| TurboTech | Want to talk about contradictory. | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| TurboTech | .title https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination | 00:05 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: From www.nebraskamed.com: COVID-19 studies: natural immunity versus vaccination | Nebraska Medicine Omaha, NE | 00:05 |
| TurboTech | .title https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/ | 00:05 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: From www.washingtonpost.com: - The Washington Post | 00:05 |
| nixonix | otherwise looked decent enough, exp this imo: "How soon is too soon to get vaccinated after you're sick with COVID-19? If you're no longer sick and out of isolation, you should get vaccinated." | 00:09 |
| nixonix | waiting longer possibly improves b-cell affinity maturation. some countries recommend 3 months, which should be ok. a bit shorter perhaps if mild infection and lots of cases around | 00:10 |
| TurboTech | The CDC is stating that the Vaccine is more effective than the vaccine. I am not saying do not get vaccinated. The problem is that the Data being posted lately is saying that those who contracted the virus have a pretty damn good immune system and have not gotten it again. | 00:12 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/Supermansings/status/1438175851707867143 especially wait, maybe 2 months or more, if got monoclonals. check the comments in the thread | 00:14 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix, the URL could not be loaded | 00:14 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/Supermansings/status/1438175851707867143 | 00:14 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: JAFERD, MD🇺🇸 (@Supermansings): "Triple vaccinated, native infection, antibodies infused. When this is all over, I better develop some superpowers." | nitter | 00:14 |
| nixonix | theres not much proper reinfection studies, mostly pre delta or even alpha. it seems to happen a lot now with delta. they used to be rare, not anymore | 00:16 |
| nixonix | then if you dont get systemic infection, but only upper respiratory, you dont necessarily get other than some mucosal fast waning abs perhaps | 00:17 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/longestrecovery/status/1438620056720576516 thread mostly about long covid, but something on breakthroughs too. interesting info that study mentioned, by an immunologist | 00:21 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: longest recovery (@longestrecovery): "We had to scream for a year for them to study just the vaccine effects on long covid patients with still no results to date. At least Akiko Iwasaki is working on [...] | 00:21 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00575-4/fulltext pre delta | 00:23 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.thelancet.com: Assessment of protection against reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 among 4 million PCR-tested individuals in Denmark in 2020: a population-level observational study - The Lancet | 00:23 |
| nixonix | then there were those studies, that found prob more than representative amounts of no antibodies among pcr positive, meaning special cases like close contacts of cases. one 36%, one 85% etc, ljl might have links in his collection | 00:26 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/Metadoc/status/1437108442972528651 | 00:28 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Paul Hunter (@Metadoc): "I did not account for the fact that 24% of people with proven infections do not develop Ab (higher in people with mild or asymptomatic infection as in most younger peope) [...] | 00:28 |
| nixonix | S:T95I does what? | 00:30 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.13.21263292v1?rss=1 just found, havent looked at yet. turbo | 00:32 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Persistent oxidative stress and inflammasome activation in CD14highCD16- monocytes from COVID-19 patients | medRxiv | 00:32 |
| nixonix | " In addition, we found that NLRP3 inflammasome-derived IL-1β secretion by SARS-CoV-2-exposed monocytes in vitro was partially dependent on lipid peroxidation | 00:33 |
| rpifan | sigh | 00:38 |
| rpifan | against my better judgement | 00:38 |
| rpifan | i may need to get vaccinate almost immeidately | 00:38 |
| rpifan | which is the least worse vaccine | 00:38 |
| rpifan | i only need one shot anyway | 00:38 |
| lastshell | how old are you rpifan ? | 00:40 |
| rpifan | 34 | 00:40 |
| rpifan | ive got lots of associated complications | 00:40 |
| rpifan | and reduced kidney function | 00:40 |
| lastshell | damn | 00:41 |
| rpifan | and llong term illnesses | 00:41 |
| rpifan | and such | 00:41 |
| lastshell | I guess you need to talk to your general doctor | 00:41 |
| rpifan | but theres some smart ppl in here | 00:41 |
| rpifan | that look at the data constantly | 00:41 |
| rpifan | id rather trust them | 00:41 |
| rpifan | plus the opinion of the dr of course | 00:42 |
| ublx | we don't know your complications, and are hardly qualified to integrate those concerns with drug/vaccine interaction concerns | 00:45 |
| rpifan | well the dr mentioned the germans | 00:46 |
