| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +2044 cases (now 34.5 million) since 18 hours ago | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| de-facto | i think its called the "Nu-Variant" | 00:24 |
| de-facto | https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1464005676842184705 | 00:24 |
| de-facto | .title | 00:24 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From twitter.com: Bloom Lab (@jbloom_lab): "Here's how mutations in #SARSCoV2 Nu variant (B.1.1.529) will affect polyclonal and monoclonal antibodies targeting RBD. These assessments based on deep-mutational scanning experiments; underlying data can be explored interactively at https://jbloomlab.github.io/SARS2_RBD_Ab_escape_maps/ (1/n)" | nitter | 00:24 |
| de-facto | does not look good :((( | 00:25 |
| de-facto | quite likely may have increased evasive capabilities | 00:25 |
| LjL | it's not been named yet, unless the WHO had that meeting while i was looking at black friday | 00:26 |
| LjL | but presumably it'll be named that | 00:26 |
| LjL | oh erm | 00:27 |
| LjL | i just realized Brainstorm isn't posting news | 00:27 |
| LjL | what an apt time to mess up the config | 00:27 |
| lastshell | how bad is this ? https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIR.0000000000001051 | 00:31 |
| LjL | how bad is what? | 00:35 |
| LjL | that is an expression of concern that the article that says "mrna bad thing" is itself bad | 00:36 |
| LjL | https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/CIR.0000000000001051 | 00:36 |
| lastshell | Expression of Concern: Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning | 00:36 |
| LjL | meanwhile on Nature | 00:36 |
| LjL | %title https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03552-w | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.nature.com: Heavily mutated coronavirus variant puts scientists on alert | 00:36 |
| LjL | this is bad | 00:36 |
| LjL | lastshell, well that's not the article, it's an expression of concern about the article | 00:36 |
| lastshell | I guess there is no option for now | 00:36 |
| LjL | it's people saying "this article is bad" | 00:36 |
| LjL | read the PDF | 00:36 |
| LjL | Soon after publication of the above abstract in Circulation, it was brought to the American Heart Association Committee on Scientific Sessions Program’s attention that there are potential errors in the abstract. Specifically, there are several typographical errors, there is no data in the abstract regarding myocardial T-cell infiltration, there are no statistical analyses for significance provided, and the author is not clear that only anecdotal data was used. | 00:37 |
| lastshell | ok | 00:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +22220 cases (now 2.6 million), +61 deaths (now 19607) since 23 hours ago | 00:38 |
| LjL | and the actual article... i only see an abstract anyway? https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712 | 00:38 |
| de-facto | lastshell, there are doubts about that single author of a conference abstract, i would be very careful with what he writes there | 00:46 |
| LjL | “It’s really important that there are no knee-jerk responses here, especially with relation to South Africa,” Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO’s emergencies program, said. | 00:52 |
| LjL | de-facto, ↑ what do you think, that sounds like "countries shouldn't close their doors because that wouldn't be nice" | 00:52 |
| LjL | (from https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/25/who-calls-special-meeting-to-discuss-new-covid-variant-from-south-africa-with-large-number-of-mutations.html ) | 00:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): I'm declaring sars cov-2 and Nu Endemic common cold-body coronaviruses twitter.com/x2IndSpeculato… → https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1464018104279781382 | 00:56 |
| LjL | wut | 00:57 |
| -Bridgestorm- 🏠 भूकंप! ငလျင်! Землятрус! Earthquake! 5.9 Mb tremor, registered by HKOEARTHQUAKE5E,alomax, with 25 reports, 8 early, occurred 12 minutes ago (23:45:40 UTC), during twilight, North Vanlaiphai, India (23.03, 93.3) ± 88 km, ↓12 km likely felt 640 km away (in Aizawl…) by 739000 people — Webcams: https://www.windy.com/webcams/1589974236 https://www.windy.com/webcams/1604226906 (Twitter) | 00:57 | |
| LjL | i'm afraid, Leonardi, you've just made your way from the main channel to ##covid-ticker :P | 00:58 |
| de-facto | well being political correct and not closing down traveling, doesnt that sound familiar? | 01:04 |
| de-facto | oh wait thats how it all started two years ago | 01:04 |
| sdasd | :° | 01:05 |
| squirrel | hello | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | squirrel: At 2021-11-25 01:26:11 UTC, LjL told you: also as to why "impossible" to enforce green pass on buses and trams... the way they're operated here, it's just not feasible to check everyone's pass. so only spot checks. but that means 1) as a vaccinated person, i can (though likely won't) get fined for forgetting my green pass, but 2) unvaccinated people will be able to travel scot-free most of the time, "at worst" if they want to have a | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | squirrel: At 2021-11-25 01:24:52 UTC, LjL told you: the thing with anti-vax people and others like that that are not simply a bit "skeptical" or "worried", but adamant about it, every bar you manage to pass they'll put a higher bar. no data are reliable. | 01:06 |
| squirrel | hum, i wonder if in those countries that use digital bus passes they are linking bus passes to vaccination status | 01:07 |
| de-facto | we just got a message that non-immunized students are not allowed to participate in presence anymore | 01:08 |
| squirrel | ...i've got another question from an antivax person | 01:08 |
| squirrel | it's a good one i think | 01:08 |
| LjL | squirrel, not here, the privacy authority wouldn't allow that, but from 6 December a green pass will be required to travel on buses | 01:08 |
| squirrel | LjL: mind asking where you at? | 01:09 |
| LjL | sure, italy | 01:09 |
| squirrel | ah. i think something like this would be possible in latvia. they even barred unvaccinated mps from voting | 01:09 |
| de-facto | i think this is a mistake, fully vaccinated are allowed to freely travel without testing or quarantine or anything, they are allowed to party etc pp | 01:09 |
| squirrel | a pretty crazy move | 01:09 |
| de-facto | instead they should enforce mandatory testing and quarantine for everyone | 01:10 |
| LjL | de-facto, https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r29nbd/new_covid19_variant_described_as_worst_one_yet/hm3gtd4/?context=3 | 01:10 |
| LjL | squirrel, that does sound a bit unconstitutional, although i don't know your constitution... | 01:10 |
| squirrel | yeah :s | 01:10 |
| de-facto | basically they allow for free movement of a special selection of mutants, those that acquired the ability to replicate in fully vaccinated | 01:11 |
| de-facto | not sure why someone would do such a thiung | 01:11 |
| LjL | and yet, two of these bad variants arose in South Africa, where barely 25% of the population is vaccinated | 01:11 |
| LjL | so yes, i see your point, but vaccine-evasive mutants seem to arise in places where that's now how they are selected | 01:11 |
| squirrel | anyway, the antivax question. according to BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57888429, the reason for vaccinating children is, “It is hoped the measure will help prevent further disruption to their education. Prof Whitty said absence from school "has been extraordinarily difficult for children" during the pandemic, particularly in deprived areas.” | 01:12 |
| squirrel | so i'm being told that this reasoning is kind bull. most children get sick only mildly and get absent from school for a few days only | 01:13 |
| squirrel | so what exactly is "extraordinarly difficult" here? | 01:13 |
| de-facto | not being able to participate in presence in school due to outbreaks of COVID in that age group? | 01:16 |
| LjL | in most places with a tiny bit of sanity, a positive kid means the class has to all quarantine or at least go remote | 01:17 |
| LjL | sure, if you are the sort of anti-vax who thinks the virus is just not a big deal, even though we don't know how many children will get long-COVID type things, you could say "just don't quarantine classes, pretend it didn't happen" | 01:17 |
| LjL | i would disagree with that, strongly... but i disagree strongly with most things anti-vax people say | 01:18 |
| de-facto | also there is the Paediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome that is quite nasty making children ending up in intense care | 01:18 |
| squirrel | is remote studying really that hard? | 01:19 |
| LjL | de-facto, https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r25s5t/covid_new_heavily_mutated_variant_b11529_in_south/hm2wg7v/ not sure what the "huge restrictions" are though, it doesn't help that Brainstorm wasn't posting stuff | 01:19 |
| de-facto | .title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome_in_children | 01:19 |
| squirrel | i mean most articles i've been seeing is about how everyone likes remote work/studying | 01:20 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From en.wikipedia.org: Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children - Wikipedia | 01:20 |
| LjL | squirrel, you can't conflate work with studying | 01:20 |
| LjL | also the fact that people "like" it doesn't mean it's good for them in the long term | 01:20 |
| LjL | and we're also talking about small children here. yes, it's bad if they don't have direct contact with their teachers and other kids | 01:20 |
| LjL | people don't immediately understand abstraction and "yeah the other people are far away but i should behave the same" | 01:21 |
| LjL | not even as adults, often, but less so when they're 6 | 01:21 |
| de-facto | this is a very important step in their development, not only do they learn languages but also their brain develops all the social skills etc | 01:21 |
| de-facto | something that lacks severely in their development if they only are able to participate on an iPad alone in their room at home | 01:22 |
| de-facto | but in our societies free touristic traveling is more important than being able to leave open schools for our future generations | 01:22 |
| squirrel | of course, but while this explain how remote studying can be somewhat hard for some children, you need more that just that to say "extraordinarly difficult" | 01:23 |
| LjL | i have no difficulty believing it's extraordinarily difficult (or at least harmful) in the long term, and i'd say they've already done it more than enough | 01:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The World Health Organization (WHO) will hold a special meeting amid concerns about a new COVID-19 variant detected in South Africa → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2a1gf/the_world_health_organization_who_will_hold_a/ | 01:25 |
| LjL | i'll be fully prepared to say "let them do it again" if new variants warrant that | 01:25 |
| de-facto | its not somewhat hard for some children, its a fundamental problem that affects the whole generation if schools have to be closed down again and again | 01:25 |
| LjL | but i think we should have made this stop earlier and better instead | 01:25 |
| squirrel | how often students actually miss classes? | 01:25 |
| de-facto | children can not speak for themselves, they need emphatic advocates in the society that can put emphasis on their interests and those would be to stay healthy and be able to develop as normal as possible (in terms of social skills etc) | 01:27 |
| de-facto | later students can study at home much easier because they already developed their fundamental social and communication skills etc | 01:28 |
| LjL | squirrel, i don't know, but as anecdotes, someone i know in the US sent their children to school and only a couple of days later they were quarantined (because someone else was positive) | 01:28 |
| LjL | so right about immediately as the school year began | 01:29 |
| de-facto | so i think it makes sense to put into consideration the whole situation for children, compare the two scenarios where they are vaccinated with the one where they get infected in all of their aspects | 01:29 |
| LjL | going from memory, something that has been cited on TV a couple of days ago, 25% of the cases from the past couple of weeks in Italy are among children. well, my memory fails because i forget the age ranges, but mostly the unvaccinated ages (below 12) | 01:30 |
| LjL | most of those may be "mild", but i don't think that's a very good excuse: they're many, and some are not mild. | 01:30 |
| de-facto | they will acquire immunity, one way or the other | 01:30 |
| de-facto | in my opinion its reckless to let it burn through our children and exposing them without providing them any protection by vaccination | 01:31 |
| de-facto | its them that have to loose the most, in lifetime, development and health | 01:33 |
| squirrel | de-facto: you really have to consider the antivax viewpoint here because it's i think reasonable maybe. all time time we are getting reports how covid is less dangerous for kinds than thought, how schools are in fact not covid hotbeds, etc etc. schools used to be all remote and now they are not. all that seems like there's no crisis around education, generally speaking. and now the jabs are starting to get recommended for kids. and instead of saying that | 01:33 |
| squirrel | risks outweigh gains, or that the main idea is to stop spread of the virus, they say that they need to keep kids in schools. why now? | 01:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: mex1pepsi (@james1chas3): @fitterhappierAJ It's a pandemic of the unNu'd → https://twitter.com/james1chas3/status/1464027302568804353 | 01:34 |
| squirrel | a "maybe" answer doesn't cut it here | 01:34 |
| LjL | i don't necessarily think we "really have to consider" a bunch of wrong assertions | 01:34 |
| squirrel | BBC reports are wrong assertions | 01:35 |
| squirrel | ? | 01:35 |
| LjL | and "why now" is because it's unacceptable to keep them out of school *after* they've already suffered from that so much, just because of a whim | 01:35 |
| LjL | don't be like that | 01:35 |
| LjL | if you have "BBC reports" making specific assertions, show them | 01:35 |
| LjL | you can't just wrap a bunch of my-friend-said claims into a "BBC reports" blanket | 01:36 |
| squirrel | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58410584 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58418767 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57766717 | 01:36 |
| -Bridgestorm- 🏠 भूकंप! ငလျင်! Землятрус! Earthquake! 6.0 Mww tremor, registered by US,quakenotices, occurred 51 minutes ago (23:45:40 UTC), during twilight, Hakha, Myanmar (22.79, 93.5) ± 1 km, ↓22 km likely felt 260 km away (in ကလေး, Siaha…) by 405000 people → https://t.co/n06hXNXHjT (earthquake.usgs.gov) | 01:37 | |
| squirrel | it may appear that i am "asking for my friend" but i am indeed asking for my friend | 01:37 |
| LjL | okay, i can't really argue the merits of those claims without digging through studies, so i'll take them at face value and i think there are things to be said anyway: | 01:38 |
| LjL | "The research suggests somewhere between 2% and 14% still had symptoms caused by Covid 15 weeks later. The team said it was important those with persistent symptoms, which included headaches, tiredness and breathing difficulties, received support." | 01:38 |
| LjL | that's a large interval. 2% would be somewhat reassuring, 14% would be less than adults, but still concerning, especially if things like "breathing difficulties" were prevalent (!) | 01:38 |
| de-facto | In Germany right now we have the most infections in school kids | 01:39 |
| LjL | one of the study authors seems to also conclude in the article | 01:40 |
| LjL | Of all the children in the study, 40% reported feeling sad, worried or unhappy. | 01:40 |
| LjL | And the researchers said it was clear the pandemic had had a damaging effect on young people because of: | 01:40 |
