libera/##covid-19/ Wednesday, 2021-11-24

joergRudd-O[m]: me quoting from a paper, it doesn't make sense to me wehn you tell *ME* I were wrong and you got a better idea you read at some unspecified source00:10
joergre  » [23 Nov 2021 14:24:09] <Rudd-O[m]> <joerg> " » There is no evidence (and..." <- I've seen at least one paper  « ff00:11
LjLwe're going for a "super green pass" now apparently00:13
LjLi predict it's going to be a mess00:13
LjLjust mandate vaccinations like many other vaccines are mandated, end of story00:13
joergRudd-O[m]: maybe tell de-facto or right away tell Derek Lowe  » [23 Nov 2021 11:15:09] <de-facto[m]> .title https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/coronavirus-vaccines-and-cancer Derek Lowes statement about this  «00:14
LjLwe're out of the time period when it would have been too edgy and too new to mandate it00:14
joerghonestly telling :me_  » you're wrong « whn I just quote verbatim a Derek Lowe blogpost that confirms a former statement I came up with on my own. weird00:18
Dreddjoerg: they're muted now so no need to go back into it00:21
Dredd😉00:22
* LjL misses the EU view on offloop00:25
joergooh missed that. Many thanks :-) much appreciated00:31
joergLjL: prolly the right idea, alas just too late now, won't helpus any sooner than February, so when 4th wave tapers off anyway00:35
joergthe increased immunity and reduced R from boosters will help us, alas not enough00:38
joergalso not fast enough on its own00:39
DreddI haven't found my Pfizer booster to have caused too bad side effects00:42
joergfun math exercide though: here a 30% unvaccinated are responsible for a 90% in ICU. Exercise case a: 85% vaccinated (there would be even synergetic other effects kicking in to help) - yeah if only... , case b: 0% are vaccinated... eeew scary.00:45
LjLwe have 90% vaccinated and yet they're pushing through measures to force the rest00:49
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +22982 cases (now 2.5 million) since 19 hours ago01:09
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +43825 cases (now 10.0 million) since 23 hours ago02:30
lastshellupdate from my 2nd day arpm pain is not that bad04:02
lastshellI thing was worst the 2nd shot the booster is ok04:03
de-factoPfizer?04:14
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +43579 cases (now 10.0 million) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +23042 cases (now 2.5 million), +54 deaths (now 19495) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +24422 cases (now 5.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +1809 cases (now 1.8 million) since 12 hours ago04:34
zuttgenera: our restrictions are just "recommendations" technically, but we're back to masks required, remote work, meetups/meetings/events limited to 20, etc basic stuff that we've had going for a long time now05:27
zuttgovt removed mask recommendation some time ago against the recommendation of the health & welfare institute.. soon as they did that people slowly stopped using masks and slowly started forgetting all the other stuff too05:30
zutt%cases Finland05:30
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +12115 cases (now 1.6 million), +36 deaths (now 26705) since a day ago — India: +9283 cases (now 34.5 million), +437 deaths (now 466584) since 23 hours ago05:30
Brainstormzutt: Finland has had 178527 confirmed cases (3.2% of all people) and 1263 deaths (0.7% of cases) as of 17 hours ago. 7.8 million tests were done (2.3% positive). 4.3 million were vaccinated (77.3%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Finland&legacy=no05:30
Brainstormzutt: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Finland, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it.05:30
sdfgsdfgwhat's poppin05:43
sdfgsdfg"Using mass media and political clout to tell the populace that refusers of medical treatment are "to blame or "killing grandma", is tyrannical"05:45
sdfgsdfgwow that's so right05:45
sdfgsdfgbut here comes Nicole with her daily argument05:48
sdfgsdfg1- "Getting the jab is what's considered being responsible, being an adult!"05:48
sdfgsdfgsame as the grandma point, which is on point...... to be honest05:49
sdfgsdfg2- it's safe !05:50