| rpifan | but he is a german | 00:46 |
| rpifan | as he least worst one | 00:46 |
| nixonix | theres only one md here, and nerds are not allowed to give medical advice | 00:46 |
| rpifan | yeaa i know | 00:46 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210830/COVID-19-vaccine-elicits-antibody-responses-in-nearly-9-out-of-10-people-taking-immunosuppressants.aspx | 00:46 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.news-medical.net: COVID-19 vaccine elicits antibody responses in nearly 9 out of 10 people taking immunosuppressants | 00:46 |
| rpifan | hmm | 00:46 |
| rpifan | of coures yo ucant give medical advice | 00:46 |
| rpifan | but whats the data say in general | 00:46 |
| nixonix | we can find you some studies, if you tell what kind info you are looking for. vaccines and suitability with serious allergies or something perhaps | 00:47 |
| rpifan | well i suppose im more concered about long term damage to toher body parts | 00:48 |
| nixonix | what ive seen, there are very few people that cant or possibly shouldnt get mrna vax, very small minority. perhaps longer time spent on premises after the shot, just in case | 00:48 |
| nixonix | the proplems are usually the other way, too weak immune response for some | 00:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/how-dr-arwady-responds-to-those-worried-about-vaccines-long-term-side-effects/2520299/ here's the most important in that article on long term adverse effects | 00:49 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nbcchicago.com: How Dr. Arwady Responds to Those Worried About Long-Term Side Effects With Vaccines – NBC Chicago | 00:49 |
| rpifan | but arent they all pro vaccines anyway | 00:51 |
| rpifan | no one really says there is a 10 percent chance of X | 00:51 |
| rpifan | everyone just brushes everything off | 00:51 |
| nixonix | not single confirmed deaths caused by these western approved mrna vaxes, excluding old and fragile (which usually cant be confirmed, if immune reaction by vax had some part in their death) | 00:52 |
| LjL | nixonix, tbf most MDs with a grain of salt know it's *even worse* if they give medical advice over the internet than if a random nerd does | 00:52 |
| nixonix | not from myocarditis, not from allergic reaction. one suspected case recently in nz, but middle-aged woman, so not likely | 00:53 |
| LjL | because there isn't a 10% chance of X, for most X | 00:56 |
| LjL | of any consequence | 00:56 |
| LjL | and the things with consequence, the % is so low it's really hard to give a number | 00:56 |
| LjL | i would be happier if they had bigger X's but also protected from COVID, like, a lot better ;( | 00:57 |
| rpifan | understandable LjL | 00:59 |
| rpifan | but u dont u think one vaccine may have slight differene then the other | 00:59 |
| lastshell | does novavax still in clinical trials ? | 01:00 |
| LjL | slight? | 01:00 |
| LjL | AZ has like tons of differences compared to mRNA vaccines | 01:00 |
| LjL | it works less, but it might work for longer, it has fewer side effects for older people on average, but more for younger people | 01:01 |
| LjL | it has the infamous though rare CVST issue, which the mRNA vaccine only have at a level below significance, while those have rare though less rare but also hopefully less severe most of the time cardiac issues | 01:01 |
| LjL | Moderna appears more effective than Pfizer in current studies, though there could be hidden biases to that | 01:02 |
| rpifan | i thought AZ was an mrna vaccine | 01:02 |
| pwr22 | It is not | 01:02 |
| LjL | mRNA is involved, but that's not what it's called | 01:02 |
| pwr22 | It's an adenovirus one | 01:02 |
| specing | myocarditis is also more frequent in younger people | 01:02 |
| specing | from mRNA | 01:02 |
| LjL | yes | 01:02 |
| rpifan | whats the difference then | 01:02 |
| pwr22 | magic | 01:02 |
| LjL | that an adenovirus is not a strand of RNA | 01:02 |
| pwr22 | And chimpanzees | 01:03 |
| LjL | in an adenovirus-vector vaccine, you get injected some type of adenovirus that has been modified to 1) not replicate itself and 2) produce a SARS-COV-2-like spike protein in your cells | 01:03 |
| specing | in other words, genetic engineering :D | 01:04 |
| lastshell | I was going to joke about 5g :P | 01:04 |
| rpifan | so so AZ was the only one that was different? | 01:04 |
| nixonix | british waning results on az didnt look too good. although still missing info on smaller age groups, esp 70-79 vs severe | 01:05 |
| lastshell | just personal datapoints I got pfizer (37) just arm pain 1 or 2 days, a cousing got AZ, 35 fiber and pain for couple of days | 01:06 |
| nixonix | just get moderna. or if really young male terrible worried about mostly mild myocarditises, then pfizer that has smaller doses | 01:06 |
| specing | rpifan: moderna,biontech are mRNA; AZ, J&J and sputnik are adenovirus vector; Sinopharm and Sinovac ones are deactivated covid | 01:06 |
| rpifan | i really wante dteh deactive cvoid | 01:07 |
| nixonix | terribly | 01:07 |
| specing | rpifan: wheer are you? | 01:07 |
| rpifan | yea pfizer seems to be the least worse | 01:07 |
| rpifan | Germoney | 01:07 |
