libera/##covid-19/ Wednesday, 2021-10-13

BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): How can you be the country that made the 1st Covid vaccines, did clinical trials at warp speed with 95% efficacy and remarkable safety, has more than enough shots for every resident, yet be 52nd on the list, and continuing to fall? ig.ft.com/coronavirus-va… @FT pic.twitter.com/qbYQFowPTi → https://is.gd/Lgnnih00:09
BrainstormUpdates for Bahrain: +69 cases (now 275803), +13622 tests (now 6.6 million) since a day ago — India: +16021 cases (now 34.0 million) since 21 hours ago00:36
* exec_cosmoflips[ posted a file: (7472KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/AkebqugeCdJuPNDOMNZtLeYP/All.pdf >00:59
BrainstormUpdates for Colombia: +1075 cases (now 5.0 million), +37 deaths (now 126692), +41685 tests (now 26.1 million) since a day ago — Argentina: +1064 cases (now 5.3 million), +56 deaths (now 115547), +104862 tests (now 24.3 million) since a day ago — Switzerland: +3 deaths (now 11153) since 10 hours ago01:08
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Brazil's Bolsonaro: 'Bored' by questions on Covid-19 death toll, world's 2nd highest → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/q6xqda/brazils_bolsonaro_bored_by_questions_on_covid19/01:12
LjL-Matrixexec_cosmoflips: that sort of material isn't welcome here. it has basically one "source", and that source is a scam01:15
LjL-MatrixYou probably disagree since you've posted it, but I can't help with that, or rather I won't01:15
I_AM_THE_LAARWWAlso regardless of the content if you're gonna just drop something in the room please be prepared to discuss it01:16
I_AM_THE_LAARWWLike IRL you wouldn't just walk into a group of people and throw some papers at them and say nothing01:16
I_AM_THE_LAARWWSame here01:17
exec_cosmoflips[LjL-Matrix: What do you mean? There are multiple sources linked throughout the file01:17
exec_cosmoflips[Which one is a scam?01:17
LjL-MatrixJust for instance the statement "OpenVAERS says 8,088 permanently disabled" is immediately spotted as malicious, because it's implies to be caused by the vaccines, but if one actually looks at what VAERS says about itself, it definitely does NOT claim to have reports that *are caused* by the vaccines. They are whatever people report, if people think they may be related to a vaccine, they'll report them in association with that vaccine.01:17
exec_cosmoflips[Yeah ofc01:18
LjL-Matrixexec_cosmoflips: I hovered on a bunch and they went to https://www.skirsch.com01:18
exec_cosmoflips[That argument is addressed later on01:18
LjL-MatrixAnother thing, the "Vision test", "Can you spot the unsafe vaccine?" - I have an obvious follow-up question, "Can you spot the only vaccine that was given to BILLIONS of people in a few MONTHS and that drew worldwide attention for a year?"01:19
LjL-Matrix(... during a pandemic, when there are excess deaths anyway)01:19
exec_cosmoflips[Good point01:19
LjL-Matrix"And it’s all for nothing... In Israel, the vaccines are making no difference in protecting people from being infected; the core use case" - So it's not-so-subtly jumping from "it's ALL for nothing" to "it's for nothing in one specific way, that we arbitrarily decide is core". But obviously not making a lot of people die is a worthwhile goal even if they get infected anyway. But it's easier to write something like that in big letters01:21
LjL-Matrixinstead...01:21
exec_cosmoflips[Yeah, he failed to make a coherent point there01:22
LjL-MatrixThen "In fact, it appears vaccination is making01:22
LjL-Matrixthings worse" has another classic misleading indication: "81% of Covid-19 deaths are among the vaccinated", which is pointless when you don't specify how many are vaccinate and which age and risk groups they're in. It may be addressed elsewhere but there's a clear implication done by copypasting (actually, screenshotting, so I couldn't even copypaste it myself and had to re-type it) such a headline01:22
dTalah the old simpsons paradox again01:23
LjL-Matrix"So they changed the story... “the vaccines help prevent you from dying if you get infected”"  ~  yes, well, Delta changed the story. There was a fair chance (not at all a certainty, many people *always* stressed it was a certainty, although I was honestly among the ones who thought it was the case) that the vaccine would prevent infection and transmission. But with Delta they definitely don't do those things well. But the "story" was01:24
LjL-Matrixgiven before Delta was around, so, uh, yeah, it was changed, because the virus did01:24
dTalif you vaccinated every single person, 100% of Covid-19 deaths would be among the vaccinated - although the number of deaths would be lower.01:24
dTalConversely, I can truthfully claim that not a single person who has drunk my miracle elixer has died of Covid-1901:26
LjL-Matrix"But that’s not true either if you are <50. Vaccines make you slightly more likely to die if you get infected"  —   this is also clearly based on a wrong reading of the data, because if one reads the screenshotted *thing it says*, the initial cohort that makes up the whole table is "people who attended to emergency care + deaths of people who were sequenced". So you can't just pretend those are the percentage of vaccinated vs01:26
LjL-Matrixunvaccinated people who died. The "computation" he makes as "Computation: Death rate of unvaxed < Death rate of vaxed since 132/248803 < 48/85407  (.053% < .056%)" is meaningless.01:26
analbleedingdTal: how are you?01:27
LjL-MatrixIt's like... among the people who were infected and had to show up for emergency care, yeah, since they were already in a pretty bad shape, about the same amount died whether vaccinated or not01:27
