Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Mass brawls reported as pandemic restrictions are lifted in Norway → https://is.gd/I0rBHp | 00:00 |
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nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/LawtonTri/status/1441434149135523842 | 00:00 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: 𝚃𝚘𝚖 𝙻𝚊𝚠𝚝𝚘𝚗 💙 (@LawtonTri): "Our new preprint on hospital-acquired COVID-19 in NHS Trusts in England Based on the analyses we've been doing of HAIs in England. First the good news: rates have dropped, [...] | 00:00 |
nixonix | well if they havent brawled for awhile... | 00:01 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/drdeanjones/status/1436352065685573636 link to study in following tweets (been here prob) | 00:03 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Dean Jones (@drdeanjones): "Chance of myocarditis following Covid infection, M and F, 12-15 and 16-19 (based on US case data): M12-15: 601 per million (1 in 1664) M16-19: 561 per million (1 in 1783) [...] | 00:03 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/bachyns/status/1441756426628739072 another study, you remember this one | 00:05 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Dr Kathleen Bachynski (@bachyns): ""An inaccurate Canadian study suggesting an extremely high rate of heart inflammation after COVID-19 vaccines has been retracted due to a major mathematical error — [...] | 00:05 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/apsmunro/status/1441430002466234370 this was a great barrington dude, if i recall | 00:06 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Alasdair Munro (@apsmunro): "It's over 3 weeks since schools reopened in England after summer - what's happening in the #COVID19 data? I'll be honest with you, it's a mess I've got no idea what's [...] | 00:06 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: David Fisman (@DFisman): When we first started modeling covid in January 2020, it was clear based on an outbreak size of ~ 4000 (based on exports), an R of 2.3, and a plausible serial interval of 5-7 days, that this epidemic started earlier than December 2019acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m2… twitter.com/ydeigin/status… [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8YKcl9 | 00:11 |
LjL | nixonix, i certainly remember being perplexed at something suggesting 1/1000 heart inflammation, not sure if it was that one but seems likely | 00:19 |
LjL | Libera/##covid-19/2021-09-17.log:[20:15:08] <IndoAnon> > mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination and Development of CMR-confirmed Myopericarditis https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.13.21262182v1 > Incidence of myopericarditis overall was approximately 10 cases for every 10,000 innoculations. | 00:20 |
LjL | IndoAnon, you may want to check out https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-study-error-anti-vaxxers-1.6188806 on that study | 00:20 |
LjL | or just the retraction statement at https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.13.21262182v2 | 00:21 |
nixonix | .title https://view-hub.org/sites/default/files/2021-09/COVID19%20VE%20Studies_Forest%20Plots_1.pdf | 00:24 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From view-hub.org: Results of COVID-19 Vaccine Effectiveness Studies: An Ongoing Systematic Review Forest Plots (Melissa Higdon) | 00:24 |
nixonix | .title https://view-hub.org/resources was a bit hard to find the source of it, but here. maybe something interesting besides that one | 00:25 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From view-hub.org: Resource Library | ViewHub | 00:25 |
LjL | interesting if a little overwhelming view | 00:25 |
LjL | if only it had an rss feed :( | 00:26 |
LjL | they also have some vaccine maps https://view-hub.org/covid-19/?set=vaccine-product-current-planned&group=vaccine-introduction&category=covid | 00:26 |
LjL | nixonix, https://view-hub.org/covid-19/characteristics/ interesting, this has a short description of the cold chain requirements | 00:27 |
LjL | and i think this is the source for which studies they've used in that PDF https://view-hub.org/covid-19/studies/ | 00:28 |
nixonix | says -80 - -60 for pfizer. maybe not updated | 00:28 |
nixonix | sputnik needs a freezer unlike az | 00:30 |
nixonix | well, colder means longer time, might be just that | 00:30 |
nixonix | tell me if you find something interesting from tables of the first link | 00:31 |
LjL | yeah to know the details of how long you can keep it etc you will need something longer than these summaries | 00:32 |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: COVID19 Vaccine Efficacy Studies Forest Plots 1 ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/UEY3ZW48 ) | 00:32 | |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Covid-19 Vaccine Characteristics | ViewHub ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/NXP78TFT ) | 00:32 | |
nixonix | .title https://github.com/epiforecasts/covidregionaldata you prob have this one | 00:36 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From github.com: GitHub - epiforecasts/covidregionaldata: An interface to subnational and national level COVID-19 data. For all countries supported, this includes a daily time-series of cases. Wherever available we [...] | 00:36 |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Covid-19 Vaccine Studies | ViewHub ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/JJ52YWIV ) | 00:37 | |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Resource Library | ViewHub ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/VJ7AM5BC ) | 00:37 | |
LjL | yeah i have it, although i should probably change the way i link to the source code (it's in "Attachments" now), now that i've figured out how "Related" works in Zotero :P https://www.zotero.org/groups/4391070/covid_links/collections/84MP3SUX/items/E3WTDDAT/collection | 00:39 |
nixonix | .title https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates | 00:39 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.economist.com: The pandemic’s true death toll | The Economist | 00:39 |
nixonix | you can compare countries there. although prob not adjusted properly, considering trends (like in sweden excess deaths have gone down for like quarter century, so you cant use average of the last several years), the missing wintertime flu etc seasonal epidemics, summer time heat waves etc | 00:41 |
nixonix | those mentioned being the biggest ones i think, needing to adjust for | 00:42 |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Temporal variation in transmission during the COVID-19 outbreak ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/ETZ6829V ) | 00:42 | |
LjL | i have that one too, it's cool, it's behind soft paywall, but it does have a description of their methods AND the source code | 00:43 |
LjL | methodology https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/13/how-we-estimated-the-true-death-toll-of-the-pandemic code https://github.com/TheEconomist/covid-19-the-economist-global-excess-deaths-model | 00:44 |
nixonix | .title https://covid-19.sciensano.be/nl/covid-19-epidemiologische-situatie | 00:46 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From covid-19.sciensano.be: COVID-19 - Epidemiologische situatie | Coronavirus Covid-19 | 00:46 |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: The Economist's excess deaths model ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/875UN6Q3 ) | 00:47 | |
LjL | it's a bit annoying to use though this Zotero, unless i don't understand how to do some things, adding Related really only works from the standalone app, but then i have to use the online webapp to add new articles unless i use the browser plugin (which is the "intended" method, but if i do that it also stores the article body and i only have 100MB free storage) | 00:51 |
LjL | in the end it all works but just to add three articles and relate them together, i need to keep switching between browser, webapp and app | 00:51 |
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: How we estimated the true death toll of the pandemic ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/J3MNXNGX ) | 00:52 | |
nixonix | .title https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/codagenix-announces-safety-and-immunogenicity-data-from-phase-1-covid-19-intranasal-vaccine-trial-and-intent-to-progress-to-phase-23-studies-301382120.html live-attenuated nasal vax, furin site deleted (if it wakes alive for 1/100k, thats good) | 00:54 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.prnewswire.com: Codagenix Announces Safety and Immunogenicity Data from Phase 1 COVID-19 Intranasal Vaccine Trial and Intent to Progress to Phase 2/3 Studies | 00:54 |
LjL | de-facto, look an intranasal vaccine | 00:55 |
nixonix | .title https://www.pnas.org/content/118/29/e2102775118 the same one. i think | 00:57 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.pnas.org: Scalable live-attenuated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidate demonstrates preclinical safety and efficacy | PNAS | 00:57 |
nixonix | .title https://www.ft.com/content/1b884913-30cb-4b3e-9a2c-643287188387 https://archive.is/celV0 | 01:00 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.ft.com: Subscribe to read | Financial Times | 01:00 |
nixonix | *Covid cases among England’s schoolchildren hit record peak | 01:00 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : Add VIEW-hub vaccine page(s): Courtesy nixonix. There's no way to actually add the "entire vaccine thing" I guess, so I'm linking to the Characteristics page which is the most unique, but mentioning Studies as well → https://is.gd/0juZq2 | 01:05 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/DFisman/status/1442247978127958023 when case numbers were very small, its about luck how long it takes until it starts to spread like according to it's R (and even more, if the early strain was less adapted to the host) | 01:11 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: David Fisman (@DFisman): "When we first started modeling covid in January 2020, it was clear based on an outbreak size of ~ 4000 (based on exports), an R of 2.3, and a plausible serial interval of 5-7 [...] | 01:11 |