| nixonix | those inactivated virus vaccines are weak, and likely more adverse effects because they have N and E proteins | 01:08 |
| nixonix | and adjuvant (which might mean better b-cell maturation, but depends on adjuvant) | 01:08 |
| specing | rpifan: you can go to serbia then, they are vaccinating foreigners | 01:08 |
| rpifan | yea | 01:08 |
| rpifan | i was in serbia in fact | 01:08 |
| specing | hah | 01:08 |
| rpifan | but idk if they will recognize that vaccine in DE | 01:09 |
| lastshell | is there covid passports in DE ? | 01:09 |
| specing | they will, otherwise chinese business will be hampered | 01:09 |
| LjL-Matrix | <LjL> in an adenovirus-vector vaccine, you get injected some type of adenovirus that has been modified to 1) not replicate itself and 2) produce a SARS-COV-2-like spike protein in your cells... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/cb4dc822a2157b9144c5c63925d4f7ef8a88b882) | 01:09 |
| rpifan | yea | 01:09 |
| rpifan | there is a covid passport thing | 01:09 |
| LjL-Matrix | lastshell: "COVID passports" (EU vaccine certificates) exist EU-wide, then not all countries enforce them for the same things, or even at all | 01:11 |
| specing | rpifan: so check your gov pages | 01:11 |
| lastshell | thanks LjL-Matrix for the novavax info and passports | 01:11 |
| LjL-Matrix | yeah, my IRC connection is gone because my internet is gone, but I thought I'd repost | 01:12 |
| nixonix | did you make your internet mad | 01:13 |
| rpifan | yea we are using the eu vaccine cert | 01:13 |
| rpifan | i dont think serbia is connected to that gateway | 01:13 |
| LjL-Matrix | Meh, they made me mad. I had a perfectly working 10Mbps fiber but since "upgrading" it to this 1Gbps micro-fiber that I can't even make full use of, I have lots more outages | 01:14 |
| rpifan | i think the one last question really to make a decision for me | 01:14 |
| rpifan | is | 01:14 |
| rpifan | will novavax be available in the EU before feb | 01:14 |
| nixonix | copper fiber | 01:14 |
| LjL-Matrix | doubtful | 01:14 |
| LjL-Matrix | nixonix: no it's actually all optical to the router, but it can still suck | 01:15 |
| nixonix | here they call those fiber, that are actually not FBTH | 01:15 |
| rpifan | in theory ive got until february to get vaccine before it all starts again | 01:15 |
| rpifan | but im being pushed hard to get vaxed asap and if novavax wont be here before feb then no poin in watign | 01:15 |
| nixonix | *FTTH | 01:15 |
| rpifan | i miss lockdwon so much | 01:16 |
| rpifan | my life was so much easier and better | 01:17 |
| rpifan | and i didnt have to get any vaccionation or see ppl | 01:17 |
| nixonix | where they going to manufacture novavax? | 01:17 |
| LjL-Matrix | oh look who's here | 01:18 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/hjelle_brian/status/1437825117103419394 i dont know if he got this wrong, or has some information (virologist on novavax and delta) | 01:21 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Brian Hjelle, virologist (@hjelle_brian): "I love the stuff but it's only 50% vs delta which kinda broke my heart ❤." | El Pajarito de NoGAFAM | 01:21 |
| nixonix | Brainstorm ask Hjelle what did he mean, because they havent released information on its efficacy vs delta | 01:23 |
| LjL | eh well, it was 60% on Beta, wasn't it | 01:24 |
| LjL | the truth is the vaccine all kinda suck against Delta, but they still suck considerably less than no vaccine | 01:24 |
| nixonix | delta is less immune evasive, in all but one study (which wasnt proper cell culture assay probably) | 01:25 |
| nixonix | and every approved vax is affected by beta by a lot | 01:26 |
| rpifan | actually iv got a question | 01:27 |
| rpifan | is there anyway to call the ppl who make novavax and ask them when they think theyll be on the market | 01:27 |
| LjL | that's extremely unlikely | 01:28 |
| LjL | this is market-sensitive info that they wouldn't just give away because you ask | 01:28 |
| LjL | assuming they even have it | 01:28 |
| nixonix | public. all the investors at the same time | 01:28 |
| rpifan | darn it | 01:28 |
| rpifan | i really need this to make an informed decision | 01:29 |
| LjL | no, you really need to get a goddam vaccine that's available now | 01:29 |
| lastshell | lmao | 01:29 |
| LjL | and it's ridiculous you're still wasting time after even getting COVID | 01:29 |
| LjL | just because you survived it it confirms that the vaccine is more dangerous or something? | 01:29 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.takeda.com/newsroom/newsreleases/2021/takeda-to-manufacture-and-provide-150-million-doses-of-novavax-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-to-the-government-of-japan/ | 01:29 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.takeda.com: Takeda to Manufacture and Provide 150 Million Doses of Novavax’ COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate to the Government of Japan | 01:29 |
| rpifan | vaccine candidate? | 01:30 |
| rpifan | interesting | 01:30 |
| nixonix | not approved yet | 01:30 |
| specing | rpifan: got any side effects from covid? Tired constantly? | 01:30 |
| nixonix | applying eua in usa this month, next month in eu, or something like that if i recall | 01:31 |
