libera/##covid-19/ Friday, 2021-10-08

BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +22366 cases (now 4.3 million), +411 deaths (now 94910) since 22 hours ago — Bahrain: +64 cases (now 275458), +14820 tests (now 6.6 million) since 23 hours ago00:02
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): I don't like the T cell phenotypes after infection, especially in long covidThere are missing spike t cells and missing subsets.Not goodIt will take a while for this to be understood by the fieldAvoid infection imobiorxiv.org/content/10.110…medrxiv.org/content/10.110… [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/KBXDPT00:17
de-facto.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.07.21264626v100:26
Brainstormde-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: Protection Across Age Groups of BNT162b2 Vaccine Booster against Covid-19 | medRxiv00:26
de-facto"We extracted data for the period July 30, 2021 to October 5, 2021 from the Israeli Ministry of Health database regarding 4,616,994 persons."00:28
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: Protection, immune response fall after Pfizer COVID vaccine, data show: Mary Van Beusekom | News Writer | CIDRAP News Oct 07, 2021 One study finds dramatically lower protection against infection—but not hospitalization or death—5 to 7 months after vaccination. → https://is.gd/t9ByCC00:28
de-facto"Confirmed infection rates were ≈10-fold lower in the booster versus nonbooster group (ranging 8.8-17.8 across five age groups) and 4.7-11.4 fold lower in the secondary analysis."00:28
de-facto"Severe illness rates in the primary and secondary analysis were 19.1-fold (95% CI, 15.9-23) and 6.5-fold (95% CI, 5.1-8.4) lower for ages 60+, and 20.7-fold (95% CI, 9.7-44.2) and 2.9-fold (95% CI, 1-8.8) lower for ages 40-60. For ages 60+, COVID-19 associated death rates were 13.9-fold (95% CI, 8.8-22) lower in the primary analysis and 4.6-fold (95% CI, 2.7-7.9) lower in the secondary analysis."00:28
BrainstormNew from The Lancet (Online): [Comment] The path to global equity in mental health care in the context of COVID-19: The theme of the 2021 World Mental Health Day is “Mental Health in an Unequal World”, highlighting unequal access to mental health care across the world. This situation has been further worsened by governmental and public responses to [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/FO86GA00:38
BrainstormUpdates for India: +20153 cases (now 33.9 million), +277 deaths (now 450160) since 17 hours ago — Zimbabwe: +89 cases (now 131523), +1 deaths (now 4631), +5412 tests (now 1.4 million) since a day ago — Qatar: +78 cases (now 237225), +1 deaths (now 607), +5875 tests (now 2.7 million) since a day ago00:39
BrainstormUpdates for Colombia: +1677 cases (now 5.0 million), +30 deaths (now 126517), +48969 tests (now 25.8 million) since 23 hours ago01:04
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): "Dr Kyle Sheldrick, one of the group investigating the studies, said they had not found "a single clinical trial" claiming to show that ivermectin prevented Covid deaths that did not contain "either obvious signs of fabrication or errors so critical they invalidate the study"." → https://is.gd/QXrR9q01:11
BrainstormUpdates for Norway: +508 cases (now 192587), +22744 tests (now 7.9 million) since 20 hours ago — Ecuador: +382 cases (now 511699), +17 deaths (now 32836), +6732 tests (now 1.9 million) since 23 hours ago — Ghana: +209 cases (now 128368), +1 deaths (now 1158), +23627 tests (now 1.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +3 deaths (now 11131) since 10 hours ago01:29
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Health: CDC director defends decision to overrule expert panel on Covid booster shots for health and other front-line workers → https://is.gd/tjB2fv01:32
BrainstormUpdates for Uruguay: +156 cases (now 389661), +16503 tests (now 3.6 million) since 23 hours ago — Paraguay: +25 cases (now 460138), +3815 tests (now 1.9 million) since 23 hours ago02:06
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +2838 cases (now 2.1 million) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +129 deaths (now 137818) since 23 hours ago02:31
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada faces wave of terminations as workplace vaccine mandates take effect: lawyer → https://is.gd/6hGIL803:18
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: David Fisman (@DFisman): gonna go out on a limb here and say it's a 3 dose vaccine.  That's all.  Not rocket science. twitter.com/EricTopol/stat… → https://is.gd/lgHEG503:29
BrainstormUpdates for Mali: +26 cases (now 15394), +1357 tests (now 427890) since 23 hours ago — Curacao: +20 cases (now 16704), +1809 tests (now 287641) since 23 hours ago03:39
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Noted COVID-19 researchers reminde that poor countries must be vaccinated to end pandemic → https://is.gd/6xKfMR04:01
BrainstormUpdates for Barbados: +259 cases (now 10082), +1 deaths (now 86), +2165 tests (now 333787) since a day ago — St. Vin. and Gren.: +99 cases (now 3965), +1524 tests (now 79366) since a day ago — Guinea-Bissau: +3 cases (now 6115), +248 tests (now 99074) since 4 days ago04:04
BrainstormUpdates for Peru: +923 cases (now 2.2 million), +22 deaths (now 199581), +41014 tests (now 18.2 million) since 21 hours ago — Panama: +220 cases (now 468545), +4 deaths (now 7259), +7386 tests (now 3.9 million) since 23 hours ago04:29