dTalI'm fine. Do I know you?01:27
LjL-Matrixwhich does not surprise me a lot, dunno about others01:27
LjLanalbleeding, what is this?01:27
analbleedingmaybe...01:27
analbleedinghell LjL01:28
analbleedingso what's cookin dTal?01:28
dTalWhy are you talking to me01:30
LjLanalbleeding, are you stalking dTal or something? what is this? why do you join with a strange nickname like this and immediately address dTal?01:31
analbleedingwe are friends01:31
LjLhe doesn't seem to see it that way from a cursory glance01:31
analbleedingwhat do you mean?01:32
dTalI don't recognize your nick. I asked if I knew you and you replied "maybe".01:32
analbleedingit's a joke...01:33
analbleedinghaha01:33
dTalMoving on...01:34
analbleedingdTal: are you mad?01:35
dTalPlease stop highlighting me.01:36
specingIt's the "how are you?" person again01:37
analbleedingdTal: quit being mad please01:39
analbleedingi just said hello...01:40
dTalI asked you nicely.01:40
analbleedingshit01:41
analbleedinghe is really mad...01:42
nana_somehow 2000 US deaths / day isn't a story01:44
nana_this new covid pill is getting nice free news adverts01:45
LjLwell the numbers are certainly intriguing if they hold up01:46
LjLso i'm not sure it's undeserved, although i also read an article saying it's around $17 to produce (for a therapy course), but they sell it in the US at $70001:46
LjLwhich, of course, people immediately argued is needed to cover the R&D costs and so on01:46
LjLi am unable to judge it properly but it seems like a *lot* of margin01:46
nana_esp. if they get it into the national stockpile, like the other less useful antivirals01:51
LjLand also the article argued that it had been partly financed by the US federal government, so those prices were doubly unjustified01:52
LjLalthough the financing was in the tens of millions, not sure if it covers the costs01:52
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): But the US did worse with vaccinations, with respect to minimal uncoupling of 4th wave cases vs hospitalizations and deaths (both ~70% of 3rd wave, prior to vaccines) pic.twitter.com/dLpPZahrkR → https://is.gd/axEfUJ02:05
DreddWhich covid pill is it specifically and how does it work?02:05
LjLDredd, i assume they're referring to Merck's pill, it's an antiviral, and de-facto didn't like how it works but he can probably explain it better than me ;(02:05
DreddAbsolutely strictly probably with no exceptions?02:06
LjLhttps://www.zotero.org/groups/4391070/covid_links/search/Merck/titleCreatorYear/items/BF4AHBKX/item-list02:07
LjLDredd, he just thinks the way it interferes with the virus, it's going to interfere with some regular biological processes too. which i assume it will to some extent, but... the trial didn't see any particular adverse effects02:07
DreddHmm, that sounds like something I would also think 😀02:09
DreddThe proof is in the testing and such and also whether the negative effects on normal stuff are outweighed by stronger effects against covid02:10
BrainstormUpdates for Uruguay: +119 cases (now 390234), +11636 tests (now 3.7 million) since a day ago — Kuwait: +37 cases (now 412158), +17792 tests (now 4.5 million) since a day ago02:10
de-facto.title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41594-021-00651-002:12
Brainstormde-facto: From www.nature.com: Mechanism of molnupiravir-induced SARS-CoV-2 mutagenesis | Nature Structural & Molecular Biology02:13
LjLDredd, iirc they actually said they had more adverse events in the placebo arm. but it's a press release and i'm not sure if they've now turned it into a published paper, so probably best to withhold final judgment until then02:13
nana_topol convinced me to get the booster02:17
nana_Scott Gottlieb is good, but hard to trust since he is on Pfizer's board02:19
LjLi wonder if we'll have boosters for "regular people" any time soon02:21
LjLbut i also don't think it'll be sustainable to get a booster every 6 months... every year was already a prospect that made me unhappy... i really hope we catch up with the variants02:22
ublxuhm. didn't we ban cosmo?02:22
BrainstormUpdates for Trinidad and Tobago: +152 cases (now 52999), +11 deaths (now 1566), +9181 tests (now 370420) since a day ago — Netherlands: +2904 cases (now 2.1 million) since 21 hours ago — Malawi: +15 cases (now 61694), +2 deaths (now 2292), +775 tests (now 416336) since a day ago02:35
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 15 Dogs, 1 Cat Killed by Vietnamese Authorities After Their Owners Caught COVID-19 → https://is.gd/fUaJPU02:36
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Josiah Grindrod (@JT_Grindrod): When getting angry at the people who willfully prolong the pandemic through selfish actions, it's easy to forget that there's many people who have no choice but be exposed to and catch COVID. Thanks for calling me out @BryBrightside, I did need the reality check. → https://is.gd/7NTd9N03:29
BrainstormUpdates for Curacao: +33 cases (now 16837), +1 deaths (now 169), +1978 tests (now 294240) since 23 hours ago03:38
LjLspecing, you win03:40
BrainstormUpdates for Barbados: +342 cases (now 11474), +3 deaths (now 101), +2781 tests (now 345246) since 23 hours ago — Djibouti: +51 cases (now 13320), +1 deaths (now 178), +621 tests (now 228235) since 20 hours ago — Channel Islands: +49 cases (now 12017), +17509 tests (now 964719) since 23 hours ago — Guinea-Bissau: +2 cases (now 6121), +242 tests (now 99772) since a day ago04:03
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New York must allow religious exemptions to COVID-19 vaccine mandate, judge rules. → https://is.gd/o4RBcO04:11
LjLugh04:12
twomoonhi ljl04:12
LjLhaving some genuine reason to be a bit afraid of the vaccine after reading of adverse events and all that: not valid04:13