| lastshell | swollen balls :P | 01:31 |
| lastshell | rpifan so you got covid ? | 01:32 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/06/us/politics/novavax-coronavirus-vaccine.html 5 weeks old | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nytimes.com: Novavax Says U.S. Will Pause Funding for Production of Its Vaccine - The New York Times | 01:32 |
| nixonix | thats a shame, we should test adjuvanted vaccines in population asap. maybe the planned south korea deal went with u.s. support too | 01:35 |
| rpifan | i did get covid | 01:40 |
| lastshell | how bad was for you ? | 01:40 |
| rpifan | well i thought it was fairly bad but the ni realilzed that the issue was the A/C was still running | 01:41 |
| rpifan | and thats why i was so cold | 01:41 |
| lastshell | maybe the cold help you | 01:42 |
| rpifan | i had / have had a lot of fevers in my lifef | 01:42 |
| rpifan | the dr said dont let yourself get to cold | 01:42 |
| rpifan | take a lukewarm shower if your temp goes up | 01:42 |
| rpifan | i always get fever, so the | 01:42 |
| rpifan | AC made it worse | 01:42 |
| Juerd | I prefer to use paracetamol (aka acetaminophen, tylenol) to combat fevers | 01:43 |
| rpifan | yea but im really fever prone | 01:44 |
| rpifan | the tylenol works but not the whole way | 01:44 |
| Juerd | Correct | 01:44 |
| rpifan | a lukewarm shower tends to push it down a lot more with tylenol of course | 01:44 |
| Raf[m] | You should use aspirin for covid though | 01:44 |
| Juerd | Probably good because otherwise you'd probably do normal things like go to stores etc | 01:44 |
| rpifan | if it were tylenol id be dead for sure | 01:44 |
| Raf[m] | It's a Cox-2 inhibitor helps stabilize immune response | 01:44 |
| rpifan | interesting | 01:45 |
| LjL | let's see if i can stay connected for more than three minutes | 01:47 |
| * rpifan counts | 01:48 | |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1438265027337887749 should have slept on my german classes, but they were so boring | 01:48 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Irene Tosetti (@itosettiMD_MBA): "Horror strategies of mass infection for children in schools in Switzerland are based on medieval ideology and NOT on science" | 42l - nitter | 01:48 |
| nixonix | *shouldnt | 01:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/DryburghDotCom/status/1438240323260534798 noticed when leonardi retweeted this to a few of his buddies | 02:05 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Lee S Dryburgh (@DryburghDotCom): "Slovenia started the medical apartheid today (unvaxxed can only buy groceries, nothing else e.g. coffee outdoors, haircuts, clothes). I left the protest when the [...] | 02:05 |
| nixonix | well not retweeted, called them to the thread | 02:07 |
| LjL | is this something that goes further than green pass requirements? | 02:07 |
| LjL | specifically only vaccinated? | 02:07 |
| LjL | also "medical apartheid" makes total sense as a term, because getting vaccinated is not a choice unlike being black | 02:08 |
| * LjL rolls eyes | 02:08 | |
| nixonix | i only know what was in a tweet, and we have a slovenian here | 02:08 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/ZiikZiiii/status/1438578147558109185 | 02:08 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Zara 👩🏻🔬👩🏻⚕️🚨🦠🧠☠️🚨 (@ZiikZiiii): "“Thanks god kids got infected and we are a bit relieved”, friend said. 😳 My friends need to read more. And no I have not sent the brain hypometabolism paper which I [...] | 02:08 |
| nixonix | .title https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00259-021-05528-4 probably meant this one | 02:14 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From link.springer.com: Similar patterns of [18F]-FDG brain PET hypometabolism in paediatric and adult patients with long COVID: a paediatric case series | SpringerLink | 02:14 |
| rpifan | well | 02:51 |
| rpifan | does slovenia also have the recovered option like germany? | 02:51 |
| rpifan | im not sure if thats an option all over europe or not | 02:51 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Protection of BNT162b2 Vaccine Booster against Covid-19 in Israel ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/X4AXGGK2 ) | 02:55 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Elicitation of broadly protective sarbecovirus immunity by receptor-binding domain nanoparticle vaccines ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/3PV263BC ) | 02:55 | |
| LjL | rpifan, i don't know, we do, we also have the "got a test within the past 48 hours" option | 02:58 |
| rpifan | well tests are not allowed anymore in germany | 02:59 |
| rpifan | for the 2g option | 02:59 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Booster protection against confirmed infections and severe disease - data from Israel ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/IB7HJ8IR ) | 03:00 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Application for licensure of a booster dose for COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/KAV4SILD ) | 03:00 | |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Booster protection against confirmed infections and severe disease - data from Israel ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/VVU4IWZI ) | 03:00 | |