nixonix | wenseleers likes those live-attenuated nasal vaccines, because they can induce better and supposedly more lasting systemic IgG response than not-live vaxes | 01:17 |
nixonix | i think im good with improving (hopefully) im vaxes, and then oral non-live vaxes on top of them, for reducing the transmission efficiently. those live-attenuated ones prob needs as frequent boosting anyway, because IgA response fades fast | 01:18 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Guyana: +10 cases (now 30917), +1 deaths (now 755), +3529 tests (now 311955) since 21 hours ago | 01:30 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Covid2019: ‘I’ve Seen So Many People Die’: Relentless Stress, Frustration of Caring for Unvaccinated Takes Toll On Local Nurses → https://is.gd/Yiu7Bw | 02:20 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid has wiped out years of progress on life expectancy, finds study. Pandemic behind biggest fall in life expectancy in western Europe since second world war, say researchers. → https://is.gd/WEv1ml | 02:31 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +1243 cases (now 1.6 million), +9 deaths (now 27668) since 21 hours ago — United Kingdom: +24138 cases (now 7.7 million), +65 deaths (now 136318) since 21 hours ago | 02:32 |
lastshell | it seems India has some ivermectin kit for home use https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/coronavirus-all-adults-in-goa-to-be-given-ivermectin-drug/article34532312.ece / https://www.goa.gov.in/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Home-Isolation-Monitoring-Kits-For-COVID-19-Launched.pdf | 02:42 |
lastshell | Do we have some trials with Ivermectin ? | 02:43 |
specing | I see that they've figured out how to de-worm india under the cover of curing covid | 02:52 |
LjL | lol | 02:55 |
LjL | "lol" ;( | 02:55 |
specing | LjL: maybe we could administer covid vaccines under cover of curing headaches | 02:58 |
LjL | when they find out about the lie it'll be a huge headache | 03:02 |
lastshell | I guess if I works why not ? | 03:16 |
LjL | well i think it was a joke but seriously, because lies have always consistently backfired throughout this pandemic | 03:18 |
lastshell | Yeah I know between Ivermectin and Hidroxy who knows what part is true or not | 03:25 |
specing | the people that ran the clinical trials do | 03:26 |
LjL | i wasn't really thinking about those, more about blatant lies like, i always go back to it, the WHO being like "don't use masks, masks are bad" | 03:27 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla predicts normal life will return within a year and adds we may need annual Covid shots → https://is.gd/VcmrCP | 03:45 |
lastshell | https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/singapore-reports-1939-covid-19-cases-highest-since-april-last-year-2021-09-26/ | 04:21 |
lastshell | Why Singapore that is 80% vaccinated is having highest Covid cases ? | 04:22 |
LjL | i think Delta gives very few fucks about the vaccine in terms of infecting people | 04:24 |
LjL | although their deaths are also rising, which is not good | 04:24 |
LjL | but *for now* at least, compare with Italy, which is in a "not too bad steady state" at the moment http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy;Singapore&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes | 04:25 |
LjL | cases skyrocketings, but while deaths are going up, they're not quite skyrocketing | 04:25 |
LjL | of course deaths are delayed compared to cases, so fingers crossed | 04:25 |
lastshell | thanks | 04:25 |
LjL | also, it appears that the dominant variant in Singapore is now AY.23, not Delta | 04:26 |
LjL | which iiiiiiis... the first time i hear of it | 04:26 |
lastshell | oh god more variants | 04:26 |
LjL | i also can't quite figure out what that name corresponds to | 04:28 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Leaked Grant Proposal Details High-Risk Coronavirus Research → https://is.gd/HddhOk | 04:28 |
LjL | i think AY.# variants are variants of the Delta variant itself, but i'm not positive | 04:28 |
LjL | but anyway it has been prevalent in Singapore already since August or so https://outbreak.info/location-reports?loc=SGP | 04:29 |
LjL | so maybe it doesn't explain the current spike. also i'm reading Singapore is transitioning from a "zero covid" strategy to one where they tolerate it | 04:29 |
lastshell | I think maybe thye openned to soon ? | 04:30 |
LjL | when would they open though? | 04:31 |
LjL | they're mostly vaccinated, the alternative at this point seems to be "never" | 04:31 |
lastshell | yeah a.23 is a sublineage of Detla | 04:32 |
lastshell | *Delta | 04:32 |
lastshell | I try to use the outbreak.info for US data but doesn't show variants in the graph | 04:34 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla predicts normal life will return within a year and adds we may need annual Covid shots → https://is.gd/hcnplM | 05:21 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Dominica: +96 cases (now 3293), +2 deaths (now 15) since 2 days ago — Germany: +3830 cases (now 4.2 million) since 18 hours ago | 05:38 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The Covid-19 pandemic has resulted in the largest loss of life expectancy since World War II, worst among American menacademic.oup.com/ije/advance-ar… @jm_aburto @UniofOxford @OxfordDemSci @ridhikash07 @melindacmills pic.twitter.com/ckRIDD9G4m → https://is.gd/fk9jhZ | 05:54 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Covid-19 pandemic cut life expectancy by most since World War Two: Study → https://is.gd/tnwWbG | 06:27 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing): DEVASTATING—life expectancy of 2019 to 2020 plummeted in women (red) & men (light blue). US young men lost the most—ONE FULL YEAR among age 0-59. Sweden🇸🇪 lost more than all its Scandinavian neighbors. And we haven’t added 2021 #DeltaVariant yet! #COVID19 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/rnh8HZ | 07:00 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Sarawak, Malaysia: +2943 cases (now 199089) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +33015 cases (now 7.7 million), +63 deaths (now 136348) since 23 hours ago — France: +856 cases (now 7.0 million) since 7 days ago — Lombardy, Italy: +304 cases (now 882424), +10 deaths (now 34022) since 23 hours ago | 07:30 |
Brainstorm | Updates for India: +26041 cases (now 33.7 million), +116 deaths (now 446929) since 15 hours ago | 08:32 |
-Bridgestorm- ⭕ Σεισμός? Earthquake? M6+ estimated tremor, possibly occurred 14 minutes ago (06:17:21 UTC), during daytime, Municipality of Alagni, Heraklion Regional Unit, Region of Crete, Greece (35.15, 25.2), ↓2 km likely felt 310 km away (in Ηράκλειο, Νέα Αλικαρνασσός, Αρκαλοχώρι, Γάζι, Αρχάνες…) by 240600 people — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1587742123 | 08:33 | |
-Bridgestorm- https://www.windy.com/webcams/1578234050 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1420818867 (www.seismicportal.eu) | 08:33 | |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19 Surpasses 1918 Flu to Become Deadliest Pandemic in American History → https://is.gd/rUX0g5 | 08:35 |
-Bridgestorm- ⭕ Σεισμός! Earthquake! 6.1 Mww tremor, registered by US, occurred 22 minutes ago (06:17:22 UTC), during daytime, Crete, Greece (35.21, 25.23) ± 5 km, ↓5 km likely felt 290 km away (in Ηράκλειο, Νέα Αλικαρνασσός, Γάζι, Αρχάνες, Αρκαλοχώρι…) by 294500 people — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1587742123 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1587484774 | 08:39 | |
-Bridgestorm- https://www.windy.com/webcams/1420818867 (service.iris.edu) | 08:39 | |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: These health care workers would rather get fired than get vaccinated → https://is.gd/6AxXy6 | 08:57 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Childhood obesity is a more serious concern than coronavirus, says Dr Chris van Tulleken → https://is.gd/uYUi7S | 09:07 |
ZdrytchX | .cases melbourne | 09:25 |
Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: Sorry, melbourne not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 09:25 |
ZdrytchX | .cases victoriaq | 09:25 |
Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: Sorry, victoriaq not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 09:25 |
ZdrytchX | .cases victoria | 09:25 |
Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: Victoria, Australia has had 33967 confirmed cases (0.5% of all people) and 845 deaths (2.5% of cases) as of an hour ago. 69000 tests were done (49.2% positive). +673 cases, +1 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Victoria | 09:25 |
Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Victoria, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 09:25 |
ZdrytchX | .cases new south whales | 09:25 |
Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: Sorry, new south whales not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 09:25 |
ZdrytchX | .cases nsw | 09:25 |
Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: New Brunswick, Canada has had 3850 confirmed cases (0.5% of all people) and 54 deaths (1.4% of cases) as of an hour ago. 7963 tests were done (48.3% positive). +82 cases, +1 deaths since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=New%20Brunswick | 09:26 |
Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about New Brunswick, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 09:26 |
ZdrytchX | .cases newsouthwhales | 09:26 |
Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: Sorry, newsouthwhales not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 09:26 |
ZdrytchX | .cases australia | 09:27 |
Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: Australia has had 98535 confirmed cases (0.4% of all people) and 1240 deaths (1.3% of cases) as of 3 hours ago. 37.2 million tests were done (0.3% positive). 15.9 million were vaccinated (62.0%). +1130 cases since 23 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Australia | 09:27 |
Brainstorm | ZdrytchX: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Australia, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 09:27 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +5208 cases (now 4.2 million) since 21 hours ago — Hungary: +42 cases (now 820120), +4 deaths (now 30155), +35392 tests (now 6.9 million) since 2 days ago | 09:35 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Czechia: +256 cases (now 1.7 million), +1 deaths (now 30454), +2373 vaccines (now 6.1 million), +34262 tests (now 37.9 million) since a day ago | 09:59 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Prof Francois Balloux (@BallouxFrancois): What makes the situation even more depressing is that health inequities have worsened during the pandemic, and hardly anyone in a position of authority seems willing to engage with their root causes.2/ → https://is.gd/lOvAoT | 10:00 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): All the while with a government stringency index that for the larger part of the pandemic was less severe for Australia than for the US. Long-term economic impacts to be seen. (ourworldindata.org/explorers/coro…) pic.twitter.com/wJ7nHgn32Y → https://is.gd/i1Hx3B | 10:43 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Opinion: I fear Covid-19 is pushing young physicians out of medicine: I see the same trauma and battle fatigue in young physicians caring for Covid-19 patients as I saw in service members during my deployment in Iraq. → https://is.gd/Bv548N | 10:54 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Fashion: Milan Fashion Week: Missoni turns creative page; Liberatore mixes real, virtual → https://is.gd/nYeyE6 | 11:04 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Russia: +22236 cases (now 7.4 million), +779 deaths (now 204679), +400000 tests (now 190.2 million) since a day ago — Poland: +421 cases (now 2.9 million), +21347 tests (now 20.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 11:39 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Orphan: Orphan designation: Single-chain urokinase plasminogen activator, Treatment of pleural empyema, 16/12/2014, Positive → https://is.gd/gMxkGJ | 11:58 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +4881 cases (now 4.2 million) since 23 hours ago | 12:41 |
darsie | Are people who got covid twice counted twice? | 12:56 |
skep | those lockdown days never gonna back | 13:00 |
Brainstorm | New from Pfizer: Anonymous: Pfizer Starts Global Phase 2/3 EPIC-PEP Study of Novel COVID-19 Oral Antiviral Candidate for Post-Exposure Prophylaxis in Adults → https://is.gd/DzgKDA | 13:03 |
dTal | parse error | 13:03 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: The COVID-19 pandemic triggered life expectancy losses not seen since World War II in Western Europe and exceeded those observed around the dissolution of the Eastern Bloc in central and Eastern European countries, according to research published today → https://is.gd/5bqOHM | 13:14 |
skep | what! | 13:15 |
de-facto | .title https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/covid-19-is-now-the-deadliest-pandemic-in-us-history | 13:16 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nationalgeographic.com: COVID-19 surpasses 1918 flu as deadliest pandemic in U.S. history | 13:16 |
de-facto | .title https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-09-27-covid-19-has-caused-biggest-decrease-life-expectancy-world-war-ii | 13:18 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ox.ac.uk: COVID-19 has caused the biggest decrease in life expectancy since World War II | University of Oxford | 13:18 |
skep | what to say about recent covid attack in June when oxygen shortage happned | 13:26 |
skep | you can learn something in boring days but not in chaotic days | 13:27 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +43 deaths (now 11053) since a day ago | 13:31 |
skep | well my highly populated country doing well in vaccinaction | 13:31 |
skep | no one gives update about europe | 13:33 |
skep | in India | 13:33 |
skep | we think that it is now over there | 13:33 |
skep | lol it is hazardous there ✓ | 13:33 |
Brainstorm | New from The Atlantic: Biden’s Vaccine Mandate Has a Giant Loophole: President Joe Biden’s new vaccine mandate for large businesses is a strange one, in that it does not actually make vaccines mandatory for the roughly 80 million Americans it’s aimed at. Tucked plainly into the rule is a singular and obvious opt-out: Unlike federal employees and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Ku45mE | 13:35 |
de-facto | http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=EU;Europe;US;India;United%20Kingdom;Russia&cumulative=no&smooth=yes | 13:38 |
de-facto | not really over unfortunately | 13:38 |
de-facto | USA even got daily 2000 deaths by COVID | 13:39 |
de-facto | when the winter will come the infections per generation (each 4 days) may increase as much as 40% compared to summer | 13:40 |
de-facto | given all other conditions would be comparable | 13:41 |
de-facto | if more vaccinations are done and more containment is established it may counter balance that | 13:41 |
skep | really I can't forget that day when in what's group we see the video of wuhan | 13:44 |
skep | and also tear of Italian President | 13:45 |
skep | people should be carefull now coz still the virus make you dance on the top of eiffle tower | 13:48 |
de-facto | its going to continue as long as a non-zero covid strategy is tolerated. its over once the pathogen is removed and since that is not going to happen we have to accept that we need to learn to live with it | 13:49 |
skep | thank god I am here I thrown all the mask to the garbage bag | 13:49 |
de-facto | humanity simple is not fit for dealing with a global biosecurity crisis | 13:50 |
de-facto | maybe in next century we will have evolved to have such capabilities | 13:50 |
skep | after getting touch with west people | 13:56 |
dTal | I'm in a weird limbo now where I'm still trying real hard not to get covid and making sacrifices and not living "normally", but I'll also do things that I would have considered unacceptably risky before | 13:56 |
skep | i have seen those things which are common in illitrate Indians | 13:56 |
skep | even illitrate is far better | 13:57 |
skep | dunno why yes is no these days and no is yes | 13:57 |
de-facto | i dont understand why we would not put all efforts into establishing a testing infrastructure for mandatory free biweekly pcr test for everyone | 13:59 |
de-facto | instead they remove free tests and financial support for quarantine | 14:00 |
de-facto | question: why would i pay for a test that could sent me into two weeks of unpaid quarantine that i probably would have to balance with holidays? | 14:01 |
de-facto | next question: if case numbers go down, how would we separate contributions coming from people not going for a test from real decline in incidence? | 14:02 |
de-facto | next next question: if vaccinated are not tested at all, how could it make sense to announce separate incidence for vaccinated and non-vaccinated? | 14:03 |
de-facto | we would not even know real epidemic dynamics anymore, not to start talking about monitoring breakthrough infections et al | 14:04 |
de-facto | i really hope next government will not tolerate such nonsensical strategies anymore | 14:04 |
de-facto | anyhow need to continue work, till later | 14:05 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Gibraltar: +3 cases (now 5517), +470 tests (now 358112) since a day ago | 14:08 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): COVID19: A sprayable Acid-Oxidizing solution containing hypochlorous acid (AOS2020) efficiently and safely inactivates SARS-Cov-2: a new potential solution for upper respiratory tract hygiene - European Archives of Oto-Rhino-Laryngology → https://is.gd/xCYDjC | 14:29 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +975 cases (now 792367), +7 deaths (now 11103) since a day ago — Brunei: +1 deaths (now 38), +4322 tests (now 340308) since a day ago | 14:33 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: UK fully vaccinates more than two-thirds of entire population → https://is.gd/jQg32Q | 15:03 |
aradesh | saw an article that said first time since outbreak began that UK's hospitalisations are consistently declining whilst not in lockdown :) | 15:06 |
aradesh | good news | 15:06 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Denmark: +4 deaths (now 2646), +43946 tests (now 83.4 million) since 12 hours ago | 15:10 |
de-facto | .title https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare | 15:10 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From coronavirus.data.gov.uk: error parsing title ('NoneType' object has no attribute 'string') | 15:10 |
de-facto | "healthcare in UK: Patients admitted to hospital" | 15:11 |
de-facto | since early Sept (1st or 2nd week) COVID hospitalizations seem to decline in UK | 15:12 |
Brainstorm | New from Contagion Live: Complete Blinded Phase of mRNA-1273 COVID-19 Vaccine Trial Unveiled: Extended findings from blinded mRNA-1273 vaccine pivotal trial include efficacy across subgroups, including elderly and with coexisting conditions. → https://is.gd/74sexA | 15:14 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Our covid times :-) pic.twitter.com/hCdfC5s3oe → https://is.gd/JsWuc9 | 15:25 |