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Flu jab vital this winter along with Covid vaccine: Experts are worried as this will be the first winter Covid and flu circulate fully at the same time. → https://is.gd/w5lIXx04:43
BrainstormUpdates for South Korea: +2172 cases (now 327976), +10 deaths (now 2554), +48223 tests (now 14.9 million) since 23 hours ago — New Zealand: +46 cases (now 4527), +1 deaths (now 28), +29927 tests (now 3.5 million) since a day ago05:06
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): What if Texas and Florida had vaccinated at the level of New England by July 31st?thelancet.com/journals/lanin…Prevention of:Deaths: Texas 6,353, Florida 16,235Hospitalizations: Texas 37,587, Florida 61,327@Pratha_Sah @Alison_Galvani @YaleSPH @PeterHotez  @TheLancetInfDis pic.twitter.com/hIGOCXGK4q → https://is.gd/kYuVQZ05:15
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +2497 cases (now 1.3 million), +16 deaths (now 25665) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +39907 cases (now 8.1 million) since 23 hours ago05:31
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +3801 cases (now 1.7 million) since 13 hours ago06:34
BrainstormNew from r/Science: science: More than 140,000 U.S. children lost a primary or secondary caregiver due to the COVID-19 pandemic → https://is.gd/DORwr006:50
thunderhttps://ocla.ca/a-letter-to-the-unvaccinated/06:55
BrainstormUpdates for Perlis, Malaysia: +200 cases (now 4422) since a day ago — W.P. Putrajaya, Malaysia: +59 cases (now 6349) since a day ago — Anguilla, United Kingdom: +46 cases (now 499) since 3 days ago — India: +20517 cases (now 33.9 million), +1385706 tests (now 580.0 million) since 14 hours ago07:36
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Kyrie Irving Ineligible For Friday’s Pre-Season Nets Game Because He’s Not Vaccinated → https://is.gd/SGMG0w08:47
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | October 08, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/99bzTb09:08
BrainstormUpdates for Czechia: +997 cases (now 1.7 million), +3 deaths (now 30496), +74881 tests (now 38.7 million) since a day ago — Taiwan: +12 cases (now 16283), +1 deaths (now 845), +164138 tests (now 6.6 million) since 23 hours ago09:40
BrainstormUpdates for Georgia: +2661 cases (now 628719), +30 deaths (now 9192), +36840 tests (now 9.2 million) since a day ago — Hungary: +774 cases (now 827410), +16 deaths (now 30275), +15718 tests (now 7.0 million) since a day ago10:05
BrainstormUpdates for Estonia: +954 cases (now 162735), +4 deaths (now 1391), +7058 tests (now 2.0 million) since 23 hours ago10:30
BrainstormNew from StatNews: ‘Naively ambitious’: How COVAX failed on its promise to vaccinate the world: The Bureau of Investigative Journalism and STAT reviewed confidential documents and spoke with officials from two dozen countries about frustration over vaccine delivery delays, wastage and more. → https://is.gd/7LLFPN10:45
BrainstormNew from ProPublica: Black Children Were Jailed for a Crime That Doesn’t Exist. Almost Nothing Happened to the Adults in Charge.: by Meribah Knight ,  Nashville Public Radio, and Ken Armstrong , ProPublica ] This article was produced for ProPublica’s Local Reporting Network in partnership with Nashville Public Radio . Sign up for Dispatches to get [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/3Tu5ca11:07
BrainstormUpdates for Slovakia: +1690 cases (now 422614), +15 deaths (now 12720), +11034 tests (now 3.7 million) since 21 hours ago11:07
BrainstormUpdates for Russia: +27246 cases (now 7.7 million), +936 deaths (now 214485), +600000 tests (now 195.6 million) since 23 hours ago — Poland: +1894 cases (now 2.9 million), +31 deaths (now 75834), +38494 tests (now 21.2 million) since 23 hours ago11:32
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Africans welcome new Malaria vaccine, but is it a ‘Game Changer’? → https://is.gd/t6K4jn12:00
BrainstormUpdates for Latvia: +1695 cases (now 168248), +4 deaths (now 2787), +2735 vaccines (now 945975), +18394 tests (now 4.5 million) since a day ago — Finland: +325 cases (now 145679), +2434 vaccines (now 4.1 million), +14750 tests (now 7.2 million) since 22 hours ago — Timor-Leste: +18 cases (now 19651), +26829 vaccines (now 468339) since 23 hours ago12:09
sdfgsdfgwow new zealand is also giving up on covid-zero approach12:23
sdfgsdfgbecause they have 44 daily cases12:23
sdfgsdfghttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-08/jacinda-ardern-covid-elimination-strategy-political-risk-/10051513012:24
BrainstormUpdates for Austria: +1878 cases (now 757675), +12 deaths (now 11084), +270111 tests (now 89.8 million) since a day ago12:34
BrainstormNew from Ars Technica: Science: No, your antibodies are not better than vaccination: An explainer → https://is.gd/IcnJMG12:43
BrainstormUpdates for Indonesia: +1384 cases (now 4.2 million), +66 deaths (now 142560), +268146 tests (now 41.1 million) since 23 hours ago12:59
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: US government insider’s Covid investigation finds China may have developed vaccine before outbreak → https://is.gd/8DOOiN13:04