| LjL | rpifan, "2g option"? | 03:03 |
| rpifan | only geimpft and genensen | 03:04 |
| rpifan | it used to be 3g | 03:04 |
| rpifan | with getested | 03:04 |
| rpifan | but that is being phased out | 03:04 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: The @IsraelMOH will be presenting at the @US_FDA meeting tomorrow on boosters. Their data are compelling evidence for the benefit for age 60 and greater to prevent severe disease, and for safety https://fda.gov/media/152205/download https://t.co/e3cVIQbHU1 ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/KJWKLLVP ) | 03:05 | |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1438629181810749441 this honestly looks like when i clip the audio in a recording | 03:07 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Prof Francois Balloux (@BallouxFrancois): "Natasha and Ivan, I leave you in charge of the dashboard, I trust you to act as professionals. No need to minimise covid deaths in Russia, but Vladimir would [...] | 03:07 |
| lastshell | https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-seeks-halt-teen-vaccines-some-state-governors-resist-2021-09-16/ | 18:14 |
| lastshell | I also read some news about one in texas | 18:15 |
| lastshell | https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/alaska-highest-vaccination-rate-now-covid-19-crisis/story?id=80037643 | 20:09 |
| IndoAnon | > mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination and Development of CMR-confirmed Myopericarditis https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.13.21262182v1 > Incidence of myopericarditis overall was approximately 10 cases for every 10,000 innoculations. | 20:15 |
| IndoAnon | ONE IN EVERY THOUSAND | 20:15 |
| LjL | "Symptoms settled quickly with standard therapy and patients were discharged within a few days. No major adverse cardiac events and no significant arrhythmias were noted during inpatient stay. Further follow up will be required to ascertain the longer-term outcomes of this patient group." | 20:21 |
| LjL | it's not a reassuring finding, but it's definitely not on the same level as the CVST events | 20:24 |
| TurboTech | 1 in a thousand. | 20:28 |
| TurboTech | Ehhh | 20:28 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination and Development of CMR-confirmed Myopericarditis ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/9I5UCA93 ) | 20:28 | |
| LjL | it's not minuscule | 20:29 |
| LjL | i don't think i can comment on the quality of the study though so i expect we'll hear from Twitter Experts | 20:30 |
| LjL | speaking of which the bot doesn't seem to be posting them | 20:30 |
| LjL | nor the daily numbers | 20:30 |
| TurboTech | I found out some interesting data | 20:32 |
| TurboTech | In my circle | 20:33 |
| TurboTech | many in my lab are out due to covid. I guy I work with, his entire family had it and he never came down with it. | 20:34 |
| TurboTech | He also did not isolate. | 20:34 |
| nixonix | maybe he got asymptomatic infection | 20:35 |
| TurboTech | We did multiple PCR tests on him. All negative even at higher cycles. | 20:35 |
| nixonix | i guess not then, if the timing was right | 20:36 |
| nixonix | maybe his innate immune reponse somehow beat it | 20:36 |
| TurboTech | But it would still have had to get into his nasopharynx to stimulate the innate immune function. | 20:37 |
| TurboTech | No one on my shift has gotten it. | 20:37 |
| nixonix | possibly it did so early, so that not significant amounts of virions were produced | 20:38 |
| TurboTech | He is also the main phlebotomist for the Covid unit. | 20:39 |
| nixonix | i was thinking those long covid brain hypometabolisms. what could cause it? link to lewy bodies? | 20:39 |
| nixonix | other than actual viral infection of brain cells (if its rare) | 20:40 |
| nixonix | turbo, since you know about cellular metabolism, ideas? | 20:43 |
| nixonix | t-cell infiltration? other reasons? | 20:44 |
| nixonix | .title https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00259-021-05215-4 | 20:45 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From link.springer.com: 18F-FDG brain PET hypometabolism in patients with long COVID | SpringerLink | 20:45 |
| nixonix | .title https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00259-021-05528-4 | 20:45 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From link.springer.com: Similar patterns of [18F]-FDG brain PET hypometabolism in paediatric and adult patients with long COVID: a paediatric case series | SpringerLink | 20:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Taliban say Afghan boys’ schools to reopen, no mention of girls → https://is.gd/ekdhV4 | 20:55 |
| pwr22 | Hmm 1/1000 is three orders of magnitude off any of the other studies along those lines (mRNA side effects) | 20:56 |
| pwr22 | What's going on in Ottawa 😄 | 20:56 |
| MerlinMp[m] | <TurboTech> "He is also the main phlebotomist..." <- Just curious if you know his blood group - some time ago there was discussion if theres any correlation | 20:58 |
| nixonix | theres always been those family members who never got it, for whatever reason | 20:58 |