| LjL | the closure of schools | 01:40 |
| LjL | not seeing their friends | 01:40 |
| LjL | concern about the risk from the virus | 01:40 |
| LjL | This showed how important it was to get "back to normal" and have schools open, Dr Whittaker added. | 01:40 |
| LjL | so that directly argues against keeping schools closed | 01:40 |
| squirrel | sigh | 01:40 |
| LjL | i mean it's the same research | 01:41 |
| squirrel | it's not like anyone is saying that kids are better of learning from home | 01:41 |
| LjL | it's based on the same surveys | 01:41 |
| de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/zV1pI08 https://i.imgur.com/BhZl84q.png https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Wochenbericht/Wochenbericht_2021-11-25.pdf?__blob=publicationFile | 01:41 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID Germany: Incidence trend per age group - Album on Imgur | 01:41 |
| LjL | if the researchers conclude the long COVID is "nowhere near scale feared", which is a qualitative judgment, then you also need to take the qualitative judgment "children need to return to school because it's affecting them emotionally a lot" into the same account | 01:41 |
| LjL | i skipped: | 01:42 |
| LjL | Most likely to report persistent symptoms were older girls who already had poorer physical and mental health. | 01:42 |
| LjL | Those struggling emotionally and mentally could be more attuned to even minor physical illnesses, the researchers said, and a positive coronavirus test could help trigger that. | 01:42 |
| LjL | so, you're having children who get sick with long-term stuff, and they may be more "attuned" to those symptoms if they're sad and unhappy | 01:42 |
| LjL | then, you make them even more sad and unhappy by not letting them go to school | 01:42 |
| de-facto | age groups 10-14 weekly incidence of almost 1000/100k in Germany and increasing | 01:42 |
| de-facto | thats reall ybad | 01:42 |
| LjL | i don't know how much i believe the symptoms are there because you're "attuned" to them - if anything, in my opinion, it just reflects how likely people are to respond to the survey in negative terms just in general | 01:43 |
| de-facto | also ages 5-9 | 01:43 |
| squirrel | we are not having a conversation here | 01:43 |
| LjL | but that's not what those researchers say | 01:43 |
| squirrel | i say things and you say things but these things do not form a conversation | 01:43 |
| LjL | okay, then i'll stop saying things about your things | 01:43 |
| squirrel | i think we can stop | 01:43 |
| LjL | rest assured that this new variant will put all these doubts to rest anyway | 01:44 |
| squirrel | personally i'm ready to die from covid | 01:44 |
| LjL | that's the spirit | 01:44 |
| squirrel | kinda regreeting getting the jabs now | 01:45 |
| de-facto | why would you regret taking an effective protection? | 01:45 |
| squirrel | it makes me less likely to die | 01:46 |
| de-facto | yes by almost an order of magnitude | 01:46 |
| squirrel | yes | 01:46 |
| LjL | there are much less painful ways to die, unless you particularly like pain | 01:47 |
| de-facto | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FD3SPTDXIAwk5xp?format=png&name=large | 01:47 |
| de-facto | (stolen from tweet https://twitter.com/LukaMesin/status/1458480174790553607 ) | 01:47 |
| squirrel | i've always though, if one was to die one should die hard | 01:47 |
| de-facto | suffocating on the own fluids in the lung does sound horrible to me | 01:48 |
| de-facto | so looking at that graph there it seems there is a very clear anti-correlation between vaccination rate and death rate: countries with high vaccination rate do have a very low death rate | 01:50 |
| de-facto | yet infections also happen in vaccinated, yet they seem to be much milder since much less are having fatal outcome | 01:51 |
| de-facto | so that pretty much summarizes our current problem in Europe: vaccinations work quite well in preventing hospitalization and death, but people increasing their contact rates due to being less careful also increases case numbers since infections do still happen in the upper respiratory airways, yet fortunately are prevented to descent deep into the lungs where they would cause severe progressions | 01:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): Given Nu and Delta's perfectly-timed Krampus @ChristosArgyrop wave, should ECMO be prioritized for the vaccinated? → https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1464033060639416321 | 01:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mauritius: +1934 cases (now 20913) since 16 days ago | 02:05 |
| sdfgsdfg | australian cases are only in melbourne now ZdrytchX_ , swinging between 800 to 1400 cases a day | 02:06 |
| sdfgsdfg | down from the peaks of recent 2000s, achieved since a u.s plane impregnated sydney 2 months ago, and sydney impregnated melb a month after that | 02:07 |
| sdfgsdfg | sydney was then also linked to new zealand's outbreak. | 02:09 |
| sdfgsdfg | that's it from down under, we opened our international borders now, accepting british flights soon - we're probably fucked. Korean and japanese flights beginning 1 Dec, right when korea's started peaking etc | 02:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: UK suspends flights to six African countries as new Covid variant raises alarms → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2b07s/uk_suspends_flights_to_six_african_countries_as/ | 02:12 |
| sdfgsdfg | not sure I might be wrong about uk flights | 02:12 |
| de-facto | what about South Africa? | 02:12 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03552-w | 02:13 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nature.com: Heavily mutated coronavirus variant puts scientists on alert | 02:13 |
| de-facto | PANGO-Lineage B.1.1.529 soon to be known as 𝜈-SARS-CoV-2-VoC first seen in South Africa Gauteng | 02:14 |
| ublx | squirrel | i've always thought, if one was to die one should die hard | 02:15 |
| ublx | what does that even mean | 02:15 |
| sdfgsdfg | pangooo | 02:16 |
| ublx | at any rate, it sounds somewhat antithetical to the general purpose of this channel, that purpose being something like taking an interest in what can be known and what can be done | 02:16 |
| sdfgsdfg | I can't find the list of countries yet, maybe opening of border for tourists and others is still in legislation. all I know is parliament is in chaos now, someone started a debate about removing the vaccine mandates in all states and got support of a lot of people. Sounds good | 02:22 |
| de-facto | its a mistake to open borders for traveling | 02:26 |
| de-facto | mark my words. | 02:26 |
| LjL | maybe the WHO should call it "variant of extreme concern, we're scared shitless" in tomorrow's meeting to make the point that countries should act to stop it | 02:26 |
| LjL | but i'm not sure if the WHO wants countries to stop it by stopping travel anyway, given the remark i quoted earlier | 02:27 |
| LjL | by the way, not to resurrect an old... thing... but i still wonder: South Africa is one of the countries with the most vaccine clinical trials, for various reasons | 02:28 |
| LjL | and so far it has brought us *two* very evasive mutants | 02:28 |
| sdfgsdfg | did anyone mention it's transmission compared to delta, delta+ and delta++ | 02:28 |
| LjL | i conjectured the vaccine trials may have been causing mutants back when mutants arose in South Africa, Brazil, and the UK, also countries where AZ was having trials | 02:28 |
| de-facto | South Africa is the place in Africa where they have very good surveillance | 02:29 |
| LjL | nobody took me very seriously, but, hey, i take myself seriously sometimes | 02:29 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, we're in very early stages to know quantitatively | 02:29 |
| de-facto | in most other African countries we simply have no clue what variants are circulating | 02:29 |
| sdfgsdfg | whatever the mutations it'll still probably fail if it's not at least as transmissive as delt | 02:29 |
| LjL | but qualitatively i think we're looking at "a shitton more transmission" | 02:29 |
| LjL | it's transmissive | 02:29 |
| LjL | it's quickly replacing other variants in the regions it's expanding | 02:29 |
| sdfgsdfg | that sounds great, I hope it jumps into israel after they got their 4892694th shot | 02:29 |
| sdfgsdfg | there's no other way people will come to a realization | 02:30 |
| de-facto | also South Africa got quite some HIV positive individuals, either under antivirals or immuno-suppressed so that may be related | 02:30 |
| LjL | what's the realization you have in mind? mine is that we should pump money into variant-specific vaccines and intranasal vaccines | 02:30 |
| sdfgsdfg | that we need to all sit at home for a while, that's the only way | 02:30 |
| LjL | instead of buying, well, a ton of the same Pfizer | 02:30 |
| sdfgsdfg | close everything | 02:30 |
| LjL | eh | 02:30 |
| LjL | i think we might have been successful with that early on, if we had really tried | 02:30 |
| LjL | i don't think it'd be successful now | 02:30 |
| sdfgsdfg | it's still probably the only way | 02:31 |
| de-facto | LjL, careful with that, SA got still very low incidence hence a single super spread may make it look like its taking over yet in reality it may be able to dominate pre-existing prevalence only because that was comparably low | 02:31 |
| sdfgsdfg | china's still out there | 02:31 |
| sdfgsdfg | keeping it strong | 02:31 |
| LjL | de-facto, okay, but they're also hinting that they can spot it from PCR tests | 02:31 |
| LjL | and that those tests show it's in other regions already | 02:31 |
| LjL | and apparently the person who had it in Hong Kong has already infected others | 02:32 |
| LjL | anyway we'll know soon | 02:32 |
| sdfgsdfg | we shouldn't even let our citizens back into our countries, not even hotel quarantine works | 02:32 |
| de-facto | yes but is there any place where it won competing with pre-existing Delta in averaged out community spread? | 02:32 |
| LjL | doesn't SA mostly have Delta itself now? | 02:32 |
| de-facto | e.g. with constantly high incidence numbers (where the "bubbling" of single events is not visible anymore)? | 02:32 |
| de-facto | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-africa/ | 02:33 |
| LjL | oh, high incidence, we'll see | 02:33 |
| de-facto | they have very low incidence right now | 02:33 |
| LjL | so far, i've heard a lot about founder effect, but the variants that were evil were just evil | 02:33 |
| LjL | Beta didn't get much of anywhere, but it was good at evading, not at transmission | 02:33 |
| de-facto | meaning a superspread will be able to easily contribute large portions to over all COVID cases | 02:33 |
| sdfgsdfg | UK had this fortnightly chart with percentage progress of variants | 02:33 |
| sdfgsdfg | can't we have the same for SA hah | 02:34 |
| LjL | it likely also didn't get much of anywhere because Delta did instead | 02:34 |
| LjL | which is not necessarily better | 02:34 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, the UK has pretty much the highest sequencing rate in the world, at least among sizable countries | 02:34 |
| LjL | so my practical guess would be "no" | 02:34 |
| LjL | as de-facto says, SA is probably the country in Africa with the most surveillance | 02:35 |
| sdfgsdfg | that was an awesome convenient chart to look at lol | 02:35 |
| LjL | but it's still a ton less than the UK | 02:35 |
| LjL | sdfgsdfg, you can view that sort of thing for other countries on outbreak.info but 1) it's not normalized in any way, so you can definitely see a variant more just because they're looking for it more, and 2) this variant isn't on it yet | 02:35 |
| LjL | but the initial graph for this new variant was posted on twitter from the numbers we have so far | 02:36 |
| LjL | where de-facto's disclaimers apply | 02:36 |
| de-facto | its concerning that B.1.1.529 accumulated that many mutations, yet i start worrying when it wins competing with delta in wide community transmission | 02:36 |
| LjL | like https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1463956686075580421 | 02:37 |
| sdfgsdfg | that looks like the ultimate variant we needed | 02:37 |
| LjL | and... i already can't find the other one | 02:38 |
| de-facto | there also may be effects like: someone found the new sequence, people got worried and collected as many sequences as possible to estimate its spread | 02:38 |
| LjL | here https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1463911571176968194 | 02:38 |
| de-facto | so it having more mutations may have it biased for putting more efforts into tracing it down hence overexposing it in terms of rate of sequences in that category | 02:39 |
| LjL | yes | 02:40 |
| de-facto | if they "just" would have found B.1.617.2 they would have thought "yeah ok thats what we had to expect, its everywhere, so whatever" | 02:40 |
| LjL | but i don't think the UK is stopping flights from SA and the WHO is calling an urgent meeting just because there was some slightly solicitous sequencing | 02:40 |
| de-facto | i am not playing it down, i am just saying that those initial rate comparisons of sequences may be heavily biased due to the small (hence correlated) number of cases | 02:42 |
| de-facto | founders effect, tracing it down amplification, etc | 02:42 |
| LjL | i know | 02:43 |
| LjL | i guess i kind of tend to be the devil's advocate | 02:43 |
| LjL | we'll see how this develops pretty quickly i think | 02:43 |
| LjL | i just don't think we'll like it | 02:43 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Sites in SARS-CoV-2 RBD where mutations reduce binding by antibodies / sera ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/JZ9NBPJ4 ) | 02:43 | |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A new Covid-19 variant could show immune evasion and enhanced transmissibility, South African scientists warn → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2bm2z/a_new_covid19_variant_could_show_immune_evasion/ | 02:49 |
| de-facto | SA does have a big increase in reproduction number though | 02:49 |
| LjL | i think if Brainstorm's feeds hadn't been down we'd have been flooded with news of this variant all day ;( | 02:49 |
| de-facto | any events recently there that may have bubbled this up? | 02:50 |
| LjL | but oh well we found out about it anyway... | 02:50 |
| LjL | i don't know. i wonder if aside from those "restriction index" sites i never did end up integrating into Brainstorm, there is anything trying to put together the "big events" in various places | 02:51 |
| de-facto | http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=South%20Africa&cumulative=no&miscType=Reff&leftTrim=500&rightTrim=3&legacy=no | 02:51 |
| LjL | events as in things with a lot of people attending | 02:51 |
| de-facto | it does not help that there is a huge single day spice in the SA data, since that is due to something else (hence my right trim their data) | 02:52 |
| LjL | by the way, it's summer in South Africa... | 02:52 |
| LjL | just for my usual "i doubt seasonality" bit | 02:52 |
| de-facto | some technical reporting issue, but after cutting that away there is a increase in cases and RT | 02:53 |
| de-facto | i suspect that they did have some event or such, because they have very low cases there | 02:53 |
| de-facto | so if removing restrictions then in such times | 02:53 |
| LjL | de-facto, apparently this was the way it was being seen a few days ago https://businesstech.co.za/news/government/540034/what-to-expect-from-south-africas-next-covid-19-wave-and-lockdown-restrictions-health-minister/ it doesn't hint that restrictions had been loosened, just that they weren't very tight | 02:58 |
| LjL | some restrictions were eased at the start of october | 02:59 |
| LjL | https://www.southafrica.net/gl/en/trade/page/coronavirus-covid-19-south-african-tourism-update | 03:00 |
| de-facto | so looking at Beta https://cov-lineages.org/global_report_B.1.351.html | 03:07 |