LjLhaving a sect that says you can't use cells that spawned from some fetus in 1970: valid04:13
LjLi'm just undecided between ugh and bleh04:13
LjLhi twomoon04:13
twomoonlol04:14
twomoonyeah exemptions are indeed annoying04:15
lastshelli been loaded with work any possitive news ?04:18
LjLhmm04:18
LjLi still only have Merck's pill, but i haven't been paying close attention the past few days04:19
lastshellmerck's pill is under fda emergency  ?04:19
LjLnot yet i think04:20
LjLbut i bet it'll happen soon, Merck has submitted it for approval04:20
lastshelllooks like not yet but maybe soon https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/11/covid-pill-merck-asks-fda-to-authorize-antiviral-for-emergency-use.html04:20
sdfgsdfgyou have the merck's pill ?04:29
sdfgsdfgso with the new pill you guys are going to halve the deaths to 1000 a day huh04:37
sdfgsdfgthat sounds fantastic04:37
sdfgsdfglets just have 1000 people die every day instead of 2000 and call it success :P04:37
sdfgsdfgI got a job offer from the gov body that's developing the app for vax certificates in different states. If I got the job I'd be able to check the public certificates they're using to generate the QR code04:38
sdfgsdfgand maybe fake my way into freedom04:39
sdfgsdfgthey're destroying our basic rights anyways, it'd only be fair04:39
BrainstormUpdates for Bermuda: +35 cases (now 5536), +3 deaths (now 92), +5141 tests (now 563064) since 4 days ago — Faroe Is.: +10 cases (now 1311), +1000 tests (now 448000) since a day ago04:41
nana_aren't they doing boosters for all those over 50 in the UK04:49
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: In review, FDA stays neutral on the need for a Moderna booster → https://is.gd/cUh0gg05:05
BrainstormUpdates for Bolivia: +480 cases (now 504601), +3 deaths (now 18806), +6202 tests (now 2.5 million) since 23 hours ago — New Zealand: +54 cases (now 4759), +25800 tests (now 3.6 million) since 23 hours ago05:06
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: WHO will announce new team to study coronavirus origins → https://is.gd/45hDmt05:15
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +2440 cases (now 1.3 million), +18 deaths (now 25713), +164172 tests (now 20.6 million) since 23 hours ago — Peru: +679 cases (now 2.2 million), +21 deaths (now 199727), +35150 tests (now 18.3 million) since 11 hours ago — Panama: +250 cases (now 469440), +4 deaths (now 7275), +7186 tests (now 4.0 million) since a day ago [... want %more?]05:30
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Hundreds of police officers have died from Covid-19. Vaccines remain a hard sell → https://is.gd/DpNu5i05:37
grys"Apart from a broken bone in her arm when she was younger, Teresa was a healthy 10-year-old social and happy girl, who never had the flu or even an ear infection, Nicole said." https://is.gd/5OhZUq --- it is important maybe that everyone DOES get sick as often as they can, spend more time in the wild etc to get exposed to  a variety of pathogens? has there been any research about that?05:57
LjLfor some diseases, absent vaccines, that does trivially seem to be the case05:58
LjLchickenpox: if you get it as a child, it's usually not *too* threatening, and then you're protected (although you may get shingles later in life, and that's ugh)05:58
LjLbut if you get it in adulthood it's a bit more uh oh05:58
BrainstormUpdates for India: +15823 cases (now 34.0 million), +1325399 tests (now 586.4 million) since 23 hours ago06:33
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: US to lift Canada, Mexico land border restrictions in November for vaccinated visitors: report → https://is.gd/Ft665K07:00
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The 'gutless' Christian podcaster who filmed himself abusing a café barista for asking for proof of a Covid-19 vaccine - and it's not the first time he's pulled the stunt → https://is.gd/dNETYo07:21
BrainstormUpdates for Yukon, Canada: +28 cases (now 824) since 4 days ago — Guangxi, China: +8 cases (now 314) since a day ago — Lombardy, Italy: +306 cases (now 887200), +3 deaths (now 34093) since a day ago — Shimane, Japan: +1 deaths (now 5) since a day ago07:35
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: Durga Puja 2021: In pandemic, some childhood nostalgia and a strange disenchantment → https://is.gd/aE6HXN08:03
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | October 13, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://is.gd/cRYydI09:06
BrainstormNew from Politico: construction: UK GDP grows 0.4 percent in August, still below pre-pandemic levels → https://is.gd/UgmIDo09:17
undefined_bobhello09:20
BrainstormUpdates for Georgia: +4837 cases (now 645195), +26 deaths (now 9332), +49386 tests (now 9.4 million) since a day ago — Czechia: +1529 cases (now 1.7 million), +6 deaths (now 30518), +59952 tests (now 39.0 million) since a day ago09:39
BrainstormUpdates for Lithuania: +2740 cases (now 357801), +26 deaths (now 5308), +25388 tests (now 5.2 million) since a day ago — Israel: +1160 cases (now 1.3 million), +12 deaths (now 7959), +224962 tests (now 28.0 million) since 15 hours ago — Hungary: +814 cases (now 830725), +10 deaths (now 30330), +14075 tests (now 7.1 million) since a day ago10:04
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Ukraine reports second-highest daily COVID-19 related deaths since pandemic start → https://is.gd/EV2sVL10:11
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: U.S. to reopen land border to fully vaccinated Canadians next month → https://is.gd/wBcUs010:21
BrainstormUpdates for Estonia: +1227 cases (now 167828), +2 deaths (now 1404), +7311 tests (now 2.0 million) since 23 hours ago10:29