| nixonix | one might be, that they have had infection earlier, and had some kind of immunity. abs might have been below assay sensitivity, but maybe their cellular immunity was strong enough, with innate and those small amounts continually secreted abs, that they prevent reinfection | 21:02 |
| nixonix | immunity works in mysterious ways | 21:02 |
| TurboTech | As a blood banker I think that has just been coincidental. | 21:02 |
| TurboTech | I am B positive. I should have picked it up. | 21:03 |
| nixonix | also the above might explain those normal than higher levels of asymptomatic infections among close contacts. they had previous immunity | 21:03 |
| TurboTech | I know that we on the shift are all off sugar as much as possible and are all taking Antioxidants. | 21:04 |
| TurboTech | Even the fat people are not getting it. | 21:04 |
| TurboTech | Diabetic fat too | 21:04 |
| TurboTech | So check this out. | 21:05 |
| nixonix | "On a more exploratory and preliminary way, the metabolism of the frontal cluster which included the olfactory gyrus was worse in the 7 patients treated by ACE drugs for high blood pressure, and better in the only 3 patients that had used nasal decongestant spray | 21:06 |
| nixonix | theres something ive thought, when ACEis and ARBs might be beneficial against thromboses, they may make veins leak, which is bad | 21:07 |
| nixonix | so maybe virions have easier way to olfactory gyrus too, if ACEi is used. maybe also crossing the blood brain barrier | 21:09 |
| TurboTech | Ok | 21:10 |
| TurboTech | check this out. | 21:10 |
| TurboTech | .title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0140673667904941 | 21:10 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: From www.sciencedirect.com: FRUCTOSE-INDUCED HYPERURICÆMIA - ScienceDirect | 21:10 |
| TurboTech | This is from 1967 | 21:10 |
| nixonix | and another thing, virion capture straight through the endothelium, that has pIgR receptors, that work only with dimeric or polymeric IgA. that is present in mucosa | 21:10 |
| nixonix | and where else? intestines | 21:11 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.13.21263292v1?rss=1 you noticed this already turbo? | 21:14 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.medrxiv.org: Persistent oxidative stress and inflammasome activation in CD14highCD16- monocytes from COVID-19 patients | medRxiv | 21:14 |
| TurboTech | About NLRP3 inflammasome? | 21:14 |
| TurboTech | Yes I have been studying it for months | 21:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from FDA Press Releases: FDA: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: September 17, 2021 → https://is.gd/3vQaAL | 21:16 |
| TurboTech | This is why I am thinking it is related to sugar induced Uric Acid that upregulates Reactive oxygen species in endothelium and also reprograms the monocyte on a path toward inflammation. People with low vitamin D levels can not fight the NLRP3 inflammasome response which gives rise to Interlueken 1beta. | 21:17 |
| TurboTech | Let me see if I can post someting | 21:17 |
| TurboTech | Is there anywhere to post a photo or screen shot? | 21:24 |
| dTal | all kinds of places | 21:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: CDC: Moderna COVID vaccine most protective against hospital cases: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Sep 17, 2021 All FDA-approved vaccines, however, offer substantial protection against hospitalization. → https://is.gd/ZGuUxx | 21:27 |
| TurboTech | I wrote this a few weeks ago. My works cited page is not attached. | 21:28 |
| TurboTech | https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/242264838_129867426009602_6314652144499073223_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=YmQVPeKzM_sAX9gkeJ0&tn=yeEMOAqrJ6dhp_0z&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=23bb028f0f7ae3cc1f67cdf594710daf&oe=616A2A70 | 21:28 |
| TurboTech | In the study you posted they did not mention the uric acid. Just that Covid effects the nlrp3 which in turn signals Caspace1 to produce IL1b | 21:34 |
| TurboTech | My argument is we set our immune systems up by weakening it with our diets laden in sugar without antioxidents. Covid just exploits the weakness and takes the long term problems and speeds them up immensly. | 21:35 |
| TurboTech | Medicine refuses to look at it and this is the reason why I think everyone on my shift did not come down with Covid. We all lowered our sugar intake and increase our anti oxidants which lowers oxidative stress in endothelium and raises nitric oxide. At the same time we give the monocyte the support it needs to provide better immune function. | 21:37 |
| LjL | pwr22, well i don't know what is going on, but do you know how the other studies were performed? one thing is waiting for vaccinated people to report an adverse effect, another is (like they did in this study) looking at every hospitalization that resulted in a (myo|peri)carditis diagnosis and then checking if they were vaccinated | 21:38 |
| TurboTech | I have not seen a diagnosis of myocarditis in my facility | 21:38 |
| TurboTech | Not that I am aware of. | 21:38 |
| LjL | TurboTech, if you're right about fructose, good thing my mom has just bought a slow juicer | 21:38 |