| de-facto | "The number of ticketed origin-to-destination journeys from South African airports to destinations outside of South Africa during October 2020." | 03:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: South Africa has identified a covid-19 variant with a large number of mutations. CBC Canada → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2bzrf/south_africa_has_identified_a_covid19_variant/ | 03:08 |
| de-facto | in descending order: Ethiopia, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Zimbabwe, Zambia, USA, Kenya, Germany Mozambique, China, Netherlands, Philippines, France, Turkey, Qatar, Pakistan, Tanzania, Canada, Belgium, Egypt, Namibia, Israel, Botswana, Malawi, Switzerland, Italy, India, Portugal, Ireland, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia | 03:10 |
| LjL | that's interesting they have that data | 03:10 |
| LjL | and i guess it explains why the UK is being so quick to act now | 03:11 |
| LjL | (still slow, but quicker than everyone else) | 03:11 |
| de-facto | i dont know how much things have changed in 2021 though, but if people stick to their habits it may be similar in some ways | 03:12 |
| de-facto | btw at some point B.1.1.529 may end up in the dataset of https://cov-spectrum.ethz.ch/explore/South%20Africa/AllSamples/AllTimes/variants and then we will be able to see how it competes | 03:16 |
| LjL | de-facto, i'm afraid the mindsets are still largely, and tragically, the same. see the point i've tried to make here, which was also your point... but more importantly, the point the other person was making, which i think is misguided but will stay that way for most https://twitter.com/Asinickle1/status/1463363140964560900 | 03:17 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Heavily mutated coronavirus variant puts scientists on alert ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/NG9S22SN ) | 03:18 | |
| de-facto | yeah thats true | 03:19 |
| LjL | de-facto, i have a pressing question: should https://jbloomlab.github.io/SARS2_RBD_Ab_escape_maps/ be in Models or Trackers | 03:20 |
| de-facto | oh wow thats a cool one | 03:22 |
| de-facto | id assume you mean Models of epidemiological relevance, and Tracers of genetic characteristics? | 03:23 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: covSPECTRUM ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/F4WTE7PR ) | 03:23 | |
| LjL | de-facto, in my subdivision Trackers tend to be whatever is tracking actual occurrences of things (cases, restrictions, variants), Models are whatever tries to "see into the future" or otherwise model something we don't know about directly | 03:25 |
| de-facto | so yeah then put it in Trackers i guess | 03:27 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +47290 cases (now 10.1 million) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +22239 cases (now 2.6 million) since 21 hours ago | 03:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : Add news of B.1.1.529 (likely "Nu") variant from South Africa: It seems to highly concern scientists and has already triggered travel restrictions in the UK. → https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/2d4b10e9b6c2f684748e05feaadc68b592d3ccd4 | 03:36 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Zotero / COVID links Group / Top-Level Items: Sites in SARS-CoV-2 RBD where mutations reduce binding by antibodies / sera ( https://www.zotero.org/groups/covid_links/items/CJXXKP9S ) | 03:38 | |
| de-facto | 77 samples with s-gene dropout were collected in South Africa Gauteng between 2021-11-12 till 2021-11-20 | 03:46 |
| de-facto | so maybe there was a spread during the weekend before that period, e.g. around 2021-11-06 ? | 03:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Declassified: French government gets coronavirus, wages war on the world’s oddest website → https://www.politico.eu/article/france-government-coronavirus-war-website-wish-jean-castex/ | 04:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Falkland Is.: +7 cases (now 79) since 18 days ago | 05:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: British politics: The next pandemic → https://www.politico.eu/podcast/the-next-pandemic/ | 05:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +74579 cases (now 5.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Belgium: +20836 cases (now 1.7 million), +50 deaths (now 26793), +136890 tests (now 24.1 million) since 23 hours ago — India: +10549 cases (now 34.6 million), +488 deaths (now 467468), +1181246 tests (now 637.1 million) since 23 hours ago | 05:30 |
| de-facto | ooof | 05:51 |
| de-facto | when will we get the lockdown? before or after 100k cases per day? | 05:53 |
| Trippy72894 | how serious is this new Botswana thing? | 06:11 |
| Trippy72894 | and the latest opinion on where we will all be in 5 years with this covid thing and vaccines etc? | 06:11 |
| Trippy72894 | many thanks | 06:11 |
| LjL | it looks pretty darned serious | 06:12 |
| LjL | and i have no idea | 06:12 |
| Trippy72894 | damn | 06:12 |
| LjL | %title https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03552-w | 06:12 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.nature.com: Heavily mutated coronavirus variant puts scientists on alert | 06:12 |
| LjL | we had also a few interesting twitter threads about it but i really need to sleep now | 06:12 |
| Trippy72894 | checking. | 06:13 |
| Trippy72894 | thanks my friend | 06:13 |
| Trippy72894 | sleep well | 06:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Scientists in South Africa detect new Covid-19 variant that poses ‘major threat’ → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2f86i/scientists_in_south_africa_detect_new_covid19/ | 06:15 |
| Trippy72894 | thanks | 06:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: UK raises alarm over new COVID variant which could beat vaccines → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/uk-raises-alarm-over-new-covid-variant-which-could-beat-vaccines-7642113/ | 06:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Saxony, Germany: +12501 cases (now 463887), +70 deaths (now 10835) since 23 hours ago — Saxony-Anhalt, Germany: +3425 cases (now 147750), +13 deaths (now 3766) since 23 hours ago — Limburg, Netherlands: +2461 cases (now 181773), +3 deaths (now 1848) since 23 hours ago — Zakarpattia Oblast, Ukraine: +671 cases (now 78376), +11 deaths (now 1995) since 23 hours ago | 06:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Czechs order bars and restaurants shut early, president taken to hospital with COVID → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/czechs-order-bars-and-restaurants-shut-early-president-taken-to-hospital-with-covid-7642129/ | 06:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Holmes (@holmescnn): The #COVID19 variant discovered in South Africa spreads with frightening speed, says Dr @EricTopol. "The big question now is will our immune response from vaccines, or prior infections, be blunted by this variant? That isn't clear yet." pic.twitter.com/UddbSPx5GT → https://twitter.com/holmescnn/status/1464104715571113992 | 07:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: WHO to meet on Friday to assess new Covid-19 variant detected in South Africa → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/south-africa-covid-19-variant-who-meeting-7642245/ | 07:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Czechia: +27793 cases (now 2.1 million), +120 deaths (now 32643) since a day ago | 07:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): Is it too much to ask when working with deadly SARS-Cov-2 virus, to please make sure your trainees have a good mask fitted? twitter.com/fitterhappierA… pic.twitter.com/NB7UTizp7F → https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1464126089563942952 | 07:59 |
| mrdata | in an effort to shut down covid disinformation, facebook is preventing sharing good information from public health ontario. here's the article they stopped me from sharing,https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-epi-confirmed-cases-post-vaccination.pdf?la=en | 08:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Guy Elster (@guyelster): #BREAKING Israel Health Ministry says it has identified three cases of the new South African Covid19 variant → https://twitter.com/guyelster/status/1464130218076037123 | 08:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): B.1.1.529 or the "Nu" variant - what we know so far: This post acts as a simple FAQ regarding what is known so far of the new variant in the news. It's currently accurate as of 7:20AM on Friday 26th November. I'll try to keep it updated if more info [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusUK/comments/r2hm24/b11529_or_the_nu_variant_what_we_know_so_far/ | 08:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | November 26, 2021: Please refer to our Wiki for more information on COVID-19 and our sub. You can find answers to frequently asked questions in our FAQ , where there is valuable information such as our: → https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/r2i6n5/daily_discussion_thread_november_26_2021/ | 09:07 |
| joerg | de-facto: "airlines: no SA residents to Germany" <Spahn> effective next night | 09:16 |
| joerg | I wish they also had mentioned the 14 day strict quarantine it needs for Herman residents from SA. Do we have that? | 09:17 |
| joerg | German* | 09:18 |
| joerg | meanwhile: triage is officially regulated. Great achievement | 09:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Africa: European Commission to propose Southern Africa travel shutdown over new coronavirus variant → https://www.politico.eu/article/von-der-leyen-commission-to-propose-southern-africa-travel-shutdown-over-new-coronavirus-variant/ | 09:26 |
| darsie | joerg: link for triage regulation? | 09:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD 🧬 (@michaelzlin): Specifically, how could molnupiravir (Lagevrio) work by causing mutations in SARSCoV2, but when Merck sequences virus from patients taking molnupiravir they see no higher rate of mutations. Is the drug working or not?sciencedirect.com/science/articl… → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1464149320165470211 | 09:35 |
| darsie | In Germany? | 09:36 |
| genera | i think .at ? | 09:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD 🧬 (@michaelzlin): FDA cannot approve monupiravir (and MHRA should rescind their conditional approval) until we know for sure that the drug is not increasing mutagenesis of SARSCoV2 in patients taking it. But again that just seems logically impossible. Merck [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1464149323663527957 | 09:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid variant: UK put safety first over Africa travel - Shapps: Fears about the impact on vaccines mean travel from six African countries had to be restricted, he adds. → https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59428398 | 10:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_ITALIA: "However, England's deputy chief medical officer Prof Jonathan Van-Tam said such an (indoor) gathering (of all vaccinated people) would be "incredibly safe". Ah no scusate, questo era Aprile 2021. La scienza cambia. → https://old.reddit.com/r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA/comments/r2iy48/however_englands_deputy_chief_medical_officer/ | 10:13 |
| joerg | darsie: "TV-PK of Verband der Aerzte Ethik in der intensivmaedizin" this morning, Tagesschau24 ~8:30 somesuch | 10:20 |
| joerg | in Germany | 10:21 |
| joerg | re » <joerg> I wish they also had mentioned the 14 day strict quarantine « Spahn just mentioned exactly that: 14 day strict quarantine, foe all travelers from SA and neighbor countries | 10:23 |
| aradesh | why are vaccination rates so low in the USA? | 10:31 |
| aradesh | surely they have enough vaccines, is it literally just that they have in the order of 25% of their population simply refusing? | 10:31 |
| joerg | most likely, yes | 10:33 |
| joerg | all the trumpists | 10:34 |
| joerg | who still think wearing a mask is already treason | 10:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +34 cases (now 7.6 million) since 13 hours ago — Germany: +73624 cases (now 5.7 million) since 20 hours ago | 10:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Israel detects its first case of new coronavirus variant → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/israel-first-new-coronavirus-variant-7642522/ | 10:41 |
| sdfgsdfg | news article just published on how australia will keep it's newly opened borders open to south africa even though there's a concerning new variant | 10:42 |
| aradesh | joerg: "please wear a mask" "OMG TYRANNY!" | 10:42 |
| sdfgsdfg | political tyranny | 10:43 |
| sdfgsdfg | it's real | 10:43 |
| sdfgsdfg | the new variant doesnt seem to be just another trolling attempt by media for likes, it's promising | 10:44 |
| aradesh | promising? | 10:45 |
| sdfgsdfg | for a minority yes | 10:45 |
| sdfgsdfg | one could even call it biblical | 10:45 |
| sdfgsdfg | LOL | 10:45 |
| sdfgsdfg | aradesh : you ever dreamed about a variant that could solve the issues of starvation, poverty, overpopulation and climate change ? it's promising | 10:48 |
| aradesh | what, by wiping out a significant percentage of the planet? | 10:48 |
| aradesh | it would only solve one of those issues - overpopulation | 10:49 |
| aradesh | but it would also wreck the economy in the short/medium term as we'd not be prepared for it | 10:49 |
| aradesh | and the supply chains | 10:49 |
| sdfgsdfg | who's gonna pay you when they're dead ? you're literally the new boss now if you survived it | 10:50 |
| sdfgsdfg | lands wouldn't be owned by anyone alive either | 10:50 |
| sdfgsdfg | mostly | 10:50 |
| aradesh | well if you're looking at 99% fatality, maybe :P | 10:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: First Opinion: Opinion: The pandemic has deeply affected many people with eating disorders → https://www.statnews.com/2021/11/26/pandemic-deeply-affected-many-people-with-eating-disorders/ | 10:51 |
| aradesh | also most of the people who know how to 'run everything' would be dead too | 10:51 |
| sdfgsdfg | 144,000 survivors | 10:51 |
| sdfgsdfg | but jesus has to be back before that happens | 10:51 |
| sdfgsdfg | I don't see him anywhere | 10:51 |
| * joerg recommends reading some articles about results from plague | 10:51 | |
| aradesh | the internet, industry, electricity, television, media would all stop | 10:52 |
| aradesh | you'd really struggle to actually find any IRL people | 10:52 |
| aradesh | if it got down to 144,000 survivors | 10:53 |
| aradesh | so you'd probably just die | 10:53 |
| aradesh | before being able to breed and set up a new stable community | 10:53 |
| joerg | iirc it actually resulted in an economic and social boom over the course of a few centuries after | 10:53 |
| aradesh | you'd probably not starve though | 10:55 |
| aradesh | lots of tinned food in the supermarkets :D | 10:55 |
| sdfgsdfg | they're spamming the media again about this variant it'll probably end up being not as harmless. Delta didn't appear with an announcement | 10:55 |
| sdfgsdfg | actually it did... hmm | 10:57 |
| specing | Has anyone read "How to Lie with Statistics" by Darell Huff? Any good? | 10:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66): We haven't managed to keep a variant out yet (except in COVID-zero countries) - just sometimes buy a couple weeks. So also *critical* to decide what you are going to do with that time. If just whistle for 2 weeks: not helpful. Reconsider restrictions, [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1464169658874056768 | 11:00 |
| sdfgsdfg | was there a Nu variant before ? or was it Mu | 11:04 |
| sdfgsdfg | fuck this is starting to get confusing | 11:05 |
| sdfgsdfg | I thought they didn't even name it yet but I see news mentioning some Mu | 11:05 |
| sdfgsdfg | I mean Nu* | 11:05 |
