pfizer vs moderna? i think they did after the 1st dose, but after 2nd? and waning effect after seveal months too | 01:42 |
| nixonix | and comparisons 3-4 weeks early vaccinated vs 12 weeks | 01:43 |
| nixonix | they only compared 6-9 weeks vs 12, which was about the same | 01:44 |
| LjL | some British studies/reports stated they simply left out Moderna because they had too few datapoints | 01:44 |
| nixonix | but those couple more weeks are probably what matters. so releasing that, other countries that still do 3-4 weeks could have increased the interval, better protection, less cases, less damage. instead they didnt... | 01:45 |
| de-facto | .title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyl_nitrite | 01:45 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Amyl nitrite - Wikipedia | 01:45 |
| nixonix | yeah, but all they had. then from CI you can see if it shows something or not | 01:45 |
| nixonix | isnt that that huffing stuff? | 01:46 |
| de-facto | "Amyl nitrite is sometimes used as an antidote for cyanide poisoning. It can act as an oxidant, to induce the formation of methemoglobin. Methemoglobin in turn can sequester cyanide as cyanomethemoglobin" | 01:47 |
| nixonix | what was it that they thought could help for oxidative stress, nitric oxide? similar effect? | 01:47 |
| de-facto | it seems it created MetHb | 01:48 |
| de-facto | the amyl nitrite | 01:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/859486 | 01:49 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.eurekalert.org: Nitric oxide a possible treatment for COVID-1 | EurekAlert! | 01:49 |
| nixonix | it seems i still read something while i tried to be on break of this rona stuff in the fall, since i remember reading that | 01:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ Open: Intermarriage and COVID-19 mortality among immigrants. A population-based cohort study from Sweden: Objectives To evaluate the role of language proficiency and institutional awareness in explaining excess COVID-19 mortality among immigrants. Design Cohort study with follow-up between 12 March 2020 and 23 February 2021. Setting [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/tP4CGP | 01:57 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Guadeloupe: +3988 cases (now 49381), +36 deaths (now 539), +29284 tests (now 398899) since 18 hours ago | 01:59 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.18.456891v1.full | 02:02 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.biorxiv.org: Neutralising antibodies against the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant induced by Alhydroxyquim-II-adjuvanted trimeric spike antigens | bioRxiv | 02:02 |
| nixonix | "CoVac-II) resulted in high-titre NAbs in mice, with no decay in responses over an 8-month period | 02:04 |
| nixonix | adjuvanted (some alumn compound, with apparently Th-balance adjusting effects). were i right, or am i right all the time? | 02:04 |
| de-facto | .title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_b5_reductase | 02:08 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Cytochrome b5 reductase - Wikipedia | 02:08 |
| de-facto | "This enzyme can also reduce methemoglobin to normal hemoglobin, gaining it the inaccurate synonym methemoglobin reductase." | 02:12 |
| de-facto | could that be encoded in mRNA? | 02:13 |
| de-facto | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methemoglobinemia | 02:17 |
| nixonix | if cells can build it (better prove its beneficial in trials first) | 02:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: 🇳🇿 prepared for Delta with led to quick control of their Delta outbreak, 50 cases today410 days of the pandemic with ZERO community transmissionshttps://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-source-casesThanks for inputs by [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/f47NNm | 02:19 |
| nixonix | okay, another finding in that paper, when they used SA variant spike in the booster, there seemed to be no original antigenic sin, since it was effective (unless it appears with delay) | 02:20 |
| nixonix | but it was the booster after just the 1st dose of ancient spike | 02:20 |
| nixonix | "When compared to spike alone, AHQ-II increased Nab titres by approximately 1000-fold; this increase compares favourably to the effect seen with adjuvants Matrix-M (approximately 10-fold increase) and AS03 (approximately 500-fold) used in other SARS-CoV-2 subunit vaccines | 02:21 |
| nixonix | sweet jesus how strong are these new adjuvants, when as03 gave us narcolepsy! | 02:21 |
| nixonix | (with probable mimicry of that hypocretin-2 receptor in swine flu N) | 02:22 |
| nixonix | but better hope something like that isnt in sars2 S. or superantigen, which i cant remember if leonardi thought was in S-protein or some other place | 02:23 |
| nixonix | so how did they compare, similar mass used? if something is way stronger, maybe less is used then | 02:24 |
| LjL | %title https://wvmetronews.com/2021/08/28/truck-that-crashed-on-i-79-was-carrying-moderna-vaccine/ | 02:32 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From wvmetronews.com: UPDATE: I-79 reopens nearly 21 hours after vaccine truck crash - WV MetroNews | 02:32 |
| nixonix | pfizer said those metals etc they found in japan, were likely from the cap and due to incorrect use. did they trash the doses? | 02:35 |
| nixonix | pretty sure aussies want to buy them | 02:36 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-841479/v1 | 02:41 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.researchsquare.com: A Novel Betaretrovirus Discovered in Cattle With Neurological Disease and Encephalitis | Research Square | 02:41 |
| LjL | retrovirus *shudder* | 02:42 |
| nixonix | while prob not jumping to humans, if the connection is confirmed, shows what ronas can do | 02:42 |
| LjL | is a betaretrovirus a coronavirus? | 02:42 |
| nixonix | ah i misread. forget that link | 02:43 |
| nixonix | i thought it was another betarona | 02:43 |
| LjL | still, a retrovirus in animals very close to people doesn't make me happy | 02:44 |
| de-facto | retrovirus, writes itself in the dna of brain cells or what? | 02:45 |
| nixonix | yeah, no more crazy cows | 02:45 |
| de-facto | lovely | 02:45 |
| nixonix | it prob has reverse transcriptase, and integrates to dna | 02:45 |
| de-facto | yuck | 02:45 |
| LjL | i'm only vaguely familiar with one human retrovirus, and i know it to have caused immense suffering and remaining undefeated for decades | 02:46 |
| nixonix | while i pasted that tweet, i think showing ronavax works fine for hiv infected (i didnt understand it all, but it looked like), it seems also those with serious allergies are only rarely in risk for anaphylaxis | 02:49 |
| nixonix | or i think it was around 700 more often than others, but still rare | 02:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2783626 | 02:50 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From jamanetwork.com: Prevalence of Allergic Reactions After Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccination Among Adults With High Allergy Risk | Allergy and Clinical Immunology | JAMA Network Open | JAMA Network | 02:50 |