| TurboTech | Check this out. | 21:41 |
| TurboTech | "The impact of elevated fructose exposure on the immune system has not been investigated extensively. Chronic fructose exposure in rats results in a more inflammatory phenotype of bone marrow mononuclear cells16. While there is some evidence that lipopolysaccharide (LPS)-stimulated human dendritic cells are able to produce enhanced levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines when cultured in fructose as opposed to glucose, the underlying m | 21:41 |
| TurboTech | abolic rewiring that enables this pro-inflammatory phenotype has not been investigated17." | 21:41 |
| TurboTech | Ok | 21:41 |
| TurboTech | Now lets go back to nix study. | 21:41 |
| TurboTech | "We observed that COVID-19 patients displayed a striking depletion of the patrolling CD14lowCD16+ 23 subset (Figure 1A-B) accompanied by enrichment of the CD14highCD16- 24 classical/inflammatory monocytes compared It is made available under a CC-BY-NC-ND 4.0 International license . preprint (which was not certified by peer review) is the author/funder, who has granted medRxiv a license to display the preprint in perpetuity. medRxiv | 21:42 |
| TurboTech | eprint doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.09.13.21263292; this version posted September 16, 2021. The copyright holder for this 9 to HCs (Figure 1A and 1C). Moreover, CD14highCD16- 1 classical monocytes" | 21:42 |
| nixonix | it had also about possibility of infected monocytes (which hasnt been proved, in "productive" way) | 21:43 |
| TurboTech | In the nutshell it comes down to how the monocyte signals. is it performing correctly or is it rewired | 21:45 |
| TurboTech | If it can not get in the monocyte how does it exploit the NLRP3? It has to be able to. I agree with the study. | 21:46 |
| TurboTech | So in my mind if we control the nlrp3 inflammasome which according to research we can with diet. Then we might be able to win the war. | 21:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Experts Advising FDA Vote Against Pfizer COVID Booster: A panel of advisers to the Food and Drug Administration voted against a booster dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine be licensed for people 16 years and older. → https://is.gd/kyCK1b | 21:48 |
| TurboTech | Thank you for that study. It provided a missing link. | 21:48 |
| nixonix | is it about the share of inflammatory monocytes, and oxidative stress or complement activation causes it? | 21:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33788899/ | 21:51 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Classical complement and inflammasome activation converge in CD14highCD16- monocytes in HIV associated TB-immune reconstitution inflammatory syndrome - PubMed | 21:51 |
| TurboTech | Well if the monocytes are reprogrammed before covid can infect them and alredydisplay oxidative phenotype then covid probably increases the inflammasome. If you understand what happens in the inflammasome it can only hold so much before it loses its covering. When it explodes it sets off a cascade. | 21:52 |
| TurboTech | This is wonderful check this out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci7c9ial_rs | 21:53 |
| nixonix | damn if i need to read HIV papers too. i already looked at a few when tried to learn more about IgA | 21:54 |
| nixonix | "But presentations Friday generally showed the vaccine was still effective in protecting immunized people against severe illness, hospitalization and death in the U.S. | 21:58 |
| nixonix | "Separately, however, an analysis published Friday in CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report found that the Pfizer vaccine's protection against hospitalization with COVID-19 dropped from 91% during the 120 days after vaccination to 77% later than that | 21:58 |
| * indoanon[m] uploaded an image: (169KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/qOrRuatYbPbRzlVqOLcTLjev/1631908053707.jpg > | 21:59 | |
| nixonix | sure reduce in transmission should be a big factor too, especially when most kids are not vaccinated | 21:59 |
| indoanon[m] | <pwr22> "Hmm 1/1000 is three orders of..." <- Told 'ya | 22:00 |
| Spec_ | nixonix: 77% against severe hospitalization? :( | 22:00 |
| nixonix | maybe it was about those israeli slides. should be looked at age group stratified, though | 22:01 |
| * indoanon[m] uploaded an image: (1412KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/nTGtzPrAEFPfLXnwTYJdvjTk/1631907063266.png > | 22:02 | |
| nixonix | and uk data, when theres ambiguity between PHE's age group denominators - and some tweeters that used ONS data, who knows whats the truth | 22:02 |
| nixonix | using PHE's numbers the protection vs hospitalization looked to wane almost like in israel (funny if PHE wouldnt have got it right, imo), but with those tweeters using ONS numbers, 70-79 yo had VE vs hospitalization down to 86% | 22:03 |
| nixonix | in around 4.75 months i think | 22:04 |
| nixonix | with 12 week interval | 22:04 |
| nixonix | pfizer. worse with AZ | 22:05 |
| nixonix | so FDA panel's decision seems politically motivated imo (other world needs to be vaxed first, despite waning protection in their country). especially when dismissing reduced transmission | 22:07 |