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Watch: Merck’s Covid pill could transform treatment. Here’s how it works: Molnupiravir is the first oral treatment that has shown promise in treating Covid-19. Watch this short explainer to see how it works in the body to combat the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/A99HNz10:43
BrainstormNew from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen, COVID-19 vaccine (Ad26.COV2-S [recombinant]), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 11/03/2021, Revision: 10, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/leysw610:53
BrainstormUpdates for Austria: +2614 cases (now 766542), +15 deaths (now 11135), +329066 tests (now 91.3 million) since 22 hours ago11:06
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: Orphan: Orphan designation: Radio-iodinated (131I) anti-CD45 murine monoclonal antibody, Treatment in haematopoietic stem cell transplantation, 14/10/2016, Positive → https://is.gd/PrxH6611:15
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: After family members contracted COVID-19, Ozzy Osbourne says worshiping Satan protected him from virus → https://is.gd/OkAoza11:25
BrainstormUpdates for Russia: +28717 cases (now 7.9 million), +984 deaths (now 219329), +500000 tests (now 198.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Poland: +2640 cases (now 2.9 million), +40 deaths (now 75958), +87745 tests (now 21.4 million) since 23 hours ago — Slovakia: +2406 cases (now 429886), +20 deaths (now 12772), +13927 tests (now 3.7 million) since 23 hours ago11:31
BrainstormNew from BMJ: The UK government tested the response to a coronavirus—why are we only discovering this now?: The official inquiry into the UK’s handling of the covid-19 pandemic will have many things to consider. This week, another item was added to that list. Previously, it seemed that one reason the... → https://is.gd/lHqTdt11:36
BrainstormNew from BMJ: David Oliver: When doctors are accused of faking covid experiences: In the pandemic we’ve seen repeated instances in social media, radio phone-ins, and newspapers where some members of the public, with little healthcare experience or specialist knowledge, deny point... → https://is.gd/iH0pB811:47
BrainstormUpdates for Latvia: +2236 cases (now 175890), +17 deaths (now 2836), +21731 tests (now 4.6 million) since 22 hours ago — Finland: +753 cases (now 148672), +13071 tests (now 7.2 million) since 23 hours ago — Guinea: +9 cases (now 30535), +2 deaths (now 385), +1098 tests (now 561618) since 8 hours ago12:02
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +3 deaths (now 18644) since 18 hours ago — United Kingdom: +37829 cases (now 8.3 million) since 20 hours ago12:40
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Singapore's 'vaccinated travel lanes' spark a surge in flight searches, says Expedia → https://is.gd/2blzs713:01
BrainstormUpdates for Indonesia: +1233 cases (now 4.2 million), +48 deaths (now 142811), +261731 tests (now 42.4 million) since a day ago — New Caledonia: +248 cases (now 9665), +16 deaths (now 225) since 11 hours ago — Brunei: +193 cases (now 9665), +3 deaths (now 67), +6357 tests (now 419526) since a day ago13:11
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canberra set to become the most Covid vaccinated city in the world | Canberra → https://is.gd/iRS4b213:22
de-factosdfgsdfgs, "I got a job offer from the gov body that's developing the app for vax certificates in different states. If I got the job I'd be able to check the public certificates they're using to generate the QR code "13:24
de-factosdfgsdfgs, "and maybe fake my way into freedom"13:24
de-factoi must warn you, what you propose is "Urkundenfälschung" (faking of official documents) and that is punishable by law with up to 5 years of prison13:25
de-facto.title https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/267.html13:25
Brainstormde-facto: From dejure.org: § 267 StGB - Urkundenfälschung - dejure.org13:25
de-facto.tr <de Wer zur Täuschung im Rechtsverkehr eine unechte Urkunde herstellt, eine echte Urkunde verfälscht oder eine unechte oder verfälschte Urkunde gebraucht, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu fünf Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft.13:26
Brainstormde-facto, German to English: Anyone who creates a false document to deceive legal transactions, falsifies a real document or uses a fake or falsified document is punished with imprisonment for up to five years or with a fine. (MyMemory, Google)13:26
de-factoit may even end up as extra severe case if circumstances imply that you would have planed to fake many certs for others that would be up to 10 years prison13:28
BrainstormUpdates for Romania: +15733 cases (now 1.4 million), +390 deaths (now 40461), +149390 tests (now 13.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Belarus: +2060 cases (now 563813), +17 deaths (now 4336), +44492 tests (now 8.9 million) since 22 hours ago — Senegal: +6 cases (now 73848), +1 deaths (now 1869), +1648 tests (now 817801) since a day ago13:36
de-facto.title https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(21)01278-X13:47
Brainstormde-facto: From www.cell.com: A highly potent antibody effective against SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern: Cell Reports13:47
de-facto"Here, we screen B cells from COVID-19 donors and identify P5C3, a highly potent and broadly neutralizing monoclonal antibody with picomolar neutralizing activity against all SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern (VOCs) identified to date."13:47
de-facto"Structural characterization of P5C3 Fab in complex with the spike demonstrates a neutralizing activity defined by a large buried surface area, highly overlapping with the receptor-binding domain (RBD) surface necessary for ACE2 interaction"13:48