BrainstormNew from ECDC: Data on the daily number of new reported COVID-19 cases and deaths by EU/EEA country: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. Each row/entry contains the number of new cases and deaths reported per day and per country in the EU/EEA. → https://is.gd/tBASDi13:15
BrainstormUpdates for Nepal: +715 cases (now 800997), +10 deaths (now 11210), +9466 tests (now 4.3 million) since 23 hours ago13:36
aradeshsdfgsdfg: that's a shame13:46
aradeshsingapore's covid cases looks really bad13:46
specingAre there mandatory vaccinations anywhere?13:46
aradeshprobably13:46
sdfgsdfgno it's just u.s13:47
specingThere was an outbreak of chickenpox or somethign in the 1970s in yugoslavia, and the entire 20 million population was revaccinated in a few months13:47
sdfgsdfgpolio ?13:47
aradeshu.s. doesn't have mandatory vaccinations i don't think?13:47
specingmandatroy covid vaccinations, I should say13:48
aradeshi thought USA are one of the freer countries in that regard13:48
sdfgsdfgmandatory vaccines can only be mandated for certain age groups or professions13:49
aradeshi bet there are some smaller countries with much more authoritarian policies on it though13:49
specingI don't understand why we don't have mandatory covid vaccination. So many lives could be saved and we could fully reopen again13:49
sdfgsdfgthere will never be a covid vaccine for "everyone"13:49
sdfgsdfgmandatory*13:49
aradeshspecing: a lot of western cultures value the idea of personal choice a lot13:49
aradeshand consider it a line that shouldn't be crossed13:50
aradeshthe UK prime minister has said things like "we won't make it mandatory, we don't do that sort of thing here."13:50
aradeshso clearly a cultural thing13:50
sdfgsdfggood, who does that sort of thing ?13:50
sdfgsdfgthey certainly brought it to the table for discussion13:50
specingaradesh: not even childhood vaccinations?13:55
specingaradesh: sdfgsdfg  I also like personal choice. However, in this case these people are jamming hospitals and in the process denying other people non-covid care13:57
specingwhich infringes on other people's rights13:57
sdfgsdfgthat's good, I thought we had a population crisis13:57
specinglol13:57
specingThe only other way to avoid jamming hospitals is to have long lockdows, but these too infringe on people's personal freedom13:58
specingbut now we have 20+ different COVID vaccines worldwide. Import them all and make it mandatory. Let people decide which to take13:58
specingmrna, dna, traditional, protein, whatever13:59
sdfgsdfgpeople don't want lockdowns13:59
specingthe problem is not people fearing "gene-jabs", the problem is that they cannot choose traditional vaccines14:00
sdfgsdfgthey'd rather die14:00
specingWell, I don't want to see myself or my loved ones die from completely treatable issues just because some covidiots jammed the hospitals14:00
specingand they cannot choose traditional vaccines because governments don't want to import them14:01
BrainstormUpdates for Romania: +13854 cases (now 1.3 million), +385 deaths (now 38927), +66015 tests (now 13.4 million) since a day ago — Bangladesh: +645 cases (now 1.6 million), +7 deaths (now 27654), +23302 tests (now 9.9 million) since 23 hours ago14:01
sdfgsdfgmaybe our loved ones should die so we can go to the beach and touch the sands again14:01
aradeshspecing: yup14:01
specingbecause we can't have chinese/cuban/russian vaccines in the west14:01
specingpoliticians would rather see people die than import these14:01
specingsdfgsdfg: WAT14:02
sdfgsdfgyeah future generations could call it the shedding14:02
sdfgsdfgvaccines don't prevent it, they just help... and if this comes back in waves again and again and again and again14:03
sdfgsdfgpeople are going to get their 5839848th vaccine shot and ignore combining all the cardiovascular sideeffects etc.. or simply lose vax efficiency and die from covid14:05
sdfgsdfgsideeffect risks*14:05
sdfgsdfgI want to go to the beach14:07
specingso what if you get boosters every 6 months? One day of headache is still better than being in ICU for a month and in re-learning to walk the next half a year14:07
specingthen go to the beach14:07
sdfgsdfgif half of the covid cases resulted in death we wouldn't be in this uncertainty14:10
sdfgsdfgwe'd be in lockdown and people would take it serious14:11
BrainstormNew from ECDC: Data on COVID-19 vaccination in the EU/EEA: The downloadable data files contain information on COVID-19 vaccination in the EU/EEA. The data are presented in the Vaccine Tracker and collected through The European Surveillance System (TESSy). → https://is.gd/tmWhQm14:18
specingsdfgsdfg: deaths are only part of the metric14:38
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +964 cases (now 848416), +4 deaths (now 11132), +36421 tests (now 11.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Brunei: +202 cases (now 8464), +5469 tests (now 394083) since a day ago14:38
specingI'm young, but I got myself vaccinated because of a thing called long covid14:38
specingI've read about young athletes that can no longer practice sport14:39
sdfgsdfgyeah its longer I heard but it heals eventually doesnt it ??? lol14:39
specingbecause covid wrecked them14:39
specingsdfgsdfg: perhaps, but it can severely disable you for a year14:39
specingWe dont actually have data yet on how long it takes for long covid to heal14:40
sdfgsdfgand it's a bit of a gamble which organ you're going to have affected by it. It could be your brain that's mostly affected by long covid right ?14:40