sdfgsdfgwhat can you say if it's safe ? we have an entire industry built on IT security which is also laughable05:50
sdfgsdfgthings are as safe as our eyes can confirm05:51
sdfgsdfgall you see is concerned mothers yelling around instagram posts about the safety of their kids nowadays, nationwide maccine vandate for babies would be a blessing for them lol05:56
sdfgsdfgthere must be a way to jab the babies before birth05:56
sdfgsdfgI didn't know... antibodies are actually passed on to the baby. Hmmm ok06:00
sdfgsdfgthen we need after birth boosters06:01
sdfgsdfgbabyboosters06:01
sdfgsdfgboost the babies after they're born. Ok I'm stopping now..06:01
BrainstormUpdates for Saxony, Germany: +8737 cases (now 439805), +46 deaths (now 10723) since 23 hours ago — Noord-Brabant, Netherlands: +3743 cases (now 381301), +6 deaths (now 3284) since 23 hours ago — Thuringen, Germany: +3237 cases (now 193419), +22 deaths (now 4847) since 23 hours ago — Brandenburg, Germany: +3221 cases (now 161072), +11 deaths (now 4052) since 23 hours ago06:32
finely[m]COVAX has been a disaster.07:23
finely[m]https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/pandemic-response-poorly-coordinated-former-nz-pm-helen-clark/1364363607:23
DreddCOVAX is the Gate's Foundation pushed scheme to give cheaper covid medicines to countries that can't afford them and milk all the rest for every dollar they can get?07:32
BrainstormUpdates for Czechia: +25949 cases (now 2.0 million), +104 deaths (now 32408) since a day ago07:35
finely[m]Yes, COVAX was the grift by big pharma (help by the gates foundation) to stop COVID vaccine patents from being declared public domain and mandatory sharing of vaccine manufacturing knowledge to the third world.07:45
finely[m]Turns out even with these obstructions, enough vaccines were produced to cover the entire world, but COVAX ended giving away a ton of vaccines that couldn't be used before they expired.07:45
DreddIMO covid patents should have been waived07:48
joergfinely[m]: repeating it a zillionth time - waving pharma patents is of absolutely no use for corona vaccines, the patent letters are already public and nobody could stop the poor countries simply pirating them if they decided to do so. Sharing knowhow is another topic which is like... I'm asking NASA for the complete construction plans of their spaceships so I could finally build my own. Actually BioNTech for example DOES share knowhow to whomever asks for,09:29
joergby forming joint ventures, transferring personal with knowhow to set up and ramp up factories etc. The "mimimi you got patents which we want you to lose" wining is political bullshit by nitwits with no real clue of the problems involved09:29
joergKenia (iirc) just had to discard vaccines because they expired in their shelf, they don't have the infra to *distribute* them to their people. And african official now claim money from first world to help with that. Up to anybody's own judgement if that's still "the rich western countries don't share the knowhow"09:34
joerganyway in short: the patents waiving is a massive red herring topic09:37
joerghuge complete populistic misconception about patents: they are not a secret, they are public by definition since you have to tell poeple about what is patented, in public patent letters09:41
joergsorry, patent specification is the name09:43
aradeshRudd-O[m]: (regarding the covid conspiracy stuff from yesterday) yes more peolpe die from other things, but it doesn't mean that it isn't a serious serious problem when suddenly lots of people get ill with a new thing and fill up your hospitals10:05
finely[m]<joerg> "finely: repeating it a zillionth..." <- WIPO would destroy any economy that tried. They probably wouldnt have to though - all modern free trade deals contain investor dispute mechanic that allow corporation to sue governments into the stone age.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/87a2fd7e4c6e481f3d98cf77fb0c5ef2f0fc240c)10:45
sdfgsdfgand is it better to have people die from unknown reasons decades down the line10:47
sdfgsdfgor various terminal illnesses10:47
finely[m]Good on biontech for info sharing. I wonder if they would still be doing that if they hadn't had such trouble scaling up? Makes sense to get the widest possible pool of people involved to solve the difficulties of mass production. Almost like the proposed WHO knowledge sharing intititive that COVAX killed before it could start.10:49