| nixonix | meaning they suit pretty much everybody fine. the problem isnt adverse reactions for maybe anybody, but that some people would need the 3rd, and soon after 2nd | 02:51 |
| nixonix | immunocompromised either automatic 3rd soon, or then their titers measured reliably. in france they have given 3rds since april for some | 02:52 |
| nixonix | and highly allergic, just somebody observing for hours instead of minutes, i suppose, with adrenalin ready | 02:52 |
| nixonix | so there really isnt that group that cant get vaccinated, probably, or its very very rare. meaning vaccine passports dont need exclusions | 02:53 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/ProfMakris/status/1431334709125124101 | 02:53 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Michael Makris (@ProfMakris): "The #COVID19 Pfizer vaccine was as immunogenic in HIV +ve individuals (almost all of whom had negative HIV viral load) as in HIV -ve health care workers. [...] | 02:53 |
| nixonix | whatever those -ve +ve mean. maybe on medication or not? | 02:55 |
| nixonix | leonardi seems to be there are lewy bodies in human brains too | 02:58 |
| de-facto | nixonix, what would happen if we encoded SARS-CoV-1 spike and SARS-CoV-2 spike and maybe RaTG13 s-proteins in mRNA and make a combined vaccine from that? | 02:58 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.31.446386v1 | 03:00 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: Spike mutation T403R allows bat coronavirus RaTG13 to use human ACE2 | bioRxiv | 03:00 |
| de-facto | so all of those can dock on hACE2, but stimulating the immune system simultaneously with all of them may induce a much broader spectrum of antibody affinity | 03:01 |
| de-facto | then sniff that | 03:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +6784 cases (now 6.8 million) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +3945 cases (now 1.5 million), +16 deaths (now 26950), +63438 tests (now 40.5 million) since 22 hours ago — Martinique: +1239 cases (now 37192), +31 deaths (now 442), +19966 tests (now 335215) since 2 days ago — Netherlands: +1735 cases (now 2.0 million), +8 deaths (now 18179) since 22 hours ago | 03:02 |
| de-facto | nixonix, -ve and +ve mean negative and positive | 03:05 |
| nixonix | idk, i remember reading something like using ancestral variant would protect from all the descendants. but i doubt it would be more efficient than using the current dominating variant | 03:12 |
| nixonix | that real case zero sequence might perhaps help for pan-betacorona vaccine development (at least for all the future sars2 lineages) | 03:13 |
| nixonix | i thought that using several proteins in the same vaccine, like SA spike, delta spike etc - or maybe just some parts of them in assembled non-natural protein (while probably good to be some variants whole s-protein too). ub-612 has some kind of assembled protein | 03:15 |
| nixonix | and i also thought using some epitopes of N, but maybe not since the chinese whole virus vaccines are so bad | 03:16 |
| nixonix | the next big thing will be some adjuvanted vaccine i think. and then, a lot later probably, first pan-betacoronavirus vaccine attempts | 03:16 |
| nixonix | but those first adjuvanted vaccines may fail for various reasons, like sanofi 1.0 did | 03:17 |
| nixonix | that CoVac-II is very interesting. lets see if it get trialed and even manufactured ever | 03:20 |
| nixonix | it looks like this isnt the same, despite name very close: "COVAC-2 is a protein subunit vaccine ... Sepivac SWE™, an adjuvant developed by Seppic and the Vaccine Formulation Institute | 03:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Suriname: +326 cases (now 29293), +3 deaths (now 721) since 22 hours ago — Egypt: +279 cases (now 288441), +9 deaths (now 16736) since 22 hours ago — Bermuda: +79 cases (now 2923), +1 deaths (now 34), +10128 tests (now 465071) since 4 days ago — Gabon: +69 cases (now 25888), +1 deaths (now 166) since 3 days ago | 03:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Welsh teen in hospital with Covid targeted online by anti-vaxxers → https://is.gd/VekutI | 03:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: With vaccinations, the UK suppressed covid deaths in their Delta wave (compared with Alpha) by > 90%In the US, that suppression is < 60%https://newsnodes.com/usUS 7-day average now > 1300 deaths → https://is.gd/iURe8d | 03:55 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: SinoVac COVID-19 Vaccine Has ‘0 To 40’ Antibody Levels Compared To Pfizer’s 1,300: Expert → https://is.gd/rPOi9V | 04:11 |
| LjL | (anecdote, not from an actual study, although it links to the study in Brazil that found it mediocre... but those people on Reddit saying it's "anti-Chinese propaganda" without specifying any reasons for such a claim make me roll my eyes) | 04:12 |
| LjL | these days, everything seems to be either Chinese propaganda or anti-Chinese propaganda | 04:16 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Influence of age on the effectiveness and duration of protection in Vaxzevria and CoronaVac vaccines ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/DIPI27SQ ) | 04:17 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israel registers almost 11,000 COVID cases, marking new record → https://is.gd/UYNxIw | 04:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nicaragua: +318 cases (now 11735), +1 deaths (now 200) since 2 hours ago — United Kingdom: +23958 cases (now 6.8 million), +37 deaths (now 132684) since 21 hours ago — France: +9718 cases (now 6.8 million), +91 deaths (now 114546) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +3258 cases (now 1.5 million), +14 deaths (now 26953) since 21 hours ago | 05:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Bloom Lab: @jbloom_lab: R to @jbloom_lab: See if you can spot difference in how same samples are described in PubMed Central version (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7108196/pdf/ciaa203.pdf), which would have been built from original peer-reviewed manuscript: "Eight COVID-19 were collected from hospitals in Wuhan from December 18 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/JHUX3E | 05:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India's economy rebounded at a record rate in the three months to the end of June even as a devastating second wave of Covid-19 hit the country. → https://is.gd/l18ooy | 05:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Bloom Lab: @jbloom_lab: R to @jbloom_lab: @acritschristoph, here is GitHub repo where I re-aligned the raw data from both the *.bam and *.sra files on Sequence Read archive: https://github.com/jbloom/SARS-CoV-2_Shen_et_alI think I got pretty much the same mutations reported in the paper. I found these mutations puzzling, as I expected... → https://is.gd/Hmi5r2 | 06:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bolivia: +197 cases (now 490664), +6748 tests (now 2.3 million) since 23 hours ago | 06:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Ireland to drop almost all Covid-19 restrictions in October → https://is.gd/BtoRcG | 06:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Japan finds black particles in Moderna vaccine → https://is.gd/5vjXQf | 06:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Pakistan: +3569 cases (now 1.2 million), +101 deaths (now 25889), +53637 tests (now 17.8 million) since a day ago — Germany: +8802 cases (now 4.0 million), +27 deaths (now 92542) since 18 hours ago — Belgium: +1854 cases (now 1.2 million), +6 deaths (now 25380), +43682 tests (now 18.7 million) since a day ago | 07:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Japan finds another Moderna vial suspected to contain foreign substance → https://is.gd/RbF1uA | 07:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ohio, United States: +5914 cases (now 1.2 million), +67 deaths (now 20866) since a day ago — Wales, United Kingdom: +3872 cases (now 278262), +1 deaths (now 5672) since a day ago — Minnesota, United States: +3870 cases (now 649964), +6 deaths (now 7904) since a day ago — Bavaria, Germany: +2069 cases (now 677861), +4 deaths (now 15418) since a day ago | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | September 01, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/UvH2Up | 09:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Court rules to bar teachers who refuse to wear a face mask → https://is.gd/YLDRFC | 09:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Burundi: +591 cases (now 12585) since 3 days ago — Togo: +300 cases (now 21561), +2280 tests (now 464241) since a day ago | 10:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Illinois church camp that didn't require vaccines or masks linked to 180 Covid cases, CDC says → https://is.gd/k1Fe4Q | 10:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Coronavirus: WHO monitoring new mu variant → https://is.gd/NHDd6N | 10:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Estonia: +407 cases (now 142363), +1 deaths (now 1293), +4763 tests (now 1.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Grenada: +78 cases (now 539) since a day ago — Uttar Pradesh, India: +64 cases (now 1.7 million), +3 deaths (now 22823) since 23 hours ago — Armenia: +615 cases (now 242750), +13 deaths (now 4857), +7462 tests (now 1.5 million) since 23 hours ago | 10:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Africa has a chance to help the world end polio for good. It needs to seize it now: Covid-19 has demonstrated the danger that even small pockets of disease can pose to an entire population. This applies to polio too, which will always threaten to resurge unless it… → https://is.gd/yRXZHu | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: Two insurance-based ways to get more Americans vaccinated: Beyond workplace wellness programs and group policy pricing for employer-based health insurance, employers and insurers can do one more thing to increase Covid-19 vaccination rates: establish workplace vaccination sites. → https://is.gd/ZyQdUe | 11:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +18368 cases (now 6.9 million), +790 deaths (now 184014), +111728 vaccines (now 43.8 million), +328060 tests (now 179.1 million) since a day ago — Poland: +366 cases (now 2.9 million), +13 deaths (now 75358), +40879 tests (now 19.8 million) since a day ago [... want %more?] | 11:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Vaccinated Singapore eases into reopening as other nations watch for lessons → https://is.gd/LIrjbY | 11:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Health and Care Bill: the government does not want to limit privatisation or integrate services: I am pleased that the BMA has come out firmly against the Health and Social Care Bill.1 If passed, it will disrupt the NHS while it is struggling with huge pressures from covid, staff shortages, and... → https://is.gd/pDxBHq | 12:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Liberia: +57 cases (now 5584), +112 deaths (now 260) since a day ago | 12:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: In Indonesia, drone deliveries provide lifeline for isolating Covid patients → https://is.gd/5KFTja | 12:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid’s toxic divides could shape Europe for years, study says → https://is.gd/soTWCf | 12:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Japan finds black particles in Moderna vaccine → https://is.gd/m7moca | 12:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Austria: +1848 cases (now 690153) since a day ago — Romania: +1443 cases (now 1.1 million), +21 deaths (now 34591), +42847 tests (now 11.5 million) since 22 hours ago — Croatia: +805 cases (now 374803), +4 deaths (now 8338), +10094 tests (now 2.6 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 13:11 |
| darsie | Austria | 13:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. Each row/entry contains the number of new cases and deaths reported per day and per country in the EU/EEA. → https://is.gd/tBASDi | 13:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iran: +33170 cases (now 5.0 million), +599 deaths (now 108393), +449370 tests (now 29.0 million) since 23 hours ago — Tunisia: +2134 cases (now 666168), +87 deaths (now 23538), +13691 tests (now 2.6 million) since a day ago — Belarus: +1699 cases (now 483231), +11 deaths (now 3791), +20642 tests (now 7.8 million) since 21 hours ago [... want %more?] | 14:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: C.1.2: All you need to know about the new ‘highly transmissible’ Covid variant → https://is.gd/AqoGRO | 14:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: France starts Covid-19 booster shot campaign for the elderly → https://is.gd/eCS6iS | 14:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: President Putin BANS Mandatory Vaccinations in Russia: ‘We Are a Free Country’ → https://is.gd/BAaZpZ | 14:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +1648 cases (now 764295), +20 deaths (now 10770), +10612 tests (now 3.9 million) since a day ago — Bangladesh: +1042 cases (now 1.5 million), +30294 tests (now 9.0 million) since 22 hours ago — Denmark: +556 cases (now 346413), +136238 tests (now 81.2 million) since 22 hours ago — Gibraltar: +13 cases (now 5367), +1986 tests (now 337886) since 20 hours ago | 15:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: This doesn't look good"First findings from world’s largest study on #LongCovid in children" [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/SjaQzi | 15:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Slovenia: +764 cases (now 267962) since a day ago — Vietnam: +11434 cases (now 473530), +804 deaths (now 11868) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +3874 cases (now 782861), +33275 tests (now 9.8 million) since 8 hours ago | 15:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Latest posts: Emergence of lineage B.1.621 in Latin America and the Caribbean: The W.H.O. has named this variant as Mu since 30 August 2021. who.int Tracking SARS-CoV-2 variants All viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, change over time. Most changes have little to no impact on the virus’ properties. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/WYwYxh | 15:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Quebec's vaccine passport goes into effect, limiting much of public life for those unvaccinated → https://is.gd/d2D4ez | 15:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: Same Delta %, absolute 15 per cent total population difference in fully vaccinated, other factors not easily quantified.US vs Canada now5X cases8X hospitalizations10X deaths → https://is.gd/FmMQeN | 16:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Serbia: +3346 cases (now 766279), +15 deaths (now 7307), +17035 tests (now 5.0 million) since a day ago — Palestine: +2675 cases (now 344957), +8 deaths (now 3688), +13457 tests (now 2.2 million) since a day ago — Iraq: +7309 cases (now 1.9 million), +48 deaths (now 20878), +41502 tests (now 14.4 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 16:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): We're back: Statement on this week's sub shutdown: Last week we shared a protest post made by the mods of /r/VaxxHappened regarding misinformation and disinformation on Reddit. This post called for Reddit to take action against this, given how dangerous it can be to public health. Reddit's CEO responded and this was cross posted [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/EgmAwc | 16:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Children's Hospitals Are Pleading For Federal Help To Deal With A Capacity Crisis: Pediatric hospitals are "at or near capacity" and expect to see more young COVID-19 patients as the school year resumes, according to the Children's Hospital Association. → https://is.gd/nnYrYN | 16:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Slovakia: +199 cases (now 395122) since a day ago | 16:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: In London, Thousands Of Red Hearts Honor COVID Victims In Plain View Of Parliament: Volunteers have painted more than 150,000 red hearts on a wall along the River Thames and people stop to write messages and names of lost loved ones inside the hearts. → https://is.gd/7sMfh0 | 16:35 |
| LjL | it seems to me that for some people, as long as a number is > 0%, it's good to them if it matches what they want to believe https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/pfju1n/sinovac_covid19_vaccine_has_0_to_40_antibody/hb4yt9f/ | 16:49 |
| pwr22 | This was quite interesting: https://www.psypost.org/2021/08/covid-19-rule-breakers-characterized-by-extraversion-amorality-and-uninformed-information-gathering-strategies-61727 | 17:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Evaluation of the Safety and Immunogenicity of SII Vaccine Constructs Based on the SARS-CoV-2 Variant in Adults → https://is.gd/H7wCGn | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: RECOVAC Booster Vaccination Study: Conditions : Covid19; Kidney Diseases; Vaccine Response Impaired; SARS-CoV2 Infection → https://is.gd/Q4t4WN | 17:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +35493 cases (now 6.8 million), +95 deaths (now 132742), +1013871 tests (now 270.9 million) since 22 hours ago — Cuba: +6609 cases (now 659464), +74 deaths (now 5377), +49674 tests (now 8.0 million) since a day ago — India: +1913 cases (now 32.8 million), +257 deaths (now 438584) since 21 hours ago — Switzerland: +18 deaths (now 10996) since 10 hours ago | 18:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: A Maskless Church Camp And Conference Are Linked To 180 COVID-19 Cases: The Illinois events, both hosted by one unnamed organization, did not require masks or COVID-19 testing. Officials say that more than 1,000 people across at least four states could have been exposed. → https://is.gd/x5yiI0 | 18:24 |
| lastshell | shit | 18:31 |
| lastshell | can someone that is good in math can tell me is this is accurate or I'm doing a mistake | 18:31 |
| lastshell | 648_763 / 333_257_237 * 100 # deaths / total_population * 100 = mortality rate ? | 18:32 |
| lastshell | 0.19467334178252219 | 18:32 |
| lastshell | this are USA numbers | 18:32 |
| lastshell | close to 20% ? | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: English study finds long COVID affects up to 1 in 7 children months after infection → https://is.gd/DApl1R | 18:34 |
| pwr22 | Tjhat would be 0.19% | 18:44 |
| pwr22 | Or 19 people in 10,000 if that's easier to visualise | 18:44 |
| lastshell | thank you | 18:44 |
| pwr22 | * That would be 0.19% | 18:44 |
| lastshell | I was doing math wrong | 18:44 |
| pwr22 | Are there really 649k deaths in the US alone? | 18:45 |
| pwr22 | Isn't that like half the global death toll? | 18:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Brazilian viper venom may become tool in fight against COVID, study shows → https://is.gd/CKp15M | 18:45 |
| lastshell | pwr22 world wide is 4.5M deaths | 18:45 |
| pwr22 | Ah doh, I thought it was 1.5M for some reason | 18:46 |
| pwr22 | Wow I really hadn't looked at the total deaths in ages | 18:47 |
| pwr22 | Scary stuff | 18:47 |
| de-facto | %cases USA | 18:54 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: United States has had 39.6 million confirmed cases (12.0% of all people) and 648763 deaths (1.6% of cases) as of 50 minutes ago. 584.0 million tests were done (6.8% positive). 205.0 million were vaccinated (62.2%). +102195 cases since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20States | 18:54 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about United States, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 18:54 |
| de-facto | btw very large differences per age group | 18:55 |
| de-facto | %ifr 30 | 18:55 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, for every 4989 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 18:55 |
| de-facto | %ifr 85 | 18:55 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, for every 7 infections at that age, one would progress to a fatal outcome, on average. | 18:55 |
| de-facto | that was before Delta or Alpha and before vaccinations | 18:55 |
| lastshell | Brainstorm https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ and https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/biweekly-covid-deaths | 18:56 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Israel: +10880 cases (now 1.1 million), +27 deaths (now 7070) since a day ago — Azerbaijan: +3845 cases (now 428736), +41 deaths (now 5677), +19102 tests (now 4.5 million) since a day ago — Myanmar: +3358 cases (now 402640), +101 deaths (now 15490), +39461 tests (now 3.7 million) since a day ago [... want %more?] | 19:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: WHO presses world leaders to hold off on Covid booster shots through September → https://is.gd/xwJUK5 | 19:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: COVID-19 Scan for Sep 01, 2021: Aspirin and COVID death Allergies and Pfizer COVID vaccine → https://is.gd/OrCdAA | 19:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +6496 cases (now 4.5 million), +69 deaths (now 129290), +303717 tests (now 84.3 million) since a day ago — Djibouti: +7 cases (now 11757), +513 tests (now 207114) since 23 hours ago | 19:30 |
| rnixonix | In-hospital mortality was significantly lower in patients receiving pre-hospital antiplatelet therapy (18.9% vs. 21.5%, p<0.001), resulting in a 2.6% absolute reduction in mortality | 19:34 |
| rnixonix | observational, not large RCT. and the effect wasnt huge | 19:35 |