sdfgsdfgcentral nervous system14:40
sdfgsdfgI don't know how that's possible but that sounds exciting14:40
sdfgsdfgit looks like covid's over in a lot of countries, at least the wave is14:45
sdfgsdfgnow either it ends or our saviour super strain arrives14:46
BrainstormNew from EMA: News and press releases: Highlights of Management Board – October 2021 meeting, MB, 08/10/2021: The Management Board heard an update on recent activities in response to the pandemic. Since the last update in June, EMA has started a rolling review... → https://is.gd/dftwFV14:51
gustikwell, there are also post-vawes, the media vawes and super strains of journalistic dementia14:53
BrainstormUpdates for UAE: +136 cases (now 737509), +2 deaths (now 2111), +285453 tests (now 86.4 million) since a day ago15:03
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Pharmalittle: How COVAX failed on its promise to vaccinate the world; White House close to picking FDA nominee → https://is.gd/St8cL315:23
BrainstormNew from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Comirnaty, COVID-19 mRNA vaccine (nucleoside-modified), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 21/12/2020, Revision: 13, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/golaYG15:34
BrainstormUpdates for Belarus: +1995 cases (now 553795), +16 deaths (now 4259), +41577 tests (now 8.8 million) since a day ago — Uganda: +183 cases (now 124437), +2 deaths (now 3172), +3854 tests (now 1.7 million) since a day ago — Iceland: +55 cases (now 12147), +3004 tests (now 1.1 million) since a day ago [... want %more?]15:41
BrainstormUpdates for Namibia: +58 cases (now 128047), +1 deaths (now 3524), +1490 tests (now 716660) since 23 hours ago16:05
de-facto.title https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.025701616:08
Brainstormde-facto: From journals.plos.org: Development of ACE2 autoantibodies after SARS-CoV-2 infection16:08
de-facto.title https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/277656016:10
Brainstormde-facto: From jamanetwork.com: Sequelae in Adults at 6 Months After COVID-19 Infection | Infectious Diseases | JAMA Network Open | JAMA Network16:10
de-facto.title https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/handle/10044/1/8984416:12
Brainstormde-facto: From spiral.imperial.ac.uk: Spiral: Persistent symptoms following SARS-CoV-2 infection in a random community sample of 508,707 people16:12
de-facto.title https://3ca26cd7-266e-4609-b25f-6f3d1497c4cf.filesusr.com/ugd/8bd4fe_a338597f76bf4279a851a7a4cb0e0a74.pdf16:14
Brainstormde-facto: From 3ca26cd7-266e-4609-b25f-6f3d1497c4cf.filesusr.com: Untitled (Sherwood, Ondine)16:14
de-facto"The impact of COVID vaccination on symptoms of Long Covid. An international survey of 900 people with lived experience"16:14
de-factoso according to those links it looks more and more like a significant part of long-COVID (probably an umbrella term) is something related to a rogue auto-immune response triggered by infection with SARS-CoV-216:16
de-factoalso it seems its not restricted to severe cases or unhealthy people, there are also mild COVID cases that develop long-COVID and even very fit athletes that dont know if they ever will be able to do their sport again16:18
de-factoi post this to point out that long-COVID most likely is a lot more than "organ damage that heals" or such16:18
de-factoif its the immune system attacking the own body it may be a very long lasting problem that deserves more research to find treatment targets, afaik there are some like vaccination helps some to "rebalance" their immune response, for others blood pressure medications seems to have potentially an impact to lower the inflammatory reactions that may develop out of auto-ace2 antibodies etc16:20
de-facto.title https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/autoimmune-response-found-many-covid-1916:25
Brainstormde-facto: From www.nih.gov: Autoimmune response found in many with COVID-19 | National Institutes of Health (NIH)16:25
de-factothis is the main issue with COVID , the inflammation cascade (with ace2, super antigen etc pp) but also that it seems to trigger auto-immune reactions that may cause long lasting problems16:27
BrainstormNew from Virology.ws: Trial By Error: Professor Lubet’s Take on The New Yorker’s Long Covid Article: By David Tuller, DrPH I wrote a post last month about the recent wave of Long Covid coverage—some of it excellent (The Atlantic) and some way over the edge in its assertions of psychogenic causation of symptoms (The American Spectator, Spiked). [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/cygVoK16:28
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +4093 cases (now 1.7 million), +32 deaths (now 28200) since 23 hours ago — Saudi Arabia: +48 cases (now 547497), +3 deaths (now 8739), +51178 tests (now 29.3 million) since a day ago — Zambia: +32 cases (now 209315), +5081 tests (now 2.5 million) since 20 hours ago — United Kingdom: +37934 cases (now 8.1 million) since 22 hours ago16:30
de-factoand this will remain to be the main issue, vaccinations help with lowering the infection risk and vaccine breakthrough cases have approximately half the long-COVID risk compared to naive-infected COVID cases, but still it will remain to be an issue as long as the pathogen is tolerated to circulate16:32