| nixonix | btw USA made 500M dose deal with pfizer, to used in Covax | 22:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): There will be a new question, likely with the age 60 cutoff, that is likely to get near unanimous support.(Reminder: The UK went ahead with an age 50 cutoff this week for all vaccines).Left unaddressed is the vulnerable frontline health care workforce → https://is.gd/uiOymk | 22:09 |
| * indoanon[m] uploaded an image: (157KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/NxyJuimnYhdGkxZukNKneyLc/1631908526647.jpg > | 22:09 | |
| * indoanon[m] uploaded an image: (232KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/EviqzTRalfMARnzkqrmYSXgg/1631908661143.jpg > | 22:09 | |
| * indoanon[m] uploaded an image: (200KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/qCfkIvxAByuSeVNXMzASTURG/1631909075343.jpg > | 22:10 | |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/denise_dewald/status/1438837550148472834 | 22:14 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Denise Dewald, MD 🗽 (@denise_dewald): "They are preparing to triage children to either potentially life-saving treatment, or comfort care 😢" | nitter | 22:14 |
| nixonix | canada | 22:15 |
| IndoAnon | nixonix: What can go wrong, will go wrong | 22:17 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/GermHunterMD/status/1438886338695077892 i think canada is up to EU cases now, but since there's delay for hospitalizations and ICU, they used to have lower daily numbers recently | 22:19 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Ilan Schwartz MD PhD (@GermHunterMD): "For a jarring glimpse into Canadian ICUs right now, watch this vid. Similar scenes are occurring in ICUs in Alberta. Note the 30-40 year old, previously healthy, [...] | 22:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: Andy Becker: AnGes: AG0302-COVID19 → https://is.gd/vxnUZO | 22:20 |
| TurboTech | You can't see endothelial dysfinction so people can look healthy and still be addicted to sugar. | 22:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: Andy Becker: Bagheiat-allah University of Medical Sciences: COVID-19 Recombinant RBD Protein Vaccine → https://is.gd/7u1GtD | 22:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Now a unanimous vote in favor of 65 and older and people at high-risk for severe covid (which gives room for interpretation). OK, that's progress. 👍 twitter.com/EricTopol/stat… → https://is.gd/XfSj4U | 22:41 |
| nixonix | "reduction of DC3s and CD11c - AS-DCs as the specific correlates for adverse events, and the combination of two parameters successfully predicted the vaccinees who suffered from adverse effects | 22:47 |
| nixonix | oh, it was DC3, not CD3 as i read it... (which would have been type of regulatory t-cells helping to dampen the immune reaction) | 22:49 |
| nixonix | .title https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-916246/v1 | 22:49 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.researchsquare.com: Distinct immune cell dynamics mark adverse events and antibody responses of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccine | Research Square | 22:49 |
| nixonix | apparently those are kind of crossover between nk cells and t-cells | 22:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Millions Could Soon Lose Medicaid Coverage Started During the Pandemic: If you enrolled in Medicaid during the pandemic, you could lose your coverage when the emergency declaration ends. → https://is.gd/1uJLaV | 23:02 |
| nixonix | please elzi, decide if you want to be in or out? | 23:33 |
| nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1438964935820816386 | 23:33 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing): "BREAKING—experts unanimously recommended #COVID19 booster be authorized for people 65 and older and those at high risk of severe disease—GOOD. However, voted against [...] | 23:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): A new, outstanding review of Covid-19 @Sciimmunology on how we can favorably modulate the immune response in people, learning from bats, which get only mild disease from #SARSCoV2 science.org/doi/10.1126/sc… pic.twitter.com/h1wz4Zj6jk → https://is.gd/gmLc1n | 23:44 |
| ublix | ratfink paywalls | 23:52 |
| nixonix | yeah. pdfs of those science issues can be found, though | 23:53 |
| ublix | release date today, though. could take a while | 23:53 |
| nixonix | it seems to have about timing of using those immunomodulators | 23:54 |
| LjL-Matrix | indoanon: those screenshots above without context, saying how you obtained them, who elaborated the data and were from are just scaremongering | 23:54 |
| LjL-Matrix | I'm not taking them as necessarily false information, I think the vaccines leave a lot to be desired, but that is not the way | 23:54 |
| LjL-Matrix | Also on the Matrix side honestly I don't really want to see the discussion dominated by big pictures | 23:54 |
| nixonix | mostly a guess, at the time: [Sunday, April 26, 2020] [1:38:59 AM EEST] <nixonix> individual treatment, and timing | 23:55 |
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