| rnixonix | maybe its reduced by heparin use, so that it isnt cumulative | 19:36 |
| rnixonix | which means, before hospitalization it could still be effective | 19:36 |
| rnixonix | .title https://twitter.com/WesElyMD/status/1433084748835049478 | 19:37 |
| Brainstorm | rnixonix: From twitter.com: WesElyMD (@WesElyMD): "1/🧵💥 NEW COVID THERAPY SAVES LIVES Adding baricitinib to steroids will save 1,000s of hospitalized #COVID pts. Our @LancetRespirMed COV-Barrier study is FREE. I explain👇why it’s [...] | 19:37 |
| rnixonix | 5%, and is cumulative with dexamethasone. tocilizumap aka actemra had something like 3% if i recall | 19:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: COVID long-haulers may be at risk for severe kidney disease: Mary Van Beusekom | News Writer | CIDRAP News Sep 01, 2021 Even those who had mild COVID-19 are at increased risk for major declines in kidney function. → https://is.gd/LmlUvG | 19:39 |
| Sky_Net | hello guys, so i've got sick yesterday, and test is ready today, its says negative | 19:39 |
| pwr22 | yay | 19:39 |
| rnixonix | pcr? | 19:39 |
| Sky_Net | i was sick for 3 times this year, and all 3 times COVID test was negative...im starting to think government hides true results of a test | 19:39 |
| Sky_Net | yeah PCR | 19:39 |
| pwr22 | It's still possible to get sick from non-covid stuff | 19:40 |
| de-facto | or false negative, just stay away from other people until you feel well again | 19:41 |
| Sky_Net | maybe i should get some private company PCR test...dont trust government ones | 19:41 |
| rnixonix | when symptoms started before test, its probably not sars2. but not impossible so another test in 3 days or so should confirm if want to be very sure not to infect anyone | 19:41 |
| rnixonix | something like that our hc officials adviced during that soccer hooligan epidemic here | 19:41 |
| rnixonix | (although they still didnt revoke quarantines for those exposed in the bus from russia) | 19:42 |
| rnixonix | we need third doses. these seconds just reduce the likelihood of not being sars when symptomatic. but still the same hassle with tests and quarantines, if wanting to be sure | 19:45 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: I wouldn't think a false negative on PCR is very likely? | 19:45 |
| rnixonix | or information if 6+ weeks interval makes a big difference | 19:45 |
| de-facto | we got an old professor over 80 years old, i recommended him to ask for a 3rd dose since his 2nd was back in march or such, and they told him they officially will start with recommending that soon, so he already got it today | 19:46 |
| de-facto | pwr22, oh sure it can be falsely negative | 19:46 |
| de-facto | starting with sample taken wrongly, lab screwing up stuff etc | 19:46 |
| de-facto | should not happen for sure, but it never can be excluded | 19:47 |
| rnixonix | it can be, esp if not symptomatic. pcr test is almost 100% if theres virions in the swab sample, but theres not always. at borders they catch only about 60-70% of cases according to some estimates | 19:47 |
| de-facto | its all about probabilities, normally they should be trustworthy, of course, but there never will be a 100% guarantee for tests | 19:47 |
| de-facto | repeating them independently, e.g. other lab other person taking sample at different time etc may improve predictive value | 19:48 |
| rnixonix | its the timing of the sample, and how its taken. in russia they take it from inside the cheek or even top of tongue, then "go" (soccer hooligans told, although those were rapid tests) | 19:48 |
| de-facto | also people should clean their mouth, then wait a few hours without eating or drinking and then let them take the sample | 19:49 |
| de-facto | for a more clean signal | 19:49 |
| rnixonix | reliable spit tests would be great. pooling them in schools, offices etc | 19:49 |
| de-facto | otherwise it may be difficult if the sample is highly contaminated with other molecules to pick out the PCR fragments of SARS-CoV-2 | 19:49 |
| de-facto | yeah definitely rnixonix we need those to be optimized | 19:49 |
| rnixonix | my current view is, there are two main types of sars2 infection. say, type 1: only or mostly in upper respiratory. viral loads are usually low, and no or little IgG response. there might be IgM and IgA response, or then just cleared with innate immune response. cellular response, i have no information | 19:53 |
| rnixonix | type 2 would be systemic infection, where theres robust IgG response too | 19:54 |
| Sky_Net | Does my body contain thousands of mini-anti-virus cells, that are fighting infecton without my knowledge? Is my body the most perfect anti-virus vaccine? Am i demi-god?? | 19:55 |
| de-facto | yes of course | 19:56 |
| rnixonix | immune cells yeah. without your knowledge, it doesnt look like so, because you asked. so you prob know by now | 19:56 |
| pwr22 | <de-facto> "should not happen for sure..." <- Sure, but not 3 times on 3 separate occasions i would have thought. Or not likely anyhow | 19:58 |
| de-facto | yeah PCR is the most sensitive test we got | 19:58 |
| de-facto | except for antibody titers, but those are delayed | 19:58 |
| rnixonix | so that first type, non-systemic infection, they might still have some immune memory, but maybe mostly not IgG type, so reinfection in just couple of months is possible | 19:58 |
| de-facto | it also depends on the primers they use | 19:59 |
| pwr22 | <de-facto> "otherwise it may be difficult if..." <- Is that the case? I didn't think this would a thing | 19:59 |
| de-facto | remember the "black out" of ALpha | 19:59 |
| de-facto | if they would not have used several independent locations on SARs-CoV-2 genome for priming they would have seen a total black out not only one of the primers | 19:59 |
| rnixonix | would it protect from severe symptoms, and how efficiently, hard to say. if there are lots of that type of infections around, and protection for severe symptoms is good and lasting, that should have shown in some countries so, that uk variant winter-summer wave made less damage than previous wave for them | 20:00 |
| de-facto | afaik most countries use multi-primer PCR, to not affect the predictive value of PCR by a single mutation in the wrong place | 20:00 |
| rnixonix | but seeing that can be hard, since thats prob minority of previous infections, and uk variant was more lethal than previous 614g | 20:01 |
| rnixonix | where that blackout with uk variant happen? i dont remember hearing about that, so they wouldnt show in pcr tests | 20:03 |
| rnixonix | or was it in rapid tests (not used much here) | 20:03 |
| rnixonix | they should give old 614D and 614G variants some name, instead of the later ones | 20:04 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: WHO monitoring new coronavirus variant named Mu → https://is.gd/JDD9y8 | 20:06 |
| rnixonix | anyone knows about viral load differences of delta vs earlier variants, in other parts of body than upper airways? | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Moldova: +579 cases (now 268105), +5 deaths (now 6406), +4877 tests (now 1.6 million) since a day ago — Maldives: +189 cases (now 81301) since 22 hours ago — Spain: +6818 cases (now 4.9 million), +132 deaths (now 84472) since a day ago — Morocco: +6020 cases (now 866968), +100 deaths (now 12749), +45719 tests (now 9.0 million) since 22 hours ago | 20:07 |