Brainstorm | Updates for San Marino: +2 cases (now 5425), +877 tests (now 79097) since 3 days ago | 16:00 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Prof. Shane Crotty (@profshanecrotty): mRNA Vaccine won the Lasker Award! Congrats to @WeissmanLab and @kkariko ! And this is an outstanding short article by Dr. Lynda Stewart summarizing their amazing path to developing this new vaccine technology. nejm.org/doi/full/10.10… → https://is.gd/FTk706 | 16:32 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +2064 cases (now 835448) since 3 hours ago | 16:37 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Prof. Shane Crotty (@profshanecrotty): Brilliant quote about vaccines:“Nobody ever thanks you for saving them from the disease they didn’t know they were going to get.” → https://is.gd/wkjDrs | 16:44 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +1212 cases (now 1.6 million), +25 deaths (now 27439) since 23 hours ago — Chile: +614 cases (now 1.7 million), +5 deaths (now 37445), +58300 tests (now 21.7 million) since a day ago | 17:02 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pfizer begins study of oral drug for prevention of COVID-19 → https://is.gd/MaMdC0 | 17:18 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "To believe that the vaccinated elderly are perfectly safe is to raise uncomfortable questions about the way we have processed risk by universalizing it" pic.twitter.com/dTO4gHHc0U → https://is.gd/sUAHj0 | 17:29 |
hyrcanus | https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2021/09/image-4-3.jpg?w=768&ssl=1 GOLD LMAO | 17:30 |
dTal | oh you're an antivaxer | 17:36 |
dTal | they aren't welcome here | 17:37 |
specing | antivaxers are welcome if they can provide scientific evidence against vaccines. So far they've not delivered | 17:37 |
dTal | I don't know of anywhere that's "forcing" people to get vaccinated anyway | 17:40 |
specing | dTal: my country | 17:42 |
specing | It's not mandatory vaccination, but you can't do much without being vaccinated or tested every 2 days (which is expensive) | 17:43 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Pfizer begins study of oral drug for prevention of Covid-19 → https://is.gd/siVOac | 17:51 |
hyrcanus | 1 | 18:03 |
hyrcanus | 2 | 18:03 |
lastshell | hyrcanus besided qAnon and FB what other places you do research ? | 18:03 |
hyrcanus | 3 | 18:03 |
hyrcanus | 4 | 18:03 |
spybert | not another one of those :-( | 18:03 |
lastshell | sadly they don't want to argue just troll | 18:04 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +36464 cases (now 7.7 million), +2963946 tests (now 300.2 million) since 22 hours ago | 18:04 |
LjL | %title https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1442422389179027456 | 18:13 |
Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: John Roberts (@john_actuary): "An interesting release by ONS today on the characteristics of people testing positive recently. One noteworthy finding is that those who don't wear masks are around 50% [...] | 18:13 |
lastshell | LjL remember we talked about Singapore https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/27/singapore-is-seeing-record-covid-cases-that-may-not-be-a-bad-thing.html | 18:14 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Prof. Shane Crotty (@profshanecrotty): Congrats to @EOSaphire, Dr. Kate Hastie, and their whole LJI team for their impressive accomplishment mapping antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 Spike! bloomberg.com/news/articles/…science.org/doi/10.1126/sc… → https://is.gd/uJ00Op | 18:14 |
LjL | lastshell, "For these people, infection will not have any short-term or long-term consequence to their health" - if the UK report where long COVID is only reduced by 40% or 60% or so by the vaccine, then that's not really true | 18:18 |
LjL | also the deaths are rising, and i'd wait at least the canonical two weeks to see how they behave compared to cases before saying it's not a problem | 18:18 |
lastshell | yeah do we know if Singapore is doing booster ? | 18:19 |
LjL | still, if they are convinced 98% of the positives had no symptoms... but then again how are the deaths already rising that much? | 18:19 |
lastshell | thats the concern | 18:19 |
LjL | i hope the remaining 2% is not all dying :P | 18:19 |
lastshell | lmao almost spit out my coffe | 18:19 |
LjL | if you mean third dose i don't think they're doing it yet, they announced in early september they'll be doing it for older people, so probably no one yet | 18:20 |
LjL | > Hospital beds are filling up because of the country’s “very cautious” approach, and not because that many people need acute medical care, Teo said. | 18:20 |
LjL | okay. this above sounds like bullshit | 18:21 |
lastshell | scary situation | 18:23 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Zambia: +10 cases (now 208867), +1 deaths (now 3647), +4154 tests (now 2.4 million) since a day ago | 18:29 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): We still don't know the mechanism for the rare cases of vaccine-induced myocarditis. John Campbells's point of aspirating the syringe, to be sure the needle is not in a vein, and the data he provides here, shouldn't be dismissed youtube.com/watch?v=nBaIRm… → https://is.gd/YxfACX | 18:36 |
LjL | Topol cites Campbell! | 18:41 |
LjL | the revenge of the boring | 18:41 |
LjL | de-facto, maybe you have that statement on a German gov website where it says "why" aspiration is not done, so we can show Topol/Campbell why entire governments are dismissing it? | 18:42 |
LjL | (even if it's only a former government) | 18:43 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: gianluca c 🏴☠️🇻🇪 #TeamFauci #MaskUp #no papers (@gianlucac1): The more i look at Sarscov2 epidemic, the more i think it behaves like any resp virusIt passes through the percolation threshold in kids which are asymptomatic, or pauci like any other seasonal resp virusThen it goes up in age cohortsYou dont [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/el6ZkU | 18:50 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_ITALIA: I No Green Pass stanno bloccando le Autostrade in Italia → https://is.gd/ZAHuz4 | 19:24 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The difference in pattern of the UK and EUPerhaps, in part, related to first mover disadvantage of being months earlier in vaccination campaign and susceptibility to waning impact pic.twitter.com/NFoD1Ujkvf → https://is.gd/Fr4thu | 19:57 |
MerlinMp[m] | <specing> "antivaxers are welcome if they..." <- Correct me if Im wrong but there are much more research now around vax/non-vax than related to unvax people recovered from covid? | 20:05 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +1773 cases (now 4.7 million), +45 deaths (now 130742) since a day ago | 20:09 |
specing | MerlinMp[m]: what? | 20:18 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Prof Francois Balloux (@BallouxFrancois): Based on their current trajectory, the worldwide number of reported Covid19 deaths over the coming week should be the lowest since the beginning of the year. Daily Covid19 deaths are still awfully high, but the situation is currently improving globally. → https://is.gd/K6Qsos | 20:19 |
MerlinMp[m] | Namely you cannot provide "scientific evidence" if theres no research about some topics | 20:23 |
specing | There is research. The vaccine clinical trials themselves are evidence that vaccines work. There have also been trials for chloroquine, ivermectin and vitamin D | 20:25 |
Brainstorm | New from WebMD: Global COVID Vaccination Plans Need Urgency, Activists Say: While Americans debate who should receive boosters of a COVID-19 vaccine and when, many nations have barely begun to vaccinate their citizens, an inequity that is not just a humanitarian crisis, but also likely to extend the pandemic → https://is.gd/sZnyw4 | 20:30 |
* Pawel[m]1 uploaded an image: (116KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/oEOGfjYuamIdzuqoLvyaEgtH/IMG_20210927_203843.jpg > | 20:41 | |
MerlinMp[m] | <specing> "There is research. The vaccine..." <- Most vax clinical trials exclude recovered, and if included only antibodies are measured which is a poorly evidence | 20:50 |
TurboTech | Good afternoon gang | 20:56 |
TurboTech | Hope all are doing well. | 20:56 |
nixonix | .title https://elifesciences.org/articles/69336 too bad they too did half-assed job, like almost everybody, not adjusting for missing seasonal infections and heatwaves | 21:09 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From elifesciences.org: Tracking excess mortality across countries during the COVID-19 pandemic with the World Mortality Dataset | eLife | 21:09 |
nixonix | they did adjust for trend over the last few years, like due to immgracy changing age-structure. so they got 1/3 of the most important adjustments. not totally terrible, but weak | 21:10 |
nixonix | it could roughly be used to compare countries with high mortality | 21:11 |
LjL | Pawel[m]1, the same goes for you as for hyrcanus earlier, this room is not about posting memes or such things. if you have a coherent argument to make, make it | 21:13 |
lastshell | https://www.dawn.com/news/1648780 | 21:15 |
nixonix | see the comments in the section "Decision letter" | 21:17 |
LjL | ublx, did you see, Campbell has been VINDICATED | 21:18 |
LjL | (and de-facto too) | 21:19 |
LjL | %title https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1442525607426867200 | 21:19 |
Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): "We still don't know the mechanism for the rare cases of vaccine-induced myocarditis. John Campbells's point of aspirating the syringe, to be sure the needle is not in a vein, [...] | 21:19 |
lastshell | I been watching JC since the begining of the pandemic | 21:20 |
lastshell | his theory could be right | 21:21 |
nixonix | is it in text form somewhere? | 21:21 |
nixonix | what is his theory anyway? | 21:22 |
Pawel[m]1 | <LjL> "Pawel, the same goes for you..." <- Oh ok. Well. It's a good argument of you remove the background and make it non-meme. But sure I understand. | 21:22 |
Pawel[m]1 | Ok so let me provide a good coherent resource for everybody. A goldmine of scientific studies in the subject... | 21:22 |
Pawel[m]1 | This is a must read and must share, far and wide: | 21:22 |
Pawel[m]1 | https://swprs.org/facts-about-covid-19/ | 21:22 |
ublx | nixonix: apparently that injecting vaccine into bloodstream might be responsible for myocarditis | 21:22 |