de-factoas it seems to be the plan to establish an endemic SARS-CoV-2 it seems we have to accept a seasonal COVID wave will cause many long-COVID cases each fall and winter, tbh a choice that is not acceptable in my very own opinion, but it seems people see this differently16:34
de-factoi guess we have to see how it works out, my prediction would be as long as we have SARS-CoV-2 circulating life expectancy of many citizens will be severely diminished and previously perfectly healthy people will have to deal with some sort of damage to their health, possibly long lasting16:35
de-factoi guess we have to somehow get used to it that we never will recover to a state comparable to before the outbreak happened and deal with the given scenario as good as we can, maybe it will trigger more medical innovation over time16:38
de-factoor maybe at some point in time humanity may evolve to a state were it may be capable of controlling a pathogen outbreak like this and eradicate it, right now it seems its not possible (and also some people seem to put a lot of effort into preventing containment success)16:40
Pawel[m]1Very interesting what you guys discuss here.. and it's also interesting to see that Physicians are a) not reporting vaccine injuries / not being informed to do it b) getting punished for shining any light to the issue c) also interesting that the physician in the video said once she did start reporting them it became a full-time job for her..16:41
Pawel[m]1https://thehighwire.com/videos/did-the-vaers-whistleblower-lose-her-job/16:41
Pawel[m]1looking forward to any meritorical arguments16:41
de-factoto me the metric for deciding for a vaccination against COVID is the *individual* benefit to risk ratio, meaning the comparison of the risk from COVID that can be prevented by vaccination outways the risk induced by a particular vaccine would indicate over-all risk would be significantly lowered by vaccination16:43
de-factoand for the very majority (of people and vaccines) it seems that this is the case, more harm is prevented by COVID vaccinations that possible damage caused16:44
de-factobtw that is exactly the metric for approval of vaccines used by the agencies like FDA, EMA, WHO etc16:45
de-factothey try to get a complete picture that represents the majority of an age bracket (with included subgroups of special medical conditions) for both vaccine side effects (e.g. VAERS or other reporting systems) and compare that with the expectation value for the background incidence for the reported issues, if some of the reported effects exceed the expectation value they call this a "signal" and compare the increased risk by that given signal with how16:47
de-factomuch risk is prevented by vaccine protection against COVID-sideeffects16:47
de-factoso to me it does not make sense to speak of "VAERS-whistleblower" because its a *public* database for transparency, everyone can access it16:49
Pawel[m]1I did not ask you whether benefits outweigh the risks, I am bringing an attention to the issue of doctors not being informed to report, not reporting even though they are required to do so by law, and getting punished for bringing this issue up, as we can hear by the whistleblower in the video..16:49
Pawel[m]1How and why is this happening?16:49
Pawel[m]1How can I trust the health authorities/workers if they are not doing their basic due dilligance?16:49
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The Delta wave deaths in the US and Canadaand a 17 per cent point difference in fully vaccinated of total population pic.twitter.com/hWn6R5Kr9B → https://is.gd/Pdr2ek16:49
ublxPawel[m]1: explain yourself/your understanding or leave16:50
de-factonot everyone can interpret the data correctly though, beginning with how many symptoms per citizen is reported in that database over comparing that to values with expected background incidence (without vaccines, that is not known to most people) up to evaluating the individual benefit to risk ratio (many people still seem to severely underestimate the health risk associated with COVID)16:50
Pawel[m]1ublx: what do you mean explain myself or my understanding?16:50
Pawel[m]1leave? who are you to tell me to leave?16:50
ublxi mean provide the context that makes "happening" understandable (ie what is happening) and provide your understanding of what is happening16:52
ublxand by leave i mean i will remove you if you continue to emit contextless fragments16:52
Pawel[m]1de-facto: I never really asked you for your opinions on those. I was solely referring to the points mentioned in a) b) in the message above16:54
Pawel[m]1ublx I was referring to issues a) b) in my message above - why all of them are happening. I am little bit surprised you did not make that association.16:54
Pawel[m]1what else could I be talking about if not the issues that I mentioned in the message above?16:54
Pawel[m]1I repeated it in the very same message just above saying how and why is this happening16:55
Pawel[m]1" I am bringing an attention to the issue of doctors not being informed to report, not reporting even though they are required to do so by law, and getting punished for bringing this issue up, as we can hear by the whistleblower in the video.."16:55
Pawel[m]1it refers to the content of the video16:55