| rnixonix | has turbo been awol lately? id have a study for him | 20:13 |
| rnixonix | .title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0197458021002104?via%3Dihub give this to turbo if he comes back | 20:14 |
| Brainstorm | rnixonix: From www.sciencedirect.com: Healthy dietary intake moderates the effects of age on brain iron concentration and working memory performance - ScienceDirect | 20:14 |
| LjL | <CarlSagan> [Ars Technica - Science] Anger, frustration at FDA over Biden’s booster plan; two top regulators resign https://arstechnica.com/?p=1791167 2021-09-01T17:08:39 | 20:15 |
| dTal | weird contrast to archpc's experience - guy my work is contracting for got symptomatic covid on Friday | 20:15 |
| dTal | he was back at work on Monday | 20:15 |
| dTal | still has a mild cough and no sense of smell | 20:15 |
| LjL | it's just a fluuuuuuuuuuuu | 20:16 |
| dTal | unvaccinated | 20:16 |
| LjL | no sense of smell is not a good sign for his brain | 20:16 |
| LjL | regardless how short the illness | 20:16 |
| LjL | also sometimes it rebounds | 20:16 |
| dTal | we had a skype call with him today, he was sitting right next to someone | 20:17 |
| Sky_Net | %cases moscow | 20:17 |
| dTal | I'd be pretty uneasy in their situation | 20:17 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: Moscow, Russia has had 1.6 million confirmed cases (12.4% of all people) and 27445 deaths (1.8% of cases) as of 12 hours ago. +1162 cases, +44 deaths since a day ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Moscow | 20:17 |
| Brainstorm | Sky_Net: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Moscow, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 20:17 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2021/august/possible-new-antivirals-against-covid-19-herpes.html | 20:19 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.acs.org: Possible new antivirals against COVID-19, herpes - American Chemical Society | 20:19 |
| pwr22 | dTal: what a twat | 20:19 |
| dTal | well he seems to think he's "better" | 20:20 |
| nixonix | your body, his choice! | 20:20 |
| dTal | credits vitamin D, vitamin C, etc etc | 20:20 |
| pwr22 | LjL: As someone who gets floored for weeks every time he get's the flu, I have been known to go off on one at work to a certain person who makes a point of having never taken a sick day and comes in when he's really sick | 20:20 |
| pwr22 | There's me an a bunch of older people at work too who don't just shake that shit off | 20:21 |
| pwr22 | I've had to take more than a week off work before after he's flu'd me pu | 20:21 |
| pwr22 | So still a twat even if it was flu imo | 20:21 |
| pwr22 | dTal: But he still has symptoms and is for sure still contagious soooo | 20:21 |
| pwr22 | fuck them | 20:22 |
| pwr22 | Just stay off sick ffs | 20:22 |
| pwr22 | It's a fucking pandemic | 20:22 |
| pwr22 | </rage> | 20:22 |
| dTal | is he for sure still contagious? | 20:22 |
| LjL | no, but it is not unlikely | 20:22 |
| pwr22 | Well assuming he got symptoms on friday, he hasn't waited out the quarantine period I mean | 20:22 |
| pwr22 | which is reckless | 20:23 |
| pwr22 | He'd be fired where I work btw | 20:23 |
| dTal | mind you I find it difficult to believe he could have obtained aa PCR test in that time | 20:23 |
| pwr22 | Or at least severely reprimanded | 20:23 |
| nixonix | with sars2 its usually when the most symptoms have disappeared, couple of days from that infectivity is much lower (but not zero) | 20:23 |
| pwr22 | We have to book ourselves into the office if we go, have to answer questions and are supposed to report it when we get covid symptoms or a positive test | 20:23 |
| dTal | he was tutting about people lacking "common sense" too | 20:24 |
| dTal | now I wonder which way he meant | 20:24 |
| pwr22 | lol? | 20:24 |
| pwr22 | What sort of common sense does he mean? | 20:24 |
| pwr22 | "knowing its just flu" right? | 20:24 |
| dTal | ambiguous | 20:24 |
| nixonix | i think he meant to say, just a flu, bro | 20:24 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.cell.com/stem-cell-reports/fulltext/S2213-6711(21)00387-8 maybe help for sars2-induced diabetes, in the future | 20:26 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.cell.com: Generation of pancreatic progenitors from human pluripotent stem cells by small molecules: Stem Cell Reports | 20:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: A look at the coronavirus variant landscape (and at the people whose job it is to watch it).Possible futures range from Quite Good to (potentially) Very Bad - are the odds better for the former?https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/keeping-coronavirus-variant-landscape → https://is.gd/NuClw3 | 20:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mozambique: +438 cases (now 146754), +2 deaths (now 1866), +3332 tests (now 853959) since a day ago | 20:32 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210830/Prevalence-of-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-in-SF-Bay-Area.aspx | 20:32 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.news-medical.net: Prevalence of vaccine breakthrough cases in SF Bay Area | 20:32 |
| nixonix | The authors of this study indicated that fully vaccinated individuals were at a higher risk of being infected by variants containing mutations such as L452R, L452Q, E484K, and/or F490S as compared to unvaccinated persons. These mutations are associated with decreased antibody neutralization. | 20:33 |
| nixonix | This study revealed no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and fully vaccinated individuals, regardless of lineage. Scientists have estimated viral loads using Ct values. | 20:33 |
| nixonix | The viral loads were reported to be significantly greater in symptomatically infected individuals as compared to asymptomatic vaccine breakthrough cases. Additionally, the researchers revealed similar viral loads in symptomatic vaccine breakthrough infections and unvaccinated infections. | 20:34 |
| dTal | how is it possible for vaccinated people to have less severe progressions, and yet similar viral loads? | 20:35 |
| LjL | i want to remind - they have similar ct thresholds | 20:35 |
| LjL | which may be a decent proxy for viral load wherever it's measured, i.e. usually mouth or nose | 20:36 |
| nixonix | JAK blocker like baricitinib (linked above) have risks, is warned in the comments of this tweet. also somebody wonders, what happened to ACEi and ARB studies (vs rona): | 20:40 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1433092000274739205 | 20:40 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "A repurposed drug JAK blocker, used for rheumatoid arthritis, discovered to have potential for severe Covid via #AI, in a randomized trial, has a very significant reduction [...] | 20:40 |
| nixonix | blockerS | 20:40 |
| nixonix | because these current vaccines have effective IgG response, that only somewhat affects upper respiratory (by mechanism, that isnt confirmed, possibly b-cells migrating via trachea, or then vessels). and viral loads are measured from upper resp | 20:42 |