LjL | there goes my plan of rebooting into windows to do stuff | 21:23 |
nixonix | yeayeah, thats nothing new. i mean mechanism he suggests? | 21:23 |
LjL | nixonix, what ublx said, but to be fair i didn't watch the video at all, it's just what i expect because we've discussed it a bunch of times before (also wrt AZ thrombosis) | 21:23 |
nixonix | we have had here at least 3 ideas for mechanisms. the last one was that immunocomplex with ace2 | 21:23 |
LjL | i know it's nothing new, i just find it somewhat noteworthy that Topol quotes a Campbell video | 21:24 |
lastshell | oh LjL I think you were cool, but using windows .. mmm | 21:24 |
LjL | lastshell, i have a new USB stick that gives somewhat poor speed readings under Linux and i want to see if i replicate them with Windows tools | 21:25 |
lastshell | usb3 and achi drivers something are wonky | 21:25 |
lastshell | ok | 21:25 |
nixonix | dd keeps trashing my usb sticks. i guess its overheating. my slowing attempts didnt work, it just writes it from the buffer at once i guess | 21:28 |
nixonix | using old usb2 works, i think i should use just them, but they are so slow | 21:28 |
LjL | nixonix, these Sandisk do seem to overheat a lot. and i'm so smart i bought another after realizing the first one was like that | 21:28 |
LjL | (i needed a USB-C one to begin with, because the main reason for buying it was to backup my failing phone, but i was dumb and bought a USB-A one instead and then realized my adaptor doesn't do the trick, so i kept the USB-A one for another use, and then bought a C+A one... which seems flimsy, aside from being slow and overheating... whatever) | 21:29 |
nixonix | what was usb-a again | 21:30 |
nixonix | the normal.. | 21:31 |
nixonix | oh yeah, usb-b was that in printers etc | 21:32 |
nixonix | mini-usb was ok, never broke one i think | 21:32 |
TurboTech | Hi guys | 21:37 |
lastshell | Hi TurboTech | 21:39 |
TurboTech | Ready for you day in Clinical Lab? | 21:39 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Vanderbilt University Medical Center Covid-19 Hospitalizations 7 days ending 9/18/21 - lists vaccinated, partially vaccinated and fully vaccinated → https://is.gd/x1HVcZ | 21:40 |
nixonix | we are ready | 21:41 |
TurboTech | A few years ago I read a study regarding a single red blood cell indice as being an interesting predictor of all cause mortality. | 21:42 |
TurboTech | It is known as red cell distribution with. Basically the variance of how different our redblood cells sizes are. | 21:43 |
TurboTech | In healthy people there is very little variance in Red sell size. | 21:43 |
TurboTech | so most of the cells are roughly the same size | 21:43 |
TurboTech | .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29038615/ | 21:44 |
Brainstorm | TurboTech: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Red Blood Cell Distribution Width: A Novel Predictive Indicator for Cardiovascular and Cerebrovascular Diseases - PubMed | 21:44 |
TurboTech | This weekend I was thinking if it might tell us anything regarding Covid Infection. | 21:45 |
TurboTech | I was almost floored when I read this. | 21:45 |
TurboTech | .title https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26797 | 21:45 |
Brainstorm | TurboTech: From onlinelibrary.wiley.com: Association between red blood cell distribution width and mortality and severity among patients with COVID‐19: A systematic review and meta‐analysis - Lee - 2021 - Journal of Medical Virology - Wiley [...] | 21:46 |
Pawel[m]1 | I have some genuine questions: What are the (unwritten) goals of this group? | 21:47 |
Pawel[m]1 | Is it predominantly pro vax , anti or a mixed bag? | 21:47 |
Pawel[m]1 | Are you questioning the lies/manipulation/propaganda, conflicts of interests here or maybe you don't take a notice of any of that? | 21:47 |
nixonix | sorry the interruption turbo, im interested and lets continue about that biomarker, but | 21:48 |
TurboTech | I am not for or against Vaccines. I am a clinical laboratorian who analyzes blood and body fluids. | 21:48 |
nixonix | what lies Pawel[m]1 do you mean? | 21:48 |
LjL-Matrix | nixonix: in theory miniUSB is rated for fewer cycles than microUSB which in turn is fewer than USB-C. But I don't think I ever broke one either. With microUSB it's easier to "break" the cable (especially the two small springs) and that's by design since with miniUSB the springs are in the port and it's easier to replace the cable than the port. Anyway yeah, USB-C is meant to replace both A and B, and to remove the distinction, at least | 21:49 |
LjL-Matrix | cable-wise, between host and peripheral | 21:49 |
Pawel[m]1 | Fauci's lies as an example. Flip flopping and covering potential leak from WIV.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/10c0fb3ef9046761536a19560c66ccbbb0a19ca9) | 21:55 |
Pawel[m]1 | <nixonix> "what lies Pawel do you mean?" <- Fauci's lies as an example. Flip flopping and covering potential leak from WIV.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/e2179c49ea7914a6974d944672de7be7e0f6f86d) | 21:55 |
Pawel[m]1 | * . | 21:55 |
nixonix | while im not always here, i dont remember anyone saying here that fauci didnt lie or something (or not being 100% open about financing ecohealth and or g-o-f research plans with chinese) | 21:57 |
nixonix | but let me say, if fauci lied on something or wasnt 100% open, its bad | 21:58 |
nixonix | okay, next lie? | 21:58 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +5039 cases (now 5.0 million), +69 deaths (now 86298) since 3 days ago — Canada: +709 cases (now 1.6 million) since 19 hours ago | 22:01 |
Pawel[m]1 | I was more asking whether ppl here are interested in shining some light on that kind of stuff here/are interested in discussing those lies/manipulation, not just defending any lies if they are brought up (meaning ignoring the elephant in the room for as long as possible) 😝 | 22:01 |
nixonix | ive posted links about those recent leaks on ecohealth etc. not much discussion, but i guess some people read them. lemme repaste some... | 22:02 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/__philipn__/status/1435096150210580481 | 22:04 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Philip Neustrom (@__philipn__): "Wuhan University Center for Animal Experiment, BSL3 mentioned where hACE2 mice experiments said performed. Surgical masks (not covering nose, even), potentially [...] | 22:04 |
nixonix | are there any other types of lies on your list? exp ecohealth, daszak, WIW etc related? | 22:05 |
Pawel[m]1 | LjL @LjL:libera.chat can I post a video? not sure whether you can call it a lie... I would guess so. recently there was a great Project Veritas movie exposing doctors talking between themselves, who are federal employees (at HHS), admitting that no reports are submitted when a patient has suffered an injury. One of the doctors at HHS was coerced into taking the vaccine and died soon after btw. No reports submitted anywhere, if i understood | 22:08 |
Pawel[m]1 | correctly. | 22:08 |
Pawel[m]1 | Saying we know vaccines are safe when the vaccine injury reporting system does not work properly, and we mainly rely on those as the covid vaccine safety studies are more of a joke (from the little that i know) is a kind of a false statement. | 22:10 |
Pawel[m]1 | * a joke , to put it bluntly (from the | 22:10 |
nixonix | please, text links from source with some reliability. i dont bother to watch videos, not sure if reading if it just somebody claiming something, without any evidence. maybe, if its somebody with ok reputation | 22:11 |
nixonix | maybe ljl watches and tells me what was in it, then im happy to comment whatever it was (: | 22:12 |
Pawel[m]1 | Saying we "have a free choice" | 22:12 |
Pawel[m]1 | to take the vaccine" while basic human rights area being taken away if you don't take it and you are constantly being coerced into taking it without an informed consent / any warnings about potential side effects / properly working vaccine injury reporting system . Is a lie to me. | 22:12 |
imaginary | these are gonna keep getting more fringe aren't they | 22:13 |
nixonix | so the claim is, somebody claims vaccine safety studies are a joke. but no evidence other than the claim? come on... | 22:13 |
nixonix | but yeah i agree usa's reporting systems are not perfect, and they prob dont catch all the medium severity adverse effects. and i think the same with uk, when you compare non-severe TTS cases induced by AZ to australia, who for some reason finds more them | 22:18 |
nixonix | but some countries are very meticulous to find them, eg australia, norway, denmark, prob germany... so i think they are pretty much known now, with these approved vaccines | 22:19 |
Pawel[m]1 | <nixonix> "so the claim is, somebody claims..." <- Relax. Will send good resources I can find, but I will probably be sending it as I go along rather than all of it right now.. i got a chronic fatigue and a bit disorganised and haven't been saving all of the best resources in any organised manner, plus been traveling last few months without my laptop (I planning to organise myself better). But if you are not a vax fanatic, can talk logic | 22:21 |
Pawel[m]1 | and reason, and we can have a non-retarded discussion here, then I will be happy to provide some interesting stuff to you guys here :) | 22:21 |
nixonix | im always interested in reliable evidence. doesnt need to be peer reviewed yet, preprints are ok too | 22:22 |
Pawel[m]1 | Not perfect? From what I know it's closer to tragic.. :p | 22:23 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Paul Bieniasz (@PaulBieniasz): @celinegounder I'm a PRO-VACCINE virologist who's has been studying SARS-CoV-2 variants, antibodies and antibody escape since the beginningI got my 1st and 2nd doses of Pfizer 3/2021I will be getting a boosterBecause past effects on hospitalization and death aren't the only considerations → https://is.gd/nOXVZv | 22:23 |