| sdfgsdfg | "The World Health Organization is convening an experts' meeting from Geneva at midday (1100 GMT) on Friday to assess the new COVID-19 variant B.1.1.529 amid growing concern, a spokesperson said." | 11:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Jeffrey Barrett (@jcbarret): Meanwhile: highest ever single day case numbers on consecutive days, plus highest positivity rate in the testing era (i.e. after spring 2020) = the most intense amount of ongoing transmission Finland has experienced in the pandemic. twitter.com/bot_fi/status/… → https://twitter.com/jcbarret/status/1464172841444823041 | 11:09 |
| sdfgsdfg | apparently that W.H.O meeting is starting in 45 minutes | 11:17 |
| serafeim | hello friends | 11:22 |
| serafeim | did you see the botswana thingie ? | 11:22 |
| Dredd | Yeah, the new strain? | 11:22 |
| serafeim | crazy ? how many will they invent ? | 11:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Why don’t we ȷust open the windows?: The world is finally coming to terms with the realisation that transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is airborne.1 First came the modelling studies, sizing up airborne particles, their trajectories, and viral... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2895.short | 11:29 |
| specing | A: it's cold outside | 11:30 |
| serafeim | ha | 11:37 |
| specing | I don't understand why we don't have mandatory vaccinations yet, so stupid | 11:37 |
| Dredd | <serafeim> "crazy ? how many will they..." <- They? The virus will keep evolving - just what they do | 11:38 |
| serafeim | so you believe that this is a "natural" virus? because many people think that it was created in some china labs. | 11:39 |
| specing | I don't care | 11:42 |
| serafeim | you shoukld | 11:43 |
| specing | it's quite plausible that it escaped a lab, but that doesen't affect me either way | 11:43 |
| serafeim | what about the mutations though? did they escape also the lab ? | 11:43 |
| specing | I think that covid is overall good, it resulted in a lot of money thrown at technology and therefore it took less time to develop than what it would take had we not have a pandemic | 11:44 |
| specing | good for me* | 11:44 |
| specing | can't speak about the 4 (?) million dead | 11:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Triggers for treaty negotiations: could lessons from environmental protection inform a prospective pandemic treaty?: In March 2021, 26 heads of state called for a global pandemics treaty, illustrating the magnitude of the threat.1 Not surprisingly, the call has prompted reports and recommendations from specialist... → http://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068903.short | 11:48 |
| Dredd | serafeim: even if it was created in a lab that doesn't mean it isn't mutating out in the world? | 11:51 |
| serafeim | yes maybe. but coudln't that also mean that the mutations are created in the lab ? | 11:52 |
| serafeim | i mean don't you think that the big pharma is really happy about the covid ? | 11:52 |
| Dredd | Some but probably not all - there are so many out there | 11:52 |
| Dredd | I think big pharma are happy with covid whether it is natural or man made as far as being able to profit from it | 11:53 |
| serafeim | of course | 11:53 |
| serafeim | when such situations happen you usually follow the money | 11:53 |
| Dredd | But they also always have more drugs to profit with too, so no I don't think it's likely personally they big pharma are part of some conspiracy to create the virus | 11:53 |
| specing | I don't think big pharma likes covid | 11:54 |
| specing | Why? Because covid kills you fast | 11:54 |
| specing | They want people to use their expensive drugs for years | 11:54 |
| specing | covid is basically wiping the floor of all the old people on 50 drugs each | 11:55 |
| serafeim | the dead aren't that many... and the people that will get the vaccination are way too many | 11:57 |
| specing | so? vaccination is one-time | 11:58 |
| specing | https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/health-expenditures.htm | 12:00 |
| specing | What's $40 for two doses of comirnaty compared to "Per capita national health expenditures: $11,172 (2018)"? | 12:01 |
| specing | insignificant cost | 12:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: New Covid variant roils global markets with oil sinking 5% → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2kjtr/new_covid_variant_roils_global_markets_with_oil/ | 12:17 |
| specing | Time to buy the dip | 12:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Pandemic depression persists among older adults. A national team of researchers found that 43% of adults aged 50 or older experienced moderate or high levels of depressive symptoms at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, and that increased [... want %more?] → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/r2krtr/pandemic_depression_persists_among_older_adults_a/ | 12:26 |
| MerlinMp[m] | <sdfgsdfg> "144,000 survivors" <- This is intetesting. Is there any country which has zero restrictions in the world? What is the top total fatalities by now? | 12:31 |
| zutt | %cases Palau | 12:33 |
| Brainstorm | zutt: Palau has had 8 confirmed cases (0.0% of all people) and 0 deaths (0.0% of cases) as of a month ago. 11133 tests were done (0.1% positive). 14464 were vaccinated (80.8%). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Palau&legacy=no | 12:33 |
| Brainstorm | zutt: If you know of an official or otherwise good site for data about Palau, with a reasonably short URL, please %tell LjL about it. | 12:33 |
| finely[m] | <specing> "Has anyone read "How to Lie with..." <- Tobacco industry shill. | 12:38 |
| finely[m] | https://pluralistic.net/2021/01/04/how-to-truth/#harford | 12:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nepal: +242 cases (now 820527), +2 deaths (now 11518), +7829 tests (now 4.6 million) since a day ago | 12:39 |
| specing | finely[m]: yeah, but apparently it was quite popular | 12:45 |
| specing | finely[m]: I'll read it | 12:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: As a new COVID-19 variant leaves investors holding their breath, Friday afternoon looked like early days of pandemic → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2kyk7/as_a_new_covid19_variant_leaves_investors_holding/ | 12:45 |
| specing | > In the 1960s and 1970s, it became a standard textbook introduction to the subject of statistics for many college students. It has become one of the best-selling statistics books in history, with over one and a half million copies sold in the English-language edition.[1] It has also been widely translated. | 12:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tom Wenseleers (@TWenseleers): @jcbarret @AdamJKucharski If the time you buy is well spent, e.g. by massively ramping up vaccination efforts, then I guess it could make a difference? In the same way that Australia & NZ eventually ended up with a highly vaccinated population & kept out [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1464199800556077085 | 12:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Coronavirus: Countries shut borders over new variant in southern Africa → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2lmwi/coronavirus_countries_shut_borders_over_new/ | 13:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: New coronavirus variant causes worry across the globe—key developments → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/south-africa-coronavirus-variant-top-developments-7642629/ | 13:43 |
| joerg | folks, the virus is clearly not been designed in a lab anywhere, that's proven by mere feasibility considerations. Maybe it escaped from a lab that tested pathogens from animals or whatever. Doesn't matter. And absolutely no way that same nonexistent rogue lab designs new mutations and spreads them in arbitrary countries all over the world. That's plain silly a thing to believe | 13:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: Cryptocurrencies tumble as coronavirus variant shakes markets | 26NOV21 → https://old.reddit.com/r/nCoV/comments/r2mn33/cryptocurrencies_tumble_as_coronavirus_variant/ | 14:02 |
| Dredd | joerg: I also agree with that appraisal of the facts myself too | 14:08 |
| joerg | let me share a goodie on top: » <serafeim> when such situations happen you usually follow the money « don't you think anybody smart enough to design and spread such a virus for mere commercial interest would also be smart enough to already have the remedy on shelf, or at very least the papers for such remedy in their desk drawer? IIRC the first to offer a vaccine was Russia and they didn't succeed with commercializing it since any proper phase2/3 tests | 14:14 |
| joerg | are still missing. | 14:14 |
| joerg | also they fail epically to vaccinate their own people | 14:15 |
| joerg | "follow the money" only is a wise advice when there's money involved | 14:16 |
| joerg | btw did you hear the moon is made of cheddar cheese? | 14:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Two cases of 'nu' Covid variant found in Belgium → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2mr4w/two_cases_of_nu_covid_variant_found_in_belgium/ | 14:22 |
| joerg | live coverage of german airforce transporting covid-victims from Bavaria to north of germany. I hope they also use some military lorries to transport them to the airport. Or at least place several of those lorries there for decoration | 14:26 |
| joerg | a convoy of military trucks makes for much better pictures than a mere A400 | 14:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +7973 cases (now 982290) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +74454 cases (now 5.7 million) since 23 hours ago | 14:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Belgian politics: ‘Worse than the worst-case scenario’: Belgium tightens coronavirus rules → https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-new-coronavirus-restrictions-november-december-2021/ | 14:32 |
| ublx | nakedcapitalism.com managing to sound quite alarming on the new variant/strain: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021/11/probable-vaccine-escaping-covid-variant-sequenced-in-gauteng-south-africa-and-spreading-rapidly-press-underplaying-downside-risk.html | 14:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: WHO hosts special meeting on worrying new COVID-19 variant → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/who-hosts-special-meeting-on-worrying-new-covid-19-variant-7643147/ | 14:41 |
| joerg | ARRRGH, B.1.1.529 in Belgium | 14:48 |
| ublx | it will be everywhere soon, if it isn't already, no? | 14:49 |
| minthos | yep | 14:49 |
| minthos | wuhan all over again | 14:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Belgium records Europe's first case of the new coronavirus variant spreading in southern Africa → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2nkhd/belgium_records_europes_first_case_of_the_new/ | 14:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk): Belgium's first case of new COVID variant is a young, unvaccinated woman who returned from Egypt on Nov. 11 and developed symptoms 11 days later - RTBF → https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1464229675253833735 | 15:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Bloom Lab (@jbloom_lab): @jcbarret Although no B.1.1.529 mutations *individually* reduce binding of S309 (sotrovimab). Here's mutations & escape data on antibody- (dms-view.github.io/?markdown-url=…) & ACE2-bound (dms-view.github.io/?markdown-url=…). Of course, w so many mutations [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab/status/1464238823273943044 | 15:30 |
| de-facto | Due to still tolerating international airtraveling and tourism we will always stay up-to-date with imports of the latest scary mutants, its a decision of a society, holidays, tourism and being entertained is more important to our society than maintaining everyday routines, letting schools open and keeping hospital resources available to everyone | 15:38 |
| Jigsy | And yet another variant? | 15:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Belgium confirms first case of new coronavirus variant: Belgium has confirmed it has detected one case of the new variant of coronavirus that has prompted Europe and the U.K. to issue travel restrictions for parts of Africa over the last 24 hours. Health Minister [... want %more?] → https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-confirms-first-case-of-new-coronavirus-variant/ | 15:40 |
| de-facto | i mean what do we expect? if we dont change anything to the known transportation paths (they have been investigated in detail many many times now) the imports of course will always continue | 15:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Bangladesh: +239 cases (now 1.6 million), +3 deaths (now 27973), +16916 tests (now 10.8 million) since 20 hours ago | 15:40 |
| de-facto | it was known since the initial Wuhan outbreak and its spread via airtraveling all around the globe | 15:40 |
| de-facto | it happened many times again, with every variant, nobody shut down the airtravel industry | 15:41 |
| Dredd | If this ends up being what i was calling "covid-next", or in other works the next significant iteration from Delta, then it seems like my pessimistic timeline is right on track | 15:42 |
| Dredd | 😟 | 15:43 |
| minthos | based on the limited information so far it seems extremely infectious, I guess the big question is how deadly it is | 15:43 |
| de-facto | its ok to risk making ONE mistake, but its futile to ignore the opportunity to learn from the result, repeating mistakes is indication of a fundamental inability, hence urgency for change | 15:43 |
| de-facto | international travel without quarantine must stop indefinitely | 15:44 |
| de-facto | its not normal to allow global traveling without quarantine for humans (its completely insane) and that is known as for animals there IS a mandatory quarantine | 15:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Spikevax (previously COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna), COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (nucleoside modified), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 06/01/2021, Revision: 16, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/spikevax | 15:50 |
| Dredd | <joerg> "let me share a goodie on top: »..." <- That's usually the line that comes next in the typical conspiracy theory and also given as the reason why it matters whether the virus was engineered. I.e. "because we need to find the cure they have stashed away" | 15:51 |
| Dredd | Like the plot of a super villain | 15:51 |
| Dredd | de-facto: I dunno, it's normal for stupid humans I think 😛 | 15:52 |
| Dredd | Lol Moderna vaccine is called Spikevax now? | 15:53 |
| de-facto | ok we as a human race did make that mistake of allowing global traveling without quarantine, now we can observe what this means for the spread of a contagious pathogen, time to learn from that mistake and implement mandatory quarantine for all intercontinental global traveling, just as it already is the case for animals (the reasoning being exactly the same) | 15:58 |
| de-facto | in fact this may be the most important thing we can learn from COVID | 16:01 |
| minthos | elon is right, establishing redundancy is urgent | 16:02 |
| de-facto | full ack | 16:02 |
| de-facto | we can also learn from COVID how to prevent and trace down community transmission, though just if we want to employ that unique opportunity to improve our abilities | 16:13 |
| de-facto | the ability to trace down and extinguish an outbreak of a highly contagious pathogen would be extremely important, because its not a question IF the next pathogen that spreads will be more deadly, its only a question of WHEN that will happen (and if we by then are prepared for it by having learned from COVID) | 16:15 |
| de-facto | if the global population is segmented into compartments that only are connected via mandatory quarantine it may buy us enough time to detect a novel outbreak of a pathogen in time and trace it down in just the origin compartment instead of having to deal with a global spread | 16:16 |
| lastshell | besides boosters/masks do we have other way to protect ourselfs ? | 16:17 |