| nixonix | and its not known yet, whats how they prevent severe symptoms despite mostly waned circulating IgG (most common thought being cellular memory) | 20:43 |
| nixonix | btw isnt dexamethasones reduction in mortality much higher than 5% (which is for baricitinib in that study), for patients needing extra oxygen? and i guess its similar patient group that benefits from baricitinib | 20:46 |
| nixonix | vaccines are the only current silver bullet, tho. around 95% reduction in mortality. permanent organ damage - no information yet, but prob something | 20:48 |
| LjL | <apropos> ● [outbreak] Viral loads of Delta-variant SARS-CoV2 breakthrough infections following vaccination and booster with the BNT162b2 vaccine → http://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2021.08.29.21262798v1?rss=1 | 20:48 |
| LjL | (Israel, 3rd shot) | 20:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: WHO, Berlin float sanctions if countries suppress information on pandemics → https://is.gd/OBDjXp | 20:53 |
| LjL | or if they don't suppress the right information...? | 20:54 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Viral loads of Delta-variant SARS-CoV2 breakthrough infections following vaccination and booster with the BNT162b2 vaccine ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/FZKH2TET ) | 20:54 | |
| nixonix | not helpful for timing, is it 3, 4, or 5 months (in that previous study it looked like 4 months for the third, to prevent spreading it) | 20:54 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.27.21262356v1 | 20:56 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: COVID-19-associated hospitalizations among vaccinated and unvaccinated adults ≥18 years – COVID-NET, 13 states, January 1 – July 24, 2021 | medRxiv | 20:56 |
| nixonix | btw, ratios in the study like the one above, and also studies on long covid, are affected by the share of those that have already got infection (in this case, probably reducing the hospitalization when some of the non-vaccinated were somewhat protected by previous infection) | 21:00 |
| nixonix | and for long covid studies, if done in high prevalence countries like uk, and comparing group of those with identified infection and their reported symptoms to the group with no identified infection, the latter one reporting also symptoms. some of them for multiple other reasons or even imaginary, but some of them from unidentified sars2 infection | 21:02 |
| nixonix | and if you only catch eg 1/5 of cases, that group of unidentified (and lc-like symptoms) can be big | 21:02 |
| nixonix | meaning biased control group | 21:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American: Rogue Antibodies Involved In Nearly One-fifth Of COVID Deaths: Clinicians manually prone a COVID-19 patient in an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) in Sao Paulo, Brazil. → https://is.gd/44OMcQ | 21:04 |
| nixonix | “The initial report from last year was probably one of the most important papers in the pandemic,” | 21:06 |
| nixonix | maybe the one from the last fall i linked here, or eurekalert article on it, where they thought it might explain why convalescent plasma studies had so weak results (those with anti-IFN-I should have been screeded and left out) | 21:07 |
| nixonix | no, it was another study. but on the same stuff anyway | 21:09 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.abl4340 | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.science.org: Autoantibodies neutralizing type I IFNs are present in ~4% of uninfected individuals over 70 years old and account for ~20% of COVID-19 deaths | 21:09 |
| nixonix | lots of studies on that, from the last fall to recent days | 21:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/scitranslmed.abh2624 the most recent maybe | 21:13 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.science.org: Type I interferon autoantibodies are associated with systemic immune alterations in patients with COVID-19 | 21:14 |
| twomoon | hello | 21:16 |
| nixonix | Those studies showed that “if the interferon response begins before viral replication peaks, we will have protective immunity,” he says. If the viruses thwart this antiviral defense, however, the delayed interferon response becomes pathogenic—summoning too many monocytes, which secrete inflammatory molecules and cause tissue damage | 21:26 |
| nixonix | “If you give interferon early, you can really increase the antiviral response. This is where you gain the most,” ... “and you go in and give interferon, you are going to make things worse,” | 21:26 |
| nixonix | from another study on uk variant's immune evasion mutations: Orf9b is not only enhanced in expression in B.1.1.7 but appears to be regulated by phosphorylation which is in turn particularly repressed during B.1.1.7 infection. This suggests that Orf9b inhibition of innate immunity is regulated by the host innate response itself. | 21:28 |
| nixonix | Type I IFN restriction of SARS-CoV-2 is mediated in part by interferon induced membrane protein 2 (IFITM2) suppression of viral entry, and IFITM2 sensitivity is influenced by the Spike sequence | 21:30 |
| nixonix | unphosphorylated Orf9b is maximally active early after infection to permit effective innate antagonism and viral production, but as host activation begins, Orf9b becomes phosphorylated and switched off, enabling subsequent innate immune activation | 21:31 |
| nixonix | so sars2 uses, via orf9b that is increased with uk variant, cells own mechanism for phosphorylation of of orf9b, increasing inflammation later, when its damaging, not protective. no idea if its enhanced in delta | 21:33 |
| nixonix | meaning ifn-I | 21:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +9544 cases (now 2.8 million), +235 deaths (now 82496), +61027 tests (now 16.5 million) since a day ago — Albania: +982 cases (now 147369), +3 deaths (now 2501), +5724 tests (now 1.1 million) since a day ago — Germany: +6253 cases (now 4.0 million) since 23 hours ago — France: +9742 cases (now 6.8 million), +56 deaths (now 114577) since 22 hours ago | 21:34 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.06.446826v1.full | 21:36 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.biorxiv.org: Evolution of enhanced innate immune evasion by the SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.7 UK variant | bioRxiv | 21:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Health Canada warns people not to treat COVID with ivermectin dewormer as demand surges in feed stores → https://is.gd/DQN2fT | 21:36 |
| nixonix | try telling them, everybody should take it. they will probably stop | 21:37 |
| nixonix | you guys want more ivermectin jokes or memes, or worrying news as usual? | 21:40 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/31/covid-could-cause-significant-rise-in-dementia-cases-alzheimers-group.html | 21:41 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.cnbc.com: Covid could cause significant rise in dementia cases: Alzheimer's group | 21:41 |