Pawel[m]1very rude by the way 'explain yourself or leave' .. i am trying to have a normal discussion with you guys16:56
Pawel[m]1and I did explain everything already...16:56
Raf[m]the problem I find with vaccination requirements is that it's already been mostly proven that vaccinated people still transmit the virus. so they primarily help the person who got vaccinated, not the people around them16:57
Raf[m]mask mandates are thus more important, even for people who are vaccinated16:57
de-factowell actually vaccinations help with both, reducing the risk of asymptomatic infection but also (even more) reducing the individual risk for developing a symptomatic or severe progression16:58
de-factobut yeah breakthrough cases can be as infectious as non-vaccinated for a short amount of time16:59
Pawel[m]1there are many issues really surrounding coronavirus/vaccines/masks etc.. but I think the problem that nowadays one cannot even discuss those - you get attacked immediately.. while safety should be EVERYONE's priority, so any issues with the safety, hence I would believe any issues with safety should be discussed and not rationalised/ignored in any way...17:00
Pawel[m]1Here is another video where doctors working for HHS admit that injuries are not being reported, for those who have time to watch it:17:02
Pawel[m]1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obdI7tgKLtA&t=118s17:02
ublxPawel[m]1: my apologies, your first message was obscured in my client so i assumed you were one of the context-free link droppers we are sometimes plagued by17:03
Pawel[m]1ublx: ok, no problem :)17:04
BrainstormUpdates for India: +4720 cases (now 33.9 million), +43 deaths (now 450195) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +7884 cases (now 4.3 million), +60 deaths (now 94921) since 20 hours ago17:08
de-factobtw i am not for mandatory vaccinations, but i hope that most understand their individual benefit (that is given for the majority) from vaccination against COVID17:08
de-factohave to leave, bbl17:08
Pawel[m]1de-facto: cool :) that's fair17:09
ublxhttps://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-highwire/17:11
ublx"In review, the primary purpose of this website is to promote anti-vaccination propaganda and health misinformation."17:11
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Mobile Interventions for the Prevention and Detection of Distress → https://is.gd/XdMwRY17:11
ublxwhile i won't claim that mediabiasfactcheck.com is itself without bias, its remarks on the-highwire are a sufficient nod towards the idea that the-highwire is not worth out time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obdI7tgKLtA seems as unlikely to be valuable17:15
ublx*our time17:15
Pawel[m]1<ublx> ""In review, the primary purpose..." <- 1) even if all the claims made by mediabiasfactcheck were true, which I don't think they all are.. what has thehighwire to do with the actual statements of the whistleblower ? thehighwire is only a platform in this case..17:16
ublxfor this channel's purposes, these links don't qualify as references, so they should not be posted here17:16
Raf[m]Project veritas is extremely sketchy17:17
Pawel[m]1Raf[m]: Again - project veritas is only a platform, should we not care about what the actual doctors/scientist from wihin HHS (or from Pfizer in the other recent videos of Project Veritas) said?17:20
Pawel[m]1This is not Project Veritas putting anything into anyone's mouth.. These are federal workers or Pfizer scientists statements cought on hidden camera - it doesn't matter whether they are displayed on CNN or TheHighWire or Alex Jones.17:20
ublxif you find information in such videos that you suspect is both true and important, you should validate that information yourself before posting it here in textual form with verifiable references, not with videos17:20
Pawel[m]1ublx: so you would prefer to read an article about it, that links to the video? am I understanding correctly?17:21
Pawel[m]1(I can't think of a more verifiable reference than the recording itself)17:21
ublxa video link is not an assertion, it is merely a url17:22
Pawel[m]1ublx: so the recording of a doctor/scientist admitting x y z, is not an evidence/verifiable reference?17:23
ublxof course not17:24
ublxhow do you know the recording is of a doctor?17:24
ublxbut this misses the point that i didn't even watch the video because why would i17:25
ublxand, frankly, no one in this channel will17:25
Pawel[m]1ublx: the names are always displayed - you can verify everything yourself17:26
ublxyes, but why would i watch a video posted by a conspiracy pseudoscience antivax propaganda website?17:27
Pawel[m]1ublx: You would only watch it if you care about the truth.. but I don't think you do, no disrespect.17:27
Pawel[m]1If someone tells me this is a living evidence of x y z, there are doctors/scientists admitting to any wrong doings on a hidden camera, I would not watch it only if I was ignorant not to watch it.17:30
Pawel[m]1Like i said, the platform doesn't matter, the actual evidence matters.17:30
Pawel[m]1The website you provided mediabiasfactcheck - provides few statements that Highwire made that are apparently incorrect (and I would argue about some of them), but a reasonable person in my opinoin, would also ask - how many things did the Highwire get right? Everyone can sometimes make a mistake.... think of Fauci ;)17:30