| de-facto | testing | 16:18 |
| de-facto | tracing down outbreaks | 16:18 |
| de-facto | reducing contact rates at the interconnects between cohorts | 16:18 |
| de-facto | if we used the urgency imposed on us by the COVID situation to establish a decentralized resource efficient (minimized consumables) testing network of PCR test capacity for mandatory and regular testing of a whole population we would have a tool at our hands that could trace down any pathogen (or variant of it) by just publishing the appropriate sets of primers | 16:22 |
| lastshell | if the goverment is not functional how a organized sociaty can be ? | 16:23 |
| lastshell | sorry for been pesimist | 16:24 |
| minthos | we can organize without governments | 16:24 |
| lastshell | true but we sometimes depends of other gov entities | 16:24 |
| lastshell | example | 16:24 |
| lastshell | here in Vegas they don't give updates in some numbers because holidays | 16:25 |
| lastshell | so I don't know my current situation on my state for some days | 16:25 |
| lastshell | like right now I'm blind not knowing some metrics | 16:26 |
| minthos | numbers always lag behind reality anyway | 16:26 |
| lastshell | yeah that is true, and those are reported numbers no all cases | 16:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): One person has NU, and was not vaccinated:twitter.com/MaesPiet/statu… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1464252906329288706 | 16:29 |
| de-facto | another key point we observe now is that vaccine production and distribution is by far not fast enough to contain outbreaks or variants of a pathogen, hence we should use the opportunity to establish a decentralized resource efficient network for generic vaccine production capacity that can be employed for deploying simultaneous vaccinations for everyone | 16:34 |
| lastshell | de-facto do we need new vaccines I mean new vaccines now targeting some aggresive variants ? | 16:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +4315 cases (now 1.8 million), +20 deaths (now 29658) since 23 hours ago — United Kingdom: +47208 cases (now 10.1 million) since 23 hours ago | 16:36 |
| minthos | it seems likely that b11529 could need new vaccines because it's so mutated | 16:37 |
| de-facto | i hope soon we will know the vaccine efficacy with Wuhan-Hu-1 s-protein signatures (almost 2 years old now) against the Nu-variant (B.1.1.529) | 16:37 |
| de-facto | yes | 16:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: Human medicine assessment reports: (news): Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Insulin aspart Sanofi, insulin aspart, Diabetes Mellitus, Date of authorisation: 25/06/2020, Revision: 3, Status: Authorised → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/insulin-aspart-sanofi | 16:38 |
| de-facto | the more mutations a variant of a pathogen accumulated the more different it is (also in terms of surface characteristics) to its ancestors, hence depending on the meaning of those mutations (e.g. if they occurred in the places where the antibodies would try to dock onto the surface) | 16:39 |
| de-facto | t-cells remember smaller parts of the antigen, hence most likely will be able to still recognize it | 16:40 |
| de-facto | but it also may be that some of the new mutations have a different meaning, e.g. increased ability to evade the innate (non-specific) immune responses | 16:40 |
| de-facto | thats why i am curious to see how B.1.1.529 competes with the known VoCs such as Delta in the same society with wide spread community transmission (so that individual bubbling up due to founders effects are equalized) for a fair comparison of its properties | 16:42 |
| de-facto | (not that i hope to see widespread community transmission of B.1.1.529, i hope it can be contained, but i am pessimistic with current attitude of most societies to achieve something like that) | 16:43 |
| minthos | it's too late, it's already everywhere if it's being detected in multiple countries | 16:45 |
| minthos | they could lock down now and save a bunch of lives, but they won't of course | 16:46 |
| minthos | we don't know how deadly it is and nobody wants to take action just in case | 16:46 |
| minthos | the bias towards the status quo is strong | 16:46 |
| de-facto | its never to late to start with establishing above mentioned capabilities, if it wont containt B.1.1.529 it may contain the mutant that would otherwise impose the next big problem on us | 16:47 |
| de-facto | the sooner we would start with doing that the more mature our capabilities would be for meeting the next biohazard challenge | 16:48 |
| minthos | of course, I didn't mean to imply that it's too late to act, just that this particular cat is out of the bag | 16:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: General: COVID-19: latest updates → https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/public-health-threats/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/covid-19-latest-updates | 16:48 |
| de-facto | maybe it depends if it already is in community spread | 16:48 |
| minthos | I think there are thousands of cases outside south africa already | 16:49 |
| de-facto | if its only cases that can be connected to recent travel it may be possible to contain those and thereby preventing community spread (defined by not knowing a specific origin of infection) | 16:49 |
| de-facto | how would we know if it is possible to contain it if we would not even start considering to try to do this | 16:51 |
| minthos | it's politically impossible until the virus proves that it's justified | 16:53 |
| de-facto | oh it will prove that for sure | 16:53 |
| de-facto | its only a question of time | 16:53 |
| minthos | people can be really stubborn | 16:54 |
| de-facto | hence those that started earlier to develop such capabilities will have a time advantage over those that still hope their wishful thinking will come true that by ignoring its presence it will vanish magically on its own or something like that | 16:54 |
| de-facto | did the problems related to COVID increase or decrease? are we now not dealing with much more aggressive variants of it compared to the earlier versions? | 16:57 |
| de-facto | why would we assume that this observed trend would not continue like it currently does? | 16:57 |
| Arsanerit | Should I worry about ν? | 16:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): Viruses I have worked with:HPV 16, 18AAVLentivirusVacciniaOffers I have gotten from BSL-3 labs1 → https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1464261142692470784 | 16:58 |
| de-facto | transmission dynamics directly reflect on the currently established attitude in a society | 17:00 |
| spybert | I wonder if the reason the US hasn't already banned flights from South Africa is because the new variant is already here in the US? | 17:01 |
| de-facto | i rather would think its their inability to react fast enough | 17:01 |
| de-facto | its too late by definition if intercontinental flights are tolerated without mandating quarantine onto travelers | 17:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from LitCovid: (news): Flares of mixed cryoglobulinaemia vasculitis after vaccination against SARS-CoV-2. → https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/research/coronavirus/publication/34819272 | 17:08 |
| de-facto | btw i think another point now becomes important: SA should not be punished for warning us about their discovery of the B.1.1.529 variant (which would lead to motivation to hide such things in future), it should receive as much international support as possible to contain it | 17:16 |
| Guest23 | it seems like THIS variant is terrible | 17:17 |
| ublx | have to wait and see what it means for the disease severity aspect | 17:17 |
| Guest23 | i think shutdown the airlines wont work | 17:17 |
| Guest23 | just like alpha and delta | 17:18 |
| ublx | don't the the airline routes shutdowns are about containment, just about buying extra time | 17:18 |
| Guest23 | yes ur right | 17:19 |
| de-facto | intercontinental passenger airtraveling without mandatory quarantine (as it is required for animals already) should have been permanently banned long time ago | 17:19 |
| Guest23 | but it seems like we can do noting in the extra time we buy) | 17:21 |
| de-facto | how about testing and tracing it down, like China did it multiple times already? | 17:22 |
| Guest23 | thats perfect for sure | 17:23 |
| Guest23 | i live in China actually | 17:23 |
| Guest23 | but | 17:23 |
| Guest23 | i dont think people in the western countries will obey | 17:24 |
| de-facto | a large part of epidemic dynamics are related to current attitude in the population indeed | 17:26 |
| Guest23 | i think maybe even Chinas govorment | 17:26 |
| aann | so the corporations and chamber of commerce will decide | 17:28 |
| Guest23 | cannot hold US people to obey their anti-pandemic rules，too | 17:28 |
| Guest23 | *I mean if China s gov rules US | 17:29 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +21333 cases (now 2.6 million), +60 deaths (now 19666) since 23 hours ago | 17:32 |
| de-facto | wow humans even are not smart enough to implement proper quarantine | 17:34 |
| de-facto | maybe intercontinental traveling should just end completely | 17:35 |
| de-facto | https://twitter.com/nzm8qs/status/1463900553516236803 | 17:35 |
| de-facto | "The case detected in Hong Kong has been staying in South Africa from Oct. 22nd to Nov. 11th. | 17:35 |
| de-facto | He had a PCR negative result before flying from HK to SA, and another negative after arriving at HK from SA. His 2nd test result was positive on Nov. 13th during qurantine." | 17:35 |
| de-facto | "Qurantine hotel breach happened. | 17:36 |
| de-facto | This 36YO patient with B.1.1.529 infected another 60YO male in the opposite room." | 17:36 |
| finely[m] | <specing> "finely: yeah, but apparently..." <- So was dying of cancer. Try the hardford book instead. | 17:36 |
| de-facto | "the 36YO patient was in the quarantine hotel from Nov. 11th until 14th, when his 2nd PCR test result came back positive. " | 17:36 |
| de-facto | "The 62YO patient was in the same hotel from Nov. 10th until 18th, when his 4th PCR test result came back positive." | 17:36 |
| de-facto | " Both patients have been double vaxxed with BNT around May/June. and their Ct value was 18 and 19 respectively." | 17:36 |
| de-facto | thats CRAZY high viral load | 17:36 |
| de-facto | "The investigation team took 87 env samples in and around their rooms, and found 25 of them positive, from both rooms." | 17:38 |
| de-facto | "They believe it's airborne transmission (yes apparently it is), and they subsequently tightened their already tight qurantine rules: | 17:38 |
| de-facto | Now masks with exhale valves are banned throughout the arrival quarantine period." | 17:38 |
| de-facto | CT values mean "cycle threshold" for PCR test, the number of cycles required to get enough amplification of the original sample to reach detection threshold | 17:39 |
| de-facto | the fewer cycles the more RNA was in the sample | 17:40 |
| ublx | where were they on the asymptomatic to ill scale, though? | 17:40 |
| de-facto | so values as low as 18-19 mean that lot of virus was in the sample taken form them | 17:41 |
| de-facto | ublx, unknown it seems | 17:41 |
| ublx | they must know, though. why aren't they reporting that | 17:42 |
| ublx | not saying it's the only concerning question, but still want to know | 17:42 |
| de-facto | well i dont know, can we find out if they are still inside that quarantine hotel or hospitalized? | 17:43 |
| de-facto | although they say in HK its pretty common to always hospitalize (regardless of severity) | 17:43 |
| de-facto | i guess they cant provide much medical assistance in the quarantine hotel, so if we would know they still would be inside that hotel we probably could assume their cases are not super severe | 17:44 |
| ublx | i suppose that must be the implication | 17:45 |
| ublx | still, cases in south africa, hong kong, belgium via egypt... you'd think there would be easily accessible comment on severity by now | 17:50 |
| de-facto | there are very scary graphs circulating on twitter right now | 17:51 |
| de-facto | https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1464119235655970819 | 17:51 |
| de-facto | .title | 17:51 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From twitter.com: Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing): "⚠️My god—the new #B11259 variant being possibly ~500% more competitively infectious is the most staggering stat yet. Also, #NuVariant has more than >2x the number of bad spike mutations than Delta. Here’s an updated Model by @JPWeiland matches up with graph by @jburnmurdoch" | All the movies are marvel slop made by pedophiles | 17:51 |
| de-facto | i dont know what to think about these, their upstream data may be heavily biased due to founders effect as competing in low prevalence areas with small (hence correlated) number of cases for (probably heavily traced down) cases of B.1.1.529 | 17:53 |
| rpifan | umm | 17:54 |
| rpifan | is it really that bad? | 17:54 |
| rpifan | will my delta antibodies protect me? | 17:54 |
| de-facto | i would assume that if competing in (averaged out) community spread it would (hopefully) be much less than 500% (that would be completely crazy) | 17:54 |
| rpifan | the problem is germany will not lockdwon like it should | 17:54 |
| ublx | i saw some remarks thrown about that cases reporting in SA had been spotty and that to some degree the spike evident there reflected a catch up in reporting | 17:54 |
| de-facto | ah you mean the single day spike?? | 17:55 |
| ublx | i guess. drive by comment on reddit | 17:55 |
| de-facto | would make sense | 17:55 |
| ublx | "The Belgium tourist returned from Egypt on November 11 and developed symptoms 11 days later. Also unvaccinated." | 17:57 |
| ublx | no particular reason then to think it came via egypt i guess | 17:57 |
| de-facto | rpifan, unclear the B.1.1.529 has a very high number of mutations (also in the s-protein), maybe it emerged in a long lasting infection in a HIV-patient or such | 17:57 |
| rpifan | well i have hiv | 17:58 |
| rpifan | and theortically i beat it | 17:58 |
| rpifan | but for the last month ive had a cough | 17:58 |
| rpifan | i saw the doctor he sent me antibiotics | 17:59 |
| rpifan | then some steroids | 17:59 |
| rpifan | and now im back again with the covid and phlegm | 17:59 |
| rpifan | im a bit concerened, i mean i thought with my delta antibodies i will fine but if this really is totally different and i get infectedit might be bad | 18:00 |
| de-facto | we simply do not know such things, but i am sure it will be investigated as its relevant for everybody | 18:00 |
| de-facto | hmm ublx good point, so you think that case in Belgium got it form another source already in the country? | 18:01 |
| de-facto | that would mean community transmission in place since it could not be traced to recent traveling then | 18:01 |
| ublx | well nu could have been active for a while, which if so would bring that 500% number down | 18:02 |
| ublx | to something that seems less nuts | 18:03 |
| de-facto | yeah it would be completely nuts, tbh i dont think this can be accurate | 18:03 |
| de-facto | but having that many mutations, some of them having some functional meaning, it really could change the properties fundamentally, especially since there may be synergetic effects (one mutation profiting from another in place) | 18:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Health: What’s known and unknown about the coronavirus variant identified in South Africa → https://www.statnews.com/2021/11/26/whats-known-and-unknown-about-the-coronavirus-variant-identified-in-south-africa/ | 18:07 |
| de-facto | also what i find worrying is that so many mutations already are found in other (previous) variants, meaning if they occurred by convergent evolution (independently re-occurrence of the same advantageous mutation due to similarities in human biology) the other (unknown) ones possibly also could have been selected due to some (unknown) fitness advantage of the pathogen | 18:07 |