| nixonix | Atri, who’s director of Banner Sun Health Research Institute in the U.S., explained that Covid can damage and clot micro vessels in the brain, hurt the body’s immunity and cause inflammation. That can give “easier access to things that can harm your brain” and cause symptoms of neurological disorders — such as dementia — to show up | 21:44 |
| nixonix | earlier | 21:44 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1433073560726253572 | 21:45 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): "yes, covid has a superantigen like hiv that presumably drives t cells into the brain and causes inflammation seen in dementia/encephalitis." | nitter | 21:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @Dereklowe: I did not have this on my coronavirus bingo card: → https://is.gd/GNEQb8 | 21:57 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/08/31/covid-myocarditis-risk-children-083121 | 21:57 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.aappublications.org: Study: Myocarditis risk 37 times higher for children with COVID-19 than uninfected peers | American Academy of Pediatrics | 21:57 |
| nixonix | they are talking about the same things than we here, derek | 21:59 |
| nixonix | not true, that PharmaHeretic's claim. around similar, if not waned too long, than reinfections in that danish study | 22:02 |
| nixonix | which probably missed more those cases with mild or no symptoms | 22:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +41965 cases (now 32.8 million), +634 deaths (now 439020) since 17 hours ago | 22:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Eric Topol: @EricTopol: R to @EricTopol: Here's the link to the reporthttps://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2112981?query=featured_homewhich aligns to what I have been highlighting w/r to reduced mRNA vaccine effectiveness in the Delta wave vs *symptomatic* disease → https://is.gd/9BnBXa | 23:02 |
| imaginary | hmm how are 'pre-delta' and 'during-delta' periods defined/determined? | 23:07 |
| imaginary | just when delta became the dominant variant in a region? | 23:07 |
| LjL | i'd make it "near-100%" for meaningfulness of whatever numbers you're drawing from it | 23:15 |
| nixonix | anyone knows which latin american countries have most delta? or if theres handy links for that type of info. in outbreak.info you have to look at a country at time | 23:17 |
| de-facto | imaginary at the point in time when 50% of cases are contributed by infections with Delta variant and R(Delta) > 1 | 23:18 |
| LjL | nixonix, actually if you go to https://outbreak.info/situation-reports/delta there is a "Cumulative Delta prevalence" map | 23:19 |
| nixonix | ok, ty | 23:20 |
| nixonix | do you also have a link to the tweet with pic showing percentages of us congress members, physicians etc that have been vaccinated? | 23:21 |
| LjL | i don't remember about it, any keywords? | 23:21 |
| nixonix | not sure if i linked it here. i thought if somebody remembered. it might not have recognizable text, other than in the pic, because i cant find it | 23:22 |
| nixonix | (was like 100% or very close for both parties congress members) | 23:22 |
| aanna | so do we need a vaccine, that has better neutralizing antibodies so that asymptomic don't spread | 23:22 |
| dTal | t'd be nice for sure but we're unlikely to get one so we're just going to have to deal with that | 23:23 |
| LjL | simple answer: yes | 23:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: COVID-19 cases reach new daily highs across US: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Sep 01, 2021 August was the fourth-worst month of the pandemic for new COVID-19 cases. → https://is.gd/YRY6RG | 23:24 |
| nixonix | its possible, with enhanced b-cell maturation in germinal centers (maybe with the right adjuvants, which seem to do the trick in flu vaccines) | 23:24 |
| LjL | i suspect it's also largely possible by just targeting the relevant variant | 23:25 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Reddit bans anti-vaccine subreddit r/NoNewNormal after site-wide protest → https://is.gd/vd8UEE | 23:26 |
| nixonix | then comes the next variant | 23:26 |
| nixonix | french guiana (really? with "i"?) and costa rica 12%, equador 6%, the rest <=3% (but prob way too little sequenced to be sure) | 23:32 |
| imaginary | nixonix: no sequencing done in guatemala for sure | 23:32 |
| nixonix | *eCuador | 23:33 |
| LjL | just don't call them equadoreños | 23:34 |
| nixonix | like kids that ending? | 23:34 |
| nixonix | or little | 23:35 |
| nixonix | ...inho in brazils portugese i think | 23:35 |
| nixonix | i guess i didnt get that joke, google isnt helpful | 23:36 |
| nixonix | l | 23:36 |
| nixonix | -l | 23:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Turkey: +23262 cases (now 6.4 million), +290 deaths (now 57000), +302869 tests (now 76.7 million) since 16 hours ago | 23:39 |
| LjL | it's a thing italians say that's irksome | 23:39 |
| nixonix | no, that outbreak map i was watching wasnt for the last few weeks, but for longer time or total. lets see how i could see the recent shares of delta | 23:43 |
| nixonix | yep, i already tried with other presentations. no can do, only by country | 23:44 |
| trbp | is that news i heard about a resistent µ variant true? | 23:44 |
| imaginary | de-facto: thanks for clearing that up for me | 23:45 |
| de-facto | pre delta is when other variants are more relevant, but the time when delta makes most problems (i.e. contribute more than any other variants) and is not on decline I would call that delta area, until... until the next bad mutant takes over | 23:47 |
| imaginary | yeah that makes sense | 23:50 |
| LjL | trbp, it's been classed as a "variant of interest". any information you hear about it for now will be tentative | 23:50 |
| trbp | LjL: news read and heard about are overrating again i guess, like everytime it is again doomsday time | 23:51 |
| LjL | trbp, at some point a variant that will make things trickier than Delta will arrive. whether it is this one i would say is way too early to say | 23:52 |
| trbp | ljl, i guess all were expecting that sooner or later anyways... | 23:53 |
| LjL | trbp, are you better? i think i read they didn't actually find anything with your heart in the end | 23:53 |
| nixonix | any difference found yet with AY.4 sub-lineage? | 23:54 |
| nixonix | functional, evasion, transmission | 23:54 |
| trbp | LjL: i am better, whatever happened though seem to have happend because i still have some kind of pressure feeling on the chest, pity is just that i do not get a date with a cardiolog before end of october maybe begining of november... at least that was what was told me, i still did not get a concrete date though, wondering if i got forgotten... | 23:57 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1433128096996134916 | 23:57 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): "Indeed, Mu (B.1.621) has a growth disadvantage of 11% per day [5-16% 95% CLs] relative to Delta based on a multinomial fit to the GISAID data from Colombia. I see [...] | 23:57 |
| LjL | trbp, did you get an ultrasound or something done by the ER? | 23:57 |
| twomoon | I am so glad trbp is on the mend | 23:58 |
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