sdfgsdfg5-10 year trials cover those, which is the difference between emergency use grant and the normal grant10:49
sdfgsdfgif we can somehow let go of most of the people in half a generation's time, we'll save the planet and our species10:50
sdfgsdfgyou mention sacrifices10:50
sdfgsdfghave a spoonful of higher intelligence lol10:50
sdfgsdfgof the overlords... ofc. Not me, random observer here10:51
Bridgestorm❗ 地震预警 / EARTHQUAKE WARNING for Taiwan (just felt near Pizitou?) — Follow for updates (www.kmoni.bosai.go.jp)10:56
-Bridgestorm- 🏠 地震! Earthquake! 5.5 M tremor, registered by cocodayo_dev,yurekuru, with 7 reports, 1 early, occurred 3 minutes ago (09:55:11 UTC), with a gibbous moon, Hualien City, Taiwan (23.75, 122.0) ± 9 km, ↓10 km likely felt 200 km away (in 花蓮市, 吉安鄉, 新城鄉, 壽豐鄉, 秀林鄉…) by 277800 people with maximum intensity Shindo 3 → https://twitter.com/yurekuru/status/1463446289853861888 (Twitter)10:58
finely[m]Oh, modern is not actually sharing:11:05
finely[m]"Moderna has thus far refused to participate in the WHO's effort"11:05
finely[m]https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/10/07/critics-warn-moderna-plan-covid-vaccine-factory-africa-pr-gimmick11:05
finely[m]I think you are arguing in bad faith.11:05
undefined_bobsdfgsdfg: thats just not how those vaccines work. Its well known that this 'after x years you get sick from the vaccine' is just nonesense and not scientifically based11:11
BrainstormUpdates for Poland: +28431 cases (now 3.4 million), +460 deaths (now 81688) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +43160 cases (now 10.0 million) since 18 hours ago11:31
sdfgsdfgundefined_bob I'd quote this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwLACpzGnFw11:45
sdfgsdfgsums it up about how we progressed with aristotle galileo and newton, each one making the previous and everyone who believed them look like a b****11:48
undefined_bobsdfgsdfg: lol. yeah thats still not how it work. And no, you dont have secret insider knowledge. And no you are not special11:50
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +67590 cases (now 5.5 million) since 21 hours ago12:33
de-factojoerg, do you know of a good upstream for covid testing data per federal state in germany?13:16
de-facto"best" i found so far is https://ars.rki.de/Content/COVID19/Reports.aspx13:17
joergalas not13:17
BrainstormUpdates for Nepal: +305 cases (now 820004), +4 deaths (now 11513), +7590 tests (now 4.6 million) since a day ago13:42
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +8588 cases (now 970753) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +68230 cases (now 5.5 million) since 22 hours ago14:38
lastshellHey guys quick question my mom also got the covid booster but she likes to take omega-3 and ginko biloba for now she stop those but when she can take back again those supplements after the booster ?15:20
ottavioHas anybody had side effects from the booster jab?16:29
Brainstormottavio: At 2021-09-09 11:47:11 UTC, de-facto told you: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(21)00248-6/fulltext "Clinical performance evaluation of SARS-CoV-2 rapid antigen testing in point of care usage in comparison to RT-qPCR - EBioMedicine"16:29
lastshellottavio I had arm pain but less than the first 2 shots (all 3 pfizer)16:32
ottavioI had 2 AZ shots. The 1st was a nightmare, the 2nd absolutely nothing.16:33
lastshellI have a cousin who got 2 AZ he mentioned something similar16:34
lastshellnot sure about the 2 AZ16:34
lastshellyou got fiber ?16:34
ottaviofiber ... im what context?16:42
lastshellfor the vaccine ?16:42
lastshell*fever16:43
ottavioi had fever 12 hours after my 1st AZ and it lasted 3 days but nothing after the 2nd16:44
lastshellgot it16:46
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +23795 cases (now 2.6 million), +51 deaths (now 19545) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +2193 cases (now 1.8 million), +32 deaths (now 29615) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +734 cases (now 10.0 million) since 21 hours ago17:32