undefined_bobhi de-facto13:51
undefined_bobhow are you doing?13:51
de-factoim good, all well here, how about you?13:53
de-facto.title https://elifesciences.org/articles/7261913:55
Brainstormde-facto: From elifesciences.org: mRNA vaccine-induced T cells respond identically to SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern but differ in longevity and homing properties depending on prior infection status | eLife13:55
de-facto"Focusing on the T cell response, we conducted a longitudinal study of infection-naïve and COVID-19 convalescent donors before vaccination and after their first and second vaccine doses, using a high-parameter CyTOF analysis to phenotype their SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells."13:56
de-facto"In infection-naïve individuals, the second dose boosted the quantity and altered the phenotypic properties of SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells, while in convalescents the second dose changed neither."13:57
de-facto"Spike-specific T cells from convalescent vaccinees differed strikingly from those of infection-naïve vaccinees, with phenotypic features suggesting superior long-term persistence and ability to home to the respiratory tract including the nasopharynx."13:57
de-facto"These results provide reassurance that vaccine-elicited T cells respond robustly to emerging viral variants, confirm that convalescents may not need a second vaccine dose, and suggest that vaccinated convalescents may have more persistent nasopharynx-homing SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells compared to their infection-naïve counterparts."13:57
de-facto(pdf hidden in that "down arrow" dropdown above the headline)13:59
BrainstormUpdates for Nepal: +326 cases (now 803878), +4 deaths (now 11261), +3671 tests (now 4.3 million) since 22 hours ago — Gibraltar: +25 cases (now 5707), +1120 tests (now 371920) since 22 hours ago14:01
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: France Donates 688,800 Doses of AstraZeneca Vaccine to Indonesia | 13OCT21 → https://is.gd/GC9MQy14:05
undefined_bobI got new masks which are really nice14:05
undefined_bobthey fit my face better than every other one I had before14:06
undefined_bobI finally got my hands on a box of Dräger 1920 FFP2 in size S14:07
de-factooh nice those look really professional :)14:08
de-factoafaik Dräger is a good company for masks14:09
undefined_bobI tried to buy some in size S since the pandemic started14:10
undefined_bobalways sold out14:10
de-factodo they close airtight around the upper nose (left and right to it)?14:10
de-factoe.g. if you wear glasses, do they fog or stay clear?14:10
undefined_bobvery tight, since you can adjust the tightness with the straps14:10
undefined_bobslightly foggy when its cold. I feel like this is unavoidable to some degree14:11
undefined_bobI tried to many different and expensive masks and with all my glasses got more or less foggy when it was cold outside14:11
undefined_bobbut with those really not that bad14:12
de-factoi think the gaps left and right to the nose on the mask upper "lip" are the main source for filter bypass, i would assume that 95% of FFP2 leak that way14:12
undefined_boband they are tight. they have foam on the inside left and right of the nose. even when I press it down with my fingers, my glasses still get foggy a bit14:13
de-factoyeah those with foam around the nose are much better14:13
undefined_bobI think its not because they leak but because air is just escaping through the fabric around the nose14:14
undefined_bobbecause I think the fabric there is more soft and flexible than the strong and more regid fabric at the front14:14
de-factomost FFP2 i have seen so far do not even touch the surface left and right to the nose and leave very big vible gaps of several millimeters where air would bypass filters14:14
undefined_bobyes, thats useless14:15
de-factopeople basically exhale into their own eyes that way14:15
de-factoand more importantly inhale bypassing the filters that way14:15
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): nCoV: Is wrong injection technique responsible for vaccine side effects? | links to study(s) in comments | 13OCT21 → https://is.gd/JyBvBC14:15
de-factoso imho solving this would increase the protection from FFP2/3 masks by orders of magnitude14:16
undefined_bobI used 3M Aura 9320D before they are really good too14:16
de-factoyep14:16
undefined_bobbut didnt fit as tightly as the Dräger on my face14:16
undefined_bobbecause my face is rather slim14:16
de-factonice, yeah good fit is extremely important14:17
undefined_bobI guess most people doesnt care how their mask fit and/or they lack the basic understanding of how masks even work14:17
undefined_boband those standart china ffp2 masks fitting horrible on most faces14:18
de-factoimho the airtight fit is even more important than the filter class, because with leaks the best filter is useless14:18
undefined_bobbut one china mask 0,5 euro and less and one of those Dräger masks 2,50 euro14:18
undefined_bobyes, but when I use public transportation most people doesnt care about the fit of their mask14:19
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: General: COVID-19: latest updates → https://is.gd/ejWHzQ14:26
MerlinMp[m]<undefined_bob> "I guess most people doesnt..." <- Its obvious when people are required by law - they only care about not to be punished. Im not surprised14:28
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Investigate The Origins Of COVID-19: China To Test Thousands Of Blood Samples From Wuhan, Experts Want To Be Brought To WHO Headquarters → https://is.gd/jIPnjI14:37