Pawel[m]1 | And when it comes to safety of something being injected into billions of people you need to assume it's unsafe (I'm talking about the vaccine reporting system here being unsafe, not the vaccines itself) until proven otherwise, not the other way around. | 22:25 |
Pawel[m]1 | You could not apply that logic to flying planes. Why would you apply it to human lives/health. | 22:25 |
nixonix | no medicine of vaccine is 100% safe. if the requirement is that, no medicine or vaccine will ever be approved | 22:26 |
Pawel[m]1 | Well.. Something along those lines. If there is any doubt about robustness of the system, and reports being missed, then it's not a safe system, imo. | 22:26 |
Pawel[m]1 | I was talking about the reporting system not the vaccine. | 22:27 |
Pawel[m]1 | nixonix: But yes I agree. | 22:27 |
de-facto | ultimately its the attitude towards working together with the intention to do the best possible to solve this problem | 22:27 |
nixonix | these vaccines had similar size trials than previous vaccines, only thing that was different, was reduced safety period time from the last dose, from 6 months to 2 months (more in practice), so there was a bit higher risk, but lots of people were dying, so it was the right call | 22:28 |
Pawel[m]1 | Here is an interesting lie... | 22:28 |
Pawel[m]1 | The New York Times Corrects Claim About Ivermectin | 22:28 |
Pawel[m]1 | https://resistthemainstream.org/nyt-finally-corrects-claim-about-ivermectin/?utm_source=telegram | 22:28 |
de-facto | that means looking honestly and openly at all aspects of it, find solutions to each problems in favor of the majorities and make the solutions available to people | 22:28 |
de-facto | lies are interesting, but imho dont really interest me as i cant see how they lead to solving the problems associated | 22:29 |
de-facto | instead i would be interested in solutions when problems have been found | 22:30 |
nixonix | but after that, theres been safety data from actual use in hundreds of millions people, and the worst adverse effects have been those TTS/CVST with az. yeah, u.s. reporting system, like in many other countries, isnt what it could be. the same with federal medical records in usa, like for tracking breakthrough cases, reinfections and stuff | 22:31 |
nixonix | .title https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/how-dr-arwady-responds-to-those-worried-about-vaccines-long-term-side-effects/2520299/ | 22:31 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From www.nbcchicago.com: How Dr. Arwady Responds to Those Worried About Long-Term Side Effects With Vaccines – NBC Chicago | 22:31 |
de-facto | what i mean is it may be interesting from a political standpoint to discuss about public relations etc, but the real difference will emerge from solving the underlying associated problem in an open and transparent way | 22:32 |
nixonix | .title https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/1412635807702142982 about ivermectin, this is good read | 22:32 |
Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: Health Nerd (@GidMK): "Another day, another systematic review and meta-analysis of the same ivermectin research published This one is positive. I don't think it should be 1/n" | nitter | 22:32 |
Pawel[m]1 | <de-facto> "lies are interesting, but imho..." <- Bro.. you cant be serious :p... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/1154869bf9a19a368e44f9038e9915154e62df94) | 22:35 |
Pawel[m]1 | * Bro.. you cant be serious :p... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/78e6247df281d03b30ee8f63ff246d4f64b6b2e6) | 22:35 |
Pawel[m]1 | How can you solve hunger if you have a bug in the fields eating your crops lol.. sorry, im trying to explain it best way possible. | 22:36 |
de-facto | yes of course we need proper data that is derived in a transparent and empirical way for basing our statements unto, e.g. properly made double blinded studies or observational studies with public full disclosed data etc | 22:37 |
de-facto | per default i dont trust any reputation of anybody, i dont care about names, i care about what they say and if it is disclosed in a complete way that transparently allows for independent verification etc | 22:38 |
Pawel[m]1 | * Bro.. you cant be serious :p... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/2261d03252267c825f11dde3b8a1c9e7b190b071) | 22:38 |
Pawel[m]1 | Great we agree on that one. | 22:39 |
de-facto | if i hear a claim, i want to see the data and how it was collected etc | 22:40 |
de-facto | then i want to see if similar results can be concluded from similar collections of data that was collected independently from someone else | 22:41 |
de-facto | for example if a side effect reporting system for vaccines of one country reports some deviation from expectation background values i want to see if similar signals could be seen in independently collected data from other countries | 22:42 |
de-facto | if so, if its possible to restrict effects on certain subgroups of population etc | 22:42 |
de-facto | i dont care at all if a statement comes from someone named Fauci or Lauterbach or whomever, i care about what the claim says and on based on what kind of data it was based onto | 22:43 |
de-facto | because than a discussion can be aimed at finding a problem and associated solution if its based on the data rather than the messenger of the claim | 22:44 |
dTal | let me offer a counterpoint and say that I do very much care who a claim comes from because I have limited time and energy and some people are known bad actors | 22:45 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: Dozens Of Massachusetts State Police Have Resigned Over A Vaccine Mandate, Union Says: Under the governor's executive order, all executive department employees are required to show proof of vaccination by Oct. 17. Up to 20% of employees are not vaccinated. → https://is.gd/BkVdh7 | 22:45 |
Pawel[m]1 | Do people here know how conflict of interest ls work ? Are there scientific papers proving that conflicts of interests screw things up, usually 😅 or is that self evident? | 22:45 |
Pawel[m]1 | Dig this, it's a letter I got from ICAN foundation, and had to paste it into a note to make it shareable. | 22:45 |
Pawel[m]1 | Just one piece of much bigger puzzle (something to keep in mind basically). To me personally a major red flag but sure.. some ppl may be sure of ever-good intentions of people working for the governments who often are in bed with big corporations (sorry to be sarcastic, but not sure how else to put it). But when it comes to lives of everyone on the planet, we ought to be skeptical and question everyone and their motives and actions, imo. | 22:45 |
Pawel[m]1 | https://www.evernote.com/shard/s436/sh/05ac86a2-8236-4871-b1a0-21a7b6f412b7/cb49622d0e597535d3a064947f7de58f | 22:45 |
de-facto | if the claim is substantial it should not matter who tells it, it should matter if its a real thing and if it can be restricted to a certain subgroup and possibly even solved by understanding it better by further investigation etc | 22:45 |
dTal | de-facto, this is getting to be an offtopic sidetrack but claims - even facts - do not stand alone because it is possible to "lie with the truth". I can render your conception of the world less accurate by selectively directing your attention in certain directions. | 22:48 |
Pawel[m]1 | dTal: As long as you don't make this an excuse not to confront with potentially good scientific arguement. | 22:48 |
Pawel[m]1 | I have seen this happening way to often. | 22:48 |
dTal | So I think it's a better policy to ignore anyone with a history of making politically motivated claims, or otherwise clearly acting in bad faith, regardless of the superficial merit of any individual thing they say. | 22:49 |
dTal | That's why we ban trolls on IRC. | 22:49 |
de-facto | dTal, well yeah hence the importance for an open and transparent empirical approach to make claims independently verifiable | 22:49 |
Pawel[m]1 | dTal: I hear where up coming from. Sure. The only observation i have its that character assassination happens way to often nowadays.. in all areas of life/politics/science. | 22:50 |
Pawel[m]1 | * I hear where you coming from. Sure. The only observation i have its that character assassination happens way to often nowadays.. in all areas of life/politics/science. | 22:50 |
Pawel[m]1 | * I hear where you coming from. Sure. The only observation i have is that character assassination happens way to often nowadays.. in all areas of life/politics/science. | 22:50 |
Pawel[m]1 | So I guess you can't be too easily dismissive. | 22:50 |
de-facto | editing a message replicates the whole thing on irc side | 22:50 |
nixonix | ICAN foundation? which one? International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons? | 22:51 |
Pawel[m]1 | The cancel culture is wild today. | 22:51 |
Pawel[m]1 | de-facto: Oh ok thanks for letting me know lol.. sorry. | 22:51 |
merit | I thought I was in here from matrix | 22:51 |
merit | dang nick pings | 22:51 |
Pawel[m]1 | nixonix: Informed Consent Action Network.. | 22:52 |
Pawel[m]1 | https://www.icandecide.org/ | 22:52 |
Pawel[m]1 | I recommend reading their documents. They do a lot of interesting legal work.. but they of course are highly demonised :) | 22:52 |
nixonix | wiki says "Informed Consent Action Network, a US antivaccine group" | 22:53 |
Pawel[m]1 | nixonix: Exactly. Wikipedia is a leftist propaganda tool.. | 22:53 |
nixonix | anyways, lots of claims, but where are the evidence behind them? | 22:54 |
Pawel[m]1 | Since you like evidence: | 22:54 |
Pawel[m]1 | https://swprs.org/wikipedia-disinformation-operation/ | 22:54 |
nixonix | about vaccine claims | 22:54 |
ublx | isn't swprs a rightist propaganda tool? | 22:54 |
ublx | "... will probably be sending it as I go along rather ..." | 22:55 |
de-facto | imho a lot of the problems we currently have emerge from trying to politicize originally scientific approaches, a trend that if it can be reversed would solve quite some of the problems we have | 22:55 |
ublx | ^ this doesn't really work for me. how about you do some work and develop a well researched and substantiated thesis instead of waterboarding us with this drip feed | 22:55 |