joergAZ (flu-like shake and chills after 8h) + BNT (flu-like shake and chills after 6h) + BNT ... I'll tell you if after more than 6h any reactions kick in17:57
joergboth so far lasted 12h17:57
joergalready feeling a lil chill after three+6h17:58
joerglastshell: who told your mom to stop ginkgo and fats? I never heard of any interference with vaccination from both18:02
joergI just got the same recommendation as usual today: 2days no sports, no alcohol18:02
lastshellthey asked if we took some blood thiner18:03
lastshellgingko is a natural blood thiner I thing18:03
joergso I think even if there was a reason to stopginkgo and omega-3, you could probably continue it after 3 days18:03
joergoooh, that's possible, yeah18:04
lastshellok today I did some exercise18:04
lastshellbut I got the jab in morning monday18:04
lastshelljust some resistance bands18:04
joergI guess that's safe18:06
lastshelland some squats18:06
lastshellbut i checked my hart nothing above 13018:07
lastshelljust 12418:07
lastshellI'm able to raise avobe 165 but no this 2 weeks18:08
lastshelljsut light exercise18:08
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +12450 cases (now 5.0 million), +85 deaths (now 133415) since 23 hours ago18:34
squirrelhi, any idea what "population" means in table 2 here? https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland18:45
squirrelfor "Deaths 21 days or more after first dose", i assumed it means all people who ever had one dose but the numbers are shrinking with time18:47
squirrelalso the numbers don't add to the whole population18:47
BrainstormUpdates for Bangladesh: +312 cases (now 1.6 million), +3 deaths (now 27961), +21002 tests (now 10.8 million) since a day ago19:05
LjLsquirrel, at a glance, i would suspect it means "... but before the second dose"19:05
LjLhaven't tried adding them up (yet)19:06
LjLthe total as of 24 september ends up at 39149565 for me19:09
LjL%wa population of england over 10 year old19:09
BrainstormLjL, Wolfram|Alpha (England, United Kingdom | population/(10 years)): Result: 5.527 million people per year (2016 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+england+over+10+year+old19:09
LjLas usual, Wolfram understanding things properly19:10
LjL%wa population of england19:10
BrainstormLjL, Wolfram|Alpha (England, United Kingdom | population): Result: 55.27 million people (91% of total for United Kingdom) (2016 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+england19:10
LjLcan there be 16 million children under 10? hmm19:10
LjLaccording to https://www.statista.com/statistics/281208/population-of-the-england-by-age-group/ it's more like 6.5m19:11
LjLbut, i've heard other people complain that the "population of england" is... highly variable depending who you ask, the census having happened a few years ago19:12
lastshellLjL you know if is safe to consume ginkgo biloba after the booster ?19:22
LjLlastshell, i saw your discussion, honestly i've no idea, but would it be a big deal to avoid it for a few days?19:24
lastshellI guess will be fine19:26
lastshellyeah mom will avoid from some days thank you LjL19:26
squirrelLjL: hm that makes sense, thanks.19:27
squirreli wonder if that table says anything significant about dying after vaccines19:28
LjLi will somewhat confidently say "no"19:30
LjLthere's not enough information19:30
LjLcause of death is not specified, and if you compare among different time periods, the virus was also behaving differently19:30
LjLif you compare the same days, then you will unsurprisingly find vaccinated people die at lower rates than unvaccinated ones19:31
LjLit might be interesting to look at age ranges close to 10, but that one goes 10-59 instead, so that's moot as well19:31
squirrelat a glance it seems that mortality during 21 days of the 2nd does is significantly and consistently lower than that within 21 of the first dose. this i find unexpected19:32
squirrelbetween 1st vaccine and unvaccinated, there seems to be a lot of confidence range overlap19:33
LjLthere is no "within 21 days of the 2nd dose"19:35
LjLthere is "within 21 days of first", "after 21 days of first", and then "after second"19:35
squirrelwell, if there were, it would be showing even smaller numbers wouldn't it19:35
LjLanyway, if i look at the most recent snapshot, i don't see much CI overlap19:37