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +1048 cases (now 852658), +7 deaths (now 11157), +7397 vaccines (now 5.6 million), +25121 tests (now 11.3 million) since 23 hours ago — Uganda: +56 cases (now 124864), +3823 tests (now 1.7 million) since 23 hours ago14:38
undefined_bobMerlinMp[m]: maybe you're right. But thats just not really smart. I dont understand it14:41
BrainstormNew from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): MenQuadfi, meningococcal group A, C, W-135 and Y conjugate vaccine, Meningitis, Meningococcal, Date of authorisation: 18/11/2020, Revision: 3, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/2qXcLo14:47
BrainstormUpdates for Sweden: +905 cases (now 1.2 million), +135531 tests (now 12.9 million) since 23 hours ago — Laos: +566 cases (now 29964), +2 deaths (now 35), +6427 tests (now 539457) since 23 hours ago — Bhutan: +2 cases (now 2615), +1567 tests (now 1.2 million) since 7 days ago15:03
BrainstormNew from WHO Euro: WHO/Europe launches Western Balkans Digital Health Network: “COVID-19 has been a wake-up call, underlining the need to accelerate the adoption of digital technologies in public health and health care,” said Dr Hans Henri P. Kluge, WHO Regional Director for Europe, at the launch of the WHO/Europe Western Balkans Digital Health Network. → https://is.gd/0YabTv15:09
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Pharmalittle: FDA scientists uncertain about Moderna vaccine boosters; pharma may face stricter rules for supplying meds in the EU → https://is.gd/MNcFBJ15:25
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +37854 cases (now 8.3 million) since 23 hours ago15:40
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): After all #SARSCoV2 has done to us, somehow the idea of mutating it to death has a nice ring to itnature.com/articles/d4158… @naturestatnews.com/2021/10/13/mol… @HoganAlex @statnews → https://is.gd/6pPWTr15:57
BrainstormUpdates for UAE: +126 cases (now 738152), +1 deaths (now 2116), +321515 tests (now 87.9 million) since a day ago — Saudi Arabia: +57 cases (now 547761), +2 deaths (now 8753), +53930 tests (now 29.5 million) since a day ago16:05
BrainstormNew from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Shingrix, herpes zoster vaccine (recombinant, adjuvanted), Herpes Zoster, Date of authorisation: 21/03/2018, Revision: 7, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/YfN8Z216:08
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The J&J vaccine in people with prior Covid induces an enhanced immune response cell.com/cell-host-micr… @cellhostmicrobe @UCT_news pic.twitter.com/MiPSD9dtM9 → https://is.gd/YcjGF816:29
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +7492 cases (now 1.7 million), +85 deaths (now 28351) since 22 hours ago — Qatar: +83 cases (now 237662), +5235 tests (now 2.7 million) since a day ago16:30
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Trevor Bedford (@trvrb): This is not cancer or heart disease, but it's still a substantial public health burden. That said, yearly boosters just like flu vaccine, therapeutics like molnupiravir, improved ventilation and rapid testing can all contribute to reducing this ongoing burden. 17/17 → https://is.gd/4c7lV316:50
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +11296 cases (now 4.3 million), +100 deaths (now 95220) since 23 hours ago — India: +3939 cases (now 34.0 million), +51 deaths (now 451270) since 21 hours ago17:07
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): NHS Covid Pass: Vaccine records access restored after outage → https://is.gd/MVfU8z17:12
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +3801 cases (now 2.1 million), +15 deaths (now 18656) since 23 hours ago17:32
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): Important editorial @nature on scientists being attacked and what needs to be done about itnature.com/articles/d4158…nature.com/articles/d4158…in case anyone thinks it's straightforward and easy to communicate science during the pandemic pic.twitter.com/1DiblDuWwH → https://is.gd/2jsfiD17:33
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Covid-19: Will European tourists return to Southeast Asia? → https://is.gd/aL3rDz17:44
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +2769 cases (now 4.7 million), +37 deaths (now 131421), +278945 tests (now 96.0 million) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +2861 cases (now 8.3 million), +943550 tests (now 316.2 million) since 22 hours ago — Greece: +2312 cases (now 684706), +31 deaths (now 15241), +562589 tests (now 22.6 million) since 23 hours ago18:09
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +7500 cases (now 1.7 million) since 22 hours ago18:34
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: WHO says approval process for Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine ‘still on hold’ → https://is.gd/zPXQsU18:59
BrainstormNew from Ars Technica: Policy: Airlines reject Texas ban on vaccine mandates, say Biden order takes precedence → https://is.gd/hJAUbl19:20
BrainstormNew from Contagion Live: FDA Underwhelmed by Johnson & Johnson Appeal for Booster Shot Approval: The FDA suggested that Johnson & Johnson had not conducted an appropriately thorough test to prove its vaccine merits a six-month booster. → https://is.gd/Fecm3N19:31
BrainstormUpdates for Central African Rep.: +68 cases (now 11469) since 5 days ago19:36
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): A big mix and match vaccine report in 458 participants with Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, then getting another vaccine 12 weeks later: markedly increased neutralizing antibody response by mixing (up to 76-fold) w/ these 9 combinations (Figure)medrxiv.org/content/10.110… (not Delta strain) pic.twitter.com/7v85jT41Sk → https://is.gd/oCFY2W19:41