nixonix | you wrote above about conflicts of intereste in research papers. dependencies are listed in them. how about antivaxer videos, do they do the same? | 22:55 |
nixonix | interestS | 22:56 |
Pawel[m]1 | <ublx> "isn't swprs a rightist propagand..." <- No. It's fairly objective to me. | 23:01 |
Pawel[m]1 | <ublx> ""... will probably be sending it..." <- What's your problem with that? | 23:01 |
nixonix | is ICAN or is it not US anti-vaccine group? | 23:01 |
Pawel[m]1 | I explained why. I will be happy to provide all interesting resources once I locate them.. | 23:01 |
imaginary | because just saying "X claim is true, i'll provide sources later" doesn't really lead to any discussion | 23:02 |
Pawel[m]1 | nixonix: Anti vaccine is a label to shame them.. | 23:02 |
Pawel[m]1 | They are pro choice and pro proper safety studies. | 23:02 |
imaginary | especially if X is a p fringe claim | 23:02 |
nixonix | pawel, link me one of those studies | 23:03 |
Pawel[m]1 | imaginary: Man... I came here to ask you a question, whether you look into any of the lies. My intention wasn't to spend my todays evening with you and englighten you. I will do so when I see fit. | 23:03 |
Pawel[m]1 | When I find the fucking resources. So please :) | 23:03 |
nixonix | safety, or something about vaccines, some study that you think is reliable, and supports your claims | 23:03 |
Pawel[m]1 | Sure I will link you all once I find out.. are you all gonna fucking run away if I don't send it immediately ? | 23:04 |
Pawel[m]1 | * Once i find it* | 23:04 |
nixonix | you remember the title? | 23:04 |
de-facto | thats what i mean, lets discuss based on data, otherwise it did not happen | 23:05 |
nixonix | yeah, otherwise its just emphatic words | 23:05 |
imaginary | Pawel[m]1: well, the answer to your question was basically, sure, we can discuss anything that's backed up by evidence | 23:06 |
imaginary | you kept bringing up stuff which is why everyone is now asking for sources | 23:06 |
imaginary | unsure where you want it all to go from here | 23:07 |
nixonix | way too many words already, and not single links on studies. maybe i have adhd, idk | 23:07 |
imaginary | nixonix: nah, same feeling here | 23:07 |
Brainstorm | New from CIDRAP: US COVID-19 cases drop for first time in 3 months: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Sep 27, 2021 In the past week, new daily COVID-19 cases fell 20%, deaths dropped 0.8%, and hospitalizations fell 8.9%. → https://is.gd/zWyN7x | 23:07 |
lastshell | Sure and the earth is flat | 23:09 |
Pawel[m]1 | lastshell: Get lost with stupid aoundbites. | 23:10 |
lastshell | I think you are one that is lost, try to back up with scientific papers please | 23:10 |
Pawel[m]1 | 1) You asked me a question so I provided a quick list. My intention wasn't to sit here and dig out the resources for you.. these are my opinions and you can have different but please cut the shit with jumping on me that I'm saying baseless stuff. I said I WILL BE PROVIDING RESOURCES FROM TODAY ON, since you guys are interested in hearing about it. | 23:10 |
Pawel[m]1 | Is that clear? | 23:10 |
Pawel[m]1 | 2) i never said today that vaccines are unsafe (i believe they are not safe, but I NEVER SAID IT). | 23:10 |
Pawel[m]1 | I was saying that if we are to recommend something everyone in the planet we need robust studies and robust safety monitoring systems in place. | 23:10 |
LjL | Oi | 23:11 |
lastshell | vaccines are safe according to medical trials | 23:11 |
lastshell | not safe according to your hunch ? | 23:11 |
LjL | Pawel[m]1: at minimum, tone down the... uh, the tone | 23:11 |
Pawel[m]1 | LjL: So tell them to stop jumping on me. | 23:12 |
Pawel[m]1 | Especially with soundbites. | 23:12 |
LjL | Everyone: don't jump on Pawel[m]1 | 23:12 |
Pawel[m]1 | Thank you 😃 | 23:12 |
LjL | Pawel[m]1: stop saying "fucking" every three words and attacking people | 23:12 |
Pawel[m]1 | I need to switch to my laptop.. | 23:13 |
Pawel[m]1 | <lastshell> "vaccines are safe according to..." <- Let me follow up on that with you. | 23:17 |
Pawel[m]1 | Show me a study of long term effects, 2 years down the line or 5 years down the line of taking a number of covid vaccines, e.g. one per year or two per year (as it seems they are trying to make it now). | 23:17 |
Pawel[m]1 | Or even a few year long term study of 2 shots? | 23:17 |
lastshell | vaccines are less than 2 years so | 23:18 |
Pawel[m]1 | lastshell: So how can one claim that they are safe if we don't know long term effects? | 23:18 |
LjL | How can you claim that a vaccine is safe after 10 years of using it? Maybe there are some terrible adverse effects that happen only after 20 years | 23:19 |
lastshell | lmao | 23:19 |
LjL | Science doesn't predict the future, but that hasn't stopped us from using vaccines before | 23:20 |
lastshell | The Infectious Disease Society of America (IDSA) estimates that the spike proteins that were generated by COVID-19 vaccines last up to a few weeks, like other proteins made by the body. | 23:20 |
nixonix | pawel, not any previous vaccines have been required more than 6 months of safety data (or 12 months with adjuvanted types), not 2 years or 5 years. yeah this time it was 2 months (got maybe around 3 before appr) and the trials have also been similar size, 20-30k something | 23:20 |
nixonix | did you read that nbc article i linked above? the part about 6 weeks max when the side effects have always appeared? not after year or two or something | 23:21 |
Pawel[m]1 | nixonix: and that is also the problem of every previous vaccine, imo.. but let's not broaden our discussion into traditional vaccines right now | 23:21 |
nixonix | so no vaccines should be approved, before waiting for 2-5 years? despite pandemic and millions dying while waiting? | 23:22 |
nixonix | (safety data recuirements above were for usa. other countries might have slightly different, but prob around the same usually) | 23:24 |
Pawel[m]1 | I can't see the link to the article you mentioned :( could you re-send it to me? | 23:24 |
nixonix | https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/how-dr-arwady-responds-to-those-worried-about-vaccines-long-term-side-effects/2520299/ | 23:24 |
nixonix | that says withing 6 weeks. i think within 8 weeks is closer, but i dont have a link to confirm how it was with pandemrix exactly, within 2 months or so i think | 23:25 |
nixonix | meaning serious side effects, that werent super rare like 1 per million or so, or not that severe, like these myo/pericarditeses (95% mild, the rest treatable, and not confirmed deaths yet) | 23:28 |
Arsanerit | funny how some of the same people complain that the vaccine doesn't last long enough and that it might have long term side effects | 23:29 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: it's not funny and it's not out of equation.. you can take.. a recreational drug one night, have fun for ONLY one night, and be damaged for the rest of your life.. it happens to some people. | 23:30 |
Pawel[m]1 | Not sure what makes you think that is not possible. | 23:30 |
Pawel[m]1 | Can't wait for a soundbite, with someone picking on my analogy. It's not perfect, but again.. what makes you so sure that this is not possible. | 23:32 |
Pawel[m]1 | Toxic effects of whatever is injected can be long lasting, the immunity can be waning.. which it is waning. | 23:32 |
nixonix | no country in the world to my knowledge - possibly excluding north korea and turkmenistan - where hc officials decided to wait for years of safety data before approving some of these vaccines (those available for them) | 23:32 |
Arsanerit | there is no certainty | 23:32 |
nixonix | so every countries hc officials were wrong, or in the same conspiracy? | 23:32 |
Arsanerit | There is no certainty, but there is a tradeoff between the risks of vaccinating and the risks of not vaccinating. | 23:33 |
de-facto | i would even argue that because that 6 bln dose of these vaccines were given already that we even should be able to know the rarest side effects and that we have seen from other vaccines that any side effects usually show up in the first few months already when the immune system reacts to the presence of the antigen | 23:33 |
Arsanerit | By now we know a bit about the long term effects of not vaccinating (long covid), but afaik there is no evidence of any long term side effects of vaccinating. | 23:33 |
Pawel[m]1 | We live in a day of age where you get character assasinated, censored, demonised, suspended, most mainstream media throwing shit on you, if you question the main narrative. That includes doctors, scientists, politicians, nurses, patients. | 23:34 |
Arsanerit | 6 billion really? | 23:34 |
Arsanerit | Pawel[m]1: tbh most people just get ignored if they say silly things | 23:34 |
nixonix | every drug is dangerous. some of they very rarely, but they still are. but its usually better to use them, when the alternative is worse | 23:34 |
LjL | Indeed, we also don't know about the long-term side effects of COVID, but we already know that so far it has more and more serious ones than the vaccines. Why would we bet on that situation reversing? I mean, it could, but again we have no crystal ball, we should go with what we have evidence for having a benefit | 23:34 |
de-facto | https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations says 77.89 doses per 100 people, hence for 7.9bln ppl it would mean 6.15bln doses | 23:35 |
lastshell | Pawel[m]1 is true that the media manipulates people, agree 100% and they have there own narrative | 23:35 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: I don't agree. Most get punished for speaking up and 100x more are self-censouring, because they don't want to get that punishment, lose their jobs/.licences etc.. | 23:35 |
Arsanerit | de-facto: I think that statistic only covers a subset of countries? | 23:35 |
nixonix | caffeine has a long list of bad adverse effects. they are just very rare (with normal coffee consumption) | 23:35 |