Pawel[m]1Basically you are attacking a medium here, not the actual evidence..17:31
ublxi haven't seen any evidence yet17:31
Pawel[m]1so watch the videos17:31
ublxbut they are bad17:31
Pawel[m]1you have got federal workers admitting ON TAPE that vaccine injuries are not being reported17:32
ublx(everyone uses heuristics to predict what is bad and not worth time)17:32
ublxhow do you know they are federal workers?17:32
Pawel[m]1who is/what is bad?17:32
ublxthe videos are bad17:32
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +2801 cases (now 2.1 million), +3 deaths (now 18627) since 15 hours ago — Greece: +2277 cases (now 673317), +27 deaths (now 15069), +201746 tests (now 21.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Chile: +986 cases (now 1.7 million), +62960 tests (now 22.3 million) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?]17:32
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Observational Study of Infants Fed on DHA (Breast Source or Milk Formula Source ) and Its Effects on Covid-19 Infected Infants and Severity → https://is.gd/FihXtY17:33
Pawel[m]1ublx: why?17:33
ublxwhy are they bad?17:33
ublxidk i didn't watch them17:34
ublxheuristics says they are bad17:34
Pawel[m]1ublx: think about it - if Project Veritas would be lying about the names of those federal workers/if the video was in any way untruthful, making such bold claims about a federal institution, it would be on all the front pages of all newspapers the next day.. and it is not.17:34
Pawel[m]1ublx: exactly you are commenting something you didn't even look into17:35
ublxi think you overestimate the interest that newspapers have in project veritas17:35
Pawel[m]1well - you have mediabiasfactcheckers factchecking the highwire, why are they not factchecking what project veritas said? these statements are huge/a bombshell - if any claims were untrue, they would be highly interested in pointing that out asap17:36
Pawel[m]1I think you are highly biased in your thinking17:36
Pawel[m]1like I said you would at least have tons of fact checkers saying that project veritas shown false evidence/fake doctors etc..17:38
Pawel[m]1and for the bombshells of that order of magnitude - yes you would have mainstream media disputing it17:38
ublxhttps://mediabiasfactcheck.com/project-veritas/17:39
ublx"MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY"17:39
Pawel[m]1other videos of Project Veritas show actual scientists admitting they work for an "evil corporation" "run on covid money" and then they advice against using vaccines for young people (even though they admit they should not be saying this), on camera17:40
Pawel[m]1and that natural immunity is better than vaccine immunity17:40
Pawel[m]1I repeat , those are HUGE statements..17:40
ublx"produces secretly recorded undercover audio and video encounters, some selectively edited to imply its subjects said things they did not"17:40
Pawel[m]1ublx: heh man.. you just look for excauses not to watch the evidence17:40
Pawel[m]1you are attacking the messanger, not disputing the actual message17:40
ublxwell17:41
ublxenough of this17:41
Pawel[m]1ublx: yes and they win all courtcases whenever mainstream media try to smear antyhing on them..17:41
Pawel[m]1recently they were accused of editing out a video and they won in court, which confirmed that the edit did not change in any way the meaning of the video17:41
Pawel[m]1you are reading lies basically17:41
Pawel[m]1and dismissing evidence without looking into objectively17:42
ublxepistemology is hard17:47
Pawel[m]1Interesting fact :) Project Veritas has forced journalists, fact checkers, mainstream media organisation to retract their statements/articles about Project Veritas 347 times!! This is how many times they have been lied about (or potentially more).18:02
Pawel[m]1https://www.projectveritas.com/wall-of-shame-retracto/18:02
Pawel[m]1The smearing campaign never ends..18:03
nana_lol PVeritas must be true then18:05
imaginaryit's funny how it's always pfizer that's attacked and not biontech18:07
imaginaryjust checked out the first "article" on that site and yikes18:08
imaginaryvery disingenuous, gotta be careful out there, pawel18:08
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +3017 cases (now 4.7 million), +30 deaths (now 131228), +271566 tests (now 94.7 million) since a day ago18:10
LjLtaking things out of context can be very powerful. there is a reason why disinformation campaign often consist of "screenshots" of tweets, posts, bits of papers, graphics or other things, instead of, and without the actual URL to them18:11
LjLi imagine the same applies to cut bits of video18:11
imaginaryyeah, isolated quotes can be very powerful18:12
imaginaryi'm sure they're legal team makes sure they're not crossing any legal bounds while still accomplishing their goal18:12
Pawel[m]1LjL: Best is to watch it before judging anything...18:13
LjLwhat have i judged?18:14
LjLi've made a general statement about out of context things18:14
LjLdo you believe my statement is incorrect?18:14
Pawel[m]1LjL: I also am making a general statement18:14
Pawel[m]1..18:14
Pawel[m]1best is to watch anything before juding it* that's what I meant18:15
Pawel[m]1jeeez. best is to watch something before judging it**18:16
Pawel[m]1sorry, brain fog18:16