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): A new systematic data review on #LongCovid from over 250,000 people, 2100 studies indicates a very high frequency and duration of symptoms that can be debilitating@JAMANetworkOpen jamanetwork.com/journals/jaman… pic.twitter.com/sImUmmDhIX → https://is.gd/pHGEPi19:52
BrainstormUpdates for Dominican Rep.: +668 cases (now 367379), +5 deaths (now 4077), +5306 tests (now 2.1 million) since 23 hours ago — Greenland: +8 cases (now 638), +567 tests (now 80110) since a day ago20:01
BrainstormNew from NPR: WHO launches a new group to study the origins of the coronavirus: The World Health Organization advisory group will include scientists from the U.S., China and two dozen other countries and will study various hypotheses, including the possibility of a lab leak. → https://is.gd/Dq8IQJ20:24
Dreddde-facto @de-facto:libera.chat mask wearing where I am in the UK is very poor now20:26
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The big takeaway from this dataset is the response to J&J vaccine with a Moderna or Pfizer booster, taking that vaccine with low levels of neutralizing antibodies to close to parity with the mRNAs(also worked in reverse, J&J boost to mRNA, middle panel) pic.twitter.com/TArBsCl7Dr → https://is.gd/OLJRTu20:34
BrainstormUpdates for Spain: +2758 cases (now 5.0 million), +42 deaths (now 86869) since 2 days ago20:39
BrainstormNew from StatNews: STAT+: Pfizer will use a warranty to refund the cost of a lung cancer drug if it doesn’t work: Pfizer will refund the cost of its lung cancer drug Xalkori to any patient and health plan if the medication fails to work within the first three months — an… → https://is.gd/qKujnq20:45
de-factoDredd, here people are wearing their masks and many places require it, tbh i would throw out people if they would not comply20:50
de-facto.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.10.21264827v121:07
Brainstormde-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: Heterologous SARS-CoV-2 Booster Vaccinations: Preliminary Report | medRxiv21:07
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: gianluca c 🏴‍☠️🇻🇪 #TeamFauci #MaskUp #no papers (@gianlucac1): GBD: protect those at riskThey are the only people who diefor the rest let the virus ripOk lets see the USA which is only Partial GBDKaiser Foundation healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid19-…leading cause of deaths: Covid is 6th below 14y, and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bf1J0F21:17
BrainstormNew from The Atlantic: Flu Season Is a Choice: Perhaps the oddest consolation prize of America’s crushing, protracted battle with the coronavirus is the knowledge that flu season, as we’ve long known it, does not have to exist. → https://is.gd/MEtRtS21:50
BrainstormNew from Virological.org: Latest topics: Oct 2021 EVD case in DRC linked to 2018-2020 Nord Kivu EVD outbreak: The new case of Ebola Virus Disease in Beni is linked to the 2018-2020 Nord Kivu/Ituri EVD outbreak and does not represent a new spillover event. Context On October 08, 2021, a case of Ebola virus disease (EVD) was confirmed in a 29-month-old [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/W1PqlB22:12
imaginarydoes Brainstorm follow michael lin?22:13
sdfgsdfgsconfirmed !! CONFIRMED !!!22:36
sdfgsdfgsyou want to hear this guys22:36
sdfgsdfgsthis news in australia... about a 17 year old girl who almost died in iCU22:37
sdfgsdfgsjust another article spreading fear.......22:38
sdfgsdfgsso this time they have the pictures and vid22:38
sdfgsdfgsand what do I see... my theory is confirmed22:38
sdfgsdfgsshe is fat !!!22:38
sdfgsdfgsand not just "fat" she is like jabba the hutt22:38
sdfgsdfgsso I was right here when I said, very low risk people who die in ICU who are teens and 20/30 year olds they either have previous illnesses or they're absolutely22:39
sdfgsdfgsFAT22:39
sdfgsdfgswe have academic papers mentioning how fat people can NOT breathe22:39
sdfgsdfgsnot being discriminatory here, but the media is extremely manipulative22:41
sdfgsdfgsthey almost never mention any complications if a surprising case dies and is used for fear22:41
BrainstormNew from COVID tweets: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): Er is geen debat of discussie:1 Vaccinatie is veilig en geeft goede bescherming.2 Vaccines geven een boost ook na infectie.3 Infectie immuniteit is erg verschillend.4 Vaccinatie heeft geen ziekte risico!Wees niet pro-virus en pro-COVID-19#vaccineer → https://is.gd/djBFaI22:44
Arsaneritsdfgsdfgs: what is your point?23:06
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 deaths at lowest level in nearly a year, WHO reports → https://is.gd/Xe2sO523:06
sdfgsdfgswhat was yours??23:07
ArsaneritI had none, I didn't participate in any conversanio23:07
ArsaneritI think it's well known and admitted that most young people who have serious complicatiod with covid-19 usually have conditions making it worse.23:07
ArsaneritFat people deserve to survive too.23:08
sdfgsdfgshaven't seen that in any of the articles23:08
sdfgsdfgswhich led me to believe it was highly manipulative23:08
sdfgsdfgs"most young people who have serious complicatiod with covid-19 usually have conditions making it worse."23:08
ArsaneritI don't know what your sources are, but at least in German mainstream media this has been regularly stated.23:08
sdfgsdfgsdann ihr seid glücklich23:08
ArsaneritIt's rare for healthy young people to develop serious complications, which is why the German vaccination commision took a long time before they recommended vaccinations for teenagers.23:09