LjL0.30.60.10.219:37
LjL5.412.80.81.419:37
LjL719.92.33.419:37
LjL2758.68.711.319:37
LjL(Lower and upper confidence first for unvaccinated, then for fully vaccinated)19:37
LjLthey never overlap19:37
LjLi don't know which number you mean by "between 1st vaccine"19:38
LjLduring the first 21 days after the first dose, you have *no* protection19:39
LjLand you may actually have a dip in protection (some studies found that), i think likely because people don't know they have no protection, they think "they're vaccinated", and take some more risks19:39
squirrelnever heard of the no protection within 21 days19:41
squirrelalso there's no number "2758" anywhere?19:41
squirrelanyway, i don't know enough to make use of this data to persuade someone that vaccines are relatively safe19:43
squirrelespecially someone who knows several people who died within days of getting a vaccine19:43
LjLyou never heard of it? it's right there in the graphs published on the phase 3 papers of the vaccines19:44
LjLyou cannot spot any difference within 14 days, and almost none within 2119:44
LjLantibodies take time to form (which is kind of the entire point of forming them in advance with a vaccine)19:44
LjLand what is about 2758? O.o19:45
LjLthat's 27 *and* 58.619:45
squirrelhum, my client glued them all together19:45
LjLmaybe i used a nonstandard space without realizing19:47
LjLmaybe this is better19:47
LjL0.30.60.10.219:47
LjL5.412.80.81.419:47
LjL719.92.33.419:47
LjL2758.68.711.319:47
LjLi copypasted from the spreadsheet19:48
LjLbut now after adding some empty cells19:48
squirrelbut yeah never heard of vaccines being ineffective for so long. i assumed a few days19:49
squirreli pasted the numbers into a text editor and it works there19:50
squirrelanyway, there's no overlap if looking at fully vaccinated but i would be assuming that having two doses is no more dangerous than having one?19:50
squirreloh well this numbers are useless19:51
LjLsquirrel, here the data about Pfizer https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 on page 12 or 2614 depending how you count, admittedly the graph shows a divergence after about 14 days, not 21, but other vaccines may be different19:51
LjLsquirrel, actually there are more side effects found after the 2nd dose generally with mRNA vaccines19:51
LjLthe third is generally similar to the second19:52
LjL(also that graph is from before Delta so i would suspect that there may be no difference found after a few more days with Delta)19:52
lastshellwith the booster you become more sarcastic :P20:14
lastshelljust kidding all same20:14
BrainstormUpdates for Spain: +8527 cases (now 5.1 million), +38 deaths (now 87904) since 23 hours ago20:32
LjL<CarlSagan> [Ars Technica - Science] Pandemic skyrockets in Europe; COVID is the No. 1 cause of death https://arstechnica.com/?p=1815680 2021-11-24T17:51:3921:16
de-facto.title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(2100674-5/fulltext21:34
Brainstormde-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Effectiveness of an inactivated virus-based SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, BBV152, in India: a test-negative, case-control study - The Lancet Infectious Diseases21:34
de-facto.titel https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02000-6/fulltext21:35
de-facto.title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02000-6/fulltext21:35
Brainstormde-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Efficacy, safety, and lot-to-lot immunogenicity of an inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine (BBV152): interim results of a randomised, double-blind, controlled, phase 3 trial - The Lancet21:35
ArsaneritWhy is Europe now apparently the worst affected region?22:04
de-factofreedom day experiment?22:07
ArsaneritIn Russia?22:08
ArsaneritRussia seems to be worst affected now22:08
Arsaneritdeath rates in Russia have been very high already since July http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom;Russia;France;Germany;Italy;Netherlands;Austria&byPopulation=yes&logScale=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&legacy=no22:08
Arsaneritmore than 3× higher than the ones in Germany or UK are right now22:09