| LjL | did the WHO have their meeting? | 18:07 |
| LjL | also hi | 18:08 |
| LjL | rpifan, you mean you have covid again? | 18:09 |
| rpifan | afaik no | 18:10 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Coronavirus: EU to block flights after Belgium new variant case → https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2rgzj/coronavirus_eu_to_block_flights_after_belgium_new/ | 18:11 |
| LjL | de-facto, it's already too late | 18:11 |
| de-facto | its never too late | 18:12 |
| de-facto | the already too late attitude brought us where we are right now | 18:12 |
| ublx | the overreact now, calm down later strategy? | 18:15 |
| Arsanerit | I am not convinced that modern society is capable of preventing global spread of new variants, when neither testing nor vaccination will ever be 100% effective. Even remote/isolated Australia and New Zealand, which succeeded at this for a long time (at a significant societal cost), have given up. | 18:15 |
| de-facto | after having opened for traveling | 18:15 |
| Arsanerit | Yes, they gave up on the zero covid strategy. | 18:16 |
| de-facto | that was a gigantic mistake | 18:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): What is driving the new case records in Germany?The people who aren't vaccinatedmedrxiv.org/content/10.110… @BenFMaier @DirkBrockmann @rki_de and colleagues pic.twitter.com/IpRPULVuoc → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1464280811289468930 | 18:16 |
| spybert | Arsanerit: The ironic thing is that there really is no need for international travel in a society with our technology. | 18:17 |
| Arsanerit | spybert: there is for people fleeing from war | 18:18 |
| Arsanerit | refugees have a physiological need for international travel | 18:18 |
| de-facto | i dont think so, problems eventually have to be solved locally anyhow, and that requires people participating in solving them | 18:19 |
| Arsanerit | maybe some people prioritise staying alive — I don't blame them | 18:20 |
| de-facto | with mandatory quarantine implemented properly intercontinental traveling may be possible, but i doubt humans are smart enough to even solve proper quarantine (as seen in how often it breaches) | 18:21 |
| Arsanerit | How will you stop a virus from spreading over land from China to Germany? | 18:22 |
| Arsanerit | We could go back to traveling by sailboats. They're slow enough such that the travel time is enough of a quarantine :) | 18:23 |
| Arsanerit | And it's good for climate too. | 18:23 |
| ublx | lol de-facto, no heart. you'd tell refugees "nuh uh, get back in the crossfire"? | 18:23 |
| ublx | i'd say running away from gunfire is a basic human right | 18:24 |
| Arsanerit | Refugees could go into quarantine though, but it's difficult to implement quarantine fully. Not only are there breaches, but would the people supporting the logistics and physiological needs of the people to be quarantined also thesmelves need to be quarantained? | 18:24 |
| de-facto | well maybe we need to implement strict borders for every independently controlled compartment | 18:24 |
| de-facto | thats what i doubt too | 18:25 |
| Arsanerit | I don't think sufficiently strict land borders are realistically possible. | 18:25 |
| Arsanerit | Even the North/South Korea border has occasional crossers. | 18:25 |
| de-facto | it seems humans are not able to strictly stick to rules, everyone eventually only thinks about the own advantage | 18:26 |
| Arsanerit | Vietnam tried zero covid for a while but people came in undocumented. | 18:26 |
| Arsanerit | You need only one breach out of a million for the whole containment strategy to be useless. | 18:26 |
| Arsanerit | Some humans are able to strictly stick to rules, but never all humans. | 18:27 |
| de-facto | well compartmentalizing population increases the control over outbreak areas without restricting the the other compartments too much | 18:27 |
| de-facto | that means much more resources could be directed towards containing the outbreak in the contaminated compartments | 18:28 |
| LjL | de-facto, if it's in belgium it's obviously too late to stop it by stopping flights from Africa | 18:28 |
| LjL | Belgium is full of land borders | 18:28 |
| LjL | let's be a bit realistic | 18:28 |
| de-facto | because of course logistics of resources could be shared in a safe way (much easier than quarantining humans) | 18:28 |
| de-facto | no that is not true | 18:28 |
| Arsanerit | It's been /shown/ in Belgium, so it's probably present all over the EU already. | 18:28 |
| Arsanerit | What % of lab/PCR tests are screened for variants? | 18:29 |
| de-facto | if there is a case detected in Belgium it does not mean its is already in wide spread community transmission there | 18:29 |
| de-facto | so if the cases all can be connected to recent travel history there may be the possibility to contain them with putting all resources into tracing down all contacts and isolating them | 18:29 |
| Arsanerit | You'd have to impose a hard EU-wide lockdown (a real one, China style) until one has done more screening to be sure. | 18:29 |
| Arsanerit | European nations have not been willing to take such measures in the past and they will not do so now. | 18:30 |
| de-facto | if we always argue to "its too late, lets give up" we would never know if any containment is possible | 18:30 |
| LjL | you're contradicting yourself. you said yesterday that we need to be proactive and not reactive | 18:31 |
| LjL | we haven't been proactive over this | 18:31 |
| LjL | we're barely being reactive | 18:31 |
| LjL | so how do you think that may magically work this time? | 18:31 |
| de-facto | yeah that would be the next step, being proactive, yet as you say for now we barely have been reactive | 18:32 |
| de-facto | proactive would be to prevent further imports and also massively ramp up PCR testing with the appropriate set of primers | 18:33 |
| de-facto | actively searching and hunting down infection chains for this specific variant | 18:33 |
| Arsanerit | Perhaps we can slow down the spread of the new variant but I don't see that it can still be stopped from spreading. | 18:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +13681 cases (now 5.0 million), +51 deaths (now 133537), +557180 tests (now 117.2 million) since a day ago | 18:34 |
| de-facto | it depends on how isolated the imports are | 18:34 |
| de-facto | if its only a small number of imports we may have a realistic chance to trace them down and eradicate this import, if it already entered a phase of community transmission it will be much more of a challenge then | 18:35 |
| Arsanerit | I suspect that if one has been shown, twenty more have not yet been shown. | 18:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 'It Was Entirely Avoidable': Rich Countries Blamed as New Covid Variant Sparks Global Alarm → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2s0xl/it_was_entirely_avoidable_rich_countries_blamed/ | 18:35 |
| de-facto | because community transmission would mean infection new chains randomly get detected by someone testing positive for the new mutant | 18:36 |
| Arsanerit | I do think it's right to ban those flights now. | 18:36 |
| de-facto | as i said it depends if origin of infection can be traced back to recent travel history or contact to someone in a known cluster | 18:36 |
| de-facto | as soon as the source cluster is unknown we would need to assume that community transmission of it started and as you said for every detected case there most likely would be a unknown number of not detected cases | 18:37 |
| Arsanerit | We'll see. | 18:37 |
| de-facto | well one thing we know for sure | 18:38 |
| de-facto | if we dont try containment it most likely will spread as observed in Johannesburg | 18:38 |
| ublx | unless it's been in Joha for a long time and it's rise is (partially) a consequence of the absence of delta? | 18:42 |
| Arsanerit | I do think we should try containment, but I predict it will fail. | 18:43 |
| Arsanerit | It's worth it even if it fails, for even if it fails to fully contain the variant, it will probably delay it. | 18:43 |
| de-facto | if it is much more contagious it would be a totally different pathogen then | 18:45 |
| de-facto | like a completely different class of thread | 18:45 |
| de-facto | *threat | 18:46 |
| * de-facto is not a native speaker | 18:46 | |
| Arsanerit | We'll find out sooner or later. | 18:47 |
| de-facto | yes | 18:48 |
| LjL | <Dredd> Lol Moderna vaccine is called Spikevax now? ← yep, has been for a while, although i can't say it has caught on in conversation | 18:53 |
| Arsanerit | What's the name of the Janssen vaccine? | 18:53 |
| LjL | don't remember | 18:53 |
| LjL | %vax janssen | 18:53 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Ad26 alone or with MVA boost is a Non-replicating viral vector vaccine developed in Belgium + USA by Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) + Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center (Harvard Medical School) + Emergent BioSolutions + Catalent + Sanofi + Merck, which started distribution initially on February 2021 → https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/Janssen | 18:53 |
| Arsanerit | I know Vaxzevria, Comirnaty, Spikevax, Sputnik-V | 18:54 |
| LjL | not sure it has a name since even on https://www.janssen.com/covid19 i see it described as "Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine" | 18:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Science: science: Heavily mutated coronavirus variant puts scientists on alert → https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/r2sibs/heavily_mutated_coronavirus_variant_puts/ | 18:55 |
| LjL | from my github, Johnson&Johnson Janssen (aka Ad26.COV2.S, JNJ-78436735, Ad26COVS1, VAC31518) | 18:55 |
| LjL | but those are scientific names, not commercial | 18:55 |
| Arsanerit | interesting that they didn't give it a brand name | 18:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Maria Van Kerkhove (@mvankerkhove): Following the meeting of the @WHO TAG-VE today, WHO classifies B.1.1.529 as a variant of concern named Omicron.We call for increased surveillance and genetic testing & thank 🇿🇦 for sharing their work in real time. More information can be [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/mvankerkhove/status/1464293032115777536 | 19:04 |
| de-facto | OMICRON | 19:05 |
| Arsanerit | what happened to Nu? | 19:05 |
| Arsanerit | ο | 19:05 |
| de-facto | probably they dont like anyone else them themselves to assign letters, so maybe people talking about Nu before them were thereby preventing them from using Nu? | 19:06 |
| de-facto | (idk just a crude speculation) | 19:06 |
| Arsanerit | People will confuse ο and o. | 19:07 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.who.int/news/item/26-11-2021-classification-of-omicron-(b.1.1.529)-sars-cov-2-variant-of-concern | 19:10 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.who.int: Classification of Omicron (B.1.1.529): SARS-CoV-2 Variant of Concern | 19:10 |
| de-facto | "The B.1.1.529 variant was first reported to WHO from South Africa on 24 November 2021. The epidemiological situation in South Africa has been characterized by three distinct peaks in reported cases, the latest of which was predominantly the Delta variant. In recent weeks, infections have increased steeply, coinciding with the detection of B.1.1.529 variant. The first known confirmed B.1.1.529 infection was from a specimen collected on 9 November | 19:11 |
| de-facto | 2021." | 19:11 |
| de-facto | "This variant has a large number of mutations, some of which are concerning. Preliminary evidence suggests an increased risk of reinfection with this variant, as compared to other VOCs. The number of cases of this variant appears to be increasing in almost all provinces in South Africa." | 19:12 |
| de-facto | "Current SARS-CoV-2 PCR diagnostics continue to detect this variant. Several labs have indicated that for one widely used PCR test, one of the three target genes is not detected (called S gene dropout or S gene target failure) and this test can therefore be used as marker for this variant, pending sequencing confirmation. Using this approach, this variant has been detected at faster rates than previous surges in infection, suggesting that this | 19:12 |
| de-facto | variant may have a growth advantage." | 19:12 |
| de-facto | "Based on the evidence presented indicative of a detrimental change in COVID-19 epidemiology, the TAG-VE has advised WHO that this variant should be designated as a VOC, and the WHO has designated B.1.1.529 as a VOC, named Omicron." | 19:12 |
| de-facto | "As such, countries are asked to do the following:" | 19:13 |
| de-facto | "enhance surveillance and sequencing efforts to better understand circulating SARS-CoV-2 variants." | 19:13 |
| de-facto | "submit complete genome sequences and associated metadata to a publicly available database, such as GISAID." | 19:13 |
| de-facto | "report initial cases/clusters associated with VOC infection to WHO through the IHR mechanism." | 19:13 |
| de-facto | "where capacity exists and in coordination with the international community, perform field investigations and laboratory assessments to improve understanding of the potential impacts of the VOC on COVID-19 epidemiology, severity, effectiveness of public health and social measures, diagnostic methods, immune responses, antibody neutralization, or other relevant characteristics." | 19:13 |
| de-facto | "Individuals are reminded to take measures to reduce their risk of COVID-19, including proven public health and social measures such as wearing well-fitting masks, hand hygiene, physical distancing, improving ventilation of indoor spaces, avoiding crowded spaces, and getting vaccinated." | 19:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): The @WHO has named B.1.1.529 Omicron, a Variant of Concern [O, not Nu) → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1464294799213678596 | 19:14 |
| de-facto | "Preliminary evidence suggests an increased risk of reinfection with this variant" <-- this would be very bad news | 19:16 |
| de-facto | WHO name: Omicron, PANGO-Lineage: B.1.1.529; GISAID-clade: GR/484A; Nextstrain-clade: 21K | 19:19 |
| de-facto | .title https://nextstrain.org/groups/neherlab/ncov/21K | 19:20 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From nextstrain.org: auspice | 19:20 |
| de-facto | .title https://covariants.org/variants/21K | 19:23 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From covariants.org: CoVariants | 19:23 |
| de-facto | .title https://covariants.org/shared-mutations | 19:25 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From covariants.org: CoVariants | 19:25 |
| de-facto | wow | 19:25 |
| de-facto | .title https://cov-lineages.org/lineage.html?lineage=B.1.1.529 | 19:27 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From cov-lineages.org: Cov-Lineages | 19:27 |
| de-facto | .title https://outbreak.info/situation-reports?pango=B.1.1.529 <-- nothing yet, lets revisit later | 19:28 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From outbreak.info: outbreak.info | 19:28 |
| de-facto | https://cov-spectrum.ethz.ch/explore/South%20Africa/AllSamples/AllTimes/variants?pangoLineage=B.1.1.519* | 19:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: WHO designates Covid variant Omicron found in South Africa as ‘of concern’ → https://indianexpress.com/article/world/new-covid-variant-omicron-who-7643609/ | 19:34 |
| de-facto | .title https://cov-spectrum.ethz.ch/explore/South%20Africa/AllSamples/AllTimes/variants?pangoLineage=B.1.1.519* | 19:34 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From cov-spectrum.ethz.ch: covSPECTRUM | 19:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +49800 cases (now 10.1 million), +161 deaths (now 145036) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +79158 cases (now 5.7 million) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +4544 cases (now 986834) since 5 hours ago — Canada: +4336 cases (now 1.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 19:36 |
| de-facto | correction | 19:39 |