lastshellyeah obesity is a big issue23:09
ArsaneritThey did finally, because there was then enough data showing they are even more rarely developing complications from vaccinations, but it's not like there is some conspiracy to deny that covid-19 is mostly harmless for healthy young people.23:10
ArsaneritIMHO for teenagers the primary reason to get vaccinated is out of solidarity, to slow down the spread of the virus overall.23:10
sdfgsdfgsI don't disagree with fat people deserving to survive, that's an odd argument - I did my best not to discriminate, this is about media and manipulation23:10
ArsaneritI will readily believe the news in Australia is manipulative.  It's mostly owned by Murdoch, who considers himself to be in the entertainment industry.23:11
ArsaneritI tend not to read commercially owned news.23:11
Arsanerit(or view, or listen to)23:11
ArsaneritI mean, not the outlets owned by for-profit corporations.23:11
ArsaneritGovernment-owned can also be problematic, depending on the government.23:12
ArsaneritI read that DW and taz are the only German news outlets paying attention to Africa when there isn't a war or famine happening.23:12
Arsaneritbut that's another question23:12
tester12who saw death by vaccine or covid-19 virus after two or three dose of vaccination23:16
tester12?23:17
bin_battester12: I don't knoww of any vaccine-related deaths23:36
dTalmaybe someone got hit by a car while riding their bike to the vaccine factory23:37
bin_batand cdc says appx 4100 people have been hospitalized OR died, which is not great (as of june) in the us23:37
tester12bin_bat but all of them was human and if one human was dead is bad, beacause he/she was a human not an animal23:39
bin_batwhat23:39
tester12so this deaths are disaster23:40
bin_batnot comparably23:40
bin_batbut that's why the vaccines can't be treated as a perfect magical solution and then everything can be forgotten23:40
tester12CDC was a business organization in government23:41
tester12please think more23:41
tester12goodlucky23:42
dTal....okay then.23:42
imaginarythey sure opened my eyes23:42
dTalAs a sheeple, I feel awakened.23:43
summonnerwhen I grew up, I only had 2or 3 vaccinations23:44
summonnerkids these days get like 2023:44
bin_batAre you 65 or older?23:44
dTalNo! Are you?23:44
bin_batNope23:44
bin_batI got like a dozen vaccines as a kid, and I've gotten even more as an adult23:44
bin_batI get the dtap every 10 years23:44
summonnerpolio and smallpox and one other23:44
bin_batsmallpox wasnt even given out when i was a kid. new vaccines come, and old vaccines go.23:45
bin_batyou got the vaccines that were available to you23:45
bin_batand kids now get the vaccines that are available to them23:45
summonnerchicken pox and german measles/mumps were things our parents would take us to kids parties and made to play with the sick kid23:45
bin_batit's like saying "when i was a kid we only had 3 channels. now we have 200"23:45
bin_batsummonner: that's because there wasn't a vaccine23:46
summonnernot exactly23:46
bin_batand it was "safer" to get it as a child, despite the potential for serve illness or death, than to get it as an adult because in adults it almost always beceomes very severe23:46
dTalAlso I believe medical opinion now is that was a Bad Idea23:46
summonnerthose viruses have been around for a very long time23:46
bin_batSo you think it's just fine for kids to get sick and potentially die or have lonmg-term health effects?23:47
dTalIt's funny, I remember chickenpox as being mostly an annoyance23:47
bin_batbecause that's what's been done before?23:47
dTalI was covered in itchy little red scabs and then I wasn't23:47
dTalI don't remember feeling awful or anything23:47
summonnerisolating them wasn't a problem, the pharmacological process to reproduce them live took a long time to perfect23:47
bin_batI remember chicken pox being extremely miserable23:48
bin_bathow old were you dTal23:48
dTalidk about 623:48
dTalmaybe younger23:49
dTalnot older23:49
summonnerbin_bat, "so you think" - that's a big jump to even assume I'd be saying anything like that23:49
BrainstormNew from CIDRAP: White House: Mandates are boosting COVID-19 vaccination rates: Stephanie Soucheray | News Reporter | CIDRAP News Oct 13, 2021 More than 3,500 organizations have mandated COVID-19 vaccines for employees. → https://is.gd/g8988l23:49
summonnerhave any of you watched vaxxed or vaxxed #2?23:50
summonnerpretty interesting documentary23:50
summonnereven if you don't believe it, there's sufficient anecdotal evidence that the whole vaccine mandate being pushed needs to be re-examined23:51
bin_batsummonner: it's not much of a leap, i'm just repeating what you said back to you. i'm not even hyperbolizing.23:51
summonnerbut as always, money talks.23:51
summonnerbin_bat, I don't know of anyone who died when I was young23:52
summonnercertainly not from an illness. car crash, yes.23:52
bin_batthat's fortunate for you then23:53
summonnerI'm sure you've all seen the graph? the number of deaths from covid vaccination is over 10 times greater than all the deaths from vaccinations previously?23:54
summonneris that something you've all seen?23:54
summonneri haven't seen any politician calling for a review into that23:55
bin_batthere is no evidence of that at all23:55
bin_batand that doesn't make any sense23:55
bin_batit gives citations for its claims or else it gets the ban again23:57
summonnerFrom the CDC, July 21, 2021: “More than 342 MILLION DOSES of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 26, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,340 reports of death among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.”23:57

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