de-factorussia got many with distrust in vaccinations22:09
de-factoalso they had it colder earlier22:10
ublxgetting cold in russia now. everyone spending more time indoors?22:10
de-factoit seems incidences rise from northeast to southwest?22:10
ublxsomething like that22:11
de-factomaybe also some mutations in Delta we did not put attention to? what if there is a mutation in the other regions (e.g. NSP not S-protein)22:11
ublxnot yet very apparent in france,spain,portugal22:11
Arsaneritdeaths in Russia were already really high even in July, when cases and death rates in Germany and France were very low22:12
ArsaneritIn July death rates in Russia were 20 × higher than in Germany22:12
ArsaneritAnd why are cases in Ireland so much much higher than in Sweden?  Sweden doesn't even have mask mandates.22:13
ArsaneritSwedish vaccination rates are no better than Germany and worse than UK or Ireland, and Sweden doesn't have a lot of restrictions, yet their rates remain low.22:14
ublxhuge reservoirs of immunity and/or people risk-balancing against Sweden's lack of restrictions?22:16
ArsaneritI thought maybe Swedish are naturally more introverted than Irish ("pub-goers"), but I don't know if that explains the differences.22:17
ublxmaybe their testing regime/uptake is lacking22:18
Arsaneritbut reported death rates are low too22:20
ublxdon't know. don't recall seeing anyone Swedish in here either22:23
BrainstormUpdates for India: +7876 cases (now 34.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +2257 cases (now 1.8 million), +24 deaths (now 29621) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +23785 cases (now 2.6 million) since 21 hours ago22:43
aradeshhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10237945/England-suffer-35-000-Covid-hospitalisations-caught-virus-study-suggests.html23:11
aradeshprobably means no christmas lockdown in the UK then23:11
de-facto.title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.10.21266166v1.full-text23:37
Brainstormde-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: Unexposed populations and potential COVID-19 burden in European countries | medRxiv23:37
squirrelLjL: sorry disconnected. re: pfizer data; i'm not sure if something like this can persuade an antivax. i was hoping to get something from "all deaths following vaccinations" as covid itself is measured in "all deaths following infection"23:38
LjLboth of them are 100% without a timeframe23:40
squirrelnot sure how else to get into their mind23:40
squirrel"without a timframe"?23:41
LjLwhat is "following"? everybody dies eventually23:41
LjLCOVID is measured as "all deaths while positive", if anything23:41
squirrelwell 21 days, or 28 days as per bbc23:41
dTalwhy did I read the comments on that Daily Fail article23:42
dTal"Covid is the new bogus paradigm to replace climate change." - 19 upvotes, 0 downvotes23:42
squirrelin uk it's "all deaths within 28 days of a positive covid test"23:43
LjLsquirrel, yeah it can be that, bit of a shortcut23:43
LjLwhich goes both ways by the way23:43
squirrelthat's what you get on bbc radio 4 6 o'clock news23:43
LjL"skeptical" people say it inflates the deaths because people who die of other causes also get included23:43
LjLbut guess what, there's also a lot of people who die in ICU after months of struggling with COVID23:44
LjLmeaning longer than 28 days23:44
squirreli think this is a good statistic but it's only comparable with itself23:45
LjLanyway, i don't know off hand where to find the exact info you stated, probably because in most ways that matter it's not very meaningful. i can sort of see why to an anti-vax it could be a meaningful comparison, for their worries, but in 21 days or so you basically don't get to experience the vaccine efficacy, so most things aren't measured in that timeframe23:45
lastshellonly 18% have the booster in US23:55
lastshellI try to find the source of this claim23:55
LjL8% have had it in Italy23:56
LjLnot sure "only" is warranted23:56
squirrelwait, im stupid23:57
squirrelfor my purposes it's actually great that in 21 days you don't feel the vaccine effect23:57
squirrelsince vaccine efficacy is not what they are worried about but dying from it23:58
squirreli need more sleep23:58

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