| de-facto | .title https://cov-spectrum.ethz.ch/explore/South%20Africa/AllSamples/AllTimes/variants?pangoLineage=B.1.1.529 | 19:39 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From cov-spectrum.ethz.ch: covSPECTRUM | 19:39 |
| joerg | first estimations for R: 500% of Delta | 19:41 |
| joerg | bummer | 19:41 |
| de-facto | based of super small samples, so possibly heavily biased but ... hm yeah | 19:42 |
| joerg | or rather damn scary | 19:42 |
| de-facto | i dont trust those estimates | 19:42 |
| joerg | yeah | 19:42 |
| de-facto | they traced this (cluster?) down so its was not really competing against delta in (averaged out) community transmission | 19:43 |
| joerg | I'll happily learn the actual data is better, I actually hope it will be better | 19:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Tulio de Oliveira (@Tuliodna): I do hope it is time to take a global approach for a global pandemic and stop the nationalism and hatred. It is not the scientists or nations fault if viruses move from animals to humans or if they evolve. Global solidarity for a global problem. → https://twitter.com/Tuliodna/status/1464303232973484038 | 19:43 |
| de-facto | but damn, look at the long list of mutations | 19:44 |
| de-facto | https://covariants.org/shared-mutations | 19:44 |
| joerg | yeah, horror show | 19:44 |
| * joerg hates Omicron already | 19:45 | |
| de-facto | 5x delta reproduction, what would that be? the most contagious virus ever? | 19:45 |
| de-facto | i doubt that this could be accurate | 19:45 |
| joerg | R_0 = 40? quite possible | 19:45 |
| de-facto | i think that would be unrealistic | 19:46 |
| joerg | in two days we'llknow more. For sure we'll know if it elready explodes in Belgium | 19:46 |
| de-facto | measles would have R0 = 18-20 | 19:47 |
| de-facto | correction: measles would have R0 = 12-18 | 19:48 |
| de-facto | so more than double that? that sounds almost impossible | 19:48 |
| de-facto | it would mean that there is not any chance of herd immunity ever | 19:48 |
| joerg | nah, with R_0=40 we'd need an immunization of 98.5% | 19:57 |
| joerg | for herd immunity | 19:57 |
| joerg | unless my math left me | 19:58 |
| de-facto | there is no vaccine with such an efficacy, its impossible | 19:59 |
| de-facto | even if you vaccinated 100.00% | 19:59 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/variants-concern | 19:59 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ecdc.europa.eu: SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern as of 26 November 2021 | 19:59 |
| joerg | well, immunization and herd immunity is not depending on vaccines alone | 20:00 |
| joerg | with vaccines, a herd immunity isn't reachable even with Delta, they told me | 20:01 |
| de-facto | B.1.1.529 got so many mutations that ECDC needs a footnote to put them in their table: A67V, Δ69-70, T95I, G142D, Δ143-145, Δ211-212, ins214EPE, G339D, S371L, S373P, S375F, K417N, N440K, G446S, S477N, T478K, E484A, Q493K, G496S, Q498R, N501Y, Y505H, T547K, D614G, H655Y, N679K, P681H, N764K, D796Y, N856K, Q954H, N969K, L981F | 20:01 |
| de-facto | joerg, yeah | 20:01 |
| joerg | oops, my math left me. 97.5% | 20:02 |
| de-facto | it does not really make any difference, its not possible to contain that with vaccines (if R0 was that high in reality, i doubt it is) | 20:03 |
| * joerg gueses we will get another lockdown next week here in germany, Omicron or not | 20:06 | |
| de-facto | 100k infections next week or the week after that? | 20:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: WHO labels B.1.1.529 Covid strain as 'variant of concern', calls it Omicron → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2u47k/who_labels_b11529_covid_strain_as_variant_of/ | 20:12 |
| de-facto | .title https://twitter.com/EU2021SI/status/1464269958704205841 | 20:13 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From twitter.com: EU2021SI (@EU2021SI): "#COVID19 | ❗️Integrated Political Crisis Response mechanism (#IPCR) met & agreed on the need to activate the #emergency break & impose temporary restriction on all travel into EU from southern #Africa. #EU2021SI called upon Members to test & quarantine all incoming passengers.❗️" | 42l - nitter | 20:13 |
| de-facto | .title https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1464192889618063364 | 20:14 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From twitter.com: European Commission (@EU_Commission): "We are proposing, in close coordination with EU countries, to activate the emergency brake mechanism to stop air travel from the Southern African region due to the new COVID-19 variant of concern B.1.1.529. We are closely following developments regarding this new variant." | nitter | 20:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): The chess approach exemplifies the failure1) we didnt see far enough ahead2) we are only making 1 move for each move by cov23) we only want to mask w/N95 and update infrastructure at "Checkmate" twitter.com/AntibioticDoc/… → https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1464310905429184522 | 20:22 |
| de-facto | yeah we need proactive preventive measures to control outcomes instead of reacting after the fact | 20:24 |
| joerg | meanwhile MP Wuest: >>bla bla bla need to act together, all 17. « Until then, the 50k football game tomorrow is OK in his country. Idiot | 20:33 |
| joerg | I guess we're doomed here in Germany. At least we asked for it, we elected those idiots | 20:35 |
| Arsanerit | Did anyone elect Wüst? | 20:36 |
| joerg | this emergency brake mechanism is already obsolete, we got Omicron in EU, on several places | 20:37 |
| joerg | Arsanerit: good question, but then he's Laschet's successor, no? | 20:37 |
| Arsanerit | I guess the people in Landkreis Borken did. | 20:37 |
| Arsanerit | He's Laschet's successor but never led an election campaign himself afaik, except in his own Landtagswahlkreis | 20:38 |
| joerg | Just he sounds exactly like Laschet. So you can't really complain about him | 20:38 |
| Arsanerit | But it doesn't matter, the incompetence to deal with the pandemic is throughout all the mainstream parties. | 20:38 |
| joerg | yes | 20:39 |
| Arsanerit | Only the AfD would be worse, but fortunately they're kept out of any relevant power. | 20:39 |
| joerg | :nod: | 20:39 |
| Arsanerit | Has Omicron been shown in more than one place in the EU yet? Last I heard was outside Africa it'd been shown in Belgium, Israel, Hong Kong. | 20:40 |
| LjL | so eventually they decided Nu was indeed too silly-sounding? | 20:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID19 Vaccine Tracker: valerie: Altimmune Inc: AdCOVID → https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/75/ | 20:41 |
| Arsanerit | I suppose it would be quite naive to consider that the emergence of variants in Africa (first shown in what might be the only country in Africa to have labs that test for variants at all (?) might mean it merely started "somewhere in Africa"?) should be a wake-up call for proper vaccine distribution to the poorest countries? | 20:42 |
| rpifan | ah so so the variant is now called omicron? | 20:45 |
| rpifan | they finally named it? | 20:45 |
| joerg | Arsanerit: the mere statistical logic demands that Belgium wasn't the first Omicron case to enter EU, just the first that got detected | 20:46 |
| Arsanerit | Oh, enwiki says the first known specimen of Omicron was collected in Botswana. | 20:46 |
| Arsanerit | joerg: I agree that it's probably spread throughout the EU already. | 20:47 |
| Arsanerit | Maybe they didn't want to call any variant Xi for political reasons… | 20:47 |
| joerg | rpifan: ^^^ | 20:50 |
| Arsanerit | And the confirmed positive case in Israel was travelling from Malawi. | 20:50 |
| joerg | will take a few days until the dust settles and we know more details, also about R_0 etc | 20:51 |
| joerg | actually not even the exact conditions and circumstances of the burst in SA are confirmed yet | 20:53 |
| joerg | I keep hearing differing versions | 20:53 |
| Arsanerit | Is any other country in Africa testing enough such that they would even detect a variant if there was one? | 20:53 |
| joerg | prolly not | 20:53 |
| joerg | Scientists didn't think so | 20:54 |
| Arsanerit | So then we should cancel passenger flights from all of africa, not only south africa? | 20:54 |
| joerg | basically yes | 20:55 |
| Arsanerit | Unless we're being fatalist and say that it doesn't matter anymore because everything is going to hell anyway. | 20:55 |
| joerg | though it's probably already pointless | 20:55 |
| Arsanerit | From Egypt to Israel a virus is quite capable of crossing overland too. | 20:55 |
| rpifan | well we should lock down all over again | 20:56 |
| rpifan | but the problem is i dont think there is a solution | 20:56 |
| Arsanerit | didn't the only law that makes that possible just expire? | 20:56 |
| rpifan | unless of course we just let everyone get infected and die | 20:56 |
| Arsanerit | I mean in Germany | 20:56 |
| rpifan | ive no clue whats going on | 20:56 |
| rpifan | especially with the new ampel | 20:57 |
| Arsanerit | "geimpft, genesen, oder gestorben"? | 20:57 |
| Arsanerit | When is the ampel taking power? | 20:57 |
| Arsanerit | who is the new bundesgesundheitsminister? | 20:57 |
| rpifan | for now its still spahn | 20:58 |
| rpifan | gestorben nice | 20:58 |
| rpifan | i hadnt heard that one | 20:58 |
| rpifan | well im still genesen | 20:58 |
| rpifan | but this new variant concernes me | 20:58 |
| Arsanerit | I'm geimpft, afaik I'm not genesen. | 20:58 |
| Arsanerit | can you get a booster? | 20:58 |
| rpifan | yea i will have to before january | 20:59 |
| Arsanerit | I've never been to anywhere where 2G is required, because those are all optional places we probably shouldn't be visiting in the first place right now. | 20:59 |
| joerg | oh, apropos: booster side effects finally tapered down after 48h | 20:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: U.S. will begin new travel restrictions amid concerns over a new coronavirus variant: The policy will affect South Africa and seven other countries, senior administration officials said. The World Health Organization expressed concern [... want %more?] → https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/11/26/1059339865/coronavirus-variant-covid-omicron-travel-bans | 21:01 |
| rpifan | well i was really hoping for novavax | 21:02 |
| Arsanerit | is that the nasal one? | 21:02 |
| rpifan | idk | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Merck's COVID-19 pill significantly less effective in new analysis → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2vsw4/mercks_covid19_pill_significantly_less_effective/ | 21:29 |
| TurboTech | Good afternoon | 21:37 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: At 2021-11-19 19:50:48 UTC, de-facto told you: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00663-3 | 21:37 |
| TurboTech | de-fact thank you for the link | 21:37 |
| TurboTech | I read it when it was released. There was some good things about it, but there were some bad things about it. | 21:38 |
| TurboTech | There is a lot of horse play going on. | 21:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: France has postponed implementing a COVID-19 vaccination mandate for health workers in Martinique and Guadeloupe after the measure spurred widespread protests on the French territories in which police officers were injured and journalists attacked → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/r2vy2t/france_has_postponed_implementing_a_covid19/ | 21:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +34438 cases (now 7.7 million), +60 deaths (now 119818) since 11 hours ago — Spain: +9912 cases (now 5.1 million), +24 deaths (now 87955) since 23 hours ago | 21:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Artyom Korenevsky (@ArtKorenevsky): @micah_arsham @WLTSchirano @JuliaRaifman @COVIDpolicies @mtosterholm @AmanpourCoPBS @CIDRAP @weparmet @DrTomori @WalterIsaacson *sigh* you think Leonardi is humble? He's not an immunologist either. → https://twitter.com/ArtKorenevsky/status/1464330571119800333 | 21:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): As Delta and Omicron take a stranglehold with substantial sera escape, you need even more mindful of air quality in the places you enter and your N95+@ariccio made this system that shows CO2 levels in public places near youReally [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1464336123732402178 | 21:58 |
| lastshell | omicron persei 8 | 22:03 |
| L01010001 | hi | 22:09 |
| L01010001 | Does anyone want to talk ? | 22:10 |
| lastshell | hi L0101001 | 22:10 |
| L01010001 | hi lastshell | 22:11 |
| lastshell | are you ok or having questions about covid/vaxxines ? | 22:11 |
| L01010001 | I'm fine thanks... I'm only curious about this channel | 22:12 |
| lastshell | Here is some git repo that the moderators use over here https://github.com/ljl-covid/links | 22:13 |
| TurboTech | So what's going on. | 22:15 |
| lastshell | I just learn about the omicron variant a few minutes ago | 22:20 |
| Arsanerit | stay safe | 22:21 |
| lastshell | if we had a 2 weeks global lockdown | 22:23 |
| lastshell | but will be impossible to do it | 22:23 |
| Arsanerit | worldwide? Will never happen. | 22:23 |
| TurboTech | That is crazy | 22:23 |
| lastshell | yeah, i know | 22:24 |
| TurboTech | Maybe the earth is trying to tell us we have too many people on it. | 22:24 |
| L01010001 | Maybe, this is the solution about world overpopulation... | 22:25 |
| Arsanerit | covid doesn't kill nearly enough to bring a dent in world overpopulation | 22:25 |
| lastshell | just close to 8 Billions | 22:25 |
| Arsanerit | and it kills almost nobody of fertile age | 22:25 |
| Arsanerit | except a few who are sick already | 22:25 |
| Arsanerit | It might cause lifelong disabilies in some, but nothing that prevents them from reproducing | 22:26 |
| sdfgsdfg | we named the new variant of concern ?? | 22:26 |
| lastshell | omicron persei 8 | 22:26 |
| sdfgsdfg | that's incredible news Im' excited for some reason :D | 22:26 |
| TurboTech | My personal belief through my research is that we may have inadvertantly set ourselves up. | 22:26 |
| Arsanerit | they didn't dare to call it Xi ;-) | 22:26 |
| sdfgsdfg | I wish they livestreamed while they named it | 22:26 |
| sdfgsdfg | its like christmas | 22:26 |
| Arsanerit | TurboTech: Did you publish your research in peer reviewed scientific literature? | 22:26 |
| TurboTech | Nope | 22:26 |
| sdfgsdfg | also whoever is making the W.H.O announcements... that's one hot lady | 22:27 |
| lastshell | focus on the important stuff | 22:27 |
| sdfgsdfg | I can't. Dr Maria Van Kerkhuf is ... | 22:28 |
| sdfgsdfg | ok ok | 22:28 |
| lastshell | https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1464295764809637898 | 22:28 |
| L01010001 | Do any of you believe that covid will disappear by 2023? | 22:31 |
| TurboTech | No | 22:31 |
| lastshell | it will no disappear | 22:31 |
| TurboTech | title. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21461-4 | 22:31 |
| lastshell | see the spanish flu is common cold afik | 22:31 |
| TurboTech | .title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21461-4 | 22:31 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: From www.nature.com: Fructose reprogrammes glutamine-dependent oxidative metabolism to support LPS-induced inflammation | Nature Communications | 22:31 |
| sdfgsdfg | lady's talking about good ventilation | 22:31 |
| sdfgsdfg | it's 2022 | 22:31 |
| sdfgsdfg | lmao | 22:31 |
| TurboTech | .title https://www.mdbiosciences.com/newsevents/news-archives/lps-induced-lung-injury-and-fibrosis-models-for-covid-19-therapeutic-developments | 22:32 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: From www.mdbiosciences.com: LPS-induced Lung Injury and Fibrosis Models for COVID-19 Therapeutic Developments | 22:32 |
| Arsanerit | It's not 2022. | 22:32 |
| lastshell | pretty much is 2022 | 22:32 |
| sdfgsdfg | you know what we mean its almost 2022 and lady of W.H.O talks about good ventilation | 22:32 |
| Arsanerit | Is that in contradiction? | 22:33 |