LjL | So, COVID long term effects: certainly many, vaccine long term effects: quite possibly none, with a small possibility of that proving false, although it hasn't happened with other vaccines before. Why would I pick COVID? | 23:36 |
de-facto | Arsanerit, the map looks pretty complete to me | 23:36 |
Arsanerit | Hmm, it does say 6.1 billion doses have been administrated, I'm surprised. | 23:36 |
Arsanerit | I thought it was much less. | 23:36 |
de-facto | data at https://github.com/owid/covid-19-data/tree/master/public/data/vaccinations/country_data | 23:36 |
Arsanerit | In particular considering "Only 2.2% of people in low-income countries have received at least one dose", which doesn't add up to me, considering the majority of the world live in low income countries. | 23:36 |
lastshell | media doesn't talk about improve health and fitness activity | 23:36 |
lastshell | and likes to be more alarmistist | 23:37 |
Pawel[m]1 | Guys listen to this... one TV show in Poland - invited some doctors and people working in the gov in the past, in the health sector ( if I am not mistaken - I cant remember the details).. | 23:37 |
Pawel[m]1 | THey were discussing the lockdowns, masks, covid etc.. before there even were vaccines ( if I remember correctly )... DO you know what happened? | 23:37 |
Pawel[m]1 | The show got CANCELLED .... so please don't tell me people just get ignored if they say something opposing the mainstream narrative. THEY LOSE THEIR CAREERS. | 23:37 |
de-facto | yeah keep in mind many received two doses and countries starting giving third ones already | 23:37 |
Pawel[m]1 | It got cancelled after streaming this episode. | 23:37 |
Arsanerit | Pawel[m]1: how does cancelling a TV show end the career of a doctor? | 23:38 |
Pawel[m]1 | nixonix: please... let's not compare apples to oranges.. | 23:38 |
Arsanerit | Polish TV is not known to be democratic, so it's not a good example of anything. | 23:39 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Trust in scientists has changed during the pandemic, which varies considerably in the 12 countries studied, and has affected compliance with mitigation measures and vaccination uptakepnas.org/content/118/40…@PNASNews pic.twitter.com/8zdi95obFk → https://is.gd/KP9biG | 23:39 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: you are not serious man are you? | 23:39 |
nixonix | we have an antivaxer group here, that sent a letter telling vaccinations should stop or something. all md's or veterinarians, around 20 | 23:39 |
Pawel[m]1 | what about the TV show presenter? is he a robot or what? | 23:39 |
Pawel[m]1 | that's 1) | 23:39 |
nixonix | all or almost all retired, or lost their lisence. before this epidemic | 23:39 |
Pawel[m]1 | and 2) people who are persistent enough with getting their voices heard - doctors I mean - they get canceled. | 23:39 |
Arsanerit | I don't know if cancelling a TV show ends the career of the presenter necessarily. | 23:40 |
Arsanerit | I can't speak for Polish TV, which afaik is pretty much state controlled. | 23:40 |
Arsanerit | But if people say dangerously silly things then maybe giving them a platform is not a great idea. | 23:40 |
Arsanerit | that long predates the pandemic | 23:41 |
Arsanerit | there are "alternative health" woo practicioners who say one shouldn't take medicine | 23:41 |
Arsanerit | Would you invite them to spread their deadly propaganda on prime time TV? I wouldn't. | 23:41 |
Pawel[m]1 | In poland there are few doctors being put in front of commission, threatened that their licence will be taken away... getting suspended, going to courts etc... those are independent.. | 23:42 |
Pawel[m]1 | In the end I don't think they lose the licence, I heard some of them won. But it's still a major hustle no one wants to go through... and still they are getting thrown lot of shit at. | 23:42 |
Pawel[m]1 | And those are probably independent docotrs.. | 23:42 |
Pawel[m]1 | Those who work for a hospital? public hospital?? ha... job lost immediatelly... :) | 23:42 |
Pawel[m]1 | probably with a difficulty to go to any other hospital | 23:42 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: are you excausing it or what? | 23:42 |
nixonix | many in that group of antivaxer doctors also sell their alternative medicines or their advice on them | 23:42 |
Arsanerit | Pawel[m]1: Excusing what? | 23:42 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: I would take holistic over conventional medicine most of the time. from my own life experience | 23:43 |
Arsanerit | Pawel[m]1: Well, I think a doctor who shares that view should indeed not have a job. | 23:43 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: saying the problem was there before, doesn't mean it's ok for it to be now | 23:43 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: I think you should leave that up to a doctor, since you are not a doctor maybe | 23:43 |
Arsanerit | The problem of anti-scientific "doctors" was there before and is there today. | 23:43 |
Arsanerit | Maybe I'm not a doctor. | 23:43 |
Arsanerit | But I am a scientist, and in case of medicine the anti-scientific view can kill. | 23:44 |
Pawel[m]1 | My personal experiences with traditional doctors - waste of time, moslty bad experiences. | 23:44 |
Pawel[m]1 | Holistic doctors - nothing but amazing experiences. | 23:44 |
nixonix | has a country done this yet: sars2 vaccine is part of our medical system. you can opt out if you want, but then you are out | 23:44 |
Pawel[m]1 | So please.. don't talk of stuff you have no experience with | 23:44 |
Pawel[m]1 | and things you just heard on fakestream TV | 23:44 |
Arsanerit | Pawel[m]1: I have experience with science. | 23:44 |
lastshell | Pawel[m]1 food is medicine, sadly most folks don't eat healthy | 23:44 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: have you got experience with corruption in science? | 23:45 |
Pawel[m]1 | ok tell me | 23:45 |
nixonix | did you find those studies yet? | 23:46 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: you are a scientist and you know so much about this and that.. all alternative is bad all traditional is good | 23:47 |
Pawel[m]1 | tell me: why peptides such as bpc157 (and dozens of others) that have those EXTREMELY beneficial properties.. I mean.. freaking wonder drugs/supplements, by what I have heard so far and by what the studies show... | 23:47 |
Pawel[m]1 | why if it's so good, there is 0 interest to release this to the public? | 23:47 |
Pawel[m]1 | https://mybiohack.com/blog/bpc-157-pl-14736-pl-10-pld-116 | 23:47 |
Pawel[m]1 | I mean.. those are SUPER safe as well.. never heard a bad thing about them. People do it at home etc.. also studies can't find a lethal dose, you can pump it like crazy into animals and nothing happens to them etc. | 23:49 |
Pawel[m]1 | Why there is no interest to study it/sell it to people/ for FDA to approve it for human use, and the whole shabang? | 23:49 |
nixonix | how about the vaccine studies` | 23:49 |
Pawel[m]1 | also: https://selfhacked.com/blog/bpc-157/ | 23:49 |
Brainstorm | New from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): For Covid-19, more than ever before, it's vital to keep clinicians in the US healthcare workforce. These are 10 steps that will helpacpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M2…@AnnalsofIM @ACPinternists @EileenBarrettNM @DarilynMoyer pic.twitter.com/vomWQ9ylHS → https://is.gd/W8QT98 | 23:49 |
Arsanerit | Pawel[m]1: if they're so good then there will be peer reviewed scientific literature showing that they will be | 23:49 |
Arsanerit | if they're so good, show the evidence | 23:50 |
Pawel[m]1 | nixonix: will get back to you no need to repeat yourself | 23:50 |
Arsanerit | (anecdotes are not evidence) | 23:50 |
nixonix | `we should try to be on topic, at least most of time, imo | 23:50 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: read...... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/a9590e635f05290ede08feb4b3f4b536ceb7e0df) | 23:50 |
Arsanerit | Pawel[m]1: no | 23:51 |
Arsanerit | goodnight | 23:52 |
de-facto | whats that BPC-157? do we have a molecule for that? | 23:52 |
Pawel[m]1 | nixonix: so say that, don't spam me with the same question :) I am trying to have a conversation here. Plus: | 23:52 |
Pawel[m]1 | I told you - I did not say today vaccines are unsafe as I did not want to start that conversation right now. | 23:52 |
Pawel[m]1 | I was refering to the safety monitoring systems that don't work. | 23:52 |
Pawel[m]1 | Arsanerit: is this not a study? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8298609/ ?... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/45dfd06315a59931c2ee831edbba581ae0875891) | 23:54 |
lastshell | gut health is important is our 2nd brain | 23:54 |
Pawel[m]1 | lastshell: doctors would not agree with you.. only meds and vaccines ;p | 23:55 |
dTal | I'm pretty sure it's my first brain, actually | 23:56 |
nixonix | pawel, for the data from the trials, and then from all the countries, we know about the risks of these western approved vaccines pretty well currently, despite that in usa and some other countries harm reporting systems arent perfect. they are very good in countries like norway, australia, denmark etc | 23:56 |
dTal | The one in my head comes third. | 23:56 |
lastshell | lmao dTal i'm also getting hungry | 23:57 |
Pawel[m]1 | > <@pawel777:matrix.org> is this not a study? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8298609/ ?... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/868e7e96ad904094895eb6b8ca781f50fd382401) | 23:57 |
nixonix | we also know the minimum of harm that sars2 infection causes (not maximum, since the scope of permanent organ and brain damage etc isnt known currently), and based on data these vaccines are much saver than infection without protection, its clear by now | 23:58 |
nixonix | if you disagree, please provide some support to your position | 23:58 |
Pawel[m]1 | nixonix: sure, maybe you are right, I would love somehow confirm whether they are really that good... not sure how | 23:59 |
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