ublxPawel[m]1: you present as fact that "Project Veritas has forced journalists ..." then as proof of this fact you provide a link to a PV page (presumably one on which PV makes the assertion you have presented as fact. This is too banal to enter into. Actually a quick look suggests each supposed retraction is in fact a link to a video... ?18:26
ublxlets not have this nonsense in this channel. Pawel[m]1: 30 days18:26
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: Infection rates highest among young secondary school pupils, data shows | UK News → https://is.gd/KcK9qj18:27
nana_aww18:28
BrainstormNew from r/Science: science: Real-world data show that filters clean COVID-causing virus from air → https://is.gd/owReUl18:48
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): COVID19: Clinical trialists to be offered 'top-up' vaccine doses → https://is.gd/2IQB0519:20
LjLour PM apparently said "thanks to the vaccines, the pandemic is over" O.o19:34
LjLthat seems like an irresponsible thing to say19:35
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +34959 cases (now 8.1 million), +126 deaths (now 137942) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +4158 cases (now 1.7 million), +32 deaths (now 28205) since 23 hours ago19:37
imaginaryLjL: yikes19:39
imaginarycases are going down over there tho so he's probably feeling confident19:39
LjLimaginary, yeah but cases are going up elsewhere where people are vaccinated so the claim is nonsensical19:56
LjLthis pandemic is always like this19:56
LjL"we're a special case"19:56
LjLvaccines aren't stopping it for others, but they are for us19:56
LjL\o/19:56
imaginary\o/20:00
imaginarylol20:00
BrainstormUpdates for Spain: +2309 cases (now 5.0 million), +77 deaths (now 86778) since a day ago20:02
BrainstormUpdates for Greenland: +19 cases (now 620), +153 tests (now 77649) since a day ago20:39
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): While we await vaccines to be approved for children, what is the best way to prevent Covid for them?Adults getting vaccinatedresearchsquare.com/article/rs-958… pic.twitter.com/pLA7JNtZMa → https://is.gd/Vka1Jm20:45
BrainstormUpdates for Moldova: +1470 cases (now 304678), +25 deaths (now 6979), +18233 tests (now 1.8 million) since a day ago — Chad: +5 cases (now 5058), +290 tests (now 147563) since 22 hours ago21:04
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Prof. Shane Crotty (@profshanecrotty): We think this is a key paper on COVID-19 immunity & memory. Great leadership by @DonnaFarber3! Key findings: 🔵 Germinal centers still present months after infection🔵 Lots of Tissue resident memory T cells, even in the elderly🔵 Tissue resident memory B cells in lungs & LNs [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/qB09jF21:06
pwr22UK cases are once again going up again21:38
pwr22after a period of relative good movement in cases, deaths and hospitalisations21:38
BrainstormNew from Virological.org: Latest posts: Assessing evolutionary pressures on the SARS-CoV-2 Mu (B.1.621) clade: Assessing evolutionary pressures on the SARS-CoV-2 μ (B.1.621) clade Authors: Alexander G Lucaci 1 , Jordan D Zehr 1 , Stephen D Shank 1 ,  Darren Martin 2 , Anton Nekrutenko 3 , Sergei L Kosakovsky Pond 1 Institute for Genomics and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/V6WUNG21:49
BrainstormUpdates for India: +19850 cases (now 33.9 million), +248 deaths (now 450408) since 21 hours ago22:06
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The comprehensive list of #SARSCoV2 variants that have competed with Delta pic.twitter.com/fVzmHkFyNP → https://is.gd/9Xicc322:10
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +9742 cases (now 4.3 million) since 22 hours ago22:31
BrainstormNew from WebMD: Grieving Family Warns of COVID’s Awful Toll During Pregnancy: On average, the U.S. sees about 55 maternal deaths a month.  In August of 2021, 22 pregnant people died of COVID-19 alone, the highest toll of any single month during the pandemic. → https://is.gd/WdfG3922:42
lastshellhttps://www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/covid-antibodies-wane-six-months-after-second-shot-except-among-one-group-1.1027312022:53
lastshelloverweight people keep antibodies longer ^22:54
lastshellin very confused22:55
lastshellbut at the same time facinated with the human body22:58
ublxseems to be the study (not) referred to in the haaretz link: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa211458323:20
BrainstormNew from NPR: The Los Angeles County sheriff won't enforce a vaccine mandate in his agency: Sheriff Alex Villanueva oversees the nation's largest sheriff's department, with roughly 18,000 employees. He said his employees are willing to be terminated rather than get vaccinated. → https://is.gd/Dw8tlW23:35
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): A gene variant (OAS1) recently report to be associated with severe Covidscience.org/doi/10.1126/sc…@ScienceMagazine is now also shown to be associated with Alzheimer's diseaseacademic.oup.com/brain/advance-… pic.twitter.com/fbBkhQgbtb → https://is.gd/PvQOwj23:45
BrainstormNew from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA SALUTE - ORDINANZA 8 ottobre 2021: Ulteriori misure  urgenti  in  materia  di  contenimento  e  gestionedell'emergenza epidemiologica  da  COVID-19  nella  Regione  Sicilia.(21A06004) → https://is.gd/ROKFaA23:56

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