| Arsanerit | In the past houses were built so crappily that they were well-ventilated whether you wanted it or not. | 22:33 |
| sdfgsdfg | this thing moves faster than almost light speed now | 22:33 |
| sdfgsdfg | you can ventilate your room all you want lol | 22:33 |
| TurboTech | Only because the media conveys it. | 22:33 |
| TurboTech | it is interesting that they saw this coming in 2016 | 22:34 |
| lastshell | where I am even with mask mandates is common to see people without masks in the stores indoors | 22:34 |
| sdfgsdfg | they saw it coming in 2016 ? how | 22:34 |
| Arsanerit | I haven't seen anyone without masks in stores, but I see people ignoring the mandate, or interpreting it VERY liberally, on the train. | 22:35 |
| TurboTech | .title https://www.pnas.org/content/113/11/3048 | 22:35 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: From www.pnas.org: SARS-like WIV1-CoV poised for human emergence | PNAS | 22:35 |
| lastshell | Where are you located Arsanerit ? | 22:35 |
| Arsanerit | lastshell: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. | 22:35 |
| lastshell | I see, I hear Germany is getting hit hard right now | 22:36 |
| Arsanerit | On the ICE, someone putting a sandwich or a water bottle in front of them, then think they don't need a mask because "they're eating/drinking". | 22:36 |
| sdfgsdfg | yeah getting pounded quite hard | 22:36 |
| sdfgsdfg | europe is* | 22:36 |
| Arsanerit | Yes, Germany is bad right now. | 22:36 |
| TurboTech | Our numbers here in Texas have been going down and we have been running business as usual. | 22:36 |
| TurboTech | Schools have been in full scale this entire year. | 22:36 |
| Arsanerit | Not as bad as Netherlands or Austria | 22:36 |
| Arsanerit | TurboTech: are vaccines mandatory for schoolkids in Texas? | 22:37 |
| TurboTech | No | 22:37 |
| lastshell | TurboTech does Texas got hit by Delta ? | 22:37 |
| TurboTech | Yes | 22:37 |
| Arsanerit | German cases have even overtaken the UK now | 22:37 |
| sdfgsdfg | delta drove other strains to almost extinction I think | 22:37 |
| TurboTech | We had high numbers of cases. The highest in the country. But the north is about to make Texas look like a Charity event. | 22:38 |
| sdfgsdfg | and now that we have omicron | 22:38 |
| sdfgsdfg | can we just shortly call it omi ? | 22:38 |
| sdfgsdfg | or om | 22:38 |
| sdfgsdfg | looking forward to transmissibility of omi | 22:38 |
| TurboTech | Check out the Conclusion of this Study. | 22:38 |
| TurboTech | Or the significance from 2016 | 22:39 |
| TurboTech | "The emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)-CoV highlights the continued risk of cross-species transmission leading to epidemic disease. This manuscript describes efforts to extend surveillance beyond sequence analysis, constructing chimeric and full-length zoonotic coronaviruses to evaluate emergence potential. Focusing on SARS-like virus sequences isolated | 22:39 |
| TurboTech | om Chinese horseshoe bats, the results indicate a significant threat posed by WIV1-CoV. Both full-length and chimeric WIV1-CoV readily replicated efficiently in human airway cultures and in vivo, suggesting capability of direct transmission to humans. In addition, while monoclonal antibody treatments prove effective, the SARS-based vaccine approach failed to confer protection. Together, the study indicates an ongoing threat posed by | 22:39 |
| TurboTech | IV1-related viruses and the need for continued study and surveillance. | 22:39 |
| lastshell | can you lower down for mortals ? means the vaccines could be no effective if IV1-related ? | 22:40 |
| TurboTech | If they new about monoclonal Antibodies and it's ability to go right to humans, how come everyone was taken by surprise in late 2018 | 22:40 |
| TurboTech | 2019 | 22:40 |
| sdfgsdfg | I guess it started with an initial mutation | 22:41 |
| sdfgsdfg | there must have been a big gap, a jump to alpha | 22:41 |
| Arsanerit | looks like Texas peaked in September | 22:41 |
| sdfgsdfg | I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm gone shopping. Ciao | 22:41 |
| TurboTech | Yes. Now most of the people have had it and the rest have been vacinated. | 22:41 |
| TurboTech | There will be problems up North. | 22:42 |
| lastshell | because the indoor gathering ? | 22:42 |
| TurboTech | it is part of it. Staying inside is the last thing to do, but it is winter. You know my thoughts on Vitamin D Levels and Antioxidants and proper nutrition. | 22:43 |
| TurboTech | You saw the two studies I posted regarding the LPS | 22:44 |
| lastshell | yeah | 22:44 |
| lastshell | TurboTech what level of vitamin d you recommend to have ? | 22:44 |
| lastshell | 35 is fine ? | 22:45 |
| TurboTech | If fructose has the ability to stimulate inflammation in the LPS and pretty much the rest of the body and upregulate NLRP3 inflammasome and Covid does something similar than we have a problem there no? | 22:45 |
| TurboTech | No | 22:45 |
| TurboTech | 35 is not high enough in my opinion and that would be ng/mL. | 22:46 |
| lastshell | so what will be the ok number in ng/ml ? | 22:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Marc Veldhoen (@Marc_Veld): South- Africa Health minister; There is no evidence that the Nu variant evades the currently used vaccines.twitter.com/Reuters/status… → https://twitter.com/Marc_Veld/status/1464349097691856896 | 22:46 |
| TurboTech | According to studies 40-60 ng/mL are true normal physiological levels. | 22:47 |
| TurboTech | Our instrument reagent insert says 30-100 ng/mL | 22:47 |
| TurboTech | But why is it important? | 22:48 |
| lastshell | I mean mom and I we are vaxxed but she had low levels of D before | 22:48 |
| lastshell | now she is 35 | 22:48 |
| TurboTech | How much is she taking. | 22:48 |
| lastshell | she is taking 5000 IU almost daily | 22:48 |
| lastshell | what dosis will be better ? | 22:49 |
| TurboTech | have it checked again in March. | 22:49 |
| lastshell | ok | 22:49 |
| L01010001 | bye | 22:49 |
| TurboTech | I took 5000 iu daily starting last march and my level hit a hi in August of 59 ng/mL. On the same dosage my level by November was 48 That is an 18% decrease. That shows you how impactful the summer sun is. | 22:50 |
| lastshell | wow | 22:50 |
| lastshell | I see an north areas will be very dark | 22:50 |
| lastshell | I was living in Seattle | 22:50 |
| lastshell | always raining and no sunshine | 22:50 |
| TurboTech | I am going to maintain this dosage and retest in march. I would bet that my level is closer to 20. | 22:51 |
| TurboTech | I do have normal liver function so my body should be producing normal amounts of carrier protein known as Vitamin d Binding protein. | 22:51 |
| TurboTech | I think for me technically 5000 iu daily in summer and alternating 5000 one day and 10,000 the next might keep the levels normal in winter. | 22:53 |
| lastshell | ok | 22:53 |
| TurboTech | No one on our shift got sick in my lab. We are vaccinatted, but everyone in my co workers house had it and he did not distance himself from it and none of us got it. | 22:54 |
| TurboTech | My wife works in a prodominantly black school as a teacher. She has not come down with it either. | 22:54 |
| lastshell | ok | 22:55 |
| lastshell | I maybe increase the vitamind D levels | 22:55 |
| TurboTech | But it is much bigger that just a hormone/Vitamin | 22:55 |
| lastshell | just to be safe | 22:55 |
| TurboTech | Oh we are all on Vitamin D. | 22:55 |
| TurboTech | We all have 50 levels. | 22:56 |
| TurboTech | Look up foods that can reduce NLRP3 inflammasome. | 22:57 |
| lastshell | thank you so much TurboTech | 22:58 |
| sdfgsdfg | wtf is the Nu variant ? | 23:01 |
| TurboTech | I do not know if you are going to be able to see this. | 23:01 |
| TurboTech | https://www.facebook.com/john.lambiase.98/posts/10222777273914054 | 23:01 |
| sdfgsdfg | are nu and omicron related ? | 23:01 |
| de-facto | sdfgsdfg, its the Omicron variant | 23:01 |
| sdfgsdfg | why does it have multiple names | 23:01 |
| de-facto | it does not | 23:01 |
| Arsanerit | there is no Nu variant | 23:01 |
| Arsanerit | They skipped Nu and Xi | 23:01 |
| TurboTech | That facebook page was posted by me. | 23:01 |
| sdfgsdfg | this is confusing :( | 23:01 |
| sdfgsdfg | Xi for obvious reasons hahaha | 23:02 |
| sdfgsdfg | otherwise people would call it the communist variant | 23:02 |
| de-facto | they speculated on WHO naming it Nu but and already talked about it using that name, yet then WHO decided to call it omicron instead (WHO never spoke about nu) | 23:02 |
| TurboTech | I guess you can not see it if you do not have facebook. | 23:03 |
| genera | the nue who | 23:03 |
| TurboTech | I thought epsilon was the next letter | 23:03 |
| de-facto | that one already was asigned | 23:04 |
| genera | opalion | 23:04 |
| TurboTech | When we run out of greek letters are we going to move to names of Hurricanes? | 23:04 |
| de-facto | we already have PANGO lineages | 23:04 |
| de-facto | so its the B.1.1.529 VoC | 23:05 |
| sdfgsdfg | they could be named after carebears | 23:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Trevor Bedford (@trvrb): This causes a straight forward genome frequencies analysis to overestimate rate of spread of Omicron. Instead I'd focus on rapid increase in proportion of S dropout tests in Gauteng as well as other provinces in South Africa (screen grab from [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1464353251147481089 | 23:05 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4XMueP1zQ | 23:08 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.youtube.com: WATCH LIVE | Urgent briefing on latest developments around the Covid-19 vaccination programme - YouTube | 23:08 |
| TurboTech | Thank you for that study Defacto | 23:08 |
| de-facto | i just thought its quite interesting that it changes the spectrum of immune cells participating in inflammation that much | 23:12 |
| de-facto | .title https://africacdc.org/news-item/africa-centres-for-disease-control-and-preventions-statement-regarding-the-new-sars-cov-2-virus-variant-b-1-1-529/ | 23:14 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From africacdc.org: Africa Centres for Disease Control and Prevention’s Statement regarding the new SARS-COV-2 virus variant B.1.1.529 – Africa CDC | 23:14 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.nicd.ac.za/new-covid-19-variant-detected-in-south-africa/ | 23:15 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.nicd.ac.za: New COVID-19 variant detected in South Africa - NICD | 23:15 |
| TurboTech | For the record. I made two air purifiers from two standard box fans. | 23:16 |
| TurboTech | Each one had a 2 inch MERV 12 filter on it. | 23:17 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.krisp.org.za/ngs-sa/ngs-sa_updates_covid-19_analysis_narratives_reports/token/38 | 23:20 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.krisp.org.za: NGS-SA: Network for Genomic Surveillance South Africa | 23:20 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.krisp.org.za/manuscripts/25Nov2021_B.1.1.529_Media.pdf | 23:21 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.krisp.org.za: 25Nov2021_B.1.1.529_Media | 23:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Eric Topol (@EricTopol): From Omicron's sequence, there's a lot of antigenic drift, posing the threat of evading our immune response. Good that vaccine companies are gearing up for it. But we ought to be pressing hard for a pan-sarbecovirus vaccine that would target *all* variants [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1464358283452444674 | 23:24 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/news/covid-19-increased-gauteng-cases-driven-by-cluster-outbreak-among-students-20211123 | 23:26 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.news24.com: Covid-19: Increased Gauteng cases driven by cluster outbreak among students | News24 | 23:26 |
| de-facto | .title https://twitter.com/CityTshwane/status/1462731644792680449 | 23:28 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, the URL could not be loaded | 23:28 |
| de-facto | "[MEDIA STATEMENT] City of Tshwane records a sharp increase in COVID-19 infections with active cases reaching the 1 600 mark." | 23:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +49522 cases (now 10.1 million) since 20 hours ago — Netherlands: +21344 cases (now 2.6 million) since 22 hours ago | 23:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Anthony J Leonardi, PhD, MS (@fitterhappierAJ): I'll be straight with you. Omicron is Cov2.0It's putting unvaccinated and vaccinated (less often) people in the hospitalIt's evolved as hell. Call it Sars cov 3 h/t @georgimarinov I won't even be madDitch the cloth mask and wear [... want %more?] → https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1464360568064725004 | 23:34 |
| de-facto | we need to watch "South Africa" in https://ibz-shiny.ethz.ch/covid-19-re-international/ | 23:35 |
| de-facto | they show a reproduction number on there | 23:36 |
| TurboTech | Guys lets run an experiment. Get off as much added suger as possible. | 23:36 |
| lastshell | sugar from fruits is ok (natural) TurboTech ? | 23:36 |
| TurboTech | It is ok since the fruits have antioxidants. | 23:37 |
| TurboTech | Antioxidants have the ability to downregulate NLRP3 inflammsome. | 23:37 |
| TurboTech | I do not underrstand why Medicine is not telling people this. | 23:37 |
| TurboTech | 30 years ago they should have been telling people this. | 23:38 |
| de-facto | also we should watch Gauteng on their report at https://www.sacmcepidemicexplorer.co.za/ | 23:38 |
| TurboTech | long term sugar use injures you vascular endothelium and reprograms your monocyte on a course toward inflammation. | 23:39 |
| TurboTech | Why should we help Sars CoV-2 virus | 23:39 |
| lastshell | I drop soda cans since last year | 23:39 |
| TurboTech | Well how many people are drinking powerade or gatoraid thinking its a healthfood | 23:40 |
| lastshell | damn | 23:40 |
| lastshell | water or green juices | 23:40 |
| TurboTech | This shit is in everything | 23:40 |
| de-facto | also the testing numbers from https://www.nicd.ac.za/diseases-a-z-index/disease-index-covid-19/surveillance-reports/weekly-testing-summary/ at https://www.nicd.ac.za/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/COVID-19-Testing-Summary-Week-46-2021.pdf | 23:40 |
| TurboTech | Hell even ensure is loaded with it. | 23:40 |
| lastshell | yeah sugar is poison | 23:40 |
| TurboTech | .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28326454/ | 23:41 |
| Brainstorm | TurboTech: From pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Quercetin and Ascorbic Acid Suppress Fructose-Induced NLRP3 Inflammasome Activation by Blocking Intracellular Shuttling of TXNIP in Human Macrophage Cell Lines - PubMed | 23:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from COVID on Twitter: Michael Lin, PhD-MD 🧬 (@michaelzlin): If this gets approved, my first question when I have to meet with strangers isn't going to be "are you vaccinated?" It's going to be, "you're haven't taken molnupiravir recently, have you?" → https://twitter.com/michaelzlin/status/1464363330613698568 | 23:44 |
| TurboTech | Sure, was he paid by Merck? | 23:45 |
| TurboTech | So, if the spike protein in the virus and the Vaccine really does have the ability to get into the nucleus of cells altering the BRACA1 gene then long term we are in trouble. | 23:46 |
| TurboTech | the BRACA1 gene is known as the overseer gene that is responsible for upregulating DNA repair. | 23:47 |
| de-facto | .title https://twitter.com/Tuliodna | 23:49 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, the URL could not be loaded | 23:49 |
| de-facto | "Tulio de Oliveira @Tuliodna Director of CERI: Centre for Epidemic Response & innovation, South Africa " | 23:50 |
| TurboTech | It will be interesting to see if this new variant can wreak havoc on those around the equator in Africa | 23:51 |
| de-facto | its conveniently spread via business class airtraveling, hence we are direct neighbors to SA | 23:52 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
